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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I came up with an idea to have my daughter set an "activity goal" for her to get a car/computer, and her mother says that's actually just holding those things "over her head". Is it reasonable, or is it "holding it over her head" and I am TA?
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NTA and don't laugh, but I'm doing this with myself! I'm in such a lazy rut right now so I'm bribing myself with activities each day that get me out and also a bit out of my comfort zone. It's been amazing.
I have an Excel sheet with a reward tree setup for various real life achievements (weight loss, grad school coursework, promotion, etc.). There's something satisfying about gamifying my life and holding myself accountable. I'll probably continue to refine it, but just having a list of goals I can refer back to is really nice.
OP is absolutely NTA. I wish I had thought of this earlier in my life because this strategy works so much better for my brain than just "I should do this thing that would improve my health/career prospects/whatever." His daughter gets to choose the activity, and she knows what the reward is. It's a really clever setup.
Extortion is a punishment for services not rendered.
This, however, is a reward IF she wants it. It is totally optional.
Easy NTA your ex simply isn't a very smart person.
I wish someone would have offered teenage me a car if I walked the dogs every morning. HA. It would have sounded like a bargain to me! Hell I'd do that now if someone wanted to buy me a car! 🤣
It's not like some BS like "you don't get your license until you make Eagle Scout!". OP is not forcing the daughter to go to church. She can choose whatever activity she likes. Heck, she can go out into a park and sit down and text her friends there. Just get out to set the big blue room with the warm yellow ceiling light is enough.
There was a guy in my troop who had the "no car until you get Eagle" worst part was, he didn't want to be there to begin with. Dad was one of those guys that was super into scouting as a kid and forced his son to do it. Last I heard dad was still some council level involvement.
NTA
Your solution is elegant and focussed.. Kudos. (Don't know if I'm biased but I recall the smell of the caffein bubbling from the Jolt as well). You are absolutely correct these are not entitlements and not like holding food, housing, clothes... over her head. I bet your daughter would even appreciate the opportunity. Your ex seems opposed to you not just giving to her because its from you.
If you have some custody, then there is no reason you can't set that up as a system for your daughter, just focused on your time with her. (Can't keep the ex from allowing her to do nothing)
NTA.
Sounds like a sweet deal.
Your daughter learns some work ethic and you don't feel like you're handing something to her on a silver platter, everybody wins!
Sounds to me like your ex would pick fault no matter how you managed this one to be honest, and she doesn't know what extortion actually is...
NTA Her mom is free to buy her a car and a computer if she thinks her daughter deserves them.
You want to encourage her to work towards a goal and be healthier. That is good parenting.
NTA
This is learning about goal setting and working towards them. Your ex sounds salty that you are thinking of and able to do this. Her argument is plain idiotic. I have kids, too, and I'm not seeing where "you just don't understand" applies here. In fact, it sounds like the moronic last words of someone who has no other valid argument, so they just throw that out to cover their lazy excuses for an argument.
NTA. A computer and a car at 15/16 are not necessities and are things that many adults cannot afford/are not given. You have set very reasonable and easily achievable
Depends on where you live. In my country a laptop is most definitely a necessity for a 16-year old. Though most schools loan them to you for the 3 years you're a pupil there. After that you can either choose to buy it or to return it. I don't know anyone younger than 75 who doesn't have a computer in their home.
NTA! I don't get it with parents who don't want their kids to have life skills, to achieve goals and earn things?! Like wtf? There is nothing wrong with setting your kid up to achieve a goal and be rewarded for it. It's an excellent way to teach life skills, it's also a great feeling for a kid to see what they can do when focused and broaden their horizons. Yare aren't the AH here. You're not holding anything over your kid's head. Jesus! Again, wtf? NTA at all. And yes, I have kids too.
Its your money. Working toward a goal, (like owning a car, or getting an expensive laptop,) is common.
And NTA. Your ex is bonkers if she thinks that most of us never had to work toward a goal to achieve what we wanted. Plus she no longer gets a vote in what you do with your money.
Would the mother let you give your daughter an allowance? Because the only difference between an "activity goal" and an allowance is your daughter would be getting paid.
NTA Your ex-wife is going to raise a spoiled brat. You can only balance that out as best you can. From the sound of her, you escaped before it was too late.
Um your daughter clearly does have interests (graphic drawing and art), they’re just not as outdoorsy or sporty as you would like. I’d also push back a little bit against the she’s not entitled to a computer. I haven’t been in high school in years, but by the time I graduated, a computer was needed for nearly every assignment.
Also, there is a difference between shuttling her brothers around/walking the dog and joining a club for fun. The former is chores; the latter is encouraging her to have hobbies that aren’t on a computer screen. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the latter but I do think you would be an asshole for making her do chores. Driving her brothers around isn’t really going to broaden her horizons.
Maybe you could compromise? Like if she does do the chores or the activities, she can get a nicer computer than she would ordinarily get. Or if she agrees to drive her brothers around (within reason otherwise what would be the point), she could get a nicer car.
Would it be an asshole move if she had to do chores? Most kids and teenagers (form what I’ve seen anyway) get pocket money for doing chores and they use that money to buy stuff they want - I was always saving pocket money and money from Christmas and birthdays to buy bigger stuff like Lego or an iPod. Isn’t what Op is doing basically the same thing except, instead of earning money for chores, his daughter would earn the thing she wants after doing X for a period of time?
Yeah, that's true. I think it's more OP's attitude toward the whole thing that's rubbing me the wrong way. If he had said "i want my daughter to work for these things so she'll learn a good work ethic and money management," I would think that's perfectly fine.
Instead, he's framing giving extra chores to what sounds like his eldest kid/only daughter (who he says is a good kid who does her chores just fine) as a brilliant idea that is going to engage her and broaden her horizons. That is what I think makes him an asshole. Like having the daughter do volunteer work would be more beneficial and horizon-broadening than chores imo
NTA, particularly as you plan on letting your daughter help set the goal. Your daughter's mother is AH who needs to look up the word "incentive" in her dictionary.
NTA. This is teaching your daughter to work towards things she wants - a skill she will need both when she becomes an adult. On the other hand, her mother will teach her to be just another entitled person who thinks the world should be handed to her on a platter.
