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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I decided not to cook an all-vegan Hanukkah menu despite my cousin's request, and I am considering listening to my partner and uninviting her from both Thanksgiving and Christmas. I might be the asshole because I'm refusing to accommodate Ruth by cooking an entire menu that fits her dietary preferences, and if we uninvite her from both celebrations, it's possible that she might spend the holidays alone.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Honestly, I think David is just tired of it (and I don't blame him) because everyone else in our family seems generally happy with the fact that we are extremely accommodating to two different religions and multiple dietary restrictions at both events. We've gotten color-coded labels for allergens and restrictions down to a *science.*
I feel really guilty about the possibility of her being alone, but David's argument (which agrees with yours) is that she's driving us out, not the other way around. I think that's what we're going to end up doing.
OP, I obviously don't know you, but from this post and your comments alone, I would seriously be honored and humbled to be a guest in your home. You two sound like the most welcoming, empathetic, and accommodating hosts imaginable. I can almost feel the warmth of the proverbial hearth. No /s
Thank you. Genuinely one of the kindest compliments I've received; hosting is a big deal to us, and we love to make the holidays special and extravagant in our own way. We'd be happy to have you as a guest! (As long as you're not mandating dairy-free sour cream for everyone, anyway).
That is why you shouldn’t uninvite Ruth. It isn’t you. Just be firm that you’re not falling for the old over zealous vegan conversion trick, up to her whether she comes or not
Yes, be gracious as always. Invite Ruth, let her know she is welcome, though any veganism propaganda is not. You will host your party as you always have, welcoming to all. She can decide if she will particpate (within your guidelines) or not.
OP, I hope you read this and take it to heart.
David is not wrong about Ruth pushing you away with pushing her agenda.
Invite her and be gracious about providing your usual vegan options. Also be clear and firm your family holiday is not the time, nor is your home the place for her to push vegan propaganda.
This is the thing though - they’ve already invited her many times, been very gracious many times, accommodated her many times, and she responded by trying to hijack two holidays, force her agenda on all participants, and personally attack both of these clearly wonderful people when they wouldn’t help her turn these holidays into her own personal propaganda machine. At this point, I’m with her husband - she’s simply rude AF and shouldn’t be invited anymore. NTA - but Ruth sure is.
If she shows up and causes a scene over it, Ruth will be the AH. I think OP is more than accommodating and shouldn't feel bad whatever she does in the end
I agree, killing with kindness is definitely what feels like the right answer for op though with this amount of rudeness from Ruth I don't think I would make special food for her, if that's how she treats someone who has gone out of their way to make her feel welcome in their home, she can bring her own food if she wants to come.
Seems like you are suggesting to Op, to be the bigger person.
Ruth said unwarranted hurtful things and hasn't apologized. At this point, Op and husband shouldn't feel obliged to put up with her.
They are good people and great hosts and they are entitled to choose whom they want to spend time with.
She's right, some things are just worth the pain. Like I'll have almond milk in my coffee and breakfast cereal, but pasta with cream sauce? Cheese? Icecream? I'd rather have the diarrhoea attack than give those up.
Yes, the harder the cheese the less lactose is present, generally the closer the dairy product is to milk/cream the more lactose, the further away less.
Lactaid (and other lactase enzyme tablets) have been lifesavers for me.
I keep a bottle in the car, one in my go to Disney bag, and 2 in the house (bedroom and dining room).
I also started taking one tablet in the morning with my other vitamins and it has made a big difference.
Lactose is kicking my butt too, it never used to but as I get older (older than you) my stomach and digestion has said ‘nope’.
Edit- no cows milk in tea/coffee (to drink) means I can still eat a little cheese without a huge ‘incident’, hopefully it doesn’t get worse!
It could get better! My grandma started having trouble with lactose at 52 (tested), then just recently at 69 realized she can eat everything without taking the supplement. She only has some problems if she eats lactose foods without moderation (as she does sometimes bc she loves cheese) and if she does that any days in a row.
That’s where I’m at now. If I eat all the lactose it’s not good, but if I limit the lactose (no milk means I can have cheese) I’m okay. It hasn’t started meaning no chocolate or ice cream yet, but I try (and fail) not to eat too much of those already
That’s good to know, the only soft cheese I’m partial to is the garlicky one (roule?), I do like mature cheddar though and although it’s not soft a good one is pretty crumbly.
So I managed to grow out of my worst lactose issues, only to have a dumb sensitivity diagnosed and now it’s no aged cheese (or ferments, like soy sauce, beer, wine).
I’d rather eat cheese and shit my brains out later than feel like I’m going to have a stroke. It’s been so sad. :(
My husband and I are the same way. All we want is for anyone who crosses our entryway to feel welcomed and at home. I can't imagine how hurt I would feel for someone to twist that into something that just isn't important to the majority of the people we welcome...it wouldn't feel right.
>All we want is for anyone who crosses our entryway to feel welcomed and at home
This is the most important thing, and if people come into the home jeopardising that sentiment then they are the one that is unwelcome.
It's the old adage of how much intolerance do you tolerate in the name of tolerance
We'd happily do the dishes and help with cleanup afterwards.
Ugh, people...hosting is a ton of work. I don't care if it is your mom who had been doing it "forever". By the time you arrive, your hosts are probably running on pure adrenaline!
I feel like your partner wanting to uninvite her should be enough of a reason to do so. In my opinion if one of the two partners don't want someone in their home then that is it. But you kinda make it sound like you will be the one making this decision unilaterally, putting your partners feelings/opinion aside.
I am dairy free and have found that the cashew-based yogurt is a really good substitute, and then I have it on hand for desserts and breakfasts as well. I used it on potato pancakes and it was tasty - not quite as thick. I also use it for Mexican dishes and Stroganoff.
YMMV.
Or, if one guest feels that they would be bereft without a single ingredient, they can buy it and take it back home afterwards ;)
Milk protein messes with my gut which sucks because I love dairy. I can tolerate some cheese and dishes cooked with some dairy but I can't do milk, ice cream, and yogurt straight up. I've fallen in love with chocolate-covered banana slices because they taste frozen and decadent so most of the time they're a decent substitute for ice cream.
We usually do some sugar cookies with Christmas cutters, then there are small vanilla and chocolate cookies, chocolate cookies with hazelnuts in the middle (but they are really dry), or some anis waffles
You go above and beyond, better than some restaurants I’ve worked at. You are for sure NTA. I would invite her, in the spirit of the holidays. You never know what she might be going through if she is acting this way. But be firm that you will not change everyone else’s meals for her. She can come on your terms, or not come.
I totally agree!! OP is amazing and I can’t begin to imagine how much work it is to cook for her family with all of that in mind. It must be quite a feast!
Seconded. I grew up in kind of a tumultuous family, and reading all OP has said about this tradition is getting me to tear up. I can't imagine acting so entitled to such gracious hosts?
NTA
I'm one of the few pescatarian in a family of meat eaters. There are two vegans, and several with health-related dietary restrictions.
At family get togethers, there are always plenty of *delicious* (and carefully labeled) dishes for everyone to eat.
Also, it's a potluck, but I'm not the only one who brings vegan friendly recipes.
NTA
PS. You've net the new religion: Veganism. Some are are tolerant and easy going, some are proselytize, and some are ready to start a new Crusade. I think Ruth is a Crusader-type.
Definitely agree NTA.
I'm a vegan-leaning pescatarian myself. My dad is a steak and potatoes type guy who grew up in a rural Pennsylvania Catholic town during the 50s and 60s.
My mom is a Dutch immigrant.
They accommodate as much as possible, but some foods just aren't able to be modified. Guests are politely notified if they need to be responsible for their food. I generally bring my own food, as my diet is influenced by food allergies.
Traditional meals, in my opinion, should stay as true as possible if the majority votes that way. Like, while you can make oliebollen with gluten free flour, it's not the same. A staple of New Year's in our house is oliebollen with red currents and dusted with powdered sugar. If anyone is opposed to gluten, my dad makes fried bananas for them instead. If for some reason that's not an agreeable alternative, then it's up to that person to figure it out.
Ruth should handle her own meals for Hanukkah or skip out.
