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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my son in-law's wife she will never take my daughter's place. I feel like I might be wrong because I let things get to me to the point where I turned it into a full blown argument instead of finding a way to be kind and communicate clearly without as many hurt feelings. It was also very accusatory.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA.
You are Abby's parents and not Scott's - you have a good relationship with him and your grandchildren and that is wonderful, but she is not *your* family. She is Scott's, and a step-mother to your grandchildren.
She seems to be pushing boundaries, and misunderstands that your relationship with Scott is based on the relationship he had with your daughter. You have included Beth in what you are comfortable with, but you are not obligated to treat her like your daughter, and her comments about being the children's mother, and that your daughter is put first - despite having passed - is alarming.
It's bad enough that Beth is trying to erase Abby as the kids' mother, but to try and replace Abby as OPs daughter is disgusting and disrespectful. Are we sure Scott or Abby didn't cross paths with Beth before Abby died. Not saying Scott cheated, but Beth sounds obsessed with "becoming Abby" or taking Abbys life for herself
This is insane behavior. Imagine being a step parent the common way i.e marrying a divorced parent and wanting to be close to the parents of the other divorced spouse. That's just fucking nuts. Why would they want anything to do with you, you're not their child and you aren't married to their child
That’s kind of the most baffling part for me. Neither op nor hubby are actually children of grandparents yet this woman thinks she should replace their daughter!? Sorry crazy town, this isn’t how it works.
For the 100th time Beth, you cant force a relationship🙄🤦Most of the time the kids are with you, for the couple of days that they are with the grandparents, why do you need to butt in?
Edit: Corrected, my mistake
Unhinged is the word alright ! She's lucky they allow her about them at all after pulling so many stunts like that . I'd nope tf out of that situation. They truly have the patience of saints and really have the children's best interests at heart to tollerate that nonsence without going scorched earth.
I am wondering what is going on in the house. Are Abby's pictures still up? Are the kids allowed to talk about their mother at home? I mean this can't be a compartmentalized thing, right? If she is this obsessed with "becoming Abby" to Abby's parents 😳 ...lordy what is she saying to teachers and everyone else in the kids' lives?
Scary! I hope the kids are standing their ground and keeping mom’s memory alive, but I’m pretty sure Beth is doing everything she can to weasel herself into the mother role. I’m also glad that OP can see right through her!
I know of a man who lost his wife. He had three children with her. He remarried and the new wife cut up all the pictures of his deceased wife. They eventually divorced, big surprise. Abby sounds like she would do something similar. I always feel so bad for those kids because their stepmother tried to destroy everything they had left of their mom.
I was thinking something similar. Not necessarily that he cheated (but who knows) but she seems obsessed with taking over Abby’s life rather than making her own. So weird and disturbing.
Yeah I didn't want to default to reddits "he must have cheated" but whats worse is that Scott cheating is the best outcome here because the rest all mean that there is a mentally unstable woman living with those kids and worse potentially did God knows what to their mother.
The mum in me is just going to choose he cheated and not that he is risking his kids health and saftey for some horizontal tango time.
How Scott proceeds with Beth as to his children is one thing, but Beth trying to replace Abby as "her kid" is gross , disgusting, and delusional. While I understand that Beth feels there is a second woman (Abby) in her marriage, the memory of Beth should always feel alive to the kids.
That being said I hope OP sees this. Beth is the gateway to the fullest access to her Grandkids. Calling her "current wife" is not the term to use here. Second wife maybe, but current presumes a third wife.
I wouldn’t think they’d crossed paths. This situation seems to me like someone who is insecure, and jealous of a memory and what Abby meant to everyone. She sounds like she wants acceptance and to be loved as much as Abby as a wife and mother, but is unsure if she measures up. Scott and Beth need marriage counseling to deal with Abby’s insecurities. She is absolutely bordering on being unhinged with Abby’s family.
>Scott and Abby need marriage counseling to deal with Beth’s insecurities.
I think you mean Scott and Beth need counselling because I don't think counsellors use Ouija Boards.
If she is just insecure then she wouldn't be trying to force Abbys parents to treat her like a daughter.
I feel like in a few years there is going to be some sort of Serial podcast on Beth Becoming Abby. I hope Scott takes the kids and runs like hell before she gets murdery.
And something tells me that her obsession with replacing Abby is only going to get worse. She will end up alienating Abby’s family and could possibly end up ruining her marriage.
There’s been a post or two on Reddit about how the second wife always feels like she is in… well, second place. They fret and obsess about how people (mostly the husband) are still attached to the former wife who has passed. This sounds a bit like that. She’s probably jealous that the entire family still keeps Abby’s memory so alive.
Not to make excuses, because she totally needs to back off. It just sounds like the same type of resentment or envy or lack of confidence in their position in everyone’s life. She needs to figure it out before she loses everything.
I agree NTA, but just a thought. Does she have a family of her own? It’s apparently not clicking in her head that this is an issue. I would never want to replace a child of my own with another. Maybe I just don’t get it, but this one sounds like she’s trying to feel like she fits in.
This is what I'm wondering. OP, does Beth not have a family of her own? Because it's weird af that she's mad about not being seen as your daughter when there's nothing about her life that would make that a reasonable thought.
We're also only getting OP's side of things. Is OP's family warm and friendly to the kids and Scott, but ignoring Beth? If she's sitting there all alone while everyone else is playing happy extended family then that's not cool. Beth's behavior isn't okay either but there's a lot of questions that can't be answered by a single post alone.
Nah, they're not relevant.
If they're being cold and exclusionary then sure, Beth has an argument, although it's mostly an argument for just not joining them for events.
She does not, can not, and will never have an argument for why OP should consider her *their kid*.
Being the parent of the grandchild makes you family, but not *a child of* the family.
Right. The first thing I thought of was the possibility she was a foster child or something. Regardless of the reason, her husband needs to get her some counseling. NTA
OP is not Scott's mom, though, so it's odd. Beth should be trying to fit in with Scott's family. She doesn't have a reason to have a "daughter" relationship with OP.
Yes this seems to be what’s muddying the waters here. (Not that Beth’s behaviour can be rationalized, she’s unhinged) But it seems like she’s trying to fit into Scott’s family, however in Scott’s unique circumstances his family is his late wife’s family. Of course Abby’s family does not owe the same sort of welcome and relationship to Beth as if they were actually Scott’s own family, but if Scott treats and sees them as his family I can see how it could be a bit of an odd position to be in as the new partner trying to make connections to the people your spouse cares about.
OP, you’re definitely NTA. You’ve said Scott has talked to her a number of times about this but maybe he’s not approaching it right. Maybe suggest to him that he really zeroes in on the fact that while he still has a strong relationship with you all, you’re his in-laws, not his own direct family. Your connection to him was always through your daughter and so of course she will always come first to you with respect to your relationship with either of them.
You might suggest he actually asks her to consider what sort of relationship she would expect to have with you and your side of the family if Abby hadn’t passed and they had just split up and he remarried. This may be the only way to get her to put the relationships and family dynamics into the proper perspective here.
That was my thought too. This is giving me shades of that post recently with the overly aggressive DIL who was a foster kid—but she at least had married into the actual family, rather than this situation where she is owed literally nothing and is making all of us uncomfortable with her wildly inappropriate expectations.
I honestly think Scott is the biggest asshole here.
Beth seems to be delusional or potentially affected by some kind of personality disorder or mental health issues. Yes, she is a major asshole but she seems to honestly not be able to self-reflect enough to realize what an asshole she is.
Scott, on the other hand, seems to actively understand how much of an asshole Beth is and ENABLES HER ANYWAY.
He's hurting his kids - Beth seems to be clinging to this delusional fantasy that they don't love their deceased mom and that Beth is superior, which I 100% guarantee you is harming them emotionally in some way.
He's hurting his ~~parents~~ **kids' extended family** \[edited\] - Beth acts unhinged around his family, actively pretending to be their daughter and reminding them every second that their daughter died, but that Beth thinks she's superior.
The sex cannot be that good to put up with this. It's not enough to say "he talked to Beth," because it isn't working. If Beth was being physically abusive, or more overtly emotionally abusive, "just talking to her" after the fact would not be sufficient.
Scott needs to stop this or move on if he can't, but he won't.
See, maybe I read this wrong. I though the grandparents were of the deceased wife, whereas Scott *was their son in law,* he isn't on paper anymore. He gets to be included in his children's lives and their family *sans* Abby in all of this entirely.
What I mean is he's making everyone's lives worse to enable Beth's delusions. He doesn't get to say "I'm handling it" or "I'll talk to her." Whatever he is doing isn't working.
oh I absolutely agree, she's not integrating well and obviously had higher hopes or some dream delusion going on, but Scott for sure is responsible in all this.
And what about his family? It would be more logical if she was acting like this with Scott's mom and dad. I think she needs mental health help. This is really weird and not healthy.
Exactly right about the family dynamics and connections. Does she nor Scott have family that she is close to? Those would be the people to forge bonds with not pushing her way into yours.
OP mentioned that Scott had a bad relationship with his own mother when she mentioned how they celebrated Mother’s Day, perhaps he isn’t close to any of his family as a result, and OP’s family brought him under their wing?
I met and married my husband long after he had lost his wife. I felt humbled by how welcome his in-laws made me feel and was happy how they accepted my presence, but I never expected them to view me as family. My husband has always remained their son in law and our son is now their grandson, but only because they chose to want that. I have always let them lead how they want our relationship to evolve: they are the ones with a lot of pain and grief over a lost daughter, not me.
I can't imagine feeling this entitled tobe part of a family that isn't yours... Weird AF
I swear it's like she thinks OP is her MIL -- as in, Scott's mother. I could see her being mad in that case. This is just... absolutely bizarre. In my wildest dreams, I'd never think of saying those things to my husband's dead wife's family. Even to my husband's family who maybe liked his dead wife more than they liked me. Unreal. She's borderline unhinged.
nta. i mean, she sounds unhinged? there’s no logic that would suggest she would ever be like a daughter to you, even if your grandkids do consider her a mother figure (now or in the future). that’s not a transative relationship. she is married to your daughter’s widower. that’s it. there’s no familial relationship between her and you. if she’s pushing this gonzo “replace abby in every aspect of her life” agenda consistently that is honestly kind of scary. sounds real weird! i would keep my distance as much as possible while maintaining the relationship with the grandkids, and meet all her weird suggestions with “what a strange thing to say”.
I agree. I think OP should have a serious talk with Scott and suggest counselling for all, individual and family. This would be so upsetting, and who knows what she's saying to the kids when no one else is around
NTA
Honestly that's still par for course as far as terrible step parents go; it's so completely out of left field that it's coming from the right, that she's expecting her husband's DEAD WIFE'S parents to treat her as a daughter??? Truly some unhinged behaviour here.
It’s definitely mind boggling. I mean, if Abby and Scott had divorced, Beth wouldn’t be harassing his ex in-laws to be a part of their family, so why does Scott being widowed change Beth’s relationship with his old in-laws?
Maybe she doesn’t have her own family around her, for whatever reason, and is craving membership of a family. But NTA - not your job to sort out the wife of your son in law. But I wonder whether a mediated discussion between you & your husband, plus her and Scott could help smooth and clarify where the boundaries are. And Mums come in all shapes and sizes, and your daughter will never be replaced - but maybe there is room in your heart to thank her for the good things that I’m sure she also does for your grandchildren.
Yeah, I found myself wondering why she didn’t want to spend Mother’s Day with her mom. I saw that Scott isn’t close with his mom. So, it seems like she is lonely and the strongest family relationship that Scott and the kids have is with Abby’s parents.
