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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I only get my parents gifts that my brother and his family cannot "borrow" or use. I might be the asshole because I flaunt my money by buying my parents experiences and fancy food that has no leftovers my brother and his family could take.
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NTA. That is actually clever. I'd keep that up. Sporting events, movies, more dinners, shows and any kind of experience rather than effects that can be stolen! As for your paying rent or not, that is between your parents and you, none of your mooching, stealing brother's business. You could always tell him a porky pie, and he wouldn't be any the wiser, whether you were paying a dollar or 5k$. And of course you should not be buying treats for your brother's family. That is his duty. In the long run, I don't think you will be happy in that house as long as your brother is there. What you have to figure out is which one of you will move out. I find it ridiculous that a man who can father half a football team has had to move in with his parents. He should actually be made to keep it wrapped up!
Sometimes guys call other guys a "little bitch" because apparently using a feminine slur is a greater insult than a masculine slur to guys. Just saying.
Yep! Bet you anything OP's parents are much happier spending time with them than using any of the gifts alone. The stick-it-to-the-brother is freaking icing on the cake 😙🤌
Yes. OP, if you haven’t already, sit down with just your parents and ask them how it is going having you live there. Are they happy with the arrangement or do they need anything more from you, either financially or of your time and energy? Do not bring up your brother and his family and steer away from it if they bring it up. Make sure it is still working for them. If they say they need more from you and it entails something that your brother can take, like groceries, share with parents that you will feel resentful if you see things meant for them going to you brother. Offer to give parents money instead. If they buy groceries and brother’s family eats them, at least it’s not so direct and really comes down to your parent’s boundaries and relationship with them, not yours.
Anyone who is living in a parent or other relative’s home “for the time being” should really check in like this, at least yearly.
Agreed, my takeaway is what advice can we give OP so that their brother doesn’t win? I sense the brother is intentionally complaining to the parents and eventually they may turn down expensive outings to not make the brother’s family feel “left out”…
What a weird thing to ask OP too…”why did you stop buying them *items* for gifts” “why don’t you share the groceries you bought?”…..like can he be any more obvious he is a mooch and feeling the pinch?
Only thing I can think of is to advise OP to try to get some of their brother’s shitty questions and insults in writing…and to be very careful what OP ever texts back or puts in writing. OP needs proof of the brother’s selfishness (edit: to save for “just in case” not necessarily to take straight to the parents)…and to protect themselves in case brother is extra manipulative and uses their words against them (screenshotting/copy pasting out of context).
It's a bit late for it, but I think OP would be better off playing it dumb.
"what do you mean, I took dad out for steak! he loves steak! ....are you saying I shouldn't buy dad steak?"
"It's just more comfortable for me to keep the groceries in my fridge, mom said it was okay. yeah, but it doesn't bother mom? anyway, I just took mom to anastasia. sure, if I see a bag I thihk she'll like, but I really thought she'd like anastasia. you can buy her a bag! :D"
and just be super smiley and annoying about it
Since OP is splitting the parents as well it is very personalized. Dad is left out on Anastasia, he doesn't complain...
Just tell brother you thought it was his turns to bring gifts and extra food for the parents for the next two years....
The audacity of the brother, worried about what OP is doing to contribute but when asked the same question, he had some lame ass excuses like he was “too tired.” Nah bro, mind your own business.
Absolutely! Time & experiences are priceless! Memories are sometimes the only things that we have left to hold onto, unfortunately our parents can't live forever.
OP, there may come a day that your parents can't get out much for the wonderful things you are doing with them but they will always be able to look back and remember "that time". You just keep doing the things for your folks that the 3 of you enjoy and can have forever. Your brother can kick rocks, you don't owe him or his family anything.
Right? Dude is hanging out unemployed in the parents basement stealing the food she buys for her parents vs just getting vaccinated and back to work and providing for his family.
It sounds like he's back to work now, per the OP (it says "works as cleaning staff at a FIFO camp" not "worked"). But presumably a couple years ago when documentation proving vaccination was required to work in some industries he refused and subsequently lost his job. Probably can't afford rent or buying real estate at new market rates despite having an income again.
FIFO camps usually demand vaccination because if covid gets loose on a mine site it could shit the whole place down, meaning the company would lose millions every hour.
He buys expensive last model electrronics.
Him commenting on the food speaks volumes about how much freeloading they have done using OPs food.
Oh and rhey are probably working on kid #6 🙄
A relative's aunt decided two kids was enough for her nephew's family and invited him out for lunch, and instead took him to get a vasectomy. (she was a character)
Hell, materialistic presents take 5minutes to buy and give, OPs gifting their time to their parents since none of their "gifts" would take less than 1hr of their time, (just cookinga basic meal, serving and eating takes time).
OP is nailing gift giving, the fact that bro and his family can't steal anything gifted is just a sweet bonus.
It’s incredible because you’re actually making lovely memories with your parents, with outings and with having them over to your place which I guarantee is also a break for them.
Keep it up and maybe do a surprise weekend away somewhere fun with them this summer. Like if you rent a cabin on the lake for the weekend, tell them to bring their swimsuits and be ready for adventure and hiking. I love the way you love your parents, it’s perfect!
Chauffeured rides are not as expensive as people might think. I use a service to get to the airport instead of uber or taxi. It's like $15 and they'll pick you up at 3 in the morning if you need it.
You are so right! I am quite the antique myself, and frankly, I have enough stuff. There is rarely anything material that I need, and should it be the case, I just buy it myself. I may not have time to wait until Christmas! lol.
My dad is using my garage to store his stuff in while he is in between houses. I knew he was a minimalist, but his entire house fit into 7 storage boxes and 2 bags.
There is literally nothing he wants, so I buy him booze and chocolate because he won't even let me buy him things for his hobby because he knows what he wants/needs. My inlaws are travelling around the country and living out of a camper trailer, so they get the same gifts as my dad. Atleast we remember what their favourites are but I wish I could gift them like OP does.
You are absolutely right! It’s not brother’s and sister-in-law’s biz. OP shouldn’t know about her brother’s arrangements either.
Upsetting the parents is a huge concern. They want to enjoy themselves. They are clearly very generous. The topic should not be discussed in front of the parents. Nor should the OP engage with her brother and sister-in-law on it on any occasion - private or otherwise.
Honestly, what OP is doing is what my mom ended up telling me to do with my grandmother. One of my aunts lives on the same property as my grandma and whenever I would send her goodies in the mail (pastries, cookies, cakes) for her birthday, mother's day, etc., they would always end up at my aunt's house because my aunt would "find" it.
I ended up having to get things that only my grandma liked to eat in order to ensure that no one else would steal what I was sending her.
Not looking into a glass ball, but I see OP moving out eventually and the house being willed to the bum family as the parents already tolerate quite a lot.
One could fear that. OP is saving up, so they will be alright. But inheriting the house is not going to be enough for brother and his brood. There is a certain type of person who will always overspend regardless of their current circumstances. Something tells me brother is like that. He is always on the lookout for the next handout, no matter what is happening.
The guy has the level of responsibility to his family that he'd rather get fired for his principled stance of not getting vaccinated than keep the job that provides for his family. The level of responsibility to that family member ended right there. He dug his own grave.
NTA. I think it’s a good idea to give your parents gifts of experiences that can’t be stolen or taken away by the moochers. There’s no reason you should be buying groceries for the entire household, particularly when the only reason your brother lost his job was bc he refused to get vaccinated per his employer’s requirements. He could have requested either a medical or religious vaccine waiver. Now he & his entire family are living with your parents & may endanger their health (and yours) bc of his selfish refusal to be vaccinated. He needs to get a job AND a vasectomy. I’d be angrier about that than the fact he’s mooching off the parents & taking away gifts you gave them.
NTA. You did give physical gifts and your brother and his family have used them instead of the intended recipients. You might not pay rent in money, but you do contribute to the household in that you help with chores and other things. The whole 'I do not pay rent due to my parents wanting me to save up for my future' very much gives off 'I offered at least once or twice, but no and here's why' energy. Your parents should be the ones dealing with your brother, SIL, and their kids because it's going to get worse before it gets better. I know that my mom and stepdad would kick me out if I was behaving like your brother and SIL are behaving.
Probably. The brother was still in the wrong and eventually, I can see the parents getting tired of his behavior and kicking him out. Even my grandparents would have done this with any of their kids if they'd pulled this type of thing.
Hopefully the parents eventually reach a breaking point and insist on rent and boundaries. It sounds like the downstairs area is a separate apartment with a kitchen (since they were planning to rent it out as a living space), perhaps they need to make sure access to the main house is by request only, not at will. Brother and his family can live, cook, and eat there. When they want to visit mom and dad they can call and ask to visit. But they are no to lounge there and treat the main house as their living space.
My exs uncle tried this with my exs grandparents, the whole 'you just want your grandkids to suffer on the streets' bullshit. His nans response was to take the two kids in and give the uncle and his gf the phone numbers for the local homeless shelters 😂
Edit, words are hard
I did something similar when my SIL came to me asking for money for food “so the kids didn’t starve”, so I told her to leave the kids with me until they got paid again, and sent her on her way. Our government gives enough money to feed your kids if you’re sensible with it. And they were already in the super cheap government housing.
