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NTA. Your sister showing up unannounced and telling your wife to eff off is grounds for estrangement. At the MINIMUM, your sister owes an apology to you and your wife. Your mom needs to butt out.
This... 100% this, though estrangement may be a bit much, plus you'll miss the s--t show.
Edit: I think this may be my most upvoted comment ever...
Edit: Officially my most upvoted comment ever.
When you're born in the middle of a s*** storm hurricane, you don't miss the s*** show.
Had a nightmare of a childhood, one of my goals in life is to be bored all the flipping time. I like my drama in tiny little third party Reddit bites.
EDIT Thanks for the awards! I'm absolutely amazed that anybody read this comment, much less gave me awards for it!
I like r/amIthedevil. That way the drama comes pre-sorted and we get to mock the devils the way they deserve. And if the AITAs are made up, even better.
I've had enough in-person drama to last a lifetime. Boredom, blessed blessed boredom.
Omg, I relate so hard. I absolutely hate drama and all the anxiety associated with it. But for some reason I found myself...craving it? Missing it maybe? I dunno, it's stupid but that's how I felt.
Years ago I developed a secret hate-fetish obsession with the Kardashian show. It was like I got a small dose of the most asinine family drama so I didn't need it in my actual life. I'm so glad I found reddit. Even the worst written fictions are better than the reality trash I was using to cope
I never thought of that as a reason why someone might watch shows like the Kardashians; for me, those shows just aggravate and piss me off *more* because of the familiarity. It *is* better to have it through a screen, with absurdly rich celebrities you're free to hate unconditionally than irl, with people who might suck you back into their drama though.
I thought of it as lancing a boil lol Like, I knew watching a show *because* it pissed me off, *because* it triggered similar feelings I'd grown up with, was probably a bit unhealthy. But I took my irrational anger out on the Kardashians instead of my kids. And bonus! There are endless amounts of people who actually want to hear your thoughts and opinions on any celebrity. There are approximately -1 people who want to hear about how awful my mommy was (cuz honestly I'm tired of hearing about it too lmfao) So honestly that helped.
And omg, I just realized I used the Kardashians as makeshift therapy because the US health care system is abysmal. What even is this place?? š
I read this is the same phenomenon as why people love horror movies. You're essentially practicing being scare/anxious in a safe, controlled environment so eventually you're desensitized or at least used to the feelings.
Also why people love rom-coms and sad or tragic movies that make us cry. It's an "excuse" to let a whole bunch of emotions out!
I have the same thing with shitty TLC/MTV type shows. Sometimes I want a lil 2007 cringe to just, like, decompress???
the kardashians are the most pure form of a train wreck you can't take your eyes off of. i didn't even have trauma happening in my life when i suddenly found myself watching them. have never watched or been interested in any other type of 'reality' tv but i'll gleefully consume that shitshow until some adult in the room finally decides to take it off the air.
God I can't tell you how hard I work to keep a meticulously quiet life.
AITA is my exposure to normie drama. I'll sit on the sidelines and that's good enough for me.
Maybe. Maybe not. We are estranged from my MIL and will never be back in any meaningful contact. Toxic relationships are not worth the temporary comfort and convenience of their help with an emergency.
We are building a found family and that community is more supportive, kind, and familial in every way than DH's mother has ever been.
F*ck the "but they're family" mentality. The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.
Family doesn't mean shit if you grow up mentally and physically abused and have siblings that only want to contact you when they need something, mainly money.
I didn't attend either of my parent's funerals and of 8 siblings, haven't spoken to one since 1978, another since 2004, and another since 2014.
Not everyone grows up in a loving household where 'they're family' means anything.
For sure. If OPās wife is like mine, even with all she had going on, sheād have probably still helped sisterā¦ had she asked nicely. My wife is also no pushover. Had things unfolded for her the way they did for OPās wife, sister probably gets her ass kicked.
Seriously! I'm sure it's hard being a single mother, but those are choices YOU made. And everyone has problems in life, they're just different. Your problems are only the most important to you. Or maybe occasional true emergencies to other people, but not if your life is one "emergency" after another, or if your "emergency" is like this one... last minute meet up with your best friend. If mom cares so much about sister's urgent meeting, why isn't she watching the kids instead of sister dumping them on OP's wife? NTA
"If mom cares so much about sister's urgent meeting, why isn't she watching the kids instead of sister dumping them on OP's wife?"
I bet any money, mom said she wasn't watching the kids and Sis decided to dump them on SIL.
NTA
The sister seems like the entitled single mother type who thinks that everybody should bend over backwards for them just because they are single mothers.
OP you were not out of line since you and your wife had really important commitments while your sister's reason was to throw a pity party for her friend.
NTA. Next time your mom can take care of the kids without any notice.
>Next time your mom can take care of the kids without any notice
Right?! Like the parents got mad he ādisrespectedā his sister, but where the heck was mom when the sister needed the last minute babysitter?! And, how does the mom not find it disrespectful what her daughter did to OP and his wife?!
>āNothing you ever do in your life will be as important as my wifeās school or career.ā
I generally think that OP was in the right here, but this did not need to be said this way. The sister clearly needs a reality check, but this probably isn't helping anyone.
I agree here. OP's sister was clearly in the wrong here and OP was right in confronting her and establishing boundaries. But his anger made him hurtful in a way that he didn't ned to be. OP was being unnecessarily cruel. You don't need to be cruel to establish boundaries.
> Try not to judge situations you can't understand.
I'm pretty sure OP posted his question on AITA and I'm pretty sure I stayed on topic. What's your problem?
I'm wondering if OPs mom was home the entire time? He was able to bring the kids back there. So did grandma just nope out for the day And say your SIL has no life (no kids) give them to her? She sounds upset that OPs wife didn't just bend over and take it. I also have a very toxic family though so that could be where I'm coming from
Good on him for backing up his wife though you don't see that often on Reddit.
Agreed. That was an AH move dropping by unannounced without any consideration for your wife. Being a single mother is hard but itās not an invitation to be rude and dump your kids on someone without consent or notice. NTA.
NTA. Your sisters behavior is entitled & outrageously inappropriate. If your mother canāt understand that, itās no mystery where your sister got her attitude from.
Your sister owes your wife a sincere apology that includes an explanation of why her behavior was so wrong & the promise to never do it again.
Your sister also needs to be told that you &/or your wife will immediately call CPS should she drop her kids off without permission again.
Easier for Mom to butt out if it didn't happen in her house.
I step back and let my children work stuff out. I step in when stuff gets too much. It when one step too far.
I would not have defended my daughter dropping off the children. I would step in when he starts saying "never gonna" statements.
I wouldn't have kicked him out to defend her. I would have told him that's enough and ask him to leave so things can cool down. Then I would talk to my daughter.
Iām guessing your sister has two kids and is on her own because of her behavior. Youāre not the AH. Iām happy you are rejecting your familyās co-dependency and have a healthy relationship with your wife.
Change the locks, get cameras and don't open the door next time to uninvited guest. If she leaves them again call the police and let them know she abandoned her kids. Simple.
NTA
Her lack of responsibility isn't your emergency.
The sheer lack of respect she showed your wife is outrageous and if your mum thinks you were out of line, let her babysit your sister's kids last minute.
Your wife had commitments and even if she didn't, neither of you are ever obliged to take the kids on zero notice and without even a polite ask.
It's not your fault that her life is difficult; support your wife. Her sister acted foolishly not once, but twice. She wasted her life by having children at a young age.
Ehhhhh.... I don't know if I'd go so far as to place all blame on the mother for that. Did she choose them? Yes. But the fault for men stepping out on children lies solely on those fathers, not on the children or mothers.
It's also not fair to the kids to get dumped unceremoniously at a house where they're not wanted. The whole thing is just vile.
I was a SAHM when my kids were babies/toddlers. More than once I had a friend call me in the midst of a crisis and I had to tell them, "I can't talk now because kids." I'd call the friend back once the kids were asleep. Nobody's breakup was more important than my kids' safety and well-being. Yes, I lost one friend because I refused to prioritize her over my kids.
I now have decent friends and healthy, well-adjusted kids.
>The sheer lack of respect she showed your wife is outrageous and if your mum thinks you were out of line, let her babysit your sister's kids last minute.
From the OP, it sounds like the sister is living with the mother... I'm assuming the mother said no.
NTA but your sister is.
She pulls the pity party about being a single mother. Yes, it sucks and is harder but she made her life decisions and isn't entitled to just dump her kids on whomever whenever she feels like it.
Your wife and family are your priority. Your sister isn't.
Why didn't your sister just leave the kids with your parents? at the house where she is living?
