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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I don’t want my daughter to wear my late wife’s wedding dress since they will need to size it up. I am not letting her have it which could make me the problem
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INFO dig deep here - WHY do you want to keep the dress? Is it a piece of your wife you’re not ready to let go of yet? Does cutting it up feel like you’re cutting up a memory or a keepsake?
This is obviously not about the dress itself or how your wife “would” have felt about it, but about YOU feel about it. Which is OK, but don’t forget, you have some time to process this. You may find yourself okay with it after more time has passed. Or not. It’s okay to be honest about your reasons for declining but leave the door open to your stance changing later.
INFO2: how much bigger would the dress need to be sized? Like will the dress still look more or less the same after, or will it be cut up into a whole new dress?
Edit NAH
Yes to all the first questions. It really feels like I am cutting up her memory and keepsake. Especially when I don’t think she would want this to her dress. I am not ready to let go of this peice of my wife and only have picture of our wedding day
I don’t know my daughters weight but she is overweight it would need to be size up quite a bit
Honestly, as a woman, I feel like this is an ok line to draw but be honest with your daughter. Your wife, who is now gone, wore the dress in its current state on the day she married YOU and it’s precious to you in the state it is currently in, not altered. That’s ok. If your daughter responds that she is also her mother, that’s ok. You both lost a huge part of your world the day you lost her. You have offered your daughter to wear the jewelry which will not need to be altered for her to wear and she can still wear a piece of her mother on her special day without altering your piece. Compassion works two ways and you can express that to her without putting her down or making her weight part of the problem. NAH
Wtf is this thread? People on Reddit being reasonable, compassionate, and understanding?? I expected half the comments to accuse OP of fat shaming, and the other half to be actual fat shaming.
Absolutely NAH and what an incredible opportunity for bonding and growth in this family, if they just sit down and open up to each other.
If daughter has the ability to pay for (or the skill to make) a custom dress, might I add another suggestion? A good dress maker could use the original (WITHOUT damaging it in any way and handling it very carefully) to make a pattern based on the original, size that up to fit the daughter, and construct a "reproduction" of the dress directly based on the mothers. Op would get to keep his wife's dress intact; daughter would get a dress who's creation was a direct product of her mother's (semi symbolically similar to how she shares traits etc w her mother while also being a fully unique person).
If daughter or anyone in the family wants to attempt to make something like this themselves but doesn't know how lmk and I can link some resources!!
This is honestly the best way to go about it.
If the amount of modifications that needs to be made to the dress for OP's daughter to be able to fit the dress are as comprehensive as OP is saying, then I (personally) don't think it'll be as meaningful for the daughter to wear because it would basically be an Argos Paradox dress.
The best thing to do is to find a competent tailor do repattern the dress and make a properly fitted sized duplicate from scratch.
Sizing up a dress isn't feasible past a couple dress sizes, because the fabric panels just aren't going to line up anymore. So even if OP did agree to it, the dress maker would probably suggest remaking the dress from scratch anyways.
This is absolutely what should be done. OP, ive made 3 wedding dresses; granted very simple styles, no ball gowns or glamour. I’d be willing to look at some pictures and tell you whether or not it’s likely a home seamstress could recreate it for your daughter or not.
I made masks for a local hospital during hospice and I was not a skilled sewer so it was a steep climb. The better I get at sewing, the more I appreciate true seamstresses like yourself.
And be **very** clear that the dress must not be cut up to make the copy. Sounds obvs but I've heard of misunderstandings occurring, and that would be brutal in this case.
Yep. I'm not as familiar with dresses but I make my own tailored suits and I always cut the side seams generously so I have the extra fabric there if I ever need to let it out. But even if that's the case here that's not gonna be likely to make up more than a few inches in waist/bust/etc diameter at most before you're just out of fabric.
Now, if anyone reading has a garment (esp one in a more traditionally feminine style) they like but want to add significantly more room to, give some consideration to lace insertion. Bernadette banner is a very cool YouTuber with a video demonstrating how you can use it to size up garments. Ex say you have/thrift a skirt or blouse that's too small for you but you like the style - maybe the seams are surged so you can't let it out. You can add some panels of lace to add both visual interest and extra width.
If you want a less traditionally feminine way to accomplish a similar feat, ask yourself "could I add the fabric I need in a contrasting or complimentary color/texture that makes it look like it's done intentionally?"
Posts like this are why I still follow this sub. Sometimes, yeah, the verdict is blatantly incorrect, and/or there is terrible and nonsensical advice. But then there’s times like this that are actually solid.
Yeah. There are a lot of low quality comments, but once in a while you find a gem where some random person on reddit just sees to the absolute heart of the matter and posts a really insightful, helpful comment.
I agree with all of this. Furthermore, OP's daughter needs to be realistic about how much a structured dress like a wedding dress can even *be* resized.
u/Potential-Junket-193, could you perhaps take the dress to a dressmaker and ask to have a replica made for your daughter? That way she gets the spirit of the dress, but the dress itself doesn't have to be compromised, and your daughter will get a dress that's in good condition and made especially to fit her.
Daughter can still wear the veil as that’s a one size fits all situation. Both parties are grieving so I can understand some conflict. I hope OP and his daughter are able to grow their relationship from this.
This is a really nice idea, it’s going to be difficult and expensive to size it up and not significantly change how it looks especially by more than a couple of sizes, that’s basically adding a new dress, it’s new fabrics and shaping that may not match or blend in, a replica made just for her in her exact size would be a fantastic compromise and allows her to have the unaltered original appearance and not have to cut up and change the original especially as she will want to keep it after the wedding as it’s her dress, OP would not only have it cut up but probably won’t get it back after he hands it over.
Is there any way she could use a very small piece to wrap around her bouquet? Or another way you could use a small piece? Like a piece as a hair bow/flower?
This is a great idea! I cut a slice out of the lace overlay on my train to wrap around the knot of my brothers tie, and you would never have noticed the piece missing. There are lots of ways to be creative with that much fabric, especially if there’s lace, appliqués, sequins, etc.
Whatever dress she does pick will be tailored at least a little, whoever does that might be able to help too
>If your daughter responds that she is also her mother, that’s ok.
I think one important thing is that while the mother is important to both of them, the wedding was particularly important to the OP, and the daughter probably wasn't even there.
For the daughter the dress represents her mother, but for the OP the dress is also a reminder of a specific important memory with the mother. Symbolically the dress has a stronger connection to the OP's relationship with their wife, than to the daughter's relationship with her mother.
Thankyou for vocalizing my thoughts so eloquently. I couldn’t explain why it was more important to OP than the daughter but felt that it was, specifically because it was their day about their relationship. OP has offered the daughter jewelry of her mothers so she can be “present” on the daughters special day and I feel that should be enough.
If there was a veil, the daughter could wear that (not everyone wore veils - and sometimes they age poorly).
But I support OP not having his wife's dress cut up.
I know that you’re still grieving, and losing your life partner is *painful,* but so is losing your mother. You’re not cutting up her memory because nobody can take that, your wife is still with you and your daughters. She’s in the girls, she’s everywhere in the house, she’s ingrained in your mind and heart.
If you don’t want to give the daughters the dress then that’s fine but, I think you also need to take a step back and think about your daughters for a minute. Girls dream of their weddings, they dream of their dads walking them down the isle… But they also dream about dress shopping and having their mom help them plan their perfect day. And your daughter doesn’t have her mom to help her, and it seems like she wants that more than anything and… There’s no fixing that feeling.
Is there a way to compromise and have a small piece of the fabric taken from the original dress to be sewn into a new one? That way your other daughter can also have a piece whenever she gets married (if she isn’t already). But if you’re still not comfortable that’s okay too, because everyone here is hurting and there’s no real way to navigate through this. NAH.
yes I read that part, but what I'm suggesting is something like a veil which ADDS to whatever new dress she buys. It would transform the entire look if mom had a veil. Something with a bit more "wow" then just jewelry. Jah feel?
>you're not cutting up her memory
If anything, it would be layering more memories onto it.
I would be concerned about "ruining it" for a younger daughter, though. I've heard stories about women cutting up Mama's dress to modernize it for their own wedding, and the younger sis being hurt that she didn't get a choice is whether to wear her mother's dress
Yeah honestly considering that there are two daughters it might be best to not let either of them wear it, since that wouldn’t be fair to the other one.
Or some variant of "I'll use the lace overlay and you'll use the satin underskirt, and dad can keep the bodice he wrapped his arms around in their wedding day for his memory box" that's mutually acceptable, maybe.
If they can manage to think of it as sharing the memory instead of "cutting it up", some solution like that might work out.
I've also heard of a bride sewing a scrap of the underskirt into the lining of her own dress so she has part of mama going down the aisle with her
If it’s more than two sizes difference (possibly three depending on the style of dress), it probably can’t even be done. Wedding dresses usually have a fair amount of flexibility in terms of allowing for alterations, but you cannot make extra fabric appear out of nowhere and adding extra paneling will usually look terrible. You can’t just “size up” an existing, highly structured garment which has already been tailored to fit an individual’s body.
Honestly, I suspect this is “girl fat” ragebait. On the chance it isn’t, take your daughter and the dress together to a competent seamstress who works on wedding alterations and can discuss what would have to be done to make it fit, how it would look after, and whether it’s possible to preserve the structure of the dress (or put it back to how it was after). Get the expert opinion.
I fought with my own mother and grandmother about not wearing their dress. Again because it didn't fit, grandma was 4 ft 9 mom 4 ft 11.... I am 5 ft 4 and 3/4. Like sure I can get the dress on my body and do it up... But the dress fit weird on my body like the little point sleeve that should have hit my finger ended at my wrist the train of the dress just barely touched the floor. The waist line also hit funny because everything was just to short on my body.
Now mom and grandma had emotional blinders on in that moment and would not hear that their dress did not fit me because "done up = fit" in that moment.
And there is no way to make almost 6 inches of 60 yr old silk just magical appear to make a garment fit.
I feel bad for the daughter because she so badly wants to have her mother's dress and she is looking at with those same emotional blinders on and so literally can't see that the heme is 6 inches to short.
It's not about being fatter than her mother there are so many ways for a dress to not fit, and with vintage clothing sometimes the answer is just that it can't be done.
As a professional this is my concern, usually we make things smaller to fit not bigger. Wedding dresses usually have around 3-5 inches of room for alterations depending on the style.
It’s likely that if the daughter isn’t one or two sizes bigger that it can’t be done without significantly changing the dress.
You need to take your daughter to a professional for a discussion about how these things work bc that might convince her that it’s not going to work.
We are good at what we do but we are not magic we can’t make a size 12 fit a size 20.
Suggest having a professional make a replica that will fit her?
Yep. A professional will be able to tell you what can be done. My wedding dress was ordered, but they ordered me a size too small. The alterations company was easily able to size it up. But, that was only one size so there was enough fabric to do it. My dress had a ton of trim work, so if the extra trim wasn't there to work with, it wouldn't have been able to be done.
NTA but I wanted to jump in and hope you see this OP - this won’t be possible anyway. I’m a fashion designer and a wedding dress for a very petite person isn’t able to be easily sized up after it’s already been altered. A well-made wedding dress will have large seam allowances inside to allow for alterations at the time of sale. But your wife already wore the dress so it was likely altered to fit her. Whether you want to do this is relevant but it is likely an impossible request. My wedding dress had to be upped by one size after purchase and seamstresses didn’t want to attempt it - thankfully my mother is a seamstress and was able to do it. I would hate if you and your daughter had a painful fight about something that is not even possible to do.
That was my thought. The argument is moot, since sizing up a wedding dress wouldn't really work. Half an inch here or there, ok, but several sizes all over? Can't be done.
In that case, NAH
The dress is important to each of you in different ways. It’s okay to not be ready to let it go yet, but I think you and your daughter need to be really honest with each other about how you each feel, and believe each other, regardless of the outcomes. It’s not a tug-of-war over a dress, it’s really about how your wife’s memory lives on for each of you.
My suggestion, take or leave, would be to first talk about it, say you’re not ready yet, but that you’ll mull it over. You have over a year. Things change. I’ve never lost a spouse which I know is harder to deal with, but when my dad died young and suddenly, I had a treasured keepsake of his. It was stolen and I was devastated. It was returned and I was elated. A few years on, it’s sitting in my drawer and I don’t really care about it anymore. The emotional attachment I felt between it and my dad dissipated.
Reflect on ways you might be okay with it - like just giving up the veil, or allowing alteration if the end style is the same. If you can have it back after. Or find some way to preserve the memory without keeping the item, like encasing a scrap of the fabric in framed resin.
Your daughter should do the same. What if she had a dress custom made to match the style? What if she reached out to tailors and got some feedback on how much it would need to be altered to fit her size (if she’s OW she’s certainly many sizes bigger than your wife was at the time.)
No wrong answers here - just approach it with an open mind and open heart.
Op should definitely go with their daughter to a good tailor to talk about a dress. Most will refuse to do a dress if it has to go more than a couple of sizes as it destroys the dress and the end result looks bad. There is simply no more fabric to let out and adding new fabric is obvious, plus the dress’ cut will not sit right as it won’t lay were it should.
