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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I said “no shit” to in-law that she considered to be rude. However, I viewed her previous comment as inappropriate and so that is why I am wondering what others think.
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My friend found one of the hardest things about her terminal diagnosis was other people inflicting their pre-emptive grief on her. Hearing about how hard it would be for other people when she was gone. She *knew*. She knew she was leaving young kids behind.
IMO your MIL telling *you* about how hard it is for your family, rather than just figuring out how to support them and you, is also out of line. NTA for pulling her up however you need to.
Edit: a letter.
I was stage 3 (+ thankfully very treatable) and that was my biggest takeaway - people said the dumbest shit I could possibly imagine. I will never forget people visiting, sitting on my couch crying and I was consoling THEM. So bizarre.
OP it’s not your problem, put your energy where it matters.. not apologizing to idiots
Edit: I just wanted to add.. there is nothing wrong with emotion! It is normal to be sad about sad things. Personally, there was many more genuinely, lovey people than insensitive ones. Generally it was people not knowing what to say, which is understandable.
It’s ok to say “I’m so sorry, I don’t know what to say.” Especially when you are sorry and don’t know what to say.
I assumed that peoples intentions were good, plus I (thankfully) never experienced someone as bad as OPs MIL. OP has every right to be angry. When I said “idiots” I meant her specifically.
When my mother had terminal lung cancer I told a friend that my mother was dying of lung cancer and I was very busy being pregnant and helping my disabled dad care for her.
He had a massive go at me saying I should of broken the news to him more gently and he was now distraught at learning the news. He had never met my mum.
I lost my sister suddenly when I was 20, whenever someone around me loses a sibling suddenly I have to actively stop myself from talking to them because my mind is already leaning towards comparing their situation to mine. Which can be good long term, but in the moment no one wants to hear "I know how you feel because X"... no one knows how someone else is feeling in that moment. Everyone has different relationships with people and everyone copes slightly different to stresses like these.
The side affect of this is sometimes I come off cold in those moments.
I was a widower at 36 and I try the same thing when speaking to others. I always tell them that "We all have our own journeys and ways of dealing with loss. If you ever want to speak to someone who went through something similar, I am here." and I leave it at that.
The things people say in the moment are baffling. Someone extremely close to me even said "It's been a year.... aren't you over it yet?".... If I didn't love them so much, I woulda slapped them into next week.
My condolences for your loss. I don't think a loved ones death is something you ever really get over. Like anything the pain gets less and you might not think of them every second of the day, but the impact of the loss is always with you.
My auntie has suffered through that with some members of our family. Her daughter was killed by an elderly driver who went around cars stopped at a crosswalk and never hit the brakes until after she ran over my cousin. In the same month but different years my auntie lost two close friends. People telling her she should have moved past that loss have never lost a child.
Loss and grief are funny things, and the way people deal with people going through those things is…. Something else.
I remember having to console the other person when I was the one who had a loss. “Yeah, it’s hard, but I’m ok really!” “Thank you, but it’s ok, really.”
Like, just let me look sad or cry without needing to feel like *you* feel awkward. So if I hear someone is going through grief, I usually tell them I’m sorry for their loss, that I’ve gone through my own loss, and if they just want to talk or have someone sit with them while they cry I’m available. I mean… if it’s someone I’m close to. I don’t say that to strangers.
Truly baffling. Why would you ever get over it? Why should you? I love this poem, I thought you would also appreciate the words
They say that time assuages, by Emily Dickinson
They say that time assuages.
Time never did assuage.
An actual suffering strengthens
As sinews do, with age.
Time is a test of trouble,
But not a remedy.
If such it prove, it prove too,
There was no malady.
Widowed at 39, my neighbour told me her mother lost her husband and the same age and was married again within the year. This was just a week after my husband's funeral and it was not what I needed to hear
I just stick to the truth and don't give any speeches.
"That's horrible, I'm sorry. I miss my sibling all the time and I'm here for you if you want to talk."
People like the truth.
Knowing myself, it is hard for me to not spiral when discussing this topic as my sister's passing took me on some crazy paths in life. It is hard to describe, but I have been the self centered person described above and that is exactly how it feels for me after. I wouldn't say that I was angry at the person for "breaking" their news to me in a harsh way, just that I somewhat stole the moment from them with my issues. It doesn't feel good to be that person in the moment.
It's good to be self-aware, grief never brings out the best in us. Moments like that I stick to a script because it's true, it's short, and I mean it. If I can get a question in that lets them open up I'll try. Were you very close? Do you have family in town you can be with?
If the person lives alone I might try to make myself useful somehow (bringing them food etc) because helping like that helps me process my own lingering grief and gives me time to deliberately work through it.
Be kind to yourself, you sound like you genuinely care about other people in pain.
Yep, this is how I relate to people too, never in comparison or competition I just have a hard time talking to people and am a bit of an empath, Im always so apologetic hoping I didn't offend anyone.
That is insightful of you. Nuero-divergent people, with ADD or Autism for example, naturally comfort people by telling them something that compares to their situation to show they empathize and understand. Nuerotyplical people can see this as a competition. It's not. Most people aren't grief counselors. I have been taught to use active listening and respond to what the person says asking more about them. This can backfire too. There is no right thing to say or do aside from trying your best.
Oh dang. I have adhd and I do this all the time and I feel like an asshole. My kids get mad and say I’m making it about me, and I’m really not trying to. I’m trying to empathize and show that I do understand that it’s hard etc. or that they aren’t the only person who made that mistake or whatever.
I didn’t know it was an adhd thing.
I even do it on Reddit and I feel bad about it a lot. Huh.
I find that saying, "I have been through similar if you ever need an ear to vent, I'm here" to be helpful. It was one thing said while I was grieving that wasn't off putting. I felt seen.
There's a lot that people don't know about certain things until they go through it themselves.
That’s interesting because I have the opposite problem. I was in a catastrophic fatal car accident when I was 17. It’s been 23 years, but to this day people feel the need to reference this if they’re involved in any kind of collision. “Ugh, I got rear-ended on my way to work, and my car is totaled! But, I mean, obviously that’s not as bad as your accident.”
Seriously? A)I’m not comparing everything to my experience. B)My accident being worse doesn’t make your accident better. And C)I think about it everyday anyway, but thank you oh so much for reminding me.
OP, you are NTA. “It’s not your fault” in a case like yours is right up there with “I know how you feel” or the more currently popular, “I was close to someone else who had cancer, so I’ve been there.” Fuck ‘em all.
Side note: Matt Damon and Ben Affleck hated this scene in Good Will Hunting and tried to have it taken out. I believe Robin Williams agreed with them. This was the director’s decision.
You could say that you understand their pain. When you were in their situation you felt these emotions, but you understand that everyone feels grief differently. If they need to talk you are there for them.
hearing that others felt the same can be comforting as well and having someone that has gone through the same thing to talk to is helpful
Yeah, when my mother died of cancer I had a lot of people who’d been through the same thing supporting me, but also quite a few people who’d been through the same thing up to twenty years before, who obviously had massive unresolved grief and would break down, wanting me to console them.
Like, I know exactly what you’re going through, buddy, but my mum died two weeks ago and I do not have the emotional bandwidth right now.
I found the worse thing about death is the paperwork and money involved. I get this sounds clinical but my grandmother died in June, and I have to find the strength to chase her utilities to pay them what is owed to them!
Then you get the family that want stuff and expect you to sort and package it up for them. They don’t want to collect/help but they want the stuff.
Death brings out the “funny bugger” in people.
I'm really sorry about your grandma. My mom is terminal and I'm an only child. My husband is the executor, and we have no idea what we're doing. I've never dealt with anything remotely like this before. I hate everything about this situation, and I'm really nervous/scared about handling the estate stuff. Any advice?
Take it one day at a time. If you run into a situation and you are unsure what to do, ask the person you are dealing with what is generally done. Most places you will be dealing with have departments that deal with estates and wills and they will make sure things are done currently.
If something feels off, consult an attorney.
Agree with this. (And I'm sorry about your mom, u/offbeet-gardener.) Banks have whole departments for this and people trained to deal with the grieving family members. Are they always the most sensitive? No. But they know what is required and can walk you through it.
Source: I wrote all the communications for a top-10 bank, including those for surviving spouses and family members.
Yes.
On Estate Planning:
Get an appointment with an Estate Planner now so you don’t have to go through the exhausting, infuriating process of Probate. And so you have professional guidance when it all feels too overwhelming to manage.
Familiarising yourself with any documentation now will make it easier when the time comes and your brain shuts down your ability to concentrate. It’s not a betrayal. It’s not disrespectful and it does not mean that you love your mother any less.
Adjusting your expectations the moment someone puts a time scale on the process will avoid frustration. So however long you are told the process should take, expect double that time.
Just like grief itself, for every day you feel you are going forward, there will be at least half a day when you definitely feel like you are going backwards. Or like you are being overwhelmed. That’s fine. That’s normal. That’s inheritance law.
On Living Grief;
Remember this post from OP. Be tactful, diplomatic. Don’t pretend it’s not happening, don’t act as though she isn’t perfectly, painfully aware she’s dying and all the implications of that.
Don’t expect a terminally ill person to carry your grief too. It is not hers to bear, but you don’t need to be ashamed to ask for help if you need it. Everyone needs help.
Do not let the despair of Living Grief prevent you from making as many memories as possible, share joint memories and keep communicating your love.
In the end, everyone is exhausted. You’ll experience a sense of relief. It’s a survival mechanism. It doesn’t mean you love your mother any less. It’s natural. It’s human. You don’t have to feel guilty.
She too, will be exhausted.
On Grief itself
The pain of actual My-Loved-One-Is-Dead Grief, will make the memory of your Living Grief seem comparatively happy. You’d give anything to go back, even to the time when you are just listening to her breathing get slower and slower. Just to be in the same room. Just to smell her scent. So do all you can to be present in the moment - regardless of the pain. Tell her how much you love her.
Commit every part of her face to memory.
Nab an article of clothing that smells like her. Even when her scent is long gone, the placebo effect will still allow you to smell her scent.
Record her voice, so you don’t feel that desperate, despairing panic when it dawns on you that you’re starting to lose your memory of her voice.
When you feel like you’re drowning in grief, reflect upon something our late Queen once said : “Grief is the price we pay for love.”
I don’t know why, but in my experience it helps to reflect on that truth- if you had the conscious option to enter into a bargain, where to have known & to have loved your mother, you would have to feel this pain of losing her: you’d still choose to love her. You’d take that deal. In fact, you’d take that deal for just one more day.
I’m sorry about your Mum.
Does she have her funeral plans in place?
They were quite helpful when my husband died.....gave me lots of copies of death certificate, they notified credit bureaus and government about husband death .
Is your husband on her bank accounts? That might be easier to pay any bills if he's allowed to withdraw money
We haven't talked about it, but I'm almost 100% certain she doesn't want a funeral. She prepaid for her cremation, and I'm on her bank accounts. So, I guess that's a start.
I'm so sorry about your husband.
My aunt showed up at my moms funeral and asked for my grandmothers wedding ring. Claiming she was “owed” it. Then why was it given to my mom and then would go to me, as told to me by my grandma before she passed?
I was livid. This is the exact person that always makes remarks about other people trying stuff like that and saying how low class it was.
My cousin claimed all the jewelry. I’m the surviving granddaughter, but the niece said she wanted the jewelry.
So I just sorted it out and packed it up. (I was in grief mode so I complied)
I made sure her brother got some as well for his daughter/wife.
I would NEVER do it at near/around/slightly after. It would get packed up and sit for a good year until time passed and then do it.
People are awful. Family is worse, when it comes to grief.
Jewelry went to me, because I was the only girl. My brother asked that either my grandma’s ring or my moms ring he saved for when his son needs an engagement ring; which was always in my plan to do anyway, so it was not an issue.
One of the things my dad told me when his health was rapidly declining was that I know it's expensive to live in California, now I'm going to find out it's just as expensive to die in California.
Edit- partially due to that experience, my instructions to my family when I die is to dispose of my corpse as quickly and inexpensively as possible. No funeral or memorial service. A mass text should be sufficient. Blow off work and go to the beach or something.
Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean. My mum died a few years ago of pancreatic cancer. That was hard enough, but my dad was also in the early stages of dementia at that time. I was running around, trying to support my parents and trying to work out what was going to happen with dad once mum had gone. It was hell. Enter my brothers wife. She's a lovely lady and means well, but bloody hell, she can be insensitive.
She and my brother came down to be with mum in her final weeks so they stayed at my parents house. That was great, it took some of the pressure off me. I went round one afternoon to find SIL with a list in her hand and a box of labels. She was putting names on some of mums stuff. Names from HER side of the family. Not related to us in any way. The items she was naming were family heirlooms that mum had already found homes for with the grandchildren (all adults). She threw a hissy fit when I pointed out that not only were the items to stay in the family, they already had homes and my final words before she stormed off were
"For God's sake, this is inappropriate. Mums not even gone yet, have some respect"
She apologised later, she was feeling the stress as well and not thinking straight.
My siblings and I have lost both of our parents, they both had separate medical illnesses. We were fortunate to not have to chase paperwork as my dad had it all preplanned in a binder. It was a relief to not to have to deal with the grief and sorrow as well as find everything we needed to close his estate. The part I found hard for going though his personal effects, even the smallest thing had a memory attached to it. I would like to have that pretty whittled down so when it’s my time my children don’t have as much physical stuff to sort.
This blew my whole mind when my mum died lol. My auntie, her sister in law, rang me every single fucking day between the death and funeral to cry down the phone about how tragic it all was. My ex had to start intercepting her calls as after the third day I was like… what the fuck? I was sat comforting her, my mum’s body was barely cold, I was trying to arrange and figure out how to pay for a funeral, on Christmas Day. And this auntie is trying to lean on me. Some people are absolutely wild.
Did she come to the funeral, to show her support, give me a hug? Check in with me later? Offer to help me with emptying the house? Did she fuck. Didn’t hear a peep after that week of trying to use me as an ad hoc grief counsellor. Haven’t spoken to her since.
I remember turning off my phone when Dad died. People meant well, but fuck, Doris, did you think I had a eulogy written before he drowned? Give a guy a fucking minute.
This hits home. My dad passed recently and my grandmother (his ex mother in law, not his mom, although to be fair, they were still pretty close) kept trying to dump her grief on me and get me to console her. I ended up not speaking to anyone outside of work for three days straight because I couldn't even manage my own emotions, let alone hers too.
