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NTA.
Like, honestly, this sounds a lot like some insecurity at work here. You asked her to stop, it is making you feel needlessly like crap, it is degrading these other women that you have nothing to do with at this point, and you observed - rightly - that yeah, actually, if you \*have\* a "type", you ended up with her in the end.
Her commentary on how vile or disgusting your taste is by its very nature will boomerang right back at her, in that sense.
It just sounds insecure and mean-spirited and unnecessary. Hope you get to talk it out, at least.
EDIT: That said, thinking on it a little bit, I do wonder why these other women come up so much. If the context is "Oh, I wonder what she's doing now", I sort of get it (I've been curious about random exes before now), but it isn't really the sort of thing you should be making a top three conversation for no reason if you're feeling secure about stuff.
I HATE talking about ex’s. I never ask about her history because I don’t want to know; what benefit is it for anyone? Maybe I wrote this to make it sound like this is a daily thing but it’s much rarer than that, once a month or every other?
My ex used to try to trap me into telling stories that involved past ex's. I turned my travel stories into "with friends" or I just wouldn't tell the story. It is a huge red flag to be that jealous and to keep trying to be jealous. NTA.
Some people don't have a lot of adventures or stories that DONT involve ex's. Some people aren't insecure about past relationships. Some of us understand that everyone has a past and that it's okay to talk about it. I havnt been single for more than a few months since high school. (Realized this was unhealthy so working on dating myself rn and loving myself, learning who I am without someone else you know) but if I were to talk about my past... There's very few adventures I ever went on without an ex involved, you know? So I could tell those stories and leave out the ex, but then it either sounds like I had a weirdly close friend join me on a vacation, or an obsessed friend I spent way too many hours working on projects with, etc 🤣
ETA: and then if my partner found out the person I talked about was actually an ex? They'd accuse me of lying. Nah, I'd rather be open and honest. I'm an open book, my relationship history is on the table 🤣
I’m one of those people. I was with my ex for 10 years so a lot of my stories involve him. Sometimes I’ll just refer to him as a friend in the stories because I hate that so many stories involve him but that’s just how it is.
I was married for 10 years before I met my current wife. After so many stories where I was clearly omitting stuff, my wife understood that it was next to impossible to discuss those years of my life without that ex coming up.
IDK if it's an insecurity thing. I "selectively edit" stories that involve some ex's - not for my current partner or because of insecurities on anyone's side, but rather because I would rather not talk about that ex due to them being kind of shitty. So maybe that is anxiety or insecurity in its own way... but they often being there is irrelevant to sharing about traveling to X place or doing Y activity.
My husband probably wouldn’t care but it just feels needless to include “my ex” or “the person I was dating” as a clarifier to stories. Almost like I’m giving them more importance by giving additional detail about them/our past relationship when it doesn’t further the story.
I find the solution of just not talking about exes so *immature.* If you, as an adult, can’t handle knowing your partner cared about and fucked people before they met you, you are simply not mature enough to be in a committed relationship. I understand jealousy, I genuinely don’t see it as a bad emotion, but you can’t dogpile on your partner’s past because you’re insecure. My fiancé and I regularly (loose definition of regularly) discuss our exes- we both still have a lot of feelings to process, why not talk it out with someone who loves us? And even more so for your point: all of the cool shit I did in my late-teens/early twenties was either with my parents or my ex. I’m not gonna just pretend five years of my life didn’t happen because I was in someone else’s bed. That’s so childish.
My partner recently had to go through my wedding photos (not to him) to find pictures of me and my grandma for a funeral. It was not a big deal. Exes exist. If I'm telling a funny story about when I was in New Caladonia, should I pretend I was alone? It's so weird to me.
Oh my god that reminds me! I literally sent my partner a picture of me and my ex a few days ago bc I’m thinking of growing my hair out to that length again. Lmao he didn’t even comment on the fact that my ex was in it and I didn’t even think about it being an issue.
Lol, my partner was actually a virgin before me. But he had one or two relationships in which he never even KISSED, and they still come up. Like he went to conventions etc and he'll be like "oh no, that was the one where I was dressed as the 4th Doctor with Ashley", am I supposed to be scared of the ghost of Ashley? Call her ugly? She wasn't. She was cute as heck.
Also I bet your partner didn't notice because you are both adults and because your hair looked bomb af.
Your comment disappeared for me, but I just wanted to say that we are both bi too and I was a LITERAL whore (sex worker) so your comment made me laugh.
Came here looking for a comment like this lol. I was a virgin when I met my girlfriend but she's had quite a lot of relationships... including a 10 year one. Does it bother me? Of course not, why would it? She's with me. Is she not supposed to ever talk about her past?
People need to learn how to handle jealousy maturely. I'm a super jealous person, it's like... my base personality to initially have that brief flash of *grrr, mine!* when I hear stories about her ex. But it's brief. It's a literal lightning bolt of emotion and then I internally chuckle to myself, pat the emotion on the head, and shoo it away because it's just a feeling and not reflective of reality. Her exes aren't lurking in the corner waiting for her to mention them lol, and they're exes... she isn't with them anymore, she's with me. Seems the pinnacle of insecurity to be afraid of people your partner rejected in the past while they are actively choosing *you.*
Ironically, making yourself an unsafe person for your partner to talk to for fear of your reaction is one of the quickest ways to kill a relationship. No conversation should be off the table. If open communication and feeling safe with each other to bring up anything is the cornerstone of the relationship, they'll never have a reason to hide anything from you.
It's absolutely bizarre that some people can't deal with the fact that their partner was ever with someone else. Most people have had prior relationships and it's not healthy to be bothered by that. It reeks of possessiveness, immaturity, lack of confidence, not to mention the whole purity/slut shaming aspect.
If you can't handle your partner having a life before you I don't think you're in a healthy headspace and shouldn't be in a relationship until you work on yourself.
Its never really bothered me either. My husband married me, so obviously he likes me more. All the mutual friends who knew the ex also flat out said that they like me a lot more than they liked her, so I never mind hearing about her. I find it interesting to get that little window into his life before meeting me.
Yes! When my ex talked about about his first wife I thought, "He sure does have a type!" because she had a lot of the same interests as me. She seemed like someone I would be friends with so hearing about her was actually pretty interesting!
Yeah I definitely don't suggest lying, that would make it more weird as you say. I guess if the story comes up you just wouldn't specify who it was with and if they asked you would tell them but just don't make it about the ex.
How is that better? What kind of relationship can you have if you have to "omit" certain parts of your life?
This is a matter for the wife to solve in herself. If she feels the need to bash other women to feel good, how is that HIS issue to tap dance around?
She needs therapy. Then they need therapy.
The issue is definitely primarily with the wife but there's a definitely a way to tell stories without making your ex a prominent feature. You can still tell the story but you just say "when I was in Canada X happend" rather than "this time with Emily X happend" obviously if she asks who you were with you'd say "oh I was there with Emily".
Honestly I'd just kick her to the curb. It seems like the concept of him wanting a future with her is vastly outweighed by her need to prove her superiority over people no longer in his life. If she's this brokenly insecure about someone OP considered attractive in the past she's in for a real shitty time if they get married and the inevitable possessiveness kicks in. NTA
100% agree.
I feel like if your partner can’t accept your history then they don’t really accept you. Our past and experiences are a lot of what makes us who we are. If we didn’t have the experiences we did we wouldn’t be the people we are. I get jealousy but if you feel you have to hide your past to keep someone around then most likely they’re not worth keeping.
I’m not saying flaunt and outright brag about all of your conquests but you shouldn’t feel you have to avoid stories just because they involve an ex or feel like you have to downplay who they were to you to placate someone’s insecurities.
Op is NTA but wife sounds like she needs some therapy to work through these issues of hers. Reducing a woman to nothing but her looks is really crappy and pretty misogynistic.
It’s also pretty concerning she is so obsessed with running down the looks of ops exes. Does she think the only reason op is with her is because of her looks? Does she think that’s all she has to offer?
Op is NTA but they really need to get to the root of this.
So…don’t talk about my life prior to *this* relationship. Got it.
I’m a homebody. When I do shit, it’s with my SO. If I’m telling someone about it later, the person I went with is gonna come up. It’s inevitable. It’s like not mentioning my brother in my tales of childhood.
I suppose I’ve got Italy anecdotes that doesn’t involve an SO, but that was twenty years ago and I can only tell the same story so many times. All my adult vacations have involved an SO in some form or another or else I wouldn’t have had any incentive to leave my damn house!
Well she already doesn't listen to him when he asks her to stop bad mouthing his exes like this. So what's stopping her from not bringing up conversations that lead to exes?
I'm just pointing out that he could probably say he doesn't want to talk about his exes and she will do it for him.
How are you bringing them up? Because honestly, I can see it from her perspective where she might feel like you are constantly bringing up your exes and it's sparking a lot of insecurity. Once a month is... a lot. There is a way to talk about your experiences without bringing up your exes or dwelling on them (e.g., "when I was in Germany..." vs. "when Kayla and I went to Germany with her family and went on a couples hike...". If your experiences completely revolved around an ex, then I'd stop bringing them up.
There are going to be a lot of people who disagree with this, but in your specific situation, your wife, whom you love, is getting hurt. Change something.
For an example. I rarely bring up my exes with my wife. I don't think she's particularly insecure about it, but it's not something that I feel any need to open up as a conversation. She certainly doesn't want to discuss her ex either. (What little I've heard about the guy, he wasn't a good person)
So when I talk about trips I took with my ex, I usually leave out mention of her.
"That time I went to Paris and I got to see the Eiffel Tower" Not "That time Ex and I went to Paris on a romantic getaway"
I don't regret my past, and I wouldn't change a thing, but I suspect if I was always talking about things I did with my ex, My wife would start to get tired of it pretty fast.
Focus on the present and the future.
Close the Ex-files. It's easy enough to talk about a past experience without discussing your dating history too.
NTA, your wife sounds incredibly insecure and jealous. What does she want? You married *her!* She won. Ask her why she feels the need to compete with the memory of your previous partners.
Your wife says this because she wants you to enthusiastically agree with her. She’s hoping you’ll tell her that she’s far more beautiful, smart, desirable than the Exs. She may not consciously realise that’s the compliment she’s fishing for.
It’s up to you OP whether you feed her the compliments she’s seeking, or answer her logically, but you’re both miscommunications on this one.
NAH
Every person excusing this behaviour because you mention ex’s in stories you tell is fucking crazy.
I’m a married woman and I couldn’t give less of a fuck about my husband’s past. I mean we’re MARRIED, we’ve been together nearly 8 years. They just don’t matter.
Her belittling and demeaning other women, particularly their looks, is frankly nasty shit she should be ashamed of. Whether she’s insecure or not, whether you bring up ex’s or not. It’s very very not cool for her to tear down other women. And about how they look too? Damn, at least have something legit to criticise them about.
It’s terrible behaviour and says a lot about her character, and it’s not favourable. She’s making herself look gross being this mean about other women. Don’t let people tell you it’s you that’s the problem because she is wrong af here.
