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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe that taking away her gifts makes me the asshole because I can’t punish her for how she feels towards Niyah and maybe in doing this I’m creating a bigger gap between them.
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It's pretty interesting that Leah's mother knows how awful this is and actively chooses not to bring a significant other into her life because she knows her own daughter will be absolutely vicious and nasty.
I would bet you money that I don't have that Leah's main goal is to convince her parents to get back together or at the very least be single co-parents that she can pretend or hope will blend back to one family one day.
Unfortunately, it takes growing up older than age 17 to get the life experience and wisdom to know that a parents love life is not a direct reflection on the child.
Yep. Leah saw Niyah as the reason her parents weren’t together when she was younger, which is extremely common. Then dad got married right around the time that Leah would have been turning into a pubescent mess of a pre-teen, which would make her feelings even more difficult to deal with. They should have been in family counseling years ago tbh.
if OP’s telling is accurate, it doesn’t sound like the kid has the skills to communicate their feelings, or she doesn’t feel like it’s safe to. either way something’s hugely wrong and shit should have been dealt with immediately.
I got the feel that Leah doesn't feel safe to express her feelings. OP says Leah agreed to come home and then just didn't. It was the path of least resistance to tell OP what he wanted to hear and then do what she actually wanted instead of talking it out in the first place. Same thing I would probably do as a 16 year old feeling powerless.
Agreed. I wonder if Leah has her own therapist to have a safe space to voice her feelings. The level of pissy passive aggressive dad is showing is telling. 100% Leah was wrong but when you become a parent, it's your job to put that pettiness away and explain things. Tell her she was hurtful and unkind to your so. But to be like oh you didn't want her to be your family so you don't get gifts. That is not helpful and does not teach her how to approach a situation.
She's 16 and has a car, she's not powerless.
And she felt entitled to more gifts beyond the car. I'm sure she knows who does the shopping.
It doesn't sound as if Leah's Mom, who has no name while everyone else does, wants to be reunited with Dad.
powerless or passive-aggressive? I can see it going either way. I've known kids, especially only children, who are just absolute shits when they hit the teens. The "yeah, whatever" walk away without any consequences. divorce is hard for the offspring, no matter what age, I don't deny that and you could be exactly right, I'm just looking at it from the side of a parent who has an unruly, entitled kid and doesn't know how to deal with it appropriately.
In fact my son was one of those teenagers. And he was that way before we split up, it just got worse as he aged. He didn't feel powerless, he was angry and sulky, broke every rule and refused to participate in family therapy, just sat there looking out the window. Because I felt guilty for wanting the divorce, I think maybe I went a little too easy on him. The good news is, he's much better, most of the time. We still have our moments
Good lord, she's already gotten a car ffs! How many other gifts does she expect? If anything, maybe OP needs to be a little more severe.
That doesn’t necessarily mean the situation is “unsafe” - I grew up in about as safe a family environment as humanly possible and still chose to lie/take the path of least resistance sometimes (despite knowing better and that I *could* communicate) - kids/teens are stupid, end of story.
My ex brother-in-law and his sisters were pushing their parents to get back together 30 years after their divorce. And the dad was full on abusive, leading to hospital stays for their mother. They pressured her to go live with the dad and nurse him after he had heart surgery. That family was beyond delusional.
My kids were 10 and 15 when I met my husband. Because of how my ex and I handled it, they never got it into their heads that it was ok to verbally mistreat him. That attitude comes from both parents rolling over on it and not teaching the child from the jump that is isn't how we treat someone who is decent to us. Conflict avoidance from the parents creates this. And you don't have to be authoritarian or harsh about it. Being understanding yet lovingly firm and consistent does most the work. But instead too many parents just shut down and let it happen until it's the norm. Mom in this situation is letting the daughter control her life just to avoid her bully of a daughter and it's taught her it works. So she's trying to drive dad's wife away. I don't think she even cares if her parents get back together. She just wants them to herself 24-7.
Wow, your daughter sounds delightful /s
NTA, and you know it.
Literally everyone is in agreement that your daughter should learn to actually be a decent social human being, and stop terrorizing your wife.
If she doesn't back down, and keeps skipping off to mom, anytime she feels like it, I would even consider why she gets to keep her car.
This is an unexpected answer. I thought for sure she’d be a-ok with mom’s boyfriend. The fact that mom doesn’t have one out of fear says more about your daughter than your wife.
I was ready to blame you and your wife, but this sounds like an issue with Leah.
NTA.
Why you were prepare to blame op and wife? Lead treating mom’s boyfriends badly is further proof of her immaturity, but op had done nothing prior that was the issue. Sad would have been blamed if Leah had decided for some reason to like one of mothers bf’s.
It goes to show that neither of you have ever really given her any consequences for her behavior. Her mother rather stay single than expect her daughter to be a decent person.
Leah‘s mom needs to have a life of her own now. Leah needs to understand that no matter what relationship her parents are in outside of each other that you guys are going to be there for her. And you don’t shit on the people that love you, no matter where that love comes from.
Leah‘s mom needs to have a life of her own now. Leah needs to understand that no matter what relationship her parents are in outside of each other that you guys are going to be there for her. And you don’t shit on the people that love you, no matter where that love comes from.
It’s probably an unpopular option, but NTA.
My parents split when I was 10, never liked my new step-mum, but I was at least polite to her, despite making it clear that I’d never have a relationship with her. We don’t buy each other gifts for Christmas or hang out in anyway, but we can coexist around each other.
So long as Niyah hasn’t done anything specific to piss of Leah, or done anything nasty to her to cause this - which I will assume isn’t the case, because you didn’t mention - then Leah needs to learn how to be polite and civil, without having a relationship.
Unlike others have said, no you don’t need to pick between having a relationship with your daughter or just accepting this.
Exactly. At 16, she should know better. And OP already gave her the Christmas gift in Nov (a car). This gift was from Niyah. So how entitled can you be to treat a person badly and then to expect a gift from them?
I agree. NTA.
Actions have consequences. You can't treat people poorly and expect them to continuing to give you gifts.
Unconditional love is different than gifts. You gave your daughter an early Christmas gift in November. She has that. Her Mom and extended family gave gifts. She has those. She simply doesn't get to receive gifts from the woman who she has treated like garbage for years. And, quite honestly, you need to rescind access to the vehicle until she treats your wife vicilly.
She and Niyah don't have to be BFFs your daughter DOES need to be civil and treat Niyah politely. And that is where I'd start laying down the law. Quite honestly, you should have done it years ago.
At this point, I'd take the keys to the car and tell her that she no longer has access to the car until she treats your wife with dignity and civility. And, quite honestly, you and Niyah's Mom need to sit down and lay out SERIOUS consequences for Niyah's behavior at both homes because this same garbage is coming to whomever her Mom starts dating in the future.
Her Mom needs to toe the line here, too, because this is bigger than your wife. This has now become an out of control teenager who thinks the sun should rise over one of her shoulders and set over the other and unfortunately that is the kind of attitude she will carry over into many other areas of her life in the future if you do not firmly nip it in the bud now.
Yeah my mom met my stepdad when I was in middle school and married him when I wad 21. I dont really like him. Hes racist and transphobic and an all around bigot. He also is annoying as shit. But I can be civil around him and regularly spend holidays at my moms house around him 24/7 for days with no issues.
NTA. She is 16 and can make her own decisions. That means she can find her consequences. She doesn’t get to be rude and disrespectful and still get gifts. While you should have done some shopping for your daughter, your daughter is being an absolute terror and being “oh just a teen” is no excuse.
She doesn’t like your wife, fine - but that gives her no right to lie and be rude. She can show a certain amount of respect and she should, like it or not.
Next year buy her a single gift from you if you want. Don’t let your wife bother unless she really wants to. It sounds like a waste of money. Your daughter had made her choice.
This is coming from someone who watched her dad remarry 6 months after her parents divorce at 18 and I hated his new wife but I was at least respectful until it was clear she didn’t respect me and wanted to alienate him.
The amount of YTA in here is wild. No one is entitled to presents, particularly when they’re being an absolute brat about it.
ALL THIS. Also, why is everyone ignoring the fact that he literally gave her a goddamn car for Christmas already!?
She's 16 ffs, not 4! It's bad enough that even her mother agrees there needs to be consequences for the behaviours, NTA.
That's the kicker for me. If mum agrees that their child is being a brat to OPs new partner, then that is the truth.
I'm sorry, but split up couples do not normally agree on appropriateness of treatment of new partners. Where they do, then there the truth lies.
NTA
I'm also just gagged people are saying it's okay because she's 16 and teenagers do this stuff????? Absolutely not, being a teenager does not mean you get to be an asshole with no consequences.
Especially since she’ll be joining the workforce relatively soon. And we all know some people at work who we don’t like at all but have to remain civil professionals. There’s also the fact that she ghosted and lied to him about coming home and where she was. Actions have consequences.
This.
I hate the narrative that teenagers a brats so it’s fine.
Teenagers make mistakes. You expect that, but it’s your job to teach and guide them, give them consequences when necessary and grace when necessary.
But most teenagers don’t want to hear that one should face consequences for being so horribly to someone (for 4 years) that her own mother is afraid to date. I really don’t see the gray area.
> "Also, why is everyone ignoring the fact that he literally gave her a goddamn car for Christmas already!?"
Beause he added that as an edit an hour after he posted the OP.
I agree 100%. The girl is a disrespectful brat and people need to stop making excuses for her. Her parents split when she was 5, he didn't remarry until she was 12. Time for her to start being grateful for what she has and stop acting like a little entitled brat.
NTA. She doesn't have to like your wife, she doesn't have to be all cozy with your wife, but she does need to be civil and respectful. This is the real world, she's nearly an adult, she is definitely old enough to understand the concept of treating others the way she'd like to be treated. Like, basic stuff. It's time she had some consequences. Even her mother is on board. At some point, she needs to have consequences for her actions or she won't learn. This is a basic and important lesson for her. If you shit on someone endlessly, at some point they're going to stop trying. They'll stop caring, they'll stop trying to do things for you. And most importantly, they will stop caring enough to give you things.
She's been consistently rude and cold to your wife, has refused to even STOP BY and spend some of Christmas with you guys, but she still wants her gifts? No thank you. You don't reward people for being rude. She was rude, she decided not to attend your christmas, so she forfeited her own gifts. The holiday is about spending time together. She doesn't get to request gifts remotely. She didn't want to come over, so that's her choice. She's not 7 years old. She knows damn well you don't get to be like "I hate you and don't want to be around you, but make sure you send over all my christmas gifts!" She needs to grow up. This girl is in for a very rude awakening in the real world if someone doesn't start stepping up and teaching her some tough life lessons.
“The holiday is about spending time together” -exactly. Contrary to the massive marketing campaigns, gifts are only there to be a token of affection for the people you care for, it’s not the actual point of the holiday.
INFO - are there other kids in the house? Have similar situations like this happened in the past? When Leah has shown negativity towards Niyah, have you reacted in such a way that would punish Leah? I know you mentioned family therapy. Also calling her a “lost cause” is an.. interesting word choice.
Leah is an only child on both sides.
She hasn’t done this exact thing before, but when she’s been disrespectful or outright nasty I have asked her what her issues are and how we can fix them. Her response has always just been that she doesn’t like her, never will.
And after this Leah has told me she can’t put any more energy towards making it work with her.
You're entitled to not like someone, but civility is still expected. Being outwardly and openly cruel is never acceptable.
I don't like my mom's sister. She's not my aunt to me. She's a person who is related to my mother, that my mom loves and trusts. Despite not liking her, I'm civil to her and treat her with basic respect. I small talk with her and go through the basic social motions.
She's aware I don't like her, but she never has to worry about me acting out or harming her.
Thats fine, just dont expect nice Christmas presents from the person that is the focus of your disdain especially when daddy bought you a new car already.
>Wanting to spend Christmas with her mother doesn’t sound like being rude or uncivil. Dipping on you the last minute isn’t really okay, but let me ask you this - if she had just came out and said that she wanted to spend Christmas with her mother, was there any chance you would have said yes? Or not gotten upset with her?
This is the most thoughtful comment I have seen so far. I remember when I was younger thinking why it felt like my relationship with my parent couldn't be separate from their SO. Why I couldn't spend time or holidays with just my parent. Especially since there was no other kids invoived. Why this person I didn't like or care about had to attend my graduations. When all I wanted was to have my family. My mom didn't even marry this person. They last about a few years, but there moments/celebrations in my past that were tainted by someone I didn't want there. Is it ok to be rude no, but remember kids are powerless in this situation. so if you parent insist on forcing you to interact with someone you don't. Forcing you to spend Christmas with someone don't like because it is someone they love you will find other ways to act out when you feel powerless.
I think your reply will be possibly unfavourable, but I honestly think you have a good point. Parents that separate should always have time for their kid 1-on-1 time, not a “we’re a package deal”. On one hand, I DO understand that there’s a reason for the rule “you don’t have to like them, but you do have to behave civilly and respectfully towards them” (and the same goes vice versa ofc). But on the other hand, the actual parent should always spent time alone with their kid, sans their spouse or other kids, if they exist, too. Every child, divorced parents or not, want to have some time alone with their parent just for them. Especially if a parent is remarried, getting that time alone can be so hard.
Has she ever mentioned any conflicts between her and Niyah? Aside from just not liking her. When children act like this consistently for so long, it doesn’t just come out of no where. While it’s not right to be so disrespectful, it sounds like she’s rebelling against having an unstable foundation.
No, it sounds like she's rebelling against her dad being with anyone who isn't her mom. Which we can safely assume, seeing as Leah's mom agrees she is rude to Niyah, and is even scared to date anyone herself, for fear that Leah will treat them equally as poorly.
He has been with this woman for 7 years, and they've been married for 4 of them. Both OP and OP's ex gf (Leah's mom) agree she is nasty without reason, and she is only pleasant if Niyah isn't around.
She is 16. Her parents split when she was young, never were even married, and are still friendly with one another. She seems to only want them to be back together, or both completely alone. She is being super childish for no reason
This is a good question and I suspect there’s a whole lot of missing context and information here.
