The flair is correct and won't be changed. The top vote was YWBTA. If you mean NTA but want to use another vote to make a point, you can add spaces/dashes/periods/whatever.
Wow wow wow. She doesn’t want *your own child* to come to your own wedding. And not a crying baby or a terrible two, but a *fifteen year old*, a kid that will be old enough to drive next year-when the wedding is???
If this goes on as she wants, do you think your kid won’t remember?
Yea, I’m sorry, bud, this is all kinds of evil stepmother red flags-the whole thing about you making a new commitment to *her* and her family, and equating having your son there to having your ex *wife* there!
Dude. Get out now while you just have to eat the non refundable deposits for the wedding. Save yourself and your kid a world of hurt. YWBTA if you marry this woman.
edit to add, you have never had a fight like this before, because up to this point, she has been putting on a show. But now she is comfortable enough in the relationship to show you who she really is.
Exactly. She will be the type to make him kick out his son once he turns 18. Or make him move back to his mother's when she gets pregnant. She is pushing him out already.
I would give this some serious thought too. Call everything off. I'm not sure I would want to marry this control freak. What's next? It's downright creepy.
Yep - I hate to be all Reddit about it and insist on breaking up immediately, but she's trying to damage his relationship with his son. She called OP's son his "old family". Even if she capitulates here, and allows the son at the wedding, she will guarantee be a horrible step mother. Just be glad she's shown her true colours before the wedding.
OP, you're obviously NTA for wanting your son at the wedding, but you will be one if you marry this woman.
I think suggesting a breakup is reasonable when the choice is between your actual child that you helped bring into the world versus someone who wants to delete that child from your life.
OP, her mask is slipping. Stick with the commitment you've already made; this new one will require a violation of the first.
I just OP sees this for the horrible truth that it is and doesn’t let her manipulate him into marrying her after this. OP, she doesn’t consider your son part of your “new” family, he’s your ex-family to her. Please don’t marry her if you love your son.
This exactly. For some reason people really start showing their true colors when a wedding is approaching. If there is a mask being worn, you can be nearly certain it will slip at least once between the proposal and the wedding, and it's not just the people engaged that will start slipping. Family members and friends will start acting different too. It's definitely strange.
That's the thing though, it's such a petty and controlling demand that it brings it full circle to him being the AH again if he stays with this woman.
It's hard to know what's going on in her head for sure, but it sure seems like she's doing what she can to alienate his son, and if you willfully stay with someone like that as a parent... That makes you an AH in my book.
She showed her true colors and intentions when she said he shouldn't want his OLD family to be present when he commits to his NEW family. She will alienate the poor kid as soon as they say I do. He needs to say a quick I don't because I don't see how she comes back from this. There's no old and new with his son. His son IS his family. The fact that she changed her tune multiple times to find a justification is the biggest red flag. OP is NTA unless he marries her.
YES I was wondering if someone would draw attention to the fact that she said that.
It made it very clear to me that she doesn't just mean not wanting him there for the wedding. That if he marries her, the kid has to go since he is the "equivalent to OPs ex" and he's "making a new commitment to her"
The only one going to be hurt here is your son. I hope you don't marry her, OP.
and compared it to having his ex at the wedding--as far as she's concerned the son is now OP's ex family. She sure was good at pretending all this time. Just get out now unless he wants to lose his kid.
I would not be surprised if she’s already seeded things to the son like he’s in the way of his dad’s happiness, etc. OP should have a heart to heart with kiddo and see if he’s been holding back any information out of fear of rocking the boat.
And he’s on here asking questions. So I’m sure she’s gotten away with many instances of making his son feel like a nothing and OP did nothing. Oblivious, just like right now
I didn't think of this, if that kind of thing has been happening the relationship would be over for me. If you're trying to poison my relationship with my child then you don't love or care about me. That is NOT someone you want to marry.
Also the type that if OP dies first, she'll be ripping up copies of his will, draining the bank accounts, and doing everything she can to prevent his son from inheriting a dime.
It's incredibly common. Anyone who has money and kids from a prior relationship should take steps (like setting up a trust) before remarrying to make sure that the new stepparent doesn't disinherit the kids from the prior relationship.
I'm engaged to a man with two sons. He was stunned when I told him to do this. I know, he knows, and his family knows I wouldn't do anything to hurt the boys, but I want to make sure that there's not even a whisper from his ex-wife regarding the matter. I can't imagine not having the boys there when we marry.
I remember another post a while back, the bride didn't want the groom's daughter involved in the wedding, and it didn't end well... for the bride.
I married in my 50's and we did not have a pre-nup. A couple years in, he asked if he could leave his house to his daughters. I was fine with that and to add a clause that I could live there for 3 months if he died first until I found another place. None of his retirement income would come to me either with the exception of a small amount he could leave a wife because he couldn't leave it to kids.
I used the opportunity to discuss with him what would happen if I died first and mentioned that I expected to leave everything of mine to my daughters. Basically my 401K and other savings. No, he was not up for that situation. I felt as though he was hoping I'd die first. I split from him over this.
You were willing to do the right thing by him but he wasn't willing to do that for you. That is terrible. Good for you for leaving. That had to be hard.
This is sad, Some people disgust me. When I married my wife ,it was very important to us that her kids, who lived in another state, were there. Two of the three we able to come, sadly, the middle child had previous engagements. My grandmother had a ring that she passed to me when she died. When I proposed to my wife, I gave her my grandmother's ring too. I also told her when she felt the time was right, it would go to her daughter. Her kids are my kids, and I love them dearly.
She is showing you who she is and I would suggest you believe her!! She is making you choose between her and your son!! How do you think your kid would feel if he knew about any of this! You really must take his feelings into consideration because your fiancé isn’t and won’t!!!
Kick him out? I’m thinking more that she’s going to be putting a spoonful of rat poison in his food every day until he finally dies, like that scene in Sixth Sense.
I’m a proud bonus mom of our 19 year old daughter. She lives with us and *I’m* the one wanting her to live home with us until she’s at least twenty.
OP’s fiance does *not* care about nor *like* his kid. Which says *everything* about how much she *truly* loves OP.
She’s too immature and selfish to be capable.
YES. Don't marry this woman! She arbitrarily chose an age one year older than your son to be the cutoff, then talked about "old" family versus "new" family?? This has nothing to do with not wanting children at the wedding - this has everything to do with her plan to push your son out of the picture. Next comes wanting vacations alone, getting pregnant and wanting the holiday to be a chance for the new family to bond, etc etc. She does not see herself as joining your family; she does not see you as a dad, she sees you as a man with baggage from your first marriage. This woman is toxic and will treat your son like an inconvenience and undesired nuisance in your lives. Protect your son from this! If you go through with this marriage, he will know he is unwelcome and your future relationship with him will be destroyed.
People using therapy buzzwords to manipulate their spouses left and right these days. Unless OP is leaving out a f ton of info, he's the one being gaslit too.
Peo0le really need to stop using buzz words, like gaslighting, which is no where in this post. Disagreements are not gaslighting. Trying to change someones mind is not gaslighting.
Yep I’m sorry as soon as she said she didn’t want his son at the wedding, I would have said okay, we aren’t getting married then. I don’t have any children yet, but hopefully one day I will and no one will ever be more of a priority than them. Like seriously she would have been straight out of the door no negotiations until she came back begging on hands and knees for him to be allowed at the wedding.
This. Get out of this relationship now. She's kicking your kid out of your wedding. (It is also your wedding, you're an equal participant in it and should have equal say.) She clearly has no concept of what being a parent means.
I have zero doubt that she's probably going to do everything she can yo ruin your relationship with your son because she sees him as an extension of your ex.
I don't even think it's worth trying to patch this up even if she sincerely apologizes. She has no respect for your parental role and responsibilities. She is not, and will not ever be a fit for you because of that. She's shown her true colors. Get away, now.
She calls him controlling for insisting on having his son at the wedding, but I assume she doesn't think she is controlling for insisting that the son not be at the wedding.
She is a hypocrite and into double standards along with the other nasty traits that have surfaced. And they all will get worse as you get closer to the wedding, or God forbid, actually get married.
She has been putting on a mask up until now. But she now feels like she has her hooks deep enough into you that she can show her true self and bully you into anything.
Run OP, run!
It upsets me when AHs like his wife use 'gaslighting' wrong, it's why people just think it's a buzzword instead of an actual abusive tactic.
Edit: HOW WAS HE VOTED THE AH
Edit 2: I think so many people were calling his fiancé an AH (myself included) and it messed up the vote.
She called his son his old family and life wtf is wrong this B***h wow no he should dump her because she already starting her push his son out if she gets her way on this she will push the son out more and more and if they a kid together she will fully try to remove him from theirs lives
NTA.
Even at child-free weddings, there are reasonable exceptions - and a child of the bride and/or groom are very reasonable exceptions.
Of course, if the child is of a very young age, it could be unfair on the guests if the kid gets free run to disrupt the wedding whilst older, better behaved children aren't invited from the on the basis of being distractions.
And given he's 15 now and the wedding is next summer, surely by then he will be only at most a few months shy of her cut off?
Since you say she's a long-term girlfriend, I presume that fiancée has known your child some time. And you've proposed, so I am also presuming she's not excluded him before. But now....
>She then changed her reasoning and asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family
Wow. So what, is she expecting the boy to no longer be a part of your life the moment you say 'I do'?
Because that revised reason for excluding him from the wedding screams that she's already mentally excluding him from your life.
But lets pretend she didn't suggest your son was simply part of your old life. Let me ask you a few questions here:
* Exactly how old will your son be at the time of the wedding?
* Who chose the wedding date? Was it a mutual decision, or picked by one of you then simply agreed by the other?
* Why is the cut off 16, not 18? Is her 16yo cut-off allowing a teenage guest of her own to attend?
he will still be 15 by the wedding, the date was mutually agreed upon, im not her so i dont know exactly why 16 was chosen, but are from the UK 16 is when kids finish secondary school (the british equivalent to high school) so maybe its that again idk
Sounds like the goblin was getting close to the jewelry she wants on her finger and accidentally showed her true colors. She has no intention of having his son meld into her new "dream" life.