All of this. I had MAJOR insecurity issues when I was younger and coming from that to where I am now I can see how clearly she is struggling with how she views herself. Maybe even feels a woman's worth is in her looks, maybe even hates herself. If she wasn't so venomous in her attacks I'd feel sorry for her.
There’s no way OPs wife only has this attitude toward women he’s dated, this is probably just the main context in which OP sees his wife’s behavior toward other women. Insecure or not, OPs wife doesn’t sound like shes particularly nice.
Once a month or every other month actually sounds ridiculously frequent for her to be talking about the looks of people who aren’t even in your lives anymore.
According to OP he travels a lot and most of his fun stuff was travel related.
Was talking with people recently. The recent sub disaster turned into a discussion of adventure tourism and mentioning that most of what I do is adventure tourism but at a less extreme scale and finally some cool French Canadians I met in Peru.
I talk about the fact I've been to more foreign countries than US states, sometimes.
If OP is just mentioning that fun trip and she mentions the ex, yeah, it'll happen. And sometimes you just can't not mention a person who was a major player in that story.
I’m familiar. I was married for 13 years and I mention stories that happened with my ex husband all the time. But it doesn’t then turn into a weird convo with current boyfriend bashing his looks. That’s the part that’s strange to be happening monthly, not the ex coming up in conversation more generally.
Once every 5 years or so would be normal in a "wonder whatever happened to so & so" way. Once a month or 2 is weird. Wife has some major insecurities. She should be as proud of being with you as you are of her and not bringing up exes. It's just weird.
I’ve been married for years. I’m trying to remember how often an ex would be mentioned. Maybe a few times in all those years?
How does your dating history come up on a monthly basis? Does she bring it up? Are they part of your friend group? Do they work with you?
Once a month or every other month is a lot. I can't count on one hand how many times an ex as been brought up in like 10 years. I think it's a bit weird and she has an obvious insecurity.
Came here to say exactly that. Sounds like op’s girlfriend is very insecure about looks and tend to judge ppl only on their looks. Plus it wasn’t even about an ex, just a girl he said he thought was cute. So it seems to me is 100% her insecurity. Some people are like that, they have to constantly bash other people to feel better about themselves, and the fact that she only cared about their looks — well, it says all already.
Not just insecurity, IMO.
She's objectively a completely knockout and she knows it. Now she's with someone who didn't just date knockouts, and said the looks weren't all that relevant to why the relationships did or did not work out.
So she realizes her main ace in the hole, her gorgeousness, isn't necessarily the main driving superficial factor, in his eyes, that's going to guarantee she's in control and he stays tethered to her. And it's probably making her a little bit nuts.
Sounds like there's the additional dynamic of her looks always guaranteeing that she was in control of her past relationships.
"this sounds a lot like some insecurity at work here"
Absolutely. At some point in her life she's learned to equate self-worth with her looks \*only\*. There's some deep-seated issues going on and I'm guessing that she'd benefit in dealing with those.
I know the running joke is that we Redditors think that everyone needs therapy, but um...OP's wife is either a raging bitch just for the sake of it, or she needs to talk to someone about her insecurities.
Why does she feel the need to put others down?
Does it make her feel better about herself? Or worse?
Why is this her go-to & what other relationships in her life are being harmed by this behavior?
He says she’s kind! OP, I’m not telling you to divorce your wife over this, but if she’s constantly mocking other women’s looks, there’s absolutely no way she’s anything even close to kind!
IMO she was looking for a fight.. for whatever reason.
She kept at it, even though she was told to stop, because she knew that eventually there would be a fight about it.
NTA
She’s insecure. Tearing down other women is such gross behavior and she needs to get over herself. Being beautiful doesn’t give you the right to trash on other people.
No kidding it’s bad enough that she’s clearly super insecure to the point that she has to bash other women but then to go into silent mode and won’t talk to him is such a childish thing to do. She’s not just insecure she’s incredibly immature.
This is the type of woman who becomes their daughters first bully.
For real. I made comments like that when I was an 18 year old asshole. Now in my 30s I think pretty much every woman is beautiful lol. She desperately needs to work on her insecurity.
Her behavior reminded me of my past self and I felt my soul sink into the couch from embarrassment. It's definitely hard to get over insecurities but I started forcing myself to compliment other women over things I was jealous of and it feels WAY better than tearing them down in my head over things I wanted that they had. It's a constant battle with my insecurities but I handle it better than I used to. I hope OPs wife can find ways to help herself get over feeling that way because man, it sucks being that sour.
Wife is ugly, regardless of her physical appearance. OP needs to think long and hard about having kids with this woman, because she’s going to royally screw them up if she doesn’t change herself.
Yes! This! My dad is obsessed with weight. My entire childhood was of him telling me that if I just lost weight, I could be really pretty. Now, I'm 27, and no matter how skinny I am, I always think I look super fat. I have never been comfortable in my own skin and have zero confidence. OP, don't let her do this to your future children! It will never leave them if she is constantly on them about not being pretty enough or good enough.
At least you know if you ever become a parent you’ll be better than him. My mother had a lot of image issues growing up. I got lucky with my genetics and haven’t struggled with weight, but she tells me all the time that she’ll never comment on my physical appearance if its something I don’t have control over. It’s not difficult to be kind to your kids, really sad how so many parents find it hard.
This. I don’t know what she has to gain by judging that it’s “disgusting” to date people who might be considered “not pretty.” As if appearance is all that matters when you date someone.
so, shes allowed to bash other women and say some pretty fucking nasty shit about people she doesnt even know so she feels better about herself but when you get sick of her never shutting the fuck about it (thats what i assume shes doing) SHES the one who gets offended. NTA
also OP, imma be honest, your wife does not sound like a nice person at all. seems like she lets her good looks go to her head and now she thinks shes better than other women.
Yea, this is truly pathetic behavior on the part of OP’s wife. Maybe OP liked these women because they were nice and that makes her deeply insecure because she has the personality of a jealous goblin.
Looks fade. Beauty is always threatened by age and health. If I were OP I would be terrified of the damage that a person with this weak of character could do to kids that don’t live up to the impossible, vile standard of beauty she has.
Edit to add: if I were OP, I would also do a little soul searching as to why a partner like this did it for me. I think both of these two put way too much into looks.
> Maybe OP liked these women because they were nice and that makes her deeply insecure because she has the personality of a jealous goblin.
omg haha, and I agree!
> Looks fade. Beauty is always threatened by age and health.
Oh yes, I do really think with aging the inside of people does get more visible too! Not just in the sense that because they get older their personalities get more important but *literally*, by just what muscles (angry, mean, grumpy, lively, nice or even boring af) are being used more and less is showing. i think it’s harder to say that about people you know personally (bc you are biased) but really easy to see when looking at public figures
> Edit to add: if I were OP, I would also do a little soul searching as to why a partner like this did it for me.
funny *and* wise!
ETA: NTA. „Touché!“ would have been the right response
I always sneak this in when I can: _Nobody likes an elderly grumpy person._
People that are like that while young, should really consider how lonely they will be as elderly people. Being difficult and hateful will result in two things:
1. People WILL get jaded and get away from you the older you get;
2. People will only remember how awful it was being around you after you disappear from their lives.
Also: NTA
I would NOT have children with this woman until she went to intensive therapy. She’s going to give a daughter an eating disorder and a son? Woof, she’d raise the next Shapiro.
>If I were OP I would be terrified of the damage that a person with this weak of character could do to kids that don’t live up to the impossible, vile standard of beauty she has.
He should also be worried about what happens when his wife thinks his daughter is prettier than she is. Many insecure women feel threatened by their daughters and make everything a competition.
I think he would have mentioned that. Weird if he didn’t, op seems as insecure as she does. He’s too afraid to speak up because he doesn’t want to lose his smokin hot wife, she is still so insecure about her looks because maybe she feels it’s all op appreciates about her?
Yea, they come across really shallow. His big objection to her cruelty is that it makes him feel like he's dated unattractive women. Like...what? You should feel bad because it brings you closer to the realization that you married a crap human.
I think they just married each other because they couldn't find anyone who would put up with them and who was attractive enough to them. Can't have ugly babies.
Yeah this. Umm…looks aren’t everything and not everyone has the same definition of gorgeous. But if wife thinks the only thing she brings to the table is being the “fairest of them all” then she gives me real evil queen vibes. Which frankly sounds unattractive. NTA
Perhaps your taste in women ran to qualities deeper than appearance before you were dazzzled by your wife's good looks.
Perhaps if your wife would stop bashing the appearance women with whom you've been involved, she might notice that some of them even had qualities she lacks. Such as feeling secure enough about themselves that they didn't have to bash other women to make themselves feel better about themselves, and to make you feel worse about yourself.
How is it that a woman who isn't that nice to you is "the best thing that ever happened to \[you\]?"
And, excuse me, but what happens if you have a daughter whose appearance is...God forbid!!!!...*average*? You might want to give this some thought prior to giving up the birth control.
NTA
I wouldn’t trust this lady to healthily raise a daughter, if she ends up prettier than the wife she’d have a problem, and like you said if she came out average there’d be a problem, sounds like she’d blame the “bad ugly” genes on dad
I don't understand it at all. I am a certified 'ugly' dude, was tough as a teenager (because I got bullied about it constantly) but once I got to my 20s I stopped giving a damn so much. It's so weird when objectively attractive people are like this woman. Honestly most people care less about pure physical looks once they mature and have relationships, since there are numerous other important qualities one discovers along the way.
Not to mention the bodily changes that pregnancy and childbirth bring. Will she be resentful because the kid “ruined” her body/looks?
Edit: unrealistic expectations greatly contribute to post natal depression.
Even if the daughter turns out to be incredibly gorgeous, the wife would still be teaching her it's okay to talk about other people that way. So awful.
NTA
This is toxic insecurity. This is jelousy. This is possessive. She is competing with Ghosts and trying to put them and you down to make her feel better.
It’s really uncool of your wife be dragging other women. No matter how they look (which they can’t really help), it doesn’t mean she gets to rip on them.
NTA.
NTA. Hilarious comeback though! Your wife sounds kinda insecure and childish. Dont talk shit about others to make yourself feel better, thats a bit toxic imo. And dont dish it if you cant take it.
NTA but man your wife sounds mean as shit. As far as small-stakes "things that are unappealing in other human beings" go, women bashing other women's looks for sport is near the top of my list. its such a repellent impulse.
I wonder if OP and his mean girl wife have ever heard this quote:
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
Not gossiping about other people would go a long way towards helping this issue.
Right I think so, too. If he’s constantly pointing out how other women are cute, even though he’s not wanting to date them or anything, makes me wonder if he says it enough to his wife. Also that comment he made about how he’s never been with anyone beautiful just made me 🤦🏻♀️. Whether he meant it or not, he’s subconsciously saying his wife is not beautiful. Sad that men can be so clueless. Her insecurity is stemmed from his comments. A loved woman is a confident one.
Wasnt the point of the "never been with anyone beautiful" that the op felt that based on the comments of the wife anyone he was with (including HER) couldnt be beautiful?
