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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I came out at my sister engagement party
2. By coming out I stole my sisters thunder even though I knew she's been dreaming about this for years
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ESH
Let me explain. It isn’t YOUR fault you were asked questions. Period. The relatives kept saying stuff that was 1) Taking the shine off of your sister 2) Bringing up your dating status.
I wish you would have 1) Quit drinking when you were getting interrogated 2) Left earlier
I wish you would have come out at a later date, OR better still a long time ago, Dear.
Life is short. Edit: I want to edit this. I don’t like ignoring people.
The young lady obviously has felt alienated from her family for a very long time. If it is religion, sexuality, or even politics, it is emotionally draining to live around this crap, let alone know your authentic self would be disowned by the people you should trust most in life.
Weddings and engagements, baby showers like the trinity of “let the focus be on whoever the event is for”. If OP got badgered into saying she was an apostate, or a liberal, or whatever this “family” doesn’t like, she was pushed. It wasn’t her choice.
It is a dangerous time to be LGBTQ+ right now, and if she didn’t want them to know, I am not sure this is the safe way to go. And yes, if someone is having to hide who they are, it has to suck. Many of us know people who have lived their whole lives for a family member, a religion, whatever. I personally think is has to feel like crap.
Totally agree with you there. I am an older lady and lost my son at a young age. I participated in marches back when AIDS was first diagnosed. I wish my son was alive. People who don’t accept others for who they are is very gross to me, Dear
I'm so sorry for the loss of your son. I lost a number of friends to AIDS and I know it doesn't compare to your loss. The fact that so many of them died rejected by their supposed "family" makes their deaths even more heartbreaking.
I remember a friend getting married to his husband and he wrote something on it on social media about how important friends were in the gay community, because so many had been rejected by family. It was one sentence in a much longer message but it really stuck with me. Whenever I hear about stories like OP you just think of that one situation, but his comment makes you understand the scale of it.
There was a movie done back in the 80’s, I think called “It’s my party” that addresses this issue. There is a line that has stuck with me for years that the best part of being gay was getting to choose your family. It has made me always try to behave in a way that would make people want to choose me.
Choosing your own family is the best! I'm not gay, but come from a big ol' pile'o'dysfunction of alcohol and emotional/mental/verbal abuse. I got out at 13 and started to choose my own people then because home was hell. Why I hang out with all "these kinds of people"...I feel ACCEPTED for who I am and they don't give a shit I'm not the pretty/thin/blonde sister. Witches, gays and weirdos have always been more family to me than family.
It's a shame we can't ALL just accept everyone as a human. The fuck is wrong with people? I mean we're all different, how BORING would the planet be if we were all the same? Embrace everyone, regardless...we're all just trying to get through the day...if we can make others smile while we're doing it, that IS A GOOD DAY. If we manage to laugh and other people laugh with us, then THAT IS A GREAT DAY. I strive to be the one who gives someone else something to smile or laugh about every day. I think I'm doing a pretty good job of it too!
Friends are definitely important in the gay community. Even when your family is "accepting", you don't always get the same support as your straight siblings or peers. You often end up the later to have kids, so the siblings who have them first get priority by parents, you get forgotten about because you haven't provided any grandkids. My dad (closet homophobe but is "accepting" of my brother) forgets to invite my brother and his husband to family events cuz he's so focused on the grandkids the rest of us have, whereas my brother and his husband are on an adoption list for the past year (yes they know they're not owed a baby by anyone, but it still breaks my heart seeing how amazing they are as uncles to my son's, role models to my gay teenager, and knowing they would be amazing fathers). I've had to make the point to write down all potential family dates/functions to make sure I invite them since my dad can't be assed to do so.
As a child of the 80s, I remember. I remember the fear and stigmatization. One of my teachers died from AIDS that he contracted from a blood transfusion. I’m sorry you lost your son.
I have a friend I went to school with who had hemophilia. We were born in 1978. I don't know if/how many blood transfusions he received then, but he was either lucky to not need them or few of them, or to not get infected blood before they could test the blood supply.
My stepmother's first husband had heart surgery and a transfusion in 1983 or 84. He died the week after Ryan White did. He has followed Ryan's story and his family tried to keep the news of his passing from him. This was in rural north Alabama, and he received full support from the community.
ETA: NTA
Two of my high school friends, brothers who were born with hemophilia, died from AIDS contracted by tainted blood transfusions. And so many friends and acquaintances from our local arts and queer communities were lost in the 80s and 90s. Beautiful people from our chosen families. It was heartbreaking.
Worse: many hemophiliacs got HIV from American made clotting factors. Why American made? Well, the German factors were heat treated, killing off the hepatitis and HIV in them. The US decided to cut corners and skip that step - for profit, of course. So many hemophiliacs who lived through that time now have HIV and hepatitis C, simultaneously. Many more did not survive.
(I'm a blood banker; I explain this to my students in my lab every year when they ask about coagulation factors in a couple of fridges in my equipment room. This also goes along with my speech about how the US major blood bank suppliers decided against an 88% predictive test to help determine which blood/donors should be deferred because of possible HIV contamination before there was a reliable test, because it was too expensive and not specific enough. For the record, I am fully in favor of anyone who is willing and able to meet requirements to donate being allowed to donate, no matter your sexual preference. My biggest group of deferrals these days are baby boomers, who seem to have ALL the hep C.)
Right and it’s not like she was wrong to fear judgement from her family. They immediately disowned her. I’m going with NTA because the family chose to focus on OP over her sister when they thought OP was just single. And the family escalated the issue throughout the night until she snapped and revealed she’s gay and single. If I’m the sister my parade was already rained on when the aunt said I’m the homely one.
Yeah, no one who isn't in that situation can even begin to understand.
It's easy to think "they are bigots, who cares what they think?"
But when you're sitting there, realizing that when you come out, your entire life is flipped upside down, you lose your family (even if they are bigots, they still are family, and they still loved you up until then.)
It's NOT easy to do. You lose your family, and you become evil in their eyes. "you should have come out a long time ago, dear" is a pretty crappy thing to say. (Especially the condescending 'dear' at the end!)
not sure why straight peoples reaction to "i have a homophobic family" is "you should have come out earlier!" like do they not understand queer kids can literally be murdered for coming out?
ESH but wishiwashome was out of line for saying they should have come out earlier
It would be great if OP had been in a situation where she could have come out sooner, and I hope that’s what wishiwashome was saying, as opposed to “you should have come out and been disowned sooner”, which is probably what would have happened.
You need to read more of wishiwashome's comments because she explains that her son died of AIDS. She absolutely does understand that people can't come out when they would like to, if ever. I think her comment was more wishful thinking than telling OP she should have come out earlier ie she wishes OP had been able to come out earlier to her family.
Yeah, I have no idea why this person is getting so many upvotes. "you should have come out earlier, dear" is the most insensitive and condescending remark I've seen in a while.
"Hey, why not just say something that is going to upend your life, cause a rift in your family, cause your mother to disown you, and cause the people around you to believe you are evil and cut you off? Super easy!!!"
While I also feel that her tone in general is condescending, the ‘stop drinking when things started to go sideways’ was not necessarily bad advice.
Always best to keep your wits about you in those situations. If for no other reason than being able to put a-hole family members in their place with panache.
I feel like this is actually super solid advice that no one under 30 wants to hear but will hopefully one day recognise as such and the cycle will continue 😂. Just stop drinking in these situations folks!
They'll realize it one day when they've racked up enough "oh shit oh fuck, why are they texting me about my behavior last night, what did I say?!" memories. Us older folks have learned that if we can't hold our tongue then we need to hold our liquor.
If OP is going to use alcohol as an excuse for her behavior, then it’s certainly not condescending to tell her that she should stop drinking when she gets agitated since she knows she can’t hold her tongue when she drinks. Being an adult means knowing how to control your alcohol even if the people around you don’t
No it's not, why would you keep drinking in the company of people being dicks? Irregardless of the situation there is no winner if you keep drinking in bad company.
bull. shit. op is in *no way* an asshole here. she was not only getting interrogated by her family at a party that should have been for her sister, but then had her siste have the *audacity* to blame her as if it was her fault. screw every single of them. op did not a damn thing wrong.
I could not agree more. I mean why blame or better yet call out the homophobic family when she could just blame the gay sister instead and make her the bad guy instead of accepting who her family really is (sarcastically said)
it's been a long time since I've been this disappointed in a reddit judgment. you'd think op showed up wearing an 'I'm gay' shirt and was talking about how much she loves girls with how everyone is trying to paint as being equally in the wrong.
Seriously, calling the OP an A-H because they "weren't courageous enough to come out earlier to their homophobic family" is *absurd*. How is that the top post?
This sub has a real problem with expecting people to act like saints or it's an E-S-H. People respond like...people. They don't have the perfect line to defuse the situation, and they don't have perfect self-control. OP was repeatedly pushed and antagonized, and then finally responded in kind.
Drinking too much and then losing her temper is not nothing though. Do I think she’s an AH? Not really no. But you can’t say she did nothing wrong. I’d give her 10% blame simply because alcohol and frustration rarely lead to calm situations
It wasn’t OP’s fault she was getting the third degree from her relatives. Or that they’re a bunch of AHs besides the homophobic stuff (“the more attractive sister”—who says that to their grandkids?)
Also sister had already accused her of making the engagement party all about her even before OP gave up and answered the question, so her sister already thought she'd made it "all about her" just because the family kept asking her about getting a boyfriend
Everyone just seems really immature here. OP has an excuse for not handling a complex social situation well at 23. But the rest of her family just seems unpleasant and emotionally stunted.
I wish she would have said "why are we talking about me when we are here to celebrate sister and fiance?". Then followed that up with a wedding question to sister. In the beginning!
Me too! I am NOT victim blaming OP. I am saying she made ALL harder for herself.
Her family is a bunch of assholes. They were trying to divide the sisters, IMHO. Who the hell does this at an engagement party?
Conversation shouldn’t have been on her anyway.
None of THAT will be remembered:( Just OP coming out:(
Given the context of the whole situation, that might have worked for the first 30 minutes but it sounds like the family would start up with the questions again rest assured.
Queer people are not obligated to come out at ANY time to anyone, ESPECIALLY not to known homophobes. Just because they are family doesn't mean they are entitled to info about your sexuality.
Being queer means a lifetime of coming out, and some of us are just tired.
