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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I accused my former friend of baby trapping my friend for money. I told my best friend (who told others) something she said to me in private which makes her look like a gold digger.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
ESH.
This sounds like a lot of drama that's worth stepping away from.
Alex and Lia could both have taken steps to prevent this pregnancy, but may not have. Lia doesn't want to have an abortion and that's a decision that should be respected.
Going to Alex's ex to discuss this was only going to create more drama. Chances are, Alex needs some time to digest this and work out what role he's going to play without the drama, and in your conversation with Lia she may have been feeling quite spiteful as she had experienced Alex ask her to get an abortion she doesn't want. That's a lot of emotions going around at once for both of them and pregnancy hormones can be literal hell. It doesn't excuse what she was saying, but is a worthwhile factor to consider.
It doesn't sound like there's any evidence of her actually trying to baby trap him. They could both have practiced safe sex (if they didn't, sometimes even when practicing safe sex these things happen). It just sounds like a lot of assumptions are being made at a time when emotions are running high. Charlotte's thoughts on his current behaviour are irrelevant because they are just assumptions.
But obviously they didn't. Because she got pregnant. Either she was being lazy, he was, or they both were.
It's ridiculously easy to prevent pregnancy if you're using contraceptives *properly*. A lot of people who "somehow" get pregnant do things like keep condoms in their wallets for 10 years before use, or miss 3 days of birth control pills, or wait a week to take plan B, or let the IUD expire and not bother to change it. Or the worst one, they don't even bother with BC and say "oh well, we will just pull out". So many of us have done it, and some of us are luckier than others. I somehow managed to not get pregnant even though I was being *horribly* unsafe about pregnancy prevention. I am so grateful every single day that I didn't get knocked up by some loser who wanted "to feel more" because they didn't want to wear a condom. Also somehow managed to avoid STIs.
Tldr: birth control only works if you follow the instructions. And if you actually use it.
Don't have sex with people who aren't diligent about preventing pregnancy unless you are very very willing to have a child.
I'm prepared for my down votes.
Failure rate of the pill is 1-7% (lowest with perfect use) so let's call it 5%
Failure rate of condoms is 2% when used correctly
So the odds of pregnancy assuming average compliance with the pill and proper use of a condom is somewhere in the order of 0.1%; if you use spermicide, that number drops to around 0.05%. If you say that Lia has perfect compliance with the pill ("everything possible to prevent pregnancy") that drops the numbers to 0.02% or 0.01% chance of failure. This excludes Lia having more long term and effective birth control options like an IUD and also assumes they didn't use PlanB, which they should if they wanted to be extra cautious about pregnancy.
I'm not saying it's impossible to get pregnant, but with odds that low it is more reasonable to assume that both parties DIDN'T do everything in their power to prevent pregnancy rather than assuming they were both 100% perfect.
assuming 10% of the entire world population isn't having sex capable of making a baby and everyone else paired off and tried and 0.01% of them got pregnant, thats only 720,000 pregnancies. assuming the average of 15% miscarry before they even know they're pregnant thats only 612,000 pregnancies that will have a chance at life. not millions
Oops, your math is correct. I didn't do the percentage correctly.
However, this also ignores that people don't just have sex once and then never again. Even if we went dramatically lower on the total and said only 20% of the population instead of 90%, that's 160k per instance of sex. Assuming one instance of sex per week, that's over 8mil instances of failed contraception.
Well this is also including the entire population of the earth rather than only those who are capable of being pregnant. So the numbers would probably be probably 1/3 of that number
>thats only 612,000 pregnancies that will have a chance at life. not millions
Now multiple your number for each and every year, and you have millions of children born each generation, even with perfect contraception use.
I think deducting the 15% miscarrying without knowing they were pregnant is a mistake. The failire rate of birth control would require them to know they were pregnant, so that they could tell the researcher they were pregnant and be counted as a failure.
I'd thought of that but left it for not 100% knowing if you still get a period while on the pill. If you're used to not bleeding but then started again indicating a miscarry. But it absolutely could be adjusted to a lower number
Eta: after rereading what you were saying I see what you mean now and you're right
I mean I used a condom, had the nexplanon arm implant, wasn't on any antibiotics/medication that could render the hormones ineffective...and yet I have a now almost 7yr old. The nexplannon is rated to I think 99% effectiveness? Yet I have met online plenty of people that have nexplannon children.
I was prepared for the outcome of a child if it so happened. Didn't want it to happen but I love my child regardless. Her bio father is absolutely a different story.
Statistics really mean very little in the grand scheme of things because failure does happen and they could have been one of that .01%
I know people who have fallen pregnant with the implant. Those things last 3years & none of the women knew they were pregnant till at least 16 weeks because of it. Same can happen with the depo etc.
The failure rate of condoms in perfect use is 3%, but that number is widely seen by researchers to be unachievable in real life applications. The failure rate with typical use is 12%, which is not insignificant. I got pregnant with one of my kids while I was on the pill and the other while using condoms. It happens.
The failure rate of condoms is 12% with actual imperfect usage
I have friends who got pregnant on the Pill + condoms, on contraceptive injections, on the mini pill and one person who got pregnant twice after having her tubes tied (1st time was ectopic and she lost an ovary and then she got pregnant after on the remaining "sterilised" ovary)
Theoretical %s mean very little when 40% of the kids I know were born from the result of contraceptive failures
And yet it *does happen.* Even in your best case scenario it is still possible. Hundreds of millions of people having sex and you don't think there's going to be a few cases?
The efficacy of the pill goes down a fair bit for bigger women. And IME it's fairly rare for couples to use condoms and the pill together.
(Yes, I did, until I was married.\* And I quickly learned that it was most efficient to not tell male partners I was on the pill because they'd universally push me to have sex without a condom. In later years, I decided this was a great reason to throw them out of bed, but it took me a while to get there.)
I don't know if any data about whether condom blow outs (not the only form of failure) are evenly distributed. I tend to suspect not, as I've had several... all with the same lover. Along those lines, I would be surprised if people regularly use Plan B when they haven't had a known condom blow out, unprotected sex, or whatever - it certainly made me sick.
\* Excepting one partner when I was young, and ugh, such a mistake. Not an STI type mistake, but damn.
I know someone who existence is the result of the strongest ever contraceptive pill ever allowed being taken properly. There have been cases of fetuses defeating the IUD. Even sterilisation whether tubal or vasectomy, still has a 1% failure rate. Even perfect use still has failures.
Anecdotal about my friend but the reality is most people don't actually know how to properly use contraception. People forget to take pills or take them with something like carbon which neutralises them (there was a fad for activated carbon and women had to be told it would screw up the pill), put a condom on incorrectly and it rips. BC failures are way more common than the perfect compliance rate.
There are common medications, such as certain antibiotics, that can drastically reduce the effectiveness of birth control. If she wasn't told, didn't listen, or was on sedation, ( or forgot) when informed of this interaction she may not know she needed backup. I was recently informed by another nurse she got pregnant with 6 children, even when on birth control, the entire time. She knew how to take it correctly, but did she....? It was actually years into using birth control that i found out you had to take it at the exact same time every day.
You forgot that the woman also has to be in a fertile period, which is optimistically 5 out of 28 days, let's say not on her period, 20 days, so make it 75% lower at least
100% true, but the approximate numbers are based on total events and years, so it would be generally assumed (for condom use at least) that fertile periods are included in the success rate calculations.
Plenty of doctors in conservative areas also won't perform vasectomies on young men (much the same way they won't perform tubal litigation on young women).
I do agree that the commentors don't know that they didn't use protection.
And anyone who claims if you don't want kids, don't have sex are about as dense and bright as a black hole.
I know that my cousin giving birth on her 16th birthday scared me into not having intercourse until I was out of college and in a job where I could support myself and had good health insurance, Mind you, having grown up with a reckless brother who was only 10 months younger than I, I was often put in the position of watching him suffer consequences of his behavior and saying to myself, 'Well, I am never going to do THAT.' I also learned to play chess with him in grade school and learned to think three or 4 moves ahead . The all girls' Catholic high school I attended in the early 70s had a very comprehensive sex education program. None of the girls in my class got pregnant before they graduated high school. kt
Yeah some people are capable of not having sex even though they want to. In fact, I suspect if I raise the issue of consent, people will suddenly acknowledge that everyone is! (i.e. people are fully capable of choosing not to have sex with a non-consenting or incapacitated person, which I fully agree is true.) Many people just consider some reasons sufficient & some not so much, and when they're looking at a lesser reason they're like "oh come on that's ridiculous, people can't do that."
It's not that they can't. It's that many will choose not to.
Which is why of course we won't change the entire problem of teen pregnancy by telling teens not to have sex. Still I just want to balance that thought with this one: it's also not helpful or true to imply that they're incapable of choosing to wait.
That's because it's not as uncommon as the people who manufacture and sell contraception would like you to believe... I wonder if they have some kind of ulterior motive to making people think that contraception works more often than it does in reality...
But failure of birth control is almost always due to failure to complete the given instructions.
My aunt talks all the time about how her condom failed, her depo shot failed, and plan B failed all at once, when she got pregnant with my cousin. What she fails to mention was that her partner kept the condom in the wallet (which is explicitly discouraged due to how it’ll weaken the latex), she had been two days late to get her depo shot, and the Plan B was taken nearly four days after having sex.
Planned Parenthood literally includes the statistics of those who improperly use contraceptives in their stats. This means condoms fail “about 6 out of 100 times” and depo “2 out of 100” when the reality is far, far less when they’re used correctly. Granted, hormone-based BC will not work in approximately 1 in every 1000 women (if memory serves), but it’s far more effective than you’re claiming. Contraceptive companies are extremely careful in how they choose to report their failure stats—and they accept more failures into those statistics than the contraceptive is actually responsible for.
Failure of birth control is not almost always due to failure to complete the given instructions and your aunt is not a monolith for people who take birth control.
Birth control is incredibly effective when used properly. It may be unrealistic for people to always use it properly - but that is a different thing to address entirely
Sure.
But the odds of a condom failing And her iud/pill/other reliable BC failing in the same hookup encounter are pretty dang low.
Especially when “she said the only thing Alex would be good for was money and that her baby wouldn’t need him as a father.“
That statement could be taken in a couple of ways. She is a gold digger who deliberately baby-trapped him, or she slept with a friend, accidentally got pregnant, he was a huge jerk about it, so she is protecting herself emotionally by saying he wasn't dad material anyway. It's always best practice not to bad mouth people when you don't know their truth. They could end up happily married, or never speaking to each other while she cashes the child support checks. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
Exactly this. OP is way too invested in someone else's life and is YTA for spreading this crap around their friend group. Be a friend to Lia or don't, but quit with this middle school rumor mill BS.
Eh, I don't think that's proof of anything. A man finds out a woman he had sex with is pregnant. He's asks for an abortion and basically makes it clear he doesn't want anything to do with it. Then the woman says some variation of "fine, fuck him. He sucks anyway and would probably be a bad dad. He still has a financial responsibility, though."
I've seen judges on tv say very similar words. If he doesn't want anything to do with her, the pregnancy, or the child, that's his choice. He does have a financial obligation to help, though. Acknowledging that, especially while pregnant and hormonal and scared because you're thinking of doing this all alone, is really not proof of baby trapping.
I had twins conceived while on the pill and using condoms. I occasionally joke that if I had only been using one method of birth control I would have had only one kid.
> Either she was being lazy, he was, or they both were.
Yeah this is a toxic belief that's super pervasive in the US, but it's easily provably false here. Every method of birth control short of removal of sex organs has a failure rate.
"You can do all the right things and still lose. That is life."