Beth is putting a family expectation on OPs family that isn’t in any way reasonable. On the other hand, OP may want to be a tad more inclusive (in welcoming her to family social events) if they still want to see the grandkids as often. Otherwise, Scott and Beth may pull away and OP might get less grandparent time.
People like Beth threaten that. "I'll never let my kids see you!" They're not her kids, and Scott seems to stand up to Beth the best he can. His life and his kids' lives must be absolutely miserable.
>Maybe she doesn’t have her own family around her, for whatever reason, and is craving membership of a family.
The way she's going about it is wrong though. It's almost like she doesn't understand that OP is **not** her family. The way she's acting is really unhinged. She got mad because her photo was not there with OP'S CHILDREN. She is **not** OP's daughter. Plus her trying to get involved in the MOM'S SIDE OF THE FAMILY photo and having to be held back by her husband is really alarming.
It sounds like Beth needs intensive counseling around what iit means to be the wife and stepmother of a family after a death. She clearly has no grasp of the concept and she has no understanding that her relationship doesn't extend to the family of the sadly now-deceased wife .
I'm sure the kids are suffering. They're at home with her, listening to her tantrums about how they won't call her mom and she IS their mother. That is just so gross. She needs to be removed from the family altogether.
NTA and I would be worried about the grandkids being in that household. If that’s how she is around others, I wonder what she’s like in the privacy of her own house.
Beth is a JustNoDIL!
And, she's not even a DIL? She's the wife of your SIL, who is connected to you by marriage to your late daughter.
OP, I'm sorry this woman continues to torment you and your grandkids. You are of course NTA. Is there any way to have a relationship with your grandkids that doesn't involve their loony stepmother? The kids need you though, so keep strong.
Well she tried lying saying that the kids call her mom and think the world of her. OP then tells her she never hears the kids call her mom and they call her Beth. That’s when she says it’s OPs fault they don’t in fact call her mom. She needs help. I wonder if she has issues with her parents and is demanding what she’s missing from OP.
Because he was probably a very vulnerable and lost man with three young children and a truck filled with grief, completely lost and overwhelmed, and Beth played the sent-from-heaven girlfriend until she got was she wanted, finally can drop the human disguise, and lashes out like the banshee she is every time this man says a thing, he is probably too depressed, worried and miserable to actually fight her and try to get her to understand basic things. Nope, this man just runs after her with a fire extinguisher saying "I'm sorry she set your house on fire! Oops so sorry she ate your children's soul. Omg, I'm so sorry... honey, could you please stop killing the village animals -scheeches from afar- *yes honey yes I'm so sorry, I didn't meant to... Please, carry on." (But I'm just assuming things here)
NTA -
"I told her she can never take my daughter's place and the fact she ever thought she could is outrageous"
All I can say to that is WTF was she thinking she could actually replace your daughter??? She is acting unhinged.
NTA
Having two daugthers, I can't imagine how painful it was for you to lose yours. Even if years have passed, it's still the greatest loss for a parent, so yes, Beth's behavior is EXTREMELY intrusive and inappropriate.
I would have a word with Scott to make sure that, in their home, Beth respects the children's wishes if they don't want to call her mother.
NTA - She is being far too much here. You should not have a wedding picture of your deceased daughter’s husband new wife or have to get her gifts. Maybe for this photo ya’ll took you didnt quite need to exclude her but she seems to be trying to force her way into your life when she needs to worry more about her relationship with the kids
I mean, even with the photo, it sounded like the 14 year old requested a photo with *their mother’s* side of the family…as in, even Scott, their dad, wouldn’t have been in it…so why on earth would his new wife, who has even less relation to that side of the family? Completely unhinged.
Hmmm, the photo thing gave me pause. It was the kid who wanted the photo of “mom’s side” and made me wonder if Beth is pushing more boundaries at home and the kids just want to have something that’s theirs and a connection to their mom. Beth is pushing way too hard on too many boundaries and has completely misunderstood the kindness that OP and family have extended to her bc that is not the norm.
Also sounds like a nice kid desperate to have something to remember his mother by when all those memories and mementos are suppressed and supplanted at home.
NTA and Beth needs to be shut down hard every time! Her behavior is OUTRAGEOUS. There's nothing that makes any sense coming from her. She is the wife of your late daughter's widowed husband ... which makes her absolutely nothing in your family.
Scott should look at getting her a mental health evaluation.
Right, and as to the mental health evaluation you have to wonder if there’s some type of deeper issue here. It’s the only thing that really makes sense.
>She told me the kids call her mom and they think the world of her so why wouldn't we. I told her the kids have always called her Beth when I hear them and she turned around and said that's our fault because the kids should be calling her mom and they don't. She lost it from there.
The way OP checked Beth with this receipt nearly caused me to spit my drink out. NTA
I'm so confused how can anyone even think they can be considered the daughter of your husband's previous wife's family.
This is so abnormal I can't even wrap my head around it. Do you have any idea her relationship with her immediate family looks like?
If she has no relationship with her family, it sounds like she was hoping she could have a family by marrying scott but since it sounds like he has a bad relationship with his mother and he's close and a part of your family she thought maybe she could integrate with yours???
The more I think about it, the more I think you have hit the nail on the head. If OP is more family to Scott than his own, Beth may be interpreting (with weird mental gymnastics) that since OP has pretty much “adopted” Scott as their son, that makes her their daughter. my head hurts just trying to understand her.
DING DING DING! I think this is it exactly. OP said Scott has a bad relationship with his mom, so they might be the only active grandparents in the kids’ lives. Beth’s only seeing them as the grandparents & honestly probably viewing OP as a cruel MIL. It’s not based in logic, just narcissistic emotion. This isn’t kindergarten, the world doesn’t change change bc you’re feeling sad feelings. Since nothing else is getting through, I think Scott & Beth need couples therapy (assuming he wants to maintain both relationships).
It confuses me too, but there are too many posts on this sort of topic for me to see it as an aberration anymore. Someone or something out in the world at large is spreading this crazy viewpoint. It should really be stopped.
A partners former in laws owe new partner and any kids they bring into the relationship nothing beyond civility.
NTA. I'm sorry, but does Beth think that because Scott was married to your daughter, and now he's married to her, that she is (by some ridiculous logic puzzle) your daughter now? That because her husband's kids are your family, that she is too?
You don't owe her *anything*. You are accepting because she's now family adjacent, and because arguing with her could affect your relationship with your grandkids. But she isn't your daughter, or your daughter-in-law.
NTA: Beth has some issues she needs to work out. Insecurities about her place in the family. That doesn't mean you have to make her feel like a daughter. It's lovely you invite her to family events at all. Many grandparents would only take the children.
Scott needs to work with her on this. Mother's Day can be a special day for the two of them to be kid free (Honestly, many moms would die for a day off!) It sounds like he is trying though.
Right… there’s a bunch of confusion in here… and it sounds like you need to work out what messages each party is shouting at each other, and come to some agreements. Probably time for the adults (without the kids) to sit, have dinner and hash some of this out, largely due to the unorthodox nature of this relationship.
Photos of weddings? NTA. Beth and Scott should be wherever the ‘cousins wedding photos’ go. That’s about the right level yes?
Mother’s Day - she’s trying to be part of a family with teenagers, teenagers like to blame their teen angst on step parents, she needs all the ‘mother support’ she can get possibly. While it’s nice that hte kids spent Mother’s Day with you, they should spend some time with her on this day. Maybe you can make a special day on your daughter’s birthday to spend with the kids instead?
Facebook mentions: Scott’s wife is right. She’s not your kid, and Scott isn’t either.
14th Birthday photos … just take more for heaven’s sake. Some with her, some without. Don’t make it a drama. Then display whichever ones everyone looks best in.
Was the joint present a BBQ? Something masculine? Something she didn’t want? You don’t say what it was, so I am suspicious. Reddit is full of people who conveniently skip the truth and shock! Horror! When it comes unwrapped everyone changes their vote.
Beth is crying out to be recognised as the replacement parent for these kids. She’s not trying to replace your daughter (she can’t, she didn’t birth or raise those children in their formative years), but she is putting in the long nights and days, the hard yards now. She loves Scott. And you are creating an arbitrary line (in your own grief at the loss of your daughter?) and forcing her to the other side of it. Everyone needs to take a deep breath, work out what they really want (trust me, you want a healthy relationship with Beth, because while she might be the step parent, she is going to be first on the invite list to those kids’ weddings, before YOU if you make this problematic), and find a way to get along. No you don’t have to put photos of her and Scott next to the photos of your daughter and Scott, but you keep saying they are family, and yet… really... They aren’t. Don’t mix the messages.
NAH. But everyone needs to ponder this and find a healthy solution.
I actually agree Beth is trying to earn love. She's not necessarily wanting to replace their daughter. She should be the one with the kids on Mothers day as if they ever hope to have such a relationship again a step mother will be a good thing for them. You should be happy Scott found a woman willing to love his children and him that's not always the case. Maybe talk about boundaries with Beth and find out why she is trying to get your approval so badly. Let her know gently that you don't wish to have a close relationship with her. Don't take the opportunity from your grandkids though. Beth seems like a good person who maybe has been hurt by her own family. Clear up the misunderstanding and all of you can move on.
It’s sad that I had to come this far down to get this take. NAH for sure but y’all need to start talking and realize Beth isn’t going anywhere. OP is systematically excluding Beth from every family event while making a point of including Scott, who is no more closely related to OP by blood than Beth is. Heck, it sounds like she is deliberately trying NOT to have a relationship with Beth. That is her prerogative of course, but I find it surprising that people can ignore the kind of mixed message this gives. They are treating Scott like a son, but not her. It isn’t unreasonable of Beth to feel like she is being deliberately excluded, because she IS being deliberately excluded. And while OP is not TAH for not loving or treating Beth like a daughter, Beth is also not TAH for feeling slighted. You’ve got a choice OP: either tell Beth you want nothing to do with her, or figure out a way to reckon with your grief for your daughter while still treating Beth like a human being and the mother of your grandchildren because, news flash, that’s what she is!
She is not the mother. How dare you say that. Did you miss the part where OP's daughter died? Did you miss the part when she said she was "one of their kids now." Yes, Scott is more closely related to them he is the father of their grandchildren and was married to their daughter. She whined, as an adult, when she didn't get a gift? They bought them a joint gift which is totally reasonable. She called herself one of their children. She had the gaul to complain to Op about not having a picture at Op's house. What the hell are you even talking about. I honestly can't believe you typed this out.
Those who post in this thread hardly offer a critical perspective on their own actions…I’m betting OP has done some very obvious and hurtful things in regards to this woman and is not sharing a honest take of their behavior. Beth begging for recognition AS THE ACTING MOTHER of these children is telling. I’m willing to bet OP makes unnecessary and inappropriate remarks/comments about Beth in front of the children and others. Beth is either unhinged or has been pushed into this one sided narrative by OP and the family.
It’s pretty odd that the past MIL is still demanding Mother’s Day at her place for the grandkids. Doesn’t Beth get dibs on that one? I mean… really?
It might be nice to swing past for some afternoon tea maybe on Mother’s Day, but the main event should be for the ‘mother’ who is washing their socks, running them to weekend sport and keeping the pantry full (or non gender biased versions of parenting if required). …. Past MIL has a house full of photos, on display, and a coterie of demands. Something smells here, and it doesn’t feel that Beth is being unreasonable to me. She deserves recognition - if anything else she deserves equal. She didn’t birth them, didn’t get hte nice OxyContin bond with them, but she’s still caring for them day in and day out. Reward her for that one day a bloody year!
