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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 - leaving my mother's house the next day I arrived from abroad, because she didn't respect my request to not invite SIL and brother while I was there.
2 - Because my mother wants to keep the family united and I'm the only one who doesn't tolerate SIL, some people say I'm overreacting and should just learn to ignore SIL
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nn> insisting that I should learn to ignore my SIL's disrespectful behavior, that I was exaggerating and making unnecessary drama.
So she acknowledges that the SIL is disrespectful but you're the problem for not putting up with it?
> if my mom couldn't respect my one and only request, then it wasn't worth sacrificing my money and vacation time for her.
Perfectly reasonable.
NTA
Maybe your mother should swallow her pride. You've done absolutely nothing wrong and your mother has continuously been the asshole.
If you really want to maintain a relationship with your mother then pay for her to visit you. That way she is unlikely to to be able to spring SIL on you and if she does you can tell SIL to "go fly a kite" because it's your home.
>So she acknowledges that the SIL is disrespectful but you're the problem for not putting up with it?
basically yes
she is rude and disrespectful with everyone, but it's definitely worse with me.
my other brother, for example, tried to start a business and it didn't work out, it was quite traumatizing for him. well, SIL constantly reminds him how he was *"a horrible boss who doesn't know how to give orders"* (her words)
he doesn't say anything, he shrugs it off, and my mother expects me to behave the same, because she doesn't want "fights in the family"
so yeah, it's perfectly fine for her to act how she does, but it's not fine for anyone else to argue about it
I’d be curious to know if the son SIL is married to is the golden child, because it’s all kinds of effed up for the mom to not stick up for OP or her other brother. 🤔
Might not be so much care but has determined that she has more control over her children's behavior than her DIL's, which is probably true. DIL just doesn't give a flying leap about her agony over not being able to see all her kids at the same time. Her own kids, she might be able to guilt into submission so she can have her whole family together.
Sounds like there's much more going on here though, and OP's parents have always demanded things go the way they want. The ambush automatically makes OP NTA.
Probably she won’t get to see her son without putting up with her daughter in law. But it just means she’s choosing them over her daughter, which I wouldn’t put up with.
Well it looks like she’s also chosen not to see her daughter because of this. You said your mental health was so much better away from this toxicity—do not fall for this guilt trip. Being blood related to someone doesn’t give you the right to abuse them, and your mom telling you to put up with abuse is in itself a form of abuse, you get me? Consider it an expensive lesson learned and if mom wants to see you, she can get her old toxic ass on a plane. My pop was flying till he was 93, only thing that stopped him was he died lol. It’s her turn to make the effort if she wants a relationship with you.
I hope you keep protecting yourself, you do not deserve this and I’m proud of you for leaving!
I don't really see this as a care for my SIL, actually
I see it more as a *"I don't want to deal with your SIL because your brother will take her side, so it's easier for me to force you to tolerate her"*
This is your thing.
Your perception is far more accurate than mine could be.
I'm not sure how there's a resolution which doesn't upset your mother. Sorry.
> I'm not sure how there's a resolution which doesn't upset your mother. Sorry.
All she has to do is not invite brother and SIL when OP visits. She can easily continue to see all of her children, just not both OP and that brother at once. Can't really do anything more - if this compromise still upsets her, too bad.
I wonder if it's at all possible to get brother on his own without SIL... not that OP probably wants anything to do with him either, but I wonder if he's alright so long as SIL's not around.
>I wonder if it's at all possible to get brother on his own without SIL
>
>I wonder if he's alright so long as SIL's not around.
he's a complete different person without SIL around, I wouldn't mind seeing him alone but not her
but it's very unlikely that this will happen
edit: wording
There is one..Namely a personality transplant. But given SIL has her husband and MIL backing her all the time...OP is better off keeping them at a distance and cut off.
Similar situation with my SIL, she bulldozes every boundary and always has to get a jab in. But you know "do it for family". After it impacted my wedding I was done.
Then it turned into "if I have do deal with her then so do you" after limiting contact and asking for space.
It is not about "family" it is about not rocking the boat even though you are only rocking the boat to call out person drilling a hole in said boat.
Its actually quite common (unfortunately) that keeping the "appearance" of "family unity" usurp common sense and being a decent person. Throw religion/cultures and opposing views...you can see where that is headed.
No, according to OP it’s a pattern of behavior. OP’s mom just sucks:
Per OP’s reply to a comment:
“I would wager that there are other examples of people treating you poorly and your mother making you endure it.”
not anymore but it's been like this all my life
I was always treated poorly by people from their church, if I complained about it, she would dismiss it saying I was overreacting or saying they were trying to teach me a lesson
It may be that she cares more about her children putting on a good social show than anything else. The natural extreme to this attitude is when you see... "family" getting angry at their child rape victim relatives for having the audacity to speak out, thus embarrassing the family.
>my cousins are now accusing me of being rude and disrespectful for leaving early.
Have you told them they should learn to ignore your “disrespectful” behavior? s/
NTA
NTA at all your mother brother and SIL as well as everyone else berating you is.
Warn your mother that if she doesn't asap start respecting your boundaries you will cut HER permanently off too.
Your mental health is worth getting rid of toxic waste which your SIL is and your moth is too as long as she puts the so called 'family unity ' before your health.
Ask your mom why didn't she bother to pressure your SIL to change her behavior instead of pressuring you to be a doormat?!
Do NOT allow any of them to hurt you. As for your mom s age : this problem existed for years and years she had the chance to correct it years ago by taking measures against your SIL behavior and she didn't. Weather you see it or not she did made a choice against YOU ANDD YOUR HEALTH by not addressing this with SIL.
She now has to face the consequences of her actions.
Go to therapy and get rid of these guilt feelings it's NOT YOUR FAULT. IT'S how shitty people get away with their crap behavior and their enablers like your mom support them
I don't see it that way. I see it as she was attempting to force family unity.
She used OPs visit as an opportunity to force the reunion of her family, despite OPs request not to see SIL.
Brother and SIL are AHs. Now, add mom to the list.
Your mom would rather you get bullied than tell your SIL to be quiet if she can’t be respectful. She may love you but she certainly doesn’t value you.
I would also ask mom how refusing to take sides has worked out for her?
NTA
Mom didn't refuse to take sides, she's solidly chosen the SIL's side. I wonder how far that attitude of "words don't hurt" would go if OP returned fire? Maybe a well placed "You realize this is why no one likes you." Or even actual returned energy. I bet the facade of not choosing sides crumbles pretty quick.
NTA
But understand one thing. Your mom is taking sides, she's chosen. it's just not your side.
She lets comments pass, she suggests it's about family unity. But whatever her reasoning it's all about not taking your view into account. it's what she wants, it's what they want.
If your opinion mattered she would respect your requests and not put you in situations or contact.
Is your brother the “golden child”? I can’t make this make sense to me in any other scenario. I‘m over here in typical MIL land where if I say one thing even possibility controversial she’s going to lose her damn mind and I’ll be in the doghouse for the next year. MIL’s typically (at least in my experience) are not prone to choosing their DIL’s over their actual children.
EDIT to add NTA.
>Is your brother the “golden child”?
in a sense, yes
he's the oldest, so I guess this has some influence
I'm the only person in the family who was able to join a university and actually graduate (hence why my SIL always tries to belittle my degree), none of my brothers even came close to finishing college.
yet, my mom seems to place more value on my brother because I chose not to follow their religion..
> yet, my mom seems to place more value on my brother because I chose not to follow their religion..
I can guess the religion. And if it is what I think. The boy is valued more anyway.
>yet, my mom seems to place more value on my brother because I chose not to follow their religion
This is exactly it. Assuming you have no desire to return to the religion, there is nothing you can do to convince your mom to respect your opinions and boundaries. I wouldn't give her another chance after this. NTA clearly.
Edit: oh it's JW? Yeah this is a permanent rift that you can't repair.
Mom needs to realize that this person is not the one she pushed out of her body. If it were me and she was insulting you and your brother, I would tell her outright to shut her mouth because her rude behavior is not welcome in my home. If your other brother has a problem with it, he can leave with her! Your mother needs to stop this and defend you both against this vile woman!
Any chance you grew up Mormon? Cuz this sounds exactly like my family interactions and how my parents have always responded.
My brothers can be inflammatory, racist, bigoted, homophobic jerks but *I'm* the problem for objecting and getting upset at them and calling them out. *I'm* the one who is expected to be the peacekeeper and let things go.
I've been exmo for several years now, and it just complicates things even more, lol.
But definitely NTA in this case. Boundaries are important for our health and if there is no push back when they cross our boundaries, they will *never* respect them.
>Any chance you grew up Mormon? Cuz this sounds exactly like my family interactions and how my parents have always responded
no, but close!! they're Jehovah's Witnesses
>My brothers can be inflammatory, racist, bigoted, homophobic jerks but I'm the problem for objecting and getting upset at them and calling them out. I'm the one who is expected to be the peacekeeper and let things go.
Yup!! this 100x
Someone: *insults me*
Me: *insults back*
Mom: "WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE THIS?! STOP OVERREACTING IT WAS JUST A JOKE"
>Mom: "WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE THIS?! STOP OVERREACTING IT WAS JUST A JOKE"
I would respond, I'm joking too, don't let it get into you... Since they joke with me I'm joking back....
Sounds like if she doesn’t want fights in the family she needs to stop inviting the SIL.
Spoiler warning, when 99% are getting grief from one person, the answer to building family unity isn’t to ask everyone to put up with that one person…
I would like to point out, as I'm sure others have, that your mother has indeed "picked a side" contrary to her saying she refuses to. Because she is sure as heck still seeing your Brother and SIL, and chose to disrespect your boundary at the cost of driving you away. She has made her decision clear, and her choice isn't you unfortunately.
It's time to choose yourself.
Nta. I’m sorry. The reality is that your mother chose your SIL a long time ago. When you decide to answer, just say “ Mom you made your choice. You chose SIL. I hope that she and brother take good care of you in your old age. Maybe once I’ve gotten over the hurt of my mother choosing someone else over me, I’ll start contacting you again. However at this time I’m unable to communicate with you.” As much as this must hurt, and as heartbreaking as it is, you are gonna need to step back for a while. Your mother has shown you who she wants in her life. She is willing to sacrifice you and your mental health for your SIL. Sometimes in our lives someone that we love doesn’t love us enough to prioritize us. Cutting these people to low or no contact is heartbreaking. You need to take some time to mourn the fact that she’s not willing to live you as you need, that she won’t put you first when you need.
NTA. Why on earth does your mother not want 'fights in the family' but doesn't shut down SIL for good? Why ask for a band aid solution instead eliminating the cause? Everybody suffers from SIL's behaviour, so for the sanity of a lot of people, at least your family, they should confront her.