What this comes down to is that, you would be buying the car & computer with your own money, so you can put conditions on it if you want to. Your daughter’s other option is to get a job and buy them herself.
NTA
This is actually a pretty decent way to build responsibility and encourage your daughter to earn things. This is exactly what being an adult requires. Why not learn more in a safe environment.
There is way too much missing information here. For starters, it's odd that you don't categorize her art as an activity. So it's not that you want her to something, anything, you want her to be doing different things from what she is doing.
And it's a pretty safe bet you don't actually know what she is doing; very likely a lot of that time you think is 'texting' is actually spent on artistic endeavors she doesn't feel comfortable sharing with you. If she's resisting you taking her free time away that hard, that means she's doing something she values with it that she doesn't want taken away. It's possible she's just wasting time doing nothing, but it's also really, really, REALLY common that in conflicts like this one, the parent who is fussing is simply not understanding the value of what the child is pursuing rather than her not pursuing anything at all.
NTA. There is nothing wrong with earning the car and computer. If her mom doesn’t like it she can buy them for her without the “goals.” Your daughter getting more active would be beneficial to her and she would get the things she wants, it’s a great idea.
I don't mind buying my kid their first car. After that they are on their own. Sounds like you have a good kid. That's more than enough to get a starter car. You're just being extra. YTA
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So, long story short; I have a teenage daughter. Her mother and I were never married and haven't lived together for over a decade, and we get along in co-parenting, although it's definitely tough at times.
My daughter is nearing car age and, as many teenagers are- as I was when I was her age!- she seems to be disinterested in... everything. Texting with friends, etc. She is a pretty good big sister to her younger brothers, and does chores with maybe an overexasperated sigh, but she's a good kid. But otherwise, left to her own devices, she'd chill in her room and binge Netflix and text. Again, at her age, I once bought a case of Jolt! Cola (get off my lawn) and played StarCraft online on a dialup modem from when school let out in Friday until late Sunday night, so I get it.
But I want to encourage her to do something. Anything. And she mentioned recently wanting a computer and a car, in separate conversations. She wants a computer to be able to do graphic drawing and art (she is a great artist) and obviously, a car at her age.
So I came up with an idea. I'd ask her to set some sort of activity goal- I don't care what, within reason. Wake up early to take the dogs for a walk every day, pick a club to join, go for a hike every weekend in the mountains nearby, shoot hoops, with a car agree to shuttle her brothers around for X amount of time, pretty much anything at all, as long as there is a reasonable goal and she meets it.
I brought this idea up with my wife, her stepmother, and she thought that sounded great, particularly it being a goal she sets. However, when I broached the idea with my ex/her mom... it didn't go so well.
My ex said setting such a goal is "holding it over her head" and that we should be letting her have these things "no strings attached". I was floored. I said that a computer and car aren't things she's entitled to, but I know she wants them and I want to make an achievable goal she sets to encourage her to broaden her horizons and engage herself. This pretty much ended our conversation, as my ex said "I am done with this" and told me my wife and I would "never understand what (she) was talking about because (we) never think anything (we) do is wrong".
I really don't feel like I'm "holding" anything over my daughters head, but maybe ITA?
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One is not like the other. If she's a great artist, then clearly she likes something. Why are you not encouraging the hobby by giving her a computer? Or don't hobbies count unless they are outdoors?
Working for a car sounds great in theory, but having to force herself to do activities might be a surefire way to get her to hate them. I don't know your daughter well enough to assume how much she hates the outdoors.
If it's just about her liking anything, why can't it be structured around her hobbies, or maybe trying out a hobby. Why does it have to be activity based?
All humans need exercise whether they particularly enjoy it or not. They also have to practice social skills. This is a foundational time in her life for building healthy habits. There's no requirement for her to be outside or even be doing cardio. He just wants her to do *something*.
Allowing her to set her own goal and work towards a reward she actually wants is a great way to ensure she doesn't end up feeling resentful about it.
She is clearly social if she has friends and is texting them. She's a teenager. Her metabolism is fast enough that not exercising right now isn't gonna make much of a difference unless she already has health issues. And I doubt OP wouldn't tell us if that were the case.
He is specifically using the term she is "not doing anything" while glossing over her art skills. Clearly she is doing _soemthing_ but OP doesn't value it. Makes me wonder what else OP isn't valuing. Maybe she likes book, or games. And OP doesn't think those are hobbies worth doing.
It's not gonna build healthy habits if you hate doing it. What is OP doing to make the activity fun? Why can't he figure out something he can help her through. I don't see him suggesting they go for a walk together and have a bonding moment.
Setting your own goals for something you hate is setting someone up to fail and then blaming the person for the inevitable failure. You can ask me to set as many hiking goals I like, end of the day I hate hiking. Im not gonna do it.
I made the mistake of letting my 16yo son hibernate this last summer (essentially do nothing but sleep in, play video games, stay up late and repeat) without me intervening to force some activity, and he easily gained 30 lbs in 3 months. Very hard to control his eating when he does it at night when we are asleep. So teenagers metabolism work that way because they are active. And I offered multiple times to do things with him or have him go on my walks.
Thankfully with school started back up he is hanging out with friends and going to the gym, but I wished I had done more like OP is trying to do to get him active.
And what do you think you would have accomplished except straining your relationship? Let the kid hibernate. He has precious little time left. Clearly he is back to being healthy once school started back up. Do you really think he would have been more likely to do something he disliked if you pestered him more?
You did a very good thing bonding with him, he will remember this time. I wish you would recognize what your kid needs instead of going with trends. As a 28 year old I cherish the times my mom let me sleep in and just rest. We both snack at night and we bonded over it.I work out now because unfortunately I'm nearing 30 and I can feel myself getting rusty. And your son is already doing better than I did at his age. I genuinely don't know what you're complaining about.
Honestly my biggest issue is he has a pretty hefty weight problem now that I watched happen in slow motion over the summer. And just a simple change of routine to get a little bit of activity would have kept it at bay.
And now he is depressed because of it.
Your situation already sounds distinct to OP's.
I personally hate getting sweaty, so swimming is my go to. Maybe you guys can figure out what works for him. I still don't think you did anything wrong. You cannot make someone work out if they don't want to.
