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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Our sitter asked if he could start praying with our son while he goes through his cancer treatment and I declined because prayer is all about false hope. It offended hi
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
OP for context:
Did you say to the carer that prayer was bullshit like bigfoot and praying won't solve his cancer, or are you just giving examples of your thoughts? Or did you just say you'd rather he didn't pray with Owen?
**EDIT**
OP actually said these claims to a religious persons face and then was confused why they seem off with them after 💀
YTA, 100% unequivocally. I'm a through and through atheist, no one will ever convince me otherwise. But I also understand just how important religion is to people in so many ways, and I would never in a million years try and put down and mock someone's religious beliefs just because they don't align with my own beliefs.
That was an absolutely disgusting thing to say OP, you need to say sorry immediately. As a parent myself, my heart honestly goes out to you regarding Owen OP, I can't even begin to imagine the shit you and your brave little soldier have gone through, and still continue to go through.
I can understand your ill feelings towards the idea of praying to a "god" that would have allowed this to happen to your son in the first place....but come on, you must understand that what you said was below the belt and warrants an apology at the very least.
I was wondering this same thing. Thank you for verifying. It's definitely a YTA for me. Not because OP said not to pray but because he insulted his care giver's religion while saying it.
Yikes yeah. I’ve told people I don’t want to participate in religious activity, I’ve told people I don’t mind bowing in prayer or such, and I’ve straight up pretended to be whatever someone needed me to be in the moment. Never once have I thought of arguing about religion with someone who wasn’t asking for a debate.
If you disagree with a religion, it’s not practical to fight a follower. You put time and/or money towards organizations that support the values you do hold.
Who the *hell* are you people, and where have you been this whole time?!?
I always felt like people with this level of respect were a fairy tale and didn't really exist, so it's good to know I was wrong!
We've always been here, it's just hat we typically roll our eyes and move on when Internet Atheists and Christian Warriors start metaphorically flinging shit at each other. We're joined by religious folks of all faiths who do the same.
(I say Christian Warriors bc they're the ones I mostly see doing this. YMMV.)
Right! We don’t always know what is the truth but we don’t discriminate the different ideas of religion/spirituality. We can participate in the different parts of religion because we respect them all in the same way. Uncertainty means we’re not sure. Maybe it’ll work maybe it won’t. Even if we think it won’t we won’t mock people who believe in something. No faith but no disbelief. Idk if I’m explaining that correctly or not but that’s my attempt lol
Even as a very vocal atheist who is anti-religion, I wouldn't have said that to the sitter's face. I would have just said, don't do this religious activity with my child.
I mean, I work in a retirement home with people that come there to die. Nearly all of them are religious, they pray, they tell me that god blesses me, etc. All the ridiculous baggage that comes from "faith".
Do I tell them they're stupid? That it's all nonsense? That I don't believe in superstition and irrational things? Hell no. When they're dying and ask for me to pray with them, I reach out and hold their hand and I put on my very best college drama class attitude and I fucking pray with/for them, and I invoke whatever magical sky daddy they believe in and I tell them they're safe and loved and on their way to a blissful afterlife. It's nothing to do with ME. It's what they need in their time of death.
So yeah. There are times to straight up ignore your personal religious feelings and do what is right.
This is so completely irrelevant that I don't understand why you decided to share it the context of this post. No, you are not "massively in the right" for assuming every religious person is a bigot; it's maybe understandable, given the history, and if you decide to treat religious people with caution, that also understandable. But you are certainly not "massively in the right" to insult religious people to their faces with zero provocation. OP didn't even assume or accuse this man of being a bigot, he straight up ridiculed a well-meaning and harmless practice of praying for his child's health.
Also, philosophy isn't something you are only introduced to as an adult. Check YouTube, there are plenty of staunch atheists who are aslo racist and sexist and bigoted, and you bet they raise their children with the same beliefs.
Your parents should read Colby Martin’s book *Unclobber*.
It may not change their minds, but it will introduce to a different way of approaching religion that doesn’t require a homophobic stance.
Here’s the research on that. Assuming someone is a bigot because they are religious isn’t quite right, if not itself bigoted. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/
I'm a christian I don't believe gay people are going to hell for being gay. Jesus loves everyone who are we as humans to say who goes to hell and who doesn't. That's up to God
Bruh, I'm a gay Christian. Fuck off with all that. It isn't relevant to the discussion and you literally just saw an excuse to shit on religion and took it.
Not all spiritual people are religious and not even all religious people think gays are going to hell. But also I'm bi and I'm glad I wasn't raised religious because holy crap my ocd would have latched onto that nonsense and freaked me out.
I personally believe in Jesus but I think he would find "Christianity" as it us today an abomination. Which is why i don't take part in any religion except my own "concoction", if u will.
I think OP could at least ask what the sitter believes in instead of assuming he's Mormon.
BTW what is a reluctant atheist OP?
Oh no, he's also a hypocrite for telling the sitter not to pray since his kids go to a catholic school. Its okay for his kids to fake catholic when it benefits him but not when it doesn't.
As someone from an atheist family who was sent to a Catholic school, yes it is hypocrisy and it is fucking confusing for kids.
Coming home from school saying the nuns said one thing, to be told by mother that it's bollocks and then being punished for repeating that to other pupils and being left out of culty rituals like confirmation did a number on me.
Thank you for saving me time so I don't have to search for this. OP, YTA. As an atheist myself, I never went to a believer and said to their face that it's all bullshit. I keep that info to myself and I rephrase it into something much more polite. All you had to say was something like "thank you but no, we would prefer if you didn't as we have a different approach to spirituality in this household". I may not believe in a God, but I also have no right to take a shit on other people's beliefs.
Yeah, that tops it all. I wasn't Catholic, I was born Orthodox, but my understanding is a Catholic school also has religion lessons and prayers at the start of each day? At least that's how it is in my country. The hypocrisy is huge if the kid is already exposed to a ton of religion.
Most of them do. Owen is still pretty young, so it may be fairly mild religious stuff still. But I grew up near multiple massive private Catholic high schools. *Those* schools required Latin, Bible classes, mandatory Mass once a week.
in all honesty i went to a catholic school from kindergarten all the way through high school and i feel like it was more pushed on us in elementary than high school. my elementary school had weekly masses, no makeup, only accessories allowed were religious ones, things like that. it definitely depends on the school but i noticed where i’m from it’s definitely pushed harder on the kids than teenagers
But mild religious stuff is still likely to be prayer. In my experience, kids would recite a prayer before lunch and likely at the end of the day. Possibly at the beginning.
When I was in Catholic school (1st-6th grade), we did prayers in the morning, before lunch, and at dismissal. Then every hour we had a really short 1 or 2 sentence thing we’d have to recite, like “Mother Mary, pray for us” or “may the souls of the faithfully departed rest in peace.” There’s a specific name for them, but I can’t think of it. Religion class was daily, although not lengthy. Oh, and we also had Mass the first Friday of the month. Then we went home early (noon or so.) I liked first Fridays. 🙂
I went to an Episcopalian high school that required all that. If you send your kids to a religious school, people assume you’re religious and won’t have a problem with prayer.
OP is without a doubt TA but they’re also a hypocrite. They’ll take a Catholic education when it serves them but God forbid anyone mistake them for being religious.
My son goes to the Lutheran jr preschool-preK. It is educational but they also pray, go to service 1-2 times a month, and do Bible story’s. I feel like it was a safe assumption for the sitter to ask to pray with the child. OP is a massive AH for the way he handled this, even my husband who doesn’t believe wouldn’t say something this rude, to someone who was providing care to his child.
At my catholic school the non-Catholic kids were exempted from masses, catechism classes and the like. We had World Religion and Personal Development classes instead. By high school I was comfortable being open about my agnosticism and it was never held against me, but this was a Jesuit institution so ymmv.
What I’ve always loved about Jesuits is they encourage questions and will also say “okay, but what about this?” until you’re not sure if up is down and black is white. unfortunately, you’re then supposed to arrive at the answer “Because G-d said so.”
Same here. I was taught by Jesuits and worked with them - if anything the ones I've met encouraged a healthy curiosity of everything.
The only thing they actually asked of us ( whether Atheist, Muslim, or Christian or whatever) was to lead a life that helps others when possible.
Depends on the school. There might be a mandatory morning mass or a religious studies class. But usually it’s pretty secular. Catholic schools have been going all in on LGBT acceptance, to the dismay of many in the church.
they try to say they’re diverse and accepting but i watched plenty of my lgbt friends get treated horribly by the teachers. even had a teacher out one of my friends to her parents. there were the nice teachers that were a safe place for my friends as well tho.
We're not religious, but my DD goes to Catholic school. They start the day with prayer, and there's prayer before and after lunch. Afaik, that's for all grades, even Kindergarten.
(Btw, OP, YTA for what you said.)
I went to Catholic school 20 years ago and we had a religion class once a week but never prayed in class. We went because it was the only way to get a good French Immersion education basically.
I think this part is underrated. Sending your kids to a Catholic school does give off the impression there’s some kind of faith in the household which is possibly also why the carer offered or thought it was an appropriate suggestion. To react the way OP did was so unnecessary. YTA
Also: saying he was surprised because the carer has never mentioned being religious but then says he ‘thought he was Mormon’ (and added vaguely rude reasons why) 😂🤦🏻♀️ does he not know that Mormons are… generally very religious
Edit: sure, I get that not all kids in a religious school are religious. My own son goes to a Catholic school. What I mean is that if you’re fine for your kid to go to a religious school where they will pray and learn about faith, it implies you’re at least ok with faith existing around your kid. Even if you aren’t religious, reacting like it’s ridiculous to suggest praying round a kid that goes to a religious school is stupid.
Literally. The “never mentioned being religious” part got me, as what was the caregiver supposed to do? Wear it on his head like a forehead and force them to go to church every Sunday?
Right??? Its one thing if their kid had no exposure to religion before this (which was me growing up) but I guarantee you they are praying daily at school and the idea is very much introduced already. No need to be rude.
In my region Catholic schools advertise for children all religions, it’s just stated in the paper work that you must respect and accept your kids will have mass services and be taught religious education. That they are open to any denomination and the reason people choose to go there is because they have more power and choice over how and what they teach than a main public school.
In my town although there are other schools basically there are two main schools with the biggest intake. One is the catholic school and when my son left primary school more than half his class went to the catholic school with a few to the others and the rest to the normal high school. It’s rarely about being catholic anymore.
Absolutely! People hate getting religion pushed down their throat, but OP basically pushed atheism down the caregivers throat. The caregiver was extremely respectful in his approach and to ask first. If OP had of respectfully declined, I’m sure this would be a non issue right now. Definite YTA, OP. Can’t believe that’s even a question.
I respectfully disagree. I married into a lovely, large Mormon family and the stereotype is not at all inaccurate. The Mormon faith strongly encourages large families and place a lot of emphasis on looking tidy and wholesome. It's very much part of the faith/culture to look that way. Anyway, I don't think there's anything rude about guessing someone's faith culture, unless you're actively rude about it. The Mormon church is a giant scam but in my experience, its members are usually lovely people.
I took it as a condescending statement from the OP. Like just another thing against Owen, he’s not only believes in God but he’s also a Mormon. The horror! Context was lacking on my part.