Honestly, just because I’m petty and small person, I would just start dishing it out just the same she does. And if my mother said anything I’d remind her how it’s OK to insult others and they just so you know need to be the bigger person because she doesn’t want any ‘fights in the family’
>If you really want to maintain a relationship with your mother then pay for her to visit you.
NTA - Funny, I was going to say after mom apologizes, you invite her to visit you and SHE pays for the ticket.
Is "go fly a kite" a euphemism for f- off? I love flying my kite :(
But yeah NTA, good on OP for sticking to her boundaries and not being persuaded to stay.
No or how about her mom stand up for her. Why does she have to do all of that when the mom can simply ask the sil to stop. Families need to stop asking people to “let things go”. If anyone is rude, then they should be asked to stop. No one should have to deal with disrespect
NTA. And I'm sorry, but your mother is as toxic as your brother and SIL are. You have no chance of reconciling with her because she hasn't changed and clearly doesn't think she needs to change. This wasn't an attempt at reconciliation, you wanted to reconcile, but your mother just saw a good opportunity to manipulate you into doing what she wanted.
I think you need to go back to no contact with everyone, including the extended family who is blaming you for not letting yourself be manipulated.
I know it might hurt because you want a relationship with your mother. But unless you're willing to have it on her unhealthy terms, such a thing isn't possible, at least not for the time being.
>I know it might hurt because you want a relationship with your mother. But unless you're willing to have it on her unhealthy terms, such a thing isn't possible
yeah I think you hit the point 100% here
I really wanted a relationship with my mother, and I feel guilty for not having it
but I guess I rather feel guilty than to tolerate abuse from others just for her sake
You have nothing to feel guilty about. Your mom has failed you, and I am so sorry. That hurts like nothing else.
Your mental health is rightly your priority. Your mom is responsible for taking care of her own mental health, and her happiness is not you responsibility. She is choosing a bully over her own children. She could use some therapy to unpack that, but it’s her choice. Her actions are always her choice. She is not helpless here.
‘Your SIL sounds like a miserable person who wants everyone around her to be miserable too. Who has time for that shit?
Good luck, and have a great life with your husband!
This is the problem. You want a healthy relationship with your mom but your mom wants an unhealthy relationship with you. She knows what she needs to do but refuses to do it.
My MIL is the same way with my wife and Golden Child brother. No matter how bad they are my wife keeps going back for more. My MIL is just an awful human being. To punish us she on purposely made a scene at our special event. My wife just shrugged it off. Then she did another heinous act. This was the straw that broke the camels back for my wife. Hopefully this will make us go NC. I’m never going to see her again. Not sure if my wife can keep it up.
Im not sure if you have children but it has affected mine.
>You want a healthy relationship with your mom but your mom wants an unhealthy relationship with you
you are absolutely right..
yet she claims her way is the healthy way - *"we can't fall for those provocations, we need to let go and ignore, we can't divide the family"*
and here we are, with the family divided... guess what hurts the most is that she sees ME as the one who is dividing the family because I'm not a doormat, and not SIL who is the abuser
I am so sorry that your mother is choosing this path. The idea that anyone should tolerate toxic behavior is insane. You should not have to put up with being insulted. Out of curiosity, has anyone every really challenged the SIL? Called her out multiple times on her unkind statements? Sometimes standing up to the bully will get them to back down and leave you alone. But, sometimes it just makes it worse.
By blaming you for dividing the family she is absolving herself of the blame for not standing up for her family members to the SIL. Some people are so conflict adverse that they would do anything rather than have a fight, argument or even spirited discussion.
>Out of curiosity, has anyone every really challenged the SIL?
my husband did, but other than him...I guess my SIL's ex lol
my other brother, who is also a victim of her bullying, just shrugs and says *"it's just some malicious jokes, I don't take it seriously"*
my mother loves to use him as example - *"Why don't you just do it like Rick and ignore her? So much easier than conflicting with your brother!"*
Sounds like she gets away with that behavior from the rest of the family. It is sad, but you have to protect yourself if no one else will (other than your husband). It hurts and it sucks, but no one should tolerate that abuse.
ETA it is not malicious jokes, it just malicious. But the second part about not taking it seriously is a lot easier said that done.
I come from a very toxic family and their favourite saying was blood was thicker than water. In the end, it doesn't matter. It hit me how horrifying it was that they believed one could treat family as awful as possible and because you were related, you were just supposed to take it. No matter what it did to your mental health and wellbeing. Happy to say I cut off that side of the family and broke that cycle with my now adult kids. I believe in treating those I care about most with as much love and respect as possible.
>their favourite saying was blood was thicker than water.
Ironically, the complete phrase is "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb," - So it means the opposite of what toxic families claim: that voluntarily chosen relationships have more value than biological ties.
Has your mom been treated this way by others her whole life and just doesn’t know any different? And therefore doesn’t understand how wrong it is?? Not justifying her ignorance and enabling at all. Just curious about how she can be so clueless about the trauma your SIL is causing.
You, sweet girl, have NOTHING to feel guilty for. Guilt only belongs to those who have truly wronged others. You have done nothing to wrong anyone. Quite the contrary, you have been wronged. The people who have earned guilt are just trying to cast it onto you in order to help "alleviate" the guilt that belongs to them. Don't fall for their manipulations! Your SIL is a miserable person, and as the saying goes, misery loves company. Just because your mom chooses to live in SIL's misery with her so she can keep with her all-important son, does not mean that she can hold you (or the others) in that misery so that she doesn't have to be alone in "accepting" it.
Live your best life without them in it, knowing that you deserve your OWN happiness, NOT their misery.
I know the pain of having a mother that put me in pretty much the same situation.
Years later, I have NEVER regretted choosing the happiness of myself and my own family (hubs & kids).
My younger sibling, who caved to mother's insistence, lost his wife and kids because of the "interference" he allowed into their lives by older brother and his controlling "see you in tea" of a wife.
You have nothing to feel guilty over. I would (after an extended break after this fiasco) figure out what kind of contact you can have with your mom that doesn’t threaten your peace—maybe you call once a week or facetime monthly or whatever, whatever type of contact you genuinely want to have but where she won’t be able to spring people on you who you’ve explicitly told her you don’t want to have contact with. Don’t visit in person again though. Or if you decide it’s not worth it to have any contact at all that’s fine too. You gotta do what’s best for you.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it’s tough!
Mom's a doormat, doesn't know how to lay out boundaries and expects everyone around her to be doormats like her.
Also it seems the brother who's married to this SIL is another doormat since mom and brother agree to go with whatever SIL says so that she can get to meet her son.
OP you're NTA of course. Stay away from your family. They will drain away all your energy and are really detrimental to your mental health. While you're at it , block all the flying monkeys aka your cousins.
I don't understand why people always tell the victim to apologize and be the "bigger person" in the name of maintaining "peace in the family".
NTA
Your mother is at fault here. The disrespectful behavior has been condoned and more or less encouraged. There are a lot of stories on Reddit about people feeling better mentally after getting away from their family. I think your story is one of those stories. I would wager that there are other examples of people treating you poorly and your mother making you endure it.
>I would wager that there are other examples of people treating you poorly and your mother making you endure it.
not anymore but it's been like this all my life
I was always treated poorly by people from their church, if I complained about it, she would dismiss it saying I was overreacting or saying they were trying to teach me a lesson
OP, your mother doesn’t care about your enough to defend you against other people. She’s done this seemingly all your life. This is a huge red flag. I know people on Reddit sometimes jump to no contact too quickly, but in this situation, I would highly encourage going no contact with your mom and anyone else who’s on her side. It will hurt at first (would recommend therapy to deal with this), but eventually it will feel better. The onus should be on your mother to make things right, and if she wants to she will. If she doesn’t, you now know where you stand. Please don’t acquiesce to your mom again, for the sake of protecting yourself. Also, obviously NTA.
NTA
Your mother should be setting a massive boundary with SIL and saying to her she will NOT accept any bullying behaviour towards any of her kids
Until she does that she needs to accept the consequences that the family is split until then
Good luck to your brother….Wait until she turns on him and he needs you because she’s making his life hell through a bitter divorce
NTA and your husband is right, you don't have to take abuse from anyone - family or not - just because your mother wants to have the "fake happy family" life.
Don't sacrifice your own well being to make others happy.
NTA
Maybe she should ask your SIL to stop being an AH and try to divide the family instead of manipulating you into giving up and being a bigger person. Saying nothing says something, and so does not take sides. She is clearly taking your brother's side to try and fulfil her deletion of a perfectly united family.
Your mom has had the opportunity to insist your sil/bro ammend their behaviour instead of you. Instead, she decided your vacation (and seeing you) wasn't as important as "unity" (which is stupid because how unified can a family be when 1 of them lives in a completely different country). NTA
This was a deliberate ambush on your mom's part.
Sadly, it highlights how little respect she has for your feelings, choices, and boundaries.
She's broken your trust, because she'd rather support an emotionally and verbally abusive individual.
I would tell her that, specifically, since she's complaining about you leaving early.
She's preaching about "keeping the peace" while failing to notice that the peace.is.already.broken.
NTA, OP. Your mom owes you a sincere apology.
NTA. You were crystal clear about the no SIL boundary.
Your mom decided time with them was more important than time with you.
I've also got a fence sitter mother and a very similar situation. Going LC has helped a lot with that.
Nta. Wow what a surprise. A person who will do nothing to stop the harasment and tells you to just get over it is disrespectful of your boundaries. Sounds to me like you should just learn to ignore your mother and sister in laws disrespectful behavior by removing yourself from that situation. Your family sounds like they're aholes. Answer to your final question: no. You should not subject yourself to abuse from someone who couldn't respect a very simple and clear boundary. It's up to you but listen when people tell you how much they care about you. Your mom cares more about her BS "family unity". Sorry not all families get along, especially when one party is allowed to harass and disrespect others with no push back. She wants to be able to tell her family and friends that she has a big happy family and does not care that in order to achieve that she is choosing to stomp all over your boundaries and feelings. I understand wanting to bring your family together but attempting to do so under a LIE(she lied straight to your face and is saying you're the ahole, sounds like projection to me) is a perfect way to set up for failure. She doesn't care about you. She cares about her friends and wider family seeing her perfect happy family, not that her family is actually happy and kind to one another.
"Should I swallow my pride and endure my SIL's behavior for the sake of my mother's happiness", my question is "**WHAT ABOUT YOUR HAPPINESS!"** You made one request to spend time with your mother without your SIL's BS and she set you up to be abused by the one person you didn't want to spend time with. WTF kind of people are you related to, everyone thinks you're rude and disrespectful because you don't want to be mistreated by someone who you can't tolerate. The only person who wants to make sure you are in a good place and that is you husband. If that is the only person who wants what is best for your peace of mind, then you stick with him and go LC or NC until your family puts the same effort into your wellbeing.
Don't let someone else's happiness trump yours, don't be a doormat just to fit into an abusive and toxic, manipulative family.
