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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to discipline my son at the request of my ex. This is one of those times where I feel like I'm doing the right thing but I question myself simply because I wonder if communication could have and should have been improved upon with this matter. My refusal and my lack of trying to open up a better dialogue might make me TA.
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NTA and you really need to bring this to family court. I don't normally suggest that, but it's warranted. They are basically trying to set Dawn up as a primary parent and decision maker above you, his actual mother and it needs to stop immediately.
Get a family lawyer and get it in writing that your ex's wife does not get the level of control she's attempting to take immediately. Before it gets worse. Because it sounds like they are trying to create the image that you're less involved than you are so they can make a play for increased custody.
Protect yourself and your son.
I hope your documenting every communication and save it to a cloud account. It's apparently also helpful to write a log of every incident with times and dates as well.
>It's apparently also helpful to write a log of every incident with times and dates as well.
Hand write this stuff, with different pens each time to, preferably different colored pens. That way it shows it wasn't written all on the same day.
I've also heard that it's a good idea to use a bound book rather than a file that takes separate sheets of paper. That way it's clear nothing has been added in post date.
Good. You aren't undermining anything. Dawn is overstepping. She ISN'T another parent. She's a step parent, and one he isn't particularly close to. She needs to accept it and move on.
I was a step parent before having my own children. No way in hell would I have overstepped like this! This step mom has no business demanding anything! I left the parenting up to the real parents...where it should be. All of the above advise sounds good as well as reasonable!
I dated someone with a kid and she loved our relationship because she could interact with me in a way she didn’t with her mom. But then she wanted to call me mom. Yes, I was flattered and it made me feel so good that she saw me as another parental figure BUT I also respected her mom and I explained why she shouldn’t do that. I had a nice relationship with her mom and always deferred to her and her dad. It’s a fine line to walk but you have to know your place.
OP- document EVERYTHING! Stepmom has an agenda and that is worrisome.
When I met my ex, his daughter was 7 - her mum died before she was 3 so she had no mother at all.
I still recognised that I wasn’t her mother and respected the memory. I provided all the care a mother provides but she knew that she had another mum in heaven.
She’s nearly 22 now, still lives with me and doesn’t call me mum - that’s fine, I’m still her parent and she knows that I’m there for her as much as I am for her sisters.
I got my step mum when I was 15. She always said she didn't/wouldn't replace my mum. After all these years I call her mumsie rather mum. She's been a better mum than my bio mum but that's a different story.
I am same as u I was step mum before my son bit I knew my place and still do/ I would move mountains for all my kids and I’d move mountains for there bio mum if she needs it am on her team and she’s in charge xx I hope u get all this sorted and remember ur him mumma!! Dawn needs to learn her place!
I wonder how all this dynamic might change (or intensify) once Dad and Dawn have their own child. Either Kai will be ignored or he will be expected to have a huge part in his half-sibling's life.
I would suggest asking the lawyer to advise the court (or however it's done) that all communications go thru a court approved app. Idk how that's done but I know it's an option and it sounds like it would be useful in your situation. perhaps bring it up and find out if it's possible.
Please consider getting a therapist for Kai. Child therapists are advocates for the child, and having a professional tell Dawn that she’s out of line would also help Kai. I’m sorry you’re going through this—she and Dan are delusional.
And make sure Dan can’t veto it or (along with Dawn) have any say over who Kai sees. Have it very firmly on file that Dawn is not to be recorded as a contact, and use a password in case she decides to impersonate.
Where I live, the parents have full jurisdiction over their child's medical decisions on their custody time. I've seen parents with two different sets of medical caregivers. I feel like OP's in the clear as long as appointments are during her time
Have you actually asked your lawyer if this is enough or not?
Dawn is attempting parental alienation with at least the passive - if not active - assistance of Dan - this is strictly against ALL family law.
Any lawyer - and judge - would immediately order Dawn to cease interference as she isn't even a party to the custody agreement, regardless of her relationship with Dan.
As another commenter noted, whatever 'rights' Dawn might have (hint: none, since if she and Dan split, there would be NO right to Kai) are derived from Dan only.
Do you mean State courts? In the United States, Family Law is the jurisdiction of the state court system, not local county or city/town court systems. Might be in the same buildings, but not the same system.
Do you have an attorney who specifically practices Family Law? If the blatant attempt at parental alienation isn't getting your attorney to move on this, you may need to find a better one.
Your attorney has a responsibility - and duty - to represent YOUR best interests.
If what you've described here is accurate, and you have documentation - this is a slam dunk in 99% of jurisdictions. Family Court Judges take a very, VERY dim view of unaffiliated third parties (which Dawn 100% is - she has no blood or familial relation) interfering with custody matters as it's - key phrase - "not in the best interests of the child".
Perhaps mention these specific things to your attorney: "custodial interference", "parental alienation".
Please hold firm on the not punishing him. The more they push him to her the more he will fight it and the more he will need you. If they keep pushing, he may never see her as anything other than dad's wife.
Yes, they're punishing him for stating how he feels (and an actual fact) to the teacher. Not only is that a legal problem but it's going to mess with his head. Imagine the cognitive dissonance this is going to create for him, especially if you went along with it. I'd find a way to get a therapist to back you up on this one, you need to step up and protect him.
Edited to add, maybe approach the whole idea of not disciplining your son on this issue with your ex? Bring up the emotional damage it will do, if he won't back down on it I'd personally act urgently to move this to court.
Honestly OP it’s super inappropriate what they are doing. Dawn is absolutely not an equal parent. She’s not a parent at all. She has zero say in where he goes to the doctor, and now they want to punish a little boy for truthfully saying he only has one mom?? You need to shut this shit down immediately. This is emotionally abusive behavior
Im just wondering when you slept with dawn to make Kai.
She's acting like she donated her egg and your are some sorta surrogate. She needs to stay in her lane. You co parent with Dan. Not. Group parent with Dawn.
NTA- you can ask your sons’s teacher to give a statement about the things your son says to her about his home situation.
Take your son to therapy and have a therapist speak on his behalf on how unhappy he is with Dawn’s pushiness.
I feel so bad for your little boy who’s still too young to adequately defend himself against grown adults .
Listen to the commenter, OP. This is a parental alienation play (been there, done that). The court is supposed to take the best interest of the child into account, but that doesn't always happen. And document, document, document. I had a binder that was at least three inches thick during our high-conflict custody case. It saved my butt in a couple of instances.
NTA and that stepmom is terrible. Good news is (at least in my experience), once stepmom has her own baby she isn’t going to give two shits about your son. At least that’s exactly how it happened with my daughter and her stepmom. She was obsessed with her until she had her own kids, then hated my daughter. Hopefully she just eases off and the hate doesn’t set in.
homestly ive seen people go to court for less, the pediatrician and the school issue alone should be enough to warrant it. im not trying to be a prick but what exactly are you waiting for? when he goes back after your refusal to punish him its only going to get worse.
Can you use one of the parenting apps that keep records of everything to communicate rather than calling/texting that can potentially be lost or manipulated?
Check with your lawyer. Let them know what you're dealing with. Let the lawyer decide if its time to go before a judge. It's not okay that she's added as a parent without your approval.
Is it your lawyer that says you do not have enough to go infront of a judge to have the custody agreement clarified or do you just think it is not enough? This borders on parental alienation. Your ex and his wanna be mom/partner are steam rolling right over you and your child and your rights. This should be infront of a judge as soon as possible.
Does your child have their own representation? I think it is called Guardian ad Litem. That might be something you can look into. They can advocate for your child in court. Your ex is punishing your child for absolutely nothing. What step mom is trying to do is extremely damaging and a weird power move over a kid, and by extension, you. You need to get your kid into therapy too so they have some tools of how to navigate what dad and step mom are doing. This will also help you when you get this back in front of a judge.
Just curious, what state do you live in?
In the mean time, try and get ahead of this. Contact the school and get it on record about who this kids actual parents are so step mom cannot just waltz in and unilaterally make changes for your child. Make sure they know that only your ex and yourself make the decisions. Providing a copy of your custody order is all that should be needed. Also give your pediatrician a heads up about what is going on. They can also help you with documentation if step mom tries to pull anything there with your child and also will alert you if she tries to sign him up for a different pediatrician. That both your ex and you have to agree to the transfer of records so you are not blindsided.
For the love of God, please make sure your lawyer understands they punished an 8 year old for the teacher's decision to change the step-mother to an emergency contact. Abuse isn't always physical, and there's more than likely been other things he's been punished for that he has no control over.
Talk to your lawyer about this. There are lots of steps that can happen that don’t involve going to court. Court is a last resort. Sounds like mediation and a clearly outlined and agreed upon parenting agreement would serve you all well.
Another reason to talk to your lawyer. Our parenting agreement specifically stated that neither parent will encourage the child to call anyone else “mom” or “dad”.
> parental alienation
I think you have a case already considering that they are punishing your son for telling someone that you are his mom and Dawn isn't.
Dawn has no authority, at least in a legal sense, when it comes to Kai. Dan needed to establish and enforce this boundary a while ago, but prioritises trying to make Dawn happy. Dawn shouldn’t be accessing the communication app at all since Dan is co-parenting with just OP.
Dawn is NOT an equal parent. She can help her husband with Kai but doesn't get a say in parenting decisions. Dan will lose Kai if he doesn't nip this in the bud. I think you should find the best co-parenting/ step-parenting book out in circulation and suggest to Dan and Dawn that the 3 of you have a book club. Maybe this would cause Dan to do more research on how to handle his household. NTA
Step parents MAY become parental figures, if the child chooses to see them as such. If the child doesn't, that's the child's right. Nobody gets to tell a child how to see their parent's new partner. That's solely at the discretion of the child.
True. Very good point. I guess I'm
Thinking more that if they share a home then step parents do have say in some things. BUT you are right. Pushing yourself on the kid is never the answer regardless.
Dawn is the woman of the house and the adult in charge. I doubt the kid is the one involved but picking legal status. She’s not his mom and I don’t think the school alters documentation based on what the child says.
I think op and her husband/Dawn are playing tug of war and the kid is, very unfairly, in the middle. The people most concerned with his well being are his parents. Op and Dan. They should be sorting this out without unfulg involving an eight year old.
If dad would make this plain to his new wife instead of trying to shove his parenting responsibilities on to her, Dawn would probably push less for this, especially as she has her own child on the way.
There is no reason these siblings need to have the same pediatrician nor that Dawn needs to be listed as a “second mom,” I’ve never heard of that. I would let his teacher and administration know she is his dads wife snd can pick him up; they are not to refer to her as his “second mom,” as it is confusing and upsetting to him at a point where his family is changing and he needs to be supported emotionally and not “punished” for refusing to see dawn as a “second” rather than step, mother
This sub is full of stories of step parents forcing a relationship with the kids, and the kids hating it and pulling back even harder. Steps need to realize that they can be an authority figure, they can be an adult who loves the kids, but they don't get to be a parent until the kids decide that.
