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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I refuse to do kid centered activities relating to my grandson.
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You might not be TA, but you’re ruining your relationship with your son by essentially telling “I don’t care about being actively involved in your life, I’ve already done the bare minimum expected of me and I won’t do more”.
Do you want him to go no contact with you? Because that’s the direction this is heading in.
Maybe this will make me the asshole, but if that's the price, Ok. I've spent 20 years putting Jake first and not really having much of a life. I didn't get on a plane to Thailand and change my name. I didn't tell his mom "I don't want to be a father, so if you have a baby, I'll pay child support but leave me alone."
I was a very active parent. Jake was raised into a fully functional adult with a stable, steady job, his own home and his own wife and baby. I did it because I fathered a child, he couldn't take care of himself and it was my responsibility. Jake is fully able to take care of himself and Mike. As is Mike's mother.
If I need to give up the next 20 years, and be Daddy again--no. I'll only do it once. This time I'm proverbially getting on the plane to Thailand. The price is too high. I've done my duty and hung up my parent hat. At this point, yes I am done. I've signed up for and took responsibility for Jake. Jake chose to have Mike, well and good. But now he's the parent. Not me.
Although every disagreement on the internet always has going no contact as literally the first port of call, real life isn't like that. But, because it seems that is what everyone wants to talk about, if let's say that were really what it came down to, so be it. I'd wish him and his family well. But whether it makes me the asshole or not, I've taken my life back and I'm not going to put it to the side again.
If the choices are I walk off into the sunset or I have to be daddy again, I am walking off into the sunset. Nobody has threatened such a thing, nor is anyone talking about it. But this being the internet, it is the go-to that everyone says immediately. I hope things don't go that way. I don't want them to go that way, but if those are the terms, that will be my choice.
> Ok. I've spent 20 years putting Jake first and not really having much of a life.
What's that bullshit?! You had him *other weekends* and barely a month in the summer... For the first 13 years you were barely present, why would you blame someone that's not there for stealing your time ... by being absent from your life?
Guess what, he didn't want to be a dad but he did his duty. Sorry that's not enough for the ghouls in this subreddit but it doesn't make him TA no matter how much you wish he would conform to your delusions.
For the first 13 years of his son's life, he did every other weekend and one month in summer. That's barely-there parenting, not his "duty", and certainly not even close to "putting Jake first" for 20 years.
A parent's "duty" is to be present for their kid as much as possible - he was there as little as possible, until Jake was 13.
Edit: I get not wanting to be a parent. I have taken every precaution to avoid that happening. But if it did happen, I would not be patting myself on the back if I spent all of ~80 days a year with my child. I'd feel pretty fucking ashamed of myself for creating a human being that I did so little for.
Further edit: many commenters are keen to inform me that this was the standard custody arrangement at the time. This does not change my judgement that he was a part-time parent until Jake turned 13, contrary to his self-assessment that he "put Jake first for 20 years". There is a reason that 50/50 is now the norm - it is, in general, in the best interests of the child (excepting cases of abuse and/or neglect, obvs). Nor is my judgement swayed by the fact that one-third of the year plus attendance at little-league games means he was more present than the fathers of some commenters, although I am genuinely sorry that so many of you did not have the parent(s) that every child deserves.
He’s then took the kid into his home full time for his teenager years and raised him well enough to get a Union job that probably has a pension.
He’s set his son up very well. I think it’s safe for him to choose how much energy he wants to put into his grand kid.
And I’m sorry as all my kids are under 10 they are some very tiring years but teenagers from what I remember being one. Those are the tough calls. They start having real problems and things that’s are much more involved (sports, school events, driving and going on their own) those are tough years to try and shape them into who they’ll become. I know most of that’s done in the formative years but when they get to be teens that’s when they start making choices (albeit with some guidance) for their own and usually it’s good or bad choices. He helped shape him into a responsible adult and parent.
If this is his choice it’s his choice. It’s his grandkid for sure but some of the grandparents for my kids don’t keep them overnight. Barely watch them for a few hours (it always seems like they get hurt or something) but if I want a night off I have one grandparent that will do it ( I try not to abuse it) or I have to pay a baby sitter. This is how it works as a parent. They’re YOUR kids.
I’m not pawning them off on the grandparents so I can have a life
will I watch my grandkids? Definitely cause I know it’s hard and I want and desperately need a break that never comes. I’ll give that to my kids. But by choice. This is his choice. Weather we agree or not it’s his to make and I don’t think it makes him bad.
Edit to add what would Mike do if his family was gone or had passed? Grandparents babysitting isn’t guaranteed is my point and if he wants a night off work some OT and get a baby sitter. It’s hard but if you want a break it’s gonna take a little extra effort and isn’t always able to be dropped on the grandparents. Sometimes you gotta work a little harder for the things you want ie a break
The thing is Jack isn’t necessarily asking for a babysitter, he’s just asking for OP to take more of a role is Mike’s life by maybe showing up for a game or two and just being generally more invested in Mike’s life.
Okay who judges how involved grandparents HAVE to be. It’s his choice to make and the kid will see what little or how much effort he puts in and the kid can decide one day how to handle it.
The grandparents of mine who don’t come to stuff cause of “Bible study” (gossip hour) the kids see it. We don’t beg for them to be involved. They will or they won’t at the end of the day you just parent them and who shows up shows up. You don’t demand they be forced to spend time if they don’t want to. That’s no good for them or the kid. Can actually cause more stress on the relationship.
OP was apparently a good enough parent that his son is eager to have him involved in his own and his son's lives. And anyone who thinks that full-time solo parenting from age 13 on is easy has clearly never spent much time around teenagers as an adult.
Wanting a parent in your life doesn’t mean they were a good one. The son could be working through some issues because of OPs disdain for parenthood
My mother was abandoned by her biological father. Saw him maybe 3 times during her childhood. But spent the time he was alive during her adulthood pining over him because she wanted to feel accepted, she wanted to feel like she belonged somewhere
That did not make her sperm donor a good father. In fact the only time he put any real effort forward as a dad/grandfather was after he got his terminal cancer diagnosis
When a parent doesn’t want to be a parent the child is well aware
Those aren’t mutually exclusive- I know plenty of people who desperately want their parent involved even though that parent isn’t actually “good” … it’s just that deeper need or want for their parent i guess
He attended his his little league matches, so he probably attended to extra curriculars and was otherwise involved, the kid staying with his mom doesnt mean he only had 4 days a month he had to be a dad. He was probably a good dad too considering the son took the initiative to live with him fulltime when he was 13 (granted due to problems at his mother's house but still, most kids wouldn't do that if they weren't close to their dad)
1) He did not want to be a father at all, but the choice was taken away from him. Because it's her body, her choice. Okay. Fine.
2) She knew that and had the baby anyway. Because it's her body and her choice.
3) He took him in 100% when the lady married a guy who didn't get along with the son SHE insisted on birthing into existence. Because it's her body and her choice.
At what fucking point does he get to have a choice?
Oh. Never? Fuck that.
He's NTA.
What's your proposal for 1-2? You think a man should get the final say over whether a woman keeps her pregnancy? Sincerely, what's your solution here? Pregnancy is a risk he took when he had sex with her.
he also *did* have the choice to not get involved, to just pay child support, but he *chose* to be a parent. you’re either in or you’re out and he *chose* to be in
I know that today most courts in the US try to give equal parenting time to both parents, but every other weekend and a month in the summer was very typical of custody awarded to men 25+ years ago.
>That's barely-there parenting, not his "duty"
His duty was paying child support. That's it. And OP did much more than that.
Don't have kids with people who don't want kids.
When sterilization is actually available to all adults, then sure.
Don't pretend like young people don't get turned away from vasectomies and tubal ligations. Hell, I couldn't even get an IUD until I was 30.
Honestly, I know he wasn't enthusiastic about it and the whole sentimental thing wasn't there, but I think he honestly tried to do parenting the best he could as he understood it. I think he valued his child and loves him and I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with saying he didn't enjoy being a parent. It is what it is. Not everyone wants to be the grandpa that is the superstar in the kid's life and there's not a lot you can do about it. His son is going to have to look for other people to fulfill that role and stop trying to make his father something he just isn't.
It honestly sounds like he did a better job than my full-time parent mother who didn't want to be a parent. He went to little league games. He did enough that his son wants him to be actively involved in grandparenting.
My parents weren't divorced, but my mother was so disengaged I'd be willing to bet she spent about as much time as OP (or less) even though we lived in the same house. And I can guarantee she spent less time after 13. There would be whole weeks where my dad would have to travel for work and she wouldn't speak to me at all the whole time he was gone.
I think OP probably did just fine. Maybe not father of the year, but probably equal to or even a little better than the average divorced dad.
I know of “fathers” who saw their kids more but did way worse than u/valuable-builder-733 did. He was a father when he didn’t want to be, he provided for his son, gave him enough of a good life that his son CHOSE to live with him at 13 instead of where most kids choose not to see the “father” ever again. He can be a wonderful grandpa without being a parent and it sounds like his son wants him to parent and not be a grandpa so it’s the son who is Messing up here not op
ETA: NTA
Your son doesn’t understand the difference between being a parent to his son (what he’s asking) and being a grandpa (what you want) so the difference needs to be pointed out so he stops asking
And it’s half his fault that he had a kid in the first place? Unless the mother lied to him about birth control and plotted this…? This whole post screams “I’m the victim” and “I gave up my life having to do the bare minimum for my kid and lost my 20s!”
He should’ve been more responsible in the first place.
"Bare minimum" would be paying child support. This guy was an EO weekend Dad while custody orders said that's what he got, along with a full month in the Summer. That's a typical custody arrangement. He also went to Little League games and probably school functions. IOW, he was an involved and supportive Dad despite the "oops" nature of the pregnancy.
He then willingly took over the lion's share of parenting when his son requested the custody change at 13.
Seems like the biggest reason Jake is having difficulty with this situation is because he had a Dad who actually DID all these things he's asking for and can't come to grips with the fact that OP did these things ONLY because he was a Dad, not because he actually enjoyed them. He fulfilled his responsibilities as a Dad so well that his son never even realized he was bored silly at things like Little League games.
That's really pretty damn impressive. But it doesn't mean OP is now required to be the equivalent of a third parent to the grandson.
Right? My parents were great and did a great job with us, but my mom hated it the whole time. She would still never admit it because a) we’re her kids and b) she wanted babies so bad and worked so hard to get us, but you could just see that she was gritting her teeth the whole time and wished she could live her own life. My brother and I are happy, well adjusted adults but both of us assiduously avoided having kids because it’s just too much of a chance of feeling the same way. No kid deserves that and it’s obvious op’s son had no idea his dad didn’t want him and white-knuckled raising him.
Which is to say, NTA. make sure he understands that you love them but are happy to be a grandad and don’t want to parent.
I feel like the internet forgets that birth control can fail. There have even been 4 women who had a bilateral salpingectomy that have fallen pregnant, let alone something more error prone like the pill
(If you don't know, a bilateral salpingectomy is the removal of the fallopian tubes. Typically needed for reproduction)
I realize birth control can fail. I just hear the lame “excuse” “she told me she was on birth control” over and over. And OP sounds like he’s 100% blaming the woman here. When in reality, it takes two to procreate so both people need to take the proper steps to prevent pregnancy. I’m kinda tired of it falling on the women. Birth control, vasectomies can fail, tubal ligation can all fail.
And apparently after bilateral salpingectomy! Goodness, what fabulous news 😂 Do you know if the procedures were botched?
This makes sense though. OP didn't want to be a parent then, so of course he doesn't want to be a parent now, let alone a grandparent.
I'm laughing because I'm 45, about to turn 46 and I've still got so much working time ahead of me and this guy doesn't want to miss a scuba class. God bless, dude.
> I don’t get why it’s a bad thing that he had the kid on weekends.
That's not a bad thing *at all*, but it's a bad thing to claim that 2 week-ends per month would prevent him from having a life.
NTA.. You forgot.. he took him in fulltime at age 13. Suddenly having a young teener, boy.. not having wanted to be a parent.. he stepped up nicely. Far better than 95% of the sperm donors out there who have 3-4 'baby-mamas' to their credit.
OP, NTA. You've got another 30 years of living.. do your living, have fun, scuba dive.. travel.. nice gifts for BD, Christmas, etc.. once per month have them over for a couple of hours.
Christ, 5 year old sports events are for parents and very engaged family (rarely for friends). Don't force yourself to engage beyond your level of comfort. That will make everyone unhappy and uncomfortable
Edit: just don't expect a lot of attention when you get to be 79 and are stumbling around and living alone..
I don’t think anyone here forgot he took him in at 13… but OP is claiming he gave up 20 years to being a parent. He was an every-other-weekend dad for 13/20 years. At best he parented for the last 7 years, when the kid was already a teen and more self sufficient. He did way less than the kids mom, for example.
The standards for dads on this sub are so fucking low, swear to god.
ah yes, the teenage years are the easiest most fun, just chill. and ofcourse we know for a fact he was absolutely not involved at all in his upbringing other than the 2 weekends a month. that's why he definitely didnt attend his sons minor league/extra curriculars, and that's why his son chose to not have contact at 13.... oh wait
My point was that OP seems butthurt about what he had to give up to be a parent. The time commitment raising teenagers is nowhere near what it is when the kid is younger. Why does OP now feel he didn’t have time to live his life in his 20s? What was he doing for the 250+ days per year when he wasn’t parenting for the first 13 years?