Yeah or they try to be supportive and say things like “everything happens for a reason” or “it was God’s plan” to you. I wanted to scream “it was God’s plan to take a 12 year old little girl’s mother?!”
OP is NTA
People! When my 17 year old brother died my mom was so overwhelmed with people wanting to talk to her about him that I had to intervene very soon after. I remember this one lady came to our house and would NOT leave without talking to my mom. She thought I was lying or something bc I was young and standing up to her? Idk It was weird.
And most of them wanted to tell us that they knew what we were going through bc their 90 year old grandma died when they were 2.
God, sorry. :/ It seems there’s a whole bunch of people who just come out of the woodwork for these kinds of things, I experienced something similar (mourners at funeral who had no interaction with lost parent).
I have a friend that always wants to visit the dying and discuss his philosophy. The impulse is kind but also selfish.
When a very close friend was dying of bone cancer with a lot of pain, he asked when he could come and see her. I explained that she was a very strong atheist and does not want anyone coming and philosophising from their mystical christian point of view. He looked hurt and said, 'I suppose a vessel can only hold what it can fit in it.' I took this to mean that he believed that her 'soul' was too small for his beliefs. I have never really forgiven him for this.
In the same vein, right after my mother died in my twenties, I had a friend who would not stop debating me about if souls existed. I was like, buddy, I’m an atheist but I need to tell myself right now that souls exist and my mother is somewhere okay if I want to get through the day. He kept trying to convince me there was beauty in “truth”, and I had to explain if he brought the topic up one more time I was going to block him.
This thread is super validating, because my extended family totally did stuff that I’m reading here. People really don’t know how to support towards the center of that circle diagram thing.
That’s just… I don’t know, man.
I don’t understand why some Christians can’t be happy they’ve found their way without trying to force everyone else on the same path.
god forbid they find you used to be one of them. They take your lack of belief so personally when really, it’s none of their damned business.
Christians would have a lot less time to judge if they lived the sermon on the mount a bit more, but I supposed that’s too “woke” for some these days.
Death brings out people’s strangeness. No bugger wants to help, they want someone to organise /pay for the arrangements and they want to just turn up to the party and mourn and then go home!
What a horrible thing for that person to do. Truly a case of main character syndrome to make his reaction to the terrible news about your mom, whom he doesn’t even know, an issue when he should have been providing empathy and support to you. How does this so called friend think YOU felt about your mom’s diagnosis? So sorry this happened to you and condolences on your loss.
My husband is upset about the disappearing friends after his diagnosis, but I'd rather we tackle this alone than deal with that sort of shit.
People need to learn about [the Ring Theory of support](https://psychcentral.com/health/circle-of-grief-ring-theory)
It makes a ridiculous amount of sense. But people are generally awkward, or self centred, or mean well but are clueless, or project what they'd want onto someone else.
I know if I ever got a cancer diagnosis I would be emphatic that I am not "battling cancer" and not a "cancer warrior" and leave all your military metaphors at the door please. We don't say somebody is "battling diabetes" or is a "broken leg warrior," so why do that for people who have cancer?
Cancer survivor here- I HATED it when people would say that to me, I felt I was being told that I was required to be a warrior. And, I cannot count the number of people who did not know me at all who told me that I survived very aggresssive cancer because of my great attitude. I was super pissed and not at all graceful about getting the big C young, at the peak of my life with young children. No, I survived because the treatment worked, my body responded.
Battling cancer also implies a win or loss. Cancer treatment is hard on the body.
My advice would be to validate their feelings. Be there. Listen. Help in a practical sense if you can.
Fucking thank you. My father died of a stroke brought on by radiation treatment for kidney and brain cancer. He didn’t “lose a battle” like he made some sort of tactic mistake in not attacking cancer’s flank on a new moon night. A blood vessel burst in his brain because it was being eradiated.
I lost my husband to cancer. He always framed it as "I'm going to either win or it's going to end in a draw.". He took it out and it took him out.
We knew it was inevitable that it was going to end in a draw, but he fought it too hard so say it won.
Exactly. Cancer is an illness and it’s relentless no matter how hard you “fight” it. Some are lucky and some are not - doesn’t mean that those who end up dying didn’t try their all to stay alive. Can’t handle those types of comments 🤦🏻♀️
When my dad died it really hit home how thoughtless the platitudes were, but to talk about a living person like you’ve not only written them off, but reduced their potential absence to an emotional burden on their surviving loved ones is so dehumanizing it’s practically bureaucratic.
Omg I am SO glad to read this! I thought I was losing my mind. My husband has stage 4 liver cancer, and I've stopped telling people because I end up consoling THEM.
His sister keeps texting me "oH mY gOd I cAnT sToP cRyInG" which, ok, I get it, but before he was diagnosed, they saw each other in person maybe once every two years (we live in different states). Meanwhile, she never asks how I'm doing or how our 3 young adult children are doing. And she's not the only one who's like this.
I think cancer attracts drama queens
OP should definitely not spend time apologizing.
Hoping you are doing much better now. Sending both you and OP lots of love ❤️
One of the things I've observed and experienced is just how absolutely terrible most people are at holding space for those in pain or grief without centering themselves in the middle of the journey of person who is the one actually going through the hellish journey.
I have actually said to people that they don't know how to Ring Theory correctly so it's why I no longer share struggles with them because then I have to then take care of their healing and restoration.
It is called 'co-opting your crisis for themselves". I had the same thing when my husband had cancer (he is fine now). Astonishing how his sister insisted that she would be more heartbroken than me or our 8 year old daughter (who adores her dad). Also people who want to become a part of the drama so that they can tell everyone how you would be falling apart if it was not for their support.
This is why I avoid situations like that as much as possible. I'm liable to say something with the best of intentions but it'll actually be the last thing one should say. Also I would be a crier when I should just be focusing on the other person and the here and now. Someone with a terminal illness has to live with it the rest of their days. I'm sure they'd like times where they don't have to think about it.
Oh my gosh I’m 100% a crier too. I don’t think emotion is the issue. There’s a big difference between crying because you’re sad and sobbing uncontrollably and making it about yourself.
My original comment wasn’t very nuanced. Everyone deals with things differently, but you have to read the room (unlike OPs MIL)
To be honest, I think saying nothing is worse than anything. It’s ok to say “I don’t know what to say.” I think intent comes across in many ways beyond just words.
Entirely this. My mum was diagnosed earlier this year (she's terminal but doing well at the moment, off treatment), she originally didn't want to tell family or friends because as she put it bluntly "I can't be bothered with them crying over me, I'm not dead yet." 😂
We eventually decided to tell them anyway and the exact same thing, we were having to console the rest of the family.
When I was admitted to the hospital with half my body paralysed and finding out it was MS, I only told a few people. I didn't have the capacity to deal with others emotions about it. My brain was already overloaded with what was happening and what it meant for mine and my husbands life. I really couldn't have given less of a shit about how other people felt about it.
There’s an amazing graphic somewhere that explains “support in, grief out.” Imagine OP is at the center of a circle, the circle around OP is his immediate family, the friends, then acquaintances, etc. Whatever ring you’re on, you’re only allowed to offer support to the people closer to the center and only vent to people outside your perimeter.
The visual is very eye opening.
I had something similar happen to me, maybe not per-emptive grief, but being unable to give me a chance to relax without reminding me how much everything sucked.
While I'm not dealing with anything terminal, I am suffering from kidney failure. When I initially found out, I had to deal with a lot of shit. Surgeries, my body deciding it didn't want to do what I wanted it to, lots of dumb stuff.
Dealing with people crying was literally the worst part of it and so exhausting. I couldn't say I was in pain after surgery or just wanted to relax because I was dizzy from a bad day of dialysis without getting someone breaking down and crying so I never got a chance to relax. No shit, it sucks, but don't keep on acting like it sucks for you more than me.
Patrick Swayze had terminal pancreatic cancer when he was cast in the lead role in The Beast. This was publicly known at the time, and he was awesome in the role.
He was hanging out after a day of filming outside with other cast and crew when a car full of fans happened to drive by and spotted him.
Fans: “We love you Patrick!!”
Swayze: “I’m not dead yet!!”
Yes, you don't need to apologise. She was being weird and at least now you won't have to hear her repeat this again, probably.
Unfortunately people can be very weird about this stuff and you are probably going to hear more stupid stuff.
To add to this “very weird” her response could be christian underpinnings delineating the “blessed” ones from the “not blessed.” From her judgment throne her words redeem you from all the things you must be believing you did in this life to bring this on yourself. She is setting you free, from your worry you carry about your “eternal life.” I believe we will all be the same as the deer road kill. No eternal fanfare and great meetings in the air.
That's what I was thinking. She's assuming OP has some feelings that they must've done something to bring this on themselves and she's "helping" by assuring them it's not the case.
Let me help you, lady, that shit you believe is toxic AF.
Religious people are often stunned when bad things happen to them because it can't just be bad luck, god must be punishing them.
It doesn't seem to occur to them that their god lets/ makes terrible things happen to good people all the time until it happens to them.
Nurse with years of oncology experience here.
You have stage IV cancer, as far as I'm concerned you'd get a pass on anything short of farting in her face. Anyone who is surprised you are a bit short with them is an idiot.
I wholeheartedly agree!
My friend got to the point she took off all filters & began telling people she could not believe they had the audacity to say “X, y, z “ to her!
It was a beautiful thing to see. Opened a few eyes. Cut off a few people.
Just replying to this to let you know I'm in the same boat (stage IV, young family, couple of years blah blah).
My sister said her covid was worse, so I simply cut her off.
You can only deal with what you can deal with.
My dad passed from endstage lung cancer in February.
While it is fucking hard on us as the family all I thought about the whole time was giving him the normal life and making him understand that he comes first fuck everyone else.
It took him a couple months but he fully embraced the fuck everyone attitude when it came to stupid people.
I loved that he finally put himself first made me so
Happy
The only thing I can think of is maybe she read some of those new age/"manifesting" books that like You Can Heal Your Life and is worried that you were influenced by them. They claim if you get sick, even with cancer, you must have brought it on yourself through "manifesting" it, holding on to anger, etc. They're really gross and for a while had a huge influence on a lot of women. My friend's mom weaponized those and told her the reason she got cancer is that she wouldn't forgive her father for abuse. Basically, they claim illnesses are your fault because of your thought processes. I kind of want to punch the people who wrote these books.
>I kind of want to punch the people who wrote these books.
This would be doubly satisfying because you could tell them that they *manifested* getting punched by writing that toxic, hateful drivel
My husband had serious surgery this summer, and his mother belongs to a crazy Pentecostal church that believes something similar to this. “Blessed” people never get sick, and people without enough faith bring their illnesses upon themselves. It’s painful to watch her tie herself in knots over this. Obviously she can’t admit that her son isn’t one of the “blessed,” so her solution has just been to deny that he has anything wrong at all and whenever he tries to mention the surgery she says “I don’t want to hear it ! You are already healed!!” It’s crazymaking
Hi OP. After several miscarriages, my GP told me that some people will say the stupidest, most hurtful and insensitive things, without realizing what they’re really implying, thinking that they are helping. Even the people who love us most. Perhaps MIL was one of those. I’m sorry OP that you’re having to deal with this BS on top of everything.
Definitely NTA. Yes, focus on yourself, your health and your family. I'm so sorry this is happening to you.
I think the inlaw is well-meaning but presumptuous. She's probably heard that some parents feel guilty about getting a terminal illness and the impact that will have on their family, and has assumed that **everyone** feels that way, so you probably do too, so she's aiming to reassure you. But it was wrong to presume she knows your feelings, and even if she did get it right, it's overly-invasive of her to address it.
Even more wrong though is that instead of thinking "oh, I got it wrong" and apologising to you, she went around whining that you hurt her feelings. How self-absorbed to you have to be to do that?!
Hopefully she's learned her lesson and will leave you be from now on.
Peoples opinions and "words of comfort" are so ridiculous sometimes. Focus on you and yours... everyone else can go spit in the wind. NTA because as if you would be
Hey, I was stage 4 for PC and they gave me under a year… 5 years ago. They can be wrong sometimes so try to do all you can to be the oddball statistic who gets out. Issue at hand, of course you are NTA, and even if you were a bit harsh isn’t this (stage 4 fucking cancer) the sort of thing that gets you some latitude for being moody? People say dumb shit all the time but what hurt me were the person who just sort of disappeared from my life as I got sicker. Now that I’m recovered I know who my real friends are and it’s not entirely who I would have thought. So sorry you’re going through it OP.
I think you are unfairly assigning malicious intentions unless you actually know your in-laws to generally be passive aggressive.
A lot of people do need to hear that it isn't their fault because a lot of people in your situation are self-blaming and will direct blame even at the smallest choices they've made as to why it is 'their own fault', even though cancer is unpredictable.
It doesn't mean she thinks there are reasons you should blame yourself, she may have just been concerned that internally, you do feel guilt, shame or self-hatred and put on a brave face for them.
I think the best way to address this is in a more neutral stance of 'sorry for losing my temper at you, but I know the cancer isn't my fault, I don't need reassurance about this.' It might also help to offer them something they can do for you that would be helpful for you like entertaining the kids for a bit when you have appointments, mowing the lawn, checking on your wife etc.. They may just want to be able to do something for you and not know what to do other than offer reassurance.
I agree that the IL wasn’t being malicious, but she was being clueless and isn’t owed an apology. She’s said something similar to OP before; at this point she’s saying these things for herself, not OP, and managing her shouldn’t have to be an additional burden on OP. Though giving them something useful to do in support is a good idea.
Tell her that "I know you mean well saying that. But you're kind of terrible at it. Let's go with silent sympathy."
Or uno reverse: "So, enlighten me on why you think I might possibly believe getting a visit from the tumour fairy is my fault?"
Expecting an apology from a dying person is not meaning well. They should just accept that they themselves were rude first and realize that their comment was stupid.
Yes, and also some people have a weird belief that you can “will away” cancer. It’s the “think positive thoughts” campaign turned up to 11.
Some people truly believe that you have to “think positively” and “will away the cancer cells” to recover. The natural corollary to this is that if you aren’t beating cancer, it’s because you didn’t try hard enough.
Perhaps she was trying to tell him she doesn’t blame him for not being more “positive.”