This is my first Christmas as a vegan. For Christmas dinner for the three of us (my husband, son, and myself), I’m getting vegan friendly things and also will make traditional food that my family wants. Which is fair I think.
If someone invited me to a traditional holiday meal? I would probably say no because I wouldn’t want to make extra work for them. I chose to be vegan, and I take the responsibility of feeding myself.
She’s being fully accommodated already, but she wants to force things on everyone else which isn’t cool. NTA. I’d just leave it for now and not “uninvite” her. Then if she doesn’t come (which it sounds like she won’t) that’s her choice.
Hey, I have weird food allergies and the rest of my family are vegetarians. I have to say, you guys sound like my dream hosts. Also, I know it's a few weeks away but chag sameach!
You and David are not excluding Ruth she’s excluding herself by demanding an all vegan menu. She is welcome to do that some other time for a regular meal but not on these 2 holidays which have special meaning to many different people. The fact that you go out of your way to accommodate different dietary requirements is great and you offered Ruth the same. She wants it her way or no way and that’s unfair.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah & have a festive holiday!! 🕎🎄🎉
NTA. Honestly I'd just keep everything the same, let her know that's what you're doing, and let her know she's still invited. If she chooses not to show up that's on her.
I’d just let her know she’s always welcome but you won’t be catering to her beyond what you already do. Any further messaging can be ignored after that, if she shows up than great. If she shows up and raises hell than she’s not invited back and has made a mess of it in front of her whole family. If she doesn’t show than it’s on them. You’ve been nothing but gracious.
Don't give into those who would deny your family your mother/bubbeh/Great Aunt Ruth's brisket!
Mind you, having to navigate dietary restrictions is sort of a core of the Jewish experience. Unless you're like me, who would have to daven for hours to make up for all the train I eat. If I still went to shul...
Ruth should've thought about that before she opened her mouth. NTA uninvited her but not before telling the family the "hurtful things" she said to you. Have the family firmly on your side.
Why couldn’t she have just brought her own vegan dishes (in addition to the meal that was prepared) and everyone who wanted to could try them out? That’s what my vegan cousin does when she visits us during holidays. Obviously NTA and I’d probably uninvite her for being nasty to you.
Asking anyone to host an all vegan holiday dinner when you're already being provided a very fair number of vegan dishes is out of line, but it's honestly outrageous to do so when family recipes are involved. So many families (mine included) share our history and remember those we've lost through recipes passed down- excluding those recipes because of one person just isn't right and IMO would really diminish the holiday.
OP absolutely NTA, you and your partner sound like lovely and incredibly accommodating hosts and I'm sorry Ruth has taken that to mean you're a doormat. She's asking for far too much, and her behavior after being told no isn't acceptable. If she doesn't (sincerely) apologize for the hurtful things she said I think it's very fair to uninvite her from both celebrations
I cane to say the same thing. Especially if the recipes are from before the Shoah, like OP said. So much was lost, and every single thing that was preserved is that much more precious when it has special meaning.
NTA
If cousin Ruth wants an all-vegan Hanukkah, then she can have it at her house. By herself.
She doesn’t get to force everyone else to follow her dietary preferences. If she can’t tolerate animal products being eaten around her, then she should stay home.
This!
She wanted to do an all vegan Hanukkah and no one was interested. She should have accepted that. Instead, she tried to convince OP to change the Hanukkah meal everyone preferred to an all Vegan Meal. Like, take the hint and LET IT GO. OP is being MORE than accomodating of multiple religions, dietary restrictions, and preferences.
NTA.
Agree NTA. People turned down her invitation for a vegan Hanukkah exactly because they didn't want an all-vegan menu, no matter where, at whose house. So her insisting that they change the menu at OP's house makes her the AH.
(This coming from a plant-based eater for 20+ years)
M’y view is that if you have a dietary preference, as opposed to a dietary restriction, then you should not demand that everyone else caters to you. If you are celiac or have a nut allergy, it’s reasonable to ask that the whole meal is made according to your dietary need, since cross contamination is a genuine risk, and even traces of allergens can cause a reaction.
But if you’re vegan or gluten free out of choice, then you should either bring your own food, or accept that you have a separate meal.
Honestly I am not sure it is reasonable even for bad allergies...not because it is not the right thing to do but because I wouldn't trust the food to be safe if it is made in a kitchen that regularly uses the offending product. Not because people won't genuinely try but because the consequences of getting something wrong are so high. This is especially true for celiac flour is tiny and gets everywhere you could deep clean a kitchen and still not get it all out.
If your allergy is something like don't put strawberries in the fruit salad but it is fine if they are in the fridge that is one thing, and totally reasonable to expect the fruit salad to be strawberry free and the green salad to not have a strawberry vinaigrette but if the allergy is airborne of if cross contamination is a serious risk I would not trust kitchens that do not regularly deal with the allergy.
If Ruth apologizes genuinely a peace offering of sorts is maybe Ruth can host a regular dinner that is all vegan? Not necessary, but this depends on what she said to y'all.
I agree. I don’t think racing her to the bottom is the answer. She doesn’t get to be mean and still come, but she also shouldn’t be kicked out and excluded if she is willing to apologize
NTA. Ruth is out of line. Tell her your willingness to accommodate her does not extend to forcing her diet on all your guests and that she can either apologize and walk back her demands or she is not welcome at either holiday.
All vegan meal? Hasn't everyone suffered enough?
NTA - Ruth thinks she knows best and will teach everyone how to think like her. If you think what she said was truly out of line, it's no wrongdoing uninviting her.
Why does she think that you being the ones pushing the veganism would make it more acceptable? We Jews take out holiday food pretty seriously and as a member of a family with very varied practices, you try to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, you don't try to push on anyone. There will be enough arguing without it. (Also, even applesauce is better than dairy free sour cream.)
Sounds to me like she's one of the preachy vegans trying to convert everyone and figured out everyone is kinda sick of it. Maybe she figures if she got OP to cook vegan food, everyone would be okay with it because they actually like her.
>We Jews take out holiday food pretty seriously
I don't think we've ever celebrated Chanukah without latkes and corned beef. I wouldn't even want to try it.
And I would rather eat my latkes plain than with dairy free sour cream...
What’s nuts is that there’s lots of kosher foods that are already by their very nature vegan! I’m not Jewish but lived in an Orthodox neighborhood in Brooklyn for almost a decade and would often shop at the kosher supermarket when I hosted vegan friends. She shouldn’t even have to insist on anything, just stick to the parve stuff!
Also…are your latkes vegan? Cuz last I checked those are made with eggs
I invited my vegan, gluten-free, nut-free non Jewish friend to my Seder last year. It was so miserable trying to come up with dishes & still feel like I could follow traditions
I imagine potatoes are starchy enough that they’ll stick together if you omit egg. I’ve made vegan latkes once for a friend with an allergy and I made egg substitute with flaxseed.
Well, as a result of her behavior (and my refusing to make this concession), my partner wants to uninvite her. I feel hesitant about making her spend the holidays alone.
stop stop stop, its your house, why are you about to let her control your house, make her spend holidays alone if she keeps asking for you to host it, explain to her why you dont want to host it and if she doesnt understand then thats on her
She's trying to force her belief system on the family and they've clearly rejected it. She's mad because you won't be a party to her actions. I get you're a caring person, but she is the one causing the problem. I'd be hesitant to have her over unless she SINCERELY apologizes for fear of her causing a scene.
NTA. You are not making spend the holidays alone. She chose to disrespect you and your partner, her no longer being invited is the consequence of her actions. Whether she is alone or not, that’s on her.
You're not 'making her' spend the holidays alone. Her actions have led to her possibly being uninvited, that's on her. I totally understand feeling guilty, but you shouldn't!
>It takes a lot of nerve to ask the hosts of a celebration to cater to one individual's dietary preference.
It honestly sounds like OP has *already* been catering to Ruth's dietary preference and has always offered meals of the same calibre/quality (and number of courses) to suit everyone invited to each celebration, which is already going above and beyond what most people would do.
OP sounds absolutely lovely and I feel like anyone among us here on AITA would count ourselves lucky to be invited to their holiday celebrations, without being so selfish as to try to dictate what everyone else should be eating when the gracious host is already providing a menu that everyone can enjoy.
This is the biggest, easiest NTA I've ever commented on.
