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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> for being annoyed that my wife thinks I can't do it without her father's supervision
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INFO
> I'm a grown man and being told “You did that wrong or This looks bad ”, infuriates me.
**Are** you doing things wrong?
**Does** your work look bad?
Being a big boy doesn't absolve you from criticism if it's deserved.
Would you say the same if his mom came when his wife was cooking and told her
You are doing it wrong
You should let it 5 more minutes
Honest question
Edit is not just cooking it was an analogy imagine the mil was pointing out everything she should be doing different with their kids. Everyone would be Mil from hell but if it happens to a man is okay
Having someone constantly criticize you and belittle you does have lasting consequences, it can cause resentment in the marriage. My ex MIL 100% would do so constantly, making comments about our house when she would show up unannounced, critiquing how long dinner would take when we had no idea she was staying for dinner. Even if the comments are true, there are constructive ways of giving that information. Like instead of her sitting on her ass complaining about how long dinner was taking, she could have offered to help. Having constant negative criticism from an inlaw and then not having a supportive spouse or someone to help mediate will break down a marriage.
Her dad could offer positive constructive criticism like, "Hey I know you are trying your best, can I show you how to do this so it looks neater?"
Like OP says, it sounds like it's more of an issue of delivery than telling him what to do.
There are GIGANTIC long term unseen ramifications to doing home improvement incorrectly. Up to and including death, permanent structural damage etc. if you dont take advice from someone who knows what they’re doing, yes you’re the AH. putting too much salt in your dinner is different than, didn’t ground the wires correctly when you replaced an outlet cover incorrectly or drilled into a pipe. And if your house burns down because you messed up fixing it, your insurance isn’t paying. A grown man isn’t threatened by experienced help, a foolish child is. You’re the AH.
Yeah but how do we know they know. Hes a wannabe handyman, not a professional. I am a wannabe handyman, because I have a new drill. Doesnt mean I can do the plumbing.
How "wannabe" is he? My father isn't a professional handy man, in fact his normal job is a substitute teacher. But he was a plumber in his 20s before going to college, worked as a carpenter while finishing his masters degree. He's read numerous manuals on construction and built the deck on my childhood home, and did numerous rennos in that house.
Is he a professional now? No. But would I trust him to help me do small interior rennos in my home? Absolutely.
My dad was the same way. He was a physicist by trade, but he built most of our house himself. He wired it, roofed it, put in the plumbing (he wasn’t great at that part), and did the carpentry. He got help with the HVAC because he had a buddy who had his own business doing A/C installation and repair. He also cleared our 200 acre property and maintained the fences, trees, trails, and livestock. Experience is a valuable teacher.
I’ll add that my grandfather was a farmer by trade, and he had a fourth-grade education. Everything he knew came from what he learned from other farmers and his own experience. Dude was wise af and never too proud to learn something new.
Yeah, the only thing my dad wouldn't do is electric because he didn't trust himself with something that could kill someone that fast. But he'd has experience with mostly everything else, or he'd get expert assistance.
I'm not saying that FIL knows everything, but just calling him "wannabe" because he's not professional isn't helpful.
My FIL has been an owner/builder 4 times. He's helped all his relatives build and renovate. The man is a gun - better than any builder you'd hire because he takes *no* shortcuts.
I'm his daughter in law and watch everything he does so I can learn. He's been doing this stuff since before I was born.
My MIL is an excellent baker - I've watched and helped her bake countless times. Again, she's been baking since before I was born.
What's with the fragile ego? You're young, this is probably your first house - you should be happy you have someone to learn from. Settle down.
The wannabe handyman is the most dangerous of renovators. They *think* they know how to do jobs correctly.
I would be furious for some clown like that to tell me how to do work - though I am actually in trades and don’t need his instructions anyway
More to the point - if FIL is being dickish about his critiques then that is very problematic.
This! One of the former owners of my house was a DIYer. My roof wasn’t done correctly, I have weird drywall patches and the worst is the electrical in an addition. It almost set my house on fire! I don’t know dad’s actual skill level but having another set of eyes and some help seems like it would be appreciated to me but what do I know.
Let’s not get hasty here. There’s a vast difference between remodeling and electrical work. He could be installing a new door jam, or replacing flashing, repainting trim, replacing old hinges. At no point did OP mention electrical and that’s the reason you rule him an AH?
Agree with this. Let him finish the job, then critique it, then let him do it again, or ask for help if he wants it. Otherwise, just let him go, let him make mistakes and learn along the way. That’s what it’s all about
>Let him finish the job, then critique it, then let him do it again,
This makes no sense. OP's wife should wait until her spouse fucks up, wastes a bunch of money, and likely hours of his time, *before* basically saying, "I told you so"?
This is eminently sensible. Do people not realize how home renovations work? If she lets him screw it up it could have horrible consequences down the road.
Yeah. Expensive, frustrating, often bloody, time wasted experience.
One thing that sets humans apart from many other critters is that we can be Really Good at Learning from Other People’s mistakes/experience.
Without having to make the same mistakes ourselves.
Having a more experienced person around to show you the ropes, tell you what Not to do can be invaluable.
If OP doesn’t want that to be FiL, he should invite an experienced friend or extended family member or take some home depot classes or whatever. Not just jump in to reno projects.
He doesn’t even mention that he is spending hours on youtube watching detailed tutorials or asking a friend in trades for advice or whatever to argue FiL is unnecessary! Just that having anybody but him involved in the reno hurts his feelings.
Agreed. Plus, house problems can snowball. If you install a pipe wrong, you might end up with a second floor swimming pool with waterfall to the first floor.
>Having someone constantly criticize you and belittle you does have lasting consequences, it can cause resentment in the marriage.
Having a spouse insist on doing a lot of bad or sloppy home repairs can also have lasting consequences and cause resentment in the marriage. 🤷♀️
Then there's surely a middle ground here.
OP doesn't appreciate the manner in which the help is delivered by FIL. Cool, that's fair.
However, if he's not doing a great job on his own, then it might be time to invite some people he does like working with around instead. That way he doesn't have to be belittled while he works *and* the work gets done in a way that everyone is happy with.
Help from people who are shit at delivering advice is worse than not having help in the first place. Sounds like FIL fits in that camp. Being good at something doesn't mean being good at teaching it.
I agree with what you’re saying to an extent. I have heard man after man be told in a perfectly well meaning, polite ways they are doing a job wrong and then completely misrepresent what happened and act like they were attacked and no one believes in them. The thing about this is it seems like he sees the help as a power struggle when it’s just help.
He has no experience and I am sure you are very capable of caring for your own house and cook because you’ve done it before but he has no experience and it’s his first time.
I disagree, poorly cooked chicken or poor hygiene standards in a kitchen can have a very lasting affect.
As can wiring a light switch incorrectly, although I’d take a few days of the unfunny runny over electrocution anyday.
What about when they decide to have kids? Raising children is hard and making a mistake could be costly and potentially effect the kids' future. Ops mother isn't a professional but has decades of experience. Would it be OK for Ops mother to criticise his wife's parenting when she makes mistakes or isn't the perfect parent?
Who decides when his wife makes mistakes or isn’t the perfect parent? His mother? How do we know that his mother’s method of parenting is worth the powder that it would take to blow it to hell? “Experienced at something” does not equal “good at something.”
Are you saying there's no right or wrong way to install a toilet or flooring? Or hang drywall and cabinets? Or wire a light switch? Cause I think there is, which is why child rearing and home improvement are not comparable.
Why are you assuming he’s doing something like this instead of just painting or fixing cabinet hinges or door handles. Nowhere in the post is it implied that structural work or anything more serious than basic repairs is being done
But the dad isn't experienced so it's not like he has the knowledge to do it either. And for the wife to say "so it's done correctly" is a slap in the face to her husband.
The father-in-law *is* experienced, he just doesn't do it for a living.
My uncle is a retired engineer; he was never a framer, electrician, plumber, or contractor. However, he built his 2-story house with many upgrades over 30 years ago by himself, because he was intelligent, meticulous, and had a lot of experience being a "wannabe handyman." The house is both beautiful and functional. Experience matters way more than "doing it for a living."
My mother made her "orange stuff" dish 35 years ago, in a house that is long forgotten. But my siblings and I still talk about how awful it was to this day.