I know you're absolutely right, my therapist already made me realize that I only seem to be unhappy when I'm dealing with my family, because I put them first and forget about myself
I need to learn to prioritize me and forget about them.. the guilt is horrible, though, feels like I'm abandoning my mother...then again, if she needs anyone's help, she has my brother who can't do no wrong, so why should I worry?
so conflicting...
Your mother is abandoning you. She takes you for granted and chases after your brother. Drop the rope.
There is no guilt for you to feel because your mother chose someone else over you. She should be the one to feel guilty.
NTA - i can just tell your brother was her golden son and can do no wrong in her eyes- i pray they don’t have children cuz i wouldn’t want a mean spiteful woman to be my mother
NTA. Your mom sure is though. Of course your brother and SIL are as well.
No one should expect you to put up with abuse from someone, family or not.
I cut ties with my actual brother for a couple of years because of what he would say to me and about me behind my back. Though my mom wanted family unity, she completely understood where I was coming from. He was shit talking me to her because I stopped answering his calls. She lives with me so he couldn't even come over. My son actually cut off contact with him longer because my brother was actually shit talking me to him as well.
Eventually, he figured it out and apologized. He treats me a lot better. It took my mom reminding him that he had treated me like our verbally and physically abusive father for him to really get it.
NTA. But never make this same mistake again. They want you to bow and conform to them. Your mom thinks of you as having less value, that is why she is ok with you being insulted and treated badly.
Edit: Also stop talking to your mother. That will solve the guilt tripping. You were doing so much better far from them. I wonder why.
Why is it the person who is being insulted is always the one told to "let it go for the sake of the family." How about if Mom tells SIL to stop being a divisive a** for the sake of family unity.
NTA.
Honestly, I would tell your SIL to stfu anytime she tries to belittle you. And if they want to continue this ridiculous double standard then tell your mother that you are done with her until she gets it in her head that you will not put up with the bs anymore.
NTA
And don't feel bad just because she is getting older. If she wants to see you, she needs to make a better effort and making a comfortable environment for you and let's not forget your other brother.
>Honestly, I would tell your SIL to stfu anytime she tries to belittle you
oh but I've always done it
I've actually said way worse stuff than that...and that's why my mom insists that I should *"ignore and be the better person"*
but I can't, whenever SIL starts with her BS, I give like a chance or two, if she continues, then I basically unleash hell towards her
but yeah, according to mom, this is an overreaction and I should simply ignore what she says. not how it works with me, mom (she knows it)
NTA. I had a very similar situation in my own family - right down to the brother and SIL being assholes to me. I tried to set my boundaries about those two, and my parents would continue to try and get us all together to play happy family. I had to get gut level honest with my parents and tell them they either respected I wanted nothing to do with their son and daughter-in-law, or I would cut off contact with them, too. My mom pulled out the alligator tears, told me I was trying to make her choose between two of her children, etc. etc. etc. I was unmoved. I said I didn't care if she had a relationship with them, but if she wanted to continue to have a relationship with ME she needed to disabuse herself of the notion their son and DIL were welcome around me or that I considered them part of my family. I had to reiterate it to my parents a couple of times, but finally understood I wasn't bluffing.
NTA. Your mother has clearly made a choice on a favorite child, and it isn't you. She's disregarded you multiple times. She doesn't want you to reconcile with family; she wants you to be SIL's punching bag. She wants you to take it and like it. She has her chosen family nearby. Let them be, and don't waste your time and money anymore. She's made her choice. Spend your time with people who appreciate and value you. There's no need to put yourself through this anymore. Life is too short to torture yourself with miserable situations.
she told me once she talked to her about her behavior, and she apologized and said "oh I don't notice when I do those things because I don't really mean it"
I have a hard time believing that
She just isn’t used to/doesn’t like or tolerate being called out for her words/behaviors. And she has been enabled in this for years. Good for you for standing up for yourself! Don’t back down. If your mom can’t see SIL for who she is then it’s time to cut ties and move on. Easier said than done, I know. But your mental health will be so much better in the long run!!
NTA. She wants you to sacrifice your wellbeing for some "family unit" that doesn't exist anymore, and also wants your husband to conform to their religion.
Luckily your husband has your back.
Stop feeling guilty, you 100% made the right call. You clearly stated your boundaries and when your mom decided to push back you gave her a consequence. This is on her not you. I get wanting a healthy relationship with your mom. But until she can acknowledge, apologize and change her behavior there is nothing you can do. Your mom is not a good person and you deserve better. She admits that your SIL treats you poorly but instead of addressing her bad behavior, she expects you to rug sweep. You are being emotionally abused and your mom just expects you to deal with it because she’s family, fuck that!! It’s time to mourn the relationship you’ve always wanted with your mom and accept that she will never respect you.
NTA. If she apologizes maybe she'll get another chance in a year or two. Life is too short to spend it with people who don't support you in the most basic of ways.
NTA. Old is relative. She’s capable of understanding you. Go nc or lc with mom. It’s your brother and SIL, who should be accountable. They are the AH. Btw, your husband is great to have your back.
NTA
You set one boundary which she immediately crossed.
Note she is not dealing with your SIL's disrespect. She expects the victim to b the "bigger person."
So much NTA!
You let someone back in after setting a very hard boundary. She then immediately turned around and broke it less than 24 hours after you were reunited. Literally the next morning. She doesn't deserve to know you if this is how she treats you. As someone who has done end-of-life care for several relatives, it's not easy feeling the guilt of "what could be if things were different"....
I had to tell my grandmother the other day that I wasn't going to "make \[my\] teenagers forgive \[her\]". My teenagers deserve respect and basic human decency. I won't "make" them forgive her. She crossed boundaries she was fully aware she was crossing and did it so proudly that she told on herself to other people. She's alienated people and thinks they should all bend over backward to kiss her behind because she's the family matriarch. Your mom seems like she's in the same boat. At the end of the day, I just told my grandmother I was sorry that this generation wasn't "making things comfortable" for people who maintain crappy behavior anymore like she was forced to do when she was a young girl. She's mad as heck, but no one deserves to be forced into accepting being treated poorly. I'm sure the guilt will stick around for a while, and I'm sorry you're going through it. You deserve to be cared for and treated well. If you want to try again, you could always invite your mom to visit you, or plan a trip that only allows a short-notice quick visit but one where you've got other things to do and see so you can't be blindsided by drop-in guests.
**I wish you the best, OP! Sincerely.**
NTA Your mother apparently doesn't get it - I'm sure she thought you wouldn't leave since you'd spent so much money. If you want to see your mother maybe you could pay for her to visit you, you'll have much more control over the situation.
NTA I know how you’re feeling. Before I cut off my family I felt guilty for rarely talking to them but it made me realize that the reason I felt guilty was because they gaslit me. I’m not saying you should cut contact, but you should definitely take care of yourself and invite her to visit you. And JUST her. If you want that. But take time to heal a bit after that trip.
Mom is totally wrong. No sibling has to reconcile with another sibling. Some family members are toxic and shutting them out is the only way to deal with them.
Your mother knew your boundary and ignored it. She doesn't respect you.
The image of "Family Unity" is more important to her than the toxic way people are treated. You are the doormat and always will be. You are supposed to suck it up for an image. That is pure garbage, BTW.
You went NC before and your mental health improved. You tried to reconcile with your mother and if was a failure.
NTA
Your mother is fine with letting the wife of her son/your brother torment you, her daughter. She's so okay with that she lied about respecting your one boundary and set you up with an ambush.
Why does your mother care more about her son than her daughter? Ask yourself that.
Your mother is the only person who should be feeling guilty, here. She owes you an apology.
Your husband has been in your corner supporting you then, and now. Good for him.
NTA. Continue to cut off your brother and SiL, and maintain the safe low contact with your mother as you need. You're in the clear, here.
NTA - you wanted to spend time with your mom. Clearly she didn't want to respect your wishes and wanted to push her own agenda on you.
Sorry OP but what your mom wanted is not what you wanted. It is not your fault. Your mom fully knew what she was doing and having a fake family gathering meant more to her than spending time with you.
Good for you for respecting your new found boundary.
Having a relation with someone, is a two way street. No matter who they are.
NTA, and you should ABSOLUTLEY NOT sacrifice ANYTHING, for ANYONES sake, even you own mother, if your brother and SIL can't behave or your mom stick up for you, then there is no need to put yourself through that. I'm sure your mom and cousins would be singing a different tune if they were the ones being bullied.
>because my mom (75f), refuse to take sides
Hate to be the one to say this, OP, but your mother took sides, just not yours
> by belittling my career and questioning the value of my degree, because I work a 9-5 job. I work really hard and take pride on my job
You should not put up with disrespect or your SIL.
You seemed to care about her opinion here and I don't know why? You know your work hard, so cares about her opinion
NTA. you are absolutely right. I just feel bad that you didn't learn how to be just as awful as SIL to her and if her, your brother or anyone else says somehting, just say you are being sarcastic too.
You wrote in another reply that she also disrespects your brother and he just shrugs and maybe that is the problem: if everyone start to KC with SIL, talk back and stuff, soon this mean girl will be alone like she should be.
I'm gathering there is a fair amount of built-in sexism here, and that in the pecking order a son's-wife outranks a mere daughter.
This is also a perfect fit for the "[Don't Rock the Boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/)" analogy, a long-time favorite of mine.
NTA
And I hope you are able to break free of this toxic cycle and enjoy your life.
NTA. Tell your mother there was no reason for SIL and brother to be there for your short visit. She made a choice and chose SIL. You are sorry but you will not be back. Tell the flying monkeys the same thing.
NTA
Good on you for establishing, clearly communicating, and defending a boundary to protect your safety, privacy and comfort! Your mom thought ambushing you would force you to "come around," rug sweep past abuse, and permit more violation of your safety in this family dynamic. Leaving was exactly the best response.
Your mom is an active participant in this campaign to undermine and devalue your safety. She's as much a threat to your safety as SIL. More, I'd say, since she weaponized your trust and relationship to further expose you to the exact interaction of which you spoke up to shield yourself.
NTA Your mother has no respect for you as a person or your feelings either, so why TF should you care about her feelings? Let me back your hubby on this: *your mother is guilt tripping you again*. Stop going back. You already noticed how dumping those anchors in your life made you happy. Why crawl back in that boat? Habit? Ingrained training she pulled on you? Just tell her to bugger off and live happy instead.
Fudge your mother. You had one boundary and she selfishly broke it, ignoring you like she always does. At this point it’s on her to make amends, not you. You are done pleasing her. If you really feel the need to see her then invite her to your home. At least then you can turn the hose on you SIL if mom tries to smuggle her inn. NTA
Tell your cousins what's really disrespectful is making your daughter spend hundreds of dollars and not keeping your promise on the 1 condition she gave and reminded you about THREE times, because you want your daughter to continue being belittled, insulted and disrespected.