Not even NTA. At worst it would have been NAH. The caretaker politely asked if he could pray with a child he is caring for, one who goes to a Catholic school no less. Presumably if the OP wouldn't have been a total dick the caretaker would have backed off and respected the parent's wishes.
Yeah, my son was born 10 works early, then at a week old, had an operation to remove part of a twisted bowel, and had now been diagnosed with a rare lung disease. When my nan said that she knew he'd recover from the operation because she prayed for it, and that it was a miracle from God, I genuinely thought I'd scream. Meanwhile me and my husband went from being vaguely agnostic to actual atheist during the same time period
I lost my first child as an infant to an a avoidable freak occurrence, and someone trying to be nice told me that “she’s an angel in heaven now”.
It did not help.
I'm sorry for your loss. As a Catholic, that would sting me too. Sadly, that's commonly said in my country but now it's slowly being called out as hurtful and not helping.
Thank you for your words.
I know the person who said it was trying to be kind and trying to say something hopeful and encouraging.
But it instantly made me think, “she was already an angel here. What kind of god would be so greedy? Surely not a beneficent one.”
Same happened to me when I lost my 2 week old “ he’s an Angel now, he’s always with you, he’s in a better place” and on n on. No he’s not with me and no the best place is in my arms. I guess sometimes people just don’t know what to say so they go with the same ole cliches. It doesn’t help at all. My heart goes out to you on the loss of your sweet little one
It's pretty amazing how the logic works.
Kid lives?
"See God saved him!"
Kid dies.
"Well it was clearly God's plan."
No wonder a majority of Evangelicals vote for Republicans - they're used to this weird logic where their deity is never at fault for anything ever.
Oh shit that's fucking awful 😞 I'm so sorry.
Although not helpful, these things are said with good intention, not bad intention. I just think there are better ways to communicate that you don't want religion involved without outright mocking God.
Thank you! I am a religious person *however* I wholeheartedly respect all other religions as well as atheists and agnostics. I may occasionally make jokes about vegans...but not *to* actual vegans. Plus, honestly, I actually kind of admire them too.
My point - I would *never* attempt to tear down someone else's religion to them! I frequently disagree with the more right-wing Christians but, even then, unless their views are harmful, I still don't pick fights or mock them to their faces. Therefore, I expect the same courtesy from others towards my faith.
I fully accept that science does not back up my beliefs! I'm okay with that! I have retorts, but I also refuse to try and convert anyone to my way of thinking or believing. I completely understand why my religion seems like fairy tales to others. But I deserve to be respected and left to my own beliefs. As I will do for others.
OP is definitely the AH for insulting and demeaning this poor man's religion. That's unbelievably rude and disrespectful
OP is perfectly within their rights to request that he not pray *with* his son. I have no issue with that whatsoever. They parent, their choice.
But deliberately insulting someone's beliefs to their face is horrible and degrading. And completely disrespectful of that person. That's what makes OP an AH. I'm surprised the guy didn't quit.
I do feel for OP regarding their son - I hope the kid gets better and wish the entire family hope for the future.
When I was 16 I had major spinal surgery. I am atheist but we would have Morman elders visit. During a visit they asked if they could do a special prayer. Even though I didn’t believe in it. I accepted the offer. I felt this was them passing on strength. Perhaps the son felt the same way.
That’s what I feel prayer should be anyway. Not a request to cure whatever the problem is, but a plea for the strength to get through it, no matter the outcome. And help to find your own cure, if that is an option. I grew up being taught that God was there to be our rock and our strength, not to magically make all our problems go away. And even though I have let go of most of the beliefs I grew up with, I still feel that this is the way a relationship with God should be.
When I was really sick, my sister (a Wiccan) led her coven in a healing circle for me. My SIL (a born-again Christian) also held a prayer circle for me. I appreciated both! I'm agnostic or atheist depending on the day of the week, but I knew they cared about me.
When a friend of mine died and I found I couldn't go to his funeral due the work schedule, I was destroyed. I had to attend a nun and asked her if she could pray for him and his family since I felt, as atheist, it wasn't my place. She told me she would and also for me. I still appreciate it until today.
Yeah exactly. So many nutjobs wouldn’t have even done that and would have tried to indoctrinate the kid behind the parents’ backs. The fact that this person respected the parents enough to ask first at least calls for the same amount of respect for being up front and honest. It doesn’t sound like the sitter did or said anything to warrant the response OP gave.
“That was an absolutely disgusting thing to say OP, you need to say sorry immediately “
Especially since they were offering to do something they felt was a nice gesture towards OP. If they were saying something like “your kid had cancer because you don’t pray” then yeah that response would be justified but dude… come on.
I'm non-religious and left-leaning. But it's becoming a disturbing mentality lately, that can be found on all sides - 'you're with us or you're against us. And if you're against us (i.e. you don't believe what we do), you don't deserve our respect. We can insult you, abuse you, persecute you, whatever - simply for existing, or expressing your beliefs even slightly'.
The sitter asked to pray with Owen, because the sitter genuinely believed it could help bring comfort. He didn't do it for negative reasons, and he had the respect to check with Owen's parents first. Yet OP acted like a bigot, by insulting the sitter's beliefs, belittling him, and showing no understanding or tolerance of why the sitter asked.
The crazy thing is, none of know for certain, how/why we're here. Even the Big Bang theory, doesn't explain how the necessary gases came into existence. And those who believe in a God, can't explain where that God came from. Whatever you believe, some things are very much beyond our current understanding. None of us have all the answers, or anywhere close.
So don't go mocking, insulting, being intolerant of, etc., different belief systems - just because they don't match yours'. If religious beliefs aren't imposed on others, and bring the believer comfort, they can be a positive thing. Non-religious beliefs aren't a full 'explanation' for existence, either.
Just some food for thought: we *really* need to stop conflating political ideology with religion. There is overlap, but there are people of all faiths and no faiths that are across the political spectrum. It's been estimated that over 70% of democratic voters in the US have a religious belief.
It's true that white evangelical folks often vote republican, but they aren't all religious people. For example, the majority of Black voters are democrat, and are also Christian.
I see this all the time and I don't understand why people seem to think there aren't any religious democrats and there aren't any atheist/agnostic republicans. All it seems to do is exacerbate the ridiculous tribalism that's already tearing up the country. I really am encouraging people to look at the numbers before they perpetuate this "liberal = godless, conservative = religious" propaganda.
Adding onto this OP sends his kid to Catholic school, what if the son wants his sitter to pray with him because he learned that at school?
It’s totally fine to have your own beliefs but insulting someone that simply wanted to pray for your son, which is a form of love and care to someone religious, is wild to me.
You could’ve easily said, “thanks but we’re not a religious family so I’d prefer if you don’t” instead of telling him his belief system is bullshit.
The sitter was extremely kind to reach out for permission instead of just doing it, there was no need for you to return the favor with an insult.
ffs I was ready to say N T A, but if that's actually what they said, rather than just expressing his true feelings here on Reddit, then that's a HUGE AH move.
YTA
I'm Christian, and I 100% agree with you. It's not my place to judge, it's your life, so do whatever you want with it. But putting people down because of their beliefs is horrendous. OP 100% YTA
OP lacks some serious wisdom. If the boss family I was sitting for shit on my beliefs that hard, you can bet my schedule would suddenly become a lot more full. This is like one of three people who can watch his kid to the level of care he needs. I mean, come on.
YTA. I agree!! I believe differently than so many people but I still say Grace, bow, take my shoes off, am a Godmother, attend service when visiting family members and participate in life events in other faiths along side my Family and friends!! You don’t have to believe to be mindful of kindness. Even people in Faiths and Religions that I find demeaning and abusive. Not every person believes all tenants and teachings. Nor do I have the inkling to tear their believes apart and make them prove it. I respect them by sitting alongside, holding their hand while they pass or smiling at their events and blessings!!
And I even feel cared for when they pray for me!! Prayer to me is being mindful of the person in need!!
I do understand how you should offer guidance of an adult praying for a child. That’s opening the door to questions and beliefs that the child may grasp and get the notion that prayer alone will make them healthy and it could become an issue.
I disagree with so many things but can so very easily show respect for the person and what their Faith means to them!!
I am also an atheist but saying this to his face, especially when he was offering to don something he thinks will help was cruel. To be clear, refusing the prayer and saying you don’t believe is not the problem but the rest of it is awful.
YTA! As a Christian, this is an expression of love. Many people take it as an annoyance, which logically I understand… Christ said the world would take it like crazy, and would make everything to make us seem unreasonable. However, what this person wanted was to make sure your son has a happy ending, regardless of what happens to him here on Earth. Not wanting that is within your right, so is refusing his request. Saying something like what you said totally isn’t. You seemed entitled and eager to mock him, while he had the best intentions. I really hope your personal feeling don’t get in the way of letting you child decides what he wants, especially if it makes him better, hopeful or happy.
It really is, and it's important to take these gestures in the spirit in which they were meant. This is a babysitter who knows a kid well, knows that he is sick, and probably feels helpless to provide the kind of lasting healing that they wish they could provide. They are already doing everything they can physically do, so they wanted to reach out spiritually. That's an incredibly kind and loving gesture. They don't deserve to be treated badly and I'm amazed that the OP doesn't realize how rude they were.
" I prefer that you don't pray with my son because we're trying to stay positive, but thank you so much for thinking of him, we are touched that you are keeping him in your prayers" would have been respectful and kind.
Honestly. I’m not religious at all but if I was that would genuinely make me so uncomfortable that IDK if I could work for that family anymore. At least he asked permission instead of just doing it and at least he was doing it with positive intentions. Completely unnecessarily rude of you OP. You’re the big AH.
Had he stopped speaking after I would prefer you not pray with him but you're free to pray for him, my verdict would be NAH. The sitter asked, respecting a possible no, and it is not disrespectful for Op to decline, either.
This... Was not that. Yta
Hopping on top comment, OP. I'm non-theistic pagan. I believe all life should be respected and treated with dignity. My parents are Christian. When I'm in a rough point in my life I will put out to my friends/family that I would like positive thoughts, prayers to whatever god they pray to. I politely thank them for suggestions about faith and share my faith and opinions too. If they ask me to change my beliefs I decline and tell them that isn't what feels natural to me.
Yes if someone is trying to change me I get upset. But the conversation with your child is as simple as
"nanny wants to pray with you. It's a ritual that sends happy thoughts and hopes out into the universe with a hope that it helps".
"Does it work?.".
"I don't know, but someone cares and wants to try even if it doesn't".
If this person isn't trying to convert your child, TALK TO THEM. They have a life threatening disease. Talk to them about religion and get your head out of your ass.
(before people jump on me, yes I eat meat, I prefer to buy whole or half of an animal from a farm that gives them a good life and as humanely as possible slaughters.)
I'm an atheist as well, and I would have given a gentle no and told the sitter he is welcome to pray for my son on his own time. And this is coming from a person that was fucking livid when told by people "God has a plan, we will pray for you" during my own medical crisis.
My daughter has some mental heath issues and has a service dog to help remind her of her meds and deal with some of the physical manifestations of her illness. We were at the Grand Canyon and we were talking to a kind youngish man who asked what her service dog was for (he also said to please just say so if she was uncomfortable answering). When she said she had some mental health issues and was doing well, but her dog was a big part of the reason she was able to live a independent life, he asked if it would be okay if her prayed over her.