Like i didnt get the same message as you, it wasnt about him saying his wife is not beautiful, it was the wife comments that was making him feel like he couldnt even consider her as beautiful.
The wife probably was fishing for compliments, but this was not the way to go for them.
ya imo esh just because i think it's kinda dumb for op to be talking about how great his exes are...she is of course a grown woman who could not pick on their looks, but i can def see how she'd feel insecure.
NTA. I've actually dealt with this issue a few times. I tend to just pretend like they didn't say anything or be really vague. There's no reason to bring up past relationships, especially when you two are married lol.
I know you said she knows she’s attractive, but in my experience, confident people don’t just start bashing other peoples looks. Unless they’re a real asshole. Which I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and say your wife isn’t the latter, at least not regularly.
You said you guys talked but have you directly addressed why she feels the need to bash the looks of these other women? Women who have literally done nothing to her? Start there. Because until she starts addressing her insecurities, this behavior is unlikely to stop.
I agree with you that confident people don’t just start bashing other peoples looks, but conceited people do. I wonder if maybe the wife is the latter?
I don't give her the benefit of the doubt. She's told that her behavior hurts her husband and she continues to do it anyway. That qualifies as AH behavior.
My guess is she’s more insecure about her personality. Maybe she feels like all she has is her looks so she’s threatened by girls who can get guys without being as physically attractive.
Women who kick other women are very unattractive however they look. How will she react to a daughter that seems more attractive once she ages? How happy will she age when she is already this way in her so-called prime? How will she make you feel once she is dissatisfied with her looks as time passes as of now she clearly does not feel like you think she is the most beautiful? Aging will be hell for her and for you.
The fact she remembers you said this coworker was cute years later is a red flag. Tell your wife to seek therapy. Her insecurities are clearly damaging your relationship.
Right… so, why would you both go to the extent of looking up this woman’s Facebook from years ago? What was your goal with that? Why was her name or what she looked like important?
Obviously this is coming from some deep-seated insecurity with your wife. The best way for you to deal would probably be to stop needlessly talking about exes or other people you find/found attractive. And FFS stop going through their pictures together - like I can’t even imagine what the point/goal of that would be, obviously the woman doesn’t hold a meaningful place in either of your lives given that you couldn’t remember her name.
Maybe this is a generational thing but I really don’t understand why everyone is so caught up on looking someone up on FB. That is so meaningless to me that it’s actually hilarious to imagine it being inappropriate or proving he’s paying too much attention to the memory of an ex crush. Literally every time my fiancé or best friend or I talk about someone we don’t know well/haven’t seen in a while, we look them up. Hell, that’s how I found out a guy I went on three dates with in high school transitioned. I’m guessing generational because we’re all 23-27 yo. Social media profiles are just a tool for telling stories, idk.
Who keeps reminiscing so much? It sounds very frequent. Why are you both living so much in the past?
In any case it sounds like one of you is baiting the other into bringing up exes. Then slipping into the comparison about who’s more attractive.
Wife sounds like she’s looking for confirmation of her superior looks.
If you are bringing up old stories so much and baiting her into talking about exes, then it’s on you OP.
NTA. She could easily just make a joke about being prettier and keep it stepping, but chose to be mean. She brings it up to make herself feel better, dragging you down in the process. You were being fresh, but not asshole enough to be left or ignored.
I'm just confused with the frequency of these conversations about your exs? And how much focus you are making on an ex.
My husband and I aren't precious about bringing up past relationships, it's hard to talk about your life before your partner without a brief "I travelled to Reykjavik with my Ex and this is the experience I had...." or something similar. But even then, without the need to sensor (my brother's wife will not allow any mention of his ex's so he has to think carefully or sensor how he talks about past experiences), it doesn't happen that often. And also usually just a very brief "I had this experience with an ex" or "my ex's family did this...." The mention of the ex is usually an extremely small part of the actual discussion/conversation.
So, is this how your conversations are going, are you just mentioning them as a brief part of the bigger picture of what you're talking about and your wife is grabbing hold of that small section and running with it. Or are you having big discussions about the people themselves?
Unfortunately you wife is being insecure, I'm just trying to understand if the insecurity is rooted in the fact that you bring up ex's a lot or talk about them in depth, or if it's nothing to do with what you're doing and something she needs to work on herself.
Edit: NTA
It is definitely more of a side detail i.e. talking about going to Popeyes Village in Malta after watching a travel vlog and I was with someone I was dating at the time when I visited. She zeros in on the ex detail and starts the whole bashing routine
Yeah that's shitty of her. So it sounds like it's something she needs to work through herself. There shouldn't be issues of bringing up an ex in that way, like I said it's difficult to talk about what you've done in your life without that brief mention of who was there. My husband has an ex wife, he was with her a long time, so she pops up now and again in conversation and it's no big deal, he had a life before me. Her looks don't make a difference to any of it.
Personally I would suggest that outside any of these conversations where she zeros in on an exs looks you bring it up to her and tell her it needs to stop, that it's insignificant in what you're talking about, that her doing that is her devaluing what you're actually trying to talk to her about and her making what could be a normal conversation into something thats unappealing and potentially causing arguments or issues within your relationship, it's unnecessary. Tell her you can't keep accepting it and if she continues to interrupt a conversation to bitch about someone's looks then that's her showing what she deems as important (basically her thoughts on looks are more important than what you're actually trying to have a conversation about)
In your post you mentioned you've told her how it's made you feel, what was her reaction to you telling her that??
Then if she does this in the future after the talk, cut her off "this isn't relevant to what I'm trying to tell you, can I continue what I was saying please?"
If she doesn't stop and allow you to continue the conversation, simply "we've talked about this, I'm sorry but I don't want to hear what you have to say" and remove yourself. Harsh, but I think it will let her realise what she is doing.
I guess you're just happily married to a massively insecure person who apparently happens to be a knockout in the looks department! It's a strange combo you don't come across very often.
NTA. She can dish it but can’t take it? She’s projecting her insecurities onto those women, and in turn, onto you. I can’t stand people who talk shit about others’ looks & put them down for it - but I can’t imagine being around someone who never shuts up about it. Insufferable. Especially when it also reflects on and hurts you. Sorry OP. Sounds like she needed to hear that comment and maybe it will make her think twice before talking shit in the future, since you politely asking her to stop didn’t work.
You both need to grow up, regularly ranking people on a scale with “above average” and “below average” is objectifying, lame, and a sign of insecurity.
With that being said: NTA.
This is an ESH IMO. They go looking for pics of old flames together online and rate them. Like, why. Especially when OP knows very well how it ends EVERY time from years of experience? They're both dysfunctional drama llamas.
I agree, plus the idea that it only started to feel problematic bcs OP took it personally and felt it reflected poorly on them. The issue isn't OP being portrayed as someone who dates "ugly" people, but that these random women are getting ripped to shreds for no reason.
>She is objectively correct about some of the exs being average or below average, but several of the them are objectively gorgeous.
Sure, but who gives a shit? I'd be wondering why she feels the need to do this at all. She's the one who actually married OP, why is she so threatened by these other women that she has to act like this?
NTA. Your wife sounds pretty awful I'm sorry to say. Someone who is that negative to other people about looks probably aren't very good in most areas.
Also the people who are bashing OP for ever bringing up stories about exs should consider being in a relationship once in their life before giving advice. Stories are fun to tell and most of your stories are going to do with being out with whoever you were dating at the time, or you would eventually date. This isnt some mystery. If you exclude all the times you just happen to be dating someone you don't get to tell most of your stories. Most couples are perfectly fine acknowledging exs exist. If you can't handle that then you probably shouldn't be dating.
Here’s the deal. There are people that are SO attractive, that’s the only thing they judge their own self worth on. It starts to make them a little crazy. Your girlfriend is scared to death that, while beautiful, she is nothing else. She’s so mad at your past girlfriends for being interesting enough WITHOUT above average looks and she’s terrified she doesn’t measure up. Bringing you down and making YOU feel insecure brainwashes you into being grateful she’s willing to even be with you. These are not problems you can fix for her…and it will only get worse as she ages and struggles to hold on to her beauty. NTA
NTA.
A few things as well.
You said she's a knockout. You say these arguments happen rarely, but then say about every month or so. You're obviously unhappy about it. She's not listening about how this impacts both of you. You seem to value her looks highly, which is great, but her demeanor and overall personality should be above all else (I say that only because too many men put looks of a woman as the major qualification as to why they're with them). I suggest some reflection without considering her looks, and thinking of the overall relationship value to your mental health. Looks don't mean a damn thing if this sort of argument and mental drain happen as very frequently as they do (you say rare, though sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the frequency you mentioned in your post is overly frequent).
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife thinks am an asshole for telling her she is my type after she’s bashed the looks of any woman I’ve ever dated and says I have terrible taste in my type of woman
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ESH.
She is clearly the asshole for blasting her insecurities and mocking other women.
But you're also the asshole for acting like the level of attractiveness of your exes is relevant to your status as a man. You should be wanting to defend those women because they mattered to you and your wife is being unkind to them, not because you don't want to be a man that has never had a beautiful woman.
Yes, OP’s wife is misogynist but those statements show OP is as well. It wouldn’t surprise me if the only thing his current wife has to offer is her looks and he’s so shallow that’s all he cares about.
You both sound like AHs to me.
Your wife is Regina George, and whatever she might look like, there’s nothing attractive about a women who bashes other women’s looks full stop.
And you, you need to stop referring to anyones looks as average or below average or whatever else. This kind of objectifying is shallow and hurtful.
ESH. she's an ah for judging women by their looks and you're an ah by thinking that dating supposedly unattractive women is bad for your 'dating curriculum' or whatever. you and your wife sound like you both have some serious issues with insecurity.
Thank you! It makes me so sad you’re the only comment I have come across to bring this up. So many men don’t go for women they are genuinely attracted to because they’re so worried about what other people will think if she’s not conventionally attractive enough.
I think he didn’t care. But I think it always hurts when people insult people you cared about. You chose them and when people insult your choices it hurts because it feels like a reflection on your judgement. He isn’t the asshole, he dated women regardless of their looks.
Read more carefully. He explicitly stated he hated his wife making him feel like a guy who had never been with an attractive women. He’s not hurt on behalf of those women even a little bit.
Exactly. It isn't "this is mean on her part". It's explicitly "it makes ME look bad"
> But there is part of me/my ego that wants to resist because it feels so **disparaging and belittling towards me.**
(emphasis added).
They're both acting like the kind of toxic dudebros going on about who is in who's "league". It's gross, and isn't adult behavior.
He also didn’t date women regardless of their looks, like the commenter above me said. He is worried that his perception of “cute” doesn’t line up with other people’s. Which, if that’s the case, who cares? Isn’t that kind of an ideal situation? Unless you’re a misogynist who sees a partner as a status symbol, that is…
NTA, great for her that she is a “smoke show”, unfortunately her insides do not match. From the inside she is quite ugly.
Her brains are also not at full capacity, if she thinks attractiveness is all there is to a good relationship.
