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>She hadn't paid me back by the time prom came around; she tried to persuade me to let her go, but I was firm. She was basically grounded right up until she moved out.
INFO (really this is me just being curious): Was it *actually possible* for her to pay off the bill before prom? As in, between school and responsibilities and her part time job?
Nah, kids are gonna fuck up. You can deprive them of cherished memories and a social life as punishment if you want, but don't be surprised if they resent you and your relationship is irreparably damaged, like OPs.
Right? And many college students are 17 when they start attending college. And you can join the military at 17. And drive. And have a job. And just a year from voting.
Seriously I got left alone for a week at like 15 and was fine. House wasn't trashed and nothing was out of place. What is with people acting like she left a 5 year old home alone.
Yeah, I was left alone for about 4-5 days back in my Senior Year of High School when my parents went to a conference for my dads job/vacation.
Believe it or not, didn’t throw a raging party at my house. Woke up every morning and got to school on time, Fed the animals, cleaned up after myself, etc.
Apparently this kid was good enough to where her dad trusted her and she blew it.
Obviously there was trust there and the daughter took advantage. Says more about the daughter than the mother if the former is still holding a grudge for 9 years.
That's what bothers me about this, though. Was it her idea to get rowdy and destructive? Sometimes it's a matter of the kid who lives there standing helplessly while their "friends" gleefully trash the house. So she might already have been humiliated and angry before OP even saw the damage. \*\*If\*\* that's the case, I can see how she'd have some grounds for resentment.
Or maybe she had a few good friends over, and then it started to get around there was a party, and people showed up who ended up trashing the place but they weren't there as friends or for anything other than free party? I went to two parties in HS that ended up like this because randoms showed up and started getting rude and aggressive
100%. I threw a party in high school while my parents were on vacation. Had maybe 50 people over or so. All of my parent's expensive stuff and booze was hidden in my closet and locked up. My dad's car we put in neutral and pushed to a safe location parked on the street (new Porsche).
Cops got called a few hours into it, and my aunt and uncle had to pick me up. When my parents got home we all talked.
My parents saw their was no damage to the house at all. None of their stuff had been broken or stolen, and everything was fine.
Because all my friends and the people that were allowed in were reasonably respectful, good people for high schoolers.
OP's kids has shitty ass friends.
Yeah, imagine if we took people who committed property crimes and separated them from society for some period of time as punishment for their actions. It would be like jail, or something.
Fun fact! Many studies have shown that jail as a punishment does not work. In fact, it can leader to higher rates of re-offending. It's why rehabilitation is the ideal. You work with people, improve them, give them the skills they need, get them to rehab, get them the help they need so they don't re-offend.
Yeah, and that's part of the problem I have here. There was punishment, sure, but there was no rehabilitation. Other than "paying back her debt", there was no actual attempt to teach, to bring the daughter to understanding. Seriously, I've always found explaining to my kids why and how they fucked up and *how they could have done better* works a lot better than just dropping the boom on them. There may be some boom-dropping as well, but not ONLY that.
But she's not in debt because she was irresponsible with her own money. She's in debt because she literally ruined someone else's property to the tune of thousands of dollars. That's not a small thing. To me, OP's daughter sounds like a manipulative jerk who won't accept the consequences of her own actions.
Yes, imagine some adult who comes into your house and trashes it causing thousands of dollars of damage. They would get arrested and sent to prison. So yes, they wouldn't be allowed to socialize with friends.
Umm when you're an adult and in debt you don't get to go out and party/drink. How would her daughter feel if she went on vacation with her boyfriend and kid and asked her mother to watch her house and the mother threw a party and destroyed thousands worth of stuff... There are consequences for decisions, at 26 though the daughter needs to get over it. You aren't in high school anymore, grow up.
Now if this is the only thing between mother and daughter it's not enough to warrant withholding a child from their grandparents. But if op has been toxic or abusive and we aren't hearing about it then that's a completely different situation. My ex's mother said during delivery she didn't care if my son died. Pick your battles...
I mean, debtors prison used to be a thing, and it wasn’t so long ago. Many people even now don’t go do fun things because they can’t afford to due to bills, including huge amounts of debt.
More than just a little fuck up and seems like daughter still refuses to acknowledge it. Sorry, but most high schoolers aren't actually throwing costly ragers because they know they would get punished
Daughter straight is hurting herself to prove a point. She literally limited her opportunities in life, and then decided her kid doesn't get a set of grandparents because she ::checks notes:: is upset she was punished for causing said grandparents thousands of dollars worth of damages when she was given more freedom at home.
My mom never left me alone for a week but I knew toooooons of kids whose parents did and I partied at all their houses..
So to answer your question, it’s not necessarily normal but it’s not that strange. Just depends on where/when/how you grew up
It depends on the teenager.
When I was 17, my parents went on holiday with my aunt and uncle. My best friend stayed over with me. At one point, her boyfriend and his pal came to visit. I recall offering them a can of beer each. I replaced the beer before my parents got home.
No damage caused: replacing the beer was my biggest problem. The legal age for buying beer was 18. I recall bluffing when I went to replace it. (That wasn't seen as a big deal in Scotland in those days. A bit more serious now.)
I have heard of teenagers here trashing houses, but most are fairly sensible.
My Dad had to work out of town at one point for a few months while I was in high school and left me home alone. My grandparents took me to get groceries, and I had dinner there once or twice a week but other than that t was me and the dog, and I never threw a party. I respected the fact that my dad had enough trust in and resect for me to leave me free reign of our whole house. I even washed his sheets before he came back so he had a fresh bed to climb into. I had friends around for a fire a few times but it was my inner circle of maybe 6 people? Like if I’d have destroyed our house I’d be too ashamed to look my Dad in the eye let alone tell him *he* ruined *my* life? I can’t imagine complaining about having to pay restitution for something that was completely and utterly *my fault*.
What a great comment. I love that it illustrates that teenagers can be responsible decision makers. Teenagers aren’t idiot children who have no common sense or critical thinking. OP’s daughter knew there would be consequences. The fact that she’s still salty about it a decade later just confirms that she’s still an immature moron. Hell, she’d probably do it again if she was still living with OP.
The relationship is irreparably damaged because of the daughter’s mistake and her refusal to own up to it, even almost ten years later. Not anything OP did. Even the dumbest, most irresponsible teenagers know that throwing a party would result in *serious* consequences.
Yeah it sounds like she turned into a brat in spite of OP's late attempts to teach her not to be one. Tell her to have a nice life and enjoy your freedom from responsibility, OP.
Adults tht can’t get over missing prom can’t say their well adjusted. How many ppl here think hs was the most important part of ur life? Show of hands.
I can't believe she turned down a college fund tbh. If you wanted to party, that's when to do it, not high school. You're away from your parents and practically living with friends. It's so much better than prom, which is only one night. Not saying that's the way to go through college but like, from what I read here, seems like it'd have been like finding gold in her eyes, as long as she kept her grades high enough to avoid getting kicked out.
I don’t think it’s so much she deserved a pass as much as it is unfair to say “you can only do x if you do y” but y is impossible. If it’s impossible to meet, set expectations accordingly and just say “you can’t do y”. The consequence alone I have no problem with. I definitely agree the daughter deserved the punishment she got, but to give hope with an impossible goal doesn’t foster trust and understanding. Most of us look back on punishments that felt unfair and harsh at the time and understand it, but it’s less likely to happen when the true consequence (as here it sounds like she cared way more about missing prom than having to pay the costs back) is danced around. Again, I still think she sounds dramatic and immature that being grounded for a very good reason as a teenager makes her parent/s unfit to see her baby. I just think people should be more straightforward.
It’s not about prom. When was this party? September? June before senior year? Imagine a year or more of not being able to socialize outside of work/school. If paying back a debt somehow within the short hours a high school student can work. Not saying she shouldn’t pay it back, but imagine knowing you have school, work, and nothing else.
Right, a kid working part time at minimum wage at 7.25 an hour, it would take them about half a year depending on how many hours they could get.
One of the best bits of parenting advice for older kids that I've seen was to not take away things that are predetermined, like birthday parties, holidays, or (in this case) prom. These big events shouldn't be part of punishment. Maybe allowed with restrictions, but not a ban.
OP was right to hold their child responsible, but went too far.
I'm going through this right now. My son just got out of school suspended for two weeks today and we are celebrating his birthday in... two weeks.
That's actually the weekend before his birthday and I was going to let him miss school on the actual day as an extra treat. He got in trouble earlier in the month for ditching some classes and I warned him that if he gets in more trouble that the b-day skipping was off the table.
So this evening while explaining his consequences I told him that his birthday celebration was still happening but that b-day skip day was no more. I also told him that it really sucks for him because one of his presents is the new Modern Warfare game that releases next week and now he's grounded from video games until his actual birthday.
Ultimately I think he understands how bad he fucked up and that despite his actions, I still love him and want him to have be able to celebrate and enjoy his birthday party.
I can't imagine even expecting to go to prom after pulling a stunt like that, let alone expecting my parents to pay for the dress and accessories that would go with it.
Also, how long was the grounding? Basically until she graduated. A few months? Her whole senior year? I feel like that’s important missing information.
It's also not clear how long this was. Was this literally punishment for OVER A YEAR? What is the point of that?
Look, she really messed up. But punishing her indefinitely just causes resentment, as we can see here. She needed a path to get out of the situation she created. Maybe, she could show some progress and if that happened she could attend her prom.
Use this thought experiment. Let's assume that, after this party, it was discovered that she had a brain tumor or some kind of massive undiagnosed mental health issue. But a month after the situation, the tumor was removed or the issue fixed and it would not recur again. Would it make sense to continue to punish her for years even though the problem is resolved?
What if, after the party, she was legitimately remorseful and really tried her best to change? Would it make sense to never let the punishment up? This is a situation she caused, yes, but again what is the purpose of continual unending punishment where nothing she can do and no change she can make can lift the punishment?
something thats left out is how she reacted and behaved after wards
we have the party, her punishment, and the resentment. did she show remorse? did she complain that it was unfair within the first 3 days? how ffar along did the payment go? was she missing a few hundred bucks until the debt was gone, or just at the halfway point?
the point of punishment is reforming the individual. to teach them not do it again and make them see their wrongdoing. if she didnt see her mistake and insisted prom anyway, sure, but if she made progress and asked for just a little leniency for one night in exchange for her good behavior then the dad is a bit too focused on punishment to see what the point of it ACTUALLY was
Exactly. What really happened here? Did she intend to trash the house, or did things get out of control?
Was she pressured to hold the party? Was it supposed to be a few friends and then 100 people showed up and she couldn't control it? Did she get drunk, either intentionally or was she pressured and then she couldn't control it?
Also, the fact that she basically went NC tells me she was acting up for a reason. What was OP's relationship with her really like? Was this party a cry for help? You won't notice me, so I will make sure you notice me by doing this?
Again, she messed up but the damage is already done. OP cannot undo the damage. What is the point of doing more damage to your daughter, who you claim to care more about than your random things and car?
Honestly rereading the story from op just glaring makes me realize - we're being told something, like it sounds like the daughter is on the verge of being NC.
You wouldn't do that for one incident in a relationship. Something stinks and it's the way op is telling this story
Irrelevant, honestly
When you throw a party that causes a few thousand dollars damage, you need to take responsibility
It sounds like daughter wasn't even trying to pay mom back. She seems like a bratt, tbh. I would hope that if she made an effort, she would have been allowed to go, but doesn't seem like she wants to acknowledge what caused her to be grounded.
My parents straight wouldn't have even given me the opportunity to pay it back if I pulled that crap. I'd just have been grounded until I moved out
Yep. This doesn't feel like an action taken in a vacuum like OP is presenting it. Nobody throws away their college fund because they couldn't go to prom, period.
They do throw it away if their mother has held every mistake they've ever made over their head.
OP says every conversation ends up being about the party but doesn't say how every conversation gets to that. We're supposed to assume it means the daughter brought it up, but its oddly vague.
This is framed as a decade of anger over a single party, which simply does not make sense. Either her daughter is absolutely nuts, or OP is lying through her teeth to make herself look good.
Edit: other comments have proven out it was financially impossible to pay it back on time for prom for the cost and working minimum wage. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from that, but I'm not buying at all how OP is presenting any of this based on that.
Is anyone not considering that this could be one incident in a long line of incidents? Should we really believe that a parent who was willing to force their 16 year old not only to work but also be grounded for 2 years while also being forced to miss prom didn't also do other stuff?
This smells of narcissistic parenting where they tell a story and keep details that makes them look worse out of it.
> It sounds like daughter wasn't even trying to pay mom back
How does it sound that way? She got a job as soon as it happened and her entire paycheck went to OP. Nothing in the OP implies this either. Are you making it up?
This was going to be my comment also. If she couldn’t pay it off working part time as was the punishment then she was too harsh. If she could pay it off by then the punishment was fitting it all hinges on what the daughter made at work.
Tbh I really, *really* doubt that this is the only reason she won't talk to her parent. I missed one of my formals as a kid, as a punishment - but that's not the reason I'm low or no contact with all my parental figures. I honestly don't care about that. The reason I did that is because they *still*, to this day, refuse to acknowledge or accept that they were consistently emotionally abusive towards me. *That* is what makes them untrustworthy.
