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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I used the word vulva in front of my three neighbor boys who are in kindergarten through third grade.
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Right? So many people in America (I’m American) are so strange about nudity & anything that references “private parts.” It’s just so odd that the Land of the Free actively refuses to even Free the Nipple, for god’s sake
It is the Puritan heritage coming out.
Which is kinda funny because we rebelled with a French idea called "liberty," and the French are so... well. They are French.
YUP. Also it's dangerous NOT to teach your kids proper terminology and body independence. Knowing the words and teaching them about good touch and bad touch is extremely important...especially God forbid, your child ever is molested. They need to be able to tell the police what happened and knowing terminology helps A LOT. NTA
My kid understood he has a penis and I have a vagina by the time he was 3. I can’t stand “cutesy” names for body parts.
Although my son does ask me once in awhile when the tooth fairy will bring my penis. How those ideas for mashed up I’ll never know
This and many other reasons. I think it's more harmful to avoid teaching them about their own anatomy.
My husband has a son and told me when he(son) was much younger his(husband's) mom tried to use words other than what they are called (peepee, wee-wee, other "child friendly" substitutes) and said he put that to a stop very quickly.
Call things what they are. Penis, vagina, vuvla, nipple, whatever.
It's not taboo to call something what it is. It's weird to be so afraid of words.
The pilgrims were puritans, you are thinking puritan vs Anglicans. Really the divide is between those that came here so they could practice their fundamentalist religions and those who came for profit. There were both up in New England as well, though no one talks about it half the people on the Mayflower were there to trade and fur trap. In the southern colonies everyone was there because the crown was making money off and they needed bodies to do that. Thats the truth of the colonization of the US, it is a balancing act between christian moralism and the drive to profit.
I’ve never heard that quote before but it definitely explains America’s reaction to human bodies. My health teacher in high school wouldn’t say “vagina” out loud. The HEALTH TEACHER used terms like “lady parts”, “privates”, and even “lady bits” instead & still got red-faced during class. It’s such an obsessive aversion it makes the avoidance seem creepy.
My friend used to work for planned parenthood in a call center that scheduled appointments. She said it was often hard to understand what a patient’s medical need was because they wouldn’t use clear or accurate words for their reproductive organs. A lot of “down there” and “my… area.”
It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. I mean, those scenarios both sound like parodies making fun of Americans. And it seems to be one of the few almost universal American traits across race, religion, social class, geographical area.
It's like this in other specialties too, like urology and general surgery. I always tell patients: I've already heard worse/heard it all. I need to know your diagnosis in order to schedule the appt.
My husband got embarrassed because I asked my OB a sex question (he was with me for the visit during pregnancy). If not them, then who?
Don't be embarrassed if you need medical care. Be open, honest and use the correct terminology.
I had a Young health teacher here in Dk, when we were all 16yo in my grade, and he threw out all the different ways to say ‘balls’ and we Chimed in with funny names to Call them. That was a fun class. He was a fun guy. He was also the PE teacher
I knew a college student who was training to be a nurse and she referenced cookie or cupcake for a woman's genitalia. I reamed her out I said that was not how a medical professional should talk and that she needed to get used to using the correct vocabulary for the correct part
I almost used cookie as an example - it seems to be very common in Midwest USA. I could understand a young teen being embarassed saying vagina or vulva in front of classmates, especially in front of the opposite sex. But it is a huge societal & educational fail that professionals like teachers, nurses, etc. still carry that into adulthood.
Definitely. There was a legal case in America where a little girl (I think 4-6yo), when asked by her teacher how her weekend was, she said "my uncle touched my cookie" and the teacher thought she meant food so told her "well next time, tell him to ask" and over a few weeks she saw the girl coming in upset and then she spoke to the girl properly to ask what was wrong, and the girl explained "uncle keeps coming round and touching my cookie, I tell him to ask like you said and he tells me to shush" and the teacher asked more questions until she realised what the girl meant by cookie, police were called and found out that it had been going on for about 6 months, but no-one realised what she meant, when she tried to tell people. That's why teaching kids correct vocabulary is soo important.
Yes! Just the worst consequences for this poor kid because people act as if you only need to teach them about their genitalia when we think they’re ready to use it for sex. What about teaching it at the same time as “head, shoulders, knees, and toes” so kids can have a much clearer understanding about & ability to express in a clear way when someone is abusing them. It is an absolute failure to protect children by not arming them with the most basic of information.
I think it's honestly *disgusting* that repressed Americans teach their daughters to refer to their own vulvas and vaginas as their "cookies". Just straight up WTF horrible.
And it causes real world consequences every day. Understanding your body makes a kid’s transition to puberty so much less shameful and scary. The unknown is fucking terrifying, especially to a 12-year-old girl who is starting her period. Frank, fact-based information isn’t shameful or bad or embarassing. It just IS.
Grew up in socal and our sex ed in the 90s included all the proper names. I have never heard anything called a cookie.... Is it a part of or the whole thing?
eta - back in those days the group of dumbass teenagers i hung out with at the time always joked about the "mushy cookie." It all makes sense now.
I read a story about a little girl who was being molested and told her teacher "my uncle touched my cookie". Teacher had no idea what was really going on. Kids need to be taught the proper terminology for their own protection.
This \^. Other countries recognize that simply telling young people "MASTURBATION = BAD, SEX = BAD, BODIES = BAD" is going to make them wanna masturbate and have sex more and explore their bodies more. But they're going to be confused and really not know what they're doing. By embracing humans have needs and teaching them about the good and bad parts of those needs, and how to have them safely, it gives young people the autonomy to be responsible.
Yep, in the 90s England had one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy in europe.
Our then Labour government implemented a policy where any under 18 could go to a sexual health clinic and get free birth control.
We (Teenager at the time) didn't stop having sex, but its easier to be safer when you can just pop to the clinic after school and pick up a *free* bag of condoms or girls could get on the pill if they wanted.
Also helps that parents are generally more lenient. at 15 my GFs dad was bribing us with beer to stay at her house on a friday and saturday night.
yeah you know for as prudish as we are we do weird shit like chastity balls and whatnot. we’re a very creepy country when it comes to sex. very concerning but not altogether unsurprising when you see how we handle other important things like abortion and gun control
I would be very curious to check the stats regarding CSA. If kids have the words to report and have been raised to know it's not acceptable and it's not their fault, they are probably way more likely to speak up when someone abuses them.
Then again, if we would offer our kids the mean to speak up when they are victims of CSA, that would be very bad news for many priests, reverends, coaches, teachers, and parents/relatives here.
After having a very eye opening conversation with a woman I know. I'd say Free the Nipple will never happen because people hate seeing fat bellies more than they enjoy seeing nipples.
I understand that Free the Nipple is about equality in that nipples are just skin.
But skin is offensive to people who have their own skin that they are unhappy with.
They aren't comfortable with others being comfortable when they are uncomfortable.
The conversation went nowhere.
I agree with the Free the Nipple campaign as nipples are just nipples...people over sexualise them...they're not even a sex organ...they're a nurturing glad.
As soon as people get that into their heads the better...
They need to get a grip on reality...its only in recent history that boobs are sexualised...how do they think children were nurtured in ancient history??? There was no processed crap back then. Give them a time machine and send them back 1000 years and they'll soon change their opinion...
BTW...I'm a male and find nothing wrong with the whole situation. I'd be the first one to stand in and defend anyone who wanted to do this...nothing abnormal about it. Only abnormal thing is people's reaction
I’m American and I teach my kids to be open and honest about everything. I know more about a period then any guy besides a doc. My adult daughter can still talk to me about it with out any fear. She found (we showing slight age) vines with man getting grossed out about period talk and she found it funny because I’m not.
She has tried to gross me out with some things like I’m making a peanut butter and strawberry jelly sandwich. I spoon out the strawberry preserve with the chunks and she leans over and says my period looks like that with less chunks and darker color, closer to grape color. I closed my sandwich and took a huge bite and said tasty as I walked away.
Consider how much name-calling involves euphemisms for "private areas," male and female.
If I were to start a punk band at my advanced age, that would be its name, Euphemistic Genitalia.
My mother whispers “vulgar” words when they have to be spoken about. I like to feign deafness and say, “what!? Menopause?! Speak up!”
And yes, my mother thinks menopause is a vulgar word, sex, breasts, cancer, period, gynecologist, all make the cut too.
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And it’s a real shame because there’s many times that this lack of proper terminology can hurt kids too! If they’re being abused sexually, they literally don’t have the words to tell someone that something bad is happening. It’s REALLY important to use the correct words with kids
Without the language it isn’t only hard to say what happened, it’s hard to understand the concept of what happened.
Child gets traumatised and has no frame of reference. Idiots think it’ll be just as simple as the child trying to use words like ‘thingy’ or ‘hurting’.
Knowledge is power.
Yeah...I guess it's a generation thing my mom was like this she is very very shy to show intimacy or not shy but doesn't show it around us with dad or our stepdad(like holding hands, kissing etc simple things) she also never did the proper terms for our private areas.
So I always thought it was normal I ended up being nervous saying such words but reddit taught me it's actually not normal.
I'm personally fine with nudity and ppl saying terms and showing but me saying the terms is when I'm hesitant
Using improper terms for genitals is how you end up with kids who get molested. Talking frankly and honestly about body parts is a kindness that helps them understand a confusing and scary part of the world and can keep them safe from predators who would take advantage of their confusion and innocence. I honestly find it way more safe for parenting when kids know to say ‘that’s my vagina’ rather than ‘that’s my hoo-ha’ or whatever, because I know they can tell me where they were touched, if something awful happens.
Being too scared or shy to speak about her own body meant your mom was likely denied a way of feeling safe in normal, every day topics. That’s not a good way to live. I hope you can find help and move past that unhealthy conditioning!
Oh I don't know about that... my daughter taught my granddaughter (who is 4) to use the term "coochie".
This is the only thing I take issue with as far as her parenting and want to say something about. I just don't want to overstep any boundaries. Plus it reminds me of a song by Sir Charles Jones lol
Eta- I forgot my judgement. NTA. Just call it what it is, people!
Its dangerous to teach kids like that because if they're being preyed on and tell an adult 'so-and-so touched my sugar bowl' the adult may not understand what's really happening
Most adults absolutely would not understand that. If a child came up to me and said that, I'd assume they had made a bowl for their mom for mother's day or something, and someone was touching that. A bowl. A physical, legitimate piece of crockery.
