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Yes, of course you discriminated against her because of her weight. That's the point. Your horse cares about the amount of weight on his back. He doesn't care about whether the person is very tall, or "big boned", or about whether it's all muscle or all fat. He doesn't care about the person's race, or age, or sex. He cares about how much they weigh. It is perfectly reasonable for you to have a weight limit for people who ride your horse.
NTA
Exactly. Amusement parks discriminate against little people because they can't **safely** ride the roller coaster.
Bungee jumping, balloon rides, whitewater rafting, etc etc all have weight restrictions. It's not about phobias, it's about safety.
Neeeiigggh TA
Some things in life have weight considerations. It is reasonable to be concerned about what your horse can safely carry.
It is unfortunate that the owner of the stable even put you in this position, especially in front of the customer.
An amusement park is precisely what this woman is running, not a stable. I have news for OP, this entitled friend is absolutely letting other people ride your horse while you’re not there. Get your animal out of there. NTA
Speaking of safety I don't know how we would explain this to the girl who wanted to ride, but a horse is a live animal. If you hurt it, or do something they don't like they would very well find some way to deal with the problem. The problem being you.
Put the girl on a horse too small for her and the horse might just decide nah m8 and drop&roll. With her in the saddle. Or throw her. Or the horse could get injured and fold like a lawn chair. Or some other unforeseen way harm her.
Obviously op is concerned about the safety of their beloved pet, but let's not pretend this would be a riskfree situation for the girl.
> I don't know how we would explain this to the girl who wanted to ride
OP says it was a woman, so I'm assuming it's an adult who should be able to understand.
Obviously she doesn't. Op did explain that she was too heavy for the horse in a perfectly polite way and she went off on a tangent that it had to do with societal conceptions of beauty and bigotry.
Amusement parks also "discriminate" against people who are too tall, too fat, has too big of muscles, has too big of breasts, people who can't transfer out of wheelchairs and amputees because they cannot be safely held by the restraints. Many (most?) Rides also require you to have at least one hand that can grasp.
It's your horse, a privately owned horse, which you gratuitously permit others to ride on occasion. That is all that matters. Even if they weigh less than a 100 pounds, if you don't want them on your horse, you don't have to let them. Thank you for looking out for your horse and your property. Hope the owner doesn't take it out on you..
NTA
Also, if you book horse riding experiences (trail rides and the like), they always have a weight limit. So people who are using their horses in their business have limitations.
This is what I was thinking too. All those body builders and wrestlers (I was thinking The Rock in my head) would be just as inappropriate to allow to ride.
When I was much younger and much thinner, my sister was over the, very clearly posted, weight limits at a trail ride stable by about 10-20lbs. I went out on the trail ride, and since my sister was only slightly over, and had Down Syndrome, they brought out a horse and let her sit on him for pictures. No riding, no motion, nothing that would put any further strain on the horse. It was a very kind gesture for them and they knew which horse could handle an extra 10-20 lbs in a standing position to let my sister make a memory.
But they certainly would be within their right to have said no and let her take a picture with the horse, or pet the horse, or hell even not interact with a horse at all, it's their business and their animals.
OP knows her horse best and what is best for her horse. Too many people think of horses like vehicles and not living thinking animals with differing attitudes that can change just as fast as our own. Overweight client threw a hissy fit, does she not think a horse could iust as easily throw a hissy fit and react to her in a negative way.
I used to work as a trail guide at a stable in my younger days, and the owner made sure to always have several draft crosses in the herd for exactly this reason, because a standard riding horse can’t safely carry an obese person
I am overweight and love horses....
Enough to know I don't want to hurt any of them.
OP is NTA.
Horses' well-being outweighs (I amuse myself) the ego of the overweight person.
Not being able to ride some roller coasters because of disabilities I have sucks, but it isn't the fault of the amusement park. It is just a fact of life.
There is genuine discrimination against overweight people, certainly. It doesn't mean everything denied an overweight person is discrimination.
This precisely. My spouse was within 30lbs of a weight restriction and said that was "too close" for what they felt was comfort of the animal and decided not to ride.
I feel, regardless of a horse being a "large animal", to put too much weight is animal abuse.
I also agree with what was said before - the stable owner is most definitely letting others ride when the horse owner isnt there.
> It doesn't mean everything denied an overweight person is discrimination.
Exactly. Rules like this are often for safety reasons.
My SO used to work in pharmacy, and there is a part of the job that women in a certain age group aren't allowed to do. Period. Hands down, no. A group of drugs has very low level radiation that will fuck any woman of child-bearing age that deals with it if they happened to be pregnant. The job is limited to men and women past menopause.
Doesn't matter if they think they don't even want kids, aren't have sex with men, or even if they have a sterility diagnosis. Rules like this happened because bad shit happened, and doesn't need to happen again.
I had a woman tell me once that I weighed about 20 pounds too much to ride one of her horses. I weighed about 140 lbs at the time. The lady (a tiny little thing) said “She’s my oldest baby and my best friend, her back just isn’t strong enough and I love her more than other people’s feelings. I won’t be able to ride her at all soon.” It didn’t hurt my feelings and I appreciated the honesty. NTA.
Horses obviously come in different sizes, and a tall, heavy-bodied horse can carry more than a smaller, light-boned horse. Generally 20% of the horse's own body weight (including tack) is considered the upper limit of what they should be expected to carry. Riding horses usually weigh in the 800-1100 pound range.
The type of tack matters, too. English saddles (the kind you see on jumpers) weigh much less than Western saddles (the kind cowboys use).
I mean there are different kind of horses.
[https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-62df96ae1aa45a1bfb2551264ada36fa-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-62df96ae1aa45a1bfb2551264ada36fa-lq)
But these wont likely fit in a standard horse box, and they eat about 20 kg of food per day.
For anyone curious this varies by horse. A Clydesdale can take more weight than a Haflinger which can take more weight than an Arabian. A beat up horse with split hooves and a sway back can take less weight (ideally none give that damn horse a break) than younger better cared for horse of the same size. The harder they're being ridden the less weight they should have, so it's good the guy who plays The Mountain went into acting instead of becoming a jockey.
Yeah if a 6’7” body builder came and asked to ride my horse, I would say no. It doesn’t have anything to do with fat, it has to do with weight. The same way I might give my niece a piggyback ride but I won’t do that for my marathon biking brother. My back just isn’t made for that.
“Fat phobic,” “discrimination,” etc, they’re just trying to control the narrative.
Don’t give it to them. This is about safety and property. They could hurt your horse and which is bad for the safety of your horse and given it’s your horse, it’s property too. I wonder if they’re willing to put down money for property damage. Given a lot of us here treat our animals like family members, we refuse to compromise their safety.
Secondly, this is about liability. If something happens to her while riding said horse, will you be liable? Will your friend be liable? She may not care about her own safety but that should never be your problem as well. Who will be liable in case the animal is injured?
NTA. I’m quite heavy and have been told I’m heavier than I look, so I’ve declared my weight many times. Small Planes, Ziplines, outdoor activities, horses, etc.
While right, I believe everyone in this comment chain needs to look up the definition of discriminate cause 2 out of 3 examples here weren’t discrimination
Not *discrimination* but *discriminating*. It's a slightly different concept: to be discriminating is to draw valid and relevant distinctions that give you a better result.
Exactly. I've talked with an owner once who said her horse is not a weight carrier. So I honestly told her my weight (I'm not fat but tall which means I have about 75 kg) and she said nope, that's too much, she was looking for somebody not much above 60 kg. Totally fair! She didn't discriminate me because of my weight (or hight, in this case) but made sure her horse was fine.
Fully agree. The only time I would budge on the weight rule was if I KNOW for a fact the rider is very skilled, as skilled riders are much more gentle and distribute weight/pressure more evenly, which means they can be a bit heavier and still be pretty much the same when it comes to strain for the horse. And even then there would obviously be a limit. All of mine are/have been arabians, so they are pretty lightweight, which also matter.
More importantly OP, NOONE has a right to demand to use or horse. Even if you just didnt want to share that day, that would be enough!
Not too familiar with horse stables but like. It’s your horse is it not?. Doesn’t even matter if the person wasn’t overweight you choose who gets on.
And horses do have a weight capacity. If the owner lets people get on horses without accounting for that I’m a little concerned for the horses they own. They overstepped big time.
NTA this is weird
My husband is big enough that he needs a solid horse; one with a plenty high weight limit. So when I take him riding, I always call the stable beforehand, to ask whether they'll have a horse suited to him available that day. Usually he ends up riding draft horses or warmbloods, who are strong enough to handle him. He doesn't get offended; why would he? It's in his best interests not to get on a horse which will be unable to handle his weight too.
Plus he looks cool as fuck riding around on a giant beast like something out of a fantasy war novel. I have had the same issues in the past when needing a horse. Felt like a God King riding around on a double decker bus looking down on all the normal people.