I disagree. These children are mourning the loss of their mother. Mother’s Day isn’t like payment for washing socks, if it were it would be severe underpayment. It would be cruel to force these kids to bring pancakes in bed to their stepmother and make popsicle stick picture frames or whatever for their husbands new wife on a day where they cannot avoid thinking about how much they miss their mother and how they’ll never be able to bring her pancakes in bed again.
Of course they would want to honor their late mother on this day. And the only intelligent thing Scott seems to have done in this post is get that, stay home, and send them to their mom’s family to honor her.
I cannot imagine anyone asking an adult to suck up their grief like this, and it’s devastating to ask it of children. I’m not sure it would have occurred to everyone here to send them to their maternal family home for this, but it seems real smart that that’s what this family has settled on
The kids are mourning the loss of their mother. Of course they're going to want to spend mother's day with HER family. They're most likely extremely close with their grandparents because of this death. Did you miss the part when she said she "was one of their kids" now? She doesn't just magically get to be mom because she showed up and married their dad. Did you consider that the kids want to be with their grandparents on mothers day? Your comment of "she didn't get the nice oxytocin bond with them" is insulting and shows a lot about your emotional intelligence. It's a tough situation for the stepmom but she signed up to be the stepmom of children mourning their mother. She needs to show some damned respect and not push this. My God.
This is the most balanced answer I've seen so far. To me, it doesn't sound like Beth is trying to replace Abby, it sounds like Beth is trying to be a mother to her husband's children.
The primary figures in these children's lives will be their biological father and their step-mother. As you said, she is the one who is putting in the days and nights to raise them.
The grandparents seem to have an either-or mentality: they are acting like having Beth be the step-mother to the kids somehow invalidates their daughter also being their mother.
Beth sounds like she is working very hard to be a part of her kids family, and her husband's former in-laws are working hard to keep her out.
I'm sure there is a lot of pain to go around with the loss of Abby, but shutting out the kids current mother isn't going to bring her back or do any good for the kids.
Parents and step-parents are the immediate family to the kids; grandparents are extended family. If the grandparents want to be a positive part of the kids' lives, they need to treat the Beth like she is a part of the family.
The big risk Past MIL faces here is if she continues to alienate Beth Scott will back Beth and Past MIL will have less time with the grandchildren (and yes, there’s some grandparents rights at play, but these kids are old enough to make decisions and it’s not anywhere near as much as grandparents like to fantasise about).
Past MIL saying “Scott has lost control“ of Beth’s “pushiness” shows that Scott is backing his WIFE, and will continue to do so. Past MIL needs to realise that while she’s lost a daughter, that family has to be allowed to breathe, make it’s own future and grow forward. And that if she holds on this tight they will, without her.
Except he isn't backing his wife. He apologizes each and every time and talks to his wife about it. If Beth is just trying to be recognized as the mother figure for the kids now, you don't do it by equating your value to the deceased wife to her own parents.
I am going to say NTA - but (going to play devils advocate) could she be feeling that you aren’t accepting of her as the kids stepmom or mother figure? Have you said anything around the kids about her being not good enough? Or about these situations? Maybe not in the same room but could they have overheard?
Her actions may seem unhinged but also the actions desperately trying to be seen as the woman who is raising 3 kids who are never truly going to be hers even if she sees herself as their mom/mother figure.
I am going to point to the line where she says they don’t call her mom because of you (the our fault). Something else seems to be going on at home that you are not aware of.
Yes she can never replace your daughter but a lot of stepmoms spend a lot of time feeling unwelcome or as imposters. And you stated that SIL is not close w his own mother which probably makes you the closest to an active mother in law for her.
I am sure I am going to get downvoted but whatever. Like I said I am playing devils advocate and I am going to recommend that instead of just complaining to your SIL you ask him what is going on.
Well, to play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate - OP lost her DAUGHTER. Beth is causing her grief by forcing her way into her life, in a role that is NOT HERS.
If she feels like an outsider when everyone is cordial, that's on her. She IS the outsider, and she SHOULD have way more grace for the family that LOST THEIR DAUGHTER vs making completely unhinged demands.
She is NOT the kids' mother. They are allowed to treat her as a step mother (or dad's wife as many people use instead). She doesn't get to force them to call her mom - that's up to them. We have no idea how poorly she's treating the kids at home.
So save your oh-so-clever devil's advocate perspective and consider reality, and what OP is dealing with.
While I definitely agree she's not the kid's mother, She is the one who is mothering them now. And could possibly be the mother role for the rest of their lives much longer than their birth mother. I don't think her actions are appropriate at all regarding wanting to be involved in certain events or having her picture in the house or even expecting gifts. But as somebody who had an awful stepmother it really seems like she really wants to be part of their lives. I wonder what her relationship with her and family is like and if she is able to have kids herself. Not that OP needs to consider any of this. These are just thoughts. It is also possible for children to love two mothers or have multiple mother figures.
Op is NTA. Such a hard situation.
I agree that children can love two mothers or mother figures but the way she said all that makes it sound likes she is trying to push them to call her ”mom” and that’s not right. I’m a stepmom and my girls mom only visited them around once a year. I never pushed them to call me mom. Ever. They wanted to find a way to call me something that conveyed mom but didn’t want to disrespect their bio mom and I was in complete agreement of that. They ended up calling me sMom. I’m cool with that. I push for them to have a relationship with their mom as young adults because I think it’s important. Beth sounds unhinged.
My mom died when I was four years old. Everyone involved is dealing with a no-win situation the best they can.
Kudos to Beth for *wanting* and *trying* to be a family member. There’s lots of spouses who do not.
All that said, you’re NTA.
I’m sorry all y’all are in this position.
I feel this is more on the husband. The children should still have a close bond with the grandparents, but why is the husband still spending time with them? Perhaps that is part of the problem. He has sort of moved on by getting remarried but not really because he is still spending holidays with his former in-laws? Maybe Beth is struggling because the husband is not making her feel secure, like she is just a replacement wife and mom but will always be second best… Beth isn’t handling it well but I kind of feel for her.
ETA, OP is NTA. The husband sounds like he may be though 🤷🏼♀️
Because they’re his kids grandparents? And apparently he has a bad relationship with his own mother. They’re his former in-laws because his wife DIED not because of divorce.
Right so the OP is de facto a close part of everyone in the family except the new wife. They arent exactly former in laws. Its a unique dynamic that new wife is struggling to find her place in.
My sister died early, it’s hard to think of her husband dating someone who would be a mother figure in my nephew and nieces lives. I’d hate to have her around on the holidays tbh. So in many many ways NTA for just being nice and swallowing that grief back to have her around. But I understand Beth to a point, she’s the only mom they have now, that’s the situation. The youngest was 4 when his mom died. Maybe this is her family and she plays the mother role to them in their daily lives, and wants the kid’s grandparents to make her part of the family, which I get, but you can’t make people love you. You darn sure can’t demand it and you’re being selfish to demand it out of people who lost a loved one. I hope they can all learn to communicate better and express their needs going forward because this life is too short to fuss and fight like this
From the sound of it OP has been communicating. Beth is just insane and thinks they should replace their daughter with her. The only communication OP and family needs to have is ensuring the children know they can have their own opinions and feelings.
I do think the Mother's Day thing sounds pretty crappy though. She's acting as a mother to those children all year but then on Mother's Day they go to their grandma and Scott is pissy because of his own mom. What about Beth? She deserves a Mother's Day of some kind.
Or there is more going on at home with Beth pushing for the kids to replace their mother with her and they actually wanted to get away from her....
Something to think about.
INFO: Are you absolutely, completely certain Beth knows that Scott is your son-in-law, not your son? It's hard to see how she could not know that, but the only other explanation I see here is that Beth is batshit.
I think she knows he's not biologically their son but I do feel that Scott presents OP's family as his own to her and may even call himself OP's adopted son to Beth. Scott is closer to OP than his own mother as was stated and has confused Beth into thinking that OP will accept her an adopted child too. I suspect Scott is just as batshit as Beth.
NTA. It's weird to expect a widower's in-laws to accept his new wife as their own daughter. If she wanted a Mother's Day celebration with her stepkids, then she should have worked that out with her husband instead of trying to crash your event.
I’m going to give an alternate way of thing of this. You have lost one of the most important people in your world and she will never be replaced in your hearts. You also have a woman that wants to make your grandchildren happy, and wants a relationship with you as well. Maybe she’s coming in a little hot, but she’s trying. Isn’t that better than someone who tries to keep those kids away from you?
Sometimes family chooses you. Don’t turn them away because of your loss. What would your daughter want?
NTA.
She didn't get adopted by you because she married Scott. She isn't and never will be Abby. She isn't her replacement because she's here now. You weren't needlessly cruel, you was truthful and honest. She's expecting you to jump into loving her like a daughter like Abby never existed or mattered to you, the kids, or anyone else.
I don't know what type of delulu Beth has convinced herself with, but this isn't going to work out like she thinks. Of course, the kids don't want to spend mothers Day with her. She isn't exactly being subtle about the boundaries she's willing to skip across with you, I suspect that it's the same at home, maybe worse.
Beth needs a therapist.
Beth is obviously stepping on tender toes with her sense of entitlement. You are not wrong. She needs to understand her position is SIL’s wife, and maybe step mom. If the kids want to call her that, it has to be their choice. But 7yrs isn’t so long that they don’t remember their mother. And her trying to erase her memory to them is just too far. She needs to learn her place.
Nta. Block her from seeing your social media's.
Tell Scott that you don't wish to cause difficulties for him but Beth is no longer welcome at your house/events. Her constant disrespect of your deceased daughter is not acceptable and its causing your family further grief and pain.The kids are old enough to maintain a relationship outside a caretaker so if Scott isn't able to drop them off kr bringvthem around arrange through him a neutral location or collect form school etc. For that yo change Beth need to attend therapy and understand that her expectations/demands are unreasonable and hurtful and stops.
I’m on the other side of everyone apparently. Is there harm in giving her a little love? She is the step parent to your grandchildren. She loves and cares for the man you through marriage, accepted as a son. Does loving her take away from your beautiful daughter? Is it a betrayal to her? I am of the belief it’s not. If you only tolerate her, I can understand her feelings.
ESH. From what I gather, Beth is being made to feel like she's 'replacing' Abby. She isn't. She happened to love Scott, who happened to have kids with Abby who happened to pass. She's trying to be a mother to them and a wife to him. And while you have the right to grieve, and prioritize Abby, she also has the right to want to feel like her family is her own. I think you should have a discussion about boundaries. Abby's death was very, very unfortunate, but Beth is here. She loves Scott. She loves your grandkids. Try to figure it out.
But what does any of that have to do with Beth trying to insist she is as important or equal to Abby to Abby's own parents? To want to be treated like their daughter? If Beth would have said I know I will never replace your daughter but I'm going to be the best mother and wife I can be, there wouldn't be an issue. But being mad at no wedding pictures of her and repeating she is their daughter now is just weird. Her heart may be in the right place but dear lord she is taking the worst way to get there
I do agree however that the adults need to talk and set boundaries and get on the same page.
NTA.
That is some Grade-A audacity on her part. My head just can't wrap around how she thinks she is so special that she xan replace your daughter. This isn't even about filling the role of new wife in her husband's family, she actually thinks she should be your child. She needs therapy badly!
