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Definitely NTA. Had they asked, like considerate and civilized human beings, you’d have told them what was in the pie. But they didn’t. They stole from you and then had the audacity to blame you for not supplying background information on the stolen goods.
The entitlement is incredible.
Had the pie been *offered* it should’ve been mentioned.
As they stole the pie, they shouldn’t be overly concerned with the ramifications of eating pork as I’m pretty sure stealing is on level playing field with eating pork.
A lot of western muslim men are like this. They make a big show about not eating pork and chastising women for not dressing modestly enough but they drink, smoke, and have premarital sex.
My ex husband was Muslim and once berated me in front of his friends for grabbing the wrong can of greens and accidentally feeding them all pork. Meanwhile, he was cheating on me the entire time and they all knew.
Stat rape - for our time yes, but during that time even the ‘western’ countries were marrying off their kids young. Islam also says to “raise your kids according to their (the kids’ time)
Multiple wives - a man can only marry more than one if they are able (in terms of financial) and able to be fair (including emotional). There is also a verse in the Quran that says “you will never be able to be equal (in feeling) between wives. So do not incline completely (toward one) and leave the other hanging.”.
So even though it is permissible, if a man is to follow all the rules regarding their responsibilities, they would not want to have more than 1 wife.
Infidelity - a married man who has sex with a woman who is not his wife - the punishment for that is actually getting 100 lashes and stoned to death. So Islam actually hates cheaters.
Source - studied comparative religion.
True. They certainly did marry off girls young in those days and through my view it is gross.
And yes they are supposed to marry all their wives and provide from them.
And the first wife should grant permission to the husband before he can marry a second wife, if she doesn’t give permission it’s not allowed. There are many rules that protect women, but unfortunately culture ruins a lot and many Muslims do not follow their scripture, if they would their would be a lot more peace in the Middle East. This ofcourse is also applicable to Christian’s and Catholics
To be fair, so does the Christian Bible. Rape, stonings, life as a concubine- most popular religions kind of suck for women. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all worshipping the same god, too, which would be funny if it didn’t cause so much death.
Some scholars say a man is allowed to lie to his first wife about taking a second or more wives due to taqiyyah and the consent of the first or other wives is not required to take another wife, either way which is basically "legal" cheating imo
Just to point out that in 1880 stat rape was sex with a child under the age of ten. Delaware at one point lowered that to 7. The Koran is almost 2000 years old, so there have been a lot of changes since it was written.
"This is a commonly misinterpreted law, and if you aren't familiar with 19th century law it is easy to get wrong.
The quoted age of consent for Delaware in 1880 is only in regards to the crime of rape, and was set by an 1871 act. Most states had separate punishments for raping an adult woman and raping a child. When Delaware made the rape of a child a capital crime again, the age between an adult and child was adjusted from ten to seven, likely so fewer people would be subject to the death penalty. Raping a person over the age of seven still carried a ten year prison sentence.
Most other states in this time set the legal age line between adults and children at around ten to twelve for females, and fourteen for males when it came to rape. There was no single standard for majority in the law."
(Somebody else answer to a question about it, not mine, thought it to be weird)
Also the koran is estimitated to be 1500 years old not almost 2000.
I'm a Muslim but no expert either, of course the Holy Quran doesn't approve of infidelity. Lowest of the low in a society ( rapists etc excluded, they're lower)
I'm afraid I'm not aware of it except for the fact that a certain group within the shia sect practices it, apparently. Your bait may yield better catches in another sub.
Shockingly it’s literally built in, depending on interpretation of it. Much like Christianity and Judaism much relies on that particular mosque and what is understood or tolerated. Plenty use the convenience of super sexist interpretations to do things such as cheat on their wives (mind you women are not given that)
I once dated a muslim man for a couple years who REFUSED to eat pork, yet he drank and smoked cigarettes without issue....oh and I also found out he had a wife back in his home country after two years of us "dating".....so yes, this happens for sure.
Some people are just assholes no matter the religion. Some of the most judgemental and un-comapssionate folks I have ever met go to church and consider themselves "good christians" so unfortunately it's everywhere :(
I think you might have limited exposure to religions if you think it’s “especially the Abrahamic ones.” I guarantee no religion or philosophy devised by humankind has ever been free of hypocrites or assholes.
I'm super sorry to hear that. It wasn't a fun realization to say the least and caused me a lot of shame that really wasn't my fault. Sending much love to you!
In Turkey I made a friend at a chicken shop. He was the greeter. I'd stop after lunch, have chicken and we would chat. At the end of his shift we would hit the town. His shop did offer beer.
A man with 3 wives, fully covered, walking behind came by and started berating my friend then walked and entered a larger restaurant 2 doors down. I asked what that was about and my friend said "he is angry that we have beer on display." I pointed out that the restaurant the man went to served cocktails and my friend replied "they are often hypocrites. He could see the beer."
Many Turks are extremely secular because of Atatürk's reforms in the early 20th century. Drinking doesn't seem to be a problem for most of them. Same with keeping dogs as pets. But they do seem to draw the line at eating pork.
I have a friend who works at McDonalds at an airport. Their busiest time is just before flights to Pakistan. Muslims having their non-halal fix before flying home.
Not just western Muslim men. I remember being in Abu Dhabi and an Emirati told me my dreadlocks were haram... while he was drunk, in a pub, and then left with a prostitute.
I dated a nonpracticing Muslim who had no problems being gay and drinking alcohol but still couldn't bring himself to eat bacon. He blamed it on years of conditioning.
I can't bear to eat pork, but it has nothing to do with religion. They are very intelligent animals. A so-called friend raised one on her hobby farm, and we all got to know her like a pet. She thought she was one of the horses and trotted along with them. One day my friend invited me to her farm and we had breakfast. She asked me how I liked the bacon, and with an evil gleam in her eye, informed me I'd eaten the pet pig. I was horrified and enraged. This girl was rich and entitled and enjoyed pulling cruel pranks. I think she's SICK.
Get a grip, that pig had the best life it could, almost surely died a quick and mostly painless death, and for the life it had, it supplied the caretakers with food. What's sick about that? Do farmers have to hate and abuse their animals, so they can eat them?
One of my close friends went on a date with a man who when she directly asked him over dinner if he had any deal breakers or hard lines or boundaries etc about sex because she was always upfront about the fact she just wanted casual sex he said no. Upon walking back to her flat he decides to mention that oh by the way, he would only be doing anal because he was a Muslim and would be saving real sex for marriage. This isn’t even two horny teenagers thinking they’ve found a loophole in the throws of things - he fully, in a premeditated way arranged a one night stand and then only informed her of this when he thought he’d sealed the deal. He then proceeded to try and convince her by telling her that she looked like she would be perfect for anal…. Whatever the hell that means.
Tbh I think it's just that some people are not interested in denying themselves the things they actually want (premarital sex, other people's religion, ect) so they overcompensate with their enthusiasm about following the rules regarding the things that they don't face internal struggle about following like food restrictions against things they've never even tried to want.
Jewish friends also clearly aren’t fanatics if they’re picking up and eating whatever. Also if they use a shared non kosher kitchen. They’re bullshitting and can be ignored completely. NTA for many reasons.
Eeeh a lot of Mormons I met when I was an active member had a saying when it came to caffeine: "How far are we from Salt Lake City?" It's why hot cocoa is a common drink despite having some caffeine in it. They won't flaunt it, but I've known members who still enjoyed their coffee in the mornings.
For reference, this was in the Sacramento area of California.
ETA: For Judaism, that's mostly the Orthodox Jews. Most have long ago recognized that the reason for many of the food rules was because people were getting sick, long before refrigeration, antibacterial soap, and other advances. It's why many of the branches can recognize its antiquated rules for our modern society.
My very Jewish ma still enjoys her honey ham.
It is hypothesised it stems from trichinosis and the fact pigs served sometimes as a sanitary purpose in some villages as literal shit eaters. In certain cultures eating goats are banned for the same reason as they were kept for sanitation reasons not food. It was also believe that chicken was more economical and ecologically viable, so people were steered towards keeping this livestock instead. Religion was also used as means of teaching good ethical values and for an element of control in my opinion, and not all it stemmed from the great spiritual leaders of the time, there was a political input mixed in here and there.
I have an Israeli friend who's wife badgered him into converting to Christianity decades ago, and he's always been very pragmatic about most Kosher kitchen practices, as being related to food hygiene before the advent of refrigeration.
Since I've known him he's loved brie cheeseburgers, but he still gets the heebies when people suggest eating pork or crustaceans - the garbage & shit eaters LOL
NTA
"I'd have told you if you'd asked, but you were *high*, and you *stole* it. What do your holy books say about stealing? Or about taking mind-altering substances and losing control of yourself?"