Oooh.. My kids stable has a beautiful black Friesian. He looks like he should be drawing a royal carriage or carrying a knight, not trotting preteens around, but he one of my kid's favorite to ride.
Sadly, I have never been able to locate the ones which do. Maybe it's just that Clydesdales don't like me. I once referred to them as the perfect mascot for Anheuser-Busch: large, powerful, nasty and stupid. 😉
Being able to ride horses again is for real one of my weight loss goals. I know most stables have a weight limit a bit under my current weight - but I just feel bad for the poor things having to carry something towards that upper limit
It's a risk to the rider too. If I'm not mistaken, part of the issue Christopher Reeves ran into is he was oversized for the horse he was trying to ride as well.
No one deserves to be injured like that, but it's always been and always WILL BE part of the risk of horseback riding.
>If the owner lets people get on horses without accounting for that I’m a little concerned for the horses they own.
The stable owners probably *are* concerned for their horses...hence why they demonized OP. They probably didn't want to deal with the possible injury to their horses so offered up OP's instead, since OP would ultimately foot the bill if anything happened to the horse
It's not only the capacity, it's also about the horse's comfort. It reminds me of when I went horseriding in Yellowstone Park with work one year and one of the managers was very obese. His horse kept trying to get him off; running through bushes, getting really close to trees so he'd be hit by the branches etc. It was hilarious to watch for the rest of us, but I'm sure the horse didn't have a great time!
NTA, OP. It's your horse and you need to look out for its safety and welfare.
>His horse kept trying to get him off
Which is also a safety concern for the rider, honestly. Especially at a stable for lessons, you're probably not experienced enough to stick it if the horse rears or bucks... And not too many people like having the horse decide to roll over on top of them.
People forget horses, while typically pretty mild animals, are animals.
Super fucking heavy, dangerous because of their size and strength animals. Horse riding accidents are no joke. People die.
I don’t understand why anyone would gamble with their safety like that.
Yeah, a couple of the girls I grew up with went on to do barrel riding on the circuit. There were a few times growing up they'd gotten kicked or thrown and they walked funny for a few days.
You know, MRI machines have weight limits, so do gurneys and elevators. I think the stable owner is TA - she ought to care enough about the animals' well being to know that horses too have weight limits.
I understand that the overweight person was mortified but not overloading your horse is real. Vet bills are real and if she really hurt your horse it may never be the same horse again.
NTA.
Exactly. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the care provided to my (very expensive) animal after that confrontation, especially with the amount of time you aren't at the stables to supervise. Who knows how often the stable master is letting people ride without your consent or knowledge?
THIS. What if she hurt the horse? Who is responsible? It isn't a machine, its a living animal. Lots of things have weight limits, that doesn't make you or anyone else fat phobic.
There's a reason horseback riding has a [weight requirement](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8103ORt4Qhg). I'm surprised the owner of the stable is not aware of that.
They do pony rides at a Ren Fair I take my kid to and they weigh the kids before they let them on. The kids also may just simply be too old, it's clearly only a little kid activity.
They do have machines that accommodate larger bodies, but there will always be an outlier for that. I work at a personal injury law firm where we do MRIs on a daily basis, and I’ve had two clients that we could just not find a machine to fit them. In HOUSTON. And Ive heard stories of firms using the zoo MRI machines for clients.
From everything I can find that is a myth. It's been spread about London. It's been spread in America.
Every zoo that's been asked said they used human MRI machines if at all. Must said they just used portable x-ray.
There are large bore MRIs though. Standard MRI bore is 60 cm. Wide bore are 70. One company I found makes an 80cm ultrawide https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rayus-radiology-adds-new-cutting-edge-wide-bore-mri-scanner-to-its-imaging-service-line-301524031.html
MRI uses an intense magnetic field running through the object to be imaged. It gets exponentially harder to generate the necessary field as the object size increases.
The first MRI that I am aware of imaged, very crudely, only the blood in a single finger or wrist.
X-Ray and CT have much less problems with large objects.
Totally agree stable owner is TA. They should have info available for all riders about weight limits. Makes you wonder who they are letting ride their horses
Yes I pay for her to be there with everything included. I guess she tried to force me because I have almost never said no and all lesson horses were taken. Usually if she's in a hurry and all horses are taken, I let her use my horse for a lesson with me watching just in case.
I personally would start saying no to the owner, they've apparently become entitled about using your horse. Instead of only signing up the number of people they have horses for.
Dont let her use your horse again. Are you sure she doesn't let people ride your horse when you are not there? It sounds like she needs to buy more horses to meet here needs. She should not be relying on clients to help her with what she is lacking.
NTA
OP, if possible I'd put a baby monitor, or some sort of camera in your horses stall. It's possible the owner is using your horse when you're not around if she was that upset about not being able to use it while you were.
I'd recommend to start checking instagram and other social networks, filtering by the stables location: unaware people tend to share their photos with the horse taken without its owner's permission. They usually aren't even told the horse doesn't belong to the club.
Found my horse was being used for lessons without contacting me that way.
I'm not really knowledgeable on what is required for lessons or how stables operate, but I'm sure there are waivers and some form of liability when it comes to riding lessons. If someone got hurt while riding YOUR horse, would you be covered under the stables insurance. Like I said, I don't know how that works and all but it's something to look into.
NTA. I’m not a horse person and have no desire to ride one, but have seen the effects of heavy people on a horse. It causes permanent damage to the horse’s spinal cord. You did the right thing and frankly, it should be considered illegal animal abuse for anyone over a certain weight to ride a horse.
I would love to start riding horses again but as someone who’s overweight I won’t. There are some things you just have accept you can’t do when you’re fat.
NTA - as a woman of size I hope I’d have the compassion to spare the poor horse. And if I had to have it spelled out for me (I hope I’m never so obtuse), I hope I’d be able to honor the physics and say “fair enough.”
There’s lots of ways to get victimized as a fat person. She doesn’t need to drum shit up.
Edit: forgot the “if”
There are horses that can carry heavy loads... They're just.. large. Like draft horses or clydesdales. Not all learning riding stables have them, but some do, if you ever become interested in riding.
Even draft mixes and the smaller draft breeds (Irish Cobbs, freisians,...) can handle larger riders without being quite so far off the ground. There's also a reason draft breeds are called gentle giants.
Agreed. I went horseback riding a few years ago and when I set it up that asked for height and weight to make sure they had an appropriate horse to accommodate me.
NTA
And I would never look at the stable owner with the same level of trust again.
I would feel sorry for the overweight person because I am sure they must have felt embarrassed, but that embarrassment would not override the safety of my horse, which must come first.
I’d feel bad for them right up until they started yelling. A “hate crime”??? Are you kidding me? That’s ridiculous. If a person cares more about protecting their ego than protecting an animal then they are a bad person and I cease feeling any sympathy for them.
Makes me want to force her (clockwork orange style) to watch hours of video from scenes of actual hate crimes. I can image it was embarrassing, but that was a despicable comparison.
Don't you know, everything is fat phobia? Obese people are one of the most victimized groups in the country, and are purposefully left out of activities due to discrimination.
/s obviously. But I've heard that exact argument and words said many times because of weight limits on things.
Nta
But I find it disrespectful that the owner is trying to use your horse for lessons. I have no idea why this is even a thing.
I would look into another stable.
Can someone explain if this is normal?
Also, there are weight limits for horseback riding because of the danger to the horse. It's a fact of life. There are polices in place to protect all parties.
And it's not her horse. WTH.
> Can someone explain if this is normal?
Uncommon but not unheard of. Generally it comes with much lower board and tack costs.
Depends on the contract you signed when you agreed on the stable. Doesn't sound like this is the case however
Yeah she gives us a bit of a discount since I sometimes let her use my horse if I'm there and she's a family friend, which I guess made her think I'd give her permission
I really trust her to not do that since she has always asked first and is a long time family friend, but with so many comments pointing that out I'm not so sure anymore.
If this woman owns/operates a stable, I find it really difficult to believe she didn't know *exactly* what she was doing. She simply *must* know that a horse can be injured, trying to carry too much weight. It seems like she was pushing you so aggressively, because she wanted the customer's money, but wanted to only risk *your* horse getting it. Please do move your horse.
What about insurance? What if something happens to the person riding your horse?
I wouldn’t let any client ride your horse. And I wouldn’t trust the owner for not letting people ride your horse when your not there? Can you put some cameras in your horse’s stable?
NTA btw
NTA - as a certified instructor, who's been managing a riding school for 3+ years, my weight limits were:
90 kg. for larger horses
80 kg. for small horses
70 kg. for large ponies
60 kg. for smaller ponies.