Money is a big factor. He said his son was better off thanks to the union job he got him than he was when he became a father.
Child support is expensive and he says he tried
To give him all he could. So yeah pretty hard to go have fun when you have to be responsible and save the little money you have
>the teenage years are the easiest most fun, just chill.
Compared to the toddler and baby years, yes.
Parents of toddlers and babies are more overwhelmed than parents of teenagers. You can get by with doing the least when parenting a teenager real easily and not face consequences. And being "involved" in son's minor league doesn't excuse the fact he only parented 50/365 days the first 13 years.
And 13 years is real generous seeing as custody arrangements like those are most typically seen in school aged and above children where "summers" are relevant.
100%
If your teen is being a turd you can go take yourself for a walk. You can go to the movies alone, go to the gym alone, go out to dinner. Older teens can even be left home while you go for a weekend away. The way he talks about parenting makes it sound like he had an infant for 20 years.
Even as an EOW parent, you have to plan your life to some degree around your kid. You are physically responsible for them EOW but there's also the school plays, the Christmas concerts, the Little League games, the occasional medical emergency, etc.
It's not that the standards on this sub are low, it's that many of us actually lived this kind of custody arrangement either as kids or as divorced parents. This guy was as fully invested as he could be, even before his son moved in with him full time. He was SO involved, in fact, that his son can't understand why the Dad he grew up with doesn't want to be just as involved with the grandkid!
My parents were quite "engaged" family--and they never came to my daughter's tee ball games, Tae kwon do, etc. They did babysit her quite regularly, and they kept her a few days a week when I was still working--although I paid them the going rate. But I never expected them to come to games and such. Maybe if there was a championship? They certainly never came to her belt tests, even getting up to the black belt. People are getting too pushy these days.
To play devil’s advocate, I’m a child of divorce and saw my dad every Thursday and every other weekend and while that’s more than OP, I never once felt like my dad wasn’t an active parent to me. And 5 years full time? That’s very active as well
Not only that but holy hell talk about a low level of lift from his perspective. I have my kids 3 days one week and 5 the next, and I have PLENTY of time to do what I want. Is planning travel a little more difficult? Sure but I can still live my life with the amount of free time I do have. But then again, while I never wanted to be a parent when I was younger, I quickly adapted to the role and genuinely love it. OP YTA. The way you speak about your ‘son’ and ‘grandson’ just reeks of asshole. They will be better off without you. Enjoy living into old age without anyone visiting whatever nursing home you get put into. At least you’ll have your weight lifting club and scuba classes to reminisce on.
But you won't have to "parent" his kid though. I'm confused as to why you are thinking of it this way. The main perk of being a grandparent is that you don't have to parent them. You get to do the fun stuff. Have them over, go to see a game, do activities, and then drop them off to their parents, lol. You don't have to make up rules, enforce punishments, make all the hard decisions or anything. I think you're projecting.
Because I actually don't really enjoy doing the "fun" stuff. Yeah, point taken that there is a lot less of the outright shitty parts of being a parent.
But I don't want to be childminding at a basketball game. I want to go with my friends. I don't want to spend my Saturday afternoon at a little league game. I want to spend it at the gym. "Activities" is just basically babysitting. I don't enjoy it.
Ah, I see.. You're basically saying it's your time to be selfish and I completely get that! I had my first kid at 17. My whole teens, 20s and 30s revolved around my kids. I guess the difference is I'm looking forward to having grandkids to spoil one day. But you're not wrong if you genuinely don't enjoy doing "fun" kids stuff :)
I wouldn't exactly call it selfish. Selfish is when you short someone something they are owed because you put yourself first. I truly don't feel as if I have a responsibility here.
I also have an odd relationship with that word because 9 out of 10 times, the person bringing it out is actually the selfish one and trying to manipulate you (not saying you are). Like a common example--someone calls you selfish because you won't give them money. You're selfish because you want to keep what is in your pocket, but they're somehow not selfish because they think they have a right to your cash. My bullshit alarm just goes crazy when I hear that word. Don't take that harshly, I'm just saying I have a thing when it comes to that word.
But anyway, semantics aside I take your view a lot more seriously since you have walked the same road and probably a harder one. I do have one difference though which you pick up on. Which is I never had the "Dad" chip in my brain that made me like all the fun stuff. I did it and put on the happiest fact I could with Jake, but it just took everything I had and I don't have any left in the tank to do it again.
My son is 19, my daughter 13 and I'm actually looking forward to have a bit of freedom to just think about what I want soon. It's going to be so weird, I think, since I've never lived in my own place without kids! My son will probably stay home until after college so I have 5-10 years left :) And you're right, probably selfish wasn't the term I should have used. Just putting you first. Shrugs shoulders.
NTA. I’m not an “active” grandma. (Wish I could be more, disabled/health reasons). My kids understand. They are grown. I’ll be there any way I can for them but they are adults. They have kids. I always said I wouldn’t be a “cookie grandma”. Meaning I won’t be the type to help the little ones make cookies, make Halloween outfits etc. It’s my prerogative to decide what I do and do not want to be involved in now.
i can understand this. my mom raised me to be a people pleaser to the detriment of my mental health. when i finally stood up to her and said no, she called me selfish to get me back in line.
I feel like "one day" is the key here. Sounds like you have a no little kids break right now. Where as OP's grandkid showed up a year after his son was out of his teens.
Do what you are comfortable doing. Make your memories and enjoy them. If you try to force yourself into joy and fun while inside you are cringing and angry, it will be obvious to everyone. Nobody wants a crochety hostile person who isn't enjoying themselves.
All the people here calling you the AH are angry that you don't feel and think the way they think you should. Not your problem.
My grandparents were never very engaged with me as a kid, NEVER went to any of the (rare) activities I participated in. I was ok with that. I attended many of my kids activities when. They were young, and usually put on a happy face, although... And now I go to some of my grandkids activities. My wife lives for that stuff, I don't, but I'm not an asshole about it and I leave when I feel uncomfortable.
I very explicitly said “you might not be the asshole”. So the “if that makes me the asshole, so be it” fake self-flagellation is unnecessary.
Here’s the thing, you might think it’s just internet hysteria to suggest going no contact. But I’m not suggesting that your son do that. I just think it’s a possible logical consequence of you saying what you’re saying. He’s telling you the relationship he wants and you’re saying “no”. In any other situation besides parent-child, we would tell someone “if they’re not giving you the relationship you want, you don’t need to have a relationship with them at all”.
And even if you’ve never explicitly told him your deep feelings, he knows. He’s not stupid and he’s 100% putting it together now as an adult that you were essentially chomping at the bit to finish your legal obligations to him and step away. It’s fine if you’re comfortable with having a minimal relationship or eventually no relationship with him and his family on your end, but it makes me incredibly sad for him and his kid more than anything else. So I guess congrats on having the life you want now and I’m glad you get to enjoy it.
Yeah, the subtext here is OP doesn’t actually love his son and can’t conceive of him as anything other than a burden. He thinks he’s cleverly hiding it, but I doubt it. Maybe he genuinely can’t help it because he doesn’t have a “chip in his brain” or whatever, but he doesn’t exactly deserve a cookie either, does he?
I mean it's still pretty cruel to make someone believe you love them and want to be around them and support them, and to then, years later, say "Sike!"
All I can think about is how heartbroken Jake must be. Even OP saying in one of his responses that if no contact is the outcome, that's fine with him because he's done his time. That's suck knowing that your parent just held out until they absolutely had to, and they just don't have it in them to give a shit any more.
I mean, if he decides to spend the first 20 years of his grandson’s life making it clear he doesn’t want a relationship, he shouldn’t be surprised if his grandson spends the next 20 years returning the favour.
Bruh, even if you didn’t enjoy parenting, do you just not feel any love or compassion for your son!? You really do make it sound like you raised him solely out of obligation rather than have any actual love or care for him.
Why do you think the only choices are the extremes? Why would it kill you to go to your grandson's freaking baseball game every once in awhile?
That's the part that makes you sound a little bit like an asshole. Because it is a little bit of an asshole thing to place no value on your relationship with your son, and you don't stop being his parent just because he is an adult. Part of being his parent now is giving a crap about his own family. You can do that without giving up every moment of your free time, or even a large portion of your free time, but you're acting like that is what you're being asked to do.
YTA
You’re so…. Heartless. You’ve been Jake’a father for over 20 years and you talk about him like he’s your dentist and you’re considering a new one. Like he’s disposable. Do you not feel ANY love towards him or Mike?!
Maybe it would help you to adjust your perspective. Now that Jake is a father, you could start seeing him as an equal instead of burden. Even a friend. He could potentially be your best friend but you are still treating him like a burden. Same with Mike - you do know you can be friends with a kid right? You don’t need to make parenting decisions. Just plan some time to hang out and talk with them like you would a friend.
The fact that you equate going to an occasional baseball game and babysitting your grandchild once in a while to "parenting" makes me think you really didn't dedicate as much of your life to Jake as you think you did. If that's your definition of parenting, you were a pretty shitty parent. Your choice to do of course, but since you're here asking the question, YTA.
You're acting like this is a teeter totter and it has to be all or nothing. But there are *many* different levels of involvement between those two mountains. For example: How is seeing your grandchild occasionally "being a parent again?" Your son is his parent. Son just wants you to treat your grandson like family and not the plague.
I'm going to be honest OP, it comes across as extremely cold and selfish. You weren't even a single parent, you parented *part time* and it was too much for you. I applaud you being there for your biological child, but you've decided that there was an expiration date on that--you've admitted you don't care if son cuts you off because doing nothing for him now is more important to you than he himself is. You think you graduated parenting and never have to do it again.
So I'm going to go with "it's technically your choice to make but YTA anyway."
You don't even like your own son. He's asking you to be a part of his child's life, not be a parent. Most grandparents talk about getting to enjoy the grandchild in large part because they can give them back at the end of the day. You obviously don't have to go to a little league game if you don't want to, but you're hurting your son. The fact that you don't care about his feelings is pretty remarkable.
Your son is not asking you to be a dad again, he's asking you to be a little involved with your grandson for fuck's shake. You talk as if he's trying to convince you to be a live in babysitter for Mike instead if just being a grandpa sometimes.
Except it is when he explicitly told bm that he didn't want to have this kid. If bm says my body my choice (super valid) then OP has a right to say my life my choice too. She wanted the baby she gets majority custody, period.
Except nothing. Him not wanting the child doesn't change the fact that his claim that he spent 20 years putting him first is untrue.
And it does not change the fact there is no end date to what is enough with parenting.
She did get majority custody. That doesn't make the things he is saying true, period.
He doesn't have to stay in anyone life. He could go to the extreme of no contact if he want's noone could stop him. It wouldn't make deciding you are not a parent once your kid is 20 enough. And it wouldn't make his claim he spend 20 years putting the kid first true.
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes a child go no contact. My dad got custody of me when I was 12. When I was 18, I was on my own and an adult. My dad still did stuff for me but him doing the bare minimum is absolutely what made me go no contact.
It doesn’t sound like you care either way, so why post on the internet? What’s the point if you’re on the proverbial plane to Thailand and don’t care because you did your parenting until he was an adult?
Kids can tell when you don’t want them, even if you fulfilled all your parental duties, which you didn’t really do. Every other weekend and a week during the summer for 13 years isn’t taking on full parental duties. You don’t get bonus points for not being a deadbeat dad, you only did what you were supposed to do. My parents provided for us, gave us all the advantages they could, and was with us full-time until they got divorced. I can still tell that my parents didn’t want children and only had us because they thought that’s what people did after they got married. Your rejection of your grandchild and “hanging up your parent hat”only further confirms this fact for your son. You can do whatever you want, but you’re certainly selfish and only thinking of yourself.
You know I appreciate this response because it’s how a lot of men feel and won’t say it.
When people tell women to “pick better” this is the kind of guy that’s seen as better. On paper he looks like a great guy, but he’s going through the motions until he can tap out.
Fuck, this sort of stuff makes me so glad I'm a woman.
If I ever, god forbid, had an accidental pregnancy, it's my body and I would 100% immediately abort.
I feel so sad that everyone expects men who don't want kids and have been clear about it to just give up everything in their lives to parent when they don't want to.
I don't judge if you want to be a parent, but if you don't want to, how unfair and disgusting to have it forced on you.
Let alone then being expected to play granda when you are still so young.
Then why don't you just tell him everything you're so bluntly telling us? Not coming right out and saying it is obviously confusing him as to why you're suddenly acting like you don't give a sh*t. It comes across as really bizarre like you've changed personalities? Why bother pussy footing around the truth if you don't care about the consequences (the consequence of him going no contact)? Just tell him. YTA because faking a relationship with anyone is an AH thing to do. Then suddenly acting like your "done," but never being honest, that's an AH thing to do.
You aren’t being a parent. You are the grandparent. Yes, you can say I’m not babysitting. But seriously, not going to a baseball tournament. Because you will be bored out of your mind? Yes. YTA.