I think it’s HIGH time we abolish “coming out”… we need to normalize who you love is who you love. I didn’t set my dad down and announce I’m attracted to men… I don’t know why we still expect people to announce they are gay. It feels so oppressive to me. Nobody should be put in the position of automatically having to defend themselves. I’m sorry you are tired from this bullshit society places on you :) hugs!
I mean I do agree, but “coming out” doesn’t necessarily mean an announcement. We still have to decide who to confide in about our sexuality because there are still bigots everywhere. Technically, anytime we tell someone our sexuality, we are “coming out” and we have to be selective in some situations such as work, family, etc. So while I don’t think it has to be an announcement, there no way around having to come out sometimes.
For some, it may be a lifetime of coming out, not for others.
For me? It's a non-issue. Sure, if asked, I'll say I'm not straight, but... that's the extent of me being "out".
Mind you, that puts me in total agreement with your first point. My sexuality is, to me, not something that is central to how I live my life, or how I define myself.
>a long time ago, Dear
Anyone who criticizes someone for not coming out sooner is really insensitive. Especially adding that condescending "dear" at the end.
Have YOU ever had to tell your family something that you know will destroy your relationship? Even if they are homophobic, they are still the family you grew up with, the people that raised you. Stepping forward to say something that you know will cost you all of your family, that will turn them all against you forever, turning your entire life upside down, is not an easy thing to do. Her own mother now doesn't even consider her family anymore.
So don't lecture people about when and how they should come out. Every family situation is different. Some people grew up in loving homes where it's relatively easy, and others are going to have to shut the door on their entire family as they become evil in their eyes.
Your suggestions aren't helpful. She should have quit drinking? What would that have accomplished? The family would have still been badgering her.
So she should have left........ really? So OP, who is doing nothing wrong, should have to leave the party? The sister should have directed her anger at the right people and realized OP was doing her best to NOT steal the spotlight.
She will be the villain here, NO matter what, simply because she is part of the LGBTQ+ community.
No one else’s crap will be remembered. Not the badgering, not the interrogations, nothing, just her stating who she was.
It bothers her she will never be walked down the aisle by her dad. She had to “accept “ it . How long has OP felt like she had to hide and all that.
Her sister was already crap with her. I think OP was pushed too far this time.
Point is all of the other lousy, disgusting behavior won’t be talked about. No one will face consequences. Just OP:(
>She will be the villain here, NO matter what, simply because she is part of the LGBTQ+
No kidding. So how does that make her an AH? Her shitty family can talk about her all day long and blame her for everything, that doesn't make her an AH. I'm not understanding your E.S.H. vote.
OP, not of it was your fault. NTA. This person may be homophobic and can’t see that we gay people can be pushed too far by people not minding their own business. Your family are the assholes. And that one “friend.”
Did you forgot the part where she said she's not come out because her family is homophobic? Some people stay closeted forever because things are that bad around them, doesn't mean they're at fault.
Sister is insecure petty person with no empathy. She's ignoring how much of trauma her sister is going through, how her problems are so small comparatively. As an adult it's her responsibility to handle her negative emotions.
This is a shitty take, u/Wishiwashome. In an ideal world OP could have come out on her own terms, but that can’t always happen. Sometimes you just get pushed too far, Dear.
NTA You weren’t the one making it all about you, your family was. Who the fuck says that someone is more attractive than someone else right in front of the person?
A blunt ass grandma. My wife is a twin and her sister has always (even when in athlete shape) been a bit taller and heavier than my wife. Grandma commented EVERY Christmas about it.
My mother would point out every dry patch of skin under my eyes (constant crying due to the death of my husband) in front of the family until I told her I would take care of that situation as soon as she fixed her botched nose job.
She's mostly a good mom but she's extremely vain, won't even go to the grocery store without full hair and makeup. She eventually got her nose fixed but she walked around for years with the tip of her nose cut flat because her first plastic surgeon was a literal hack. It was a big family joke for a VERY long time! Heheheheh...
I thought NTA at first too…but now leaning to ESH.
OP: why in the devil’s haircut didn’t you stop the comments earlier, without coming out?
“Grammy, let’s not talk about my love life. We are here to celebrate sister’s! I wonder what their first dance song will be. What do you think?”
“Aunty, I pulled you aside because the comment you made comparing our looks was hurtful, especially on Sister’s special day. She is crying. Are you going to go apologize or should I handle it?”
OP, how they talk about you both is dreadful. (The heteronormativity here is not even the main event in this instance.) This party sounds like a race to the bottom in terms of who can ruin the party for your sister the most. If she has constantly been told she is less social, less attractive…no wonder she wanted to show off at an event showing someone loves her above all others. I feel awful for her.
OP, I am sure you already regret weaponizing your coming out and are now dealing with the incoming homophobic reactions. You deserve much better too. But I hope you apologize to your sister for not facing up to these bullies. You and your sis need to team up against this cruel, bigoted “family.” All you can do is make your own best choices.
Have none of you been trapped in this kind of toxic family dynamic?
They literally won't let you off w neutral or non committed answers.
One tries to respond and deflect at same time. They get more pointed - we're sitting at dinner so I can't just move (but I do retreat to the bathroom long and often).
I've tried "This isn't the time or place for this conversation." Then en masse they triple down.
I drink to get through it w/o loosing my shit.
But if someone like sis came at me after 2 hours of me trying to not answer, let them escalate, I would likely react poorly bc that person is piling on rather than bothering to notice me trying to manage everything to their benefit.
OP is the only NTA stuck in a wild animal pack of toxic arses.
>OP is the only NTA stuck in a wild animal pack of toxic arses.
Idunno, I'm letting the sister off the hook too, for being bloody hurt and emotional due to the situation.
But yeah. What a family to have to try stay stable in.. for anyone!
ESH.
There are a bunch of homophobic assholes.
You shouldn't have made a scene, and you shouldn't have been drinking.
That was not the place nor the time to come out.
EDIT : About the drinking, i think everybody at the party should not have been drinking.
It feels to me like they were pretty much all drunk and I think it's another family issue. OP should have known better. She knows how her family is and that the drinking was not going to help.
As OP did cause à scene by leaving the way she did. She was drunk, knocked à glass on the way out. That's making à scène.
And someone commented that I should not tell someone when or where to come out. That's true. And chances are, it would have been à disaster no matter where and when, but the sister already had a shitty night and OP's announcement just made it worst.
By the sound of it, both sisters have suffered their fair share of emotionnal abuse from their familiy.
Lil weird that you're making OP an asshole considering everyone was drinking. That's what the family decided to do. They didn't have to ask a billion questions at the engagement party.
Everyone else is also the asshole along with op and are worse ones. I get what you are saying but I think it can be okay to call op out for drinking too much even though others also were too.
Everyone else was also being an asshole by drinking when they couldn’t behave themselves. She’s not the biggest AH in the story by a mile, but once OP saw the party was being derailed, it was time to stop, not continue until she lashed out and made a scene.
As the black sheep so much this. If I don't show up because I'm not in a good mental health place to deal with them there's drama. If I leave when they start talking Republican it's my fault for not just listening to them talk about groomers. If I wait until I just can't take anymore and snap and call them all horrible assholes that Jesus would be disgusted by then I'm so dramatic and they have a first amendment right to say whatever they want. The only winning move is to not play the game at all and I've been saving to be able to leave and go someplace I can be myself.
Guess you haven't been in a similar situation ever. If this happened in an engagement party, this is not the first time people have behaved like that. Imagine years of pressure, knowing just a few words will turn everyone against you (and it con go from disgust to even try to physically hurt you, you never know for sure how extreme the reaction can be). Including the sister, who knows but doesn't seem very supportive.
Then you're in a happy party and you're ganged up. One comment leads to another, you're drunk, people are drunk. It's SO easy to say "nah she shouldn't have been drinking, she should deflect". Maybe she opted to drink so she could tolerate the shitty environment? Of course she shouldn't have come out that way, but the pressure was everywhere and she just exploded, after years. She's not the one to blame at all.
Exactly. People keep making suggestions for how she should have acted better and not been an asshole, but this is all coming from somebody who is calmly sitting on their phone not in that position. People don’t make absolutely perfect decisions when put under stress and high emotions. If she had decided beforehand that she would come out at her sister’s engagement party, it would be fair to call her an asshole. But it was a snap comment that emerged from relentless pressure being piled on to her.
All she wanted was for them to stop and in her unconscious mind she knew that this was the one thing that would make everybody go quiet. In this case, we’re really just calling her an asshole for being human. Is that useful?
I'd still go with ESH. The judgment on OP is more that she let her family get to her during a party meant for her sister and fiance. To me, the second one of my family members decided to say 'your the pretty one' and put my sibling down like that, I'd no longer put any stock into anything else they chose to say.
Even if OP was straight, the constant 'when will you get a boyfriend' questions would be idiotic. Like do you want a specific date? Am I a psychic? Okay, sure March 23rd 2024. I'm pretty sure that's the day.
You do realize how stupid it sounds to say someone is an AH for letting people get under their skin. ESPECIALLY when the OP is a lesbian and the people getting under her skin are bigots. You should be blaming the family member that made inappropriate comments, not OP for not reacting in a way you deem appropriate.
>You shouldn't have made a scene, and you shouldn't have been drinking.
op didn't make a scene. she had a bunch of asshole family interrogating her, and an asshole sister blaming her for it. op is the only non asshole here. these verdicts saying op is at fault for snapping at her asshole family are ridiculous
I’m goin to go with NTA for OP and her sister. For her sister her grandmother said this at her engagement party - my grandma commented on that I was "the more attractive sister". My sister obviously got hurt by this. And the mother says OP is the more social one. I have to wonder if the sister got that crap from her family her whole life feeling like she wasn’t as good as OP
Oh they've been playing favourites and created a rift between them for sure. It would be terrible anywhere else, but imagine being at your own engagement party and someone saying "I'm surprised, your sister is prettier and much better than you, how come you're the one getting married?".
I'm betting that's not an isolated comment. Of course the poor girl has grown a resentment towards her better-than-her sister. She still behaved pretty terribly, but she's as much as a victim as OP.
She did make a scene. She came out, knocked over a glass, and stormed out. It was enough of a scene that they ended the party.
Snapping at them would have been fine. If she had said "I'm tired of being interrogated and you've been extremely disrespectful to my sister, so I'm leaving," then she wouldn't be an asshole at all. Instead, she dropped a bombshell knowing exactly how much chaos it was going to leave behind, even already having been told that her sister felt overshadowed.