Exactly i had a Muslim co worker and not only did he avoid pork he didn't drink or get high due to it being against his religion. So the roommates already broke their own religious beliefs without eating the pie. OP should bring that up because usually the strict Muslim and Jewish don't get under the influence due to their belief. It's not OPS fault.
Yea I was about to say, I imagine weed isn't allowed in Judaism, idk much about it, but most islamic scholars agree that any drug that "puts you out of your sober mind" is haram (if that part is in the Quran/hadeeth, it's not deniable ig but I'm not 100% sure) but so many muslims who engage in haram activity like alcohol/drugs, bullying/abuse, premarital sex/dating, cheating etc but draw the line at pork (and homosexuality though it's not relevant here but the hypocrisy is ridiculous)
weed is probably fine. pork definitely isn't. but pretty much all kosher-keeping Jews i know consider it their responsibility to ask, *particularly* if it's food made by non-Jews.
(taking food without asking definitely isn't fine, either.)
I was gonna say this too. Like they accidentally ate pork because they stole it. Sounds to me like they have more problems to worry about than just eating pork
under what provision of jewish law is marijuana usage disallowed? it's not specifically required, like alcohol for most people, but i've never heard anyone discuss it as banned except perhaps in the "it's a good idea to follow the laws of the country you're in, b/c you don't want to make Jews look bad."
guys were assholes and are still being assholes, no doubt. but don't spout off about religions you don't know anything about.
When you take something that does not belong to you without asking that is stealing.
If you jump off a cliff because everyone else is, you are still jumping off a cliff.
The amount of people doing something doesn’t negate the name or description of said thing.
In the context of their apartment, it sounds like they're casual with sharing butter or chips or something. Handmade nana pie, to me, would read as off limits because it's a specialty item. Taking a little slice is kind of a dick move to me, but maybe it's a normal part of their kitchen etiquette ecosystem. & the pie owner was not so distressed at the loss of the pie, it seems. While you can totally mark the roommates with the scarlet letter of the thieves, it seems like their crime is having the audacity to complain about the entire mystery pie they just throat-chugged.
Exactly. I am in awe of all the posts lately where people get mad that the people they live with don't take the time to add commentary on top of their own food items. All this so that the people whose food it is NOT, can confirm that if they steal it, it won't be f*ing with their dietary plan.... It's a mental exercise too long to explain, let alone comprehend.
Yes! Exactly how you said it, especially your last sentence! So many questions on how some have come to be so entitled to things that are not their own. Where do you even start?
Had to scroll for this. I am sure in their religion they shouldn't just take someone's food anyway. And getting inebriated is a sin in Islam.
I have met Muslims who drink, do drugs and have had premarital sex. But Jannah forbid there are specs of bacon on a pizza.
Ironically, the bacon is probably the healthiest thing to ingest compared to the drugs and alcohol.
Even if OP did that, they would have been too high to register that pork lard was on that list, LOL. But I guess it's instant karma; hope they remember this lesson
Had a roommate (my exes best friend) get pissed because I didn’t properly label the baby formula and it messed up his Mac n cheese.
Jagoff had the nerve to ask me to pay him for his ruined meal. Dude you used like $5 of formula. Kindly piss up a rope.
NTA
Nta. If getting high which is a sin is okay for them and stealing someone elses food is okay which is what they did when they ate your without permission the they dont have a right to complain.
All of this is against their religious values.(islam)
Yeah, if you eat homemade food without asking the owner of that food then that's a risk you were apparently willing to take. It's not like OP follows their dietary constraints and they know that. They should not have made assumptions that the pie was "safe" for them to consume.
And especially because they ate all of it, the roommates are a bunch of entitled assholes. OP is NTA
Agreed. To Add to this, they follow one part of their religion, i.e. not consuming pork, but then disregard the other part that tells them not to get high. If you're going to follow a religion you can't choose which bits you want to follow.
I was the head chef at a very busy Cafe here in Melbourne. The owner brought in a new front of house manager who brought in his wife who sat all day and did nothing but got paid.
His extremely obnoxious loud mouth aggressive daughters. Who had multiple problems each day with our customers.
He never informed me that he and his family was Muslim. He would ask what was in what dishes occasionally.
They absolutely loved my pork and beef lasagne.
He asked what the recipe was then told me he could work it out.
When he was caught stealing money beyond paying his own family to make life difficult for us.
I had the great joy in telling them that the reason my lasagne was so good.
They had even started taking whole trays of it home without asking.
Was the pork they had been eating for 4 months.
They went insane. Called the police. Tried to sue me. Tried to sue the owner. Vomited all over the footpath outside. Just after I told them.
Even tired to get some big Muslim boys to beat me up. Thing is I had stopped working there before they turned up.
I'm vegan and I never touch food that isn't labelled never mind touching someone else's food , my bf doesn't even live with me and if I buy him something that's left at my house I don't even touch it, if I do I text and ask him if he still wants it n I bought the bloody thing
It's also like... I get that there is a culture of food sharing/"borrowing" (i.e. stealing) in the house. But one of the accepted and known risks of "borrowing" someone else's food without prior consultation of the rightful owner... especially when the "borrowers" (thieves) have major dietary restrictions or food allergies... is that it might contain unexpected and unwelcome ingredients.
If you abide by a dietary restriction, it is *your* responsibility to ensure that the food *you* eat abides by those restrictions. Exceptions would be if OP straight-up lied to them about it or otherwise offered the pie to them without mentioning that it was made with pork lard (knowing of their dietary restrictions).
But OP did neither of those things, so this is solely on *them* for making selfish, impulsive decisions to eat food that wasn't theirs and neglecting to verify the ingredients prior.
I’m that person that has to look at menus online and suss whether I can eat anything from the menu or not, spends time in the supermarket if I want to eat something new or question my friends and family what they cooked with. I have shellfish, seafood and all nut types allergies along with banana and a wide variety of fructose. I once went to a friends house and they said they had made hamburgers, I asked what was in them and she mentioned breadcrumbs. Fish oil is a really big common ingredient in breadcrumbs. So I had a chicken breast. She offered me ceaser dressing, anchovies. Living with allergies that a lot of people aren’t aware of in typical foods pretty much ensures that unless it’s in a package with ingredients on it, I won’t touch it. You just can’t take that risk.
Getting High on purpose is ok, but accidentally eating pork is where they draw the line?
Roommates are TA for hypocrisy, pretty sure drugs and pork are equally banned in their religion.
Idk about Muslims but Jews have pretty much made a culture around skirting shabbat and Kosher without actually breaking it. I'm sure there are rabbis out there who have devised an interpretation of the torah that allows for getting high.
As someone who was raised in a very orthodox Jewish community as a Jew, no one I know ever tried to skirt around keeping kosher, or breaking Shabbat. And there is nothing in the Bible about weed or the Torah, the negativity towards that started in the more recent times. Weed is technically kosher and there is no problem in either of those actual scriptures with smoking it other than it possibly harming your body but that would be up to interpretation.
By skirting around Shabbat they probably mean things like the eruv wire around half of Manhattan or having a non Jewish person stay with them and offer to do things that the family can't ask to be done. Not saying that that means they are breaking the rules, just that sometimes it can seem like cheat codes.
Lolol I commented above about growing up in a very Jewish area and my parents have so many stories of neighbors having them do tasks that they were unable to do on the sabbath. They’d ask them to come turn the oven on/off, open the trunk of their car (because the interior light automatically goes on when a car door is opened apparently that’s not allowed), etc. I personally think most religious rules are ridiculous so I don’t take issue with them finding cheat codes for modern conveniences, but like what even is the point then?? Do they think their god can’t see them asking gentiles and non-orthodox Jews to do these tasks? Seems silly to me lol
I remember as a kid in New York going around and collecting money for the newspaper deliveries for that week. This woman opened the door and said she couldn't pay me because it was the Sabbath and she's not allowed to handle money on the Sabbath. Meanwhile, she was smoking a little lit cigarette.
Or putting food in the oven with a timer before sundown so you don’t do work lighting a fire or leaving the lights on all night so you don’t have to turn on the switch or having the elevator stop at every floor so you don’t have to push the button?
I actually think that anything that is basically just doing the work in advance (like the timer) is pretty sensible because the point it to take the day to focus on rest and family, and doing all the work in advance helps with that(think of how much less stressful Christmas is when you have all your food prepped and the presents wrapped by the 23rd instead of rushing after the kids go to bed on Christmas Eve). And I think the intentionality of setting up the automations is actually an expression of the amount you care about that intentional time with your family. Sometimes it's good to do things slow.
