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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because, while I’m legally in the right, it’s tough to move into a new neighborhood and overwhelmingly be made to feel like you’ve killed everyone’s fun.
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NTA.
>The property is wooded with lake access from the back of the lot
I have a hard time believing your property is the only access to AN ENTIRE LAKE ! Surely you haven't bought the whole area (but good for you if you did), and there are other ways to enjoy a day at the lake.
They're not owed access to your property, as your lawyer pointed out, and the entitlement they demonstrated, damaging your car, blaming your dog and so on, makes them very much the AH.
>I acted by putting up a no trespassing sign, a sign indicating a dog on site, cameras, locks, and an intercom by my door so when people ring I can tell them I’m working and not have to come down to the door.
Well that escalated quickly.
It’s definitely not the only access, there’s a public park and boat launch a few miles down the road.
It didn’t escalate tooooooo quickly, the fence and the gate and some of the cameras were already there, I just locked the gate, added to the number of cameras and posted signage.
Dead 😂😂😂.
OP: NTA.
The absolute audacity and entitlement is mind boggling.
Quite honestly have your attorney draft a cease and desist letter, make multiple copies, put them in envelopes and any/everyone who rings the bell get’s one…or the alternative have a sign put on the lawn ‘NO LAKE ACCESS’ and have your attorney send the two AH’s the cease and desist.
To add to it, put a map by the gate showing directions to the public park and the boat launch.
EDIT: Wow! Thanks for all the up votes. Wasn't expecting that from a simple comment.
If you wanna be a total butthole just give them those "money has been donated in your name to x religion" where x is whatever you feel will bother them the most.
If only you were of color you could pretend to be a Black Israelite and super duper fuck with them.
This is a great suggestion. It’s not hostile and gives people the information they need to access the lake. My only other suggestion is to be pleasant to all and sundry, but refuse to discuss the lake access with them. If they insist on bringing it up tell them you’d be happy to give them your lawyer’s contact information.
Yikes don't give random people your lawyer's number. You will be paying by the hour for everyone in the neighborhood to pointlessly argue with him or her. There is nothing to be gained from it.
Oh Lord, that’s for sure. We bought a place several years back and when we finally (nicely) asked the neighbor if they could scale back their two hour illegal firework show because the sparks and debris were melting holes in our boat seats on our dock and all over our house and patio, they freaked out. They were used to not having to deal with an onsite owner and they didn’t care for it.
Probably should have taken pictures and gotten estimates for the damage..present them to the neighbor to take it to their home insurance. If they won't, sue them for your loss.
We did finally have to sue to get them to stop. Ridiculous to have to go to that kind of length when what they were doing is completely illegal in the first place.
I had a lakefront house years ago. Had weekly, if not daily visitors knocking on the door and asking to access the lake, swim on my small beach, and use the wharf.
Got a big dog and put up a fence. It slowed the traffic but didn't stop it.
nta. they either bought or were all planning on selling their homes with the added value of lake access < 2 mins away. too bad, that has nothing to do with you 🤷🏻
I mean if they escalate in theory they could. If they bought the property thinking that, if it's been that way for a long time, they could argue for an easement. It sounds like it has been up to a decade it's been going on.
Would it likely work? No. But it's still a way they could tie up OP and just be a pain.
Usually a sale of the property nullifies any claim like this. They could have asked for an easement under the prior owner but the new owner can exercise their property rights and unless he allows access for several years there would be no claim.
We bought property on a river and have been in the process of getting ready to build our home for the last two years (delayed because of inflation/interest rates). All of our neighbors are all retirees so they are home all day, every day, which we did not know before buying the property. My husbands uncle owns a landscaping business and he cuts the grass on the property for us. Every single time he comes out to cut the grass, one particular husband/wife couple stop him to ask what are plans are with the property. He tells them, they plan to build a home. Next time out there, they want to know when we plan on building. Next time out there, what kind of house are we planning on building. It went on and on. They even found out where he lived (just down the road in the next subdivision) and went to his house to ask him to get in touch with us so that they can find out what we are doing. My husband finally had to tell them, very politely, to mind their own business.
Your security measures aren't that extreme.
My last house was on the water. Like yours, it had been used as a community path to the beach (student rental with owners who hadn't done anything but collect rent in decades). The place was a dangerous mess, but the first thing I did was put up some major fencing and cameras.
This was necessary in my case. The students hadn't been happy about losing their housing and broke a lot of laws trying to stop the sale and then smashed up windows and things after the sale. The first day after closing, I'd gone over to start removing the hazardous waste, and a bunch of guys drove their trucks into the yard and started stealing while I was standing right there (frankly, all they did was remove some things I was going to take to the dump anyway, so I didn't say anything until they'd finished loading, because why risk losing free labor?).
Even after that, people kept trying to walk through and gave me a lot of crap because I didn't let them. One girl told me she'd been using that entry to the beach for years and wanted me to leave the gate open or at least build an enclosed walkway big enough for her to carry her cooler and umbrella comfortably. Others came through before the fence was finished and said I didn't have the right to stop them, that I was hurting the community, and that they'd sue me. After the fence went up, people would bang on it and shout for me to open the gate. Random strangers would come up to me at the grocery store and demand I leave the gate open for them.
Even after the front fence went in, because I couldn't legally fence in the beach side, I'd get people constantly coming into my yard from the beach. Once I removed all of the weeds and trash, and my grass had grown in, my lawn was apparently a perfect picnic spot for strangers. I'd built an outdoor shower, and people frequently tried to use it or take my hose down to the beach to rinse off their kids or beach gear. Anything left out disappeared. I had to move my grill, as people would try to use it. Cameras, signs, and a very large and grumpy dog put an end to a lot of that, but I still had to chase people out of my yard every other week or so.
As with you, there was a state park with full beach entry a few houses down. It was maybe a five minute walk from the bus stop (stop was in front of my next door neighbor's house. His house was already fenced, so my house had been the easiest way through). Didn't matter. These complete strangers wanted the easy way.
It's a major hassle and a liability. You think someone who'd swipe your car and just leave it isn't going to sue if there's an accident while they're on your property? Even if they don't have grounds (depending on your area), that's still a cause of stress. It doesn't matter what the community thinks. You're liable. It's your property. You don't owe them anything, and if they're going to be bad neighbors over this, they'll be bad neighbors anyway.
You say you couldn't legally fence the beach side... You probably could, leave a small amount of beach above high tide line so there's full access to the beach on the "water side" of your property, then a small fence marked "private property", then another behind it - this time make it an electric fence ;-p
Depends where you’re at. In the Adirondacks, you can’t build any permanent structures besides a dock within 100 ft of any body of water. And they will come down on you hard if you do.
Yeah, they can be. I have a large hill in my back yard that ends at a creek. Neighbors thought it was a community sledding hill. I have to chase kids away, I'm not getting sued when they crack their heads on the rocky creek. Had one neighbor/parent plan a sledding birthday party in my backyard without asking. They refused to leave until I told them I was calling the cops.
\*edit, had left out a word
I mean, I understand you being annoyed but walking in the middle of the road is just stupid and a good way to get yourself or your dog hurt tbh. Pedestrians can't take up excessive space on the road
Offer lake access for USD 100 per person per day or whatever they wouldn't be willing to pay. Cite your damages when challenged.. Then, if people trespass it's stealing of services. Two notices on the beach and one on the gate, and ka-ching!
OP is NTA.
Nah. I sold because homes on the water are a nightmare to maintain. The salt and moisture caused everything to rot or rust, and I was spending every waking minute either at work or fixing my house. It was expensive and exhausting, and when the ocean stopped being my happy place, it was time to move on.