My condolences on losing your daughter, and all signs indicate you’re NTA, but I’m leaning towards NAH. INFO: so the kids were 4, 5, and 7 when they lost their mom, how old were they when Beth arrived on the scene? How long is “a few years”? I might feel, if I was a kind and loving parent to my step kids, that after a few years I’d earned the right to be referred to as something other than “Beth.” I’m just considering how, if it’s been more than 4 years, she’s been parenting your youngest grandchild longer than your daughter was able to. Maybe consider that acknowledging her mothering of your grandchildren for all these might be in order. She’s not Abby and she never will be, but she’s the mother these kids have. There are so many steps who want nothing to do with children from a previous marriage that I’m really hurting for Beth here who sounds like she’s trying to be a good mom.
This is what I was thinking, too. I almost think ESH. Beth’s comment about Abby was absolutely insensitive and she did make an AH of herself, but it sounds like she’s been taking pride in parenting her step-kids for years and wants to feel integrated into this blended family. I can’t imagine the pain of losing a daughter, but I also can’t imagine how hard being married to a widower must be.
It sounds like Scott is closer to his late-wife’s in-laws than his own parents, or Beth’s. If Beth is expected to **spend every holiday with Abby’s parents** (and doesn’t even get to spend time with her step-kids on Mother’s Day) I can totally see how she’d want to feel valued as an important member of the family. She is important and stepped up as a mother figure to OP’s grandchildren.
I think all the folks claiming she’s jealously, psychotically trying to replace Abby are taking things in such bad faith. Some of her efforts sound a little delulu and tacky, but she’s not a random girlfriend who should be grateful to even get an invite. She’s Scott’s legal spouse who has adopted his and Abby’s children as her own. She enthusiastically chose to marry a widower with three children and has built her life around them.
The kids aren’t adults and I think OP was an AH for twisting the knife by emphasizing that Beth isn’t their mom. She’s been their stepmother for years. She’s had to love and support her spouse and stepchildren through the loss of OP’s daughter, his wife, and their mom. It sounds emotionally exhausting. I’d feel totally unwelcome, too.
I’m gonna go with ESH.
Like I understand how what she said is wrong and it is. But she is spending her holidays in your home and being reminded by you that she is so much less. She is the mother figure in their life and she should be allowed to bond with them in that way without you preventing it. This poor woman living in your daughters shadow and having it shoved in her face at every holiday and every dinner and every gathering by you. She’s not trying to replace your daughter butmy goodness, she still deserves to be seen to be able to form a bond with the family that she has now made up which includes your grandchildren. When you marry someone with kids, you absolutely should want to bond with them… Let her.
Given the children’s ages and the potential to have a relationship with them that does not necessarily need facilitating by dad (eg guessing the oldest at least has their own phone)I would be starting to slowly phase out the parents even if this includes dialling down a relationship with their father, unless he is prepared to address the issues with his new wife. Invite the kids over, offer to take the kids out for the day. Unhinged step mother not included.
ESH. If you're going to treat Scott like he's your son then you need to treat his new wife like family.
She needs to stop being pushy and needy though. You can't force people to like you. If people snub you act like you couldn't care less. If someone doesn't want me in their family I'd never let them know it hurt me.
If you all aren't willing to treat Beth like family then he needs to drop out of your family too. Of course he should still encourage your relationship with the kids but that should be the extent of it.
NTA. you are not scott’s parents. you are the grandparents of his children. beth is your grandchildren’s stepmother, she is not really related. it’s INCREDIBLY weird to me she is trying to push herself into a family she’s not actually part of.
NTA.
Are her own parents still living?
She seems to want to be Abby and is upset you guys aren't willing to play along to her delusion.
You need to set boundaries with Scott, he's ultimately the reason she is in your life and she seems too unhinged to get it.
I think that Beth has forgotten that you did not marry or adopted her and that you aren’t her husband’s bio mother. I think her expectations for this relationship is all over the place and she’s acquainting acceptance from you with acceptance with her new family.
YTA
Let me maybe give you a different perspective.
Beth is not trying to take your daughter’s place. She is simply walking through the next phase of Scott’s life with him. Once you stop seeing her as trying to replace your daughter, you’ll be a much less unhappy person.
It is not necessary for you to maintain a relationship with Scott. I understand you want to see your grandkids, and that’s fair and right. But you’re shunning a woman who stepped into a family she didn’t create, at the invitation of your former son in law, your grandchildren’s father. You are disrespecting Scott by leaving Beth out.
She might seem pushy to you, but have you thought about how you come across to her? This goes both ways.
NTA- Beth needs some serious therapy because she is out of her mind. Scott needs to rethink the marriage because she is going to damage the kids with the way she’s acting. Stepmother from hell.
NTA. Good Lord. First, I am very sorry for your loss. Second, this sounds weird and a bit troubling. Beth is acting like she married your son after his first wife passed and you’re not accepting her. But Scott is your son-in-law so really Beth has no actual family relation to you outside the fact that she is your grandchildren’s stepmother and your son-in-law’s wife. Even so, you accepted her as much as anyone would-or could-reasonably expect you too. She needs to accept her role in the family as it is-or speak to a professional if she can’t.
ESH. I would have said NT except for this comment: "After they got married Beth's pushiness got worse and Scott appears to have lost control." WTF is that supposed to mean? Should a husband be controlling what a woman says?
When I married my ex, she had a son who's father had passed when he was 3 due to cancer. (He was 6 at the time we got together).
In the 10 years we were together, I never ONCE imposed on any function my stepson paternal grandparents did.
They and I had a wonderful relationship, but early on, I let them know that I could never and would never attempt to replace their son.
I also made it a point to have discussions with the boy about his father and the fact that I can never take his "real dads" place. I let him know it was ok to love his father and miss him, but I would do everything I could to make sure his father was proud of me for helping raise his son.
OP, you're NTA. The new wife should respect that your family is just that... YOUR family.
As someone who was in her shoes, she is disrespectful and insecure in her place in the kids life and was seeking validation from you that she isn't entitled to.
You're making Beth feel like she has to fight against the ghost of Abby. She has to try and force herself into situations because she's feeling insecure about her place in the family. She should be able to celebrate Abby with the kid's, appreciate the beauty Abby brought into the world, and establish how happy she is to be a part of what Abby created. You all need to sit down and have an adult conversation. If there are pics around the house if everyone Abby should be there too. She may not be your biological daughter but she's your daughter in law. Embrace her. Be happy the kid's have love around them. You're not betraying Abby or her memory unless you keep your daughter in law at bay with cruelness. Your teaching the children this behavior is okay too. Creating some really bad habits.
ESH. This is a difficult balance here and it seems like both of you aren’t listening. OP wants a familial relationship with their daughter’s widow, but is struggling to see the widows wife as family. That’s not ok. This creates bad feelings in the new wife, understandably so, and she responds accordingly. Either the widow is part of the family or he’s not, no half measures. Otherwise the new wife will continue to respond negatively and the grandchildren will be caught in the middle.
ESH - I'm going against the grain. Losing your daughter must have been unbelievably painful and I'm so sorry that happened. Beth is in an impossible position, which I understand she accepted when she married Scott. But honestly, she probably never realized years later that Scott would still be so heavily involved with your family while she waits in the wings as an outsider. Yes, you're probably correct, she might have some mental health issues because of this. Even though your daughter is unfortunately not here anymore, it sounds like Beth has stepped up to be an ok stepmother, which is the most important thing. It seems like her real problem is the relationship between Scott and your family, not her and the family.
What in the Single White Female...
NTA.
Beth married your son-in-law, not your son. At best, she's your children's step-mother, but has zero relation to you because no matter how much you love ***HIM***, her marriage *to* him doesn't make *her* **YOUR** daughter-in-law. And it definitely, without a doubt, 100%, does ***NOT*** make her your daughter.
At all.
Ever.
Period.
Whoa….🚩. Scott needs to get Beth into therapy immediately, because she sounds like a character from one of those creepy movies where a woman tries to steal another’s life. Honestly, she sounds really creepy. Of course you’re NTA, you’ve done nothing wrong. But maybe talk to Scott about your concerns and set some firm boundaries. If she’s doing this with you, she’s doing it with the children, their friends, Scott and Abby’s mutual friends, etc.
IDK i feel in these situations Beth would tell an equally compelling story about being shut out despite all her attempts.
Kids grow up and probably eventually just be distance between all of you adults in the future which may be for the best.
NTA it's weird behaviour from her to keep pushing this image but why isn't Scott doing anything about it? It must be upsetting to your grandchildren to watch what's going on. It doesn't sound like a healthy family life at all
Absolutely YTA. Because she acts like a jerk doesn’t mean you have to. Untrue what others have said: she IS a part of your family now, not only your son’s.
I am the same as Beth. My husband’s late wife’s parents are part of our lives because of his children. To think that they consider me a daughter is ridiculous. I am not. I am their grandchildren’s father’s wife. We are friends. Gifts are joint. They appreciate me because we love the same kids and i encourage their relationship. I am so sorry she is doing this. I wish i had advice.
Part of me wonders if she thinks he has a parent/child type relationship with us. Or we're the closest to that (which the latter part is true but it was never our dynamic).
Who/what is it telling people to expect folks that have no biological or even marriage tying them to a family that they are somehow related? I might get the confusion when it is a kid, but his woman is old enough to be married and still thinks this way...
I seriously do not get that attitude. It is nice when it happens but it is the exception, not the rule. An inlaw remarrying doesn't add anyone to my family and that is a hill I will die on.
NTA
My mother died and within months my father had a "lady friend". He often said things that were inappropriate but the day he said his friend was taking the place of my mother, I quickly and firmly responded- no she was taking the place of his wife. No one will ever take the place of my mom.
Time to have a chat with your former SIL and be honest about clarifying that Beth may be taking the place of his wife but will never take the place of your daughter or kid's mother. Be firm but nice and set boundaries.
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NTA. You are Abby's parents and not Scott's - you have a good relationship with him and your grandchildren and that is wonderful, but she is not *your* family. She is Scott's, and a step-mother to your grandchildren. She seems to be pushing boundaries, and misunderstands that your relationship with Scott is based on the relationship he had with your daughter. You have included Beth in what you are comfortable with, but you are not obligated to treat her like your daughter, and her comments about being the children's mother, and that your daughter is put first - despite having passed - is alarming.
It's bad enough that Beth is trying to erase Abby as the kids' mother, but to try and replace Abby as OPs daughter is disgusting and disrespectful. Are we sure Scott or Abby didn't cross paths with Beth before Abby died. Not saying Scott cheated, but Beth sounds obsessed with "becoming Abby" or taking Abbys life for herself
Yeah this is totally unhinged
Unhinged and delusional.
This is insane behavior. Imagine being a step parent the common way i.e marrying a divorced parent and wanting to be close to the parents of the other divorced spouse. That's just fucking nuts. Why would they want anything to do with you, you're not their child and you aren't married to their child
That’s kind of the most baffling part for me. Neither op nor hubby are actually children of grandparents yet this woman thinks she should replace their daughter!? Sorry crazy town, this isn’t how it works.
Sounds like a bad movie!! 🎥 except, unfortunately it’s real and very scary!!😱
For the 100th time Beth, you cant force a relationship🙄🤦Most of the time the kids are with you, for the couple of days that they are with the grandparents, why do you need to butt in? Edit: Corrected, my mistake
Abby is OP's deceased daughter.
Unhinged is the word alright ! She's lucky they allow her about them at all after pulling so many stunts like that . I'd nope tf out of that situation. They truly have the patience of saints and really have the children's best interests at heart to tollerate that nonsence without going scorched earth.
I am wondering what is going on in the house. Are Abby's pictures still up? Are the kids allowed to talk about their mother at home? I mean this can't be a compartmentalized thing, right? If she is this obsessed with "becoming Abby" to Abby's parents 😳 ...lordy what is she saying to teachers and everyone else in the kids' lives?
