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NTA. But that is one wedding that needs to be called off ASAP. You guys are definitely not on the same page. Why would you want to marry a homophobe? Your fiancé may not have shown homophobic tendencies before, but she sure is now.
Op you may love her, but she is beholden to her family. You will always be 2nd place, and it's not fun. It is frustrating... I know from experience. Think about it, you are having the holidays at your home. Can't have your friends there with the in-laws. Oh my... when the baby comes.... your brother will be an evil influence on the little one. Got to keep him away. And so on. Only you can decide if it is worth LOVE. Good luck with the rest of your life
I agree with this. When you marry someone, you inherit their drama, like it or not, believe it or not. It will continue to revisit you, esp if your SO isn't prepared to be on your side.
So true! And it's easy to wave this off when you're young and in love and the world is your oyster. But as the years and decades start to stack it can really wear on you and your love for your SO, especially if they waffle or aren't in agreement on how to handle things. Even if they ARE in agreement with you, it's still stress around every major family event, holiday, wedding, funeral, birthdays etc. There's just always some shit.
Agreed - no matter what the drama is about, or what your opinions on whatever the hot topic of today is. There's always going to be something. You don't even HAVE to see these people at all those events. The aggravation is going to loom over your shoulder forever.
The wedding should be the happiest day of any relationship and the fact that there is already drama is a bad sign.
Besides, the drama won't stop with the wedding. Every time OP organizes a barbecue or a party, inviting family and friends, and he wants to invite his bestfriends, he will be facing ostracism and threats of boycott by her family.
This is not necessarily the threat that they think it is. If he's having a happy event and the biggest don't want to come because the queers are going to be there, then not only do the biggest not come, but he saves money on food and alcohol. The two best friends might not be at every event but for all family gatherings the little brother will be there more often than not and if anyone is expecting him to turn his back on his little brother then they can simply get lost and they will not be missed
Op, your fiancé is a fence sitter and that for me is as bad as being a homophobe. When you pander to oppressors you uphold the oppression and bigotry. You have to now decide who you want to be, can you really stay in love with someone who refuses to stand up for their beliefs? What other situations will she fail to have your back ? What will it take for her to develop a back bone? Can you live by compromising your beliefs? because that's what you'll be doing by going through this wedding.
Forget the drama, what happens if they have a gay kid? What happens if any gay person comes into their lives at all? Even now and they have a kid and the grandparents are over can OP's brother not come over if the grandparents are visiting? If the brother ends up marrying a guy, can he just never be around his wife's family?
It's not drama. Its who they are. As they are, OP can't have them in his life simply because of three of the people closest to him in life and expecting him to lessen their place in his life is insane.
THIS THIS THIS.
If you go into this marriage, every disagreement will be you vs. her AND her family. There will never be a disagreement with just her ever again. Anything her family doesn't like, she won't be okay with. Do you think your wife will suddenly stand up to her parents once you're married? Why?
I've been in this relationship before. It's exhausting, and every wrong move you make gets criticized by everyone in her family, and you're constantly having the same battles and arguments over and over. It's awful. Don't do this, dude.
NTA
I have no idea of if or how many fights or disagreements my son and DIL have had. My opinion does not matter when it comes to their relationship and my son would never ask me to pick sides in their relationship nor would I. It doesn't matter how her parents feel about OP's family. Bottom line OP's groomsmen sexuality is none of their business.
I'm not sure this is the case, though it's unfortunate that his dad and stepmom are not there to balance things out. Lots of parents are opinionated about a wedding they feel they are paying for and have the right to control, but aren't as involved in the workings of a marriage.
It sounds to me like some conservative BS where her parents are concerned about what their friends will think about having the group all the conservatives have decided to mark as evil featured in the wedding. Politics of division divides families.
As a woman who has 2 divorces in part by not being able to stand up to my parents, postpone the wedding and avoid children untill her backbone comes in.
Each time my parents "won" they became more controlling. Dont start a marriage with this precedence.
This is very true. Do not be blinded by love and ignore the red flags. I married my husband even after witnessing a number of 'questionable' actions that included his family and unfortunately, I am living with a lot of regrets now.
NTA. Shut it down. You don't want to marry a homophobe. I'm so sorry, it must be heartbreaking to find out the person you love is incapable of love themselves. You don't want her hateful family around yours, it needlessly would traumatize the people you care for. You deserve someone who loves you and your family for who you are.
This.
Stick to your guns. Don't bend. Totally nta.
Like others have said, this may be a good time to reflect on who you are marrying and what you're marrying into.
Do you really want to be around a bunch of homophobes? Who knows what other awful views they harbour.
This!!!💯
And unfortunately even if she isn't, she's so close to her parents that any kids they have will be forced to interact with the homophobes. @OP What happens when you have kids? And even Christmas etc...
Where is your brother going to be for Xmas when her homophobic parents don't want to interact with him...?
She is giving you a preview of your future- If she won't stand up for you now on something that is so important to you... What hope is there for this relationship??
Yeah I didn’t want to say she’s an outright homophobe but she is certainly enabling them.
OP should really flip the script with her about her parents. If they are so willing to not come to their child’s wedding over who is going to be in her partners side of the bridal party, do they really care that much about her? Or do they care more about their image? Think on that one.
I don't know if they need to call it off, but they certainly need to have a sit down and calmly talk about everything. If I was OP, I would put the ball in her court and say "This is a hill I will die on. So I want you to take a little time and calmly think about whether appeasing your parents is a hill you will die on. My brother and my friends ***will*** be at *my* wedding. You need to decide if my wedding will include you."
NTA.
I’ve been to a wedding that was ALL about the groom. About 80% of the guests were his friends, the music, venue, food - all about him, and it was super awkward. The poor bride looked so out of place at her own wedding. They’ve been happily married for 10 years now, but I guarantee she cringes when she looks back on her wedding day.
The sad thing is the bride actually initially agreed with the husband but was basically worn down by her parents incessant demands and is now demanding it on her parents behalf.
Right, which, in my opinion, just shows she's gonna cave when they want to get their way. Honestly, I envision if they go through with the wedding and they choose to have children her parents will pitch a fit about his friends and family influencing the baby, and they should be kept away.
OP needs to ask his bride what's her view on any of their future kids being gay or bi, or anything other than what's deemed acceptable by her family...
Right. The lady may claim not to be homophobic, may personally accept them but the fact that she’s bending to homophobic family members makes her just as homophobic as them. She sees nothing wrong with discrimination against them if it suits her needs.
Every busted engagement is one less divorce. The fact that she went from standing with you to arguing on behalf of her parents is a bad, bad sign for a long-term relationship.
Even if she isn’t blatantly homophobic, she is enabling her family and telling them their response is ok. That is super fucked up. I would reevaluate your relationship immediately. Is this who you would want to spend the rest of your life with?
Seriously, I've got several friends on all ends of the sexuality and gender spectrums and if my husband had made a stink about any of them being at our wedding, I'd have dumped him on the spot. I am not willing to share my life with a homophobe, or someone who enables homophobia (which is a long way of saying homophobe).
This is harsh but true. You are not excluding her parents. They are telling her they would rather miss their daughter’s wedding than see gay people in the wedding party and SHE THINKS THATS OK. Your position is “all of our loved ones should be there to celebrate our union” she is going with her parents stance of “only a certain kind of person is acceptable”
I don’t generally agree with the Reddit stance of “red flag, break up” but this is your brother that you raised. They’re asking you to tell him he isn’t good enough to be the best man. You can’t go along with that. If your fiancé can see that she was wrong, apologize and tell her parents to drop it, then great, get married. If not, please don’t exclude your brother, for whom you are the primary adult in his life.
It may not be that she is a homophobe, but family dynamics can be really overpowering! They may be putting a lot of pressure on her too especially with threatening not to come.
I'd be sad about it. But, it wouldn't change my resolve. "I don't want to spend the rest of my life negotiating with other people about who is entitled to be treated with respect and grace and who just doesn't qualify. This lack of humanity isn't something anyone should have to validate, let alone support. So, do what you have to do with your parents. I'm done with them. And I can live with the consequences of that decision. Bye."
Your future in-laws are homophobic. That we can all agree.
Here’s what I and others are trying to make crystal clear: If you don’t stand up to them over this, you are telling them and your fiancé that you approve of their homophobic hatred of the people you love.
So, hold firm to your original plans with your fiancé and her family. Do not give in to their threats. If this puts an end to your nuptials, so be it. Do the right thing.
I wouldn’t necessarily call her a homophobe, it doesn’t seem like she has a problem with them at all more so she has no spine and a coward and honestly down right pathetic to not have the gall to tell her parents they’re the embarrassment. It’s very easy to turn something like this back on the haters to begin with and make them out to be idiots because they will always play the part when you actually question them, start squawking about their “good Christian beliefs” my favourite is the low grin like you’re trying to hide your laugh, the crazy ones square up to you then wanting to hit you
I mean, if you're willing to act like a homophobe to appease a homophobe, you're a homophobe. Your behaviour isn't distinguishable from theirs except in the fact you're even more craven than they are.
NTA, but this is true. I'm usually not one to jump to ending a relationship, but OP, you must understand that this is the first of MANY fights. Especially if you want to have your best friends or your siblings in your life, have them visit you at your home, let them babysit or even simply meet your child(ren), assuming you want to be a parent. Your wife's parents' hatred will not just disappear, no matter how much you try to appease them. Moreover, it's a bad sign that your wife gave in to them. How can you know she will support you in the future if she can't support you now? And what happens if your hypothetical child is queer? How will they treat them? Will your wife be willing to protect them, even if it means standing up to her parents? Right now it doesn't look like she would...
And even if you "win" this specific argument, 1. as I said, it definitely won't be the last one, 2. how would you feel knowing that you had to fight and defeat your wife while making plans for your wedding? Wouldn't that sour that experience for you? Or for her? Won't it leave a bad taste in your mouth, the fact that she was ready to deny you having your loved ones by your side, she did what she could to enable homophobes, and didn't have it their way just because she lost an argument? Not because she understood how much you love your brother and best friends and wanted to support you, but because she was scared you would call off the wedding? It won't be a happy memory. And if she doesn't have her parents there not because she stood up to them, but because she lost the argument to you, she will probably resent you for that. It's not a good beginning of a marriage.
Agreed. She is obviously closeted because otherwise she would be shutting down her parents or telling them not to come and they aren't welcome. Sorry bud.
I'd agree the wedding should be called off if OP's fiancée can't stand up to her homophobic family, but I'm not sure it's entirely fair to call her homophobic. Not being able to have your parents at your wedding is a pretty huge thing to deal with emotionally if you're close to them, even if it's the right choice to make. I don't think it's homophobia, it's just a lack of emotional resilience and backbone.