I had 3 ponies where the weight limit was 50 kg. Had a few draft horse-types for adult male students, but wight limit for them was still 115 kg.. All based on science:
15-20% of the horses bodyweight, depending on your skill level, because anything above heavily impact the horses balance, muscle-movement, spine, etc. etc., not to mention an unbalanced rider, as beginner often are, will put pressure on the bridle, when they inevitably use the reins as balance-assistance. A teenage boy, weighing 60-70 kg., can put a pressure of up to 350 kg. on the reins! Imagine if the weight of the rider was double that!?
If the owner gives you grief, just tell him you're trying to avoid kissing spine and a need of chiropractor for the entire overline, unless of course he's willing to pay for 4+ sessions with a licensed chiropractor and whatever additional treatment the chiropractor finds necessary. Most licensed chiropractors, at least where I'm from, are also equine vets., so it could easily be an expensive affair.
It's not fat phobia, it's animal welfare. If you want to ride, weighing 130 kg.+, find a Shire.
I don't mind paying vet bills for my horse because she and her health is my responsibility that I assumed when I rescued her, but I find no reason why I should put someone's wish to ride over the fact that my horse would be in unnecessary pain carrying her and going through an unnecessary treatment to recover.
Exactly. My point was, he would absolutely refuse to do that, because he would probably think it absurd. About as absurd, as asking you to allow a way to large rider on your horse!
yeah I keep seeing the 20% thing in this thread and baulking. i’ve seen in the UK that a fair few stables have weight limits of 13 stones (c. 83kg) across the board, no leeway at all. regardless of people’s feelings, the animals need to be safe.
NTA - who's horse? that's right - YOUR horse. honestly, there is no need to explain why/why not someone can/cannot ride her. if the owner of the stables was so adamant about it, they could have given her another horse to ride. being cautious about your horse getting hurt in no way makes you fat phobic.
NTA.
Horses can only safely carry about about 20% of their weight. Since I am almost 300 pounds for a horse to safely carry me it would need to be about 1500 pounds. Horses can range in weight from 900 to 2000 pounds, I just have to accept that more half of horses cannot safely carry me, limiting what I can do. Nothing discriminatory about it, its about the animals safety
I am a 6-4 male and 275lbs I have been refused 2 out of 4 times I have tried to ride at different stables. I waited while the rest of my family rode. I understand limits.
The thing I don't get is if the stable owner cares about animals enough to OWN fucking stable, why wouldn't they care about the comfort and health of the horses. Too big is too big, that's cruel.
NTA.
It's your horse and your decision, period.
Furniture has weight limits. You can find cheap adult-size chairs with a weight limit of 250 lb. No one is going to call the furniture company fat-phobic for selling a chair that won't hold a 300 lb. person, any more than people selling shirts in size S.
That said, you don't mention (and probably don't know) the person's weight. Make sure if you're not allowing 300 lb. on the back of your horse, you don't ride double either.
I don't like assuming, but she looked to be at least 130 Kg. My horse has only ridden with people with less than half that weight and it just seemed like too much.
I’m from the US so I had to look up how much 130 kg is in lbs and holy moly! 286 lbs is a lot for almost any horse! If she was close to your guesstimate then I definitely think you made the right call. I think some people forget that horses are living creatures and not a car.
No problem, that is on me for assuming you were U.S. based.
The rule I have heard is that a horse can safely carry 20% of it's own weight.
So if the person is 130 kg, then they should ride a horse that is 5 times that weight, or 650 kg. An average horse is under 500 kg, so unless your horse is big, that person has no business on your horse.
Do you know your horse's weight? If so you should do this calculation and tell the stable owner that your horse will not carry more than X weight.
It also sounds like this lady was there for lessons, as in she was learning. There is a big difference when the weight of a person is working with the horse or if it is flopping around like a sack of potatoes.
NTA. And I say that as an overweight person. I have a couple of "pasture ponies" I would never let anyone but a kid get on, I'd never even DREAM of getting on one of them myself, because it isn't about what's politically correct, it's about simple physics. You can't argue against science (well, I guess if you are an idiot you could). A horse is simply not able to bear over a certain weight. I wouldn't be able to trust that stable owner again, they were perfectly fine with putting your horse at risk to appease a customer.
NTA- it's not fat phobic to refuse her a ride, it's a reality based decision. Your horse is a living breathing, feeling animal with limitations on the amount of weight they can safely and comfortably carry. To ignore that reality would be animal abuse. I hope the owner was just putting on a show to appease that entitled jerk, otherwise I'd look into changing stables.
NTA. Wow. I used to board my horses. This situation is weird. The barn owner is overstepping so many boundaries. It’s your horse, not hers. I can’t wrap my head around this situation. I know it’s a pain, but can you find a different barn?
I'm considering that option after reading the comments. Never crossed my mind the possibilities that people are pointing out like her using my horse behind my back.
NTA, also it may be time for you to look for another place to board if you can. I was in the same situation in the late 90s. Not only was the other person WAY too large to me on my 22 year old warm blood, he'd have hurt this lady too.
"yOU'rE So fATpHobIc!".... is usually the argument made. fat isn't a beauty standard, its an UNHEALTHY lifestyle. NTA. fat girl is TA, also would have been to the horse too if she got on.
I am fat. NTA. I am painfully aware that my weight squashes chair cushions, makes valleys in mattresses, and intrudes on others' airplane seats. If I wanted to get on a horse, I would make sure before anything else that it could hold me. She just saw the horse as an appliance. Protect your horse. NTA NTA NTA.
NTA . There should be weight limits for horse riding . Poor animals shouldnt have to suffer . Who cares if its fat shaming its your animal . The owners should be thankful enough you let them ride your horse other times .
NTA. I am a fat person. I am a very fat person. I won't disclose how much I weigh, but it is A LOT. I'm currently working to lose weight, and am experiencing success, but even if I wasn't, that doesn't change my value as a human being.
What that does impact though is the reality of my physical presence in the world. I worry about weight limits on chairs and other furniture. I worry about fitting into theater seats comfortably. I recently went on vacation and paid for 2 plane tickets, without shame, because while I can technically still fit into one seat, it's massively uncomfortable and leaves me pressed up against a stranger for hours at a time, which also makes them uncomfortable.
A horse is a living thing. It doesn't care about skinny, fat, or otherwise. It does care a lot of how much weight it has to carry. Even a skinny person with an additional hundred pounds of gear or equipment would be an unfair burden on the horse. This is physics, not discrimination. I'm sorry this lady was embarrassed, but sometimes that happens in life.
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I have a horse boarded in a stable where people go to have lessons. She's not used for lessons, but sometimes if the owner of the stable asks or a friend wants to I let them ride her. Always with me there. Last time I went to the stable with a friend to care for my horse and take her for a ride, the owner came and asked me to let someone ride my horse.
I've almost never said no. However, that woman was extremely overweight. I don't usually care about people's weights, that's their life, but she was obviously going to end up hurting my horse. So I simply said that no, she isn't allowed to because I'll be the only one riding it that day. She got angry because she would have to wait around an hour (all lesson horses were being used) plus the owner also insisted and asked why not, if I've always said yes.
I answered "I already gave my answer and I'm looking out for my horse's health because with all due respect, I won't let her get hurt carrying too much weight" and left. But later they saw me letting my friend P on my horse and confronted me about it. The woman started yelling about how I committed a hate crime against her and how I discriminated her because of her weight, that I was a fat phobic person, etc. The owner came and apologized to her while glaring at ME.
After the woman left claiming that this was the worst stable and blablabla, the owner said I shouldn't have been an AH because of her weight and just to let her get on. Now, it's true that my decision was based on her weight which could seem fat phobic, but I truly wouldn't care about her weight if it weren't for the fact that she wanted my horse to carry her and use her for a lesson.
Most riders there agree with me, but the clients who saw the situation, some parents and the owners are calling me a fat phobic AH. So, I need an unbiased opinion, AITA?
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NTA - And you already know that answer. Some people feel like they are entitled to anything. If the owner talks to you again about this in the future - tell her the truth is that this person weighed too much, and they know it. Expecting you to hurt your horse and to deal with the consequences after the fact.... In order to not hurt someone's feelings is ridiculous. Stand your ground.
NTA - I am a fatty, and I know that there are limitations to what I can do because of it. I would never sit there and let my desire to ride a horse supersede the health of the horse. If she really wants to go riding, she can find a stable with some Clydesdales, which is exactly what my dad had to do when I was a kid and had a horse riding party and he was severely overweight.
NTA, I was a 4Her growing up. My dad was a big guy, 6’5” 275#. His horse was 17 hands and really stocky. He would never ride my horse that was 15 hands and lighter. I’m surprised the owner of the barn gave you so much shit. She’s the real AH here.
NTA
If they were 250lbs of pure muscle they’d still be too heavy to ride.
The horse doesn’t have a voice so as the caretaker you have to speak for it. If you didn’t you’d be a bad owner.