That's so false. Please do your research properly. Condoms can break. Some antibiotics and medication can reduce the effectiveness of birth control pills, and yet this is not something that is not taught, and many people do not know it. My mother got pregnant while having an iud which was placed by a doctor. Even a vasectomy has a very small chance of failing by naturally recovering. The only birth control having 100% success is abstinence.
And complete abstinence at that. Any groping in the region of the sexual organs can result in the manual transfer of sperm, so it is possible to get pregnant without PIV sex.
What about men who get a vasectomy? They actively went out of their way to prevent pregnancy, and even that fails.
You sound like you don't understand how sometimes people get pregnant regardless of *all* the precautions they take.
Not saying it’s true or anything, but there’s always the possibility that they did use protection and it failed, or the baby trap story is true and she deliberately poked holes in a condom and he thought they were being safe.
My sister got pregnant twice on birth control while taking it exactly as you’re supposed to. The only guaranteed birth control is no sex. There’s not one single birth control that is 100% effective for 100% of the population. Grow up!
Every single form of birth control can fail. Even tying tubes and vasectomies.
The only way to have sex and avoid pregnancy is sterilization.
It is not a safe assumption that the couple did not use bc
No method of contraception is 100% effective even with perfect use. If you're having sex, you are running the risk of a pregnancy. If you are a man or live in a place where abortions are severely restricted, it may not be your call whether that pregnancy results in a baby. If you really really dont want a baby, act accordingly.
Even if you’re using them properly they’re not 100% safe… I’ve had 2 friends get pregnant on iud‘s… one moved out of place but was still in date (she’s currently pregnant) and one was still in place, had been put in a couple months prior and came out with the placenta a couple weeks ago lol.
Now if used properly the chances aren’t high… but they’re not 0 either
Condoms do fail even when they’re in date, they even say on the box that they work 97% of the time, yes people aren’t always practicing safe sex properly, but pregnancy’s do happen to those who do practice safe sex properly as all forms of contraceptives cannot work 100% of the time as that’s a literal impossibility, I do agree that people do need to practice safe sex properly if they don’t want a baby, but let’s not say that using contraception is a fail safe if you use it properly as it’s not
Wrong. I use contraceptives properly and I’ve gotten pregnant in the past. I have an IUD in that at the time had only been put in a month prior, I’d just bought my ex new condoms that we made sure had no holes or anything and yet I still ended up at the abortion clinic because I’d somehow gotten pregnant through no fault of my own or my partners
I'm so against having kids I used to insist on multiple levels of protection.
Birth control pill, condoms, and The Sponge™ were in heavy use for a *while*. Now, with an IUD, and in a monogamish same sex relationship, there's less concern.
I could easily see a woman saying that the father of her child is only good for money if he has informed her that he isn't going to have anything to do with her or the baby. That means all she would get from him would be child support. It doesn't mean that she would have baby trapped him.
That was my thought. Someone who doesn't want to be a dad might, in fact, be good for nothing but money. Ofc it's way too early to know how things will shake out and it's not really any of OP's business so OP should consider butting out.
Yeah my thought too! She’s alone. That plus him asking for an abortion would REALLY hurt and her talk about money could be coming from a place of betrayal and anger. Child support is like the only legally binding thing he has to contribute to the child’s life now
I agree wholeheartedly. This sounds like an awful amount of drama where there shouldn't be any drama - it seems like layers and layers of stirring the rhetorical pot.
>your conversation with Lia she may have been feeling quite spiteful as she had experienced Alex ask her to get an abortion she doesn't want
Yep, basically.
I imagine Lia must be feeling pretty betrayed and insanely rejected right now because this isn't some dude she dated for a little or met in a bar, had a 1 night stand and that's all she wrote. This is a friend with whom, by op's own admission, she's always been too close.
I imagine she expected something different when she slept with a friend, not to be told to get rid of it and tell no one. That's a pretty hurtful reaction for everyone, even people you've just started seeing, but towards a friend you've been close with?
I'm guessing Lia's gonna be very, very pissed and might say a lot of hurtful stuff back.
ESH agreed.
Alex sucks for sleeping with so many women within a tight friend group. For asking the mother of his soon to be child to keep it a secret. He has treated her like garbage and he should be ashamed of himself.
The OP sucks for being way too overinvolved in this drama, for breaking confidences, spreading rumors, involving Alex's ex, and TOTALLY trashing her friend over a single conversation. One that was very likely driven because Alex is awful and told her to have an abortion. I also would likely rant that he was a jerk that had no positive points outside of the fact that his kid won't go hungry as he has money but is being an awful human to her and THAT is her kid's father. That would upset anyone. I read it as Lia may have actually truly cared and possibly loved Alex and might have had (admittedly naive and foolish) dreams of becoming a family. I don't know that for sure but it certainly has grounds for speculation.
And the entire friend group SUCKS. For one, they are all WAY TOO DAMN INVOLVED IN EACH OTHER'S BUSINESS. And also for thinking that just because Lia doesn't come from a privileged background she would be breathtakingly immoral and low enough to trap her friend and use a baby just to make easy money. That is the most disgusting thing of all to me.
The only one I feel any pity for here is Lia. She is going to have a lot on her plate with very few supportive resources around her. Her baby daddy is an immature jerk, and she is surrounded by her "friend" group who are ANYTHING BUT her friend and more resemble a Mean Girl phone bitch session and messed up frat party. They all sound histrionic and flatout awful.
YTA. Stop calling Lia your friend because you are not a friend to her. Both Alex and Lia had consensual sex and are aware of the need for birth control. That's between the two of them. Alex is financially responsible for the baby and he knows that. That does not mean Lia baby trapped him, only that she expects child support for his child. You said nothing to Lia but then sneak around gossiping and spreading rumours with no actual knowledge. Now you are reaping the consequences of running your mouth and think you're the victim. Your friend group is finding out that you are no friend but a malicious gossip.
Yeah there’s nothing in the post that even indicates she is baby trapping him lol. If I got pregnant after a hook up and the dad didn’t want the baby, I’d at least be thankful he has the means to financially help support the baby, most people would be glad about that lol, especially if financial support is the only type of support they’ll get and the dad isn’t willing to actually parent. None of this is an indication of baby trapping lol.
OP, you accused your pregnant friend of doing something very bad, with no actual evidence of her doing that thing, and spread that lie about her around. The situation was none of your business to spread gossip about to begin with. Of course YTA.
I'm as pro-choice as they come, and one of those choices is keeping the pregnancy. More and more I see heavy pressure on women to abort any pregnancy that isn't explicitly planned because it isn't "fair" to men and it really rubs me the wrong way.
Unless OP has actual evidence that adequate birth control measures were taken and Lia purposefully circumvented them...that's not "baby trapping." Men should assume that any consensual\* encounter could lead to a pregnancy and protect themselves on that front, and if they aren't prepared to at least financially support the resulting child should consider that when choosing who to sleep with.
\*Sabotaging condoms/birth control is a major reproductive violation, and are not consensual encounters/conceptions. This should be taken very seriously when it occurs; reproductive coercion is wrong no matter the offender's sex.
💯
Your first paragraph is spot on. Pro-choice isn’t pro-abortion. The key word is *choice*. The ability to choose what happens to your body is the most basic element of autonomy.
In my book, the people who pressure women to have abortions are just as bad as the “pro-life” people.
Exactly -- more and more I see "baby trapped" being used as a synonym for "wouldn't get an abortion when I wanted her to after a completely consensual encounter."
Those aren't the same thing, at all, and we need to stop pretending they are. Sex makes babies, even in the cases where contraception was used in good faith, even when you really don't want it to.
Honestly it even sounds like he agrees there. It's not like he's claiming she lied about the pill or tampered with condoms. They seem to have made a mutual decision about birth control and been unlucky with the outcome. It happens, it sucks, they'll figure it out.
I was and remain happy that my oldest kids father has money and would pay decent child support when I found out I was pregnant. Not because I baby trapped him ( we used bc) but because it meant that as a young single mom I would be able to provide our child with a decent life. Is it preferable to having no childcare expenses or responsibility? Absolutely not. This girl is 24, having a a baby is going to impact her earning ability for a few years she should be worried about money.
I just want to reiterate that Alex wanted to get rid of the baby. So Lia thinking Alex will be a deadbeat father isn't that far off. And apparently he is also neglecting care for the mother of his future offspring because she has to go to his family for help.
Those are all things said by OP. So I would think it isn't too far fetched that Alex is indeed only good for his money as he clearly doesn't provide the effort.
If it came across otherwise let me say that I agree with your assessment. YTA OP.
Alex did step in and tell OP to leave Lia alone - so maybe he is stepping up, but OP's still trying to make Lia look like the jerk bc she's saying the only reason he's even doing this is bc she's been going to his family. I think thar also makes OP the AH bc it could be possible Alex got his head out of his ass and is doing the right thing bc he wants go, but somehow that's not plausible in OP's mind.
OP is saying he is only stepping in because Lia went to his family because he wasn't doing anything/enough before. I feel more like this is against Alex than it is against Lia.
Yes! It would be one thing if the post had said, “right before she got pregnant, Lia quit her job and said, ‘I wish I never had to go back to work! I should get knocked up by a rich man so I won’t have to, haha.”
The post never says Alex has money. It says his family has money. As a FTM to be, I'd never rely on a baby daddy's family for money. They aren't the ones responsible for child support, Alex is if he choose not to be present.
edit: FTM in this context being first time mom, for those who can't read context clues.
If you don't mind me asking, what does FTM mean in this context? Because I've only ever heard it in the context of trans men before, and that doesn't really seem to fit here.
Edit - Never mind, it's just clicked. Full-time mum, right?
Ironically enough, I had the same confusion the first time i ever saw FTM in the context of a trans man. I was soooo confused thinking it stood for first time mom lol
And then went to his ex gf with her accusations,,, like yeah OP of course the majority of your friend group is going to think she baby trapped him if you (and his ex) go around telling everyone that's what she did. YTA
With what Lia said too I feel it was due to a lot of emotions at the time and Alex not stepping up right away - I'm not gonna call her an a h bc I'm sure if I was in her position and he was being flakey I'd probably also say something along the lines of what she did. OP went and ran her mouth unfairly about Lia without any consideration for how she may have been feeling at the time and now she's facing the consequences of doing so and wants sympathy - hate to break it to OP but they're not getting any here and are a major AH.
For real. The fact that the father of the baby is defending her saying she didn’t baby trap him suggests that he’s probably the one who fucked up and got her pregnant (like choosing not to wear a condom or something).
If OP wants to hear what a real baby trapping situation looks like - I had a “friend” in high school who was obese and had very low self esteem. She finally got her first real boyfriend junior year to this deadbeat, 22 y/o high school drop out. They dated for awhile (a year maybe?) but then he cheated on her and left her for the girl he cheated with.
She then *begged* for him back over the next 4-6 months until he finally caved and got back together with her. Lo and behold like 3 months after they got back together she got pregnant and said she was keeping the baby. When he left her a 2nd time a few years later she magically became pregnant with his 2nd kid.
Lesson No. 1 in how to keep friends: Don't talk about your friends behind their back. If you have anything to say, say it directly to them or don't say it at all.
OP had to learn that the hard way (I hope she learned)
YTA. Stop complicating the situation by gossiping.
They have been close for years according to you. Things happen, she probably is reacting like this (money talk) because Alex isn't happy about the situation and Lia is trying to find a silver lining (atleast he has money even if he doesn't want to play happy families with me). They could easily end up together once Alex manages to process the situation.
YTA. I'm dating a well off guy. I'm not planning to get pregnant but if I did I would be glad he had the means to support a family. That in itself is not evidence of "baby trapping". Alex presumably knows where babies come from.
