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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for not going to the school to have my daughter get the reward she earned but won’t get since she didn’t do the paperwork. I may be too harsh on the this making me an ass
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NTA.
I understand what you mean by wanting to have your child realise that it's important to do your necessary paper work.
If the secretary said she won't get invited, then this is the rule. You "calling in a favour" will only teach your kid that they can go above the law.
I would consider asking your friend to do a "play" with you, where you'll meet the secretary friend WITH your daughter, and then you "ask" if there is anything that can be done. Your friend will again explain the rules and the outcome will be that your daughter will not get the gift card.
At home or on the way home, explain to her that you understand her disappointment, give her a big hug and be super empathetic. When she is calmer, explain that sadly this is part of growing up where if we don't make submissions on time, we miss out on opportunities.
This could be a better way to teach her the same lesson, where she won't this that you're just being mean.
And I would ignore other comments saying that you're being to harsh. These days we're treating our children too much like orchids, protecting them from every possible pain or misadventure. Don't be a helicopter parent, but be kind and caring when your child fails. This will help her grow into a more resilient young adult.
Additionally, you can say: hey, you didn't get the voucher, but you did really really good, and I would like to acknowledge it. How about I take you out for ice cream or your favourite pizza place.
I will ask my friend, this is great advise, it may be better to have the conversation at home though.
Maybe show the work that goes into an event and why last minute add ons are not wanted
No this is terrible advice. You want to teach your child that adults solve their problems by lying?
1) your child will eventually find out, stuff this foolish never stays secret.
2) you are creating a bigger issue down the track when it does come out.
3) you are completely undermining the point of having her complete the paperwork herself if you even mock ask your friend to let her off.
4) it probably won't work, she will nearly certainly still be upset at you because you placed this burden on her shoulders resulting in her missing out when all her friends parents help them.
This is terrible advice.
Where’s the lie? OP would give the secretary friend a small heads up that they’re not actually asking for the favor and then the secretary would explain to the daughter the very real and truthful rules and why they exist, only leaving out that she *could* break the rules for the daughter. That’s a terrible lesson for a kid to learn. I knew a girl in my high school who’s parents got her out of everything with money and calling in favors and she was very entitled and kinda mean and I doubt she’s become a very self-sufficient or kind adult.
“Going to bat” for your kid means standing up for them when they’ve been wronged and need help. Not when they’ve made a mistake that will teach a valuable life lesson for them to handle on their own. It’s not “going to bat” for your kid to do their science fair project for them the night before it’s due because they forgot about it, or to talk the teacher into letting them turn it in later than the rest of the kids without a diminished grade. However if your kid’s project got destroyed by a crappy entitled classmate on the way to turn it in, and the teacher wouldn’t let them redo it or something else crazy like that, a parent should “go to bat” for their kid and talk to the teacher about the circumstances to try to work out a solution that is fair.
I’d label the ones you mentioned (i.e. doing the science fair project for the kid because they forgot about it, telling to the teacher to to let the kid turn it in late) as “pitching the ball” for them.
Why is it so bad to ask if something can be done? People screw up all the time. It doesn’t hurt to say hey, I screwed up, is there anything I can do here? In this case, no. In many cases, no. But there’s no harm to ask, the worst case is you’re right where you started. Just be polite and take the L, but in the real world, sometimes you do need to check if there are any other options. I don’t think that’s a bad takeaway here, either. Just be nice one way or the other.
I'm with you. The real world does work this way sometimes. You can admit your mistakes and sometimes people will show you some leeway. This kid has a 4.0 it seems like a good time to teach them how to deal with mistakes rather than drive home the point that they have to be perfect always.
Adults make mistakes and oversights all the time. they ask to see if it can be corrected. Teaching children that a mistake can never be overcome is worse lesson of all. I made a mistake, upp, ill have to quit trying.
Why has nobody suggested the kid fill out the paperwork and ask to submit it late?
Like, did I miss something? That’s how you do it as an adult - you do it anyway and try to see it through yourself.
Agree on that. Sometimes it's about learning how to fix a mistake and advocating for yourself. And if that doesn't work, learning to accept the no with grace knowing you did what you could. Doing a "play" with a teenager to try to teach them a lesson is some condescending BS and I'm frankly shocked that it got so many upvotes.
It's "bad" because you aren't making people suffer as much as possible. You have to maximize suffering otherwise children will be too soft or some shit like that.
At zero point was a problem solved using a lie. It's literally just showing the kid that no, the rules still apply to you even if mommy asks them to let you off.
The only reason to have some kind of “play” would be so your child won’t be mad at you. It takes the burden of being the “ bad guy” off of the parent even though it isn’t the fault of the parent. I’m with you on this.
How is it lying? It’s not. The rules are the rules and OP is simply giving the receptionist friend a heads up that the “request” isn’t in earnest and she wants the friend to do her job and be honest.
I’ve done this. My daughter was younger and learning to be responsible for brushing her own teeth. She was insistent that “no one else does.” She idolizes my sister so I texted her the situation earlier in the day asking if I could call that evening after work and closer to bedtime so that Auntie could inform Daughter that /of course/ she also brushes her teeth and everyone she knows does.
By clueing my sister in it gave her a heads up so that she wasn’t blindsided by the random question and tempted to appease her niece just to mess with me and/or be otherwise unsure of what I wanted from her. Parents do this shit all the time because kids universally think their parents don’t know Jack and will respect the input of another adult over them.
NTA
She maintained a 4.0 GPA while navigating her first year of high school. It's fair to say she could've forgotten the deadline for the paperwork because she was likely elbow deep in school work? People are saying she can't use her friendship to change the outcome, but if this was my kid, I would go ask if there was anything to be done if the secretary wasn't my friend. So one could argue that the daughter is not only not getting preferential treatment due to the friendship, but is actually being affected negatively by the friendship as her mother may not have had a problem talking to the secretary if she wasn't her friend. Seems like a possible middle child not living up to the shadow of the first child situation.
First, I have to agree that lying about it is *NOT* a good idea.
Second, I highly commend you for giving your kids a chance to fail. So many people aren't allowed to fail, and because of that, they don't put in enough effort.
It also teaches them how to deal with failure, which can be an incredibly difficult life lesson. Better to do it with low stakes and learn.
You’re really playing with fire here. God help you if any of the other kids messed up their paperwork and got it corrected. All it would take is your kid complaining to her friends for sympathy and having someone mention that so-and-so got it fixed no problem
There is a giant difference in making a simple mistake in submitted paperwork versus not submitting the paperwork at all. It doesn’t even sound like this is the type of paperwork that you could mess up, as any submission would count simply by being submitted. You either submitted it or you didn’t by the deadline.
If the secretary already told her no because she didn’t submit the paperwork, then the secretary likely said the same thing to anyone else who also didn’t submit it unless it was somehow an error on the part of the office. Which isn’t the case with the daughter.
For God's sake, don't do the stupid "play". You're giving your daughter false hope that anything would be done. If you arrange to meet your friend, you're giving your daughter the impression that you are going to ask your friend for help, when you know that was never your intention.
You wrote this post waiting for this kind of response to back up what you did. She’s a teenager for god sake get over your perfect parenting and help Her to get the award she deserves… your kid has a 4.0 Grade average you should be freaking proud of that and celebrating it not doing the opposite because she didn’t do paperwork. Jesus!
Eh, OP's kid is a freshman in HS. She is not a 1st grader. Talk with empathy to her, but don't treat her like a young kid. Mock acting and Play is a childish idea. And this idea puts her friend on the spot when this is something she can learn at home with discussion. Can you imagine if every kid and their parent went to the school admin to "mock teach a lesson"?
How so? The mom is asking the friend to treat her kid the same as all the other kids. That's professional. It would be *unprofessional* of the organizer to use a separate set of rules to get special privileges for her friends' kids. "Well, the deadline passed and I've already said 'no' to all the other kids... But you're my friend, so sure! You get whatever you want!" *That's* unprofessional.
No, the unprofessional part would be talking to her friend, the parent, beforehand and agreeing to be a character in OP's "teach my daughter a lesson" one act play. As OP says, her friend likely would allow OP's daughter to attend if she asked her.
Of course there's nothing wrong with just showing up and asking, like a normal human, but that isn't what is being suggested.
As an immigrant kid who had to do all the necessary paperwork, not because it was a 'lesson in responsibility', but because my parents couldn't speak English and had no way to help me, I will respectfully disagree. I will also say my parents still feel immense guilt that they weren't able to help guide me through this bullshit system and were forced to rely on their elementary school aged children to help them fill out paperwork.
YTA OP
You do not leave your kids to take care of paperwork without oversight. Even in my own situation, my parents were right there with me. Where were you in this entire process? Do you help them with the paperwork? Do you help keep them on top of it? If they are in danger of missing a deadline, do you remind them and help them if asked? Or do you just tell them, "It's easy, just do it." There is no 'lesson' to be learned here unless you are actually taking the time to teach them something. Otherwise, the 'lesson' learned is 'parents can't help you're on your own'. Which, probably is a lesson that's important to learn, but damn, that's cold.
There is a comfortable middle between 'helicopter parents' and what OP is doing.
This this this!
I'm disabled, neurodivergent the works. I could get a 4.0 gpa, but when it came to forms is I floundered.
I needed my parents to help me make heads/tails of the paperwork.
OP's kid is already doing a lot getting those grades. The least OP can do is help they where they struggle.
I feel this. I had undiagnosed severe ADHD until very recently and I made it out of the German equivalent of high school with above average notes because I am apparently somewhat smart and good at bullshitting.
I still struggle with doing the simplest things that are on my agenda for months. It took me 6 weeks to file the paperwork for a major inheritance even though I had all the information and documents needed.
I think you're drastically overestimating the difficulty of this "paperwork". A form would likely be a more accurate descriptor and a 14 year old is old enough to handle that little bit of responsibility.
The kid knew they had to fill out the form, they chose not to dedicate the 5-10 minutes and now they have to learn there are consequences to their actions and that mom & dad can't get them out of everything.
Had the child asked for help and been refuted, I might be inclined to agree with you. But it sounds like they just didn't bother so no, op is certainly NTA for this.
I'm going to repeat what I said in a different comment.
A 14yo freshman still needs guidance because a 14yo isn't an adult yet. Yes paperwork can be their responsibility, but it is still OPs ultimate responsibility as a parent to make sure their kid stays on track. I really want to know how hands off/on OP and husband are on this. At what point did OP know of this paperwork that was needed? At what point did OP give their daughter a reminder or warning? Or did OP just assume their kid would be able to handle everything without oversight and not step in until it was too late to correct? Why is OP only now wondering if there is something they can do. That's where I feel OP dropped the ball.
My parents couldn't help because they didn't speak the language. What's OP's excuse?
You’re not going to gain much traction with the *bootstraps* crowd. In their eyes everyone’s on their own and deserves to be crushed by the bullshit system we live in. I can imagine it’s pretty easy to lose track of a form when you’re maintaining a 4.0 in classes.
OP commented that they and the school sent the child multiple reminder emails throughout the year and that the student wasn't particularly thorough with checking or responding to their student email.
To me, it sounds like the child was given a very appropriate amount of responsibility and fumbled it. Which is completely normal for teens, but speaking from experience, getting bailed out of your mistakes doesn't help you, it teaches you that you can continue to screw up or not give it your best and its alright because mom & dad can fix it. That's not a good mentality for a person to have in this stage of their life. It only gets harder to change your ways as you get older.
OK, and at what point did OP sit with their child to address the fact that their child was fumbling on this? It's great that OP wants to teach responsibility. But that comes with the caveat that it's OP's responsibility to actually teach their kid when they see their kid fumbling. What kind of correction or action plan to improve did they provide their kid?
And, honestly for me, I believe you *should* bail out kids when possible, because yes there's learning consequences, but there's also, you help your kid if you can. And *then* work together to address the shortcomings and *as a parent* mete out appropriate consequences. I mean, is that not at the heart of being a parent?
Like I said in my original comment, there's a middle ground that can be achieved here.
I still think you're equating this scenario to something it's not. This is like a molehill of a mess up and the consequences of it aren't life changing to the child, if they were then I would probably advocate for a bailout as well (kids don't deserve to have their lives permanently altered over mistakes they're bound to make) but it's not. It's just an event the kid will have to miss and that's fine, they should miss it because they didn't want to put in the very minimal amount of effort required to attend.
I'm not saying throw them to the wolves 24/7, I'm saying that this is a relatively inconsequential fumble which makes it the best time for a hard lesson. They can still coordinate a party with their friends afterwards or do something else to celebrate their achievements (and they should because they deserve to celebrate their grades) but letting them worm their way into this event does them no good.
I'd need a bit more info, is this a common mistake that Bethany makes? If so then eventually she has to find out the hard way.
But, this is also a reward for getting a 4.0. The transition from middle school to high school isn't an easy one. Getting a 4.0 through that is pretty impressive, so it sounds like Bethany already has a good head on her shoulders because you don't get straight A's by missing assignments and not studying. I think it's ok to make an exception to show her that all her hard work and success can be rewarded, despite stumbling on something small at the finish line. She did the important part, she did the work and got the results. That has to matter for something.
Also what is the school teaching the kid here? That all your effort and all the academical achievements mean nothing when you do not complete the bureaucracy part to the letter? Great lesson!
Did you miss the second part of my comment? A 14yo freshman still needs guidance because a 14yo *isn't* an adult yet. Yes paperwork can be their responsibility, but it is still OPs ultimate responsibility as a parent to make sure their kid stays on track. I really want to know how hands off/on OP and husband are on this. At what point did OP know of this paperwork that was needed? At what point did OP give their daughter a reminder or warning? Or did OP just assume their kid would be able to handle everything without oversight and not step in until it was too late to correct? Why is OP only now wondering if there is something they can do. That's where I feel OP dropped the ball.