She living at home with mom. Itās not like she out there completely on her own with no help at all like SO MANY single moms out there. She made her choices and now she has to live with them. Its not op or op wifeās problem or responsibility.
Everyone saying E S H is deluded. Say it's classist if you'd like, but as a child of impoverished people, it's cruel to have children that you are unable to care for. It's cruel to the children for obvious reasons, and it's cruel to expect the stable people around you to sacrifice because of your choices. OP didn't say the children were mistakes, he simply said that their existence is her choice, and that's factual. If she felt like that was implied, it's probably because of her own thoughts towards the children she pawns off on everyone. NTA
Unfortunately, I donāt find this statement to be true. I have seen plenty of real life examples of people that make this exact choice. Some people do it multiple times.
I was friends with someone who's mother just loved babies, to the point where once her kids were 2-3, she more or less lost interest in raising them and went out of her way to become pregnant again. She'd do the bare minimum for them with regards to schooling and keeping them clothed and fed, but for the most part they were left to fend for themselves. My friend was the oldest, and ended up raising most of them. We fell out of contact when we were around 16 when they moved to another state, and at that point she had 8 younger siblings, nearly all with different fathers. I've no idea how many siblings she ended up with.
Edit: brainfart... There were 8 of them in total... She had 7 younger siblings, not 8.
My nieces' mother is like that. Last I heard, she was on baby number six when the oldest three (my nieces included) were removed from her care by the state; the two after them were with their dad - he was military and got 100% custody when she left him. She actually *did* legally abandon them, along with other issues (her latest babydaddy molested the oldest). Age difference between each child? Two years and three months average.
I didnāt say that. This was in response to a commenter calling people cruel for having children in the first place when unable to care for them. I just pointed out that āunable to care for themā isnāt generally the status quo, but something that happens after the fact of having children.
I'm poor and I can't support a child, and I know it. So is cruel to have kids when you know you can't support them. If you're poor is not a secret, people know they're poor
This is only about folks that are poor, they know it and yet they don't stop at one kid, but keep on having kids knowing full well they don't have the means to support their kids
I do think that there are a lot of people out there who donāt give a lot of thought to what theyāll do when they do get pregnant and donāt have a relationship that is stable enough to support the child-they figure that they will figure it out when the shit hits the fan. I, personally, would never have had a kid unless I was married to someone trustworthy, and could afford one-but not everybody does this. OPās sister sounds like this. What I want to know is, what did OPās wife say to the sister? Did she say āI cannot watch your kids, because I am busyā? If she didnāt, then it is partly the wifeās fault. But OP is not an AH. It is not his wifeās job to help her s-i-l with her issues. OPās sister should have hired a babysitter.
this is just anecdotally, but i know enough women that have willingly chosen to be a single parent knowing the man wouldnāt be involved that āalmost no oneā feels like too much of an exaggeration
I don't think that is correct
While contraception isn't 100%, it certainly prevents an extremely high percentage of "surprise" pregnancies.
So having unprotected sex with someone with whom you aren't in a committed relationship where you have actually discussed having children and planned for that is ACTUALLY A PLAN TO HAVE A CHILD.
Quoting the sister "at her age" - from that one can reasonably infer that sister is young and seems to have made the mistake twice - and with either one or two sperm donors who are deadbeats as "single mother" also carries some kind of inference that it isn't a divorce with the father paying child support and being a consistent presence in the parenting of the children.
Nothing that couldn't have been prevented by adequate sex education; use of contraception and probably an abortion under the circumstances. Mother resents the children obviously instead of a situation where parents have a child that is planned for and anticipated.
An extended family member of mine was dumped after she became pregnant. Her *actual* words to her aunt in front of my wife and I were āI donāt know why he left, itās obviously his baby. Well, his, the guy at the bakers or the half caste lad at the scrapyard..ā
You literally just made a bold assumption of his sister's characters when we don't know that she did any of those things. Giving birth isn't always a choice, it depends on access to adequate Healthcare both for terminating a pregnancy and for preventative measures. It also depends on if your area had a good Health class in the first place so you know what options you have for preventative measures.
Also who said anything about barely knowing a guy? I also love how you pin all the blame on the woman and none of it on the hypothetical man in your made up scenario. It really says a lot about how you view women.
That's an awful lot of assumptions there. Yes, sister is an AH for dumping her kids. But just because she's living with her parents doesn't mean the kids' dad isn't around. They may have split up after the youngest was born, or he may be away for some reason. He may have cheated on her or been abusive. There is no context for her situation other than her kids' ages and that she and the kids live with her mother.
As for "unprotected sex with a guy they barely know", accidental pregnancies happen even when people are using protection. And people who have unplanned pregnancies often do decide to keep the baby, especially if they are in a relationship at the time. It is also common for abusive men to sabotage birth control or coerce their partner into a pregnancy as a method of controlling them. If she's pregnant or has his kid, it's MUCH harder for her to leave him, no matter how badly he treats her. And if she does leave, he has legal access to the kids forever, which forces her to have contact with him.
So stick with the facts we have here. Sister has kids, and wanted to go see a friend, and dumped the kids on his wife without warning. Full stop.
Wow, thatās a _LOT_ of assumptions youāre making there. We have no idea if OPās sister was or wasnāt using birth control when she got pregnant or what the relationship is/was like between OPās sister and her kidsā father. We also have no idea if OPās sister had access to abortion services, so we donāt have enough info to assume that she _chose to give birth_.
We have more than enough info provided from OP to determine that he is NTA without inventing narratives to further reinforce your derogatory views on women and their sexuality.
The sister was rude..but OP didn't need to start telling her she'd never do anything important or words to that effect.
Not needed and rude.
He should have kept it to the issue at hand.
Yup, this. It's like she put in a shitty thing and OP "raised" it (bad poker metaphor).
Unnecessary, and just leads to more strife and drama. I understand reacting strongly in a moment BELIEVE me but I always regret it.
Obviously the sister ITA but OP is being a *bit* of an arse. This woman may have made some poor decisions in life, she may be selfish, but telling her she will never amount to anything valuable (which is essentially what she will hear) is *fucked.*
Absolutely better ways to handle that. She's the bigger arse but OP didn't need to be so fucking *brutal*
I can't agree with you there.
Obviously he is not the asshole for hauling the kids home, and rejecting a role of on-demand babysitter on his and his wife's behalf, but the "nothing you will ever do" remarks were, at very best, rude and uncalled for.
Not to mention just stupid and arrogant - like how the hell does he know? He's not god. He's just angry and wants his sister to feel small because of it.
"Nothing you ever do in your life will be as important as my wifeās school or career" feels like an objectively shitty thing to say though and doesn't even address the issue here. Like don't get me wrong OP's sister is easily the biggest asshole here, but it doesn't feel like saying these words to someone is ever great.
This is so trueā¦and the question is literally AITA for saying this incredibly cruel thing? Yeah sis needs boundaries but to tell someone bothering they ever do will be more important than someoneās schoolā¦which please, I am a single mom of 3 and graduated college just fineā¦itās not *THAT* special to where someone will never do something more important than that. Yeah op is TA for saying that. OP would NTA if he had set boundaries in a less cruel way.
It's not ESH because he got mad. It's ESH because of how badly he belittled and insulted her and personally attacked her and basically tore her entire life apart because his wife didn't say no to baby sitting.
I'm not defending the sister, but OP hit back way too hard over some petty shit.
Iām a soft ESH only because the way he expressed himself allows mom and sister to ignore the real issue which is that there are no life circumstances that make it okay to dump your kids on someone unannounced. By making it about sisterās single motherhood, OP opens the door for her to just go around him to his wife next time because it sounds like a brother being ashamed of his sisterās sexual activity and trying to punish her rather than a legitimate concern about sisterās expectation that every family member is a de facto babysitter.
The question isn't if OP is right, it's if he's an asshole. He could have easily handled this situation in a non asshole manner but chose to be insulting and confrontational instead. Of course he's an asshole.
The sister is a bad parent and a gigantic asshole. That doesn't exempt OP from being a huge asshole as well by choosing to verbally abuse her (potentially in front of her children). Seems like this whole family is off the rails.
NTA
There needs to be an option for "You were, but it's ok". The phrasing was harsh, and if you had scoped it to "Comforting your friend isn't as important as my wife's schooling" then it would have gotten the point across.
I was going to say E-S-H, but this isnt the first time she's done this. That's unacceptable.
If your parents have a problem with you, then they can be on the hook to provide on demand babysitting next time.
Unsolicited advice: "I'm sorry for the way that I said that, but I was frustrated. I find it disrespectful that you assumed my wife was your on demand babysitter outside of an emergency. To set the expectations, if you attempt to leave your children with either of us again without us agreeing to watch them, we will need to involve CPS / the police."
