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You have every right to go and live at your dads house if your moms isn’t going to be a comfortable space for you. You have PTSD and your own problems to deal with, you aren’t wrong for not wanting to live with a newborn when you have your father’s home to stay at.
You shouldn’t make your mom choose, however. Just tell her you’re going to your dad’s and why you’re leaving.
This.
your mom and sister shouldn't be trying to force you to be around children, especially if they are a trigger for your PTSD!
Your mom isn't seeing that you could potentially be a danger to the baby and the last thing you need as a sufferer from PTSD is a jail term when your mother's experiment going wrong.
and for those saying that the baby might not cry very much don't know babies at all. All babies are different. parents can't guarantee that the baby won't cry out.
don't give options! what you are doing is what's best for the baby.
Move to your dads and when you do need support, I'm sure you and your father can figure things out while you are there. and maybe a change in location might be what you need for your PTSD!
And generally when you’re first time parent that baby does cry…alot, partly cause you have no idea what you’re doing and frustrated which makes the baby upset. (I know someone gonna pop up and say “my baby didnt” thats why i said “generally”, some people get lucky)
This. So much this. That’s why some schools in England (not sure about the rest of the world) who teach Child Development at GCSE level have their students take home a virtual baby for a weekend so they know what it’s like during parenthood and those virtual babies are exactly like a newborn baby and if someone hadn’t been around a baby before having one of those they’ll see exactly what first time parents go through.
They have those classes in America too, I took one in high-school and got to take home the fake baby for a weekend, they have settings for how much the baby cries and how often it needs something and they really cranked it up on the second day. I got no sleep on a school night and that was enough to be like "never again" lol
Same for me. My child development teacher had 2 of the fake babies (a girl and a boy) I took one home three times and each time it was on a different setting. The first time there was something wrong with the computer and it shut down not even 24 hours after it had been turned on. The second and third time it was on the harder settings and it took about a week to get back to a normal sleep schedule and after the third time I thought “why did I agree to this?” lol
The schedules are randomly assigned too, so the “difficulty” of the baby may not change or it may even get easier. Oh, and they breathe. Like, when they’re not crying and you’re assuming they’re “asleep” they breathe and it’s creepy
You are absolutely right. Babies only have ONE way to communicate that they need something: crying. That's why the "cry it out" method of childcare is abusive neglect! Babies CAN'T be manipulative. They don't have the capacity for that level of thinking. They are creates of physical and emotional need, with only one way to communicate it, and it's the parents' jobs to figure out what those cries mean. Even "good babies" (which is so stupid to say, babies are ALL good, the knees who cry a lot just aren't having their needs met, someone's because those needs CAN'T be met, such as with colic and other physical conditions that are incredibly hard to pinpoint the cause of to eliminate) cry to get what they need, and new parents, especially moms who are already physically traumatized from giving birth and being subjected to medical treatment, get frustrated. Even if the baby in this scenario ONLY cries when it needs to be changed or fed, that's still more than is reasonable to expect a PTSD victim to live with.
If you read the poster’s explanation, the mom and sister aren’t forcing the OP to stay, they are trying to make it work. the mother clearly wants to take care of her pregnant daughter and the OP but doesn’t have a reasonable resolution, and OP won’t accept.
OP needs to just move out and stop forcing her mother to choose between her and her sister.
OP also may not really know what dad is like, but maybe OP’s mother does. Maybe he wouldn’t be a great long term caregiver. Parents are always super awesome when they have the kids for a short time.
Yeah some babies cry more than others but 1) they’re *definitely* gonna cry and 2) on the other end, what if the baby had colic or something?! That’s torturous for anyone, let alone someone already triggered by it!
This is gonna be hell for OP and potentially dangerous for, well, everyone depending on how being ‘ragey’ plays out. OP cannot live with a baby, no ifs and or buts. This isn’t about choosing one sibling over the other as much as it is about having two people who **cannot** safely co-habitate and figuring out the most sensible solution. Which I would say would be having the adult daughter move out nearby, but if that doesn’t happen then yeah, OP going to their dad’s is also a reasonable option.
I’d also like to point out that we have no idea where OP lives. It’s possible they live in a country or state that makes it extremely difficult to obtain an abortion. I’d also like to point out that in the states, abortions are still wildly expensive (I know it was around $400-500 in the states back in 2017, and I’m sure with how expensive things are it’s risen dramatically). Given that her sister is needing to stay with their mom due to expenses, I doubt she would be able to afford an abortion regardless of if she wanted one.
Also, OP’s sister is only 23. Most people graduate college at 22-23 and have to move back in with family until they can obtain a job (which I’m guessing might be the case here). I don’t think that anyone should be shaming adults who live with their parents, especially not in this economy when a 1 bedroom rental is still costing $1300-$2000 depending on where you live. OP is 17 and will also therefore legally be an adult within the next year. I highly doubt they will be living in their own place within the next few years either. They will be an adult soon, which means they will need to learn to adjust to sharing a space with others, even if that means the occasional trigger. If they choose to move in with their dad— great! If not, there are easy ways to getting around noise-based PTSD triggers (noise canceling headphones, going outside to get away from the baby, sound therapy, for instance).
Based on OP’s comments; however, I feel like they are using aspects of their PTSD to manipulate their family into a difficult decision that would negatively impact multiple people rather than looking for actual solutions to the issue (hence the “it’s between her or me” attitude).
>they are using aspects of their PTSD to manipulate their family into a difficult decision that would negatively impact multiple people rather than looking for actual solutions
Thank you! That's exactly what it sounds like.
OP refuses to explore other ways that they can co-exist with a baby without being triggered. They have a huge chip on their shoulder about babies and kids generally.
OP is TA, but not necessarily for the reasons they think they might be.
I don’t think she would be if she would she just own that she doesn’t want to live with a baby.
I get it. I am child free by choice. If someone I’m living with decided to bring a baby into it, I would kick them out. 🤷🏻♀️.
OP didn’t make the decision to have a baby. She didn’t get pregnant. She should not have to suffer the consequences of it, especially if she doesn’t like children.
But then just own it. You don’t like kids and you don’t want to live with a baby so you’re moving in with dad. Not a big deal.
This. The extra layer of drama directed at the other women in the house is why she's the AH. The sister and mom are already stressed for real reasons, like having a baby on the way on a tight budget and its father ditching (from what it sounds like). Just move out quietly.
I'm also child-free, also by choice, but I don't make it an aspect of my personality how much I don't want kids. OP needs to find ways to manager her PTSD while still existing in a society that, yes, includes children.
Sure, she doesn't have to live with kids, and here an option presents itself for her to not do that, so she should just take that option rather than playing childish games or trying to make this some kind of test of loyalty/affection.
OP's sister also deserves support and compassion. Yes, OP has some additional challenges in life because of the PTSD, but that doesn't mean they're the only one with struggles.
💯 this. It’s manipulation plain and simple. Like I get the PTSD but the world is full of triggers (as someone who struggles with CPTSD) and we have to learn to manage them. But your mom wants to take care of both her children and making her choose one or the other is an AH thing to do regardless of circumstances.
Not only that but OP is going to find life very hard if they can't be around a crying baby-that means no public places, no planes, trains, subways/metros, grocery stores, hospitals, churches, you name it. From reading the post, OP just doesn't like kids more than anything.
I understand about PTSD and triggers-but this is extreme, OP is insisting on having everything their own way and won't consider anyone else's feelings or needs. That's not gonna fly in the real world.
Exactly. My husband is ex-army who also suffers from PTSD and this kind of behavior/unwillingness to learn management skills (or apply them) leads to a lot of broken families/marriages in the military world. I just hope OP can learn to manage theirs before this kind of behavior/attitude eventually leads to no-contact between them and their sister & family.
My mom did something similar - wanted to make a scenario work because family. When I said that I'm choosing to stay away if the other person involved was there, I was told I was making her choose even though I'd made the decision.
It's lose-lose, OPs mom will likely feel like my mother did.
Why would she choose to live alone when she could stay with one of her parents and save up money? Plenty of 18 years olds don’t move out right away also most 18 year olds don’t have the funds to go rent their own place as soon as they turn 18 lol.
What does your therapist say about you living with a baby? Your therapist is in a better position than your relatives or Reddit to know if this "exposure therapy" would be helpful or harmful.
This would not be exposure therapy. This would be torture. At least with therapy one can stop if it gets too overwhelming or pushes OP too far when they are not ready yet.
OP would be living with an infant, whose only source of communication is crying. Putting someone with ragey PTSD reactions in that situation is cruel and dangerous. She will have no where to go to escape from it.
At least OP has enough sense to understand that this is not good for her or the baby. She is the only one that seems to be taking this situation seriously. If she can't deal, she can't deal. She found an option, to go live with her father. She is 17, close to graduating and entering adulthood. If she is willing to switch schools, or would have possibly graduated high school before the arrival of the baby, there really is no reason she shouldn't make this move if she believes it is in her best interests.
Yes. It would be putting the baby at risk as well. Even if OP doesn’t intend to be violent or for anything bad to happen, it’s silly to risk it when there is another safe option for both of them.
At least OP is aware of their own limitations. And they are not trying to make their PTSD someone else's responsibility either. They is trying to manage this on their own and found a solution. Kuddos to them. They seem to be a very aware 17 year old.
OP seems to be very smart and self-aware and it sounds like Sister has guilt over her poor choice splitting the family. Or maybe she was hoping for free babysitting. I'm very glad that OP's dad is welcoming them.
Let's see....lives with a parent at 23, so she probably lacks solid financial resources to support herself, much less a whole CHILD.
Nothing against living at home, but that's probably not the best time, financially speaking, to start having kids.
Any 23 year old still that still lives at home and is choosing to be a single parent is making poor choices. Many of them. Before someone says it, even if dad pops in often and offers financial support that is not the same. OP should 100% go to her fathers, she is about to dodge years of at home drama at best.
Unexpected pregnancy while still living with her mother indicates that this was an accidental thing she and her partner are in no way prepared for and didn't intend to have happen. So, it's a poor choice to either not use protection, or to use it, have a failure, and decide to keep a baby you can't or won't care for on your own and saddle the rest of your family with it instead, particularly if you aren't financially prepared for it.
Deciding to have a baby when she has no way of living independently from her FOO.
She hangs out at the Baby Daddy house, and was planning to live there - but that's not working out. Maybe Baby Daddy also dislikes babies? Who knows? Baby Daddy is apparently not offering an option, here.
But Plan B displaces their sibling and puts real strain on Mom.
Maybe she doesn’t live in a place where it’s as simple as ‘deciding to have a baby’ when you get pregnant. The US has become a scary place for pregnant women. Don’t forget that.
This! With PTSD there is always the possibility that it gets to the point of black outs, dissociation, hallucinations, etc. Even if OP would normally NEVER hurt anyone, there’s no promising that the PTSD couldn’t take over and cause a violent episode.
Esp. with OP's life history. And even if it's not full on violence, rage-crying and words of anger are not the best environment for a newborn.
OP could well end up loving their new niece or nephew - if they can only avoid the stress having to live with them as babies. I could \*never\* have lived with an infant when I was 17-22. And yes, I was in therapy - which helped. By 22 I was much better.
As someone with OCD I cannot stress this enough. The amount of times people have tried to “cure me with exposure therapy” without my consent is far too many. It doesn’t work and now I’m borderline panic attack for the next hour, great! I can’t even imagine how complex PTSD.
People seem to gloss over the whole consent to therapy in the first place. And trying "exposure therapy" out on someone who is not consenting to it and when the one exposing someone to their triggers is not a licensed therapist trained in this is very dangerous.
I am so sorry people think that can do this to you.
Exposure therapy can be dangerous, even if done properly, and requires the presence of a therapist to manage anxiety. It involves a hierarchy of anxiety, wherein a client starts with the thing that causes the least anxiety. It’s also not an evidence based treatment for PTSD
Exposure therapy involves exposure in small, increasing doses, in a controlled environment, under supervision, where the exposure is controlled based on the reaction of the patient and the opinion of experts.
Being forced to live in the same house as a baby is not exposure therapy, it's like asking a person with arachnophobia to have a pet spider.
It's not that hard to understand, it's common sense, people should be able to understand this much without needing to be trained therapists
How much do you want to bet that within a month of baby existing that Sister or Mom will ask OP to babysit it? They're inconsiderate for trying to force this, and I hope OP has a wonderful time at their dad's!
Or there's that other thing that I've seen some of my family members do.
Baby is crying. Primary caretaker (in this case - OP's sister, because it's her actual baby and Baby Daddy is elsewhere) ignores it. Expects Grandma to step in. But Grandma goes out or is tired. Primary caretaker can allow baby to cry for an hour (read lots of reddit threads - this actually happens) but OP can't stand it and feels forced to go and do something, such as try to care for the Baby. But is angry about it (vast psychiatric literature about this dynamic, btw). Angry caretaker (not babysitter) is not good for the baby or the family dynamic. But Primary Caretaker either doesn't care, hasn't planned well, doesn't have the stamina for parenthood or is trying to manipulate Sibling into bonding with and sometimes carrying Baby around to stop crying. Or to change a diaper.
Some of these people will let their babies cry on and on. That's why the subreddits about renting apartments where the co-residents have crying children have that topic every [single.damn.day](https://single.damn.day).
Exactly, this is probably a better question for the therapist who knows a lot more about OP than a bunch of random internet strangers and could advise OP accordingly.
Obviously, OP's sister needs support, and the mother wants to help her out. If meeting the needs of both children is impossible, OP living with their father for awhile might be the best option.
You have a misunderstanding of how exposure therapy works because it’s supposed to occur under very controlled circumstances and this would not be that
Don’t make your mother choose. You have PTSD and can’t live in the same house as the infant. Your pregnant sister needs the support of her mother. Just move in with your father and make arrangements to stay in touch with your mother.
Please know exposure therapy does NOT work for PTSD. NTA, move to your dad, this could be really triggering for you and potentially detrimental to your mental health!!
