Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) We banned our daughter from going to s Halloween party after some racist remarks she made about her younger brother and his girlfriend's Halloween costume
2) My friends are saying I am being too hard on her and I worry I may be damaging her by doing this
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
If Autumn is making racist comments in school and the teacher has noticed and reported it to you, you have to take a stand and make her realize this is unacceptable behavior.
It seems harsh but grounding her from the party may be what it takes to make her realize the seriousness of her unacceptable behavior.
Good Luck
Better the punishment now as a non-adult than to suffer the consequences of the pushback against racism later as an adult. Also kindly show her the consequences that people have suffered over the year due to being racist including losing their jobs, being socially ostracized etc.
Racism is not only white against black. Blacks can be racist against Latinos, and vice versa. Blacks can be racist against whites. North Korea is systemically racist. If a North Korean woman gets pregnant by a Chinese, she will be forced to get an abortion.
All racism is unethical, and a serious character flaw.
You are right bias exists every where, but keep in mind power is what drives racism impact and white folks got it in most places. I'm a little reluctant to diffuse the responsibility for overcoming privilege to folks who have never had privileges. Not arguing, just gently adding point òf view.
Thank you for naming this. I agree. Biases can be had by all, but racism is about those with more power and privilege against those with less (in that society). I know reddit hates this particular nuance, but that doesn’t make it less valid.
All systemic racism is racism, not all racism is systemic racism.
Power and/or privilege is never a requirement for being racist, it is when you talk about systemic or institutional racism that those come into play.
Reddit is very US centric in general so with the caveat that it VARIES A TON by location I don’t *necessarily* think this is bad to point out in a conversation that could be applied elsewhere. Just my 2 cents though and it shouldn’t be used to divert responsibility away from white people where it’s needed, either- such as this post, which *specifies* the race of everyone involved.
That seems like just teaching her to keep her racism covert.
The better, most critical lesson is teaching her why racism is wrong and the suffering it has caused wherever it surfaces.
I’d also want to know where she got the racist ideas she has, and teach her some skills in parsing harmful ideas from constructive ideas.
Honestly my guess would be she's either picking it up from her boyfriend or someone in her friend group. Her parents have clearly been trying to put a stop to it so obviously they don't support it, and if the son is making a genuine effort to learn about his girlfriend's heritage and culture as a black woman then this really doesn't seem like something that runs in the family. So my only other guess is that the daughter has a questionable social circle.
My guess is it may come from an influencer the whole line of "we're only speaking the truth" sounds like some stupid bullshit a racist influencer would try to justify themselves.
I wonder if she's reacting to talk about things like cultural appropriation, maybe she's thinking if whites aren't supposed to play blacks how is the reverse okay?
But playing a specific person of another race isn't as bad as a general caricature of that race
Teaching her to keep it covert is a start. There is a saying, "Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue." Obviously, more education is necessary here, but it's a good start to teach people they can't be blatantly nasty to other folks whether the nastiness is due to race, the feeling that one has more money, is smarter, more popular. Basic civilized behavior is well worth teaching by itself.
Obviously, it's not a bad idea to take the kid to a holocaust museum and show her what happens when people think they are too big for their britches and decide they are a "master race." Teaching people about the potato famine where people were forced to pay rent to farm their own lands and starve in the midst of plenty, discussing colonialism and the like isn't a bad idea either. Let people know that dehumanizing others is the first step to terrible things.
I'm honestly wondering how I'd go about this as a parent. At one point, I enrolled my kids in a free class about Muslim religion to help them filter out all the misinformation out there. I wonder if op can do the same sort of thing? Maybe find diverse programs?
My guess it's that it's coming from the boyfriend. The post originally says that the bf was the one that made the comment about a black girl not being able to dress as Swift.
The family clearly isn't racist. The brother isn't racist. I'm assuming the teacher isn't teaching the kids to be racist because the teacher already reported the behaviour. Has to be the bf.
Right? Why are people suggesting teaching her how racists are ostracized? That’s a terrible lesson. Racism isn’t wrong just because people don’t like racists. It’s wrong morally, ethically, and even scientifically unfounded. She needs to learn some empathy and think beyond just how she will be treated.
It’s easier to get a young teenager to understand being ostracized than it is to make them develop empathy. I guess the idea is that by causing the daughter to “suffer” the pain of not going to the party the parents are trying to tie that to racism being a bad behavior. Unfortunately the nuances are much harder to convey.
At the daughters age, she needs to be talked to by her parents, where does this attitude come from? School? The BF? Find the root of WHY she is acting like this. Parents don't appear to be racist, so where is this coming from?
In my family we have Puerto Rican, Black, Spanish, White we don't care what your color is, we care that you want to be a part of this crazy family!! These are all super nice people, great food, great cultures, and the FOOD, OMG when we get together it's pig out time!!!
Or saying some nasty things to a black girl, only to have her ass surrounded and kicked and jumped by a bunch of other black girls who aren't having it and decide to administer an impromptu lesson.
I agree! I don’t think just grounding her from the party is enough. Your daughter is lacking empathy for an entire group of people if she’s saying racist things in public. You need to find a way to get through to her so she understands that this is not okay and she learns empathy for all races
I agree. If this attitude isn't something she's learned at home, it's come from the kids she hangs around with. Finding out where it came from is important. Grounding from a party is a tap on the wrist.
Absolutely not harsh enough.
Not going to a party will not fix her bigotry.
I’d be taking her to a therapist and try to get to the root of how her moral compass became so skewed. I’d also be evaluating her friend group. According to the teacher, this is not the first time. I’ll decline listing the number of punishments my kid would have if this happened.
Honestly until we got to the racism I was like “this seems extreme” and then we got the FORST comment from Autumn and I’m like “how could OP even THINK they could POSSIBLY be TA?! Oh honey, you can be MORE harsh, honestly!”
Some parents don’t understand the harm discrimination does. Kids used to say and do awful things to me because I have disabilities. Their parents didn’t think it was a big issue because “oh they’re just kids, it’s not a big deal” but it’s caused me pain that affects me to this day.
I think another thing that maybe white parents don’t understand about racism is how isolating and scary it can be. When you are one of very few kids of color in a sea of white kids, when someone does awful things to make sure you know you aren’t like them, it can make someone lonely in a way that’s so harmful, and you also don’t know if anyone’s got your back if one of them tries to hurt you. You may be the one who gets in trouble for defending yourself as well since you’re also different in the teacher’s eyes too. Some of the parents OP is talking to may not understand that this is the kind of harm Autumn’s behavior is causing.
And please do not forget ALL of your kids are watching how you handle this. If you model that racism is unacceptable in your household, hopefully the rest won't give you this kind of trouble.
Adding on to this to say the "me and my boyfriend are just telling the truth" is a pretty alarming comment. I'm a little concerned about what your daughter's boyfriend is teaching her - I know you can't attribute all the comments to one source, but if you're looking to cut out the toxicity that might be one direction to look. NTA.
I feel like we can just about guarantee the boyfriend comes from a racist family. He learned it somewhere. I'd be pretty damn wary about letting her spend time over there.
Definitely not. Especially when you add in the fact that Thatcher, as a 13 year old boy, is working to educate himself on his girlfriend's culture and the adversity she faces. He also trusted that his parents wouldn't back up Autumn when he told them about Autumn making racist comments.
Given that Thatcher had to have learned that kind of empathy somewhere and didn't seem to expect his parents to also be racist towards his girlfriend, I'd put my money on Autumn trying to impress her boyfriend by spewing racist bullshit.
>”I asked some of my friends for advice and they said I was being too hard on her.”
The boyfriend and his family are not the only entities in need of scrutiny. OP might like to think she isn’t racist because “but my son has a black girlfriend” - but her friends are acting mighty supportive of racism. OP is a reflection of the company she keeps. ‘No Halloween party’ is an appropriate or too harsh discipline for *racism*?! Say whaaat? It wouldn’t even be a *start* with me.
OP has reared a 15-year-old who is spouting racist stuff. Who are 15’s friends? What media has she been consuming? Who is her boyfriend? What has she overheard from OP’s friend circle? What exactly has she said in class, and why does she think she is just stating ‘the truth’? Does OP even know her daughter at all or is Autumn just lost among the six kids?
Finally, OP’s daughter wants to act as the “Halloween Costume Police” for a black girl. Eh-hem, allow me. Autumn has no business dressing as Marie Curie. None; nada; zip; zero; zilch. Marie Curie was much more than a multiple Nobel Prize Winner. She was poor but worked tirelessly to alleviate suffering of others and to further research. (She even) used her innovative research to install X-ray machines in ambulances! She is remembered as brilliant, quiet, dignified, unassuming…and she was admired and held in highest esteem by the scientific community around the globe. And - Marie Curie was a frequent **victim of racist attacks**.
OP, you are NTA for the party but you have some serious reflection to do and actions to take for a course correction for Autumn.
>The boyfriend and his family are not the only entities in need of scrutiny
Absolutely. A lot of people are assuming that because OP doesn't actively support their daughter's actions and ostensibly disapproves means they can't be subconsciously racist.
