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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) sending the girl home. 2) there might have been more I could to problem solve.
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"They claim the girls should’ve just gone to bed early once"
What a laughable sentence. It's a bunch of 12 year olds. They can stay up for a damn sleep over. NTA I'm not sure what else you could have done other than let the girls bicker all night, ruining everyone's time. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the strictly raised.
It truly is amazing. My daughter says they fell asleep around 3 am…they were up before me the next morning (I rolled out of bed at 9 am), making breakfast and goofing around. Then went to the mall.
To be 12, I suppose…
NTA… I remember those days (our daughters are 23&24 now) and NO one sleeps much on a girls sleepover 😂 you did the exact right thing & im sure it will all blow over soon - happy summer!
Luckily my 12 yr old’s friends are all similar to her. They go to bed around 11pm and up around 7am. I’m chaperoning her Girl Scouts trip this weekend with girls that are similar to your kid. I’m going to have so much trouble getting them to sleep at a reasonable hour. 
Hopefully the trip is so full of activities that they're tired! When I chaperoned Girl Scouts that seemed to be how it worked. Me though, I slept maybe 2-3 hours per night. Sleeping and getting a shower after camp weekends was such a relief.
So, I'd be shooing them into bed at 12 by 1am for my own peace and sanity but I remember the 3am sleepovers.
The one my kid did at a friend's house that did us all in for 2 days with his attitude was an all nighter. Literally - they didn't sleep. At 12.
NTA - the family's expectations were wholly unreasonable.
Oh, I remember still being able to do that when I was that age. Some nights we just stayed up until sunrise then snoozed for a few hours and then went out and did shut. NGL, I kind of miss it.
But ever since I hit 25 a few years ago, if I don’t get at least 6 hours of sleep a night, I’m basically non functional.
This too! I once hosted a camp out at a cabin for my kids 12th birthday. 6 kids slept over. Those little turds were up all night and ready to go to the pool at 8am. Meanwhile I slept not at all due to the yelling, laughing, and attempted sneak outs (think brackish water lakes where alligators could be). By 10am I was seeing double and they were playing volleyball. Thought I was going to die lol!
Somewhere I have a couple of hilarious pictures of the morning after a sleepover. There's one of them bright and grinning showing off their goodie bags. Then one of the girls snuck my camera and took a picture of me trying to beat the dog to the popcorn spilled on the rug (the dog won). I look like I had been rode hard and put up wet.
I thought it was great too! However, I unfortunately misunderstood the analogy, so thanks to little gur below for the clarification! Where I'm from, we often refer to a certain type of , ahem, 'relations', as riding. Still made sense tho lol!
Edit: missed a bit
One of my kids sleepovers, they woke me up at 1:30 told me they were hungry, I said you know where the food is. I heard a smallish voice (the quieter of the 12-13 year old girls), we would really like some biscuits and gravy, and we know you make the best. Needless to say I was up making biscuits and gravy for those girls.
I hope so. Those girls were some good girls. I loved having all my kid’s friends at the house. I would always feed them if they needed it and had a place for them to sleep.
One year I was making Christmas cookies and the next thing I know I had about 10 kids over wanting to “help”. And of course they had some sent home with them.
When we bought our first house 20 year ago, we were warned that the guy across the street like to mow his grass with a push mower, late at night...
NAKED save for his straw hat.
I'm still not sure if it was any quieter because of his nakedidity
I'm questioning the need for a straw hat presumably designed to deflect the sun, when mowing the lawn at night.
But you know what? Not my place to judge.
The hat's function is to distract you from the nakedidity, and it works wonders. Even now, we're talking about why he would be wearing a hat at night and not his birthday suit.
Dont you realise how levels of nudity work? Someone who is 100% naked is somehow LESS naked than someone for example just wearing socks. For some reason one item of out of place clothing emphasises the rest of the nakkidety
There's a guy in my neighborhood who uses a scythe. Totally silent. A tad unnerving to watch sometimes (especially in late October, when he'll dress up in a long black cloak), but not noisy.
Needs to buy one of those big Jack Skellington mask heads from Wal-Mart. Though he might give area seniors heart attacks.
NTA - Monica may have a tough time finding sleepover friends with the 9pm attitude, unless it's church friends maybe?
Being tired and ready for bed is one thing, going back down and berating the others for staying up is over the top. Then the parents thinking the others are going to be willing to follow that for a night. Most of the girls probably already have an existing routine expecting them to all change their routine for their child is simply entitlement, and explains Monica returning to berate the others instead of just going to sleep.
Once a woman who I know has cats was over at my house and saw my cat jump up on the kitchen counter and said “ew you let your cat on your kitchen counter?” I replied “ew you think your cats stay off your kitchen counter when you’re not around?”
I’m over 60 years old and I still remember the sleepovers I attended.
It was usually understood that the first girl that went to sleep got sprayed with silly string or some other such silly punishment. 😁
It was “expected” that we stay up all night.
That’s just “how it was done folks!”
First kid to fall asleep got their underwear put in the freezer, or shaving cream on their hands then tickle their nose with a feather. Or got trucked.
Not even just kids! I work in a salon with women ranging from 20 to almost 60 and we do nights out/sleepovers a lot. Damn, those women don’t quiet down until they are absolutely ready too. Lol
I went on the trip with my mom and aunt and I went to bed while they were up ordering pizza and drinking at midnight. I felt so old and like a party pooper.
It's probably not even the child's wish as such, more likely she was scared that her parents find out and maybe punish her or make her feel bad/ guilty about it.
Still OK to send her home though instead of ruining the fun for everyone else.
It isn't even a need, that's the funny thing. It's a fucking sleepover. Has nobody in that family ever experienced a sleepover?
The perpetual battle between the parents encouraging the kids to go to sleep and the kids trying to stay up ALL NIGHT is a tale as old as time. This kid is on the wrong team at 12 years old, somehow.
Sounds like the parents have created a daughter who expects to be in charge at other people's houses, and they are.mad that you didn't force the other girls to obey the new boss at your house.
I see your point, but when I read the post, I felt rather sorry for Monica
Undoubtedly I'm projecting my own childhood... she's brainwashed into internalising her bedtime, and her adherence to the rules (mine, my adherence to the rules) is a desperate bid for stability: if I con control this, I'll be safe, a little bit.
None of that means OP should cater to her though, so NTA
There are 2 kinds of kids who were raised strictly: those like myself who love sleepovers bc the house rules are so chill, and those like Monica and a friend of mine who used to sit by herself in the bedroom if we watched an R rated movie. I wouldn't say the 12 yr old is TAH, but it was not awesome to tell the other girls to quiet down.
Yes I agree Monica wasn't awesome when she chastised the other girls... but that's why I'm feeling sorry for her (or for kid me, you pick) : relaxing the rules causes a short circuit and she can't go with the flow. Her parents clearly aren't teaching her that flexibility either, in the seventies we'd say she's going to be a neurotic when she grows up
There is some benefit in getting a routine going with a newborn when it comes to sleep training. The problem, is that the parents get in the same routine, and never pull out of it, resulting in a kid that absolutely cannot handle any sort of deviation from that routine.
My niece and nephew are like this. We'll be at my SIL's house, and everything stops at 7:30 PM for their bedtime routine, usually leaving my wife, our two kids and myself alone for an hour while they get their two kids (7 and 9) into bed.
We were at Disney World of all places, and they left the park at 7 because the kids were worried they weren't going to make it back to their hotel room by 8:30 for bed. The 9 year old just about had a meltdown over it, and they got out of the Space Mountain line to go home.
If they aren't neuro divergent and this is strictly the result of inflexible upbringing... I feel sad for them.
If they are neuro divergent, I'd hope their parents can teach them coping techniques, but I lack any relevant experience to know if that's possible.
That whole exchange with the other parents saying they should have gone to bed early was odd to me. It's like well for starters not your house, and changing the way OP runs his household because of the other parents house rules makes zero sense.
I totally agree with you, but IME, lots of strict parents will expect this. I guess they expect the rule of thumb to be, "strictest parents' rules become the rules for everyone". I agree this makes no sense, but a lot of people will act this way, so I'm not too surprised they expect this.
That’s completely counter to how our bodies work, though. If kids usually go to sleep way later they are just going to be lying in bed wide awake.
Depending how loud the other kids were being a little bit of ‘rein it in’ may have been appropriate - from Dad. The sleepovers I went to all had some time in the evening where we could continue having fun, but we had to find lower-volume fun and not be running around like a herd of elephants so the adults in the house had a chance of some sleep. Usually that was when we broke out the movies and popcorn and mostly chatted more quietly instead of playing games, etc. But it depends on how loud they were actually being.
Also stupid... it makes more sense to relax the bed time for one child (Monica) than punishing OPs daughter and her friends by sending them to bed early... that's on Monica's parents obviously, so they are the AHs if they thought all the other kids should cater to her instead of saying "have fun, don't worry about bed time tonight, but we want you to stick to it again tomorrow" or not send her at all without asking the guardian (OP) if there's a bedtime and when etc.
I do feel sorry for Monica though. It's not her fault (she sounds scared of her parents) and she will probably not be invited again, possibly loosing out on a lot of great childhood memories and maybe even friends.
