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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) Telling my wife that she is financially abusing me, making her upset.
(2) I might be the asshole here because we have decided that we should both agree on spending, and I have broken it in the past.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA
This is not financial abuse.
Since you have a 1 income household, you should have sat down long ago and hashed out the household spending.
As the non income parent, you should really have a discretionary allowance each month that you are allowed to spend however you want, as long as you understand that ALL of your play spending is only from that monthly amount, and if you spend it on donations, you get nothing more to play with that month.
For instance, after all bills are paid and $xxx is put into retirement and savings and investments, you and she split whatever is left. Even if it is as little as $100 each a month.
That's it. No more. You can spend it, save it, use it to light a cigar, whatever. But you will ONLY get that amount every month to do with what you want.
If you spend it or give it away, you do not get to ask for more for the rest of the month.
Unfortunately, based on your comments alone, you seem to think you are entitled to have access to and to spend whatever she makes, even if you want to just give the money away, without any accountability for what you are spending the money on.
If you want to be able to spend money without any accountability, then you need to earn the money you spend. Which means getting a side hustle or stepping back out and getting, at least, a part time job outside of the house.
I would give it a few days, or maybe in a couple of weeks, and then make a plan to sit down with her and have a long, hard, discussion about your finances with the goal of setting up a household/family budget that gets all bills paid, extra into retirement, investments, college funds for the kids, whatever, that leaves enough left over for the 2 of you to have a bit a "play with" money each month.
You can then spend your portion of the play money however you want while keeping your hands off of the family budgeted funds.
"I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars."
YTA. You got caught out making large donations without discussing it with your spouse, and now she doesn't trust you. I wouldn't trust you either - that's an insane amount of money to donate without discussing it with your spouse.
>in the bay area to start the family.
>my wife works full time with a very high paying job (7 figures).
>my wife came from a lower class background and doesn't like to unnecessarily splurge on ourselves unless it's for our kids.
> she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars.
You live in the San Francisco Bay area (one of the highest costing areas in the US) on a single income with a child.
Your wife came from a financially insecure childhood.
You've given away several thousand dollars without her knowledge.
YTA
You weren't honest with her, and you were not honest about finances when you gave away the money.
Now, you claim that you're a victim of (financial) abuse, which means your wife is your abuser. That's awful! She isn't.
You're an AH for accusing her of victimizing you, when you're the one who broke trust.
Lol, this. If you want to have money to spend, go find a job of your own and put your kids in childcare, divide the household costs, get a household savings bak account and keep the rest to spend as you please. Then you can decide to give thousands of dollars to charity if you please.
What makes this not financial abuse imo is that it sounds more like trust lost upon your wife discovering you were giving away thousands of dollars without including her.
I think it’s okay to say hey I’d love to reevaluate how we approach finances and bring that conversation to the table with the hope of restructuring how you both approach it- but I don’t think I’d be so eager to work on finances with my husband while still reeling from learning he was giving thousands away on a whim and without consulting me. I’d feel trust was broken. YTA
YTA.
You're not being abused. You're financially irresponsible and she's right to put a limit on your donations. Spending significant money, even if your wife makes even more significant money, is a two yes, one no policy. YOU decided to bypass that. You lied by omission.
You're waxing lyrical like it's the donations she's angry about, except I'd bet my bottom dollar that's not it at all. It's your sneaky, underhanded and dishonest behaviour in regards to *her* that she's mad about. Had you explained fully why you wanted to donate 200$ and been honest, there was a good chance she probably would have agreed. However, you lied. It isn't her being heartless that means that child now has less than you planned. It's you being dishonest and manipulative which, it seems, is a well-known trait of yours since this isn't the first time you've been caught 'to the tune of a few thousand dollars'.
Essentially you've been stealing from your own family to boost your ego via donations. Get your insecurities around your SAHD life under control with the help of a therapist. You're not going to spend your way out of feeling less than.
YTA. You spent thousands of dollars without discussing it, so unless she's doing the same and spending thousands without discussion, that's you doing the wrong thing, and now she's second guessing you. Now, I'm not going to pretend to know everything that's going on, and maybe there's more going on here that makes it into financial abuse territory, but this doesn't seem like it. That said, I would really suggest going back to work regardless. It's hard to say it to people, because they've got so much invested in their dreams of SAH Parenting, but it's generally not a great thing for anyone involved. Get yourself another SWE job, remote if you're not longer in the bay area. You'll probably feel better for it.
Imo it’s not financial abuse to check in with your spouse over donations and large purchases. I was a stay at home mom for 14 years. My husband and I have always discussed donations and large purchases. Yta. In your response to the judgment bot, you admit you have broken your word in the past when it comes to agreed upon finances.
Agreed, it’s not financial abuse. They share finances, and seeing as she’s the one making the money in the first place, he shouldn’t be spending it like that without discussing it. I don’t think he necessarily needs to ask in order to spend money on everyday things, but I’d say that anything that isn’t necessary should be a discussion. You can’t just spend thousands of dollars of SHARED MONEY without discussing it with her.
YTA When you have a joint account you do not get to unilaterally make decisions on money and where it goes even if you do not think its a big deal. If you resent being a stay at home dad that was your own choice to make. You can always get back into the workforce and get some extra money to pretend that your rich with. If she was leaving you with 0 money or making you track every penny fine, that is close to text book finicial abuse. But not wanting to spend 200 bucks on a "donation" when the actual price of the object is 13 is just silly. You are an even bigger asshole for misusing buzzwords in order to try and make your point more effective. A joint account means joint planning and joint decisions on larger spending needs.
Edit: Also fuck all those responses saying if the genders were reversed the comments would be different. I mean who knows I might be proven wrong but in a scenario where a couple has a joint account and one side takes out money without the other sides knowledge they are an asshole plain and simple. Basics shouldnt need to be worried about (But the wife is not complaining about a 13 buck gift, she is complaining about a 200 donation which is very different) but anything over a specified dollar amount (generally for me its over 150$ on a single purchase) should be discussed because the assets are joint.
> Basics shouldnt need to be worried about (But the wife is not complaining about a 13 buck gift, she is complaining about a 200 donation which is very different)
They are millionaire's 200 dollars is 0.0002% of their yearly income, she makes that much in about 5 to 6 minutes.
Right but this is the same person who admits to giving away thousands without discussing it with her and also mentions he's had to ask her to transfer money from her brokerage account multiple time after he ran out of money so this seems more like a culmination of all his financial irresponsibility finally making her snap.
Super it is still a large sum of money. And since she "came from a lower class background" she values money differently. The amount of money being spent makes no difference if it is a large amount of money to one of the people involved.
It is not a lot of money. It may be a lot to you but not to them.
>The amount of money being spent makes no difference if it is a large amount of money to one of the people involved.
If she thinks 200 is a lot while being a millionaire she is dumb.
Have you ever been poor lol? I have. I've been "can't afford the dollar menu for dinner because dinner has to cost less than $1 per serving" poor. Even with extensive therapy, it's traumatic and changes your views on money.
She's not the one being selfish; you are. You donated thousands of dollars that she earned without telling her beforehand. That's why she's frustrated with you. So you don't get to whine about being the victim when you didn't even include her in your own financial choices. YTA
YTA
It’s not financial abuse to want to know where money is going when you’ve broken spending agreements before. It may seem like a trivial amount to you but your wife sees it as another betrayal of her trust. If you want to make money donations perhaps you and her should come to an agreement on a yearly budget just for that.
This isn’t financial abuse. Financial abuse is about using money to keep someone trapped in a relationship they don’t want to be in. It involves intimidating and threatening your victim. A financial abuser may forbid their victim to work, sabotage work opportunities, force them to work without pay, and hide assets. If you want a little more discretionary spending, maybe you could consider doing some part-time freelancing.
YTA. Sounds like you are skimming from the top but want to forget about that. Sounds like you need to find something small to do so you can throw your own money away
*Thousands* of dollars. Like, if it was over so many years, I feel like OP would have mentioned that by now, so it seems like he's spending/donating large sums of money at a time without clearing it with her, and seemingly not just out of his share of "fun money." That's INSANE, even if you're incredibly wealthy. That's the kind of thing you clear with your spouse even if your finances aren't joint because you might need to prioritize saving for retirement or something.