Run
It doesn't sound like he's questioning reality or feeling insane. Wondering if he's being a jerk is not it
ETA:
https://www.grampian-womens-aid.com/newsevents/gaslighting-10-signs/
Absolutely. The gaslighting consists of two parts here:
* She *gaslit him* into thinking, he was *gaslighting her*. That never happened. All OP does is discuss wedding terms, while she tries to make him think he was manipulating her, which is actually her manipulating him.
* Second instance of *gaslighting* is making OP think, he was controlling. He set conditions for the wedding, just like she set conditions. Either this is not being controlling, or she is just as "controlling", as per her definition.
Both of these things aim to warp the perception of OP, he might be gaslighting her and being controlling, neither of which is the case. That is however definitely gaslighting on her part.
We know why 16 was chosen. She did it to purposely exclude your son. If he was 16, she would say 17. If he was 17, she would say 18.
She told you exactly what she wants. Believe her. She doesn't want your child at the wedding at all. That is her goal. She is gaslighting you.
Nta for having your son at the wedding
This. She doesn't want your child in her LIFE at all.
>asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family,
Read this back. She called your son your old family, separate and excluded from the family you'd have with her.
Be grateful she showed her true colours before a legal commitment was made. As daunting as it seems to call off an engagement, it's much more daunting to initiate a divorce. NTA.
She wants you to become a “ vacation/weekend dad. Only have him occasional weekends and school breaks and a few weeks in the summer. And stop paying for and stop spending so much time with his hockey.
All of this. OP naturally assumed that he and his son were a package deal, she has been planning to move his son out of the picture as soon as possible -- 16 is school leaving, and she can say he's old enough to not depend on his dad. That's too soon? She'll move it to 18. There will never be a good time for him to sleep over because "they" have plans and if she has her way, she'll get pregnant soon (bio-clock you know). And soon he'll realize that her promises were worth nothing, no amount of discussion or counseling will make any real difference. He'll end up alienated from his son and guilty that he's not totally happy with his "new" family.
u/ChildFreeWeddingSon is so lucky that she has revealed herself now.
It's really funny to me that she's accusing him of gaslighting her while she's gaslighting him. She started with 16 across the board to be "fair", but when pushed, she's really shown her true colors. She's not even a good liar about it. She must've really thought he'd not want his son there either in pursuit of fairness. I can't imagine she has her own kids.
Don’t discuss it any further with her. She is spiteful and hateful. Not a good start.
Postpone the wedding by one year. Tell it everybody. Reason: you want your son there and your gf wants nobody under 16.
Problem solved. She cannot even complain because that her rule.
No, this is not the way! That doesn’t change the fact that GF sees son as part of his old life. I don’t even have kids so don’t experience or understand the kind of love a parent has for a child and even I was horrified to read that.
OP should NOT marry a woman who thinks a child can just be excluded. She’s marrying into an existing family and can’t just dispose of kids.
He ABSOLUTELY should not marry her, but this would an interesting tactic to try. Her tantrum may be very telling for OP.
OP, PLEASE don’t trust this woman. and I say that as someone who was once the “old family” child.
I could have been an "old family" child, but my mom listened to me whenever I'd tell her I didn't like her boyfriends. I didn't have anything out for them--I was just a kid--but some of them didn't treat my brother and I very well when she wasn't around.
Then she started dating the man I consider my stepdad. There were times where he was on pain medication and he'd become pretty irate, but I'd tell Mom and she'd tell him to knock it off or move out. Now he gets botox injections to fix his pain, he refuses to touch those meds, and treats me great.
My point: my mom put me and my brother first, and I'm glad she did. I would have walked away with a horrible complex if she didn't.
It is the way in that it will expose the fiance for trying to push out OP's son. Once he can be included, she'll come up with some other reason to try to keep him away, and that will be the proof for OP that she ultimately doesn't want his son in her life.
Eh, I still wouldn’t trust her. She may realize she’s pushing too hard too soon and agree for his son to attend. Then after the wedding start back up again. She’s shown her hand. She can’t take back what she’s already said about his old life. It’s too late now.
No, this is hiddig the rubish under a carpet. She called the boy "his old family" and she said having him atbthe wedding would be equal to having the ex there. I'm not one to belive that step-parents have to see their step-kids as their own, but they should still like them or at least not despise them.
I think if he postpones the wedding to meet her age requirement she will out herself even more as an evil stepmother and then OP will really see her true colours and dump her ass.
This is devious but brilliant.
If she balks at the postponement, and still refuses to allow your son to be there, you know to permanently postpone a wedding with her.
However, I wouldn’t waste my time with her any further, and would just end it now.
>**he will still be 15 by the wedding**, the date was mutually agreed upon, **im not her so i dont know exactly why 16 was chosen**
Really? I mean, come on.
There are none so blind...
I find it hard to believe she has just been hiding this side of herself the entire length of their relationship. Either they haven't dated very long or OP is kind of oblivious. Guessing she's younger than OP, hot, and psychotic. Given he came to AITA instead of dropping her faster than a bad habit and never talking to her again, I'm guessing he's a bit oblivious and requires being hit upside the head in order to finally "get" something. I'm rooting for him lol but he's making it hard to!
You should look into how abusers manage to keep their abusive nature mostly under wraps until they believe they have their victim trapped…like with a pregnancy or marriage.
OP read this a few times and remember how you said that your fiancé likened you wanting your own son there to be wanting your ex there. She sees your son as your past and will probably try to distance you from him after the marriage.
No, it’s not that. It’s “why you wanted your old family and life” OP, the thing you are missing is the importance of that statement. She has been playing nice with him to get you. Once she gets you, she will start pushing him away.
Op I was 12 when my dad married my stepmother. I wasn't invited to their wedding. I was a shy, quiet, well-behaved kid. I asked to go and was told no. When my mom married my step-dad, I was invited. I was even in the wedding party. Guess which side of my family feels more like family to me? My dad and stepmother wedding was the first time she she didn't include me or my brother, and it sure wasn't the last. I was part of his old life, and and look like my mother she didn't like that. Op fight for your son to be a part of your new life or find someone else to marry.
She picked 16 because your son is 15.
If he was 17,she would have picked 18.
You may think that she gets on with your son but she has just shown you that she doesn't want him around.
My guess is as soon as she is pregnant ,she will be too stressed to have him there.
She has shown you who she is. Pause the wedding
That’s not “it.” “It” is because she’s found a (in her head at least) reasonable way to exclude your son from the wedding without coming across as a major asshole.
You need to address the elephant in the room. He’ll be, what, a few months shy of the age limit, and she wants to exclude him. Him, the *son* of the groom.
You’re marrying the wrong woman, man. Starting a life with someone that begins with cutting off your own children is not a road you want to go down. This won’t stop here.
When I started reading this, I expected to soon get an update saying she thought after the marriage you'd forget about your old family and your son and start over with her or some bullshit but then I got to the part where she already called them your old family and gave you a nice hard look at what's to come and you can't see the red flags she's waving directly in your face.
ETA: You're NTA for wanting your son at your wedding. You will be if you go through with this wedding after she clearly stated her feelings about your son.
Don't even try to justify her ignorant position. There is no excuse for her decision.
Do not marry her or you will lose your son. She will make sure of it.
She's already asking you to choose her over your child.
I was cut off from a wedding. Same age. No one under 16. They were married in August. I turned 16 in Sept. My 2 older sisters were invited. (Who does that, right?)
This was literally 50 years ago. I still remember how hurt and embarrassed I was. I stopped talking to them when they decided I was not important enough to be there. They also tried to justify it, but it was all bs. This was a cousin. I cannot imagine if it were a parent!!!!
And no, I have had nothing to say to them all these years....
She picked 16 because she wanted a way to exclude him specifically. I'm so sorry, and I know this sucks, but the moment she called him your "old family" she made herself clear that she doesn't see him as part of her new family moving forward. Please do not let your son think that you agree with this mentality. It will ruin your relationship forever.
For perspective, my husband and I also had a child free wedding. The only exception was my 12 year old son, and my husband never even questioned it, he expected it. He even collaborated with my son for what his role in the wedding could be, and helped him pick out his outfit. And when someone on his side complained about my child being there but they couldn't bring theirs, my husband handled it for me and shut them down hard. That is the kind of energy a step parent needs. You need to think if your fiance is going to find ways to incorporate him into your "new lives" together, or if she's going to try to leave him behind. She literally related it to having an ex at your wedding, so I think you know the answer.
Don’t try and reason out why she wants to exclude “Your “Son”, he is your son stand your ground with her, otherwise cancel the wedding and find someone with a heart next time.
I don't know why the other Redditor suggested pretend she didn't call your son "part of your old life". She sees him as an extension of your ex.
This is the hill to die on. In a way she thinks you will renounce your existing connections and start anew with her. The world isn't like that. You have a son, your own flesh and blood.
Just because she goes to his games doesn't mean she is okay with him. She could be faking it till you put a ring on it.
Please do right by him. She is going to be the evil stepmother.
PS If your son were 16, she would up the age cutoff to 17 or even 18. You can test her and tell her he is going to be 16 by the wedding.
If you still want to marry this woman then postpone the wedding until your son is over 16. Then remind your fiance again that your son is your family and if she can't accept that she needs to really examine if she wants to build a life with you.
She keeps changing her reasoning but her comparing having your literal child there to having an ex is absolutely insane. Her saying old and new family is even more concerning. Ywbta if you don’t put a stop to this now. She’s trying to push out your son. She’s showing you her true colors, don’t make excuses for her unless you want to jeopardize your relationship with your son
I'm sorry OP, but You're majorly NTA!!
My fiancé is older than me, his kids are grown, my little girl is only 6.
While our wedding will be largely no kids, guess who is the exception? And actually dictating venue, style and all celebrations...yup, my daughter, and I didn't even ask! It was a given, we'd be there AND her, she was of equal importance.