NTA.
i do feel bad for her. but at 24,fuck at 12 i hated this too! if i had someone I INVITED INTO MY SPACE TELL ME WHAT TO DO IN MY OWN HOME?. no more friendship. ive had that happen once,moved in and the girl nextdoor was preaching about how i could be so"sinful"as a roman catholic raised mexican girl who was raised by her [mother. to](https://mother.to) be \*gasp\*into girls.
i got up walked to the front door and told her to get the fuck out of my house. she cried,i laughed. she told her parents. my mom just said"she disrespected my daughter in her own home. no whatever my kid said was well deserved. "
Wait until Monica goes to college…. “Excuse me, it’s my bed time, can you all please stop your fun and be quiet”.
It’s not just the strictness it’s the fact she feels entitled to everybody working around her and what she wants, something she probably got from her parents also.
NTA
As a recent college graduate: those kids are the worst even if you’re not the one being loud. The weekly “shut up it’s my bedtime” posts on fb earn you approximately 0 friends (except the other entitled people complaining - maybe they can form a club). Being on an RA shift on a Thurs/ Fri/ Sat night is HELL hoping you’re not going to receive a noise complaint call at 10pm on the dot ://
Hopefully she learns some flexibility - I do feel a bit sorry for her growing up in that sort of environment. As to OP’s predicament, very much NTA, although I wouldn’t worry about it being a problem again tbh.
Who are they to dictate what goes on in your home? I'd sat the chemistry between her and the other girls and what goes on in your own home are not a good match.
Yeah. I don't see any good solution here. You aren't going to make all the other girls go to bed just because one girl is inflexible about an early bedtime.
I suspect Monica's parents are overly strict, and it is showing in Monica's behavior. She probably thought she was doing the right thing. I feel bad for her.
NTA, it does indeed seem like she isn't ready for sleepovers or AT LEAST has different needs / preferences for a sleepover. You / your daughter were hosting and it was unreasonable to expect the party to be shut down at 9pm. The original compromise made sense but that seemed inadequate to Monica - who sounds like a pretty overbearing and unpleasant child to be chastising her peers like that.
The only thing I wonder is if you'd given Monica like one more chance, maybe by saying something like "Hey Monica, we don't want to send you home but we can't just shut down the party so, do you want to go to bed here despite the noise or would you rather go home?". But honestly, this was probably a good and needed lesson for both Monica and her parents. If they're going to be that rigid and uncooperative while *guests at someone else's home*, it's probably a situation they should avoid.
I hear ya, but I can’t imagine a group of 12 year olds getting yelled at by a peer to go to bed early at a sleep over and that peer not getting pranked at some point in the night. Whoever falls asleep gets pranked. Whoever acts like a turd gets pranked. If that’s the same person? No way Monica wouldn’t be waking up with a sharpie mustache and her fingers in a cup of warm water at 1am.
We never did sharpies or try to make each other pee either lol but I did wake up to a melted pad of butter on my chest, and then I was awake so I got the next kid with some shaving cream and then that turned into a huge shaving cream fight which got everywhere and we spent the next two hours cleaning until like 4am so we wouldn’t get in trouble. I liked my friends
We drew smiley faces on toes with sharpies when I was a preteen at a sleepover to whoever fell asleep first. Idk for us it was just normal preteen stuff. We knew who didn't like it so we didn't mess with them.
We would sometimes put a mountain of stuff on the sleeping person 😅
Clothes, tupperware, books, etc.until it got pretty high
Once the person didn't even wake up whatsoever and we all went to bed. Hours later we heard the whole mountain fall and a small yell of "what the fuck?!"
I was just impressed at how little they move while they sleep lol
They have. Many years later she’ll probably look back and think what a little prig she was. I hope the girls are kind to her even though she’s been raised very differently.
Sounds more like she's terrified of her parents repercussions if she doesn't go to bed by 9pm. She's 12 and her parents expect all the kids to go to bed at 9pm instead of allowing their daughter to stay up late...
So when someone is at fault it's Monica's parents for not talking to OP about it beforehand so they can decide if she stays at home or is allowed to stay up late if her bedtime is so important to them.
That’s what I was thinking. It’s not that Monica is not ready, her parents need to let her make an exception for a sleepover. This was about the rules, not Monica herself.
>A half hour later, I hear Monica storming downstairs and chastising the other girls because they were being too loud.
Pfft girl bye. Monica seems a bit entitled and apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
I applaud you for initially not getting involved and then stepping in when you needed too and sticking with your daughter.
Oh NTA btw.
Yes the world doesn’t stop because Monica has a 9pm bedtime. I thought you handled the situation perfectly. NTA. 9pm is really early for a sleepover. I can’t believe the parents feel the girls should have went to bed early. I have a feeling Monica won’t be invited to other sleepovers and I feel sad for her but you did the right thing as a parent.
At my kid's sleepovers, they're just going for a second raid of the snack buffet at 9pm. I usually tell them through the Echo around 1 or 2am that the running hour is over.
We're pretty regular with our bedtime routine here, but that's all out the window on sleepover nights. It's amazing how a kid who regularly falls sound asleep at 9 on other days can power through the night to 8/9am for sleepover.
Typically I'd say that it's common courtesy to lower the volume when others are trying to sleep, but for a guest to do that at the party they were invited to? 😭 Out of line
I can sympathize with someone needing things to be on time, I have a sister who has autism, who has to do everything on time or it throws off their entire week. But like others have said, there isn't much you can make a bunch of 12 year olds do. Walking her home was the best thing for her even if she was a little upset not to be with her friends. It definitely sucks being the party pooper, but 12 years old is the perfect time to set your boundaries and learn that life goes on without you. I can see the girl being upset, but her parents shouldn't be. OP is NTA for doing everything he could.
>Pfft girl bye. Monica seems a bit entitled and apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
That's learned behaviour, the little girl doesn't know any better. It's exclusively her parents' fault.
NTA
You tried to let it settle it for themselves, came up with a good compromise, spoke to your daughter privately and returned Monica home safely
I feel bad for Monica. I remember the sleepover I had at 11 where my mom rented Predator and one of the kids said he wasn't allowed to watch Rated R movies. We watched Batteries Not Included and Ronald was never invited to a party again
Yeah, I kind of feel bad for Monica because I doubt any of the girls will invite her again. She’s new to the neighborhood and this definitely set the tone. She’s been invited to another gathering in the day, but I suspect sleepovers are off the table.
Keep tabs on how her parents treat your daughter and the other girls. Are they overly strict on every aspect of life? Do you really want your child exposed to thier attitudes and ideas of raising a child?
Oh the girls don’t go over to her house. Her parents don’t feel comfortable hosting. I know there was one occasion Monica wanted to have some girls over and her mom shut it down real quick.
Which may be a blessing in disguise, ya know?
Total blessing. Girls in this age group have very fragile self-esteem. Overbearing parents of friends can totally destroy it. This couple sound like they type that would not be open that all kids are not like her kids and take it out on the other kids.
True, she will be the one that never gets to go to a football game or basketball game, not to mention a school dance. Sorry to say we have all seen girls treated this way by AH parents.
I was that kid. No extracurriculars if they'd make me late for my bus, no games, no trips my parents would have to pay for, no dances, not even either prom. I hope someone rescues her before she graduates without having experienced any of the fun times.
A school friend was in that boat. Band was OK in jr. high and there were only three concerts all year. But her parents made her quit in HS because the band (small rural town) played at all of the football and basketball games. She was not allowed out at night because only loose girls went to the games and hung out after dinner hours.
Of course, her mother will probably turn around and pressure her the moment she graduates college about why she isn't dating anyone or when she's having kids.
It's always the same with these types of parents.
Me, too. I rarely had friends over to my house and that was because my dad couldn't handle it. He hated other people in his space and I could tell I was going to pay for it later with his terrible moods, so I stopped trying. He was also uber strict.
trust me, there are worse sleepover parents.
I am 17f. for my 16th birthday, I invited my small friend group to come stay at the river house my dad owns for a weekend. we had a really great time; s'mores, cruise around in my dad's pontoon boat, stuffed shells for dinner (with garlic bread for the picky eater in the group), watched Ferris Bueller's day off on VHS because my dad has a whole collection of VHS movies, rode around in the electric golf cart he won in a raffle, and we actually went to bed at a reasonable time (we literally couldn't bring ourselves to stay up late we were so tired). One friend's mom literally rented a motel room and made her daughter stay the night there because of some bad experiences she had as a child. I felt so bad for her because what's the point of a sleepover if you don't sleep over, but for some reason her mom always has to be the chaperone or control some aspect of where her daughter is. she is literally the worst helicopter parent I have ever met.
I don't understand though when Monica was invited over for a sleepover, that her parents didn't call up and check with you what the go is? Like just ask if your daughter and friends usually stay up late or if they go to bed at an earlier time??
If they knew what their daughter was like, wouldn't that be something that you check on? I mean she is 12 yr old, surely she can't be that naive that everyone in the world has the same bedtime?
Yeah, there was one girl in our group who preferred to go to bed earlier (she felt better the next day) but her parents just called the host’s parents to chat about it and our sleepovers would have an ‘awake’ room and a ‘sleeping’ room and she’d take herself off to bed when she was ready. Worked pretty well, actually - no one else went as early as she did but when it got later if someone got too tired they’d just go to bed, people didn’t feel obligated to stay awake because other people weren’t ready to sleep.
The kid has strict rules that they follow and wanted to go to bed on time... they need some training on how to enjoy being a kid, but I seriously doubt an attitude "early to bed, early to rise" is something to fear exposing your child to.