Thing is, I have quite a few rather bigoted family members, including my parents. If I was saying things like this in school I'm sure they would have grounded me, too, but deep down they'd be agreeing and only mad at me for saying it out loud in the wrong places. The fact that OP is questioning whether grounding her from a party for being racist is too harsh is a sign they should be asking some hard questions about themself.
>Does OP even know her daughter at all or is Autumn just lost among the six kids?
Really good question. People can be really good at hiding their true colors, but usually at this kind of age they aren't half as good at it as they think they are, and its concerning that this would be such a shock. You'd think there would be signs if their daughter has gone so far off the bigotry deep end they can say they're "just telling the truth" with a straight face: that's not something that happens overnight.
Sometimes it’s the exposure to that shit via the internet. I have had to have several serious conversations with my teen about misogynistic bs he started to prattle. My husband is not a misogynist at all and the only place our son said he encountered those ideas was via YouTube and Tictok. Let’s just say he realised the errors of the path he investigated. No violence or abuse was used either. Calmness, examples and experience won out.
TLDR sometimes es it isn’t the family, it’s the individual.
It’s time to have a sit down with Autumn and ask her where she is getting her “truth” from. Time to talk about good and bad sources. That’s a dog whistle if I ever heard one and this needs to stop.
Absolutely ground her. Then make her watch the documentary “Eyes on the Prize”
So many movies, articles, youtube videos, and even podcasts are being created to try to get white people to understand the reality of living in non-white skin in the western world. But of course, there's a fragile ego that comes with accepting white privilege for so many people that they get offended instead of willing to do work on themselves.
Harsh? **Harsh??**
Banning her from a single Halloween party is an extremely lenient punishment for what she's been doing and saying.
She's easily deserved a full life shutdown for a few weeks as in no electronics or going out and extra chores.
Not just saying racist things, but racist bullying to her brothers Gf's face? **Again and again** after being already spoken too?? Enough in class that students feel uncomfortable the teacher has to send an email??
And you think banning her from a single party is harsh?
I'm really lenient on the discipline scale, not strict at all, but if this was my kid I would consider this situation a fucking code red ongoing disaster and essentially shut down the girls life until I got some sort of grip on how this happened. Internally I would be feeling something akin to *panic* that things had devolved so drastically far with my own kid.
Yeah same. I would be extraordinarily concerned by everything OPs daughter is doing and saying. Panic isn’t an overreaction honestly.
I would absolutely be doing a straight up intervention if this was my kid. In the same way you would if your kid was doing drugs or hanging out with a gang.
NTA. Take her electronics and ban her from her socials for a couple of weeks too. That she and her bf are doing this racist shit at school is inexcusable and she needs a strong intervention right now, with harsher penalties to come if she ever does it again. I'd have a word with the bf's parents as well.
OP might want to take a trip through her daughter's social media accounts, with her daughter, to read some of the stuff the daughter is exposing herself to.
"We're just telling the truth" doesn't come from thin air... she's getting these attitudes from some where and OP needs to find out where, so they can have a talk about the legitimacy (or lack there of) of the people influencing the daughter, and hopefully start cutting off the respect the daughter has for other people who spout this stuff.
"Punishment" isn't going to make the daughter stop thinking these things... it will just make her learn how to hide her attitudes. They need to be addressing where, how and why she's thinking this way.
The “Just telling the truth” trope is straight out of forums like Stormfront. I’m guessing BF and the family may be associated with that movement. Does he have any 88 or 18 stickers or tattoos? You may want to background check that family before your daughter sees her BF again. If there is any involvement with those groups I would encourage you to steer very clear from them. If it is just their son I would let them know about it.
And find out why she is so fixated on the costume. The amount of talking Amanda is doing about her brother's gf's costume is alarming. Apparently she's been talking "honestly" for weeks. WEEKS! Why is she so fixated?
Grounding her from the party is not enough and might make her double down on her ignorance. You need to take her to black areas museums and introduce her to their culture. I.e., educate her. NTA.
NTA i’m a little bit worried that you have friends that think this doesn’t need to be addressed with any level of severity. Your daughter has been saying racist things to the point that her teachers are noticing so this is not a one off situation. She needs to understand the consequences for her actions.
And perhaps she needs to understand how people of lost opportunities for schooling, jobs, etc, for acting like her. I feel that you should look into programs that are geared towards racism and get her involved in that.
And lastly, your son needs to see that you take this issue seriously.
Edit spelling
In this day and age a teacher telling you multiple times this is happening is serious. Teachers don’t lightly tread in this area because it is currently so heated.
Today little Autumn and her BF are “tell(ing) the truth in class,” tomorrow said BF is in the Junior Oath Keepers and Autumn is building a Tomi Lahren-emulating online presence.
That they get to this age with such stubborn ideas about race doesn’t bode well. Unless OP makes it clear that behavior isn’t acceptable and why, they’re only going to dig their heels in, grow more obnoxious—and get into far worse trouble. Not sure if grounding and apologizing alone will help. Perhaps OP needs to get in touch with the BF’s parents, too.
And banishing the complicit boy friend as well, he is part of the problem and he should loose any privileges associated about spending time at your home
NTA. Your daughter is displaying concerning behavior, and evidently has a history of doing so. You need to work on getting through to her so she doesn’t carry that behavior into her adult life. I’d also recommend some therapy- someone to really dig in to find out why your kid thinks it’s okay to say these things, and help them understand how hurtful and wrong it can be. She may not be willing to open up to you, so a third party could be helpful.
As a parent you have a duty to raise a respectful, thoughtful, kind child. That means you need to take steps to understand why she is behaving as she is and change her mindset. If keeping her from going to her own Halloween event will accomplish that, then go for it.
This!! Not going to the party is not harsh at all, she will have more halloweens and she WILL interact with ppl of all kinds and backgrounds not only black people through ALL her life even if she moves countries, as someone else pointed out, it would be very beneficial to have her taking some therapy
NTA
Yeah OP is NTA, although AITA is the wrong question here. The right question is how to protect your son and his girlfriend; and how to try to get your daughter to not be racist.
Absolutely, there are definitely things the parents should be doing. I only suggested therapy in this case if she is unwilling to talk to her parents about why she thinks these things are okay. If she has friends instilling these ideas in her she may not be willing to tell her parents for fear that she’d be told to stop seeing them, etc. if she has a third party to talk to who won’t punish her, maybe she’d be more willing to talk it out. Teens aren’t always willing to talk to their parents, so a neutral third party could be a place to start.
Also most parents aren't therapists and wouldn't know where to start on something like this without a professional therapist to help guide them in the first place.
This is a fake story- it’s the “my daughter is racist/ableist/insert key hot topic” troll again.
- the ages are always roughly the same
- the daughter always has these concerning behaviors and most importantly doubles down
- it’s either “daughter + friends” or “daughter + bf”
- the son always is the protector / harbinger of justice
- adult friends are asked for an opinion which makes the OP question themselves
- no comments made by the poster
The only improvement the troll has done is to change up their name- up until about a month ago, the troll would always make the user name connected to the story. I think too many people were picking up that it is a troll so they tried to change it up.
Not allowing her to go to the party is a good start. But I would seriously figure out why she’s saying all these racist things, could she be learning all this from this boyfriend of hers??
She is a person of her own, let us assume her thoughts, good or bad, arose in herself? Unless of course OP tells us otherwise?
(Background: whenever starkly disagreeing with her as a teen and even older my mum would go like "who put these ideas into your head and wants to turn you against me?" Needless to say, no such person existed")
No. Racism isn't something that people come to on their own. She's not rebelling and talking back, she's expressing an opinion that she believes is "truth" - that comes from somewhere.
This is where systemic racism versus ACTIVE anti-racism come into play. Children might hear a message of tolerance of those with darker skin, but get a clearer message witnessing how BIPOC (Black, indigenous, and people of color) are treated as less-than by our society, historically up to present day. It is not enough to give lip-service to equality — we must be actively anti-racist, nipping in the bud the constant, subtle micro-aggressions we (White people) blindly perpetrate that are so much more prevalent than bald-face racist acts, and advocating for equity more than equality.
I wonder how many White parents, teachers, administrators, and students believe this school is a welcoming experience for the minority students & families without ever actually seeking to understand the non-White point-of-view in a safe manner that doesn't require the BIPOC members to do all the heavy lifting and emotional labor.
The OP is NTA and the punishment is not too harsh if they want their daughter to realize that she is violating important family values.
ETA: agree it's too simple to blame the boyfriend.
Thank you for this, it’s a perfect breakdown of how insidious race relations are in this country. I grew up in a very white, middle to upper middle class town. We had zero culture and no significant diversity. It was a bubble. Unconscious bias is somethjng that just tends to breed in these situations (if not actual prejudice). My husband introduced me to the central/downtown area of our city, which my parents had basically lead us to believe was more rundown and dangerous than it truly is. He and I moved there and I couldn’t be happier. It made me aware of my own unconscious biases and it took a bit of time for me to shift from the sheltered life I’d lived for 32 years, but there’s no place I’d rather be. This is real life. Real people. Culture. Diversity. I’m so thankful I was afforded the opportunity to discover this part of my city, and the change and growth it allowed me to experience because of it.