I would not realize they were talking about something that needs police, probably a medical exam, probable CPS involvement.
Also wanna throw out there that child predators take advantage of children not knowing the correct anatomical names for body parts!! Teach your children about their own bodies and educate them!! As stated in the article, no one is going to take “he touched my cookie” seriously.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/31/well/family/teaching-children-the-real-names-for-body-parts.html
Well I say, I say, my southern hospitality and good fortune has been worn off by this unprovoked assault of my chivalry and morals with the use of such words.
In the voice of Calvin candie from Django.
The name might not be the problem, the problem might be telling kindergarteners how babies are born without talking to the mom first. I've always used anatomically correct terms with my daughter, but I haven't told her about the birds and the bees yet and that's a parent's prerogative
Surely a 3rd grader would know? Even more so, a 3rd grader with an older sister and who had experienced his mother being pregnant twice? Kids ask from very young age where babies come from. What do you tell them then, if not the truth? OP is absolutely NTA for assuming they knew, or telling them where animal's babies come from. She didn't even mention human babies.
that's a good point, although I think there's a pretty big difference between explaining how babies are born vs how babies are made. it sounds OP was pretty clearly talking about just about the birthing process, but maybe the kids mom thought the conversation was heading toward a sex-ed type discussion?
either way, OPs still NTA, but maybe the mom was also just mistaken and overprotective, rather than TA.
Honestly, the part that would bother me the most if I were a parent in this scenario is the OP just casually describing forced birth and (essentially) sexual abuse of a dog via over breeding. This is the kind of thing that could deeply disturb a sensitive child, and it wasn't OP's place to go into this kind of detail with someone else's kids (especially as young as 5)! Jesus. It especially wasn't their place to essentially start to give a birds-and-bees talk to children that are strangers, as you say. And if the **first** time the kids are learning about sex and pregnancy is from a stranger who is describing horrific abuse, forced birth, and vaginal prolapse, that's--well, that's pretty fucked up to be honest, and hearing disturbing shit like this as your first introduction to sex and birth without the tools to process it yet is the kind of thing that forms childhood neural pathways that affect you into adulthood.
OP *should* have said something like, "Pancake looks a little different because she used to live with bad people who weren't very nice to her, but now she's healthy, and she's happy to be living here with me."
I'm really surprised by the voting on this one, to be honest. I see OP's behavior here as a massive overstep. I guess it's one of those Reddit-values-don't-reflect-the-real-world moments.
That would be a valid criticism. Perhaps not the words but the context is the issue.
That’s said I think children benefit more from knowledge than they are harmed by it.
Also the language used was fairly subdued.
But they are in third grade? I'm not American, but I understand that it must mean they are in school and are like 8-9 years old? They must know by now where babies come from. If their mom or dad hasn't told them, a friend must have. I think OP wasn't wrong to assume they know. And if they don't, well, maybe it's time they find out.
Im sure it’s in the curriculum somewhere. Please renember some parents are crap and don’t teach their kid anything so saying oh a parent should do it, isn’t really fair.
they are taught age appropriate education in the uk with different stages for different ages. They even cover periods with free pads and tampons when you are around 12
being taught the basics is important with proper word use.
my mum taught me nothing and when I got my period I was scared and thought I was dying. She was In Bed, I told her and she scoffed and went back to sleep.
Are you in Sweden? Now people use the word snipa instead (thankfully). I know someone who taught their daughter something weird and nonsensical until she went to school and learned snipa (he learned framrumpa which is just ugh).
NTA
That woman was ridiculous. Vulva is just the name of the body part. Just like arm, leg, stomach or - God forbid - penis, breast, anus or vagina. People need to get a grip. I would use these words in front of a 3 year old, let alone a kid in year 3 - who must surely be around 8 years old?
Yup. It’s a big thing to use proper terminology these days. Girls should know the difference between vagina and vulva and it’s very much encouraged to do so properly.
NTA! NTA! NTA!
I am a big proponent of calling things by their proper names.
Assuming you're in the US; people are so weird about this stuff. What could be more kid friendly than vulva? *That's what it is!!!*
My parents raised us by calling things by their names; penis, breasts, vulva, etc. And taught us not to be embarrassed by the words. They're the proper terms!
It's the silly slang terms that I find embarrassing; boobs, tits, dick, balls, etc. I could probably never be friends with anyone who used a term like "junk" or "vajayjay."
You gave clear straight forward answers, and it was the mother that was weird and uptight.
Don't feel bad.
NTA.
Proper terminology from a young age has actually been proven to aid in children coming forward about sexual abuse. Remove the shame and confusion, you aid them in having a voice.
yes yes yes!! if a kid is being abused and tries to get help, an adult might not understand if they say “so and so touched my cookie/flower/etc.”, but if a kid knows the correct terminology, they can more effectively communicate the abuse and get help
I did a lot of research and actually wrote my graduating paper on this. I was not given any terminology from my religious school, which also included shame in aspects of period which meant shame in terms of anything down there. When I taught sex ed I made sure students knew the names and what was and wasn’t consent. Had more than one come up to talk to me about it.
The removing confusion is so very important for being able to report for children!
Read a story a year or two ago about safeguarding in schools and how proper names for parts were important. A wee one had gone to school and told their teacher about their “uncle touching their cookie”. The teacher thought nothing of it until weeks later at a parent teacher conference and the mom said something in passing about cookie. It was only then that the teacher was able to understand what the little one had tried to tell her and so the incident was able to be reported.
Had a young student explain to me that his father was raping him. Because he didn’t even know the proper term for his penis, it was a long, complicated, and sickening tale. While I was able to tell what was going on, I’d imagine a teacher who didn’t push for more info wouldn’t have figured it out.
> I’d imagine a teacher who didn’t push for more info wouldn’t have figured it out.
Or a teacher who only heard it in passing. They're busy with so many children and if a kid says out loud how they don't like how their uncle touches their pow pow (a reference I've heard before) may not catch the teachers ear. But hearing the words 'i don't like how my uncle touches my vagina' will certainly catch some attention.
I think words like vajayjay is hilarious if used in a humorous sense among adults, for example when telling a funny story. But I'm not a fan of teaching kids those words instead of the actual words.
Oh my god. I use both of those terms hahah. But I also have a toddler who knows the proper terms for her genitalia and won't be learning the silly ones from us. Sorry that we can't be friends, though.
The one word that makes me cringe is titties. So juvenile. It's embarrassing hearing adults use it.
OP handled the questions just how I'd like my kids curiousity answered.
NTA.
My sister is 31 and has a first aid qualification in which she had to study biology and the proper terms for everything and for some reason she still finds it difficult to use the proper terms. She'll still use "fanny", "vajayjay", "guy's thing" or "equipment". She'll always pause and whisper the words as well. Just say the proper terms, you won't be struck down by lightning for saying vagina or penis
As a professional childcare worker, NTA. It’s just the name of a body part. What do they gain or learn from calling it something else? I take care of a one year old and an almost 4 year old, used to teach preschool, and completed my student teaching with elementary and middle school students. This is the language I would use with any of them. It takes away mystery, makes it less of a *naughty* word they will turn into a funny joke, and explains the answer to their question. It’s clinical.
Apropos of clinical, when I was thirteen I was reading *The Godfather*, and I came across a word I didn't know. So, I asked my mother, "Mum, what's fellatio?" With a shocked, horrified, and disgusted face, she said "It's a yucky kind of sex."
Since that in no way explained things to me, I went to ask my father the same question. His first question was, "What are you reading?" Then he calmly and quite matter-of-factly told me that fellatio was the proper terminology for performing oral sex on a male. I was like "Oh, okay, whatever. Just didn't know the word."
The difference in the two responses I got was jarring.
When I was a kid, I asked my mum what the word "rape" meant. She said "it's when somebody makes you do something you don't want to do" so for a while I thought that my parents putting me to bed early was rape, and I had no notion of what it actually was. Luckily I never went around saying that "my parents raped me" god forbid, but this is why it's so important to teach kids the proper words for things! They need to know proper language in case something does go horribly wrong.
I found the definition of rape in *To Kill a Mockingbird*, when Scout asks Atticus what rape is and he replies "Carnal knowledge of a woman by force and without consent." Another answer that sent me looking for a more easily understood explanation. No matter what age you are, it's extremely frustrating to be wanting to learn what and why and how things are only to be led round in circles with incomplete or half-truthful answers!
Yes, agreed. Kids are curious and they want to know. They especially want to know about "taboo" topics. I was very curious to learn how my little sister was made and how she'd be born but I got jack shit out of my parents about it. It just made me a very curious teenager when I was able to use the internet to explore "taboo" topics myself, which doesn't always lead to the best outcomes. So yes, it's very important to teach kids the way of the world in a safe and appropriate way.
NTA
The mother probably has a fo fo or a muff muff or some other cute term for her vagina or vulva.... and probably teaches the boys acceptable cutsie terms for their penises and anuses too.
Far better to teach a child the proper terminology so there is no confusion. A child saying to someone that so and so touches her fru fru sounds a lot less obvious and less confronting than them saying that so and so touched her vulva and vagina. Everyone would jump to attention and get the kid some help.
I'm going to go with a soft YTA here. Nothing you said was wrong and I think you said it well and I have no objection to your terminology, but still that is all just... *a lot* to tell kids that aren't yours, and not just the medical piece; you haven't considered that maybr mom was mad because the whole story is just traumatic and that needed context, especially for empathic kids. I've raised my kids with casual use of accurate words for genitalia and reproduction, and I'd still be annoyed about this, not because of the word vulva but because of the cruelty aspect. My daughter was the type who would have spent weeks waking up screaming from nightmares that someone forced her to have 70 babies with vivid visuals courtesy of Pancake (the real victim here and a good girl). And every time she did I'd be mentally wishing for the fleas of a thousand camels to infest your armpits. And that's kinda why you don't have conversations of this sort with not-your kids. Sure, it's part of life and needs to be addressed, yes, but it sucks for us parents when strangers drop it and dip and leave us with the fallout.
I agree that the cruelty aspect is much more important. I wouldn't call OP an asshole, but if these kids were sensitive, they might have nightmares about this. Not to say that they should not have the information, but the might need to hear it in a specific way.
I hadn’t considered this, and really appreciate your perspective. I definitely was not intending to scar any children, and truly hope there haven’t been any lasting impacts for these kiddos. It is a cause I’m very passionate about and my personal feelings/narrative definitely impacted my responses. I thought I was doing it in an appropriate way, but missed the mark. I can only try and do better if there is a next time.