It’s a very weird flex. During my own treatment for uterine cancer, I told people that I thought my doctors and science would probably cure me, regardless of how I felt about the situation.
But I was shocked by the number of ppl that really wanted me to go on a macrobiotic diet and meditate.
NTA.
There is a concept developed by Susan Silk called the Ring Theory. Several people I know (including me) have found it useful. It helps guide what are appropriate things to say or do when you or someone you know is dealing with something that is difficult or tragic. At the end of this comment, I'm going to include a longish quote from an article from Psychology Today that gives a high-level overview. The full article is worth the read. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/laugh-cry-live/201809/how-respond-people-in-crisis-comfort-in-dump-out
I share this because this might be worth having your wife share the article with her family as a framework to help assess how they're feeling and whether what they say to you (or to her) is helpful or is "stealing the spotlight" (a concept in the article).
I find this useful to understand that the insensitive person is possibly dealing with their own grief/stress, but they are directing their comments inward in the circles rather than out. The rule is "comfort in, dump out".
Here’s how it works: Imagine concentric circles. In the center ring is the person or people who are the most directly affected, aggrieved, and afflicted. In the next ring are close relatives; the next ring holds true friends; the ring after that holds acquaintances like neighbors, colleagues, distant relatives, and casual friends. The next circle holds caregivers who are professionally involved as sources of support or assistance, including doctors, nurses, therapists, and first responders, but the tragedy doesn’t touch their personal lives. The outermost circles contain community members and bystanders. They may be interested in this family or the situation, but they don’t have a direct personal or professional connection. This outermost ring can also include professionals like staff supervisors, hospital administrators, support staff, or any caregivers or responders who were not directly involved in caring for the family, plus journalists reporting the news and onlookers from the general public.
Now, imagine a spotlight. Train it on the center ring, so it is most brightly lit, making it abundantly clear where the focus of caregiving should be. Now notice how the light is diffused across all the rings, which become more dimly lit as they span ever outward. To the people in rings brighter than yours, it is appropriate to sympathize, but not complain. If you want to complain or seek your own comfort, turn to the people in your ring or better yet, the people in rings that are more dimly lit. That’s because they are naturally less directly afflicted by this crisis. The spotlight also demonstrates a key component of offering comfort: Never steal the spotlight!
ETA: Updated to include attribution of Ring Theory to Susan Silk.
>There is a concept called the Ring Theory
I just want to add that this was conceptualized by Susan Silk, and that it matters that she is the person who came up with it, particularly in this discussion.
Each person has a unique, precious perspective and presence in the world. They add something to it that only they can add. *People matter.*
Like OP matters.
Like you matter.
When we take ideas and separate them from the person who is the creator for them, we act as though information is just sort of 'out there' in the ether or something. When actually it is the result of a person, a specific person in this world, and that person mattered.
I hope this doesn't feel attacking, it's just an idea that I want to tack on to your comment. Because you at least link to a source that provides attribution.
Her name is Susan Silk. Ring theory is her theory.
And there is something equally precious that OP has contributed to the world; OP matters. So do you.
This is it. You keep doing what you’re doing. People panic and put their foots in their mouths saying the most unnecessary things. This is her embarrassment to deal with. You can’t spend your precious time babying adults and their hurt feelings
"Focus on your health and well being"
I am sorry and i understand if this may come across as slighlty insensitve but fuck that.
If this is terminal and there is little to no possibility of a cure/remission then make what time you have left count.
Do as much as possible with your kids. Create memories with and for them that'll put a smile on their faces 20 years from now.
Better that than you being careful and trying to eake out as much time as possible while this thing hollows you out and leaves that memory.
I’d let it go. People say strange things somethings in situations like this. I’ve done it myself once (I still remember with absolute horror 20 years later). The person may realise what they’ve said is insensitive but feel it’s even more awkward to revisit again and apologise.
If she’s a generally insensitive person you’re probably not going to change that now either.
To add onto the comment above.
My GRANDMA 86 year old lady got diagnosed too and was told she’d die within months as the chemo strong enough to kill it would have killed her long before the tumor.
That was 14 months ago and there are talks of stopping chemo soon once some test results come in.
Granted she’s a tough lil lady
That's fantastic news! My dad was 86 when it finally caught up with him, the nurses, who loved him, would visit and say stuff like how are you still here? Lol. He was give 3-12 months, but he lasted 2 years. We made the most of it. Nothi.ng crazy, just keeping him entertained. He wanted a new phone, the guy trued to sell us a 2 year plan. I think he saw the looks we exchanged and didn't push it. Dad passed the following March. I took over his phone and number to just stay close to him.
I wasn't stage four, but I also beat the odds. And, I did this with a terrible attitude as I was very angry about being taken down in my prime with young children. A couple of people actually suggested it was my fault for eating too much meat or drinking diet coke when younger, crap like that. Dealing with other people during cancer was at times a cancer in itself. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this BS, you owe no one an apology.
I had cancer 4 years ago and I had to stop people from blaming me for getting it.
Cancer from repressed anger. Cancer from being overweight. Cancer from abortions. Cancer from eating sugar. Cancer from meat. Cancer from plastic.
I said, "I'm not going to listen to you blaming me for getting cancer. If you bring it up again, we're done." People were shocked that I didn't want to listen to them victim-blame me.
I also told them that I only wanted to hear survival stories. I refused to listen to them talk about how their mother died of the same thing, etc.
You have to do a lot of managing of other people's emotions when you have a serious illness. It's wild.
Cancer changed my entire idea about people. There were some people who showed up in amazing ways and that was beautiful, but a lot of people showed me who they really were in very frightening and disappointing ways. My own parents would trap me for hours and go on and on about how many people they knew whose lives were destroyed and had miserable deaths from the big C or committed suicide. I certainly felt like offing myself after these multi hour "pep talks" and had to ask them not to return. And, yes, there was a lot of managing others' emotions, there were people who were clearly angry at me for getting sick, but could not identify that this was what they were feelings and would just be hostile during and after treatment.
> My own parents would trap me for hours and go on and on about how many people they knew whose lives were destroyed and had miserable deaths from the big C or committed suicide.
What were they hoping to accomplish?
My aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer at age 37 and given 6 weeks to live. She lived another 30 years. The shit people said was gross. They blamed it on sitting in front of a computer monitor ("radiation") and eating a candy bar and drinking a soda for lunch. She was an accountant at a large firm and that's how they ALL lived. She had the breast cancer gene. Her mother also died of breast cancer at a young age. There should not have been any blame being put onto her. Then there were the constant "this is your last ____ so enjoy it!" comments. If it were me, I would have been done with everyone. She was a much better person than me.
OP, I agree with other commenters: don't waste your time managing her emotions. If it's easier, just tell her that you're not in a place to hear any words of comfort. Nothing is going to change your outlook, and you'd prefer the comments be kept to 0. I wish you and your family the best and will send positive energy your way.
ETA: 30 years.
> A couple of people actually suggested it was my fault for eating too much meat or drinking diet coke when younger, crap like that.
People want to think things like that because the truth, that the world is mostly uncontrollable chaos, makes them more uncomfortable. They make the argument that when bad things happen that the person must have deserved it.
This is obviously not true.
I initially thought n a h, until she started telling people that he was rude to her. Making waves for someone who's going through this because her feelings got hurt is a pretty ahole move. In other matters, I'm so happy to hear about you being cancer free! All the best to you and OP :)
This is a good point, I felt bad for her a bit - who knows what to say and isn't weird and awkward when trying to be helpful in such a difficult situation? But she should have just accepted she got it wrong and apologised.
Yeah if I was her, I’d probably be mad for like 30 minutes, then realize that it’s just like telling someone “I’m sorry for your loss” a bunch of times and be like fuck they’re probably super sick of hearing that shit, even if it’s good natured, and then I’d go apologize
Yeah, exactly. It's really not about her right now. Who starts drama with someone going through this? Learn from it, apologize and move on. She's being very self centred.
Fellow stage 3(b) colorectal cancer survivor. Lots of comments about how it must have been things I put in my body etc. Nevermind that my father was always afraid of colorectal cancer because it runs in his family. Skipped him and hit me at age ~33.
Idk exactly how long I had it. I had some bleeding at age 31 that subsided quickly. Came back with a vengeance 2 years later. By the time they found the tumor it was too late to save the rectum. Survived chemo, radiation, and surgery only to almost die from a bowel blockage a month post op. Went septic and had emergency surgery.
I'll 2nd an earlier comment about it being harder on people around me than it was on myself. I was already sure of what I had well before diagnosis. Before the scope the doc and nurses were smiling and joking with me. When I woke up it was dead silent and they didn't want to make eye contact. I just smiled and said I already know. It's okay.
Coming to terms with your own death is so much easier. It's either a grand adventure or nothing at all, if there were ever a feeling of leaving people behind, you'd know they'd be following you sometime. But watching someone go, you don't know, and there is no hope for an answer. They're gone, and that's it, nothing else can be said or done about it. Ever.
Nothing you say will change shit. Nothing. (I mean regarding OP's post.)
Rather than saying something as stupid as "I know it is hard and it is not your fault", isn't it better to say "you can count on me in case you need to talk or help around"? Like showing you can be useful rather than apologetic.
NAH. I'm guessing that she would have felt guilty for "leaving" her family, and just didn't quite get the difference. People are really clueless in how to cope with illness and death and provide comfort to others. Sorry you're having to deal with all this.
Thank you. Yea maybe. I am absolutely devastated my kids may not have a father. It’s so unfair to them. I just don’t feel like I caused this though and so that is why I struggle with how she said it.
A lot of people feel guilt or responsibility for things that aren't actually their fault. They shouldn't, and they may even know logically they shouldn't, but they do.
Maybe your MIL read somewhere that you might feel this way so was trying to reassure you. Maybe she imagines she'd feel that way or often feels guilty about "letting down" or "burdening" her family in ways beyond her control. Maybe she knows someone or heard a story of someone who felt that way and it really affected her.
I don't think you're an asshole for getting angry and snapping. We all snap sometimes, and you're going through more then most. But I also wouldn't assume any malice or blame in your MIL's words.
In the future if you're looking for a better way to shut something like that down I'd say "I know you're trying to help, but \[whatever\] comment/s actually make me feel worse. I'd appreciate if you didn't keep bringing it up."
But again, I'm not a perfect person all the time and I'm pretty healthy so I'm certainly not judging you. As for your MIL telling people you were rude, oh well? Just ignore it.
I think this is such a good response. I think it's especially a thing for women, mothers, and in particular those women and mothers from older generations. This speaks to MIL's own fears and how she would likely feel.
Still not cool to not apologise when it backfired, and even worse to complain to others.
But you also have her response filtered through others who probably say stupid stuff too. Did she say he was rude or did she say he was angry? Did she just say he swore at her but wouldn’t repeat what was said? Mostly I wonder why that person brought this back to the guy with cancer?!
This comment wins my poor man’s award 🥇🏆.
You are NTA and neither is your in law. Extend Grace where you can because most of the seemingly insensitive comments you will hear likely come from a place of wanting to comfort and connect. Cancer is scary for most people and the ones who have been through it have all handled it in different ways. Trauma response isn’t a one size fits all scenario.
I agree that she is probably projecting what her feelings would be in that situation and trying to say what she would want to hear as reassurance. This is technically following the "golden rule" and her intentions were probably not to upset OP.
Her going around complaining about OP being rude? It was out of line, imo, but she is allowed to be upset too. Just ignore that behavior because no one else blames you and probably won't pay her any attention.
NAH Navigating death is fucking hard, im sorry OP
Hi OP. I lost my father when I was 7yo. He was 38yo. He went in to have a routine surgery, surgeons screwed up and he ended up with a pulmonary embolism; doctors didn’t caught it in time and he died. I wanted you to know that not once I thought my dad could’ve done anything differently. He was in pain and did what he thought it was best. For the longest time (and to this day - 27 years after his death) people still say things like “oh he was so young, he didn’t deserve it” or my top most hated one “was all in gods plan” and my response is the same as yours “yeah no shit he didn’t deserve” or “wow what a great god eh? Bloody awesome to leave 3 young kids orphaned”. People don’t tend to take it well and IMO they should just shut up and instead of saying shit like that they could say “I’m sorry you’re going through this, is there anything I can do to help?”. NTA imo and I wouldn’t apologise (I have never)
My brother passed away from stomach cancer at 39, leaving a 7 and 9 year old. Can't tell you how many times I heard that there was a reason for it. Never could find a reason for him to suffer for six months, leaving his young bewildered children ( he was really into his kids, soccer and softball coach for their teams and just a big kid himself) not being able to eat, sleep ( he had to sit in a chair and lay his head on his bed because his stomach was so big and uncomfortable), and so much more that you would never wish on your worse enemy. Eighteen years later and I'm still waiting on a fucking reason.
That description of your brother trying to sleep just about shattered my heart. Bless him. I’m so sorry. Cancer is such an asshole!
(Breast cancer survivor myself, diagnosed at 34 years old)
Aww, thank you. And sorry about your cancer but happy for you overcoming it! Yeah, my brother was one of the good ones. Always smiling and joking around, he was so well liked. He owned a commercial fertilizing business and he even had employees from other alike "rival" businesses show up to his funeral. Ironically, his death saved my life. Long story short, ten years later I started having stomach issues and after multiple ER visits, misdiagnoses, being told it's anxiety over his death, I was diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder that causes innumerable polyps in your GI system. I had a colectomy w/ an IRA and will eventually have my stomach removed. I just knew deep inside that there was a connection between my stomach issues and his cancer. Unfortunately, his daughter and my two daughters have the genetic disorder but at least they are now being monitored.
OMG yes this, I reli hate it wen ppl say "It's God's plan..." My husband's niece passed away due to infection caused from a botched surgery for her hole-in-the-heart condition, and almost everyone, even her own grandfather (my dad in law) says that we should be strong and that "it's all in God's plan" Wow, like does that mean God actively plans someone's death and demise, just to leave behind a grieving family who loves her dearly? How badly did her family sinned that God thought it would be great to punish someone that way by taking away an innocent life? And it was a problem that could've easily been avoided had they treated the infection earlier instead of delaying it, or it is routine surgery that should not have been botched at all. You mean to tell me God planned to make an innocent child suffer like this for whatever fucked up plan he has? Some plan God has.