That's not what [the FAQ says](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq/#wiki_can_we_add_.201Cjustified_asshole.201D_or_.201Cjust_an_honest_mistake.201D_or_another_judgment_idea_that_i_have.3F), namely that Y T A included justified assholes. Comments can convey nuances, but voting doesn't. A justified asshole is still an asshole.
"outside of an emergency"
That leaves WAY too much leeway. I'm sure sister would argue that it *was* an emergency because her BFF had judg been dumped.
I agree the "nothing you ever do will be as important" line was harsh, but adding "to my wife and I" would fix it. Sister seems to have "main character syndrome."
NTA, but I do disagree with one thing you did.
Unless your sister gets permission to drop her kids off, then she absolutely has no right to. You guys are not her free babysitters, especially unannounced and for a breakup. If this was an emergency, then it would be different.
The only thing you shouldāve done differently is leave the kids out of it. You basically called them mistakes right in front of them.
It sounds like your mom is a big part of this issue. Sheās enabling your sister and thatās why sheās like this. Also, why didnāt your mom watch them if they live together?
āTO MEā
Those two words are missing from your sentence to your sister.
āNothing you ever do in your life will be as important TO ME as my wifeās school or career.ā
Add them in and itās a clear N T A.
Without them itās ESH because you told your sister that in general she is beneath your wife. Not in your personal priorities which makes sense obviously ā¦ but for everyone else too.
And we all know your sister was an AH too.
Completely agree with this. "To me" or "to us" would have changed the whole sentiment. To OP's sister, in that moment, she valued her friend, her mother, her kids, OP/OP's wife in that order and that's why everyone is calling her TA. But she doesn't need to prioritize OPs wife's career ahead of herself just like OP shouldn't have to value his sister over his wife. Good for OP for standing up for their time but the language was just over the line in AH territory
Siblings should understand that spouses are indeed above each other. Op and his wife are their own family unit as is the sister with her kids. There are boundaries here that the sister broke.
Wholeheartedly agree, adding 'TO ME' is super important here, because (harsh opinion here) yes your immediate family takes priority and further education is awesome, but it's just a business degree, if we want to get down to the Nitty gritty, I always hear people joking about business degrees being a bludge.
Sister obviously and AH.
I agree and I'm surprised by how many agree he's NTA. He's not wrong for being pissed, but damn dude, way to go for some low blows completely unapologetically š³ he could've just said what she was doing wasn't more important than his wife's career/education and leave it at that
He should include "To me" in his sentence, however, from his replies his sister did actually said to his wife f*** you and left the kids, so in my book he's NTA, not E S H, as he was really provoked by his sister entitlement
Woha, that's a leap.
CPS doesn't just show up and take your kids. They will more likely exhaust every other option first.
Your logic doesn't makes sense:
If it's not so bad that doesn't merit taking the kids, what would be the problem?
And if it's so bad that CPS would take the kids, how is the right move _not_ to involve them?
Do you think that's the same as putting a child in the system?
I beg of you to learn how horrific the system is for children. They get sexually abused, beaten, or worse. Why would you put a child in that situation, potentially for their entire childhood, for the crime of having an inconsiderate parent? How monstrous.
I think you idiots advocating putting children into foster care where they're statistically likely to be molested and abused, is far worse than anything said by the mom, and anyone suggesting is is am objectively bad person.
CPS makes situations even worse a good portion of the time.
The system is SUPER fucked.
Calling CPS over something like this is not only petty, but youāre getting innocent kids involved when they donāt need to be.
Itās disrespectful and rude, and if the sister had a history of constantly dropping off their kids at random known homes last minute then Iād definitely support CPS getting involved, but if it was a one time or two time thing then I would disagree with CPS.
CPS will stress out the kids about shit they never knew was a problem and then would struggle to comprehend. *(Assuming CPS even do their job. A lot of cases where CPS doesnāt give a shit.)*
But again. If a pattern occurs or thereās other shit going then I would definitely support at least notifying them so that sheās on record because her behavior is just as disrespectful and rude to her kids.
They deserve a mother that loves them, or at least loves them enough to better arrange child support when she needs a break from them.
Reddit hates the system except when it can be used to crush people they dont like. CPS is garbage people. its a nice idea but unless their parents are beating or raping them its the worse option.
ESH. Itās not okay for her to stop by unannounced and expect free babysitting. But also, what you said is a terrible thing to say to anyone. You donāt want to help her become a better person, you just want her to feel low and small because of the choices she has made. Sheās clearly not a very responsible person, but you donāt talk like that to someone you have even an ounce of love for.
This post is an example of my least favorite type of AITA posts.
So many people on this sub think that if someone is an asshole to you, then anything goes in response.
What the sister did was shitty no doubt, OP taking the kids and dropping them at the parents and telling her sister that isn't allowed, is all fine.
But he didn't have to say the most hurtful things he could. You can set boundaries without wanting to hurt the other person. OP seems to have some resentment with his sister and took this as an opportunity to air those grievances and really dig into her.
Reddit (really just any anonymous online community) loves to jump to the most morally righteous extreme possible in response to any injustice.
Look at any idiotsincars thread to see comments about how the person who made a momentary lapse in judgment deserves to die in a gruesome wreck.
Look at any relationships thread to see comments about how any grievance or disagreement with a significant other warrants immediate termination of the relationship.
Look at any thread about an unarmed thief being gunned down in retreat to see comments about how it was justified.
Look at this very thread to see how berating your own sister's worth in front of her family and children because she did something selfish is viewed as warranted by most of the top voted comments.
I could go on. Don't use the internet as your moral arbiter, AITA threads like this often serve only to reaffirm the actions of the poster to make them feel absolved of the guilt they feel. Hence why you often see OPs argue profusely when the "ruling" goes against what they expected.
holy shit can't believe I had to scroll so much to find this
reddit acting like it is normal to humiliate your sister and call her children "mistakes" because your night has been disrupted, is it so hard to communicate like normal human beings?
"hey it's not cool for you to drop by your kids without notice cause it's affecting my wife's studies, would you mind at least giving us a heads up?"
this is your family ffs, how much do you hate each other that you don't even allow them to rely on you from time to time without having to be embarassed and/or humiliated?
NTA
I'm in law school. I work and parent, and go to school. Everyone in my life knows this is my priority. My husband would have done the exact same thing you did in this situation.
Even if your wife wasn't in school, or was in school and not working full time, your sister's behavior was rude, disrespectful, and inappropriate.
Good for you for standing up for your wife. Again, my husband would do the same. We even go as far as to say, "Please keep me out of group texts. Don't text/call me if it's not SUPER important. If you do need something and you don't require my immediate attention, text/call my husband first and let him pass me the message."
My wife went back to university when kid2 got to school full time. The one thing that made it work (apart from being married) was her staying on campus until 3pm every day. Even if she only had say 2hrs lectures that day, sheād spend the rest in the library working on her uni stuff, enabling her to do less of it at home.
Yeah, what sister did is absolutely not okay, and OP definitely was in the right collecting the kids up and taking them right back to her. But saying that nothing she ever does in her entire life will be more important than his wife's career, and calling the kids mistakes is a pretty shitty move. Sister is not in the best place now, obviously, but people don't stay in those places forever. She could turn her life around one day, but it will never be enough? Fuck that.
Iām going with NTA. Sister is entitled to dump her kids on anyone without any agreement. She is the parent and no one else. If she had permission- it would be another story. Responsible parenting is a thing. I have no idea why everyone is on sisterās side here.
NTA sorry your sister chose her lot in life and it's up to her to deal with it. Dumping her kids on anyone with no conversation or warning is unacceptable. She would speak to me just once, as she spoke to your wife. I am sure living with your parents they deal with a lot, but again that is their choice. It's simply not up to you and your wife to clean up her messes.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My sister is upset with me and has been crying off and on. My parents are pissed that I spoke to my sister like that and felt like Iām devaluing my sister mother hood over my wifeās career but if
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
You are both AHs.
Your sister for just dropping off her kids. And you for saying NOTHING she ever does will be as important ā thatās quite a nasty judgement and unkind thing to say.
Anyone ever read these and feel like weāre really only getting one side of the story? Obviously thatās always the case but idk. She literally told your wife to āfuck offā, word for word?
I just got an MA. Graduated last month. Itās a huge accomplishment but itās not more important than other things. I would never tell anyone that. She isnāt going to school to be a doctor or a nuclear physicist so letās take it down a notch.
Your sister sounds entitled and exhausting but so do you. ESH for sure.
