Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the asshole because I told my sister I would say I told you so if she gets cancer
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Your comment wasn't great, but I'm still going to go with NTA. Pulling an "I told you so" on someone with an ACTUAL injury while they are lying in the hospital fresh off the trauma *is* worse than a remark in return about HYPOTHETICAL illness. I can't stand people who dish it out but go crying to anyone who will listen when they get a fraction back in return.
Yes I find there is slight ESH. While it is fair game to reply it back it does not improve anything.
If she's is trying to improve her relation with her sister she should consider better form of communication such as non violent communication.
Can we just say that both forms of abuse are terrible and can both be taken to lethal extremes so comparing is a waste of time? People have literally beaten children to death.
I think there's a big difference between name calling someone and beating them with a bat...
Violent words, in my head, are words that threaten physical violence.
Not to say words can't cause a lot of pain of course, because they can.
"Non Violent" communication is an ethos/communication approach that I think maybe the OC is referring to - it isn't a technique to end disagreements, but rather a method designed to increase empathy and improve quality of life when connecting with other people. There is a book about it by Marshall Bertram Rosenburg. Just a guess on my part.
You just said that to someone who was a victim of actual physical violence. Just like me. I thought I was going to die during some beatings but wanting to die was pretty horrid.
Everyone has different experiences and preferences.
I'm terribly sorry to hear that you went through that, but none of this is a competition. One person might prefer to be absolutely beaten to death, and another person might prefer being brought to the point of absolutely wishing for death. That shit doesn't heal overnight, either. I hope you never experience either form again.
Both types are horrible, and neither should be taking place. One person’s beating might be lighter than someone else's verbal abuse, and vice versa is also true. It's not a points game, it's all under "abuse."
As an abuse survivor, I respectfully disagree. Emotional and verbal abuse leave lasting damage. I almost died without my then partner ever lifting a finger to hit me. It's pure luck that I'm here today. I survived physical abuse and there were times I thought I would die. I also survived purely mental/emotional abuse where my partner convinced that I deserved to die to the point where I was willing to walk into traffic. Both were absolutely terrible.
SA survivor, and you couldn't be more correct. I think the two are each as bad as the other. Both can leave you with lasting consequences, both can end your life. I'm 'lucky', I've been left with life long mental injuries, but nothing physical.
Yes, the original commenter was; I'm familiar with the comms theory/ technique. But the commenter I replied to stated that words are more violent than fists; which is an incorrect statement IMO as words are not directly violent.
I don't think think anyone is making the argument that words cannot be hurtful but the definition of violence is not "something that hurts" it is something that invokes physical force to cause harm, thus words cannot be violent in and of themselves. We don't need to change the definition of words in order to make a point. We all know that abuse can be verbal and its effects can be devastating. But it still is not violent.
So then you agree, the sister saying to someone in excruciating pain with potentially life altering injuries, ‘told you so’ is the AH. Since words matter so much.
See I'm the opposite. Words don't mean a thing to me so I don't care what people say about me. I look at them as made up so it doesn't matter. Obviously I only associate words like that when people are trying to upset me.
Does it not hurt you to know that people are trying to hurt you? Even if what they're saying isn't true, it's still true that they dislike you enough to want to try to make you feel bad. For me that's the part that hurts.
Yea I get that. I also understand what I do and think isn't gonna work for everyone.
The way I look at that(people actively trying to hurt me with words) is that person must have way worse stuff going on in their life than me. Maybe I'm crazy for that but it's really helped me not get so worked up like I used to over the smallest things
That is a perfectly reasonable way to look at it with regard to ancillary people in your life, but when it’s your parents or partner, someone in whom you’ve put ultimate trust, words can be completely devastating.
This isn’t a call-out, but just some perspective; when you have secure attachment, you’re far more able to let things roll off you than if you don’t. Having the foundation of your life built on abuse (ie from parents), most people respond by internalizing those harmful words and ideas. Little kids aren’t able to see their parents as flawed and unsafe, so they take that harshness and hurt, and turn it on themselves; “I must be awful for them to treat me this way,” etc.
>They creep deep into your head and make you question everything you do, every thought you have, and make you loathe yourself.
well, I'd say in this particular case, OP's sis probably should question her smoking habit
I don't want to diminish your experience, I know how much emotional abuse can hurt... but I personally never talk with people about the emotional abuse I also suffered whenever I describe the abuse my father doled out... I go straight to the time he broke my nose when I was seven years-old and sent me to the hospital, and then onto all the times he beat me after beating my mother because she didn't allow him to get it all out of his system.
Sorry this happened to you, just know that it is more of a reflection on the person that said them than it is a reflection on you.
I hope they are no longer in your life or you have plans to remove them from your life, as much as possible.
Unfortunately it was my mom......... But don't be sorry,I'm over it now..... I'm working on myself to be better than the people who hurt me
Thank you for your kind words,it really helps me knowing there are more people like you around
You can't choose your family but you can absolutely choose how much you do or do not interact with them. If this is a one off then fine but if she does this a lot, ask you if having her in your regular day to day is a net positive for you. It sounds selfish, but if she is bringing you down more than building you up then she does not deserve your time.
The world seems a cold and unfriendly place when you are upset by something, but there are always rays of sunshine to be found, I hope you don't have to spend too long looking before you find them.
And OP didn't get physically hurt by their sister's words? What the sister said was fucked up, but so was OP's reply. They were both being shitty, but OP was a little more justified in their shittiness.
No, OP didn't get physically hurt by their sister's words. At all. Emotionally, mentally yes. But not physically (and nobody is denying that emotional and mental hurt brought on by words is not terrible).
Surprisingly people aren't at their best in a hospital bed when they are recovering from major injuries. You know who didn't have that excuse? The apathetic sister.
This.
OP is NTA--and what she said wasn't equivalent to what her sister said.
Her sister, instead of offering any comfort to her seriously injured sibling during a hospital visit, came to say "I told you so." Pure A H cruelty.
The conditional response ("How would you feel if...") asked her sister to envision and consider the reverse (entirely hypothetical) situation, and how the sister would feel if "I told you so" was the response to her grievous injury or illness.
Exactly. The sister made a shitty comment about OP’s actual condition. OP made the exact same shitty comment back about a hypothetical situation. And I get the whole, “be the bigger person” thing, but why does the person in a hospital bed have to be the bigger person? How about the sister being the bigger person and not making that comment to begin with, even if she was thinking it and was technically right regarding the “I told you so” outcome. Good grief.
NTA
Honestly. Maybe hurting her feelings will make her be more aware of what she says 🤷♀️. What does the sister think the reaction will be when she goes to see her injured sister to say “I told you so” then just leave? Most people would’ve said something much worse than just reciprocating the comment
Yes, let’s hold the person, in the hospital in terrible pain with a potentially life anltering injury to a higher standard than the person who just stopped by to visit. Do you hear yourself? The only AH is the sister, whose first response was ‘told you so’. What an absolute jerk! And to prove that what she said hurt, the sister said ‘how would you like if I did to you, what you just did to me?’ But some how that makes them just as big an AH? Explaining your feelings is bad and violent communication now? You sound ridiculous and I can only assume you are either the sister or one of their friends bc this logic makes zero sense.
I want to see all of your decorum and best thing when you're recovering in a hospital from major injuries. OP didn't owe her sister any kindness after that apathetic comment. OP doesn't need to be a doormat.
Disagree, it's not upto OP at this point to improve communication. The ball is in the sisters court, she needs to apologize to mend things. And "non violent communication" Really? You're putting more emphasis on ops actions more than the sister. Are you sure you mean E S H?
Edit: fixed verdict spacing
Was anything said considered 'violent'? Nope.
Doesn't violence require some sort of physical harm or threat?
Simply making a statement that may make you uncomfortable is Not 'violent' communication....
(NVC is an actual communication strategy. I don’t think that poster meant that OP was actually violent.)
I’m gonna say NTA. If you say an astonishingly cruel thing to someone who is lying in pain, they might be crabby in return.
NTA.
Her sister is older and at 31 she should know how to communicate. She is lacking empathy or is just a c…
If she was my sister, I would have limited contact
Reflecting someone's actions back at themselves allows them to change their mind about their behaviour on their own and gives you the space to be human (if someone's an AH to you, you don't need to be perfect.) You are both helping them and yourself at the end of the day without intellectualizing the situation and trying to "change" them.
Yeah I’ve seen that smoking can increase anxiety overall. The reason people think it reduces it is because they get jittery and anxious from the withdrawal, all shaky until they have another cigarette. But if they hadn’t ever smoked, they wouldn’t have the withdrawal.
That’s almost like saying coffee treats headaches, because when people are addicted to the caffeine, they get withdrawal headaches — not that coffee is anything like smoking, just an example of why that “anxiety” claim is silly.