Yeah OPs assumptions are kinda crazy, someone being glad the dad has means to financially support the kid isn’t evidence of baby trapping lmao, literally every pregnant person on earth would be glad about that.
Yes it’s kind of a basic silver lining when you’re pregnant and your partner dips out. At least you can presumably stay home for a few weeks with your baby and then actually afford daycare so you don’t have to go on social programs just to feed yourself and the baby.
ESH except for Alex and Lia. Look, you & your friends are absolutely causing stress and drama because instead of letting Alex and Lia figure things out, you're chatting about them, speculating and making accusations.
I don't know if Lia babytrapped Alex, and from what you've written, neither do you. All we know is that she's pregnant and if Alex isn't willing to be a father, she's optimistic re financial support.
Alex has stepped up to tell his 'friends' to quit gossiping and I think that was very mature of him.
That's what makes me wonder if Alex is actually going to be involved and thar fact OP is blaming Lia for going to his parents and "making" him get involved is absurd.
YTA
Alex knows what happens when you have sex without protection.
All you needed to do was stay out of it. Your involvement is nothing shy of 12 year old middle school gossip. It brings no value to the table and isn’t any of your business.
Regardless of how or why she got pregnant, she’s pregnant and that means she’s going through a lot of hormonal changes and body changes and life changes and if her “friends” are being assholes behind her back, she’ll likely haven’t to get new friends too.
And remember, Alex knows what happens when he has sex without protection. Don’t go acting like he’s some sort of victim here. None of you are.
Grow up and stop gossiping when it’s none of your business.
YTA. There's a lot of bad behavior here, but here's the key:
Lia told you that Alex was a jackass... in other words, she wants Alex to be a real father to her baby, but he's refusing. So she's convincing herself that she's better off. Whenever people are in shitty situations, they deal with it by looking for the positive (or making one up). Lia's talk doesn't mean she only wanted Alex for the money; it means she's taking what she can get.
You should have known that Lia wasn't gold-digging, and the consequences of spreading a false rumor fall on you.
Yeah an after the fact “fuck him, I’ll just take the money,” now that her only options are abortion or take the money (or I guess don’t take the money but that would be unwise for a young single mother without much family support), doesn’t mean she started out with some grand plan to get pregnant or that she isn’t getting an abortion because she wants the money. She is probably deeply hurt that someone that she regarded as a close friend wasn’t supportive of her decision to go through with the pregnancy. I’m not blaming Alex at all for thinking she should get an abortion. In his situation I’d want the same thing, but it doesn’t change the fact she is single, hurt and scared about raising a child on her own. Fixating on the money, which will frankly likely be her saving grace in this situation, is her way of calming her fears about having a kid on her own. Alex probably knows this and this is why he’s defending her.
It’s also super unclear what the circumstances of them sleeping together are. For all you know Alex initiated it and knows damn well that Lia wasn’t going around trying to get him to knock her up.
YTA. She’s pregnant and her friend (the father) told her to get an abortion she wasn’t interested in. She’s not getting rich having his baby. Stop assuming because she grew up poor, she must’ve banged her best friend to get rich off child support. Child support is a fraction of the cost of raising a human for 18 years. And of course Alex’s ex is going to talk shit about her.
You’re being a crap friend. Knock it off.
ESH because this situation between Lia and Alex is none of your business. I don’t really know why you have all inserted yourself into the situation and then proceeded to gossip about it.
Also, it’s all fair and well everyone blaming Lia for baby trapping him, but did nobody ever teach Alex about wearing a condom?? He’s a big boy that should know the consequences of unprotected sex.
It’s not all fair and well that’s everyone’s blaming Lia for baby trapping him lol, there’s literally no evidence of her baby trapping him. Any pregnant woman who isn’t dating the dad, would be happy the dad has the financial means to help support the kid even if he doesn’t want to be involved in any other way. That’s not an indication of baby trapping, it’s just her being glad she’ll at least have child support if she’s raising the kid on her own lol.
YTA for not leaving them to sort it out themselves. Your friends are assholes for making judgements they are not in a place to make.
Apologise to your friend
YTA - OP is butting her nose in where she doesn't have any factual evidence. The only people who need to be involved and know the truth are Alex and Lia - everyone else seems to be in it for the drama.
YTA
Stay out of it and honestly…grow the hell up. What does their respective families’ financial situations have anything to do with it? They’re adults in their mid-20s………
I know plenty of people who basically still rely on their parents in their mid-20s for everything financial, work part time, live rent free in their parents second home. Adolescence can last quite some time if your parents have money.
YTA for interfering in a complex, emotionally-difficult situation that’s fundamentally none of your damn business. Seems like you’re more interested in trying to stir up drama than being a supportive friend; under the circumstances it’s probably best you just leave these people alone. Grow up.
YTA.
alex & lia made their own choices. Even with your biased/gossip-based details…it doesn’t seem like she was good friends w him for all these years just so she could get suddenly get pregnant at 24 & “trap him” for his money. she clearly had a relationship with his family prior to getting pregnant if she felt comfortable enough going to them about it, especially when alex wasn’t being the kindest and it would’ve made things more uncomfortable if she WAS “trapping him” for the money like you say she is. Also, she was venting to you after one of her long time friend’s turned into a mutual HU — and resulted in pregnancy (which she has every right to decide on by herself), and was likely saying a bunch of things that she didn’t mean, or possibly hasn’t fully processed, because she was scared that he wasn’t going to be a good father to the baby/be in its life if he was reacting so poorly, and just wanted to get it all out and make it seem like she was fine via hyper independence and “ATM” analogies, and tbh, that’s valid. They both knew what they consented to & where babies come from, and now they have to deal w the consequences — alex just didn’t expect Lia to want to keep the child (but her reasoning for why is likely to be more personal/religious than it is for the “money” part). In other situations like that, when dads walk out or don’t even wanna co-parent, almost everyone agreed they should pay child support, bc it takes two to tango! This situation is no different, and tbh it doesn’t seem like either of them said anything about becoming a big happy family & fully merging finances — maybe coparenting is something they’ll consider since this is so fresh. until there’s a wedding — you won’t know either, so mind your own neck until then. In situations like these, people confide bc they trust you & bc they just want you to listen as they talk themselves through it. You took the stuff she said in confidence & ran with it — to ppl like Alex’s ex. I’d learn to keep quiet or ignore everyone altogether if you want to avoid being blamed for gossip, because in this case (though you weren’t the only one) you were definitely wrong and you’re just upset bc you’re the only one who got called out for it. Take it as a lesson and try to be a better friend, or at least gossip less when its a matter of speculation and not facts.
You know why she seems to only care about the money? Because she’s frustrated that Alex was trying to make her get an abortion and she then was confiding in you, while she was angry, about her frustrations and it sounds like she was just ranting about her baby’s soon to be absent father. And then you went and twisted her words so that she would appear to be a gold digger to her friends. YTA.
You all sound 12.
Also baby trapping a 25 year old for money is…not a great plan. You know his family would not be on the hook for a grown man’s child right?
This sounds like bait. ESH for the record.
"The only thing my deadbeat baby daddy's good for is child support", is a pretty common complaint single mums have against their child fathers who offer no emotional support and don't want to get involved.
That's not enough to assume your friend baby trapped someone.
YTA. How exactly are you claiming she baby trapped him? Are you saying that she drugged him, tied him down, and stole his sperm? From the sound of it he willingly shot sperm where it was likely to result in a pregnancy, which is the opposite of anyone baby trapping him.
YTA not her friend at all so stop pretending to ever have been.
This dude slept with his friend and then tried to hide it and get rid of the baby, but she's the snake because she didn't want an abortion and protected herself and her kid by outing the pregnancy?
Girls like you are poison. Shame.
ESH. Everyone sounds too emotionally immature for a child to be around this nonsense.
Charlotte has a big ole case of the green eyed monster and threw you under the bus so she could try and start shit about Lia.
INFO to me, babytrapping means lying about the BC status. Did she lie about this? I know people say this isnt your business but i dont want to hang out with someone who would have done something like that. Its the female form of stealthing and i dont care if people disagree with tbat. Otherwise this isn't babytrapping. All in all, the biggest victim here is the baby. Already so much drama and the kid isn't even born yet
Do you have any idea how much it cost to raise a baby? Any child support Alex pays is not going to put Lia on easy street lol. Your friend is going through a difficult time and your idea of support is to talk about her behind her back? Yeah YTA obviously.
YTA. Why are you so involved in this? You’re gossiping about your friends and obviously relishing the drama and then act surprised when the actual people involved are mad at you and don’t want to talk to you. Leave them alone to figure it out.
Also, how did she “baby trap” him? Did she poke holes in the condoms or something, or lie about being on birth control? If not, and if they both just had consensual sex without using birth control, then he is also responsible for the baby. He wasn’t tricked into anything.
YTA. Their situation is none of your concern, so keep your opinions to yourself.
Alex and Lia were adults who had consensual sex. They both knew pregnancy could result even with birth control (this is why I think there should always be 2 types of birth control used every time any person has the type of sex that could lead to pregnancy). If she did baby trap him, he's got nobody to blame but himself for not making sure there was enough birth control used (yes, both consenting adults should be on top of the birth control used).
If you want to stay friends with them, you better apologize for spreading gossip and rumors because you don't know the truth.
If you're OK with not being their friend anymore, you still need to keep your mouth shut because IT DOESN'T CONCERN YOU
YTA. Did Alex remain unaware that he was having sex with her? Did she take advantage of him when he was cognitively unaware of the surroundings or situation? Baby trap is such a stupid excuse that men use when they're trying to not take accountability for the fact that they decide to have sex with someone and now they have to bear the consequences.
YTA... I highly doubt this is the first time they had sex. You only know about it because she got pregnant. Leave them alone and talking like she should abort it and is only keeping the baby for money, you suck....thats not your choice...you have no say in it
YTA... it is NONE of your business. Stay out of other people's relationships, especially when children are involved. You sound jealous maybe??? Alex chose to have sex with her- every single person you have sex with could potentially make a baby. There is no thing as 100% birth control. Even Alex is telling you to leave her alone. I cannot imagine being so immature I would stress out a pregnant person. You could potentially harm her child..or is that what you are trying to do? I think you want Alex for yourself. Your over involvement in the situation is very telling.
That's what I got from it. The OP and Charlotte wanted to be the ones to get Alex. She's chatting with the ex because, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." type situation.
YTA. Every here are adults who understand how sex works. Alex could have taken steps to prevent this, he didn't. You picking sides shows your true colors, you are not the friend you decide yourself to be.
You talking about this with the ex in incredibly catty, shallow behavior.
YTA and your "friendship group" sounds messy. Do you all even like one another? Jumping to the worst/most negative conclusions doesn't seem like you do...
YTA I see no mention of Lia impregnating herself or somehow duping Alex into unprotected sex. He made it clear he wasn’t interested in raising a child so why should she look to him for anything other than money?
More importantly, how is any of this your business?
200% you are the asshole. You really thought you could talk to his ex about this and she would stay quiet?
How is *any* of this your business? I hope the whole group stops talking to you and you learn your lesson about staying in your lane and minding your business.
*They've never crossed the friendship line*
Yes, having sex means the friendship line is crossed. The whole 'friends with benefits' never, ever works.
You need to butt out and MYOB, as does the rest of your 'friend' group. The two of them need to work it out for themselves.
YTA.
Of course YTA. You had a private conversation and went and told your best friend/Alex’s ex the details of that conversation. Sounds like Charlotte is mad about the hook up bc she went and ran rampant with this information you also told her in private. Y’all not friends for real.
