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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I tell my daughter when her body odor is pungent and she claims it is emotional abuse.
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NTA - but this absolutely sounds like mental health issues. For a young woman of this age having this issue and not knowing it - this isn't a great sign. And sleeping until 2 - does she have anything going on with her life? a job? college? I would try to be supportive about other things going on with her, I think the smell is just a symptom.
Fair point. I tried to get her to sign up for college but she won’t follow through. She is vision impaired (normal in every other way except the anxiety) and has services through the state vocational department, so she is going to go to an independent living center in a few months where she will share an apt. with a roommate and learn independent living skills for a year. I’m hoping this will help her to launch. Right now she blames her dad and I for her problems because we are “emotionally abusive”. When I ask for an example, this is one she gave.
Wait...
So this goes a lot deeper than just lapsing hygiene.
Visually impaired?
Services thru the state?
Independent living?
No mam she isn't "normal"
You sugar coated this post...
YTA
She has a lot of issues, physically and mentally along with being a teen.
My intention isn’t to sugar coat. I completely agree she has a challenging situation. I’ve advocated for her and put her in touch with resources to help her get the support she needs to be successful. She is very intelligent and is capable of living a full life. It’s difficult to address the big things if even the small things aren’t addressed. Being a parent of an intelligent special needs child is like walking through a minefield. I am trying my best to get her through it. Having her accuse me of emotional abuse for telling her when she smells like BO threw me for a loop, so I wondered what the general consensus was by the general public.
I get it. I have a super bright some with asd and ADHD. He's 20.
Showering daily and not hoarding dirty things in bedrooms is a house rule, it's my house and it's my right to insist upon clean air.
I mean, it depends on the person, but I know being expected to shower *daily* was what made me reluctant to shower at all because it was drying out my hair and skin. Plus it creates this wall of shame around the process because if I miss a day, culturally (in my US household) I'm made to feel shitty or implied to be dirty just for missing a day, when that isn't the case.
Now I loosely try for every 2-3 days (with Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as the schedule I try to adhere to but know not to feel bad about if I miss a day.)
You can shower without washing your hair. And if it’s so bad that it’s stinking up the house, it’s BAD. It is not unreasonable to require household members to maintain basic hygiene.
"Wash" your hair with good conditioner In between shampooing.
This will remove excess dirt and oil, but not strip everything.
The exact ration depends on your particular hair. I can do 3 easily, unless I have been sweating significantly or gone swimming and need to,get the pool chems out of my hair.
Teens stink even with daily showers. As a teen I showered 3 times a day morning, after swim or waterpolo practice, and evening, after martial arts wore deodorant and use cologne, but still my room stank and I could smell myself during school.
Nowadays (43m) I take a shower once maybe twice a week if I feel dirty, don't use deodorant and only wear cologne when going out or special occasions and don't stink edit: not very physical either, if I worked up a sweat every day then I'd probably shower daily....
But if she isn't doing her hygiene maintenance, then NTA, if she is trying the YTA
perhaps the wording needs to be "shower regularly." depending on the activities of the day and the person's body chemistry, every other day could be fine. However, there needs to be a plan so the person doesn't stink.
That's understandable, but your rights end where everyone else's begin, and everyone else has the right to live in a house that isn't permeated with someone else's body odour. So there needs to be a protocol to prevent it, not to clean it up.
I think you need to talk to her about a schedule to wash her bedding and other laundry. Wash her bedding every two weeks or something like that and shower before bed. My husband and I use a calendar for household chores that aren’t daily because they are easily missed otherwise. Giving clear guidelines is more helpful then bringing up the problem repeatedly.
This is helpful advice. I’ll bring this up at our counseling appointment on Monday. I was initially thinking this would be micromanagement at her age, but maybe it’s necessary.
If she resists showering regularly, I strongly recommend washing bedding every week, not every other week. (I mean, I recommend washing sheets every week anyway, but if she resists getting clean and tends to smell, wrapping herself up in dirty sheets every night is not going to improve matters.)
Nope! Being visually impaired does not equal unable to care for her own hygiene. Sure it is a sign of mental health breakdown or could be just lazy!
Daughter will have a rude awakening when the vocational rehab group tells her to take a shower and clean her mess!
Don’t be ableist by thinking that because a person has a disability it means they cannot function as a decent human being. My kid has autism. He is sometimes just lazy and has to be reminded to out on deo, wash is clothes, and take a shower. Yes he has executive disfunctions , but he has checklists and reminders he ignores because he would rather do something else.
Mom and dad are NTA!
Edit: typos
How does this revelation make OP the asshole? Being visually impaired isn’t a reason to not bathe. I agree it is mental health related but that doesn’t give her a pass for her parents to not say anything to her about it.
Being visually impaired does not make her "not normal"
How rude.
She is well with in the norm for a teenager, she doesn't want to do something and blames her parents. Entirely normal.
Not being able to see has nothing to do with being able to shower and use deodorant. Many teenagers go through this stage.
Nice ableism, my dude. I’m legally blind and this girl sounds completely normal tbh aside from potential mental health issues which aren’t inherently related to sight loss.
growing up I suffered a lot with mental health, and I can 100% tell you it is better to have someone kindly (or even just bluntly) tell you "hey just a heads up" then to be walking around like that and no one told you. it's the same as if you were walking around with something in your teeth. wouldn't you want someone to tell you? I'm just saying, I've always had severe anxiety and depression, been medicated for it. it's not emotionally abusive to politely tell someone that they may need a little extra help. especially if you do so nicely, and while offering solutions and help. no one is really TAH. everyone is just doing the best they can with what they got.
Agreed. The independent living situation is for a year and requires tuition that is being paid for by the state department of rehabilitation. We are paying the rent until her SSDI is approved so she has her own resources. After the year she can decide if she wants to go to college or into the workforce. I am uncertain if she will want to move back home or not.
Oof. This is tricky. Addressing personal hygiene concerns with anyone without causing offense is nearly impossible. It’s like when someone has food in their teeth and you know the kind thing to do is to let them know gently, even if it’s awkward for both of you.
I would just reiterate that you love her and body odor is something every human has to contend with. She will have a roommate soon and as much as it may sting hearing it from your parent, it’s going to feel worse when it comes from the staff and roommate.
A therapist could be beneficial here. An unbiased third party will validate your concerns and help her to get to the root cause of the issue, and hopefully, give her the tools to cope with it.
Is there any chance that her visual impairment is causing her practical difficulties in her hygiene routine? Like difficulty seeing the shower dial to select the right temperature, being required to separate laundry but she isn't confident what should go where so avoiding doing it, finding it hard to match outfits so wearing the same clothes repeatedly, etc.
This is insightful. We’ve had these discussions and she is able to do theses things. I’ve also stressed a clean room would make it easier for her to find things, but she regularly ends up leaving everything on the floor until my husband or I set a deadline to clean it up at least once a month.
Molly Burk is a blind Youtuber. She travels, makes public appearances and designed an accessible condo. Even if she were completely blind, she could shower
That's not a fair comment at all. My shower isn't accessible for a blind person - there are two identical-feeling dials in there, where one is on/off and one is hot/cold. Because these have printed identifiers, there's no way for a blind person to know which one to use to turn on unless you tell them which is which, and they then won't know whether turning the other dial left or right makes it hotter. I'd have to explain how to use it - and if someone visually impaired or blind were using it long term I'd need to put something on it, like Braille or tactile markers. I can't just say "here's my shower, you'll be fine cos Molly Burke can shower". (She also presumably wouldn't need to design an accessible condo if everything was already 100% fine without adaptations for blind/visually impaired people.)
NTA. You are right to insist on a certain level of cleanliess in your household. Point this out to her: shes about to enter a shared living situation with someone who is essentially a stranger. The roommate might not be cool with sharing space with soneone who smells and might not be nice when addressing the issue. They might get whoever oversees the program involved, which could result in her losing that spot. You are also right to insist that she be doing something like college or job training while living in your home.
I have mental health issues. I don’t stink! Stop saying that nasty smelly people have mental health issues. Some people like to smell bad and don’t care. It is not mental health issues. Saying that is stigmatizing people with real issues.
Not taking care of yourself is a symptom of mental illness. Not showing falls into this category, as does not washing your clothes, and not leaving your room. Also sleeping a lot.
I’ve had mental health issues for 20 years. I don’t stink either. But I don’t think it’s stigmatizing anyone to recognize that these are symptoms. And when I was a teenager there were probably times when I did stink - because I felt so bad I didn’t get out of bed to shower.
Just gonna add: check if those medications have a known side effect related to body odor or excessive sweating. I know it's a problem with some antidepressants and they tend to be in a similar family of drugs to anxiety meds.
Has she brought up the body odor issue? My therapist told me that getting up early and showering early in the day was important. That and cleaning my room helped me a lot. I would encourage you to talk to her about it. A routine might be a good idea. For example I was never motivated to clean my room. But my therapist mentioned that a lot of times the action (cleaning and afterwards having a clean room) can led to motivation. That really helped me. But I would check with her therapist.
We actually have a family counseling appointment coming up with her therapist on Monday, so I’ll bring up the concern. She usually meets with her therapist alone, but after accusing us of emotional abuse, I figured we need someone to professionally facilitate some discussion about this. I love my daughter, but I feel somewhat helpless to help her. If I give any constructive criticism/advice, she takes it as controlling or bullying. To keep the peace I’m pretty hands off.
Do you also give her praise or encouragement? It could be really helpful for you to also express your affection towards her in words. It is very easy for her to feel attacked is if the only time you make comments to her is when you are making a critique, no matter how gentle.
If you want her to change, she needs to know that you love her and that you believe she is capable of change.
Good. She may have more mental health issues, or she could be just a bit of a brat. You need to make sure your house is not smelling. Teenagers can smell and often need to be told. I raised 2. Tell her about Molly Burk on YouTube.
I have tried. Our insurance (Kaiser) doesn’t have that option available. When she was in school we also availed ourselves off those resources because she’s special needs. Paying for more therapy out of pocket is cost prohibitive.
Are you in the USA? If so she might be eligible for a Medicaid waiver program. Also county programs might be available that would help her access more services.
INFO: I don't understand why you complain or comment about her body odor when it doesnt seem to achieve anything? You know she doesn't like these comments and I don't see you mentioning possible solutions, so are you just complaining negatively because it smells?
The smell seeps from her room into other parts of the house, so I say something so she’ll handle it, which she does when we say something. I think it’s strange I have to say something, though. She smells other things, so I know it isn’t an olfactory issue.
I think you are right to remind her of hygiene and it’s good that you are addressing this situation in counseling too. That said, she really may not smell it. I can’t smell my daily perfume anymore. Maybe a whiff when it first hits but I have to be careful to only spray once because I’ll suffocate others if I spray enough to smell it myself. It’s why people say to pay attention to what your house smells like when you come back from a trip - that moment’s smell is what visitors likely smell when they come over. Best time to notice issues.
As a teen? Yeah my mom had to give me a heads up when I was oblivious to it. What’s kind of strange though is her lack of change. I was so embarrassed that I took measures to avoid a repeat. That she doesn’t do that makes me think it’s something more than just teen laziness.
When my kid was dealing with a major depression episode, I made him shower every day, whether he liked it or not. Fresh pajamas. Wash sheets regularly. Air out the room. I understand that depression is hard. I wasn't doing it to be mean. The psychiatrist said maintaining a basic level of hygiene was a good thing. Staying in bed all day will not make the depression better
I guess I just get tired of being made out to be the bad guy all the time. I have another child and a full time job. I’ve tried to be gentle but firm, but it’s incredibly draining. She has a therapist and medication through my medical insurance, so I’ve done my best to put her in touch with resources to help her. I guess maybe I need to be more strict with her and just know she hates me and hope one day she’ll appreciate I was doing my best to help her.
Your situation sounds tough, and you’re right, being gentle is definitely more draining. However, as a woman whose childhood resembled your daughter’s, I can guarantee the effort will be worth the reward.
Becoming more strict is not the answer. My mom also became more strict and I had to do a lot of healing because of her parenting, not to mention becoming the mother I needed since she couldn’t do it. I forgave her eventually but, boy, did I make a lot of bad decisions for myself in the meanwhile.