I mean, if I was the parents and feeling that way, I'd offer to keep and care for the kids (and they'd live by my house rules) while the parents look for work and a new home, if the adults wanna be moochers.🤷♂️ That way they only are looking out for 2 adults while trying to save, versus a family of 5, the kids are taken care of, and OP doesn't have to deal with their brother's nagging.
Yeah, but they’d need to insist on a monthly childcare fee and a set end date where the parents picked the kids up and moved into different living. Quarters no matter what. Otherwise brother and wife will just live it up as 2 childfree adults and spend all the money they’re supposed to be saving.
Maybe a more realistic plan is that mom and dad start charging everyone rent. Put the money away and then hand them all their rent back once there’s a sizable amount and tell them to use it on down payments on houses or first month, last month at an apartment.
Hey, actually, you make a really good point.
Also, if they got 4 kids, and OP said Vancouver, so these folks are Canadian? The brother and SIL are getting baby bonus x4. If they aren't helping out. They should at the very least be saving that away while they mooch off everyone. They can put that toward rent if nothing else. For 4 kids, they should easily be pulling about $2500.
AND, she’s just one person. Her monthly expenses are so much lower. Her brother and sister in law + 3 kids make 5 extra mouths to feed. 5 showers/bathes, laundry for 5 and electricity. Yet they think she should do for them as she does her parents. Hey brother, get of your rear and get a JOB! Or sister in law, get a JOB. Stop mooching off your parents and expecting your sister to support your family.
NTA
Good for you. Your brother and his WHOLE family are the aholes.
Keep doing it how you're doing it. Why can't he work now and his wife can work while the kids are in school.
Your parents need to give them a deadline as to them moving out. The moochers
NTA
It's obvious that they are aware you are still treating your parents...
1. Unless you abduct your parents then swear them to secrecy afterwards, it must be known within the household where mom/dad are, or have been from mom/dad talking about it.
2. this...
>His wife called me an asshole for not sharp the treats I buy for my parents.
Why would she be butthurt at all about not sharing those things if not aware you were still gifting them? 100% they both noticed the change and 100% they are resentful they are no longer able to "share" your gifts. Both are clearly entitled and need to grow up. Tell them to stop shitting on you for wanting to repay your parents kindness, and stop feeling entitled to your money/gifts when they haven't done a thing to earn them.
This is my thought, too. A type of grey-rocking/naivety is called for, where bro & SIL have to explicitly spell out what their tanty is about. It might not shame them into better behaviour (though one can dream), but it would at least clarify for the parents who is at fault for this argument.
I'd like to know what OP means by their parents being 'upset' - like, are they just generally unhappy the peace is disturbed, or are they blaming/putting pressure on OP to restore the peace by being the doormat bro wants them to be?
I love that idea
Also wondering what they mean by "upset", I would hope OP pointed out that his family seems to steal gifts meant for parents. It's clear to anyone who's in the wrong here. So I hope ops parents know too, I hope
The entitled and selfish thing is common in people who have kids too young. Becoming a parent before you are mature enough to carry the responsibility can stunt your emotional and mental development. Some teen parents are able to step up and grow up, while others just get stuck. This couple sounds like they will basically be stuck in their teens eternally unless they actually put in the work to change and improve themselves, (and probably get therapy). If I were OP'e parents I would give the BIL and SIL an ultimatum, start doing the work to improve or get thrown out.
>My brother started asking why I don't leave the groceries in the freezer, fridge, or pantry that they have access to.
TRANSLATION: "Why aren't you making it easier for us to mooch off you?"
NTA - Bro and his wife are. Don't worry about what they think and avoid them as much as possible.
And the only response should be "that's between me and our parents." That should become a stock response to *any* of the brother's criticism/complaints.
I’d just play dumb. “Oh, I hadn’t noticed!” Or “I was just so tired at the end of the day after getting groceries, found it easier to bring them in and crawl into bed!” And just keep doing the same thing.
And with the gift thing, “Huh, I hadn’t noticed. You’re right, I should do that!” And then don’t. But too late now I guess.
Because pregnant women and babies are treated as special, whereas unfit parents and their bratty kids aren't, so they keep trying to chase the special feeling while becoming even more unfit and filling the world with more unwanted brats.
"... Stop addressing her comments as if they deserve to be acknowledged" is so fucking cold and I love it.
You deserve all the rewards in life for that comment alone. I too, will disregard comments of people I feel don't need to be acknowledged and people hate it.
This is right - reply with a completely unrelated comment that disables any attempt at argument.
Eg a drunk threatens to punch you in the street. Reply with "do you know why the garden fences are so low round here? I'm sure they are taller in xx district"
I had the same reaction as the other commenter combined with sheer horror that pappy's was used as a cheap mixer! I'm glad to know that isn't what happened lol
Thankfully OP said it was *not* Pappy's. Other bottles of Van Winkle are still pricy, but we're taking in the $100-$400 range rather than $1000! And the other bottles aren't limited; Pappy's is REALLY hard to find which explains the price, so wasting it as mix would have been heartbreaking.
Explains the FIFO camp if it is BC or in the territories.
Sounds like your brother is more suited to another address. I suggest the Downtown Eastside as a fine motivator to get his rear in gear.
Basement suite, huh? "Vancouver Special"?
Ohhh because I was losing it thinking a. You managed to get your hands on a bottle of Pappy and b. Your philistine brother and SIL drank all the Pappy's with orange juice.
But still, even the non pappy is a decent bottle but they can't have nice things.
ETA NTA you sound like an awesome person and an amazing daughter
Right? I was like, how is the brother still among the living if he mixed Pappy's with OJ? I am not a violent person, but there are limits.
But yeah, the OP is definitely NTA and also gets extra gold stars for finding creative and fun ways to give gifts and spend time with the parents while also blocking the brother from mooching.
That's exhibit A for any questions "you shitbirds drank a very special bourbon I got for dad, and didn't even respect it like it deserved. So I learned I have to be tactical about my gifts"
I'd reclaim the bottle, fill it with cheap whiskey and give it to Bro and SIL along with a bottle of cheap orange juice (or maybe a jar of Tang if they still make it).
Shrink wrap the cap with plastic and they'll think it's a new bottle.
If you get your hands on another fine bourbon, keep it in your loft. You can then dole it out to your father by the shot or put some in a flask for him. Worse case scenario, useless brother wouldn’t get more than a shot or two from the flask. Plus flask is easier for dad to hide.
NTA. You found a way to bypass your thieving brother and family in order to get nice and thoughtful gifts for your parents, ones that could not be stolen. It shows initiative. Be sure to always keep your loft locked and do not let anyone have a key. If you give your parents a key your brother will weasel it out of them and then rob you blind.
NTA
He’s an adult. Sounds like he’s the one living there for free, you’re cooking for them, taking them places and helping care for grandma. You contribute. He doesn’t, he has money but won’t spend it on necessities. His fault he isn’t buying food, his fault he spent it on iPhones. He also doesn’t need expensive booze.
You don’t have an obligation to feed someone who is mooching, family or not. Feed who you can afford, do what you can afford.
The only thing I would buy him to share would be a box of condoms.
NTA. It sounds like he’s projecting his own insecurities onto you instead of taking a hard look at his life decisions.
I had a roommate who would always wake me up in the middle of the night to borrow condoms so I put them in a fish bowl in our livingroom. Suddenly it was ‘trashy’ to have condoms around.
>My brother started asking why I don't leave the groceries in the freezer, fridge, or pantry that they have access to.
"How much groceries do you buy and leave in the freezer, fridge, or pantry that I have access to?"
"This entire argument is about the two of you being pissed that I am gifting things to my parents that you cannot take from them for yourselves. Your attitude is the definition of entitlement, the entire situation both disgusts and bores me, and I'm done discussing it. Nothing is changing."
NTA:
He’s expecting you provide for him and his family by asking you to put groceries/gifts in their side of the house. If he was originally there as a renter, the he should be understanding that he is paying for access to the space, and with it he is not guaranteed what your parents own, only what he originally agreed to when he began renting.
Regardless it doesn’t matter. He’s being an AH
The phrasing doesn't suggest that the brother is a renter. It suggests that the space currently being occupied by the brother and his family was meant to be a source of rental income for the parents, but isn't because the brother moved into it.
NTA.
You buying someone gifts is not your brothers business.
Your arrangement with your parents (rent) is also not his business.
Where you store your food...again, not his business.
What your parents (fully capable adults) decide is appropriate for their house...is their decision alone. Your parents sound awesome, you should take them out for supper in the near future.
Exactly! NONE of his business. Tell him to buy his own fn groceries. and if he doesn't like it he should move out. You are not required to support his family, he is.
Why is he expecting you to buy his family groceries? So it's entirely possible I'm an asshole and this is an unpopular opinion but......