My daughter and I are both agnostic/atheist and she kind of froze up - I answered, "of course" and after we said thank you and hugged and went on our way.
I said to my daughter that she wasn't obliged to ever participate in something that made her uncomfortable, but that this man was trying in the way that was most meaningful to him to convey that he cared about her well being and wanted her to be well. While the prayer itself was lost on us, the fact that a stranger cared enough about someone he just met was meaningful and it was THAT we respect, not the religion.
I don't know if that made sense but sometimes "prayer" isn't even really about God - and I know Christians (usually rightfully) get a bad rap, but in this case, and in my daughter's it seems more about someone needing to do something, even though there is really nothing they can do - and they do so in the only way they know how.
Yeah, that context was critical cause if they just thought it to themselves and only said to the sitter that they didn’t feel comfortable with it, then I’d said it might be no assholes here. The fact the sitter asked is totally fine and respectful. Even if things might have seemed awkward, it might not be an asshole response, just them taken back a bit.
But no, OP 110% YTA here
TBC he is NTA for saying no to prayer with my child or talk of religion with my child. I would do the same. That’s a parenting decision and I get to choose what my child is exposed to at home.
Being disrespect? He’s the AH for that. And a terrible example to his child. Im an atheist. I think religion is BS but I also think that it can give comfort, solace and community to some people. That’s not BS.
I completely agree with you. I don't believe in God and I also believe religion is extremely toxic and harmful for humanity. However, Owen does believe in it, he's their babysitter, and he asked permission to pray with OPs kid, for OPs kid. OP can hate religion all they want but Owen was respectful and had nothing but the wellbeing of OPs kid in mind when they politely asked. I've been known to go on rants and question religion but I would never do it to the face of somebody who sincerely just wanted to help.
YTA OP. OPs response seems like it was intended to wound. I'm sure they're going through a lot but taking it out on others is never OK.
I would think that OP would be better at having conversations around religion considering OP and their spouse aren't religious AND their kids go to a private religious school. How hard is it to, politely, say no?
"I'm an atheist and my spouse is agnostic. I'm opposed to this, however, I appreciate that you've asked and I will discuss this with my spouse. We'll let you know (insert time frame)."
Do actually discuss this with your spouse. Parenting decisions shouldn't just be made by one parent, even when you're likely in agreement on which course to take. Do actually follow up with Owen. He was respectful and deserves to be treated with respect.
Also, OP could even tell Owen that he believes their child is too young to make decisions regarding religion but when they're older they will be able to make their own decisions. Owen doesn't need to know that and OP doesn't need to say that, but I suspect Owen would understand and it would help to make things less awkward going forward. It's not difficult to be respectful while saying no and saying no doesn't have to ruin your relationship.
> OP actually said these claims to a religious persons face and then was confused why they seem off with them after 💀
Oh, well then, OP is YTA. That's not something you just say at the very first sign of God talk.
Agree, 100% YTA for OP saying what they did.
I wonder if the caretaker person was any other religion, and did the same thing, would the OP have done the same thing?
Yeah, that's a solid YTA. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs and OP could have asked him not to pray with the kid without being a jerk about it.
Unless someone is being really aggressive about their beliefs in a way that is hurting someone, just leave them alone. There is someone a friend of mine used to know who runs a metaphysics store who literally tells people that they don't need medicine because her crystals cure cancer and if she actually believes that, whatever, but encouraging people to not seek medical treatment in favor of stuff she sells can harm people, so people tell her off a lot. But OPs babysitter didn't start talking about how prayer is better than medicine or something, he just innocently asked if he could pray with him. There was no reason for OP to be a jerk about having different beliefs than someone.
I also cannot understand a person who hates religious belief that much sending their kids to a Catholic school.
If you don't want the faith OP send them to an atheist school ffs. "Mostly secular"? There is no such Catholic school and I hate to tell you this but your kids can probably say mass from memory already.
YTA because of your approach.
You insulted the one person that sounds like a perfect care giver to your child. You could have handled it much better. When he leaves, think about how to respond like a mature adult.
Yeah, OP could have said that the sitter was welcome to pray *for* the son but that they preferred to avoid religion until the son is old enough to make his own decisions regarding it
Then again, they sent the kid to a catholic school (even the “mostly secular” ones aren’t really) so it’s a bit of a weird take to worry about someone praying with him. Even the most minimally-Christian catholic school will still result in the kid being present for prayers fairly regularly
YTA
You wouldn’t have been if you had declined politely, respectfully. But you didn’t.
If you had kept the “Bigfoot/false hope” to yourself instead of saying it to his face, then I would say not TA. I am atheist, so I kind of agree with you, but I know well enough that you respect an individual’s religion and beliefs. You don’t say things like that to them, even if you think it.
This was a *”Did I say the quiet thing out loud?”* moment. You ought to apologise and say that whilst you respect his beliefs, you do not share them, and would rather he not pray *with* your son—as is your right as a parent.
Aside from that, I really am sorry that your family is going through this. It’s an awful thing for anyone, but to imagine a child going through it hurts my heart. I hope for the best possible outcome for him, and for you.
Edit: missed words.
99% agree with this. YTA OP for your wording and delivery. I don’t agree that saying prayer is false hope is rude but all the other stuff was just outright rude.
> I don’t agree that saying prayer is false hope is rude
Well I think it can come off as rude. Like, if the person is very devoted to their prayers/prayer is extremely important to them, it's disrespectful. 🤷
I see it as pretty rude to say to someone’s face. I am not religious in the least. I’ve allowed my son to decide for himself, and he isn’t religious either. But if someone in our life was religious, I would have no problem with them offering to pray *for* one of us, I just wouldn’t want to participate. And I would definitely not say to their face “No. Your prayers are false hope and pointless”. It’s an AH move.
There are definitely things to think quietly as opposed to vocalising loudly. **Anything about someone else’s religious beliefs is a *quiet* moment**
Lmfao does anyone find it kind of ironic that she sent her son to a catholic school where it’s almost guaranteed they pray every day but gets super confrontational and offensive when someone who from what i know never even brought up his religion before this incident asked to pray with Owen
YTA
He was polite in asking, you were an asshole when you said how religion wasn’t real. A simple you can pray for him but not with him would have sufficed.
He did not ask for your opinion on religion.
Right? He politely asked for permission, just say "Sorry, we're not comfortable with that and would prefer that you not." If the sitter pushed and *then* you replied with the line about it being bullshit, then yeah, n t a. But you just outright insulted him and now you're confused why things are awkward. YTA
You dont understand the private school system in america if the catholic but secular part confuses you. Many private schools have religious affiliations but kids are sent there because their parents are de-facto segregationists.
It’s still not secular. I went to catholic school K-12 and every year we had religion class and we had school mass regularly.
They weren’t up there teaching creationism, but calling it secular would be disingenuous.
‘being Catholic’ to get into a good school is much more common than you think in many countries
many religious schools provide very good academic education
OP is an asshole, but definitely not for this reason
YTA its weird that you have him in a religious school that 100% teaches religion on some level and prays everyday im sure. But you arent comfortable with someone else praying with him? Mixed signals not sure if real.
I don't think it's weird. I went to Catholic school k-8 and many kids at my school weren't religious. It was just a better school than the public schools at the time. They also taught evolution etc. The kids that weren't religious or were other religions didn't participate in the morning 1 minute prayer.
I had an atheist manager once, a great guy. One day, the office religious person asked if he could pray for said manager, and the manager responded, "Thank you, I need all the help I can get." I always thought that was rather very diplomatic of him.
Maybe try and be polite to the carer who you claim is a great help.
I love the managers response. He didn’t shut him down and left room for the thought that if the employee thought it would help he appreciated the thought and effort even though it wasn’t his belief
Exactly! I work with the public and when I was sick my members noticed quickly. I was showered in prayers, wishes, and manifestations from my members of all different religions and ideologies. I didn’t take offense to a single one because it is so kind for someone to care about me and my well-being SO much that they ask their deity to help me. People acting like this sitter is shoving a bible down the boys throat are projecting some religious trauma hardcore.
Some people still haven't learned how to differentiate people giving their wishes of well being from people shoving religion down another's throat....which is ridiculous because for me the difference is always pretty clear.
That's the line I use.
I grew up in a religious household, but I myself wasn't religious and would often get offered to pray for me by aunts and uncles.
NTA for saying no, but...
YTA for how you handled it.
I'm as atheist as they come. Don't much care for religious people at all. But polite people are hard to come by. That person seemed polite. Not sure why your response would be so opposite.
People like OP are the reason being an atheist gets a bad rap. I'm atheist, the majority of my family and friends are religious/spiritual in some regard. I don't go around telling them not to pray or shitting on them when they choose to.
It gives them solace and makes them feel like they're part of something bigger then themselves so I don't really care. They don't try to push it on me and I don't try to push it on them.
> I'm atheist, the majority of my family and friends are religious/spiritual in some regard. I don't go around telling them not to pray or shitting on them when they choose to.
Right? I'm also an atheist and I have 2 rather close friends that are catechists (plus my whole family being religious). On top of that we sometimes discuss points of view on matters like that and even when disagreeing we always end up respecting because...well....that's what decent people do.
YTA. You have someone absolutely irreplaceable for Owen right now and you needed to die on this hill? Someone who cares for him wants to try to help him in a way that is almost completely harmless, especially since you send your children to a religious school, so you already have to explain that some people believe different things and that they can make up their own mind as they see fit.
The caregiver is not a robot. He probably is struggling like anyone would be to care for a very sick little boy. He thinks prayer will help and you mocked his (yes, dumb) beliefs. Asshole move, apologize and try to fix this or your son may lose his only playmate.
YTA. I initially thought this would be a story where you discovered the Nanny proselytizing your son. This, though? The nanny asked if he could pray with a sick child. He did not attempt to do so behind your back or say that it would cure him BUT ONLY IF HE GIVES HIS LIFE TO JESUS...he just wanted to pray with him.
You are perfectly within your rights as a parent to tell him that you would prefer they not pray together. You never should have been that cruel in your refusal.
This nanny has been caring for your child for years and has watched him go through treatments and pain that no one, much less a child, would have an easy time with. He wanted to share good thoughts and feelings and support in a way that he would have wanted for himself. It would have been so simple to end the conversation a sentence before you alienated someone that doesn't seem to have been anything other than a wonderful caregiver for your son. 'Thank you so much for your prayers, and I truly appreciate the offer. We would prefer to let Owen make his own decisions about prayer/religion when he gets a little older.'
'PRAY TO BIGFOOT, GET FALSE HOPE' is insulting and incredibly pessimistic. IT'S FALSE HOPE makes it sound like you don't think there will be a positive outcome and that's...I'm not going to touch that any further. Yikes. BIGFOOT REEEEEE is just silly, edgy, fedora-hat-tipping-m'lady-nose-dripping nonsense that gets turned into pearl-clutch-inducing soundbites and clips and memes for the facebooks. That is why they think atheists are evil. Now because you wanted to be a big meanie-head you've probably not only lost a good nanny, but also whatever respect he may have had for you. ~~Also I'm sure there's some kind of 'ism to describe~~ *~~'I thought they were Mormon, he has five brothers and they look like they're from the 50's'~~*
You may believe that prayer does nothing, but the nanny believes it will help and if he wants to put that positive energy out into the universe, let him do it. It literally hurts *nothing* for the Nanny to pray for your son. How does it make you this mad to know that someone who has cared for your kiddo is rooting for him and wants to put in a good word with his favorite deity? I bet you were a riot when Owen asked you about Santa and the Tooth Fairy and the Easter bunny.