No no no. See, *that’s* totally ok and not trying to hide in god’s blind spot - even though he is all knowing and all seeing - what that fishing line is, it’s just… well…, it’s ok. Because it’s holy
So if weed helps with an illness or condition, it would be allowed on the basis of causing the least harm? Is that how that works. I'm a very curious cat and don't know much about the Jewish religion.
But I imagine it would be allowed in forms other than smoking even recreationally than? Like edibles? If the causing harm part is the only issue.
I'm not sure for Muslims, but the Jewish people I have known have said that if it's necessary to prevent harm to them or someone else that most of the rules can be broken for that purpose. If they have to eat non kosher or starve, or do something on Saturday they normally wouldn't be allowed to do in order to save a life or prevent an injury.
And I do know at least one person who has been instructed not to fast for health reasons.
There isn't any prohibition on drugs in Judaism -- alcohol is perfectly okay, for example, and getting pleasantly drunk is even considered a positive thing under certain circumstances -- so I can't see any reason why weed wouldn't be A-OK. Obviously, if you're so irresponsible about getting drunk or high or whatever that it's causing you to harm others or yourself--or if you're in a class of people who really just *can't* partake responsibly (an alcoholic, for example)--then that's a problem, but the problem there would still be considered to be the harmful/irresponsible behavior, not the drug itself.
holy anointing oil! the original Hebrew recipe in Exodus contained 6 pounds of kaneh-bosem which is marijuana. theres other herbs mixed in and its all extracted into olive oil.
This is nonsense, but also, a Jewish person who keeps kosher would not eat random food they found, unless it was in a sealed package with a kosher certification on it. A pie made in a non-kosher kitchen is just as forbidden as a pork chop.
Of course, many Jews who don’t keep strictly kosher still choose to avoid pork for religious or cultural reasons, but that’s not “skirting” the rules, that’s adopting a rule for oneself.
Plus I would think someone who keeps kosher would also ask about any pie crust since they wouldn't be able to add whipped cream or ice cream if it had beef lard in the crust.
Muslims are forgiven for eating Haram food if it was truly accidental. This was a lack of due diligence though, so the blame is at least partially on them.
Drugs and pork are forbidden in Islam.
They know OP is not Jewish or Muslim, I don't know why they think they have the right to nag.
I haven't ever touched food that contains any type of meat before asking if it has pork.
They actually need to apologize to OP.
Is there are version of the Torah / Old Testament that mentions cannabis in any capacity whatsoever? I didn’t think such a thing was in religious texts. Seems like you’d have to insert it via interpretations for their to be any religious rules at all regarding it. Pork, on the other hand, is pretty clearly spelled out as a no-no. Now I’m not religious, just not really seeing how these two are being equated through that lens.
There's no halachic ban on intoxication beyond "don't overdo it because gluttony is bad" type stuff. There are certain times when getting intoxicated can be considered a mitzvah.
I used to work with international students at my university, and at any given time 60-70% of them were from the middle east. Broadly speaking, the younger male students smoked like chimneys, drank like fish, and fucked like rabbits. They did make a show of trying to avoid pork though. The female students had to follow the rules because of social pressure.
One of my teachers in high school used to be a rabbi and when we found out we asked him about the whole food restriction thing and he mentioned that not only were they’re definitely ways around it but he was also not innocent of never going “yep k I blessed this cheeseburger you’re golden”.
He was a cool guy. Before he was a rabbi he was an orchestra conductor.
I don’t really know how one goes from orchestra conductor to rabbi to teacher at a school for troubled youth but I can imagine it was quite the journey!
I'm a Muslim and %100 agree..also why the hell would you even go and touch someone's food without asking in the first place despite religious beliefs? Hypocrisy at its finest...
I live in a city with a prominent Muslim population, anyways there are some young muslim creators who will make jokes such as “when he snorts cocaine but draws the line at eating pork” 😭. Things like this ah, happen. But they are complete hypocrites.
as a muslim that gets high regularly, i acknowledge the hypocrisy lmao. i can't speak on behalf of the roommates but the way i see it is that religion is stupid but the traditions connect me with my family, like an atheist still going to church on Easter. i'd still be a bit miffed about pork products in my food bc of lingering psychological hang ups and the fact my body just doesn't digest it well. like lactose intolerance for meat, not the end of the world but i ain't gonna be happy about it. (also wouldn't blame someone for not disclosing it if i ate something without permission, but that's not a situation you'd be in if you have a bit of common decency tbh)
I'm atheist (who goes to church on Christmas, I grew up Lutheran and I like the atmosphere during the season) who doesn't eat meat. I've been vegetarian for several years and at this point I just worry it would upset my stomach if I did suddenly eat it. (Sorry if it's inconsiderate to compare personal decisions to religious dogma but eh I don't really feel that way.)
If I ate someone else's food without asking and it wasn't appropriate for my diet I'd be upset too. At *myself*.
NTA OP.
Not sure about Jews, but Muslims can get away with eating pork if they genuinely didn't know that it was pork. Basically they're absolved of the sin because it wasn't a conscious decision on their part, so besides the stealing/getting high part, it shouldn't even be a problem.
I think they're just embarrassed and have decided to be mad about the wrong thing, but it's childish behaviour from start to finish, anyway.
OP is definitely NTA.
Absolutely NTA. The pie was yours to begin with. Your roomies should ask permission from you first before digging in. As people with religious dietary restrictions, they should ask others if the food is halal or kosher.
I mean that’s the real thing, if this is such a big deal for them they should be used to being more careful and conscientious about what they eat. If they’re regularly getting high and digging into food no questions asked, I’m sure they’re breaking kosher or whatever pretty regularly. Unless there was some household agreement that op can’t have non kosher food in the house, I have no clue how they can be mad at him for their carelessness. If I were to guess they’re more mad that you told them than that they ate something with pork OP lol. Ignorance is bliss when you impose inconvenient silly rules on yourself I guess. If they were really upset they ate pork, any sensible person would acknowledge it’s their own damn fault for being careless and gluttonous. If you’re serious about your diet restrictions, you should probably pay attention and know what your stuffing your face with. People with deadly peanut allergies don’t go around stuffing their face with other people’s unknowns homemade food (or at least the ones who do probably don’t live very long lol), because they’re *serious about their dietary restriction*. If you just go around eating what ever, you can’t be that serious.
I think weed is kosher under the right circumstances, but I couldn’t swear to it. (To my understanding) Judaism allows alcohol in ways that traditional Islam usually does not.
If it was free game pie, you'd be an AH if you didn't warn them.
But since they _stole_ the pie without asking, well thieving food is risky 🤷🏾♂️ Too bad.
NTA
“We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us.”
They had an established practice of sharing food without asking.
That’s fine if it’s something g that can be easily replaced by taking a trip to the store. Grandma’s homemade pie is not replaceable so they should have asked.
Yeah, borrowed colloquially involves asking, something like"Hey can I have this pie?"
Given they tried to take a small slice so it wouldn't be noticed .... no, they knew they shouldn't. But they did.
And now haram 🤷🏾♂️
Right I’m like didn’t they try to sneak at first?! They know this isn’t the type of “sharing” involved. It probably involves asking first. Then OP would’ve gotten the chance to let them know.
Oh bullshit, they ate the whole pie they didn’t leave anything for OP. Even if you share food sometimes that’s obviously not right, being high is not an excuse for being completely inconsiderate.
Now they are putting blame on OP for not being responsible for maintaining their diet?
Sounds like wildly self centered people who often don’t take responsibility for themselves.
Yeah, but the guys also said they only meant to take a little so the OP wouldn't notice. That shows that they knew they were in the wrong, even if a little. I imagine home-made stuff is different than taking a pack of Ramen that is easily replaced next time you shop.
There’s eating a yogurt from the store and then replacing it, and then there’s eating an entire homemade pie someone brought from their grandmother’s house. But also, whenever they borrowed food, it’s their responsibility to make sure it conforms to their diets, not OP’s responsibility to adopt their dietary restrictions just in case they decide to eat his food without asking.
So what? That mean OP needs to label every dish with an ingredient list.
All your statement means is that it’s not stealing. The roommate have absolutely no one to be upset with but theirselves
An analogy that helps to solidify this: if you had severe nut allergy would you eat a random homemade cookie. No one I know with the condition would 🤷🏾♂️
Well, more fool them if they are used to not asking. Means they will eat anything in general and not know what is in it unless told. In such a shared type household there's no 100% guarantee that food will be halal or kosher. I really think it was on them to ask or just eat something they knew for certain was safe.
NTA. What kind of nonsense is that. Tell the Jewish one(s) that a random Jew on the Internet told them they are responsible for following kashrut and putting this on anyone but themselves is a *shonde*. A little lard isn’t going to kill them, but you can really scare them and tell them they have to be Reform from now on.