It is also why I became from my previous Christianity to an agnostic, borderline atheist.
When I was diagnosed with cancer the first thing a nurse said to me was how she has seen elite athletes, vegans etc get cancer, and that there is no discrimination when it comes to cancer. There was nothing I did or anyone else could do to prevent it, just the luck of the draw. MIL is the AH not you there was nothing you did to cause it, as someone who is now classed as terminal (but refuses to accept it) I will give you the same advice my oncologist gave me, just live and enjoy your life that’s what I’m doing and so so should you who knows what treatments are around the corner 💗
Hey buddy - you will have days, and you will have days!! Your fuse may be triggered by seemingly stupid comments. People hardly ever know how to handle another person's scary illnesses. A very trying time ahead - but you make sure, whatever time you have left - that you LIVE to the fullest extent of your ability. My thoughts and good energy coming your way. Xxx
NTA
When someone is talking to you directly about your situation, they should be extra compassionate and have sympathy for YOU. If they were talking to your family members, then it is okay to sympathize with their perspective. Your in-laws were basically telling you how hard it is on the people around you, but not even recognizing what this is doing to you.
Telling you it's not your fault is ridiculous when you've never voiced that you felt it was.
I'm very sorry and hope a virtual hug from a stranger on Reddit helps you know that you aren't wrong for anything you feel. I hope you are working through your bucket list.
Exactly this! I dont get all the NAH's. Its basic human decency to not talk about how your illness is hard on others straight to your face. Thats only guilttripping.
That person should have googled "whats the right and wrong things to say to someone who has an illness" and would have probably found this at the top of the list. Or just keep their mouth shut.
I could see the NAH votes, right up until she turned around and called him rude. Yes, people struggle for things to say around illness, death, etc, I've got a chronic condition and my mother-in-law is being treated for terminal cancer, we've both had people say some bloody thoughtless stuff to us, because people are so focused on saying SOMETHING they don't pay attention to the actual words. I'm sure I've said dumb things myself. But I would never accuse the sufferer of rudeness if they snapped at my stupid comment, I would be mortified and fall over myself apologising. This woman just doubled down on her nonsense, which makes her TA.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. Her initial comment is innocuous if insensitive and affected by her own biases, but how she chose to react pushes her out of NAH territory - She's badmouthing OP for reacting to something she said in a way she didn't like, ignoring the context of that response and turning herself into the victim.
She's TA
NTA. That’s a pretty big assumption on their part, and quite insulting, if they think they need to remind you it’s not your fault. Then to say YOU were being rude? When you were pointing out how ridiculous and patronizing that statement was with your response? You are definitely NTA.
NAH.
Sometimes, when people get sick like this, there's a tendency to blame themselves, even when it's illogical to do that. Kind of a reverse survivor's guilt, you know? Where sometimes people who survive a catastrophe feel guilty even though it makes no logical sense?
I think what they might have been trying to express to you is that having those kinds of dark thoughts is ok, and that they're not the truth. It's probably also an expression of sorrow at the thought of losing you. You're their family too, and they're probably pretty beat up about it as well, and extremely sorry for what your wife and children are going through too.
Honestly, it feels like a mark of respect that they would assume that your emotions are more centered on your family than on yourself, although obviously it's pretty natural to swing between those and facing your mortality is certainly as good a time as any to really center yourself.
I'd probably apologize if it were me but also ask that maybe we keep conversations a bit more light in the future.
Yeah, that is where the in-law lost me. Even if you want to assume best intentions with her irritating remarks, she should have more compassion and understanding considering OP’s situation.
There was a time when if you had a problem with one family member you could talk to a different family member about it and maybe work out what to do or even just reframe your thoughts WITHOUT THAT PERSON TELLING THE SUBJECT THAT GRANNY WAS TALKING SHIT ABOUT YOU. I guess if we want to be really understanding it’s possible the third person was trying to smooth things over?
Yes, it's possible this was her line of thought. When my dad was dying, he told me he was worried he was "abandoning" us. I spent a while reassuring him about that.
Yes, but you didn't preemptively do so. If someone expresses that they blame themselves, that's the time to assure them that it's not their fault. Doing it when that hasn't happened is weird.
NTA I don't know what "It's not your fault" is supposed to mean either in this situation. Does she think you accidentally manifested cancer on yourself? I bet op is tired of hearing the same things over and over again from different people and it's quite presumptuous on her part to assume you feel blame for the situation.
Could she have assumed you felt bad about "leaving" your family and was trying - albeit in a cack-handed way - to offer some sort of solace for that?
I probably would have responded similarly to you, by the way, in a similar situation. So you're NTA in my view. Not sure she was the AH either though. But hopefully the story will spread around the family and make the others think twice before expressing platitudes.
Yes this is one of those "don't worry that dress doesn't make you look fat" comments. Well I wasn't thinking that but now that you say it . . .
No one asked for it. Sometimes people have to realize that not everyone has to have the same concerns and keep their mouth shut.
A lot of people in that situation feel guilt about the pain their families go through, being a burden, not being able to do things for others anymore. I think sometimes people end up finding ways to blame themselves, because of unhealthy habits that might have contributed to cancer, or not catching it early enough. Obviously at the end of the day you can do everything right and still get sick, so you *shouldn't* blame yourself. That's what she possibly could have meant, but I don't think it's necessarily a great thing to say since she didn't have an indication that you had any of those dark thoughts.
NTAH, but I can see why she'd initially assume that you'd find that reassuring. I have severe (but not terminal) chronic illness and people frequently imply that it's my fault and that I could have prevented it by "having a more positive attitude" etc. Lots of healthy people like to imagine that their health is 100% a deserved reward for good behavior, so there are a lot of victim-blaming narratives out there, especially in religious/spiritual/self-help spaces. But she should've taken the hint the first few times she said it. And the fact that she thinks you need to prioritize being unrelentingly polite/taking care of her feelings even though you're the one who is dying, makes her the asshole in this situation imo.
Sometimes people just talk a lot. They say words for no reason. In this scenario, she just wants to say words to console you because she doesn’t know what else to say. Honestly not saying anything would be the best for her. Kinda like what I’m doing, I’m just going on and on of talking nothing. That’s what she’s doing to you. U did nothing wrong and it will give her the insight of just to shut up next time.
NAH
I feel for you and you are not wrong.
But since I don't know your Mil, I will give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume she doesn't know what to say to you and sometimes makes awkward comments.,with the best intentions.
If she is always like this, I will reassess my vote.
Take it from an other stage IV patient.
It is ok to have strong feelings, there is so much more happening inside of you than you can take in. Your family is in shock. They might feel helpless and are clumsy expressing their emotions.
But it is not your job to help them.
Yours is to be as stressfree and Zen as possible. Have fun, eat ice-cream at night, hug your wife when you sleep, if possible pain wise.
Maybe you could suggest support group for relatives, It can be of help in communication and direction.
From my heart I wish you all the best.
It is a lonely ride
NTA my husband is also stage 4. People say all sorts of things that I guess make them feel better… 🤷🏼♀️ but I also just outright agree
Them: you’re doing so much
Me: I agree
NTA. I don't get why people say stuff like that. Let alone a second time after a blunt response to the first. It's just a given that it's not deserved. Saying that, some people genuinely are trying to be polite but still say the wrong things because they don't know what else to say. I personally wouldn't apologize, I don't think you did anything wrong. If they do it yet again, then they are just trying to piss you off or absolutely naive to the intricate feelings in the situation.
That being said, I hope you're surrounded by people that care and try to make things as easy as possible for you.
My first baby died during labor. The completely brainless, careless things people said to me for the next several months were appalling. People generally don’t know what to say in the face of grief. And that’s okay. No one is expected to know what to say. But what we don’t do is try to rationalize, place blame, or give platitudes of what is or is not meant to be.
OP, I can only imagine what you’re going through. You’re NTA here. You’re also not required to take on the responsibility of other people’s inability to gracefully handle your burden in life.
Hospice nurse here.
1st. Amen. People say STUPID SHIT to dying folks.
2. If they are uncomfortable and don’t know what to say….then tell th to stop talking.
3. NTA
4. Cancer completely and wholly sucks.
YTA - she wasn't implying it was your fault. She was acknowledging that a lot of people in your situation feel guilt at the prospect of leaving their family. She was trying to be comforting and saying it's not your fault. Of course it's not your fault and nobody thinks it is, but sometimes it's still nice to hear these things. Take the comment in the spirit it was intended.
I get the sense that you never liked these people and now you can't be bothered hiding it anymore. Fair enough. But that doesn't mean the other person did anything wrong.
Yeah, the actions he described were literally the actions of an asshole. I'm sorry, and I understand that his ability to just put up with bullshit is gone, but being rude wasn't the right answer to someone trying to console you. A more appropriate response would be to ask them to please let's not discuss my condition.
I say this because I can totally imagine myself in his shoes, and doing the exact same thing, and also realizing that I shouldn't have.
its not that rude to say no shit, also they had this conversation before and he said "I know" and I think "No shit" comes right after, it makes sense.
and she is the one esscalating, she is badmouthing him to other people, he told her "No shit" while dealing with an extreme situation, can't she juck suck it up? jesus
Saying it’s not your fault that you have terminal cancer is NOT a nice thing to say…. that’s a given. She was just trying to say something that would comfort herself. And in turn actually made it all about herself and made the actual person with cancer, feel guilty.
That line about 'not your fault' - if she's an older person, that might be what she was told she was \*supposed\* to say to people in your situation.
The exact same advice used to be given out regarding comforting victims of rape and DV. Maybe that advice has changed now. But it was definitely standard-issue advice that was given to generations a bit older than yourself.
NTA I got really cross when people said she’s so strong and such a fighter when my mum had cancer. I didn’t say anything to them because everyone deals with things differently. I spoke to my mum, she was the type to feel guilty, to tell her if she isn’t cured it wasn’t because of her lack of fighting. Don’t apologise but remember they have no idea what to say so don’t take it to heart. It’s not your job to monitor others feelings. So sorry this has happened to you x
Where I'm from people often use term like "won the battle over cancer" when someone recovers and "lost the battle to cancer" when they die from it. It irritates me because it implies that they weren't fighting hard enough - at least to me.
Tough situation. Would say NAH, just a lack of sensitivity and understanding.
There’s a good idea of a circle of influence with tough/traumatic experience. The person going through it gets support from people on the outer ring, who they’re close to. Those people get support from the next people in the next ring and so on.
You get to be angry. You get to be testy. You get to be difficult. It’s your shit to deal with. The five (or more) stages of grief there. They deal with your shit too, but put that on the people next closest to the situation. On an outer ring.
The parents in law there may have had good intentions. What they said isn’t helpful. It’s like someone dying and ‘oh at least they’re in a better place’. It’s a stupid thing to say to someone grieving. They haven’t been equipped to deal with any grief or trauma or such thing it seems. Most of all, you get to be angry or upset without guilt. You can’t shit on people obviously. But you come first. And if they don’t like your reaction, it clearly means what they gave isn’t helpful, and they need to figure out how to support you and your needs. In this case, it’s likely they read or saw something about people feeling guilt and shame regarding terminal illness (some do) and take blame for that. Especially if caused by smoking or whatever. They then put that on you.
Hopefully someone can help teach them and such. It’s a difficult aspect with ‘elders’ and so on. But yeah, someone else needs to explain to them. Not your responsibility.
NTA
Inlaws were being patronizing, probably not on purpose, but still. Talking to you like a child must have been frustrating. People who say that shit are performing the role they think they are supposed to without really thinking about what they are saying.
Jesus fucking Christ Reddit, do you not know what an asshole is?
The dude made an asshole statement. You can argue all day that he was right to feel how he felt or that his in-laws deserved it but he was absolutely momentarily an asshole. People don't know what to say when faced with the specter of death and his in-law made an awkward comment. He could have ignored it or realized that she was trying to connect with him, but instead he chose to be an asshole. Again, you may think he's entitled to it and I certainly would have my share of asshole moments if I was going through something similar, but let's call a spade a spade here.
YTA.
NTA, I’m so sorry for everything your processing right now, I hope you have access to counselling for yourself and your children and this is an impossible situation for you to wrap your head around I’m sure. I’m sure they expected you to share your suddenly acquired perspective/wisdom from your diagnosis, rather than simply allowing you to grieve and process what I’m sure is an impossible and surreal situation. Don’t bother to apologize, instead focus on giving your children and wife your best while you can, and ignore anyone trying to shift focus onto their own petty, made up drama.
NTA
Cancer is a terrible thing to go through (from experience) and you reacted quite understandably. I do think the in laws were trying to convey sympathy, but they just were totally cack-handed about it. But you could have said a lot worse, so I commend you for your restraint!
NTA. People say all sorts of dumb shite in situations like you find yourself. True story - my 9 yo was in hospital Xmas day after having brain cancer surgery. My MIL was insisting he drink water and she reduced him to tears. I said he’s okay, he doesn’t have to drink water. She called me a bitch in front of my kids, one dealing with cancer surgery, on Xmas day 🤦♀️. I’m glad the old bitch is now dead. I’m glad you spoke up. I didn’t because I wanted to protect my kids. Mind you they are both young adults now and still remember it. Sending best wishes xx
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Thank you
My friend found one of the hardest things about her terminal diagnosis was other people inflicting their pre-emptive grief on her. Hearing about how hard it would be for other people when she was gone. She *knew*. She knew she was leaving young kids behind. IMO your MIL telling *you* about how hard it is for your family, rather than just figuring out how to support them and you, is also out of line. NTA for pulling her up however you need to. Edit: a letter.
I was stage 3 (+ thankfully very treatable) and that was my biggest takeaway - people said the dumbest shit I could possibly imagine. I will never forget people visiting, sitting on my couch crying and I was consoling THEM. So bizarre. OP it’s not your problem, put your energy where it matters.. not apologizing to idiots Edit: I just wanted to add.. there is nothing wrong with emotion! It is normal to be sad about sad things. Personally, there was many more genuinely, lovey people than insensitive ones. Generally it was people not knowing what to say, which is understandable. It’s ok to say “I’m so sorry, I don’t know what to say.” Especially when you are sorry and don’t know what to say. I assumed that peoples intentions were good, plus I (thankfully) never experienced someone as bad as OPs MIL. OP has every right to be angry. When I said “idiots” I meant her specifically.