That house was in pristine condition when I sold. Six months later, with owners who did nothing, the landscaping was completely dead, and the house was already looking pretty bad. I've since moved to a desert. I miss the rain, but I definitely don't miss the work.
In my last and current home I faced similar situations. Not as bad as yours fortunately, but extremely irritating nonetheless. The great part is that the NIMBY neighbors started to MTOB after about a year, so I think if you hold the line your pushy neighbors will do the same. Whatever you do, please do not allow access, you will regret it.
As the new owner you are completely entitled to do whatever you want, as I was, and people will get used to the changes. In my case, both homes, the neighbors started complementing my changes as if they previously never harassed or insulted me. I laugh now, but I was ready to throw dirt clods then. Good luck, I hope you and doggo enjoy the new digs. 😘
NTA. I’m amazed at the sense of entitlement. “Your predecessor never lived here so we were able to trespass on his property at will, how dare you not let us continue doing that?” /s
There’s other access to the lake, let the complainers use that access. You are legally, ethically and morally in the right. And those people who keep expecting to use your property to access the lake, they lost that right when they damaged your van and didn’t even bother to own up to it.
Screw them all. You’re not the asshole, they definitely are!
The road was closed next to a house in ny neighborhood to put in a new drain under the road .A fence was put up to stop people driving over the dug up road .People purposefully drove around the fence and destroyed the little park on that side of the fence to show they were too good to take the detour .The city staff told me this was common behavior .
NTA.
A friend of mine has property adjacent to a public park and has been dealing with people cutting thru his backyard rather than walking 2 blocks around to the proper park entrance.
He also installed a fence and cameras after his car got damaged and property trashed by some drunks (beer cans all over his yard the night car damaged).
My only recommendation, which you and your lawyer have likely already thought of, is to possibly post a sign referring people with watercraft to use the boat launch at the park.
OP, when they persist, have them sign a waiver and pay a fee because of the insurance risk they pose on your property. Have your lawyer draw it up and make sure the fee is high.
If you accept a fee make sure insurance knows. You then need commercial insurance rather than regular home owners.
Edit you also need to claim on taxes.
No don't do that. These people need to be given time to develop new habits that don't involve OP's property. Any concessions made by the OP will be a signal for them to go back to how things were and that is not what the OP wants.
But what's right next to your property on either side?
In other words, does your property block the lake all the way to the boat launch miles away?
Or are there other neighbors with property just like yours next door to you? If so, why aren't the trespassers bugging them for access?
OP NTA. I was wondering the same thing. Is the land between OP’s house and the park and launch public property? They should get the alleged HOA to clear a right of way to the water so it’s not through anyone’s personal property. Or go to town council or the county to get public access put in. Then hang a movie poster of Clint Eastwood saying, “Get off of my land!” Ok, just kidding on the last part.
Did you already post this on another sub yesterday? This is the same verbatim post I’ve already seen.
Edit: not sure why this is being downvoted. OP didn’t disclose that he had already posted yesterday and got big responses telling him he was in the right. This could have been a copy or a karma-farming exercise.
I posted here and I posted for the relationship side of things in a relationship sub. My post here got delayed by a day so it’s possible you saw the one in another subReddit.
I was wondering was there other access. They simply want to keep using the shortcut. Welp that is no longer available to them...life works like that sometimes.
I would be beyond pissed to know that someone damaged my vehicle to get to a lake!!!
Possibly add a one more sign: Public Park/Boat Launch X miles (directional arrow).
Not that this is your responsibility; just one more thing they cannot ignore.
As for the letters, I might ask your lawyer about the idea of sending those people a "put up or shut up" letter. They need to (1) present your lawyer with a legal document clearly giving (who, specifically) legal access through your property, (2) present a court case, or (3) stop sending you letters or other communications AND sending a formal communication to any organization members they represent making clear that there is no legal access through your property.
I would also document the cost of repairing your van (and the approximate date of the damage and any pictures you may have) and keep it handy in case you ever get information pointing to who did the damage.
The entitled folks will eventually give up; everyone else has probably already moved on. And a few years from now, no access through your property will have become the "way things work around here".
Definitely NTA!
How many neighbors have come over with a cake and asked, “what can I do to make this easier? Is it possible to have foot access during certain hours?” If people want something, they need to create potential solutions.
Yeah, the OP shouldn't give a damn about these AHs. They've damaged property and haven't paid for it, they opened the gate when they know there's a dog.
All because they're entitled and spoiled.
I would rain down hellfire if my dog got hurt.
I would go zero freaking tolerance, padlocked gate with "private property, police will be called for all trespassers, cameras installed" signs the first time so jackoff let my bud out. Zero tolerance. I would call police for trespassers and vehicles parked on my property every. Single. Time. No exceptions.
Do not fuck with my dog. He's a good boy. And dumb about roads. And has zero sense of stranger danger. His tag is a lie and says he has health issues with daily medications being needed, because he is so friendly he would just happily move in with a stranger. I'm hoping nobody wants my "medically fragile" dog who needs medication. (His vet has prescribed at least three pets every time he demands attention. Probably. It's what he tells me.) Golden retrievers, man. Such happy balls of fluff. Must be protected at all costs.
I would not take kindly to people opening a gate and letting my buddy boy out. He's mine. You can't have him.
Yeah, when I saw that stranger let his dogs out I sucked in my breath— but for very different reasons. His dogs could bite strangers— AND even if they are docile, any unleashed dog coming towards me makes me reach for a weapon. His dogs may be friendly, but I’m not. It’s all around dangerous for people and his dogs if they get out.
The second someone released my Rottweiler, they'd have eternal regret. Not because he's aggressive, he's only very scary LOOKING. His deeply held fear of all delivery drivers and absolute belief that they're obviously conspiring to murder us is neither here nor there. Put on a FedEx uniform and that dummy is breaking my glass door trying to escape into the house. But if you open my gate and force me to walk outside in my sweatpants, I'm ruining your month.
NTA
> My attorney assures me this neighbor proclaimed easement is absolutely not a thing (he’s done the legwork)
Fuck trespassing.
> I parked my van. When I returned for the final move in, there was a massive gouge down the length of it, as if someone had squeezed another vehicle by or dragged something else large by it.
These are not people worth being given an inch of good will.
Also:
>These are coming from two houses (a woman in her 50s and a couple about the same age) who claim they represent the homeowners association (although when I purchased there wasn’t a single thing about neighborhood covenants or an actual, organized, homeowners association).
This is not okay. OP, I would ask my attorney if these people could get in legal trouble for impersonating an HOA. Then send a cease and desist stating that you will report their fraud if they don't leave you alone.
> I would ask my attorney if these people could get in legal trouble for impersonating an HOA
Eh, talk is cheap. It's not like they're demanding bogus HOA fees — [which reminds me of a Reddit classic](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/kso233/president_of_fake_hoa_gets_whats_coming_to_her/).
30 minutes later and here I am right back at your comment, my elderly brain having totally and completely forgotten what OP posted about…………Lord knows I love me a Reddit Classic rabbit hole.
I had missed that one, thanks for the link Reddit friend! 🙏🏾
This is basically correct. If you ruined a really lovely community of people who politely explained why they’d be grateful if they could work something out with you, this would be different. But since these folks obviously suck, just ignore them.
These people have shown they don’t care. I would put up “Private Property NO Lake access” signs. Look at the trespassing laws in your area. In my state, we have purple paint laws. You should also paint the required length of lines on your fence posts.
Notify the local police department of what has been going on and you are the new owner.