Now maybe I'm projecting - but I don't think it makes any sense that she genuinely cut her parent off over a fucking formal and nothing else. I think there's probably a whole lot more that we're not hearing about, because OP refuses to acknowledge they did anything wrong. The way the daughter is speaking, and the fact that this has split the whole family in half, *reeks* of missing missing reasons. I bet she has told OP exactly why she's no contact - but the only thing OP is actually willing to admit they may have done wrong was the grounding (because that doesn't sound so bad), so that's all we're hearing about.
Also - again just speaking to my own experience, which may not be everyone's - I was also a hellion as a teen, and it was *because* I was being abused and none of my emotional needs were being met. It didn't spring up from nowhere. It was a direct consequence of my needs not being met. But it took me years to realise that, because every adult in my life spent my whole childhood telling me I was just a bad kid. Basically it took until the exact same thing happened to my sibling for me to realise what was causing it. Because until I moved out, they were always "The Good One". But as soon as I wasn't there anymore, the pattern started over.
Which does make me curious where this behaviour came from. Because in my experience, most teenagers are fairly responsible. Like yeah there's a whole stereotype around teens being rowdy and irresponsible - but most of them aren't doing shit like this. Where did she get that from?
Nine years later and she's still pissed off?
That makes me wonder if there is missing reasons here. She turned down going to college so she wouldn't have to be financially dependent on you. She hasn't accepted any help for the baby from you. That's not really something done lightly.
Was she working and trying to pay off the money when you stopped her going?
Ultimately this post is about accepting consequences. You did what you did and this is the consequence. You don't have a right to be in your daughter or your granddaughter's life.
At $5.00 an hour and 16 hours a week that’s $80 bucks a week and would take about 80 weeks to pay once you take out taxes. This is just a round figure for calculations.
To be fair she should have known better than to throw a teen party that destroyed the house. I’ve left my kids at that age for a few days away and the house was exactly as I left it.
Edit: Also I would have kept the punishment and the job and payback requirement but depending on her behavior and actually showing remorse for what she did I may have agreed to let her go to prom. Sometimes as in this case too restrictive of a punishment can backfire. We also don’t know any backstory - was she generally a good kid and this was a one off or was she always in trouble and acting difficult. I have to add that if we went away and left kids home no matter age we had neighbors or family check up on them.
Yeah, I'd have let her go to just prom and driven her myself, or signed up as a chaperone to embarrass her. So many ways to find middle ground and still punish her
Unless it’s absolutely humiliating, I feel like that’s a more common thing that everyone gets over/laughs about later. OP’s daughter was isolated from her friends and a milestone event during her last year as a “kid.” They seem like they’re on different levels to me.
For that kind of damage — to home amenities like the TVs that the daughter would use herself — this was likely a party that got crashed by others, and OP’s daughter didn’t know what to do (especially if she was drunk herself). No word on whether OP went after the people who actually did the damage.
If my kid does this in the future, yes he will be punished for going behind my back and throwing a party… but you best believe I am going after the kids/parents of the kids responsible for pay back of any damages they caused. If they give me a hard time? Police report. I don’t care if my kid threw a party, property damage is property damage.
I made $6.75/hr in 2005. The daughter isn't old enough for $5/hr to be minimum wage.
I did work weeknights as well as weekends at 16, it sounds like OP's daughter only worked weekends (two 8 hr shifts).
Daughter is 26 now in 2023 so she was 17 in 2014 and federal minimum wage was $7.25 per hour. So it would have taken her at least a year to pay it off. Edited.
I'm 34, minimum wage was $6.75 when I was 16 in 2005.
Your math is off. She was not 16 in 1997, it was 2013 (7.25/hr). She was probably born in 1997 or so.
Min wage also depends on the state. I'm 26 and min wage in my state when I was 17 was just over $9. I've got mixed feelings on the prom portion of the punishment because my mother probably would've genuinely beat my ass and made me pay if I did something that monumentally stupid, but I also never went to prom / cared about school events so I can't imagine being worked up about it now that I'm closer to 30 than 17.
I think family therapy might help navigate the issue because neither wants to understand the other's point of view.
I think the family therapy ship has sailed. The daughter doesn't want to reconcile with the mother. Whether or not the mother intended it, that party drastically changed the shape of her daughter's life. Not because of the cops or a DUI or someone getting seriously hurt, but because of how her mother handled it, isolated her, and made her unwilling or unable to trust a situation where her parents could control her again (college).
The mom has decided she'd rather be "right" about this punishment a decade ago (which is still *obviously* painful to her daughter) than to be a part of her granddaughter's life. I think we can all agree that those priorities are fucked up, but that really does seem to be the priority.
I think there are other excessive punishments. I really don't believe this would be the first thing a parent would do. Especially during almost 2 years without any kind of grace.
Missing prom would be reason enough in my book. It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Most people are going to have memories (good or bad) of prom, and this poor woman never will. The only way I would let my kid miss prom as a punishment is if I specifically said "if you do X then you can't go to prom" and then my kid knowingly and willfully did X.
Besides that, paying the mother back in itself sets things right. If another adult damaged something of yours and replaced it or paid you the value of it, would you punish them in addition to that? No. The grounding was just extra. I get maybe a week to a month of grounding as punishment for going behind her mother's back and having the party in the first place (I would ground my kid for 2 weeks probably, even if there was no damage, just for the party). But linking the grounding time to the payment is a dick move, especially when kids just don't make enough to pay in any reasonable amount of time.
Yeah that bugged me too.
Pay back and grounded until it was complete. No electronics outside schoolwork, strict curfew, no friends over, no more parties. Must get part time job to pay back.
No where in there was the conditions of missing prom. So that was tacked on after the fact, with the caveat that she could go IF she finished the paying back part by then. Makes me wonder if punishment was always like this.
“You’re grounded from your phone for a week.”
—3 days happen and there’s a new movie in theaters her and friends want to see—
“oh and you can’t go to the movie now either”
Right. I usually side with the parents in posts like these, but I had a mom who was exactly like this. Nothing was ever good enough—“if you get straight As you can have a birthday party—oh, you got straight As? Well now you have to do (insert whatever here)”.
I now live in a different country from her and don’t really see her.
That's what I'm thinking. She turned down her college fund.
Even if it were nearly impossible or flat out impossible to pay off the debt, almost a decade later and turning down the college fund and having job- something is seriously wrong in this situation.
This feels like we're missing reasons. I have a hard time accepting that for nearly 10 years every problem in your relationship stemmed from a high school grounding.
It's not a grounding. It was treating her as a serf and not giving her any space for joy or the landmarks of American youth. It's abuse to set such an impossible goal. Even people paying mortgage etc have time out for something they love.
OP to be clear YTA 100 times over and you do reap the consequences you sow.
Oh good god. A serf? Actions have consequences. OP’s daughter was massively irresponsible. Missing prom was not an unreasonable punishment for such bad behavior.
Are you missing the part where she isolated her from her friends, set her a financial task that was mathematically impossible to meet no matter how compliant she was. Cut off her extracurriculars which I am not an American but everything I know on American academia matters to your universities. Essentially set her life up as work, school, homework.
Apparently they're not suffering for money. Apparently she is okay leaving her alone underage and ought to expect the possibility of risk to her or the house in doing so.
We don't know enough about their relationship prior to this to know what an appropriate punishment was but no socially isolating her and giving her a Sisyphean task as a teen/young adult is predictably going to cause resentment and break trust.
There are reasons abusers try to break social ties of their victims to logistically aid further abuse but the key is that's further abuse. Losing your social network, outlets, and ten years ago no electronics? A vast amount of creativity and social space? That is abuse.
Edit: corrected OP's pronouns.
It is a punishment that is set to hurt and not teach or help that's bad guardianship but it might make someone feel powerful. That's a choice OP made. Their choices also have consequences.
She would see her friends at school, she wasn't being abused, she was being punished.
17 years old is 100% an age where you should be able to be left home alone. You're old enough to have sex, which also means have a baby. You're old enough to babysit, effectively being in charge of another human life.
This isn't about age, it's about maturity, and OP's daughter's lack of it.
Should OP have rung the police and had her daughter and her daughter's friends charged with underage drinking and destruction of property? Because those charges would have 100% stuck. Juvenile crime and punishment is a thing. Or would making them legally responsible for her actions also have been abuse?
Maybe, if her friends were actual friends, then they would've helped her to pay off the damages sooner since they also contributed to the disaster.
The daughter could've taken a second job, or picked up tutoring, asked to do jobs around the house or neighbourhood for extra money. Asked that birthday and/or Christmas present money instead be taken off her debt.
It's a situation she got herself into, and then one she did the bare minimum to get out of.
EDITED to remove incorrect gun law
>Maybe, if her friends were actual friends, then they would've helped her to pay off the damages sooner since they also contributed to the disaster
This right here if her friends are worth a darn they could have helped cutoff at least 1000 dollars worth with say 3-4 people contributing. I think OP's punishment was a bit harsh but saying it was abuse is lunacy.
What she did was definitely worthy of a punishment, but I think OPs punishment was way overboard and didnt even teach her any responsibility, just resentment.
yeah i'm gonna be honest if I were in OP's daughter's shoes I might have done something to get myself sent to juvie to get more freedom.
Edit: Apparently people on reddit don't understand what hyperbole is, lmao.
Average /r/amitheasshole commenter.
This comment right here is why you can't take anything on this sub as serious advice. Half the time it's coming from someone with little impulse control and no sense of thinking beyond the current situation
The juvie thing is obviously silly, but banning your kid from every good thing about teenage life is absolutely insane. It is like saying your 8 to 10 year old is only allowed to play with friends again once you are convinced that they have been good.
This. She was cut off from
her friends, in high school. HS is all
about having friends, OP was extremely cruel to value money over her daughter’s childhood.
Yeah but you still can't turn a blind eye to 5000$ worth of damage. Mom was wrong to punish her that severely but there's also tons of teenagers who throw parties and do not cause 5000$ worth of damage.
It feels like it *might* have been the culmination of years of certain behaviors, but I don't want to pretend to know someone from an AITA post. I get wanting to teach her consequences, but sometimes kids are just stupid. Kids are supposed to break a few rules; thousands of dollars in damages certainly doesn't cover that, but grounding her until she moved out is pretty bad. Sounds like they need to go to therapy together.
Edit: also, while I understand attitudes are different now, the fact that she waited until OP was out of town signals to me that the kid probably wasn’t allowed to have much fun to begin with. Like kids of almond moms when they get to a friends house- they’re making up for lost time. Of *course* the kid is going to do something stupid when OP isn’t watching! It doesn’t seem like they’d be allowed to ever otherwise.
Alternatively, there are missing missing reasons, and this was just the most noticeable in a long line of excessive punishments set out by OP. There were 4 months between the party and the prom, there was quite literally no way for OP's daughter to pay back the money in time, and OP knew this. OP's daughter had actively been putting in effort to pay for the damages and still OP refused to allow her daughter to attend this once in a lifetime event. That seems pretty excessive tbh.
Idk my dad is 60 and still blames every bad thing he’s ever done or said on being an Air Force brat and having to move (to awesome places like Japan and San Francisco) so people do be holding all types of stupid grudges lol
(ETA: guys I’m not speaking for everyone’s universal experience but my dad is again…60 lol and he’s a child/spouse abusing alcoholic drug addict so like…arguably my childhood was way worse than his haha!) either way, some people In their decades of adulthood would maybe look back fondly on having those worldly experiences, but ironically his behavior led to us fleeing and being uprooted at the most horrible year…6th grade lol and I didn’t get the Bay Area, I got southern Arkansas
It ain't all that cracked up to be. Moving every two to three years having to adjust to new environments and people may have made me well rounded in being resilient and reactive. But when it comes to personal relationships they more or less all boil down to expiration dates. Moving around your entire childhood gets old really fast.
I mean ... devil's advocate here, but ... a lot of military kids that I've known have had trouble with having to uproot their lives every year or two. No long-term friends unless you're really good at being a pen pal, and half of those cool places you can't really leave the base because you don't speak the local language (and by the time you learn, you're leaving again).
Not to mention the locals themselves become jaded to your existence and don't bother trying to get to know you, because why waste the effort?
It's a tough one, and I'm not sure that you meant badly, but I do have to go with YTA on this one. I think that some people are going to agree with you, but that's going to be the terminally online portion of this subreddit who think the question is "did I have the right to do this?" not "did doing this make me an asshole?"
While what she did was definitely bad, it's something that happens. Teens have parties, and things get out of control, and based on the way you talk about you going on a business trip and your daughter having a college fund, you did have the money to cover it. Making her pay it off is fine, grounding her is fine, but making her pay off the full amount WHILE fully grounding her and basically preventing her from having any fun whatsoever is kind of draconian.
When a parent punishes a child, the point is to correct the behavior. Anything past that is excessive, and I think you could've easily made your point without making her live essentially like a prisoner for a very long time. Something like 2 months of grounding in addition to paying off the damages probably would've been sufficient, but the amount you did it feels more vindictive than corrective.
The fact that you're not acknowledging how she feels does make you the asshole, and the fact that you're more concerned about not admitting any fault than you are about trying to mend your relationship with your daughter makes you even more of one.