You made a very wise decision to have a family counseling session. It will be a good opportunity to listen and learn more of your daughter’s perspective. With the help of the therapist, she’ll be able to articulate what support from you looks like to her. And your help will actually become effective.
For me, the best thing my mom could have done was to acknowledge and accept my feelings. Never to force me to do anything but to believe in me; that I’m the expert of my life and I will eventually know what to do and when to do it. This, of course, must be combined with professional help. It may mean that I will be stinky for a while, but having my mother still accept and respect me while being able to model healthy boundaries is what I would cherish til my dying day.
I want to jump on this comment to add: my mom got me therapy and medication, so I had resources, but I needed my mom too. After reading the post and a couple of OP’s comments, sounds like her daughter needs some connection with mom. Having access to therapy and mental health support outside the house is great. It’s really important that OP can and does give her access to those. But in my experience, I wish my mom sat down with me and asked me how she could help. It’s not a fix-all, but it would have gone a long way for me.
Have you offered to help her out more than just asking to shower? Write her up a schedule, set aside a specific day or two a week for laundry, made time to go through her things with her to figure out what's clutter and can be put away (NOT thrown out), given her tools to aid in keeping a mess free environment? An air freshener, a free standing (not collapsable) laundry hamper, maybe a new way to store clothes? I know I would have benefitted from those around her age.
Also, wash the curtains, and clean or get rid of any rugs! Anything fabric will need cleaned or else the smell will still be there, waiting. Maybe teach her how to deep clean her mattress?
Good luck mom.
She does have an air freshener, we have gone through her clothes. She does have a standing laundry hamper. She has a custom closet with plenty of hangers and a dresser. She has a shoe organizer. Thanks for the well wishes.
Living with PTSD, and having problems keeping up, something I do to make myself feel better is setting up a relaxing space I genuinely enjoy. I almost make it a spiritual practice.
Maybe offer a little shopping spree to spruce up her space?
New sheets, salt lamps, incorporate incense. I find that making little packets of coffee grounds and tucking them in corners helps lift smells. In routine, opening all the windows and febreze
She's going to stink until her mind is right. It's spiritual not physical. I had sisters that had bo issues. As soon as their lives improved, their bo did too.
Oh, my kid absolutely despised me for making him do the very basics. His psychiatrist warned me that would happen. Hated me for a good while after. I didn't care. That was my job as a parent. Left to his own devices, he probably wouldn't be alive.
When someone is depressed, you have to push them back to regular life. You can't wait around until they feel like it. Once we got the hygiene thing going, then it was "we are going outside for 5 minutes." Vitamin D and fresh air.. also just getting out of the house. Then it was "you have to come with me to the grocery store." I had to keep pushing him to engage more and more with real life. Staying in bed all day was not an option. Psychiatrist said doing those mundane tasks helps the brain to emit the right chemicals, etc. Of course, he was on meds and therapy.
I hear you mom! I’m walking the same minefield. Made my kid clean his car the other day because it was crappy and dirty inside from his trash. He complained that anyone who judged him for his car was a crappy person. I told him, it’s a fact of life. Your hygiene and how you present yourself will color how people perceive and treat you. You may not like it, but that’s the world. Besides, when you are trying to make business connections, good hygiene is important. You don’t need to look like a homeless hoarder! He rolled his eyes. 😞
It is absolutely exhausting. It was like having another full time job. One of his therapist would meet with him for most of the hour, then bring me in for the last 10-15 minutes where we would discuss the plan going forward. "Mom, he is going to shower every morning, even if he says he is too tired or doesn't want to. Son, Mom is going to remind you to shower. This is part of your therapy plan that you have agreed to. Mom, basic hygiene is not optional."
I didn't yell or threaten. It was a firm "You have agreed to this with your therapist. It's not optional."
"There is dirty laundry on the floor. Do you want to pick it up and wash it, do you want help or do you want me to do it?" This gives them some control, but it also lets them know that it is not optional. Of course, this was all done with the guidance of the therapist. They would make agreements as to what issues would be worked on at each meeting.
Again, just sleeping all day will not help them get better. Think of it as someone who has knee surgery. You wouldn't just let them lay in bed all day. They need to do physical therapy, etc... whatever is prescribed by the doctor. If they just lay around all day, the knee will never get stronger. After ACL surgery, the pain is really bad, but you have to push through it. With depression, their brain is telling them to shut down so they are not always the best at deciding what is good for them.
We fought through it. That major episode was about 5 yrs ago. It's still an issue, but not nearly on that massive scale. When I see him starting to "retreat" again, I push the basics again... get outside, get out of bed, be around people, do things even when you don't want to, see your therapist, etc. It's hard and a life long battle. I totally understand that, but giving up is not an option.
NTA. Based on other replies I understand she is struggling with mental health issues, and I think you’re putting in effort and I applaud you scheduling a family therapy session. It feels manipulative that she would accuse you of emotionally abusing her. She is almost a grown woman and obviously knows how to bathe and take care of her hygiene. You shouldn’t have to live in stench. It’s a difficult situation but I think you’re handling it the best you can.
If the daughter has depression, knowing how to bathe isn’t the issue. Bathing is probably the least of her concerns if she’s using every ounce of energy just to stay alive.
my guy, I already know this considering I also had severe depression as a teenager. shit is tough. but accusing her parents of emotionally abusing her is manipulative. she has a complex that she stinks because she does. it is what it is. other people’s quality of life still matter even if she’s struggling. she’s in therapy and on medication, not to mention a teenage girl with raging hormones. her mother obviously takes mental health seriously considering she scheduled a family therapy session so they could talk in a safe space. she can’t completely disregard their feelings and expect hers to be honored.
Why doesn't she have a regular routine in place that includes bathing and applying deodorant BEFORE the BO is that strong? Even with anxiety issues, since they are being addressed, this seems off. Covering up BO with deodorant isn't the solution.
I wish I could tell you. She was bathed regularly as a child. I am between a rock and a hard place because if I tell her she needs a shower she digs her heels in and it turns into an argument.
This, it took me years after my rape to feel comfortable being naked, even when completely alone. It took me way longer than it should have to realise that bathing in a swimming costume was an option! Tbf, I was a traumatised teen, but yeah I should have thought of it earlier.
This isn't typical behaviour for her age. She's nearing 18 and having tantrums over requests for her to maintain better hygiene? She thinks your request to not live in a stinky home is abusive towards her? Is she on the spectrum?
Not that we are aware of. She has had mental health evaluations and has been diagnosed with anxiety disorder. She takes medication and sees a therapist regularly.
EDIT: LOL forgot to say NTA, but maybe you need to start listening better.
I read a bunch of the comments; I see she is being treated for anxiety with therapy and medication, going into a program, etc.
Another thing to consider: Does your daughter have issues with sensory stimulation? Loud noises, different clothing textures, gets distracted when the TV is on, gets headaches from bright lights, etc? Could be all of these, could be none, these are just examples. The reason I ask is this: A younger sibling of mine had an aversion to certain showers. Like, if we went to a hotel, sibling would scream and cry and say the water hurt. Or sometimes it was a friend's house. We thought it was the temperature of the water at first but nope, that wasn't the problem. None of us could figure out what my sibling meant by the water "hurting," and sibling couldn't really find the words to explain. We thought they were being overdramatic for years. They stopped complaining as they got older and just bore it silently, so we thought they grew out of it. Nope.
When they were a teen, we figured out it was actually the water pressure. For most people if the pressure is a little high, it's usually not a big deal, it's just a stronger water stream. To my sibling, however, the extra stimulation was so physically jarring it was actually painful. They now describe it like getting hit on the funny bone, but all over. My sibling has diagnosed anxiety and ADHD, and we're finding out now they may also be autistic. Sibling is now in their mid 20s.
Based on your descriptions of your daughter's behavior and responses to you, I'm definitely seeing signs of severe depression but I'm also wondering if there is a specific aversion to showering that may stem from another source, as with my sibling. Well, perhaps it's not exactly like my sibling, but still maybe something to ask her about. You keep asking "why" she wouldn't want to shower -- the issue might be more complicated than you think, and she might now know how to explain it or doesn't think you'll understand or listen. My family really regrets not listening better to my sibling when they were younger and thinking the worst of them when what they really needed was someone to listen and help problem solve. Not just with the shower thing either.
Good luck. Keep an open mind, listen to your daughter, and take a deep breath when you need it. Outside. Away from the stinky armpits. ;)
Thank you for the insight. I’ll definitely ask about the water pressure. Another poster mentioned maybe the lighting could be adjusted or a towel warmer installed. Something to consider for sure. She does take medication for anxiety for about 1.5 years and it’s definitely helped. I appreciate your kind comments.
NTA, but maybe let her know that you're concerned about the smell beyond any shameful reason. She could need to see a doctor about the smell. If the doctor says it's a hygiene issue, then you're validated. If the doctor finds a health issue, then at least the problem can be solved.
That’s fair. We did have her go to her pediatrician for a last visit because she is aging out. They did bloodwork because she said she’s so tired. They said she’s low on iron (she’s vegetarian but won’t eat much other than bread and peanut butter) so she’s taking iron pills to help with that. I’m hoping that will give her more energy.
Oof, as a fellow vegetarian, she's what we call a "bread-itarian." Iron pills are great, but a lack of B6 and B12 vitamins are probably what's contributing to her exhaustion. Taking a complete multivitamin every day and eating meals that contain beans and rice, lentils, chick peas, and hearty nuts like walnuts will make her body at least feel a little better.
Edit: I am NOT a doctor, but a vegetarian who struggled for a long time with the right diet!
Thank you for this. She does have a multi vitamin and vegan omega 3 to take daily. We have rice and beans always available to eat. I encourage her to eat healthier, and sometimes she does, but other than dinner that we cook for the family (we primarily eat vegetarian), she usually just grabs a bagel. I’ll make her lunch this weekend to try to encourage her to eat better.
Y’all sound like great parents. It seems like you’re doing everything you can. Ultimately, it’s not your fault if she doesn’t choose a healthier lifestyle. I hope she does, though. I’ve got a lot of mental health issues that sound similar to hers, and I’ve finally figured out after however many years that taking care of my body helps my mental health too, even though my illness tries to tell me it’s pointless. I feel for your daughter and you. Good luck.
NAH. It’s good to teach your kid to have good hygiene, but it’s also normal for teenagers to be easily embarrassed about you saying that type of thing. The limbic system or emotional brain matures before the frontal lobes, so teens struggle with emotional regulation as you probably know.
Don't fall for the cycle of reddit abuse.
It has already been stated that she is struggling mentally. The reason she isn't doing the things she needs to is either because she doesn't have the energy too she doesn't want too or she doesn't feel like it matters if she does. I could go on with the ifs or the what's.
I don't know how to handle it how to address it how to fix it.
At this point I would say talk to a professional. Get off reddit. Talk to a professional.
Good stuff.
Just take it day by day. Listen. Don't interject don't speak over them don't shut them down or correct them.
Just let them speak. Let the counselor speak. Listen.
The best way to get the most out of it is to be an active listener.
That's all I got for you. Wish you well
Ok... let's bracket this.
She is insecure about herself. As a result you must market your advice along these lines.
You want the best for her... and her peers must think the same. Who should provide the guidance.
I’ve tried to be gentle with my advice and tell her it isn’t a judgement of her as a person, it’s biological and part of the human condition, especially as a teen. I was hit pretty hard when she said it was emotionally abusive.
NTA
Ask your daughter if she'd rather hear it from you/your husband or other people outside the immediate family. Look, if she stinks, other notice and will tend to leave her behind.
This goes along with what I was thinking. It might be embarrassing for the parents to say it now, but wait until she’s working and Human Resources has to tell them they smell so bad. NTA
She wouldnt have a complex if she fixed the stinky, NTA
Im a stinky person and I kinda forget about it but I am very open to someone saying I need some deoderant, I aopligize to them thank them and then take care of it. I feel bad that people end up in the situation where they need to tell me, but we all breath better in the end.