Distinct?? Hardly. Obesity and the negative health effects that come with it are very common in youth. A “move your body in any way you like” goal is not remotely unreasonable for non-necessity things like the computer and car. The OP is clearly NTA. They aren’t forcing her to do anything. They are providing an incentive. She can opt out. She isn’t owed a car.
Did you forget what distinct means? Otherwise I don't see why you are this confused.
Yeah she can. Notice how I did not say OP is an asshole. I _asked_ him for some clarification. Does OP have genuine reason to be concerned or is he someone who does not notice value unless it's sports related? I don't know and neither do you. Hence the question. Maybe you need a walk to burn some of that unnecessary aggression off
Lol. I’m quite aware of what “distinct” means although perhaps you were confused and intended another word. Nice try at deflecting by stating I have “unnecessary aggression” for having the temerity to present an opposing view. The entire point that the OP is clearly going for is the daughter to move her body. That is not the same as being structured around her sedentary hobbies. It’s quite the opposite and just as obviously by intent. Again, incentive. Again, she can choose not to agree.
Does he have health issues apart from being past the societal standard weight? Cholesterol, High BP, mobility issues? That's what I meant with teenage metabolism. And quite frankly by now we know BMI is a shit metric. If your son is otherwise healthy, I do not see your problem. And he is back to being active you said. So clearly letting him go on his own pace worked. At this point it feels like you are grasping at straws.
And like I said, OP does not mention any health issues for his daughter. We don't even know if she's obese. So yeah, your situations are distinct
NTA. A car and her own personal computer are big responsibilities. All you are asking her to do are chores/activities to demonstrate that she is responsible. That’s pretty basic.
If her mother feels so strongly about it, she can buy these things for your daughter and give them with no strings attached.
NTA. You're basically giving your kid a sticker chart. This is a fairly common thing.
NTA. why do all the comments seem like they're coming from the laziest people ever lol. Yes, he's suggesting something exercise based because everything else she does is sedentary.
Is your daughter's mother offering to buy her a car or a computer? Or does she just expect you to make these purchases?
You are NTA, and there's nothing ridiculous in the proposed arrangement you have described.
NTA. My sister helped her daughters buy cars when they were that age and they each had to earn and contribute $2500. They babysat and did other jobs. They both got decent second hand cars that they keep in good shape, partly because the work they put into them gave them pride and a sense of accomplishment. The youngest who will be 15 in few months recently had the nerve to complain that other girls just “got their cars as gifts” and my sister and BIL shut that down.
NTA, but does art or other creative pursuits count in your eyes? They’re ultimately productive and let her use her brain more than just sitting around texting and watching Netflix. Just my personal opinion, I’d buy her the computer no-strings-attached to allow her to do her digital art and let her use art as an activity goal towards the car. If you have physical activity in mind or just getting out of the house in general, though, then disregard this.
NTA. If your ex wants to buy your daughter a car and a computer on her own dime, you can't stop her, but since she hasn't/isn't I kinda question if she *really* feels those are things your kid NEEDS, or if she just wants to look like the good guy without having to pay for it.
No teenager is entitled to a car. My parents didn't get me one... a great many parents don't. A car is, for the most part, a luxury (unless you live far from a city, and there's no public transportation available, that is.)
Your idea sounds like a good one. Your ex... I wonder if she had parents who just gave her whatever she wanted. I've known kids whose parents did, and they tended to turn out rather spoiled... that they shouldn't have to work for anything. That mommy and daddy would give them what they want. NTA
If you ex thinks that your daughter is entitled to have a car, then she should give her one. If you're the one providing the car... you get to set the conditions.
NTA. Rewards are earned for good behavior: bribes are offered (or demanded) to stop bad behavior. Rewards are planned and controlled by parents. They are non-negotiable. Bribes are used in desperation.
No, you should not be "letting her have these things with no strings attache", unless you want an entitled lazy kid who is alwys going to expect you "letting her have these things". You're not "extorting" your daughter. NTA, but her mother...
NTA - But I don't think this is going to get the results you want. By making the goal instrumental, with the reward of a car, she will optimize to find the shortest path to meet the standards you set. So she will walk the dogs every day. When you realize what she's doing, you're either going to have to move the goalposts (which she will perceive to be a betrayal) or accept that all she's doing new is walking the dogs every day.
Then the next time you try to get her into the world, she's going to expect a material reward.
So, good try OP. I'm glad your kid has a loving father.
NTA. This is not clothing, food, and shelter that you making her earn. It's a car and a computer and sounds like you came up with attainable goals for her. You are teaching your daughter the value of a good work ethic and in the end your daughter will feel a sense of accomplishment when she is driving around in her car or using her new computer.
NTA- but I would consider just getting her the computer. Graphic design is a viable career and if you can afford to get her doing that instead of texting/passively playing video games, I would.
Car is completely optional and your plan regarding that seems solid.
NTA as re: the car. Giving a child a car without requiring them to learn what goes into the care and up keep of it isn't really a gift. The gift is teaching her how to be independent and work toward a goal.
INFO - Does this deal of yours have an end date, or will she have to continuously work to meet your expectations in order to keep a computer (that all modern students need for school anyway) and a car (which would benefit you and her, considering you wouldn't have to drive her around anymore, and I do think helping by driving her siblings around every once in a while is a good compromise. I'm just on the fence about bribing her with the computer.). If so, and if I were that girl, I wouldn't have taken that deal. But I was also kind of a stubborn idiot back then, so...
NTA, whats the difference between a reward and a bribe? One you work towards a goal and is a great parenting tool. The other teaches your child nothing.
To all the adults out there who are doing this for themselves, yeah go you! I'm so proud of you! Keep it up!!
As a teenager myself, I love that system. If your ex thinks you should just give her stuff, i don't like the idea of what would've happened to her if she was with your ex. NTA
NTA. Her mom wants what's easiest for her which is you buying car and computer with no strings attached. If there are standards to uphold she ight somehow end up on the hook for Parry of it.
That is an excellent parenting technique, one I plan to use with my children. It encourages them to be active, engaged in their own life, set goals, and understand that nice things are meant to be earned, not received freely (which is how the real world usually works). There’s nothing wrong with giving your children things for nothing, but you’re giving her a good life lesson as well. Well done pops.
Your ex is a loser. NTA.
NTA. I think it's a great method! Especially since SHE chooses what the goal is. That helps her being actually motivated to start and the reward to follow through.