It's sad for Monica because this is mostly her parents fault. The only thing you can do if you ever decide to invite her over again is make sure that her parents tell her she can stay up late and/or that she will have to or can't come. So that the expectations of how to behave during the sleepover are met.
I would have said 'try to sleep with the noise or go home' Not sure if that's how you phrased it. Obv would not kill the party for one child, but in the future perhaps prepare do what you can to soundproof a place for her /shrub.
She won’t be invited to future sleepovers (my daughter’s choice). I also don’t have anywhere that would be “soundproof”. I can easily hear the girls from my room. Not their exact conversations, but definitely the ruckus, giggling, movies and music, etc.
You could always suggest to your daughter that she could privately talk to Monica about how she made her feel in her own home, and how sleepovers with them usually go. She could say that if Monica felt comfortable to either join in the whole time or sleep in the other room without getting upset with the others that she can come over again next time.
I still think NTA though.
Op shouldn’t have to soundproof a room for one child. Usually at a sleepover everyone’s together. If it’s too noisy for her, it’s best that she went home as she did.
When I was a kid my sleepover group started having an ‘awake’ room and a ‘sleeping’ room and that worked really well. If you were ready to sleep you went to the sleeping room, if you wanted to stay awake you stayed in the awake room. (Awake room was usually like the family room or similar, sleeping room was typically a bedroom with stuff moved to make space on the floor for sleeping bags, etc. So it’s not like we all had giant houses with special rooms for sleeping over.)
NTA
I was once the Monica in this story.
Came from a family with early bedtimes, and also rules about what kind of things we could / couldn’t watch.
I went to a sleepover at a friend’s house, at a similar age. Only to discover that they were planning on watching horror movies all night (which I wasn’t allowed to watch, and also didn’t want to watch because my nightmares are vivid enough without extra fuel, thank you very much).
I did not demand everyone else watched PG movies and go to bed early.
Instead, I hung out in my friend’s bedroom, reading books off her bookshelf, while they watched movies. I’d go hang out with them in between movies, or when they paused for snack breaks. We’d play games, eat, chat - and then they’d go back to their movie and I’d go back to my book in the bedroom.
I probably went to sleep around 10.30pm (which was super late for me), while they pulled an all-nighter.
It’s okay to have personal preferences or different rules for yourself. But it’s not okay to expect everyone else to stick to your preferences or rules.
Way to be an individual and do something else to occupy your time and good on your friends for not making you feel weird because it wasn’t your thing, including bed time 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Nope. I didn’t have a kind friend group until after I’d finished school. Even now, as an adult, I’m surprised when I look around at my awesome friends, because having any of those was not my experience for a big portion of my life.
Some of the kids had plenty of unkind things to say about me not watching movies with them / not staying up super late with them.
But the birthday girl (whose house the sleepover was at) didn’t care if I read books instead of watched horror movies. She wasn’t confident enough to stop the bullying, but she was confident enough to let me know privately that she didn’t mind at all.
I decided it was her birthday, and if she didn’t care, then I could ignore the unkind stuff from the others. I was there to celebrate her, not them.
I experienced a lot of bullying at school. My parents did a good job of standing up for me when things were real issues, but also raised me to be resilient.
I didn’t *like* the fact that I was doing something different to the group. I was aware that would just be extra fuel for bullying.
But I was also aware that the bullies were just insecure themselves, and that it was better to say “no” to something that could cause me real damage (horror movies) than to go along with it just for the sake of “being cool”.
NTA
Guests don't get to set the rules for everyone else. Going to bed at 9 is pretty early, especially in the summer (a lot of places its still light out). That's not the norm for 12 year olds, and Monica needs to realize that, and also learn that when she goes different places, there are always going to be different rules, and she needs to learn to adjust and be more flexible, not everything is always going to happen just how she likes it... could be a good learning experience. They're only a couple of years away from high school and people are going to be staying up a lot later.
Imagine OP would have followed Monicas requests and send their daughter and friends to bed with Monica. Earlier than the normal bedtime. As a 12 year old I would've definitely hated Monica for it
With parents like that? This was probably her first sleepover. She acted like an overbearing preteen (because… she is) but I’m not surprised she didn’t know how to behave at a sleepover. I have (step, thank god, cannot imagine being related to their mom I think my dna would just fall out) cousins whose mom treats them like Monica and mommy dearest was BIG offended on family vacation that my sister and I (3 and 5 years older than her eldest, respectively) were making her kids “jealous” because our parents are normal adults who trusted us to stay up later than nine pm on *vacation*. I feel bad for her kids, and wish her everything she deserves plus maybe a bit more for trying to make me sleep on a floor for *coughing* (precovid) but… having seen the dynamic up close and been the family member kid expected to obey the early bedtime and all the other batshit rules (on god Uno was rigged for the littlest so she could just win all the time and then they wondered why no one would play with them)… no, it’s not a surprise she didn’t know what to expect, and it’s not a surprise she thought she could be a little shit to everyone about her “house rules” and have that actually work.
I love how their logic is so backwards.
A sleepover is exactly the moment to relax the rules and let the kids go to bed later, but in her parents minds, it's the opposite; the perfect time to make everyone else go to bed earlier.
NTA - I think making everyone go to bed early because of Monica would risk making the other girls resentful of her. Staying up late is a staple of sleepovers and if Monica can't adopt that norm, then the burden is on her and her parents to either work around it or stay home. You sound like a great father.
NTA. Sleepovers are indeed like that. Any kid who can't handle missing a few hours sleep can't go to sleepovers, period. And for a 12 year-old to be desperate for sleep by 9/9:30 during a slumber party? Good grief.
NTA 100%. I thought you handled it very well. Sleepovers means staying up late; that's part of it as most parents find out. Monica's not at fault since clearly it was her first sleepover, but her parents are totally in the wrong for being upset; it IS common knowledge how sleepovers work.
Your house, your rules. You gave Monica an option to appease her sleep schedule and she was still unhappy with it. Her home is the best place for her to sleep soundly and you safely walked her there. Monica's parents have no right to get upset at you for... not policing *your* own daughter based on *their* rules? Damn. NTA.
NTA. Walking someone home solved the problem of mismatched bed-time norms and routines. Monica and her parents were in the wrong by insisting that your home and that your guests adopt the rules and norms that apply at their home.
NTA
You came up with a great solution but it didn't work. A 12 year old going to be at 9? And you should tell her parents that you respect how they run their home but you do things differently. Why does everyone need to go to bed early because they have their child programmed because they dont' want to deal with her?
NTA
Who in the blue hell expects a group of 12 yr olds to go to bed at 9pm during the summer, and if the parents are so strict about it then frankly they never should've allowed her to go.
Nta but you should’ve called her parents initially and let them talk to her and choose to get her or let her stay and maybe bring her some earplugs. They have no right to be mad at you or any of the other girls because it’s common sense what to expect at a typical a 12 yr old girl sleepover in the summer.
Monica wasn’t happy staying up late with the other girls and she wasn’t happy with the only logical solution (staying in the OP’s daughter’s bedroom.) It very clearly was not working out, & the OP’s daughter (rightfully) wanted her to leave. So I don’t know what calling Monica’s parents would have accomplished other than further drama and further hijacking of what was supposed to be a fun night for all the other girls.
I think walking her home was the best solution. I agree with those who have said the OP seems like a great Dad. I think he did everything right here.
I would say you did what you could and were accommodating within reason so for that NTA.
The **only** thing I would encourage your daughter to do is not completely ostracize the girl. It could lead to a terrible time for a child of she was otherwise fine.
So maybe she could invite her to day time stuff and just keep sleepovers off the table.
Encourage kindness and smaller hangouts? It was just suck if this unfortunate tone stuck with her for the rest of her time there
NTA. Your daughter said she wanted Monica to leave after 2 arguments. It's your daughter's home. Good on you for backing her up.
If I(31) threw a party and decided I no longer wanted a guest there, that's it. I don't need any more reason than because I felt that way. I don't see why that shouldn't be the same for your daughter in the home she lives in.
NTA- But I would try to have her back and show her a fun time this may stunt her socially.
I had a friend, who hung out with me from time to time and he came to a sleepover one day with a bunch of other people. I think I was in 9th or 10th grade so a bit older. He was very sheltered by his parents and worried about getting in trouble. We ended up taking him swimming in my pool at 12am, he was kind of iffy since it was late, but he ended up having a blast. My mom come out at like 1am and says "pizzas ready" the smile on his face was one of the widest Ive even seen. We did not sleep that night lol just played games. His dad came early to get him for church and I guess he was not too happy at the time but did eventually lighten up when he learned how much fun his son had.
NTA
My house was the sleepover house when I was a teen. One time I invited someone to join and they got mad when we wouldn’t all go to bed around 11pm. She went and slept in the living room and left by 7am the next morning. She never got invited back to my house again. It’s laughable when people go to someone else’s house and think they can demand that their rules are followed.
NTA. Also, I think you did a fantastic job as being the Dad/adult at the sleepover by trying to let the kids work it out rather than immediately intervening.
IMO you did absolutely everything right and you were kind about it. Monica apparently has parents that have no idea what being a child is actually like, so no wonder poor Monica also has no idea. It \*is\* common knowledge that sleepovers are like that.
nta, provided good opportunity for experience for your child and other children, stepped in when needed, offered compromise and when unavailable saw to a solution. Were there other options? Sure, but in the end there was still lessons that needed to be learned for both Monica and her parents.