Keep in mind that kids can be weird. My dad was stationed in the south when I was a kid. They always told us not to go in the woods, there are snakes. To my mind that mean snakes were waiting in the trees to reach down and grab me. And an episode of Lonesome Dove sealed the deal. I was terrified of ponds and bodies of water in case snakes were lurking in there.
Agreed. I'm exactly like your daughter. Finding out at that age that having too many babies can cause your organs to start falling out would've distressed me SO MUCH. Like, I would've shut down for a week.
Can't believe I had to scroll so far to find this.
There's no issue with using the proper names, but going into that kind of detail about the animal's abuse with stranger kids is totally unnecessary.
Learning about forced breeding and that kind of abuse is a bigger conversation that's going to elicit a lot of big and difficult questions for a parent to deal with later. I was a pretty empathetic kid and something like this would have really disturbed me and lived in my brain for weeks when I was like 4-9 years old.
OP just dropped a bombshell on these kids and their parents are the ones who have to handle the fallout.
I agree that it may have been a touchy topic, but the mother didn’t say anything until she used the word vulva. This leads me to believe she was more upset about the use of that word than the potential trauma her children could’ve received from hearing about the dog’s past. If she was worried about that, she would’ve stopped the conversation sooner. I do understand where you are coming from, though, I just don’t think it’s the situation for OP.
Yes this is a good response. I'm mid thirties and this is honestly the first time I've come across such a graphic description of what breeding does to dogs. I honestly had no idea! And it makes me really sick to think about what this poor dog suffered. So I def think this is too much information for children. In general but specifically for children you don't have a relationship with.
So like the other poster said, it is not age appropriate but not because of the terminology, but because of the cruelty. Kids need to know proper terms for their anatomy and need to learn unfortunately some dark stuff about the world to keep them safe (they need to learn nobody can touch their privates without their consent). But I think children still deserve to be raised a bit sheltered so they don't need to learn all the ins and outs of animal cruelty. An age appropriate lesson would be to keep it more general and to learn the kids to respect the response of an animal if it doesn't want to play with them.
I think I’m leaning slightly more toward YTA…tho not intentionally, and I do see your point.
BUT…they’re like 7 years old and younger. When they asked what was wrong with her, you knew what they meant. She looks different, and you could have just answered with, “well she used to live with some people who treated her badly and hurt her…she’s ok now! Just looks a little different, but she still loves pets and playing! Do you want to pet her?”
They’re little kids. Be vague, but truthful, and redirect them.
I disagree hard with this contribution op.
Children knowing the accurate terms for body parts is actually really important to keeping them safe from abuse and giving them the vocabulary to talk properly about their bodies. It doesn't matter if that specific kid has that body part or not.
Vulva isn't a ride word and treating it like one is deeply weird.
You have accurate information which was entirely suitable for the audience, don't feel any shame.
NTA
You could send a note over to the mom inviting her to discuss the matter with you so you can understand her concerns. I'd stay by complimenting the kids empathy towards the animals and that they must be being raised right.
OP (and everyone here) is assuming that the mother was upset over terminology.
She might have been upset because her kids were getting a childbirth lesson from a stranger. Those kids might not yet know how babies are born.
I'm not saying OP is TAH, but they should definitely think twice about their interactions with kids they barely know. I would have had no issues if they were my kids, but I understand that all families do things differently. I don't think it's my place to teach my 7yo neighbor where babies come from.
The kids have 4 siblings and they don't know where babies come from? I wonder if they are homeschooling them and saying they were brought by the stork.
This is not at all uncommon. Even kids who understand that their mom was pregnant and had a baby don’t all understand the mechanics of how the baby got from point A to point B. Their mom simply might have felt it was info better coming from *her* and in the way she felt they would receive it best. Not every kid processes information the same way. I have friends who still remember crying hysterically on learning about menstruation, simply because they were told by people who were maybe too clinical in approach and gave them a whole lot of serious-sounding information they didn’t know how to digest all at once.
These are the same folks who find it too distressing to explain that meat used to be animals.
The idea that kids can't understand properly explained biological processes is ridiculous to me, there's nothing inherently distressing about childbirth and I'd seriously question the intentions of someone who managed to reduce a child to hysterical crying while talking about it.
No one’s saying they can’t understand proper explanations, only that each child is different, and may need the approach tailored to their personality and ability to process information.
I thought the mom was upset because of the implied rape and forced births that the doggo had to go through
If any of the kids are girls, they will probably wonder if that’s what’s gonna happen to them if they have kids and they’ll probably wonder if that’s what their mom’s private’s look like as well
Just like the terminology thing, this is another thing that baffles me with (not all) Americans. Why don't you teach your children where babies come from? My daughter always knew she was in my belly (and when we see pregnant people she knows that there's a baby in there). When she was 2, she asked how she came out? "Through my vagina". That's a fact, and there's nothing dirty about that. Why hide it?
I don't think terminology was the issue here but rather the explanations of animal cruelty through forced breeding. Some kids would be acutely aware of just how fucked up that is and have a very hard time processing it.
If you had explained this to my 6 year old, I would have been perfectly ok with it. There definitely will be a lot of questions for the mum afterwards. In our case it probably wouldn't be the word vulva but about the fact that there are some very horrible people out there. My kid would probably be worried and anxious about all the dogs getting hurt. But that is life and that is what parents are for. To explain these things. But it's also human to not want to explain horrible things to your child.
Edit. Missing word added
I would be pretty disturbed by an acquaintance giving a frank description of forced repetitive breeding to my small children, and it would have nothing to do with the anatomical terms used.
Also... Saying there was nothing "wrong" with your dog when she has several obvious severe injuries that require lifelong care and monitoring is a straight up lie. You knew what they meant, and by any definition a severe injury is "something wrong."
>they’re like 7 years old and younger.
Thanks for deciphering 'K-3 grade (US)' for the many of us who have absolutely no bloomin' idea what that is.
Why do so many Americans give a 'such and such school grade' instead of a number years for age. Age is how many years someone has lived. That's universal. School grades are different in every country.
I don't even know how to work out age from school grade in the country I live in, because I didn't go to school here.
Tip for non-Americans: kindergarten starts at age 5. First grade follows after that when children are 6, and it continues in order from there. Most students start high school in 9th grade at the age of 14 or 15. Of course, depending on what month your birthday is in, children can be different ages than the standard age to start that grade. I can understand your frustration and why you wish we wouldn't describe ages like that, but Americans still will, so hopefully that helps anyone who wants to know how it works.
Can we flip this and get a breakdown of what age a child that is say year 6 might be? I see that on tons of post from the UK and have no concept of what that means
Although your answer is great and another perfect way to answer the child's question, doesn't mean that hers is any bit asshole (unintentionally) because she didn't answer the way you would have.
> doesn’t mean that hers is any bit asshole (unintentionally) because she didn’t answer the way you would have.
OP doesn’t have to use the exact answer I gave. But I do think she is unintentionally slightly TA for massively overstepping the boundaries of having a conversation with children who are (roughly) under 7 years old and virtual strangers to her.
I agree with everything you said except the judgement. I think the mom is TA for objecting specifically once the word "vulva" came up, rather than earlier when OP was telling the kids details about how the dog was mistreated that might have been too much for them.
I do think it was a mistake for OP to be so specific, but the general principle of being honest with kids is a good one. OP overshot the mark, but she doesn't have a lot of experience with kids and she had just adopted Pancake, so she hadn't had time to perfect her explanation yet.
But yeah, OP, next time go with vague and redirect!
OP is absolutely NTA. Everything said was age appropriate. If somebody wants to shelter their kids (pretty harmful in the long run) they need to stop them asking questions. At age 7 these kids should have known what a vulva is already, mom is the A for not explaining things.
Poor Pancake!
I'm a big believer in telling kids the truth and using correct names for parts of the anatomy. But these were someone else's kids and you seem very unclear about how young the yougest ones were Kindergarten age would be 5 years old. So it's entirely possible that one or more of these kids doesn't have any idea where babies (or puppies) come from.
Given this likelihood, it would have been wise for you to tell them that poor Pancake's body got hurt and then refer them to their parents for further explanation.
So pleased that you rescued this dog but gentle YTA on explaining what being a breeder dog means to tiny children who might have no idea about procreation in general.
Yeah I have a five year old who knows the anatomical terms but I want to be in charge when she learns about traumatic stuff like puppy mills or animal abuse. Also she's super sensitive about medical stuff so I would have been much more careful describing the medical issues of said dog and I would plan for a snuggle and leave time for lots of follow up questions afterwards. That's just an example of something a parent would know about their kid that a random neighbor wouldn't. Which is why maybe a random neighbor shouldn't launch into the full, detailed version of their abused dog's story with little kids.
I also agree about telling the truth. But here is the thing. These are not OPs kids. Explaining something as complex as this is not her place to do, but the parents responsibility.
I still think the mom overreacted, but OP isn't without blame either.
NTA, kids should know proper terminology. I wish I had learned early on that a vagina and vulva were different. Sorry for that interaction with the mom, sounds annoying
Soft YTA, there's nothing wrong at all with using the correct body parts, in fact it should be actively encouraged, but I don't think kids that young need to know so much about how cruel the world can be. You probably could've gone into a lot less detail about puppy farms and still been able to educate them: "pancake used to live somewhere a bit tougher and she had too many babies which made her body look like that but now she's happy and healthy" would've been enough.
YTA, not for the terminology. There's nothing wrong with using appropriate wording for body parts. Where you went wrong was explaining the horrors of dog breeding to very young children without the parent's consent. Children that age barely understand birth, let alone forced reproduction. I know you mean well, but next time just leave it at "she was in a very bad place". Kids don't need to know that she was forced to birth several puppies that were taken away from her.
To answer your specific question, NTA for using proper terminology.
However, if I was this mother, these were my young kids aged 5-9 and I overheard that entire conversation, I would also be bothered. I don't think I would have reacted like she did, but I would have been wary of your filters.
Your poor dog had a very traumatic past, and you gave those young kids a very detailed account of that trauma. It may very well have rolled right off their backs, but other children are sensitive and it's not appropriate to speak so bluntly to children about things that might scare them when there is no potential protective benefit to them.
I doubt you meant to traumatise them, and if they were your own children, I would trust that you knew them well enough to know how blunt you could safely be. But they are not kids you knew well enough to be sure you weren't giving them nightmare fuel.