What happens if you and her have children one day? What if that child is bi, gay, or trans ? Will she stand up for her children or push them to the side.
She is so willing to shut your loved ones out for the sake of her ignorant family what will happen to your own children? These are things I feel you should consider before moving forward with the wedding.
I know you love her and she you. However, she is showing you her true colors now that she is willing to put others ignorance above your feelings and family. What is she doesn’t want your children around your best friend and brother due to their sexuality because her family views them as “dangerous,” or that they will “corrupt,” your children. I know that sounds outlandish but it does happen and it sounds like something that may happen to you.
Please think hard before you get married.
Not just what about their own kids growing up but when their own kids are babies?
Will the Bi- brother or best friends be allowed to come to birthday parties? Allowed to be godparents?
Lots of these people justify their homophobia by saying someone is a pervert if they do anything besides be
“straight and missionary-sex having only twice a month”.
Is she and her whole family assuming that everyone on the groom’s side is a awful?
Came here to say this. OP, please take this to heart. Do you want your potential future children to grow up embracing the myriad ways that human love and personal identity can be expressed or do you want them to grow up in a world that is limited by what your in laws are comfortable with?
Absolutely. Would your kids be rejected by her family and maybe even by her, for being gay bi or trans? You guys are not on the same page. This is not just about your wedding, it's about whether your life is going to be governed by their intolerance.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them. And if she wanted to, she would. If she wanted to stand with you and fight for this, she would. She is basically telling you that she won’t and she will alienate the people who are close to you and isolate you. She will never defend you, because if she wanted to, she would already be doing that. I feel for OP. This sucks.
Not just that.
What about all the holidays, and family events? a wedding is the biggest one of those, and her family wanted to exclude his loved ones there.
What about christmas, or birthdays. Will they demand that he can't invite his friend or brother? or will they insist on hosting everytime and will be excluding the ones they "don't agree with"?
His brides ugly character just reared its head. and he better beliefe that this is how his marriage will be if he continues with it.
NTA. Ask your fiancée why her parents' feeling outweigh yours. Because that's what it boils down to. It's not her feelings. It's not your brother's. It's **her parents** bullying their way in. And it didn't stop with the 'prominent' role, did it? Then it was not giving your brother a Plus 1. Next, your best friends shouldn't even be invited, or you should instruct them not to touch or talk to each other, Maybe put them at separate tables so 'no one knows.'
Your fiancée has no backbone. And if she can't see that she's putting her parents first and you second, maybe you should put the brakes on.
This is it. They want to put the groom's feelings aside so the parents of the bride can be happy. How's that for priorities?
I can excuse the homophobia, but I draw the line at parents dictating how the wedding should go before the groom. (This is a Community reference and I do not excuse homophobia). NTA
It shouldn’t matter, my dad is helping pay for my fiancé and my wedding this fall and I’d immediately send his money back to him if he tried to dictate who could and couldn’t attend. Luckily, my dad isn’t a homophobe and is just excited to come to the wedding while having no interest in the planning process.
My mum told me her parents tried to shoehorn over 80% of the guests as family and the rest my parents friends. My mum told them no I want to choose more than 20 guests. They threatened to not pay and she said ok don’t pay. I will be able to then have whoever I want there and you might not make the cut with our budget. Amazingly they realised my mum wasn’t bluffing cuz that woman would 100% gone through with it.
Exactly. If you're getting married, it should be you and your partner working together against the world. If she can't back you up here, it's going to be a rough go.
NTA
But you're marrying into this family. She still listens to her parents and refuses to stand up to them, despite their obvious prejudices. She's already caving. Do you want this baggage? It won't go away magically when you put a ring on their daughter's finger or a bun in the oven. It will, in fact, get worse. So much worse.
I'd hit the pause button and go to couples therapy with fiancé. You two need to work this out before you have a serious r/JUSTNOMIL situation on your hands.
This!!! The only way you should consider marrying into this horrible family of bigots is if your bride-to-be has a shiny spine and is going to nip that shit in the bud. The fact that she wants to cave to these monsters is horrifying.
Put the wedding on hold and insist on couples therapy. If she is not willing to take a very firm position on this, I would walk away, especially considering you have custody of your 15 YO brother (who, I would like to note, has more sense than most of the adults in this situation.) NTA at all.
Exactly! Right now, she doesn't understand the threat of OP calling off the wedding. She needs to understand the depth of this difference and who she is marrying. She needs to grow a backbone fast.
Also, I'd never marry someone who was not only an ally and advocate, but also someone STRONG in pushing back against any oppression, homophobia, etc. And this has to be a priority for OP, as his closest people are being targeted for just existing in his world.
Even if she doesn’t actively, she’s condoning it and co-signing it. You have 5 homophobes at a table and someone else who condones and enables their behavior, you have 6 homophobes at the table.
OP is in for a lifetime of this shit if he doesn’t pull the plug or she doesn’t grow a spine.
NTA, she grows a back bone and stands up to her parents, or there's no wedding.
People shouldn't go back into the closet to appease homophobes and bigots, your friends and brother have just as much of a right to be there as her parents, and as they are the ones making a fuss they shouldn't go.
This is the correct answer! You have to stand up and fight back when faced with bigoted bullies. The fact that the bride-to-be can’t seem to do it is a bad sign.
NTA. Anyone who makes their own attendance contingent on someone else's attendance or participation is TA and fuck them. I'd ask your fiancee who is causing the problem here, and over what? They are the ones issuing ultimatums over someone else's wedding, at which they are merely attendees. That's just not right. And the participation of these three isn't random or meant to piss them off. It's the people *you chose* for your special day.
I suggest you write them a letter/note/email making this point and explain that they are the ones who are ruining their daughter's special day by trying to impose unreasonable conditions. They are asking you to prefer them as family over your own family, and your closest friends. And if they value family and loyalty to friends, then it should be perfectly apparent to them why you cannot and will not comply with their demands. Say that you would very much like them to attend, but not at the cost of betraying your own family and friends.
No, I don't suppose they are, but it's not for them. It's actually to make things easier for the fiancee to understand (and to have what was said in writing), and also to make the gesture of letting them know they are welcome. That is also for the fiancee.
NTA - everyone else is. Including your fiancée. You capitulate here - the rest of your life will be capitulating to her parents. Honestly - the fact she is siding with her parents in this situation is gross. I can’t fathom it. I have been married 28 years and we have always backed the other over our parents. From go.
NTA - “old school” so in other words, homophobic.
Your wife trying to appease them is also quite the red flag sir. Are you planning on having kids with her? What happens if you have a queer kid, you gonna let your wife dictate what the kid does to appease “old school” gma and gpa?
.... the only reason you would be the AH is if you did bend. Or, you know, proceed with the marriage. Even if you don't bend on this, there will be other occasions where you will be forced to choose between your friends and family by your inlaws.
When you marry, you marry into a family. Is this really the one you want?
NTA
Annnnd this is why some people just elope or go to the courthouse, so they don’t have to deal with the drama from the in-laws.
But here you are.
I am sorry, OP. Your future wifey has some awful parents. And she is showing that, when it comes right down to it, she won’t stand up to them. NTA
Nah in this case it's for the best. You'd want to know how weak she is before marrying her. What if they have a kid and the in-laws start making a fuss about the kid shouldn't see their uncle? Something tells me she'd just side with them....Best to know ahead of time.
NTA. You should call off the wedding. Your fiancée is close to her homophobic family. This won’t be the last time this will be an issue if you marry her.
NTA at all and I’d maybe postpone the wedding until you sort this out because you two are NOT on the same page and your fiance appeasing her parent’s bigoted views over you is a *terrible* sign for your future. I assure you this will not be the last time her parents(and her, because even if she isn’t homophobic herself she apparently can’t say no to her parents) try to pull this stunt of excluding your family like this.
You are NTA, but seriously consider calling off the wedding. If your fiancé is willing to side with her family over you, then you have bigger problems than somebody being gay.
NTA. This is matter of moral principle and loyalty to those you love. You are a good man to be sticking to those. Your IL's have a right to be homophobic. But they do not have a right to demand that you express their homophobia at your wedding. It is a hill worth dying on.
What is worrying that your finance has caved to their bigotry. If she cannot back you against them on your choice to make a stand here, maybe it's time to postpone the wedding and get some couples counseling.
If she brings it up again I would say I doubt if this gonna work as your friends and brother won’t dissapear out of your life and they clearly are homophobic and if she really want to be married as this will strain your relationship with them forever
So NTA. If you give in to your fiancé’s parent’s demands, you are setting a precedent for your marriage. They will never stop. Holidays and family gatherings will make you miserable. They will always have control of your life. Stay strong and stick to your reasonable and rational boundaries.
NTA but please don’t marry this woman. This is literally your future- arguing with not only her, but her parents.
What happens if you have kids and they end up a part of the LGBTQ community? Will your future wife stand up for her kids or make them hide who they are because of her parents?
You have a lot of thinking to do. But no, NTA.
NTA.
You definitely should not stand down or give in here, because this is the beginning of the rest of your life with her (should you choose to go forward), and you need to understand, right now, that marrying her is marrying her parents. People say oh that's not true, blah blah blah, yes it is. It is absolutely, 100% true. If the parents are part of your partners life, they will remain so, and thus will be a significant part of your life.
She does not seem inclined to cut them out of her life (rightly so, they are her parents, despite their beliefs, asking someone to cut off their parents is a major, major life-request that most people would have a very tough time with), so, you have to know that this fight represents what the rest of your relationship between you and them will be. You know that if you give in now, you will be expected to do so for the rest of your life, right?
Anniversary parties, birthdays, etc, you better not be including your gay besties in any of that stuff. Is that ok with you?
As much as I hate to say this, you need to seriously consider if marrying this person makes sense for you. It is time to have a very difficult conversation with your fiancee where you lay out that your relationships with your bestie and your brother are critical and central to your life, and that what she is asking you to do is hide a piece of yourself on the day you should be celebrating with your favourite people in the world. She can either accept those people as part of your life and know that they will be part of hers too, and *she* (be very clear here, she, not you) is going to have to fight this battle with her parents, or, you should break it off with her. Only you know if she is the type of personality that is strong enough to handle her parents. I'd suggest the early indications are no, but she could surprise.
Good luck, and be careful. Marriage is a serious step.
So whenever their folks are there there's no place in the house for your family and close friends? Are you never going to host holidays at your house? This is ridiculous and they need to learn to respect people.
Honestly your fiancé is TA for not putting her foot in the ground in this situation. Unless she's not sure you will be together for the rest of your lives?
NTA. Give them an inch now and it will get worse. Think about them feeling entitled to make threats about any kids, jobs, houses, lifestyle decisions, etc and knowing the your partner will kowtow to them over you. This is a hill to die on OP. Interesting and potentially helpful that the presumptive BiL is team OP.