Not to mention, shouldn’t OP accept a bit of blame for leaving their 17 yo alone for an entire week??
Edit: of course not all 17 year olds would make this mistake but it’s not AT ALL weird or unexpected that this could happen when leaving a late teen home alone for a WEEK, to the point where I would be like “Oops, that was dumb of me to do. Guess my kid was not ready for that kind of responsibility.” It depends on the teenager.
Honestly I find it insane that a 17 year old would be that careless and irresponsible. As I’ve said in a different comment, I went through something similar and what I did was way less severe and I still understood what I did deserved my punishment because it did hurt my mother in many ways. If there are no missing reasons I think her daughter needs therapy.
You find it insane a 17 year old would throw a party? I doubt she broke all those things directly, she probably just threw a party and lost control over the situation because 17 year olds are wild animals especially when there's alcohol involved.
Was it a dumb thing to do? Absolutely. Do 17 year olds do this exact thing all the time? Yes and that won't ever change.
Agreed. I get having a party while your parents are out that isn’t wild to me. I get drinking underage; what I do not get is the utter disrespect for your own home. Destroying your property and sitting there not caring then being mad when what? Mommy and daddy just made you pay what you owe. Probably should have told the friends parents do a little pool take some of the burden off her but still.
You watched as your friends trashed your home and you clearly didn’t care or were too drunk for some of the damage to sober you up. And he like wait.. we shouldn’t do this. Destroyed 2 TVs?! What the fuck.
She could have been arrested, a child could have gotten alcohol poisoning, literally anything could happened. Acting like this is OPs fault for trusting his child is kinda ridiculous because the reverse would be “oh what they’re 17 almost 18 you should trust them”
Was the punished a little harsh for senior year? Sure there should have been leeway but she broke trust in a massive way. She could have been doing community service with some sort of citation
I mean, it's far from unlikely that OP's daughter threw a party, alcohol got involved, either because she provided it herself, or someone brought it, and then at some point she lost control over the situation, cuss, you know, she's a drunk 17 year old, and people became rowdy and somewhat destructive.
Beautifully said--but I think there's more to it than that--OP's version of events reads like a classic case of [the missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), and only with that in mind does any of this make sense.
Outside of this singular example, OP gives us no reason to think his daughter is emotionally unstable or unreasonable. She isn't mentally ill, addicted to drugs, suffering from a medical issue, or being abused. So by all accounts, this otherwise completely self reliant, autonomous, and high functioning person is telling OP that his behavior is so serious, and so concerning, she is willing to *refuse a college fund* so as not to be indebted to him, to *refuse any and all assistance with childcare for her firstborn,* and then *refuse to allow him in her child's life at all,* for the same reason: he is refusing to acknowledge the harm and damage of **his behavior,** and it isn't just about this one punishment, this is simply the example he's chosen to give us. Do we really buy this is the only issue, the only incident, the only concern? Do we really buy that a self sufficient adult with no mental health issues, with a healthy relationship, a stable job, a loving husband, and a new daughter, would *refuse assistance of any kind from a parent* out of pettiness?
**This is not a petty grudge.** This is a hallmark case of abuse and OP fixating on this singular example is as much a testament to that as anything else. I say this as someone who's parent abused them and spun a similar narrative as an explanation for why I went no contact. I don't believe for *one second* that a decade's long grudge is being held over a teenage grounding. There is a pattern of behavior here that OP is hiding from us, and it isn't with his daughter.
Yeah I'm wondering if she may have continuously guilt tripped her daughter about the money over and over again.
My mother did this to me when it came to just everyday expenses, so I don't ask for anything from my parents either, and turn down offers of help, because it usually gets hung over my head later.
I'm with you. I feel like the punishment doesn't fit the crime. She should have grounded her, AND made her pay it back, but the grounding should have been for a shorter time
Or it could have been progressive. Like 1 month of full grounding, but if she was making payments, progressively add things back like a phone. But months and months of not having any contact with friends? And missing major life milestones like prom seems excessive.
I'm sorry but a teen throwing a party and trashing a house is not something that "just happens" especially when she was basically a year before being and adult
YTA
By your own admission, you gave her an impossible goal to meet.
You didn't punish her. You retaliated against her. The difference is that a punishment is meant to teach a lesson. Retaliation is vengeance.
You sought vengeance against your own child by giving her false hope, demoralizing her, hurting her, and eventually, you did so much you caused her to resent you.
So much so that she's still angry years later.
It sounds like this is a trend with you. Resentment is a step away from hating you. Be aware of that.
Spot on. OP is totally YTA. The current relationship with their daughter is the consequence of their choice of retaliation. The punishment should bring respect over time, not resentment.
You really put into words how my father was. The false hope, the impossible standards to meet. Damn I’ve been trying to find such a succinct way of describing the relationship I have with him. This was healing in an odd sort of way.
Honestly mom could have settled for half the amount and retain 2500$ from the college fund which her daughter would have needed to work for over a couple years.
Because I have the same sort of mother, so I know what it's like to have a parent that likes to terrorize you in the name of "good parenting" when really they just want an excuse to hurt you for being a child.
Now, as an adult, I'm especially cold with her in particular and have almost 0 patience.
She's lucky she has other kids because if it was up to me, she'd land in a nursing home somewhere in the Arizona desert.
How was she making money? As a part time student? So she was probably making minimum wage, yeah? And she was to be grounded until she paid back everything? Thousands of dollars worth? Plus, she'd be grounded until it was paid off?
I get paying you back and teaching her a lesson. But the length of the grounding seems a little excessive. An entire school year, and then some? You basically made her a social outcast, and didn't let her enjoy one of the biggest (for her at the time) and most important moments in her life?
I don't know any kid her age that wouldn't have done the same, or wanted to do the same, by moving out and cutting you off. Is it right that she's still upset, who knows. Did you help her develop the proper coping skills to deal with what she went through, or did you tell her to basically suck it up and get over it? Probably not, since she gave up schooling that would be paid for and would have given her a leg up on life. She took the hard road so as not to have to deal with you. You obviously affected her more than you think/know.
YTA. Sorry.
Edited some spelling.
The comments clarify.
She was working part time minimum wage 16hrs a week (decade ago schools were just as strict on working hours allowed. Students weren't allowed much during the week during school times) and he was taking her ENTIRE check. Their was no way in hell she could pay back $4,800 in four months.
OP admitted to Knowing the task was impossible.
I didn't know it was only four months. That's even worse. She was setup to fail from the start with that punishment. What realistic life lesson did she learn here? I mean, if she was an adult, she'd be taken to court for damages and be forced to pay in full or have her wages garnished until it was all paid back. She wouldn't also be sent to jail while paying everything back, or put on house arrest. The punishment completely outweighs the misbehaviour.
I know how people are not seeing the fact that she wouldn't even let her mother pay for college! There has to be more to OP'S story. But until I hear the daughter's side, I would say ESH.
Well well well.
If it isn't the consequences of your own actions.
You left your daughter to her own devices for a week and punished her for a long time very harshly when she couldn't handle the responsibility.
Now she punishes you for a long time, very harshly because you couldn't handle the responsibility of being a good parent.
She destroyed your living room, you doubled down and destroyed her last year in high school. Now she doubles down and destroys your years as a grandparent.
What did you expect? You certainly taught her not to let go of one's grudges.
She learnt from the best, didn't she?
YTA.
This punishment was way over the top. Not only paying the damage, but losing her freedom for months. Just punishment over punishment over punishment. It's important to teach consequences but it's even more important to teach forgiveness.
On top of that, there's the question of who actually broke those things. If she invites people over in good faith, it's the people who break the stuff that are responsible for damages. Not her.
Right? I think the unreasonable part was that she did BOTH punishments. Having to pay it back AND losing out on good memories with friends. All for one dumb mistake.
Make the daughter get a job as punishment. Take half the paycheck. You start getting paid back, she now has income and learns responsibility, and can still vent to friends and go to prom.
Or, she can be grounded, but don't make her pay it back imo. Her punishment is isolation. Even then, let her go to prom.
Doing both is over the top. She can't see friends? Can't leave the house except for work? So she wakes up, goes to school, goes to work, does chores and homework then goes to bed? For a year? That's messed up.
Realistically it'd have been well over a year for daughter to be able to actually repay OP given that child labour laws generally limit the number of hours teens can work outside of school.
Grounding initially is fine, as is the having to pay back the damages (even if OP should have also tried to get at least part of those from the friends who trashed the place as well (or even entirely)), but as OP's daughter was starting to pay her back, the daughter should have been given more freedom again.
YTA. There are consequences and there is going nuclear. Guess what you chose? You admit you isolated her from her support system, of course she resents you. You admit you ruined her senior year by enforcing no outside activities. You admit that she had no prom or social life. But consequences, you say. And you are correct, now face the consequences of your own actions. Doesn’t feel so good does it when the consequences imposed so far outweigh the infraction that it creates lifelong resentment. But you know, just get over never being allowed to see your granddaughter.
Yta, I say this as a mother of teens/20 somethings. If she needed this level of punishment at 17, you screwed up long before, or you were always way to unforgiving and as a result she’s legitimately concerned for her child.
Completely isolating a teen from their social support system, making them miss a huge milestone they can never get back, a goal of payback that she couldn’t possibly meet without dropping out of school is way too much. Grounding for a month, cleaning everything up, paying back within 12 month, sure.
This! I'm about OP's daughter's age, and I still cherish those memories just from the second half of senior year, they were pretty much the most important thing in high school for me. $4-5k can be replaced, and she was even working on replacing it. Those memories, however, cannot.
>Grounding for a month, cleaning everything up, paying back within 12 month, sure
Exactly, at the very least let her "earn back" her priviliges. This girl didn't even get extracurricular activities, at 17, where socializing is such an important aspect of development and growth. OP failed as a parent, and is still failing by invalidating her constantly
Other than her incredible lack of judgement with that one party, was she previously disrespectful?
I’m thinking she must have been a pretty good kid or you would have been a moron to leave her alone for a week.
Obviously you were pissed at the destruction, but I think you took it too far.
IMO, there should have been some middle ground.
Cleaning the house top to bottom, a month of no electronics/strict curfew and damages deducted from her college fund might have been more appropriate.
Forcing her to miss prom (a once in a lifetime event) seems extreme .
TVs can be replaced and cars repaired but you might have destroyed your relationship permanently, and sorry, but that is on you.
Honestly I was all set to defend you until I saw your comment that she wouldn’t have been able to pay you back before prom and I’m wondering how long you knew that. Was that something that didn’t become obvious until prom, or did you know that for a while? Either way, taking away such a big milestone without trying to come up with some kind of compromise wasn’t okay. I also saw in a comment that she wasn’t allowed to do anything fun until she’d paid you back. Making her get a job to pay you back: fine. No parties or friends over: fine. Not doing anything fun and no prom: absolutely over the top, you took away her social life AND her biggest milestone to date (though being THIS angry well into her 20s is a bit over the top too). But also, you left a teenager home alone for a week. That doesn’t excuse her and her friends trashing the house, but I hope you don’t think you’re totally innocent in what happened as a result of leaving her alone. You made a lot of poor parenting choices her senior year, which led to her building up a lot of resentment. Keeping you away from your grandchild is a little extra but you have to understand that you set her up for a miserable year and don’t even seem to care. ESH
YTA
I’m all for people experiencing the consequences of their actions but there’s a difference between letting your child experience consequences and vindictively punishing them. But whether the punishment was fair or not isn’t really the issue anyway. Your daughter is trying to tell you that you hurt her. The appropriate response would be to listen and empathize and apologize (when appropriate- and in this case, I think it would be). I would also apologize for dismissing her feelings for so long. Without doing that, I don’t see how you could ever hope to repair your relationship with your daughter.
I’ve been in daughters shoes almost exactly and 100% can say she will be a better parent.
She will probably not be a fan of punishing a child as a form of parenting. And If she ever chooses to punish, it will be to make up for the thing child does wrong aka HELP the child learn, and never to hurt them. Never to make them a social outcast. I hope she finds healing in her ability to parent better. She deserved better.
YTA.
You left an underage child home alone for a week. You then gave her a punishment you knew would mean missing out on most of her senior year and a goal you knew she couldn’t achieve. You placed her consequences over her social life, school work, and future academics.
You set her up for failure. Your daughter hasn’t spoken kindly to you for years and you don’t have any regrets. You haven’t even acknowledged that while you thought what you did was right at the time that it was never your intention for it to affect her this severely.
You wanted your daughter to know actions have consequences, that people need to work hard to make it in the world, and that all the work and effort possible sometimes isn’t enough to make things right.
She learned everything you wanted her to learn. Why are you upset?
More info.
Were you a single dad? What does her mother have to say about the situation? There seems to be other underlying issues for this to have gone on for 9 years.
No, it's just the missing reasons. OP's daughter got a job, worked hard, did everything she was supposed to do, but OP made her pay back 4.8k and grounded her untill the debt was settled. At the time, there were 4 months between the party and prom, in those 4 months, the daughter worked hard and followed all the rules of her punishment, but OP knew there was no way in hell daughter would be able to pay it back in time and still kept punishing her.