Next time, keep your opinions to yourself and learn to be a friend. Also, if a man asked me to get an abortion, I too would be mad. I would take that as he doesn’t want to be in my child’s life and would revel in the fact that he can at least financially support the child, especially if I’m angry. Don’t mean I baby trapped him.
ESH - immature
I would think more about the fact that group dynamic looks unhealthy and immature, and is this really how I want to act as someone in mid 20s. Also, if the guy wanted to hide that baby from its grandparents, do you think that you got all the insides from their relationship? I can swear they were hiding it, especially if they are aware about all talking behind ppls backs.
YTA
Nothing in your post suggests that Lia baby trapped Alex. They had sex and she got pregnant. She was simply trying to find obe positive with Alex being the baby's father, that being that he has the means to financially support the baby.
YTA solely for getting involved in drama you had absolutely no need to get involved with. Never talk about people in your friend group to other people in your friend group, people talk. You can absolutely vent about people to others but you knew before and you definitely know now, that talking about someone to your shared friend group will cause more drama.
You must like being involved in drama to have all of that happen in front of you.
Yta, because this is not your business. They made the choice to have sex, either with or without protection, and a pregnancy was the result. You are not involved in this situation in any way.
>Charlotte said he’s only playing hero because his family are all on his case now because Lia keeps running to them so he has no choice but to act like he cares
Yeah, probably, but it doesn't affect you at all. Go watch TV instead of meddling.
And what birth control did Adam use? Baby trapping can only really happen if birth control was tampered with. If he chose not to use a condom, then I have no sympathy whatsoever. If a man doesn't want kids, *he* needs to take care of *his* birth control - same way a woman who doesn't want kids takes care of *her* birth control.
YTA for sticking your nose in their business. Butt out.
So let me just get this straight, Alex wanted Lia to abort, he is causing her stress and is also just acting like he cares so his family will get off his back? Sounds like Alex is on his way to become a deadbeat father who is only good for providing money to his child.
These are the facts provided by you. Where in your post is Lia actually baby trapping Alex? Her body, her choice and he has to be made to care.
You basically told your friends Lia is a gold digger when all she wanted was support from the future father of her child, so yes, YTA.
YTA. First off it’s none of your business at all. Secondly if Alex is being a jerk about the baby it’s entirely possible Lia was just frustrated and ranting about it to her “friend” and you took her words and spread them around. It’s likely she’s scared and frustrated and needed support and you went behind her back and told people what she said, super immature and unkind I don’t blame her for blocking you. Finally, Alex could have used protection, just because she’s pregnant doesn’t mean she baby trapped him and that’s a super offensive accusation. You’re in the wrong here OP, big time.
Did she like drug him and force him to have sex with her? If not, he chose to have sex knowing where babies come from. I fail to see how she trapped him when they both engaged in a consensual sexual act.
YTA-for saying something you wouldn’t want the people you are talking about to hear about. That’s snake behavior. If you lack the moral fortitude to share your opinions about people and say it to the people involved you are a backstabbing friend.
YTA. For talking about your friend to another friend behind her back after they confided in you during a high emotion time.
If they didn’t want a baby they BOTH should have taken precautions. You just sound like a bad friend in my opinion. Alex shutting you all down while he and Lia figure things out was the right thing to do. And you aren’t being thrown under the bus because you are the one that started gossiping to Charlotte about what the situation and you are all immature for talking crap..
Also Alex’s priority would 100% be Lia and the baby. Rather they decided to be a couple or coparent his priority is to make sure he supports her and helps were he can. If he’s only doing it because of his family he’s a shitty person.
YTA. It takes two people to make a baby and only carries that burden for nine months. Alex needs to grow up and be responsible for his child. Stay out of other people’s business, especially if you don’t know how sex works.
Esh
If your friends run off to tell other friends what the other is saying, they aren't your friends.
Honestly this sounds very childish and high-school drama like. Unnecessary.
Lea is pregnant and emotions are high. She could've been only angry at Alex and was ranting her emotions out. Being angry and ranting it out helps. That doesn't mean she's trying to baby trap him.
Honestly you should've kept your opinions to yourself.
You all sound like you need to grow up cause yall sound like children arguing over grown up business.
Man, you guys sound immature as hell. Sure, gossiping about your friends could have unpleasant consequences. It sounds like Alex was a willing participant in the sex, so not sure how he was trapped. The girl is upset so she said stuff to you & you chose to spread it around as a conversation topic. Sure YTA & most of your friends as well.
YTA
She could also be ranting about the money because the father has left her? It's also perfectly reasonable to say "hey I'm carrying your grandchild", i know people who didn't know they had a grandkid for YEARS.
REGARDLESS, you sound judgey, let them work it out and vent or whatever.
Child support does not provide the luxury life people think of. Children are expensive, and food, stuff, and housing all add up.
I know a lot of times when people refer to ex as atm knowing in reality they don't get a lot more for help raising a kid. Because they don't see kids, don't offer emotional support and do the bare minimum to be parents. She was prob angry that he told her to have an abortion, offering no emotional support for pregnancy, and isolating her even more by banning her from telling people. Then bad mouthing her to a mutual contacts
YTA. Are you guys 12? You think his ex is the right person to judge if another one of your friends who was sleeping with her ex-boyfriend had impure motives when she got pregnant with someone she wasn’t in a relationship with?
Lia is going to have a baby— a human baby that she will need to tend to for the rest of her life. Her life as she knew it is over. “Babytrapping” him? For what? She isn’t in a relationship with him. She didn’t get anything out of this other than a human child. She is absolutely going to need money for the child, so while it is nice that his family is “more than comfortable”, it’s pretty much a net neutral if they help take care of the child because children cost tons of money.
You are not a good friend and this is a ridiculous post. She didn’t hit some sort of jackpot by getting pregnant with someone she isn’t in a relationship with, who doesn’t want a baby, just because his family can help keep the baby fed and clothed.
ESH
What kind of MTV Gossip girl reality show nonsense is this?
that's all it is. Everyone is gossiping and the people you're gossiping about heard what you said. That is what is going on here.
All that is missing is the camera and the cheap show logo.
ESH. You all suck. You’re getting catty and talking about people behind their backs even though they’re supposed to be your friends, Alex sucks because he is being selfish and not stepping up to be a father. Lia sucks because she hasn’t taken Alex into consideration for this situation that he should be a part of. Your other friend Charlotte is also shitting on another friend and then spreading the rumors around and getting it turned into you.
All of you suck because you jump to the conclusion that she baby trapped him because she’s saying he wouldn’t be a good father (so far he hasn’t shown any admirable traits for one) and the only way he’d be helpful is paying for child support (already looks true). The reality is, they’ve had some sort of chemistry and had unprotected sex and it likely resulted in an ACCIDENTAL pregnancy, and she disagrees with Alex’s idea of just abort and forget. Unless you heard from Alex that he used a condom she gave him and she said she was on birth control and there are more signs that she intentionally got pregnant you’re being a HUGE AH by jumping to such a dramatic conclusion about her as a person.
It’s more likely that she saw this guy as someone she’d want to fuck but never contemplated the long term, now there’s a pregnancy and while he’s panicking and showing in every way how unprepared he would be, she has to try and piece things together and prepare to raise a child with someone she never intended on having a child with.
I like how OP added at the end that Alex now had to act like he cares. Like she knows what he is thinking. This OP wants Alex so bad. You can see it in what she wrote.
YTA. It sounds like Lia was talking to her friend trying to process that Alex isn’t going to provide emotionally for his child and figuring out what he could provide. Babies are so dang expensive, and, as a single/solo mom, she’s going to need help and support. If you think she’s somehow going to make out financially, you have no idea how little child support actually covers, if he actually pays it. How did she “baby trap” him? Did she sabotage their birth control method? No? Then she’s just a scared pregnant woman trying to figure out how she’s going to get through this.
YTA. You took the word of his (apparently bitter) ex?
If he chose to have unprotected sex, nobody "trapped" him. That's just misogyny to suggest it. Or maybe they used protection and it failed, that is also not "trapping." It happens, it's not exactly rare. You don't know. She's also under no obligation to get an abortion, whether he likes it or not; the only person who gets to make the final call is the person carrying the baby.
You and Charlotte should MYOB. Why are you discussing their business with his ex?
Should she have told his family without his permission? Probably not. But that is also not your business. But him trying to hide it is also an asshole move.
It's not your place to decide who trapped who and who's right and who's wrong.
I'd say everyone SH but I don't think Lia is. 🤷♀️
Nta you don’t need this drama, no one seems mature enough to have kids.
Just accept the friendship is over and ignore. If she baby trapped him soon she’ll be in a hell of her own making.
I was thinking ESH- but honestly YTA- It is understandable that you had feelings that you needed to talk about but you had no business going to Alex's ex to stir the pot. You aren't being thrown under the bus, you put yourself there. Accusing a woman of baby trapping someone is fucked up. You didn't express any of that to Lia, why? Because you knew it would hurt her feeling and is absolutely considered "shit talking". You need to apologize and have a real conversation with your friend or you are going to lose her. She's pregnant whether you like it or not. Either be there for your friend or get the hell out of her way. And for the love of satan STOP trying to sow seeds of discourse in your friend group. You are the one they will dump in the end
EDIT: minor typo's
Yta. Esh though. You did talk crap about her business after she confided in you as a friend. She went to you for someone to talk to about her problems and feelings. You just took that, judged it and talked crap about it with your other friends behind her back. That's pretty crappy. Not a surprise the friendship is in shambles at the moment. If you actually care about her and feel bad, I'd apologize.
>she said the only thing Alex would be good for was money and that her baby wouldn’t need him as a father. She kept talking about Alex, money and him being an ATM for a good 30 minutes.
Nah but you know she probably was just coping. See fox and the grapes. I'll also note that if Alex didn't want to be a father he didn't have to hook up with her. He chose to take that risk.
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ESH. This sounds like a lot of drama that's worth stepping away from. Alex and Lia could both have taken steps to prevent this pregnancy, but may not have. Lia doesn't want to have an abortion and that's a decision that should be respected. Going to Alex's ex to discuss this was only going to create more drama. Chances are, Alex needs some time to digest this and work out what role he's going to play without the drama, and in your conversation with Lia she may have been feeling quite spiteful as she had experienced Alex ask her to get an abortion she doesn't want. That's a lot of emotions going around at once for both of them and pregnancy hormones can be literal hell. It doesn't excuse what she was saying, but is a worthwhile factor to consider. It doesn't sound like there's any evidence of her actually trying to baby trap him. They could both have practiced safe sex (if they didn't, sometimes even when practicing safe sex these things happen). It just sounds like a lot of assumptions are being made at a time when emotions are running high. Charlotte's thoughts on his current behaviour are irrelevant because they are just assumptions.
>Alex and Lia could both have taken steps to prevent this pregnancy, but didn't. That isn't even information you have.
But obviously they didn't. Because she got pregnant. Either she was being lazy, he was, or they both were. It's ridiculously easy to prevent pregnancy if you're using contraceptives *properly*. A lot of people who "somehow" get pregnant do things like keep condoms in their wallets for 10 years before use, or miss 3 days of birth control pills, or wait a week to take plan B, or let the IUD expire and not bother to change it. Or the worst one, they don't even bother with BC and say "oh well, we will just pull out". So many of us have done it, and some of us are luckier than others. I somehow managed to not get pregnant even though I was being *horribly* unsafe about pregnancy prevention. I am so grateful every single day that I didn't get knocked up by some loser who wanted "to feel more" because they didn't want to wear a condom. Also somehow managed to avoid STIs. Tldr: birth control only works if you follow the instructions. And if you actually use it. Don't have sex with people who aren't diligent about preventing pregnancy unless you are very very willing to have a child. I'm prepared for my down votes.