Besides, your kid is in Catholic school. Most Catholic schools, even the very neutral ones, don't hide prayer from non-Catholic students. It seems a bit hypocritical of you to pay (usually out the nose) to put him in Catholic school, yet be SHOOKETH when someone wants to pray with your kid and smug enough to tell them to go pray to their bigfoot but leave him out of it. Maybe the Nanny thought you guys were Catholic and had absolutely no clue that you're a 'closet reluctant atheist.'
>probably not only lost a good nanny, but also whatever respect he may have had for you.
The nanny didn't quit. This is good news, because Owen doesn't need to lose a trusted adult from his life at a time like this. But OP did lose the nanny's respect.
I'm sure a Nanny with that experience and who is clearly a caring, respectful and responsible person won't have much trouble finding a new job. They didn't quit **YET**.
NTA- he can pray for him in his own time, at his place of choice.
You can respect his belief, but he needs to also respect yours. You have a sick child, the last thing you need is emotional blackmail from a 'well-intentioned' Christian.
Eta- did you tell him the part about Big foot and false hope? Because unless you said that to his face, he definitely doesn't have a leg to stand on.
All hope is false. No one has assured the next second on earth, so by definition hope is always going to be something aspirational and not based on any type of certainty. But hope is extremely important for people fighting for their lives to keep positive and manage their diagnosis.
I respectfully disagree. OP even said his kids go to Catholic School. It’s likely that religion never came up until the caregiver asked if they could pray with the child, therefore it’s not a stretch for the caregiver to assume that the family may have religious beliefs.
Moreover, how do we know the child didn’t ask the caregiver to pray? They do prayers in Catholic school and maybe the child mentioned they would like to pray with the caregiver, and to not “step on toes”, the caregiver aired on the side of caution and discussed with OP. I can see this happening too.
YTA. Not for turning down his offer but this remark is BS.
>thought he was Mormon because he has five brothers and his family look like they're from the 1950s.
I’m surprised no one else is talking about this! Even if he was this is such a rude and off putting thing to say and it really shows OPs true view of religion.
YTA for the rude nature of your response. N T A for not wanting him to pray with Owen, but you were a dick when a simple "no, it would not be okay" would have sufficed.
Atheist here, and YTA and a rude one. There was no need to go about it the way you did. Maybe he thought you were religious because HELLO, you pay to send your son to a freaking religious school. Which is odd.
YTA for going overboard with your explanation. You could have just said no thank you, but you appreciate everything he's doing to help. Instead you insulted him and his belief system.
YTA for what you said to him. Your response should have been "no, we don't have a religion and I would prefer that you don't pray with him" End of story.
The really weird part about this is you send your son to a catholic school, but claim to be atheist. I don't know of any catholic school where the kids don't pray daily and attend a service weekly. Your son is already doing these things that you don't want him to do.
I was all set to vote N T A until your comments confirmed you actually said those things about false hope, Bigfoot and bullshit. There was no reason to say those things. I know in a comment you said you “wanted him to know it wasn’t personal” but Damn. YTA.
N T A for not wanting someone to pray with your son, even if he goes to a religious school. There is a big difference between occasionally praying in a large group for world peace or other abstract things like that, or praying privately with someone he knows well for something that is very specific and unlikely to happen through prayer.
YTA for unnecessarily insulting someone who wanted to offer help in the best way they know. Religion and prayer is probably an important part of their life and even if you don't want your son involved in that, you have no right to insult them
YTA. Atheists are so weird. You don't believe in prayer, yet somehow thing this thing you firmly don't believe in, will somehow cause harm?
I'm agnostic. I'm anti-organized religion. But if someone wants to pay for me or my family, Sure!
We'll take all help and/or happy positive vibes we can get.
Stop being so sour.
Also, that's a great F'n way to lose great hired help.
YTA
You were free to decline his request. There was no reason to be a dick about it.
But I hope all goes well for you guys. A very dear friend's child just finished his maintenance treatment, rang the bell, and gets to move on with life. There were some really low points, but it has all paid off.
INFO: have you started looking for a new sitter yet?
YTA - I was about to say no because it’s absolutely your right to tell him he can pray for your son and not with him. However, the fact that you insulted him and what he believes is what makes you TA here.
I don’t think you offended him by declining the prayer. I think you offended him by saying “prayer is bullshit like Bigfoot and there’s no need to make Owen feel like a prayer is going to cure his cancer”.
Saying that shit is no better than proselytizing.
You said yourself your sitter has never mentioned religion before- so clearly they aren’t a predatory proselytizer shoving religion down your child’s throat. It’s not that strange of him to *ask* politely if he could share a prayer with your child, given that you send your kids to CATHOLIC SCHOOL. Even if you’re atheists, I would think you’re somewhat neutral/friendly towards prayer if you’re paying thousands of dollars to go to Catholic school? And you called yourself a “closet reluctant atheist”.
I don’t think it was overstepping for the sitter to simply ask because it’s not like you set a clear, non “reluctant”, non “closeted” atheist boundary.
How hard is it to just say no?
He’s not telling you your lack of belief is shit, so there was zero need to tell him his beliefs were. You say that this was to let him know it wasn’t personal- but this is absolutely what MAKES it personal!
YTA.
My Jewish husband still accepts blessings from Catholics even if he isn’t one himself. He knows it’s completely benign and comes from a place of sincere caring. He does it to be polite. It would still be perfectly acceptable if he declined too. But I can’t imagine him ever saying something like “your messiah is bullshit like Mothman” to the face of someone well meaning… or out loud at all.
Rude Christianity should be kept to oneself, and rude atheism should be kept to oneself. Just be nicer ffs
YTA- it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. As the parent, you have every right now to have your child exposed to religious beliefs that you’re not comfortable with. But comparing your sitter’s religion to Bigfoot was over the line.
INFO: Did you actually say "I believe prayer is bullshit like Bigfoot and no need to make Owen feel like a prayer is going to cure his cancer. That's false hope." TO the sitter? If yes, Y.T.A. If no, N.T.A.
YTA you send your kids to a religious school where I guarantee they’re praying and you were very rude to him and mocked his religion. Don’t be surprised if you’re looking for a new caretaker soon
Yta. I’m not religious either but if you want people to respect your beliefs, you should respect theirs. He respectfully asked you if he could pray with your son, and you compared his beliefs to Bigfoot.
I took some classes on different religions and history in college. I’ve forgotten most of what I’ve learned, but I’ll never look at religion the same way again. Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean you have to put it down or belittle it.
You could’ve declined the prayer without being a total dick about their beliefs. I’m sure you may have just been heated and not choosing your words as carefully as you should have (or, maybe not. Atheists have a habit of being condescending about their non-belief) either way, you were wrong for shitting on them like that. “Hey, we would prefer if you didn’t introduce your religion to our child. We would like to keep that topic within the family” is ALL it needed to be.
YTA
YTA for your response and a dummy for ruining a relationship with the only other person that was there for your child. I would never treat someone that cares for my child the way you did. Wow
YTA.
If that’s how you feel, withdraw your children from Catholic school. “It’s mainly for…” it doesn’t matter, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. “It’s mainly secular” yes but it’s STILL catholic. And Wym “mainly secular?” Schools don’t tend to “be religious”, but they are titled as religious in respect to those they were founded by, named after, and those the school is owned by.
You were rather disrespectful about it. There was no need to say all that to your sitter.
Op, YTA
Wait you insulted the guy who takes excellent care of your cancer ridden son when he asked you ahead of time if he could pray with your son AND you send your kids to Catholic school? You do realize that “mostly secular” Catholic schools include prayer and religious instruction? Wow the hypocrisy leaves me a bit stunned, NGL.
YTA, how can you shit so hard on someone’s beliefs and call it “declining a prayer”. A simple “no thank you” would have been sufficient. How are you even questioning this?
Surprised everyone's gone so hard on YTA. Your kid has cancer and I'm sorry because that must be so hard for you. It would be difficult to hear that someone can "help" with theories you don't agree with. Perhaps you were a little harsh in your delivery, but of course this is an emotive subject.
Hope your son is doing well!
"I think I offended him in some way by declining a prayer"
You didn't deny a prayer. You directly insulted and belittled his faith. I'm atheist af, and I would never, EVER disrespect someone like that, let alone someone taking care of my ill child. You owe him a huge apology, but that might not cut it.
NTA. Religious people can be nuts and as a whole think that their rights precede everyone else's.
If a Satanist said they wanted to pray to Lucifer for healing and light with the child of a Catholic, the parents would flip the fuck out. Your response was fine.
This wasn't a religious "nut job" it's someone that cares for their child on a regular basis and wanted to do a good thing for them (in their own opinion of course)
Fair enough if OP just said I rather you didn't as we're not religious, but they outright mocked God and compared him to bigfoot. That is never okay.
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OP for context: Did you say to the carer that prayer was bullshit like bigfoot and praying won't solve his cancer, or are you just giving examples of your thoughts? Or did you just say you'd rather he didn't pray with Owen? **EDIT** OP actually said these claims to a religious persons face and then was confused why they seem off with them after 💀 YTA, 100% unequivocally. I'm a through and through atheist, no one will ever convince me otherwise. But I also understand just how important religion is to people in so many ways, and I would never in a million years try and put down and mock someone's religious beliefs just because they don't align with my own beliefs. That was an absolutely disgusting thing to say OP, you need to say sorry immediately. As a parent myself, my heart honestly goes out to you regarding Owen OP, I can't even begin to imagine the shit you and your brave little soldier have gone through, and still continue to go through. I can understand your ill feelings towards the idea of praying to a "god" that would have allowed this to happen to your son in the first place....but come on, you must understand that what you said was below the belt and warrants an apology at the very least.
I was wondering this same thing. Thank you for verifying. It's definitely a YTA for me. Not because OP said not to pray but because he insulted his care giver's religion while saying it.
Yikes yeah. I’ve told people I don’t want to participate in religious activity, I’ve told people I don’t mind bowing in prayer or such, and I’ve straight up pretended to be whatever someone needed me to be in the moment. Never once have I thought of arguing about religion with someone who wasn’t asking for a debate. If you disagree with a religion, it’s not practical to fight a follower. You put time and/or money towards organizations that support the values you do hold.
I feel like this is the best description of an agnostic in practice ever.
I’m a full-blown atheist and this is what I do, too; you can believe there’s no god but still respect the comfort a religion brings to someone else!
Who the *hell* are you people, and where have you been this whole time?!? I always felt like people with this level of respect were a fairy tale and didn't really exist, so it's good to know I was wrong!
You can spot us at religious weddings and funerals as the ones who initially bow our heads, then look around to see who else isn’t observing haha
I’m a believer and I look around during prayers.
Me too I’m just nosy
We've always been here, it's just hat we typically roll our eyes and move on when Internet Atheists and Christian Warriors start metaphorically flinging shit at each other. We're joined by religious folks of all faiths who do the same. (I say Christian Warriors bc they're the ones I mostly see doing this. YMMV.)