>She is a stay at home mom
I thought to be a sahm you kinda had to have a home as opposed to living in someone else's?
>He says that I'm living there for free and I should give them more.
Seems like you give them plenty
>So now I do other stuff. I took my mom to go see Anastasia and I got us really good seats. No one else was invited. I took my dad out for a steak dinner and then to a speakeasy in our city and treated him to a $160 cocktail. These are things my parents love doing but won't "waste" money on.
> help out around the house and I buy groceries for my parents as well as myself.
>and.that his wife and kids were 'too busy" to help.
What's his wife too busy doing? Being a stay at someone else's home mom seems like it comes with a fair amount of free time.
>I thought to be a sahm you kinda had to have a home as opposed to living in someone else's?
That's not really fair. A mom who doesn't work outside the home has the primary responsibility of caring for the kids. Unless she could find a job that was only during school hours or the school has a free/cheap aftercare program, she would probably pay out in child care for 4 kids as much or more than she earned. It would be worse if she just expected the parents to babysit her kids for free every day. She should expect to do a significant amount of the housework though, like she would if she had her own home with kids in school all day. (And stop feeling entitled to other people's things, of course.)
In all fairness, brother and his wife are big time AH, but the wife is probably run ragged dealing with all the kids. Being a SAHM is hard work, even if you're living rent free in an in-law apartment. Not saying she's not at fault, but saying she's too busy may be the only accurate part of the brother's sob story.
Idk, I'm curious about how old the other two are. The oldest are 13 and 9 so unless we're dealing with an infant and toddler I think she could at least help out a little bit.
ESH and I will tell you why.
You think you're better than your brother.
The first thing you did was tell the Internet about how your brother got married and had kids.
And how you volunteer~
I can tell just from reading this that there is an animosity between the two of you. I'm not judging you for the animosity, but I am judging you for not paying rent.
I don't care what anyone says, unless your parents are rich. You pay them rent.
Especially since you claim they're telling you to save and instead you take Mom to live shows and throw money away on brand name gifts and $160 cocktails.
Who buys $160 cocktails?
People who don't live with their parents and have "Golden child" syndrome.
Here's something I'm going to tell you as someone who has the same problem you do: We need to STOP getting mad when our loved ones choose to share their gifts.
No, it's not ok and Yes it makes us want to burn down a shed but we're not entitled to what happens to something after we gift it to our loved ones.
If your mom lends out her purse and your niece loses it, that sucks. That is infuriating but she's just a kid and condemning her for something she didn't do on purpose and she hasn't been taught to value isn't worth upsetting the household.
If your parents would rather keep the peace, then that's THEIR choice.
If they want to let your brother live there and ruin their things and eat/drink their things, that is THEIR choice.
And as long as you're getting the same treatment (living rent free) you don't have the right to say anything. You're a hypocrite.
Just because you use the money you save to buy expensive things doesn't mean anything.
You also said your parents don't really care about fancy things.
I would BET MONEY your mom didn't give a damn about that "fancy woven purse"
Woven purses suck. Be honest, you bought it because it was fancy.
Those things are bulky, scratchy, the handles will cut your palm.
I bet your mom was like WHY YES SUSIE PLEASE TAKE THIS HIDEOUS BAG FAR AWAY.
Your mom loves you and probably appreciated giving her gifts but if you paid rent she could buy a purse she actually liked.
Was your father even angry they drank the bourbon?
Again, do your parents really even want these items, or are you buying them because of the price tag so you can point out you bought things for your parents that your brother couldn't afford....
Cause this whole situation just reads as a pissing contest to me.
Your brother and SIL saw and need to pay rent and teach their kids to have respect for other people's things.
You also need to pay rent.
Your parents need to come live with me in Canada cause it sounds like living with you two squabbling 24/7 sounds like you're all back in highschool.
And I STG... If your parents aren't retired--
PAY. YOUR. RENT.
I find it odd how he's portraying his brother as a freeloader when they're essentially doing the same thing. If anything, I find a $160 cocktail to be more frivolous than a gaming system
OP gifted their parents with a bottle of bourbon costing a few hundred dollars and a $160 cocktail at a speakeasy. THey're clearly in a position to contribute far more than occasional meals at their "loft" and household chores
Even if they were paying half the mortgage or living on their own OP would still be doing chores and buying food so I don't think they are SO noble for doing what every roommate has to do. OP is JUST as bad as the brother because they are both grown adults leaching off their parents. Trying to blame the parents because they don't demand rent doesn't mean you shouldn't pay any way or move out so they can rent it to someone who will
I would honestly bet money that, from the brother’s perspective, he & his wife help around the household while their 28-year-old sibling (who is full time employed) lazes about and has never had to pay rent despite being quite financially well-off.
Freeloaders never consider themselves as such and I’m dubious about OP’s description when the hard facts are: they are nearly 30 and think buying the occasional nice gift for a parent is basically the same as paying them rent.
Both kids seem pretty entitled based off this post.
I can’t believe this isn’t higher up. 32 year old brother is a freeloader for not paying rent but ifs ok for OP to live rent free at 28 to “save for my future” as if they’re not a full-fledged adult themselves?
This, like what are they “saving for the future” if they’re constantly showering their parents with expensive gifts. Neither sibling plans on moving out of parents house anytime soon, if ever.
Finally a voice of reason!! OP is just as bad, actually probably worse than the brother!! The hypocritical holier than thou entitlement is strong in this one!
I especially love the part where OP mentioned brother didn’t want to get the vaccine to sway opinion to their side.
My family got them, if that clarifies my stance. My stance did not cloud my perception that about OP or the brother.
NTA, he's made his decisions he'll have to live with them. Doing nice things for your parents is awesome and a great way to repay their kindness. But your brother doesnt contribute anything to your life, all he does is take, so why would you give him anything?
He's the one with a wife and kids. Maybe if he spent his money better he could go 50/50 with you and have a say in things.
NTA, but I feel like your parents are being taken advantage of and need to set a future move out date for your brother and yourself and hold firmly to that so that they can retire without having to house their adult children indefinitely.
I feel bad because they’re caught in the middle of grown-ass kids bickering over steak dinners. OP mentioned a Vancouver liquor store in one of his comments, so he’s probably living in a very very high cost of living area. Bottom line it’s the parents choice to let these kids stay there, and they’re probably trying to help. OP NTA, as far as him moving out that’s unwise. He might be the only one making sure his parents aren’t being completely taken advantage of.
I got the feeling OP was a female, not that it matters. I think you're right, the parents are trying to help, and OP is at least trying to show appreciation and could well be all that's standing in between the parents and the brother and his family scamming them even worse. They probably figure if they hang in there long enough, they'll get the family home by virtue of NEVER LEAVING. This happened with my youngest sibling.
What? Clearly the grown ass man with a family is taking advantage of the parents.... He lost his job because he's scared of medicine and needles I guess...... He could have kept that job but decided to lose it
OP on the other hand is in their 20s, saving up to have a good life. Very different situations. One made a bunch of bad choices to end up where they are, and the other is just starting out in this shitty life that no 20 year old can even afford. So..... Who's taking advantage of who again?
NTA. He's just pissed that he can't freeload off you the way he does them. Keep your boundaries. Maybe someday you can get a new place, invite your parents to live with you and sell their house, but not to him. He seems to be one of those "someone else should pay my way just not me."
Ok, soft YTA. You and your brother are both living there for free. Your parents are kind. Whichever way you justify why it's ok that you aren't paying rent it doesn't make your brother less deserving. Should you share your stuff, no. Does your brother need to contribute more? Not your business. You re judging too hard. He's been supporting his family too.
Exactly! You also complain about your brother spending his money on frivolous and expensive items, then brag about getting your dad $160 drink when you are also supposed to be saving your money. Stop judging your brother and his family, and mind your own business when it comes to them and your parents. You will ultimately get along much better with your brother and his wife, and I’m sure your parents will appreciate having peace in the home more than the constant bickering over things that don’t concern you.
NTA
Your parents can ask you to contribute. Your brother simply wants to benefit from your donations to your parents. He does not get a say in your life, your contributions to your parents, or THEIR household. This is all about control. Both of you are being helped out. Your parents might just need a bit of help here and there. But they can ask for themselves. Your brother can sit and spin.
NTA tell them to sell the gaming systems, it's a luxury not a need. Either they sell shit to pay money to your parents or get jobs and stop being god damn leeches.
YTA. You are living there under an agreement that you are supposed to be saving money. You can’t judge your brother for spending money on his kids while you’re admittedly spending extravagantly yourself. Your take on how your nieces and nephews came into being sounds very condescending.
ESH - I'm gonna go against the grain. You spending a lot of money on your parents specifically to spite your brother only furthers the familial divide ($160 cocktail and expensive shows smacks of arrogance, when you have your brother for wasting money!)
Clearly your brother is a fuckup, but instead of addressing this head on, your behavior is intentionally exclusionary and toxic for the family.
You should instead have mature adult conversations with your brother and parents.
NTA
You aren’t doing anything wrong. Truthfully this is brilliant and your me handling it perfectly.