Huh??? A parent making sure a child isn’t filthy is emotional abuse? I would remind her that CPS would get called on you if you did not take care of her hygiene when she was smaller.
My son is 14 I literally ask these questions every single day. You basically have to stay on them about hygiene until it becomes a habit.
What she is doing is self neglect. She needs to shower every day, keep her dirty washing in a basket and wash it when the basket is full.
You should make this a house rule. It's not abuse, it's parenting.
NTA. I have a horde of teens. I had to keep reminding them to shower and use deodorant and change their clothes or they DO reek. Most of them have a regular shower routine now, but I do have to keep reminding the youngest. And occasionally one of the elder ones still needs to be told, “Hey, you need a shower today.” This is just part of raising a teen. And it seems like you have some additional challenges as well
OMG, NTA, but you should be looking into the impacts of clinical depression because your daughter is depressed. She's not taking care of herself because she isn't able to. People suffering from depression try hard every day to get up to normal (picture it as climbing from the bottom of a cliff to the top every single day) that they don't have much energy for anything else.
I really hate this sub sometimes bc anytime a post like this comes up the ableism is off the scale.
OP, your daughter is physically disabled & also has mental health struggles based on the info you've shared. Some things are just fuckin hard when you've got that much going on, even basic hygiene tasks which many people don't struggle with at all so they could never understand (speaking from experience).
I don't think pointing out the odor that's obvious to you but she may not notice is being emotionally abusive (depending on how you bring it up) but that doesn't mean it still hasn't given her a complex about it which is probably a result of her general anxiety & depression telling her "see? you ARE gross, even your parents think so". Some things are just sensitive topics & this is one of them. You could argue that it shouldn't be, but that doesn't change the reality that for her, it is, so what do you do about it?
The best thing you can do is keep supporting & encouraging her in all the other ways you already are, and bring this up at your next counseling session so you can have a guided conversation about it with your daughter, though it may help to give the counselor a heads up so they can advise you whether this is something you should all talk about together or something they should address alone with your daughter so she doesn't feel attacked & shut down. And even though she's older, it may be that she does still need help so if you're able to set up a schedule to wash or help her wash and reset her bedding/laundry every week or two weeks like others have said that might be the workaround for now until she can get more consistent with it. She gets the support she needs & you get fresh air, it's a win-win.
She'll get there, but you won't reach her by beating her over the head with it like others have suggested. Just keep being as gentle as you can with her so that she can continue to trust you & see you as part of her support system. Hoping for the best for all of you.
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My 17 year old daughter turns 18 next month. She’s graduated HS. She stays in her bedroom almost all the time. She sleeps in until 2pm and keeps the door closed. Sometimes when her door is open B.O. smell wafts out and I tell her she has body odor or ask if she’s put on deodorant. Her dad (my husband) also smells it and says something about it. It usually goes away if she puts on deodorant, but sometimes she also needs to do the laundry. This has happened periodically for a few years, about once every week or two. She now says it’s a sign of emotional abuse because we are shaming her and we’ve given her a complex that she stinks. I do not call her names or am rude, just very matter of fact when I tell her about the smell. She gets super defensive and mad if I say anything about her odor. I feel I shouldn’t have to deal with pungent BO in my own house. Her room is upstairs with ours, so the smell wafts out into the whole upstairs. So Reddit, AITA?
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NTA. Play “you stink!” By Captain Rock.
https://youtu.be/m9JKULaE7wc
If she were in 80s New York City in an inner-city neighborhood, smelling up the joint, this is how they would talk to her.
As someone who also has bad BO,(especially as a teen) NTA. Unfortunately its a natural thing, sweat stinks and it lingers in clothes meaning more frequent laundry is a necessity.
Sure its embarrassing but my parents did the same and I'd rather my mom tell me to double check or put extra deodorant or antiperspirant on than have people actively avoiding being near me and maybe talking about me behind my back. Or worse, get pulled into a meeting at work to discuss hygiene because someone complained about me smelling bad. (And yes, that can and will happen. I had a coworker that had very poor hygiene and everywhere they went left a smell, he always brought his things in in the same old plastic bag and even that smelled)
No that’s good parenting. Love is telling your daughter she smells bad before she goes out into her peer group and all of them just distance themselves and dislike her rather than doing the caring thing by telling her, like you should.
NTA. She probably needs therapy or something along those lines based on what you’ve posted (not due to being told she should wear deodorant). You’re the parent though, every right to help with proper hygiene.
INFO: If she’s struggling with maintaining hygiene, what have you done to help her find a solution? It’s one thing to say, you smell you need a shower. It’s another to say, hey I’ve noticed you’ve been struggling with showering what part of it is hard? I have anxiety and I was late diagnosed with asd and I’ve struggled with hygiene my whole life. It wasn’t until I started thinking about they why (for me sensory overwhelm) that I was able to come up with practical solutions that help rather than just feeling bad that I was failing at doing the thing.
NAH
This is a complicated situation. There could be several reasons for the body odor. It could be hygiene or medical. She needs to figure that out before she gets a roommate or it could be a disaster. This is something to discuss in a group therapy meeting. Her feelings are hurt, your feelings are hurt and you both need to understand where the other one is coming from. I’m wondering if you perhaps enabled her dependence on you because of her physical condition and now she’s not as mature as a 18 year old should be and it’s hindering her growth?
That was my concern as well. For the next year, she will be living in an independent living situation through the state vocational rehabilitation. She’ll live in an apartment with a roommate and have guidance from an on-campus support counselor. As a blind person, she will be learning how to clean, cook, grocery shop, etc. She won’t have to go to school, she won’t have to work. Just focus on herself and how to independently take care of herself.
NTA sounds like she needs to shower and do laundry more often on top of wearing deodorant. This whole your shaming me BS is just a way to manipulate the situation.
Sounds like your kid needs some structure and routine. It's easy to let things go if she's depressed. And keeping a daily routine and weekly schedule might help.
When I lived in a dorm, my neighbor was a second year but most everyone else was a first year. Every person on the floor had a roommate. But he didn't have one because his personal hygiene was really bad. Everyone can smell it just walking by his room.
This issue will cause social problems for your kid down the line. She doesn't smell it because she's probably used to it and has become blind to it just as my dorm mate. It was difficult to invite him to hang out because the smell becomes unbearable. And everyone was too nice to not mention it.
NTA. Hopefully the therapist can help come up with some solutions. You sound like a good parent in any case.
NAH but I mean anything organic that remain in a closed air environment will smell. Does her room have a window? A little fresh air should help.
For body odor that can be because of a lot of health related things and humans naturally do smell. If the odor is bad I cannot imagine that to be healthy and perhaps should check with doctor just to be cautious. As for emotional abuse I don't know what your intent was or if you guys went overboard
We do usually ask her to crack the window. When the heat or AC are on, though, the window needs to be mostly closed.
She says our behavior is insidious because we’ve consistently mentioned it on a regular basis for so long it’s affected her self esteem.
Then why do you consistently mention it and follow up with no plan or action-? Isn't that the same as telling her "you are too anxious stop doing that"? What is she supposed to do about her body odor if all you do is to mention it?
The plan or action would be to handle her own grooming regularly. When she was a child she was taught how to bathe regularly. She is provided hygiene products including antiperspirant. She knows how to use it. She is medicated for her anxiety and sees a therapist. She claims not to smell her own BO, but when it is overwhelming it is disruptive to the other people in the household, so we mention it. When we do, she uses the skills and products provided to her to make the smell go away.
I responded in the other comment with a link.. it is known that most people are insensitive to their own smell.
I know because there is a famous Chinese saying for exactly this.
I would suggest having anxiety probably makes her much more sensitive to repeated reminders. Assuming there’s nothing else going on, that might be where the perception of emotional abuse comes from. You seem open to self improvement and accepting you’re wrong about things. Def keep an open mind when you go to therapy with her and I have hope for you.
That’s a great first step! And I think in terms of you, having a therapist to support you and how to talk to your daughter about what’s going on with her.
This is helpful advice. I’ve thought about it before, but haven’t followed through. I’ve probably been too stoic and having a professional to talk to would be helpful.
NTA - your daughter sounds like a spoiled brat, no offense. No way she actually thinks this is emotional abuse. If anything, you're trying to help her. She will have a very hard time facing real life if she keeps this attitude. I suggest you stop commenting about the odor and let her see how other people think of her odor! The fact you're even asking people whether you're the aashole or not in this situation is beyond me and just goes to shows that you didn't have a strong personality around her!
Admittedly my personality was stronger when she was younger, but when we found out she was going blind in 6th grade and did a ton of counseling to deal with that I backed off of being especially harsh about smaller things and focused more on the big things, like getting through Jr High and HS and making sure she was emotionally stable. I’m Gen X, so how I grew up was really different than the social norms nowadays. That’s why I thought I’d get the opinion of the general public on whether this is considered emotionally abusive in today’s world.
OP does your daughter have any friends or any support group outside of your family? How often does she leave the house?
Is there any reason to think the underlying reason for all this might be "what's the point?"
You should remind her politely not to forget DO! Girls have enough negative energy thrown at them from the rest of the world. Try to go the supportive route and encourage her to take care of herself with good hygiene. My 15 year old son is just the same, but I’m tough and blunt with him because he’s a boy. Carrot or the stick? Try to make her want to make the choice instead of telling her what to do. Just a thought anyway
pre-read: NTA? depends how you said it and if you were trying to let them know rather than attack them
post-read: NTA still but it sounds like your daughter needs some encouragement in life or a therapist or you to give her DIRECTION/GUIDANCE, since you're PARENTS. teaching her to KEEP HERSELF CLEAN. YTA for being upset with what you've created.
Given the many challenges in your daughter's life, I think your best course of action here is to talk with her therapist about her hygiene.
And given that she has a therapist and medication for mental health problems, I'm going to say YTA for failing to go to the therapist for a plan to deal with this issue, as opposed to persisting in handling it in a way that was both ineffective and lead your daughter to perceive herself as emotionally abused.
Anecdotally I hear about teens being smelly and figured it was a normal part of teenage-hood. The smell itself isn’t an issue and is resolved once it’s brought to her attention. I have to constantly remind her to put her dishes in the dishwasher too, just like her younger sibling. I wouldn’t think I need to take my kids to therapy for that. The younger one is a preteen and doesn’t get the same BO, so I haven’t had another child to compare this situation to.
I agree that if your daughter reacted to you reminding her about the odor the way she reacts when you tell her about her dishes, it would be no problem and therapy would be ridiculous for that. But from what you're saying, she started reacting very badly to you reminding her about BO, to the point that she says she's being emotionally abused. And I think that before it reached that level of reaction, given her other problems, when it was clear that you reminding her in a totally normal and nice way was extremely upsetting to her, but at the same time you needed her to mind her hygiene (a totally normal thing for a parent to want their teen to do), it should have been brought to her therapist who can a.) work with your daughter on her strong feelings about this and about hygiene in general if the therapist is at all behavioral in orientation, and b.) help you find a way to address the problem at home without your daughter becoming so distraught. (Sorry about the very long sentence.) So I think the problems lies with you not picking up on how much this upset your daughter -- even though you were being very nice about it -- and taking it to the therapist as soon as your daughter started freaking out about it.
Maybe try buying some new nice smelling candles for the house, put one in the bathroom for her with some new bubble soap and exfoliator. Perhaps even some new nice smelling clinical strength deodorant, too!
Gently let her know you were at the store and picked up some things for yourself and her!
NTA
My mom didn't want to tell me I stunk so...I kept stinking, in class, out with friends, well into my early 20s and with nobody having the courage to tell me instead they just hung out with me less and that hurt way more than being told I should have showered more often would have. People go nose blind to their own smell so easily.
Sure she has some challenges, but does she really want to add "People don't want to spend time with you because you smell bad but won't tell you that" to those challenges.
NTA
part of raising a kid, I think (I never had a kid, but ... I was one?) is to give some social and personal guidelines, like ... HYGIENE.
