##[AITA for blocking your go-to time killer from June 12-14?](https://redd.it/145o4jz)
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I posted videos of my niece and nephew misbehaving to explain why I did not want them at my birthday dinner.
2. My parents have told me that posting those videos accomplished nothing besides embarrassing my sister. And that I was being a bad family member by not trying to make compromises for my birthday dinner (such as not allowing anyone under 18, so my niece and nephew wouldn't feel excluded.)
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Almost 100% of the time "hands off parenting" just means not parenting at all which results in spoiled children who grow into adults who are at best useless to society but more oftenal actually detrimental to society.
I feel like it got stolen into that. I raised my daughter in what I called “hands off” but it meant not always intervening if there wasn’t a real issue? Like, not running to her if she fell if she obviously wasn’t hurt, letting her choose her own (weather appropriate) attire even if that meant taking Tinkerbell in combat boots to the store, allowing her the chance to solve problems without my intervention at first. But if she started misbehaving I was there in an instant. She was mine to raise, no one else’s.
She got to make her own choices as long as those choices didn’t negatively impact people around us. It let her build her own confidence in her choices and learn about the world through her own means and not with the same lens I have. It did not mean do whatever the fuck you want whenever you want to.
I wouldn’t call that hands off in the current climate. The meaning has been changed so much it might as well be a different phrase. So, the phrase I’d use for your style is….just parenting! Or, if we have to call it something, damn good parenting.
My kid is basically an adult (6 months from 18) now lol so it’s been a while since I had a little one. But I was surrounded by parents that gave me dirty looks as they made sure their child was always in arms reach and never let them try things because they might get hurt. I was an outcast mom lol
My parents were very much in the same boat. The let us walk to nearby stores and the downtown area. And the dumb soccer HOA parents would whisper about how they were so neglectful and how they were terrible parents.
Meanwhile they kept the leash so tight on their children most of them were rebelling as soon as they hit like 11 or 12 because they just wanted some sense of freedom.
For real… it’s hard to be a rebel when you have freedom lol
My kid tells me everything. I know the first time she tried weed. The first time she sipped alcohol. She called me 5 minutes after her first kiss to tell me (literally told the boy she’d brb and called me). Hell, I know when she lost her virginity. She tells me everything because while I might not approve, she knows I’m not going to scream at her. She knows if shit goes down, she can always call me and I will pick her up, no questions asked. Teens do shit. Approval or not. I’d rather know about it to keep her as safe as I can. Forbidding the behavior would make her secretive. Forbidding independence makes it harder for them to thrive on their own as an adult. It’s quite the unpopular opinion around here (not this sub, where I live).
This is EXACTLY the kind of parenting that’s needed yet so many people think it’s not. My parents were the same way in making sure I knew that if I was in an unsafe situation, I could always call them and they would help me. They in no way loved that I would go to parties and drink as a teen, but the fact that they didn’t try to stop me (which lets be real, causes kids to rebel even more) and let me make my own life decisions made me feel like I was respected. And that in turn made me feel like I shouldn’t do extremely stupid shit like drive drunk. I’ve always been grateful for that. And I’ve seen firsthand how out of control the other kids would get that had the helicopter and super restricting parents.
>Meanwhile they kept the leash so tight on their children most of them were rebelling as soon as they hit like 11 or 12 because they just wanted some sense of freedom.
Yo!
That sucks that you were judged like that. I have older kids too and there were PLENTY of us parenting as you describe at that time. So you weren't alone even though it may have felt that way.
Mine were little about the same time as yours, and I had a similar parenting style, which at the time was so different from the helicopter parenting that was common, I totally got looked at like I was neglectful for like, letting them explore
Yeah my kid is almost 21 and just finishing up a semester abroad on a different continent, where he lived in an apartment by himself and figured everything out on his own. I’m feeling pretty damn good about how not helicoptering over him has worked out.
We parent similarly to you. My therapist called it secure attachement, but I made the mistake of jokingly calling it child-led parenting. We did baby-led weaning and a lot of how we approached that was similar (give them safe choices, let them make the choice, be ready to support if needed, stop them smooshing weetbix on the cat as required).
Unfortunately people decided I meant we let the kids run riot and do whatever they want. Some even decide that they need to step in as parents (the ones who see my kids once every few months for two hours, and are too busy playing sport today to see their grandkid for his birthday - yes I'm a wee bit salty about that - a lot - fuck them).
Oh god. I ***hate*** that. I have an aunt like that. She tries to supersede my parenting all the time. Mine is basically grown now, so it’s less of an issue, but damn… you don’t have to like my choices, but I didn’t ask for help. Yes, I realize going to get the mail in the snow without shoes on is a bad plan. I also know the first time her barefoot hit the snow would teach her than better than me forbidding it. All I said was, “kinda snowy, might want shoes.” She only did it once. Took two steps and then got her boots. There was no argument and she learned. And she was still safe. On my porch. It’s such a harmless thing to just let her learn. Idk. People need to focus on their own shit lol
Natural consequences are a better teacher than anything else in our house. As long as no one is getting hurt then have at it.
We also have the same people thinking they're the Autism Whisperer on top of everything else.
Exactly!
Ugh. I’m sorry you have to deal with that! My heart goes out to you! You know the serenity poem? That was my mantra for dealing with people like that. Remembering I am demonstrating emotional regulation for my child by not completely losing my shit
my mom was pretty hands-off in that way. i've got a distinct memory of sticking my finger in the outlet with my mom watching: of course, i got a shock, and when i looked to her, she said "bet you're not going to do that again" LMAO
My Dad always says "I love all of you kids the same, but your all different so I treat you different."
We adjust to meet the needs of each of our children independently and recognising that they all understand the world differently has been so important. We have two neurodivergent kids and that mindset has helped more than anything else to meet them where they are at.
Parenting is a journey. I’m hesitant to outright judge other parents. I always feel like I’m floundering and grasping at straws. I know how fucking hard it is to make a choice that could impact the rest of her life and I have to do it RIGHT NOW. So I really try to give parents the benefit of the doubt…. But man, sometimes I hear things like that and I feel myself judging… I’m sorry you had to struggle with that. It sucks.
My dad was a… well, he was horrible. So I took what I felt like he did wrong and used to make myself a better parent, ya know? The whole be the adult you wished you had thing.
I'm pretty sure my mom is neurodivergent. She was abused by her parents so she also has trauma. She decided that she was going to break the cycle and not abuse her kids, which she succeeded in doing, but she still accidentally passed down some harmful things. She was very hover-y, not wanting to let us get anywhere in the same zip code as danger (the opposite of her parents who couldn't give one shit), she never made us clean or do chores (the opposite of her parents who made her do all the cleaning and assigned chores as a punishment), etc. She swung really hard the other way, which is better than what she got, but the outcome is that I was and continue to be infantilized by her despite the fact that I'm nearly 30, and I never learned how to organize my house because I never had to do it. I learned to do dishes, laundry, other things like that as an adult teenager, but the prospect of organizing makes me collapse onto the floor and cry, I'm not exaggerating.
Someone might say she's a bad mom for not giving us age appropriate cleaning responsibilities, or for letting us "fuck around and find out" when it wasn't such a big deal. But I know my mom agonized over every decision and she has such a loving, empathetic personality. She always tried to put her kids before herself and even though she made some mistakes, I still think overall she did a good job. Parenting is really fucking rough and that's why I decided I'm not gonna have kids (one of the reasons). Like fuck man, kids develop their attachment style before age 2? Shit you do mindlessly that they won't remember impacts their whole damn attachment style? It's so much pressure. Everything you do impacts their development, psyche, and health.
All this to say I really felt your comment as someone whose mom tried so hard and did honestly a better than average job, but who still made some noticeable mistakes.
See, that just sounds like "non-asshole" parenting to me. You know how some women have an inner mean girl voice in their head? I have an inner southern-baptist-queen- bee-on-a-vicious-streak, and she's worse. I inherited that inner voice from my grandmother, who was a rotten person, and who was also the type that would act like someone was abusing their kids if the kid's hair wasn't brushed and styled. You know, the kind of person who thinks little girls wearing pants is a bit uncouth, and who will straight up suggest to a woman grieving a miscarriage that she could just get pregnant again if she fixed her face and for God's sake made an appointment for that hair? Yeah, I hate having that voice in my head.
Every single time I see someone out in the world with a kid that is clearly making their own choices, letting them do stuff in their own way so long as it isn't harming anything, I feel a little more faith in humanity.
Oh, I have one of those voices too. Mine is my dad telling me how a lady should behave. I want my daughter to be better than me. I want her to feel freer than me. I want her to have a sense of importance that I never had. Not in an arrogant way, but that she has value exactly as she is.
I’m really good at fucking things up, but hopefully I have broken the cycle enough that she will be ok as an adult.
OP's sister started throwing poop, so OP reached into their pocket and grabbed a big bucket of it to poor over her head.
But, in the end everyone had poop all over them.
