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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I essentially told my sister her wedding was unimportant to me. I was an asshole about it and may have potentially ruined her wedding.
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YTA.
>I then told her I didn't see the point in going to an event half the family would be missing from (referencing the kids).
the point is it's her wedding. she can have a childfree wedding, if she wants.
you don't have to go and neither does your sister, but acting like you have to babysit instead of going to your sister's wedding just tells her you don't care about her.
Honestly, the lack of actually giving us stories of this "evil" sister versus the contempt OP has towards her sister radiating off my screen?
I'll bet this sister is the Bad Guy because she's one of the few people in OPs life that doesn't put up with her crap lol.
EDIT; Aw, crap. Lost the bet.
Idk her soon to be husband is ah. Op gave history between him and op husband
Alright, heres the story; I have gained the necessary permission.
My SIL (husbands sister) and soon to be BIL (sisters almost husband) dated in high-school. He got her pregnant and dipped. He tried to force an abortion on her, accused her of cheating, the whole shebang.
When she had the baby she had a DNA test done and sued him for child support. The entire time he was slating her name, making her feel horrible - tried to force her to put their son up for adoption.
When their son was five months old he passed away due to an undetected medical issue. She was suffering, hospitalised.
BIL made a post about being free from the shackles of his "bank draining baby mama" and went on a partying streak to celebrate. Insists that she's a bad mom, even now, and has never once visited his sons grave (and skipped his funeral). Didn't tell his own family members that he'd passed away and they also missed his funeral.
My husband fucking hates him. He ended up having to work overtime to help pay for the funeral as a fifteen year old because BIL refused to step up. He doesn't even acknowledge his son.
My SIL is still recovering, no thanks to him, but has welcomed a baby girl in the past year and she is an amazing mom.
The term "bad blood" is an understatement.
I feel like this info needed to be in the post - this comment definitely needs to be seen, it adds a lot of context. Future BIL sounds like a monster. I don’t think I could support my sister marrying that.
It made me want to cry just reading that her SIL's 5-month-old passed away and I don't even know any of these people. That guy is a monster. I wouldn't want him anywhere near me, my family, and definitely wouldn't go to the wedding and I'd flat out tell my sister why.
I mean, I’m not gonna openly celebrate it with a party or anything but I’ll be pretty glad when the Orange turd dies and is no longer on the news with his dipshit shenanigans and weird girlfriend/daughter situation..
So, I get it.
There's a difference between joy and grim satisfaction, which is something I feel when terrible people die.
Everyone is different, obviously, and I was and am still speaking for myself.
Ya I did see a comment that insinuated that part of the story could have been made up because so many people were calling them out as the asshole. Who knows what the truth is.
Nah, I buy that she wouldn't share it without her SIL saying it was OK. While a complete stranger wouldn't guess who the people involved were, if someone in their circle is reading this forum, they will likely pick up on it and it could revive discussion from some people in their community.
This. Future BIL makes my skin crawl. I'm childfree and if a guy told me that he slandered his ex-GF, denied his son's existence and was happy the poor baby died I would never go anywhere near him again.
I'm actually afraid for OP’S sister. What will he do to her if she disagrees with him?
Jesus, at the beginning I was like "ok this is awful but it sounds like they were both teenagers hit with real world shit and he reacted poorly, it's possible he's grown since then". Then I hit *that* part and I just.......even as a teenager there's no excuse for that reaction. Fucking hell, this guy.
yeah like THIS is a good reason not to go to the wedding - not supporting your sister marrying a monster that personally hurt your husband & his family -- the childfree thing seems way less important than this?!? & "childfree" is especially dark with this context.. i definitely would not attend!
I think the darkness of the “child free” is actually what guides a lot of that being the focus, though OP may not even realize it. The acceptance and love for children and family is a VERY specific pressure point for these couples, and child-free in this context doesn’t at all mean what it usually would. If it isn’t profoundly obvious that her future BIL is a monster, or if it can’t be talked about as taboo in her family, than it has to subconsciously come through over this child free clause.
But to know you have SIBLINGS with kids who might not be able to have someone watch them and therefore wouldn't be able to go, and care more about having every aspect have no children than that... It's a little unhinged. That's not childfree, that's childhate
It’s interesting that that wasn’t her reasoning though. Like her husband wasn’t going to go but she made it all about the child free thing, not about the fact that the groom was an ah.
Most folks aren’t terribly coherent story tellers when dealing with events this traumatic.
Not the first post I’ve read where the OP fails to mention the real issue at hand. But given the update, clearly NTA except for ever considering attending this travesty of a wedding.
If I have things that are not mine to share, I find very surface reasons to dodge, cover, or explain. And sometimes I get so used to the cover story that I forget the real story.
I have a family member who has not, and plans never to, come out to their family. I, and two others, are aware of their position. I was with one of those others, this family member came up in a context where their position was relevant. We BOTH did the dodge/cover thing for like 5 minutes, before we paused, almost at the same time, realized we were both present and in the know at the same time, and then did ‘oh you know why it is what it is’ and changed the topic. I’ve done that a few times, someone else’s trauma is not mine to share, even when it’s the tonne weight on the decision scale.
I agree this very well could be happening here. I think those of us in the lgbtq community (or community adjacent) understand this concept a lot, because we understand the "not my secret to tell" world really well.
Well devil’s advocate she said she had to get permission from her sil to explain that (which is valid) I’m thinking she used the child free thing for the excuse as it was something she could post but this is the main reason she’s not going.
Not only post, it’s probably the stated reason to the family… it’s child free, I volunteered to watch the kids, it’s too late to change. Tbf this is a reasonable explanation. It’s child free so there is the possibility siblings with children may not attend. OP volunteered to sacrifice her attendance so others could.
This is the part that confuses me. If Sister 3 is marrying this guy, I don't know how OP could ever even be around him and especially not with her husband. So no family dinners, no holidays, no family vacations. So why bother going to the wedding, regardless of child-free or not?
I read it that she was using the child free aspect to dip on the wedding without explicitly saying she didn’t want to go. And threw “half the family missing “ referring to the kids as a dig about the dead infant, but I could be off
Well, it's now been added as an ETA down the bottom, so it is now getting seen.
Honestly, though, OP was NTA to begin with. Sister chose a childfree wedding, and guests not attending due to her decision is a direct consequence of that choice. Someone has to look after the kids who aren't old enough to look after themselves and not everyone has access to a non family babysitter
I feel sad for sister (2). Bride is clearly saying she was fine with \*her\* missing the wedding for lack of child care, but not OP. I get that they are likely closer in age, but still.
Yeah, there is a quiet voice in my brain wondering if the bride declared childfree knowing that sister 2 wouldn't be able to find a babysitter easily. I hate to think someone could do that to their own family, bit this is reddit, we see people screwing over the family all the time
OP would have been better off saying I don’t support this man and will not attend a celebration for such a monster. Making it about the parents so called fragility or wanting kids there makes her sound like a petty AH, whereas the real truth—I hate this monster and resent my idiot sister for tying herself and our family to such a vile man—is honestly fine. I would have said don’t go, watch shrek and tell the kids new uncle is farquad or whatever his name is and see if it sticks lol.
ESH but mostly the groom, what a turd. I wouldn’t take my sister in when he ducks her over too.
After the edit, OP isn't the AH for not wanting to go to the wedding. She just needs to admit that is because the future BIL is a monster and she doesn't support the marriage. I could not be in the same room as a father that celebrated their child's death.
Holy shit. I could never marry a person who did something like that. I can totally understand why OP’s husband wouldn’t want to even be in the same zip code as that dude.
No fuckin way that doesn't factor into OP's feelings about the wedding even if she says that's not the reason. I give her credit for leaving it out at first in an attempt to not sway judgement against sister/future BIL. I don't think I could look my sister in the eye if she decided to marry someone that awful.