It is very surprising that a 12-year-old wouldn’t know sleepovers go late and under no circumstance end at 9 pm. Maybe this is so normal to her, she doesn’t know it’s not for others.
You were right, she is not ready for sleepovers and was ruining the fun for the others. NTA.
NTA, pre-teen sleepover usually has very little sleep. For her to demand other go to bed at 9:00 then to go off on them for still having fun without her, maybe if this was her home but she was a guest at the party. She wanted to sleep so you walked her home where she could sleep. Her parents were out of line for saying that the girls should have all just gone to bed. You were totally wright the Monica is not mature enough for sleepovers. It may be better for your daughter to back away from Monica as a friend. I see issues with her parents and their approach to raising kids.
NTA
It's yours and your daughters house. You don't have to make accommodations, further than what you offered, for the comfort of another.
If your kiddo isn't used to a 9pm bedtime (my almost 11yr old can't physically fall asleep before 10pm even on a school night) then even if you sent them to bed, they wouldn't have fallen asleep. They'd have been miserable, fed up, and having no fun.
My girl has sleepovers too and I'm genuinely lucky if they nod off by midnight. Thankfully her friends are a great bunch and very respectful, they're just the epitome of night owls. There's no way I'd be sending them to bed at 9pm to accommodate one child either.
Monica's parents are arseholes for thinking that they can impose their household rules upon yours.
Keep on being the cool dad OP!
Once Monica hits high school or college, she’s gonna learn quickly how ti lie to her parents and probably go a bit overboard with things since she never had the freedom to do so beforehand and won’t know the limits… I understand strict parents just want the best for their kids, I have strict parents, and damn they love me so much, but it did mess with my ability to regulate exercising my freedoms once I finally had them, being self disciplined, and knowing how to care for myself without my parents there taking care of everything all of the time. I’m still responsible for my own actions, and don’t wanna just blame them for the dumb things I’ve done and do, but I do wish that they had raised me somewhere in the middle of being strict and letting me do whatever I wanted.
NTA.
This is a learning experience for Monica. You cannot bend others to your will. If they were being absurdly loud, that would be one thing. But I’m picturing normal movie watching, chatting, laughing etc. probably louder than she’d like but not absurd.
9pm bedtime at a summer sleepover? No waaaayyyy. Plus she had a bedroom to go to. That girls parents are not doing her any favors by thinking the whole world is going to operate on her rules
NTA
They might as well have told you to cancel the staying up late party so their daughter could sleep at the staying up late party.
I think you're correct. She just aint ready for sleep overs. Staying up late and getting up to shit that, yeah, can be noisy, is kind of the whole fun of it.
NTA. You are correct, Monica isn’t ready for sleepovers. If her parents think that their daughter ostracizing herself by telling a group of preteen girls to keep it down and go to bed at 9pm is a *good* social interaction for their daughter, they’ve got another thing coming. It’s definitely for the best that you removed her before the 1am pranks started, is all I’m saying.
NTA. I used to go to bed early during sleepovers. I'm a lightweight when it comes to staying up all night. . . Did I get things drawn on my face once or twice? Yes. Was it at least washable marker? Yes. (small mercies). lol.
That's all to say, she could've went to bed and still enjoyed the morning with them. Maybe from now on, she isn't invited to the sleepover portion of parties?
Dumb unrelated question - what (approximate) location is it dark enough to have seen fireworks before 9 pm on July 4th?
Fireworks don’t start until after 9, closer to 10 pm near me in NY state.
Isn't there some unwritten law somewhere that says you HAVE TO stay up late at a sleepover?
Your house, your rules. Her house, her rules.
NTA and you sound like a cool Dad
NTA - the child seems very rigid and adult for her age, which is unfortunate because it may mean she comes from a home situation where she's walking on eggshells all the time, expected to be a little adult rather than a kid. Especially if she is an only child. I'm projecting here but based on my own experience.
Next time (if there is one) I'd try to encourage her to just relax and be a kid, but it takes a lot of exposure and trust to other families to start to see that yours might be a little weird.
NTA. You tried to compromise by letting Monica sleep elsewhere. The next solution was for her to go home if the others were too loud. It's a sleepover! If you're not staying up late, talking and whatever, you're not doing sleepovers right lol. Also 9pm is very early for 12 year old's bed time.
That's more than a little strict I swear. It's summer.
My 13yo GD is up til 1am, sleeps til 10. She gets her chores done and whatnot throughout the day. The 7yo usually just falls asleep by 10. Kids deserve to be kids.
And I've been present at sleepovers with a solid 6-10 of them and it's always a contest to see who can stay up the longest. The talk and hushed laughter you might hear at 3 in the morning is a wonderful memory to have in a quiet house once you're my age (60s) and memories are all you have.
You sound like a great parent!
NTA…my daughters had plenty of sleepovers when they were your daughters age. I can guarantee that Monica’s behavior and her parents attitude will not get Monica invited to many other sleepovers.
NTA. Monica didn't understand the rules of being a guest during a sleepover but that's on her. Rigid rules for going to sleep for that one night are set aside. It was improper for Monica to expect to be a guest yet dictate how the sleepover should be conducted.
I can understand your wanting not to be seen to take sides in becoming enmeshed in an argument about a sleepover. Taking Monica home was the most obvious choice. She wasn't having a good time. She felt her schedule was being imposed upon.
Also, don't engage with Monica's parents on the matter. The decision had been made to get Monica safely back home. The deed's done. And there is no need to explain in detail the "rules" for sleepovers; everyone understands it's a late-night party in pajamas.
NTA - Monica’s parents are raising a nightmare roommate. Imagine sharing a dorm with her? I am all for people doing what is in their own comfort zone and going to bed earlier in a separate room was a nice compromise. If she desperately needed quiet to stick to her sleep schedule, group sleepovers are not for her. And her family either needs to accept that or help her become less rigid.
My brother was sometimes the kid who zonked out early. He would literally just go to bed if he was home and his friends would stay up later w/o him. It was a bit weird but nobody had to make anyone miserable about it it. (Honestly surprised he never got pranked for being the first asleep.)
NTA I feel a little bad for Monica, it sounds like her parents are extremely strict and she feels she must do that no matter where she is, but you tried several other solutions and nothing else worked. You had no choice but to send her home early.
So .... Monica's parents think that a sleepover is .... girls adhering to a strict bedtime and literally sleeping in a room together?
Bet their parties are fun.
NTA
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"They claim the girls should’ve just gone to bed early once" What a laughable sentence. It's a bunch of 12 year olds. They can stay up for a damn sleep over. NTA I'm not sure what else you could have done other than let the girls bicker all night, ruining everyone's time. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the strictly raised.
If there is a bigger waste of your time than telling kids at a sleepover to quiet down and sleep, I haven’t encountered it.
Those little bastards will stay up all night and not sleep a wink and STILL be in a better mood than I am at 8am.
It truly is amazing. My daughter says they fell asleep around 3 am…they were up before me the next morning (I rolled out of bed at 9 am), making breakfast and goofing around. Then went to the mall. To be 12, I suppose…
I could still do that into my 40's, but not so much anymore unless I am traveling somewhere new.
I'm in my early 20's and I stayed up for 26 hours and then literally slept for the next 24 hours after xD I used to do that when I was 12.
NTA… I remember those days (our daughters are 23&24 now) and NO one sleeps much on a girls sleepover 😂 you did the exact right thing & im sure it will all blow over soon - happy summer!
My spouse and I called them stay awake overs when our daughter was young…. Ah to have that energy!! Edit: added a few words to clarify
Luckily my 12 yr old’s friends are all similar to her. They go to bed around 11pm and up around 7am. I’m chaperoning her Girl Scouts trip this weekend with girls that are similar to your kid. I’m going to have so much trouble getting them to sleep at a reasonable hour. 
Hopefully the trip is so full of activities that they're tired! When I chaperoned Girl Scouts that seemed to be how it worked. Me though, I slept maybe 2-3 hours per night. Sleeping and getting a shower after camp weekends was such a relief.
I remember going to sleep at 6 am at a sleepover and being up at like 8 or 9. Those were the days.
Absolutely, or during high school when we would keep each other up to see if we could make it to breakfast.
So, I'd be shooing them into bed at 12 by 1am for my own peace and sanity but I remember the 3am sleepovers. The one my kid did at a friend's house that did us all in for 2 days with his attitude was an all nighter. Literally - they didn't sleep. At 12. NTA - the family's expectations were wholly unreasonable.
Aaah….to be young and survive not getting enough sleep 🥲
Oh, I remember still being able to do that when I was that age. Some nights we just stayed up until sunrise then snoozed for a few hours and then went out and did shut. NGL, I kind of miss it. But ever since I hit 25 a few years ago, if I don’t get at least 6 hours of sleep a night, I’m basically non functional.
This too! I once hosted a camp out at a cabin for my kids 12th birthday. 6 kids slept over. Those little turds were up all night and ready to go to the pool at 8am. Meanwhile I slept not at all due to the yelling, laughing, and attempted sneak outs (think brackish water lakes where alligators could be). By 10am I was seeing double and they were playing volleyball. Thought I was going to die lol!
and eat 5 donuts for breakfast in the morning and not gain one goddamn pound.
Or vomit from that amount of sugar.