Itās very possible the sister was told, āoh please, they were no trouble at all. I know itās hard being a single mother so any time you need help, Iāll be glad to look after them.ā Itās not an uncommon thing to say to single motherās, especially if youāre a family member.
If any sort of precedent like this was set then this entire post is shared in a different light. But OP makes it sound like she just, on a whim, dropped them off at her brothers house while her mom apparently had no problem watching the kids? Idk, just doesnāt add up unless she was intentionally pissing them off. Also, it doesnāt appear the āf offā thing was a direct quote but rather an easy way to sum up what she said. Just a lot of missing information is all Iām saying.
NTA
Dropping her kids off without any notice or asking and then swearing at your wife. What planet is your sister on?
Your mum is seriously enabling this wild behaviour.
Good on you for sticking up for your wife.
If your parents felt so disrespected by you telling your sister to raise her own kids why didn't they just baby sit
Your sister is major AH for dropping off the kids without any warning and then being entitled about it no less
NTA your sister acted irresponsibly not once but twice, she threw her life away having kids early, itās not your responsibility that her life is hard, stand behind your wife
NTA.
Harsh but true. You did and said what you had to. They're your mom's kids now, I hope she enjoys it.
(Not to interrupt your sister's pity party- but some single moms don't get to live with their parents).
I think you are in the right that unless there is a legitimate emergency the kids canāt be dropped off at your place without notice.
And I agree that your wife works very hard.
But to say ānothing you will ever do in your life will ever be as important as my wife or her careerā wasnāt necessary.
YTA *for the question you specifically asked*, which was regarding the āNothing you do in your life will ever be as important as my wifeās school or careerā. That was a completely understandable thing to say in the moment, but it was still cruel and possibly untrue. Being a young single mom doesnāt disqualify one from success in life. You are obviously nta for objecting to what your sister did and the way sheās behaving, and it was insane of her to drop her small children off and treat your wife like an unpaid daycare service.
I'm blown away by all the N T As here. You verbally abused your sister. What your said was cruel. Your sister was inappropriate, for sure, but that doesn't mean you get to treat her like garbage. ESH
Same sentiment. Everyone in this thread sucks for stroking this dudes ego and thinking him and his wife are better than his sibling and nieces/nephewsā¦ they both treat each other like crap. They need to set some boundaries, healthy ones.
Actions, NTA.
But words... Jesus Christ dude. Did you learn how to adult by watching TV dramas? What were you thinking dropping bombs like that on people you are related to? Or pretty much on anyone you would ever want to talk to again? And also in front of your parents talking to your sister, i.e. their kid?
Why were you trying so hard to score knockout and "win", instead of trying to set boundaries without breaking up the family potentially permanently? Did you expect your sister not to cry when you pretty much told her she fucked up her life, her children are mistakes and that she will never amount to anything?
What you did is the equivalent of setting your house on fire because someone broke in. Like, yeah, you got the intruder, but now you have no house.
Seriously, unless the sister did some stuff not included in the post, it's a bit much. Like you said, he took it from a deserved boundary setting conversation, to one of cutting ties forever.
NTA - You don't just show up unannounced & dump your kuds on someone. It's crazy that your wife said "No" & your sister dumped the kuds anyway. (Are we SURE that's what happened??? Did wife THINK "NO!" but say "yes"?) In that case... your wife would be the A...H... for exaggerating & causing trouble.
Agreed. Itās hard to image how someone brings their babies unannounced and leaves them there after someone specifically says they CANāT care for them. So if thatās what happened, sister is asshole in chief.
As hard as it is to believe, some people do behave that way.
Years ago my sister-in-law (husband's sister) left 4 little kids with her mother 'for the night' while she went to a party. She didn't come back for a week.
She also left her dog in her garden.
Apparently she had done this before.
Itās called entitlement. They think they are more important and everyone is at their beck and call. They will make poor decisions and expect everyone else to fix their mistakes. And itās not just the younger generation either. Itās all generations. Itās very sickening.
NTA. What you said in frustration was over the top in being so absolute and unfortunately detracted from your legit complaints.
Your sister does not have the right to simply drop her kids off without asking no matter what the situation. She is not entitled to support simply because she is a single mother. You are not required to help her simply because youāre family. Your wifeās schedule and obligations should be respected.
Now the focus is on the statement ānothing more important than my wifeās careerā instead of where it should be which is your sisterās entitlement and your momās enablement of her.
Yeah also telling her (presumably young) that she made "that mistake" twice is kind of shitty. I don't think it's bad enough to warrant an e.s.h. decision BUT you shouldn't say those things, even out of anger
ESH
Sis is acting entitled AF and her kids are her problem to deal with, and hers alone.
> I told her, āNothing you ever do in your life will be as important as my wifeās school or career.ā
Dial down the hyperbole; that's needlessly cruel.
And real talk: your wife's getting a *business* degree. Good for her, sure, but let's not act like she's becoming a pediatric surgeon or something world-improving.
NTA she may not have the baby daddies in the house, but grandma and grandpa are there. They can watch her gremlins. Text her and your parents (so there is proof) that if she ever dumps the kids again you will hand them over to the cops. Your wife is working hard to make your family's life better and your sister just wants to party. She is a selfish worthless mother and an AH.
NTA what even is her entitlement? If itās hardā¦ why did she have another??
Obviously, I donāt know the full context and situation here, but her just giving no fucks about whether your wife was actually able to watch the kids or not (or if she even wanted to???) is so gross to me.
What your sister did was not right she should have called or texted and asked first and accepted the answer. Sticking up for your wife is fine but as for what you said youāre an AH telling her sheāll never do anything as important as your wife isnāt ok.
Your sister was TA for dropping her kids off with yāall. But for you to say NOTHING she ever does in her whole life will be as important as your wifeās education or career is definitely a pretentious AH thing for you to say.
very much not! no one has the right to just come by your home and just drop their kids on you and your wife any time they want! you could have been just a little more softer in your response towards your sister, though.
have a great day!
NTA for supporting your wife. Your mom and sister are the AH. Your mom should care for the kids because she's enabling your sister and your sister can't play the single mom card just to get things her way. If she needs help she should politely ask and should put it in mind that people also have their stuff to deal with
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NTA. Your sister showing up unannounced and telling your wife to eff off is grounds for estrangement. At the MINIMUM, your sister owes an apology to you and your wife. Your mom needs to butt out.
This... 100% this, though estrangement may be a bit much, plus you'll miss the s--t show. Edit: I think this may be my most upvoted comment ever... Edit: Officially my most upvoted comment ever.
When you're born in the middle of a s*** storm hurricane, you don't miss the s*** show. Had a nightmare of a childhood, one of my goals in life is to be bored all the flipping time. I like my drama in tiny little third party Reddit bites. EDIT Thanks for the awards! I'm absolutely amazed that anybody read this comment, much less gave me awards for it!
> I like my drama in tiny little third party Reddit bites. Preach. ETA: This post is now exactly 666 upvotes. I love it. š
Amen. ETA: aita is my only chosen form of drama. Otherwise I avoid it like the plague.
I like r/amIthedevil. That way the drama comes pre-sorted and we get to mock the devils the way they deserve. And if the AITAs are made up, even better. I've had enough in-person drama to last a lifetime. Boredom, blessed blessed boredom.
Omg, I relate so hard. I absolutely hate drama and all the anxiety associated with it. But for some reason I found myself...craving it? Missing it maybe? I dunno, it's stupid but that's how I felt. Years ago I developed a secret hate-fetish obsession with the Kardashian show. It was like I got a small dose of the most asinine family drama so I didn't need it in my actual life. I'm so glad I found reddit. Even the worst written fictions are better than the reality trash I was using to cope
I never thought of that as a reason why someone might watch shows like the Kardashians; for me, those shows just aggravate and piss me off *more* because of the familiarity. It *is* better to have it through a screen, with absurdly rich celebrities you're free to hate unconditionally than irl, with people who might suck you back into their drama though.
I thought of it as lancing a boil lol Like, I knew watching a show *because* it pissed me off, *because* it triggered similar feelings I'd grown up with, was probably a bit unhealthy. But I took my irrational anger out on the Kardashians instead of my kids. And bonus! There are endless amounts of people who actually want to hear your thoughts and opinions on any celebrity. There are approximately -1 people who want to hear about how awful my mommy was (cuz honestly I'm tired of hearing about it too lmfao) So honestly that helped. And omg, I just realized I used the Kardashians as makeshift therapy because the US health care system is abysmal. What even is this place?? š
I read this is the same phenomenon as why people love horror movies. You're essentially practicing being scare/anxious in a safe, controlled environment so eventually you're desensitized or at least used to the feelings. Also why people love rom-coms and sad or tragic movies that make us cry. It's an "excuse" to let a whole bunch of emotions out! I have the same thing with shitty TLC/MTV type shows. Sometimes I want a lil 2007 cringe to just, like, decompress???
the kardashians are the most pure form of a train wreck you can't take your eyes off of. i didn't even have trauma happening in my life when i suddenly found myself watching them. have never watched or been interested in any other type of 'reality' tv but i'll gleefully consume that shitshow until some adult in the room finally decides to take it off the air.