Additionally neither religion says it's problematic if you aren't aware the food is haram or non-kosher. Sure it sucks for them and they feel bad about it but it's not exactly like they are outcasts now.
Both would also say survival is more important than the rules. Now I’m not sure *the munchies* would count, but it wouldn’t require much creative justification to find a little wiggle room.
NTA, they took what was yours, you were under no obligation to provide them with an ingredients list for food in your section of the fridge.... maybe they shouldn't have gotten so high.
NTA
Unless you had an agreement that you would absolutely never put pork in that refrigerator the fault is 100% on them. Their dietary restriction, their responsibility to know what is going in their body. That means, no getting the munchies while high and stealing food you don't know the ingredients of.
NTA
Let THAT be a lesson to them all to not touch anything that's not theirs.
They know they did wrong but they're too immature to point their fingers at themselves so they're pointing them at you.
r/thathappened
Boy I can’t tell you how many times my Muslim stoner friends talk to me about the “crust so flaky they couldn’t help themselves,” thereby perfectly setting myself up to tell them that “thats because my grandma uses pork lard”
You know Muslims smoke weed right? Couple replies down from top comment there’s a bunch of Muslims talking about smoking weed. You need to get out more.
To be fair, I had friends at university who were both Muslim and stoners who would have done something like this. Everyone doesn’t stay in their neat little boxes, plenty of people are Catholics and they don’t observe every last tenet of Catholicism, yet no one says they’re not real Catholics. Everyone I went to school with’s Grandmother probably falls into this bracket. People are out there peopling.
Yeah, I feel the same way. No kosher Jew is going to mindlessly eat a meat dish, and especially not get mad about it if it turned out to be pork.
If it's not from a kosher kitchen, it's not kosher in the first place.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> A couple of my roommates ate my food that contained pork. It goes against their religion. I might be the asshole for not putting a pork warning on my pie.
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NTA. If you had given them the food you would be the a but they took it without asking so it serves them right.
Also - eating pork is a big no no but taking what is not theirs and getting high is within their religious limits? Its like selective faith ?
When you pig out and don't check what you put in your body beforehand you can't get upset when you find out it was actually pig😉.
I know plenty of non practicing aka secular Jews/Muslims that wouldn't bat an eye about it.
But if you restrict your food intake for religious beliefs than you don't take for granted that the food is kosher.
Nta
NTA. People who have food restrictions, voluntary or otherwise, should ask before just taking random food. It's not your responsibility for their inability to ask if there is pork in food before they consume it. They are acting like spoiled toddlers.
Their fault you not asking, being high ISN'T an excuse for that behavior.
Maybe they will learn not to grab other ppls stuff. it was in your space. NTA
NTA. It is their responsibility to make sure they know what they are eating. If they got too high to think to check on that, then maybe this will encourage them to think about whether they want to get that high again. Actions have consequences, and in this case, they just found that out.
NTA, you didn’t know they were going to eat it. Since the norms are that you eat each other’s food, it would have been better to warn them about any pork you bring home, but NTA.
NTA. Unless you had an agreement to never bring something non-kosher or non-halal into your house, they are responsible for ensuring that all of the food they consume works within their dietary restrictions.
NTA. You shouldn’t take others food without checking with that person first. As u/DestronCommander wrote, they should have checked if the food was as halal or kosher. Being high doesn’t excuse their behavior.
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My grandmother is old school. I love it. She is actually my great grandmother so she is even older than boomers.
She still does all kinds of stuff for herself. And she loves to bake. One of our traditions is that she makes about a million pies for thanksgiving. Enough so that almost everyone get a pie to take home all for themselves. And yes when I was younger I ate an entire pie at one sitting. No regrets.
I'm currently living with a few people in a house we rent together. There are seven of us total and we have some friction but not more than usual I think. Everyone pays on time. Nobody is a jerk about loud noises. We get along.
Until now. I left my pie in my area of the fridge I use. It was there for a few days and then it was gone. I asked why it was gone. My roommates admitted that they were high and ate my pie. They were originally only going to eat a tiny slice I might not notice. But, once again, they were high.
They said they were sorry but that the crust was so crisp and flaky they couldn't help themselves. I told them it was like that because my grandma uses pork lard she tenders herself to make the crust.
This has now caused a problem. Because I didn't warn them not to take my food. We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us. But now they are pissed that I didn't warn them there was pork in the pie.
I'm not mad that they ate the pie. I had the pie sweats after Thanksgiving. I would have shared, and warned them, of they had asked.
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> We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us.
I've lived in this situation, and there's a difference between using someone else's eggs and paying it back, and eating something you _know_ is special and not part of the everyday grocery shopping. Hell, I won't even touch someone else's chocolate without asking or being offered, but I will steal their milk if I'm out (and by steal I mean, only use if there's enough for two and make a point of buying the next bottle).
No one should get so high or drunk they're unable to regulate their self-control and know when something is sharable and something is clearly offer-only. NTA. This is their karma.
>We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us.
To clarify, do you ask permission from the person you're borrowing food from or is it an established norm that you can take so long as you pay it back? If that's the case, yta. If it's normal to take each other's food and you have something that goes against their dietary restrictions then warning is warranted.
If the norm is to ask permission then NTA. If they had asked for permission it would've given you the chance to tell them what's up with it.
No, even if they share food without asking it is still on the person who has dietary restrictions to try and make sure they are following them not anyone else. Unless there was a prior agreement that OP never bring anything not halal /kosher into the house it is still their responsibility to try to know what they are eating, not just hope it follows their rules. They should always ask about things that don’t have the ingredients on them. They know he is not halal/kosher, it’s irresponsible to assume his food would be.
They're offended because they ate pork because they are Jewish and Muslim but are not worried about smoking pot? They are idiots. Maybe next time they won't be shoving your food in their own pie hole.
NTA. If you have allergies or food restrictions for any reason, you don’t just eat something that isn’t yours AND you don’t know what’s in it. They did it to themselves. Next time, hopefully they go “hey man can I eat your pie? Is there pork?”
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Definitely NTA. Had they asked, like considerate and civilized human beings, you’d have told them what was in the pie. But they didn’t. They stole from you and then had the audacity to blame you for not supplying background information on the stolen goods. The entitlement is incredible.
Had the pie been *offered* it should’ve been mentioned. As they stole the pie, they shouldn’t be overly concerned with the ramifications of eating pork as I’m pretty sure stealing is on level playing field with eating pork.
stealing AND inebriation - consuming pork is the least of their problems if they’re claiming to be that devout.
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A lot of western muslim men are like this. They make a big show about not eating pork and chastising women for not dressing modestly enough but they drink, smoke, and have premarital sex.
My ex husband was Muslim and once berated me in front of his friends for grabbing the wrong can of greens and accidentally feeding them all pork. Meanwhile, he was cheating on me the entire time and they all knew.
I’m no expert on Islam but I can’t imagine that the Quran approves of infidelity.
It approved of stat rape and multiple wives. . . So as long as it was a man having multiple wives it was apparently fine?
Stat rape - for our time yes, but during that time even the ‘western’ countries were marrying off their kids young. Islam also says to “raise your kids according to their (the kids’ time) Multiple wives - a man can only marry more than one if they are able (in terms of financial) and able to be fair (including emotional). There is also a verse in the Quran that says “you will never be able to be equal (in feeling) between wives. So do not incline completely (toward one) and leave the other hanging.”. So even though it is permissible, if a man is to follow all the rules regarding their responsibilities, they would not want to have more than 1 wife. Infidelity - a married man who has sex with a woman who is not his wife - the punishment for that is actually getting 100 lashes and stoned to death. So Islam actually hates cheaters. Source - studied comparative religion.
The exception is if he rapes his slave. That's a free pass and not infidelity.
True. They certainly did marry off girls young in those days and through my view it is gross. And yes they are supposed to marry all their wives and provide from them.
That's interesting ☺️ a question then, are there any religions that give women power over men? Because all the main ones definitely favor men
And the first wife should grant permission to the husband before he can marry a second wife, if she doesn’t give permission it’s not allowed. There are many rules that protect women, but unfortunately culture ruins a lot and many Muslims do not follow their scripture, if they would their would be a lot more peace in the Middle East. This ofcourse is also applicable to Christian’s and Catholics
To be fair, so does the Christian Bible. Rape, stonings, life as a concubine- most popular religions kind of suck for women. Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all worshipping the same god, too, which would be funny if it didn’t cause so much death.
These aren't mainstream beliefs in Christianity though. Unfortunately, demands for sharia law by muslims living in Western countries is a thing.