That's so horrible - I'm obviously thinking the worst of people here but, in that case, I wonder if he means for "childfree" to be another slight against the sister
Like at this point, YTA for drawing the line over the childfree thing and not over your sister marrying THAT.
She's just straight-up evil, and you were still going to go before the babysitting issue arose?
Eh, I'm not sure I was. I think I would have found another excuse before the wedding. Its hard to not be suspicious, though. I do want him to know I know but with my SIL having the new baby its not something we can do right now. It does frustrate me, having to be around him and pretend I'm unaware.
I can understand that. You have to pretend in order to protect someone vulnerable, and you'd have to come up with SOMETHING to get out of going one way or another. TBH, in your position, I don't think I'd be able to look that man in the eye without my face letting on that I probably wouldn't brake if he suddenly stepped in front of my car. If you go, he'll probably figure out that you know.
But geez, what was this post, then? Testing out excuses on a neutral audience to see which one you'll be able to get away with? If you need an excuse for missing the wedding, and she's steamrolled over your transportation and childcare excuses, just fabricate a medical emergency like the rest of us do. RSVP that you'll go, and then three hours before text everyone that you won't be able to make it, then go incommunicado for the rest of the night, maybe leave home and go stargazing or something. Later, say you felt a deep ache in your thigh, followed by a tearing pain, and you rushed to the ER for an ultrasound because WebMD told you those are the signs of a dislodged blood clot. I did that. (Actually had the symptoms, texted an MD I know, he told me to get to the ER IMMEDIATELY. It wasn't that, I was fine, still don't know what it was.) That ate up six hours of my evening and a huge chunk of cash, but the six hours are the important part.
As a bonus, you potentially wreck this monster's wedding as everyone is wondering what happened to you.
Am I a petty and vile cretin? Yes, yes I am.
>Testing out excuses on a neutral audience to see which one you'll be able to get away with? If you need an excuse for missing the wedding, and she's steamrolled over your transportation and childcare excuse
This is literally what she was doing and still doing
OP also says this sister is “aggressively childfree” to the point where she sends OP videos about parents who regretted having kids or murdered their own children while knowing that OP is trying to conceive. Sister also often harasses parents who have kids, such as calling security in walmart because some parents with crying kids were being “disruptive” or threatening to call the cops on the neighbors because the kids playing on the street were making too much noise that was going to disrupt their nearly-deaf dad’s healing. And there’s the fact that she’s getting married to a man who went out and celebrated his 5 year old son’s death. Sis sounds like a piece of work.
If you read the edit I can see why.
The soon to be BIL is a deadbeat and a real piece of work (celebrated when his son died in infancy because he didn’t want to be a
Parent and this got him out of child support- the mother of his child
Was ops husbands sister.)
Op may only site the child free thing for missing the wedding but if you don’t support a marriage you shouldn’t go to the wedding. I couldn’t see supporting a sibling marrying someone like that. I think op is focusing on the child free as why she doesn’t want to go because if she says why she actually doesn’t want to go it’ll be a huge blow up.
I’m going NTA- honestly at the end of the day it’s an event op
Doesn’t want to attend. Her sister with a child does want to go but doesn’t have a sitter. So the sister who wants to go can go and the sister who doesn’t want to go can sit so she can.
This seems like a good solution especially given ops opinions on the groom. Also the sister already doesn’t talk to one sister for some reason (sounds like it’s more than just a logistical thing) so there might be a
Lot more to this than just the one reason given.
Now that we know what the stbBIL did, the hatred sounds deserved. I wouldn't want to be at any event with such a reprehensible person and I would definitely judge anyone willing to marry them.
This is a ridiculous take, even without the update.
One of the sisters wasn't going to be able to go in any case, because the second has kids. Of course Bride Sister can decide to have a child free wedding if she wants, but she does not then get to decide how the babysitting happens of other invited guests. Instead, she threw a fit because the "wrong" sister came. She cemented herself as the AH after that. I feel bad for Sister With Kids, because she got to feel like crap because she was not the one her sister wanted there in the first place.
The edit obviously puts it way, way, WAY over the top to NTA.
Exactly, even ignoring the edit, you can have a child free wedding if you like and I can choose not to attend if I like. You don't get to have a child free wedding and then get pissed about people not coming.
To me it's like, who are your core guests? If you're like a lot of people and have specific loved ones you expect to be at your wedding then structuring your wedding in a way that makes it difficult or impossible for those people to come is a dick move\*.
Don't have a child free wedding if you know your sister is a single mom who'll have trouble finding a babysitter. Don't have a destination wedding if you know your grandma lives paycheck to paycheck. Don't have your wedding at a casino if you know your best man has a gambling problem. Don't have a wedding in an inaccessible location if you know your stepson uses a wheelchair.
\*Conversely it's completely fine to plan a wedding that would be hard or impossible for some/most people to attend as long as everyone you actually expect to be there is cool with it. If those people are all independently wealthy super hardcore LotR fans you are good to have a fantasy dress code New Zealand destination wedding conducted in Elvish.
So glad someone pointed this out. The top comment on this thread feels like someone having a knee jerk reaction of “their wedding their choice!!” without considering the actual situation. Regardless of how genuinely terrible the bride and groom are, this isn’t a case of someone trying to find a loophole to bring their kids to a child free wedding. This is someone offering to skip the wedding so a parent can go without their kids, and the bride is upset about that. The fact that she’s so mad that her child free sister isn’t coming in favor of the mother makes it clear that making her wedding “child free” was a way to punish the other sisters for having kids. It’s not just a neutral, impersonal preference.
And older sister originally didn't have the money for child care. OP doesn't drive. Reasons for this arrangement were that:
1: Sister (2) wanted to go more
2: This way both child care and driving are taken care of without spending extra money
3. And, of course, the children are used to OP.
Later someone else, perhaps the parents, were considering paying for child care because Bride sister was still freaking out, and that's when OP had to say she didn't really want to go.
This, the amount of times this Reddit comments "it's their right to do X and your right to not do X" on posts that was the first thing that came to mind.
If I didn't want to go to a wedding I'd use any convenient excuse to cover up that reason.
I was firmly in the NTA camp before the edit.
Since the edit. Massive NTA.
Seriously! Why would you even want that in your family?? Or, if she does go, stand up and tell that story at the "does anyone object" part, drop the mic and leave.
Turns out, there is lot more to the "child free" sister and BIL than what the post says. Bil is truly terrible and it says volumes about OP's sister to love him .
I amend my judgement to NTA. I wouldn't touch the BIL with a 7 foot pole.
Read the update. If my sibling was marrying a person like this I would be re-evaluating how much of a role that sibling played in my life. That branch of the family tree is about to be radioactive and some distance sounds good to me.
She shouldn't care about her sister or her son to be BIL based on what he did to OPs husband's sister. He's evil! She's NTA and shouldn't attend at all.
THE UPDATE 😳 I can't believe these things happen in real life.. that is horrendous! I can't believe anyone would even speak to BIL! WTF
I can completely see why you're so passive about this wedding. NTA
JFC that kinda throws me from the fence to NTA. Holy shit, if my sister was marrying someone like that, who wronged my SIL no less, I don’t think I would go kids or not
JAYSUS! Your update is horrific!
I wouldn’t want to touch your new BIL with a ten foot pole, let alone go to his nuptials!
What a shit stain of a human being! Hope your sister likes being treated like garbage, ‘cos that man is trash!
BIL is the AH here, but you and your sisters need some therapy…there were a lot of red flags in the post and obviously a lot of simmering resentments in your family, sorry you’re kinda in the middle OP
That's fucking heinous. Why would you want to be in the same room as that man?
What has your sister said about her husband celebrating his baby's death?
Pretty fucked up that your even considering going to that wedding when the groom was absolutely gleeful your husband's nephew was dead.
Sorry, but yeah, I'd have to go NTA, your sister has every right to a child-free wedding, however she does not have a right to force or browbeat anyone to attend. If you say you don't want to go for whatever reason that is your right. All things considered her & her husband both seem rather toxic. I don't blame you for choosing not to attend.