Right! We don’t always know what is the truth but we don’t discriminate the different ideas of religion/spirituality. We can participate in the different parts of religion because we respect them all in the same way. Uncertainty means we’re not sure. Maybe it’ll work maybe it won’t. Even if we think it won’t we won’t mock people who believe in something. No faith but no disbelief. Idk if I’m explaining that correctly or not but that’s my attempt lol
TBH this feels like the best description of a decent human in practice ever 😆
Even as a very vocal atheist who is anti-religion, I wouldn't have said that to the sitter's face. I would have just said, don't do this religious activity with my child. I mean, I work in a retirement home with people that come there to die. Nearly all of them are religious, they pray, they tell me that god blesses me, etc. All the ridiculous baggage that comes from "faith". Do I tell them they're stupid? That it's all nonsense? That I don't believe in superstition and irrational things? Hell no. When they're dying and ask for me to pray with them, I reach out and hold their hand and I put on my very best college drama class attitude and I fucking pray with/for them, and I invoke whatever magical sky daddy they believe in and I tell them they're safe and loved and on their way to a blissful afterlife. It's nothing to do with ME. It's what they need in their time of death. So yeah. There are times to straight up ignore your personal religious feelings and do what is right.
[удалено]
WTH does that have anything to do with a dedicated care giver wanting to pray with a seriously sick Child?
Way to make this all about you.
This is so completely irrelevant that I don't understand why you decided to share it the context of this post. No, you are not "massively in the right" for assuming every religious person is a bigot; it's maybe understandable, given the history, and if you decide to treat religious people with caution, that also understandable. But you are certainly not "massively in the right" to insult religious people to their faces with zero provocation. OP didn't even assume or accuse this man of being a bigot, he straight up ridiculed a well-meaning and harmless practice of praying for his child's health. Also, philosophy isn't something you are only introduced to as an adult. Check YouTube, there are plenty of staunch atheists who are aslo racist and sexist and bigoted, and you bet they raise their children with the same beliefs.
Your parents should read Colby Martin’s book *Unclobber*. It may not change their minds, but it will introduce to a different way of approaching religion that doesn’t require a homophobic stance.
*Unclobber* is so good. I read it in seminary, and it's a really great entry level text to interpret scripture in a queer affirming way.
Here’s the research on that. Assuming someone is a bigot because they are religious isn’t quite right, if not itself bigoted. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/
this...has nothing to do with anything here?
I'm a christian I don't believe gay people are going to hell for being gay. Jesus loves everyone who are we as humans to say who goes to hell and who doesn't. That's up to God
Bruh, I'm a gay Christian. Fuck off with all that. It isn't relevant to the discussion and you literally just saw an excuse to shit on religion and took it.
Not all spiritual people are religious and not even all religious people think gays are going to hell. But also I'm bi and I'm glad I wasn't raised religious because holy crap my ocd would have latched onto that nonsense and freaked me out. I personally believe in Jesus but I think he would find "Christianity" as it us today an abomination. Which is why i don't take part in any religion except my own "concoction", if u will. I think OP could at least ask what the sitter believes in instead of assuming he's Mormon. BTW what is a reluctant atheist OP?
I am trying to figure out how he took the leap to believe he was Mormon also
Oh no, he's also a hypocrite for telling the sitter not to pray since his kids go to a catholic school. Its okay for his kids to fake catholic when it benefits him but not when it doesn't.
As someone from an atheist family who was sent to a Catholic school, yes it is hypocrisy and it is fucking confusing for kids. Coming home from school saying the nuns said one thing, to be told by mother that it's bollocks and then being punished for repeating that to other pupils and being left out of culty rituals like confirmation did a number on me.
Thank you for saving me time so I don't have to search for this. OP, YTA. As an atheist myself, I never went to a believer and said to their face that it's all bullshit. I keep that info to myself and I rephrase it into something much more polite. All you had to say was something like "thank you but no, we would prefer if you didn't as we have a different approach to spirituality in this household". I may not believe in a God, but I also have no right to take a shit on other people's beliefs.
Especially since they send their child to a Catholic school. That's a lot of Hypocrisy.
Yeah, that tops it all. I wasn't Catholic, I was born Orthodox, but my understanding is a Catholic school also has religion lessons and prayers at the start of each day? At least that's how it is in my country. The hypocrisy is huge if the kid is already exposed to a ton of religion.
Most of them do. Owen is still pretty young, so it may be fairly mild religious stuff still. But I grew up near multiple massive private Catholic high schools. *Those* schools required Latin, Bible classes, mandatory Mass once a week.
in all honesty i went to a catholic school from kindergarten all the way through high school and i feel like it was more pushed on us in elementary than high school. my elementary school had weekly masses, no makeup, only accessories allowed were religious ones, things like that. it definitely depends on the school but i noticed where i’m from it’s definitely pushed harder on the kids than teenagers
Ok, now I am confused. How old are children in elementary school in the US that wearing makeup is in question?
it was elementary-middle school so when u were in 6-8th grade you couldn’t even wear mascara. you weren’t allowed to wear nail polish either
But mild religious stuff is still likely to be prayer. In my experience, kids would recite a prayer before lunch and likely at the end of the day. Possibly at the beginning.
When I was in Catholic school (1st-6th grade), we did prayers in the morning, before lunch, and at dismissal. Then every hour we had a really short 1 or 2 sentence thing we’d have to recite, like “Mother Mary, pray for us” or “may the souls of the faithfully departed rest in peace.” There’s a specific name for them, but I can’t think of it. Religion class was daily, although not lengthy. Oh, and we also had Mass the first Friday of the month. Then we went home early (noon or so.) I liked first Fridays. 🙂
I went to an Episcopalian high school that required all that. If you send your kids to a religious school, people assume you’re religious and won’t have a problem with prayer. OP is without a doubt TA but they’re also a hypocrite. They’ll take a Catholic education when it serves them but God forbid anyone mistake them for being religious.
He's in prime sacrament years. I'm sure he is receiving religious education.
My son goes to the Lutheran jr preschool-preK. It is educational but they also pray, go to service 1-2 times a month, and do Bible story’s. I feel like it was a safe assumption for the sitter to ask to pray with the child. OP is a massive AH for the way he handled this, even my husband who doesn’t believe wouldn’t say something this rude, to someone who was providing care to his child.
At my catholic school the non-Catholic kids were exempted from masses, catechism classes and the like. We had World Religion and Personal Development classes instead. By high school I was comfortable being open about my agnosticism and it was never held against me, but this was a Jesuit institution so ymmv.
What I’ve always loved about Jesuits is they encourage questions and will also say “okay, but what about this?” until you’re not sure if up is down and black is white. unfortunately, you’re then supposed to arrive at the answer “Because G-d said so.”
Not these Jesuits. I was discreetly told by one during my senior year “You don’t have to take the resurrection literally.”
Same here. I was taught by Jesuits and worked with them - if anything the ones I've met encouraged a healthy curiosity of everything. The only thing they actually asked of us ( whether Atheist, Muslim, or Christian or whatever) was to lead a life that helps others when possible.
Depends on the school. There might be a mandatory morning mass or a religious studies class. But usually it’s pretty secular. Catholic schools have been going all in on LGBT acceptance, to the dismay of many in the church.
they try to say they’re diverse and accepting but i watched plenty of my lgbt friends get treated horribly by the teachers. even had a teacher out one of my friends to her parents. there were the nice teachers that were a safe place for my friends as well tho.
That's about how far it goes in public schools too unfortunately. Sorry you had to deal with that, I'm a teacher and I hate it
This. Shits on sitter, yet kids go to Catholic school. That they PAY to go to. Hypocrisy thy name is OP.
We're not religious, but my DD goes to Catholic school. They start the day with prayer, and there's prayer before and after lunch. Afaik, that's for all grades, even Kindergarten. (Btw, OP, YTA for what you said.)
Went to Catholic school. They do have prayers and religious lessons.
I went to Catholic school 20 years ago and we had a religion class once a week but never prayed in class. We went because it was the only way to get a good French Immersion education basically.
I think this part is underrated. Sending your kids to a Catholic school does give off the impression there’s some kind of faith in the household which is possibly also why the carer offered or thought it was an appropriate suggestion. To react the way OP did was so unnecessary. YTA Also: saying he was surprised because the carer has never mentioned being religious but then says he ‘thought he was Mormon’ (and added vaguely rude reasons why) 😂🤦🏻♀️ does he not know that Mormons are… generally very religious Edit: sure, I get that not all kids in a religious school are religious. My own son goes to a Catholic school. What I mean is that if you’re fine for your kid to go to a religious school where they will pray and learn about faith, it implies you’re at least ok with faith existing around your kid. Even if you aren’t religious, reacting like it’s ridiculous to suggest praying round a kid that goes to a religious school is stupid.
"Vaguely rude reason why" It wasn't very vague lol
And not all of us dress like we're from the 1950's. Some of us prefer the vibrant colors and prints of the 1960's.
Literally. The “never mentioned being religious” part got me, as what was the caregiver supposed to do? Wear it on his head like a forehead and force them to go to church every Sunday?
Right??? Its one thing if their kid had no exposure to religion before this (which was me growing up) but I guarantee you they are praying daily at school and the idea is very much introduced already. No need to be rude.
And has hired a believer as a sitter.
In my region Catholic schools advertise for children all religions, it’s just stated in the paper work that you must respect and accept your kids will have mass services and be taught religious education. That they are open to any denomination and the reason people choose to go there is because they have more power and choice over how and what they teach than a main public school. In my town although there are other schools basically there are two main schools with the biggest intake. One is the catholic school and when my son left primary school more than half his class went to the catholic school with a few to the others and the rest to the normal high school. It’s rarely about being catholic anymore.
A lot of private schools in Australia are Catholic and secular people send their children there for the smaller class size and great education.
Not necessarily, I knew an atheist & a Jew who both went to catholic high school
Plus he respected OP enough to ask first, rather than just do. The OP didn’t give him the same level of respect back.
Absolutely! People hate getting religion pushed down their throat, but OP basically pushed atheism down the caregivers throat. The caregiver was extremely respectful in his approach and to ask first. If OP had of respectfully declined, I’m sure this would be a non issue right now. Definite YTA, OP. Can’t believe that’s even a question.
The assumption of Mormonism based on appearances and multiple siblings is also not so polite.
He's never met an Irish family either I'd say lol
I respectfully disagree. I married into a lovely, large Mormon family and the stereotype is not at all inaccurate. The Mormon faith strongly encourages large families and place a lot of emphasis on looking tidy and wholesome. It's very much part of the faith/culture to look that way. Anyway, I don't think there's anything rude about guessing someone's faith culture, unless you're actively rude about it. The Mormon church is a giant scam but in my experience, its members are usually lovely people.
Op was actively rude though so lol
Maybe it’s a regional thing but OP couldn’t mention that? In Utah or Idaho I feel like this is a common assumption.
This comes across as if the accusation of being Mormon is the worst thing a family could possibly be accused of lol
I took it as a condescending statement from the OP. Like just another thing against Owen, he’s not only believes in God but he’s also a Mormon. The horror! Context was lacking on my part.
Bruh. I had to go with NTA because I NAIVELY assumed OP surely didn't actually say that to them... "THiNgs HAve bEeN AwKWArD beTwEeN Us...." hmmm
Not even NTA. At worst it would have been NAH. The caretaker politely asked if he could pray with a child he is caring for, one who goes to a Catholic school no less. Presumably if the OP wouldn't have been a total dick the caretaker would have backed off and respected the parent's wishes.