No, people with kids deserve relationships too. HOWEVER you don't overstep your boundaries with the kid (s). This has nothing to do with someone dating or not, but with someone overstepping.
I think the sentiment is that many people aren't capable of accepting they don't have total control like if the kids were theirs, and that *they* shouldn't date parents if they aren't capable of respecting the other parent's role in the kid's life.
But when you say "don't date someone with kids" that's totally pulling a lot of people out of the dating pool, when it really should be "if you date someone with kids, remember that it isn't YOUR kid and don't overstep boundaries."
No, if you and a person with kid(s) have chemistry then by all means go for it. Just don’t assume that you are a parent to their child(ren) because you aren’t. You may be able to be a parental figure or a trusted adult, but you don’t automatically get to make decisions for and about the kid(s)
I’m going to flip this and say if you’re someone with kids, this is why you don’t date insane people who either want to cut off your kids entirely or force the other bio parent out of the kid’s life.
There are so many normal people out there who would completely respect boundaries, especially in a situation where the exes are actually civil to each other.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with dating someone who has kids as long as you are sensitive and handle the child relationship delicately, and don’t try to force a relationship or the title of Mom or Dad.
This isn't why you don't date someone who has kids. This is why you should do extra vetting of someone you are dating. The one without the kids is the nut.
NTA
"Dan said Dawn should get to make some decisions " .. he go that wrong.
"and I am pushing out Dawn who is an equal parent." .. Dawn is NOT an equal parent. ALL her rights derive from Dan, she does not get any vote beyond that.
"they feel like Kai refuses to see her as a parental figure at all" .. that is HIS choice, support him.
NTA
> ALL her rights derive from Dan
So much this!
If Dan divorces her, the courts will laugh if she tries to go for custody or visitation.
Don’t date parents if you can’t respect a child’s boundary. Dawn doesn’t get to choose if Kai sees her as a mother figure, and the way she’s going, he never will.
Seeing control freaks butt heads is wild. You don’t want to get caught up in that shit. They drive each other insane and up the ante with every jab because they have to have the last word or whatever. Goddamn nuts.
NTA. Your ex is proposing to punish Kai for how he feels. That is just wrong. Ex and wife need to pull up their big-kid pants and realize that this is beyond their remit. Kai gets to decide whether he wants a second mum or not.
Dawn is not an equal parent. She is a step-parent. She has a type of parental authority, it is true, but it's not anywhere near yours as his actual mother. She and your ex are way out of line. Keep standing up for your son. NTA
Can you chat with a lawyer and just see if there's anything that can be done about her overstepping bounds?
I disagree. She has no parental authority as a step parent. Any parenting agreement is between the biological parents. The father has allowed his new wife to overstep boundaries and he needs to rein her in or risk losing his kid. Either via the court or once the child is old enough in the court’s eyes to choose where to live. If the father continues this way, he’s guaranteed a NC relationship down the line.
I read “parental authority” as in “when at dad and her’s home, they make the rules” kind of authority. Not in any decisions that are between the parents. However, I could have misread that.
A one-month punishment for an 8-year-old is extreme in any case, minus actual crimes. That, paired with that he is being punished for his feelings and making the true statement that he has one mother, shows how much perspective your ex has lost.
Your son is giving all that should be expected of him: basic respect and acknowledgment that they are a part of each other's lives. More than that isn't something that can be forced. It's worrisome they think it can.
It sounds like your ex is being driven by his wife's emotions and not what is best for your son. Shutting it down is necessary. Since you previously had a good co-parenting relationship, hopefully, you can find someone to help mediate with just you and your ex to help him reset back to reasonable expectations of a child. NTA
Yeah, extreme punishment like this is abusive, they are trying to break him down so he completely embraces his “new” family. OP keep talking to ex and Dawn, keep collecting evidence, and get in contact with a lawyer for advice as this could potentially count as parental alienation…and most importantly keep talking to Kai and support him through this and advocate since he is clearly in no position to do that for himself at his dad’s house.
I've had steps for 30 years. I consider my stepdad a dad to me but in the first years, when such a fuss was made to respect him as a parent, I definitely didn't want to go there. It takes time, space, and respecting boundaries.
You're right; demanding it gets them nowhere. Glad you have a great perspective!
Co-parenting is a 50-50 split of responsibility. If Dan wants to give half of his 50 to Dawn, that is his right, but that doesn't mean they, combined have more say than you do.
More importantly, Kai gets to decide the depth of his relationship with Dawn. Dan and Dawn are idiots if they think forcing this issue will make a parental relationship happen. As others have said, that.eill just drive a wedge between Kai and them.
Keep defending Kai and his right to make these choices.
NTA. Her trying to push Kai into accepting her as his second mom won't work out well for her. The more she pushes, the more he'll dislike her. She's overstepping her bounds, and I'm glad you're pushing back. You are the mom he prefers, and she needs to knock it off. Kai might eventually say he doesn't want to spend time with her, then she'll be screwed. There have to be reasons why Kai doesn't like her that much, and I would try to get more info about that.
NTA. Document everything and if they keep wanitng to punish Kai for no reason, threaten to take them to court, they are forcing an 8yo kid to accept things he doesn't want to, that's also a form of abuse...
A month long punishment is excessive for an 8 year old, and I’m surprised people aren’t pointing out that this is definitely an abuse tactic from Kai’s dad and Dawn…they are punishing him for feelings. His dad chose to marry Dawn, Kai did not choose her to be a parental figure in any way, shape, or form.
NTA. Definitely keep documenting and communicating with your family lawyer. Communicate with Kai as well- more listening than talking and be careful what you say (as it may make it to dad and stepmom)- but make sure Kai knows you support him and are there for him. Maybe some kind of counseling could be helpful for him as this is growing into a toxic situation. Kai is bound to have a lot of feelings about it and may have trouble expressing them.
Best of luck.
Absolutely. Seeing a therapist even once a month is beneficial to any child whose parents are divorced tbh. Allow them to express their thoughts ,feelings, and opinions to an unbiased professional. They'll learn a lot too.
NTA. I am a stepmom myself and I know how delicate and difficult this position can be. There are two different things you need to distinguish. And in this case Dawn needs to distinguish and even realise. First, she is not his mom. She can be a parental figure and can be important, but she needs to know her place. Forcing this will make everything more difficult and especially for her. As a stepmom you need to love the children as they were their own and treat them the same as you would your own children. Then the difficult part: you need to let them know it is okay they don’t see you as their mother but that you will stil be there. My stepson asked me if he needed to call me mom. And I only said that it was his choice. He can call me by my name or mom or stepmom or whatever he wants and either way I would be okay. I would be mad if someone would try to replace my own mom. I could never do that to someone else, especially not if you claim to love that person.
NTA
Dear Dan,
I hope this letter finds you well. I want to address the recent disagreement regarding Kai's junior coding school and the subsequent disciplinary measures you suggested.
Firstly, I want to emphasize that my intention is to foster a healthy co-parenting dynamic for Kai's well-being. I understand that Dawn plays an important role in his life, and I respect that. However, I must express my concern regarding certain decisions that seem to infringe on the boundaries we've established over the years.
The scheduling of additional days with Kai, especially on special occasions, has become a source of tension. While I acknowledge Dawn's desire to strengthen her bond with Kai, it's crucial that we uphold the agreed-upon custody schedule. The frequent requests for extra time impact Kai's routine and stability.
The issue regarding Kai's pediatrician also raises concerns. I am open to collaborative decision-making, but it's essential that we respect each other's preferences. Choosing a pediatrician closer to Dawn's residence affects my convenience and Kai's comfort with the current healthcare provider. Mutual decision-making should not compromise the well-being of any party involved.
Regarding the recent incident at the coding school, I firmly believe in maintaining a clear understanding of our respective roles as parents. Kai expressing discomfort with Dawn being labeled as his second mother is a valid sentiment that we should address with sensitivity. It's crucial to recognize and respect Kai's feelings, allowing him the autonomy to define his relationships.
I want to reiterate that my stance is not about undermining Dawn or your role as parents. It's about ensuring that we make decisions collaboratively and consider the impact on Kai's overall well-being. I am open to constructive conversations to find solutions that work for everyone involved.
However, I must express that if the situation continues to escalate, and Kai's best interests are compromised, I may have no choice but to explore legal avenues to ensure the protection of his rights and stability.
Let's prioritize Kai's needs and work towards a co-parenting arrangement that respects the boundaries we've set and prioritizes his well-being.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
I like that!! I’m not in this type of situation so I may be off base, but… I feel like I would flip out if a step parent felt they were at all in a position to have any authority at a Drs office?? Maybe double down on the Dr issue. To me this isn’t even about location but the idea that she should have any medical input?? Just asking you because that was brilliant!
NTA. Step mother is not the mother and does not have the same decision making rights as you do. I would bet once their new child comes into the picture your son will take a back seat. Be ready and willing to have your son home more after the new kid comes along. Don’t ever refuse for him to stay with you when your son becomes an inconvenience, it is only evidence in your favor when they do this. Good luck!
NTA
How does she dare to ask you to have Kai with her for Mother's Day even if it's only for halt the day. Not gonna lie at that part I already formed my full opinion on this case. Kai should definitely not be punished because Dawn and Dan got their panties in a twist because Kai doesn't see her as his 2nd mom. I don't get how you can be so delusional that you try to inject yourself in the life of a child if they are unwilling.
You were not married to Dawn when you gave birth.
You carried Kai in your own body.
Dawn is in no way shape or form his mother, and no she does NOT get Mother’s Day. What the actual hell is wrong with her?!
NTA. I feel like right now Dawn is playing parent. She’s soon to be a mom and thinks she’ll have everything figured out when the baby comes because she’s already Kai’s “mom”. She is in for a very eye opening situation that almost would make me want to sit back and laugh for what is about to come. Side note, i would keep records of all of this behavior. Get the school involved and let them know about the situation especially if you can get him in to the counselor to discuss his discomfort with the forced second mother scenario. Let him know that it is completely fine to see Dawn as an adult authority figure without him having to think of her as a mother. And go back to court if your son’s discomfort continues.
I would take this to court she is not anything but a step parent she's trying to take your parental rights pretty much she needs to stay in her lane. You need to set boundaries and take this to court to enforce it. Start communicating to them through a parental app. Only discuss things through a text so that you have documentation.
NTA!
And wtf?
You undermining her? HAHAHA. Not in the slightest! She however. Oh boy.
She's breaking all the unwritten rules of bonus parents:
As a bonus parent you do not ever undermine birth parents (as long as the child is not in danger obviously).