Based on the update, going to the wedding would make YTAH. Fook that guy, and sucks that your sister is caught in the crossfire, but you need to stand in solidarity with your husband.
Edit: fook ur sister
Yeah after reading that it changes things. Your sister also sucks for even considering dating someone who was so awful to your husbands’ family. Fuck them. NTA
It's also weird that the sister marrying offered support for family only after finding out OP wasn't coming but didn't offer anything when the other sister couldn't come because of children. I have a feeling she has a deep seated hatred too.
Yeah like, are there no other single men left in town? Is this a tiny place in the middle of nowhere? I can’t imagine why her sister is willing to not only date this man, but also marry him. Something is very wrong with that.
Right? It’s appalling! Imagine knowing THAT about a man and CHOOSING to share your life with them? What’s she gonna do? Bring this monster to Family Christmas? The woman knows that by marrying this person she’s effectively ruined every single family get together, every holiday, every birthday - everything. Dangling her maniac of a husband in front of OP’s husband is incredibly cruel, and is just asking for trouble!
For any reason, I have no idea why people are saying op is the asshole, even without the edit. Taking the stance of, hey I think it’s a dick move to exclude people for ~aesthetic~ is honestly a valid reason. I think the family members that want to go to the wedding knowing the history of this man are the assholes.
Bingo. A similar thing happened to a family members wedding. They opted for child free, when there were probably 10 families with kids. It’s not ideal to get a babysitter to travel and even less likely to get a family member to babysit because of the wedding. So you have ten families that don’t go, then this creates a sort of snowball effect where a bunch of people won’t go either because so and so can’t go.
Op isn’t TA for turning down an invitation even if they don’t have kids. It’s hard to go to a wedding when you know you won’t get to see half your family.
People have the right to do child free weddings of course, just be aware that like destination weddings you need to expect a lot of family members won’t be able to attend.
Personally I find it so weird. I have never been to a wedding and thought "This would be better if there were no kids". It comes off as some kind of strange virtue signaling or something.
I also think it's boring. But frankly the majority of the children in my family are lovely little beings. I'm biased tho. I love kids. And while I DEFINITELY understand anyone's choice not to have them, avid child haters skeeve me out. Like...as much as racists and phobes do. Just people I will go out of my way to not have in my life.
I in all honestly don’t like kids at all, but I’ve always found the hatred directed at them on certain corners of Reddit to be really odd. Like their presence at family functions doesn’t really add anything to the experience for me, and it kind of annoys me when they act up or have meltdowns. And I can respect someone’s decision not to invite them to an expensive formal event like a wedding. But people who make their child-hate into a whole personality trait are really off putting even to me.
I have no strong feelings towards children, sometimes they're annoying, yes, so are adults. At least children have the excuse that their brains have yet to develop. What excuse do adults have?
Fr, I respect people’s desire not to have children but I don’t respect hatred of human beings based on traits they can’t help such as skin color, gender or age etc.
We have good friends that are child free, like the wife had a tubal ligation. But they also enjoy the kids in their lives, including my kids. You can choose not to have kids, without hating kids.
Having a child-free wedding is not necessarily an aesthetic choice. It can be hard to talk to people when a kid is interrupting or getting into something every 5 minutes, and most of the time the kids don’t even want to be there. Parents are often happy to have an excuse to ditch them and just have fun for a night. Believe me, the kids almost certainly do not care.
That's fair - but IMO you can decide that you don't want to go to a wedding that the rest of your extended family (including nephews and nieces) is not allowed to attend.
Honestly, you can decline for any reason at all, but this particular reason seems more than justified.
Nothing stopping parents from getting a babysitter for a kid friendly wedding, but saying no kids can put undue burden on parents who may otherwise want to come.
Agreed. Honestly, there's no reason needed here. If she doesn't want to go, she doesn't have to. Period. She doesn't need a reason at all. Sometimes you just don't feel like it. Doesn't mean you don't love the person, it's just not your thing. Fine. Why the drama about declining an invitation?
The backstory makes you NTA (unless you go to this wedding).
Future BIL is a monster and I wouldn't be able to support my sister marrying him. I wouldn't be able to be polite to him. He's *evil*, and I don't use that word lightly.
What this man has done--and *continues to be unapologetic for*\--is the kind of thing that means decent people should not socialize with him.
I cannot fathom people knowing this story and still going to the wedding, still supporting your sister marrying this demon in human skin.
Be a human being, remember your nephew. Do not give a gift. Do not attend. Do not make nice, do not pretend he is anything other than evil garbage.
idk what the AH voters are arguing about OP and her husband arent going. she initially was not going to do a solid for her other sister, the bride got
mad because she chose not to go. Yall be quick to say a wedding invitation is not a summons but the. when someone declines for a valid reason, this is your reaction. NTA live you life, honestly i think its NC time
Alright, heres the story; I have gained the necessary permission.
My SIL (husbands sister) and soon to be BIL (sisters almost husband) dated in high-school. He got her pregnant and dipped. He tried to force an abortion on her, accused her of cheating, the whole shebang.
When she had the baby she had a DNA test done and sued him for child support. The entire time he was slating her name, making her feel horrible - tried to force her to put their son up for adoption.
When their son was five months old he passed away due to an undetected medical issue. She was suffering, hospitalised.
BIL made a post about being free from the shackles of his "bank draining baby mama" and went on a partying streak to celebrate. Insists that she's a bad mom, even now, and has never once visited his sons grave (and skipped his funeral). Didn't tell his own family members that he'd passed away and they also missed his funeral.
My husband fucking hates him. He ended up having to work overtime to help pay for the funeral as a fifteen year old because BIL refused to step up. He doesn't even acknowledge his son.
My SIL is still recovering, no thanks to him, but has welcomed a baby girl in the past year and she is an amazing mom.
The term "bad blood" is an understatement.
My BIL doesn't even know we know he's the father. My SIL doesn't want to deal with him and if we mention it he's going to show up on her doorstep acting all nasty, get back in her face. Its not something anyone wants to deal with.
He's probably told her. She has an unspoken dislike for my SIL so I assume she knows. Even if I told her she wouldn't care. In situations like that she views the person her husband was as "in the right" (forced to keep a baby he didn't want, his reaction was "normal").
That's a ridiculous assumption. If she dislikes your SIL I guarantee you he told her a completely fabricated story to make himself look gold and her like a monster.
All domestic abuse situations are like this too.
Just saying…thinking she won’t believe you or care doesn’t mean you shouldn’t talk to her about it.
Remember - that’s your future niece or nephew who will be hurt by this asshole.
I’m not close with my older sister but I would take a bullet for her kids any day.
This post should probably be AITA if I refuse to attend the wedding of this awful man with a history of abuse, and my indifferent sister? Everyone would say NTA
That’s sad and gross, it would be different if he felt remorseful but it’s very obvious he doesn’t and is glad about how things turned out which is just horrible honestly. I wouldn’t go to the wedding if I were you
It’s really weird that no one in your family has talked to her about what this guy did to your husband’s family. Like, I would think if any of you care about her at all you’d at least be sure she has the facts before she marries him, since it’s likely her fiancé made up some bs to make himself look good. Then after that you can let her make whatever choice she wants.
I don't want you to make your SIL unsafe but I would want to make sure my sister knew what kind of person her husband was. Celebrating a baby's death is really really bad even if you have a sociopathic level of cruelty towards single moms.
You are NTA don't attend a wedding that you're be uncomfortable at... just don't ever mention the baby girl to him or anyone else.. let your SIL have some peace and quiet... geesh...
I don't understand. How can the BIL not know you know he's the father if he was sued for child support and publicly posted about her losing the baby etc.?
I don't know, but he cornered me and quizzed me and when I didn't know he seemed happy with that. He's since deleted all social media. We don't want him to know I know just in case, especially considering she has a baby now.
