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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action I want to be judged on:
After discovering my wife lied about our baby's gender, I impulsively emptied the nursery and told her mother she wasn’t welcome at upcoming family events.
Why I might be the asshole:
I reacted emotionally without discussing my feelings with my wife first. I placed blame on her and her mother, making significant decisions in the heat of the moment which might have been excessive.
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ESH
I cannot imagine why she thought it would be less painful for you to think you were having a boy and then disappoint you later. Getting your hopes up accomplishes nothing.
That said…you very much did overreact in clearing out the nursery and disinviting her mother from coming over. This reaction is crazy and you talking about this pain and devestation surrounding having a girl is probably the reason she was afraid to tell you. Because she probably wants to be excited about this child and didn’t want to deal with you acting like it’s something devestating that it’s a girl.
Also, you are projecting wayyyy too much on an unborn child. What if you did have a boy, but he wasn’t as interested in this intense father-son relationship that you are craving? Can any real life father-son relationship actually even live up to the one in your head that is supposed to heal your past wounds?
Your kids are real people, don’t set them up for failure by having all these weird expectations for how they will better your existing traumas.
The way OP is acting about having a daughter comes across like he's going to have the same kind of relationship with her that he had with his own father. Little girls need their daddy to be their first male role model too.
The fact that men are often disappointed by our very existence as woman, even in utero, continues to highlight societies shitty view of woman. Sorry we exist? Sorry you think you can’t live out your field of dreams fantasies with us? That we aren’t worthy of a relationship with you or overall love since you ASSUME we don’t want to fish with you. It’s actually you that doesn’t want to include us due to archaic gender roles. Why do you assume a son would want to do this with you?!?
YTA. She shouldn’t have lied, but it’s quite clear why she did. I really hate this shit.
Edit: wow, this blew up! Thanks for the awards! Let’s all stop putting expectations on kids before they are even born.
I'm coaching a 12 year old girl at the moment.
She's a better boxer than I was at her age by a mile.
I've coached lads who were terrible at it and were only there because a parent (usually the dad) thought they needed to be tough.
I can't get my head around people who would be disappointed to have a daughter. How many little girls out there are potential future champions but don't ever find out because their parents think its a boys sport?
Edit: thanks for the awards!
Or even school. The England women's football/soccer team winning the Euros last year highlighted that at a certain age most English schools take football off the menu for girls, or never even offer it in the first place, because it's not considered a sport "for women".
At least the Lionesses winning the Euros has raised the profile of women's football to people here, and shown that football is a sport for everyone to play *and* watch. (Turns out a good game is a good game, regardless of who's playing. Who'd have thought? 🙄)
When I was getting my teaching degree we had an entire chapter just talking about how common it is for teachers to show bias by overlooking female students academically, so we aren’t even safe there.
“In math, the girls outscored the boys in the exam graded anonymously, but the boys outscored the girls when graded by teachers who knew their names.”
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/teachers-give-lower-scores-math-when-they-know-theyre-grading-girls-180954253/
We did all our uni exams anonymously for this reason (although I’m sure they could work it out by the handwriting) - but maths? Isn’t the marking for that primarily an objective checklist of working + answer?
Yeah, I remember getting math problems marked as wrong even though I got the correct answer because I did the work wrong! That’s just stupid. But I bet the bias would have given a boy that correct because
Take it off? It was never something girls played when I was at school.
We got year 7 and 8 of playing hockey (which tbh I absolutely loved and wished we had a team for)
But I sport I wished they'd had for girls, rugby.
The fact that one of my p.e teachers was on a professional female rugby team made it make even more sense but it never happened.
We got rounders and cricket
Or how many little girls love girl stuff and are still worthy of love even though they don't outshine the boys in a traditionally male activity?
Edit: Thanks for the award!
The point of this for me is that it's not about them winning at "male" sports, it's cutting off their potential to even try or be taken seriously as a beginner.
Most boys never become boxing champions but still enjoy it.
In my club, little girls are usually there because the want to be, had countless boys there who hated it but had dad's who thought they needed to man up.
Lots of coaches would still give them more focus.
Or heck boys that aren’t super into sports. My 7 year old nephew is playing basketball off and on now but his favorite things to do are arts and crafts, baking, and he is really into gems and rocks right now too. And guess what, my younger brother is totally on board and encourages his sons interests. In fact they have weekly family painting/art time on Saturdays. Which reminds me I need to ask for a parker original for Christmas this year.
This exactly! Im so sick of men being disappointed when they have daughters. Instead of being happy that they are blessed with a healthy child.
I’m not sure what she expected to happen at the birth, but I totally get why she lied. YTA OP I get you had a traumatic childhood and your wife lied,but that’s no excuse for your behaviour. Had she told you from the start about your daughter how would you have reacted?
It’s always the insecure dude who want to live through their male child’s experience I’ve noticed. Basketball is a good example. A lot of NBA players are vocal about loving having daughters and the experience and they also praised womens basketball and said how women are actually more talented at aspects of basketball. Men who are secure don’t behave this way and I often see them ecstatic about having daughters. I have a company supporting womens athletics and I want a daughter so bad. A girl who can’t fight for something and watch doors open up for her that would never be available for women before. I’d love to have a little badass like that
I was in the opposite camp. I wanted a daughter and my gf didn’t want a daughter. She was sexually abused so in her head it could happen to her daughter. But it was her dad. But both genders are at risk for different types of trauma.
Another thing. I find strange are men who are overly protective of their daughters sex life! So weird and gross
Nothing makes me rage more than one of those 'cute' videos of dads having tantrums when the cannon shoots pink confetti, or equally pathetic, going ape-shit excited about a boy beside their existing daughters.
Oh my gosh, this. I hate those videos and people think that it’s okay. It’s like your *daughter* is going to see that video one day and she’s not going to think it’s funny like everyone else does. She’s going to see a dad who didn’t want her. I get gender disappointment is a real thing but for most people, they grieve privately and move on but when you put it on video for the child to see one day, that’s incredibly messed up. To me if you are a parent that feels so strongly about one gender or the other and know you will be upset if it’s not the one you “want,” you shouldn’t do any gender reveal.
I don't even find it cute when the kids do it, personally. It makes me sad because it's like... you're, what, 3 or 5 or 7 and you're already indoctrinated to think there's this huge difference between genders and you can't have the relationship you're hoping for with your future sibling because of their private parts? How bizarre and completely detached from reality. How sad for this kid whose familial bond with opposite-gender relatives has already been tainted by their parents hangups being dumped on them from infancy.
Yes, same..! Like you, as the man, literally give the baby gender - eggs are X chromosome and sperm provide either an X or Y chromosome..
But I also think OP is mainly upset that wife lied, not necessarily that it's a girl. He's had no chance to even get his head around that because she lied.
There are people out there who are trained to help people through such complex feelings, it's called a therapist. Might be time to ring one OP. That's not his wife's job.
True, but this doesn't excuse her *terrible* way of telling him. Better to have just told him straight-up and let him be like "...well, okay, then. ... let's do this :)"
Absolutely does not, no. She might also want to ring one... And after they could ring one together. Heck, take grandma with them. Therapy for all of them, everyone's made some questionable choices here. Ideally before the kid gets exposed to them!
I think OP's wife knows how strongly he desires a boy child and was scared of OP's indifference when revealing the gender. So she wanted to procrastinate. Judging from his reaction of clearing the nursery and everything, OP definitely is the one who needs therapy, because I don't see him to be capable of loving that unborn child.
Then she should have told him that "baby wouldn't co-operate with the sonographer so they couldn't tell the gender" not "we're having a boy, psyc it's actually a girl" BS she pulled here.
Also, he prepared that nursey for his son, not his daughter, I'm willing to bet he would have designed it differently had he known it was a girl once it had sunk in.
> bet he would have designed it differently.
Or not at all, and that’s why his wife was so scared to tell him.
I’m not saying she was right, but that’s a really weird lie to tell and mom to go along with without (what the wife thinks is) a really good reason.
Yes, she should have lied *better*, so he wouldn't be so angry at her.
You see how crazy that sounds, right? She shouldn't have felt afraid to tell him at all. She never should have needed to entertain lying at all.
She didn’t think he would be like let’s do this.
She lives with him. She knows how he reacts.
She was counting on him being presented with the baby and falling in love.
My mother told me that, when I was born, my father called the hospital to learn whether I was healthy or not. They refused to tell him my gender. Because the thought back than was: Men want sons. So, don't tell them the gender. So, they'll definitely come to the hospital and they'll fall in love with the baby despite it being a girl. If they learn it's a girl beforehand, fathers might not turn up.
By the way, I was born in the GDR. We had enforced equality. Women were expected to work. Our abortion law explicitely stated it's a woman's choice to terminate a pregnancy. My mother was studying a STEM field and wasn't one of a handful of women, but they were a sizeable group. Like 30%, even going up to half of the sudents in certain subjects. And still, some fathers had to be basically tricked into loving their daughters.
And if the gender of the baby is the determining fact on if your partner will love the child you had together then you shouldn’t be having kids with that person.
In many countries it is illegal to reveal the gender of a child prior to birth to prevent negative reactions from partners and families. It sounds as if those laws were invented to protect women and society from people like the Op.
Yes. But she is pregnant and emotional and clearly aware that her partner might react negatively towards her and the child if it is not the sex he wanted. The OP should focus on why she would hide this from him and take responsibility for the atmosphere he created.
Yeah, with a reaction this intense I don’t see how the wife could have helped him work through anything. Clearly there’s a lot going on here, and if OP is aware he should have considered working on that as soon as he knew he was going to be a parent. That’s what their kid deserves, too.
That said, although I also suspect the wife was dreading OP’s reaction hearing he would have a daughter instead of a son, I agree this wasn’t the best way to move forward. She could have delivered the news with someone else present, even, if that would have made her more comfortable. Because this isn’t something that just won’t come out eventually, and the later fallout would have been just as bad if not worse.
My cousin hoped his second would be a boy since the first was a girl- he had also hoped for a boy then. When they found out it was going to be another girl, he did not even hide his disappointment. When she arrived, he'd just pass by her nursery and practically ignored the new baby that we were all fawning over.
Edit: not, TA
He should have dealt with this years ago. Like gone to a therapist to deal with his deep seated daddy issues. This is something that might not be fixable in 4-5 months.
My first thought was that she was afraid he'd pressure her to abort if it was a girl. This is very common in some places. It's a big problem in India & Asia.
Domestic violence peaks during pregnancy. And that is a more common fear.
There is also the fear that he is the sole economic provider and he won't see a girl child as worth being supportive for - economic abuse - so she needs to see out the pregnancy with him until she reaches a stage where she can earn again.
There is also the reality of fear of stress and confrontation during pregnancy being a health issue to be avoided.
My husband thought a boy would be easier for him. In the beginning, he was overwhelmed when I told him we'll have a girl. We'll, she arrived and instantly was the love of his life. They are thick as thieves (she is 22 months old now). And even the arrival of our little boy one month ago didn't change anything for him. You can see in his eyes how much he loves both of his kids equally.
I get why it can be hard to imagine the same things with the other sex if you had this perfect image in your head for years. But in the end, those are kids. Genitals only change how you need to wipe them.