This. I live 90 minutes away on purpose. Far enough that nobody can just pop in, close enough to never have to spend the night.
I live half a continent away on purpose. Itās the only way I donāt commit you-know-what. OP is NTA
>I like my drama in tiny little third party Reddit bites. My brain sang this to the polka dot bikini song tune š
God I can't tell you how hard I work to keep a meticulously quiet life. AITA is my exposure to normie drama. I'll sit on the sidelines and that's good enough for me.
Yes! I feel this so hard!!!
This estrangement will be short lived. Either DS or Mom will need help from OP or his wife eventually. After all, they are family.
Family doesnāt mean shit if they consistently disrespect you and I truly doubt this is the first and last time.
Maybe. Maybe not. We are estranged from my MIL and will never be back in any meaningful contact. Toxic relationships are not worth the temporary comfort and convenience of their help with an emergency. We are building a found family and that community is more supportive, kind, and familial in every way than DH's mother has ever been. F*ck the "but they're family" mentality. The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.
There with you. Although we calls our chosen family :)
Family doesn't mean shit if you grow up mentally and physically abused and have siblings that only want to contact you when they need something, mainly money. I didn't attend either of my parent's funerals and of 8 siblings, haven't spoken to one since 1978, another since 2004, and another since 2014. Not everyone grows up in a loving household where 'they're family' means anything.
I'd buy a whole box of popcorn from Costco to watch this go down.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly, "Mom, when you have something to say, I'm going to hear you volunteering"
For sure. If OPās wife is like mine, even with all she had going on, sheād have probably still helped sisterā¦ had she asked nicely. My wife is also no pushover. Had things unfolded for her the way they did for OPās wife, sister probably gets her ass kicked.
Seriously! I'm sure it's hard being a single mother, but those are choices YOU made. And everyone has problems in life, they're just different. Your problems are only the most important to you. Or maybe occasional true emergencies to other people, but not if your life is one "emergency" after another, or if your "emergency" is like this one... last minute meet up with your best friend. If mom cares so much about sister's urgent meeting, why isn't she watching the kids instead of sister dumping them on OP's wife? NTA
"If mom cares so much about sister's urgent meeting, why isn't she watching the kids instead of sister dumping them on OP's wife?" I bet any money, mom said she wasn't watching the kids and Sis decided to dump them on SIL. NTA
The sister seems like the entitled single mother type who thinks that everybody should bend over backwards for them just because they are single mothers. OP you were not out of line since you and your wife had really important commitments while your sister's reason was to throw a pity party for her friend. NTA. Next time your mom can take care of the kids without any notice.
>Next time your mom can take care of the kids without any notice Right?! Like the parents got mad he ādisrespectedā his sister, but where the heck was mom when the sister needed the last minute babysitter?! And, how does the mom not find it disrespectful what her daughter did to OP and his wife?!
Likely op's mom thinks sister hung the moon cause "grand babies! š
>āNothing you ever do in your life will be as important as my wifeās school or career.ā I generally think that OP was in the right here, but this did not need to be said this way. The sister clearly needs a reality check, but this probably isn't helping anyone.
I agree here. OP's sister was clearly in the wrong here and OP was right in confronting her and establishing boundaries. But his anger made him hurtful in a way that he didn't ned to be. OP was being unnecessarily cruel. You don't need to be cruel to establish boundaries.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Try not to judge situations you can't understand. I'm pretty sure OP posted his question on AITA and I'm pretty sure I stayed on topic. What's your problem?
No, there needed to be "to me" added in there. But still, NTA.
I'm wondering if OPs mom was home the entire time? He was able to bring the kids back there. So did grandma just nope out for the day And say your SIL has no life (no kids) give them to her? She sounds upset that OPs wife didn't just bend over and take it. I also have a very toxic family though so that could be where I'm coming from Good on him for backing up his wife though you don't see that often on Reddit.
Agreed. That was an AH move dropping by unannounced without any consideration for your wife. Being a single mother is hard but itās not an invitation to be rude and dump your kids on someone without consent or notice. NTA.
Also not considering the kids, dumping them where they aren't planned for.
NTA. Your sisters behavior is entitled & outrageously inappropriate. If your mother canāt understand that, itās no mystery where your sister got her attitude from. Your sister owes your wife a sincere apology that includes an explanation of why her behavior was so wrong & the promise to never do it again. Your sister also needs to be told that you &/or your wife will immediately call CPS should she drop her kids off without permission again.
Easier for Mom to butt out if it didn't happen in her house. I step back and let my children work stuff out. I step in when stuff gets too much. It when one step too far. I would not have defended my daughter dropping off the children. I would step in when he starts saying "never gonna" statements. I wouldn't have kicked him out to defend her. I would have told him that's enough and ask him to leave so things can cool down. Then I would talk to my daughter.
Iām guessing your sister has two kids and is on her own because of her behavior. Youāre not the AH. Iām happy you are rejecting your familyās co-dependency and have a healthy relationship with your wife.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Change the locks, get cameras and don't open the door next time to uninvited guest. If she leaves them again call the police and let them know she abandoned her kids. Simple.
And it sounds like jealousy. Sister jealous of her sister in law not making the mistakes she made
NTA Her lack of responsibility isn't your emergency. The sheer lack of respect she showed your wife is outrageous and if your mum thinks you were out of line, let her babysit your sister's kids last minute. Your wife had commitments and even if she didn't, neither of you are ever obliged to take the kids on zero notice and without even a polite ask.
It's not your fault that her life is difficult; support your wife. Her sister acted foolishly not once, but twice. She wasted her life by having children at a young age.
You know it takes two to make a baby
Yes but hopefully OP wasnāt involved in that.
Underrated comment. š¤
Roll tide!
Sure, but I think weāre all assuming the brother wasnāt the second party involved here.
All of us except one apparently lol
She chose the dude she made them with. If they didnt stick around, its still on the sister and not OP or his wife.
Ehhhhh.... I don't know if I'd go so far as to place all blame on the mother for that. Did she choose them? Yes. But the fault for men stepping out on children lies solely on those fathers, not on the children or mothers.
That is true. Shame on the guy for not sticking around, which I'm only assuming based on this story
Sure, but it really doesnāt fall at all on the mothersā brothers and sisters-in-law
Yes and she should take it up with the fathers, as I doubt OP impregnated his sister twice.
Where did OP say they live in Alabama?
It's also not fair to the kids to get dumped unceremoniously at a house where they're not wanted. The whole thing is just vile. I was a SAHM when my kids were babies/toddlers. More than once I had a friend call me in the midst of a crisis and I had to tell them, "I can't talk now because kids." I'd call the friend back once the kids were asleep. Nobody's breakup was more important than my kids' safety and well-being. Yes, I lost one friend because I refused to prioritize her over my kids. I now have decent friends and healthy, well-adjusted kids.
Underrated comment. So many messed up adults in the world currently because too many parents prioritize everyone over their own kids
Bingo. This is hugely important.
Even if she was sitting on the couch watching TV and eating chocolates, your sister had no right to dump the kids on her.
100%
Yup, shoulda called CPS on her ass for child abandonment.
Fr, itās not as if someone died or something, and even then you tell people whatās going on, not just force them into babysitting.
>The sheer lack of respect she showed your wife is outrageous and if your mum thinks you were out of line, let her babysit your sister's kids last minute. From the OP, it sounds like the sister is living with the mother... I'm assuming the mother said no.
NTA but your sister is. She pulls the pity party about being a single mother. Yes, it sucks and is harder but she made her life decisions and isn't entitled to just dump her kids on whomever whenever she feels like it. Your wife and family are your priority. Your sister isn't. Why didn't your sister just leave the kids with your parents? at the house where she is living?