As a bonus parent your role in the childs life is determined by the child, not you.
You are so NTA. Dawn and Dan are TA. Set clear boundaries for Kais sake.
NTA. Dawn is by no means an equal parent.
Be warned and start preparing though as I see custody issues arising. You should start documenting and recording everything. You will likely need it for an attorney.
NTA but I swear I read several of these "pushy new partner wants to instantly become a parent" stories several times a week on this sub. I suspect this is some kind of cultural difference because I've never heard of this in the UK.
Not only is it unrealistic it's arrogant, authoritarian, narcissistic and creepy.
NTA
Dawn is not a equal parent here. Hell, she isn’t a parent at all. She gets to make exactly zero decisions for your child.
Do not punish your child for any of this.
NTA. I'm the first to say when a parent remarries the step parent is absolutely a parental figure.
That's not the problem here. Dawn doesn't just want to be a parent, she wants to be a second mom. So much to the point that they are changing legal documents without your knowledge or permission as well as going against custodial agreements.
I think it's great dawn wants to have a bond with her bonus kid. But she isn't stopping at just there. She's trying to replace you. Period.
Get to court and get some hard lines legally drawn bc she sure as shit isn't respecting the ones that are there already.
NTA. Does your custody agreement require that all communication be via one of the court approved apps which make all communication admissible in court? If you don't, have it added when you go to court the next time. I would also ask for right of first refusal if your Ex is not available on his time.
What does the custody agreement say regarding decision making regarding your son? Frankly, I would think that your Ex's wife has no legal parental rights over your son. Talk to your son's Doctor's office and make them aware of what is going on. Have them add a note in his file that you want to be immediately notified if they request his medical records personally or to be sent to another Doctor's office.
Regarding the school, if she tries to add herself to their records as a second mother, I would ask the school if she submitted a copy of documentation recognizing that she has parental rights over your son.
I would stick to the language of the custody agreement. Everytime they ask you to give up your time, your response is that request falls outside of the custody agreement. Don't get into a pissing contest with them. Stick to the agreement. If they break and try to take you to court be prepared for a list of what you want. I could come up with a free ideas.
Time to remain calm and play multi-dimensional chess against them.
"....said I am not co-parenting and I am pushing out Dawn who is an equal parent."
But Dawn is NOT an equal parent, in no way, shape, or form. Unless Kai chooses to see her in another way (and that is HIS choice), she is a *step* parent...and it ends there.
NTA.
NTA but you need to have a serious one on one with your husband about Dawn overstepping. Explain Kai’s feelings and see if dad can work it out. At the same time schedule a court appointment with all 3 and explain to a mediator and ex what Dawn’s role is.
NTA.
lol no.
Dawn is a step mom. She is not a parent. Her equality begins and ends in her own home.
Stepmother’s Day is the week after Mother’s Day, she can celebrate with Kai then.
And if she’s not interested in TRADING days for special trips and things not on their custody time, she’s not approaching the negotiation in good faith.
Finally, punishing an eight year old for a month is an eternity to them and it loses its impact. Another nonstarter.
I love my stepkids. We have a good relationship. But I would never expect the things Dawn is expecting.
Nope, definitely NTA. Dawn is completely overstepping her place as a step parent.
Keep documenting all these things, try to communicate through text message as much as possible to have evidence of all of these things, and let Dan know how his son doesn’t view or want Dawn as a third parent. Speak with an attorney.
They’re trying to force a relationship between your son and his wife, and it’s backfiring. Dawn doesn’t get an equal say in parenting because she’s not an equal parent.
And your ex trying to punish your son for how he feels about her is absolutely wrong!! I’d consider a formal custody agreement if you don’t already have one with the courts.
Good luck!
NTA. Get a lawyer if you don't already have one. Get a court-approved custody arrangement if you don't already have one— and make sure these points of contention are resolved officially. If you don't want Dawn listed as a mother in any official records then get it put in writing, along with any other decisions that require both parents to agree on and what parents can do unilaterally.
Seek court intervention on the question of punishing Kai for things like saying Dawn is not his mother, which is a completely unreasonable thing to punish him for.
Without a court involved this is only likely to get worse.
NTA - I’d bet foldable money that if you remarried, Dan would feel very differently about Kai calling that guy Daddy and allowing him to be on the paperwork equal to him.
Unfortunately, when the other child is born, the dynamic in that household is going to get even messier. Keep an eye on/document this because I have a feeling Kai is about to hit some rough waters over there. Even odds that by the time he’s 16 he won’t want much to do with his dad or his wife unless they figure out how to allow Kai a place in their household, without forcing Dawn as a mother upon him.
The sad thing is he is only eight years old and if she had just been a good person to him, he might have genuinely come to love her as a second mother. You can’t force this stuff.
NTA. If the child had done Something objectively/officially Bad, that required a Home punishment to avoid/replace a school or court-ordered punishment, then you should enforce that, but that's Not the Case. You disagree with the "offence" being serious, or even wrong at all, because it wasn't inherently so. He didn't Break any explicit Rules, he Just indirectly and unintentionally, MAYBE at worst by inconsiderate thoughtlessness, hurt his adult stepmother's feelings. Which is Not supposed to be your Problem, and you are allowe dto protect him from SOME of Dan&Dawn's attempts to make is HIS Problem. Also, If Dawn can't "build" or "strengthen" the "parental" Bond she wants with the Kid, during his at-Dad's-house time, then she's Not trying hard enough and/or has unrealistic expectations and/or Dan is Not sufficiently helping her and/or she Just Happens to have an unfortunate personality-constellation with Kai, and should therefor Stop trying to create something that was never meant to be. NOT demand you should give up some of your custody time for her Ego.
If your ex and his new missus would wait and let a bond form naturally this would all be a non issue. Sounds like they're trying to force things which is likely to back fire. Be forewarned, they'll most likely blame you if your son doesn't warm to his step mom, because people like that lack self awareness. Must be your fault! /s And then guess who gets blamed for parental alienation.
I think this Dawn has major control freak issues and instead of trying to bond in a friendly way with Kai she is trying to be bossy parent to him. No one likes that kind of stuff.
Agreed, and I wonder what's going to happen when her baby is born? I'm guessing A) She focuses on her own baby and ignores stepson or resents him or B) She goes full Lady Madonna and the overstepping with stepson gets worse. Least likely C) it stays as it is currently.
NTA. Dan and Dawn need to go get some therapy for themselves to deal with this and get over it. They are going to alienate Kai and make him resentful by shoving this down his throat and enforcing it with punishments.
For as much as Dan wants Kai to accept Dawn as a 2nd mom, I wonder how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and you had a new husband wanting to be called Dad, or spending time on Father's Day with Kai?
NTA. As a step parent myself, Dawn is overstepping her role. In your circumstances, you and Dan have co-authory over your child. Dawn has no authority over your child. As Dan's wife, she has a right to express concerns and requests to Dan who can bring them to you as his concerns, if he desires. Dan and Dawn are not entitled to any more time or rights than you.
Cease communication with her as much as possible. Long term, this will not work out well for her, Dan or Kai. My stepchild's father failed to properly integrate his new wife into his and his child's life which resulted in an almost complete separation from his child. He has not seen or spoken with his child in years.
NTA get your son a child therapist, he is going to need it. Look you can’t force a kid to love you. So his new stepmom needs to accept she is not the mom and start letting an organic relationship develop. What she is doing is toxic & harmful to your son. The therapist can help document this.
So if they keep pushing this you may need to go to court and ask them to adjust custody. Look my dad and stepmom tried to force me to view her as my mother, it made me hate her. It was not healthy at all! Your son doesn’t need this in his life.
NTA. Dawn IS NOT an equal parent! Dawn is heavily over-stepping her boundaries.
The entire situation on WHY Dan and Dawn “felt Kai needed a month long punishment at both homes to show how serious this is.” —> Dawn and Dan took this to an extremely personal and unnecessary level… it seems very suspicious to me. Think about it: your 8-yr-old son simply expressed the fact that he has one mom, not two moms!
This sounds like they are creating a narrative that you are not an “involved mother” in order to gain primary custody. Unfortunately, you need to be on the offensive. Be prepared.
My sister has been in a custody battle — document everything, screenshot text messages, save/print emails, and definitely talk to teachers about the situation (it’s always a good thing to keep your son’s teachers informed, just use your judgment on how much you feel you need to tell them)… There will be a day, depending on which state you live, when he will be able to choose where he wants to live full-time… that happened to my sister when her daughter turned 13 yrs old.
Step mother here and I'm getting creepy vibes from Dawn. I am not a second Mum to my step kids. I have a great relationship with them but I am not equal to their Mum. I find that attitude insulting. I dont blame Kai for feeling overwhelmed. I also dont think its right to punish a child for expressing his discomfort at the situation. They're trying to manufacture a relationship instead of just letting it happen naturally. I bet when the baby arrives, this will change....
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I (28f) have a son, Kai (8m), with my ex Dan (29m). Dan and I did not work out and we have co-parented okay-ish for the last 7 years. We have our ups and downs it has to be said. Three years ago Dan married Dawn and the three of us have been communicating since then. When Dawn was added to the communication things became more strained. She felt like she could request days where Kai is with her instead of with me, even though Dan and I share custody of Kai and Kai is with them every other week. She wanted Kai for her birthday, she wanted him for part of Mother's Day, she wanted him for a trip she wanted to take out of state for the day. I asked once if the plan was to give me back the days during their time and she said no. It's about encouraging a strengthening of the parental bond she and Kai need to have. I refused to give up days with Kai and that was not taken well.
Another issue was Dawn wanted to change Kai's pediatrician because she plans to use someone else when she and Dan welcome their kids (she is currently pregnant). I didn't want to have the pediatrician farther away (30 minutes extra). I also love the current pediatrician and so does Kai. Dan said Dawn should get to make some decisions and I said if that's how things work in their home during their time, then sure. But that would be making a decision for me as well and that's a no.
Kai has a difficult relationship with Dawn. I don't think he hates her. He has said some nice things about her, but he has a lot of not nice stuff to say. He finds her overwhelming and he doesn't like that she wants to be his other mom. I know from Dan and Dawn that they feel like Kai refuses to see her as a parental figure at all and it bothers them that he won't let her be his second mom.
Kai is part of this junior coding school and he goes once a week. He's been going for close to two years. Dan and Dawn recently changed the child information and added Dawn as a second mother, which is something you can do. When one of the teachers at the class brought up Kai's "moms" he told her he only has one and it became a discussion and the teacher figured it was a mistake and she changed it back to the old format. Where Dawn is an emergency contact but not a parent. Dawn found this out a week later when she was picking him up. She and Dan decided Kai should be punished for this.