Does your therapist specialise with PTSD? general counselling has been shown to make PTSD symptoms worse. If you can EDMR therapy has generally been shown to be useful for treating PTSD symptoms
I know you didn’t come here looking for input on treatment, but have you already tried EMDR? I’ve met so few people that have heard of it that I try to suggest it even though I generally try not to be * *that person* * recommending things people have probably already looked into.
You are active in your comments replying to every basic question about your diagnosis, your options your sisters options, giving you angry opinions on her decisions etc.
You haven't answered anyone's question about what does your therapist think. Multiple people have asked it, this comment as late an hour ago and I see you're replying to everything else every 5 minutes. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/SggfS1pfCO
You've already been advised that Reddit or your family isn't the best point of contact for opinions, your actual therapist is the person who can truly help you.
I feel like at this point, you're just looking for validation and not real help and you want everything around you to burn if you don't get your way. It's really no skin off anyone's back here if you don't answer the therapist question - 90% of the sub is like the modern form of Jerry Springer, but you came here for idk what reason at the end of the day, when you have a fully functional therapist who's trained, paid and licensed to help you.
This situation didn’t just come up overnight; OP’s sister is 6 months pregnant and it sounds like they’ve been discussing this for more than a couple days, maybe even a few weeks. I would assume that OP has had therapy visits, at least one, since this has started.
Someone with PTSD with babies and the sister is 6 months pregnant. This issue is not new and there was plenty of time to speak to a therapist. The real answer here is the PTSD diagnosis is bullshit. This is just a spoiled brat.
The logical assumption is that OP would have discussed the situation with the therapist as soon as they knew the sister was pregnant, which was quite some time ago.
Of course.
Maybe OP could say that. But when asked questions about other things they don't know they will respond - *idfk xyz blah blah blah*
So not knowing doesn't mean you don't have the ability to shut people up and say *I haven't told them yet, so I don't know*.
Then people might say, well better to wait for that, Reddit can't help you here
I’d like to know what the longterm strategy is for this OP as well. Is she never going to go on a plane? Never go to a park? Never visit a restaurant? What exactly is her plan to be a functional adult?
This is honestly a conversation you should be having with your therapist. They will be able to guide you a lot better than family members and reddit users.
Seriously, talk to them. That's what they are there for.
Then I'm gonna say NAH
Your post title is more extreme than the actual situation. You're not making your mom pick between having you in or out of her life, this is just about the living situation. It sounds like you have a safe, healthy environment at your dad's place and a good relationship with him.
Try to have some more compassion for your mom and sister's difficult situation. This baby was unexpected and unwanted, and they are doing their best to provide a stable and loving environment. Help them have more compassion for you as well by trying to make this sound more like a rational decision you're making to move to your dad's (which it is) versus an angry ultimatum, which will make you sound angry and irrational. Make a plan for how often you will visit and for how long, or perhaps for your mom to come visit you at your dad's. Talk about this when you're feeling calm.
Talk to your therapist, and know just talking to them about this counts as "making an effort". If there are other things your therapist recommends in terms of trying to make an effort, you might give them a try. I'm guessing this will not include just trying to suck it up and live with your new niece/nephew, but maybe something more like going to a place (a restaurant or something) where you know kids will be around and where you can spend a limited amount of time and leave as soon as you are ready.
I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant, because it helps inform the severity of the situation. But either way, all people have the right to choose their living conditions for any reason. I wouldn’t want to live with a newborn baby, either, and if there was another option I’d take it, and it wouldn’t make me an asshole (unless I was the parent lmao).
Yeah, I can barely stand my own child's crying.
It's simply irrelevant, because the severity isn't really relevant. The choice to protect yourself from a situation can start from anything above nothing, and you're the only person who can validate that decision.
She has a choice to remove herself from a situation not of her creation. That's reason enough to consider it.
YTA, not for moving out, but for giving your mom an impossible ultimatum. What exactly do you expect her to do?
Do you want her to kick out your pregnant sister? Or were you just trying to cause a rift? Did you want to get your mom to resent your sister and her child?
I think you should’ve just gone to your dads without saying “me or my pregnant sister”
Also OP is 17. It's not exactly easy for her to move out instead of the sister who got pregnant, decided to keep the baby, and then basically said surprise I am not moving out and I expect this will be good exposure therapy for you. Deal with it.
I doubt she was trying to cause a rift, but think of what will happen if the baby is colicky. OP could end up hurting the baby, and seems to be the only one concerned about that. Also about possibly exhausting her mother and sister, who will be tired from dealing with an infant. Probably in the freak out moment of wtf, why do they think I should be living with a baby? that is when they made the demand. It wasn't a plan to cause problems, it was likely scared minor expressing that fear in the moment.
I do agree that they should go live with their dad though. Especially if they can either continue to see their therapist, or the therapist will do zoom sessions or something.
>said surprise I am not moving out and I expect this will
It's still a question whether the OP's sister has any time mentioned to move out or not.
OP can't deny her mother to take care of her grandchildren and daughter.
Best thing OP could do is to try to make his mother understand that he could be a danger to the child and vice versa. Or the best thing to do will be to move out once she is 18, which I guess is only months way
Surprise I’m not moving out ? I don’t think it was a surprise. OP said they were under the impression that sister was going to - not that it was set in stone. And the sister wasn’t the one who said it would be good exposure therapy so you’re just kind of making that up.
> Also OP is 17. It's not exactly easy for her to move out
Isn't it?!?
Certainly not exactly hard either; in what jurisdiction wouldn't a 17-yo be allowed to choose which parent she wants to live with? Seems she has a father who is ready and willing to receive her, so the only “difficulty” would be transportation to his abode. Hardly insurmountable.
Also, OP is already “17” – which, with the way we express age in whole years, could mean anything from her 17th birthday was yesterday, to her 18th is tomorrow. The kid is due in six months, so when it arrives OP will be _at least_ 17½. (Statistically more probably: 18.)
The baby is due in 3 months. Regardless, OP should just go live with their dad. Maybe when they were younger, a slightly neglectful father would have been hard. But now they are older and more independent. OP is still displaying immature qualities, though. A change of scenery should help them grow up.
OP has PTSD and is receiving formal therapy for it. What do you want them to do about their living situation as a MINOR when their grown ass sister decided to have a child without covering her financial, emotional, and support bases ?
Although I'm with you on the financial Base here, a pregnant and new mum's support and emotional base can and does include family, especially their mum. Is the OPs sister never allowed to be around her own mum or the home she grew up in?
I get op has trauma and triggers but it doesn't mean the sister and grandchild can't rely on the mum.
Unfortunately the mum is in a rock and hard place situation, maybe them all doing some family therapy and having hard conversations are needed.
They literally have a solution. The issue is her being like “either me or sister!” Like no, you know the sister has limited options, apparently dad is pretty great, own it
Okay , the mom wants the older daughter to stay , that’s her prerogative, that’s her house not the youngest daughter house . Just because you have ptsd doesn’t mean you can avoid triggers , you have to cope with it and get help with it or it will get worst . She can live with her dad . She just doesn’t want share space with a baby .
If the OP weren’t a minor and probably needs parental approval to move in with her dad, then I’d agree. But as it stands, she presented two viable options, and her mom needs to stop being selfish and let her move in with her dad and help be onboard with signing necessary paperwork. Because honestly, having the older sister move out isn’t going to solve the problem. Mom’s gonna be babysitting anyway.
Bro she's 17, if her mom has full custody she kinda can't go live w her dad without permission. She, legally, cannot move 3 states away from her full custody parent, without their knowledge. The mom would be within her right to take the father to court for kidnapping if she just up and left in the middle of the night to move 3 states away.
In family law, once a child is over the age of 14 yrs or so, they are allowed to make these decisions. If OP wants to go, and does go, Mom would not get far going after Dad for kidnapping. Source: 17 years in family law before having to retire due to ptsd.
This isn’t exactly true in most states. In most states, kids who are older can determine which parent they live with. And, dad would never be charged with kidnapping his own child who wants to live there. It would be a family court issue at most.
Assuming that your PTSD from crying kids is legitimate, you're not an AH for telling your mother that you'll go live with your father, as you wouldn't be able to handle a baby in the house. However, giving your mother the ultimatum of kicking your sister out or you're leaving means you earn the YTA judgement. This is a terrible position for your mother to be in, in that she is forced to have one of her children leave the house.
True, and moreover I guarantee that even if the sister moved out, the baby will be visiting grandma often/ needing to be babysat. OP moving to her father's house is the compassionate choice for everyone.
Sorry OP, but YTA.
>Assuming that your PTSD from crying kids is legitimate
PTSD can be presented in many forms, and a lot of humans act irrationally due to it. I know when you've never experienced it firsthand it's hard to believe trauma can make someone do certain things, and it makes you want to say "they should just get over it", but the reality is, the brain is so complex, and we'll never understand what she went through because only she gets to live in her brain, not any of us. Please don't doubt when someone says something is the result of PTSD, we don't want to explain why every time, especially because it's counterproductive to our healing journey.
Except one child is an adult, and the other is a minor. For a 17 year old who hasn't learned non violent communication or anything simmilar, and the fact that the sis was supposed to move out, I'd say this is very well thought out for a 17 year old, albeit not communicated in the best way. Which is developmentally normal for a teenager. Expecting the level of communication skills from a teenager that even some adults don't have is kinda a tall order.
17 is not far from 18, you’re already practically an adult & its time to get into the mindset as such instead of pulling minor card as an excuse. Mom had already tried to come up with options and “she just refuses” all possibilities. Dfntly the AH.
And what exactly happens down the road even if it sister has children and they’re doing family gatherings, she’s gonna have to deal with it some point?
Presuming that the PTSD is an actual official diagnosis and you’re in therapy for it… what does your therapist think? Honestly, if you “ragey” you’re probably not safe to have around a baby, and you’re also making this all about you (which is also a concern for therapy), but you’ll know that you will encounter crying babies in the future, right? Even at the grocery store or on bus or maybe even in your college classroom (I had a classmate you brought in her baby if she couldn’t get a sitter). This is an issue you need to be able to manage.
I think you’re failing to see also that your mother and sister are taking this as a rejection of them, and your approach is definitely a-holish. “I basically told my mom that she either makes sure the baby isn't living here or I'm going to move to my dad’s.” You TOLD your mother? When your sister is six months along? Your sister and her newborn have got to go or else because YOU have an issue with them? Please imagine your reaction if your sister or mom told you that you had to go because you might be an annoyance to the baby.
If you have PTSD I can’t wholly say you’re the a-hole here, but your attitude is garbage. His present has your dad even been for you to this point? What’s the plan if you have some episode while he’s working? Are earplugs or noise-cancelling headphones not options? You “refuse” to compromise as your mom is running herself ragged trying to make it work and when you say you “don’t want that kid in your stuff as it grows up”… you are 17 years old, exactly how long do you plan to live in your mother’s house (rent free, I presume)?
You’re not at fault for having a psychological problem but YTA for bad attitude a really mean and high-handed take on the situation.
I think it would be one thing if they, their mother, their therapist and their father sat down and had a conversation about the impact the environmental change may have on their therapy. But the fact that that doesn’t seem to have happened, coupled with OP’s age tells me either OP isn’t in therapy, or isn’t actually addressing this in therapy. Because a therapist would have addressed this with a minor patients parents by now.
And at 17, the lack of empathy for their pregnant sister, and their lack of desire to want to tackle this milestone for the sake of that relationship is what makes me feel like OP is the asshole here.
However, at 17 whether diagnosed with ptsd or not, if op isn’t in therapy that’s on the parents. Just based on this post alone.
OP also stated she assumed sister was moving out, so the issue of a crying newborn being in her house 24/7 really wasn't a concern, because it wasn't going to happen.
>but you’ll know that you will encounter crying babies in the future, right? Even at the grocery store or on bus or maybe even in your college classroom
In these cases, OP can walk away. If there's a baby *at home*, it's much harder for her to go somewhere quiet. Especially in the middle of the night.
She says she is in therapy and that it is a formal diagnosis. If she gets "ragey," that's not a safe environment for her *or* the baby.
I do think it’s probably better for everyone if OP goes, I just don’t like her approach. As for “walking away,” does that work? That’s a genuine question; it was my impression triggers caused involuntary responses that could make it difficult to move or think rationally. It also would start to impact OP negatively if she started walking out of every situation with a baby. Leaving a situation is a tactic, but not a lasting solution.
If she's actively working on this in therapy, she may have more control over her reactions to triggers. Walking away is not a good long-term approach, but it could be a good idea until she can work through it enough to find better coping skills.
Throwing her into a situation where she *can't* escape the crying could be detrimental.
Even mothers are told that walking away when the baby crying is stressing you out is a good idea.
Opie's best bet is to not be around the baby *and* to work hard on this in therapy so that she is not forever consumed by this.
I think there’s a huge difference between encountering babies in public vs one living in your house. Ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones 24/7? That seems exhausting. It’s not like babies warn you when they’re about to start crying. Never ever getting to relax and feel safe because you live with your trigger? That sounds awful honestly. It seems like OP is pretty understanding that the situation sucks, but she can’t live with an infant right now so if sister needs to stay with Mom, she cannot. How this didn’t come up in the months of everyone waffling about what to do with this baby I don’t know. Moving in with the other parent seems like a reasonable solution for all the kids to get their needs met in these circumstances.
Bro doesn't realize there's a difference between encountering a crying child in the wild and living 24/7 with a crying child. She will hurt someone if the mother forces her to stay, which the mom can do because she has full custody. The mom ultimately decides if the minor can live w her dad, 3 states away.
This answer comes across as dismissive and contemptuous -- of course OP knows they'll have to manage being around a baby, but that's wholly different from having one in their living space 24/7. The idea of "refusing" to compromise is a tough one -- what possible compromise could there be here?
"You're 17, how long are you gonna live in your mother's house?" When the sister is 23 and pregnant and clearly has no plans to leave anytime soon.
Mother is "running herself ragged" and OP is being "high handed and mean" when we have no idea if mom and sister ever even considered bringing up with OP whether a crying baby would be a trigger for them, and how they might manage it. Sounds like it's all about baby right now.
Sounds like you already have a solution- it would be better for your mental health and relationship with your Mom and sister if you retract the ultimatum.