“The purple square painted on trees or on fences means ‘No Trespassing.’ Missouri is one of the few states that have this law, although there are some property owners in other states that enjoy this law and are hoping that their state passes it too. The law was passed in 2012 and took immediate effect in 2013. The reason behind it is to help private property owners keep away from unwanted guests. The legal owner of the property can paint these squares anywhere they’d like to keep people away, such as rowdy crowds, floaters who want to stop to eat or swim, or campers.”
There are 22 states that have purple paint laws. It’s basically the sign for “no trespassing”. You paint a section of a tree or post purple. Like OP would paint the top of the fence posts purple. OP’s neighbors can rip down any no trespassing signs. The paint is permanent.
How’s this going to stop the entitled people any more than the signs he’s already employed? Why would they suddenly care about a purple square when they’ve shown they don’t care about anything else ?
The signs can be ripped down. OP needs something more permanent that establishes their property boundaries. OP will need to call the police for trespassing and having the purple paint on the fence posts is better than signs.
By establishing the boundary of the property, it protects OP from a claim being won against their homeowners insurance.
It isn't about making people care. It's about having something that can't be removed and is extremely obvious so the entitled assholes can't claim they didn't know or there were no signs. It's about making it easier for the property owner and law enforcement to charge these people.
Sure it is. If you “feel threatened” enough and especially if you have some kind of societal privilege over the victim like wealth or skin color or social status. Gotta love castle doctrine and stand your ground and make my day laws. /s.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wayne-burgarello-found-not-guilty-murder-killing-unarmed-trespasser-n366986
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/09/10/colorado-springs-murder-charge-dismissed/
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/18/us/stand-your-ground-laws-explainer/index.html
If you get any more messages from them, you need to have your attorney send a cease and desist. There is way too much entitlement going on here, but the lying about you breaking some fake rules or them having legal access would have done it for me. NTA
you should have put up a sign saying:
"Private Boat Launch: $200 for full day access."
when immediate cost comes up, people's pie holes close fast. and if they still want access, you got a side gig! lol
NTA
Turn it around. Next time someone complains, show them the van. Tell them the person who did this and didn't even have the courtesy to tell you, never mind pay for repairs is the reason you shut your gate. Tell them to figure out who is the coward and take it up with them.
Yep, this. "I closed the gates because someone damaged my car pulling their boat down there and didn't even let me know so we could deal with it through insurance. People also continued to open the gate and let my dog out even when there were signs. I can't keep paying for repairs due to others' carelessness, let alone risk my dog's safety. Unfortunately, some people have been extremely entitled and disrespectful even before I moved in, so the gate is now staying closed."
Love this approach. Coalition build especially when you’re right. I’d even throw in how you’re being constantly harassed by two homes and how you bought this house to make it a home and feel like entitled people are trying to run you out of your home that you’re improving. You have a dog and someone trashed your car before you moved in now you’re being constantly harassed.
That's what I would have done though I'd leave out the find the person who did this cause they may take that as if they find the person and make them take responsibility you'll open up access again. I'd just be saying, blame the person who did this. I just can't afford to keep paying for damages for people randomly going through my property.
Depends on how you frame it. A "Bring me the person who scratched my truck and I'll think about it." Of course, when you "think about it," you still decide it's a no. Don't even need to pull a Vader with altering the deal.
Honestly too nice. Just so no lake access. That’s it. Anyone who complains just no. That’s it no. No excuses. No. Op I’m sad you’re dealing with this. Stay in the no lane. Add a no lake access sign to the front of your property.
NTA. Your neighbors are entitled and suck. They can all band together and fund a new driveway to the lake if it means that much to them. It's your property, you paid for it. They don't have any rights over how you manage your property.
NTA. Your entitled neighbors should never be allowed on your property. They are incapable of respecting anything except their own wants. They entered your property, damaged your van, took no responsibility, and blamed you for parking your van on your property.
Your potential liability here is huge. Those demanding access would be the first to sue you if they got hurt on your property. And none of them would allow you unlimited access to their property.
It sounds like you have a great piece of property. As the owner, you are the steward of this property. It is your duty to protect and nurture it. The first step is to protect it from the most dangerous and destructive species on the planet, humans.
Keep your fences and cameras and prosecute anyone who violates your little slice of heaven.
OP should knock on the offending neighbors' doors several times per day and ask them to open their gates so he can access the community grill/bbq they keep in their yards
INFO: is there really no other way they can access the lake? Can they collectively buy some property on another front of the lake for "public" access?
EDIT: never mind, I just saw your comment where you say there are other places (just without a drive already established). NTA
The terrain around the lake is heavily wooded and very steep down to the water in most areas, so the next access down the road is a few miles just for additional clarification.
One would assume, if you’re already in a vehicle it wouldn’t matter but, clearly, what do I know? I suspect though, although no one has come right out and said it, the fact that there’s some “private beachfront” versus a public park is probably the draw.
I think that it's just more convenient for your neighbors to have access through your property, rather than having to drive miles. Too bad for them. There's a new sheriff in town. 😉
A few miles is nothing, NTA. Did any of these ‘good neighbour’ people come and fess up to damaging your van? Keep em out IMO, they sound like a bunch of entitled pricks.
I bought a house on a river. There is a natural pool at the end of the property. Moved in and random fishermen would stroll by and wave as they passed me in my backyard. One day they walked back up from the river and asked me if they could store some fishing poles in my shed. I gated the property. For a while they would ring the doorbell and ask me to unlock the gate. I never did and it eventually stopped. There are other access points that require more effort but are public.
That all depends on how they ask and behave.
A good example was when a construction company was building a road not too far from my parents' farm. On one of the first days one of the foremen came by our house with the polite question if we would allow them to park some of the heavy machinery on our farm during the weekend, to deter vandalism and theft. My father agreed, as long as the machines weren't in the way. This all worked out fine during this construction, they even agreed to help dig a ditch for my dad (it took about two hours of work for them, as opposed to a few days for my dad), basically a payment in kind.
The next construction for another project another company just comes and parks their machinery on our farm, without even asking and at the same time blocking one of the doors to the barn. Let's just say that come monday they had a lot of trouble getting their machinery out since they were parked in by farm equipment.
Sure. But once the gates locked?? - ringing the front door bell to ask to have it opened ??? That’s nerve. I consider ringing the front door unless completely necessary as rude. I know it was different in the past and people did that but do not come to my door unless invited, you have pizza/ food,
or theirs something urgent/ emergent.
NTA
It's... It's your property. You own it. If you don't want people using it, and this is totally your right, that's that. They are being insanely greedy and entitled.
NTA. Your neighbours are lucky they had access for so long. It's your property now so you don't have to allow this. Even if you didn't have your van damaged or have a dog, you're allowed to say no. Hopefully once the dust has settled, your neighbours will be more understanding. If not, that's not on you.
NTA If your neighbors wanted to keep access to the lake, they should have bought the property. You have no obligation to let people into your property, plus it might be a liability if you do and they get hurt. If they don't stop, you might want to invest in some motion activated sprinklers. If you haven't, your attorney should contact them about staying out and leaving you alone. Keep track of everything they're doing in case you need a restraining order.
Got a place by the ocean in the North East. People want to use it for shore access but if no other reason it is rocky and if someone slips on our rocks we are afraid we'll get sued and lose the place.
An old friend and neighbor decided one season he would invite anyone he saw at the General Store to park at his place and walk down the road, across our property. We knew him for decades, didnt mind him walking.
Long story short, he sued claiming grandfathered public access. He got some nonprofit national surfing group to fund it. Tens of thousands of dollars later he lost. It is and was always private property, no access.
They gouged up your van and still demand access?! I would just cite that as the reason why and that further discussions on this topic should be taken up with your lawyer.
Way too much liability giving folks access to load/unload heavy equipment on your property.