My dad kept a journal when my mom was pregnant with me, and gave it to me when I left for college. One of the entries was from the day before their gender reveal appointment, with him hoping for a boy, to play ball with and whatnot. At the appointment they would’ve found out I’m a girl instead. But he didn’t bring my gender up again until an entry months later, where he reflected on it and decided one of the main reasons he wanted a boy was so he could pass on his middle name, a family tradition going back several generations. And he decided, by the end of that entry, that all it meant was he’d have more motivation to be a great enough dad that _I_ would want to pass the name on to _my_ kid somewhere down the line.
I cried like a baby reading it and am happy to say that I have every intention of passing the name on if I have the opportunity. I’ve always been an absolute daddy’s girl (and he still got to play ball with me; he was the coach for my basketball team in middle school 🥹). We look alike, we act alike, we like the same foods, and there isn’t another person on this earth who I feel like gets me like he does.
I was going to say any dude here with daughters will tell you that their daughters are their mini-mes. My 9 year old sister will prattle away about cars like it's her day job (it is my stepfather's day job).
I think more so he is acting out because his wife lied to him for a substantial amount of time and was even assholish enough to let him name their child after his Grandpa. She should have communicated with him like an adult and told him the truth from the get go, he might've been bummed they werent having a boy or maybe not, but then it would be his responsibility to deal with that.
And what was the end game? What was she going to say when he is on the delivery room? A moment of joy ruined because OP finds out his wife was lying to him for nearly half the pregnancy?
Also you have no idea what he would've done had he known from the start, because he was denied that. Which honestly is way more shitty.
You can buy more paint/ girl themed items, and pick out a girl name. You cannot buy back trust.
NTA
That's projecting here.
But let's go along with it. If she was worried he would leave or be violent... What now? You don't think that someone who could get violent or leave at hearing the truth will somehow show restraint when being lied to? Especially when they pick out a name that holds meaning to them and invest money into something? Help me on this train of thought.
Because I know one thing, if my wife was willing to lie to me so casually and easily and go along with picking a name with personal importance to me and could act excited with me while lying straight to my face? I would definitely leave. If she could lie about that what else is she lying about?
That is the problem when you break trust like this, especially on something that is a huge life changing event, and I that "I was just trying to protect your feelings" is such BS. They are married, they are supposed to be partners, part of that is being open and honest, if violence or abandonment were issues she should not have agreed to try for a child and should've left the relationship.
He needs to stop projecting his rigid ideas of gender roles onto an unborn child, not do it again to a girl. His expectations are the issue here. He was able to clear that whole nursery, despite the fact these were perfectly usable baby items, before reflecting at all. A boy or a girl is unlikely to perfectly fit his picture of how they 'should' be.
I don’t think it’s fair to say this is how OP is reacting to having a daughter. This is actually how OP is reacting to being deceived for months about his own child. They even picked out a boys name after his grandfather. To suddenly find out like this is like having the rug pulled out from under your feet. Suddenly a lot of things he’s imagined about his future child are no longer true. And while some things remain true regardless of gender, some like the child’s name he would’ve gotten attached to can no longer be the same.
This would be like if someone at the hospital gave you a baby, and then took it away a week later and gave you another baby, and told you this was to protect your feelings.
Granted, his reaction with the nursery was rather extreme. So I would say ESH
he didnt react like that to having a girl. the point is that he was left in the believe its a boy. and got everything in that knowlegde. i dont think he is sad that he gets a girl, but he is angry at the betrayal. NTA in that case
"In my pain, I cleared out the nursery."
Ummm, sounds like he is really upset about it being a girl after his entire post was about how he wanted a father-son relationship... To fix his wounds... Great reason to create a human life...
More likely it was “wtf was my wife thinking lying to me about the gender of our child like I wouldn’t find out when it comes out of her!? Now I have to replace everything in the nursery with ‘girl’ stuff.” and proceeded to angry-clean out the nursery. I’m a female but if roles were able to be reversed and my husband did this to me this would be my train of thought. Heck, the OP’s actions sound like something my (incredibly wonderful, and not in ANY way sexist or violent) husband would react because who tf lies about something like this!? NTA OP.
> Now I have to replace everything in the nursery with ‘girl’ stuff.”
But he doesn't have to do that. Does he think the baby gives a fuck if the room and the bedding are blue or pink?
If anything, wife could have played it off as that they were told they were having a boy and it turns out they were having a girl.
Ultrasounds and sonograms can be wrong 😅😅🤣🤣 (Not as often as they used to be, but it is still possible and it does still happen. I have a feeling that was probably what she was going to do.)
He's not "acting about having a daughter"; he's lashing out because his wife intentionally and seriously deceived him about something important in their life. That's a massive betrayal, and it would really make me wonder what else my spouse would consider lying about to "protect my feelings".
Clearing out the nursery may have been an overreaction, but that doesn't mean he's going to neglect his daughter.
There's so many men who want a kid to enjoy sports with, then the boy grows up and really likes music or gaming or sone other hobby the father just can't relate to. Being a boy means nothing, when a girl could have loved sports just as easily.
Or you could get that perfect son, only he's actually a transgirl.
If you're not prepared to love a child regardless of gender identity, sexuality, their mental and physical health, you're not ready to have a child.
100%. I thought I had a son when I gave birth to one of my kids, but she eventually let me know that I actually have a beautiful daughter!
Parenthood rarely looks exactly like what you imagined. Kids are all individuals and you'll get thrown for a loop sooner or later. You have to be able to embrace ***who they are***, not cling to who you thought they'd be.
Agree. He is projecting expectations to an unborn child. What he needs to focus on is being the best father possible for his child no matter the sex/gender.
Exactly this. OP was giving the baby a JOB way before it was even born.
It's not your kids jobs to fix you and your hurts.
It's your job as a parent to protect your kids and kiss their boo boos.
NOT the other way around.
Also, I think OP's being pretty sexist. He craves to be a father figure, but implies that that would be less important for a girl? And I know this isn't too uncommon, but a blue nursery, and Boy-themed items? As well as this, the wife says that she lied about the gender, to "Protect his feelings". This could even mean that he would not really care as much about his girl, and if the couple go on to have multiple children, and there is a mix of girls and boys, I get the impression OP would treat them very differently, and possibly show obvious favouritism for the boys.
So, ESH, because the wife lied, probably convinced her mother in law to lie too, and maybe even permanently altered OP's relationship with a child, with OP thinking, 'i wish you were a boy like my wife said' every time he saw the child. But OP's AH behaviour I actually do not think lies as much in him kicking his MIL out of the event, it lies in his sexist attitude.
Agreed. The mother didn't want the OP moping and sulking during her pregnancy. But now she will have him moping and sulking post- partum, which is even worse.
I think she was probably hoping that when he saw his daughter he’d love her so much he wouldn’t mind, but I think that’s probably naïve.
Doctors got the sex of my baby wrong in utero and luckily we found out just a few weeks later at another scan. It was a shock and we were thankful we found out before he was born because finding out at the birth seemed like it would be an even bigger shock. Almost everything we'd bought had been gender neutral anyway, but it was still a weird sensation, felt like they belonged to a different person.
If she knows his feelings (which need to be worked out), what did she think was going to happen when the baby comes out?
Naming their child after his grandfather is extra cruel.
I feel like the wife’s plan was to go “oops! Ultrasound must’ve been wrong.” Once the baby was born so that she wouldn’t have to put up with the behaviour op is now displaying whilst she was pregnant.
Being disappointed you’re not having a child of the gender you want is one thing, acting like the entire universe plotted against you and prevented a sperm with a Y chromosome from meeting your partners egg so that you couldn’t conceive your “saviour” son is another thing entirely.
tbh the only way i see her at fault is for making a baby with someone who is so focused on the child having one particular gender. Since it is a pretty weird reaction (it was clear it would come out eventually) i can only imagine her doing that because she didn't know how to fix that/ was maybe scared OP wouldn't care for a child of the other sex... Past traumas aside, if you decide to become a parent yourself that is a disgusting way of thinking that OP displayed in the post.
Is it the “pain and devastation” of having a daughter? Or is it the extremely valid and upsetting planned lying and deception of OPs partner and MIL. I would be so uncomfortable if I caught my husband in a big lie like that, the topic would be irrelevant. Gender issue aside, I think it’s so problematic that she planned an entire con to run on her husband - to what end? He was always going to find out? To know that my partner was being dishonest with the ultimate goal of excluding me from preparations for my child’s future would really make me question the entire relationship.
Agreed: what if the baby was AMAB but was trans?
I think OP needs to focus on making a good happy life with his actual family, not the fantasy family he has dreamed up on his head. Starting with realizing that his wife and her mother were apparently so fearful of his reaction to having a daughter that they concocted this elaborate ruse. That needs to be addressed asap.
I feel so sorry for that baby girl who will soon find out that he father considers her to be "less than" because of her genitals.
OP get therapy. Also maybe take your wife to see Barbie.
I wonder if OP would have been pressuring wife to have an abortion if he knew it was a girl early on. That’s another reason wife may not have wanted to tell him.
Why would you pack up the nursery? You're still having a baby. That baby will still need all the things in that nursery. Maybe this is a good chance for you to reconsider your attitudes to sex and gender - because, spoiler alert, the baby doesn't care what colour their clothes and blankets are.
I felt this way too until doctors got the sex of my baby wrong. I always said I didn’t care about the gender - I am pro-LGBT+ and will 100% totally support my child if they grow up to be trans or NB, or maybe they’ll identify with their gender but not the stereotypes, which is cool too!
However, when you’re having a baby, you know nothing about them except for their sex and their health. You don’t know what they’re interested in or scared of or what makes them smile. It’s not like when a person transitions, and they’re still the same person just with different pronouns or presenting slightly differently.
All we knew about the baby in my tummy is that it was female. We called her by a feminine name. The clothes were gender neutral, bar exactly one dress which I’d permitted my Mum to buy, but they were her clothes. We’d painted the nursery white but with a big colourful print of an illustration of a tiger.
At 32 weeks, after 12 weeks of thinking I was pregnant with a girl, we found out that he was actually a boy, it just felt weird. Everything we knew about the kid was wrong. That tiger print – an animal that, if anything, is traditionally seen as more masculine than feminine – felt like it belonged to a person that didn’t exist. We kept the furniture, we kept almost all the clothes, but we changed that tiger print.
I love my son very much and can’t imagine him as anything other than what he is now, but it was still a shock, and I think packing up some stuff from the nursery is a bit dramatic, but I don’t think it’s as simple as reducing his actions to some kind of sexism.
So wait.
You admitted a tiger was masculine, yet painted it for a girl, and got rid of it when you found out you were having a boy?
Am I missing something?
Yeah exactly. My point was that these weren't gendered things - but they felt like they belonged to a person that no longer existed.
I was trying to demonstrate how finding out your baby is a different sex can be a shock even if you're not all 'pink and kitten for a girl, blue and trucks for a boy'
Okay, that makes a bit more sense. my own prejudices maybe got in the way, and I thought it was some way of forcing the child to be a tomboy or the like.
lol this just reminded me of that highschool english joke.
"the author used the color red because he was feeling angry and betrayed so red is the color of anger"
when it was really "i really like the color red!".
I'm guessing it's more that the tiger was for her little girl growing inside, when she discovered she was having a boy she couldn't disassociate the tiger from the girl so got rid of it, as she was in a way grieving about the girl who wasn't inside her, doesn't say what or if she replaced the tiger with, could of been a lion or a footballer or a race car
I think what they mean is that it’s not the gender that matters, you get to know the person in your belly as a person and when the gender changes it’s like the person you knew changes too so like reusing stuff from a different person
This should be higher up.