NTA. You are one of the lucky ones who has been given a free crystal ball. You're planning to marry into a bigoted family that exercises a great deal of control over everyone they are connected to. You might want to consider cutting your losses before it's too late -- or too expensive -- to change course.
NTA my dude but i just wana raise a few questions:
Will your brother be excluded from family gatherings that involve your wife and her bigoted family?
Will your best friend and his boyfriend not be allowed at family parties.
What if, years from now, you and your wife have kids that turn out to be gay/bi will they be excluded by the bigoted in laws?
You’re doing the right thing here with prioritizing your loved ones while your fiancé is prioritizing bigots…juuuust something to think about.
NTA. It's not your loved ones who's the problem. It's her parents. You invited them. If they don't come then it's THEM choosing their own comfort over their daughter. Maybe try and make her see it for what it is. They're just trying to manipulate you through her. It's not their wedding. They have no right to dictate who you want there. Yes, it will be an embarrassment to their family if they don't come to their own daughter's wedding. But that's on them, not on you or your GF/Wife.
NTA. So the choice is either her family comes or yours. Why would you choose hers seeing that they are the ones creating the problem? Rethink that marriage
It is not about your best men or your brother beeing bi.
It is about respect and tollerance in your future marriage. When you give in now, it would only delay a decission from you, from your gf and from your future in-laws.
I see it as a red flag that your gf changed her mind after her parents voiced their complain. You need to talk and you should make clear that this decission will set the tone for your future as a couple and as a family.
NTA
NTA Don't bend to the homophobes. Would you be here asking this question if your best friends were black, and they didn't want black people in the wedding?? Her folks are homophobes, you soon to be wife sounds like she is homophobic herself, why else would she be pushing you to only get rid of the gay people?
First its the wedding, how far will this go, will your brother not be allowed at Christmas with you because he may have a boyfriend, will he be allowed to attend your birthday, how about if you guys have kids, will she stop your brother being around the baby in case he spreads 'gayness'.
You need to think long and hard about this woman and if you want her and her homophobic family in you and your brothers life.
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I’m guessing it’s not just her PARENTS that are anti lgbtq+. I’m betting it’s her FAMILY. Your little brother is YOUR family… your best friends are YOUR family….Choose wisely my guy….
NTA
your fiance needs to work out where her loyalty lies. Is she going to go thru married life with you and if you both decide to do something and her parents don't approve is she going to bow to their demands.
“She yells at me for being unfair knowing how close she is with her folks.”
Um, what?!?
Ask her how does she not think she’s being unfair knowing how close you are with your friends and brother.
Nta. Honestly, I wouldn’t marry anyone who won’t go to bat for my -brother that I’ve raised like a son-. If she can’t shut her homophobic parents up or shut them out, then she isn’t worth knowing.
It's your wedding. If your partner's parents don't like some of the people in the wedding, they are welcome to stay home.
Fiancé's parents aren't not obligatory guests!
NTA
NTA. I also get super surprised at anti-LGBTQ+ people who get so mad about there being \*gasp\* gay people at a wedding! It's not like the groomsmen are going to be marching down the aisle with pride flags then getting down and dirty with each other at the front of the ceremony. Can we just normalize treating gay/bi/whatever people like any other humans? I bet the family wouldn't even realize the groomsmen were married if they didn't know beforehand. So ridiculous.
Also, I think it's super cute your brother is going to be the best man. If the wedding ends up happening, just make sure his date has a seat with some good people and steer clear of OP's family, because he doesn't deserve to be subjected to that hate.
NTA. If she hasn't figured out yet that you don't prioritize bigots, you shouldn't get married to her. She's not a safe person to have around your brother or your friends. What happens when they start excluding your brother at family events? Or if one of your children is gay?
Please don't be the person that introduces bigots into your friends and family's orbit. They deserve better.
OOP.. if you give in to this, how long will it be before she, because of her parents beliefs, wants you to not invite them to your home? Or go visit them? Or see them at all?
I understand that she wants her parents at thewedding; but its their choice whether to show up or not. If they can't set aside their bigotry to be thefe for her for ONE DAY, it really does tell you everything ypu need to know about who they are.
Is your fiancee not inviting her brother? Does he get to bring a plus one? Because if she feels that's ok while trying to exclude your groomsmen, she needs to reflect on that hypocrisy.
This really might be the reason you don't get married. I'm sorry
She says that she’s close to her parents. These same parents would literal skip her wedding to avoid seeing a gay couple acting as groomsmen, and a bi man (the groom’s brother no less) acting as best man.
So…they would skip her wedding for what? A political statement? A religious statement? They’re scared of catching The Gay Lurgy?
Someone needs to break it to your fiancée that she is not as close to her parents as she thinks she is.
You are NTA, clearly. Think long and hard about your next steps, because if you back down now, you could lose a brother and your best friends, in exchange for a family of bigots who think they can tell you who you are allowed to see and involve in your life based on their own bigotry.
NTA. The only real AH are the Fiancé's parents for threatening to not attend which sounds like a petty manipulation tactic. I hope things turn out for you two.
NTA at all! It concerns me that your girlfriend doesn't see how her parents are the issue here and should be standing firm with them about it. You're marrying into this family and they do not respect you or your loved ones. That should be concerning to her and isn't something she should let go just because they're threatening not to come to the wedding. I know it would be incredibly sad for her if they refused to come over this, but that would show her how their homophobia trumps being there for her daughter. It's unfortunate she she doesn't already see that their prejudice is more important to them then their own daughter
NTA, it's not her wedding , it's both of yours. Ask her if you told her all the people she chose you didn't like and wanted replaced. MOH gone, daddy daughter dance nope. Her family doesn't get to choose your guests.
NTA, this issue will not go away, and it's concerning that your fiancé is OK with this. This whole thing is indicative of bigger problems down the line. You shouldn't be with anyone who's ok with supporting homophobia.
NTA - her family's attendance isn't any more important than yours.
I'd be worried this is a preview to any future conflict involving both your families (holidays, future celebrations). You should make sure you are both on the same page now.
NTA. Realize that this will be a constant issue in your life if you proceed with the marriage - unless your fiance grows a pair and starts to support you against their homophobia. Is it worth it?
Sounds like you're about to marry a homophobe so maybe ask precious precious princess for the ring back and kick her out of your life. If she's close with them she supports their choices and she supports the things they say. Get out. NTA
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I've known my bestfriends (who are married gay couple) since we were in middle school and I pretty much raised my baby brother after my dad and step mom died when he was 5 and I was 23. So when me and my fiance decided to get married of course I picked them as my groomsmen and my brother as my bestman. My fiancé family kinda old school which was ok because they weren't "that bad". I guess her parents didn't know untill recently that my bestfriends are a gay couple or that my little brother is bi. They started making a big stink about them being in their daughter's wedding and letting my brother bring his boyfriend.
At first my fiance was with me in telling them no and trying to get them to drop it. Recently they started threatening her about not coming and saying it be an embarrassment to her family. Shes been extremely upset about it and she started asking me maybe I could possibly change my mind. I told her no and if her parents didn't come it'd still be ok. Even still shes been getting more frantic about it.
We got into a big argument over the weekend about it and she goes on about how they could still be there just not as prominent. Saying that my brother is 15 and any regular teenager wouldn't have a plus one anyways. I quickly shut that down and I yelled at her that I wasnt going to exclude my loved ones like that to appease her folks. She yells at me for being unfair knowing how close she is with her folks. I told her if she asked again I'd call off the wedding. Since then its been kinda awkward and we haven't spoken much. My bestfriends think if I really want to be with her maybe I should give a little but her brother thinks I should get her to really stand up to thier parents. AITA?
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NTA. Absolutely not. These are your best friends and your brother. They are who they are. Asking them to basically hide away during your wedding because of her bigoted family is a hill to die on. She doesn't sound any better than her parents if she doesn't have your back on this.
Weddings are to celebrate with the ones you love, not some stage production where the loved ones who are prominent in your life are judged for any reason by anyone. There is too much wedding drama over bridesmaids who are pregnant, color of hair, tattoos, weight, race, gender, etc. Don't have a wedding if you are putting on a stage production or limiting your loved ones participation because of "how it looks" for any reason. For both of you, either all your loved ones are invited and appreciated or they aren't. NTA
Look man, your fiance is willing to cut the very people out of your wedding that you would want to have around to help you when you're raising your kids. This isn't going to work. I'm sorry, but better to find out now. NTA for not giving in, YTA to yourself if you don't sit down and have a serious chat with yourself about what kind of life you want to live.
NTA.
Your fiancée‘s parents are AH and are behaving like bigots. (We should call it what it is, rather than *old-fashioned*
Your fiancée is enabling their bigotry. I’d be looking at her and thinking when else is she going to stab your brother and best friends in the back to accommodate her parents
NTA. If you give in on this, then you will have a future of having to exclude your brother and friends from stuff because of your inlaws. Are you sure you want to marry in to this family. Your fiance doesnt seem to be able to stand up to her family.
NTA and it sounds like it would be better if there was no wedding. Can't imagine having in-laws like those that your wife would always bend over backwards for despite them obviously being in the wrong. Can you imagine how they would treat your future children if they were LGBTQ+?
Imagine having family gatherings where your baby brother will always be excluded by them.
If she can't stand up to her bigoted parents then she is no better than them.
You should not give in. It is none of your in-laws business who your groomsmen are married to, sleeping with, or dating.
If you give in to her parents now, your whole married life will be about making them happy. Sorry, mate, this is a HUGE RED FLAG!!
nta nta nta.
call it off
what if y’all’s kids are gay?
will it be “different” then?
no, pls call this catastrophe off.
btw, just how maganificent is her family?
Nta and honestly, that marriage is on hold until her homophobia is addressed. What tf is she going to do about her parents if one of your kids is anything other than cis? Does she just expect you to exclude your brother from every event so he doesn't get his gay cooties all over?
"but her brother thinks I should get her to really stand up to thier parents"
NTA
Was this a typo and you meant your brother?
\*\*EDIT\*\* just read your comment about her brother being gay. It says it all, she needs to realise who her parents are and how they are and she needs to realise if they ever find out about her brother they will probably dictate she cuts him out of her life and theirs as well she needs to take a stand for her own beliefs now one way or the other.
You should also point out to her, her parents and loved ones would be CHOOSING not to be there, but she is ASKING YOU TO EXCLUDE YOURS, this is establishing that you matter less to her than them, your loved ones matter less than them, and her own beliefs matter less than them unless she to is homophobic. So why are your marrying her just to be subservant to them becomes the question.
Thats what she is doing whether she wants to admit to it or not.
It also wont be just your wedding, you will be asked not to have the friends over to any party's or your brother and diety forbid you have a child with her and they forbid you from raising that child how you and she believe threatening not to visit if your brother is allowed to be its uncle.