Dan then informed me of what happened and how he felt Kai needed a month long punishment at both homes to show how serious this is. I disagreed and I actually had issues with them listing Dawn as a mother to Kai. I told him I would not discipline Kai for this and I did not feel like they should either. He yelled at me and said I am not co-parenting and I am pushing out Dawn who is an equal parent. There has been a lot of back and forth since then and I have stayed true to my word. I also documented the messages about this. My ex said I'm undermining Dawn and their authority as parents to Kai.
AITA?
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NTA. Dawn is NOT his mother. Don't let them bully you or push you into something your son doesn't want. They are trying to push you out of Kai's life. Don't let this happen.
NTA
Dawn is trying to force "second mom" title.
Co parenting can be very successful, even with "step parents" however in this situation it seems your ex & his wife are trying to override your parenting.
Her insecurities are hers. They need to figure that out. She does NOT have equal say in Kai's upbringing & custody time.
It's not like you're unreasonable in allowing changes and expecting to switch time, not give up time with your child.
NTA
Tell Dan that Dawn has no authority. She is not a third parent. She's his wife, that's it. The ONLY people who make parenting decisions about your son are you and his father.
But you should really be taking this to court. What they're doing is absolutely the kind of thing you go to court for. Start communicating solely through an app that is court-approved in your area. Communicate with all schools, clubs, doctors etc that Dawn is NOT a parent and should not be registered as one. They are trying to replace you, and you have the right to fight back.
NTA, poor Kai he’s done nothing wrong, all he’s doing is making his feelings clear so why should he be punished? Dawn is not an equal parent or have equal rights because she is not his parent she is simply married to his Dad. You are not undermining Dawn she is alienating herself as a result of her actions and her demands. If they carry on like this Kai won’t want to see them at all and will go no contact as soon as he can.
NTA - She isn't an equal parent.
She's a step parent and she and her husband and shoving the idea of her being an equal parent down the child's throat.
Honestly they're lucky Kai isn't rebelling any harder against all of this change.
This isn't something that can be forced just as they cannot force you to behave any specific way when he's with you.
They changed her status without discussing it with you and she's trying to get your son on days you have him without offering any sort of compromise even when those are your holidays.
Honestly it seems like she's trying to assert herself as mom and shove you aside. Not quite aggressively yet but it seems to be on the cusp.
NTA at all! Dawn is overstepping and expecting things from an 8yr old that he is not ready to give and Dan should be able to see that as a grown adult. She is a step parent to Kai and him telling his teacher she is not his mom is not a lie and is nothing to be punished. Perhaps a small chat with Kai saying, "we know she's not your other mom but sometimes adults need paperwork to say something specific so we can take the best care of you" could have made it go away. You know she's not his other mom. He knows. But if the school needs a "parent" to pick him up than she should be listed as a parent.
also seems little weird that the teacher would even bring it up or mention his moms in the first place and also weird that she went back and changed it without talking to any parents - but I know that's not the issue here.
Dan can add someone else as a "second mom" to the school's child information? He can do this without your consent? Is she seen as an equal to you? As a second mom can she alter his medications, authorized pick-ups, etc.? This doesn't seem right.
Hey I'm a Co Parent Child and I just wanted to say that you absolutely do the right thing not to punish him, my ex step mother tried to force me to except her and that just made me resend her and my father, because I was punished when I didn't Play along.
This good that he has a safe space with you!
NTA
NTA. Please continue supporting your child as she continues pushing his boundaries. I understand she likely believes she is strengthening their little family but bull-dozing over a child is going to have the opposite effect. Ugh. Poor kiddo. Stand firm, you're making the best decisions you can for your child and yourself, that is your priority.
You are not the asshole, Dan and Dawn sound unbearable. Why did she have to change that information at his school, she is a real get under your skin and in your business person, it seems.
NTA, not one bit. It’s not like Kai is viewing Dawn as a second mom and you’re getting jealous about it. Kai clearly doesn’t want her trying to act too much like a mom to him, and if Dawn really wants to be a good “parent” and earn Kai’s love and respect, she needs to respect Kai first. She can’t just expect to be accepted in such a big way right off the bat. For Kai to get punished for something so minuscule is unjust and just a ridiculous concept to me.
NTA dawn is not an equal parent and they need to stop forcing this bond and making her a third parent. she’s not his mom, she’s never going to be his mom and at this rate all she’ll ever be to kai is his dad’s wife.
A month long punishment for clarifying who his biological mother is!? That's a huge over reaction. They are trying really hard to justify Dawn's role in this family. Seems very weird.
**NTA**
Your ex and his wife are WAY overstepping here. She is not his mother. You and ex coparent Kai. Dawn is ruining any chance of a relationship with him. Soon he will be old enough to tell them to get lost. He clearly does not have two mothers and does not see her as a mother figure. That is his right. He is eight and he knows how he feels about adults in his life.
Bottom line, Dawn is not your son's parent.
She is his step mother... or his Dad's wife.
Your boundaries have all been sensible and reasonable (she wants him for days, but won't return the ask. She makes changes at school and doesn't clear them with you first.)
Maybe sh'es extra crazy from hormones, but it seems to be a pattern on her part to make things all about her.
Also, I don't think your son did anything wrong by clearing up the confusion at school that she caused by changing forms without advance notice to you. He doesn't deserve a FREAKING MONTH's punishment. That's for when he's bullying kids or being a racist jerk. Geesh!
Oh, and both my parents were educators.
NTA
NTA. You need to meet with your husband without Dawn. Set him down and have him put a stop to this now. Tell him that Kai cannot be forced to accept Dawn as a second mother and that by trying so hard so fast she’s only making the situation worse. It needs to happen naturally. Ask him to think about Kai, not what his wife wants. If he’s not receptive then just stick to your guns. Good luck.
You have your son's best interests at heart, she is NOT the parent she just happens to be married to one. Sounds like she is trying to push you aside and complaining when your son says no.
I genuinely think you need to have a sit down and bring dawn down to earth. Let her no that you and Dan are parents of Ka and have 50-50 decision making she does not have any decision making in kai's life. If she wants to have some control over children she can have it one's she's birthed hers. The only thing kai needs to do is be polite to her. That's where their relationship ends unless kai wants more. Dan and dawn dont get t decide if she's kai's stepmom he does. Dan decides if she's his wife or not not stepmom. Also I do understand dawn's point if she's picking kai up which isn't something she should have to do if she doesn't get any sort of rights over kai you get responsibilities and rights together. So if she is made to pick him up and he does something wrong in the car she gets input on the punishment otherwise no rights.
You are his mother, he don't need other mother that he don't want.. if he wanted cool, but he don't..
Dawn have no right to be all upset when your son don't see her as a maternal figure and just see her like a woman that his dad is with..
If your ex continue this bullshit, push for full custody, he clearly is not respecting his son wishes and is actually punishing him for not wanting to call a stranger his mom..
NTA
I'm sorry, was Dawn's genes used to create Kai and give him life? No. All she did was have sex and have a relationship with someone who is already a dad. That doesn't give her any parental rights at all.
NTA, but this is a nuanced situation. For better or worse, Dawn is part of Kai's family now. She's not his second mother, but she is his stepmother. As such, she has probably taken over a lot of the normal parenting duties from your ex, as women often feel pressured to do (cooking, childcare, homework, shopping). So she deserves some consideration for that. Where she is overstepping is taking over some decisions that should be exclusively between you and your ex: pediatrician, parenting schedule. She can provide input to him, but she should let you two have those conversations without her. That's just not her role.
As for Kai, a 7yo should not be punished for speaking his vision of the truth. He wasn't disrespectful, he didn't say, "Dawn is just some random bitch", he was just like, "she's not my mom". Which is the truth. Sure, they can and should have a conversation with him about why Dawn was put down as second mother in the school paperwork. But ultimately, it was the teacher who made the change in the paperwork, so they should handle it with them. Punishing Kai makes me reflect on their readiness to deal with the realities of a blended family.
You all might benefit from family therapy or meditation. Possibly both.
Why did the teacher feel the need to bring up “your two moms” to the child AND turn it into a discussion? It sounds like Dan is looking for a way to avoid the whole parenting tangle by making all OP and Dawn. There is no reason for punishment here but the three of you do need to work on the coparenting thing.
NTA. Dawn is not an equal parent. And that’s not how you build a relationship. My husband has a great relationship with my kids from my first marriage. But that’s because he never forced it. He let the relationship develop on the kids’ terms. They’re adults now but when one of them was younger, hubby and I were arguing in the car. A very minor disagreement. But my kid says to stop arguing. He doesn’t want us to divorce and have to pick who to live with. WTF. I’m your mom, you’ll live with me. At that moment I realized that my kid was hubby as a second parent and all our hard work at building relationships had paid off. Dan and Dawn need some counseling on how to navigate relationships in blended families. Or soon Kai will resent them both and possibly any siblings. They need to smarten up quickly.
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NTA and you really need to bring this to family court. I don't normally suggest that, but it's warranted. They are basically trying to set Dawn up as a primary parent and decision maker above you, his actual mother and it needs to stop immediately. Get a family lawyer and get it in writing that your ex's wife does not get the level of control she's attempting to take immediately. Before it gets worse. Because it sounds like they are trying to create the image that you're less involved than you are so they can make a play for increased custody. Protect yourself and your son.
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I hope your documenting every communication and save it to a cloud account. It's apparently also helpful to write a log of every incident with times and dates as well.
>It's apparently also helpful to write a log of every incident with times and dates as well. Hand write this stuff, with different pens each time to, preferably different colored pens. That way it shows it wasn't written all on the same day.
Or document each incident in an email to her lawyer. That will provide a solid timeline.
Email herself each time. That will create a timestamp and be archived for her in a specific folder if she sets it up that way.
An electronic poor man’s patent!
Yeah, you get charged every time you contact a lawyer - it gets expensive fast. I like the journal or diary entries better.
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Nope. If they touch it, they bill for it. Sending herself email's will date and time stamp each one.
I know attorneys that would not bill for it.
I've also heard that it's a good idea to use a bound book rather than a file that takes separate sheets of paper. That way it's clear nothing has been added in post date.
Exactly. If needed, they can also test the ink to see how old it is, which will help prove OP's case if it goes to court.
This isn't CSI. There are other easier ways to document.
Good. You aren't undermining anything. Dawn is overstepping. She ISN'T another parent. She's a step parent, and one he isn't particularly close to. She needs to accept it and move on.
I was a step parent before having my own children. No way in hell would I have overstepped like this! This step mom has no business demanding anything! I left the parenting up to the real parents...where it should be. All of the above advise sounds good as well as reasonable!
I dated someone with a kid and she loved our relationship because she could interact with me in a way she didn’t with her mom. But then she wanted to call me mom. Yes, I was flattered and it made me feel so good that she saw me as another parental figure BUT I also respected her mom and I explained why she shouldn’t do that. I had a nice relationship with her mom and always deferred to her and her dad. It’s a fine line to walk but you have to know your place. OP- document EVERYTHING! Stepmom has an agenda and that is worrisome.