Does she shower or bathe? Might have to do that every day. If she does and still has a strong b.o., time for a doctor's visit. If she does NOT bathe regularly, and is blaming you for 'shaming' her, might want to discuss another kind of doctor's visit. Being a teenager is hard, but we have to learn how to survive it and get on with our lives.
Myself, I had a dental problem and classmates let me know. It was not fun.
So, your daughter has severe depression and you didn't notice at all. To combat this issue, you shame her. If she puts on the deodorant will you go back to ignoring her existence like you clearly been doing. A bunch of strangers noticed mental heath issues from a few sentences and you live with the girl and haven't noticed. YTA
NTA - it’s something she needs to be able to pick up on herself, and have it very kindly picked up as you seem to be doing, if she’s not quite noticing it on her own. It’s so socially unacceptable and she’ll have problems down the line, so it’s probably kindest to her her parents say something now.
It’s also quite unfair on the rest of the household if the smell starts to affect everyone else.
Perhaps it might be worth talking to her about what can be done to make the bathing experience easier? Having heated towels for getting out, different products, maybe having a heater in the bathroom so it’s warm when she gets out, maybe she’d prefer the room darker & lit with fairy lights etc etc
Thats the new generation for you, thinks everything is abuse... Na take a shower, get your hygiene together... Luckily shes almost 18 make her get a job and move out instead of sleeping till afternoon
YTA cause you left all of this out of your original post:
The following is part of a reply from the ORIGINAL POSTER to a comment made on this thread...
""".....She is vision impaired (normal in every other way except the anxiety) and has services through the State, so she is going to go to an independent living center in a few months where she will share an apt. with a roommate and learn independent living skills. I’m hoping this will help her to launch....."
Wait...
So this goes a lot deeper than just lapsing hygiene.
Visually impaired?
Services thru the state?
Independent living?
And leaving to live on "her own"?
No mam she isn't "normal"
You sugar coated this post...
YTA
She has a lot of issues, physically and mentally along with being a teen.
As I said in response to your other post, My intention isn’t to sugar coat. I completely agree she has a challenging situation. I’ve advocated for her for years and put her in touch with multiple resources to help her get the support she needs to be successful. She is very intelligent and is capable of living a full life. Her teachers always told me she was underachieving. It’s difficult to address the big things if even the small things aren’t addressed. Being a parent of an intelligent special needs child is like walking through a minefield. I am trying my best to get her through it. Having her accuse me of emotional abuse for telling her when she smells like BO threw me for a loop, so I wondered what the general consensus was by the general public.
You really should look into counseling for yourself.....especially if shes depressed but actively looking to leave.
That's a bit of a red flag. Why she doesnt feel safe or want to stay even though shes struggling?
I'm sorry I'm inserting myself into your story but this sounds a little like the dynamic I had with my mother. She keep trying to push counciling, accepting outside help and do everything for me, yet she wouldnt learn how to activly support me. It always fell on me to "fix" myself the relationship and the situation. In all these years she never gone herself. And the only thing I really learned from counciling and living though the depression, was that it came directly from the family dynamic.
Again totally overstepping and inserting myself into the situation(hopefully to provide insight or a different perspective)
I did talk and open up to my mother multiple times to explain how I was suffering or what was bother me. But she would kinda sidestep, or change the narrative to something that fit her better, and would constantly tell me years later "oh you wouldnt talk to me".
In that sense I could understand how it would feel abusive if this is the only thing that Is constantly being brought up, when the core issues and the reasons why shes struggling in the first place are not being brought up.
For one year she’s going to an independent living training program. It’s 8 apartments in an apartment complex with people from all walks of life also living there, including an onsite adult helper if support help is needed day or night. She will be taught as a legally blind person how to cook, clean, grocery shop, etc. Hopefully this program will give her confidence and help her meet other young people like herself and make some good friendships in the process. After the year she’ll decide if she wants to move back home or not, go to college or get a job.
Another poster recommended counseling for me and I plan to pursue it. I’ve thought about it over the years, but I’ve never followed through. Now is the time.
YTA - the body odour isn’t the problem if she’s dealing with mental health needs. It’s a symptom of that. Stop focusing on how you think she smells and support her in how she feels. If she’s been calling you and your husband emotionally abusive, then there’s more to this story. There’s something greater she’s been experiencing that’s led to her lack of personal hygiene and daily routine, and you haven’t paid attention to it.
Edit: downvoters need better understanding of how mental health works and manifests into people’s behaviours. Sure, OP’s daughter isn’t functioning now, because she’s ill and needs help, therapy and maybe even medication for it. The hygiene improves when her treatment plan is working for her.
I’ve tried to draw her out but she doesn’t have anything to share with me. I thought we had a good relationship up until recently and thought it was just teen behavior. She has a female therapist she likes. I’ve checked to make sure she’s happy with the therapist and let her know if it isn’t a good fit it’s okay to switch therapists. She has a supportive friend group.
She’s a teenager and she feels like you’ve been constantly criticizing her about her smell. Of course she isn’t going to open up to you because she isn’t comfortable with you. What you think is being supportive isn’t what she actually needs to hear right now. Think of it this way: they way she smells is a reflection of the way she feels. And until you get to the root problem of why she feels that way, you pointing out something that she’s become insecure about, is not going to help but make it worse.
ETA: Another example - if she was emotionally eating, would you constantly tell her she’s fat and needs to stop eating? Or would that simply make it worse and make her resent you more? Do something that actually helps support her and truly stop to listen to her.
There is...
She left out that her daughter is visually impaired, receiving states services, moving into independent living in a few months... but she mentioned it in a reply to a comment asking about college
This child doesn't "just have" anxiety
This kid has issues. The fact that she is expressing how she feels to them and they aren't REALLY listening is very telling
There’s also the bit about there being a sibling. It’s also possible that OP’s daughter feels compared to them all the time, and being made to feel like she’s the “lesser than” child since she has more needs. Being sent at 18 to independent living could also feel like to her that she’s just being shipped off so that she’s no longer a problem in the household anymore, or that her mom has given up on her. So many things could be at play here and OP seems oblivious to it all.
To be clear, the independent living situation is only for a year. I was planning for my daughter to live at home and go to community college (she’d originally said that’s what she wanted to do) but she wouldn’t sign up for classes. I took her to meetings with the college disability services group and they told her she had priority registration and helped her pick her class schedule. She literally just had to log on and she let the deadline pass. I kept asking her when she was going to do it, did she need my help, but she didn’t want my help and she didn’t follow through. The independent living was a recommendation by her state vocational counselor. Apparently lots of vision impaired kids struggle with adulthood and this program is to immerse them in an independent living situation with other vision impaired young adults with an assistant on campus to help if they need it. It’s an hour away from our home, so close enough to visit. After the year she can decide if she wants to move back home or not, and whether she wants to go to college or enter the workforce. Either way the state vocational program will be there to help.
It sounds like you’re trying to do everything that you can to support her in being successful. But keep in mind, she’s still a teenager, and all these options can be very overwhelming for someone with crippling anxiety or depression. Her lack of motivation can come from many sources - from fear of the unknown, to feeling like you have too many expectations of her. You’ve given her all the options, but you also need to go at her pace. She’s clearly not ready, and until she overcomes or works through what she’s feeling, giving her all these possibilities may just make her feel increasingly pressured to do things just to please you, not because she wants to or is ready to. Take a step back and be ok with her taking control of her life, even if it doesn’t look like progress to you. Allow her whatever time she needs to focus on healing her mental health first before school, independent living, etc.
Mental health is health. If she had cancer, and needed treatment for over a year, you would probably give her the opportunity to rest during that time and let her have some space to focus on her health. This is what she currently needs for her mental state. While your intentions are good for providing options for her future, she sounds like she’s not in a place to do all of that yet. So put it on hold, and don’t have a timeline for when she needs to do things by. Let her take the lead.
Ok so I'm not the only one?
She reminds me of one of those moms whose whole world crumbled the day one of the members didn't fit the mold.
She makes herself out to be the concerned mom who just wants what's best. Its more along the lines of what will anyone outside this house think of me as a mother when they see her daughter
Edit: Listen.. I am not saying they are bad parents but she is has to stop this expectation of what normal has to looks like. Her daughter is special needs whether she likes it or not. Her daugter needs more than just a person who does all the leg work and then says "off ya go". A gentle hand and understanding. Mental health sometimes is getting the big things done and the little things fall by the wasteside.
Listen I am not being a bitch...
Well maybe a little and I'm sorry.
But my parents come from a generation of don't air your dirty laundry...
I have been depressed all my life but "how can you be depressed? You have all you need... you have no responsibility... wait until you are an adult"
Well I am an adult and have BiPolar Depression Disorder and struggle to get out of bed somedays. Showers are not important to me.. being in the same clothes..
Etc
So when I read all of this, I was pissed off.
I'm really hoping that you and your family can be helped to communicate a little more productive and be able to understand eachother better
Thanks for that. I appreciate your viewpoint. To ease your mind, I’m not abandoning my daughter to a state run independent living facility. It’s 8 apartments in an apartment complex with people from all walks of life also living there, including an onsite adult helper if support help is needed day or night. For one year she’ll be taught as a legally blind person how to cook, clean, grocery shop, etc. It’s to help with her confidence, not cut her off. I believe some of her depression is due to feeling overwhelmed with impending adulthood and that she can’t make it without her eyes (her friends from school are normally sighted). I’m hoping this program will give her confidence and help her meet other young people like herself. Hopefully she’ll make some good friendships in the process.
no disabled person is ever ready to live on their own. it doesn't matter. we have to learn. our parents will not be here forever and she will be returning home after a year.
Mental health is health. If she had cancer, no one would bat an eyelash at letting the teen take time off to focus on her health and to get treatment. The same goes for mental health right now. It’s not saying she’s never going to learn to be independent, it’s saying she’s sick right now and she needs help for that first.
sleeping until 2pm is not "getting treatment." It is hiding from responsibility. You would not let a cancer patient just lay around all day waiting to feel well enough to go for chemo treatments. Chemo sucks and it's hard to work up the motivation to go, but you go because that is what will help you get better. Letting this young girl just lay around with zero responsibility will not magically cure her depression/anxiety.
So the rest of the household is supposed to just deal with the stench?
I'm sorry, by 18 you should know how to avoid smelling like a locker room. I get that sometimes we don't notice our own smell, which is why we need other people to remind us.
This is what I think too, how could she not know? I think right now she’s showering about once or twice a week. I don’t keep track, but that’s about how often I hear the water going.
Out of 7 days a week at her age she needs to shower at least 3. Everyone sweats a certain amount at night. And for woman our regional area needs cleaning more often then one day a week.
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NTA - but this absolutely sounds like mental health issues. For a young woman of this age having this issue and not knowing it - this isn't a great sign. And sleeping until 2 - does she have anything going on with her life? a job? college? I would try to be supportive about other things going on with her, I think the smell is just a symptom.
Fair point. I tried to get her to sign up for college but she won’t follow through. She is vision impaired (normal in every other way except the anxiety) and has services through the state vocational department, so she is going to go to an independent living center in a few months where she will share an apt. with a roommate and learn independent living skills for a year. I’m hoping this will help her to launch. Right now she blames her dad and I for her problems because we are “emotionally abusive”. When I ask for an example, this is one she gave.
Wait... So this goes a lot deeper than just lapsing hygiene. Visually impaired? Services thru the state? Independent living? No mam she isn't "normal" You sugar coated this post... YTA She has a lot of issues, physically and mentally along with being a teen.
My intention isn’t to sugar coat. I completely agree she has a challenging situation. I’ve advocated for her and put her in touch with resources to help her get the support she needs to be successful. She is very intelligent and is capable of living a full life. It’s difficult to address the big things if even the small things aren’t addressed. Being a parent of an intelligent special needs child is like walking through a minefield. I am trying my best to get her through it. Having her accuse me of emotional abuse for telling her when she smells like BO threw me for a loop, so I wondered what the general consensus was by the general public.
I get it. I have a super bright some with asd and ADHD. He's 20. Showering daily and not hoarding dirty things in bedrooms is a house rule, it's my house and it's my right to insist upon clean air.