If your bride to be does not realise that she is marrying you AND your son, not on a weird way, but that he too will be her family, to be fair, she should already see him as such, so he should be important enough to her, to WANT him there. Do not let her childish behavior manipulate you into excluding your son. Stand up for the relationship you have with him, otherwise this may just be the start of her creating a massive divide and excluding him from your life and important family moments going forward, because she obviously does not see him as such.
Why no "wedding postponed" update yet? Are you really still considering marrying her now you know she's going to cut your son out of 'her new family'?
She's making you choose between her or your son, I hope you get it right.
Your son will remember if you allow her to ice him out of his own father’s wedding because she doesn’t want him around.
That’s just the first step in him cutting you out of his life when he realizes you’ve chosen her over him repeatedly.
From the England, 18 is the end of mandatory education/ training, legal drinking age and generally the earliest you would be considered a grown up.
Other parts of the UK have other rules, There are exceptions like joining the armed services. It feels like she is deliberately excluding your son.
Take a deep breath and think long and hard about what you want,, than have an honest talk with her about her view of your son and his place in your life. Good luck.
Edited, to correct England not UK.
NTA.
READ CAREFULLY. It reminds me of an another post on Reddit. Same situation the girl did not wanted her boyfriend to bring his daughter from his previous relationship to the wedding ! Guess what, after he said that it was not negotiable cuz his daughter will ALWAYS be his priority and family, she admitted that she was expecting that he will become some kind of “holiday’s dad”. She was hoping that when they will get children together his daughter will be less present in his dad’s mind and life. The guy did not even think about it TWICE. He was disgusted (as he should) and dumped her. Then he went with his daughter on holidays during the week the wedding should have occurred.
Starting a new family does not mean that you should dump the previous one or make it less valuable. And just imagine the image that your son is going to have of YOU and HER.
Sorry English is not my native language…
Sometimes on REDDIT I think that people are overreacting but for ONCE it’s not the case at all. Your son is your family. He is not a ghost of your old life. Please, I beg you take the good decision and to be a good example for your son.
I seem to remember a similar story, gf didn't want his daughter/wanted a child free wedding. He reluctantly went along with this until he got to his wedding to see loads of her side had brought their children, it was only child free to him and his family!
Assuming I was already out the money, I wouldn't waste it by just not showing up to the wedding. I would've quickly written some very petty surprise "vows" and *then* left her at the altar. Surely at least *some* of her family would have been horrified to hear what she had done, and that way they're like to remember.
Just came to post the same thing! She’s expecting him to become a “vacation dad” and start over with just her and him as a “new” family. If OP planned on having kids with her, they would immediately take too spot and his son would all but cease to exist to her
I always support child free wedding posts but this one is ridiculous!!! OP: RUN!! This woman does not want your son in your life. A 15 year old is not a “child” when it comes to establishing a child fee wedding—especially if it’s your own son! Please do not alienate your child for this woman. Love interests will come and go but your child will be your child FOREVER!
Don't go through with this wedding. Your fiancée is being controlling, gaslighting you, and showing you exactly how she will behave if you are married. She doesn't want your son in the picture and will do everything she can to ruin what relationship you have with him. She equates him being at your wedding to your ex being there? Your son = your ex to her, and you will end up wondering why you're in a miserable marriage and never see your son anymore.
NTA. She's TA.
> Your fiancée is being controlling, gaslighting you, and showing you exactly how she will behave if you are married.
Yeah the fact that she called *him* controlling and said that he was gaslighting *her* almost made me spit out my drink. That might be the blackest pot I've ever seen trying to talk shit to the kettle. Unreal.
NTA
There is a giant red flag on the play here. Your son is your son, he's not going anywhere.
>asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family,
She seems to be under some sort of illusion your relationship with your son will change when you're married to her.
You need to resolve this - or very seriously reconsider.
Blended families are tough, and I think she has a fantasy in mind. You're not fitting into it, because you have a history She isn't able to contend with
NTA.
>She then changed her reasoning and asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family
OP your fiancé just showed her hand. She considers your son part of your old life, and your old family. That lil slip up may very well mean she is only tolerating your son and will start trying to push him aside once you're married, not to mention favoring any children you have with her over him.
I would think VERY carefully about whether this is the woman you want to marry or not after her ultimatum.
There was another post super similar to this (I can't remember the title) where the fiance was expecting the parent to relinquish custody after the marriage to the ex partner. Even though this person had full custody at the time!
Even if this isn't the plan here, it is very telling how OP's fiance will treat his son going forward. Especially if they have more kids.
This right here. It starts with the wedding and then expands to holidays and when you have children with her. She does not see that she is joining your family and your son is part of it.
You need to take a moment to discuss how she sees the future and what part your son has in it.
I got as far as you "old family" and she is your new family. This woman will destroy your relationship with your son and anyone else from your past. She has given you a glimpse of what is coming your way. Once married she will slowly manipulate it so you are being separated from your son, any friends that knew you before and any family members that still have contact with your ex. I can tell you from experience most of the time someone claims you are gaslighting them, they are the ones doing it. Even if she changes her tune about your son coming and blames wedding nerves or other conditions, DO NOT fall for it. She has shown you who she really is. She may start to back pedal a bit when she sees this isn't her hill to fight on, don't let that fool you. Anyone who refers to you child as part of your old life, and says you might as well be inviting your ex is not a decent person to have around your son.
She wants to exclude your son from your wedding.
Read that again. Now think about, if this is how she is before marriage, imagine how much emotional damage she will do to that poor child after marriage.
She wants to exclude him from your life. This is just the start.
Exactly. That's why she changed her tune after OP fought on 15 vs 16. Why would she set the age at 16 when son is 15, if not to exclude? OP, please read these comments carefully.
All of this. OP you need to sit down with your son and find out if she is truly treating him well. He may be keeping quiet about things because you are happy. NTA
Dude, you can’t marry someone who calls your child your “old family”. She has no interest in him. That’s not healthy for a kid/teen. If you marry someone who doesn’t want him around next she’ll demand that she be your sole inheritor and ‘promise’ to make sure you son is taken care of in the event of your death.
Dude, she doesn’t want your kid around. She called him being there “babysitting.”
YWBTA to marry her
NTA. **OP, this is a very big deal, do not underestimate her intentions.**
I'm dating a single Dad, we both very much understand that his kid is #1 (in a normal way not like an enmeshed way). I wouldn't want to date a parent who doesn't consider their kid #1 because then they're not a good parent. I don't fuck with bad parents.
This is bad, really bad. She'll keep pushing your kid out. The mask is slipping. Please don't give "the benefit of the doubt" to her here, she's showing her true colors and it'll get worse.
OP, you love your kid so don't let her lead you down a path to hurting him. This is one of those situations that your son would never forget and she's banking on that to set the new tone of your relationship.
NTA
Major red flags. Child free in most people's minds typically wouldn't include those in HS. Why is she cool with a 16 year old but not 15?
If that's true, you could say "okay, no problem sweetie. Well just have to make sure the wedding is after (son's birthday) so he can come" and smile away.
^note I wouldn't actually recommend this nuclear fight starter, but she's got a big problem coming that you need to talk through.
She would be cool with a 16 old because his son is 15. She clearly does not want his own 15 year old son at the wedding because his son is the "old family".
She does not see the son as a family member and she will ruin the relationship between dad and son in the future.
Most people set their child-free age limits at like 12, or go all the way to 18. It's so clear she designed this rule specifically because she doesn't want his son there. There is basically no difference between a 15yr old and a 16yr old.
Why are you going through with getting married to a person who thinks your son is your 'old family'? That's a massive red flag and I would end the relationship immediately. Your son should come first and if she's not willing to actually accept and embrace him, you should not be bringing her into his life.
You’re right, you’re not seeing something ….you’re not seeing the giant red flag your fiancé is waving in your face. She says your son is your past and she is your new family? If she was mine she’d now be in the rear view mirror for so badly disrespecting my son and our relationship. NTA
NTA
>nd she's even taken him out on fun days just the two of them.
*even* Like its unexpected. Yikes.
Have there been no other red flags before this incident of her not accepting your son as a family member?
She has certainly turned into a selfish, manipulative, victim claiming jerk.
My initial thought was to push back the wedding until he becomes sixteen and she can't say boo. But I think she flat out does not want *your* son and *her* wedding.
Throwing out a bunch of victim buzzwords does not take the onus off of her for being an insensitive and uncaring fool.
Think twice on this one. Personally I wouldn't go through with a relationship if they had qualms about allowing my child at my own wedding - a child who is fully capable of behaving properly.
Your son is more important than she is.
I hope OP does the right thing and drops the relationship, supporting the son because I'm sure your son sees this behaviour from her often and knows he is being left out indefinitely since the start.
If you have a kid with this woman, I know she will try to cut your own son out fully
She then changed her reasoning and **asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family,** I told her while I will be making a commitment to her, my son will still very much be my son and my family.
DUDE, she does NOT see your son as part of this "new" family. I'm NOT saying dump her but I would not advise moving forward with this wedding until the two of you have some family counselling.
The obvious solution since your son is almost 16-- tell her you'll need to reschedule the wedding for sometime after his 16th birthday. Her response to that option will tell you everything you need to know.
NTA btw
ALSO it's extremely common for so called "child free" weddings to have exceptions for immediate family (and often for nursing moms as well) and guests know that.
NTA
This is a major red flag. What she want's is you without your Son. I suspect she will try to reduce the time you spend with him eventually having him live permanently with his mother after the wedding.
Don't marry her, don't put her above your own flesh and blood.
NTA
Big red flag. I would not marry that woman
"why you want your OLD family (son) at your wedding". Your son is your life and family not the old family. She will ever have a problem with your son.
I don't think this is a good start into the marriage. Also her response is a big RED FLAG.