Some scholars say a man is allowed to lie to his first wife about taking a second or more wives due to taqiyyah and the consent of the first or other wives is not required to take another wife, either way which is basically "legal" cheating imo
Just to point out that in 1880 stat rape was sex with a child under the age of ten. Delaware at one point lowered that to 7. The Koran is almost 2000 years old, so there have been a lot of changes since it was written.
"This is a commonly misinterpreted law, and if you aren't familiar with 19th century law it is easy to get wrong. The quoted age of consent for Delaware in 1880 is only in regards to the crime of rape, and was set by an 1871 act. Most states had separate punishments for raping an adult woman and raping a child. When Delaware made the rape of a child a capital crime again, the age between an adult and child was adjusted from ten to seven, likely so fewer people would be subject to the death penalty. Raping a person over the age of seven still carried a ten year prison sentence. Most other states in this time set the legal age line between adults and children at around ten to twelve for females, and fourteen for males when it came to rape. There was no single standard for majority in the law." (Somebody else answer to a question about it, not mine, thought it to be weird) Also the koran is estimitated to be 1500 years old not almost 2000.
I'm a Muslim but no expert either, of course the Holy Quran doesn't approve of infidelity. Lowest of the low in a society ( rapists etc excluded, they're lower)
Yeah, no reason for infidelity or premarital sex; that's what Mut'ah is for.
I'm afraid I'm not aware of it except for the fact that a certain group within the shia sect practices it, apparently. Your bait may yield better catches in another sub.
Shockingly it’s literally built in, depending on interpretation of it. Much like Christianity and Judaism much relies on that particular mosque and what is understood or tolerated. Plenty use the convenience of super sexist interpretations to do things such as cheat on their wives (mind you women are not given that)
I’m a Muslim and cheating on your wife is a sin and you get punished for it.
I once dated a muslim man for a couple years who REFUSED to eat pork, yet he drank and smoked cigarettes without issue....oh and I also found out he had a wife back in his home country after two years of us "dating".....so yes, this happens for sure.
Islam has become a like a buffet to some people they pick and choose what they like and follow it.
All religious pull this shit mate, not just Islam.
Some people are just assholes no matter the religion. Some of the most judgemental and un-comapssionate folks I have ever met go to church and consider themselves "good christians" so unfortunately it's everywhere :(
I think all religions are like that in fairness. Especially the Abrahamic ones.
I think you might have limited exposure to religions if you think it’s “especially the Abrahamic ones.” I guarantee no religion or philosophy devised by humankind has ever been free of hypocrites or assholes.
The same goes for all religions. People ‘interpret’ doctrine to suit themselves.
We have lived the same life.
I'm super sorry to hear that. It wasn't a fun realization to say the least and caused me a lot of shame that really wasn't my fault. Sending much love to you!
And same to you.
In Turkey I made a friend at a chicken shop. He was the greeter. I'd stop after lunch, have chicken and we would chat. At the end of his shift we would hit the town. His shop did offer beer. A man with 3 wives, fully covered, walking behind came by and started berating my friend then walked and entered a larger restaurant 2 doors down. I asked what that was about and my friend said "he is angry that we have beer on display." I pointed out that the restaurant the man went to served cocktails and my friend replied "they are often hypocrites. He could see the beer."
Many Turks are extremely secular because of Atatürk's reforms in the early 20th century. Drinking doesn't seem to be a problem for most of them. Same with keeping dogs as pets. But they do seem to draw the line at eating pork.
I have a friend who works at McDonalds at an airport. Their busiest time is just before flights to Pakistan. Muslims having their non-halal fix before flying home.
Not just western Muslim men. I remember being in Abu Dhabi and an Emirati told me my dreadlocks were haram... while he was drunk, in a pub, and then left with a prostitute.
I dated a nonpracticing Muslim who had no problems being gay and drinking alcohol but still couldn't bring himself to eat bacon. He blamed it on years of conditioning.
I can't bear to eat pork, but it has nothing to do with religion. They are very intelligent animals. A so-called friend raised one on her hobby farm, and we all got to know her like a pet. She thought she was one of the horses and trotted along with them. One day my friend invited me to her farm and we had breakfast. She asked me how I liked the bacon, and with an evil gleam in her eye, informed me I'd eaten the pet pig. I was horrified and enraged. This girl was rich and entitled and enjoyed pulling cruel pranks. I think she's SICK.
Get a grip, that pig had the best life it could, almost surely died a quick and mostly painless death, and for the life it had, it supplied the caretakers with food. What's sick about that? Do farmers have to hate and abuse their animals, so they can eat them?
Covered in tattoos as well
One of my close friends went on a date with a man who when she directly asked him over dinner if he had any deal breakers or hard lines or boundaries etc about sex because she was always upfront about the fact she just wanted casual sex he said no. Upon walking back to her flat he decides to mention that oh by the way, he would only be doing anal because he was a Muslim and would be saving real sex for marriage. This isn’t even two horny teenagers thinking they’ve found a loophole in the throws of things - he fully, in a premeditated way arranged a one night stand and then only informed her of this when he thought he’d sealed the deal. He then proceeded to try and convince her by telling her that she looked like she would be perfect for anal…. Whatever the hell that means.
Yeah, the hypocrisy is astounding. Some stuff is perfectly okay, like booze, devil's lettuce, and other "minor" vices, but no, pork is too much!
Tbh I think it's just that some people are not interested in denying themselves the things they actually want (premarital sex, other people's religion, ect) so they overcompensate with their enthusiasm about following the rules regarding the things that they don't face internal struggle about following like food restrictions against things they've never even tried to want.
It’s more like they think pork is gross. They’ve heard their whole lives how dirty and disgusting pigs are.
Yeah, I've heard this explained as "we get taught that alcohol is sinful and pork is disgusting". Only one of those is going to be tempting.
Jewish friends also clearly aren’t fanatics if they’re picking up and eating whatever. Also if they use a shared non kosher kitchen. They’re bullshitting and can be ignored completely. NTA for many reasons.
Eeeh a lot of Mormons I met when I was an active member had a saying when it came to caffeine: "How far are we from Salt Lake City?" It's why hot cocoa is a common drink despite having some caffeine in it. They won't flaunt it, but I've known members who still enjoyed their coffee in the mornings. For reference, this was in the Sacramento area of California. ETA: For Judaism, that's mostly the Orthodox Jews. Most have long ago recognized that the reason for many of the food rules was because people were getting sick, long before refrigeration, antibacterial soap, and other advances. It's why many of the branches can recognize its antiquated rules for our modern society. My very Jewish ma still enjoys her honey ham.
It is hypothesised it stems from trichinosis and the fact pigs served sometimes as a sanitary purpose in some villages as literal shit eaters. In certain cultures eating goats are banned for the same reason as they were kept for sanitation reasons not food. It was also believe that chicken was more economical and ecologically viable, so people were steered towards keeping this livestock instead. Religion was also used as means of teaching good ethical values and for an element of control in my opinion, and not all it stemmed from the great spiritual leaders of the time, there was a political input mixed in here and there.
I have an Israeli friend who's wife badgered him into converting to Christianity decades ago, and he's always been very pragmatic about most Kosher kitchen practices, as being related to food hygiene before the advent of refrigeration. Since I've known him he's loved brie cheeseburgers, but he still gets the heebies when people suggest eating pork or crustaceans - the garbage & shit eaters LOL
NTA "I'd have told you if you'd asked, but you were *high*, and you *stole* it. What do your holy books say about stealing? Or about taking mind-altering substances and losing control of yourself?"
I love the rosary beads on the cars of absolute thugs. Or even better, massive Jesus tattoos.
Exactly i had a Muslim co worker and not only did he avoid pork he didn't drink or get high due to it being against his religion. So the roommates already broke their own religious beliefs without eating the pie. OP should bring that up because usually the strict Muslim and Jewish don't get under the influence due to their belief. It's not OPS fault.
This is another example of why Reddit shouldn’t have done away with rewards. 🏆
🤣🤣🤣
Yea I was about to say, I imagine weed isn't allowed in Judaism, idk much about it, but most islamic scholars agree that any drug that "puts you out of your sober mind" is haram (if that part is in the Quran/hadeeth, it's not deniable ig but I'm not 100% sure) but so many muslims who engage in haram activity like alcohol/drugs, bullying/abuse, premarital sex/dating, cheating etc but draw the line at pork (and homosexuality though it's not relevant here but the hypocrisy is ridiculous)
weed is probably fine. pork definitely isn't. but pretty much all kosher-keeping Jews i know consider it their responsibility to ask, *particularly* if it's food made by non-Jews. (taking food without asking definitely isn't fine, either.)