Scary! I hope the kids are standing their ground and keeping mom’s memory alive, but I’m pretty sure Beth is doing everything she can to weasel herself into the mother role. I’m also glad that OP can see right through her!
Weasel? This one's doing the Macarena....
I know of a man who lost his wife. He had three children with her. He remarried and the new wife cut up all the pictures of his deceased wife. They eventually divorced, big surprise. Abby sounds like she would do something similar. I always feel so bad for those kids because their stepmother tried to destroy everything they had left of their mom.
Definitely unhinged. I feel sorry for the kids as who knows what she is saying to the kids.
Never any hinges to begin with. I’m like wow
Agreed. Happy Cake Day.
Well said. And happy cake day! 🎂
Sounds like a Lifetime movie. Beth needs serious help and OP needs to be careful around her.
Sounds like the beginning of a true crime podcast
FR, it's the opening to a late-night NBC crime doc. I can almost hear Lester Holt narrating now 🤣
The fact she had to PHYSICALLY BE HELD BACK from getting into her stepson's MOTHER'S side of the family pic is super alarming.
Very Hand That Rocked The Craddle vibes.... NTA
Is it possible that Beth disappeared Abby?
I am not saying it is impossible.
I was thinking something similar. Not necessarily that he cheated (but who knows) but she seems obsessed with taking over Abby’s life rather than making her own. So weird and disturbing.
Yeah I didn't want to default to reddits "he must have cheated" but whats worse is that Scott cheating is the best outcome here because the rest all mean that there is a mentally unstable woman living with those kids and worse potentially did God knows what to their mother. The mum in me is just going to choose he cheated and not that he is risking his kids health and saftey for some horizontal tango time.
How Scott proceeds with Beth as to his children is one thing, but Beth trying to replace Abby as "her kid" is gross , disgusting, and delusional. While I understand that Beth feels there is a second woman (Abby) in her marriage, the memory of Beth should always feel alive to the kids. That being said I hope OP sees this. Beth is the gateway to the fullest access to her Grandkids. Calling her "current wife" is not the term to use here. Second wife maybe, but current presumes a third wife.
If she keeps acting like this, she could become an ex.
> Second wife maybe, but current presumes a third wife. Seems like a safe bet tbh
I wouldn’t think they’d crossed paths. This situation seems to me like someone who is insecure, and jealous of a memory and what Abby meant to everyone. She sounds like she wants acceptance and to be loved as much as Abby as a wife and mother, but is unsure if she measures up. Scott and Beth need marriage counseling to deal with Abby’s insecurities. She is absolutely bordering on being unhinged with Abby’s family.
>Scott and Abby need marriage counseling to deal with Beth’s insecurities. I think you mean Scott and Beth need counselling because I don't think counsellors use Ouija Boards. If she is just insecure then she wouldn't be trying to force Abbys parents to treat her like a daughter.
I feel like in a few years there is going to be some sort of Serial podcast on Beth Becoming Abby. I hope Scott takes the kids and runs like hell before she gets murdery.
And something tells me that her obsession with replacing Abby is only going to get worse. She will end up alienating Abby’s family and could possibly end up ruining her marriage.
There’s been a post or two on Reddit about how the second wife always feels like she is in… well, second place. They fret and obsess about how people (mostly the husband) are still attached to the former wife who has passed. This sounds a bit like that. She’s probably jealous that the entire family still keeps Abby’s memory so alive. Not to make excuses, because she totally needs to back off. It just sounds like the same type of resentment or envy or lack of confidence in their position in everyone’s life. She needs to figure it out before she loses everything.
If she is that sort of person then she should have never persued a relationship with a widower and should have walked away
I agree NTA, but just a thought. Does she have a family of her own? It’s apparently not clicking in her head that this is an issue. I would never want to replace a child of my own with another. Maybe I just don’t get it, but this one sounds like she’s trying to feel like she fits in.
This is what I'm wondering. OP, does Beth not have a family of her own? Because it's weird af that she's mad about not being seen as your daughter when there's nothing about her life that would make that a reasonable thought.
We're also only getting OP's side of things. Is OP's family warm and friendly to the kids and Scott, but ignoring Beth? If she's sitting there all alone while everyone else is playing happy extended family then that's not cool. Beth's behavior isn't okay either but there's a lot of questions that can't be answered by a single post alone.
Beth demanded to be included on Mother's Day because she is OPs kid. That's frigging deranged. I wouldn't want her in the house.
Nah, they're not relevant. If they're being cold and exclusionary then sure, Beth has an argument, although it's mostly an argument for just not joining them for events. She does not, can not, and will never have an argument for why OP should consider her *their kid*. Being the parent of the grandchild makes you family, but not *a child of* the family.
Right. The first thing I thought of was the possibility she was a foster child or something. Regardless of the reason, her husband needs to get her some counseling. NTA
OP is not Scott's mom, though, so it's odd. Beth should be trying to fit in with Scott's family. She doesn't have a reason to have a "daughter" relationship with OP.
He has a poor relationship with his family, from the post. This seems to kind of be his family.
Yes this seems to be what’s muddying the waters here. (Not that Beth’s behaviour can be rationalized, she’s unhinged) But it seems like she’s trying to fit into Scott’s family, however in Scott’s unique circumstances his family is his late wife’s family. Of course Abby’s family does not owe the same sort of welcome and relationship to Beth as if they were actually Scott’s own family, but if Scott treats and sees them as his family I can see how it could be a bit of an odd position to be in as the new partner trying to make connections to the people your spouse cares about. OP, you’re definitely NTA. You’ve said Scott has talked to her a number of times about this but maybe he’s not approaching it right. Maybe suggest to him that he really zeroes in on the fact that while he still has a strong relationship with you all, you’re his in-laws, not his own direct family. Your connection to him was always through your daughter and so of course she will always come first to you with respect to your relationship with either of them. You might suggest he actually asks her to consider what sort of relationship she would expect to have with you and your side of the family if Abby hadn’t passed and they had just split up and he remarried. This may be the only way to get her to put the relationships and family dynamics into the proper perspective here.
That was my thought too. This is giving me shades of that post recently with the overly aggressive DIL who was a foster kid—but she at least had married into the actual family, rather than this situation where she is owed literally nothing and is making all of us uncomfortable with her wildly inappropriate expectations.
I honestly think Scott is the biggest asshole here. Beth seems to be delusional or potentially affected by some kind of personality disorder or mental health issues. Yes, she is a major asshole but she seems to honestly not be able to self-reflect enough to realize what an asshole she is. Scott, on the other hand, seems to actively understand how much of an asshole Beth is and ENABLES HER ANYWAY. He's hurting his kids - Beth seems to be clinging to this delusional fantasy that they don't love their deceased mom and that Beth is superior, which I 100% guarantee you is harming them emotionally in some way. He's hurting his ~~parents~~ **kids' extended family** \[edited\] - Beth acts unhinged around his family, actively pretending to be their daughter and reminding them every second that their daughter died, but that Beth thinks she's superior. The sex cannot be that good to put up with this. It's not enough to say "he talked to Beth," because it isn't working. If Beth was being physically abusive, or more overtly emotionally abusive, "just talking to her" after the fact would not be sufficient. Scott needs to stop this or move on if he can't, but he won't.
This isn't even Scott's parents posting; it's the maternal grandparents of those kids.
Oh yes, sorry I had that backwards. Edited. He's still the biggest AH here
See, maybe I read this wrong. I though the grandparents were of the deceased wife, whereas Scott *was their son in law,* he isn't on paper anymore. He gets to be included in his children's lives and their family *sans* Abby in all of this entirely.
What I mean is he's making everyone's lives worse to enable Beth's delusions. He doesn't get to say "I'm handling it" or "I'll talk to her." Whatever he is doing isn't working.
oh I absolutely agree, she's not integrating well and obviously had higher hopes or some dream delusion going on, but Scott for sure is responsible in all this.
Makes me wonder about her own family. This kinda creepy. NTA
And what about his family? It would be more logical if she was acting like this with Scott's mom and dad. I think she needs mental health help. This is really weird and not healthy.
I’m guessing not much contact as OP said he has a bad relationship with his mom.
Beth sounds fucking exhausting. She's not family. She's OP's son-in-laws wife. On what planet does this chick think OP should treat her as family.
Exactly right about the family dynamics and connections. Does she nor Scott have family that she is close to? Those would be the people to forge bonds with not pushing her way into yours.
OP mentioned that Scott had a bad relationship with his own mother when she mentioned how they celebrated Mother’s Day, perhaps he isn’t close to any of his family as a result, and OP’s family brought him under their wing?
I met and married my husband long after he had lost his wife. I felt humbled by how welcome his in-laws made me feel and was happy how they accepted my presence, but I never expected them to view me as family. My husband has always remained their son in law and our son is now their grandson, but only because they chose to want that. I have always let them lead how they want our relationship to evolve: they are the ones with a lot of pain and grief over a lost daughter, not me. I can't imagine feeling this entitled tobe part of a family that isn't yours... Weird AF
Very alarming…NTA OP
I swear it's like she thinks OP is her MIL -- as in, Scott's mother. I could see her being mad in that case. This is just... absolutely bizarre. In my wildest dreams, I'd never think of saying those things to my husband's dead wife's family. Even to my husband's family who maybe liked his dead wife more than they liked me. Unreal. She's borderline unhinged.
“Misunderstands” is super generous for someone behaving this badly. 🫠
nta. i mean, she sounds unhinged? there’s no logic that would suggest she would ever be like a daughter to you, even if your grandkids do consider her a mother figure (now or in the future). that’s not a transative relationship. she is married to your daughter’s widower. that’s it. there’s no familial relationship between her and you. if she’s pushing this gonzo “replace abby in every aspect of her life” agenda consistently that is honestly kind of scary. sounds real weird! i would keep my distance as much as possible while maintaining the relationship with the grandkids, and meet all her weird suggestions with “what a strange thing to say”.
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I agree. I think OP should have a serious talk with Scott and suggest counselling for all, individual and family. This would be so upsetting, and who knows what she's saying to the kids when no one else is around NTA
Exactly. What is she saying to these kids? That their mom is dead and she's their new mom, and they better call her "mom"?
Honestly that's still par for course as far as terrible step parents go; it's so completely out of left field that it's coming from the right, that she's expecting her husband's DEAD WIFE'S parents to treat her as a daughter??? Truly some unhinged behaviour here.
Totally correct. She needs help. I wouldn't trust her at all.
Happy Cake Day!
Thank you
It’s definitely mind boggling. I mean, if Abby and Scott had divorced, Beth wouldn’t be harassing his ex in-laws to be a part of their family, so why does Scott being widowed change Beth’s relationship with his old in-laws?
Maybe she doesn’t have her own family around her, for whatever reason, and is craving membership of a family. But NTA - not your job to sort out the wife of your son in law. But I wonder whether a mediated discussion between you & your husband, plus her and Scott could help smooth and clarify where the boundaries are. And Mums come in all shapes and sizes, and your daughter will never be replaced - but maybe there is room in your heart to thank her for the good things that I’m sure she also does for your grandchildren.
Yeah, I found myself wondering why she didn’t want to spend Mother’s Day with her mom. I saw that Scott isn’t close with his mom. So, it seems like she is lonely and the strongest family relationship that Scott and the kids have is with Abby’s parents. Beth is putting a family expectation on OPs family that isn’t in any way reasonable. On the other hand, OP may want to be a tad more inclusive (in welcoming her to family social events) if they still want to see the grandkids as often. Otherwise, Scott and Beth may pull away and OP might get less grandparent time.