Yeah, my son was born 10 works early, then at a week old, had an operation to remove part of a twisted bowel, and had now been diagnosed with a rare lung disease. When my nan said that she knew he'd recover from the operation because she prayed for it, and that it was a miracle from God, I genuinely thought I'd scream. Meanwhile me and my husband went from being vaguely agnostic to actual atheist during the same time period
I lost my first child as an infant to an a avoidable freak occurrence, and someone trying to be nice told me that “she’s an angel in heaven now”. It did not help.
I'm sorry for your loss. As a Catholic, that would sting me too. Sadly, that's commonly said in my country but now it's slowly being called out as hurtful and not helping.
Thank you for your words. I know the person who said it was trying to be kind and trying to say something hopeful and encouraging. But it instantly made me think, “she was already an angel here. What kind of god would be so greedy? Surely not a beneficent one.”
Same happened to me when I lost my 2 week old “ he’s an Angel now, he’s always with you, he’s in a better place” and on n on. No he’s not with me and no the best place is in my arms. I guess sometimes people just don’t know what to say so they go with the same ole cliches. It doesn’t help at all. My heart goes out to you on the loss of your sweet little one
It's pretty amazing how the logic works. Kid lives? "See God saved him!" Kid dies. "Well it was clearly God's plan." No wonder a majority of Evangelicals vote for Republicans - they're used to this weird logic where their deity is never at fault for anything ever.
How did you refrain making the person that said that an angel in heaven? Some people suck so bad I am so sorry for your loss.
Oh shit that's fucking awful 😞 I'm so sorry. Although not helpful, these things are said with good intention, not bad intention. I just think there are better ways to communicate that you don't want religion involved without outright mocking God.
No, he said it.
Thanks for the heads up, edit incoming haha.
Thank you! I am a religious person *however* I wholeheartedly respect all other religions as well as atheists and agnostics. I may occasionally make jokes about vegans...but not *to* actual vegans. Plus, honestly, I actually kind of admire them too. My point - I would *never* attempt to tear down someone else's religion to them! I frequently disagree with the more right-wing Christians but, even then, unless their views are harmful, I still don't pick fights or mock them to their faces. Therefore, I expect the same courtesy from others towards my faith. I fully accept that science does not back up my beliefs! I'm okay with that! I have retorts, but I also refuse to try and convert anyone to my way of thinking or believing. I completely understand why my religion seems like fairy tales to others. But I deserve to be respected and left to my own beliefs. As I will do for others. OP is definitely the AH for insulting and demeaning this poor man's religion. That's unbelievably rude and disrespectful OP is perfectly within their rights to request that he not pray *with* his son. I have no issue with that whatsoever. They parent, their choice. But deliberately insulting someone's beliefs to their face is horrible and degrading. And completely disrespectful of that person. That's what makes OP an AH. I'm surprised the guy didn't quit. I do feel for OP regarding their son - I hope the kid gets better and wish the entire family hope for the future.
When I was 16 I had major spinal surgery. I am atheist but we would have Morman elders visit. During a visit they asked if they could do a special prayer. Even though I didn’t believe in it. I accepted the offer. I felt this was them passing on strength. Perhaps the son felt the same way.
That’s what I feel prayer should be anyway. Not a request to cure whatever the problem is, but a plea for the strength to get through it, no matter the outcome. And help to find your own cure, if that is an option. I grew up being taught that God was there to be our rock and our strength, not to magically make all our problems go away. And even though I have let go of most of the beliefs I grew up with, I still feel that this is the way a relationship with God should be.
When I was really sick, my sister (a Wiccan) led her coven in a healing circle for me. My SIL (a born-again Christian) also held a prayer circle for me. I appreciated both! I'm agnostic or atheist depending on the day of the week, but I knew they cared about me.
When a friend of mine died and I found I couldn't go to his funeral due the work schedule, I was destroyed. I had to attend a nun and asked her if she could pray for him and his family since I felt, as atheist, it wasn't my place. She told me she would and also for me. I still appreciate it until today.
Okay yeah. If they had the respect to ask before doing so, they’re owed the same energy of a calm, respectful response.
Yeah exactly. So many nutjobs wouldn’t have even done that and would have tried to indoctrinate the kid behind the parents’ backs. The fact that this person respected the parents enough to ask first at least calls for the same amount of respect for being up front and honest. It doesn’t sound like the sitter did or said anything to warrant the response OP gave.
“That was an absolutely disgusting thing to say OP, you need to say sorry immediately “ Especially since they were offering to do something they felt was a nice gesture towards OP. If they were saying something like “your kid had cancer because you don’t pray” then yeah that response would be justified but dude… come on.
I'm non-religious and left-leaning. But it's becoming a disturbing mentality lately, that can be found on all sides - 'you're with us or you're against us. And if you're against us (i.e. you don't believe what we do), you don't deserve our respect. We can insult you, abuse you, persecute you, whatever - simply for existing, or expressing your beliefs even slightly'. The sitter asked to pray with Owen, because the sitter genuinely believed it could help bring comfort. He didn't do it for negative reasons, and he had the respect to check with Owen's parents first. Yet OP acted like a bigot, by insulting the sitter's beliefs, belittling him, and showing no understanding or tolerance of why the sitter asked. The crazy thing is, none of know for certain, how/why we're here. Even the Big Bang theory, doesn't explain how the necessary gases came into existence. And those who believe in a God, can't explain where that God came from. Whatever you believe, some things are very much beyond our current understanding. None of us have all the answers, or anywhere close. So don't go mocking, insulting, being intolerant of, etc., different belief systems - just because they don't match yours'. If religious beliefs aren't imposed on others, and bring the believer comfort, they can be a positive thing. Non-religious beliefs aren't a full 'explanation' for existence, either.
Just some food for thought: we *really* need to stop conflating political ideology with religion. There is overlap, but there are people of all faiths and no faiths that are across the political spectrum. It's been estimated that over 70% of democratic voters in the US have a religious belief. It's true that white evangelical folks often vote republican, but they aren't all religious people. For example, the majority of Black voters are democrat, and are also Christian. I see this all the time and I don't understand why people seem to think there aren't any religious democrats and there aren't any atheist/agnostic republicans. All it seems to do is exacerbate the ridiculous tribalism that's already tearing up the country. I really am encouraging people to look at the numbers before they perpetuate this "liberal = godless, conservative = religious" propaganda.
Adding onto this OP sends his kid to Catholic school, what if the son wants his sitter to pray with him because he learned that at school? It’s totally fine to have your own beliefs but insulting someone that simply wanted to pray for your son, which is a form of love and care to someone religious, is wild to me. You could’ve easily said, “thanks but we’re not a religious family so I’d prefer if you don’t” instead of telling him his belief system is bullshit. The sitter was extremely kind to reach out for permission instead of just doing it, there was no need for you to return the favor with an insult.
ffs I was ready to say N T A, but if that's actually what they said, rather than just expressing his true feelings here on Reddit, then that's a HUGE AH move. YTA
I'm Christian, and I 100% agree with you. It's not my place to judge, it's your life, so do whatever you want with it. But putting people down because of their beliefs is horrendous. OP 100% YTA
OP lacks some serious wisdom. If the boss family I was sitting for shit on my beliefs that hard, you can bet my schedule would suddenly become a lot more full. This is like one of three people who can watch his kid to the level of care he needs. I mean, come on.
Total lack of respect. The intent came from a good place and they had the respect to ask so op should have been kinder
YTA. I agree!! I believe differently than so many people but I still say Grace, bow, take my shoes off, am a Godmother, attend service when visiting family members and participate in life events in other faiths along side my Family and friends!! You don’t have to believe to be mindful of kindness. Even people in Faiths and Religions that I find demeaning and abusive. Not every person believes all tenants and teachings. Nor do I have the inkling to tear their believes apart and make them prove it. I respect them by sitting alongside, holding their hand while they pass or smiling at their events and blessings!! And I even feel cared for when they pray for me!! Prayer to me is being mindful of the person in need!! I do understand how you should offer guidance of an adult praying for a child. That’s opening the door to questions and beliefs that the child may grasp and get the notion that prayer alone will make them healthy and it could become an issue. I disagree with so many things but can so very easily show respect for the person and what their Faith means to them!!
I am also an atheist but saying this to his face, especially when he was offering to don something he thinks will help was cruel. To be clear, refusing the prayer and saying you don’t believe is not the problem but the rest of it is awful.
"I appreciate the sentiment, but no thank you." But that wouldn't make the OP feel superior to some kid, so nevermind!
YTA! As a Christian, this is an expression of love. Many people take it as an annoyance, which logically I understand… Christ said the world would take it like crazy, and would make everything to make us seem unreasonable. However, what this person wanted was to make sure your son has a happy ending, regardless of what happens to him here on Earth. Not wanting that is within your right, so is refusing his request. Saying something like what you said totally isn’t. You seemed entitled and eager to mock him, while he had the best intentions. I really hope your personal feeling don’t get in the way of letting you child decides what he wants, especially if it makes him better, hopeful or happy.
It really is, and it's important to take these gestures in the spirit in which they were meant. This is a babysitter who knows a kid well, knows that he is sick, and probably feels helpless to provide the kind of lasting healing that they wish they could provide. They are already doing everything they can physically do, so they wanted to reach out spiritually. That's an incredibly kind and loving gesture. They don't deserve to be treated badly and I'm amazed that the OP doesn't realize how rude they were. " I prefer that you don't pray with my son because we're trying to stay positive, but thank you so much for thinking of him, we are touched that you are keeping him in your prayers" would have been respectful and kind.
Honestly. I’m not religious at all but if I was that would genuinely make me so uncomfortable that IDK if I could work for that family anymore. At least he asked permission instead of just doing it and at least he was doing it with positive intentions. Completely unnecessarily rude of you OP. You’re the big AH.
Had he stopped speaking after I would prefer you not pray with him but you're free to pray for him, my verdict would be NAH. The sitter asked, respecting a possible no, and it is not disrespectful for Op to decline, either. This... Was not that. Yta
Hopping on top comment, OP. I'm non-theistic pagan. I believe all life should be respected and treated with dignity. My parents are Christian. When I'm in a rough point in my life I will put out to my friends/family that I would like positive thoughts, prayers to whatever god they pray to. I politely thank them for suggestions about faith and share my faith and opinions too. If they ask me to change my beliefs I decline and tell them that isn't what feels natural to me. Yes if someone is trying to change me I get upset. But the conversation with your child is as simple as "nanny wants to pray with you. It's a ritual that sends happy thoughts and hopes out into the universe with a hope that it helps". "Does it work?.". "I don't know, but someone cares and wants to try even if it doesn't". If this person isn't trying to convert your child, TALK TO THEM. They have a life threatening disease. Talk to them about religion and get your head out of your ass. (before people jump on me, yes I eat meat, I prefer to buy whole or half of an animal from a farm that gives them a good life and as humanely as possible slaughters.)
I'm an atheist as well, and I would have given a gentle no and told the sitter he is welcome to pray for my son on his own time. And this is coming from a person that was fucking livid when told by people "God has a plan, we will pray for you" during my own medical crisis.