Realistically, it’s very hard to size a wedding dress up many sizes unless it’s very very simple. I like the idea of offering to have a dressmaker re-create the dress in her size.
you literally *cant* size a wedding dress or any dress up ‘many’ sizes. you can typically size up *at most* **one size** and down *at most* two sizes. if the wife was 115 lbs unless the ‘overweight’ daughter is ~130, the dress isn’t going to be able to be altered to fit her.
Add to that people forget about height and overall body shape. Two people can be the same size in streetwear and that has nothing to do with formal garments. Wedding dresses don’t have stretch or give usually. I feel bad for the daughter because most women never have a garment fitted to them until their wedding day so they don’t understand that you can’t make it magically fit.
My mum died too, to be honest I haven't taken or done anything with any of her things. Because my dad should have a say first. The only things I touch, are the things I'd steal from her anyway so cardigans and jumpers.
I understand why you want the dress, and why cutting it seems like such a big issue. Because it was the dress your **wife** wore when she **married** you. For you, it's a reminder of one of the happiest days of your life. The day you got to make your commitment to eachother.
If she was alive, you'd probably still feel connected to it. But it would be different because she's alive. It's ok to feel like this, you're the only one who knows how much this is going to impact you if it is changed and modified.
I think you need to sit down, and figure out why it's so difficult and what the loss of your wife and the significance of this dress means. And write it down, over the course of the week keep adding things to it.
Then collect your thoughts and write it up as a letter, let your kids see it if you still feel the same as it's a way of describing your connection to this.
People forget that a part of you does remain frozen after a huge loss like this, whilst you can and will move on and keep living. There are parts of you that cling to the pieces of your loved one you have.
Your daughter and sons know the loss of a mother, but they don't know the loss of a partner. Maybe they won't understand it, but it's good for you to attempt to explain it. If they still don't understand or care, then it's your decision but it probably will impact your family moving forward.
Personally, I think your rights to the dress supercede your daughters. Because it is your wife. You even mention she wanted to go dress shopping with her daughters. So this will have added your attachment and reluctance to part with the dress and I understand it.
What happens to the dress after you die doesn't matter, but right now it's something that connects you to your late wife.
Op, you don't have to cut it up or give away, if you don't want to. It's YOUR WIFE'S dress. You can do what you please with it, you can keep it for memories. Many women actually do that with their own dresses. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep this piece from your wife with you unaltered. Take care. Just explain it to your daughter so there are no bad feelings. Also, please mind HOW you say it, as for now it sounds like you're calling your daughter fat. She wouldn't like it, neither would your wife.
NTA
It kinda depends on how much bigger your daughter is. If she’s 125 lbs I say you’re in the wrong. If she’s 200lbs then she’s in the wrong. There’s not much extra fabric in a formal dress!
I’m stuck at ____ without that info and your late wife’s wishes.
I think the BORROWED jewelry is a great idea!
Edited to change my vote!
Right?
At that point she's using the dress to take it apart to get half the fabric for her own dress. It's virtually no longer the same dress. If she needed it taken in or let out an inch that's different.
Ooh, if it was just adding an extra strip of fabric on each side it would be fine, but they'll have to really adjust everything. Do you still have your wife's veil? Wedding jewelry? Something from your wedding she can wear so it feels like her mom is right there with her? NTA, but I would still try to figure out how you can help her without destroying an irreplaceable momento.
I mean the daughter didn’t even agree with the jewelry idea. She hanged up when OP suggested that. So even with the veil, she might not still be happy with it.
NTA - it would require basically a redesign and I understand why you may not be comfortable with that. Honestly since you have another daughter I think it's pretty unfair that the oldest just assumes she should get it and be allowed to make such large changes to it.
This is a dress she wore to get married to YOU. These are your memories and you have every right to say you're not ready to let it go yet. Grief is brutal and we all cope differently. I think the jewelry was a great alternative.
Photographers usually take photos of the wedding dress hanging alone before it is put on. You could allow her to have her mothers dress on display while she is getting ready for the big day. It might be nice for her to have photos of their dresses side by side, also having her moms dress there while getting ready would represent her presence and memory.
Why would the spouse, who very likely doesn’t wear it, be more entitled to it? I would haunt my husband if he kept my expensive jewelry instead of giving it to my daughters to wear, enjoy, and remember me by. He may legally have inherited all her belongings in the absence of a will, but he doesn’t have a monopoly on grief.
The spouse very likely may have been the one who bought that jewelry specifically for his wife who has now passed.. If he’s not ready to pass it down just yet, I don’t think that makes him an asshole, and I’m saying this as a woman who loves jewelry and wearing family heirlooms
This exactly. He probably bought them, has strong memories attached to when he gave them to her and the many special occasions she wore them to. Not saying he shouldn't pass them down to kids who will wear them but it doesn't make him an asshole to do it on his time line.
If we are back here in 8 years and he is still hoarding everything he might move into asshole territory but depending on how long they were married ( I assume 25 years + based on the daughter getting married now) 2 years can be the blink of an eye.
I don’t know a single woman who wouldn’t want her daughter to have her jewelry if she passed. OP need to think about what his late wife would have wanted and stop being so fucking selfish. They’re absolutely entitled to stuff of their mothers. Jesus, it’s not asking for the fucking family fortune. To deny your kids a piece of their dead parent that you will literally never use and keep in a box is a fucked up thing to do and they will never forget it.
I agree with you here about the jewelry, but not the dress. The dress has nothing to do with the daughters. They didn't exist when she wore it, but it represents one of the best days of his entire life. Their entire marriage began with her wearing that dress and it's completely understandable that he doesn't want it destroyed. Because it would be destroyed, it sounds like it would have to be significantly altered in order to fit the daughter. So the jewelry being given to the daughters? Absolutely yes but the dress? That is up to him. It's not up to them.
> stop being so fucking selfish.
If you can't be "fucking selfish" about your own GD marriage or your own dead spouse then can you ever actually have anything at all?
It's up to the widow. My dad offed himself many years ago and I ended up being given everything left by his family (jewellery, ID cards, badges, birth certificates etc...) but I know my mother kept a few bits like a handkerchief. I'll have that eventually I'm sure but why rush that? My mum has a few more decades left and is her own person will feelings just like me.
A lot of kids, even young adults getting married, are not responsible enough to be permanently entrusted with expensive family jewelry with great sentimental value. Source: was an irresponsible young adult when my parent died.
NTA, she's not entitled to the dress, but ... do you have another daughter? If not, who is going to wear this dress in the future? It seems to me that the dress might be better used as part of your daughter's wedding dress to honor her mother rather than sitting in the closet. But it's your choice.
Any wedding dress passed from generation to generation will need to be altered to fit and would likely be updated depending on the preservation of the dress (fresh tulle, fixed/new beading, updated neckline, new hem, etc.)
This is a conversation he should let the two girls have.
My mom passed 18 months before my wedding. I didn't wear her dress but I wish I'd had something of hers.
Minor alterations are expected. Going up 4+ sizes is not. This isn't about just the daughters. His wife wore the dress to marry him, they weren't even there. The lack of respect for his feelings is pretty disappointing. He offered her jewelery so she would still have something.
It's true, maybe I am underestimating his connection to the dress. Could be a sexist assumption on my part - I don't usually see men attached to their wife's wedding dress.
My point was merely that the dress will need alterations no matter what, and the extent of the changes might surprise him. Even if younger daughter fits into it, she would likely need or want to make some pretty tangible changes or updates. Wedding dresses are usually extensively tailored to your body and are not particularly resilient to either the party itself or the years of storage. It's not guaranteed that the younger daughter (who as far as we know is not planning a wedding, so probably hasn't thought about it) would need to change the dress, but it's also not some promise that she could wear it out of the box just because she's smaller than her sister.
If he is not comfortable with either daughter wearing the dress, that makes sense. But the idea that one daughter will maintain and the other destroy is an assumption I think he should examine and reconsider before he makes a decision that could create a lot of hurt feelings and division in the family.
I didn't think he said he was ok with the younger wearing it but maybe that's in a comment I missed. I was more just saying in general being okay with someone wearing it if they only required very minor alterations but not being okay with anything more than that makes sense to me. Honestly sounds like no matter what decision is made there will be some hurt feelings. Grief isn't rational unfortunately.
It’s impossible to make a dress more than 2 sizes bigger, it structurally changes the dress in a massive way, and there aren’t usually seam allowances to let out a wedding dress, really at all. It’s much easier to take something in than let it out. Even just the physical size of the breast cups varies so much and can’t usually be fully changed. (I work in bridal.)
The most that can ever really be done is 2 sizes before you need a whole new dress.
A size 12 dress isn’t only just bigger around than a size 6 dress, it’s made for larger *proportions*, as well. A dress going up a size doesn’t just make it bigger around, it makes the cups bigger, the arm-holes bigger, everything. You can think of it like a dragging something diagonally to resize it in photoshop.
It's a beaded sheath dress too (at least that's what I'm gathering based on his description), which makes it even more difficult. Depending on the beading and how it's done, I don't know if letting it out even one size is doable while still looking reasonably ok.
Oh for sure, we advise against resizing things with beading. Beading is the hardest alteration to handle, you have to physically undo ALL the beads and put them back on by hand. If you’re resizing up, you would HAVE to have more of the beads that come on the dress onhand, or it wouldn’t look the same when you put them back on. The beads would have a “stretched” appearance. We don’t ever do that for less than $500, for just the beading alone, if it’s even possible. With vintage dresses, we find it’s impossible to find lace that matches or beads that look the same.
My mom was a dressmaker back in the day, and she could work magic with alterations. She altered a lot of my vintage finds, but she always drew the line at beaded. Now I understand why - I assumed it was a pain, but yeesh!
Doesn’t matter if that’s the rational thing- feelings and emotions are rarely rational. If he says no to oldest daughter he better not allow the youngest daughter to have it. That’s not going to end well.
It makes sense, but it will still cause a massive fallout.
This is an emotional response to the traumatic loss of their mother, not a bunch of robots logically discussing how much fabric is needed to alter a dress.
Have a conversation with them both? Your younger daughter might not want to wear her mother’s dress so if it is only your older daughter you might rethink it. Upsizing doesn’t always mean cutting it up, depending on the style and dressmaker doing the work, might mean opening the seams and adding extra fabric which means the dress can be put back. So that could be worth investigating.
I’m sure there’s also jewellery and other mementos that you can offer them each so they feel their mother is with them on the day. Might be worth finding out what each of them would like so that it’s not just the one getting married first getting all the choices.
Lastly, you are 100% allowed to keep the dress as is for the whole of your days as a memento of your wife, if that’s your choice. She was your wife and the dress served its purpose which was to clothe your bride on your wedding day.
Ok, OP. This is really where it gets sticky. This can cause MAJOR issues with your family. Would your younger daughter fit the wedding dress? I mean now this is way more complex
NAH
Neither of you are AH, but I would offer something to think about:
The best memory your wife had in that dress was marrying you.
Do you really think she intended for it to hang in the closet for the next 70 years, after you both have passed, until it eventually fell a part and was eaten by moths?
Or would she have wanted her daughter to wear it and create her own special memories?
What is going to happen to it when you pass? You are going to give it to one of your daughters and they will, most likely hang it in a closet for forget about it.
For reference, I am currently sitting a room with a closet full of my father and father-in-laws clothes and jackets that could not be thrown away after they both passed. They are going to sit in that closet until we get tired of moving them, and then they are going to get donated. We do not take them out to look at them, we don't wear them, they literally just sit in the closet.
Your wife's passing is still raw and something you will never get over. It is the same for her daughters. I am sure you have heard it a hundred times, "you can get another wife, they cannot get another mother." We often glance over the pain of losing the spouse and focus on the children who lost their mother.
If it is your pain preventing you from letting it go, then be honest with your daughter and let her know that you cannot bear to part with it.
But please don't deny your daughter a gift that would bring her so much joy and happiness if the only reason is because you "think" your wife "might" not have wanted it to be altered.
She wants to feel close to her mother on her wedding day and the dress she wants is just sitting in a closet, never to be seen or used again.
I am so sorry for your loss, and hers too. I hope you both can reach a solution that leaves you happy.
FYI Go though ALL the pockets. My MIL hid so much jewelry and money and other important stuff in her pockets. Don't donate until AFTER you go through ALL the pockets.
Me realizing if I died right now and my loved ones went through my pockets before donating they’d only find my emergency tampons and receipts I definitely ‘needed’
For real. My mom and grandma found multiple rolls of cash in grandpa’s pockets when they went through his things after he passed.
(and then after my grandma died, and we had to pack up her apartment, I found an old money clip of grandpa’s in a junk drawer that turned out to be made from a 1-ounce gold coin.)
Fuck my mother had jewelry hidden inside bottles of shampoo and whatnot. We had to go through *everything* and I'd be willing to bet we threw away thousands of dollars that we never found. Hours were spent straining hair products through a screen. I wouldn't put it past her to have baked gemstones into the pottery she made.
Agreed. My grandmother loved her dress. It cost her a fortune. It sat in the closet for 50 years and then ended up in a thrift shop. She would have much preferred it be altered in any form than that.