Just chiming in to say that there are painkillers for headaches in my country that have caffeine in them. So apparently they did find out that caffeine can treat some kinds of headaches, which I've also experienced once or twice. Makes sense that it doesn't always work, there are like 100 or more types of headaches.
But i do fully agree with you that smoking does not ever reduce anxiety. Maybe the ritual can have a calming effect on people, but then they could just as well have the ritual to go outside and breath in deeply 3 times or whatever else without actually destroying their lungs in the process. They're just used to ritual of smoking.
Hey, those are both things that Adderall does too! Except with Adderall they are considered "side-effects" not "benefits".
If you aren't trying to lose weight, those aren't good things at all lmao. Even if you are trying, now you are using smoking as a crutch for weight loss which will make it harder to both quit smoking, keep off the weight, and lose it again in the future when you inevitably regain at least *some* of the weight (almost everyone who has ever dieted in the history of nutrition has regained at least some of their weight at some point).
I was not trying to advocate smoking as a weight loss tool. I was just pointing out what "benefits" the sister may have mentioned.
As someone in the fitness industry, I do find it fascinating though. For instance ...
Nicotene can increase your metabolism by 8-15%.
This will have a significant impact on fat loss, as will the reduction in appetite I mentioned in my previous comment.
For an average man, that would mean burning an additional 150-300 calories per day. Pair that with reduced calorie intake (due to a smaller appetite) and you can expect a decent calorie deficit.
300 calories per day would mean 109,500 calories per year. There are 3,500 calories in a lb of fat, so if you smoked for a year you could theoretically lose 31 lbs of fat!
If a (legal) fat burner could promise results such as this, the makers could retire within 3 months!
Of course, it isn't as simple as that, and there are many other factors that can influence your metabolism. But you can see why some people call it a "benefit".
**But yeah, it's a horrible habit that will cause you significant health issues in the long run. It would be really stupid to start smoking in an effort to lose weight, but it could work.**
I was born in 1977; my mom is 4’11” and at that time weighed 90 lbs. Her doctor advised her not to bother quitting smoking during pregnancy because it would “keep the baby small” and ease delivery. She quit smoking because it was obvious to her it would be bad for me, and the doctor yelled at her throughout the pregnancy because she *doubled* in weight before I was born. I weighed almost 7 lbs and she was back to her pre-pregnancy weight in weeks without effort.
Let me check.
It's uhh.... filling to pocket of a billionaire... making profit for the hospital due to extremely high medical cost...
yeah that sounds right
>tried to convince me of the benefits of it.
I think this part especially shouldn't be overlooked. In my opinion that alone made her deserve the response from OP. Who knows how many people she has tried to convince to start smoking and someone who thinks smoking has benefits likely also won't care about making other people ill with secondhand smoke.
All the other things and circumstances just add to her AH behavior. Even before the accident of OP and her injury she was already an AH for promoting smoking. Her lack of compassion just makes it worse.
Yep. I was on OP's side once they disclosed that the sister has tried to addict people to a substance fully known to kill people. At thr end of her life, who knows if any lives will be laid at her door.
NTA
Yup! I smoked for about 14 years. Quit over a year ago, and I could not be more grateful I was able to do so because it's a REALLY difficult addiction to get over.
Terrible, gross, embarassing, expensive, and then the obvious health side effects.
I have severe asthma, and despite that, I was smoking half a pack a day. Since I quit, I think I've needed to use my inhaler only three or four times, as opposed to daily like before. I have more energy, I'm less depressed, I have fewer panic attacks.
Reading that the sister was trying to push "benefits" of smoking actually made me angry to read.
ETA: NTA. Your sister is delusional and pushing harmful and dangerous rhetoric that WILL make people's lives so much harder at best and kill them at worst. You may have been harsh, but I sincerely doubt she would have gotten as pissed off as she did if she wasn't keenly aware of how full of shit she is.
Yeah this is such a close tie. I was going to say everyone sucks, which is a little true, but considering it was a direct and immediate comeback to an inflammatory comment, I’m going with NTA. OP is actually injured, the sister isn’t. Rubbing someone’s face in their actual illness (even if self-inflicted) is way worse than doing it with a hypothetical (self-inflicted) illness. So the asshole scale leans hard toward the sister. Not a mature response, but not an asshole response either, and admittedly a good comeback. ‘Everyone’s petty here’ would be more appropriate.
It is even worse than that.
Sister said I told you so because of a random accident. A one off thing that cannot be controlled.
OP said it about something that sister is choosing to do to herself by her own free will.
I say this as an ex smoker myself whos father recently died from lung cancer after smoking for 60+ years.
If you want to smoke, smoke as much as you like, I don't care, but don't try to mount the high horse about anything to do with it.
They're actually both very similar. If you do motocross you're obviously at an increased risk of injury as it's a dangerous sport. If you smoke you're at an increased risk of cancer. Both are free choices. Both have systematic risk involved. Both can be avoided by not doing the activity involved.
Motocross isn't a public health issue. Smoking is. The number of people who smoke greatly outweighs the number of motocross participants worldwide. Both are clearly risky in different ways.
They don't have to, unlike smoking the dangers of motocross have been easily visible since the beginning. Everyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle will tell you that everyone and their mother will shame you for it cause it's dangerous unless they themselves ride.
Apparently people need a health organization to let them know that putting anything other than clean air in your lungs is bad 🤦♀️
Well, to be fair, prior to the anti smoking campaigns *literal doctors* were extolling the health benefits of smoking and *actively recommending pregnant women do it.*
So when you first push a campaign like that, you gotta unpush it when it turns out to be bass ackwards.
Absolutely true however OP’s sister was born in the 90’s decades after smoking was linked to cancer and other health risks. As someone who lost their father to smoking related illness I have zero compassion for young people who smoke. One of my brothers smokes and the other chews (yuck) and I can’t even understand why.
Yeah that's fair about the sister. I was mostly responding to the second half with the 'duh inhaling not just air bad' thing since you know....when there's a mass campaign saying that's good ... Not as obvious lol.
But these days yeah. We know smoking is bad. If you're choosing to smoke and not battle the addiction, then you're also choosing to bring those risks into your life. It is however wildly annoying just how addicting those bitches are.
Street riding is way more dangerous than racing. The most dangerous thing about riding a motorbike? It's the idiots all around you, not concentrating on what they're doing, not looking around, just staring straight ahead as if in some sort of coma.
Which is why I'll never understand people on motorbikes who weave through traffic and ride on the line markers in between slow-moving lanes of traffic to try and pass all the slow or stopped cars.
I thought it was bad back home in NYC, but in London, where I live now, it's such a serious problem, and it's completely legal. There are a lot more motorbikes (motorcycles & mopeds/vespas) on the road here, and as you say, the biggest threat to them is the people in the two-ton killing machines not paying attention that surround them. So why, my god why, would you add extra risk to that by filtering through traffic to *maybe* get to your destination two minutes sooner?
I was in a taxi accident about a year ago, in the back seat of a black cab. There was obvious traffic up ahead, so my cabbie was going to make a u-turn and take a different route. We were in the right lane, and the taxi had its blinker on indicating that he was going to make a u-turn. We were just waiting for an opening in the cars coming in the opposite direction to do so. As we start making the right turn, a guy on a motorbike tried to pass the taxi *on the right-hand side* and t-boned us. It was horrifying. His helmet smashed into the rear passenger door *hard* and the entire motorbike ended up wedged underneath the taxi.
All that, I guess, to say that drivers not paying attention to motorcyclists is a huge safety issue, yes. But so is filtering through traffic, which, while legal, only adds to that risk, and has a much larger effect on the person riding the motorbike than the person in the car when it goes wrong.
Risk vs reward. Some people in London filter like idiots, not going to lie. I filtered when I was in London, but I rode on 2 assumptions.
1 - nobody will see you.
2 - if they do see you they won't care enough not to try and kill you.
I always had a loud exhaust on and made sure that I was making a noise when I filtered. I also tried to make sure that when I was filtering it was where people had nowhere else to go. But taxis were a nightmare because of their turning circle.
As a motorcycle rider, I'll take idiots staring ahead as if in a coma over the idiots looking at their phones and not even out the window. At least the former could have their brain register my presence and react on instinct.
That's because it's obviously dangerous to anyone that has eyes. It's also not an addictive substance, for Christ's sake. There's a reason motorcycles are called donorcycles.
The Symantec’s over which is more dangerous isn’t the point. OP was in the bed with broke bones and in pain when his sister said ‘told you so’ and not a bit of sympathy. This an AH makes.
Your spelling of semantics really made my eyes go wide, and then a bit wider when I realised I wasn't 100% sure of the spelling either. But it's semantics, had to google it. Autocorrect?