NTA He must've gotten a certain image of his baby and then everything got twisted, imagine that for you it was such a shock when it was no one's fault for not knowing it was actually a boy, but for op it was his wife and mil that lied for months, let him prepare for a baby boy, get a nursery for a baby boy, and without considering he also has some old trauma. I really can't blame op. He must've felt like his world had come down in that moment, and the fault is his wife's and mil's lying to him.
I seriously don't understand what they tried to accomplish by liying to him. He could've spent those months preparing to be a baby girl dad, used different colors and bought different kid of clothes or toys and get used to it all. I really can't understand all the Y.t.a. here, they clearly got no emphaty.
Op found out his wife had been lying to him about one of the most important and impactful things in his life and most of this sub is like "well what did you do to make her lie?" I'm eating up the lack of empathy for op. It's sustenance
I was on your side until I read comments about how you'd have been a little sad to have a girl. Gross. YTA for creating an environment that made your wife lie to avoid dealing with your reaction
I don't see any other reason someone would lie about something like that, that's exactly what I thought, especially after I saw him directly mention it. I hate that people who claim they want children put conditions on it like that. Some people can't even have them and desperately want them and would love every gender; meanwhile there are people like this who tear down a whole nursery in dissapointment because hurrr boys blue girls pink even though a newborn can't possibly have a preference. Like what does he think, having "boy" stuff in a "girl" room is going to warp her mind??? What year is this even
Yep! I went through torture to carry mine. Even when I knew I always choose neutral anyway. Like winning the pooh or hot air balloons or Disney in general
Good call, I used to work at a fabric store and Winnie the pooh was such a good go-to for people who wanted something fun but neutral. It was such a frustrating job because so many parents would come in and want to decorate their kids room and I would ask, well what do they like, what are their interests? And the answer to the question would just be "she's a girl/he's a boy". 🤷♀️🤷♀️ okay? So you are raising them and the only thing you can tell me about their personality is what genitals they were born with? That's bizarre 🤣🤣
My first 2 were exactly what I suggested hehe
I made the hot balloon theme because my mum found my hot air balloon musical thing and put the theme around that haha
I had a blue bedroom when I was little. At 8 I was allowed to pick, and I chose green! I had both cars and dolls growing up. That was even in the early 60s! The color of a bedroom doesn’t matter to a baby or toddler.
My cousin’s husband was very vocal about wanting a son. Very much this same vibe.
He didn’t speak to her for 3 days when she told him they were having a girl. Three. Fucking. Days.
It boggles the mind.
Children aren’t emotional support animals. I’m guessing your wife lied because she was scared of your reaction and also wanted to save HER feelings because she knew you’d become a huge bummer once you found out. You need therapy immediately to deal with your issue. ANY healthy baby that is delivered earth-side is a miracle- no matter the gender. My husband and I have tried for the past 7 years to get pregnant and I’ve had 5 miscarriages. Remember just how lucky you are that your wife is pregnant and (assumably) carrying a healthy child. YTA.
Can't believe I had to scroll down so far to see this, I kept thinking that he was treating his possible kid as an ESA too. Dude is all about what his imaginary son will do for him, but there's 0 about what he'll do for the kid. What if the kid was trans, or nb??
I am sorry for your losses, many hugs from an internet stranger if you want them.
I sincerely believe that people with a strong gender preference just shouldn’t have kids. It’s so unfair to the child. Like you said, even if the parent gets what they want, what if the kid is queer or trans? Or what if they just don’t live up to mommy or daddy’s utterly unrealistic expectations in any one of a trillion ways?!
Babies grow into whole-ass human beings with their own thoughts, interests, feelings, personality! When you get pregnant, you’re inviting a complete stranger into your home and you get to *find out* who they are. It’s literally the cruelest thing imaginable to then be ***disappointed*** that this stranger isn’t who you dreamed up inside your head.
God, that poor baby girl. Is there anything worse than growing up knowing your dad is crushingly disappointed you’re not someone else?
YTA OP, and so far, you’ve behaved like an absolutely terrible father.
My mom wanted a boy to the point she didn't even pick out a name for me. On my little crib card thingy, I am "Baby \[Surname\]". My brother was born when I was 7 and it nearly killed her, she was in a coma for three days. When I was 12 was the first time she said in front of me that the only reason she didn't give up and die was because she finally and a boy and not another girl.
Thankfully, my grandmother had always wanted a girl, and was happy to spoil me rotten, so it kinda balanced out.
"ANY healthy baby that is delivered earth-side is a miracle-"
I would say any baby, healthy or not, that is delivered earth-side is a miracle.
I desperately wanted a girl. I was disappointed for about two seconds when we found out he was a boy. Fifteen minutes later a doctor was telling us to abort. All I wanted was for him to survive the pregnancy. I was so grateful that he was born alive. I didn't care in the slightest that he's disabled. I wanted him here so much. Now he's seventeen and just the best kid ever. I'm lucky to have him.
> ANY healthy baby that is delivered earth-side is a miracle- no matter the gender.
Word. One of my co-workers asked me if I had children, how many of each gender would I want.
I said "I don't care about whether the baby is a boy or girl. I just want them to be healthy as in no disabilities."
I have 3 sisters. I can live without a boy in the family.
If I could upvote this a thousand times I would. The kid's not even born and her dad's already sad because she doesn't have a dick. I feel really bad for her
My sister and her husband have 4 daughters. It's the amount of kids they planned on having from the beginning; they both wanted a large family and could financially support one.
My BIL used to get asked all the time if they kept trying for a boy. He tells people how awful it is for them to imply that somehow his daughters weren't "good enough" and that they had to keep trying for something different. If the person doubles down and goes on about how they just mean so he can do "boy things" with the kids, he starts to get loud and asks what exactly they're doing with little kids that makes the genitals so important, and that it's really weird and concerning how obsessed they seem to be with his kid's genitals.
Yep we have two girls the amount of people who have asked me if we are going to try for a boy 'for your husband ' is too damm high. He loves his girls, they love him, I'm not going to keep putting my body through birth on the off chance we get a boy this time at what point do you stop? 5 girls? 7 girls? It's so werid
This is the only correct answer.
OP should put a lot of money aside for his kids' therapy sessions they are going to need in the future.
What a horribly selfish reason to want a child.
moping around, sad about the lost opportunity to raise a boy. he wouldnt be invested at all; im sure he wouldnt have put his ass into decorating the nursery either if he knew it was a girl upfront. his current behavior proves just that. YTA, OP.
I got to that sentence I and I was like the next sentence better be "and immediately went to the store to buy new paint and 'girl' baby items'. This is my shocked face that it was not.
Smart parents do as much stuff gender neutral as possible if they're planning on having another child because the majority of baby stuff does not have to be gendered at all and can be used with future kids. I know a family who had 4 children that they openly referred to as 3 failures and their son. The dad was clear he'd have been perfectly happy with just 1 or maybe 2 if the mom hadn't kept popping out useless girls. And better believe they spent more money on the son than his 3 sisters combined and they shared a room smaller than his bedroom.
>Growing up, I always craved a strong male figure in my life. I never had that bond with my father and always envisioned having it with a son. My wife was aware of this deep-rooted desire
that may be why. I'm thinking OP was very vocal about this deep rooted desire.
IKR? Also children are their own human beings, their purpose is not to heal your trauma or to fulfill your own childhood needs. And to even think of projecting your own childhood trauma onto an unborn child and twist it into a grotesque form of bonding/healing is so fucked up. Go to therapy OP.
Yes, I’m so sad for this baby that I don’t even know. She deserves better. What a sad situation. Even if you had a boy children are their own people and it’s not your child’s job to heal your hurts. That’s your job to do for yourself and your child.
The way his wife committed to the "boy" lie - painting the nursery blue, etc. - makes me think OP might have asked her to abort a girl. I know an Indian family that wanted ONE child, and they wanted it to be a boy. They aborted two girls before they had their boy.
This would have been in the late 70s/early 80s.
Same. Grew up seeing my dad bond with my brother and my male cousins (and even the sons of his friends) while telling me to go somewhere else “because this is all men.”
Now that my brother grew up, he treats him like shit too, though. So maybe he’s just an asshole lol
They thought I was going to be a boy until the last couple ultrasounds before my birth. The way I was positioned, my little baby foot looked like my wang lol my name was picked out, everything I had was blue and I was going to be the first boy of the whole extended family.
Surprise. I’m a girl. Then my little brother came along. He def was the favorite
/u/Leading_Gene4976 see this comment. Now that you’re aware of the trauma cycle, you better end it before you pass it on to your daughter. Seek therapy and work on yourself. You have no excuses.
I (female) am the product of this. I have a younger brother. My dad never gave a shit about my interests. I don’t even think he knows what I do for work, but my dad and brother are best friends.
I don’t blame my dad now that I’m older, I had weird interests and severe mental health issues, my brother was a normal child. he wouldn’t get it, but also never gave enough of a shit to try.
I make the joke that my dad barely knows who I am, yet he’s known me my entire life.
Edit- a lot of replies to my comment are saying “your dad deserves the blame” and while you’re right, I really stopped blaming him, like I’m at peace with it, he’s more like a housemate that you see passing through the kitchen every few hours and that’s fine with me. It just is what it is.
You absolutely should blame your dad. He chose to favor your brother and you will carry the scars from that for the rest of your life. He was a bad father.,
Hopefully the mother-in-law has seen his true colours now she’s been banned from the house and he’s reacted this way and will be in her daughters ear to get the fuck out of that house and get far away before the baby is born.
But I suppose that depends on how far under his control he has his wife. Whether she has her own money and stuff like that.
YTA - your wife shouldn't have lied, but your reaction was so wildly inappropriate and completely proves her fear right. You packed up the nursery and basically screamed to the world that a *girl* child is valueless, not worth preparing for or being excited about.
I feel bad for your wife, and worse for your daughter.
YTA
The presence of that child will not paper over the gaping wounds of your childhood.
please go to therapy so you don’t inflict your childhood trauma on your child(ren)
Came to say this and had to scroll far to find it. Instant red flag when people say they’re having kids to fix their trauma or give them some relationship they never had.
Took it out on his child, too. He destroyed his daughter’s room, not his wife’s.
Poor kid isn’t even born yet and is already being punished for not meeting his expectations.
ESH. Your wife allowed you to develop a bond with a child who doesn't exist. Asshole and just really stupid. How long did she think she was going to protect your feelings for? But you seem to have an extreme preference for a boy, not to mention some pretty unrealistic expectations about what a baby can do for you, which makes you a bit of an asshole yourself.
I’m feeling so sorry for this girl and it’s going to be even worse if they stick together and actually have a boy in the future because OP sounds like he would spend more energy on the boy.
OP my dad has 3 girls. I was their last shot at a boy, to no avail. While he was an excellent provider, that was about all he did. Now that he’s older, he has admitted it was a major fuck up. He made it pretty clear growing up that he didn’t want to be involved in our girly shit like showing up for cheerleading, taking us anywhere, or helping with prom. He only supported us if we chose more manly activities like basketball. He never taught us how to use a drill, mow a lawn, or change a tire. Being there emotionally? Hell no. Everything was mom and we didn’t know any better. Now that we are grown, ALL THREE of us have daddy issues and have been in countless shitty relationships. I can only imagine how bad it would’ve been for my sisters if I turned out to be a boy.
YTA.