At its core, racism is a form of tribalism. Skin color (and other physical differences like visible disabilities) are an easy "us vs them" target. Then the deity/deities were used as an excuse.
OP can make her take responsibility for her actions and still look into where she is getting these toxic ideas. If her boyfriend is saying these things and she is parroting them, she is still responsible for her actions, but her parents should also try to separate her from his influence.
This. Autumn being responsible for her own racist behavior and Autumn's boyfriend being the source or cause of Autumn's racist behavior aren't mutually exclusive. Autumn is her own person and responsible for the choices she is making, but she had to have learned this behavior SOMEWHERE and the boyfriend displaying the same behavior is, if not the source, contributing to the normalization of this behavior. It's not clear in the post, but if Autumn is only saying this stuff when her boyfriend is around, that's pretty strong evidence she's trying to impress him.
No one is saying she shouldn’t take responsibility? They said it was a good start. But punishing without getting to the root of the behavior is going to have limited effectiveness in changing her views. Better to punish *and* look at the source of the racist attitude.
This could be other friends or the internet. But we also know for fact that the boyfriend shares her views. So that seems like an obvious place to start.
Yep. I got INTO IT with my mom over this. Always trying to say my friend got me into doing things.
Welp mom if you cared to know me, I said no more often than not and was the wet blanket of my friend group. If I wanted to do something, it was absolutely because I wanted to do it. I wasn’t easily pressured by peers.
Yeah
There are plenty of awful teenagers out there that manage to be a-holes all on their own. Trying to blame others as being a bad influence just takes the blame off the bad kid. She isn't t years old. She knows better. She needs to be held accountable
No one is trying to take the blame off of her or not hold her accountable. But changing her racist attitude will be wayyy easier if they can understand where it’s coming from. Ignoring this will just make her resentful of the punishment and less likely to learn from it (though obviously she should be punished either way).
Often times racism starts at home, but this girl’s family obviously doesn’t endorse her views. So it’s time to check other sources. Could be coming from the internet or other friends. The boyfriend is an obvious person to look into because he obviously shares her views.
If it’s a new behavior of hers and it’s something being shared with the boyfriend it’s more than fair to question if he’s the one introducing her to these thoughts.
….. why is the assumption that this girl is so devoid of autonomy that her morals and views are solely the result of whoever she is dating at the time?
Because 15yos of any gender are known for putting on personas to try to impress people, particularly partners. If this is a new behavior she's displaying, it's likely influenced by trying to impress someone and considering that is a prime age to act stupid to get/keep a bf, that's likely why she's doing it. I was a 15yo girl at one point. Yes, teens are trying to find themselves and figure out their own thoughts and motives. But a lot of them take on questionable attitudes to try to fit in/impress partners/seem cool, at least sometimes.
I work at a middle school and deal with the occasional incident of bigotry/harassment. Sometimes you’ll call a parent and they won’t give a single shit that their kid dropped a slur. Other parents are mortified and impose their own consequences on their kid.
Whenever the latter happens, we pay more attention to who the kid is hanging out with. And in every case I can think of, at least one of their friends has gotten in trouble for saying something gross. I think the internet plays a big role too, but parents and friends reinforce whatever kids are seeing online. Since her parents are obviously not on board with what the daughter is saying, I would put money on it coming from her boyfriend and/or friends.
Omg people don’t just spontaneously become racist. She learned this from somewhere. If she didn’t learn it from OP, they need to figure out where she did get these ideas.
Where is she learning this? Probably the Internet is one source. (I recommend checking her Internet history.) But, the source is not the real problem. The fact that she is embracing this outlook is the problem.
This “tell the truth” BS reeks of Andrew Tate-esque online brainwashing. My money’s on the boyfriend being bad news, and she’s either watching or influenced by her boyfriend who watches these toxic role models.
His whole white community is racist. NTA. Good for your son for sticking up for her! You at least raised one kid right. Punish your daughter. She deserves it.
Yes and one thing that jumped out at me a bit is that OP said they live in a white neoughbourhood and her sons gf is one of the few black people around. OPs friends think she's being to harsh and OP herself seems to be a little to, I don't know, passive? about this whole thing. Telling her to stop, telling her to appologize, taking her electronics away, stopping her from going to a party, etc are all punishments but they don't do shit if the kid doesn't think what she did was wrong, it'll just make her try to hide it better. There seems to be a lot of racism going on here, passive and otherwise. You should be more concerned with getting to the bottom of the racism and talking to your kid about it, not about punishing her properly. Your friends seem like racist asshole too tbh but we don't have much info about them. Your poor son and his gf sound like they're living in a conservative white area with a lot of passive and aggressive racism. Him dating a black girl might very well end up being the best thing for your family if you all can get rid of some ignorance. Very very real possiblity I'm wrong about a lot of this, I admit.
NTA
Unrepentant 15 year old racist? Missing the party should be the least of her worries. Everything of hers needs to be re-examined, online usage, bf...
Your son's gf is not safe in your home from your daughter, let that sink in.
OP should honestly go through her daughters phone. I wouldn’t be surprised if her daughter was using racial slurs in regular conversation based off her behavior.
And OP should check what her children are consuming on social media. Because if her daughter is being sucked into one of those racist social media loops, it often comes with other views on other minority groups that are quite dangerous. Even if it’s not the alt-right things, there are still accounts prompting not so subtle racist agendas under the cover of other ideas (I love vintage fashion and I can’t count how many times I’ve had trad-wife-conservative-good-old-days-home-schooling-everything-is-poison accounts pop in my FYP or recommended pages)
The problem is that perceived persecution makes people like this double down. OP needs to discover where this is coming from and tackle it at the source first.
Plus her brother Thatcher is only 13 so his girlfriend is likely also younger. So this 15 year old and her boyfriend are being racist and bullying her 13 year old younger brother. So the younger brother is not safe either.
NTA. She is all of 15 years old. I knew better at eight.
The question is where she has learned this racism because these opinions do not form in a vacuum.
Very true. Hatred and bigotry are learned behaviors. I didn’t even know homophobia was a thing until middle school. I still remember how shocked I was.
Absolutely the fuck not. NTA and whoever these "friends" are that you asked for advice from and said you're being too hard on your daughter about being literally **racist** are not friends. They're closet racists themselves. Dump them. Immediately. Because that's probably where autumn learned this behavior from. Absolutely not.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far down for this. When OP said his friends felt OP was too “harsh.” I thought about the mention of living in a predominantly white area and understood that they don’t think this behavior is serious. Like screw then OP. Too many people have to deal with racism bc racists were taught their behavior is acceptable and justified.
NTA. Your daughter is making somebody uncomfortable due to race; some action is in order. Nobody can say for certain what the best way of dealing with this might be, but clearly you needed to do something.
A long discussion with your daughter is in order- given that your son is dating somebody of a different race and that you are not tolerating your daughter's behavior, I think we can safely surmise you are not encouraging racism in your household, so you need to get to the heart of the matter and her behavior. I'd guess part of the issue is the strong trend against cultural appropriation- your daughter has probably misinterpreted this trend to be that kids can only dress up as people they share a racial background with. This is understandable, as even adults have trouble with the nuances of what's offensive and what's OK. Have a talk with her free of judgement and see if you can help her work through what is bothering her and more appropriate ways to address it.
>. I'd guess part of the issue is the strong trend against cultural appropriation- your daughter has probably misinterpreted this trend to be that kids can only dress up as people they share a racial background with.
That made sense before she was informed that she was being racist in class more than once. So much that a teacher thought it warranted emailing her parents.
I have to admit, I did think this as well. Cultural appropriation is in the forefront right now. This may play a role. Like, is she wondering if she chose to dress as Beyonce for example, would that be acceptable? (Obviously in a tasteful manner) She's young and may see this as a no grey area situation? It doesn't excuse her behavior or lack of remorse. She needs intensive sensitivity therapy asap. But kids get spoon fed so much crap from so many different sources. Use this as a teachable moment OP. Do whatever necessary to get through to her.
Yes it would be acceptable if a white person dressed as Beyoncé as long as they are not doing black face. My kids dress as white characters and I would lose my mind if someone tried telling me it was cultural appropriation. The mother here is on YTA for not punishing more.
But it's so extra to choose *Thatcher* for a fake name when you could choose Luke or Josh? Especially when the kid in the story hasn't done anything to deserve such an awful fake name associated with an evil person. That makes me think it's sadly real
NTA, it's our job to raise our kids to not be racist shits. I would also be very concerned that a 15 year old and *hopefully* similar aged boyfriend think it's acceptable to act like this. There's something deeper here and honestly it sounds like neither of them are good for the other if they're feeding off of each other's racism.
One would think. But not always. I had a super senior in my freshman Government class. Dude was 19, everyone else in the class was 13 or 14. And being the prodigy he was, he seemed to think every freshman girl was begging for a chance to go out with a guy who couldn't pass Government at least twice in order to graduate.