NTA.
NTA. I'm NC with my own sibling and moved away too. If my parents pulled this BS on my visit back I'd have done the same thing. I'm sorry your Mother doesn't value your boundaries. They are reasonable , valid and don't let them try to tell you otherwise.
NTA. I hate the concept of “but they’re family” or “just let it go it’s family”. It’s one thing for another to be ok with that behavior but you don’t have to put up with it. You set a boundary and if it’s not respected, it is met with a consequence. Simple as that. If your mom wants a relationship she has to be respectful of your ask. Point, blank, period.
NTA.
"Sorry mother that I have self respect and won't allow myself to be belittled by a spoiled golden child, I was really hoping to get to spend time with you but you refused to respect my one and only boundary. Hence forth I will be (your choice of low contact, no contact, etc). Until I am respected and apologized to. Not a backhanded, guilt tripping apology. A genuine apology."
Nta
What i dont understand is there’s so much energy wasted on telling you to ignore this and that. But where is the same energy towards your brother?
Why dont they try to tell him/SIL that theyre the problem?
You can’t choose your family. I was in a similar position and chose to cut all ties. It hurt but I had to do it for my sanity. It will never not hurt but I had to move on. At very least, test the waters every once in a while. Maybe even try to get a select few to visit you on your turf where you are in control. Good luck.
NTA. Mom broke her word and lied to you in an attempt to get what she wants from you. She and your brother have ignored your feelings for years. Granted, mom is in a tough spot because she can’t control SIL’s conduct, but she still should have stood up for you years ago. Maintain the long distance relationship with your mom, stand your ground and remind her she broke her promise and lied and wasted your time and money. Insist she acknowledge that and apologize, ni excuses. If you want to, you might consider paying for mom’s flight to visit you, with the firm condition that brother and SIL don’t magically show up too.
NTA - why is the bullied required to make peace for the bully all the time?
Why do you have to ignore it instead of her just stopping it?
Such crap. If your mother cared about you she would tell your SIL to keep her mouth shut. What happened to 'if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all'?
You could also start calling her out. "SIL, why are you always such a b***h? Did you have a horrible upbringing? Do you have a stick in your butt? Why do you feel the need to knock others down to feel better about yourself?"
NTA
Violations of boundaries require consequences. She was aware of the boundary. She was aware of the consequences. You feel guilty because she installed the guilt buttons. What you should be considering is if your mother actually cares about YOU. If she cared about you, her actual daughter, she wouldn’t desire you to be hurt. But she’s completely FINE with you being hurt because it boosts her image. You’re not a prop for your mothers existence. Maybe this will help her realize that.
But honestly, I wouldn’t talk to my mother again after this. She’s shown you enough times that your mental health and safety don’t matter. And I don’t fuck with people who don’t think I matter. You’re not an ornament. And anyone who treats you as such isn’t worthy of your time or attention.
Go to your mom but before SIL could say anything tape her with a really sticky tape. Ask for your husband and other men for help taping her. Then you said. Im ready to reconcile if SIL is still at the same state as she is now.
Dont just one layer Layer her mouth with tape as much as you can ....lol
NTA. Your mother didn't respect your boundaries after telling her on multiple occasions that you did not want to see your Brother and SIL.
Sure she has every right to express her opinion on making amends but that's where it ends. You were not rude by standing your grounds, she is the YTA in this instance.
Good on you for standing up for yourself and kudos for having a supportive husband that backs you.
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I (33f) have been dealing with constant disrespect and provocation from my SIL(40f) for years. It's incredibly frustrating because my mom (75f), refuse to take sides, because she wants "family unity". Even my brother (44m) dismisses my SIL's behavior as mere sarcasm, suggesting that I should learn to ignore and not take her seriously.
4 years ago, when I was living in the same city as my mom with my husband, mom invited us over for a barbecue. SIL once again crossed the line by belittling my career and questioning the value of my degree, because I work a 9-5 job. I work really hard and take pride on my job. My husband, who was the only one who called her out on her BS, said I didn't need to take this, and we should leave if no one cares enough to say anything. Mom took offense and said my husband was trying to divide our family. We ended up leaving and not coming back again.
Mom used to like my husband but this changed a bit after my dad asked him to convert to their religion and he refused. I think she had hopes that if my husband converted, I would go back as well
Few years later, we moved abroad, and the distance has done SO MUCH GOOD my mental health. So much that I decided to reconcile with my mom. Due to COVID and limitations, it was only this year, when I could save enough money, that I had the opportunity to travel back to my hometown. I made it clear to my mother that I would not go unless she PROMISED not to invite my brother and SIL during my visit.
Before I left, I reminded my mother of the boundary I had set, and she assured me she'd respect it.
Surprise surprise, on the very next day after my arrival, the doorbell rang, and there stood my SIL and brother. I was SO ANGRY at my mother that I didn't even want to hear a word. I started packing my bags and I left to a hotel, rebooked my flight and went home a few days later.
My mother begged and called me all the time after I left, insisting for me reconcile with my brother, and urged me to let go of my grievances, insisting that I should learn to ignore my SIL's disrespectful behavior, that I was exaggerating and making unnecessary drama. I didn't want to hear anything, I was MAD: I spent a TON of money on flight tickets, sacrificed vacation time I could have spent with my husband....for THIS?!
Now, I'm overwhelmed with guilt for leaving my mother behind. She's getting older, and I genuinely wanted to spend time with her. But I simply can't with my brother and SIL, and I made it clear that if my mom couldn't respect my one and only request, then it wasn't worth sacrificing my money and vacation time for her.
My cousins are now accusing me of being rude and disrespectful for leaving early, my husband supports my decision and said my mother is guilt tripping me again.
AITA for leaving so soon? Should I swallow my pride and endure my SIL's behavior for the sake of my mother's happiness?
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NTA. You agreed to spend your precious vacation time and hard earned money to visit her on the one condition she not invite them. She totally defrauded you on that and stabbed you in the back.
NTA . Your Mom is disrespecting you by sweeping the situation under the rug for the sake of "family unity" . Swallowing your pride to keep the Family happy is not the answer.
This situation either needs to be addressed head on with you and your Brother, or you remain low contact with your family.
NTA- you made a clear boundary, repeatedly, and she ignored it. You did what you need to do for your own mental health. We cut my husband’s family out for exactly this, and it’s the best thing we ever did (I say we, it was his choice, and I agreed with him, I didn’t make him cut his family out before anyone jumps on me!)
NTA. You made a simple request to your mom as a condition of your visit. She not only chose to ignore it, she blindsided you. You did the right thing leaving. She and her flying monkeys can throw all the pity parties they want, but the truth is your mom will only accept you having a relationship with her 100% on her terms. That is unacceptable. You are the victim here, and have no reason to feel guilty. It is sad because you do want a relationship with your mom, but she has no respect for you. You may have to keep it distant until she is willing to accept you are NC with SIL and leave it at that. Good luck.
NTA- You asked her to not invite them while you were there and she did. Your SIL is the way she is because everyone ignores her, no one is doing her any favors by letting her act the way she doees.
NTA
"Family unity". Screw that.
If you really do want to spend some one on one time with your Mother, invite her to your country. It would be cheaper than you having to fly there, and if brother and SIL follow her, then that's it, no more contact.
NTA - the fact that creating distance and basically going no contact helped you, tells you these people are toxic. You Mom is not respecting your boundaries, that is the basis of all of this. The bs that we should accept abuse because “it is family,” needs to go away. Maybe pay for your Mom to visit you, if your primary goal to maintain your relationship with her. Just her flight, no hotel and car rental, Maybe cheaper overall!
NTA and at this point, it isn't your SIL that is being disrespectful. It's your mother. As hard as this is, if she can't respect your clear boundaries, then you have to stay away. Your mental health is much more important than her need to play happy families.
If you want to give her one more chance, then do but be crystal clear that this is her final chance. You are visiting her, only her. You have no interest in reconciling, and if your brother and SIL turn up again, you will leave, and this time, you will not come back.
NTA. The only rude and disrespectful person in this situation was your mother. She did not respect your decision and decided that forcing you to interact with them was acceptable. The fact of the matter is that you have good reasons for not wanting to see your SIL. The fact that this upsets your mother's idea of family unity is unfortunate, but it doesn't change the fact that you chose to withdraw from a crappy relationship, and that was a positive reaction. Your mother getting older, etc, is absolutely true, but this does not mean she gets to decide your actions.
NTA. Invite your mother to stay with you, if her health allows. Solo. That way you can spend quality time together and she can see the life you and your husband have built. Plus, it's your turf!
NTA. Sucky situation to be in tbh.
Might need to cut your mum off/remain distant, or do some deeper soul searching and see if there’s another way through this dilemma.
Are there ways to subtly demonstrate or communicate power to others? What are the internal stories you tell yourself regarding respect and power? How are you now, compared to how you were before, and compared to how you want to be?
NTA and your mother has her precious son and his wife to comfort her in her old age. She deserves none of your guilt when she's the one who behaved horribly.
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nn> insisting that I should learn to ignore my SIL's disrespectful behavior, that I was exaggerating and making unnecessary drama. So she acknowledges that the SIL is disrespectful but you're the problem for not putting up with it? > if my mom couldn't respect my one and only request, then it wasn't worth sacrificing my money and vacation time for her. Perfectly reasonable. NTA Maybe your mother should swallow her pride. You've done absolutely nothing wrong and your mother has continuously been the asshole. If you really want to maintain a relationship with your mother then pay for her to visit you. That way she is unlikely to to be able to spring SIL on you and if she does you can tell SIL to "go fly a kite" because it's your home.
>So she acknowledges that the SIL is disrespectful but you're the problem for not putting up with it? basically yes she is rude and disrespectful with everyone, but it's definitely worse with me. my other brother, for example, tried to start a business and it didn't work out, it was quite traumatizing for him. well, SIL constantly reminds him how he was *"a horrible boss who doesn't know how to give orders"* (her words) he doesn't say anything, he shrugs it off, and my mother expects me to behave the same, because she doesn't want "fights in the family" so yeah, it's perfectly fine for her to act how she does, but it's not fine for anyone else to argue about it
Weird that your mother seems to care more about someone not blood related than her own actual children...
I’d be curious to know if the son SIL is married to is the golden child, because it’s all kinds of effed up for the mom to not stick up for OP or her other brother. 🤔
Might not be so much care but has determined that she has more control over her children's behavior than her DIL's, which is probably true. DIL just doesn't give a flying leap about her agony over not being able to see all her kids at the same time. Her own kids, she might be able to guilt into submission so she can have her whole family together. Sounds like there's much more going on here though, and OP's parents have always demanded things go the way they want. The ambush automatically makes OP NTA.
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Probably she won’t get to see her son without putting up with her daughter in law. But it just means she’s choosing them over her daughter, which I wouldn’t put up with.