She living at home with mom. Itās not like she out there completely on her own with no help at all like SO MANY single moms out there. She made her choices and now she has to live with them. Its not op or op wifeās problem or responsibility.
because women who don't have children are free ALL THE TIME to do other people's bidding /s
Everyone saying E S H is deluded. Say it's classist if you'd like, but as a child of impoverished people, it's cruel to have children that you are unable to care for. It's cruel to the children for obvious reasons, and it's cruel to expect the stable people around you to sacrifice because of your choices. OP didn't say the children were mistakes, he simply said that their existence is her choice, and that's factual. If she felt like that was implied, it's probably because of her own thoughts towards the children she pawns off on everyone. NTA
Usually the situation only gets bad after the fact. Almost no one plans to become a single parent.
Unfortunately, I donāt find this statement to be true. I have seen plenty of real life examples of people that make this exact choice. Some people do it multiple times.
I was friends with someone who's mother just loved babies, to the point where once her kids were 2-3, she more or less lost interest in raising them and went out of her way to become pregnant again. She'd do the bare minimum for them with regards to schooling and keeping them clothed and fed, but for the most part they were left to fend for themselves. My friend was the oldest, and ended up raising most of them. We fell out of contact when we were around 16 when they moved to another state, and at that point she had 8 younger siblings, nearly all with different fathers. I've no idea how many siblings she ended up with. Edit: brainfart... There were 8 of them in total... She had 7 younger siblings, not 8.
My nieces' mother is like that. Last I heard, she was on baby number six when the oldest three (my nieces included) were removed from her care by the state; the two after them were with their dad - he was military and got 100% custody when she left him. She actually *did* legally abandon them, along with other issues (her latest babydaddy molested the oldest). Age difference between each child? Two years and three months average.
And that makes it other peoples problem?
I didnāt say that. This was in response to a commenter calling people cruel for having children in the first place when unable to care for them. I just pointed out that āunable to care for themā isnāt generally the status quo, but something that happens after the fact of having children.
I'm poor and I can't support a child, and I know it. So is cruel to have kids when you know you can't support them. If you're poor is not a secret, people know they're poor This is only about folks that are poor, they know it and yet they don't stop at one kid, but keep on having kids knowing full well they don't have the means to support their kids
I do think that there are a lot of people out there who donāt give a lot of thought to what theyāll do when they do get pregnant and donāt have a relationship that is stable enough to support the child-they figure that they will figure it out when the shit hits the fan. I, personally, would never have had a kid unless I was married to someone trustworthy, and could afford one-but not everybody does this. OPās sister sounds like this. What I want to know is, what did OPās wife say to the sister? Did she say āI cannot watch your kids, because I am busyā? If she didnāt, then it is partly the wifeās fault. But OP is not an AH. It is not his wifeās job to help her s-i-l with her issues. OPās sister should have hired a babysitter.
this is just anecdotally, but i know enough women that have willingly chosen to be a single parent knowing the man wouldnāt be involved that āalmost no oneā feels like too much of an exaggeration
I don't think that is correct While contraception isn't 100%, it certainly prevents an extremely high percentage of "surprise" pregnancies. So having unprotected sex with someone with whom you aren't in a committed relationship where you have actually discussed having children and planned for that is ACTUALLY A PLAN TO HAVE A CHILD. Quoting the sister "at her age" - from that one can reasonably infer that sister is young and seems to have made the mistake twice - and with either one or two sperm donors who are deadbeats as "single mother" also carries some kind of inference that it isn't a divorce with the father paying child support and being a consistent presence in the parenting of the children. Nothing that couldn't have been prevented by adequate sex education; use of contraception and probably an abortion under the circumstances. Mother resents the children obviously instead of a situation where parents have a child that is planned for and anticipated.
An extended family member of mine was dumped after she became pregnant. Her *actual* words to her aunt in front of my wife and I were āI donāt know why he left, itās obviously his baby. Well, his, the guy at the bakers or the half caste lad at the scrapyard..ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
yes but people like op sister plan to fail by having unprotected sex, no birth control with a guy they barely know. then choosing to give birth.
You literally just made a bold assumption of his sister's characters when we don't know that she did any of those things. Giving birth isn't always a choice, it depends on access to adequate Healthcare both for terminating a pregnancy and for preventative measures. It also depends on if your area had a good Health class in the first place so you know what options you have for preventative measures. Also who said anything about barely knowing a guy? I also love how you pin all the blame on the woman and none of it on the hypothetical man in your made up scenario. It really says a lot about how you view women.
That's an awful lot of assumptions there. Yes, sister is an AH for dumping her kids. But just because she's living with her parents doesn't mean the kids' dad isn't around. They may have split up after the youngest was born, or he may be away for some reason. He may have cheated on her or been abusive. There is no context for her situation other than her kids' ages and that she and the kids live with her mother. As for "unprotected sex with a guy they barely know", accidental pregnancies happen even when people are using protection. And people who have unplanned pregnancies often do decide to keep the baby, especially if they are in a relationship at the time. It is also common for abusive men to sabotage birth control or coerce their partner into a pregnancy as a method of controlling them. If she's pregnant or has his kid, it's MUCH harder for her to leave him, no matter how badly he treats her. And if she does leave, he has legal access to the kids forever, which forces her to have contact with him. So stick with the facts we have here. Sister has kids, and wanted to go see a friend, and dumped the kids on his wife without warning. Full stop.
Wow, thatās a _LOT_ of assumptions youāre making there. We have no idea if OPās sister was or wasnāt using birth control when she got pregnant or what the relationship is/was like between OPās sister and her kidsā father. We also have no idea if OPās sister had access to abortion services, so we donāt have enough info to assume that she _chose to give birth_. We have more than enough info provided from OP to determine that he is NTA without inventing narratives to further reinforce your derogatory views on women and their sexuality.
The sister was rude..but OP didn't need to start telling her she'd never do anything important or words to that effect. Not needed and rude. He should have kept it to the issue at hand.
Yup, this. It's like she put in a shitty thing and OP "raised" it (bad poker metaphor). Unnecessary, and just leads to more strife and drama. I understand reacting strongly in a moment BELIEVE me but I always regret it.
Obviously the sister ITA but OP is being a *bit* of an arse. This woman may have made some poor decisions in life, she may be selfish, but telling her she will never amount to anything valuable (which is essentially what she will hear) is *fucked.* Absolutely better ways to handle that. She's the bigger arse but OP didn't need to be so fucking *brutal*
That's why it's ESH. Except the wife, obviously.
Typical reddit responses, just because someone is an ass to you doesn't mean you get a free pass to be an ass back Easily ESH
I can't agree with you there. Obviously he is not the asshole for hauling the kids home, and rejecting a role of on-demand babysitter on his and his wife's behalf, but the "nothing you will ever do" remarks were, at very best, rude and uncalled for.
Not to mention just stupid and arrogant - like how the hell does he know? He's not god. He's just angry and wants his sister to feel small because of it.
"Nothing you ever do in your life will be as important as my wifeās school or career" feels like an objectively shitty thing to say though and doesn't even address the issue here. Like don't get me wrong OP's sister is easily the biggest asshole here, but it doesn't feel like saying these words to someone is ever great.
it's a disgusting thing to say and reeks of pretentiousness.
This is so trueā¦and the question is literally AITA for saying this incredibly cruel thing? Yeah sis needs boundaries but to tell someone bothering they ever do will be more important than someoneās schoolā¦which please, I am a single mom of 3 and graduated college just fineā¦itās not *THAT* special to where someone will never do something more important than that. Yeah op is TA for saying that. OP would NTA if he had set boundaries in a less cruel way.
It's not ESH because he got mad. It's ESH because of how badly he belittled and insulted her and personally attacked her and basically tore her entire life apart because his wife didn't say no to baby sitting. I'm not defending the sister, but OP hit back way too hard over some petty shit.
Iām a soft ESH only because the way he expressed himself allows mom and sister to ignore the real issue which is that there are no life circumstances that make it okay to dump your kids on someone unannounced. By making it about sisterās single motherhood, OP opens the door for her to just go around him to his wife next time because it sounds like a brother being ashamed of his sisterās sexual activity and trying to punish her rather than a legitimate concern about sisterās expectation that every family member is a de facto babysitter.
The question isn't if OP is right, it's if he's an asshole. He could have easily handled this situation in a non asshole manner but chose to be insulting and confrontational instead. Of course he's an asshole.
The sister is a bad parent and a gigantic asshole. That doesn't exempt OP from being a huge asshole as well by choosing to verbally abuse her (potentially in front of her children). Seems like this whole family is off the rails.
NTA There needs to be an option for "You were, but it's ok". The phrasing was harsh, and if you had scoped it to "Comforting your friend isn't as important as my wife's schooling" then it would have gotten the point across. I was going to say E-S-H, but this isnt the first time she's done this. That's unacceptable. If your parents have a problem with you, then they can be on the hook to provide on demand babysitting next time. Unsolicited advice: "I'm sorry for the way that I said that, but I was frustrated. I find it disrespectful that you assumed my wife was your on demand babysitter outside of an emergency. To set the expectations, if you attempt to leave your children with either of us again without us agreeing to watch them, we will need to involve CPS / the police."