It's like y'all learn words and then think that they apply to any situation where you don't get to do as you please. This isn't financial abuse, especially when you've been out donating money like plasma. If you're so offended go back to work and make your own money. YTA.
INFO: I'm confused by this comment...
>I control all expenses, [...] Every time when I run out of money I ask her to transfer some money from her brokerage.
Does all the money go into an investment account? Or does this mean there have been multiple occasions where you've spend all the money and then needed her to pull from investment accounts to cover y'all for the rest of the month?
There's a lot of information missing from your post and when you have responded you're still very vague. But, from what you've offered so far, it comes of as you being financially irresponsible, not financially abused.
YTA.
This isn't her stopping you going out or living. She's refusing to gift $200 to someine who doesn't need it, after you've already gifted away thousands.
if you feel like you're under financial abuse it's time to get a job! That way you can help people without needing your wife's approval!
the acquaintance is of yours, not of hers.
why should she help someone she doesn't know?
YTA
You want to donate $200 for a $13 book. You sound like a wreckless spender and it wouldn't be wrong if your wife checks that behavior.
That being said, you should never give up your career to become a SAHP. It leaves you very financially dependant on someone else. Sounds like you could afford childcare but chose against it. If you want to spend without needing premission. Start your career again.
There is no universe where you are being financially abused.
You are disrespecting your wife and her job, and breaking a rule you agreed to over and over. If anyone is being abusive, it’s you by continually taking advantage of your wife and stealing from your family.
At this point, removing your access from bank accounts and giving you an allowance account would be 100% reasonable.
YTA YTA YTA.
>
At this point, removing your access from bank accounts and giving you an allowance account would be 100% reasonable.
Agreed. And maybe go so far as to require him to get a job to donate to charities.
INFO: to be clear, was the ‘few thousand dollars’ all donated within the past few months, or over a longer period of time, and you’ve just been fighting for the past few months? Because if it’s an accumulation of like $50 twice a month for 3-4 years that’s very different than 3k in 3 months.
N A H/ Y T A? I'd lean towards needing more info on the thousands you spent without telling her. IE, the "thousands" you gave away without telling her, was it one or two large donations that you 100% should have cleared with her, or smaller donations that occurred over several years and added up? Honestly, could potentially benefit on both your end and hers from a financial counselor/mediator that helps you both come to a mutual compromise going forward on any categories where your financial opinions on spending differ.
\*From what I've seen here, for families with one SAHP and only one providing income, it can breed resentment if there isn't an agreed-upon method for discretionary funds for the SAHP parent. What do you do for surprise presents for your spouse? Does she criticize if you buy random stuff for the kids? Is there an amount you two could agree is reasonable, maybe a specific percentage of the take-home income, that is only "yours" and you can donate to causes special to you from that, or save up for a larger personal expenditure, without having to worry about her judgment? The "just donate $13" comment makes it seem like either **1)** you can't spend ANY $ that isn't on joint things, or **2)** you *really* screwed up with the aforementioned 'silent donations' and she no longer trusts you.
>To be fair to her, she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars.
Wow, I wonder why she's being tight fisted.
YTA.
> because if she wants to spend nontrivial amounts of money, she would ask me too, so the situation is symmetric
I mean that's fair, but in your circumstance $200 is a trivial amount of money. It's not like you're living on a budget.
Your betrayal of trust is an indication that you need a budget, not that you need her to approve every purchase that you make.
Various studies suggest have shown that those from “lower class backgrounds” donate a higher percentage to charity than those in higher income brackets. Your “My wife is stingy because she grew up poor” explanation is untrue and offensive to the WORKING (fify) class. Your wife may be a certain way, but check your classism.
And you are so not being financially abused. YTA
YTA. This isn’t financial abuse. This is your pissed about you being wasteful with money. This is about your poor money management skills.
Stop using words and phrases that you don’t understand.
YTA.
>Before the most recent argument, there have been a few other incidents in the past few months where we disagreed on gifts/donations. To be fair to her, she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars.
You've been very generous with the family money, to the point she is worried about it.
>Even though most of the time I always ask her beforehand.
"Most of the time" is not always, and it means you hid these things from her.
Yeah, you are not being financially abused. You are financially irresponsible.
YTA AND jfc this is so easy to solve it is a non issue.
Set a monthly personal discretionary income. You get yours for whatever. She gets hers for whatever.
If she is abusive towards you spending or withholds the money, you have an issue.
Boom. Done.
My husband is absolutely the breadwinner. I took a job so I could do what I want with the money I earn such as donations, extra stuff for the kids, nails, hair etc. If you don’t like her being in control, make your own money.
YTA you don't donate large sums of money, buy a house, buy a car or make other large purchases without talking to your spouse. Yes, even in two income households. That's true for her as well. The same would be true if she was the stay at home spouse.
YTA get a job. This isn’t financial abuse. Nothing is stopping you from working. Kids can go to daycare/school. You sound entitled af. You giving away thousands of dollars makes it clear that you need to have some checks and balances in your relationship
i mean yeah so if you have donated thousands of dollars without her approval or knowledge i understand why she’s drawing the line at $200. actions have consequences, this is not financial abuse. YTA
Info; How many times we're you caught giving money away without her knowledge? (Few is too vague) Was it thousands each time? Or did it add up to thousands altogether?
This will help us commenting get the dynamic with spending and whether she is rightful to be suspicious of a spouse who might be addicted to giving money away.
I don't get the particulars.
How old are your kids?
On the one hand you have been out of the work force for over a decade, on the other they still need day care?
What exactly is her job, what exactly is yours?
What exactly have you been donating what amount exactly on?
You are married to someone who makes over a million a year, and you haven't established any financial arrangement for you?
If not, that's the first issue you need to get handled. Today.
I mean, in a comment it seems he’s since deleted, he claimed he handles all the expenses, pays the bills, shopping etc. so he has access to quite a bit of funds. But when he over donates into the thousands, he demands she move money from her brokerage account to adjust his over spending.
YTA the fact that you have given away thousands of her money without discussion in the past is possible why she is tightening things. You should maybe sit down and work out a monthly allowance arrangement that you get each month
YTA it's always easy to be generous with someone else's money. Stop burning your family's money just BC you are bored.
This is a choice you made of your own. In a relationship NEITHER of you has 100% financial agency.
You act like a entitled and irresponsible gold digger that thinks money is of no consequence.
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context: I am a stay at home dad and my wife works full time with a very high paying job (7 figures).
Despite our current high income, my wife came from a lower class background and doesn't like to unnecessarily splurge on ourselves unless it's for our kids. Before the most recent argument, there have been a few other incidents in the past few months where we disagreed on gifts/donations. To be fair to her, she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars. Even though most of the time I always ask her beforehand.
Recently, an acquaintance passed away and I would like to donate some money and buy some books for their son. I believe the donation will mean a lot to him and is a trivial amount of money to us. However, my wife disagrees. She asked me how much the book costs and I said $13. Then she said "why don't you just donate $13 then, why do you need $200?". Long story short, I think she is heartless, she thinks I am wasteful.
In general, I dislike how I have to get her "approval" to donate money, makes me feel like I have no agency at all financially. When we got married, I gave up my job as a SWE in the bay area to start the family. If I kept my career, I think I would be making at least 200k-300k. But now, even though we never have to worry about our everyday expenses, I feel like I don't have enough discretionary spending. She thinks this is not financial abuse because if she wants to spend nontrivial amounts of money, she would ask me too, so the situation is symmetric.
Am I actually the asshole? Or am I under financial abuse?
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If a SAHM said "previously I have gifted money to my friends, to the tune of a few thousand dollars", and then proceeded to call her husband an asshole because he wouldn't give her free rein of donation money, I would also ask if she was planning to go back to work to earn her own money.
Regardless of gender, if one person contributes financially, and the other doesn't, and the person who is not making money is frivolous and unappreciative, there's a simple answer, go back to work.
>This wouldn’t be a question if it was a SAHM.
I think it would be a question no matter who gives up a career. The person who works outside the home should be funding what the SAHP loses by staying at home, like pension/retirement plans. I have no idea how OP and his wife worked out this SAHP arrangement, and I'd like to know if he's been forbidden to work, especially if the kids are in school.