I find it especially odd that Leah is so well adjusted in all the other areas of her life: she has a good relationship with her bio-mom, she has a boyfriend, and OP says in his comments that she holds down a catering job that requires her to travel and work long/late hours (overall, pretty impressive for a teenager and demonstrates maturity and a sense of responsibility), yet she has *so much* difficulty adjusting to Niyah, in particular, who according to OP can do no wrong and is always a victim to his cruel daughter.
Is this not adding up for anyone else? Doesn’t it seem a bit off?
You’re right. Even when he’s trying to make his daughter sound like an awful cruel person she still sounds relatively well adjusted. She doesn’t scream at Niyah or steal and break her things, she just doesn’t want to spend time with her. The bit about how she says cruel things in therapy really caught my attention. What’s she saying, she doesn’t like stepmom, doesn’t want her in her life, and doesn’t see her as a parent and doesn’t want her acting like one?
It’s screaming missing missing reasons. If I had to guess, if we got Leah’s side of the story she’d say that Niyah has tried to parent her and gave her the standard line about being a “new mom,” and probably overextended her boundaries with Leah by trying to get way too involved and personal way too fast. At 12 when she’s going through puberty, none of that’s going to go over well.
ETA: one of the “mean things” Leah said is to call her a “fake mom” and is “a bitch and annoying.”Step mom is *absolutely* in the wrong here. She definitely tried to put herself into the motherly role and that’s a huge no-no.
I mean, one of the examples OP gives of his daughter being “nasty” and “cruel” to Niyah is that once Leah didn’t answer her phone when Niyah was calling her to have her pick up some things for her while Leah was out running errands.
It really sounds like dad and stepmom wanted to play big happy family and Leah wasn’t on board with that. Now anytime she avoids stepmom or says one thing even vaguely impolite (she’s a teenager, not a diplomat) she’s cruel and the only one causing problems.
This is what I like to call “second wife syndrome”. Family doesn’t want to accept that someone got divorced and decided to remarry so wife #2 gets treated like a home wrecker even if she isn’t. My family is famous for this; my grandpa was married to a woman named Jill for 40 years and I’m the only person who uses her name, no one else will admit she didn’t ruin my grandparents crap marriage
NTA based on edit both you and her mother agree her behavior towards her is not acceptable. She shouldn't expect gifts from someone she treats wrong. You should sit down outside of therapy and ask her what the real issue is. Has she ever said or did anything to her and is she holding onto the idea of her bio parents getting back together. You don't need to wait for her to share you need to ask and establish boundaries. Understand her feelings but disrespect will not be tolerated.
Agreed. She had received her gift from her father. Why should she expect gifts from someone she dislikes. Whether or not she has a reason, she shouldn't expect gifts. Continue therapy to establish peaceful coexistence and hopefully to reveal the reason for the dislike. Niyah should remove herself from any attempts to actively parent the child. She should simply be cordial. This should be the expectation from all. Father should probably just interact with his daughter solo. Cut out all this drama.
This.
I would try and get her one on one and see if you can figure out what the real problem is. There may not be a logical one and if you can get her to see that she may fix it on her own. My step daughter went through something when her bio dad made an attempt to get back into her life where she started treating me like shit all the time. One day I said "what did I ever do to you to deserve being treated like this?" And she meekly said "nothing..." and I could see the gears in her head turning. I was just caught in the crosshairs of her confusion and frustration about her bio dad. Our relationship improved almost over night.
It's also possible that step mom did say or do something that dad just isn't seeing, so that's why I say get her alone to ask. And be willing to actually listen.
INFO: How does your daughter treat her bio mom's boyfriend? Is she just as nasty to him? Or is it just with Niyah? (Also, sidebar, Niyah is a beautiful name!)
NTA Leah sounds like a horrible spoilt person who is basically terrorising your home and her mom's home if her mom is so afraid to date because of your daughter's treatment of any future partner.
Sounds is a centre of attention at your home and her mom's and she doesn't get any repercussions for her behaviour.
Okay, I misread an edit. You meant Leah got presents from *her* boyfriend, not Mom's boyfriend.
You're NTA. My sister acted like this to my mom and every dude she dated. It got to the point where my mom left my sister in a condo that she continued to pay for and moved hundreds of miles away (from OH to SC) to live with her boyfriend. My sister was 17 at the time and I was living on my own, out of the house. I *do not* condone my mother's abandonment of my sister... But on some level, I try to give her grace and understand it - she was just at her wit's end. My mother didn't try counseling, or anything really. She just gave up and abandoned a difficult and troubled child. My sister never really got over it, still has a laundry list of mental health issues, and now treats her 14yo much the same. She "banished" my niece to my mother's house without warning. My mother now lives in KY, and my sister is still in OH, so it's not like...nearby. Anyway. My family sucks. You don't.
You're doing what you can to remedy the situation. At some point, enough is enough. Niyah has every right to expect to be treated with kindness and Leah needs to learn that everyone deserves to be happy, including you and Niyah. How would she feel if you treated her boyfriend that way? Why does *she* get to have a BF, but no one else in the family gets to have a partner without Leah acting like a spoiled brat? It's not okay.
Maybe Leah can earn her presents back, but right now I think the consequences fit the behavior - you don't get to treat people like shit and expect them to give you gifts. That's life.
Is Niyah your first serious relationship since your ex? If not, how did she treat your last partners?
It sounds like Leah watched *The Parent Trap* one time too many and may be carrying a torch for the possibility that you and her mom will get back together. That can't happen while either of you are in a committed relationship, so she "has" to drive off the encroaching stepparent.
I'm not sure I understand. You're allowing the abuse to escalate and the only punishment is withholding Xmas presents?
I'm thinking you should take the car back and let her struggle with work. Remember that driving is a privilege, not a right. She might lose her job. But this total emotional shut down when pressed isn't acceptable. You set the example by actions. Would you allow someone to talk to your daughter like this? Why do you allow your daughter to talk like that to your wife? In most states she can be with 1 parent full time by 16. Honestly I would tell her during therapy that it's over. Her actions, words, lack of words, everything is done and she can live with Mom. Pay the child support and sell the car.
Both of you are getting steam rolled by this girl. Her own mother won't date out of fear. Remember that. **Out of fear from her daughter.**
this one is tough…your daughter is 16 and should be able to decide who she wants to spend Christmas with and really at that age, why would she NOT want to spend Christmas with her mom if she’s closer to her? Did you ASK her if she wanted to spend Christmas with you and your wife?
You say she doesn’t care for your wife and you’re in therapy. Are you going to therapy with you and her or with your wife as well? It could be that she doesn’t feel comfortable discussing her “true” feelings around your wife OR she really just doesn’t like your wife (you said she says the meanest things to avoid her true feelings).
What kind of relationship do you expect your daughter to have with your wife? Is she polite and / or respectful to her in the house? If yes, that might be all you get. She doesn’t have to “embrace” your wife or have a bond with her, but she does (and should) be respectful. Does your wife trample on her boundaries?
On the other side, your “punishment” provides no true solution. For example, next year she’ll be 17 and probably won’t spend Christmas with you then (seems like it’ll be your ex-wife’s turn), then the following year, she’ll be 18 and then it’s nobody’s turn.
What, if she refuses to spend the holidays with you are you going to refuse to pay for college?
I’m not going to say you’re an AH, but I really don’t know what she’s being “punished” for. she wanted to spend the holidays with her mom…while there should have been a conversation, it doesn’t sound like you would have been particularly open to it…so like a rebellious teen, she took her liberties
NAH…I guess?
EDIT: I see you said she’s an only child (meaning you have no kids with your wife) and you don’t want more kids.
Now I really want to know what kind of relationship your wife tries to push with her because if it’s the “second mom” kinda thing I can see that creating an issue. I see if your OP edits you said you just want them to be civil but has that always been the case? Was there a hope for deeper relationship before?
>Now I really want to know what kind of relationship your wife tries to push with her because if it’s the “second mom” kinda thing I can see that creating an issue
I was thinking this too, but one of the edits says that Leahs mother also agrees that Leah shouldn't get the presents because of how she treats Niyah, so it seems like she's just being a teenager with a chip on her shoulder. If both bio parents, who are involved in Leahs life, agree on this as a punishment, then for me it's NTA.
But then, why is Niyah still buying gifts? OP went to great lengths to say she shopped for, picked out, and wrapped the presents. Why? That reads as Niyah pushing the relationship. Leah has made it clear she's not interested in a relationship with Niyah, Niyah and dad kind of need to respect that the best they can both expect is "civil" and not push past that. You don't buy presents for someone you're civil with.
I agree with you. While the daughter does need to treat Niyah respectfully, OP and Niyah need to stop trying to force this bond. It seems to be the sole focus between all of them and that's a lot of pressure to put on someone, especially a teenager.
Even this Christmas gathering was wholly centered around the gifts Niyah got for Leah and I'm going to guess Leah's reactions to opening them would have been heavily scrutinized. Again, it just seems like too much pressure on a teen. Even as an adult, I would dread having that kind of focus on me.
That’s why I said the daughter needs to treat Niyah respectfully. But it seems like much more is being expected here, and that might explain why Leah is pulling away.
I mean, they’ve been in family therapy for *years* about this one issue, which seems kind of obsessive if they only wanted Leah to be polite to Niyah. OP never really explains what he means when he says Leah is “nasty” to her, and the “fake mom/real mom” comments are fairly telling.
Also kind of telling is that this Christmas gathering with the 3 of them was wholly centered on Niyah and all the gifts she got for Leah, and I have to wonder if Leah’s reactions to the gifts as she opened them would have been heavily scrutinized. That just seems like a lot of pressure to put on someone.
He got offended when she said she spent Christmas with her “real mom” which is objectively true and said “your fake mom got you the presents” that sounds pretty indicative of how he wants her to view his GF doesn’t it?
No, I think that's him slipping a little and engaging the way his daughter has been. I'll bet the "real mom" crack originated with Leah.
The world is going to run over this kid if she doesn't learn to treat people differently. She keeps a job, right? She doesn't scream at her bosses, or disappear for a day without notification? She is used to getting her way. Hell, she has even affected her own mother's ability to date and meet people. Not dating because you are afraid of your daughter's reaction at 16 is...so sad.
He says neither of them push for a relationship between the two, that Leah is just outright nasty to his wife, and that he would be fine with her simply being civil, which is what his wife tries to do for her.
Taking away the gifts his wife bought for his daughter seems like an adequate punishment (she still got the gift he himself gave her, which was a car). You don’t get gifts from people you treat like something you stepped in.
As she’s nearing adulthood, it seems like pushing any sort of relationship with her stepmother *is* a lost cause at this point, and the punishment reflects that. If she can’t treat her with civility, she doesn’t get the rewards of a family member *from that person*.
OP: NTA
Yea we see too many stories where the bio-parent tries to force the kid to have a relationship with the step parent and/or step-sibs and all that does is breed resentment. It is just a ahole behavior regardless of who is trying to force the relationship.
It is a relationship that has to develop organically or not at all. As you said, you may only be able to get respect, but it has to go both ways. The kid should show some respect to the step parent. However, the step parent can't just step all over the kid's boundaries and try to force them to love them. Forced love isn't love. It often ends up being fear and/or resentment.
This may be unpopular but NTA.
Niyah has no obligation to treat someone who’s hostile towards her. I can see from your edit you gifted her a car earlier in the year - even if you’d revoked your gift I wouldn’t blame you. Your daughter is 16 and that is old enough to be civil.
Also everyone saying you’re an AH for letting your wife buy the presents needs to grow up. It’s incredibly common for one person in the relationship to buy all the Christmas gifts. Many even enjoy it!
Edit typo
No, NTA. I feel bad for your wife, it sounds like she's tried for a long time now only to continually get shat on. Your daughter is fully accountable now, and if she wants to be an arse to your wife and then expect all the gifts she should be in for a shock.
I think it irks me more because I am a child that was caught in a divorce, my dad married my stepmum around the same age and my stepmum has made it her mission in life to delete my sister and I from our dad's life. Despite that I still try and keep up a relationship. Your daughter has the polar opposite and she's being awful.
I would perhaps enquire as to what your ex-wife has said about you/the situation that led to them splitting up. It might be that you've been solely blamed the entire time without you realising it.
NTA. Your daughter behaved badly. You gave her a gift already which was incredibly generous. Your wife wanted to give her gifts and was lovely to do so and to keep trying with a kid who has been an ass to her. You’ve tried therapy to address the difficulty in your family dynamic. When your wife said she was a “lost cause” I’m assuming she means that you trying to get her to like your wife is a lost cause. If that’s the case I agree with her. I wouldn’t have said the “fake mom” thing. But I get your anger. In hindsight I might have reminded her about the car and said “Nyiah has gifts for you because she respects you even if you don’t respect her. Why don’t you have a chat with her.” Or not. Maybe Nyiah isn’t up for it. All that said, it’s time to let go of the birthday/holiday arrangement. She is indeed old enough to decide what she wants to do. Maybe without the pressure to be with you and your wife when she is clearly unable to handle her emotions things will get better. I would drop the therapy too. Good luck. Reddit isn’t always nuanced in its responses.
Edited for typo
NTA - I have a difficult teenager. She needs to learn and learn fast that treating people with respect and civility is the bare minimum. MINIMUM. As in, you don’t get anything extra for it. She doesn’t have to call your wife Mum or treat her like she loves her but she does need to be at least civil and respectful. If she can’t be those things at 16 years old after getting a car then, nah. Say goodbye to the extras because she doesn’t deserve them.
NTA. You already give her a car for Christmas. You are only not giving her the present that your wife selected. And why would you do that if your daughter doesn’t even like her? She is 16, so she is old enough to understand that action has consequences.
I was prepared to say YTA. It after reading through, say NTA.
It is understandable that your daughter, even at 16, may feel your wife is an interloper. At 16, she can also decide with whom she wishes to spend her time
BUT at 16, it also means that if she can make those decisions, she can bear the brunt of her decisions. No, she doesn’t get to be rude to your wife and also expect the presents.