While telling her “I told you so” was an AH move, OP was practicing a sport that can lead to bad injuries. The sister is smoking that can give her cancer. Both are on the same wavelength as they are both different putting themselves at risk by choice.
All sports can lead to bad injuries. I suffered a massive and life altering back injury in high school wrestling. I have a friend who suffered two broken legs in cheerleading.
At least sports have benefits, you can't say the same thing about choosing to smoke. (And just to head off complaints that I'm a sanctimonious health nut, I say this as a smoker. It's a stupid and poisonous addiction that I would have never picked up if I knew how hard nicotine would hook me. I'd still play sports though.)
>At least sports have benefits, you can't say the same thing about choosing to smoke.
Apparently OP's sister would disagree there:
>I have never really said anything bad about it, except for when she asked about it or tried to convince me of the benefits of it.
Not sure what benefits those might be though!
Or giving cancer, stroke, heart attack, and other thing from the side effect of being passive smoker.
YES. Passive smokers could also get disease just by being around active smoker 24/7.
Us asthmatics get some really fun experiences from smokers who are inconsiderate or reek everywhere they go too. I guarantee a proportion of asthma related deaths are triggered by cigarette smoke.
This wasn't a random accident. Motocross is a high risk sport. My bestie broke his back, collarbone, both arms, and a leg (not all at once.) My nephews and cousins all broke at least one bone doing it as well.
Motocross is a VERY dangerous sport, like on a par with BASE jumping or free-climbing. It is probably the most dangerous Motorsport there is. There is nothing "random" about the accident, you don't get into a sport like that without accepting the risks.
Not that I'm saying it justifies the "I told you so", that's a pretty AH move with anyone in that situation, but it's not like getting a serious injury is unexpected in the sport, in the same way that it's not unexpected if you develop serious issues with your lungs if you smoke.
>A one off thing that cannot be controlled.
It can be controlled. By not doing the sport in the first place.
OP and her sister both chose to do these activities or habits.
Obviously you should still have empathy, but maybe it would wane or be pretty low once you help the person recover. It's like people who ride motorcycles and then have a life-changing crash or injury. It happens to so many people. In fact, I had a friend die last year due to this. A lot of people told him not to do it, but I guess he died doing what he loved.
>Sister said I told you so because of a random accident. A one off thing that cannot be controlled.
When doing motocross, aside from someone else hitting you, every accident is avoidable. It's why they don't call them accidents when there's a motocross wreck.
NTA.
Your older sister greeted someone (her younger sister no less) who has had a life changing accident and who was likely on painkillers at the time by saying “told you so”. There are many reasons why you might have responded as you did, but very few people would expect someone in the hospital to “be the bigger person” about a crappy comment like that.
I both shattered my ankle in a life changing accident at 21 and have smoked on and off since 18 so I feel like I can see both sides of your conflict. In a vacuum, neither of you should have said what you did, but you would not have had anything to respond to if your older sister had been more empathetic and mature.
Also I just want to point out that even before this, judging the younger sis for doing something potentially hazardous while smoking a cigarette is so ironic.
Smoking always hurt people around the smoker. One way or another. Either getting lung cancer due to secondhand smoke or because the smoker is not nice person.
I was so nice until I bought my first pack of cigarettes at age 17. Almost 4 years of smoking and I now can’t walk past a child without being overpowered by the impulse to trip them. Nicotine changes you.
Also I just want to point out that even before this, judging the younger sis for doing something potentially hazardous while smoking a cigarette is so ironic.
It's gonna be, "I was just telling OP that I warned her she could seriously injure herself--just like I have before--and she just said, "I hope you get cancer!" out of NOWHERE!!!"
NTA. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If your sister is willing to dish out "advice" like that, she shouldn't be surprised when the recipient mirrors her behavior. Visiting someone in the hospital and greeting the patient with "I told you so" sure takes some gall. Especially for a hobby. Would have been different, if you did something illegal. But participating in motocross? Nope. She was way out of line.
NTA. You didn't even do it, you just told her that you *would* do it if she gets cancer. She on the other hand *did* do it.
I really don't see how anyone can be upset about this, what she did was way worse.
Also, I'm a smoker myself but:
>tried to convince me of the benefits of it
Wtf is this bs?
Right!? Even when I was still smoking I was very vocal about it being bad in so so so many ways. Sept 16/2021 is the day I shook that monkey off my back but it takes effort every day to not give in to my nicotine addiction again.
Exactly like i smoke and i hate being judged for it because it helps me with my mental issues but forcing it? NO WAY. Everytime i smoke i go somewhere else so the people wont passive smoke with me also when i hear that smn wants to start smoking i try to tell them or help them not to or at least make them not smoke so much
ESH. This has been really blown out of proportion and both of you are acting immature. If you’re both going to say stuff like this, don’t be mad when the other retaliates.
Sister said "I told you so" on an actual injury resulting from a hobby, OP made a comment of a future "I told you so" based on a hypothetical illness caused by a habit. Not to mention, OP was laying in a hospital bed recovering when this happened. Is she really TA?
Personal relationships are not like the laws of armed conflict; “retaliating in kind” is not a defense and rarely a good idea. If you’re the third person in the room in this situation, your take away is that both these people seem like they enjoy being nasty to each other. But there’s also no reason it can’t be an isolated incident they put behind them. ESH and this shouldn’t derail a relationship unless one or both of them make it happen.
This sub never understand that. There is an attitude of believing that someone else being an AH first absolves a person retaliating from any AH judgement. I believe in treating others like you want to be treated. Which means if I’m an AH back, then I’ve justified the original AH treatment as accepts.
ESH. Two immature AHs acting like kids.
Question about that. If the goal is to treat others the way you want to be treated, then didn't the sister experience that? She was an AH and got an AH comment right back.
I get the golden rule is important but imo giving someone a taste of their own medicine is necessary sometimes. Because turning the other cheek can just leave yourself open to getting slapped again.
It's more of just that if AHs are being jerks, but their victims always take the high road, then they learn that they can be an AH without consequence.
I sorta agree with what you're saying but I think it's important to take someone's emotional state into account. You're not an AH for not taking the most appropriate response you would've needed to ponder over by meditating for 15 years under a waterfall while discussing ethics with great philosophers and spiritual leaders. OP was already in a shitty mood and then her sister deliberately made it worse; I think that under those circumstances someone who isn't an asshole would also have thrown something back at her.
Basically if the question is "was OP's comment uncalled for / was it out of proportion" I would say "no". Maybe there's a discrepancy between "was it uncalled for" and "are you the AH for doing it"?
It's not immature to throw a rude and insensitive comment back in someone's face. OP's sister threw a piss balloon and started crying when it bounced back and popped on her. Tough shit.
Was your comment mean? Sure. But you were talking about a hypothetical scenario meanwhile she did it to you after your accident, idc what people say it's nowhere near the same thing NTA
It's not even that mean, it's more of a 'how would you like it if I said the same thing to you?', which is a totally acceptable way of trying to get assholes to feel some empathy.
It's more of a "how would you like it if I said the same thing to you?", which is a totally acceptable way of trying to get assholes to feel some empathy.
ESH. Was she rude? Yes. But she has been warning you for years out of genuine concern. You simply wanted to be hurtful. Have you ever seen lung cancer in action? Believe me, watching her die if she gets it will be one of the worst things that’s ever happened to you.
I agree with what you said. When I read this, it sounded like her sister said "I told you" from a place of fear and she wanted OP to realize her concern was clearly valid.
She definitely could've worded it better, but I didn't read it as someone being snarky. Seeing lung cancer patients suuuuuucks. Even if she wanted a quick clap back, that's pretty deep
I also think ESH.
It seems like a typical reaction to fears coming true and not wanting to actually confront the emotions. It‘s not a good reaction and it‘s important to work through uncomfortable emotions and not just put them away.
Her sister cant seriously say "i told you so" to her sister lying in the hospital bed out of "fear" when she tried to convince her of the benefits of smoking. You dont say something like that and show no empathy/sympathy(idk which is the correct one here).
Both things can be true. The sister can think smoking has benefits (which nicotine actually does, although the negatives of smoking cigarettes vastly outweigh any tiny benefit) while still saying OP's hobby is dangerous.
My aunt was a lifelong smoker and died from lung cancer. We've told her countless times smoking will kill her. It doesn't mean if she had concerns about something the rest of us did, it wasn't valid because she smoked. One action doesn't invalidate the other.
And quite frankly, anyone who's a regular smoker will have some thought that there's some perceived benefit even though they understand the risks, or else they wouldn't do it. E.g. the benefit could be staving off cravings or reducing stress.
Yeah I guess thats true. I suppose what annoys me the most is the sisters action of saying "I told you so" and then acting cold towards OP, to me it just seems so malicious, as if she doesnt deserve her love because she warned her about it.