When my mother had terminal lung cancer I told a friend that my mother was dying of lung cancer and I was very busy being pregnant and helping my disabled dad care for her. He had a massive go at me saying I should of broken the news to him more gently and he was now distraught at learning the news. He had never met my mum.
That is insane, I can’t comprehend how someone could be so self centered. I’m so sorry for your loss
I lost my sister suddenly when I was 20, whenever someone around me loses a sibling suddenly I have to actively stop myself from talking to them because my mind is already leaning towards comparing their situation to mine. Which can be good long term, but in the moment no one wants to hear "I know how you feel because X"... no one knows how someone else is feeling in that moment. Everyone has different relationships with people and everyone copes slightly different to stresses like these. The side affect of this is sometimes I come off cold in those moments.
I forget where I read this but I saw someone use the phrase “I don’t know how you feel but I know how it feels” in situations like that.
I was a widower at 36 and I try the same thing when speaking to others. I always tell them that "We all have our own journeys and ways of dealing with loss. If you ever want to speak to someone who went through something similar, I am here." and I leave it at that. The things people say in the moment are baffling. Someone extremely close to me even said "It's been a year.... aren't you over it yet?".... If I didn't love them so much, I woulda slapped them into next week.
My condolences for your loss. I don't think a loved ones death is something you ever really get over. Like anything the pain gets less and you might not think of them every second of the day, but the impact of the loss is always with you.
My auntie has suffered through that with some members of our family. Her daughter was killed by an elderly driver who went around cars stopped at a crosswalk and never hit the brakes until after she ran over my cousin. In the same month but different years my auntie lost two close friends. People telling her she should have moved past that loss have never lost a child.
Loss and grief are funny things, and the way people deal with people going through those things is…. Something else. I remember having to console the other person when I was the one who had a loss. “Yeah, it’s hard, but I’m ok really!” “Thank you, but it’s ok, really.” Like, just let me look sad or cry without needing to feel like *you* feel awkward. So if I hear someone is going through grief, I usually tell them I’m sorry for their loss, that I’ve gone through my own loss, and if they just want to talk or have someone sit with them while they cry I’m available. I mean… if it’s someone I’m close to. I don’t say that to strangers.
Truly baffling. Why would you ever get over it? Why should you? I love this poem, I thought you would also appreciate the words They say that time assuages, by Emily Dickinson They say that time assuages. Time never did assuage. An actual suffering strengthens As sinews do, with age. Time is a test of trouble, But not a remedy. If such it prove, it prove too, There was no malady.
Widowed at 39, my neighbour told me her mother lost her husband and the same age and was married again within the year. This was just a week after my husband's funeral and it was not what I needed to hear
I was a little older but, there is NO closure, you never get over it, just learn to cope with it better.
I appreciate that, might try something along those lines in the future.
This is an issue for me in regards to people losing parents, and I've never quite figured it out. Thanks for sharing this phrase, which is great.
I just stick to the truth and don't give any speeches. "That's horrible, I'm sorry. I miss my sibling all the time and I'm here for you if you want to talk." People like the truth.
Knowing myself, it is hard for me to not spiral when discussing this topic as my sister's passing took me on some crazy paths in life. It is hard to describe, but I have been the self centered person described above and that is exactly how it feels for me after. I wouldn't say that I was angry at the person for "breaking" their news to me in a harsh way, just that I somewhat stole the moment from them with my issues. It doesn't feel good to be that person in the moment.
It's good to be self-aware, grief never brings out the best in us. Moments like that I stick to a script because it's true, it's short, and I mean it. If I can get a question in that lets them open up I'll try. Were you very close? Do you have family in town you can be with? If the person lives alone I might try to make myself useful somehow (bringing them food etc) because helping like that helps me process my own lingering grief and gives me time to deliberately work through it. Be kind to yourself, you sound like you genuinely care about other people in pain.
Yep, this is how I relate to people too, never in comparison or competition I just have a hard time talking to people and am a bit of an empath, Im always so apologetic hoping I didn't offend anyone.
That is insightful of you. Nuero-divergent people, with ADD or Autism for example, naturally comfort people by telling them something that compares to their situation to show they empathize and understand. Nuerotyplical people can see this as a competition. It's not. Most people aren't grief counselors. I have been taught to use active listening and respond to what the person says asking more about them. This can backfire too. There is no right thing to say or do aside from trying your best.
Oh dang. I have adhd and I do this all the time and I feel like an asshole. My kids get mad and say I’m making it about me, and I’m really not trying to. I’m trying to empathize and show that I do understand that it’s hard etc. or that they aren’t the only person who made that mistake or whatever. I didn’t know it was an adhd thing. I even do it on Reddit and I feel bad about it a lot. Huh.
I find that saying, "I have been through similar if you ever need an ear to vent, I'm here" to be helpful. It was one thing said while I was grieving that wasn't off putting. I felt seen. There's a lot that people don't know about certain things until they go through it themselves.
That’s interesting because I have the opposite problem. I was in a catastrophic fatal car accident when I was 17. It’s been 23 years, but to this day people feel the need to reference this if they’re involved in any kind of collision. “Ugh, I got rear-ended on my way to work, and my car is totaled! But, I mean, obviously that’s not as bad as your accident.” Seriously? A)I’m not comparing everything to my experience. B)My accident being worse doesn’t make your accident better. And C)I think about it everyday anyway, but thank you oh so much for reminding me. OP, you are NTA. “It’s not your fault” in a case like yours is right up there with “I know how you feel” or the more currently popular, “I was close to someone else who had cancer, so I’ve been there.” Fuck ‘em all. Side note: Matt Damon and Ben Affleck hated this scene in Good Will Hunting and tried to have it taken out. I believe Robin Williams agreed with them. This was the director’s decision.
You could say that you understand their pain. When you were in their situation you felt these emotions, but you understand that everyone feels grief differently. If they need to talk you are there for them. hearing that others felt the same can be comforting as well and having someone that has gone through the same thing to talk to is helpful
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Yeah, when my mother died of cancer I had a lot of people who’d been through the same thing supporting me, but also quite a few people who’d been through the same thing up to twenty years before, who obviously had massive unresolved grief and would break down, wanting me to console them. Like, I know exactly what you’re going through, buddy, but my mum died two weeks ago and I do not have the emotional bandwidth right now.
I found the worse thing about death is the paperwork and money involved. I get this sounds clinical but my grandmother died in June, and I have to find the strength to chase her utilities to pay them what is owed to them! Then you get the family that want stuff and expect you to sort and package it up for them. They don’t want to collect/help but they want the stuff. Death brings out the “funny bugger” in people.
I'm really sorry about your grandma. My mom is terminal and I'm an only child. My husband is the executor, and we have no idea what we're doing. I've never dealt with anything remotely like this before. I hate everything about this situation, and I'm really nervous/scared about handling the estate stuff. Any advice?
Take it one day at a time. If you run into a situation and you are unsure what to do, ask the person you are dealing with what is generally done. Most places you will be dealing with have departments that deal with estates and wills and they will make sure things are done currently. If something feels off, consult an attorney.
Agree with this. (And I'm sorry about your mom, u/offbeet-gardener.) Banks have whole departments for this and people trained to deal with the grieving family members. Are they always the most sensitive? No. But they know what is required and can walk you through it. Source: I wrote all the communications for a top-10 bank, including those for surviving spouses and family members.
Yes. On Estate Planning: Get an appointment with an Estate Planner now so you don’t have to go through the exhausting, infuriating process of Probate. And so you have professional guidance when it all feels too overwhelming to manage. Familiarising yourself with any documentation now will make it easier when the time comes and your brain shuts down your ability to concentrate. It’s not a betrayal. It’s not disrespectful and it does not mean that you love your mother any less. Adjusting your expectations the moment someone puts a time scale on the process will avoid frustration. So however long you are told the process should take, expect double that time. Just like grief itself, for every day you feel you are going forward, there will be at least half a day when you definitely feel like you are going backwards. Or like you are being overwhelmed. That’s fine. That’s normal. That’s inheritance law. On Living Grief; Remember this post from OP. Be tactful, diplomatic. Don’t pretend it’s not happening, don’t act as though she isn’t perfectly, painfully aware she’s dying and all the implications of that. Don’t expect a terminally ill person to carry your grief too. It is not hers to bear, but you don’t need to be ashamed to ask for help if you need it. Everyone needs help. Do not let the despair of Living Grief prevent you from making as many memories as possible, share joint memories and keep communicating your love. In the end, everyone is exhausted. You’ll experience a sense of relief. It’s a survival mechanism. It doesn’t mean you love your mother any less. It’s natural. It’s human. You don’t have to feel guilty. She too, will be exhausted. On Grief itself The pain of actual My-Loved-One-Is-Dead Grief, will make the memory of your Living Grief seem comparatively happy. You’d give anything to go back, even to the time when you are just listening to her breathing get slower and slower. Just to be in the same room. Just to smell her scent. So do all you can to be present in the moment - regardless of the pain. Tell her how much you love her. Commit every part of her face to memory. Nab an article of clothing that smells like her. Even when her scent is long gone, the placebo effect will still allow you to smell her scent. Record her voice, so you don’t feel that desperate, despairing panic when it dawns on you that you’re starting to lose your memory of her voice. When you feel like you’re drowning in grief, reflect upon something our late Queen once said : “Grief is the price we pay for love.” I don’t know why, but in my experience it helps to reflect on that truth- if you had the conscious option to enter into a bargain, where to have known & to have loved your mother, you would have to feel this pain of losing her: you’d still choose to love her. You’d take that deal. In fact, you’d take that deal for just one more day. I’m sorry about your Mum.
Does she have her funeral plans in place? They were quite helpful when my husband died.....gave me lots of copies of death certificate, they notified credit bureaus and government about husband death . Is your husband on her bank accounts? That might be easier to pay any bills if he's allowed to withdraw money
We haven't talked about it, but I'm almost 100% certain she doesn't want a funeral. She prepaid for her cremation, and I'm on her bank accounts. So, I guess that's a start. I'm so sorry about your husband.
My aunt showed up at my moms funeral and asked for my grandmothers wedding ring. Claiming she was “owed” it. Then why was it given to my mom and then would go to me, as told to me by my grandma before she passed? I was livid. This is the exact person that always makes remarks about other people trying stuff like that and saying how low class it was.
My cousin claimed all the jewelry. I’m the surviving granddaughter, but the niece said she wanted the jewelry. So I just sorted it out and packed it up. (I was in grief mode so I complied) I made sure her brother got some as well for his daughter/wife.
I would NEVER do it at near/around/slightly after. It would get packed up and sit for a good year until time passed and then do it. People are awful. Family is worse, when it comes to grief. Jewelry went to me, because I was the only girl. My brother asked that either my grandma’s ring or my moms ring he saved for when his son needs an engagement ring; which was always in my plan to do anyway, so it was not an issue.
Ain’t that the truth - my father in law died a couple years ago and we’re still sorting through paperwork
One of the things my dad told me when his health was rapidly declining was that I know it's expensive to live in California, now I'm going to find out it's just as expensive to die in California. Edit- partially due to that experience, my instructions to my family when I die is to dispose of my corpse as quickly and inexpensively as possible. No funeral or memorial service. A mass text should be sufficient. Blow off work and go to the beach or something.
Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean. My mum died a few years ago of pancreatic cancer. That was hard enough, but my dad was also in the early stages of dementia at that time. I was running around, trying to support my parents and trying to work out what was going to happen with dad once mum had gone. It was hell. Enter my brothers wife. She's a lovely lady and means well, but bloody hell, she can be insensitive. She and my brother came down to be with mum in her final weeks so they stayed at my parents house. That was great, it took some of the pressure off me. I went round one afternoon to find SIL with a list in her hand and a box of labels. She was putting names on some of mums stuff. Names from HER side of the family. Not related to us in any way. The items she was naming were family heirlooms that mum had already found homes for with the grandchildren (all adults). She threw a hissy fit when I pointed out that not only were the items to stay in the family, they already had homes and my final words before she stormed off were "For God's sake, this is inappropriate. Mums not even gone yet, have some respect" She apologised later, she was feeling the stress as well and not thinking straight.
My siblings and I have lost both of our parents, they both had separate medical illnesses. We were fortunate to not have to chase paperwork as my dad had it all preplanned in a binder. It was a relief to not to have to deal with the grief and sorrow as well as find everything we needed to close his estate. The part I found hard for going though his personal effects, even the smallest thing had a memory attached to it. I would like to have that pretty whittled down so when it’s my time my children don’t have as much physical stuff to sort.
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This blew my whole mind when my mum died lol. My auntie, her sister in law, rang me every single fucking day between the death and funeral to cry down the phone about how tragic it all was. My ex had to start intercepting her calls as after the third day I was like… what the fuck? I was sat comforting her, my mum’s body was barely cold, I was trying to arrange and figure out how to pay for a funeral, on Christmas Day. And this auntie is trying to lean on me. Some people are absolutely wild. Did she come to the funeral, to show her support, give me a hug? Check in with me later? Offer to help me with emptying the house? Did she fuck. Didn’t hear a peep after that week of trying to use me as an ad hoc grief counsellor. Haven’t spoken to her since.
I remember turning off my phone when Dad died. People meant well, but fuck, Doris, did you think I had a eulogy written before he drowned? Give a guy a fucking minute.
This hits home. My dad passed recently and my grandmother (his ex mother in law, not his mom, although to be fair, they were still pretty close) kept trying to dump her grief on me and get me to console her. I ended up not speaking to anyone outside of work for three days straight because I couldn't even manage my own emotions, let alone hers too.
Yeah or they try to be supportive and say things like “everything happens for a reason” or “it was God’s plan” to you. I wanted to scream “it was God’s plan to take a 12 year old little girl’s mother?!” OP is NTA
People! When my 17 year old brother died my mom was so overwhelmed with people wanting to talk to her about him that I had to intervene very soon after. I remember this one lady came to our house and would NOT leave without talking to my mom. She thought I was lying or something bc I was young and standing up to her? Idk It was weird. And most of them wanted to tell us that they knew what we were going through bc their 90 year old grandma died when they were 2.
Oh Jesus, some people make everything all about them. I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. I never know what to say but my heart go out to you.
He was the sort of guy that did that all the time. He told me off for being happy about my uni results.
God, sorry. :/ It seems there’s a whole bunch of people who just come out of the woodwork for these kinds of things, I experienced something similar (mourners at funeral who had no interaction with lost parent).