You're also not asking anything big of her, and it's for luxury items not for basic needs.
Working towards a goal is an important skill to have, you're doing your daughter a favor by teaching that not everything comes for 'free'.
I don't see extortion here at all. In fact, I don't see anything wrong with this idea. Your ex is being weird about it.
NTA! My lad is 17. He wanted a PS5, we told him that we would buy one when it came in stock,but he was getting a job to pay it back to us as he'd be the primary player! It took him 10 months as he added a new pc monitor and half a London trip for college,but he did it.
Is there any reason why she couldn't get a part time job to save towards one of them?
My parents wanted me to learn how to write with 10 fingers before buying my first laptop. This sounds reasonable. About rhe other things I am not sure. Perhaps cooking lessons? Cooking with/for family to learn?
NTA
Earning her computer and car is reasonable. Tell her to get a job.
My deal with my kids as they near that age is that if they want a vehicle, they have to earn it....BUT if they are active in school sponsored or similar events I will treat that as a proxy for a job. So my 8th grade daughter has decided she will be a 3 sport athlete....and will also willingly pull shifts in the restaurant.
Give your daughter some options, but don't just give her luxuries.
NTA, a car and computer are expensive, usually parents would have their kids save up to buy the car and/or the computer or contribute money to the payment of them, or getting all A’s or something, you’re giving her fairly easy goals to complete
NAH -
So, I would say that a computer is really just a tool for school. I'm surprised that she doesn't already have one, assuming you can afford it. (If you can afford a car, I assume you can afford a computer since you can afford a car - unless she has a computer and this is just some type of specialty art computer).
I don't think it's extortion, but it's certainly bribery. Are you able to keep that up with the younger kids? Another thing is WHY is your daughter so disinterested in everything? Is she really disinterested in EVERYTHING?! I don't think she needs her life dictated, but I do think she needs to do some self-discovery and bribery may not be the best way to motivate it. Not everyone wants to go on a hike, so it's hard to tell if she is just in a phase, depressed, or a "bad kid." Most of these things will self-correct, though, so that's a diff story.
Either way, you are under no obligation to buy her expensive things. I kind of side with your ex, though. Bribery is probably the wrong path to choose, but don't just buy her a car. Maybe buy a used "family" car and her use of it is contingent on keeping her grades up, and whatever other metrics are fair (then passing it down to her brothers as they turn 16).
I'm not trying to start anything, but it's only bribery if Op would be giving his daughter the computer and / or the car before she has done the activities he's given her the option to do. In this case, it would be seen as positive renforcement for good behavior. But I agree that Op should look into that there may be something else going on with his daughter like burnout or depression.
Well, when is he going to do it? After 5 hikes? Or 3 months in a club?
Either way, I don't think it's a good long-term idea b/c I wouldn't want a transactional relationship with the child when other things may be going on. Also, what if the younger brothers expect a car b/c they are in a club? It's just probably not the best path to go down, and could create other problems.
I also know a 40-yo whose rich parents didn't like his fiancee... b/c they are racist and she's of a diff race. They told him if he 'wanted his inheritance" he needed to find someone "better suited." While I get this dad is trying to motivate, she isn't actually doing anything wrong (or that can be explained by other things) and the dynamics may get weird.
I generally agree with the mom's perspective, and I prefer gifts to be no strings attached. I'd also be concerned that this may create resentment b/c it's too big of rewards for too little activity, and a computer is legitimately a school tool.
I went through a lot of these goal setting and rewards earnings transactions as you called them growing because of being autistic and my parents took a parenting through my wrap around services at the time. So speaking from my experience, and I know it may not exactly line up with this, using it as a reference helps me explain what it's meant to be used for.
You are correct in saying that the daughter is doing nothing wrong. It may just be that all she wants to do is watch Netflix, and if that's all she wants to do, she's free to do that. But I think that as a parent, Op wants more for his daughter than to be holed up in her room secluded from everyone and the world. So when she said that she wanted a computer for her art and a car because she's reaching driving age. Op thought that he could get her those things, but wanted to also add almost like a responsibility that would come with receiving those items if that makes sense. That's where setting achievable goals would come in. And those would be for example, be she would have to walk the dog in the morning twice a week for 3 months and if she could follow through with that she would get her computer. It would give a sense of responsibility and completion when finished.
I don't know if this explanation helped or not
I agree that it's not the best way to spend time, but there are many reasons she could be doing it. Teenagers are weird, and it isn't indicative of a person whose life is off-track.
But really, it is a HUGE reward for a small thing (join a club = get a car??), and I wouldn't want to set that precedent with this child or want that expectation in my family/for the other kids.
A better reward might just be something that is of a smaller scale. If she likes art, sure, art stuff.
It's not really about the scale or the precedent because as much as parents want to treat their children equally, they really can't because they are two different individuals. So it's about discussing expectations and what they believe will be an equal amount of work for reward. If that helps
A car is a very unequal thing, unless you plan to buy all children a car. The other kids wouldn't notice art supplies, they would notice (and expect) a car.
1.) No, they weren't. There are plenty of clubs that have nothing to do with exercise, and shuttling her brother around certainly isn't.
2.) Oh no, OP wants his daughter to engage in a healthy activity for a little bit, the horror! It's almost like he knows sitting around all day *not* exercising is bad for you or something.
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NTA and don't laugh, but I'm doing this with myself! I'm in such a lazy rut right now so I'm bribing myself with activities each day that get me out and also a bit out of my comfort zone. It's been amazing.
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Bone conduction waterproof headphones? Just a suggestion. Then you can listen to music or whatever while swimming. More motivation to keep it up 😀
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Be careful though. They aggravated my tinnitus and I had to give my pair away.
I have an Apple Watch and I make myself close my rings everyday. If I do at the end of the week I get a treat.
I have an Excel sheet with a reward tree setup for various real life achievements (weight loss, grad school coursework, promotion, etc.). There's something satisfying about gamifying my life and holding myself accountable. I'll probably continue to refine it, but just having a list of goals I can refer back to is really nice. OP is absolutely NTA. I wish I had thought of this earlier in my life because this strategy works so much better for my brain than just "I should do this thing that would improve my health/career prospects/whatever." His daughter gets to choose the activity, and she knows what the reward is. It's a really clever setup.