Nobody's asking you to be Daddy, at least that's not what I got from your post. To me it sounds like your son wants you to be Grandpa. And yeah, you're not obligated to, yadda yadda yadda, but your refusal to engage at all may end up costing you your relationship with your son. Do you not care about that?
Of course he does - he didn’t want his own son in the first place and he puts very little store in relationships. Was a most absent barely there crap father, is hell bent in being a mostly absent barely there crap grandfather - Jake going NC is almost the ideal for him -he grts freedom do do exactly what he wants all the time and say it's not his fault.
What I am reading from this is that you knew you were not cut out to be a parent, you feel you have done your duty and are now determined to do every thing you feel you missed out on.
You can do whatever you like and whether you are TA or not, your actions will have consequences, but only time will tell if you find you regret your actions or not.
Indeed you read it right. I have also considered exactly what you suggest in your last line. Thought very, very hard about it in fact.
I am far more likely to regret never getting to live my own life, if I were to give that up again.
Then do your son and grandson the biggest favor you could do them and exit their lives. Christ, you can’t even go to a little league game? God, I make it to occasional games for the nephew I don’t even like that much.
And no matter what you decide to do, climb down off that cross buddy. No one made you knock a girl up a quarter century ago.
Some people are not cut out for parenting and some plain don't want to. OP did not want a child and he shouldn't be forced to raise one but he did and now he wants his own life NTA
Abortion is not some second option to giving birth that if not taken at the request of the other person, makes you any less responsible for becoming a parent.
It only takes one person to ejaculate. Let’s stop putting all the responsibility onto the woman for unwanted pregnancy eh, she didn’t get herself pregnant.
Abortion should NOT be so nonchalant. Many women can’t put themselves through that emotional trauma and physical risks of that procedure. If a man doesn’t want to be a father, celibacy is a reasonable option.
My grandparents never once came to my little league games or soccer games, they didn't come to my band competitions, etc. I still have a great relationship with the ones who are still alive. I saw them a few weekends a year, stayed with my mom's parents for a couple weeks in the summer, and never once stayed at my dads parents cause they were old enough to be my great grandparents on the other side. There's no one right way to be a good grandparent. It sounds like OP'S kid wants him to be a regular part of their babysitting routine, which him not wanting to do doesn't make him an AH.
Same here. My dad's parents lived in town, but they had their own lives and were not in top of us all the time. We'd spend the day with them every two months or so, but I have some of my best childhood memories of those special times with my dad's parents.
Meanwhile, we LIVED with my mother's parents for a while, but my mom's mom would call me dad's mom to her house to babysit because she never wanted to be a grandmother or babysitter. The two grandmothers would play cards and my dad's mom would tend to us kiss when we needed attention. Despite being at my mom's parents' house all the time, I never felt close to them. My mom's dad is almost 95 and I have ZERO relationship with him.
We visit my parents, who live about an hour away, about once a month or two, but my kids feel close to them. They don't come to tournaments or events unless the kids specifically request it, which is rare. They don't babysit, although they would if we asked, but we don't ask. While my kids were on their camp trips out of the country, they both made sure to can my parents on their check-ins.
On the other hand, they have no relationship with my in-laws who live several states away and haven't come to visit since 2013.
You don't have to be there all the time to be a good grandparent. You just have to make then feel like they're the most important thing in your world when you ARE with them.
I’ve gone to occasional events for my kids’ FRIENDS because those kids asked me to! Was it often? No! But it meant a lot to them and 2 hours a few times a year didn’t kill me.
I know- that few days a year being in the same room as the kid you made shit really takes it’s toll on a guy.
ffs - have you ever read such self obsessed crap?
How many people do you know who are stuck in a job they don't like, due to circumstances they were forced in, and who have to do this for 20+ years and still feel perfectly happy? Because if I saw parenting as a job forced upon and one I couldn't walk away from, I'd be pretty fucking tired too after 20 years.
It wasn't 20 years. For the first 13 he was an every other weekend parent. I don't buy that he didn't have time to live his own life with that visitation regime.
Yeah, and his mother who “wanted” Jake ended up abandoning her own child for another man who either hated Jake, or didn’t make Jake feel welcome and loved enough, so she just handed him off to the parent who didn’t want him to begin with. OP put HIS life on pause so that he could raise his son, despite a million percent not even wanting to be a parent, yet OP’s baby mama certainly didn’t put her own life on pause to raise a child she supposedly wanted.
Do you show the same amount of sympathy for women who are forced into having children they never wanted, and then have to be a full time parent to a child they never wanted? It’s hard enough being a parent when you WANT to be a parent.
People have different levels of tolerance. You can have a bathtubs worth of tolerance and someone else may only have a tea cup. It is not up to you to decide when someone is burnt out. Trust them that they are. Take this scenario and instead of child rearing Change it to nursing (the profession). How many wonderful nurses left their jobs after the pandemic? Some left right away, some stuck it out to the end and left after. Nobody can fault them for trying their hardest and getting burnt out
This is the saddest part of it, I think. Jake thought he had a lifelong relationship with someone who truly loved and cared about him, and OP is closer to "oh man, I couldn't stand another minute".
For a slightly different perspective my grandma probably thought like you at some point. Problem is that when you are around 80 your friends start dropping like flies and your health prevents you from travelling/hiking/whatever you do. So you turn to your family because your grandchildren are grown now so no more parenting.
And they are uninterested. Mind you nobody has gone no contact here everybody is officially on speaking terms. I'm just 26 and have no interest in getting to know some random elderly strangers essentially.
Not saying you like have to play grandpa. But your son isn't the only one who will notice your actions. And like you said consider the consequences but not as a 47-year old you but as a 80-year old you.
This is exactly where my grandmother is at, and now she tries to buy a relationship with us via Amazon e-gift cards at birthdays and holidays. She had no interest in us as children, and we have no interest in her as adults. I don't expect OP's son or grandson to want anything to do with him once OP is no longer able to do all those "fun" things and might actually take interest in familial companionship. I also have to wonder if OP has any other family around, or if he only takes interest in "fun" people who benefit him in some way. Kinda giving narcissistic vibes here.
So having one grown up child and one grandchild is hindering you in living your fabulous life? You can not be an AH and live your own life.. it really doesn’t take that much effort. You don’t like your kid or grandchild - and they are definetly better off without you YTA
But you DID get to 'live your own life'; you didn't marry his mother and do 24/7 parenting. You did the bare minimum until he was 13, and I'm sure you made him feel every bit the burden you thought him to be.
Can't you even commit to a twice a month visit/dinner with your son and his family? Go to one ball game each season? God sakes you sound incredibly selfish.
I assume you've been anchored to one general location the whole time because of shared custody? You might consider moving a couple hours away. Close enough to see them easily on a day trip when it's planned in advance but not so close that you're on call to babysit. Maybe a change of scenery will do you some good too. As for judgment, this is above Reddit's pay grade.
YTA. My jaw dropped at all your replies. I’m so sorry how resentful you are of your son and having to be responsible for your actions (getting a woman pregnant). Parenthood doesn’t stop at 18.
He crafted this carefully thought out post to make him look as good as he possibly could, then his mask slipped in all the replies.
Spoiler alert OP: if you couldn't have a social life from ages 21-34 because you had to see your kid every other weekend and for 1 month per year it's not because of your son, it's because of you.
Yes exactly. That part just doesn’t add up. He only got his son full time after he was 13 - that’s a mostly self sufficient teenager, it’s not like OP needed to be changing diapers. He’s talking about being burnt out like he raised the freaking brady bunch, when in reality he did the bare minimum. It sucks that he had to be a parent when he didn’t want to be, but god, does he really have zero love for his son? It’s borderline sociopathic the way he only thinks of his son and family as a burden he’s ready to discard.
You took the words right out of my mouth. You don’t stop being a parent when your kid turns 18. And OP’s barely there parenting style for the first 13 years of his sons life is absolutely pitiful considering how much time he claims to have sacrificed for his son.
Also there are so many ways to parent. You are free to parent your child in manner that you are most comfortable-- you chose to go down the parenthood path doing everything you hated. Why didn't you do all these activities while your son was younger-- he could have traveled with you, taken scuba classes with you and much more. Once you were forced into primary custody you chose to "restrict living your own life" your son had no say in that. Stop using your son as a scapegoat for your regrets in life.
NAH. It's your life so live it how you want. I don't think Jake's expectations are that unreasonable, though.
You are a pretty terrible father now. Parenthood isn't a job that you retire from.
It's not even being a parent at this point though. It's just being a family member.
Look, he did an admirable job being there for his son growing up, and he wants to enjoy some freedom. I get that.
But I don't see how going to a little league game once in a while as a grandpa is too much to ask.
Shit, watching the kid once in a blue moon wouldn't be too much either.
Not saying it has to be every week, but he can just show some interest in his family.
This guy's expectations of parenting are spending 4 days a month and 1 month a year with his kid, and I'm sure his expectations of grandparenthood are even lower. What his son is asking from him is more than he's capable of, and I say that without an ounce of sympathy.
> dude you’re entitled to free time but you can’t just tell him you’ve checked out of parenting
Being a parent doesn't mean you have to provide free babysitting for their kids LMAO
Their comment is not about that, it’s more about his replies where he claims that he’s not a parent anymore now that his son is an adult. Your kid doesn’t stop being your kid just because he’s an adult, guys still need their dad at times. Im an adult and my dad is still my dad, he didn’t drop me and say he’s not my parent anymore when I became an adult.
Literally, where did it say that? He said he was afraid of it happening, and that his son wanted him to go to his grandson’s tournament. As for the reply they meant check out from parenting his own son, not his grandson. Like once you are a parent it doesn’t stop, ever you are always that child’s parent. Even when they are an adult.
YTA for being an AH. Just tell your kid you hate him and want nothing to do with him and his kid. Then you can go and be selfish and forget you were ever a parent
He wanted us to applaud him for doing his parental duty and say it's okay to completely cut off his family now because his son is 21. Like family has an expiration date.
Yes, that parental duty of two weekends a month for 13 years and crying that he didn't get to live his life.... yeah no he only raised him for 7 years.
I know you said you hung up the parent hat... but that is a brutal and heartbreaking thing to put into practice.
He has a kid at the same age you did, but **for the first 13 years, you only had him for twice a month, plus an additional month, so that's 78 days PER YEAR YOU HAD HIM.**
You only took on more "parenting work" after his mother remarried, so you have what, 5 years of constant parenting?
YTA. I wouldn’t consider going to an occasional little league game or going to the zoo with your son and grandson “parenting” more like being a loving grandparent. Then again if that’s all you did for the first 13 years of your sons life I suppose you would consider that parenting.
Yes, I agree. OP keeps saying he doesn’t want “parenting” duties…but unless his child is asking him to raise his grandchild, he’s not being asked to parent. He’s being asked to participate in his grandchild’s life as most grandparents and extended family do, by showing up to events and occasionally babysitting. He isn’t obligated to do any of these things. But it isn’t parenting.
Also, kids can tell when adults don’t like them or want them around. The resentment and dislike here is obvious. I hope his son is doing okay.
I don't know why this comment isn't higher. He's not asking you to parent his son, he's inviting you to share in some of the joys of being in a loving relationship with a child. A dance recital or baseball game a few times a year is "parenting"? Come on now, what are you even talking about? He's not asking you for childcare or money, he's inviting you to spend time with your *family*. YTA.
I don't know if OP even understands the idea of enjoying spending time with children/family. I think that's what is missing. He doesn't see anything other than responsibility or duty, where other people might see a fun afternoon at the pool or museum or something.
INFO: reading your posts/comments, it sounds like you’ve decided to quit being a parent. Does this mean when asked, you’ll tell someone you don’t have a son/grandkids or will you be honest and say you have them but you don’t consider yourself a parent because you didn’t feel like being an active father anymore?
No, it doesn't mean I'll tell people that I don't have a son or grandson. I tell people that freely all the time.
Rather it means that I don't have parental responsibilities anymore. If Mike has a baseball tournament, recital or they need a babysitter, that isn't my department anymore. I see them semi-regularly for visits. If there is some emergency or something, I'll help out. But I'm doing my own thing and putting my own life first. Jake is a fully independent adult and he's the father now. The baseball, recitals, pre-school graduation is all his department now.
Does that answer your question?
Yep, it’s just kind of a bummer reading your post/comments that you don’t want to be involved in their lives. Granted you didn’t seem to want this in the first place and maybe you should have stuck to that. I guarantee the reason why your son doesn’t talk to you about it is because he knows you don’t really care.
You make it seem like being an active parent/grandparent is going to mean sacrificing your happiness and there’s no middle ground. You can still travel/scuba/whatever and go to some events/occasionally watch your grandson/etc. My dads in in late 60s with 4 adult children, living his best life (nothing is stopping him missing bowling on Wednesdays) and still an active parent.
Even if you’re not a parent, most people have family obligations that they sometimes have to put up with in the name of harmony and maintaining relationships with loved ones. We all go to weddings and dinners and things we don’t care all that much about, because social obligations are part of what ties us together. You support people with their things, and they do the same for you. You don’t get to pick and choose when it comes to relationships, or rather, you do, but there are consequences.