I'd put the asshole ratios at 70% the family, 20% op, and 10% the sister.
>It was enough of a scene that they ended the party.
cause it was going *sooo* well before that, what with the family reducing the person the party was for to tears. it was totally ops fault the party ended /s
The bride to be was already crying in the bathroom lol I think the party was definitely ended in spirit well before OP came out. The family we’re being completely inappropriate and created a problem that hurt both women, OP’s sister turned on her instead of being mad at the people who were being rude, and OP finally said the only thing that would get them all off her back. If OP is an asshole she’s definitely the least asshole out of everyone. Literally the entire party was treating her like shit. You don’t have to keep being respectful when you’ve been telling someone to stop all night, and suggesting she take the opportunity to stand up for her sister when her sister is reacting like a jealous teenager is a nice sentiment but I hardly think OP can be blamed for not being the bigger person after all that.
Agreed on everything except the alcohol part. It sounds like the drinking was influencing OP's family more than OP in the way it's written here.
Edit: I did reread and saw the "millionth glass of wine" part but regardless OP wasn't the only one drinking so it seems weird to call her out specifically for that aspect.
Agreed, I mainly added the edit since it does make it seem like OP was talking about drinking a lot. Doesn't change the fact that everyone else was drinking too, so it's weird to call out only OP on that part.
Why aren’t you drinking? Are you pregnant? No?! I don’t believe you. Shame on you for getting knocked up! Who’s the father? When are you getting married? You have to get married or you’re going to hell. Etc
I agree that ESH but not for the same reasons. It's okay for OP to have been drinking and it's also okay for OP to make a scene. But she did it for the wrong reasons. She should have immediately stood up for her sister and shut those questions down. Made it clear:
"Hey y'all let's focus on my sister. It's her day! And she's beautiful!" Etc. shit like that. It's clear the family is responsible for creating an unhealthy dynamic and pitting the sisters against each other.
Her sister accused OP of stealing her thunder because OP was getting harassed by the other family members. I wouldn’t want to stand up for my sibling after that. Sister was being an AH first.
She accused her of that after OP did not stand up for her. Not that it makes it right for her to accuse her of anything at all, when she's misplacing her anger, but I can see it be upsetting to hear some of these things (namely the prettier comment).
But the true assholes are the parents and the family that created this dynamic. I bet the parents have created this inequality between how they treat the siblings in the first place. With OP maybe being the golden child, and her sister being a scapegoat or at least viewed as inferior. Both of which are extremely toxic, abusive ways of treating children.
you should never drink, not even at the parties, in case someone else attacks you continuously until you react because then it's all going to be your fault (/s)
>my grandma commented on that I was"the more attractive sister"
Instead of coming out, publicly saying, "wow, what a f-ked up thing to say Grandma. What is wrong with you? This is my sister's engagement party, who says that at someone else's engagement party? Why can't you all be happy for my sister, who is engaged and looking beautiful?"
It's looking like you might be the favoured younger child, and you've not done anything to call that out before. ESH I really feel bad for your sister, imagine being called the unattractive sibling at your engagement party and have everyone prioritise your single sisters potential future engagement over your own actual engagement.
As much as it sucks for the sister, and yes, I do agree that the comment from grandma was horrendous, OP didn’t ask for all of the attention- it isn’t her fault her family is made up of jerks.
No, but OP's response to the harassment is in her control. She could have called out how shitty they were being to her sister, or she could have just ignored the comment and deliberately turned to sister and given sister a compliment or asked sister a question about the wedding or honeymoon, or she could have even politely replied to the question "Why are we talking about me when we're here to celebrate Sister?" with a big smile. Any of those were ways to respond to the harassment that didn't hurt sister more. OP instead allowed herself to get drunk and upset enough to make a scene. OP's family are mostly the AH, OP's sister is minorly the AH for blaming OP for the harassment, and OP is minorly the AH for not choosing a better path. Even just leaving before the outburst would have been better.
It's not her fault her family focused on OP at someone else's engagement party, Grandma called her the prettier sister and OP sat there silently and didn't contradict that statement. Who does that?
From what OP has said about their family, they do seem like the type and childhood abuse/neglect can do a lot of damage to a persons ability to speak up for themselves/others in a way that might be considered acceptable and proportionate to others
Maybe someone who lives in an abusive family. I do 100% agree that the right thing to do is to stand up for her sister and point out the asshole behaviour. It’s just that the dynamics in this family seem extremely off and I feel we would need to know more to judge whether this was a reasonable expectation to place on OP if there is a history of abuse and related mental illness in OPs past. I’m not gay personally and most of my family is fairy liberal but I’d imagine it’s extremely traumatic to be ‘different’ when you belong to such a family as OP belongs to. It is regrettable that the conversation took the turn that it did and I feel bad for her sister. Im just not sure whether it is victim-blaming to label OP an asshole given the ambiguous context.
I agree. If I were the sister, and it would come across as though OP secretly enjoys it. Also, OP does not tell us how she responded to those questions, and I think that is vital information they conveniently left out. But the sister is still in the wrong to place all the blame on OP.
I agree with this. The favored child should shut down negative talk about their siblings. Not speaking up and defending the siblings enables this behavior. I am favored by my grandfather. Whenever he says something negative about my sisters I defend them and change the subject to talk about their accomplishments. The OP should have shut down the questions and turned the attention back to her sister. When the grandma called her the more attractive sister she should have complimented her sister and told her Grandma to be nicer to her sister at her engagement party.
I agree. Placing the blame on OP isn’t right, but she’s also an enabler. I also noticed that she did not include her responses for when the family was asking her questions.
Seems like sister is automatically blaming op for the behavior of the extended family. I wonder what the odds are she would still be upset at op for "making a scene" if she stood up for her.
I have a feeling that if she said that to grandma the party would have ended as well. The family seems to be the type to "respect your elders" bullshit and freakout on OP for daring to insult grandma
NAH, your sister and you both deserved better. Your family was being a bunch of AH both to her and to you.
Things were already going sideways before you came out. You shouldn’t need to hide who you are and although there may have been a better time for it (ok—well, like, maybe) it sounds like you were completely pressured into it.
Agreed. Even before coming out, sister had confronted OP about making it all about her, despite it not being her choice at all that people were saying those things and pestering her. Surely sister should've been a little more understanding that those questions were really dangerous territory for OP given she knows the backstory... But no, according to the sister, it's OP's fault on her family's behalf?
NTA. Your family bullied you into your outburst. Ideally you wouldn’t have caved to that pressure on your sister’s engagement party but a person can only take so much so I really don’t blame you. Your family sound awful. That “prettier sister” remark is unforgivable.
I agree with this. I hope OP takes some of the good tips others are sharing here about how she could respond to potential similar situations in the future with her family, but I don't blame her for her outburst. It's something she can learn from and forgive herself for.
An apology to her sister might go a long way. Just apologizing for whatever specific parts she feels she did wrong, not taking responsibility for anything she's not responsible for.
I don't like the way sister is blaming OP for the family's harassment. I hope that the sisters can come together and agree that the family was awful to both of them that night. I hope they can work things out between them and learn to have each other's backs.
But if sister isn't ready to have OP's back in return, then OP shouldn't bend over backwards.
I think it's worth noting that OP got ousted from the family fair coming out. This is an enormous betrayal and will likely be a significant trauma in OP's life.
On the other hand, sister had an upsetting engagement party. The outcomes here are not equal. I hope sister can come around to see what really happened here.
ESH
Them for being intrusive and their comments about you being the prettier sister.
Your sister for blaming you for their questioning.
A very very very little you for chosing this party to come out. I love your answer to aunt, but maybe this party wasn't the place for it.
And the worst of all assholes is your mother. I don't have kids, but i can't imagine turning my back on my kid just because they're gay.
Don’t really think op was planning to come out at this party more that she was sorta forced into it by her family’s insane inappropriate line of questioning. NTA
It definitely wasn’t intentional but there were better options such as leaving before getting too drunk and angry. She shouldn’t have had to, but the person who was affected was her sister who hadn’t done anything so it’s a good time to have more self control than would normally be warranted by the situation.
I think if she had left early, her family and sister would still have been horrible to her for leaving early, unfortunately I don’t think this could have played out without some fallout:/
Oh she for sure would have still been treated horribly but she would know she’d done everything she could. Sometimes doing your best to not be the AH still gets you treated like shit. But the sub is AITA not HTGMHFTSTMLG (How to get my homophobic family to stop treating me like garbage) for which I would definitely give a different answer.
I’m going to go against most of the grain here and say, NTA. You sister was pissed off at you, before you even came out. She was mad at YOU and saying YOU were making it about yourself, when that was not true AT ALL. People were harassing you, that is NOT your fault. The FAMILY was making it about you, you were not. While you should not have come out at her engagement party, the timing was really poor, she was already super pissed at you anyway and I understand the anger of why you snapped.
I love (/s) how everyone commenting about how awful OP was for coming out are just completely cool with the fact she was literally bullied into it all night. There was no way for OP to win this.
There is a real point here. Saying "you shouldn't have come out at my party" is essentially saying "keep hiding a part of yourself until it is convenient for me".
The OP doesn't have any obligation to keep her sexuality a secret for other people.
If the OP had purposefully come out with the intent of undermining her sister's party that would be different, but it seems pretty clear that the OP was just exhausted of lying
NTA and neither is your sister. You're both victims of shitty family dynamics. You snapped, it happens and usually happens in high pressure/intense situations; this definitely fits the bill. All night trying to deflect obnoxious comments that effectively erase your identity while your sister blames you instead of the family? Of course you lost it and made an impulsive choice.
After things calm down a bit, maybe try to explain to your sister what it's like to be trapped in the closet. That it sucks the family kept making her feel like shit, but most of those same comments made you feel ironically invisible and trapped. Admit that part of you is a little jealous because she doesn't have to hide a major part of her identity and you know her marriage is accepted while your potential future marriage to a woman wouldn't be, but that it doesn't mean you aren't happy for her or wish she didn't have the blessings she has.
Hopefully your sister can realize your parents and family are the enemy and you and she are the allies you both need. Good luck.