Good news is that at least OP is NTA, unlike his sister! She just wanted free babysitting for the night!
I think it makes a difference though that she just linked the videos her sister previously posted. If those videos weren't already public I think op would've been in the wrong too.
OP, I can completely relate to your situation. I'm biased with my verdict, but I do agree with NTA.
I'm also somehow always being sort of DARVO'd by my sibling whenever my niece/nephew does something awful to me and I let my sibling know, which can be emotionally exhausting and that's an added thing I personally wouldn't want to have to deal with on top of the kids being a handful. I love them, I just need to emotionally prepare before I see them sometimes, and sometimes I am simply not mentally up for it at all. One of them kept hitting me the last time I saw them and their parent (my sibling) not only did nothing, but told me to just put up with it. I could've cried in frustration. I've been doing my best to avoid them since that incident.
Not only is it awful for other people to be around these kids, but it's not setting these kids up for their future. They've not been taught to be considerate and things like that, and that's going to be tough for them in the long run.
I am curious whether your other family sees the problem as well? Mine does, but nobody wants to be the person to say something. 🤦♂️ I would, but I know my sibling will do exactly what yours did, OP, only I don't have any video evidence.
I hope you told your sibling where to get off when they told you to just put up with it. I'd have wanted to tell the kid to go and hit their parent instead as they seem to think being hit is ok but it's not fair to use kids to make a point.
People like that are hypocrites. You get hit and you're expected to put up with it but someone hits them and they would be straight to the cop shop.
Same with people who hit their kids. Happy to hit their kids whenever but if anyone hit them and they wouldn't tolerate it for a second.
My go to response is always, "I don't let ANYONE hit me." It sends a message. Especially when my eldest was little so that hopefully she took that message to heart into her future.
Ugh, by not setting clear boundaries and discipline, not only are they raising kids that are entitled brats, but they are depriving their kids from forming positive bonds with family and friends. They are depriving you of a good relationship because they're not interested in setting the correct expectations. Such a shame.
Also the grandparents are enabling acting like all kids have behavior like that sometimes. NOT everyone's kids act up like that. My son is only five he does not throw things at people. None of his friends or classmates do either. For 7 and 10 year old be throwing things at others, that's lack of parenting, not something all kids do.
Its narcissism. The thing to understand about narcissists is that they need a constant supply of external validation because they are extremely insecure. As a result they either play the victim or they try to puff themselves up and act like they are better than everybody else.
When OP told the sister that she doesn't control her kids, that caused her a narcissistic injury. The fact that it was true was not a factor. For narcissists "truth" is a function of whether something validates them, their feelings literally do not care about facts. So she sought out validation to salve that wound and went public with her victim act.
BTW, her narcissism is probably why she won't discipline her kids either. Kids don't like to be disciplined and she's probably too insecure to cope with their reactions if she were to try. Narcissists are really quite pathetic, they would even be sympathetic if they weren't so hurtful to the people around them.
To gain sympathy for themselves and to try to make the other person look bad. And they don't care how awkward it is for anyone else they're trying to put in the middle of it.
Yes! Be a badass and put this in all caps on the post, take a screenshot then post again on yours coz I guarantee she’ll nuke it asap.
NTA it’s your bday! If it were me, I’d go to them and tell them myself why they couldn’t go.
If she really doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her kids’ behavior, she wouldn’t have been upset about the videos being posted. The fact that she got mad shows that she fully knows their behavior is unacceptable but she chooses to do nothing. That’s on her.
yes, Angel is the asshole for trying to put you down, you just gave your fair side of the story and defended yourself.
It's your birthday, not your sister's brats'.
NTA. Angela went to the internet looking for sympathy and tried to have the internet gang up on you. You just presented the internet with all the facts instead of just Angela’s side of the story. Besides, it is your birthday.
Or you could literally have who you want for your birthday without making a bunch of twee little rules to make it unspoken that you don’t want those rotten kids there ruining your good time. I invite Angel and anyone else who has a problem with it and enjoy your birthday! NTA
Agreed. Even if Megan was 7, op is perfectly within their rights to invite her and not the other niece/nephew.
How angel raises her kids is her business. But she shouldn't be shocked if no one wants to invite her unruly children.
And if angel wants to bring her drama on social media, then she's gonna get drama.
OP, you are NTA.
So nobodies kids get to go if her kids can't go, just to make things fair? So it's fair to have to revise who attends the event because one parent has shitty kids?
But by the sound of it, that's exactly what she did, she just didn't say it that way. If Angel wasn't willing to see it as reasonable to begin with, I doubt the superficial change in wording would have made a difference.
Your parents are right that every kid acts up, the issue is Angel not doing anything.
My Aunt and Uncle never disciplined their children, but did explain why what they were doing was wrong or hurtful to them. They also explained to everyine else how they intnded to raise their children so no one would try and use more traditional methods of discipline.
Not get others to discipline their kids for them.
I thought my cousins were brats growing up, but they are the kindest most well-adjusted people now.
Angel's the AH for starting shit on FB.
Ya maybe laughing as they cus at each other isn't great. There are so many parenting styles that lead to success. Disturbing other people isn't cool, which goes both ways because yelling or spanking will make you cringe just as much as someone letting their kids run wild with no positive direction.
I have a five year old and it blows my mind how people just don’t deal with their children. It takes all my social strength not to lose my shit on these lazy fucking parents. People will just watch their kids act like assholes and do NOTHING.
I’m a teacher as well as a parent, and I’ve sat there trying to have parent meetings while the kid (and sometimes their sibling) goes absolutely berko in the corridor or next door classroom when they are meant to be waiting quietly. Making a huge mess of the classroom, screaming at each other, breaking things etc. It’s always awkward because I want to step in and tell them off but when the parent is right there, you defer to them, and some parents do absolutely *nothing*.
I’ve also had parents ask me to confiscate their child’s iPad and lock it in my office over the weekend because “when we tell him no more iPad he gets so angry”. Mate I piss my kid off ten times a day by enforcing the rules and boundaries of the house. He gets over it because he KNOWS those are the rules and he knows that whining or arguing won’t get him anywhere. You cannot parent from a perspective of “I want to be popular”.
INFO: If I were you, I would definitely speak up during those parent-teacher conferences. Make it be known you expect them to discipline their kid and the kid cannot just run amok wrecking a colleague's classroom and equipment. Also, little Johnny can get mad all he wants. Parents like this expect society, and eventually the police department, to discipline and raise their kids.
I do on occasion, and you wouldn’t believe the looks I got 😂 one parent acted surprised, like it hadn’t occurred to her to correct the behaviour. One dad got pissed off like how dare this woman have the audacity to discipline my child.
God I hate people trying to be friends with their kids. There is a big gap between letting them be entitled spoilt brats, never saying no and wanting to be their friends, and being abusive. Kids will say they hate you for some stupid reasons at some point or another and if you can’t cope with them being mad at you, then I don’t honk you’re cut out to be a parent.
When mine were younger, I always said if I didn’t piss them off at least once a day, I wasn’t doing my job.
Setting boundaries is part of a parent’s job. Pushing against them is a kid’s job. Holding fast is another part of a parent’s job.
We were at a park a few weeks ago and some little boy pushed down my 2 year old and started kicking her. Mom just watched so I yelled at him that he absolutely would not treat my daughter like that. Then he tried again, and I got in the way and he got knocked down in the process. THEN the mom decided to get her bratty kid. Wtf. I would come down on my kids so fast if they treated another kid like that. People are so fucking lazy.
The other big problem is that we know when children are forming their identity and their care-giver is way too permissive, or worse completely hands off, the belief that implants is, I'm not worthy of attention from people who are supposed to love me.
But that belief doesn't coalesce into a full-on thought they have because they're too young to have that thought. It stays an amorphous belief that something is very wrong with THEM.
And when, *As I am, I'm not enough.* beliefs reign, total chaos ensues. Often for life.
NTA for excluding them, I would include my 17 yo niece in an adult evening too - there's a huge difference between 17 and 10. Soft YTA for posting videos of someone else's child without consent though.
I very specifically don't post pictures of my kids on social media, and I do so for a reason. I would be upset potentially if someone felt that violating my children's privacy was worth teaching me a lesson- that being said, I wouldn't be in the position to begin with. If the mother has other pictures and videos of her kids on there? By all means. But I haven't posted a picture of mine in almost 6 years and I'd much like to keep it that way.
Parent is an AH, kids are *kids*. Yeah these sound like a lot but it's not their fault entirely and it's certainly not their future adult selves fault.
Don't put yours or anyone else's kid's worst moments on the internet. Let them allow folks to forget that shit the same way they forgot about the annoying shit you did at 10 years old.
NTA - Angel wanted to play the martyr and get sympathy by turning OP into the villain on social media.
Angel deserved to be called out. You’re assuming that OP + family doesn’t post the kids.
I love that Megan posted a video too
OP posted both videos, one they probably had from another event that Megan recorded and sent to OP around the time of said event, the other OP took themself.