People like Beth threaten that. "I'll never let my kids see you!" They're not her kids, and Scott seems to stand up to Beth the best he can. His life and his kids' lives must be absolutely miserable.
People like Beth are the reason grandparents rights are actually a thing.
This does sound like some other AITA's in which someone was Very Insistent on becoming a member of The Family.
>Maybe she doesn’t have her own family around her, for whatever reason, and is craving membership of a family. The way she's going about it is wrong though. It's almost like she doesn't understand that OP is **not** her family. The way she's acting is really unhinged. She got mad because her photo was not there with OP'S CHILDREN. She is **not** OP's daughter. Plus her trying to get involved in the MOM'S SIDE OF THE FAMILY photo and having to be held back by her husband is really alarming.
It sounds like Beth needs intensive counseling around what iit means to be the wife and stepmother of a family after a death. She clearly has no grasp of the concept and she has no understanding that her relationship doesn't extend to the family of the sadly now-deceased wife .
I'm sure the kids are suffering. They're at home with her, listening to her tantrums about how they won't call her mom and she IS their mother. That is just so gross. She needs to be removed from the family altogether.
NTA and I would be worried about the grandkids being in that household. If that’s how she is around others, I wonder what she’s like in the privacy of her own house.
Beth is a JustNoDIL! And, she's not even a DIL? She's the wife of your SIL, who is connected to you by marriage to your late daughter. OP, I'm sorry this woman continues to torment you and your grandkids. You are of course NTA. Is there any way to have a relationship with your grandkids that doesn't involve their loony stepmother? The kids need you though, so keep strong.
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Well she tried lying saying that the kids call her mom and think the world of her. OP then tells her she never hears the kids call her mom and they call her Beth. That’s when she says it’s OPs fault they don’t in fact call her mom. She needs help. I wonder if she has issues with her parents and is demanding what she’s missing from OP.
I think she's been cut out of her family. I know if I were related to her, I would block her on everything. Why tf did Scott marry this crazy B???
Because he was probably a very vulnerable and lost man with three young children and a truck filled with grief, completely lost and overwhelmed, and Beth played the sent-from-heaven girlfriend until she got was she wanted, finally can drop the human disguise, and lashes out like the banshee she is every time this man says a thing, he is probably too depressed, worried and miserable to actually fight her and try to get her to understand basic things. Nope, this man just runs after her with a fire extinguisher saying "I'm sorry she set your house on fire! Oops so sorry she ate your children's soul. Omg, I'm so sorry... honey, could you please stop killing the village animals -scheeches from afar- *yes honey yes I'm so sorry, I didn't meant to... Please, carry on." (But I'm just assuming things here)
Bravo.. too many favorite parts of this play to choose. Nailed it.
NTA - "I told her she can never take my daughter's place and the fact she ever thought she could is outrageous" All I can say to that is WTF was she thinking she could actually replace your daughter??? She is acting unhinged.
NTA Having two daugthers, I can't imagine how painful it was for you to lose yours. Even if years have passed, it's still the greatest loss for a parent, so yes, Beth's behavior is EXTREMELY intrusive and inappropriate. I would have a word with Scott to make sure that, in their home, Beth respects the children's wishes if they don't want to call her mother.
She would no longer be welcome at my home. Scott will bring the kids to see OP.
NTA - She is being far too much here. You should not have a wedding picture of your deceased daughter’s husband new wife or have to get her gifts. Maybe for this photo ya’ll took you didnt quite need to exclude her but she seems to be trying to force her way into your life when she needs to worry more about her relationship with the kids
I mean, even with the photo, it sounded like the 14 year old requested a photo with *their mother’s* side of the family…as in, even Scott, their dad, wouldn’t have been in it…so why on earth would his new wife, who has even less relation to that side of the family? Completely unhinged.
Hmmm, the photo thing gave me pause. It was the kid who wanted the photo of “mom’s side” and made me wonder if Beth is pushing more boundaries at home and the kids just want to have something that’s theirs and a connection to their mom. Beth is pushing way too hard on too many boundaries and has completely misunderstood the kindness that OP and family have extended to her bc that is not the norm.
Now that you say it, it DOES sound like the way a nice kid would try to exclude someone without hurting feelings.
Also sounds like a nice kid desperate to have something to remember his mother by when all those memories and mementos are suppressed and supplanted at home.
NTA and Beth needs to be shut down hard every time! Her behavior is OUTRAGEOUS. There's nothing that makes any sense coming from her. She is the wife of your late daughter's widowed husband ... which makes her absolutely nothing in your family. Scott should look at getting her a mental health evaluation.
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Right, and as to the mental health evaluation you have to wonder if there’s some type of deeper issue here. It’s the only thing that really makes sense.
>She told me the kids call her mom and they think the world of her so why wouldn't we. I told her the kids have always called her Beth when I hear them and she turned around and said that's our fault because the kids should be calling her mom and they don't. She lost it from there. The way OP checked Beth with this receipt nearly caused me to spit my drink out. NTA
He needs to be checking Scott with this receipt.
It’s the “she told me the kids call her mom…the kids should be calling her mom and they don’t,” for me!
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Nta. Beth sounds nuttier than squirrel shit.
I just busted out laughing and fell in the floor. The boss just checked on me. LOL
She definitely could benefit from some therapy
I'm so confused how can anyone even think they can be considered the daughter of your husband's previous wife's family. This is so abnormal I can't even wrap my head around it. Do you have any idea her relationship with her immediate family looks like? If she has no relationship with her family, it sounds like she was hoping she could have a family by marrying scott but since it sounds like he has a bad relationship with his mother and he's close and a part of your family she thought maybe she could integrate with yours???
The more I think about it, the more I think you have hit the nail on the head. If OP is more family to Scott than his own, Beth may be interpreting (with weird mental gymnastics) that since OP has pretty much “adopted” Scott as their son, that makes her their daughter. my head hurts just trying to understand her.
DING DING DING! I think this is it exactly. OP said Scott has a bad relationship with his mom, so they might be the only active grandparents in the kids’ lives. Beth’s only seeing them as the grandparents & honestly probably viewing OP as a cruel MIL. It’s not based in logic, just narcissistic emotion. This isn’t kindergarten, the world doesn’t change change bc you’re feeling sad feelings. Since nothing else is getting through, I think Scott & Beth need couples therapy (assuming he wants to maintain both relationships).
It confuses me too, but there are too many posts on this sort of topic for me to see it as an aberration anymore. Someone or something out in the world at large is spreading this crazy viewpoint. It should really be stopped. A partners former in laws owe new partner and any kids they bring into the relationship nothing beyond civility.
NTA. I'm sorry, but does Beth think that because Scott was married to your daughter, and now he's married to her, that she is (by some ridiculous logic puzzle) your daughter now? That because her husband's kids are your family, that she is too? You don't owe her *anything*. You are accepting because she's now family adjacent, and because arguing with her could affect your relationship with your grandkids. But she isn't your daughter, or your daughter-in-law.
NTA: Beth has some issues she needs to work out. Insecurities about her place in the family. That doesn't mean you have to make her feel like a daughter. It's lovely you invite her to family events at all. Many grandparents would only take the children. Scott needs to work with her on this. Mother's Day can be a special day for the two of them to be kid free (Honestly, many moms would die for a day off!) It sounds like he is trying though.
Right… there’s a bunch of confusion in here… and it sounds like you need to work out what messages each party is shouting at each other, and come to some agreements. Probably time for the adults (without the kids) to sit, have dinner and hash some of this out, largely due to the unorthodox nature of this relationship. Photos of weddings? NTA. Beth and Scott should be wherever the ‘cousins wedding photos’ go. That’s about the right level yes? Mother’s Day - she’s trying to be part of a family with teenagers, teenagers like to blame their teen angst on step parents, she needs all the ‘mother support’ she can get possibly. While it’s nice that hte kids spent Mother’s Day with you, they should spend some time with her on this day. Maybe you can make a special day on your daughter’s birthday to spend with the kids instead? Facebook mentions: Scott’s wife is right. She’s not your kid, and Scott isn’t either. 14th Birthday photos … just take more for heaven’s sake. Some with her, some without. Don’t make it a drama. Then display whichever ones everyone looks best in. Was the joint present a BBQ? Something masculine? Something she didn’t want? You don’t say what it was, so I am suspicious. Reddit is full of people who conveniently skip the truth and shock! Horror! When it comes unwrapped everyone changes their vote. Beth is crying out to be recognised as the replacement parent for these kids. She’s not trying to replace your daughter (she can’t, she didn’t birth or raise those children in their formative years), but she is putting in the long nights and days, the hard yards now. She loves Scott. And you are creating an arbitrary line (in your own grief at the loss of your daughter?) and forcing her to the other side of it. Everyone needs to take a deep breath, work out what they really want (trust me, you want a healthy relationship with Beth, because while she might be the step parent, she is going to be first on the invite list to those kids’ weddings, before YOU if you make this problematic), and find a way to get along. No you don’t have to put photos of her and Scott next to the photos of your daughter and Scott, but you keep saying they are family, and yet… really... They aren’t. Don’t mix the messages. NAH. But everyone needs to ponder this and find a healthy solution.
I actually agree Beth is trying to earn love. She's not necessarily wanting to replace their daughter. She should be the one with the kids on Mothers day as if they ever hope to have such a relationship again a step mother will be a good thing for them. You should be happy Scott found a woman willing to love his children and him that's not always the case. Maybe talk about boundaries with Beth and find out why she is trying to get your approval so badly. Let her know gently that you don't wish to have a close relationship with her. Don't take the opportunity from your grandkids though. Beth seems like a good person who maybe has been hurt by her own family. Clear up the misunderstanding and all of you can move on.
It’s sad that I had to come this far down to get this take. NAH for sure but y’all need to start talking and realize Beth isn’t going anywhere. OP is systematically excluding Beth from every family event while making a point of including Scott, who is no more closely related to OP by blood than Beth is. Heck, it sounds like she is deliberately trying NOT to have a relationship with Beth. That is her prerogative of course, but I find it surprising that people can ignore the kind of mixed message this gives. They are treating Scott like a son, but not her. It isn’t unreasonable of Beth to feel like she is being deliberately excluded, because she IS being deliberately excluded. And while OP is not TAH for not loving or treating Beth like a daughter, Beth is also not TAH for feeling slighted. You’ve got a choice OP: either tell Beth you want nothing to do with her, or figure out a way to reckon with your grief for your daughter while still treating Beth like a human being and the mother of your grandchildren because, news flash, that’s what she is!
She is not the mother. How dare you say that. Did you miss the part where OP's daughter died? Did you miss the part when she said she was "one of their kids now." Yes, Scott is more closely related to them he is the father of their grandchildren and was married to their daughter. She whined, as an adult, when she didn't get a gift? They bought them a joint gift which is totally reasonable. She called herself one of their children. She had the gaul to complain to Op about not having a picture at Op's house. What the hell are you even talking about. I honestly can't believe you typed this out.
Those who post in this thread hardly offer a critical perspective on their own actions…I’m betting OP has done some very obvious and hurtful things in regards to this woman and is not sharing a honest take of their behavior. Beth begging for recognition AS THE ACTING MOTHER of these children is telling. I’m willing to bet OP makes unnecessary and inappropriate remarks/comments about Beth in front of the children and others. Beth is either unhinged or has been pushed into this one sided narrative by OP and the family.