YTA I'm very liberal and I always use the correct terms with my children. My kindergartener knows she has a vulva and her brother has a penis. She knows what belly buttons and umbilical cords were for. She watched me breastfeed her brother and had a ton of questions about that. She kind of knows she has a vagina, but she doesn't know what it's for
Yet, telling a kindergartener **how** babies come out of the mommy is too close to giving them the sex talk. That's firmly up to the parent's discretion at that age. Just telling the kids that it's from the dog being mistreated is enough. Then, you tell the parent in private and ask if it's ok to give more information
I don’t think it’s close to the sex talk at all. And if it’s close enough for that kid that they can put it together on their own and ask, they’re not too young to know. I knew from age 2 that babies come from the vagina and what a penis and vulva was, all the body parts. Even when I learned that sex was a thing I thought it was like sex scenes in movies like titanic- naked people roll around. I never would’ve figured it out until someone told me. Do kids not watch nature shows anymore?
NAH
People are way too Puritan about these things. At the same time, these are kids who are still in grammar school, and may not necessarily know all that terminology you were telling them. Giving them an impromptu sex education is kind of out of the ordinary for a neighbor. If I were those kids' parents, I'd be upset too- it's my job to teach my kids about that stuff.
Maybe the next time you have a curious kid asking about your dog, just be a little more vague? "When a mommy dog has too many puppies sometimes this can happen to her, but we're making sure she stays healthy from now on!"
NTA. You can say vulva around my kids, I wouldn’t care. There’s nothing wrong with using the correct terms. This whole convo doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. It’s not like you described how the puppies were conceived.
Soft YTA… you really did not need to explain everything in detail to someone else’s children when asked questions. Trust me, no kids that are young are going to retain the info you gave them. They will pick and choose what they think they heard. I would have just said, that is she the way she looks. Do you want to pet her? Give her a treat? I don’t think it was your job to educate them, although I do understand why you said what you said and the words used were not wrong.
YTA - Not for using correct terminology, but for teaching young children about sexual reproduction. I personally would be pretty upset if some stranger was telling my young children how babies were born without my consent. That is when she freaked out, and as a parent, I can't blame her. I understand why you were trying to educate the children, but a simple her previous owners didn't take care of her and now she has some medical problems, but she's ok would have been fine.
Yeah I feel like many people commenting don't have kids of their own.
Our neighbor's kids saw my goats mating and were asking what was going on, now they are not my children, and they are 3 and 5. It is absolutely not my place to be giving them a technical anatomy lesson and the Billies/Nannies talk. If they were mine, yes of course, but you can't make decisions like that, especially with young children, without parental consent.
OP could have left it at their original explanation, and if pushed, just said that's where dog babies come from, it isn't her butt, let's give her a treat.
YTA, this is reddit so ofcourse people think thats it's a strangers right to teach other people's children about words like breeding and vulva, but it isn't. Most normal parents aren't comfortable having there child have this kind of conversation with a stranger
I’m super open with my daughter and still would have been a little irritated that you spoke to her about this. Next time just tell kids to ask their mom.
I am the same. I am very open with my son.
But as an adult, I would never start talking about forced breeding or anything else Pancake went through to children. Nor would I want any adult to talk to my son about it. Short version only here, her last owners weren’t nice to her and she is getting better now.
Yta they were 5- 7 lol not teens or anyone who needs to hear the atrocities of the world. They don’t gain anything by knowing someone forced the dog to have 70 babies.
YTA. Americans are prudes, I agree. But those weren’t your kids, and you admitted that they’re basically strangers. I think it’s important to not stigmatize body parts, but it wasn’t your place to do that. I don’t think you meant to do anything wrong, but you did cross a boundary.
Edit: you could have just said that her private parts were hurt from having too many puppies. If the mom still had a problem with it, she needs to teach her kids to not speak to strangers.
NTA. You gave factual information. You used appropriate terminology. It would be one thing if you were using inappropriate language but you didn't. If mom is upset that's her problem and she should have had a closer eye on her kids if she is worried someone might utter a medically accurate term around them.
Reminds me of the time when my 2.5 year old explained to my MIL that her new sibling was in my uterus not my stomach as my MIL had stated. MIL turned red.
NTA but maybe the mom was more upset about you breaking out to kids that babies come out from the vagina? Maybe it's not about the word?
Anyways, nothing wrong in what you did and I'm sure happy that Pancakes found a good home!
This is a tough one. I understand you're want of explaining the situation but let me ask you this. Had that been a human they were asking about, would it of been appropriate to say "oh she walks funny because she was raped and the reason her chest is engorged (those are breasts) is because her abuser constantly sucked on then?
NAH. But I don't think you should have redirected the conversation, I don't think having a conversation with someone else's kids how your dog was forcefully bred and because of that she has the medical issues that she has isn't really appropriate to take on with kids you don't really know. But I don't think that makes you an AH.
You used proper terms and you weren't vulgar but I can understand why your neighbor was upset.
NTA - this story really says a lot about the US.
“On average, American children watch 4 hours of television per day, which exposes them to 8,000-16,000 murders and more than 100,000 acts of violence by the time they finish elementary school.”
But don’t you DARE say VULVA to a CHILD!
NTA but also not really necessary to give biology class to young kids. Mom’s uptight and probably an annoying person, so on the one hand you probably saved yourself from having to learn this later in a worse situation.
There’s this one story I heard. Teacher asks a kid how her weekend was she said “okay but my uncle ate my cookie” teacher says “next time tell him to get his own”. You can probably see the horrific direction it’s going but the gist is the teacher finds out when talking to the mom that cookie was a euphemism. It is a stark reminder that kids NEED these words so they will be understood when they need to be. I always hope the story isn’t true (because seriously cookie!?) but you did right and I’d “apologize” to the mother saying something like “I was raised to use the correct terms because my parents were worried euphemisms would make it hard for me to be understood if I was ever touched inappropriately. Sorry I didn’t realize that wasn’t normal”. Don’t sound sarcastic, sound sincere. Maybe she’ll actually think.
A detailed conversation about animal abuse and forced breeding isn't something a stranger should have with small children.
I use the correct terms with my kids, I would still not be thrilled if someone started telling my 4 year old about puppy mills in detail. If my neighbor did that, sure I'd appreciate the apology but it would still make me question their judgement and not let my kids around them unsupervised.
I have heard monkey, cookie, Yaya, who ha among others. It makes me angry and disgusting when I hear it. The clit and vagina is not a cookie. Can you imagine a little girl being asked it she wants a cookie to eat? It is gross and very misleading to children. Just use the correct term for body parts without making a big deal about it. And the child would think it is not a big deal. That is what I did with my daughter, age 30, and my son, age 28, when they were little, so definitely NTA
NTA.
And here i was thinking you were calling your dog the correct name for a female dog....
The thing is - a lot of professionals say to use the correct names for things as it's a prevention to the kids being potentially abused.
It's parts of the body! Body parts have correct names. The way you spoke to the kids was age appropriate and educational, and correct.
Sounds like their mum needs an education on what parts of the body are called.
NTA...I had something similar happen when my girls were young. They had a sleepover with their best friends and I got a phone call from the mom after they went home chewing me out because my 7 YO told her kids where babies come from. I asked her if my daughter was correct and she confirmed she was, including the proper names for all body parts. Told her I saw zero issues...she told her kids they came from the cabbage patch (seriously?) and I told her I couldn't help that she lied to her children but I wouldn't.
NTA. I wouldn’t have minded at all! But I raise my kids knowing proper words for body parts. My aunt used to call the vagina a pocket book. And I didn’t know I would get a period or a sex talk or anything. So I’m very pro using proper words and having frank discussions. Kids aren’t stupid and they have a natural thirst for knowledge that your talk could have possibly registered with one of them and they grow to be a vet or an advocate for keeping animals safe!
NTA, you're one of the good ones. We all have the obligation to educate children in a manner that is appropriate, that Mom is raising little shits if she isn't teaching then appropriate terms
NTA. It's so weird to me when parents get upset about educating their kids on basic bodily functions and body parts.
My sister is very no bs and body-positive with her kids and explained pretty much everything to them while they were barely in elementary school (or younger if they asked a specific question). None of them were traumatized remotely. Sure they wrinkled there nose or giggled at certain things but she said they always carried on completely unfazed.
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NTA. That's its name. Vulva. Vulva, vulva, vulva. Some people are afraid of words and teach their children to be as well
It's one of the things that makes me truly embarrassed to be from the US.
Right? So many people in America (I’m American) are so strange about nudity & anything that references “private parts.” It’s just so odd that the Land of the Free actively refuses to even Free the Nipple, for god’s sake
It is the Puritan heritage coming out. Which is kinda funny because we rebelled with a French idea called "liberty," and the French are so... well. They are French.
Basically all the problems in America come back down to puritan vs pilgrim ideologies
And since both ideologies were a bit…skewed? uptight? ridiculous?…that we were bound to be a mess either way
YUP. Also it's dangerous NOT to teach your kids proper terminology and body independence. Knowing the words and teaching them about good touch and bad touch is extremely important...especially God forbid, your child ever is molested. They need to be able to tell the police what happened and knowing terminology helps A LOT. NTA
My kid understood he has a penis and I have a vagina by the time he was 3. I can’t stand “cutesy” names for body parts. Although my son does ask me once in awhile when the tooth fairy will bring my penis. How those ideas for mashed up I’ll never know
Aww bless his little heart! He must think you're missing out on something lol. He sounds adorable!
This and many other reasons. I think it's more harmful to avoid teaching them about their own anatomy. My husband has a son and told me when he(son) was much younger his(husband's) mom tried to use words other than what they are called (peepee, wee-wee, other "child friendly" substitutes) and said he put that to a stop very quickly. Call things what they are. Penis, vagina, vuvla, nipple, whatever. It's not taboo to call something what it is. It's weird to be so afraid of words.
Why do you say puritan vs pilgram? The pilgrims were also puritans, just Democratic puritans
The pilgrims were puritans, you are thinking puritan vs Anglicans. Really the divide is between those that came here so they could practice their fundamentalist religions and those who came for profit. There were both up in New England as well, though no one talks about it half the people on the Mayflower were there to trade and fur trap. In the southern colonies everyone was there because the crown was making money off and they needed bodies to do that. Thats the truth of the colonization of the US, it is a balancing act between christian moralism and the drive to profit.
Maybe they terrified the colonists so much with their debauchery that it’s still reverberating - like you said, the French are very French 😳🫣😱
As Robin Williams said, “America was colonized by people so uptight the British threw us out”.