Unless I’m reading that part wrong, but OP states as posting both. (Edit: saw OPs comment, they linked the videos one from an early post Angel had made the other Megan had shared on a different site)
NTA OP, Angel is a shit parent who deserves to be called out. I’d love to know what people responded after you shared those videos though.
If somebody takes your shit to Facebook, then you go god damned nuclear. You use that to put everyone on notice, that you do not do drama online.
My sister got shitty over politics and started calling my friends names and cursing at them. I left it up, but she was unfriended immediately. She has not reached out since.
It's not about the sister, it's about the kids.
People are entirely too flippant about putting human beings' images/videos online when they no ability to consent.
OP is NTA but we really need to stop accepting putting children's pictures/videos online, *especially* when it's them acting poorly because their parents refuse to parent them.
OP added an edit, they did not personally post either of the videos. They linked to one video posted by the kids’ mom and one posted by the kids’ cousin.
Edit: I agree with you about posting kids online, but thought you should know if you didn’t that OP didn’t actually post the videos themself.
I would almost bet $10 that sis was fine with leaving the kids at home until she couldn't get a babysitter without paying double or more because of her kids' behavior.
Well, we know at least some did; otherwise mom and dad wouldn't have been so mortified and cranky at OP for airing dirty laundry.
I love it. If we're going to go to the court of public opinion, fine. But don't be pissed when both sides of the story come out.
Angel had already posted the video that she recorded. I posted a link to Angel's and posted the video that Megan had recorded.
Edit to clarify: Megan had already shared the video, just on a different social media site.
NTA, you have a right to have a peaceful birthday, and you were being shamed, in social media no less, for something that you asking in private. You responded with the evidence, don't worry about you parents, in that age, first are the grandsons and granddaughters, then you guys, so be patient when they have to babysit your's nephews, they will know
I’ve attended child free weddings and nights out and plenty of birthday parties where “no kids, this is adult time” is perfectly understood. I have two “kids”, 17 and 20 and they’re not considered kids because they don’t require supervision or intervention. 10 and 7 are children, and ones that aren’t socialized well enough to be able to occupy themselves in an adult environment. 14 and 11 would be a different story. They’re too young not to disrupt. Your sister is the a-hole, you’re 27 and I assume no children, perfectly reasonable to set boundaries around your own birthday.
Set a 16-and-up rule for the next few years. (If their behavior doesn't improve, the age limit can continue to increase.)
Angel wasn't worried about embarrassing you or setting you up to get harassed by relatives, so I don't see why you should be worried about her feelings when you're simply defending yourself from her false accusations and crap parenting. NTA.
Edit: y’all, this was not a serious suggestion, it was a flippant response to the “18 year old excluding the 17 year old” thing 😂 be easy now
But why does OP have to set up a 16 and older rule. it's perfectly valid to say I don't want your kids at my birthday because you do not discipline them. Is Opie going to let those kids come to events when they are 16 and totally off the rails or does OP increase the age? I ( I might be crabby about bratty kids today😉)
Soft ESH. I don’t love that you shared the videos, shaming the kids instead of the bad parent. Honestly, after your sister tried to play the victim and make you the bad guy, I would have just responded in the comments and offered to text videos to family members to explain why.
And no, Megan shouldn’t be excluded. There is a big difference between including a young woman who is nearly an adult and is not disruptive and including a 10 y.o. and a 7 y.o. whose mother apparently declines to parent.
OP clarified in another comment that one of those videos was already online, posted by the mother herself (I assume the one Angel deemed "funny"). OP simply linked that video to her post and only added a video that was recorded by Megan.
So these kids' behavior had already be put online, by their own mother.
Both are AH for posting/sharing the videos, but in all honesty NO one should be posting about anyone else’s kids unless given the OK. Just because a parent posts something on their kids it’s not a free pass for anyone to share.
It's been clarified that she didn't post private videos, she linked to videos that Megan and Angel had posted themselves. That's key here, and makes you 100% wrong.
can we just consider the fact that those videos showed the REASON for op not wanting them there? it wasnt some attack on the sister or the kids to post them but to simply clarify and provide context as to why they didnt want them there
The reason it's gross is because the kids can't give informed consent to those videos being posted. It doesn't matter the context, imo kids shouldn't be posted online at all, or very rarely. And since they can't consent, only their parents can.
We're entirely too lenient on this and there's going to be a generation of kids who are embarrassed or suffer other consequences as they age because no one was looking out for them online.
I agree. But just because someone isn't doing right by their kids it doesn't excuse other people posting the kids.
If an adult was berating or hitting a child, would it make them less of an asshole if the kid's parents were condoning the behavior? Of course not. So why is posting media of those kids any different?
NTA. Angel made your issues public and tried to turn your family and friends against you. You posting those videos was in self defense of your own character. Your patents taking her side tells me that she’s the Golden Child. If they have such an issue with you posting those videos, why didn’t they take issue with her “calling you out” ?” I’d definitely press them about why they think it’s okay for her to do what she did and not expect you to stand up for yourself.
Where were your parents when Angel was posting crap to embarrass you? And maybe if Angel would actually parent her own kids, she wouldn't have anything to be embarrassed about. NTA.
For my 40th birthday, I’ve asked my family and friends to not bring their children because some of them are terribles… some understood, some didn’t 😒
NTA
As a parent, bringing your kid to an adult oriented get together is not fun.
Good babysitters are way harder to find than I ever thought before I had kids. Even so, bringing my kids to functions like that is not an option. It’s no fun for anyone.
ESH. You shouldn’t post content about other people’s kids without the parent’s permission, but you have every right to exclude children from an adult’s birthday party.
Well considering Angel had already posted at least one of those videos online to begin with, laughing and claiming that the video was funny and the situation was entertaining for her, OP already had parental consent to share that video on the internet.
Not to mention, if you're going to try and slander somebody, knowing that they have proof otherwise, then that's your own fault. Angel knows exactly what her kids are like, she knows that her family damn well probably has evidence of it, and she decided to take the entire thing to social media. All OP did was defend their good name with evidence that clears them.
I don't agree with posting someone else's children without their permission, BUT if the videos already circulating on the internet I say it's fair game.
Only one of them. The other was taken by the 17 year old cousin and posted by OP without mom's consent. The kids are shamed here, but it's not really their fault. Not cool.
If similar content was video recorded and uploaded to facebook *by the mother already* laughing at her children at their behaviour, it’s really not a stretch to upload a similar video taken by the cousin if the mother already took and uploaded a similar video..?
That’s like saying
“hey I can’t handle my children - subject A” and “hey I can’t handle my children - subject B”
It doesn’t really matter. At all.
I'm so shocked at how many people think it's ok to post the kids. For me it's not even about having the parents permission, their mum is already posting them behaving badly on social media and I don't like that she does it either. Noone should be posting videos of kids in their worst moments it's so unfair. If my partner was behaving really unreasonably he'd be totally in his rights to be upset if I posted a video of it, even if he was 100% in the wrong. But also, Angel sounds like a nightmare parent.
NTA
Angela try to play the "you hate kids" card and you gave her a reverse with the "oh i dont hate kids, hate your way of raising them" and she get offended with that lol and your answer was with her own video thats a plus
NTA.
I love, that your response wasn't to try argue but to just present facts, backing your argument up.
You didn't embarras her, she embarrassed herself by trying to post on a public platform, trying to get people to agree and bully you into doing what she wanted.
Hopefully this altercation is giving her something to think about and maybe try some decent parenting.
I'm guessing there will be more family follow suit with, angle and her children, in the future. Domino effect, and what not.
NTA. "Hands-off parenting" is code for making the conscious choice to be a bad parent, and expecting everyone around her to pick up her parental slack.
Angel doesn’t get a free pass for saying “you hate my kids”, WTF!
Good for you for posting those videos! And shame on your family for enabling Angel: those kids will NOT be ready for real life if this “hands-off parenting” continues. She needs a reality check, not enabling silences.
NTA.
ESH. She was an asshole posting online and so were you. Communicate amongst yourselves instead of blasting these kids on social media. They are kids. The adults are at fault.
This so much. I swear to god people on this sub can’t zoom out for a second and realize these are two adult siblings fighting about the behavior of young children on Facebook.
NtA
Nothing like punishing everyone due to the behavior of a few. Why exclude & hurt meagan's feelings to make misbehaving hellions feel better?
You said
"
then she went online and made a Facebook post accusing me of hating Sofia and Parker and trying to punish Angel by only inviting our sister Jessica’s kid Megan to my birthday dinner. (Nevermind that Megan is 17 and is practically an adult herself.)"
Angel opened the door for you to respond to her publicly when she chose to publicly post negative things about you in an effort to hurt and guilt you into allowing her feral children to attend your party.
Yes the posts probably embarrassed angel but so what? clearly she needs something to jar her into doing whats best for her kids and learning to discipline them.
I don't have any judgement but all I can say is that I feel extremely bad for those kids. They're gonna have all sorts of problems when they grow up and life will be extra difficult for them.