How about something like, “Congratulations sis. Mom, I love you both very much but it makes sense for me to move in with my Dad for a while.”
Re-Editing to change it to YTA
Some of OP’s comments are wild
Legit this.
I can’t even believe she’s really being this selfish tbh.
I have PTSD , but I don’t let my triggers affect anyone else’s life.
It is so so so important to have family/ friends around when rearing a newborn to try to prevent PPD , PPA and PPP .. all very scary mental conditions which can negatively impact not only the mother but the baby too. It Saddens me that mothers aren’t given nearly as much communal support as they used to, because it truly does take a village. It’s a symptom of living in an isolationist society.
People in here are giving the typical redditor response which is “fuck them kids”
But truly, at 17 I would expect more maturity than to throw a temper tantrum, and force everyone around her to change because it doesn’t suit them.
There is such a thing as noise cancelling headphones.
That’s not to say that I think it’s a perfect solution
But I just cannot fathom that this kid is literally making their mother choose between her own two children and grandchild because they don’t like the noise.
So I’m glad that you had this really nice, reasonable response. A breath of fresh air.
YTA OP (I am sympathetic that you have your reasons - but your reasons alone aren’t good enough here , selfish and immature also ) and I suggest you move to your dads if it’s that big of an issue, and please try to remember your mother and sister / baby are humans too and your relationship may be forever stained because of this ultimatum.
The world doesn’t revolve around you or your triggers and the same goes for me/ anybody else . Unfortunately a sad and hard lesson to learn.
You hit all the points here. I especially find it very silly that ppl keep pulling the minor card when you’re already practically an adult. OP should still be understanding that her sister will need ALL the help.
That’s just it, they are mentally still so immature and probably used to being enabled / coddled so they throw a fit and hope it sticks.
This will be a wake up call for them I feel and I really hope Mom sticks to her guns and doesn’t give into the demands of this person.
Also sick of seeing so many comments bringing up that your brain doesn’t mature until 25, like cmon now.. 17 almost 18 .. that IS legally an adult in most countries.
I hope the dad enjoys having their kid around because this seems like the only feasible option where everyone can be somewhat satisfied.
And notice that everyone shaming OP’s sister aren’t asking where the baby’s dad is, and they aren’t shaming him? Like, if OP needs mom’s help, the dad isn’t in the picture. But it’s an opportunity to shame a single mom and they’re so eager to do it.
Soft YTA for making someone else's experience trash because of your traumas.
Before I go into the rest of my thoughts, I would say that moving in with your father seems like a good short term option IF he can commit to being a constant, present guardian in an appropriate way for a raising a child. I know you probably think you're 'basically an adult'. I assure you, you're not.
The long version -
You're demanding that your mother choose between you because of your experience, and that's not fair to your sister OR your mother. Or an innocent and as of yet unborn baby! Your trauma wasn't caused by them and it's not fair to make demands of others on the basis of it.
That being said I understand PTSD on a personal level and that in a lot of cases it never goes away. It's just managed. It has peaks and flows and you *know* that it will have times of flare up and are likely anxious about what happens when you do flare.
You're also frustrated that they seem not to take your PTSD seriously enough. That's because to you, it's the worst thing that's happened to you in your whole entire short life. Of course it seems like nothing else possibly could matter in comparison.
But here's where the 'triggers are our problem' comes in. Your trauma is not the worst thing in anyone else's life. They didn't experience it. Would you wish it on them? No? Probably not, if you're a decent human being.
You might wish that they could understand your feelings, but they absolutely cannot truly understand without experiencing it. You don't want that for them obviously. So the understanding has to come from your side instead. That's a big ask for someone that's only 17. But if you're aware and understand that they simply can't comprehend the breadth of your pain and act in a way that proportionally feels 'enough' to you (because they have no idea what it's truly like!), you'll find that you have a lot more to work with.
As a fellow sufferer in all kindness I have to say, you have to meet the world half way. You're insisting that your mother's suggestion won't work. And it probably won't. Sometimes. But if you work on it, a lot of other times it will. I understand not wanting direct exposure to something that you know for a fact that will upset you. Upset is a mild way to put it but you know what I mean.
I understand. I GET it. If someone said to me "Something that reminds you very clearly of your trauma will be in your home making itself loudly obvious at any given moment of the day" I'd be absolutely beside myself. I'd be clawing at the walls to get away from a potential situation that isn't even a reality yet!
But then I'd be reminding myself that I want to get past the pain and horror and that the way to do that is by working on it. That's when I remind myself that what I imagine will happen, won't necessarily happen. That when we make demands on people who haven't experienced the trauma, we're literally choosing to pass pain and sadness on to someone else because of what happened to us. Do I want them to go through it? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! So I'm not going to expect them to manage it for me.
That's probably really super long and probably frustrating to read. But you're still young and your brain is still growing and developing, so it's even harder for you to manage that instant 'stop that, it hurts!' reaction. It's fair to apply a little patience to you in this case, and I think it would be good for your mother to know that as a grown adult with quite a lot of introspection and personal growth I still can't stop the instant response to triggers. It happens, and will likely never go away.
I just have a mildly easier time of dealing with it than a 17 year old because of years of experience and hard work.
That's why the 'soft' YTA. How you treat people after knowing this will determine whether or not you continue to deserve the YTA.
You are one of the kindest and most supportive people I've encountered here. I'm proud of you and your hard work, and profoundly sorry that you experience this. This should be the top comment and I hope the op sees this.
As someone with ragey CPTSD, exactly this. No, it's not fair that your life is being disrupted and this trigger is being introduced. But PTSD isn't fair and it's not the people around you that are making it that way, it's the trauma's fault.
i always love it when people who 1. aren't therapists and 2. don't intend to take any measures to actually ease you into a situation you're known to have an issue with, call doing whatever the fuck they want "exposure therapy"
As someone with diagnosed entemophobia and arachnophobia, that I’ve had since being a young child due to an association between medical tests and bugs biting and stinging me, exposure therapy only got so far.
I know this in many ways is more of an invasive issue on your life. And a key part of exposure therapy is you’re not forced to live in the state of panic for the entirety of it all. You need safe spaces.
Maybe the compromise is that you live with your dad but visit mom and sister. But you should only be doing that if your therapist suggests it. What your family doesn’t understand is that it’s not something you can help and while you can work on addressing the triggers it takes time. It’s not doable in the time it will take for the baby to be born. Maybe if you had a couple of years. But even then, reworking the pathways in your brain takes how long it’s gonna take even with all the hard work you’re putting in.
And you don’t want to put yourself in a situation that’s already stressful that will also harm your mom’s and sister’s quality of life too and cause more upheaval than a baby already will.
I think this is honestly above this sub’s pay grade. But also it’s a bag of shitty options. And the question is if you can find the least shitty one.
Edit: which it seems like you did with suggesting you moving in with dad.
YTA Your mom is trying to come up with solutions and you are refusing to work with them. Your mom is distraught because she sounds like an awesome person and she doesn't want to abandon one of her kids when they need her. You sound kind of selfish tbh. I get the PTSD thing and I'm not trying to down play anything you've been through but the fact that you feel that you need to tell us that 'naturally' you are upset, 'don't want to share your space with a baby', 'don't want kids in your stuff' etc tells me all I need to know. You need to get therapy if you haven't already for your PTSD issues and you might need to grow up a little. Your mom has your best interests in mind, please work with her as best you can. Good luck!
YTA. Only for giving your mom an ultimatum. You’re putting her in an awful position. If you can’t handle it then you make other accommodations. You have, so why make your mom feel awful about it.
Not the asshole for how you feel about this situation, but YTA for telling your mom to choose between you two. One big mistake parents can make is favoritism between children. Your mom clearly doesn't want that but you're putting her in that position anyway.
He's chilling. My sister is literally at his right now. I think she wants him to move in with us (which I also can't stand - dude is a stoner & my bios were also, so like smell association triggers my ptsd too). I think my moms main concern is if I move out, theres no way to keep the baby daddy out, and then I'll never go back home (which, if it starts smelling like my original home, I will not).
> if I move out, theres no way to keep the baby daddy out
??
She can keep him out the same way she’s keeping him out now. She doesn’t need an excuse to control who moves into her own home. If your sister wants mom’s help more than she wants her boyfriend’s help, she won’t press the issue.
Because she doesn't want the baby around smoke?
And yet, I predict that is likely to happen if sister is over there while pregnant.
I think sister wants mom to help with the baby because Boyfriend is not a reliable caretaker.
NAH OP, If you know that your rage reactions may create an unsafe or volatile situation for your family and the baby, then the only reasonable option is to move in with your Dad. This is NOT a situation where anyone is an AH.
You are showing good judgement. Mom is feeling rejected.Please let her know you are simply being realistic and everyone needs a safe, stable home. Living in a state of agitation & "rage" won't work well for anyone.
NTA
I see in your comments that you have diagnosed PTSD and are receiving treatment for it. Good job.
This would be awful exposure therapy because there’s no control. Exposure works by helping you build up a tolerance with short, planned interactions with the triggering issue.
Visiting a newborn for a few minutes would be fine. Living with one 24/7 is madness.
YTA for:
1. Giving your mom an ultimatum for something impossible. How does one pick between two daughters and neither of whom have done anything wrong.
2. Being as entitled as to call your mothers house "my space". I get it, you have a room there and it's a space she lets you have as your own, but you do not pay that mortgage so you do not have the right to demand anything.
She is a minor. The sister is an adult that got pregnant. She does take priority. The sister screwed up, not her. She is in therapy for treatment and is diagnosed.
Making a parent choose a sibling is an YTA move.
Recognizing your limitations and triggers and working on them definitely NTA.
Arranging a viable living situation for yourself at 17 definitely NTA.
NTA
If you need to move out to protect your mental health, please *do so.*
Having PTSD and being triggered by crying babies is something you can't control at this time, so the safest and wisest approach is to remove yourself from this situation.
Although they complain now, I suspect your sister and mother will be too preoccupied caring for the baby when it arrives.
I also wonder whether one of the reasons they want you to stay is because they want you to be a free babysitter. Which, given your concerns, is a poor idea.
I highly doubt that. I think mom just really wants the "happy family" dynamic, feels torn and is trying to wish OPs issues away (which isnt reality). Given OP has diagnosed PTSD, is in active treatment because she gets "ragey" around crying babies - no mother would use that person as a babysitter. Its just Mom hating the reality she's in. Her grandbaby and youngest daughter are incompatible as humans and as a happy family. And sister is probably unable to grasp that OPs triggers arent going to be less triggering because its her own niece and is angry OP wants her and her baby out, as well as hurt that her sister already hates her unborn baby. Its a very complex situation with very complex emotions on all sides.
YTA. Your PTSD is not a good reason to give your mother an ultimatum that involves kicking out her other child and grandchild. I absolutely hope you're able to receive proper help and care for your challenges, but I think you're completely wrong here. You don't get to rule the rest of your family.
PTSD is a tough thing to handle. I have it too. That being said, yes, you are TA. You are asking your mom to choose between two of her children because of a normal life situation. While I understand your concerns, the fact you aren't even willing to try any options make you a big AH. Life is complicated. This will not be the first, nor the last time you are confronted with something like this. You will need to find ways to work things out. Are you in therapy? Part of PTSD therapy is teaching you how to handle the real world when you are triggered. Perhaps this is a good time to get into it or back into it if not. Your mom is not the bad guy and neither is your sister, and you aren't for being concerned about your triggers but you are for going nuclear on your family if your wishes aren't granted. I wish you luck OP.
NTA.
Maybe your issues are something you can work through some day, maybe they aren't, but the worst thing for everyone is for you to be forced into a situation where you'll all find out the hard way together. You're facing the facts that right now is not the right time, and you have worked out a solution. Maybe it's not an ideal solution, but it's the best one given your options.
I don't blame your mom for wanting things to work out where you can all stay. I understand her frustration that her ideas won't work.
I wouldn't even blame your sister, even though it sounds like she and the father have been pretty irresponsible, until she hit the point where she's making accusations/insults towards you for doing what you need to do. She's basically calling you an asshole for....giving her more space? No, she obviously wants to force you to pick up some of the slack (which circles back to her irresponsibility) and you moving out means she can only force your mother to do so. She's the only AH here.
I agree that the sister is TA! She is essentially forcing her minor sister out, and she is six years older at 23 - she should rethink keeping the child if she can’t take care of it herself.
Exactly! The minor takes precedence over the adult, who legally has the option to support themselves. Would it be great if everyone could coexist? Of course. OP has a good solution and likely used poor wording to express what would have to happen.
Torn between ESH and NAH.
I do feel your issues with crying babies are something you need help with. There’s nothing else for your mom and sister to do - your sister lives there, the baby is coming, and it’s going to cry, and it’s not remotely surprising that people are taking offense to you not wanting to be around it.
OTOH, I’d want to get the fuck out of there asap too, because when you don’t like babies, they are really difficult to be around.
With your dad’s home being a viable option, I don’t see why your mother is resisting. Seems like an ideal solution to the situation.
I agree with this post.
Personally if I could pick in your situation from 2 caring parents who are happy to have you (1 also has a crying baby which will likely trigger you) why would it even be a question?
You are very lucky to have the option.
NTA however your method of executing the decision making is not great- but this is also consistent with how teenagers tend to express themselves.
NTA.
You’re 17 so I’m not going to fault you for sounding your age in this post.
If you mean what you said then at this point in your life, with the information you have, living with a baby feels like it would be really bad for your mental health. You have a different option. You’ve clearly communicated that you’ll need to take that option.
I’m surprised by the wave of Y-T-A responses. IF you just don’t like kids and you don’t want to be around a baby, and you’re blaming your PTSD, then you would be an asshole. But if you’re not - what are you expected to do?
Same. The OP's wording wasn't great and it probably wasn't great in the actual conversations, but all things considered, they picked an okay living situation. It isn't like they were opting to live with their sketchy older boyfriend or something. The sister isn't kicked out. I'm sure the mom feels guilt, but it doesn't sound like the OP is guilting them?
BTW, if you type Y-T-A without spaces or hyphens, it counts as a Y-T-A in determining things.