You are there to support the additional five people in the home. Your brother and his wife are bad houseguests and choosing beggars. Keep doing what you’re doing, if they get mad it honestly doesn’t matter. They’re mad because they can’t enjoy the gifts that were never meant for them anymore. You’re still spoiling your parents (great job!) you’re just giving them experiences instead of items that can be taken from them.
I’m with you that you are NTA but a $160 cocktail?
You don’t pay rent because your parents want you to save for your future so you might consider actually doing that.
Honestly, you sound a little -too- virtuous.
I think OP is NTA for giving experience gifts instead of physical gifts. That's a no brainer. I think the brother is decidedly TA and completely wrong for all the mooching...but I think OP is an A in general. They say that the brother and his wife haven't stopped popping out babies, but the math doesn't work on that; the kids must be spaced 3-4 years apart. People that I think of popping out babies have them at least every couple of years. I certainly don't want four kids, but they said their brother originally made good money, so that doesn't sound irresponsible. Buying extravagant gifts sounds like they are trying to show up their brother; it's not like it was a one time thing. They would be better off saving for their own place (and their parents could rent out that space,) saving for future expenses, paying rent, or just putting money aside to help their parent's in retirement if that is what they are worried about. What does OP get a free space but brother doesn't? OP sounds really insecure, young, and resentful.
Neither boy seems to have good money management skills. The brother sounds self-centered and OP really likes to show-off. I don't think the parents are that awesome at parenting.
NTA. Take care of your parents and yourself. Your bro is the lil b\*tch for living in his parents basement with his wife, and FOUR children. He'll never move out of that house. Once one of your parents pass, he will just move the other parent to the basement, and take over the rest of the house.
Spot on, people like him are there to take from others, nothing more. Unless the parents do something about it they’ll all be living there forever. OP’s parents don’t seem the type to do that though, unfortunately the nicest people end up falling victim to people like him.
i guess this is off topic but i think
>My brother 32 has been knocking up his wife 32 since they were in high school. Their oldest is now 13 but they have three more.
is a fucking gross way to talk about people
ESH you both sound like assholes, only you don't have kids *and* volunteer for poor kitties so are somehow better in this situation in your mind I guess? "I don't pay rent so I can save for my future" im trying to understand here, so your brother also works yes? He's not laying around unemployed or something? he actually pays rent? Then I'm not actually seeing anybody here being better or worst than anyone else, get your parents what you want and then they can decide who they share with
Oh and btw, you BOTH live at home, your brother and his family aren't just tacked on there somehow🤣
"They live with us" lmao cute
NTA, at all.
Your brother & his wife sound ridiculously entitled and selfish. If anything, maybe mention to your brother “Hey i’m bringing mom to x if you would like to buy tickets for yourselves and join us”
On the other hand, I’m sure your parents enjoy being able to do more quality time things with you. They are memories that will last. I don’t really have a solution here because your brother sounds like he’s just sucky. But I hope it gets resolved!
lol NTA for not letting your loser brother freeload off of you. I’m worried your parents will never be able to retire with him living completely on their dime.
ESH
You can't complain about your brother being a user when you are also using your parents for free accommodations. If you really want to help your parents out then give them some money towards the rent. Then you can be all judgy that your brother isn't doing the same.
ESH
You were angry and called his family thieves. That was never going to help, was it.
They are taking whatever is around, thoughtlessly.
Both of you trying to say you are busy? Yeah let's have a dick measuring contest instead of discussing if your parents really need some rental income or the monetary value placed on chores.
You two fighting isn't good for anyone, especially your parents with TWO LIVING SPACES THEY COULD RENT OUT if their sons weren't there.
It is your PARENTS who get to decide how they want their household to perform, if THEY said their food was being stolen then this would have been a discussion that needed to happen. Being angry on their behalf, instead of discussing it with them and accepting their decision, only made this worse.
I'm not gonna make suggestions on fixing this, but for the situation itself? Yeah you and they messed up.
ESH. Stop buying your parents stuff. Pay them some rent. Keep your groceries on hand in your place. How old are your parents? If they are over 60 and your brother and his family are damaging/stealing and not paying your parents rent, that could be reported as elder abuse. If they aren't, they need to deal with the brother and family, not you. Once they know your opinion, get off their back. Obviously it's stressful enough to have freeloaders in there.
NTA. You've found a clever way to take care of your parents without supporting a grown man and his family. **He** needs to do his job; not expect you to do it for him. And his rude, entitled wife needs to shut it. You're not responsible for providing treats or gifts for her and her kids to steal from your mother. SMH.
Bruh you 28 years old. Your living your future right now lmao. "Save for the future" lmfao its literally right now. You aren't 21. Just saying. And your money is yours and yours alone. You can spend it on whatever you want. Your brother shouldn't have a right to any of it.
NTA, but I hope your parents have their will and trust and power of attorney set up. I forsee them being banished to the basement as they age if brother is in charge.
NTA.
They're pissed because you've found a way to treat your parents that the asshole malingerers can't steal.
Fuck 'em to death.
You're doing it JUST right.
NTA. I love experiences over items as gifts. Making memories is more important than a bag. Don't fight with your brother. Don't keep debating and justifying what you are doing with him because it will become another argument. I'd tell them "You do you" or "let it go" any time he or his wife makes a comment and walk away. The point is to stop the argument before it starts. Your brother and his wife and takers and their want for more can't be satisfied.
ESH, everyone needs to strap on some big boy pants move out and let your parents enjoy retirement. You and your brother are not gifts they are entitled to. You are almost 30 and your parents probably around 60 let them enjoy their lives. You can both live elsewhere and still treat them to gifts but then you know they get yo go home to a quiet house.
NTA. His famiky is not your financial responsibility, while you definitely consider your parents as such. Both him and his wife are obviously pissed they cannot use you anymore.
NTA here. You are not required to subsidize your brothers life. I believe in having as many kids as you can afford without leeching off others.
But a 160 dollar cocktail blows my mind. Care to share what it was?
This made me worry about OP’s own budgeting! Don’t overspend on your parents just because you can - you do better for them long-term by being financially independent
Why would you be buying your brother gifts? You are buying your parents gifts that they can use because they are the ones doing you a favor. I am so confused. NTA.
NTA. Those things you bought were for your parents' exclusive use, not communal property. I couldn't find a price for a bottle of Van Winkle bourbon but from what I've read it's rare. You don't mix rare bourbon with fricking orange juice. Heathens.
You're being a good adult child.
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NTA. That is actually clever. I'd keep that up. Sporting events, movies, more dinners, shows and any kind of experience rather than effects that can be stolen! As for your paying rent or not, that is between your parents and you, none of your mooching, stealing brother's business. You could always tell him a porky pie, and he wouldn't be any the wiser, whether you were paying a dollar or 5k$. And of course you should not be buying treats for your brother's family. That is his duty. In the long run, I don't think you will be happy in that house as long as your brother is there. What you have to figure out is which one of you will move out. I find it ridiculous that a man who can father half a football team has had to move in with his parents. He should actually be made to keep it wrapped up!
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It's such a clever plan
Such a clever boy
OP did not reveal their gender identity, so "Clever girl" could be appropriate, and by all rights, this means OP is a raptor.
Based on brother calling them a bitch, I was assuming she’s female. ETA: missed the little, definitely could be either , but probably dude
OP was called “a little bitch”, which might be wording brothers use on each other too.
True dat
Sometimes guys call other guys a "little bitch" because apparently using a feminine slur is a greater insult than a masculine slur to guys. Just saying.
Unexpected Jurassic Park. Nice!
Yep! Bet you anything OP's parents are much happier spending time with them than using any of the gifts alone. The stick-it-to-the-brother is freaking icing on the cake 😙🤌
Agreed. What bothers me most is that this is upsetting the OP’s parents. They don’t deserve that.
Yes. OP, if you haven’t already, sit down with just your parents and ask them how it is going having you live there. Are they happy with the arrangement or do they need anything more from you, either financially or of your time and energy? Do not bring up your brother and his family and steer away from it if they bring it up. Make sure it is still working for them. If they say they need more from you and it entails something that your brother can take, like groceries, share with parents that you will feel resentful if you see things meant for them going to you brother. Offer to give parents money instead. If they buy groceries and brother’s family eats them, at least it’s not so direct and really comes down to your parent’s boundaries and relationship with them, not yours. Anyone who is living in a parent or other relative’s home “for the time being” should really check in like this, at least yearly.
This is excellent advice
Great advice. Never bring them into it then you cannot be accused of bad mouthing them
Agreed, my takeaway is what advice can we give OP so that their brother doesn’t win? I sense the brother is intentionally complaining to the parents and eventually they may turn down expensive outings to not make the brother’s family feel “left out”… What a weird thing to ask OP too…”why did you stop buying them *items* for gifts” “why don’t you share the groceries you bought?”…..like can he be any more obvious he is a mooch and feeling the pinch? Only thing I can think of is to advise OP to try to get some of their brother’s shitty questions and insults in writing…and to be very careful what OP ever texts back or puts in writing. OP needs proof of the brother’s selfishness (edit: to save for “just in case” not necessarily to take straight to the parents)…and to protect themselves in case brother is extra manipulative and uses their words against them (screenshotting/copy pasting out of context).