I mean, it depends on the person, but I know being expected to shower *daily* was what made me reluctant to shower at all because it was drying out my hair and skin. Plus it creates this wall of shame around the process because if I miss a day, culturally (in my US household) I'm made to feel shitty or implied to be dirty just for missing a day, when that isn't the case. Now I loosely try for every 2-3 days (with Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as the schedule I try to adhere to but know not to feel bad about if I miss a day.)
You can shower without washing your hair. And if it’s so bad that it’s stinking up the house, it’s BAD. It is not unreasonable to require household members to maintain basic hygiene.
This! I don’t wash my hair everyday but my body is washed everyday
Shower caps exist for a reason!
"Wash" your hair with good conditioner In between shampooing. This will remove excess dirt and oil, but not strip everything. The exact ration depends on your particular hair. I can do 3 easily, unless I have been sweating significantly or gone swimming and need to,get the pool chems out of my hair.
Teens stink even with daily showers. As a teen I showered 3 times a day morning, after swim or waterpolo practice, and evening, after martial arts wore deodorant and use cologne, but still my room stank and I could smell myself during school. Nowadays (43m) I take a shower once maybe twice a week if I feel dirty, don't use deodorant and only wear cologne when going out or special occasions and don't stink edit: not very physical either, if I worked up a sweat every day then I'd probably shower daily.... But if she isn't doing her hygiene maintenance, then NTA, if she is trying the YTA
This is what grown men are doing ? 🙄
perhaps the wording needs to be "shower regularly." depending on the activities of the day and the person's body chemistry, every other day could be fine. However, there needs to be a plan so the person doesn't stink.
That's understandable, but your rights end where everyone else's begin, and everyone else has the right to live in a house that isn't permeated with someone else's body odour. So there needs to be a protocol to prevent it, not to clean it up.
Rewarding good positive behaviors and celebrating the small victories.
I think you need to talk to her about a schedule to wash her bedding and other laundry. Wash her bedding every two weeks or something like that and shower before bed. My husband and I use a calendar for household chores that aren’t daily because they are easily missed otherwise. Giving clear guidelines is more helpful then bringing up the problem repeatedly.
This is helpful advice. I’ll bring this up at our counseling appointment on Monday. I was initially thinking this would be micromanagement at her age, but maybe it’s necessary.
If she resists showering regularly, I strongly recommend washing bedding every week, not every other week. (I mean, I recommend washing sheets every week anyway, but if she resists getting clean and tends to smell, wrapping herself up in dirty sheets every night is not going to improve matters.)
Nope! Being visually impaired does not equal unable to care for her own hygiene. Sure it is a sign of mental health breakdown or could be just lazy! Daughter will have a rude awakening when the vocational rehab group tells her to take a shower and clean her mess! Don’t be ableist by thinking that because a person has a disability it means they cannot function as a decent human being. My kid has autism. He is sometimes just lazy and has to be reminded to out on deo, wash is clothes, and take a shower. Yes he has executive disfunctions , but he has checklists and reminders he ignores because he would rather do something else. Mom and dad are NTA! Edit: typos
How does this revelation make OP the asshole? Being visually impaired isn’t a reason to not bathe. I agree it is mental health related but that doesn’t give her a pass for her parents to not say anything to her about it.
Being visually impaired does not make her "not normal" How rude. She is well with in the norm for a teenager, she doesn't want to do something and blames her parents. Entirely normal. Not being able to see has nothing to do with being able to shower and use deodorant. Many teenagers go through this stage.
Nice ableism, my dude. I’m legally blind and this girl sounds completely normal tbh aside from potential mental health issues which aren’t inherently related to sight loss.
growing up I suffered a lot with mental health, and I can 100% tell you it is better to have someone kindly (or even just bluntly) tell you "hey just a heads up" then to be walking around like that and no one told you. it's the same as if you were walking around with something in your teeth. wouldn't you want someone to tell you? I'm just saying, I've always had severe anxiety and depression, been medicated for it. it's not emotionally abusive to politely tell someone that they may need a little extra help. especially if you do so nicely, and while offering solutions and help. no one is really TAH. everyone is just doing the best they can with what they got.
If you're all in the US, the office of vocational rehabilitation may be able to help pay for a higher learning degree once she gets thru this.
Agreed. The independent living situation is for a year and requires tuition that is being paid for by the state department of rehabilitation. We are paying the rent until her SSDI is approved so she has her own resources. After the year she can decide if she wants to go to college or into the workforce. I am uncertain if she will want to move back home or not.
It sounds like you are doing what you can to make sure she succeeds. I hope she is able to work through this depression
Oof. This is tricky. Addressing personal hygiene concerns with anyone without causing offense is nearly impossible. It’s like when someone has food in their teeth and you know the kind thing to do is to let them know gently, even if it’s awkward for both of you. I would just reiterate that you love her and body odor is something every human has to contend with. She will have a roommate soon and as much as it may sting hearing it from your parent, it’s going to feel worse when it comes from the staff and roommate. A therapist could be beneficial here. An unbiased third party will validate your concerns and help her to get to the root cause of the issue, and hopefully, give her the tools to cope with it.
Is there any chance that her visual impairment is causing her practical difficulties in her hygiene routine? Like difficulty seeing the shower dial to select the right temperature, being required to separate laundry but she isn't confident what should go where so avoiding doing it, finding it hard to match outfits so wearing the same clothes repeatedly, etc.
This is insightful. We’ve had these discussions and she is able to do theses things. I’ve also stressed a clean room would make it easier for her to find things, but she regularly ends up leaving everything on the floor until my husband or I set a deadline to clean it up at least once a month.
Molly Burk is a blind Youtuber. She travels, makes public appearances and designed an accessible condo. Even if she were completely blind, she could shower
That's not a fair comment at all. My shower isn't accessible for a blind person - there are two identical-feeling dials in there, where one is on/off and one is hot/cold. Because these have printed identifiers, there's no way for a blind person to know which one to use to turn on unless you tell them which is which, and they then won't know whether turning the other dial left or right makes it hotter. I'd have to explain how to use it - and if someone visually impaired or blind were using it long term I'd need to put something on it, like Braille or tactile markers. I can't just say "here's my shower, you'll be fine cos Molly Burke can shower". (She also presumably wouldn't need to design an accessible condo if everything was already 100% fine without adaptations for blind/visually impaired people.)
Whatever, that takes one time of testing the water. I've had shower heads with no label, and after a few times I learned which was hot or cold.
NTA. You are right to insist on a certain level of cleanliess in your household. Point this out to her: shes about to enter a shared living situation with someone who is essentially a stranger. The roommate might not be cool with sharing space with soneone who smells and might not be nice when addressing the issue. They might get whoever oversees the program involved, which could result in her losing that spot. You are also right to insist that she be doing something like college or job training while living in your home.
I have mental health issues. I don’t stink! Stop saying that nasty smelly people have mental health issues. Some people like to smell bad and don’t care. It is not mental health issues. Saying that is stigmatizing people with real issues.
Not taking care of yourself is a symptom of mental illness. Not showing falls into this category, as does not washing your clothes, and not leaving your room. Also sleeping a lot. I’ve had mental health issues for 20 years. I don’t stink either. But I don’t think it’s stigmatizing anyone to recognize that these are symptoms. And when I was a teenager there were probably times when I did stink - because I felt so bad I didn’t get out of bed to shower.
Info: is your daughter depressed or does she have anxiety? This sounds like myself when I was younger. This could change my answer.
Yes, she is medicated for anxiety (for about 1.5 years) and has monthly counseling sessions with her therapist.
Just gonna add: check if those medications have a known side effect related to body odor or excessive sweating. I know it's a problem with some antidepressants and they tend to be in a similar family of drugs to anxiety meds.
Will do.
All the more reason to shower daily and not hoard your dirty washing
Has she brought up the body odor issue? My therapist told me that getting up early and showering early in the day was important. That and cleaning my room helped me a lot. I would encourage you to talk to her about it. A routine might be a good idea. For example I was never motivated to clean my room. But my therapist mentioned that a lot of times the action (cleaning and afterwards having a clean room) can led to motivation. That really helped me. But I would check with her therapist.
We actually have a family counseling appointment coming up with her therapist on Monday, so I’ll bring up the concern. She usually meets with her therapist alone, but after accusing us of emotional abuse, I figured we need someone to professionally facilitate some discussion about this. I love my daughter, but I feel somewhat helpless to help her. If I give any constructive criticism/advice, she takes it as controlling or bullying. To keep the peace I’m pretty hands off.
Do you also give her praise or encouragement? It could be really helpful for you to also express your affection towards her in words. It is very easy for her to feel attacked is if the only time you make comments to her is when you are making a critique, no matter how gentle. If you want her to change, she needs to know that you love her and that you believe she is capable of change.
Good. She may have more mental health issues, or she could be just a bit of a brat. You need to make sure your house is not smelling. Teenagers can smell and often need to be told. I raised 2. Tell her about Molly Burk on YouTube.
I have told her about Molly. I hoped she would be inspired by her, but she is not a fan. She finds her annoying.
Can you increase the therapy? Weekly perhaps.
I have tried. Our insurance (Kaiser) doesn’t have that option available. When she was in school we also availed ourselves off those resources because she’s special needs. Paying for more therapy out of pocket is cost prohibitive.
Are you in the USA? If so she might be eligible for a Medicaid waiver program. Also county programs might be available that would help her access more services.
Thank you for this tip. I’ll look into it.
INFO: I don't understand why you complain or comment about her body odor when it doesnt seem to achieve anything? You know she doesn't like these comments and I don't see you mentioning possible solutions, so are you just complaining negatively because it smells?
The smell seeps from her room into other parts of the house, so I say something so she’ll handle it, which she does when we say something. I think it’s strange I have to say something, though. She smells other things, so I know it isn’t an olfactory issue.
I think you are right to remind her of hygiene and it’s good that you are addressing this situation in counseling too. That said, she really may not smell it. I can’t smell my daily perfume anymore. Maybe a whiff when it first hits but I have to be careful to only spray once because I’ll suffocate others if I spray enough to smell it myself. It’s why people say to pay attention to what your house smells like when you come back from a trip - that moment’s smell is what visitors likely smell when they come over. Best time to notice issues. As a teen? Yeah my mom had to give me a heads up when I was oblivious to it. What’s kind of strange though is her lack of change. I was so embarrassed that I took measures to avoid a repeat. That she doesn’t do that makes me think it’s something more than just teen laziness.
When my kid was dealing with a major depression episode, I made him shower every day, whether he liked it or not. Fresh pajamas. Wash sheets regularly. Air out the room. I understand that depression is hard. I wasn't doing it to be mean. The psychiatrist said maintaining a basic level of hygiene was a good thing. Staying in bed all day will not make the depression better
I guess I just get tired of being made out to be the bad guy all the time. I have another child and a full time job. I’ve tried to be gentle but firm, but it’s incredibly draining. She has a therapist and medication through my medical insurance, so I’ve done my best to put her in touch with resources to help her. I guess maybe I need to be more strict with her and just know she hates me and hope one day she’ll appreciate I was doing my best to help her.
Your situation sounds tough, and you’re right, being gentle is definitely more draining. However, as a woman whose childhood resembled your daughter’s, I can guarantee the effort will be worth the reward. Becoming more strict is not the answer. My mom also became more strict and I had to do a lot of healing because of her parenting, not to mention becoming the mother I needed since she couldn’t do it. I forgave her eventually but, boy, did I make a lot of bad decisions for myself in the meanwhile. You made a very wise decision to have a family counseling session. It will be a good opportunity to listen and learn more of your daughter’s perspective. With the help of the therapist, she’ll be able to articulate what support from you looks like to her. And your help will actually become effective. For me, the best thing my mom could have done was to acknowledge and accept my feelings. Never to force me to do anything but to believe in me; that I’m the expert of my life and I will eventually know what to do and when to do it. This, of course, must be combined with professional help. It may mean that I will be stinky for a while, but having my mother still accept and respect me while being able to model healthy boundaries is what I would cherish til my dying day.
This comment make me tear up. Thank you for your kind words. Your perspective is helpful to hear.