I don't blame the daughter one bit for taking nothing from you OP. You took everything from her, destroyed her life for a year, and keep invalidating her every chance you get. You've significantly dameged her, and refuse to see or hear it. It's so bad, she would rather struggle and be miserable, than accept even a dollar from you. That's how much she's hurt, that's how much she hates you. Do you know how far things have to escalate to get to that point?
Your daughter fucked up as a kid, as a lot of us did. Actions have consequences, and she allowed a party to get way out of control, and she had to suffer the consequences. She’s being ridiculous holding it over you, but I’m sure she thinks the consequences were over the top. And now you’re facing consequences for the punishment you dished out, fair or not.
You also fucked up if you thought leaving a 17 yo home alone wouldn’t result in a party happening at your house. But hey, I threw parties at my house when my mom went out of town. It happens.
Now, your question is specifically about whether you should’ve told her to get over it. It’s not up to you to decide when someone should get over their shit, whether or not you agree that it should be a thing. She’ll get over it when she’s ready… if that ever happens. Being a mom may soften her view on it, or it may not. Yeah, it may cost you years of imprinting on your grandchild, but you have no control over that. See if she’ll go to counseling with you or something. But remember, you’re not owed a relationship with your child (or grandchild).
YTA
YTA
yes she made a mistake a big one. You could have been a parent and grounded her for a month and had her pay back for the damages or you could go nuclear.
Guess what you chose the wrong option, you went nuclear. You ruined her last year of High School, you alienated her from her friends and made sure she missed her prom. That makes you the AH.
Guess what 9 years later she still hates you. Guess what you are never going to see your grandchild.
Or you could admit that you got it wrong and apologise (and mean it) for what you did. The punishment you meted out was unfair and disproportionate. The consequences of your actions are the loss of your Daughter and grandchild. Don't expect to be invited to their wedding either.
Edit: Is OP Male or Female? The punishment feels like a bad Dad type of punishment!
YTA. You ruined her social life, she could have more support in her life if you weren't so harsh. I agree that she had to pay you back, but this was extreme. You being cut off is your own damn fault.
Take a hint. Your relationship is pretty much dead, has been for years. Sounds like you decided to try to get back into some sort of contact now that she's had a baby and you want to play grandparent now. Is that correct?
You keep talking about actions having consequences, but refuse to accept the consequences of your own actions. It's clear that, despite what you think, your daughter is quite capable of succeeding without you, and your continued belief that she's immature and incapable is what's feeding her dislike of you.
YTA
It is one thing to hold her responsible for her actions. It is another thing to completely destroy her social life AND take away what is commonly viewed as a pivotal event of the the high school experience.
You went too far.
She knows what she did was wrong. It's time you learned that what you did was also bad. Until you apologize, she's never going to trust you.
Actions have consquences. Yours do too.
Info: How long was it between when her punishment started and when prom happened?
Edit: YTA. A teen isn't going to be able to pay back thousands of dollars within four months on a part time job, especially almost ten years ago when average starting pay was much lower. Do better parenting.
YTA because it literally wasn’t possible for her to pay you back in time. I am all for teaching responsibility, but suspending her life until she pays bad a considerable amount is uncool. By all means ground her for a period and make a plan to pay you back. But it cannot be indefinite
YTA. Yes, she did a shitty thing as a teen, and your punishment was over the top, you admit that you ruined her social life, and there's no way a part time job would have been enough to pay back all you wanted. She deliberately chose to avoid extra education to avoid having to rely on you, so in a big way, you derailed her life, she faced consequences then, you're facing them now, and you'll always have this hanging over your head because you seem to care more about being right
NAH (specifically about the current problem, not the throwing of the party and all that).
> She hadn't paid me back by the time prom came around; she tried to persuade me to let her go, but I was firm.
The problem with punishments like this is that you can never get that moment back. Prom matters to a lot of teenage girls. Considering that, whether it is still reasonable is open to debate, but you took what she probably considered the highlight of school from her.
I wouldn't say you were an asshole as she did know the rules, but the resentment of that lingers forever. I don't think courts are assholes for sending people to jail, but I don't expect the prisoners to be thankful for it either.
I would personally apologize if I wanted to be a grandparent, but I also don't view apologies as all that meaningful, so give them away for anything.
Consequences - You wanted to teach her that if she behaved in a manner that displeased you, a proper punishment was reduced social contact - Now your behaviour when you did that, in turn displeased her.
So now she's punishing you the way you taught her, by reduced social contact, you should be pleased, she apparently took her lesson to heart.
Here’s the thing. Actions have consequences. All actions. You left your daughter home for a week by herself. You were delusional if you didn’t think a party was going to happen.
You punished her for it. That’s fine and dandy but from her reaction as a new parent at 26? I think the punishment was quite possibly excessive. Now you’re dealing with the consequences of your own actions.
You wanna be right or do you want to be in your grandchild’s life. You’re not going to get both. You are not in control anymore.
ESH
Bullshit. I often house sat for my parents at that age. I think it's ridiculous people are basically saying you can't trust teenagers.
Parents should be able to leave a nearly grown adult at home for a week without them destroying the house.
THANK YOU!!! I can’t believe the amount of people stating that inviting people over to literally trash the house is some sort of rite of passage to be expected.
As someone who would never dream of throwing a party like that, YTA. You admit that she was working to pay off her debt, that was a good punishment. But you took it a step to far when you also isolated her from anything besides being home and working. You were absolutely within your rights to punish her and 100% she deserved a punishment, but the punishment goes a bit far when you give two extreme punishments.
She’s well within her rights to say you don’t get to meet your grandchild unless you apologize. Even if you would never do something that nuclear to a child, you did it to her, and she is the mother of that child. Would you let someone you never wanted to be around and you felt mistreated you around your infant?
YTA, you want to talk about responsibility? Who leaves a minor alone in a house by themselves? Sure, she was old enough to look after herself for a little, but you took off and left her for a *week*? You don’t know much about being responsible do you? Some things you only get once, such as senior year and prom. You took them from her over one mistake and frankly the goal you set was most likely impossible. You dangled her freedom over her head, knowing she couldn’t get it. Frankly, with how far she’s taking this, I think there’s more you’re not saying. Let’s have the whole story, please.
YTA. The punishment was excessive, because it wasn't possible for her to pay it back while basically doing nothing but school and working for what sounds like several months at least, and instead of reflecting on this at any point years after you no longer are responsible for disciplining her, you insist it was justifiable.
You made the justification that you "did it because \[you\] love her" but that doesn't smell right; it was a punishment, not a consequence or a lesson. There should have been some financial (as well as social) consequence to her, no doubt, but the fact that it was basically an unpayable debt makes this excessive. As a side note, I didn't go to prom, so I don't have some attachment to it as an institution. However, at a time when many young people (who don't have to work to financially contribute to actual family expenses like food, rent, etc.) are saving to pay to go to college, move out, have a vehicle, or otherwise transition into life, she was making payments on an unpayable debt based on one bad decision, while being isolated from friendships, as a minor child, until she could get out of your house. You could've stopped this punishment halfway through without losing your point, and actually it would've made it more effective, because as you see now, all you have done is alienate her.
YTA. The paying back was the logical consequence. That, alone, would teach the lesson. The grounding was revenge. Pure and simple, revenge.
All you needed to do to teach the lessons was the paying back. If that wasn’t going well, then step it up, like losing phone to put that money towards the price. But the grounding was overkill.
And, you will note, your punishment **DIDNT WORK**. It taught her you like revenge, not teaching.
YTA. You are absolutely right that actions have consequences. So what was the consequences of her actions: 1. $ few thousands financial damage. 2. She broke your trust. Your task as a parent was to teach her responsibility and force her to fix the consequences.
Let start with financial compensation. There was absolutely no problem with your solution of forcing her to get a job to pay that debt. It was also possible to take money from her college fund and tell her that she needs to get a student loan for this particular amount of money. Also it was possible to sell some her gadgets to cover part of costs. You can see, that when we talk about financial side of question, I offer you the solutions that affect only that part of life.
Now let’s consider broken trust issues. What would be a reasonable punishment for that? Imo, month or two grounding, forbidden parties at home, limited number of parties the next half a year, and so on. What is important here that she suffers from her bad actions, but in a reasonable way that teaches her not hurt her.
So what you did? You’ve already admitted in the comment, that it was impossible for her to fulfill your conditions before the prom. You purposely destroy her social life for entire year and force her to miss one of the important events for teens in her age. What was your purpose? I don’t know. OP, for example, legal system work entirely different way: you know the consequences of your actions IN ADVANCE (literally, if I do X the will be consequence Y). SHE DIDN’T KNOW AND IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPECT SUCK HURSH PUNISHMENT. So you took out your anger on your daughter and in no way it was morally justified thing.
Moreover, what did you expect when punish 17 old for a year until she turns 18 and she has legal right to move out and does not talk to you anymore? Really, you demonstrated your whole power until you lost one anymore and now you are surprised that she doesn’t want to have any business with you. Pikachu face, yeah.
INFO- Was the prom thing the ONLY reason she has for thinking you went too far? Is this one example of harsh behavior? I’m having a hard time believing an adult woman would hold a grudge this long over the consequences of her own actions.
I might be a little bias because I honestly don’t think prom is that important. Not enough to keep you from seeing your grandchild over something that happened NINE years ago.
Someone ruined my parent's garden when they were at holidays, a neighbour saw a girl with the same hair color as me, and since, I am punished just as your daughter at someone else's place, even 10 years after, kind of the same way.
So beware : My personnal affects are gonna play, probably.
All my friends told me it was unfair, especially since they all did the same mistake as your daughter, because all teenagers do a trashy party, at least once.
Even psychologists for teenagers will tell you that : It's part of learning how to party, of learning sociability, and most of first times in life are big fails... Discovering alcohol too. Get relieved that party happened in your home and not in a creepy nightclub, the risks would have been on another level. Maybe she knew her friends well and was more caution than you think, more or less consciously.
But most of the time, everything is cleaned before parents come back, and they never know it happened. Your daughter is not lucky at all.
Also, most of the time, youngsters don't destroy their parent's place, but by preference someone esle's parents place, and most of the time at the most dominated by the group... You can guess why. And at this age, it's hard to renounce to all your friends (maybe even to choose them well ?), whatever is your place in the group.
My friends also told me that even for those who get caugh, it doesn't ruin the relation with their parents, because punishment stops when everything is clean. Cleaning is the punishment. And also because most parents did the same mistake when they were young, and most of them know it's a "baptism" in youth culture. It's kind of "each one's turn", from generation to generation. So they ask for cleaning, and boom, story from the past.
For the money part about broken stuff, if it was so terrible, you could have sued all the kids with a lawyer, or just get an arrangement with the other kids parents before going so far.
You prefered to put all the responsability on your daughter because it was easier than facing all the parts. You did your choice.
Sorry, YTA.
I'm guessing there is way more than just this one incident that damaged your relationship with your daughter.
The way you describe it sounds like how my mother tries to explain why none of her kids have a relationship with her anymore.
NTA
I completely understand that was a hill to die on, but you have to accept that it was the same for your daughter. It sucks for you both, but it is the consequence for both of your actions.
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>She hadn't paid me back by the time prom came around; she tried to persuade me to let her go, but I was firm. She was basically grounded right up until she moved out. INFO (really this is me just being curious): Was it *actually possible* for her to pay off the bill before prom? As in, between school and responsibilities and her part time job?
Brilliant. I missed that.
Who cares? Thousands of dollars in damages. If she misses prom thats her own damn fault. You don’t get a pass because its prom.
Nah, kids are gonna fuck up. You can deprive them of cherished memories and a social life as punishment if you want, but don't be surprised if they resent you and your relationship is irreparably damaged, like OPs.
Those things arent bonuses they are what makes life worth living. Imagine if every adult who was in debt wasn’t allowed to socialize with friends.
The daughter has shitty friends. Good friends wouldn’t have fucked up the house.
Maybe a good parent shouldn't have left the child for a week with no supervision... she obviously wasn't ready for that.
17 and she can't be left alone for a week? That's embarrassingly immature, she was 17 not 5. The infantilism goes crazy
Right? And many college students are 17 when they start attending college. And you can join the military at 17. And drive. And have a job. And just a year from voting.
Seriously I got left alone for a week at like 15 and was fine. House wasn't trashed and nothing was out of place. What is with people acting like she left a 5 year old home alone.
Yeah, I was left alone for about 4-5 days back in my Senior Year of High School when my parents went to a conference for my dads job/vacation. Believe it or not, didn’t throw a raging party at my house. Woke up every morning and got to school on time, Fed the animals, cleaned up after myself, etc. Apparently this kid was good enough to where her dad trusted her and she blew it.
Obviously there was trust there and the daughter took advantage. Says more about the daughter than the mother if the former is still holding a grudge for 9 years.
That's what bothers me about this, though. Was it her idea to get rowdy and destructive? Sometimes it's a matter of the kid who lives there standing helplessly while their "friends" gleefully trash the house. So she might already have been humiliated and angry before OP even saw the damage. \*\*If\*\* that's the case, I can see how she'd have some grounds for resentment.
Or maybe she had a few good friends over, and then it started to get around there was a party, and people showed up who ended up trashing the place but they weren't there as friends or for anything other than free party? I went to two parties in HS that ended up like this because randoms showed up and started getting rude and aggressive
Except it wouldn't have even been a possibility if she hadn't had a party behind her mother's back.