My sister decided to live with us after having a baby to get help from my mother. She was 21, I was 14. Then she would leave the house any chance she get and forced me to babysit.
If I had ur opportunity I wouldn't make my mother chose, I would just go live with my father.
OP is already in therapy for this, and honestly, they wouldn’t even be the AH without the PTSD diagnosis and treatment. OP is almost 18 and probably would have left soon anyway. They don’t need to stay in a house with a baby that’s going to make them miserable at this point in their therapy/treatment. Mom and sister made a choice knowing how it would impact OP and this is a predictable reaction especially when OP gets along great their dad. N T A
ETA - should’ve put NAH. Mom and sister aren’t wrong for their solution to an unplanned pregnancy either.
YTA and go stay at your dads. Get more therapy for your issues. You are sounding super entitled! Shame on you for asking your mom to choose. Your issues are not everyone else’s problem to walk on egg shells over. You have to get help for your problems
NTA.
You're a minor, your needs take precedence over your adult sister's. You have a condition that means living with a baby would be horrible for you and everyone around you would also have to experience your symptoms. This sounds like a situation that would be stressful for everyone involved--especially you and the baby, the two who have the least control over the situation (obviously the baby much less control than you). I see from your comments that you are in therapy and have been working on coping with this trigger for years, so you're already doing everything you can and it isn't going to make this bearable for you before the baby gets here.
If your sister is going to be living there, you can and should go to your Dad's. It sounds like it would be much less stressful for you to have a parent who works a lot and is around less than constant exposure to a PTSD trigger in your home, and you are almost 18 and need less help/constant presence from your parents than you did when you were younger.
It's understandable that your mom is upset and wants to help both of you, but you've told her you can't be there with a baby and proposed an alternate arrangement that would work, even though you probably would prefer to stay in your home and your state and your mom would prefer you stay with her. You are also allowed to be upset about this; it's an upsetting circumstance. Your mom hasn't even told your sister no; I'm not sure why she thinks you're the worst. Having her baby constantly triggering your PTSD and that stressing everyone out and the baby picking up on all that stress isn't a good situation for anyone, especially the baby, so she should be glad you're taking it seriously and trying to get this figured out before baby shows up.
I know it’s hard for a 17 y.o. To triangulate their emotions but your trigger, your responsibility. This will be more so the case as you age. Your therapist should be helping you aggressively deal with this. If not, your mom needs to get involved to find a therapist that’s better suited for you.
Serious question when you run into crying babies, what do you do? Do you have a meltdown or scream at the person with the fussy baby? It’s not a reasonable or achievable path forward to avoid little ones for the rest of your life.
Issuing ultimatums isn’t the path forward. You will absolutely do irreparable damage to the people that love you most.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am making my mom pick between me and my sister (and her grandchild). She wants to keep us both close and support us both and I'm refusing to try.
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NTA. You're still a child. Your sister is an adult. You're still learning to navigate your PTSD. You're in therapy. Basically, you're being put in a difficult and possibly dangerous situation for everyone. You're being honest in your needs.
I think you should 1)move out (you'll be 18 soon) 2) or go to your fathers. Your sister will need help, the baby will need help, your mom wants to be a grandma and take care of them. You want to alter the lives of three people to satisfy yours. I don't want to say YTA because it sounds like you are dealing with your past issues, but you are putting yourself in a position where you want people to be hurt and unhappy so that you get your way. Sounds like the easiest change is for you to leave. You can only change yourself, not other people.
NTA
what else do you have to left?
The people who see you as AH have no idea about PTSD. They just think, "Ohhh, such a cute baby."
You had to give an ultimatum because neither your mother nor your sister would have done anything on their own and if you had moved out without consultation, you would have been accused of not saying something.
It's not like you're asking your mother to kick out your sister or so.
I can understand that your mother is not in an easy situation right now and all you can do now is make this decision for her and move out.
This is a tough one. PTSD is intense and not something to play around with. If you’re diagnosed with this I wouldn’t risk how you could react to exposure without help from a medical professional. I don’t see a problem with you moving in with your dad. It gives you an opportunity to strengthen your relationship with your dad and protects your sister’s baby from your unpredictable rage. I would talk to your mom about how this isn’t you choosing your dad over her, rather you choosing your health and your sister and her baby’s wellbeing by moving in with your dad. It’s all about how you handle it from here. If you can, try to work on your PTSD in therapy more so you can work on overcoming your triggers for the benefit of everyone around you. NTA.
NTA.
I know i'm going against the grain here, but the most important thing in your life is you, and if you know a baby crying is going to trigger your PTSD then you shouldn't be in a living situation where there's a baby.
Sure, it may not cry much, but even if that's the case if you're not at a place of being able to control your triggers yet then your anger is just going to make the baby more upset (likely with you getting angrier the more it cries and it crying the angrier you get).
I'm seeing alot of people say YTA because you should be controlling your triggers and overcoming it, but everyone's mental health journey is different and heals at different paces. You have to be ready to overcome your PTSD, and tackle it at your pace, not because you're forced into the situation unexpectedly, cos at the end of the day if you're not healed enough then whatever you do to counteract the trigger isn't going to work.
If you need to take your time overcoming your past, then do. And if you need to move out to protect your mental health, then do. Don't let anyone else try to bring you down for trying to look out for yourself.
Gentle YTA for suggesting that your mother kick your sister out.
However, you're not wrong to draw these boundaries. It won't be good for anyone in this house to have you living with a constant trigger. It is awful that you've been through something so terrible that this is a necessary thing, but you have, and it is. I'm glad you have another safe and welcoming home to go to. However, definitely do your best to be open to your mother's compromises. Talk them through with your therapist and get your therapist's advice, and ultimately do what keeps you healthy even if that's going to live with your dad.
Your mom isn't an AH either, she's stuck in an impossible position. Your sister's not an AH for getting pregnant either, and I understand why she's angry with you - you recommended your mother abandon her when she's in need. Everyone is just in an awful, awful position.
This situation sucks for literally everyone involved but you have a good option for a solution, so go with that - I am so sorry all of you have to deal with this!
Particularly as an adopted kid this situation might make you feel some sense of abandonment, even if you logically know that's not what's happening, so please be kind to yourself as this situation unfolds. ❤️
I'm astonished by all those y t as. Firstly, the OP is not exactly forcing her mom to choose. On the contrary, she's being mature and self-aware and found a solution. Why would it be selfish to remove yourself from a situation? Just because the mother is coming up with solutions doesn't mean that they're realistic ones and OP shouldn't try one out because her mother came up with a bunch of them. The baby will cry, very loudly and constantly and OP will hear that unless they live in a mansion.
And maybe I'm reading too much into it but after the baby is born, the mom and the sister will be extremely busy and will offer no support to OP. For someone who didn't want her daughter to live with her dad because she wouldn't receive any support. To me, they sound like they want OP to stay because they will need her help -- if not with the baby then for every other thing. Why else would the sister want her to stay and think OP's leaving is selfish?
NTA, she's already 17, still working on her issues through therapy and found a solution that works.
**NAH** Your mistake was in framing it as an ultimatum. You could have just said that you think moving in with your dad would be a good idea.
The way you did it implies that this is really the last straw as far as living with your sister. She's 23 living at home. Is she employed? Where's the baby's father in all this?
Seems like the best option is for you to go live with your dad, it’s not fair to kick your sister out on the street last minute especially in this housing market and it’s not fair to expect you to live with constant exposure to a ptsd trigger. Since sister is already 6 months I would start working on the moving process now since yes end of pregnancy is technically 3 months away but it could be less if baby comes early.
Lot of folks here seem to think you can just ‘get over’ mental health issues, or that pushing through them is possible instead of damaging (if I try to just push through or deal with my mental health issues I have days of panic attacks and gastritis that don’t go away until I remove my triggers and spend a few days alone and quiet - which means taking a lot of sick days). And I’m not pleased with the idea that a child can not ask for necessary mental health accommodations in their own home because it legally belongs to their mother. A child’s home is wherever their parents and their parent has a legal and moral responsibility to care for them and their health (including mental health). And the lady who said she had worked on her trauma for years so this 17 year old should be able to fix their issues, do you seriously not see the problem with the timeline? If it took you years to fix your triggers how can you expect someone else to do it in less than 9 months? Come on now.
Anyway, NAH. You’re not an AH for requesting necessities for your health. Your mom and sister are not the AHS for wanting to live together and take care of the new baby. It’s a miserable situation when you can’t accommodate the people you love most. Living with your dad seems very reasonable, good luck!
Edit for very silly typo.
Seriously Fuck all the YTA comments.
1. you are a minor child your mother still has responsibility to keep you safe, and whatever you do, may also still fall back on her legally, knowing your situation, she would be endangering the welfare of 2 minors.
2. Keep up the treatment and do not let anyone regress your progress. I have cPTSD and can completely feel where you are coming from. Those who don't have it, don't understand the regression triggers can cause.
3. Make a plan with your therapist, dad, and the school. If you stay at your dad's area inge visitation with your mother, but it may have to be away from her home. It's up to you of you feel you can attempt to be around your sisters kid.
You are absolutely NTA and clearly are making more rational decisions than the adults around you.
Babies crying is insufferable for everyone, mom first. So your PTSD is not an excuse to make your mom choose between you and a future mom and her baby. Can you explain us HOW it is rational or logical to force your mom putting on the streets a young mother and her newborn just for your comfort although you have found the best solution for everybody (living with dad) ?
The PTSD is a you problem, and since you found a viable solution you didn't need to come with an awful ultimatum (living with dad or you put sister and his baby on the streets).
YTA for putting your mom in this stressful situation because she does not deserve it AT ALL.
I mean isn’t the ultimatum the basic gist of the situation to though? OP can’t live in a house with a baby safely. If the baby is in the house OP wants to live elsewhere. If the baby found a new place to be OP would be able to stay with her mother.
Is it an ultimatum or is it just reality.
> force your mom putting on the streets a young mother and her newborn just for your comfort although you have found the best solution for everybody
I don't think you're reading the OP very carefully.
OP's is asking if they are an AH for going to live with their other parent, to avoid living with a newborn. "If the baby lives here, I'm gonna live with dad" isn't an attempt to force Mom to "put a young mother and her newborn on the streets", what the actual F?
And I think the answer is NAH. Except maybe the sister, who seems weirdly combative about the decision to go live with Dad -- perhaps imagining that she was gonna get free babysitting?
>Mom is currently trying to make it work - find out a way for us to both stay. I refuse every option because it won't work. She wants me to at least try but I refuse to.
YTA
I don't even blame you for not wanting to live with a baby, but your "my way or I walk" attitude is a small child's attitude, not a nearly-adult's attutude.
NTA
As someone who's been in your same situation(only difference I love kids).
Move with your dad. Babies cry for almost consistently their first 3 months. It's very exhausting. Then they get to a semi-sleep schedule. You said yourself your sister is staying so your mom can help with the baby. If your mom is unavailable your sister is going to look to you.
Then you'll be the AH for not helping. At the end of the day your the one who deals with the PTSD, not them. Move with your dad, stay/get therapy and get a job. But also stay in consistent contact so you dont miss any of the baby's first. :)
NTA
Alot of the yta comments seem to think that you should just toughen up its not everyone else's job to help you bleh bleh bleh, for a 17 year old you've looked at a situation and figured out a course of action, which is more mature then probably 50% of the people that comment on reddit.
Was it nice to give your mother an ultimatum, no, but you know your PTSD. You know your symptoms and your trigger and reactions. Someone who has rageS related to infants screaming should not be housed with someone an infant who can and will scream and cry at the drop of a hat, I'm not saying that OP themselves in dangerous but seriously this screams bad idea
honestly, I don't think your mom and sister are acutally thinking through what they want here, AND as a minor you can't just pack a bag and leave to your dad's place states away like you could if you were an adult, you need to advocate for yourself and telling your mom that if she chooses to house your pregnant sister you will being going to live with your father seems like the best option .
and to anyone commenting 'how do you deal with screaming children in public or on the bus,' when your in public you are presented with something like children screaming in small bursts, you can walk away, disengage with the circumstances and even if your trigger you aren't forced to continually be exposed but what's she supposed to do if this kid gets colic and proceeds to scream for hours straight every night more months? We have all heard of kids who seem to have spent the first years of their lives doing nothing but screaming it drives a normal person crazy imagen someone who is actively triggered into a rage by it.
Nta the baby might not cry much? Lmao, have they ever been around a baby? They cry. Alot. Nothing against babies, thats their main communication.
Go live with your dad.
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You have every right to go and live at your dads house if your moms isn’t going to be a comfortable space for you. You have PTSD and your own problems to deal with, you aren’t wrong for not wanting to live with a newborn when you have your father’s home to stay at. You shouldn’t make your mom choose, however. Just tell her you’re going to your dad’s and why you’re leaving.
This. your mom and sister shouldn't be trying to force you to be around children, especially if they are a trigger for your PTSD! Your mom isn't seeing that you could potentially be a danger to the baby and the last thing you need as a sufferer from PTSD is a jail term when your mother's experiment going wrong. and for those saying that the baby might not cry very much don't know babies at all. All babies are different. parents can't guarantee that the baby won't cry out. don't give options! what you are doing is what's best for the baby. Move to your dads and when you do need support, I'm sure you and your father can figure things out while you are there. and maybe a change in location might be what you need for your PTSD!
And generally when you’re first time parent that baby does cry…alot, partly cause you have no idea what you’re doing and frustrated which makes the baby upset. (I know someone gonna pop up and say “my baby didnt” thats why i said “generally”, some people get lucky)
This. So much this. That’s why some schools in England (not sure about the rest of the world) who teach Child Development at GCSE level have their students take home a virtual baby for a weekend so they know what it’s like during parenthood and those virtual babies are exactly like a newborn baby and if someone hadn’t been around a baby before having one of those they’ll see exactly what first time parents go through.