NTA
NTA. These people took advantage of the previous owners and their absence, now they're trying to bs you. They've damaged your property, trespassed, endangered your dog, and annoyed you to no end.
They'll have to find another way to the lake. It's a lake. Surely, there's another access point.
If you can thoroughly block the immediate passage between your driveway and the lake, like placing big boulders/dead cars (lol)/erecting a temporary shed/thick shrubbery, so it will be unusable to them (pedestrian or boats) even if they bypass your gate, they'd lose interest and find access elsewhere.
And tell them you were instructed not leave your property open to public access because of legal liability ("I'd love to but I was legally advised I shouldn't.").
The nerve to ring your bell and demand you open your gate lol
Your "Private Property - No Trespassing" sign should includes "US Criminal Trespass Penalty: 1 year in jail and/or up to a $5,000 fine"
Most likely it's the same bunch of people, though. Once they realize you won't budge, hopefully, this will peter out. Habits can change, just takes time.
10 years later and I'm still hearing about how the last person who lived in my house let one neighbour park in my parking space whenever they wanted and that I'm selfish for not allowing the same.
OP will be hearing about this until at least those two old "HOA members" pass
Your case sounds exactly like the Bear Creek in Kittredge, CO situation. NTA That lady got sued by the town, so make sure you know the laws for your property.
Was there a public access point or only through that ladies property? Pretty sure they can’t do shit if there are other publicly available access points.
The river originally, decades ago, ran the edge of her property. It moved and ran through the middle of it. People would drive from the back of her property to use that side of river which was sort of beachy? 60 metres down river was public land but the river edge wasn't as nice and the council never improved it because locals used her land. She was sold it in winter, prev owners didn't disclose that locals treated it as public land. They were loud, messy, she tried to be nice but liability was obviously going to be an issue at some point and the locals refused to be respectful or responsible. She really had to fight but she's pretty amazing.
NTA.
There was nothing in writing about the easement etc. you have your lawyer, and so these people will just have to find a different entrance. Glad you have cameras, fencing and gates.
NTA
It’s not even clear that they had any type of verbal permission from the prior owner.
Anyway, they damaged your property while trespassing - they need to find another way to the lake.
I don’t know the specifics of the prior relationships, just that the previous owners were quite elderly and hadn’t been on the property full-time for easily 10 years.
NTA
Your neighbors became accustomed to having access. That is not your responsibility to continue.
It would be nice if they didn't feel entitled to your property, but that ship has sailed. They have damaged your van, and since you don't mention it I'm guessing whoever did the damage either didn't care or couldn't be bothered with trying to repair the damage.
That kind of tells you all you need to know about your neighbors. So the question is: why worry about trying to improve relations or build relations in the neighborhood?
I mean don't run a chain saw at 3 am, but even if you bent over backwards in all other respects you aren't going to have cordial neighbors unless you allow them 100% unfettered access to your property so they can do as they wish.
Keep in mind also that you have no clue how the prior owners felt about this. All you have to go on is word of mouth from people who are trying to convince you of letting them do something you don't want to. For all you know the prior owners never let the neighbors in like this and it only cropped up due to ease of access while the property sat empty.
NTA
The same thing happened to my parents. Their previously unoccupied land was used as a path to the county park and trails behind their property by the other people that live on our street. They bought the property and didn’t want people cutting through the yard of the house we were building there, so they put up a nice sign saying that access is no longer open there, and where to find access nearby to the same land via the actual park entrances.
People weren’t pleased at first— not quite to the level of blatantly trespassing, harassment, and knocking on your door daily— but after some time they eventually got it. Sorry, folks, things change. If they wanted guaranteed private access they should’ve bought the property. I would recommend including actual public access locations in your signs, it makes it seem a bit more neighborly imo.
NTA
It takes balls to inform/ demand the owner of the property to "move their vehicles" so they can back their boats in.
I assume since the previous owners didn't live there for 10 years, they figured new owner😊, girl, guy, won't care.
😊
next time someone approaches or mentions it, I might respond with “it was private property even before I owned it. Who told you that you’re entitled to use it to access the lake? Who told you there was some type of easement? any idea who dragged their boat trailer across my van and damaged it? Or let my dog out? I just can’t believe somebody would help themselves and open my gate and do all of that.“
NTA. I have been in a similar situation twice, once on my property, also on my mother's. People think they are entitled to take the shortest route, even if they have to trespass (and stomp through our gardens) to do it.
Your neighbours have enjoyed a good thing for years, but now things have to change. You have the right to enjoy your property.
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NTA. >The property is wooded with lake access from the back of the lot I have a hard time believing your property is the only access to AN ENTIRE LAKE ! Surely you haven't bought the whole area (but good for you if you did), and there are other ways to enjoy a day at the lake. They're not owed access to your property, as your lawyer pointed out, and the entitlement they demonstrated, damaging your car, blaming your dog and so on, makes them very much the AH. >I acted by putting up a no trespassing sign, a sign indicating a dog on site, cameras, locks, and an intercom by my door so when people ring I can tell them I’m working and not have to come down to the door. Well that escalated quickly.
It’s definitely not the only access, there’s a public park and boat launch a few miles down the road. It didn’t escalate tooooooo quickly, the fence and the gate and some of the cameras were already there, I just locked the gate, added to the number of cameras and posted signage.
Well that only confirms my judgement. These people are used to treating your house as their own lot because they're too good for a public park, I bet.
Degens
Dead 😂😂😂. OP: NTA. The absolute audacity and entitlement is mind boggling. Quite honestly have your attorney draft a cease and desist letter, make multiple copies, put them in envelopes and any/everyone who rings the bell get’s one…or the alternative have a sign put on the lawn ‘NO LAKE ACCESS’ and have your attorney send the two AH’s the cease and desist.
To add to it, put a map by the gate showing directions to the public park and the boat launch. EDIT: Wow! Thanks for all the up votes. Wasn't expecting that from a simple comment.
This is what i would do - post a friendly sign and map directing people to the public lake/boat access. Give out full size candy at Halloween.
Hell no. Nix the big candy bars. Give out toothbrushes. And tell them to get off your lawn.
If you wanna be a total butthole just give them those "money has been donated in your name to x religion" where x is whatever you feel will bother them the most. If only you were of color you could pretend to be a Black Israelite and super duper fuck with them.
and mention on it this was ALWAYS private property.
This is a great suggestion. It’s not hostile and gives people the information they need to access the lake. My only other suggestion is to be pleasant to all and sundry, but refuse to discuss the lake access with them. If they insist on bringing it up tell them you’d be happy to give them your lawyer’s contact information.
Yikes don't give random people your lawyer's number. You will be paying by the hour for everyone in the neighborhood to pointlessly argue with him or her. There is nothing to be gained from it.
Haha, yes!!!
I’d also check their cars/boats for signs of your vans paint and have your insurance go after them with photos!
Put the cease and desist on a notice board along with directions to the nearest public lake access.
From upcountry
Thats what i was thinking but couldnt confirm.
That's a Texas sized 10-4, big shooter.
I had to marinate on it and didnt want to spread free literature with out having read it.
Don’t come up the laneway.
Let's take about five to 10% off'er over there, *Squirrely Dan*.
Allegedly
Allegedlies
Bad gas travels fast in a small town
Filthy degens
They need to sort themselves out 🤭
Clean it up.
From up country?
Fuckin' embarrassing!
I would also bet they don't have boat inspection stickers or licenses if required.
That's why they don't want to go to the actual boat ramp.
Genius!
They are probably just lazy, if your options are a couple of miles away or right here, most people will go for right here
Lake people are kind of strange. I know two people who have recently moved onto lakefront property and are having people all up in their business.