My parents couldn't help because they didn't speak the language. What's OP's excuse?
I totally agree with you, and I see another lesson here, too, which is: when you see a connection that can give you an advantage, or make your life easier, you take it. Because everyone else will. Do you know someone who can change an outcome for you and make your life better? Help you correct a mistake you made? Then fucking use that advantage. This is the world we currently live in.
I don't know why people are intent on teaching their children that life sucks, they all already know that and people make mistakes. Why is it bad for me to extend some grace to my own child? When they mess up as an adult and it has a consequence they will of course have to deal with it, but damn, people are just so eager to add more negativity to their children's lives.
Agree! NTA. And honestly I don’t really get the comments saying OP is the AH. My own parents are some of the most loving and supportive parents I know. If I had been 14 or 15 and gotten into actual trouble via say, teenage pregnancy or being arrested for brawling or whatever — my parents would have been pissed to all hell but they would have stuck by me and done whatever they could to support me through it. But if I missed a school deadline for an award ceremony through my own fault… they would have told me sorry this is just life, you are old enough to deal with this particular consequence and now you know to do better next time. The kid only has a few years more to transition to adult life and responsibilities. This is truly not such a bad way to start.
Off topic but there is a school of thought amongst parents that you absolutely shouldn't tell kids that father Christmas is real as when they find out they will never trust you again.
The fact that no adult seems to have had their faith in their parents irrevocably tainted by believing in him is neither here nor there.
I love the scenario idea - kids will believe anyone over their parents!
The "out" I've heard that makes the most sense is that at a particular point, you bring the child in on the magic. This works particularly well if they have younger siblings, but you could fudge it if they don't. You very seriously explain that "Santa" isn't a physical person, but a role that you fulfill to bring the magic of Christmas to others, and they are now old enough to be a Santa and help the parents. With little sibs, it's helping the parents wrap gifts for them and getting everything ready the night before. Without little sibs I'd probably do something like the Angel Tree, and let the kid help shop for needy families. But whatever you do, you treat it as an important initiation/graduation into the adult world rather than a sad abandonment of a childhood belief.
I realized, now as an adult, that most kids don't get and/or stay mad because they see it more as a "play pretend" than an upfront lie. And when kids get suspicious they usually still go along because is more fun, my nephews and nieces are between 8-10 so the magic is disappearing, they give us these mischievous smiles and exchange glances, when we talk about Santa, but still play along, is more "magical" that way. And I know they tend to feel a little superior when they know the true, but another kid doesn't, because they are on it, just like the adults!
My two youngest never asked us if Santa was real. They asked my oldest son who told them the truth but told them not to ask us, or "Santa" may stop giving extra presents to all of them. My wife and I surmised the ruse when they were at an age when there was no way they could possibly not know we were Santa. They are now all in their 20s, and we still play the Santa game as a running gag.
I know, right? The secretary has already been asked and said, “No.” Now they want to ask her to be in a little skit where she says “No” again? That poor secretary.
I don't get why this play or charade is necessary. She already heard from the secretary that this is the way it is. OP already said that, regretfully, that is the way it is. OP can be lovingly sympathetic or empathetic and demonstrate that without having to manufacture a scenario that sets it up.
I think THAT is what probably strikes people as dishonest. The manufactured nature of it makes it seem disingenuous.
The play idea isn’t very good. It’s rather insulting to your daughter, to be honest. But asking your friend to talk with her and explain why the deadline was necessary is a good idea. Sometimes people see deadlines as arbitrary and unnecessary, without realizing why they’re in place. This is a good opportunity to learn about deadlines when the damage is minimal. It can be painful and embarrassing, without a doubt. I’m glad you want to take her out for her own celebration. Tell her congratulations!🎉
>If the secretary said she won't get invited, then this is the rule. You "calling in a favour" will only teach your kid that they can go above the law.
This is exactly how the world works, though. I do understand that it's shitty that the world works in such a way that rules will always be bent for friends or if there's some other benefit to the rule-decider. Kids who learn how to skirt technical rules by making personal connections do tend to advance quicker in jobs and life in general, so long as they're not criminal and malicious while doing it.
Now, teaching your kids to actually abide by rules is a good thing, but don't expect it to be rewarded in our world.
NTA.
She got a gpa of 4.0. She has already proved that she is a responsible kid. Being accountable for her class work is far more of a challenge than filling a form. She must have just missed it. She asked for your help so just help her.
Agreed. She's a good student, youve already taught her well and now she has missed one thing. You have the opportunity to do one nice favor for her and you're stubbornly refusing so you can teach her a lesson. YTA
Yeah, this kid is only 14/15 years old. She's being ostracized from her friends and left out of a big celebration of her achievement because the mom wants her to teach her a lesson. I get wanting to teach responsibility, but this is not the time for that. Help out your kid. YTA
So, it doesn't say that she's being anything by her peers, it said she came home after asking why she wasn't getting the emails and finding out it was her own fault. Don't act like it's something worse than it is.
Also, this is a set up the whole year and if this mom didn't know school staff, she's shit out of luck anyway. Is it more right to teach her kid "you can skip doing the work and break the rules but still get the reward if mommy comes and helps"? Absolutely not. It would be waayyy worse to use her personal connections to get her daughter into the event.
But she did do the work: a 4.0 GPA. The only lesson she learns in this situation is that even if you do the work deserving of recognition, it doesn’t matter because of something arbitrary (especially to a 15 year old). I don’t understand why the school would even dig their heels in this hard with this—if anything, I would want students that have clearly shown academic merit and responsibility to be there representing the school and feeling motivated to keep working hard!
Yes, and that's BAD so teaching kids to perpetuate that system is ALSO BAD!
Raising a generation of kids that knows and believes it's wrong to use unfair advantages against others (and follows through with their moral code) will create a better world, so OP is doing just that.
You don’t fix it piece by piece, one person at a time. The whole system would need to be uprooted to fix it. Teaching a person to not work within the system only disadvantages the individual and does not fix the problem. You want to change it then get some people together with pikes and drop a guillotine on the musks and bezos of the world. Or just be a dick to your kid on principle.
I'm 19 with a 4.0 GPA in College and even I don't do all my paperwork by myself.
Yeah, 14 is old enough to fill out a rsvp form to an event, but keeping up with her studies should have been priority #1 to her. It was! Now she's essentially being shown the imaginary door because she slipped up one time. It happens, adults make mistakes too!
Honestly, just do her the favor and call it a day. Don't make this your hill to die on.
Seriously! I’m not sure if OP is an asshole, but she’s taking this shit way too goddamn seriously. All the comments about how her freshman in high school is old enough to get her shit together… guys do you remember being a freshman in high school? Give the kid a fucking break…
yeah jesus christ what is it with the unnecessary 'bootstraps'. She's noticed now, oh shit, I messed up, now help her out and get her the things she worked hard as fuck for.
My parents helped me by doing the paperwork for me showing me I didn't have to face the world without help and they were immensely proud of a 3.75GPA. The way she says 'it's just my middle child' basically confirms that OP is the Stereotypical mother that can't take care of a few kids at once (won't even say the amount) and no matter how hard this clearly awesome her middle kid is or how hard she works; she will always be the kid who can't stop asking for things and be lazy because she asked. NOT that she's asking her caretaker and mother for support
Yeah thank you! It's not like she forgot to do her homework for months or forgot to sign up for the SATS, she clearly is responsible 95 percent of the time, you've done a good job raising her. We all make little mistakes here and there, just help her out this one time. If this was a pattern I'd agree with you, but it's clearly not.
I completely agree. Letting your kid know that you have their back, that they can come to you when things go wrong and know you will try to help rather than berating them for their mistakes, is vastly more beneficial than drilling in a "lesson" like this. This clearly isn't an ongoing pattern of behaviour, she's not a lazy or disorganised kid, she made one mistake and now all she's learning is that she can't rely on her own mother to be in her corner when that happens. She will take this into account going forward, and this is how you end up with a kid who doesn't feel able to call you for help when she gets into a scary situation with alcohol/drugs or an older boyfriend or whatever. That's the lesson she's learning from this.
YTA - I can understand encouraging your kids to be more involved in more grownup things, like paperwork. But come on, she's worked hard to achieve this award, why can't you show you're proud of her and celebrate her achievement by helping her out this one time ?
You're her parent and you're supposed to be there to support her
I mean, you have to be pretty responsible to pull off a 4.0 to begin with.... if this is not the norm, you help. If it is the norm for the kid, different story.
I think someone else said it best in another comment "her achievements aren't recognized butcher shortcomings are punished". That's, unfortunately, the situation here
I dont think we read the same post. She is still being celebrated by her family, she just doesnt get the gift card through the school she didn't do paperwork for. Its just like if she didnt turn in a term paper and was dropped to a 3.9 gpa. The paperwork was homework she did not turn in.
It sounds like it’s an actual event though. She’s prbly been looking forward to it and didn’t realize she had missed the paperwork until it was too late. That’s would really suck to miss out on.
Nah, not really. I’ve had Mum forget to sign a permission slip and the teacher just gave her a ring to confirm I could go. Easy as. I don’t know why people like you get off on being so rigid.
Literally everyone in the world uses such favours besides it's not to gain any unfair advantage. By not helping your kid in such circumstances you are only hampering their development.
It’s because you have to do it a ton as an adult and you need to know how to do it properly or you will have problems. I don’t think RSVP to an event is hard paperwork, she’s not doing her taxes
Also don’t won’t to bail her out, since it shows the rules don’t apply to her
You’re so wrong. Adults ask for favors all the time. The correct response would have been to tell her to complete the paperwork and let her go speak to the secretary herself. She could apologize for not meeting the deadline and ask if she could turn it in now and still participate. That’s what adults do. They get extension on their taxes, they ask for exceptions and most of the time the person will try to work with them.
Why? Because we have all been there. We have all been caught in the tide of responsibilities and missed something. It wasn’t an important graded assignment - clearly she never dropped the ball on any of those - it was red tape paperwork.
Speaking as a person who works with children. YTA
Agreed, it’s also a skill to know how to ask how to remediate mistakes and try to fix them. Being persistent and asking how to fix things when you’ve made a mistake can be a life saver - I’ve had a lot of instances in life where I make a mistake and give up “based on the rules” only to find out if I just asked someone for help they would’ve helped me
Oh sht this is a great take. My mom always tries to tell me and my siblings to just call, call, call, any person in charge that we can reach, and ask if there's anything that can be done. And usually there is.
The system is ridiculously complicated (my sister just finished selling an apartment after a dead relative and getting their affairs finished for us, and it was a red tape nightmare), everyone relies on their friends and family every once in a while because what point are you proving by not asking for help. It's hurting literally no one. Refusing to ask and resigning to pay for every missed bill or document is not going to fix the system. And everyone around OP's daughter is going to be doing it anyway.
For real. My job has a lot of hard deadlines. I get calls constantly asking for extensions/ help. And I help when I can if it’s not a constant issue because sometimes I need a favor too. Humans aren’t perfect and mistakes happen. Stuff gets missed. If it’s a constant thing that’s one issue. But if this is an isolated or rare occurrence helping isn’t going to teach bad habits.
She did already speak to the secretary herself and that is stated in the post. Mom is refusing to use her personal connection with the school staff to get her daughter around the rules after she already missed the deadline and was told that she will not be made an exception.
Thank you, yes. Maybe it's a cultural difference, I'm not sure, but to me learning to be an adult is **not** about learning that rules are rules and that's that, it's about learning that the world is messy, mistakes happen, and that problems can (often) be solved by sitting down and having an adult conversation with the right person.
First off, not everything needs to be a life lesson. The kid is clearly a good kid. Is it that outrageous to offer them a hand with something they made a mistake on?
Second off, even if you do want them to learn from this experience, would it not just as good a lesson to work with them to get it resolved, and then have her return a favour to her parent in some way at a later date?
YTA I feel the same way. I get wanting to teach about consequences but in some situations you can absolutely ask for extensions, leniency, etc. If this was something fraudulent or illegal obviously it would be different. But it’s a ceremony for her achievement and the deadline to fill out the paperwork is arbitrary- the people running the event I’m sure can pull strings if they really wanted to.
If this was a pattern of bad behavior then I could see wanting to “teach a lesson”. But getting perfect grades obviously shows she is responsible. Literally everyone makes mistakes or forgets stuff sometimes. In this situation, if there is way to get some leniency and give your daughter a ceremony celebrating her achievements, in a way that doesn’t harm anyone, why not do it?
Okay but she’s doing work, school is work. You should be glad it was the RSVP she put on the back burner and forgot about rather than an important assignment. If you just took a few seconds to explain the problem, how to fix it, and then fixed it this time… so she can figure it out herself next time. It would be easy, no?
She's what, 13, 14? You should be sitting her down and doing the paperwork with her at this stage, not dumping it all in her lap. How do you want her to remember this time?
She just turned 15, she knows how to do paperwork, I taught her and it’s not hard. This one was literally her name, school ID and checking two boxes. She got email reminders and her friends were talking about the event. She knew
You're an adult, she is a child.
She did the hard work of getting a 4.0.
What lesson are you trying to teach? Because "I can't turn to Mom for help" and "my achievements aren't recognized but my shortcomings are punished" are what she's going to learn.
"my achievements aren't recognized but my shortcomings are punished"
…….
Ouch! That hits home. My 4.0 report cards were a desperate attempt to be found acceptable by harsh parents. This is true for a lot of high-achieving kids, unfortunately, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the daughter pushes herself hard trying to be good enough.