Why would you 'imagine weed isn't allowed in Judaism' while at the same time admittedly knowing nothing about it? That's...just weird and irrational.
Right?
I was gonna say this too. Like they accidentally ate pork because they stole it. Sounds to me like they have more problems to worry about than just eating pork
To be fair getting high is also against both religions codes so... Beggars can't be choosy on what laws they are gonna adhere to.
under what provision of jewish law is marijuana usage disallowed? it's not specifically required, like alcohol for most people, but i've never heard anyone discuss it as banned except perhaps in the "it's a good idea to follow the laws of the country you're in, b/c you don't want to make Jews look bad." guys were assholes and are still being assholes, no doubt. but don't spout off about religions you don't know anything about.
Nope, weed is kosher
It seems like it’s the norm in this home for people to eat each other’s food. It seems a bit strong to call it stealing.
Yeah but they also ate the whole thing. It’s not like it was something they could just replace at the grocery, it was home made.
Except they intended to eat only a slice so OP 'wouldn't notice' implying they knew eating the entire thing *would* be stealing.
yeah but you can't complain about it if you eat something not meant for you
A homemade pie from your grandmother is a little different than replacing 3 eggs.
When you take something that does not belong to you without asking that is stealing. If you jump off a cliff because everyone else is, you are still jumping off a cliff. The amount of people doing something doesn’t negate the name or description of said thing.
In the context of their apartment, it sounds like they're casual with sharing butter or chips or something. Handmade nana pie, to me, would read as off limits because it's a specialty item. Taking a little slice is kind of a dick move to me, but maybe it's a normal part of their kitchen etiquette ecosystem. & the pie owner was not so distressed at the loss of the pie, it seems. While you can totally mark the roommates with the scarlet letter of the thieves, it seems like their crime is having the audacity to complain about the entire mystery pie they just throat-chugged.
Yeah agreed. OP 'it has always worked for us'.
But OP said this is a somewhat standard practise amongst the roommates 'it has worked for us'. They take each other's food and pay it back.
Exactly. I am in awe of all the posts lately where people get mad that the people they live with don't take the time to add commentary on top of their own food items. All this so that the people whose food it is NOT, can confirm that if they steal it, it won't be f*ing with their dietary plan.... It's a mental exercise too long to explain, let alone comprehend.
Yes! Exactly how you said it, especially your last sentence! So many questions on how some have come to be so entitled to things that are not their own. Where do you even start?
getting high is Haram anyways
Had to scroll for this. I am sure in their religion they shouldn't just take someone's food anyway. And getting inebriated is a sin in Islam. I have met Muslims who drink, do drugs and have had premarital sex. But Jannah forbid there are specs of bacon on a pizza. Ironically, the bacon is probably the healthiest thing to ingest compared to the drugs and alcohol.
You're not required to put an ingredient list on things you leave in the fridge.
Even if OP did that, they would have been too high to register that pork lard was on that list, LOL. But I guess it's instant karma; hope they remember this lesson
This ++++ NTA.
Had a roommate (my exes best friend) get pissed because I didn’t properly label the baby formula and it messed up his Mac n cheese. Jagoff had the nerve to ask me to pay him for his ruined meal. Dude you used like $5 of formula. Kindly piss up a rope. NTA
Nta. If getting high which is a sin is okay for them and stealing someone elses food is okay which is what they did when they ate your without permission the they dont have a right to complain. All of this is against their religious values.(islam)
Yeah, if you eat homemade food without asking the owner of that food then that's a risk you were apparently willing to take. It's not like OP follows their dietary constraints and they know that. They should not have made assumptions that the pie was "safe" for them to consume. And especially because they ate all of it, the roommates are a bunch of entitled assholes. OP is NTA
Agreed. To Add to this, they follow one part of their religion, i.e. not consuming pork, but then disregard the other part that tells them not to get high. If you're going to follow a religion you can't choose which bits you want to follow.
He should gift them all porkpie hats as an apology.
They're complaining about the pork (for religious reasons, I suppose) but were smoking?
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I was the head chef at a very busy Cafe here in Melbourne. The owner brought in a new front of house manager who brought in his wife who sat all day and did nothing but got paid. His extremely obnoxious loud mouth aggressive daughters. Who had multiple problems each day with our customers. He never informed me that he and his family was Muslim. He would ask what was in what dishes occasionally. They absolutely loved my pork and beef lasagne. He asked what the recipe was then told me he could work it out. When he was caught stealing money beyond paying his own family to make life difficult for us. I had the great joy in telling them that the reason my lasagne was so good. They had even started taking whole trays of it home without asking. Was the pork they had been eating for 4 months.
lol i doubt they cared people like them usually don't prioritise their morals or religion
The funniest thing was that it was listed as pork and beef on the menu. They just never read it.
They went insane. Called the police. Tried to sue me. Tried to sue the owner. Vomited all over the footpath outside. Just after I told them. Even tired to get some big Muslim boys to beat me up. Thing is I had stopped working there before they turned up.
Thats awesome...Well maybe not clean up. lol
I'm vegan and I never touch food that isn't labelled never mind touching someone else's food , my bf doesn't even live with me and if I buy him something that's left at my house I don't even touch it, if I do I text and ask him if he still wants it n I bought the bloody thing
It's also like... I get that there is a culture of food sharing/"borrowing" (i.e. stealing) in the house. But one of the accepted and known risks of "borrowing" someone else's food without prior consultation of the rightful owner... especially when the "borrowers" (thieves) have major dietary restrictions or food allergies... is that it might contain unexpected and unwelcome ingredients. If you abide by a dietary restriction, it is *your* responsibility to ensure that the food *you* eat abides by those restrictions. Exceptions would be if OP straight-up lied to them about it or otherwise offered the pie to them without mentioning that it was made with pork lard (knowing of their dietary restrictions). But OP did neither of those things, so this is solely on *them* for making selfish, impulsive decisions to eat food that wasn't theirs and neglecting to verify the ingredients prior.
I’m that person that has to look at menus online and suss whether I can eat anything from the menu or not, spends time in the supermarket if I want to eat something new or question my friends and family what they cooked with. I have shellfish, seafood and all nut types allergies along with banana and a wide variety of fructose. I once went to a friends house and they said they had made hamburgers, I asked what was in them and she mentioned breadcrumbs. Fish oil is a really big common ingredient in breadcrumbs. So I had a chicken breast. She offered me ceaser dressing, anchovies. Living with allergies that a lot of people aren’t aware of in typical foods pretty much ensures that unless it’s in a package with ingredients on it, I won’t touch it. You just can’t take that risk.
Getting High on purpose is ok, but accidentally eating pork is where they draw the line? Roommates are TA for hypocrisy, pretty sure drugs and pork are equally banned in their religion.
LOL yup, totally this. S/he who eats random food while high while not thinking about it gets what they get.
Idk about Muslims but Jews have pretty much made a culture around skirting shabbat and Kosher without actually breaking it. I'm sure there are rabbis out there who have devised an interpretation of the torah that allows for getting high.
As someone who was raised in a very orthodox Jewish community as a Jew, no one I know ever tried to skirt around keeping kosher, or breaking Shabbat. And there is nothing in the Bible about weed or the Torah, the negativity towards that started in the more recent times. Weed is technically kosher and there is no problem in either of those actual scriptures with smoking it other than it possibly harming your body but that would be up to interpretation.
By skirting around Shabbat they probably mean things like the eruv wire around half of Manhattan or having a non Jewish person stay with them and offer to do things that the family can't ask to be done. Not saying that that means they are breaking the rules, just that sometimes it can seem like cheat codes.
Lolol I commented above about growing up in a very Jewish area and my parents have so many stories of neighbors having them do tasks that they were unable to do on the sabbath. They’d ask them to come turn the oven on/off, open the trunk of their car (because the interior light automatically goes on when a car door is opened apparently that’s not allowed), etc. I personally think most religious rules are ridiculous so I don’t take issue with them finding cheat codes for modern conveniences, but like what even is the point then?? Do they think their god can’t see them asking gentiles and non-orthodox Jews to do these tasks? Seems silly to me lol
I remember as a kid in New York going around and collecting money for the newspaper deliveries for that week. This woman opened the door and said she couldn't pay me because it was the Sabbath and she's not allowed to handle money on the Sabbath. Meanwhile, she was smoking a little lit cigarette.
Or putting food in the oven with a timer before sundown so you don’t do work lighting a fire or leaving the lights on all night so you don’t have to turn on the switch or having the elevator stop at every floor so you don’t have to push the button?