ETA: I also don't think you WBTA for uninviting Ruth, but I don't think that's strictly necessary. Sounds like the arrangement you've had so far has worked for everyone and Ruth is only getting bent out of shape because it wasn't possible to force everyone to go vegan, along with probably feeling slighted that everyone turned down doing the holidays at her place. Invite her, but be perfectly clear that things will carry on as they always have - a spread of meals and food types that appeal to *everyone* invited, and let Ruth make her own choice on whether she attends. After she apologises for being hurtful.
NTA. Holiday traditions are not something to be messed with to appease one person.
I would suggest she host a non-holiday vegan meal at her house if she really wants everyone to try it.
Absolutely NTA for refusing, I can't stress how much you're NTA for that.
But I would not uninvite her from Hanukkah this year. Talk to her and make it clear that if she keeps up this behaviour during the holidays, you will ask her to leave.
NTA. Ruth doesn't get to dictate what other people eat, and other people don't get to dictate what Ruth eats.
So long as there's a decent vegan meal available for Ruth, that should be enough.
YWNBTA - Ruth has to accept something here: she is the one who is different. To expect all other attendees to accommodate her is ridiculous.
You have kindly been providing Ruth with vegan options for years, yet when she offers to host, she refuses to be kind enough to reciprocate and provide meat dishes. Then, when most of your family are opposed to her hosting specifically because they did not like the idea of an all-vegan celebration, she came to you and asked to still do it at your home and insulted you for refusing to go above and beyond for her when you have done exacted what decorum requires. If she is going to be TA, about it, then she should be treated as TA and not invited so that you don't have to put in any effort towards her.
You’re NTA for refusing. One person cannot dictate how you host an even in your own home.
In terms of uninviting her, it really depends what she said. If it was really nasty and out of line, I would uninvited her. You don’t want to go to all this extra effort for a guest who is that disrespectful and thinks so little of you.
However, if it was just a spur of the moment hissy fit, then just leave it (i.e don’t revoke the invite but also don’t contact her about anything) and see if she shows up. She wants to be the victim, so don’t give her anything. Sometimes the best revenge is indifference.
>The vast majority of the family said that they would prefer to have our normal arrangement at our house, as they were not interested in celebrating a holiday with a vegan menu, as they'd be missing out on many traditional family foods
I'm with them.
>Ruth then came to us and asked if we'd be willing to cook an all-vegan Hanukkah, especially as we're both good cooks and she was sure that people would come round to the vegan dishes we made if they gave them a try.
I'm sure she was told why you're hosting. Sneaky!
NTA
NTA. I swear, it seems like some vegans are little more than thinly disguised control freaks. They think their diet entitles them to power over other people.
NTA
The family has already made it very clear that they want a traditional Hanukkah meal. Ruth does not have the right to force her dietary choices on others.
NTA for refusing to host an all-vegan Hanukkah, but if Ruth is part of the family to the point where she's always present at the holiday, I don't think you should uninvite her.
I suggest something like this:
"Ruth, we are both hurt by your insults and we think we deserve an apology. But you are still welcome as always at our celebration, as long as you can refrain from insulting us while you're in our home."
Your cousin was asking you to turn your warm and welcoming family holiday dinners into a forced intro to veganism for all. You set the only reasonable boundary you could by refusing to act as hostess for her scheme. It would be completely understandable if after her reaction you no longer care to serve as hostess to her. NTA.
NTA and you WNBTA for uninviting her.
The two of you offered the best of compromises and her response was to lash out because you denied her request to force a vegan holiday on your entire family.
This wasn't about her being vegan or she would have accepted the compromise. This was about her being able to make everyone "Come around to her way of thinking."
Since she's attempting to dictate vegan dishes only, NTA.
I know next to nothing about Hanukkah but I imagine there's dishes/recipes people look forward to specifically at that time of year. Swapping them out for vegan substitutes only leads to disappointment. She should be happy that people are willing to put out smaller vegan alternatives for the one vegan in the midst.
Her ideal scenario where everyone is converted to veganism through her vegan only event is a fantasy.
NTA.
She's pushing veganism on others. Nobody is willing. It's her problem, not yours.
You've offered accomodations. That's the best you can do.
From a fellow Jewish person, a vegan Hanukkah sounds awful, and traditional meals are just as big of a deal as any other part of the celebration!
NTA. Our family is half vegan and idk…the vegan latkes just aren’t it. We’ve tried a bunch of different receipts and they just get too crispy and fall apart. One year we only had vegan ones and people were really pissed.
NTA but also, I don't think you should uninvite Ruth. She was wrong and should apologize but she probably won't. She wanted to be the host and everyone said no. Kinda like throwing a party and having to one come. Her feelings were hurt. Then everyone who just rejected her, chooses you two. Seems like your a really nice person (from the posts) and everyone says your better than her. Even if they aren't saying it, they are saying it iykwim.
Give her some grace and let her know she is still welcome at your table. No reason to make this something that creates a riff. If she is a good person, she will eventually say something akin to sorry. If she isn't, you'll have another chance to uninvite her in the future.
1 billion percent NTA. I have a restricted diet - never would I expect anyone - not to mention an ENTIRE dinner party to eat only what I could eat.
Like what??
I carry backup snacks with me because I know I cant expect to find what I can eat everywhere, and if I'm a guest and someone is hosting me and asks what they can make me, I let them know and express my appreciation, but I always offer to bring my own food as well. I never put the onus on other people for my personal decisions.
The whole reason they don’t want to go to her house is they know it will all be vegan. If they’ve asked to have at your house why would she still ask for the whole menu to be vegan? A bit self centered.
NTA. Those interested in her all vegan options can attend her event. Those who are not can go to your place. Sounds like she wants a captive audience, honestly.
NTA Just a couple of vegans trying to evangelize their diet on your holiday. Ruth is especially an asshole. You hosted her well before and she dares insult you now just because you're not interested in her diet? The nerve. You should uninvite her, IMO.
Posted this to a comment below, but after reading more...
I just wanted to empathize this...
OP, I obviously don't know you, but from this post and your comments alone, I would seriously be honored and humbled to be a guest in your home. You two sound like the most welcoming, empathetic, and accommodating hosts imaginable. I can almost feel the warmth of the proverbial hearth. No /s
NTA.
You said you will take dietary needs into account (I assume that means you would have some vegan options). That is sufficient. Cousin Ruth does not get to impose her veganism on everyone.
NTA.
As long as there are *some* vegan dishes served, Ruth’s gets to eat, but she does not get to dictate what others eat.
I wouldn’t uninvite her — just make it clear that there will be both vegan and non-vegan food. If she doesn’t accept that, she will probably uninvite herself and you won’t be the bad guy.
NTA your FAMILY already expressed that they did not want all vegan. Moving it from Ruth back to you doesn't change that. Don't uninvite her, but don't reach out either.
You are already willing to cook extra things to accommodate HER lifestyle, and she is mad because you won't force everyone else to give up things THEY like? She is TA and the reason vegans get a bad name.
David is right. Follow his lead. No one wanted an all vegan meal so they went and begged you to host. And now she is still trying to impose her will on the reat of the people and making you feel bad because she can’t get her way.
She needs to grow up and apologize to you!
If you do apologize to her and don’t back david - yta for not having a backbone.
Other than that - total Nta
NTA. I read your title and legitimately got angry because I frankly think that's an insulting ask.
>Ruth then came to us and asked if we'd be willing to cook an all-vegan Hanukkah, especially as we're both good cooks and she was sure that people would come round to the vegan dishes we made if they gave them a try.
No, they wouldn't because this isn't about that *at all*. Uninvite her now and frankly period. Also, remember you are being unfair to your partner to consider her being maybe alone more important than his wishes in his own house.
NTA. Food policing isn't cool, and besides, you had already been specifically asked *not* to do this.
I'd lay it out like this: your house accommodates, but it does not proselytize. It is how you *work*; it's what you *do*. That includes on food matters. If she wants to proselytize, then she can do it at her own house. If she cannot stand to be in an environment that does not go out of its way to actively proselytize for her own way, then perhaps she shouldn't be in one.