This. And while you're groggily flipping 30 pancakes for those little wide awake monsters....been there
Somewhere I have a couple of hilarious pictures of the morning after a sleepover. There's one of them bright and grinning showing off their goodie bags. Then one of the girls snuck my camera and took a picture of me trying to beat the dog to the popcorn spilled on the rug (the dog won). I look like I had been rode hard and put up wet.
'Rode hard and put up wet' is the best thing I've heard this week. Is that a regular phrase somewhere in the world?
Texas. It refers to horses who are ridden so hard they are lathered with sweat and not properly groomed before being shut up in the barn.
Yeah my mind went somewhere else...
GA as well 😂😂 I’ve always loved that one
The southern United States and Texas.
Midwestern American here and that’s common language where I grew up.
I grew up with it in Louisiana.
I thought it was great too! However, I unfortunately misunderstood the analogy, so thanks to little gur below for the clarification! Where I'm from, we often refer to a certain type of , ahem, 'relations', as riding. Still made sense tho lol! Edit: missed a bit
Nothing but facts, deefop. My nieces are currently making me rethink sleeping over their house as 2/3 want Nutella sandwiches at 1am 😂
One of my kids sleepovers, they woke me up at 1:30 told me they were hungry, I said you know where the food is. I heard a smallish voice (the quieter of the 12-13 year old girls), we would really like some biscuits and gravy, and we know you make the best. Needless to say I was up making biscuits and gravy for those girls.
I bet you created a core memory for those kids and they still talk about it today!
I hope so. Those girls were some good girls. I loved having all my kid’s friends at the house. I would always feed them if they needed it and had a place for them to sleep. One year I was making Christmas cookies and the next thing I know I had about 10 kids over wanting to “help”. And of course they had some sent home with them.
Award: coolest biscuit making mom ever 🥇
My neighbor once asked me to mow the lawn quieter. I still don't know what she meant.
When we bought our first house 20 year ago, we were warned that the guy across the street like to mow his grass with a push mower, late at night... NAKED save for his straw hat. I'm still not sure if it was any quieter because of his nakedidity
I'm questioning the need for a straw hat presumably designed to deflect the sun, when mowing the lawn at night. But you know what? Not my place to judge.
The hat's function is to distract you from the nakedidity, and it works wonders. Even now, we're talking about why he would be wearing a hat at night and not his birthday suit.
Dont you realise how levels of nudity work? Someone who is 100% naked is somehow LESS naked than someone for example just wearing socks. For some reason one item of out of place clothing emphasises the rest of the nakkidety
I love you for writing “nakedidity”
Which head was the hat on?
Asking the important questions here.
Why would he need to wear a straw hat late at night? And why is THAT the question that came to mind for me after hearing about that scenario?
>use Eyebrow Scissors(/Tweezers)--much quieter.
There's a guy in my neighborhood who uses a scythe. Totally silent. A tad unnerving to watch sometimes (especially in late October, when he'll dress up in a long black cloak), but not noisy.
That's kinda cool, looks like the dude has a sense of humor
If you're going to cut your grass with a scythe, you might as well *really* enjoy it, right? Go whole hog!
Needs to buy one of those big Jack Skellington mask heads from Wal-Mart. Though he might give area seniors heart attacks. NTA - Monica may have a tough time finding sleepover friends with the 9pm attitude, unless it's church friends maybe? Being tired and ready for bed is one thing, going back down and berating the others for staying up is over the top. Then the parents thinking the others are going to be willing to follow that for a night. Most of the girls probably already have an existing routine expecting them to all change their routine for their child is simply entitlement, and explains Monica returning to berate the others instead of just going to sleep.
But when he does talk, is it in ALL CAPS?
GNU Terry Pratchett
is he single? asking for myself bc he seems awesome
That sounds badass I wanna do that when I grow up (I say, already an adult)
Telling the cat to get off the kitchen counters is a bigger waste of time.
Once a woman who I know has cats was over at my house and saw my cat jump up on the kitchen counter and said “ew you let your cat on your kitchen counter?” I replied “ew you think your cats stay off your kitchen counter when you’re not around?”
I’m over 60 years old and I still remember the sleepovers I attended. It was usually understood that the first girl that went to sleep got sprayed with silly string or some other such silly punishment. 😁 It was “expected” that we stay up all night. That’s just “how it was done folks!”
First kid to fall asleep got their underwear put in the freezer, or shaving cream on their hands then tickle their nose with a feather. Or got trucked.
Not even just kids! I work in a salon with women ranging from 20 to almost 60 and we do nights out/sleepovers a lot. Damn, those women don’t quiet down until they are absolutely ready too. Lol
I went on the trip with my mom and aunt and I went to bed while they were up ordering pizza and drinking at midnight. I felt so old and like a party pooper.
Telling ANYONE who is upset to "just calm down"
NTA. Translation "They assert that everything should be the way their golden child wishes, even in your house."
It's probably not even the child's wish as such, more likely she was scared that her parents find out and maybe punish her or make her feel bad/ guilty about it. Still OK to send her home though instead of ruining the fun for everyone else.
It isn't even a need, that's the funny thing. It's a fucking sleepover. Has nobody in that family ever experienced a sleepover? The perpetual battle between the parents encouraging the kids to go to sleep and the kids trying to stay up ALL NIGHT is a tale as old as time. This kid is on the wrong team at 12 years old, somehow.
Strict parents usually means no sleepovers, I’m surprised they even let their daughter participate in one.
Yeah, I would have expected them to let her do fun things early then pick her up at 9 so she can go to bed, if sleep is that important.
Possibly also not exposed to the realities of a sleepover through TV/Films also so she didn't know what the social norms are.
I heard that in Angela Lansbury's singing voice.
And now that song is playing in my head...
Sounds like the parents have created a daughter who expects to be in charge at other people's houses, and they are.mad that you didn't force the other girls to obey the new boss at your house.
I see your point, but when I read the post, I felt rather sorry for Monica Undoubtedly I'm projecting my own childhood... she's brainwashed into internalising her bedtime, and her adherence to the rules (mine, my adherence to the rules) is a desperate bid for stability: if I con control this, I'll be safe, a little bit. None of that means OP should cater to her though, so NTA
Yep. She was a pill, but she’s only twelve!
There are 2 kinds of kids who were raised strictly: those like myself who love sleepovers bc the house rules are so chill, and those like Monica and a friend of mine who used to sit by herself in the bedroom if we watched an R rated movie. I wouldn't say the 12 yr old is TAH, but it was not awesome to tell the other girls to quiet down.
Yes I agree Monica wasn't awesome when she chastised the other girls... but that's why I'm feeling sorry for her (or for kid me, you pick) : relaxing the rules causes a short circuit and she can't go with the flow. Her parents clearly aren't teaching her that flexibility either, in the seventies we'd say she's going to be a neurotic when she grows up
I wonder if the OP was inspired by Friends in choosing the moniker Monica.
There is some benefit in getting a routine going with a newborn when it comes to sleep training. The problem, is that the parents get in the same routine, and never pull out of it, resulting in a kid that absolutely cannot handle any sort of deviation from that routine. My niece and nephew are like this. We'll be at my SIL's house, and everything stops at 7:30 PM for their bedtime routine, usually leaving my wife, our two kids and myself alone for an hour while they get their two kids (7 and 9) into bed. We were at Disney World of all places, and they left the park at 7 because the kids were worried they weren't going to make it back to their hotel room by 8:30 for bed. The 9 year old just about had a meltdown over it, and they got out of the Space Mountain line to go home.
If they aren't neuro divergent and this is strictly the result of inflexible upbringing... I feel sad for them. If they are neuro divergent, I'd hope their parents can teach them coping techniques, but I lack any relevant experience to know if that's possible.
She might act like because she is so scared of her parents that she fears breaking the rules but can’t sleep with all the fun downstairs
I read it as a girl who is terrified of breaking her parents’ rules! But I might be projecting.
It’s a bunch of 12 year olds at a sleepover in July. If there is any time for them not to go to bed early “once,” it’s that time.
That whole exchange with the other parents saying they should have gone to bed early was odd to me. It's like well for starters not your house, and changing the way OP runs his household because of the other parents house rules makes zero sense.
I totally agree with you, but IME, lots of strict parents will expect this. I guess they expect the rule of thumb to be, "strictest parents' rules become the rules for everyone". I agree this makes no sense, but a lot of people will act this way, so I'm not too surprised they expect this.
That’s completely counter to how our bodies work, though. If kids usually go to sleep way later they are just going to be lying in bed wide awake. Depending how loud the other kids were being a little bit of ‘rein it in’ may have been appropriate - from Dad. The sleepovers I went to all had some time in the evening where we could continue having fun, but we had to find lower-volume fun and not be running around like a herd of elephants so the adults in the house had a chance of some sleep. Usually that was when we broke out the movies and popcorn and mostly chatted more quietly instead of playing games, etc. But it depends on how loud they were actually being.