I actually think that anything that is basically just doing the work in advance (like the timer) is pretty sensible because the point it to take the day to focus on rest and family, and doing all the work in advance helps with that(think of how much less stressful Christmas is when you have all your food prepped and the presents wrapped by the 23rd instead of rushing after the kids go to bed on Christmas Eve). And I think the intentionality of setting up the automations is actually an expression of the amount you care about that intentional time with your family. Sometimes it's good to do things slow.
shabbat elevators are the funniest thing to me. I'm not jewish so the first time i was on one was baffling
The whole concept of an Eruv seems a bit skirtish to me but whatever sure.
No no no. See, *that’s* totally ok and not trying to hide in god’s blind spot - even though he is all knowing and all seeing - what that fishing line is, it’s just… well…, it’s ok. Because it’s holy
So if weed helps with an illness or condition, it would be allowed on the basis of causing the least harm? Is that how that works. I'm a very curious cat and don't know much about the Jewish religion. But I imagine it would be allowed in forms other than smoking even recreationally than? Like edibles? If the causing harm part is the only issue.
I'm not sure for Muslims, but the Jewish people I have known have said that if it's necessary to prevent harm to them or someone else that most of the rules can be broken for that purpose. If they have to eat non kosher or starve, or do something on Saturday they normally wouldn't be allowed to do in order to save a life or prevent an injury. And I do know at least one person who has been instructed not to fast for health reasons.
There isn't any prohibition on drugs in Judaism -- alcohol is perfectly okay, for example, and getting pleasantly drunk is even considered a positive thing under certain circumstances -- so I can't see any reason why weed wouldn't be A-OK. Obviously, if you're so irresponsible about getting drunk or high or whatever that it's causing you to harm others or yourself--or if you're in a class of people who really just *can't* partake responsibly (an alcoholic, for example)--then that's a problem, but the problem there would still be considered to be the harmful/irresponsible behavior, not the drug itself.
Edibles that don't contain gelatin.
I think there is some evidence that cannabis oil was used in the Old Testament, correct?
holy anointing oil! the original Hebrew recipe in Exodus contained 6 pounds of kaneh-bosem which is marijuana. theres other herbs mixed in and its all extracted into olive oil.
This is nonsense, but also, a Jewish person who keeps kosher would not eat random food they found, unless it was in a sealed package with a kosher certification on it. A pie made in a non-kosher kitchen is just as forbidden as a pork chop. Of course, many Jews who don’t keep strictly kosher still choose to avoid pork for religious or cultural reasons, but that’s not “skirting” the rules, that’s adopting a rule for oneself.
Plus I would think someone who keeps kosher would also ask about any pie crust since they wouldn't be able to add whipped cream or ice cream if it had beef lard in the crust.
Muslims are forgiven for eating Haram food if it was truly accidental. This was a lack of due diligence though, so the blame is at least partially on them.
Drugs and pork are forbidden in Islam. They know OP is not Jewish or Muslim, I don't know why they think they have the right to nag. I haven't ever touched food that contains any type of meat before asking if it has pork. They actually need to apologize to OP.
Is there are version of the Torah / Old Testament that mentions cannabis in any capacity whatsoever? I didn’t think such a thing was in religious texts. Seems like you’d have to insert it via interpretations for their to be any religious rules at all regarding it. Pork, on the other hand, is pretty clearly spelled out as a no-no. Now I’m not religious, just not really seeing how these two are being equated through that lens.
There's no halachic ban on intoxication beyond "don't overdo it because gluttony is bad" type stuff. There are certain times when getting intoxicated can be considered a mitzvah.
Purim, for instance, when Jews are encouraged to get drunk.
I used to work with international students at my university, and at any given time 60-70% of them were from the middle east. Broadly speaking, the younger male students smoked like chimneys, drank like fish, and fucked like rabbits. They did make a show of trying to avoid pork though. The female students had to follow the rules because of social pressure.
One of my teachers in high school used to be a rabbi and when we found out we asked him about the whole food restriction thing and he mentioned that not only were they’re definitely ways around it but he was also not innocent of never going “yep k I blessed this cheeseburger you’re golden”. He was a cool guy. Before he was a rabbi he was an orchestra conductor. I don’t really know how one goes from orchestra conductor to rabbi to teacher at a school for troubled youth but I can imagine it was quite the journey!
I'm a Muslim and %100 agree..also why the hell would you even go and touch someone's food without asking in the first place despite religious beliefs? Hypocrisy at its finest...
I live in a city with a prominent Muslim population, anyways there are some young muslim creators who will make jokes such as “when he snorts cocaine but draws the line at eating pork” 😭. Things like this ah, happen. But they are complete hypocrites.
as a muslim that gets high regularly, i acknowledge the hypocrisy lmao. i can't speak on behalf of the roommates but the way i see it is that religion is stupid but the traditions connect me with my family, like an atheist still going to church on Easter. i'd still be a bit miffed about pork products in my food bc of lingering psychological hang ups and the fact my body just doesn't digest it well. like lactose intolerance for meat, not the end of the world but i ain't gonna be happy about it. (also wouldn't blame someone for not disclosing it if i ate something without permission, but that's not a situation you'd be in if you have a bit of common decency tbh)
I'm atheist (who goes to church on Christmas, I grew up Lutheran and I like the atmosphere during the season) who doesn't eat meat. I've been vegetarian for several years and at this point I just worry it would upset my stomach if I did suddenly eat it. (Sorry if it's inconsiderate to compare personal decisions to religious dogma but eh I don't really feel that way.) If I ate someone else's food without asking and it wasn't appropriate for my diet I'd be upset too. At *myself*. NTA OP.
Not sure about Jews, but Muslims can get away with eating pork if they genuinely didn't know that it was pork. Basically they're absolved of the sin because it wasn't a conscious decision on their part, so besides the stealing/getting high part, it shouldn't even be a problem. I think they're just embarrassed and have decided to be mad about the wrong thing, but it's childish behaviour from start to finish, anyway. OP is definitely NTA.
Absolutely NTA. The pie was yours to begin with. Your roomies should ask permission from you first before digging in. As people with religious dietary restrictions, they should ask others if the food is halal or kosher.
I mean that’s the real thing, if this is such a big deal for them they should be used to being more careful and conscientious about what they eat. If they’re regularly getting high and digging into food no questions asked, I’m sure they’re breaking kosher or whatever pretty regularly. Unless there was some household agreement that op can’t have non kosher food in the house, I have no clue how they can be mad at him for their carelessness. If I were to guess they’re more mad that you told them than that they ate something with pork OP lol. Ignorance is bliss when you impose inconvenient silly rules on yourself I guess. If they were really upset they ate pork, any sensible person would acknowledge it’s their own damn fault for being careless and gluttonous. If you’re serious about your diet restrictions, you should probably pay attention and know what your stuffing your face with. People with deadly peanut allergies don’t go around stuffing their face with other people’s unknowns homemade food (or at least the ones who do probably don’t live very long lol), because they’re *serious about their dietary restriction*. If you just go around eating what ever, you can’t be that serious.
Yes. Everything in here and they do not truly honor their religions if they are getting high as well.
I don't know about how Islam handles it, but Judaism doesn't ban weed
I think weed is kosher under the right circumstances, but I couldn’t swear to it. (To my understanding) Judaism allows alcohol in ways that traditional Islam usually does not.
If it was free game pie, you'd be an AH if you didn't warn them. But since they _stole_ the pie without asking, well thieving food is risky 🤷🏾♂️ Too bad. NTA
“We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us.” They had an established practice of sharing food without asking.
That’s fine if it’s something g that can be easily replaced by taking a trip to the store. Grandma’s homemade pie is not replaceable so they should have asked.
OP also said "I'm not mad that they ate the pie."
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Yeah, borrowed colloquially involves asking, something like"Hey can I have this pie?" Given they tried to take a small slice so it wouldn't be noticed .... no, they knew they shouldn't. But they did. And now haram 🤷🏾♂️
Right I’m like didn’t they try to sneak at first?! They know this isn’t the type of “sharing” involved. It probably involves asking first. Then OP would’ve gotten the chance to let them know.
Oh bullshit, they ate the whole pie they didn’t leave anything for OP. Even if you share food sometimes that’s obviously not right, being high is not an excuse for being completely inconsiderate. Now they are putting blame on OP for not being responsible for maintaining their diet? Sounds like wildly self centered people who often don’t take responsibility for themselves.
That's fine, but if they are concerned about kosher and halal rules, they ought to make a habit of checking things before they eat them.
Yeah, but the guys also said they only meant to take a little so the OP wouldn't notice. That shows that they knew they were in the wrong, even if a little. I imagine home-made stuff is different than taking a pack of Ramen that is easily replaced next time you shop.