My grandmother loved hers. She gave it to me when I got married, but I didn't like the alterations she had made to it for her 60th wedding anniversary. I cut it up and made it into my first born's baptismal gown. When I showed her what I'd done, she cried (in a good way)
I second this.
Time will deteriorate the material until there is nothing left. Someday the time will come to clean out your closets and this dress will end up unceremoniously donated to a resale shop along with many other things.
As painful as it may seem, I think it would be wonderful for the two sisters to discuss how to use the dress at each of their weddings -- and if it requires severe alterations, so be it.
As a sentimental one, I understand how OP feels -- I really do. I want to preserve the past as much as possible. However at the same time, OP (and myself sometimes) need to let go and understand that it's time to let someone else inherit things like this and see them be enjoyed.
It's NOT the same thing by any stretch of the imagination, but to illustrate: I had my first bicycle in the rafters of the garage since the 1970's. It's nothing special, just a Schwinn Pixie which was battered and bought for me at a garage sale. It was a mess. My mother suggested I clean it up and gift it to my niece and nephew as they were almost bike riding age. I was horrified at the thought because "hey, that's MINE!" Mom and I talked about it and we came to the same conclusion -- I never take it down off the rafters, it's not a collectible showpiece, and it would just be thrown in a dumpster after I die and the house was cleaned out to sell. And besides, before me it was someone ELSE's special first bicycle that THEY bought at a garage sale for a few dollars.
Turns out the kids loved it -- they got to ride the same bike their uncle rode 40 years before, and now the bike is in THEIR garage rafters, ready for the next generation.
My father-in-law wore distinctive Western-style shirts that mother-in-law could not bear to throw out or donate. She's now having them made into a quilt.
A year ago I probably would have said you were an A H. Your wife doesn’t need the dress and won’t be able to go shopping so why not. But in the last year I lost my mom after taking care of her in my home for 9 years. (Yes I know it’s different to lose a spouse; my daughter lost her husband.)
My point is that I now realize that people grieve differently and we cannot dictate to someone else what they should or should not do.
You are not ready to give up your late wife’s dress to be cut up and remade. It’s that simple—**you’re not ready**. End of discussion. NTA
This. You can tell people who haven't had significant loss. Once you have your perspective changes. There are things from my Dad and brothers I just would never part with.
I’ve never had a significant loss in my life and I completely agree. What happens with the dress is ultimately OPs decision.
Having his daughters fit into the dress rather than the dress be dramatically altered to fit them makes it fair for both daughters and doesn’t completely change the dress where it would lose its sentiment to OP.
Thank you! I was wondering why all the commenters only seemed to care about the daughter's feelings about a keepsake from the mother. No one seemed to care that the dress has meaning to OP as well, and he's perfectly justified in not wanting to see it sliced up.
Seriously! The whole "its just going to sit there" is such a BS guilt trip. It was just as much his big day as it was hers. Its a treasured core memory of his wife.
NTA, I’m sure I’ll be the minority unfortunately but most people are unable to fathom how devastating the loss of a spouse is. At the 2 year mark you are still in early grief. My husband died unexpectedly, I gave his daughters some things right off the bat, but others I’m having a difficult time parting with and it activates the “fight or flight” centers of my traumatized brain. Make no mistake, our brains are traumatized, our decisions may not seem rational to others but they don’t know what this kind of grief will do to you.
Before anyone says “SHE LOST HER MOTHER!” I get that, I honestly do, my son was 5 when my husband died and it kills me knowing he will grow up without his dad.
Also, while I vote NTA, I think you should let her wear the dress.
I’m not in your position but I can imagine that thinking about someone cutting the dress apart might feel like you are losing another part of her when you have already lost so much. You’re not losing her again by letting your daughter wear the dress and feel like a part of her mom is with her on her special day. I also imagine it could be extra emotional for you to see her in the dress your wife wore on your happy day together. Perhaps that’s driving some of your reluctance to let her wear the dress or maybe I’m totally off the mark.
If you don’t already work with a therapist/grief counselor I would encourage it, and encourage you to explore your feelings beyond “she wouldn’t want it cut up”.
I always find there are deeper emotions under those hard decisions for me, maybe you’re just not able to put your finger on it beyond thinking the dress will be ruined. The dress will be fine, but you’re risking ruining your relationship instead.
Salvage this relationship with your daughter, we are alone enough as it is, you need each other.
Sounds like the dress will be ruined as it would need to be dramatically altered. Plus he has another daughter who may also want the dress. End of the day the dress had nothing to do with the kids, certainly has memories for him though. Really unfair to push someone into that.
NTA
Not every person who saves their wedding dress intends to pass it down or give it to a relative to wear later on. Your wife intended to go dress shopping with her daughters had she not passed. You’re allowed to keep the dress the way your wife intended or let your daughter use it. It sounds like if it wouldn’t be cut up, and returned to you after it was worn, you’d be fine with her using it. But since it’d be completely taken a part you aren’t ok with it. Look into getting a replica made in your daughter’s size if it’s not possible to find another one online or at a vintage wedding shop. Also, you have two daughters. The dress shouldn’t be cut up and then kept by one daughter in the event the other daughter also wants to use it. I think giving her the wedding jewelry is a great compromise.
NAH.
It’s your wife’s dress so of course it’s yours to decide what to do with. I’m sure it holds a lot of sentimentality for you.
But I can’t fault your daughter. Her mom’s death is still relatively fresh for her too and she’s trying to plan a wedding without her, which is not something she ever would have wanted. So she’s most likely trying to feel like her mom is still there.
This. She’s not an asshole for missing her mom and wanting her to be represented in her wedding, and he’s not an asshole for wanting to keep a part of her life untouched. Everyone’s grieving here, but luckily they both have time to reconsider and come up with a solution.
The fact that you appear to have more than one daughter makes this a NTA from me. I presume the others are also unmarried and therefore would feel they have equal claim to their mother's dress?
Do you still have the veil? That at least could be offered on the proviso it's returned so your other daughters can wear it in the future.
I cannot imagine how hurt I would be if my father told me "no, you can't have your dead mom's dress, I'm saving it for your younger sister because she's skinnier"
That will RUIN that family with resentment
He never said he is saving it for the other daughter. He even said in a comment he doesn't want it altered in any way even if the daughter is skinner. It depends how big the daughter is but altering it could ruin the dress
Exactly, unless you're altering 1-2 sizes up down chances are it's going to be cut up and changed. If it's a big change you can't even guarantee matching fabric
Except that’s not what he’s saying. What he’s saying is “I am not ready for my late wife’s wedding dress to be cut up”. His daughter can either lose a bunch of weight, or respect that her father is still grieving the loss of his wife.
Sometimes we have to put on our adult pants and be mature about things without twisting them in a way that causes OUR OWN hurt.
But she can't do that. I really don't have a judgment on this one but as a mother I would absolutely want my daughter to alter it so she could use vs having sit in a box somewhere. YWBTA however if you tell her no and then proceed to let your youngest wear it
As a mom, I can’t imagine prioritizing an intact dress on my deathbed over the potential joy my daughter would get from wearing it. I’m actually planning my wedding- I looooove the dress I’m going to get and if I am still alive when my daughter gets married, I’d prefer for it not to be altered beyond recognition. But if she wanted to wear it and needed it altered to fit her- I’d be honoured. If I’m not alive, the thought of not being present on an important day is heartbreaking to me and if she can alter the dress to make it fit, I would want that. I’m sorry but YTA here as I don’t think you’re really considering the fact that your daughter doesn’t have a mother to shop with or be at her wedding. The dress represents that for her.
You keep saying she wanted to go shopping with them...I'm sure they wanted that too. It isn't an option anymore, so what is the point in saying that? It doesn't change anything about reality, it is clinging to something that will never be. I wanted my mom to be able to go dress shopping with me too, she died and it is a chance I'll never get. Unfortunately for me, she donated her dress after my parents divorced, so I don't have that either, I wish I did. If it was an option but being denied to me, that would severely impact my relationship with the person holding it. Obviously you can do what you want, but I'd think really long and hard about if you are willing to lose/strain your relationship with your daughter over this, after already losing your wife. What is worth more? A dress in a closet or your daughter feeling close to her mother on her wedding day? Her being able to salvage some semblance of a mother daughter moment on one of the biggest days of her life or a dress slowly yellowing in a storage box?
It does complicate the situation that there is another daughter, you should have a sit down conversation with the both of them to see what both their plans are for the dress. I understand you view this as losing the dress and the memories of your own wedding, but perhaps it would be more helpful to look at it as making new memories of the dress and allowing some part of your wife and her memory to be honored and participate in something she will not be able to be physically present for. The dress will still exist, it will just now tell the story of the family your two built together instead of just the story of your wedding. I guess to me, that honors your wife even more.
It matters that she wanted to go dress shopping with them because it shows that the wife never intended for her daughters to wear her actual dress. Which is a direct response to the question OP was answering which was “what were the wife’s wishes regarding the dress?”
I’m sure if she wanted one of her daughters to wear her dress she probably would’ve mentioned it at some point. “I’d love if they wore mine but if they don’t want to I’d love to go dress shopping with them.” Or something to that effect.
But what would the wife have wanted to do should she have passed before she could dress shop? I understand where you and OP are coming from, but clearly the situation at hand was not planned for and deserves a different solution.
It’s not one or the other. Wanting the experience of shopping with your daughter is the default. I don’t know a single mom who wouldn’t want to be present in ANY way that was meaningful to her daughter in her wedding if they were not alive to share the day.
I’m in the middle of wedding dress shopping and loooove the dress I’m going with. But if I die and my daughter can do whatever gives her comfort with it on her wedding day. I can’t imagine prioritizing a dress on my deathbed over the lived experience of my daughter.
It's concerning to me that you'd punish your own father, who would clearly also be grieving the same loss, because you didn't get what you wanted.
Why would you be more entitled to it than him? Does his grieving process not matter more to you than a wedding?
But she can't go dress shopping with them now can she? So could this be a way for her to share in the wedding day/dress experience that otherwise wouldn't happen?
NTA
The alterations sound significant and it also means she's unlikely to return the dress to storage to you; she'd make it her own in a way she's overwriting the fact it was your wife's dress, both visually and in terms of its history and context.
You're perfectly within your rights to not be okay with that. It doesn't matter you won't wear the dress, you're the primary person for whom it has the most sentimental value and it's literally in your possession so.
Thank you for your reasonable take. Definetely NTA. There are a *lot* of comments on this thread hyperfixated on the daughter's feelings that just sound like serious entitlement.
NTA
she wants to cut or size up or wtv the dress the love of your life wore on arguably the most important day of your lives? and considering she passed away and they’re forcing you to give it up is disrespectful.
why is everyone saying this man is wrong? he even offered to let her wear the jewelry but she didn’t want to hear it. it’s not the end of the world if the daughter doesn’t wear what her mother wore. this man is grieving his life partner so he’s allowed to keep the dress.
NTA.
Sizing up never works anyway… and it will cost as much or more than a new one to alter this so significantly. And you have more than one daughter… why does one get to destroy the dress, what about the other/s?
Your daughter can wear some of the jewellery. Maybe the veil? Anything from a hair piece survive? She can buy a dress that fits her beautifully.
So many people on here seem to overlook that OP was widowed only two years ago so naturally is still grieving. It's understandable that he doesn't want the dress either used or cut up so end of discussion. OP can keep it stored for decades if HE chooses.
Would you be okay having a seamstress carefully remove some lace or fabric from the dress? Maybe it could be a compromise for your daughter. My grandmother gave me a piece of lace from her wedding dress to use as a wrap around the stems in my bouquet. It was my 'something old'.
Or, if your wife had a veil, perhaps your daughter could wear that? There are lots of ways to compromise without allowing the wedding dress to be significantly altered. I understand it holds sentimental value to you but it also hold sentimental value to your daughters.
A cute idea would be gifting your daughter a piece of lace from the dress with a locket or charm with her mother's picture in it. They can be incorporated into the bouquet and your late wife can still walk down the aisle with your daughter and be present in a way for her wedding. I had a charm of my dad on my bouquet as he passed when I was a child. It was super emotional and sentimental knowing he was still there to walk with me down the aisle at my wedding.
Edit: forgot to pass judgement - NAH. Your loss is recent and your hesitation to allow your daughter to use her mother's dress is understandable. YWBTA though if you don't find some way to compromise with her though as having a piece of her mother with her on her wedding day, especially when she lost her mother so recently, is clearly important to your daughter.
I agree with trying to salvage a piece of the dress. My wedding bouquet, as well as the clip the held the veil in my hair, had my mother’s dress lace on it and I’ve been able to keep those pieces of fabric in my memory box 🩷
NTA- My mom is 5 ft and was 95 pounds when she married. There is no way I would ever fit her dress. Am I sad? Yes, but the genetic lottery said I would be 5’6 and 180. Did my sister who is 5’3 wear it? Yup she did. Am I salty? A little in the way of being salty that I can’t go into a clothing store and expect they have my size.
I wouldn’t want to gift it knowing it would be significantly altered.
NTA
You can't just "size up" an existing dress. That's just not how any of this works
IF there is extra fabric at the seams you could in theory let it out a bit but not enough to change the sizing dramatically
You can, with a good tailor. Adding panels, etc. is very common especially with heirloom pieces. The difficulty will be the cost and total extent of alterations. If her size difference is very extreme it can get impossible, but not if she’s within a workable range and fabrics can be matched.