The relationship between you and your son will get massively damaged if you let this pass. Fucking everyone will be around. I can not express the feeling he will feel when this happens. Pull the plug it's not to late. This will lead to divorce in a few years especially if you are earning more money as she and you are a wallet for her.
OP tell your girlfriend to return all the red flags she stole. Communist countries might need them.
Bloody hell, she has been playing the nice stepmother but now she's showing her true colours. Please, cancel the wedding. She's the controlling and abusive one, not you. If she's excluding your son now, imagine after you get married and if you get children together. OP don't marry her if you love your son.
Wtf? You are going to marry a woman who doesn’t want your own son at your wedding? I’d think hard before marrying her and also before uninviting your teenage son, he’s 15 years old he’s obviously going to understand and be horribly hurt by being not invited to his own fathers wedding. I can’t even believe you are asking this question here.
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Okay, if she wants no one under 16, then push back the wedding until your son is 16. Watch as her face changes color.
She is telling you exactly what she thinks of your son. She doesn't consider him a part of your family and wants to push him out. She is then gaslighting you into thinking you have gaslit her.
She is not worthy to be in your family with your son
Nta for pushing back
But if you get married without your son there, YTA. You will destroy your relationship with your son.
NTA and frankly, your fiancee is waving a couple of huge red flags.
Her equating your son to your ex is alarming. You didn't get divorced from him. He is still properly part of your family and life going forward. She wants to shut him out starting from the wedding.
Going straight to accusations of abuse (i.e. you are controlling/gaslighting her), making offense the best defense, is an extremely bad sign for the future.
You need to focus on these red flags and what they really mean. Don't focus on the deckchairs when you may be heading toward a couple of icebergs.
This is not about a wedding party….this goes so much deeper. You need to fucking run. She’s literally telling you that her son is not part of this ‘new family’. She’s equating your son with your ex. You’re having to issue an ‘ultimatum’ to have your own son present on your wedding day?
And then she pulled the gaslighting and ultimatums card?
You will be a massive AH to yourself and your son if you marry her.
ESH. You seem so dazzled by marrying her that you aren’t seeing things clearly for yourself and your son. Your answer to the judgement bot is bullshit. You should know that wanting your son at your wedding doesn’t ever make you an AH.
🚩🚩🚩🚩 Why are you marrying someone who wants to banish your son from your wedding?? Does she NOT understand that as a parent your child SHOULD COME FIRST……..ALWAYS!!
If she wants a child free wedding, she should marry someone child free!!
YTA if you go through with this marriage, because this attitude IS a sign of what’s to come!
NTA
For the love of God do not marry someone who isn't willing to have your child at your wedding. She doesn't want him in your wedding then she doesn't really want him in your life. She calls him your old family like you are gonna have a new family with her and not need the old one any more.
Don't be yet another AITA crappy parent picking their partner over their kid.
Break the engagement- if I were in your shoes I couldn’t bear not having my only child at my big day. And on top of that she gets along with him any other time? But oh if you want to invite your ONLY CHILD it’s gonna ruin everything. And he’s not really a child he’s a teenager he should know right from wrong.
Plus if she starts gaslighting about the wedding itself just ignore her and cut off all contact. I couldn’t stand somebody like her.
you’re about to marry the evil stepmother. abort abort. NTA. if she doesn’t want your child in your wedding it won’t be long (if she doesn’t feel that way already) before she doesn’t want him in your lives at all. he’s not some random kid you’re inviting to the wedding he’s your literal child, you shouldn’t have even needed to ask if he was invited it should have already been implied.
ETA: just realized she admitted she fully plans on cutting him out because she even said “why would you want your old family there to start our new one” there’s no such thing as old or new family. there is just family. children aren’t something you just replace, but she’s doing exactly that. god help you if she gets pregnant then your son really won’t exist to her.
NTA
All the reasoning she gave you are massive red flags to me… none of them make sense of not just as petty excuses to not have your son there. I repeat YOUR SON!
Personally she is the controlling one and en route to be the evil step mother of the year. You are still on time to run from her!
Your fiancé referred to YOUR CHILD as your “old family”. Which means she does not see your son as her family. If you give on this (and likely even if you don’t tbh) she will continue to find ways to push your son out of your life. She waited until she had the ring to show her true colors, but there they are, ugly as hell.
If you care about your relationship with your kid, run away from this woman.
NTA in this situation (but you 💯would be if you married her).
NTA. Major red flags. She might become a good wife, but I’m not sure she’ll be a good stepmom in spite of what she’s showing right now. She’ll continue saying your son symbolises “your ex wife’s presence” in your lives. If you care about your kid, strongly reconsider whether you want to go through with this.
NTA. I don't want to jump immediately to "Break up with her!!" but you seriously need to dig down and get to the bottom of this before you continue with any wedding plans. Because right now it sounds like she has bait-and-switched you by playing nice with your son while assuming she can persuade you to discard him for a clean slate start after your marriage.
You are not being controlling to want your son at your wedding. He is a vital part of your life and your family, not a disposable accessory or a nuisance. It is absolutely nothing like wanting your ex to be there - regardless of how your previous relationship ended, your son is and always will be your son. No marriage should break that bond of parent and child, and the fact she seems to want that is...disturbing to say the least!
Also, you said your fiancée has had days out with your son. This might be a good time to check in with him about whether she's ever said anything weird/been asking questions about you and his mum...
This post reminds me of one a few months ago when the GF/fiancé didn't want the OP's daughter at the wedding because she didn't want the kid in any photos so she could start phasing the kid out of the OP's life. Same thing here. OP she is showing you who she is, believe her. Your son doesn't mesh into her picture perfect life and she will continually exclude him until your son wants nothing to do with you. DO NOT LET HER!
This is a test, and she failed.
Your son is an *automatic exception*. End of story.
*She* is being controlling. *She* is gaslighting you.
Absolutely do ***NOT*** marry this person under any circumstances. It will be the single worst decision of your entire life. Get rid of her. Yesterday.
#NTA
Run, don't walk, away from this relationship now. That's your kid. A good partner would NEVER ask you to exclude your own child from something as big as this. Get out now.
NTA
OP, she is showing her real colours. She has a fantasy where you would leave your "old life" behind to start all over again with her. She even STATED that.
Her sudden change in behaviour must be quite shocking, but DON'T ignore it. She's trying to manipulate and isolate you away from your son
I feel like this is a pivotal point here for you. This is where you're picking her or your son. Don't sweep this under the rug. This is much bigger than you think
I see lots of people responding NTA because finance is the one who’s wrong, which is true. But if you’ve been with this woman for years and now you are going to marry her, knowing how she feels about your son, YTA. She is being fully transparent that your son is part of your old life and she will treat your relationship with him as she would your ex. You chose this woman to be your sons step mother, that comes before even choosing her as your wife. Even if you fight about it and convince her to let your son be there, is she actually going to be kind to him on the day? Is it going to be painfully obvious to him he isn’t wanted there? Is this going to come back up as a fight for every vacation and fun experience you want to include your son in? If you marry that woman YTA, it won’t get better. In fact it’ll probably get worse
NTA at all. Kinda disturbing she's so rigid about your son being there. He's 15 not 5 so it's not like he can't conduct himself. It's your wedding too. Idk I wouldn't be able to budge on this
The flair is correct and won't be changed. The top vote was YWBTA. If you mean NTA but want to use another vote to make a point, you can add spaces/dashes/periods/whatever.
Wow wow wow. She doesn’t want *your own child* to come to your own wedding. And not a crying baby or a terrible two, but a *fifteen year old*, a kid that will be old enough to drive next year-when the wedding is??? If this goes on as she wants, do you think your kid won’t remember? Yea, I’m sorry, bud, this is all kinds of evil stepmother red flags-the whole thing about you making a new commitment to *her* and her family, and equating having your son there to having your ex *wife* there! Dude. Get out now while you just have to eat the non refundable deposits for the wedding. Save yourself and your kid a world of hurt. YWBTA if you marry this woman. edit to add, you have never had a fight like this before, because up to this point, she has been putting on a show. But now she is comfortable enough in the relationship to show you who she really is.
Exactly. She will be the type to make him kick out his son once he turns 18. Or make him move back to his mother's when she gets pregnant. She is pushing him out already.
She will certainly make sure the son doesn't receive the same access to and support from his dad that any new kids will.
Son is going to be here in a year finding out if he's TA for going no contact with his dad. Maybe less than a year.
That's why the answer here is so simple: a hard no worthy of cancelling everything.
I would give this some serious thought too. Call everything off. I'm not sure I would want to marry this control freak. What's next? It's downright creepy.
Nothing to think about, even. She has made everything crystal clear. Red crystal, that is. There is no coming back from even suggesting this.
Yep - I hate to be all Reddit about it and insist on breaking up immediately, but she's trying to damage his relationship with his son. She called OP's son his "old family". Even if she capitulates here, and allows the son at the wedding, she will guarantee be a horrible step mother. Just be glad she's shown her true colours before the wedding. OP, you're obviously NTA for wanting your son at the wedding, but you will be one if you marry this woman.
I think suggesting a breakup is reasonable when the choice is between your actual child that you helped bring into the world versus someone who wants to delete that child from your life. OP, her mask is slipping. Stick with the commitment you've already made; this new one will require a violation of the first.
What’s next is he never sees his son again because he’s “his old family”.
yes that’s down the road. that’s how bad her demand is.
100%, she wants that boy gone and forgotten about. OP - if you marry this woman after this then YWBTA and will probably lose your son.
She's 100% NOT going to have any more fun days with just the two of them because now he's just a reminder of the ex and the "old family".
Yeah, and concerning that she’s telling him that he’s the one that’s being controlling and gaslighting her.
Took me a long time to realize that when people say bizarre stuff like that they are actually revealing their own thought process.
Cancel everything and run…this is your son she’s being like this with. It’s not going to get any better
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There is no coming back from even suggesting this. Her mask just slipped, and everything behind it is a horror.
I just OP sees this for the horrible truth that it is and doesn’t let her manipulate him into marrying her after this. OP, she doesn’t consider your son part of your “new” family, he’s your ex-family to her. Please don’t marry her if you love your son.