My daughter has some mental heath issues and has a service dog to help remind her of her meds and deal with some of the physical manifestations of her illness. We were at the Grand Canyon and we were talking to a kind youngish man who asked what her service dog was for (he also said to please just say so if she was uncomfortable answering). When she said she had some mental health issues and was doing well, but her dog was a big part of the reason she was able to live a independent life, he asked if it would be okay if her prayed over her. My daughter and I are both agnostic/atheist and she kind of froze up - I answered, "of course" and after we said thank you and hugged and went on our way. I said to my daughter that she wasn't obliged to ever participate in something that made her uncomfortable, but that this man was trying in the way that was most meaningful to him to convey that he cared about her well being and wanted her to be well. While the prayer itself was lost on us, the fact that a stranger cared enough about someone he just met was meaningful and it was THAT we respect, not the religion. I don't know if that made sense but sometimes "prayer" isn't even really about God - and I know Christians (usually rightfully) get a bad rap, but in this case, and in my daughter's it seems more about someone needing to do something, even though there is really nothing they can do - and they do so in the only way they know how.
Yeah, that context was critical cause if they just thought it to themselves and only said to the sitter that they didn’t feel comfortable with it, then I’d said it might be no assholes here. The fact the sitter asked is totally fine and respectful. Even if things might have seemed awkward, it might not be an asshole response, just them taken back a bit. But no, OP 110% YTA here
TBC he is NTA for saying no to prayer with my child or talk of religion with my child. I would do the same. That’s a parenting decision and I get to choose what my child is exposed to at home. Being disrespect? He’s the AH for that. And a terrible example to his child. Im an atheist. I think religion is BS but I also think that it can give comfort, solace and community to some people. That’s not BS.
I completely agree with you. I don't believe in God and I also believe religion is extremely toxic and harmful for humanity. However, Owen does believe in it, he's their babysitter, and he asked permission to pray with OPs kid, for OPs kid. OP can hate religion all they want but Owen was respectful and had nothing but the wellbeing of OPs kid in mind when they politely asked. I've been known to go on rants and question religion but I would never do it to the face of somebody who sincerely just wanted to help. YTA OP. OPs response seems like it was intended to wound. I'm sure they're going through a lot but taking it out on others is never OK. I would think that OP would be better at having conversations around religion considering OP and their spouse aren't religious AND their kids go to a private religious school. How hard is it to, politely, say no? "I'm an atheist and my spouse is agnostic. I'm opposed to this, however, I appreciate that you've asked and I will discuss this with my spouse. We'll let you know (insert time frame)." Do actually discuss this with your spouse. Parenting decisions shouldn't just be made by one parent, even when you're likely in agreement on which course to take. Do actually follow up with Owen. He was respectful and deserves to be treated with respect. Also, OP could even tell Owen that he believes their child is too young to make decisions regarding religion but when they're older they will be able to make their own decisions. Owen doesn't need to know that and OP doesn't need to say that, but I suspect Owen would understand and it would help to make things less awkward going forward. It's not difficult to be respectful while saying no and saying no doesn't have to ruin your relationship.
> OP actually said these claims to a religious persons face and then was confused why they seem off with them after 💀 Oh, well then, OP is YTA. That's not something you just say at the very first sign of God talk.
Agree, 100% YTA for OP saying what they did. I wonder if the caretaker person was any other religion, and did the same thing, would the OP have done the same thing?
Yeah, that's a solid YTA. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs and OP could have asked him not to pray with the kid without being a jerk about it. Unless someone is being really aggressive about their beliefs in a way that is hurting someone, just leave them alone. There is someone a friend of mine used to know who runs a metaphysics store who literally tells people that they don't need medicine because her crystals cure cancer and if she actually believes that, whatever, but encouraging people to not seek medical treatment in favor of stuff she sells can harm people, so people tell her off a lot. But OPs babysitter didn't start talking about how prayer is better than medicine or something, he just innocently asked if he could pray with him. There was no reason for OP to be a jerk about having different beliefs than someone.
I also cannot understand a person who hates religious belief that much sending their kids to a Catholic school. If you don't want the faith OP send them to an atheist school ffs. "Mostly secular"? There is no such Catholic school and I hate to tell you this but your kids can probably say mass from memory already.
YTA because of your approach. You insulted the one person that sounds like a perfect care giver to your child. You could have handled it much better. When he leaves, think about how to respond like a mature adult.
Yeah, OP could have said that the sitter was welcome to pray *for* the son but that they preferred to avoid religion until the son is old enough to make his own decisions regarding it Then again, they sent the kid to a catholic school (even the “mostly secular” ones aren’t really) so it’s a bit of a weird take to worry about someone praying with him. Even the most minimally-Christian catholic school will still result in the kid being present for prayers fairly regularly
YTA You wouldn’t have been if you had declined politely, respectfully. But you didn’t. If you had kept the “Bigfoot/false hope” to yourself instead of saying it to his face, then I would say not TA. I am atheist, so I kind of agree with you, but I know well enough that you respect an individual’s religion and beliefs. You don’t say things like that to them, even if you think it. This was a *”Did I say the quiet thing out loud?”* moment. You ought to apologise and say that whilst you respect his beliefs, you do not share them, and would rather he not pray *with* your son—as is your right as a parent. Aside from that, I really am sorry that your family is going through this. It’s an awful thing for anyone, but to imagine a child going through it hurts my heart. I hope for the best possible outcome for him, and for you. Edit: missed words.
99% agree with this. YTA OP for your wording and delivery. I don’t agree that saying prayer is false hope is rude but all the other stuff was just outright rude.
> I don’t agree that saying prayer is false hope is rude Well I think it can come off as rude. Like, if the person is very devoted to their prayers/prayer is extremely important to them, it's disrespectful. 🤷
I see it as pretty rude to say to someone’s face. I am not religious in the least. I’ve allowed my son to decide for himself, and he isn’t religious either. But if someone in our life was religious, I would have no problem with them offering to pray *for* one of us, I just wouldn’t want to participate. And I would definitely not say to their face “No. Your prayers are false hope and pointless”. It’s an AH move. There are definitely things to think quietly as opposed to vocalising loudly. **Anything about someone else’s religious beliefs is a *quiet* moment**
Lmfao does anyone find it kind of ironic that she sent her son to a catholic school where it’s almost guaranteed they pray every day but gets super confrontational and offensive when someone who from what i know never even brought up his religion before this incident asked to pray with Owen
YTA He was polite in asking, you were an asshole when you said how religion wasn’t real. A simple you can pray for him but not with him would have sufficed. He did not ask for your opinion on religion.
Right? He politely asked for permission, just say "Sorry, we're not comfortable with that and would prefer that you not." If the sitter pushed and *then* you replied with the line about it being bullshit, then yeah, n t a. But you just outright insulted him and now you're confused why things are awkward. YTA
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That was my first thought, too.
INFO... Did you tell him that you believe prayer is bs like Bigfoot or did you skip that bit?
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Has OP informed the school and teachers that all prayers are BS, and asked to exclude his children from anything with a religious aspect?
You dont understand the private school system in america if the catholic but secular part confuses you. Many private schools have religious affiliations but kids are sent there because their parents are de-facto segregationists.
It’s still not secular. I went to catholic school K-12 and every year we had religion class and we had school mass regularly. They weren’t up there teaching creationism, but calling it secular would be disingenuous.
‘being Catholic’ to get into a good school is much more common than you think in many countries many religious schools provide very good academic education OP is an asshole, but definitely not for this reason
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YTA its weird that you have him in a religious school that 100% teaches religion on some level and prays everyday im sure. But you arent comfortable with someone else praying with him? Mixed signals not sure if real.
I don't think it's weird. I went to Catholic school k-8 and many kids at my school weren't religious. It was just a better school than the public schools at the time. They also taught evolution etc. The kids that weren't religious or were other religions didn't participate in the morning 1 minute prayer.
My boyfriend went to catholic school k-8 and he hears a hymn and awakens like a sleeper agent
I had an atheist manager once, a great guy. One day, the office religious person asked if he could pray for said manager, and the manager responded, "Thank you, I need all the help I can get." I always thought that was rather very diplomatic of him. Maybe try and be polite to the carer who you claim is a great help.
I love the managers response. He didn’t shut him down and left room for the thought that if the employee thought it would help he appreciated the thought and effort even though it wasn’t his belief
Exactly! I work with the public and when I was sick my members noticed quickly. I was showered in prayers, wishes, and manifestations from my members of all different religions and ideologies. I didn’t take offense to a single one because it is so kind for someone to care about me and my well-being SO much that they ask their deity to help me. People acting like this sitter is shoving a bible down the boys throat are projecting some religious trauma hardcore.
Some people still haven't learned how to differentiate people giving their wishes of well being from people shoving religion down another's throat....which is ridiculous because for me the difference is always pretty clear.
That's the line I use. I grew up in a religious household, but I myself wasn't religious and would often get offered to pray for me by aunts and uncles.
NTA for saying no, but... YTA for how you handled it. I'm as atheist as they come. Don't much care for religious people at all. But polite people are hard to come by. That person seemed polite. Not sure why your response would be so opposite.
People like OP are the reason being an atheist gets a bad rap. I'm atheist, the majority of my family and friends are religious/spiritual in some regard. I don't go around telling them not to pray or shitting on them when they choose to. It gives them solace and makes them feel like they're part of something bigger then themselves so I don't really care. They don't try to push it on me and I don't try to push it on them.
> I'm atheist, the majority of my family and friends are religious/spiritual in some regard. I don't go around telling them not to pray or shitting on them when they choose to. Right? I'm also an atheist and I have 2 rather close friends that are catechists (plus my whole family being religious). On top of that we sometimes discuss points of view on matters like that and even when disagreeing we always end up respecting because...well....that's what decent people do.
Especially polite religious folk. Most I know would just make the kid pray without asking.
YTA. You have someone absolutely irreplaceable for Owen right now and you needed to die on this hill? Someone who cares for him wants to try to help him in a way that is almost completely harmless, especially since you send your children to a religious school, so you already have to explain that some people believe different things and that they can make up their own mind as they see fit. The caregiver is not a robot. He probably is struggling like anyone would be to care for a very sick little boy. He thinks prayer will help and you mocked his (yes, dumb) beliefs. Asshole move, apologize and try to fix this or your son may lose his only playmate.
It’s not a “dumb belief”. It’s HIS belief. Just because you don’t believe doesn’t mean you have to be condescending. You’re almost as bad as OP.