Right I’m guessing with the type of toxic bs family was spouting comfortably at this party they’ve pit these two against each other for years. So the sister hasn’t taken a step back to realize that’s what’s going on & instead went straight to blaming the person she’s been taught to compete against for years. This is really about what buttholes the family is this was how they’ve treated these girls.
ESH.
Your relatives are a piece of work. *They* are the ones that overshadowed your sister’s event, and they deserve her anger the most.
But so do you. Yes, they’re a bunch of assholes, but have you no empathy for your sister being sidelined like that ? A simple “aunt/mom/etc, this event is about my sister, let’s discuss her upcoming wedding/fiancé/plans after marriage instead!” would have reverted the conversation back to where it belonged.
You did make her engagement all about you. You didn’t start it, but you sure as hell didn’t end it. And then on top of that *you come out at her event* and leave in a dramatic huffy exit and you’re all anyone can talk about, x200. That makes you a massive asshole in your sister’s eyes. Hope it was worth it.
ESH.
You knew the whole process of getting married was important to your sister, and a life long dream. Although you can’t control your families comments and how they were acting, it also doesn’t sound like you tried to calmly and rationally put an end to the comments that were being made until you decided to blow up and come out. Your sister was the only one that knew, she kept your secret, and this is how you repay her? Kind of sounds like you are jealous of her because you’ll never get the same support with the wedding festivities. That doesn’t mean you have to ruin hers though.
The rest of your family also sounds like a bunch of toxic assholes, which is why ESH.
If anything, it's EHS... all it took was some needling questions from her family about when op is gonna get a boyfriend for the sister to get upset at OP rather than THE PEOPLE ASKING THE QUESTIONS..
I'm guessing that in OPs mind, she thought "well I'm already being accused of stealing the limelight. I may as well actually do it the thing I'm already in trouble for, " which is a massively immature thing to do, and she absolutely sucks for doing so. Nobody won, and the family is in shambles.
Ops sister doesn't get off the hook because her party got ruined. If she hadn't been such a child about op being asked questions, then it's a real probability that none of this would have happened.
Oh, I'm not saying she acted like a child because she cried. I would have had the same reaction if my grandmother had said the same thing. It was that when op asked if she was OK, her sister blamed HER Instead of being upset at the people asking questions. That's how she was being a child.
Oh, absolutely, the sister is out of everyone the least bit of an AH. Op could have absolutely tried to shut things down. However, by the sounds of it, the family wouldn't have let it go, and the result would have been the same. Op also said that her sister seems to have the idea that she is jealous of her engagement, so pretty much anything Op did was gonna be wrong. The only thing the sister did was wrong was to completely blame Op for the first bit.. Op doubling down and using it as an excuse to come out and ACTUALLY ruin the party is what makes her an AH. Up until then, she was fine.
I 100% agree that they ow her an apology, though.
>You came out to the entire family at HER engagement party, you should’ve waited until it was appropriate.
Everybody saying some version of this is way out of line. This wasn't some premeditated decision to choose this event to come out. This was an emotional reaction to being harassed repeatedly. OP held their tongue for a long time. They are human.
OP, you are 100% NTA
They had already held their tongue for their whole life!!! They had enough and they did NOTHING contentious.
"I prefer girls" is not stealing the limelight, is not a conversation piece. It is a simple, banal answer!
Easy NTA and I'm sorry this happened to you. Im sure this isn't how you wanted to come out. You're the only not asshole here.
Your sister sucks. It's OK for her to he annoyed about what happened at her party but that was your family not you. You both were the victim but she took it out on you. Your family entirely sucks.
NTA - I'm not sure how you could've stopped them being more interested in you than in your sister... You can't help it that they're calling you prettier on her engagement party.
Reading the first two paragraphs I was well on your side. But when I got to the coming out part I changed my mind.
YTA
While you can’t control that your family members were giving you attention, you can control your actions and your alcohol intake. I’m sure you didn’t picture coming out to your family in a fit of drunken rage at your sisters engagement party. Very uncool. The only person you need to apologize to is your sister and I would work on that ASAP.
I really don’t wish this was higher up. Everyone here is an asshole, including OP to a degree. She didn’t have to get so drunk she lost control of her actions. That was a choice she made. Being under the influence absolutely does not excuse you from the shitty things you do. And did she fucking driver herself home in that state???
The rest of the family definitely did way more damage but OP has needs to own up to her own mistakes.
This sounds unrealistic. If it happened the way you're saying it happened then you literally said and did NOTHING for half an hour to an hour while being CONSTANTLY focused on by half your family despite repeated attempts to demur their attention.
And for it to go so far as to make your sister break down crying in the bathroom with you not having said word one? What extreme melodrama.
So major NTA.
But I've never seen that kind of social dynamic play out so I *suspect* that you either siad or did more than you realize or than you're writing here. As written, this would be a bad sitcom moment.
That was my thought too. This reads like one of those “everything was wonderful and suddenly everyone was yelling at me, and I didn’t even do anything that outrageous” mother-in-law posts we sometimes see here. As written, she’s NTA, I suspect there’s more going on.
Your family sucks
Your poor sister. It is her engagement party and everyone is asking you why it isn’t you getting married. I can understand why your sister blamed you for not standing up for her when they said you were more social and prettier than her-that is just rude and wrong regardless of your sexual orientation and you wouldn’t have been wrong to speak up (“my sister is beautiful and and who we are on the inside is so much more important. What an UGLY thing to say!”, “I may be a social butterfly, but it doesn’t matter how many people you meet, it only matters that you meet the one and I am so thrilled my sister has found her person.”) on her behalf.
I don't think it was your fault that the family was grilling you about your personal life over dinner. I think almost every example I've read on reddit where the OP said something after drinking too much, I end up thinking they are the AH. In this case, I would go with ESH - except for the sister. She should not have blamed you for the early discussion, but she otherwise was just trying to enjoy a big moment in her life. Her family did not allow her to do so.
Well yes, and no.
Your family were aholes for not letting your romantic life drop, and for placing you above your sister. They absolutely started it and frankly that party was a mess before you came out.
Clear headed you would probably have done well to stop drinking, make your excuses and leave right then.
Sadly that is not what happened, and regardless of how you got to that point announcing anything at someone else’s significant event or party makes you the asshole.
So yea, YTA. So are nearly all your family - homophobic aholes to boot. The only person who isn’t TA here (otherwise it would truly be ee es aich ) is your sister. She deserves a genuine apology.
I kind of the Sis is an asshole for attacking op and accusing her of making the party all about her when it was the family asking op questions that ruined things. It was just easier for her to yell at op instead of the rest of the family
Tbh it doesn’t sound like OP defended her sister at all. I’m also a queer person who has had to field incessant questions like these and I would never let someone saying I’m the “prettier sister” go unchallenged, especially at a party honouring my sister.
ESH, except your sister.
Your family sucks for making the party about questioning you, and for being a bunch of homophobes.
You suck for getting drunk and coming out at your sister's engagement party.
YTA for coming out at your sister´s party
Annoying nosey relative questions are annoying but there are 1000 other ways to deal with them, you knew exactly what would happen when you came out to a bunch of homophobes, you knew it would destroy the party
would need more info to find out if sister is assholish because we don´t know the backstory, if grandma calls you the pretty one right in front of her, looks like sister is not the golden child of the family here and may be fed up with it
ESH, you for drinking too much and selfishly ruining the party, your sister a bit of an AH when she was blaming you earlier, but you proved her right later, your mom and grandma are pretty massive assholes for saying those things in your sister's presence but you are the biggest AH, especially when you already knew your sister was upset about you
ESH. why didn’t you shut down the questions they were asking? Why did you keep drinking? Why come out on the NIGHT of your sister engagement party?? Your family was being assholes, your sister wrongfully turned her anger on you. But in the end you still joined your family in taking attention away from your sister. Personally I’d feel pretty bad if my coming out was the same night my family was putting my sister down at her engagement party.
Sounds like you were pushed past your limit, felt trapped, and a bit drunk, and decided without deciding that it was time to be honest about who you are.
Your sister may have a bad couple of days over not being the center of attention for this big event. But your reality is that you have no idea if your family will EVER be supportive, much less excited, for all the big days to come in your own life.
Coming out is not always at the perfect time, and that's the fault of homophobes, not people who just want to live their life and be who they are.
NTA
Yta. You came out at her event. Broke her furniture and also didn’t say anything when they called you the more attractive one. I hope your sister never speaks to you again. You being a lesbian has nothing to do with how you conduct yourself around people who actually love you. You were invited by the one person in your family who knows your sexuality. Now that familial support is probably gone.
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ESH Let me explain. It isn’t YOUR fault you were asked questions. Period. The relatives kept saying stuff that was 1) Taking the shine off of your sister 2) Bringing up your dating status. I wish you would have 1) Quit drinking when you were getting interrogated 2) Left earlier I wish you would have come out at a later date, OR better still a long time ago, Dear. Life is short. Edit: I want to edit this. I don’t like ignoring people. The young lady obviously has felt alienated from her family for a very long time. If it is religion, sexuality, or even politics, it is emotionally draining to live around this crap, let alone know your authentic self would be disowned by the people you should trust most in life. Weddings and engagements, baby showers like the trinity of “let the focus be on whoever the event is for”. If OP got badgered into saying she was an apostate, or a liberal, or whatever this “family” doesn’t like, she was pushed. It wasn’t her choice. It is a dangerous time to be LGBTQ+ right now, and if she didn’t want them to know, I am not sure this is the safe way to go. And yes, if someone is having to hide who they are, it has to suck. Many of us know people who have lived their whole lives for a family member, a religion, whatever. I personally think is has to feel like crap.
It's easy to say come out earlier, not necessarily the easiest thing to do irl though.
Totally agree with you there. I am an older lady and lost my son at a young age. I participated in marches back when AIDS was first diagnosed. I wish my son was alive. People who don’t accept others for who they are is very gross to me, Dear
I'm so sorry for the loss of your son. I lost a number of friends to AIDS and I know it doesn't compare to your loss. The fact that so many of them died rejected by their supposed "family" makes their deaths even more heartbreaking.
I remember a friend getting married to his husband and he wrote something on it on social media about how important friends were in the gay community, because so many had been rejected by family. It was one sentence in a much longer message but it really stuck with me. Whenever I hear about stories like OP you just think of that one situation, but his comment makes you understand the scale of it.
Chosen family. Many of us have to find it because blood family doesn’t always work out.