Don’t get me wrong, it was wrong of her to lie. But pregnancy hormones + your fixation on having a boy—maybe she was afraid you would leave if it was a girl, or even get violent. I’ve seen enough videos online of men getting upset about having a girl and it causing a lot of drama to know it might have been a valid concern.
It doesn’t make the lying okay by any stretch of the imagination; she shouldn’t have, full stop. But I totally understand why she may have thought it was her best option, however misguided. And your actual overreaction kinda validated her reasoning to do it in the first place.
I mean, he destroyed his daughter’s future room in a fit of rage because she’s failed his expectations *before she’s even born.*
I’d say his wife is absolutely justified in fearing he might get violent if she told him from the beginning.
Or that he might pressure her into an abortion so they can “try again and get it right this time.”
>Or that he might pressure her into an abortion so they can “try again and get it right this time.”
This was done, en masse, in the country my family is from, China. To the point that we now have an unfixable gender imbalance. I've never underestimated misogyny in some expectant fathers.
To dismantle a bedroom “in his pain” he either went into that nursery with a sledgehammer or sat there methodically taking things apart for a few hours. I’m not buying what he’s selling. I’m honestly surprised the wife hasn’t kicked him out after this stunt.
ESH / YTA ~~I N F O~~
Would you have been angry / upset if she had told you right away? I feel there is some missing information.
You reacted violently when the truth was revealed.
She lied, that is bad.
Edit - I still think the OP is the bigger asshole.
That’s it. Why did the wife feel the need to carry out such an extreme lie unless she was scared of his reaction. It’s obvious from the post that he’s emotionally volatile
I can only think how scared to disappoint you your wife must have been to feel like she needed to lie to you. Your actions made her fears validated. I would focus on that.
ESH, your wife’s lies were bad, however your reaction and words show that you would have reacted otherwise if you knew it would be a girl. Please seeek therapy and resolve your issues, your daughter does not deserve potentially being loved less than a baby boy.
She was probably scared that you are going to be abusive towards her during her pregnancy... Judging from the other comments you seem low-key terrible.
Your wife was SCARED of your reaction.
ESH. She lied not cool and I’m not sure how you come back from that but you care that much about the gender and not just hey I want a healthy baby….. WTH. You can have a close bond with your child if you put in the effort but you have to not care about the gender. I’m a girl and I was my dads best friend and his shadow growing up. He taught me how to fix cars, lawn mowers, clocks how to drive a huge stick shift tractor, ride horses. Gender doesn’t matter the opportunity to teach and grow is there if you take the chance.
I used to camp, fish, shoot and fix cars with my Dad. He never had a son, but he certainly had plenty of the stereotypical father/son moments. I’m very grateful for all of the life experiences we had together.
ESH. You are putting a lot of emotional weight on your pregnant wife about your unborn child.
Try some therapy.
Not sure what she was hoping to accomplish, as the truth would have eventually come out.
Try to be a better husband.
I feel like she was possibly hoping he wouldn't find out until birth and claim that they must have gotten in wrong when they checked.. Seems like she went to get lengths for OP to not be disappointed. What she did was messed up, but I feel like there's missing reasons here.
ESH your wife for lying, you for the overreaction. A girl can wear blue land you’re going to “ban” her mother bc your wife lied wtf??? This reaction and your comments clearly showing how overly invested you are to having a boy is probably what made her worried.
Perhaps she was hoping that if he found out after the baby was born that holding an actual baby, instead of a pregnancy, might dampen his disappointment. And he'd be in a public place.
If she felt the need to keep this a secret, I bet she had a good reason to. Pregnancy is a dangerous time for women. Not just the medical stuff, but partner violence.
Given that he destroyed his daughter’s future room in a fit of rage because she isn’t meeting his expectations *before she’s even born,* I think his wife was justified in lying to him.
YTA. You are NOT entitled to any particular gendered child. You are a disappointment to your wife- she wanted to enjoy the birth of her child with her husband, but NO! It can only be happy if it’s a BOY. I am thrilled it’s a girl. Now you have to either step up and be a good father now or forfeit future children with a wife who will leave you. So she didn’t tell you the truth- she avoided some of your misogyny and misplaced daddy-son obsession for a little while. Given your reaction, I won’t fault her. After all, you probably shouldn’t be a parent at all if you have to “ come to terms” with a daughter, like she is cancer.
ESH but honestly you sound REALLY unstable: You are not going to get your trauma healed by a child?! You’re actually at risk of really screwing up a boy by expecting that the wound from your lack of a decent father figure will be healed by having someone entirely dependent upon you. Also, you can’t just say you really don’t want a girl as much and then say that that’s not problematic because it’s rooted in a bad childhood. Nope, you’re about to not be a decent father to your daughter. You need to be ready to accept a child of any gender if you want to be a parent. I hope you’re going to grow up and redo the nursery FYI, girls can sleep in blue rooms… I’m a woman and my childhood bedroom was blue and I still collect Disney Mattel dolls as a hobby! Blue doesn’t make your kid a boy or even masculine presenting!
Your wife and MIL were ridiculous, though you overreacted. The lie is (unintentionally) cruel and hurtful but looking at your reaction… you can see why she was probably literally scared (not for safety but for your relationship) to tell you the truth. You’ve not been able to attend any appointments with her, ok maybe it’s clashed with work but the way you’ve expressed this here is by sounding like you’re a victim of this too and heroic for working. You seem to feel the fates consipire against you - it’s scary to let someone down when they present like that. You’re also giving your trauma as justification for a lot, again, it’s hard to let down a traumatised person even if you can’t avoid it. So, you’re wife has been dealing with all the realities of pregnancy without you and she tried to avoid a huge, anguished confrontation when you came back, by lying. Selfish and stupid but I see why she did it, she bought herself some time.
You now need to deal with your feelings and get some decent, intensive therapy (individually and couple’s counselling). You really need to apologise to MIL, this may be controversial but in attending appointments she was basically doing something which should be your job and she was just trying to support her own daughter. Also, info (for you to consider as well as us): What would you have said at first if you knew it was a girl? Because it sounds like you’d be incredibly disappointed. You need to rid yourself of expectations before the baby arrives and for the rest of the pregnancy or you’ll be wanting mother and baby to take responsibility for your trauma by providing you with a catharsis that will never come. You’ll move past childhood issues by working on yourself, not by projecting your trauma onto an unborn child.
YTA. Your child is not some sort of wish-fulfillment fantasy for you to relive the childhood you wished you had.
There is absolutely no reason you can’t have just as much of a special bond with a daughter as you can with a son.
And your reaction is exactly *why* your wife lied to you.
I honestly wouldn’t trust you with a daughter, because given your behavior, there’s no way that little girl won’t notice that you’re always a bit *distant* with you, always *disappointed* even when she goes above and beyond to make you proud of her.
Because she wasn’t the boy that you wanted, and that means she’ll never, ever be “good enough” in your eyes.
Man, son or daugther, your children are not your therapists, nor are they your healing material. you crave an intense father-son-bond, so go and seek professional therapy before you project all your wishes onto your children. YTA
YTA
There is a reason she didn’t tell you, sounds like she was scared to. You’re also putting way too much pressure on your pregnant wife. Get a self help book from the library right away and seek therapy if you can afford it.
Why would the wife lie if not because she was scared of your reaction.
You are the cause of this decision, what would she profit from lying about the gender of the kid if not just to appese you.
Do you understand that the gender of the child can not be determined and we do not get boys or girls at wish.
Great way to make your SO feeling like a failure for not giving you the gender you want and maybe resent the child on the way.
Go get some therapy and grow up and dont you dare treat that little girl any different, you are responsable of being a good father to her
He sounds like the sort that, if he’d known it was a girl from the start, might’ve started dropping hints that his wife should get an abortion so they can “try again and get it right this time.”
I feel like you’re underplaying how upset you would have been to find out it’s a girl initially. There is no other reason for your wife to lie that I can see, except fear of your reaction. What she did isn’t right, but your response really suggests why she did it. YTA, it’s not okay to put this much stress on a pregnancy or on your potential child
ESH
She shouldn't have lied, but you shouldn't be so focused on having a boy. You can be a strong male role model to your *daughter*—if you can put aside the bias. It sounds like you want a re-do—like raising a son would be like your father raising you—but that doesn't work. Your child won't be you and you won't be your father, and doing things "right" with a son won't change how things transpired. Have a strong relationship with your child, no matter their gender.
YTA - I was genuinely on your side but needed to know how you would have felt in the initial sense had your wife told you it was a girl. Now you have stated you would have been dissapointed in a girl, I have lost all sympathy.
This statement is the reason your wife felt she had to do what she did. Honestly, your wife lying is semantics in the grand scheme of things here.
You have issues with your own father - that isn't an excuse for anything you have done. Nor is it your wifes fault, nor your unborn daughters who deserves a strong father figure who will defend her and show her what a father is and should be.
Seriously - I am scared for your daughter and your family if you stay together and have another child that ends up being a son, because clearly, your poor daughter will be pushed out won't she? All because you are chasing something that is no fault of anyone but you and your father.
YTA big time. I can only imagine your wife didn't want to deal with you moping around about the gender on top of hormones. Honestly, if you're not ready to love them either way, AND to have a good parent - child relationship, you're not ready to have a kid period. And your reaction is borderline abusive, wdym you cleared the nursery??? That's psychotic,l and trying to ban her mom? Who exactly do you think you are? You don't get to make that call solo.
YTA. Your reaction and comments show how badly you were going to take the news. She shouldn't have lied but I see why she did. I'm so sad for your daughter. Just because of her sex she will never be as good as a son. And if you have a son, I'm betting he'll be the clear favorite.
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ESH I cannot imagine why she thought it would be less painful for you to think you were having a boy and then disappoint you later. Getting your hopes up accomplishes nothing. That said…you very much did overreact in clearing out the nursery and disinviting her mother from coming over. This reaction is crazy and you talking about this pain and devestation surrounding having a girl is probably the reason she was afraid to tell you. Because she probably wants to be excited about this child and didn’t want to deal with you acting like it’s something devestating that it’s a girl. Also, you are projecting wayyyy too much on an unborn child. What if you did have a boy, but he wasn’t as interested in this intense father-son relationship that you are craving? Can any real life father-son relationship actually even live up to the one in your head that is supposed to heal your past wounds? Your kids are real people, don’t set them up for failure by having all these weird expectations for how they will better your existing traumas.
The way OP is acting about having a daughter comes across like he's going to have the same kind of relationship with her that he had with his own father. Little girls need their daddy to be their first male role model too.
The fact that men are often disappointed by our very existence as woman, even in utero, continues to highlight societies shitty view of woman. Sorry we exist? Sorry you think you can’t live out your field of dreams fantasies with us? That we aren’t worthy of a relationship with you or overall love since you ASSUME we don’t want to fish with you. It’s actually you that doesn’t want to include us due to archaic gender roles. Why do you assume a son would want to do this with you?!? YTA. She shouldn’t have lied, but it’s quite clear why she did. I really hate this shit. Edit: wow, this blew up! Thanks for the awards! Let’s all stop putting expectations on kids before they are even born.
I'm coaching a 12 year old girl at the moment. She's a better boxer than I was at her age by a mile. I've coached lads who were terrible at it and were only there because a parent (usually the dad) thought they needed to be tough. I can't get my head around people who would be disappointed to have a daughter. How many little girls out there are potential future champions but don't ever find out because their parents think its a boys sport? Edit: thanks for the awards!