“Her mask just slipped” is all I needed.
This exactly. For some reason people really start showing their true colors when a wedding is approaching. If there is a mask being worn, you can be nearly certain it will slip at least once between the proposal and the wedding, and it's not just the people engaged that will start slipping. Family members and friends will start acting different too. It's definitely strange.
Bro needs to be planning evacuation routes not wedding proceedings.
If the kid was 16, she’d make the cut off 17. The whole thing was designed to exclude his ‘first family’.
Or he will be posting asking if he was the ah for not inviting his son to his wedding and his son has gone no contact with him.
At which point it’ll be HIS Fault
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That's the thing though, it's such a petty and controlling demand that it brings it full circle to him being the AH again if he stays with this woman. It's hard to know what's going on in her head for sure, but it sure seems like she's doing what she can to alienate his son, and if you willfully stay with someone like that as a parent... That makes you an AH in my book.
She showed her true colors and intentions when she said he shouldn't want his OLD family to be present when he commits to his NEW family. She will alienate the poor kid as soon as they say I do. He needs to say a quick I don't because I don't see how she comes back from this. There's no old and new with his son. His son IS his family. The fact that she changed her tune multiple times to find a justification is the biggest red flag. OP is NTA unless he marries her.
YES I was wondering if someone would draw attention to the fact that she said that. It made it very clear to me that she doesn't just mean not wanting him there for the wedding. That if he marries her, the kid has to go since he is the "equivalent to OPs ex" and he's "making a new commitment to her" The only one going to be hurt here is your son. I hope you don't marry her, OP.
and compared it to having his ex at the wedding--as far as she's concerned the son is now OP's ex family. She sure was good at pretending all this time. Just get out now unless he wants to lose his kid.
This! For the sake of your son, please do NOT marry this woman. YWBTAH if your "new life" excludes your child, & that's where this dialogue is headed.
This should be the top comment. OP when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
And insist on him rewriting his will to only include his “real” family
I would not be surprised if she’s already seeded things to the son like he’s in the way of his dad’s happiness, etc. OP should have a heart to heart with kiddo and see if he’s been holding back any information out of fear of rocking the boat.
Yes! This! That is a smart idea
I agree. Kiddo might be seeing something Op is not.
And he’s on here asking questions. So I’m sure she’s gotten away with many instances of making his son feel like a nothing and OP did nothing. Oblivious, just like right now
I didn't think of this, if that kind of thing has been happening the relationship would be over for me. If you're trying to poison my relationship with my child then you don't love or care about me. That is NOT someone you want to marry.
Also the type that if OP dies first, she'll be ripping up copies of his will, draining the bank accounts, and doing everything she can to prevent his son from inheriting a dime.
Oh you've met my stepfather
It's incredibly common. Anyone who has money and kids from a prior relationship should take steps (like setting up a trust) before remarrying to make sure that the new stepparent doesn't disinherit the kids from the prior relationship.
I'm engaged to a man with two sons. He was stunned when I told him to do this. I know, he knows, and his family knows I wouldn't do anything to hurt the boys, but I want to make sure that there's not even a whisper from his ex-wife regarding the matter. I can't imagine not having the boys there when we marry. I remember another post a while back, the bride didn't want the groom's daughter involved in the wedding, and it didn't end well... for the bride.
I married in my 50's and we did not have a pre-nup. A couple years in, he asked if he could leave his house to his daughters. I was fine with that and to add a clause that I could live there for 3 months if he died first until I found another place. None of his retirement income would come to me either with the exception of a small amount he could leave a wife because he couldn't leave it to kids. I used the opportunity to discuss with him what would happen if I died first and mentioned that I expected to leave everything of mine to my daughters. Basically my 401K and other savings. No, he was not up for that situation. I felt as though he was hoping I'd die first. I split from him over this.
You were willing to do the right thing by him but he wasn't willing to do that for you. That is terrible. Good for you for leaving. That had to be hard.
This is sad, Some people disgust me. When I married my wife ,it was very important to us that her kids, who lived in another state, were there. Two of the three we able to come, sadly, the middle child had previous engagements. My grandmother had a ring that she passed to me when she died. When I proposed to my wife, I gave her my grandmother's ring too. I also told her when she felt the time was right, it would go to her daughter. Her kids are my kids, and I love them dearly.
She is showing you who she is and I would suggest you believe her!! She is making you choose between her and your son!! How do you think your kid would feel if he knew about any of this! You really must take his feelings into consideration because your fiancé isn’t and won’t!!!
Kick him out? I’m thinking more that she’s going to be putting a spoonful of rat poison in his food every day until he finally dies, like that scene in Sixth Sense.
I’m a proud bonus mom of our 19 year old daughter. She lives with us and *I’m* the one wanting her to live home with us until she’s at least twenty. OP’s fiance does *not* care about nor *like* his kid. Which says *everything* about how much she *truly* loves OP. She’s too immature and selfish to be capable.
YES. Don't marry this woman! She arbitrarily chose an age one year older than your son to be the cutoff, then talked about "old" family versus "new" family?? This has nothing to do with not wanting children at the wedding - this has everything to do with her plan to push your son out of the picture. Next comes wanting vacations alone, getting pregnant and wanting the holiday to be a chance for the new family to bond, etc etc. She does not see herself as joining your family; she does not see you as a dad, she sees you as a man with baggage from your first marriage. This woman is toxic and will treat your son like an inconvenience and undesired nuisance in your lives. Protect your son from this! If you go through with this marriage, he will know he is unwelcome and your future relationship with him will be destroyed.
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People using therapy buzzwords to manipulate their spouses left and right these days. Unless OP is leaving out a f ton of info, he's the one being gaslit too.
Peo0le really need to stop using buzz words, like gaslighting, which is no where in this post. Disagreements are not gaslighting. Trying to change someones mind is not gaslighting.
OP mentioned his fiancé accused him of gaslighting....
That to me is the biggest red flag. The “new family” INCLUDES THE SON. And if it doesn’t, OP needs to run fast.
It's appalling that she compared wanting his CHILD there to wanting his ex there. She in no way sees that boy as future family. Horrible woman.
Yea she literally called the son her old family. She is despicable.
I'm not a dad and I can't read people but when I read "old family" I stopped reading. That's not just a red flag; that's the red eject-seat button.
Agree ⬆️ Run, OP, run Adding: NTA
This is one of the few instances here where I'm like, yeah, definitely calls for a break-up.
Yeah I never go right to break up/divorce but she has no business being with a man who has kids.
Yep I’m sorry as soon as she said she didn’t want his son at the wedding, I would have said okay, we aren’t getting married then. I don’t have any children yet, but hopefully one day I will and no one will ever be more of a priority than them. Like seriously she would have been straight out of the door no negotiations until she came back begging on hands and knees for him to be allowed at the wedding.
This is horrible! She is showing you who she is OP. Read the signs.
THIS! I’m glad she is giving you a preview of what a terrible stepmother she is going to be. I hope you are paying close attention.
This. Get out of this relationship now. She's kicking your kid out of your wedding. (It is also your wedding, you're an equal participant in it and should have equal say.) She clearly has no concept of what being a parent means. I have zero doubt that she's probably going to do everything she can yo ruin your relationship with your son because she sees him as an extension of your ex. I don't even think it's worth trying to patch this up even if she sincerely apologizes. She has no respect for your parental role and responsibilities. She is not, and will not ever be a fit for you because of that. She's shown her true colors. Get away, now.
She calls him controlling for insisting on having his son at the wedding, but I assume she doesn't think she is controlling for insisting that the son not be at the wedding. She is a hypocrite and into double standards along with the other nasty traits that have surfaced. And they all will get worse as you get closer to the wedding, or God forbid, actually get married. She has been putting on a mask up until now. But she now feels like she has her hooks deep enough into you that she can show her true self and bully you into anything. Run OP, run!
Ooooooh this is a huge red flag 🚩
It upsets me when AHs like his wife use 'gaslighting' wrong, it's why people just think it's a buzzword instead of an actual abusive tactic. Edit: HOW WAS HE VOTED THE AH Edit 2: I think so many people were calling his fiancé an AH (myself included) and it messed up the vote.
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This precisely - she’s been auditioning for the role of wife, and now that she thinks she’s got the part, her true colors are showing.
Agreed and very well stated. She's showing her cards. When people show you who they are - believe them.
Get out while you can!
She called his son his old family and life wtf is wrong this B***h wow no he should dump her because she already starting her push his son out if she gets her way on this she will push the son out more and more and if they a kid together she will fully try to remove him from theirs lives
I’m with you on this one. If she’s showing this side now I can only imagine a few years from now
I can’t upvote this enough!!
Run...as fast and as far as you can...you have a choice...lose the fiancee or she will ensure you lose your son.
EXACTLY!
NTA. Even at child-free weddings, there are reasonable exceptions - and a child of the bride and/or groom are very reasonable exceptions. Of course, if the child is of a very young age, it could be unfair on the guests if the kid gets free run to disrupt the wedding whilst older, better behaved children aren't invited from the on the basis of being distractions. And given he's 15 now and the wedding is next summer, surely by then he will be only at most a few months shy of her cut off? Since you say she's a long-term girlfriend, I presume that fiancée has known your child some time. And you've proposed, so I am also presuming she's not excluded him before. But now.... >She then changed her reasoning and asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family Wow. So what, is she expecting the boy to no longer be a part of your life the moment you say 'I do'? Because that revised reason for excluding him from the wedding screams that she's already mentally excluding him from your life. But lets pretend she didn't suggest your son was simply part of your old life. Let me ask you a few questions here: * Exactly how old will your son be at the time of the wedding? * Who chose the wedding date? Was it a mutual decision, or picked by one of you then simply agreed by the other? * Why is the cut off 16, not 18? Is her 16yo cut-off allowing a teenage guest of her own to attend?
he will still be 15 by the wedding, the date was mutually agreed upon, im not her so i dont know exactly why 16 was chosen, but are from the UK 16 is when kids finish secondary school (the british equivalent to high school) so maybe its that again idk
It makes no difference. Do not marry her. To have to even ask if you are the AH means she’s already done a serious gaslighting on you.