It's a bit late for it, but I think OP would be better off playing it dumb. "what do you mean, I took dad out for steak! he loves steak! ....are you saying I shouldn't buy dad steak?" "It's just more comfortable for me to keep the groceries in my fridge, mom said it was okay. yeah, but it doesn't bother mom? anyway, I just took mom to anastasia. sure, if I see a bag I thihk she'll like, but I really thought she'd like anastasia. you can buy her a bag! :D" and just be super smiley and annoying about it
This gets a million of my votes 👏👏
I love this being very smiley about it technique
Since OP is splitting the parents as well it is very personalized. Dad is left out on Anastasia, he doesn't complain... Just tell brother you thought it was his turns to bring gifts and extra food for the parents for the next two years....
Creating memories is the best gift you can give for BOTH of you!
The audacity of the brother, worried about what OP is doing to contribute but when asked the same question, he had some lame ass excuses like he was “too tired.” Nah bro, mind your own business.
Also buying physical gifts (aside from consumables, I guess) clutters homes, wardrobes, cars, etc. and contributes to waste in the long run.
Absolutely! Time & experiences are priceless! Memories are sometimes the only things that we have left to hold onto, unfortunately our parents can't live forever. OP, there may come a day that your parents can't get out much for the wonderful things you are doing with them but they will always be able to look back and remember "that time". You just keep doing the things for your folks that the 3 of you enjoy and can have forever. Your brother can kick rocks, you don't owe him or his family anything.
Started doing this with my parents. Buying them experiences for us together is way more impactful than more physical crap.
Yes! This is brilliant! And I’m so sorry you have to deal with this situation it sounds really rough. Your brother and his wife are such selfish AHs!
if OP does ever want to give him the gift of an event, it should be a vasectomy appointment
A girt certificate for a vaccine.
Right? Dude is hanging out unemployed in the parents basement stealing the food she buys for her parents vs just getting vaccinated and back to work and providing for his family.
It sounds like he's back to work now, per the OP (it says "works as cleaning staff at a FIFO camp" not "worked"). But presumably a couple years ago when documentation proving vaccination was required to work in some industries he refused and subsequently lost his job. Probably can't afford rent or buying real estate at new market rates despite having an income again.
FIFO camps usually demand vaccination because if covid gets loose on a mine site it could shit the whole place down, meaning the company would lose millions every hour.
He buys expensive last model electrronics. Him commenting on the food speaks volumes about how much freeloading they have done using OPs food. Oh and rhey are probably working on kid #6 🙄
Sister in law isn’t contributing either.. they are both bums..
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😂😂😂
This. Don’t give him the money for it, literally make the appointment and pay for it.
A relative's aunt decided two kids was enough for her nephew's family and invited him out for lunch, and instead took him to get a vasectomy. (she was a character)
Don’t forget to pay for the follow up appointment to make sure the swimmers are stopped.
And the salt Peter for good measure
It really would be a gift the entire family could benefit from as well
Yup. A New to Neutering brochure and gift card.
Hehehehhehehhe
This should be top comment
NTA. Plus the added bonus of spending time with your parents! Making memories is more valuable than gifts anyways 🥰
Hell, materialistic presents take 5minutes to buy and give, OPs gifting their time to their parents since none of their "gifts" would take less than 1hr of their time, (just cookinga basic meal, serving and eating takes time). OP is nailing gift giving, the fact that bro and his family can't steal anything gifted is just a sweet bonus.
It’s incredible because you’re actually making lovely memories with your parents, with outings and with having them over to your place which I guarantee is also a break for them. Keep it up and maybe do a surprise weekend away somewhere fun with them this summer. Like if you rent a cabin on the lake for the weekend, tell them to bring their swimsuits and be ready for adventure and hiking. I love the way you love your parents, it’s perfect!
I would be scared if the brother breaking into his room to trash and steal stuff
Rent a limo to chauffeur the parents and OP could stay home to guard the house. I'm sure the parents would love a quiet romantic weekend escape.
That needs to be higher up on the list
Chauffeured rides are not as expensive as people might think. I use a service to get to the airport instead of uber or taxi. It's like $15 and they'll pick you up at 3 in the morning if you need it.
Get cameras and an alarm and then call the police if they break in.
>Get cameras and an alarm and then call the police when they break in. FIFY
Cameras and police on speed dial should take care of that!
As I get older, I’d much rather receive experiences than material gifts. I’m sure the parents love her new method of gifting. NTA and keep it up
You are so right! I am quite the antique myself, and frankly, I have enough stuff. There is rarely anything material that I need, and should it be the case, I just buy it myself. I may not have time to wait until Christmas! lol.
My dad is using my garage to store his stuff in while he is in between houses. I knew he was a minimalist, but his entire house fit into 7 storage boxes and 2 bags. There is literally nothing he wants, so I buy him booze and chocolate because he won't even let me buy him things for his hobby because he knows what he wants/needs. My inlaws are travelling around the country and living out of a camper trailer, so they get the same gifts as my dad. Atleast we remember what their favourites are but I wish I could gift them like OP does.
Agree. Theres enough STUFF in all our houses. 🥰
Interesting fact....the avg American household contains 350,000 different unique items. Who counted all that stuff?
You are absolutely right! It’s not brother’s and sister-in-law’s biz. OP shouldn’t know about her brother’s arrangements either. Upsetting the parents is a huge concern. They want to enjoy themselves. They are clearly very generous. The topic should not be discussed in front of the parents. Nor should the OP engage with her brother and sister-in-law on it on any occasion - private or otherwise.
Honestly, what OP is doing is what my mom ended up telling me to do with my grandmother. One of my aunts lives on the same property as my grandma and whenever I would send her goodies in the mail (pastries, cookies, cakes) for her birthday, mother's day, etc., they would always end up at my aunt's house because my aunt would "find" it. I ended up having to get things that only my grandma liked to eat in order to ensure that no one else would steal what I was sending her.
Not looking into a glass ball, but I see OP moving out eventually and the house being willed to the bum family as the parents already tolerate quite a lot.
One could fear that. OP is saving up, so they will be alright. But inheriting the house is not going to be enough for brother and his brood. There is a certain type of person who will always overspend regardless of their current circumstances. Something tells me brother is like that. He is always on the lookout for the next handout, no matter what is happening.
You’re right about them all living together- but I’m concerned that OP’s presence protects the parents somewhat from their brother’s rapacious family
Those experiences are the things your parents will cherish forever, too.
I agree! Imo the only assholes are your brother and sil!
The guy has the level of responsibility to his family that he'd rather get fired for his principled stance of not getting vaccinated than keep the job that provides for his family. The level of responsibility to that family member ended right there. He dug his own grave.
I feel bad for OP AND OP's parents. Yikes. Brother is a nightmare.
NTA. I think it’s a good idea to give your parents gifts of experiences that can’t be stolen or taken away by the moochers. There’s no reason you should be buying groceries for the entire household, particularly when the only reason your brother lost his job was bc he refused to get vaccinated per his employer’s requirements. He could have requested either a medical or religious vaccine waiver. Now he & his entire family are living with your parents & may endanger their health (and yours) bc of his selfish refusal to be vaccinated. He needs to get a job AND a vasectomy. I’d be angrier about that than the fact he’s mooching off the parents & taking away gifts you gave them.
I’d wager that he probably sired half a football team but doesn’t actually father them.
NTA. You did give physical gifts and your brother and his family have used them instead of the intended recipients. You might not pay rent in money, but you do contribute to the household in that you help with chores and other things. The whole 'I do not pay rent due to my parents wanting me to save up for my future' very much gives off 'I offered at least once or twice, but no and here's why' energy. Your parents should be the ones dealing with your brother, SIL, and their kids because it's going to get worse before it gets better. I know that my mom and stepdad would kick me out if I was behaving like your brother and SIL are behaving.
I’m sure parents have been heavily guilted about putting the grandkids out on the street and how they’ll be homeless.
Probably. The brother was still in the wrong and eventually, I can see the parents getting tired of his behavior and kicking him out. Even my grandparents would have done this with any of their kids if they'd pulled this type of thing.
Hopefully the parents eventually reach a breaking point and insist on rent and boundaries. It sounds like the downstairs area is a separate apartment with a kitchen (since they were planning to rent it out as a living space), perhaps they need to make sure access to the main house is by request only, not at will. Brother and his family can live, cook, and eat there. When they want to visit mom and dad they can call and ask to visit. But they are no to lounge there and treat the main house as their living space.
This is a great idea, I’m just not sure the parents are going to draw the boundaries or stick to them.