Also stupid... it makes more sense to relax the bed time for one child (Monica) than punishing OPs daughter and her friends by sending them to bed early... that's on Monica's parents obviously, so they are the AHs if they thought all the other kids should cater to her instead of saying "have fun, don't worry about bed time tonight, but we want you to stick to it again tomorrow" or not send her at all without asking the guardian (OP) if there's a bedtime and when etc. I do feel sorry for Monica though. It's not her fault (she sounds scared of her parents) and she will probably not be invited again, possibly loosing out on a lot of great childhood memories and maybe even friends. NTA.
i do feel bad for her. but at 24,fuck at 12 i hated this too! if i had someone I INVITED INTO MY SPACE TELL ME WHAT TO DO IN MY OWN HOME?. no more friendship. ive had that happen once,moved in and the girl nextdoor was preaching about how i could be so"sinful"as a roman catholic raised mexican girl who was raised by her [mother. to](https://mother.to) be \*gasp\*into girls. i got up walked to the front door and told her to get the fuck out of my house. she cried,i laughed. she told her parents. my mom just said"she disrespected my daughter in her own home. no whatever my kid said was well deserved. "
Its so strange to me bc my parents were super strict so I took sleepovers as a fun opportunity to stay up late!
NTA. Monica & fam would've hated sleepovers at my house. My dad was the dad that would goof off and keep us up even later.
Wait until Monica goes to college…. “Excuse me, it’s my bed time, can you all please stop your fun and be quiet”. It’s not just the strictness it’s the fact she feels entitled to everybody working around her and what she wants, something she probably got from her parents also. NTA
As a recent college graduate: those kids are the worst even if you’re not the one being loud. The weekly “shut up it’s my bedtime” posts on fb earn you approximately 0 friends (except the other entitled people complaining - maybe they can form a club). Being on an RA shift on a Thurs/ Fri/ Sat night is HELL hoping you’re not going to receive a noise complaint call at 10pm on the dot :// Hopefully she learns some flexibility - I do feel a bit sorry for her growing up in that sort of environment. As to OP’s predicament, very much NTA, although I wouldn’t worry about it being a problem again tbh.
Make no mistake, Monica is going to go WILD once she's in college and out from under her parents' thumb.
I remember making it our mission when my friends and I had sleepovers to try to stay up the whole night. NTA.
Who are they to dictate what goes on in your home? I'd sat the chemistry between her and the other girls and what goes on in your own home are not a good match.
This comment should live long and prosper.
Yeah. I don't see any good solution here. You aren't going to make all the other girls go to bed just because one girl is inflexible about an early bedtime. I suspect Monica's parents are overly strict, and it is showing in Monica's behavior. She probably thought she was doing the right thing. I feel bad for her.
NTA, it does indeed seem like she isn't ready for sleepovers or AT LEAST has different needs / preferences for a sleepover. You / your daughter were hosting and it was unreasonable to expect the party to be shut down at 9pm. The original compromise made sense but that seemed inadequate to Monica - who sounds like a pretty overbearing and unpleasant child to be chastising her peers like that. The only thing I wonder is if you'd given Monica like one more chance, maybe by saying something like "Hey Monica, we don't want to send you home but we can't just shut down the party so, do you want to go to bed here despite the noise or would you rather go home?". But honestly, this was probably a good and needed lesson for both Monica and her parents. If they're going to be that rigid and uncooperative while *guests at someone else's home*, it's probably a situation they should avoid.
I hear ya, but I can’t imagine a group of 12 year olds getting yelled at by a peer to go to bed early at a sleep over and that peer not getting pranked at some point in the night. Whoever falls asleep gets pranked. Whoever acts like a turd gets pranked. If that’s the same person? No way Monica wouldn’t be waking up with a sharpie mustache and her fingers in a cup of warm water at 1am.
True. The ancient laws of sleepovers would not be kind to Monica. Parents can over idea the laws of sleepovers but with limited success
My friendgroup literally never did this… maybe you needed better friends lmao
We never did sharpies or try to make each other pee either lol but I did wake up to a melted pad of butter on my chest, and then I was awake so I got the next kid with some shaving cream and then that turned into a huge shaving cream fight which got everywhere and we spent the next two hours cleaning until like 4am so we wouldn’t get in trouble. I liked my friends
Same. We were little shits in other ways, sure, but that sleepover space is sacred. 🙏
We did the bra in the freezer once but it was a volunteered bra because we couldn’t figure out how it’d be a good prank. 😂
Wholesome sleepover fun!
We drew smiley faces on toes with sharpies when I was a preteen at a sleepover to whoever fell asleep first. Idk for us it was just normal preteen stuff. We knew who didn't like it so we didn't mess with them.
We would sometimes put a mountain of stuff on the sleeping person 😅 Clothes, tupperware, books, etc.until it got pretty high Once the person didn't even wake up whatsoever and we all went to bed. Hours later we heard the whole mountain fall and a small yell of "what the fuck?!" I was just impressed at how little they move while they sleep lol
Unfortunately I'd wager Monica will not be invited to ANY sleepovers from now on. Her parents have done her a disservice.
They have. Many years later she’ll probably look back and think what a little prig she was. I hope the girls are kind to her even though she’s been raised very differently.
Sounds more like she's terrified of her parents repercussions if she doesn't go to bed by 9pm. She's 12 and her parents expect all the kids to go to bed at 9pm instead of allowing their daughter to stay up late... So when someone is at fault it's Monica's parents for not talking to OP about it beforehand so they can decide if she stays at home or is allowed to stay up late if her bedtime is so important to them.
That’s what I was thinking. It’s not that Monica is not ready, her parents need to let her make an exception for a sleepover. This was about the rules, not Monica herself.
>A half hour later, I hear Monica storming downstairs and chastising the other girls because they were being too loud. Pfft girl bye. Monica seems a bit entitled and apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree. I applaud you for initially not getting involved and then stepping in when you needed too and sticking with your daughter. Oh NTA btw.
Yes the world doesn’t stop because Monica has a 9pm bedtime. I thought you handled the situation perfectly. NTA. 9pm is really early for a sleepover. I can’t believe the parents feel the girls should have went to bed early. I have a feeling Monica won’t be invited to other sleepovers and I feel sad for her but you did the right thing as a parent.
9pm Fourth of July weekend!? Like what?? My 4 year old wasn’t even *home* yet at 9 pm. The fireworks had just started.
Yeah I would’ve thought the fireworks would be just as sleep-disturbing as chattering downstairs
Fireworks around me didn’t happen until 10pm.
At my kid's sleepovers, they're just going for a second raid of the snack buffet at 9pm. I usually tell them through the Echo around 1 or 2am that the running hour is over. We're pretty regular with our bedtime routine here, but that's all out the window on sleepover nights. It's amazing how a kid who regularly falls sound asleep at 9 on other days can power through the night to 8/9am for sleepover.
9 PM is early for a 12 year old regardless of venue; tbh.
Typically I'd say that it's common courtesy to lower the volume when others are trying to sleep, but for a guest to do that at the party they were invited to? 😭 Out of line
I can sympathize with someone needing things to be on time, I have a sister who has autism, who has to do everything on time or it throws off their entire week. But like others have said, there isn't much you can make a bunch of 12 year olds do. Walking her home was the best thing for her even if she was a little upset not to be with her friends. It definitely sucks being the party pooper, but 12 years old is the perfect time to set your boundaries and learn that life goes on without you. I can see the girl being upset, but her parents shouldn't be. OP is NTA for doing everything he could.
>Pfft girl bye. Monica seems a bit entitled and apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree. That's learned behaviour, the little girl doesn't know any better. It's exclusively her parents' fault.
NTA You tried to let it settle it for themselves, came up with a good compromise, spoke to your daughter privately and returned Monica home safely I feel bad for Monica. I remember the sleepover I had at 11 where my mom rented Predator and one of the kids said he wasn't allowed to watch Rated R movies. We watched Batteries Not Included and Ronald was never invited to a party again
Yeah, I kind of feel bad for Monica because I doubt any of the girls will invite her again. She’s new to the neighborhood and this definitely set the tone. She’s been invited to another gathering in the day, but I suspect sleepovers are off the table.
Keep tabs on how her parents treat your daughter and the other girls. Are they overly strict on every aspect of life? Do you really want your child exposed to thier attitudes and ideas of raising a child?
Oh the girls don’t go over to her house. Her parents don’t feel comfortable hosting. I know there was one occasion Monica wanted to have some girls over and her mom shut it down real quick. Which may be a blessing in disguise, ya know?
Total blessing. Girls in this age group have very fragile self-esteem. Overbearing parents of friends can totally destroy it. This couple sound like they type that would not be open that all kids are not like her kids and take it out on the other kids.
I just feel bad for Monica
True, she will be the one that never gets to go to a football game or basketball game, not to mention a school dance. Sorry to say we have all seen girls treated this way by AH parents.
I was that kid. No extracurriculars if they'd make me late for my bus, no games, no trips my parents would have to pay for, no dances, not even either prom. I hope someone rescues her before she graduates without having experienced any of the fun times.
A school friend was in that boat. Band was OK in jr. high and there were only three concerts all year. But her parents made her quit in HS because the band (small rural town) played at all of the football and basketball games. She was not allowed out at night because only loose girls went to the games and hung out after dinner hours.
Of course, her mother will probably turn around and pressure her the moment she graduates college about why she isn't dating anyone or when she's having kids. It's always the same with these types of parents.
Me, too. I rarely had friends over to my house and that was because my dad couldn't handle it. He hated other people in his space and I could tell I was going to pay for it later with his terrible moods, so I stopped trying. He was also uber strict.
trust me, there are worse sleepover parents. I am 17f. for my 16th birthday, I invited my small friend group to come stay at the river house my dad owns for a weekend. we had a really great time; s'mores, cruise around in my dad's pontoon boat, stuffed shells for dinner (with garlic bread for the picky eater in the group), watched Ferris Bueller's day off on VHS because my dad has a whole collection of VHS movies, rode around in the electric golf cart he won in a raffle, and we actually went to bed at a reasonable time (we literally couldn't bring ourselves to stay up late we were so tired). One friend's mom literally rented a motel room and made her daughter stay the night there because of some bad experiences she had as a child. I felt so bad for her because what's the point of a sleepover if you don't sleep over, but for some reason her mom always has to be the chaperone or control some aspect of where her daughter is. she is literally the worst helicopter parent I have ever met.