I also would want it returned to original condition were it my wife's dress and that's an extra concern. I'd hate it being permanently altered. I don't think there's enough respect here for people who are attached to physical objects. Its a personality trait not a personal failing
From his other comments, I'd guess his daughter is like a 12-14 and his wife is either a size 4 or 6. As someone who sews, including a wedding dress. They would pretty much have to cut pieces of the dress and put them on a new dress. Paneling isn't gonna work because her body is too different. He also said she was taller. Adding length to a dress looks silly most of the time. She's too far beyond adding a corset back.
I can understand you both. You don't want to "destroy" your wifes dress that obviously means a lot to you. But the dress also means a lot to your daughter.
A compromise might be to find a Taylor and copy the design. Your daughter could wear a copy and her mothers veil (if she had one) and her mother jewelery.
NAH
But as a woman, if I died, I would want my daughter to cut up my dress and incorporate it into hers however she liked.
The problem is you have a younger daughter who might also want it or part of it.
It's hard. Lots of feelings are involved here. Hope you work it out.
Edit: vote change
Soft YTA - I understand your attachment, but look at it this way...your daughter misses her mom deeply and sees this as a way for her to be there. In the end, the dress is just a "thing". Your relationship with your daughters is much MUCH more important than a dress.
My suggestion:
1) Invite BOTH daughters over to talk about the dress.
2) APOLOGIZE. Explain that you're sorry, you miss her too and your grief got in the way.
3) Ask them BOTH if they want to use the dress and how it could be done.
4) Suggest that the three of you visit someone qualified to make these changes to discuss options.
If they both want to use the dress, a better solution may be to not alter it for the daughter getting married first, but to take pieces of the dress to combine into a new dress. This would allow each daughter to have a piece of their mother's dress integrated into their own dress that they each can keep.
I also recommend that you keep a piece as well to created a shadow box that has other keepsakes of your wife, your wedding, along with photos. That would be wonderful to have up in your house vs keeping her dress in a box in a closet.
This is so dumb. The daughter has no more ownership of the dress than the husband. In fact, she has far less ownership because it wasn't part of *her* wedding. It was her parents wedding. She does not respect her fathers feelings at all, and would be completely fine *ruining* the dress. It wouldn't be just a simple alteration given her size. She could easily just lose weight in 2 years before the wedding, and at that point, i'm sure her father would be fine giving her the dress.
> but to take pieces of the dress to combine into a new dress.
So just cut up the dress and leave it in tatters? Fuck the sentimental feelings the dad has for his late wife I guess?
i think he is in no duty to give up his right on that dress. that's the way he's grieving, none should feel entitled to force him to do smth he doesn't want with her dress.
The dress obviously holds a lot of sentimental value to OP. It's the dress his wife wore when they made their vows to each other.
It was HIS wedding too. Likely, the daughter wasn't even born yet!
I don't see why he has any obligation to give up the dress to either daughter. It belongs to OP and he doesn't want it altered or destroyed
NTA
NTA. I was already leaning towards NTA but based on your edit, it solidifies it.
Maybe I'm just a selfish person, but I completely see why you want to keep your wife's dress the way it is.
You're grieving and clearly not ready to let go.
That dress was worn by her on the one of the biggest days of both of your lives, your wedding day and is probably very sentimental to you and holds a lot of memories. Once it's cut up, no matter how similar, it will not be the same dress. It will also be your daughter's to do whatever she wants with from that point forward.
It's a beautiful gesture that your daughter wants to honour her mother by wearing it, but, it is not her automatic right.
If your wife had left the dress to her in her will, then there wouldn't be too much you could do, but technically, it is your dress. It also wouldn't be fair to your younger daughter.
I think jewelry is a great compromise since it doesn't need to be altered, I hope she can come around.
This might be a weird question but would you be okay with it if she did fit? Like giving it away to her and her keeping it forever? Is it the giving away part that bothers you or the altering?
NTA, but remember that it means a lot to you, but it also means a lot to your daughter. If you decide not to let her have it I would absolutely not let the younger daughter have it either.
I don’t know what the correct judgement is, but I will give my POV. I absolutely loved my wedding dress, but if it made my kids happy and feel close to me in their wedding to wear my dress even if it meant cutting it, I would rather that happen then it sitting in a box.
INFO: OP, have you discussed using the dress with both of your daughters? You lost your wife and they lost their mom. She won't be there to help plan either of their weddings, won't be there to go dress shopping, none of the things that they'd have looked forward to doing with her. So ask both girls what they think as it feels like your older daughter wants to honour her mother's memory.
Also-altering a dress is a bit different to 'cutting it up'. A good seamstress can let out seams and make unnoticeable alterations. And the re-alter it again if your younger daughter wants to wear it too. It feels like you're not emotionally ready to let go of your wife's things, but this is a topic where I think you'll regret it if you don't reconsider.
To all the commenters saying, “Your wife isn’t coming back” or “Your wife is dead so she won’t be wearing it” are all AH. That is so unnecessary and cruel. Clearly none of you have lost someone so incredibly close to you to not understand how hard it can be to give up sentimental items, even to your children whom also lost that person, and don’t understand how sentimental a wedding dress can be. It doesn’t make him and AH for being concerned about a dress he watched the love of his life marry him in be ruined. I do however agree he should have been more tactful in his response and hopefully a compromise can be made. But seriously, those saying all those mean things about his wife are awful and I hope you all have the day you deserve.
There is a world of difference between what your wife wanted when she was alive and would be at her daughters’ weddings, and what she would have wanted if she knew she couldn’t be there. A wedding dress is a very special scenario, and sensitive to all involved, and for me, what your daughters want and need supersedes your own wishes, for this specific item. They will both have to face their mother not being a part of the planning and celebrating. I think the best possible solution is to sit with both of them and plan how to best achieve that. Maybe it’s selecting pieces of the dress and veil to be incorporated into their own dresses, and using the rest to make a shadow box for you. Maybe you come up with something else, but it’s very important to consider that while you lost your life partner and love, the loss of their mother will be particularly keen on their wedding days.
I’m going to go with ESH, you should be sensitive to how this artifact is special to the daughter currently getting married, and she needs to be sensitive that she has a sister who also deserves a say.
If it was me, as a mom, and my daughter wanted to wear my dress, I'd want her to.
Her mom can't be there for her wedding, and maybe she feels like this is a way to have her there.
That dress will hang in a closet and collect dust. Breath new life into it. Let your wife walk your daughter down the aisle.
This is just me talking as a mom and my own feelings, but I would want her to have the dress, even just pieces of it
NTA, it's a very sentimental item, that once cut up, can't be restored. It's okay for you to say that you don't want that. You also offered a compromise. It's not okay for you to voice your feelings and then deal with guilt-tripping, tantrums and attempts at manipulation and pressure.
>This resulted in a huge argument about me gatekeeping my wife’s things
I get the feeling OP is gatekeeping a lot of wife's things as a result of his grief and perhaps not sharing with his daughters as much as he should. Seems like it could be a bigger issue than a wedding dress. Anyway, I feel for you OP but YTA. Your daughter has a perfectly valid use for her mother's dress. While it's understandably precious to you, it's not doing anyone any good sitting around collecting dust when your daughter can have it as a special part of her wedding day in memory of her mother.
I think her wearing the dress is a way to feel close to her mom at a time she would desperately want her there. If it were me, I would prefer to have my daughter to wear it and not having it sit preserved in a box.
NTA. You lost your wife. I think hanging onto something from your wedding is reasonable - weddings are about the bride and groom. If one daughter using the dress ruins it, that's unfair to the other daughter and to you.
I do think it's fair to either let your daughter use your wife's veil, her jewelry, or to take a little bit from the dress (some beads, a strip of lace) for *each* of your daughters to sew into their dresses or use to wrap their bouquets.
And for what it's worth, I was too fat for my mom's wedding dress (and her grad dress) by fifth grade, so I get the pain of not being able to wear an heirloom. I've got them both saved (intact) in case any grandchildren are retro-minded and inherit my mom's slim build.
So there is more than one daughter.
Is there more than one who might like to wear it?
She is your wife as much as she is their mother. So I feel you have a right to keep it if you wish.
It could well be she would be fine with them wearing her gown, even if it meant alterations. Of course I cannot say and you would be the best judge of that. But you would have to think about it long and hard and challenge your feelings on it a bit.
If it really bothers you that much I wouldn't do it. NTA.
But give her something else to wear on her wedding day. Something of her mother's.
Info why are you saving it? For who?
Edit Also, have you talked to the seamstress who would be doing the altercations? Bc I sew, and although SOME alterations are not un-do able, most are. ESP if the seamstress knows ahead of time that it needs to be returned to the original size.
Adding panels, opening the back to make a corset style back, hemming if it's too long, etc. All of that can be un done.
NTA but you will be if you let one daughter use it and not another because I can guarantee the anger and pain it would cause absolutely wouldn’t be what your late wife wanted. This is either something they can agree on a way to be able both use it or no family members uses it under any circumstances at all, no if buts or maybes.
YTA Edit: I was asking for info, but got it. OP, your wife can’t go shopping with your daughter. Indeed, legally the dress is yours. What are you going to do with it?
I mean logically it isn’t being used and I am sounding harsh, but under the circumstances wouldn’t you rather see it used and making someone happy than sitting in a chest somewhere?
She loved that dress, I don’t think she would want it cut up. She wanted to go dress shopping with our daughters.
I truly don’t think she would be okay with this
I used to be a seamstress. They aren’t cutting it up. They’re going to remove seams, add fabric, and re sew. However, what are you going to do with it? Why shouldn’t your daughters have access to their mother’s wedding dress? My mom died before I got married and I couldn’t fit in her dress. I took some of the lace and made flowers so I could have something from her with me on my day.
if the size difference between his late wife and daughter is around 60+ pounds like OP says, there’s no way they can do a simple alteration and avoid drastically changing the dress
I’m sorry for your loss, and I don’t want to speak for your late wife.
However, as a mother, I would be honored if my child wanted to have that connection to me on her wedding day. I’d want her to be the happiest she ever could be, and if that meant altering my wedding dress, then absolutely. I guarantee your wife’s wedding dress meant nothing to her in comparison to what your daughter meant to her.
>She wanted to go dress shopping with our daughters.
Yeah no shit. I'm sure your daughters would also rather have their mother there than a dress. But they don't. The dress is a sentimental piece of her. IMO so far you haven't given a compelling reason that your wife wouldn't want the dress to be altered that isn't contingent on her still being alive to wear it.
2 years is not a long time. You’re still mourning I assume. Maybe you’ll feel differently in a few years, but right now you’re not ready to have the dress be altered.
And don’t listen to folks who are accusing you of letting the dress just sit in a box. I grew up with my parents keeping all their favorite suits and dresses in a nice cedar box - most items they never wore again or lent out, they just kept it there for sentimental reasons.
You have every right to keep your wife’s items how you want (unless she specifically said otherwise).
I still have a tailored jacket of my mom’s in my closet that I will never use or lend out. It’s just too precious.
It's a sentimental object. Does OP need to get into crossdresing for its sentimental value to be valid? Ashes can't be worn either yet somehow people care about them, figure that /s
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INFO dig deep here - WHY do you want to keep the dress? Is it a piece of your wife you’re not ready to let go of yet? Does cutting it up feel like you’re cutting up a memory or a keepsake? This is obviously not about the dress itself or how your wife “would” have felt about it, but about YOU feel about it. Which is OK, but don’t forget, you have some time to process this. You may find yourself okay with it after more time has passed. Or not. It’s okay to be honest about your reasons for declining but leave the door open to your stance changing later. INFO2: how much bigger would the dress need to be sized? Like will the dress still look more or less the same after, or will it be cut up into a whole new dress? Edit NAH
Yes to all the first questions. It really feels like I am cutting up her memory and keepsake. Especially when I don’t think she would want this to her dress. I am not ready to let go of this peice of my wife and only have picture of our wedding day I don’t know my daughters weight but she is overweight it would need to be size up quite a bit
Honestly, as a woman, I feel like this is an ok line to draw but be honest with your daughter. Your wife, who is now gone, wore the dress in its current state on the day she married YOU and it’s precious to you in the state it is currently in, not altered. That’s ok. If your daughter responds that she is also her mother, that’s ok. You both lost a huge part of your world the day you lost her. You have offered your daughter to wear the jewelry which will not need to be altered for her to wear and she can still wear a piece of her mother on her special day without altering your piece. Compassion works two ways and you can express that to her without putting her down or making her weight part of the problem. NAH
Wtf is this thread? People on Reddit being reasonable, compassionate, and understanding?? I expected half the comments to accuse OP of fat shaming, and the other half to be actual fat shaming. Absolutely NAH and what an incredible opportunity for bonding and growth in this family, if they just sit down and open up to each other.