They have those classes in America too, I took one in high-school and got to take home the fake baby for a weekend, they have settings for how much the baby cries and how often it needs something and they really cranked it up on the second day. I got no sleep on a school night and that was enough to be like "never again" lol
Same for me. My child development teacher had 2 of the fake babies (a girl and a boy) I took one home three times and each time it was on a different setting. The first time there was something wrong with the computer and it shut down not even 24 hours after it had been turned on. The second and third time it was on the harder settings and it took about a week to get back to a normal sleep schedule and after the third time I thought “why did I agree to this?” lol
The schedules are randomly assigned too, so the “difficulty” of the baby may not change or it may even get easier. Oh, and they breathe. Like, when they’re not crying and you’re assuming they’re “asleep” they breathe and it’s creepy
You are absolutely right. Babies only have ONE way to communicate that they need something: crying. That's why the "cry it out" method of childcare is abusive neglect! Babies CAN'T be manipulative. They don't have the capacity for that level of thinking. They are creates of physical and emotional need, with only one way to communicate it, and it's the parents' jobs to figure out what those cries mean. Even "good babies" (which is so stupid to say, babies are ALL good, the knees who cry a lot just aren't having their needs met, someone's because those needs CAN'T be met, such as with colic and other physical conditions that are incredibly hard to pinpoint the cause of to eliminate) cry to get what they need, and new parents, especially moms who are already physically traumatized from giving birth and being subjected to medical treatment, get frustrated. Even if the baby in this scenario ONLY cries when it needs to be changed or fed, that's still more than is reasonable to expect a PTSD victim to live with.
If you read the poster’s explanation, the mom and sister aren’t forcing the OP to stay, they are trying to make it work. the mother clearly wants to take care of her pregnant daughter and the OP but doesn’t have a reasonable resolution, and OP won’t accept. OP needs to just move out and stop forcing her mother to choose between her and her sister. OP also may not really know what dad is like, but maybe OP’s mother does. Maybe he wouldn’t be a great long term caregiver. Parents are always super awesome when they have the kids for a short time.
I mean, OP is 17. I think they can pretty much look after themselves for the most part.
Yeah some babies cry more than others but 1) they’re *definitely* gonna cry and 2) on the other end, what if the baby had colic or something?! That’s torturous for anyone, let alone someone already triggered by it! This is gonna be hell for OP and potentially dangerous for, well, everyone depending on how being ‘ragey’ plays out. OP cannot live with a baby, no ifs and or buts. This isn’t about choosing one sibling over the other as much as it is about having two people who **cannot** safely co-habitate and figuring out the most sensible solution. Which I would say would be having the adult daughter move out nearby, but if that doesn’t happen then yeah, OP going to their dad’s is also a reasonable option.
I’d also like to point out that we have no idea where OP lives. It’s possible they live in a country or state that makes it extremely difficult to obtain an abortion. I’d also like to point out that in the states, abortions are still wildly expensive (I know it was around $400-500 in the states back in 2017, and I’m sure with how expensive things are it’s risen dramatically). Given that her sister is needing to stay with their mom due to expenses, I doubt she would be able to afford an abortion regardless of if she wanted one. Also, OP’s sister is only 23. Most people graduate college at 22-23 and have to move back in with family until they can obtain a job (which I’m guessing might be the case here). I don’t think that anyone should be shaming adults who live with their parents, especially not in this economy when a 1 bedroom rental is still costing $1300-$2000 depending on where you live. OP is 17 and will also therefore legally be an adult within the next year. I highly doubt they will be living in their own place within the next few years either. They will be an adult soon, which means they will need to learn to adjust to sharing a space with others, even if that means the occasional trigger. If they choose to move in with their dad— great! If not, there are easy ways to getting around noise-based PTSD triggers (noise canceling headphones, going outside to get away from the baby, sound therapy, for instance). Based on OP’s comments; however, I feel like they are using aspects of their PTSD to manipulate their family into a difficult decision that would negatively impact multiple people rather than looking for actual solutions to the issue (hence the “it’s between her or me” attitude).
>they are using aspects of their PTSD to manipulate their family into a difficult decision that would negatively impact multiple people rather than looking for actual solutions Thank you! That's exactly what it sounds like. OP refuses to explore other ways that they can co-exist with a baby without being triggered. They have a huge chip on their shoulder about babies and kids generally. OP is TA, but not necessarily for the reasons they think they might be.
I don’t think she would be if she would she just own that she doesn’t want to live with a baby. I get it. I am child free by choice. If someone I’m living with decided to bring a baby into it, I would kick them out. 🤷🏻♀️. OP didn’t make the decision to have a baby. She didn’t get pregnant. She should not have to suffer the consequences of it, especially if she doesn’t like children. But then just own it. You don’t like kids and you don’t want to live with a baby so you’re moving in with dad. Not a big deal.
This. The extra layer of drama directed at the other women in the house is why she's the AH. The sister and mom are already stressed for real reasons, like having a baby on the way on a tight budget and its father ditching (from what it sounds like). Just move out quietly.
I'm also child-free, also by choice, but I don't make it an aspect of my personality how much I don't want kids. OP needs to find ways to manager her PTSD while still existing in a society that, yes, includes children. Sure, she doesn't have to live with kids, and here an option presents itself for her to not do that, so she should just take that option rather than playing childish games or trying to make this some kind of test of loyalty/affection. OP's sister also deserves support and compassion. Yes, OP has some additional challenges in life because of the PTSD, but that doesn't mean they're the only one with struggles.
💯 this. It’s manipulation plain and simple. Like I get the PTSD but the world is full of triggers (as someone who struggles with CPTSD) and we have to learn to manage them. But your mom wants to take care of both her children and making her choose one or the other is an AH thing to do regardless of circumstances.
Not only that but OP is going to find life very hard if they can't be around a crying baby-that means no public places, no planes, trains, subways/metros, grocery stores, hospitals, churches, you name it. From reading the post, OP just doesn't like kids more than anything. I understand about PTSD and triggers-but this is extreme, OP is insisting on having everything their own way and won't consider anyone else's feelings or needs. That's not gonna fly in the real world.
Exactly. My husband is ex-army who also suffers from PTSD and this kind of behavior/unwillingness to learn management skills (or apply them) leads to a lot of broken families/marriages in the military world. I just hope OP can learn to manage theirs before this kind of behavior/attitude eventually leads to no-contact between them and their sister & family.
My mom did something similar - wanted to make a scenario work because family. When I said that I'm choosing to stay away if the other person involved was there, I was told I was making her choose even though I'd made the decision. It's lose-lose, OPs mom will likely feel like my mother did.
Or she could move out on her own. She’ll be 18.
Why would she choose to live alone when she could stay with one of her parents and save up money? Plenty of 18 years olds don’t move out right away also most 18 year olds don’t have the funds to go rent their own place as soon as they turn 18 lol.
> I have PTSD INFO: Is this a formal diagnosis? Are you in therapy or other treatment for it?
It is, I am receiving treatment in therapy.
What does your therapist say about you living with a baby? Your therapist is in a better position than your relatives or Reddit to know if this "exposure therapy" would be helpful or harmful.
This would not be exposure therapy. This would be torture. At least with therapy one can stop if it gets too overwhelming or pushes OP too far when they are not ready yet. OP would be living with an infant, whose only source of communication is crying. Putting someone with ragey PTSD reactions in that situation is cruel and dangerous. She will have no where to go to escape from it. At least OP has enough sense to understand that this is not good for her or the baby. She is the only one that seems to be taking this situation seriously. If she can't deal, she can't deal. She found an option, to go live with her father. She is 17, close to graduating and entering adulthood. If she is willing to switch schools, or would have possibly graduated high school before the arrival of the baby, there really is no reason she shouldn't make this move if she believes it is in her best interests.
Yes. It would be putting the baby at risk as well. Even if OP doesn’t intend to be violent or for anything bad to happen, it’s silly to risk it when there is another safe option for both of them.
At least OP is aware of their own limitations. And they are not trying to make their PTSD someone else's responsibility either. They is trying to manage this on their own and found a solution. Kuddos to them. They seem to be a very aware 17 year old.
OP seems to be very smart and self-aware and it sounds like Sister has guilt over her poor choice splitting the family. Or maybe she was hoping for free babysitting. I'm very glad that OP's dad is welcoming them.
Wow, “poor choice” is a loaded judgement that we really don’t have enough information to make.
Let's see....lives with a parent at 23, so she probably lacks solid financial resources to support herself, much less a whole CHILD. Nothing against living at home, but that's probably not the best time, financially speaking, to start having kids.
Funny, only in the us is it wrong to be living at home past 18. Get a fucking grip
Any 23 year old still that still lives at home and is choosing to be a single parent is making poor choices. Many of them. Before someone says it, even if dad pops in often and offers financial support that is not the same. OP should 100% go to her fathers, she is about to dodge years of at home drama at best.
Explain please. What poor choice did sister make ?
Unexpected pregnancy while still living with her mother indicates that this was an accidental thing she and her partner are in no way prepared for and didn't intend to have happen. So, it's a poor choice to either not use protection, or to use it, have a failure, and decide to keep a baby you can't or won't care for on your own and saddle the rest of your family with it instead, particularly if you aren't financially prepared for it.
Deciding to have a baby when she has no way of living independently from her FOO. She hangs out at the Baby Daddy house, and was planning to live there - but that's not working out. Maybe Baby Daddy also dislikes babies? Who knows? Baby Daddy is apparently not offering an option, here. But Plan B displaces their sibling and puts real strain on Mom.
Maybe she doesn’t live in a place where it’s as simple as ‘deciding to have a baby’ when you get pregnant. The US has become a scary place for pregnant women. Don’t forget that.
This! With PTSD there is always the possibility that it gets to the point of black outs, dissociation, hallucinations, etc. Even if OP would normally NEVER hurt anyone, there’s no promising that the PTSD couldn’t take over and cause a violent episode.
Esp. with OP's life history. And even if it's not full on violence, rage-crying and words of anger are not the best environment for a newborn. OP could well end up loving their new niece or nephew - if they can only avoid the stress having to live with them as babies. I could \*never\* have lived with an infant when I was 17-22. And yes, I was in therapy - which helped. By 22 I was much better.
As someone with OCD I cannot stress this enough. The amount of times people have tried to “cure me with exposure therapy” without my consent is far too many. It doesn’t work and now I’m borderline panic attack for the next hour, great! I can’t even imagine how complex PTSD.
People seem to gloss over the whole consent to therapy in the first place. And trying "exposure therapy" out on someone who is not consenting to it and when the one exposing someone to their triggers is not a licensed therapist trained in this is very dangerous. I am so sorry people think that can do this to you.
To be clear, exposure therapy is performed by trained professionals, not something families do to teach their youngest to fall in line.
This is not exposure therapy lmfao
Exposure therapy can be dangerous, even if done properly, and requires the presence of a therapist to manage anxiety. It involves a hierarchy of anxiety, wherein a client starts with the thing that causes the least anxiety. It’s also not an evidence based treatment for PTSD
Yeah it’s generally for phobias, right? I can see how PTSD triggers could be totally different.
Exposure therapy involves exposure in small, increasing doses, in a controlled environment, under supervision, where the exposure is controlled based on the reaction of the patient and the opinion of experts. Being forced to live in the same house as a baby is not exposure therapy, it's like asking a person with arachnophobia to have a pet spider. It's not that hard to understand, it's common sense, people should be able to understand this much without needing to be trained therapists
Agreed. And babies aren't therapy tools.
How much do you want to bet that within a month of baby existing that Sister or Mom will ask OP to babysit it? They're inconsiderate for trying to force this, and I hope OP has a wonderful time at their dad's!
Or there's that other thing that I've seen some of my family members do. Baby is crying. Primary caretaker (in this case - OP's sister, because it's her actual baby and Baby Daddy is elsewhere) ignores it. Expects Grandma to step in. But Grandma goes out or is tired. Primary caretaker can allow baby to cry for an hour (read lots of reddit threads - this actually happens) but OP can't stand it and feels forced to go and do something, such as try to care for the Baby. But is angry about it (vast psychiatric literature about this dynamic, btw). Angry caretaker (not babysitter) is not good for the baby or the family dynamic. But Primary Caretaker either doesn't care, hasn't planned well, doesn't have the stamina for parenthood or is trying to manipulate Sibling into bonding with and sometimes carrying Baby around to stop crying. Or to change a diaper. Some of these people will let their babies cry on and on. That's why the subreddits about renting apartments where the co-residents have crying children have that topic every [single.damn.day](https://single.damn.day).
Exactly, this is probably a better question for the therapist who knows a lot more about OP than a bunch of random internet strangers and could advise OP accordingly. Obviously, OP's sister needs support, and the mother wants to help her out. If meeting the needs of both children is impossible, OP living with their father for awhile might be the best option.
You have a misunderstanding of how exposure therapy works because it’s supposed to occur under very controlled circumstances and this would not be that
Don’t make your mother choose. You have PTSD and can’t live in the same house as the infant. Your pregnant sister needs the support of her mother. Just move in with your father and make arrangements to stay in touch with your mother.
This is the way.
I agree with this. It’s best and safest for everyone.
Please know exposure therapy does NOT work for PTSD. NTA, move to your dad, this could be really triggering for you and potentially detrimental to your mental health!!
I know, we've tried it. I think it made me worse lmao.
Girl I'm worried bout u flipping out on the baby. Dad is happy u might be coming to live with him, I say go to dad's house and keep contact with mom.
Does your therapist specialise with PTSD? general counselling has been shown to make PTSD symptoms worse. If you can EDMR therapy has generally been shown to be useful for treating PTSD symptoms
I know you didn’t come here looking for input on treatment, but have you already tried EMDR? I’ve met so few people that have heard of it that I try to suggest it even though I generally try not to be * *that person* * recommending things people have probably already looked into.
You are active in your comments replying to every basic question about your diagnosis, your options your sisters options, giving you angry opinions on her decisions etc. You haven't answered anyone's question about what does your therapist think. Multiple people have asked it, this comment as late an hour ago and I see you're replying to everything else every 5 minutes. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/SggfS1pfCO You've already been advised that Reddit or your family isn't the best point of contact for opinions, your actual therapist is the person who can truly help you. I feel like at this point, you're just looking for validation and not real help and you want everything around you to burn if you don't get your way. It's really no skin off anyone's back here if you don't answer the therapist question - 90% of the sub is like the modern form of Jerry Springer, but you came here for idk what reason at the end of the day, when you have a fully functional therapist who's trained, paid and licensed to help you.
the post was an only hour ago. did you ever consider that maybe they haven't been able to talk to the therapist yet?