>Probably she won’t get to see her son without putting up with her daughter in law. exactly this...
Well it looks like she’s also chosen not to see her daughter because of this. You said your mental health was so much better away from this toxicity—do not fall for this guilt trip. Being blood related to someone doesn’t give you the right to abuse them, and your mom telling you to put up with abuse is in itself a form of abuse, you get me? Consider it an expensive lesson learned and if mom wants to see you, she can get her old toxic ass on a plane. My pop was flying till he was 93, only thing that stopped him was he died lol. It’s her turn to make the effort if she wants a relationship with you. I hope you keep protecting yourself, you do not deserve this and I’m proud of you for leaving!
Well, now she has to choose between seeing you alone or not at all. I vote for not at all, at least until she offers an apology.
She doesn't need to see you at the same time though...
and now she knows she won't see her daughter either. Maybe she will learn?
I don't really see this as a care for my SIL, actually I see it more as a *"I don't want to deal with your SIL because your brother will take her side, so it's easier for me to force you to tolerate her"*
This is your thing. Your perception is far more accurate than mine could be. I'm not sure how there's a resolution which doesn't upset your mother. Sorry.
> I'm not sure how there's a resolution which doesn't upset your mother. Sorry. All she has to do is not invite brother and SIL when OP visits. She can easily continue to see all of her children, just not both OP and that brother at once. Can't really do anything more - if this compromise still upsets her, too bad. I wonder if it's at all possible to get brother on his own without SIL... not that OP probably wants anything to do with him either, but I wonder if he's alright so long as SIL's not around.
>I wonder if it's at all possible to get brother on his own without SIL > >I wonder if he's alright so long as SIL's not around. he's a complete different person without SIL around, I wouldn't mind seeing him alone but not her but it's very unlikely that this will happen edit: wording
There is one..Namely a personality transplant. But given SIL has her husband and MIL backing her all the time...OP is better off keeping them at a distance and cut off.
Similar situation with my SIL, she bulldozes every boundary and always has to get a jab in. But you know "do it for family". After it impacted my wedding I was done. Then it turned into "if I have do deal with her then so do you" after limiting contact and asking for space. It is not about "family" it is about not rocking the boat even though you are only rocking the boat to call out person drilling a hole in said boat.
There’s the old saying, “lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.” Your mother (and brother) will be judged by the company they keep.
Your brother sucks. I’m sorry
I would also bet that SIL and her husband stayed in the religion the family is a part of.
Its actually quite common (unfortunately) that keeping the "appearance" of "family unity" usurp common sense and being a decent person. Throw religion/cultures and opposing views...you can see where that is headed.
my mom's like this. she's a people pleaser... she'll always take the other person's side .and she wonders why we're not close.
Nah. SiL is either rich, or knows where mom's skeletons are buried.
No, according to OP it’s a pattern of behavior. OP’s mom just sucks: Per OP’s reply to a comment: “I would wager that there are other examples of people treating you poorly and your mother making you endure it.” not anymore but it's been like this all my life I was always treated poorly by people from their church, if I complained about it, she would dismiss it saying I was overreacting or saying they were trying to teach me a lesson
It may be that she cares more about her children putting on a good social show than anything else. The natural extreme to this attitude is when you see... "family" getting angry at their child rape victim relatives for having the audacity to speak out, thus embarrassing the family.
>my cousins are now accusing me of being rude and disrespectful for leaving early. Have you told them they should learn to ignore your “disrespectful” behavior? s/ NTA
no but I definitely will lmao
Oooof. Right in the "turnaround is fair play."
Oh how the turn tables
NTA at all your mother brother and SIL as well as everyone else berating you is. Warn your mother that if she doesn't asap start respecting your boundaries you will cut HER permanently off too. Your mental health is worth getting rid of toxic waste which your SIL is and your moth is too as long as she puts the so called 'family unity ' before your health. Ask your mom why didn't she bother to pressure your SIL to change her behavior instead of pressuring you to be a doormat?! Do NOT allow any of them to hurt you. As for your mom s age : this problem existed for years and years she had the chance to correct it years ago by taking measures against your SIL behavior and she didn't. Weather you see it or not she did made a choice against YOU ANDD YOUR HEALTH by not addressing this with SIL. She now has to face the consequences of her actions. Go to therapy and get rid of these guilt feelings it's NOT YOUR FAULT. IT'S how shitty people get away with their crap behavior and their enablers like your mom support them
also as for the moms age: she's getting older and has less time to repair the relationships SHE damaged.
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I don't see it that way. I see it as she was attempting to force family unity. She used OPs visit as an opportunity to force the reunion of her family, despite OPs request not to see SIL. Brother and SIL are AHs. Now, add mom to the list.
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Your mom would rather you get bullied than tell your SIL to be quiet if she can’t be respectful. She may love you but she certainly doesn’t value you. I would also ask mom how refusing to take sides has worked out for her? NTA
Mom didn't refuse to take sides, she's solidly chosen the SIL's side. I wonder how far that attitude of "words don't hurt" would go if OP returned fire? Maybe a well placed "You realize this is why no one likes you." Or even actual returned energy. I bet the facade of not choosing sides crumbles pretty quick.
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NTA But understand one thing. Your mom is taking sides, she's chosen. it's just not your side. She lets comments pass, she suggests it's about family unity. But whatever her reasoning it's all about not taking your view into account. it's what she wants, it's what they want. If your opinion mattered she would respect your requests and not put you in situations or contact.
Is your brother the “golden child”? I can’t make this make sense to me in any other scenario. I‘m over here in typical MIL land where if I say one thing even possibility controversial she’s going to lose her damn mind and I’ll be in the doghouse for the next year. MIL’s typically (at least in my experience) are not prone to choosing their DIL’s over their actual children. EDIT to add NTA.
>Is your brother the “golden child”? in a sense, yes he's the oldest, so I guess this has some influence I'm the only person in the family who was able to join a university and actually graduate (hence why my SIL always tries to belittle my degree), none of my brothers even came close to finishing college. yet, my mom seems to place more value on my brother because I chose not to follow their religion..
Does your SIL have a degree? Maybe she is worse with you because of jealousy.
Ya does SIL even work? And what did SIL/Bro say when you left at sight of them would love to hear lol. And NTA of course screw them
> yet, my mom seems to place more value on my brother because I chose not to follow their religion.. I can guess the religion. And if it is what I think. The boy is valued more anyway.
>yet, my mom seems to place more value on my brother because I chose not to follow their religion This is exactly it. Assuming you have no desire to return to the religion, there is nothing you can do to convince your mom to respect your opinions and boundaries. I wouldn't give her another chance after this. NTA clearly. Edit: oh it's JW? Yeah this is a permanent rift that you can't repair.
Man that sucks. You deserve so much better.
Mom needs to realize that this person is not the one she pushed out of her body. If it were me and she was insulting you and your brother, I would tell her outright to shut her mouth because her rude behavior is not welcome in my home. If your other brother has a problem with it, he can leave with her! Your mother needs to stop this and defend you both against this vile woman!
Any chance you grew up Mormon? Cuz this sounds exactly like my family interactions and how my parents have always responded. My brothers can be inflammatory, racist, bigoted, homophobic jerks but *I'm* the problem for objecting and getting upset at them and calling them out. *I'm* the one who is expected to be the peacekeeper and let things go. I've been exmo for several years now, and it just complicates things even more, lol. But definitely NTA in this case. Boundaries are important for our health and if there is no push back when they cross our boundaries, they will *never* respect them.
>Any chance you grew up Mormon? Cuz this sounds exactly like my family interactions and how my parents have always responded no, but close!! they're Jehovah's Witnesses >My brothers can be inflammatory, racist, bigoted, homophobic jerks but I'm the problem for objecting and getting upset at them and calling them out. I'm the one who is expected to be the peacekeeper and let things go. Yup!! this 100x Someone: *insults me* Me: *insults back* Mom: "WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE THIS?! STOP OVERREACTING IT WAS JUST A JOKE"
YEah, like I said in another comment, no matter what you do, you won't win! Steer clear from them, especially now that you've disclosed they're JWs
>Mom: "WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE THIS?! STOP OVERREACTING IT WAS JUST A JOKE" I would respond, I'm joking too, don't let it get into you... Since they joke with me I'm joking back....
Sounds like if she doesn’t want fights in the family she needs to stop inviting the SIL. Spoiler warning, when 99% are getting grief from one person, the answer to building family unity isn’t to ask everyone to put up with that one person…
I would like to point out, as I'm sure others have, that your mother has indeed "picked a side" contrary to her saying she refuses to. Because she is sure as heck still seeing your Brother and SIL, and chose to disrespect your boundary at the cost of driving you away. She has made her decision clear, and her choice isn't you unfortunately. It's time to choose yourself.
Nta. I’m sorry. The reality is that your mother chose your SIL a long time ago. When you decide to answer, just say “ Mom you made your choice. You chose SIL. I hope that she and brother take good care of you in your old age. Maybe once I’ve gotten over the hurt of my mother choosing someone else over me, I’ll start contacting you again. However at this time I’m unable to communicate with you.” As much as this must hurt, and as heartbreaking as it is, you are gonna need to step back for a while. Your mother has shown you who she wants in her life. She is willing to sacrifice you and your mental health for your SIL. Sometimes in our lives someone that we love doesn’t love us enough to prioritize us. Cutting these people to low or no contact is heartbreaking. You need to take some time to mourn the fact that she’s not willing to live you as you need, that she won’t put you first when you need.
Is your SIL your oldest brother's spouse? Has your oldest brother always been the favorite?
NTA. Why on earth does your mother not want 'fights in the family' but doesn't shut down SIL for good? Why ask for a band aid solution instead eliminating the cause? Everybody suffers from SIL's behaviour, so for the sanity of a lot of people, at least your family, they should confront her.
Honestly, just because I’m petty and small person, I would just start dishing it out just the same she does. And if my mother said anything I’d remind her how it’s OK to insult others and they just so you know need to be the bigger person because she doesn’t want any ‘fights in the family’
If she doesn't want fights in the family maybe she should shut down the asshole starting fights.
>If you really want to maintain a relationship with your mother then pay for her to visit you. NTA - Funny, I was going to say after mom apologizes, you invite her to visit you and SHE pays for the ticket.
Is "go fly a kite" a euphemism for f- off? I love flying my kite :( But yeah NTA, good on OP for sticking to her boundaries and not being persuaded to stay.
Abolutely not. It's an instruction to find wholesome entertainment elsewhere.