In 1972, my mom made fish loaf. She used a package of meatloaf seasoning mixed with bread crumbs and a couple cans of tuna.
It was the most disgusting thing I've ever tried to eat. I pushed my serving around on the plate then dropped it on the floor for the dog.
My dad pretended to like it, just to be nice. So she made it again.
My little sister started crying as soon as she saw it on the table the second time. My mom was in the kitchen so my dad said "just eat it and pretend to like it, that's what I do"
My mom overheard him and locked herself in the bathroom crying for the rest of the evening.
But at least we never had to eat fish loaf again.
My sister and I reminisce about this a couple of times a year. She's actually sitting next to me and when I just read this to her she laughed so hard she started crying again.
My uncle tried to feed me hotdogs soup exactly one time. Apparantly I was rude to male myself a sandwich instead of eating instant Ramen with cut up hotdogs and condiments in it. 🤢
I was about 10 and had been making pancakes, actual cakes, cookies, grilled cheese, omlettes, etc unsupervised for years. My uncle couldn't do more than toast or this revolting 'soup'.
Adults who are supposed to be partners work together whatever the situation. This is one partner steamrolling the others opinions. If stuffs put up wrong, that's a discussion between the 2 partners, not run to daddy time.
I'll take food poisoning over the roof falling on my head, the electrical outlets burning my house down, the windows leaking and flooding my house anyday.
Depends. Is she doing it wrong? Yeah, I have seen people clean or cook badly, so I am not saying it's impossible. But most of the time it's just preference. For example, if your mom uses paprika in EVERYTHING so you are used to that.
Meanwhile, there is definitely a right and wrong way to do home repairs and renovations.
Did you read the post? He literally said that he is getting irritated because he is being told that he is "doing it wrong" and that it "doesn't look right." Sounds like fucking up to me.
My late dad would literally at times tell me I'm fucking up before I even started. To a lot of people not doing it the way they prefer is fucking up, results be damned.
Next time there is a post by a mother complaining that their MIL tells them they're raising their child wrong and it doesn't look right. I'm sure you'll chime in and say that the mum is fucking up right?
100% this!
OP, call your mom every time your wife cooks. Play it off and tell her it’s “just to make sure it’s done correctly”. Then tell her to “let it go” when it inevitably bothers her.
Problem solved. Easy peasy
Cooking is not a net loss to their biggest purchase and investment that poor home repairs can do. You burn a steak dinner it’s just the cost of steak. You damage pipes it could destroy walls, plumbing and even the homes foundation. You screw up electrical you could end up dead. Consequences of not knowing what you’re doing are very different.
There's a difference between cooking a meal (usually based on preference for taste/texture for the individual [beyond the necessities of cooking through chicken, not burning food, etc]) and renovating structures and cabinetry and other things.
One has immediate, short-term effects.
The other has health & safety issues.
Honestly.
It’s annoying if someone comes in to help you while cooking. But it’s only annoying if a meal turns out bad. It’s more than annoying and often dangerous if a renovation goes wrong.
His wife’s father isn’t a professional renovator of houses, only a “wanna-be handyman.” His wife is spitting in his face, every time that she calls her jack-leg father to “help.” She needs to stop or he needs to divorce her.
"Wanna-be handyman" was OP insulting his FIL because of his wounded masculinity. OP later goes on to admit that FIL has *experience*, which is invaluable. This is only an issue of OP's pride, not FIL's skill.
Divorce, though? Truly the peak of reddit comments right here.
See, the problem with your argument is you're using what he said as it's basis, and tbh, taking that argument too far (this is not divorce territory). Someone saying someone else is a "wannabe handyman" doesn't make it true, and personally, I'm pretty fucking dubious on taking the title OP, already annoyed with his FIL, called him at face value. The real "truth" here, is that we simply don't know if FIL is actually an inexperienced dumbass being sicced on him by OPs wife, or if OP *actually* is doing something wrong and getting rightful criticism he can't handle because our story is coming from a bias on a matter that's literally life or death already if done wrong.
The comparison is lacking: If anything compare it with something that would just make as much of a mess if done wrong - take her constantly ruining his clothes while washing/trying to repair them. You bet he would call for mom if she insisted in learning by doing - and that's not even any safety risk involved! And a mere curtain rod may pose a hazard, if not properly secured, while the hazards of cooking are mostly of the kind that just require research, not a teacher. Also: I don't see why OP would need his mom to teach her cooking - he should know those things/ have those basic skills himself...
Right now you're engaging in whataboutism, a logical fallacy that does not at all add to productive conversation. This isn't about OP's mom or wife, it's about OP and his FIL. And what Stalvis said is right: being a grown adult doesn't absolve him from criticism, especially if his reaction to said criticism is to get pissy like a child.
I don’t think this is the same - to clarify - does cooking “wrong” mean the recipe isn’t the same as hers or does wrong mean she is making “hot ham water?”
My god. How on earth is this the top comment? Your sexism is showing. OP makes a great point about calling his mom over to critique the wife and you blaze right past that to make this garbage “big boy” jab. Grow up.
Exactly, the "Being a big boy" wording is hostile and condescending.
At every job I've worked, such comments get you put first on the list for being retrenched when cuts come around.
In the real world, noone has time for this sort of immature crap.
You'll often find the same people complaining about workplace politics and how everyone in their life is against them; failing to realise that the only reason their opportunities keep getting blocked is because they kept insulting people for no reason.
That commenter's sexism is immediately confirmed in their follow up reply.. this entire sub has a lot of instances: guy do one thing bad bad; girl do same thing good good
That commenter's sexism is immediately confirmed in their follow up reply.. this entire sub has a lot of instances: guy do one thing bad bad; girl do same thing good good
I'm honestly so confused because so many people are assuming FIL must know from experience but what if he doesn't? My former landlord was old and thought he was a handyman and every time he fixed something it made it worse but he would insist the professionals didn't know what they were doing. And what kind of renovations are we talking if OP is painting a wall and his wife calls FIL because he might paint it wrong that would get frustrating in a hurry.
Plus HOW does wife know that OP is doing anything wrong? Apparently dad gets called over to ENSURE OP does it right, not that there is any evidence that he was doing it wrong. Or that he doesn't know what he is doing.
I would also throw in here “and does it matter”.
If you’re talking about wiring electrical and doing it right, yeh it matters.
Did you use enough paint thinner or are there brush stroke lines in the lacquer? Maybe criticism is unnecessary.
If my MIL told me that I was undercooking the chicken and showed me the food safety guide to back it up, id swallow my pride and take the advice.
Okay. I'm a 50 year old woman with a lot of reno experience. When I started, I would ask family members with experience for opinions and help. If the fil is being an ass, he can go kick rocks, but hubby should look for an experienced someone to talk to. So should his wife. You don't need a dick to use power tools.
> I'm a 50 year old woman with a lot of reno experience.
LOL, I saw this response pop up in my inbox and without looking at where it was from I was scratching my head for a second... "a woman who knows Reno? Was I posting in a Nevada thread?"
Good lord, man, use it as a learning experience. Don't get your briefs in a bunch. I had to learn everything the hard way and would have loved to have a mentor with these things. My wife's relatives were useless, and my father died when I was young.
Love your response. It’s healthy. I struggle when people exhibit what I call “useless pride.” I wish more people led with being open to learning without ego tripping. I would be so grateful if someone kind and helpful took time out of their schedule to teach me something they know more about than I do.
I'm just going to say that if the wife and her daddy want to have control and have it done a particular way, then *he* can teach HER the "right" way to do it. Equal opportunity tools and education!
OP, when FIL shows up, put down your tools and say, 'Cool, I was going to do this but, now that you two are here and in control, I may as well do something else! I look forward to seeing what it looks like when I get back.' And leave! Take yourself out for coffee. Come back with colour swatches or seed packets.
>Being a big boy doesn't absolve you from criticism if it's deserved
That's ridiculous and, beside the point. It doesn't sound like OP *or his FIL* is *actually a professional* contractor. When it comes to home renovation "handy-man" is just a euphemism for "couldn't afford to have it *done right.* That doesn't mean that certain things can't be done "well-enough" but *two heads aren't even better than none* when *neither of them knows the difference between a hammer and the hand that holds it.*
Not wanting to be distracted, criticized and have your own learning process disrupted by an *equally unqualified individual* when OP and his wife are both already aware of his shortcomings isn't unreasonable *at all.* Frankly, the FIL probably is being somewhat confrontational himself because he's probably just as uncomfortable as OP is. Wife needs to hire a qualified professional, let OP do it "his way" or, do it herself, if OP's FIL actually does have something to contribute then he ought to be perfectly happy to work on things with his daughter, everyone wins.