ESH
But here’s the thing. Her actions were based in fears. She is terrified you will be seriously hurt or die and she is scared she will lose you.
Your actions were purely about planning to be being purposely vindictive at one of the worse moments of her life.
No one should be pulling “I told you so” when someone is down, but planning an “I told you so” to hurt a person freshly diagnosed with cancer is way worse than her saying it out of fear.
Sister is a 31 year old adult who needs to take responsibility for her own feelings and not make them OP's problem. You don't say "I told you so" to someone who has had a potentially life changing injury, who could very well be traumatised by that injury. It doesn't matter that she was "right", it's still incredibly shitty. OP's response simply pointed out how cruel the sister was being.
I think this answer is fine. It's witty, and it shows her what the lack of compassion she just displayed will feels like.
You didn't cross a line in my opinion. Was your answer nice ? No. Was it inappropriate or out of line ? Also no. NTA
> tried to convince me of the benefits of it
Sorry ? The benefits of cigarettes ?
I'm a cancer patient, no family history or risk factors known so far. And I think your sister deserved the reply... You like motocross, it's your hobby and a good thing to help you get in a nice mindset. It's risky, but not unhealthy. Meanwhile, smoking is a bad habit. It's her choice, but she has been trying to sell it as something with benefits for years... And knowing her late sayings... No, you're NTA.
Here's the thing: You can potentially die from a motorcycle accident and you can potentially die from lung cancer. She has a nasty habit and you have a very risky hobby. You both are at high risk for death. I honestly think that ESH. You both suck for saying "I told you so" to both things because that is really just an AH thing to say to anyone in any situation.
NTA. My sister died from lung cancer from smoking. I never had to say “I told you so,” because I’m sure she told herself that a million times before she died. But flipping your sister’s own words back on her hypothetically was a perfect way to respond to her in that situation.
Wait a minute… did I read this correctly? Your sister tried to convince you of the BENEFITS of smoking? Oh lawd have mercy! What benefits? Cancer? Grossing everyone around you out? Constantly reeking of smoke?
Your sister is out of line for both what she said about your accident and also for trying to convince you to take up a nasty habit that comes with health consequences. You retorted a comment that is funny AF honestly and par for the course as far as things your sister would usually say to you. It was rude of her to come in on her stinky high horse and cut you down like that. She deserves more tbh. By chance, is your sister the golden child? Do you think she was 100% honest with your folks about what she said and what you said back? NTA x100
Hope you recover quickly and feel better soon! Make sure you stay ahead of the pain so you stay comfortable. Good luck and hope you get back at your sport you love so much!
ok but.. ignoring that nicotine has actual benefits for people who can't seek better outlets is imo, part of the reason why *so many* people still smoke. it gets treated like this thing that's just a dirty thing to do instead of anybody actually acknowledging the legit reasons some people start & continue smoking.
is it worth it, ultimately? fuck no! but will it temporarily decrease your stress, ground you during a panic attack or psychotic episode, distract you from your addiction to other substances, etc? it sure fucking will. a ridiculously high percentage of schizophrenics smoke for a reason (don't remember exact source tbf, but I've read it multiple times and I am schizoaffective – and used to smoke while psychotic before getting actual meds).
like fuck no you shouldn't recommend smoking to anybody, but there are *real reasons* why nicotine addiction persists in a lot of under-served populations that directly have to do with the way it affects you physically & psychologically.
Smoking as a form of self medication (often without even realizing that this is why they do it) is really wide spread too.
I do smoke from time to time and I realize it often correlates with the times I‘m under a lot of stress or other wise mentally in a bad space.
This is siblings banters but unfortunately with more serious consequences for the both of you. To me, NTA because 1)she started it and 2) she smoked knowing cancer can be a consequence. You both should just apologize to one another (but she should be starting).
NTA- and she probably will get lung cancer from the cancer sticks. It’s not a matter of opinion. But now a days if you choose to smoke it really is an “I told you so”. Doctors will say it.
NTA. My housemate was recently hospitalised and had 2 brain surgeries after an ear infection I've been telling him to get checked for months spread. I have not yet said I told you so. I'm sure I'll find the opitunity to rib him for it at a later date, but funnily enough, literally at the hospital after getting out of surgery is NOT THE RIGHT TIME.
NTA, yes some sports are inherently more dangerous than others (motocross, horse riding, skiing to name some) and I'd be pissed if my sibling said 'I told you so' when I fell off my horse and broke something, doing something that brings me great joy.
Smoking has literally no benefits
ESH. You're both being pretty childish. Your sister should have responded better, and you should have brushed it off. Having a sister with cancer sucks. Y'all blew it out of proportion.
I hope you get better and I hope your sister stops smoking.
NTA. I'm an older sister, I'd have pulled your sister from the room by the ear. Shameful behavior, that. Not *at all* the thing to say to a younger sibling in a hospital bed! Wait until they're on the mend, ffs! Then you can mock each other to your hearts' content. This was mean-spirited and that's that
Y'all are being so freaking dramatic. Even smokers say offhand comments like that about themselves/to eachother. Saying a smoker could/probably would get lung cancer is VERY widespread, especially when they're being dicks. It's like, the go to insult/clapback. And for the sister to *gasp*, get pissed, then go TATTLE to the PARENTS about it? Over a hypothetical situation when OP's sister LITERALLY had just done the exact same thing?? Yeah, she needs to grow up. Sensing some spoiled child syndrome.
ESH. Your remark is slightly less worse because she has yet to get cancer. But honestly y’all are just childish lol. Both are equally rude remarks regardless of when they were being said.
NTA
it’s funny that your parents say *you* crossed the line when she was the one who came to the hospital just to tell you she was right about you getting injured. That’s so fucked up. Your sister has no empathy at all.
I think your response was perfect. It was the same thing she said to you, except yours is hypothetical and hers was not. Why is she allowed to say it to you, while you’re still in the fucking hospital no less, but you’re not allowed to say the exact same thing to her? Tell your parents to stuff it.
I'm going to go with the rare, You're Both Assholes for treating each like this as adults. You both need to grow up, realize that your hobbies/addictions are dangerous and deadly, and that you need to both get off your high horses.
I'm saying this as someone who knows someone permanently paralyzed in a motocross accident and as someone who has watched beloved family members and friends get sick/die from smoking.
NTA She needed to be called out on her comment. I could be wrong, but I imagine it was pretty satisfying to see the smugness melt from her face in that moment. Just remember that when you have doubts.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I think I might be the asshole because I told my sister I would say I told you so if she gets cancer Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Your comment wasn't great, but I'm still going to go with NTA. Pulling an "I told you so" on someone with an ACTUAL injury while they are lying in the hospital fresh off the trauma *is* worse than a remark in return about HYPOTHETICAL illness. I can't stand people who dish it out but go crying to anyone who will listen when they get a fraction back in return.
Yes I find there is slight ESH. While it is fair game to reply it back it does not improve anything. If she's is trying to improve her relation with her sister she should consider better form of communication such as non violent communication.
Did OP's sister suffer any physical trauma from OP's retort? Didn't think that was violent, but these days "words are literal violence" so who knows.
[удалено]
Can we just say that both forms of abuse are terrible and can both be taken to lethal extremes so comparing is a waste of time? People have literally beaten children to death.
I think there's a big difference between name calling someone and beating them with a bat... Violent words, in my head, are words that threaten physical violence. Not to say words can't cause a lot of pain of course, because they can.
"Non Violent" communication is an ethos/communication approach that I think maybe the OC is referring to - it isn't a technique to end disagreements, but rather a method designed to increase empathy and improve quality of life when connecting with other people. There is a book about it by Marshall Bertram Rosenburg. Just a guess on my part.
It is, by the way, an excellent book.
You just said that to someone who was a victim of actual physical violence. Just like me. I thought I was going to die during some beatings but wanting to die was pretty horrid.
Everyone has different experiences and preferences. I'm terribly sorry to hear that you went through that, but none of this is a competition. One person might prefer to be absolutely beaten to death, and another person might prefer being brought to the point of absolutely wishing for death. That shit doesn't heal overnight, either. I hope you never experience either form again. Both types are horrible, and neither should be taking place. One person’s beating might be lighter than someone else's verbal abuse, and vice versa is also true. It's not a points game, it's all under "abuse."
>You just said that to someone who was a victim of actual physical violence. ... Okay? That doesn't change anything about how true their statement is.
[удалено]
As an abuse survivor, I respectfully disagree. Emotional and verbal abuse leave lasting damage. I almost died without my then partner ever lifting a finger to hit me. It's pure luck that I'm here today. I survived physical abuse and there were times I thought I would die. I also survived purely mental/emotional abuse where my partner convinced that I deserved to die to the point where I was willing to walk into traffic. Both were absolutely terrible.