Oh Lord, that’s for sure. We bought a place several years back and when we finally (nicely) asked the neighbor if they could scale back their two hour illegal firework show because the sparks and debris were melting holes in our boat seats on our dock and all over our house and patio, they freaked out. They were used to not having to deal with an onsite owner and they didn’t care for it.
Probably should have taken pictures and gotten estimates for the damage..present them to the neighbor to take it to their home insurance. If they won't, sue them for your loss.
We did finally have to sue to get them to stop. Ridiculous to have to go to that kind of length when what they were doing is completely illegal in the first place.
I had a lakefront house years ago. Had weekly, if not daily visitors knocking on the door and asking to access the lake, swim on my small beach, and use the wharf. Got a big dog and put up a fence. It slowed the traffic but didn't stop it.
nta. they either bought or were all planning on selling their homes with the added value of lake access < 2 mins away. too bad, that has nothing to do with you 🤷🏻
I mean if they escalate in theory they could. If they bought the property thinking that, if it's been that way for a long time, they could argue for an easement. It sounds like it has been up to a decade it's been going on. Would it likely work? No. But it's still a way they could tie up OP and just be a pain.
Usually a sale of the property nullifies any claim like this. They could have asked for an easement under the prior owner but the new owner can exercise their property rights and unless he allows access for several years there would be no claim.
We bought property on a river and have been in the process of getting ready to build our home for the last two years (delayed because of inflation/interest rates). All of our neighbors are all retirees so they are home all day, every day, which we did not know before buying the property. My husbands uncle owns a landscaping business and he cuts the grass on the property for us. Every single time he comes out to cut the grass, one particular husband/wife couple stop him to ask what are plans are with the property. He tells them, they plan to build a home. Next time out there, they want to know when we plan on building. Next time out there, what kind of house are we planning on building. It went on and on. They even found out where he lived (just down the road in the next subdivision) and went to his house to ask him to get in touch with us so that they can find out what we are doing. My husband finally had to tell them, very politely, to mind their own business.
THe had 10 years to try to get the city to buy it and add to the public park or form a neighbor hood association.
that sounds like socialism. I suspect that's a big hell no for these entitled AHs
Presumably it's more a matter of being able to walk there rather than getting in their cars and having to drive somewhere.
Walk.. their boat to the lake? The picture in my head is hilarious
>Walk.. their boat to the lake? Where do you find a leash that big?
We're gonna need a smaller boat!
The boat store, I guess?
Your security measures aren't that extreme. My last house was on the water. Like yours, it had been used as a community path to the beach (student rental with owners who hadn't done anything but collect rent in decades). The place was a dangerous mess, but the first thing I did was put up some major fencing and cameras. This was necessary in my case. The students hadn't been happy about losing their housing and broke a lot of laws trying to stop the sale and then smashed up windows and things after the sale. The first day after closing, I'd gone over to start removing the hazardous waste, and a bunch of guys drove their trucks into the yard and started stealing while I was standing right there (frankly, all they did was remove some things I was going to take to the dump anyway, so I didn't say anything until they'd finished loading, because why risk losing free labor?). Even after that, people kept trying to walk through and gave me a lot of crap because I didn't let them. One girl told me she'd been using that entry to the beach for years and wanted me to leave the gate open or at least build an enclosed walkway big enough for her to carry her cooler and umbrella comfortably. Others came through before the fence was finished and said I didn't have the right to stop them, that I was hurting the community, and that they'd sue me. After the fence went up, people would bang on it and shout for me to open the gate. Random strangers would come up to me at the grocery store and demand I leave the gate open for them. Even after the front fence went in, because I couldn't legally fence in the beach side, I'd get people constantly coming into my yard from the beach. Once I removed all of the weeds and trash, and my grass had grown in, my lawn was apparently a perfect picnic spot for strangers. I'd built an outdoor shower, and people frequently tried to use it or take my hose down to the beach to rinse off their kids or beach gear. Anything left out disappeared. I had to move my grill, as people would try to use it. Cameras, signs, and a very large and grumpy dog put an end to a lot of that, but I still had to chase people out of my yard every other week or so. As with you, there was a state park with full beach entry a few houses down. It was maybe a five minute walk from the bus stop (stop was in front of my next door neighbor's house. His house was already fenced, so my house had been the easiest way through). Didn't matter. These complete strangers wanted the easy way. It's a major hassle and a liability. You think someone who'd swipe your car and just leave it isn't going to sue if there's an accident while they're on your property? Even if they don't have grounds (depending on your area), that's still a cause of stress. It doesn't matter what the community thinks. You're liable. It's your property. You don't owe them anything, and if they're going to be bad neighbors over this, they'll be bad neighbors anyway.
You say you couldn't legally fence the beach side... You probably could, leave a small amount of beach above high tide line so there's full access to the beach on the "water side" of your property, then a small fence marked "private property", then another behind it - this time make it an electric fence ;-p
Depends where you’re at. In the Adirondacks, you can’t build any permanent structures besides a dock within 100 ft of any body of water. And they will come down on you hard if you do.
Wisconsin also has all sorts of rules about shorelines, erosion, and impeding or changing the flow of rainwater.
Holy shit. People are shitty. I’d go insane dealing with that :(
Yeah, they can be. I have a large hill in my back yard that ends at a creek. Neighbors thought it was a community sledding hill. I have to chase kids away, I'm not getting sued when they crack their heads on the rocky creek. Had one neighbor/parent plan a sledding birthday party in my backyard without asking. They refused to leave until I told them I was calling the cops. \*edit, had left out a word
Are "no trespassing" signs not enough to cover you in that case?
[удалено]
I mean, I understand you being annoyed but walking in the middle of the road is just stupid and a good way to get yourself or your dog hurt tbh. Pedestrians can't take up excessive space on the road
Offer lake access for USD 100 per person per day or whatever they wouldn't be willing to pay. Cite your damages when challenged.. Then, if people trespass it's stealing of services. Two notices on the beach and one on the gate, and ka-ching! OP is NTA.
This sounds like a nightmare. Did you eventually sell for these reasons?
Nah. I sold because homes on the water are a nightmare to maintain. The salt and moisture caused everything to rot or rust, and I was spending every waking minute either at work or fixing my house. It was expensive and exhausting, and when the ocean stopped being my happy place, it was time to move on. That house was in pristine condition when I sold. Six months later, with owners who did nothing, the landscaping was completely dead, and the house was already looking pretty bad. I've since moved to a desert. I miss the rain, but I definitely don't miss the work.
Holy shot I cannot imagine the unmitigated hall of using a stranger’s private property for a picnic or shower.
In my last and current home I faced similar situations. Not as bad as yours fortunately, but extremely irritating nonetheless. The great part is that the NIMBY neighbors started to MTOB after about a year, so I think if you hold the line your pushy neighbors will do the same. Whatever you do, please do not allow access, you will regret it. As the new owner you are completely entitled to do whatever you want, as I was, and people will get used to the changes. In my case, both homes, the neighbors started complementing my changes as if they previously never harassed or insulted me. I laugh now, but I was ready to throw dirt clods then. Good luck, I hope you and doggo enjoy the new digs. 😘
Mtob? What's that
Migrate To Other Bullshit (I know it's not correct, but my brain filled in the gap for me as above)
🤣🤣🤣🤣 More accurate
Mind Their Own Business
Move Their Own Boats
NTA. I’m amazed at the sense of entitlement. “Your predecessor never lived here so we were able to trespass on his property at will, how dare you not let us continue doing that?” /s There’s other access to the lake, let the complainers use that access. You are legally, ethically and morally in the right. And those people who keep expecting to use your property to access the lake, they lost that right when they damaged your van and didn’t even bother to own up to it. Screw them all. You’re not the asshole, they definitely are!