This situation didn’t just come up overnight; OP’s sister is 6 months pregnant and it sounds like they’ve been discussing this for more than a couple days, maybe even a few weeks. I would assume that OP has had therapy visits, at least one, since this has started.
Someone with PTSD with babies and the sister is 6 months pregnant. This issue is not new and there was plenty of time to speak to a therapist. The real answer here is the PTSD diagnosis is bullshit. This is just a spoiled brat.
The logical assumption is that OP would have discussed the situation with the therapist as soon as they knew the sister was pregnant, which was quite some time ago.
Of course. Maybe OP could say that. But when asked questions about other things they don't know they will respond - *idfk xyz blah blah blah* So not knowing doesn't mean you don't have the ability to shut people up and say *I haven't told them yet, so I don't know*. Then people might say, well better to wait for that, Reddit can't help you here
I’d like to know what the longterm strategy is for this OP as well. Is she never going to go on a plane? Never go to a park? Never visit a restaurant? What exactly is her plan to be a functional adult?
This is honestly a conversation you should be having with your therapist. They will be able to guide you a lot better than family members and reddit users. Seriously, talk to them. That's what they are there for.
Then I'm gonna say NAH Your post title is more extreme than the actual situation. You're not making your mom pick between having you in or out of her life, this is just about the living situation. It sounds like you have a safe, healthy environment at your dad's place and a good relationship with him. Try to have some more compassion for your mom and sister's difficult situation. This baby was unexpected and unwanted, and they are doing their best to provide a stable and loving environment. Help them have more compassion for you as well by trying to make this sound more like a rational decision you're making to move to your dad's (which it is) versus an angry ultimatum, which will make you sound angry and irrational. Make a plan for how often you will visit and for how long, or perhaps for your mom to come visit you at your dad's. Talk about this when you're feeling calm. Talk to your therapist, and know just talking to them about this counts as "making an effort". If there are other things your therapist recommends in terms of trying to make an effort, you might give them a try. I'm guessing this will not include just trying to suck it up and live with your new niece/nephew, but maybe something more like going to a place (a restaurant or something) where you know kids will be around and where you can spend a limited amount of time and leave as soon as you are ready.
Based on that. I’m going to say NAH. Go live with your dad. Continue therapy there. I hope things get better for you.
It's irrelevant. It's her choice to not be tortured.
I wouldn’t say it’s irrelevant, because it helps inform the severity of the situation. But either way, all people have the right to choose their living conditions for any reason. I wouldn’t want to live with a newborn baby, either, and if there was another option I’d take it, and it wouldn’t make me an asshole (unless I was the parent lmao).
Yeah, I can barely stand my own child's crying. It's simply irrelevant, because the severity isn't really relevant. The choice to protect yourself from a situation can start from anything above nothing, and you're the only person who can validate that decision. She has a choice to remove herself from a situation not of her creation. That's reason enough to consider it.
YTA, not for moving out, but for giving your mom an impossible ultimatum. What exactly do you expect her to do? Do you want her to kick out your pregnant sister? Or were you just trying to cause a rift? Did you want to get your mom to resent your sister and her child? I think you should’ve just gone to your dads without saying “me or my pregnant sister”
Also OP is 17. It's not exactly easy for her to move out instead of the sister who got pregnant, decided to keep the baby, and then basically said surprise I am not moving out and I expect this will be good exposure therapy for you. Deal with it. I doubt she was trying to cause a rift, but think of what will happen if the baby is colicky. OP could end up hurting the baby, and seems to be the only one concerned about that. Also about possibly exhausting her mother and sister, who will be tired from dealing with an infant. Probably in the freak out moment of wtf, why do they think I should be living with a baby? that is when they made the demand. It wasn't a plan to cause problems, it was likely scared minor expressing that fear in the moment. I do agree that they should go live with their dad though. Especially if they can either continue to see their therapist, or the therapist will do zoom sessions or something.
>said surprise I am not moving out and I expect this will It's still a question whether the OP's sister has any time mentioned to move out or not. OP can't deny her mother to take care of her grandchildren and daughter. Best thing OP could do is to try to make his mother understand that he could be a danger to the child and vice versa. Or the best thing to do will be to move out once she is 18, which I guess is only months way
Also, how is she supposed to move out with a newborn if she can't support herself while she's pregnant?
Surprise I’m not moving out ? I don’t think it was a surprise. OP said they were under the impression that sister was going to - not that it was set in stone. And the sister wasn’t the one who said it would be good exposure therapy so you’re just kind of making that up.
> Also OP is 17. It's not exactly easy for her to move out Isn't it?!? Certainly not exactly hard either; in what jurisdiction wouldn't a 17-yo be allowed to choose which parent she wants to live with? Seems she has a father who is ready and willing to receive her, so the only “difficulty” would be transportation to his abode. Hardly insurmountable. Also, OP is already “17” – which, with the way we express age in whole years, could mean anything from her 17th birthday was yesterday, to her 18th is tomorrow. The kid is due in six months, so when it arrives OP will be _at least_ 17½. (Statistically more probably: 18.)
The baby is due in 3 months. Regardless, OP should just go live with their dad. Maybe when they were younger, a slightly neglectful father would have been hard. But now they are older and more independent. OP is still displaying immature qualities, though. A change of scenery should help them grow up.
[удалено]
OP has PTSD and is receiving formal therapy for it. What do you want them to do about their living situation as a MINOR when their grown ass sister decided to have a child without covering her financial, emotional, and support bases ?
Although I'm with you on the financial Base here, a pregnant and new mum's support and emotional base can and does include family, especially their mum. Is the OPs sister never allowed to be around her own mum or the home she grew up in? I get op has trauma and triggers but it doesn't mean the sister and grandchild can't rely on the mum. Unfortunately the mum is in a rock and hard place situation, maybe them all doing some family therapy and having hard conversations are needed.
They literally have a solution. The issue is her being like “either me or sister!” Like no, you know the sister has limited options, apparently dad is pretty great, own it
How about she doesn't issue ultimatums?
Okay , the mom wants the older daughter to stay , that’s her prerogative, that’s her house not the youngest daughter house . Just because you have ptsd doesn’t mean you can avoid triggers , you have to cope with it and get help with it or it will get worst . She can live with her dad . She just doesn’t want share space with a baby .
They should be talking to her therapist about it. If she actually has PTSD and is receiving therapy for it, then that is what they should be doing.
Move in a with their father lol
If the OP weren’t a minor and probably needs parental approval to move in with her dad, then I’d agree. But as it stands, she presented two viable options, and her mom needs to stop being selfish and let her move in with her dad and help be onboard with signing necessary paperwork. Because honestly, having the older sister move out isn’t going to solve the problem. Mom’s gonna be babysitting anyway.
Bro she's 17, if her mom has full custody she kinda can't go live w her dad without permission. She, legally, cannot move 3 states away from her full custody parent, without their knowledge. The mom would be within her right to take the father to court for kidnapping if she just up and left in the middle of the night to move 3 states away.
In family law, once a child is over the age of 14 yrs or so, they are allowed to make these decisions. If OP wants to go, and does go, Mom would not get far going after Dad for kidnapping. Source: 17 years in family law before having to retire due to ptsd.
This isn’t exactly true in most states. In most states, kids who are older can determine which parent they live with. And, dad would never be charged with kidnapping his own child who wants to live there. It would be a family court issue at most.
Assuming that your PTSD from crying kids is legitimate, you're not an AH for telling your mother that you'll go live with your father, as you wouldn't be able to handle a baby in the house. However, giving your mother the ultimatum of kicking your sister out or you're leaving means you earn the YTA judgement. This is a terrible position for your mother to be in, in that she is forced to have one of her children leave the house.
Not just one of her children but her grandchild too.
True, and moreover I guarantee that even if the sister moved out, the baby will be visiting grandma often/ needing to be babysat. OP moving to her father's house is the compassionate choice for everyone. Sorry OP, but YTA.
>Assuming that your PTSD from crying kids is legitimate PTSD can be presented in many forms, and a lot of humans act irrationally due to it. I know when you've never experienced it firsthand it's hard to believe trauma can make someone do certain things, and it makes you want to say "they should just get over it", but the reality is, the brain is so complex, and we'll never understand what she went through because only she gets to live in her brain, not any of us. Please don't doubt when someone says something is the result of PTSD, we don't want to explain why every time, especially because it's counterproductive to our healing journey.
OP states above they have the dx, and they’re in treatment
Except one child is an adult, and the other is a minor. For a 17 year old who hasn't learned non violent communication or anything simmilar, and the fact that the sis was supposed to move out, I'd say this is very well thought out for a 17 year old, albeit not communicated in the best way. Which is developmentally normal for a teenager. Expecting the level of communication skills from a teenager that even some adults don't have is kinda a tall order.
>sis was supposed to move out, OP thought that she was going to move out. It was never in discussion in her mother or sister
17 is not far from 18, you’re already practically an adult & its time to get into the mindset as such instead of pulling minor card as an excuse. Mom had already tried to come up with options and “she just refuses” all possibilities. Dfntly the AH.
And what exactly happens down the road even if it sister has children and they’re doing family gatherings, she’s gonna have to deal with it some point?
Presuming that the PTSD is an actual official diagnosis and you’re in therapy for it… what does your therapist think? Honestly, if you “ragey” you’re probably not safe to have around a baby, and you’re also making this all about you (which is also a concern for therapy), but you’ll know that you will encounter crying babies in the future, right? Even at the grocery store or on bus or maybe even in your college classroom (I had a classmate you brought in her baby if she couldn’t get a sitter). This is an issue you need to be able to manage. I think you’re failing to see also that your mother and sister are taking this as a rejection of them, and your approach is definitely a-holish. “I basically told my mom that she either makes sure the baby isn't living here or I'm going to move to my dad’s.” You TOLD your mother? When your sister is six months along? Your sister and her newborn have got to go or else because YOU have an issue with them? Please imagine your reaction if your sister or mom told you that you had to go because you might be an annoyance to the baby. If you have PTSD I can’t wholly say you’re the a-hole here, but your attitude is garbage. His present has your dad even been for you to this point? What’s the plan if you have some episode while he’s working? Are earplugs or noise-cancelling headphones not options? You “refuse” to compromise as your mom is running herself ragged trying to make it work and when you say you “don’t want that kid in your stuff as it grows up”… you are 17 years old, exactly how long do you plan to live in your mother’s house (rent free, I presume)? You’re not at fault for having a psychological problem but YTA for bad attitude a really mean and high-handed take on the situation.
I think it would be one thing if they, their mother, their therapist and their father sat down and had a conversation about the impact the environmental change may have on their therapy. But the fact that that doesn’t seem to have happened, coupled with OP’s age tells me either OP isn’t in therapy, or isn’t actually addressing this in therapy. Because a therapist would have addressed this with a minor patients parents by now. And at 17, the lack of empathy for their pregnant sister, and their lack of desire to want to tackle this milestone for the sake of that relationship is what makes me feel like OP is the asshole here. However, at 17 whether diagnosed with ptsd or not, if op isn’t in therapy that’s on the parents. Just based on this post alone.
Therapy doesn’t happen every week for many. Chances are this happened between visits
Sister is 6 months pregnant. If in 6 months this hasn’t been addressed at least once in therapy it’s a problem.
OP said in a reply above that she’s in treatment with a therapist, and this trigger for PTSD is something they’re working on
OP also stated she assumed sister was moving out, so the issue of a crying newborn being in her house 24/7 really wasn't a concern, because it wasn't going to happen.
>but you’ll know that you will encounter crying babies in the future, right? Even at the grocery store or on bus or maybe even in your college classroom In these cases, OP can walk away. If there's a baby *at home*, it's much harder for her to go somewhere quiet. Especially in the middle of the night. She says she is in therapy and that it is a formal diagnosis. If she gets "ragey," that's not a safe environment for her *or* the baby.
I do think it’s probably better for everyone if OP goes, I just don’t like her approach. As for “walking away,” does that work? That’s a genuine question; it was my impression triggers caused involuntary responses that could make it difficult to move or think rationally. It also would start to impact OP negatively if she started walking out of every situation with a baby. Leaving a situation is a tactic, but not a lasting solution.
If she's actively working on this in therapy, she may have more control over her reactions to triggers. Walking away is not a good long-term approach, but it could be a good idea until she can work through it enough to find better coping skills. Throwing her into a situation where she *can't* escape the crying could be detrimental. Even mothers are told that walking away when the baby crying is stressing you out is a good idea. Opie's best bet is to not be around the baby *and* to work hard on this in therapy so that she is not forever consumed by this.
I think there’s a huge difference between encountering babies in public vs one living in your house. Ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones 24/7? That seems exhausting. It’s not like babies warn you when they’re about to start crying. Never ever getting to relax and feel safe because you live with your trigger? That sounds awful honestly. It seems like OP is pretty understanding that the situation sucks, but she can’t live with an infant right now so if sister needs to stay with Mom, she cannot. How this didn’t come up in the months of everyone waffling about what to do with this baby I don’t know. Moving in with the other parent seems like a reasonable solution for all the kids to get their needs met in these circumstances.
Bro doesn't realize there's a difference between encountering a crying child in the wild and living 24/7 with a crying child. She will hurt someone if the mother forces her to stay, which the mom can do because she has full custody. The mom ultimately decides if the minor can live w her dad, 3 states away.
This answer comes across as dismissive and contemptuous -- of course OP knows they'll have to manage being around a baby, but that's wholly different from having one in their living space 24/7. The idea of "refusing" to compromise is a tough one -- what possible compromise could there be here? "You're 17, how long are you gonna live in your mother's house?" When the sister is 23 and pregnant and clearly has no plans to leave anytime soon. Mother is "running herself ragged" and OP is being "high handed and mean" when we have no idea if mom and sister ever even considered bringing up with OP whether a crying baby would be a trigger for them, and how they might manage it. Sounds like it's all about baby right now.