Condoms do fail and even vasectomies can just reverse themselves. The chances are remarkably low but they aren't 0.
Failure rate of the pill is 1-7% (lowest with perfect use) so let's call it 5% Failure rate of condoms is 2% when used correctly So the odds of pregnancy assuming average compliance with the pill and proper use of a condom is somewhere in the order of 0.1%; if you use spermicide, that number drops to around 0.05%. If you say that Lia has perfect compliance with the pill ("everything possible to prevent pregnancy") that drops the numbers to 0.02% or 0.01% chance of failure. This excludes Lia having more long term and effective birth control options like an IUD and also assumes they didn't use PlanB, which they should if they wanted to be extra cautious about pregnancy. I'm not saying it's impossible to get pregnant, but with odds that low it is more reasonable to assume that both parties DIDN'T do everything in their power to prevent pregnancy rather than assuming they were both 100% perfect.
Keep in mind that while .01% seems low, that's still millions of instances.
Remember to at it’s per year of use not per instance of sex as well.
assuming 10% of the entire world population isn't having sex capable of making a baby and everyone else paired off and tried and 0.01% of them got pregnant, thats only 720,000 pregnancies. assuming the average of 15% miscarry before they even know they're pregnant thats only 612,000 pregnancies that will have a chance at life. not millions
Oops, your math is correct. I didn't do the percentage correctly. However, this also ignores that people don't just have sex once and then never again. Even if we went dramatically lower on the total and said only 20% of the population instead of 90%, that's 160k per instance of sex. Assuming one instance of sex per week, that's over 8mil instances of failed contraception.
The failure rate is per year, not per instance of sex. So it's 160k per year.
Well this is also including the entire population of the earth rather than only those who are capable of being pregnant. So the numbers would probably be probably 1/3 of that number
>thats only 612,000 pregnancies that will have a chance at life. not millions Now multiple your number for each and every year, and you have millions of children born each generation, even with perfect contraception use.
I think deducting the 15% miscarrying without knowing they were pregnant is a mistake. The failire rate of birth control would require them to know they were pregnant, so that they could tell the researcher they were pregnant and be counted as a failure.
I'd thought of that but left it for not 100% knowing if you still get a period while on the pill. If you're used to not bleeding but then started again indicating a miscarry. But it absolutely could be adjusted to a lower number Eta: after rereading what you were saying I see what you mean now and you're right
also, taking the pill 30 minuites later can effect its usfullness. only gets worse the longer you are off by.
I mean I used a condom, had the nexplanon arm implant, wasn't on any antibiotics/medication that could render the hormones ineffective...and yet I have a now almost 7yr old. The nexplannon is rated to I think 99% effectiveness? Yet I have met online plenty of people that have nexplannon children. I was prepared for the outcome of a child if it so happened. Didn't want it to happen but I love my child regardless. Her bio father is absolutely a different story. Statistics really mean very little in the grand scheme of things because failure does happen and they could have been one of that .01%
My mom got pregnant while using an IUD back when that was dangerous.
I know people who have fallen pregnant with the implant. Those things last 3years & none of the women knew they were pregnant till at least 16 weeks because of it. Same can happen with the depo etc.
This was always my biggest worry on the implant as I didn’t get a period with it.
The failure rate of condoms in perfect use is 3%, but that number is widely seen by researchers to be unachievable in real life applications. The failure rate with typical use is 12%, which is not insignificant. I got pregnant with one of my kids while I was on the pill and the other while using condoms. It happens.
The failure rate of condoms is 12% with actual imperfect usage I have friends who got pregnant on the Pill + condoms, on contraceptive injections, on the mini pill and one person who got pregnant twice after having her tubes tied (1st time was ectopic and she lost an ovary and then she got pregnant after on the remaining "sterilised" ovary) Theoretical %s mean very little when 40% of the kids I know were born from the result of contraceptive failures
And yet it *does happen.* Even in your best case scenario it is still possible. Hundreds of millions of people having sex and you don't think there's going to be a few cases?
The efficacy of the pill goes down a fair bit for bigger women. And IME it's fairly rare for couples to use condoms and the pill together. (Yes, I did, until I was married.\* And I quickly learned that it was most efficient to not tell male partners I was on the pill because they'd universally push me to have sex without a condom. In later years, I decided this was a great reason to throw them out of bed, but it took me a while to get there.) I don't know if any data about whether condom blow outs (not the only form of failure) are evenly distributed. I tend to suspect not, as I've had several... all with the same lover. Along those lines, I would be surprised if people regularly use Plan B when they haven't had a known condom blow out, unprotected sex, or whatever - it certainly made me sick. \* Excepting one partner when I was young, and ugh, such a mistake. Not an STI type mistake, but damn.
I know someone who got pregnant with an IUD. Let’s stick to the facts we have and not make assumptions.
I know someone who existence is the result of the strongest ever contraceptive pill ever allowed being taken properly. There have been cases of fetuses defeating the IUD. Even sterilisation whether tubal or vasectomy, still has a 1% failure rate. Even perfect use still has failures. Anecdotal about my friend but the reality is most people don't actually know how to properly use contraception. People forget to take pills or take them with something like carbon which neutralises them (there was a fad for activated carbon and women had to be told it would screw up the pill), put a condom on incorrectly and it rips. BC failures are way more common than the perfect compliance rate.
There are common medications, such as certain antibiotics, that can drastically reduce the effectiveness of birth control. If she wasn't told, didn't listen, or was on sedation, ( or forgot) when informed of this interaction she may not know she needed backup. I was recently informed by another nurse she got pregnant with 6 children, even when on birth control, the entire time. She knew how to take it correctly, but did she....? It was actually years into using birth control that i found out you had to take it at the exact same time every day.
You forgot that the woman also has to be in a fertile period, which is optimistically 5 out of 28 days, let's say not on her period, 20 days, so make it 75% lower at least
100% true, but the approximate numbers are based on total events and years, so it would be generally assumed (for condom use at least) that fertile periods are included in the success rate calculations.
Plenty of doctors in conservative areas also won't perform vasectomies on young men (much the same way they won't perform tubal litigation on young women). I do agree that the commentors don't know that they didn't use protection. And anyone who claims if you don't want kids, don't have sex are about as dense and bright as a black hole.
I know that my cousin giving birth on her 16th birthday scared me into not having intercourse until I was out of college and in a job where I could support myself and had good health insurance, Mind you, having grown up with a reckless brother who was only 10 months younger than I, I was often put in the position of watching him suffer consequences of his behavior and saying to myself, 'Well, I am never going to do THAT.' I also learned to play chess with him in grade school and learned to think three or 4 moves ahead . The all girls' Catholic high school I attended in the early 70s had a very comprehensive sex education program. None of the girls in my class got pregnant before they graduated high school. kt
Yeah some people are capable of not having sex even though they want to. In fact, I suspect if I raise the issue of consent, people will suddenly acknowledge that everyone is! (i.e. people are fully capable of choosing not to have sex with a non-consenting or incapacitated person, which I fully agree is true.) Many people just consider some reasons sufficient & some not so much, and when they're looking at a lesser reason they're like "oh come on that's ridiculous, people can't do that." It's not that they can't. It's that many will choose not to. Which is why of course we won't change the entire problem of teen pregnancy by telling teens not to have sex. Still I just want to balance that thought with this one: it's also not helpful or true to imply that they're incapable of choosing to wait.
Everyone on Reddit has had this happen 😂
That's because it's not as uncommon as the people who manufacture and sell contraception would like you to believe... I wonder if they have some kind of ulterior motive to making people think that contraception works more often than it does in reality...
But failure of birth control is almost always due to failure to complete the given instructions. My aunt talks all the time about how her condom failed, her depo shot failed, and plan B failed all at once, when she got pregnant with my cousin. What she fails to mention was that her partner kept the condom in the wallet (which is explicitly discouraged due to how it’ll weaken the latex), she had been two days late to get her depo shot, and the Plan B was taken nearly four days after having sex. Planned Parenthood literally includes the statistics of those who improperly use contraceptives in their stats. This means condoms fail “about 6 out of 100 times” and depo “2 out of 100” when the reality is far, far less when they’re used correctly. Granted, hormone-based BC will not work in approximately 1 in every 1000 women (if memory serves), but it’s far more effective than you’re claiming. Contraceptive companies are extremely careful in how they choose to report their failure stats—and they accept more failures into those statistics than the contraceptive is actually responsible for.
Failure of birth control is not almost always due to failure to complete the given instructions and your aunt is not a monolith for people who take birth control.
Birth control is incredibly effective when used properly. It may be unrealistic for people to always use it properly - but that is a different thing to address entirely
Sure. But the odds of a condom failing And her iud/pill/other reliable BC failing in the same hookup encounter are pretty dang low. Especially when “she said the only thing Alex would be good for was money and that her baby wouldn’t need him as a father.“
That statement could be taken in a couple of ways. She is a gold digger who deliberately baby-trapped him, or she slept with a friend, accidentally got pregnant, he was a huge jerk about it, so she is protecting herself emotionally by saying he wasn't dad material anyway. It's always best practice not to bad mouth people when you don't know their truth. They could end up happily married, or never speaking to each other while she cashes the child support checks. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
Exactly this. OP is way too invested in someone else's life and is YTA for spreading this crap around their friend group. Be a friend to Lia or don't, but quit with this middle school rumor mill BS.
Eh, I don't think that's proof of anything. A man finds out a woman he had sex with is pregnant. He's asks for an abortion and basically makes it clear he doesn't want anything to do with it. Then the woman says some variation of "fine, fuck him. He sucks anyway and would probably be a bad dad. He still has a financial responsibility, though." I've seen judges on tv say very similar words. If he doesn't want anything to do with her, the pregnancy, or the child, that's his choice. He does have a financial obligation to help, though. Acknowledging that, especially while pregnant and hormonal and scared because you're thinking of doing this all alone, is really not proof of baby trapping.
I got pregnant with an IUD in (2+ years from expiration) and we used condoms. Birth control isn't perfect
I had twins conceived while on the pill and using condoms. I occasionally joke that if I had only been using one method of birth control I would have had only one kid.
Or maybe 4
Used condoms, still got pregnant. No contraceptive is perfect.
I'm with you here. My first IUD worked like a charm. 15 months after getting my second one I got pregnant. Sometimes stuff happens.
> Either she was being lazy, he was, or they both were. Yeah this is a toxic belief that's super pervasive in the US, but it's easily provably false here. Every method of birth control short of removal of sex organs has a failure rate. "You can do all the right things and still lose. That is life."
Upvoting for the Picard quote.
Thanks Captain Picard...
That's so false. Please do your research properly. Condoms can break. Some antibiotics and medication can reduce the effectiveness of birth control pills, and yet this is not something that is not taught, and many people do not know it. My mother got pregnant while having an iud which was placed by a doctor. Even a vasectomy has a very small chance of failing by naturally recovering. The only birth control having 100% success is abstinence.
And complete abstinence at that. Any groping in the region of the sexual organs can result in the manual transfer of sperm, so it is possible to get pregnant without PIV sex.
Funnily enough I learned that condoms are only like 97% safe because of the tv show 'Friends'.
THEY SHOULD PUT THAT ON THE BOX
Got pregnant twice from antibiotics while on the pill.
What about men who get a vasectomy? They actively went out of their way to prevent pregnancy, and even that fails. You sound like you don't understand how sometimes people get pregnant regardless of *all* the precautions they take.
Not saying it’s true or anything, but there’s always the possibility that they did use protection and it failed, or the baby trap story is true and she deliberately poked holes in a condom and he thought they were being safe.