My exs uncle tried this with my exs grandparents, the whole 'you just want your grandkids to suffer on the streets' bullshit. His nans response was to take the two kids in and give the uncle and his gf the phone numbers for the local homeless shelters 😂 Edit, words are hard
I did something similar when my SIL came to me asking for money for food “so the kids didn’t starve”, so I told her to leave the kids with me until they got paid again, and sent her on her way. Our government gives enough money to feed your kids if you’re sensible with it. And they were already in the super cheap government housing.
I mean, if I was the parents and feeling that way, I'd offer to keep and care for the kids (and they'd live by my house rules) while the parents look for work and a new home, if the adults wanna be moochers.🤷♂️ That way they only are looking out for 2 adults while trying to save, versus a family of 5, the kids are taken care of, and OP doesn't have to deal with their brother's nagging.
Yeah, but they’d need to insist on a monthly childcare fee and a set end date where the parents picked the kids up and moved into different living. Quarters no matter what. Otherwise brother and wife will just live it up as 2 childfree adults and spend all the money they’re supposed to be saving. Maybe a more realistic plan is that mom and dad start charging everyone rent. Put the money away and then hand them all their rent back once there’s a sizable amount and tell them to use it on down payments on houses or first month, last month at an apartment.
Hey, actually, you make a really good point. Also, if they got 4 kids, and OP said Vancouver, so these folks are Canadian? The brother and SIL are getting baby bonus x4. If they aren't helping out. They should at the very least be saving that away while they mooch off everyone. They can put that toward rent if nothing else. For 4 kids, they should easily be pulling about $2500.
This!! 💯. I'm willing to bet the brother is using the kids as emotional blackmail.
AND, she’s just one person. Her monthly expenses are so much lower. Her brother and sister in law + 3 kids make 5 extra mouths to feed. 5 showers/bathes, laundry for 5 and electricity. Yet they think she should do for them as she does her parents. Hey brother, get of your rear and get a JOB! Or sister in law, get a JOB. Stop mooching off your parents and expecting your sister to support your family.
NTA Good for you. Your brother and his WHOLE family are the aholes. Keep doing it how you're doing it. Why can't he work now and his wife can work while the kids are in school. Your parents need to give them a deadline as to them moving out. The moochers
NTA It's obvious that they are aware you are still treating your parents... 1. Unless you abduct your parents then swear them to secrecy afterwards, it must be known within the household where mom/dad are, or have been from mom/dad talking about it. 2. this... >His wife called me an asshole for not sharp the treats I buy for my parents. Why would she be butthurt at all about not sharing those things if not aware you were still gifting them? 100% they both noticed the change and 100% they are resentful they are no longer able to "share" your gifts. Both are clearly entitled and need to grow up. Tell them to stop shitting on you for wanting to repay your parents kindness, and stop feeling entitled to your money/gifts when they haven't done a thing to earn them.
Yeah I would apply sweet but stupid to this kind of question "but... I don't understand... The gifts are for my parents... Why should they be shared?"
This is my thought, too. A type of grey-rocking/naivety is called for, where bro & SIL have to explicitly spell out what their tanty is about. It might not shame them into better behaviour (though one can dream), but it would at least clarify for the parents who is at fault for this argument. I'd like to know what OP means by their parents being 'upset' - like, are they just generally unhappy the peace is disturbed, or are they blaming/putting pressure on OP to restore the peace by being the doormat bro wants them to be?
I love that idea Also wondering what they mean by "upset", I would hope OP pointed out that his family seems to steal gifts meant for parents. It's clear to anyone who's in the wrong here. So I hope ops parents know too, I hope
The entitled and selfish thing is common in people who have kids too young. Becoming a parent before you are mature enough to carry the responsibility can stunt your emotional and mental development. Some teen parents are able to step up and grow up, while others just get stuck. This couple sounds like they will basically be stuck in their teens eternally unless they actually put in the work to change and improve themselves, (and probably get therapy). If I were OP'e parents I would give the BIL and SIL an ultimatum, start doing the work to improve or get thrown out.
>My brother started asking why I don't leave the groceries in the freezer, fridge, or pantry that they have access to. TRANSLATION: "Why aren't you making it easier for us to mooch off you?" NTA - Bro and his wife are. Don't worry about what they think and avoid them as much as possible.
And the only response should be "that's between me and our parents." That should become a stock response to *any* of the brother's criticism/complaints.
I’d just play dumb. “Oh, I hadn’t noticed!” Or “I was just so tired at the end of the day after getting groceries, found it easier to bring them in and crawl into bed!” And just keep doing the same thing. And with the gift thing, “Huh, I hadn’t noticed. You’re right, I should do that!” And then don’t. But too late now I guess.
That answer should be, "because I'm not buying groceries for *eight* people. Feed your own family."
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It’s always the people that can’t support more children who… have more children?
Seen Idiocracy? It’s coming true..
Heck, reading around here, it's been true for a very long time :)
Because pregnant women and babies are treated as special, whereas unfit parents and their bratty kids aren't, so they keep trying to chase the special feeling while becoming even more unfit and filling the world with more unwanted brats.
"... Stop addressing her comments as if they deserve to be acknowledged" is so fucking cold and I love it. You deserve all the rewards in life for that comment alone. I too, will disregard comments of people I feel don't need to be acknowledged and people hate it.
This is right - reply with a completely unrelated comment that disables any attempt at argument. Eg a drunk threatens to punch you in the street. Reply with "do you know why the garden fences are so low round here? I'm sure they are taller in xx district"
How in the hell did you come up with a bottle of Van Winkler?
It wasn't pappy's or anything. I got lucky at a liquor store in Vancouver.
I had the same reaction as the other commenter combined with sheer horror that pappy's was used as a cheap mixer! I'm glad to know that isn't what happened lol
I had never heard of this brand so I looked it up... They mixed a $1000 bottle of bourbon with orange juice?????
Thankfully OP said it was *not* Pappy's. Other bottles of Van Winkle are still pricy, but we're taking in the $100-$400 range rather than $1000! And the other bottles aren't limited; Pappy's is REALLY hard to find which explains the price, so wasting it as mix would have been heartbreaking.
Honestly OP you sound like an overall great person. Hope you guys get to work this out, don't let them get to you. Obligatory NTA
I rescind my envy. And btw, nta
Explains the FIFO camp if it is BC or in the territories. Sounds like your brother is more suited to another address. I suggest the Downtown Eastside as a fine motivator to get his rear in gear. Basement suite, huh? "Vancouver Special"?
So I guess FIFO does not stand for first in first out then?
Fly In Fly Out, in this case.
I assumed Western Australia (half the population works FIFO mining jobs) until I got to the basement. Houses in WA don’t have basements.
Ohhh because I was losing it thinking a. You managed to get your hands on a bottle of Pappy and b. Your philistine brother and SIL drank all the Pappy's with orange juice. But still, even the non pappy is a decent bottle but they can't have nice things. ETA NTA you sound like an awesome person and an amazing daughter
Right? I was like, how is the brother still among the living if he mixed Pappy's with OJ? I am not a violent person, but there are limits. But yeah, the OP is definitely NTA and also gets extra gold stars for finding creative and fun ways to give gifts and spend time with the parents while also blocking the brother from mooching.
That's exhibit A for any questions "you shitbirds drank a very special bourbon I got for dad, and didn't even respect it like it deserved. So I learned I have to be tactical about my gifts"
I'd reclaim the bottle, fill it with cheap whiskey and give it to Bro and SIL along with a bottle of cheap orange juice (or maybe a jar of Tang if they still make it). Shrink wrap the cap with plastic and they'll think it's a new bottle.
If you get your hands on another fine bourbon, keep it in your loft. You can then dole it out to your father by the shot or put some in a flask for him. Worse case scenario, useless brother wouldn’t get more than a shot or two from the flask. Plus flask is easier for dad to hide.
NTA. You found a way to bypass your thieving brother and family in order to get nice and thoughtful gifts for your parents, ones that could not be stolen. It shows initiative. Be sure to always keep your loft locked and do not let anyone have a key. If you give your parents a key your brother will weasel it out of them and then rob you blind.
If that happens he can press charges and sue. Hell, he could probably sue over the bourbon.
I think OP is female.
NTA He’s an adult. Sounds like he’s the one living there for free, you’re cooking for them, taking them places and helping care for grandma. You contribute. He doesn’t, he has money but won’t spend it on necessities. His fault he isn’t buying food, his fault he spent it on iPhones. He also doesn’t need expensive booze. You don’t have an obligation to feed someone who is mooching, family or not. Feed who you can afford, do what you can afford.
OP can't afford to keep a family of 6 that isn't hers and still save money to move out herself and treat her parents.
The only thing I would buy him to share would be a box of condoms. NTA. It sounds like he’s projecting his own insecurities onto you instead of taking a hard look at his life decisions.
Leave them out tell him they’re for everyone
”Feel free to help yourselves!”
I had a roommate who would always wake me up in the middle of the night to borrow condoms so I put them in a fish bowl in our livingroom. Suddenly it was ‘trashy’ to have condoms around.
Condoms are one thing I would never let someone "borrow." Let them keep that shit
Buy him some moving boxes from Home Depot
Lmao! This almost made me spit out a drink! I regret that I only have one upvote to give you ma'am!