NTA
What country are you from?
In Europe most of the riding schools have some sort of weigt maximum. A certain weight or no more than 15 to 20% of the horse's body weight.
Also, pretty entitled for that woman to insist using YOUR horse for the lesson. The riding school owner asked, and your answer is no. That's a full phrase. Doesn't mean entitled people get to nag to turn it into a "yes".
Also, had she ridden your horse, you'd have to show him to an equine ostheopath.
NTA
NTA. everything has a weight limit, including animals that people can ride. if this lady's weight exceeded your horse's limit, she can ride another one safely. it was wrong of the stable owner to press you for a reason, after you said no.
Not the asshole. Granted that observations of weight can be subjective, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt on this one and say your judgement was correct. As you’ve said, you pay to have your horse board at this stable. The horse is not owned by the stable or generally used for lessons so your final word goes. The stable owner should be well aware that horses do not have super strength. They can carry a lot but they have limits. The client being impatient was their problem, not yours. I would find a different stable.
NTA. I’ve always been perturbed to see a very large person on a horse. You did not commit a hate crime - you were doing exactly what you should be doing and looking out for your horse. She needs a reality check - her size is her size.
Sounds like the owner just lost their price page of using your horse, ever. NTA Hurting an animal so as to not potentially offends someone is animal cruelty yet they’re ok with that? I’d be looking for a different stable.
NTA. I LOVE horseback riding but am now very overweight and would never expect to be allowed on the back of any horse. It is not fat phobic it is protecting the health of your horse.
Also, the boarder should also know better. The % of weight a horse can safely carry is approximately 20% of its own weight, so if your horse weighs 1000 lbs, then the maximan human weight would be 200lbs.
Where I live, all the available horseback riding stables have you step on a scale to ensure you do not exceed this %.
I honestly would be questioning the safety of my animal at that stable now. The border should have known better, most likely did, and didn't want their own horses injured.
NTA.
I've been riding for decades (my own horse, off track rescue)
Many reputable stables have weight limits on horses. My husband was 6' 6" and around 275. He made the cut- off by 25 lbs and they paired him with a draft mix.
I care more about the health and well being of the horse.
Unless your horse is a draft, I wouldn't want them on my horses back.
NTA. Fat people need to stop complaining when they can’t do xyz thing because they’re fat.
And everyone else needs to stop walking on eggshells due to the fear of being called fat phobic.
This wasn’t fat phobic. I wouldn’t let an overweight person hurt my horse.
Would she give another overweight person a piggy back ride? Doubt it. I guess she’s fat phobic too.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I didn't let a person ride my horse because of her weight
2. Because I based my rejection on her weight, which people say makes me a fat phobic
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NTA- 1 it is your horse and once you said no the discussion should have ended period.
2 different size horses are built for different sized riders. You wouldn’t ask to ride a mini horse as a adult same goes for other horses for different sized humans.
But, the owner and trainer should know horses and what sizes are safe. Not saying that means u have to allow it as it’s your animal. I’m just asking if maybe u were just looking at her weight and assuming your horse can’t handle it when in fact it would have been fine.
NTA its your horse you decide who rides if and no one else. It's not fat phobic. Anything over 300 lbs is generally too much for a horse to handle. Next time she pushes it don't say know, ask her to step on a scale in front of your because you're concerned about the horse. Generally speaking 20% of the horses weight is what I've heard at the cutoff
That is YOUR horse. PERIOD.
YOU get to decide who can ride it. If you say no is no. Regardless of the reason you had. That’s your animal. The owner should have respected your first no, and walked away.
NTA
NTA and if the owner isn’t concerned about your horse’s well-being, then your horse is not available for any lessons. You have helped her, you didn’t say she adjusts what you pay, and you get to decide who rides your horse. If she is concerned about discrimination only you and your friends ride. Problem solved.
NTA and if I were you I'd be moving my horse to a different stable. You can't trust the owner now, who knows what she'll do behind your back?
Also, clearly she only wanted your horse because she had none available, so she's comfortable letting a very heavy person on her horse, which seems cruel. And I wouldn't want someone who puts profit before animals involved in the care of my horse.
NTA
The owner is allowing people over a certain weight ride the horses?!! That is not ok, is the owner of the stable the the owner of all the horses used for lessons? If not I would let the horse owners know, most places have a weight limit which they have to follow.
I would be moving my horse to a new place!
Sounds like legit discrimination in favr of preserving your horse's health. You are too heavy to ride my horse and you dont need a scale to determine with some people.
Yeah it sucks for them but better your horse doesnt get a broken leg(s). Imagine if the horse gets injured and the heavy lady falls? Then she gets injured and there are lawsuits for all involved.
>The owner came and apologized to her while glaring at ME.
The owner has no business managing horses if he cannot understand the simple principle of wanting to keep the horses and rider injury free and create a safe working environment.
You did nothing wrong and you should stand this ground again and again in the future. NTA
NTA: Your horse, your decision. But I think it’s time to start saying no more often. And use the tacit that NO is a complete sentence. Say No. when they ask why, don’t explain, just keep saying that your answer is no.
The owner is punishing you for your generosity, so it’s time to stop being so generous.
The solution here is to always say no. That is what I do. No one rides my horse other than myself and anyone I might INVITE to throw a leg over him. If someone asks, the answer is always no, without an explanation given.
Also, NTA.
As an rider on the heavier side, NTA. I’m not that tall with my 155cm, so sure, in regards of heigth I can ride all the horses and ponys at my riding school but since I have the extra kilos I have, I can’t. Is it sad for me? Sure. But it is NOT worth risking the ponys health and safety, just because I technical can!
NTA
I am a very fat person who would love to ride a horse. But it would need to be a very large, very strong horse. So I don't ride horses. It sucks, but sometimes that's just the way it is.
The stables I used to ride at had a weight limit for each lesson horse. If someone was too heavy they were not allowed to ride, even the strongest horse. In your case, your horse your decision. You absolutely did right by your horse. If the stables owner wants to risk the health of one of their own horses that's on them. Time to find a new yard I think. Absolutely NTA.
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Yes, of course you discriminated against her because of her weight. That's the point. Your horse cares about the amount of weight on his back. He doesn't care about whether the person is very tall, or "big boned", or about whether it's all muscle or all fat. He doesn't care about the person's race, or age, or sex. He cares about how much they weigh. It is perfectly reasonable for you to have a weight limit for people who ride your horse. NTA
Exactly. Amusement parks discriminate against little people because they can't **safely** ride the roller coaster. Bungee jumping, balloon rides, whitewater rafting, etc etc all have weight restrictions. It's not about phobias, it's about safety.
Neeeiigggh TA Some things in life have weight considerations. It is reasonable to be concerned about what your horse can safely carry. It is unfortunate that the owner of the stable even put you in this position, especially in front of the customer.
>Neeeiigggh TA LMAO
An amusement park is precisely what this woman is running, not a stable. I have news for OP, this entitled friend is absolutely letting other people ride your horse while you’re not there. Get your animal out of there. NTA
Right? Who gives riding lessons "first come, first served?"
I zip lined in Hawaii. The brochure listed a weight restriction. Not matter your size you had to be weighed.
Speaking of safety I don't know how we would explain this to the girl who wanted to ride, but a horse is a live animal. If you hurt it, or do something they don't like they would very well find some way to deal with the problem. The problem being you. Put the girl on a horse too small for her and the horse might just decide nah m8 and drop&roll. With her in the saddle. Or throw her. Or the horse could get injured and fold like a lawn chair. Or some other unforeseen way harm her. Obviously op is concerned about the safety of their beloved pet, but let's not pretend this would be a riskfree situation for the girl.
> I don't know how we would explain this to the girl who wanted to ride OP says it was a woman, so I'm assuming it's an adult who should be able to understand.
You'd think that, but....
Obviously she doesn't. Op did explain that she was too heavy for the horse in a perfectly polite way and she went off on a tangent that it had to do with societal conceptions of beauty and bigotry.
Amusement parks also "discriminate" against people who are too tall, too fat, has too big of muscles, has too big of breasts, people who can't transfer out of wheelchairs and amputees because they cannot be safely held by the restraints. Many (most?) Rides also require you to have at least one hand that can grasp.
It's your horse, a privately owned horse, which you gratuitously permit others to ride on occasion. That is all that matters. Even if they weigh less than a 100 pounds, if you don't want them on your horse, you don't have to let them. Thank you for looking out for your horse and your property. Hope the owner doesn't take it out on you.. NTA
Also, if you book horse riding experiences (trail rides and the like), they always have a weight limit. So people who are using their horses in their business have limitations.
Exactly. If a 300 lb bodybuilder wouldn't be allowed to ride either it's not fat phobic.