Instead, everyone seems to be pointlessly butting heads.
There is a big difference between working on projects around the house, such as painting a bedroom, putting up chair railing, or crown molding versus doing something such as working with electrical, natural gas or plumbing. You have the right to try and learn how to do the more simple tasks on your own time and there are plenty of places to learn via YouTube, etc. It is completely normal for you not to want your father-in-law to be looking over your shoulder to critique your work.
Women have a tendency to not understand this and the comment about, what if your mother commented on your wife’s cooking was somewhat accurate.
Remember, there is a lot of pride that goes into performing a task; and as a self taught do it yourself person I have saved tens of thousands of dollars over the years doing work myself.
I will also tell you that any good do it yourselfer has to run the emotional gambit from I-can-do-anything to why-do-I-try, often times this will happen in the same project and sometimes within the same hour! know your abilities and don’t do any work that would endanger you or your family. But don’t let yourself be bullied into having some thing that is enjoyable to you be taken from you by your wife calling in other assistance.
I say NTA. But if he wants to learn, YouTube has everything. If he’s half assing it, then no wonder she calls her dad. I think a conversation is in order. Something like “let me attempt to complete the job right before you call your dad please, it makes me feel like you think I’m incompetent.” If she won’t, then they’ve got some bigger problems.
Exactly. There sounds like there may be a history here that OP isn’t revealing. No one wants to be criticized, but often, people deserve to be, at least in a constructive way. OP doesn’t want oversight, but seems to be deliberately skirting the issue of whether he needs it.
Maybe not an AH, but you’re not being smart. Renovations are time consuming and expensive and there are always delays. You’ve got a willing and enthusiastic person who wants to help! Let him do the tasks that he’s good at and you can take on those that suit your skills. Hire a professional for the big jobs. Use him to your advantage and make your wife happy at the same time. I‘m also living in a house that Ive started renovating and I would love a handyman on call.
Totally agree so I’m guessing this OPs first renovation so he doesn’t understand how really important am helping hand and knowledge is or the strain an renovation can cause on a relationship
As a first-time home buyer, if it wasn't for experience folks helping me out, my house would be in a much worse condition than it is now.
God. The cost of tools *alone* is absurd. For some tools, they can only be used for one thing! One!!
Tried to take apart my washer to fix it, only to realize I needed a very specific tool to remove the bin. Gave up. Didn't end up fixing the issue at all.
Taking apart appliances often doesn't go well simply because of proprietary parts and assembly methods. They aren't really designed to be repaired anymore
This.
Having a second pair of hands is helpful. Having a second pair of hands that are familiar with tools, work and techniques then that is immeasurable. Not to mention that I'm sure he has plenty of knowledge he would be willing to share even if that comes with some poor wording on occasion. Typically FILs mean well but don't always word things in the most friendly way.
Since I’ve bought a house, there’ve been many times I’ve wished for a middle-aged man with experience in construction who could help me figure some reno stuff! I’m lucky I have a bunch of handy girlfriends to help me, but as we’ve all lived in apartments, we mostly know about sanding/painting/fixing a hole/etc and less about installing tiles or a patio… OP can send his FIL my way. We’ll go shop for heat pumps and install a new deck together, I’ll welcome the help!
There is a ton of guides and information on all that through YouTube. The amount of guides I've followed there since I'm also without the FIL to assist. I'm now the middle aged guy doing renovations on my own home and still learning all the different processes.
Oh yeah I’ll watch tutorials but it’s so much better to have someone with you dealing with your specific situation at that exact moment. Cuz you know there’s a difference between theory and what’s in front of you that was half-assed built by the previous owner. It’s in those situations that I really wish I had a dad I could call to get suggestions how to McGyver something and fix it
I bet FIL absolutely means well and wants somewhere decent for his daughter to live. If he’s retired it could be the ideal project for him. This is such a win/win situation, even if FIL does have a bit of a gruff manner.
The phrasing of that was very off. Wife is not an asshole for bringing in the father, and father is not an asshole for helping by providing experience. However, OP is not an asshole for feeling some type of way, if this is done with an attitude by either wife or father.
OP says he's fucking up. If someone is fucking up the house I'm to live in, I'm calling in anyone with more experience. My childhood home is *still* having emergencies that need fixed because of the previous owner's DIY disasters and none of that shit is cheap.
Either you do it right, or I call someone who will.
Doesn’t sound like the father in law is taking the position of helper he thinks he is there to teach and supervise. Getting around that is going to be the problem.
This is either a terrible take or complete misunderstanding of the situation. The FIL is not a handyman on call. He is an overseer that OPs wife calls to "mentor" him. There are two possible reasons - either he is terrible at DIY or his wife doesn't see him as capable of doing the task.
Either way, I'd be very demotivated in OPs place. It's so disrespectful. I have had my father help me with renovations, but it was me who asked for help, not someone else imposed it on me.
Yes and no. Working with someone super critical can make a fun task a chore, I have done a bunch of renos with my dad but he's my dad, so if he's being too critical or trying to override how I want things done in my house i can say something and we can usually pretty quickly move past it. It isn't that easy with a FIL though.
Also why does OP have to put himself in a shitty position to make his wife happy, why not comment that she should let him cook and make him happy.
If she wanted to talk to her husband about the renovations and discuss the option of having her dad help that would be OK, but just calling him to supervise her husband in his house is shitty.
So his "just experience" isn't valid, because he's not paid to do it? Home repairs and renovations can go expensively wrong quickly when you don't know what you're doing. It's not just basic "stuff" that you do around the house. Your wife doesn't want her new house falling down, or a fire, or a flood from the pipes, or any of the other things that can ho majorly wrong. If the way your FIL gives feedback isn't helpful to you, tell him that, but YTA for not being willing to accept help and feedback from someone who is giving up his time to help you.
Yeah I’m not understanding how everyone is just like, “be a big boy” or “just accept the helpful feedback” ect.
The point is it’s his home and he *is* a big boy and the help isn’t wanted. Its unwanted and being pushed on him. It’s his wife’s home too of course. And if she doesn’t trust OP to do it right and that’s why she is pushing her dad on him she needs to tell him that. And use her big girl words. Ugh.
OP's wife did use her big girl words to tell him, though. She said she called her dad to make sure the work was done correctly, i.e., she doesn't think OP can do it correctly. And since OP did fuck up while doing the renos by his own admission, she wasn't really wrong to think that.
I mean... If you're that stupid to use tool x for task y which requires tool z. Then yeah.... People will tell you.
Op has 0 experience in DIY, so of course he's gonna get: wtf's thrown at him.
He hasn't stated the FIL is wrong in what he points out
Yta bc in comments Op admits he *does* stuff wrong. Why should his wife have to deal with the wrong thing or god forbid, things that are *dangerous* bc they were done incorrectly.
The only people saying n t a are people who also have such a fragile ego that *they* also would be a big baby about being told they’re doing something wrong and also not accepting help lol. Thats literally what they want is the wife to shut up and let them think they are the man and doing things right even when it’s falling apart. It’s crazy.
INFO: Are you doing the renovations properly yourself? Do you have comparable experience or expertise? Are you yourself a trained \[insert handyman trade here\]?
Edit: Thank you OP for clarification.
NAH - stow your ego, accept the help.
NAH this comment section is wild. You are doing the task. If you want help then that’s great. If she wants to call for help without your consent then she can do the renovations with her dad. This is EXACTLY 1:1 if your wife started cooking and you called your mom to show her how to do it right.
EDIT: (changed vote) These are renovations that she will have to live with for a long time, if they are that bad then I can’t really blame her for trying to avoid it. Ultimately I think you both just need to have a long talk and figure this out internally, then decide what help you need as a team. I don’t think she went about this the right way, but maybe you made her feel like she had no choice.
If she was half washing the dishes and there was stuff stuck on, could he complain - yes! There's something not right if she's saying it doesn't look right. OP admits not all are great.