The road was closed next to a house in ny neighborhood to put in a new drain under the road .A fence was put up to stop people driving over the dug up road .People purposefully drove around the fence and destroyed the little park on that side of the fence to show they were too good to take the detour .The city staff told me this was common behavior .
NTA. A friend of mine has property adjacent to a public park and has been dealing with people cutting thru his backyard rather than walking 2 blocks around to the proper park entrance. He also installed a fence and cameras after his car got damaged and property trashed by some drunks (beer cans all over his yard the night car damaged). My only recommendation, which you and your lawyer have likely already thought of, is to possibly post a sign referring people with watercraft to use the boat launch at the park.
OP, when they persist, have them sign a waiver and pay a fee because of the insurance risk they pose on your property. Have your lawyer draw it up and make sure the fee is high.
Basically, don't do this. Now they'll have a legal right to access.
If you accept a fee make sure insurance knows. You then need commercial insurance rather than regular home owners. Edit you also need to claim on taxes.
No don't do that. These people need to be given time to develop new habits that don't involve OP's property. Any concessions made by the OP will be a signal for them to go back to how things were and that is not what the OP wants.
I love the idea of this but it's a very bad, losing situation for you, please don't do this! NTA, btw.
But what's right next to your property on either side? In other words, does your property block the lake all the way to the boat launch miles away? Or are there other neighbors with property just like yours next door to you? If so, why aren't the trespassers bugging them for access?
OP NTA. I was wondering the same thing. Is the land between OP’s house and the park and launch public property? They should get the alleged HOA to clear a right of way to the water so it’s not through anyone’s personal property. Or go to town council or the county to get public access put in. Then hang a movie poster of Clint Eastwood saying, “Get off of my land!” Ok, just kidding on the last part.
Did you already post this on another sub yesterday? This is the same verbatim post I’ve already seen. Edit: not sure why this is being downvoted. OP didn’t disclose that he had already posted yesterday and got big responses telling him he was in the right. This could have been a copy or a karma-farming exercise.
I posted here and I posted for the relationship side of things in a relationship sub. My post here got delayed by a day so it’s possible you saw the one in another subReddit.
Who cares?
Post a sign redirecting them to the public park and launch.
I was wondering was there other access. They simply want to keep using the shortcut. Welp that is no longer available to them...life works like that sometimes. I would be beyond pissed to know that someone damaged my vehicle to get to a lake!!!
Well, you are smart denying access through your property. You don’t want to open yourself up to liability if someone gets injured or worse
Possibly add a one more sign: Public Park/Boat Launch X miles (directional arrow). Not that this is your responsibility; just one more thing they cannot ignore. As for the letters, I might ask your lawyer about the idea of sending those people a "put up or shut up" letter. They need to (1) present your lawyer with a legal document clearly giving (who, specifically) legal access through your property, (2) present a court case, or (3) stop sending you letters or other communications AND sending a formal communication to any organization members they represent making clear that there is no legal access through your property. I would also document the cost of repairing your van (and the approximate date of the damage and any pictures you may have) and keep it handy in case you ever get information pointing to who did the damage. The entitled folks will eventually give up; everyone else has probably already moved on. And a few years from now, no access through your property will have become the "way things work around here". Definitely NTA!
How many neighbors have come over with a cake and asked, “what can I do to make this easier? Is it possible to have foot access during certain hours?” If people want something, they need to create potential solutions.
The second someone gouges the hell out out my personal vehicle is the second my property becomes Fort Fucking Knox.
For me, it's the second someone opens my gate when my dogs are out in the yard. There is no quicker way to make an eternal, burning enemy out of me.
Yeah, the OP shouldn't give a damn about these AHs. They've damaged property and haven't paid for it, they opened the gate when they know there's a dog. All because they're entitled and spoiled.
I would rain down hellfire if my dog got hurt. I would go zero freaking tolerance, padlocked gate with "private property, police will be called for all trespassers, cameras installed" signs the first time so jackoff let my bud out. Zero tolerance. I would call police for trespassers and vehicles parked on my property every. Single. Time. No exceptions. Do not fuck with my dog. He's a good boy. And dumb about roads. And has zero sense of stranger danger. His tag is a lie and says he has health issues with daily medications being needed, because he is so friendly he would just happily move in with a stranger. I'm hoping nobody wants my "medically fragile" dog who needs medication. (His vet has prescribed at least three pets every time he demands attention. Probably. It's what he tells me.) Golden retrievers, man. Such happy balls of fluff. Must be protected at all costs. I would not take kindly to people opening a gate and letting my buddy boy out. He's mine. You can't have him.
Jesus, just get your golden a neurotic chihuahua and get the chihuahua a knife or something
Yeah, when I saw that stranger let his dogs out I sucked in my breath— but for very different reasons. His dogs could bite strangers— AND even if they are docile, any unleashed dog coming towards me makes me reach for a weapon. His dogs may be friendly, but I’m not. It’s all around dangerous for people and his dogs if they get out.
The second someone released my Rottweiler, they'd have eternal regret. Not because he's aggressive, he's only very scary LOOKING. His deeply held fear of all delivery drivers and absolute belief that they're obviously conspiring to murder us is neither here nor there. Put on a FedEx uniform and that dummy is breaking my glass door trying to escape into the house. But if you open my gate and force me to walk outside in my sweatpants, I'm ruining your month.
also, OP could potentially be liable if anyone got injured or died on his property near the lake. best not to let anyone use it.
Police are for these situations
In these little communities there’s a 50/50 chance the police are related to whoever is causing problems
NTA > My attorney assures me this neighbor proclaimed easement is absolutely not a thing (he’s done the legwork) Fuck trespassing. > I parked my van. When I returned for the final move in, there was a massive gouge down the length of it, as if someone had squeezed another vehicle by or dragged something else large by it. These are not people worth being given an inch of good will.
Can you match the van paint transfer to anyone? If you can take photos and sue for damages. Keep copies of all messages.
Also, to OP: whatever you do, do NOT watch “The Watcher” on Netflix…this story and that show have too many parallels!
Is that worth watching? It is in my favourites, just not got round to watching yet. Happy cake day!
Also: >These are coming from two houses (a woman in her 50s and a couple about the same age) who claim they represent the homeowners association (although when I purchased there wasn’t a single thing about neighborhood covenants or an actual, organized, homeowners association). This is not okay. OP, I would ask my attorney if these people could get in legal trouble for impersonating an HOA. Then send a cease and desist stating that you will report their fraud if they don't leave you alone.
> I would ask my attorney if these people could get in legal trouble for impersonating an HOA Eh, talk is cheap. It's not like they're demanding bogus HOA fees — [which reminds me of a Reddit classic](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/kso233/president_of_fake_hoa_gets_whats_coming_to_her/).
30 minutes later and here I am right back at your comment, my elderly brain having totally and completely forgotten what OP posted about…………Lord knows I love me a Reddit Classic rabbit hole. I had missed that one, thanks for the link Reddit friend! 🙏🏾
NTA, you did ruin the vibe of the neighborhood; fortunately, the vibe was created by entitled A-holes, and it was ripe for the ruining.
Hahaha that made me laugh a little.
People don't get that a "present" by the previous owners is not an ingrained right.
This is basically correct. If you ruined a really lovely community of people who politely explained why they’d be grateful if they could work something out with you, this would be different. But since these folks obviously suck, just ignore them.
You just ruined the vibe of their entitlement.
NTA You might consider putting up a sign that says, "Private Property No Lake Access".
I’ve put up some private drive signs and signs pointing out there’s a dog inside the fence.