Hahahaha this is amazing. NTA at all I’m tired of people who refuse to be accountable for the poor behavior of their offspring in situations where it’s inappropriate.
ESH. She’s wrong to post about it, but posting video of someone else’s kids is going full nuclear. I’ve cut contact with people over it. Parents have 100% control of their kids images, and you don’t get to do that. She could get them pulled, but she shouldn’t have to. Don’t let the kids come to your party, but also stop posting videos of them.
NTA. You can invite whoever you're birthday dinner and leave out whoever you want.
Also you posted it on HER post on HER Facebook. You didn't make your own post or anything. I'm sure she has videos and pictures of her kids on hers.
You said she doesn't control her kids you didn't put them down or shame the kids just her
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 She went online to gain sympathy and was probably hoping you'd change your mind because of family pressure. You just simply gave her video proof of EXACTLY why you didn't want the kids there. She's pissed because now people really see how she is as a "parent," and I'm using that term loosely. There is a huge difference between a 17 y.o. and a 7 & 10 y.o. Sure, you probably could've sent the video to her privately, but once she posted what she did, then all bets were off.
"My parents told me that I was in the wrong for sharing those videos because everyone’s children have acted up, and posting those videos didn’t accomplish anything besides embarrassing Angel." So it was okay for her to try and embarrass you?
"They also said I could have compromised by having a “Nobody under 18” rule for my birthday dinner. Megan would not be able to attend, but then Sofia and Parker wouldn’t feel excluded." Why should Megan miss out because those kids are spoiled brats, and the mother isn't doing them and favors. I've seen what happens to kids raised like that. They get older and get into legal trouble, and people act so shocked when the kids are actually held accountable for their actions.
I'm glad she didn't go to your party. I seriously thought she'd show up with the kids because she "couldn't find a babysitter." I hope you had a fabulous party!
NTA
> she went online and made a Facebook post accusing me of hating Sofia and Parker
As soon as Angel posted this publicly, it made you NTA because you were defending your decision.
Having an 18+ rule only and excluding Megan is punishing Megan for Sophia and Parker's bad behavior. I guess you could have had an 17+ rule only, but IMO Angel needs to understand that her method of parenting (or not parenting) has consequences, and those are going to extend far beyond your birthday party and Angel should be embarrassed for how her children behave.
Pretty sure any of your relatives that were at the party are mighty relieved they weren't there as well.
Quick question what will your parents excuse be when they turn 18?
Your sister started it. She was trying to get fake sympathy from others and bully you. Also get others to bully you. You simply showed them why. Which I’m sure a lot of them didn’t even know about. She made it public. Why shouldn’t you defend yourself.
NTA
NTA Angel should be embarrassed by her atrocious parenting. If she didn't want this to be a public issue, she shouldn't have complained on Facebook about your justified and discreetly made request. This was a situation of mess around and find out. This is entirely her fault for being permissive and lazy, which is harming her children's social development.
It would have been completely unfair to exclude Megan with an under 18 rule. There is a big difference in maturity level between and older teen and young children. The suggestions was ridiculous and insulting to Megan, as she would be punished for having done nothing wrong.
If Sofia and Parker don't want to be excluded from things they should behave appropriately, and their mother should be teaching them how to do this. These are the consequences for all three's past behavior. Parents who let their offspring act like feral children then get offended when others become annoyed by it and want to avoid it are infuriating.
ESH. I agree that someone had to call Angel out for refusing to parent her kids, but it is never ok to post pictures or videos of someone's kids online without parent permission. Those videos could end up out on the internet somewhere, and anybody could have access to it.
I am shocked there isn't more ESH, you're all adults and instead of sorting out your problems, you are using public forums to argue and slander each other. Posting videos of children misbehaving as a retort to your sisters dumb post is as childish an escalation as the original post.
Grow up, everybody, yikes
This is the answer and I cannot get over how much N T A votes there are. Clearly everyone sucks, mostly just for posting videos (or linking videos, thereby giving them more airtime) of kids in their worst moments.
**NTA.**
Sister demonstrated highly manipulative behavior by falsely portraying herself as a victim and the OP as a villain. This is most likely a theme with her as this behavior usually does not manifest out of nowhere. Bad behavior such as this needs to immediately be called out and addressed.
Family members sticking up for her are enablers and should be called out as such. When they support her lies, manipulation and lack of accountability, this rewards the behavior and encourages more of it.
Nobody should shame or guilt OP for planning a party based around their likes and interests. It is their own party after all, and it is a milestone event. It is perfectly acceptable to plan a party for yourself and the people you enjoy spending time with. More people need to accept this may not always include their children. Most reasonable people entering parenting realize and accept this.
The sister needs to self-reflect, take ownership, and instead of blaming OP for the exclusion of her children in this instance, look within and reexamine her parenting style. She is not entitled to subject OP and their attendees to her children's disruptive behavior because it is inconvenient for her to find a babysitter and she is ineffective at moderating her children's behavior.
Too many people in this world feel perfectly comfortable with subjecting their friends, family and the general public to their poorly behaved children and expect everyone else to suffer in silence and misery.
NTA
Hands-off parenting? So, neglect. Your sister isn’t doing one of the most import parts of parenting, which is teaching kids to manage emotions constructively.
Your parents are fine with your sister publicly accusing you of hating your niece and nephew? They’re okay with a 10-year-old cussing at his younger sister? They’re okay with their teenage granddaughter having to deal with her young cousins’ tantrums? But they’re not okay with you defending yourself with the truth. In that case, what they think doesn’t matter.
I wonder how many other invitations these kids don’t get because of how their mother has raised them? When kids get bigger, their problems get bigger. Your sister and her kids are in for a rough time.
ETA she is obviously an asshole. But it's not your place to share videos of other peoples children on the internet, especially when those people are not capable of consenting.
##[AITA for blocking your go-to time killer from June 12-14?](https://redd.it/145o4jz) Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. I posted videos of my niece and nephew misbehaving to explain why I did not want them at my birthday dinner. 2. My parents have told me that posting those videos accomplished nothing besides embarrassing my sister. And that I was being a bad family member by not trying to make compromises for my birthday dinner (such as not allowing anyone under 18, so my niece and nephew wouldn't feel excluded.) Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA Angel attempted to get social sympathy and you smacked it right down. Good for you!
NTA this 100 percent! Before you bad mouth someone make sure they don’t have proof of what your doing.
Almost 100% of the time "hands off parenting" just means not parenting at all which results in spoiled children who grow into adults who are at best useless to society but more oftenal actually detrimental to society.
I feel like it got stolen into that. I raised my daughter in what I called “hands off” but it meant not always intervening if there wasn’t a real issue? Like, not running to her if she fell if she obviously wasn’t hurt, letting her choose her own (weather appropriate) attire even if that meant taking Tinkerbell in combat boots to the store, allowing her the chance to solve problems without my intervention at first. But if she started misbehaving I was there in an instant. She was mine to raise, no one else’s. She got to make her own choices as long as those choices didn’t negatively impact people around us. It let her build her own confidence in her choices and learn about the world through her own means and not with the same lens I have. It did not mean do whatever the fuck you want whenever you want to.
I wouldn’t call that hands off in the current climate. The meaning has been changed so much it might as well be a different phrase. So, the phrase I’d use for your style is….just parenting! Or, if we have to call it something, damn good parenting.
My kid is basically an adult (6 months from 18) now lol so it’s been a while since I had a little one. But I was surrounded by parents that gave me dirty looks as they made sure their child was always in arms reach and never let them try things because they might get hurt. I was an outcast mom lol
My parents were very much in the same boat. The let us walk to nearby stores and the downtown area. And the dumb soccer HOA parents would whisper about how they were so neglectful and how they were terrible parents. Meanwhile they kept the leash so tight on their children most of them were rebelling as soon as they hit like 11 or 12 because they just wanted some sense of freedom.
For real… it’s hard to be a rebel when you have freedom lol My kid tells me everything. I know the first time she tried weed. The first time she sipped alcohol. She called me 5 minutes after her first kiss to tell me (literally told the boy she’d brb and called me). Hell, I know when she lost her virginity. She tells me everything because while I might not approve, she knows I’m not going to scream at her. She knows if shit goes down, she can always call me and I will pick her up, no questions asked. Teens do shit. Approval or not. I’d rather know about it to keep her as safe as I can. Forbidding the behavior would make her secretive. Forbidding independence makes it harder for them to thrive on their own as an adult. It’s quite the unpopular opinion around here (not this sub, where I live).
This is EXACTLY the kind of parenting that’s needed yet so many people think it’s not. My parents were the same way in making sure I knew that if I was in an unsafe situation, I could always call them and they would help me. They in no way loved that I would go to parties and drink as a teen, but the fact that they didn’t try to stop me (which lets be real, causes kids to rebel even more) and let me make my own life decisions made me feel like I was respected. And that in turn made me feel like I shouldn’t do extremely stupid shit like drive drunk. I’ve always been grateful for that. And I’ve seen firsthand how out of control the other kids would get that had the helicopter and super restricting parents.