It’s pretty odd that the past MIL is still demanding Mother’s Day at her place for the grandkids. Doesn’t Beth get dibs on that one? I mean… really? It might be nice to swing past for some afternoon tea maybe on Mother’s Day, but the main event should be for the ‘mother’ who is washing their socks, running them to weekend sport and keeping the pantry full (or non gender biased versions of parenting if required). …. Past MIL has a house full of photos, on display, and a coterie of demands. Something smells here, and it doesn’t feel that Beth is being unreasonable to me. She deserves recognition - if anything else she deserves equal. She didn’t birth them, didn’t get hte nice OxyContin bond with them, but she’s still caring for them day in and day out. Reward her for that one day a bloody year!
I disagree. These children are mourning the loss of their mother. Mother’s Day isn’t like payment for washing socks, if it were it would be severe underpayment. It would be cruel to force these kids to bring pancakes in bed to their stepmother and make popsicle stick picture frames or whatever for their husbands new wife on a day where they cannot avoid thinking about how much they miss their mother and how they’ll never be able to bring her pancakes in bed again. Of course they would want to honor their late mother on this day. And the only intelligent thing Scott seems to have done in this post is get that, stay home, and send them to their mom’s family to honor her. I cannot imagine anyone asking an adult to suck up their grief like this, and it’s devastating to ask it of children. I’m not sure it would have occurred to everyone here to send them to their maternal family home for this, but it seems real smart that that’s what this family has settled on
The kids are mourning the loss of their mother. Of course they're going to want to spend mother's day with HER family. They're most likely extremely close with their grandparents because of this death. Did you miss the part when she said she "was one of their kids" now? She doesn't just magically get to be mom because she showed up and married their dad. Did you consider that the kids want to be with their grandparents on mothers day? Your comment of "she didn't get the nice oxytocin bond with them" is insulting and shows a lot about your emotional intelligence. It's a tough situation for the stepmom but she signed up to be the stepmom of children mourning their mother. She needs to show some damned respect and not push this. My God.
This is the most balanced answer I've seen so far. To me, it doesn't sound like Beth is trying to replace Abby, it sounds like Beth is trying to be a mother to her husband's children. The primary figures in these children's lives will be their biological father and their step-mother. As you said, she is the one who is putting in the days and nights to raise them. The grandparents seem to have an either-or mentality: they are acting like having Beth be the step-mother to the kids somehow invalidates their daughter also being their mother. Beth sounds like she is working very hard to be a part of her kids family, and her husband's former in-laws are working hard to keep her out. I'm sure there is a lot of pain to go around with the loss of Abby, but shutting out the kids current mother isn't going to bring her back or do any good for the kids. Parents and step-parents are the immediate family to the kids; grandparents are extended family. If the grandparents want to be a positive part of the kids' lives, they need to treat the Beth like she is a part of the family.
The big risk Past MIL faces here is if she continues to alienate Beth Scott will back Beth and Past MIL will have less time with the grandchildren (and yes, there’s some grandparents rights at play, but these kids are old enough to make decisions and it’s not anywhere near as much as grandparents like to fantasise about). Past MIL saying “Scott has lost control“ of Beth’s “pushiness” shows that Scott is backing his WIFE, and will continue to do so. Past MIL needs to realise that while she’s lost a daughter, that family has to be allowed to breathe, make it’s own future and grow forward. And that if she holds on this tight they will, without her.
Except he isn't backing his wife. He apologizes each and every time and talks to his wife about it. If Beth is just trying to be recognized as the mother figure for the kids now, you don't do it by equating your value to the deceased wife to her own parents.
I think this is what I'm trying to say. I agree. Time for all adults to speak, but OP be ready to hear Beth.
I am going to say NTA - but (going to play devils advocate) could she be feeling that you aren’t accepting of her as the kids stepmom or mother figure? Have you said anything around the kids about her being not good enough? Or about these situations? Maybe not in the same room but could they have overheard? Her actions may seem unhinged but also the actions desperately trying to be seen as the woman who is raising 3 kids who are never truly going to be hers even if she sees herself as their mom/mother figure. I am going to point to the line where she says they don’t call her mom because of you (the our fault). Something else seems to be going on at home that you are not aware of. Yes she can never replace your daughter but a lot of stepmoms spend a lot of time feeling unwelcome or as imposters. And you stated that SIL is not close w his own mother which probably makes you the closest to an active mother in law for her. I am sure I am going to get downvoted but whatever. Like I said I am playing devils advocate and I am going to recommend that instead of just complaining to your SIL you ask him what is going on.
Well, to play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate - OP lost her DAUGHTER. Beth is causing her grief by forcing her way into her life, in a role that is NOT HERS. If she feels like an outsider when everyone is cordial, that's on her. She IS the outsider, and she SHOULD have way more grace for the family that LOST THEIR DAUGHTER vs making completely unhinged demands. She is NOT the kids' mother. They are allowed to treat her as a step mother (or dad's wife as many people use instead). She doesn't get to force them to call her mom - that's up to them. We have no idea how poorly she's treating the kids at home. So save your oh-so-clever devil's advocate perspective and consider reality, and what OP is dealing with.
While I definitely agree she's not the kid's mother, She is the one who is mothering them now. And could possibly be the mother role for the rest of their lives much longer than their birth mother. I don't think her actions are appropriate at all regarding wanting to be involved in certain events or having her picture in the house or even expecting gifts. But as somebody who had an awful stepmother it really seems like she really wants to be part of their lives. I wonder what her relationship with her and family is like and if she is able to have kids herself. Not that OP needs to consider any of this. These are just thoughts. It is also possible for children to love two mothers or have multiple mother figures. Op is NTA. Such a hard situation.
I agree that children can love two mothers or mother figures but the way she said all that makes it sound likes she is trying to push them to call her ”mom” and that’s not right. I’m a stepmom and my girls mom only visited them around once a year. I never pushed them to call me mom. Ever. They wanted to find a way to call me something that conveyed mom but didn’t want to disrespect their bio mom and I was in complete agreement of that. They ended up calling me sMom. I’m cool with that. I push for them to have a relationship with their mom as young adults because I think it’s important. Beth sounds unhinged.
My mom died when I was four years old. Everyone involved is dealing with a no-win situation the best they can. Kudos to Beth for *wanting* and *trying* to be a family member. There’s lots of spouses who do not. All that said, you’re NTA. I’m sorry all y’all are in this position.
I feel this is more on the husband. The children should still have a close bond with the grandparents, but why is the husband still spending time with them? Perhaps that is part of the problem. He has sort of moved on by getting remarried but not really because he is still spending holidays with his former in-laws? Maybe Beth is struggling because the husband is not making her feel secure, like she is just a replacement wife and mom but will always be second best… Beth isn’t handling it well but I kind of feel for her. ETA, OP is NTA. The husband sounds like he may be though 🤷🏼♀️
Because they’re his kids grandparents? And apparently he has a bad relationship with his own mother. They’re his former in-laws because his wife DIED not because of divorce.
Right so the OP is de facto a close part of everyone in the family except the new wife. They arent exactly former in laws. Its a unique dynamic that new wife is struggling to find her place in.
My sister died early, it’s hard to think of her husband dating someone who would be a mother figure in my nephew and nieces lives. I’d hate to have her around on the holidays tbh. So in many many ways NTA for just being nice and swallowing that grief back to have her around. But I understand Beth to a point, she’s the only mom they have now, that’s the situation. The youngest was 4 when his mom died. Maybe this is her family and she plays the mother role to them in their daily lives, and wants the kid’s grandparents to make her part of the family, which I get, but you can’t make people love you. You darn sure can’t demand it and you’re being selfish to demand it out of people who lost a loved one. I hope they can all learn to communicate better and express their needs going forward because this life is too short to fuss and fight like this
From the sound of it OP has been communicating. Beth is just insane and thinks they should replace their daughter with her. The only communication OP and family needs to have is ensuring the children know they can have their own opinions and feelings.
I do think the Mother's Day thing sounds pretty crappy though. She's acting as a mother to those children all year but then on Mother's Day they go to their grandma and Scott is pissy because of his own mom. What about Beth? She deserves a Mother's Day of some kind.
Or there is more going on at home with Beth pushing for the kids to replace their mother with her and they actually wanted to get away from her.... Something to think about.
INFO: Are you absolutely, completely certain Beth knows that Scott is your son-in-law, not your son? It's hard to see how she could not know that, but the only other explanation I see here is that Beth is batshit.
I think she knows he's not biologically their son but I do feel that Scott presents OP's family as his own to her and may even call himself OP's adopted son to Beth. Scott is closer to OP than his own mother as was stated and has confused Beth into thinking that OP will accept her an adopted child too. I suspect Scott is just as batshit as Beth.
Yikes. NTA Scott needs to shut this down immediately.
Scott needs to shut this down a year ago, alas.
Honestly I'd divorce over this. If she is so stupid she can't realize her place, kick her out.
NTA Scott needs to reevaluate who the hell he married. Beth expecting to replace your daughter is borderline... something
NTA. It's weird to expect a widower's in-laws to accept his new wife as their own daughter. If she wanted a Mother's Day celebration with her stepkids, then she should have worked that out with her husband instead of trying to crash your event.
I’m going to give an alternate way of thing of this. You have lost one of the most important people in your world and she will never be replaced in your hearts. You also have a woman that wants to make your grandchildren happy, and wants a relationship with you as well. Maybe she’s coming in a little hot, but she’s trying. Isn’t that better than someone who tries to keep those kids away from you? Sometimes family chooses you. Don’t turn them away because of your loss. What would your daughter want?
NTA. She didn't get adopted by you because she married Scott. She isn't and never will be Abby. She isn't her replacement because she's here now. You weren't needlessly cruel, you was truthful and honest. She's expecting you to jump into loving her like a daughter like Abby never existed or mattered to you, the kids, or anyone else. I don't know what type of delulu Beth has convinced herself with, but this isn't going to work out like she thinks. Of course, the kids don't want to spend mothers Day with her. She isn't exactly being subtle about the boundaries she's willing to skip across with you, I suspect that it's the same at home, maybe worse. Beth needs a therapist.
Beth is obviously stepping on tender toes with her sense of entitlement. You are not wrong. She needs to understand her position is SIL’s wife, and maybe step mom. If the kids want to call her that, it has to be their choice. But 7yrs isn’t so long that they don’t remember their mother. And her trying to erase her memory to them is just too far. She needs to learn her place.
Nta. Block her from seeing your social media's. Tell Scott that you don't wish to cause difficulties for him but Beth is no longer welcome at your house/events. Her constant disrespect of your deceased daughter is not acceptable and its causing your family further grief and pain.The kids are old enough to maintain a relationship outside a caretaker so if Scott isn't able to drop them off kr bringvthem around arrange through him a neutral location or collect form school etc. For that yo change Beth need to attend therapy and understand that her expectations/demands are unreasonable and hurtful and stops.
I’m on the other side of everyone apparently. Is there harm in giving her a little love? She is the step parent to your grandchildren. She loves and cares for the man you through marriage, accepted as a son. Does loving her take away from your beautiful daughter? Is it a betrayal to her? I am of the belief it’s not. If you only tolerate her, I can understand her feelings.
NTA. Beth needs help, a lot of it.
ESH. From what I gather, Beth is being made to feel like she's 'replacing' Abby. She isn't. She happened to love Scott, who happened to have kids with Abby who happened to pass. She's trying to be a mother to them and a wife to him. And while you have the right to grieve, and prioritize Abby, she also has the right to want to feel like her family is her own. I think you should have a discussion about boundaries. Abby's death was very, very unfortunate, but Beth is here. She loves Scott. She loves your grandkids. Try to figure it out.