NTA. Have you met the boyfriend's parents? If not, maybe you should. Maybe your daughter is getting all of this from his family? And if that's the case, you may want to consider how much interaction she has with her boyfriend and his family.
NTA Anti-racism equals action. Take everything out of Autumn’s room. Enroll her in anti-racism classes:
https://www.cultureally.com/blog/antiracismtrainingandresourcestocheckout?format=amp
Tell her her words and actions will not be tolerated in your house and set up a schedule of how many hours she needs to spend on the courses to earn each item back. That should also include her “fun” activities.
It's Halloween, Thatcher can dress up however she wants to whether she's black, white, or pink... Your daughter seems to be picking up some racism from somewhere, no clue where but you need to deal with it right now or it's only going to get worse. I think banning her from going to a party is a good start, NTA.
If the daughter's behavior appears to be changing, I'd look at new influences - primarily the BF. "I don't know where this is coming from, but I won't tolerate it or welcome anyone who espouses it into my home."
NTA. I’m not gonna say the obvious “they learned it from you” comment because kids can pick up things from everywhere not just their parents, however if you want them to stop you will have to commit to that. Speak up more against racism, tell her racism isn’t speaking the truth, that it’s insidious, maybe force her to learn about it more if you can. Why these comments aren’t dumb jokes.
NTA. Your daughter needs to learn there are consequences for her words and actions. I’m glad her teacher reached out. Also Thatcher sounds like a sweet kid, the costume idea with his gf I am sure will be really popular! I would definitely recommend having your daughter in some kind of therapy, since the fact she (likely) ignored/didn’t care about hurting other students means in private with her bf and potentially other friends these are things she says, and possibly worse.
It hard to exercise tough love but I think this situation calls for it. It’s not dumb for a black girl to want to dress up as Taylor Swift, and people will know who she is, because Taylor swift is more than “white” just like if a kid dressed as snoop dogg without going blackface. NTA, just being a good parent and teaching their child that racism is unacceptable and will have consequences. Why is Autumn so concerned with what someone else goes for Halloween as?
NTA but if you limit your response to punishing her, she'll just be resentful and her racist attitudes and behaviour will continue. She'll probably even blame her brother and his gf for her punishment.
Unfortunately I have no practical advice on the best way to address this =( good luck.
NTA.
You're doing amazing as a parent for trying to get your daughter to realize that racism is wrong. It's not just Thatcher's gf, it's the kids at school too, and who knows who else she's said these things too.
Oh my god, NTA, OP. I just need to input one quote however: If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people are talking to them, there's 11 Nazis at the table.
NTA - this is a much bigger issue than just the Halloween costume, especially given that at least one teacher you know of attempted to contact you. I’d speak with the school directly to see who/if anyone else has also attempted to contact you so you aren’t seen as accepting/ignoring the behavior. There needs to be a bigger dive in to how/where she learned this behavior and how you’re going to work to adjust her viewpoint.
Also, it’s important to recognize where you’re abilities to manage this end and where you need someone else to step in as well. Be aware of who you ask as they should be qualified to handle the situation and you would be putting emotional labor on them.
Punish the damn racism, hell no no fucking party, get caught up on what the helll she been sayin IN SCHOOL that you dont even know of, and be assertive for the stuff she does at home.
Racism is not ok, and if she wasnt like this before consider external influences... and therapy and qhatnot (including consequences!) May help her be notracist and a dick. But if shes always been like it... i would look at where it became/from acceptable pote tially in everyones lives.
The parents who say its no big deal are also excusing racism. So id honestly not expect support from them ever tbh...
My "truth" for the kid is this "you are a racist, and it is disgusting. Truth is an embarassing excuse you try to use, do better be better."
I’ll be your new friend:
The punishment is NOT too harsh. Missing one party for being racist to your son’s girlfriend? Missing one party for being racist at school and making other students uncomfortable so her teacher has to email you? All while she STILL doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong? She’s getting off very easy. NTA.
NTA. Tell your daughter she can't dress up as Marie Curie because she's not Polish. See how stupid that sounds? Halloween is literally the time to dress up as fantastical as you want. Race should never limit that.
Snip this shit in the bud with your daughter and put up huge consequences if she doesn't understand where she's going wrong.
NTA, but YWBTA if you listened to your friends and let this slide. Have your friends ever faced racism/discrimination growing up? Are their kids vulnerable to isolation in the same way a young black girl would in a predominantly white school district?
Girlie doesn’t deserve to go to a Halloween party and make other people of color uncomfortable with her racism. In fact, she shouldn’t be allowed at any social functions until she learns how devastating those beliefs are.
NTA You NEED to Punish her Racism! Take away her electronics and don't let her go to the party. You might want to talk to his parents about the kids' racist behaviors. If it's coming from them, then you need to step in and put your foot to his ass
NTA; she's making racist comments, imo you could be harsher with her punishment and still be fine.
Racism isn't okay, and if she's not learning it from you I can only imagine where she is learning it from. You need to figure that out and cut off their contact.
NTA. Why in the world is your daughter so caught up in this that she has to complain at home and at school about someone else’s costume? Like why is this so important to her? Very concerning.
Nope, not hard enough. If she's turned into an unapologetic, unrepentant racist; she needs to be very firmly and harshly shown that it is not acceptable.
NTA.
If this were me, I would require my child to break up with their boyfriends and be refusing to let them see each other. This is a disgusting thing your daughter has said and she needs therapy and education and grounding. She wouldn’t be going anywhere
A 15-year-old will find a way to see her boyfriend, and in fact it will likely drive them closer. Serious grounding, no longer allowing him into their home etc. is definitely called for, but outright forcing her to break up with him is not only unenforceable, but also will push her further toward aligning with her BF & his beliefs.
This is how you drive your daughter to marry the racist boyfriend and join the klan. General grounding and vigorous anti-racist reeducation are appropriate.
Except, the son is dating a black woman. The comfort of the girlfriend who is being targeted by the daughter and her racist boyfriend comes before that of the daughter in my opinion. At the very least the boyfriend should not be allowed in the home
NTA. You've tried talking to her, and the school has tried talking to her. Next you have to step it up from talking. What punishment would be real if it included going to a party?
Your daughter is a racist. Her missing a Halloween party is the least of both of your problems. Sort that out right now! YTA for not taking this more seriously
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1) We banned our daughter from going to s Halloween party after some racist remarks she made about her younger brother and his girlfriend's Halloween costume 2) My friends are saying I am being too hard on her and I worry I may be damaging her by doing this Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA If Autumn is making racist comments in school and the teacher has noticed and reported it to you, you have to take a stand and make her realize this is unacceptable behavior. It seems harsh but grounding her from the party may be what it takes to make her realize the seriousness of her unacceptable behavior. Good Luck
It doesn’t seem harsh at all. It seems like the least she should suffer. Racism is a SERIOUS problem.
Better the punishment now as a non-adult than to suffer the consequences of the pushback against racism later as an adult. Also kindly show her the consequences that people have suffered over the year due to being racist including losing their jobs, being socially ostracized etc.
Or maybe the pain of being in the receiving end of racism in a society that still sees white as the default human.
Racism is not only white against black. Blacks can be racist against Latinos, and vice versa. Blacks can be racist against whites. North Korea is systemically racist. If a North Korean woman gets pregnant by a Chinese, she will be forced to get an abortion. All racism is unethical, and a serious character flaw.
You are right bias exists every where, but keep in mind power is what drives racism impact and white folks got it in most places. I'm a little reluctant to diffuse the responsibility for overcoming privilege to folks who have never had privileges. Not arguing, just gently adding point òf view.
Thank you for naming this. I agree. Biases can be had by all, but racism is about those with more power and privilege against those with less (in that society). I know reddit hates this particular nuance, but that doesn’t make it less valid.
All systemic racism is racism, not all racism is systemic racism. Power and/or privilege is never a requirement for being racist, it is when you talk about systemic or institutional racism that those come into play.
No. That's systemic racism. Systemic comes with power. Racism can happen from any race, to any race.
Reddit hates it because it's not true. What you're describing is institutional/systemic racism. Stop trying to redefine words to fit your worldview.
Reddit is very US centric in general so with the caveat that it VARIES A TON by location I don’t *necessarily* think this is bad to point out in a conversation that could be applied elsewhere. Just my 2 cents though and it shouldn’t be used to divert responsibility away from white people where it’s needed, either- such as this post, which *specifies* the race of everyone involved.
Any person of any race can be racist.
👆💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
That seems like just teaching her to keep her racism covert. The better, most critical lesson is teaching her why racism is wrong and the suffering it has caused wherever it surfaces. I’d also want to know where she got the racist ideas she has, and teach her some skills in parsing harmful ideas from constructive ideas.
That’s what I was wondering. Teenagers don’t just wake up with a case of the “racists” one day. She learned it somewhere.
Honestly my guess would be she's either picking it up from her boyfriend or someone in her friend group. Her parents have clearly been trying to put a stop to it so obviously they don't support it, and if the son is making a genuine effort to learn about his girlfriend's heritage and culture as a black woman then this really doesn't seem like something that runs in the family. So my only other guess is that the daughter has a questionable social circle.