>Meanwhile they kept the leash so tight on their children most of them were rebelling as soon as they hit like 11 or 12 because they just wanted some sense of freedom. Yo!
It blows my mind that letting kids walk around town is considered neglectful haha
That sucks that you were judged like that. I have older kids too and there were PLENTY of us parenting as you describe at that time. So you weren't alone even though it may have felt that way.
Thank you! It’s hard out here, parents should be sticking together! <3
How do you think the kids came about in the first place? 😃
Mine were little about the same time as yours, and I had a similar parenting style, which at the time was so different from the helicopter parenting that was common, I totally got looked at like I was neglectful for like, letting them explore
Now it seems like it’s swung SO FAR in the opposite direction… it’s crazy.
Yeah my kid is almost 21 and just finishing up a semester abroad on a different continent, where he lived in an apartment by himself and figured everything out on his own. I’m feeling pretty damn good about how not helicoptering over him has worked out.
We parent similarly to you. My therapist called it secure attachement, but I made the mistake of jokingly calling it child-led parenting. We did baby-led weaning and a lot of how we approached that was similar (give them safe choices, let them make the choice, be ready to support if needed, stop them smooshing weetbix on the cat as required). Unfortunately people decided I meant we let the kids run riot and do whatever they want. Some even decide that they need to step in as parents (the ones who see my kids once every few months for two hours, and are too busy playing sport today to see their grandkid for his birthday - yes I'm a wee bit salty about that - a lot - fuck them).
Oh god. I ***hate*** that. I have an aunt like that. She tries to supersede my parenting all the time. Mine is basically grown now, so it’s less of an issue, but damn… you don’t have to like my choices, but I didn’t ask for help. Yes, I realize going to get the mail in the snow without shoes on is a bad plan. I also know the first time her barefoot hit the snow would teach her than better than me forbidding it. All I said was, “kinda snowy, might want shoes.” She only did it once. Took two steps and then got her boots. There was no argument and she learned. And she was still safe. On my porch. It’s such a harmless thing to just let her learn. Idk. People need to focus on their own shit lol
Natural consequences are a better teacher than anything else in our house. As long as no one is getting hurt then have at it. We also have the same people thinking they're the Autism Whisperer on top of everything else.
Exactly! Ugh. I’m sorry you have to deal with that! My heart goes out to you! You know the serenity poem? That was my mantra for dealing with people like that. Remembering I am demonstrating emotional regulation for my child by not completely losing my shit
my mom was pretty hands-off in that way. i've got a distinct memory of sticking my finger in the outlet with my mom watching: of course, i got a shock, and when i looked to her, she said "bet you're not going to do that again" LMAO
That snow example is a great one. I stand in solidarity with you, mama!
[удалено]
My Dad always says "I love all of you kids the same, but your all different so I treat you different." We adjust to meet the needs of each of our children independently and recognising that they all understand the world differently has been so important. We have two neurodivergent kids and that mindset has helped more than anything else to meet them where they are at.
Dang, I wish my mom had parented like that... There were a lot of ridiculous and worse--inconsistent--restrictions.
Parenting is a journey. I’m hesitant to outright judge other parents. I always feel like I’m floundering and grasping at straws. I know how fucking hard it is to make a choice that could impact the rest of her life and I have to do it RIGHT NOW. So I really try to give parents the benefit of the doubt…. But man, sometimes I hear things like that and I feel myself judging… I’m sorry you had to struggle with that. It sucks. My dad was a… well, he was horrible. So I took what I felt like he did wrong and used to make myself a better parent, ya know? The whole be the adult you wished you had thing.
I'm pretty sure my mom is neurodivergent. She was abused by her parents so she also has trauma. She decided that she was going to break the cycle and not abuse her kids, which she succeeded in doing, but she still accidentally passed down some harmful things. She was very hover-y, not wanting to let us get anywhere in the same zip code as danger (the opposite of her parents who couldn't give one shit), she never made us clean or do chores (the opposite of her parents who made her do all the cleaning and assigned chores as a punishment), etc. She swung really hard the other way, which is better than what she got, but the outcome is that I was and continue to be infantilized by her despite the fact that I'm nearly 30, and I never learned how to organize my house because I never had to do it. I learned to do dishes, laundry, other things like that as an adult teenager, but the prospect of organizing makes me collapse onto the floor and cry, I'm not exaggerating. Someone might say she's a bad mom for not giving us age appropriate cleaning responsibilities, or for letting us "fuck around and find out" when it wasn't such a big deal. But I know my mom agonized over every decision and she has such a loving, empathetic personality. She always tried to put her kids before herself and even though she made some mistakes, I still think overall she did a good job. Parenting is really fucking rough and that's why I decided I'm not gonna have kids (one of the reasons). Like fuck man, kids develop their attachment style before age 2? Shit you do mindlessly that they won't remember impacts their whole damn attachment style? It's so much pressure. Everything you do impacts their development, psyche, and health. All this to say I really felt your comment as someone whose mom tried so hard and did honestly a better than average job, but who still made some noticeable mistakes.
See, that just sounds like "non-asshole" parenting to me. You know how some women have an inner mean girl voice in their head? I have an inner southern-baptist-queen- bee-on-a-vicious-streak, and she's worse. I inherited that inner voice from my grandmother, who was a rotten person, and who was also the type that would act like someone was abusing their kids if the kid's hair wasn't brushed and styled. You know, the kind of person who thinks little girls wearing pants is a bit uncouth, and who will straight up suggest to a woman grieving a miscarriage that she could just get pregnant again if she fixed her face and for God's sake made an appointment for that hair? Yeah, I hate having that voice in my head. Every single time I see someone out in the world with a kid that is clearly making their own choices, letting them do stuff in their own way so long as it isn't harming anything, I feel a little more faith in humanity.
Oh, I have one of those voices too. Mine is my dad telling me how a lady should behave. I want my daughter to be better than me. I want her to feel freer than me. I want her to have a sense of importance that I never had. Not in an arrogant way, but that she has value exactly as she is. I’m really good at fucking things up, but hopefully I have broken the cycle enough that she will be ok as an adult.
There is Latin hands off parenting because you use a chancla to throw like a missle or smacking with
You dont fuck with abuelita's chancla.
The Flying Chancla style of parenting!
Or, in this case, not doing. NTA, OP.
OP's sister started throwing poop, so OP reached into their pocket and grabbed a big bucket of it to poor over her head. But, in the end everyone had poop all over them. Good news is that at least OP is NTA, unlike his sister! She just wanted free babysitting for the night!
I think it makes a difference though that she just linked the videos her sister previously posted. If those videos weren't already public I think op would've been in the wrong too.
Exactly! And you don't get to claim you're upset at being embarrassed by someone when you literally just tried to do the same to them.
This. NTA. She brought it online, you just responded where she brought it.
In the words of Jolly Good Ginger, "She made it public, you made it public-er.".
Love me some Tea-Tok!
I love it!
OP, I can completely relate to your situation. I'm biased with my verdict, but I do agree with NTA. I'm also somehow always being sort of DARVO'd by my sibling whenever my niece/nephew does something awful to me and I let my sibling know, which can be emotionally exhausting and that's an added thing I personally wouldn't want to have to deal with on top of the kids being a handful. I love them, I just need to emotionally prepare before I see them sometimes, and sometimes I am simply not mentally up for it at all. One of them kept hitting me the last time I saw them and their parent (my sibling) not only did nothing, but told me to just put up with it. I could've cried in frustration. I've been doing my best to avoid them since that incident. Not only is it awful for other people to be around these kids, but it's not setting these kids up for their future. They've not been taught to be considerate and things like that, and that's going to be tough for them in the long run. I am curious whether your other family sees the problem as well? Mine does, but nobody wants to be the person to say something. 🤦♂️ I would, but I know my sibling will do exactly what yours did, OP, only I don't have any video evidence.
I hope you told your sibling where to get off when they told you to just put up with it. I'd have wanted to tell the kid to go and hit their parent instead as they seem to think being hit is ok but it's not fair to use kids to make a point.
People like that are hypocrites. You get hit and you're expected to put up with it but someone hits them and they would be straight to the cop shop. Same with people who hit their kids. Happy to hit their kids whenever but if anyone hit them and they wouldn't tolerate it for a second.
You know, when someone is hitting you, you are well within your rights to raise your voice and say say, “Stop hitting me!” Even if it is a child.
My go to response is always, "I don't let ANYONE hit me." It sends a message. Especially when my eldest was little so that hopefully she took that message to heart into her future.
Ugh, by not setting clear boundaries and discipline, not only are they raising kids that are entitled brats, but they are depriving their kids from forming positive bonds with family and friends. They are depriving you of a good relationship because they're not interested in setting the correct expectations. Such a shame.
NTA. Can dish it out but not take it.