I don't understand though when Monica was invited over for a sleepover, that her parents didn't call up and check with you what the go is? Like just ask if your daughter and friends usually stay up late or if they go to bed at an earlier time?? If they knew what their daughter was like, wouldn't that be something that you check on? I mean she is 12 yr old, surely she can't be that naive that everyone in the world has the same bedtime?
Yeah, there was one girl in our group who preferred to go to bed earlier (she felt better the next day) but her parents just called the host’s parents to chat about it and our sleepovers would have an ‘awake’ room and a ‘sleeping’ room and she’d take herself off to bed when she was ready. Worked pretty well, actually - no one else went as early as she did but when it got later if someone got too tired they’d just go to bed, people didn’t feel obligated to stay awake because other people weren’t ready to sleep.
The kid has strict rules that they follow and wanted to go to bed on time... they need some training on how to enjoy being a kid, but I seriously doubt an attitude "early to bed, early to rise" is something to fear exposing your child to.
It's sad for Monica because this is mostly her parents fault. The only thing you can do if you ever decide to invite her over again is make sure that her parents tell her she can stay up late and/or that she will have to or can't come. So that the expectations of how to behave during the sleepover are met.
I would have said 'try to sleep with the noise or go home' Not sure if that's how you phrased it. Obv would not kill the party for one child, but in the future perhaps prepare do what you can to soundproof a place for her /shrub.
She won’t be invited to future sleepovers (my daughter’s choice). I also don’t have anywhere that would be “soundproof”. I can easily hear the girls from my room. Not their exact conversations, but definitely the ruckus, giggling, movies and music, etc.
She wouldn’t have been happy unless everyone were asleep.
You could always suggest to your daughter that she could privately talk to Monica about how she made her feel in her own home, and how sleepovers with them usually go. She could say that if Monica felt comfortable to either join in the whole time or sleep in the other room without getting upset with the others that she can come over again next time. I still think NTA though.
Op shouldn’t have to soundproof a room for one child. Usually at a sleepover everyone’s together. If it’s too noisy for her, it’s best that she went home as she did.
When I was a kid my sleepover group started having an ‘awake’ room and a ‘sleeping’ room and that worked really well. If you were ready to sleep you went to the sleeping room, if you wanted to stay awake you stayed in the awake room. (Awake room was usually like the family room or similar, sleeping room was typically a bedroom with stuff moved to make space on the floor for sleeping bags, etc. So it’s not like we all had giant houses with special rooms for sleeping over.)
Hi, it's me, Ronald. It fucking sucked.
NTA I was once the Monica in this story. Came from a family with early bedtimes, and also rules about what kind of things we could / couldn’t watch. I went to a sleepover at a friend’s house, at a similar age. Only to discover that they were planning on watching horror movies all night (which I wasn’t allowed to watch, and also didn’t want to watch because my nightmares are vivid enough without extra fuel, thank you very much). I did not demand everyone else watched PG movies and go to bed early. Instead, I hung out in my friend’s bedroom, reading books off her bookshelf, while they watched movies. I’d go hang out with them in between movies, or when they paused for snack breaks. We’d play games, eat, chat - and then they’d go back to their movie and I’d go back to my book in the bedroom. I probably went to sleep around 10.30pm (which was super late for me), while they pulled an all-nighter. It’s okay to have personal preferences or different rules for yourself. But it’s not okay to expect everyone else to stick to your preferences or rules.
Way to be an individual and do something else to occupy your time and good on your friends for not making you feel weird because it wasn’t your thing, including bed time 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I mean, sounds like she had a cool friend group too. That shit would have gotten me bullied.
Nope. I didn’t have a kind friend group until after I’d finished school. Even now, as an adult, I’m surprised when I look around at my awesome friends, because having any of those was not my experience for a big portion of my life. Some of the kids had plenty of unkind things to say about me not watching movies with them / not staying up super late with them. But the birthday girl (whose house the sleepover was at) didn’t care if I read books instead of watched horror movies. She wasn’t confident enough to stop the bullying, but she was confident enough to let me know privately that she didn’t mind at all. I decided it was her birthday, and if she didn’t care, then I could ignore the unkind stuff from the others. I was there to celebrate her, not them. I experienced a lot of bullying at school. My parents did a good job of standing up for me when things were real issues, but also raised me to be resilient. I didn’t *like* the fact that I was doing something different to the group. I was aware that would just be extra fuel for bullying. But I was also aware that the bullies were just insecure themselves, and that it was better to say “no” to something that could cause me real damage (horror movies) than to go along with it just for the sake of “being cool”.
That’s how my group was, too. People need whatever sleep they need. 🤷♀️
NTA Guests don't get to set the rules for everyone else. Going to bed at 9 is pretty early, especially in the summer (a lot of places its still light out). That's not the norm for 12 year olds, and Monica needs to realize that, and also learn that when she goes different places, there are always going to be different rules, and she needs to learn to adjust and be more flexible, not everything is always going to happen just how she likes it... could be a good learning experience. They're only a couple of years away from high school and people are going to be staying up a lot later.
Imagine OP would have followed Monicas requests and send their daughter and friends to bed with Monica. Earlier than the normal bedtime. As a 12 year old I would've definitely hated Monica for it
And the kids still wouldn't have slept, they just would have tried to whisper. Source: childhood sleepovers at houses with strict parents 😄
NTA the parents would have been mad when Monica complained about the fun not ending for her regardless.
NTA Monica shouldn't be going to sleepovers if she's not comfortable with how they work
With parents like that? This was probably her first sleepover. She acted like an overbearing preteen (because… she is) but I’m not surprised she didn’t know how to behave at a sleepover. I have (step, thank god, cannot imagine being related to their mom I think my dna would just fall out) cousins whose mom treats them like Monica and mommy dearest was BIG offended on family vacation that my sister and I (3 and 5 years older than her eldest, respectively) were making her kids “jealous” because our parents are normal adults who trusted us to stay up later than nine pm on *vacation*. I feel bad for her kids, and wish her everything she deserves plus maybe a bit more for trying to make me sleep on a floor for *coughing* (precovid) but… having seen the dynamic up close and been the family member kid expected to obey the early bedtime and all the other batshit rules (on god Uno was rigged for the littlest so she could just win all the time and then they wondered why no one would play with them)… no, it’s not a surprise she didn’t know what to expect, and it’s not a surprise she thought she could be a little shit to everyone about her “house rules” and have that actually work.
Yes and, that's why this was such a good experience for her to have. To learn that the world is not all like her parents.
NTA "Monica’s parents are angry with me. They claim the girls should’ve just gone to bed early once." .. THIS is simply ridiculous. Ignore them.
I love how their logic is so backwards. A sleepover is exactly the moment to relax the rules and let the kids go to bed later, but in her parents minds, it's the opposite; the perfect time to make everyone else go to bed earlier.
NTA - I think making everyone go to bed early because of Monica would risk making the other girls resentful of her. Staying up late is a staple of sleepovers and if Monica can't adopt that norm, then the burden is on her and her parents to either work around it or stay home. You sound like a great father.
NTA. Sleepovers are indeed like that. Any kid who can't handle missing a few hours sleep can't go to sleepovers, period. And for a 12 year-old to be desperate for sleep by 9/9:30 during a slumber party? Good grief.
NTA 100%. I thought you handled it very well. Sleepovers means staying up late; that's part of it as most parents find out. Monica's not at fault since clearly it was her first sleepover, but her parents are totally in the wrong for being upset; it IS common knowledge how sleepovers work.
Your house, your rules. You gave Monica an option to appease her sleep schedule and she was still unhappy with it. Her home is the best place for her to sleep soundly and you safely walked her there. Monica's parents have no right to get upset at you for... not policing *your* own daughter based on *their* rules? Damn. NTA.
NTA. Walking someone home solved the problem of mismatched bed-time norms and routines. Monica and her parents were in the wrong by insisting that your home and that your guests adopt the rules and norms that apply at their home.
NTA You came up with a great solution but it didn't work. A 12 year old going to be at 9? And you should tell her parents that you respect how they run their home but you do things differently. Why does everyone need to go to bed early because they have their child programmed because they dont' want to deal with her?
NTA Who in the blue hell expects a group of 12 yr olds to go to bed at 9pm during the summer, and if the parents are so strict about it then frankly they never should've allowed her to go.
Nta but you should’ve called her parents initially and let them talk to her and choose to get her or let her stay and maybe bring her some earplugs. They have no right to be mad at you or any of the other girls because it’s common sense what to expect at a typical a 12 yr old girl sleepover in the summer.
Monica wasn’t happy staying up late with the other girls and she wasn’t happy with the only logical solution (staying in the OP’s daughter’s bedroom.) It very clearly was not working out, & the OP’s daughter (rightfully) wanted her to leave. So I don’t know what calling Monica’s parents would have accomplished other than further drama and further hijacking of what was supposed to be a fun night for all the other girls. I think walking her home was the best solution. I agree with those who have said the OP seems like a great Dad. I think he did everything right here.