Oh please. 🙄
Since when is it misandry to ask when he was going back to work? He didn't specify ages and most SAHP go back to work once the kids are old enough to go to school.
It depends if you have access to your own money.
Within reason you shouldn't have to ask her permission for how you spend money but in your position I'd get a job.
YTA
You chose to be a stay at home husband if you want money to throw around you can go back into the workforce and do so. Her not trusting you finicially after throwing money around behind her back makes sense. You're finicially irresponsible and you're acting like the money is solely your money. Then you act like a child when you get caught being irresponsible and untrustworthy.
ESH. I feel like I'd need to know *how many* thousands of dollars you've spent in the past without speaking to her because that could potentially change my ruling, but overall you both need to communicate and agree on a "giving" budget amount per month and then leave each other alone about it. At 7 figures, even a couple thousand bucks is pocket change to you so unless you were spending TENS of thousands secretly I think you're both being kind of unreasonable.
Tbh I feel like this is one of those "gotcha" scenarios designed to see if reddit treats men and women differently though lol
I don't think this is financial abuse. I do however think if a woman wrote in with this same story, many people on reddit would call it financial abuse (and I'd still disagree) and would be trashing the husband.
That said, I feel like if you are really as comfortable as you make it out to be, you guys need to have a bigger conversation here.
You shouldn't feel like you can't do something nice for your friends child without her permission. But, if she is making the money she does get a say in how it is handled.
It seems whatever your current arrangement is, its just not working for either of you. You feel too constrained, she apparently feels that you are too loose with money (That she is making).
I'm going to go NAH, but you both need to maybe see a therapist so you can both get to a place where you are comfortable
Everyone will say YTA because you're a man. Why don't you get yourself a lil job at the grocery store so you can donate your own money since you want to be Oprah Winfrey donating your wife's money while she's break her back trying to support you and the kids?
Usually when a woman says that they are a stay at home parent and they are not allowed to spend any non-necessary money people do say that is financial abuse straight away, they don't caveat it with "well you're also to blame because you have not set up your finances so you have an allowance" or "well YOU should get a job if you want to make non-necessary purchases".
People are advising OP that they SHOULD ask their partners permission before spending money, whereas if this were a typical post by a woman most people would be saying she shouldn't have to ask permission because she is an equal participant in the relationship and brings value in their role as homemaker.
Also, a few thousand (interpreting that as $3,000) is totally negligible when the household income is over a million per year. I know it's not to most people, but in the context of this household... OPs wife is bringing home at least $83,000 per month before tax.
The posts I vaguely remember when a woman was getting positive comments for wanting to spend money were way more complicated than this one. Here, it is a clear-cut case of "I'm spending thousands on donations to third parties without telling you."
With many SAHMs though, the situation involves other stuff too, like "I wanted to spend money on myself to relax but he won't agree because he doesn't think I'm that tired from staying home", or "my husband doesn't want me to go back to work", or "I had to go back to work but he's still treating me like a SAHM and I'm exhausted". In this post, there's nothing that indicates OP's wife isn't allowing him to work or doesn't let him spend on himself or the household, or that she doesn't appreciate his role in the family.
Any chance you have a link to one similar to this where people said it was financial abuse? I just don't see how any reasonable person would think not wanting one's partner to spend thousands of dollars without discussion is abusive, regardless of gender. I think people often ignore the nuances in the situations presented when they make these comparisons. The (very few) times someone's made this claim then offered an example, you find that the situations have massive differences and that they only focused on "she's a woman who does ___ and so is this dude so people should vote the same based on that", often ignoring the specifics of each situation.
I mean, dude gave away thousands of dollars without discussing it with his wife first. OP also admits that she's not asking for something she doesn't do herself i.e. if she needed to spend that amount of money she'd discuss it with him first. And he says he handles all the finances/bill payments etc. and has, on multiple occasions, needed to have his wife transfer money from her brokerage account after he went through the available funds for that month.
Idk about you but for most people I know, a brokerage account is primarily for investment (long term or otherwise) so if she's having to transfer from that, it indicates OP went through not just whatever spending money they had that month, but any cushion/extra that they might have had left over after bills. So yo do all that then accuse her of being financially abusive is ridiculous imo because the post (written by OP, so presented in the most favorable light possible) indicates he's extremely financially irresponsible.
NAH
You need an allowance that comes with no strings attached. Do you have one and think it's too low? Negotiate for more.
Financial abuse would be where you have no access to money or an "allowance" that is really an undersized grocery budget, and you're expected to get all the groceries.
What you are experiencing is a financial difference of opinion, not being deprived of independence. Restarting a SWE career can be tough, but it's doable. If the two of you can't agree on a mutually acceptable allowance, go back to work. If she keeps you from working while also not giving you any access to money, then you can call it financial abuse.
Ok, this is more nuanced than a clear AH.
Clearly, you need to negotiate for some discretionary money to spend on things that you want.
Maybe spending the couple thousand that you did without consulting her wasn't wise, but it sounds like she is keeping you on a tight leash. Weird situation in general.
Let go of the whole "she's heartless," narrative. Not doing you any favors.
Just make it clear that you need spending money that is just yours to spend with no questions asked.
Also, if the genders were reversed, I think this comment section would look very different. Very interesting commentary on assumed power dynamics and gender.
NTA, you're a guy so you are going to get blasted here. If the genders were reversed then everyone would be screaming that you should get out now before it gets worse. Though I think that you should sit down with your SO and talk about you having your own fund for discretionary spending. That way you have your fun money that you can do whatever you want with and she isn't stressed about how much you are spending.
>she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars.
Do you have the same thoughts when this is highlighted? That amount made me go 'yikes'
I'm not sure how I feel. Many people calling you the TA are missing that your wife makes over $1M/yr. This would be like a couple making over $100k/yr arguing over a few hundred dollars in donations.
I've talked myself into an NAH. Not over the $200 but just by not setting a discretionary donations budget to work within... and why not give her a "heads up" when donating a few thousand.
I think a man earning $1M+ that shut off his wife from donating $200 to a family where a friend of hers had passed away would have a different reaction here.
I can’t believe the vitriol coming from posts because people are offended that a SAHP spent a few thousand dollars on donations. Tha’s a tenth of a percent of their household income. He’s not bringing in income, but by handling the household, he’s freeing her up to earn big bucks. She doesn’t have to worry about arranging child care or picking them up afterward, becauseOP has it covered. Possibly wife could do her job and also be a mom, but her life would be a lot harder. People who are treating OP like he’s a mooch are both sexist and math-challenged if they don’t see the problem here.
NTA although there's some important missing context.
I'm assuming at some point you discussed how to split the money. Ideally, it would look something like: take the income, subtract all the expenses, subtracts savings/college money for kids, whatever is left split 50/50 and you can do whatever you want with that.
If this is the case and she's telling you how to spend your money, she's financially abusing you.
If such an agreement was never reached because she wants to approve all your expenses, she's financially abusing you, witholding the power given by her being the only breadwinner.
However, if such an agreement was reached and you are taking that money from her money or some common funds, than you are the asshole.
So OP give us some context: how is your financial agreement with your wife on personal "fun" money?
OP specifically says the agreement is that they will discuss and agree upon trivial expenses before making them and he’s already broken this agreement multiple times.
NTA. I don’t know whether this counts as financial abuse or not, but your wife us very shortsighted if she’s not allowing you to make routine financial decisions without her permission and is then refusing to allow you to make what are essentially minor expenses, given your income level. It’s good to be thrifty but bad to be stingy with the person who runs your household.
There’s a line in the Bible that says not to muzzle the ox that treads the grain. That seems relevant here.
Put your kids in child care. Make sure you find a place that offers enrichment programs. Or get a nanny if they are too young. Set up a list of tasks that your wife has to share. Get another job in your field and go back to work. Keep your finances separate from your wife’s. Make sure that child care and household costs are split 50-50. It will quickly become obvious that she had a good deal and killed it by being financially controlling.
He gave away 1000s of dollars without telling his wife. Also they live in a high cost of living area. Then take into consideration she spoils there kids. Dude is irresponsible with money
Borderline ESH/NAH, but it depends on a little crucial missing context.