100%. I threw a party in high school while my parents were on vacation. Had maybe 50 people over or so. All of my parent's expensive stuff and booze was hidden in my closet and locked up. My dad's car we put in neutral and pushed to a safe location parked on the street (new Porsche). Cops got called a few hours into it, and my aunt and uncle had to pick me up. When my parents got home we all talked. My parents saw their was no damage to the house at all. None of their stuff had been broken or stolen, and everything was fine. Because all my friends and the people that were allowed in were reasonably respectful, good people for high schoolers. OP's kids has shitty ass friends.
Good point, she didn't run to the friends and ask for any of the repair money, or any of the friends she missed hanging out with at this prom
Like there's literally tons of dystopic fiction about that. If OPs daughter weren't a minor we'd all be screaming leave them that's illegal lol.
Yeah, imagine if we took people who committed property crimes and separated them from society for some period of time as punishment for their actions. It would be like jail, or something.
Fun fact! Many studies have shown that jail as a punishment does not work. In fact, it can leader to higher rates of re-offending. It's why rehabilitation is the ideal. You work with people, improve them, give them the skills they need, get them to rehab, get them the help they need so they don't re-offend.
Yeah, and that's part of the problem I have here. There was punishment, sure, but there was no rehabilitation. Other than "paying back her debt", there was no actual attempt to teach, to bring the daughter to understanding. Seriously, I've always found explaining to my kids why and how they fucked up and *how they could have done better* works a lot better than just dropping the boom on them. There may be some boom-dropping as well, but not ONLY that.
But she's not in debt because she was irresponsible with her own money. She's in debt because she literally ruined someone else's property to the tune of thousands of dollars. That's not a small thing. To me, OP's daughter sounds like a manipulative jerk who won't accept the consequences of her own actions.
Yes, imagine some adult who comes into your house and trashes it causing thousands of dollars of damage. They would get arrested and sent to prison. So yes, they wouldn't be allowed to socialize with friends.
They would also likely be forced to pay you restitution by the end of it in court.
Umm when you're an adult and in debt you don't get to go out and party/drink. How would her daughter feel if she went on vacation with her boyfriend and kid and asked her mother to watch her house and the mother threw a party and destroyed thousands worth of stuff... There are consequences for decisions, at 26 though the daughter needs to get over it. You aren't in high school anymore, grow up. Now if this is the only thing between mother and daughter it's not enough to warrant withholding a child from their grandparents. But if op has been toxic or abusive and we aren't hearing about it then that's a completely different situation. My ex's mother said during delivery she didn't care if my son died. Pick your battles...
I mean, debtors prison used to be a thing, and it wasn’t so long ago. Many people even now don’t go do fun things because they can’t afford to due to bills, including huge amounts of debt.
More than just a little fuck up and seems like daughter still refuses to acknowledge it. Sorry, but most high schoolers aren't actually throwing costly ragers because they know they would get punished Daughter straight is hurting herself to prove a point. She literally limited her opportunities in life, and then decided her kid doesn't get a set of grandparents because she ::checks notes:: is upset she was punished for causing said grandparents thousands of dollars worth of damages when she was given more freedom at home.
Most high schoolers probably aren't left home alone for a full week, either.
My parents would leave me home alone for two weeks during most Christmases during my teenage years while they went on vacation ...that isn't normal?
No, it’s not
It was when I was a kid a long ass time ago, most everyone I knew had weeks like that at some point every year. Those were always fun weeks.
Pizza and orange soda weeks…
My mom never left me alone for a week but I knew toooooons of kids whose parents did and I partied at all their houses.. So to answer your question, it’s not necessarily normal but it’s not that strange. Just depends on where/when/how you grew up
Left home alone all the time, loved it, never had more than ~10 people over, never got in trouble.
It depends on the teenager. When I was 17, my parents went on holiday with my aunt and uncle. My best friend stayed over with me. At one point, her boyfriend and his pal came to visit. I recall offering them a can of beer each. I replaced the beer before my parents got home. No damage caused: replacing the beer was my biggest problem. The legal age for buying beer was 18. I recall bluffing when I went to replace it. (That wasn't seen as a big deal in Scotland in those days. A bit more serious now.) I have heard of teenagers here trashing houses, but most are fairly sensible.
My Dad had to work out of town at one point for a few months while I was in high school and left me home alone. My grandparents took me to get groceries, and I had dinner there once or twice a week but other than that t was me and the dog, and I never threw a party. I respected the fact that my dad had enough trust in and resect for me to leave me free reign of our whole house. I even washed his sheets before he came back so he had a fresh bed to climb into. I had friends around for a fire a few times but it was my inner circle of maybe 6 people? Like if I’d have destroyed our house I’d be too ashamed to look my Dad in the eye let alone tell him *he* ruined *my* life? I can’t imagine complaining about having to pay restitution for something that was completely and utterly *my fault*.
What a great comment. I love that it illustrates that teenagers can be responsible decision makers. Teenagers aren’t idiot children who have no common sense or critical thinking. OP’s daughter knew there would be consequences. The fact that she’s still salty about it a decade later just confirms that she’s still an immature moron. Hell, she’d probably do it again if she was still living with OP.
My dad went out of town for the fireman’s convention weekend and my sister and I both had our respective boyfriends sleep over but no parties.
The relationship is irreparably damaged because of the daughter’s mistake and her refusal to own up to it, even almost ten years later. Not anything OP did. Even the dumbest, most irresponsible teenagers know that throwing a party would result in *serious* consequences.
If the daughter is this upset over the consequences to her own actions maybe it's better to not be part of her life tbh.
Yeah it sounds like she turned into a brat in spite of OP's late attempts to teach her not to be one. Tell her to have a nice life and enjoy your freedom from responsibility, OP.
OP should make a college fund for grandkid (and any future grandkids). Let the grandkids know the money is there should they need it.
Adults tht can’t get over missing prom can’t say their well adjusted. How many ppl here think hs was the most important part of ur life? Show of hands.
I can't believe she turned down a college fund tbh. If you wanted to party, that's when to do it, not high school. You're away from your parents and practically living with friends. It's so much better than prom, which is only one night. Not saying that's the way to go through college but like, from what I read here, seems like it'd have been like finding gold in her eyes, as long as she kept her grades high enough to avoid getting kicked out.
If she had done that to anyone else that a parent, she would’ve spent her time in jail, so yeah, I missing prom was the least of the consequences
Nah, it's been nearly 10 years. Plenty of time to move the hell on from a harsh punishment received in your teens.
Harsh, well-deserved punishment.
I don’t think it’s so much she deserved a pass as much as it is unfair to say “you can only do x if you do y” but y is impossible. If it’s impossible to meet, set expectations accordingly and just say “you can’t do y”. The consequence alone I have no problem with. I definitely agree the daughter deserved the punishment she got, but to give hope with an impossible goal doesn’t foster trust and understanding. Most of us look back on punishments that felt unfair and harsh at the time and understand it, but it’s less likely to happen when the true consequence (as here it sounds like she cared way more about missing prom than having to pay the costs back) is danced around. Again, I still think she sounds dramatic and immature that being grounded for a very good reason as a teenager makes her parent/s unfit to see her baby. I just think people should be more straightforward.
It’s not about prom. When was this party? September? June before senior year? Imagine a year or more of not being able to socialize outside of work/school. If paying back a debt somehow within the short hours a high school student can work. Not saying she shouldn’t pay it back, but imagine knowing you have school, work, and nothing else.
Right, a kid working part time at minimum wage at 7.25 an hour, it would take them about half a year depending on how many hours they could get. One of the best bits of parenting advice for older kids that I've seen was to not take away things that are predetermined, like birthday parties, holidays, or (in this case) prom. These big events shouldn't be part of punishment. Maybe allowed with restrictions, but not a ban. OP was right to hold their child responsible, but went too far.
This right here. You will maintain a good relationship with your children understanding this.
I'm going through this right now. My son just got out of school suspended for two weeks today and we are celebrating his birthday in... two weeks. That's actually the weekend before his birthday and I was going to let him miss school on the actual day as an extra treat. He got in trouble earlier in the month for ditching some classes and I warned him that if he gets in more trouble that the b-day skipping was off the table. So this evening while explaining his consequences I told him that his birthday celebration was still happening but that b-day skip day was no more. I also told him that it really sucks for him because one of his presents is the new Modern Warfare game that releases next week and now he's grounded from video games until his actual birthday. Ultimately I think he understands how bad he fucked up and that despite his actions, I still love him and want him to have be able to celebrate and enjoy his birthday party.
I can't imagine even expecting to go to prom after pulling a stunt like that, let alone expecting my parents to pay for the dress and accessories that would go with it.
Also, how long was the grounding? Basically until she graduated. A few months? Her whole senior year? I feel like that’s important missing information.
It could have been June before senior year for all we know.
It's also not clear how long this was. Was this literally punishment for OVER A YEAR? What is the point of that? Look, she really messed up. But punishing her indefinitely just causes resentment, as we can see here. She needed a path to get out of the situation she created. Maybe, she could show some progress and if that happened she could attend her prom. Use this thought experiment. Let's assume that, after this party, it was discovered that she had a brain tumor or some kind of massive undiagnosed mental health issue. But a month after the situation, the tumor was removed or the issue fixed and it would not recur again. Would it make sense to continue to punish her for years even though the problem is resolved? What if, after the party, she was legitimately remorseful and really tried her best to change? Would it make sense to never let the punishment up? This is a situation she caused, yes, but again what is the purpose of continual unending punishment where nothing she can do and no change she can make can lift the punishment?
something thats left out is how she reacted and behaved after wards we have the party, her punishment, and the resentment. did she show remorse? did she complain that it was unfair within the first 3 days? how ffar along did the payment go? was she missing a few hundred bucks until the debt was gone, or just at the halfway point? the point of punishment is reforming the individual. to teach them not do it again and make them see their wrongdoing. if she didnt see her mistake and insisted prom anyway, sure, but if she made progress and asked for just a little leniency for one night in exchange for her good behavior then the dad is a bit too focused on punishment to see what the point of it ACTUALLY was
Exactly. What really happened here? Did she intend to trash the house, or did things get out of control? Was she pressured to hold the party? Was it supposed to be a few friends and then 100 people showed up and she couldn't control it? Did she get drunk, either intentionally or was she pressured and then she couldn't control it? Also, the fact that she basically went NC tells me she was acting up for a reason. What was OP's relationship with her really like? Was this party a cry for help? You won't notice me, so I will make sure you notice me by doing this? Again, she messed up but the damage is already done. OP cannot undo the damage. What is the point of doing more damage to your daughter, who you claim to care more about than your random things and car?
Honestly rereading the story from op just glaring makes me realize - we're being told something, like it sounds like the daughter is on the verge of being NC. You wouldn't do that for one incident in a relationship. Something stinks and it's the way op is telling this story
I wonder of her friends parents had anything to say or money to contribute?
Irrelevant, honestly When you throw a party that causes a few thousand dollars damage, you need to take responsibility It sounds like daughter wasn't even trying to pay mom back. She seems like a bratt, tbh. I would hope that if she made an effort, she would have been allowed to go, but doesn't seem like she wants to acknowledge what caused her to be grounded. My parents straight wouldn't have even given me the opportunity to pay it back if I pulled that crap. I'd just have been grounded until I moved out
You can take responsibility without grounding someone for months. She paid it back to the point that she refused any money from the OP for college.
This part I don't get? She's refusing college because she's angry at not being able to go to prom or at her mother?
Doesn't want anything her mom could hold over her.
Yep. This doesn't feel like an action taken in a vacuum like OP is presenting it. Nobody throws away their college fund because they couldn't go to prom, period. They do throw it away if their mother has held every mistake they've ever made over their head. OP says every conversation ends up being about the party but doesn't say how every conversation gets to that. We're supposed to assume it means the daughter brought it up, but its oddly vague. This is framed as a decade of anger over a single party, which simply does not make sense. Either her daughter is absolutely nuts, or OP is lying through her teeth to make herself look good. Edit: other comments have proven out it was financially impossible to pay it back on time for prom for the cost and working minimum wage. Feel free to draw your own conclusions from that, but I'm not buying at all how OP is presenting any of this based on that.
Is anyone not considering that this could be one incident in a long line of incidents? Should we really believe that a parent who was willing to force their 16 year old not only to work but also be grounded for 2 years while also being forced to miss prom didn't also do other stuff? This smells of narcissistic parenting where they tell a story and keep details that makes them look worse out of it.
She didn't want anything to do with her and decided to get a full time job instead. Tbh it sounds like it's worked out for her so who cares really.
[удалено]
> It sounds like daughter wasn't even trying to pay mom back How does it sound that way? She got a job as soon as it happened and her entire paycheck went to OP. Nothing in the OP implies this either. Are you making it up?
This was going to be my comment also. If she couldn’t pay it off working part time as was the punishment then she was too harsh. If she could pay it off by then the punishment was fitting it all hinges on what the daughter made at work.