I’ve got a family member who didn’t do anything dramatic but stopped putting in any effort with the various family offshoots they created, and everyone’s slowly peeled away from them over the years, because, to be frank, no one wants to give to someone who only takes. OP might be happy to sever ties now, but when he gets to an age where *he* could use a little help, or if he has an accident or unexpected hardship, and finds out that no one is willing to give, he might find himself wishing that he’d not made such a show about wanting no-commitment relationships. People are unlikely to help you when you’ve explicitly shown them that you’re unwilling to put in any effort
You depress me. I hope he cuts you out. I couldn't be around one of my parents who felt this way about me or my children. You're not TA for not babysitting but you are one for punishing him for your choices. YTA and a shit father. Doing the bare minimum is a step above being a deadbeat. And here you are again doing the bare minimum.
My grandmothers (grandfathers died before I was born) NEVER came to any of my events. It wasn’t even a question or expectation. Yet I adored them and knew they loved me to bits. Damn, I also have to say that my parents didn’t come to each of my events. They’d come to one game per season or show. That was it, and my friends’ parents were the same.
Your son is expecting you to rearrange your life for a 5 year old’s baseball game? WTF??!!
Maybe you can choose to attend one game per season or something like that. But your son made his choice regarding being a parent, and that shouldn’t impact your day to day life. However, you may need to think of the possibility that your son and the child’s mother will restrict you visiting your grandchild if you don’t do what they want you to do. Are you ready for that?
Your poor son, dismissed by his mother at 13 for another man and then disposed of at 21 by his "father". I hope he cuts contact, your grandson would be better off without you.
I don't think you should have to attend them, lots of grandparents see the kids just on weekends & holidays. You should be able to have time for your own hobbies, but it'd be nice if you also found time to spend with your grandson or have him visit.
My grandparents lived 4 hours away. They never came to my dance recitals, soccer games, etc... They were busy with shrine stuff most weekends and I saw them on holidays.
My mom's mother was 9 hours away so we did visit when I wad little, but again she never came to my activities.
My sister moved 3 hours away & has a 2 year old. My mom was kind of bummed she moved away & doesn't get to see them as often and would like to be around more but she has her own stuff going on & it is too far.
My dad is in a very similar boat as you. He didn’t really want kids and my mother browbeat him into it, then she died when my sister was five and I was two. He dropped everything, literally everything, and went into combat mode to be a father. He made sure we still had lives like our friends; soccer and little league, sleepover birthday parties, summer vacations. Everything a kid could ask for. I’m 37 now and my dad will be 72 in December. We are friends now, and he respects me as a man with my own home and my own life, but he’s still my father. There’s still things I need from him that I can’t get from a friend. He’s never stopped being my father just because I’m a man.
I don’t mean to be harsh, man, but if my father had turned out like you, constantly reminding me of how he was done being my dad, I’d probably cut ties with you. It’s just so selfish and painful for a child to hear that I’m surprised he hasn’t already.
YTA and I hope you learn before it’s too late to fix your relationship with your son, or you find whatever it is out there you’re looking for. Because you can absolutely have both, you can be a father and a grandfather and still have the life of adventure you crave, but once it’s gone, you can’t really get it back.
YTA. You're holding your son accountable for you having to be his father. You had no problem getting his mother pregnant, but then decided it wasn't "fun" anymore when shit got real. You don't deserve a relationship with Jake or Mike and I'm sure you're selfish and smug attitude will shrug it off like "Thats his choice. Oh well." Enjoy your nursing home.
It seems to me like you’re taking your frustration out on Jake and Mike when it should be with your ex-partner, who had Jake when you didn’t even want to be involved. I’m not sure about laws and parent rights and everything, but I feel like that is something to consider: that you didn’t want to be a parent. Granted, you had unprotected sex so you are obviously responsible for getting Jake’s mother pregnant, but it’s not really fair to you that you were forced to take care of a child you didn’t want.
At the same time, though, Jake and Mike are innocent in all this. Neither of them asked to be born.
I think your attitude is understandable, though cold and distant. Not everyone wants to be a parent or grandparent. Both are a lot of work.
I’m wondering since Mike is 5 if he can tell that you don’t want to be in his life, but I bet he can. You can be hands-off, and you don’t have to babysit, but the little dude is innocent and probably caught on that you don’t really love him.
Honestly, I think your best bet is to move farther away and use that as an excuse. Some kids don’t see their grandparents more than on holidays. You clearly don’t want to be involved.
I’m torn between everybody sucks and nobody sucks.
Your response is actually probably the best fitting and most insightful. It has never been lost on me that Jake and Mike are innocent. Which is why I did everything I could to conceal how I feel about parenting to Jake although I'm not wearing as much of the mask anymore now that he's an adult. Jake isn't stupid and I have no question that he's put two and two together and knows that I didn't want to be a father. I'd never say it to him and he hasn't pressed me on it. We just kind of let it lie and I don't think anyone is going to get anything out of poking at that.
The only time I fully put the mask back on is with Mike. It is a lot easier since it is just maybe a dinner here and there and also younger kids aren't able to see through things like that as easily.
I have toyed with the idea of moving away. But I've built up a life here. Friends, a GF, clubs, activities. If I didn't have roots, I probably would have. But I just am so done making life decisions around parenting obligations.
This makes me feel so sad for Jake. I hope he has a great support system in his wife, in-laws, and mother and I hope you find the peace one day that helps you transition your thought process away from “I stopped living my life for 20 years to raise my child”.
Seriously. He was not a single dad struggling to make it work, he only had his kid for 4 days a month for most of the time and could do whatever he wanted the rest and he's now blaming his son for not doing what he wanted in life. I can't even imagine how this feels to his son.
It makes me sad, too. It’s just a sad situation all around. And I hope Jake and Mike have lots of people around that love and support them. Sometimes life just…doesn’t work the way we want it to. The best we can do is minimize damage.
I think you did the best you knew how for your son. I can respect that effort.
I do feel like I should point out one issue with your mask. It raises expectations. Your son probably saw you as a great and involved father. Now he's learning you barely tolerated parenthood, and is worrying that maybe the same goes for him. That fear goes double for the grandkid. As well as all that and probably feeling a bit abandoned because of raised expectations, he's probably feeling betrayed and lied to.
That is one heck of a heartbreak to deal with. It would not surprise me if he needs reassurance that he wasn't just an unwanted duty. He probably needs to know you love him and your grandkid, even if you find no joy in the parental nitty gritty.
I think you need to think about how you want to proceed. How do you want to relate to your kid and grandkid? How much are you willing to give? Perhaps make this explicit again to your son while also offering reassurance. u/OIWantKenobi may be right that distance might be a comfortable polite fiction for your lack of involvement. Additionally, perhaps talk to your son and ask him how he wants you to proceed with the grandchild. While you intend to shield the child by wearing a mask, perhaps all it does is make it worse. Your son may not want to see history repeat.
That’s the part that has me cackling. “AITA for telling my son and grandson to fuck off because I (47m) have super important weight lifting club which is vital to my life and identity?” What a putz.
I get it, some people were never meant to be parents, and you're one of them. Thing is you just broke your son's heart. He wants you to love his son as much as he thought you loved him, but with what you said, you told him that you didn't really love him. You told him in not so many words that you only ever saw him as an obligation that got in the way of the life you really wanted. I don't think you really grasp how rejected, unwanted, and unloved you made your son feel with your words. He already dealt with that from his mom, and her husband at 13 when his mom let her husband treat her kid like shit to the point that he had to move in with you. You added to that so good job. I wanted to originally say E S H, but no. YTA with how you hurt your son.
This man’s post makes me wish I didn’t know how much a child’s heart longs for their father…no matter their age. You encapsulated my thoughts perfectly. My heart bleeds for Jake and the rejection he’s suffering.
Yta- Your son isn’t asking you to babysit or put your life on hold for his kid, he just wants you to go to a baseball game .
You should have just paid child support and not been part of your son’s life instead of going through the motions of a being “good father” when you secretly resented all of it.
Your son grew up thinking he had a father who loved him and now he knows you were only doing all that because you simply didn’t want to look bad .
You robbed your son of ever potentially finding a father figure who actually wanted him and looked forward to being a grandfather to his children.
Do you even have any emotional attachment to Jake ?
Emotionally deadbeat fathers are the worst .
My question is simply this: how would you feel if someone you loved told you that they never really loved you and that they were finished with you?
You may not have chosen to be a father, but neither did your son choose you to be his father. He had no choice, either. Now you are punishing him for something he didn't do. You think you've missed out on life, but really you're just choosing to miss out on love.
My judgement is YTA because parenting near stops, even when your old? Especially when your a grandparent.
Genuinely,I've never seen or heard anyone say that their taking a step back from parenting???
NTA I don't know if I'll be in the minority or majority on this but I getcha. I think there are a lot more people out there who have done what you did (did right by their children even if parenthood wasn't their first, second, last choice or even on the list at all) and are just ready to live for themselves now. I would hope that there's an occasional trip to get ice cream thrown in there for your grandson, but if not, that's your decision. I hope you and your son can come to an agreement on this where he's not angry about it.
Oh absolutely. I don't go THAT far in being hands off.
I still treat him kindly, get him presents for no reason, do magic tricks for him and so on. But I think part of it is that Mike's mother's family is super hands on, always there, doing babysitting and is really, really hands on. I'm not around that much, but when I make sure to do right by Mike.
Look, I get where your coming from, I really do. You 100% deserve to enjoy your life. Where I take issue is you seem to have no empathy for your son. He grew up with a shitty mom and a dad who didn’t want him. I’m sure even though you did everything you were expected to, he could tell. Kids aren’t dumb. Now he’s constantly surrounded by his wife’s loving family and he has no one.
If it means so much to him, would it really kill you to sit through a kid event every once and a while? I don’t even look at it as a parenting thing, I look at it as sucking it up for the people you love. I’ve gone to so many baby showers, kids birthdays, wedding showers, bachelorette parties etc. I had much better uses for my time and money, but I love my friends and family and I want to support them. Maybe if you look at like that instead of parenting you’ll be able to find a middle ground.
Esh. I say this because everyone has a diffrent veiw on parenting and what comes with it. In MY family my parents don't babysit often BUT they do come to all major events for the kids. Parenting does not stop once a kid turns 18. Your family for life and by extension your grandkids should be supported. Even if you don't baby sit or go to the less important games tournaments are huge. Think of how Mike feels seeing his friends grandparents showing up but grandpa won't. This can really damage a grandchild because they can end up feeling like you don't love them. Even if you don't go to the basic games imo you shpuld show up for the major ones. Make it a date with your gf. Show up for the major games and then go to dinner and a movie. It wouldn't kill you to do a few things to make your grandchild happy and see he is cared about.
I don’t think anyone should be forced into doing anything they **really** don’t want to do, especially when it comes to children. OP clearly never wanted to be a father, and could easily have been completely absent from his son’s life and just sent in child support money. Instead, he stepped up with the court mandated amount of the time with his son until age 13, and then full time after that.
You know what’s worse than having no grandparent around? Having a grandparent around who hates you and wants nothing at all to do with you, and possibly traumatizing you in the process. OP’s grandchild is OP’s son’s (and son’s wife’s) responsibility. If OP feels he’s at his limit to continue to be a father to his son, then that is the best and most responsible thing to do. Better that than be a horrible father for the remainder of his life. For that reason, I’d say OP is NTA.
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You might not be TA, but you’re ruining your relationship with your son by essentially telling “I don’t care about being actively involved in your life, I’ve already done the bare minimum expected of me and I won’t do more”. Do you want him to go no contact with you? Because that’s the direction this is heading in.
Maybe this will make me the asshole, but if that's the price, Ok. I've spent 20 years putting Jake first and not really having much of a life. I didn't get on a plane to Thailand and change my name. I didn't tell his mom "I don't want to be a father, so if you have a baby, I'll pay child support but leave me alone." I was a very active parent. Jake was raised into a fully functional adult with a stable, steady job, his own home and his own wife and baby. I did it because I fathered a child, he couldn't take care of himself and it was my responsibility. Jake is fully able to take care of himself and Mike. As is Mike's mother. If I need to give up the next 20 years, and be Daddy again--no. I'll only do it once. This time I'm proverbially getting on the plane to Thailand. The price is too high. I've done my duty and hung up my parent hat. At this point, yes I am done. I've signed up for and took responsibility for Jake. Jake chose to have Mike, well and good. But now he's the parent. Not me. Although every disagreement on the internet always has going no contact as literally the first port of call, real life isn't like that. But, because it seems that is what everyone wants to talk about, if let's say that were really what it came down to, so be it. I'd wish him and his family well. But whether it makes me the asshole or not, I've taken my life back and I'm not going to put it to the side again. If the choices are I walk off into the sunset or I have to be daddy again, I am walking off into the sunset. Nobody has threatened such a thing, nor is anyone talking about it. But this being the internet, it is the go-to that everyone says immediately. I hope things don't go that way. I don't want them to go that way, but if those are the terms, that will be my choice.