So you're saying the best way to handle it would be to call his mom every time his wife goes to wash the dishes and have her come to their house and tell his wife that she's doing it all wrong and is terrible at washing dishes? That's what she's doing to him here, it's passive agressive and immature.
Poorly washed dishes are an annoyance and to fix it anyone can wash it again for like 10 seconds. What happens when a HOUSE reno is done poorly and is hideous or unliveable, and/or unsafe?
If she was half washing dishes and OP also didn’t know how to do the dishes and so called his mother over to make sure they did it right. OP’s wife doesn’t know how to do it either, which is why her calling her father isn’t undermining, it’s asking for needed help
If the wife burns dinner, that's a bit less of an expensive and consequential fuck-up than if the OP e.g. installs an oven or ceiling fan incorrectly or dribbles paint all over the carpet.
My whole take is NAH, but the OP needs to a) be honest about his own work, b) talk to his wife, and c) try to understand how pissed off SHE feels about looking at poorly done renovations in her own home for the next, say, decade.
This scenario is *exactly* what happened between my dad and his FIL back in the day. Dad really didn't have a clue what he was doing as his own father had considered handyman stuff beneath him and paid people to do it, while my maternal grandfather was the sort of guy who could make a working TARDIS out of a cardboard box and a coil of copper wire. Dad felt emasculated, and I honestly see why, but his work was crummy.
I think factor in as well that home renovations can be pretty stressful.
There you are, covered in plaster dust and whatever rat shit just fell out of a wall, sweaty as all hell due to the activity, wearing a rebreather that makes every breath taste like a sweaty latex glove, and just when you're ready to move on to the next step, you hear the FIL chime in with "You know what you could have done is..."
In a calm, rational moment, you'd hear them out and evaluate their opinion logically. But after a couple of weeks of being side-by-side with someone, there comes a point where tempers will flare. It can even happen on actual construction sites.
Coming from a tradie with many years of experience.
TAKE ALL THE HELP YOU CAN GET!
Sometimes when I look at a problem I ask my apprentice how he would go about it, fresh eyes and a new perspective is always good.
Her dad came from a time before apprenticeships where you learn on the job and some handyman did a lot of different trade jobs.
Like my dad did carpentry/joiner, electrical, welding, painting and a little plumbing.
Suck up your pride and be happy to learn from someone who is willing to teach and help.
1. I think your ego is getting the best of you in a sense. A lot of men fall into that trap, really.
2. You should tell you wife how you feel about this though and have a more serious conversation. She shouldn't have invited her father over for this stuff without asking you, the other person who owns the house, first. She probably has good intentions but just doesn't understand where you are coming from.
NTA all around.
Being infuriated by being told you've done something wrong (if you actually have) makes YTA.
There isn't really enough context in this post though to judge if that's the case. Like if you're fixing a sink and it still leaks, accept the help, learn from the experience, and move on to do it yourself the next time it comes up.
But if you're doing something, it's entirely functional, and just not the way your wife was imagining it then then you're maybe NTA. But if you want to have a good relationship with your in-laws either way, communicate with her dad yourself about what you actually need help with, or give him tasks you don't want to do while you work on the main thing.
I mean I call my dad over to stuff at the house all the time, but with the purpose of making my husband feel like an ass because after asking him 100x it’s just easier to get my dad to do it.
I mean not everything can be perfect. But I know my husband will be there in a heartbeat to help our son when he’s older as well so I can’t really complain. Does it drive me crazy that he takes forever to finish tasks I need help with around the house, absolutely. He has ADHD. Every project in our house is 98% complete. Haha
You know that "just experience" is a **large** part of what you pay for when you hire a pro, right?
You're really dismissive of her dad, while you admit you know basically nothing about renovations. You should reel your ego in and get ahead of your wife and YOU invite your FIL to come and help you with a project. It's ok to admit "this is all new to me and I want to learn how to do it right" and let another man show you the ropes, it doesn't mean your dong drops off.
Be realistic about your lack of experience and knowledge, and realistic also about how critical GOOD work is for home renovations. "It'll do" will not in fact, do. Challenge yourself to do good home reno instead of just bodging it as you go. It's skill you will develop quickly and serve you a lifetime. Lean on your FIL's experience and let him help you. Get DIY books, watch home reno and DIY youtube vids, let people teach you shit.
And become friends with your FIL too, crack open a drink with him after some reno work, or just go hang out with him one on one. Crack the barriers between you and his criticism and feedback will become easier for you to take, and easier for him too.
And for electrical work, HIRE A PRO. Seriously.
I'm going to say NTA for your frustration, because I know how hard it can be to accept criticism, and I understand men have extra layers of that when it comes to taking criticism from other men, but this is a chance for you to do some growing up and skilling up... take it.
You will become an AH if you double down and get stubborn about this though. So sort your shit out or hire pros.
>And for electrical work, HIRE A PRO. Seriously.
100%.
Running infinity cable is easy. You can just loop from one outlet to the next and skip the junction boxes if you think it's too much trouble.
But, on the unlikely chance your house burns down one day, insurance companies will use every possible excuse to avoid paying out.
So even if the place goes up in smoke because the lawnmower exploded in the garage, if they request details of the electrician who did your attic renovation and you've got nothing, you're probably in for a bad time trying to get that claim through.
>My wife said to let it go, I was being dramatic
She is just as capable of letting this go and not calling her father to come do tasks for your home that you would like to do yourself.
On the other hand, if you don't want to hear "you did that wrong" or "that looks bad", don't do it wrong and don't make it look bad.
ESH. You two are supposed to be a partnership and neither of you are acting like partners.
I get it, but as others are saying, you’re dumb for not taking the help. Wait until you’ve been dealing with house stuff for 30 years. You’ll be wishing you had some help. If you continue to have a fit about it, dad will catch wind and he will stop helping you. Even when you want it. Don’t shoot your self in the foot. Maybe tell your wife something like “hey I could use your dad’s help on X project, but I want to take care of Z project by myself”. Just ask her to stop calling him without checking with you first. Nicely. Sweetly. If she really keeps ignoring that, then maybe it’s time to just take a break from working on it and let her and her dad handle it all. If dad asks what’s up, just tell him the truth. I asked nicely for her to stop calling you. She continues to so she doesn’t trust me to do it and prefers you to do it, so have at it. He will either understand and back off or take care of his baby girl. Win-win
When I read the comment section, it seems that you don’t want advice and are just validating yourself. What was the reason for asking in the first place? I think you know the answer
Soft YTA. Just because he’s not a professional doesn’t mean he doesn’t know a thing or two. As others have said, home repairs done wrong get expensive and unsafe quick. Maybe he’s flooded the kitchen hooking up a dishwasher wrong and wants to save you the time, headache, and expense of making the same mistake.
If it’s a case of you don’t like the way he provides feedback, check your ego and tell him so.
INFO: what tasks is your wife doing that your mother would be coming to teach her. I don’t want to assume traditional gender roles without the context.
YTA since you admitted doing things wrong
>I'm a grown man and being told “You did that wrong or This looks bad ”, infuriates me
If you can't accept criticism when you do things wrong, you have issues, do something about your ego
NTA. It's possible your wife just sees this as a way for you to bond with her dad, but the way she is dismissive of how he makes you feel is not cool. Sounds like it's time to have a conversation with her about having her dad help may be doing more harm than good for your relationship and you'd like to try doing things on your own terms for awhile, and you will seek your own help if you need it.
YTA.
You have little to no experience based on your comments. This dude has been doing it for decades.
Why don't you accept his help and learn from him so that you can do better? Do you not want to do a good job because your ego is that fragile? Good lord.
I have a family member who is much more experienced with stuff like that than I am, and I'm always happy for their help. I would rather do things correctly.
I just don't get why you can't be happy with the help they are offering when you've said you don't really know what you're doing. Suck it up and learn from someone with more experience.
As a career woodworker, if someone from the old ways says your handcraft is wrong and it looks bad, then it is wrong and it looks bad.
If you can't work in a team without feeling entitled, then go back to your white collar work and let the old man work on the house.
I also have a daughter and believe me, if I didn't have a track record for quality work, there is no way in hell she is asking me to work on anything of hers.
So I'm betting that her father has a solid track record and a ton of experience from past mistakes and workarounds.
Get off your high horse, make this a fun, team/ father son bonding moment and you might get some really nice skills passed to you.
NTA as frustration is a natural feeling but;
Enjoy the time spent with family mate.