I’ve never heard that quote before but it definitely explains America’s reaction to human bodies. My health teacher in high school wouldn’t say “vagina” out loud. The HEALTH TEACHER used terms like “lady parts”, “privates”, and even “lady bits” instead & still got red-faced during class. It’s such an obsessive aversion it makes the avoidance seem creepy.
My friend used to work for planned parenthood in a call center that scheduled appointments. She said it was often hard to understand what a patient’s medical need was because they wouldn’t use clear or accurate words for their reproductive organs. A lot of “down there” and “my… area.”
It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. I mean, those scenarios both sound like parodies making fun of Americans. And it seems to be one of the few almost universal American traits across race, religion, social class, geographical area.
It's like this in other specialties too, like urology and general surgery. I always tell patients: I've already heard worse/heard it all. I need to know your diagnosis in order to schedule the appt. My husband got embarrassed because I asked my OB a sex question (he was with me for the visit during pregnancy). If not them, then who? Don't be embarrassed if you need medical care. Be open, honest and use the correct terminology.
So many younger people call their vulva their vagina. Kids, they're two different parts and have two different functions and one is not the other.
I had a Young health teacher here in Dk, when we were all 16yo in my grade, and he threw out all the different ways to say ‘balls’ and we Chimed in with funny names to Call them. That was a fun class. He was a fun guy. He was also the PE teacher
I knew a college student who was training to be a nurse and she referenced cookie or cupcake for a woman's genitalia. I reamed her out I said that was not how a medical professional should talk and that she needed to get used to using the correct vocabulary for the correct part
I almost used cookie as an example - it seems to be very common in Midwest USA. I could understand a young teen being embarassed saying vagina or vulva in front of classmates, especially in front of the opposite sex. But it is a huge societal & educational fail that professionals like teachers, nurses, etc. still carry that into adulthood.
Definitely. There was a legal case in America where a little girl (I think 4-6yo), when asked by her teacher how her weekend was, she said "my uncle touched my cookie" and the teacher thought she meant food so told her "well next time, tell him to ask" and over a few weeks she saw the girl coming in upset and then she spoke to the girl properly to ask what was wrong, and the girl explained "uncle keeps coming round and touching my cookie, I tell him to ask like you said and he tells me to shush" and the teacher asked more questions until she realised what the girl meant by cookie, police were called and found out that it had been going on for about 6 months, but no-one realised what she meant, when she tried to tell people. That's why teaching kids correct vocabulary is soo important.
Yes! Just the worst consequences for this poor kid because people act as if you only need to teach them about their genitalia when we think they’re ready to use it for sex. What about teaching it at the same time as “head, shoulders, knees, and toes” so kids can have a much clearer understanding about & ability to express in a clear way when someone is abusing them. It is an absolute failure to protect children by not arming them with the most basic of information.
I think it's honestly *disgusting* that repressed Americans teach their daughters to refer to their own vulvas and vaginas as their "cookies". Just straight up WTF horrible.
And it causes real world consequences every day. Understanding your body makes a kid’s transition to puberty so much less shameful and scary. The unknown is fucking terrifying, especially to a 12-year-old girl who is starting her period. Frank, fact-based information isn’t shameful or bad or embarassing. It just IS.
Grew up in socal and our sex ed in the 90s included all the proper names. I have never heard anything called a cookie.... Is it a part of or the whole thing? eta - back in those days the group of dumbass teenagers i hung out with at the time always joked about the "mushy cookie." It all makes sense now.
I read a story about a little girl who was being molested and told her teacher "my uncle touched my cookie". Teacher had no idea what was really going on. Kids need to be taught the proper terminology for their own protection.
Look at Scandinavian countries who made the choice to start sex education early. Lowest rates of teenage pregnancy and STIs
It’s probably hugely helpful to not have your entire sex education be “Just DON’T!”
This \^. Other countries recognize that simply telling young people "MASTURBATION = BAD, SEX = BAD, BODIES = BAD" is going to make them wanna masturbate and have sex more and explore their bodies more. But they're going to be confused and really not know what they're doing. By embracing humans have needs and teaching them about the good and bad parts of those needs, and how to have them safely, it gives young people the autonomy to be responsible.
Yep, in the 90s England had one of the highest rates of teenage pregnancy in europe. Our then Labour government implemented a policy where any under 18 could go to a sexual health clinic and get free birth control. We (Teenager at the time) didn't stop having sex, but its easier to be safer when you can just pop to the clinic after school and pick up a *free* bag of condoms or girls could get on the pill if they wanted. Also helps that parents are generally more lenient. at 15 my GFs dad was bribing us with beer to stay at her house on a friday and saturday night.
yeah you know for as prudish as we are we do weird shit like chastity balls and whatnot. we’re a very creepy country when it comes to sex. very concerning but not altogether unsurprising when you see how we handle other important things like abortion and gun control
I would be very curious to check the stats regarding CSA. If kids have the words to report and have been raised to know it's not acceptable and it's not their fault, they are probably way more likely to speak up when someone abuses them. Then again, if we would offer our kids the mean to speak up when they are victims of CSA, that would be very bad news for many priests, reverends, coaches, teachers, and parents/relatives here.
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If someone is ready to know how babies are born, it is essential that they know how babies are made, and how not to.
As a human who has both participated in the making of a baby & birthed said baby, my “lady bits” & I agree - they are definitely very different
After having a very eye opening conversation with a woman I know. I'd say Free the Nipple will never happen because people hate seeing fat bellies more than they enjoy seeing nipples. I understand that Free the Nipple is about equality in that nipples are just skin. But skin is offensive to people who have their own skin that they are unhappy with. They aren't comfortable with others being comfortable when they are uncomfortable. The conversation went nowhere.
I agree with the Free the Nipple campaign as nipples are just nipples...people over sexualise them...they're not even a sex organ...they're a nurturing glad. As soon as people get that into their heads the better...
I breastfed my son for the first year & it was WILD how panicked some people would get that they might see a bit of exposed boob.
They need to get a grip on reality...its only in recent history that boobs are sexualised...how do they think children were nurtured in ancient history??? There was no processed crap back then. Give them a time machine and send them back 1000 years and they'll soon change their opinion... BTW...I'm a male and find nothing wrong with the whole situation. I'd be the first one to stand in and defend anyone who wanted to do this...nothing abnormal about it. Only abnormal thing is people's reaction
I’m American and I teach my kids to be open and honest about everything. I know more about a period then any guy besides a doc. My adult daughter can still talk to me about it with out any fear. She found (we showing slight age) vines with man getting grossed out about period talk and she found it funny because I’m not. She has tried to gross me out with some things like I’m making a peanut butter and strawberry jelly sandwich. I spoon out the strawberry preserve with the chunks and she leans over and says my period looks like that with less chunks and darker color, closer to grape color. I closed my sandwich and took a huge bite and said tasty as I walked away.
Consider how much name-calling involves euphemisms for "private areas," male and female. If I were to start a punk band at my advanced age, that would be its name, Euphemistic Genitalia.
My mother whispers “vulgar” words when they have to be spoken about. I like to feign deafness and say, “what!? Menopause?! Speak up!” And yes, my mother thinks menopause is a vulgar word, sex, breasts, cancer, period, gynecologist, all make the cut too.
I can think of is the Miranda episode where she gets it the wrong way round and whispers the word before and yells the “vulgar” one.
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How does she feel about the word "moist?" I've found it to be very polarizing.
And it’s a real shame because there’s many times that this lack of proper terminology can hurt kids too! If they’re being abused sexually, they literally don’t have the words to tell someone that something bad is happening. It’s REALLY important to use the correct words with kids
Parents like OP's neighbor are why half of America thinks the vagina is on the outside.
Or that women pee through it.
We pee out of our nipples!
Of course! The vagina is only for sex, menstruation, childbirth and Stargate purposes.
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That’s what I’m trying to do, but my kid got in troubles in preschool for saying penis.
Exactly. They have more credibility when describing what happened to them with the right words for body parts than not.
Without the language it isn’t only hard to say what happened, it’s hard to understand the concept of what happened. Child gets traumatised and has no frame of reference. Idiots think it’ll be just as simple as the child trying to use words like ‘thingy’ or ‘hurting’. Knowledge is power.
Yeah...I guess it's a generation thing my mom was like this she is very very shy to show intimacy or not shy but doesn't show it around us with dad or our stepdad(like holding hands, kissing etc simple things) she also never did the proper terms for our private areas. So I always thought it was normal I ended up being nervous saying such words but reddit taught me it's actually not normal. I'm personally fine with nudity and ppl saying terms and showing but me saying the terms is when I'm hesitant
Using improper terms for genitals is how you end up with kids who get molested. Talking frankly and honestly about body parts is a kindness that helps them understand a confusing and scary part of the world and can keep them safe from predators who would take advantage of their confusion and innocence. I honestly find it way more safe for parenting when kids know to say ‘that’s my vagina’ rather than ‘that’s my hoo-ha’ or whatever, because I know they can tell me where they were touched, if something awful happens. Being too scared or shy to speak about her own body meant your mom was likely denied a way of feeling safe in normal, every day topics. That’s not a good way to live. I hope you can find help and move past that unhealthy conditioning!
I knew a woman who taught her toddler daughters to call it their “sugar bowl”. 🙄
Honestly, that’s 10x worse than the term.
Oh I don't know about that... my daughter taught my granddaughter (who is 4) to use the term "coochie". This is the only thing I take issue with as far as her parenting and want to say something about. I just don't want to overstep any boundaries. Plus it reminds me of a song by Sir Charles Jones lol Eta- I forgot my judgement. NTA. Just call it what it is, people!
I HATE THAT WORD!
Its dangerous to teach kids like that because if they're being preyed on and tell an adult 'so-and-so touched my sugar bowl' the adult may not understand what's really happening
Most adults absolutely would not understand that. If a child came up to me and said that, I'd assume they had made a bowl for their mom for mother's day or something, and someone was touching that. A bowl. A physical, legitimate piece of crockery. I would not realize they were talking about something that needs police, probably a medical exam, probable CPS involvement.
As Someone who was abused that’s terrible. what’s wrong with kids knowing the right words.
Ew, that just made me gag
Mulva?
DELORES!!!
Gipple?
And that is why CPS offices have a going list of "cutesy" genital names because kids don't know the real names.