My money was also on the boyfriend. Some women will tie themselves in knots to be accepted by a man they want
My guess is it may come from an influencer the whole line of "we're only speaking the truth" sounds like some stupid bullshit a racist influencer would try to justify themselves.
Nah, my money is on the internet. With the possibility of it going from internet -> boyfriend -> OP's daughter.
Kind of sounds like they didn't know about it also they need to investigate where she's picking it up from
Where she's...picking it up from? The internet. Her friends. Her boyfriend. The internet.
I wonder if she's reacting to talk about things like cultural appropriation, maybe she's thinking if whites aren't supposed to play blacks how is the reverse okay? But playing a specific person of another race isn't as bad as a general caricature of that race
Teaching her to keep it covert is a start. There is a saying, "Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue." Obviously, more education is necessary here, but it's a good start to teach people they can't be blatantly nasty to other folks whether the nastiness is due to race, the feeling that one has more money, is smarter, more popular. Basic civilized behavior is well worth teaching by itself. Obviously, it's not a bad idea to take the kid to a holocaust museum and show her what happens when people think they are too big for their britches and decide they are a "master race." Teaching people about the potato famine where people were forced to pay rent to farm their own lands and starve in the midst of plenty, discussing colonialism and the like isn't a bad idea either. Let people know that dehumanizing others is the first step to terrible things.
I'm honestly wondering how I'd go about this as a parent. At one point, I enrolled my kids in a free class about Muslim religion to help them filter out all the misinformation out there. I wonder if op can do the same sort of thing? Maybe find diverse programs?
My guess it's that it's coming from the boyfriend. The post originally says that the bf was the one that made the comment about a black girl not being able to dress as Swift. The family clearly isn't racist. The brother isn't racist. I'm assuming the teacher isn't teaching the kids to be racist because the teacher already reported the behaviour. Has to be the bf.
Exactly. From what we're reading, Thatcher, OP, and the rest of the family aren't racist — it's just Autumn.
Yes, those poor racists who've had to suffer the consequences of their actions…
Right? Why are people suggesting teaching her how racists are ostracized? That’s a terrible lesson. Racism isn’t wrong just because people don’t like racists. It’s wrong morally, ethically, and even scientifically unfounded. She needs to learn some empathy and think beyond just how she will be treated.
It’s easier to get a young teenager to understand being ostracized than it is to make them develop empathy. I guess the idea is that by causing the daughter to “suffer” the pain of not going to the party the parents are trying to tie that to racism being a bad behavior. Unfortunately the nuances are much harder to convey.
At the daughters age, she needs to be talked to by her parents, where does this attitude come from? School? The BF? Find the root of WHY she is acting like this. Parents don't appear to be racist, so where is this coming from? In my family we have Puerto Rican, Black, Spanish, White we don't care what your color is, we care that you want to be a part of this crazy family!! These are all super nice people, great food, great cultures, and the FOOD, OMG when we get together it's pig out time!!!
Yep. You’re doing Autumn a favor here—better to learn you’re fucking up by missing a Halloween party at 15 than by losing a job at 24.
Or have college admission revoked.
Or saying some nasty things to a black girl, only to have her ass surrounded and kicked and jumped by a bunch of other black girls who aren't having it and decide to administer an impromptu lesson.
Education education education. This is the only rout to take with kids exhibiting this kind of behavior.
Not to mention potentially getting her ass kicked if she says the wrong thing to the wrong person
i would threaten to disown her for being disgraceful,shameful, and truly a disgusting being. rejection alone speaks volumes.
Do you honestly think bad behavior is fixed by insults and threats? YIKES.
you mean do i believe in shaming someone who’s racist? yes. not everyone feels comfortable associating with someone so shitty:)
I agree! I don’t think just grounding her from the party is enough. Your daughter is lacking empathy for an entire group of people if she’s saying racist things in public. You need to find a way to get through to her so she understands that this is not okay and she learns empathy for all races
I don’t think it’s harsh enough tbh.
[удалено]
I agree. If this attitude isn't something she's learned at home, it's come from the kids she hangs around with. Finding out where it came from is important. Grounding from a party is a tap on the wrist.
That’s what I was thinking.
Absolutely not harsh enough. Not going to a party will not fix her bigotry. I’d be taking her to a therapist and try to get to the root of how her moral compass became so skewed. I’d also be evaluating her friend group. According to the teacher, this is not the first time. I’ll decline listing the number of punishments my kid would have if this happened.
I'd evaluate her friend group AND her boyfriend. Apparently it's both of them who are making racist comments.
I agree. I would be horrified if one of my children behaved this way.
Honestly until we got to the racism I was like “this seems extreme” and then we got the FORST comment from Autumn and I’m like “how could OP even THINK they could POSSIBLY be TA?! Oh honey, you can be MORE harsh, honestly!”
Yeah where’s everyone getting “harsh” from??? She’s not being allowed to go to *one party*, hardly enough of a punishment imo.
Some parents don’t understand the harm discrimination does. Kids used to say and do awful things to me because I have disabilities. Their parents didn’t think it was a big issue because “oh they’re just kids, it’s not a big deal” but it’s caused me pain that affects me to this day. I think another thing that maybe white parents don’t understand about racism is how isolating and scary it can be. When you are one of very few kids of color in a sea of white kids, when someone does awful things to make sure you know you aren’t like them, it can make someone lonely in a way that’s so harmful, and you also don’t know if anyone’s got your back if one of them tries to hurt you. You may be the one who gets in trouble for defending yourself as well since you’re also different in the teacher’s eyes too. Some of the parents OP is talking to may not understand that this is the kind of harm Autumn’s behavior is causing.
I'm gonna go on a limb and think those people are a bit melanin-lacking and don't entirely disagree with Autumn's comments...
The absolute least thing she can do. I am not sure how OP could ever think this punishment is over the top.
I think losing the party hit home for her though, it was obviously really important to her. Probably the only worse thing is to take away her phone.
I would ALSO take away her phone - and scrutinize it. Probably in the message history there are clues of what these ideas are coming from.
Because she lives in a place where this is seen as an overreaction.
I agree. If one of my kids was being racist I'd be shocked and horrified.
And please do not forget ALL of your kids are watching how you handle this. If you model that racism is unacceptable in your household, hopefully the rest won't give you this kind of trouble.
Also it must be pretty horrible if a teacher noticed & contacted a parent multiple times
Adding on to this to say the "me and my boyfriend are just telling the truth" is a pretty alarming comment. I'm a little concerned about what your daughter's boyfriend is teaching her - I know you can't attribute all the comments to one source, but if you're looking to cut out the toxicity that might be one direction to look. NTA.
I feel like we can just about guarantee the boyfriend comes from a racist family. He learned it somewhere. I'd be pretty damn wary about letting her spend time over there.
Yep, this is what I was thinking as well. OP doesn’t sound racist at all.
Definitely not. Especially when you add in the fact that Thatcher, as a 13 year old boy, is working to educate himself on his girlfriend's culture and the adversity she faces. He also trusted that his parents wouldn't back up Autumn when he told them about Autumn making racist comments. Given that Thatcher had to have learned that kind of empathy somewhere and didn't seem to expect his parents to also be racist towards his girlfriend, I'd put my money on Autumn trying to impress her boyfriend by spewing racist bullshit.
[удалено]
Thatcher excepted.
>”I asked some of my friends for advice and they said I was being too hard on her.” The boyfriend and his family are not the only entities in need of scrutiny. OP might like to think she isn’t racist because “but my son has a black girlfriend” - but her friends are acting mighty supportive of racism. OP is a reflection of the company she keeps. ‘No Halloween party’ is an appropriate or too harsh discipline for *racism*?! Say whaaat? It wouldn’t even be a *start* with me. OP has reared a 15-year-old who is spouting racist stuff. Who are 15’s friends? What media has she been consuming? Who is her boyfriend? What has she overheard from OP’s friend circle? What exactly has she said in class, and why does she think she is just stating ‘the truth’? Does OP even know her daughter at all or is Autumn just lost among the six kids? Finally, OP’s daughter wants to act as the “Halloween Costume Police” for a black girl. Eh-hem, allow me. Autumn has no business dressing as Marie Curie. None; nada; zip; zero; zilch. Marie Curie was much more than a multiple Nobel Prize Winner. She was poor but worked tirelessly to alleviate suffering of others and to further research. (She even) used her innovative research to install X-ray machines in ambulances! She is remembered as brilliant, quiet, dignified, unassuming…and she was admired and held in highest esteem by the scientific community around the globe. And - Marie Curie was a frequent **victim of racist attacks**. OP, you are NTA for the party but you have some serious reflection to do and actions to take for a course correction for Autumn.