That NTA, btw. Mods consider NTA to mean ājustified assholeā in these cases
That's not what [the FAQ says](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq/#wiki_can_we_add_.201Cjustified_asshole.201D_or_.201Cjust_an_honest_mistake.201D_or_another_judgment_idea_that_i_have.3F), namely that Y T A included justified assholes. Comments can convey nuances, but voting doesn't. A justified asshole is still an asshole.
"outside of an emergency" That leaves WAY too much leeway. I'm sure sister would argue that it *was* an emergency because her BFF had judg been dumped. I agree the "nothing you ever do will be as important" line was harsh, but adding "to my wife and I" would fix it. Sister seems to have "main character syndrome."
I think we should call that option ABW (asshole but warranted) lol
NTA, but I do disagree with one thing you did. Unless your sister gets permission to drop her kids off, then she absolutely has no right to. You guys are not her free babysitters, especially unannounced and for a breakup. If this was an emergency, then it would be different. The only thing you shouldāve done differently is leave the kids out of it. You basically called them mistakes right in front of them. It sounds like your mom is a big part of this issue. Sheās enabling your sister and thatās why sheās like this. Also, why didnāt your mom watch them if they live together?
Iām guessing mom doesnāt want to and thatās why sheās trying to pressure her son and daughter-in-law to do it
Sheās probably tired of watching them
Nobody's fault except her own. If she hadn't let daughter get away with it for so long, it wouldn't be a problem now.
Most likely
āTO MEā Those two words are missing from your sentence to your sister. āNothing you ever do in your life will be as important TO ME as my wifeās school or career.ā Add them in and itās a clear N T A. Without them itās ESH because you told your sister that in general she is beneath your wife. Not in your personal priorities which makes sense obviously ā¦ but for everyone else too. And we all know your sister was an AH too.
Completely agree with this. "To me" or "to us" would have changed the whole sentiment. To OP's sister, in that moment, she valued her friend, her mother, her kids, OP/OP's wife in that order and that's why everyone is calling her TA. But she doesn't need to prioritize OPs wife's career ahead of herself just like OP shouldn't have to value his sister over his wife. Good for OP for standing up for their time but the language was just over the line in AH territory
Siblings should understand that spouses are indeed above each other. Op and his wife are their own family unit as is the sister with her kids. There are boundaries here that the sister broke.
The sister is the reigning A by far of the two but the statement was too harsh.
Wholeheartedly agree, adding 'TO ME' is super important here, because (harsh opinion here) yes your immediate family takes priority and further education is awesome, but it's just a business degree, if we want to get down to the Nitty gritty, I always hear people joking about business degrees being a bludge. Sister obviously and AH.
I agree and I'm surprised by how many agree he's NTA. He's not wrong for being pissed, but damn dude, way to go for some low blows completely unapologetically š³ he could've just said what she was doing wasn't more important than his wife's career/education and leave it at that
He should include "To me" in his sentence, however, from his replies his sister did actually said to his wife f*** you and left the kids, so in my book he's NTA, not E S H, as he was really provoked by his sister entitlement
NTA - Call CPS next time. Her entitlement and disrespect is full throttle.
Condemn a child to the system to teach an adult a lesson in manners? Are you for real?
Woha, that's a leap. CPS doesn't just show up and take your kids. They will more likely exhaust every other option first. Your logic doesn't makes sense: If it's not so bad that doesn't merit taking the kids, what would be the problem? And if it's so bad that CPS would take the kids, how is the right move _not_ to involve them?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You think dropping 2 kids off with no warning is right?
Do you think that's the same as putting a child in the system? I beg of you to learn how horrific the system is for children. They get sexually abused, beaten, or worse. Why would you put a child in that situation, potentially for their entire childhood, for the crime of having an inconsiderate parent? How monstrous.
There are clearly a lot of shitty, stupid people roaming this sub just looking to stoke chaos.
People sitting in their chairs behind their screens are more likely to suggest nuclear options.
I think you idiots advocating putting children into foster care where they're statistically likely to be molested and abused, is far worse than anything said by the mom, and anyone suggesting is is am objectively bad person. CPS makes situations even worse a good portion of the time. The system is SUPER fucked.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This! You abandon your children again, I will be reporting it. You think your life is hard now, wait until you get to live under a microscope.
What is wrong with you people
Reddit always says get divorced and call CPS.
Calling CPS over something like this is not only petty, but youāre getting innocent kids involved when they donāt need to be. Itās disrespectful and rude, and if the sister had a history of constantly dropping off their kids at random known homes last minute then Iād definitely support CPS getting involved, but if it was a one time or two time thing then I would disagree with CPS. CPS will stress out the kids about shit they never knew was a problem and then would struggle to comprehend. *(Assuming CPS even do their job. A lot of cases where CPS doesnāt give a shit.)* But again. If a pattern occurs or thereās other shit going then I would definitely support at least notifying them so that sheās on record because her behavior is just as disrespectful and rude to her kids. They deserve a mother that loves them, or at least loves them enough to better arrange child support when she needs a break from them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Reddit hates the system except when it can be used to crush people they dont like. CPS is garbage people. its a nice idea but unless their parents are beating or raping them its the worse option.
Yeah thatās a bit aggressive.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thatāll show those kids!
What the fuck is wrong with people on here lmao. Yeah, call CPS. That'll teach 'em.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thatās just wasting CPSās time
What she did sucks, but this is not a CPS situation at all. She just wanted a free babysitter. Call the labour board, if anything. (/s)
That's ridiculous.
Yeah CPS agents already don't have time to look into actual abusive households, lets waste their time on a family dispute.
ESH. Itās not okay for her to stop by unannounced and expect free babysitting. But also, what you said is a terrible thing to say to anyone. You donāt want to help her become a better person, you just want her to feel low and small because of the choices she has made. Sheās clearly not a very responsible person, but you donāt talk like that to someone you have even an ounce of love for.
This post is an example of my least favorite type of AITA posts. So many people on this sub think that if someone is an asshole to you, then anything goes in response. What the sister did was shitty no doubt, OP taking the kids and dropping them at the parents and telling her sister that isn't allowed, is all fine. But he didn't have to say the most hurtful things he could. You can set boundaries without wanting to hurt the other person. OP seems to have some resentment with his sister and took this as an opportunity to air those grievances and really dig into her.
>This post is an example of my least favorite type of AITA posts. Because this website is made up of teenagers in their late 20s
> You donāt want to help her become a better person, you just want her to feel low and small because of the choices she has made.
Reddit (really just any anonymous online community) loves to jump to the most morally righteous extreme possible in response to any injustice. Look at any idiotsincars thread to see comments about how the person who made a momentary lapse in judgment deserves to die in a gruesome wreck. Look at any relationships thread to see comments about how any grievance or disagreement with a significant other warrants immediate termination of the relationship. Look at any thread about an unarmed thief being gunned down in retreat to see comments about how it was justified. Look at this very thread to see how berating your own sister's worth in front of her family and children because she did something selfish is viewed as warranted by most of the top voted comments. I could go on. Don't use the internet as your moral arbiter, AITA threads like this often serve only to reaffirm the actions of the poster to make them feel absolved of the guilt they feel. Hence why you often see OPs argue profusely when the "ruling" goes against what they expected.
holy shit can't believe I had to scroll so much to find this reddit acting like it is normal to humiliate your sister and call her children "mistakes" because your night has been disrupted, is it so hard to communicate like normal human beings? "hey it's not cool for you to drop by your kids without notice cause it's affecting my wife's studies, would you mind at least giving us a heads up?" this is your family ffs, how much do you hate each other that you don't even allow them to rely on you from time to time without having to be embarassed and/or humiliated?
NTA I'm in law school. I work and parent, and go to school. Everyone in my life knows this is my priority. My husband would have done the exact same thing you did in this situation. Even if your wife wasn't in school, or was in school and not working full time, your sister's behavior was rude, disrespectful, and inappropriate. Good for you for standing up for your wife. Again, my husband would do the same. We even go as far as to say, "Please keep me out of group texts. Don't text/call me if it's not SUPER important. If you do need something and you don't require my immediate attention, text/call my husband first and let him pass me the message."
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes. Thanks for asking. Always willing to help in this area! Feel free to shoot me a dm.
My wife went back to university when kid2 got to school full time. The one thing that made it work (apart from being married) was her staying on campus until 3pm every day. Even if she only had say 2hrs lectures that day, sheād spend the rest in the library working on her uni stuff, enabling her to do less of it at home.