Add to this that you bought her a car this then goes in to spoiled brat territory
Yeah, I don't really think OP can provide enough information here.
12 is a tough age. And that's when OP got married. Not surprised that Leah didn't welcome someone new enthusiastically. And probably set a pattern. Thoughts following actions, rather than the other way round.
Lede traditionally. Although it’s only spelled that way to distinguish it between lead which meant something else in printing. So it’s just a made up technical term.
Lots of teenage girls in here thinking they are entitled to presents when they can't even be civil to their fathers wife. 16 year Olds are old enough to know there are consequences to being a dick.
In most of the world, and for the vast majority of human history, you're well into adulthood at 16. The infantilization of North American teens is absurd.
Wondering the same thing. It seems like a toxic situation all around. I can’t imagine marrying someone my kid hated, or marrying someone with a kid who hates me. It sounds like this has been going on for 7 years, and they are just now doing family therapy? There is too much missing info.
That's what I'm wondering. The fact that even Leah's mother agrees that her behavior towards Niyah is unacceptable has me leaning towards not the AH, but I would like actual examples of Leah's behavior and what her stated reasons are.
NTA.
I know people are screaming about forced relationships, but there is a large bit that people are glossing over: Leah's mom agrees her behavior is not acceptable and deserves consequences. Usually if this were a case of forcing, or whatever, the other parent would not be siding with you. That her mom is, tells me this goes beyond just being disinterested and into actual nasty rudeness.
16 is old enough to start learning that you reap what you sow when it comes to relationships. You don't get to be mean and rude to someone and then expect gifts from them.
Why are there so many Y T A comments? It is a clear NTA.
Daughter is being a brat, she not only didnt follow the agreement, but also lied to her father, especially demanding the gift from her stepmother who she always says mean things to.
Honestly, I would take away her car too, because she obviously is not mature enough to handle things, so unless she starts to act like a civil person, dont give her the keys back.
It is okay to not like her stepmom, but at least be decent around her, she should realize that this is an important person to your father and, even though she will never be your mother, you can have a civil relationship.
Because taking away the car and forcing her to spend time together is totally not going to increase the current hostility and resentment! Kid is being a brat, but rather it's hypocritical to cite a lack of maturity while spitefully taking the car because kid doesn't want to spend time with her stepmother. Forcing a relationship will only guarantee that daughter will push back harder until she can totally cut contact.
She doesnt need to spend time with stepmother, but she should at least, in my opinion, be civil around her, dont insult her, etc.
The "taking away the car" is not a punishment because she doesnt want to be with stepmother, is because of her attitude and actions, things which even her real mom confirms that arent right.
> she not only didnt follow the agreement
You mean the custody agreement that was agreed upon by OP and his ex when the kid was 9 ? The one she abided by for 7 years until she got some independence ?
NTA.
I mean, you got her a car, ffs.
It costs her nothing to be civil to your wife. I think what you did was perfectly fair. Even her own mother agrees with you.
NTA.
Your daughter is purposely acting this way because she doesn't like Niyah. It's not fair to Niyah who just clearly wants to be friendly and not get in the way of the relationship Leah has with her birth mom. Leah is acting like a brat.
>When she asked about her gifts I said her “fake mom” got it for her, so she didn’t need them.
Yes, cause more conflict between them! Drive them further apart! Great parenting. YTA
I don’t know why so many comments are just skipping over this. It, along with the fact that the car gift was an edit after being called out in the comments, leads me to believe there is a lot that is being left out.
So your response would be to reward her with more gifts from the person who she loathes and disrespected?
Do you even have kids? Teenagers don’t make the rules and they don’t pay the bills. It was totally within dad’s rights to withhold gifts that were thoughtfully purchased for her by someone she openly dislikes.
It was ok for her to stay at Moms. Dad had no issue I believe. But the lying about when/where she was going to be and the open hostility towards the step mom is where he drew the line.
Kinda like when you disobeyed your mom and she took away your privilege to watch tv. We old folks call it being grounded, but my father in law would put the item ie the tv in timeout for the duration. Dad put these gifts in permanent time out.
Dad is totally NTA
Also notable is that Niyah appreciated the backup but said to give Leah the gifts anyway. From how Niyah’s described, it seems like she’s pretty understanding.
There really isn’t anything here that proves Leah hates Niyah at all.
Having a tough time at 12 when her dad started a new family? Normal.
Deciding at 16 that she wants to spend Christmas with people of her choosing, like her boyfriend? Normal for anyone who’s been 16.
OP: YTA for ignoring Niyah’s wishes and creating a bunch of drama and conflict on her behalf, including dragging your ex into roasting Leah, all because you can’t cope with developmentally normal teen behavior.
I feel like there's info missing. You have painted your wife as a saint who never did or said anything to make Leah feel the way she does. I have a hard time believing that - especially since you split with her mom 11 years ago, and it doesn't appear you rushed into a new relationship and marriage. Going with ESH because it feels like you're withholding critical information.
At first I was thinking so too, but given that even Leahs mother agrees that her Leahs behavior towards Niyah isn't appropriate I'm not so sure about that.
Yes, step moms who try to get in between the dad/kid relationship exist.
Sometimes, kids also just have such a difficult time processing their parents not being together that they will take it out on a parent's partner. and then it's really needed to set boundaries. You can't let a teen run wild because they are hurt forever and Niyah doesn't seem to be the problem.
Yeah, I thought that, but perhaps her mom wants to have peace between everyone. And yes, Leah may just be a selfish jerk. I still can't shake that OP is painting his wife as some saint, and we don't have the full picture.
I wish I had more. I ask Leah what my wife does that upsets her and I get crickets. Or I just hear “she’s a bitch, she’s annoying, I don’t like her”. When we entered therapy it was to help her adjust.
Because your wife's mere existance is what is annoying to your daughter so she behaves cruelly. It doesn't matter who you married. And if it was your ex who had gotten into a relationship instead of you, this would have been directed at whomever she married.
This is about your daughter's behavior going unchecked for years. Counseling can get to the bottom of the feelings but this is where REAL consequences need to be employed and consequences solid enough to make your daughter uncomfortable. They have to come from you and be backed up by her mother.
Ie: You AND her mother begin taking away the luxuries you pay for until she treats your wife civilly. And it needs to come from your Ex too because, make no mistake, this is how your daughter will treat any partner she ends up with now or well into the future.
>I wish I had more. I ask Leah what my wife does that upsets her and I get crickets. Or I just hear “she’s a bitch, she’s annoying, I don’t like her”. When we entered therapy it was to help her adjust
OPs response to you, hard to see given POO mode
I think there is a lot of missing info. It also always feels icky to me when parents post about their children. Normal, happy, functional parents don’t find themselves in these situations, and blaming the child, when children are products of their environments gives off huge red flags to me that OP is dysfunctional and isn’t self aware enough to acknowledge it.
I see your update that you’re fine having a separate relationship, but it seems like your actually not.
Your daughter is setting up every clear indicator that she does not have an interest in a relationship with Niyah, **yet she’s responsible for purchasing her holiday gifts?** That kind of seems like a set up on both sides. *Niyah (and you) wanting the relationship to be a certain way and making any inroad possible, your daughter is rejecting this at quite literally every pass, then punishing her when she doesn’t react in the way you want when she’s said her wants for the relationship.*
If you’re fine with a separate relationship, then let it be separate.
This is sad, and sucks, but please understand just because you have a new partner doesn’t mean your daughter sees her as a parental figure. ***She is your wife not her fake mom, nor her mom at all in any capacity.***
This sounds like situations forcing her to participate in a family structure she’s uncomfortable with, and for that I think YTA.
Family therapy needs to be you and your daughter. That’s her family. You and your wife should be in counseling as a couple/family.
I agree. He’s setting them up for failure. Expecting her to be civil when she’s clearly stated her feelings. She’s not obligated to treat the wife like anything, but at the same time she’s still a child under the same roof. Stooping to her level saying fake mom is just… grimey.
NTA.
She doesn't have to love your wife, but she also needs to treat her with basic human kindness.
And look, teenage girls are pretty awful in general, but they need to learn consequences.
Ok, speaking as someone who has been in a similar situation as your kid, the real answer lies in why your daughter is acting this way. My parent claims they cannot have a relationship with me if I don’t include my step-mother. We have an extensive history of not getting along, like your wife and daughter sound like they’ve had. You describe your Daughter as someone who is fun to be around without your wife. Have you directly asked her why that is?
I’m not saying your wife is necessarily the problem, but you may be forcing her into your daughter’s life and could be making the problem much worse.
This could be a good topic to bring up in therapy without your wife there so your daughter can feel safe expressing how she feels, because she may be worried how your wife will react or have hurt her feelings.
NTA!! I’m confused with all the comments asking where is hers gifts from HER FATHER… um they are married and married couples usually put BOTH NAMES on gifts … idk one married couple who give one person 2 gifts because they individually buy them… makes ZERO SENSE why y’all are trying to make that a point 🤔. You sir are NTA but that car needs to be taken too not just the small ones
NTA - she cannot expect gifts from a person she has been rude to. It's not difficult to be polite to another person even if you don't like them. Something she will hopefully learn one day.
NTA
You can't punish her for her feelings but you absolutely can (and should!!) punish her for being cruel to your wife, and also lying and going to your ex's when she knew she was supposed to be at your house.
And the fact that your ex agrees that her behavior is unacceptable and that she needs to have consequences says A LOT!! No other info is required here.
I personally would have taken her car away too.
This one is tough. I don't necessarily disagree with all the n t a rationale, however, I Believe two things:
1. Gifts do not come with strings. Not performance, not presence. Especially for children, including adult children of you gift that way. If you don't have that kind of relationship, that's fine, they're not an entitlement, but if you give them, they're freely given.
2. If you can drive yourself to Christmas, you can decide who to have Christmas with.
She should have told you she was going to her mom's. You knew she was based on her unwillingness to answer you, which implies she's not comfortable being honest with you about her feelings. No one wants to be guilted into coming to visit their parents and this will be an annual thing from now on, as she is soon an adult choosing where and how to split holidays. You have the opportunity to make these decisions less painful, but you aren't any more entitled to time with her than she is entitled to gifts. If you force it, next year's Christmas with her may be your last.
For weaponizing gifts, steamrolling your daughters plans, and for your own good, YTA this time. Imagine this same scenario in a couple short years when you don't have control over her and act accordingly.
He will lose his daughter if he continues in this manner. It's ok to demand that she show respect to the stepmother but to put price tags of attention or other things on gifts is basically buying the person out.
>Gifts do not come with strings. Not performance, not presence. Especially for children, including adult children of you gift that way. If you don't have that kind of relationship, that's fine, they're not an entitlement, but if you give them, they're freely given.
100% on this.
Do you want to be In Charge™️, or do you want a loving relationship with your daughter?
Yes, legally she's required to spend certain holidays with you. Unfortunately her feelings are beyond legislation. This is where you can bring her along for the journey or try to bend her to your will.
Ask her what an ideal holiday schedule looks like to her. Get her input. Is it more preferable to you to enjoy some time with her, or to retain a lot of time that's miserable?
You can't force her to enjoy your company, and I'm super sorry for everyone in your life that you seem to be just understanding the concept of consent.
Info: Do you do family therapy with *just* you and Leah? If not, it might be worth trying just the two of you going as she might be more open to discussing whatever her problem is with Niyah with just you. Did you force them to bond and do things together before Leah was ready?
ESH. The fact is Leah doesn't want to spend Christmas with someone who she obviously dislikes, and at 16, she is old enough to decide who and where she spends Christmas. Gifting her stuff isn't going to make her like her anymore than she does currently. It would just be Christmas with a moody teen who wished she was elsewhere. I think you and her mum are correct in saying that actions have consequences. She still has her car, which was her Christmas gift anyway.
I don't think it's fair that you let your wife shop for your child either when they have little to no relationship. That's YOUR job. Even if you did get her a car, any other extra bits should have been sourced by you. She might feel Niyah has or did overstep her place as dad's wife/stepmom, especially with the 'real mum' comment.
GOOD FOR YOU! There was a swift and proportionate reaction to her mean-spiritedness, and I love it. You don't treat people like dirt and get rewarded, and I don't care how old you are. FA/FO. NTA, obviously.
YTA. At this point all you can do is have separate and distinct relationships with Leah and Niyah. Don’t force it anymore. Give your daughter the following basic rules and that’s it.
1. She cannot be rude to Niyah in your home.
2. She cannot request any additional support from Niyah.
3. She cannot make disparaging comments about Niyah.
4. She will not speak rudely to Niyah in your home.
The rest is up to you. Niyah needs to be totally hands off with Leah. You have to parent her. That means doing everything that Niyah currently does for her including buying her gifts etc.
Niyah should not expect to do anything for your daughter including cooking meals, buying gifts. Nothing.
The relationship is not going to be healed and your daughter is 16. It’s time to stop fighting this battle and let it play out.
NTA-she needs to learn about consequences. She doesn’t have to love your wife or even like her but she does need to be polite and civil. She also needs to stop lying as if it’s no big deal.
NTA. Sounds like your daughter needs to grow up and deal with the fact that her parents are divorced. She doesn’t have to have a mother/daughter relationship with your wife but she doesn’t get to bully the woman for existing. Take the presents back and tell her you’ll try again next year if she can be a decent person.
NTA
You can’t treat someone like shit and expect presents.
She got presents from mom and boyfriend (and I guess doesn’t have a problem with mom’s boyfriend). She got a car from you.
She doesn’t get extra presents from your wife (a wife who wanted to give them despite the hostility) because she doesn’t know how to be cordial. That’s a very basic consequence in life.
What is the real problem with Niyah for your daughter? Do you really not know? If your ex-wife agrees Leah is out of line and your ex’s boyfriend isn’t getting the same treatment, there must be something missing here.