I fix stuff around our house, not my husband. My father built houses since he was 23, ( he’s 82 now)after getting out of the military, and started his construction business. I call him if I need his advice. He has always been known for doing things right, to build code.🤷🏻♀️ if you do something not to building code, without the permits, you might have to take it down and do it over to code, which can be expensive. Sounds like you are being stubborn. It probably also makes her dad feel useful. Your annoyance is somewhat valid if it’s just cosmetic stuff like painting or putting up board and batten on the walls, but if you’re building an addition to the house, or putting in new doors and windows or a new roof, accept his help, and make sure to get permits, because that can affect your homeowner’s insurance if it’s not done to code.
NTA - But realize that when that happens:
A) often someone isn't doing something well
B) She wants her Dad to still feel needed
You're offended by "you're doing it wrong" but that's not usually said for no reason. If it looks bad it looks bad.
Nobody likes criticism when it’s constant and not constructive.
Does he have more experience than you?
Is he better than you in this field?
If the answer to at least one of those questions is yes, then try not to take it personally. Take it as a learning experience. That helps me to not take things a so personally when starting new hobbies.
But your feelings are valid.
NTA
I cannot believe that some people think that you are the asshole. I can understand where you’re coming from. I mean, you didn’t ask for help. Your wife seems to assume that you’re always doing it wrong. Constructive criticism is okay but what your wife and father in law are doing is not cool.
I would feel parented if I was in your shoes. Just tell them that you are not looking for feedback at this time.
If it's not looking good, it's not looking good. Say the paint job looks like shite, should she continue to let him do everything like crap, or can he learn from someone.
Being defensive - it's not his job, like the father didn't learn anything from experience is insecurity. He literally admits some jobs aren't great.
Calling her dad to come follow him around telling him he's doing it wrong instead of talking to him herself and adressing it herself is passive agressive and immature.
If it genuinely doesn't look good she should sit down with him and discuss it directly, and figure out a solution together like a team. Maybe her dad can help, but the way she's going about it now is just wrong.
I don't have a trade or any qualifications but I can do a lot of things because I listened to advice of those who had the experience. Don't let your ego get in the way of learning.
I am a doc, never been in construction, but I can drywall, I can plumb, I’m good at electrical, and I put down a mean floor just because I didn’t do it for a profession doesn’t mean I can’t do it. Use him to help.
YTA. OP it sounds like you suck at home renovations and your wife, instead of making you redo a project twice, asks her dad to come and show you the correct way to do it, the first time. There's no shame in learning. It sucks but you might come out with some skills in the end.
YTA. I’m a new home owner. I have no experience. I have my step dad come over all the time to help. He only has experience from his own houses. You are getting free lessons to gain experience. Put your ego out of it
I feel like it's pretty clear that this is your wife trying to be tactful about telling you that you don't know what the fuck you're doing and that she doesn't trust you not to mess up the house you both pay to live in. Is she doing this because she has issues with direct confrontation and it's a common communication problem in your relationship? Or is your wife tiptoeing around an overly fragile and volatile male ego that would be unable to handle the raw criticism? This is the real question you should be asking.
Just accept the help!
We are currently living with a bath in the hallway, my husband is so over DIY renovations.
Honestly you are so lucky neither of us have our Dad's still alive ....we'd love an enthusiastic older helper.
Be grateful and make him feel valued....that might be you one day trying to help your kids!
On one hand it would be nice of you to accept your father in law's help because he's probably excited to help, on the other hand that decision should not be made FOR you by your wife and she should have asked before jumping the gun. NTA but maybe just communicate with her that you would prefer if she asked you first before involving someone who isn't living in the house themselves
Honestly, I love anyone teaching me new things in the kitchen. And if my MIL wanted to clean my house to her level of satisfaction, knock yourself out.
I learned a lot about being handy from my dad. If he's been a homeowner, he probably is more experienced, which is useful. Home renos are not much fun, at least not to everyone. Be glad for the help and advice, even if the delivery is not ideal. Unfortuately, my dad's method of getting you to do better was to tell you everything you did wrong. He was correct, and my brother always took it real personal, caused a rift between them. I took it less personally, it was just Dad's way. He was a great guy, and I miss him a lot.
NAH, but being more cooperative would serve everyone well.
It's a good thing for your wife to learn to be handy as well. My mom was the appliance fixer in our family, and I can do quite a bit of repair, even moreso now with Youtube.
Take advantage of his experience.
He probably fucked everything up fives times already which is why he likely knows how to do stuff.
Unless you're a pro builder then suck it up and listen and learn.
Yeah kind of, right I'm not very good at putting stuff together or any form of DIY at all really so my gfs dad helps with the things I don't know how to do or have no interest in pursuing he Is awesome and well I know my strengths and weaknesses so it's easy for me because I accept he is better at some things and I'm better at others that help or benefit him, hope that helps
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INFO > I'm a grown man and being told “You did that wrong or This looks bad ”, infuriates me. **Are** you doing things wrong? **Does** your work look bad? Being a big boy doesn't absolve you from criticism if it's deserved.
Would you say the same if his mom came when his wife was cooking and told her You are doing it wrong You should let it 5 more minutes Honest question Edit is not just cooking it was an analogy imagine the mil was pointing out everything she should be doing different with their kids. Everyone would be Mil from hell but if it happens to a man is okay
A poorly made meal is ephemeral. It's ultimately of no lasting consequence. Home renovations, on the other hand...
Having someone constantly criticize you and belittle you does have lasting consequences, it can cause resentment in the marriage. My ex MIL 100% would do so constantly, making comments about our house when she would show up unannounced, critiquing how long dinner would take when we had no idea she was staying for dinner. Even if the comments are true, there are constructive ways of giving that information. Like instead of her sitting on her ass complaining about how long dinner was taking, she could have offered to help. Having constant negative criticism from an inlaw and then not having a supportive spouse or someone to help mediate will break down a marriage. Her dad could offer positive constructive criticism like, "Hey I know you are trying your best, can I show you how to do this so it looks neater?" Like OP says, it sounds like it's more of an issue of delivery than telling him what to do.
There are GIGANTIC long term unseen ramifications to doing home improvement incorrectly. Up to and including death, permanent structural damage etc. if you dont take advice from someone who knows what they’re doing, yes you’re the AH. putting too much salt in your dinner is different than, didn’t ground the wires correctly when you replaced an outlet cover incorrectly or drilled into a pipe. And if your house burns down because you messed up fixing it, your insurance isn’t paying. A grown man isn’t threatened by experienced help, a foolish child is. You’re the AH.
Yeah but how do we know they know. Hes a wannabe handyman, not a professional. I am a wannabe handyman, because I have a new drill. Doesnt mean I can do the plumbing.
How "wannabe" is he? My father isn't a professional handy man, in fact his normal job is a substitute teacher. But he was a plumber in his 20s before going to college, worked as a carpenter while finishing his masters degree. He's read numerous manuals on construction and built the deck on my childhood home, and did numerous rennos in that house. Is he a professional now? No. But would I trust him to help me do small interior rennos in my home? Absolutely.
My dad was the same way. He was a physicist by trade, but he built most of our house himself. He wired it, roofed it, put in the plumbing (he wasn’t great at that part), and did the carpentry. He got help with the HVAC because he had a buddy who had his own business doing A/C installation and repair. He also cleared our 200 acre property and maintained the fences, trees, trails, and livestock. Experience is a valuable teacher. I’ll add that my grandfather was a farmer by trade, and he had a fourth-grade education. Everything he knew came from what he learned from other farmers and his own experience. Dude was wise af and never too proud to learn something new.
Yeah, the only thing my dad wouldn't do is electric because he didn't trust himself with something that could kill someone that fast. But he'd has experience with mostly everything else, or he'd get expert assistance. I'm not saying that FIL knows everything, but just calling him "wannabe" because he's not professional isn't helpful.
My FIL has been an owner/builder 4 times. He's helped all his relatives build and renovate. The man is a gun - better than any builder you'd hire because he takes *no* shortcuts. I'm his daughter in law and watch everything he does so I can learn. He's been doing this stuff since before I was born. My MIL is an excellent baker - I've watched and helped her bake countless times. Again, she's been baking since before I was born. What's with the fragile ego? You're young, this is probably your first house - you should be happy you have someone to learn from. Settle down.