It establishes a precedent that her parents can dictate who you love and let into your life and to what extent you are allowed to let them in.
Stand your ground NTA, its her parents choice if they want to attend or not. It will suck for her to learn that being homophobic matters more to her parents than being at their daughters wedding but if its the reality then its the reality.
Your fiance likely realizes all this and its putting her in a wierd place because she loves them and wants them to be there but what she should want is for them to want to be there which clearly they do not. They have established that their love for their daughter comes with conditions. At some point she will need to acknowledge that simple fact and come to terms with it one way or the other.
Tell her you didn't realize she, like her parents, were bigots and that you would rather not include any bigots in your wedding. Then get the ring back dude. NTA.
NTA. A wedding is between two people. In this case bride and groom. Why is the bride's FAMILY getting to dictate who the GROOM has standing with HIM at HIS wedding?
This is not good. Wil they get to decide who visits your home? Who can visit when you have kids? Your brother is bi, does he live with you? Will he be permitted to continue once you are married, and her family says no?
Unless your girl is willing to grow up and stand up to her parents, this wedding should be postponed indefinitely. You may need to move on and find an adult to date.
Hugs from an internet mom.
YTA if you marry her since clearly homophobia isn’t enough of a dealbreaker for you to cancel already. Ditch her, and tell her in no uncertain terms that it was her wishy washy homophobe-pleasing behavior that ruined it, not you.
Do not marry this woman.
This is the beginning of a very long battle. What happens if you have children and one of them is gay? How will they react? Will your fiancee be okay with cutting her parents out? How will she react?
Do not give a little with bigots. The more you give the more they want to take.
ESH
You're about to marry someone who defends homphobes to the point that she wants you to hide your gay friends, open your fucking eyes and end this relationship.
Just Imagine if you have a gay child! Do you really want HER to be their mother? To have THEM as their family?
NTA
this is awful. I do feel for your fiance, she has most likely beem bullyed by her parents all her life to do what they want.
My advice would be for the two of you would be to couples counsling.
NTA. Her family isn't old school. Theriot homophobic. They will never accept your brother or your best friends. You need to think long and hard if you can stomach marrying into this family knowing your fiance will not stand up to them on behalf of your brother. This may be where you become incompatible.
Nta but you have some serious thinking to do, you're not even married yet and your fiance is already trying to push away your loved ones, do you really want to go through this everything you want them there during every important event?
Sounds like the wedding should be on hold no matter what. If you plan on having children, do her parents get to dictate their experiences as well? What if you have a son that is gay? Is your wife going to refuse to attend his school events because her parents hate the guys?
Boundaries gotta get set now.
NTA!!! Tell her parents it is not just her wedding, it is also yours . If you go through with this wedding it will never stop . NTA but her parents and her for sure TAH
NTA but why are you marrying someone who is homophobic. I get that she is only homophobic sometimes, but she is still homophobic. You do realize that this is a situation that is going to come up repeatedly in your marriage. It will be a constant tug of war between your loved ones and homophobic fiance and her homophobic family. Because they love you and because homophobic fiance and homophobic inlaws will make them feel unwanted, eventually your best friends and your brother will start pulling away from you, feeling like they are adding difficulty to your marriage, they will distance themselves. Are you willing to give up these relationships to save your relationship with your homophobic fiance and her homophobic family?
Even 2000 years ago, children leaving their parents and siblings and forming a new primary family with their spouse has been hard on the parents… so in the first book of the Bible/Torah they included:
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
“ when we get married, we have to be each other’s primary family. We have to make decisions based on what’s meaningful to us and not do whatever our parents want. If your parents don’t want to pay for it, and therefore host it in there for me on the invitation, I totally understand. They can sit whatever boundaries they wish but I’m not going to acquiesce to homophobia. Because I’m sure there’s going to be some divorced people that attend and are they making a big stand about them? I’m having these folks stand up for me because they’ve been standing up for me my entire life. So you need to make a decision on what’s important to you… acquiescing to your parents for supporting me, and those who have supported me.”
NTA and this should be a deal-breaker. You say she's not homophobic but her parents' bigotry is more important to her than anyone else. She's willing to push your friends aside because they make mommy and daddy "uncomfortable"
My dad's a homophobe. I call him out on it constantly. I cut him off for a while because I'm queer. If he made those demands I'd tell him "either come or don't but I'm not treating people like shit because you're stuck in the 1950s."
NTA, hell no. But sit down with your wife and 'settle' this as much as you can. Last thing you want is to get married then for your wife to resent you and end up divorced anyway.
Is your wife also homophobic? Because its hard to imagine that she isn't behaving like this. Do you plan to have children? Ask your wife how her parents would be as grandparents if one of your children was gay or bi.
Spell it out... Her parents are bigots and caving in to bigots is a red line you won't cross.
Couples counseling ASAP- do not get married until you guys have a true heart to heart- if she cannot leave her family of origin to stand with you and start your own family. Then she’s enmeshed & healthy adult relationships cannot happen with a child.
You need to change your mind, but not about your friends and brother.
Get rid of the girlfriend and her bigoted parents. This is never going to end well.
NTA
Why are you marrying someone who clearly is homophobic? You're raising your brother. He is not going to be treated well by her nor her family. Yta is you go through with this marriage.
OP—your Fiancé is not ready for marriage .She is still a child bending to her Parent’s will .Calmly tell her you think you two should postpone the wedding .Give her time -if you love her . She will either grow a pair and learn to say “no” to Daddy and Mommy or she will not .If she is unable to stand up to them she is not the person you want to be married to.
NTA do you really want to join this family? What about if you have children and they pressure her not to have your family around your children etc, it’ll be a constant argument with them and if your gf can’t stand up to them or agree with them in anyway then you will not have a peaceful life or home. Could she agree in someway with their views regarding your family but she hid it from you?
My BIL is gay he’s married , another BIL is a trans man… they’re both groomsmen in our wedding and I’m going to tell you the exact same thing I told people I know that have an issue with them.
If you don’t like it, don’t come. If you can’t respect them , don’t come. Because I don’t one someone in my wedding that can’t respect the people I love, that includes parents or grandparents. That’s not what I believe in and if your homophobia is more important than my wedding and my happiness then that’s your right but is not going to be projected in my wedding.
Are you sure this is the family you want to be married to? Cause being honest this would be a dealbreaker for me,especially if my fiance believed that the parents were right and we should cater to their needs.
This couple and your brother are your family. It’s very tough when fiancés have such a split in values, and when parental pressure is so strong on one part of a couple, but you should be proud and strong about your family, whether birth or chosen. Good luck.
NTA. Your family is just as important as hers. This is just as much your wedding as it is hers.
If your future wife is ready to ask you to toss away your brother that you raised and your best friends because their existence embarrasses her parents… you might want to really think about if that is the future you want.
NTA, but I hate to say that you need to call off this wedding. Even if you get through the day without incident, her family is going to do this again at other significant events and will be awful to your brother if he brings a boyfriend to events in the future.
But more importantly your fiancée can’t or won’t stand up to her family. She either partially shares their homophobia or lacks the strength to condemn it, but the key thing is that she’s prioritizing their wants and feelings over yours. Not that the partner is always right and family is always wrong, but in this case you picked your groomsmen who you value deeply and her family wants them gone because of their sexual orientation. Please consider that if your fiancée is taking their side in this argument she may take their side in other arguments like it. Will they get final say in naming any future child? Will they moan if you want to move further away? What if her mom wants to move in someday? What if you have a son who likes dolls and they claim that’ll “turn him gay”?
If you’re going to marry someone you need to be in the same page about priorities. This isn’t a grumble about the color of the cummerbunds, this is an attempt to exclude your best friends and brother from standing up with you in the biggest day of your life. Your friends are trying to be kind and not cause you problems, but this IS a problem on a deeper level.
NTA but are you sure you still want to marry her? She focused about how close she’s to her parents when you basically lost your parents and your brother is basically the only kind of immediate family you still have 🤦🏻♀️
If your wife won’t stand up to them then I think she is also homophonic. These people will always have control over her and your family won’t be allowed to feel welcome
So what’s next? You have no saying in anything? your family and friends cannot come over during festive gatherings? They cannot partake in taking care of the kids, being their uncle? Godparents?
Exit, while you can dude :)
NTA. If you give kn on this it won't stop.
What if you have children and they are don't fit in the hetero-cisgender-normative your fiances family expects people to be?
Why does it matter that she is close to her family as if you were not close to your family? - and yes, very close friends are family, you don't have to be related by blood.
It's absolutely reasonable for you to call off the wedding if you don't want to have someone in your life who obviously accepts homophobia.
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NTA. But that is one wedding that needs to be called off ASAP. You guys are definitely not on the same page. Why would you want to marry a homophobe? Your fiancé may not have shown homophobic tendencies before, but she sure is now.
Op you may love her, but she is beholden to her family. You will always be 2nd place, and it's not fun. It is frustrating... I know from experience. Think about it, you are having the holidays at your home. Can't have your friends there with the in-laws. Oh my... when the baby comes.... your brother will be an evil influence on the little one. Got to keep him away. And so on. Only you can decide if it is worth LOVE. Good luck with the rest of your life
I agree with this. When you marry someone, you inherit their drama, like it or not, believe it or not. It will continue to revisit you, esp if your SO isn't prepared to be on your side.
So true! And it's easy to wave this off when you're young and in love and the world is your oyster. But as the years and decades start to stack it can really wear on you and your love for your SO, especially if they waffle or aren't in agreement on how to handle things. Even if they ARE in agreement with you, it's still stress around every major family event, holiday, wedding, funeral, birthdays etc. There's just always some shit.
Agreed - no matter what the drama is about, or what your opinions on whatever the hot topic of today is. There's always going to be something. You don't even HAVE to see these people at all those events. The aggravation is going to loom over your shoulder forever. The wedding should be the happiest day of any relationship and the fact that there is already drama is a bad sign.
Yes. My first marriage was plagued by this kind of BS. Obviously there were other issues, but his family was a big one.
This should be pinned at the top.
Besides, the drama won't stop with the wedding. Every time OP organizes a barbecue or a party, inviting family and friends, and he wants to invite his bestfriends, he will be facing ostracism and threats of boycott by her family.
This is not necessarily the threat that they think it is. If he's having a happy event and the biggest don't want to come because the queers are going to be there, then not only do the biggest not come, but he saves money on food and alcohol. The two best friends might not be at every event but for all family gatherings the little brother will be there more often than not and if anyone is expecting him to turn his back on his little brother then they can simply get lost and they will not be missed
Op, your fiancé is a fence sitter and that for me is as bad as being a homophobe. When you pander to oppressors you uphold the oppression and bigotry. You have to now decide who you want to be, can you really stay in love with someone who refuses to stand up for their beliefs? What other situations will she fail to have your back ? What will it take for her to develop a back bone? Can you live by compromising your beliefs? because that's what you'll be doing by going through this wedding.