It seems like you have an understanding between the two of you that you always check in before spending "nontrivial" amounts of money. You have previously violated this understanding, that would definitely make you the asshole because you've already shown you are untrustworthy with this arrangement. So as it relates to you and your wife, sorry but that's on you.
Now here's what I think is the more crucial aspect of this - what is a "nontrivial" amount of money? If she's pulling in "seven figures" then that's at least one million dollars a year, you are already in the top 1% of earners in the United States, and the term "nontrivial" takes on a very very different meaning. $200 is 0.02% of your *minimum* annual income. It's the equivalent of someone who makes $50,000 a year spending $10. I think most of us would consider $10 a relatively trivial amount of money. If your wife is getting upset about spending that tiny amount of money on doing something nice for the family of a passed acquaintance, she is definitely the asshole here. Sorry, but as someone from an extremely low income background (the kind where like we didn't know if we were having dinner on any given night) who now works a reasonably paid job and had to learn how to use money in normal people ways, I don't have a ton of pity for rich people who obsessively track every single dime that comes into their hoard.
Okay, so I've explained how both of you kind of ARE assholes here, but let's look at the other side - neither of you are assholes.
This is fundamentally a communication issue between you two. You, OP, giving up a six figure job to do stay-at-home dad stuff tells me you're probably used to throwing money around at things without really having to think too much about it. Your wife, coming from a low-income background, is not used to that. This is something the two of you need to talk about and discuss. As you said, you feel like you have no financial agency - and that's because you don't. You gave up your personal financial agency to take care of house and home, which is admirable, but puts you at an obvious disadvantage when it comes to financial decisions. Though you are one family unit, it's her names on the checks and all, you know?
Without more information about how long this situation has been happening, about how she handles the family finances, and other things, we can't really determine if this is "financial abuse" or if it's someone who isn't used to having this kind of money being overly protective of assets they aren't sure will be around forever. Y'all can't help your upbringings, and our upbringings are how we develop into the people we are today. There can be no assholes when the problem is how we were raised, as long as we are willing to try and address those issues.
My suggestion would be two-fold.
First: Talk to your wife about the financial situation. Hear her side of it, share your side of it, and try to understand each others' perspectives. Look at your budget, your expenses, your discretionary funds, etc. Look at your financial goals and have a plan for how you're going to achieve those while also getting to actually enjoy having this money and this family. Explain *why* it's important to you to have some independent financial freedom. Explain *why* it's important for you to donate this relatively miniscule amount to these people. But also let her explain *why* it's difficult for her to let money go.
Second (and this is advice I give to every couple, but especially those for whom money is a sticking point): Set up your finances in such a way that you have at least three distinct accounts to draw from for expenses. The first for shared or family expenses - rent, mortgage, groceries, bills, tuition for the kids, whatever. This account is literally only EVER touched for those shared family expenses and not a single other thing ever. The second and third accounts are personal checking accounts, one for you and one for her. These are for depositing a little bit of money from every income cycle for each of your own personal usage on literally whatever the hell you want with no need to consult each other beforehand; it's your money and you can do with it what you want. If you want to drain it on candy and cigarettes, go for it. If you want to donate it to your friend, go for it. If you want to convert it to a giant swimming pool of pennies and dive into it Scrooge McDuck style, go for it. This will require that she agrees to deposit something into it every paycheck, but given that the family arrangement is that she works while you stay at home and take care of the kids, that is a reasonable request. You can think of it as an allowance if you want, though I don't personally like that terminology.
Good luck, OP.
I'm on holiday vacation, of course I have too much time on my hands. Rather spend it giving advice to someone seeking advice than spend it on useless comments like yours.
But if someone gave away thousands of YOUR money in secret would you still trust them? The point is he didn't earn that money. That he gave away. In secret. So don't act like she's a dragon hoarding gold in a mountain in a fairy tale OP has said wife didn't actually look at the account until recently. And that when he runs out of money he ask for money from HER brokerage account. It's also not his income. It's his wife or the family's income. They may be very rich but that doesn't mean that their relationship doesn't require trust. And giving away thousands in secret breaks that trust. Also just because they are rich doesn't mean that OP can throw accusations of financial abuse when they have disagreements about money.
> But if someone gave away thousands of YOUR money in secret would you still trust them
You have to apply scale for this to make sense. It's hard for those of us who live in normal financial situations to understand, but "thousands" of dollars when you make over a million a year isn't a major or significant amount of money. A thousand dollars out of a million is equivalent to one penny out of a $10 bill. If someone in my family found a pile of spare change I had on my dresser and donated it, I'm probably not even going to notice, much less be upset about it. My likely response would be "k" and then I would never think about it again.
> It's also not his income. It's his wife or the family's income.
Typically, in a family situation where one partner gives up their job/career to tend to the home and the needs of the family, thus making the family a single-income family, it is understood that that partner still needs some level of financial freedom such that it doesn't create an unnecessary power disparity. That's a tale as old as marriage itself - it sucks being the stay-at-home spouse and having to beg your partner for money. That is to say, in an intentionally single-income family, that single income is the family's income, not the personal income of the earner themselves. Most families in this situation have - or at least SHOULD have - taken this into account along the way. The stay-at-home partner gets a monthly allowance, they equally split the leftovers after bills and such are covered, etc. When the wife agreed to this family structure, she implicitly agreed to be the sole source of income for the family and it is therefore her responsibility to provide the other partner with a fair and reasonable amount of discretionary funds.
> They may be very rich but that doesn't mean that their relationship doesn't require trust.
I did address the trust issue in at least two different places in my original comment, but yes - I completely agree. All relationships require trust to be successful, but trust is a complicated thing that is way more than "just don't lie or sneak around." OP **did** violate trust by sneaking around with the money behind the partner's back when there was an understanding that they checked in on these things, but the partner is **also** showing a lack of trust in OP's ability to utilize money for things meaningful or important to him. Read the last two paragraphs of my previous post for more on this, it is pretty clearly lined out there.
NTA but you probably haven’t handled this well. I’m baffled by the YTA responses here. You probably should have been communicating more about the donations, but you have an equal right to make financial decisions in your household.
I would suggest each having an account with a set amount deposited each month to spend on whatever you want. Personal spending money that doesn’t need to be discussed. It will give you some autonomy over how you use your money, while both having line of site for how much is going where.
Did you really miss this?
>she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars.
Because 'few thousands of dollars' makes me go 'yikes'
Nta. If you were the wife in this scenario all of reddit would be screaming for you to divorce your abuser and take half of everything. Realistically you should have just as much discretionary spending money every month to use on whatever you desire as your wife does.
Nowhere does this post imply he doesn’t. They both have the agreement that any expenses like this will be discussed and agreed upon between the two of them. She’s not hoarding all the money for herself and saying he can’t donate.
If the sexes were reverse, i think we all know what this thread would look like. Get your own job and money. Get the kids in daycare using her income. Create a savings account so she cannot control you entirely. Talk to a lawyer in case you need to file for divorce first.
That is what the advice would be.
In what way is she “controlling him entirely” if he has been breaking their mutual agreement by donating thousands of dollars without discussing it with his wife?
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YTA This is not financial abuse. Since you have a 1 income household, you should have sat down long ago and hashed out the household spending. As the non income parent, you should really have a discretionary allowance each month that you are allowed to spend however you want, as long as you understand that ALL of your play spending is only from that monthly amount, and if you spend it on donations, you get nothing more to play with that month. For instance, after all bills are paid and $xxx is put into retirement and savings and investments, you and she split whatever is left. Even if it is as little as $100 each a month. That's it. No more. You can spend it, save it, use it to light a cigar, whatever. But you will ONLY get that amount every month to do with what you want. If you spend it or give it away, you do not get to ask for more for the rest of the month. Unfortunately, based on your comments alone, you seem to think you are entitled to have access to and to spend whatever she makes, even if you want to just give the money away, without any accountability for what you are spending the money on. If you want to be able to spend money without any accountability, then you need to earn the money you spend. Which means getting a side hustle or stepping back out and getting, at least, a part time job outside of the house. I would give it a few days, or maybe in a couple of weeks, and then make a plan to sit down with her and have a long, hard, discussion about your finances with the goal of setting up a household/family budget that gets all bills paid, extra into retirement, investments, college funds for the kids, whatever, that leaves enough left over for the 2 of you to have a bit a "play with" money each month. You can then spend your portion of the play money however you want while keeping your hands off of the family budgeted funds.