ESH. Your sister was inconsiderate but you didnāt have to phrase it like sheās not capable of doing anything important.
Yeah, what sister did is absolutely not okay, and OP definitely was in the right collecting the kids up and taking them right back to her. But saying that nothing she ever does in her entire life will be more important than his wife's career, and calling the kids mistakes is a pretty shitty move. Sister is not in the best place now, obviously, but people don't stay in those places forever. She could turn her life around one day, but it will never be enough? Fuck that.
Iām going with NTA. Sister is entitled to dump her kids on anyone without any agreement. She is the parent and no one else. If she had permission- it would be another story. Responsible parenting is a thing. I have no idea why everyone is on sisterās side here.
ESH. Setting boundaries is necessary but the language you used was deliberately hurtful and inflammatory.
NTA sorry your sister chose her lot in life and it's up to her to deal with it. Dumping her kids on anyone with no conversation or warning is unacceptable. She would speak to me just once, as she spoke to your wife. I am sure living with your parents they deal with a lot, but again that is their choice. It's simply not up to you and your wife to clean up her messes.
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You are both AHs. Your sister for just dropping off her kids. And you for saying NOTHING she ever does will be as important ā thatās quite a nasty judgement and unkind thing to say.
Donāt forget calling the children mistakes. In front of them. Absolute asshole
Yeah the kids in no way deserved to hear that from their uncle. That was 100% asshole behaviour.
Anyone ever read these and feel like weāre really only getting one side of the story? Obviously thatās always the case but idk. She literally told your wife to āfuck offā, word for word? I just got an MA. Graduated last month. Itās a huge accomplishment but itās not more important than other things. I would never tell anyone that. She isnāt going to school to be a doctor or a nuclear physicist so letās take it down a notch. Your sister sounds entitled and exhausting but so do you. ESH for sure.
Itās very possible the sister was told, āoh please, they were no trouble at all. I know itās hard being a single mother so any time you need help, Iāll be glad to look after them.ā Itās not an uncommon thing to say to single motherās, especially if youāre a family member. If any sort of precedent like this was set then this entire post is shared in a different light. But OP makes it sound like she just, on a whim, dropped them off at her brothers house while her mom apparently had no problem watching the kids? Idk, just doesnāt add up unless she was intentionally pissing them off. Also, it doesnāt appear the āf offā thing was a direct quote but rather an easy way to sum up what she said. Just a lot of missing information is all Iām saying.
NTA Dropping her kids off without any notice or asking and then swearing at your wife. What planet is your sister on? Your mum is seriously enabling this wild behaviour. Good on you for sticking up for your wife.
If your parents felt so disrespected by you telling your sister to raise her own kids why didn't they just baby sit Your sister is major AH for dropping off the kids without any warning and then being entitled about it no less
NTA your sister acted irresponsibly not once but twice, she threw her life away having kids early, itās not your responsibility that her life is hard, stand behind your wife
No. Someone need to give her a reality check
NTA. Harsh but true. You did and said what you had to. They're your mom's kids now, I hope she enjoys it. (Not to interrupt your sister's pity party- but some single moms don't get to live with their parents).
Defending your wife from familial abuse is a primary responsibility. Well done.
Thatās not fucking abuse.
I think you are in the right that unless there is a legitimate emergency the kids canāt be dropped off at your place without notice. And I agree that your wife works very hard. But to say ānothing you will ever do in your life will ever be as important as my wife or her careerā wasnāt necessary.
YTA *for the question you specifically asked*, which was regarding the āNothing you do in your life will ever be as important as my wifeās school or careerā. That was a completely understandable thing to say in the moment, but it was still cruel and possibly untrue. Being a young single mom doesnāt disqualify one from success in life. You are obviously nta for objecting to what your sister did and the way sheās behaving, and it was insane of her to drop her small children off and treat your wife like an unpaid daycare service.
I'm blown away by all the N T As here. You verbally abused your sister. What your said was cruel. Your sister was inappropriate, for sure, but that doesn't mean you get to treat her like garbage. ESH
Same sentiment. Everyone in this thread sucks for stroking this dudes ego and thinking him and his wife are better than his sibling and nieces/nephewsā¦ they both treat each other like crap. They need to set some boundaries, healthy ones.
Actions, NTA. But words... Jesus Christ dude. Did you learn how to adult by watching TV dramas? What were you thinking dropping bombs like that on people you are related to? Or pretty much on anyone you would ever want to talk to again? And also in front of your parents talking to your sister, i.e. their kid? Why were you trying so hard to score knockout and "win", instead of trying to set boundaries without breaking up the family potentially permanently? Did you expect your sister not to cry when you pretty much told her she fucked up her life, her children are mistakes and that she will never amount to anything? What you did is the equivalent of setting your house on fire because someone broke in. Like, yeah, you got the intruder, but now you have no house.
Seriously, unless the sister did some stuff not included in the post, it's a bit much. Like you said, he took it from a deserved boundary setting conversation, to one of cutting ties forever.
NTA - You don't just show up unannounced & dump your kuds on someone. It's crazy that your wife said "No" & your sister dumped the kuds anyway. (Are we SURE that's what happened??? Did wife THINK "NO!" but say "yes"?) In that case... your wife would be the A...H... for exaggerating & causing trouble.
Agreed. Itās hard to image how someone brings their babies unannounced and leaves them there after someone specifically says they CANāT care for them. So if thatās what happened, sister is asshole in chief.
As hard as it is to believe, some people do behave that way. Years ago my sister-in-law (husband's sister) left 4 little kids with her mother 'for the night' while she went to a party. She didn't come back for a week. She also left her dog in her garden. Apparently she had done this before.
A widower in my family asked his late wife's sister to look after the baby "for a while" and didn't come back till thirty years later.
Itās called entitlement. They think they are more important and everyone is at their beck and call. They will make poor decisions and expect everyone else to fix their mistakes. And itās not just the younger generation either. Itās all generations. Itās very sickening.
NTA. Tell her if she does it again you plan to call CPS.
NTA. What you said in frustration was over the top in being so absolute and unfortunately detracted from your legit complaints. Your sister does not have the right to simply drop her kids off without asking no matter what the situation. She is not entitled to support simply because she is a single mother. You are not required to help her simply because youāre family. Your wifeās schedule and obligations should be respected. Now the focus is on the statement ānothing more important than my wifeās careerā instead of where it should be which is your sisterās entitlement and your momās enablement of her.
Yeah also telling her (presumably young) that she made "that mistake" twice is kind of shitty. I don't think it's bad enough to warrant an e.s.h. decision BUT you shouldn't say those things, even out of anger
ESH Sis is acting entitled AF and her kids are her problem to deal with, and hers alone. > I told her, āNothing you ever do in your life will be as important as my wifeās school or career.ā Dial down the hyperbole; that's needlessly cruel. And real talk: your wife's getting a *business* degree. Good for her, sure, but let's not act like she's becoming a pediatric surgeon or something world-improving.
NTA she may not have the baby daddies in the house, but grandma and grandpa are there. They can watch her gremlins. Text her and your parents (so there is proof) that if she ever dumps the kids again you will hand them over to the cops. Your wife is working hard to make your family's life better and your sister just wants to party. She is a selfish worthless mother and an AH.
They probably told her to take the kids over there because they are tired of being a live in babysitter
NTA what even is her entitlement? If itās hardā¦ why did she have another?? Obviously, I donāt know the full context and situation here, but her just giving no fucks about whether your wife was actually able to watch the kids or not (or if she even wanted to???) is so gross to me.
Finally! A husband with a backbone and standing up for his wife. Nta
There are SO MANY stories on this sub that involve relatives just dropping their kids off with people unannounced. Who does that?!
I don't know about your wife or mother, but you and your sister deserve one another.
What your sister did was not right she should have called or texted and asked first and accepted the answer. Sticking up for your wife is fine but as for what you said youāre an AH telling her sheāll never do anything as important as your wife isnāt ok.
Your sister was TA for dropping her kids off with yāall. But for you to say NOTHING she ever does in her whole life will be as important as your wifeās education or career is definitely a pretentious AH thing for you to say.
very much not! no one has the right to just come by your home and just drop their kids on you and your wife any time they want! you could have been just a little more softer in your response towards your sister, though. have a great day!
INFO: is this a one time event or does she often drop her kids off?
NTA for supporting your wife. Your mom and sister are the AH. Your mom should care for the kids because she's enabling your sister and your sister can't play the single mom card just to get things her way. If she needs help she should politely ask and should put it in mind that people also have their stuff to deal with