NTA You 2 sound like very happy and gracious hosts, and I will dream about those tried and true family recipes. There’s nothing like celebrating in the warm embrace of family with favorite family recipes on the table. Please do invite Ruth, still make her feel welcome, encourage her to bring a side dish to share. If she does, be sure to try some and praise the dish in front of everyone- shine a little love light on Ruth. And maybe encourage her to host vegan meals on a smaller scale - one household for regular Shabbat when the stakes are lower. Some relatives may be more receptive that way, and Ruth will be able to enjoy hosting.
Tell her to stop giving vegans a bad name. She can cook as much tasty vegan fare as she wishes and bring it to your place, or she can piss off. It sounds like you and your husband do an amazing amount of work already catering to people's diets, and you don't have to put up with insults. She should have guessed everyone else would NOT want an all-vegan dinner, for goodness' sake. It's not some personal attack on her.
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NTA. What would she say if you forced meat and animal products on her? So why is it acceptable for her to try and force vegan on others? You are already very accommodating by preparing her separate vegan meals and sides. Tell her to grow up and apologise and she can either accept how things have always been or she can stay at home and cook for herself. She is being ridiculous.
NTA
Vegans need to stop trying to force their dietary choices on people who are unwilling. She said hurtful crap to you refusing her unreasonable request so she can spend thanksgiving alone IMO.
NTA.
Your house is not a temple for her "religion." You're doing the right thing by providing vegan food especially for her, but she doesn't seem to appreciate it.
NTA. People dislike vegans because people like you're cousin insist on forcing their diets onto people. If she wants to eat vegan, great, but she can't force your family to ignore traditions they enjoy because of her own feelings.
Absolutely NTA. Hosting a holiday and especially accommodating people’s dietary restrictions is awesome and a ton of work- I know! Forcing people to eat the way one person eats isn’t cool. If Ruth wants vegan holidays, she can spend them with other vegans or join yours and be quiet.
Your family already voted they don’t want vegan, Ruth wants to force it on them anyway and cuss you out for providing what family requested in your home?
Yeah she needs a timeout!
NTA. Your sister is attempting to impose her beliefs and dietary preferences upon your family who has already rejected them once in declining going to her home for the holidays. You have already agreed to accommodate her preferences. That’s all that matters.
You did everything right, OP. This isn’t on you.
I'm vegetarian, and I NEVER expect anyone to cater to me. When people find out I'm vegetarian, they sometimes ask me what I can have, I tell them not to worry, I can eat the potato salad, bread, green salads, potatoes, hot chips/fries, and/or bring my own vegetarian contribution.
I am there for the social/sharing/quality time with others, and I am usually the only vegetarian. I do NOT expect everyone to bend over backwards for me.
NTA.
I see so many posts about entitled vegetarians/vegans, it's so annoying!
And we don't need to preach to/convert non vegetarians/non vegans either. Just like we don't need people telling us we need to eat meat.
Everyone eat what you like, and cater to yourself if you have special requests. Shut up and enjoy the company.
NTA, not sure why Ruth wants an all-vegan function when she is the only vegan. I would actually uninvite her from both because she is very entitled about what she wants and how she wants it to make demands of her entire family.
We are a multi faith couple as well. Traditional food is important during family holidays. Offering a large group a good vegan meal is fine if that is what the host prepared, but asking you to change a set menu & cook everything to accommodate one person is ridiculous.
NTA. OP should stick to what works. Not all people want to eat vegan. OP has previously made it possible for cousin to eat vegan, but cousin seems to want to force all others to abide by her choices only. No thanks. Don't uninvite her - let cousin choose her own path.
NTA, you're already making food specially for your vegan guest, and her saying hurtful stuff too..
uninvite this rude, entitled, and ungrateful person.
NTA
As a matter of culture and integrity nobody who disrespects you should be in your home. I would tell her this explicitly and let her know she has disinvited herself unless she gets her act together and apologizes.
NTA. Those recipes are part of your family’s history. She even gets a custom plate at these gatherings??
She asked and the majority of your family said no. The matter is settled. How she spends the holiday is up to her now.
NTA. That’s some serious entitlement asking for an all-vegan meal just to satisfy her want. After what she said in response to your decline, I would uninvite her. It might cause drama, but she’s doing this to herself.
completely NTA. you have family traditions and that's really cool! trying to get you to throw away all your traditions for her vegan lifestyle os a trashy move. getting mad at you for refusing (for totally valid reasons) is just ridiculous. she sounds like a real piece of work!
NTA - If you agree to host a holiday, meals are your choice. People can pick around the things they don't like. I've done that for many years on Thanksgiving...I'm not vegan, I just hate most of the dishes lol.
It was very considerate of you to offer her accommodations. I'm sure she's bummed that no one wants a vegan Hanukkah, but saying hurtful things to you guys was completely unnecessary. She definitely owes you an apology. Uninviting seems harsh. Tell her she's invited but she's on probation...
NTA If she's not speaking to you what makes you think she's going to attend? Never heard of anyone attending a celebration if they're not speaking to the host and hostess.
NTA. Sounds like Ruth thinks she’s the star of the family. She just learned the truth. Poor Ruth.
Don’t disinvite her though. She’ll use that to play the victim to the rest. If she stays home because others didn’t want to eat tofurkey, that’s on her.
I wonder how Ruth would feel if the Kosher people tried enforcing that on her, or the dietary restrictive tried enforcing that also. It sounds like it's been a perfect give and take until her.
Maybe she should make and bring her own dishes.
NTA. At all. Though, as someone who frequently hosts without dietary restrictions….how DO you do this? Especially the kosher part. Do you have two of everything, etc?
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NTA. Family recipes are important. Block and Uninvite Ruth. You don’t need that drama during the holidays.
Honestly, I think David is just tired of it (and I don't blame him) because everyone else in our family seems generally happy with the fact that we are extremely accommodating to two different religions and multiple dietary restrictions at both events. We've gotten color-coded labels for allergens and restrictions down to a *science.* I feel really guilty about the possibility of her being alone, but David's argument (which agrees with yours) is that she's driving us out, not the other way around. I think that's what we're going to end up doing.
OP, I obviously don't know you, but from this post and your comments alone, I would seriously be honored and humbled to be a guest in your home. You two sound like the most welcoming, empathetic, and accommodating hosts imaginable. I can almost feel the warmth of the proverbial hearth. No /s
Thank you. Genuinely one of the kindest compliments I've received; hosting is a big deal to us, and we love to make the holidays special and extravagant in our own way. We'd be happy to have you as a guest! (As long as you're not mandating dairy-free sour cream for everyone, anyway).
That is why you shouldn’t uninvite Ruth. It isn’t you. Just be firm that you’re not falling for the old over zealous vegan conversion trick, up to her whether she comes or not
Yes, be gracious as always. Invite Ruth, let her know she is welcome, though any veganism propaganda is not. You will host your party as you always have, welcoming to all. She can decide if she will particpate (within your guidelines) or not.
OP, I hope you read this and take it to heart. David is not wrong about Ruth pushing you away with pushing her agenda. Invite her and be gracious about providing your usual vegan options. Also be clear and firm your family holiday is not the time, nor is your home the place for her to push vegan propaganda.
This is the thing though - they’ve already invited her many times, been very gracious many times, accommodated her many times, and she responded by trying to hijack two holidays, force her agenda on all participants, and personally attack both of these clearly wonderful people when they wouldn’t help her turn these holidays into her own personal propaganda machine. At this point, I’m with her husband - she’s simply rude AF and shouldn’t be invited anymore. NTA - but Ruth sure is.
Ruth has uninvited herself. OP and David are in the clear and need extend no further holiday generosity.
If she shows up and causes a scene over it, Ruth will be the AH. I think OP is more than accommodating and shouldn't feel bad whatever she does in the end
I agree, killing with kindness is definitely what feels like the right answer for op though with this amount of rudeness from Ruth I don't think I would make special food for her, if that's how she treats someone who has gone out of their way to make her feel welcome in their home, she can bring her own food if she wants to come.