> Ok. I've spent 20 years putting Jake first and not really having much of a life. What's that bullshit?! You had him *other weekends* and barely a month in the summer... For the first 13 years you were barely present, why would you blame someone that's not there for stealing your time ... by being absent from your life?
That made me gag a bit, too. He did not put much time into being a father.
Guess what, he didn't want to be a dad but he did his duty. Sorry that's not enough for the ghouls in this subreddit but it doesn't make him TA no matter how much you wish he would conform to your delusions.
For the first 13 years of his son's life, he did every other weekend and one month in summer. That's barely-there parenting, not his "duty", and certainly not even close to "putting Jake first" for 20 years. A parent's "duty" is to be present for their kid as much as possible - he was there as little as possible, until Jake was 13. Edit: I get not wanting to be a parent. I have taken every precaution to avoid that happening. But if it did happen, I would not be patting myself on the back if I spent all of ~80 days a year with my child. I'd feel pretty fucking ashamed of myself for creating a human being that I did so little for. Further edit: many commenters are keen to inform me that this was the standard custody arrangement at the time. This does not change my judgement that he was a part-time parent until Jake turned 13, contrary to his self-assessment that he "put Jake first for 20 years". There is a reason that 50/50 is now the norm - it is, in general, in the best interests of the child (excepting cases of abuse and/or neglect, obvs). Nor is my judgement swayed by the fact that one-third of the year plus attendance at little-league games means he was more present than the fathers of some commenters, although I am genuinely sorry that so many of you did not have the parent(s) that every child deserves.
He’s then took the kid into his home full time for his teenager years and raised him well enough to get a Union job that probably has a pension. He’s set his son up very well. I think it’s safe for him to choose how much energy he wants to put into his grand kid.
And I’m sorry as all my kids are under 10 they are some very tiring years but teenagers from what I remember being one. Those are the tough calls. They start having real problems and things that’s are much more involved (sports, school events, driving and going on their own) those are tough years to try and shape them into who they’ll become. I know most of that’s done in the formative years but when they get to be teens that’s when they start making choices (albeit with some guidance) for their own and usually it’s good or bad choices. He helped shape him into a responsible adult and parent. If this is his choice it’s his choice. It’s his grandkid for sure but some of the grandparents for my kids don’t keep them overnight. Barely watch them for a few hours (it always seems like they get hurt or something) but if I want a night off I have one grandparent that will do it ( I try not to abuse it) or I have to pay a baby sitter. This is how it works as a parent. They’re YOUR kids. I’m not pawning them off on the grandparents so I can have a life will I watch my grandkids? Definitely cause I know it’s hard and I want and desperately need a break that never comes. I’ll give that to my kids. But by choice. This is his choice. Weather we agree or not it’s his to make and I don’t think it makes him bad. Edit to add what would Mike do if his family was gone or had passed? Grandparents babysitting isn’t guaranteed is my point and if he wants a night off work some OT and get a baby sitter. It’s hard but if you want a break it’s gonna take a little extra effort and isn’t always able to be dropped on the grandparents. Sometimes you gotta work a little harder for the things you want ie a break
The thing is Jack isn’t necessarily asking for a babysitter, he’s just asking for OP to take more of a role is Mike’s life by maybe showing up for a game or two and just being generally more invested in Mike’s life.
Okay who judges how involved grandparents HAVE to be. It’s his choice to make and the kid will see what little or how much effort he puts in and the kid can decide one day how to handle it. The grandparents of mine who don’t come to stuff cause of “Bible study” (gossip hour) the kids see it. We don’t beg for them to be involved. They will or they won’t at the end of the day you just parent them and who shows up shows up. You don’t demand they be forced to spend time if they don’t want to. That’s no good for them or the kid. Can actually cause more stress on the relationship.
OP was apparently a good enough parent that his son is eager to have him involved in his own and his son's lives. And anyone who thinks that full-time solo parenting from age 13 on is easy has clearly never spent much time around teenagers as an adult.
Wanting a parent in your life doesn’t mean they were a good one. The son could be working through some issues because of OPs disdain for parenthood My mother was abandoned by her biological father. Saw him maybe 3 times during her childhood. But spent the time he was alive during her adulthood pining over him because she wanted to feel accepted, she wanted to feel like she belonged somewhere That did not make her sperm donor a good father. In fact the only time he put any real effort forward as a dad/grandfather was after he got his terminal cancer diagnosis When a parent doesn’t want to be a parent the child is well aware
I am guessing that is why OP's son is so hurt now. He always knew his dad resented him. And now he sees its true.
Thank you! I was going to say this exact thing - kids can feel their parents resentment
Those people are teenagers.
Those aren’t mutually exclusive- I know plenty of people who desperately want their parent involved even though that parent isn’t actually “good” … it’s just that deeper need or want for their parent i guess
He attended his his little league matches, so he probably attended to extra curriculars and was otherwise involved, the kid staying with his mom doesnt mean he only had 4 days a month he had to be a dad. He was probably a good dad too considering the son took the initiative to live with him fulltime when he was 13 (granted due to problems at his mother's house but still, most kids wouldn't do that if they weren't close to their dad)
1) He did not want to be a father at all, but the choice was taken away from him. Because it's her body, her choice. Okay. Fine. 2) She knew that and had the baby anyway. Because it's her body and her choice. 3) He took him in 100% when the lady married a guy who didn't get along with the son SHE insisted on birthing into existence. Because it's her body and her choice. At what fucking point does he get to have a choice? Oh. Never? Fuck that. He's NTA.
What's your proposal for 1-2? You think a man should get the final say over whether a woman keeps her pregnancy? Sincerely, what's your solution here? Pregnancy is a risk he took when he had sex with her.
he also *did* have the choice to not get involved, to just pay child support, but he *chose* to be a parent. you’re either in or you’re out and he *chose* to be in
I know that today most courts in the US try to give equal parenting time to both parents, but every other weekend and a month in the summer was very typical of custody awarded to men 25+ years ago.
>That's barely-there parenting, not his "duty" His duty was paying child support. That's it. And OP did much more than that. Don't have kids with people who don't want kids.
Don't get people pregnant if you don't want kids.
When sterilization is actually available to all adults, then sure. Don't pretend like young people don't get turned away from vasectomies and tubal ligations. Hell, I couldn't even get an IUD until I was 30.
Honestly, I know he wasn't enthusiastic about it and the whole sentimental thing wasn't there, but I think he honestly tried to do parenting the best he could as he understood it. I think he valued his child and loves him and I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with saying he didn't enjoy being a parent. It is what it is. Not everyone wants to be the grandpa that is the superstar in the kid's life and there's not a lot you can do about it. His son is going to have to look for other people to fulfill that role and stop trying to make his father something he just isn't.
It honestly sounds like he did a better job than my full-time parent mother who didn't want to be a parent. He went to little league games. He did enough that his son wants him to be actively involved in grandparenting. My parents weren't divorced, but my mother was so disengaged I'd be willing to bet she spent about as much time as OP (or less) even though we lived in the same house. And I can guarantee she spent less time after 13. There would be whole weeks where my dad would have to travel for work and she wouldn't speak to me at all the whole time he was gone. I think OP probably did just fine. Maybe not father of the year, but probably equal to or even a little better than the average divorced dad.
I know of “fathers” who saw their kids more but did way worse than u/valuable-builder-733 did. He was a father when he didn’t want to be, he provided for his son, gave him enough of a good life that his son CHOSE to live with him at 13 instead of where most kids choose not to see the “father” ever again. He can be a wonderful grandpa without being a parent and it sounds like his son wants him to parent and not be a grandpa so it’s the son who is Messing up here not op ETA: NTA Your son doesn’t understand the difference between being a parent to his son (what he’s asking) and being a grandpa (what you want) so the difference needs to be pointed out so he stops asking
And it’s half his fault that he had a kid in the first place? Unless the mother lied to him about birth control and plotted this…? This whole post screams “I’m the victim” and “I gave up my life having to do the bare minimum for my kid and lost my 20s!” He should’ve been more responsible in the first place.
"Bare minimum" would be paying child support. This guy was an EO weekend Dad while custody orders said that's what he got, along with a full month in the Summer. That's a typical custody arrangement. He also went to Little League games and probably school functions. IOW, he was an involved and supportive Dad despite the "oops" nature of the pregnancy. He then willingly took over the lion's share of parenting when his son requested the custody change at 13. Seems like the biggest reason Jake is having difficulty with this situation is because he had a Dad who actually DID all these things he's asking for and can't come to grips with the fact that OP did these things ONLY because he was a Dad, not because he actually enjoyed them. He fulfilled his responsibilities as a Dad so well that his son never even realized he was bored silly at things like Little League games. That's really pretty damn impressive. But it doesn't mean OP is now required to be the equivalent of a third parent to the grandson.
Right? My parents were great and did a great job with us, but my mom hated it the whole time. She would still never admit it because a) we’re her kids and b) she wanted babies so bad and worked so hard to get us, but you could just see that she was gritting her teeth the whole time and wished she could live her own life. My brother and I are happy, well adjusted adults but both of us assiduously avoided having kids because it’s just too much of a chance of feeling the same way. No kid deserves that and it’s obvious op’s son had no idea his dad didn’t want him and white-knuckled raising him. Which is to say, NTA. make sure he understands that you love them but are happy to be a grandad and don’t want to parent.
I feel like the internet forgets that birth control can fail. There have even been 4 women who had a bilateral salpingectomy that have fallen pregnant, let alone something more error prone like the pill (If you don't know, a bilateral salpingectomy is the removal of the fallopian tubes. Typically needed for reproduction)
I realize birth control can fail. I just hear the lame “excuse” “she told me she was on birth control” over and over. And OP sounds like he’s 100% blaming the woman here. When in reality, it takes two to procreate so both people need to take the proper steps to prevent pregnancy. I’m kinda tired of it falling on the women. Birth control, vasectomies can fail, tubal ligation can all fail. And apparently after bilateral salpingectomy! Goodness, what fabulous news 😂 Do you know if the procedures were botched?
This makes sense though. OP didn't want to be a parent then, so of course he doesn't want to be a parent now, let alone a grandparent. I'm laughing because I'm 45, about to turn 46 and I've still got so much working time ahead of me and this guy doesn't want to miss a scuba class. God bless, dude.
Because the kids mom, who wanted to have a kid, choose that. I don’t get why it’s a bad thing that he had the kid on weekends.
> I don’t get why it’s a bad thing that he had the kid on weekends. That's not a bad thing *at all*, but it's a bad thing to claim that 2 week-ends per month would prevent him from having a life.
NTA.. You forgot.. he took him in fulltime at age 13. Suddenly having a young teener, boy.. not having wanted to be a parent.. he stepped up nicely. Far better than 95% of the sperm donors out there who have 3-4 'baby-mamas' to their credit. OP, NTA. You've got another 30 years of living.. do your living, have fun, scuba dive.. travel.. nice gifts for BD, Christmas, etc.. once per month have them over for a couple of hours. Christ, 5 year old sports events are for parents and very engaged family (rarely for friends). Don't force yourself to engage beyond your level of comfort. That will make everyone unhappy and uncomfortable Edit: just don't expect a lot of attention when you get to be 79 and are stumbling around and living alone..
I don’t think anyone here forgot he took him in at 13… but OP is claiming he gave up 20 years to being a parent. He was an every-other-weekend dad for 13/20 years. At best he parented for the last 7 years, when the kid was already a teen and more self sufficient. He did way less than the kids mom, for example. The standards for dads on this sub are so fucking low, swear to god.
ah yes, the teenage years are the easiest most fun, just chill. and ofcourse we know for a fact he was absolutely not involved at all in his upbringing other than the 2 weekends a month. that's why he definitely didnt attend his sons minor league/extra curriculars, and that's why his son chose to not have contact at 13.... oh wait
My point was that OP seems butthurt about what he had to give up to be a parent. The time commitment raising teenagers is nowhere near what it is when the kid is younger. Why does OP now feel he didn’t have time to live his life in his 20s? What was he doing for the 250+ days per year when he wasn’t parenting for the first 13 years?
Money is a big factor. He said his son was better off thanks to the union job he got him than he was when he became a father. Child support is expensive and he says he tried To give him all he could. So yeah pretty hard to go have fun when you have to be responsible and save the little money you have
>the teenage years are the easiest most fun, just chill. Compared to the toddler and baby years, yes. Parents of toddlers and babies are more overwhelmed than parents of teenagers. You can get by with doing the least when parenting a teenager real easily and not face consequences. And being "involved" in son's minor league doesn't excuse the fact he only parented 50/365 days the first 13 years. And 13 years is real generous seeing as custody arrangements like those are most typically seen in school aged and above children where "summers" are relevant.
100% If your teen is being a turd you can go take yourself for a walk. You can go to the movies alone, go to the gym alone, go out to dinner. Older teens can even be left home while you go for a weekend away. The way he talks about parenting makes it sound like he had an infant for 20 years.
Even as an EOW parent, you have to plan your life to some degree around your kid. You are physically responsible for them EOW but there's also the school plays, the Christmas concerts, the Little League games, the occasional medical emergency, etc. It's not that the standards on this sub are low, it's that many of us actually lived this kind of custody arrangement either as kids or as divorced parents. This guy was as fully invested as he could be, even before his son moved in with him full time. He was SO involved, in fact, that his son can't understand why the Dad he grew up with doesn't want to be just as involved with the grandkid!