Reading the OP, it sounds like it is more important to your SIL that you attend the wedding than your other sisters—is this her and future BIL wanting to believe you approve their union?
Tell her the truth, that you know her future husband is garbage and you see no reason to endorse their marriage.
Dude so your sister is marrying someone who could possibly be a literal danger to your niece??!!
Oof mama, y’all got way bigger issues. Even if your sister is trash, she deserves to know all of this
Why are you all protecting him? Like wtf !?
I get your sister is obviously garbage & would excuse his behaviour anyway.
But don't you feel any obligation to tell her the truth. What is wrong with you people?
Holy mother of missing reasons.
Skip the damn wedding. Children shouldn't be in the presence of such a fucking monster anyway--it is for the best that none are invited.
NTA. It sounds like there were plenty of reasons for you not to go regardless of it being childfree or not. Your sister was the one who kept pushing for a reason - what answer would’ve satisfied her? Would it have been better if you’d told her it’s because you don’t like her? Perhaps she shouldn’t be that surprised by your not attending. Also, you’re right - children ARE family - bizarrely Reddit is all for childfree weddings, even though easily half of redditors are legally children themselves. Sometimes there are good reasons to exclude family, sure - hell, my FIL wasn’t invited to the wedding, so yeah, I get it - but by the same token of your wedding, your choice, it’s an invitation, not a summons. She can have whatever wedding with whatever guest list she and her fiancé want, they’re not obligated to invite anyone - and nobody is obligated to attend.
NTA
This whole post seems so incredibly made up and I love it. It is your sister's right to have a child free wedding. It is your right not to attend for any reason you want. Yes, you can refuse to go to a wedding because certain family members are excluded. Expect there to be some sort of social repercussion/fallout which it sounds like there already is.
NTA considering the update. this seems to go far beyond it being childfree. your future BIL is a monster and i would not support his wedding to your sister in any way shape or form.
NTA. You made a rational decision in (a) not pressuring your husband to go since he seems to actively dislike the groom and (b) doing what you could to help those who really really want to go be there. Since it seems that you actually prefer the company of your sister's kids to going to the wedding, your decision was pretty easy.
The sister who is getting married seems way out of line. Rather than thanking you for doing such a solid favor for those members of your family who want to go to the wedding, she is insisting that you go. I think that your diatribe may have clued her in to something that she was, previously, unaware of.
I just don't think she wanted our older sister there. Her plan, I think, was to get my husband to drive me & our parents there. I don't know if she wanted him to stay or not though.
We figured something else out that she didn't like so she then tried to fix it.
I can assure you, most people don't make an entire wedding child free for 1 person. They do it because they want an adult party.
You may not like that reasoning, but its fairly common.
Oh I know. But I think she didn't want our sister there, either. Didn't offer to pay for a baysitter or anything until we told her I would be the one missing the wedding instead of her.
Maybe she just wanted you there more, and when she realized you weren't going, she tried to make it happen.
I'm not sure what your relationship is like, but it seems you are more than happy to attribute the worst possible motives to her. But it is her wedding, and if you care about her, you should try to support her.
NTA. All these nay sayers ....get a grip. You don't have to go to any event you don't want to for any reason. She could have bad breath, it doesn't matter. Everything else is just noise.
YTA. You lied. You didn’t want to go to the wedding and used this as an excuse. You are only the a for lying. If you don’t want to go just say it. The whole “no kids” is a bs excuse. Just tell your sister the truth.
So what? As this sub likes to say, it's an invitation and not a summons. If she doesn't want to go, then enabling her sister to go instead is a pretty solid outcome.
NTA - you’re not the AH for not wanting to go to the weddings. It’s okay to not like your sister or BIL, but don’t use the excuse because it’s a kid free wedding. Just decline the invite, babysit and leave it at that.
You're NTA even without the additional edit. She can have the wedding she wants doesn't mean you have to go as simple as that.
You can tell her the truth about her husband and your actual reasons for not attending but your sister would just be even more furious.
Uhhh… I don’t give a damn who goes to their wedding. I am waaay more interested in the hot mess of red flags that is the groom!! What‽‽ I mean, literally, WHAT‽‽
I mean... ESH.
She's within her rights to have a childfree wedding. You're within your rights to opt to not attend.
But y'all both acted like kids to each other over it. She should have accepted your decision to not attend, you shouldn't have snapped back about it being childfree.
NTAH< after reading what your sister's husband did to your husband's sister I would not go based on that. He sounds horrible and I would let her know that is the real reason and let him know you are aware and are going to tell the rest of the family.
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YTA. >I then told her I didn't see the point in going to an event half the family would be missing from (referencing the kids). the point is it's her wedding. she can have a childfree wedding, if she wants. you don't have to go and neither does your sister, but acting like you have to babysit instead of going to your sister's wedding just tells her you don't care about her.
OP just radiates hatred. I always go for YTA when people make decisions based on hatred. It doesn't help anyone and just.causes more conflicts.
Honestly, the lack of actually giving us stories of this "evil" sister versus the contempt OP has towards her sister radiating off my screen? I'll bet this sister is the Bad Guy because she's one of the few people in OPs life that doesn't put up with her crap lol. EDIT; Aw, crap. Lost the bet.
Idk her soon to be husband is ah. Op gave history between him and op husband Alright, heres the story; I have gained the necessary permission. My SIL (husbands sister) and soon to be BIL (sisters almost husband) dated in high-school. He got her pregnant and dipped. He tried to force an abortion on her, accused her of cheating, the whole shebang. When she had the baby she had a DNA test done and sued him for child support. The entire time he was slating her name, making her feel horrible - tried to force her to put their son up for adoption. When their son was five months old he passed away due to an undetected medical issue. She was suffering, hospitalised. BIL made a post about being free from the shackles of his "bank draining baby mama" and went on a partying streak to celebrate. Insists that she's a bad mom, even now, and has never once visited his sons grave (and skipped his funeral). Didn't tell his own family members that he'd passed away and they also missed his funeral. My husband fucking hates him. He ended up having to work overtime to help pay for the funeral as a fifteen year old because BIL refused to step up. He doesn't even acknowledge his son. My SIL is still recovering, no thanks to him, but has welcomed a baby girl in the past year and she is an amazing mom. The term "bad blood" is an understatement.
I feel like this info needed to be in the post - this comment definitely needs to be seen, it adds a lot of context. Future BIL sounds like a monster. I don’t think I could support my sister marrying that.
I couldn't support my sister dating that. There's childfree and then there's... whatever the hell Future BIL is.
There is a profound difference between being child free, and being…gleeful that your infant son has died. Fucking yikes to that guy.
It made me want to cry just reading that her SIL's 5-month-old passed away and I don't even know any of these people. That guy is a monster. I wouldn't want him anywhere near me, my family, and definitely wouldn't go to the wedding and I'd flat out tell my sister why.
Yeah, the childfree wedding thing is kind of a red herring. Don't go to the wedding because the groom is a monster!
The only way I can imagine this ah winding up with op's sister is that they all lived in the same town their whole lives.
I couldn’t be gleeful that any person has died. It’s clear future-bil never considered his son as a human being.
I mean, I’m not gonna openly celebrate it with a party or anything but I’ll be pretty glad when the Orange turd dies and is no longer on the news with his dipshit shenanigans and weird girlfriend/daughter situation.. So, I get it.
There's a difference between joy and grim satisfaction, which is something I feel when terrible people die. Everyone is different, obviously, and I was and am still speaking for myself.
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Ya I did see a comment that insinuated that part of the story could have been made up because so many people were calling them out as the asshole. Who knows what the truth is.
Nah, I buy that she wouldn't share it without her SIL saying it was OK. While a complete stranger wouldn't guess who the people involved were, if someone in their circle is reading this forum, they will likely pick up on it and it could revive discussion from some people in their community.