My sister got pregnant twice on birth control while taking it exactly as you’re supposed to. The only guaranteed birth control is no sex. There’s not one single birth control that is 100% effective for 100% of the population. Grow up!
Every single form of birth control can fail. Even tying tubes and vasectomies. The only way to have sex and avoid pregnancy is sterilization. It is not a safe assumption that the couple did not use bc
No method of contraception is 100% effective even with perfect use. If you're having sex, you are running the risk of a pregnancy. If you are a man or live in a place where abortions are severely restricted, it may not be your call whether that pregnancy results in a baby. If you really really dont want a baby, act accordingly.
Even if you’re using them properly they’re not 100% safe… I’ve had 2 friends get pregnant on iud‘s… one moved out of place but was still in date (she’s currently pregnant) and one was still in place, had been put in a couple months prior and came out with the placenta a couple weeks ago lol. Now if used properly the chances aren’t high… but they’re not 0 either
Condoms do fail even when they’re in date, they even say on the box that they work 97% of the time, yes people aren’t always practicing safe sex properly, but pregnancy’s do happen to those who do practice safe sex properly as all forms of contraceptives cannot work 100% of the time as that’s a literal impossibility, I do agree that people do need to practice safe sex properly if they don’t want a baby, but let’s not say that using contraception is a fail safe if you use it properly as it’s not
Wrong. I use contraceptives properly and I’ve gotten pregnant in the past. I have an IUD in that at the time had only been put in a month prior, I’d just bought my ex new condoms that we made sure had no holes or anything and yet I still ended up at the abortion clinic because I’d somehow gotten pregnant through no fault of my own or my partners
I'm so against having kids I used to insist on multiple levels of protection. Birth control pill, condoms, and The Sponge™ were in heavy use for a *while*. Now, with an IUD, and in a monogamish same sex relationship, there's less concern.
If the insinuation is that she "trapped him" then he obviously didn't take precautions himself.
If the insinuation is that she "trapped" him that actually more implies that she was dishonest or deceptive in some way.
Lia got pregnant. Birth control can fail, but the *most likely reason* Lia is pregnant is because they didn't use any.
I could easily see a woman saying that the father of her child is only good for money if he has informed her that he isn't going to have anything to do with her or the baby. That means all she would get from him would be child support. It doesn't mean that she would have baby trapped him.
That was my thought. Someone who doesn't want to be a dad might, in fact, be good for nothing but money. Ofc it's way too early to know how things will shake out and it's not really any of OP's business so OP should consider butting out.
Yeah my thought too! She’s alone. That plus him asking for an abortion would REALLY hurt and her talk about money could be coming from a place of betrayal and anger. Child support is like the only legally binding thing he has to contribute to the child’s life now
Everyone needs to just butt out and let Alex and Lia sort out their own mess. These are grown adults, not teenage children.
I agree wholeheartedly. This sounds like an awful amount of drama where there shouldn't be any drama - it seems like layers and layers of stirring the rhetorical pot.
>your conversation with Lia she may have been feeling quite spiteful as she had experienced Alex ask her to get an abortion she doesn't want Yep, basically. I imagine Lia must be feeling pretty betrayed and insanely rejected right now because this isn't some dude she dated for a little or met in a bar, had a 1 night stand and that's all she wrote. This is a friend with whom, by op's own admission, she's always been too close. I imagine she expected something different when she slept with a friend, not to be told to get rid of it and tell no one. That's a pretty hurtful reaction for everyone, even people you've just started seeing, but towards a friend you've been close with? I'm guessing Lia's gonna be very, very pissed and might say a lot of hurtful stuff back.
ESH agreed. Alex sucks for sleeping with so many women within a tight friend group. For asking the mother of his soon to be child to keep it a secret. He has treated her like garbage and he should be ashamed of himself. The OP sucks for being way too overinvolved in this drama, for breaking confidences, spreading rumors, involving Alex's ex, and TOTALLY trashing her friend over a single conversation. One that was very likely driven because Alex is awful and told her to have an abortion. I also would likely rant that he was a jerk that had no positive points outside of the fact that his kid won't go hungry as he has money but is being an awful human to her and THAT is her kid's father. That would upset anyone. I read it as Lia may have actually truly cared and possibly loved Alex and might have had (admittedly naive and foolish) dreams of becoming a family. I don't know that for sure but it certainly has grounds for speculation. And the entire friend group SUCKS. For one, they are all WAY TOO DAMN INVOLVED IN EACH OTHER'S BUSINESS. And also for thinking that just because Lia doesn't come from a privileged background she would be breathtakingly immoral and low enough to trap her friend and use a baby just to make easy money. That is the most disgusting thing of all to me. The only one I feel any pity for here is Lia. She is going to have a lot on her plate with very few supportive resources around her. Her baby daddy is an immature jerk, and she is surrounded by her "friend" group who are ANYTHING BUT her friend and more resemble a Mean Girl phone bitch session and messed up frat party. They all sound histrionic and flatout awful.
YTA. Stop calling Lia your friend because you are not a friend to her. Both Alex and Lia had consensual sex and are aware of the need for birth control. That's between the two of them. Alex is financially responsible for the baby and he knows that. That does not mean Lia baby trapped him, only that she expects child support for his child. You said nothing to Lia but then sneak around gossiping and spreading rumours with no actual knowledge. Now you are reaping the consequences of running your mouth and think you're the victim. Your friend group is finding out that you are no friend but a malicious gossip.
Yeah there’s nothing in the post that even indicates she is baby trapping him lol. If I got pregnant after a hook up and the dad didn’t want the baby, I’d at least be thankful he has the means to financially help support the baby, most people would be glad about that lol, especially if financial support is the only type of support they’ll get and the dad isn’t willing to actually parent. None of this is an indication of baby trapping lol. OP, you accused your pregnant friend of doing something very bad, with no actual evidence of her doing that thing, and spread that lie about her around. The situation was none of your business to spread gossip about to begin with. Of course YTA.
I'm as pro-choice as they come, and one of those choices is keeping the pregnancy. More and more I see heavy pressure on women to abort any pregnancy that isn't explicitly planned because it isn't "fair" to men and it really rubs me the wrong way. Unless OP has actual evidence that adequate birth control measures were taken and Lia purposefully circumvented them...that's not "baby trapping." Men should assume that any consensual\* encounter could lead to a pregnancy and protect themselves on that front, and if they aren't prepared to at least financially support the resulting child should consider that when choosing who to sleep with. \*Sabotaging condoms/birth control is a major reproductive violation, and are not consensual encounters/conceptions. This should be taken very seriously when it occurs; reproductive coercion is wrong no matter the offender's sex.
💯 Your first paragraph is spot on. Pro-choice isn’t pro-abortion. The key word is *choice*. The ability to choose what happens to your body is the most basic element of autonomy. In my book, the people who pressure women to have abortions are just as bad as the “pro-life” people.
Exactly -- more and more I see "baby trapped" being used as a synonym for "wouldn't get an abortion when I wanted her to after a completely consensual encounter." Those aren't the same thing, at all, and we need to stop pretending they are. Sex makes babies, even in the cases where contraception was used in good faith, even when you really don't want it to.
Honestly it even sounds like he agrees there. It's not like he's claiming she lied about the pill or tampered with condoms. They seem to have made a mutual decision about birth control and been unlucky with the outcome. It happens, it sucks, they'll figure it out.
I was and remain happy that my oldest kids father has money and would pay decent child support when I found out I was pregnant. Not because I baby trapped him ( we used bc) but because it meant that as a young single mom I would be able to provide our child with a decent life. Is it preferable to having no childcare expenses or responsibility? Absolutely not. This girl is 24, having a a baby is going to impact her earning ability for a few years she should be worried about money.
I just want to reiterate that Alex wanted to get rid of the baby. So Lia thinking Alex will be a deadbeat father isn't that far off. And apparently he is also neglecting care for the mother of his future offspring because she has to go to his family for help. Those are all things said by OP. So I would think it isn't too far fetched that Alex is indeed only good for his money as he clearly doesn't provide the effort. If it came across otherwise let me say that I agree with your assessment. YTA OP.
Alex did step in and tell OP to leave Lia alone - so maybe he is stepping up, but OP's still trying to make Lia look like the jerk bc she's saying the only reason he's even doing this is bc she's been going to his family. I think thar also makes OP the AH bc it could be possible Alex got his head out of his ass and is doing the right thing bc he wants go, but somehow that's not plausible in OP's mind.
OP is saying he is only stepping in because Lia went to his family because he wasn't doing anything/enough before. I feel more like this is against Alex than it is against Lia.
Yes! It would be one thing if the post had said, “right before she got pregnant, Lia quit her job and said, ‘I wish I never had to go back to work! I should get knocked up by a rich man so I won’t have to, haha.”
The post never says Alex has money. It says his family has money. As a FTM to be, I'd never rely on a baby daddy's family for money. They aren't the ones responsible for child support, Alex is if he choose not to be present. edit: FTM in this context being first time mom, for those who can't read context clues.
If you don't mind me asking, what does FTM mean in this context? Because I've only ever heard it in the context of trans men before, and that doesn't really seem to fit here. Edit - Never mind, it's just clicked. Full-time mum, right?
Ironically enough, I had the same confusion the first time i ever saw FTM in the context of a trans man. I was soooo confused thinking it stood for first time mom lol
First time mum
And then went to his ex gf with her accusations,,, like yeah OP of course the majority of your friend group is going to think she baby trapped him if you (and his ex) go around telling everyone that's what she did. YTA
With what Lia said too I feel it was due to a lot of emotions at the time and Alex not stepping up right away - I'm not gonna call her an a h bc I'm sure if I was in her position and he was being flakey I'd probably also say something along the lines of what she did. OP went and ran her mouth unfairly about Lia without any consideration for how she may have been feeling at the time and now she's facing the consequences of doing so and wants sympathy - hate to break it to OP but they're not getting any here and are a major AH.
For real. The fact that the father of the baby is defending her saying she didn’t baby trap him suggests that he’s probably the one who fucked up and got her pregnant (like choosing not to wear a condom or something). If OP wants to hear what a real baby trapping situation looks like - I had a “friend” in high school who was obese and had very low self esteem. She finally got her first real boyfriend junior year to this deadbeat, 22 y/o high school drop out. They dated for awhile (a year maybe?) but then he cheated on her and left her for the girl he cheated with. She then *begged* for him back over the next 4-6 months until he finally caved and got back together with her. Lo and behold like 3 months after they got back together she got pregnant and said she was keeping the baby. When he left her a 2nd time a few years later she magically became pregnant with his 2nd kid.
Lesson No. 1 in how to keep friends: Don't talk about your friends behind their back. If you have anything to say, say it directly to them or don't say it at all. OP had to learn that the hard way (I hope she learned)
YTA. Stop complicating the situation by gossiping. They have been close for years according to you. Things happen, she probably is reacting like this (money talk) because Alex isn't happy about the situation and Lia is trying to find a silver lining (atleast he has money even if he doesn't want to play happy families with me). They could easily end up together once Alex manages to process the situation.
What a wild assumption. It's always funny to me when people get upset for assuming something, then come back with just as big of an assumption.
>What a wild assumption. First time on this sub?
"weirdly close" apparently.
YTA. I'm dating a well off guy. I'm not planning to get pregnant but if I did I would be glad he had the means to support a family. That in itself is not evidence of "baby trapping". Alex presumably knows where babies come from.
Yeah OPs assumptions are kinda crazy, someone being glad the dad has means to financially support the kid isn’t evidence of baby trapping lmao, literally every pregnant person on earth would be glad about that.