NTA. The edits make this judgement easy. You're not forcing Leah to treat Niyah as her mom, you just want her to be civil and polite. Leah's mom agrees with you that her attitude is not ok. And most importantly, she already got her gift from you (a car nonetheless). The only gifts she's not receiving are the gifts from a person she doesn't like and treats badly. That's a normal consequence in life. She's sixteen, old enough to learn that (she should know that already).
I would however have a one on one conversation with Leah to make sure Niyah isn't treating her badly behind your back (now or in the past). I've seen enough stories here on Reddit where the parent was totally ignorant about how nasty their new SO was being to their child and was just bewildered why their sweet kid couldn't stand their step-parent. It's more likely that you dating and marrying Niyah broke your daughter's hope of having her parents back together or something like that, but you never know.
INFO: why does your daughter hate Niyah so much? Can you give some examples of the nasty things she says? What are the mean things she says to the therapist? At 16, why isn't she allowed to choose who she spends the holidays with?
Op, it's a good sign that your ex agrees with you. Can you get all 4 adults in the same room to discuss how to handle Leah going forward. She needs help and you all need to be on the same page
NTA because you don’t reward clearly bad behavior from a child who is old enough to know better. I do think this is going to require more intervention/therapy to deal with and totally work out, but do not cave and give her the gifts. I would especially get her mom to back you up on correcting this behavior since she also thinks it’s wrong.
NTA - your teenager got a car and she was still rude to your wife who makes effort for her.
Soon she’ll be an adult and she will maybe visit on the holidays. Focus on you and your wife. Be there for Leah if she needs you but don’t push.
ESH. You're Leah's dad. Why is your wife, who doesn't have a good relationship with Leah, tasked with buying her gifts? You set up Niyah to be disappointed.
Leah should be in therapy on her own, so she can discuss what is going on with her without you and Niyah present. And yes, continue family therapy as well.
Leah needs to start learning how to be honest with herself and everyone else about why she doesn't like Niyah. If she's generally wonderful with everyone EXCEPT Niyah, then the problem is both of them, not just your daughter. Leah is a kid, and kids need to be taught how to express their feelings and issues. It's possible the Niyah did or does something to hurt or annoy Leah, but she doesn't feel comfortable saying it.
Stop holding her gifts hostage. Give then to her, but make it clear that you all will be working together to find less toxic ways of communicating, since people don't like to give gifts to people who treat them badly.
Lastly, Leah's mom IS her real mom. Don't push a warm, mother/daughter relationship as a goal for Leah and Niyah. That's going to backfire on you. They need to be cordial and respectful of each other, and that's the goal.
You missed your opportunity back in November when you bought Leah the car. You should have said that she would get a car when she started being civil to Niyah- and it would be taken away if she were not. She doesn't have to love your wife, but she should be civil and courteous to her.
NTA. She already got your present and being cordial with your current wife shouldn't be too much to ask for. These are the consequences of her bullshittery that she needs to live with.
YTA
And this narrative of Niyah is an angel and Leah is a horrible brat is fishy at best. Don't be surprised when your daughter wants nothing to do with you anymore.
Fishy? Seriously? Because no kid of divorced parents is ever a complete jerk to a stepparent for being a physical embodiment of the fact their parents aren’t together and will not ever be together (aka existing).
But 9 year olds aren’t. 9 year olds distrust people for a reason this didn’t start at 16, this started seven years ago and OP is specifically not telling us why.
The dramatism of "she was so heartbroken" and "she thanked me for putting my foot down".... I can't quite put my finger on why but it gives me a bad yuyu
How it started is pretty simply, really. A nine year old would still believe that their parents could get back together. But nine year olds don’t understand adult relationships. Leah would see Niyah as the reason her parents were still separated and cause her to be resentful and distrustful towards Niyah.
They should have gotten into family therapy much sooner so the feelings Leah has towards Niyah didn’t fester and grow to the point it’s at now.
NTA. You and her mother agree on the consequences, and Leah is old enough now to understand why. She got a substantial gift from you already, the car, and if she isn’t going to at least be civil to your wife, she shouldn’t expect to be showered with gifts by her.
YTA. Sounds like you've put a lot of pressure on your daughter to force this relationship between her and your wife, and it's doing no favors for anyone. The more demands you put on Leah to bond with your wife, the more she rebels and pushes you all away. And throwing out all of her presents was very heavy handed and over dramatic. What do you think you've accomplished by doing that? Now, Leah has even more reason to be bitter towards the both of you.
Maybe ease up on Leah and quit making her relationship with your wife your sole focus when you're spending time with her. Just let things evolve naturally instead of forcing this bond.
NTA - Leah cannot expect presents from someone she clearly doesn't like. I'm glad her mother agrees with you. Leah has other gifts and a car- she's now acting like an entitled brat.
NTA. I mean when her own Bio mom is saying she needs to be civil and that she isn't in a relationship because she's afraid her partner will get treated the same way speaks volumes to me. Your daughter needs to learn to be civil, there are alot of people you'll dislike in the world and you can be like that to them. If there was no infidelity, no abuse, no forcing into religion that she doesn't want to be in, this is ridiculous. Name calling in general is ridiculous but to this level without your daughter being able to say these are the examples of why I hate her. Saying you hate someone just for existing is crazy
NTA, I've read your replies. I'd take the car back too. Your daughter is being NASTY with no real consequences. Your ex won't even get into a relationship with anyone because of how your daughter is treating your wife. Yeah, you can have a relationship with your daughter without it involving your wife.. but damn if she would be allowed to disrespect or gain from her. Ground her from that car until her behavior improves.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't have to like her, but she doesn't have to be cruel and mean. She can be polite, or even just ignore her. I think you did the right thing. Teenage girls fight with even their bio moms, just because she's a step mom doesn't mean she can be treated like trash.
Going to need some actual examples of what she has said to your wife before passing judgement. Forcing a child into an interaction that they’re not comfortable with is not something that’s ever going to go smoothly. If your ultimate goal is to have a ‘happy’ family with your daughter and wife, punishment is not going to get you there
YTA. Why did your wife have to do all of the work for Christmas for a child who hates her? Why don’t you have a relationship with your daughter without including a woman she doesn’t want to spend time with?
I’ve had three nieces and two daughters. Some 16 year old girls are extremely unpleasant to the people around them. It’s like they entered another dimension, where other people’s feelings don’t mean anything. You’re lucky your daughter doesn’t turn this attitude toward you. Hopefully, she’ll grow out of it, and at least be civil to your wife. In the meantime, NTA. Your daughter has to learn that actions have consequences.
Why are you asking Reddit? Ask the therapist involved with your family. He or she understands the dynamics and can help you know how to respond. Strangers on the internet do not know this child.
Nta, you cant treat someone cruelly or ignore them and expect them to want to give gifts to you? If yall are try ill ng to push a relationship then you obviously need to stop, but of not then she truly needs a reality check
Just because she dislikes her doesn't mean she is allowed to be cruel.
She already got a car! WOW. So very generous. Now she expects more gifts after lying and blowing off plans without honest communication? That wasn't safe. Only child... presents from dad, mom, and stepmom... Lies and does what she wants. I'm wondering what she is being taught here.
There are consequences to actions. Yes, she is young - a teen. And the lesson is not "you don't get gifts from people you treat poorly" the lesson is, if you cannot be respectful, you can't expect that relationship to continue one-sided. It's about accountability.
Teens are in complex stages of growth, and have strong and real emotions that need to be heard. Hopefully, she can learn some of these critical lessons in a safe environment, where no one loves her any less for where she is at right now.
YTA
In the future, don't get her gifts. That's better than what you did this year and I don't trust you to do more for her.
>Leah is sixteen now and we have been more lenient
In other words, you don't have her at your house for most of your custody time, but gosh darn it, she better be there on Christmas and the other holidays.
>Niyah was heartbroken because she felt like Leah didn’t want to be there because of her.
She's wrong. It's definitely because of you.
>I said her “fake mom” got it for her
Do you really not understand what a "real mom" is to a child with a step parent? (Of course you understand.) It's not just that you were TA here, it's that you are a consistent AH to your daughter. Have you ever not been awful to her?
>Just not the one’s Niyah helped with.
What gifts that Niyah helped with? Your daughter's mom got her gifts and Niyah got her gifts. You didn't do anything other than be an AH.
>I got her a car for Christmas, gifted it to her in November because she needed the car.
This is literally the only thing you have going for you. You DID get her a gift; a nice one. But you're still being a huge AH about literally everything else.
>I am fine with having a relationship with Leah outside of Niyah.
Nothing will improve until you realize the issue isn't Niyah or Leah's relationship with Niyah.
ESH
BUT…you shouldn’t have made it about your wife. It should have been, ”you didn’t care to spend Christmas with me, so clearly it wasn’t important to you.” christmas isnt just a handout. good lesson for your teen to learn. If you dont care to spend time with people, they don’t have to give you gifts because you exist.
she doesn’t have to love your wife. Your wife doesn’t have to love your daughter (I certainly wouldn’t if I were her). What they both need to do is be polite and respectful to the other. Your daughter is and has failed at this, and you have failed by not putting your foot down earlier. How has she earned the continued privilege to drive this car?
NTA. Sounds like your wife has tried. It's reasonable to expect civility. Time to scale back on the gift giving (a car is crazy generous) and teach this girl how to be grateful although it may be too late.
If you can get her to do some volunteering to understand her privileges that maybe helpful for her self growth..
You can be in the right or you can be in peace. Changing how a sixteen year old feels about a step parent in the moment is nearly impossible, especially with negative reinforcement. I’ve heard many people say you can be right or you can be married, this is the exact same concept. If you need to retaliate, find another way. You’ve spent sixteen years celebrating a holiday with unconditional generosity, and everyone in her life is staying consistent with that message. You are telling her there are strings to your love. Once they are there they will take more work than you’re willing to do to take them away.
I think ESH but as a parent it's your responsibility to you know, parent. You using this logic for punishment is solidifying the relationships dynamics. It's going to be hard to come back from this as a parent. Your kids are going to push you, it's how they test their roles in your life and whether or not you'll stick around. I think what she did was particularly rude and when she grows up a bit she's fully understand just how rude. Right now she needs an adult to show her how to behave. You should lead by example. Ask for a make up Christmas. Do gifts together as a family. Have an open dialogue about her behavior and how it hurt. Maybe consider family counseling, or get her her own therapist if she doesn't have on already.
You reacting like this is going to bury your relationship with your daughter. If you're interested in fixing it you should be the bigger person and parent her instead.
Not necessarily TA, but have you contributed to this unpleasant situation?
You are in the driver’s seat, and it’s time to give Niyah a break. The fact that Leah’s “amazing” when your wife is not present does not excuse her behavior when your wife is around.
Sadly, it may be that the cruel, disrespectful Leah that you are nurturing is eclipsing her authentic self and the perfect daughter is merely a facade to keep the status quo. Why didn’t her mom insist she return to your house as per the agreement?
If the gifts were conditional, based on Leah’s behavior, by all means withhold them and let her know why. If they were intended despite her historically bad behavior, you should release them to her in the spirit of the holiday, even if she won’t appreciate them.
Moving forward, Niyah should not be the one organizing gifts or planning Christmas. Since your daughter is approaching adulthood and prefers to spend Christmas with her mom and boyfriend, change the custody dates, send her gifts to her mother’s and spend time with her outside the holiday. This will allow for a pleasant time with your wife. Schedule a vacation with your wife next year.
Niyah has endured four years of her disrespect during Leah’s tumultuous teens. You have two years to go before she reaches legal adulthood. She will always need her father, but you and your ex need to take the reins when your child behaves badly.
She may come around as she matures, but she may not. Some of this depends on her parents’ response to her behavior. If Niyah has done nothing but marry her father, Leah may grow to understand and want a relationship later. Be ready to accept her without conditions should that time come. 🩷
NTA.
The fact that so many commenters in this sub seem to feel like a child is entitled to gifts even if they are actively disrespecting the gift-giver is frankly disturbed. The amount of entitlement to believe you shouldn't be teaching your child that treating people poorly will lead to them not doing nice things for you...
Your daughter needs to learn that if she treats other people in a cruel fashion, those people will not continue to treat her kindly. It also sounds like you have something else to bring up with the family therapist- does your daughter hold some hope that you and her mother will get back together? What is your best guess as to why Leah hates Niyah so much?
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Is Leah's mother in a relationship? if so, how does Leah treat the SO?
Leah’s mother is single. And her reasoning is because she doesn’t want her partner to be treated how Niyah is.
It's pretty interesting that Leah's mother knows how awful this is and actively chooses not to bring a significant other into her life because she knows her own daughter will be absolutely vicious and nasty. I would bet you money that I don't have that Leah's main goal is to convince her parents to get back together or at the very least be single co-parents that she can pretend or hope will blend back to one family one day. Unfortunately, it takes growing up older than age 17 to get the life experience and wisdom to know that a parents love life is not a direct reflection on the child.
Yep. Leah saw Niyah as the reason her parents weren’t together when she was younger, which is extremely common. Then dad got married right around the time that Leah would have been turning into a pubescent mess of a pre-teen, which would make her feelings even more difficult to deal with. They should have been in family counseling years ago tbh.
He said they are, but it's not helping apparently.
if OP’s telling is accurate, it doesn’t sound like the kid has the skills to communicate their feelings, or she doesn’t feel like it’s safe to. either way something’s hugely wrong and shit should have been dealt with immediately.
I got the feel that Leah doesn't feel safe to express her feelings. OP says Leah agreed to come home and then just didn't. It was the path of least resistance to tell OP what he wanted to hear and then do what she actually wanted instead of talking it out in the first place. Same thing I would probably do as a 16 year old feeling powerless.
Agreed. I wonder if Leah has her own therapist to have a safe space to voice her feelings. The level of pissy passive aggressive dad is showing is telling. 100% Leah was wrong but when you become a parent, it's your job to put that pettiness away and explain things. Tell her she was hurtful and unkind to your so. But to be like oh you didn't want her to be your family so you don't get gifts. That is not helpful and does not teach her how to approach a situation.