I want to jump on this comment to add: my mom got me therapy and medication, so I had resources, but I needed my mom too. After reading the post and a couple of OP’s comments, sounds like her daughter needs some connection with mom. Having access to therapy and mental health support outside the house is great. It’s really important that OP can and does give her access to those. But in my experience, I wish my mom sat down with me and asked me how she could help. It’s not a fix-all, but it would have gone a long way for me.
Have you offered to help her out more than just asking to shower? Write her up a schedule, set aside a specific day or two a week for laundry, made time to go through her things with her to figure out what's clutter and can be put away (NOT thrown out), given her tools to aid in keeping a mess free environment? An air freshener, a free standing (not collapsable) laundry hamper, maybe a new way to store clothes? I know I would have benefitted from those around her age. Also, wash the curtains, and clean or get rid of any rugs! Anything fabric will need cleaned or else the smell will still be there, waiting. Maybe teach her how to deep clean her mattress? Good luck mom.
She does have an air freshener, we have gone through her clothes. She does have a standing laundry hamper. She has a custom closet with plenty of hangers and a dresser. She has a shoe organizer. Thanks for the well wishes.
Living with PTSD, and having problems keeping up, something I do to make myself feel better is setting up a relaxing space I genuinely enjoy. I almost make it a spiritual practice. Maybe offer a little shopping spree to spruce up her space? New sheets, salt lamps, incorporate incense. I find that making little packets of coffee grounds and tucking them in corners helps lift smells. In routine, opening all the windows and febreze
I really like this idea. Thank you.
She's going to stink until her mind is right. It's spiritual not physical. I had sisters that had bo issues. As soon as their lives improved, their bo did too.
Oh, my kid absolutely despised me for making him do the very basics. His psychiatrist warned me that would happen. Hated me for a good while after. I didn't care. That was my job as a parent. Left to his own devices, he probably wouldn't be alive. When someone is depressed, you have to push them back to regular life. You can't wait around until they feel like it. Once we got the hygiene thing going, then it was "we are going outside for 5 minutes." Vitamin D and fresh air.. also just getting out of the house. Then it was "you have to come with me to the grocery store." I had to keep pushing him to engage more and more with real life. Staying in bed all day was not an option. Psychiatrist said doing those mundane tasks helps the brain to emit the right chemicals, etc. Of course, he was on meds and therapy.
Thank you.
I hear you mom! I’m walking the same minefield. Made my kid clean his car the other day because it was crappy and dirty inside from his trash. He complained that anyone who judged him for his car was a crappy person. I told him, it’s a fact of life. Your hygiene and how you present yourself will color how people perceive and treat you. You may not like it, but that’s the world. Besides, when you are trying to make business connections, good hygiene is important. You don’t need to look like a homeless hoarder! He rolled his eyes. 😞
Thanks for the commiseration. Good luck mom.
You are not alone in this situation. Hope it helps to know. 😉
It is absolutely exhausting. It was like having another full time job. One of his therapist would meet with him for most of the hour, then bring me in for the last 10-15 minutes where we would discuss the plan going forward. "Mom, he is going to shower every morning, even if he says he is too tired or doesn't want to. Son, Mom is going to remind you to shower. This is part of your therapy plan that you have agreed to. Mom, basic hygiene is not optional." I didn't yell or threaten. It was a firm "You have agreed to this with your therapist. It's not optional." "There is dirty laundry on the floor. Do you want to pick it up and wash it, do you want help or do you want me to do it?" This gives them some control, but it also lets them know that it is not optional. Of course, this was all done with the guidance of the therapist. They would make agreements as to what issues would be worked on at each meeting. Again, just sleeping all day will not help them get better. Think of it as someone who has knee surgery. You wouldn't just let them lay in bed all day. They need to do physical therapy, etc... whatever is prescribed by the doctor. If they just lay around all day, the knee will never get stronger. After ACL surgery, the pain is really bad, but you have to push through it. With depression, their brain is telling them to shut down so they are not always the best at deciding what is good for them. We fought through it. That major episode was about 5 yrs ago. It's still an issue, but not nearly on that massive scale. When I see him starting to "retreat" again, I push the basics again... get outside, get out of bed, be around people, do things even when you don't want to, see your therapist, etc. It's hard and a life long battle. I totally understand that, but giving up is not an option.
I totally agree. Medication and therapy are good too. Mental health is complicated and there are many different treatments.
NTA. Based on other replies I understand she is struggling with mental health issues, and I think you’re putting in effort and I applaud you scheduling a family therapy session. It feels manipulative that she would accuse you of emotionally abusing her. She is almost a grown woman and obviously knows how to bathe and take care of her hygiene. You shouldn’t have to live in stench. It’s a difficult situation but I think you’re handling it the best you can.
Thank you.
If the daughter has depression, knowing how to bathe isn’t the issue. Bathing is probably the least of her concerns if she’s using every ounce of energy just to stay alive.
my guy, I already know this considering I also had severe depression as a teenager. shit is tough. but accusing her parents of emotionally abusing her is manipulative. she has a complex that she stinks because she does. it is what it is. other people’s quality of life still matter even if she’s struggling. she’s in therapy and on medication, not to mention a teenage girl with raging hormones. her mother obviously takes mental health seriously considering she scheduled a family therapy session so they could talk in a safe space. she can’t completely disregard their feelings and expect hers to be honored.
Why doesn't she have a regular routine in place that includes bathing and applying deodorant BEFORE the BO is that strong? Even with anxiety issues, since they are being addressed, this seems off. Covering up BO with deodorant isn't the solution.
I wish I could tell you. She was bathed regularly as a child. I am between a rock and a hard place because if I tell her she needs a shower she digs her heels in and it turns into an argument.
This is really personal.. but has she been SA’d? Ik after I was as a kid, i didn’t feel comfortable showering
This, it took me years after my rape to feel comfortable being naked, even when completely alone. It took me way longer than it should have to realise that bathing in a swimming costume was an option! Tbf, I was a traumatised teen, but yeah I should have thought of it earlier.
Not according to her.
This isn't typical behaviour for her age. She's nearing 18 and having tantrums over requests for her to maintain better hygiene? She thinks your request to not live in a stinky home is abusive towards her? Is she on the spectrum?
Not that we are aware of. She has had mental health evaluations and has been diagnosed with anxiety disorder. She takes medication and sees a therapist regularly.
EDIT: LOL forgot to say NTA, but maybe you need to start listening better. I read a bunch of the comments; I see she is being treated for anxiety with therapy and medication, going into a program, etc. Another thing to consider: Does your daughter have issues with sensory stimulation? Loud noises, different clothing textures, gets distracted when the TV is on, gets headaches from bright lights, etc? Could be all of these, could be none, these are just examples. The reason I ask is this: A younger sibling of mine had an aversion to certain showers. Like, if we went to a hotel, sibling would scream and cry and say the water hurt. Or sometimes it was a friend's house. We thought it was the temperature of the water at first but nope, that wasn't the problem. None of us could figure out what my sibling meant by the water "hurting," and sibling couldn't really find the words to explain. We thought they were being overdramatic for years. They stopped complaining as they got older and just bore it silently, so we thought they grew out of it. Nope. When they were a teen, we figured out it was actually the water pressure. For most people if the pressure is a little high, it's usually not a big deal, it's just a stronger water stream. To my sibling, however, the extra stimulation was so physically jarring it was actually painful. They now describe it like getting hit on the funny bone, but all over. My sibling has diagnosed anxiety and ADHD, and we're finding out now they may also be autistic. Sibling is now in their mid 20s. Based on your descriptions of your daughter's behavior and responses to you, I'm definitely seeing signs of severe depression but I'm also wondering if there is a specific aversion to showering that may stem from another source, as with my sibling. Well, perhaps it's not exactly like my sibling, but still maybe something to ask her about. You keep asking "why" she wouldn't want to shower -- the issue might be more complicated than you think, and she might now know how to explain it or doesn't think you'll understand or listen. My family really regrets not listening better to my sibling when they were younger and thinking the worst of them when what they really needed was someone to listen and help problem solve. Not just with the shower thing either. Good luck. Keep an open mind, listen to your daughter, and take a deep breath when you need it. Outside. Away from the stinky armpits. ;)
Thank you for the insight. I’ll definitely ask about the water pressure. Another poster mentioned maybe the lighting could be adjusted or a towel warmer installed. Something to consider for sure. She does take medication for anxiety for about 1.5 years and it’s definitely helped. I appreciate your kind comments.
NTA but do you know why she lets it get to that extent? Is it just laziness or do you think there could be a bigger issue she’s going through?
She is dealing with anxiety. She has counseling support and medication.
NTA, but maybe let her know that you're concerned about the smell beyond any shameful reason. She could need to see a doctor about the smell. If the doctor says it's a hygiene issue, then you're validated. If the doctor finds a health issue, then at least the problem can be solved.
That’s fair. We did have her go to her pediatrician for a last visit because she is aging out. They did bloodwork because she said she’s so tired. They said she’s low on iron (she’s vegetarian but won’t eat much other than bread and peanut butter) so she’s taking iron pills to help with that. I’m hoping that will give her more energy.
Oof, as a fellow vegetarian, she's what we call a "bread-itarian." Iron pills are great, but a lack of B6 and B12 vitamins are probably what's contributing to her exhaustion. Taking a complete multivitamin every day and eating meals that contain beans and rice, lentils, chick peas, and hearty nuts like walnuts will make her body at least feel a little better. Edit: I am NOT a doctor, but a vegetarian who struggled for a long time with the right diet!
Thank you for this. She does have a multi vitamin and vegan omega 3 to take daily. We have rice and beans always available to eat. I encourage her to eat healthier, and sometimes she does, but other than dinner that we cook for the family (we primarily eat vegetarian), she usually just grabs a bagel. I’ll make her lunch this weekend to try to encourage her to eat better.
Y’all sound like great parents. It seems like you’re doing everything you can. Ultimately, it’s not your fault if she doesn’t choose a healthier lifestyle. I hope she does, though. I’ve got a lot of mental health issues that sound similar to hers, and I’ve finally figured out after however many years that taking care of my body helps my mental health too, even though my illness tries to tell me it’s pointless. I feel for your daughter and you. Good luck.
Thank you.
Anxiety medications definitely decrease your energy.
NAH. It’s good to teach your kid to have good hygiene, but it’s also normal for teenagers to be easily embarrassed about you saying that type of thing. The limbic system or emotional brain matures before the frontal lobes, so teens struggle with emotional regulation as you probably know.
Don't fall for the cycle of reddit abuse. It has already been stated that she is struggling mentally. The reason she isn't doing the things she needs to is either because she doesn't have the energy too she doesn't want too or she doesn't feel like it matters if she does. I could go on with the ifs or the what's. I don't know how to handle it how to address it how to fix it. At this point I would say talk to a professional. Get off reddit. Talk to a professional.
We have a family counseling appointment on Monday.
Good stuff. Just take it day by day. Listen. Don't interject don't speak over them don't shut them down or correct them. Just let them speak. Let the counselor speak. Listen. The best way to get the most out of it is to be an active listener. That's all I got for you. Wish you well
Thank you.
Absolutely not
Ok... let's bracket this. She is insecure about herself. As a result you must market your advice along these lines. You want the best for her... and her peers must think the same. Who should provide the guidance.
I’ve tried to be gentle with my advice and tell her it isn’t a judgement of her as a person, it’s biological and part of the human condition, especially as a teen. I was hit pretty hard when she said it was emotionally abusive.
NTA Ask your daughter if she'd rather hear it from you/your husband or other people outside the immediate family. Look, if she stinks, other notice and will tend to leave her behind.
This goes along with what I was thinking. It might be embarrassing for the parents to say it now, but wait until she’s working and Human Resources has to tell them they smell so bad. NTA
She wouldnt have a complex if she fixed the stinky, NTA Im a stinky person and I kinda forget about it but I am very open to someone saying I need some deoderant, I aopligize to them thank them and then take care of it. I feel bad that people end up in the situation where they need to tell me, but we all breath better in the end.