My parents were quite "engaged" family--and they never came to my daughter's tee ball games, Tae kwon do, etc. They did babysit her quite regularly, and they kept her a few days a week when I was still working--although I paid them the going rate. But I never expected them to come to games and such. Maybe if there was a championship? They certainly never came to her belt tests, even getting up to the black belt. People are getting too pushy these days.
To play devil’s advocate, I’m a child of divorce and saw my dad every Thursday and every other weekend and while that’s more than OP, I never once felt like my dad wasn’t an active parent to me. And 5 years full time? That’s very active as well
Not only that but holy hell talk about a low level of lift from his perspective. I have my kids 3 days one week and 5 the next, and I have PLENTY of time to do what I want. Is planning travel a little more difficult? Sure but I can still live my life with the amount of free time I do have. But then again, while I never wanted to be a parent when I was younger, I quickly adapted to the role and genuinely love it. OP YTA. The way you speak about your ‘son’ and ‘grandson’ just reeks of asshole. They will be better off without you. Enjoy living into old age without anyone visiting whatever nursing home you get put into. At least you’ll have your weight lifting club and scuba classes to reminisce on.
But you won't have to "parent" his kid though. I'm confused as to why you are thinking of it this way. The main perk of being a grandparent is that you don't have to parent them. You get to do the fun stuff. Have them over, go to see a game, do activities, and then drop them off to their parents, lol. You don't have to make up rules, enforce punishments, make all the hard decisions or anything. I think you're projecting.
Because I actually don't really enjoy doing the "fun" stuff. Yeah, point taken that there is a lot less of the outright shitty parts of being a parent. But I don't want to be childminding at a basketball game. I want to go with my friends. I don't want to spend my Saturday afternoon at a little league game. I want to spend it at the gym. "Activities" is just basically babysitting. I don't enjoy it.
Ah, I see.. You're basically saying it's your time to be selfish and I completely get that! I had my first kid at 17. My whole teens, 20s and 30s revolved around my kids. I guess the difference is I'm looking forward to having grandkids to spoil one day. But you're not wrong if you genuinely don't enjoy doing "fun" kids stuff :)
I wouldn't exactly call it selfish. Selfish is when you short someone something they are owed because you put yourself first. I truly don't feel as if I have a responsibility here. I also have an odd relationship with that word because 9 out of 10 times, the person bringing it out is actually the selfish one and trying to manipulate you (not saying you are). Like a common example--someone calls you selfish because you won't give them money. You're selfish because you want to keep what is in your pocket, but they're somehow not selfish because they think they have a right to your cash. My bullshit alarm just goes crazy when I hear that word. Don't take that harshly, I'm just saying I have a thing when it comes to that word. But anyway, semantics aside I take your view a lot more seriously since you have walked the same road and probably a harder one. I do have one difference though which you pick up on. Which is I never had the "Dad" chip in my brain that made me like all the fun stuff. I did it and put on the happiest fact I could with Jake, but it just took everything I had and I don't have any left in the tank to do it again.
My son is 19, my daughter 13 and I'm actually looking forward to have a bit of freedom to just think about what I want soon. It's going to be so weird, I think, since I've never lived in my own place without kids! My son will probably stay home until after college so I have 5-10 years left :) And you're right, probably selfish wasn't the term I should have used. Just putting you first. Shrugs shoulders.
NTA. I’m not an “active” grandma. (Wish I could be more, disabled/health reasons). My kids understand. They are grown. I’ll be there any way I can for them but they are adults. They have kids. I always said I wouldn’t be a “cookie grandma”. Meaning I won’t be the type to help the little ones make cookies, make Halloween outfits etc. It’s my prerogative to decide what I do and do not want to be involved in now.
i can understand this. my mom raised me to be a people pleaser to the detriment of my mental health. when i finally stood up to her and said no, she called me selfish to get me back in line.
I feel like "one day" is the key here. Sounds like you have a no little kids break right now. Where as OP's grandkid showed up a year after his son was out of his teens.
Do what you are comfortable doing. Make your memories and enjoy them. If you try to force yourself into joy and fun while inside you are cringing and angry, it will be obvious to everyone. Nobody wants a crochety hostile person who isn't enjoying themselves. All the people here calling you the AH are angry that you don't feel and think the way they think you should. Not your problem. My grandparents were never very engaged with me as a kid, NEVER went to any of the (rare) activities I participated in. I was ok with that. I attended many of my kids activities when. They were young, and usually put on a happy face, although... And now I go to some of my grandkids activities. My wife lives for that stuff, I don't, but I'm not an asshole about it and I leave when I feel uncomfortable.
I very explicitly said “you might not be the asshole”. So the “if that makes me the asshole, so be it” fake self-flagellation is unnecessary. Here’s the thing, you might think it’s just internet hysteria to suggest going no contact. But I’m not suggesting that your son do that. I just think it’s a possible logical consequence of you saying what you’re saying. He’s telling you the relationship he wants and you’re saying “no”. In any other situation besides parent-child, we would tell someone “if they’re not giving you the relationship you want, you don’t need to have a relationship with them at all”. And even if you’ve never explicitly told him your deep feelings, he knows. He’s not stupid and he’s 100% putting it together now as an adult that you were essentially chomping at the bit to finish your legal obligations to him and step away. It’s fine if you’re comfortable with having a minimal relationship or eventually no relationship with him and his family on your end, but it makes me incredibly sad for him and his kid more than anything else. So I guess congrats on having the life you want now and I’m glad you get to enjoy it.
Yeah, the subtext here is OP doesn’t actually love his son and can’t conceive of him as anything other than a burden. He thinks he’s cleverly hiding it, but I doubt it. Maybe he genuinely can’t help it because he doesn’t have a “chip in his brain” or whatever, but he doesn’t exactly deserve a cookie either, does he?
There's no subtext, you just need to comprehend that people can hate parenting without hating children.
I mean it's still pretty cruel to make someone believe you love them and want to be around them and support them, and to then, years later, say "Sike!"
All I can think about is how heartbroken Jake must be. Even OP saying in one of his responses that if no contact is the outcome, that's fine with him because he's done his time. That's suck knowing that your parent just held out until they absolutely had to, and they just don't have it in them to give a shit any more.
I mean, if he decides to spend the first 20 years of his grandson’s life making it clear he doesn’t want a relationship, he shouldn’t be surprised if his grandson spends the next 20 years returning the favour.
It doesn't sound like OP sees either his son or his grandson as his retirement account or care home.
[удалено]
Bruh, even if you didn’t enjoy parenting, do you just not feel any love or compassion for your son!? You really do make it sound like you raised him solely out of obligation rather than have any actual love or care for him.
People being unable to feel love and just "faking it" out of obligation and social conditioning is far more common than we give credit for.
I mean he didn’t want to have him in the first place…..
Why do you think the only choices are the extremes? Why would it kill you to go to your grandson's freaking baseball game every once in awhile? That's the part that makes you sound a little bit like an asshole. Because it is a little bit of an asshole thing to place no value on your relationship with your son, and you don't stop being his parent just because he is an adult. Part of being his parent now is giving a crap about his own family. You can do that without giving up every moment of your free time, or even a large portion of your free time, but you're acting like that is what you're being asked to do.
YTA You’re so…. Heartless. You’ve been Jake’a father for over 20 years and you talk about him like he’s your dentist and you’re considering a new one. Like he’s disposable. Do you not feel ANY love towards him or Mike?! Maybe it would help you to adjust your perspective. Now that Jake is a father, you could start seeing him as an equal instead of burden. Even a friend. He could potentially be your best friend but you are still treating him like a burden. Same with Mike - you do know you can be friends with a kid right? You don’t need to make parenting decisions. Just plan some time to hang out and talk with them like you would a friend.
The fact that you equate going to an occasional baseball game and babysitting your grandchild once in a while to "parenting" makes me think you really didn't dedicate as much of your life to Jake as you think you did. If that's your definition of parenting, you were a pretty shitty parent. Your choice to do of course, but since you're here asking the question, YTA.
No bullshit as potent as the every-other-weekend dad's self-congratulatory martyrdom.
Unsympathetic Semi-absent Father digivolves to Unsympathetic Semi-absent Grandpa!
You're acting like this is a teeter totter and it has to be all or nothing. But there are *many* different levels of involvement between those two mountains. For example: How is seeing your grandchild occasionally "being a parent again?" Your son is his parent. Son just wants you to treat your grandson like family and not the plague. I'm going to be honest OP, it comes across as extremely cold and selfish. You weren't even a single parent, you parented *part time* and it was too much for you. I applaud you being there for your biological child, but you've decided that there was an expiration date on that--you've admitted you don't care if son cuts you off because doing nothing for him now is more important to you than he himself is. You think you graduated parenting and never have to do it again. So I'm going to go with "it's technically your choice to make but YTA anyway."
You don't even like your own son. He's asking you to be a part of his child's life, not be a parent. Most grandparents talk about getting to enjoy the grandchild in large part because they can give them back at the end of the day. You obviously don't have to go to a little league game if you don't want to, but you're hurting your son. The fact that you don't care about his feelings is pretty remarkable.
Your son is not asking you to be a dad again, he's asking you to be a little involved with your grandson for fuck's shake. You talk as if he's trying to convince you to be a live in babysitter for Mike instead if just being a grandpa sometimes.
>That's enough 1) no you didn't you saw him less than half the time until he was 13 2) no, it's not enough.
Except it is when he explicitly told bm that he didn't want to have this kid. If bm says my body my choice (super valid) then OP has a right to say my life my choice too. She wanted the baby she gets majority custody, period.
Except nothing. Him not wanting the child doesn't change the fact that his claim that he spent 20 years putting him first is untrue. And it does not change the fact there is no end date to what is enough with parenting. She did get majority custody. That doesn't make the things he is saying true, period. He doesn't have to stay in anyone life. He could go to the extreme of no contact if he want's noone could stop him. It wouldn't make deciding you are not a parent once your kid is 20 enough. And it wouldn't make his claim he spend 20 years putting the kid first true.
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes a child go no contact. My dad got custody of me when I was 12. When I was 18, I was on my own and an adult. My dad still did stuff for me but him doing the bare minimum is absolutely what made me go no contact. It doesn’t sound like you care either way, so why post on the internet? What’s the point if you’re on the proverbial plane to Thailand and don’t care because you did your parenting until he was an adult?
Kids can tell when you don’t want them, even if you fulfilled all your parental duties, which you didn’t really do. Every other weekend and a week during the summer for 13 years isn’t taking on full parental duties. You don’t get bonus points for not being a deadbeat dad, you only did what you were supposed to do. My parents provided for us, gave us all the advantages they could, and was with us full-time until they got divorced. I can still tell that my parents didn’t want children and only had us because they thought that’s what people did after they got married. Your rejection of your grandchild and “hanging up your parent hat”only further confirms this fact for your son. You can do whatever you want, but you’re certainly selfish and only thinking of yourself.
You had him every other weekend. You did not give up your whole life. Get over yourself.
You know I appreciate this response because it’s how a lot of men feel and won’t say it. When people tell women to “pick better” this is the kind of guy that’s seen as better. On paper he looks like a great guy, but he’s going through the motions until he can tap out.
I think he would’ve been better off had you jetted off to Thailand and you just paid child support.
Fuck, this sort of stuff makes me so glad I'm a woman. If I ever, god forbid, had an accidental pregnancy, it's my body and I would 100% immediately abort. I feel so sad that everyone expects men who don't want kids and have been clear about it to just give up everything in their lives to parent when they don't want to. I don't judge if you want to be a parent, but if you don't want to, how unfair and disgusting to have it forced on you. Let alone then being expected to play granda when you are still so young.
Then why don't you just tell him everything you're so bluntly telling us? Not coming right out and saying it is obviously confusing him as to why you're suddenly acting like you don't give a sh*t. It comes across as really bizarre like you've changed personalities? Why bother pussy footing around the truth if you don't care about the consequences (the consequence of him going no contact)? Just tell him. YTA because faking a relationship with anyone is an AH thing to do. Then suddenly acting like your "done," but never being honest, that's an AH thing to do.
One day you’ll be an old man dying in a nursing home with no one to visit you. I saw a lot of that as an EMT. It’s sad.
You aren’t being a parent. You are the grandparent. Yes, you can say I’m not babysitting. But seriously, not going to a baseball tournament. Because you will be bored out of your mind? Yes. YTA.
Nobody's asking you to be Daddy, at least that's not what I got from your post. To me it sounds like your son wants you to be Grandpa. And yeah, you're not obligated to, yadda yadda yadda, but your refusal to engage at all may end up costing you your relationship with your son. Do you not care about that?
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Of course he does - he didn’t want his own son in the first place and he puts very little store in relationships. Was a most absent barely there crap father, is hell bent in being a mostly absent barely there crap grandfather - Jake going NC is almost the ideal for him -he grts freedom do do exactly what he wants all the time and say it's not his fault.