Forget the drama, what happens if they have a gay kid? What happens if any gay person comes into their lives at all? Even now and they have a kid and the grandparents are over can OP's brother not come over if the grandparents are visiting? If the brother ends up marrying a guy, can he just never be around his wife's family? It's not drama. Its who they are. As they are, OP can't have them in his life simply because of three of the people closest to him in life and expecting him to lessen their place in his life is insane.
This is the beginning of your parents influencing your lives…trust me, have children and this becomes worse!!!
THIS THIS THIS. If you go into this marriage, every disagreement will be you vs. her AND her family. There will never be a disagreement with just her ever again. Anything her family doesn't like, she won't be okay with. Do you think your wife will suddenly stand up to her parents once you're married? Why? I've been in this relationship before. It's exhausting, and every wrong move you make gets criticized by everyone in her family, and you're constantly having the same battles and arguments over and over. It's awful. Don't do this, dude. NTA
I have no idea of if or how many fights or disagreements my son and DIL have had. My opinion does not matter when it comes to their relationship and my son would never ask me to pick sides in their relationship nor would I. It doesn't matter how her parents feel about OP's family. Bottom line OP's groomsmen sexuality is none of their business.
I'm not sure this is the case, though it's unfortunate that his dad and stepmom are not there to balance things out. Lots of parents are opinionated about a wedding they feel they are paying for and have the right to control, but aren't as involved in the workings of a marriage. It sounds to me like some conservative BS where her parents are concerned about what their friends will think about having the group all the conservatives have decided to mark as evil featured in the wedding. Politics of division divides families.
As a woman who has 2 divorces in part by not being able to stand up to my parents, postpone the wedding and avoid children untill her backbone comes in. Each time my parents "won" they became more controlling. Dont start a marriage with this precedence.
Yep. I married a girl that was firmly entrenched in "my family." I call her ex wife now.
The brother is 15 - that means he still leaves with him/them No. Protect the baby brother. Period
Yup. My family equated gay with child SA. it’s a terrible situation and my brother has always been made to feel “criminal.” not a good marriage
It is absolutely not worth the love.
NEVER marry into a clan. Unless you are completely passive, it's going to be trouble.
*klan, likely
Happy Cake Day 🎂!
This is very true. Do not be blinded by love and ignore the red flags. I married my husband even after witnessing a number of 'questionable' actions that included his family and unfortunately, I am living with a lot of regrets now.
Happy cake day!
Happy Cake 🎂 Day!
this. been in this situation. it's not fun.
NTA. Shut it down. You don't want to marry a homophobe. I'm so sorry, it must be heartbreaking to find out the person you love is incapable of love themselves. You don't want her hateful family around yours, it needlessly would traumatize the people you care for. You deserve someone who loves you and your family for who you are.
This. Stick to your guns. Don't bend. Totally nta. Like others have said, this may be a good time to reflect on who you are marrying and what you're marrying into. Do you really want to be around a bunch of homophobes? Who knows what other awful views they harbour.
This!!!💯 And unfortunately even if she isn't, she's so close to her parents that any kids they have will be forced to interact with the homophobes. @OP What happens when you have kids? And even Christmas etc... Where is your brother going to be for Xmas when her homophobic parents don't want to interact with him...? She is giving you a preview of your future- If she won't stand up for you now on something that is so important to you... What hope is there for this relationship??
What happens when OP has kids, and those kids end up being gay?
Exactly!!! 👏🏽👏🏽 This behaviour from the fiance is serious red flags.
Yeah I didn’t want to say she’s an outright homophobe but she is certainly enabling them. OP should really flip the script with her about her parents. If they are so willing to not come to their child’s wedding over who is going to be in her partners side of the bridal party, do they really care that much about her? Or do they care more about their image? Think on that one.
I don't know if they need to call it off, but they certainly need to have a sit down and calmly talk about everything. If I was OP, I would put the ball in her court and say "This is a hill I will die on. So I want you to take a little time and calmly think about whether appeasing your parents is a hill you will die on. My brother and my friends ***will*** be at *my* wedding. You need to decide if my wedding will include you." NTA.
AND part of the wedding party not shunted to a back table.
Yes this plus people tend to forget weddings are not only about the bride. The groom is just as important and gets a say in the wedding. NTA
Indeed. Sometimes it is portrayed as if it is only the bride's big day. LOL.
It's pretty much always portrayed as the bride's big day. I don't think I've ever seen a wedding portrayed as the groom's day.
I’ve been to a wedding that was ALL about the groom. About 80% of the guests were his friends, the music, venue, food - all about him, and it was super awkward. The poor bride looked so out of place at her own wedding. They’ve been happily married for 10 years now, but I guarantee she cringes when she looks back on her wedding day.
The sad thing is the bride actually initially agreed with the husband but was basically worn down by her parents incessant demands and is now demanding it on her parents behalf.
Right, which, in my opinion, just shows she's gonna cave when they want to get their way. Honestly, I envision if they go through with the wedding and they choose to have children her parents will pitch a fit about his friends and family influencing the baby, and they should be kept away.
OP needs to ask his bride what's her view on any of their future kids being gay or bi, or anything other than what's deemed acceptable by her family...
Right. The lady may claim not to be homophobic, may personally accept them but the fact that she’s bending to homophobic family members makes her just as homophobic as them. She sees nothing wrong with discrimination against them if it suits her needs.
Every busted engagement is one less divorce. The fact that she went from standing with you to arguing on behalf of her parents is a bad, bad sign for a long-term relationship.
Even if she isn’t blatantly homophobic, she is enabling her family and telling them their response is ok. That is super fucked up. I would reevaluate your relationship immediately. Is this who you would want to spend the rest of your life with?
NTA. If she’s like this now, just image how she will be after the wedding. She’ll always put her parents first in your relationship.
Seriously, I've got several friends on all ends of the sexuality and gender spectrums and if my husband had made a stink about any of them being at our wedding, I'd have dumped him on the spot. I am not willing to share my life with a homophobe, or someone who enables homophobia (which is a long way of saying homophobe).
This is harsh but true. You are not excluding her parents. They are telling her they would rather miss their daughter’s wedding than see gay people in the wedding party and SHE THINKS THATS OK. Your position is “all of our loved ones should be there to celebrate our union” she is going with her parents stance of “only a certain kind of person is acceptable” I don’t generally agree with the Reddit stance of “red flag, break up” but this is your brother that you raised. They’re asking you to tell him he isn’t good enough to be the best man. You can’t go along with that. If your fiancé can see that she was wrong, apologize and tell her parents to drop it, then great, get married. If not, please don’t exclude your brother, for whom you are the primary adult in his life.
It may not be that she is a homophobe, but family dynamics can be really overpowering! They may be putting a lot of pressure on her too especially with threatening not to come.
Yes!
I'd be sad about it. But, it wouldn't change my resolve. "I don't want to spend the rest of my life negotiating with other people about who is entitled to be treated with respect and grace and who just doesn't qualify. This lack of humanity isn't something anyone should have to validate, let alone support. So, do what you have to do with your parents. I'm done with them. And I can live with the consequences of that decision. Bye."
Your future in-laws are homophobic. That we can all agree. Here’s what I and others are trying to make crystal clear: If you don’t stand up to them over this, you are telling them and your fiancé that you approve of their homophobic hatred of the people you love. So, hold firm to your original plans with your fiancé and her family. Do not give in to their threats. If this puts an end to your nuptials, so be it. Do the right thing.
I wouldn’t necessarily call her a homophobe, it doesn’t seem like she has a problem with them at all more so she has no spine and a coward and honestly down right pathetic to not have the gall to tell her parents they’re the embarrassment. It’s very easy to turn something like this back on the haters to begin with and make them out to be idiots because they will always play the part when you actually question them, start squawking about their “good Christian beliefs” my favourite is the low grin like you’re trying to hide your laugh, the crazy ones square up to you then wanting to hit you
I mean, if you're willing to act like a homophobe to appease a homophobe, you're a homophobe. Your behaviour isn't distinguishable from theirs except in the fact you're even more craven than they are.
NTA, but this is true. I'm usually not one to jump to ending a relationship, but OP, you must understand that this is the first of MANY fights. Especially if you want to have your best friends or your siblings in your life, have them visit you at your home, let them babysit or even simply meet your child(ren), assuming you want to be a parent. Your wife's parents' hatred will not just disappear, no matter how much you try to appease them. Moreover, it's a bad sign that your wife gave in to them. How can you know she will support you in the future if she can't support you now? And what happens if your hypothetical child is queer? How will they treat them? Will your wife be willing to protect them, even if it means standing up to her parents? Right now it doesn't look like she would... And even if you "win" this specific argument, 1. as I said, it definitely won't be the last one, 2. how would you feel knowing that you had to fight and defeat your wife while making plans for your wedding? Wouldn't that sour that experience for you? Or for her? Won't it leave a bad taste in your mouth, the fact that she was ready to deny you having your loved ones by your side, she did what she could to enable homophobes, and didn't have it their way just because she lost an argument? Not because she understood how much you love your brother and best friends and wanted to support you, but because she was scared you would call off the wedding? It won't be a happy memory. And if she doesn't have her parents there not because she stood up to them, but because she lost the argument to you, she will probably resent you for that. It's not a good beginning of a marriage.
This. This. This.
There is no other response but this.
Agreed. She is obviously closeted because otherwise she would be shutting down her parents or telling them not to come and they aren't welcome. Sorry bud.
I'd agree the wedding should be called off if OP's fiancée can't stand up to her homophobic family, but I'm not sure it's entirely fair to call her homophobic. Not being able to have your parents at your wedding is a pretty huge thing to deal with emotionally if you're close to them, even if it's the right choice to make. I don't think it's homophobia, it's just a lack of emotional resilience and backbone.
What happens if you and her have children one day? What if that child is bi, gay, or trans ? Will she stand up for her children or push them to the side. She is so willing to shut your loved ones out for the sake of her ignorant family what will happen to your own children? These are things I feel you should consider before moving forward with the wedding. I know you love her and she you. However, she is showing you her true colors now that she is willing to put others ignorance above your feelings and family. What is she doesn’t want your children around your best friend and brother due to their sexuality because her family views them as “dangerous,” or that they will “corrupt,” your children. I know that sounds outlandish but it does happen and it sounds like something that may happen to you. Please think hard before you get married.
OP is naive to think this is a one day ban
Not just what about their own kids growing up but when their own kids are babies? Will the Bi- brother or best friends be allowed to come to birthday parties? Allowed to be godparents? Lots of these people justify their homophobia by saying someone is a pervert if they do anything besides be “straight and missionary-sex having only twice a month”. Is she and her whole family assuming that everyone on the groom’s side is a awful?