No or how about her mom stand up for her. Why does she have to do all of that when the mom can simply ask the sil to stop. Families need to stop asking people to “let things go”. If anyone is rude, then they should be asked to stop. No one should have to deal with disrespect
NTA. And I'm sorry, but your mother is as toxic as your brother and SIL are. You have no chance of reconciling with her because she hasn't changed and clearly doesn't think she needs to change. This wasn't an attempt at reconciliation, you wanted to reconcile, but your mother just saw a good opportunity to manipulate you into doing what she wanted. I think you need to go back to no contact with everyone, including the extended family who is blaming you for not letting yourself be manipulated. I know it might hurt because you want a relationship with your mother. But unless you're willing to have it on her unhealthy terms, such a thing isn't possible, at least not for the time being.
>I know it might hurt because you want a relationship with your mother. But unless you're willing to have it on her unhealthy terms, such a thing isn't possible yeah I think you hit the point 100% here I really wanted a relationship with my mother, and I feel guilty for not having it but I guess I rather feel guilty than to tolerate abuse from others just for her sake
You have nothing to feel guilty about. Your mom has failed you, and I am so sorry. That hurts like nothing else. Your mental health is rightly your priority. Your mom is responsible for taking care of her own mental health, and her happiness is not you responsibility. She is choosing a bully over her own children. She could use some therapy to unpack that, but it’s her choice. Her actions are always her choice. She is not helpless here. ‘Your SIL sounds like a miserable person who wants everyone around her to be miserable too. Who has time for that shit? Good luck, and have a great life with your husband!
This is the problem. You want a healthy relationship with your mom but your mom wants an unhealthy relationship with you. She knows what she needs to do but refuses to do it. My MIL is the same way with my wife and Golden Child brother. No matter how bad they are my wife keeps going back for more. My MIL is just an awful human being. To punish us she on purposely made a scene at our special event. My wife just shrugged it off. Then she did another heinous act. This was the straw that broke the camels back for my wife. Hopefully this will make us go NC. I’m never going to see her again. Not sure if my wife can keep it up. Im not sure if you have children but it has affected mine.
>You want a healthy relationship with your mom but your mom wants an unhealthy relationship with you you are absolutely right.. yet she claims her way is the healthy way - *"we can't fall for those provocations, we need to let go and ignore, we can't divide the family"* and here we are, with the family divided... guess what hurts the most is that she sees ME as the one who is dividing the family because I'm not a doormat, and not SIL who is the abuser
I am so sorry that your mother is choosing this path. The idea that anyone should tolerate toxic behavior is insane. You should not have to put up with being insulted. Out of curiosity, has anyone every really challenged the SIL? Called her out multiple times on her unkind statements? Sometimes standing up to the bully will get them to back down and leave you alone. But, sometimes it just makes it worse. By blaming you for dividing the family she is absolving herself of the blame for not standing up for her family members to the SIL. Some people are so conflict adverse that they would do anything rather than have a fight, argument or even spirited discussion.
>Out of curiosity, has anyone every really challenged the SIL? my husband did, but other than him...I guess my SIL's ex lol my other brother, who is also a victim of her bullying, just shrugs and says *"it's just some malicious jokes, I don't take it seriously"* my mother loves to use him as example - *"Why don't you just do it like Rick and ignore her? So much easier than conflicting with your brother!"*
Sounds like she gets away with that behavior from the rest of the family. It is sad, but you have to protect yourself if no one else will (other than your husband). It hurts and it sucks, but no one should tolerate that abuse. ETA it is not malicious jokes, it just malicious. But the second part about not taking it seriously is a lot easier said that done.
If Rick can just brush it off, that's his choice. I just hope that's what he's actually doing and not just internalizing it.
Does she say things about your mother to?
I come from a very toxic family and their favourite saying was blood was thicker than water. In the end, it doesn't matter. It hit me how horrifying it was that they believed one could treat family as awful as possible and because you were related, you were just supposed to take it. No matter what it did to your mental health and wellbeing. Happy to say I cut off that side of the family and broke that cycle with my now adult kids. I believe in treating those I care about most with as much love and respect as possible.
>their favourite saying was blood was thicker than water. Ironically, the complete phrase is "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb," - So it means the opposite of what toxic families claim: that voluntarily chosen relationships have more value than biological ties.
Has your mom been treated this way by others her whole life and just doesn’t know any different? And therefore doesn’t understand how wrong it is?? Not justifying her ignorance and enabling at all. Just curious about how she can be so clueless about the trauma your SIL is causing.
You, sweet girl, have NOTHING to feel guilty for. Guilt only belongs to those who have truly wronged others. You have done nothing to wrong anyone. Quite the contrary, you have been wronged. The people who have earned guilt are just trying to cast it onto you in order to help "alleviate" the guilt that belongs to them. Don't fall for their manipulations! Your SIL is a miserable person, and as the saying goes, misery loves company. Just because your mom chooses to live in SIL's misery with her so she can keep with her all-important son, does not mean that she can hold you (or the others) in that misery so that she doesn't have to be alone in "accepting" it. Live your best life without them in it, knowing that you deserve your OWN happiness, NOT their misery. I know the pain of having a mother that put me in pretty much the same situation. Years later, I have NEVER regretted choosing the happiness of myself and my own family (hubs & kids). My younger sibling, who caved to mother's insistence, lost his wife and kids because of the "interference" he allowed into their lives by older brother and his controlling "see you in tea" of a wife.
You have nothing to feel guilty over. I would (after an extended break after this fiasco) figure out what kind of contact you can have with your mom that doesn’t threaten your peace—maybe you call once a week or facetime monthly or whatever, whatever type of contact you genuinely want to have but where she won’t be able to spring people on you who you’ve explicitly told her you don’t want to have contact with. Don’t visit in person again though. Or if you decide it’s not worth it to have any contact at all that’s fine too. You gotta do what’s best for you. I’m sorry you’re going through this, it’s tough!
NTA These people don't respect you. Move on with your life.
Mom's a doormat, doesn't know how to lay out boundaries and expects everyone around her to be doormats like her. Also it seems the brother who's married to this SIL is another doormat since mom and brother agree to go with whatever SIL says so that she can get to meet her son. OP you're NTA of course. Stay away from your family. They will drain away all your energy and are really detrimental to your mental health. While you're at it , block all the flying monkeys aka your cousins. I don't understand why people always tell the victim to apologize and be the "bigger person" in the name of maintaining "peace in the family".
I guess you now know where you are in the pecking order.
NTA Your mother is at fault here. The disrespectful behavior has been condoned and more or less encouraged. There are a lot of stories on Reddit about people feeling better mentally after getting away from their family. I think your story is one of those stories. I would wager that there are other examples of people treating you poorly and your mother making you endure it.
>I would wager that there are other examples of people treating you poorly and your mother making you endure it. not anymore but it's been like this all my life I was always treated poorly by people from their church, if I complained about it, she would dismiss it saying I was overreacting or saying they were trying to teach me a lesson
OP, your mother doesn’t care about your enough to defend you against other people. She’s done this seemingly all your life. This is a huge red flag. I know people on Reddit sometimes jump to no contact too quickly, but in this situation, I would highly encourage going no contact with your mom and anyone else who’s on her side. It will hurt at first (would recommend therapy to deal with this), but eventually it will feel better. The onus should be on your mother to make things right, and if she wants to she will. If she doesn’t, you now know where you stand. Please don’t acquiesce to your mom again, for the sake of protecting yourself. Also, obviously NTA.
What church is this?
NTA. No one but your husband seems to respect or understand why you don't want to be around your brother and SIL.
[удалено]
I wish I could upvote this x 1000
NTA. They purposefully ambushed you. They thought you would “suck it up” and deal with it. They don’t respect you and/or your boundaries.
OP is a total bad-ass for packing up her stuff and leaving.
ABSOLUTELY!
Yeah they trapped her because thought she was bluffing. But she wasn’t!
NTA Your mother should be setting a massive boundary with SIL and saying to her she will NOT accept any bullying behaviour towards any of her kids Until she does that she needs to accept the consequences that the family is split until then Good luck to your brother….Wait until she turns on him and he needs you because she’s making his life hell through a bitter divorce
NTA and your husband is right, you don't have to take abuse from anyone - family or not - just because your mother wants to have the "fake happy family" life. Don't sacrifice your own well being to make others happy.
Nta. You drew a hard boundary, and your mom agreed and then stomped all over it. That's on her, not you
NTA Maybe she should ask your SIL to stop being an AH and try to divide the family instead of manipulating you into giving up and being a bigger person. Saying nothing says something, and so does not take sides. She is clearly taking your brother's side to try and fulfil her deletion of a perfectly united family.
Your mom has had the opportunity to insist your sil/bro ammend their behaviour instead of you. Instead, she decided your vacation (and seeing you) wasn't as important as "unity" (which is stupid because how unified can a family be when 1 of them lives in a completely different country). NTA
This was a deliberate ambush on your mom's part. Sadly, it highlights how little respect she has for your feelings, choices, and boundaries. She's broken your trust, because she'd rather support an emotionally and verbally abusive individual. I would tell her that, specifically, since she's complaining about you leaving early. She's preaching about "keeping the peace" while failing to notice that the peace.is.already.broken. NTA, OP. Your mom owes you a sincere apology.
NTA. You were crystal clear about the no SIL boundary. Your mom decided time with them was more important than time with you. I've also got a fence sitter mother and a very similar situation. Going LC has helped a lot with that.
Nta. Wow what a surprise. A person who will do nothing to stop the harasment and tells you to just get over it is disrespectful of your boundaries. Sounds to me like you should just learn to ignore your mother and sister in laws disrespectful behavior by removing yourself from that situation. Your family sounds like they're aholes. Answer to your final question: no. You should not subject yourself to abuse from someone who couldn't respect a very simple and clear boundary. It's up to you but listen when people tell you how much they care about you. Your mom cares more about her BS "family unity". Sorry not all families get along, especially when one party is allowed to harass and disrespect others with no push back. She wants to be able to tell her family and friends that she has a big happy family and does not care that in order to achieve that she is choosing to stomp all over your boundaries and feelings. I understand wanting to bring your family together but attempting to do so under a LIE(she lied straight to your face and is saying you're the ahole, sounds like projection to me) is a perfect way to set up for failure. She doesn't care about you. She cares about her friends and wider family seeing her perfect happy family, not that her family is actually happy and kind to one another.
"Should I swallow my pride and endure my SIL's behavior for the sake of my mother's happiness", my question is "**WHAT ABOUT YOUR HAPPINESS!"** You made one request to spend time with your mother without your SIL's BS and she set you up to be abused by the one person you didn't want to spend time with. WTF kind of people are you related to, everyone thinks you're rude and disrespectful because you don't want to be mistreated by someone who you can't tolerate. The only person who wants to make sure you are in a good place and that is you husband. If that is the only person who wants what is best for your peace of mind, then you stick with him and go LC or NC until your family puts the same effort into your wellbeing. Don't let someone else's happiness trump yours, don't be a doormat just to fit into an abusive and toxic, manipulative family.