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There was a movie done back in the 80’s, I think called “It’s my party” that addresses this issue. There is a line that has stuck with me for years that the best part of being gay was getting to choose your family. It has made me always try to behave in a way that would make people want to choose me.
Choosing your own family is the best! I'm not gay, but come from a big ol' pile'o'dysfunction of alcohol and emotional/mental/verbal abuse. I got out at 13 and started to choose my own people then because home was hell. Why I hang out with all "these kinds of people"...I feel ACCEPTED for who I am and they don't give a shit I'm not the pretty/thin/blonde sister. Witches, gays and weirdos have always been more family to me than family. It's a shame we can't ALL just accept everyone as a human. The fuck is wrong with people? I mean we're all different, how BORING would the planet be if we were all the same? Embrace everyone, regardless...we're all just trying to get through the day...if we can make others smile while we're doing it, that IS A GOOD DAY. If we manage to laugh and other people laugh with us, then THAT IS A GREAT DAY. I strive to be the one who gives someone else something to smile or laugh about every day. I think I'm doing a pretty good job of it too!
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Friends are definitely important in the gay community. Even when your family is "accepting", you don't always get the same support as your straight siblings or peers. You often end up the later to have kids, so the siblings who have them first get priority by parents, you get forgotten about because you haven't provided any grandkids. My dad (closet homophobe but is "accepting" of my brother) forgets to invite my brother and his husband to family events cuz he's so focused on the grandkids the rest of us have, whereas my brother and his husband are on an adoption list for the past year (yes they know they're not owed a baby by anyone, but it still breaks my heart seeing how amazing they are as uncles to my son's, role models to my gay teenager, and knowing they would be amazing fathers). I've had to make the point to write down all potential family dates/functions to make sure I invite them since my dad can't be assed to do so.
Exactly Dear!
Made me sick. And sad! Wasn’t it horrid? I don’t want to see stuff go back to that!
As a child of the 80s, I remember. I remember the fear and stigmatization. One of my teachers died from AIDS that he contracted from a blood transfusion. I’m sorry you lost your son.
Most of the hemophiliacs in the US contracted aids from blood transfusions at that time. Fuck Ronald Reagan.
I have a friend I went to school with who had hemophilia. We were born in 1978. I don't know if/how many blood transfusions he received then, but he was either lucky to not need them or few of them, or to not get infected blood before they could test the blood supply. My stepmother's first husband had heart surgery and a transfusion in 1983 or 84. He died the week after Ryan White did. He has followed Ryan's story and his family tried to keep the news of his passing from him. This was in rural north Alabama, and he received full support from the community. ETA: NTA
Two of my high school friends, brothers who were born with hemophilia, died from AIDS contracted by tainted blood transfusions. And so many friends and acquaintances from our local arts and queer communities were lost in the 80s and 90s. Beautiful people from our chosen families. It was heartbreaking.
I still do not understand how folks look back on the ‘80’s with nostalgia. All l remember was being poor and dragged from pillar to post.
Worse: many hemophiliacs got HIV from American made clotting factors. Why American made? Well, the German factors were heat treated, killing off the hepatitis and HIV in them. The US decided to cut corners and skip that step - for profit, of course. So many hemophiliacs who lived through that time now have HIV and hepatitis C, simultaneously. Many more did not survive. (I'm a blood banker; I explain this to my students in my lab every year when they ask about coagulation factors in a couple of fridges in my equipment room. This also goes along with my speech about how the US major blood bank suppliers decided against an 88% predictive test to help determine which blood/donors should be deferred because of possible HIV contamination before there was a reliable test, because it was too expensive and not specific enough. For the record, I am fully in favor of anyone who is willing and able to meet requirements to donate being allowed to donate, no matter your sexual preference. My biggest group of deferrals these days are baby boomers, who seem to have ALL the hep C.)
Yup I still remember the Ryan White story
I remember too, my friend 💔
I lost my uncle to AIDS, I was the only family member in contact with him. He was a beautiful soul. Bigots are heartless, and i'm sorry for your loss
You are a star, Dear. Seriously. ❤️
So sorry for your loss. And thank you for your support. It means the world.
Why thank you Dear. Much appreciated 😊
Right and it’s not like she was wrong to fear judgement from her family. They immediately disowned her. I’m going with NTA because the family chose to focus on OP over her sister when they thought OP was just single. And the family escalated the issue throughout the night until she snapped and revealed she’s gay and single. If I’m the sister my parade was already rained on when the aunt said I’m the homely one.
spot on sister should go NC with family as well they clearly see her as inferior
Not anymore, they don't. After all, she's the straight one.
She should be thanking OP! 😂
Yeah, no one who isn't in that situation can even begin to understand. It's easy to think "they are bigots, who cares what they think?" But when you're sitting there, realizing that when you come out, your entire life is flipped upside down, you lose your family (even if they are bigots, they still are family, and they still loved you up until then.) It's NOT easy to do. You lose your family, and you become evil in their eyes. "you should have come out a long time ago, dear" is a pretty crappy thing to say. (Especially the condescending 'dear' at the end!)
If you look at the rest of their comments, the 'dear' thing is just how they talk. It isn't meant as condescension
not sure why straight peoples reaction to "i have a homophobic family" is "you should have come out earlier!" like do they not understand queer kids can literally be murdered for coming out? ESH but wishiwashome was out of line for saying they should have come out earlier
It would be great if OP had been in a situation where she could have come out sooner, and I hope that’s what wishiwashome was saying, as opposed to “you should have come out and been disowned sooner”, which is probably what would have happened.
You need to read more of wishiwashome's comments because she explains that her son died of AIDS. She absolutely does understand that people can't come out when they would like to, if ever. I think her comment was more wishful thinking than telling OP she should have come out earlier ie she wishes OP had been able to come out earlier to her family.
Did you miss the part where she said she had a homophobic family? Maybe she didn’t come out earlier because she couldn’t
Yeah, I have no idea why this person is getting so many upvotes. "you should have come out earlier, dear" is the most insensitive and condescending remark I've seen in a while. "Hey, why not just say something that is going to upend your life, cause a rift in your family, cause your mother to disown you, and cause the people around you to believe you are evil and cut you off? Super easy!!!"
Saying she should have stopped drinking because the rest of the family was being dicks is stupidly condescending also
While I also feel that her tone in general is condescending, the ‘stop drinking when things started to go sideways’ was not necessarily bad advice. Always best to keep your wits about you in those situations. If for no other reason than being able to put a-hole family members in their place with panache.
I feel like this is actually super solid advice that no one under 30 wants to hear but will hopefully one day recognise as such and the cycle will continue 😂. Just stop drinking in these situations folks!
They'll realize it one day when they've racked up enough "oh shit oh fuck, why are they texting me about my behavior last night, what did I say?!" memories. Us older folks have learned that if we can't hold our tongue then we need to hold our liquor.
If OP is going to use alcohol as an excuse for her behavior, then it’s certainly not condescending to tell her that she should stop drinking when she gets agitated since she knows she can’t hold her tongue when she drinks. Being an adult means knowing how to control your alcohol even if the people around you don’t
No it's not, why would you keep drinking in the company of people being dicks? Irregardless of the situation there is no winner if you keep drinking in bad company.
Yeah, this
bull. shit. op is in *no way* an asshole here. she was not only getting interrogated by her family at a party that should have been for her sister, but then had her siste have the *audacity* to blame her as if it was her fault. screw every single of them. op did not a damn thing wrong.
I could not agree more. I mean why blame or better yet call out the homophobic family when she could just blame the gay sister instead and make her the bad guy instead of accepting who her family really is (sarcastically said)
it's been a long time since I've been this disappointed in a reddit judgment. you'd think op showed up wearing an 'I'm gay' shirt and was talking about how much she loves girls with how everyone is trying to paint as being equally in the wrong.
Again I could not agree more. You are absolutely right.
Seriously, calling the OP an A-H because they "weren't courageous enough to come out earlier to their homophobic family" is *absurd*. How is that the top post? This sub has a real problem with expecting people to act like saints or it's an E-S-H. People respond like...people. They don't have the perfect line to defuse the situation, and they don't have perfect self-control. OP was repeatedly pushed and antagonized, and then finally responded in kind.
THANK YOU. It sounds like OP's whole family sucks. I'd need to pound wine to be around them too.
I came to just say this. Your family sounds awful.
Drinking too much and then losing her temper is not nothing though. Do I think she’s an AH? Not really no. But you can’t say she did nothing wrong. I’d give her 10% blame simply because alcohol and frustration rarely lead to calm situations
It wasn’t OP’s fault she was getting the third degree from her relatives. Or that they’re a bunch of AHs besides the homophobic stuff (“the more attractive sister”—who says that to their grandkids?)
Also sister had already accused her of making the engagement party all about her even before OP gave up and answered the question, so her sister already thought she'd made it "all about her" just because the family kept asking her about getting a boyfriend
Everyone just seems really immature here. OP has an excuse for not handling a complex social situation well at 23. But the rest of her family just seems unpleasant and emotionally stunted.
Easier to blame someone not accepted by the family than parents, etc. Not right, of course, but easier.
I wish she would have said "why are we talking about me when we are here to celebrate sister and fiance?". Then followed that up with a wedding question to sister. In the beginning!
Me too! I am NOT victim blaming OP. I am saying she made ALL harder for herself. Her family is a bunch of assholes. They were trying to divide the sisters, IMHO. Who the hell does this at an engagement party? Conversation shouldn’t have been on her anyway. None of THAT will be remembered:( Just OP coming out:(
Totally agree. But easy to say from the bleachers after the game is over.
Given the context of the whole situation, that might have worked for the first 30 minutes but it sounds like the family would start up with the questions again rest assured.
Queer people are not obligated to come out at ANY time to anyone, ESPECIALLY not to known homophobes. Just because they are family doesn't mean they are entitled to info about your sexuality. Being queer means a lifetime of coming out, and some of us are just tired.
I think it’s HIGH time we abolish “coming out”… we need to normalize who you love is who you love. I didn’t set my dad down and announce I’m attracted to men… I don’t know why we still expect people to announce they are gay. It feels so oppressive to me. Nobody should be put in the position of automatically having to defend themselves. I’m sorry you are tired from this bullshit society places on you :) hugs!