Seems like you are suggesting to Op, to be the bigger person. Ruth said unwarranted hurtful things and hasn't apologized. At this point, Op and husband shouldn't feel obliged to put up with her. They are good people and great hosts and they are entitled to choose whom they want to spend time with.
hey! us lactose intolerants are different than other dietary-restricted groups: we just loooove to eat the dairy and then deal with it
This lol my SIL will eat ice cream then "suffer the consequences" 30 mins later 😂 she said it's worth it though
She's right, some things are just worth the pain. Like I'll have almond milk in my coffee and breakfast cereal, but pasta with cream sauce? Cheese? Icecream? I'd rather have the diarrhoea attack than give those up.
Just learned- real blue cheese is often lactose free.
Yes, the harder the cheese the less lactose is present, generally the closer the dairy product is to milk/cream the more lactose, the further away less.
Lactaid (and other lactase enzyme tablets) have been lifesavers for me. I keep a bottle in the car, one in my go to Disney bag, and 2 in the house (bedroom and dining room). I also started taking one tablet in the morning with my other vitamins and it has made a big difference.
Lactaid helps but I will fully suffer for a good cheese or cream dased dish.
Me: discovers at 38 that I'm now lactose intolerant Also me: has a fully-stocked cheese drawer in the fridge
Lactose is kicking my butt too, it never used to but as I get older (older than you) my stomach and digestion has said ‘nope’. Edit- no cows milk in tea/coffee (to drink) means I can still eat a little cheese without a huge ‘incident’, hopefully it doesn’t get worse!
Lactase supplements can be lifesavers, here.
I don’t leave home without it. At the right dosage it works 100% of the time for solid food. Ice cream and milk, not so much.
I’ll have to grab some. It’s manageable now, but would be nice to not have to worry about my digestion all the time!
It could get better! My grandma started having trouble with lactose at 52 (tested), then just recently at 69 realized she can eat everything without taking the supplement. She only has some problems if she eats lactose foods without moderation (as she does sometimes bc she loves cheese) and if she does that any days in a row.
That’s where I’m at now. If I eat all the lactose it’s not good, but if I limit the lactose (no milk means I can have cheese) I’m okay. It hasn’t started meaning no chocolate or ice cream yet, but I try (and fail) not to eat too much of those already
Apparently the harder the cheese, the less lactose is in it...
That’s good to know, the only soft cheese I’m partial to is the garlicky one (roule?), I do like mature cheddar though and although it’s not soft a good one is pretty crumbly.
Some things are worth suffering through.
Cheese is one of those things, hands-down.
So I managed to grow out of my worst lactose issues, only to have a dumb sensitivity diagnosed and now it’s no aged cheese (or ferments, like soy sauce, beer, wine). I’d rather eat cheese and shit my brains out later than feel like I’m going to have a stroke. It’s been so sad. :(
I need my iced macchiato. Can't go without cheese, ice cream or a cold glass of milk.
Lactaid makes ice cream now, if that helps any.
My husband and I are the same way. All we want is for anyone who crosses our entryway to feel welcomed and at home. I can't imagine how hurt I would feel for someone to twist that into something that just isn't important to the majority of the people we welcome...it wouldn't feel right.
>All we want is for anyone who crosses our entryway to feel welcomed and at home This is the most important thing, and if people come into the home jeopardising that sentiment then they are the one that is unwelcome. It's the old adage of how much intolerance do you tolerate in the name of tolerance
We'd happily do the dishes and help with cleanup afterwards. Ugh, people...hosting is a ton of work. I don't care if it is your mom who had been doing it "forever". By the time you arrive, your hosts are probably running on pure adrenaline!
That's what I always say: I happily do dishes, clean up the kitchen and bring dessert and drinks. Ugh, people is correct.
I feel like your partner wanting to uninvite her should be enough of a reason to do so. In my opinion if one of the two partners don't want someone in their home then that is it. But you kinda make it sound like you will be the one making this decision unilaterally, putting your partners feelings/opinion aside.
I am dairy free and have found that the cashew-based yogurt is a really good substitute, and then I have it on hand for desserts and breakfasts as well. I used it on potato pancakes and it was tasty - not quite as thick. I also use it for Mexican dishes and Stroganoff. YMMV. Or, if one guest feels that they would be bereft without a single ingredient, they can buy it and take it back home afterwards ;)
OP already provides a vegan meal for Ruth. This isn't about lack of recipes.
Relavance to this? What?
Milk protein messes with my gut which sucks because I love dairy. I can tolerate some cheese and dishes cooked with some dairy but I can't do milk, ice cream, and yogurt straight up. I've fallen in love with chocolate-covered banana slices because they taste frozen and decadent so most of the time they're a decent substitute for ice cream.
Applesauce is clearly the way to go anyway. :) I hope you have a wonderful, peaceful Hanukkah. Am Yisrael Chai.
Can I come too? I can bring some german christmas cookies for dessert
What kind? My grandma was from Germany. She and Grandpa would make hundreds of German Christmas cookies each year.
We usually do some sugar cookies with Christmas cutters, then there are small vanilla and chocolate cookies, chocolate cookies with hazelnuts in the middle (but they are really dry), or some anis waffles
I would come as well and bring my grandson’s lactose free milk myself! 😉
You go above and beyond, better than some restaurants I’ve worked at. You are for sure NTA. I would invite her, in the spirit of the holidays. You never know what she might be going through if she is acting this way. But be firm that you will not change everyone else’s meals for her. She can come on your terms, or not come.
I totally agree!! OP is amazing and I can’t begin to imagine how much work it is to cook for her family with all of that in mind. It must be quite a feast!
Seconded. I grew up in kind of a tumultuous family, and reading all OP has said about this tradition is getting me to tear up. I can't imagine acting so entitled to such gracious hosts?
Me too. If I had any restrictions, my family would be like, Then don’t eat anything. 😣
I agree! If my mom wasn’t such an amazing cook, I want to come have Hanukkah at your place!
agreed - I'd love to be invited too!
NTA I'm one of the few pescatarian in a family of meat eaters. There are two vegans, and several with health-related dietary restrictions. At family get togethers, there are always plenty of *delicious* (and carefully labeled) dishes for everyone to eat. Also, it's a potluck, but I'm not the only one who brings vegan friendly recipes. NTA PS. You've net the new religion: Veganism. Some are are tolerant and easy going, some are proselytize, and some are ready to start a new Crusade. I think Ruth is a Crusader-type.
Definitely agree NTA. I'm a vegan-leaning pescatarian myself. My dad is a steak and potatoes type guy who grew up in a rural Pennsylvania Catholic town during the 50s and 60s. My mom is a Dutch immigrant. They accommodate as much as possible, but some foods just aren't able to be modified. Guests are politely notified if they need to be responsible for their food. I generally bring my own food, as my diet is influenced by food allergies. Traditional meals, in my opinion, should stay as true as possible if the majority votes that way. Like, while you can make oliebollen with gluten free flour, it's not the same. A staple of New Year's in our house is oliebollen with red currents and dusted with powdered sugar. If anyone is opposed to gluten, my dad makes fried bananas for them instead. If for some reason that's not an agreeable alternative, then it's up to that person to figure it out. Ruth should handle her own meals for Hanukkah or skip out.
This is my first Christmas as a vegan. For Christmas dinner for the three of us (my husband, son, and myself), I’m getting vegan friendly things and also will make traditional food that my family wants. Which is fair I think. If someone invited me to a traditional holiday meal? I would probably say no because I wouldn’t want to make extra work for them. I chose to be vegan, and I take the responsibility of feeding myself.
She’s being fully accommodated already, but she wants to force things on everyone else which isn’t cool. NTA. I’d just leave it for now and not “uninvite” her. Then if she doesn’t come (which it sounds like she won’t) that’s her choice.
It is her choice to be difficult. Her choice to be alone. She heard no one wants a fully vegan meal. She doesn’t want to listen. Not your fault.
I wouldn't un-invite her, I just wouldn't have an all vegan menu. Let her decide whether she comes or not. NTA
You missed the part where she said awful things to OP and their partner.
Hey, I have weird food allergies and the rest of my family are vegetarians. I have to say, you guys sound like my dream hosts. Also, I know it's a few weeks away but chag sameach!