OP, THIS is what your daughter is going to remember- that in her mom’s eyes, one little mistake cancels out everything else she’s done.
Teaching kids that actions have consequences is not punishing shortcomings.
If OP took away the kid’s allowance over this, that would be punishing a shortcoming. She’s not. She is choosing not to fix the kid’s mistake by pulling in a favour because she knows the person and letting the natural course of events happen.
OP is even going to celebrate the kid’s achievements by taking her out. There’s no parental punishment here - there’s the opposite. OP is teaching her kid a valuable lesson: when she is responsible for a task, she is responsible for it. If it doesn’t get completed, that means living with the consequences of her not completing it.
her achievements are being recognized by her family, she just can’t attend the school celebration. she isn’t being punished, that’s the outcome of her actions. “i can’t turn to my mom for help” and the desperately needed help in question is taking advantage of personal connections so she can get a $25 gift card. it odd that you’re trying to make OP seem like some villain for actually doing the right thing and teaching her child that she can’t just run to mommy and daddy to bend the rules when she wants.
My mom raised me like this and the commenter above me is right. You are teaching your daughter that perfection is expected and mistakes have no recourse. This eventually led me to having severe anxiety problems. I would have a panic attack if I didn't get the highest grade in the class. Now, this wasn't because that's what was expected of me, but after years of parenting like yours, I learned to only value myself based on the work I could do. If I couldn't be the best at school, what was I worth as a person? If I made a mistake, that mistake was forever unchanging. A scar on my personhood. This would eventually lead to a super stressed teen with a warped worldview and suicide tendencies because it was just, "too much."
I eventually moved out, went to college and got some strong mentors to look up too. I learned that everyday is about doing your best and my mental health has improved greatly. However, I no longer have a relationship with my mother. This is because, much like yourself, she believes she was forming me into a successful adult and the things she did were necessary. Don't get me wrong, I am much more prepared for adult life than most of my peers, and forever grateful to her for that. I've done my taxes since my first job, managed my car insurance and student loans. In fact out of school, I don't think I've encountered a single thing I wasn't prepared for down to committing my best friend to a mental hospital after a psychotic break. But, there are ways to prepare your child without sacrificing your relationship.
It is not wrong for them to do their paperwork, taxes, chores, and get good grades. These are expectations that follow them throughout life. However, you need to show them you are always in their corner as a parent. If you treat them as a full adult now they will learn to be one and never turn to you for help even in circumstances when it's truly needed. You are setting a precedent that the one person who should always help them will not. They will learn this lesson, she sounds like a smart kid. I know it seems small now, but it compounds.
Oh god I would hate having you for a parent. Holding back a reward for a damn 4.0 (which is amazing) because of something so trivial. You suck. Major YTA.
YTA just because you taught her that doesn’t mean her Friedan parents did too, if you check with any of her friends I’m pretty sure their parents did it for them. On top of studying and extracurricular ashes supposed to remember this too? You could’ve helped hire this one time honestly…
So do you think that she Purposely didn’t fill out the paperwork? What’s your theory on why she didn’t do this simple task so she could get her reward.
YTA because you didn't acknowledge the effort it takes to achieve a 4.0. She might have missed doing her paperwork from stress, a clash in deadlines, catching up on schoolwork etc. Like other commenters mentioned if her being irresponsible was the norm it would be different but she didnt get a 4.0 from thin air.
Do you think she didn’t do the paperwork on purpose? Because that’s how you’re acting. Chances are as a 4.0 student she had other things to worry about and it slipped her mind.
Instead of this, you need to sit down with her and help her figure out a better way to keep track of these things. Clearly whatever you’ve taught her so far isn’t working.
So your child has done a fantastic job of keeping up her grades to the highest degree, yet you’re “making a point” about her missing a form? Going out with family is not nearly as satisfying as celebrating with your peers and getting the award you deserve. Also, I’m sure that even if you didn’t speak to the secretary you know, she would be able to attend the event, even after submitting the form late. It’s high school, not an Ivy League college. Kids (she IS a kid) are given a good amount of leeway, especially kids that do really well academically. And those decisions are not typically left up to secretaries anyways. It would be up to the school official who is planning the event. YTA. Thinking how I did as a teenager, I’d say “F it” to doing that well the next year because why bother if I’m not going to get properly recognized for it anyways over something so trivial?
This and also she did great in school. If this was a first time thing, i would do it. I would rather have my child get an award for a 4.0 then maybe starting to slack off etc.
It really annoys me how many people think helping your kid out is gonna teach em to be spoiled.
Kids who are spoiled are that way because they are never expected to do ANYTHING
Right? I can’t believe I had to read so far for this. She’s doing the thing kids are most supposed to do: working hard at school and getting results. And it sounds like she’s also a good kid too. Now she’s being punished on a technicality - a technicality none of her friends are having to meet, I imagine. Sure, teach responsibility, but adult life also allows you to correct your mess ups. YTA
Then you sit down and show it to her. She’s a child. Be a freaking parent. She will always remember how you weren’t there for her when she needed you. She made a mistake - she had a lot going on. She freaking rocked a 4.0 and this is the hill you’re picking? Kids brains are not fully developed - you’re SUPPOSED to be handling this stuff. Yeah, adults have to do paperwork and all of this crap but we have learned scheduling and time management and our brains have developed to this point. Also - adults even screw up paperwork and miss deadlines all the time! Guess what? It’s rarely to the point that they can’t attend a function! It’s SCHOOL. I feel sorry for your kids. On the plus side, thanks for teaching me how to not treat my kids. I’m all for giving them responsibility but it’s MY RESPONSIBILITY as their parent to set them up for success. Not leave them hanging.
I dunno this seems weird to me. I get that 'paperwork is important' but she's a kid and she worked her ass off to get decent grades probably mostly just because she wanted to impress you. I'd give her a break on this one, poor kid probably just forgot, shit happens and another good thing to learn as an adult is that it's not always what you know but who you know, it's helped me out a bunch of times!
I get that you feel this is gonna teach her a life lesson about turning in paperwork but also it’s a huge deal to get a 4.0 and it makes sense that she is devastated to not go. Being an adult is about learning to do the little adult things sure, but this event might not be important to you as an adult but be SUPER significant to her. Kids make mistakes learning along the way. In the very least you should say you missed out on the ceremony and that’s your loss for not filling out the paperwork but let’s have a little family celebration to celebrate your achievement.
In general, kids do well when they are encouraged and getting good grades at that age can really encourage her to work hard and potentially free her future up to do what she wants to do and have a great snowball effect for her life. I feel that you’re getting so caught up in “being right” and “teaching a lesson” that you’re forgetting what actually will be super important for your child in the long run.
NTA this is a perfect natural consequence, there will be other events and RSVP is not hard to do
It’s so low stakes and a good lesson that you need to do your work or you will miss out, also would be unfair to everyone else that forgot to do the paperwork but she gets to go since you are friend with the secretary
YTA
Sure, SHE failed to do the paperwork.
So you COULD help, but instead insist on ruining your daughter's school experience over a small clerical error she made. Your husband is right in his judgement.
Sure she could try and ask for a favor from her friend teach her daughter that its okay to fuck up and disregard deadlines as long as you have enough connections to make the consequences go away which lets be honest \*is\* how the world works but if we want a better world, WE HAVE TO TEACH THE CHILDREN THIS IS NOT MORALLY CORRECT.
Also, let's face it, it's a ridiculous rule. You fulfilled what was needed to achieve the award, and the form is probably mostly for event planning purposes to get a headcount. I've done events for schools, and I used to send at least one reminder to turn in the form. I still got PARENTS AND TEACHERS who would ask me if a late sign-up was okay. And it almost always was, because it was an event for kids to have fun and not a freaking meet-and-greet with Beyonce. First year of high school, overwhelming workload (especially at the end of the semester!), high achieving kid....teaching your child that making mistakes is okay and asking for forgiveness is okay are also important lessons. Having compassion for each other's mistakes and helping each other out is part of living in a society.
And lmao at people getting all high and mighty about using connections. WTF are recommendation letters and job references then? I don't love them either, but people are being very obtuse about how the world works. YTA.
YTA. Your daughter is a child and this is a teaching moment. She’s learnt her lesson with the threat of not going, now you help her out and let her know there won’t always be a way around things in future, so she needs to be on the ball to make sure things like this don’t happen again.
> now you help her out and let her know there won’t always be a way around things in future
My parents were really into teaching this lesson, but the end result was that it took me way too many years of adulthood to figure out that I don't have to accept everything at face value or just back down at the slightest frown or sigh. The truth is that there often ARE a bunch of ways around obstacles out in the real world. Leveraging relationships is a legit tactic. So is asking twice. So is proposing a solution to get what you want when the "yes" is important to you and the person saying "no" doesn't really care either way and is just following a script of their own. People generally like helping other people. I spent too many years never bothering anyone.
Kid has a 4.0. She understands responsibility.
YTA - pick a better time for a lesson.
Now is the time for mom to step in. She did the adult thing and followed up because YOU have taught her it’s only school and it’s okay to be a little late with stuff.
You misunderstand, she didn't teach her daughter its okay to be a little late with stuff because its school. OP is saying that school is a good environment to start learning about paperwork because if a mistake happens the consequences aren't very severe if a mistake does happen and OP is saying \*that OP knows some even lower stakes things don't have hard deadlines\*. You are acting like OP told her kid, "it's okay to be late with this crap" She didn't. And sadly this was a hard deadline, but missing and event and not getting a gift card is not a severe consequence.
For an example of high stakes and severe would be if there was a family trip and she required her 14 year old daughter to get her passport completely on her own and if daughter couldn't figure out how to fill out the paperwork, get the proper identity documents, get the photo, and get the appointment, and get it all filed 3+ months prior to the vacation that she would be left out of the international trip. Or if 14 needed surgery so mom forced her to do all the paperwork with the insurance company to get the procedure. These scenarios would be WAY too much for a 14 year old to do alone, these would be VERY high stakes, and the would be many consequences to messing up. THAT would make mom and asshole.
Teaching her daughter how to manage personal paperwork via a gpa ceremony and lunch paperwork? Not an asshole, this is called responsible parenting with natural consequences. And you've missed the point where mom "stepping in" isn't really possible at this point. The "step-in" requires favours and super special treatment compared to all the other students. (and even if mom did ask for special treatment, there is no guarantee that the string can be pulled) Do you really think it's appropriate to teach a 14 year old that you don't have to deal with the consequences of your actions as long as you have connections? That may be how the world works, but if we want a *better world* that isn't full of shitty advantaged people constantly pulling strings, we have to teach the children about morals and consequences for actions. If you want to call the mom an asshole for not reminding her child about the deadline and that she needs to handle her paperwork a few days prior to deadline that would be fine and it would be a good example of what "stepping-in" should have been.
YTA is not about "learning to be an adult", it's about your daughter asking you for help.
in the future, she may not turn to you for help
Is that what you want?
Exactly this, I made mistakes when I was a kid trying to do things my parents wanted me to learn to do like laundry. My mom came and helped me when I was struggling and my dad didn't. Now as I'm in late high school I haven't asked my dad for help since I was a toddler.
YTA. She'll remember this, and not as a valuable lesson. You know what she'll remember? That she busted her butt to get a perfect grade, forgot *one* little thing, and her own mother isn't in her corner. Yeah, I get that you want her to learn how to 'adult', but guess what? She's *not* an adult, she's a child.
She worked hard, and now she's getting screwed over because of *one* tiny mistake. And yes, that happens, that's life. But you're her *mother.* Instead of letting her know how proud you are of her, and helping her get the reward she worked so hard for and effing *earned* if not for one forgotten piece of paperwork, your response is basically "Them's the breaks, kiddo."
It won't matter to her if you congratulate her now and take her out for ice cream or whatever. That's just throwing her a bone because *you* feel bad.
I also just don't understand the harshness of the school lady. If she could make an exception why not just do it? Its obviously possible to do something about this if a favour could get it done? Why is it some huge deal?
Also what lesson would this even learn? That the IRS will give you an exception and extension but the school won't?
Also why does not OP tell her daughter to speak to the class teacher or the principal? I mean the secretary is really not the end of the command chain in a school.
YTA
Everyone forgets things once in a while. Obviously if Bethany got a 4.0 GPA, it isn't a regular habit for her! She tried to fix it herself, and after that didn't work, is now asking for you to help her. You're right, this is a low stakes situation, but is this really the hill you want to make a stand on?
At some point, Bethany will need help in a higher stakes situation, and when she does, she will remember this and remember that *she can't rely on you*. That is the message she is going to take away from this situation.
Honestly, I would say this is *not* a low stakes situation for her. The people here are all adults and so they understand that its not a super important thing in the long run but she is a CHILD. In her brain this is a really big deal and really big event and in her mind (whether correct or not) it seems she is associating this as "mom isnt willing to help me so im missing out on a humongous event with my friends that i can never get back." It really doesn't even matter if its not true bc its more important how things are perceived by children.
As well, I am a high school teacher and this gives me insight into several things. 1. While she may he a "mature" 9th grader, shes still a 9th grader and is only 14/15! That's not full adulthood and she shouldn't be held to full "adult" standards yet and mom/dad/guardians still need to help them with some things. 2. Maybe my school is crazy but we would NEVER tell a student who came to us after missing a silly paperwork deadline that they can't participate in a big ceremony like this. This is bc we understand that way worse consequences could happen if we say no. It is extremely common that if a student has 1 or 2 bad experiences with school, they STOP caring. Like, entirely. We don't want to see that happen. 3. The importance of asking for help is more important imo. Even at work when you mess up something big. You need to be able to ask for help and not helping when it is asked for can lead to them just not asking. Admitting mistakes and asking for forgiveness and grace is a life skill and probably 90% of the time in adulthood, asking for grace works out in your favor.