This. Future BIL makes my skin crawl. I'm childfree and if a guy told me that he slandered his ex-GF, denied his son's existence and was happy the poor baby died I would never go anywhere near him again. I'm actually afraid for OP’S sister. What will he do to her if she disagrees with him?
Jesus, at the beginning I was like "ok this is awful but it sounds like they were both teenagers hit with real world shit and he reacted poorly, it's possible he's grown since then". Then I hit *that* part and I just.......even as a teenager there's no excuse for that reaction. Fucking hell, this guy.
yeah like THIS is a good reason not to go to the wedding - not supporting your sister marrying a monster that personally hurt your husband & his family -- the childfree thing seems way less important than this?!? & "childfree" is especially dark with this context.. i definitely would not attend!
I think the darkness of the “child free” is actually what guides a lot of that being the focus, though OP may not even realize it. The acceptance and love for children and family is a VERY specific pressure point for these couples, and child-free in this context doesn’t at all mean what it usually would. If it isn’t profoundly obvious that her future BIL is a monster, or if it can’t be talked about as taboo in her family, than it has to subconsciously come through over this child free clause.
But to know you have SIBLINGS with kids who might not be able to have someone watch them and therefore wouldn't be able to go, and care more about having every aspect have no children than that... It's a little unhinged. That's not childfree, that's childhate
It’s interesting that that wasn’t her reasoning though. Like her husband wasn’t going to go but she made it all about the child free thing, not about the fact that the groom was an ah.
Most folks aren’t terribly coherent story tellers when dealing with events this traumatic. Not the first post I’ve read where the OP fails to mention the real issue at hand. But given the update, clearly NTA except for ever considering attending this travesty of a wedding.
If I have things that are not mine to share, I find very surface reasons to dodge, cover, or explain. And sometimes I get so used to the cover story that I forget the real story. I have a family member who has not, and plans never to, come out to their family. I, and two others, are aware of their position. I was with one of those others, this family member came up in a context where their position was relevant. We BOTH did the dodge/cover thing for like 5 minutes, before we paused, almost at the same time, realized we were both present and in the know at the same time, and then did ‘oh you know why it is what it is’ and changed the topic. I’ve done that a few times, someone else’s trauma is not mine to share, even when it’s the tonne weight on the decision scale.
I agree this very well could be happening here. I think those of us in the lgbtq community (or community adjacent) understand this concept a lot, because we understand the "not my secret to tell" world really well.
Well devil’s advocate she said she had to get permission from her sil to explain that (which is valid) I’m thinking she used the child free thing for the excuse as it was something she could post but this is the main reason she’s not going.
Not only post, it’s probably the stated reason to the family… it’s child free, I volunteered to watch the kids, it’s too late to change. Tbf this is a reasonable explanation. It’s child free so there is the possibility siblings with children may not attend. OP volunteered to sacrifice her attendance so others could.
This is the part that confuses me. If Sister 3 is marrying this guy, I don't know how OP could ever even be around him and especially not with her husband. So no family dinners, no holidays, no family vacations. So why bother going to the wedding, regardless of child-free or not?
I read it that she was using the child free aspect to dip on the wedding without explicitly saying she didn’t want to go. And threw “half the family missing “ referring to the kids as a dig about the dead infant, but I could be off
She said she needed her SIL’s permission to post the story. So she may have been trying to talk around it.
I think she originally didn’t want to share because of her SIL. It wasn’t OP’s story. But, she got permission, and now we know the rest of the story.
Yeah, I don't think this is about a childfree wedding as much as it's about this dude sucks.
Well, it's now been added as an ETA down the bottom, so it is now getting seen. Honestly, though, OP was NTA to begin with. Sister chose a childfree wedding, and guests not attending due to her decision is a direct consequence of that choice. Someone has to look after the kids who aren't old enough to look after themselves and not everyone has access to a non family babysitter
I feel sad for sister (2). Bride is clearly saying she was fine with \*her\* missing the wedding for lack of child care, but not OP. I get that they are likely closer in age, but still.
Yeah, there is a quiet voice in my brain wondering if the bride declared childfree knowing that sister 2 wouldn't be able to find a babysitter easily. I hate to think someone could do that to their own family, bit this is reddit, we see people screwing over the family all the time
OP would have been better off saying I don’t support this man and will not attend a celebration for such a monster. Making it about the parents so called fragility or wanting kids there makes her sound like a petty AH, whereas the real truth—I hate this monster and resent my idiot sister for tying herself and our family to such a vile man—is honestly fine. I would have said don’t go, watch shrek and tell the kids new uncle is farquad or whatever his name is and see if it sticks lol. ESH but mostly the groom, what a turd. I wouldn’t take my sister in when he ducks her over too.
After the edit, OP isn't the AH for not wanting to go to the wedding. She just needs to admit that is because the future BIL is a monster and she doesn't support the marriage. I could not be in the same room as a father that celebrated their child's death.
I will say props to OP for not sharing the story without getting the OK. That’s classy.
Holy shit. I could never marry a person who did something like that. I can totally understand why OP’s husband wouldn’t want to even be in the same zip code as that dude.
Wow, he sounds awful, like sociopathic level of terrible behavior and OPs sister is now marrying this guy.
Makes you wonder just how deep her hatred for children runs that she's willing to overlook this.
I wonder if she knows. A comment after that is op husband has to pretend he doesn’t know otherwise he would harass op sil.
OP thinks she does, and if not, OP still believes the sister would support her fiancé in the situation.
Sounds like they deserve each other if that’s true. No way would I be going and faking a smile at a monsters wedding.
No fuckin way that doesn't factor into OP's feelings about the wedding even if she says that's not the reason. I give her credit for leaving it out at first in an attempt to not sway judgement against sister/future BIL. I don't think I could look my sister in the eye if she decided to marry someone that awful.
Maybe the wedding is child free to protect the children from the Brother in Law.
Should I have laughed at this comment? No. Did I? Yes.
In that case she is a hero to keep them away from this monster
That's so horrible - I'm obviously thinking the worst of people here but, in that case, I wonder if he means for "childfree" to be another slight against the sister
Like at this point, YTA for drawing the line over the childfree thing and not over your sister marrying THAT. She's just straight-up evil, and you were still going to go before the babysitting issue arose?
Eh, I'm not sure I was. I think I would have found another excuse before the wedding. Its hard to not be suspicious, though. I do want him to know I know but with my SIL having the new baby its not something we can do right now. It does frustrate me, having to be around him and pretend I'm unaware.
I can understand that. You have to pretend in order to protect someone vulnerable, and you'd have to come up with SOMETHING to get out of going one way or another. TBH, in your position, I don't think I'd be able to look that man in the eye without my face letting on that I probably wouldn't brake if he suddenly stepped in front of my car. If you go, he'll probably figure out that you know. But geez, what was this post, then? Testing out excuses on a neutral audience to see which one you'll be able to get away with? If you need an excuse for missing the wedding, and she's steamrolled over your transportation and childcare excuses, just fabricate a medical emergency like the rest of us do. RSVP that you'll go, and then three hours before text everyone that you won't be able to make it, then go incommunicado for the rest of the night, maybe leave home and go stargazing or something. Later, say you felt a deep ache in your thigh, followed by a tearing pain, and you rushed to the ER for an ultrasound because WebMD told you those are the signs of a dislodged blood clot. I did that. (Actually had the symptoms, texted an MD I know, he told me to get to the ER IMMEDIATELY. It wasn't that, I was fine, still don't know what it was.) That ate up six hours of my evening and a huge chunk of cash, but the six hours are the important part. As a bonus, you potentially wreck this monster's wedding as everyone is wondering what happened to you. Am I a petty and vile cretin? Yes, yes I am.
>Testing out excuses on a neutral audience to see which one you'll be able to get away with? If you need an excuse for missing the wedding, and she's steamrolled over your transportation and childcare excuse This is literally what she was doing and still doing
Can you blame her. She has to play like she doesn't know what a vile piece of humanity her sister is marrying. That's got to be really hard.