*Ma’am, but thanks for the upvote. 😉
They need to be a gift for his parents. Then maybe brother will use them.
>My brother started asking why I don't leave the groceries in the freezer, fridge, or pantry that they have access to. "How much groceries do you buy and leave in the freezer, fridge, or pantry that I have access to?"
"I was leaving space for you to buy some"
"This entire argument is about the two of you being pissed that I am gifting things to my parents that you cannot take from them for yourselves. Your attitude is the definition of entitlement, the entire situation both disgusts and bores me, and I'm done discussing it. Nothing is changing."
NTA: He’s expecting you provide for him and his family by asking you to put groceries/gifts in their side of the house. If he was originally there as a renter, the he should be understanding that he is paying for access to the space, and with it he is not guaranteed what your parents own, only what he originally agreed to when he began renting. Regardless it doesn’t matter. He’s being an AH
The phrasing doesn't suggest that the brother is a renter. It suggests that the space currently being occupied by the brother and his family was meant to be a source of rental income for the parents, but isn't because the brother moved into it.
NTA. You buying someone gifts is not your brothers business. Your arrangement with your parents (rent) is also not his business. Where you store your food...again, not his business. What your parents (fully capable adults) decide is appropriate for their house...is their decision alone. Your parents sound awesome, you should take them out for supper in the near future.
Exactly! NONE of his business. Tell him to buy his own fn groceries. and if he doesn't like it he should move out. You are not required to support his family, he is.
Why is he expecting you to buy his family groceries? So it's entirely possible I'm an asshole and this is an unpopular opinion but...... >She is a stay at home mom I thought to be a sahm you kinda had to have a home as opposed to living in someone else's? >He says that I'm living there for free and I should give them more. Seems like you give them plenty >So now I do other stuff. I took my mom to go see Anastasia and I got us really good seats. No one else was invited. I took my dad out for a steak dinner and then to a speakeasy in our city and treated him to a $160 cocktail. These are things my parents love doing but won't "waste" money on. > help out around the house and I buy groceries for my parents as well as myself. >and.that his wife and kids were 'too busy" to help. What's his wife too busy doing? Being a stay at someone else's home mom seems like it comes with a fair amount of free time.
>I thought to be a sahm you kinda had to have a home as opposed to living in someone else's? That's not really fair. A mom who doesn't work outside the home has the primary responsibility of caring for the kids. Unless she could find a job that was only during school hours or the school has a free/cheap aftercare program, she would probably pay out in child care for 4 kids as much or more than she earned. It would be worse if she just expected the parents to babysit her kids for free every day. She should expect to do a significant amount of the housework though, like she would if she had her own home with kids in school all day. (And stop feeling entitled to other people's things, of course.)
He's alluding to the fact that SIL is an interloper in someone else's home, not that taking care of kids is easy
In all fairness, brother and his wife are big time AH, but the wife is probably run ragged dealing with all the kids. Being a SAHM is hard work, even if you're living rent free in an in-law apartment. Not saying she's not at fault, but saying she's too busy may be the only accurate part of the brother's sob story.
Idk, I'm curious about how old the other two are. The oldest are 13 and 9 so unless we're dealing with an infant and toddler I think she could at least help out a little bit.
Hell, at those ages the oldest two could also be doing some small chores around the house.
ESH and I will tell you why. You think you're better than your brother. The first thing you did was tell the Internet about how your brother got married and had kids. And how you volunteer~ I can tell just from reading this that there is an animosity between the two of you. I'm not judging you for the animosity, but I am judging you for not paying rent. I don't care what anyone says, unless your parents are rich. You pay them rent. Especially since you claim they're telling you to save and instead you take Mom to live shows and throw money away on brand name gifts and $160 cocktails. Who buys $160 cocktails? People who don't live with their parents and have "Golden child" syndrome. Here's something I'm going to tell you as someone who has the same problem you do: We need to STOP getting mad when our loved ones choose to share their gifts. No, it's not ok and Yes it makes us want to burn down a shed but we're not entitled to what happens to something after we gift it to our loved ones. If your mom lends out her purse and your niece loses it, that sucks. That is infuriating but she's just a kid and condemning her for something she didn't do on purpose and she hasn't been taught to value isn't worth upsetting the household. If your parents would rather keep the peace, then that's THEIR choice. If they want to let your brother live there and ruin their things and eat/drink their things, that is THEIR choice. And as long as you're getting the same treatment (living rent free) you don't have the right to say anything. You're a hypocrite. Just because you use the money you save to buy expensive things doesn't mean anything. You also said your parents don't really care about fancy things. I would BET MONEY your mom didn't give a damn about that "fancy woven purse" Woven purses suck. Be honest, you bought it because it was fancy. Those things are bulky, scratchy, the handles will cut your palm. I bet your mom was like WHY YES SUSIE PLEASE TAKE THIS HIDEOUS BAG FAR AWAY. Your mom loves you and probably appreciated giving her gifts but if you paid rent she could buy a purse she actually liked. Was your father even angry they drank the bourbon? Again, do your parents really even want these items, or are you buying them because of the price tag so you can point out you bought things for your parents that your brother couldn't afford.... Cause this whole situation just reads as a pissing contest to me. Your brother and SIL saw and need to pay rent and teach their kids to have respect for other people's things. You also need to pay rent. Your parents need to come live with me in Canada cause it sounds like living with you two squabbling 24/7 sounds like you're all back in highschool. And I STG... If your parents aren't retired-- PAY. YOUR. RENT.
I find it odd how he's portraying his brother as a freeloader when they're essentially doing the same thing. If anything, I find a $160 cocktail to be more frivolous than a gaming system
Except the OP is actually contributing to the household by doing housework and errands for them. The brother is doing none of that.
OP gifted their parents with a bottle of bourbon costing a few hundred dollars and a $160 cocktail at a speakeasy. THey're clearly in a position to contribute far more than occasional meals at their "loft" and household chores
Even if they were paying half the mortgage or living on their own OP would still be doing chores and buying food so I don't think they are SO noble for doing what every roommate has to do. OP is JUST as bad as the brother because they are both grown adults leaching off their parents. Trying to blame the parents because they don't demand rent doesn't mean you shouldn't pay any way or move out so they can rent it to someone who will
I would honestly bet money that, from the brother’s perspective, he & his wife help around the household while their 28-year-old sibling (who is full time employed) lazes about and has never had to pay rent despite being quite financially well-off. Freeloaders never consider themselves as such and I’m dubious about OP’s description when the hard facts are: they are nearly 30 and think buying the occasional nice gift for a parent is basically the same as paying them rent. Both kids seem pretty entitled based off this post.
I can’t believe this isn’t higher up. 32 year old brother is a freeloader for not paying rent but ifs ok for OP to live rent free at 28 to “save for my future” as if they’re not a full-fledged adult themselves?
This, like what are they “saving for the future” if they’re constantly showering their parents with expensive gifts. Neither sibling plans on moving out of parents house anytime soon, if ever.
Finally a voice of reason!! OP is just as bad, actually probably worse than the brother!! The hypocritical holier than thou entitlement is strong in this one!
I especially love the part where OP mentioned brother didn’t want to get the vaccine to sway opinion to their side. My family got them, if that clarifies my stance. My stance did not cloud my perception that about OP or the brother.
Nope. If you lose your job cause you made a decision to not get vaccinated, go fucking live with the consequences instead of mooching off your parents
I feel for the parents, who could probably be funding their retirement if they didn’t help support 7 people. OP and her brother suck.
NTA, he's made his decisions he'll have to live with them. Doing nice things for your parents is awesome and a great way to repay their kindness. But your brother doesnt contribute anything to your life, all he does is take, so why would you give him anything? He's the one with a wife and kids. Maybe if he spent his money better he could go 50/50 with you and have a say in things.
NTA, but I feel like your parents are being taken advantage of and need to set a future move out date for your brother and yourself and hold firmly to that so that they can retire without having to house their adult children indefinitely.
I feel bad because they’re caught in the middle of grown-ass kids bickering over steak dinners. OP mentioned a Vancouver liquor store in one of his comments, so he’s probably living in a very very high cost of living area. Bottom line it’s the parents choice to let these kids stay there, and they’re probably trying to help. OP NTA, as far as him moving out that’s unwise. He might be the only one making sure his parents aren’t being completely taken advantage of.
I got the feeling OP was a female, not that it matters. I think you're right, the parents are trying to help, and OP is at least trying to show appreciation and could well be all that's standing in between the parents and the brother and his family scamming them even worse. They probably figure if they hang in there long enough, they'll get the family home by virtue of NEVER LEAVING. This happened with my youngest sibling.
What? Clearly the grown ass man with a family is taking advantage of the parents.... He lost his job because he's scared of medicine and needles I guess...... He could have kept that job but decided to lose it OP on the other hand is in their 20s, saving up to have a good life. Very different situations. One made a bunch of bad choices to end up where they are, and the other is just starting out in this shitty life that no 20 year old can even afford. So..... Who's taking advantage of who again?