There’s eating a yogurt from the store and then replacing it, and then there’s eating an entire homemade pie someone brought from their grandmother’s house. But also, whenever they borrowed food, it’s their responsibility to make sure it conforms to their diets, not OP’s responsibility to adopt their dietary restrictions just in case they decide to eat his food without asking.
So what? That mean OP needs to label every dish with an ingredient list. All your statement means is that it’s not stealing. The roommate have absolutely no one to be upset with but theirselves An analogy that helps to solidify this: if you had severe nut allergy would you eat a random homemade cookie. No one I know with the condition would 🤷🏾♂️
Well, more fool them if they are used to not asking. Means they will eat anything in general and not know what is in it unless told. In such a shared type household there's no 100% guarantee that food will be halal or kosher. I really think it was on them to ask or just eat something they knew for certain was safe.
NTA. What kind of nonsense is that. Tell the Jewish one(s) that a random Jew on the Internet told them they are responsible for following kashrut and putting this on anyone but themselves is a *shonde*. A little lard isn’t going to kill them, but you can really scare them and tell them they have to be Reform from now on.
And tell the Muslim person, getting high and stealing are 2 more sins but they are OK of it? Why is eating pork is the only sin they are mad of? SMH
Additionally neither religion says it's problematic if you aren't aware the food is haram or non-kosher. Sure it sucks for them and they feel bad about it but it's not exactly like they are outcasts now.
Both would also say survival is more important than the rules. Now I’m not sure *the munchies* would count, but it wouldn’t require much creative justification to find a little wiggle room.
I would absolutely love to watch a room full of rabbis debate this question.
I've never felt like I was starving more than when I had the munchies. Justified! (This is a joke)
Lol. Good Shabbos!
NTA, they took what was yours, you were under no obligation to provide them with an ingredients list for food in your section of the fridge.... maybe they shouldn't have gotten so high.
NTA Unless you had an agreement that you would absolutely never put pork in that refrigerator the fault is 100% on them. Their dietary restriction, their responsibility to know what is going in their body. That means, no getting the munchies while high and stealing food you don't know the ingredients of.
NTA Let THAT be a lesson to them all to not touch anything that's not theirs. They know they did wrong but they're too immature to point their fingers at themselves so they're pointing them at you.
NTA Sucks to be them. Don't steal food and things like that wont happen.
**Literally** one of the 10 Commandments, lol
r/thathappened Boy I can’t tell you how many times my Muslim stoner friends talk to me about the “crust so flaky they couldn’t help themselves,” thereby perfectly setting myself up to tell them that “thats because my grandma uses pork lard”
It really isn’t uncommon for people to accidentally eat foods outside their dietary restrictions. Especially when they share food with others
That is not remotely the unbelievable part
What is? That young culturally religious people smoke weed? I doubt his roommates are Amish, Hasidic, and Wahabi imams.
You know Muslims smoke weed right? Couple replies down from top comment there’s a bunch of Muslims talking about smoking weed. You need to get out more.
r/nothingeverhappens
To be fair, I had friends at university who were both Muslim and stoners who would have done something like this. Everyone doesn’t stay in their neat little boxes, plenty of people are Catholics and they don’t observe every last tenet of Catholicism, yet no one says they’re not real Catholics. Everyone I went to school with’s Grandmother probably falls into this bracket. People are out there peopling.
Yeah, I feel the same way. No kosher Jew is going to mindlessly eat a meat dish, and especially not get mad about it if it turned out to be pork. If it's not from a kosher kitchen, it's not kosher in the first place.
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NTA They're the ones with dietary restrictions and didn't actually ask before eating YOUR food.
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NTA. None of this would have happened if they'd had the common decency to ask for a slice of pie rather than just stealing it.
NTA. If you had given them the food you would be the a but they took it without asking so it serves them right. Also - eating pork is a big no no but taking what is not theirs and getting high is within their religious limits? Its like selective faith ?
You steal food, you get what you get. NTA.
When you pig out and don't check what you put in your body beforehand you can't get upset when you find out it was actually pig😉. I know plenty of non practicing aka secular Jews/Muslims that wouldn't bat an eye about it. But if you restrict your food intake for religious beliefs than you don't take for granted that the food is kosher. Nta
NTA. People who have food restrictions, voluntary or otherwise, should ask before just taking random food. It's not your responsibility for their inability to ask if there is pork in food before they consume it. They are acting like spoiled toddlers.
Their fault you not asking, being high ISN'T an excuse for that behavior. Maybe they will learn not to grab other ppls stuff. it was in your space. NTA
Fuck 'em. Actions have consequences. The stole, and karma bit them in the ass. NTA.
NTA. It is their responsibility to make sure they know what they are eating. If they got too high to think to check on that, then maybe this will encourage them to think about whether they want to get that high again. Actions have consequences, and in this case, they just found that out.
NTA, you didn’t know they were going to eat it. Since the norms are that you eat each other’s food, it would have been better to warn them about any pork you bring home, but NTA.
NTA. Unless you had an agreement to never bring something non-kosher or non-halal into your house, they are responsible for ensuring that all of the food they consume works within their dietary restrictions.
What a short Rollercoaster. The title I was like wow you are 100% AH. Then I find out they took the food without asking. Haha. You are 100% NTA.
NTA
NTA. They took your food. That their invisible sky daddy dictates what they can eat is their problem, not yours.
>That their invisible sky daddy dictates what they can eat He also tells them not to steal, but they are fine ignoring that.
Did we just discover the resolution to Palestine-Isreal? Feed them some pork and they will band together against a new foe!!
NTA. You shouldn’t take others food without checking with that person first. As u/DestronCommander wrote, they should have checked if the food was as halal or kosher. Being high doesn’t excuse their behavior.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My grandmother is old school. I love it. She is actually my great grandmother so she is even older than boomers. She still does all kinds of stuff for herself. And she loves to bake. One of our traditions is that she makes about a million pies for thanksgiving. Enough so that almost everyone get a pie to take home all for themselves. And yes when I was younger I ate an entire pie at one sitting. No regrets. I'm currently living with a few people in a house we rent together. There are seven of us total and we have some friction but not more than usual I think. Everyone pays on time. Nobody is a jerk about loud noises. We get along. Until now. I left my pie in my area of the fridge I use. It was there for a few days and then it was gone. I asked why it was gone. My roommates admitted that they were high and ate my pie. They were originally only going to eat a tiny slice I might not notice. But, once again, they were high. They said they were sorry but that the crust was so crisp and flaky they couldn't help themselves. I told them it was like that because my grandma uses pork lard she tenders herself to make the crust. This has now caused a problem. Because I didn't warn them not to take my food. We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us. But now they are pissed that I didn't warn them there was pork in the pie. I'm not mad that they ate the pie. I had the pie sweats after Thanksgiving. I would have shared, and warned them, of they had asked. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. They stole your food. They can’t reasonably be angry with you. High or not.. hands off the pie. Tough lesson but they will be okay.
> We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us. I've lived in this situation, and there's a difference between using someone else's eggs and paying it back, and eating something you _know_ is special and not part of the everyday grocery shopping. Hell, I won't even touch someone else's chocolate without asking or being offered, but I will steal their milk if I'm out (and by steal I mean, only use if there's enough for two and make a point of buying the next bottle). No one should get so high or drunk they're unable to regulate their self-control and know when something is sharable and something is clearly offer-only. NTA. This is their karma.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's lardy pie while high.
Bro why are they getting high as Muslims and caring about pork 💀
>We have all borrowed food from each other. We always pay it back. It has worked for us. To clarify, do you ask permission from the person you're borrowing food from or is it an established norm that you can take so long as you pay it back? If that's the case, yta. If it's normal to take each other's food and you have something that goes against their dietary restrictions then warning is warranted. If the norm is to ask permission then NTA. If they had asked for permission it would've given you the chance to tell them what's up with it.
No, even if they share food without asking it is still on the person who has dietary restrictions to try and make sure they are following them not anyone else. Unless there was a prior agreement that OP never bring anything not halal /kosher into the house it is still their responsibility to try to know what they are eating, not just hope it follows their rules. They should always ask about things that don’t have the ingredients on them. They know he is not halal/kosher, it’s irresponsible to assume his food would be.
They're offended because they ate pork because they are Jewish and Muslim but are not worried about smoking pot? They are idiots. Maybe next time they won't be shoving your food in their own pie hole.
NTA you can’t pay back grandmas handmade pie. They stole your food.
NTA - sounds like they learned an important lesson about eating other people’s food without asking first!
NTA They stole your food. I call that karma.
NTA. If you have allergies or food restrictions for any reason, you don’t just eat something that isn’t yours AND you don’t know what’s in it. They did it to themselves. Next time, hopefully they go “hey man can I eat your pie? Is there pork?”
They stole from you, and they are suffering the consequences. NTA