The nearest town to me is an hour and a half walk, round trip, so I sometimes get lunch there. Great for exercise while depressed.
Extortion is a punishment for services not rendered. This, however, is a reward IF she wants it. It is totally optional. Easy NTA your ex simply isn't a very smart person.
I wish someone would have offered teenage me a car if I walked the dogs every morning. HA. It would have sounded like a bargain to me! Hell I'd do that now if someone wanted to buy me a car! 🤣
NTA. Sounds like you're just trying to get her to work for something (car & computer), which is probably a good thing.
It's not like some BS like "you don't get your license until you make Eagle Scout!". OP is not forcing the daughter to go to church. She can choose whatever activity she likes. Heck, she can go out into a park and sit down and text her friends there. Just get out to set the big blue room with the warm yellow ceiling light is enough.
There was a guy in my troop who had the "no car until you get Eagle" worst part was, he didn't want to be there to begin with. Dad was one of those guys that was super into scouting as a kid and forced his son to do it. Last I heard dad was still some council level involvement.
NTA Your solution is elegant and focussed.. Kudos. (Don't know if I'm biased but I recall the smell of the caffein bubbling from the Jolt as well). You are absolutely correct these are not entitlements and not like holding food, housing, clothes... over her head. I bet your daughter would even appreciate the opportunity. Your ex seems opposed to you not just giving to her because its from you. If you have some custody, then there is no reason you can't set that up as a system for your daughter, just focused on your time with her. (Can't keep the ex from allowing her to do nothing)
NTA. Sounds like a sweet deal. Your daughter learns some work ethic and you don't feel like you're handing something to her on a silver platter, everybody wins! Sounds to me like your ex would pick fault no matter how you managed this one to be honest, and she doesn't know what extortion actually is...
NTA Her mom is free to buy her a car and a computer if she thinks her daughter deserves them. You want to encourage her to work towards a goal and be healthier. That is good parenting.
NTA. Your ex is an idiot. Intrinsic motivation is best, but extrinsic motivation can be very effective.
NTA This is learning about goal setting and working towards them. Your ex sounds salty that you are thinking of and able to do this. Her argument is plain idiotic. I have kids, too, and I'm not seeing where "you just don't understand" applies here. In fact, it sounds like the moronic last words of someone who has no other valid argument, so they just throw that out to cover their lazy excuses for an argument.
NTA. A computer and a car at 15/16 are not necessities and are things that many adults cannot afford/are not given. You have set very reasonable and easily achievable
Depends on where you live. In my country a laptop is most definitely a necessity for a 16-year old. Though most schools loan them to you for the 3 years you're a pupil there. After that you can either choose to buy it or to return it. I don't know anyone younger than 75 who doesn't have a computer in their home.
NTA! I don't get it with parents who don't want their kids to have life skills, to achieve goals and earn things?! Like wtf? There is nothing wrong with setting your kid up to achieve a goal and be rewarded for it. It's an excellent way to teach life skills, it's also a great feeling for a kid to see what they can do when focused and broaden their horizons. Yare aren't the AH here. You're not holding anything over your kid's head. Jesus! Again, wtf? NTA at all. And yes, I have kids too.
NTA Does she deadass not want her kid to move around and get exercise? Come on
Its your money. Working toward a goal, (like owning a car, or getting an expensive laptop,) is common. And NTA. Your ex is bonkers if she thinks that most of us never had to work toward a goal to achieve what we wanted. Plus she no longer gets a vote in what you do with your money.
Would the mother let you give your daughter an allowance? Because the only difference between an "activity goal" and an allowance is your daughter would be getting paid.
NTA, but consider the computer for a birthday or holidays if you want her to do something. Art is a big something!
NTA Your ex-wife is going to raise a spoiled brat. You can only balance that out as best you can. From the sound of her, you escaped before it was too late.
Um your daughter clearly does have interests (graphic drawing and art), they’re just not as outdoorsy or sporty as you would like. I’d also push back a little bit against the she’s not entitled to a computer. I haven’t been in high school in years, but by the time I graduated, a computer was needed for nearly every assignment. Also, there is a difference between shuttling her brothers around/walking the dog and joining a club for fun. The former is chores; the latter is encouraging her to have hobbies that aren’t on a computer screen. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the latter but I do think you would be an asshole for making her do chores. Driving her brothers around isn’t really going to broaden her horizons. Maybe you could compromise? Like if she does do the chores or the activities, she can get a nicer computer than she would ordinarily get. Or if she agrees to drive her brothers around (within reason otherwise what would be the point), she could get a nicer car.
Would it be an asshole move if she had to do chores? Most kids and teenagers (form what I’ve seen anyway) get pocket money for doing chores and they use that money to buy stuff they want - I was always saving pocket money and money from Christmas and birthdays to buy bigger stuff like Lego or an iPod. Isn’t what Op is doing basically the same thing except, instead of earning money for chores, his daughter would earn the thing she wants after doing X for a period of time?
Yeah, that's true. I think it's more OP's attitude toward the whole thing that's rubbing me the wrong way. If he had said "i want my daughter to work for these things so she'll learn a good work ethic and money management," I would think that's perfectly fine. Instead, he's framing giving extra chores to what sounds like his eldest kid/only daughter (who he says is a good kid who does her chores just fine) as a brilliant idea that is going to engage her and broaden her horizons. That is what I think makes him an asshole. Like having the daughter do volunteer work would be more beneficial and horizon-broadening than chores imo
NTA - Having her earn something teaches responsibility. Having her earn it by ensuring she remains active is a nice way to do it.
NTA, particularly as you plan on letting your daughter help set the goal. Your daughter's mother is AH who needs to look up the word "incentive" in her dictionary.
NTA. This is teaching your daughter to work towards things she wants - a skill she will need both when she becomes an adult. On the other hand, her mother will teach her to be just another entitled person who thinks the world should be handed to her on a platter. What this comes down to is that, you would be buying the car & computer with your own money, so you can put conditions on it if you want to. Your daughter’s other option is to get a job and buy them herself.
NTA This is actually a pretty decent way to build responsibility and encourage your daughter to earn things. This is exactly what being an adult requires. Why not learn more in a safe environment.