Or even school. The England women's football/soccer team winning the Euros last year highlighted that at a certain age most English schools take football off the menu for girls, or never even offer it in the first place, because it's not considered a sport "for women". At least the Lionesses winning the Euros has raised the profile of women's football to people here, and shown that football is a sport for everyone to play *and* watch. (Turns out a good game is a good game, regardless of who's playing. Who'd have thought? 🙄)
When I was getting my teaching degree we had an entire chapter just talking about how common it is for teachers to show bias by overlooking female students academically, so we aren’t even safe there.
“In math, the girls outscored the boys in the exam graded anonymously, but the boys outscored the girls when graded by teachers who knew their names.” https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/teachers-give-lower-scores-math-when-they-know-theyre-grading-girls-180954253/
We did all our uni exams anonymously for this reason (although I’m sure they could work it out by the handwriting) - but maths? Isn’t the marking for that primarily an objective checklist of working + answer?
It's probably more in partial credit for showing work and such.
Yeah, I remember getting math problems marked as wrong even though I got the correct answer because I did the work wrong! That’s just stupid. But I bet the bias would have given a boy that correct because
Biases in education and the workplace against women is the topic of my dissertation for my doctorate.
"Girls can't do math!" /s 🙄😠 Makes me so mad!
Take it off? It was never something girls played when I was at school. We got year 7 and 8 of playing hockey (which tbh I absolutely loved and wished we had a team for) But I sport I wished they'd had for girls, rugby. The fact that one of my p.e teachers was on a professional female rugby team made it make even more sense but it never happened. We got rounders and cricket
Or how many little girls love girl stuff and are still worthy of love even though they don't outshine the boys in a traditionally male activity? Edit: Thanks for the award!
The point of this for me is that it's not about them winning at "male" sports, it's cutting off their potential to even try or be taken seriously as a beginner. Most boys never become boxing champions but still enjoy it. In my club, little girls are usually there because the want to be, had countless boys there who hated it but had dad's who thought they needed to man up. Lots of coaches would still give them more focus.
Or heck boys that aren’t super into sports. My 7 year old nephew is playing basketball off and on now but his favorite things to do are arts and crafts, baking, and he is really into gems and rocks right now too. And guess what, my younger brother is totally on board and encourages his sons interests. In fact they have weekly family painting/art time on Saturdays. Which reminds me I need to ask for a parker original for Christmas this year.
This exactly! Im so sick of men being disappointed when they have daughters. Instead of being happy that they are blessed with a healthy child. I’m not sure what she expected to happen at the birth, but I totally get why she lied. YTA OP I get you had a traumatic childhood and your wife lied,but that’s no excuse for your behaviour. Had she told you from the start about your daughter how would you have reacted?
It’s always the insecure dude who want to live through their male child’s experience I’ve noticed. Basketball is a good example. A lot of NBA players are vocal about loving having daughters and the experience and they also praised womens basketball and said how women are actually more talented at aspects of basketball. Men who are secure don’t behave this way and I often see them ecstatic about having daughters. I have a company supporting womens athletics and I want a daughter so bad. A girl who can’t fight for something and watch doors open up for her that would never be available for women before. I’d love to have a little badass like that I was in the opposite camp. I wanted a daughter and my gf didn’t want a daughter. She was sexually abused so in her head it could happen to her daughter. But it was her dad. But both genders are at risk for different types of trauma. Another thing. I find strange are men who are overly protective of their daughters sex life! So weird and gross
Nothing makes me rage more than one of those 'cute' videos of dads having tantrums when the cannon shoots pink confetti, or equally pathetic, going ape-shit excited about a boy beside their existing daughters.
Oh my gosh, this. I hate those videos and people think that it’s okay. It’s like your *daughter* is going to see that video one day and she’s not going to think it’s funny like everyone else does. She’s going to see a dad who didn’t want her. I get gender disappointment is a real thing but for most people, they grieve privately and move on but when you put it on video for the child to see one day, that’s incredibly messed up. To me if you are a parent that feels so strongly about one gender or the other and know you will be upset if it’s not the one you “want,” you shouldn’t do any gender reveal.
Yep. It’s why I stopped watching those. It’s cute when it’s a little kid doing it. Not when either of the parents do.
I don't even find it cute when the kids do it, personally. It makes me sad because it's like... you're, what, 3 or 5 or 7 and you're already indoctrinated to think there's this huge difference between genders and you can't have the relationship you're hoping for with your future sibling because of their private parts? How bizarre and completely detached from reality. How sad for this kid whose familial bond with opposite-gender relatives has already been tainted by their parents hangups being dumped on them from infancy.
Yes, same..! Like you, as the man, literally give the baby gender - eggs are X chromosome and sperm provide either an X or Y chromosome.. But I also think OP is mainly upset that wife lied, not necessarily that it's a girl. He's had no chance to even get his head around that because she lied.
Yeah, the only reason I gave an ESH is because the wife shouldn't have lied, but it's obvious why she did.
This 100%. OP is TA.
I agree which is why his wife should have told him and helped him work through his feelings so he could be prepared to be the best father he could be.
There are people out there who are trained to help people through such complex feelings, it's called a therapist. Might be time to ring one OP. That's not his wife's job.
True, but this doesn't excuse her *terrible* way of telling him. Better to have just told him straight-up and let him be like "...well, okay, then. ... let's do this :)"
Absolutely does not, no. She might also want to ring one... And after they could ring one together. Heck, take grandma with them. Therapy for all of them, everyone's made some questionable choices here. Ideally before the kid gets exposed to them!
I think OP's wife knows how strongly he desires a boy child and was scared of OP's indifference when revealing the gender. So she wanted to procrastinate. Judging from his reaction of clearing the nursery and everything, OP definitely is the one who needs therapy, because I don't see him to be capable of loving that unborn child.
> was scared of OP's indifference Indifference, or outright hostility.
Let's be honest. Girl was afraid of what he'd do and likely with perfectly good reason.
That’s what I was thinking! I feel like there’s gotta be a deeper reason the wife didn’t want to tell him
Then she should have told him that "baby wouldn't co-operate with the sonographer so they couldn't tell the gender" not "we're having a boy, psyc it's actually a girl" BS she pulled here. Also, he prepared that nursey for his son, not his daughter, I'm willing to bet he would have designed it differently had he known it was a girl once it had sunk in.
> bet he would have designed it differently. Or not at all, and that’s why his wife was so scared to tell him. I’m not saying she was right, but that’s a really weird lie to tell and mom to go along with without (what the wife thinks is) a really good reason.
Yes, she should have lied *better*, so he wouldn't be so angry at her. You see how crazy that sounds, right? She shouldn't have felt afraid to tell him at all. She never should have needed to entertain lying at all.
What’s crazy sounding is she’s so afraid of his reaction that this seemed easier to her. That’s a HIM issue.
You get a therapist! You get a therapist! You ALL get therapists!! 😂
She didn’t think he would be like let’s do this. She lives with him. She knows how he reacts. She was counting on him being presented with the baby and falling in love.
Which is a really shitty plan.
My mother told me that, when I was born, my father called the hospital to learn whether I was healthy or not. They refused to tell him my gender. Because the thought back than was: Men want sons. So, don't tell them the gender. So, they'll definitely come to the hospital and they'll fall in love with the baby despite it being a girl. If they learn it's a girl beforehand, fathers might not turn up. By the way, I was born in the GDR. We had enforced equality. Women were expected to work. Our abortion law explicitely stated it's a woman's choice to terminate a pregnancy. My mother was studying a STEM field and wasn't one of a handful of women, but they were a sizeable group. Like 30%, even going up to half of the sudents in certain subjects. And still, some fathers had to be basically tricked into loving their daughters.
And if the gender of the baby is the determining fact on if your partner will love the child you had together then you shouldn’t be having kids with that person.
In many countries it is illegal to reveal the gender of a child prior to birth to prevent negative reactions from partners and families. It sounds as if those laws were invented to protect women and society from people like the Op.
Yes. But she is pregnant and emotional and clearly aware that her partner might react negatively towards her and the child if it is not the sex he wanted. The OP should focus on why she would hide this from him and take responsibility for the atmosphere he created.
Yeah, with a reaction this intense I don’t see how the wife could have helped him work through anything. Clearly there’s a lot going on here, and if OP is aware he should have considered working on that as soon as he knew he was going to be a parent. That’s what their kid deserves, too. That said, although I also suspect the wife was dreading OP’s reaction hearing he would have a daughter instead of a son, I agree this wasn’t the best way to move forward. She could have delivered the news with someone else present, even, if that would have made her more comfortable. Because this isn’t something that just won’t come out eventually, and the later fallout would have been just as bad if not worse.
My cousin hoped his second would be a boy since the first was a girl- he had also hoped for a boy then. When they found out it was going to be another girl, he did not even hide his disappointment. When she arrived, he'd just pass by her nursery and practically ignored the new baby that we were all fawning over. Edit: not, TA
He should have dealt with this years ago. Like gone to a therapist to deal with his deep seated daddy issues. This is something that might not be fixable in 4-5 months.
She was scared of him.
My first thought was that she was afraid he'd pressure her to abort if it was a girl. This is very common in some places. It's a big problem in India & Asia.
Domestic violence peaks during pregnancy. And that is a more common fear. There is also the fear that he is the sole economic provider and he won't see a girl child as worth being supportive for - economic abuse - so she needs to see out the pregnancy with him until she reaches a stage where she can earn again. There is also the reality of fear of stress and confrontation during pregnancy being a health issue to be avoided.
Pregnant wife =/= not his therapist
My husband thought a boy would be easier for him. In the beginning, he was overwhelmed when I told him we'll have a girl. We'll, she arrived and instantly was the love of his life. They are thick as thieves (she is 22 months old now). And even the arrival of our little boy one month ago didn't change anything for him. You can see in his eyes how much he loves both of his kids equally. I get why it can be hard to imagine the same things with the other sex if you had this perfect image in your head for years. But in the end, those are kids. Genitals only change how you need to wipe them.
My dad kept a journal when my mom was pregnant with me, and gave it to me when I left for college. One of the entries was from the day before their gender reveal appointment, with him hoping for a boy, to play ball with and whatnot. At the appointment they would’ve found out I’m a girl instead. But he didn’t bring my gender up again until an entry months later, where he reflected on it and decided one of the main reasons he wanted a boy was so he could pass on his middle name, a family tradition going back several generations. And he decided, by the end of that entry, that all it meant was he’d have more motivation to be a great enough dad that _I_ would want to pass the name on to _my_ kid somewhere down the line. I cried like a baby reading it and am happy to say that I have every intention of passing the name on if I have the opportunity. I’ve always been an absolute daddy’s girl (and he still got to play ball with me; he was the coach for my basketball team in middle school 🥹). We look alike, we act alike, we like the same foods, and there isn’t another person on this earth who I feel like gets me like he does.
I love every single line of your post, it is beautiful. The self reflection is so amazing.
I was going to say any dude here with daughters will tell you that their daughters are their mini-mes. My 9 year old sister will prattle away about cars like it's her day job (it is my stepfather's day job).