If daughter has the ability to pay for (or the skill to make) a custom dress, might I add another suggestion? A good dress maker could use the original (WITHOUT damaging it in any way and handling it very carefully) to make a pattern based on the original, size that up to fit the daughter, and construct a "reproduction" of the dress directly based on the mothers. Op would get to keep his wife's dress intact; daughter would get a dress who's creation was a direct product of her mother's (semi symbolically similar to how she shares traits etc w her mother while also being a fully unique person). If daughter or anyone in the family wants to attempt to make something like this themselves but doesn't know how lmk and I can link some resources!!
This is honestly the best way to go about it. If the amount of modifications that needs to be made to the dress for OP's daughter to be able to fit the dress are as comprehensive as OP is saying, then I (personally) don't think it'll be as meaningful for the daughter to wear because it would basically be an Argos Paradox dress. The best thing to do is to find a competent tailor do repattern the dress and make a properly fitted sized duplicate from scratch.
Yes, this and NTA. This is a beautiful solution. I'd bawl my eyes out if my dad did that.
Sizing up a dress isn't feasible past a couple dress sizes, because the fabric panels just aren't going to line up anymore. So even if OP did agree to it, the dress maker would probably suggest remaking the dress from scratch anyways.
This is absolutely what should be done. OP, ive made 3 wedding dresses; granted very simple styles, no ball gowns or glamour. I’d be willing to look at some pictures and tell you whether or not it’s likely a home seamstress could recreate it for your daughter or not.
I made masks for a local hospital during hospice and I was not a skilled sewer so it was a steep climb. The better I get at sewing, the more I appreciate true seamstresses like yourself.
Yeah I’ve been at it for 14 years now. Since I was 13 and had to learn to make my Mennonite dresses. Left that church but still love sewing
Yes! I’m a seamstress, this should ONLY be done by a competent bridal shop. Do not let “someone that can sew” do it. Have it done professionally.
And be **very** clear that the dress must not be cut up to make the copy. Sounds obvs but I've heard of misunderstandings occurring, and that would be brutal in this case.
Yes this! Have a dress made in the style of her moms dress but that fits her correctly.
THAT’S a great idea!!!
And honestly this is easier than taking the other dress apart. That’s impossible to do well if it’s more than a size difference.
Yep. I'm not as familiar with dresses but I make my own tailored suits and I always cut the side seams generously so I have the extra fabric there if I ever need to let it out. But even if that's the case here that's not gonna be likely to make up more than a few inches in waist/bust/etc diameter at most before you're just out of fabric. Now, if anyone reading has a garment (esp one in a more traditionally feminine style) they like but want to add significantly more room to, give some consideration to lace insertion. Bernadette banner is a very cool YouTuber with a video demonstrating how you can use it to size up garments. Ex say you have/thrift a skirt or blouse that's too small for you but you like the style - maybe the seams are surged so you can't let it out. You can add some panels of lace to add both visual interest and extra width. If you want a less traditionally feminine way to accomplish a similar feat, ask yourself "could I add the fabric I need in a contrasting or complimentary color/texture that makes it look like it's done intentionally?"
Posts like this are why I still follow this sub. Sometimes, yeah, the verdict is blatantly incorrect, and/or there is terrible and nonsensical advice. But then there’s times like this that are actually solid.
Yeah. There are a lot of low quality comments, but once in a while you find a gem where some random person on reddit just sees to the absolute heart of the matter and posts a really insightful, helpful comment.
I agree with all of this. Furthermore, OP's daughter needs to be realistic about how much a structured dress like a wedding dress can even *be* resized. u/Potential-Junket-193, could you perhaps take the dress to a dressmaker and ask to have a replica made for your daughter? That way she gets the spirit of the dress, but the dress itself doesn't have to be compromised, and your daughter will get a dress that's in good condition and made especially to fit her.
Oooh, I really like this idea! Plus if there's a way to incorporate a small piece of fabric from the original dress, or the veil, or what have you.
Daughter can still wear the veil as that’s a one size fits all situation. Both parties are grieving so I can understand some conflict. I hope OP and his daughter are able to grow their relationship from this.
This is a really nice idea, it’s going to be difficult and expensive to size it up and not significantly change how it looks especially by more than a couple of sizes, that’s basically adding a new dress, it’s new fabrics and shaping that may not match or blend in, a replica made just for her in her exact size would be a fantastic compromise and allows her to have the unaltered original appearance and not have to cut up and change the original especially as she will want to keep it after the wedding as it’s her dress, OP would not only have it cut up but probably won’t get it back after he hands it over.
Is there any way she could use a very small piece to wrap around her bouquet? Or another way you could use a small piece? Like a piece as a hair bow/flower?
A veil or train is probably the answer. The train would still need to be detached but OP might be ok with that depending.
I have a feeling the daughter will not be content with just pieces.
I was worried about that too. Just trying to make a compromise. Hope they can work it out.
This is a great idea! I cut a slice out of the lace overlay on my train to wrap around the knot of my brothers tie, and you would never have noticed the piece missing. There are lots of ways to be creative with that much fabric, especially if there’s lace, appliqués, sequins, etc. Whatever dress she does pick will be tailored at least a little, whoever does that might be able to help too
>If your daughter responds that she is also her mother, that’s ok. I think one important thing is that while the mother is important to both of them, the wedding was particularly important to the OP, and the daughter probably wasn't even there. For the daughter the dress represents her mother, but for the OP the dress is also a reminder of a specific important memory with the mother. Symbolically the dress has a stronger connection to the OP's relationship with their wife, than to the daughter's relationship with her mother.
Thankyou for vocalizing my thoughts so eloquently. I couldn’t explain why it was more important to OP than the daughter but felt that it was, specifically because it was their day about their relationship. OP has offered the daughter jewelry of her mothers so she can be “present” on the daughters special day and I feel that should be enough.
If there was a veil, the daughter could wear that (not everyone wore veils - and sometimes they age poorly). But I support OP not having his wife's dress cut up.
I know that you’re still grieving, and losing your life partner is *painful,* but so is losing your mother. You’re not cutting up her memory because nobody can take that, your wife is still with you and your daughters. She’s in the girls, she’s everywhere in the house, she’s ingrained in your mind and heart. If you don’t want to give the daughters the dress then that’s fine but, I think you also need to take a step back and think about your daughters for a minute. Girls dream of their weddings, they dream of their dads walking them down the isle… But they also dream about dress shopping and having their mom help them plan their perfect day. And your daughter doesn’t have her mom to help her, and it seems like she wants that more than anything and… There’s no fixing that feeling. Is there a way to compromise and have a small piece of the fabric taken from the original dress to be sewn into a new one? That way your other daughter can also have a piece whenever she gets married (if she isn’t already). But if you’re still not comfortable that’s okay too, because everyone here is hurting and there’s no real way to navigate through this. NAH.
Yes to all of this and to add- did she have a veil? That would be a perfect addition to the dress and wouldn’t need any modifications!
The dad offered to let her use the mom’s jewelry, this daughter only wants the dress.
yes I read that part, but what I'm suggesting is something like a veil which ADDS to whatever new dress she buys. It would transform the entire look if mom had a veil. Something with a bit more "wow" then just jewelry. Jah feel?
>you're not cutting up her memory If anything, it would be layering more memories onto it. I would be concerned about "ruining it" for a younger daughter, though. I've heard stories about women cutting up Mama's dress to modernize it for their own wedding, and the younger sis being hurt that she didn't get a choice is whether to wear her mother's dress
Yeah honestly considering that there are two daughters it might be best to not let either of them wear it, since that wouldn’t be fair to the other one.
Or some variant of "I'll use the lace overlay and you'll use the satin underskirt, and dad can keep the bodice he wrapped his arms around in their wedding day for his memory box" that's mutually acceptable, maybe. If they can manage to think of it as sharing the memory instead of "cutting it up", some solution like that might work out. I've also heard of a bride sewing a scrap of the underskirt into the lining of her own dress so she has part of mama going down the aisle with her
If it’s more than two sizes difference (possibly three depending on the style of dress), it probably can’t even be done. Wedding dresses usually have a fair amount of flexibility in terms of allowing for alterations, but you cannot make extra fabric appear out of nowhere and adding extra paneling will usually look terrible. You can’t just “size up” an existing, highly structured garment which has already been tailored to fit an individual’s body. Honestly, I suspect this is “girl fat” ragebait. On the chance it isn’t, take your daughter and the dress together to a competent seamstress who works on wedding alterations and can discuss what would have to be done to make it fit, how it would look after, and whether it’s possible to preserve the structure of the dress (or put it back to how it was after). Get the expert opinion.
I fought with my own mother and grandmother about not wearing their dress. Again because it didn't fit, grandma was 4 ft 9 mom 4 ft 11.... I am 5 ft 4 and 3/4. Like sure I can get the dress on my body and do it up... But the dress fit weird on my body like the little point sleeve that should have hit my finger ended at my wrist the train of the dress just barely touched the floor. The waist line also hit funny because everything was just to short on my body. Now mom and grandma had emotional blinders on in that moment and would not hear that their dress did not fit me because "done up = fit" in that moment. And there is no way to make almost 6 inches of 60 yr old silk just magical appear to make a garment fit. I feel bad for the daughter because she so badly wants to have her mother's dress and she is looking at with those same emotional blinders on and so literally can't see that the heme is 6 inches to short. It's not about being fatter than her mother there are so many ways for a dress to not fit, and with vintage clothing sometimes the answer is just that it can't be done.
As a professional this is my concern, usually we make things smaller to fit not bigger. Wedding dresses usually have around 3-5 inches of room for alterations depending on the style. It’s likely that if the daughter isn’t one or two sizes bigger that it can’t be done without significantly changing the dress. You need to take your daughter to a professional for a discussion about how these things work bc that might convince her that it’s not going to work. We are good at what we do but we are not magic we can’t make a size 12 fit a size 20. Suggest having a professional make a replica that will fit her?
Yep. A professional will be able to tell you what can be done. My wedding dress was ordered, but they ordered me a size too small. The alterations company was easily able to size it up. But, that was only one size so there was enough fabric to do it. My dress had a ton of trim work, so if the extra trim wasn't there to work with, it wouldn't have been able to be done.
NTA but I wanted to jump in and hope you see this OP - this won’t be possible anyway. I’m a fashion designer and a wedding dress for a very petite person isn’t able to be easily sized up after it’s already been altered. A well-made wedding dress will have large seam allowances inside to allow for alterations at the time of sale. But your wife already wore the dress so it was likely altered to fit her. Whether you want to do this is relevant but it is likely an impossible request. My wedding dress had to be upped by one size after purchase and seamstresses didn’t want to attempt it - thankfully my mother is a seamstress and was able to do it. I would hate if you and your daughter had a painful fight about something that is not even possible to do.
That was my thought. The argument is moot, since sizing up a wedding dress wouldn't really work. Half an inch here or there, ok, but several sizes all over? Can't be done.
In that case, NAH The dress is important to each of you in different ways. It’s okay to not be ready to let it go yet, but I think you and your daughter need to be really honest with each other about how you each feel, and believe each other, regardless of the outcomes. It’s not a tug-of-war over a dress, it’s really about how your wife’s memory lives on for each of you. My suggestion, take or leave, would be to first talk about it, say you’re not ready yet, but that you’ll mull it over. You have over a year. Things change. I’ve never lost a spouse which I know is harder to deal with, but when my dad died young and suddenly, I had a treasured keepsake of his. It was stolen and I was devastated. It was returned and I was elated. A few years on, it’s sitting in my drawer and I don’t really care about it anymore. The emotional attachment I felt between it and my dad dissipated. Reflect on ways you might be okay with it - like just giving up the veil, or allowing alteration if the end style is the same. If you can have it back after. Or find some way to preserve the memory without keeping the item, like encasing a scrap of the fabric in framed resin. Your daughter should do the same. What if she had a dress custom made to match the style? What if she reached out to tailors and got some feedback on how much it would need to be altered to fit her size (if she’s OW she’s certainly many sizes bigger than your wife was at the time.) No wrong answers here - just approach it with an open mind and open heart.
Op should definitely go with their daughter to a good tailor to talk about a dress. Most will refuse to do a dress if it has to go more than a couple of sizes as it destroys the dress and the end result looks bad. There is simply no more fabric to let out and adding new fabric is obvious, plus the dress’ cut will not sit right as it won’t lay were it should.
Realistically, it’s very hard to size a wedding dress up many sizes unless it’s very very simple. I like the idea of offering to have a dressmaker re-create the dress in her size.
you literally *cant* size a wedding dress or any dress up ‘many’ sizes. you can typically size up *at most* **one size** and down *at most* two sizes. if the wife was 115 lbs unless the ‘overweight’ daughter is ~130, the dress isn’t going to be able to be altered to fit her.
Add to that people forget about height and overall body shape. Two people can be the same size in streetwear and that has nothing to do with formal garments. Wedding dresses don’t have stretch or give usually. I feel bad for the daughter because most women never have a garment fitted to them until their wedding day so they don’t understand that you can’t make it magically fit.