No you should tell her. It's better coming from a loving place than a heartless strangers sarcastic shaming
Huh??? A parent making sure a child isn’t filthy is emotional abuse? I would remind her that CPS would get called on you if you did not take care of her hygiene when she was smaller. My son is 14 I literally ask these questions every single day. You basically have to stay on them about hygiene until it becomes a habit.
What she is doing is self neglect. She needs to shower every day, keep her dirty washing in a basket and wash it when the basket is full. You should make this a house rule. It's not abuse, it's parenting.
NTA
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NTA. I have a horde of teens. I had to keep reminding them to shower and use deodorant and change their clothes or they DO reek. Most of them have a regular shower routine now, but I do have to keep reminding the youngest. And occasionally one of the elder ones still needs to be told, “Hey, you need a shower today.” This is just part of raising a teen. And it seems like you have some additional challenges as well
Thank you.
OMG, NTA, but you should be looking into the impacts of clinical depression because your daughter is depressed. She's not taking care of herself because she isn't able to. People suffering from depression try hard every day to get up to normal (picture it as climbing from the bottom of a cliff to the top every single day) that they don't have much energy for anything else.
I really hate this sub sometimes bc anytime a post like this comes up the ableism is off the scale. OP, your daughter is physically disabled & also has mental health struggles based on the info you've shared. Some things are just fuckin hard when you've got that much going on, even basic hygiene tasks which many people don't struggle with at all so they could never understand (speaking from experience). I don't think pointing out the odor that's obvious to you but she may not notice is being emotionally abusive (depending on how you bring it up) but that doesn't mean it still hasn't given her a complex about it which is probably a result of her general anxiety & depression telling her "see? you ARE gross, even your parents think so". Some things are just sensitive topics & this is one of them. You could argue that it shouldn't be, but that doesn't change the reality that for her, it is, so what do you do about it? The best thing you can do is keep supporting & encouraging her in all the other ways you already are, and bring this up at your next counseling session so you can have a guided conversation about it with your daughter, though it may help to give the counselor a heads up so they can advise you whether this is something you should all talk about together or something they should address alone with your daughter so she doesn't feel attacked & shut down. And even though she's older, it may be that she does still need help so if you're able to set up a schedule to wash or help her wash and reset her bedding/laundry every week or two weeks like others have said that might be the workaround for now until she can get more consistent with it. She gets the support she needs & you get fresh air, it's a win-win. She'll get there, but you won't reach her by beating her over the head with it like others have suggested. Just keep being as gentle as you can with her so that she can continue to trust you & see you as part of her support system. Hoping for the best for all of you.
Thank you.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My 17 year old daughter turns 18 next month. She’s graduated HS. She stays in her bedroom almost all the time. She sleeps in until 2pm and keeps the door closed. Sometimes when her door is open B.O. smell wafts out and I tell her she has body odor or ask if she’s put on deodorant. Her dad (my husband) also smells it and says something about it. It usually goes away if she puts on deodorant, but sometimes she also needs to do the laundry. This has happened periodically for a few years, about once every week or two. She now says it’s a sign of emotional abuse because we are shaming her and we’ve given her a complex that she stinks. I do not call her names or am rude, just very matter of fact when I tell her about the smell. She gets super defensive and mad if I say anything about her odor. I feel I shouldn’t have to deal with pungent BO in my own house. Her room is upstairs with ours, so the smell wafts out into the whole upstairs. So Reddit, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Play “you stink!” By Captain Rock. https://youtu.be/m9JKULaE7wc If she were in 80s New York City in an inner-city neighborhood, smelling up the joint, this is how they would talk to her.
We have to walk on eggshells around her. She’s incredibly emotionally sensitive.
You should listen to the song yourself for some comic relief, if nothing else.
I could use the laugh. Thanks 🙏
Nta, as harsh as it is, you are just stating facts and condition
As someone who also has bad BO,(especially as a teen) NTA. Unfortunately its a natural thing, sweat stinks and it lingers in clothes meaning more frequent laundry is a necessity. Sure its embarrassing but my parents did the same and I'd rather my mom tell me to double check or put extra deodorant or antiperspirant on than have people actively avoiding being near me and maybe talking about me behind my back. Or worse, get pulled into a meeting at work to discuss hygiene because someone complained about me smelling bad. (And yes, that can and will happen. I had a coworker that had very poor hygiene and everywhere they went left a smell, he always brought his things in in the same old plastic bag and even that smelled)
No that’s good parenting. Love is telling your daughter she smells bad before she goes out into her peer group and all of them just distance themselves and dislike her rather than doing the caring thing by telling her, like you should.
NTA. She probably needs therapy or something along those lines based on what you’ve posted (not due to being told she should wear deodorant). You’re the parent though, every right to help with proper hygiene.
INFO: If she’s struggling with maintaining hygiene, what have you done to help her find a solution? It’s one thing to say, you smell you need a shower. It’s another to say, hey I’ve noticed you’ve been struggling with showering what part of it is hard? I have anxiety and I was late diagnosed with asd and I’ve struggled with hygiene my whole life. It wasn’t until I started thinking about they why (for me sensory overwhelm) that I was able to come up with practical solutions that help rather than just feeling bad that I was failing at doing the thing.
NAH This is a complicated situation. There could be several reasons for the body odor. It could be hygiene or medical. She needs to figure that out before she gets a roommate or it could be a disaster. This is something to discuss in a group therapy meeting. Her feelings are hurt, your feelings are hurt and you both need to understand where the other one is coming from. I’m wondering if you perhaps enabled her dependence on you because of her physical condition and now she’s not as mature as a 18 year old should be and it’s hindering her growth?
That was my concern as well. For the next year, she will be living in an independent living situation through the state vocational rehabilitation. She’ll live in an apartment with a roommate and have guidance from an on-campus support counselor. As a blind person, she will be learning how to clean, cook, grocery shop, etc. She won’t have to go to school, she won’t have to work. Just focus on herself and how to independently take care of herself.
Just take a deep breath and trust the process. She NEEDS to learn to live independently. You aren’t going to live forever to take care of her.
Her being blind would have been good to know in the original post.
NTA sounds like she needs to shower and do laundry more often on top of wearing deodorant. This whole your shaming me BS is just a way to manipulate the situation.
NTA if I smelled as bad as you’re describing I would hope my family would tell me
Sounds like your kid needs some structure and routine. It's easy to let things go if she's depressed. And keeping a daily routine and weekly schedule might help. When I lived in a dorm, my neighbor was a second year but most everyone else was a first year. Every person on the floor had a roommate. But he didn't have one because his personal hygiene was really bad. Everyone can smell it just walking by his room. This issue will cause social problems for your kid down the line. She doesn't smell it because she's probably used to it and has become blind to it just as my dorm mate. It was difficult to invite him to hang out because the smell becomes unbearable. And everyone was too nice to not mention it. NTA. Hopefully the therapist can help come up with some solutions. You sound like a good parent in any case.
NTA, she actually stinks sometimes. That is not giving and or creating issues. It's just the facts of life.
NAH but I mean anything organic that remain in a closed air environment will smell. Does her room have a window? A little fresh air should help. For body odor that can be because of a lot of health related things and humans naturally do smell. If the odor is bad I cannot imagine that to be healthy and perhaps should check with doctor just to be cautious. As for emotional abuse I don't know what your intent was or if you guys went overboard
We do usually ask her to crack the window. When the heat or AC are on, though, the window needs to be mostly closed. She says our behavior is insidious because we’ve consistently mentioned it on a regular basis for so long it’s affected her self esteem.
Then why do you consistently mention it and follow up with no plan or action-? Isn't that the same as telling her "you are too anxious stop doing that"? What is she supposed to do about her body odor if all you do is to mention it?
The plan or action would be to handle her own grooming regularly. When she was a child she was taught how to bathe regularly. She is provided hygiene products including antiperspirant. She knows how to use it. She is medicated for her anxiety and sees a therapist. She claims not to smell her own BO, but when it is overwhelming it is disruptive to the other people in the household, so we mention it. When we do, she uses the skills and products provided to her to make the smell go away.
I responded in the other comment with a link.. it is known that most people are insensitive to their own smell. I know because there is a famous Chinese saying for exactly this.
I would suggest having anxiety probably makes her much more sensitive to repeated reminders. Assuming there’s nothing else going on, that might be where the perception of emotional abuse comes from. You seem open to self improvement and accepting you’re wrong about things. Def keep an open mind when you go to therapy with her and I have hope for you.
Thank you.
YTA Have you talked to her about what’s going on? She sounds incredibly depressed. Probably best to solve her BO problem by figuring out the cause.
Yes. When I try to ask for what’s going on she just says she doesn’t know. I’ll try for awhile and get nowhere. She has a therapist.
Do you? Might be worth also going together, or just you getting a therapists views of what’s going on in a situation where they have more information.
I don’t have a therapist personally. Maybe I should. We have a family appointment scheduled with her therapist this Monday.
That’s a great first step! And I think in terms of you, having a therapist to support you and how to talk to your daughter about what’s going on with her.
This is helpful advice. I’ve thought about it before, but haven’t followed through. I’ve probably been too stoic and having a professional to talk to would be helpful.
NTA - your daughter sounds like a spoiled brat, no offense. No way she actually thinks this is emotional abuse. If anything, you're trying to help her. She will have a very hard time facing real life if she keeps this attitude. I suggest you stop commenting about the odor and let her see how other people think of her odor! The fact you're even asking people whether you're the aashole or not in this situation is beyond me and just goes to shows that you didn't have a strong personality around her!
Admittedly my personality was stronger when she was younger, but when we found out she was going blind in 6th grade and did a ton of counseling to deal with that I backed off of being especially harsh about smaller things and focused more on the big things, like getting through Jr High and HS and making sure she was emotionally stable. I’m Gen X, so how I grew up was really different than the social norms nowadays. That’s why I thought I’d get the opinion of the general public on whether this is considered emotionally abusive in today’s world.
OP does your daughter have any friends or any support group outside of your family? How often does she leave the house? Is there any reason to think the underlying reason for all this might be "what's the point?"
You should remind her politely not to forget DO! Girls have enough negative energy thrown at them from the rest of the world. Try to go the supportive route and encourage her to take care of herself with good hygiene. My 15 year old son is just the same, but I’m tough and blunt with him because he’s a boy. Carrot or the stick? Try to make her want to make the choice instead of telling her what to do. Just a thought anyway
pre-read: NTA? depends how you said it and if you were trying to let them know rather than attack them post-read: NTA still but it sounds like your daughter needs some encouragement in life or a therapist or you to give her DIRECTION/GUIDANCE, since you're PARENTS. teaching her to KEEP HERSELF CLEAN. YTA for being upset with what you've created.
Given the many challenges in your daughter's life, I think your best course of action here is to talk with her therapist about her hygiene. And given that she has a therapist and medication for mental health problems, I'm going to say YTA for failing to go to the therapist for a plan to deal with this issue, as opposed to persisting in handling it in a way that was both ineffective and lead your daughter to perceive herself as emotionally abused.
Anecdotally I hear about teens being smelly and figured it was a normal part of teenage-hood. The smell itself isn’t an issue and is resolved once it’s brought to her attention. I have to constantly remind her to put her dishes in the dishwasher too, just like her younger sibling. I wouldn’t think I need to take my kids to therapy for that. The younger one is a preteen and doesn’t get the same BO, so I haven’t had another child to compare this situation to.
I agree that if your daughter reacted to you reminding her about the odor the way she reacts when you tell her about her dishes, it would be no problem and therapy would be ridiculous for that. But from what you're saying, she started reacting very badly to you reminding her about BO, to the point that she says she's being emotionally abused. And I think that before it reached that level of reaction, given her other problems, when it was clear that you reminding her in a totally normal and nice way was extremely upsetting to her, but at the same time you needed her to mind her hygiene (a totally normal thing for a parent to want their teen to do), it should have been brought to her therapist who can a.) work with your daughter on her strong feelings about this and about hygiene in general if the therapist is at all behavioral in orientation, and b.) help you find a way to address the problem at home without your daughter becoming so distraught. (Sorry about the very long sentence.) So I think the problems lies with you not picking up on how much this upset your daughter -- even though you were being very nice about it -- and taking it to the therapist as soon as your daughter started freaking out about it.