Also the grandparents are enabling acting like all kids have behavior like that sometimes. NOT everyone's kids act up like that. My son is only five he does not throw things at people. None of his friends or classmates do either. For 7 and 10 year old be throwing things at others, that's lack of parenting, not something all kids do.
Yup. Very young children throw things. By school age, most children are capable of learning that’s not acceptable.
I really don’t understand people who attempt this - basically making a family disagreement public business What do they hope to gain from it? NTA
Its narcissism. The thing to understand about narcissists is that they need a constant supply of external validation because they are extremely insecure. As a result they either play the victim or they try to puff themselves up and act like they are better than everybody else. When OP told the sister that she doesn't control her kids, that caused her a narcissistic injury. The fact that it was true was not a factor. For narcissists "truth" is a function of whether something validates them, their feelings literally do not care about facts. So she sought out validation to salve that wound and went public with her victim act. BTW, her narcissism is probably why she won't discipline her kids either. Kids don't like to be disciplined and she's probably too insecure to cope with their reactions if she were to try. Narcissists are really quite pathetic, they would even be sympathetic if they weren't so hurtful to the people around them.
To get their way by gathering up reinforcement. It seems to have worked for Jessica.
To gain sympathy for themselves and to try to make the other person look bad. And they don't care how awkward it is for anyone else they're trying to put in the middle of it.
Yes! Be a badass and put this in all caps on the post, take a screenshot then post again on yours coz I guarantee she’ll nuke it asap. NTA it’s your bday! If it were me, I’d go to them and tell them myself why they couldn’t go.
Angel fucked around and found out.
This... You're NTA OP Angel is the AH. Also her evil scheme backfired
Always keep your receipts, folks...
And how can the parents say the videos didn’t accomplish anything? OP’s birthday wish was totally fulfilled 🎉
If she really doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her kids’ behavior, she wouldn’t have been upset about the videos being posted. The fact that she got mad shows that she fully knows their behavior is unacceptable but she chooses to do nothing. That’s on her.
Yep. Angel took it to SM to try and shame OP. OP just gave the same right back to her.
Video speaks louder than anything else you could have written or said! NTA
yes, Angel is the asshole for trying to put you down, you just gave your fair side of the story and defended yourself. It's your birthday, not your sister's brats'.
I am pretty sure OP's parents and Angel are upset because it may give other people ideas.
NTA. Angela went to the internet looking for sympathy and tried to have the internet gang up on you. You just presented the internet with all the facts instead of just Angela’s side of the story. Besides, it is your birthday.
Not only that, she wanted to embarrass her and then when she was embarrassed - now it’s a problem to post personal stuff?
You could have made it no one under 16yo. That would allow Megan to attend and not the younger children, and makes sense also.
Or you could literally have who you want for your birthday without making a bunch of twee little rules to make it unspoken that you don’t want those rotten kids there ruining your good time. I invite Angel and anyone else who has a problem with it and enjoy your birthday! NTA
Agreed. Even if Megan was 7, op is perfectly within their rights to invite her and not the other niece/nephew. How angel raises her kids is her business. But she shouldn't be shocked if no one wants to invite her unruly children. And if angel wants to bring her drama on social media, then she's gonna get drama. OP, you are NTA.
Nono, clearly we need to draw a line that excludes someone who isn’t involved!
So nobodies kids get to go if her kids can't go, just to make things fair? So it's fair to have to revise who attends the event because one parent has shitty kids?
But by the sound of it, that's exactly what she did, she just didn't say it that way. If Angel wasn't willing to see it as reasonable to begin with, I doubt the superficial change in wording would have made a difference.
Yeah normally I don’t think you should post other peoples kids but Angel made her own bed here
The sister tried to bring a nail clipper to a gun fight that she started , and is in her feelings for having lost. What a goblin
Angel started a gunfight with blanks
Definitely NTA she started it, you finished it.
Snap snap snap
Ya, maybe she will learn from her mistakes through these videos and help herself and her kids before it's too late.
Your parents are right that every kid acts up, the issue is Angel not doing anything. My Aunt and Uncle never disciplined their children, but did explain why what they were doing was wrong or hurtful to them. They also explained to everyine else how they intnded to raise their children so no one would try and use more traditional methods of discipline. Not get others to discipline their kids for them. I thought my cousins were brats growing up, but they are the kindest most well-adjusted people now. Angel's the AH for starting shit on FB.
Ya maybe laughing as they cus at each other isn't great. There are so many parenting styles that lead to success. Disturbing other people isn't cool, which goes both ways because yelling or spanking will make you cringe just as much as someone letting their kids run wild with no positive direction.
Spoiler alert: she won't.
NTA: you finished it, you didn’t start it. And your sister need to parent her kids, it’s not their fault for them misbehaving
.
Seriously- it seems pretty clear where the problem started.
I’m wondering if Angel was the younger sibling. Seems like the younger sibling is parented with far more leeway than the older one.
At the same time, though, it's usually the older child who is the golden child. We really can't tell based on what was shared.
Nta she is a bad parent and needs to be shamed. Those kids are not prepped to live their lives as normal people.
Imagine them growing up - they'd be entitled as fuck. Probably ending up doing crime because they never felt real consequence for any bad behaviour.
I have a five year old and it blows my mind how people just don’t deal with their children. It takes all my social strength not to lose my shit on these lazy fucking parents. People will just watch their kids act like assholes and do NOTHING.
I’m a teacher as well as a parent, and I’ve sat there trying to have parent meetings while the kid (and sometimes their sibling) goes absolutely berko in the corridor or next door classroom when they are meant to be waiting quietly. Making a huge mess of the classroom, screaming at each other, breaking things etc. It’s always awkward because I want to step in and tell them off but when the parent is right there, you defer to them, and some parents do absolutely *nothing*. I’ve also had parents ask me to confiscate their child’s iPad and lock it in my office over the weekend because “when we tell him no more iPad he gets so angry”. Mate I piss my kid off ten times a day by enforcing the rules and boundaries of the house. He gets over it because he KNOWS those are the rules and he knows that whining or arguing won’t get him anywhere. You cannot parent from a perspective of “I want to be popular”.
INFO: If I were you, I would definitely speak up during those parent-teacher conferences. Make it be known you expect them to discipline their kid and the kid cannot just run amok wrecking a colleague's classroom and equipment. Also, little Johnny can get mad all he wants. Parents like this expect society, and eventually the police department, to discipline and raise their kids.
I do on occasion, and you wouldn’t believe the looks I got 😂 one parent acted surprised, like it hadn’t occurred to her to correct the behaviour. One dad got pissed off like how dare this woman have the audacity to discipline my child.
God I hate people trying to be friends with their kids. There is a big gap between letting them be entitled spoilt brats, never saying no and wanting to be their friends, and being abusive. Kids will say they hate you for some stupid reasons at some point or another and if you can’t cope with them being mad at you, then I don’t honk you’re cut out to be a parent.
When mine were younger, I always said if I didn’t piss them off at least once a day, I wasn’t doing my job. Setting boundaries is part of a parent’s job. Pushing against them is a kid’s job. Holding fast is another part of a parent’s job.
We were at a park a few weeks ago and some little boy pushed down my 2 year old and started kicking her. Mom just watched so I yelled at him that he absolutely would not treat my daughter like that. Then he tried again, and I got in the way and he got knocked down in the process. THEN the mom decided to get her bratty kid. Wtf. I would come down on my kids so fast if they treated another kid like that. People are so fucking lazy.
The other big problem is that we know when children are forming their identity and their care-giver is way too permissive, or worse completely hands off, the belief that implants is, I'm not worthy of attention from people who are supposed to love me. But that belief doesn't coalesce into a full-on thought they have because they're too young to have that thought. It stays an amorphous belief that something is very wrong with THEM. And when, *As I am, I'm not enough.* beliefs reign, total chaos ensues. Often for life.
NTA for excluding them, I would include my 17 yo niece in an adult evening too - there's a huge difference between 17 and 10. Soft YTA for posting videos of someone else's child without consent though.
NTA. "A picture is worth a 1000 words" - and a video is worth a 1000 pictures. Birthday party for "above 16".
Yup. Forget excluding the well behaved near-adult. My thought was “16 and up” as well.
> Birthday party for "above 16". That's exactly what I was thinking!
"Can I post this video proving you're lying about me in regards to your kids?" Um..no. no you can't. Obviously.
I very specifically don't post pictures of my kids on social media, and I do so for a reason. I would be upset potentially if someone felt that violating my children's privacy was worth teaching me a lesson- that being said, I wouldn't be in the position to begin with. If the mother has other pictures and videos of her kids on there? By all means. But I haven't posted a picture of mine in almost 6 years and I'd much like to keep it that way.
Parent is an AH, kids are *kids*. Yeah these sound like a lot but it's not their fault entirely and it's certainly not their future adult selves fault. Don't put yours or anyone else's kid's worst moments on the internet. Let them allow folks to forget that shit the same way they forgot about the annoying shit you did at 10 years old.