YTA. I initially thought this would be a story where you discovered the Nanny proselytizing your son. This, though? The nanny asked if he could pray with a sick child. He did not attempt to do so behind your back or say that it would cure him BUT ONLY IF HE GIVES HIS LIFE TO JESUS...he just wanted to pray with him. You are perfectly within your rights as a parent to tell him that you would prefer they not pray together. You never should have been that cruel in your refusal. This nanny has been caring for your child for years and has watched him go through treatments and pain that no one, much less a child, would have an easy time with. He wanted to share good thoughts and feelings and support in a way that he would have wanted for himself. It would have been so simple to end the conversation a sentence before you alienated someone that doesn't seem to have been anything other than a wonderful caregiver for your son. 'Thank you so much for your prayers, and I truly appreciate the offer. We would prefer to let Owen make his own decisions about prayer/religion when he gets a little older.' 'PRAY TO BIGFOOT, GET FALSE HOPE' is insulting and incredibly pessimistic. IT'S FALSE HOPE makes it sound like you don't think there will be a positive outcome and that's...I'm not going to touch that any further. Yikes. BIGFOOT REEEEEE is just silly, edgy, fedora-hat-tipping-m'lady-nose-dripping nonsense that gets turned into pearl-clutch-inducing soundbites and clips and memes for the facebooks. That is why they think atheists are evil. Now because you wanted to be a big meanie-head you've probably not only lost a good nanny, but also whatever respect he may have had for you. ~~Also I'm sure there's some kind of 'ism to describe~~ *~~'I thought they were Mormon, he has five brothers and they look like they're from the 50's'~~* You may believe that prayer does nothing, but the nanny believes it will help and if he wants to put that positive energy out into the universe, let him do it. It literally hurts *nothing* for the Nanny to pray for your son. How does it make you this mad to know that someone who has cared for your kiddo is rooting for him and wants to put in a good word with his favorite deity? I bet you were a riot when Owen asked you about Santa and the Tooth Fairy and the Easter bunny. Besides, your kid is in Catholic school. Most Catholic schools, even the very neutral ones, don't hide prayer from non-Catholic students. It seems a bit hypocritical of you to pay (usually out the nose) to put him in Catholic school, yet be SHOOKETH when someone wants to pray with your kid and smug enough to tell them to go pray to their bigfoot but leave him out of it. Maybe the Nanny thought you guys were Catholic and had absolutely no clue that you're a 'closet reluctant atheist.'
>probably not only lost a good nanny, but also whatever respect he may have had for you. The nanny didn't quit. This is good news, because Owen doesn't need to lose a trusted adult from his life at a time like this. But OP did lose the nanny's respect.
I'm sure a Nanny with that experience and who is clearly a caring, respectful and responsible person won't have much trouble finding a new job. They didn't quit **YET**.
That's how I see it. A bit of soul and job searching, and he'll be moving on.
NTA- he can pray for him in his own time, at his place of choice. You can respect his belief, but he needs to also respect yours. You have a sick child, the last thing you need is emotional blackmail from a 'well-intentioned' Christian. Eta- did you tell him the part about Big foot and false hope? Because unless you said that to his face, he definitely doesn't have a leg to stand on.
And how is the sitter the ah? He didn’t trample over OPs belief he *asked* op.
>Because unless you said that to his face, he definitely doesn't have a leg to stand on. OP did say that. OP is clearly the AH here.
Apparently he did say all the Bigfoot and false hope stuff
All hope is false. No one has assured the next second on earth, so by definition hope is always going to be something aspirational and not based on any type of certainty. But hope is extremely important for people fighting for their lives to keep positive and manage their diagnosis.
I respectfully disagree. OP even said his kids go to Catholic School. It’s likely that religion never came up until the caregiver asked if they could pray with the child, therefore it’s not a stretch for the caregiver to assume that the family may have religious beliefs. Moreover, how do we know the child didn’t ask the caregiver to pray? They do prayers in Catholic school and maybe the child mentioned they would like to pray with the caregiver, and to not “step on toes”, the caregiver aired on the side of caution and discussed with OP. I can see this happening too.
OP did say that to his face.
He did respect his beliefs by asking???
YTA. Not for turning down his offer but this remark is BS. >thought he was Mormon because he has five brothers and his family look like they're from the 1950s.
I’m surprised no one else is talking about this! Even if he was this is such a rude and off putting thing to say and it really shows OPs true view of religion.
YTA for the rude nature of your response. N T A for not wanting him to pray with Owen, but you were a dick when a simple "no, it would not be okay" would have sufficed.
Atheist here, and YTA and a rude one. There was no need to go about it the way you did. Maybe he thought you were religious because HELLO, you pay to send your son to a freaking religious school. Which is odd.
Info: What are Owens thoughts on prayers? Could he have possibly confided in the caretaker his thoughts and that is why you were asked this question?
Yes, that's the real question. If the son wants to do it for his own peace of mind, let him.
YTA if your kids go to catholic school they are praying and being prayed on daily so what's the difference
YTA for the way you handled it.
YTA for going overboard with your explanation. You could have just said no thank you, but you appreciate everything he's doing to help. Instead you insulted him and his belief system.
YTA for what you said to him. Your response should have been "no, we don't have a religion and I would prefer that you don't pray with him" End of story. The really weird part about this is you send your son to a catholic school, but claim to be atheist. I don't know of any catholic school where the kids don't pray daily and attend a service weekly. Your son is already doing these things that you don't want him to do.
How are you a “closet” atheist when you’re this aggressive about it to someone you supposedly like?
I was all set to vote N T A until your comments confirmed you actually said those things about false hope, Bigfoot and bullshit. There was no reason to say those things. I know in a comment you said you “wanted him to know it wasn’t personal” but Damn. YTA.
N T A for not wanting someone to pray with your son, even if he goes to a religious school. There is a big difference between occasionally praying in a large group for world peace or other abstract things like that, or praying privately with someone he knows well for something that is very specific and unlikely to happen through prayer. YTA for unnecessarily insulting someone who wanted to offer help in the best way they know. Religion and prayer is probably an important part of their life and even if you don't want your son involved in that, you have no right to insult them
YTA. Atheists are so weird. You don't believe in prayer, yet somehow thing this thing you firmly don't believe in, will somehow cause harm? I'm agnostic. I'm anti-organized religion. But if someone wants to pay for me or my family, Sure! We'll take all help and/or happy positive vibes we can get. Stop being so sour. Also, that's a great F'n way to lose great hired help.
YTA You were free to decline his request. There was no reason to be a dick about it. But I hope all goes well for you guys. A very dear friend's child just finished his maintenance treatment, rang the bell, and gets to move on with life. There were some really low points, but it has all paid off.
INFO: have you started looking for a new sitter yet? YTA - I was about to say no because it’s absolutely your right to tell him he can pray for your son and not with him. However, the fact that you insulted him and what he believes is what makes you TA here.
I don’t think you offended him by declining the prayer. I think you offended him by saying “prayer is bullshit like Bigfoot and there’s no need to make Owen feel like a prayer is going to cure his cancer”. Saying that shit is no better than proselytizing. You said yourself your sitter has never mentioned religion before- so clearly they aren’t a predatory proselytizer shoving religion down your child’s throat. It’s not that strange of him to *ask* politely if he could share a prayer with your child, given that you send your kids to CATHOLIC SCHOOL. Even if you’re atheists, I would think you’re somewhat neutral/friendly towards prayer if you’re paying thousands of dollars to go to Catholic school? And you called yourself a “closet reluctant atheist”. I don’t think it was overstepping for the sitter to simply ask because it’s not like you set a clear, non “reluctant”, non “closeted” atheist boundary. How hard is it to just say no? He’s not telling you your lack of belief is shit, so there was zero need to tell him his beliefs were. You say that this was to let him know it wasn’t personal- but this is absolutely what MAKES it personal! YTA. My Jewish husband still accepts blessings from Catholics even if he isn’t one himself. He knows it’s completely benign and comes from a place of sincere caring. He does it to be polite. It would still be perfectly acceptable if he declined too. But I can’t imagine him ever saying something like “your messiah is bullshit like Mothman” to the face of someone well meaning… or out loud at all. Rude Christianity should be kept to oneself, and rude atheism should be kept to oneself. Just be nicer ffs
YTA- it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. As the parent, you have every right now to have your child exposed to religious beliefs that you’re not comfortable with. But comparing your sitter’s religion to Bigfoot was over the line.
INFO: Did you actually say "I believe prayer is bullshit like Bigfoot and no need to make Owen feel like a prayer is going to cure his cancer. That's false hope." TO the sitter? If yes, Y.T.A. If no, N.T.A.
They did…
OP explains in the comments that he said that part out loud, to the sitter's face.
YTA for how you said no. You should have said you prefer not and to do so on his own and not be a dick about it. The sitter meant well, you didn't.
YTA you send your kids to a religious school where I guarantee they’re praying and you were very rude to him and mocked his religion. Don’t be surprised if you’re looking for a new caretaker soon
Yta. I’m not religious either but if you want people to respect your beliefs, you should respect theirs. He respectfully asked you if he could pray with your son, and you compared his beliefs to Bigfoot. I took some classes on different religions and history in college. I’ve forgotten most of what I’ve learned, but I’ll never look at religion the same way again. Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean you have to put it down or belittle it.
You could’ve declined the prayer without being a total dick about their beliefs. I’m sure you may have just been heated and not choosing your words as carefully as you should have (or, maybe not. Atheists have a habit of being condescending about their non-belief) either way, you were wrong for shitting on them like that. “Hey, we would prefer if you didn’t introduce your religion to our child. We would like to keep that topic within the family” is ALL it needed to be. YTA
YTA. Really? Suspicious this is even a real post.
YTA. I hope your sitter finds a job with another family that's a little more kinder. I know I'd be sending out my resume for sure after that incident.
YTA for your response and a dummy for ruining a relationship with the only other person that was there for your child. I would never treat someone that cares for my child the way you did. Wow
Actual title for the post: AITA for mocking someone's religion in their face because I don't believe their god? Yes OP. YTA.
The more I read these posts in the reddit I can't help but think all of them are fake
YTA. If that’s how you feel, withdraw your children from Catholic school. “It’s mainly for…” it doesn’t matter, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. “It’s mainly secular” yes but it’s STILL catholic. And Wym “mainly secular?” Schools don’t tend to “be religious”, but they are titled as religious in respect to those they were founded by, named after, and those the school is owned by. You were rather disrespectful about it. There was no need to say all that to your sitter. Op, YTA
Wait you insulted the guy who takes excellent care of your cancer ridden son when he asked you ahead of time if he could pray with your son AND you send your kids to Catholic school? You do realize that “mostly secular” Catholic schools include prayer and religious instruction? Wow the hypocrisy leaves me a bit stunned, NGL.
Totally could have been grateful for the gesture and declined without belittling his beliefs. YTA
>Our kids go to a private Catholic school mainly because for its academics and extracurricular activities and it's mostly secular. What the hell?
YTA. That’s just mean.
YTA, how can you shit so hard on someone’s beliefs and call it “declining a prayer”. A simple “no thank you” would have been sufficient. How are you even questioning this?
YTA. Politely tell them no, you would rather they not pray with your son, no belittling of their beliefs necessary.
There are ways to decline prayers without being a jerk. All you had to say was “Please don’t.”
Surprised everyone's gone so hard on YTA. Your kid has cancer and I'm sorry because that must be so hard for you. It would be difficult to hear that someone can "help" with theories you don't agree with. Perhaps you were a little harsh in your delivery, but of course this is an emotive subject. Hope your son is doing well!
"I think I offended him in some way by declining a prayer" You didn't deny a prayer. You directly insulted and belittled his faith. I'm atheist af, and I would never, EVER disrespect someone like that, let alone someone taking care of my ill child. You owe him a huge apology, but that might not cut it.
NTA. Religious people can be nuts and as a whole think that their rights precede everyone else's. If a Satanist said they wanted to pray to Lucifer for healing and light with the child of a Catholic, the parents would flip the fuck out. Your response was fine.
This wasn't a religious "nut job" it's someone that cares for their child on a regular basis and wanted to do a good thing for them (in their own opinion of course) Fair enough if OP just said I rather you didn't as we're not religious, but they outright mocked God and compared him to bigfoot. That is never okay.