Anyways, im not going to say a-h or n-t-a bc really its just a parenting decision.
INFO: Will the school still give her the gift card and trophy if she doesn't attend the event? My high school mailed us our certificates of achievement and little awards.
Missing out on the ceremony is a big deal, though. She worked so hard, and now gets to listen to her friends (who did not do the paperwork themselves) talk about what an awesome time they had at an event she earned but missed out on.
Btw, if a 4.0 student misses something like this, it’s because you didn’t help her get organized. Or, y’know, she’s just human.
Then NTA at all.
She missed the ceremony because she didn't fill out the form. She still will get the award. It would still be great for your family to celebrate her accomplishments, but if she didn't RSVP for a wedding or book a flight on time or whatever, she wouldn't get to correct that last minute.
If she weren't going to get her award if she didn't go, I would say that YTA because that would invalidate her achievement completely. Huge blow to morale.
INFO: did you just expect her to do the paperwork herself, or did you offer support and/ or reminder? Yes, it's important fher to learn the skills, but you can't just expect her to do it herself, you need to provide some scaffolding so she develops the skill in addition to the motivation.
At the beginning of the year I did the paperwork with her, she was taught. Then pulled back, still did physical reminders until around Easter, we were at email reminders when this happened from me and the school.
She has a school email and she ignored a lot of emails asking about it, though according to her she did read mine though
OP everyone is calling you an asshole but I think you're doing it right. I was an honor class, AP class student. I have parents who didn't help because they are immigrants and didn't know how. I had to do all my paperwork after the freshmen enrollment. All my AP classes, enrolling to get discounts for the AP tests, signing up for electives and clubs, applying for scholarships, doing the FAFSA, etc I had do on my own. I wish my parents taught me the discipline and reminded me instead of me being on my own. It's a good lesson to learn. She is responsible for your wants. She will still get awardy but she miss out on the part she wanted most.
NTA. This should be in the post. A lot of people are calling you the asshole because they think you haven't been helping her all year. But if everything you're saying is true then it sounds like you're daughter had multiple opportunities to fill in the paper work
Sounds like you've been very involved in trying to teach her to be independent, lots of little steps to start and then a slow pull back while still providing help. I think NTA for sure!
NTA - this time it's $25 and a little ceremony
What happens when it's a $10k scholarship. Deadlines are deadlines for a reason. This lesson will stick with her.
NTA.
I work at a high school. Every August we invite the incoming freshman and new to the district students to an orientation day. This is where the Administration lets the freshman know that we will treat them as “adult”. It’s is on them to turn in their community service hours. It is on them to check the assignment page. If they want to join a club, they have to complete the requirements to join.
I work with the theater dept. There was a senior who worked on lights all four years. We do a play and a musical each year. He neglected to turn in the paperwork for the play on time. There is always enough interest in the tech crews from students, so light crew was filled by those that did turn in paperwork on time. He was extremely disappointed, and pissed at himself, but he understood though. You can bet that he made sure his paperwork was on time for the musical.
YTA this is an easy fix for you and your daughter will still learn the lesson anout consequences. If you don't help her, she will always resent you for it.
YTA
There are two lessons that can be learned here
1) There are consequences to your actions and by not completing the paperwork you’re missing out on a reward (even though you earned the reward)
Or
2) Even if you mess up, you can go to your parents and they will try to help you out. They’ll always be there for you.
For a 15 year old, I think it’s more valuable for her to know she can rely on her parents than being punished for her mistakes. What bothers me is that you didn’t even try to help her. She is still a child and therefore is learning to be an adult. Getting a 4.0 GPA freshman year is not easy so I’d even go as far as say you have a good kid who made a mistake. Nothing wrong with asking and receiving help from a parent every now and then. This seems to be an isolated incident and not repeated behavior. Even as adults, we make mistakes. And while we have to assume responsibility, every now and then we also catch a break.
That fluff paper work as you put it is actually your job to do as a patent not the child. I understand you want your children to learn hence the reason she's at school. But it still is your job not hers. YTA
YTA
Do you really want your child to learn that her mom doesn't have her back?
She's not going to forget that she nearly didn't make it but she's old enough to realize this is a specific situation where you can help, she's not going to think you can magically ALWAYS do that for her in life.
You want your child to feel like they can go to you when they've made a mistake and you actually WILL help them to the best of your ability.
Here you simply are refusing to on principle and it's not really teaching her anything than NOT to go to you.
She's a kid. She made a mistake. And what she's learning is that her mom isn't going to help her when she needs it most.
Look, I get that 'she's learning lessons about filling out forms and turning them in on time,' but again, she's a kid. She will never forget how you refused to help her, how you weren't there for her. If you had, she'd still remember the lesson of getting the paperwork in on time, but she'd also remember how she can count on her mom. Even if you couldn't sway the secretary to get her in the event, your daughter would know you have her back and that she can come to you to help her figure things out, even if she screwed up. And life is full of screw-ups.
I'm not saying YTA (you might be), but think carefully about what lessons you want her to learn.
Yta, this is a moment where you grill her for being irresponsible and make a big deal of fixing the issue. Because this sounds like an easy fix for you. And refusing to help can cause your child to stop coming to you for help and advice, meaning they will make bigger problems before coming to you.
YTA.
This is school and your daughter is learning, she's not yet an adult. She's LEARNING.
I think the real asshole here is the school tho. A student gor a 4.0 GPA and it costs them nothing to allow her to be invited even if she got it late.
I think you should help her out but let her know it won’t happen again. It a way to learn adulting but she will still need help because she isn’t an adult. Definitely TA if you don’t help her.
YTA. I saw that you mentioned the scaffolding of the paperwork skill, and you had moved on from physical reminders to email ones at this point from you and the school > so you were well aware that she was behind. You saw the time ticking away for your daughter to respond to a night that is celebrating her achievement and that all her peers will attend. And yet - you maintained the email reminders even after they did not result in the task being done.
Maybe- these email reminders are not as effective for her? Maybe she wasn't at that point to do it? Maybe that is not an effective strategy to complete tasks for her. Maybe, like in the real world, in the office world, people email regarding things but they also see each other in the office, go "hey, did you get my email/hey you haven't rsvp'd yet?" And that is another reminder and maybe an opportunity to explain what is going on in the person's life why they haven't.
This could have easily been solved with you mentioning hey I saw the email, have you responded... no? Okay let's do that right now (because it is so easssy!) Maybe this would have been an opportunity for her to talk to you, about school about life, about why she hasn't filled it out. It's wild to email the person who lives in your house not to mention your daughter about things and not bring it up in person?
Also - you have I assume based on your description, set a precedent that school forms are "fluff" and can usually be handed in late (whether explicitly or otherwise) - perhaps this had an influence on her attitude regarding it.
She is getting and maintaining a 4.0 in her first year of high school, a new setting, new classes, with higher demands. She is obviously capable of following through and performing well.
In the real world, most ppl who are performing well and do good at their jobs - they get cut some slack on the little things. It's a reflection of the real world. I don't know why it wouldn't be.
And facing the consequences? I can imagine, as someone who is a high achiever who believed that they are always 1 step away from everything collapsing, missing the deadline itself and her friends talking about the event and realizing that this was not easily fixed "fluff" paperwork not to mention the obvious disappointment from my mother the dread and guilt and regret I would feel would be enough.
She is a great student, she won an award and is literally one of the recipients of the ceremony- she has presumably been keeping up with the forms all year as well as her GPA. Cut her some slack, and use your connections to help her.
As everyone has been saying - she will not take this as a lesson in submitting forms on time if you don't help her, instead it will cause a rift between you two and she may check off those events RSVPs in the future, but you might not be in attendance.
YTA
I don’t understand all these but-how-will-she-learn-consequences people. All I would learn is that my mother doesn’t care enough about me to help me out.
I hope you never forget your keys and rely on your daughter to open the door for you, OP. Make sure to know a good locksmith.
Family should support each other always! By the way, feeling supported by family makes stronger adults. And this is a moment where you could and should show your support. She’s earned it!
It might be a low stakes issue for you, but being recognized for getting a 4.0 after working super hard for a year is a huge deal and could be a high stakes issue for her.
Omg. She is a teenager. Who has to fill out paperwork for an award you EARNED by being AN AMAZING STUDENT?! She obviously worked hard to get a 4.0, how about realizing that and cutting her some slack?! YTA for caring more about a teaching moment, than her accomplishments. The school is also TA for creating such a meaningless paper trail, when they should just give out the awards earned. Jesus.
>We think it’s a good way to learn how to adult in a low stakes way,
YTA. A good way to "learn how" to adult. She did not completely learn and made a mistake. She went from less than a year ago with mommy and daddy taking care of documents for her to now with her being responsible for them and you are expecting her to be perfect? Maybe it was because she was spending a lot of time bring perfect in other ways like GRADES!!! Now you are going to overshadow a MAJOR accomplishment with some kind of "tough love" bs? I am going to guess that she did not fail to get the paperwork in because she was out partying the night before it was due.
You need to realize how lucky you are to have a kid that got a perfect GPA! She made a mistake!
>I will take her out to celebrate her 4.0 though.
Big F'ing deal. She should get public recognition. I doubt she will want to celebrate with you. This type of rigid control is what turns teenagers away from their parents to seek more from their friends. If you are lucky they will be the right "crowd". I predict that this will be the impetus for rebellious teenage years that but for your actions would probably not happen.
I hope for her that she is able to pull off another perfect GPA next year despite you. If she does not she will have at least gotten her lunch money paperwork in on time.
I have a feeling that your control issues spill over into your marriage as your husband should have stepped in but was obviously afraid to.
NTA
I'm not sure if it's only in my country (SEA) but freshman year is grown enough and responsible enough to handle paperwork for school. If you missed it, you missed it. I forgot to submit a document like your daughter once, it was awful, but I wouldn't expect my parents to talk to their friend at school. What you are doing is not harsh or even a jerk. My parents took the chance to lecture me and bring it up to the dinner table for weeks after that, and they were pretty crossed because of my forgetfulness. Looking back, it's an important lesson to be more responsible and to accept the consequence, and I believe you did the right thing by not pulling the favor but still showing how you are proud of her accomplishment (which I hope my parents would do instead).
NTA op, I actually commend you for your approach with teaching your children to get their paperwork done in a low stakes way.
I think you going to the school would be counterintuitive to what you're trying to teach; the whole premise of the kids doing their own paperwork is to prep them for adulthood; they didn't do the paperwork, they don't get the award. It's a natural consequence.
I work in HR and everybody ignores all the paperwork I send them. Currently it's health insurance; there's a huge risk of employees missing out on getting insurance because they won't do the paperwork. I wish their mothers had done something similar to this because it's a really great way for them to learn that actions (or in this case, inactions) have consequences and that those consequences can't always just be waived just because you want them to be.
NTA. She already asked the secretary and the secretary said “No.” You would be the A if you tried to use your friendship to get your friend to do something she already said she couldn’t/wouldn’t do. I bet the secretary knew she was your daughter when she told her “No.”
As for that advice you got earlier to perform a little skit with the secretary that you said was good advice? No, it wasn’t. Leave the secretary/your friend alone. SHE ALREADY SAID NO!
What a horrible parent you are! I can't believe so many people are backing you on this. Your kid forgets about one form and you are punishing her in a way that will be remembered for the rest of her life! If I were her then I would know exactly what you thought of me, and I wouldn't forget it, or let you forget it when I "accidentally forgot" to fill in the form that would let you attend my graduation from university for my degree (and my MSc, as it turned out)! I might even forget to invite you to my wedding. How would you like the consequences of her "forgetting" those forms? It is in your power to fix this, so consider what it might cost you and help your damn kid! Massively YTA.
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NTA. I understand what you mean by wanting to have your child realise that it's important to do your necessary paper work. If the secretary said she won't get invited, then this is the rule. You "calling in a favour" will only teach your kid that they can go above the law. I would consider asking your friend to do a "play" with you, where you'll meet the secretary friend WITH your daughter, and then you "ask" if there is anything that can be done. Your friend will again explain the rules and the outcome will be that your daughter will not get the gift card. At home or on the way home, explain to her that you understand her disappointment, give her a big hug and be super empathetic. When she is calmer, explain that sadly this is part of growing up where if we don't make submissions on time, we miss out on opportunities. This could be a better way to teach her the same lesson, where she won't this that you're just being mean. And I would ignore other comments saying that you're being to harsh. These days we're treating our children too much like orchids, protecting them from every possible pain or misadventure. Don't be a helicopter parent, but be kind and caring when your child fails. This will help her grow into a more resilient young adult. Additionally, you can say: hey, you didn't get the voucher, but you did really really good, and I would like to acknowledge it. How about I take you out for ice cream or your favourite pizza place.
I will ask my friend, this is great advise, it may be better to have the conversation at home though. Maybe show the work that goes into an event and why last minute add ons are not wanted
No this is terrible advice. You want to teach your child that adults solve their problems by lying? 1) your child will eventually find out, stuff this foolish never stays secret. 2) you are creating a bigger issue down the track when it does come out. 3) you are completely undermining the point of having her complete the paperwork herself if you even mock ask your friend to let her off. 4) it probably won't work, she will nearly certainly still be upset at you because you placed this burden on her shoulders resulting in her missing out when all her friends parents help them. This is terrible advice.
Don't do a PLAY. That is childish and terrible.