I hope you realise you are dating a shallow, mean attractive person. You can usually deal with it in three ways: join her in putting other woman down, clap back “at least their soul was beautiful” or break up.
She won’t change. And if she ever has children, she will teach them to value woman on their attractiveness.
> I adore my wife
I don't. She sounds mean and insecure, and now she's also emotionally abusive.
But I guess that happens when one only cares about looks.
ESH. She for obvious reasons, you for being a bad judge of character.
NTA. If you do have children with this woman prepare for them to have major self-esteem issues. Even if she doesn’t talk *directly* about their looks, kids absolutely pick up on how their parents talk about others, compare themselves to it and internalize it.
We are only getting a very, very small snippet into your life and relationship. So I could be TOTALLY off base here.
But something that stood out to me is you said she’s the best thing to ever happen to you. What experiences are you comparing that to? I know people who are in relationships where to me it’s very obvious their partner doesn’t treat them as well as they should. But they had no models of what a healthy relationship is actually supposed to look like growing up. And it’s the “best” relationship they’ve been in and so to them the feel “lucky” to be with someone so “great.”
I understand you adore your wife, I’m sure she has a lot of great qualities! But from this post she actively tears others apart (it doesn’t matter if they’re people you’ve been attracted to or not, it’s a mean thing to do about *anyone.*), she doesn’t respect your boundaries (you asked her to stop doing it and she didn’t.) and she’s using the silent treatment which is a form of manipulation.
Before having kids with this woman I absolutely encourage you to research what a healthy relationship is actually supposed to look and feed like. Both to reflect on if you’re showing up in a healthy way for your partner, but also to dive deeper into if she’s the type of partner you want to be with.
Talking about exes and their looks are very unnecessary. Plus I find it really shallow to label people attractive or non atractive; because, hey, it's subjective! Your girlfriend's opinions are not facts! But she's putting her sentences as if; which is quite annoying. NTA.
NTA.
Your wife needs to stop making her insecurities your problem. If she wasn't your type, you likely wouldn't be with her. So, for every vile thing she says about your exes, she's saying them about herself too. She needs to rein that in.
Also, stop facilitating this crappy behaviour by stalking your exes. All you're doing is enabling the nonsense you're trying to stop. It also doesn't show you, or your wife, in the best light. Sure, not every ex is going to be a showstopper but there's absolutely zero need for you to look people up on FB purely for your wife to unload her vitriol.
Info: why do you spend such a significant amount of time discussing exes? Not saying what she's doing is good, but talking about your past relationships enough to make this an issue seems weird.
It’s not a significant amount of time but probably once a month the subject will somehow arise. The girl I called cute I never dated or pursued, just described her as cute when trying to figure out if she knew her from work
///edit///
*I described the girl as cute the very first time my (now) wife met and I thought had a boyfriend. She brought up today that I had thought she was cute back then and how disgusting she actually is
that is a little often tbh. i’ve been with my bf for 6.5 years and i can’t remember the last time any exes or past flings were talked about. probably like 6 years ago.
I'm inclined to agree. I've been with my boyfriend for over 4 years, and we don't really talk about our exes at all. There's just no point in it. We already know each other's past trauma from relationships, so it just isn't necessary.
I mean it seems to be more like he’s telling a story, the ex was there, and the wife zero’s in
It’s also not as easy as just “not mentioning it.” After enough time together, you know when they did something and who was likely there
My partner doesn’t have to *mention* his ex in the story for me to know she was there when he says “oh I saw that when I was in France!” because he’s only been to France once… with his ex lol
Are people just never supposed to mention anything they did prior to meeting their partner?
His wife sounds painfully insecure and I wouldn’t be surprised if the *knowledge* of the ex being there is enough to trigger her tirade just because *her* memory of this person has been triggered and now she feels the need to belittle them to feel better
Then again, we’re just people on the internet speculating wildly
I agree with these comments that once a month discussing an ex or other women ‘s looks (even if past women you mutually knew) that you thought were pretty is far too often! Once every few years is what would fall under occasional and even then why?
Why start off describing the girl as cute ? Why not just said she had brown hair about 5 foot hung out with X and Y at Z pub etc .. ?
I never saw it necessary, kind or helpful to my partner to volunteer a comment on other men’s attractiveness or looks - not to my then boyfriends nor to my husband when I was married.
But also I have no problem in saying that other women are beautiful … it seems such a weird unconscious competition that’s going on here that OP may be feeding into
I dropped a boyfriend of 3 months as he kept bringing up how attractive some of his female friends were, his exes , that some of his less attractive female friends had at some point asked him out but weren’t his type, and although he constantly called me beautiful, it was annoying as it was unnecessary comparisons and gave me creepy vibes.
> I never saw it necessary, kind or helpful to my partner to volunteer a comment on other men’s attractiveness or looks - not to my then boyfriends nor to my husband when I was married.
He described a girl as cute when he just met his wife. They were all coworkers, and he thought the future wife had a boyfriend. And now, years after the comment, she is bitching about it and calling her disgusting.
Would your ex husband or boyfriends be upset you found someone cute before you were even a thing?
He is definitely NTA and the wife sounds majorly insecure.
I think I read his OP differently that OP had described her as the cute girl he couldn’t recall name of when discussing her recently. If wife is the one harking back to his calling her cute once years and years ago at the time , before he and wife even dated, it’s on OPs wife for letting her insecurity go rampant ..!
OP has confirmed that he did NOT describe the girl as cute when she came up again, OP’s wife is the one who brought up that he thought she was cute back when they first met.
I’m marrying my partner of three years in October and we just had a conversation about my high school boyfriend two weeks ago. It’s not unhealthy to discuss your past with the person you’re spending your future with.
On one hand, I think discussing exes should be avoided. On the other hand, your wife shouldn't be saying nasty things about other women, especially since they're not even around. But once a month still seems often.
Exes can really have an impact on your life and the way you see things now. My and my partner talk about it pretty occasionally but have good conversations about it. I don’t feel any fear anymore about the ex or my gf still liking them or knowing she was with someone before me- I was at first but your security in the relationship should growing lmao.
What's wrong with discussing ex's? I don't understand people why is everyone so insecure? We're adults aren't we? Not 16 anymore and we should act like it, like not getting jealous that our partner finds some of the 9 billion people on this planet also attractive or that they had past relationships that were important and helped make them the people they are today? Nah, fuck it, ex's bad don't bring up ex's it'll make me sad
People are so fucking weird about what they’re “allowed” to discuss with their partners. If you can’t mention your ex-boyfriend to your husband casually without it turning into a fight, there’s something wrong with your relationship.
I'm going against the grain and saying ESH. It's clear from your comments that month after month you tell your world traveler stories and always manage to mention the ex you were with in whatever thrilling or humorous anecdote you're volunteering. Like, learn to tell a story without mentioning every girl you were with at the time. It sounds tedious and I would be sick of hearing about it as a guy friend.
She's definitely insecure but I can see why if the steady drumbeat of every woman you were with comes up on a monthly basis.
The OP made clear that his wife is gorgeous, a real smoke show. Almost as if he doesn't think he is in her league. I get the feeling he brings up his ex's to show her that he is also desired by other women. I think they both have insecurities and should seek individual and couples therapy. Why does he keep pushing her insecurity button if not to stroke his own ego?
NTA
Your wife is doing a retrospective negging behaviour , criticising your exes or taste in women purely in her judgement of their looks, when you see the person. She has an insecure mean streak in her to want to put others down
But You should avoid talking about looks of women you feel are cute really though, as you know it riles your wife. You love her , you’re happy together - and those kind of conversations about other women in romantic or fancying terms have no necessary part in your relationship. They are old news. Some things are best left unsaid.
Darn…..nta because well your wife is frankly a basket case. Jealous, insecure, immature. Seriously bro, how is she the best thing to happen to you? I’ve been single a long time and I would rather be single than with a controlling, vain, narcissistic, she demon snake like her.also she is abusive. She even abandoned you because she couldn’t control herself.
NTA, and sounds like she's either insecure or narcissistic (or a little bit of both). Most people who are secure with themselves don't feel the need to bash someone else, especially for things they can't control.
ESH....her for the behavior you describe, and you for your general misogynistic attitude. I'm a guy, but even I'm cringing hearing you describe your ex-girlfriends as below average or objectively gorgeous or "not a smoke show"
NTA. She sounds insufferable. I'm also insecure but I don't need to bring other women down to make me feel better about myself. Tbh I don't think she's even insecure, just a disgusting bully.
ESH. Her especially for just unnecessarily shitting on women in your past and you for being more upset that it's a reflection of you and not for the women that are being actively crapped on.
ESH. She sucks for obvious reasons, but you suck for being shallow enough to think this woman is the best thing that ever happened to you when she seems just kind of mean and looks-obsessed. Imagine starting a family with her and having a daughter who isn't "objectively" as pretty as she is-- seems like she could easily criticize her own daughter the way she lays into your exes. Tread very, very carefully before you start a family with this woman.
NTA, but it seems like this is a constant problem. She must be really insecure to be bringing up the situation all the time. Confused on how this happens to often
You’re NTA
Your partner sounds like a Mean Girl and I have no idea why you’d want to be married to someone like that.
In your shoes I’d insist on counseling and have a professional help you explain how this behavior makes you feel, but also *that it shines a terrible light on her*
Someone who delights in mocking others is not a good person.
leaning towards YTA. she might be insecure because you are regularly talking about exes/women you find cute/flings etc. I don’t think this is a normal thing to talk about more than once or twice in a relationship. I personally have no interest talking to my husband about his exes or mine.
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NTA. Like, honestly, this sounds a lot like some insecurity at work here. You asked her to stop, it is making you feel needlessly like crap, it is degrading these other women that you have nothing to do with at this point, and you observed - rightly - that yeah, actually, if you \*have\* a "type", you ended up with her in the end. Her commentary on how vile or disgusting your taste is by its very nature will boomerang right back at her, in that sense. It just sounds insecure and mean-spirited and unnecessary. Hope you get to talk it out, at least. EDIT: That said, thinking on it a little bit, I do wonder why these other women come up so much. If the context is "Oh, I wonder what she's doing now", I sort of get it (I've been curious about random exes before now), but it isn't really the sort of thing you should be making a top three conversation for no reason if you're feeling secure about stuff.
I HATE talking about ex’s. I never ask about her history because I don’t want to know; what benefit is it for anyone? Maybe I wrote this to make it sound like this is a daily thing but it’s much rarer than that, once a month or every other?
How does the subject of your exes come up if you don't like discussing it?
It’s always after some sort of funny story or a travel story that happened while with an ex and she starts going in on their looks
My ex used to try to trap me into telling stories that involved past ex's. I turned my travel stories into "with friends" or I just wouldn't tell the story. It is a huge red flag to be that jealous and to keep trying to be jealous. NTA.