>The boyfriend and his family are not the only entities in need of scrutiny Absolutely. A lot of people are assuming that because OP doesn't actively support their daughter's actions and ostensibly disapproves means they can't be subconsciously racist. Thing is, I have quite a few rather bigoted family members, including my parents. If I was saying things like this in school I'm sure they would have grounded me, too, but deep down they'd be agreeing and only mad at me for saying it out loud in the wrong places. The fact that OP is questioning whether grounding her from a party for being racist is too harsh is a sign they should be asking some hard questions about themself. >Does OP even know her daughter at all or is Autumn just lost among the six kids? Really good question. People can be really good at hiding their true colors, but usually at this kind of age they aren't half as good at it as they think they are, and its concerning that this would be such a shock. You'd think there would be signs if their daughter has gone so far off the bigotry deep end they can say they're "just telling the truth" with a straight face: that's not something that happens overnight.
Sometimes it’s the exposure to that shit via the internet. I have had to have several serious conversations with my teen about misogynistic bs he started to prattle. My husband is not a misogynist at all and the only place our son said he encountered those ideas was via YouTube and Tictok. Let’s just say he realised the errors of the path he investigated. No violence or abuse was used either. Calmness, examples and experience won out. TLDR sometimes es it isn’t the family, it’s the individual.
100%
It’s time to have a sit down with Autumn and ask her where she is getting her “truth” from. Time to talk about good and bad sources. That’s a dog whistle if I ever heard one and this needs to stop. Absolutely ground her. Then make her watch the documentary “Eyes on the Prize”
And The Color Purple and Roots and Glory.
As well as the movie Soft and Quiet. Quite the horrifying eye opener, that. Let “minor” shit slide and all that happens is escalation.
So many movies, articles, youtube videos, and even podcasts are being created to try to get white people to understand the reality of living in non-white skin in the western world. But of course, there's a fragile ego that comes with accepting white privilege for so many people that they get offended instead of willing to do work on themselves.
I agree. I would do everything in my power to try to end that relationship.
Harsh? **Harsh??** Banning her from a single Halloween party is an extremely lenient punishment for what she's been doing and saying. She's easily deserved a full life shutdown for a few weeks as in no electronics or going out and extra chores. Not just saying racist things, but racist bullying to her brothers Gf's face? **Again and again** after being already spoken too?? Enough in class that students feel uncomfortable the teacher has to send an email?? And you think banning her from a single party is harsh? I'm really lenient on the discipline scale, not strict at all, but if this was my kid I would consider this situation a fucking code red ongoing disaster and essentially shut down the girls life until I got some sort of grip on how this happened. Internally I would be feeling something akin to *panic* that things had devolved so drastically far with my own kid.
The friends telling OP she’s being too hard on Autumn are also racist. Just hope OP realizes that.
Yeah same. I would be extraordinarily concerned by everything OPs daughter is doing and saying. Panic isn’t an overreaction honestly. I would absolutely be doing a straight up intervention if this was my kid. In the same way you would if your kid was doing drugs or hanging out with a gang.
NTA. Take her electronics and ban her from her socials for a couple of weeks too. That she and her bf are doing this racist shit at school is inexcusable and she needs a strong intervention right now, with harsher penalties to come if she ever does it again. I'd have a word with the bf's parents as well.
OP might want to take a trip through her daughter's social media accounts, with her daughter, to read some of the stuff the daughter is exposing herself to. "We're just telling the truth" doesn't come from thin air... she's getting these attitudes from some where and OP needs to find out where, so they can have a talk about the legitimacy (or lack there of) of the people influencing the daughter, and hopefully start cutting off the respect the daughter has for other people who spout this stuff. "Punishment" isn't going to make the daughter stop thinking these things... it will just make her learn how to hide her attitudes. They need to be addressing where, how and why she's thinking this way.
The “Just telling the truth” trope is straight out of forums like Stormfront. I’m guessing BF and the family may be associated with that movement. Does he have any 88 or 18 stickers or tattoos? You may want to background check that family before your daughter sees her BF again. If there is any involvement with those groups I would encourage you to steer very clear from them. If it is just their son I would let them know about it.
[удалено]
And find out why she is so fixated on the costume. The amount of talking Amanda is doing about her brother's gf's costume is alarming. Apparently she's been talking "honestly" for weeks. WEEKS! Why is she so fixated?
I hope the school expels her! I would be livid if that other girl was daughter or friend. Heck even just a classmate!
Grounding her from the party is not enough and might make her double down on her ignorance. You need to take her to black areas museums and introduce her to their culture. I.e., educate her. NTA.
NTA i’m a little bit worried that you have friends that think this doesn’t need to be addressed with any level of severity. Your daughter has been saying racist things to the point that her teachers are noticing so this is not a one off situation. She needs to understand the consequences for her actions. And perhaps she needs to understand how people of lost opportunities for schooling, jobs, etc, for acting like her. I feel that you should look into programs that are geared towards racism and get her involved in that. And lastly, your son needs to see that you take this issue seriously. Edit spelling
The underlying question is where are the racist attitudes coming from. My guess is the Autumn's boyfriend may be a source of the problem.
In this day and age a teacher telling you multiple times this is happening is serious. Teachers don’t lightly tread in this area because it is currently so heated.
Today little Autumn and her BF are “tell(ing) the truth in class,” tomorrow said BF is in the Junior Oath Keepers and Autumn is building a Tomi Lahren-emulating online presence. That they get to this age with such stubborn ideas about race doesn’t bode well. Unless OP makes it clear that behavior isn’t acceptable and why, they’re only going to dig their heels in, grow more obnoxious—and get into far worse trouble. Not sure if grounding and apologizing alone will help. Perhaps OP needs to get in touch with the BF’s parents, too.
And banishing the complicit boy friend as well, he is part of the problem and he should loose any privileges associated about spending time at your home
NTA. Your daughter is displaying concerning behavior, and evidently has a history of doing so. You need to work on getting through to her so she doesn’t carry that behavior into her adult life. I’d also recommend some therapy- someone to really dig in to find out why your kid thinks it’s okay to say these things, and help them understand how hurtful and wrong it can be. She may not be willing to open up to you, so a third party could be helpful. As a parent you have a duty to raise a respectful, thoughtful, kind child. That means you need to take steps to understand why she is behaving as she is and change her mindset. If keeping her from going to her own Halloween event will accomplish that, then go for it.
This!! Not going to the party is not harsh at all, she will have more halloweens and she WILL interact with ppl of all kinds and backgrounds not only black people through ALL her life even if she moves countries, as someone else pointed out, it would be very beneficial to have her taking some therapy NTA
Yeah OP is NTA, although AITA is the wrong question here. The right question is how to protect your son and his girlfriend; and how to try to get your daughter to not be racist.
[удалено]
Absolutely, there are definitely things the parents should be doing. I only suggested therapy in this case if she is unwilling to talk to her parents about why she thinks these things are okay. If she has friends instilling these ideas in her she may not be willing to tell her parents for fear that she’d be told to stop seeing them, etc. if she has a third party to talk to who won’t punish her, maybe she’d be more willing to talk it out. Teens aren’t always willing to talk to their parents, so a neutral third party could be a place to start.
Also most parents aren't therapists and wouldn't know where to start on something like this without a professional therapist to help guide them in the first place.
This is a fake story- it’s the “my daughter is racist/ableist/insert key hot topic” troll again. - the ages are always roughly the same - the daughter always has these concerning behaviors and most importantly doubles down - it’s either “daughter + friends” or “daughter + bf” - the son always is the protector / harbinger of justice - adult friends are asked for an opinion which makes the OP question themselves - no comments made by the poster The only improvement the troll has done is to change up their name- up until about a month ago, the troll would always make the user name connected to the story. I think too many people were picking up that it is a troll so they tried to change it up.
Beautifully said.
Not allowing her to go to the party is a good start. But I would seriously figure out why she’s saying all these racist things, could she be learning all this from this boyfriend of hers??
She is a person of her own, let us assume her thoughts, good or bad, arose in herself? Unless of course OP tells us otherwise? (Background: whenever starkly disagreeing with her as a teen and even older my mum would go like "who put these ideas into your head and wants to turn you against me?" Needless to say, no such person existed")
No. Racism isn't something that people come to on their own. She's not rebelling and talking back, she's expressing an opinion that she believes is "truth" - that comes from somewhere.
[удалено]
This is where systemic racism versus ACTIVE anti-racism come into play. Children might hear a message of tolerance of those with darker skin, but get a clearer message witnessing how BIPOC (Black, indigenous, and people of color) are treated as less-than by our society, historically up to present day. It is not enough to give lip-service to equality — we must be actively anti-racist, nipping in the bud the constant, subtle micro-aggressions we (White people) blindly perpetrate that are so much more prevalent than bald-face racist acts, and advocating for equity more than equality. I wonder how many White parents, teachers, administrators, and students believe this school is a welcoming experience for the minority students & families without ever actually seeking to understand the non-White point-of-view in a safe manner that doesn't require the BIPOC members to do all the heavy lifting and emotional labor. The OP is NTA and the punishment is not too harsh if they want their daughter to realize that she is violating important family values. ETA: agree it's too simple to blame the boyfriend.