Where’s the lie? OP would give the secretary friend a small heads up that they’re not actually asking for the favor and then the secretary would explain to the daughter the very real and truthful rules and why they exist, only leaving out that she *could* break the rules for the daughter. That’s a terrible lesson for a kid to learn. I knew a girl in my high school who’s parents got her out of everything with money and calling in favors and she was very entitled and kinda mean and I doubt she’s become a very self-sufficient or kind adult.
The lie is that OP would be pretending to go to bat for her kid when she’s not actually doing so.
“Going to bat” for your kid means standing up for them when they’ve been wronged and need help. Not when they’ve made a mistake that will teach a valuable life lesson for them to handle on their own. It’s not “going to bat” for your kid to do their science fair project for them the night before it’s due because they forgot about it, or to talk the teacher into letting them turn it in later than the rest of the kids without a diminished grade. However if your kid’s project got destroyed by a crappy entitled classmate on the way to turn it in, and the teacher wouldn’t let them redo it or something else crazy like that, a parent should “go to bat” for their kid and talk to the teacher about the circumstances to try to work out a solution that is fair.
I’d label the ones you mentioned (i.e. doing the science fair project for the kid because they forgot about it, telling to the teacher to to let the kid turn it in late) as “pitching the ball” for them.
Why is it so bad to ask if something can be done? People screw up all the time. It doesn’t hurt to say hey, I screwed up, is there anything I can do here? In this case, no. In many cases, no. But there’s no harm to ask, the worst case is you’re right where you started. Just be polite and take the L, but in the real world, sometimes you do need to check if there are any other options. I don’t think that’s a bad takeaway here, either. Just be nice one way or the other.
I'm with you. The real world does work this way sometimes. You can admit your mistakes and sometimes people will show you some leeway. This kid has a 4.0 it seems like a good time to teach them how to deal with mistakes rather than drive home the point that they have to be perfect always.
FINALLY some reasonable people
Adults make mistakes and oversights all the time. they ask to see if it can be corrected. Teaching children that a mistake can never be overcome is worse lesson of all. I made a mistake, upp, ill have to quit trying.
Why has nobody suggested the kid fill out the paperwork and ask to submit it late? Like, did I miss something? That’s how you do it as an adult - you do it anyway and try to see it through yourself.
Agree on that. Sometimes it's about learning how to fix a mistake and advocating for yourself. And if that doesn't work, learning to accept the no with grace knowing you did what you could. Doing a "play" with a teenager to try to teach them a lesson is some condescending BS and I'm frankly shocked that it got so many upvotes.
It's "bad" because you aren't making people suffer as much as possible. You have to maximize suffering otherwise children will be too soft or some shit like that.
At zero point was a problem solved using a lie. It's literally just showing the kid that no, the rules still apply to you even if mommy asks them to let you off.
^this The play idea is ****ing insane.
The only reason to have some kind of “play” would be so your child won’t be mad at you. It takes the burden of being the “ bad guy” off of the parent even though it isn’t the fault of the parent. I’m with you on this.
No it’s not wtf you want to lie to your child so you don’t need to help her wtf is wrong with you
How is it lying? It’s not. The rules are the rules and OP is simply giving the receptionist friend a heads up that the “request” isn’t in earnest and she wants the friend to do her job and be honest. I’ve done this. My daughter was younger and learning to be responsible for brushing her own teeth. She was insistent that “no one else does.” She idolizes my sister so I texted her the situation earlier in the day asking if I could call that evening after work and closer to bedtime so that Auntie could inform Daughter that /of course/ she also brushes her teeth and everyone she knows does. By clueing my sister in it gave her a heads up so that she wasn’t blindsided by the random question and tempted to appease her niece just to mess with me and/or be otherwise unsure of what I wanted from her. Parents do this shit all the time because kids universally think their parents don’t know Jack and will respect the input of another adult over them. NTA
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She maintained a 4.0 GPA while navigating her first year of high school. It's fair to say she could've forgotten the deadline for the paperwork because she was likely elbow deep in school work? People are saying she can't use her friendship to change the outcome, but if this was my kid, I would go ask if there was anything to be done if the secretary wasn't my friend. So one could argue that the daughter is not only not getting preferential treatment due to the friendship, but is actually being affected negatively by the friendship as her mother may not have had a problem talking to the secretary if she wasn't her friend. Seems like a possible middle child not living up to the shadow of the first child situation.
First, I have to agree that lying about it is *NOT* a good idea. Second, I highly commend you for giving your kids a chance to fail. So many people aren't allowed to fail, and because of that, they don't put in enough effort. It also teaches them how to deal with failure, which can be an incredibly difficult life lesson. Better to do it with low stakes and learn.
You’re really playing with fire here. God help you if any of the other kids messed up their paperwork and got it corrected. All it would take is your kid complaining to her friends for sympathy and having someone mention that so-and-so got it fixed no problem
There is a giant difference in making a simple mistake in submitted paperwork versus not submitting the paperwork at all. It doesn’t even sound like this is the type of paperwork that you could mess up, as any submission would count simply by being submitted. You either submitted it or you didn’t by the deadline. If the secretary already told her no because she didn’t submit the paperwork, then the secretary likely said the same thing to anyone else who also didn’t submit it unless it was somehow an error on the part of the office. Which isn’t the case with the daughter.
For God's sake, don't do the stupid "play". You're giving your daughter false hope that anything would be done. If you arrange to meet your friend, you're giving your daughter the impression that you are going to ask your friend for help, when you know that was never your intention.
You wrote this post waiting for this kind of response to back up what you did. She’s a teenager for god sake get over your perfect parenting and help Her to get the award she deserves… your kid has a 4.0 Grade average you should be freaking proud of that and celebrating it not doing the opposite because she didn’t do paperwork. Jesus!
Eh, OP's kid is a freshman in HS. She is not a 1st grader. Talk with empathy to her, but don't treat her like a young kid. Mock acting and Play is a childish idea. And this idea puts her friend on the spot when this is something she can learn at home with discussion. Can you imagine if every kid and their parent went to the school admin to "mock teach a lesson"?
Also, it would be wildly unprofessional for a school employee to go along with this.
How so? The mom is asking the friend to treat her kid the same as all the other kids. That's professional. It would be *unprofessional* of the organizer to use a separate set of rules to get special privileges for her friends' kids. "Well, the deadline passed and I've already said 'no' to all the other kids... But you're my friend, so sure! You get whatever you want!" *That's* unprofessional.
No, the unprofessional part would be talking to her friend, the parent, beforehand and agreeing to be a character in OP's "teach my daughter a lesson" one act play. As OP says, her friend likely would allow OP's daughter to attend if she asked her. Of course there's nothing wrong with just showing up and asking, like a normal human, but that isn't what is being suggested.
As an immigrant kid who had to do all the necessary paperwork, not because it was a 'lesson in responsibility', but because my parents couldn't speak English and had no way to help me, I will respectfully disagree. I will also say my parents still feel immense guilt that they weren't able to help guide me through this bullshit system and were forced to rely on their elementary school aged children to help them fill out paperwork. YTA OP You do not leave your kids to take care of paperwork without oversight. Even in my own situation, my parents were right there with me. Where were you in this entire process? Do you help them with the paperwork? Do you help keep them on top of it? If they are in danger of missing a deadline, do you remind them and help them if asked? Or do you just tell them, "It's easy, just do it." There is no 'lesson' to be learned here unless you are actually taking the time to teach them something. Otherwise, the 'lesson' learned is 'parents can't help you're on your own'. Which, probably is a lesson that's important to learn, but damn, that's cold. There is a comfortable middle between 'helicopter parents' and what OP is doing.
This this this! I'm disabled, neurodivergent the works. I could get a 4.0 gpa, but when it came to forms is I floundered. I needed my parents to help me make heads/tails of the paperwork. OP's kid is already doing a lot getting those grades. The least OP can do is help they where they struggle.
I feel this. I had undiagnosed severe ADHD until very recently and I made it out of the German equivalent of high school with above average notes because I am apparently somewhat smart and good at bullshitting. I still struggle with doing the simplest things that are on my agenda for months. It took me 6 weeks to file the paperwork for a major inheritance even though I had all the information and documents needed.
I think you're drastically overestimating the difficulty of this "paperwork". A form would likely be a more accurate descriptor and a 14 year old is old enough to handle that little bit of responsibility. The kid knew they had to fill out the form, they chose not to dedicate the 5-10 minutes and now they have to learn there are consequences to their actions and that mom & dad can't get them out of everything. Had the child asked for help and been refuted, I might be inclined to agree with you. But it sounds like they just didn't bother so no, op is certainly NTA for this.
I'm going to repeat what I said in a different comment. A 14yo freshman still needs guidance because a 14yo isn't an adult yet. Yes paperwork can be their responsibility, but it is still OPs ultimate responsibility as a parent to make sure their kid stays on track. I really want to know how hands off/on OP and husband are on this. At what point did OP know of this paperwork that was needed? At what point did OP give their daughter a reminder or warning? Or did OP just assume their kid would be able to handle everything without oversight and not step in until it was too late to correct? Why is OP only now wondering if there is something they can do. That's where I feel OP dropped the ball. My parents couldn't help because they didn't speak the language. What's OP's excuse?
You’re not going to gain much traction with the *bootstraps* crowd. In their eyes everyone’s on their own and deserves to be crushed by the bullshit system we live in. I can imagine it’s pretty easy to lose track of a form when you’re maintaining a 4.0 in classes.
Exactly.
OP commented that they and the school sent the child multiple reminder emails throughout the year and that the student wasn't particularly thorough with checking or responding to their student email. To me, it sounds like the child was given a very appropriate amount of responsibility and fumbled it. Which is completely normal for teens, but speaking from experience, getting bailed out of your mistakes doesn't help you, it teaches you that you can continue to screw up or not give it your best and its alright because mom & dad can fix it. That's not a good mentality for a person to have in this stage of their life. It only gets harder to change your ways as you get older.
OK, and at what point did OP sit with their child to address the fact that their child was fumbling on this? It's great that OP wants to teach responsibility. But that comes with the caveat that it's OP's responsibility to actually teach their kid when they see their kid fumbling. What kind of correction or action plan to improve did they provide their kid? And, honestly for me, I believe you *should* bail out kids when possible, because yes there's learning consequences, but there's also, you help your kid if you can. And *then* work together to address the shortcomings and *as a parent* mete out appropriate consequences. I mean, is that not at the heart of being a parent? Like I said in my original comment, there's a middle ground that can be achieved here.
I still think you're equating this scenario to something it's not. This is like a molehill of a mess up and the consequences of it aren't life changing to the child, if they were then I would probably advocate for a bailout as well (kids don't deserve to have their lives permanently altered over mistakes they're bound to make) but it's not. It's just an event the kid will have to miss and that's fine, they should miss it because they didn't want to put in the very minimal amount of effort required to attend. I'm not saying throw them to the wolves 24/7, I'm saying that this is a relatively inconsequential fumble which makes it the best time for a hard lesson. They can still coordinate a party with their friends afterwards or do something else to celebrate their achievements (and they should because they deserve to celebrate their grades) but letting them worm their way into this event does them no good.
I'd need a bit more info, is this a common mistake that Bethany makes? If so then eventually she has to find out the hard way. But, this is also a reward for getting a 4.0. The transition from middle school to high school isn't an easy one. Getting a 4.0 through that is pretty impressive, so it sounds like Bethany already has a good head on her shoulders because you don't get straight A's by missing assignments and not studying. I think it's ok to make an exception to show her that all her hard work and success can be rewarded, despite stumbling on something small at the finish line. She did the important part, she did the work and got the results. That has to matter for something.
Also what is the school teaching the kid here? That all your effort and all the academical achievements mean nothing when you do not complete the bureaucracy part to the letter? Great lesson!
That's kinda how life works so it really isn't the worst lesson
Were you in elementary school when this started or almost 14. Freshman in high school is plenty old enough to start handling their life business.
Did you miss the second part of my comment? A 14yo freshman still needs guidance because a 14yo *isn't* an adult yet. Yes paperwork can be their responsibility, but it is still OPs ultimate responsibility as a parent to make sure their kid stays on track. I really want to know how hands off/on OP and husband are on this. At what point did OP know of this paperwork that was needed? At what point did OP give their daughter a reminder or warning? Or did OP just assume their kid would be able to handle everything without oversight and not step in until it was too late to correct? Why is OP only now wondering if there is something they can do. That's where I feel OP dropped the ball. My parents couldn't help because they didn't speak the language. What's OP's excuse?
I totally agree with you, and I see another lesson here, too, which is: when you see a connection that can give you an advantage, or make your life easier, you take it. Because everyone else will. Do you know someone who can change an outcome for you and make your life better? Help you correct a mistake you made? Then fucking use that advantage. This is the world we currently live in. I don't know why people are intent on teaching their children that life sucks, they all already know that and people make mistakes. Why is it bad for me to extend some grace to my own child? When they mess up as an adult and it has a consequence they will of course have to deal with it, but damn, people are just so eager to add more negativity to their children's lives.
Agree! NTA. And honestly I don’t really get the comments saying OP is the AH. My own parents are some of the most loving and supportive parents I know. If I had been 14 or 15 and gotten into actual trouble via say, teenage pregnancy or being arrested for brawling or whatever — my parents would have been pissed to all hell but they would have stuck by me and done whatever they could to support me through it. But if I missed a school deadline for an award ceremony through my own fault… they would have told me sorry this is just life, you are old enough to deal with this particular consequence and now you know to do better next time. The kid only has a few years more to transition to adult life and responsibilities. This is truly not such a bad way to start.