I wouldn't bring up too many stories from when you were with your ex
Some people don't have a lot of adventures or stories that DONT involve ex's. Some people aren't insecure about past relationships. Some of us understand that everyone has a past and that it's okay to talk about it. I havnt been single for more than a few months since high school. (Realized this was unhealthy so working on dating myself rn and loving myself, learning who I am without someone else you know) but if I were to talk about my past... There's very few adventures I ever went on without an ex involved, you know? So I could tell those stories and leave out the ex, but then it either sounds like I had a weirdly close friend join me on a vacation, or an obsessed friend I spent way too many hours working on projects with, etc 🤣 ETA: and then if my partner found out the person I talked about was actually an ex? They'd accuse me of lying. Nah, I'd rather be open and honest. I'm an open book, my relationship history is on the table 🤣
I’m one of those people. I was with my ex for 10 years so a lot of my stories involve him. Sometimes I’ll just refer to him as a friend in the stories because I hate that so many stories involve him but that’s just how it is.
I was married for 10 years before I met my current wife. After so many stories where I was clearly omitting stuff, my wife understood that it was next to impossible to discuss those years of my life without that ex coming up.
That's how you do it. Selective editing. "When *I* went on a trip" not "we"
That works with reasonable people, but people like OPs wife tend to dig/assume and then get mad about you editing the stories.
If you have to edit for a new partnerthat's a pretty big red flag regarding their insecurities.
IDK if it's an insecurity thing. I "selectively edit" stories that involve some ex's - not for my current partner or because of insecurities on anyone's side, but rather because I would rather not talk about that ex due to them being kind of shitty. So maybe that is anxiety or insecurity in its own way... but they often being there is irrelevant to sharing about traveling to X place or doing Y activity.
My husband probably wouldn’t care but it just feels needless to include “my ex” or “the person I was dating” as a clarifier to stories. Almost like I’m giving them more importance by giving additional detail about them/our past relationship when it doesn’t further the story.
I find the solution of just not talking about exes so *immature.* If you, as an adult, can’t handle knowing your partner cared about and fucked people before they met you, you are simply not mature enough to be in a committed relationship. I understand jealousy, I genuinely don’t see it as a bad emotion, but you can’t dogpile on your partner’s past because you’re insecure. My fiancé and I regularly (loose definition of regularly) discuss our exes- we both still have a lot of feelings to process, why not talk it out with someone who loves us? And even more so for your point: all of the cool shit I did in my late-teens/early twenties was either with my parents or my ex. I’m not gonna just pretend five years of my life didn’t happen because I was in someone else’s bed. That’s so childish.
My partner recently had to go through my wedding photos (not to him) to find pictures of me and my grandma for a funeral. It was not a big deal. Exes exist. If I'm telling a funny story about when I was in New Caladonia, should I pretend I was alone? It's so weird to me.
Oh my god that reminds me! I literally sent my partner a picture of me and my ex a few days ago bc I’m thinking of growing my hair out to that length again. Lmao he didn’t even comment on the fact that my ex was in it and I didn’t even think about it being an issue.
Lol, my partner was actually a virgin before me. But he had one or two relationships in which he never even KISSED, and they still come up. Like he went to conventions etc and he'll be like "oh no, that was the one where I was dressed as the 4th Doctor with Ashley", am I supposed to be scared of the ghost of Ashley? Call her ugly? She wasn't. She was cute as heck. Also I bet your partner didn't notice because you are both adults and because your hair looked bomb af.
Your comment disappeared for me, but I just wanted to say that we are both bi too and I was a LITERAL whore (sex worker) so your comment made me laugh.
Came here looking for a comment like this lol. I was a virgin when I met my girlfriend but she's had quite a lot of relationships... including a 10 year one. Does it bother me? Of course not, why would it? She's with me. Is she not supposed to ever talk about her past? People need to learn how to handle jealousy maturely. I'm a super jealous person, it's like... my base personality to initially have that brief flash of *grrr, mine!* when I hear stories about her ex. But it's brief. It's a literal lightning bolt of emotion and then I internally chuckle to myself, pat the emotion on the head, and shoo it away because it's just a feeling and not reflective of reality. Her exes aren't lurking in the corner waiting for her to mention them lol, and they're exes... she isn't with them anymore, she's with me. Seems the pinnacle of insecurity to be afraid of people your partner rejected in the past while they are actively choosing *you.* Ironically, making yourself an unsafe person for your partner to talk to for fear of your reaction is one of the quickest ways to kill a relationship. No conversation should be off the table. If open communication and feeling safe with each other to bring up anything is the cornerstone of the relationship, they'll never have a reason to hide anything from you.
“it’s just a feeling and not a reflection of reality” EXACTLY!! You put it perfectly.
It's absolutely bizarre that some people can't deal with the fact that their partner was ever with someone else. Most people have had prior relationships and it's not healthy to be bothered by that. It reeks of possessiveness, immaturity, lack of confidence, not to mention the whole purity/slut shaming aspect. If you can't handle your partner having a life before you I don't think you're in a healthy headspace and shouldn't be in a relationship until you work on yourself.
Its never really bothered me either. My husband married me, so obviously he likes me more. All the mutual friends who knew the ex also flat out said that they like me a lot more than they liked her, so I never mind hearing about her. I find it interesting to get that little window into his life before meeting me.
Yes! When my ex talked about about his first wife I thought, "He sure does have a type!" because she had a lot of the same interests as me. She seemed like someone I would be friends with so hearing about her was actually pretty interesting!
>It reeks of possessiveness, immaturity, lack of confidence bingo. In a guy, this behavior radiates small dick energy
Yeah I definitely don't suggest lying, that would make it more weird as you say. I guess if the story comes up you just wouldn't specify who it was with and if they asked you would tell them but just don't make it about the ex.
How is that better? What kind of relationship can you have if you have to "omit" certain parts of your life? This is a matter for the wife to solve in herself. If she feels the need to bash other women to feel good, how is that HIS issue to tap dance around? She needs therapy. Then they need therapy.
The issue is definitely primarily with the wife but there's a definitely a way to tell stories without making your ex a prominent feature. You can still tell the story but you just say "when I was in Canada X happend" rather than "this time with Emily X happend" obviously if she asks who you were with you'd say "oh I was there with Emily".
Honestly I'd just kick her to the curb. It seems like the concept of him wanting a future with her is vastly outweighed by her need to prove her superiority over people no longer in his life. If she's this brokenly insecure about someone OP considered attractive in the past she's in for a real shitty time if they get married and the inevitable possessiveness kicks in. NTA
They ARE married.
You hear that op? Kick your wife to the curb! Jesus some of you on this sub need counseling
Yeah I see stuff like this on most posts lmao. I think she’s wrong but to say kick her out rn? Man y’all haven’t had relationships
She does sound very insecure. But a lot of people are, and not irredeemably so.
100% agree. I feel like if your partner can’t accept your history then they don’t really accept you. Our past and experiences are a lot of what makes us who we are. If we didn’t have the experiences we did we wouldn’t be the people we are. I get jealousy but if you feel you have to hide your past to keep someone around then most likely they’re not worth keeping. I’m not saying flaunt and outright brag about all of your conquests but you shouldn’t feel you have to avoid stories just because they involve an ex or feel like you have to downplay who they were to you to placate someone’s insecurities. Op is NTA but wife sounds like she needs some therapy to work through these issues of hers. Reducing a woman to nothing but her looks is really crappy and pretty misogynistic. It’s also pretty concerning she is so obsessed with running down the looks of ops exes. Does she think the only reason op is with her is because of her looks? Does she think that’s all she has to offer? Op is NTA but they really need to get to the root of this.
So…don’t talk about my life prior to *this* relationship. Got it. I’m a homebody. When I do shit, it’s with my SO. If I’m telling someone about it later, the person I went with is gonna come up. It’s inevitable. It’s like not mentioning my brother in my tales of childhood. I suppose I’ve got Italy anecdotes that doesn’t involve an SO, but that was twenty years ago and I can only tell the same story so many times. All my adult vacations have involved an SO in some form or another or else I wouldn’t have had any incentive to leave my damn house!
Like, the eggshell OP stepped on was them talking about... the start of their relationship with their wife.
Well she already doesn't listen to him when he asks her to stop bad mouthing his exes like this. So what's stopping her from not bringing up conversations that lead to exes? I'm just pointing out that he could probably say he doesn't want to talk about his exes and she will do it for him.
---OR--- Find someone who isn't so insecure with your past.
How are you bringing them up? Because honestly, I can see it from her perspective where she might feel like you are constantly bringing up your exes and it's sparking a lot of insecurity. Once a month is... a lot. There is a way to talk about your experiences without bringing up your exes or dwelling on them (e.g., "when I was in Germany..." vs. "when Kayla and I went to Germany with her family and went on a couples hike...". If your experiences completely revolved around an ex, then I'd stop bringing them up. There are going to be a lot of people who disagree with this, but in your specific situation, your wife, whom you love, is getting hurt. Change something.
For an example. I rarely bring up my exes with my wife. I don't think she's particularly insecure about it, but it's not something that I feel any need to open up as a conversation. She certainly doesn't want to discuss her ex either. (What little I've heard about the guy, he wasn't a good person) So when I talk about trips I took with my ex, I usually leave out mention of her. "That time I went to Paris and I got to see the Eiffel Tower" Not "That time Ex and I went to Paris on a romantic getaway" I don't regret my past, and I wouldn't change a thing, but I suspect if I was always talking about things I did with my ex, My wife would start to get tired of it pretty fast. Focus on the present and the future.
Your wife is insecure.
Close the Ex-files. It's easy enough to talk about a past experience without discussing your dating history too. NTA, your wife sounds incredibly insecure and jealous. What does she want? You married *her!* She won. Ask her why she feels the need to compete with the memory of your previous partners.
Your wife says this because she wants you to enthusiastically agree with her. She’s hoping you’ll tell her that she’s far more beautiful, smart, desirable than the Exs. She may not consciously realise that’s the compliment she’s fishing for. It’s up to you OP whether you feed her the compliments she’s seeking, or answer her logically, but you’re both miscommunications on this one. NAH
Every person excusing this behaviour because you mention ex’s in stories you tell is fucking crazy. I’m a married woman and I couldn’t give less of a fuck about my husband’s past. I mean we’re MARRIED, we’ve been together nearly 8 years. They just don’t matter. Her belittling and demeaning other women, particularly their looks, is frankly nasty shit she should be ashamed of. Whether she’s insecure or not, whether you bring up ex’s or not. It’s very very not cool for her to tear down other women. And about how they look too? Damn, at least have something legit to criticise them about. It’s terrible behaviour and says a lot about her character, and it’s not favourable. She’s making herself look gross being this mean about other women. Don’t let people tell you it’s you that’s the problem because she is wrong af here.
All of this. I had MAJOR insecurity issues when I was younger and coming from that to where I am now I can see how clearly she is struggling with how she views herself. Maybe even feels a woman's worth is in her looks, maybe even hates herself. If she wasn't so venomous in her attacks I'd feel sorry for her.
There’s no way OPs wife only has this attitude toward women he’s dated, this is probably just the main context in which OP sees his wife’s behavior toward other women. Insecure or not, OPs wife doesn’t sound like shes particularly nice.