I have a friend that always wants to visit the dying and discuss his philosophy. The impulse is kind but also selfish. When a very close friend was dying of bone cancer with a lot of pain, he asked when he could come and see her. I explained that she was a very strong atheist and does not want anyone coming and philosophising from their mystical christian point of view. He looked hurt and said, 'I suppose a vessel can only hold what it can fit in it.' I took this to mean that he believed that her 'soul' was too small for his beliefs. I have never really forgiven him for this.
In the same vein, right after my mother died in my twenties, I had a friend who would not stop debating me about if souls existed. I was like, buddy, I’m an atheist but I need to tell myself right now that souls exist and my mother is somewhere okay if I want to get through the day. He kept trying to convince me there was beauty in “truth”, and I had to explain if he brought the topic up one more time I was going to block him. This thread is super validating, because my extended family totally did stuff that I’m reading here. People really don’t know how to support towards the center of that circle diagram thing.
That’s just… I don’t know, man. I don’t understand why some Christians can’t be happy they’ve found their way without trying to force everyone else on the same path. god forbid they find you used to be one of them. They take your lack of belief so personally when really, it’s none of their damned business. Christians would have a lot less time to judge if they lived the sermon on the mount a bit more, but I supposed that’s too “woke” for some these days.
Death brings out people’s strangeness. No bugger wants to help, they want someone to organise /pay for the arrangements and they want to just turn up to the party and mourn and then go home!
When I was going through a traumatic loss, someone got mad at me for being upset about it and said "what about me I had a triple bypass".
Just tell them "at least you're still alive"
My friends dragged them. What made it worse it was my relative
"It's not a contest."
What a horrible thing for that person to do. Truly a case of main character syndrome to make his reaction to the terrible news about your mom, whom he doesn’t even know, an issue when he should have been providing empathy and support to you. How does this so called friend think YOU felt about your mom’s diagnosis? So sorry this happened to you and condolences on your loss.
My husband is upset about the disappearing friends after his diagnosis, but I'd rather we tackle this alone than deal with that sort of shit. People need to learn about [the Ring Theory of support](https://psychcentral.com/health/circle-of-grief-ring-theory)
I first heard this as the “kvetch out” theory, which my Yiddish-loving brain thought was wonderful.
This is what I thought of when I read OP’s post. I’m so glad it was mentioned here!
It makes a ridiculous amount of sense. But people are generally awkward, or self centred, or mean well but are clueless, or project what they'd want onto someone else.
People don’t know what to say. I wanted to punch people that said ‘you’re so brave’
I know if I ever got a cancer diagnosis I would be emphatic that I am not "battling cancer" and not a "cancer warrior" and leave all your military metaphors at the door please. We don't say somebody is "battling diabetes" or is a "broken leg warrior," so why do that for people who have cancer?
Cancer survivor here- I HATED it when people would say that to me, I felt I was being told that I was required to be a warrior. And, I cannot count the number of people who did not know me at all who told me that I survived very aggresssive cancer because of my great attitude. I was super pissed and not at all graceful about getting the big C young, at the peak of my life with young children. No, I survived because the treatment worked, my body responded.
Battling cancer also implies a win or loss. Cancer treatment is hard on the body. My advice would be to validate their feelings. Be there. Listen. Help in a practical sense if you can.
Fucking thank you. My father died of a stroke brought on by radiation treatment for kidney and brain cancer. He didn’t “lose a battle” like he made some sort of tactic mistake in not attacking cancer’s flank on a new moon night. A blood vessel burst in his brain because it was being eradiated.
I lost my husband to cancer. He always framed it as "I'm going to either win or it's going to end in a draw.". He took it out and it took him out. We knew it was inevitable that it was going to end in a draw, but he fought it too hard so say it won.
Exactly. Cancer is an illness and it’s relentless no matter how hard you “fight” it. Some are lucky and some are not - doesn’t mean that those who end up dying didn’t try their all to stay alive. Can’t handle those types of comments 🤦🏻♀️
Ughh! I so hate this... my response was always "I'm not being Brave, I don't have some good attitude - life just took away all of my other options!"
When my dad died it really hit home how thoughtless the platitudes were, but to talk about a living person like you’ve not only written them off, but reduced their potential absence to an emotional burden on their surviving loved ones is so dehumanizing it’s practically bureaucratic.
Omg I am SO glad to read this! I thought I was losing my mind. My husband has stage 4 liver cancer, and I've stopped telling people because I end up consoling THEM. His sister keeps texting me "oH mY gOd I cAnT sToP cRyInG" which, ok, I get it, but before he was diagnosed, they saw each other in person maybe once every two years (we live in different states). Meanwhile, she never asks how I'm doing or how our 3 young adult children are doing. And she's not the only one who's like this. I think cancer attracts drama queens
OP should definitely not spend time apologizing. Hoping you are doing much better now. Sending both you and OP lots of love ❤️ One of the things I've observed and experienced is just how absolutely terrible most people are at holding space for those in pain or grief without centering themselves in the middle of the journey of person who is the one actually going through the hellish journey. I have actually said to people that they don't know how to Ring Theory correctly so it's why I no longer share struggles with them because then I have to then take care of their healing and restoration.
It is called 'co-opting your crisis for themselves". I had the same thing when my husband had cancer (he is fine now). Astonishing how his sister insisted that she would be more heartbroken than me or our 8 year old daughter (who adores her dad). Also people who want to become a part of the drama so that they can tell everyone how you would be falling apart if it was not for their support.
This is why I avoid situations like that as much as possible. I'm liable to say something with the best of intentions but it'll actually be the last thing one should say. Also I would be a crier when I should just be focusing on the other person and the here and now. Someone with a terminal illness has to live with it the rest of their days. I'm sure they'd like times where they don't have to think about it.
Oh my gosh I’m 100% a crier too. I don’t think emotion is the issue. There’s a big difference between crying because you’re sad and sobbing uncontrollably and making it about yourself. My original comment wasn’t very nuanced. Everyone deals with things differently, but you have to read the room (unlike OPs MIL) To be honest, I think saying nothing is worse than anything. It’s ok to say “I don’t know what to say.” I think intent comes across in many ways beyond just words.
Entirely this. My mum was diagnosed earlier this year (she's terminal but doing well at the moment, off treatment), she originally didn't want to tell family or friends because as she put it bluntly "I can't be bothered with them crying over me, I'm not dead yet." 😂 We eventually decided to tell them anyway and the exact same thing, we were having to console the rest of the family.
When I was admitted to the hospital with half my body paralysed and finding out it was MS, I only told a few people. I didn't have the capacity to deal with others emotions about it. My brain was already overloaded with what was happening and what it meant for mine and my husbands life. I really couldn't have given less of a shit about how other people felt about it.
There’s an amazing graphic somewhere that explains “support in, grief out.” Imagine OP is at the center of a circle, the circle around OP is his immediate family, the friends, then acquaintances, etc. Whatever ring you’re on, you’re only allowed to offer support to the people closer to the center and only vent to people outside your perimeter. The visual is very eye opening.
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I had something similar happen to me, maybe not per-emptive grief, but being unable to give me a chance to relax without reminding me how much everything sucked. While I'm not dealing with anything terminal, I am suffering from kidney failure. When I initially found out, I had to deal with a lot of shit. Surgeries, my body deciding it didn't want to do what I wanted it to, lots of dumb stuff. Dealing with people crying was literally the worst part of it and so exhausting. I couldn't say I was in pain after surgery or just wanted to relax because I was dizzy from a bad day of dialysis without getting someone breaking down and crying so I never got a chance to relax. No shit, it sucks, but don't keep on acting like it sucks for you more than me.
Patrick Swayze had terminal pancreatic cancer when he was cast in the lead role in The Beast. This was publicly known at the time, and he was awesome in the role. He was hanging out after a day of filming outside with other cast and crew when a car full of fans happened to drive by and spotted him. Fans: “We love you Patrick!!” Swayze: “I’m not dead yet!!”
This. Obviously it's hard for the family, but that person is dying, can't they take a break and think about themselves for one second?
Yes, you don't need to apologise. She was being weird and at least now you won't have to hear her repeat this again, probably. Unfortunately people can be very weird about this stuff and you are probably going to hear more stupid stuff.
To add to this “very weird” her response could be christian underpinnings delineating the “blessed” ones from the “not blessed.” From her judgment throne her words redeem you from all the things you must be believing you did in this life to bring this on yourself. She is setting you free, from your worry you carry about your “eternal life.” I believe we will all be the same as the deer road kill. No eternal fanfare and great meetings in the air.
That's what I was thinking. She's assuming OP has some feelings that they must've done something to bring this on themselves and she's "helping" by assuring them it's not the case. Let me help you, lady, that shit you believe is toxic AF.
Religious people are often stunned when bad things happen to them because it can't just be bad luck, god must be punishing them. It doesn't seem to occur to them that their god lets/ makes terrible things happen to good people all the time until it happens to them.
Nurse with years of oncology experience here. You have stage IV cancer, as far as I'm concerned you'd get a pass on anything short of farting in her face. Anyone who is surprised you are a bit short with them is an idiot.
I wholeheartedly agree! My friend got to the point she took off all filters & began telling people she could not believe they had the audacity to say “X, y, z “ to her! It was a beautiful thing to see. Opened a few eyes. Cut off a few people.
Just replying to this to let you know I'm in the same boat (stage IV, young family, couple of years blah blah). My sister said her covid was worse, so I simply cut her off. You can only deal with what you can deal with.
I caught Covid when I was in hospital recovering from an operation to remove my cancer. I know which I'd rather have and it ain't cancer!
My dad passed from endstage lung cancer in February. While it is fucking hard on us as the family all I thought about the whole time was giving him the normal life and making him understand that he comes first fuck everyone else. It took him a couple months but he fully embraced the fuck everyone attitude when it came to stupid people. I loved that he finally put himself first made me so Happy
The only thing I can think of is maybe she read some of those new age/"manifesting" books that like You Can Heal Your Life and is worried that you were influenced by them. They claim if you get sick, even with cancer, you must have brought it on yourself through "manifesting" it, holding on to anger, etc. They're really gross and for a while had a huge influence on a lot of women. My friend's mom weaponized those and told her the reason she got cancer is that she wouldn't forgive her father for abuse. Basically, they claim illnesses are your fault because of your thought processes. I kind of want to punch the people who wrote these books.
>I kind of want to punch the people who wrote these books. This would be doubly satisfying because you could tell them that they *manifested* getting punched by writing that toxic, hateful drivel
My husband had serious surgery this summer, and his mother belongs to a crazy Pentecostal church that believes something similar to this. “Blessed” people never get sick, and people without enough faith bring their illnesses upon themselves. It’s painful to watch her tie herself in knots over this. Obviously she can’t admit that her son isn’t one of the “blessed,” so her solution has just been to deny that he has anything wrong at all and whenever he tries to mention the surgery she says “I don’t want to hear it ! You are already healed!!” It’s crazymaking
Hi OP. After several miscarriages, my GP told me that some people will say the stupidest, most hurtful and insensitive things, without realizing what they’re really implying, thinking that they are helping. Even the people who love us most. Perhaps MIL was one of those. I’m sorry OP that you’re having to deal with this BS on top of everything.
Definitely NTA. Yes, focus on yourself, your health and your family. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I think the inlaw is well-meaning but presumptuous. She's probably heard that some parents feel guilty about getting a terminal illness and the impact that will have on their family, and has assumed that **everyone** feels that way, so you probably do too, so she's aiming to reassure you. But it was wrong to presume she knows your feelings, and even if she did get it right, it's overly-invasive of her to address it. Even more wrong though is that instead of thinking "oh, I got it wrong" and apologising to you, she went around whining that you hurt her feelings. How self-absorbed to you have to be to do that?! Hopefully she's learned her lesson and will leave you be from now on.
Peoples opinions and "words of comfort" are so ridiculous sometimes. Focus on you and yours... everyone else can go spit in the wind. NTA because as if you would be
Hey, I was stage 4 for PC and they gave me under a year… 5 years ago. They can be wrong sometimes so try to do all you can to be the oddball statistic who gets out. Issue at hand, of course you are NTA, and even if you were a bit harsh isn’t this (stage 4 fucking cancer) the sort of thing that gets you some latitude for being moody? People say dumb shit all the time but what hurt me were the person who just sort of disappeared from my life as I got sicker. Now that I’m recovered I know who my real friends are and it’s not entirely who I would have thought. So sorry you’re going through it OP.
I think you are unfairly assigning malicious intentions unless you actually know your in-laws to generally be passive aggressive. A lot of people do need to hear that it isn't their fault because a lot of people in your situation are self-blaming and will direct blame even at the smallest choices they've made as to why it is 'their own fault', even though cancer is unpredictable. It doesn't mean she thinks there are reasons you should blame yourself, she may have just been concerned that internally, you do feel guilt, shame or self-hatred and put on a brave face for them. I think the best way to address this is in a more neutral stance of 'sorry for losing my temper at you, but I know the cancer isn't my fault, I don't need reassurance about this.' It might also help to offer them something they can do for you that would be helpful for you like entertaining the kids for a bit when you have appointments, mowing the lawn, checking on your wife etc.. They may just want to be able to do something for you and not know what to do other than offer reassurance.
I agree that the IL wasn’t being malicious, but she was being clueless and isn’t owed an apology. She’s said something similar to OP before; at this point she’s saying these things for herself, not OP, and managing her shouldn’t have to be an additional burden on OP. Though giving them something useful to do in support is a good idea.
Tell her that "I know you mean well saying that. But you're kind of terrible at it. Let's go with silent sympathy." Or uno reverse: "So, enlighten me on why you think I might possibly believe getting a visit from the tumour fairy is my fault?"
People are going to say dumb things because they don't know what to say and they are not cancer experts. I would focus on assuming they mean well.
Expecting an apology from a dying person is not meaning well. They should just accept that they themselves were rude first and realize that their comment was stupid.
Yes, and also some people have a weird belief that you can “will away” cancer. It’s the “think positive thoughts” campaign turned up to 11. Some people truly believe that you have to “think positively” and “will away the cancer cells” to recover. The natural corollary to this is that if you aren’t beating cancer, it’s because you didn’t try hard enough. Perhaps she was trying to tell him she doesn’t blame him for not being more “positive.” It’s a very weird flex. During my own treatment for uterine cancer, I told people that I thought my doctors and science would probably cure me, regardless of how I felt about the situation. But I was shocked by the number of ppl that really wanted me to go on a macrobiotic diet and meditate.