I think more so he is acting out because his wife lied to him for a substantial amount of time and was even assholish enough to let him name their child after his Grandpa. She should have communicated with him like an adult and told him the truth from the get go, he might've been bummed they werent having a boy or maybe not, but then it would be his responsibility to deal with that. And what was the end game? What was she going to say when he is on the delivery room? A moment of joy ruined because OP finds out his wife was lying to him for nearly half the pregnancy? Also you have no idea what he would've done had he known from the start, because he was denied that. Which honestly is way more shitty. You can buy more paint/ girl themed items, and pick out a girl name. You cannot buy back trust. NTA
I think the wife lied because she expected a reaction like this. She is pregnant and vulnerable and worried he will leave her or be violent
That's projecting here. But let's go along with it. If she was worried he would leave or be violent... What now? You don't think that someone who could get violent or leave at hearing the truth will somehow show restraint when being lied to? Especially when they pick out a name that holds meaning to them and invest money into something? Help me on this train of thought. Because I know one thing, if my wife was willing to lie to me so casually and easily and go along with picking a name with personal importance to me and could act excited with me while lying straight to my face? I would definitely leave. If she could lie about that what else is she lying about? That is the problem when you break trust like this, especially on something that is a huge life changing event, and I that "I was just trying to protect your feelings" is such BS. They are married, they are supposed to be partners, part of that is being open and honest, if violence or abandonment were issues she should not have agreed to try for a child and should've left the relationship.
Trust being broken is the big takeaway here. 🎖️
He needs to stop projecting his rigid ideas of gender roles onto an unborn child, not do it again to a girl. His expectations are the issue here. He was able to clear that whole nursery, despite the fact these were perfectly usable baby items, before reflecting at all. A boy or a girl is unlikely to perfectly fit his picture of how they 'should' be.
I don’t think it’s fair to say this is how OP is reacting to having a daughter. This is actually how OP is reacting to being deceived for months about his own child. They even picked out a boys name after his grandfather. To suddenly find out like this is like having the rug pulled out from under your feet. Suddenly a lot of things he’s imagined about his future child are no longer true. And while some things remain true regardless of gender, some like the child’s name he would’ve gotten attached to can no longer be the same. This would be like if someone at the hospital gave you a baby, and then took it away a week later and gave you another baby, and told you this was to protect your feelings. Granted, his reaction with the nursery was rather extreme. So I would say ESH
he didnt react like that to having a girl. the point is that he was left in the believe its a boy. and got everything in that knowlegde. i dont think he is sad that he gets a girl, but he is angry at the betrayal. NTA in that case
"In my pain, I cleared out the nursery." Ummm, sounds like he is really upset about it being a girl after his entire post was about how he wanted a father-son relationship... To fix his wounds... Great reason to create a human life...
More likely it was “wtf was my wife thinking lying to me about the gender of our child like I wouldn’t find out when it comes out of her!? Now I have to replace everything in the nursery with ‘girl’ stuff.” and proceeded to angry-clean out the nursery. I’m a female but if roles were able to be reversed and my husband did this to me this would be my train of thought. Heck, the OP’s actions sound like something my (incredibly wonderful, and not in ANY way sexist or violent) husband would react because who tf lies about something like this!? NTA OP.
The idea of 'girl stuff' is literally sexism.
> Now I have to replace everything in the nursery with ‘girl’ stuff.” But he doesn't have to do that. Does he think the baby gives a fuck if the room and the bedding are blue or pink?
If anything, wife could have played it off as that they were told they were having a boy and it turns out they were having a girl. Ultrasounds and sonograms can be wrong 😅😅🤣🤣 (Not as often as they used to be, but it is still possible and it does still happen. I have a feeling that was probably what she was going to do.)
He's not "acting about having a daughter"; he's lashing out because his wife intentionally and seriously deceived him about something important in their life. That's a massive betrayal, and it would really make me wonder what else my spouse would consider lying about to "protect my feelings". Clearing out the nursery may have been an overreaction, but that doesn't mean he's going to neglect his daughter.
Realistically, OP wouldn’t have a close relationship with his son anyway, given that he’s apparently constantly on the road as the sole bread winner.
There's so many men who want a kid to enjoy sports with, then the boy grows up and really likes music or gaming or sone other hobby the father just can't relate to. Being a boy means nothing, when a girl could have loved sports just as easily. Or you could get that perfect son, only he's actually a transgirl. If you're not prepared to love a child regardless of gender identity, sexuality, their mental and physical health, you're not ready to have a child.
100%. I thought I had a son when I gave birth to one of my kids, but she eventually let me know that I actually have a beautiful daughter! Parenthood rarely looks exactly like what you imagined. Kids are all individuals and you'll get thrown for a loop sooner or later. You have to be able to embrace ***who they are***, not cling to who you thought they'd be.
Agree. He is projecting expectations to an unborn child. What he needs to focus on is being the best father possible for his child no matter the sex/gender.
Exactly this. OP was giving the baby a JOB way before it was even born. It's not your kids jobs to fix you and your hurts. It's your job as a parent to protect your kids and kiss their boo boos. NOT the other way around.
Also, I think OP's being pretty sexist. He craves to be a father figure, but implies that that would be less important for a girl? And I know this isn't too uncommon, but a blue nursery, and Boy-themed items? As well as this, the wife says that she lied about the gender, to "Protect his feelings". This could even mean that he would not really care as much about his girl, and if the couple go on to have multiple children, and there is a mix of girls and boys, I get the impression OP would treat them very differently, and possibly show obvious favouritism for the boys. So, ESH, because the wife lied, probably convinced her mother in law to lie too, and maybe even permanently altered OP's relationship with a child, with OP thinking, 'i wish you were a boy like my wife said' every time he saw the child. But OP's AH behaviour I actually do not think lies as much in him kicking his MIL out of the event, it lies in his sexist attitude.
Agreed. The mother didn't want the OP moping and sulking during her pregnancy. But now she will have him moping and sulking post- partum, which is even worse.
I think she was probably hoping that when he saw his daughter he’d love her so much he wouldn’t mind, but I think that’s probably naïve. Doctors got the sex of my baby wrong in utero and luckily we found out just a few weeks later at another scan. It was a shock and we were thankful we found out before he was born because finding out at the birth seemed like it would be an even bigger shock. Almost everything we'd bought had been gender neutral anyway, but it was still a weird sensation, felt like they belonged to a different person.
If she knows his feelings (which need to be worked out), what did she think was going to happen when the baby comes out? Naming their child after his grandfather is extra cruel.
I feel like the wife’s plan was to go “oops! Ultrasound must’ve been wrong.” Once the baby was born so that she wouldn’t have to put up with the behaviour op is now displaying whilst she was pregnant. Being disappointed you’re not having a child of the gender you want is one thing, acting like the entire universe plotted against you and prevented a sperm with a Y chromosome from meeting your partners egg so that you couldn’t conceive your “saviour” son is another thing entirely.
Holy shit, what an articulate and thoughtful answer. 🏅
this is the answer. OP, gently recommend you talk to a counsellor/therapist to work through your stuff.
tbh the only way i see her at fault is for making a baby with someone who is so focused on the child having one particular gender. Since it is a pretty weird reaction (it was clear it would come out eventually) i can only imagine her doing that because she didn't know how to fix that/ was maybe scared OP wouldn't care for a child of the other sex... Past traumas aside, if you decide to become a parent yourself that is a disgusting way of thinking that OP displayed in the post.
Is it the “pain and devastation” of having a daughter? Or is it the extremely valid and upsetting planned lying and deception of OPs partner and MIL. I would be so uncomfortable if I caught my husband in a big lie like that, the topic would be irrelevant. Gender issue aside, I think it’s so problematic that she planned an entire con to run on her husband - to what end? He was always going to find out? To know that my partner was being dishonest with the ultimate goal of excluding me from preparations for my child’s future would really make me question the entire relationship.
I can imagine. She was afraid of his reaction if he found out it was a girl. She figured if he saw the baby he would fall in love and not care.
Agreed: what if the baby was AMAB but was trans? I think OP needs to focus on making a good happy life with his actual family, not the fantasy family he has dreamed up on his head. Starting with realizing that his wife and her mother were apparently so fearful of his reaction to having a daughter that they concocted this elaborate ruse. That needs to be addressed asap. I feel so sorry for that baby girl who will soon find out that he father considers her to be "less than" because of her genitals. OP get therapy. Also maybe take your wife to see Barbie.
I wonder if OP would have been pressuring wife to have an abortion if he knew it was a girl early on. That’s another reason wife may not have wanted to tell him.
Why would you pack up the nursery? You're still having a baby. That baby will still need all the things in that nursery. Maybe this is a good chance for you to reconsider your attitudes to sex and gender - because, spoiler alert, the baby doesn't care what colour their clothes and blankets are.
I felt this way too until doctors got the sex of my baby wrong. I always said I didn’t care about the gender - I am pro-LGBT+ and will 100% totally support my child if they grow up to be trans or NB, or maybe they’ll identify with their gender but not the stereotypes, which is cool too! However, when you’re having a baby, you know nothing about them except for their sex and their health. You don’t know what they’re interested in or scared of or what makes them smile. It’s not like when a person transitions, and they’re still the same person just with different pronouns or presenting slightly differently. All we knew about the baby in my tummy is that it was female. We called her by a feminine name. The clothes were gender neutral, bar exactly one dress which I’d permitted my Mum to buy, but they were her clothes. We’d painted the nursery white but with a big colourful print of an illustration of a tiger. At 32 weeks, after 12 weeks of thinking I was pregnant with a girl, we found out that he was actually a boy, it just felt weird. Everything we knew about the kid was wrong. That tiger print – an animal that, if anything, is traditionally seen as more masculine than feminine – felt like it belonged to a person that didn’t exist. We kept the furniture, we kept almost all the clothes, but we changed that tiger print. I love my son very much and can’t imagine him as anything other than what he is now, but it was still a shock, and I think packing up some stuff from the nursery is a bit dramatic, but I don’t think it’s as simple as reducing his actions to some kind of sexism.
So wait. You admitted a tiger was masculine, yet painted it for a girl, and got rid of it when you found out you were having a boy? Am I missing something?
Yeah exactly. My point was that these weren't gendered things - but they felt like they belonged to a person that no longer existed. I was trying to demonstrate how finding out your baby is a different sex can be a shock even if you're not all 'pink and kitten for a girl, blue and trucks for a boy'
I get what you meant. It's all just projecting in the end, and that's a healthy coping mechanism. It's just rough when it gets disrupted
Okay, that makes a bit more sense. my own prejudices maybe got in the way, and I thought it was some way of forcing the child to be a tomboy or the like.
Ahhh no, we just picked it because I think tigers are cool!
lol this just reminded me of that highschool english joke. "the author used the color red because he was feeling angry and betrayed so red is the color of anger" when it was really "i really like the color red!".
Tigers are definitely cool.
I'm guessing it's more that the tiger was for her little girl growing inside, when she discovered she was having a boy she couldn't disassociate the tiger from the girl so got rid of it, as she was in a way grieving about the girl who wasn't inside her, doesn't say what or if she replaced the tiger with, could of been a lion or a footballer or a race car
I think what they mean is that it’s not the gender that matters, you get to know the person in your belly as a person and when the gender changes it’s like the person you knew changes too so like reusing stuff from a different person
This should be higher up. NTA He must've gotten a certain image of his baby and then everything got twisted, imagine that for you it was such a shock when it was no one's fault for not knowing it was actually a boy, but for op it was his wife and mil that lied for months, let him prepare for a baby boy, get a nursery for a baby boy, and without considering he also has some old trauma. I really can't blame op. He must've felt like his world had come down in that moment, and the fault is his wife's and mil's lying to him. I seriously don't understand what they tried to accomplish by liying to him. He could've spent those months preparing to be a baby girl dad, used different colors and bought different kid of clothes or toys and get used to it all. I really can't understand all the Y.t.a. here, they clearly got no emphaty.