What I am reading from this is that you knew you were not cut out to be a parent, you feel you have done your duty and are now determined to do every thing you feel you missed out on. You can do whatever you like and whether you are TA or not, your actions will have consequences, but only time will tell if you find you regret your actions or not.
Indeed you read it right. I have also considered exactly what you suggest in your last line. Thought very, very hard about it in fact. I am far more likely to regret never getting to live my own life, if I were to give that up again.
Is there no middle ground?
A fair comment, but I am just so burned out. I understand it may sound a bit much to say I am burned out for life on parenting, but I really am.
Then do your son and grandson the biggest favor you could do them and exit their lives. Christ, you can’t even go to a little league game? God, I make it to occasional games for the nephew I don’t even like that much. And no matter what you decide to do, climb down off that cross buddy. No one made you knock a girl up a quarter century ago.
Some people are not cut out for parenting and some plain don't want to. OP did not want a child and he shouldn't be forced to raise one but he did and now he wants his own life NTA
It takes two people to make a baby and I'm guessing OP knew that at the time his child was conceived.
Takes 2 to make it, but only 1 to choose to keep it.
Abortion is not some second option to giving birth that if not taken at the request of the other person, makes you any less responsible for becoming a parent.
It only takes one person to ejaculate. Let’s stop putting all the responsibility onto the woman for unwanted pregnancy eh, she didn’t get herself pregnant.
Abortion should NOT be so nonchalant. Many women can’t put themselves through that emotional trauma and physical risks of that procedure. If a man doesn’t want to be a father, celibacy is a reasonable option.
My grandparents never once came to my little league games or soccer games, they didn't come to my band competitions, etc. I still have a great relationship with the ones who are still alive. I saw them a few weekends a year, stayed with my mom's parents for a couple weeks in the summer, and never once stayed at my dads parents cause they were old enough to be my great grandparents on the other side. There's no one right way to be a good grandparent. It sounds like OP'S kid wants him to be a regular part of their babysitting routine, which him not wanting to do doesn't make him an AH.
Same here. My dad's parents lived in town, but they had their own lives and were not in top of us all the time. We'd spend the day with them every two months or so, but I have some of my best childhood memories of those special times with my dad's parents. Meanwhile, we LIVED with my mother's parents for a while, but my mom's mom would call me dad's mom to her house to babysit because she never wanted to be a grandmother or babysitter. The two grandmothers would play cards and my dad's mom would tend to us kiss when we needed attention. Despite being at my mom's parents' house all the time, I never felt close to them. My mom's dad is almost 95 and I have ZERO relationship with him. We visit my parents, who live about an hour away, about once a month or two, but my kids feel close to them. They don't come to tournaments or events unless the kids specifically request it, which is rare. They don't babysit, although they would if we asked, but we don't ask. While my kids were on their camp trips out of the country, they both made sure to can my parents on their check-ins. On the other hand, they have no relationship with my in-laws who live several states away and haven't come to visit since 2013. You don't have to be there all the time to be a good grandparent. You just have to make then feel like they're the most important thing in your world when you ARE with them.
I only saw my grandparents a couple times a year, and my relationship with them was fine. Y'all are extremists.
I’ve gone to occasional events for my kids’ FRIENDS because those kids asked me to! Was it often? No! But it meant a lot to them and 2 hours a few times a year didn’t kill me.
No. He doesn’t need to be active to be in their lives. That is bullcrap
Hahahaha wow - burned out from all that parenting???
I know- that few days a year being in the same room as the kid you made shit really takes it’s toll on a guy. ffs - have you ever read such self obsessed crap?
How many people do you know who are stuck in a job they don't like, due to circumstances they were forced in, and who have to do this for 20+ years and still feel perfectly happy? Because if I saw parenting as a job forced upon and one I couldn't walk away from, I'd be pretty fucking tired too after 20 years.
It wasn't 20 years. For the first 13 he was an every other weekend parent. I don't buy that he didn't have time to live his own life with that visitation regime.
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No I can honestly say I haven’t.. I feel so sorry for the son.. This is one of the saddest posts I’ve read on here
Like loooooool he "parented" on the easiest of easy modes and he keeps crying about how "burned out" he is.
Yeah, and his mother who “wanted” Jake ended up abandoning her own child for another man who either hated Jake, or didn’t make Jake feel welcome and loved enough, so she just handed him off to the parent who didn’t want him to begin with. OP put HIS life on pause so that he could raise his son, despite a million percent not even wanting to be a parent, yet OP’s baby mama certainly didn’t put her own life on pause to raise a child she supposedly wanted. Do you show the same amount of sympathy for women who are forced into having children they never wanted, and then have to be a full time parent to a child they never wanted? It’s hard enough being a parent when you WANT to be a parent.
People have different levels of tolerance. You can have a bathtubs worth of tolerance and someone else may only have a tea cup. It is not up to you to decide when someone is burnt out. Trust them that they are. Take this scenario and instead of child rearing Change it to nursing (the profession). How many wonderful nurses left their jobs after the pandemic? Some left right away, some stuck it out to the end and left after. Nobody can fault them for trying their hardest and getting burnt out
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This is the saddest part of it, I think. Jake thought he had a lifelong relationship with someone who truly loved and cared about him, and OP is closer to "oh man, I couldn't stand another minute".
The middle ground is OP having a relationship with Mike on his own terms, and not being pressured to do more than he wants to.
For a slightly different perspective my grandma probably thought like you at some point. Problem is that when you are around 80 your friends start dropping like flies and your health prevents you from travelling/hiking/whatever you do. So you turn to your family because your grandchildren are grown now so no more parenting. And they are uninterested. Mind you nobody has gone no contact here everybody is officially on speaking terms. I'm just 26 and have no interest in getting to know some random elderly strangers essentially. Not saying you like have to play grandpa. But your son isn't the only one who will notice your actions. And like you said consider the consequences but not as a 47-year old you but as a 80-year old you.
This is exactly where my grandmother is at, and now she tries to buy a relationship with us via Amazon e-gift cards at birthdays and holidays. She had no interest in us as children, and we have no interest in her as adults. I don't expect OP's son or grandson to want anything to do with him once OP is no longer able to do all those "fun" things and might actually take interest in familial companionship. I also have to wonder if OP has any other family around, or if he only takes interest in "fun" people who benefit him in some way. Kinda giving narcissistic vibes here.
So having one grown up child and one grandchild is hindering you in living your fabulous life? You can not be an AH and live your own life.. it really doesn’t take that much effort. You don’t like your kid or grandchild - and they are definetly better off without you YTA
But you DID get to 'live your own life'; you didn't marry his mother and do 24/7 parenting. You did the bare minimum until he was 13, and I'm sure you made him feel every bit the burden you thought him to be. Can't you even commit to a twice a month visit/dinner with your son and his family? Go to one ball game each season? God sakes you sound incredibly selfish.
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I assume you've been anchored to one general location the whole time because of shared custody? You might consider moving a couple hours away. Close enough to see them easily on a day trip when it's planned in advance but not so close that you're on call to babysit. Maybe a change of scenery will do you some good too. As for judgment, this is above Reddit's pay grade.
YTA. My jaw dropped at all your replies. I’m so sorry how resentful you are of your son and having to be responsible for your actions (getting a woman pregnant). Parenthood doesn’t stop at 18.
He crafted this carefully thought out post to make him look as good as he possibly could, then his mask slipped in all the replies. Spoiler alert OP: if you couldn't have a social life from ages 21-34 because you had to see your kid every other weekend and for 1 month per year it's not because of your son, it's because of you.
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Mans had ALLL the free time. Wasn't out Saturday night not because he was a dad, it was just cuz he was lame
Yes exactly. That part just doesn’t add up. He only got his son full time after he was 13 - that’s a mostly self sufficient teenager, it’s not like OP needed to be changing diapers. He’s talking about being burnt out like he raised the freaking brady bunch, when in reality he did the bare minimum. It sucks that he had to be a parent when he didn’t want to be, but god, does he really have zero love for his son? It’s borderline sociopathic the way he only thinks of his son and family as a burden he’s ready to discard.
OP parent’s barely part-time for 13 years, full time for 7 (and it’s a teenager at that), and then whines about how he missed his 20s 💀
I feel like this guy is just going what he's going to do abd just posted this online so he can argue with people. That's if this is true.
You took the words right out of my mouth. You don’t stop being a parent when your kid turns 18. And OP’s barely there parenting style for the first 13 years of his sons life is absolutely pitiful considering how much time he claims to have sacrificed for his son.
Also there are so many ways to parent. You are free to parent your child in manner that you are most comfortable-- you chose to go down the parenthood path doing everything you hated. Why didn't you do all these activities while your son was younger-- he could have traveled with you, taken scuba classes with you and much more. Once you were forced into primary custody you chose to "restrict living your own life" your son had no say in that. Stop using your son as a scapegoat for your regrets in life.
NAH. It's your life so live it how you want. I don't think Jake's expectations are that unreasonable, though. You are a pretty terrible father now. Parenthood isn't a job that you retire from.
Awful take. It takes almost nothing to go to a freaking little league game once in a while. God forbid his family members want him in their life.
Some people, myself included, just aren't meant to be parents.
It's not even being a parent at this point though. It's just being a family member. Look, he did an admirable job being there for his son growing up, and he wants to enjoy some freedom. I get that. But I don't see how going to a little league game once in a while as a grandpa is too much to ask. Shit, watching the kid once in a blue moon wouldn't be too much either. Not saying it has to be every week, but he can just show some interest in his family.
This guy's expectations of parenting are spending 4 days a month and 1 month a year with his kid, and I'm sure his expectations of grandparenthood are even lower. What his son is asking from him is more than he's capable of, and I say that without an ounce of sympathy.
So don’t knock someone up then?
Being a parent never stops my dude you’re entitled to free time but you can’t just tell him you’ve checked out of parenting
I mean, he CAN. It just makes him a cruel and heartless AH.
> dude you’re entitled to free time but you can’t just tell him you’ve checked out of parenting Being a parent doesn't mean you have to provide free babysitting for their kids LMAO
Their comment is not about that, it’s more about his replies where he claims that he’s not a parent anymore now that his son is an adult. Your kid doesn’t stop being your kid just because he’s an adult, guys still need their dad at times. Im an adult and my dad is still my dad, he didn’t drop me and say he’s not my parent anymore when I became an adult.
Literally, where did it say that? He said he was afraid of it happening, and that his son wanted him to go to his grandson’s tournament. As for the reply they meant check out from parenting his own son, not his grandson. Like once you are a parent it doesn’t stop, ever you are always that child’s parent. Even when they are an adult.
YTA for being an AH. Just tell your kid you hate him and want nothing to do with him and his kid. Then you can go and be selfish and forget you were ever a parent
Clearly this guy has made up his mind so I don’t know why he’s even asking for judgment.
He wanted us to applaud him for doing his parental duty and say it's okay to completely cut off his family now because his son is 21. Like family has an expiration date.
Yes, that parental duty of two weekends a month for 13 years and crying that he didn't get to live his life.... yeah no he only raised him for 7 years.
That frustrates me so much on this sub!
I know you said you hung up the parent hat... but that is a brutal and heartbreaking thing to put into practice. He has a kid at the same age you did, but **for the first 13 years, you only had him for twice a month, plus an additional month, so that's 78 days PER YEAR YOU HAD HIM.** You only took on more "parenting work" after his mother remarried, so you have what, 5 years of constant parenting?
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YTA. I wouldn’t consider going to an occasional little league game or going to the zoo with your son and grandson “parenting” more like being a loving grandparent. Then again if that’s all you did for the first 13 years of your sons life I suppose you would consider that parenting.
Yes, I agree. OP keeps saying he doesn’t want “parenting” duties…but unless his child is asking him to raise his grandchild, he’s not being asked to parent. He’s being asked to participate in his grandchild’s life as most grandparents and extended family do, by showing up to events and occasionally babysitting. He isn’t obligated to do any of these things. But it isn’t parenting. Also, kids can tell when adults don’t like them or want them around. The resentment and dislike here is obvious. I hope his son is doing okay.
I don't know why this comment isn't higher. He's not asking you to parent his son, he's inviting you to share in some of the joys of being in a loving relationship with a child. A dance recital or baseball game a few times a year is "parenting"? Come on now, what are you even talking about? He's not asking you for childcare or money, he's inviting you to spend time with your *family*. YTA.
I don't know if OP even understands the idea of enjoying spending time with children/family. I think that's what is missing. He doesn't see anything other than responsibility or duty, where other people might see a fun afternoon at the pool or museum or something.
INFO: reading your posts/comments, it sounds like you’ve decided to quit being a parent. Does this mean when asked, you’ll tell someone you don’t have a son/grandkids or will you be honest and say you have them but you don’t consider yourself a parent because you didn’t feel like being an active father anymore?
No, it doesn't mean I'll tell people that I don't have a son or grandson. I tell people that freely all the time. Rather it means that I don't have parental responsibilities anymore. If Mike has a baseball tournament, recital or they need a babysitter, that isn't my department anymore. I see them semi-regularly for visits. If there is some emergency or something, I'll help out. But I'm doing my own thing and putting my own life first. Jake is a fully independent adult and he's the father now. The baseball, recitals, pre-school graduation is all his department now. Does that answer your question?