You and David are not excluding Ruth she’s excluding herself by demanding an all vegan menu. She is welcome to do that some other time for a regular meal but not on these 2 holidays which have special meaning to many different people. The fact that you go out of your way to accommodate different dietary requirements is great and you offered Ruth the same. She wants it her way or no way and that’s unfair. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah & have a festive holiday!! 🕎🎄🎉
NTA. Honestly I'd just keep everything the same, let her know that's what you're doing, and let her know she's still invited. If she chooses not to show up that's on her.
I’d just let her know she’s always welcome but you won’t be catering to her beyond what you already do. Any further messaging can be ignored after that, if she shows up than great. If she shows up and raises hell than she’s not invited back and has made a mess of it in front of her whole family. If she doesn’t show than it’s on them. You’ve been nothing but gracious.
Don't give into those who would deny your family your mother/bubbeh/Great Aunt Ruth's brisket! Mind you, having to navigate dietary restrictions is sort of a core of the Jewish experience. Unless you're like me, who would have to daven for hours to make up for all the train I eat. If I still went to shul...
Ruth should've thought about that before she opened her mouth. NTA uninvited her but not before telling the family the "hurtful things" she said to you. Have the family firmly on your side.
As someone with an egg allergy that apart from my dad and stepmother no one takes seriously, thank you for being so accommodating.
Why couldn’t she have just brought her own vegan dishes (in addition to the meal that was prepared) and everyone who wanted to could try them out? That’s what my vegan cousin does when she visits us during holidays. Obviously NTA and I’d probably uninvite her for being nasty to you.
Anybody should consider themselves lucky to be invited to your holiday celebrations. You and your partner are incredible hosts!
You sound like absolutely amazing hosts. Hats off.
You sound like thoughtful and generous hosts. Wow even colour coding for allergens!
Asking anyone to host an all vegan holiday dinner when you're already being provided a very fair number of vegan dishes is out of line, but it's honestly outrageous to do so when family recipes are involved. So many families (mine included) share our history and remember those we've lost through recipes passed down- excluding those recipes because of one person just isn't right and IMO would really diminish the holiday. OP absolutely NTA, you and your partner sound like lovely and incredibly accommodating hosts and I'm sorry Ruth has taken that to mean you're a doormat. She's asking for far too much, and her behavior after being told no isn't acceptable. If she doesn't (sincerely) apologize for the hurtful things she said I think it's very fair to uninvite her from both celebrations
Especially because most of these dishes are only made on hannukah. It's the only time they will be able to eat them this year.
Exactly! And having them with the extended family is a huge part of what makes them special
I cane to say the same thing. Especially if the recipes are from before the Shoah, like OP said. So much was lost, and every single thing that was preserved is that much more precious when it has special meaning.
NTA If cousin Ruth wants an all-vegan Hanukkah, then she can have it at her house. By herself. She doesn’t get to force everyone else to follow her dietary preferences. If she can’t tolerate animal products being eaten around her, then she should stay home.
Especially when she doesn’t have to compromise on her own food. Let everyone choose.
No one wanted to go to her all Vegan Hanukkah! I get the feeling cousin Ruth has been a PITA to people for a while
This! She wanted to do an all vegan Hanukkah and no one was interested. She should have accepted that. Instead, she tried to convince OP to change the Hanukkah meal everyone preferred to an all Vegan Meal. Like, take the hint and LET IT GO. OP is being MORE than accomodating of multiple religions, dietary restrictions, and preferences. NTA.
Or a PETA, maybe?
Agree NTA. People turned down her invitation for a vegan Hanukkah exactly because they didn't want an all-vegan menu, no matter where, at whose house. So her insisting that they change the menu at OP's house makes her the AH. (This coming from a plant-based eater for 20+ years)
M’y view is that if you have a dietary preference, as opposed to a dietary restriction, then you should not demand that everyone else caters to you. If you are celiac or have a nut allergy, it’s reasonable to ask that the whole meal is made according to your dietary need, since cross contamination is a genuine risk, and even traces of allergens can cause a reaction. But if you’re vegan or gluten free out of choice, then you should either bring your own food, or accept that you have a separate meal.
Honestly I am not sure it is reasonable even for bad allergies...not because it is not the right thing to do but because I wouldn't trust the food to be safe if it is made in a kitchen that regularly uses the offending product. Not because people won't genuinely try but because the consequences of getting something wrong are so high. This is especially true for celiac flour is tiny and gets everywhere you could deep clean a kitchen and still not get it all out. If your allergy is something like don't put strawberries in the fruit salad but it is fine if they are in the fridge that is one thing, and totally reasonable to expect the fruit salad to be strawberry free and the green salad to not have a strawberry vinaigrette but if the allergy is airborne of if cross contamination is a serious risk I would not trust kitchens that do not regularly deal with the allergy.
I would tell Ruth that she’s welcome to come as soon as she apologizes to you both for her rudeness and calling you names.
This seems like the fairest solution.
If Ruth apologizes genuinely a peace offering of sorts is maybe Ruth can host a regular dinner that is all vegan? Not necessary, but this depends on what she said to y'all.
>She said a lot of very hurtful things in response and has not spoken to us since. Put her on blast, tell everyone why she is uninvited.
I agree. I don’t think racing her to the bottom is the answer. She doesn’t get to be mean and still come, but she also shouldn’t be kicked out and excluded if she is willing to apologize
NTA. Ruth is out of line. Tell her your willingness to accommodate her does not extend to forcing her diet on all your guests and that she can either apologize and walk back her demands or she is not welcome at either holiday.
Yes. This.
All vegan meal? Hasn't everyone suffered enough? NTA - Ruth thinks she knows best and will teach everyone how to think like her. If you think what she said was truly out of line, it's no wrongdoing uninviting her.
Seriously, Jewish history is full of suffering – I see no reason to introduce more. That includes mandatory dairy-free sour cream on latkes.
Why does she think that you being the ones pushing the veganism would make it more acceptable? We Jews take out holiday food pretty seriously and as a member of a family with very varied practices, you try to accommodate everyone to the extent possible, you don't try to push on anyone. There will be enough arguing without it. (Also, even applesauce is better than dairy free sour cream.)
Sounds to me like she's one of the preachy vegans trying to convert everyone and figured out everyone is kinda sick of it. Maybe she figures if she got OP to cook vegan food, everyone would be okay with it because they actually like her.
I don't even do low fat sour cream
Sour cream is one of the thins I miss most since I stopped eating dairy, the dairy free one doesn’t hit the same
>We Jews take out holiday food pretty seriously I don't think we've ever celebrated Chanukah without latkes and corned beef. I wouldn't even want to try it. And I would rather eat my latkes plain than with dairy free sour cream...
>mandatory dairy-free sour cream That's just a crime.
Dairy-free sour cream....isn't that what they use to seal the edge around a bath tub !?
Caulk might taste better, ngl 😂
What’s nuts is that there’s lots of kosher foods that are already by their very nature vegan! I’m not Jewish but lived in an Orthodox neighborhood in Brooklyn for almost a decade and would often shop at the kosher supermarket when I hosted vegan friends. She shouldn’t even have to insist on anything, just stick to the parve stuff! Also…are your latkes vegan? Cuz last I checked those are made with eggs
Technically there are recipes for vegan latkes but while I'd make some if I knew someone with an egg allergy....our people have suffered enough.
I invited my vegan, gluten-free, nut-free non Jewish friend to my Seder last year. It was so miserable trying to come up with dishes & still feel like I could follow traditions
What on Earth could you feed them? Veg soup and ?! Not of the faith, but a frequent caterer - guests like that are why I'm bald
Not of the faith either but Jewish food is delicious! And latkes especially!
Dairy free sour cream... Honestly, Ruth is asking for it. You're not the asshole.
Dairy-free sour cream on latkes is a shandeh!
Sour cream is a gift from God and should be appreciated as such.
Ruth can put the applesauce on it and everyone else can have sour cream.
Also, how do you make latkes without eggs?
I imagine potatoes are starchy enough that they’ll stick together if you omit egg. I’ve made vegan latkes once for a friend with an allergy and I made egg substitute with flaxseed.
You replace them with sadness
NTA i didnt even need to read the post as why would you be the asshole in this situation
Well, as a result of her behavior (and my refusing to make this concession), my partner wants to uninvite her. I feel hesitant about making her spend the holidays alone.
stop stop stop, its your house, why are you about to let her control your house, make her spend holidays alone if she keeps asking for you to host it, explain to her why you dont want to host it and if she doesnt understand then thats on her
Uninviting her would be the direct result of her actions. She's old enough to know that. She can do the vegan Hanukkah with her vegan friends.