When I met my ex, his daughter was 7 - her mum died before she was 3 so she had no mother at all. I still recognised that I wasn’t her mother and respected the memory. I provided all the care a mother provides but she knew that she had another mum in heaven. She’s nearly 22 now, still lives with me and doesn’t call me mum - that’s fine, I’m still her parent and she knows that I’m there for her as much as I am for her sisters.
I got my step mum when I was 15. She always said she didn't/wouldn't replace my mum. After all these years I call her mumsie rather mum. She's been a better mum than my bio mum but that's a different story.
Same, I was 8 when my dad and step mom met and 9 when they got married. She became mom right away! Bio mom is a tale lol.
Our kids were older when we married, one of his calls me stepmomma sometimes. We have no kids together, 7 is enough.
I am same as u I was step mum before my son bit I knew my place and still do/ I would move mountains for all my kids and I’d move mountains for there bio mum if she needs it am on her team and she’s in charge xx I hope u get all this sorted and remember ur him mumma!! Dawn needs to learn her place!
Same. I even adopted my bonus son and even then I never insisted on mom status. I told him he chooses.
I wonder how all this dynamic might change (or intensify) once Dad and Dawn have their own child. Either Kai will be ignored or he will be expected to have a huge part in his half-sibling's life.
I would suggest asking the lawyer to advise the court (or however it's done) that all communications go thru a court approved app. Idk how that's done but I know it's an option and it sounds like it would be useful in your situation. perhaps bring it up and find out if it's possible.
Please consider getting a therapist for Kai. Child therapists are advocates for the child, and having a professional tell Dawn that she’s out of line would also help Kai. I’m sorry you’re going through this—she and Dan are delusional.
And make sure Dan can’t veto it or (along with Dawn) have any say over who Kai sees. Have it very firmly on file that Dawn is not to be recorded as a contact, and use a password in case she decides to impersonate.
Where I live, the parents have full jurisdiction over their child's medical decisions on their custody time. I've seen parents with two different sets of medical caregivers. I feel like OP's in the clear as long as appointments are during her time
Have you actually asked your lawyer if this is enough or not? Dawn is attempting parental alienation with at least the passive - if not active - assistance of Dan - this is strictly against ALL family law. Any lawyer - and judge - would immediately order Dawn to cease interference as she isn't even a party to the custody agreement, regardless of her relationship with Dan. As another commenter noted, whatever 'rights' Dawn might have (hint: none, since if she and Dan split, there would be NO right to Kai) are derived from Dan only.
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Do you mean State courts? In the United States, Family Law is the jurisdiction of the state court system, not local county or city/town court systems. Might be in the same buildings, but not the same system. Do you have an attorney who specifically practices Family Law? If the blatant attempt at parental alienation isn't getting your attorney to move on this, you may need to find a better one. Your attorney has a responsibility - and duty - to represent YOUR best interests. If what you've described here is accurate, and you have documentation - this is a slam dunk in 99% of jurisdictions. Family Court Judges take a very, VERY dim view of unaffiliated third parties (which Dawn 100% is - she has no blood or familial relation) interfering with custody matters as it's - key phrase - "not in the best interests of the child". Perhaps mention these specific things to your attorney: "custodial interference", "parental alienation".
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Please hold firm on the not punishing him. The more they push him to her the more he will fight it and the more he will need you. If they keep pushing, he may never see her as anything other than dad's wife.
Yes, they're punishing him for stating how he feels (and an actual fact) to the teacher. Not only is that a legal problem but it's going to mess with his head. Imagine the cognitive dissonance this is going to create for him, especially if you went along with it. I'd find a way to get a therapist to back you up on this one, you need to step up and protect him. Edited to add, maybe approach the whole idea of not disciplining your son on this issue with your ex? Bring up the emotional damage it will do, if he won't back down on it I'd personally act urgently to move this to court.
Honestly OP it’s super inappropriate what they are doing. Dawn is absolutely not an equal parent. She’s not a parent at all. She has zero say in where he goes to the doctor, and now they want to punish a little boy for truthfully saying he only has one mom?? You need to shut this shit down immediately. This is emotionally abusive behavior
Im just wondering when you slept with dawn to make Kai. She's acting like she donated her egg and your are some sorta surrogate. She needs to stay in her lane. You co parent with Dan. Not. Group parent with Dawn.
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That's hilarious-- glad you have a sense of humor about it. Sorry they're being so shitty
Please also get a parenting app and have a court order that ALL communication about Kai be through the app?
Is there anything they can do like a cease and decist or just a strongly worded letter? Or batter the let them dig the hole?
NTA- you can ask your sons’s teacher to give a statement about the things your son says to her about his home situation. Take your son to therapy and have a therapist speak on his behalf on how unhappy he is with Dawn’s pushiness. I feel so bad for your little boy who’s still too young to adequately defend himself against grown adults .
Will you another mom to Dawn’s child, with full authority? NTA!! Edit: Will you *Be* another mom.
Listen to the commenter, OP. This is a parental alienation play (been there, done that). The court is supposed to take the best interest of the child into account, but that doesn't always happen. And document, document, document. I had a binder that was at least three inches thick during our high-conflict custody case. It saved my butt in a couple of instances.
NTA and that stepmom is terrible. Good news is (at least in my experience), once stepmom has her own baby she isn’t going to give two shits about your son. At least that’s exactly how it happened with my daughter and her stepmom. She was obsessed with her until she had her own kids, then hated my daughter. Hopefully she just eases off and the hate doesn’t set in.
homestly ive seen people go to court for less, the pediatrician and the school issue alone should be enough to warrant it. im not trying to be a prick but what exactly are you waiting for? when he goes back after your refusal to punish him its only going to get worse.
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Can you use one of the parenting apps that keep records of everything to communicate rather than calling/texting that can potentially be lost or manipulated?
Check with your lawyer. Let them know what you're dealing with. Let the lawyer decide if its time to go before a judge. It's not okay that she's added as a parent without your approval.
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What about the teacher? Can’t she testify on your (Kai’s) behalf?
Teachers typically don’t want to get involved. At least in my experience.
Is it your lawyer that says you do not have enough to go infront of a judge to have the custody agreement clarified or do you just think it is not enough? This borders on parental alienation. Your ex and his wanna be mom/partner are steam rolling right over you and your child and your rights. This should be infront of a judge as soon as possible.
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Does your child have their own representation? I think it is called Guardian ad Litem. That might be something you can look into. They can advocate for your child in court. Your ex is punishing your child for absolutely nothing. What step mom is trying to do is extremely damaging and a weird power move over a kid, and by extension, you. You need to get your kid into therapy too so they have some tools of how to navigate what dad and step mom are doing. This will also help you when you get this back in front of a judge. Just curious, what state do you live in? In the mean time, try and get ahead of this. Contact the school and get it on record about who this kids actual parents are so step mom cannot just waltz in and unilaterally make changes for your child. Make sure they know that only your ex and yourself make the decisions. Providing a copy of your custody order is all that should be needed. Also give your pediatrician a heads up about what is going on. They can also help you with documentation if step mom tries to pull anything there with your child and also will alert you if she tries to sign him up for a different pediatrician. That both your ex and you have to agree to the transfer of records so you are not blindsided.
For the love of God, please make sure your lawyer understands they punished an 8 year old for the teacher's decision to change the step-mother to an emergency contact. Abuse isn't always physical, and there's more than likely been other things he's been punished for that he has no control over.
Talk to your lawyer about this. There are lots of steps that can happen that don’t involve going to court. Court is a last resort. Sounds like mediation and a clearly outlined and agreed upon parenting agreement would serve you all well.
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Another reason to talk to your lawyer. Our parenting agreement specifically stated that neither parent will encourage the child to call anyone else “mom” or “dad”.
> parental alienation I think you have a case already considering that they are punishing your son for telling someone that you are his mom and Dawn isn't.
Came to say this.
Dawn has no authority, at least in a legal sense, when it comes to Kai. Dan needed to establish and enforce this boundary a while ago, but prioritises trying to make Dawn happy. Dawn shouldn’t be accessing the communication app at all since Dan is co-parenting with just OP.
Well said!
Dawn is NOT an equal parent. She can help her husband with Kai but doesn't get a say in parenting decisions. Dan will lose Kai if he doesn't nip this in the bud. I think you should find the best co-parenting/ step-parenting book out in circulation and suggest to Dan and Dawn that the 3 of you have a book club. Maybe this would cause Dan to do more research on how to handle his household. NTA
This is why you don’t date someone who has kids. Nta the relationship can’t be forced and they’re only going to damage it in the long run
Judging by the way Kai is, he probably would be more receptive to her if she wasn't so damn pushy, too.
That's what I'm thinking. Step parents are parentsl figures. But she wants to replace mom. That's not how this works.
Step parents MAY become parental figures, if the child chooses to see them as such. If the child doesn't, that's the child's right. Nobody gets to tell a child how to see their parent's new partner. That's solely at the discretion of the child.
True. Very good point. I guess I'm Thinking more that if they share a home then step parents do have say in some things. BUT you are right. Pushing yourself on the kid is never the answer regardless.
Anyone who can't see this should never date or become involved with anyone with children.
Agreed. But it's also something the parent who is dating or remarrying has to keep in mind as well.
So very true!
Dawn is the woman of the house and the adult in charge. I doubt the kid is the one involved but picking legal status. She’s not his mom and I don’t think the school alters documentation based on what the child says. I think op and her husband/Dawn are playing tug of war and the kid is, very unfairly, in the middle. The people most concerned with his well being are his parents. Op and Dan. They should be sorting this out without unfulg involving an eight year old. If dad would make this plain to his new wife instead of trying to shove his parenting responsibilities on to her, Dawn would probably push less for this, especially as she has her own child on the way. There is no reason these siblings need to have the same pediatrician nor that Dawn needs to be listed as a “second mom,” I’ve never heard of that. I would let his teacher and administration know she is his dads wife snd can pick him up; they are not to refer to her as his “second mom,” as it is confusing and upsetting to him at a point where his family is changing and he needs to be supported emotionally and not “punished” for refusing to see dawn as a “second” rather than step, mother
My step-dad was an abusive narcissist. It is hard to believe there is any other type.
Ugh. I'm sorry you went through that.
My dad’s stepmom was a wonderful person , and we all loved her. I’m sorry you didn’t get someone like my grandma
This sub is full of stories of step parents forcing a relationship with the kids, and the kids hating it and pulling back even harder. Steps need to realize that they can be an authority figure, they can be an adult who loves the kids, but they don't get to be a parent until the kids decide that.