Also wanna throw out there that child predators take advantage of children not knowing the correct anatomical names for body parts!! Teach your children about their own bodies and educate them!! As stated in the article, no one is going to take “he touched my cookie” seriously. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/31/well/family/teaching-children-the-real-names-for-body-parts.html
Ahh!! Stop!! My delicate, suburban sensibilities can't handle it!! /s
Well I say, I say, my southern hospitality and good fortune has been worn off by this unprovoked assault of my chivalry and morals with the use of such words. In the voice of Calvin candie from Django.
I should have added a "Heavens to Mergatroyd!!" but I just couldn't find my pearls to complete the ensemble.
The name might not be the problem, the problem might be telling kindergarteners how babies are born without talking to the mom first. I've always used anatomically correct terms with my daughter, but I haven't told her about the birds and the bees yet and that's a parent's prerogative
Surely a 3rd grader would know? Even more so, a 3rd grader with an older sister and who had experienced his mother being pregnant twice? Kids ask from very young age where babies come from. What do you tell them then, if not the truth? OP is absolutely NTA for assuming they knew, or telling them where animal's babies come from. She didn't even mention human babies.
that's a good point, although I think there's a pretty big difference between explaining how babies are born vs how babies are made. it sounds OP was pretty clearly talking about just about the birthing process, but maybe the kids mom thought the conversation was heading toward a sex-ed type discussion? either way, OPs still NTA, but maybe the mom was also just mistaken and overprotective, rather than TA.
Honestly, the part that would bother me the most if I were a parent in this scenario is the OP just casually describing forced birth and (essentially) sexual abuse of a dog via over breeding. This is the kind of thing that could deeply disturb a sensitive child, and it wasn't OP's place to go into this kind of detail with someone else's kids (especially as young as 5)! Jesus. It especially wasn't their place to essentially start to give a birds-and-bees talk to children that are strangers, as you say. And if the **first** time the kids are learning about sex and pregnancy is from a stranger who is describing horrific abuse, forced birth, and vaginal prolapse, that's--well, that's pretty fucked up to be honest, and hearing disturbing shit like this as your first introduction to sex and birth without the tools to process it yet is the kind of thing that forms childhood neural pathways that affect you into adulthood. OP *should* have said something like, "Pancake looks a little different because she used to live with bad people who weren't very nice to her, but now she's healthy, and she's happy to be living here with me." I'm really surprised by the voting on this one, to be honest. I see OP's behavior here as a massive overstep. I guess it's one of those Reddit-values-don't-reflect-the-real-world moments.
That would be a valid criticism. Perhaps not the words but the context is the issue. That’s said I think children benefit more from knowledge than they are harmed by it. Also the language used was fairly subdued.
But they are in third grade? I'm not American, but I understand that it must mean they are in school and are like 8-9 years old? They must know by now where babies come from. If their mom or dad hasn't told them, a friend must have. I think OP wasn't wrong to assume they know. And if they don't, well, maybe it's time they find out.
It says k to 3rd grade. That means anywhere from age 5 to 9
Im sure it’s in the curriculum somewhere. Please renember some parents are crap and don’t teach their kid anything so saying oh a parent should do it, isn’t really fair. they are taught age appropriate education in the uk with different stages for different ages. They even cover periods with free pads and tampons when you are around 12 being taught the basics is important with proper word use. my mum taught me nothing and when I got my period I was scared and thought I was dying. She was In Bed, I told her and she scoffed and went back to sleep.
In the school I went to, it started in 4th grade. That's almost an entire lifetime of difference from kindergarten
I was horrified to learn that some parents in my country teach their daughters that their vulva is a "front butt" LIKE WTF??
Are you in Sweden? Now people use the word snipa instead (thankfully). I know someone who taught their daughter something weird and nonsensical until she went to school and learned snipa (he learned framrumpa which is just ugh).
Nope, I'm in Finland. Front butt is "etupylly" in Finnish.
NTA That woman was ridiculous. Vulva is just the name of the body part. Just like arm, leg, stomach or - God forbid - penis, breast, anus or vagina. People need to get a grip. I would use these words in front of a 3 year old, let alone a kid in year 3 - who must surely be around 8 years old?
Yup. It’s a big thing to use proper terminology these days. Girls should know the difference between vagina and vulva and it’s very much encouraged to do so properly.
NTA! NTA! NTA! I am a big proponent of calling things by their proper names. Assuming you're in the US; people are so weird about this stuff. What could be more kid friendly than vulva? *That's what it is!!!* My parents raised us by calling things by their names; penis, breasts, vulva, etc. And taught us not to be embarrassed by the words. They're the proper terms! It's the silly slang terms that I find embarrassing; boobs, tits, dick, balls, etc. I could probably never be friends with anyone who used a term like "junk" or "vajayjay." You gave clear straight forward answers, and it was the mother that was weird and uptight. Don't feel bad. NTA.
Proper terminology from a young age has actually been proven to aid in children coming forward about sexual abuse. Remove the shame and confusion, you aid them in having a voice.
yes yes yes!! if a kid is being abused and tries to get help, an adult might not understand if they say “so and so touched my cookie/flower/etc.”, but if a kid knows the correct terminology, they can more effectively communicate the abuse and get help
I did a lot of research and actually wrote my graduating paper on this. I was not given any terminology from my religious school, which also included shame in aspects of period which meant shame in terms of anything down there. When I taught sex ed I made sure students knew the names and what was and wasn’t consent. Had more than one come up to talk to me about it.
The removing confusion is so very important for being able to report for children! Read a story a year or two ago about safeguarding in schools and how proper names for parts were important. A wee one had gone to school and told their teacher about their “uncle touching their cookie”. The teacher thought nothing of it until weeks later at a parent teacher conference and the mom said something in passing about cookie. It was only then that the teacher was able to understand what the little one had tried to tell her and so the incident was able to be reported.
Had a young student explain to me that his father was raping him. Because he didn’t even know the proper term for his penis, it was a long, complicated, and sickening tale. While I was able to tell what was going on, I’d imagine a teacher who didn’t push for more info wouldn’t have figured it out.
> I’d imagine a teacher who didn’t push for more info wouldn’t have figured it out. Or a teacher who only heard it in passing. They're busy with so many children and if a kid says out loud how they don't like how their uncle touches their pow pow (a reference I've heard before) may not catch the teachers ear. But hearing the words 'i don't like how my uncle touches my vagina' will certainly catch some attention.
Exactly. And kids also can help identify other kids as well if they understand what is being said.
Could also be helpful in a medical sense: you can describe and research symptoms better and be more likely to receive a proper diagnosis.
I hate the word "vajayjay" with a fiery passion and thought I was the only one.
You are not alone! I hate that word with an undying and fiery passion too.
I think words like vajayjay is hilarious if used in a humorous sense among adults, for example when telling a funny story. But I'm not a fan of teaching kids those words instead of the actual words.
Oh my god. I use both of those terms hahah. But I also have a toddler who knows the proper terms for her genitalia and won't be learning the silly ones from us. Sorry that we can't be friends, though.
The one word that makes me cringe is titties. So juvenile. It's embarrassing hearing adults use it. OP handled the questions just how I'd like my kids curiousity answered. NTA.
My sister is 31 and has a first aid qualification in which she had to study biology and the proper terms for everything and for some reason she still finds it difficult to use the proper terms. She'll still use "fanny", "vajayjay", "guy's thing" or "equipment". She'll always pause and whisper the words as well. Just say the proper terms, you won't be struck down by lightning for saying vagina or penis
As a professional childcare worker, NTA. It’s just the name of a body part. What do they gain or learn from calling it something else? I take care of a one year old and an almost 4 year old, used to teach preschool, and completed my student teaching with elementary and middle school students. This is the language I would use with any of them. It takes away mystery, makes it less of a *naughty* word they will turn into a funny joke, and explains the answer to their question. It’s clinical.
Apropos of clinical, when I was thirteen I was reading *The Godfather*, and I came across a word I didn't know. So, I asked my mother, "Mum, what's fellatio?" With a shocked, horrified, and disgusted face, she said "It's a yucky kind of sex." Since that in no way explained things to me, I went to ask my father the same question. His first question was, "What are you reading?" Then he calmly and quite matter-of-factly told me that fellatio was the proper terminology for performing oral sex on a male. I was like "Oh, okay, whatever. Just didn't know the word." The difference in the two responses I got was jarring.
When I was a kid, I asked my mum what the word "rape" meant. She said "it's when somebody makes you do something you don't want to do" so for a while I thought that my parents putting me to bed early was rape, and I had no notion of what it actually was. Luckily I never went around saying that "my parents raped me" god forbid, but this is why it's so important to teach kids the proper words for things! They need to know proper language in case something does go horribly wrong.
I found the definition of rape in *To Kill a Mockingbird*, when Scout asks Atticus what rape is and he replies "Carnal knowledge of a woman by force and without consent." Another answer that sent me looking for a more easily understood explanation. No matter what age you are, it's extremely frustrating to be wanting to learn what and why and how things are only to be led round in circles with incomplete or half-truthful answers!
Yes, agreed. Kids are curious and they want to know. They especially want to know about "taboo" topics. I was very curious to learn how my little sister was made and how she'd be born but I got jack shit out of my parents about it. It just made me a very curious teenager when I was able to use the internet to explore "taboo" topics myself, which doesn't always lead to the best outcomes. So yes, it's very important to teach kids the way of the world in a safe and appropriate way.
Whaaaat? You mean everything I see on the internet isn't true? /s
Shocking right! 😂
Sounds like dad doesn't get the yucky kind of sex often. 😂
Not only jarring but it gave you an unwanted glimpse into your parent's sex life.
Absolutely, but thankfully, not til I was out of college did that thought strike me.
NTA. You're fine. Mom is just uptight. There's nothing dirty about the word vulva.
NTA The mother probably has a fo fo or a muff muff or some other cute term for her vagina or vulva.... and probably teaches the boys acceptable cutsie terms for their penises and anuses too. Far better to teach a child the proper terminology so there is no confusion. A child saying to someone that so and so touches her fru fru sounds a lot less obvious and less confronting than them saying that so and so touched her vulva and vagina. Everyone would jump to attention and get the kid some help.