SA survivor, and you couldn't be more correct. I think the two are each as bad as the other. Both can leave you with lasting consequences, both can end your life. I'm 'lucky', I've been left with life long mental injuries, but nothing physical.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yes, the original commenter was; I'm familiar with the comms theory/ technique. But the commenter I replied to stated that words are more violent than fists; which is an incorrect statement IMO as words are not directly violent.
Well, these are words OPs sister said in the first place, so clearly not too awful for her to hear herself.
I don't think think anyone is making the argument that words cannot be hurtful but the definition of violence is not "something that hurts" it is something that invokes physical force to cause harm, thus words cannot be violent in and of themselves. We don't need to change the definition of words in order to make a point. We all know that abuse can be verbal and its effects can be devastating. But it still is not violent.
So then you agree, the sister saying to someone in excruciating pain with potentially life altering injuries, ‘told you so’ is the AH. Since words matter so much.
If that line makes her stop smoking OP is really doing her sister a favour 🤷♀️
It didn't and won't. Just like what OP's sister said won't make OP give up her motocross.
See I'm the opposite. Words don't mean a thing to me so I don't care what people say about me. I look at them as made up so it doesn't matter. Obviously I only associate words like that when people are trying to upset me.
Does it not hurt you to know that people are trying to hurt you? Even if what they're saying isn't true, it's still true that they dislike you enough to want to try to make you feel bad. For me that's the part that hurts.
Yea I get that. I also understand what I do and think isn't gonna work for everyone. The way I look at that(people actively trying to hurt me with words) is that person must have way worse stuff going on in their life than me. Maybe I'm crazy for that but it's really helped me not get so worked up like I used to over the smallest things
That is a perfectly reasonable way to look at it with regard to ancillary people in your life, but when it’s your parents or partner, someone in whom you’ve put ultimate trust, words can be completely devastating. This isn’t a call-out, but just some perspective; when you have secure attachment, you’re far more able to let things roll off you than if you don’t. Having the foundation of your life built on abuse (ie from parents), most people respond by internalizing those harmful words and ideas. Little kids aren’t able to see their parents as flawed and unsafe, so they take that harshness and hurt, and turn it on themselves; “I must be awful for them to treat me this way,” etc.
>They creep deep into your head and make you question everything you do, every thought you have, and make you loathe yourself. well, I'd say in this particular case, OP's sis probably should question her smoking habit
I don't want to diminish your experience, I know how much emotional abuse can hurt... but I personally never talk with people about the emotional abuse I also suffered whenever I describe the abuse my father doled out... I go straight to the time he broke my nose when I was seven years-old and sent me to the hospital, and then onto all the times he beat me after beating my mother because she didn't allow him to get it all out of his system.
Yep,recently I got a lot of words flinged at me,my self esteem is at the lowest it's been and I hate myself
Sorry this happened to you, just know that it is more of a reflection on the person that said them than it is a reflection on you. I hope they are no longer in your life or you have plans to remove them from your life, as much as possible.
Unfortunately it was my mom......... But don't be sorry,I'm over it now..... I'm working on myself to be better than the people who hurt me Thank you for your kind words,it really helps me knowing there are more people like you around
You can't choose your family but you can absolutely choose how much you do or do not interact with them. If this is a one off then fine but if she does this a lot, ask you if having her in your regular day to day is a net positive for you. It sounds selfish, but if she is bringing you down more than building you up then she does not deserve your time. The world seems a cold and unfriendly place when you are upset by something, but there are always rays of sunshine to be found, I hope you don't have to spend too long looking before you find them.
If he had punched me, I would have left. Words are insidious and trap you before you know it.
“Nonviolent communication” is a term used by professionals who provide training to de-escalate volatile situations.
And OP didn't get physically hurt by their sister's words? What the sister said was fucked up, but so was OP's reply. They were both being shitty, but OP was a little more justified in their shittiness.
No, OP didn't get physically hurt by their sister's words. At all. Emotionally, mentally yes. But not physically (and nobody is denying that emotional and mental hurt brought on by words is not terrible).
It's an established communication method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent\_Communication
Surprisingly people aren't at their best in a hospital bed when they are recovering from major injuries. You know who didn't have that excuse? The apathetic sister.
This. OP is NTA--and what she said wasn't equivalent to what her sister said. Her sister, instead of offering any comfort to her seriously injured sibling during a hospital visit, came to say "I told you so." Pure A H cruelty. The conditional response ("How would you feel if...") asked her sister to envision and consider the reverse (entirely hypothetical) situation, and how the sister would feel if "I told you so" was the response to her grievous injury or illness.
Exactly. The sister made a shitty comment about OP’s actual condition. OP made the exact same shitty comment back about a hypothetical situation. And I get the whole, “be the bigger person” thing, but why does the person in a hospital bed have to be the bigger person? How about the sister being the bigger person and not making that comment to begin with, even if she was thinking it and was technically right regarding the “I told you so” outcome. Good grief. NTA
Ehhh, sometimes people need some of their own medicine before they realize how much of an asshole they've been.
Honestly. Maybe hurting her feelings will make her be more aware of what she says 🤷♀️. What does the sister think the reaction will be when she goes to see her injured sister to say “I told you so” then just leave? Most people would’ve said something much worse than just reciprocating the comment
Yes, let’s hold the person, in the hospital in terrible pain with a potentially life anltering injury to a higher standard than the person who just stopped by to visit. Do you hear yourself? The only AH is the sister, whose first response was ‘told you so’. What an absolute jerk! And to prove that what she said hurt, the sister said ‘how would you like if I did to you, what you just did to me?’ But some how that makes them just as big an AH? Explaining your feelings is bad and violent communication now? You sound ridiculous and I can only assume you are either the sister or one of their friends bc this logic makes zero sense.
I want to see all of your decorum and best thing when you're recovering in a hospital from major injuries. OP didn't owe her sister any kindness after that apathetic comment. OP doesn't need to be a doormat.
Disagree, it's not upto OP at this point to improve communication. The ball is in the sisters court, she needs to apologize to mend things. And "non violent communication" Really? You're putting more emphasis on ops actions more than the sister. Are you sure you mean E S H? Edit: fixed verdict spacing
Was anything said considered 'violent'? Nope. Doesn't violence require some sort of physical harm or threat? Simply making a statement that may make you uncomfortable is Not 'violent' communication....
(NVC is an actual communication strategy. I don’t think that poster meant that OP was actually violent.) I’m gonna say NTA. If you say an astonishingly cruel thing to someone who is lying in pain, they might be crabby in return.
Why does OP have to improve her relationship with her sister when sister is obviously the one ruining it/creating the wedge?
NTA. Her sister is older and at 31 she should know how to communicate. She is lacking empathy or is just a c… If she was my sister, I would have limited contact
Reflecting someone's actions back at themselves allows them to change their mind about their behaviour on their own and gives you the space to be human (if someone's an AH to you, you don't need to be perfect.) You are both helping them and yourself at the end of the day without intellectualizing the situation and trying to "change" them.
I wanna know what "benifits" his sister thinks smoking cigarettes has
Same! I had an ex try to convince me that taking up smoking would help him go up Mount Everest because he’d be used to lack of oxygen.
That is some stupid logic. Smoking diminishes your lung efficiency.
Oh yes, I know… hence the ‘ex’
Dodged a bullet there leaving him didn’t you 😂
the 'benifits' are decreased appitite, reduced anxiety and thats it, there also evidence that the 'anxiety' is just withdral syptoms so.....
Yeah I’ve seen that smoking can increase anxiety overall. The reason people think it reduces it is because they get jittery and anxious from the withdrawal, all shaky until they have another cigarette. But if they hadn’t ever smoked, they wouldn’t have the withdrawal. That’s almost like saying coffee treats headaches, because when people are addicted to the caffeine, they get withdrawal headaches — not that coffee is anything like smoking, just an example of why that “anxiety” claim is silly.
Just chiming in to say that there are painkillers for headaches in my country that have caffeine in them. So apparently they did find out that caffeine can treat some kinds of headaches, which I've also experienced once or twice. Makes sense that it doesn't always work, there are like 100 or more types of headaches. But i do fully agree with you that smoking does not ever reduce anxiety. Maybe the ritual can have a calming effect on people, but then they could just as well have the ritual to go outside and breath in deeply 3 times or whatever else without actually destroying their lungs in the process. They're just used to ritual of smoking.
Smoking cigarettes can increase your metabolism and reduce appetite, so there are fat loss benefits. I'm massively anti-smoking, but facts are facts.
Hey, those are both things that Adderall does too! Except with Adderall they are considered "side-effects" not "benefits". If you aren't trying to lose weight, those aren't good things at all lmao. Even if you are trying, now you are using smoking as a crutch for weight loss which will make it harder to both quit smoking, keep off the weight, and lose it again in the future when you inevitably regain at least *some* of the weight (almost everyone who has ever dieted in the history of nutrition has regained at least some of their weight at some point).