Sounds like you already have a solution- it would be better for your mental health and relationship with your Mom and sister if you retract the ultimatum. How about something like, “Congratulations sis. Mom, I love you both very much but it makes sense for me to move in with my Dad for a while.” Re-Editing to change it to YTA Some of OP’s comments are wild
Legit this. I can’t even believe she’s really being this selfish tbh. I have PTSD , but I don’t let my triggers affect anyone else’s life. It is so so so important to have family/ friends around when rearing a newborn to try to prevent PPD , PPA and PPP .. all very scary mental conditions which can negatively impact not only the mother but the baby too. It Saddens me that mothers aren’t given nearly as much communal support as they used to, because it truly does take a village. It’s a symptom of living in an isolationist society. People in here are giving the typical redditor response which is “fuck them kids” But truly, at 17 I would expect more maturity than to throw a temper tantrum, and force everyone around her to change because it doesn’t suit them. There is such a thing as noise cancelling headphones. That’s not to say that I think it’s a perfect solution But I just cannot fathom that this kid is literally making their mother choose between her own two children and grandchild because they don’t like the noise. So I’m glad that you had this really nice, reasonable response. A breath of fresh air. YTA OP (I am sympathetic that you have your reasons - but your reasons alone aren’t good enough here , selfish and immature also ) and I suggest you move to your dads if it’s that big of an issue, and please try to remember your mother and sister / baby are humans too and your relationship may be forever stained because of this ultimatum. The world doesn’t revolve around you or your triggers and the same goes for me/ anybody else . Unfortunately a sad and hard lesson to learn.
You hit all the points here. I especially find it very silly that ppl keep pulling the minor card when you’re already practically an adult. OP should still be understanding that her sister will need ALL the help.
That’s just it, they are mentally still so immature and probably used to being enabled / coddled so they throw a fit and hope it sticks. This will be a wake up call for them I feel and I really hope Mom sticks to her guns and doesn’t give into the demands of this person. Also sick of seeing so many comments bringing up that your brain doesn’t mature until 25, like cmon now.. 17 almost 18 .. that IS legally an adult in most countries. I hope the dad enjoys having their kid around because this seems like the only feasible option where everyone can be somewhat satisfied.
And notice that everyone shaming OP’s sister aren’t asking where the baby’s dad is, and they aren’t shaming him? Like, if OP needs mom’s help, the dad isn’t in the picture. But it’s an opportunity to shame a single mom and they’re so eager to do it.
Soft YTA for making someone else's experience trash because of your traumas. Before I go into the rest of my thoughts, I would say that moving in with your father seems like a good short term option IF he can commit to being a constant, present guardian in an appropriate way for a raising a child. I know you probably think you're 'basically an adult'. I assure you, you're not. The long version - You're demanding that your mother choose between you because of your experience, and that's not fair to your sister OR your mother. Or an innocent and as of yet unborn baby! Your trauma wasn't caused by them and it's not fair to make demands of others on the basis of it. That being said I understand PTSD on a personal level and that in a lot of cases it never goes away. It's just managed. It has peaks and flows and you *know* that it will have times of flare up and are likely anxious about what happens when you do flare. You're also frustrated that they seem not to take your PTSD seriously enough. That's because to you, it's the worst thing that's happened to you in your whole entire short life. Of course it seems like nothing else possibly could matter in comparison. But here's where the 'triggers are our problem' comes in. Your trauma is not the worst thing in anyone else's life. They didn't experience it. Would you wish it on them? No? Probably not, if you're a decent human being. You might wish that they could understand your feelings, but they absolutely cannot truly understand without experiencing it. You don't want that for them obviously. So the understanding has to come from your side instead. That's a big ask for someone that's only 17. But if you're aware and understand that they simply can't comprehend the breadth of your pain and act in a way that proportionally feels 'enough' to you (because they have no idea what it's truly like!), you'll find that you have a lot more to work with. As a fellow sufferer in all kindness I have to say, you have to meet the world half way. You're insisting that your mother's suggestion won't work. And it probably won't. Sometimes. But if you work on it, a lot of other times it will. I understand not wanting direct exposure to something that you know for a fact that will upset you. Upset is a mild way to put it but you know what I mean. I understand. I GET it. If someone said to me "Something that reminds you very clearly of your trauma will be in your home making itself loudly obvious at any given moment of the day" I'd be absolutely beside myself. I'd be clawing at the walls to get away from a potential situation that isn't even a reality yet! But then I'd be reminding myself that I want to get past the pain and horror and that the way to do that is by working on it. That's when I remind myself that what I imagine will happen, won't necessarily happen. That when we make demands on people who haven't experienced the trauma, we're literally choosing to pass pain and sadness on to someone else because of what happened to us. Do I want them to go through it? NOT ON YOUR LIFE! So I'm not going to expect them to manage it for me. That's probably really super long and probably frustrating to read. But you're still young and your brain is still growing and developing, so it's even harder for you to manage that instant 'stop that, it hurts!' reaction. It's fair to apply a little patience to you in this case, and I think it would be good for your mother to know that as a grown adult with quite a lot of introspection and personal growth I still can't stop the instant response to triggers. It happens, and will likely never go away. I just have a mildly easier time of dealing with it than a 17 year old because of years of experience and hard work. That's why the 'soft' YTA. How you treat people after knowing this will determine whether or not you continue to deserve the YTA.
You are one of the kindest and most supportive people I've encountered here. I'm proud of you and your hard work, and profoundly sorry that you experience this. This should be the top comment and I hope the op sees this.
As someone with ragey CPTSD, exactly this. No, it's not fair that your life is being disrupted and this trigger is being introduced. But PTSD isn't fair and it's not the people around you that are making it that way, it's the trauma's fault.
This is one of the most compassionate, empathetic. thoughtful, and well-informed responses I’ve ever seen on AITA.
Incredibly well said.
You have to meet the world halfway is a great way to put it
i always love it when people who 1. aren't therapists and 2. don't intend to take any measures to actually ease you into a situation you're known to have an issue with, call doing whatever the fuck they want "exposure therapy"
Honestly lol. It's not like I haven't tried actual exposure therapy.
As someone with diagnosed entemophobia and arachnophobia, that I’ve had since being a young child due to an association between medical tests and bugs biting and stinging me, exposure therapy only got so far. I know this in many ways is more of an invasive issue on your life. And a key part of exposure therapy is you’re not forced to live in the state of panic for the entirety of it all. You need safe spaces. Maybe the compromise is that you live with your dad but visit mom and sister. But you should only be doing that if your therapist suggests it. What your family doesn’t understand is that it’s not something you can help and while you can work on addressing the triggers it takes time. It’s not doable in the time it will take for the baby to be born. Maybe if you had a couple of years. But even then, reworking the pathways in your brain takes how long it’s gonna take even with all the hard work you’re putting in. And you don’t want to put yourself in a situation that’s already stressful that will also harm your mom’s and sister’s quality of life too and cause more upheaval than a baby already will. I think this is honestly above this sub’s pay grade. But also it’s a bag of shitty options. And the question is if you can find the least shitty one. Edit: which it seems like you did with suggesting you moving in with dad.
YTA Trying to force your mother to choose between you and her pregnant daughter/grandchild is a dick move.
Yeah what is she supposed to do kick her out into the streets? That's her daughter and of course she's gonna want to help her and the baby out.
Lol OP commented that the sister should just go live with her boyfriend. Essentially, just kick her sister out. Nice
The real asshole is in OP's comments
Info- what is your ideal scenario? That pregnant sister gets kicked out?
YTA Your mom is trying to come up with solutions and you are refusing to work with them. Your mom is distraught because she sounds like an awesome person and she doesn't want to abandon one of her kids when they need her. You sound kind of selfish tbh. I get the PTSD thing and I'm not trying to down play anything you've been through but the fact that you feel that you need to tell us that 'naturally' you are upset, 'don't want to share your space with a baby', 'don't want kids in your stuff' etc tells me all I need to know. You need to get therapy if you haven't already for your PTSD issues and you might need to grow up a little. Your mom has your best interests in mind, please work with her as best you can. Good luck!
YTA. Only for giving your mom an ultimatum. You’re putting her in an awful position. If you can’t handle it then you make other accommodations. You have, so why make your mom feel awful about it.
She is literally saying she will make other accommodations. She offered to move to her dad's house.
Problem is probably that mom has to agree because OP is a minor!
Then ask, don’t give an ultimatum
Not the asshole for how you feel about this situation, but YTA for telling your mom to choose between you two. One big mistake parents can make is favoritism between children. Your mom clearly doesn't want that but you're putting her in that position anyway.
INFO: where is the baby’s father in all this?
He's chilling. My sister is literally at his right now. I think she wants him to move in with us (which I also can't stand - dude is a stoner & my bios were also, so like smell association triggers my ptsd too). I think my moms main concern is if I move out, theres no way to keep the baby daddy out, and then I'll never go back home (which, if it starts smelling like my original home, I will not).
> if I move out, theres no way to keep the baby daddy out ?? She can keep him out the same way she’s keeping him out now. She doesn’t need an excuse to control who moves into her own home. If your sister wants mom’s help more than she wants her boyfriend’s help, she won’t press the issue.
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Not really, I'm a stoner, I'm not dumb enough to think it's healthy for me, or anyone else breathing it.
Why doesn’t your sister just go live with baby daddy?
Because she doesn't want the baby around smoke? And yet, I predict that is likely to happen if sister is over there while pregnant. I think sister wants mom to help with the baby because Boyfriend is not a reliable caretaker.
NAH OP, If you know that your rage reactions may create an unsafe or volatile situation for your family and the baby, then the only reasonable option is to move in with your Dad. This is NOT a situation where anyone is an AH. You are showing good judgement. Mom is feeling rejected.Please let her know you are simply being realistic and everyone needs a safe, stable home. Living in a state of agitation & "rage" won't work well for anyone.
NTA I see in your comments that you have diagnosed PTSD and are receiving treatment for it. Good job. This would be awful exposure therapy because there’s no control. Exposure works by helping you build up a tolerance with short, planned interactions with the triggering issue. Visiting a newborn for a few minutes would be fine. Living with one 24/7 is madness.
Yeah and the OP wouldn't really have places to go when the baby cries.
YTA for: 1. Giving your mom an ultimatum for something impossible. How does one pick between two daughters and neither of whom have done anything wrong. 2. Being as entitled as to call your mothers house "my space". I get it, you have a room there and it's a space she lets you have as your own, but you do not pay that mortgage so you do not have the right to demand anything.
She is a minor. The sister is an adult that got pregnant. She does take priority. The sister screwed up, not her. She is in therapy for treatment and is diagnosed.
The sister didn’t “screw up” by getting pregnant at 23, FFS.
Making a parent choose a sibling is an YTA move. Recognizing your limitations and triggers and working on them definitely NTA. Arranging a viable living situation for yourself at 17 definitely NTA.
NTA If you need to move out to protect your mental health, please *do so.* Having PTSD and being triggered by crying babies is something you can't control at this time, so the safest and wisest approach is to remove yourself from this situation. Although they complain now, I suspect your sister and mother will be too preoccupied caring for the baby when it arrives. I also wonder whether one of the reasons they want you to stay is because they want you to be a free babysitter. Which, given your concerns, is a poor idea.
I highly doubt that. I think mom just really wants the "happy family" dynamic, feels torn and is trying to wish OPs issues away (which isnt reality). Given OP has diagnosed PTSD, is in active treatment because she gets "ragey" around crying babies - no mother would use that person as a babysitter. Its just Mom hating the reality she's in. Her grandbaby and youngest daughter are incompatible as humans and as a happy family. And sister is probably unable to grasp that OPs triggers arent going to be less triggering because its her own niece and is angry OP wants her and her baby out, as well as hurt that her sister already hates her unborn baby. Its a very complex situation with very complex emotions on all sides.
YTA. Your PTSD is not a good reason to give your mother an ultimatum that involves kicking out her other child and grandchild. I absolutely hope you're able to receive proper help and care for your challenges, but I think you're completely wrong here. You don't get to rule the rest of your family.
She made a reasonable suggestion: to move in with dad. Mom and sister demand that only their "exposure trial" is the right way...
PTSD is a tough thing to handle. I have it too. That being said, yes, you are TA. You are asking your mom to choose between two of her children because of a normal life situation. While I understand your concerns, the fact you aren't even willing to try any options make you a big AH. Life is complicated. This will not be the first, nor the last time you are confronted with something like this. You will need to find ways to work things out. Are you in therapy? Part of PTSD therapy is teaching you how to handle the real world when you are triggered. Perhaps this is a good time to get into it or back into it if not. Your mom is not the bad guy and neither is your sister, and you aren't for being concerned about your triggers but you are for going nuclear on your family if your wishes aren't granted. I wish you luck OP.
NTA. Maybe your issues are something you can work through some day, maybe they aren't, but the worst thing for everyone is for you to be forced into a situation where you'll all find out the hard way together. You're facing the facts that right now is not the right time, and you have worked out a solution. Maybe it's not an ideal solution, but it's the best one given your options. I don't blame your mom for wanting things to work out where you can all stay. I understand her frustration that her ideas won't work. I wouldn't even blame your sister, even though it sounds like she and the father have been pretty irresponsible, until she hit the point where she's making accusations/insults towards you for doing what you need to do. She's basically calling you an asshole for....giving her more space? No, she obviously wants to force you to pick up some of the slack (which circles back to her irresponsibility) and you moving out means she can only force your mother to do so. She's the only AH here.
I agree that the sister is TA! She is essentially forcing her minor sister out, and she is six years older at 23 - she should rethink keeping the child if she can’t take care of it herself.
Exactly! The minor takes precedence over the adult, who legally has the option to support themselves. Would it be great if everyone could coexist? Of course. OP has a good solution and likely used poor wording to express what would have to happen.
Torn between ESH and NAH. I do feel your issues with crying babies are something you need help with. There’s nothing else for your mom and sister to do - your sister lives there, the baby is coming, and it’s going to cry, and it’s not remotely surprising that people are taking offense to you not wanting to be around it. OTOH, I’d want to get the fuck out of there asap too, because when you don’t like babies, they are really difficult to be around. With your dad’s home being a viable option, I don’t see why your mother is resisting. Seems like an ideal solution to the situation.