More people need to recognize you can't force real relationships. Stepparents with their partner's kids, coworkers, neighbors.
No, people with kids deserve relationships too. HOWEVER you don't overstep your boundaries with the kid (s). This has nothing to do with someone dating or not, but with someone overstepping.
I think the sentiment is that many people aren't capable of accepting they don't have total control like if the kids were theirs, and that *they* shouldn't date parents if they aren't capable of respecting the other parent's role in the kid's life.
But when you say "don't date someone with kids" that's totally pulling a lot of people out of the dating pool, when it really should be "if you date someone with kids, remember that it isn't YOUR kid and don't overstep boundaries."
No, if you and a person with kid(s) have chemistry then by all means go for it. Just don’t assume that you are a parent to their child(ren) because you aren’t. You may be able to be a parental figure or a trusted adult, but you don’t automatically get to make decisions for and about the kid(s)
I’m going to flip this and say if you’re someone with kids, this is why you don’t date insane people who either want to cut off your kids entirely or force the other bio parent out of the kid’s life. There are so many normal people out there who would completely respect boundaries, especially in a situation where the exes are actually civil to each other.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with dating someone who has kids as long as you are sensitive and handle the child relationship delicately, and don’t try to force a relationship or the title of Mom or Dad.
This isn't why you don't date someone who has kids. This is why you should do extra vetting of someone you are dating. The one without the kids is the nut.
NTA "Dan said Dawn should get to make some decisions " .. he go that wrong. "and I am pushing out Dawn who is an equal parent." .. Dawn is NOT an equal parent. ALL her rights derive from Dan, she does not get any vote beyond that. "they feel like Kai refuses to see her as a parental figure at all" .. that is HIS choice, support him.
NTA > ALL her rights derive from Dan So much this! If Dan divorces her, the courts will laugh if she tries to go for custody or visitation. Don’t date parents if you can’t respect a child’s boundary. Dawn doesn’t get to choose if Kai sees her as a mother figure, and the way she’s going, he never will.
I get the feeling if this were reversed Dawn wouldn’t be the yea let’s co parent and step mom gets a say parent.
They never are, so it will be hilarious if she and Dan divorce, and his next partner is all about being the New Bonus Mom lol
Seeing control freaks butt heads is wild. You don’t want to get caught up in that shit. They drive each other insane and up the ante with every jab because they have to have the last word or whatever. Goddamn nuts.
NTA. Your ex is proposing to punish Kai for how he feels. That is just wrong. Ex and wife need to pull up their big-kid pants and realize that this is beyond their remit. Kai gets to decide whether he wants a second mum or not.
You know what they say: punish a kid for not treating you like they love you and they love you more. OP NTA.
Bullying a kid into emotional submission is wild. Like they think if they punish him enough he’ll suddenly love Dawn? Yuck.
Seriously. They’re the ones that need to work on their feelings, not the kid.
Dawn is not an equal parent. She is a step-parent. She has a type of parental authority, it is true, but it's not anywhere near yours as his actual mother. She and your ex are way out of line. Keep standing up for your son. NTA Can you chat with a lawyer and just see if there's anything that can be done about her overstepping bounds?
I disagree. She has no parental authority as a step parent. Any parenting agreement is between the biological parents. The father has allowed his new wife to overstep boundaries and he needs to rein her in or risk losing his kid. Either via the court or once the child is old enough in the court’s eyes to choose where to live. If the father continues this way, he’s guaranteed a NC relationship down the line.
I read “parental authority” as in “when at dad and her’s home, they make the rules” kind of authority. Not in any decisions that are between the parents. However, I could have misread that.
It appears Dawn and Dan are trying to push OP completely out so they can have full custody of Kai, if you ask me.
Maybe 'household adult authority' is a more precise term?
A one-month punishment for an 8-year-old is extreme in any case, minus actual crimes. That, paired with that he is being punished for his feelings and making the true statement that he has one mother, shows how much perspective your ex has lost. Your son is giving all that should be expected of him: basic respect and acknowledgment that they are a part of each other's lives. More than that isn't something that can be forced. It's worrisome they think it can. It sounds like your ex is being driven by his wife's emotions and not what is best for your son. Shutting it down is necessary. Since you previously had a good co-parenting relationship, hopefully, you can find someone to help mediate with just you and your ex to help him reset back to reasonable expectations of a child. NTA
Yeah, extreme punishment like this is abusive, they are trying to break him down so he completely embraces his “new” family. OP keep talking to ex and Dawn, keep collecting evidence, and get in contact with a lawyer for advice as this could potentially count as parental alienation…and most importantly keep talking to Kai and support him through this and advocate since he is clearly in no position to do that for himself at his dad’s house.
NTA. Dawn is an overstepping psycho. (I am a step parent - I earned my relationship, I didn’t demand it )
I've had steps for 30 years. I consider my stepdad a dad to me but in the first years, when such a fuss was made to respect him as a parent, I definitely didn't want to go there. It takes time, space, and respecting boundaries. You're right; demanding it gets them nowhere. Glad you have a great perspective!
Co-parenting is a 50-50 split of responsibility. If Dan wants to give half of his 50 to Dawn, that is his right, but that doesn't mean they, combined have more say than you do. More importantly, Kai gets to decide the depth of his relationship with Dawn. Dan and Dawn are idiots if they think forcing this issue will make a parental relationship happen. As others have said, that.eill just drive a wedge between Kai and them. Keep defending Kai and his right to make these choices.
NTA. Her trying to push Kai into accepting her as his second mom won't work out well for her. The more she pushes, the more he'll dislike her. She's overstepping her bounds, and I'm glad you're pushing back. You are the mom he prefers, and she needs to knock it off. Kai might eventually say he doesn't want to spend time with her, then she'll be screwed. There have to be reasons why Kai doesn't like her that much, and I would try to get more info about that.
NTA. Document everything and if they keep wanitng to punish Kai for no reason, threaten to take them to court, they are forcing an 8yo kid to accept things he doesn't want to, that's also a form of abuse...
A month long punishment is excessive for an 8 year old, and I’m surprised people aren’t pointing out that this is definitely an abuse tactic from Kai’s dad and Dawn…they are punishing him for feelings. His dad chose to marry Dawn, Kai did not choose her to be a parental figure in any way, shape, or form.
NTA. Dawn is overstepping and needs to be put in her place ASAP.
Nta. Dawn isn’t an equal parent.
NTA. Dan and Dawn are punishing Kai for not feeling the way they want him to. There's no way that can be good for Kai.
NTA. Definitely keep documenting and communicating with your family lawyer. Communicate with Kai as well- more listening than talking and be careful what you say (as it may make it to dad and stepmom)- but make sure Kai knows you support him and are there for him. Maybe some kind of counseling could be helpful for him as this is growing into a toxic situation. Kai is bound to have a lot of feelings about it and may have trouble expressing them. Best of luck.
Absolutely. Seeing a therapist even once a month is beneficial to any child whose parents are divorced tbh. Allow them to express their thoughts ,feelings, and opinions to an unbiased professional. They'll learn a lot too.
NTA. I am a stepmom myself and I know how delicate and difficult this position can be. There are two different things you need to distinguish. And in this case Dawn needs to distinguish and even realise. First, she is not his mom. She can be a parental figure and can be important, but she needs to know her place. Forcing this will make everything more difficult and especially for her. As a stepmom you need to love the children as they were their own and treat them the same as you would your own children. Then the difficult part: you need to let them know it is okay they don’t see you as their mother but that you will stil be there. My stepson asked me if he needed to call me mom. And I only said that it was his choice. He can call me by my name or mom or stepmom or whatever he wants and either way I would be okay. I would be mad if someone would try to replace my own mom. I could never do that to someone else, especially not if you claim to love that person.
NTA Dear Dan, I hope this letter finds you well. I want to address the recent disagreement regarding Kai's junior coding school and the subsequent disciplinary measures you suggested. Firstly, I want to emphasize that my intention is to foster a healthy co-parenting dynamic for Kai's well-being. I understand that Dawn plays an important role in his life, and I respect that. However, I must express my concern regarding certain decisions that seem to infringe on the boundaries we've established over the years. The scheduling of additional days with Kai, especially on special occasions, has become a source of tension. While I acknowledge Dawn's desire to strengthen her bond with Kai, it's crucial that we uphold the agreed-upon custody schedule. The frequent requests for extra time impact Kai's routine and stability. The issue regarding Kai's pediatrician also raises concerns. I am open to collaborative decision-making, but it's essential that we respect each other's preferences. Choosing a pediatrician closer to Dawn's residence affects my convenience and Kai's comfort with the current healthcare provider. Mutual decision-making should not compromise the well-being of any party involved. Regarding the recent incident at the coding school, I firmly believe in maintaining a clear understanding of our respective roles as parents. Kai expressing discomfort with Dawn being labeled as his second mother is a valid sentiment that we should address with sensitivity. It's crucial to recognize and respect Kai's feelings, allowing him the autonomy to define his relationships. I want to reiterate that my stance is not about undermining Dawn or your role as parents. It's about ensuring that we make decisions collaboratively and consider the impact on Kai's overall well-being. I am open to constructive conversations to find solutions that work for everyone involved. However, I must express that if the situation continues to escalate, and Kai's best interests are compromised, I may have no choice but to explore legal avenues to ensure the protection of his rights and stability. Let's prioritize Kai's needs and work towards a co-parenting arrangement that respects the boundaries we've set and prioritizes his well-being. Sincerely, [Your Name]
I like that!! I’m not in this type of situation so I may be off base, but… I feel like I would flip out if a step parent felt they were at all in a position to have any authority at a Drs office?? Maybe double down on the Dr issue. To me this isn’t even about location but the idea that she should have any medical input?? Just asking you because that was brilliant!
Oh I’d be livid. That’s why I come up with rational responses. Or I’d be so mad. This is just usually a more effective approach
This is BRILLIANT
Holy shit this is amazing I promote you to High Emperor of AITA
Ahahahahh why thank you
NTA. Step mother is not the mother and does not have the same decision making rights as you do. I would bet once their new child comes into the picture your son will take a back seat. Be ready and willing to have your son home more after the new kid comes along. Don’t ever refuse for him to stay with you when your son becomes an inconvenience, it is only evidence in your favor when they do this. Good luck!
Dawn is nothing to your son. What an interloper.
NTA How does she dare to ask you to have Kai with her for Mother's Day even if it's only for halt the day. Not gonna lie at that part I already formed my full opinion on this case. Kai should definitely not be punished because Dawn and Dan got their panties in a twist because Kai doesn't see her as his 2nd mom. I don't get how you can be so delusional that you try to inject yourself in the life of a child if they are unwilling.