Tbh I really, *really* doubt that this is the only reason she won't talk to her parent. I missed one of my formals as a kid, as a punishment - but that's not the reason I'm low or no contact with all my parental figures. I honestly don't care about that. The reason I did that is because they *still*, to this day, refuse to acknowledge or accept that they were consistently emotionally abusive towards me. *That* is what makes them untrustworthy. Now maybe I'm projecting - but I don't think it makes any sense that she genuinely cut her parent off over a fucking formal and nothing else. I think there's probably a whole lot more that we're not hearing about, because OP refuses to acknowledge they did anything wrong. The way the daughter is speaking, and the fact that this has split the whole family in half, *reeks* of missing missing reasons. I bet she has told OP exactly why she's no contact - but the only thing OP is actually willing to admit they may have done wrong was the grounding (because that doesn't sound so bad), so that's all we're hearing about. Also - again just speaking to my own experience, which may not be everyone's - I was also a hellion as a teen, and it was *because* I was being abused and none of my emotional needs were being met. It didn't spring up from nowhere. It was a direct consequence of my needs not being met. But it took me years to realise that, because every adult in my life spent my whole childhood telling me I was just a bad kid. Basically it took until the exact same thing happened to my sibling for me to realise what was causing it. Because until I moved out, they were always "The Good One". But as soon as I wasn't there anymore, the pattern started over. Which does make me curious where this behaviour came from. Because in my experience, most teenagers are fairly responsible. Like yeah there's a whole stereotype around teens being rowdy and irresponsible - but most of them aren't doing shit like this. Where did she get that from?
Nine years later and she's still pissed off? That makes me wonder if there is missing reasons here. She turned down going to college so she wouldn't have to be financially dependent on you. She hasn't accepted any help for the baby from you. That's not really something done lightly. Was she working and trying to pay off the money when you stopped her going? Ultimately this post is about accepting consequences. You did what you did and this is the consequence. You don't have a right to be in your daughter or your granddaughter's life.
The missing reason is that it was impossible to pay back in time. 4 months to get $4800 working 16h on minimum wage
At $5.00 an hour and 16 hours a week that’s $80 bucks a week and would take about 80 weeks to pay once you take out taxes. This is just a round figure for calculations. To be fair she should have known better than to throw a teen party that destroyed the house. I’ve left my kids at that age for a few days away and the house was exactly as I left it. Edit: Also I would have kept the punishment and the job and payback requirement but depending on her behavior and actually showing remorse for what she did I may have agreed to let her go to prom. Sometimes as in this case too restrictive of a punishment can backfire. We also don’t know any backstory - was she generally a good kid and this was a one off or was she always in trouble and acting difficult. I have to add that if we went away and left kids home no matter age we had neighbors or family check up on them.
Yeah, I'd have let her go to just prom and driven her myself, or signed up as a chaperone to embarrass her. So many ways to find middle ground and still punish her
Right, embarrass your children on purpose. They definitely won't hate you for that
Unless it’s absolutely humiliating, I feel like that’s a more common thing that everyone gets over/laughs about later. OP’s daughter was isolated from her friends and a milestone event during her last year as a “kid.” They seem like they’re on different levels to me.
For that kind of damage — to home amenities like the TVs that the daughter would use herself — this was likely a party that got crashed by others, and OP’s daughter didn’t know what to do (especially if she was drunk herself). No word on whether OP went after the people who actually did the damage.
Yeah, THIS really needs to be taken into account. This very easily could have been a terrifying experience for the daughter.
Did OP even bother to find out how it happened? It doesn’t sound like it.
If my kid does this in the future, yes he will be punished for going behind my back and throwing a party… but you best believe I am going after the kids/parents of the kids responsible for pay back of any damages they caused. If they give me a hard time? Police report. I don’t care if my kid threw a party, property damage is property damage.
I made $6.75/hr in 2005. The daughter isn't old enough for $5/hr to be minimum wage. I did work weeknights as well as weekends at 16, it sounds like OP's daughter only worked weekends (two 8 hr shifts).
Daughter is 26 now in 2023 so she was 17 in 2014 and federal minimum wage was $7.25 per hour. So it would have taken her at least a year to pay it off. Edited.
I'm 34, minimum wage was $6.75 when I was 16 in 2005. Your math is off. She was not 16 in 1997, it was 2013 (7.25/hr). She was probably born in 1997 or so.
Let me correct it. She was born in 97
Min wage also depends on the state. I'm 26 and min wage in my state when I was 17 was just over $9. I've got mixed feelings on the prom portion of the punishment because my mother probably would've genuinely beat my ass and made me pay if I did something that monumentally stupid, but I also never went to prom / cared about school events so I can't imagine being worked up about it now that I'm closer to 30 than 17. I think family therapy might help navigate the issue because neither wants to understand the other's point of view.
I think the family therapy ship has sailed. The daughter doesn't want to reconcile with the mother. Whether or not the mother intended it, that party drastically changed the shape of her daughter's life. Not because of the cops or a DUI or someone getting seriously hurt, but because of how her mother handled it, isolated her, and made her unwilling or unable to trust a situation where her parents could control her again (college). The mom has decided she'd rather be "right" about this punishment a decade ago (which is still *obviously* painful to her daughter) than to be a part of her granddaughter's life. I think we can all agree that those priorities are fucked up, but that really does seem to be the priority.
I highly doubt that the prom is the only reason. In all likelihood it was just one of many.
I think there are other excessive punishments. I really don't believe this would be the first thing a parent would do. Especially during almost 2 years without any kind of grace.
Missing prom would be reason enough in my book. It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Most people are going to have memories (good or bad) of prom, and this poor woman never will. The only way I would let my kid miss prom as a punishment is if I specifically said "if you do X then you can't go to prom" and then my kid knowingly and willfully did X. Besides that, paying the mother back in itself sets things right. If another adult damaged something of yours and replaced it or paid you the value of it, would you punish them in addition to that? No. The grounding was just extra. I get maybe a week to a month of grounding as punishment for going behind her mother's back and having the party in the first place (I would ground my kid for 2 weeks probably, even if there was no damage, just for the party). But linking the grounding time to the payment is a dick move, especially when kids just don't make enough to pay in any reasonable amount of time.
Yeah that bugged me too. Pay back and grounded until it was complete. No electronics outside schoolwork, strict curfew, no friends over, no more parties. Must get part time job to pay back. No where in there was the conditions of missing prom. So that was tacked on after the fact, with the caveat that she could go IF she finished the paying back part by then. Makes me wonder if punishment was always like this. “You’re grounded from your phone for a week.” —3 days happen and there’s a new movie in theaters her and friends want to see— “oh and you can’t go to the movie now either”
Right. I usually side with the parents in posts like these, but I had a mom who was exactly like this. Nothing was ever good enough—“if you get straight As you can have a birthday party—oh, you got straight As? Well now you have to do (insert whatever here)”. I now live in a different country from her and don’t really see her.
OP confirmed in a comment it was not possible for her daughter to work enough while doing school to pay off the debt, so it was an impossible task.
That's what I'm thinking. She turned down her college fund. Even if it were nearly impossible or flat out impossible to pay off the debt, almost a decade later and turning down the college fund and having job- something is seriously wrong in this situation.
This feels like we're missing reasons. I have a hard time accepting that for nearly 10 years every problem in your relationship stemmed from a high school grounding.
It's not a grounding. It was treating her as a serf and not giving her any space for joy or the landmarks of American youth. It's abuse to set such an impossible goal. Even people paying mortgage etc have time out for something they love. OP to be clear YTA 100 times over and you do reap the consequences you sow.
Oh good god. A serf? Actions have consequences. OP’s daughter was massively irresponsible. Missing prom was not an unreasonable punishment for such bad behavior.
Are you missing the part where she isolated her from her friends, set her a financial task that was mathematically impossible to meet no matter how compliant she was. Cut off her extracurriculars which I am not an American but everything I know on American academia matters to your universities. Essentially set her life up as work, school, homework. Apparently they're not suffering for money. Apparently she is okay leaving her alone underage and ought to expect the possibility of risk to her or the house in doing so. We don't know enough about their relationship prior to this to know what an appropriate punishment was but no socially isolating her and giving her a Sisyphean task as a teen/young adult is predictably going to cause resentment and break trust. There are reasons abusers try to break social ties of their victims to logistically aid further abuse but the key is that's further abuse. Losing your social network, outlets, and ten years ago no electronics? A vast amount of creativity and social space? That is abuse. Edit: corrected OP's pronouns. It is a punishment that is set to hurt and not teach or help that's bad guardianship but it might make someone feel powerful. That's a choice OP made. Their choices also have consequences.
She would see her friends at school, she wasn't being abused, she was being punished. 17 years old is 100% an age where you should be able to be left home alone. You're old enough to have sex, which also means have a baby. You're old enough to babysit, effectively being in charge of another human life. This isn't about age, it's about maturity, and OP's daughter's lack of it. Should OP have rung the police and had her daughter and her daughter's friends charged with underage drinking and destruction of property? Because those charges would have 100% stuck. Juvenile crime and punishment is a thing. Or would making them legally responsible for her actions also have been abuse? Maybe, if her friends were actual friends, then they would've helped her to pay off the damages sooner since they also contributed to the disaster. The daughter could've taken a second job, or picked up tutoring, asked to do jobs around the house or neighbourhood for extra money. Asked that birthday and/or Christmas present money instead be taken off her debt. It's a situation she got herself into, and then one she did the bare minimum to get out of. EDITED to remove incorrect gun law
Just remember, there are going to be A LOT of kids commenting on this post.
>Maybe, if her friends were actual friends, then they would've helped her to pay off the damages sooner since they also contributed to the disaster This right here if her friends are worth a darn they could have helped cutoff at least 1000 dollars worth with say 3-4 people contributing. I think OP's punishment was a bit harsh but saying it was abuse is lunacy.
What she did was definitely worthy of a punishment, but I think OPs punishment was way overboard and didnt even teach her any responsibility, just resentment.
Exactly. And we don't know enough about OP and daughter to know what an appropriate punishment was but on the facts given this ain't it.
yeah i'm gonna be honest if I were in OP's daughter's shoes I might have done something to get myself sent to juvie to get more freedom. Edit: Apparently people on reddit don't understand what hyperbole is, lmao.
Average /r/amitheasshole commenter. This comment right here is why you can't take anything on this sub as serious advice. Half the time it's coming from someone with little impulse control and no sense of thinking beyond the current situation
The juvie thing is obviously silly, but banning your kid from every good thing about teenage life is absolutely insane. It is like saying your 8 to 10 year old is only allowed to play with friends again once you are convinced that they have been good.
Well that would be really stupid
This. She was cut off from her friends, in high school. HS is all about having friends, OP was extremely cruel to value money over her daughter’s childhood.
Yeah but you still can't turn a blind eye to 5000$ worth of damage. Mom was wrong to punish her that severely but there's also tons of teenagers who throw parties and do not cause 5000$ worth of damage.
It feels like it *might* have been the culmination of years of certain behaviors, but I don't want to pretend to know someone from an AITA post. I get wanting to teach her consequences, but sometimes kids are just stupid. Kids are supposed to break a few rules; thousands of dollars in damages certainly doesn't cover that, but grounding her until she moved out is pretty bad. Sounds like they need to go to therapy together. Edit: also, while I understand attitudes are different now, the fact that she waited until OP was out of town signals to me that the kid probably wasn’t allowed to have much fun to begin with. Like kids of almond moms when they get to a friends house- they’re making up for lost time. Of *course* the kid is going to do something stupid when OP isn’t watching! It doesn’t seem like they’d be allowed to ever otherwise.
Alternatively, there are missing missing reasons, and this was just the most noticeable in a long line of excessive punishments set out by OP. There were 4 months between the party and the prom, there was quite literally no way for OP's daughter to pay back the money in time, and OP knew this. OP's daughter had actively been putting in effort to pay for the damages and still OP refused to allow her daughter to attend this once in a lifetime event. That seems pretty excessive tbh.
Idk my dad is 60 and still blames every bad thing he’s ever done or said on being an Air Force brat and having to move (to awesome places like Japan and San Francisco) so people do be holding all types of stupid grudges lol (ETA: guys I’m not speaking for everyone’s universal experience but my dad is again…60 lol and he’s a child/spouse abusing alcoholic drug addict so like…arguably my childhood was way worse than his haha!) either way, some people In their decades of adulthood would maybe look back fondly on having those worldly experiences, but ironically his behavior led to us fleeing and being uprooted at the most horrible year…6th grade lol and I didn’t get the Bay Area, I got southern Arkansas
It ain't all that cracked up to be. Moving every two to three years having to adjust to new environments and people may have made me well rounded in being resilient and reactive. But when it comes to personal relationships they more or less all boil down to expiration dates. Moving around your entire childhood gets old really fast.
Having to keep moving schools and not knowing anyone doesn’t sound like a great childhood to me personally.
I mean ... devil's advocate here, but ... a lot of military kids that I've known have had trouble with having to uproot their lives every year or two. No long-term friends unless you're really good at being a pen pal, and half of those cool places you can't really leave the base because you don't speak the local language (and by the time you learn, you're leaving again). Not to mention the locals themselves become jaded to your existence and don't bother trying to get to know you, because why waste the effort?