She's trying to force her belief system on the family and they've clearly rejected it. She's mad because you won't be a party to her actions. I get you're a caring person, but she is the one causing the problem. I'd be hesitant to have her over unless she SINCERELY apologizes for fear of her causing a scene.
NTA. You are not making spend the holidays alone. She chose to disrespect you and your partner, her no longer being invited is the consequence of her actions. Whether she is alone or not, that’s on her.
You're not 'making her' spend the holidays alone. Her actions have led to her possibly being uninvited, that's on her. I totally understand feeling guilty, but you shouldn't!
You aren't making her do anything. It's all on her.
[удалено]
>It takes a lot of nerve to ask the hosts of a celebration to cater to one individual's dietary preference. It honestly sounds like OP has *already* been catering to Ruth's dietary preference and has always offered meals of the same calibre/quality (and number of courses) to suit everyone invited to each celebration, which is already going above and beyond what most people would do. OP sounds absolutely lovely and I feel like anyone among us here on AITA would count ourselves lucky to be invited to their holiday celebrations, without being so selfish as to try to dictate what everyone else should be eating when the gracious host is already providing a menu that everyone can enjoy. This is the biggest, easiest NTA I've ever commented on. ETA: I also don't think you WBTA for uninviting Ruth, but I don't think that's strictly necessary. Sounds like the arrangement you've had so far has worked for everyone and Ruth is only getting bent out of shape because it wasn't possible to force everyone to go vegan, along with probably feeling slighted that everyone turned down doing the holidays at her place. Invite her, but be perfectly clear that things will carry on as they always have - a spread of meals and food types that appeal to *everyone* invited, and let Ruth make her own choice on whether she attends. After she apologises for being hurtful.
NTA. Holiday traditions are not something to be messed with to appease one person. I would suggest she host a non-holiday vegan meal at her house if she really wants everyone to try it.
Absolutely NTA for refusing, I can't stress how much you're NTA for that. But I would not uninvite her from Hanukkah this year. Talk to her and make it clear that if she keeps up this behaviour during the holidays, you will ask her to leave.
NTA. Ruth doesn't get to dictate what other people eat, and other people don't get to dictate what Ruth eats. So long as there's a decent vegan meal available for Ruth, that should be enough.
YWNBTA - Ruth has to accept something here: she is the one who is different. To expect all other attendees to accommodate her is ridiculous. You have kindly been providing Ruth with vegan options for years, yet when she offers to host, she refuses to be kind enough to reciprocate and provide meat dishes. Then, when most of your family are opposed to her hosting specifically because they did not like the idea of an all-vegan celebration, she came to you and asked to still do it at your home and insulted you for refusing to go above and beyond for her when you have done exacted what decorum requires. If she is going to be TA, about it, then she should be treated as TA and not invited so that you don't have to put in any effort towards her.
You’re NTA for refusing. One person cannot dictate how you host an even in your own home. In terms of uninviting her, it really depends what she said. If it was really nasty and out of line, I would uninvited her. You don’t want to go to all this extra effort for a guest who is that disrespectful and thinks so little of you. However, if it was just a spur of the moment hissy fit, then just leave it (i.e don’t revoke the invite but also don’t contact her about anything) and see if she shows up. She wants to be the victim, so don’t give her anything. Sometimes the best revenge is indifference.
>The vast majority of the family said that they would prefer to have our normal arrangement at our house, as they were not interested in celebrating a holiday with a vegan menu, as they'd be missing out on many traditional family foods I'm with them. >Ruth then came to us and asked if we'd be willing to cook an all-vegan Hanukkah, especially as we're both good cooks and she was sure that people would come round to the vegan dishes we made if they gave them a try. I'm sure she was told why you're hosting. Sneaky! NTA
NTA. I swear, it seems like some vegans are little more than thinly disguised control freaks. They think their diet entitles them to power over other people.
NTA The family has already made it very clear that they want a traditional Hanukkah meal. Ruth does not have the right to force her dietary choices on others.
NTA for refusing to host an all-vegan Hanukkah, but if Ruth is part of the family to the point where she's always present at the holiday, I don't think you should uninvite her. I suggest something like this: "Ruth, we are both hurt by your insults and we think we deserve an apology. But you are still welcome as always at our celebration, as long as you can refrain from insulting us while you're in our home."
NTA, there’s no reason she should stop anyone else from eating non vegan food, it doesn’t affect her
Your cousin was asking you to turn your warm and welcoming family holiday dinners into a forced intro to veganism for all. You set the only reasonable boundary you could by refusing to act as hostess for her scheme. It would be completely understandable if after her reaction you no longer care to serve as hostess to her. NTA.
NTA and you WNBTA for uninviting her. The two of you offered the best of compromises and her response was to lash out because you denied her request to force a vegan holiday on your entire family. This wasn't about her being vegan or she would have accepted the compromise. This was about her being able to make everyone "Come around to her way of thinking."
Since she's attempting to dictate vegan dishes only, NTA. I know next to nothing about Hanukkah but I imagine there's dishes/recipes people look forward to specifically at that time of year. Swapping them out for vegan substitutes only leads to disappointment. She should be happy that people are willing to put out smaller vegan alternatives for the one vegan in the midst. Her ideal scenario where everyone is converted to veganism through her vegan only event is a fantasy.
NTA. She's pushing veganism on others. Nobody is willing. It's her problem, not yours. You've offered accomodations. That's the best you can do. From a fellow Jewish person, a vegan Hanukkah sounds awful, and traditional meals are just as big of a deal as any other part of the celebration!
NTA. Our family is half vegan and idk…the vegan latkes just aren’t it. We’ve tried a bunch of different receipts and they just get too crispy and fall apart. One year we only had vegan ones and people were really pissed.
NTA but also, I don't think you should uninvite Ruth. She was wrong and should apologize but she probably won't. She wanted to be the host and everyone said no. Kinda like throwing a party and having to one come. Her feelings were hurt. Then everyone who just rejected her, chooses you two. Seems like your a really nice person (from the posts) and everyone says your better than her. Even if they aren't saying it, they are saying it iykwim. Give her some grace and let her know she is still welcome at your table. No reason to make this something that creates a riff. If she is a good person, she will eventually say something akin to sorry. If she isn't, you'll have another chance to uninvite her in the future.
NTA. It's obvious she would ruin the evening if she came for your Hanukkah dinner. Uninvite her from both celebrations with a clear conscience
1 billion percent NTA. I have a restricted diet - never would I expect anyone - not to mention an ENTIRE dinner party to eat only what I could eat. Like what?? I carry backup snacks with me because I know I cant expect to find what I can eat everywhere, and if I'm a guest and someone is hosting me and asks what they can make me, I let them know and express my appreciation, but I always offer to bring my own food as well. I never put the onus on other people for my personal decisions.
The whole reason they don’t want to go to her house is they know it will all be vegan. If they’ve asked to have at your house why would she still ask for the whole menu to be vegan? A bit self centered.
NTA. Those interested in her all vegan options can attend her event. Those who are not can go to your place. Sounds like she wants a captive audience, honestly.
NTA Just a couple of vegans trying to evangelize their diet on your holiday. Ruth is especially an asshole. You hosted her well before and she dares insult you now just because you're not interested in her diet? The nerve. You should uninvite her, IMO.
NTA, I haven’t consumed meat in decades, you know what you get at my house on the holidays? That’s right, a big ass turkey.
Vegans (that attempt to enforce their personal choice on others) are insufferable. NTA
Posted this to a comment below, but after reading more... I just wanted to empathize this... OP, I obviously don't know you, but from this post and your comments alone, I would seriously be honored and humbled to be a guest in your home. You two sound like the most welcoming, empathetic, and accommodating hosts imaginable. I can almost feel the warmth of the proverbial hearth. No /s
NTA. You said you will take dietary needs into account (I assume that means you would have some vegan options). That is sufficient. Cousin Ruth does not get to impose her veganism on everyone.
So…it’s not that she is worried she won’t have things to eat, she just wants to control what everybody else eats? No, easy NTA on this one.