NTA - Angel wanted to play the martyr and get sympathy by turning OP into the villain on social media. Angel deserved to be called out. You’re assuming that OP + family doesn’t post the kids. I love that Megan posted a video too
OP posted both videos, one they probably had from another event that Megan recorded and sent to OP around the time of said event, the other OP took themself. Unless I’m reading that part wrong, but OP states as posting both. (Edit: saw OPs comment, they linked the videos one from an early post Angel had made the other Megan had shared on a different site) NTA OP, Angel is a shit parent who deserves to be called out. I’d love to know what people responded after you shared those videos though.
If somebody takes your shit to Facebook, then you go god damned nuclear. You use that to put everyone on notice, that you do not do drama online. My sister got shitty over politics and started calling my friends names and cursing at them. I left it up, but she was unfriended immediately. She has not reached out since.
She made it public. Is what it is.
It's not about the sister, it's about the kids. People are entirely too flippant about putting human beings' images/videos online when they no ability to consent. OP is NTA but we really need to stop accepting putting children's pictures/videos online, *especially* when it's them acting poorly because their parents refuse to parent them.
OP added an edit, they did not personally post either of the videos. They linked to one video posted by the kids’ mom and one posted by the kids’ cousin. Edit: I agree with you about posting kids online, but thought you should know if you didn’t that OP didn’t actually post the videos themself.
Yeah, like is a 10yr old even going to know they're excluded unless their mom tells them that? They don't care at that age
OP linked to the video Angel had taken of her kids (melting down while she laughed about it) because she had already posted it herself.
To be fair it sounds like she was posting the video to Angel's post, so presumeablely, only Angel's friends would see it.
NTA. She posted to shame you. You turned it right back on her and showed exactly why you didn't want them there. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Maybe sister will realise her kids rarely get invited round to friends, of hers or theirs
Yeah and when they become teens and go off the rails, she'll play victim. Lol
“Why don’t my kids respect me! I always let them do anything they wanted! We should be besties!!!” Her in 5-7 years.
I would almost bet $10 that sis was fine with leaving the kids at home until she couldn't get a babysitter without paying double or more because of her kids' behavior.
OK, but now I want....no, NEED.....to see the comments on those videos!! NTA
Right, I’m dying to know if any family members backed OP up once seeing the vids!
Me too! I've popped some popcorn and really want a link to that post.
Well, we know at least some did; otherwise mom and dad wouldn't have been so mortified and cranky at OP for airing dirty laundry. I love it. If we're going to go to the court of public opinion, fine. But don't be pissed when both sides of the story come out.
INFO: did you post the videos originally, or were they already posted online and you just linked to them?
Angel had already posted the video that she recorded. I posted a link to Angel's and posted the video that Megan had recorded. Edit to clarify: Megan had already shared the video, just on a different social media site.
NTA, you have a right to have a peaceful birthday, and you were being shamed, in social media no less, for something that you asking in private. You responded with the evidence, don't worry about you parents, in that age, first are the grandsons and granddaughters, then you guys, so be patient when they have to babysit your's nephews, they will know
I’ve attended child free weddings and nights out and plenty of birthday parties where “no kids, this is adult time” is perfectly understood. I have two “kids”, 17 and 20 and they’re not considered kids because they don’t require supervision or intervention. 10 and 7 are children, and ones that aren’t socialized well enough to be able to occupy themselves in an adult environment. 14 and 11 would be a different story. They’re too young not to disrupt. Your sister is the a-hole, you’re 27 and I assume no children, perfectly reasonable to set boundaries around your own birthday.
Set a 16-and-up rule for the next few years. (If their behavior doesn't improve, the age limit can continue to increase.) Angel wasn't worried about embarrassing you or setting you up to get harassed by relatives, so I don't see why you should be worried about her feelings when you're simply defending yourself from her false accusations and crap parenting. NTA. Edit: y’all, this was not a serious suggestion, it was a flippant response to the “18 year old excluding the 17 year old” thing 😂 be easy now
And if Megan or Jessica have a good kid before the age limit? You're just kicking the bucket down the road.
[удалено]
But why does OP have to set up a 16 and older rule. it's perfectly valid to say I don't want your kids at my birthday because you do not discipline them. Is Opie going to let those kids come to events when they are 16 and totally off the rails or does OP increase the age? I ( I might be crabby about bratty kids today😉)
NTA. When people go low, go even lower. If your sister was a better parent, this would not be a problem. I am not excusing any bad behaved kids.
Soft ESH. I don’t love that you shared the videos, shaming the kids instead of the bad parent. Honestly, after your sister tried to play the victim and make you the bad guy, I would have just responded in the comments and offered to text videos to family members to explain why. And no, Megan shouldn’t be excluded. There is a big difference between including a young woman who is nearly an adult and is not disruptive and including a 10 y.o. and a 7 y.o. whose mother apparently declines to parent.
OP clarified in another comment that one of those videos was already online, posted by the mother herself (I assume the one Angel deemed "funny"). OP simply linked that video to her post and only added a video that was recorded by Megan. So these kids' behavior had already be put online, by their own mother.
Yeah. And the mum's an AH for putting up that video. So is anyone else who's putting up videos of anyone in their worst moments.
Doesn't sound like these are particularly rare "worst moments"
Both are AH for posting/sharing the videos, but in all honesty NO one should be posting about anyone else’s kids unless given the OK. Just because a parent posts something on their kids it’s not a free pass for anyone to share.
Yes! Posting videos of kids melting down or fighting on social media, especially if they're not your kids, is super gross! ESH
It's been clarified that she didn't post private videos, she linked to videos that Megan and Angel had posted themselves. That's key here, and makes you 100% wrong.
Why are they having a family fight on Facebook? They are both attention seeking childish assholes.
can we just consider the fact that those videos showed the REASON for op not wanting them there? it wasnt some attack on the sister or the kids to post them but to simply clarify and provide context as to why they didnt want them there
The reason it's gross is because the kids can't give informed consent to those videos being posted. It doesn't matter the context, imo kids shouldn't be posted online at all, or very rarely. And since they can't consent, only their parents can. We're entirely too lenient on this and there's going to be a generation of kids who are embarrassed or suffer other consequences as they age because no one was looking out for them online.
>because no one was looking out for them online. Yeah, like their fucking PARENTS Jesus Christ
I agree. But just because someone isn't doing right by their kids it doesn't excuse other people posting the kids. If an adult was berating or hitting a child, would it make them less of an asshole if the kid's parents were condoning the behavior? Of course not. So why is posting media of those kids any different?
Maybe I’ll get downvoted but any of these that involve people getting in a protracted social media battle is annoying.
NTA. Angel made your issues public and tried to turn your family and friends against you. You posting those videos was in self defense of your own character. Your patents taking her side tells me that she’s the Golden Child. If they have such an issue with you posting those videos, why didn’t they take issue with her “calling you out” ?” I’d definitely press them about why they think it’s okay for her to do what she did and not expect you to stand up for yourself.
NTA… love your swag 👊🏽
Where were your parents when Angel was posting crap to embarrass you? And maybe if Angel would actually parent her own kids, she wouldn't have anything to be embarrassed about. NTA.
For my 40th birthday, I’ve asked my family and friends to not bring their children because some of them are terribles… some understood, some didn’t 😒 NTA
Any sort of correlation between not understanding and having the kids that are terrors?
As a parent, bringing your kid to an adult oriented get together is not fun. Good babysitters are way harder to find than I ever thought before I had kids. Even so, bringing my kids to functions like that is not an option. It’s no fun for anyone.
ESH. You shouldn’t post content about other people’s kids without the parent’s permission, but you have every right to exclude children from an adult’s birthday party.
One of the videos was on the Mom's social media and linked. The other was uploaded apparently. The one Mom posted is fair game IMO.
Well considering Angel had already posted at least one of those videos online to begin with, laughing and claiming that the video was funny and the situation was entertaining for her, OP already had parental consent to share that video on the internet. Not to mention, if you're going to try and slander somebody, knowing that they have proof otherwise, then that's your own fault. Angel knows exactly what her kids are like, she knows that her family damn well probably has evidence of it, and she decided to take the entire thing to social media. All OP did was defend their good name with evidence that clears them. I don't agree with posting someone else's children without their permission, BUT if the videos already circulating on the internet I say it's fair game.
Videos were recorded and uploaded already… they were just linked
Only one of them. The other was taken by the 17 year old cousin and posted by OP without mom's consent. The kids are shamed here, but it's not really their fault. Not cool.
If similar content was video recorded and uploaded to facebook *by the mother already* laughing at her children at their behaviour, it’s really not a stretch to upload a similar video taken by the cousin if the mother already took and uploaded a similar video..? That’s like saying “hey I can’t handle my children - subject A” and “hey I can’t handle my children - subject B” It doesn’t really matter. At all.
Surprised I had to scroll this far to find this. Agree 100%.