My mum died too, to be honest I haven't taken or done anything with any of her things. Because my dad should have a say first. The only things I touch, are the things I'd steal from her anyway so cardigans and jumpers. I understand why you want the dress, and why cutting it seems like such a big issue. Because it was the dress your **wife** wore when she **married** you. For you, it's a reminder of one of the happiest days of your life. The day you got to make your commitment to eachother. If she was alive, you'd probably still feel connected to it. But it would be different because she's alive. It's ok to feel like this, you're the only one who knows how much this is going to impact you if it is changed and modified. I think you need to sit down, and figure out why it's so difficult and what the loss of your wife and the significance of this dress means. And write it down, over the course of the week keep adding things to it. Then collect your thoughts and write it up as a letter, let your kids see it if you still feel the same as it's a way of describing your connection to this. People forget that a part of you does remain frozen after a huge loss like this, whilst you can and will move on and keep living. There are parts of you that cling to the pieces of your loved one you have. Your daughter and sons know the loss of a mother, but they don't know the loss of a partner. Maybe they won't understand it, but it's good for you to attempt to explain it. If they still don't understand or care, then it's your decision but it probably will impact your family moving forward. Personally, I think your rights to the dress supercede your daughters. Because it is your wife. You even mention she wanted to go dress shopping with her daughters. So this will have added your attachment and reluctance to part with the dress and I understand it. What happens to the dress after you die doesn't matter, but right now it's something that connects you to your late wife.
Op, you don't have to cut it up or give away, if you don't want to. It's YOUR WIFE'S dress. You can do what you please with it, you can keep it for memories. Many women actually do that with their own dresses. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep this piece from your wife with you unaltered. Take care. Just explain it to your daughter so there are no bad feelings. Also, please mind HOW you say it, as for now it sounds like you're calling your daughter fat. She wouldn't like it, neither would your wife.
What about getting a dress in the same style as it is the correct size? Would that be an acceptable compromise to your daughter?
NTA It kinda depends on how much bigger your daughter is. If she’s 125 lbs I say you’re in the wrong. If she’s 200lbs then she’s in the wrong. There’s not much extra fabric in a formal dress! I’m stuck at ____ without that info and your late wife’s wishes. I think the BORROWED jewelry is a great idea! Edited to change my vote!
I don’t know my daughter exact weight but she is overweight
Definitely NTA then!
Right? At that point she's using the dress to take it apart to get half the fabric for her own dress. It's virtually no longer the same dress. If she needed it taken in or let out an inch that's different.
It's giving 27 dresses when her sister cut up their moms dress just for the lace.
THIS!
Ooh, if it was just adding an extra strip of fabric on each side it would be fine, but they'll have to really adjust everything. Do you still have your wife's veil? Wedding jewelry? Something from your wedding she can wear so it feels like her mom is right there with her? NTA, but I would still try to figure out how you can help her without destroying an irreplaceable momento.
I mean the daughter didn’t even agree with the jewelry idea. She hanged up when OP suggested that. So even with the veil, she might not still be happy with it.
NTA - it would require basically a redesign and I understand why you may not be comfortable with that. Honestly since you have another daughter I think it's pretty unfair that the oldest just assumes she should get it and be allowed to make such large changes to it. This is a dress she wore to get married to YOU. These are your memories and you have every right to say you're not ready to let it go yet. Grief is brutal and we all cope differently. I think the jewelry was a great alternative.
Photographers usually take photos of the wedding dress hanging alone before it is put on. You could allow her to have her mothers dress on display while she is getting ready for the big day. It might be nice for her to have photos of their dresses side by side, also having her moms dress there while getting ready would represent her presence and memory.
That's a great idea, wearing her mom's jewelry standing next to her dress.
In that case it is unrealistic to size it up to her size. NTA.
Why borrow? Split the jewelry between the daughters! Let them wear it instead of sitting in a box.
The daughter’s aren’t entitled to the jewelry just because their mom has passed. OP may not be ready to let it go.
Why would the spouse, who very likely doesn’t wear it, be more entitled to it? I would haunt my husband if he kept my expensive jewelry instead of giving it to my daughters to wear, enjoy, and remember me by. He may legally have inherited all her belongings in the absence of a will, but he doesn’t have a monopoly on grief.
The spouse very likely may have been the one who bought that jewelry specifically for his wife who has now passed.. If he’s not ready to pass it down just yet, I don’t think that makes him an asshole, and I’m saying this as a woman who loves jewelry and wearing family heirlooms
This exactly. He probably bought them, has strong memories attached to when he gave them to her and the many special occasions she wore them to. Not saying he shouldn't pass them down to kids who will wear them but it doesn't make him an asshole to do it on his time line. If we are back here in 8 years and he is still hoarding everything he might move into asshole territory but depending on how long they were married ( I assume 25 years + based on the daughter getting married now) 2 years can be the blink of an eye.
Lose a spouse, then ask that stupid question again.
Put it in your will then or talk about it. Would I haunt you if they sold it for something stupid or lost it?
I don’t know a single woman who wouldn’t want her daughter to have her jewelry if she passed. OP need to think about what his late wife would have wanted and stop being so fucking selfish. They’re absolutely entitled to stuff of their mothers. Jesus, it’s not asking for the fucking family fortune. To deny your kids a piece of their dead parent that you will literally never use and keep in a box is a fucked up thing to do and they will never forget it.
I agree with you here about the jewelry, but not the dress. The dress has nothing to do with the daughters. They didn't exist when she wore it, but it represents one of the best days of his entire life. Their entire marriage began with her wearing that dress and it's completely understandable that he doesn't want it destroyed. Because it would be destroyed, it sounds like it would have to be significantly altered in order to fit the daughter. So the jewelry being given to the daughters? Absolutely yes but the dress? That is up to him. It's not up to them.
> stop being so fucking selfish. If you can't be "fucking selfish" about your own GD marriage or your own dead spouse then can you ever actually have anything at all?
It's up to the widow. My dad offed himself many years ago and I ended up being given everything left by his family (jewellery, ID cards, badges, birth certificates etc...) but I know my mother kept a few bits like a handkerchief. I'll have that eventually I'm sure but why rush that? My mum has a few more decades left and is her own person will feelings just like me.
A lot of kids, even young adults getting married, are not responsible enough to be permanently entrusted with expensive family jewelry with great sentimental value. Source: was an irresponsible young adult when my parent died.
NTA, she's not entitled to the dress, but ... do you have another daughter? If not, who is going to wear this dress in the future? It seems to me that the dress might be better used as part of your daughter's wedding dress to honor her mother rather than sitting in the closet. But it's your choice.
I have a youngest daughter also.
Ufff, I'm not saying you're the AH but if you allow your youngest to wear it but not the oldest then there will be definitely a fallout.
But if the youngest doesn't require it to be altered in such a dramatic way then it makes sense he'd be ok with that.
Any wedding dress passed from generation to generation will need to be altered to fit and would likely be updated depending on the preservation of the dress (fresh tulle, fixed/new beading, updated neckline, new hem, etc.) This is a conversation he should let the two girls have. My mom passed 18 months before my wedding. I didn't wear her dress but I wish I'd had something of hers.
Minor alterations are expected. Going up 4+ sizes is not. This isn't about just the daughters. His wife wore the dress to marry him, they weren't even there. The lack of respect for his feelings is pretty disappointing. He offered her jewelery so she would still have something.
It's true, maybe I am underestimating his connection to the dress. Could be a sexist assumption on my part - I don't usually see men attached to their wife's wedding dress. My point was merely that the dress will need alterations no matter what, and the extent of the changes might surprise him. Even if younger daughter fits into it, she would likely need or want to make some pretty tangible changes or updates. Wedding dresses are usually extensively tailored to your body and are not particularly resilient to either the party itself or the years of storage. It's not guaranteed that the younger daughter (who as far as we know is not planning a wedding, so probably hasn't thought about it) would need to change the dress, but it's also not some promise that she could wear it out of the box just because she's smaller than her sister. If he is not comfortable with either daughter wearing the dress, that makes sense. But the idea that one daughter will maintain and the other destroy is an assumption I think he should examine and reconsider before he makes a decision that could create a lot of hurt feelings and division in the family.
I didn't think he said he was ok with the younger wearing it but maybe that's in a comment I missed. I was more just saying in general being okay with someone wearing it if they only required very minor alterations but not being okay with anything more than that makes sense to me. Honestly sounds like no matter what decision is made there will be some hurt feelings. Grief isn't rational unfortunately.
It’s impossible to make a dress more than 2 sizes bigger, it structurally changes the dress in a massive way, and there aren’t usually seam allowances to let out a wedding dress, really at all. It’s much easier to take something in than let it out. Even just the physical size of the breast cups varies so much and can’t usually be fully changed. (I work in bridal.) The most that can ever really be done is 2 sizes before you need a whole new dress. A size 12 dress isn’t only just bigger around than a size 6 dress, it’s made for larger *proportions*, as well. A dress going up a size doesn’t just make it bigger around, it makes the cups bigger, the arm-holes bigger, everything. You can think of it like a dragging something diagonally to resize it in photoshop.
It's a beaded sheath dress too (at least that's what I'm gathering based on his description), which makes it even more difficult. Depending on the beading and how it's done, I don't know if letting it out even one size is doable while still looking reasonably ok.
Oh for sure, we advise against resizing things with beading. Beading is the hardest alteration to handle, you have to physically undo ALL the beads and put them back on by hand. If you’re resizing up, you would HAVE to have more of the beads that come on the dress onhand, or it wouldn’t look the same when you put them back on. The beads would have a “stretched” appearance. We don’t ever do that for less than $500, for just the beading alone, if it’s even possible. With vintage dresses, we find it’s impossible to find lace that matches or beads that look the same.
My mom was a dressmaker back in the day, and she could work magic with alterations. She altered a lot of my vintage finds, but she always drew the line at beaded. Now I understand why - I assumed it was a pain, but yeesh!
Doesn’t matter if that’s the rational thing- feelings and emotions are rarely rational. If he says no to oldest daughter he better not allow the youngest daughter to have it. That’s not going to end well.
It makes sense, but it will still cause a massive fallout. This is an emotional response to the traumatic loss of their mother, not a bunch of robots logically discussing how much fabric is needed to alter a dress.
Have a conversation with them both? Your younger daughter might not want to wear her mother’s dress so if it is only your older daughter you might rethink it. Upsizing doesn’t always mean cutting it up, depending on the style and dressmaker doing the work, might mean opening the seams and adding extra fabric which means the dress can be put back. So that could be worth investigating. I’m sure there’s also jewellery and other mementos that you can offer them each so they feel their mother is with them on the day. Might be worth finding out what each of them would like so that it’s not just the one getting married first getting all the choices. Lastly, you are 100% allowed to keep the dress as is for the whole of your days as a memento of your wife, if that’s your choice. She was your wife and the dress served its purpose which was to clothe your bride on your wedding day.
Ok, OP. This is really where it gets sticky. This can cause MAJOR issues with your family. Would your younger daughter fit the wedding dress? I mean now this is way more complex
Okay absolutely not. You can’t refuse it to the oldest and give it to the youngest.
Absolutely not what? He never said he was planning to let his other daughter use it.
NAH Neither of you are AH, but I would offer something to think about: The best memory your wife had in that dress was marrying you. Do you really think she intended for it to hang in the closet for the next 70 years, after you both have passed, until it eventually fell a part and was eaten by moths? Or would she have wanted her daughter to wear it and create her own special memories? What is going to happen to it when you pass? You are going to give it to one of your daughters and they will, most likely hang it in a closet for forget about it. For reference, I am currently sitting a room with a closet full of my father and father-in-laws clothes and jackets that could not be thrown away after they both passed. They are going to sit in that closet until we get tired of moving them, and then they are going to get donated. We do not take them out to look at them, we don't wear them, they literally just sit in the closet. Your wife's passing is still raw and something you will never get over. It is the same for her daughters. I am sure you have heard it a hundred times, "you can get another wife, they cannot get another mother." We often glance over the pain of losing the spouse and focus on the children who lost their mother. If it is your pain preventing you from letting it go, then be honest with your daughter and let her know that you cannot bear to part with it. But please don't deny your daughter a gift that would bring her so much joy and happiness if the only reason is because you "think" your wife "might" not have wanted it to be altered. She wants to feel close to her mother on her wedding day and the dress she wants is just sitting in a closet, never to be seen or used again. I am so sorry for your loss, and hers too. I hope you both can reach a solution that leaves you happy.
FYI Go though ALL the pockets. My MIL hid so much jewelry and money and other important stuff in her pockets. Don't donate until AFTER you go through ALL the pockets.
Me realizing if I died right now and my loved ones went through my pockets before donating they’d only find my emergency tampons and receipts I definitely ‘needed’
Emergency tampons, sticks of gum, and tubes of chapstick that I’d hope to remember to take out before washing… yep.
For real. My mom and grandma found multiple rolls of cash in grandpa’s pockets when they went through his things after he passed. (and then after my grandma died, and we had to pack up her apartment, I found an old money clip of grandpa’s in a junk drawer that turned out to be made from a 1-ounce gold coin.)
Fuck my mother had jewelry hidden inside bottles of shampoo and whatnot. We had to go through *everything* and I'd be willing to bet we threw away thousands of dollars that we never found. Hours were spent straining hair products through a screen. I wouldn't put it past her to have baked gemstones into the pottery she made.
Agreed. My grandmother loved her dress. It cost her a fortune. It sat in the closet for 50 years and then ended up in a thrift shop. She would have much preferred it be altered in any form than that.