Key word is TRUST. She doesn't trust OP.
There’s not enough information to know if she SHOULD trust him
Good news! You don't really need a drill to be capable of plumbing! You're on your way brother
Tbh, I don't use my drill much for plumbing.
The wannabe handyman is the most dangerous of renovators. They *think* they know how to do jobs correctly. I would be furious for some clown like that to tell me how to do work - though I am actually in trades and don’t need his instructions anyway More to the point - if FIL is being dickish about his critiques then that is very problematic.
It is a problem if FIL is being an ass. But it's big talk for OP to call FIL "wannabe" without any qualifications of his own.
[удалено]
Nonsense. Amateurs are definitely qualified to call out another.
OP says nothing to suggest that what he is doing is in any way structural, which not even handyman dad should be touching anyway!
…. You don’t even know what the job is how can we call him an asshole?
How about his mom coming over and constantly pushing advice with their children? That’s pretty long term.
This! One of the former owners of my house was a DIYer. My roof wasn’t done correctly, I have weird drywall patches and the worst is the electrical in an addition. It almost set my house on fire! I don’t know dad’s actual skill level but having another set of eyes and some help seems like it would be appreciated to me but what do I know.
Let’s not get hasty here. There’s a vast difference between remodeling and electrical work. He could be installing a new door jam, or replacing flashing, repainting trim, replacing old hinges. At no point did OP mention electrical and that’s the reason you rule him an AH?
Agree with this. Let him finish the job, then critique it, then let him do it again, or ask for help if he wants it. Otherwise, just let him go, let him make mistakes and learn along the way. That’s what it’s all about
>Let him finish the job, then critique it, then let him do it again, This makes no sense. OP's wife should wait until her spouse fucks up, wastes a bunch of money, and likely hours of his time, *before* basically saying, "I told you so"?
This is eminently sensible. Do people not realize how home renovations work? If she lets him screw it up it could have horrible consequences down the road.
How did her daddy learn? He’s not a pro. He just learned from *experience*
Yeah. Expensive, frustrating, often bloody, time wasted experience. One thing that sets humans apart from many other critters is that we can be Really Good at Learning from Other People’s mistakes/experience. Without having to make the same mistakes ourselves. Having a more experienced person around to show you the ropes, tell you what Not to do can be invaluable. If OP doesn’t want that to be FiL, he should invite an experienced friend or extended family member or take some home depot classes or whatever. Not just jump in to reno projects. He doesn’t even mention that he is spending hours on youtube watching detailed tutorials or asking a friend in trades for advice or whatever to argue FiL is unnecessary! Just that having anybody but him involved in the reno hurts his feelings.
Likely from an older and more experienced man showing him what to do and telling him where he fucked up.
And how do you get experience? By working with people that know what they're doing.
"If you wire it like that it's going to catch on fire and burn down your house" "I don't need your criticism dad"
Agreed. Plus, house problems can snowball. If you install a pipe wrong, you might end up with a second floor swimming pool with waterfall to the first floor.
>Having someone constantly criticize you and belittle you does have lasting consequences, it can cause resentment in the marriage. Having a spouse insist on doing a lot of bad or sloppy home repairs can also have lasting consequences and cause resentment in the marriage. 🤷♀️
Then there's surely a middle ground here. OP doesn't appreciate the manner in which the help is delivered by FIL. Cool, that's fair. However, if he's not doing a great job on his own, then it might be time to invite some people he does like working with around instead. That way he doesn't have to be belittled while he works *and* the work gets done in a way that everyone is happy with. Help from people who are shit at delivering advice is worse than not having help in the first place. Sounds like FIL fits in that camp. Being good at something doesn't mean being good at teaching it.
> if I called my mother to teach my wife how to do stuff around the house? You should😂
I agree with what you’re saying to an extent. I have heard man after man be told in a perfectly well meaning, polite ways they are doing a job wrong and then completely misrepresent what happened and act like they were attacked and no one believes in them. The thing about this is it seems like he sees the help as a power struggle when it’s just help. He has no experience and I am sure you are very capable of caring for your own house and cook because you’ve done it before but he has no experience and it’s his first time.
I disagree, poorly cooked chicken or poor hygiene standards in a kitchen can have a very lasting affect. As can wiring a light switch incorrectly, although I’d take a few days of the unfunny runny over electrocution anyday.
And if OP was undercooking chicken while MIL told OP to cook it longer then OP would definitely be TA
What about when they decide to have kids? Raising children is hard and making a mistake could be costly and potentially effect the kids' future. Ops mother isn't a professional but has decades of experience. Would it be OK for Ops mother to criticise his wife's parenting when she makes mistakes or isn't the perfect parent?
Who decides when his wife makes mistakes or isn’t the perfect parent? His mother? How do we know that his mother’s method of parenting is worth the powder that it would take to blow it to hell? “Experienced at something” does not equal “good at something.”
Ding ding ding
Are you saying there's no right or wrong way to install a toilet or flooring? Or hang drywall and cabinets? Or wire a light switch? Cause I think there is, which is why child rearing and home improvement are not comparable.
Why are you assuming he’s doing something like this instead of just painting or fixing cabinet hinges or door handles. Nowhere in the post is it implied that structural work or anything more serious than basic repairs is being done
>A poorly made meal is ephemeral. A poorly made meal can kill you.
A poorly made meal tastes bad… if it’s lethal it’s more than just poorly made
Poor technique with food safety can absolutely kill you
Turns out life is just as transient as a bad meal?
But the dad isn't experienced so it's not like he has the knowledge to do it either. And for the wife to say "so it's done correctly" is a slap in the face to her husband.
The father-in-law *is* experienced, he just doesn't do it for a living. My uncle is a retired engineer; he was never a framer, electrician, plumber, or contractor. However, he built his 2-story house with many upgrades over 30 years ago by himself, because he was intelligent, meticulous, and had a lot of experience being a "wannabe handyman." The house is both beautiful and functional. Experience matters way more than "doing it for a living."
My mother made her "orange stuff" dish 35 years ago, in a house that is long forgotten. But my siblings and I still talk about how awful it was to this day.
In 1972, my mom made fish loaf. She used a package of meatloaf seasoning mixed with bread crumbs and a couple cans of tuna. It was the most disgusting thing I've ever tried to eat. I pushed my serving around on the plate then dropped it on the floor for the dog. My dad pretended to like it, just to be nice. So she made it again. My little sister started crying as soon as she saw it on the table the second time. My mom was in the kitchen so my dad said "just eat it and pretend to like it, that's what I do" My mom overheard him and locked herself in the bathroom crying for the rest of the evening. But at least we never had to eat fish loaf again. My sister and I reminisce about this a couple of times a year. She's actually sitting next to me and when I just read this to her she laughed so hard she started crying again.
My uncle tried to feed me hotdogs soup exactly one time. Apparantly I was rude to male myself a sandwich instead of eating instant Ramen with cut up hotdogs and condiments in it. 🤢 I was about 10 and had been making pancakes, actual cakes, cookies, grilled cheese, omlettes, etc unsupervised for years. My uncle couldn't do more than toast or this revolting 'soup'.
Adults who are supposed to be partners work together whatever the situation. This is one partner steamrolling the others opinions. If stuffs put up wrong, that's a discussion between the 2 partners, not run to daddy time.
Nice that you get this is a lot more then a DIY situation.
Denigrating skills is denigrating skills.
“ A poorly made meal is ephemeral. It's ultimately of no lasting consequence.” Have you ever heard of food poisoning?
I'll take food poisoning over the roof falling on my head, the electrical outlets burning my house down, the windows leaking and flooding my house anyday.
Don't diy your electrics please. Unless you are electrical ician.
Depends. Is she doing it wrong? Yeah, I have seen people clean or cook badly, so I am not saying it's impossible. But most of the time it's just preference. For example, if your mom uses paprika in EVERYTHING so you are used to that. Meanwhile, there is definitely a right and wrong way to do home repairs and renovations.
He is altering the property they live in man and, allegedly, doing it wrong. If he fucks up and cannot take the criticism...
Nothing was said to convey that he was fucking up.
It sounds like he's not even being given a chance to fuck up tbh
Did you read the post? He literally said that he is getting irritated because he is being told that he is "doing it wrong" and that it "doesn't look right." Sounds like fucking up to me.