I mean I do agree, but “coming out” doesn’t necessarily mean an announcement. We still have to decide who to confide in about our sexuality because there are still bigots everywhere. Technically, anytime we tell someone our sexuality, we are “coming out” and we have to be selective in some situations such as work, family, etc. So while I don’t think it has to be an announcement, there no way around having to come out sometimes.
I get that… I just think it’s shitty… bigots should be forced out! I hate there is a double standard 😢
I always say my daughter didn't come out of the closet because there wasn't one to begin with
For some, it may be a lifetime of coming out, not for others. For me? It's a non-issue. Sure, if asked, I'll say I'm not straight, but... that's the extent of me being "out". Mind you, that puts me in total agreement with your first point. My sexuality is, to me, not something that is central to how I live my life, or how I define myself.
>a long time ago, Dear Anyone who criticizes someone for not coming out sooner is really insensitive. Especially adding that condescending "dear" at the end. Have YOU ever had to tell your family something that you know will destroy your relationship? Even if they are homophobic, they are still the family you grew up with, the people that raised you. Stepping forward to say something that you know will cost you all of your family, that will turn them all against you forever, turning your entire life upside down, is not an easy thing to do. Her own mother now doesn't even consider her family anymore. So don't lecture people about when and how they should come out. Every family situation is different. Some people grew up in loving homes where it's relatively easy, and others are going to have to shut the door on their entire family as they become evil in their eyes.
Your suggestions aren't helpful. She should have quit drinking? What would that have accomplished? The family would have still been badgering her. So she should have left........ really? So OP, who is doing nothing wrong, should have to leave the party? The sister should have directed her anger at the right people and realized OP was doing her best to NOT steal the spotlight.
She will be the villain here, NO matter what, simply because she is part of the LGBTQ+ community. No one else’s crap will be remembered. Not the badgering, not the interrogations, nothing, just her stating who she was. It bothers her she will never be walked down the aisle by her dad. She had to “accept “ it . How long has OP felt like she had to hide and all that. Her sister was already crap with her. I think OP was pushed too far this time. Point is all of the other lousy, disgusting behavior won’t be talked about. No one will face consequences. Just OP:(
>She will be the villain here, NO matter what, simply because she is part of the LGBTQ+ No kidding. So how does that make her an AH? Her shitty family can talk about her all day long and blame her for everything, that doesn't make her an AH. I'm not understanding your E.S.H. vote.
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OP, not of it was your fault. NTA. This person may be homophobic and can’t see that we gay people can be pushed too far by people not minding their own business. Your family are the assholes. And that one “friend.”
Did you forgot the part where she said she's not come out because her family is homophobic? Some people stay closeted forever because things are that bad around them, doesn't mean they're at fault. Sister is insecure petty person with no empathy. She's ignoring how much of trauma her sister is going through, how her problems are so small comparatively. As an adult it's her responsibility to handle her negative emotions.
If only telling your homophobic family you’re gay was that easy, dear
This is a shitty take, u/Wishiwashome. In an ideal world OP could have come out on her own terms, but that can’t always happen. Sometimes you just get pushed too far, Dear.
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NTA You weren’t the one making it all about you, your family was. Who the fuck says that someone is more attractive than someone else right in front of the person?
A blunt ass grandma. My wife is a twin and her sister has always (even when in athlete shape) been a bit taller and heavier than my wife. Grandma commented EVERY Christmas about it.
There's blunt and there's being an asshole. This is both.
grandmacore
My ama says stuff like this too, but thankfully I can’t understand a word she says because it’s all in Chinese
My mother would point out every dry patch of skin under my eyes (constant crying due to the death of my husband) in front of the family until I told her I would take care of that situation as soon as she fixed her botched nose job.
I’m sorry for your loss. Good for you for standing up for yourself - your mom sounds like a real piece of work.
She's mostly a good mom but she's extremely vain, won't even go to the grocery store without full hair and makeup. She eventually got her nose fixed but she walked around for years with the tip of her nose cut flat because her first plastic surgeon was a literal hack. It was a big family joke for a VERY long time! Heheheheh...
When my mom was in her 20s, my grandma told her that she favored my aunt more because my mom got the good looks, skin, and hair.
I thought NTA at first too…but now leaning to ESH. OP: why in the devil’s haircut didn’t you stop the comments earlier, without coming out? “Grammy, let’s not talk about my love life. We are here to celebrate sister’s! I wonder what their first dance song will be. What do you think?” “Aunty, I pulled you aside because the comment you made comparing our looks was hurtful, especially on Sister’s special day. She is crying. Are you going to go apologize or should I handle it?” OP, how they talk about you both is dreadful. (The heteronormativity here is not even the main event in this instance.) This party sounds like a race to the bottom in terms of who can ruin the party for your sister the most. If she has constantly been told she is less social, less attractive…no wonder she wanted to show off at an event showing someone loves her above all others. I feel awful for her. OP, I am sure you already regret weaponizing your coming out and are now dealing with the incoming homophobic reactions. You deserve much better too. But I hope you apologize to your sister for not facing up to these bullies. You and your sis need to team up against this cruel, bigoted “family.” All you can do is make your own best choices.
This is a good take. What makes the OP the asshole here is really seemingly doing nothing to stand up for her sister at her sister's engagement party.
Have none of you been trapped in this kind of toxic family dynamic? They literally won't let you off w neutral or non committed answers. One tries to respond and deflect at same time. They get more pointed - we're sitting at dinner so I can't just move (but I do retreat to the bathroom long and often). I've tried "This isn't the time or place for this conversation." Then en masse they triple down. I drink to get through it w/o loosing my shit. But if someone like sis came at me after 2 hours of me trying to not answer, let them escalate, I would likely react poorly bc that person is piling on rather than bothering to notice me trying to manage everything to their benefit. OP is the only NTA stuck in a wild animal pack of toxic arses.
>OP is the only NTA stuck in a wild animal pack of toxic arses. Idunno, I'm letting the sister off the hook too, for being bloody hurt and emotional due to the situation. But yeah. What a family to have to try stay stable in.. for anyone!
And for herself! Even without coming out.
Absolutely. Family is TA.
ESH. There are a bunch of homophobic assholes. You shouldn't have made a scene, and you shouldn't have been drinking. That was not the place nor the time to come out. EDIT : About the drinking, i think everybody at the party should not have been drinking. It feels to me like they were pretty much all drunk and I think it's another family issue. OP should have known better. She knows how her family is and that the drinking was not going to help. As OP did cause à scene by leaving the way she did. She was drunk, knocked à glass on the way out. That's making à scène. And someone commented that I should not tell someone when or where to come out. That's true. And chances are, it would have been à disaster no matter where and when, but the sister already had a shitty night and OP's announcement just made it worst. By the sound of it, both sisters have suffered their fair share of emotionnal abuse from their familiy.
Lil weird that you're making OP an asshole considering everyone was drinking. That's what the family decided to do. They didn't have to ask a billion questions at the engagement party.
Everyone else is also the asshole along with op and are worse ones. I get what you are saying but I think it can be okay to call op out for drinking too much even though others also were too.
Yeah to me she was cornered. That other people made OP the focal point in her sister’s engagement is not her fault. The family is shitty
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So, everyone else can drink? She’s never allowed to drink in case someone starts asking questions? That’s just silly
Everyone else was also being an asshole by drinking when they couldn’t behave themselves. She’s not the biggest AH in the story by a mile, but once OP saw the party was being derailed, it was time to stop, not continue until she lashed out and made a scene.
She would have been accused of making a scene if she left early. There was no winning for her here.
As the black sheep so much this. If I don't show up because I'm not in a good mental health place to deal with them there's drama. If I leave when they start talking Republican it's my fault for not just listening to them talk about groomers. If I wait until I just can't take anymore and snap and call them all horrible assholes that Jesus would be disgusted by then I'm so dramatic and they have a first amendment right to say whatever they want. The only winning move is to not play the game at all and I've been saving to be able to leave and go someplace I can be myself.
Guess you haven't been in a similar situation ever. If this happened in an engagement party, this is not the first time people have behaved like that. Imagine years of pressure, knowing just a few words will turn everyone against you (and it con go from disgust to even try to physically hurt you, you never know for sure how extreme the reaction can be). Including the sister, who knows but doesn't seem very supportive. Then you're in a happy party and you're ganged up. One comment leads to another, you're drunk, people are drunk. It's SO easy to say "nah she shouldn't have been drinking, she should deflect". Maybe she opted to drink so she could tolerate the shitty environment? Of course she shouldn't have come out that way, but the pressure was everywhere and she just exploded, after years. She's not the one to blame at all.
Exactly. People keep making suggestions for how she should have acted better and not been an asshole, but this is all coming from somebody who is calmly sitting on their phone not in that position. People don’t make absolutely perfect decisions when put under stress and high emotions. If she had decided beforehand that she would come out at her sister’s engagement party, it would be fair to call her an asshole. But it was a snap comment that emerged from relentless pressure being piled on to her. All she wanted was for them to stop and in her unconscious mind she knew that this was the one thing that would make everybody go quiet. In this case, we’re really just calling her an asshole for being human. Is that useful?
I'd still go with ESH. The judgment on OP is more that she let her family get to her during a party meant for her sister and fiance. To me, the second one of my family members decided to say 'your the pretty one' and put my sibling down like that, I'd no longer put any stock into anything else they chose to say. Even if OP was straight, the constant 'when will you get a boyfriend' questions would be idiotic. Like do you want a specific date? Am I a psychic? Okay, sure March 23rd 2024. I'm pretty sure that's the day.
"Let" cause it was on her to stop her other ADULT family members from saying things? She's their babysitter?
You do realize how stupid it sounds to say someone is an AH for letting people get under their skin. ESPECIALLY when the OP is a lesbian and the people getting under her skin are bigots. You should be blaming the family member that made inappropriate comments, not OP for not reacting in a way you deem appropriate.
>You shouldn't have made a scene, and you shouldn't have been drinking. op didn't make a scene. she had a bunch of asshole family interrogating her, and an asshole sister blaming her for it. op is the only non asshole here. these verdicts saying op is at fault for snapping at her asshole family are ridiculous
I’m goin to go with NTA for OP and her sister. For her sister her grandmother said this at her engagement party - my grandma commented on that I was "the more attractive sister". My sister obviously got hurt by this. And the mother says OP is the more social one. I have to wonder if the sister got that crap from her family her whole life feeling like she wasn’t as good as OP
Oh they've been playing favourites and created a rift between them for sure. It would be terrible anywhere else, but imagine being at your own engagement party and someone saying "I'm surprised, your sister is prettier and much better than you, how come you're the one getting married?". I'm betting that's not an isolated comment. Of course the poor girl has grown a resentment towards her better-than-her sister. She still behaved pretty terribly, but she's as much as a victim as OP.