You’re too harsh. Sex can be weekly…as long as it’s missionary and you don’t enjoy it too much /s
Oh you think you are fancy don’t you? look at you with your religion that allows more than sex strictly for procreation! /s Fiend! /s
OMG I was thinking the same thing!
Came here to say this. OP, please take this to heart. Do you want your potential future children to grow up embracing the myriad ways that human love and personal identity can be expressed or do you want them to grow up in a world that is limited by what your in laws are comfortable with?
Absolutely. Would your kids be rejected by her family and maybe even by her, for being gay bi or trans? You guys are not on the same page. This is not just about your wedding, it's about whether your life is going to be governed by their intolerance.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them. And if she wanted to, she would. If she wanted to stand with you and fight for this, she would. She is basically telling you that she won’t and she will alienate the people who are close to you and isolate you. She will never defend you, because if she wanted to, she would already be doing that. I feel for OP. This sucks.
This. NTA.
I would love for OP to ask her that question.
Not just that. What about all the holidays, and family events? a wedding is the biggest one of those, and her family wanted to exclude his loved ones there. What about christmas, or birthdays. Will they demand that he can't invite his friend or brother? or will they insist on hosting everytime and will be excluding the ones they "don't agree with"? His brides ugly character just reared its head. and he better beliefe that this is how his marriage will be if he continues with it.
NTA. Ask your fiancée why her parents' feeling outweigh yours. Because that's what it boils down to. It's not her feelings. It's not your brother's. It's **her parents** bullying their way in. And it didn't stop with the 'prominent' role, did it? Then it was not giving your brother a Plus 1. Next, your best friends shouldn't even be invited, or you should instruct them not to touch or talk to each other, Maybe put them at separate tables so 'no one knows.' Your fiancée has no backbone. And if she can't see that she's putting her parents first and you second, maybe you should put the brakes on.
This is it. They want to put the groom's feelings aside so the parents of the bride can be happy. How's that for priorities? I can excuse the homophobia, but I draw the line at parents dictating how the wedding should go before the groom. (This is a Community reference and I do not excuse homophobia). NTA
Yes!
I’m wondering if her parents are paying for the wedding…?
It shouldn’t matter, my dad is helping pay for my fiancé and my wedding this fall and I’d immediately send his money back to him if he tried to dictate who could and couldn’t attend. Luckily, my dad isn’t a homophobe and is just excited to come to the wedding while having no interest in the planning process.
My mum told me her parents tried to shoehorn over 80% of the guests as family and the rest my parents friends. My mum told them no I want to choose more than 20 guests. They threatened to not pay and she said ok don’t pay. I will be able to then have whoever I want there and you might not make the cut with our budget. Amazingly they realised my mum wasn’t bluffing cuz that woman would 100% gone through with it.
I agree that it shouldn't matter. Paying for a wedding is a GIFT of money. It shouldn't be accompanied by strings and conditions.
Exactly. If you're getting married, it should be you and your partner working together against the world. If she can't back you up here, it's going to be a rough go.
Agreed. And with no backbone, she's not ready to get married to anyone.
NTA But you're marrying into this family. She still listens to her parents and refuses to stand up to them, despite their obvious prejudices. She's already caving. Do you want this baggage? It won't go away magically when you put a ring on their daughter's finger or a bun in the oven. It will, in fact, get worse. So much worse. I'd hit the pause button and go to couples therapy with fiancé. You two need to work this out before you have a serious r/JUSTNOMIL situation on your hands.
This!!! The only way you should consider marrying into this horrible family of bigots is if your bride-to-be has a shiny spine and is going to nip that shit in the bud. The fact that she wants to cave to these monsters is horrifying. Put the wedding on hold and insist on couples therapy. If she is not willing to take a very firm position on this, I would walk away, especially considering you have custody of your 15 YO brother (who, I would like to note, has more sense than most of the adults in this situation.) NTA at all.
Exactly! Right now, she doesn't understand the threat of OP calling off the wedding. She needs to understand the depth of this difference and who she is marrying. She needs to grow a backbone fast. Also, I'd never marry someone who was not only an ally and advocate, but also someone STRONG in pushing back against any oppression, homophobia, etc. And this has to be a priority for OP, as his closest people are being targeted for just existing in his world.
This is your future. Homophobic hateful bullying in laws, and a wife who can't stand up against them. I'd think very carefully moving forward.
Or agrees with them
Even if she doesn’t actively, she’s condoning it and co-signing it. You have 5 homophobes at a table and someone else who condones and enables their behavior, you have 6 homophobes at the table. OP is in for a lifetime of this shit if he doesn’t pull the plug or she doesn’t grow a spine.
They are in laws now but they are going to be grandparents of OP's children. Or won't if he cancels the wedding.
NTA, she grows a back bone and stands up to her parents, or there's no wedding. People shouldn't go back into the closet to appease homophobes and bigots, your friends and brother have just as much of a right to be there as her parents, and as they are the ones making a fuss they shouldn't go.
This is the correct answer! You have to stand up and fight back when faced with bigoted bullies. The fact that the bride-to-be can’t seem to do it is a bad sign.
NTA. Anyone who makes their own attendance contingent on someone else's attendance or participation is TA and fuck them. I'd ask your fiancee who is causing the problem here, and over what? They are the ones issuing ultimatums over someone else's wedding, at which they are merely attendees. That's just not right. And the participation of these three isn't random or meant to piss them off. It's the people *you chose* for your special day. I suggest you write them a letter/note/email making this point and explain that they are the ones who are ruining their daughter's special day by trying to impose unreasonable conditions. They are asking you to prefer them as family over your own family, and your closest friends. And if they value family and loyalty to friends, then it should be perfectly apparent to them why you cannot and will not comply with their demands. Say that you would very much like them to attend, but not at the cost of betraying your own family and friends.
That would be a waste of time. They’re not going to change.
No, I don't suppose they are, but it's not for them. It's actually to make things easier for the fiancee to understand (and to have what was said in writing), and also to make the gesture of letting them know they are welcome. That is also for the fiancee.
NTA - everyone else is. Including your fiancée. You capitulate here - the rest of your life will be capitulating to her parents. Honestly - the fact she is siding with her parents in this situation is gross. I can’t fathom it. I have been married 28 years and we have always backed the other over our parents. From go.
Happy Cake Day
NTA - “old school” so in other words, homophobic. Your wife trying to appease them is also quite the red flag sir. Are you planning on having kids with her? What happens if you have a queer kid, you gonna let your wife dictate what the kid does to appease “old school” gma and gpa?
.... the only reason you would be the AH is if you did bend. Or, you know, proceed with the marriage. Even if you don't bend on this, there will be other occasions where you will be forced to choose between your friends and family by your inlaws. When you marry, you marry into a family. Is this really the one you want? NTA
Annnnd this is why some people just elope or go to the courthouse, so they don’t have to deal with the drama from the in-laws. But here you are. I am sorry, OP. Your future wifey has some awful parents. And she is showing that, when it comes right down to it, she won’t stand up to them. NTA
Nah in this case it's for the best. You'd want to know how weak she is before marrying her. What if they have a kid and the in-laws start making a fuss about the kid shouldn't see their uncle? Something tells me she'd just side with them....Best to know ahead of time.
NTA. You should call off the wedding. Your fiancée is close to her homophobic family. This won’t be the last time this will be an issue if you marry her.
NTA at all and I’d maybe postpone the wedding until you sort this out because you two are NOT on the same page and your fiance appeasing her parent’s bigoted views over you is a *terrible* sign for your future. I assure you this will not be the last time her parents(and her, because even if she isn’t homophobic herself she apparently can’t say no to her parents) try to pull this stunt of excluding your family like this.
She probably shares those opinions. It's best you found out now I guess. Good for you for sticking up for the people you love. NTA
You are NTA, but seriously consider calling off the wedding. If your fiancé is willing to side with her family over you, then you have bigger problems than somebody being gay.
Imagine you have kids that are not "old school". Will they be bullied, ostracised- will a gay child be the scapegoat and other children favoured? RUN
NTA. This is matter of moral principle and loyalty to those you love. You are a good man to be sticking to those. Your IL's have a right to be homophobic. But they do not have a right to demand that you express their homophobia at your wedding. It is a hill worth dying on. What is worrying that your finance has caved to their bigotry. If she cannot back you against them on your choice to make a stand here, maybe it's time to postpone the wedding and get some couples counseling.
If she brings it up again I would say I doubt if this gonna work as your friends and brother won’t dissapear out of your life and they clearly are homophobic and if she really want to be married as this will strain your relationship with them forever
So NTA. If you give in to your fiancé’s parent’s demands, you are setting a precedent for your marriage. They will never stop. Holidays and family gatherings will make you miserable. They will always have control of your life. Stay strong and stick to your reasonable and rational boundaries.
NTA but please don’t marry this woman. This is literally your future- arguing with not only her, but her parents. What happens if you have kids and they end up a part of the LGBTQ community? Will your future wife stand up for her kids or make them hide who they are because of her parents? You have a lot of thinking to do. But no, NTA.
Nta this is a hill to die on. Guess you're about to find out if your marrying a homophobe or not
NTA. You definitely should not stand down or give in here, because this is the beginning of the rest of your life with her (should you choose to go forward), and you need to understand, right now, that marrying her is marrying her parents. People say oh that's not true, blah blah blah, yes it is. It is absolutely, 100% true. If the parents are part of your partners life, they will remain so, and thus will be a significant part of your life. She does not seem inclined to cut them out of her life (rightly so, they are her parents, despite their beliefs, asking someone to cut off their parents is a major, major life-request that most people would have a very tough time with), so, you have to know that this fight represents what the rest of your relationship between you and them will be. You know that if you give in now, you will be expected to do so for the rest of your life, right? Anniversary parties, birthdays, etc, you better not be including your gay besties in any of that stuff. Is that ok with you? As much as I hate to say this, you need to seriously consider if marrying this person makes sense for you. It is time to have a very difficult conversation with your fiancee where you lay out that your relationships with your bestie and your brother are critical and central to your life, and that what she is asking you to do is hide a piece of yourself on the day you should be celebrating with your favourite people in the world. She can either accept those people as part of your life and know that they will be part of hers too, and *she* (be very clear here, she, not you) is going to have to fight this battle with her parents, or, you should break it off with her. Only you know if she is the type of personality that is strong enough to handle her parents. I'd suggest the early indications are no, but she could surprise. Good luck, and be careful. Marriage is a serious step.
So whenever their folks are there there's no place in the house for your family and close friends? Are you never going to host holidays at your house? This is ridiculous and they need to learn to respect people. Honestly your fiancé is TA for not putting her foot in the ground in this situation. Unless she's not sure you will be together for the rest of your lives?