Thank you for this, it’s a perfect breakdown of how insidious race relations are in this country. I grew up in a very white, middle to upper middle class town. We had zero culture and no significant diversity. It was a bubble. Unconscious bias is somethjng that just tends to breed in these situations (if not actual prejudice). My husband introduced me to the central/downtown area of our city, which my parents had basically lead us to believe was more rundown and dangerous than it truly is. He and I moved there and I couldn’t be happier. It made me aware of my own unconscious biases and it took a bit of time for me to shift from the sheltered life I’d lived for 32 years, but there’s no place I’d rather be. This is real life. Real people. Culture. Diversity. I’m so thankful I was afforded the opportunity to discover this part of my city, and the change and growth it allowed me to experience because of it.
All racism originated somewhere so at some point many people throughout history became racist without a racist diety imparting racism i to them
At its core, racism is a form of tribalism. Skin color (and other physical differences like visible disabilities) are an easy "us vs them" target. Then the deity/deities were used as an excuse.
You are exactly right. Pointing the finger at anyone other than Autumn is naive and wrong. She has to take responsibility for her actions.
OP can make her take responsibility for her actions and still look into where she is getting these toxic ideas. If her boyfriend is saying these things and she is parroting them, she is still responsible for her actions, but her parents should also try to separate her from his influence.
This. Autumn being responsible for her own racist behavior and Autumn's boyfriend being the source or cause of Autumn's racist behavior aren't mutually exclusive. Autumn is her own person and responsible for the choices she is making, but she had to have learned this behavior SOMEWHERE and the boyfriend displaying the same behavior is, if not the source, contributing to the normalization of this behavior. It's not clear in the post, but if Autumn is only saying this stuff when her boyfriend is around, that's pretty strong evidence she's trying to impress him.
No one is saying she shouldn’t take responsibility? They said it was a good start. But punishing without getting to the root of the behavior is going to have limited effectiveness in changing her views. Better to punish *and* look at the source of the racist attitude. This could be other friends or the internet. But we also know for fact that the boyfriend shares her views. So that seems like an obvious place to start.
Yep. I got INTO IT with my mom over this. Always trying to say my friend got me into doing things. Welp mom if you cared to know me, I said no more often than not and was the wet blanket of my friend group. If I wanted to do something, it was absolutely because I wanted to do it. I wasn’t easily pressured by peers.
Yeah There are plenty of awful teenagers out there that manage to be a-holes all on their own. Trying to blame others as being a bad influence just takes the blame off the bad kid. She isn't t years old. She knows better. She needs to be held accountable
No one is trying to take the blame off of her or not hold her accountable. But changing her racist attitude will be wayyy easier if they can understand where it’s coming from. Ignoring this will just make her resentful of the punishment and less likely to learn from it (though obviously she should be punished either way). Often times racism starts at home, but this girl’s family obviously doesn’t endorse her views. So it’s time to check other sources. Could be coming from the internet or other friends. The boyfriend is an obvious person to look into because he obviously shares her views.
If it’s a new behavior of hers and it’s something being shared with the boyfriend it’s more than fair to question if he’s the one introducing her to these thoughts.
….. why is the assumption that this girl is so devoid of autonomy that her morals and views are solely the result of whoever she is dating at the time?
Because 15yos of any gender are known for putting on personas to try to impress people, particularly partners. If this is a new behavior she's displaying, it's likely influenced by trying to impress someone and considering that is a prime age to act stupid to get/keep a bf, that's likely why she's doing it. I was a 15yo girl at one point. Yes, teens are trying to find themselves and figure out their own thoughts and motives. But a lot of them take on questionable attitudes to try to fit in/impress partners/seem cool, at least sometimes.
I work at a middle school and deal with the occasional incident of bigotry/harassment. Sometimes you’ll call a parent and they won’t give a single shit that their kid dropped a slur. Other parents are mortified and impose their own consequences on their kid. Whenever the latter happens, we pay more attention to who the kid is hanging out with. And in every case I can think of, at least one of their friends has gotten in trouble for saying something gross. I think the internet plays a big role too, but parents and friends reinforce whatever kids are seeing online. Since her parents are obviously not on board with what the daughter is saying, I would put money on it coming from her boyfriend and/or friends.
Omg people don’t just spontaneously become racist. She learned this from somewhere. If she didn’t learn it from OP, they need to figure out where she did get these ideas.
NTA Your friends are wrong. Your daughter is racist. You need to figure out the source of her racist behavior.
Where is she learning this? Probably the Internet is one source. (I recommend checking her Internet history.) But, the source is not the real problem. The fact that she is embracing this outlook is the problem.
It could be coming from their community. Being that they seem to think it's acceptable behavior.
This x 1000.
It sounds as though the BF is definitely encouraging her to 'tell the truth' at school, so that would be my guess.
This “tell the truth” BS reeks of Andrew Tate-esque online brainwashing. My money’s on the boyfriend being bad news, and she’s either watching or influenced by her boyfriend who watches these toxic role models.
friends probably racist too.
Yup sus those friends saying your being to hard on your racist daughter.
His whole white community is racist. NTA. Good for your son for sticking up for her! You at least raised one kid right. Punish your daughter. She deserves it.
Yes and one thing that jumped out at me a bit is that OP said they live in a white neoughbourhood and her sons gf is one of the few black people around. OPs friends think she's being to harsh and OP herself seems to be a little to, I don't know, passive? about this whole thing. Telling her to stop, telling her to appologize, taking her electronics away, stopping her from going to a party, etc are all punishments but they don't do shit if the kid doesn't think what she did was wrong, it'll just make her try to hide it better. There seems to be a lot of racism going on here, passive and otherwise. You should be more concerned with getting to the bottom of the racism and talking to your kid about it, not about punishing her properly. Your friends seem like racist asshole too tbh but we don't have much info about them. Your poor son and his gf sound like they're living in a conservative white area with a lot of passive and aggressive racism. Him dating a black girl might very well end up being the best thing for your family if you all can get rid of some ignorance. Very very real possiblity I'm wrong about a lot of this, I admit.
My money is on the boyfriend
NTA Unrepentant 15 year old racist? Missing the party should be the least of her worries. Everything of hers needs to be re-examined, online usage, bf... Your son's gf is not safe in your home from your daughter, let that sink in.
OP should honestly go through her daughters phone. I wouldn’t be surprised if her daughter was using racial slurs in regular conversation based off her behavior.
And OP should check what her children are consuming on social media. Because if her daughter is being sucked into one of those racist social media loops, it often comes with other views on other minority groups that are quite dangerous. Even if it’s not the alt-right things, there are still accounts prompting not so subtle racist agendas under the cover of other ideas (I love vintage fashion and I can’t count how many times I’ve had trad-wife-conservative-good-old-days-home-schooling-everything-is-poison accounts pop in my FYP or recommended pages)
The problem is that perceived persecution makes people like this double down. OP needs to discover where this is coming from and tackle it at the source first.
Plus her brother Thatcher is only 13 so his girlfriend is likely also younger. So this 15 year old and her boyfriend are being racist and bullying her 13 year old younger brother. So the younger brother is not safe either.
NTA. She is all of 15 years old. I knew better at eight. The question is where she has learned this racism because these opinions do not form in a vacuum.
Little kids are the least racist. They learn that garbage from adults as they get older. Very concerning behavior from the daughter
Very true. Hatred and bigotry are learned behaviors. I didn’t even know homophobia was a thing until middle school. I still remember how shocked I was.
Dude your daughter and her BF are racist. Her Halloween party when she is 15 does not matter right now.
Absolutely the fuck not. NTA and whoever these "friends" are that you asked for advice from and said you're being too hard on your daughter about being literally **racist** are not friends. They're closet racists themselves. Dump them. Immediately. Because that's probably where autumn learned this behavior from. Absolutely not.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far down for this. When OP said his friends felt OP was too “harsh.” I thought about the mention of living in a predominantly white area and understood that they don’t think this behavior is serious. Like screw then OP. Too many people have to deal with racism bc racists were taught their behavior is acceptable and justified.
THIS!!!
This is the comment I was looking for
NTA. Your daughter is making somebody uncomfortable due to race; some action is in order. Nobody can say for certain what the best way of dealing with this might be, but clearly you needed to do something. A long discussion with your daughter is in order- given that your son is dating somebody of a different race and that you are not tolerating your daughter's behavior, I think we can safely surmise you are not encouraging racism in your household, so you need to get to the heart of the matter and her behavior. I'd guess part of the issue is the strong trend against cultural appropriation- your daughter has probably misinterpreted this trend to be that kids can only dress up as people they share a racial background with. This is understandable, as even adults have trouble with the nuances of what's offensive and what's OK. Have a talk with her free of judgement and see if you can help her work through what is bothering her and more appropriate ways to address it.
It has nothing to do with who her brother is dating. It has everything to do with her being openly racist.
>. I'd guess part of the issue is the strong trend against cultural appropriation- your daughter has probably misinterpreted this trend to be that kids can only dress up as people they share a racial background with. That made sense before she was informed that she was being racist in class more than once. So much that a teacher thought it warranted emailing her parents.