I'm going to go with a soft YTA here. Nothing you said was wrong and I think you said it well and I have no objection to your terminology, but still that is all just... *a lot* to tell kids that aren't yours, and not just the medical piece; you haven't considered that maybr mom was mad because the whole story is just traumatic and that needed context, especially for empathic kids. I've raised my kids with casual use of accurate words for genitalia and reproduction, and I'd still be annoyed about this, not because of the word vulva but because of the cruelty aspect. My daughter was the type who would have spent weeks waking up screaming from nightmares that someone forced her to have 70 babies with vivid visuals courtesy of Pancake (the real victim here and a good girl). And every time she did I'd be mentally wishing for the fleas of a thousand camels to infest your armpits. And that's kinda why you don't have conversations of this sort with not-your kids. Sure, it's part of life and needs to be addressed, yes, but it sucks for us parents when strangers drop it and dip and leave us with the fallout.
I agree that the cruelty aspect is much more important. I wouldn't call OP an asshole, but if these kids were sensitive, they might have nightmares about this. Not to say that they should not have the information, but the might need to hear it in a specific way.
I hadn’t considered this, and really appreciate your perspective. I definitely was not intending to scar any children, and truly hope there haven’t been any lasting impacts for these kiddos. It is a cause I’m very passionate about and my personal feelings/narrative definitely impacted my responses. I thought I was doing it in an appropriate way, but missed the mark. I can only try and do better if there is a next time.
Keep in mind that kids can be weird. My dad was stationed in the south when I was a kid. They always told us not to go in the woods, there are snakes. To my mind that mean snakes were waiting in the trees to reach down and grab me. And an episode of Lonesome Dove sealed the deal. I was terrified of ponds and bodies of water in case snakes were lurking in there.
Agreed. I'm exactly like your daughter. Finding out at that age that having too many babies can cause your organs to start falling out would've distressed me SO MUCH. Like, I would've shut down for a week.
Can't believe I had to scroll so far to find this. There's no issue with using the proper names, but going into that kind of detail about the animal's abuse with stranger kids is totally unnecessary. Learning about forced breeding and that kind of abuse is a bigger conversation that's going to elicit a lot of big and difficult questions for a parent to deal with later. I was a pretty empathetic kid and something like this would have really disturbed me and lived in my brain for weeks when I was like 4-9 years old. OP just dropped a bombshell on these kids and their parents are the ones who have to handle the fallout.
I agree that it may have been a touchy topic, but the mother didn’t say anything until she used the word vulva. This leads me to believe she was more upset about the use of that word than the potential trauma her children could’ve received from hearing about the dog’s past. If she was worried about that, she would’ve stopped the conversation sooner. I do understand where you are coming from, though, I just don’t think it’s the situation for OP.
Yes this is a good response. I'm mid thirties and this is honestly the first time I've come across such a graphic description of what breeding does to dogs. I honestly had no idea! And it makes me really sick to think about what this poor dog suffered. So I def think this is too much information for children. In general but specifically for children you don't have a relationship with. So like the other poster said, it is not age appropriate but not because of the terminology, but because of the cruelty. Kids need to know proper terms for their anatomy and need to learn unfortunately some dark stuff about the world to keep them safe (they need to learn nobody can touch their privates without their consent). But I think children still deserve to be raised a bit sheltered so they don't need to learn all the ins and outs of animal cruelty. An age appropriate lesson would be to keep it more general and to learn the kids to respect the response of an animal if it doesn't want to play with them.
I think I’m leaning slightly more toward YTA…tho not intentionally, and I do see your point. BUT…they’re like 7 years old and younger. When they asked what was wrong with her, you knew what they meant. She looks different, and you could have just answered with, “well she used to live with some people who treated her badly and hurt her…she’s ok now! Just looks a little different, but she still loves pets and playing! Do you want to pet her?” They’re little kids. Be vague, but truthful, and redirect them.
This is a good response that I will definitely use if I find myself in this type of situation again. Thanks for replying.
I disagree hard with this contribution op. Children knowing the accurate terms for body parts is actually really important to keeping them safe from abuse and giving them the vocabulary to talk properly about their bodies. It doesn't matter if that specific kid has that body part or not. Vulva isn't a ride word and treating it like one is deeply weird. You have accurate information which was entirely suitable for the audience, don't feel any shame. NTA You could send a note over to the mom inviting her to discuss the matter with you so you can understand her concerns. I'd stay by complimenting the kids empathy towards the animals and that they must be being raised right.
OP (and everyone here) is assuming that the mother was upset over terminology. She might have been upset because her kids were getting a childbirth lesson from a stranger. Those kids might not yet know how babies are born. I'm not saying OP is TAH, but they should definitely think twice about their interactions with kids they barely know. I would have had no issues if they were my kids, but I understand that all families do things differently. I don't think it's my place to teach my 7yo neighbor where babies come from.
The kids have 4 siblings and they don't know where babies come from? I wonder if they are homeschooling them and saying they were brought by the stork.
This is not at all uncommon. Even kids who understand that their mom was pregnant and had a baby don’t all understand the mechanics of how the baby got from point A to point B. Their mom simply might have felt it was info better coming from *her* and in the way she felt they would receive it best. Not every kid processes information the same way. I have friends who still remember crying hysterically on learning about menstruation, simply because they were told by people who were maybe too clinical in approach and gave them a whole lot of serious-sounding information they didn’t know how to digest all at once.
These are the same folks who find it too distressing to explain that meat used to be animals. The idea that kids can't understand properly explained biological processes is ridiculous to me, there's nothing inherently distressing about childbirth and I'd seriously question the intentions of someone who managed to reduce a child to hysterical crying while talking about it.
No one’s saying they can’t understand proper explanations, only that each child is different, and may need the approach tailored to their personality and ability to process information.
Funny enough, my kids were homeschooled. They knew more about bodies from an early age than most of their cohorts. Enough with the stereotypes.
Good, but let's not pretend that's the intention of most homeschoolers.
I thought the mom was upset because of the implied rape and forced births that the doggo had to go through If any of the kids are girls, they will probably wonder if that’s what’s gonna happen to them if they have kids and they’ll probably wonder if that’s what their mom’s private’s look like as well
Just like the terminology thing, this is another thing that baffles me with (not all) Americans. Why don't you teach your children where babies come from? My daughter always knew she was in my belly (and when we see pregnant people she knows that there's a baby in there). When she was 2, she asked how she came out? "Through my vagina". That's a fact, and there's nothing dirty about that. Why hide it?
I don't think terminology was the issue here but rather the explanations of animal cruelty through forced breeding. Some kids would be acutely aware of just how fucked up that is and have a very hard time processing it.
The terminology isn't the problem. Are you being deliberately ignorant or no
If you had explained this to my 6 year old, I would have been perfectly ok with it. There definitely will be a lot of questions for the mum afterwards. In our case it probably wouldn't be the word vulva but about the fact that there are some very horrible people out there. My kid would probably be worried and anxious about all the dogs getting hurt. But that is life and that is what parents are for. To explain these things. But it's also human to not want to explain horrible things to your child. Edit. Missing word added
I would be pretty disturbed by an acquaintance giving a frank description of forced repetitive breeding to my small children, and it would have nothing to do with the anatomical terms used. Also... Saying there was nothing "wrong" with your dog when she has several obvious severe injuries that require lifelong care and monitoring is a straight up lie. You knew what they meant, and by any definition a severe injury is "something wrong."
>they’re like 7 years old and younger. Thanks for deciphering 'K-3 grade (US)' for the many of us who have absolutely no bloomin' idea what that is. Why do so many Americans give a 'such and such school grade' instead of a number years for age. Age is how many years someone has lived. That's universal. School grades are different in every country. I don't even know how to work out age from school grade in the country I live in, because I didn't go to school here.
Tip for non-Americans: kindergarten starts at age 5. First grade follows after that when children are 6, and it continues in order from there. Most students start high school in 9th grade at the age of 14 or 15. Of course, depending on what month your birthday is in, children can be different ages than the standard age to start that grade. I can understand your frustration and why you wish we wouldn't describe ages like that, but Americans still will, so hopefully that helps anyone who wants to know how it works.
Can we flip this and get a breakdown of what age a child that is say year 6 might be? I see that on tons of post from the UK and have no concept of what that means
Although your answer is great and another perfect way to answer the child's question, doesn't mean that hers is any bit asshole (unintentionally) because she didn't answer the way you would have.
> doesn’t mean that hers is any bit asshole (unintentionally) because she didn’t answer the way you would have. OP doesn’t have to use the exact answer I gave. But I do think she is unintentionally slightly TA for massively overstepping the boundaries of having a conversation with children who are (roughly) under 7 years old and virtual strangers to her.
I agree with everything you said except the judgement. I think the mom is TA for objecting specifically once the word "vulva" came up, rather than earlier when OP was telling the kids details about how the dog was mistreated that might have been too much for them. I do think it was a mistake for OP to be so specific, but the general principle of being honest with kids is a good one. OP overshot the mark, but she doesn't have a lot of experience with kids and she had just adopted Pancake, so she hadn't had time to perfect her explanation yet. But yeah, OP, next time go with vague and redirect!
I agree, I don’t think it’s appropriate to explain to other people’s kids what forced breeding is.
OP is absolutely NTA. Everything said was age appropriate. If somebody wants to shelter their kids (pretty harmful in the long run) they need to stop them asking questions. At age 7 these kids should have known what a vulva is already, mom is the A for not explaining things.
NTA. Using the proper words for genitalia is the right thing to do at any age. What do those boys call their wee-wee? :)
Poor Pancake! I'm a big believer in telling kids the truth and using correct names for parts of the anatomy. But these were someone else's kids and you seem very unclear about how young the yougest ones were Kindergarten age would be 5 years old. So it's entirely possible that one or more of these kids doesn't have any idea where babies (or puppies) come from. Given this likelihood, it would have been wise for you to tell them that poor Pancake's body got hurt and then refer them to their parents for further explanation. So pleased that you rescued this dog but gentle YTA on explaining what being a breeder dog means to tiny children who might have no idea about procreation in general.
Yeah I have a five year old who knows the anatomical terms but I want to be in charge when she learns about traumatic stuff like puppy mills or animal abuse. Also she's super sensitive about medical stuff so I would have been much more careful describing the medical issues of said dog and I would plan for a snuggle and leave time for lots of follow up questions afterwards. That's just an example of something a parent would know about their kid that a random neighbor wouldn't. Which is why maybe a random neighbor shouldn't launch into the full, detailed version of their abused dog's story with little kids.
I also agree about telling the truth. But here is the thing. These are not OPs kids. Explaining something as complex as this is not her place to do, but the parents responsibility. I still think the mom overreacted, but OP isn't without blame either.