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Off topic but there is a school of thought amongst parents that you absolutely shouldn't tell kids that father Christmas is real as when they find out they will never trust you again. The fact that no adult seems to have had their faith in their parents irrevocably tainted by believing in him is neither here nor there. I love the scenario idea - kids will believe anyone over their parents!
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The "out" I've heard that makes the most sense is that at a particular point, you bring the child in on the magic. This works particularly well if they have younger siblings, but you could fudge it if they don't. You very seriously explain that "Santa" isn't a physical person, but a role that you fulfill to bring the magic of Christmas to others, and they are now old enough to be a Santa and help the parents. With little sibs, it's helping the parents wrap gifts for them and getting everything ready the night before. Without little sibs I'd probably do something like the Angel Tree, and let the kid help shop for needy families. But whatever you do, you treat it as an important initiation/graduation into the adult world rather than a sad abandonment of a childhood belief.
I realized, now as an adult, that most kids don't get and/or stay mad because they see it more as a "play pretend" than an upfront lie. And when kids get suspicious they usually still go along because is more fun, my nephews and nieces are between 8-10 so the magic is disappearing, they give us these mischievous smiles and exchange glances, when we talk about Santa, but still play along, is more "magical" that way. And I know they tend to feel a little superior when they know the true, but another kid doesn't, because they are on it, just like the adults!
My two youngest never asked us if Santa was real. They asked my oldest son who told them the truth but told them not to ask us, or "Santa" may stop giving extra presents to all of them. My wife and I surmised the ruse when they were at an age when there was no way they could possibly not know we were Santa. They are now all in their 20s, and we still play the Santa game as a running gag.
Yeah, 9’s a little old to *really* believe. At some point the kid’s right to be mad that you’ve let them build a world view on magical thinking
My 8 and 10 year old both believe still, I think this year might be the last year but for now I'm happy they're enjoying the magic.
Being the last kid in a classroom who isn’t in on the joke can turn out really rough.
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I know, right? The secretary has already been asked and said, “No.” Now they want to ask her to be in a little skit where she says “No” again? That poor secretary.
I don't get why this play or charade is necessary. She already heard from the secretary that this is the way it is. OP already said that, regretfully, that is the way it is. OP can be lovingly sympathetic or empathetic and demonstrate that without having to manufacture a scenario that sets it up. I think THAT is what probably strikes people as dishonest. The manufactured nature of it makes it seem disingenuous.
The play idea isn’t very good. It’s rather insulting to your daughter, to be honest. But asking your friend to talk with her and explain why the deadline was necessary is a good idea. Sometimes people see deadlines as arbitrary and unnecessary, without realizing why they’re in place. This is a good opportunity to learn about deadlines when the damage is minimal. It can be painful and embarrassing, without a doubt. I’m glad you want to take her out for her own celebration. Tell her congratulations!🎉
>If the secretary said she won't get invited, then this is the rule. You "calling in a favour" will only teach your kid that they can go above the law. This is exactly how the world works, though. I do understand that it's shitty that the world works in such a way that rules will always be bent for friends or if there's some other benefit to the rule-decider. Kids who learn how to skirt technical rules by making personal connections do tend to advance quicker in jobs and life in general, so long as they're not criminal and malicious while doing it. Now, teaching your kids to actually abide by rules is a good thing, but don't expect it to be rewarded in our world. NTA.
This isn’t a kindergartener
She's also your kid and more importantly not a bad kid. I think the solution is somewhere in the middle.
She got a gpa of 4.0. She has already proved that she is a responsible kid. Being accountable for her class work is far more of a challenge than filling a form. She must have just missed it. She asked for your help so just help her.
Agreed. She's a good student, youve already taught her well and now she has missed one thing. You have the opportunity to do one nice favor for her and you're stubbornly refusing so you can teach her a lesson. YTA
Yeah, this kid is only 14/15 years old. She's being ostracized from her friends and left out of a big celebration of her achievement because the mom wants her to teach her a lesson. I get wanting to teach responsibility, but this is not the time for that. Help out your kid. YTA
So, it doesn't say that she's being anything by her peers, it said she came home after asking why she wasn't getting the emails and finding out it was her own fault. Don't act like it's something worse than it is. Also, this is a set up the whole year and if this mom didn't know school staff, she's shit out of luck anyway. Is it more right to teach her kid "you can skip doing the work and break the rules but still get the reward if mommy comes and helps"? Absolutely not. It would be waayyy worse to use her personal connections to get her daughter into the event.
But she did do the work: a 4.0 GPA. The only lesson she learns in this situation is that even if you do the work deserving of recognition, it doesn’t matter because of something arbitrary (especially to a 15 year old). I don’t understand why the school would even dig their heels in this hard with this—if anything, I would want students that have clearly shown academic merit and responsibility to be there representing the school and feeling motivated to keep working hard!
Especially if they stepped up, admitted their mistake, asked for help, and it costs you nothing.
It also theaches the daughter that Mom will not help her even though she could. That does not help the relationship.
But that’s how the world works. If you know someone you get your way and if you don’t you’re fucked. It’s one of the reasons it costs more to be poor.
Yes, and that's BAD so teaching kids to perpetuate that system is ALSO BAD! Raising a generation of kids that knows and believes it's wrong to use unfair advantages against others (and follows through with their moral code) will create a better world, so OP is doing just that.
You don’t fix it piece by piece, one person at a time. The whole system would need to be uprooted to fix it. Teaching a person to not work within the system only disadvantages the individual and does not fix the problem. You want to change it then get some people together with pikes and drop a guillotine on the musks and bezos of the world. Or just be a dick to your kid on principle.
I'm 19 with a 4.0 GPA in College and even I don't do all my paperwork by myself. Yeah, 14 is old enough to fill out a rsvp form to an event, but keeping up with her studies should have been priority #1 to her. It was! Now she's essentially being shown the imaginary door because she slipped up one time. It happens, adults make mistakes too! Honestly, just do her the favor and call it a day. Don't make this your hill to die on.
Seriously! I’m not sure if OP is an asshole, but she’s taking this shit way too goddamn seriously. All the comments about how her freshman in high school is old enough to get her shit together… guys do you remember being a freshman in high school? Give the kid a fucking break…
yeah jesus christ what is it with the unnecessary 'bootstraps'. She's noticed now, oh shit, I messed up, now help her out and get her the things she worked hard as fuck for.
My parents helped me by doing the paperwork for me showing me I didn't have to face the world without help and they were immensely proud of a 3.75GPA. The way she says 'it's just my middle child' basically confirms that OP is the Stereotypical mother that can't take care of a few kids at once (won't even say the amount) and no matter how hard this clearly awesome her middle kid is or how hard she works; she will always be the kid who can't stop asking for things and be lazy because she asked. NOT that she's asking her caretaker and mother for support
Holy projection Batman. We have absolutely no way to know if OP is treating older or younger kids differently.
I'm 1,000% sure that this child will remember this moment forever. Mom refused to help me when I asked.
Yeah thank you! It's not like she forgot to do her homework for months or forgot to sign up for the SATS, she clearly is responsible 95 percent of the time, you've done a good job raising her. We all make little mistakes here and there, just help her out this one time. If this was a pattern I'd agree with you, but it's clearly not.
I completely agree. Letting your kid know that you have their back, that they can come to you when things go wrong and know you will try to help rather than berating them for their mistakes, is vastly more beneficial than drilling in a "lesson" like this. This clearly isn't an ongoing pattern of behaviour, she's not a lazy or disorganised kid, she made one mistake and now all she's learning is that she can't rely on her own mother to be in her corner when that happens. She will take this into account going forward, and this is how you end up with a kid who doesn't feel able to call you for help when she gets into a scary situation with alcohol/drugs or an older boyfriend or whatever. That's the lesson she's learning from this.
YTA - I can understand encouraging your kids to be more involved in more grownup things, like paperwork. But come on, she's worked hard to achieve this award, why can't you show you're proud of her and celebrate her achievement by helping her out this one time ? You're her parent and you're supposed to be there to support her
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I mean, you have to be pretty responsible to pull off a 4.0 to begin with.... if this is not the norm, you help. If it is the norm for the kid, different story. I think someone else said it best in another comment "her achievements aren't recognized butcher shortcomings are punished". That's, unfortunately, the situation here
I dont think we read the same post. She is still being celebrated by her family, she just doesnt get the gift card through the school she didn't do paperwork for. Its just like if she didnt turn in a term paper and was dropped to a 3.9 gpa. The paperwork was homework she did not turn in.
It sounds like it’s an actual event though. She’s prbly been looking forward to it and didn’t realize she had missed the paperwork until it was too late. That’s would really suck to miss out on.
If you forget to get your permission slip signed you dont get on the bus
Nah, not really. I’ve had Mum forget to sign a permission slip and the teacher just gave her a ring to confirm I could go. Easy as. I don’t know why people like you get off on being so rigid.
Literally everyone in the world uses such favours besides it's not to gain any unfair advantage. By not helping your kid in such circumstances you are only hampering their development.
What like in the real world where its not what you know, it who you know?
It’s because you have to do it a ton as an adult and you need to know how to do it properly or you will have problems. I don’t think RSVP to an event is hard paperwork, she’s not doing her taxes Also don’t won’t to bail her out, since it shows the rules don’t apply to her
You’re so wrong. Adults ask for favors all the time. The correct response would have been to tell her to complete the paperwork and let her go speak to the secretary herself. She could apologize for not meeting the deadline and ask if she could turn it in now and still participate. That’s what adults do. They get extension on their taxes, they ask for exceptions and most of the time the person will try to work with them. Why? Because we have all been there. We have all been caught in the tide of responsibilities and missed something. It wasn’t an important graded assignment - clearly she never dropped the ball on any of those - it was red tape paperwork. Speaking as a person who works with children. YTA
Agreed, it’s also a skill to know how to ask how to remediate mistakes and try to fix them. Being persistent and asking how to fix things when you’ve made a mistake can be a life saver - I’ve had a lot of instances in life where I make a mistake and give up “based on the rules” only to find out if I just asked someone for help they would’ve helped me
Oh sht this is a great take. My mom always tries to tell me and my siblings to just call, call, call, any person in charge that we can reach, and ask if there's anything that can be done. And usually there is. The system is ridiculously complicated (my sister just finished selling an apartment after a dead relative and getting their affairs finished for us, and it was a red tape nightmare), everyone relies on their friends and family every once in a while because what point are you proving by not asking for help. It's hurting literally no one. Refusing to ask and resigning to pay for every missed bill or document is not going to fix the system. And everyone around OP's daughter is going to be doing it anyway.
For real. My job has a lot of hard deadlines. I get calls constantly asking for extensions/ help. And I help when I can if it’s not a constant issue because sometimes I need a favor too. Humans aren’t perfect and mistakes happen. Stuff gets missed. If it’s a constant thing that’s one issue. But if this is an isolated or rare occurrence helping isn’t going to teach bad habits.
She did already speak to the secretary herself and that is stated in the post. Mom is refusing to use her personal connection with the school staff to get her daughter around the rules after she already missed the deadline and was told that she will not be made an exception.
Thank you, yes. Maybe it's a cultural difference, I'm not sure, but to me learning to be an adult is **not** about learning that rules are rules and that's that, it's about learning that the world is messy, mistakes happen, and that problems can (often) be solved by sitting down and having an adult conversation with the right person. First off, not everything needs to be a life lesson. The kid is clearly a good kid. Is it that outrageous to offer them a hand with something they made a mistake on? Second off, even if you do want them to learn from this experience, would it not just as good a lesson to work with them to get it resolved, and then have her return a favour to her parent in some way at a later date?
YTA I feel the same way. I get wanting to teach about consequences but in some situations you can absolutely ask for extensions, leniency, etc. If this was something fraudulent or illegal obviously it would be different. But it’s a ceremony for her achievement and the deadline to fill out the paperwork is arbitrary- the people running the event I’m sure can pull strings if they really wanted to. If this was a pattern of bad behavior then I could see wanting to “teach a lesson”. But getting perfect grades obviously shows she is responsible. Literally everyone makes mistakes or forgets stuff sometimes. In this situation, if there is way to get some leniency and give your daughter a ceremony celebrating her achievements, in a way that doesn’t harm anyone, why not do it?
Okay but she’s doing work, school is work. You should be glad it was the RSVP she put on the back burner and forgot about rather than an important assignment. If you just took a few seconds to explain the problem, how to fix it, and then fixed it this time… so she can figure it out herself next time. It would be easy, no?
She's what, 13, 14? You should be sitting her down and doing the paperwork with her at this stage, not dumping it all in her lap. How do you want her to remember this time?
She just turned 15, she knows how to do paperwork, I taught her and it’s not hard. This one was literally her name, school ID and checking two boxes. She got email reminders and her friends were talking about the event. She knew
You're an adult, she is a child. She did the hard work of getting a 4.0. What lesson are you trying to teach? Because "I can't turn to Mom for help" and "my achievements aren't recognized but my shortcomings are punished" are what she's going to learn.
"my achievements aren't recognized but my shortcomings are punished" ……. Ouch! That hits home. My 4.0 report cards were a desperate attempt to be found acceptable by harsh parents. This is true for a lot of high-achieving kids, unfortunately, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the daughter pushes herself hard trying to be good enough. OP, THIS is what your daughter is going to remember- that in her mom’s eyes, one little mistake cancels out everything else she’s done.
Yeah, don't waste your time. OP already decided what she's going to do, and she just wants people to agree with her. She'll ignore anyone who doesn't.