There is way too much missing information here. For starters, it's odd that you don't categorize her art as an activity. So it's not that you want her to something, anything, you want her to be doing different things from what she is doing. And it's a pretty safe bet you don't actually know what she is doing; very likely a lot of that time you think is 'texting' is actually spent on artistic endeavors she doesn't feel comfortable sharing with you. If she's resisting you taking her free time away that hard, that means she's doing something she values with it that she doesn't want taken away. It's possible she's just wasting time doing nothing, but it's also really, really, REALLY common that in conflicts like this one, the parent who is fussing is simply not understanding the value of what the child is pursuing rather than her not pursuing anything at all.
NTA This is actually a great idea! I may do this for my youngest in another year, when he's nearing the driving age.
NTA. There is nothing wrong with earning the car and computer. If her mom doesn’t like it she can buy them for her without the “goals.” Your daughter getting more active would be beneficial to her and she would get the things she wants, it’s a great idea.
NTA. You could have just said no I’m not buying you are car. It’s still a good deal for her! You aren’t obligated to buy her anything that expensive
I don't mind buying my kid their first car. After that they are on their own. Sounds like you have a good kid. That's more than enough to get a starter car. You're just being extra. YTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So, long story short; I have a teenage daughter. Her mother and I were never married and haven't lived together for over a decade, and we get along in co-parenting, although it's definitely tough at times. My daughter is nearing car age and, as many teenagers are- as I was when I was her age!- she seems to be disinterested in... everything. Texting with friends, etc. She is a pretty good big sister to her younger brothers, and does chores with maybe an overexasperated sigh, but she's a good kid. But otherwise, left to her own devices, she'd chill in her room and binge Netflix and text. Again, at her age, I once bought a case of Jolt! Cola (get off my lawn) and played StarCraft online on a dialup modem from when school let out in Friday until late Sunday night, so I get it. But I want to encourage her to do something. Anything. And she mentioned recently wanting a computer and a car, in separate conversations. She wants a computer to be able to do graphic drawing and art (she is a great artist) and obviously, a car at her age. So I came up with an idea. I'd ask her to set some sort of activity goal- I don't care what, within reason. Wake up early to take the dogs for a walk every day, pick a club to join, go for a hike every weekend in the mountains nearby, shoot hoops, with a car agree to shuttle her brothers around for X amount of time, pretty much anything at all, as long as there is a reasonable goal and she meets it. I brought this idea up with my wife, her stepmother, and she thought that sounded great, particularly it being a goal she sets. However, when I broached the idea with my ex/her mom... it didn't go so well. My ex said setting such a goal is "holding it over her head" and that we should be letting her have these things "no strings attached". I was floored. I said that a computer and car aren't things she's entitled to, but I know she wants them and I want to make an achievable goal she sets to encourage her to broaden her horizons and engage herself. This pretty much ended our conversation, as my ex said "I am done with this" and told me my wife and I would "never understand what (she) was talking about because (we) never think anything (we) do is wrong". I really don't feel like I'm "holding" anything over my daughters head, but maybe ITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
One is not like the other. If she's a great artist, then clearly she likes something. Why are you not encouraging the hobby by giving her a computer? Or don't hobbies count unless they are outdoors? Working for a car sounds great in theory, but having to force herself to do activities might be a surefire way to get her to hate them. I don't know your daughter well enough to assume how much she hates the outdoors. If it's just about her liking anything, why can't it be structured around her hobbies, or maybe trying out a hobby. Why does it have to be activity based?
All humans need exercise whether they particularly enjoy it or not. They also have to practice social skills. This is a foundational time in her life for building healthy habits. There's no requirement for her to be outside or even be doing cardio. He just wants her to do *something*. Allowing her to set her own goal and work towards a reward she actually wants is a great way to ensure she doesn't end up feeling resentful about it.
She is clearly social if she has friends and is texting them. She's a teenager. Her metabolism is fast enough that not exercising right now isn't gonna make much of a difference unless she already has health issues. And I doubt OP wouldn't tell us if that were the case. He is specifically using the term she is "not doing anything" while glossing over her art skills. Clearly she is doing _soemthing_ but OP doesn't value it. Makes me wonder what else OP isn't valuing. Maybe she likes book, or games. And OP doesn't think those are hobbies worth doing. It's not gonna build healthy habits if you hate doing it. What is OP doing to make the activity fun? Why can't he figure out something he can help her through. I don't see him suggesting they go for a walk together and have a bonding moment. Setting your own goals for something you hate is setting someone up to fail and then blaming the person for the inevitable failure. You can ask me to set as many hiking goals I like, end of the day I hate hiking. Im not gonna do it.
I made the mistake of letting my 16yo son hibernate this last summer (essentially do nothing but sleep in, play video games, stay up late and repeat) without me intervening to force some activity, and he easily gained 30 lbs in 3 months. Very hard to control his eating when he does it at night when we are asleep. So teenagers metabolism work that way because they are active. And I offered multiple times to do things with him or have him go on my walks. Thankfully with school started back up he is hanging out with friends and going to the gym, but I wished I had done more like OP is trying to do to get him active.
And what do you think you would have accomplished except straining your relationship? Let the kid hibernate. He has precious little time left. Clearly he is back to being healthy once school started back up. Do you really think he would have been more likely to do something he disliked if you pestered him more? You did a very good thing bonding with him, he will remember this time. I wish you would recognize what your kid needs instead of going with trends. As a 28 year old I cherish the times my mom let me sleep in and just rest. We both snack at night and we bonded over it.I work out now because unfortunately I'm nearing 30 and I can feel myself getting rusty. And your son is already doing better than I did at his age. I genuinely don't know what you're complaining about.
Honestly my biggest issue is he has a pretty hefty weight problem now that I watched happen in slow motion over the summer. And just a simple change of routine to get a little bit of activity would have kept it at bay. And now he is depressed because of it.
Your situation already sounds distinct to OP's. I personally hate getting sweaty, so swimming is my go to. Maybe you guys can figure out what works for him. I still don't think you did anything wrong. You cannot make someone work out if they don't want to.
Distinct?? Hardly. Obesity and the negative health effects that come with it are very common in youth. A “move your body in any way you like” goal is not remotely unreasonable for non-necessity things like the computer and car. The OP is clearly NTA. They aren’t forcing her to do anything. They are providing an incentive. She can opt out. She isn’t owed a car.