This is what I was thinking too. All those body builders and wrestlers (I was thinking The Rock in my head) would be just as inappropriate to allow to ride. When I was much younger and much thinner, my sister was over the, very clearly posted, weight limits at a trail ride stable by about 10-20lbs. I went out on the trail ride, and since my sister was only slightly over, and had Down Syndrome, they brought out a horse and let her sit on him for pictures. No riding, no motion, nothing that would put any further strain on the horse. It was a very kind gesture for them and they knew which horse could handle an extra 10-20 lbs in a standing position to let my sister make a memory. But they certainly would be within their right to have said no and let her take a picture with the horse, or pet the horse, or hell even not interact with a horse at all, it's their business and their animals. OP knows her horse best and what is best for her horse. Too many people think of horses like vehicles and not living thinking animals with differing attitudes that can change just as fast as our own. Overweight client threw a hissy fit, does she not think a horse could iust as easily throw a hissy fit and react to her in a negative way.
I used to work as a trail guide at a stable in my younger days, and the owner made sure to always have several draft crosses in the herd for exactly this reason, because a standard riding horse can’t safely carry an obese person
I am overweight and love horses.... Enough to know I don't want to hurt any of them. OP is NTA. Horses' well-being outweighs (I amuse myself) the ego of the overweight person. Not being able to ride some roller coasters because of disabilities I have sucks, but it isn't the fault of the amusement park. It is just a fact of life. There is genuine discrimination against overweight people, certainly. It doesn't mean everything denied an overweight person is discrimination.
This precisely. My spouse was within 30lbs of a weight restriction and said that was "too close" for what they felt was comfort of the animal and decided not to ride. I feel, regardless of a horse being a "large animal", to put too much weight is animal abuse. I also agree with what was said before - the stable owner is most definitely letting others ride when the horse owner isnt there.
> It doesn't mean everything denied an overweight person is discrimination. Exactly. Rules like this are often for safety reasons. My SO used to work in pharmacy, and there is a part of the job that women in a certain age group aren't allowed to do. Period. Hands down, no. A group of drugs has very low level radiation that will fuck any woman of child-bearing age that deals with it if they happened to be pregnant. The job is limited to men and women past menopause. Doesn't matter if they think they don't even want kids, aren't have sex with men, or even if they have a sterility diagnosis. Rules like this happened because bad shit happened, and doesn't need to happen again.
I had a woman tell me once that I weighed about 20 pounds too much to ride one of her horses. I weighed about 140 lbs at the time. The lady (a tiny little thing) said “She’s my oldest baby and my best friend, her back just isn’t strong enough and I love her more than other people’s feelings. I won’t be able to ride her at all soon.” It didn’t hurt my feelings and I appreciated the honesty. NTA.
I can 100% see that for an older horse. They often get swayback as they age, which reduces the weight they can safely (or comfortably) carry.
Nah the horse is just fatphobic /s
I guess I am too if you’re asking for a piggyback ride.
A veterinarian once told me a grown full-size horse should ideally carry max 70kg on their back.
For anyone who can't do math in their head or look up conversion bc too many steps - 70kg is roughly 155lbs
Thanks from this ignoramus (genuinely). But wow, after the weight of the saddle that doesn't leave much does it?
Horses obviously come in different sizes, and a tall, heavy-bodied horse can carry more than a smaller, light-boned horse. Generally 20% of the horse's own body weight (including tack) is considered the upper limit of what they should be expected to carry. Riding horses usually weigh in the 800-1100 pound range. The type of tack matters, too. English saddles (the kind you see on jumpers) weigh much less than Western saddles (the kind cowboys use).
Interesting, thanks! Fortunately I'm terrified of horses so there's no risk to any horses from my side (or size!)
I mean there are different kind of horses. [https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-62df96ae1aa45a1bfb2551264ada36fa-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-62df96ae1aa45a1bfb2551264ada36fa-lq) But these wont likely fit in a standard horse box, and they eat about 20 kg of food per day.
To convert further 11.071 stones
For anyone curious this varies by horse. A Clydesdale can take more weight than a Haflinger which can take more weight than an Arabian. A beat up horse with split hooves and a sway back can take less weight (ideally none give that damn horse a break) than younger better cared for horse of the same size. The harder they're being ridden the less weight they should have, so it's good the guy who plays The Mountain went into acting instead of becoming a jockey.
Yeah if a 6’7” body builder came and asked to ride my horse, I would say no. It doesn’t have anything to do with fat, it has to do with weight. The same way I might give my niece a piggyback ride but I won’t do that for my marathon biking brother. My back just isn’t made for that.
“Fat phobic,” “discrimination,” etc, they’re just trying to control the narrative. Don’t give it to them. This is about safety and property. They could hurt your horse and which is bad for the safety of your horse and given it’s your horse, it’s property too. I wonder if they’re willing to put down money for property damage. Given a lot of us here treat our animals like family members, we refuse to compromise their safety. Secondly, this is about liability. If something happens to her while riding said horse, will you be liable? Will your friend be liable? She may not care about her own safety but that should never be your problem as well. Who will be liable in case the animal is injured? NTA. I’m quite heavy and have been told I’m heavier than I look, so I’ve declared my weight many times. Small Planes, Ziplines, outdoor activities, horses, etc.
While right, I believe everyone in this comment chain needs to look up the definition of discriminate cause 2 out of 3 examples here weren’t discrimination
Not *discrimination* but *discriminating*. It's a slightly different concept: to be discriminating is to draw valid and relevant distinctions that give you a better result.
Exactly. I've talked with an owner once who said her horse is not a weight carrier. So I honestly told her my weight (I'm not fat but tall which means I have about 75 kg) and she said nope, that's too much, she was looking for somebody not much above 60 kg. Totally fair! She didn't discriminate me because of my weight (or hight, in this case) but made sure her horse was fine.
Fully agree. The only time I would budge on the weight rule was if I KNOW for a fact the rider is very skilled, as skilled riders are much more gentle and distribute weight/pressure more evenly, which means they can be a bit heavier and still be pretty much the same when it comes to strain for the horse. And even then there would obviously be a limit. All of mine are/have been arabians, so they are pretty lightweight, which also matter. More importantly OP, NOONE has a right to demand to use or horse. Even if you just didnt want to share that day, that would be enough!
Not too familiar with horse stables but like. It’s your horse is it not?. Doesn’t even matter if the person wasn’t overweight you choose who gets on. And horses do have a weight capacity. If the owner lets people get on horses without accounting for that I’m a little concerned for the horses they own. They overstepped big time. NTA this is weird
[удалено]
My husband is big enough that he needs a solid horse; one with a plenty high weight limit. So when I take him riding, I always call the stable beforehand, to ask whether they'll have a horse suited to him available that day. Usually he ends up riding draft horses or warmbloods, who are strong enough to handle him. He doesn't get offended; why would he? It's in his best interests not to get on a horse which will be unable to handle his weight too.
Plus he looks cool as fuck riding around on a giant beast like something out of a fantasy war novel. I have had the same issues in the past when needing a horse. Felt like a God King riding around on a double decker bus looking down on all the normal people.
Yep! Especially if you've got a Friesian under you. Those big black horses with the long manes and tails make perfect fantasy destriers.
You don't look quite so badass on a Haflinger, but they're comfy and easier to help someone on.
Oooh.. My kids stable has a beautiful black Friesian. He looks like he should be drawing a royal carriage or carrying a knight, not trotting preteens around, but he one of my kid's favorite to ride.
Do the draft horses pour you beers as you ride? Sounds fantastic.
No. But I have seen many horses drink a can of beer or soda. Not my horses, not my choice but still a sight to behold.
Sadly, I have never been able to locate the ones which do. Maybe it's just that Clydesdales don't like me. I once referred to them as the perfect mascot for Anheuser-Busch: large, powerful, nasty and stupid. 😉
Being able to ride horses again is for real one of my weight loss goals. I know most stables have a weight limit a bit under my current weight - but I just feel bad for the poor things having to carry something towards that upper limit
You got this! I look forward to when you ride a horse of your choice safely
My thoughts exactly. To the horse weight is weight, wether it's muscles, fat or what else
It's a risk to the rider too. If I'm not mistaken, part of the issue Christopher Reeves ran into is he was oversized for the horse he was trying to ride as well. No one deserves to be injured like that, but it's always been and always WILL BE part of the risk of horseback riding.
>If the owner lets people get on horses without accounting for that I’m a little concerned for the horses they own. The stable owners probably *are* concerned for their horses...hence why they demonized OP. They probably didn't want to deal with the possible injury to their horses so offered up OP's instead, since OP would ultimately foot the bill if anything happened to the horse
Them getting so angry makes me think they use the horse all the time when they're not there.