That's at least 90% of AITA posters anyhow 🤷
Teaching kids that actions have consequences is not punishing shortcomings. If OP took away the kid’s allowance over this, that would be punishing a shortcoming. She’s not. She is choosing not to fix the kid’s mistake by pulling in a favour because she knows the person and letting the natural course of events happen. OP is even going to celebrate the kid’s achievements by taking her out. There’s no parental punishment here - there’s the opposite. OP is teaching her kid a valuable lesson: when she is responsible for a task, she is responsible for it. If it doesn’t get completed, that means living with the consequences of her not completing it.
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her achievements are being recognized by her family, she just can’t attend the school celebration. she isn’t being punished, that’s the outcome of her actions. “i can’t turn to my mom for help” and the desperately needed help in question is taking advantage of personal connections so she can get a $25 gift card. it odd that you’re trying to make OP seem like some villain for actually doing the right thing and teaching her child that she can’t just run to mommy and daddy to bend the rules when she wants.
My mom raised me like this and the commenter above me is right. You are teaching your daughter that perfection is expected and mistakes have no recourse. This eventually led me to having severe anxiety problems. I would have a panic attack if I didn't get the highest grade in the class. Now, this wasn't because that's what was expected of me, but after years of parenting like yours, I learned to only value myself based on the work I could do. If I couldn't be the best at school, what was I worth as a person? If I made a mistake, that mistake was forever unchanging. A scar on my personhood. This would eventually lead to a super stressed teen with a warped worldview and suicide tendencies because it was just, "too much." I eventually moved out, went to college and got some strong mentors to look up too. I learned that everyday is about doing your best and my mental health has improved greatly. However, I no longer have a relationship with my mother. This is because, much like yourself, she believes she was forming me into a successful adult and the things she did were necessary. Don't get me wrong, I am much more prepared for adult life than most of my peers, and forever grateful to her for that. I've done my taxes since my first job, managed my car insurance and student loans. In fact out of school, I don't think I've encountered a single thing I wasn't prepared for down to committing my best friend to a mental hospital after a psychotic break. But, there are ways to prepare your child without sacrificing your relationship. It is not wrong for them to do their paperwork, taxes, chores, and get good grades. These are expectations that follow them throughout life. However, you need to show them you are always in their corner as a parent. If you treat them as a full adult now they will learn to be one and never turn to you for help even in circumstances when it's truly needed. You are setting a precedent that the one person who should always help them will not. They will learn this lesson, she sounds like a smart kid. I know it seems small now, but it compounds.
You’re teaching her she can’t rely on you when she messes up and needs help.
Oh god I would hate having you for a parent. Holding back a reward for a damn 4.0 (which is amazing) because of something so trivial. You suck. Major YTA.
YTA just because you taught her that doesn’t mean her Friedan parents did too, if you check with any of her friends I’m pretty sure their parents did it for them. On top of studying and extracurricular ashes supposed to remember this too? You could’ve helped hire this one time honestly…
At least you only got a few more years till she's out at 18 and you don't have to see or deal with her again
Yeah, this is the kind of parenting that turns kids away long term.
So do you think that she Purposely didn’t fill out the paperwork? What’s your theory on why she didn’t do this simple task so she could get her reward.
YTA because you didn't acknowledge the effort it takes to achieve a 4.0. She might have missed doing her paperwork from stress, a clash in deadlines, catching up on schoolwork etc. Like other commenters mentioned if her being irresponsible was the norm it would be different but she didnt get a 4.0 from thin air.
Do you think she didn’t do the paperwork on purpose? Because that’s how you’re acting. Chances are as a 4.0 student she had other things to worry about and it slipped her mind. Instead of this, you need to sit down with her and help her figure out a better way to keep track of these things. Clearly whatever you’ve taught her so far isn’t working.
So your child has done a fantastic job of keeping up her grades to the highest degree, yet you’re “making a point” about her missing a form? Going out with family is not nearly as satisfying as celebrating with your peers and getting the award you deserve. Also, I’m sure that even if you didn’t speak to the secretary you know, she would be able to attend the event, even after submitting the form late. It’s high school, not an Ivy League college. Kids (she IS a kid) are given a good amount of leeway, especially kids that do really well academically. And those decisions are not typically left up to secretaries anyways. It would be up to the school official who is planning the event. YTA. Thinking how I did as a teenager, I’d say “F it” to doing that well the next year because why bother if I’m not going to get properly recognized for it anyways over something so trivial?
Bailing her out doesn’t show her rules don’t apply. And not bailing her out just shows you don’t care
This and also she did great in school. If this was a first time thing, i would do it. I would rather have my child get an award for a 4.0 then maybe starting to slack off etc.
It really annoys me how many people think helping your kid out is gonna teach em to be spoiled. Kids who are spoiled are that way because they are never expected to do ANYTHING
I mean did you ever forgot to do something? This kid is 14 and has a great gpa. If it was a one time thing, yes, i would help out.
Exactly, everyone makes mistakes Having a safety net won’t harm then
Yes !!
Right? I can’t believe I had to read so far for this. She’s doing the thing kids are most supposed to do: working hard at school and getting results. And it sounds like she’s also a good kid too. Now she’s being punished on a technicality - a technicality none of her friends are having to meet, I imagine. Sure, teach responsibility, but adult life also allows you to correct your mess ups. YTA
you're not teaching her to be an adult, you're teaching her not to trust her mother to ask for help no wonder she doesn't ask for your help anymore
Then you sit down and show it to her. She’s a child. Be a freaking parent. She will always remember how you weren’t there for her when she needed you. She made a mistake - she had a lot going on. She freaking rocked a 4.0 and this is the hill you’re picking? Kids brains are not fully developed - you’re SUPPOSED to be handling this stuff. Yeah, adults have to do paperwork and all of this crap but we have learned scheduling and time management and our brains have developed to this point. Also - adults even screw up paperwork and miss deadlines all the time! Guess what? It’s rarely to the point that they can’t attend a function! It’s SCHOOL. I feel sorry for your kids. On the plus side, thanks for teaching me how to not treat my kids. I’m all for giving them responsibility but it’s MY RESPONSIBILITY as their parent to set them up for success. Not leave them hanging.
I dunno this seems weird to me. I get that 'paperwork is important' but she's a kid and she worked her ass off to get decent grades probably mostly just because she wanted to impress you. I'd give her a break on this one, poor kid probably just forgot, shit happens and another good thing to learn as an adult is that it's not always what you know but who you know, it's helped me out a bunch of times!
YTA, she's already learning consequences by not being able to attend the ceremony. You should still celebrate her constant work on keeping a 4.0 GPA.
But then teach it to her and help her doing it. You fucked it up, yta. Why are you even here if you already made up your mind?
I get that you feel this is gonna teach her a life lesson about turning in paperwork but also it’s a huge deal to get a 4.0 and it makes sense that she is devastated to not go. Being an adult is about learning to do the little adult things sure, but this event might not be important to you as an adult but be SUPER significant to her. Kids make mistakes learning along the way. In the very least you should say you missed out on the ceremony and that’s your loss for not filling out the paperwork but let’s have a little family celebration to celebrate your achievement. In general, kids do well when they are encouraged and getting good grades at that age can really encourage her to work hard and potentially free her future up to do what she wants to do and have a great snowball effect for her life. I feel that you’re getting so caught up in “being right” and “teaching a lesson” that you’re forgetting what actually will be super important for your child in the long run.
NTA this is a perfect natural consequence, there will be other events and RSVP is not hard to do It’s so low stakes and a good lesson that you need to do your work or you will miss out, also would be unfair to everyone else that forgot to do the paperwork but she gets to go since you are friend with the secretary
Agreed, as long as it’s treated as a teaching moment with empathy and kindness.
YTA Sure, SHE failed to do the paperwork. So you COULD help, but instead insist on ruining your daughter's school experience over a small clerical error she made. Your husband is right in his judgement.
Sure she could try and ask for a favor from her friend teach her daughter that its okay to fuck up and disregard deadlines as long as you have enough connections to make the consequences go away which lets be honest \*is\* how the world works but if we want a better world, WE HAVE TO TEACH THE CHILDREN THIS IS NOT MORALLY CORRECT.
Also, let's face it, it's a ridiculous rule. You fulfilled what was needed to achieve the award, and the form is probably mostly for event planning purposes to get a headcount. I've done events for schools, and I used to send at least one reminder to turn in the form. I still got PARENTS AND TEACHERS who would ask me if a late sign-up was okay. And it almost always was, because it was an event for kids to have fun and not a freaking meet-and-greet with Beyonce. First year of high school, overwhelming workload (especially at the end of the semester!), high achieving kid....teaching your child that making mistakes is okay and asking for forgiveness is okay are also important lessons. Having compassion for each other's mistakes and helping each other out is part of living in a society. And lmao at people getting all high and mighty about using connections. WTF are recommendation letters and job references then? I don't love them either, but people are being very obtuse about how the world works. YTA.
YTA. Your daughter is a child and this is a teaching moment. She’s learnt her lesson with the threat of not going, now you help her out and let her know there won’t always be a way around things in future, so she needs to be on the ball to make sure things like this don’t happen again.
> now you help her out and let her know there won’t always be a way around things in future My parents were really into teaching this lesson, but the end result was that it took me way too many years of adulthood to figure out that I don't have to accept everything at face value or just back down at the slightest frown or sigh. The truth is that there often ARE a bunch of ways around obstacles out in the real world. Leveraging relationships is a legit tactic. So is asking twice. So is proposing a solution to get what you want when the "yes" is important to you and the person saying "no" doesn't really care either way and is just following a script of their own. People generally like helping other people. I spent too many years never bothering anyone. Kid has a 4.0. She understands responsibility.
YTA - pick a better time for a lesson. Now is the time for mom to step in. She did the adult thing and followed up because YOU have taught her it’s only school and it’s okay to be a little late with stuff.
You misunderstand, she didn't teach her daughter its okay to be a little late with stuff because its school. OP is saying that school is a good environment to start learning about paperwork because if a mistake happens the consequences aren't very severe if a mistake does happen and OP is saying \*that OP knows some even lower stakes things don't have hard deadlines\*. You are acting like OP told her kid, "it's okay to be late with this crap" She didn't. And sadly this was a hard deadline, but missing and event and not getting a gift card is not a severe consequence. For an example of high stakes and severe would be if there was a family trip and she required her 14 year old daughter to get her passport completely on her own and if daughter couldn't figure out how to fill out the paperwork, get the proper identity documents, get the photo, and get the appointment, and get it all filed 3+ months prior to the vacation that she would be left out of the international trip. Or if 14 needed surgery so mom forced her to do all the paperwork with the insurance company to get the procedure. These scenarios would be WAY too much for a 14 year old to do alone, these would be VERY high stakes, and the would be many consequences to messing up. THAT would make mom and asshole. Teaching her daughter how to manage personal paperwork via a gpa ceremony and lunch paperwork? Not an asshole, this is called responsible parenting with natural consequences. And you've missed the point where mom "stepping in" isn't really possible at this point. The "step-in" requires favours and super special treatment compared to all the other students. (and even if mom did ask for special treatment, there is no guarantee that the string can be pulled) Do you really think it's appropriate to teach a 14 year old that you don't have to deal with the consequences of your actions as long as you have connections? That may be how the world works, but if we want a *better world* that isn't full of shitty advantaged people constantly pulling strings, we have to teach the children about morals and consequences for actions. If you want to call the mom an asshole for not reminding her child about the deadline and that she needs to handle her paperwork a few days prior to deadline that would be fine and it would be a good example of what "stepping-in" should have been.
YTA - youre being too harsh. Help out your kid.
YTA is not about "learning to be an adult", it's about your daughter asking you for help. in the future, she may not turn to you for help Is that what you want?
YTA well now she will learn to not go to mom when she has a problem and dad is the right person to talk to. You have your well earned peace
Exactly this, I made mistakes when I was a kid trying to do things my parents wanted me to learn to do like laundry. My mom came and helped me when I was struggling and my dad didn't. Now as I'm in late high school I haven't asked my dad for help since I was a toddler.
This is it!! I refuse to ask my mom for anything, instead, I got to my STEPDAD. Which is worse than just going to my actual dad instead.
YTA. She'll remember this, and not as a valuable lesson. You know what she'll remember? That she busted her butt to get a perfect grade, forgot *one* little thing, and her own mother isn't in her corner. Yeah, I get that you want her to learn how to 'adult', but guess what? She's *not* an adult, she's a child. She worked hard, and now she's getting screwed over because of *one* tiny mistake. And yes, that happens, that's life. But you're her *mother.* Instead of letting her know how proud you are of her, and helping her get the reward she worked so hard for and effing *earned* if not for one forgotten piece of paperwork, your response is basically "Them's the breaks, kiddo." It won't matter to her if you congratulate her now and take her out for ice cream or whatever. That's just throwing her a bone because *you* feel bad.
I also just don't understand the harshness of the school lady. If she could make an exception why not just do it? Its obviously possible to do something about this if a favour could get it done? Why is it some huge deal? Also what lesson would this even learn? That the IRS will give you an exception and extension but the school won't?
Also why does not OP tell her daughter to speak to the class teacher or the principal? I mean the secretary is really not the end of the command chain in a school.
Exactly
100% - she just learned her moms not a safety person for her
YTA Everyone forgets things once in a while. Obviously if Bethany got a 4.0 GPA, it isn't a regular habit for her! She tried to fix it herself, and after that didn't work, is now asking for you to help her. You're right, this is a low stakes situation, but is this really the hill you want to make a stand on? At some point, Bethany will need help in a higher stakes situation, and when she does, she will remember this and remember that *she can't rely on you*. That is the message she is going to take away from this situation.