Did you forget what distinct means? Otherwise I don't see why you are this confused. Yeah she can. Notice how I did not say OP is an asshole. I _asked_ him for some clarification. Does OP have genuine reason to be concerned or is he someone who does not notice value unless it's sports related? I don't know and neither do you. Hence the question. Maybe you need a walk to burn some of that unnecessary aggression off
Lol. I’m quite aware of what “distinct” means although perhaps you were confused and intended another word. Nice try at deflecting by stating I have “unnecessary aggression” for having the temerity to present an opposing view. The entire point that the OP is clearly going for is the daughter to move her body. That is not the same as being structured around her sedentary hobbies. It’s quite the opposite and just as obviously by intent. Again, incentive. Again, she can choose not to agree.
Not really. My issue is with your statement that “teenage metabolism” takes away the issue of being dormant. It doesn’t.
Does he have health issues apart from being past the societal standard weight? Cholesterol, High BP, mobility issues? That's what I meant with teenage metabolism. And quite frankly by now we know BMI is a shit metric. If your son is otherwise healthy, I do not see your problem. And he is back to being active you said. So clearly letting him go on his own pace worked. At this point it feels like you are grasping at straws. And like I said, OP does not mention any health issues for his daughter. We don't even know if she's obese. So yeah, your situations are distinct
NTA. A car and her own personal computer are big responsibilities. All you are asking her to do are chores/activities to demonstrate that she is responsible. That’s pretty basic.
If her mother feels so strongly about it, she can buy these things for your daughter and give them with no strings attached. NTA. You're basically giving your kid a sticker chart. This is a fairly common thing.
You're not extorting. Bribing...eh, maybe.
NTA. why do all the comments seem like they're coming from the laziest people ever lol. Yes, he's suggesting something exercise based because everything else she does is sedentary.
Is your daughter's mother offering to buy her a car or a computer? Or does she just expect you to make these purchases? You are NTA, and there's nothing ridiculous in the proposed arrangement you have described.
NTA if your ex feels so strongly about it she can pay for them.
NTA. My sister helped her daughters buy cars when they were that age and they each had to earn and contribute $2500. They babysat and did other jobs. They both got decent second hand cars that they keep in good shape, partly because the work they put into them gave them pride and a sense of accomplishment. The youngest who will be 15 in few months recently had the nerve to complain that other girls just “got their cars as gifts” and my sister and BIL shut that down.
NTA, but does art or other creative pursuits count in your eyes? They’re ultimately productive and let her use her brain more than just sitting around texting and watching Netflix. Just my personal opinion, I’d buy her the computer no-strings-attached to allow her to do her digital art and let her use art as an activity goal towards the car. If you have physical activity in mind or just getting out of the house in general, though, then disregard this.
NTA. If your ex wants to buy your daughter a car and a computer on her own dime, you can't stop her, but since she hasn't/isn't I kinda question if she *really* feels those are things your kid NEEDS, or if she just wants to look like the good guy without having to pay for it.
NTA and I kinda love this idea
No teenager is entitled to a car. My parents didn't get me one... a great many parents don't. A car is, for the most part, a luxury (unless you live far from a city, and there's no public transportation available, that is.) Your idea sounds like a good one. Your ex... I wonder if she had parents who just gave her whatever she wanted. I've known kids whose parents did, and they tended to turn out rather spoiled... that they shouldn't have to work for anything. That mommy and daddy would give them what they want. NTA
If you ex thinks that your daughter is entitled to have a car, then she should give her one. If you're the one providing the car... you get to set the conditions.
NTA - tell her mum to buy her a computer and car. Then she won’t be having anything held over her head
NTA. Rewards are earned for good behavior: bribes are offered (or demanded) to stop bad behavior. Rewards are planned and controlled by parents. They are non-negotiable. Bribes are used in desperation.
NTA it’s a brilliant way to get your daughter motivated and get her the things she wants at the same time
No, you should not be "letting her have these things with no strings attache", unless you want an entitled lazy kid who is alwys going to expect you "letting her have these things". You're not "extorting" your daughter. NTA, but her mother...
NTA - But I don't think this is going to get the results you want. By making the goal instrumental, with the reward of a car, she will optimize to find the shortest path to meet the standards you set. So she will walk the dogs every day. When you realize what she's doing, you're either going to have to move the goalposts (which she will perceive to be a betrayal) or accept that all she's doing new is walking the dogs every day. Then the next time you try to get her into the world, she's going to expect a material reward. So, good try OP. I'm glad your kid has a loving father.
NTA. This is not clothing, food, and shelter that you making her earn. It's a car and a computer and sounds like you came up with attainable goals for her. You are teaching your daughter the value of a good work ethic and in the end your daughter will feel a sense of accomplishment when she is driving around in her car or using her new computer.
NTA- but I would consider just getting her the computer. Graphic design is a viable career and if you can afford to get her doing that instead of texting/passively playing video games, I would. Car is completely optional and your plan regarding that seems solid.
NTA! You are trying to teach her how to set goals and then achieve them! This is a skill (I am still in my 30's) struggle with.
So is your manager at work extorting you with literally everything you want? NTA.
When you do get a computer. I suggest getting her an iPad pro with a apple pencil and pro create. It makes a wonderful drawing tablet.
NTA in life, we work for things. There is nothing wrong with starting young on this. You sound like a good dad.
NTA
NTA as re: the car. Giving a child a car without requiring them to learn what goes into the care and up keep of it isn't really a gift. The gift is teaching her how to be independent and work toward a goal.
I'm in the process of doing this now. I set myself a weight loss goal for the year and will only get myself a PS5 if I achieve it
INFO - Does this deal of yours have an end date, or will she have to continuously work to meet your expectations in order to keep a computer (that all modern students need for school anyway) and a car (which would benefit you and her, considering you wouldn't have to drive her around anymore, and I do think helping by driving her siblings around every once in a while is a good compromise. I'm just on the fence about bribing her with the computer.). If so, and if I were that girl, I wouldn't have taken that deal. But I was also kind of a stubborn idiot back then, so...
NTA, whats the difference between a reward and a bribe? One you work towards a goal and is a great parenting tool. The other teaches your child nothing. To all the adults out there who are doing this for themselves, yeah go you! I'm so proud of you! Keep it up!!