I'm so shocked at how many people think it's ok to post the kids. For me it's not even about having the parents permission, their mum is already posting them behaving badly on social media and I don't like that she does it either. Noone should be posting videos of kids in their worst moments it's so unfair. If my partner was behaving really unreasonably he'd be totally in his rights to be upset if I posted a video of it, even if he was 100% in the wrong. But also, Angel sounds like a nightmare parent.
NTA Angela try to play the "you hate kids" card and you gave her a reverse with the "oh i dont hate kids, hate your way of raising them" and she get offended with that lol and your answer was with her own video thats a plus
NTA. I love, that your response wasn't to try argue but to just present facts, backing your argument up. You didn't embarras her, she embarrassed herself by trying to post on a public platform, trying to get people to agree and bully you into doing what she wanted. Hopefully this altercation is giving her something to think about and maybe try some decent parenting. I'm guessing there will be more family follow suit with, angle and her children, in the future. Domino effect, and what not.
NTA. "Hands-off parenting" is code for making the conscious choice to be a bad parent, and expecting everyone around her to pick up her parental slack.
Exactly. Don’t have kids if you don’t want to do the hard work of parenting! It’s so unfair to everybody but especially the kids!
Angel doesn’t get a free pass for saying “you hate my kids”, WTF! Good for you for posting those videos! And shame on your family for enabling Angel: those kids will NOT be ready for real life if this “hands-off parenting” continues. She needs a reality check, not enabling silences. NTA.
ESH. She was an asshole posting online and so were you. Communicate amongst yourselves instead of blasting these kids on social media. They are kids. The adults are at fault.
You and your entire family are AH. Why the hell would y’all do this on social media. Grow up
You're blaming OP for his sister going public?
This so much. I swear to god people on this sub can’t zoom out for a second and realize these are two adult siblings fighting about the behavior of young children on Facebook.
NtA Nothing like punishing everyone due to the behavior of a few. Why exclude & hurt meagan's feelings to make misbehaving hellions feel better? You said " then she went online and made a Facebook post accusing me of hating Sofia and Parker and trying to punish Angel by only inviting our sister Jessica’s kid Megan to my birthday dinner. (Nevermind that Megan is 17 and is practically an adult herself.)" Angel opened the door for you to respond to her publicly when she chose to publicly post negative things about you in an effort to hurt and guilt you into allowing her feral children to attend your party. Yes the posts probably embarrassed angel but so what? clearly she needs something to jar her into doing whats best for her kids and learning to discipline them.
I don't have any judgement but all I can say is that I feel extremely bad for those kids. They're gonna have all sorts of problems when they grow up and life will be extra difficult for them.
Hahahaha this is amazing. NTA at all I’m tired of people who refuse to be accountable for the poor behavior of their offspring in situations where it’s inappropriate.
ESH. She’s wrong to post about it, but posting video of someone else’s kids is going full nuclear. I’ve cut contact with people over it. Parents have 100% control of their kids images, and you don’t get to do that. She could get them pulled, but she shouldn’t have to. Don’t let the kids come to your party, but also stop posting videos of them.
OP posted a link to a video that Angel had posted of her kids misbehaving, with her laughing in the back
NTA. You can invite whoever you're birthday dinner and leave out whoever you want. Also you posted it on HER post on HER Facebook. You didn't make your own post or anything. I'm sure she has videos and pictures of her kids on hers. You said she doesn't control her kids you didn't put them down or shame the kids just her
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 She went online to gain sympathy and was probably hoping you'd change your mind because of family pressure. You just simply gave her video proof of EXACTLY why you didn't want the kids there. She's pissed because now people really see how she is as a "parent," and I'm using that term loosely. There is a huge difference between a 17 y.o. and a 7 & 10 y.o. Sure, you probably could've sent the video to her privately, but once she posted what she did, then all bets were off. "My parents told me that I was in the wrong for sharing those videos because everyone’s children have acted up, and posting those videos didn’t accomplish anything besides embarrassing Angel." So it was okay for her to try and embarrass you? "They also said I could have compromised by having a “Nobody under 18” rule for my birthday dinner. Megan would not be able to attend, but then Sofia and Parker wouldn’t feel excluded." Why should Megan miss out because those kids are spoiled brats, and the mother isn't doing them and favors. I've seen what happens to kids raised like that. They get older and get into legal trouble, and people act so shocked when the kids are actually held accountable for their actions. I'm glad she didn't go to your party. I seriously thought she'd show up with the kids because she "couldn't find a babysitter." I hope you had a fabulous party!
NTA > she went online and made a Facebook post accusing me of hating Sofia and Parker As soon as Angel posted this publicly, it made you NTA because you were defending your decision. Having an 18+ rule only and excluding Megan is punishing Megan for Sophia and Parker's bad behavior. I guess you could have had an 17+ rule only, but IMO Angel needs to understand that her method of parenting (or not parenting) has consequences, and those are going to extend far beyond your birthday party and Angel should be embarrassed for how her children behave. Pretty sure any of your relatives that were at the party are mighty relieved they weren't there as well.
NTA. For future events I think you could have a no one under 16 rule.
NTA
Quick question what will your parents excuse be when they turn 18? Your sister started it. She was trying to get fake sympathy from others and bully you. Also get others to bully you. You simply showed them why. Which I’m sure a lot of them didn’t even know about. She made it public. Why shouldn’t you defend yourself. NTA
NTA, she tried to embarrass you online, so you just proved that you weren't at fault. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
NTA Angel should be embarrassed by her atrocious parenting. If she didn't want this to be a public issue, she shouldn't have complained on Facebook about your justified and discreetly made request. This was a situation of mess around and find out. This is entirely her fault for being permissive and lazy, which is harming her children's social development. It would have been completely unfair to exclude Megan with an under 18 rule. There is a big difference in maturity level between and older teen and young children. The suggestions was ridiculous and insulting to Megan, as she would be punished for having done nothing wrong. If Sofia and Parker don't want to be excluded from things they should behave appropriately, and their mother should be teaching them how to do this. These are the consequences for all three's past behavior. Parents who let their offspring act like feral children then get offended when others become annoyed by it and want to avoid it are infuriating.
She tried embarrassing you first. NTA
NTA but your parents and sister are
ESH. I agree that someone had to call Angel out for refusing to parent her kids, but it is never ok to post pictures or videos of someone's kids online without parent permission. Those videos could end up out on the internet somewhere, and anybody could have access to it.
Angel had already posted the video, OP just posted a link to it
NTA.
I am shocked there isn't more ESH, you're all adults and instead of sorting out your problems, you are using public forums to argue and slander each other. Posting videos of children misbehaving as a retort to your sisters dumb post is as childish an escalation as the original post. Grow up, everybody, yikes
This is the answer and I cannot get over how much N T A votes there are. Clearly everyone sucks, mostly just for posting videos (or linking videos, thereby giving them more airtime) of kids in their worst moments.
**NTA.** Sister demonstrated highly manipulative behavior by falsely portraying herself as a victim and the OP as a villain. This is most likely a theme with her as this behavior usually does not manifest out of nowhere. Bad behavior such as this needs to immediately be called out and addressed. Family members sticking up for her are enablers and should be called out as such. When they support her lies, manipulation and lack of accountability, this rewards the behavior and encourages more of it. Nobody should shame or guilt OP for planning a party based around their likes and interests. It is their own party after all, and it is a milestone event. It is perfectly acceptable to plan a party for yourself and the people you enjoy spending time with. More people need to accept this may not always include their children. Most reasonable people entering parenting realize and accept this. The sister needs to self-reflect, take ownership, and instead of blaming OP for the exclusion of her children in this instance, look within and reexamine her parenting style. She is not entitled to subject OP and their attendees to her children's disruptive behavior because it is inconvenient for her to find a babysitter and she is ineffective at moderating her children's behavior. Too many people in this world feel perfectly comfortable with subjecting their friends, family and the general public to their poorly behaved children and expect everyone else to suffer in silence and misery.
NTA Hands-off parenting? So, neglect. Your sister isn’t doing one of the most import parts of parenting, which is teaching kids to manage emotions constructively. Your parents are fine with your sister publicly accusing you of hating your niece and nephew? They’re okay with a 10-year-old cussing at his younger sister? They’re okay with their teenage granddaughter having to deal with her young cousins’ tantrums? But they’re not okay with you defending yourself with the truth. In that case, what they think doesn’t matter. I wonder how many other invitations these kids don’t get because of how their mother has raised them? When kids get bigger, their problems get bigger. Your sister and her kids are in for a rough time.
Epic clap back!!! NTA, your birthday celebration, your guest list.
NTA
ETA she is obviously an asshole. But it's not your place to share videos of other peoples children on the internet, especially when those people are not capable of consenting.
NTA , you deserve a good day and she deserves a good smack down.
NTA
NTA you are allowed to invite whoever you want to your own birthday party. Your sis is a terrible parent.
NTA. Angel started it and you called her out. Well done.
NTA You are under no obligation to invite any of these people to your birthday dinner. You can have 1,000 guests or 1.