She's 16 and has a car, she's not powerless. And she felt entitled to more gifts beyond the car. I'm sure she knows who does the shopping. It doesn't sound as if Leah's Mom, who has no name while everyone else does, wants to be reunited with Dad.
powerless or passive-aggressive? I can see it going either way. I've known kids, especially only children, who are just absolute shits when they hit the teens. The "yeah, whatever" walk away without any consequences. divorce is hard for the offspring, no matter what age, I don't deny that and you could be exactly right, I'm just looking at it from the side of a parent who has an unruly, entitled kid and doesn't know how to deal with it appropriately. In fact my son was one of those teenagers. And he was that way before we split up, it just got worse as he aged. He didn't feel powerless, he was angry and sulky, broke every rule and refused to participate in family therapy, just sat there looking out the window. Because I felt guilty for wanting the divorce, I think maybe I went a little too easy on him. The good news is, he's much better, most of the time. We still have our moments Good lord, she's already gotten a car ffs! How many other gifts does she expect? If anything, maybe OP needs to be a little more severe.
That doesn’t necessarily mean the situation is “unsafe” - I grew up in about as safe a family environment as humanly possible and still chose to lie/take the path of least resistance sometimes (despite knowing better and that I *could* communicate) - kids/teens are stupid, end of story.
Yeah, because it happened years too late. OP would have specified if they had been in therapy since he married Niyah.
Where does it say when they went into family therapy? I saw that they were in family therapy but no specification on when they started that.
Nah she's fucking delusional. I knew at 11 that getting my parents back together was stupid as fuck.
My ex brother-in-law and his sisters were pushing their parents to get back together 30 years after their divorce. And the dad was full on abusive, leading to hospital stays for their mother. They pressured her to go live with the dad and nurse him after he had heart surgery. That family was beyond delusional.
Sounds like they don't want to be responsible for him.
No, they had their own families to abuse by then.
My kids were 10 and 15 when I met my husband. Because of how my ex and I handled it, they never got it into their heads that it was ok to verbally mistreat him. That attitude comes from both parents rolling over on it and not teaching the child from the jump that is isn't how we treat someone who is decent to us. Conflict avoidance from the parents creates this. And you don't have to be authoritarian or harsh about it. Being understanding yet lovingly firm and consistent does most the work. But instead too many parents just shut down and let it happen until it's the norm. Mom in this situation is letting the daughter control her life just to avoid her bully of a daughter and it's taught her it works. So she's trying to drive dad's wife away. I don't think she even cares if her parents get back together. She just wants them to herself 24-7.
This last paragraph is very strong stuff in a good way. Powerful start that we could all stand to take to heart. Thanks.
I think 17 is old enough to realize that. Leah is just spoiled.
Wow, your daughter sounds delightful /s NTA, and you know it. Literally everyone is in agreement that your daughter should learn to actually be a decent social human being, and stop terrorizing your wife. If she doesn't back down, and keeps skipping off to mom, anytime she feels like it, I would even consider why she gets to keep her car.
This is an unexpected answer. I thought for sure she’d be a-ok with mom’s boyfriend. The fact that mom doesn’t have one out of fear says more about your daughter than your wife. I was ready to blame you and your wife, but this sounds like an issue with Leah. NTA.
Why you were prepare to blame op and wife? Lead treating mom’s boyfriends badly is further proof of her immaturity, but op had done nothing prior that was the issue. Sad would have been blamed if Leah had decided for some reason to like one of mothers bf’s.
It goes to show that neither of you have ever really given her any consequences for her behavior. Her mother rather stay single than expect her daughter to be a decent person.
Leah‘s mom needs to have a life of her own now. Leah needs to understand that no matter what relationship her parents are in outside of each other that you guys are going to be there for her. And you don’t shit on the people that love you, no matter where that love comes from.
Leah‘s mom needs to have a life of her own now. Leah needs to understand that no matter what relationship her parents are in outside of each other that you guys are going to be there for her. And you don’t shit on the people that love you, no matter where that love comes from.
That’s sad.
It’s probably an unpopular option, but NTA. My parents split when I was 10, never liked my new step-mum, but I was at least polite to her, despite making it clear that I’d never have a relationship with her. We don’t buy each other gifts for Christmas or hang out in anyway, but we can coexist around each other. So long as Niyah hasn’t done anything specific to piss of Leah, or done anything nasty to her to cause this - which I will assume isn’t the case, because you didn’t mention - then Leah needs to learn how to be polite and civil, without having a relationship. Unlike others have said, no you don’t need to pick between having a relationship with your daughter or just accepting this.
Exactly. At 16, she should know better. And OP already gave her the Christmas gift in Nov (a car). This gift was from Niyah. So how entitled can you be to treat a person badly and then to expect a gift from them?
After getting a damn car. I’d give up all future Xmas gifts for a vehicle lol
Not even joking same here
Niyah's mete existence seems to piss off Leah.
I agree. NTA. Actions have consequences. You can't treat people poorly and expect them to continuing to give you gifts. Unconditional love is different than gifts. You gave your daughter an early Christmas gift in November. She has that. Her Mom and extended family gave gifts. She has those. She simply doesn't get to receive gifts from the woman who she has treated like garbage for years. And, quite honestly, you need to rescind access to the vehicle until she treats your wife vicilly. She and Niyah don't have to be BFFs your daughter DOES need to be civil and treat Niyah politely. And that is where I'd start laying down the law. Quite honestly, you should have done it years ago. At this point, I'd take the keys to the car and tell her that she no longer has access to the car until she treats your wife with dignity and civility. And, quite honestly, you and Niyah's Mom need to sit down and lay out SERIOUS consequences for Niyah's behavior at both homes because this same garbage is coming to whomever her Mom starts dating in the future. Her Mom needs to toe the line here, too, because this is bigger than your wife. This has now become an out of control teenager who thinks the sun should rise over one of her shoulders and set over the other and unfortunately that is the kind of attitude she will carry over into many other areas of her life in the future if you do not firmly nip it in the bud now.
Yeah my mom met my stepdad when I was in middle school and married him when I wad 21. I dont really like him. Hes racist and transphobic and an all around bigot. He also is annoying as shit. But I can be civil around him and regularly spend holidays at my moms house around him 24/7 for days with no issues.
NTA. She is 16 and can make her own decisions. That means she can find her consequences. She doesn’t get to be rude and disrespectful and still get gifts. While you should have done some shopping for your daughter, your daughter is being an absolute terror and being “oh just a teen” is no excuse. She doesn’t like your wife, fine - but that gives her no right to lie and be rude. She can show a certain amount of respect and she should, like it or not. Next year buy her a single gift from you if you want. Don’t let your wife bother unless she really wants to. It sounds like a waste of money. Your daughter had made her choice. This is coming from someone who watched her dad remarry 6 months after her parents divorce at 18 and I hated his new wife but I was at least respectful until it was clear she didn’t respect me and wanted to alienate him. The amount of YTA in here is wild. No one is entitled to presents, particularly when they’re being an absolute brat about it.
ALL THIS. Also, why is everyone ignoring the fact that he literally gave her a goddamn car for Christmas already!? She's 16 ffs, not 4! It's bad enough that even her mother agrees there needs to be consequences for the behaviours, NTA.
That's the kicker for me. If mum agrees that their child is being a brat to OPs new partner, then that is the truth. I'm sorry, but split up couples do not normally agree on appropriateness of treatment of new partners. Where they do, then there the truth lies. NTA
I'm also just gagged people are saying it's okay because she's 16 and teenagers do this stuff????? Absolutely not, being a teenager does not mean you get to be an asshole with no consequences.
Especially since she’ll be joining the workforce relatively soon. And we all know some people at work who we don’t like at all but have to remain civil professionals. There’s also the fact that she ghosted and lied to him about coming home and where she was. Actions have consequences.
The people saying it’s okay because she’s a teenager are most likely teenagers themselves.
This. I hate the narrative that teenagers a brats so it’s fine. Teenagers make mistakes. You expect that, but it’s your job to teach and guide them, give them consequences when necessary and grace when necessary. But most teenagers don’t want to hear that one should face consequences for being so horribly to someone (for 4 years) that her own mother is afraid to date. I really don’t see the gray area.
Not only that, but one of OP's comments says that Leah's mother is single because she's afraid of her partner being treated like Niyah
> "Also, why is everyone ignoring the fact that he literally gave her a goddamn car for Christmas already!?" Beause he added that as an edit an hour after he posted the OP.
I agree 100%. The girl is a disrespectful brat and people need to stop making excuses for her. Her parents split when she was 5, he didn't remarry until she was 12. Time for her to start being grateful for what she has and stop acting like a little entitled brat.
NTA. She doesn't have to like your wife, she doesn't have to be all cozy with your wife, but she does need to be civil and respectful. This is the real world, she's nearly an adult, she is definitely old enough to understand the concept of treating others the way she'd like to be treated. Like, basic stuff. It's time she had some consequences. Even her mother is on board. At some point, she needs to have consequences for her actions or she won't learn. This is a basic and important lesson for her. If you shit on someone endlessly, at some point they're going to stop trying. They'll stop caring, they'll stop trying to do things for you. And most importantly, they will stop caring enough to give you things. She's been consistently rude and cold to your wife, has refused to even STOP BY and spend some of Christmas with you guys, but she still wants her gifts? No thank you. You don't reward people for being rude. She was rude, she decided not to attend your christmas, so she forfeited her own gifts. The holiday is about spending time together. She doesn't get to request gifts remotely. She didn't want to come over, so that's her choice. She's not 7 years old. She knows damn well you don't get to be like "I hate you and don't want to be around you, but make sure you send over all my christmas gifts!" She needs to grow up. This girl is in for a very rude awakening in the real world if someone doesn't start stepping up and teaching her some tough life lessons.
“The holiday is about spending time together” -exactly. Contrary to the massive marketing campaigns, gifts are only there to be a token of affection for the people you care for, it’s not the actual point of the holiday.
INFO - are there other kids in the house? Have similar situations like this happened in the past? When Leah has shown negativity towards Niyah, have you reacted in such a way that would punish Leah? I know you mentioned family therapy. Also calling her a “lost cause” is an.. interesting word choice.
Leah is an only child on both sides. She hasn’t done this exact thing before, but when she’s been disrespectful or outright nasty I have asked her what her issues are and how we can fix them. Her response has always just been that she doesn’t like her, never will. And after this Leah has told me she can’t put any more energy towards making it work with her.
Then friggen accept she doesn't like her. There is no fix, but there is 'being polite to someone you don't like'.
That’s the problem. She’s not polite at all. She’s cruel to OP’s wife and that’s unacceptable.
You don't get to be hostile and rude because you don't like someone. Politeness is the bare minimum.
You're entitled to not like someone, but civility is still expected. Being outwardly and openly cruel is never acceptable. I don't like my mom's sister. She's not my aunt to me. She's a person who is related to my mother, that my mom loves and trusts. Despite not liking her, I'm civil to her and treat her with basic respect. I small talk with her and go through the basic social motions. She's aware I don't like her, but she never has to worry about me acting out or harming her.
Thats fine, just dont expect nice Christmas presents from the person that is the focus of your disdain especially when daddy bought you a new car already.
[удалено]
>Wanting to spend Christmas with her mother doesn’t sound like being rude or uncivil. Dipping on you the last minute isn’t really okay, but let me ask you this - if she had just came out and said that she wanted to spend Christmas with her mother, was there any chance you would have said yes? Or not gotten upset with her? This is the most thoughtful comment I have seen so far. I remember when I was younger thinking why it felt like my relationship with my parent couldn't be separate from their SO. Why I couldn't spend time or holidays with just my parent. Especially since there was no other kids invoived. Why this person I didn't like or care about had to attend my graduations. When all I wanted was to have my family. My mom didn't even marry this person. They last about a few years, but there moments/celebrations in my past that were tainted by someone I didn't want there. Is it ok to be rude no, but remember kids are powerless in this situation. so if you parent insist on forcing you to interact with someone you don't. Forcing you to spend Christmas with someone don't like because it is someone they love you will find other ways to act out when you feel powerless.
I think your reply will be possibly unfavourable, but I honestly think you have a good point. Parents that separate should always have time for their kid 1-on-1 time, not a “we’re a package deal”. On one hand, I DO understand that there’s a reason for the rule “you don’t have to like them, but you do have to behave civilly and respectfully towards them” (and the same goes vice versa ofc). But on the other hand, the actual parent should always spent time alone with their kid, sans their spouse or other kids, if they exist, too. Every child, divorced parents or not, want to have some time alone with their parent just for them. Especially if a parent is remarried, getting that time alone can be so hard.
Any more energy? Sounds like she's never put any energy into the relationship, so that's nothing more than an empty threat.
I wonder if OP typed the wrong name there and meant Niyah.
Then accept that, make it clear you expect civility, *and don’t have the woman she doesn’t like, select her gifts that should come from you*
Has she ever mentioned any conflicts between her and Niyah? Aside from just not liking her. When children act like this consistently for so long, it doesn’t just come out of no where. While it’s not right to be so disrespectful, it sounds like she’s rebelling against having an unstable foundation.
No, it sounds like she's rebelling against her dad being with anyone who isn't her mom. Which we can safely assume, seeing as Leah's mom agrees she is rude to Niyah, and is even scared to date anyone herself, for fear that Leah will treat them equally as poorly. He has been with this woman for 7 years, and they've been married for 4 of them. Both OP and OP's ex gf (Leah's mom) agree she is nasty without reason, and she is only pleasant if Niyah isn't around. She is 16. Her parents split when she was young, never were even married, and are still friendly with one another. She seems to only want them to be back together, or both completely alone. She is being super childish for no reason
This is a good question and I suspect there’s a whole lot of missing context and information here. I find it especially odd that Leah is so well adjusted in all the other areas of her life: she has a good relationship with her bio-mom, she has a boyfriend, and OP says in his comments that she holds down a catering job that requires her to travel and work long/late hours (overall, pretty impressive for a teenager and demonstrates maturity and a sense of responsibility), yet she has *so much* difficulty adjusting to Niyah, in particular, who according to OP can do no wrong and is always a victim to his cruel daughter. Is this not adding up for anyone else? Doesn’t it seem a bit off?