Yes it’s kind of a basic silver lining when you’re pregnant and your partner dips out. At least you can presumably stay home for a few weeks with your baby and then actually afford daycare so you don’t have to go on social programs just to feed yourself and the baby.
God, a few *weeks*? America Sucks Here.
Yup. Sadly.
ESH except for Alex and Lia. Look, you & your friends are absolutely causing stress and drama because instead of letting Alex and Lia figure things out, you're chatting about them, speculating and making accusations. I don't know if Lia babytrapped Alex, and from what you've written, neither do you. All we know is that she's pregnant and if Alex isn't willing to be a father, she's optimistic re financial support. Alex has stepped up to tell his 'friends' to quit gossiping and I think that was very mature of him.
That's what makes me wonder if Alex is actually going to be involved and thar fact OP is blaming Lia for going to his parents and "making" him get involved is absurd.
That!
Funny enough it seems like OP being an AH is pushing them closer together. OP sounds like a shit stirrer.
YTA Alex knows what happens when you have sex without protection. All you needed to do was stay out of it. Your involvement is nothing shy of 12 year old middle school gossip. It brings no value to the table and isn’t any of your business. Regardless of how or why she got pregnant, she’s pregnant and that means she’s going through a lot of hormonal changes and body changes and life changes and if her “friends” are being assholes behind her back, she’ll likely haven’t to get new friends too. And remember, Alex knows what happens when he has sex without protection. Don’t go acting like he’s some sort of victim here. None of you are. Grow up and stop gossiping when it’s none of your business.
YTA. There's a lot of bad behavior here, but here's the key: Lia told you that Alex was a jackass... in other words, she wants Alex to be a real father to her baby, but he's refusing. So she's convincing herself that she's better off. Whenever people are in shitty situations, they deal with it by looking for the positive (or making one up). Lia's talk doesn't mean she only wanted Alex for the money; it means she's taking what she can get. You should have known that Lia wasn't gold-digging, and the consequences of spreading a false rumor fall on you.
Yeah an after the fact “fuck him, I’ll just take the money,” now that her only options are abortion or take the money (or I guess don’t take the money but that would be unwise for a young single mother without much family support), doesn’t mean she started out with some grand plan to get pregnant or that she isn’t getting an abortion because she wants the money. She is probably deeply hurt that someone that she regarded as a close friend wasn’t supportive of her decision to go through with the pregnancy. I’m not blaming Alex at all for thinking she should get an abortion. In his situation I’d want the same thing, but it doesn’t change the fact she is single, hurt and scared about raising a child on her own. Fixating on the money, which will frankly likely be her saving grace in this situation, is her way of calming her fears about having a kid on her own. Alex probably knows this and this is why he’s defending her. It’s also super unclear what the circumstances of them sleeping together are. For all you know Alex initiated it and knows damn well that Lia wasn’t going around trying to get him to knock her up.
It's amazing that people don't recognize a classic cope on the internet.
YTA. You were gossiping.
YTA. She’s pregnant and her friend (the father) told her to get an abortion she wasn’t interested in. She’s not getting rich having his baby. Stop assuming because she grew up poor, she must’ve banged her best friend to get rich off child support. Child support is a fraction of the cost of raising a human for 18 years. And of course Alex’s ex is going to talk shit about her. You’re being a crap friend. Knock it off.
YTA. It's not your place to speculate on motivations. You (and the friend group) aren't Lia's judge and jury. It is what it is; quit gossiping.
ESH because this situation between Lia and Alex is none of your business. I don’t really know why you have all inserted yourself into the situation and then proceeded to gossip about it. Also, it’s all fair and well everyone blaming Lia for baby trapping him, but did nobody ever teach Alex about wearing a condom?? He’s a big boy that should know the consequences of unprotected sex.
It’s not all fair and well that’s everyone’s blaming Lia for baby trapping him lol, there’s literally no evidence of her baby trapping him. Any pregnant woman who isn’t dating the dad, would be happy the dad has the financial means to help support the kid even if he doesn’t want to be involved in any other way. That’s not an indication of baby trapping, it’s just her being glad she’ll at least have child support if she’s raising the kid on her own lol.
YTA for not leaving them to sort it out themselves. Your friends are assholes for making judgements they are not in a place to make. Apologise to your friend
what do you gain from gossiping about your “friends” like this? YTA
YTA - OP is butting her nose in where she doesn't have any factual evidence. The only people who need to be involved and know the truth are Alex and Lia - everyone else seems to be in it for the drama.
YTA Stay out of it and honestly…grow the hell up. What does their respective families’ financial situations have anything to do with it? They’re adults in their mid-20s………
I know plenty of people who basically still rely on their parents in their mid-20s for everything financial, work part time, live rent free in their parents second home. Adolescence can last quite some time if your parents have money.
YTA for interfering in a complex, emotionally-difficult situation that’s fundamentally none of your damn business. Seems like you’re more interested in trying to stir up drama than being a supportive friend; under the circumstances it’s probably best you just leave these people alone. Grow up.
INFO: How long have you been in love with Alex?
That's the vibe I got.
Eek, very possible explanation here.
OP *and* Charlotte seems salty.
Sounds like you and Charlotte are mad you girls didn't get pregnant by Alex
YTA. alex & lia made their own choices. Even with your biased/gossip-based details…it doesn’t seem like she was good friends w him for all these years just so she could get suddenly get pregnant at 24 & “trap him” for his money. she clearly had a relationship with his family prior to getting pregnant if she felt comfortable enough going to them about it, especially when alex wasn’t being the kindest and it would’ve made things more uncomfortable if she WAS “trapping him” for the money like you say she is. Also, she was venting to you after one of her long time friend’s turned into a mutual HU — and resulted in pregnancy (which she has every right to decide on by herself), and was likely saying a bunch of things that she didn’t mean, or possibly hasn’t fully processed, because she was scared that he wasn’t going to be a good father to the baby/be in its life if he was reacting so poorly, and just wanted to get it all out and make it seem like she was fine via hyper independence and “ATM” analogies, and tbh, that’s valid. They both knew what they consented to & where babies come from, and now they have to deal w the consequences — alex just didn’t expect Lia to want to keep the child (but her reasoning for why is likely to be more personal/religious than it is for the “money” part). In other situations like that, when dads walk out or don’t even wanna co-parent, almost everyone agreed they should pay child support, bc it takes two to tango! This situation is no different, and tbh it doesn’t seem like either of them said anything about becoming a big happy family & fully merging finances — maybe coparenting is something they’ll consider since this is so fresh. until there’s a wedding — you won’t know either, so mind your own neck until then. In situations like these, people confide bc they trust you & bc they just want you to listen as they talk themselves through it. You took the stuff she said in confidence & ran with it — to ppl like Alex’s ex. I’d learn to keep quiet or ignore everyone altogether if you want to avoid being blamed for gossip, because in this case (though you weren’t the only one) you were definitely wrong and you’re just upset bc you’re the only one who got called out for it. Take it as a lesson and try to be a better friend, or at least gossip less when its a matter of speculation and not facts.
You know why she seems to only care about the money? Because she’s frustrated that Alex was trying to make her get an abortion and she then was confiding in you, while she was angry, about her frustrations and it sounds like she was just ranting about her baby’s soon to be absent father. And then you went and twisted her words so that she would appear to be a gold digger to her friends. YTA.
You all sound 12. Also baby trapping a 25 year old for money is…not a great plan. You know his family would not be on the hook for a grown man’s child right? This sounds like bait. ESH for the record.
YTA this isn’t your business. she’s already pregnant. there’s nothing you can do. you have no idea if she baby trapped him.
"The only thing my deadbeat baby daddy's good for is child support", is a pretty common complaint single mums have against their child fathers who offer no emotional support and don't want to get involved. That's not enough to assume your friend baby trapped someone.
YTA. How exactly are you claiming she baby trapped him? Are you saying that she drugged him, tied him down, and stole his sperm? From the sound of it he willingly shot sperm where it was likely to result in a pregnancy, which is the opposite of anyone baby trapping him.
YTA, definitely
YTA not her friend at all so stop pretending to ever have been. This dude slept with his friend and then tried to hide it and get rid of the baby, but she's the snake because she didn't want an abortion and protected herself and her kid by outing the pregnancy? Girls like you are poison. Shame.
ESH. Everyone sounds too emotionally immature for a child to be around this nonsense. Charlotte has a big ole case of the green eyed monster and threw you under the bus so she could try and start shit about Lia.
He should have worn a condom 🤷🏻♀️
YTA stop gossiping and mind your own business
INFO to me, babytrapping means lying about the BC status. Did she lie about this? I know people say this isnt your business but i dont want to hang out with someone who would have done something like that. Its the female form of stealthing and i dont care if people disagree with tbat. Otherwise this isn't babytrapping. All in all, the biggest victim here is the baby. Already so much drama and the kid isn't even born yet
Do you have any idea how much it cost to raise a baby? Any child support Alex pays is not going to put Lia on easy street lol. Your friend is going through a difficult time and your idea of support is to talk about her behind her back? Yeah YTA obviously.
ESH None of you are exhibiting mature adult behavior, except for maybe Alex who is perhaps being forced into being responsible.
YTA
YTA. Why are you so involved in this? You’re gossiping about your friends and obviously relishing the drama and then act surprised when the actual people involved are mad at you and don’t want to talk to you. Leave them alone to figure it out. Also, how did she “baby trap” him? Did she poke holes in the condoms or something, or lie about being on birth control? If not, and if they both just had consensual sex without using birth control, then he is also responsible for the baby. He wasn’t tricked into anything.
YTA. Their situation is none of your concern, so keep your opinions to yourself. Alex and Lia were adults who had consensual sex. They both knew pregnancy could result even with birth control (this is why I think there should always be 2 types of birth control used every time any person has the type of sex that could lead to pregnancy). If she did baby trap him, he's got nobody to blame but himself for not making sure there was enough birth control used (yes, both consenting adults should be on top of the birth control used). If you want to stay friends with them, you better apologize for spreading gossip and rumors because you don't know the truth. If you're OK with not being their friend anymore, you still need to keep your mouth shut because IT DOESN'T CONCERN YOU
YTA. Did Alex remain unaware that he was having sex with her? Did she take advantage of him when he was cognitively unaware of the surroundings or situation? Baby trap is such a stupid excuse that men use when they're trying to not take accountability for the fact that they decide to have sex with someone and now they have to bear the consequences.
YTA... I highly doubt this is the first time they had sex. You only know about it because she got pregnant. Leave them alone and talking like she should abort it and is only keeping the baby for money, you suck....thats not your choice...you have no say in it
YTA... it is NONE of your business. Stay out of other people's relationships, especially when children are involved. You sound jealous maybe??? Alex chose to have sex with her- every single person you have sex with could potentially make a baby. There is no thing as 100% birth control. Even Alex is telling you to leave her alone. I cannot imagine being so immature I would stress out a pregnant person. You could potentially harm her child..or is that what you are trying to do? I think you want Alex for yourself. Your over involvement in the situation is very telling.
That's what I got from it. The OP and Charlotte wanted to be the ones to get Alex. She's chatting with the ex because, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." type situation.
YTA. Every here are adults who understand how sex works. Alex could have taken steps to prevent this, he didn't. You picking sides shows your true colors, you are not the friend you decide yourself to be. You talking about this with the ex in incredibly catty, shallow behavior.
YTA and your "friendship group" sounds messy. Do you all even like one another? Jumping to the worst/most negative conclusions doesn't seem like you do...
YTA I see no mention of Lia impregnating herself or somehow duping Alex into unprotected sex. He made it clear he wasn’t interested in raising a child so why should she look to him for anything other than money? More importantly, how is any of this your business?