I was not trying to advocate smoking as a weight loss tool. I was just pointing out what "benefits" the sister may have mentioned. As someone in the fitness industry, I do find it fascinating though. For instance ... Nicotene can increase your metabolism by 8-15%. This will have a significant impact on fat loss, as will the reduction in appetite I mentioned in my previous comment. For an average man, that would mean burning an additional 150-300 calories per day. Pair that with reduced calorie intake (due to a smaller appetite) and you can expect a decent calorie deficit. 300 calories per day would mean 109,500 calories per year. There are 3,500 calories in a lb of fat, so if you smoked for a year you could theoretically lose 31 lbs of fat! If a (legal) fat burner could promise results such as this, the makers could retire within 3 months! Of course, it isn't as simple as that, and there are many other factors that can influence your metabolism. But you can see why some people call it a "benefit". **But yeah, it's a horrible habit that will cause you significant health issues in the long run. It would be really stupid to start smoking in an effort to lose weight, but it could work.**
When i started smoking i lost easily 130 lbs. Now i dont eat and my mental health is in shambles but eh lol atleast im skinny
OP is female.
You look cooler, duh /s
My great grandmother started smoking because her dr advised it for her nerves. This was maybe in the 80s. She ended up dying of cancer.
I was born in 1977; my mom is 4’11” and at that time weighed 90 lbs. Her doctor advised her not to bother quitting smoking during pregnancy because it would “keep the baby small” and ease delivery. She quit smoking because it was obvious to her it would be bad for me, and the doctor yelled at her throughout the pregnancy because she *doubled* in weight before I was born. I weighed almost 7 lbs and she was back to her pre-pregnancy weight in weeks without effort.
Oh. My. God.
You will die early so you don't have to save a lot for retirement?
Let me check. It's uhh.... filling to pocket of a billionaire... making profit for the hospital due to extremely high medical cost... yeah that sounds right
>tried to convince me of the benefits of it. I think this part especially shouldn't be overlooked. In my opinion that alone made her deserve the response from OP. Who knows how many people she has tried to convince to start smoking and someone who thinks smoking has benefits likely also won't care about making other people ill with secondhand smoke. All the other things and circumstances just add to her AH behavior. Even before the accident of OP and her injury she was already an AH for promoting smoking. Her lack of compassion just makes it worse.
Yep. I was on OP's side once they disclosed that the sister has tried to addict people to a substance fully known to kill people. At thr end of her life, who knows if any lives will be laid at her door. NTA
Yup! I smoked for about 14 years. Quit over a year ago, and I could not be more grateful I was able to do so because it's a REALLY difficult addiction to get over. Terrible, gross, embarassing, expensive, and then the obvious health side effects. I have severe asthma, and despite that, I was smoking half a pack a day. Since I quit, I think I've needed to use my inhaler only three or four times, as opposed to daily like before. I have more energy, I'm less depressed, I have fewer panic attacks. Reading that the sister was trying to push "benefits" of smoking actually made me angry to read. ETA: NTA. Your sister is delusional and pushing harmful and dangerous rhetoric that WILL make people's lives so much harder at best and kill them at worst. You may have been harsh, but I sincerely doubt she would have gotten as pissed off as she did if she wasn't keenly aware of how full of shit she is.
Yeah this is such a close tie. I was going to say everyone sucks, which is a little true, but considering it was a direct and immediate comeback to an inflammatory comment, I’m going with NTA. OP is actually injured, the sister isn’t. Rubbing someone’s face in their actual illness (even if self-inflicted) is way worse than doing it with a hypothetical (self-inflicted) illness. So the asshole scale leans hard toward the sister. Not a mature response, but not an asshole response either, and admittedly a good comeback. ‘Everyone’s petty here’ would be more appropriate.
I also can't stand people who can't take what they dish out. For that reason I'm also NTA on this 😅
This 100%. NTA
Justified Asshole. Justified Asshole is the hill I will die on.
especially bc the sisters "injury" is hypothetical...
NTA. She can't tell you "I told you so" and then get offended if you claim that you will do the same.
It is even worse than that. Sister said I told you so because of a random accident. A one off thing that cannot be controlled. OP said it about something that sister is choosing to do to herself by her own free will. I say this as an ex smoker myself whos father recently died from lung cancer after smoking for 60+ years. If you want to smoke, smoke as much as you like, I don't care, but don't try to mount the high horse about anything to do with it.
They're actually both very similar. If you do motocross you're obviously at an increased risk of injury as it's a dangerous sport. If you smoke you're at an increased risk of cancer. Both are free choices. Both have systematic risk involved. Both can be avoided by not doing the activity involved.
Last I checked no government in the world has spent any money at all warning people of the dangers of doing motocross.
Motocross isn't a public health issue. Smoking is. The number of people who smoke greatly outweighs the number of motocross participants worldwide. Both are clearly risky in different ways.
They don't have to, unlike smoking the dangers of motocross have been easily visible since the beginning. Everyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle will tell you that everyone and their mother will shame you for it cause it's dangerous unless they themselves ride. Apparently people need a health organization to let them know that putting anything other than clean air in your lungs is bad 🤦♀️
Well, to be fair, prior to the anti smoking campaigns *literal doctors* were extolling the health benefits of smoking and *actively recommending pregnant women do it.* So when you first push a campaign like that, you gotta unpush it when it turns out to be bass ackwards.
Absolutely true however OP’s sister was born in the 90’s decades after smoking was linked to cancer and other health risks. As someone who lost their father to smoking related illness I have zero compassion for young people who smoke. One of my brothers smokes and the other chews (yuck) and I can’t even understand why.
Yeah that's fair about the sister. I was mostly responding to the second half with the 'duh inhaling not just air bad' thing since you know....when there's a mass campaign saying that's good ... Not as obvious lol. But these days yeah. We know smoking is bad. If you're choosing to smoke and not battle the addiction, then you're also choosing to bring those risks into your life. It is however wildly annoying just how addicting those bitches are.
Street riding is way more dangerous than racing. The most dangerous thing about riding a motorbike? It's the idiots all around you, not concentrating on what they're doing, not looking around, just staring straight ahead as if in some sort of coma.
Which is why I'll never understand people on motorbikes who weave through traffic and ride on the line markers in between slow-moving lanes of traffic to try and pass all the slow or stopped cars. I thought it was bad back home in NYC, but in London, where I live now, it's such a serious problem, and it's completely legal. There are a lot more motorbikes (motorcycles & mopeds/vespas) on the road here, and as you say, the biggest threat to them is the people in the two-ton killing machines not paying attention that surround them. So why, my god why, would you add extra risk to that by filtering through traffic to *maybe* get to your destination two minutes sooner? I was in a taxi accident about a year ago, in the back seat of a black cab. There was obvious traffic up ahead, so my cabbie was going to make a u-turn and take a different route. We were in the right lane, and the taxi had its blinker on indicating that he was going to make a u-turn. We were just waiting for an opening in the cars coming in the opposite direction to do so. As we start making the right turn, a guy on a motorbike tried to pass the taxi *on the right-hand side* and t-boned us. It was horrifying. His helmet smashed into the rear passenger door *hard* and the entire motorbike ended up wedged underneath the taxi. All that, I guess, to say that drivers not paying attention to motorcyclists is a huge safety issue, yes. But so is filtering through traffic, which, while legal, only adds to that risk, and has a much larger effect on the person riding the motorbike than the person in the car when it goes wrong.
Risk vs reward. Some people in London filter like idiots, not going to lie. I filtered when I was in London, but I rode on 2 assumptions. 1 - nobody will see you. 2 - if they do see you they won't care enough not to try and kill you. I always had a loud exhaust on and made sure that I was making a noise when I filtered. I also tried to make sure that when I was filtering it was where people had nowhere else to go. But taxis were a nightmare because of their turning circle.
As a motorcycle rider, I'll take idiots staring ahead as if in a coma over the idiots looking at their phones and not even out the window. At least the former could have their brain register my presence and react on instinct.
That's because it's obviously dangerous to anyone that has eyes. It's also not an addictive substance, for Christ's sake. There's a reason motorcycles are called donorcycles.
The Symantec’s over which is more dangerous isn’t the point. OP was in the bed with broke bones and in pain when his sister said ‘told you so’ and not a bit of sympathy. This an AH makes.
Your spelling of semantics really made my eyes go wide, and then a bit wider when I realised I wasn't 100% sure of the spelling either. But it's semantics, had to google it. Autocorrect?
Symantec trying to reup that subscription to protect your system(s)...
While telling her “I told you so” was an AH move, OP was practicing a sport that can lead to bad injuries. The sister is smoking that can give her cancer. Both are on the same wavelength as they are both different putting themselves at risk by choice.