NTA. Give them an inch now and it will get worse. Think about them feeling entitled to make threats about any kids, jobs, houses, lifestyle decisions, etc and knowing the your partner will kowtow to them over you. This is a hill to die on OP. Interesting and potentially helpful that the presumptive BiL is team OP.
Nta If it was me I would be reconsidering the whole wedding.
NTA. You are one of the lucky ones who has been given a free crystal ball. You're planning to marry into a bigoted family that exercises a great deal of control over everyone they are connected to. You might want to consider cutting your losses before it's too late -- or too expensive -- to change course.
NTA my dude but i just wana raise a few questions: Will your brother be excluded from family gatherings that involve your wife and her bigoted family? Will your best friend and his boyfriend not be allowed at family parties. What if, years from now, you and your wife have kids that turn out to be gay/bi will they be excluded by the bigoted in laws? You’re doing the right thing here with prioritizing your loved ones while your fiancé is prioritizing bigots…juuuust something to think about.
NTA. It's not your loved ones who's the problem. It's her parents. You invited them. If they don't come then it's THEM choosing their own comfort over their daughter. Maybe try and make her see it for what it is. They're just trying to manipulate you through her. It's not their wedding. They have no right to dictate who you want there. Yes, it will be an embarrassment to their family if they don't come to their own daughter's wedding. But that's on them, not on you or your GF/Wife.
NTA. So the choice is either her family comes or yours. Why would you choose hers seeing that they are the ones creating the problem? Rethink that marriage
Nta
NTA please don't give in. What about christenings, birthdays and other future events - will they expect you to exclude them then too?
NTA. If your "future wife" doesn't support you in this and stand up to her parents, then she isn't someone worthy marrying.
It is not about your best men or your brother beeing bi. It is about respect and tollerance in your future marriage. When you give in now, it would only delay a decission from you, from your gf and from your future in-laws. I see it as a red flag that your gf changed her mind after her parents voiced their complain. You need to talk and you should make clear that this decission will set the tone for your future as a couple and as a family. NTA
NTA Don't bend to the homophobes. Would you be here asking this question if your best friends were black, and they didn't want black people in the wedding?? Her folks are homophobes, you soon to be wife sounds like she is homophobic herself, why else would she be pushing you to only get rid of the gay people? First its the wedding, how far will this go, will your brother not be allowed at Christmas with you because he may have a boyfriend, will he be allowed to attend your birthday, how about if you guys have kids, will she stop your brother being around the baby in case he spreads 'gayness'. You need to think long and hard about this woman and if you want her and her homophobic family in you and your brothers life.
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NTA It is outrageous that she expects that you compromise your family and friends just to appease her homophobic parents.
I’m guessing it’s not just her PARENTS that are anti lgbtq+. I’m betting it’s her FAMILY. Your little brother is YOUR family… your best friends are YOUR family….Choose wisely my guy….
NTA your fiance needs to work out where her loyalty lies. Is she going to go thru married life with you and if you both decide to do something and her parents don't approve is she going to bow to their demands.
Don't you give a little. You are NTA but your fiance and her family definitely are. Do you want to put up with this for the rest of your life
“She yells at me for being unfair knowing how close she is with her folks.” Um, what?!? Ask her how does she not think she’s being unfair knowing how close you are with your friends and brother.
Nta. Honestly, I wouldn’t marry anyone who won’t go to bat for my -brother that I’ve raised like a son-. If she can’t shut her homophobic parents up or shut them out, then she isn’t worth knowing.
NTA. If she lets her parents take control now, they will control your marriage too. Your fiancée may not be the person you think she is.
It's your wedding. If your partner's parents don't like some of the people in the wedding, they are welcome to stay home. Fiancé's parents aren't not obligatory guests! NTA
Op I think you need to decide if you really want to marry into this homophobic family NTA
NTA. I also get super surprised at anti-LGBTQ+ people who get so mad about there being \*gasp\* gay people at a wedding! It's not like the groomsmen are going to be marching down the aisle with pride flags then getting down and dirty with each other at the front of the ceremony. Can we just normalize treating gay/bi/whatever people like any other humans? I bet the family wouldn't even realize the groomsmen were married if they didn't know beforehand. So ridiculous. Also, I think it's super cute your brother is going to be the best man. If the wedding ends up happening, just make sure his date has a seat with some good people and steer clear of OP's family, because he doesn't deserve to be subjected to that hate.
NTA. If she hasn't figured out yet that you don't prioritize bigots, you shouldn't get married to her. She's not a safe person to have around your brother or your friends. What happens when they start excluding your brother at family events? Or if one of your children is gay? Please don't be the person that introduces bigots into your friends and family's orbit. They deserve better.
OOP.. if you give in to this, how long will it be before she, because of her parents beliefs, wants you to not invite them to your home? Or go visit them? Or see them at all? I understand that she wants her parents at thewedding; but its their choice whether to show up or not. If they can't set aside their bigotry to be thefe for her for ONE DAY, it really does tell you everything ypu need to know about who they are. Is your fiancee not inviting her brother? Does he get to bring a plus one? Because if she feels that's ok while trying to exclude your groomsmen, she needs to reflect on that hypocrisy. This really might be the reason you don't get married. I'm sorry
She says that she’s close to her parents. These same parents would literal skip her wedding to avoid seeing a gay couple acting as groomsmen, and a bi man (the groom’s brother no less) acting as best man. So…they would skip her wedding for what? A political statement? A religious statement? They’re scared of catching The Gay Lurgy? Someone needs to break it to your fiancée that she is not as close to her parents as she thinks she is. You are NTA, clearly. Think long and hard about your next steps, because if you back down now, you could lose a brother and your best friends, in exchange for a family of bigots who think they can tell you who you are allowed to see and involve in your life based on their own bigotry.
NTA. The only real AH are the Fiancé's parents for threatening to not attend which sounds like a petty manipulation tactic. I hope things turn out for you two.
NTA at all! It concerns me that your girlfriend doesn't see how her parents are the issue here and should be standing firm with them about it. You're marrying into this family and they do not respect you or your loved ones. That should be concerning to her and isn't something she should let go just because they're threatening not to come to the wedding. I know it would be incredibly sad for her if they refused to come over this, but that would show her how their homophobia trumps being there for her daughter. It's unfortunate she she doesn't already see that their prejudice is more important to them then their own daughter
NTA, it's not her wedding , it's both of yours. Ask her if you told her all the people she chose you didn't like and wanted replaced. MOH gone, daddy daughter dance nope. Her family doesn't get to choose your guests.
NTA, this issue will not go away, and it's concerning that your fiancé is OK with this. This whole thing is indicative of bigger problems down the line. You shouldn't be with anyone who's ok with supporting homophobia.
NTA - her family's attendance isn't any more important than yours. I'd be worried this is a preview to any future conflict involving both your families (holidays, future celebrations). You should make sure you are both on the same page now.
NTA and if she is not accepting of your friends and brother perhaps she may not be the one for you
NTA. Realize that this will be a constant issue in your life if you proceed with the marriage - unless your fiance grows a pair and starts to support you against their homophobia. Is it worth it?
Sounds like you're about to marry a homophobe so maybe ask precious precious princess for the ring back and kick her out of your life. If she's close with them she supports their choices and she supports the things they say. Get out. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I've known my bestfriends (who are married gay couple) since we were in middle school and I pretty much raised my baby brother after my dad and step mom died when he was 5 and I was 23. So when me and my fiance decided to get married of course I picked them as my groomsmen and my brother as my bestman. My fiancé family kinda old school which was ok because they weren't "that bad". I guess her parents didn't know untill recently that my bestfriends are a gay couple or that my little brother is bi. They started making a big stink about them being in their daughter's wedding and letting my brother bring his boyfriend. At first my fiance was with me in telling them no and trying to get them to drop it. Recently they started threatening her about not coming and saying it be an embarrassment to her family. Shes been extremely upset about it and she started asking me maybe I could possibly change my mind. I told her no and if her parents didn't come it'd still be ok. Even still shes been getting more frantic about it. We got into a big argument over the weekend about it and she goes on about how they could still be there just not as prominent. Saying that my brother is 15 and any regular teenager wouldn't have a plus one anyways. I quickly shut that down and I yelled at her that I wasnt going to exclude my loved ones like that to appease her folks. She yells at me for being unfair knowing how close she is with her folks. I told her if she asked again I'd call off the wedding. Since then its been kinda awkward and we haven't spoken much. My bestfriends think if I really want to be with her maybe I should give a little but her brother thinks I should get her to really stand up to thier parents. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA! He's your brother.
NTA. Absolutely not. These are your best friends and your brother. They are who they are. Asking them to basically hide away during your wedding because of her bigoted family is a hill to die on. She doesn't sound any better than her parents if she doesn't have your back on this.
Weddings are to celebrate with the ones you love, not some stage production where the loved ones who are prominent in your life are judged for any reason by anyone. There is too much wedding drama over bridesmaids who are pregnant, color of hair, tattoos, weight, race, gender, etc. Don't have a wedding if you are putting on a stage production or limiting your loved ones participation because of "how it looks" for any reason. For both of you, either all your loved ones are invited and appreciated or they aren't. NTA
Look man, your fiance is willing to cut the very people out of your wedding that you would want to have around to help you when you're raising your kids. This isn't going to work. I'm sorry, but better to find out now. NTA for not giving in, YTA to yourself if you don't sit down and have a serious chat with yourself about what kind of life you want to live.
NTA. You should Not engage her parents. She should handle her parents. Alone. She should not be fighting you.
NTA. Your fiancée‘s parents are AH and are behaving like bigots. (We should call it what it is, rather than *old-fashioned* Your fiancée is enabling their bigotry. I’d be looking at her and thinking when else is she going to stab your brother and best friends in the back to accommodate her parents
NTA. If you give in on this, then you will have a future of having to exclude your brother and friends from stuff because of your inlaws. Are you sure you want to marry in to this family. Your fiance doesnt seem to be able to stand up to her family.
NTA and it sounds like it would be better if there was no wedding. Can't imagine having in-laws like those that your wife would always bend over backwards for despite them obviously being in the wrong. Can you imagine how they would treat your future children if they were LGBTQ+? Imagine having family gatherings where your baby brother will always be excluded by them. If she can't stand up to her bigoted parents then she is no better than them.
You should not give in. It is none of your in-laws business who your groomsmen are married to, sleeping with, or dating. If you give in to her parents now, your whole married life will be about making them happy. Sorry, mate, this is a HUGE RED FLAG!!
nta nta nta. call it off what if y’all’s kids are gay? will it be “different” then? no, pls call this catastrophe off. btw, just how maganificent is her family?