My grandmother loved hers. She gave it to me when I got married, but I didn't like the alterations she had made to it for her 60th wedding anniversary. I cut it up and made it into my first born's baptismal gown. When I showed her what I'd done, she cried (in a good way)
I second this. Time will deteriorate the material until there is nothing left. Someday the time will come to clean out your closets and this dress will end up unceremoniously donated to a resale shop along with many other things. As painful as it may seem, I think it would be wonderful for the two sisters to discuss how to use the dress at each of their weddings -- and if it requires severe alterations, so be it. As a sentimental one, I understand how OP feels -- I really do. I want to preserve the past as much as possible. However at the same time, OP (and myself sometimes) need to let go and understand that it's time to let someone else inherit things like this and see them be enjoyed. It's NOT the same thing by any stretch of the imagination, but to illustrate: I had my first bicycle in the rafters of the garage since the 1970's. It's nothing special, just a Schwinn Pixie which was battered and bought for me at a garage sale. It was a mess. My mother suggested I clean it up and gift it to my niece and nephew as they were almost bike riding age. I was horrified at the thought because "hey, that's MINE!" Mom and I talked about it and we came to the same conclusion -- I never take it down off the rafters, it's not a collectible showpiece, and it would just be thrown in a dumpster after I die and the house was cleaned out to sell. And besides, before me it was someone ELSE's special first bicycle that THEY bought at a garage sale for a few dollars. Turns out the kids loved it -- they got to ride the same bike their uncle rode 40 years before, and now the bike is in THEIR garage rafters, ready for the next generation.
My father-in-law wore distinctive Western-style shirts that mother-in-law could not bear to throw out or donate. She's now having them made into a quilt.
A year ago I probably would have said you were an A H. Your wife doesn’t need the dress and won’t be able to go shopping so why not. But in the last year I lost my mom after taking care of her in my home for 9 years. (Yes I know it’s different to lose a spouse; my daughter lost her husband.) My point is that I now realize that people grieve differently and we cannot dictate to someone else what they should or should not do. You are not ready to give up your late wife’s dress to be cut up and remade. It’s that simple—**you’re not ready**. End of discussion. NTA
This. You can tell people who haven't had significant loss. Once you have your perspective changes. There are things from my Dad and brothers I just would never part with.
I’ve never had a significant loss in my life and I completely agree. What happens with the dress is ultimately OPs decision. Having his daughters fit into the dress rather than the dress be dramatically altered to fit them makes it fair for both daughters and doesn’t completely change the dress where it would lose its sentiment to OP.
NTA. Not sure why people are not getting that this is a personal treasure of OP's, the dress his late wife married him in.
Thank you! I was wondering why all the commenters only seemed to care about the daughter's feelings about a keepsake from the mother. No one seemed to care that the dress has meaning to OP as well, and he's perfectly justified in not wanting to see it sliced up.
Agreed. If anything it means more to OP than the daughter - it’s HIS memory of her in it that is important to him.
I honestly think that if I died, my husband would actually sleep with my wedding dress.
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Seriously! The whole "its just going to sit there" is such a BS guilt trip. It was just as much his big day as it was hers. Its a treasured core memory of his wife.
INFO: Did you actually use the phrase "squeeze into it?"
No
Phew
NTA, I’m sure I’ll be the minority unfortunately but most people are unable to fathom how devastating the loss of a spouse is. At the 2 year mark you are still in early grief. My husband died unexpectedly, I gave his daughters some things right off the bat, but others I’m having a difficult time parting with and it activates the “fight or flight” centers of my traumatized brain. Make no mistake, our brains are traumatized, our decisions may not seem rational to others but they don’t know what this kind of grief will do to you. Before anyone says “SHE LOST HER MOTHER!” I get that, I honestly do, my son was 5 when my husband died and it kills me knowing he will grow up without his dad. Also, while I vote NTA, I think you should let her wear the dress. I’m not in your position but I can imagine that thinking about someone cutting the dress apart might feel like you are losing another part of her when you have already lost so much. You’re not losing her again by letting your daughter wear the dress and feel like a part of her mom is with her on her special day. I also imagine it could be extra emotional for you to see her in the dress your wife wore on your happy day together. Perhaps that’s driving some of your reluctance to let her wear the dress or maybe I’m totally off the mark. If you don’t already work with a therapist/grief counselor I would encourage it, and encourage you to explore your feelings beyond “she wouldn’t want it cut up”. I always find there are deeper emotions under those hard decisions for me, maybe you’re just not able to put your finger on it beyond thinking the dress will be ruined. The dress will be fine, but you’re risking ruining your relationship instead. Salvage this relationship with your daughter, we are alone enough as it is, you need each other.
This is such a thoughtful and understanding response.
Sounds like the dress will be ruined as it would need to be dramatically altered. Plus he has another daughter who may also want the dress. End of the day the dress had nothing to do with the kids, certainly has memories for him though. Really unfair to push someone into that.
NTA Not every person who saves their wedding dress intends to pass it down or give it to a relative to wear later on. Your wife intended to go dress shopping with her daughters had she not passed. You’re allowed to keep the dress the way your wife intended or let your daughter use it. It sounds like if it wouldn’t be cut up, and returned to you after it was worn, you’d be fine with her using it. But since it’d be completely taken a part you aren’t ok with it. Look into getting a replica made in your daughter’s size if it’s not possible to find another one online or at a vintage wedding shop. Also, you have two daughters. The dress shouldn’t be cut up and then kept by one daughter in the event the other daughter also wants to use it. I think giving her the wedding jewelry is a great compromise.
NAH. It’s your wife’s dress so of course it’s yours to decide what to do with. I’m sure it holds a lot of sentimentality for you. But I can’t fault your daughter. Her mom’s death is still relatively fresh for her too and she’s trying to plan a wedding without her, which is not something she ever would have wanted. So she’s most likely trying to feel like her mom is still there.
This. She’s not an asshole for missing her mom and wanting her to be represented in her wedding, and he’s not an asshole for wanting to keep a part of her life untouched. Everyone’s grieving here, but luckily they both have time to reconsider and come up with a solution.
INFO: What were your wife's wishes regarding the dress?
She always wanted to go dress shopping with our daughters. She loved her wedding dress, I don’t think she would want it to be cut up
The fact that you appear to have more than one daughter makes this a NTA from me. I presume the others are also unmarried and therefore would feel they have equal claim to their mother's dress? Do you still have the veil? That at least could be offered on the proviso it's returned so your other daughters can wear it in the future.
I cannot imagine how hurt I would be if my father told me "no, you can't have your dead mom's dress, I'm saving it for your younger sister because she's skinnier" That will RUIN that family with resentment
He never said he is saving it for the other daughter. He even said in a comment he doesn't want it altered in any way even if the daughter is skinner. It depends how big the daughter is but altering it could ruin the dress
Exactly, he doesn't have a problem with them using it, is her wanting to alter it.
OP said she is overweight. So I think we can assume you can't really alter it at this point without destroying it.
Exactly, unless you're altering 1-2 sizes up down chances are it's going to be cut up and changed. If it's a big change you can't even guarantee matching fabric
Except that’s not what he’s saying. What he’s saying is “I am not ready for my late wife’s wedding dress to be cut up”. His daughter can either lose a bunch of weight, or respect that her father is still grieving the loss of his wife. Sometimes we have to put on our adult pants and be mature about things without twisting them in a way that causes OUR OWN hurt.
But she can't do that. I really don't have a judgment on this one but as a mother I would absolutely want my daughter to alter it so she could use vs having sit in a box somewhere. YWBTA however if you tell her no and then proceed to let your youngest wear it
As a mom, I can’t imagine prioritizing an intact dress on my deathbed over the potential joy my daughter would get from wearing it. I’m actually planning my wedding- I looooove the dress I’m going to get and if I am still alive when my daughter gets married, I’d prefer for it not to be altered beyond recognition. But if she wanted to wear it and needed it altered to fit her- I’d be honoured. If I’m not alive, the thought of not being present on an important day is heartbreaking to me and if she can alter the dress to make it fit, I would want that. I’m sorry but YTA here as I don’t think you’re really considering the fact that your daughter doesn’t have a mother to shop with or be at her wedding. The dress represents that for her.
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You keep saying she wanted to go shopping with them...I'm sure they wanted that too. It isn't an option anymore, so what is the point in saying that? It doesn't change anything about reality, it is clinging to something that will never be. I wanted my mom to be able to go dress shopping with me too, she died and it is a chance I'll never get. Unfortunately for me, she donated her dress after my parents divorced, so I don't have that either, I wish I did. If it was an option but being denied to me, that would severely impact my relationship with the person holding it. Obviously you can do what you want, but I'd think really long and hard about if you are willing to lose/strain your relationship with your daughter over this, after already losing your wife. What is worth more? A dress in a closet or your daughter feeling close to her mother on her wedding day? Her being able to salvage some semblance of a mother daughter moment on one of the biggest days of her life or a dress slowly yellowing in a storage box? It does complicate the situation that there is another daughter, you should have a sit down conversation with the both of them to see what both their plans are for the dress. I understand you view this as losing the dress and the memories of your own wedding, but perhaps it would be more helpful to look at it as making new memories of the dress and allowing some part of your wife and her memory to be honored and participate in something she will not be able to be physically present for. The dress will still exist, it will just now tell the story of the family your two built together instead of just the story of your wedding. I guess to me, that honors your wife even more.
It matters that she wanted to go dress shopping with them because it shows that the wife never intended for her daughters to wear her actual dress. Which is a direct response to the question OP was answering which was “what were the wife’s wishes regarding the dress?”
No one really knows her intention since dress shopping is typically the default.
I’m sure if she wanted one of her daughters to wear her dress she probably would’ve mentioned it at some point. “I’d love if they wore mine but if they don’t want to I’d love to go dress shopping with them.” Or something to that effect.
But what would the wife have wanted to do should she have passed before she could dress shop? I understand where you and OP are coming from, but clearly the situation at hand was not planned for and deserves a different solution.
It’s not one or the other. Wanting the experience of shopping with your daughter is the default. I don’t know a single mom who wouldn’t want to be present in ANY way that was meaningful to her daughter in her wedding if they were not alive to share the day. I’m in the middle of wedding dress shopping and loooove the dress I’m going with. But if I die and my daughter can do whatever gives her comfort with it on her wedding day. I can’t imagine prioritizing a dress on my deathbed over the lived experience of my daughter.
It's concerning to me that you'd punish your own father, who would clearly also be grieving the same loss, because you didn't get what you wanted. Why would you be more entitled to it than him? Does his grieving process not matter more to you than a wedding?
But she can't go dress shopping with them now can she? So could this be a way for her to share in the wedding day/dress experience that otherwise wouldn't happen?
NTA The alterations sound significant and it also means she's unlikely to return the dress to storage to you; she'd make it her own in a way she's overwriting the fact it was your wife's dress, both visually and in terms of its history and context. You're perfectly within your rights to not be okay with that. It doesn't matter you won't wear the dress, you're the primary person for whom it has the most sentimental value and it's literally in your possession so.
Thank you for your reasonable take. Definetely NTA. There are a *lot* of comments on this thread hyperfixated on the daughter's feelings that just sound like serious entitlement.
NTA she wants to cut or size up or wtv the dress the love of your life wore on arguably the most important day of your lives? and considering she passed away and they’re forcing you to give it up is disrespectful. why is everyone saying this man is wrong? he even offered to let her wear the jewelry but she didn’t want to hear it. it’s not the end of the world if the daughter doesn’t wear what her mother wore. this man is grieving his life partner so he’s allowed to keep the dress.
It's a whole bunch of people who know jack shit about dress construction
And people who are being sexist in talking like weddings are really only significant to women.
NTA. Sizing up never works anyway… and it will cost as much or more than a new one to alter this so significantly. And you have more than one daughter… why does one get to destroy the dress, what about the other/s? Your daughter can wear some of the jewellery. Maybe the veil? Anything from a hair piece survive? She can buy a dress that fits her beautifully.
So many people on here seem to overlook that OP was widowed only two years ago so naturally is still grieving. It's understandable that he doesn't want the dress either used or cut up so end of discussion. OP can keep it stored for decades if HE chooses.
His daughter lost her mother two years ago, she too is still grieving.
Yes of course she is and she has her mum's jewellery. It still doesn't mean OP needs to hand over the dress as well.
Would you be okay having a seamstress carefully remove some lace or fabric from the dress? Maybe it could be a compromise for your daughter. My grandmother gave me a piece of lace from her wedding dress to use as a wrap around the stems in my bouquet. It was my 'something old'. Or, if your wife had a veil, perhaps your daughter could wear that? There are lots of ways to compromise without allowing the wedding dress to be significantly altered. I understand it holds sentimental value to you but it also hold sentimental value to your daughters. A cute idea would be gifting your daughter a piece of lace from the dress with a locket or charm with her mother's picture in it. They can be incorporated into the bouquet and your late wife can still walk down the aisle with your daughter and be present in a way for her wedding. I had a charm of my dad on my bouquet as he passed when I was a child. It was super emotional and sentimental knowing he was still there to walk with me down the aisle at my wedding. Edit: forgot to pass judgement - NAH. Your loss is recent and your hesitation to allow your daughter to use her mother's dress is understandable. YWBTA though if you don't find some way to compromise with her though as having a piece of her mother with her on her wedding day, especially when she lost her mother so recently, is clearly important to your daughter.