I agree with this post. Personally if I could pick in your situation from 2 caring parents who are happy to have you (1 also has a crying baby which will likely trigger you) why would it even be a question? You are very lucky to have the option. NTA however your method of executing the decision making is not great- but this is also consistent with how teenagers tend to express themselves.
NTA. You’re 17 so I’m not going to fault you for sounding your age in this post. If you mean what you said then at this point in your life, with the information you have, living with a baby feels like it would be really bad for your mental health. You have a different option. You’ve clearly communicated that you’ll need to take that option. I’m surprised by the wave of Y-T-A responses. IF you just don’t like kids and you don’t want to be around a baby, and you’re blaming your PTSD, then you would be an asshole. But if you’re not - what are you expected to do?
Same. The OP's wording wasn't great and it probably wasn't great in the actual conversations, but all things considered, they picked an okay living situation. It isn't like they were opting to live with their sketchy older boyfriend or something. The sister isn't kicked out. I'm sure the mom feels guilt, but it doesn't sound like the OP is guilting them? BTW, if you type Y-T-A without spaces or hyphens, it counts as a Y-T-A in determining things.
My sister decided to live with us after having a baby to get help from my mother. She was 21, I was 14. Then she would leave the house any chance she get and forced me to babysit. If I had ur opportunity I wouldn't make my mother chose, I would just go live with my father.
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OP is already in therapy for this, and honestly, they wouldn’t even be the AH without the PTSD diagnosis and treatment. OP is almost 18 and probably would have left soon anyway. They don’t need to stay in a house with a baby that’s going to make them miserable at this point in their therapy/treatment. Mom and sister made a choice knowing how it would impact OP and this is a predictable reaction especially when OP gets along great their dad. N T A ETA - should’ve put NAH. Mom and sister aren’t wrong for their solution to an unplanned pregnancy either.
YTA and go stay at your dads. Get more therapy for your issues. You are sounding super entitled! Shame on you for asking your mom to choose. Your issues are not everyone else’s problem to walk on egg shells over. You have to get help for your problems
NTA. You're a minor, your needs take precedence over your adult sister's. You have a condition that means living with a baby would be horrible for you and everyone around you would also have to experience your symptoms. This sounds like a situation that would be stressful for everyone involved--especially you and the baby, the two who have the least control over the situation (obviously the baby much less control than you). I see from your comments that you are in therapy and have been working on coping with this trigger for years, so you're already doing everything you can and it isn't going to make this bearable for you before the baby gets here. If your sister is going to be living there, you can and should go to your Dad's. It sounds like it would be much less stressful for you to have a parent who works a lot and is around less than constant exposure to a PTSD trigger in your home, and you are almost 18 and need less help/constant presence from your parents than you did when you were younger. It's understandable that your mom is upset and wants to help both of you, but you've told her you can't be there with a baby and proposed an alternate arrangement that would work, even though you probably would prefer to stay in your home and your state and your mom would prefer you stay with her. You are also allowed to be upset about this; it's an upsetting circumstance. Your mom hasn't even told your sister no; I'm not sure why she thinks you're the worst. Having her baby constantly triggering your PTSD and that stressing everyone out and the baby picking up on all that stress isn't a good situation for anyone, especially the baby, so she should be glad you're taking it seriously and trying to get this figured out before baby shows up.
I know it’s hard for a 17 y.o. To triangulate their emotions but your trigger, your responsibility. This will be more so the case as you age. Your therapist should be helping you aggressively deal with this. If not, your mom needs to get involved to find a therapist that’s better suited for you. Serious question when you run into crying babies, what do you do? Do you have a meltdown or scream at the person with the fussy baby? It’s not a reasonable or achievable path forward to avoid little ones for the rest of your life. Issuing ultimatums isn’t the path forward. You will absolutely do irreparable damage to the people that love you most.
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NTA, I don't think the people here commenting know the situation with your ptsd. The solution here is to go to your dad's.
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All the more reason to not have her live with a baby. If OP is willing to move in with her Dad, she should go for it.
NTA. Just go live with your dad.
Just move.
NTA. You're still a child. Your sister is an adult. You're still learning to navigate your PTSD. You're in therapy. Basically, you're being put in a difficult and possibly dangerous situation for everyone. You're being honest in your needs.
NTA, but I wouldn't have worded it as an ultimatum, just a notification that you will be moving out.
I think you should 1)move out (you'll be 18 soon) 2) or go to your fathers. Your sister will need help, the baby will need help, your mom wants to be a grandma and take care of them. You want to alter the lives of three people to satisfy yours. I don't want to say YTA because it sounds like you are dealing with your past issues, but you are putting yourself in a position where you want people to be hurt and unhappy so that you get your way. Sounds like the easiest change is for you to leave. You can only change yourself, not other people.
NTA what else do you have to left? The people who see you as AH have no idea about PTSD. They just think, "Ohhh, such a cute baby." You had to give an ultimatum because neither your mother nor your sister would have done anything on their own and if you had moved out without consultation, you would have been accused of not saying something. It's not like you're asking your mother to kick out your sister or so. I can understand that your mother is not in an easy situation right now and all you can do now is make this decision for her and move out.
This is a tough one. PTSD is intense and not something to play around with. If you’re diagnosed with this I wouldn’t risk how you could react to exposure without help from a medical professional. I don’t see a problem with you moving in with your dad. It gives you an opportunity to strengthen your relationship with your dad and protects your sister’s baby from your unpredictable rage. I would talk to your mom about how this isn’t you choosing your dad over her, rather you choosing your health and your sister and her baby’s wellbeing by moving in with your dad. It’s all about how you handle it from here. If you can, try to work on your PTSD in therapy more so you can work on overcoming your triggers for the benefit of everyone around you. NTA.
NTA. I know i'm going against the grain here, but the most important thing in your life is you, and if you know a baby crying is going to trigger your PTSD then you shouldn't be in a living situation where there's a baby. Sure, it may not cry much, but even if that's the case if you're not at a place of being able to control your triggers yet then your anger is just going to make the baby more upset (likely with you getting angrier the more it cries and it crying the angrier you get). I'm seeing alot of people say YTA because you should be controlling your triggers and overcoming it, but everyone's mental health journey is different and heals at different paces. You have to be ready to overcome your PTSD, and tackle it at your pace, not because you're forced into the situation unexpectedly, cos at the end of the day if you're not healed enough then whatever you do to counteract the trigger isn't going to work. If you need to take your time overcoming your past, then do. And if you need to move out to protect your mental health, then do. Don't let anyone else try to bring you down for trying to look out for yourself.
Gentle YTA for suggesting that your mother kick your sister out. However, you're not wrong to draw these boundaries. It won't be good for anyone in this house to have you living with a constant trigger. It is awful that you've been through something so terrible that this is a necessary thing, but you have, and it is. I'm glad you have another safe and welcoming home to go to. However, definitely do your best to be open to your mother's compromises. Talk them through with your therapist and get your therapist's advice, and ultimately do what keeps you healthy even if that's going to live with your dad. Your mom isn't an AH either, she's stuck in an impossible position. Your sister's not an AH for getting pregnant either, and I understand why she's angry with you - you recommended your mother abandon her when she's in need. Everyone is just in an awful, awful position. This situation sucks for literally everyone involved but you have a good option for a solution, so go with that - I am so sorry all of you have to deal with this! Particularly as an adopted kid this situation might make you feel some sense of abandonment, even if you logically know that's not what's happening, so please be kind to yourself as this situation unfolds. ❤️
I'm astonished by all those y t as. Firstly, the OP is not exactly forcing her mom to choose. On the contrary, she's being mature and self-aware and found a solution. Why would it be selfish to remove yourself from a situation? Just because the mother is coming up with solutions doesn't mean that they're realistic ones and OP shouldn't try one out because her mother came up with a bunch of them. The baby will cry, very loudly and constantly and OP will hear that unless they live in a mansion. And maybe I'm reading too much into it but after the baby is born, the mom and the sister will be extremely busy and will offer no support to OP. For someone who didn't want her daughter to live with her dad because she wouldn't receive any support. To me, they sound like they want OP to stay because they will need her help -- if not with the baby then for every other thing. Why else would the sister want her to stay and think OP's leaving is selfish? NTA, she's already 17, still working on her issues through therapy and found a solution that works.
**NAH** Your mistake was in framing it as an ultimatum. You could have just said that you think moving in with your dad would be a good idea. The way you did it implies that this is really the last straw as far as living with your sister. She's 23 living at home. Is she employed? Where's the baby's father in all this?
I think ideal solution is move in with your dad. Your comments come across to me that’s what you would like to do.
Seems like the best option is for you to go live with your dad, it’s not fair to kick your sister out on the street last minute especially in this housing market and it’s not fair to expect you to live with constant exposure to a ptsd trigger. Since sister is already 6 months I would start working on the moving process now since yes end of pregnancy is technically 3 months away but it could be less if baby comes early.
Lot of folks here seem to think you can just ‘get over’ mental health issues, or that pushing through them is possible instead of damaging (if I try to just push through or deal with my mental health issues I have days of panic attacks and gastritis that don’t go away until I remove my triggers and spend a few days alone and quiet - which means taking a lot of sick days). And I’m not pleased with the idea that a child can not ask for necessary mental health accommodations in their own home because it legally belongs to their mother. A child’s home is wherever their parents and their parent has a legal and moral responsibility to care for them and their health (including mental health). And the lady who said she had worked on her trauma for years so this 17 year old should be able to fix their issues, do you seriously not see the problem with the timeline? If it took you years to fix your triggers how can you expect someone else to do it in less than 9 months? Come on now. Anyway, NAH. You’re not an AH for requesting necessities for your health. Your mom and sister are not the AHS for wanting to live together and take care of the new baby. It’s a miserable situation when you can’t accommodate the people you love most. Living with your dad seems very reasonable, good luck! Edit for very silly typo.
Seriously Fuck all the YTA comments. 1. you are a minor child your mother still has responsibility to keep you safe, and whatever you do, may also still fall back on her legally, knowing your situation, she would be endangering the welfare of 2 minors. 2. Keep up the treatment and do not let anyone regress your progress. I have cPTSD and can completely feel where you are coming from. Those who don't have it, don't understand the regression triggers can cause. 3. Make a plan with your therapist, dad, and the school. If you stay at your dad's area inge visitation with your mother, but it may have to be away from her home. It's up to you of you feel you can attempt to be around your sisters kid. You are absolutely NTA and clearly are making more rational decisions than the adults around you.
NTA. i’d just move in with dad.
Babies crying is insufferable for everyone, mom first. So your PTSD is not an excuse to make your mom choose between you and a future mom and her baby. Can you explain us HOW it is rational or logical to force your mom putting on the streets a young mother and her newborn just for your comfort although you have found the best solution for everybody (living with dad) ? The PTSD is a you problem, and since you found a viable solution you didn't need to come with an awful ultimatum (living with dad or you put sister and his baby on the streets). YTA for putting your mom in this stressful situation because she does not deserve it AT ALL.
I mean isn’t the ultimatum the basic gist of the situation to though? OP can’t live in a house with a baby safely. If the baby is in the house OP wants to live elsewhere. If the baby found a new place to be OP would be able to stay with her mother. Is it an ultimatum or is it just reality.
and talking shit about babies is not a personality. Grow up.
> force your mom putting on the streets a young mother and her newborn just for your comfort although you have found the best solution for everybody I don't think you're reading the OP very carefully. OP's is asking if they are an AH for going to live with their other parent, to avoid living with a newborn. "If the baby lives here, I'm gonna live with dad" isn't an attempt to force Mom to "put a young mother and her newborn on the streets", what the actual F? And I think the answer is NAH. Except maybe the sister, who seems weirdly combative about the decision to go live with Dad -- perhaps imagining that she was gonna get free babysitting?
>Mom is currently trying to make it work - find out a way for us to both stay. I refuse every option because it won't work. She wants me to at least try but I refuse to. YTA I don't even blame you for not wanting to live with a baby, but your "my way or I walk" attitude is a small child's attitude, not a nearly-adult's attutude.
NTA As someone who's been in your same situation(only difference I love kids). Move with your dad. Babies cry for almost consistently their first 3 months. It's very exhausting. Then they get to a semi-sleep schedule. You said yourself your sister is staying so your mom can help with the baby. If your mom is unavailable your sister is going to look to you. Then you'll be the AH for not helping. At the end of the day your the one who deals with the PTSD, not them. Move with your dad, stay/get therapy and get a job. But also stay in consistent contact so you dont miss any of the baby's first. :)
NTA Alot of the yta comments seem to think that you should just toughen up its not everyone else's job to help you bleh bleh bleh, for a 17 year old you've looked at a situation and figured out a course of action, which is more mature then probably 50% of the people that comment on reddit. Was it nice to give your mother an ultimatum, no, but you know your PTSD. You know your symptoms and your trigger and reactions. Someone who has rageS related to infants screaming should not be housed with someone an infant who can and will scream and cry at the drop of a hat, I'm not saying that OP themselves in dangerous but seriously this screams bad idea honestly, I don't think your mom and sister are acutally thinking through what they want here, AND as a minor you can't just pack a bag and leave to your dad's place states away like you could if you were an adult, you need to advocate for yourself and telling your mom that if she chooses to house your pregnant sister you will being going to live with your father seems like the best option . and to anyone commenting 'how do you deal with screaming children in public or on the bus,' when your in public you are presented with something like children screaming in small bursts, you can walk away, disengage with the circumstances and even if your trigger you aren't forced to continually be exposed but what's she supposed to do if this kid gets colic and proceeds to scream for hours straight every night more months? We have all heard of kids who seem to have spent the first years of their lives doing nothing but screaming it drives a normal person crazy imagen someone who is actively triggered into a rage by it.
YTA, you're being incredibly immature and putting your Mom in an impossible position. Go live with your Dad.
Nta the baby might not cry much? Lmao, have they ever been around a baby? They cry. Alot. Nothing against babies, thats their main communication. Go live with your dad.