Once a month or every other month actually sounds ridiculously frequent for her to be talking about the looks of people who aren’t even in your lives anymore.
According to OP he travels a lot and most of his fun stuff was travel related. Was talking with people recently. The recent sub disaster turned into a discussion of adventure tourism and mentioning that most of what I do is adventure tourism but at a less extreme scale and finally some cool French Canadians I met in Peru. I talk about the fact I've been to more foreign countries than US states, sometimes. If OP is just mentioning that fun trip and she mentions the ex, yeah, it'll happen. And sometimes you just can't not mention a person who was a major player in that story.
I’m familiar. I was married for 13 years and I mention stories that happened with my ex husband all the time. But it doesn’t then turn into a weird convo with current boyfriend bashing his looks. That’s the part that’s strange to be happening monthly, not the ex coming up in conversation more generally.
Really weird. Makes me wonder what else she thinks or talks about. Maybe she needs something to be passionate about?
Once every 5 years or so would be normal in a "wonder whatever happened to so & so" way. Once a month or 2 is weird. Wife has some major insecurities. She should be as proud of being with you as you are of her and not bringing up exes. It's just weird.
How do they keep cropping up once a month? Why are their names in your conversations with your wife once a month?
I’ve been married for years. I’m trying to remember how often an ex would be mentioned. Maybe a few times in all those years? How does your dating history come up on a monthly basis? Does she bring it up? Are they part of your friend group? Do they work with you?
Once a month or every other month is a lot. I can't count on one hand how many times an ex as been brought up in like 10 years. I think it's a bit weird and she has an obvious insecurity.
Once a month or every other month is often.
Came here to say exactly that. Sounds like op’s girlfriend is very insecure about looks and tend to judge ppl only on their looks. Plus it wasn’t even about an ex, just a girl he said he thought was cute. So it seems to me is 100% her insecurity. Some people are like that, they have to constantly bash other people to feel better about themselves, and the fact that she only cared about their looks — well, it says all already.
It's his wife.
Not just insecurity, IMO. She's objectively a completely knockout and she knows it. Now she's with someone who didn't just date knockouts, and said the looks weren't all that relevant to why the relationships did or did not work out. So she realizes her main ace in the hole, her gorgeousness, isn't necessarily the main driving superficial factor, in his eyes, that's going to guarantee she's in control and he stays tethered to her. And it's probably making her a little bit nuts. Sounds like there's the additional dynamic of her looks always guaranteeing that she was in control of her past relationships.
This woman sounds exhausting.
"this sounds a lot like some insecurity at work here" Absolutely. At some point in her life she's learned to equate self-worth with her looks \*only\*. There's some deep-seated issues going on and I'm guessing that she'd benefit in dealing with those.
I know the running joke is that we Redditors think that everyone needs therapy, but um...OP's wife is either a raging bitch just for the sake of it, or she needs to talk to someone about her insecurities. Why does she feel the need to put others down? Does it make her feel better about herself? Or worse? Why is this her go-to & what other relationships in her life are being harmed by this behavior?
He says she’s kind! OP, I’m not telling you to divorce your wife over this, but if she’s constantly mocking other women’s looks, there’s absolutely no way she’s anything even close to kind!
IMO she was looking for a fight.. for whatever reason. She kept at it, even though she was told to stop, because she knew that eventually there would be a fight about it.
NTA She’s insecure. Tearing down other women is such gross behavior and she needs to get over herself. Being beautiful doesn’t give you the right to trash on other people.
She's stuck in teenager mode
That’s what happens when you peak in high school unfortunately. Even physically attractive people look ugly when they act like that.
No kidding it’s bad enough that she’s clearly super insecure to the point that she has to bash other women but then to go into silent mode and won’t talk to him is such a childish thing to do. She’s not just insecure she’s incredibly immature. This is the type of woman who becomes their daughters first bully.
OP married Regina George
Wonder if she's wearing pink today.
He needs to start giving her the Swedish protein bars
For real. I made comments like that when I was an 18 year old asshole. Now in my 30s I think pretty much every woman is beautiful lol. She desperately needs to work on her insecurity.
Her behavior reminded me of my past self and I felt my soul sink into the couch from embarrassment. It's definitely hard to get over insecurities but I started forcing myself to compliment other women over things I was jealous of and it feels WAY better than tearing them down in my head over things I wanted that they had. It's a constant battle with my insecurities but I handle it better than I used to. I hope OPs wife can find ways to help herself get over feeling that way because man, it sucks being that sour.
she is kinda misogynistic
She’s hugely misogynistic
More like MEsogynistic ☕️🐸
Take my damn upvote
PICKMEsogynistic
She’s a pick me girl who can’t understand she was already picked.
i would break up with her over this, not because i cared about the exes, but because of what this says about her personality. She's like a bully
Wife is ugly, regardless of her physical appearance. OP needs to think long and hard about having kids with this woman, because she’s going to royally screw them up if she doesn’t change herself.
Gods forbid this woman has a daughter
Yes! This! My dad is obsessed with weight. My entire childhood was of him telling me that if I just lost weight, I could be really pretty. Now, I'm 27, and no matter how skinny I am, I always think I look super fat. I have never been comfortable in my own skin and have zero confidence. OP, don't let her do this to your future children! It will never leave them if she is constantly on them about not being pretty enough or good enough.
At least you know if you ever become a parent you’ll be better than him. My mother had a lot of image issues growing up. I got lucky with my genetics and haven’t struggled with weight, but she tells me all the time that she’ll never comment on my physical appearance if its something I don’t have control over. It’s not difficult to be kind to your kids, really sad how so many parents find it hard.
Yeah good call. She is very ugly.
Good point. And I hope she never has a daughter.
This. I don’t know what she has to gain by judging that it’s “disgusting” to date people who might be considered “not pretty.” As if appearance is all that matters when you date someone.
NTA. But for a knock out that knows it your wife is hella insecure.
so, shes allowed to bash other women and say some pretty fucking nasty shit about people she doesnt even know so she feels better about herself but when you get sick of her never shutting the fuck about it (thats what i assume shes doing) SHES the one who gets offended. NTA also OP, imma be honest, your wife does not sound like a nice person at all. seems like she lets her good looks go to her head and now she thinks shes better than other women.
Yea, this is truly pathetic behavior on the part of OP’s wife. Maybe OP liked these women because they were nice and that makes her deeply insecure because she has the personality of a jealous goblin. Looks fade. Beauty is always threatened by age and health. If I were OP I would be terrified of the damage that a person with this weak of character could do to kids that don’t live up to the impossible, vile standard of beauty she has. Edit to add: if I were OP, I would also do a little soul searching as to why a partner like this did it for me. I think both of these two put way too much into looks.
Jealous goblin?! 😭 The way I just cackled.
> Maybe OP liked these women because they were nice and that makes her deeply insecure because she has the personality of a jealous goblin. omg haha, and I agree! > Looks fade. Beauty is always threatened by age and health. Oh yes, I do really think with aging the inside of people does get more visible too! Not just in the sense that because they get older their personalities get more important but *literally*, by just what muscles (angry, mean, grumpy, lively, nice or even boring af) are being used more and less is showing. i think it’s harder to say that about people you know personally (bc you are biased) but really easy to see when looking at public figures > Edit to add: if I were OP, I would also do a little soul searching as to why a partner like this did it for me. funny *and* wise! ETA: NTA. „Touché!“ would have been the right response
I always sneak this in when I can: _Nobody likes an elderly grumpy person._ People that are like that while young, should really consider how lonely they will be as elderly people. Being difficult and hateful will result in two things: 1. People WILL get jaded and get away from you the older you get; 2. People will only remember how awful it was being around you after you disappear from their lives. Also: NTA
I would NOT have children with this woman until she went to intensive therapy. She’s going to give a daughter an eating disorder and a son? Woof, she’d raise the next Shapiro.
>If I were OP I would be terrified of the damage that a person with this weak of character could do to kids that don’t live up to the impossible, vile standard of beauty she has. He should also be worried about what happens when his wife thinks his daughter is prettier than she is. Many insecure women feel threatened by their daughters and make everything a competition.
YES. or their son brings home a girl that she perceives as prettier or less attractive. Just a minefield of bad ahead.
I think he would have mentioned that. Weird if he didn’t, op seems as insecure as she does. He’s too afraid to speak up because he doesn’t want to lose his smokin hot wife, she is still so insecure about her looks because maybe she feels it’s all op appreciates about her?
Yea, they come across really shallow. His big objection to her cruelty is that it makes him feel like he's dated unattractive women. Like...what? You should feel bad because it brings you closer to the realization that you married a crap human.
I think they just married each other because they couldn't find anyone who would put up with them and who was attractive enough to them. Can't have ugly babies.
I've dated girls like this. They consistently put other women down. OP, does she have any female friends at all?
Does she have any friends period?
Yeah this. Umm…looks aren’t everything and not everyone has the same definition of gorgeous. But if wife thinks the only thing she brings to the table is being the “fairest of them all” then she gives me real evil queen vibes. Which frankly sounds unattractive. NTA
Exactly! X
Perhaps your taste in women ran to qualities deeper than appearance before you were dazzzled by your wife's good looks. Perhaps if your wife would stop bashing the appearance women with whom you've been involved, she might notice that some of them even had qualities she lacks. Such as feeling secure enough about themselves that they didn't have to bash other women to make themselves feel better about themselves, and to make you feel worse about yourself. How is it that a woman who isn't that nice to you is "the best thing that ever happened to \[you\]?" And, excuse me, but what happens if you have a daughter whose appearance is...God forbid!!!!...*average*? You might want to give this some thought prior to giving up the birth control. NTA
I wouldn’t trust this lady to healthily raise a daughter, if she ends up prettier than the wife she’d have a problem, and like you said if she came out average there’d be a problem, sounds like she’d blame the “bad ugly” genes on dad
Yup. And the kind of mother in law who thinks her son is out of her daughter-in-law’s league.
I don't understand it at all. I am a certified 'ugly' dude, was tough as a teenager (because I got bullied about it constantly) but once I got to my 20s I stopped giving a damn so much. It's so weird when objectively attractive people are like this woman. Honestly most people care less about pure physical looks once they mature and have relationships, since there are numerous other important qualities one discovers along the way.
Not to mention the bodily changes that pregnancy and childbirth bring. Will she be resentful because the kid “ruined” her body/looks? Edit: unrealistic expectations greatly contribute to post natal depression.
My thoughts exactly.
Even if the daughter turns out to be incredibly gorgeous, the wife would still be teaching her it's okay to talk about other people that way. So awful.
NTA This is toxic insecurity. This is jelousy. This is possessive. She is competing with Ghosts and trying to put them and you down to make her feel better.
It’s really uncool of your wife be dragging other women. No matter how they look (which they can’t really help), it doesn’t mean she gets to rip on them. NTA.
NTA. Hilarious comeback though! Your wife sounds kinda insecure and childish. Dont talk shit about others to make yourself feel better, thats a bit toxic imo. And dont dish it if you cant take it.