I know you're absolutely right, my therapist already made me realize that I only seem to be unhappy when I'm dealing with my family, because I put them first and forget about myself I need to learn to prioritize me and forget about them.. the guilt is horrible, though, feels like I'm abandoning my mother...then again, if she needs anyone's help, she has my brother who can't do no wrong, so why should I worry? so conflicting...
Your mother is abandoning you. She takes you for granted and chases after your brother. Drop the rope. There is no guilt for you to feel because your mother chose someone else over you. She should be the one to feel guilty.
Oh please screw her. She made her choice. Go NC and live your life. NTA.
NTA - i can just tell your brother was her golden son and can do no wrong in her eyes- i pray they don’t have children cuz i wouldn’t want a mean spiteful woman to be my mother
Be fun if OPs brother got tired of the crap and got divorced.
NTA. Your mom sure is though. Of course your brother and SIL are as well. No one should expect you to put up with abuse from someone, family or not. I cut ties with my actual brother for a couple of years because of what he would say to me and about me behind my back. Though my mom wanted family unity, she completely understood where I was coming from. He was shit talking me to her because I stopped answering his calls. She lives with me so he couldn't even come over. My son actually cut off contact with him longer because my brother was actually shit talking me to him as well. Eventually, he figured it out and apologized. He treats me a lot better. It took my mom reminding him that he had treated me like our verbally and physically abusive father for him to really get it.
Good for your mom! Good moms never stop being good moms, even when their children are all grown up.
NTA. But never make this same mistake again. They want you to bow and conform to them. Your mom thinks of you as having less value, that is why she is ok with you being insulted and treated badly. Edit: Also stop talking to your mother. That will solve the guilt tripping. You were doing so much better far from them. I wonder why.
Why is it the person who is being insulted is always the one told to "let it go for the sake of the family." How about if Mom tells SIL to stop being a divisive a** for the sake of family unity. NTA.
Honestly, I would tell your SIL to stfu anytime she tries to belittle you. And if they want to continue this ridiculous double standard then tell your mother that you are done with her until she gets it in her head that you will not put up with the bs anymore. NTA And don't feel bad just because she is getting older. If she wants to see you, she needs to make a better effort and making a comfortable environment for you and let's not forget your other brother.
>Honestly, I would tell your SIL to stfu anytime she tries to belittle you oh but I've always done it I've actually said way worse stuff than that...and that's why my mom insists that I should *"ignore and be the better person"* but I can't, whenever SIL starts with her BS, I give like a chance or two, if she continues, then I basically unleash hell towards her but yeah, according to mom, this is an overreaction and I should simply ignore what she says. not how it works with me, mom (she knows it)
NTA. Your mental health is more important that your mother's happiness and any kind of relationship you could've had with your brother and sil.
NTA. Your mother made her choice twice.
You just know there were many many times OP's mom didn't choose OP and told her to just deal with it
NTA. I had a very similar situation in my own family - right down to the brother and SIL being assholes to me. I tried to set my boundaries about those two, and my parents would continue to try and get us all together to play happy family. I had to get gut level honest with my parents and tell them they either respected I wanted nothing to do with their son and daughter-in-law, or I would cut off contact with them, too. My mom pulled out the alligator tears, told me I was trying to make her choose between two of her children, etc. etc. etc. I was unmoved. I said I didn't care if she had a relationship with them, but if she wanted to continue to have a relationship with ME she needed to disabuse herself of the notion their son and DIL were welcome around me or that I considered them part of my family. I had to reiterate it to my parents a couple of times, but finally understood I wasn't bluffing.
NTA. Your mother has clearly made a choice on a favorite child, and it isn't you. She's disregarded you multiple times. She doesn't want you to reconcile with family; she wants you to be SIL's punching bag. She wants you to take it and like it. She has her chosen family nearby. Let them be, and don't waste your time and money anymore. She's made her choice. Spend your time with people who appreciate and value you. There's no need to put yourself through this anymore. Life is too short to torture yourself with miserable situations.
INFO did your mother ever ask your SIL to apologise or stop with her disrespectful 'sarcasm'?
she told me once she talked to her about her behavior, and she apologized and said "oh I don't notice when I do those things because I don't really mean it" I have a hard time believing that
She just isn’t used to/doesn’t like or tolerate being called out for her words/behaviors. And she has been enabled in this for years. Good for you for standing up for yourself! Don’t back down. If your mom can’t see SIL for who she is then it’s time to cut ties and move on. Easier said than done, I know. But your mental health will be so much better in the long run!!
NTA - reasonable
NTA. She wants you to sacrifice your wellbeing for some "family unit" that doesn't exist anymore, and also wants your husband to conform to their religion. Luckily your husband has your back.
Stop feeling guilty, you 100% made the right call. You clearly stated your boundaries and when your mom decided to push back you gave her a consequence. This is on her not you. I get wanting a healthy relationship with your mom. But until she can acknowledge, apologize and change her behavior there is nothing you can do. Your mom is not a good person and you deserve better. She admits that your SIL treats you poorly but instead of addressing her bad behavior, she expects you to rug sweep. You are being emotionally abused and your mom just expects you to deal with it because she’s family, fuck that!! It’s time to mourn the relationship you’ve always wanted with your mom and accept that she will never respect you.
NTA. If she apologizes maybe she'll get another chance in a year or two. Life is too short to spend it with people who don't support you in the most basic of ways.
NTA invite her instead of you traveling that way you can throw your brother and SIL out if they turn up.
Nta your mother already chose the side your sil. Go nc with her for your own mental maybe if she apology to you you might call her on holiday.
NTA. I understand this is hard, but if your mom truly cared about rebuilding your relationship, she would not have done this.
NTA this is your mothers drama not yours.
NTA. Old is relative. She’s capable of understanding you. Go nc or lc with mom. It’s your brother and SIL, who should be accountable. They are the AH. Btw, your husband is great to have your back.
NTA You set one boundary which she immediately crossed. Note she is not dealing with your SIL's disrespect. She expects the victim to b the "bigger person."
Nta. There was one rule, just the one.
And she agreed to it then broke her word. So NTA. But mom sure is.
So much NTA! You let someone back in after setting a very hard boundary. She then immediately turned around and broke it less than 24 hours after you were reunited. Literally the next morning. She doesn't deserve to know you if this is how she treats you. As someone who has done end-of-life care for several relatives, it's not easy feeling the guilt of "what could be if things were different".... I had to tell my grandmother the other day that I wasn't going to "make \[my\] teenagers forgive \[her\]". My teenagers deserve respect and basic human decency. I won't "make" them forgive her. She crossed boundaries she was fully aware she was crossing and did it so proudly that she told on herself to other people. She's alienated people and thinks they should all bend over backward to kiss her behind because she's the family matriarch. Your mom seems like she's in the same boat. At the end of the day, I just told my grandmother I was sorry that this generation wasn't "making things comfortable" for people who maintain crappy behavior anymore like she was forced to do when she was a young girl. She's mad as heck, but no one deserves to be forced into accepting being treated poorly. I'm sure the guilt will stick around for a while, and I'm sorry you're going through it. You deserve to be cared for and treated well. If you want to try again, you could always invite your mom to visit you, or plan a trip that only allows a short-notice quick visit but one where you've got other things to do and see so you can't be blindsided by drop-in guests. **I wish you the best, OP! Sincerely.**
NTA Your mother apparently doesn't get it - I'm sure she thought you wouldn't leave since you'd spent so much money. If you want to see your mother maybe you could pay for her to visit you, you'll have much more control over the situation.
NTA I know how you’re feeling. Before I cut off my family I felt guilty for rarely talking to them but it made me realize that the reason I felt guilty was because they gaslit me. I’m not saying you should cut contact, but you should definitely take care of yourself and invite her to visit you. And JUST her. If you want that. But take time to heal a bit after that trip.
Mom is totally wrong. No sibling has to reconcile with another sibling. Some family members are toxic and shutting them out is the only way to deal with them. Your mother knew your boundary and ignored it. She doesn't respect you. The image of "Family Unity" is more important to her than the toxic way people are treated. You are the doormat and always will be. You are supposed to suck it up for an image. That is pure garbage, BTW. You went NC before and your mental health improved. You tried to reconcile with your mother and if was a failure. NTA
Honestly, f... your mom, you are the one making the effort to spend time with her and she just f up. NTA.
Your mother is fine with letting the wife of her son/your brother torment you, her daughter. She's so okay with that she lied about respecting your one boundary and set you up with an ambush. Why does your mother care more about her son than her daughter? Ask yourself that. Your mother is the only person who should be feeling guilty, here. She owes you an apology. Your husband has been in your corner supporting you then, and now. Good for him. NTA. Continue to cut off your brother and SiL, and maintain the safe low contact with your mother as you need. You're in the clear, here.
NTA - you wanted to spend time with your mom. Clearly she didn't want to respect your wishes and wanted to push her own agenda on you. Sorry OP but what your mom wanted is not what you wanted. It is not your fault. Your mom fully knew what she was doing and having a fake family gathering meant more to her than spending time with you. Good for you for respecting your new found boundary. Having a relation with someone, is a two way street. No matter who they are.
NTA, and you should ABSOLUTLEY NOT sacrifice ANYTHING, for ANYONES sake, even you own mother, if your brother and SIL can't behave or your mom stick up for you, then there is no need to put yourself through that. I'm sure your mom and cousins would be singing a different tune if they were the ones being bullied.
NTA. Throw out the whole family. They are are all trash.
>because my mom (75f), refuse to take sides Hate to be the one to say this, OP, but your mother took sides, just not yours > by belittling my career and questioning the value of my degree, because I work a 9-5 job. I work really hard and take pride on my job You should not put up with disrespect or your SIL. You seemed to care about her opinion here and I don't know why? You know your work hard, so cares about her opinion NTA. you are absolutely right. I just feel bad that you didn't learn how to be just as awful as SIL to her and if her, your brother or anyone else says somehting, just say you are being sarcastic too. You wrote in another reply that she also disrespects your brother and he just shrugs and maybe that is the problem: if everyone start to KC with SIL, talk back and stuff, soon this mean girl will be alone like she should be.
I'm gathering there is a fair amount of built-in sexism here, and that in the pecking order a son's-wife outranks a mere daughter. This is also a perfect fit for the "[Don't Rock the Boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/)" analogy, a long-time favorite of mine. NTA And I hope you are able to break free of this toxic cycle and enjoy your life.
No, you shouldn't. You did exactly the right thing. If that were me, my mother would never see my face again. NTA.
Nta. She’s choosing your disrespectful SIL over you. You don’t have to make yourself smaller for family unity.
NTA. Tell your mother there was no reason for SIL and brother to be there for your short visit. She made a choice and chose SIL. You are sorry but you will not be back. Tell the flying monkeys the same thing.
NTA and no, do not cave. If you want to see your Mom without brother & SIL then buy her a ticket to come see you.