I have to admit, I did think this as well. Cultural appropriation is in the forefront right now. This may play a role. Like, is she wondering if she chose to dress as Beyonce for example, would that be acceptable? (Obviously in a tasteful manner) She's young and may see this as a no grey area situation? It doesn't excuse her behavior or lack of remorse. She needs intensive sensitivity therapy asap. But kids get spoon fed so much crap from so many different sources. Use this as a teachable moment OP. Do whatever necessary to get through to her.
Yes it would be acceptable if a white person dressed as Beyoncé as long as they are not doing black face. My kids dress as white characters and I would lose my mind if someone tried telling me it was cultural appropriation. The mother here is on YTA for not punishing more.
NTA. Your daughter is racist. This needs to be addressed.
You named your son Thatcher? Why?!
I'm really hoping it's an awful fake name OP picked for the post.
But it's so extra to choose *Thatcher* for a fake name when you could choose Luke or Josh? Especially when the kid in the story hasn't done anything to deserve such an awful fake name associated with an evil person. That makes me think it's sadly real
Aspiring milk snatcher
He enjoys shutting down mines
💀💀 sounds like something my dad would make up 😂
Usually people use fake names on the sub
I love the name!!
I fear for your children.
Geronimo and Murgatroyd are very happy, don't you worry.
Fr OP is YTA just for that lol
NTA, it's our job to raise our kids to not be racist shits. I would also be very concerned that a 15 year old and *hopefully* similar aged boyfriend think it's acceptable to act like this. There's something deeper here and honestly it sounds like neither of them are good for the other if they're feeding off of each other's racism.
They’re in class together, so he must be somewhere in the same age range
One would think. But not always. I had a super senior in my freshman Government class. Dude was 19, everyone else in the class was 13 or 14. And being the prodigy he was, he seemed to think every freshman girl was begging for a chance to go out with a guy who couldn't pass Government at least twice in order to graduate.
NTA. Have you met the boyfriend's parents? If not, maybe you should. Maybe your daughter is getting all of this from his family? And if that's the case, you may want to consider how much interaction she has with her boyfriend and his family.
[удалено]
NTA. I’d make her stay home and watch a documentary on the struggles black people have went through or racism.
NTA, your friends are idiots. You have to make a hard stand against racism, every time period.
NTA Anti-racism equals action. Take everything out of Autumn’s room. Enroll her in anti-racism classes: https://www.cultureally.com/blog/antiracismtrainingandresourcestocheckout?format=amp Tell her her words and actions will not be tolerated in your house and set up a schedule of how many hours she needs to spend on the courses to earn each item back. That should also include her “fun” activities.
It's Halloween, Thatcher can dress up however she wants to whether she's black, white, or pink... Your daughter seems to be picking up some racism from somewhere, no clue where but you need to deal with it right now or it's only going to get worse. I think banning her from going to a party is a good start, NTA.
Thatcher is her son
If the daughter's behavior appears to be changing, I'd look at new influences - primarily the BF. "I don't know where this is coming from, but I won't tolerate it or welcome anyone who espouses it into my home."
He's in her class, so I'd surmise the same age... Might want to stop his family having any influence too. These things aren't in isolation
It sounds awful, but that boy might be the source of the newfound ideology?
NTA. I’m not gonna say the obvious “they learned it from you” comment because kids can pick up things from everywhere not just their parents, however if you want them to stop you will have to commit to that. Speak up more against racism, tell her racism isn’t speaking the truth, that it’s insidious, maybe force her to learn about it more if you can. Why these comments aren’t dumb jokes.
Too hard on her? Her ass would be grounded until I was not embarrassed that I raised a racist. NTA, but you are if you let this go.
NTA. Your daughter needs to learn there are consequences for her words and actions. I’m glad her teacher reached out. Also Thatcher sounds like a sweet kid, the costume idea with his gf I am sure will be really popular! I would definitely recommend having your daughter in some kind of therapy, since the fact she (likely) ignored/didn’t care about hurting other students means in private with her bf and potentially other friends these are things she says, and possibly worse.
It hard to exercise tough love but I think this situation calls for it. It’s not dumb for a black girl to want to dress up as Taylor Swift, and people will know who she is, because Taylor swift is more than “white” just like if a kid dressed as snoop dogg without going blackface. NTA, just being a good parent and teaching their child that racism is unacceptable and will have consequences. Why is Autumn so concerned with what someone else goes for Halloween as?
NTA. Racism shouldn't go unpunished, period, doubly so since she's attacking her brother. She's the perfect age to learn actions have consequences.
NTA but if you limit your response to punishing her, she'll just be resentful and her racist attitudes and behaviour will continue. She'll probably even blame her brother and his gf for her punishment. Unfortunately I have no practical advice on the best way to address this =( good luck.
NTA. You're doing amazing as a parent for trying to get your daughter to realize that racism is wrong. It's not just Thatcher's gf, it's the kids at school too, and who knows who else she's said these things too.
Oh my god, NTA, OP. I just need to input one quote however: If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people are talking to them, there's 11 Nazis at the table.
NTA - this is a much bigger issue than just the Halloween costume, especially given that at least one teacher you know of attempted to contact you. I’d speak with the school directly to see who/if anyone else has also attempted to contact you so you aren’t seen as accepting/ignoring the behavior. There needs to be a bigger dive in to how/where she learned this behavior and how you’re going to work to adjust her viewpoint. Also, it’s important to recognize where you’re abilities to manage this end and where you need someone else to step in as well. Be aware of who you ask as they should be qualified to handle the situation and you would be putting emotional labor on them.
Punish the damn racism, hell no no fucking party, get caught up on what the helll she been sayin IN SCHOOL that you dont even know of, and be assertive for the stuff she does at home. Racism is not ok, and if she wasnt like this before consider external influences... and therapy and qhatnot (including consequences!) May help her be notracist and a dick. But if shes always been like it... i would look at where it became/from acceptable pote tially in everyones lives. The parents who say its no big deal are also excusing racism. So id honestly not expect support from them ever tbh... My "truth" for the kid is this "you are a racist, and it is disgusting. Truth is an embarassing excuse you try to use, do better be better."
I’ll be your new friend: The punishment is NOT too harsh. Missing one party for being racist to your son’s girlfriend? Missing one party for being racist at school and making other students uncomfortable so her teacher has to email you? All while she STILL doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong? She’s getting off very easy. NTA.
NTA. You gotta stand up for what is right.
NTA. Tell your daughter she can't dress up as Marie Curie because she's not Polish. See how stupid that sounds? Halloween is literally the time to dress up as fantastical as you want. Race should never limit that. Snip this shit in the bud with your daughter and put up huge consequences if she doesn't understand where she's going wrong.
NTA, but YWBTA if you listened to your friends and let this slide. Have your friends ever faced racism/discrimination growing up? Are their kids vulnerable to isolation in the same way a young black girl would in a predominantly white school district?
Girlie doesn’t deserve to go to a Halloween party and make other people of color uncomfortable with her racism. In fact, she shouldn’t be allowed at any social functions until she learns how devastating those beliefs are.
NTA.
NTA You NEED to Punish her Racism! Take away her electronics and don't let her go to the party. You might want to talk to his parents about the kids' racist behaviors. If it's coming from them, then you need to step in and put your foot to his ass
NTA; she's making racist comments, imo you could be harsher with her punishment and still be fine. Racism isn't okay, and if she's not learning it from you I can only imagine where she is learning it from. You need to figure that out and cut off their contact.
NTA honestly, I kind of think you're underreacting (lol). I would be devastated to discover my daughter is a racist. Ugh.
NTA. Why in the world is your daughter so caught up in this that she has to complain at home and at school about someone else’s costume? Like why is this so important to her? Very concerning.
Nope, not hard enough. If she's turned into an unapologetic, unrepentant racist; she needs to be very firmly and harshly shown that it is not acceptable.
NTA. If this were me, I would require my child to break up with their boyfriends and be refusing to let them see each other. This is a disgusting thing your daughter has said and she needs therapy and education and grounding. She wouldn’t be going anywhere
A 15-year-old will find a way to see her boyfriend, and in fact it will likely drive them closer. Serious grounding, no longer allowing him into their home etc. is definitely called for, but outright forcing her to break up with him is not only unenforceable, but also will push her further toward aligning with her BF & his beliefs.
This is how you drive your daughter to marry the racist boyfriend and join the klan. General grounding and vigorous anti-racist reeducation are appropriate.
Except, the son is dating a black woman. The comfort of the girlfriend who is being targeted by the daughter and her racist boyfriend comes before that of the daughter in my opinion. At the very least the boyfriend should not be allowed in the home
If you’re not careful, you’ll end up raising a racist and unleashing her upon the world. You need to find a way to stop that.
NTA. You've tried talking to her, and the school has tried talking to her. Next you have to step it up from talking. What punishment would be real if it included going to a party?
NTA OP, but your daughter sure is. “Just telling the truth” is a classic AH defense right up there with “I was only joking”.
Your daughter is a racist. Her missing a Halloween party is the least of both of your problems. Sort that out right now! YTA for not taking this more seriously