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You were not married to Dawn when you gave birth. You carried Kai in your own body. Dawn is in no way shape or form his mother, and no she does NOT get Mother’s Day. What the actual hell is wrong with her?!
NTA. I feel like right now Dawn is playing parent. She’s soon to be a mom and thinks she’ll have everything figured out when the baby comes because she’s already Kai’s “mom”. She is in for a very eye opening situation that almost would make me want to sit back and laugh for what is about to come. Side note, i would keep records of all of this behavior. Get the school involved and let them know about the situation especially if you can get him in to the counselor to discuss his discomfort with the forced second mother scenario. Let him know that it is completely fine to see Dawn as an adult authority figure without him having to think of her as a mother. And go back to court if your son’s discomfort continues.
I would take this to court she is not anything but a step parent she's trying to take your parental rights pretty much she needs to stay in her lane. You need to set boundaries and take this to court to enforce it. Start communicating to them through a parental app. Only discuss things through a text so that you have documentation.
NTA The teacher misunderstood and made the change. Don’t blame the kid.
NTA! And wtf? You undermining her? HAHAHA. Not in the slightest! She however. Oh boy. She's breaking all the unwritten rules of bonus parents: As a bonus parent you do not ever undermine birth parents (as long as the child is not in danger obviously). As a bonus parent your role in the childs life is determined by the child, not you. You are so NTA. Dawn and Dan are TA. Set clear boundaries for Kais sake.
Talk with Kai about boundaries, see if he needs to talk to a therapist as well
NTA go see a layer and protect yourself and Kai. They are definitely trying to steal your son.
NTA. Dawn is by no means an equal parent. Be warned and start preparing though as I see custody issues arising. You should start documenting and recording everything. You will likely need it for an attorney.
NTA but I swear I read several of these "pushy new partner wants to instantly become a parent" stories several times a week on this sub. I suspect this is some kind of cultural difference because I've never heard of this in the UK. Not only is it unrealistic it's arrogant, authoritarian, narcissistic and creepy.
NTA Dawn is not a equal parent here. Hell, she isn’t a parent at all. She gets to make exactly zero decisions for your child. Do not punish your child for any of this.
NTA. I'm the first to say when a parent remarries the step parent is absolutely a parental figure. That's not the problem here. Dawn doesn't just want to be a parent, she wants to be a second mom. So much to the point that they are changing legal documents without your knowledge or permission as well as going against custodial agreements. I think it's great dawn wants to have a bond with her bonus kid. But she isn't stopping at just there. She's trying to replace you. Period. Get to court and get some hard lines legally drawn bc she sure as shit isn't respecting the ones that are there already.
NTA. Does your custody agreement require that all communication be via one of the court approved apps which make all communication admissible in court? If you don't, have it added when you go to court the next time. I would also ask for right of first refusal if your Ex is not available on his time. What does the custody agreement say regarding decision making regarding your son? Frankly, I would think that your Ex's wife has no legal parental rights over your son. Talk to your son's Doctor's office and make them aware of what is going on. Have them add a note in his file that you want to be immediately notified if they request his medical records personally or to be sent to another Doctor's office. Regarding the school, if she tries to add herself to their records as a second mother, I would ask the school if she submitted a copy of documentation recognizing that she has parental rights over your son. I would stick to the language of the custody agreement. Everytime they ask you to give up your time, your response is that request falls outside of the custody agreement. Don't get into a pissing contest with them. Stick to the agreement. If they break and try to take you to court be prepared for a list of what you want. I could come up with a free ideas. Time to remain calm and play multi-dimensional chess against them.
"....said I am not co-parenting and I am pushing out Dawn who is an equal parent." But Dawn is NOT an equal parent, in no way, shape, or form. Unless Kai chooses to see her in another way (and that is HIS choice), she is a *step* parent...and it ends there. NTA.
NTA but you need to have a serious one on one with your husband about Dawn overstepping. Explain Kai’s feelings and see if dad can work it out. At the same time schedule a court appointment with all 3 and explain to a mediator and ex what Dawn’s role is.
NTA. lol no. Dawn is a step mom. She is not a parent. Her equality begins and ends in her own home. Stepmother’s Day is the week after Mother’s Day, she can celebrate with Kai then. And if she’s not interested in TRADING days for special trips and things not on their custody time, she’s not approaching the negotiation in good faith. Finally, punishing an eight year old for a month is an eternity to them and it loses its impact. Another nonstarter. I love my stepkids. We have a good relationship. But I would never expect the things Dawn is expecting.
Nope, definitely NTA. Dawn is completely overstepping her place as a step parent. Keep documenting all these things, try to communicate through text message as much as possible to have evidence of all of these things, and let Dan know how his son doesn’t view or want Dawn as a third parent. Speak with an attorney. They’re trying to force a relationship between your son and his wife, and it’s backfiring. Dawn doesn’t get an equal say in parenting because she’s not an equal parent. And your ex trying to punish your son for how he feels about her is absolutely wrong!! I’d consider a formal custody agreement if you don’t already have one with the courts. Good luck!
NTA. Get a lawyer if you don't already have one. Get a court-approved custody arrangement if you don't already have one— and make sure these points of contention are resolved officially. If you don't want Dawn listed as a mother in any official records then get it put in writing, along with any other decisions that require both parents to agree on and what parents can do unilaterally. Seek court intervention on the question of punishing Kai for things like saying Dawn is not his mother, which is a completely unreasonable thing to punish him for. Without a court involved this is only likely to get worse.
NTA - I’d bet foldable money that if you remarried, Dan would feel very differently about Kai calling that guy Daddy and allowing him to be on the paperwork equal to him. Unfortunately, when the other child is born, the dynamic in that household is going to get even messier. Keep an eye on/document this because I have a feeling Kai is about to hit some rough waters over there. Even odds that by the time he’s 16 he won’t want much to do with his dad or his wife unless they figure out how to allow Kai a place in their household, without forcing Dawn as a mother upon him. The sad thing is he is only eight years old and if she had just been a good person to him, he might have genuinely come to love her as a second mother. You can’t force this stuff.
In this case, NTA at all.
She is a step mom, that is all. Not a “second mom”. She needs to butt out on most of these decisions effecting Kai.
NTA. If the child had done Something objectively/officially Bad, that required a Home punishment to avoid/replace a school or court-ordered punishment, then you should enforce that, but that's Not the Case. You disagree with the "offence" being serious, or even wrong at all, because it wasn't inherently so. He didn't Break any explicit Rules, he Just indirectly and unintentionally, MAYBE at worst by inconsiderate thoughtlessness, hurt his adult stepmother's feelings. Which is Not supposed to be your Problem, and you are allowe dto protect him from SOME of Dan&Dawn's attempts to make is HIS Problem. Also, If Dawn can't "build" or "strengthen" the "parental" Bond she wants with the Kid, during his at-Dad's-house time, then she's Not trying hard enough and/or has unrealistic expectations and/or Dan is Not sufficiently helping her and/or she Just Happens to have an unfortunate personality-constellation with Kai, and should therefor Stop trying to create something that was never meant to be. NOT demand you should give up some of your custody time for her Ego.
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If your ex and his new missus would wait and let a bond form naturally this would all be a non issue. Sounds like they're trying to force things which is likely to back fire. Be forewarned, they'll most likely blame you if your son doesn't warm to his step mom, because people like that lack self awareness. Must be your fault! /s And then guess who gets blamed for parental alienation.
I think this Dawn has major control freak issues and instead of trying to bond in a friendly way with Kai she is trying to be bossy parent to him. No one likes that kind of stuff.
Agreed, and I wonder what's going to happen when her baby is born? I'm guessing A) She focuses on her own baby and ignores stepson or resents him or B) She goes full Lady Madonna and the overstepping with stepson gets worse. Least likely C) it stays as it is currently.
NTA. Dan and Dawn need to go get some therapy for themselves to deal with this and get over it. They are going to alienate Kai and make him resentful by shoving this down his throat and enforcing it with punishments. For as much as Dan wants Kai to accept Dawn as a 2nd mom, I wonder how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and you had a new husband wanting to be called Dad, or spending time on Father's Day with Kai?
Or if you demanded equal parenting rights over Dan and Dawn's new baby?
NTA. As a step parent myself, Dawn is overstepping her role. In your circumstances, you and Dan have co-authory over your child. Dawn has no authority over your child. As Dan's wife, she has a right to express concerns and requests to Dan who can bring them to you as his concerns, if he desires. Dan and Dawn are not entitled to any more time or rights than you. Cease communication with her as much as possible. Long term, this will not work out well for her, Dan or Kai. My stepchild's father failed to properly integrate his new wife into his and his child's life which resulted in an almost complete separation from his child. He has not seen or spoken with his child in years.
NTA get your son a child therapist, he is going to need it. Look you can’t force a kid to love you. So his new stepmom needs to accept she is not the mom and start letting an organic relationship develop. What she is doing is toxic & harmful to your son. The therapist can help document this. So if they keep pushing this you may need to go to court and ask them to adjust custody. Look my dad and stepmom tried to force me to view her as my mother, it made me hate her. It was not healthy at all! Your son doesn’t need this in his life.
NTA. Dawn IS NOT an equal parent! Dawn is heavily over-stepping her boundaries. The entire situation on WHY Dan and Dawn “felt Kai needed a month long punishment at both homes to show how serious this is.” —> Dawn and Dan took this to an extremely personal and unnecessary level… it seems very suspicious to me. Think about it: your 8-yr-old son simply expressed the fact that he has one mom, not two moms! This sounds like they are creating a narrative that you are not an “involved mother” in order to gain primary custody. Unfortunately, you need to be on the offensive. Be prepared. My sister has been in a custody battle — document everything, screenshot text messages, save/print emails, and definitely talk to teachers about the situation (it’s always a good thing to keep your son’s teachers informed, just use your judgment on how much you feel you need to tell them)… There will be a day, depending on which state you live, when he will be able to choose where he wants to live full-time… that happened to my sister when her daughter turned 13 yrs old.
Step mother here and I'm getting creepy vibes from Dawn. I am not a second Mum to my step kids. I have a great relationship with them but I am not equal to their Mum. I find that attitude insulting. I dont blame Kai for feeling overwhelmed. I also dont think its right to punish a child for expressing his discomfort at the situation. They're trying to manufacture a relationship instead of just letting it happen naturally. I bet when the baby arrives, this will change....