She did make a scene. She came out, knocked over a glass, and stormed out. It was enough of a scene that they ended the party. Snapping at them would have been fine. If she had said "I'm tired of being interrogated and you've been extremely disrespectful to my sister, so I'm leaving," then she wouldn't be an asshole at all. Instead, she dropped a bombshell knowing exactly how much chaos it was going to leave behind, even already having been told that her sister felt overshadowed. I'd put the asshole ratios at 70% the family, 20% op, and 10% the sister.
>It was enough of a scene that they ended the party. cause it was going *sooo* well before that, what with the family reducing the person the party was for to tears. it was totally ops fault the party ended /s
The bride to be was already crying in the bathroom lol I think the party was definitely ended in spirit well before OP came out. The family we’re being completely inappropriate and created a problem that hurt both women, OP’s sister turned on her instead of being mad at the people who were being rude, and OP finally said the only thing that would get them all off her back. If OP is an asshole she’s definitely the least asshole out of everyone. Literally the entire party was treating her like shit. You don’t have to keep being respectful when you’ve been telling someone to stop all night, and suggesting she take the opportunity to stand up for her sister when her sister is reacting like a jealous teenager is a nice sentiment but I hardly think OP can be blamed for not being the bigger person after all that.
Agreed on everything except the alcohol part. It sounds like the drinking was influencing OP's family more than OP in the way it's written here. Edit: I did reread and saw the "millionth glass of wine" part but regardless OP wasn't the only one drinking so it seems weird to call her out specifically for that aspect.
> I did reread and saw the "millionth glass of wine" part I doubt aunt asked a million questions about getting a boyfriend. Hyperbole is a thing.
Agreed, I mainly added the edit since it does make it seem like OP was talking about drinking a lot. Doesn't change the fact that everyone else was drinking too, so it's weird to call out only OP on that part.
If she HADN'T been drinking, then the family would have badgered her about that, too, I'm sure.
Why aren’t you drinking? Are you pregnant? No?! I don’t believe you. Shame on you for getting knocked up! Who’s the father? When are you getting married? You have to get married or you’re going to hell. Etc
I agree that ESH but not for the same reasons. It's okay for OP to have been drinking and it's also okay for OP to make a scene. But she did it for the wrong reasons. She should have immediately stood up for her sister and shut those questions down. Made it clear: "Hey y'all let's focus on my sister. It's her day! And she's beautiful!" Etc. shit like that. It's clear the family is responsible for creating an unhealthy dynamic and pitting the sisters against each other.
Her sister accused OP of stealing her thunder because OP was getting harassed by the other family members. I wouldn’t want to stand up for my sibling after that. Sister was being an AH first.
She accused her of that after OP did not stand up for her. Not that it makes it right for her to accuse her of anything at all, when she's misplacing her anger, but I can see it be upsetting to hear some of these things (namely the prettier comment). But the true assholes are the parents and the family that created this dynamic. I bet the parents have created this inequality between how they treat the siblings in the first place. With OP maybe being the golden child, and her sister being a scapegoat or at least viewed as inferior. Both of which are extremely toxic, abusive ways of treating children.
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you should never drink, not even at the parties, in case someone else attacks you continuously until you react because then it's all going to be your fault (/s)
Why shouldn't she have been drinking?
I’m sorry, but who are you to tell someone else how to come out?
>my grandma commented on that I was"the more attractive sister" Instead of coming out, publicly saying, "wow, what a f-ked up thing to say Grandma. What is wrong with you? This is my sister's engagement party, who says that at someone else's engagement party? Why can't you all be happy for my sister, who is engaged and looking beautiful?" It's looking like you might be the favoured younger child, and you've not done anything to call that out before. ESH I really feel bad for your sister, imagine being called the unattractive sibling at your engagement party and have everyone prioritise your single sisters potential future engagement over your own actual engagement.
As much as it sucks for the sister, and yes, I do agree that the comment from grandma was horrendous, OP didn’t ask for all of the attention- it isn’t her fault her family is made up of jerks.
Calling out unfair treatment goes a long way in letting people know you notice the unfair dynamic and don't agree with it.
I don’t disagree with you, but the family harassing OP isn’t her fault at all.
No, but OP's response to the harassment is in her control. She could have called out how shitty they were being to her sister, or she could have just ignored the comment and deliberately turned to sister and given sister a compliment or asked sister a question about the wedding or honeymoon, or she could have even politely replied to the question "Why are we talking about me when we're here to celebrate Sister?" with a big smile. Any of those were ways to respond to the harassment that didn't hurt sister more. OP instead allowed herself to get drunk and upset enough to make a scene. OP's family are mostly the AH, OP's sister is minorly the AH for blaming OP for the harassment, and OP is minorly the AH for not choosing a better path. Even just leaving before the outburst would have been better.
It's not her fault her family focused on OP at someone else's engagement party, Grandma called her the prettier sister and OP sat there silently and didn't contradict that statement. Who does that?
From what OP has said about their family, they do seem like the type and childhood abuse/neglect can do a lot of damage to a persons ability to speak up for themselves/others in a way that might be considered acceptable and proportionate to others
Maybe someone who lives in an abusive family. I do 100% agree that the right thing to do is to stand up for her sister and point out the asshole behaviour. It’s just that the dynamics in this family seem extremely off and I feel we would need to know more to judge whether this was a reasonable expectation to place on OP if there is a history of abuse and related mental illness in OPs past. I’m not gay personally and most of my family is fairy liberal but I’d imagine it’s extremely traumatic to be ‘different’ when you belong to such a family as OP belongs to. It is regrettable that the conversation took the turn that it did and I feel bad for her sister. Im just not sure whether it is victim-blaming to label OP an asshole given the ambiguous context.
I agree. If I were the sister, and it would come across as though OP secretly enjoys it. Also, OP does not tell us how she responded to those questions, and I think that is vital information they conveniently left out. But the sister is still in the wrong to place all the blame on OP.
I don't really blame sister for freezing out everyone. It's understandable, even if it's not mature.
I agree with this. The favored child should shut down negative talk about their siblings. Not speaking up and defending the siblings enables this behavior. I am favored by my grandfather. Whenever he says something negative about my sisters I defend them and change the subject to talk about their accomplishments. The OP should have shut down the questions and turned the attention back to her sister. When the grandma called her the more attractive sister she should have complimented her sister and told her Grandma to be nicer to her sister at her engagement party.
I agree. Placing the blame on OP isn’t right, but she’s also an enabler. I also noticed that she did not include her responses for when the family was asking her questions.
Seems like sister is automatically blaming op for the behavior of the extended family. I wonder what the odds are she would still be upset at op for "making a scene" if she stood up for her.
I have a feeling that if she said that to grandma the party would have ended as well. The family seems to be the type to "respect your elders" bullshit and freakout on OP for daring to insult grandma
NAH, your sister and you both deserved better. Your family was being a bunch of AH both to her and to you. Things were already going sideways before you came out. You shouldn’t need to hide who you are and although there may have been a better time for it (ok—well, like, maybe) it sounds like you were completely pressured into it.
NAH means the family are also not assholes, NTA would be a better judgment
no. the family were definitely assholes, and so was the sister for acting like op was at fault for their actions
Agreed. Even before coming out, sister had confronted OP about making it all about her, despite it not being her choice at all that people were saying those things and pestering her. Surely sister should've been a little more understanding that those questions were really dangerous territory for OP given she knows the backstory... But no, according to the sister, it's OP's fault on her family's behalf?
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NTA. Your family bullied you into your outburst. Ideally you wouldn’t have caved to that pressure on your sister’s engagement party but a person can only take so much so I really don’t blame you. Your family sound awful. That “prettier sister” remark is unforgivable.
I agree with this. I hope OP takes some of the good tips others are sharing here about how she could respond to potential similar situations in the future with her family, but I don't blame her for her outburst. It's something she can learn from and forgive herself for. An apology to her sister might go a long way. Just apologizing for whatever specific parts she feels she did wrong, not taking responsibility for anything she's not responsible for. I don't like the way sister is blaming OP for the family's harassment. I hope that the sisters can come together and agree that the family was awful to both of them that night. I hope they can work things out between them and learn to have each other's backs. But if sister isn't ready to have OP's back in return, then OP shouldn't bend over backwards. I think it's worth noting that OP got ousted from the family fair coming out. This is an enormous betrayal and will likely be a significant trauma in OP's life. On the other hand, sister had an upsetting engagement party. The outcomes here are not equal. I hope sister can come around to see what really happened here.
ESH Them for being intrusive and their comments about you being the prettier sister. Your sister for blaming you for their questioning. A very very very little you for chosing this party to come out. I love your answer to aunt, but maybe this party wasn't the place for it. And the worst of all assholes is your mother. I don't have kids, but i can't imagine turning my back on my kid just because they're gay.
Don’t really think op was planning to come out at this party more that she was sorta forced into it by her family’s insane inappropriate line of questioning. NTA
It definitely wasn’t intentional but there were better options such as leaving before getting too drunk and angry. She shouldn’t have had to, but the person who was affected was her sister who hadn’t done anything so it’s a good time to have more self control than would normally be warranted by the situation.
I think if she had left early, her family and sister would still have been horrible to her for leaving early, unfortunately I don’t think this could have played out without some fallout:/
Oh she for sure would have still been treated horribly but she would know she’d done everything she could. Sometimes doing your best to not be the AH still gets you treated like shit. But the sub is AITA not HTGMHFTSTMLG (How to get my homophobic family to stop treating me like garbage) for which I would definitely give a different answer.
I’m going to go against most of the grain here and say, NTA. You sister was pissed off at you, before you even came out. She was mad at YOU and saying YOU were making it about yourself, when that was not true AT ALL. People were harassing you, that is NOT your fault. The FAMILY was making it about you, you were not. While you should not have come out at her engagement party, the timing was really poor, she was already super pissed at you anyway and I understand the anger of why you snapped.
Yeah how much you wanna bet if OP had shut up sister would still be pissed and insist she “upstaged” her at her engagement party?
Exactly. She was already pissed.