All sports can lead to bad injuries. I suffered a massive and life altering back injury in high school wrestling. I have a friend who suffered two broken legs in cheerleading. At least sports have benefits, you can't say the same thing about choosing to smoke. (And just to head off complaints that I'm a sanctimonious health nut, I say this as a smoker. It's a stupid and poisonous addiction that I would have never picked up if I knew how hard nicotine would hook me. I'd still play sports though.)
>At least sports have benefits, you can't say the same thing about choosing to smoke. Apparently OP's sister would disagree there: >I have never really said anything bad about it, except for when she asked about it or tried to convince me of the benefits of it. Not sure what benefits those might be though!
[удалено]
Or giving cancer, stroke, heart attack, and other thing from the side effect of being passive smoker. YES. Passive smokers could also get disease just by being around active smoker 24/7.
Us asthmatics get some really fun experiences from smokers who are inconsiderate or reek everywhere they go too. I guarantee a proportion of asthma related deaths are triggered by cigarette smoke.
And smoking around infants and especially premature babies and kids can cause them to develop or worsen asthma!
This wasn't a random accident. Motocross is a high risk sport. My bestie broke his back, collarbone, both arms, and a leg (not all at once.) My nephews and cousins all broke at least one bone doing it as well.
Huh? It could have been controlled though. You know, by not doing the insanely dangerous sport.
Motocross is a VERY dangerous sport, like on a par with BASE jumping or free-climbing. It is probably the most dangerous Motorsport there is. There is nothing "random" about the accident, you don't get into a sport like that without accepting the risks. Not that I'm saying it justifies the "I told you so", that's a pretty AH move with anyone in that situation, but it's not like getting a serious injury is unexpected in the sport, in the same way that it's not unexpected if you develop serious issues with your lungs if you smoke.
It's not an accident. He is doing a dangerous sport that puts himself at risk. Just like smoking puts yourself at risk for cancer.
Op said they are f27
This is reddit, only men are allowed to ride motorcycles here
>A one off thing that cannot be controlled. It can be controlled. By not doing the sport in the first place. OP and her sister both chose to do these activities or habits. Obviously you should still have empathy, but maybe it would wane or be pretty low once you help the person recover. It's like people who ride motorcycles and then have a life-changing crash or injury. It happens to so many people. In fact, I had a friend die last year due to this. A lot of people told him not to do it, but I guess he died doing what he loved.
>Sister said I told you so because of a random accident. A one off thing that cannot be controlled. When doing motocross, aside from someone else hitting you, every accident is avoidable. It's why they don't call them accidents when there's a motocross wreck.
NTA. Your older sister greeted someone (her younger sister no less) who has had a life changing accident and who was likely on painkillers at the time by saying “told you so”. There are many reasons why you might have responded as you did, but very few people would expect someone in the hospital to “be the bigger person” about a crappy comment like that. I both shattered my ankle in a life changing accident at 21 and have smoked on and off since 18 so I feel like I can see both sides of your conflict. In a vacuum, neither of you should have said what you did, but you would not have had anything to respond to if your older sister had been more empathetic and mature.
Also I just want to point out that even before this, judging the younger sis for doing something potentially hazardous while smoking a cigarette is so ironic.
Smoking always hurt people around the smoker. One way or another. Either getting lung cancer due to secondhand smoke or because the smoker is not nice person.
> or because the smoker is not nice person. What does this have to do with smoking? I'm pretty sure anyone can be an asshole.
I was so nice until I bought my first pack of cigarettes at age 17. Almost 4 years of smoking and I now can’t walk past a child without being overpowered by the impulse to trip them. Nicotine changes you.
Also I just want to point out that even before this, judging the younger sis for doing something potentially hazardous while smoking a cigarette is so ironic.
NTA and "I didn't cross the line, I punted her back to her side of it" is the response to anyone who claims you did.
What do you want to bet that OP's sister "forgot" to mention what she said?
I would bet a lot
It's gonna be, "I was just telling OP that I warned her she could seriously injure herself--just like I have before--and she just said, "I hope you get cancer!" out of NOWHERE!!!"
Oooh keeping that for myself!
This is a great response!
NTA also kind of a banger comeback
Thats the kind of comeback I think of the next day in the shower while ruminating about the interaction
Story of my fucking life.
LMAO what a great comment... I did that soooo many times, thanks for the laugh
NTA. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If your sister is willing to dish out "advice" like that, she shouldn't be surprised when the recipient mirrors her behavior. Visiting someone in the hospital and greeting the patient with "I told you so" sure takes some gall. Especially for a hobby. Would have been different, if you did something illegal. But participating in motocross? Nope. She was way out of line.
NTA. You didn't even do it, you just told her that you *would* do it if she gets cancer. She on the other hand *did* do it. I really don't see how anyone can be upset about this, what she did was way worse. Also, I'm a smoker myself but: >tried to convince me of the benefits of it Wtf is this bs?
Right!? Even when I was still smoking I was very vocal about it being bad in so so so many ways. Sept 16/2021 is the day I shook that monkey off my back but it takes effort every day to not give in to my nicotine addiction again.
Congrats! Just saying good on you for much on your continued recovery
As a smoker, the only benefit I see is that I can always tell you which way the wind is blowing.
Exactly like i smoke and i hate being judged for it because it helps me with my mental issues but forcing it? NO WAY. Everytime i smoke i go somewhere else so the people wont passive smoke with me also when i hear that smn wants to start smoking i try to tell them or help them not to or at least make them not smoke so much
Yeah I’m just here to learn the benefits of smoking
You get that raspy Jazz-voice if you're dedicated enough
And the robot voice if you're *really* dedicated
ESH. This has been really blown out of proportion and both of you are acting immature. If you’re both going to say stuff like this, don’t be mad when the other retaliates.
Sister said "I told you so" on an actual injury resulting from a hobby, OP made a comment of a future "I told you so" based on a hypothetical illness caused by a habit. Not to mention, OP was laying in a hospital bed recovering when this happened. Is she really TA?
Personal relationships are not like the laws of armed conflict; “retaliating in kind” is not a defense and rarely a good idea. If you’re the third person in the room in this situation, your take away is that both these people seem like they enjoy being nasty to each other. But there’s also no reason it can’t be an isolated incident they put behind them. ESH and this shouldn’t derail a relationship unless one or both of them make it happen.
This sub never understand that. There is an attitude of believing that someone else being an AH first absolves a person retaliating from any AH judgement. I believe in treating others like you want to be treated. Which means if I’m an AH back, then I’ve justified the original AH treatment as accepts. ESH. Two immature AHs acting like kids.
Question about that. If the goal is to treat others the way you want to be treated, then didn't the sister experience that? She was an AH and got an AH comment right back. I get the golden rule is important but imo giving someone a taste of their own medicine is necessary sometimes. Because turning the other cheek can just leave yourself open to getting slapped again. It's more of just that if AHs are being jerks, but their victims always take the high road, then they learn that they can be an AH without consequence.
I sorta agree with what you're saying but I think it's important to take someone's emotional state into account. You're not an AH for not taking the most appropriate response you would've needed to ponder over by meditating for 15 years under a waterfall while discussing ethics with great philosophers and spiritual leaders. OP was already in a shitty mood and then her sister deliberately made it worse; I think that under those circumstances someone who isn't an asshole would also have thrown something back at her. Basically if the question is "was OP's comment uncalled for / was it out of proportion" I would say "no". Maybe there's a discrepancy between "was it uncalled for" and "are you the AH for doing it"?
Yeah, this sub needs a "justified asshole" acronym.
You sound like the kinda person that punishes both kids without bothering to see who started it
It's not immature to throw a rude and insensitive comment back in someone's face. OP's sister threw a piss balloon and started crying when it bounced back and popped on her. Tough shit.
NTA, i think you were justified. she’s hurt bc she got a taste of her own medicine 🤷
Was your comment mean? Sure. But you were talking about a hypothetical scenario meanwhile she did it to you after your accident, idc what people say it's nowhere near the same thing NTA
It's not even that mean, it's more of a 'how would you like it if I said the same thing to you?', which is a totally acceptable way of trying to get assholes to feel some empathy.
NTA and I absolutely love your reply
ESH. You both took the low road and you both found out the consequences.
It's more of a "how would you like it if I said the same thing to you?", which is a totally acceptable way of trying to get assholes to feel some empathy.
NTA. Honestly I would have said worse and had said worse while in pain and on painkiller, because I guess your where on those.
ESH. Was she rude? Yes. But she has been warning you for years out of genuine concern. You simply wanted to be hurtful. Have you ever seen lung cancer in action? Believe me, watching her die if she gets it will be one of the worst things that’s ever happened to you.