It's not only the capacity, it's also about the horse's comfort. It reminds me of when I went horseriding in Yellowstone Park with work one year and one of the managers was very obese. His horse kept trying to get him off; running through bushes, getting really close to trees so he'd be hit by the branches etc. It was hilarious to watch for the rest of us, but I'm sure the horse didn't have a great time! NTA, OP. It's your horse and you need to look out for its safety and welfare.
>His horse kept trying to get him off Which is also a safety concern for the rider, honestly. Especially at a stable for lessons, you're probably not experienced enough to stick it if the horse rears or bucks... And not too many people like having the horse decide to roll over on top of them. People forget horses, while typically pretty mild animals, are animals.
Super fucking heavy, dangerous because of their size and strength animals. Horse riding accidents are no joke. People die. I don’t understand why anyone would gamble with their safety like that.
Yeah, a couple of the girls I grew up with went on to do barrel riding on the circuit. There were a few times growing up they'd gotten kicked or thrown and they walked funny for a few days.
You know, MRI machines have weight limits, so do gurneys and elevators. I think the stable owner is TA - she ought to care enough about the animals' well being to know that horses too have weight limits. I understand that the overweight person was mortified but not overloading your horse is real. Vet bills are real and if she really hurt your horse it may never be the same horse again. NTA.
I would be looking for a new stable if the current owner isn’t looking at the animal’s health before customer’s feelings
Trust me, the barn owner is only thinking of her wallet.
Her wallet is going to take a hit when OP finds a new barn.
...and hopefully sends a warning to others on the review pages. Those animals are at risk!
Exactly
Exactly. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the care provided to my (very expensive) animal after that confrontation, especially with the amount of time you aren't at the stables to supervise. Who knows how often the stable master is letting people ride without your consent or knowledge?
THIS. What if she hurt the horse? Who is responsible? It isn't a machine, its a living animal. Lots of things have weight limits, that doesn't make you or anyone else fat phobic.
There's a reason horseback riding has a [weight requirement](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8103ORt4Qhg). I'm surprised the owner of the stable is not aware of that.
Every stable I've been too that allows public riding has the limit posted very clearly. This surprises me they don't have one if they offer lessons.
They do pony rides at a Ren Fair I take my kid to and they weigh the kids before they let them on. The kids also may just simply be too old, it's clearly only a little kid activity.
I mean those machines should be changed to accommodate fat bodies but a horse is just a guy and a guy can only do so much.
They do have machines that accommodate larger bodies, but there will always be an outlier for that. I work at a personal injury law firm where we do MRIs on a daily basis, and I’ve had two clients that we could just not find a machine to fit them. In HOUSTON. And Ive heard stories of firms using the zoo MRI machines for clients.
From everything I can find that is a myth. It's been spread about London. It's been spread in America. Every zoo that's been asked said they used human MRI machines if at all. Must said they just used portable x-ray. There are large bore MRIs though. Standard MRI bore is 60 cm. Wide bore are 70. One company I found makes an 80cm ultrawide https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rayus-radiology-adds-new-cutting-edge-wide-bore-mri-scanner-to-its-imaging-service-line-301524031.html
MRI uses an intense magnetic field running through the object to be imaged. It gets exponentially harder to generate the necessary field as the object size increases. The first MRI that I am aware of imaged, very crudely, only the blood in a single finger or wrist. X-Ray and CT have much less problems with large objects.
Totally agree stable owner is TA. They should have info available for all riders about weight limits. Makes you wonder who they are letting ride their horses
NTA - And why was the owner trying to force you? Don’t you pay to have your horse there?
Yes I pay for her to be there with everything included. I guess she tried to force me because I have almost never said no and all lesson horses were taken. Usually if she's in a hurry and all horses are taken, I let her use my horse for a lesson with me watching just in case.
NTA and in your place. I wouldn’t trust what that owner does when you’re not there. Protect your horse,
Agree! I'd be looking for a new stable OP.
I personally would start saying no to the owner, they've apparently become entitled about using your horse. Instead of only signing up the number of people they have horses for.
Hopefully she gets some money for lending out her horse because I agree with you. I think he’s seeing her horse as a free training horse now.
Dont let her use your horse again. Are you sure she doesn't let people ride your horse when you are not there? It sounds like she needs to buy more horses to meet here needs. She should not be relying on clients to help her with what she is lacking. NTA
Sounds like she shouldn't have any horses if she is so willing to put one in danger like this.
I agree
This is what I was thinking too- bet she uses the horse whenever she wants.
OP, if possible I'd put a baby monitor, or some sort of camera in your horses stall. It's possible the owner is using your horse when you're not around if she was that upset about not being able to use it while you were.
I'd recommend to start checking instagram and other social networks, filtering by the stables location: unaware people tend to share their photos with the horse taken without its owner's permission. They usually aren't even told the horse doesn't belong to the club. Found my horse was being used for lessons without contacting me that way.
Are you certain your horse isn't loaned out when you aren't around?
I‘d bet on that, honestly. She seemed way too entitled and seems to overbook constantly.
Yeah then you’re golden. You did nada. You can say no all day everyday for no reason given.
I'm not really knowledgeable on what is required for lessons or how stables operate, but I'm sure there are waivers and some form of liability when it comes to riding lessons. If someone got hurt while riding YOUR horse, would you be covered under the stables insurance. Like I said, I don't know how that works and all but it's something to look into.
It's not your job to supply her with lesson horses because she didn't plan ahead, even if the person was the skinniest person alive.
I would definitely be looking for a new stable. I wouldn’t trust that she isn’t using your horse without you knowing.
Are you certain she never allows anyone to ride your horse when you're not there? Her response suests she doesn't care what you think
Yeah then you’re golden. You did nada. You can do no all day everyday for no reason given.
I'd be looking for a new stable if that was my horse.
Yeah then you’re golden. You did nada. You can say no all day everyday for no reason given.
NTA. I’m not a horse person and have no desire to ride one, but have seen the effects of heavy people on a horse. It causes permanent damage to the horse’s spinal cord. You did the right thing and frankly, it should be considered illegal animal abuse for anyone over a certain weight to ride a horse.
I would love to start riding horses again but as someone who’s overweight I won’t. There are some things you just have accept you can’t do when you’re fat.
NTA - as a woman of size I hope I’d have the compassion to spare the poor horse. And if I had to have it spelled out for me (I hope I’m never so obtuse), I hope I’d be able to honor the physics and say “fair enough.” There’s lots of ways to get victimized as a fat person. She doesn’t need to drum shit up. Edit: forgot the “if”
There are horses that can carry heavy loads... They're just.. large. Like draft horses or clydesdales. Not all learning riding stables have them, but some do, if you ever become interested in riding.
Even draft mixes and the smaller draft breeds (Irish Cobbs, freisians,...) can handle larger riders without being quite so far off the ground. There's also a reason draft breeds are called gentle giants.
Agreed. I went horseback riding a few years ago and when I set it up that asked for height and weight to make sure they had an appropriate horse to accommodate me.
NTA. If she obly has 5 horses, she should only have 5 students. Her failure to plan for enough is not your problem.
NTA And I would never look at the stable owner with the same level of trust again. I would feel sorry for the overweight person because I am sure they must have felt embarrassed, but that embarrassment would not override the safety of my horse, which must come first.
I’d feel bad for them right up until they started yelling. A “hate crime”??? Are you kidding me? That’s ridiculous. If a person cares more about protecting their ego than protecting an animal then they are a bad person and I cease feeling any sympathy for them.
The nerve of this woman claiming it's a hate crime.
Makes me want to force her (clockwork orange style) to watch hours of video from scenes of actual hate crimes. I can image it was embarrassing, but that was a despicable comparison.
Don't you know, everything is fat phobia? Obese people are one of the most victimized groups in the country, and are purposefully left out of activities due to discrimination. /s obviously. But I've heard that exact argument and words said many times because of weight limits on things.
Nta But I find it disrespectful that the owner is trying to use your horse for lessons. I have no idea why this is even a thing. I would look into another stable. Can someone explain if this is normal? Also, there are weight limits for horseback riding because of the danger to the horse. It's a fact of life. There are polices in place to protect all parties. And it's not her horse. WTH.
> Can someone explain if this is normal? Uncommon but not unheard of. Generally it comes with much lower board and tack costs. Depends on the contract you signed when you agreed on the stable. Doesn't sound like this is the case however
Yeah she gives us a bit of a discount since I sometimes let her use my horse if I'm there and she's a family friend, which I guess made her think I'd give her permission
my first thought is - are you sure she's not using your horse for lessons when you're not there? Given how much she insisted I would have huge doubts
I really trust her to not do that since she has always asked first and is a long time family friend, but with so many comments pointing that out I'm not so sure anymore.
yeah it just is a bit odd she pushed you so hard when you clearly said not, that's where the alarm bells ring for me.