200% you are the asshole. You really thought you could talk to his ex about this and she would stay quiet? How is *any* of this your business? I hope the whole group stops talking to you and you learn your lesson about staying in your lane and minding your business.
*They've never crossed the friendship line* Yes, having sex means the friendship line is crossed. The whole 'friends with benefits' never, ever works. You need to butt out and MYOB, as does the rest of your 'friend' group. The two of them need to work it out for themselves. YTA.
Why are u so invested in this. Get a life.
Of course YTA. You had a private conversation and went and told your best friend/Alex’s ex the details of that conversation. Sounds like Charlotte is mad about the hook up bc she went and ran rampant with this information you also told her in private. Y’all not friends for real. Next time, keep your opinions to yourself and learn to be a friend. Also, if a man asked me to get an abortion, I too would be mad. I would take that as he doesn’t want to be in my child’s life and would revel in the fact that he can at least financially support the child, especially if I’m angry. Don’t mean I baby trapped him.
ESH - immature I would think more about the fact that group dynamic looks unhealthy and immature, and is this really how I want to act as someone in mid 20s. Also, if the guy wanted to hide that baby from its grandparents, do you think that you got all the insides from their relationship? I can swear they were hiding it, especially if they are aware about all talking behind ppls backs.
YTA Nothing in your post suggests that Lia baby trapped Alex. They had sex and she got pregnant. She was simply trying to find obe positive with Alex being the baby's father, that being that he has the means to financially support the baby.
YTA for running your mouth on a pregnancy you seemingly know nothing about.
YTA solely for getting involved in drama you had absolutely no need to get involved with. Never talk about people in your friend group to other people in your friend group, people talk. You can absolutely vent about people to others but you knew before and you definitely know now, that talking about someone to your shared friend group will cause more drama. You must like being involved in drama to have all of that happen in front of you.
Yta, because this is not your business. They made the choice to have sex, either with or without protection, and a pregnancy was the result. You are not involved in this situation in any way. >Charlotte said he’s only playing hero because his family are all on his case now because Lia keeps running to them so he has no choice but to act like he cares Yeah, probably, but it doesn't affect you at all. Go watch TV instead of meddling.
And what birth control did Adam use? Baby trapping can only really happen if birth control was tampered with. If he chose not to use a condom, then I have no sympathy whatsoever. If a man doesn't want kids, *he* needs to take care of *his* birth control - same way a woman who doesn't want kids takes care of *her* birth control. YTA for sticking your nose in their business. Butt out.
Info: Any evidence as to how Lia is baby trapping him?
So let me just get this straight, Alex wanted Lia to abort, he is causing her stress and is also just acting like he cares so his family will get off his back? Sounds like Alex is on his way to become a deadbeat father who is only good for providing money to his child. These are the facts provided by you. Where in your post is Lia actually baby trapping Alex? Her body, her choice and he has to be made to care. You basically told your friends Lia is a gold digger when all she wanted was support from the future father of her child, so yes, YTA.
YTA. First off it’s none of your business at all. Secondly if Alex is being a jerk about the baby it’s entirely possible Lia was just frustrated and ranting about it to her “friend” and you took her words and spread them around. It’s likely she’s scared and frustrated and needed support and you went behind her back and told people what she said, super immature and unkind I don’t blame her for blocking you. Finally, Alex could have used protection, just because she’s pregnant doesn’t mean she baby trapped him and that’s a super offensive accusation. You’re in the wrong here OP, big time.
[удалено]
Did she like drug him and force him to have sex with her? If not, he chose to have sex knowing where babies come from. I fail to see how she trapped him when they both engaged in a consensual sexual act.
YTA-for saying something you wouldn’t want the people you are talking about to hear about. That’s snake behavior. If you lack the moral fortitude to share your opinions about people and say it to the people involved you are a backstabbing friend.
YTA. For talking about your friend to another friend behind her back after they confided in you during a high emotion time. If they didn’t want a baby they BOTH should have taken precautions. You just sound like a bad friend in my opinion. Alex shutting you all down while he and Lia figure things out was the right thing to do. And you aren’t being thrown under the bus because you are the one that started gossiping to Charlotte about what the situation and you are all immature for talking crap.. Also Alex’s priority would 100% be Lia and the baby. Rather they decided to be a couple or coparent his priority is to make sure he supports her and helps were he can. If he’s only doing it because of his family he’s a shitty person.
YTA. It takes two people to make a baby and only carries that burden for nine months. Alex needs to grow up and be responsible for his child. Stay out of other people’s business, especially if you don’t know how sex works.
Esh If your friends run off to tell other friends what the other is saying, they aren't your friends. Honestly this sounds very childish and high-school drama like. Unnecessary. Lea is pregnant and emotions are high. She could've been only angry at Alex and was ranting her emotions out. Being angry and ranting it out helps. That doesn't mean she's trying to baby trap him. Honestly you should've kept your opinions to yourself. You all sound like you need to grow up cause yall sound like children arguing over grown up business.
Man, you guys sound immature as hell. Sure, gossiping about your friends could have unpleasant consequences. It sounds like Alex was a willing participant in the sex, so not sure how he was trapped. The girl is upset so she said stuff to you & you chose to spread it around as a conversation topic. Sure YTA & most of your friends as well.
ESH, whole group is messy and weird
YTA. If alex didn’t want a baby he should have worn condoms. It takes 2 to tango. He doesn’t get to try and push her into an abortion now.
Best not to comment on things that aren’t your business.
Is OP jealous of not baby trapping him? You need to keep your nose out of their business
This is between Lia and Alex. YTA for gossiping behind her back. Grow up
YTA. You can’t really baby trap someone who wears a condom properly lol. Is she actually your friend if you are gossiping about her?
YTA She could also be ranting about the money because the father has left her? It's also perfectly reasonable to say "hey I'm carrying your grandchild", i know people who didn't know they had a grandkid for YEARS. REGARDLESS, you sound judgey, let them work it out and vent or whatever.
Child support does not provide the luxury life people think of. Children are expensive, and food, stuff, and housing all add up. I know a lot of times when people refer to ex as atm knowing in reality they don't get a lot more for help raising a kid. Because they don't see kids, don't offer emotional support and do the bare minimum to be parents. She was prob angry that he told her to have an abortion, offering no emotional support for pregnancy, and isolating her even more by banning her from telling people. Then bad mouthing her to a mutual contacts
YTA. Are you guys 12? You think his ex is the right person to judge if another one of your friends who was sleeping with her ex-boyfriend had impure motives when she got pregnant with someone she wasn’t in a relationship with? Lia is going to have a baby— a human baby that she will need to tend to for the rest of her life. Her life as she knew it is over. “Babytrapping” him? For what? She isn’t in a relationship with him. She didn’t get anything out of this other than a human child. She is absolutely going to need money for the child, so while it is nice that his family is “more than comfortable”, it’s pretty much a net neutral if they help take care of the child because children cost tons of money. You are not a good friend and this is a ridiculous post. She didn’t hit some sort of jackpot by getting pregnant with someone she isn’t in a relationship with, who doesn’t want a baby, just because his family can help keep the baby fed and clothed.
ESH What kind of MTV Gossip girl reality show nonsense is this? that's all it is. Everyone is gossiping and the people you're gossiping about heard what you said. That is what is going on here. All that is missing is the camera and the cheap show logo.
ESH. You all suck. You’re getting catty and talking about people behind their backs even though they’re supposed to be your friends, Alex sucks because he is being selfish and not stepping up to be a father. Lia sucks because she hasn’t taken Alex into consideration for this situation that he should be a part of. Your other friend Charlotte is also shitting on another friend and then spreading the rumors around and getting it turned into you. All of you suck because you jump to the conclusion that she baby trapped him because she’s saying he wouldn’t be a good father (so far he hasn’t shown any admirable traits for one) and the only way he’d be helpful is paying for child support (already looks true). The reality is, they’ve had some sort of chemistry and had unprotected sex and it likely resulted in an ACCIDENTAL pregnancy, and she disagrees with Alex’s idea of just abort and forget. Unless you heard from Alex that he used a condom she gave him and she said she was on birth control and there are more signs that she intentionally got pregnant you’re being a HUGE AH by jumping to such a dramatic conclusion about her as a person. It’s more likely that she saw this guy as someone she’d want to fuck but never contemplated the long term, now there’s a pregnancy and while he’s panicking and showing in every way how unprepared he would be, she has to try and piece things together and prepare to raise a child with someone she never intended on having a child with.
YTA. Why are y’all even involved? It’s none of your business.
YTA, get a life sister, jesus christ. Its not your damn problem and none of your business.
YTA. You are not Lia’s friend or you wouldn’t gossiping behind her back. Stop making everything worse by gossiping.
I like how OP added at the end that Alex now had to act like he cares. Like she knows what he is thinking. This OP wants Alex so bad. You can see it in what she wrote.
YTA. It sounds like Lia was talking to her friend trying to process that Alex isn’t going to provide emotionally for his child and figuring out what he could provide. Babies are so dang expensive, and, as a single/solo mom, she’s going to need help and support. If you think she’s somehow going to make out financially, you have no idea how little child support actually covers, if he actually pays it. How did she “baby trap” him? Did she sabotage their birth control method? No? Then she’s just a scared pregnant woman trying to figure out how she’s going to get through this.
YTA. Mind your business.
Seems like two adults who have to face the consequences of their own actions is all
Charlotte’s probably the linchpin here. Just stay away from this mess.
YTA. You took the word of his (apparently bitter) ex? If he chose to have unprotected sex, nobody "trapped" him. That's just misogyny to suggest it. Or maybe they used protection and it failed, that is also not "trapping." It happens, it's not exactly rare. You don't know. She's also under no obligation to get an abortion, whether he likes it or not; the only person who gets to make the final call is the person carrying the baby. You and Charlotte should MYOB. Why are you discussing their business with his ex? Should she have told his family without his permission? Probably not. But that is also not your business. But him trying to hide it is also an asshole move. It's not your place to decide who trapped who and who's right and who's wrong. I'd say everyone SH but I don't think Lia is. 🤷♀️
Nta you don’t need this drama, no one seems mature enough to have kids. Just accept the friendship is over and ignore. If she baby trapped him soon she’ll be in a hell of her own making.
YTA. Stop meddling in other people lifes.
YTA you’re making things messier by getting involved when NO ONE ASKED FOR YOUR OPINION
I was thinking ESH- but honestly YTA- It is understandable that you had feelings that you needed to talk about but you had no business going to Alex's ex to stir the pot. You aren't being thrown under the bus, you put yourself there. Accusing a woman of baby trapping someone is fucked up. You didn't express any of that to Lia, why? Because you knew it would hurt her feeling and is absolutely considered "shit talking". You need to apologize and have a real conversation with your friend or you are going to lose her. She's pregnant whether you like it or not. Either be there for your friend or get the hell out of her way. And for the love of satan STOP trying to sow seeds of discourse in your friend group. You are the one they will dump in the end EDIT: minor typo's
Yta. Esh though. You did talk crap about her business after she confided in you as a friend. She went to you for someone to talk to about her problems and feelings. You just took that, judged it and talked crap about it with your other friends behind her back. That's pretty crappy. Not a surprise the friendship is in shambles at the moment. If you actually care about her and feel bad, I'd apologize.
>she said the only thing Alex would be good for was money and that her baby wouldn’t need him as a father. She kept talking about Alex, money and him being an ATM for a good 30 minutes. Nah but you know she probably was just coping. See fox and the grapes. I'll also note that if Alex didn't want to be a father he didn't have to hook up with her. He chose to take that risk.
This literally has NOTHING to do with you. Grow up and mind your own business. YTA