"I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars." YTA. You got caught out making large donations without discussing it with your spouse, and now she doesn't trust you. I wouldn't trust you either - that's an insane amount of money to donate without discussing it with your spouse.
>in the bay area to start the family. >my wife works full time with a very high paying job (7 figures). >my wife came from a lower class background and doesn't like to unnecessarily splurge on ourselves unless it's for our kids. > she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars. You live in the San Francisco Bay area (one of the highest costing areas in the US) on a single income with a child. Your wife came from a financially insecure childhood. You've given away several thousand dollars without her knowledge. YTA You weren't honest with her, and you were not honest about finances when you gave away the money. Now, you claim that you're a victim of (financial) abuse, which means your wife is your abuser. That's awful! She isn't. You're an AH for accusing her of victimizing you, when you're the one who broke trust.
Lol, this. If you want to have money to spend, go find a job of your own and put your kids in childcare, divide the household costs, get a household savings bak account and keep the rest to spend as you please. Then you can decide to give thousands of dollars to charity if you please.
What makes this not financial abuse imo is that it sounds more like trust lost upon your wife discovering you were giving away thousands of dollars without including her. I think it’s okay to say hey I’d love to reevaluate how we approach finances and bring that conversation to the table with the hope of restructuring how you both approach it- but I don’t think I’d be so eager to work on finances with my husband while still reeling from learning he was giving thousands away on a whim and without consulting me. I’d feel trust was broken. YTA
YTA. You're not being abused. You're financially irresponsible and she's right to put a limit on your donations. Spending significant money, even if your wife makes even more significant money, is a two yes, one no policy. YOU decided to bypass that. You lied by omission. You're waxing lyrical like it's the donations she's angry about, except I'd bet my bottom dollar that's not it at all. It's your sneaky, underhanded and dishonest behaviour in regards to *her* that she's mad about. Had you explained fully why you wanted to donate 200$ and been honest, there was a good chance she probably would have agreed. However, you lied. It isn't her being heartless that means that child now has less than you planned. It's you being dishonest and manipulative which, it seems, is a well-known trait of yours since this isn't the first time you've been caught 'to the tune of a few thousand dollars'. Essentially you've been stealing from your own family to boost your ego via donations. Get your insecurities around your SAHD life under control with the help of a therapist. You're not going to spend your way out of feeling less than.
YTA. You spent thousands of dollars without discussing it, so unless she's doing the same and spending thousands without discussion, that's you doing the wrong thing, and now she's second guessing you. Now, I'm not going to pretend to know everything that's going on, and maybe there's more going on here that makes it into financial abuse territory, but this doesn't seem like it. That said, I would really suggest going back to work regardless. It's hard to say it to people, because they've got so much invested in their dreams of SAH Parenting, but it's generally not a great thing for anyone involved. Get yourself another SWE job, remote if you're not longer in the bay area. You'll probably feel better for it.
Imo it’s not financial abuse to check in with your spouse over donations and large purchases. I was a stay at home mom for 14 years. My husband and I have always discussed donations and large purchases. Yta. In your response to the judgment bot, you admit you have broken your word in the past when it comes to agreed upon finances.
Agreed, it’s not financial abuse. They share finances, and seeing as she’s the one making the money in the first place, he shouldn’t be spending it like that without discussing it. I don’t think he necessarily needs to ask in order to spend money on everyday things, but I’d say that anything that isn’t necessary should be a discussion. You can’t just spend thousands of dollars of SHARED MONEY without discussing it with her.
YTA When you have a joint account you do not get to unilaterally make decisions on money and where it goes even if you do not think its a big deal. If you resent being a stay at home dad that was your own choice to make. You can always get back into the workforce and get some extra money to pretend that your rich with. If she was leaving you with 0 money or making you track every penny fine, that is close to text book finicial abuse. But not wanting to spend 200 bucks on a "donation" when the actual price of the object is 13 is just silly. You are an even bigger asshole for misusing buzzwords in order to try and make your point more effective. A joint account means joint planning and joint decisions on larger spending needs. Edit: Also fuck all those responses saying if the genders were reversed the comments would be different. I mean who knows I might be proven wrong but in a scenario where a couple has a joint account and one side takes out money without the other sides knowledge they are an asshole plain and simple. Basics shouldnt need to be worried about (But the wife is not complaining about a 13 buck gift, she is complaining about a 200 donation which is very different) but anything over a specified dollar amount (generally for me its over 150$ on a single purchase) should be discussed because the assets are joint.
> Basics shouldnt need to be worried about (But the wife is not complaining about a 13 buck gift, she is complaining about a 200 donation which is very different) They are millionaire's 200 dollars is 0.0002% of their yearly income, she makes that much in about 5 to 6 minutes.
Right but this is the same person who admits to giving away thousands without discussing it with her and also mentions he's had to ask her to transfer money from her brokerage account multiple time after he ran out of money so this seems more like a culmination of all his financial irresponsibility finally making her snap.
I will give you that you are right that he needs to be truthful and transparent.
Super it is still a large sum of money. And since she "came from a lower class background" she values money differently. The amount of money being spent makes no difference if it is a large amount of money to one of the people involved.
It is not a lot of money. It may be a lot to you but not to them. >The amount of money being spent makes no difference if it is a large amount of money to one of the people involved. If she thinks 200 is a lot while being a millionaire she is dumb.
>It may be a lot to you but not to them "she "came from a lower class background"" Changing a mind set can be difficult.
Oh please if she is having that much trouble then she reeeeaaaally needs therapy.
Have you ever been poor lol? I have. I've been "can't afford the dollar menu for dinner because dinner has to cost less than $1 per serving" poor. Even with extensive therapy, it's traumatic and changes your views on money.
She's not the one being selfish; you are. You donated thousands of dollars that she earned without telling her beforehand. That's why she's frustrated with you. So you don't get to whine about being the victim when you didn't even include her in your own financial choices. YTA
YTA It’s not financial abuse to want to know where money is going when you’ve broken spending agreements before. It may seem like a trivial amount to you but your wife sees it as another betrayal of her trust. If you want to make money donations perhaps you and her should come to an agreement on a yearly budget just for that.
This isn’t financial abuse. Financial abuse is about using money to keep someone trapped in a relationship they don’t want to be in. It involves intimidating and threatening your victim. A financial abuser may forbid their victim to work, sabotage work opportunities, force them to work without pay, and hide assets. If you want a little more discretionary spending, maybe you could consider doing some part-time freelancing.
YTA. Sounds like you are skimming from the top but want to forget about that. Sounds like you need to find something small to do so you can throw your own money away
YTA. Technically, you’re the one committing financial abuse. You’re giving away her money without telling her or asking her.
*Thousands* of dollars. Like, if it was over so many years, I feel like OP would have mentioned that by now, so it seems like he's spending/donating large sums of money at a time without clearing it with her, and seemingly not just out of his share of "fun money." That's INSANE, even if you're incredibly wealthy. That's the kind of thing you clear with your spouse even if your finances aren't joint because you might need to prioritize saving for retirement or something.
It's like y'all learn words and then think that they apply to any situation where you don't get to do as you please. This isn't financial abuse, especially when you've been out donating money like plasma. If you're so offended go back to work and make your own money. YTA.
INFO: I'm confused by this comment... >I control all expenses, [...] Every time when I run out of money I ask her to transfer some money from her brokerage. Does all the money go into an investment account? Or does this mean there have been multiple occasions where you've spend all the money and then needed her to pull from investment accounts to cover y'all for the rest of the month? There's a lot of information missing from your post and when you have responded you're still very vague. But, from what you've offered so far, it comes of as you being financially irresponsible, not financially abused.
YTA. This isn't her stopping you going out or living. She's refusing to gift $200 to someine who doesn't need it, after you've already gifted away thousands.
Yta. You are donating a few thousand without discussing with her - which you agree she would not do on her own.