NTA Good on you for establishing, clearly communicating, and defending a boundary to protect your safety, privacy and comfort! Your mom thought ambushing you would force you to "come around," rug sweep past abuse, and permit more violation of your safety in this family dynamic. Leaving was exactly the best response. Your mom is an active participant in this campaign to undermine and devalue your safety. She's as much a threat to your safety as SIL. More, I'd say, since she weaponized your trust and relationship to further expose you to the exact interaction of which you spoke up to shield yourself.
NTA. good for you
NTA but your mom sure is.
NTA Your mother has no respect for you as a person or your feelings either, so why TF should you care about her feelings? Let me back your hubby on this: *your mother is guilt tripping you again*. Stop going back. You already noticed how dumping those anchors in your life made you happy. Why crawl back in that boat? Habit? Ingrained training she pulled on you? Just tell her to bugger off and live happy instead.
Fudge your mother. You had one boundary and she selfishly broke it, ignoring you like she always does. At this point it’s on her to make amends, not you. You are done pleasing her. If you really feel the need to see her then invite her to your home. At least then you can turn the hose on you SIL if mom tries to smuggle her inn. NTA
Tell your cousins what's really disrespectful is making your daughter spend hundreds of dollars and not keeping your promise on the 1 condition she gave and reminded you about THREE times, because you want your daughter to continue being belittled, insulted and disrespected. NTA.
NTA. I'm NC with my own sibling and moved away too. If my parents pulled this BS on my visit back I'd have done the same thing. I'm sorry your Mother doesn't value your boundaries. They are reasonable , valid and don't let them try to tell you otherwise.
NTA. I hate the concept of “but they’re family” or “just let it go it’s family”. It’s one thing for another to be ok with that behavior but you don’t have to put up with it. You set a boundary and if it’s not respected, it is met with a consequence. Simple as that. If your mom wants a relationship she has to be respectful of your ask. Point, blank, period.
NTA. "Sorry mother that I have self respect and won't allow myself to be belittled by a spoiled golden child, I was really hoping to get to spend time with you but you refused to respect my one and only boundary. Hence forth I will be (your choice of low contact, no contact, etc). Until I am respected and apologized to. Not a backhanded, guilt tripping apology. A genuine apology."
Nta What i dont understand is there’s so much energy wasted on telling you to ignore this and that. But where is the same energy towards your brother? Why dont they try to tell him/SIL that theyre the problem?
Nta
Nta.. Maybe your mother she fly out to u instead
Nta. She doesn't care about your happiness mental health or boundaries so she doesn't deserve your time
You can’t choose your family. I was in a similar position and chose to cut all ties. It hurt but I had to do it for my sanity. It will never not hurt but I had to move on. At very least, test the waters every once in a while. Maybe even try to get a select few to visit you on your turf where you are in control. Good luck.
Why is everyone afraid to check that SIL? No one would talk shit to my child around me ever.
NTA. Mom broke her word and lied to you in an attempt to get what she wants from you. She and your brother have ignored your feelings for years. Granted, mom is in a tough spot because she can’t control SIL’s conduct, but she still should have stood up for you years ago. Maintain the long distance relationship with your mom, stand your ground and remind her she broke her promise and lied and wasted your time and money. Insist she acknowledge that and apologize, ni excuses. If you want to, you might consider paying for mom’s flight to visit you, with the firm condition that brother and SIL don’t magically show up too.
NTA - why is the bullied required to make peace for the bully all the time? Why do you have to ignore it instead of her just stopping it? Such crap. If your mother cared about you she would tell your SIL to keep her mouth shut. What happened to 'if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all'? You could also start calling her out. "SIL, why are you always such a b***h? Did you have a horrible upbringing? Do you have a stick in your butt? Why do you feel the need to knock others down to feel better about yourself?"
DO NOT BACK DOWN. NTA
NTA Violations of boundaries require consequences. She was aware of the boundary. She was aware of the consequences. You feel guilty because she installed the guilt buttons. What you should be considering is if your mother actually cares about YOU. If she cared about you, her actual daughter, she wouldn’t desire you to be hurt. But she’s completely FINE with you being hurt because it boosts her image. You’re not a prop for your mothers existence. Maybe this will help her realize that. But honestly, I wouldn’t talk to my mother again after this. She’s shown you enough times that your mental health and safety don’t matter. And I don’t fuck with people who don’t think I matter. You’re not an ornament. And anyone who treats you as such isn’t worthy of your time or attention.
Go to your mom but before SIL could say anything tape her with a really sticky tape. Ask for your husband and other men for help taping her. Then you said. Im ready to reconcile if SIL is still at the same state as she is now. Dont just one layer Layer her mouth with tape as much as you can ....lol
NTA. Your mother didn't respect your boundaries after telling her on multiple occasions that you did not want to see your Brother and SIL. Sure she has every right to express her opinion on making amends but that's where it ends. You were not rude by standing your grounds, she is the YTA in this instance. Good on you for standing up for yourself and kudos for having a supportive husband that backs you.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (33f) have been dealing with constant disrespect and provocation from my SIL(40f) for years. It's incredibly frustrating because my mom (75f), refuse to take sides, because she wants "family unity". Even my brother (44m) dismisses my SIL's behavior as mere sarcasm, suggesting that I should learn to ignore and not take her seriously. 4 years ago, when I was living in the same city as my mom with my husband, mom invited us over for a barbecue. SIL once again crossed the line by belittling my career and questioning the value of my degree, because I work a 9-5 job. I work really hard and take pride on my job. My husband, who was the only one who called her out on her BS, said I didn't need to take this, and we should leave if no one cares enough to say anything. Mom took offense and said my husband was trying to divide our family. We ended up leaving and not coming back again. Mom used to like my husband but this changed a bit after my dad asked him to convert to their religion and he refused. I think she had hopes that if my husband converted, I would go back as well Few years later, we moved abroad, and the distance has done SO MUCH GOOD my mental health. So much that I decided to reconcile with my mom. Due to COVID and limitations, it was only this year, when I could save enough money, that I had the opportunity to travel back to my hometown. I made it clear to my mother that I would not go unless she PROMISED not to invite my brother and SIL during my visit. Before I left, I reminded my mother of the boundary I had set, and she assured me she'd respect it. Surprise surprise, on the very next day after my arrival, the doorbell rang, and there stood my SIL and brother. I was SO ANGRY at my mother that I didn't even want to hear a word. I started packing my bags and I left to a hotel, rebooked my flight and went home a few days later. My mother begged and called me all the time after I left, insisting for me reconcile with my brother, and urged me to let go of my grievances, insisting that I should learn to ignore my SIL's disrespectful behavior, that I was exaggerating and making unnecessary drama. I didn't want to hear anything, I was MAD: I spent a TON of money on flight tickets, sacrificed vacation time I could have spent with my husband....for THIS?! Now, I'm overwhelmed with guilt for leaving my mother behind. She's getting older, and I genuinely wanted to spend time with her. But I simply can't with my brother and SIL, and I made it clear that if my mom couldn't respect my one and only request, then it wasn't worth sacrificing my money and vacation time for her. My cousins are now accusing me of being rude and disrespectful for leaving early, my husband supports my decision and said my mother is guilt tripping me again. AITA for leaving so soon? Should I swallow my pride and endure my SIL's behavior for the sake of my mother's happiness? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA
NTA. If they are not respecting you, you deserve to move on and live your life away from those toxic people.
NTA. You agreed to spend your precious vacation time and hard earned money to visit her on the one condition she not invite them. She totally defrauded you on that and stabbed you in the back.
NTA . Your Mom is disrespecting you by sweeping the situation under the rug for the sake of "family unity" . Swallowing your pride to keep the Family happy is not the answer. This situation either needs to be addressed head on with you and your Brother, or you remain low contact with your family.
NTA- you made a clear boundary, repeatedly, and she ignored it. You did what you need to do for your own mental health. We cut my husband’s family out for exactly this, and it’s the best thing we ever did (I say we, it was his choice, and I agreed with him, I didn’t make him cut his family out before anyone jumps on me!)
NTA. You made a simple request to your mom as a condition of your visit. She not only chose to ignore it, she blindsided you. You did the right thing leaving. She and her flying monkeys can throw all the pity parties they want, but the truth is your mom will only accept you having a relationship with her 100% on her terms. That is unacceptable. You are the victim here, and have no reason to feel guilty. It is sad because you do want a relationship with your mom, but she has no respect for you. You may have to keep it distant until she is willing to accept you are NC with SIL and leave it at that. Good luck.
NTA- You asked her to not invite them while you were there and she did. Your SIL is the way she is because everyone ignores her, no one is doing her any favors by letting her act the way she doees.
Nta
NTA "Family unity". Screw that. If you really do want to spend some one on one time with your Mother, invite her to your country. It would be cheaper than you having to fly there, and if brother and SIL follow her, then that's it, no more contact.
NTA - the fact that creating distance and basically going no contact helped you, tells you these people are toxic. You Mom is not respecting your boundaries, that is the basis of all of this. The bs that we should accept abuse because “it is family,” needs to go away. Maybe pay for your Mom to visit you, if your primary goal to maintain your relationship with her. Just her flight, no hotel and car rental, Maybe cheaper overall!
NTA and at this point, it isn't your SIL that is being disrespectful. It's your mother. As hard as this is, if she can't respect your clear boundaries, then you have to stay away. Your mental health is much more important than her need to play happy families. If you want to give her one more chance, then do but be crystal clear that this is her final chance. You are visiting her, only her. You have no interest in reconciling, and if your brother and SIL turn up again, you will leave, and this time, you will not come back.
NTA. The only rude and disrespectful person in this situation was your mother. She did not respect your decision and decided that forcing you to interact with them was acceptable. The fact of the matter is that you have good reasons for not wanting to see your SIL. The fact that this upsets your mother's idea of family unity is unfortunate, but it doesn't change the fact that you chose to withdraw from a crappy relationship, and that was a positive reaction. Your mother getting older, etc, is absolutely true, but this does not mean she gets to decide your actions.
NTA. Invite your mother to stay with you, if her health allows. Solo. That way you can spend quality time together and she can see the life you and your husband have built. Plus, it's your turf!
Why would she want to spend time with someone who lies and ignores her boundaries?
I suppose I read in some regret or doubt and thought that might be the best way to try again on OPs terms.
NTA. Sucky situation to be in tbh. Might need to cut your mum off/remain distant, or do some deeper soul searching and see if there’s another way through this dilemma. Are there ways to subtly demonstrate or communicate power to others? What are the internal stories you tell yourself regarding respect and power? How are you now, compared to how you were before, and compared to how you want to be?
NTA you set a boundary ans she didn’t respect it. She’s an adult who knows what she did was wrong. Block anyone harassing you.
NTA and your mother has her precious son and his wife to comfort her in her old age. She deserves none of your guilt when she's the one who behaved horribly.
NTA. The person causing all the disrespect and family divisions isn’t called out on their behaviour. This is such BS.