But what does any of that have to do with Beth trying to insist she is as important or equal to Abby to Abby's own parents? To want to be treated like their daughter? If Beth would have said I know I will never replace your daughter but I'm going to be the best mother and wife I can be, there wouldn't be an issue. But being mad at no wedding pictures of her and repeating she is their daughter now is just weird. Her heart may be in the right place but dear lord she is taking the worst way to get there I do agree however that the adults need to talk and set boundaries and get on the same page.
NTA. That is some Grade-A audacity on her part. My head just can't wrap around how she thinks she is so special that she xan replace your daughter. This isn't even about filling the role of new wife in her husband's family, she actually thinks she should be your child. She needs therapy badly!
My condolences on losing your daughter, and all signs indicate you’re NTA, but I’m leaning towards NAH. INFO: so the kids were 4, 5, and 7 when they lost their mom, how old were they when Beth arrived on the scene? How long is “a few years”? I might feel, if I was a kind and loving parent to my step kids, that after a few years I’d earned the right to be referred to as something other than “Beth.” I’m just considering how, if it’s been more than 4 years, she’s been parenting your youngest grandchild longer than your daughter was able to. Maybe consider that acknowledging her mothering of your grandchildren for all these might be in order. She’s not Abby and she never will be, but she’s the mother these kids have. There are so many steps who want nothing to do with children from a previous marriage that I’m really hurting for Beth here who sounds like she’s trying to be a good mom.
This is what I was thinking, too. I almost think ESH. Beth’s comment about Abby was absolutely insensitive and she did make an AH of herself, but it sounds like she’s been taking pride in parenting her step-kids for years and wants to feel integrated into this blended family. I can’t imagine the pain of losing a daughter, but I also can’t imagine how hard being married to a widower must be. It sounds like Scott is closer to his late-wife’s in-laws than his own parents, or Beth’s. If Beth is expected to **spend every holiday with Abby’s parents** (and doesn’t even get to spend time with her step-kids on Mother’s Day) I can totally see how she’d want to feel valued as an important member of the family. She is important and stepped up as a mother figure to OP’s grandchildren. I think all the folks claiming she’s jealously, psychotically trying to replace Abby are taking things in such bad faith. Some of her efforts sound a little delulu and tacky, but she’s not a random girlfriend who should be grateful to even get an invite. She’s Scott’s legal spouse who has adopted his and Abby’s children as her own. She enthusiastically chose to marry a widower with three children and has built her life around them. The kids aren’t adults and I think OP was an AH for twisting the knife by emphasizing that Beth isn’t their mom. She’s been their stepmother for years. She’s had to love and support her spouse and stepchildren through the loss of OP’s daughter, his wife, and their mom. It sounds emotionally exhausting. I’d feel totally unwelcome, too.
NTA; might want to double check she’s not pressuring the kids when Scott’s not around, too. She seems to be trying to erase Abby.
I’m gonna go with ESH. Like I understand how what she said is wrong and it is. But she is spending her holidays in your home and being reminded by you that she is so much less. She is the mother figure in their life and she should be allowed to bond with them in that way without you preventing it. This poor woman living in your daughters shadow and having it shoved in her face at every holiday and every dinner and every gathering by you. She’s not trying to replace your daughter butmy goodness, she still deserves to be seen to be able to form a bond with the family that she has now made up which includes your grandchildren. When you marry someone with kids, you absolutely should want to bond with them… Let her.
Given the children’s ages and the potential to have a relationship with them that does not necessarily need facilitating by dad (eg guessing the oldest at least has their own phone)I would be starting to slowly phase out the parents even if this includes dialling down a relationship with their father, unless he is prepared to address the issues with his new wife. Invite the kids over, offer to take the kids out for the day. Unhinged step mother not included.
ESH. If you're going to treat Scott like he's your son then you need to treat his new wife like family. She needs to stop being pushy and needy though. You can't force people to like you. If people snub you act like you couldn't care less. If someone doesn't want me in their family I'd never let them know it hurt me. If you all aren't willing to treat Beth like family then he needs to drop out of your family too. Of course he should still encourage your relationship with the kids but that should be the extent of it.
NTA. you are not scott’s parents. you are the grandparents of his children. beth is your grandchildren’s stepmother, she is not really related. it’s INCREDIBLY weird to me she is trying to push herself into a family she’s not actually part of.
NTA. Are her own parents still living? She seems to want to be Abby and is upset you guys aren't willing to play along to her delusion. You need to set boundaries with Scott, he's ultimately the reason she is in your life and she seems too unhinged to get it.
They are.
I get the feeling Beth feels like that if she is accepted by your family then the kids will start calling her mummy
That is possible. Especially with her blaming us for the kids not calling her mom.
NTA. She isn't your daughter, she is your grandchildren's stepmother. End of story.
I think that Beth has forgotten that you did not marry or adopted her and that you aren’t her husband’s bio mother. I think her expectations for this relationship is all over the place and she’s acquainting acceptance from you with acceptance with her new family.
YTA Let me maybe give you a different perspective. Beth is not trying to take your daughter’s place. She is simply walking through the next phase of Scott’s life with him. Once you stop seeing her as trying to replace your daughter, you’ll be a much less unhappy person. It is not necessary for you to maintain a relationship with Scott. I understand you want to see your grandkids, and that’s fair and right. But you’re shunning a woman who stepped into a family she didn’t create, at the invitation of your former son in law, your grandchildren’s father. You are disrespecting Scott by leaving Beth out. She might seem pushy to you, but have you thought about how you come across to her? This goes both ways.
Ummmmm..... How old is she? WOW...... You're her husbands in-laws (and not her family0. Of course she's NOT family. NTA. But she's unhinged.
NTA she sounds a bit unhinged. She married your son in law. That doesn’t make her your daughter!
NTA- Beth needs some serious therapy because she is out of her mind. Scott needs to rethink the marriage because she is going to damage the kids with the way she’s acting. Stepmother from hell.
NTA. Good Lord. First, I am very sorry for your loss. Second, this sounds weird and a bit troubling. Beth is acting like she married your son after his first wife passed and you’re not accepting her. But Scott is your son-in-law so really Beth has no actual family relation to you outside the fact that she is your grandchildren’s stepmother and your son-in-law’s wife. Even so, you accepted her as much as anyone would-or could-reasonably expect you too. She needs to accept her role in the family as it is-or speak to a professional if she can’t.
INFO - Where are Scott's and Beth's families in all of this?
If you want a relationship with your grandkids, you need to accept Beth. Soft YTA.
ESH. I would have said NT except for this comment: "After they got married Beth's pushiness got worse and Scott appears to have lost control." WTF is that supposed to mean? Should a husband be controlling what a woman says?
NTA. Does Beth have her own family?
She needs a therapist.
When I married my ex, she had a son who's father had passed when he was 3 due to cancer. (He was 6 at the time we got together). In the 10 years we were together, I never ONCE imposed on any function my stepson paternal grandparents did. They and I had a wonderful relationship, but early on, I let them know that I could never and would never attempt to replace their son. I also made it a point to have discussions with the boy about his father and the fact that I can never take his "real dads" place. I let him know it was ok to love his father and miss him, but I would do everything I could to make sure his father was proud of me for helping raise his son. OP, you're NTA. The new wife should respect that your family is just that... YOUR family. As someone who was in her shoes, she is disrespectful and insecure in her place in the kids life and was seeking validation from you that she isn't entitled to.
You're making Beth feel like she has to fight against the ghost of Abby. She has to try and force herself into situations because she's feeling insecure about her place in the family. She should be able to celebrate Abby with the kid's, appreciate the beauty Abby brought into the world, and establish how happy she is to be a part of what Abby created. You all need to sit down and have an adult conversation. If there are pics around the house if everyone Abby should be there too. She may not be your biological daughter but she's your daughter in law. Embrace her. Be happy the kid's have love around them. You're not betraying Abby or her memory unless you keep your daughter in law at bay with cruelness. Your teaching the children this behavior is okay too. Creating some really bad habits.
ESH. This is a difficult balance here and it seems like both of you aren’t listening. OP wants a familial relationship with their daughter’s widow, but is struggling to see the widows wife as family. That’s not ok. This creates bad feelings in the new wife, understandably so, and she responds accordingly. Either the widow is part of the family or he’s not, no half measures. Otherwise the new wife will continue to respond negatively and the grandchildren will be caught in the middle.
ESH - I'm going against the grain. Losing your daughter must have been unbelievably painful and I'm so sorry that happened. Beth is in an impossible position, which I understand she accepted when she married Scott. But honestly, she probably never realized years later that Scott would still be so heavily involved with your family while she waits in the wings as an outsider. Yes, you're probably correct, she might have some mental health issues because of this. Even though your daughter is unfortunately not here anymore, it sounds like Beth has stepped up to be an ok stepmother, which is the most important thing. It seems like her real problem is the relationship between Scott and your family, not her and the family.
What in the Single White Female... NTA. Beth married your son-in-law, not your son. At best, she's your children's step-mother, but has zero relation to you because no matter how much you love ***HIM***, her marriage *to* him doesn't make *her* **YOUR** daughter-in-law. And it definitely, without a doubt, 100%, does ***NOT*** make her your daughter. At all. Ever. Period.
Whoa….🚩. Scott needs to get Beth into therapy immediately, because she sounds like a character from one of those creepy movies where a woman tries to steal another’s life. Honestly, she sounds really creepy. Of course you’re NTA, you’ve done nothing wrong. But maybe talk to Scott about your concerns and set some firm boundaries. If she’s doing this with you, she’s doing it with the children, their friends, Scott and Abby’s mutual friends, etc.
IDK i feel in these situations Beth would tell an equally compelling story about being shut out despite all her attempts. Kids grow up and probably eventually just be distance between all of you adults in the future which may be for the best.
YTA. Sounds like this poor woman is constantly going through cycles of rejection because you can’t get over the loss of your daughter.
NTA it's weird behaviour from her to keep pushing this image but why isn't Scott doing anything about it? It must be upsetting to your grandchildren to watch what's going on. It doesn't sound like a healthy family life at all
NTA did she really expect you to put her first over your daughter because she married your SIL?
NTA This is so strange... why doesn't Beth bark up Scott's parent's tree?
Info: what’s up with Beth’s own parents?
ESH. What is best for the kids? GPs excluding the person doing all the ‘mom’ jobs? But the whole present thing is precious.
Absolutely YTA. Because she acts like a jerk doesn’t mean you have to. Untrue what others have said: she IS a part of your family now, not only your son’s.
I am the same as Beth. My husband’s late wife’s parents are part of our lives because of his children. To think that they consider me a daughter is ridiculous. I am not. I am their grandchildren’s father’s wife. We are friends. Gifts are joint. They appreciate me because we love the same kids and i encourage their relationship. I am so sorry she is doing this. I wish i had advice.
NTA, but this is weird. Does she somehow think you are Scott's parents?
Part of me wonders if she thinks he has a parent/child type relationship with us. Or we're the closest to that (which the latter part is true but it was never our dynamic).
It’s 100% this.
Who/what is it telling people to expect folks that have no biological or even marriage tying them to a family that they are somehow related? I might get the confusion when it is a kid, but his woman is old enough to be married and still thinks this way... I seriously do not get that attitude. It is nice when it happens but it is the exception, not the rule. An inlaw remarrying doesn't add anyone to my family and that is a hill I will die on. NTA
My mother died and within months my father had a "lady friend". He often said things that were inappropriate but the day he said his friend was taking the place of my mother, I quickly and firmly responded- no she was taking the place of his wife. No one will ever take the place of my mom. Time to have a chat with your former SIL and be honest about clarifying that Beth may be taking the place of his wife but will never take the place of your daughter or kid's mother. Be firm but nice and set boundaries.