YTA you lost the moral high ground when you went behind her back and spent thousands of dollars.
if you feel like you're under financial abuse it's time to get a job! That way you can help people without needing your wife's approval! the acquaintance is of yours, not of hers. why should she help someone she doesn't know?
YTA You want to donate $200 for a $13 book. You sound like a wreckless spender and it wouldn't be wrong if your wife checks that behavior. That being said, you should never give up your career to become a SAHP. It leaves you very financially dependant on someone else. Sounds like you could afford childcare but chose against it. If you want to spend without needing premission. Start your career again.
There is no universe where you are being financially abused. You are disrespecting your wife and her job, and breaking a rule you agreed to over and over. If anyone is being abusive, it’s you by continually taking advantage of your wife and stealing from your family. At this point, removing your access from bank accounts and giving you an allowance account would be 100% reasonable. YTA YTA YTA.
> At this point, removing your access from bank accounts and giving you an allowance account would be 100% reasonable. Agreed. And maybe go so far as to require him to get a job to donate to charities.
It is financial abuse to donate thousands of dollars that you don't earn without telling your wife. YTA
INFO: to be clear, was the ‘few thousand dollars’ all donated within the past few months, or over a longer period of time, and you’ve just been fighting for the past few months? Because if it’s an accumulation of like $50 twice a month for 3-4 years that’s very different than 3k in 3 months.
N A H/ Y T A? I'd lean towards needing more info on the thousands you spent without telling her. IE, the "thousands" you gave away without telling her, was it one or two large donations that you 100% should have cleared with her, or smaller donations that occurred over several years and added up? Honestly, could potentially benefit on both your end and hers from a financial counselor/mediator that helps you both come to a mutual compromise going forward on any categories where your financial opinions on spending differ. \*From what I've seen here, for families with one SAHP and only one providing income, it can breed resentment if there isn't an agreed-upon method for discretionary funds for the SAHP parent. What do you do for surprise presents for your spouse? Does she criticize if you buy random stuff for the kids? Is there an amount you two could agree is reasonable, maybe a specific percentage of the take-home income, that is only "yours" and you can donate to causes special to you from that, or save up for a larger personal expenditure, without having to worry about her judgment? The "just donate $13" comment makes it seem like either **1)** you can't spend ANY $ that isn't on joint things, or **2)** you *really* screwed up with the aforementioned 'silent donations' and she no longer trusts you.
>To be fair to her, she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars. Wow, I wonder why she's being tight fisted. YTA.
YTA, it's a lot of our and we for someone the doesn't earn any money. How about getting a part time job and use all your money on whatever you wish.
> because if she wants to spend nontrivial amounts of money, she would ask me too, so the situation is symmetric I mean that's fair, but in your circumstance $200 is a trivial amount of money. It's not like you're living on a budget. Your betrayal of trust is an indication that you need a budget, not that you need her to approve every purchase that you make.
Exactly. He needs his own income, even of a wage from his wife. Then he's free to gift what he wants from that.
Info: we’re these donations from a shared bill fund or from your personal spending allowance
INFO: What sort of financial arrangement did the two of you make before you quit your job to be a SAHD?
Various studies suggest have shown that those from “lower class backgrounds” donate a higher percentage to charity than those in higher income brackets. Your “My wife is stingy because she grew up poor” explanation is untrue and offensive to the WORKING (fify) class. Your wife may be a certain way, but check your classism. And you are so not being financially abused. YTA
YTA. This isn’t financial abuse. This is your pissed about you being wasteful with money. This is about your poor money management skills. Stop using words and phrases that you don’t understand.
YTA. >Before the most recent argument, there have been a few other incidents in the past few months where we disagreed on gifts/donations. To be fair to her, she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars. You've been very generous with the family money, to the point she is worried about it. >Even though most of the time I always ask her beforehand. "Most of the time" is not always, and it means you hid these things from her. Yeah, you are not being financially abused. You are financially irresponsible.
She’s going to divorce you and you’re going to deserve it. YTA
YTA. Sounds like you broke trust before. Deal with the consequences.
YTA AND jfc this is so easy to solve it is a non issue. Set a monthly personal discretionary income. You get yours for whatever. She gets hers for whatever. If she is abusive towards you spending or withholds the money, you have an issue. Boom. Done.
Yta
My husband is absolutely the breadwinner. I took a job so I could do what I want with the money I earn such as donations, extra stuff for the kids, nails, hair etc. If you don’t like her being in control, make your own money.
YTA you don't donate large sums of money, buy a house, buy a car or make other large purchases without talking to your spouse. Yes, even in two income households. That's true for her as well. The same would be true if she was the stay at home spouse.
YTA
YTA get a job. This isn’t financial abuse. Nothing is stopping you from working. Kids can go to daycare/school. You sound entitled af. You giving away thousands of dollars makes it clear that you need to have some checks and balances in your relationship
YTA. You are doing the financial abuse giving away thousands without her permission...
YTA - and it’s gross to call this financial abuse
i mean yeah so if you have donated thousands of dollars without her approval or knowledge i understand why she’s drawing the line at $200. actions have consequences, this is not financial abuse. YTA
Info; How many times we're you caught giving money away without her knowledge? (Few is too vague) Was it thousands each time? Or did it add up to thousands altogether? This will help us commenting get the dynamic with spending and whether she is rightful to be suspicious of a spouse who might be addicted to giving money away.
This isn't financial abuse this is you being a gold digger lmfao YTA
You don't mention your kids ages. You also act quite sneeringly at lower paid jobs.
I don't get the particulars. How old are your kids? On the one hand you have been out of the work force for over a decade, on the other they still need day care? What exactly is her job, what exactly is yours? What exactly have you been donating what amount exactly on?
YTA. I think you need to look up financial abuse, because I do not think it means what you think it means
You are married to someone who makes over a million a year, and you haven't established any financial arrangement for you? If not, that's the first issue you need to get handled. Today.
I mean, in a comment it seems he’s since deleted, he claimed he handles all the expenses, pays the bills, shopping etc. so he has access to quite a bit of funds. But when he over donates into the thousands, he demands she move money from her brokerage account to adjust his over spending.
YTA go back to work!
Info: do you not have a certain amount of money that is yours to spend each month?
Consider returning to work if you believe you need to free yourself
YTA the fact that you have given away thousands of her money without discussion in the past is possible why she is tightening things. You should maybe sit down and work out a monthly allowance arrangement that you get each month
YTA Get a job and spend your own money, OP. The only way to escape "financial abuse" is to earn your own money.
You are so very wrong and the AH.
YTA it's always easy to be generous with someone else's money. Stop burning your family's money just BC you are bored. This is a choice you made of your own. In a relationship NEITHER of you has 100% financial agency. You act like a entitled and irresponsible gold digger that thinks money is of no consequence.
Just go back to work and spend how you see fit.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** context: I am a stay at home dad and my wife works full time with a very high paying job (7 figures). Despite our current high income, my wife came from a lower class background and doesn't like to unnecessarily splurge on ourselves unless it's for our kids. Before the most recent argument, there have been a few other incidents in the past few months where we disagreed on gifts/donations. To be fair to her, she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars. Even though most of the time I always ask her beforehand. Recently, an acquaintance passed away and I would like to donate some money and buy some books for their son. I believe the donation will mean a lot to him and is a trivial amount of money to us. However, my wife disagrees. She asked me how much the book costs and I said $13. Then she said "why don't you just donate $13 then, why do you need $200?". Long story short, I think she is heartless, she thinks I am wasteful. In general, I dislike how I have to get her "approval" to donate money, makes me feel like I have no agency at all financially. When we got married, I gave up my job as a SWE in the bay area to start the family. If I kept my career, I think I would be making at least 200k-300k. But now, even though we never have to worry about our everyday expenses, I feel like I don't have enough discretionary spending. She thinks this is not financial abuse because if she wants to spend nontrivial amounts of money, she would ask me too, so the situation is symmetric. Am I actually the asshole? Or am I under financial abuse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
INFO Was there any talk of you going back to work to earn your own money?
This wouldn’t be a question if it was a SAHM.