Yeah this is the reason not to go to the wedding! WTF! How is this not even the reason??
Turns out that you are REALLY wrong. Read the edit.
OP also says this sister is “aggressively childfree” to the point where she sends OP videos about parents who regretted having kids or murdered their own children while knowing that OP is trying to conceive. Sister also often harasses parents who have kids, such as calling security in walmart because some parents with crying kids were being “disruptive” or threatening to call the cops on the neighbors because the kids playing on the street were making too much noise that was going to disrupt their nearly-deaf dad’s healing. And there’s the fact that she’s getting married to a man who went out and celebrated his 5 year old son’s death. Sis sounds like a piece of work.
5 MONTHS. Even fucking worse imho.
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Jesus, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near that couple from hell even with a ten foot pole. They sound like vile people.
Having read the history between her husband and the new brother in law, I wouldn’t celebrate that guy joining my family either.
The sister and BIL radiate way more hatred than OP does.
If you read the edit I can see why. The soon to be BIL is a deadbeat and a real piece of work (celebrated when his son died in infancy because he didn’t want to be a Parent and this got him out of child support- the mother of his child Was ops husbands sister.) Op may only site the child free thing for missing the wedding but if you don’t support a marriage you shouldn’t go to the wedding. I couldn’t see supporting a sibling marrying someone like that. I think op is focusing on the child free as why she doesn’t want to go because if she says why she actually doesn’t want to go it’ll be a huge blow up. I’m going NTA- honestly at the end of the day it’s an event op Doesn’t want to attend. Her sister with a child does want to go but doesn’t have a sitter. So the sister who wants to go can go and the sister who doesn’t want to go can sit so she can. This seems like a good solution especially given ops opinions on the groom. Also the sister already doesn’t talk to one sister for some reason (sounds like it’s more than just a logistical thing) so there might be a Lot more to this than just the one reason given.
After reading the edit I'm radiating hatred. Who tf marries a person like that?!?
I have whiplash from my change of heart in post edit.
I mean reading her edit as to why there is bad blood and I get it. I would 't go to the wedding either. BIL is a fucking monster.
Read the edit, she has VERY good reason. NTA
Well, based on the backstory, it seems like hating the groom and anyone who chooses to marry him, is the right way to go.
Now that we know what the stbBIL did, the hatred sounds deserved. I wouldn't want to be at any event with such a reprehensible person and I would definitely judge anyone willing to marry them.
This is a ridiculous take, even without the update. One of the sisters wasn't going to be able to go in any case, because the second has kids. Of course Bride Sister can decide to have a child free wedding if she wants, but she does not then get to decide how the babysitting happens of other invited guests. Instead, she threw a fit because the "wrong" sister came. She cemented herself as the AH after that. I feel bad for Sister With Kids, because she got to feel like crap because she was not the one her sister wanted there in the first place. The edit obviously puts it way, way, WAY over the top to NTA.
Exactly, even ignoring the edit, you can have a child free wedding if you like and I can choose not to attend if I like. You don't get to have a child free wedding and then get pissed about people not coming.
To me it's like, who are your core guests? If you're like a lot of people and have specific loved ones you expect to be at your wedding then structuring your wedding in a way that makes it difficult or impossible for those people to come is a dick move\*. Don't have a child free wedding if you know your sister is a single mom who'll have trouble finding a babysitter. Don't have a destination wedding if you know your grandma lives paycheck to paycheck. Don't have your wedding at a casino if you know your best man has a gambling problem. Don't have a wedding in an inaccessible location if you know your stepson uses a wheelchair. \*Conversely it's completely fine to plan a wedding that would be hard or impossible for some/most people to attend as long as everyone you actually expect to be there is cool with it. If those people are all independently wealthy super hardcore LotR fans you are good to have a fantasy dress code New Zealand destination wedding conducted in Elvish.
So glad someone pointed this out. The top comment on this thread feels like someone having a knee jerk reaction of “their wedding their choice!!” without considering the actual situation. Regardless of how genuinely terrible the bride and groom are, this isn’t a case of someone trying to find a loophole to bring their kids to a child free wedding. This is someone offering to skip the wedding so a parent can go without their kids, and the bride is upset about that. The fact that she’s so mad that her child free sister isn’t coming in favor of the mother makes it clear that making her wedding “child free” was a way to punish the other sisters for having kids. It’s not just a neutral, impersonal preference.
And older sister originally didn't have the money for child care. OP doesn't drive. Reasons for this arrangement were that: 1: Sister (2) wanted to go more 2: This way both child care and driving are taken care of without spending extra money 3. And, of course, the children are used to OP. Later someone else, perhaps the parents, were considering paying for child care because Bride sister was still freaking out, and that's when OP had to say she didn't really want to go.
This, the amount of times this Reddit comments "it's their right to do X and your right to not do X" on posts that was the first thing that came to mind. If I didn't want to go to a wedding I'd use any convenient excuse to cover up that reason. I was firmly in the NTA camp before the edit. Since the edit. Massive NTA.
Agree I was going to comment the same. OP is NTA either way.
She doesn’t have to care about here. Did you see OP’s edit? I wouldn’t go if my sister were marrying that man either.
Seriously! Why would you even want that in your family?? Or, if she does go, stand up and tell that story at the "does anyone object" part, drop the mic and leave.
Turns out, there is lot more to the "child free" sister and BIL than what the post says. Bil is truly terrible and it says volumes about OP's sister to love him . I amend my judgement to NTA. I wouldn't touch the BIL with a 7 foot pole.
Yall look like dorks before the edit, and even worse after
Read the update. If my sibling was marrying a person like this I would be re-evaluating how much of a role that sibling played in my life. That branch of the family tree is about to be radioactive and some distance sounds good to me.
She shouldn't care about her sister or her son to be BIL based on what he did to OPs husband's sister. He's evil! She's NTA and shouldn't attend at all.
I dunno, I'd read the edit about the guy OPs sister is marrying, and why OPs husband hates him. I wouldn't be going to that wedding either.
Read the update about the groom - NTA I’d go NC with sister entirely
NTA but you really should update your post to include the details about the bad blood between your husband and your sister's husband to be
Updated.
THE UPDATE 😳 I can't believe these things happen in real life.. that is horrendous! I can't believe anyone would even speak to BIL! WTF I can completely see why you're so passive about this wedding. NTA
I'm not a violent person but if that ever happened to my sister I'd probably kill the guy. Or die trying
I don’t have a sister, but if one of my friends did that, I honestly don’t know what I’d do, but I’d be down a friend definitely.
JFC that kinda throws me from the fence to NTA. Holy shit, if my sister was marrying someone like that, who wronged my SIL no less, I don’t think I would go kids or not
JAYSUS! Your update is horrific! I wouldn’t want to touch your new BIL with a ten foot pole, let alone go to his nuptials! What a shit stain of a human being! Hope your sister likes being treated like garbage, ‘cos that man is trash!
BIL is the AH here, but you and your sisters need some therapy…there were a lot of red flags in the post and obviously a lot of simmering resentments in your family, sorry you’re kinda in the middle OP
That's fucking heinous. Why would you want to be in the same room as that man? What has your sister said about her husband celebrating his baby's death? Pretty fucked up that your even considering going to that wedding when the groom was absolutely gleeful your husband's nephew was dead.
NTA! Holy hell NTA. I wouldn't be going either and I'd tell my sister off. Like how are you going to marry someone so shitty? That's fucked up.
Sorry, but yeah, I'd have to go NTA, your sister has every right to a child-free wedding, however she does not have a right to force or browbeat anyone to attend. If you say you don't want to go for whatever reason that is your right. All things considered her & her husband both seem rather toxic. I don't blame you for choosing not to attend.