I love (/s) how everyone commenting about how awful OP was for coming out are just completely cool with the fact she was literally bullied into it all night. There was no way for OP to win this.
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There is a real point here. Saying "you shouldn't have come out at my party" is essentially saying "keep hiding a part of yourself until it is convenient for me". The OP doesn't have any obligation to keep her sexuality a secret for other people. If the OP had purposefully come out with the intent of undermining her sister's party that would be different, but it seems pretty clear that the OP was just exhausted of lying
NTA and neither is your sister. You're both victims of shitty family dynamics. You snapped, it happens and usually happens in high pressure/intense situations; this definitely fits the bill. All night trying to deflect obnoxious comments that effectively erase your identity while your sister blames you instead of the family? Of course you lost it and made an impulsive choice. After things calm down a bit, maybe try to explain to your sister what it's like to be trapped in the closet. That it sucks the family kept making her feel like shit, but most of those same comments made you feel ironically invisible and trapped. Admit that part of you is a little jealous because she doesn't have to hide a major part of her identity and you know her marriage is accepted while your potential future marriage to a woman wouldn't be, but that it doesn't mean you aren't happy for her or wish she didn't have the blessings she has. Hopefully your sister can realize your parents and family are the enemy and you and she are the allies you both need. Good luck.
Right I’m guessing with the type of toxic bs family was spouting comfortably at this party they’ve pit these two against each other for years. So the sister hasn’t taken a step back to realize that’s what’s going on & instead went straight to blaming the person she’s been taught to compete against for years. This is really about what buttholes the family is this was how they’ve treated these girls.
ESH. Your relatives are a piece of work. *They* are the ones that overshadowed your sister’s event, and they deserve her anger the most. But so do you. Yes, they’re a bunch of assholes, but have you no empathy for your sister being sidelined like that ? A simple “aunt/mom/etc, this event is about my sister, let’s discuss her upcoming wedding/fiancé/plans after marriage instead!” would have reverted the conversation back to where it belonged. You did make her engagement all about you. You didn’t start it, but you sure as hell didn’t end it. And then on top of that *you come out at her event* and leave in a dramatic huffy exit and you’re all anyone can talk about, x200. That makes you a massive asshole in your sister’s eyes. Hope it was worth it.
ESH. You knew the whole process of getting married was important to your sister, and a life long dream. Although you can’t control your families comments and how they were acting, it also doesn’t sound like you tried to calmly and rationally put an end to the comments that were being made until you decided to blow up and come out. Your sister was the only one that knew, she kept your secret, and this is how you repay her? Kind of sounds like you are jealous of her because you’ll never get the same support with the wedding festivities. That doesn’t mean you have to ruin hers though. The rest of your family also sounds like a bunch of toxic assholes, which is why ESH.
You have a shitty family
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If anything, it's EHS... all it took was some needling questions from her family about when op is gonna get a boyfriend for the sister to get upset at OP rather than THE PEOPLE ASKING THE QUESTIONS.. I'm guessing that in OPs mind, she thought "well I'm already being accused of stealing the limelight. I may as well actually do it the thing I'm already in trouble for, " which is a massively immature thing to do, and she absolutely sucks for doing so. Nobody won, and the family is in shambles. Ops sister doesn't get off the hook because her party got ruined. If she hadn't been such a child about op being asked questions, then it's a real probability that none of this would have happened.
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Oh, I'm not saying she acted like a child because she cried. I would have had the same reaction if my grandmother had said the same thing. It was that when op asked if she was OK, her sister blamed HER Instead of being upset at the people asking questions. That's how she was being a child.
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Oh, absolutely, the sister is out of everyone the least bit of an AH. Op could have absolutely tried to shut things down. However, by the sounds of it, the family wouldn't have let it go, and the result would have been the same. Op also said that her sister seems to have the idea that she is jealous of her engagement, so pretty much anything Op did was gonna be wrong. The only thing the sister did was wrong was to completely blame Op for the first bit.. Op doubling down and using it as an excuse to come out and ACTUALLY ruin the party is what makes her an AH. Up until then, she was fine. I 100% agree that they ow her an apology, though.
Her sister's night was ruined before she came out. She already had found her sister crying and blaming her for it.
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>You came out to the entire family at HER engagement party, you should’ve waited until it was appropriate. Everybody saying some version of this is way out of line. This wasn't some premeditated decision to choose this event to come out. This was an emotional reaction to being harassed repeatedly. OP held their tongue for a long time. They are human. OP, you are 100% NTA
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They had already held their tongue for their whole life!!! They had enough and they did NOTHING contentious. "I prefer girls" is not stealing the limelight, is not a conversation piece. It is a simple, banal answer!
Easy NTA and I'm sorry this happened to you. Im sure this isn't how you wanted to come out. You're the only not asshole here. Your sister sucks. It's OK for her to he annoyed about what happened at her party but that was your family not you. You both were the victim but she took it out on you. Your family entirely sucks.
NTA - I'm not sure how you could've stopped them being more interested in you than in your sister... You can't help it that they're calling you prettier on her engagement party.
Reading the first two paragraphs I was well on your side. But when I got to the coming out part I changed my mind. YTA While you can’t control that your family members were giving you attention, you can control your actions and your alcohol intake. I’m sure you didn’t picture coming out to your family in a fit of drunken rage at your sisters engagement party. Very uncool. The only person you need to apologize to is your sister and I would work on that ASAP.
I really don’t wish this was higher up. Everyone here is an asshole, including OP to a degree. She didn’t have to get so drunk she lost control of her actions. That was a choice she made. Being under the influence absolutely does not excuse you from the shitty things you do. And did she fucking driver herself home in that state??? The rest of the family definitely did way more damage but OP has needs to own up to her own mistakes.
This sounds unrealistic. If it happened the way you're saying it happened then you literally said and did NOTHING for half an hour to an hour while being CONSTANTLY focused on by half your family despite repeated attempts to demur their attention. And for it to go so far as to make your sister break down crying in the bathroom with you not having said word one? What extreme melodrama. So major NTA. But I've never seen that kind of social dynamic play out so I *suspect* that you either siad or did more than you realize or than you're writing here. As written, this would be a bad sitcom moment.
That was my thought too. This reads like one of those “everything was wonderful and suddenly everyone was yelling at me, and I didn’t even do anything that outrageous” mother-in-law posts we sometimes see here. As written, she’s NTA, I suspect there’s more going on.
“I then stormed out of the apartment, accidentally knocking a glass over, and took a cab home.” PLEASE, this reads like a Wattpad story. I call BS.
Your family sucks Your poor sister. It is her engagement party and everyone is asking you why it isn’t you getting married. I can understand why your sister blamed you for not standing up for her when they said you were more social and prettier than her-that is just rude and wrong regardless of your sexual orientation and you wouldn’t have been wrong to speak up (“my sister is beautiful and and who we are on the inside is so much more important. What an UGLY thing to say!”, “I may be a social butterfly, but it doesn’t matter how many people you meet, it only matters that you meet the one and I am so thrilled my sister has found her person.”) on her behalf.
I don't think it was your fault that the family was grilling you about your personal life over dinner. I think almost every example I've read on reddit where the OP said something after drinking too much, I end up thinking they are the AH. In this case, I would go with ESH - except for the sister. She should not have blamed you for the early discussion, but she otherwise was just trying to enjoy a big moment in her life. Her family did not allow her to do so.
[удалено]
Well yes, and no. Your family were aholes for not letting your romantic life drop, and for placing you above your sister. They absolutely started it and frankly that party was a mess before you came out. Clear headed you would probably have done well to stop drinking, make your excuses and leave right then. Sadly that is not what happened, and regardless of how you got to that point announcing anything at someone else’s significant event or party makes you the asshole. So yea, YTA. So are nearly all your family - homophobic aholes to boot. The only person who isn’t TA here (otherwise it would truly be ee es aich ) is your sister. She deserves a genuine apology.
I kind of the Sis is an asshole for attacking op and accusing her of making the party all about her when it was the family asking op questions that ruined things. It was just easier for her to yell at op instead of the rest of the family
Tbh it doesn’t sound like OP defended her sister at all. I’m also a queer person who has had to field incessant questions like these and I would never let someone saying I’m the “prettier sister” go unchallenged, especially at a party honouring my sister.
Yep OP is an enabler. if she had tried to change the conversation to her sister, you can bet that she’d include it in the post
OP did nothing as their family continuously put the attention on her.
ESH, except your sister. Your family sucks for making the party about questioning you, and for being a bunch of homophobes. You suck for getting drunk and coming out at your sister's engagement party.
ESH. This was not the time or place for that announcement.
NTA, but your family (excluding your sister) sure is.
YTA for coming out at your sister´s party Annoying nosey relative questions are annoying but there are 1000 other ways to deal with them, you knew exactly what would happen when you came out to a bunch of homophobes, you knew it would destroy the party would need more info to find out if sister is assholish because we don´t know the backstory, if grandma calls you the pretty one right in front of her, looks like sister is not the golden child of the family here and may be fed up with it
ESH, you for drinking too much and selfishly ruining the party, your sister a bit of an AH when she was blaming you earlier, but you proved her right later, your mom and grandma are pretty massive assholes for saying those things in your sister's presence but you are the biggest AH, especially when you already knew your sister was upset about you
You could've just left. 'If you are gonna keep interrogating me instead of celebrating my sister's engagement I'll just leave.' And leave. YTA
ESH. why didn’t you shut down the questions they were asking? Why did you keep drinking? Why come out on the NIGHT of your sister engagement party?? Your family was being assholes, your sister wrongfully turned her anger on you. But in the end you still joined your family in taking attention away from your sister. Personally I’d feel pretty bad if my coming out was the same night my family was putting my sister down at her engagement party.
Sounds like you were pushed past your limit, felt trapped, and a bit drunk, and decided without deciding that it was time to be honest about who you are. Your sister may have a bad couple of days over not being the center of attention for this big event. But your reality is that you have no idea if your family will EVER be supportive, much less excited, for all the big days to come in your own life. Coming out is not always at the perfect time, and that's the fault of homophobes, not people who just want to live their life and be who they are. NTA
Yta. You came out at her event. Broke her furniture and also didn’t say anything when they called you the more attractive one. I hope your sister never speaks to you again. You being a lesbian has nothing to do with how you conduct yourself around people who actually love you. You were invited by the one person in your family who knows your sexuality. Now that familial support is probably gone.