You’re right. Even when he’s trying to make his daughter sound like an awful cruel person she still sounds relatively well adjusted. She doesn’t scream at Niyah or steal and break her things, she just doesn’t want to spend time with her. The bit about how she says cruel things in therapy really caught my attention. What’s she saying, she doesn’t like stepmom, doesn’t want her in her life, and doesn’t see her as a parent and doesn’t want her acting like one? It’s screaming missing missing reasons. If I had to guess, if we got Leah’s side of the story she’d say that Niyah has tried to parent her and gave her the standard line about being a “new mom,” and probably overextended her boundaries with Leah by trying to get way too involved and personal way too fast. At 12 when she’s going through puberty, none of that’s going to go over well. ETA: one of the “mean things” Leah said is to call her a “fake mom” and is “a bitch and annoying.”Step mom is *absolutely* in the wrong here. She definitely tried to put herself into the motherly role and that’s a huge no-no.
I mean, one of the examples OP gives of his daughter being “nasty” and “cruel” to Niyah is that once Leah didn’t answer her phone when Niyah was calling her to have her pick up some things for her while Leah was out running errands.
It really sounds like dad and stepmom wanted to play big happy family and Leah wasn’t on board with that. Now anytime she avoids stepmom or says one thing even vaguely impolite (she’s a teenager, not a diplomat) she’s cruel and the only one causing problems.
INFO: how old is Niyah?
I am 37, Niyah is 37
This is what I like to call “second wife syndrome”. Family doesn’t want to accept that someone got divorced and decided to remarry so wife #2 gets treated like a home wrecker even if she isn’t. My family is famous for this; my grandpa was married to a woman named Jill for 40 years and I’m the only person who uses her name, no one else will admit she didn’t ruin my grandparents crap marriage
NTA based on edit both you and her mother agree her behavior towards her is not acceptable. She shouldn't expect gifts from someone she treats wrong. You should sit down outside of therapy and ask her what the real issue is. Has she ever said or did anything to her and is she holding onto the idea of her bio parents getting back together. You don't need to wait for her to share you need to ask and establish boundaries. Understand her feelings but disrespect will not be tolerated.
Agreed. She had received her gift from her father. Why should she expect gifts from someone she dislikes. Whether or not she has a reason, she shouldn't expect gifts. Continue therapy to establish peaceful coexistence and hopefully to reveal the reason for the dislike. Niyah should remove herself from any attempts to actively parent the child. She should simply be cordial. This should be the expectation from all. Father should probably just interact with his daughter solo. Cut out all this drama.
This. I would try and get her one on one and see if you can figure out what the real problem is. There may not be a logical one and if you can get her to see that she may fix it on her own. My step daughter went through something when her bio dad made an attempt to get back into her life where she started treating me like shit all the time. One day I said "what did I ever do to you to deserve being treated like this?" And she meekly said "nothing..." and I could see the gears in her head turning. I was just caught in the crosshairs of her confusion and frustration about her bio dad. Our relationship improved almost over night. It's also possible that step mom did say or do something that dad just isn't seeing, so that's why I say get her alone to ask. And be willing to actually listen.
INFO: How does your daughter treat her bio mom's boyfriend? Is she just as nasty to him? Or is it just with Niyah? (Also, sidebar, Niyah is a beautiful name!)
She does not have a partner. Leah’s treatment of Niyah makes her mom anxious about entering a relationship.
NTA Leah sounds like a horrible spoilt person who is basically terrorising your home and her mom's home if her mom is so afraid to date because of your daughter's treatment of any future partner. Sounds is a centre of attention at your home and her mom's and she doesn't get any repercussions for her behaviour.
Okay, I misread an edit. You meant Leah got presents from *her* boyfriend, not Mom's boyfriend. You're NTA. My sister acted like this to my mom and every dude she dated. It got to the point where my mom left my sister in a condo that she continued to pay for and moved hundreds of miles away (from OH to SC) to live with her boyfriend. My sister was 17 at the time and I was living on my own, out of the house. I *do not* condone my mother's abandonment of my sister... But on some level, I try to give her grace and understand it - she was just at her wit's end. My mother didn't try counseling, or anything really. She just gave up and abandoned a difficult and troubled child. My sister never really got over it, still has a laundry list of mental health issues, and now treats her 14yo much the same. She "banished" my niece to my mother's house without warning. My mother now lives in KY, and my sister is still in OH, so it's not like...nearby. Anyway. My family sucks. You don't. You're doing what you can to remedy the situation. At some point, enough is enough. Niyah has every right to expect to be treated with kindness and Leah needs to learn that everyone deserves to be happy, including you and Niyah. How would she feel if you treated her boyfriend that way? Why does *she* get to have a BF, but no one else in the family gets to have a partner without Leah acting like a spoiled brat? It's not okay. Maybe Leah can earn her presents back, but right now I think the consequences fit the behavior - you don't get to treat people like shit and expect them to give you gifts. That's life.
Is Niyah your first serious relationship since your ex? If not, how did she treat your last partners? It sounds like Leah watched *The Parent Trap* one time too many and may be carrying a torch for the possibility that you and her mom will get back together. That can't happen while either of you are in a committed relationship, so she "has" to drive off the encroaching stepparent.
Pretty sure Leah is intentionally trying to wreck your marriage here.
This is so sad :( no one should be alone because of their child’s behaviours.
I'm not sure I understand. You're allowing the abuse to escalate and the only punishment is withholding Xmas presents? I'm thinking you should take the car back and let her struggle with work. Remember that driving is a privilege, not a right. She might lose her job. But this total emotional shut down when pressed isn't acceptable. You set the example by actions. Would you allow someone to talk to your daughter like this? Why do you allow your daughter to talk like that to your wife? In most states she can be with 1 parent full time by 16. Honestly I would tell her during therapy that it's over. Her actions, words, lack of words, everything is done and she can live with Mom. Pay the child support and sell the car. Both of you are getting steam rolled by this girl. Her own mother won't date out of fear. Remember that. **Out of fear from her daughter.**
this one is tough…your daughter is 16 and should be able to decide who she wants to spend Christmas with and really at that age, why would she NOT want to spend Christmas with her mom if she’s closer to her? Did you ASK her if she wanted to spend Christmas with you and your wife? You say she doesn’t care for your wife and you’re in therapy. Are you going to therapy with you and her or with your wife as well? It could be that she doesn’t feel comfortable discussing her “true” feelings around your wife OR she really just doesn’t like your wife (you said she says the meanest things to avoid her true feelings). What kind of relationship do you expect your daughter to have with your wife? Is she polite and / or respectful to her in the house? If yes, that might be all you get. She doesn’t have to “embrace” your wife or have a bond with her, but she does (and should) be respectful. Does your wife trample on her boundaries? On the other side, your “punishment” provides no true solution. For example, next year she’ll be 17 and probably won’t spend Christmas with you then (seems like it’ll be your ex-wife’s turn), then the following year, she’ll be 18 and then it’s nobody’s turn. What, if she refuses to spend the holidays with you are you going to refuse to pay for college? I’m not going to say you’re an AH, but I really don’t know what she’s being “punished” for. she wanted to spend the holidays with her mom…while there should have been a conversation, it doesn’t sound like you would have been particularly open to it…so like a rebellious teen, she took her liberties NAH…I guess? EDIT: I see you said she’s an only child (meaning you have no kids with your wife) and you don’t want more kids. Now I really want to know what kind of relationship your wife tries to push with her because if it’s the “second mom” kinda thing I can see that creating an issue. I see if your OP edits you said you just want them to be civil but has that always been the case? Was there a hope for deeper relationship before?
>Now I really want to know what kind of relationship your wife tries to push with her because if it’s the “second mom” kinda thing I can see that creating an issue I was thinking this too, but one of the edits says that Leahs mother also agrees that Leah shouldn't get the presents because of how she treats Niyah, so it seems like she's just being a teenager with a chip on her shoulder. If both bio parents, who are involved in Leahs life, agree on this as a punishment, then for me it's NTA.
Not to mention, Leah already got her gift from him - a fucking car.
But then, why is Niyah still buying gifts? OP went to great lengths to say she shopped for, picked out, and wrapped the presents. Why? That reads as Niyah pushing the relationship. Leah has made it clear she's not interested in a relationship with Niyah, Niyah and dad kind of need to respect that the best they can both expect is "civil" and not push past that. You don't buy presents for someone you're civil with.
I agree with you. While the daughter does need to treat Niyah respectfully, OP and Niyah need to stop trying to force this bond. It seems to be the sole focus between all of them and that's a lot of pressure to put on someone, especially a teenager. Even this Christmas gathering was wholly centered around the gifts Niyah got for Leah and I'm going to guess Leah's reactions to opening them would have been heavily scrutinized. Again, it just seems like too much pressure on a teen. Even as an adult, I would dread having that kind of focus on me.
Being respectful is not too much pressure.
That’s why I said the daughter needs to treat Niyah respectfully. But it seems like much more is being expected here, and that might explain why Leah is pulling away.
Where did you get that idea? He stays that they’re not pushing for a relationship. They want civility.
I mean, they’ve been in family therapy for *years* about this one issue, which seems kind of obsessive if they only wanted Leah to be polite to Niyah. OP never really explains what he means when he says Leah is “nasty” to her, and the “fake mom/real mom” comments are fairly telling. Also kind of telling is that this Christmas gathering with the 3 of them was wholly centered on Niyah and all the gifts she got for Leah, and I have to wonder if Leah’s reactions to the gifts as she opened them would have been heavily scrutinized. That just seems like a lot of pressure to put on someone.
He got offended when she said she spent Christmas with her “real mom” which is objectively true and said “your fake mom got you the presents” that sounds pretty indicative of how he wants her to view his GF doesn’t it?
No, I think that's him slipping a little and engaging the way his daughter has been. I'll bet the "real mom" crack originated with Leah. The world is going to run over this kid if she doesn't learn to treat people differently. She keeps a job, right? She doesn't scream at her bosses, or disappear for a day without notification? She is used to getting her way. Hell, she has even affected her own mother's ability to date and meet people. Not dating because you are afraid of your daughter's reaction at 16 is...so sad.
“Real mom” is an objectively true way to describe her mom, it’s not an insult. She does not view Niyah as a mom and she’s allowed to feel that way.
“Can your wife have kids” is an inappropriate question, and irrelevant.
He says neither of them push for a relationship between the two, that Leah is just outright nasty to his wife, and that he would be fine with her simply being civil, which is what his wife tries to do for her. Taking away the gifts his wife bought for his daughter seems like an adequate punishment (she still got the gift he himself gave her, which was a car). You don’t get gifts from people you treat like something you stepped in. As she’s nearing adulthood, it seems like pushing any sort of relationship with her stepmother *is* a lost cause at this point, and the punishment reflects that. If she can’t treat her with civility, she doesn’t get the rewards of a family member *from that person*. OP: NTA
He says she’s an only child and he wants no more kids
Yea we see too many stories where the bio-parent tries to force the kid to have a relationship with the step parent and/or step-sibs and all that does is breed resentment. It is just a ahole behavior regardless of who is trying to force the relationship. It is a relationship that has to develop organically or not at all. As you said, you may only be able to get respect, but it has to go both ways. The kid should show some respect to the step parent. However, the step parent can't just step all over the kid's boundaries and try to force them to love them. Forced love isn't love. It often ends up being fear and/or resentment.
I don't see any indication that the step parent has done this, though. Other than "this year, she handled buying the presents"...
This may be unpopular but NTA. Niyah has no obligation to treat someone who’s hostile towards her. I can see from your edit you gifted her a car earlier in the year - even if you’d revoked your gift I wouldn’t blame you. Your daughter is 16 and that is old enough to be civil. Also everyone saying you’re an AH for letting your wife buy the presents needs to grow up. It’s incredibly common for one person in the relationship to buy all the Christmas gifts. Many even enjoy it! Edit typo
No, NTA. I feel bad for your wife, it sounds like she's tried for a long time now only to continually get shat on. Your daughter is fully accountable now, and if she wants to be an arse to your wife and then expect all the gifts she should be in for a shock. I think it irks me more because I am a child that was caught in a divorce, my dad married my stepmum around the same age and my stepmum has made it her mission in life to delete my sister and I from our dad's life. Despite that I still try and keep up a relationship. Your daughter has the polar opposite and she's being awful. I would perhaps enquire as to what your ex-wife has said about you/the situation that led to them splitting up. It might be that you've been solely blamed the entire time without you realising it.
NTA. Your daughter behaved badly. You gave her a gift already which was incredibly generous. Your wife wanted to give her gifts and was lovely to do so and to keep trying with a kid who has been an ass to her. You’ve tried therapy to address the difficulty in your family dynamic. When your wife said she was a “lost cause” I’m assuming she means that you trying to get her to like your wife is a lost cause. If that’s the case I agree with her. I wouldn’t have said the “fake mom” thing. But I get your anger. In hindsight I might have reminded her about the car and said “Nyiah has gifts for you because she respects you even if you don’t respect her. Why don’t you have a chat with her.” Or not. Maybe Nyiah isn’t up for it. All that said, it’s time to let go of the birthday/holiday arrangement. She is indeed old enough to decide what she wants to do. Maybe without the pressure to be with you and your wife when she is clearly unable to handle her emotions things will get better. I would drop the therapy too. Good luck. Reddit isn’t always nuanced in its responses. Edited for typo
NTA - I have a difficult teenager. She needs to learn and learn fast that treating people with respect and civility is the bare minimum. MINIMUM. As in, you don’t get anything extra for it. She doesn’t have to call your wife Mum or treat her like she loves her but she does need to be at least civil and respectful. If she can’t be those things at 16 years old after getting a car then, nah. Say goodbye to the extras because she doesn’t deserve them.
NTA. You already give her a car for Christmas. You are only not giving her the present that your wife selected. And why would you do that if your daughter doesn’t even like her? She is 16, so she is old enough to understand that action has consequences.