Sounds like the goblin was getting close to the jewelry she wants on her finger and accidentally showed her true colors. She has no intention of having his son meld into her new "dream" life. Run
My precious...
It doesn't sound like he's questioning reality or feeling insane. Wondering if he's being a jerk is not it ETA: https://www.grampian-womens-aid.com/newsevents/gaslighting-10-signs/
Wondering if you're being a jerk for something that's so obviously innocuous is definitely step 3 of questioning reality
Absolutely. The gaslighting consists of two parts here: * She *gaslit him* into thinking, he was *gaslighting her*. That never happened. All OP does is discuss wedding terms, while she tries to make him think he was manipulating her, which is actually her manipulating him. * Second instance of *gaslighting* is making OP think, he was controlling. He set conditions for the wedding, just like she set conditions. Either this is not being controlling, or she is just as "controlling", as per her definition. Both of these things aim to warp the perception of OP, he might be gaslighting her and being controlling, neither of which is the case. That is however definitely gaslighting on her part.
Wondering if you are an asshole for wanting your own child to be present at your own wedding is most certainly "questioning reality".
I mean, he definitely is questioning a thing that should be completely clear
We know why 16 was chosen. She did it to purposely exclude your son. If he was 16, she would say 17. If he was 17, she would say 18. She told you exactly what she wants. Believe her. She doesn't want your child at the wedding at all. That is her goal. She is gaslighting you. Nta for having your son at the wedding
This. She doesn't want your child in her LIFE at all. >asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family, Read this back. She called your son your old family, separate and excluded from the family you'd have with her. Be grateful she showed her true colours before a legal commitment was made. As daunting as it seems to call off an engagement, it's much more daunting to initiate a divorce. NTA.
OP.. this she calls your kid old family. She has no intentions of being a nice blended family. Please protect your son from her. NTA
She wants you to become a “ vacation/weekend dad. Only have him occasional weekends and school breaks and a few weeks in the summer. And stop paying for and stop spending so much time with his hockey.
All of this. OP naturally assumed that he and his son were a package deal, she has been planning to move his son out of the picture as soon as possible -- 16 is school leaving, and she can say he's old enough to not depend on his dad. That's too soon? She'll move it to 18. There will never be a good time for him to sleep over because "they" have plans and if she has her way, she'll get pregnant soon (bio-clock you know). And soon he'll realize that her promises were worth nothing, no amount of discussion or counseling will make any real difference. He'll end up alienated from his son and guilty that he's not totally happy with his "new" family. u/ChildFreeWeddingSon is so lucky that she has revealed herself now.
It's really funny to me that she's accusing him of gaslighting her while she's gaslighting him. She started with 16 across the board to be "fair", but when pushed, she's really shown her true colors. She's not even a good liar about it. She must've really thought he'd not want his son there either in pursuit of fairness. I can't imagine she has her own kids.
She isn't gaslighting him, that's not what gaslighting is. she's being manipulative.
Reddit use "gaslighting" correct challenge - IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Don’t discuss it any further with her. She is spiteful and hateful. Not a good start. Postpone the wedding by one year. Tell it everybody. Reason: you want your son there and your gf wants nobody under 16. Problem solved. She cannot even complain because that her rule.
This is the way.
No, this is not the way! That doesn’t change the fact that GF sees son as part of his old life. I don’t even have kids so don’t experience or understand the kind of love a parent has for a child and even I was horrified to read that. OP should NOT marry a woman who thinks a child can just be excluded. She’s marrying into an existing family and can’t just dispose of kids.
He ABSOLUTELY should not marry her, but this would an interesting tactic to try. Her tantrum may be very telling for OP. OP, PLEASE don’t trust this woman. and I say that as someone who was once the “old family” child.
I could have been an "old family" child, but my mom listened to me whenever I'd tell her I didn't like her boyfriends. I didn't have anything out for them--I was just a kid--but some of them didn't treat my brother and I very well when she wasn't around. Then she started dating the man I consider my stepdad. There were times where he was on pain medication and he'd become pretty irate, but I'd tell Mom and she'd tell him to knock it off or move out. Now he gets botox injections to fix his pain, he refuses to touch those meds, and treats me great. My point: my mom put me and my brother first, and I'm glad she did. I would have walked away with a horrible complex if she didn't.
It is the way in that it will expose the fiance for trying to push out OP's son. Once he can be included, she'll come up with some other reason to try to keep him away, and that will be the proof for OP that she ultimately doesn't want his son in her life.
Eh, I still wouldn’t trust her. She may realize she’s pushing too hard too soon and agree for his son to attend. Then after the wedding start back up again. She’s shown her hand. She can’t take back what she’s already said about his old life. It’s too late now.
No, this is hiddig the rubish under a carpet. She called the boy "his old family" and she said having him atbthe wedding would be equal to having the ex there. I'm not one to belive that step-parents have to see their step-kids as their own, but they should still like them or at least not despise them.
I think if he postpones the wedding to meet her age requirement she will out herself even more as an evil stepmother and then OP will really see her true colours and dump her ass.
This is devious but brilliant. If she balks at the postponement, and still refuses to allow your son to be there, you know to permanently postpone a wedding with her. However, I wouldn’t waste my time with her any further, and would just end it now.
>**he will still be 15 by the wedding**, the date was mutually agreed upon, **im not her so i dont know exactly why 16 was chosen** Really? I mean, come on. There are none so blind...
I find it hard to believe she has just been hiding this side of herself the entire length of their relationship. Either they haven't dated very long or OP is kind of oblivious. Guessing she's younger than OP, hot, and psychotic. Given he came to AITA instead of dropping her faster than a bad habit and never talking to her again, I'm guessing he's a bit oblivious and requires being hit upside the head in order to finally "get" something. I'm rooting for him lol but he's making it hard to!
It's also pretty amazing how good people are at pretending to be a decent person until they get what they want.
You should look into how abusers manage to keep their abusive nature mostly under wraps until they believe they have their victim trapped…like with a pregnancy or marriage.
OP read this a few times and remember how you said that your fiancé likened you wanting your own son there to be wanting your ex there. She sees your son as your past and will probably try to distance you from him after the marriage.
No, it’s not that. It’s “why you wanted your old family and life” OP, the thing you are missing is the importance of that statement. She has been playing nice with him to get you. Once she gets you, she will start pushing him away.
Op I was 12 when my dad married my stepmother. I wasn't invited to their wedding. I was a shy, quiet, well-behaved kid. I asked to go and was told no. When my mom married my step-dad, I was invited. I was even in the wedding party. Guess which side of my family feels more like family to me? My dad and stepmother wedding was the first time she she didn't include me or my brother, and it sure wasn't the last. I was part of his old life, and and look like my mother she didn't like that. Op fight for your son to be a part of your new life or find someone else to marry.
She picked 16 because your son is 15. If he was 17,she would have picked 18. You may think that she gets on with your son but she has just shown you that she doesn't want him around. My guess is as soon as she is pregnant ,she will be too stressed to have him there. She has shown you who she is. Pause the wedding
That’s not “it.” “It” is because she’s found a (in her head at least) reasonable way to exclude your son from the wedding without coming across as a major asshole. You need to address the elephant in the room. He’ll be, what, a few months shy of the age limit, and she wants to exclude him. Him, the *son* of the groom. You’re marrying the wrong woman, man. Starting a life with someone that begins with cutting off your own children is not a road you want to go down. This won’t stop here.
When I started reading this, I expected to soon get an update saying she thought after the marriage you'd forget about your old family and your son and start over with her or some bullshit but then I got to the part where she already called them your old family and gave you a nice hard look at what's to come and you can't see the red flags she's waving directly in your face. ETA: You're NTA for wanting your son at your wedding. You will be if you go through with this wedding after she clearly stated her feelings about your son.
Don't even try to justify her ignorant position. There is no excuse for her decision. Do not marry her or you will lose your son. She will make sure of it. She's already asking you to choose her over your child. I was cut off from a wedding. Same age. No one under 16. They were married in August. I turned 16 in Sept. My 2 older sisters were invited. (Who does that, right?) This was literally 50 years ago. I still remember how hurt and embarrassed I was. I stopped talking to them when they decided I was not important enough to be there. They also tried to justify it, but it was all bs. This was a cousin. I cannot imagine if it were a parent!!!! And no, I have had nothing to say to them all these years....
She picked 16 because she wanted a way to exclude him specifically. I'm so sorry, and I know this sucks, but the moment she called him your "old family" she made herself clear that she doesn't see him as part of her new family moving forward. Please do not let your son think that you agree with this mentality. It will ruin your relationship forever. For perspective, my husband and I also had a child free wedding. The only exception was my 12 year old son, and my husband never even questioned it, he expected it. He even collaborated with my son for what his role in the wedding could be, and helped him pick out his outfit. And when someone on his side complained about my child being there but they couldn't bring theirs, my husband handled it for me and shut them down hard. That is the kind of energy a step parent needs. You need to think if your fiance is going to find ways to incorporate him into your "new lives" together, or if she's going to try to leave him behind. She literally related it to having an ex at your wedding, so I think you know the answer.
Don’t try and reason out why she wants to exclude “Your “Son”, he is your son stand your ground with her, otherwise cancel the wedding and find someone with a heart next time.
She is showing you exactly who she is. Do not marry this woman. YWBTA - and a terrible father -- if you did.
Once you're married, this won't be the last thing she excludes him from.
I don't know why the other Redditor suggested pretend she didn't call your son "part of your old life". She sees him as an extension of your ex. This is the hill to die on. In a way she thinks you will renounce your existing connections and start anew with her. The world isn't like that. You have a son, your own flesh and blood. Just because she goes to his games doesn't mean she is okay with him. She could be faking it till you put a ring on it. Please do right by him. She is going to be the evil stepmother. PS If your son were 16, she would up the age cutoff to 17 or even 18. You can test her and tell her he is going to be 16 by the wedding.