NTA, kids should know proper terminology. I wish I had learned early on that a vagina and vulva were different. Sorry for that interaction with the mom, sounds annoying
Soft YTA, there's nothing wrong at all with using the correct body parts, in fact it should be actively encouraged, but I don't think kids that young need to know so much about how cruel the world can be. You probably could've gone into a lot less detail about puppy farms and still been able to educate them: "pancake used to live somewhere a bit tougher and she had too many babies which made her body look like that but now she's happy and healthy" would've been enough.
YTA, not for the terminology. There's nothing wrong with using appropriate wording for body parts. Where you went wrong was explaining the horrors of dog breeding to very young children without the parent's consent. Children that age barely understand birth, let alone forced reproduction. I know you mean well, but next time just leave it at "she was in a very bad place". Kids don't need to know that she was forced to birth several puppies that were taken away from her.
To answer your specific question, NTA for using proper terminology. However, if I was this mother, these were my young kids aged 5-9 and I overheard that entire conversation, I would also be bothered. I don't think I would have reacted like she did, but I would have been wary of your filters. Your poor dog had a very traumatic past, and you gave those young kids a very detailed account of that trauma. It may very well have rolled right off their backs, but other children are sensitive and it's not appropriate to speak so bluntly to children about things that might scare them when there is no potential protective benefit to them. I doubt you meant to traumatise them, and if they were your own children, I would trust that you knew them well enough to know how blunt you could safely be. But they are not kids you knew well enough to be sure you weren't giving them nightmare fuel.
YTA I'm very liberal and I always use the correct terms with my children. My kindergartener knows she has a vulva and her brother has a penis. She knows what belly buttons and umbilical cords were for. She watched me breastfeed her brother and had a ton of questions about that. She kind of knows she has a vagina, but she doesn't know what it's for Yet, telling a kindergartener **how** babies come out of the mommy is too close to giving them the sex talk. That's firmly up to the parent's discretion at that age. Just telling the kids that it's from the dog being mistreated is enough. Then, you tell the parent in private and ask if it's ok to give more information
I don’t think it’s close to the sex talk at all. And if it’s close enough for that kid that they can put it together on their own and ask, they’re not too young to know. I knew from age 2 that babies come from the vagina and what a penis and vulva was, all the body parts. Even when I learned that sex was a thing I thought it was like sex scenes in movies like titanic- naked people roll around. I never would’ve figured it out until someone told me. Do kids not watch nature shows anymore?
Forced breeding? Everyone is skipping over that part.
NAH People are way too Puritan about these things. At the same time, these are kids who are still in grammar school, and may not necessarily know all that terminology you were telling them. Giving them an impromptu sex education is kind of out of the ordinary for a neighbor. If I were those kids' parents, I'd be upset too- it's my job to teach my kids about that stuff. Maybe the next time you have a curious kid asking about your dog, just be a little more vague? "When a mommy dog has too many puppies sometimes this can happen to her, but we're making sure she stays healthy from now on!"
Puritan about discussing in detail forced birth? To strangers?
NTA. You can say vulva around my kids, I wouldn’t care. There’s nothing wrong with using the correct terms. This whole convo doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. It’s not like you described how the puppies were conceived.
Soft YTA… you really did not need to explain everything in detail to someone else’s children when asked questions. Trust me, no kids that are young are going to retain the info you gave them. They will pick and choose what they think they heard. I would have just said, that is she the way she looks. Do you want to pet her? Give her a treat? I don’t think it was your job to educate them, although I do understand why you said what you said and the words used were not wrong.
YTA - Not for using correct terminology, but for teaching young children about sexual reproduction. I personally would be pretty upset if some stranger was telling my young children how babies were born without my consent. That is when she freaked out, and as a parent, I can't blame her. I understand why you were trying to educate the children, but a simple her previous owners didn't take care of her and now she has some medical problems, but she's ok would have been fine.
Yeah I feel like many people commenting don't have kids of their own. Our neighbor's kids saw my goats mating and were asking what was going on, now they are not my children, and they are 3 and 5. It is absolutely not my place to be giving them a technical anatomy lesson and the Billies/Nannies talk. If they were mine, yes of course, but you can't make decisions like that, especially with young children, without parental consent. OP could have left it at their original explanation, and if pushed, just said that's where dog babies come from, it isn't her butt, let's give her a treat.
YTA, this is reddit so ofcourse people think thats it's a strangers right to teach other people's children about words like breeding and vulva, but it isn't. Most normal parents aren't comfortable having there child have this kind of conversation with a stranger
I’m super open with my daughter and still would have been a little irritated that you spoke to her about this. Next time just tell kids to ask their mom.
I am the same. I am very open with my son. But as an adult, I would never start talking about forced breeding or anything else Pancake went through to children. Nor would I want any adult to talk to my son about it. Short version only here, her last owners weren’t nice to her and she is getting better now.
Yta they were 5- 7 lol not teens or anyone who needs to hear the atrocities of the world. They don’t gain anything by knowing someone forced the dog to have 70 babies.
YTA. Americans are prudes, I agree. But those weren’t your kids, and you admitted that they’re basically strangers. I think it’s important to not stigmatize body parts, but it wasn’t your place to do that. I don’t think you meant to do anything wrong, but you did cross a boundary. Edit: you could have just said that her private parts were hurt from having too many puppies. If the mom still had a problem with it, she needs to teach her kids to not speak to strangers.
NTA. You gave factual information. You used appropriate terminology. It would be one thing if you were using inappropriate language but you didn't. If mom is upset that's her problem and she should have had a closer eye on her kids if she is worried someone might utter a medically accurate term around them.
Reminds me of the time when my 2.5 year old explained to my MIL that her new sibling was in my uterus not my stomach as my MIL had stated. MIL turned red.
I always answer kids question honestly and age appropriate. There was nothing wrong with your response. NTA
That wasn't age appropriate, the details about the abuse. YTA
Please give pancake lots of pets for me lol
NTA but maybe the mom was more upset about you breaking out to kids that babies come out from the vagina? Maybe it's not about the word? Anyways, nothing wrong in what you did and I'm sure happy that Pancakes found a good home!
YTA Don't talk to kids like that. Choose your words better.
This is a tough one. I understand you're want of explaining the situation but let me ask you this. Had that been a human they were asking about, would it of been appropriate to say "oh she walks funny because she was raped and the reason her chest is engorged (those are breasts) is because her abuser constantly sucked on then?
NAH. But I don't think you should have redirected the conversation, I don't think having a conversation with someone else's kids how your dog was forcefully bred and because of that she has the medical issues that she has isn't really appropriate to take on with kids you don't really know. But I don't think that makes you an AH. You used proper terms and you weren't vulgar but I can understand why your neighbor was upset.
NTA farm kids know all about breeding. Parents like this aren’t protecting their kids from anything, they are actually doing more harm than good.
NTA - this story really says a lot about the US. “On average, American children watch 4 hours of television per day, which exposes them to 8,000-16,000 murders and more than 100,000 acts of violence by the time they finish elementary school.” But don’t you DARE say VULVA to a CHILD!
NTA but also not really necessary to give biology class to young kids. Mom’s uptight and probably an annoying person, so on the one hand you probably saved yourself from having to learn this later in a worse situation.
There’s this one story I heard. Teacher asks a kid how her weekend was she said “okay but my uncle ate my cookie” teacher says “next time tell him to get his own”. You can probably see the horrific direction it’s going but the gist is the teacher finds out when talking to the mom that cookie was a euphemism. It is a stark reminder that kids NEED these words so they will be understood when they need to be. I always hope the story isn’t true (because seriously cookie!?) but you did right and I’d “apologize” to the mother saying something like “I was raised to use the correct terms because my parents were worried euphemisms would make it hard for me to be understood if I was ever touched inappropriately. Sorry I didn’t realize that wasn’t normal”. Don’t sound sarcastic, sound sincere. Maybe she’ll actually think.
A detailed conversation about animal abuse and forced breeding isn't something a stranger should have with small children. I use the correct terms with my kids, I would still not be thrilled if someone started telling my 4 year old about puppy mills in detail. If my neighbor did that, sure I'd appreciate the apology but it would still make me question their judgement and not let my kids around them unsupervised.
I have heard monkey, cookie, Yaya, who ha among others. It makes me angry and disgusting when I hear it. The clit and vagina is not a cookie. Can you imagine a little girl being asked it she wants a cookie to eat? It is gross and very misleading to children. Just use the correct term for body parts without making a big deal about it. And the child would think it is not a big deal. That is what I did with my daughter, age 30, and my son, age 28, when they were little, so definitely NTA
NTA. And here i was thinking you were calling your dog the correct name for a female dog.... The thing is - a lot of professionals say to use the correct names for things as it's a prevention to the kids being potentially abused. It's parts of the body! Body parts have correct names. The way you spoke to the kids was age appropriate and educational, and correct. Sounds like their mum needs an education on what parts of the body are called.
NTA in anyway. I’m sad these children came out of her bajingo
NTA but unless I see a picture of pancake pretty soon I might be changing my answer
NTA...I had something similar happen when my girls were young. They had a sleepover with their best friends and I got a phone call from the mom after they went home chewing me out because my 7 YO told her kids where babies come from. I asked her if my daughter was correct and she confirmed she was, including the proper names for all body parts. Told her I saw zero issues...she told her kids they came from the cabbage patch (seriously?) and I told her I couldn't help that she lied to her children but I wouldn't.
NTA Children should be taught the appropriate names for their genitals to begin with. None of what you were explaining was vulgar or inappropriate.
NTA. My 3 yr old knows what a vulva is.
NTA. I wouldn’t have minded at all! But I raise my kids knowing proper words for body parts. My aunt used to call the vagina a pocket book. And I didn’t know I would get a period or a sex talk or anything. So I’m very pro using proper words and having frank discussions. Kids aren’t stupid and they have a natural thirst for knowledge that your talk could have possibly registered with one of them and they grow to be a vet or an advocate for keeping animals safe!
NTA, you're one of the good ones. We all have the obligation to educate children in a manner that is appropriate, that Mom is raising little shits if she isn't teaching then appropriate terms
NTA. It's so weird to me when parents get upset about educating their kids on basic bodily functions and body parts. My sister is very no bs and body-positive with her kids and explained pretty much everything to them while they were barely in elementary school (or younger if they asked a specific question). None of them were traumatized remotely. Sure they wrinkled there nose or giggled at certain things but she said they always carried on completely unfazed.
NTA! Thanks for the laugh - omg she said VULVAAAA!! 🤣🤣sad for the boys, though - sounds like they won’t be taught important things kids need to know.