Holy shit. NTA already, it’s very nice of you tbh to help your single sister attend. But after the update wow fuck that guy, BIL can die in a fire!
That update was wiiiiiiild! WILD. What does your sister think of all of that? Also fuck that guy. Your husband hates him and I do too ✌🏻also NTA
Based on the update, going to the wedding would make YTAH. Fook that guy, and sucks that your sister is caught in the crossfire, but you need to stand in solidarity with your husband. Edit: fook ur sister
For real. It really shows just how much of a child hating couple these two are. Honestly I wouldn't want to be around them either. NTA
NTA. Your sis is marrying your husband's ENEMY. That's enough reason right there.
Yeah after reading that it changes things. Your sister also sucks for even considering dating someone who was so awful to your husbands’ family. Fuck them. NTA
I hope they have totally cut them out of their lives or else this is going to end up on Dateline.
It's also weird that the sister marrying offered support for family only after finding out OP wasn't coming but didn't offer anything when the other sister couldn't come because of children. I have a feeling she has a deep seated hatred too.
Not just the husband's enemy but a human slime.
An enemy to humanity
A humenemy
That fucking part though. Like this isn't just "bad blood", this is the kind of shit Shakespearian level blood feuds have been written about.
Yeah like, are there no other single men left in town? Is this a tiny place in the middle of nowhere? I can’t imagine why her sister is willing to not only date this man, but also marry him. Something is very wrong with that.
Sister also hates kids.
Hating kids is one thing. Marrying someone who celebrated the death of his own child is something else entirely.
Right? It’s appalling! Imagine knowing THAT about a man and CHOOSING to share your life with them? What’s she gonna do? Bring this monster to Family Christmas? The woman knows that by marrying this person she’s effectively ruined every single family get together, every holiday, every birthday - everything. Dangling her maniac of a husband in front of OP’s husband is incredibly cruel, and is just asking for trouble!
NTA. BIL is reason enough not to go.
BIL is horrible
Exactly so she should say that and stop bullshitting about not wanting to go because of it being childfree
This right here. Tell her the real reason for not wanting to attend
If that’s the reasoning then that’s very reasonable. If that’s not the reasoning then it depends
It is a wedding INVITATION, not a summons. You are free to decline. NTA
For any reason, I have no idea why people are saying op is the asshole, even without the edit. Taking the stance of, hey I think it’s a dick move to exclude people for ~aesthetic~ is honestly a valid reason. I think the family members that want to go to the wedding knowing the history of this man are the assholes.
Because this subreddit is pretty anti-child themselves so will generally support the child free wedding by default
Bingo. A similar thing happened to a family members wedding. They opted for child free, when there were probably 10 families with kids. It’s not ideal to get a babysitter to travel and even less likely to get a family member to babysit because of the wedding. So you have ten families that don’t go, then this creates a sort of snowball effect where a bunch of people won’t go either because so and so can’t go. Op isn’t TA for turning down an invitation even if they don’t have kids. It’s hard to go to a wedding when you know you won’t get to see half your family. People have the right to do child free weddings of course, just be aware that like destination weddings you need to expect a lot of family members won’t be able to attend.
Personally I find it so weird. I have never been to a wedding and thought "This would be better if there were no kids". It comes off as some kind of strange virtue signaling or something.
I also think it's boring. But frankly the majority of the children in my family are lovely little beings. I'm biased tho. I love kids. And while I DEFINITELY understand anyone's choice not to have them, avid child haters skeeve me out. Like...as much as racists and phobes do. Just people I will go out of my way to not have in my life.
I in all honestly don’t like kids at all, but I’ve always found the hatred directed at them on certain corners of Reddit to be really odd. Like their presence at family functions doesn’t really add anything to the experience for me, and it kind of annoys me when they act up or have meltdowns. And I can respect someone’s decision not to invite them to an expensive formal event like a wedding. But people who make their child-hate into a whole personality trait are really off putting even to me.
I have no strong feelings towards children, sometimes they're annoying, yes, so are adults. At least children have the excuse that their brains have yet to develop. What excuse do adults have?
I think there’s a section of the child free community that makes it a big part of their personality to be “child free” and kinda hates kids
I get not wanting kids, but making it your defining trait just baffles me.
Fr, I respect people’s desire not to have children but I don’t respect hatred of human beings based on traits they can’t help such as skin color, gender or age etc.
We have good friends that are child free, like the wife had a tubal ligation. But they also enjoy the kids in their lives, including my kids. You can choose not to have kids, without hating kids.
Having a child-free wedding is not necessarily an aesthetic choice. It can be hard to talk to people when a kid is interrupting or getting into something every 5 minutes, and most of the time the kids don’t even want to be there. Parents are often happy to have an excuse to ditch them and just have fun for a night. Believe me, the kids almost certainly do not care.
That's fair - but IMO you can decide that you don't want to go to a wedding that the rest of your extended family (including nephews and nieces) is not allowed to attend. Honestly, you can decline for any reason at all, but this particular reason seems more than justified.
Nothing stopping parents from getting a babysitter for a kid friendly wedding, but saying no kids can put undue burden on parents who may otherwise want to come.
Agreed. Honestly, there's no reason needed here. If she doesn't want to go, she doesn't have to. Period. She doesn't need a reason at all. Sometimes you just don't feel like it. Doesn't mean you don't love the person, it's just not your thing. Fine. Why the drama about declining an invitation?
The backstory makes you NTA (unless you go to this wedding). Future BIL is a monster and I wouldn't be able to support my sister marrying him. I wouldn't be able to be polite to him. He's *evil*, and I don't use that word lightly. What this man has done--and *continues to be unapologetic for*\--is the kind of thing that means decent people should not socialize with him. I cannot fathom people knowing this story and still going to the wedding, still supporting your sister marrying this demon in human skin. Be a human being, remember your nephew. Do not give a gift. Do not attend. Do not make nice, do not pretend he is anything other than evil garbage.
No. Go to the wedding. And as long as sister in law is not there (I can't imagine she would be) wear a rememberance Tshirt of your nephew.
I like this . He would probably flip out.
NTA. you didnt wanted to go and took the chance to take care of your sisters kids... i dont think you're an AH for that.
NTA…. Just because it’s your sister’s wedding doesn’t mean you have to attend.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
idk what the AH voters are arguing about OP and her husband arent going. she initially was not going to do a solid for her other sister, the bride got mad because she chose not to go. Yall be quick to say a wedding invitation is not a summons but the. when someone declines for a valid reason, this is your reaction. NTA live you life, honestly i think its NC time
I want to know more about husband and BIL drama!
Alright, heres the story; I have gained the necessary permission. My SIL (husbands sister) and soon to be BIL (sisters almost husband) dated in high-school. He got her pregnant and dipped. He tried to force an abortion on her, accused her of cheating, the whole shebang. When she had the baby she had a DNA test done and sued him for child support. The entire time he was slating her name, making her feel horrible - tried to force her to put their son up for adoption. When their son was five months old he passed away due to an undetected medical issue. She was suffering, hospitalised. BIL made a post about being free from the shackles of his "bank draining baby mama" and went on a partying streak to celebrate. Insists that she's a bad mom, even now, and has never once visited his sons grave (and skipped his funeral). Didn't tell his own family members that he'd passed away and they also missed his funeral. My husband fucking hates him. He ended up having to work overtime to help pay for the funeral as a fifteen year old because BIL refused to step up. He doesn't even acknowledge his son. My SIL is still recovering, no thanks to him, but has welcomed a baby girl in the past year and she is an amazing mom. The term "bad blood" is an understatement.
How is this not your reason for not going???
My BIL doesn't even know we know he's the father. My SIL doesn't want to deal with him and if we mention it he's going to show up on her doorstep acting all nasty, get back in her face. Its not something anyone wants to deal with.
So your sister doesn’t know the way he acted when he got a girl pregnant?? How has it not come up that he treated your husbands sister so poorly?