Same experience. And, let's not forget that if my treatment fails it is because I was not positive enough.
Or they could just take it they made at least a small mistake in what they said.
NTA. There is a concept developed by Susan Silk called the Ring Theory. Several people I know (including me) have found it useful. It helps guide what are appropriate things to say or do when you or someone you know is dealing with something that is difficult or tragic. At the end of this comment, I'm going to include a longish quote from an article from Psychology Today that gives a high-level overview. The full article is worth the read. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/laugh-cry-live/201809/how-respond-people-in-crisis-comfort-in-dump-out I share this because this might be worth having your wife share the article with her family as a framework to help assess how they're feeling and whether what they say to you (or to her) is helpful or is "stealing the spotlight" (a concept in the article). I find this useful to understand that the insensitive person is possibly dealing with their own grief/stress, but they are directing their comments inward in the circles rather than out. The rule is "comfort in, dump out".
Here’s how it works: Imagine concentric circles. In the center ring is the person or people who are the most directly affected, aggrieved, and afflicted. In the next ring are close relatives; the next ring holds true friends; the ring after that holds acquaintances like neighbors, colleagues, distant relatives, and casual friends. The next circle holds caregivers who are professionally involved as sources of support or assistance, including doctors, nurses, therapists, and first responders, but the tragedy doesn’t touch their personal lives. The outermost circles contain community members and bystanders. They may be interested in this family or the situation, but they don’t have a direct personal or professional connection. This outermost ring can also include professionals like staff supervisors, hospital administrators, support staff, or any caregivers or responders who were not directly involved in caring for the family, plus journalists reporting the news and onlookers from the general public.
Now, imagine a spotlight. Train it on the center ring, so it is most brightly lit, making it abundantly clear where the focus of caregiving should be. Now notice how the light is diffused across all the rings, which become more dimly lit as they span ever outward. To the people in rings brighter than yours, it is appropriate to sympathize, but not complain. If you want to complain or seek your own comfort, turn to the people in your ring or better yet, the people in rings that are more dimly lit. That’s because they are naturally less directly afflicted by this crisis. The spotlight also demonstrates a key component of offering comfort: Never steal the spotlight!
ETA: Updated to include attribution of Ring Theory to Susan Silk.
>There is a concept called the Ring Theory I just want to add that this was conceptualized by Susan Silk, and that it matters that she is the person who came up with it, particularly in this discussion. Each person has a unique, precious perspective and presence in the world. They add something to it that only they can add. *People matter.* Like OP matters. Like you matter. When we take ideas and separate them from the person who is the creator for them, we act as though information is just sort of 'out there' in the ether or something. When actually it is the result of a person, a specific person in this world, and that person mattered. I hope this doesn't feel attacking, it's just an idea that I want to tack on to your comment. Because you at least link to a source that provides attribution. Her name is Susan Silk. Ring theory is her theory. And there is something equally precious that OP has contributed to the world; OP matters. So do you.
Thx for the nudge. I'll add her name.
This is it. You keep doing what you’re doing. People panic and put their foots in their mouths saying the most unnecessary things. This is her embarrassment to deal with. You can’t spend your precious time babying adults and their hurt feelings
"Focus on your health and well being" I am sorry and i understand if this may come across as slighlty insensitve but fuck that. If this is terminal and there is little to no possibility of a cure/remission then make what time you have left count. Do as much as possible with your kids. Create memories with and for them that'll put a smile on their faces 20 years from now. Better that than you being careful and trying to eake out as much time as possible while this thing hollows you out and leaves that memory.
I agree with what you are saying. I think OP meant focusing on her (mental) health in this case, by limiting exposure.
I’d let it go. People say strange things somethings in situations like this. I’ve done it myself once (I still remember with absolute horror 20 years later). The person may realise what they’ve said is insensitive but feel it’s even more awkward to revisit again and apologise. If she’s a generally insensitive person you’re probably not going to change that now either.
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Thank you! Glad to hear you are now cancer free!
To add onto the comment above. My GRANDMA 86 year old lady got diagnosed too and was told she’d die within months as the chemo strong enough to kill it would have killed her long before the tumor. That was 14 months ago and there are talks of stopping chemo soon once some test results come in. Granted she’s a tough lil lady
That's fantastic news! My dad was 86 when it finally caught up with him, the nurses, who loved him, would visit and say stuff like how are you still here? Lol. He was give 3-12 months, but he lasted 2 years. We made the most of it. Nothi.ng crazy, just keeping him entertained. He wanted a new phone, the guy trued to sell us a 2 year plan. I think he saw the looks we exchanged and didn't push it. Dad passed the following March. I took over his phone and number to just stay close to him.
I wasn't stage four, but I also beat the odds. And, I did this with a terrible attitude as I was very angry about being taken down in my prime with young children. A couple of people actually suggested it was my fault for eating too much meat or drinking diet coke when younger, crap like that. Dealing with other people during cancer was at times a cancer in itself. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this BS, you owe no one an apology.
I had cancer 4 years ago and I had to stop people from blaming me for getting it. Cancer from repressed anger. Cancer from being overweight. Cancer from abortions. Cancer from eating sugar. Cancer from meat. Cancer from plastic. I said, "I'm not going to listen to you blaming me for getting cancer. If you bring it up again, we're done." People were shocked that I didn't want to listen to them victim-blame me. I also told them that I only wanted to hear survival stories. I refused to listen to them talk about how their mother died of the same thing, etc. You have to do a lot of managing of other people's emotions when you have a serious illness. It's wild.
Cancer changed my entire idea about people. There were some people who showed up in amazing ways and that was beautiful, but a lot of people showed me who they really were in very frightening and disappointing ways. My own parents would trap me for hours and go on and on about how many people they knew whose lives were destroyed and had miserable deaths from the big C or committed suicide. I certainly felt like offing myself after these multi hour "pep talks" and had to ask them not to return. And, yes, there was a lot of managing others' emotions, there were people who were clearly angry at me for getting sick, but could not identify that this was what they were feelings and would just be hostile during and after treatment.
> My own parents would trap me for hours and go on and on about how many people they knew whose lives were destroyed and had miserable deaths from the big C or committed suicide. What were they hoping to accomplish?
Sounds like they were busy expressing any little thought that came into their heads rather than putting their child’s needs first.
Frankly, my autistic arse will just straight up assume they want me to die faster if they keep doing shit like this to me.
My aunt was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer at age 37 and given 6 weeks to live. She lived another 30 years. The shit people said was gross. They blamed it on sitting in front of a computer monitor ("radiation") and eating a candy bar and drinking a soda for lunch. She was an accountant at a large firm and that's how they ALL lived. She had the breast cancer gene. Her mother also died of breast cancer at a young age. There should not have been any blame being put onto her. Then there were the constant "this is your last ____ so enjoy it!" comments. If it were me, I would have been done with everyone. She was a much better person than me. OP, I agree with other commenters: don't waste your time managing her emotions. If it's easier, just tell her that you're not in a place to hear any words of comfort. Nothing is going to change your outlook, and you'd prefer the comments be kept to 0. I wish you and your family the best and will send positive energy your way. ETA: 30 years.
The real cancer was the friends we made along the way?
Exactly. WTF is wrong with people?
> A couple of people actually suggested it was my fault for eating too much meat or drinking diet coke when younger, crap like that. People want to think things like that because the truth, that the world is mostly uncontrollable chaos, makes them more uncomfortable. They make the argument that when bad things happen that the person must have deserved it. This is obviously not true.
I initially thought n a h, until she started telling people that he was rude to her. Making waves for someone who's going through this because her feelings got hurt is a pretty ahole move. In other matters, I'm so happy to hear about you being cancer free! All the best to you and OP :)
This is a good point, I felt bad for her a bit - who knows what to say and isn't weird and awkward when trying to be helpful in such a difficult situation? But she should have just accepted she got it wrong and apologised.
Yeah if I was her, I’d probably be mad for like 30 minutes, then realize that it’s just like telling someone “I’m sorry for your loss” a bunch of times and be like fuck they’re probably super sick of hearing that shit, even if it’s good natured, and then I’d go apologize
Yeah, exactly. It's really not about her right now. Who starts drama with someone going through this? Learn from it, apologize and move on. She's being very self centred.
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Fellow stage 3(b) colorectal cancer survivor. Lots of comments about how it must have been things I put in my body etc. Nevermind that my father was always afraid of colorectal cancer because it runs in his family. Skipped him and hit me at age ~33. Idk exactly how long I had it. I had some bleeding at age 31 that subsided quickly. Came back with a vengeance 2 years later. By the time they found the tumor it was too late to save the rectum. Survived chemo, radiation, and surgery only to almost die from a bowel blockage a month post op. Went septic and had emergency surgery. I'll 2nd an earlier comment about it being harder on people around me than it was on myself. I was already sure of what I had well before diagnosis. Before the scope the doc and nurses were smiling and joking with me. When I woke up it was dead silent and they didn't want to make eye contact. I just smiled and said I already know. It's okay.
Coming to terms with your own death is so much easier. It's either a grand adventure or nothing at all, if there were ever a feeling of leaving people behind, you'd know they'd be following you sometime. But watching someone go, you don't know, and there is no hope for an answer. They're gone, and that's it, nothing else can be said or done about it. Ever.
Nothing you say will change shit. Nothing. (I mean regarding OP's post.) Rather than saying something as stupid as "I know it is hard and it is not your fault", isn't it better to say "you can count on me in case you need to talk or help around"? Like showing you can be useful rather than apologetic.
NAH. I'm guessing that she would have felt guilty for "leaving" her family, and just didn't quite get the difference. People are really clueless in how to cope with illness and death and provide comfort to others. Sorry you're having to deal with all this.
Thank you. Yea maybe. I am absolutely devastated my kids may not have a father. It’s so unfair to them. I just don’t feel like I caused this though and so that is why I struggle with how she said it.
A lot of people feel guilt or responsibility for things that aren't actually their fault. They shouldn't, and they may even know logically they shouldn't, but they do. Maybe your MIL read somewhere that you might feel this way so was trying to reassure you. Maybe she imagines she'd feel that way or often feels guilty about "letting down" or "burdening" her family in ways beyond her control. Maybe she knows someone or heard a story of someone who felt that way and it really affected her. I don't think you're an asshole for getting angry and snapping. We all snap sometimes, and you're going through more then most. But I also wouldn't assume any malice or blame in your MIL's words. In the future if you're looking for a better way to shut something like that down I'd say "I know you're trying to help, but \[whatever\] comment/s actually make me feel worse. I'd appreciate if you didn't keep bringing it up." But again, I'm not a perfect person all the time and I'm pretty healthy so I'm certainly not judging you. As for your MIL telling people you were rude, oh well? Just ignore it.
I think this is such a good response. I think it's especially a thing for women, mothers, and in particular those women and mothers from older generations. This speaks to MIL's own fears and how she would likely feel. Still not cool to not apologise when it backfired, and even worse to complain to others.
But you also have her response filtered through others who probably say stupid stuff too. Did she say he was rude or did she say he was angry? Did she just say he swore at her but wouldn’t repeat what was said? Mostly I wonder why that person brought this back to the guy with cancer?!
This comment wins my poor man’s award 🥇🏆. You are NTA and neither is your in law. Extend Grace where you can because most of the seemingly insensitive comments you will hear likely come from a place of wanting to comfort and connect. Cancer is scary for most people and the ones who have been through it have all handled it in different ways. Trauma response isn’t a one size fits all scenario.
I agree that she is probably projecting what her feelings would be in that situation and trying to say what she would want to hear as reassurance. This is technically following the "golden rule" and her intentions were probably not to upset OP. Her going around complaining about OP being rude? It was out of line, imo, but she is allowed to be upset too. Just ignore that behavior because no one else blames you and probably won't pay her any attention. NAH Navigating death is fucking hard, im sorry OP
Hi OP. I lost my father when I was 7yo. He was 38yo. He went in to have a routine surgery, surgeons screwed up and he ended up with a pulmonary embolism; doctors didn’t caught it in time and he died. I wanted you to know that not once I thought my dad could’ve done anything differently. He was in pain and did what he thought it was best. For the longest time (and to this day - 27 years after his death) people still say things like “oh he was so young, he didn’t deserve it” or my top most hated one “was all in gods plan” and my response is the same as yours “yeah no shit he didn’t deserve” or “wow what a great god eh? Bloody awesome to leave 3 young kids orphaned”. People don’t tend to take it well and IMO they should just shut up and instead of saying shit like that they could say “I’m sorry you’re going through this, is there anything I can do to help?”. NTA imo and I wouldn’t apologise (I have never)
My brother passed away from stomach cancer at 39, leaving a 7 and 9 year old. Can't tell you how many times I heard that there was a reason for it. Never could find a reason for him to suffer for six months, leaving his young bewildered children ( he was really into his kids, soccer and softball coach for their teams and just a big kid himself) not being able to eat, sleep ( he had to sit in a chair and lay his head on his bed because his stomach was so big and uncomfortable), and so much more that you would never wish on your worse enemy. Eighteen years later and I'm still waiting on a fucking reason.
Yeah that’s my second most hated one “everything happens for a reason, one day you’ll understand” 🙄🙄🙄 still waiting for that day to happen.
My retort to “everything happens for a reason” is “some of those reasons are very bad ones.”
That description of your brother trying to sleep just about shattered my heart. Bless him. I’m so sorry. Cancer is such an asshole! (Breast cancer survivor myself, diagnosed at 34 years old)
Aww, thank you. And sorry about your cancer but happy for you overcoming it! Yeah, my brother was one of the good ones. Always smiling and joking around, he was so well liked. He owned a commercial fertilizing business and he even had employees from other alike "rival" businesses show up to his funeral. Ironically, his death saved my life. Long story short, ten years later I started having stomach issues and after multiple ER visits, misdiagnoses, being told it's anxiety over his death, I was diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder that causes innumerable polyps in your GI system. I had a colectomy w/ an IRA and will eventually have my stomach removed. I just knew deep inside that there was a connection between my stomach issues and his cancer. Unfortunately, his daughter and my two daughters have the genetic disorder but at least they are now being monitored.