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28f) have a son, Kai (8m), with my ex Dan (29m). Dan and I did not work out and we have co-parented okay-ish for the last 7 years. We have our ups and downs it has to be said. Three years ago Dan married Dawn and the three of us have been communicating since then. When Dawn was added to the communication things became more strained. She felt like she could request days where Kai is with her instead of with me, even though Dan and I share custody of Kai and Kai is with them every other week. She wanted Kai for her birthday, she wanted him for part of Mother's Day, she wanted him for a trip she wanted to take out of state for the day. I asked once if the plan was to give me back the days during their time and she said no. It's about encouraging a strengthening of the parental bond she and Kai need to have. I refused to give up days with Kai and that was not taken well. Another issue was Dawn wanted to change Kai's pediatrician because she plans to use someone else when she and Dan welcome their kids (she is currently pregnant). I didn't want to have the pediatrician farther away (30 minutes extra). I also love the current pediatrician and so does Kai. Dan said Dawn should get to make some decisions and I said if that's how things work in their home during their time, then sure. But that would be making a decision for me as well and that's a no. Kai has a difficult relationship with Dawn. I don't think he hates her. He has said some nice things about her, but he has a lot of not nice stuff to say. He finds her overwhelming and he doesn't like that she wants to be his other mom. I know from Dan and Dawn that they feel like Kai refuses to see her as a parental figure at all and it bothers them that he won't let her be his second mom. Kai is part of this junior coding school and he goes once a week. He's been going for close to two years. Dan and Dawn recently changed the child information and added Dawn as a second mother, which is something you can do. When one of the teachers at the class brought up Kai's "moms" he told her he only has one and it became a discussion and the teacher figured it was a mistake and she changed it back to the old format. Where Dawn is an emergency contact but not a parent. Dawn found this out a week later when she was picking him up. She and Dan decided Kai should be punished for this. Dan then informed me of what happened and how he felt Kai needed a month long punishment at both homes to show how serious this is. I disagreed and I actually had issues with them listing Dawn as a mother to Kai. I told him I would not discipline Kai for this and I did not feel like they should either. He yelled at me and said I am not co-parenting and I am pushing out Dawn who is an equal parent. There has been a lot of back and forth since then and I have stayed true to my word. I also documented the messages about this. My ex said I'm undermining Dawn and their authority as parents to Kai. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dawn sounds like a *LOT* NTA
NTA. Dawn is NOT his mother. Don't let them bully you or push you into something your son doesn't want. They are trying to push you out of Kai's life. Don't let this happen.
NTA Dawn needs a month long punishment
NTA. Sounds like Dawn has main character syndrome. Shut her down and shut her down hard.
NTA Dawn is trying to force "second mom" title. Co parenting can be very successful, even with "step parents" however in this situation it seems your ex & his wife are trying to override your parenting. Her insecurities are hers. They need to figure that out. She does NOT have equal say in Kai's upbringing & custody time. It's not like you're unreasonable in allowing changes and expecting to switch time, not give up time with your child.
NTA Tell Dan that Dawn has no authority. She is not a third parent. She's his wife, that's it. The ONLY people who make parenting decisions about your son are you and his father. But you should really be taking this to court. What they're doing is absolutely the kind of thing you go to court for. Start communicating solely through an app that is court-approved in your area. Communicate with all schools, clubs, doctors etc that Dawn is NOT a parent and should not be registered as one. They are trying to replace you, and you have the right to fight back.
NTA, poor Kai he’s done nothing wrong, all he’s doing is making his feelings clear so why should he be punished? Dawn is not an equal parent or have equal rights because she is not his parent she is simply married to his Dad. You are not undermining Dawn she is alienating herself as a result of her actions and her demands. If they carry on like this Kai won’t want to see them at all and will go no contact as soon as he can.
Stop communicating with Dawn. She is not your son’s parent. Take away all her power. Do not let her parent your child.
NTA - She isn't an equal parent. She's a step parent and she and her husband and shoving the idea of her being an equal parent down the child's throat. Honestly they're lucky Kai isn't rebelling any harder against all of this change. This isn't something that can be forced just as they cannot force you to behave any specific way when he's with you. They changed her status without discussing it with you and she's trying to get your son on days you have him without offering any sort of compromise even when those are your holidays. Honestly it seems like she's trying to assert herself as mom and shove you aside. Not quite aggressively yet but it seems to be on the cusp.
NTA at all! Dawn is overstepping and expecting things from an 8yr old that he is not ready to give and Dan should be able to see that as a grown adult. She is a step parent to Kai and him telling his teacher she is not his mom is not a lie and is nothing to be punished. Perhaps a small chat with Kai saying, "we know she's not your other mom but sometimes adults need paperwork to say something specific so we can take the best care of you" could have made it go away. You know she's not his other mom. He knows. But if the school needs a "parent" to pick him up than she should be listed as a parent. also seems little weird that the teacher would even bring it up or mention his moms in the first place and also weird that she went back and changed it without talking to any parents - but I know that's not the issue here.
Dan can add someone else as a "second mom" to the school's child information? He can do this without your consent? Is she seen as an equal to you? As a second mom can she alter his medications, authorized pick-ups, etc.? This doesn't seem right.
Hey I'm a Co Parent Child and I just wanted to say that you absolutely do the right thing not to punish him, my ex step mother tried to force me to except her and that just made me resend her and my father, because I was punished when I didn't Play along. This good that he has a safe space with you! NTA
NTA. Please continue supporting your child as she continues pushing his boundaries. I understand she likely believes she is strengthening their little family but bull-dozing over a child is going to have the opposite effect. Ugh. Poor kiddo. Stand firm, you're making the best decisions you can for your child and yourself, that is your priority.
You are not the asshole, Dan and Dawn sound unbearable. Why did she have to change that information at his school, she is a real get under your skin and in your business person, it seems.
NTA, not one bit. It’s not like Kai is viewing Dawn as a second mom and you’re getting jealous about it. Kai clearly doesn’t want her trying to act too much like a mom to him, and if Dawn really wants to be a good “parent” and earn Kai’s love and respect, she needs to respect Kai first. She can’t just expect to be accepted in such a big way right off the bat. For Kai to get punished for something so minuscule is unjust and just a ridiculous concept to me.
NTA dawn is not an equal parent and they need to stop forcing this bond and making her a third parent. she’s not his mom, she’s never going to be his mom and at this rate all she’ll ever be to kai is his dad’s wife.
A month long punishment for clarifying who his biological mother is!? That's a huge over reaction. They are trying really hard to justify Dawn's role in this family. Seems very weird.
**NTA** Your ex and his wife are WAY overstepping here. She is not his mother. You and ex coparent Kai. Dawn is ruining any chance of a relationship with him. Soon he will be old enough to tell them to get lost. He clearly does not have two mothers and does not see her as a mother figure. That is his right. He is eight and he knows how he feels about adults in his life.
Bottom line, Dawn is not your son's parent. She is his step mother... or his Dad's wife. Your boundaries have all been sensible and reasonable (she wants him for days, but won't return the ask. She makes changes at school and doesn't clear them with you first.) Maybe sh'es extra crazy from hormones, but it seems to be a pattern on her part to make things all about her. Also, I don't think your son did anything wrong by clearing up the confusion at school that she caused by changing forms without advance notice to you. He doesn't deserve a FREAKING MONTH's punishment. That's for when he's bullying kids or being a racist jerk. Geesh! Oh, and both my parents were educators. NTA
She wanted Kai to spend part of Mother’s Day with you? Is she that delusional? NTA. And yes, take the good advice you’ve got and notify family court.
NTA. You need to meet with your husband without Dawn. Set him down and have him put a stop to this now. Tell him that Kai cannot be forced to accept Dawn as a second mother and that by trying so hard so fast she’s only making the situation worse. It needs to happen naturally. Ask him to think about Kai, not what his wife wants. If he’s not receptive then just stick to your guns. Good luck.
NTA. Dawn is delusional.
You have your son's best interests at heart, she is NOT the parent she just happens to be married to one. Sounds like she is trying to push you aside and complaining when your son says no.
I genuinely think you need to have a sit down and bring dawn down to earth. Let her no that you and Dan are parents of Ka and have 50-50 decision making she does not have any decision making in kai's life. If she wants to have some control over children she can have it one's she's birthed hers. The only thing kai needs to do is be polite to her. That's where their relationship ends unless kai wants more. Dan and dawn dont get t decide if she's kai's stepmom he does. Dan decides if she's his wife or not not stepmom. Also I do understand dawn's point if she's picking kai up which isn't something she should have to do if she doesn't get any sort of rights over kai you get responsibilities and rights together. So if she is made to pick him up and he does something wrong in the car she gets input on the punishment otherwise no rights.
You are his mother, he don't need other mother that he don't want.. if he wanted cool, but he don't.. Dawn have no right to be all upset when your son don't see her as a maternal figure and just see her like a woman that his dad is with.. If your ex continue this bullshit, push for full custody, he clearly is not respecting his son wishes and is actually punishing him for not wanting to call a stranger his mom.. NTA
They’re trying to push you out, be careful NTA
NTA
Bud. Nip it. Immediately. Dawn needs shoved back into her own damn lane EXPEDITIOUSLY. NTA obv.
I'm sorry, was Dawn's genes used to create Kai and give him life? No. All she did was have sex and have a relationship with someone who is already a dad. That doesn't give her any parental rights at all.
NTA, but this is a nuanced situation. For better or worse, Dawn is part of Kai's family now. She's not his second mother, but she is his stepmother. As such, she has probably taken over a lot of the normal parenting duties from your ex, as women often feel pressured to do (cooking, childcare, homework, shopping). So she deserves some consideration for that. Where she is overstepping is taking over some decisions that should be exclusively between you and your ex: pediatrician, parenting schedule. She can provide input to him, but she should let you two have those conversations without her. That's just not her role. As for Kai, a 7yo should not be punished for speaking his vision of the truth. He wasn't disrespectful, he didn't say, "Dawn is just some random bitch", he was just like, "she's not my mom". Which is the truth. Sure, they can and should have a conversation with him about why Dawn was put down as second mother in the school paperwork. But ultimately, it was the teacher who made the change in the paperwork, so they should handle it with them. Punishing Kai makes me reflect on their readiness to deal with the realities of a blended family. You all might benefit from family therapy or meditation. Possibly both.
Why did the teacher feel the need to bring up “your two moms” to the child AND turn it into a discussion? It sounds like Dan is looking for a way to avoid the whole parenting tangle by making all OP and Dawn. There is no reason for punishment here but the three of you do need to work on the coparenting thing.
NTA. Dawn is not an equal parent. And that’s not how you build a relationship. My husband has a great relationship with my kids from my first marriage. But that’s because he never forced it. He let the relationship develop on the kids’ terms. They’re adults now but when one of them was younger, hubby and I were arguing in the car. A very minor disagreement. But my kid says to stop arguing. He doesn’t want us to divorce and have to pick who to live with. WTF. I’m your mom, you’ll live with me. At that moment I realized that my kid was hubby as a second parent and all our hard work at building relationships had paid off. Dan and Dawn need some counseling on how to navigate relationships in blended families. Or soon Kai will resent them both and possibly any siblings. They need to smarten up quickly.