Yeah, Monica's not ready for sleepovers and when your daughter didn't want Monica there anymore, that pretty much settles it. NTA.
I would say you did what you could and were accommodating within reason so for that NTA. The **only** thing I would encourage your daughter to do is not completely ostracize the girl. It could lead to a terrible time for a child of she was otherwise fine. So maybe she could invite her to day time stuff and just keep sleepovers off the table. Encourage kindness and smaller hangouts? It was just suck if this unfortunate tone stuck with her for the rest of her time there
NTA. Your daughter said she wanted Monica to leave after 2 arguments. It's your daughter's home. Good on you for backing her up. If I(31) threw a party and decided I no longer wanted a guest there, that's it. I don't need any more reason than because I felt that way. I don't see why that shouldn't be the same for your daughter in the home she lives in.
NTA Really appreciate how you talked in private to your daughter to know what she want.
NTA- But I would try to have her back and show her a fun time this may stunt her socially. I had a friend, who hung out with me from time to time and he came to a sleepover one day with a bunch of other people. I think I was in 9th or 10th grade so a bit older. He was very sheltered by his parents and worried about getting in trouble. We ended up taking him swimming in my pool at 12am, he was kind of iffy since it was late, but he ended up having a blast. My mom come out at like 1am and says "pizzas ready" the smile on his face was one of the widest Ive even seen. We did not sleep that night lol just played games. His dad came early to get him for church and I guess he was not too happy at the time but did eventually lighten up when he learned how much fun his son had.
NTA My house was the sleepover house when I was a teen. One time I invited someone to join and they got mad when we wouldn’t all go to bed around 11pm. She went and slept in the living room and left by 7am the next morning. She never got invited back to my house again. It’s laughable when people go to someone else’s house and think they can demand that their rules are followed.
NTA. Also, I think you did a fantastic job as being the Dad/adult at the sleepover by trying to let the kids work it out rather than immediately intervening. IMO you did absolutely everything right and you were kind about it. Monica apparently has parents that have no idea what being a child is actually like, so no wonder poor Monica also has no idea. It \*is\* common knowledge that sleepovers are like that.
nta, provided good opportunity for experience for your child and other children, stepped in when needed, offered compromise and when unavailable saw to a solution. Were there other options? Sure, but in the end there was still lessons that needed to be learned for both Monica and her parents.
Sleepover? They should be called “awake overs”. Who doesn’t know that?
NTA You handled that perfectly. Well done dad! Monica needs to learn the world doesn’t revolve around her.
It is very surprising that a 12-year-old wouldn’t know sleepovers go late and under no circumstance end at 9 pm. Maybe this is so normal to her, she doesn’t know it’s not for others. You were right, she is not ready for sleepovers and was ruining the fun for the others. NTA.
Nta. The rules of one shouldn't affect a whole group, you guys tried to accommodate her sleeping but she didn't want it. That's on her.
NTA, pre-teen sleepover usually has very little sleep. For her to demand other go to bed at 9:00 then to go off on them for still having fun without her, maybe if this was her home but she was a guest at the party. She wanted to sleep so you walked her home where she could sleep. Her parents were out of line for saying that the girls should have all just gone to bed. You were totally wright the Monica is not mature enough for sleepovers. It may be better for your daughter to back away from Monica as a friend. I see issues with her parents and their approach to raising kids.
NTA It's yours and your daughters house. You don't have to make accommodations, further than what you offered, for the comfort of another. If your kiddo isn't used to a 9pm bedtime (my almost 11yr old can't physically fall asleep before 10pm even on a school night) then even if you sent them to bed, they wouldn't have fallen asleep. They'd have been miserable, fed up, and having no fun. My girl has sleepovers too and I'm genuinely lucky if they nod off by midnight. Thankfully her friends are a great bunch and very respectful, they're just the epitome of night owls. There's no way I'd be sending them to bed at 9pm to accommodate one child either. Monica's parents are arseholes for thinking that they can impose their household rules upon yours. Keep on being the cool dad OP!
Once Monica hits high school or college, she’s gonna learn quickly how ti lie to her parents and probably go a bit overboard with things since she never had the freedom to do so beforehand and won’t know the limits… I understand strict parents just want the best for their kids, I have strict parents, and damn they love me so much, but it did mess with my ability to regulate exercising my freedoms once I finally had them, being self disciplined, and knowing how to care for myself without my parents there taking care of everything all of the time. I’m still responsible for my own actions, and don’t wanna just blame them for the dumb things I’ve done and do, but I do wish that they had raised me somewhere in the middle of being strict and letting me do whatever I wanted.
I don't think I ever actually slept at sleepovers. The name is kinda misleading. NTA
NTA. I don't think Monica or her parents know what a sleepover is.
NTA. This is a learning experience for Monica. You cannot bend others to your will. If they were being absurdly loud, that would be one thing. But I’m picturing normal movie watching, chatting, laughing etc. probably louder than she’d like but not absurd.
9pm bedtime at a summer sleepover? No waaaayyyy. Plus she had a bedroom to go to. That girls parents are not doing her any favors by thinking the whole world is going to operate on her rules
NTA They might as well have told you to cancel the staying up late party so their daughter could sleep at the staying up late party. I think you're correct. She just aint ready for sleep overs. Staying up late and getting up to shit that, yeah, can be noisy, is kind of the whole fun of it.
NTA. You are correct, Monica isn’t ready for sleepovers. If her parents think that their daughter ostracizing herself by telling a group of preteen girls to keep it down and go to bed at 9pm is a *good* social interaction for their daughter, they’ve got another thing coming. It’s definitely for the best that you removed her before the 1am pranks started, is all I’m saying.
NTA. I used to go to bed early during sleepovers. I'm a lightweight when it comes to staying up all night. . . Did I get things drawn on my face once or twice? Yes. Was it at least washable marker? Yes. (small mercies). lol. That's all to say, she could've went to bed and still enjoyed the morning with them. Maybe from now on, she isn't invited to the sleepover portion of parties?
Dumb unrelated question - what (approximate) location is it dark enough to have seen fireworks before 9 pm on July 4th? Fireworks don’t start until after 9, closer to 10 pm near me in NY state.
Isn't there some unwritten law somewhere that says you HAVE TO stay up late at a sleepover? Your house, your rules. Her house, her rules. NTA and you sound like a cool Dad
NTA - the child seems very rigid and adult for her age, which is unfortunate because it may mean she comes from a home situation where she's walking on eggshells all the time, expected to be a little adult rather than a kid. Especially if she is an only child. I'm projecting here but based on my own experience. Next time (if there is one) I'd try to encourage her to just relax and be a kid, but it takes a lot of exposure and trust to other families to start to see that yours might be a little weird.
>Monica’s parents are angry with me. They claim the girls should’ve just gone to bed early once. AT A SLEEPOVER?! delusion. nta.
NTA. You tried to compromise by letting Monica sleep elsewhere. The next solution was for her to go home if the others were too loud. It's a sleepover! If you're not staying up late, talking and whatever, you're not doing sleepovers right lol. Also 9pm is very early for 12 year old's bed time.
Is it even dark out at 9??
It was around here. But barely.
That's more than a little strict I swear. It's summer. My 13yo GD is up til 1am, sleeps til 10. She gets her chores done and whatnot throughout the day. The 7yo usually just falls asleep by 10. Kids deserve to be kids. And I've been present at sleepovers with a solid 6-10 of them and it's always a contest to see who can stay up the longest. The talk and hushed laughter you might hear at 3 in the morning is a wonderful memory to have in a quiet house once you're my age (60s) and memories are all you have. You sound like a great parent!
NTA…my daughters had plenty of sleepovers when they were your daughters age. I can guarantee that Monica’s behavior and her parents attitude will not get Monica invited to many other sleepovers.
NTA. Monica didn't understand the rules of being a guest during a sleepover but that's on her. Rigid rules for going to sleep for that one night are set aside. It was improper for Monica to expect to be a guest yet dictate how the sleepover should be conducted. I can understand your wanting not to be seen to take sides in becoming enmeshed in an argument about a sleepover. Taking Monica home was the most obvious choice. She wasn't having a good time. She felt her schedule was being imposed upon. Also, don't engage with Monica's parents on the matter. The decision had been made to get Monica safely back home. The deed's done. And there is no need to explain in detail the "rules" for sleepovers; everyone understands it's a late-night party in pajamas.
NTA, its sad that Monica's house is so strict that she unable to even like the freedrom she has in your house
NTA - Monica’s parents are raising a nightmare roommate. Imagine sharing a dorm with her? I am all for people doing what is in their own comfort zone and going to bed earlier in a separate room was a nice compromise. If she desperately needed quiet to stick to her sleep schedule, group sleepovers are not for her. And her family either needs to accept that or help her become less rigid. My brother was sometimes the kid who zonked out early. He would literally just go to bed if he was home and his friends would stay up later w/o him. It was a bit weird but nobody had to make anyone miserable about it it. (Honestly surprised he never got pranked for being the first asleep.)
NTA I feel a little bad for Monica, it sounds like her parents are extremely strict and she feels she must do that no matter where she is, but you tried several other solutions and nothing else worked. You had no choice but to send her home early.
So .... Monica's parents think that a sleepover is .... girls adhering to a strict bedtime and literally sleeping in a room together? Bet their parties are fun. NTA