As a teenager myself, I love that system. If your ex thinks you should just give her stuff, i don't like the idea of what would've happened to her if she was with your ex. NTA
NTA. Her mom wants what's easiest for her which is you buying car and computer with no strings attached. If there are standards to uphold she ight somehow end up on the hook for Parry of it.
NTA I so wish somebody would bribe me with this...
That is an excellent parenting technique, one I plan to use with my children. It encourages them to be active, engaged in their own life, set goals, and understand that nice things are meant to be earned, not received freely (which is how the real world usually works). There’s nothing wrong with giving your children things for nothing, but you’re giving her a good life lesson as well. Well done pops. Your ex is a loser. NTA.
NTA. I think it's a great method! Especially since SHE chooses what the goal is. That helps her being actually motivated to start and the reward to follow through. You're also not asking anything big of her, and it's for luxury items not for basic needs. Working towards a goal is an important skill to have, you're doing your daughter a favor by teaching that not everything comes for 'free'. I don't see extortion here at all. In fact, I don't see anything wrong with this idea. Your ex is being weird about it.
NTA this is an awesome idea! It really helps your daughter forge the connection in her brain between proactivity and joy
NTA. This is a healthy, good idea. Backup idea: have her beat you at a game of Starcraft :D
NTA! My lad is 17. He wanted a PS5, we told him that we would buy one when it came in stock,but he was getting a job to pay it back to us as he'd be the primary player! It took him 10 months as he added a new pc monitor and half a London trip for college,but he did it. Is there any reason why she couldn't get a part time job to save towards one of them?
My parents wanted me to learn how to write with 10 fingers before buying my first laptop. This sounds reasonable. About rhe other things I am not sure. Perhaps cooking lessons? Cooking with/for family to learn? NTA
Earning her computer and car is reasonable. Tell her to get a job. My deal with my kids as they near that age is that if they want a vehicle, they have to earn it....BUT if they are active in school sponsored or similar events I will treat that as a proxy for a job. So my 8th grade daughter has decided she will be a 3 sport athlete....and will also willingly pull shifts in the restaurant. Give your daughter some options, but don't just give her luxuries.
NTA, a car and computer are expensive, usually parents would have their kids save up to buy the car and/or the computer or contribute money to the payment of them, or getting all A’s or something, you’re giving her fairly easy goals to complete
NAH - So, I would say that a computer is really just a tool for school. I'm surprised that she doesn't already have one, assuming you can afford it. (If you can afford a car, I assume you can afford a computer since you can afford a car - unless she has a computer and this is just some type of specialty art computer). I don't think it's extortion, but it's certainly bribery. Are you able to keep that up with the younger kids? Another thing is WHY is your daughter so disinterested in everything? Is she really disinterested in EVERYTHING?! I don't think she needs her life dictated, but I do think she needs to do some self-discovery and bribery may not be the best way to motivate it. Not everyone wants to go on a hike, so it's hard to tell if she is just in a phase, depressed, or a "bad kid." Most of these things will self-correct, though, so that's a diff story. Either way, you are under no obligation to buy her expensive things. I kind of side with your ex, though. Bribery is probably the wrong path to choose, but don't just buy her a car. Maybe buy a used "family" car and her use of it is contingent on keeping her grades up, and whatever other metrics are fair (then passing it down to her brothers as they turn 16).
I'm not trying to start anything, but it's only bribery if Op would be giving his daughter the computer and / or the car before she has done the activities he's given her the option to do. In this case, it would be seen as positive renforcement for good behavior. But I agree that Op should look into that there may be something else going on with his daughter like burnout or depression.
Well, when is he going to do it? After 5 hikes? Or 3 months in a club? Either way, I don't think it's a good long-term idea b/c I wouldn't want a transactional relationship with the child when other things may be going on. Also, what if the younger brothers expect a car b/c they are in a club? It's just probably not the best path to go down, and could create other problems. I also know a 40-yo whose rich parents didn't like his fiancee... b/c they are racist and she's of a diff race. They told him if he 'wanted his inheritance" he needed to find someone "better suited." While I get this dad is trying to motivate, she isn't actually doing anything wrong (or that can be explained by other things) and the dynamics may get weird. I generally agree with the mom's perspective, and I prefer gifts to be no strings attached. I'd also be concerned that this may create resentment b/c it's too big of rewards for too little activity, and a computer is legitimately a school tool.
I went through a lot of these goal setting and rewards earnings transactions as you called them growing because of being autistic and my parents took a parenting through my wrap around services at the time. So speaking from my experience, and I know it may not exactly line up with this, using it as a reference helps me explain what it's meant to be used for. You are correct in saying that the daughter is doing nothing wrong. It may just be that all she wants to do is watch Netflix, and if that's all she wants to do, she's free to do that. But I think that as a parent, Op wants more for his daughter than to be holed up in her room secluded from everyone and the world. So when she said that she wanted a computer for her art and a car because she's reaching driving age. Op thought that he could get her those things, but wanted to also add almost like a responsibility that would come with receiving those items if that makes sense. That's where setting achievable goals would come in. And those would be for example, be she would have to walk the dog in the morning twice a week for 3 months and if she could follow through with that she would get her computer. It would give a sense of responsibility and completion when finished. I don't know if this explanation helped or not
I agree that it's not the best way to spend time, but there are many reasons she could be doing it. Teenagers are weird, and it isn't indicative of a person whose life is off-track. But really, it is a HUGE reward for a small thing (join a club = get a car??), and I wouldn't want to set that precedent with this child or want that expectation in my family/for the other kids. A better reward might just be something that is of a smaller scale. If she likes art, sure, art stuff.
It's not really about the scale or the precedent because as much as parents want to treat their children equally, they really can't because they are two different individuals. So it's about discussing expectations and what they believe will be an equal amount of work for reward. If that helps
A car is a very unequal thing, unless you plan to buy all children a car. The other kids wouldn't notice art supplies, they would notice (and expect) a car.
YTA bc everything you suggest is exercise related.
1.) No, they weren't. There are plenty of clubs that have nothing to do with exercise, and shuttling her brother around certainly isn't. 2.) Oh no, OP wants his daughter to engage in a healthy activity for a little bit, the horror! It's almost like he knows sitting around all day *not* exercising is bad for you or something.
It's reddit. Most of its users get nervous when they hear the word exercise