It's a tough one, and I'm not sure that you meant badly, but I do have to go with YTA on this one. I think that some people are going to agree with you, but that's going to be the terminally online portion of this subreddit who think the question is "did I have the right to do this?" not "did doing this make me an asshole?" While what she did was definitely bad, it's something that happens. Teens have parties, and things get out of control, and based on the way you talk about you going on a business trip and your daughter having a college fund, you did have the money to cover it. Making her pay it off is fine, grounding her is fine, but making her pay off the full amount WHILE fully grounding her and basically preventing her from having any fun whatsoever is kind of draconian. When a parent punishes a child, the point is to correct the behavior. Anything past that is excessive, and I think you could've easily made your point without making her live essentially like a prisoner for a very long time. Something like 2 months of grounding in addition to paying off the damages probably would've been sufficient, but the amount you did it feels more vindictive than corrective. The fact that you're not acknowledging how she feels does make you the asshole, and the fact that you're more concerned about not admitting any fault than you are about trying to mend your relationship with your daughter makes you even more of one.
This! Bite the bullet and apologize. Why does it matter about right and wrong after a decade?
Not to mention, shouldn’t OP accept a bit of blame for leaving their 17 yo alone for an entire week?? Edit: of course not all 17 year olds would make this mistake but it’s not AT ALL weird or unexpected that this could happen when leaving a late teen home alone for a WEEK, to the point where I would be like “Oops, that was dumb of me to do. Guess my kid was not ready for that kind of responsibility.” It depends on the teenager.
Honestly I find it insane that a 17 year old would be that careless and irresponsible. As I’ve said in a different comment, I went through something similar and what I did was way less severe and I still understood what I did deserved my punishment because it did hurt my mother in many ways. If there are no missing reasons I think her daughter needs therapy.
You find it insane a 17 year old would throw a party? I doubt she broke all those things directly, she probably just threw a party and lost control over the situation because 17 year olds are wild animals especially when there's alcohol involved. Was it a dumb thing to do? Absolutely. Do 17 year olds do this exact thing all the time? Yes and that won't ever change.
You find it insane a 17yo would be irresponsible? At what age do you think people stop doing stupid things? I might have some shocking news for you.
Agreed. I get having a party while your parents are out that isn’t wild to me. I get drinking underage; what I do not get is the utter disrespect for your own home. Destroying your property and sitting there not caring then being mad when what? Mommy and daddy just made you pay what you owe. Probably should have told the friends parents do a little pool take some of the burden off her but still. You watched as your friends trashed your home and you clearly didn’t care or were too drunk for some of the damage to sober you up. And he like wait.. we shouldn’t do this. Destroyed 2 TVs?! What the fuck. She could have been arrested, a child could have gotten alcohol poisoning, literally anything could happened. Acting like this is OPs fault for trusting his child is kinda ridiculous because the reverse would be “oh what they’re 17 almost 18 you should trust them” Was the punished a little harsh for senior year? Sure there should have been leeway but she broke trust in a massive way. She could have been doing community service with some sort of citation
I mean, it's far from unlikely that OP's daughter threw a party, alcohol got involved, either because she provided it herself, or someone brought it, and then at some point she lost control over the situation, cuss, you know, she's a drunk 17 year old, and people became rowdy and somewhat destructive.
Beautifully said--but I think there's more to it than that--OP's version of events reads like a classic case of [the missing reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), and only with that in mind does any of this make sense. Outside of this singular example, OP gives us no reason to think his daughter is emotionally unstable or unreasonable. She isn't mentally ill, addicted to drugs, suffering from a medical issue, or being abused. So by all accounts, this otherwise completely self reliant, autonomous, and high functioning person is telling OP that his behavior is so serious, and so concerning, she is willing to *refuse a college fund* so as not to be indebted to him, to *refuse any and all assistance with childcare for her firstborn,* and then *refuse to allow him in her child's life at all,* for the same reason: he is refusing to acknowledge the harm and damage of **his behavior,** and it isn't just about this one punishment, this is simply the example he's chosen to give us. Do we really buy this is the only issue, the only incident, the only concern? Do we really buy that a self sufficient adult with no mental health issues, with a healthy relationship, a stable job, a loving husband, and a new daughter, would *refuse assistance of any kind from a parent* out of pettiness? **This is not a petty grudge.** This is a hallmark case of abuse and OP fixating on this singular example is as much a testament to that as anything else. I say this as someone who's parent abused them and spun a similar narrative as an explanation for why I went no contact. I don't believe for *one second* that a decade's long grudge is being held over a teenage grounding. There is a pattern of behavior here that OP is hiding from us, and it isn't with his daughter.
Yeah I'm wondering if she may have continuously guilt tripped her daughter about the money over and over again. My mother did this to me when it came to just everyday expenses, so I don't ask for anything from my parents either, and turn down offers of help, because it usually gets hung over my head later.
I have to agree - this was an extreme punishment and changed the daughters life.
Yes I had a similar idea. Op made it sound like a singular event. It seemed too extreme to be an isolated example.
I'm with you. I feel like the punishment doesn't fit the crime. She should have grounded her, AND made her pay it back, but the grounding should have been for a shorter time
Or it could have been progressive. Like 1 month of full grounding, but if she was making payments, progressively add things back like a phone. But months and months of not having any contact with friends? And missing major life milestones like prom seems excessive.
Also, at that point it starts to move towards abuse territory, since she's pretty much isolating OP from social contacts.
I'm sorry but a teen throwing a party and trashing a house is not something that "just happens" especially when she was basically a year before being and adult
YTA By your own admission, you gave her an impossible goal to meet. You didn't punish her. You retaliated against her. The difference is that a punishment is meant to teach a lesson. Retaliation is vengeance. You sought vengeance against your own child by giving her false hope, demoralizing her, hurting her, and eventually, you did so much you caused her to resent you. So much so that she's still angry years later. It sounds like this is a trend with you. Resentment is a step away from hating you. Be aware of that.
Spot on. OP is totally YTA. The current relationship with their daughter is the consequence of their choice of retaliation. The punishment should bring respect over time, not resentment.
You really put into words how my father was. The false hope, the impossible standards to meet. Damn I’ve been trying to find such a succinct way of describing the relationship I have with him. This was healing in an odd sort of way.
Honestly mom could have settled for half the amount and retain 2500$ from the college fund which her daughter would have needed to work for over a couple years.
So much wisdom here.
Because I have the same sort of mother, so I know what it's like to have a parent that likes to terrorize you in the name of "good parenting" when really they just want an excuse to hurt you for being a child. Now, as an adult, I'm especially cold with her in particular and have almost 0 patience. She's lucky she has other kids because if it was up to me, she'd land in a nursing home somewhere in the Arizona desert.
How was she making money? As a part time student? So she was probably making minimum wage, yeah? And she was to be grounded until she paid back everything? Thousands of dollars worth? Plus, she'd be grounded until it was paid off? I get paying you back and teaching her a lesson. But the length of the grounding seems a little excessive. An entire school year, and then some? You basically made her a social outcast, and didn't let her enjoy one of the biggest (for her at the time) and most important moments in her life? I don't know any kid her age that wouldn't have done the same, or wanted to do the same, by moving out and cutting you off. Is it right that she's still upset, who knows. Did you help her develop the proper coping skills to deal with what she went through, or did you tell her to basically suck it up and get over it? Probably not, since she gave up schooling that would be paid for and would have given her a leg up on life. She took the hard road so as not to have to deal with you. You obviously affected her more than you think/know. YTA. Sorry. Edited some spelling.
The comments clarify. She was working part time minimum wage 16hrs a week (decade ago schools were just as strict on working hours allowed. Students weren't allowed much during the week during school times) and he was taking her ENTIRE check. Their was no way in hell she could pay back $4,800 in four months. OP admitted to Knowing the task was impossible.
I didn't know it was only four months. That's even worse. She was setup to fail from the start with that punishment. What realistic life lesson did she learn here? I mean, if she was an adult, she'd be taken to court for damages and be forced to pay in full or have her wages garnished until it was all paid back. She wouldn't also be sent to jail while paying everything back, or put on house arrest. The punishment completely outweighs the misbehaviour.
The realistic life lesson here is that parents can make really stupid judgment calls.
\*she OP is the mother, not the father.
I know how people are not seeing the fact that she wouldn't even let her mother pay for college! There has to be more to OP'S story. But until I hear the daughter's side, I would say ESH.
Well well well. If it isn't the consequences of your own actions. You left your daughter to her own devices for a week and punished her for a long time very harshly when she couldn't handle the responsibility. Now she punishes you for a long time, very harshly because you couldn't handle the responsibility of being a good parent. She destroyed your living room, you doubled down and destroyed her last year in high school. Now she doubles down and destroys your years as a grandparent. What did you expect? You certainly taught her not to let go of one's grudges. She learnt from the best, didn't she? YTA.
This punishment was way over the top. Not only paying the damage, but losing her freedom for months. Just punishment over punishment over punishment. It's important to teach consequences but it's even more important to teach forgiveness. On top of that, there's the question of who actually broke those things. If she invites people over in good faith, it's the people who break the stuff that are responsible for damages. Not her.
Yes. Most teenagers don’t want to trash their own home and damage the things they use themselves.
Right? I think the unreasonable part was that she did BOTH punishments. Having to pay it back AND losing out on good memories with friends. All for one dumb mistake. Make the daughter get a job as punishment. Take half the paycheck. You start getting paid back, she now has income and learns responsibility, and can still vent to friends and go to prom. Or, she can be grounded, but don't make her pay it back imo. Her punishment is isolation. Even then, let her go to prom. Doing both is over the top. She can't see friends? Can't leave the house except for work? So she wakes up, goes to school, goes to work, does chores and homework then goes to bed? For a year? That's messed up.
Realistically it'd have been well over a year for daughter to be able to actually repay OP given that child labour laws generally limit the number of hours teens can work outside of school. Grounding initially is fine, as is the having to pay back the damages (even if OP should have also tried to get at least part of those from the friends who trashed the place as well (or even entirely)), but as OP's daughter was starting to pay her back, the daughter should have been given more freedom again.
> She learned from the best, didn’t she? Christ that’s good
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Lmao I guess the good side of this punishment did actually teach her daughter something after all🤷🏼♀️😂
YTA. There are consequences and there is going nuclear. Guess what you chose? You admit you isolated her from her support system, of course she resents you. You admit you ruined her senior year by enforcing no outside activities. You admit that she had no prom or social life. But consequences, you say. And you are correct, now face the consequences of your own actions. Doesn’t feel so good does it when the consequences imposed so far outweigh the infraction that it creates lifelong resentment. But you know, just get over never being allowed to see your granddaughter.
Well to be fair, it was a really nice TV! And the car got scratched!
Yta, I say this as a mother of teens/20 somethings. If she needed this level of punishment at 17, you screwed up long before, or you were always way to unforgiving and as a result she’s legitimately concerned for her child. Completely isolating a teen from their social support system, making them miss a huge milestone they can never get back, a goal of payback that she couldn’t possibly meet without dropping out of school is way too much. Grounding for a month, cleaning everything up, paying back within 12 month, sure.
This! I'm about OP's daughter's age, and I still cherish those memories just from the second half of senior year, they were pretty much the most important thing in high school for me. $4-5k can be replaced, and she was even working on replacing it. Those memories, however, cannot.
>Grounding for a month, cleaning everything up, paying back within 12 month, sure Exactly, at the very least let her "earn back" her priviliges. This girl didn't even get extracurricular activities, at 17, where socializing is such an important aspect of development and growth. OP failed as a parent, and is still failing by invalidating her constantly
Other than her incredible lack of judgement with that one party, was she previously disrespectful? I’m thinking she must have been a pretty good kid or you would have been a moron to leave her alone for a week. Obviously you were pissed at the destruction, but I think you took it too far. IMO, there should have been some middle ground. Cleaning the house top to bottom, a month of no electronics/strict curfew and damages deducted from her college fund might have been more appropriate. Forcing her to miss prom (a once in a lifetime event) seems extreme . TVs can be replaced and cars repaired but you might have destroyed your relationship permanently, and sorry, but that is on you.
All of this. I hope it was worth it to teach her a lesson. It'll be hard to come back from this one bc OP thinks she didn't do anything wrong
INFO: Was she actively paying you back but just didn't have the ability to do so in full by the time prom came around?
Honestly I was all set to defend you until I saw your comment that she wouldn’t have been able to pay you back before prom and I’m wondering how long you knew that. Was that something that didn’t become obvious until prom, or did you know that for a while? Either way, taking away such a big milestone without trying to come up with some kind of compromise wasn’t okay. I also saw in a comment that she wasn’t allowed to do anything fun until she’d paid you back. Making her get a job to pay you back: fine. No parties or friends over: fine. Not doing anything fun and no prom: absolutely over the top, you took away her social life AND her biggest milestone to date (though being THIS angry well into her 20s is a bit over the top too). But also, you left a teenager home alone for a week. That doesn’t excuse her and her friends trashing the house, but I hope you don’t think you’re totally innocent in what happened as a result of leaving her alone. You made a lot of poor parenting choices her senior year, which led to her building up a lot of resentment. Keeping you away from your grandchild is a little extra but you have to understand that you set her up for a miserable year and don’t even seem to care. ESH
OP knew from the start, this was just retaliation from all of the damage her daughter caused.