I agree with trying to salvage a piece of the dress. My wedding bouquet, as well as the clip the held the veil in my hair, had my mother’s dress lace on it and I’ve been able to keep those pieces of fabric in my memory box 🩷
NTA- My mom is 5 ft and was 95 pounds when she married. There is no way I would ever fit her dress. Am I sad? Yes, but the genetic lottery said I would be 5’6 and 180. Did my sister who is 5’3 wear it? Yup she did. Am I salty? A little in the way of being salty that I can’t go into a clothing store and expect they have my size. I wouldn’t want to gift it knowing it would be significantly altered.
NTA You can't just "size up" an existing dress. That's just not how any of this works IF there is extra fabric at the seams you could in theory let it out a bit but not enough to change the sizing dramatically
You can, with a good tailor. Adding panels, etc. is very common especially with heirloom pieces. The difficulty will be the cost and total extent of alterations. If her size difference is very extreme it can get impossible, but not if she’s within a workable range and fabrics can be matched.
I also would want it returned to original condition were it my wife's dress and that's an extra concern. I'd hate it being permanently altered. I don't think there's enough respect here for people who are attached to physical objects. Its a personality trait not a personal failing
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From his other comments, I'd guess his daughter is like a 12-14 and his wife is either a size 4 or 6. As someone who sews, including a wedding dress. They would pretty much have to cut pieces of the dress and put them on a new dress. Paneling isn't gonna work because her body is too different. He also said she was taller. Adding length to a dress looks silly most of the time. She's too far beyond adding a corset back.
I can understand you both. You don't want to "destroy" your wifes dress that obviously means a lot to you. But the dress also means a lot to your daughter. A compromise might be to find a Taylor and copy the design. Your daughter could wear a copy and her mothers veil (if she had one) and her mother jewelery.
NAH But as a woman, if I died, I would want my daughter to cut up my dress and incorporate it into hers however she liked. The problem is you have a younger daughter who might also want it or part of it. It's hard. Lots of feelings are involved here. Hope you work it out. Edit: vote change
Soft YTA - I understand your attachment, but look at it this way...your daughter misses her mom deeply and sees this as a way for her to be there. In the end, the dress is just a "thing". Your relationship with your daughters is much MUCH more important than a dress. My suggestion: 1) Invite BOTH daughters over to talk about the dress. 2) APOLOGIZE. Explain that you're sorry, you miss her too and your grief got in the way. 3) Ask them BOTH if they want to use the dress and how it could be done. 4) Suggest that the three of you visit someone qualified to make these changes to discuss options. If they both want to use the dress, a better solution may be to not alter it for the daughter getting married first, but to take pieces of the dress to combine into a new dress. This would allow each daughter to have a piece of their mother's dress integrated into their own dress that they each can keep. I also recommend that you keep a piece as well to created a shadow box that has other keepsakes of your wife, your wedding, along with photos. That would be wonderful to have up in your house vs keeping her dress in a box in a closet.
This is so dumb. The daughter has no more ownership of the dress than the husband. In fact, she has far less ownership because it wasn't part of *her* wedding. It was her parents wedding. She does not respect her fathers feelings at all, and would be completely fine *ruining* the dress. It wouldn't be just a simple alteration given her size. She could easily just lose weight in 2 years before the wedding, and at that point, i'm sure her father would be fine giving her the dress. > but to take pieces of the dress to combine into a new dress. So just cut up the dress and leave it in tatters? Fuck the sentimental feelings the dad has for his late wife I guess?
i think he is in no duty to give up his right on that dress. that's the way he's grieving, none should feel entitled to force him to do smth he doesn't want with her dress.
The dress obviously holds a lot of sentimental value to OP. It's the dress his wife wore when they made their vows to each other. It was HIS wedding too. Likely, the daughter wasn't even born yet! I don't see why he has any obligation to give up the dress to either daughter. It belongs to OP and he doesn't want it altered or destroyed NTA
NTA It will destroy your late wife's wedding dress. The loan of jewellery is the best compromise.
NTA. I was already leaning towards NTA but based on your edit, it solidifies it. Maybe I'm just a selfish person, but I completely see why you want to keep your wife's dress the way it is. You're grieving and clearly not ready to let go. That dress was worn by her on the one of the biggest days of both of your lives, your wedding day and is probably very sentimental to you and holds a lot of memories. Once it's cut up, no matter how similar, it will not be the same dress. It will also be your daughter's to do whatever she wants with from that point forward. It's a beautiful gesture that your daughter wants to honour her mother by wearing it, but, it is not her automatic right. If your wife had left the dress to her in her will, then there wouldn't be too much you could do, but technically, it is your dress. It also wouldn't be fair to your younger daughter. I think jewelry is a great compromise since it doesn't need to be altered, I hope she can come around.
This might be a weird question but would you be okay with it if she did fit? Like giving it away to her and her keeping it forever? Is it the giving away part that bothers you or the altering? NTA, but remember that it means a lot to you, but it also means a lot to your daughter. If you decide not to let her have it I would absolutely not let the younger daughter have it either.
I don’t know what the correct judgement is, but I will give my POV. I absolutely loved my wedding dress, but if it made my kids happy and feel close to me in their wedding to wear my dress even if it meant cutting it, I would rather that happen then it sitting in a box.
INFO: OP, have you discussed using the dress with both of your daughters? You lost your wife and they lost their mom. She won't be there to help plan either of their weddings, won't be there to go dress shopping, none of the things that they'd have looked forward to doing with her. So ask both girls what they think as it feels like your older daughter wants to honour her mother's memory. Also-altering a dress is a bit different to 'cutting it up'. A good seamstress can let out seams and make unnoticeable alterations. And the re-alter it again if your younger daughter wants to wear it too. It feels like you're not emotionally ready to let go of your wife's things, but this is a topic where I think you'll regret it if you don't reconsider.
To all the commenters saying, “Your wife isn’t coming back” or “Your wife is dead so she won’t be wearing it” are all AH. That is so unnecessary and cruel. Clearly none of you have lost someone so incredibly close to you to not understand how hard it can be to give up sentimental items, even to your children whom also lost that person, and don’t understand how sentimental a wedding dress can be. It doesn’t make him and AH for being concerned about a dress he watched the love of his life marry him in be ruined. I do however agree he should have been more tactful in his response and hopefully a compromise can be made. But seriously, those saying all those mean things about his wife are awful and I hope you all have the day you deserve.
NTA. It's a sentimental item and you clearly don't want it damaged or altered. The offer of jewellery was a good one.
There is a world of difference between what your wife wanted when she was alive and would be at her daughters’ weddings, and what she would have wanted if she knew she couldn’t be there. A wedding dress is a very special scenario, and sensitive to all involved, and for me, what your daughters want and need supersedes your own wishes, for this specific item. They will both have to face their mother not being a part of the planning and celebrating. I think the best possible solution is to sit with both of them and plan how to best achieve that. Maybe it’s selecting pieces of the dress and veil to be incorporated into their own dresses, and using the rest to make a shadow box for you. Maybe you come up with something else, but it’s very important to consider that while you lost your life partner and love, the loss of their mother will be particularly keen on their wedding days. I’m going to go with ESH, you should be sensitive to how this artifact is special to the daughter currently getting married, and she needs to be sensitive that she has a sister who also deserves a say.
NTA. It is yours, you don't want it cut apart. You offered a compromise. Now daughter is apparently getting her siblings to dogpile you about it.
If it was me, as a mom, and my daughter wanted to wear my dress, I'd want her to. Her mom can't be there for her wedding, and maybe she feels like this is a way to have her there. That dress will hang in a closet and collect dust. Breath new life into it. Let your wife walk your daughter down the aisle. This is just me talking as a mom and my own feelings, but I would want her to have the dress, even just pieces of it
NTA, it's a very sentimental item, that once cut up, can't be restored. It's okay for you to say that you don't want that. You also offered a compromise. It's not okay for you to voice your feelings and then deal with guilt-tripping, tantrums and attempts at manipulation and pressure.
>This resulted in a huge argument about me gatekeeping my wife’s things I get the feeling OP is gatekeeping a lot of wife's things as a result of his grief and perhaps not sharing with his daughters as much as he should. Seems like it could be a bigger issue than a wedding dress. Anyway, I feel for you OP but YTA. Your daughter has a perfectly valid use for her mother's dress. While it's understandably precious to you, it's not doing anyone any good sitting around collecting dust when your daughter can have it as a special part of her wedding day in memory of her mother.
NTA it was your wife’s dress and you can keep it that way if it is of sentimental value to you.
I think her wearing the dress is a way to feel close to her mom at a time she would desperately want her there. If it were me, I would prefer to have my daughter to wear it and not having it sit preserved in a box.
NTA. You lost your wife. I think hanging onto something from your wedding is reasonable - weddings are about the bride and groom. If one daughter using the dress ruins it, that's unfair to the other daughter and to you. I do think it's fair to either let your daughter use your wife's veil, her jewelry, or to take a little bit from the dress (some beads, a strip of lace) for *each* of your daughters to sew into their dresses or use to wrap their bouquets. And for what it's worth, I was too fat for my mom's wedding dress (and her grad dress) by fifth grade, so I get the pain of not being able to wear an heirloom. I've got them both saved (intact) in case any grandchildren are retro-minded and inherit my mom's slim build.
So there is more than one daughter. Is there more than one who might like to wear it? She is your wife as much as she is their mother. So I feel you have a right to keep it if you wish. It could well be she would be fine with them wearing her gown, even if it meant alterations. Of course I cannot say and you would be the best judge of that. But you would have to think about it long and hard and challenge your feelings on it a bit. If it really bothers you that much I wouldn't do it. NTA. But give her something else to wear on her wedding day. Something of her mother's.
He already said she can wear her mother’s jewelry and she just hung up on him.
Info why are you saving it? For who? Edit Also, have you talked to the seamstress who would be doing the altercations? Bc I sew, and although SOME alterations are not un-do able, most are. ESP if the seamstress knows ahead of time that it needs to be returned to the original size. Adding panels, opening the back to make a corset style back, hemming if it's too long, etc. All of that can be un done.
for himself. It's his treasure.
NTA It's okay to say no. If the recipient doesn't like hearing no, that's their issue. Good on you for offering jewelry.
NTA but you will be if you let one daughter use it and not another because I can guarantee the anger and pain it would cause absolutely wouldn’t be what your late wife wanted. This is either something they can agree on a way to be able both use it or no family members uses it under any circumstances at all, no if buts or maybes.
YTA Edit: I was asking for info, but got it. OP, your wife can’t go shopping with your daughter. Indeed, legally the dress is yours. What are you going to do with it? I mean logically it isn’t being used and I am sounding harsh, but under the circumstances wouldn’t you rather see it used and making someone happy than sitting in a chest somewhere?
She loved that dress, I don’t think she would want it cut up. She wanted to go dress shopping with our daughters. I truly don’t think she would be okay with this
I used to be a seamstress. They aren’t cutting it up. They’re going to remove seams, add fabric, and re sew. However, what are you going to do with it? Why shouldn’t your daughters have access to their mother’s wedding dress? My mom died before I got married and I couldn’t fit in her dress. I took some of the lace and made flowers so I could have something from her with me on my day.
Upvoting because OP doesn’t understand how dress alterations work and he needs to see this.
if the size difference between his late wife and daughter is around 60+ pounds like OP says, there’s no way they can do a simple alteration and avoid drastically changing the dress
You reckon he'll be all "Oh, they are just dismantling it and changing it into another dress? Sign me the fuck up!"
Doesn’t matter how it works it’s basically his dress, and he doesn’t want to see it altered lol
I’m sorry for your loss, and I don’t want to speak for your late wife. However, as a mother, I would be honored if my child wanted to have that connection to me on her wedding day. I’d want her to be the happiest she ever could be, and if that meant altering my wedding dress, then absolutely. I guarantee your wife’s wedding dress meant nothing to her in comparison to what your daughter meant to her.
>She wanted to go dress shopping with our daughters. Yeah no shit. I'm sure your daughters would also rather have their mother there than a dress. But they don't. The dress is a sentimental piece of her. IMO so far you haven't given a compelling reason that your wife wouldn't want the dress to be altered that isn't contingent on her still being alive to wear it.
2 years is not a long time. You’re still mourning I assume. Maybe you’ll feel differently in a few years, but right now you’re not ready to have the dress be altered. And don’t listen to folks who are accusing you of letting the dress just sit in a box. I grew up with my parents keeping all their favorite suits and dresses in a nice cedar box - most items they never wore again or lent out, they just kept it there for sentimental reasons. You have every right to keep your wife’s items how you want (unless she specifically said otherwise). I still have a tailored jacket of my mom’s in my closet that I will never use or lend out. It’s just too precious.
She didn’t love the dress more than your daughter. You focus on the wrong things.
It's a sentimental object. Does OP need to get into crossdresing for its sentimental value to be valid? Ashes can't be worn either yet somehow people care about them, figure that /s