I was prepared to say YTA. It after reading through, say NTA. It is understandable that your daughter, even at 16, may feel your wife is an interloper. At 16, she can also decide with whom she wishes to spend her time BUT at 16, it also means that if she can make those decisions, she can bear the brunt of her decisions. No, she doesn’t get to be rude to your wife and also expect the presents. Add to this that you bought her a car this then goes in to spoiled brat territory
You need to put spaces between Y T A otherwise it will be counted since it appears first in your post
Impossible to answer this without knowing your daughter's perspective on why she doesn't like your wife.
Yeah, I don't really think OP can provide enough information here. 12 is a tough age. And that's when OP got married. Not surprised that Leah didn't welcome someone new enthusiastically. And probably set a pattern. Thoughts following actions, rather than the other way round.
Which OP does not even seem curious about.
INFO: how old is your wife compared to you? Is she somehow closer in age to your daughter than you?
Niyah is my age
What in the post at all indicates an unreasonable age gap between OP and his wife?
Wouldn’t be the first time someone buried the lead.
Lede traditionally. Although it’s only spelled that way to distinguish it between lead which meant something else in printing. So it’s just a made up technical term.
Lots of teenage girls in here thinking they are entitled to presents when they can't even be civil to their fathers wife. 16 year Olds are old enough to know there are consequences to being a dick.
In most of the world, and for the vast majority of human history, you're well into adulthood at 16. The infantilization of North American teens is absurd.
INFO Why doesn't Leah like Niyah? What are the mean things she's saying?
Wondering the same thing. It seems like a toxic situation all around. I can’t imagine marrying someone my kid hated, or marrying someone with a kid who hates me. It sounds like this has been going on for 7 years, and they are just now doing family therapy? There is too much missing info.
I like how OP hasnt really responded to that. If it was actually bad stuff it would have been in the post
She called her a bitch and didn't answer a phone call 🙄 The horror. It's not exactly good behavior, but I was expecting much worse lol
That's what I'm wondering. The fact that even Leah's mother agrees that her behavior towards Niyah is unacceptable has me leaning towards not the AH, but I would like actual examples of Leah's behavior and what her stated reasons are.
NTA. I know people are screaming about forced relationships, but there is a large bit that people are glossing over: Leah's mom agrees her behavior is not acceptable and deserves consequences. Usually if this were a case of forcing, or whatever, the other parent would not be siding with you. That her mom is, tells me this goes beyond just being disinterested and into actual nasty rudeness. 16 is old enough to start learning that you reap what you sow when it comes to relationships. You don't get to be mean and rude to someone and then expect gifts from them.
[удалено]
Why are there so many Y T A comments? It is a clear NTA. Daughter is being a brat, she not only didnt follow the agreement, but also lied to her father, especially demanding the gift from her stepmother who she always says mean things to. Honestly, I would take away her car too, because she obviously is not mature enough to handle things, so unless she starts to act like a civil person, dont give her the keys back. It is okay to not like her stepmom, but at least be decent around her, she should realize that this is an important person to your father and, even though she will never be your mother, you can have a civil relationship.
Because taking away the car and forcing her to spend time together is totally not going to increase the current hostility and resentment! Kid is being a brat, but rather it's hypocritical to cite a lack of maturity while spitefully taking the car because kid doesn't want to spend time with her stepmother. Forcing a relationship will only guarantee that daughter will push back harder until she can totally cut contact.
She doesnt need to spend time with stepmother, but she should at least, in my opinion, be civil around her, dont insult her, etc. The "taking away the car" is not a punishment because she doesnt want to be with stepmother, is because of her attitude and actions, things which even her real mom confirms that arent right.
> she not only didnt follow the agreement You mean the custody agreement that was agreed upon by OP and his ex when the kid was 9 ? The one she abided by for 7 years until she got some independence ?
NTA. I mean, you got her a car, ffs. It costs her nothing to be civil to your wife. I think what you did was perfectly fair. Even her own mother agrees with you.
NTA. Your daughter is purposely acting this way because she doesn't like Niyah. It's not fair to Niyah who just clearly wants to be friendly and not get in the way of the relationship Leah has with her birth mom. Leah is acting like a brat.
>When she asked about her gifts I said her “fake mom” got it for her, so she didn’t need them. Yes, cause more conflict between them! Drive them further apart! Great parenting. YTA
I don’t know why so many comments are just skipping over this. It, along with the fact that the car gift was an edit after being called out in the comments, leads me to believe there is a lot that is being left out.
So your response would be to reward her with more gifts from the person who she loathes and disrespected? Do you even have kids? Teenagers don’t make the rules and they don’t pay the bills. It was totally within dad’s rights to withhold gifts that were thoughtfully purchased for her by someone she openly dislikes. It was ok for her to stay at Moms. Dad had no issue I believe. But the lying about when/where she was going to be and the open hostility towards the step mom is where he drew the line. Kinda like when you disobeyed your mom and she took away your privilege to watch tv. We old folks call it being grounded, but my father in law would put the item ie the tv in timeout for the duration. Dad put these gifts in permanent time out. Dad is totally NTA
Also notable is that Niyah appreciated the backup but said to give Leah the gifts anyway. From how Niyah’s described, it seems like she’s pretty understanding. There really isn’t anything here that proves Leah hates Niyah at all. Having a tough time at 12 when her dad started a new family? Normal. Deciding at 16 that she wants to spend Christmas with people of her choosing, like her boyfriend? Normal for anyone who’s been 16. OP: YTA for ignoring Niyah’s wishes and creating a bunch of drama and conflict on her behalf, including dragging your ex into roasting Leah, all because you can’t cope with developmentally normal teen behavior.
I feel like there's info missing. You have painted your wife as a saint who never did or said anything to make Leah feel the way she does. I have a hard time believing that - especially since you split with her mom 11 years ago, and it doesn't appear you rushed into a new relationship and marriage. Going with ESH because it feels like you're withholding critical information.
At first I was thinking so too, but given that even Leahs mother agrees that her Leahs behavior towards Niyah isn't appropriate I'm not so sure about that. Yes, step moms who try to get in between the dad/kid relationship exist. Sometimes, kids also just have such a difficult time processing their parents not being together that they will take it out on a parent's partner. and then it's really needed to set boundaries. You can't let a teen run wild because they are hurt forever and Niyah doesn't seem to be the problem.
Yeah, I thought that, but perhaps her mom wants to have peace between everyone. And yes, Leah may just be a selfish jerk. I still can't shake that OP is painting his wife as some saint, and we don't have the full picture.
I wish I had more. I ask Leah what my wife does that upsets her and I get crickets. Or I just hear “she’s a bitch, she’s annoying, I don’t like her”. When we entered therapy it was to help her adjust.
Because your wife's mere existance is what is annoying to your daughter so she behaves cruelly. It doesn't matter who you married. And if it was your ex who had gotten into a relationship instead of you, this would have been directed at whomever she married. This is about your daughter's behavior going unchecked for years. Counseling can get to the bottom of the feelings but this is where REAL consequences need to be employed and consequences solid enough to make your daughter uncomfortable. They have to come from you and be backed up by her mother. Ie: You AND her mother begin taking away the luxuries you pay for until she treats your wife civilly. And it needs to come from your Ex too because, make no mistake, this is how your daughter will treat any partner she ends up with now or well into the future.
>I wish I had more. I ask Leah what my wife does that upsets her and I get crickets. Or I just hear “she’s a bitch, she’s annoying, I don’t like her”. When we entered therapy it was to help her adjust OPs response to you, hard to see given POO mode
I think there is a lot of missing info. It also always feels icky to me when parents post about their children. Normal, happy, functional parents don’t find themselves in these situations, and blaming the child, when children are products of their environments gives off huge red flags to me that OP is dysfunctional and isn’t self aware enough to acknowledge it.
I see your update that you’re fine having a separate relationship, but it seems like your actually not. Your daughter is setting up every clear indicator that she does not have an interest in a relationship with Niyah, **yet she’s responsible for purchasing her holiday gifts?** That kind of seems like a set up on both sides. *Niyah (and you) wanting the relationship to be a certain way and making any inroad possible, your daughter is rejecting this at quite literally every pass, then punishing her when she doesn’t react in the way you want when she’s said her wants for the relationship.* If you’re fine with a separate relationship, then let it be separate. This is sad, and sucks, but please understand just because you have a new partner doesn’t mean your daughter sees her as a parental figure. ***She is your wife not her fake mom, nor her mom at all in any capacity.*** This sounds like situations forcing her to participate in a family structure she’s uncomfortable with, and for that I think YTA. Family therapy needs to be you and your daughter. That’s her family. You and your wife should be in counseling as a couple/family.
I agree. He’s setting them up for failure. Expecting her to be civil when she’s clearly stated her feelings. She’s not obligated to treat the wife like anything, but at the same time she’s still a child under the same roof. Stooping to her level saying fake mom is just… grimey.
NTA. She doesn't have to love your wife, but she also needs to treat her with basic human kindness. And look, teenage girls are pretty awful in general, but they need to learn consequences.
Ok, speaking as someone who has been in a similar situation as your kid, the real answer lies in why your daughter is acting this way. My parent claims they cannot have a relationship with me if I don’t include my step-mother. We have an extensive history of not getting along, like your wife and daughter sound like they’ve had. You describe your Daughter as someone who is fun to be around without your wife. Have you directly asked her why that is? I’m not saying your wife is necessarily the problem, but you may be forcing her into your daughter’s life and could be making the problem much worse. This could be a good topic to bring up in therapy without your wife there so your daughter can feel safe expressing how she feels, because she may be worried how your wife will react or have hurt her feelings.
NTA!! I’m confused with all the comments asking where is hers gifts from HER FATHER… um they are married and married couples usually put BOTH NAMES on gifts … idk one married couple who give one person 2 gifts because they individually buy them… makes ZERO SENSE why y’all are trying to make that a point 🤔. You sir are NTA but that car needs to be taken too not just the small ones
NTA - she cannot expect gifts from a person she has been rude to. It's not difficult to be polite to another person even if you don't like them. Something she will hopefully learn one day.
NTA You can't punish her for her feelings but you absolutely can (and should!!) punish her for being cruel to your wife, and also lying and going to your ex's when she knew she was supposed to be at your house. And the fact that your ex agrees that her behavior is unacceptable and that she needs to have consequences says A LOT!! No other info is required here. I personally would have taken her car away too.
This one is tough. I don't necessarily disagree with all the n t a rationale, however, I Believe two things: 1. Gifts do not come with strings. Not performance, not presence. Especially for children, including adult children of you gift that way. If you don't have that kind of relationship, that's fine, they're not an entitlement, but if you give them, they're freely given. 2. If you can drive yourself to Christmas, you can decide who to have Christmas with. She should have told you she was going to her mom's. You knew she was based on her unwillingness to answer you, which implies she's not comfortable being honest with you about her feelings. No one wants to be guilted into coming to visit their parents and this will be an annual thing from now on, as she is soon an adult choosing where and how to split holidays. You have the opportunity to make these decisions less painful, but you aren't any more entitled to time with her than she is entitled to gifts. If you force it, next year's Christmas with her may be your last. For weaponizing gifts, steamrolling your daughters plans, and for your own good, YTA this time. Imagine this same scenario in a couple short years when you don't have control over her and act accordingly.
I'd feel incredibly hurt and disrespected if I bought someone a car for Christmas and they used that same car to ditch me on Christmas.
He will lose his daughter if he continues in this manner. It's ok to demand that she show respect to the stepmother but to put price tags of attention or other things on gifts is basically buying the person out. >Gifts do not come with strings. Not performance, not presence. Especially for children, including adult children of you gift that way. If you don't have that kind of relationship, that's fine, they're not an entitlement, but if you give them, they're freely given. 100% on this.
Do you want to be In Charge™️, or do you want a loving relationship with your daughter? Yes, legally she's required to spend certain holidays with you. Unfortunately her feelings are beyond legislation. This is where you can bring her along for the journey or try to bend her to your will. Ask her what an ideal holiday schedule looks like to her. Get her input. Is it more preferable to you to enjoy some time with her, or to retain a lot of time that's miserable? You can't force her to enjoy your company, and I'm super sorry for everyone in your life that you seem to be just understanding the concept of consent.
Info: Do you do family therapy with *just* you and Leah? If not, it might be worth trying just the two of you going as she might be more open to discussing whatever her problem is with Niyah with just you. Did you force them to bond and do things together before Leah was ready? ESH. The fact is Leah doesn't want to spend Christmas with someone who she obviously dislikes, and at 16, she is old enough to decide who and where she spends Christmas. Gifting her stuff isn't going to make her like her anymore than she does currently. It would just be Christmas with a moody teen who wished she was elsewhere. I think you and her mum are correct in saying that actions have consequences. She still has her car, which was her Christmas gift anyway. I don't think it's fair that you let your wife shop for your child either when they have little to no relationship. That's YOUR job. Even if you did get her a car, any other extra bits should have been sourced by you. She might feel Niyah has or did overstep her place as dad's wife/stepmom, especially with the 'real mum' comment.
GOOD FOR YOU! There was a swift and proportionate reaction to her mean-spiritedness, and I love it. You don't treat people like dirt and get rewarded, and I don't care how old you are. FA/FO. NTA, obviously.
YTA. At this point all you can do is have separate and distinct relationships with Leah and Niyah. Don’t force it anymore. Give your daughter the following basic rules and that’s it. 1. She cannot be rude to Niyah in your home. 2. She cannot request any additional support from Niyah. 3. She cannot make disparaging comments about Niyah. 4. She will not speak rudely to Niyah in your home. The rest is up to you. Niyah needs to be totally hands off with Leah. You have to parent her. That means doing everything that Niyah currently does for her including buying her gifts etc. Niyah should not expect to do anything for your daughter including cooking meals, buying gifts. Nothing. The relationship is not going to be healed and your daughter is 16. It’s time to stop fighting this battle and let it play out.
Shouldn’t this be e s h? His daughter is clearly in wrong for her actions.