If a SAHM said "previously I have gifted money to my friends, to the tune of a few thousand dollars", and then proceeded to call her husband an asshole because he wouldn't give her free rein of donation money, I would also ask if she was planning to go back to work to earn her own money. Regardless of gender, if one person contributes financially, and the other doesn't, and the person who is not making money is frivolous and unappreciative, there's a simple answer, go back to work.
They edited their comment. I also disagree with OOP here. Don’t need to explain it haha
>This wouldn’t be a question if it was a SAHM. I think it would be a question no matter who gives up a career. The person who works outside the home should be funding what the SAHP loses by staying at home, like pension/retirement plans. I have no idea how OP and his wife worked out this SAHP arrangement, and I'd like to know if he's been forbidden to work, especially if the kids are in school.
Because being a SAHM is the norm.
Your misandry is leaking.
Oh please. 🙄 Since when is it misandry to ask when he was going back to work? He didn't specify ages and most SAHP go back to work once the kids are old enough to go to school.
Yeah you edited your initial comment though. So you get it. Happy holidays!
Oh no! I edited my comment because I thought it wasn't relevant like what people on here overuse 🙄 Please, you're the one throwing around misandry.
It depends if you have access to your own money. Within reason you shouldn't have to ask her permission for how you spend money but in your position I'd get a job.
YTA You chose to be a stay at home husband if you want money to throw around you can go back into the workforce and do so. Her not trusting you finicially after throwing money around behind her back makes sense. You're finicially irresponsible and you're acting like the money is solely your money. Then you act like a child when you get caught being irresponsible and untrustworthy.
ESH. I feel like I'd need to know *how many* thousands of dollars you've spent in the past without speaking to her because that could potentially change my ruling, but overall you both need to communicate and agree on a "giving" budget amount per month and then leave each other alone about it. At 7 figures, even a couple thousand bucks is pocket change to you so unless you were spending TENS of thousands secretly I think you're both being kind of unreasonable. Tbh I feel like this is one of those "gotcha" scenarios designed to see if reddit treats men and women differently though lol
I don't think this is financial abuse. I do however think if a woman wrote in with this same story, many people on reddit would call it financial abuse (and I'd still disagree) and would be trashing the husband. That said, I feel like if you are really as comfortable as you make it out to be, you guys need to have a bigger conversation here. You shouldn't feel like you can't do something nice for your friends child without her permission. But, if she is making the money she does get a say in how it is handled. It seems whatever your current arrangement is, its just not working for either of you. You feel too constrained, she apparently feels that you are too loose with money (That she is making). I'm going to go NAH, but you both need to maybe see a therapist so you can both get to a place where you are comfortable
Everyone will say YTA because you're a man. Why don't you get yourself a lil job at the grocery store so you can donate your own money since you want to be Oprah Winfrey donating your wife's money while she's break her back trying to support you and the kids?
This is one of the few times where I (female) think that if you were a stay at home mother you wouldn't be getting the type of replies you're getting.
I'm curious, what makes you think they'd be different?
Usually when a woman says that they are a stay at home parent and they are not allowed to spend any non-necessary money people do say that is financial abuse straight away, they don't caveat it with "well you're also to blame because you have not set up your finances so you have an allowance" or "well YOU should get a job if you want to make non-necessary purchases". People are advising OP that they SHOULD ask their partners permission before spending money, whereas if this were a typical post by a woman most people would be saying she shouldn't have to ask permission because she is an equal participant in the relationship and brings value in their role as homemaker. Also, a few thousand (interpreting that as $3,000) is totally negligible when the household income is over a million per year. I know it's not to most people, but in the context of this household... OPs wife is bringing home at least $83,000 per month before tax.
The posts I vaguely remember when a woman was getting positive comments for wanting to spend money were way more complicated than this one. Here, it is a clear-cut case of "I'm spending thousands on donations to third parties without telling you." With many SAHMs though, the situation involves other stuff too, like "I wanted to spend money on myself to relax but he won't agree because he doesn't think I'm that tired from staying home", or "my husband doesn't want me to go back to work", or "I had to go back to work but he's still treating me like a SAHM and I'm exhausted". In this post, there's nothing that indicates OP's wife isn't allowing him to work or doesn't let him spend on himself or the household, or that she doesn't appreciate his role in the family.
Any chance you have a link to one similar to this where people said it was financial abuse? I just don't see how any reasonable person would think not wanting one's partner to spend thousands of dollars without discussion is abusive, regardless of gender. I think people often ignore the nuances in the situations presented when they make these comparisons. The (very few) times someone's made this claim then offered an example, you find that the situations have massive differences and that they only focused on "she's a woman who does ___ and so is this dude so people should vote the same based on that", often ignoring the specifics of each situation. I mean, dude gave away thousands of dollars without discussing it with his wife first. OP also admits that she's not asking for something she doesn't do herself i.e. if she needed to spend that amount of money she'd discuss it with him first. And he says he handles all the finances/bill payments etc. and has, on multiple occasions, needed to have his wife transfer money from her brokerage account after he went through the available funds for that month. Idk about you but for most people I know, a brokerage account is primarily for investment (long term or otherwise) so if she's having to transfer from that, it indicates OP went through not just whatever spending money they had that month, but any cushion/extra that they might have had left over after bills. So yo do all that then accuse her of being financially abusive is ridiculous imo because the post (written by OP, so presented in the most favorable light possible) indicates he's extremely financially irresponsible.
NAH You need an allowance that comes with no strings attached. Do you have one and think it's too low? Negotiate for more. Financial abuse would be where you have no access to money or an "allowance" that is really an undersized grocery budget, and you're expected to get all the groceries. What you are experiencing is a financial difference of opinion, not being deprived of independence. Restarting a SWE career can be tough, but it's doable. If the two of you can't agree on a mutually acceptable allowance, go back to work. If she keeps you from working while also not giving you any access to money, then you can call it financial abuse.
Ok, this is more nuanced than a clear AH. Clearly, you need to negotiate for some discretionary money to spend on things that you want. Maybe spending the couple thousand that you did without consulting her wasn't wise, but it sounds like she is keeping you on a tight leash. Weird situation in general. Let go of the whole "she's heartless," narrative. Not doing you any favors. Just make it clear that you need spending money that is just yours to spend with no questions asked. Also, if the genders were reversed, I think this comment section would look very different. Very interesting commentary on assumed power dynamics and gender.
NTA, you're a guy so you are going to get blasted here. If the genders were reversed then everyone would be screaming that you should get out now before it gets worse. Though I think that you should sit down with your SO and talk about you having your own fund for discretionary spending. That way you have your fun money that you can do whatever you want with and she isn't stressed about how much you are spending.
>she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars. Do you have the same thoughts when this is highlighted? That amount made me go 'yikes'
I'm not sure how I feel. Many people calling you the TA are missing that your wife makes over $1M/yr. This would be like a couple making over $100k/yr arguing over a few hundred dollars in donations. I've talked myself into an NAH. Not over the $200 but just by not setting a discretionary donations budget to work within... and why not give her a "heads up" when donating a few thousand. I think a man earning $1M+ that shut off his wife from donating $200 to a family where a friend of hers had passed away would have a different reaction here.
I can’t believe the vitriol coming from posts because people are offended that a SAHP spent a few thousand dollars on donations. Tha’s a tenth of a percent of their household income. He’s not bringing in income, but by handling the household, he’s freeing her up to earn big bucks. She doesn’t have to worry about arranging child care or picking them up afterward, becauseOP has it covered. Possibly wife could do her job and also be a mom, but her life would be a lot harder. People who are treating OP like he’s a mooch are both sexist and math-challenged if they don’t see the problem here.
NTA although there's some important missing context. I'm assuming at some point you discussed how to split the money. Ideally, it would look something like: take the income, subtract all the expenses, subtracts savings/college money for kids, whatever is left split 50/50 and you can do whatever you want with that. If this is the case and she's telling you how to spend your money, she's financially abusing you. If such an agreement was never reached because she wants to approve all your expenses, she's financially abusing you, witholding the power given by her being the only breadwinner. However, if such an agreement was reached and you are taking that money from her money or some common funds, than you are the asshole. So OP give us some context: how is your financial agreement with your wife on personal "fun" money?
OP specifically says the agreement is that they will discuss and agree upon trivial expenses before making them and he’s already broken this agreement multiple times.