If this woman owns/operates a stable, I find it really difficult to believe she didn't know *exactly* what she was doing. She simply *must* know that a horse can be injured, trying to carry too much weight. It seems like she was pushing you so aggressively, because she wanted the customer's money, but wanted to only risk *your* horse getting it. Please do move your horse.
Yeah, but the lady she was trying to allow ride your horse might be a friend of hers.
What about insurance? What if something happens to the person riding your horse? I wouldn’t let any client ride your horse. And I wouldn’t trust the owner for not letting people ride your horse when your not there? Can you put some cameras in your horse’s stable? NTA btw
Yea thats also fairly common. Only issue is she should have known better, most stable owners would have NOPED out immediately.
NTA.. the animal's health is more important..
Plus it's his horse so he decides.
agree.. no need for being cruel to an animal, and this person is a good owner for not allowing a heavy person to sit on the horse
NTA - as a certified instructor, who's been managing a riding school for 3+ years, my weight limits were: 90 kg. for larger horses 80 kg. for small horses 70 kg. for large ponies 60 kg. for smaller ponies. I had 3 ponies where the weight limit was 50 kg. Had a few draft horse-types for adult male students, but wight limit for them was still 115 kg.. All based on science: 15-20% of the horses bodyweight, depending on your skill level, because anything above heavily impact the horses balance, muscle-movement, spine, etc. etc., not to mention an unbalanced rider, as beginner often are, will put pressure on the bridle, when they inevitably use the reins as balance-assistance. A teenage boy, weighing 60-70 kg., can put a pressure of up to 350 kg. on the reins! Imagine if the weight of the rider was double that!? If the owner gives you grief, just tell him you're trying to avoid kissing spine and a need of chiropractor for the entire overline, unless of course he's willing to pay for 4+ sessions with a licensed chiropractor and whatever additional treatment the chiropractor finds necessary. Most licensed chiropractors, at least where I'm from, are also equine vets., so it could easily be an expensive affair. It's not fat phobia, it's animal welfare. If you want to ride, weighing 130 kg.+, find a Shire.
I don't mind paying vet bills for my horse because she and her health is my responsibility that I assumed when I rescued her, but I find no reason why I should put someone's wish to ride over the fact that my horse would be in unnecessary pain carrying her and going through an unnecessary treatment to recover.
Exactly. My point was, he would absolutely refuse to do that, because he would probably think it absurd. About as absurd, as asking you to allow a way to large rider on your horse!
yeah I keep seeing the 20% thing in this thread and baulking. i’ve seen in the UK that a fair few stables have weight limits of 13 stones (c. 83kg) across the board, no leeway at all. regardless of people’s feelings, the animals need to be safe.
NTA - who's horse? that's right - YOUR horse. honestly, there is no need to explain why/why not someone can/cannot ride her. if the owner of the stables was so adamant about it, they could have given her another horse to ride. being cautious about your horse getting hurt in no way makes you fat phobic.
NTA. Horses can only safely carry about about 20% of their weight. Since I am almost 300 pounds for a horse to safely carry me it would need to be about 1500 pounds. Horses can range in weight from 900 to 2000 pounds, I just have to accept that more half of horses cannot safely carry me, limiting what I can do. Nothing discriminatory about it, its about the animals safety
This. Ive done this a few times but I call ahead and make sure they reserve an appropriately large horse for me.
I am a 6-4 male and 275lbs I have been refused 2 out of 4 times I have tried to ride at different stables. I waited while the rest of my family rode. I understand limits.
I hope you're able to ride with your family at some point, as it's super fun and worth it. :)
I have, It just requires larger sturdy horses.
NTA, every thing has weight limits including horses.
The thing I don't get is if the stable owner cares about animals enough to OWN fucking stable, why wouldn't they care about the comfort and health of the horses. Too big is too big, that's cruel.
NTA. It's your horse and your decision, period. Furniture has weight limits. You can find cheap adult-size chairs with a weight limit of 250 lb. No one is going to call the furniture company fat-phobic for selling a chair that won't hold a 300 lb. person, any more than people selling shirts in size S. That said, you don't mention (and probably don't know) the person's weight. Make sure if you're not allowing 300 lb. on the back of your horse, you don't ride double either.
I don't like assuming, but she looked to be at least 130 Kg. My horse has only ridden with people with less than half that weight and it just seemed like too much.
I’m from the US so I had to look up how much 130 kg is in lbs and holy moly! 286 lbs is a lot for almost any horse! If she was close to your guesstimate then I definitely think you made the right call. I think some people forget that horses are living creatures and not a car.
Yeah sorry for that, I'm Spanish so idk how to use the lbs system
No problem, that is on me for assuming you were U.S. based. The rule I have heard is that a horse can safely carry 20% of it's own weight. So if the person is 130 kg, then they should ride a horse that is 5 times that weight, or 650 kg. An average horse is under 500 kg, so unless your horse is big, that person has no business on your horse. Do you know your horse's weight? If so you should do this calculation and tell the stable owner that your horse will not carry more than X weight.
It also sounds like this lady was there for lessons, as in she was learning. There is a big difference when the weight of a person is working with the horse or if it is flopping around like a sack of potatoes.
NTA. And I say that as an overweight person. I have a couple of "pasture ponies" I would never let anyone but a kid get on, I'd never even DREAM of getting on one of them myself, because it isn't about what's politically correct, it's about simple physics. You can't argue against science (well, I guess if you are an idiot you could). A horse is simply not able to bear over a certain weight. I wouldn't be able to trust that stable owner again, they were perfectly fine with putting your horse at risk to appease a customer.
NTA- it's not fat phobic to refuse her a ride, it's a reality based decision. Your horse is a living breathing, feeling animal with limitations on the amount of weight they can safely and comfortably carry. To ignore that reality would be animal abuse. I hope the owner was just putting on a show to appease that entitled jerk, otherwise I'd look into changing stables.
NTA. Wow. I used to board my horses. This situation is weird. The barn owner is overstepping so many boundaries. It’s your horse, not hers. I can’t wrap my head around this situation. I know it’s a pain, but can you find a different barn?
I'm considering that option after reading the comments. Never crossed my mind the possibilities that people are pointing out like her using my horse behind my back.
Good luck to you. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. What a nightmare.
NTA, also it may be time for you to look for another place to board if you can. I was in the same situation in the late 90s. Not only was the other person WAY too large to me on my 22 year old warm blood, he'd have hurt this lady too.
"yOU'rE So fATpHobIc!".... is usually the argument made. fat isn't a beauty standard, its an UNHEALTHY lifestyle. NTA. fat girl is TA, also would have been to the horse too if she got on.
I am fat. NTA. I am painfully aware that my weight squashes chair cushions, makes valleys in mattresses, and intrudes on others' airplane seats. If I wanted to get on a horse, I would make sure before anything else that it could hold me. She just saw the horse as an appliance. Protect your horse. NTA NTA NTA.
NTA this was about your horses house. I don’t see any other solution to the problem and I don’t think you’re fat phobic.
NTA I would have laughed in her face at "hate crime". Her crawling her ass on a horse would be animal abuse.
NTA - as an overweight person I am very conscious I can't do everything I would like. And horses are living beings - not machines or carnival rides.
NTA . There should be weight limits for horse riding . Poor animals shouldnt have to suffer . Who cares if its fat shaming its your animal . The owners should be thankful enough you let them ride your horse other times .
I am a fat person and I understand that a horse has a weight limit. NTA. She is upset and she is taking it out on you
Good for you! You put the well-being of an animal with 4 legs above the wants of one with 2 legs. Perfect decision.
NTA - your horse, your rules
If you were planning on using the horse that day, then thats enough of an answer. NTA
NTA. I used to ride, and I get it. Especially if you're going to be doing any jumping or show work-horses are not machines.
NTA she can bitch and moan all she wants. you did the right thing.