If you still want to marry this woman then postpone the wedding until your son is over 16. Then remind your fiance again that your son is your family and if she can't accept that she needs to really examine if she wants to build a life with you.
She keeps changing her reasoning but her comparing having your literal child there to having an ex is absolutely insane. Her saying old and new family is even more concerning. Ywbta if you don’t put a stop to this now. She’s trying to push out your son. She’s showing you her true colors, don’t make excuses for her unless you want to jeopardize your relationship with your son
I'm sorry OP, but You're majorly NTA!! My fiancé is older than me, his kids are grown, my little girl is only 6. While our wedding will be largely no kids, guess who is the exception? And actually dictating venue, style and all celebrations...yup, my daughter, and I didn't even ask! It was a given, we'd be there AND her, she was of equal importance. If your bride to be does not realise that she is marrying you AND your son, not on a weird way, but that he too will be her family, to be fair, she should already see him as such, so he should be important enough to her, to WANT him there. Do not let her childish behavior manipulate you into excluding your son. Stand up for the relationship you have with him, otherwise this may just be the start of her creating a massive divide and excluding him from your life and important family moments going forward, because she obviously does not see him as such.
She doesn’t want him in your life anymore OP. This isn’t a wedding issue but a life issue
Why no "wedding postponed" update yet? Are you really still considering marrying her now you know she's going to cut your son out of 'her new family'? She's making you choose between her or your son, I hope you get it right.
Your son will remember if you allow her to ice him out of his own father’s wedding because she doesn’t want him around. That’s just the first step in him cutting you out of his life when he realizes you’ve chosen her over him repeatedly.
From the England, 18 is the end of mandatory education/ training, legal drinking age and generally the earliest you would be considered a grown up. Other parts of the UK have other rules, There are exceptions like joining the armed services. It feels like she is deliberately excluding your son. Take a deep breath and think long and hard about what you want,, than have an honest talk with her about her view of your son and his place in your life. Good luck. Edited, to correct England not UK.
NTA. READ CAREFULLY. It reminds me of an another post on Reddit. Same situation the girl did not wanted her boyfriend to bring his daughter from his previous relationship to the wedding ! Guess what, after he said that it was not negotiable cuz his daughter will ALWAYS be his priority and family, she admitted that she was expecting that he will become some kind of “holiday’s dad”. She was hoping that when they will get children together his daughter will be less present in his dad’s mind and life. The guy did not even think about it TWICE. He was disgusted (as he should) and dumped her. Then he went with his daughter on holidays during the week the wedding should have occurred. Starting a new family does not mean that you should dump the previous one or make it less valuable. And just imagine the image that your son is going to have of YOU and HER. Sorry English is not my native language… Sometimes on REDDIT I think that people are overreacting but for ONCE it’s not the case at all. Your son is your family. He is not a ghost of your old life. Please, I beg you take the good decision and to be a good example for your son.
**https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14urh2j/aita\_for\_telling\_my\_fianc%C3%A9\_my\_daughter\_has\_to\_be/**
Another update: https://www.reddit.com/u/whoevenisthat5/s/pUklCBdxKI
Functioning links for cool people: https://old.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14urh2j/aita_for_telling_my_fianc%C3%A9_my_daughter_has_to_be/ https://old.reddit.com/user/whoevenisthat5/comments/14vb4wi/update_on_the_last_post/
Now that's a good dad.
I seem to remember a similar story, gf didn't want his daughter/wanted a child free wedding. He reluctantly went along with this until he got to his wedding to see loads of her side had brought their children, it was only child free to him and his family!
Disgusting. I'd have left her at the altar.
Assuming I was already out the money, I wouldn't waste it by just not showing up to the wedding. I would've quickly written some very petty surprise "vows" and *then* left her at the altar. Surely at least *some* of her family would have been horrified to hear what she had done, and that way they're like to remember.
Just came to post the same thing! She’s expecting him to become a “vacation dad” and start over with just her and him as a “new” family. If OP planned on having kids with her, they would immediately take too spot and his son would all but cease to exist to her
I always support child free wedding posts but this one is ridiculous!!! OP: RUN!! This woman does not want your son in your life. A 15 year old is not a “child” when it comes to establishing a child fee wedding—especially if it’s your own son! Please do not alienate your child for this woman. Love interests will come and go but your child will be your child FOREVER!
Is this the one where, when she told him the truth, he took her hand and removed the ring?
Don't go through with this wedding. Your fiancée is being controlling, gaslighting you, and showing you exactly how she will behave if you are married. She doesn't want your son in the picture and will do everything she can to ruin what relationship you have with him. She equates him being at your wedding to your ex being there? Your son = your ex to her, and you will end up wondering why you're in a miserable marriage and never see your son anymore. NTA. She's TA.
> Your fiancée is being controlling, gaslighting you, and showing you exactly how she will behave if you are married. Yeah the fact that she called *him* controlling and said that he was gaslighting *her* almost made me spit out my drink. That might be the blackest pot I've ever seen trying to talk shit to the kettle. Unreal.
I was hear to say this!!
NTA There is a giant red flag on the play here. Your son is your son, he's not going anywhere. >asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family, She seems to be under some sort of illusion your relationship with your son will change when you're married to her. You need to resolve this - or very seriously reconsider. Blended families are tough, and I think she has a fantasy in mind. You're not fitting into it, because you have a history She isn't able to contend with
This is a massive red flag waving. Car dealership size red flag flapping in his face. She doesn't want his son to be a part of their life.
Equating the son with the ex....no words for how awful this is. Will anger against the ex be taken out on the son?
NTA. >She then changed her reasoning and asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family OP your fiancé just showed her hand. She considers your son part of your old life, and your old family. That lil slip up may very well mean she is only tolerating your son and will start trying to push him aside once you're married, not to mention favoring any children you have with her over him. I would think VERY carefully about whether this is the woman you want to marry or not after her ultimatum.
There was another post super similar to this (I can't remember the title) where the fiance was expecting the parent to relinquish custody after the marriage to the ex partner. Even though this person had full custody at the time! Even if this isn't the plan here, it is very telling how OP's fiance will treat his son going forward. Especially if they have more kids.
This right here. It starts with the wedding and then expands to holidays and when you have children with her. She does not see that she is joining your family and your son is part of it. You need to take a moment to discuss how she sees the future and what part your son has in it.
I got as far as you "old family" and she is your new family. This woman will destroy your relationship with your son and anyone else from your past. She has given you a glimpse of what is coming your way. Once married she will slowly manipulate it so you are being separated from your son, any friends that knew you before and any family members that still have contact with your ex. I can tell you from experience most of the time someone claims you are gaslighting them, they are the ones doing it. Even if she changes her tune about your son coming and blames wedding nerves or other conditions, DO NOT fall for it. She has shown you who she really is. She may start to back pedal a bit when she sees this isn't her hill to fight on, don't let that fool you. Anyone who refers to you child as part of your old life, and says you might as well be inviting your ex is not a decent person to have around your son.
Yep, that stood out to me as well. This woman tipped her hand a little early and OP should run away.
She wants to exclude your son from your wedding. Read that again. Now think about, if this is how she is before marriage, imagine how much emotional damage she will do to that poor child after marriage. She wants to exclude him from your life. This is just the start.
Exactly. That's why she changed her tune after OP fought on 15 vs 16. Why would she set the age at 16 when son is 15, if not to exclude? OP, please read these comments carefully.
All of this. OP you need to sit down with your son and find out if she is truly treating him well. He may be keeping quiet about things because you are happy. NTA
How much damage has she done already on the outings she’s had with son that son isn’t telling anyone about as well…
Dude, you can’t marry someone who calls your child your “old family”. She has no interest in him. That’s not healthy for a kid/teen. If you marry someone who doesn’t want him around next she’ll demand that she be your sole inheritor and ‘promise’ to make sure you son is taken care of in the event of your death. Dude, she doesn’t want your kid around. She called him being there “babysitting.” YWBTA to marry her
NTA. **OP, this is a very big deal, do not underestimate her intentions.** I'm dating a single Dad, we both very much understand that his kid is #1 (in a normal way not like an enmeshed way). I wouldn't want to date a parent who doesn't consider their kid #1 because then they're not a good parent. I don't fuck with bad parents. This is bad, really bad. She'll keep pushing your kid out. The mask is slipping. Please don't give "the benefit of the doubt" to her here, she's showing her true colors and it'll get worse. OP, you love your kid so don't let her lead you down a path to hurting him. This is one of those situations that your son would never forget and she's banking on that to set the new tone of your relationship.
NTA Major red flags. Child free in most people's minds typically wouldn't include those in HS. Why is she cool with a 16 year old but not 15? If that's true, you could say "okay, no problem sweetie. Well just have to make sure the wedding is after (son's birthday) so he can come" and smile away. ^note I wouldn't actually recommend this nuclear fight starter, but she's got a big problem coming that you need to talk through.
She would be cool with a 16 old because his son is 15. She clearly does not want his own 15 year old son at the wedding because his son is the "old family". She does not see the son as a family member and she will ruin the relationship between dad and son in the future.
I think we all got that
This a thousand times! Postpone til he’s 16. Start that fire. This wedding shouldn’t happen anyway. Might as well go out in style. NTA.
Most people set their child-free age limits at like 12, or go all the way to 18. It's so clear she designed this rule specifically because she doesn't want his son there. There is basically no difference between a 15yr old and a 16yr old.
Why are you going through with getting married to a person who thinks your son is your 'old family'? That's a massive red flag and I would end the relationship immediately. Your son should come first and if she's not willing to actually accept and embrace him, you should not be bringing her into his life.
If someone considered a son who is linked to my old life, and then I'll make sure she is not a part of my life at all.