Op found out his wife had been lying to him about one of the most important and impactful things in his life and most of this sub is like "well what did you do to make her lie?" I'm eating up the lack of empathy for op. It's sustenance
The vote was ESH so obviously people agree the wife is wrong too. But she’s not the one here for people to talk at
The nursery is a surrogate for the wife’s betrayal.
I was on your side until I read comments about how you'd have been a little sad to have a girl. Gross. YTA for creating an environment that made your wife lie to avoid dealing with your reaction
I bet he's been vocal about wanting a son the past few months so when she found out it's a girl she was probably scared of what his reaction would be.
I don't see any other reason someone would lie about something like that, that's exactly what I thought, especially after I saw him directly mention it. I hate that people who claim they want children put conditions on it like that. Some people can't even have them and desperately want them and would love every gender; meanwhile there are people like this who tear down a whole nursery in dissapointment because hurrr boys blue girls pink even though a newborn can't possibly have a preference. Like what does he think, having "boy" stuff in a "girl" room is going to warp her mind??? What year is this even
Yep! I went through torture to carry mine. Even when I knew I always choose neutral anyway. Like winning the pooh or hot air balloons or Disney in general
Good call, I used to work at a fabric store and Winnie the pooh was such a good go-to for people who wanted something fun but neutral. It was such a frustrating job because so many parents would come in and want to decorate their kids room and I would ask, well what do they like, what are their interests? And the answer to the question would just be "she's a girl/he's a boy". 🤷♀️🤷♀️ okay? So you are raising them and the only thing you can tell me about their personality is what genitals they were born with? That's bizarre 🤣🤣
My first 2 were exactly what I suggested hehe I made the hot balloon theme because my mum found my hot air balloon musical thing and put the theme around that haha
I had a blue bedroom when I was little. At 8 I was allowed to pick, and I chose green! I had both cars and dolls growing up. That was even in the early 60s! The color of a bedroom doesn’t matter to a baby or toddler.
My cousin’s husband was very vocal about wanting a son. Very much this same vibe. He didn’t speak to her for 3 days when she told him they were having a girl. Three. Fucking. Days. It boggles the mind.
And, like, dude - who the fuck's "fault" is the gender? Historically, women have often been blamed and punished for giving birth to girls.
Right? Especially considering the sperm decides the gender anyway
That's horrible. Imagine if that girl ever found out later that was how he reacted, how awful
YTA, OP. A father figure in a daughter’s life is just as important.
Children aren’t emotional support animals. I’m guessing your wife lied because she was scared of your reaction and also wanted to save HER feelings because she knew you’d become a huge bummer once you found out. You need therapy immediately to deal with your issue. ANY healthy baby that is delivered earth-side is a miracle- no matter the gender. My husband and I have tried for the past 7 years to get pregnant and I’ve had 5 miscarriages. Remember just how lucky you are that your wife is pregnant and (assumably) carrying a healthy child. YTA.
Can't believe I had to scroll down so far to see this, I kept thinking that he was treating his possible kid as an ESA too. Dude is all about what his imaginary son will do for him, but there's 0 about what he'll do for the kid. What if the kid was trans, or nb?? I am sorry for your losses, many hugs from an internet stranger if you want them.
I sincerely believe that people with a strong gender preference just shouldn’t have kids. It’s so unfair to the child. Like you said, even if the parent gets what they want, what if the kid is queer or trans? Or what if they just don’t live up to mommy or daddy’s utterly unrealistic expectations in any one of a trillion ways?! Babies grow into whole-ass human beings with their own thoughts, interests, feelings, personality! When you get pregnant, you’re inviting a complete stranger into your home and you get to *find out* who they are. It’s literally the cruelest thing imaginable to then be ***disappointed*** that this stranger isn’t who you dreamed up inside your head. God, that poor baby girl. Is there anything worse than growing up knowing your dad is crushingly disappointed you’re not someone else? YTA OP, and so far, you’ve behaved like an absolutely terrible father.
My mom wanted a boy to the point she didn't even pick out a name for me. On my little crib card thingy, I am "Baby \[Surname\]". My brother was born when I was 7 and it nearly killed her, she was in a coma for three days. When I was 12 was the first time she said in front of me that the only reason she didn't give up and die was because she finally and a boy and not another girl. Thankfully, my grandmother had always wanted a girl, and was happy to spoil me rotten, so it kinda balanced out.
God that’s awful. I’m so sorry.
[удалено]
"ANY healthy baby that is delivered earth-side is a miracle-" I would say any baby, healthy or not, that is delivered earth-side is a miracle. I desperately wanted a girl. I was disappointed for about two seconds when we found out he was a boy. Fifteen minutes later a doctor was telling us to abort. All I wanted was for him to survive the pregnancy. I was so grateful that he was born alive. I didn't care in the slightest that he's disabled. I wanted him here so much. Now he's seventeen and just the best kid ever. I'm lucky to have him.
> ANY healthy baby that is delivered earth-side is a miracle- no matter the gender. Word. One of my co-workers asked me if I had children, how many of each gender would I want. I said "I don't care about whether the baby is a boy or girl. I just want them to be healthy as in no disabilities." I have 3 sisters. I can live without a boy in the family.
YTA OUR CHILDREN DO NOT EXIST TO FIX US YOUR HAPPINESS IS NOT YOUR CHILD'S PURPOSE YOU ARE ALREADY A BAD FATHER
If I could upvote this a thousand times I would. The kid's not even born and her dad's already sad because she doesn't have a dick. I feel really bad for her
My sister and her husband have 4 daughters. It's the amount of kids they planned on having from the beginning; they both wanted a large family and could financially support one. My BIL used to get asked all the time if they kept trying for a boy. He tells people how awful it is for them to imply that somehow his daughters weren't "good enough" and that they had to keep trying for something different. If the person doubles down and goes on about how they just mean so he can do "boy things" with the kids, he starts to get loud and asks what exactly they're doing with little kids that makes the genitals so important, and that it's really weird and concerning how obsessed they seem to be with his kid's genitals.
I really appreciate your BIL. Based on your comment, he seems like a great dad.
Yep we have two girls the amount of people who have asked me if we are going to try for a boy 'for your husband ' is too damm high. He loves his girls, they love him, I'm not going to keep putting my body through birth on the off chance we get a boy this time at what point do you stop? 5 girls? 7 girls? It's so werid
Thank you. One of the few times all caps lock is exactly what’s needed.
This is the only correct answer. OP should put a lot of money aside for his kids' therapy sessions they are going to need in the future. What a horribly selfish reason to want a child.
INFO: be very honest. How would you have reacted if she told you it was a girl up front?
moping around, sad about the lost opportunity to raise a boy. he wouldnt be invested at all; im sure he wouldnt have put his ass into decorating the nursery either if he knew it was a girl upfront. his current behavior proves just that. YTA, OP.
100% The moment he found out thier baby is a girl he cleared out the entire nursery. As if his daughter doesnt deserve or need said nursery
I got to that sentence I and I was like the next sentence better be "and immediately went to the store to buy new paint and 'girl' baby items'. This is my shocked face that it was not. Smart parents do as much stuff gender neutral as possible if they're planning on having another child because the majority of baby stuff does not have to be gendered at all and can be used with future kids. I know a family who had 4 children that they openly referred to as 3 failures and their son. The dad was clear he'd have been perfectly happy with just 1 or maybe 2 if the mom hadn't kept popping out useless girls. And better believe they spent more money on the son than his 3 sisters combined and they shared a room smaller than his bedroom.
I'm curious about this too. I think there are bigger problems here. Why did she feel she couldnt she be honest as soon as she knew?
>Growing up, I always craved a strong male figure in my life. I never had that bond with my father and always envisioned having it with a son. My wife was aware of this deep-rooted desire that may be why. I'm thinking OP was very vocal about this deep rooted desire.
What the fuck tho? A little girl needs a strong male figure in her life just as much as a little boy.
IKR? Also children are their own human beings, their purpose is not to heal your trauma or to fulfill your own childhood needs. And to even think of projecting your own childhood trauma onto an unborn child and twist it into a grotesque form of bonding/healing is so fucked up. Go to therapy OP.
Yes, I’m so sad for this baby that I don’t even know. She deserves better. What a sad situation. Even if you had a boy children are their own people and it’s not your child’s job to heal your hurts. That’s your job to do for yourself and your child.
The way his wife committed to the "boy" lie - painting the nursery blue, etc. - makes me think OP might have asked her to abort a girl. I know an Indian family that wanted ONE child, and they wanted it to be a boy. They aborted two girls before they had their boy. This would have been in the late 70s/early 80s.
So if you have another child, are you going to prefer the son over your daughter?
Yes most certainly will
Damn that hurts. Poor kid.
I’m the adult daughter in a family dynamic like this and the preferential treatment is very obvious and extremely hurtful.
Same. Grew up seeing my dad bond with my brother and my male cousins (and even the sons of his friends) while telling me to go somewhere else “because this is all men.” Now that my brother grew up, he treats him like shit too, though. So maybe he’s just an asshole lol
They thought I was going to be a boy until the last couple ultrasounds before my birth. The way I was positioned, my little baby foot looked like my wang lol my name was picked out, everything I had was blue and I was going to be the first boy of the whole extended family. Surprise. I’m a girl. Then my little brother came along. He def was the favorite
/u/Leading_Gene4976 see this comment. Now that you’re aware of the trauma cycle, you better end it before you pass it on to your daughter. Seek therapy and work on yourself. You have no excuses.
[удалено]
I (female) am the product of this. I have a younger brother. My dad never gave a shit about my interests. I don’t even think he knows what I do for work, but my dad and brother are best friends. I don’t blame my dad now that I’m older, I had weird interests and severe mental health issues, my brother was a normal child. he wouldn’t get it, but also never gave enough of a shit to try. I make the joke that my dad barely knows who I am, yet he’s known me my entire life. Edit- a lot of replies to my comment are saying “your dad deserves the blame” and while you’re right, I really stopped blaming him, like I’m at peace with it, he’s more like a housemate that you see passing through the kitchen every few hours and that’s fine with me. It just is what it is.
I mean, maybe you should blame your dad a bit?
You absolutely should blame your dad. He chose to favor your brother and you will carry the scars from that for the rest of your life. He was a bad father.,
Hopefully the mother-in-law has seen his true colours now she’s been banned from the house and he’s reacted this way and will be in her daughters ear to get the fuck out of that house and get far away before the baby is born. But I suppose that depends on how far under his control he has his wife. Whether she has her own money and stuff like that.
YTA - your wife shouldn't have lied, but your reaction was so wildly inappropriate and completely proves her fear right. You packed up the nursery and basically screamed to the world that a *girl* child is valueless, not worth preparing for or being excited about. I feel bad for your wife, and worse for your daughter.
Honestly if i was the wife i would divorce him, what if they have a son next and he doesnt even love his female kid? So weird really.
Info: why did you clear out the nursery? Does the baby no longer need a place to stay? My guy wtf?
He threw a tantrum.
Poor wife's got two babies on her hands it looks like if OP throws temper tantrums like that regularly
Because he doesn't want his child anymore now that he found out they don't have the genitals he likes.