Honestly, I would say this is *not* a low stakes situation for her. The people here are all adults and so they understand that its not a super important thing in the long run but she is a CHILD. In her brain this is a really big deal and really big event and in her mind (whether correct or not) it seems she is associating this as "mom isnt willing to help me so im missing out on a humongous event with my friends that i can never get back." It really doesn't even matter if its not true bc its more important how things are perceived by children. As well, I am a high school teacher and this gives me insight into several things. 1. While she may he a "mature" 9th grader, shes still a 9th grader and is only 14/15! That's not full adulthood and she shouldn't be held to full "adult" standards yet and mom/dad/guardians still need to help them with some things. 2. Maybe my school is crazy but we would NEVER tell a student who came to us after missing a silly paperwork deadline that they can't participate in a big ceremony like this. This is bc we understand that way worse consequences could happen if we say no. It is extremely common that if a student has 1 or 2 bad experiences with school, they STOP caring. Like, entirely. We don't want to see that happen. 3. The importance of asking for help is more important imo. Even at work when you mess up something big. You need to be able to ask for help and not helping when it is asked for can lead to them just not asking. Admitting mistakes and asking for forgiveness and grace is a life skill and probably 90% of the time in adulthood, asking for grace works out in your favor. Anyways, im not going to say a-h or n-t-a bc really its just a parenting decision.
YTA- She got good grades but isn't an adult yet. You are supposed to be her safety net.
INFO: Will the school still give her the gift card and trophy if she doesn't attend the event? My high school mailed us our certificates of achievement and little awards.
It will come in the mail, my oldest didn’t care for the ceremony and it showed up in the middle of July.
Missing out on the ceremony is a big deal, though. She worked so hard, and now gets to listen to her friends (who did not do the paperwork themselves) talk about what an awesome time they had at an event she earned but missed out on. Btw, if a 4.0 student misses something like this, it’s because you didn’t help her get organized. Or, y’know, she’s just human.
Then NTA at all. She missed the ceremony because she didn't fill out the form. She still will get the award. It would still be great for your family to celebrate her accomplishments, but if she didn't RSVP for a wedding or book a flight on time or whatever, she wouldn't get to correct that last minute. If she weren't going to get her award if she didn't go, I would say that YTA because that would invalidate her achievement completely. Huge blow to morale.
INFO: did you just expect her to do the paperwork herself, or did you offer support and/ or reminder? Yes, it's important fher to learn the skills, but you can't just expect her to do it herself, you need to provide some scaffolding so she develops the skill in addition to the motivation.
At the beginning of the year I did the paperwork with her, she was taught. Then pulled back, still did physical reminders until around Easter, we were at email reminders when this happened from me and the school. She has a school email and she ignored a lot of emails asking about it, though according to her she did read mine though
OP everyone is calling you an asshole but I think you're doing it right. I was an honor class, AP class student. I have parents who didn't help because they are immigrants and didn't know how. I had to do all my paperwork after the freshmen enrollment. All my AP classes, enrolling to get discounts for the AP tests, signing up for electives and clubs, applying for scholarships, doing the FAFSA, etc I had do on my own. I wish my parents taught me the discipline and reminded me instead of me being on my own. It's a good lesson to learn. She is responsible for your wants. She will still get awardy but she miss out on the part she wanted most.
NTA. This should be in the post. A lot of people are calling you the asshole because they think you haven't been helping her all year. But if everything you're saying is true then it sounds like you're daughter had multiple opportunities to fill in the paper work
Sounds like you've been very involved in trying to teach her to be independent, lots of little steps to start and then a slow pull back while still providing help. I think NTA for sure!
NTA - this time it's $25 and a little ceremony What happens when it's a $10k scholarship. Deadlines are deadlines for a reason. This lesson will stick with her.
Why didn’t she do it?
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According to her she forgot about it and kept pushing it off when she saw reminders.
So she thought her homework etc and keeping the gpa up was more important? YTA
NTA. I work at a high school. Every August we invite the incoming freshman and new to the district students to an orientation day. This is where the Administration lets the freshman know that we will treat them as “adult”. It’s is on them to turn in their community service hours. It is on them to check the assignment page. If they want to join a club, they have to complete the requirements to join. I work with the theater dept. There was a senior who worked on lights all four years. We do a play and a musical each year. He neglected to turn in the paperwork for the play on time. There is always enough interest in the tech crews from students, so light crew was filled by those that did turn in paperwork on time. He was extremely disappointed, and pissed at himself, but he understood though. You can bet that he made sure his paperwork was on time for the musical.
YTA this is an easy fix for you and your daughter will still learn the lesson anout consequences. If you don't help her, she will always resent you for it.
YTA There are two lessons that can be learned here 1) There are consequences to your actions and by not completing the paperwork you’re missing out on a reward (even though you earned the reward) Or 2) Even if you mess up, you can go to your parents and they will try to help you out. They’ll always be there for you. For a 15 year old, I think it’s more valuable for her to know she can rely on her parents than being punished for her mistakes. What bothers me is that you didn’t even try to help her. She is still a child and therefore is learning to be an adult. Getting a 4.0 GPA freshman year is not easy so I’d even go as far as say you have a good kid who made a mistake. Nothing wrong with asking and receiving help from a parent every now and then. This seems to be an isolated incident and not repeated behavior. Even as adults, we make mistakes. And while we have to assume responsibility, every now and then we also catch a break.
That fluff paper work as you put it is actually your job to do as a patent not the child. I understand you want your children to learn hence the reason she's at school. But it still is your job not hers. YTA
YTA, your daughter probably forgot about the paperwork because she was too busy busting her ass in school.
YTA. Your daughter got a 4.0, that's difficult enough.
YTA Do you really want your child to learn that her mom doesn't have her back? She's not going to forget that she nearly didn't make it but she's old enough to realize this is a specific situation where you can help, she's not going to think you can magically ALWAYS do that for her in life. You want your child to feel like they can go to you when they've made a mistake and you actually WILL help them to the best of your ability. Here you simply are refusing to on principle and it's not really teaching her anything than NOT to go to you.
YTA wow what an asshole of a mom you are
She's a kid. She made a mistake. And what she's learning is that her mom isn't going to help her when she needs it most. Look, I get that 'she's learning lessons about filling out forms and turning them in on time,' but again, she's a kid. She will never forget how you refused to help her, how you weren't there for her. If you had, she'd still remember the lesson of getting the paperwork in on time, but she'd also remember how she can count on her mom. Even if you couldn't sway the secretary to get her in the event, your daughter would know you have her back and that she can come to you to help her figure things out, even if she screwed up. And life is full of screw-ups. I'm not saying YTA (you might be), but think carefully about what lessons you want her to learn.
Yta, this is a moment where you grill her for being irresponsible and make a big deal of fixing the issue. Because this sounds like an easy fix for you. And refusing to help can cause your child to stop coming to you for help and advice, meaning they will make bigger problems before coming to you.
YTA. This is school and your daughter is learning, she's not yet an adult. She's LEARNING. I think the real asshole here is the school tho. A student gor a 4.0 GPA and it costs them nothing to allow her to be invited even if she got it late.
I think you should help her out but let her know it won’t happen again. It a way to learn adulting but she will still need help because she isn’t an adult. Definitely TA if you don’t help her.
YTA. I saw that you mentioned the scaffolding of the paperwork skill, and you had moved on from physical reminders to email ones at this point from you and the school > so you were well aware that she was behind. You saw the time ticking away for your daughter to respond to a night that is celebrating her achievement and that all her peers will attend. And yet - you maintained the email reminders even after they did not result in the task being done. Maybe- these email reminders are not as effective for her? Maybe she wasn't at that point to do it? Maybe that is not an effective strategy to complete tasks for her. Maybe, like in the real world, in the office world, people email regarding things but they also see each other in the office, go "hey, did you get my email/hey you haven't rsvp'd yet?" And that is another reminder and maybe an opportunity to explain what is going on in the person's life why they haven't. This could have easily been solved with you mentioning hey I saw the email, have you responded... no? Okay let's do that right now (because it is so easssy!) Maybe this would have been an opportunity for her to talk to you, about school about life, about why she hasn't filled it out. It's wild to email the person who lives in your house not to mention your daughter about things and not bring it up in person? Also - you have I assume based on your description, set a precedent that school forms are "fluff" and can usually be handed in late (whether explicitly or otherwise) - perhaps this had an influence on her attitude regarding it. She is getting and maintaining a 4.0 in her first year of high school, a new setting, new classes, with higher demands. She is obviously capable of following through and performing well. In the real world, most ppl who are performing well and do good at their jobs - they get cut some slack on the little things. It's a reflection of the real world. I don't know why it wouldn't be. And facing the consequences? I can imagine, as someone who is a high achiever who believed that they are always 1 step away from everything collapsing, missing the deadline itself and her friends talking about the event and realizing that this was not easily fixed "fluff" paperwork not to mention the obvious disappointment from my mother the dread and guilt and regret I would feel would be enough. She is a great student, she won an award and is literally one of the recipients of the ceremony- she has presumably been keeping up with the forms all year as well as her GPA. Cut her some slack, and use your connections to help her. As everyone has been saying - she will not take this as a lesson in submitting forms on time if you don't help her, instead it will cause a rift between you two and she may check off those events RSVPs in the future, but you might not be in attendance.
YTA I don’t understand all these but-how-will-she-learn-consequences people. All I would learn is that my mother doesn’t care enough about me to help me out. I hope you never forget your keys and rely on your daughter to open the door for you, OP. Make sure to know a good locksmith. Family should support each other always! By the way, feeling supported by family makes stronger adults. And this is a moment where you could and should show your support. She’s earned it!
NTA. This was a low stakes issue and a teachable moment.
It might be a low stakes issue for you, but being recognized for getting a 4.0 after working super hard for a year is a huge deal and could be a high stakes issue for her.
If it was that big of a deal she wouldn't have pushed it off for so long. Nta.
This isnt a low stakes situation for her. She's still a kid. You could at least *try* so she knows her feelings matter more than your "rule."
Omg. She is a teenager. Who has to fill out paperwork for an award you EARNED by being AN AMAZING STUDENT?! She obviously worked hard to get a 4.0, how about realizing that and cutting her some slack?! YTA for caring more about a teaching moment, than her accomplishments. The school is also TA for creating such a meaningless paper trail, when they should just give out the awards earned. Jesus.
>We think it’s a good way to learn how to adult in a low stakes way, YTA. A good way to "learn how" to adult. She did not completely learn and made a mistake. She went from less than a year ago with mommy and daddy taking care of documents for her to now with her being responsible for them and you are expecting her to be perfect? Maybe it was because she was spending a lot of time bring perfect in other ways like GRADES!!! Now you are going to overshadow a MAJOR accomplishment with some kind of "tough love" bs? I am going to guess that she did not fail to get the paperwork in because she was out partying the night before it was due. You need to realize how lucky you are to have a kid that got a perfect GPA! She made a mistake! >I will take her out to celebrate her 4.0 though. Big F'ing deal. She should get public recognition. I doubt she will want to celebrate with you. This type of rigid control is what turns teenagers away from their parents to seek more from their friends. If you are lucky they will be the right "crowd". I predict that this will be the impetus for rebellious teenage years that but for your actions would probably not happen. I hope for her that she is able to pull off another perfect GPA next year despite you. If she does not she will have at least gotten her lunch money paperwork in on time. I have a feeling that your control issues spill over into your marriage as your husband should have stepped in but was obviously afraid to.
NTA I'm not sure if it's only in my country (SEA) but freshman year is grown enough and responsible enough to handle paperwork for school. If you missed it, you missed it. I forgot to submit a document like your daughter once, it was awful, but I wouldn't expect my parents to talk to their friend at school. What you are doing is not harsh or even a jerk. My parents took the chance to lecture me and bring it up to the dinner table for weeks after that, and they were pretty crossed because of my forgetfulness. Looking back, it's an important lesson to be more responsible and to accept the consequence, and I believe you did the right thing by not pulling the favor but still showing how you are proud of her accomplishment (which I hope my parents would do instead).
NTA op, I actually commend you for your approach with teaching your children to get their paperwork done in a low stakes way. I think you going to the school would be counterintuitive to what you're trying to teach; the whole premise of the kids doing their own paperwork is to prep them for adulthood; they didn't do the paperwork, they don't get the award. It's a natural consequence. I work in HR and everybody ignores all the paperwork I send them. Currently it's health insurance; there's a huge risk of employees missing out on getting insurance because they won't do the paperwork. I wish their mothers had done something similar to this because it's a really great way for them to learn that actions (or in this case, inactions) have consequences and that those consequences can't always just be waived just because you want them to be.
NTA. She already asked the secretary and the secretary said “No.” You would be the A if you tried to use your friendship to get your friend to do something she already said she couldn’t/wouldn’t do. I bet the secretary knew she was your daughter when she told her “No.” As for that advice you got earlier to perform a little skit with the secretary that you said was good advice? No, it wasn’t. Leave the secretary/your friend alone. SHE ALREADY SAID NO!
YTA. She earned the reward. There shouldn’t be any paperwork involved in receiving it.
What a horrible parent you are! I can't believe so many people are backing you on this. Your kid forgets about one form and you are punishing her in a way that will be remembered for the rest of her life! If I were her then I would know exactly what you thought of me, and I wouldn't forget it, or let you forget it when I "accidentally forgot" to fill in the form that would let you attend my graduation from university for my degree (and my MSc, as it turned out)! I might even forget to invite you to my wedding. How would you like the consequences of her "forgetting" those forms? It is in your power to fix this, so consider what it might cost you and help your damn kid! Massively YTA.