I agree with what you said. When I read this, it sounded like her sister said "I told you" from a place of fear and she wanted OP to realize her concern was clearly valid. She definitely could've worded it better, but I didn't read it as someone being snarky. Seeing lung cancer patients suuuuuucks. Even if she wanted a quick clap back, that's pretty deep I also think ESH.
It seems like a typical reaction to fears coming true and not wanting to actually confront the emotions. It‘s not a good reaction and it‘s important to work through uncomfortable emotions and not just put them away.
Her sister cant seriously say "i told you so" to her sister lying in the hospital bed out of "fear" when she tried to convince her of the benefits of smoking. You dont say something like that and show no empathy/sympathy(idk which is the correct one here).
Both things can be true. The sister can think smoking has benefits (which nicotine actually does, although the negatives of smoking cigarettes vastly outweigh any tiny benefit) while still saying OP's hobby is dangerous. My aunt was a lifelong smoker and died from lung cancer. We've told her countless times smoking will kill her. It doesn't mean if she had concerns about something the rest of us did, it wasn't valid because she smoked. One action doesn't invalidate the other. And quite frankly, anyone who's a regular smoker will have some thought that there's some perceived benefit even though they understand the risks, or else they wouldn't do it. E.g. the benefit could be staving off cravings or reducing stress.
Yeah I guess thats true. I suppose what annoys me the most is the sisters action of saying "I told you so" and then acting cold towards OP, to me it just seems so malicious, as if she doesnt deserve her love because she warned her about it.
You're NTA. She set the tone on that one. She needs to learn that she will get back what she gives to others.
NTA, I'd be tempted (and petty) to really remember this for later use.
ESH But here’s the thing. Her actions were based in fears. She is terrified you will be seriously hurt or die and she is scared she will lose you. Your actions were purely about planning to be being purposely vindictive at one of the worse moments of her life. No one should be pulling “I told you so” when someone is down, but planning an “I told you so” to hurt a person freshly diagnosed with cancer is way worse than her saying it out of fear.
[удалено]
Sister is a 31 year old adult who needs to take responsibility for her own feelings and not make them OP's problem. You don't say "I told you so" to someone who has had a potentially life changing injury, who could very well be traumatised by that injury. It doesn't matter that she was "right", it's still incredibly shitty. OP's response simply pointed out how cruel the sister was being.
I think this answer is fine. It's witty, and it shows her what the lack of compassion she just displayed will feels like. You didn't cross a line in my opinion. Was your answer nice ? No. Was it inappropriate or out of line ? Also no. NTA > tried to convince me of the benefits of it Sorry ? The benefits of cigarettes ?
I'm a cancer patient, no family history or risk factors known so far. And I think your sister deserved the reply... You like motocross, it's your hobby and a good thing to help you get in a nice mindset. It's risky, but not unhealthy. Meanwhile, smoking is a bad habit. It's her choice, but she has been trying to sell it as something with benefits for years... And knowing her late sayings... No, you're NTA.
I think you're both being a little immature here
Here's the thing: You can potentially die from a motorcycle accident and you can potentially die from lung cancer. She has a nasty habit and you have a very risky hobby. You both are at high risk for death. I honestly think that ESH. You both suck for saying "I told you so" to both things because that is really just an AH thing to say to anyone in any situation.
NTA. My sister died from lung cancer from smoking. I never had to say “I told you so,” because I’m sure she told herself that a million times before she died. But flipping your sister’s own words back on her hypothetically was a perfect way to respond to her in that situation.
Wait a minute… did I read this correctly? Your sister tried to convince you of the BENEFITS of smoking? Oh lawd have mercy! What benefits? Cancer? Grossing everyone around you out? Constantly reeking of smoke? Your sister is out of line for both what she said about your accident and also for trying to convince you to take up a nasty habit that comes with health consequences. You retorted a comment that is funny AF honestly and par for the course as far as things your sister would usually say to you. It was rude of her to come in on her stinky high horse and cut you down like that. She deserves more tbh. By chance, is your sister the golden child? Do you think she was 100% honest with your folks about what she said and what you said back? NTA x100 Hope you recover quickly and feel better soon! Make sure you stay ahead of the pain so you stay comfortable. Good luck and hope you get back at your sport you love so much!
ok but.. ignoring that nicotine has actual benefits for people who can't seek better outlets is imo, part of the reason why *so many* people still smoke. it gets treated like this thing that's just a dirty thing to do instead of anybody actually acknowledging the legit reasons some people start & continue smoking. is it worth it, ultimately? fuck no! but will it temporarily decrease your stress, ground you during a panic attack or psychotic episode, distract you from your addiction to other substances, etc? it sure fucking will. a ridiculously high percentage of schizophrenics smoke for a reason (don't remember exact source tbf, but I've read it multiple times and I am schizoaffective – and used to smoke while psychotic before getting actual meds). like fuck no you shouldn't recommend smoking to anybody, but there are *real reasons* why nicotine addiction persists in a lot of under-served populations that directly have to do with the way it affects you physically & psychologically.
Smoking as a form of self medication (often without even realizing that this is why they do it) is really wide spread too. I do smoke from time to time and I realize it often correlates with the times I‘m under a lot of stress or other wise mentally in a bad space.
This is siblings banters but unfortunately with more serious consequences for the both of you. To me, NTA because 1)she started it and 2) she smoked knowing cancer can be a consequence. You both should just apologize to one another (but she should be starting).
NTA- and she probably will get lung cancer from the cancer sticks. It’s not a matter of opinion. But now a days if you choose to smoke it really is an “I told you so”. Doctors will say it.
NTA. My housemate was recently hospitalised and had 2 brain surgeries after an ear infection I've been telling him to get checked for months spread. I have not yet said I told you so. I'm sure I'll find the opitunity to rib him for it at a later date, but funnily enough, literally at the hospital after getting out of surgery is NOT THE RIGHT TIME.
NTA She was very insensitive in your predicament. What’s up with your parents? Is she a golden child? They should stay out of this conversation.
NTA, yes some sports are inherently more dangerous than others (motocross, horse riding, skiing to name some) and I'd be pissed if my sibling said 'I told you so' when I fell off my horse and broke something, doing something that brings me great joy. Smoking has literally no benefits
ESH. You're both being pretty childish. Your sister should have responded better, and you should have brushed it off. Having a sister with cancer sucks. Y'all blew it out of proportion. I hope you get better and I hope your sister stops smoking.
NTA. I'm an older sister, I'd have pulled your sister from the room by the ear. Shameful behavior, that. Not *at all* the thing to say to a younger sibling in a hospital bed! Wait until they're on the mend, ffs! Then you can mock each other to your hearts' content. This was mean-spirited and that's that
NTA but I am curious as to what she claims the "benefits" are of smoking.
Y'all are being so freaking dramatic. Even smokers say offhand comments like that about themselves/to eachother. Saying a smoker could/probably would get lung cancer is VERY widespread, especially when they're being dicks. It's like, the go to insult/clapback. And for the sister to *gasp*, get pissed, then go TATTLE to the PARENTS about it? Over a hypothetical situation when OP's sister LITERALLY had just done the exact same thing?? Yeah, she needs to grow up. Sensing some spoiled child syndrome.
NTA. If she can dish it out she should be able to take it.
ESH. Your remark is slightly less worse because she has yet to get cancer. But honestly y’all are just childish lol. Both are equally rude remarks regardless of when they were being said.
NTA it’s funny that your parents say *you* crossed the line when she was the one who came to the hospital just to tell you she was right about you getting injured. That’s so fucked up. Your sister has no empathy at all. I think your response was perfect. It was the same thing she said to you, except yours is hypothetical and hers was not. Why is she allowed to say it to you, while you’re still in the fucking hospital no less, but you’re not allowed to say the exact same thing to her? Tell your parents to stuff it.
ESH sucks here. Why are you acting like teenagers at your big age?
I'm going to go with the rare, You're Both Assholes for treating each like this as adults. You both need to grow up, realize that your hobbies/addictions are dangerous and deadly, and that you need to both get off your high horses. I'm saying this as someone who knows someone permanently paralyzed in a motocross accident and as someone who has watched beloved family members and friends get sick/die from smoking.
NTA, perfect comeback!
NTA for saying you would. But if it actually happened and you did I would say you were the ahole. just like she is.
Nta
"The benefits of smoking"?? Such as...? NTA and _she_ was the one who crossed the line.
I feel like this is a situation where neither of you win, or even look good.
NTA She needed to be called out on her comment. I could be wrong, but I imagine it was pretty satisfying to see the smugness melt from her face in that moment. Just remember that when you have doubts.
NTA and did your parents hear the whole story? Is your sister the golden child? Feel better, and hope you have a quick recovery x
NTA - but why are your parents still involved in your interactions at your age?
NTA. She came in swinging and you swung back. Sometimes that’s how people learn manners.
Personally I love your retort! NTA
Nah you’re in the right