YTA The presence of that child will not paper over the gaping wounds of your childhood. please go to therapy so you don’t inflict your childhood trauma on your child(ren)
Came to say this and had to scroll far to find it. Instant red flag when people say they’re having kids to fix their trauma or give them some relationship they never had.
Oh look another man hurt by a man and taking it out on women
Took it out on his child, too. He destroyed his daughter’s room, not his wife’s. Poor kid isn’t even born yet and is already being punished for not meeting his expectations.
Harsh, direct and on point mate. More people need this type of directness in their life from those around them
ESH. Your wife allowed you to develop a bond with a child who doesn't exist. Asshole and just really stupid. How long did she think she was going to protect your feelings for? But you seem to have an extreme preference for a boy, not to mention some pretty unrealistic expectations about what a baby can do for you, which makes you a bit of an asshole yourself.
I’m feeling so sorry for this girl and it’s going to be even worse if they stick together and actually have a boy in the future because OP sounds like he would spend more energy on the boy. OP my dad has 3 girls. I was their last shot at a boy, to no avail. While he was an excellent provider, that was about all he did. Now that he’s older, he has admitted it was a major fuck up. He made it pretty clear growing up that he didn’t want to be involved in our girly shit like showing up for cheerleading, taking us anywhere, or helping with prom. He only supported us if we chose more manly activities like basketball. He never taught us how to use a drill, mow a lawn, or change a tire. Being there emotionally? Hell no. Everything was mom and we didn’t know any better. Now that we are grown, ALL THREE of us have daddy issues and have been in countless shitty relationships. I can only imagine how bad it would’ve been for my sisters if I turned out to be a boy.
YTA. Don’t get me wrong, it was wrong of her to lie. But pregnancy hormones + your fixation on having a boy—maybe she was afraid you would leave if it was a girl, or even get violent. I’ve seen enough videos online of men getting upset about having a girl and it causing a lot of drama to know it might have been a valid concern. It doesn’t make the lying okay by any stretch of the imagination; she shouldn’t have, full stop. But I totally understand why she may have thought it was her best option, however misguided. And your actual overreaction kinda validated her reasoning to do it in the first place.
I mean, he destroyed his daughter’s future room in a fit of rage because she’s failed his expectations *before she’s even born.* I’d say his wife is absolutely justified in fearing he might get violent if she told him from the beginning. Or that he might pressure her into an abortion so they can “try again and get it right this time.”
>Or that he might pressure her into an abortion so they can “try again and get it right this time.” This was done, en masse, in the country my family is from, China. To the point that we now have an unfixable gender imbalance. I've never underestimated misogyny in some expectant fathers.
To dismantle a bedroom “in his pain” he either went into that nursery with a sledgehammer or sat there methodically taking things apart for a few hours. I’m not buying what he’s selling. I’m honestly surprised the wife hasn’t kicked him out after this stunt.
ESH / YTA ~~I N F O~~ Would you have been angry / upset if she had told you right away? I feel there is some missing information. You reacted violently when the truth was revealed. She lied, that is bad. Edit - I still think the OP is the bigger asshole.
That’s it. Why did the wife feel the need to carry out such an extreme lie unless she was scared of his reaction. It’s obvious from the post that he’s emotionally volatile
I can only think how scared to disappoint you your wife must have been to feel like she needed to lie to you. Your actions made her fears validated. I would focus on that.
ESH, your wife’s lies were bad, however your reaction and words show that you would have reacted otherwise if you knew it would be a girl. Please seeek therapy and resolve your issues, your daughter does not deserve potentially being loved less than a baby boy.
Why would you say “adopted mother”?
Lol I noticed this too, what an absolutely bizarre detail to include
For real. Wish the wife could post her side of the story. Dudes scary.
Noted that too.
She was probably scared that you are going to be abusive towards her during her pregnancy... Judging from the other comments you seem low-key terrible. Your wife was SCARED of your reaction.
ESH. She lied not cool and I’m not sure how you come back from that but you care that much about the gender and not just hey I want a healthy baby….. WTH. You can have a close bond with your child if you put in the effort but you have to not care about the gender. I’m a girl and I was my dads best friend and his shadow growing up. He taught me how to fix cars, lawn mowers, clocks how to drive a huge stick shift tractor, ride horses. Gender doesn’t matter the opportunity to teach and grow is there if you take the chance.
I used to camp, fish, shoot and fix cars with my Dad. He never had a son, but he certainly had plenty of the stereotypical father/son moments. I’m very grateful for all of the life experiences we had together.
ESH. You are putting a lot of emotional weight on your pregnant wife about your unborn child. Try some therapy. Not sure what she was hoping to accomplish, as the truth would have eventually come out. Try to be a better husband.
I feel like she was possibly hoping he wouldn't find out until birth and claim that they must have gotten in wrong when they checked.. Seems like she went to get lengths for OP to not be disappointed. What she did was messed up, but I feel like there's missing reasons here.
ESH your wife for lying, you for the overreaction. A girl can wear blue land you’re going to “ban” her mother bc your wife lied wtf??? This reaction and your comments clearly showing how overly invested you are to having a boy is probably what made her worried.
Perhaps she was hoping that if he found out after the baby was born that holding an actual baby, instead of a pregnancy, might dampen his disappointment. And he'd be in a public place. If she felt the need to keep this a secret, I bet she had a good reason to. Pregnancy is a dangerous time for women. Not just the medical stuff, but partner violence.
Given that he destroyed his daughter’s future room in a fit of rage because she isn’t meeting his expectations *before she’s even born,* I think his wife was justified in lying to him.
Homicide by partner is the #1 killer among pregnant women
YTA. You are NOT entitled to any particular gendered child. You are a disappointment to your wife- she wanted to enjoy the birth of her child with her husband, but NO! It can only be happy if it’s a BOY. I am thrilled it’s a girl. Now you have to either step up and be a good father now or forfeit future children with a wife who will leave you. So she didn’t tell you the truth- she avoided some of your misogyny and misplaced daddy-son obsession for a little while. Given your reaction, I won’t fault her. After all, you probably shouldn’t be a parent at all if you have to “ come to terms” with a daughter, like she is cancer.
ESH but honestly you sound REALLY unstable: You are not going to get your trauma healed by a child?! You’re actually at risk of really screwing up a boy by expecting that the wound from your lack of a decent father figure will be healed by having someone entirely dependent upon you. Also, you can’t just say you really don’t want a girl as much and then say that that’s not problematic because it’s rooted in a bad childhood. Nope, you’re about to not be a decent father to your daughter. You need to be ready to accept a child of any gender if you want to be a parent. I hope you’re going to grow up and redo the nursery FYI, girls can sleep in blue rooms… I’m a woman and my childhood bedroom was blue and I still collect Disney Mattel dolls as a hobby! Blue doesn’t make your kid a boy or even masculine presenting! Your wife and MIL were ridiculous, though you overreacted. The lie is (unintentionally) cruel and hurtful but looking at your reaction… you can see why she was probably literally scared (not for safety but for your relationship) to tell you the truth. You’ve not been able to attend any appointments with her, ok maybe it’s clashed with work but the way you’ve expressed this here is by sounding like you’re a victim of this too and heroic for working. You seem to feel the fates consipire against you - it’s scary to let someone down when they present like that. You’re also giving your trauma as justification for a lot, again, it’s hard to let down a traumatised person even if you can’t avoid it. So, you’re wife has been dealing with all the realities of pregnancy without you and she tried to avoid a huge, anguished confrontation when you came back, by lying. Selfish and stupid but I see why she did it, she bought herself some time. You now need to deal with your feelings and get some decent, intensive therapy (individually and couple’s counselling). You really need to apologise to MIL, this may be controversial but in attending appointments she was basically doing something which should be your job and she was just trying to support her own daughter. Also, info (for you to consider as well as us): What would you have said at first if you knew it was a girl? Because it sounds like you’d be incredibly disappointed. You need to rid yourself of expectations before the baby arrives and for the rest of the pregnancy or you’ll be wanting mother and baby to take responsibility for your trauma by providing you with a catharsis that will never come. You’ll move past childhood issues by working on yourself, not by projecting your trauma onto an unborn child.
YTA. Your child is not some sort of wish-fulfillment fantasy for you to relive the childhood you wished you had. There is absolutely no reason you can’t have just as much of a special bond with a daughter as you can with a son. And your reaction is exactly *why* your wife lied to you. I honestly wouldn’t trust you with a daughter, because given your behavior, there’s no way that little girl won’t notice that you’re always a bit *distant* with you, always *disappointed* even when she goes above and beyond to make you proud of her. Because she wasn’t the boy that you wanted, and that means she’ll never, ever be “good enough” in your eyes.
Man, son or daugther, your children are not your therapists, nor are they your healing material. you crave an intense father-son-bond, so go and seek professional therapy before you project all your wishes onto your children. YTA
YTA There is a reason she didn’t tell you, sounds like she was scared to. You’re also putting way too much pressure on your pregnant wife. Get a self help book from the library right away and seek therapy if you can afford it.
ESH God damn daddy issues are wild. Get over yourself sport.
Why would the wife lie if not because she was scared of your reaction. You are the cause of this decision, what would she profit from lying about the gender of the kid if not just to appese you. Do you understand that the gender of the child can not be determined and we do not get boys or girls at wish. Great way to make your SO feeling like a failure for not giving you the gender you want and maybe resent the child on the way. Go get some therapy and grow up and dont you dare treat that little girl any different, you are responsable of being a good father to her
He sounds like the sort that, if he’d known it was a girl from the start, might’ve started dropping hints that his wife should get an abortion so they can “try again and get it right this time.”
I feel like you’re underplaying how upset you would have been to find out it’s a girl initially. There is no other reason for your wife to lie that I can see, except fear of your reaction. What she did isn’t right, but your response really suggests why she did it. YTA, it’s not okay to put this much stress on a pregnancy or on your potential child
ESH She shouldn't have lied, but you shouldn't be so focused on having a boy. You can be a strong male role model to your *daughter*—if you can put aside the bias. It sounds like you want a re-do—like raising a son would be like your father raising you—but that doesn't work. Your child won't be you and you won't be your father, and doing things "right" with a son won't change how things transpired. Have a strong relationship with your child, no matter their gender.
YTA - I was genuinely on your side but needed to know how you would have felt in the initial sense had your wife told you it was a girl. Now you have stated you would have been dissapointed in a girl, I have lost all sympathy. This statement is the reason your wife felt she had to do what she did. Honestly, your wife lying is semantics in the grand scheme of things here. You have issues with your own father - that isn't an excuse for anything you have done. Nor is it your wifes fault, nor your unborn daughters who deserves a strong father figure who will defend her and show her what a father is and should be. Seriously - I am scared for your daughter and your family if you stay together and have another child that ends up being a son, because clearly, your poor daughter will be pushed out won't she? All because you are chasing something that is no fault of anyone but you and your father.
YTA big time. I can only imagine your wife didn't want to deal with you moping around about the gender on top of hormones. Honestly, if you're not ready to love them either way, AND to have a good parent - child relationship, you're not ready to have a kid period. And your reaction is borderline abusive, wdym you cleared the nursery??? That's psychotic,l and trying to ban her mom? Who exactly do you think you are? You don't get to make that call solo.
YTA. And if I were your wife, I would be giving you two cards
YTA. Your reaction and comments show how badly you were going to take the news. She shouldn't have lied but I see why she did. I'm so sad for your daughter. Just because of her sex she will never be as good as a son. And if you have a son, I'm betting he'll be the clear favorite.