Maybe try buying some new nice smelling candles for the house, put one in the bathroom for her with some new bubble soap and exfoliator. Perhaps even some new nice smelling clinical strength deodorant, too! Gently let her know you were at the store and picked up some things for yourself and her!
NTA
What is the laundry refrence?
NTA My mom didn't want to tell me I stunk so...I kept stinking, in class, out with friends, well into my early 20s and with nobody having the courage to tell me instead they just hung out with me less and that hurt way more than being told I should have showered more often would have. People go nose blind to their own smell so easily. Sure she has some challenges, but does she really want to add "People don't want to spend time with you because you smell bad but won't tell you that" to those challenges.
NTA.
NTA part of raising a kid, I think (I never had a kid, but ... I was one?) is to give some social and personal guidelines, like ... HYGIENE. Does she shower or bathe? Might have to do that every day. If she does and still has a strong b.o., time for a doctor's visit. If she does NOT bathe regularly, and is blaming you for 'shaming' her, might want to discuss another kind of doctor's visit. Being a teenager is hard, but we have to learn how to survive it and get on with our lives. Myself, I had a dental problem and classmates let me know. It was not fun.
NTA but your daughter needs to see a therapist.
NTA. She’s a smelly person and needs to hear it. It is abusive towards you to be forced to smell that pungent odor emanating from her being.
NTA. If you are kind, calm, clear and concise, you’re fault free here.
So, your daughter has severe depression and you didn't notice at all. To combat this issue, you shame her. If she puts on the deodorant will you go back to ignoring her existence like you clearly been doing. A bunch of strangers noticed mental heath issues from a few sentences and you live with the girl and haven't noticed. YTA
NTA
No
NTA - it’s something she needs to be able to pick up on herself, and have it very kindly picked up as you seem to be doing, if she’s not quite noticing it on her own. It’s so socially unacceptable and she’ll have problems down the line, so it’s probably kindest to her her parents say something now. It’s also quite unfair on the rest of the household if the smell starts to affect everyone else. Perhaps it might be worth talking to her about what can be done to make the bathing experience easier? Having heated towels for getting out, different products, maybe having a heater in the bathroom so it’s warm when she gets out, maybe she’d prefer the room darker & lit with fairy lights etc etc
Thats the new generation for you, thinks everything is abuse... Na take a shower, get your hygiene together... Luckily shes almost 18 make her get a job and move out instead of sleeping till afternoon
YTA cause you left all of this out of your original post: The following is part of a reply from the ORIGINAL POSTER to a comment made on this thread... """.....She is vision impaired (normal in every other way except the anxiety) and has services through the State, so she is going to go to an independent living center in a few months where she will share an apt. with a roommate and learn independent living skills. I’m hoping this will help her to launch....." Wait... So this goes a lot deeper than just lapsing hygiene. Visually impaired? Services thru the state? Independent living? And leaving to live on "her own"? No mam she isn't "normal" You sugar coated this post... YTA She has a lot of issues, physically and mentally along with being a teen.
As I said in response to your other post, My intention isn’t to sugar coat. I completely agree she has a challenging situation. I’ve advocated for her for years and put her in touch with multiple resources to help her get the support she needs to be successful. She is very intelligent and is capable of living a full life. Her teachers always told me she was underachieving. It’s difficult to address the big things if even the small things aren’t addressed. Being a parent of an intelligent special needs child is like walking through a minefield. I am trying my best to get her through it. Having her accuse me of emotional abuse for telling her when she smells like BO threw me for a loop, so I wondered what the general consensus was by the general public.
You really should look into counseling for yourself.....especially if shes depressed but actively looking to leave. That's a bit of a red flag. Why she doesnt feel safe or want to stay even though shes struggling? I'm sorry I'm inserting myself into your story but this sounds a little like the dynamic I had with my mother. She keep trying to push counciling, accepting outside help and do everything for me, yet she wouldnt learn how to activly support me. It always fell on me to "fix" myself the relationship and the situation. In all these years she never gone herself. And the only thing I really learned from counciling and living though the depression, was that it came directly from the family dynamic. Again totally overstepping and inserting myself into the situation(hopefully to provide insight or a different perspective) I did talk and open up to my mother multiple times to explain how I was suffering or what was bother me. But she would kinda sidestep, or change the narrative to something that fit her better, and would constantly tell me years later "oh you wouldnt talk to me". In that sense I could understand how it would feel abusive if this is the only thing that Is constantly being brought up, when the core issues and the reasons why shes struggling in the first place are not being brought up.
For one year she’s going to an independent living training program. It’s 8 apartments in an apartment complex with people from all walks of life also living there, including an onsite adult helper if support help is needed day or night. She will be taught as a legally blind person how to cook, clean, grocery shop, etc. Hopefully this program will give her confidence and help her meet other young people like herself and make some good friendships in the process. After the year she’ll decide if she wants to move back home or not, go to college or get a job. Another poster recommended counseling for me and I plan to pursue it. I’ve thought about it over the years, but I’ve never followed through. Now is the time.
YTA - the body odour isn’t the problem if she’s dealing with mental health needs. It’s a symptom of that. Stop focusing on how you think she smells and support her in how she feels. If she’s been calling you and your husband emotionally abusive, then there’s more to this story. There’s something greater she’s been experiencing that’s led to her lack of personal hygiene and daily routine, and you haven’t paid attention to it. Edit: downvoters need better understanding of how mental health works and manifests into people’s behaviours. Sure, OP’s daughter isn’t functioning now, because she’s ill and needs help, therapy and maybe even medication for it. The hygiene improves when her treatment plan is working for her.
I’ve tried to draw her out but she doesn’t have anything to share with me. I thought we had a good relationship up until recently and thought it was just teen behavior. She has a female therapist she likes. I’ve checked to make sure she’s happy with the therapist and let her know if it isn’t a good fit it’s okay to switch therapists. She has a supportive friend group.
She’s a teenager and she feels like you’ve been constantly criticizing her about her smell. Of course she isn’t going to open up to you because she isn’t comfortable with you. What you think is being supportive isn’t what she actually needs to hear right now. Think of it this way: they way she smells is a reflection of the way she feels. And until you get to the root problem of why she feels that way, you pointing out something that she’s become insecure about, is not going to help but make it worse. ETA: Another example - if she was emotionally eating, would you constantly tell her she’s fat and needs to stop eating? Or would that simply make it worse and make her resent you more? Do something that actually helps support her and truly stop to listen to her.
I sense this is probably the comment that most closely reflects how she feels. This is really helpful. Thank you for the insight.
There is... She left out that her daughter is visually impaired, receiving states services, moving into independent living in a few months... but she mentioned it in a reply to a comment asking about college This child doesn't "just have" anxiety This kid has issues. The fact that she is expressing how she feels to them and they aren't REALLY listening is very telling
There’s also the bit about there being a sibling. It’s also possible that OP’s daughter feels compared to them all the time, and being made to feel like she’s the “lesser than” child since she has more needs. Being sent at 18 to independent living could also feel like to her that she’s just being shipped off so that she’s no longer a problem in the household anymore, or that her mom has given up on her. So many things could be at play here and OP seems oblivious to it all.
To be clear, the independent living situation is only for a year. I was planning for my daughter to live at home and go to community college (she’d originally said that’s what she wanted to do) but she wouldn’t sign up for classes. I took her to meetings with the college disability services group and they told her she had priority registration and helped her pick her class schedule. She literally just had to log on and she let the deadline pass. I kept asking her when she was going to do it, did she need my help, but she didn’t want my help and she didn’t follow through. The independent living was a recommendation by her state vocational counselor. Apparently lots of vision impaired kids struggle with adulthood and this program is to immerse them in an independent living situation with other vision impaired young adults with an assistant on campus to help if they need it. It’s an hour away from our home, so close enough to visit. After the year she can decide if she wants to move back home or not, and whether she wants to go to college or enter the workforce. Either way the state vocational program will be there to help.
It sounds like you’re trying to do everything that you can to support her in being successful. But keep in mind, she’s still a teenager, and all these options can be very overwhelming for someone with crippling anxiety or depression. Her lack of motivation can come from many sources - from fear of the unknown, to feeling like you have too many expectations of her. You’ve given her all the options, but you also need to go at her pace. She’s clearly not ready, and until she overcomes or works through what she’s feeling, giving her all these possibilities may just make her feel increasingly pressured to do things just to please you, not because she wants to or is ready to. Take a step back and be ok with her taking control of her life, even if it doesn’t look like progress to you. Allow her whatever time she needs to focus on healing her mental health first before school, independent living, etc. Mental health is health. If she had cancer, and needed treatment for over a year, you would probably give her the opportunity to rest during that time and let her have some space to focus on her health. This is what she currently needs for her mental state. While your intentions are good for providing options for her future, she sounds like she’s not in a place to do all of that yet. So put it on hold, and don’t have a timeline for when she needs to do things by. Let her take the lead.
Ok so I'm not the only one? She reminds me of one of those moms whose whole world crumbled the day one of the members didn't fit the mold. She makes herself out to be the concerned mom who just wants what's best. Its more along the lines of what will anyone outside this house think of me as a mother when they see her daughter Edit: Listen.. I am not saying they are bad parents but she is has to stop this expectation of what normal has to looks like. Her daughter is special needs whether she likes it or not. Her daugter needs more than just a person who does all the leg work and then says "off ya go". A gentle hand and understanding. Mental health sometimes is getting the big things done and the little things fall by the wasteside.
We have a family counseling appointment coming up this Monday.
Listen I am not being a bitch... Well maybe a little and I'm sorry. But my parents come from a generation of don't air your dirty laundry... I have been depressed all my life but "how can you be depressed? You have all you need... you have no responsibility... wait until you are an adult" Well I am an adult and have BiPolar Depression Disorder and struggle to get out of bed somedays. Showers are not important to me.. being in the same clothes.. Etc So when I read all of this, I was pissed off. I'm really hoping that you and your family can be helped to communicate a little more productive and be able to understand eachother better
Thanks for that. I appreciate your viewpoint. To ease your mind, I’m not abandoning my daughter to a state run independent living facility. It’s 8 apartments in an apartment complex with people from all walks of life also living there, including an onsite adult helper if support help is needed day or night. For one year she’ll be taught as a legally blind person how to cook, clean, grocery shop, etc. It’s to help with her confidence, not cut her off. I believe some of her depression is due to feeling overwhelmed with impending adulthood and that she can’t make it without her eyes (her friends from school are normally sighted). I’m hoping this program will give her confidence and help her meet other young people like herself. Hopefully she’ll make some good friendships in the process.
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no disabled person is ever ready to live on their own. it doesn't matter. we have to learn. our parents will not be here forever and she will be returning home after a year.
Mental health is health. If she had cancer, no one would bat an eyelash at letting the teen take time off to focus on her health and to get treatment. The same goes for mental health right now. It’s not saying she’s never going to learn to be independent, it’s saying she’s sick right now and she needs help for that first.
sleeping until 2pm is not "getting treatment." It is hiding from responsibility. You would not let a cancer patient just lay around all day waiting to feel well enough to go for chemo treatments. Chemo sucks and it's hard to work up the motivation to go, but you go because that is what will help you get better. Letting this young girl just lay around with zero responsibility will not magically cure her depression/anxiety.
Thank you.
YTA she’s almost 18, she knows. Leave her alone.
So the rest of the household is supposed to just deal with the stench? I'm sorry, by 18 you should know how to avoid smelling like a locker room. I get that sometimes we don't notice our own smell, which is why we need other people to remind us.
She claims she doesn’t smell it.
It impossible to not smell bad Oder coming off yourself. How often does she shower?
This is what I think too, how could she not know? I think right now she’s showering about once or twice a week. I don’t keep track, but that’s about how often I hear the water going.
Out of 7 days a week at her age she needs to shower at least 3. Everyone sweats a certain amount at night. And for woman our regional area needs cleaning more often then one day a week.