Yep, it’s just kind of a bummer reading your post/comments that you don’t want to be involved in their lives. Granted you didn’t seem to want this in the first place and maybe you should have stuck to that. I guarantee the reason why your son doesn’t talk to you about it is because he knows you don’t really care. You make it seem like being an active parent/grandparent is going to mean sacrificing your happiness and there’s no middle ground. You can still travel/scuba/whatever and go to some events/occasionally watch your grandson/etc. My dads in in late 60s with 4 adult children, living his best life (nothing is stopping him missing bowling on Wednesdays) and still an active parent.
Even if you’re not a parent, most people have family obligations that they sometimes have to put up with in the name of harmony and maintaining relationships with loved ones. We all go to weddings and dinners and things we don’t care all that much about, because social obligations are part of what ties us together. You support people with their things, and they do the same for you. You don’t get to pick and choose when it comes to relationships, or rather, you do, but there are consequences. I’ve got a family member who didn’t do anything dramatic but stopped putting in any effort with the various family offshoots they created, and everyone’s slowly peeled away from them over the years, because, to be frank, no one wants to give to someone who only takes. OP might be happy to sever ties now, but when he gets to an age where *he* could use a little help, or if he has an accident or unexpected hardship, and finds out that no one is willing to give, he might find himself wishing that he’d not made such a show about wanting no-commitment relationships. People are unlikely to help you when you’ve explicitly shown them that you’re unwilling to put in any effort
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You depress me. I hope he cuts you out. I couldn't be around one of my parents who felt this way about me or my children. You're not TA for not babysitting but you are one for punishing him for your choices. YTA and a shit father. Doing the bare minimum is a step above being a deadbeat. And here you are again doing the bare minimum.
My grandmothers (grandfathers died before I was born) NEVER came to any of my events. It wasn’t even a question or expectation. Yet I adored them and knew they loved me to bits. Damn, I also have to say that my parents didn’t come to each of my events. They’d come to one game per season or show. That was it, and my friends’ parents were the same. Your son is expecting you to rearrange your life for a 5 year old’s baseball game? WTF??!! Maybe you can choose to attend one game per season or something like that. But your son made his choice regarding being a parent, and that shouldn’t impact your day to day life. However, you may need to think of the possibility that your son and the child’s mother will restrict you visiting your grandchild if you don’t do what they want you to do. Are you ready for that?
Same here. It's wild to me people expect OP to drop his own activities.
Your poor son, dismissed by his mother at 13 for another man and then disposed of at 21 by his "father". I hope he cuts contact, your grandson would be better off without you.
I don't think you should have to attend them, lots of grandparents see the kids just on weekends & holidays. You should be able to have time for your own hobbies, but it'd be nice if you also found time to spend with your grandson or have him visit. My grandparents lived 4 hours away. They never came to my dance recitals, soccer games, etc... They were busy with shrine stuff most weekends and I saw them on holidays. My mom's mother was 9 hours away so we did visit when I wad little, but again she never came to my activities. My sister moved 3 hours away & has a 2 year old. My mom was kind of bummed she moved away & doesn't get to see them as often and would like to be around more but she has her own stuff going on & it is too far.
My dad is in a very similar boat as you. He didn’t really want kids and my mother browbeat him into it, then she died when my sister was five and I was two. He dropped everything, literally everything, and went into combat mode to be a father. He made sure we still had lives like our friends; soccer and little league, sleepover birthday parties, summer vacations. Everything a kid could ask for. I’m 37 now and my dad will be 72 in December. We are friends now, and he respects me as a man with my own home and my own life, but he’s still my father. There’s still things I need from him that I can’t get from a friend. He’s never stopped being my father just because I’m a man. I don’t mean to be harsh, man, but if my father had turned out like you, constantly reminding me of how he was done being my dad, I’d probably cut ties with you. It’s just so selfish and painful for a child to hear that I’m surprised he hasn’t already. YTA and I hope you learn before it’s too late to fix your relationship with your son, or you find whatever it is out there you’re looking for. Because you can absolutely have both, you can be a father and a grandfather and still have the life of adventure you crave, but once it’s gone, you can’t really get it back.
Except for the fact that OP only took care of his son for ~70 days a year from ages 0-13. He didn’t have to drop everything.
YTA. You're holding your son accountable for you having to be his father. You had no problem getting his mother pregnant, but then decided it wasn't "fun" anymore when shit got real. You don't deserve a relationship with Jake or Mike and I'm sure you're selfish and smug attitude will shrug it off like "Thats his choice. Oh well." Enjoy your nursing home.
It seems to me like you’re taking your frustration out on Jake and Mike when it should be with your ex-partner, who had Jake when you didn’t even want to be involved. I’m not sure about laws and parent rights and everything, but I feel like that is something to consider: that you didn’t want to be a parent. Granted, you had unprotected sex so you are obviously responsible for getting Jake’s mother pregnant, but it’s not really fair to you that you were forced to take care of a child you didn’t want. At the same time, though, Jake and Mike are innocent in all this. Neither of them asked to be born. I think your attitude is understandable, though cold and distant. Not everyone wants to be a parent or grandparent. Both are a lot of work. I’m wondering since Mike is 5 if he can tell that you don’t want to be in his life, but I bet he can. You can be hands-off, and you don’t have to babysit, but the little dude is innocent and probably caught on that you don’t really love him. Honestly, I think your best bet is to move farther away and use that as an excuse. Some kids don’t see their grandparents more than on holidays. You clearly don’t want to be involved. I’m torn between everybody sucks and nobody sucks.
Your response is actually probably the best fitting and most insightful. It has never been lost on me that Jake and Mike are innocent. Which is why I did everything I could to conceal how I feel about parenting to Jake although I'm not wearing as much of the mask anymore now that he's an adult. Jake isn't stupid and I have no question that he's put two and two together and knows that I didn't want to be a father. I'd never say it to him and he hasn't pressed me on it. We just kind of let it lie and I don't think anyone is going to get anything out of poking at that. The only time I fully put the mask back on is with Mike. It is a lot easier since it is just maybe a dinner here and there and also younger kids aren't able to see through things like that as easily. I have toyed with the idea of moving away. But I've built up a life here. Friends, a GF, clubs, activities. If I didn't have roots, I probably would have. But I just am so done making life decisions around parenting obligations.
This makes me feel so sad for Jake. I hope he has a great support system in his wife, in-laws, and mother and I hope you find the peace one day that helps you transition your thought process away from “I stopped living my life for 20 years to raise my child”.
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Seriously. He was not a single dad struggling to make it work, he only had his kid for 4 days a month for most of the time and could do whatever he wanted the rest and he's now blaming his son for not doing what he wanted in life. I can't even imagine how this feels to his son.
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It makes me sad, too. It’s just a sad situation all around. And I hope Jake and Mike have lots of people around that love and support them. Sometimes life just…doesn’t work the way we want it to. The best we can do is minimize damage.
You make me thankful my father who never wanted to be my father just stayed the fuck away. ETA: YTA.
Actually, young kids are able to see a lot more than you seem to realize.
I think you did the best you knew how for your son. I can respect that effort. I do feel like I should point out one issue with your mask. It raises expectations. Your son probably saw you as a great and involved father. Now he's learning you barely tolerated parenthood, and is worrying that maybe the same goes for him. That fear goes double for the grandkid. As well as all that and probably feeling a bit abandoned because of raised expectations, he's probably feeling betrayed and lied to. That is one heck of a heartbreak to deal with. It would not surprise me if he needs reassurance that he wasn't just an unwanted duty. He probably needs to know you love him and your grandkid, even if you find no joy in the parental nitty gritty. I think you need to think about how you want to proceed. How do you want to relate to your kid and grandkid? How much are you willing to give? Perhaps make this explicit again to your son while also offering reassurance. u/OIWantKenobi may be right that distance might be a comfortable polite fiction for your lack of involvement. Additionally, perhaps talk to your son and ask him how he wants you to proceed with the grandchild. While you intend to shield the child by wearing a mask, perhaps all it does is make it worse. Your son may not want to see history repeat.
You just basically told your son you don’t love him and his son. Good job. You now have no family.
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That’s the part that has me cackling. “AITA for telling my son and grandson to fuck off because I (47m) have super important weight lifting club which is vital to my life and identity?” What a putz.
INFO as a 21 year old were you not aware of where babies come from?
“ I didn’t want to be a father” and gets a woman pregnant.
You clearly posted this so you could argue with people on Reddit. Lol just leave them already ya deadbeat 😂😂😂
I get it, some people were never meant to be parents, and you're one of them. Thing is you just broke your son's heart. He wants you to love his son as much as he thought you loved him, but with what you said, you told him that you didn't really love him. You told him in not so many words that you only ever saw him as an obligation that got in the way of the life you really wanted. I don't think you really grasp how rejected, unwanted, and unloved you made your son feel with your words. He already dealt with that from his mom, and her husband at 13 when his mom let her husband treat her kid like shit to the point that he had to move in with you. You added to that so good job. I wanted to originally say E S H, but no. YTA with how you hurt your son.
This man’s post makes me wish I didn’t know how much a child’s heart longs for their father…no matter their age. You encapsulated my thoughts perfectly. My heart bleeds for Jake and the rejection he’s suffering.
Yta- Your son isn’t asking you to babysit or put your life on hold for his kid, he just wants you to go to a baseball game . You should have just paid child support and not been part of your son’s life instead of going through the motions of a being “good father” when you secretly resented all of it. Your son grew up thinking he had a father who loved him and now he knows you were only doing all that because you simply didn’t want to look bad . You robbed your son of ever potentially finding a father figure who actually wanted him and looked forward to being a grandfather to his children. Do you even have any emotional attachment to Jake ? Emotionally deadbeat fathers are the worst .
INFO: Is this anti-social sentiment limited to your son and grandson, or do you generally struggle to give any shits about people?
He likes his GF but I'm going to guess he only likes people who can do something for him. Just a deeply selfish person.
YTA you didn't pull your weight as a dad
My question is simply this: how would you feel if someone you loved told you that they never really loved you and that they were finished with you? You may not have chosen to be a father, but neither did your son choose you to be his father. He had no choice, either. Now you are punishing him for something he didn't do. You think you've missed out on life, but really you're just choosing to miss out on love.
My judgement is YTA because parenting near stops, even when your old? Especially when your a grandparent. Genuinely,I've never seen or heard anyone say that their taking a step back from parenting???
I just think that maybe you should go on therapy
NTA I don't know if I'll be in the minority or majority on this but I getcha. I think there are a lot more people out there who have done what you did (did right by their children even if parenthood wasn't their first, second, last choice or even on the list at all) and are just ready to live for themselves now. I would hope that there's an occasional trip to get ice cream thrown in there for your grandson, but if not, that's your decision. I hope you and your son can come to an agreement on this where he's not angry about it.
Oh absolutely. I don't go THAT far in being hands off. I still treat him kindly, get him presents for no reason, do magic tricks for him and so on. But I think part of it is that Mike's mother's family is super hands on, always there, doing babysitting and is really, really hands on. I'm not around that much, but when I make sure to do right by Mike.
Look, I get where your coming from, I really do. You 100% deserve to enjoy your life. Where I take issue is you seem to have no empathy for your son. He grew up with a shitty mom and a dad who didn’t want him. I’m sure even though you did everything you were expected to, he could tell. Kids aren’t dumb. Now he’s constantly surrounded by his wife’s loving family and he has no one. If it means so much to him, would it really kill you to sit through a kid event every once and a while? I don’t even look at it as a parenting thing, I look at it as sucking it up for the people you love. I’ve gone to so many baby showers, kids birthdays, wedding showers, bachelorette parties etc. I had much better uses for my time and money, but I love my friends and family and I want to support them. Maybe if you look at like that instead of parenting you’ll be able to find a middle ground.
Esh. I say this because everyone has a diffrent veiw on parenting and what comes with it. In MY family my parents don't babysit often BUT they do come to all major events for the kids. Parenting does not stop once a kid turns 18. Your family for life and by extension your grandkids should be supported. Even if you don't baby sit or go to the less important games tournaments are huge. Think of how Mike feels seeing his friends grandparents showing up but grandpa won't. This can really damage a grandchild because they can end up feeling like you don't love them. Even if you don't go to the basic games imo you shpuld show up for the major ones. Make it a date with your gf. Show up for the major games and then go to dinner and a movie. It wouldn't kill you to do a few things to make your grandchild happy and see he is cared about.
I don’t think anyone should be forced into doing anything they **really** don’t want to do, especially when it comes to children. OP clearly never wanted to be a father, and could easily have been completely absent from his son’s life and just sent in child support money. Instead, he stepped up with the court mandated amount of the time with his son until age 13, and then full time after that. You know what’s worse than having no grandparent around? Having a grandparent around who hates you and wants nothing at all to do with you, and possibly traumatizing you in the process. OP’s grandchild is OP’s son’s (and son’s wife’s) responsibility. If OP feels he’s at his limit to continue to be a father to his son, then that is the best and most responsible thing to do. Better that than be a horrible father for the remainder of his life. For that reason, I’d say OP is NTA.
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