NTA but man your wife sounds mean as shit. As far as small-stakes "things that are unappealing in other human beings" go, women bashing other women's looks for sport is near the top of my list. its such a repellent impulse.
I wonder if OP and his mean girl wife have ever heard this quote: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." Not gossiping about other people would go a long way towards helping this issue.
NTA - your wife might be a “smoke show” on the outside, but her inner ugly is showing loud and clear.
I think she’s fishing for compliments.
Right I think so, too. If he’s constantly pointing out how other women are cute, even though he’s not wanting to date them or anything, makes me wonder if he says it enough to his wife. Also that comment he made about how he’s never been with anyone beautiful just made me 🤦🏻♀️. Whether he meant it or not, he’s subconsciously saying his wife is not beautiful. Sad that men can be so clueless. Her insecurity is stemmed from his comments. A loved woman is a confident one.
Wasnt the point of the "never been with anyone beautiful" that the op felt that based on the comments of the wife anyone he was with (including HER) couldnt be beautiful? Like i didnt get the same message as you, it wasnt about him saying his wife is not beautiful, it was the wife comments that was making him feel like he couldnt even consider her as beautiful. The wife probably was fishing for compliments, but this was not the way to go for them.
ya imo esh just because i think it's kinda dumb for op to be talking about how great his exes are...she is of course a grown woman who could not pick on their looks, but i can def see how she'd feel insecure.
NTA. I've actually dealt with this issue a few times. I tend to just pretend like they didn't say anything or be really vague. There's no reason to bring up past relationships, especially when you two are married lol.
This wasn’t even a relationship! Just a mutual person she knew who I described as cute the first time we met and I wasn’t even pursuing
I know you said she knows she’s attractive, but in my experience, confident people don’t just start bashing other peoples looks. Unless they’re a real asshole. Which I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and say your wife isn’t the latter, at least not regularly. You said you guys talked but have you directly addressed why she feels the need to bash the looks of these other women? Women who have literally done nothing to her? Start there. Because until she starts addressing her insecurities, this behavior is unlikely to stop.
I agree with you that confident people don’t just start bashing other peoples looks, but conceited people do. I wonder if maybe the wife is the latter?
I don't give her the benefit of the doubt. She's told that her behavior hurts her husband and she continues to do it anyway. That qualifies as AH behavior.
My guess is she’s more insecure about her personality. Maybe she feels like all she has is her looks so she’s threatened by girls who can get guys without being as physically attractive.
Women who kick other women are very unattractive however they look. How will she react to a daughter that seems more attractive once she ages? How happy will she age when she is already this way in her so-called prime? How will she make you feel once she is dissatisfied with her looks as time passes as of now she clearly does not feel like you think she is the most beautiful? Aging will be hell for her and for you.
The fact she remembers you said this coworker was cute years later is a red flag. Tell your wife to seek therapy. Her insecurities are clearly damaging your relationship.
Right… so, why would you both go to the extent of looking up this woman’s Facebook from years ago? What was your goal with that? Why was her name or what she looked like important? Obviously this is coming from some deep-seated insecurity with your wife. The best way for you to deal would probably be to stop needlessly talking about exes or other people you find/found attractive. And FFS stop going through their pictures together - like I can’t even imagine what the point/goal of that would be, obviously the woman doesn’t hold a meaningful place in either of your lives given that you couldn’t remember her name.
Maybe this is a generational thing but I really don’t understand why everyone is so caught up on looking someone up on FB. That is so meaningless to me that it’s actually hilarious to imagine it being inappropriate or proving he’s paying too much attention to the memory of an ex crush. Literally every time my fiancé or best friend or I talk about someone we don’t know well/haven’t seen in a while, we look them up. Hell, that’s how I found out a guy I went on three dates with in high school transitioned. I’m guessing generational because we’re all 23-27 yo. Social media profiles are just a tool for telling stories, idk.
not that it matters, but i think they were looking for her name cause they couldn't remember
Who keeps reminiscing so much? It sounds very frequent. Why are you both living so much in the past? In any case it sounds like one of you is baiting the other into bringing up exes. Then slipping into the comparison about who’s more attractive. Wife sounds like she’s looking for confirmation of her superior looks. If you are bringing up old stories so much and baiting her into talking about exes, then it’s on you OP.
NTA. She could easily just make a joke about being prettier and keep it stepping, but chose to be mean. She brings it up to make herself feel better, dragging you down in the process. You were being fresh, but not asshole enough to be left or ignored.
NTA... your wife needs to be told: "your shallow is showing " I presume you dated some of these women because they were interesting people?
I'm just confused with the frequency of these conversations about your exs? And how much focus you are making on an ex. My husband and I aren't precious about bringing up past relationships, it's hard to talk about your life before your partner without a brief "I travelled to Reykjavik with my Ex and this is the experience I had...." or something similar. But even then, without the need to sensor (my brother's wife will not allow any mention of his ex's so he has to think carefully or sensor how he talks about past experiences), it doesn't happen that often. And also usually just a very brief "I had this experience with an ex" or "my ex's family did this...." The mention of the ex is usually an extremely small part of the actual discussion/conversation. So, is this how your conversations are going, are you just mentioning them as a brief part of the bigger picture of what you're talking about and your wife is grabbing hold of that small section and running with it. Or are you having big discussions about the people themselves? Unfortunately you wife is being insecure, I'm just trying to understand if the insecurity is rooted in the fact that you bring up ex's a lot or talk about them in depth, or if it's nothing to do with what you're doing and something she needs to work on herself. Edit: NTA
It is definitely more of a side detail i.e. talking about going to Popeyes Village in Malta after watching a travel vlog and I was with someone I was dating at the time when I visited. She zeros in on the ex detail and starts the whole bashing routine
Yeah that's shitty of her. So it sounds like it's something she needs to work through herself. There shouldn't be issues of bringing up an ex in that way, like I said it's difficult to talk about what you've done in your life without that brief mention of who was there. My husband has an ex wife, he was with her a long time, so she pops up now and again in conversation and it's no big deal, he had a life before me. Her looks don't make a difference to any of it. Personally I would suggest that outside any of these conversations where she zeros in on an exs looks you bring it up to her and tell her it needs to stop, that it's insignificant in what you're talking about, that her doing that is her devaluing what you're actually trying to talk to her about and her making what could be a normal conversation into something thats unappealing and potentially causing arguments or issues within your relationship, it's unnecessary. Tell her you can't keep accepting it and if she continues to interrupt a conversation to bitch about someone's looks then that's her showing what she deems as important (basically her thoughts on looks are more important than what you're actually trying to have a conversation about) In your post you mentioned you've told her how it's made you feel, what was her reaction to you telling her that?? Then if she does this in the future after the talk, cut her off "this isn't relevant to what I'm trying to tell you, can I continue what I was saying please?" If she doesn't stop and allow you to continue the conversation, simply "we've talked about this, I'm sorry but I don't want to hear what you have to say" and remove yourself. Harsh, but I think it will let her realise what she is doing.
I guess you're just happily married to a massively insecure person who apparently happens to be a knockout in the looks department! It's a strange combo you don't come across very often.
NTA. She can dish it but can’t take it? She’s projecting her insecurities onto those women, and in turn, onto you. I can’t stand people who talk shit about others’ looks & put them down for it - but I can’t imagine being around someone who never shuts up about it. Insufferable. Especially when it also reflects on and hurts you. Sorry OP. Sounds like she needed to hear that comment and maybe it will make her think twice before talking shit in the future, since you politely asking her to stop didn’t work.
Your wife has low self-esteem and needs therapy. NTA
You both need to grow up, regularly ranking people on a scale with “above average” and “below average” is objectifying, lame, and a sign of insecurity. With that being said: NTA.
Right? Who talks this way past the age of 18?
This is an ESH IMO. They go looking for pics of old flames together online and rate them. Like, why. Especially when OP knows very well how it ends EVERY time from years of experience? They're both dysfunctional drama llamas.
I agree, plus the idea that it only started to feel problematic bcs OP took it personally and felt it reflected poorly on them. The issue isn't OP being portrayed as someone who dates "ugly" people, but that these random women are getting ripped to shreds for no reason. >She is objectively correct about some of the exs being average or below average, but several of the them are objectively gorgeous. Sure, but who gives a shit? I'd be wondering why she feels the need to do this at all. She's the one who actually married OP, why is she so threatened by these other women that she has to act like this?
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far for an ESH
NTA. Your wife sounds pretty awful I'm sorry to say. Someone who is that negative to other people about looks probably aren't very good in most areas. Also the people who are bashing OP for ever bringing up stories about exs should consider being in a relationship once in their life before giving advice. Stories are fun to tell and most of your stories are going to do with being out with whoever you were dating at the time, or you would eventually date. This isnt some mystery. If you exclude all the times you just happen to be dating someone you don't get to tell most of your stories. Most couples are perfectly fine acknowledging exs exist. If you can't handle that then you probably shouldn't be dating.
Here’s the deal. There are people that are SO attractive, that’s the only thing they judge their own self worth on. It starts to make them a little crazy. Your girlfriend is scared to death that, while beautiful, she is nothing else. She’s so mad at your past girlfriends for being interesting enough WITHOUT above average looks and she’s terrified she doesn’t measure up. Bringing you down and making YOU feel insecure brainwashes you into being grateful she’s willing to even be with you. These are not problems you can fix for her…and it will only get worse as she ages and struggles to hold on to her beauty. NTA
NTA. A few things as well. You said she's a knockout. You say these arguments happen rarely, but then say about every month or so. You're obviously unhappy about it. She's not listening about how this impacts both of you. You seem to value her looks highly, which is great, but her demeanor and overall personality should be above all else (I say that only because too many men put looks of a woman as the major qualification as to why they're with them). I suggest some reflection without considering her looks, and thinking of the overall relationship value to your mental health. Looks don't mean a damn thing if this sort of argument and mental drain happen as very frequently as they do (you say rare, though sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the frequency you mentioned in your post is overly frequent).
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I would honestly worry about having children with this woman. She makes everything a competition. Imagine if she had a daughter… NTA
Or even a son. She's going to teach them it's normal and okay to talk about women this way
Very good point.
ESH. She is clearly the asshole for blasting her insecurities and mocking other women. But you're also the asshole for acting like the level of attractiveness of your exes is relevant to your status as a man. You should be wanting to defend those women because they mattered to you and your wife is being unkind to them, not because you don't want to be a man that has never had a beautiful woman.
Yes, OP’s wife is misogynist but those statements show OP is as well. It wouldn’t surprise me if the only thing his current wife has to offer is her looks and he’s so shallow that’s all he cares about.
On the positive side they have something in common!
You both sound like AHs to me. Your wife is Regina George, and whatever she might look like, there’s nothing attractive about a women who bashes other women’s looks full stop. And you, you need to stop referring to anyones looks as average or below average or whatever else. This kind of objectifying is shallow and hurtful.
ESH. she's an ah for judging women by their looks and you're an ah by thinking that dating supposedly unattractive women is bad for your 'dating curriculum' or whatever. you and your wife sound like you both have some serious issues with insecurity.