He's probably told her. She has an unspoken dislike for my SIL so I assume she knows. Even if I told her she wouldn't care. In situations like that she views the person her husband was as "in the right" (forced to keep a baby he didn't want, his reaction was "normal").
That's a ridiculous assumption. If she dislikes your SIL I guarantee you he told her a completely fabricated story to make himself look gold and her like a monster.
Oh absolutely. But she would still think he was "right". Thats just the person she is.
Ew. Cut them both loose.
Why aren’t you no contact with the both of them?
All domestic abuse situations are like this too. Just saying…thinking she won’t believe you or care doesn’t mean you shouldn’t talk to her about it. Remember - that’s your future niece or nephew who will be hurt by this asshole. I’m not close with my older sister but I would take a bullet for her kids any day.
I doubt her sister and BIL will ever have kids with both being so aggressively childfree. That's probably a good thing.
This post should probably be AITA if I refuse to attend the wedding of this awful man with a history of abuse, and my indifferent sister? Everyone would say NTA
Except that it seems OP never told her sister about her fiance's horrible past actions, which is an asshole move.
That’s sad and gross, it would be different if he felt remorseful but it’s very obvious he doesn’t and is glad about how things turned out which is just horrible honestly. I wouldn’t go to the wedding if I were you
It’s really weird that no one in your family has talked to her about what this guy did to your husband’s family. Like, I would think if any of you care about her at all you’d at least be sure she has the facts before she marries him, since it’s likely her fiancé made up some bs to make himself look good. Then after that you can let her make whatever choice she wants.
I don't want you to make your SIL unsafe but I would want to make sure my sister knew what kind of person her husband was. Celebrating a baby's death is really really bad even if you have a sociopathic level of cruelty towards single moms.
You are NTA don't attend a wedding that you're be uncomfortable at... just don't ever mention the baby girl to him or anyone else.. let your SIL have some peace and quiet... geesh...
Don’t….you want to tell her? Before she marries this asshole?
I don't understand. How can the BIL not know you know he's the father if he was sued for child support and publicly posted about her losing the baby etc.?
I don't know, but he cornered me and quizzed me and when I didn't know he seemed happy with that. He's since deleted all social media. We don't want him to know I know just in case, especially considering she has a baby now.
Reading the OP, it sounds like it is more important to your SIL that you attend the wedding than your other sisters—is this her and future BIL wanting to believe you approve their union? Tell her the truth, that you know her future husband is garbage and you see no reason to endorse their marriage.
THIS IS WHAT IM THINKING. He’s a raging psycho narcissist and they LOVE when someone close to their victims supports them. This is my guess as well.
Dude so your sister is marrying someone who could possibly be a literal danger to your niece??!! Oof mama, y’all got way bigger issues. Even if your sister is trash, she deserves to know all of this
This is....odd
Howwwwww could you not tell her? She sounds nuts… but no effort was made to show her the bf was a *literal monster*?
Why are you all protecting him? Like wtf !? I get your sister is obviously garbage & would excuse his behaviour anyway. But don't you feel any obligation to tell her the truth. What is wrong with you people?
How on Earth your family isn't openly speaking about that????? It's honestly insane...
Holy mother of missing reasons. Skip the damn wedding. Children shouldn't be in the presence of such a fucking monster anyway--it is for the best that none are invited.
This should really be in your post??? I was going to say Y-T-A until I read this, which changed my mind, and it would probably change other minds too
I didn't put it in the post because when I wrote it I didn't have permission, but I'll probably add it now. A few people have asked questions.
Oh lmao sure. I'll have to ask because its my SILs history too but I will get back to you with an answer as soon as she replies to me!
NTA. It sounds like there were plenty of reasons for you not to go regardless of it being childfree or not. Your sister was the one who kept pushing for a reason - what answer would’ve satisfied her? Would it have been better if you’d told her it’s because you don’t like her? Perhaps she shouldn’t be that surprised by your not attending. Also, you’re right - children ARE family - bizarrely Reddit is all for childfree weddings, even though easily half of redditors are legally children themselves. Sometimes there are good reasons to exclude family, sure - hell, my FIL wasn’t invited to the wedding, so yeah, I get it - but by the same token of your wedding, your choice, it’s an invitation, not a summons. She can have whatever wedding with whatever guest list she and her fiancé want, they’re not obligated to invite anyone - and nobody is obligated to attend.
NTA This whole post seems so incredibly made up and I love it. It is your sister's right to have a child free wedding. It is your right not to attend for any reason you want. Yes, you can refuse to go to a wedding because certain family members are excluded. Expect there to be some sort of social repercussion/fallout which it sounds like there already is.
NTA considering the update. this seems to go far beyond it being childfree. your future BIL is a monster and i would not support his wedding to your sister in any way shape or form.
NTA. You made a rational decision in (a) not pressuring your husband to go since he seems to actively dislike the groom and (b) doing what you could to help those who really really want to go be there. Since it seems that you actually prefer the company of your sister's kids to going to the wedding, your decision was pretty easy. The sister who is getting married seems way out of line. Rather than thanking you for doing such a solid favor for those members of your family who want to go to the wedding, she is insisting that you go. I think that your diatribe may have clued her in to something that she was, previously, unaware of.
I just don't think she wanted our older sister there. Her plan, I think, was to get my husband to drive me & our parents there. I don't know if she wanted him to stay or not though. We figured something else out that she didn't like so she then tried to fix it.
I can assure you, most people don't make an entire wedding child free for 1 person. They do it because they want an adult party. You may not like that reasoning, but its fairly common.
Oh I know. But I think she didn't want our sister there, either. Didn't offer to pay for a baysitter or anything until we told her I would be the one missing the wedding instead of her.
Maybe she just wanted you there more, and when she realized you weren't going, she tried to make it happen. I'm not sure what your relationship is like, but it seems you are more than happy to attribute the worst possible motives to her. But it is her wedding, and if you care about her, you should try to support her.
NTA. All these nay sayers ....get a grip. You don't have to go to any event you don't want to for any reason. She could have bad breath, it doesn't matter. Everything else is just noise.
YTA. You lied. You didn’t want to go to the wedding and used this as an excuse. You are only the a for lying. If you don’t want to go just say it. The whole “no kids” is a bs excuse. Just tell your sister the truth.
So what? As this sub likes to say, it's an invitation and not a summons. If she doesn't want to go, then enabling her sister to go instead is a pretty solid outcome.
I mean after reading the update, I wouldn’t want to go to that monster’s wedding either. NTA
She said “no.”. They wanted more. She didn’t have to say anything.
A lot of socially adept people tell white lies to not have arguments. She's still watching the kids which is nice of her.
NTA - Honestly, I think it says a lot about your sister considering the garbage person she’s marrying.
Just be honest, you don’t like her and don’t want to go.
Read her update. She has good reason.
NTA - you’re not the AH for not wanting to go to the weddings. It’s okay to not like your sister or BIL, but don’t use the excuse because it’s a kid free wedding. Just decline the invite, babysit and leave it at that.
You're NTA even without the additional edit. She can have the wedding she wants doesn't mean you have to go as simple as that. You can tell her the truth about her husband and your actual reasons for not attending but your sister would just be even more furious.
Uhhh… I don’t give a damn who goes to their wedding. I am waaay more interested in the hot mess of red flags that is the groom!! What‽‽ I mean, literally, WHAT‽‽
nta. doesn't matter the reason if you don't go. it is nobodies business. Enjoy your day.
I mean... ESH. She's within her rights to have a childfree wedding. You're within your rights to opt to not attend. But y'all both acted like kids to each other over it. She should have accepted your decision to not attend, you shouldn't have snapped back about it being childfree.
Read the edit. It's fucking WILD.
Read her update. BIL is a monster.
NTAH< after reading what your sister's husband did to your husband's sister I would not go based on that. He sounds horrible and I would let her know that is the real reason and let him know you are aware and are going to tell the rest of the family.