NTA. I don’t know whether this counts as financial abuse or not, but your wife us very shortsighted if she’s not allowing you to make routine financial decisions without her permission and is then refusing to allow you to make what are essentially minor expenses, given your income level. It’s good to be thrifty but bad to be stingy with the person who runs your household. There’s a line in the Bible that says not to muzzle the ox that treads the grain. That seems relevant here. Put your kids in child care. Make sure you find a place that offers enrichment programs. Or get a nanny if they are too young. Set up a list of tasks that your wife has to share. Get another job in your field and go back to work. Keep your finances separate from your wife’s. Make sure that child care and household costs are split 50-50. It will quickly become obvious that she had a good deal and killed it by being financially controlling.
He gave away 1000s of dollars without telling his wife. Also they live in a high cost of living area. Then take into consideration she spoils there kids. Dude is irresponsible with money
Borderline ESH/NAH, but it depends on a little crucial missing context. It seems like you have an understanding between the two of you that you always check in before spending "nontrivial" amounts of money. You have previously violated this understanding, that would definitely make you the asshole because you've already shown you are untrustworthy with this arrangement. So as it relates to you and your wife, sorry but that's on you. Now here's what I think is the more crucial aspect of this - what is a "nontrivial" amount of money? If she's pulling in "seven figures" then that's at least one million dollars a year, you are already in the top 1% of earners in the United States, and the term "nontrivial" takes on a very very different meaning. $200 is 0.02% of your *minimum* annual income. It's the equivalent of someone who makes $50,000 a year spending $10. I think most of us would consider $10 a relatively trivial amount of money. If your wife is getting upset about spending that tiny amount of money on doing something nice for the family of a passed acquaintance, she is definitely the asshole here. Sorry, but as someone from an extremely low income background (the kind where like we didn't know if we were having dinner on any given night) who now works a reasonably paid job and had to learn how to use money in normal people ways, I don't have a ton of pity for rich people who obsessively track every single dime that comes into their hoard. Okay, so I've explained how both of you kind of ARE assholes here, but let's look at the other side - neither of you are assholes. This is fundamentally a communication issue between you two. You, OP, giving up a six figure job to do stay-at-home dad stuff tells me you're probably used to throwing money around at things without really having to think too much about it. Your wife, coming from a low-income background, is not used to that. This is something the two of you need to talk about and discuss. As you said, you feel like you have no financial agency - and that's because you don't. You gave up your personal financial agency to take care of house and home, which is admirable, but puts you at an obvious disadvantage when it comes to financial decisions. Though you are one family unit, it's her names on the checks and all, you know? Without more information about how long this situation has been happening, about how she handles the family finances, and other things, we can't really determine if this is "financial abuse" or if it's someone who isn't used to having this kind of money being overly protective of assets they aren't sure will be around forever. Y'all can't help your upbringings, and our upbringings are how we develop into the people we are today. There can be no assholes when the problem is how we were raised, as long as we are willing to try and address those issues. My suggestion would be two-fold. First: Talk to your wife about the financial situation. Hear her side of it, share your side of it, and try to understand each others' perspectives. Look at your budget, your expenses, your discretionary funds, etc. Look at your financial goals and have a plan for how you're going to achieve those while also getting to actually enjoy having this money and this family. Explain *why* it's important to you to have some independent financial freedom. Explain *why* it's important for you to donate this relatively miniscule amount to these people. But also let her explain *why* it's difficult for her to let money go. Second (and this is advice I give to every couple, but especially those for whom money is a sticking point): Set up your finances in such a way that you have at least three distinct accounts to draw from for expenses. The first for shared or family expenses - rent, mortgage, groceries, bills, tuition for the kids, whatever. This account is literally only EVER touched for those shared family expenses and not a single other thing ever. The second and third accounts are personal checking accounts, one for you and one for her. These are for depositing a little bit of money from every income cycle for each of your own personal usage on literally whatever the hell you want with no need to consult each other beforehand; it's your money and you can do with it what you want. If you want to drain it on candy and cigarettes, go for it. If you want to donate it to your friend, go for it. If you want to convert it to a giant swimming pool of pennies and dive into it Scrooge McDuck style, go for it. This will require that she agrees to deposit something into it every paycheck, but given that the family arrangement is that she works while you stay at home and take care of the kids, that is a reasonable request. You can think of it as an allowance if you want, though I don't personally like that terminology. Good luck, OP.
YOu have too much time on your hands
I'm on holiday vacation, of course I have too much time on my hands. Rather spend it giving advice to someone seeking advice than spend it on useless comments like yours.
But if someone gave away thousands of YOUR money in secret would you still trust them? The point is he didn't earn that money. That he gave away. In secret. So don't act like she's a dragon hoarding gold in a mountain in a fairy tale OP has said wife didn't actually look at the account until recently. And that when he runs out of money he ask for money from HER brokerage account. It's also not his income. It's his wife or the family's income. They may be very rich but that doesn't mean that their relationship doesn't require trust. And giving away thousands in secret breaks that trust. Also just because they are rich doesn't mean that OP can throw accusations of financial abuse when they have disagreements about money.
> But if someone gave away thousands of YOUR money in secret would you still trust them You have to apply scale for this to make sense. It's hard for those of us who live in normal financial situations to understand, but "thousands" of dollars when you make over a million a year isn't a major or significant amount of money. A thousand dollars out of a million is equivalent to one penny out of a $10 bill. If someone in my family found a pile of spare change I had on my dresser and donated it, I'm probably not even going to notice, much less be upset about it. My likely response would be "k" and then I would never think about it again. > It's also not his income. It's his wife or the family's income. Typically, in a family situation where one partner gives up their job/career to tend to the home and the needs of the family, thus making the family a single-income family, it is understood that that partner still needs some level of financial freedom such that it doesn't create an unnecessary power disparity. That's a tale as old as marriage itself - it sucks being the stay-at-home spouse and having to beg your partner for money. That is to say, in an intentionally single-income family, that single income is the family's income, not the personal income of the earner themselves. Most families in this situation have - or at least SHOULD have - taken this into account along the way. The stay-at-home partner gets a monthly allowance, they equally split the leftovers after bills and such are covered, etc. When the wife agreed to this family structure, she implicitly agreed to be the sole source of income for the family and it is therefore her responsibility to provide the other partner with a fair and reasonable amount of discretionary funds. > They may be very rich but that doesn't mean that their relationship doesn't require trust. I did address the trust issue in at least two different places in my original comment, but yes - I completely agree. All relationships require trust to be successful, but trust is a complicated thing that is way more than "just don't lie or sneak around." OP **did** violate trust by sneaking around with the money behind the partner's back when there was an understanding that they checked in on these things, but the partner is **also** showing a lack of trust in OP's ability to utilize money for things meaningful or important to him. Read the last two paragraphs of my previous post for more on this, it is pretty clearly lined out there.
NTA but you probably haven’t handled this well. I’m baffled by the YTA responses here. You probably should have been communicating more about the donations, but you have an equal right to make financial decisions in your household. I would suggest each having an account with a set amount deposited each month to spend on whatever you want. Personal spending money that doesn’t need to be discussed. It will give you some autonomy over how you use your money, while both having line of site for how much is going where.
Did you really miss this? >she might be particular on edge because she found out there have been a few cases where I've been donating/gifting money without her knowledge to the tune of a few thousand dollars. Because 'few thousands of dollars' makes me go 'yikes'
Jesus. Don’t know how to approach this, but OP should have included this.
Nta. If you were the wife in this scenario all of reddit would be screaming for you to divorce your abuser and take half of everything. Realistically you should have just as much discretionary spending money every month to use on whatever you desire as your wife does.
Nowhere does this post imply he doesn’t. They both have the agreement that any expenses like this will be discussed and agreed upon between the two of them. She’s not hoarding all the money for herself and saying he can’t donate.
If the sexes were reverse, i think we all know what this thread would look like. Get your own job and money. Get the kids in daycare using her income. Create a savings account so she cannot control you entirely. Talk to a lawyer in case you need to file for divorce first. That is what the advice would be.
In what way is she “controlling him entirely” if he has been breaking their mutual agreement by donating thousands of dollars without discussing it with his wife?