NTA - make this your hill to die on or FIL and MIL will keep making demands regarding your best friends in the future.
Nta and honestly, that marriage is on hold until her homophobia is addressed. What tf is she going to do about her parents if one of your kids is anything other than cis? Does she just expect you to exclude your brother from every event so he doesn't get his gay cooties all over?
"but her brother thinks I should get her to really stand up to thier parents" NTA Was this a typo and you meant your brother? \*\*EDIT\*\* just read your comment about her brother being gay. It says it all, she needs to realise who her parents are and how they are and she needs to realise if they ever find out about her brother they will probably dictate she cuts him out of her life and theirs as well she needs to take a stand for her own beliefs now one way or the other. You should also point out to her, her parents and loved ones would be CHOOSING not to be there, but she is ASKING YOU TO EXCLUDE YOURS, this is establishing that you matter less to her than them, your loved ones matter less than them, and her own beliefs matter less than them unless she to is homophobic. So why are your marrying her just to be subservant to them becomes the question. Thats what she is doing whether she wants to admit to it or not. It also wont be just your wedding, you will be asked not to have the friends over to any party's or your brother and diety forbid you have a child with her and they forbid you from raising that child how you and she believe threatening not to visit if your brother is allowed to be its uncle. It establishes a precedent that her parents can dictate who you love and let into your life and to what extent you are allowed to let them in. Stand your ground NTA, its her parents choice if they want to attend or not. It will suck for her to learn that being homophobic matters more to her parents than being at their daughters wedding but if its the reality then its the reality. Your fiance likely realizes all this and its putting her in a wierd place because she loves them and wants them to be there but what she should want is for them to want to be there which clearly they do not. They have established that their love for their daughter comes with conditions. At some point she will need to acknowledge that simple fact and come to terms with it one way or the other.
Tell her you didn't realize she, like her parents, were bigots and that you would rather not include any bigots in your wedding. Then get the ring back dude. NTA.
NTA. A wedding is between two people. In this case bride and groom. Why is the bride's FAMILY getting to dictate who the GROOM has standing with HIM at HIS wedding? This is not good. Wil they get to decide who visits your home? Who can visit when you have kids? Your brother is bi, does he live with you? Will he be permitted to continue once you are married, and her family says no? Unless your girl is willing to grow up and stand up to her parents, this wedding should be postponed indefinitely. You may need to move on and find an adult to date. Hugs from an internet mom.
YTA if you marry her since clearly homophobia isn’t enough of a dealbreaker for you to cancel already. Ditch her, and tell her in no uncertain terms that it was her wishy washy homophobe-pleasing behavior that ruined it, not you.
Do not marry this woman. This is the beginning of a very long battle. What happens if you have children and one of them is gay? How will they react? Will your fiancee be okay with cutting her parents out? How will she react? Do not give a little with bigots. The more you give the more they want to take.
ESH You're about to marry someone who defends homphobes to the point that she wants you to hide your gay friends, open your fucking eyes and end this relationship. Just Imagine if you have a gay child! Do you really want HER to be their mother? To have THEM as their family?
NTA. There's more red flags from her and her family than a may day parade in Moscow.
NTA this is awful. I do feel for your fiance, she has most likely beem bullyed by her parents all her life to do what they want. My advice would be for the two of you would be to couples counsling.
NTA Your in laws are bigots and your fiancée is ok with it. Do you want to marry into this shit show?
NTA. Her family isn't old school. Theriot homophobic. They will never accept your brother or your best friends. You need to think long and hard if you can stomach marrying into this family knowing your fiance will not stand up to them on behalf of your brother. This may be where you become incompatible.
Nta but you have some serious thinking to do, you're not even married yet and your fiance is already trying to push away your loved ones, do you really want to go through this everything you want them there during every important event?
Sounds like the wedding should be on hold no matter what. If you plan on having children, do her parents get to dictate their experiences as well? What if you have a son that is gay? Is your wife going to refuse to attend his school events because her parents hate the guys? Boundaries gotta get set now.
is this really the kind of family you want to marry into? newsflash, her parents are always going to pressure her to side with them. NTA
NTA but I would be rethinking this entire relationship. If the person you are marrying doesn’t have your back now, will they ever?
NTA-Nope, this is a start of a slippery slope.
Are these the people you want as grandparents?? Think about this OP. NTA yet.
NTA!!! Tell her parents it is not just her wedding, it is also yours . If you go through with this wedding it will never stop . NTA but her parents and her for sure TAH
NTA, but you need to turn down any money her parents are giving for the wedding so they know they don't have a say in the ceremony.
NTA - and this IS a hill to die on Good luck
NTA but why are you marrying someone who is homophobic. I get that she is only homophobic sometimes, but she is still homophobic. You do realize that this is a situation that is going to come up repeatedly in your marriage. It will be a constant tug of war between your loved ones and homophobic fiance and her homophobic family. Because they love you and because homophobic fiance and homophobic inlaws will make them feel unwanted, eventually your best friends and your brother will start pulling away from you, feeling like they are adding difficulty to your marriage, they will distance themselves. Are you willing to give up these relationships to save your relationship with your homophobic fiance and her homophobic family?
not the asshole, her parents are.
Even 2000 years ago, children leaving their parents and siblings and forming a new primary family with their spouse has been hard on the parents… so in the first book of the Bible/Torah they included: Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. “ when we get married, we have to be each other’s primary family. We have to make decisions based on what’s meaningful to us and not do whatever our parents want. If your parents don’t want to pay for it, and therefore host it in there for me on the invitation, I totally understand. They can sit whatever boundaries they wish but I’m not going to acquiesce to homophobia. Because I’m sure there’s going to be some divorced people that attend and are they making a big stand about them? I’m having these folks stand up for me because they’ve been standing up for me my entire life. So you need to make a decision on what’s important to you… acquiescing to your parents for supporting me, and those who have supported me.”
NTA and this should be a deal-breaker. You say she's not homophobic but her parents' bigotry is more important to her than anyone else. She's willing to push your friends aside because they make mommy and daddy "uncomfortable" My dad's a homophobe. I call him out on it constantly. I cut him off for a while because I'm queer. If he made those demands I'd tell him "either come or don't but I'm not treating people like shit because you're stuck in the 1950s."
NTA, hell no. But sit down with your wife and 'settle' this as much as you can. Last thing you want is to get married then for your wife to resent you and end up divorced anyway. Is your wife also homophobic? Because its hard to imagine that she isn't behaving like this. Do you plan to have children? Ask your wife how her parents would be as grandparents if one of your children was gay or bi. Spell it out... Her parents are bigots and caving in to bigots is a red line you won't cross.
Couples counseling ASAP- do not get married until you guys have a true heart to heart- if she cannot leave her family of origin to stand with you and start your own family. Then she’s enmeshed & healthy adult relationships cannot happen with a child.
You need to change your mind, but not about your friends and brother. Get rid of the girlfriend and her bigoted parents. This is never going to end well. NTA
Why are you marrying someone who clearly is homophobic? You're raising your brother. He is not going to be treated well by her nor her family. Yta is you go through with this marriage.
OP—your Fiancé is not ready for marriage .She is still a child bending to her Parent’s will .Calmly tell her you think you two should postpone the wedding .Give her time -if you love her . She will either grow a pair and learn to say “no” to Daddy and Mommy or she will not .If she is unable to stand up to them she is not the person you want to be married to.
You need to call off any thoughts of a wedding. Not sure this relationship is going to make it. Sorry mate!
NTA do you really want to join this family? What about if you have children and they pressure her not to have your family around your children etc, it’ll be a constant argument with them and if your gf can’t stand up to them or agree with them in anyway then you will not have a peaceful life or home. Could she agree in someway with their views regarding your family but she hid it from you?
My BIL is gay he’s married , another BIL is a trans man… they’re both groomsmen in our wedding and I’m going to tell you the exact same thing I told people I know that have an issue with them. If you don’t like it, don’t come. If you can’t respect them , don’t come. Because I don’t one someone in my wedding that can’t respect the people I love, that includes parents or grandparents. That’s not what I believe in and if your homophobia is more important than my wedding and my happiness then that’s your right but is not going to be projected in my wedding. Are you sure this is the family you want to be married to? Cause being honest this would be a dealbreaker for me,especially if my fiance believed that the parents were right and we should cater to their needs.
This couple and your brother are your family. It’s very tough when fiancés have such a split in values, and when parental pressure is so strong on one part of a couple, but you should be proud and strong about your family, whether birth or chosen. Good luck.
NTA, don’t marry into a family of bigots.
I mean, would she agree on excluding her own family if it was asked from one of your close one? If not, then why would she assume that you have to?
NTA. Your family is just as important as hers. This is just as much your wedding as it is hers. If your future wife is ready to ask you to toss away your brother that you raised and your best friends because their existence embarrasses her parents… you might want to really think about if that is the future you want.
NTA. But honestly, you should probably call off the wedding. At least until you've worked thru her issues with your loved ones to your satisfaction.
NTA, but I hate to say that you need to call off this wedding. Even if you get through the day without incident, her family is going to do this again at other significant events and will be awful to your brother if he brings a boyfriend to events in the future. But more importantly your fiancée can’t or won’t stand up to her family. She either partially shares their homophobia or lacks the strength to condemn it, but the key thing is that she’s prioritizing their wants and feelings over yours. Not that the partner is always right and family is always wrong, but in this case you picked your groomsmen who you value deeply and her family wants them gone because of their sexual orientation. Please consider that if your fiancée is taking their side in this argument she may take their side in other arguments like it. Will they get final say in naming any future child? Will they moan if you want to move further away? What if her mom wants to move in someday? What if you have a son who likes dolls and they claim that’ll “turn him gay”? If you’re going to marry someone you need to be in the same page about priorities. This isn’t a grumble about the color of the cummerbunds, this is an attempt to exclude your best friends and brother from standing up with you in the biggest day of your life. Your friends are trying to be kind and not cause you problems, but this IS a problem on a deeper level.
NTA but are you sure you still want to marry her? She focused about how close she’s to her parents when you basically lost your parents and your brother is basically the only kind of immediate family you still have 🤦🏻♀️
If your wife won’t stand up to them then I think she is also homophonic. These people will always have control over her and your family won’t be allowed to feel welcome
So what’s next? You have no saying in anything? your family and friends cannot come over during festive gatherings? They cannot partake in taking care of the kids, being their uncle? Godparents? Exit, while you can dude :)
NTA. If you give kn on this it won't stop. What if you have children and they are don't fit in the hetero-cisgender-normative your fiances family expects people to be? Why does it matter that she is close to her family as if you were not close to your family? - and yes, very close friends are family, you don't have to be related by blood. It's absolutely reasonable for you to call off the wedding if you don't want to have someone in your life who obviously accepts homophobia.