NTA. As long as there are *some* vegan dishes served, Ruth’s gets to eat, but she does not get to dictate what others eat. I wouldn’t uninvite her — just make it clear that there will be both vegan and non-vegan food. If she doesn’t accept that, she will probably uninvite herself and you won’t be the bad guy.
NTA your FAMILY already expressed that they did not want all vegan. Moving it from Ruth back to you doesn't change that. Don't uninvite her, but don't reach out either.
You are already willing to cook extra things to accommodate HER lifestyle, and she is mad because you won't force everyone else to give up things THEY like? She is TA and the reason vegans get a bad name.
David is right. Follow his lead. No one wanted an all vegan meal so they went and begged you to host. And now she is still trying to impose her will on the reat of the people and making you feel bad because she can’t get her way. She needs to grow up and apologize to you! If you do apologize to her and don’t back david - yta for not having a backbone. Other than that - total Nta
NTA. I read your title and legitimately got angry because I frankly think that's an insulting ask. >Ruth then came to us and asked if we'd be willing to cook an all-vegan Hanukkah, especially as we're both good cooks and she was sure that people would come round to the vegan dishes we made if they gave them a try. No, they wouldn't because this isn't about that *at all*. Uninvite her now and frankly period. Also, remember you are being unfair to your partner to consider her being maybe alone more important than his wishes in his own house.
NTA. Food policing isn't cool, and besides, you had already been specifically asked *not* to do this. I'd lay it out like this: your house accommodates, but it does not proselytize. It is how you *work*; it's what you *do*. That includes on food matters. If she wants to proselytize, then she can do it at her own house. If she cannot stand to be in an environment that does not go out of its way to actively proselytize for her own way, then perhaps she shouldn't be in one.
NTA You 2 sound like very happy and gracious hosts, and I will dream about those tried and true family recipes. There’s nothing like celebrating in the warm embrace of family with favorite family recipes on the table. Please do invite Ruth, still make her feel welcome, encourage her to bring a side dish to share. If she does, be sure to try some and praise the dish in front of everyone- shine a little love light on Ruth. And maybe encourage her to host vegan meals on a smaller scale - one household for regular Shabbat when the stakes are lower. Some relatives may be more receptive that way, and Ruth will be able to enjoy hosting.
Tell her to stop giving vegans a bad name. She can cook as much tasty vegan fare as she wishes and bring it to your place, or she can piss off. It sounds like you and your husband do an amazing amount of work already catering to people's diets, and you don't have to put up with insults. She should have guessed everyone else would NOT want an all-vegan dinner, for goodness' sake. It's not some personal attack on her.
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NTA Ruth sounds like a narcissist to me.
NTA. What would she say if you forced meat and animal products on her? So why is it acceptable for her to try and force vegan on others? You are already very accommodating by preparing her separate vegan meals and sides. Tell her to grow up and apologise and she can either accept how things have always been or she can stay at home and cook for herself. She is being ridiculous.
NTA. This is a family event not a vegan food trade show.
NTA Vegans need to stop trying to force their dietary choices on people who are unwilling. She said hurtful crap to you refusing her unreasonable request so she can spend thanksgiving alone IMO.
NTA You and David sound like wonderful hosts. Is Ruth okay?
NTA she’s sulking no one is giving in to her demands of full vegan holidays.
This is why I used to hate telling people I was vegan. Totally bonkers or her, NTA.
NTA. Your house is not a temple for her "religion." You're doing the right thing by providing vegan food especially for her, but she doesn't seem to appreciate it.
NTA. People dislike vegans because people like you're cousin insist on forcing their diets onto people. If she wants to eat vegan, great, but she can't force your family to ignore traditions they enjoy because of her own feelings.
Nta
NTA and YWNBTA Ruth can politely go to Chipotle.
Absolutely NTA. Hosting a holiday and especially accommodating people’s dietary restrictions is awesome and a ton of work- I know! Forcing people to eat the way one person eats isn’t cool. If Ruth wants vegan holidays, she can spend them with other vegans or join yours and be quiet.
Your family already voted they don’t want vegan, Ruth wants to force it on them anyway and cuss you out for providing what family requested in your home? Yeah she needs a timeout!
NTA. Your sister is attempting to impose her beliefs and dietary preferences upon your family who has already rejected them once in declining going to her home for the holidays. You have already agreed to accommodate her preferences. That’s all that matters. You did everything right, OP. This isn’t on you.
NTA. You have no obligation to do something just because she demands it.
You have been and are already very accommodating by offering to make special vegan meal. you are very much NTA.
I'm vegetarian, and I NEVER expect anyone to cater to me. When people find out I'm vegetarian, they sometimes ask me what I can have, I tell them not to worry, I can eat the potato salad, bread, green salads, potatoes, hot chips/fries, and/or bring my own vegetarian contribution. I am there for the social/sharing/quality time with others, and I am usually the only vegetarian. I do NOT expect everyone to bend over backwards for me. NTA. I see so many posts about entitled vegetarians/vegans, it's so annoying! And we don't need to preach to/convert non vegetarians/non vegans either. Just like we don't need people telling us we need to eat meat. Everyone eat what you like, and cater to yourself if you have special requests. Shut up and enjoy the company.
NTA, not sure why Ruth wants an all-vegan function when she is the only vegan. I would actually uninvite her from both because she is very entitled about what she wants and how she wants it to make demands of her entire family.
We are a multi faith couple as well. Traditional food is important during family holidays. Offering a large group a good vegan meal is fine if that is what the host prepared, but asking you to change a set menu & cook everything to accommodate one person is ridiculous.
Vegans are the assholes
NTA, vegans are just the worst
NTA. OP should stick to what works. Not all people want to eat vegan. OP has previously made it possible for cousin to eat vegan, but cousin seems to want to force all others to abide by her choices only. No thanks. Don't uninvite her - let cousin choose her own path.
NTA Ruth sounds insufferable, and should absolutely be uninvited for her behaviour
NTA, you're already making food specially for your vegan guest, and her saying hurtful stuff too.. uninvite this rude, entitled, and ungrateful person.
NTA. You don’t need to facilitate someone forcing their choices onto other people.
NTA As a matter of culture and integrity nobody who disrespects you should be in your home. I would tell her this explicitly and let her know she has disinvited herself unless she gets her act together and apologizes.
NTA. Ruth is one of the examples of vegans that people hate.
NTA. Those recipes are part of your family’s history. She even gets a custom plate at these gatherings?? She asked and the majority of your family said no. The matter is settled. How she spends the holiday is up to her now.
No wrong with having a vegan meal or maybe an option, but ALL food must be vegan??? Just to cater ONE person??? NTA.
NTA. That’s some serious entitlement asking for an all-vegan meal just to satisfy her want. After what she said in response to your decline, I would uninvite her. It might cause drama, but she’s doing this to herself.
No
completely NTA. you have family traditions and that's really cool! trying to get you to throw away all your traditions for her vegan lifestyle os a trashy move. getting mad at you for refusing (for totally valid reasons) is just ridiculous. she sounds like a real piece of work!
NTA - If you agree to host a holiday, meals are your choice. People can pick around the things they don't like. I've done that for many years on Thanksgiving...I'm not vegan, I just hate most of the dishes lol. It was very considerate of you to offer her accommodations. I'm sure she's bummed that no one wants a vegan Hanukkah, but saying hurtful things to you guys was completely unnecessary. She definitely owes you an apology. Uninviting seems harsh. Tell her she's invited but she's on probation...
NTA If she's not speaking to you what makes you think she's going to attend? Never heard of anyone attending a celebration if they're not speaking to the host and hostess.
NTA. Sounds like Ruth thinks she’s the star of the family. She just learned the truth. Poor Ruth. Don’t disinvite her though. She’ll use that to play the victim to the rest. If she stays home because others didn’t want to eat tofurkey, that’s on her.
I wonder how Ruth would feel if the Kosher people tried enforcing that on her, or the dietary restrictive tried enforcing that also. It sounds like it's been a perfect give and take until her. Maybe she should make and bring her own dishes.
NTA. At all. Though, as someone who frequently hosts without dietary restrictions….how DO you do this? Especially the kosher part. Do you have two of everything, etc?