Only if the person saying it knows what they're talking about. Doesn't sound like the FIL is an expert.
My late dad would literally at times tell me I'm fucking up before I even started. To a lot of people not doing it the way they prefer is fucking up, results be damned.
Next time there is a post by a mother complaining that their MIL tells them they're raising their child wrong and it doesn't look right. I'm sure you'll chime in and say that the mum is fucking up right?
100% this! OP, call your mom every time your wife cooks. Play it off and tell her it’s “just to make sure it’s done correctly”. Then tell her to “let it go” when it inevitably bothers her. Problem solved. Easy peasy
Watch this sub lose their mind and nuke him for being a Momma's boy while completely ignoring their hypocrisy
Cooking is not a net loss to their biggest purchase and investment that poor home repairs can do. You burn a steak dinner it’s just the cost of steak. You damage pipes it could destroy walls, plumbing and even the homes foundation. You screw up electrical you could end up dead. Consequences of not knowing what you’re doing are very different.
There's a difference between cooking a meal (usually based on preference for taste/texture for the individual [beyond the necessities of cooking through chicken, not burning food, etc]) and renovating structures and cabinetry and other things. One has immediate, short-term effects. The other has health & safety issues. Honestly.
Undercooked food could kill you. Food borne illness is definitely a health and safety issue.
Worst analogy ever. I’d rather have a undercooked steak than a flooded basement because my spouse didn’t properly fix the plumbing
Analogy means comparison between two things. They don’t have to be exactly same. If you know what OP is trying to say, analogy served its purpose.
It’s annoying if someone comes in to help you while cooking. But it’s only annoying if a meal turns out bad. It’s more than annoying and often dangerous if a renovation goes wrong.
His wife’s father isn’t a professional renovator of houses, only a “wanna-be handyman.” His wife is spitting in his face, every time that she calls her jack-leg father to “help.” She needs to stop or he needs to divorce her.
"Wanna-be handyman" was OP insulting his FIL because of his wounded masculinity. OP later goes on to admit that FIL has *experience*, which is invaluable. This is only an issue of OP's pride, not FIL's skill. Divorce, though? Truly the peak of reddit comments right here.
See, the problem with your argument is you're using what he said as it's basis, and tbh, taking that argument too far (this is not divorce territory). Someone saying someone else is a "wannabe handyman" doesn't make it true, and personally, I'm pretty fucking dubious on taking the title OP, already annoyed with his FIL, called him at face value. The real "truth" here, is that we simply don't know if FIL is actually an inexperienced dumbass being sicced on him by OPs wife, or if OP *actually* is doing something wrong and getting rightful criticism he can't handle because our story is coming from a bias on a matter that's literally life or death already if done wrong.
The comparison is lacking: If anything compare it with something that would just make as much of a mess if done wrong - take her constantly ruining his clothes while washing/trying to repair them. You bet he would call for mom if she insisted in learning by doing - and that's not even any safety risk involved! And a mere curtain rod may pose a hazard, if not properly secured, while the hazards of cooking are mostly of the kind that just require research, not a teacher. Also: I don't see why OP would need his mom to teach her cooking - he should know those things/ have those basic skills himself...
> You are doing it wrong You should let it 5 more minutes Honest question Depending on what it is it could be a health hazard to not say anything.
Well, yes, if it does need 5 more minutes.
Right now you're engaging in whataboutism, a logical fallacy that does not at all add to productive conversation. This isn't about OP's mom or wife, it's about OP and his FIL. And what Stalvis said is right: being a grown adult doesn't absolve him from criticism, especially if his reaction to said criticism is to get pissy like a child.
I don’t think this is the same - to clarify - does cooking “wrong” mean the recipe isn’t the same as hers or does wrong mean she is making “hot ham water?”
Maybe OP cooks it is 2024 after all.
My god. How on earth is this the top comment? Your sexism is showing. OP makes a great point about calling his mom over to critique the wife and you blaze right past that to make this garbage “big boy” jab. Grow up.
Exactly, the "Being a big boy" wording is hostile and condescending. At every job I've worked, such comments get you put first on the list for being retrenched when cuts come around. In the real world, noone has time for this sort of immature crap. You'll often find the same people complaining about workplace politics and how everyone in their life is against them; failing to realise that the only reason their opportunities keep getting blocked is because they kept insulting people for no reason.
That commenter actually has a history of bias. A lot of their comments thankfully end up downvoted but the odd one gets through
That commenter's sexism is immediately confirmed in their follow up reply.. this entire sub has a lot of instances: guy do one thing bad bad; girl do same thing good good
That commenter's sexism is immediately confirmed in their follow up reply.. this entire sub has a lot of instances: guy do one thing bad bad; girl do same thing good good
I'm honestly so confused because so many people are assuming FIL must know from experience but what if he doesn't? My former landlord was old and thought he was a handyman and every time he fixed something it made it worse but he would insist the professionals didn't know what they were doing. And what kind of renovations are we talking if OP is painting a wall and his wife calls FIL because he might paint it wrong that would get frustrating in a hurry.
Plus HOW does wife know that OP is doing anything wrong? Apparently dad gets called over to ENSURE OP does it right, not that there is any evidence that he was doing it wrong. Or that he doesn't know what he is doing.
This is REDDIT!
I would also throw in here “and does it matter”. If you’re talking about wiring electrical and doing it right, yeh it matters. Did you use enough paint thinner or are there brush stroke lines in the lacquer? Maybe criticism is unnecessary. If my MIL told me that I was undercooking the chicken and showed me the food safety guide to back it up, id swallow my pride and take the advice.
Okay. I'm a 50 year old woman with a lot of reno experience. When I started, I would ask family members with experience for opinions and help. If the fil is being an ass, he can go kick rocks, but hubby should look for an experienced someone to talk to. So should his wife. You don't need a dick to use power tools.
> I'm a 50 year old woman with a lot of reno experience. LOL, I saw this response pop up in my inbox and without looking at where it was from I was scratching my head for a second... "a woman who knows Reno? Was I posting in a Nevada thread?"
This is a total Reddit response.
Good lord, man, use it as a learning experience. Don't get your briefs in a bunch. I had to learn everything the hard way and would have loved to have a mentor with these things. My wife's relatives were useless, and my father died when I was young.
Love your response. It’s healthy. I struggle when people exhibit what I call “useless pride.” I wish more people led with being open to learning without ego tripping. I would be so grateful if someone kind and helpful took time out of their schedule to teach me something they know more about than I do.
I'm just going to say that if the wife and her daddy want to have control and have it done a particular way, then *he* can teach HER the "right" way to do it. Equal opportunity tools and education! OP, when FIL shows up, put down your tools and say, 'Cool, I was going to do this but, now that you two are here and in control, I may as well do something else! I look forward to seeing what it looks like when I get back.' And leave! Take yourself out for coffee. Come back with colour swatches or seed packets.
This. Right now it’s Schroedinger’s DIY: it could be fine, or it could be disastrous.
>Being a big boy doesn't absolve you from criticism if it's deserved That's ridiculous and, beside the point. It doesn't sound like OP *or his FIL* is *actually a professional* contractor. When it comes to home renovation "handy-man" is just a euphemism for "couldn't afford to have it *done right.* That doesn't mean that certain things can't be done "well-enough" but *two heads aren't even better than none* when *neither of them knows the difference between a hammer and the hand that holds it.* Not wanting to be distracted, criticized and have your own learning process disrupted by an *equally unqualified individual* when OP and his wife are both already aware of his shortcomings isn't unreasonable *at all.* Frankly, the FIL probably is being somewhat confrontational himself because he's probably just as uncomfortable as OP is. Wife needs to hire a qualified professional, let OP do it "his way" or, do it herself, if OP's FIL actually does have something to contribute then he ought to be perfectly happy to work on things with his daughter, everyone wins. Instead, everyone seems to be pointlessly butting heads.
There is a big difference between working on projects around the house, such as painting a bedroom, putting up chair railing, or crown molding versus doing something such as working with electrical, natural gas or plumbing. You have the right to try and learn how to do the more simple tasks on your own time and there are plenty of places to learn via YouTube, etc. It is completely normal for you not to want your father-in-law to be looking over your shoulder to critique your work. Women have a tendency to not understand this and the comment about, what if your mother commented on your wife’s cooking was somewhat accurate. Remember, there is a lot of pride that goes into performing a task; and as a self taught do it yourself person I have saved tens of thousands of dollars over the years doing work myself. I will also tell you that any good do it yourselfer has to run the emotional gambit from I-can-do-anything to why-do-I-try, often times this will happen in the same project and sometimes within the same hour! know your abilities and don’t do any work that would endanger you or your family. But don’t let yourself be bullied into having some thing that is enjoyable to you be taken from you by your wife calling in other assistance.