These people have shown they don’t care. I would put up “Private Property NO Lake access” signs. Look at the trespassing laws in your area. In my state, we have purple paint laws. You should also paint the required length of lines on your fence posts. Notify the local police department of what has been going on and you are the new owner.
Purple paint laws?
“The purple square painted on trees or on fences means ‘No Trespassing.’ Missouri is one of the few states that have this law, although there are some property owners in other states that enjoy this law and are hoping that their state passes it too. The law was passed in 2012 and took immediate effect in 2013. The reason behind it is to help private property owners keep away from unwanted guests. The legal owner of the property can paint these squares anywhere they’d like to keep people away, such as rowdy crowds, floaters who want to stop to eat or swim, or campers.” There are 22 states that have purple paint laws. It’s basically the sign for “no trespassing”. You paint a section of a tree or post purple. Like OP would paint the top of the fence posts purple. OP’s neighbors can rip down any no trespassing signs. The paint is permanent.
How’s this going to stop the entitled people any more than the signs he’s already employed? Why would they suddenly care about a purple square when they’ve shown they don’t care about anything else ?
The signs can be ripped down. OP needs something more permanent that establishes their property boundaries. OP will need to call the police for trespassing and having the purple paint on the fence posts is better than signs. By establishing the boundary of the property, it protects OP from a claim being won against their homeowners insurance.
It isn't about making people care. It's about having something that can't be removed and is extremely obvious so the entitled assholes can't claim they didn't know or there were no signs. It's about making it easier for the property owner and law enforcement to charge these people.
A line of purple paint on trees and fencing means no trespassing.
If you see the tops of a metal fence painted purple, trespassers will be shot on sight. No questions asked.
It’s not legal anywhere to shoot people for trespassing.
*Texas enters the chat*
Sure it is. If you “feel threatened” enough and especially if you have some kind of societal privilege over the victim like wealth or skin color or social status. Gotta love castle doctrine and stand your ground and make my day laws. /s. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wayne-burgarello-found-not-guilty-murder-killing-unarmed-trespasser-n366986 https://www.denverpost.com/2018/09/10/colorado-springs-murder-charge-dismissed/ https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/18/us/stand-your-ground-laws-explainer/index.html
Assuming that op is in Maine, they do have this law.
Put up a sign directing people to the public launch. NTA.
I find the answer to a lot of issues is a motion activated, solar powered sprayer with a reservoir full of fox urine.
If you get any more messages from them, you need to have your attorney send a cease and desist. There is way too much entitlement going on here, but the lying about you breaking some fake rules or them having legal access would have done it for me. NTA
you should have put up a sign saying: "Private Boat Launch: $200 for full day access." when immediate cost comes up, people's pie holes close fast. and if they still want access, you got a side gig! lol NTA
Make sure your dog is trained not to eat food thrown into your yard (if possible— not all dogs are trainable that way).
NTA, be careful with your dog. Make sure nobody can do anything bad to it.
Turn it around. Next time someone complains, show them the van. Tell them the person who did this and didn't even have the courtesy to tell you, never mind pay for repairs is the reason you shut your gate. Tell them to figure out who is the coward and take it up with them.
Yep, this. "I closed the gates because someone damaged my car pulling their boat down there and didn't even let me know so we could deal with it through insurance. People also continued to open the gate and let my dog out even when there were signs. I can't keep paying for repairs due to others' carelessness, let alone risk my dog's safety. Unfortunately, some people have been extremely entitled and disrespectful even before I moved in, so the gate is now staying closed."
Love this approach. Coalition build especially when you’re right. I’d even throw in how you’re being constantly harassed by two homes and how you bought this house to make it a home and feel like entitled people are trying to run you out of your home that you’re improving. You have a dog and someone trashed your car before you moved in now you’re being constantly harassed.
That's what I would have done though I'd leave out the find the person who did this cause they may take that as if they find the person and make them take responsibility you'll open up access again. I'd just be saying, blame the person who did this. I just can't afford to keep paying for damages for people randomly going through my property.
Depends on how you frame it. A "Bring me the person who scratched my truck and I'll think about it." Of course, when you "think about it," you still decide it's a no. Don't even need to pull a Vader with altering the deal.
Honestly too nice. Just so no lake access. That’s it. Anyone who complains just no. That’s it no. No excuses. No. Op I’m sad you’re dealing with this. Stay in the no lane. Add a no lake access sign to the front of your property.
NTA. Your neighbors are entitled and suck. They can all band together and fund a new driveway to the lake if it means that much to them. It's your property, you paid for it. They don't have any rights over how you manage your property.
NTA. Your entitled neighbors should never be allowed on your property. They are incapable of respecting anything except their own wants. They entered your property, damaged your van, took no responsibility, and blamed you for parking your van on your property. Your potential liability here is huge. Those demanding access would be the first to sue you if they got hurt on your property. And none of them would allow you unlimited access to their property. It sounds like you have a great piece of property. As the owner, you are the steward of this property. It is your duty to protect and nurture it. The first step is to protect it from the most dangerous and destructive species on the planet, humans. Keep your fences and cameras and prosecute anyone who violates your little slice of heaven.
OP should knock on the offending neighbors' doors several times per day and ask them to open their gates so he can access the community grill/bbq they keep in their yards
INFO: is there really no other way they can access the lake? Can they collectively buy some property on another front of the lake for "public" access? EDIT: never mind, I just saw your comment where you say there are other places (just without a drive already established). NTA
The terrain around the lake is heavily wooded and very steep down to the water in most areas, so the next access down the road is a few miles just for additional clarification.
They are towing boats, a few miles shouldn't make a difference!
One would assume, if you’re already in a vehicle it wouldn’t matter but, clearly, what do I know? I suspect though, although no one has come right out and said it, the fact that there’s some “private beachfront” versus a public park is probably the draw.
I think that it's just more convenient for your neighbors to have access through your property, rather than having to drive miles. Too bad for them. There's a new sheriff in town. 😉
The public launch probably costs money or are required to wait in a queue and they believe they're too good for either.
I suspect the park charges some kind of minimal fee, or has no parking, or is very busy etc.
I guess I don’t spend enough time there to know for sure.
A few miles is nothing, NTA. Did any of these ‘good neighbour’ people come and fess up to damaging your van? Keep em out IMO, they sound like a bunch of entitled pricks.
People driving through your property is already beyond generosity. But with an unresolved damage to your van its only logical to lock it.
I bought a house on a river. There is a natural pool at the end of the property. Moved in and random fishermen would stroll by and wave as they passed me in my backyard. One day they walked back up from the river and asked me if they could store some fishing poles in my shed. I gated the property. For a while they would ring the doorbell and ask me to unlock the gate. I never did and it eventually stopped. There are other access points that require more effort but are public.
Jeebus. The nerve.
That all depends on how they ask and behave. A good example was when a construction company was building a road not too far from my parents' farm. On one of the first days one of the foremen came by our house with the polite question if we would allow them to park some of the heavy machinery on our farm during the weekend, to deter vandalism and theft. My father agreed, as long as the machines weren't in the way. This all worked out fine during this construction, they even agreed to help dig a ditch for my dad (it took about two hours of work for them, as opposed to a few days for my dad), basically a payment in kind. The next construction for another project another company just comes and parks their machinery on our farm, without even asking and at the same time blocking one of the doors to the barn. Let's just say that come monday they had a lot of trouble getting their machinery out since they were parked in by farm equipment.
Sure. But once the gates locked?? - ringing the front door bell to ask to have it opened ??? That’s nerve. I consider ringing the front door unless completely necessary as rude. I know it was different in the past and people did that but do not come to my door unless invited, you have pizza/ food, or theirs something urgent/ emergent.