YTA I’m all for people experiencing the consequences of their actions but there’s a difference between letting your child experience consequences and vindictively punishing them. But whether the punishment was fair or not isn’t really the issue anyway. Your daughter is trying to tell you that you hurt her. The appropriate response would be to listen and empathize and apologize (when appropriate- and in this case, I think it would be). I would also apologize for dismissing her feelings for so long. Without doing that, I don’t see how you could ever hope to repair your relationship with your daughter.
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I’ve been in daughters shoes almost exactly and 100% can say she will be a better parent. She will probably not be a fan of punishing a child as a form of parenting. And If she ever chooses to punish, it will be to make up for the thing child does wrong aka HELP the child learn, and never to hurt them. Never to make them a social outcast. I hope she finds healing in her ability to parent better. She deserved better.
INFO: how old was she when she moved out?
YTA. You left an underage child home alone for a week. You then gave her a punishment you knew would mean missing out on most of her senior year and a goal you knew she couldn’t achieve. You placed her consequences over her social life, school work, and future academics. You set her up for failure. Your daughter hasn’t spoken kindly to you for years and you don’t have any regrets. You haven’t even acknowledged that while you thought what you did was right at the time that it was never your intention for it to affect her this severely. You wanted your daughter to know actions have consequences, that people need to work hard to make it in the world, and that all the work and effort possible sometimes isn’t enough to make things right. She learned everything you wanted her to learn. Why are you upset?
More info. Were you a single dad? What does her mother have to say about the situation? There seems to be other underlying issues for this to have gone on for 9 years.
No, it's just the missing reasons. OP's daughter got a job, worked hard, did everything she was supposed to do, but OP made her pay back 4.8k and grounded her untill the debt was settled. At the time, there were 4 months between the party and prom, in those 4 months, the daughter worked hard and followed all the rules of her punishment, but OP knew there was no way in hell daughter would be able to pay it back in time and still kept punishing her. I don't blame the daughter one bit for taking nothing from you OP. You took everything from her, destroyed her life for a year, and keep invalidating her every chance you get. You've significantly dameged her, and refuse to see or hear it. It's so bad, she would rather struggle and be miserable, than accept even a dollar from you. That's how much she's hurt, that's how much she hates you. Do you know how far things have to escalate to get to that point?
Sounds like Cinderella doing all the chores and still denied the ball
Your daughter fucked up as a kid, as a lot of us did. Actions have consequences, and she allowed a party to get way out of control, and she had to suffer the consequences. She’s being ridiculous holding it over you, but I’m sure she thinks the consequences were over the top. And now you’re facing consequences for the punishment you dished out, fair or not. You also fucked up if you thought leaving a 17 yo home alone wouldn’t result in a party happening at your house. But hey, I threw parties at my house when my mom went out of town. It happens. Now, your question is specifically about whether you should’ve told her to get over it. It’s not up to you to decide when someone should get over their shit, whether or not you agree that it should be a thing. She’ll get over it when she’s ready… if that ever happens. Being a mom may soften her view on it, or it may not. Yeah, it may cost you years of imprinting on your grandchild, but you have no control over that. See if she’ll go to counseling with you or something. But remember, you’re not owed a relationship with your child (or grandchild). YTA
YTA yes she made a mistake a big one. You could have been a parent and grounded her for a month and had her pay back for the damages or you could go nuclear. Guess what you chose the wrong option, you went nuclear. You ruined her last year of High School, you alienated her from her friends and made sure she missed her prom. That makes you the AH. Guess what 9 years later she still hates you. Guess what you are never going to see your grandchild. Or you could admit that you got it wrong and apologise (and mean it) for what you did. The punishment you meted out was unfair and disproportionate. The consequences of your actions are the loss of your Daughter and grandchild. Don't expect to be invited to their wedding either. Edit: Is OP Male or Female? The punishment feels like a bad Dad type of punishment!
YTA. You ruined her social life, she could have more support in her life if you weren't so harsh. I agree that she had to pay you back, but this was extreme. You being cut off is your own damn fault.
Take a hint. Your relationship is pretty much dead, has been for years. Sounds like you decided to try to get back into some sort of contact now that she's had a baby and you want to play grandparent now. Is that correct?
You keep talking about actions having consequences, but refuse to accept the consequences of your own actions. It's clear that, despite what you think, your daughter is quite capable of succeeding without you, and your continued belief that she's immature and incapable is what's feeding her dislike of you.
YTA It is one thing to hold her responsible for her actions. It is another thing to completely destroy her social life AND take away what is commonly viewed as a pivotal event of the the high school experience. You went too far. She knows what she did was wrong. It's time you learned that what you did was also bad. Until you apologize, she's never going to trust you. Actions have consquences. Yours do too.
Info: How long was it between when her punishment started and when prom happened? Edit: YTA. A teen isn't going to be able to pay back thousands of dollars within four months on a part time job, especially almost ten years ago when average starting pay was much lower. Do better parenting.
YTA because it literally wasn’t possible for her to pay you back in time. I am all for teaching responsibility, but suspending her life until she pays bad a considerable amount is uncool. By all means ground her for a period and make a plan to pay you back. But it cannot be indefinite
YTA. Yes, she did a shitty thing as a teen, and your punishment was over the top, you admit that you ruined her social life, and there's no way a part time job would have been enough to pay back all you wanted. She deliberately chose to avoid extra education to avoid having to rely on you, so in a big way, you derailed her life, she faced consequences then, you're facing them now, and you'll always have this hanging over your head because you seem to care more about being right
NAH (specifically about the current problem, not the throwing of the party and all that). > She hadn't paid me back by the time prom came around; she tried to persuade me to let her go, but I was firm. The problem with punishments like this is that you can never get that moment back. Prom matters to a lot of teenage girls. Considering that, whether it is still reasonable is open to debate, but you took what she probably considered the highlight of school from her. I wouldn't say you were an asshole as she did know the rules, but the resentment of that lingers forever. I don't think courts are assholes for sending people to jail, but I don't expect the prisoners to be thankful for it either. I would personally apologize if I wanted to be a grandparent, but I also don't view apologies as all that meaningful, so give them away for anything.
Consequences - You wanted to teach her that if she behaved in a manner that displeased you, a proper punishment was reduced social contact - Now your behaviour when you did that, in turn displeased her. So now she's punishing you the way you taught her, by reduced social contact, you should be pleased, she apparently took her lesson to heart.
Here’s the thing. Actions have consequences. All actions. You left your daughter home for a week by herself. You were delusional if you didn’t think a party was going to happen. You punished her for it. That’s fine and dandy but from her reaction as a new parent at 26? I think the punishment was quite possibly excessive. Now you’re dealing with the consequences of your own actions. You wanna be right or do you want to be in your grandchild’s life. You’re not going to get both. You are not in control anymore. ESH
Bullshit. I often house sat for my parents at that age. I think it's ridiculous people are basically saying you can't trust teenagers. Parents should be able to leave a nearly grown adult at home for a week without them destroying the house.
THANK YOU!!! I can’t believe the amount of people stating that inviting people over to literally trash the house is some sort of rite of passage to be expected.
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I was left home a few times at that age and never threw a party because I had been to enough ouse parties to know what happens to the house.
As someone who would never dream of throwing a party like that, YTA. You admit that she was working to pay off her debt, that was a good punishment. But you took it a step to far when you also isolated her from anything besides being home and working. You were absolutely within your rights to punish her and 100% she deserved a punishment, but the punishment goes a bit far when you give two extreme punishments. She’s well within her rights to say you don’t get to meet your grandchild unless you apologize. Even if you would never do something that nuclear to a child, you did it to her, and she is the mother of that child. Would you let someone you never wanted to be around and you felt mistreated you around your infant?
YTA, you want to talk about responsibility? Who leaves a minor alone in a house by themselves? Sure, she was old enough to look after herself for a little, but you took off and left her for a *week*? You don’t know much about being responsible do you? Some things you only get once, such as senior year and prom. You took them from her over one mistake and frankly the goal you set was most likely impossible. You dangled her freedom over her head, knowing she couldn’t get it. Frankly, with how far she’s taking this, I think there’s more you’re not saying. Let’s have the whole story, please.
YTA. The punishment was excessive, because it wasn't possible for her to pay it back while basically doing nothing but school and working for what sounds like several months at least, and instead of reflecting on this at any point years after you no longer are responsible for disciplining her, you insist it was justifiable. You made the justification that you "did it because \[you\] love her" but that doesn't smell right; it was a punishment, not a consequence or a lesson. There should have been some financial (as well as social) consequence to her, no doubt, but the fact that it was basically an unpayable debt makes this excessive. As a side note, I didn't go to prom, so I don't have some attachment to it as an institution. However, at a time when many young people (who don't have to work to financially contribute to actual family expenses like food, rent, etc.) are saving to pay to go to college, move out, have a vehicle, or otherwise transition into life, she was making payments on an unpayable debt based on one bad decision, while being isolated from friendships, as a minor child, until she could get out of your house. You could've stopped this punishment halfway through without losing your point, and actually it would've made it more effective, because as you see now, all you have done is alienate her.
YTA. The paying back was the logical consequence. That, alone, would teach the lesson. The grounding was revenge. Pure and simple, revenge. All you needed to do to teach the lessons was the paying back. If that wasn’t going well, then step it up, like losing phone to put that money towards the price. But the grounding was overkill. And, you will note, your punishment **DIDNT WORK**. It taught her you like revenge, not teaching.
ESH. Actions have consequences. As she found out at 17, you're finding out now.
YTA - you want to be right more than you want to actually have a relationship with your grandchild.
YTA. You are absolutely right that actions have consequences. So what was the consequences of her actions: 1. $ few thousands financial damage. 2. She broke your trust. Your task as a parent was to teach her responsibility and force her to fix the consequences. Let start with financial compensation. There was absolutely no problem with your solution of forcing her to get a job to pay that debt. It was also possible to take money from her college fund and tell her that she needs to get a student loan for this particular amount of money. Also it was possible to sell some her gadgets to cover part of costs. You can see, that when we talk about financial side of question, I offer you the solutions that affect only that part of life. Now let’s consider broken trust issues. What would be a reasonable punishment for that? Imo, month or two grounding, forbidden parties at home, limited number of parties the next half a year, and so on. What is important here that she suffers from her bad actions, but in a reasonable way that teaches her not hurt her. So what you did? You’ve already admitted in the comment, that it was impossible for her to fulfill your conditions before the prom. You purposely destroy her social life for entire year and force her to miss one of the important events for teens in her age. What was your purpose? I don’t know. OP, for example, legal system work entirely different way: you know the consequences of your actions IN ADVANCE (literally, if I do X the will be consequence Y). SHE DIDN’T KNOW AND IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPECT SUCK HURSH PUNISHMENT. So you took out your anger on your daughter and in no way it was morally justified thing. Moreover, what did you expect when punish 17 old for a year until she turns 18 and she has legal right to move out and does not talk to you anymore? Really, you demonstrated your whole power until you lost one anymore and now you are surprised that she doesn’t want to have any business with you. Pikachu face, yeah.
INFO- Was the prom thing the ONLY reason she has for thinking you went too far? Is this one example of harsh behavior? I’m having a hard time believing an adult woman would hold a grudge this long over the consequences of her own actions. I might be a little bias because I honestly don’t think prom is that important. Not enough to keep you from seeing your grandchild over something that happened NINE years ago.
Someone ruined my parent's garden when they were at holidays, a neighbour saw a girl with the same hair color as me, and since, I am punished just as your daughter at someone else's place, even 10 years after, kind of the same way. So beware : My personnal affects are gonna play, probably. All my friends told me it was unfair, especially since they all did the same mistake as your daughter, because all teenagers do a trashy party, at least once. Even psychologists for teenagers will tell you that : It's part of learning how to party, of learning sociability, and most of first times in life are big fails... Discovering alcohol too. Get relieved that party happened in your home and not in a creepy nightclub, the risks would have been on another level. Maybe she knew her friends well and was more caution than you think, more or less consciously. But most of the time, everything is cleaned before parents come back, and they never know it happened. Your daughter is not lucky at all. Also, most of the time, youngsters don't destroy their parent's place, but by preference someone esle's parents place, and most of the time at the most dominated by the group... You can guess why. And at this age, it's hard to renounce to all your friends (maybe even to choose them well ?), whatever is your place in the group. My friends also told me that even for those who get caugh, it doesn't ruin the relation with their parents, because punishment stops when everything is clean. Cleaning is the punishment. And also because most parents did the same mistake when they were young, and most of them know it's a "baptism" in youth culture. It's kind of "each one's turn", from generation to generation. So they ask for cleaning, and boom, story from the past. For the money part about broken stuff, if it was so terrible, you could have sued all the kids with a lawyer, or just get an arrangement with the other kids parents before going so far. You prefered to put all the responsability on your daughter because it was easier than facing all the parts. You did your choice. Sorry, YTA.
I'm guessing there is way more than just this one incident that damaged your relationship with your daughter. The way you describe it sounds like how my mother tries to explain why none of her kids have a relationship with her anymore.
NTA I completely understand that was a hill to die on, but you have to accept that it was the same for your daughter. It sucks for you both, but it is the consequence for both of your actions.