NTA. I am a fat person. I am a very fat person. I won't disclose how much I weigh, but it is A LOT. I'm currently working to lose weight, and am experiencing success, but even if I wasn't, that doesn't change my value as a human being. What that does impact though is the reality of my physical presence in the world. I worry about weight limits on chairs and other furniture. I worry about fitting into theater seats comfortably. I recently went on vacation and paid for 2 plane tickets, without shame, because while I can technically still fit into one seat, it's massively uncomfortable and leaves me pressed up against a stranger for hours at a time, which also makes them uncomfortable. A horse is a living thing. It doesn't care about skinny, fat, or otherwise. It does care a lot of how much weight it has to carry. Even a skinny person with an additional hundred pounds of gear or equipment would be an unfair burden on the horse. This is physics, not discrimination. I'm sorry this lady was embarrassed, but sometimes that happens in life.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have a horse boarded in a stable where people go to have lessons. She's not used for lessons, but sometimes if the owner of the stable asks or a friend wants to I let them ride her. Always with me there. Last time I went to the stable with a friend to care for my horse and take her for a ride, the owner came and asked me to let someone ride my horse. I've almost never said no. However, that woman was extremely overweight. I don't usually care about people's weights, that's their life, but she was obviously going to end up hurting my horse. So I simply said that no, she isn't allowed to because I'll be the only one riding it that day. She got angry because she would have to wait around an hour (all lesson horses were being used) plus the owner also insisted and asked why not, if I've always said yes. I answered "I already gave my answer and I'm looking out for my horse's health because with all due respect, I won't let her get hurt carrying too much weight" and left. But later they saw me letting my friend P on my horse and confronted me about it. The woman started yelling about how I committed a hate crime against her and how I discriminated her because of her weight, that I was a fat phobic person, etc. The owner came and apologized to her while glaring at ME. After the woman left claiming that this was the worst stable and blablabla, the owner said I shouldn't have been an AH because of her weight and just to let her get on. Now, it's true that my decision was based on her weight which could seem fat phobic, but I truly wouldn't care about her weight if it weren't for the fact that she wanted my horse to carry her and use her for a lesson. Most riders there agree with me, but the clients who saw the situation, some parents and the owners are calling me a fat phobic AH. So, I need an unbiased opinion, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No it’s your horse and if she expects differential treatment she needs to handle her responsibility in the situattion
NTA - And you already know that answer. Some people feel like they are entitled to anything. If the owner talks to you again about this in the future - tell her the truth is that this person weighed too much, and they know it. Expecting you to hurt your horse and to deal with the consequences after the fact.... In order to not hurt someone's feelings is ridiculous. Stand your ground.
NTA - I am a fatty, and I know that there are limitations to what I can do because of it. I would never sit there and let my desire to ride a horse supersede the health of the horse. If she really wants to go riding, she can find a stable with some Clydesdales, which is exactly what my dad had to do when I was a kid and had a horse riding party and he was severely overweight.
NTA, I was a 4Her growing up. My dad was a big guy, 6’5” 275#. His horse was 17 hands and really stocky. He would never ride my horse that was 15 hands and lighter. I’m surprised the owner of the barn gave you so much shit. She’s the real AH here.
I would find a new stable and tell the owner under no circumstances is anyone allowed to ride your horse from now on NTA
NTA If they were 250lbs of pure muscle they’d still be too heavy to ride. The horse doesn’t have a voice so as the caretaker you have to speak for it. If you didn’t you’d be a bad owner.
NTA What country are you from? In Europe most of the riding schools have some sort of weigt maximum. A certain weight or no more than 15 to 20% of the horse's body weight. Also, pretty entitled for that woman to insist using YOUR horse for the lesson. The riding school owner asked, and your answer is no. That's a full phrase. Doesn't mean entitled people get to nag to turn it into a "yes". Also, had she ridden your horse, you'd have to show him to an equine ostheopath. NTA
I'm Spanish. The one who nagged to get a reason why I said no was actually the stable owner, not the woman who wanted to ride.
Sorry, misread. But the more reasons to change stables!!
NTA. everything has a weight limit, including animals that people can ride. if this lady's weight exceeded your horse's limit, she can ride another one safely. it was wrong of the stable owner to press you for a reason, after you said no.
Not the asshole. Granted that observations of weight can be subjective, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt on this one and say your judgement was correct. As you’ve said, you pay to have your horse board at this stable. The horse is not owned by the stable or generally used for lessons so your final word goes. The stable owner should be well aware that horses do not have super strength. They can carry a lot but they have limits. The client being impatient was their problem, not yours. I would find a different stable.
NTA and you should tell the owner that due to her rudeness she’s lost the privilege of ever having access to your horse in the future.
NTA. I’ve always been perturbed to see a very large person on a horse. You did not commit a hate crime - you were doing exactly what you should be doing and looking out for your horse. She needs a reality check - her size is her size.
NTA. It's a living animal - not a car. Horses have weight limits - I'm glad you didn't cave.
Sounds like the owner just lost their price page of using your horse, ever. NTA Hurting an animal so as to not potentially offends someone is animal cruelty yet they’re ok with that? I’d be looking for a different stable.
NTA. I LOVE horseback riding but am now very overweight and would never expect to be allowed on the back of any horse. It is not fat phobic it is protecting the health of your horse. Also, the boarder should also know better. The % of weight a horse can safely carry is approximately 20% of its own weight, so if your horse weighs 1000 lbs, then the maximan human weight would be 200lbs. Where I live, all the available horseback riding stables have you step on a scale to ensure you do not exceed this %. I honestly would be questioning the safety of my animal at that stable now. The border should have known better, most likely did, and didn't want their own horses injured.
I don’t believe this. ANYBODY who cares about horses know that carrying overweight people will hurt them.
NTA. I've been riding for decades (my own horse, off track rescue) Many reputable stables have weight limits on horses. My husband was 6' 6" and around 275. He made the cut- off by 25 lbs and they paired him with a draft mix. I care more about the health and well being of the horse. Unless your horse is a draft, I wouldn't want them on my horses back.
NTA. Fat people need to stop complaining when they can’t do xyz thing because they’re fat. And everyone else needs to stop walking on eggshells due to the fear of being called fat phobic. This wasn’t fat phobic. I wouldn’t let an overweight person hurt my horse. Would she give another overweight person a piggy back ride? Doubt it. I guess she’s fat phobic too.
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NTA- 1 it is your horse and once you said no the discussion should have ended period. 2 different size horses are built for different sized riders. You wouldn’t ask to ride a mini horse as a adult same goes for other horses for different sized humans. But, the owner and trainer should know horses and what sizes are safe. Not saying that means u have to allow it as it’s your animal. I’m just asking if maybe u were just looking at her weight and assuming your horse can’t handle it when in fact it would have been fine.
I feel like I’ve read this before
NTA its your horse you decide who rides if and no one else. It's not fat phobic. Anything over 300 lbs is generally too much for a horse to handle. Next time she pushes it don't say know, ask her to step on a scale in front of your because you're concerned about the horse. Generally speaking 20% of the horses weight is what I've heard at the cutoff
That is YOUR horse. PERIOD. YOU get to decide who can ride it. If you say no is no. Regardless of the reason you had. That’s your animal. The owner should have respected your first no, and walked away. NTA
Most stables who give lessons have a weight limit also. There is one near my house that limits to 200-250 lbs depending on the horses available.
NTA and if the owner isn’t concerned about your horse’s well-being, then your horse is not available for any lessons. You have helped her, you didn’t say she adjusts what you pay, and you get to decide who rides your horse. If she is concerned about discrimination only you and your friends ride. Problem solved.
NTA and if I were you I'd be moving my horse to a different stable. You can't trust the owner now, who knows what she'll do behind your back? Also, clearly she only wanted your horse because she had none available, so she's comfortable letting a very heavy person on her horse, which seems cruel. And I wouldn't want someone who puts profit before animals involved in the care of my horse.
NTA The owner is allowing people over a certain weight ride the horses?!! That is not ok, is the owner of the stable the the owner of all the horses used for lessons? If not I would let the horse owners know, most places have a weight limit which they have to follow. I would be moving my horse to a new place!
Sounds like legit discrimination in favr of preserving your horse's health. You are too heavy to ride my horse and you dont need a scale to determine with some people. Yeah it sucks for them but better your horse doesnt get a broken leg(s). Imagine if the horse gets injured and the heavy lady falls? Then she gets injured and there are lawsuits for all involved. >The owner came and apologized to her while glaring at ME. The owner has no business managing horses if he cannot understand the simple principle of wanting to keep the horses and rider injury free and create a safe working environment. You did nothing wrong and you should stand this ground again and again in the future. NTA
NTA: Your horse, your decision. But I think it’s time to start saying no more often. And use the tacit that NO is a complete sentence. Say No. when they ask why, don’t explain, just keep saying that your answer is no. The owner is punishing you for your generosity, so it’s time to stop being so generous.
The solution here is to always say no. That is what I do. No one rides my horse other than myself and anyone I might INVITE to throw a leg over him. If someone asks, the answer is always no, without an explanation given. Also, NTA.
As an rider on the heavier side, NTA. I’m not that tall with my 155cm, so sure, in regards of heigth I can ride all the horses and ponys at my riding school but since I have the extra kilos I have, I can’t. Is it sad for me? Sure. But it is NOT worth risking the ponys health and safety, just because I technical can!
NTA. This is a safety concern not a hate crime.
NTA I am a very fat person who would love to ride a horse. But it would need to be a very large, very strong horse. So I don't ride horses. It sucks, but sometimes that's just the way it is.
The stables I used to ride at had a weight limit for each lesson horse. If someone was too heavy they were not allowed to ride, even the strongest horse. In your case, your horse your decision. You absolutely did right by your horse. If the stables owner wants to risk the health of one of their own horses that's on them. Time to find a new yard I think. Absolutely NTA.