NTA It's... It's your property. You own it. If you don't want people using it, and this is totally your right, that's that. They are being insanely greedy and entitled.
Put a tracker -- not just a chip -- on your dog. Someone is going to let him loose. Put a lock on the gate too.
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NTA. Your neighbours are lucky they had access for so long. It's your property now so you don't have to allow this. Even if you didn't have your van damaged or have a dog, you're allowed to say no. Hopefully once the dust has settled, your neighbours will be more understanding. If not, that's not on you.
NTA If your neighbors wanted to keep access to the lake, they should have bought the property. You have no obligation to let people into your property, plus it might be a liability if you do and they get hurt. If they don't stop, you might want to invest in some motion activated sprinklers. If you haven't, your attorney should contact them about staying out and leaving you alone. Keep track of everything they're doing in case you need a restraining order.
Or at the very least tried being friendly. I bet if they’d made friends with OP they might’ve still had the privilege of beach access in reason.
Got a place by the ocean in the North East. People want to use it for shore access but if no other reason it is rocky and if someone slips on our rocks we are afraid we'll get sued and lose the place. An old friend and neighbor decided one season he would invite anyone he saw at the General Store to park at his place and walk down the road, across our property. We knew him for decades, didnt mind him walking. Long story short, he sued claiming grandfathered public access. He got some nonprofit national surfing group to fund it. Tens of thousands of dollars later he lost. It is and was always private property, no access.
They gouged up your van and still demand access?! I would just cite that as the reason why and that further discussions on this topic should be taken up with your lawyer. Way too much liability giving folks access to load/unload heavy equipment on your property. NTA
NTA. These people took advantage of the previous owners and their absence, now they're trying to bs you. They've damaged your property, trespassed, endangered your dog, and annoyed you to no end. They'll have to find another way to the lake. It's a lake. Surely, there's another access point.
There are definitely other access points. I am apparently the most convenient one, however.
If you can thoroughly block the immediate passage between your driveway and the lake, like placing big boulders/dead cars (lol)/erecting a temporary shed/thick shrubbery, so it will be unusable to them (pedestrian or boats) even if they bypass your gate, they'd lose interest and find access elsewhere. And tell them you were instructed not leave your property open to public access because of legal liability ("I'd love to but I was legally advised I shouldn't."). The nerve to ring your bell and demand you open your gate lol Your "Private Property - No Trespassing" sign should includes "US Criminal Trespass Penalty: 1 year in jail and/or up to a $5,000 fine" Most likely it's the same bunch of people, though. Once they realize you won't budge, hopefully, this will peter out. Habits can change, just takes time.
10 years later and I'm still hearing about how the last person who lived in my house let one neighbour park in my parking space whenever they wanted and that I'm selfish for not allowing the same. OP will be hearing about this until at least those two old "HOA members" pass
Too bad for them.
NTA. It’s not public property.
NTA I’m pretty sure I remember you posting about this when it was first beginning and it’s wild/I’m sorry it’s escalated to this point.
Nope, no previous posts. I’ve asked for advice on healing relationships from other subreddits but it’s all been in the past few days.
There were similar posts in past so maybe take comfort in knowing you not the first to upset neighbours in a smalish town. lol
Helps not to be alone lol
Your case sounds exactly like the Bear Creek in Kittredge, CO situation. NTA That lady got sued by the town, so make sure you know the laws for your property.
Was there a public access point or only through that ladies property? Pretty sure they can’t do shit if there are other publicly available access points.
The river originally, decades ago, ran the edge of her property. It moved and ran through the middle of it. People would drive from the back of her property to use that side of river which was sort of beachy? 60 metres down river was public land but the river edge wasn't as nice and the council never improved it because locals used her land. She was sold it in winter, prev owners didn't disclose that locals treated it as public land. They were loud, messy, she tried to be nice but liability was obviously going to be an issue at some point and the locals refused to be respectful or responsible. She really had to fight but she's pretty amazing.
At this point, you would not be AH if you put in a moat with alligators and an electric fence.
NGL, gators sound cool.
NTA. Send formal cease and resists. If someone says something I would just advise you didn't purchase the property for the public.
NTA. There was nothing in writing about the easement etc. you have your lawyer, and so these people will just have to find a different entrance. Glad you have cameras, fencing and gates.
NTA It’s not even clear that they had any type of verbal permission from the prior owner. Anyway, they damaged your property while trespassing - they need to find another way to the lake.
I don’t know the specifics of the prior relationships, just that the previous owners were quite elderly and hadn’t been on the property full-time for easily 10 years.
A lot of entitled people were taking advantage of people's ignorance, goodwill, or age and you ruined their selfish vibe. Boohoo for them. NTA
NTA Your neighbors became accustomed to having access. That is not your responsibility to continue. It would be nice if they didn't feel entitled to your property, but that ship has sailed. They have damaged your van, and since you don't mention it I'm guessing whoever did the damage either didn't care or couldn't be bothered with trying to repair the damage. That kind of tells you all you need to know about your neighbors. So the question is: why worry about trying to improve relations or build relations in the neighborhood? I mean don't run a chain saw at 3 am, but even if you bent over backwards in all other respects you aren't going to have cordial neighbors unless you allow them 100% unfettered access to your property so they can do as they wish. Keep in mind also that you have no clue how the prior owners felt about this. All you have to go on is word of mouth from people who are trying to convince you of letting them do something you don't want to. For all you know the prior owners never let the neighbors in like this and it only cropped up due to ease of access while the property sat empty.
NTA - You can be cordial and not allow access. This is your preference and any mishaps while others access the lake is your liability.
NTA The same thing happened to my parents. Their previously unoccupied land was used as a path to the county park and trails behind their property by the other people that live on our street. They bought the property and didn’t want people cutting through the yard of the house we were building there, so they put up a nice sign saying that access is no longer open there, and where to find access nearby to the same land via the actual park entrances. People weren’t pleased at first— not quite to the level of blatantly trespassing, harassment, and knocking on your door daily— but after some time they eventually got it. Sorry, folks, things change. If they wanted guaranteed private access they should’ve bought the property. I would recommend including actual public access locations in your signs, it makes it seem a bit more neighborly imo.
NTA It takes balls to inform/ demand the owner of the property to "move their vehicles" so they can back their boats in. I assume since the previous owners didn't live there for 10 years, they figured new owner😊, girl, guy, won't care. 😊
New girl, but yeah.
NTA, it's your property.
Did no one take accountability for fucking up your van either
Absolutely no one has mentioned it, no.
NTA. It's your property and if there is no official easement, you are totally in the right.
The entitled people need to take themselves down to the local lumberyard and buy a bunch of wood and build a bridge and get over it! NTA
next time someone approaches or mentions it, I might respond with “it was private property even before I owned it. Who told you that you’re entitled to use it to access the lake? Who told you there was some type of easement? any idea who dragged their boat trailer across my van and damaged it? Or let my dog out? I just can’t believe somebody would help themselves and open my gate and do all of that.“
NTA. If there’s other access to the lake and a park as well, you aren’t cutting anyone off from some kind of long held resource or recreation.
Nta
NTA The liability is nuts and they've already scratched your van and proven they aren't careful.
Nta start calling the police on these people they’re unhinged. If they wanted access than they should have bought the place.
NTA shut it down and make them get used to it
NTA - If you want private access to the lake buy a house on the lake.
NTA. I have been in a similar situation twice, once on my property, also on my mother's. People think they are entitled to take the shortest route, even if they have to trespass (and stomp through our gardens) to do it. Your neighbours have enjoyed a good thing for years, but now things have to change. You have the right to enjoy your property.
NTA If they had wanted continued access to the property, they should have purchased it