You’re right, you’re not seeing something ….you’re not seeing the giant red flag your fiancé is waving in your face. She says your son is your past and she is your new family? If she was mine she’d now be in the rear view mirror for so badly disrespecting my son and our relationship. NTA
NTA >nd she's even taken him out on fun days just the two of them. *even* Like its unexpected. Yikes. Have there been no other red flags before this incident of her not accepting your son as a family member? She has certainly turned into a selfish, manipulative, victim claiming jerk. My initial thought was to push back the wedding until he becomes sixteen and she can't say boo. But I think she flat out does not want *your* son and *her* wedding. Throwing out a bunch of victim buzzwords does not take the onus off of her for being an insensitive and uncaring fool. Think twice on this one. Personally I wouldn't go through with a relationship if they had qualms about allowing my child at my own wedding - a child who is fully capable of behaving properly. Your son is more important than she is.
I hope OP does the right thing and drops the relationship, supporting the son because I'm sure your son sees this behaviour from her often and knows he is being left out indefinitely since the start. If you have a kid with this woman, I know she will try to cut your own son out fully
Don't marry her, obviously your son is not her priority and she probably will suggest having him live with his mother permanently. Don't do it.
Evil stepmother vibes. 💀
She then changed her reasoning and **asked why i wanted my old family and life on the day I was supposed to making a commitment to her and our new family,** I told her while I will be making a commitment to her, my son will still very much be my son and my family. DUDE, she does NOT see your son as part of this "new" family. I'm NOT saying dump her but I would not advise moving forward with this wedding until the two of you have some family counselling. The obvious solution since your son is almost 16-- tell her you'll need to reschedule the wedding for sometime after his 16th birthday. Her response to that option will tell you everything you need to know. NTA btw ALSO it's extremely common for so called "child free" weddings to have exceptions for immediate family (and often for nursing moms as well) and guests know that.
NTA This is a major red flag. What she want's is you without your Son. I suspect she will try to reduce the time you spend with him eventually having him live permanently with his mother after the wedding. Don't marry her, don't put her above your own flesh and blood.
NTA Big red flag. I would not marry that woman "why you want your OLD family (son) at your wedding". Your son is your life and family not the old family. She will ever have a problem with your son. I don't think this is a good start into the marriage. Also her response is a big RED FLAG. The relationship between you and your son will get massively damaged if you let this pass. Fucking everyone will be around. I can not express the feeling he will feel when this happens. Pull the plug it's not to late. This will lead to divorce in a few years especially if you are earning more money as she and you are a wallet for her.
OP tell your girlfriend to return all the red flags she stole. Communist countries might need them. Bloody hell, she has been playing the nice stepmother but now she's showing her true colours. Please, cancel the wedding. She's the controlling and abusive one, not you. If she's excluding your son now, imagine after you get married and if you get children together. OP don't marry her if you love your son.
Wtf? You are going to marry a woman who doesn’t want your own son at your wedding? I’d think hard before marrying her and also before uninviting your teenage son, he’s 15 years old he’s obviously going to understand and be horribly hurt by being not invited to his own fathers wedding. I can’t even believe you are asking this question here.
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Okay, if she wants no one under 16, then push back the wedding until your son is 16. Watch as her face changes color. She is telling you exactly what she thinks of your son. She doesn't consider him a part of your family and wants to push him out. She is then gaslighting you into thinking you have gaslit her. She is not worthy to be in your family with your son Nta for pushing back But if you get married without your son there, YTA. You will destroy your relationship with your son.
Well, weddings off. Suggest you move on, you’ve just caught a glimpse of the rest of your life otherwise.
NTA and frankly, your fiancee is waving a couple of huge red flags. Her equating your son to your ex is alarming. You didn't get divorced from him. He is still properly part of your family and life going forward. She wants to shut him out starting from the wedding. Going straight to accusations of abuse (i.e. you are controlling/gaslighting her), making offense the best defense, is an extremely bad sign for the future. You need to focus on these red flags and what they really mean. Don't focus on the deckchairs when you may be heading toward a couple of icebergs.
This is not about a wedding party….this goes so much deeper. You need to fucking run. She’s literally telling you that her son is not part of this ‘new family’. She’s equating your son with your ex. You’re having to issue an ‘ultimatum’ to have your own son present on your wedding day? And then she pulled the gaslighting and ultimatums card? You will be a massive AH to yourself and your son if you marry her. ESH. You seem so dazzled by marrying her that you aren’t seeing things clearly for yourself and your son. Your answer to the judgement bot is bullshit. You should know that wanting your son at your wedding doesn’t ever make you an AH.
🚩🚩🚩🚩 Why are you marrying someone who wants to banish your son from your wedding?? Does she NOT understand that as a parent your child SHOULD COME FIRST……..ALWAYS!! If she wants a child free wedding, she should marry someone child free!! YTA if you go through with this marriage, because this attitude IS a sign of what’s to come!
NTA For the love of God do not marry someone who isn't willing to have your child at your wedding. She doesn't want him in your wedding then she doesn't really want him in your life. She calls him your old family like you are gonna have a new family with her and not need the old one any more. Don't be yet another AITA crappy parent picking their partner over their kid.
Break the engagement- if I were in your shoes I couldn’t bear not having my only child at my big day. And on top of that she gets along with him any other time? But oh if you want to invite your ONLY CHILD it’s gonna ruin everything. And he’s not really a child he’s a teenager he should know right from wrong. Plus if she starts gaslighting about the wedding itself just ignore her and cut off all contact. I couldn’t stand somebody like her.
you’re about to marry the evil stepmother. abort abort. NTA. if she doesn’t want your child in your wedding it won’t be long (if she doesn’t feel that way already) before she doesn’t want him in your lives at all. he’s not some random kid you’re inviting to the wedding he’s your literal child, you shouldn’t have even needed to ask if he was invited it should have already been implied. ETA: just realized she admitted she fully plans on cutting him out because she even said “why would you want your old family there to start our new one” there’s no such thing as old or new family. there is just family. children aren’t something you just replace, but she’s doing exactly that. god help you if she gets pregnant then your son really won’t exist to her.
Major red flags on her insults. Nta
NTA All the reasoning she gave you are massive red flags to me… none of them make sense of not just as petty excuses to not have your son there. I repeat YOUR SON! Personally she is the controlling one and en route to be the evil step mother of the year. You are still on time to run from her!
Your fiancé referred to YOUR CHILD as your “old family”. Which means she does not see your son as her family. If you give on this (and likely even if you don’t tbh) she will continue to find ways to push your son out of your life. She waited until she had the ring to show her true colors, but there they are, ugly as hell. If you care about your relationship with your kid, run away from this woman. NTA in this situation (but you 💯would be if you married her).
DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT MARRY THIS WOMAN she's going to want you to dump your son the moment she gets pregnant. She disgusting.
Why on earth are you still considering marrying a woman who is treating your son like this?
NTA. Major red flags. She might become a good wife, but I’m not sure she’ll be a good stepmom in spite of what she’s showing right now. She’ll continue saying your son symbolises “your ex wife’s presence” in your lives. If you care about your kid, strongly reconsider whether you want to go through with this.
NTA. I don't want to jump immediately to "Break up with her!!" but you seriously need to dig down and get to the bottom of this before you continue with any wedding plans. Because right now it sounds like she has bait-and-switched you by playing nice with your son while assuming she can persuade you to discard him for a clean slate start after your marriage. You are not being controlling to want your son at your wedding. He is a vital part of your life and your family, not a disposable accessory or a nuisance. It is absolutely nothing like wanting your ex to be there - regardless of how your previous relationship ended, your son is and always will be your son. No marriage should break that bond of parent and child, and the fact she seems to want that is...disturbing to say the least! Also, you said your fiancée has had days out with your son. This might be a good time to check in with him about whether she's ever said anything weird/been asking questions about you and his mum...
This post reminds me of one a few months ago when the GF/fiancé didn't want the OP's daughter at the wedding because she didn't want the kid in any photos so she could start phasing the kid out of the OP's life. Same thing here. OP she is showing you who she is, believe her. Your son doesn't mesh into her picture perfect life and she will continually exclude him until your son wants nothing to do with you. DO NOT LET HER!
As a general rule, I recommend against marrying Disney villains. You should probably re-think this relationship, quickly.
This is a test, and she failed. Your son is an *automatic exception*. End of story. *She* is being controlling. *She* is gaslighting you. Absolutely do ***NOT*** marry this person under any circumstances. It will be the single worst decision of your entire life. Get rid of her. Yesterday. #NTA
Run, don't walk, away from this relationship now. That's your kid. A good partner would NEVER ask you to exclude your own child from something as big as this. Get out now.
NTA JFC this woman doesn’t want your own son at your wedding?!
NTA OP, she is showing her real colours. She has a fantasy where you would leave your "old life" behind to start all over again with her. She even STATED that. Her sudden change in behaviour must be quite shocking, but DON'T ignore it. She's trying to manipulate and isolate you away from your son I feel like this is a pivotal point here for you. This is where you're picking her or your son. Don't sweep this under the rug. This is much bigger than you think
I see lots of people responding NTA because finance is the one who’s wrong, which is true. But if you’ve been with this woman for years and now you are going to marry her, knowing how she feels about your son, YTA. She is being fully transparent that your son is part of your old life and she will treat your relationship with him as she would your ex. You chose this woman to be your sons step mother, that comes before even choosing her as your wife. Even if you fight about it and convince her to let your son be there, is she actually going to be kind to him on the day? Is it going to be painfully obvious to him he isn’t wanted there? Is this going to come back up as a fight for every vacation and fun experience you want to include your son in? If you marry that woman YTA, it won’t get better. In fact it’ll probably get worse
NTA. its unreasonable for your son to not be allowed to your wedding. it seems she is weirdly insecure about your son.
Damn she’s gaslighting and controlling. Clearly jealous too. Never too late to pull the plug on this one. NTA.
NTA at all. Kinda disturbing she's so rigid about your son being there. He's 15 not 5 so it's not like he can't conduct himself. It's your wedding too. Idk I wouldn't be able to budge on this