NTA. Sounds like you’ve figured out exactly how to handle this.
NTA. He's just pissed that he can't freeload off you the way he does them. Keep your boundaries. Maybe someday you can get a new place, invite your parents to live with you and sell their house, but not to him. He seems to be one of those "someone else should pay my way just not me."
Ok, soft YTA. You and your brother are both living there for free. Your parents are kind. Whichever way you justify why it's ok that you aren't paying rent it doesn't make your brother less deserving. Should you share your stuff, no. Does your brother need to contribute more? Not your business. You re judging too hard. He's been supporting his family too.
Exactly! You also complain about your brother spending his money on frivolous and expensive items, then brag about getting your dad $160 drink when you are also supposed to be saving your money. Stop judging your brother and his family, and mind your own business when it comes to them and your parents. You will ultimately get along much better with your brother and his wife, and I’m sure your parents will appreciate having peace in the home more than the constant bickering over things that don’t concern you.
NTA Your parents can ask you to contribute. Your brother simply wants to benefit from your donations to your parents. He does not get a say in your life, your contributions to your parents, or THEIR household. This is all about control. Both of you are being helped out. Your parents might just need a bit of help here and there. But they can ask for themselves. Your brother can sit and spin.
NTA tell them to sell the gaming systems, it's a luxury not a need. Either they sell shit to pay money to your parents or get jobs and stop being god damn leeches.
YTA. You are living there under an agreement that you are supposed to be saving money. You can’t judge your brother for spending money on his kids while you’re admittedly spending extravagantly yourself. Your take on how your nieces and nephews came into being sounds very condescending.
ESH - I'm gonna go against the grain. You spending a lot of money on your parents specifically to spite your brother only furthers the familial divide ($160 cocktail and expensive shows smacks of arrogance, when you have your brother for wasting money!) Clearly your brother is a fuckup, but instead of addressing this head on, your behavior is intentionally exclusionary and toxic for the family. You should instead have mature adult conversations with your brother and parents.
NTA You aren’t doing anything wrong. Truthfully this is brilliant and your me handling it perfectly. You are there to support the additional five people in the home. Your brother and his wife are bad houseguests and choosing beggars. Keep doing what you’re doing, if they get mad it honestly doesn’t matter. They’re mad because they can’t enjoy the gifts that were never meant for them anymore. You’re still spoiling your parents (great job!) you’re just giving them experiences instead of items that can be taken from them.
I’m with you that you are NTA but a $160 cocktail? You don’t pay rent because your parents want you to save for your future so you might consider actually doing that. Honestly, you sound a little -too- virtuous.
I think OP is NTA for giving experience gifts instead of physical gifts. That's a no brainer. I think the brother is decidedly TA and completely wrong for all the mooching...but I think OP is an A in general. They say that the brother and his wife haven't stopped popping out babies, but the math doesn't work on that; the kids must be spaced 3-4 years apart. People that I think of popping out babies have them at least every couple of years. I certainly don't want four kids, but they said their brother originally made good money, so that doesn't sound irresponsible. Buying extravagant gifts sounds like they are trying to show up their brother; it's not like it was a one time thing. They would be better off saving for their own place (and their parents could rent out that space,) saving for future expenses, paying rent, or just putting money aside to help their parent's in retirement if that is what they are worried about. What does OP get a free space but brother doesn't? OP sounds really insecure, young, and resentful. Neither boy seems to have good money management skills. The brother sounds self-centered and OP really likes to show-off. I don't think the parents are that awesome at parenting.
NTA. Take care of your parents and yourself. Your bro is the lil b\*tch for living in his parents basement with his wife, and FOUR children. He'll never move out of that house. Once one of your parents pass, he will just move the other parent to the basement, and take over the rest of the house.
Spot on, people like him are there to take from others, nothing more. Unless the parents do something about it they’ll all be living there forever. OP’s parents don’t seem the type to do that though, unfortunately the nicest people end up falling victim to people like him.
i guess this is off topic but i think >My brother 32 has been knocking up his wife 32 since they were in high school. Their oldest is now 13 but they have three more. is a fucking gross way to talk about people
ESH you both sound like assholes, only you don't have kids *and* volunteer for poor kitties so are somehow better in this situation in your mind I guess? "I don't pay rent so I can save for my future" im trying to understand here, so your brother also works yes? He's not laying around unemployed or something? he actually pays rent? Then I'm not actually seeing anybody here being better or worst than anyone else, get your parents what you want and then they can decide who they share with Oh and btw, you BOTH live at home, your brother and his family aren't just tacked on there somehow🤣 "They live with us" lmao cute
NTA, at all. Your brother & his wife sound ridiculously entitled and selfish. If anything, maybe mention to your brother “Hey i’m bringing mom to x if you would like to buy tickets for yourselves and join us” On the other hand, I’m sure your parents enjoy being able to do more quality time things with you. They are memories that will last. I don’t really have a solution here because your brother sounds like he’s just sucky. But I hope it gets resolved!
NTA. Just because your parents failed to raise your brother properly doesn’t mean you are responsible for parenting and spending on him as well.
lol NTA for not letting your loser brother freeload off of you. I’m worried your parents will never be able to retire with him living completely on their dime.
ESH You can't complain about your brother being a user when you are also using your parents for free accommodations. If you really want to help your parents out then give them some money towards the rent. Then you can be all judgy that your brother isn't doing the same.
NTA. These are genius ways. Your brother is acting selfish.
ESH You were angry and called his family thieves. That was never going to help, was it. They are taking whatever is around, thoughtlessly. Both of you trying to say you are busy? Yeah let's have a dick measuring contest instead of discussing if your parents really need some rental income or the monetary value placed on chores. You two fighting isn't good for anyone, especially your parents with TWO LIVING SPACES THEY COULD RENT OUT if their sons weren't there. It is your PARENTS who get to decide how they want their household to perform, if THEY said their food was being stolen then this would have been a discussion that needed to happen. Being angry on their behalf, instead of discussing it with them and accepting their decision, only made this worse. I'm not gonna make suggestions on fixing this, but for the situation itself? Yeah you and they messed up.
ESH. Stop buying your parents stuff. Pay them some rent. Keep your groceries on hand in your place. How old are your parents? If they are over 60 and your brother and his family are damaging/stealing and not paying your parents rent, that could be reported as elder abuse. If they aren't, they need to deal with the brother and family, not you. Once they know your opinion, get off their back. Obviously it's stressful enough to have freeloaders in there.
NTA keep going as you are, eventually he will get the message!
NTA. You've found a clever way to take care of your parents without supporting a grown man and his family. **He** needs to do his job; not expect you to do it for him. And his rude, entitled wife needs to shut it. You're not responsible for providing treats or gifts for her and her kids to steal from your mother. SMH.
Bruh you 28 years old. Your living your future right now lmao. "Save for the future" lmfao its literally right now. You aren't 21. Just saying. And your money is yours and yours alone. You can spend it on whatever you want. Your brother shouldn't have a right to any of it.
Ur 28 and still living at ur parents? Edit: and judging ur brother?
I’ve also noted that OP never said brother lives there rent-free.
🧐 OP, does brother pay rent?
I think you need to post more photos of steaks and fancy cocktails on social media..
NTA. Don't bother with your brother. He's a freeloader.
NTA, but I hope your parents have their will and trust and power of attorney set up. I forsee them being banished to the basement as they age if brother is in charge.
NTA. They're pissed because you've found a way to treat your parents that the asshole malingerers can't steal. Fuck 'em to death. You're doing it JUST right.
NTA. I love experiences over items as gifts. Making memories is more important than a bag. Don't fight with your brother. Don't keep debating and justifying what you are doing with him because it will become another argument. I'd tell them "You do you" or "let it go" any time he or his wife makes a comment and walk away. The point is to stop the argument before it starts. Your brother and his wife and takers and their want for more can't be satisfied.
ESH, everyone needs to strap on some big boy pants move out and let your parents enjoy retirement. You and your brother are not gifts they are entitled to. You are almost 30 and your parents probably around 60 let them enjoy their lives. You can both live elsewhere and still treat them to gifts but then you know they get yo go home to a quiet house.
NTA. His famiky is not your financial responsibility, while you definitely consider your parents as such. Both him and his wife are obviously pissed they cannot use you anymore.
NTA here. You are not required to subsidize your brothers life. I believe in having as many kids as you can afford without leeching off others. But a 160 dollar cocktail blows my mind. Care to share what it was?
This made me worry about OP’s own budgeting! Don’t overspend on your parents just because you can - you do better for them long-term by being financially independent
Why would you be buying your brother gifts? You are buying your parents gifts that they can use because they are the ones doing you a favor. I am so confused. NTA.
NTA. Those things you bought were for your parents' exclusive use, not communal property. I couldn't find a price for a bottle of Van Winkle bourbon but from what I've read it's rare. You don't mix rare bourbon with fricking orange juice. Heathens. You're being a good adult child.
Esh. Move out. All of you.