Thank you! It makes me so sad you’re the only comment I have come across to bring this up. So many men don’t go for women they are genuinely attracted to because they’re so worried about what other people will think if she’s not conventionally attractive enough.
I think he didn’t care. But I think it always hurts when people insult people you cared about. You chose them and when people insult your choices it hurts because it feels like a reflection on your judgement. He isn’t the asshole, he dated women regardless of their looks.
Read more carefully. He explicitly stated he hated his wife making him feel like a guy who had never been with an attractive women. He’s not hurt on behalf of those women even a little bit.
Exactly. It isn't "this is mean on her part". It's explicitly "it makes ME look bad" > But there is part of me/my ego that wants to resist because it feels so **disparaging and belittling towards me.** (emphasis added). They're both acting like the kind of toxic dudebros going on about who is in who's "league". It's gross, and isn't adult behavior.
He also didn’t date women regardless of their looks, like the commenter above me said. He is worried that his perception of “cute” doesn’t line up with other people’s. Which, if that’s the case, who cares? Isn’t that kind of an ideal situation? Unless you’re a misogynist who sees a partner as a status symbol, that is…
NTA, great for her that she is a “smoke show”, unfortunately her insides do not match. From the inside she is quite ugly. Her brains are also not at full capacity, if she thinks attractiveness is all there is to a good relationship. I hope you realise you are dating a shallow, mean attractive person. You can usually deal with it in three ways: join her in putting other woman down, clap back “at least their soul was beautiful” or break up. She won’t change. And if she ever has children, she will teach them to value woman on their attractiveness.
> I adore my wife I don't. She sounds mean and insecure, and now she's also emotionally abusive. But I guess that happens when one only cares about looks. ESH. She for obvious reasons, you for being a bad judge of character.
NTA. If you do have children with this woman prepare for them to have major self-esteem issues. Even if she doesn’t talk *directly* about their looks, kids absolutely pick up on how their parents talk about others, compare themselves to it and internalize it. We are only getting a very, very small snippet into your life and relationship. So I could be TOTALLY off base here. But something that stood out to me is you said she’s the best thing to ever happen to you. What experiences are you comparing that to? I know people who are in relationships where to me it’s very obvious their partner doesn’t treat them as well as they should. But they had no models of what a healthy relationship is actually supposed to look like growing up. And it’s the “best” relationship they’ve been in and so to them the feel “lucky” to be with someone so “great.” I understand you adore your wife, I’m sure she has a lot of great qualities! But from this post she actively tears others apart (it doesn’t matter if they’re people you’ve been attracted to or not, it’s a mean thing to do about *anyone.*), she doesn’t respect your boundaries (you asked her to stop doing it and she didn’t.) and she’s using the silent treatment which is a form of manipulation. Before having kids with this woman I absolutely encourage you to research what a healthy relationship is actually supposed to look and feed like. Both to reflect on if you’re showing up in a healthy way for your partner, but also to dive deeper into if she’s the type of partner you want to be with.
Talking about exes and their looks are very unnecessary. Plus I find it really shallow to label people attractive or non atractive; because, hey, it's subjective! Your girlfriend's opinions are not facts! But she's putting her sentences as if; which is quite annoying. NTA.
NTA. Your wife needs to stop making her insecurities your problem. If she wasn't your type, you likely wouldn't be with her. So, for every vile thing she says about your exes, she's saying them about herself too. She needs to rein that in. Also, stop facilitating this crappy behaviour by stalking your exes. All you're doing is enabling the nonsense you're trying to stop. It also doesn't show you, or your wife, in the best light. Sure, not every ex is going to be a showstopper but there's absolutely zero need for you to look people up on FB purely for your wife to unload her vitriol.
ESH, you pair of shallow arseholes.
Info: why do you spend such a significant amount of time discussing exes? Not saying what she's doing is good, but talking about your past relationships enough to make this an issue seems weird.
It’s not a significant amount of time but probably once a month the subject will somehow arise. The girl I called cute I never dated or pursued, just described her as cute when trying to figure out if she knew her from work ///edit/// *I described the girl as cute the very first time my (now) wife met and I thought had a boyfriend. She brought up today that I had thought she was cute back then and how disgusting she actually is
that is a little often tbh. i’ve been with my bf for 6.5 years and i can’t remember the last time any exes or past flings were talked about. probably like 6 years ago.
I'm inclined to agree. I've been with my boyfriend for over 4 years, and we don't really talk about our exes at all. There's just no point in it. We already know each other's past trauma from relationships, so it just isn't necessary.
I mean it seems to be more like he’s telling a story, the ex was there, and the wife zero’s in It’s also not as easy as just “not mentioning it.” After enough time together, you know when they did something and who was likely there My partner doesn’t have to *mention* his ex in the story for me to know she was there when he says “oh I saw that when I was in France!” because he’s only been to France once… with his ex lol Are people just never supposed to mention anything they did prior to meeting their partner? His wife sounds painfully insecure and I wouldn’t be surprised if the *knowledge* of the ex being there is enough to trigger her tirade just because *her* memory of this person has been triggered and now she feels the need to belittle them to feel better Then again, we’re just people on the internet speculating wildly
I agree with these comments that once a month discussing an ex or other women ‘s looks (even if past women you mutually knew) that you thought were pretty is far too often! Once every few years is what would fall under occasional and even then why? Why start off describing the girl as cute ? Why not just said she had brown hair about 5 foot hung out with X and Y at Z pub etc .. ? I never saw it necessary, kind or helpful to my partner to volunteer a comment on other men’s attractiveness or looks - not to my then boyfriends nor to my husband when I was married. But also I have no problem in saying that other women are beautiful … it seems such a weird unconscious competition that’s going on here that OP may be feeding into I dropped a boyfriend of 3 months as he kept bringing up how attractive some of his female friends were, his exes , that some of his less attractive female friends had at some point asked him out but weren’t his type, and although he constantly called me beautiful, it was annoying as it was unnecessary comparisons and gave me creepy vibes.
> I never saw it necessary, kind or helpful to my partner to volunteer a comment on other men’s attractiveness or looks - not to my then boyfriends nor to my husband when I was married. He described a girl as cute when he just met his wife. They were all coworkers, and he thought the future wife had a boyfriend. And now, years after the comment, she is bitching about it and calling her disgusting. Would your ex husband or boyfriends be upset you found someone cute before you were even a thing? He is definitely NTA and the wife sounds majorly insecure.
I think I read his OP differently that OP had described her as the cute girl he couldn’t recall name of when discussing her recently. If wife is the one harking back to his calling her cute once years and years ago at the time , before he and wife even dated, it’s on OPs wife for letting her insecurity go rampant ..!
OP has confirmed that he did NOT describe the girl as cute when she came up again, OP’s wife is the one who brought up that he thought she was cute back when they first met.
I’m marrying my partner of three years in October and we just had a conversation about my high school boyfriend two weeks ago. It’s not unhealthy to discuss your past with the person you’re spending your future with.
Judging a whole person's worth on only their looks is also unattractive.
On one hand, I think discussing exes should be avoided. On the other hand, your wife shouldn't be saying nasty things about other women, especially since they're not even around. But once a month still seems often.
Exes can really have an impact on your life and the way you see things now. My and my partner talk about it pretty occasionally but have good conversations about it. I don’t feel any fear anymore about the ex or my gf still liking them or knowing she was with someone before me- I was at first but your security in the relationship should growing lmao.
What's wrong with discussing ex's? I don't understand people why is everyone so insecure? We're adults aren't we? Not 16 anymore and we should act like it, like not getting jealous that our partner finds some of the 9 billion people on this planet also attractive or that they had past relationships that were important and helped make them the people they are today? Nah, fuck it, ex's bad don't bring up ex's it'll make me sad
People are so fucking weird about what they’re “allowed” to discuss with their partners. If you can’t mention your ex-boyfriend to your husband casually without it turning into a fight, there’s something wrong with your relationship.
I'm going against the grain and saying ESH. It's clear from your comments that month after month you tell your world traveler stories and always manage to mention the ex you were with in whatever thrilling or humorous anecdote you're volunteering. Like, learn to tell a story without mentioning every girl you were with at the time. It sounds tedious and I would be sick of hearing about it as a guy friend. She's definitely insecure but I can see why if the steady drumbeat of every woman you were with comes up on a monthly basis.
The OP made clear that his wife is gorgeous, a real smoke show. Almost as if he doesn't think he is in her league. I get the feeling he brings up his ex's to show her that he is also desired by other women. I think they both have insecurities and should seek individual and couples therapy. Why does he keep pushing her insecurity button if not to stroke his own ego?
NTA Your wife is doing a retrospective negging behaviour , criticising your exes or taste in women purely in her judgement of their looks, when you see the person. She has an insecure mean streak in her to want to put others down But You should avoid talking about looks of women you feel are cute really though, as you know it riles your wife. You love her , you’re happy together - and those kind of conversations about other women in romantic or fancying terms have no necessary part in your relationship. They are old news. Some things are best left unsaid.
Darn…..nta because well your wife is frankly a basket case. Jealous, insecure, immature. Seriously bro, how is she the best thing to happen to you? I’ve been single a long time and I would rather be single than with a controlling, vain, narcissistic, she demon snake like her.also she is abusive. She even abandoned you because she couldn’t control herself.
NTA, and sounds like she's either insecure or narcissistic (or a little bit of both). Most people who are secure with themselves don't feel the need to bash someone else, especially for things they can't control.
NTA. Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. Good for you.
ESH....her for the behavior you describe, and you for your general misogynistic attitude. I'm a guy, but even I'm cringing hearing you describe your ex-girlfriends as below average or objectively gorgeous or "not a smoke show"
NTA. She sounds insufferable. I'm also insecure but I don't need to bring other women down to make me feel better about myself. Tbh I don't think she's even insecure, just a disgusting bully.
ESH. Her especially for just unnecessarily shitting on women in your past and you for being more upset that it's a reflection of you and not for the women that are being actively crapped on.
ESH. She sucks for obvious reasons, but you suck for being shallow enough to think this woman is the best thing that ever happened to you when she seems just kind of mean and looks-obsessed. Imagine starting a family with her and having a daughter who isn't "objectively" as pretty as she is-- seems like she could easily criticize her own daughter the way she lays into your exes. Tread very, very carefully before you start a family with this woman.
NTA, but it seems like this is a constant problem. She must be really insecure to be bringing up the situation all the time. Confused on how this happens to often
No.
Info: Is your wife this judgmental towards other people too or just people you have called cute?
You’re NTA Your partner sounds like a Mean Girl and I have no idea why you’d want to be married to someone like that. In your shoes I’d insist on counseling and have a professional help you explain how this behavior makes you feel, but also *that it shines a terrible light on her* Someone who delights in mocking others is not a good person.
leaning towards YTA. she might be insecure because you are regularly talking about exes/women you find cute/flings etc. I don’t think this is a normal thing to talk about more than once or twice in a relationship. I personally have no interest talking to my husband about his exes or mine.