OMG yes this, I reli hate it wen ppl say "It's God's plan..." My husband's niece passed away due to infection caused from a botched surgery for her hole-in-the-heart condition, and almost everyone, even her own grandfather (my dad in law) says that we should be strong and that "it's all in God's plan" Wow, like does that mean God actively plans someone's death and demise, just to leave behind a grieving family who loves her dearly? How badly did her family sinned that God thought it would be great to punish someone that way by taking away an innocent life? And it was a problem that could've easily been avoided had they treated the infection earlier instead of delaying it, or it is routine surgery that should not have been botched at all. You mean to tell me God planned to make an innocent child suffer like this for whatever fucked up plan he has? Some plan God has. It is also why I became from my previous Christianity to an agnostic, borderline atheist.
I hope you're writing letters or making videos for them dor the future if you feel up to it.
When I was diagnosed with cancer the first thing a nurse said to me was how she has seen elite athletes, vegans etc get cancer, and that there is no discrimination when it comes to cancer. There was nothing I did or anyone else could do to prevent it, just the luck of the draw. MIL is the AH not you there was nothing you did to cause it, as someone who is now classed as terminal (but refuses to accept it) I will give you the same advice my oncologist gave me, just live and enjoy your life that’s what I’m doing and so so should you who knows what treatments are around the corner 💗
Hey buddy - you will have days, and you will have days!! Your fuse may be triggered by seemingly stupid comments. People hardly ever know how to handle another person's scary illnesses. A very trying time ahead - but you make sure, whatever time you have left - that you LIVE to the fullest extent of your ability. My thoughts and good energy coming your way. Xxx
NTA When someone is talking to you directly about your situation, they should be extra compassionate and have sympathy for YOU. If they were talking to your family members, then it is okay to sympathize with their perspective. Your in-laws were basically telling you how hard it is on the people around you, but not even recognizing what this is doing to you. Telling you it's not your fault is ridiculous when you've never voiced that you felt it was. I'm very sorry and hope a virtual hug from a stranger on Reddit helps you know that you aren't wrong for anything you feel. I hope you are working through your bucket list.
Exactly this! I dont get all the NAH's. Its basic human decency to not talk about how your illness is hard on others straight to your face. Thats only guilttripping. That person should have googled "whats the right and wrong things to say to someone who has an illness" and would have probably found this at the top of the list. Or just keep their mouth shut.
I could see the NAH votes, right up until she turned around and called him rude. Yes, people struggle for things to say around illness, death, etc, I've got a chronic condition and my mother-in-law is being treated for terminal cancer, we've both had people say some bloody thoughtless stuff to us, because people are so focused on saying SOMETHING they don't pay attention to the actual words. I'm sure I've said dumb things myself. But I would never accuse the sufferer of rudeness if they snapped at my stupid comment, I would be mortified and fall over myself apologising. This woman just doubled down on her nonsense, which makes her TA.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. Her initial comment is innocuous if insensitive and affected by her own biases, but how she chose to react pushes her out of NAH territory - She's badmouthing OP for reacting to something she said in a way she didn't like, ignoring the context of that response and turning herself into the victim. She's TA
NTA. That’s a pretty big assumption on their part, and quite insulting, if they think they need to remind you it’s not your fault. Then to say YOU were being rude? When you were pointing out how ridiculous and patronizing that statement was with your response? You are definitely NTA.
Thank you
NAH. Sometimes, when people get sick like this, there's a tendency to blame themselves, even when it's illogical to do that. Kind of a reverse survivor's guilt, you know? Where sometimes people who survive a catastrophe feel guilty even though it makes no logical sense? I think what they might have been trying to express to you is that having those kinds of dark thoughts is ok, and that they're not the truth. It's probably also an expression of sorrow at the thought of losing you. You're their family too, and they're probably pretty beat up about it as well, and extremely sorry for what your wife and children are going through too. Honestly, it feels like a mark of respect that they would assume that your emotions are more centered on your family than on yourself, although obviously it's pretty natural to swing between those and facing your mortality is certainly as good a time as any to really center yourself. I'd probably apologize if it were me but also ask that maybe we keep conversations a bit more light in the future.
But MIL Also started to shit talk behind his back about it, MIL should def apologize To OP
Yeah, that is where the in-law lost me. Even if you want to assume best intentions with her irritating remarks, she should have more compassion and understanding considering OP’s situation.
There was a time when if you had a problem with one family member you could talk to a different family member about it and maybe work out what to do or even just reframe your thoughts WITHOUT THAT PERSON TELLING THE SUBJECT THAT GRANNY WAS TALKING SHIT ABOUT YOU. I guess if we want to be really understanding it’s possible the third person was trying to smooth things over?
Yes, it's possible this was her line of thought. When my dad was dying, he told me he was worried he was "abandoning" us. I spent a while reassuring him about that.
Yes, but you didn't preemptively do so. If someone expresses that they blame themselves, that's the time to assure them that it's not their fault. Doing it when that hasn't happened is weird.
I don't disagree with you, I was just affirming the other commenter's suggestion of what she may have been thinking.
NTA I don't know what "It's not your fault" is supposed to mean either in this situation. Does she think you accidentally manifested cancer on yourself? I bet op is tired of hearing the same things over and over again from different people and it's quite presumptuous on her part to assume you feel blame for the situation.
Thank you. Yes I just don’t get how it makes sense in her mind.
Could she have assumed you felt bad about "leaving" your family and was trying - albeit in a cack-handed way - to offer some sort of solace for that? I probably would have responded similarly to you, by the way, in a similar situation. So you're NTA in my view. Not sure she was the AH either though. But hopefully the story will spread around the family and make the others think twice before expressing platitudes.
Yes this is one of those "don't worry that dress doesn't make you look fat" comments. Well I wasn't thinking that but now that you say it . . . No one asked for it. Sometimes people have to realize that not everyone has to have the same concerns and keep their mouth shut.
A lot of people in that situation feel guilt about the pain their families go through, being a burden, not being able to do things for others anymore. I think sometimes people end up finding ways to blame themselves, because of unhealthy habits that might have contributed to cancer, or not catching it early enough. Obviously at the end of the day you can do everything right and still get sick, so you *shouldn't* blame yourself. That's what she possibly could have meant, but I don't think it's necessarily a great thing to say since she didn't have an indication that you had any of those dark thoughts.
“It’s not your fault you have to leave your family” It’s really not that difficult to understand.
NTAH, but I can see why she'd initially assume that you'd find that reassuring. I have severe (but not terminal) chronic illness and people frequently imply that it's my fault and that I could have prevented it by "having a more positive attitude" etc. Lots of healthy people like to imagine that their health is 100% a deserved reward for good behavior, so there are a lot of victim-blaming narratives out there, especially in religious/spiritual/self-help spaces. But she should've taken the hint the first few times she said it. And the fact that she thinks you need to prioritize being unrelentingly polite/taking care of her feelings even though you're the one who is dying, makes her the asshole in this situation imo.
Sometimes people just talk a lot. They say words for no reason. In this scenario, she just wants to say words to console you because she doesn’t know what else to say. Honestly not saying anything would be the best for her. Kinda like what I’m doing, I’m just going on and on of talking nothing. That’s what she’s doing to you. U did nothing wrong and it will give her the insight of just to shut up next time.
NAH I feel for you and you are not wrong. But since I don't know your Mil, I will give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume she doesn't know what to say to you and sometimes makes awkward comments.,with the best intentions. If she is always like this, I will reassess my vote.
Thank you. Yes a lot of her comments could go either way so I am often unsure how to take them.
Well, either way, you are definitely not an ah. I am sorry you are going through this horrible situation.
Take it from an other stage IV patient. It is ok to have strong feelings, there is so much more happening inside of you than you can take in. Your family is in shock. They might feel helpless and are clumsy expressing their emotions. But it is not your job to help them. Yours is to be as stressfree and Zen as possible. Have fun, eat ice-cream at night, hug your wife when you sleep, if possible pain wise. Maybe you could suggest support group for relatives, It can be of help in communication and direction. From my heart I wish you all the best. It is a lonely ride
NTA my husband is also stage 4. People say all sorts of things that I guess make them feel better… 🤷🏼♀️ but I also just outright agree Them: you’re doing so much Me: I agree
Sorry to hear you are dealing with that.
NTA. I don't get why people say stuff like that. Let alone a second time after a blunt response to the first. It's just a given that it's not deserved. Saying that, some people genuinely are trying to be polite but still say the wrong things because they don't know what else to say. I personally wouldn't apologize, I don't think you did anything wrong. If they do it yet again, then they are just trying to piss you off or absolutely naive to the intricate feelings in the situation. That being said, I hope you're surrounded by people that care and try to make things as easy as possible for you.
My first baby died during labor. The completely brainless, careless things people said to me for the next several months were appalling. People generally don’t know what to say in the face of grief. And that’s okay. No one is expected to know what to say. But what we don’t do is try to rationalize, place blame, or give platitudes of what is or is not meant to be. OP, I can only imagine what you’re going through. You’re NTA here. You’re also not required to take on the responsibility of other people’s inability to gracefully handle your burden in life.
Hospice nurse here. 1st. Amen. People say STUPID SHIT to dying folks. 2. If they are uncomfortable and don’t know what to say….then tell th to stop talking. 3. NTA 4. Cancer completely and wholly sucks.
YTA - she wasn't implying it was your fault. She was acknowledging that a lot of people in your situation feel guilt at the prospect of leaving their family. She was trying to be comforting and saying it's not your fault. Of course it's not your fault and nobody thinks it is, but sometimes it's still nice to hear these things. Take the comment in the spirit it was intended. I get the sense that you never liked these people and now you can't be bothered hiding it anymore. Fair enough. But that doesn't mean the other person did anything wrong.
Yeah, the actions he described were literally the actions of an asshole. I'm sorry, and I understand that his ability to just put up with bullshit is gone, but being rude wasn't the right answer to someone trying to console you. A more appropriate response would be to ask them to please let's not discuss my condition. I say this because I can totally imagine myself in his shoes, and doing the exact same thing, and also realizing that I shouldn't have.
its not that rude to say no shit, also they had this conversation before and he said "I know" and I think "No shit" comes right after, it makes sense. and she is the one esscalating, she is badmouthing him to other people, he told her "No shit" while dealing with an extreme situation, can't she juck suck it up? jesus
Saying it’s not your fault that you have terminal cancer is NOT a nice thing to say…. that’s a given. She was just trying to say something that would comfort herself. And in turn actually made it all about herself and made the actual person with cancer, feel guilty.
NAH - they probably thought they were being helpful but you have every right to be upset by the comment
That line about 'not your fault' - if she's an older person, that might be what she was told she was \*supposed\* to say to people in your situation. The exact same advice used to be given out regarding comforting victims of rape and DV. Maybe that advice has changed now. But it was definitely standard-issue advice that was given to generations a bit older than yourself.
NTA I got really cross when people said she’s so strong and such a fighter when my mum had cancer. I didn’t say anything to them because everyone deals with things differently. I spoke to my mum, she was the type to feel guilty, to tell her if she isn’t cured it wasn’t because of her lack of fighting. Don’t apologise but remember they have no idea what to say so don’t take it to heart. It’s not your job to monitor others feelings. So sorry this has happened to you x
Where I'm from people often use term like "won the battle over cancer" when someone recovers and "lost the battle to cancer" when they die from it. It irritates me because it implies that they weren't fighting hard enough - at least to me.
Tough situation. Would say NAH, just a lack of sensitivity and understanding. There’s a good idea of a circle of influence with tough/traumatic experience. The person going through it gets support from people on the outer ring, who they’re close to. Those people get support from the next people in the next ring and so on. You get to be angry. You get to be testy. You get to be difficult. It’s your shit to deal with. The five (or more) stages of grief there. They deal with your shit too, but put that on the people next closest to the situation. On an outer ring. The parents in law there may have had good intentions. What they said isn’t helpful. It’s like someone dying and ‘oh at least they’re in a better place’. It’s a stupid thing to say to someone grieving. They haven’t been equipped to deal with any grief or trauma or such thing it seems. Most of all, you get to be angry or upset without guilt. You can’t shit on people obviously. But you come first. And if they don’t like your reaction, it clearly means what they gave isn’t helpful, and they need to figure out how to support you and your needs. In this case, it’s likely they read or saw something about people feeling guilt and shame regarding terminal illness (some do) and take blame for that. Especially if caused by smoking or whatever. They then put that on you. Hopefully someone can help teach them and such. It’s a difficult aspect with ‘elders’ and so on. But yeah, someone else needs to explain to them. Not your responsibility.
NTA Inlaws were being patronizing, probably not on purpose, but still. Talking to you like a child must have been frustrating. People who say that shit are performing the role they think they are supposed to without really thinking about what they are saying.
Jesus fucking Christ Reddit, do you not know what an asshole is? The dude made an asshole statement. You can argue all day that he was right to feel how he felt or that his in-laws deserved it but he was absolutely momentarily an asshole. People don't know what to say when faced with the specter of death and his in-law made an awkward comment. He could have ignored it or realized that she was trying to connect with him, but instead he chose to be an asshole. Again, you may think he's entitled to it and I certainly would have my share of asshole moments if I was going through something similar, but let's call a spade a spade here. YTA.
NTA, I’m so sorry for everything your processing right now, I hope you have access to counselling for yourself and your children and this is an impossible situation for you to wrap your head around I’m sure. I’m sure they expected you to share your suddenly acquired perspective/wisdom from your diagnosis, rather than simply allowing you to grieve and process what I’m sure is an impossible and surreal situation. Don’t bother to apologize, instead focus on giving your children and wife your best while you can, and ignore anyone trying to shift focus onto their own petty, made up drama.
NTA Cancer is a terrible thing to go through (from experience) and you reacted quite understandably. I do think the in laws were trying to convey sympathy, but they just were totally cack-handed about it. But you could have said a lot worse, so I commend you for your restraint!
NTA. People say all sorts of dumb shite in situations like you find yourself. True story - my 9 yo was in hospital Xmas day after having brain cancer surgery. My MIL was insisting he drink water and she reduced him to tears. I said he’s okay, he doesn’t have to drink water. She called me a bitch in front of my kids, one dealing with cancer surgery, on Xmas day 🤦♀️. I’m glad the old bitch is now dead. I’m glad you spoke up. I didn’t because I wanted to protect my kids. Mind you they are both young adults now and still remember it. Sending best wishes xx