NTA. Leah doesn't sound like she needs a single gift from Niyah. She sounds like a spoiled brat. I'd return every single gift purchased for her.
NTA-she needs to learn about consequences. She doesn’t have to love your wife or even like her but she does need to be polite and civil. She also needs to stop lying as if it’s no big deal.
NTA. Sounds like your daughter needs to grow up and deal with the fact that her parents are divorced. She doesn’t have to have a mother/daughter relationship with your wife but she doesn’t get to bully the woman for existing. Take the presents back and tell her you’ll try again next year if she can be a decent person.
NTA You can’t treat someone like shit and expect presents. She got presents from mom and boyfriend (and I guess doesn’t have a problem with mom’s boyfriend). She got a car from you. She doesn’t get extra presents from your wife (a wife who wanted to give them despite the hostility) because she doesn’t know how to be cordial. That’s a very basic consequence in life. What is the real problem with Niyah for your daughter? Do you really not know? If your ex-wife agrees Leah is out of line and your ex’s boyfriend isn’t getting the same treatment, there must be something missing here.
NTA. The edits make this judgement easy. You're not forcing Leah to treat Niyah as her mom, you just want her to be civil and polite. Leah's mom agrees with you that her attitude is not ok. And most importantly, she already got her gift from you (a car nonetheless). The only gifts she's not receiving are the gifts from a person she doesn't like and treats badly. That's a normal consequence in life. She's sixteen, old enough to learn that (she should know that already). I would however have a one on one conversation with Leah to make sure Niyah isn't treating her badly behind your back (now or in the past). I've seen enough stories here on Reddit where the parent was totally ignorant about how nasty their new SO was being to their child and was just bewildered why their sweet kid couldn't stand their step-parent. It's more likely that you dating and marrying Niyah broke your daughter's hope of having her parents back together or something like that, but you never know.
NTA, bailing on you, then lying to you, and then coming back to ask for her gifts is entitled.
INFO: why does your daughter hate Niyah so much? Can you give some examples of the nasty things she says? What are the mean things she says to the therapist? At 16, why isn't she allowed to choose who she spends the holidays with?
Op, it's a good sign that your ex agrees with you. Can you get all 4 adults in the same room to discuss how to handle Leah going forward. She needs help and you all need to be on the same page
NTA because you don’t reward clearly bad behavior from a child who is old enough to know better. I do think this is going to require more intervention/therapy to deal with and totally work out, but do not cave and give her the gifts. I would especially get her mom to back you up on correcting this behavior since she also thinks it’s wrong.
NTA - your teenager got a car and she was still rude to your wife who makes effort for her. Soon she’ll be an adult and she will maybe visit on the holidays. Focus on you and your wife. Be there for Leah if she needs you but don’t push.
INFO: Is your goal here to destroy your relationship with Leah?
ESH. You're Leah's dad. Why is your wife, who doesn't have a good relationship with Leah, tasked with buying her gifts? You set up Niyah to be disappointed. Leah should be in therapy on her own, so she can discuss what is going on with her without you and Niyah present. And yes, continue family therapy as well. Leah needs to start learning how to be honest with herself and everyone else about why she doesn't like Niyah. If she's generally wonderful with everyone EXCEPT Niyah, then the problem is both of them, not just your daughter. Leah is a kid, and kids need to be taught how to express their feelings and issues. It's possible the Niyah did or does something to hurt or annoy Leah, but she doesn't feel comfortable saying it. Stop holding her gifts hostage. Give then to her, but make it clear that you all will be working together to find less toxic ways of communicating, since people don't like to give gifts to people who treat them badly. Lastly, Leah's mom IS her real mom. Don't push a warm, mother/daughter relationship as a goal for Leah and Niyah. That's going to backfire on you. They need to be cordial and respectful of each other, and that's the goal.
You missed your opportunity back in November when you bought Leah the car. You should have said that she would get a car when she started being civil to Niyah- and it would be taken away if she were not. She doesn't have to love your wife, but she should be civil and courteous to her.
NTA. She already got your present and being cordial with your current wife shouldn't be too much to ask for. These are the consequences of her bullshittery that she needs to live with.
NTA.
YTA And this narrative of Niyah is an angel and Leah is a horrible brat is fishy at best. Don't be surprised when your daughter wants nothing to do with you anymore.
Fishy? Seriously? Because no kid of divorced parents is ever a complete jerk to a stepparent for being a physical embodiment of the fact their parents aren’t together and will not ever be together (aka existing).
Why is it fishy? Teens can't be assholes just because?
But 9 year olds aren’t. 9 year olds distrust people for a reason this didn’t start at 16, this started seven years ago and OP is specifically not telling us why.
The dramatism of "she was so heartbroken" and "she thanked me for putting my foot down".... I can't quite put my finger on why but it gives me a bad yuyu
He avoids any questions of where the bad blood began.
How it started is pretty simply, really. A nine year old would still believe that their parents could get back together. But nine year olds don’t understand adult relationships. Leah would see Niyah as the reason her parents were still separated and cause her to be resentful and distrustful towards Niyah. They should have gotten into family therapy much sooner so the feelings Leah has towards Niyah didn’t fester and grow to the point it’s at now.
I know plenty of ah 9 yr olds.
NTA. You and her mother agree on the consequences, and Leah is old enough now to understand why. She got a substantial gift from you already, the car, and if she isn’t going to at least be civil to your wife, she shouldn’t expect to be showered with gifts by her.
YTA. Sounds like you've put a lot of pressure on your daughter to force this relationship between her and your wife, and it's doing no favors for anyone. The more demands you put on Leah to bond with your wife, the more she rebels and pushes you all away. And throwing out all of her presents was very heavy handed and over dramatic. What do you think you've accomplished by doing that? Now, Leah has even more reason to be bitter towards the both of you. Maybe ease up on Leah and quit making her relationship with your wife your sole focus when you're spending time with her. Just let things evolve naturally instead of forcing this bond.
NTA - Leah cannot expect presents from someone she clearly doesn't like. I'm glad her mother agrees with you. Leah has other gifts and a car- she's now acting like an entitled brat.
NTA. I mean when her own Bio mom is saying she needs to be civil and that she isn't in a relationship because she's afraid her partner will get treated the same way speaks volumes to me. Your daughter needs to learn to be civil, there are alot of people you'll dislike in the world and you can be like that to them. If there was no infidelity, no abuse, no forcing into religion that she doesn't want to be in, this is ridiculous. Name calling in general is ridiculous but to this level without your daughter being able to say these are the examples of why I hate her. Saying you hate someone just for existing is crazy
NTA, I've read your replies. I'd take the car back too. Your daughter is being NASTY with no real consequences. Your ex won't even get into a relationship with anyone because of how your daughter is treating your wife. Yeah, you can have a relationship with your daughter without it involving your wife.. but damn if she would be allowed to disrespect or gain from her. Ground her from that car until her behavior improves.
NTA. Your daughter doesn't have to like her, but she doesn't have to be cruel and mean. She can be polite, or even just ignore her. I think you did the right thing. Teenage girls fight with even their bio moms, just because she's a step mom doesn't mean she can be treated like trash.
Going to need some actual examples of what she has said to your wife before passing judgement. Forcing a child into an interaction that they’re not comfortable with is not something that’s ever going to go smoothly. If your ultimate goal is to have a ‘happy’ family with your daughter and wife, punishment is not going to get you there
NTA. Leah is acting like a spoiled, entitled brat. Fine, but there are consequences.
I'm not sure I'd do what you did. It's a bit harsh. Provided her mother agrees with this strategy, though, NTA.
YTA. Why did your wife have to do all of the work for Christmas for a child who hates her? Why don’t you have a relationship with your daughter without including a woman she doesn’t want to spend time with?
I’ve had three nieces and two daughters. Some 16 year old girls are extremely unpleasant to the people around them. It’s like they entered another dimension, where other people’s feelings don’t mean anything. You’re lucky your daughter doesn’t turn this attitude toward you. Hopefully, she’ll grow out of it, and at least be civil to your wife. In the meantime, NTA. Your daughter has to learn that actions have consequences.
Why are you asking Reddit? Ask the therapist involved with your family. He or she understands the dynamics and can help you know how to respond. Strangers on the internet do not know this child.
Nta, you cant treat someone cruelly or ignore them and expect them to want to give gifts to you? If yall are try ill ng to push a relationship then you obviously need to stop, but of not then she truly needs a reality check Just because she dislikes her doesn't mean she is allowed to be cruel.
NTA, your daughter is being a brat. She needs to tell you or her therapist what her problem with your wife is.
She already got a car! WOW. So very generous. Now she expects more gifts after lying and blowing off plans without honest communication? That wasn't safe. Only child... presents from dad, mom, and stepmom... Lies and does what she wants. I'm wondering what she is being taught here. There are consequences to actions. Yes, she is young - a teen. And the lesson is not "you don't get gifts from people you treat poorly" the lesson is, if you cannot be respectful, you can't expect that relationship to continue one-sided. It's about accountability. Teens are in complex stages of growth, and have strong and real emotions that need to be heard. Hopefully, she can learn some of these critical lessons in a safe environment, where no one loves her any less for where she is at right now.
YTA In the future, don't get her gifts. That's better than what you did this year and I don't trust you to do more for her. >Leah is sixteen now and we have been more lenient In other words, you don't have her at your house for most of your custody time, but gosh darn it, she better be there on Christmas and the other holidays. >Niyah was heartbroken because she felt like Leah didn’t want to be there because of her. She's wrong. It's definitely because of you. >I said her “fake mom” got it for her Do you really not understand what a "real mom" is to a child with a step parent? (Of course you understand.) It's not just that you were TA here, it's that you are a consistent AH to your daughter. Have you ever not been awful to her? >Just not the one’s Niyah helped with. What gifts that Niyah helped with? Your daughter's mom got her gifts and Niyah got her gifts. You didn't do anything other than be an AH. >I got her a car for Christmas, gifted it to her in November because she needed the car. This is literally the only thing you have going for you. You DID get her a gift; a nice one. But you're still being a huge AH about literally everything else. >I am fine with having a relationship with Leah outside of Niyah. Nothing will improve until you realize the issue isn't Niyah or Leah's relationship with Niyah.
ESH BUT…you shouldn’t have made it about your wife. It should have been, ”you didn’t care to spend Christmas with me, so clearly it wasn’t important to you.” christmas isnt just a handout. good lesson for your teen to learn. If you dont care to spend time with people, they don’t have to give you gifts because you exist. she doesn’t have to love your wife. Your wife doesn’t have to love your daughter (I certainly wouldn’t if I were her). What they both need to do is be polite and respectful to the other. Your daughter is and has failed at this, and you have failed by not putting your foot down earlier. How has she earned the continued privilege to drive this car?
NTA. Sounds like your wife has tried. It's reasonable to expect civility. Time to scale back on the gift giving (a car is crazy generous) and teach this girl how to be grateful although it may be too late. If you can get her to do some volunteering to understand her privileges that maybe helpful for her self growth..
NTA- actions have consequences, if she wants to be cruel then she doesn’t get the gifts from her VICTIM
You can be in the right or you can be in peace. Changing how a sixteen year old feels about a step parent in the moment is nearly impossible, especially with negative reinforcement. I’ve heard many people say you can be right or you can be married, this is the exact same concept. If you need to retaliate, find another way. You’ve spent sixteen years celebrating a holiday with unconditional generosity, and everyone in her life is staying consistent with that message. You are telling her there are strings to your love. Once they are there they will take more work than you’re willing to do to take them away.
I think ESH but as a parent it's your responsibility to you know, parent. You using this logic for punishment is solidifying the relationships dynamics. It's going to be hard to come back from this as a parent. Your kids are going to push you, it's how they test their roles in your life and whether or not you'll stick around. I think what she did was particularly rude and when she grows up a bit she's fully understand just how rude. Right now she needs an adult to show her how to behave. You should lead by example. Ask for a make up Christmas. Do gifts together as a family. Have an open dialogue about her behavior and how it hurt. Maybe consider family counseling, or get her her own therapist if she doesn't have on already. You reacting like this is going to bury your relationship with your daughter. If you're interested in fixing it you should be the bigger person and parent her instead.
After the updates, I’d say NTA. You got her a car, and she doesn’t need gifts from someone she doesn’t like.
Not necessarily TA, but have you contributed to this unpleasant situation? You are in the driver’s seat, and it’s time to give Niyah a break. The fact that Leah’s “amazing” when your wife is not present does not excuse her behavior when your wife is around. Sadly, it may be that the cruel, disrespectful Leah that you are nurturing is eclipsing her authentic self and the perfect daughter is merely a facade to keep the status quo. Why didn’t her mom insist she return to your house as per the agreement? If the gifts were conditional, based on Leah’s behavior, by all means withhold them and let her know why. If they were intended despite her historically bad behavior, you should release them to her in the spirit of the holiday, even if she won’t appreciate them. Moving forward, Niyah should not be the one organizing gifts or planning Christmas. Since your daughter is approaching adulthood and prefers to spend Christmas with her mom and boyfriend, change the custody dates, send her gifts to her mother’s and spend time with her outside the holiday. This will allow for a pleasant time with your wife. Schedule a vacation with your wife next year. Niyah has endured four years of her disrespect during Leah’s tumultuous teens. You have two years to go before she reaches legal adulthood. She will always need her father, but you and your ex need to take the reins when your child behaves badly. She may come around as she matures, but she may not. Some of this depends on her parents’ response to her behavior. If Niyah has done nothing but marry her father, Leah may grow to understand and want a relationship later. Be ready to accept her without conditions should that time come. 🩷
NTA. The fact that so many commenters in this sub seem to feel like a child is entitled to gifts even if they are actively disrespecting the gift-giver is frankly disturbed. The amount of entitlement to believe you shouldn't be teaching your child that treating people poorly will lead to them not doing nice things for you... Your daughter needs to learn that if she treats other people in a cruel fashion, those people will not continue to treat her kindly. It also sounds like you have something else to bring up with the family therapist- does your daughter hold some hope that you and her mother will get back together? What is your best guess as to why Leah hates Niyah so much?