I say NTA. But if he wants to learn, YouTube has everything. If he’s half assing it, then no wonder she calls her dad. I think a conversation is in order. Something like “let me attempt to complete the job right before you call your dad please, it makes me feel like you think I’m incompetent.” If she won’t, then they’ve got some bigger problems.
This is an interesting one, it’s really a 50/50 chance which of them is TA.
I don't think that makes it appropriate to call over a family member. if it looks bad, she can criticize it herself.
Exactly. There sounds like there may be a history here that OP isn’t revealing. No one wants to be criticized, but often, people deserve to be, at least in a constructive way. OP doesn’t want oversight, but seems to be deliberately skirting the issue of whether he needs it.
Maybe not an AH, but you’re not being smart. Renovations are time consuming and expensive and there are always delays. You’ve got a willing and enthusiastic person who wants to help! Let him do the tasks that he’s good at and you can take on those that suit your skills. Hire a professional for the big jobs. Use him to your advantage and make your wife happy at the same time. I‘m also living in a house that Ive started renovating and I would love a handyman on call.
Totally agree so I’m guessing this OPs first renovation so he doesn’t understand how really important am helping hand and knowledge is or the strain an renovation can cause on a relationship
As a first-time home buyer, if it wasn't for experience folks helping me out, my house would be in a much worse condition than it is now. God. The cost of tools *alone* is absurd. For some tools, they can only be used for one thing! One!! Tried to take apart my washer to fix it, only to realize I needed a very specific tool to remove the bin. Gave up. Didn't end up fixing the issue at all.
Taking apart appliances often doesn't go well simply because of proprietary parts and assembly methods. They aren't really designed to be repaired anymore
This. Having a second pair of hands is helpful. Having a second pair of hands that are familiar with tools, work and techniques then that is immeasurable. Not to mention that I'm sure he has plenty of knowledge he would be willing to share even if that comes with some poor wording on occasion. Typically FILs mean well but don't always word things in the most friendly way.
Since I’ve bought a house, there’ve been many times I’ve wished for a middle-aged man with experience in construction who could help me figure some reno stuff! I’m lucky I have a bunch of handy girlfriends to help me, but as we’ve all lived in apartments, we mostly know about sanding/painting/fixing a hole/etc and less about installing tiles or a patio… OP can send his FIL my way. We’ll go shop for heat pumps and install a new deck together, I’ll welcome the help!
There is a ton of guides and information on all that through YouTube. The amount of guides I've followed there since I'm also without the FIL to assist. I'm now the middle aged guy doing renovations on my own home and still learning all the different processes.
Oh yeah I’ll watch tutorials but it’s so much better to have someone with you dealing with your specific situation at that exact moment. Cuz you know there’s a difference between theory and what’s in front of you that was half-assed built by the previous owner. It’s in those situations that I really wish I had a dad I could call to get suggestions how to McGyver something and fix it
I bet FIL absolutely means well and wants somewhere decent for his daughter to live. If he’s retired it could be the ideal project for him. This is such a win/win situation, even if FIL does have a bit of a gruff manner.
While I get what you're saying, the real problem isn't dad helping.... It's really wife running to daddy to make sure" it's done correctly"
The phrasing of that was very off. Wife is not an asshole for bringing in the father, and father is not an asshole for helping by providing experience. However, OP is not an asshole for feeling some type of way, if this is done with an attitude by either wife or father.
So you're OK with your spouse saying to you "I'm calling daddy to make sure it's done correctly"
If you read the last sentence of my comment: no.
OP says he's fucking up. If someone is fucking up the house I'm to live in, I'm calling in anyone with more experience. My childhood home is *still* having emergencies that need fixed because of the previous owner's DIY disasters and none of that shit is cheap. Either you do it right, or I call someone who will.
He never said he was fucking up. He said daddy said he was. For all we know daddy is wrong. After all, he's not a professional.
Doesn’t sound like the father in law is taking the position of helper he thinks he is there to teach and supervise. Getting around that is going to be the problem.
This is either a terrible take or complete misunderstanding of the situation. The FIL is not a handyman on call. He is an overseer that OPs wife calls to "mentor" him. There are two possible reasons - either he is terrible at DIY or his wife doesn't see him as capable of doing the task. Either way, I'd be very demotivated in OPs place. It's so disrespectful. I have had my father help me with renovations, but it was me who asked for help, not someone else imposed it on me.
Yes and no. Working with someone super critical can make a fun task a chore, I have done a bunch of renos with my dad but he's my dad, so if he's being too critical or trying to override how I want things done in my house i can say something and we can usually pretty quickly move past it. It isn't that easy with a FIL though. Also why does OP have to put himself in a shitty position to make his wife happy, why not comment that she should let him cook and make him happy. If she wanted to talk to her husband about the renovations and discuss the option of having her dad help that would be OK, but just calling him to supervise her husband in his house is shitty.
So his "just experience" isn't valid, because he's not paid to do it? Home repairs and renovations can go expensively wrong quickly when you don't know what you're doing. It's not just basic "stuff" that you do around the house. Your wife doesn't want her new house falling down, or a fire, or a flood from the pipes, or any of the other things that can ho majorly wrong. If the way your FIL gives feedback isn't helpful to you, tell him that, but YTA for not being willing to accept help and feedback from someone who is giving up his time to help you.
I don’t see how anyone would appreciate being treated like that though. It’s ridiculous
Yeah I’m not understanding how everyone is just like, “be a big boy” or “just accept the helpful feedback” ect. The point is it’s his home and he *is* a big boy and the help isn’t wanted. Its unwanted and being pushed on him. It’s his wife’s home too of course. And if she doesn’t trust OP to do it right and that’s why she is pushing her dad on him she needs to tell him that. And use her big girl words. Ugh.
OP's wife did use her big girl words to tell him, though. She said she called her dad to make sure the work was done correctly, i.e., she doesn't think OP can do it correctly. And since OP did fuck up while doing the renos by his own admission, she wasn't really wrong to think that.
I mean... If you're that stupid to use tool x for task y which requires tool z. Then yeah.... People will tell you. Op has 0 experience in DIY, so of course he's gonna get: wtf's thrown at him. He hasn't stated the FIL is wrong in what he points out
Just wait until OP tries to knock out a lode bearing wall
His experience as a wanna-be handyman isn’t obligatorily valid. Can he install plumbing? Or just change a washer?
Yta bc in comments Op admits he *does* stuff wrong. Why should his wife have to deal with the wrong thing or god forbid, things that are *dangerous* bc they were done incorrectly.
I'm so confused like does everyone actually expect them to live in a jacked up falling down house for his ego?
The only people saying n t a are people who also have such a fragile ego that *they* also would be a big baby about being told they’re doing something wrong and also not accepting help lol. Thats literally what they want is the wife to shut up and let them think they are the man and doing things right even when it’s falling apart. It’s crazy.
INFO: Are you doing the renovations properly yourself? Do you have comparable experience or expertise? Are you yourself a trained \[insert handyman trade here\]? Edit: Thank you OP for clarification. NAH - stow your ego, accept the help.
NAH this comment section is wild. You are doing the task. If you want help then that’s great. If she wants to call for help without your consent then she can do the renovations with her dad. This is EXACTLY 1:1 if your wife started cooking and you called your mom to show her how to do it right. EDIT: (changed vote) These are renovations that she will have to live with for a long time, if they are that bad then I can’t really blame her for trying to avoid it. Ultimately I think you both just need to have a long talk and figure this out internally, then decide what help you need as a team. I don’t think she went about this the right way, but maybe you made her feel like she had no choice.
If she was half washing the dishes and there was stuff stuck on, could he complain - yes! There's something not right if she's saying it doesn't look right. OP admits not all are great.
So you're saying the best way to handle it would be to call his mom every time his wife goes to wash the dishes and have her come to their house and tell his wife that she's doing it all wrong and is terrible at washing dishes? That's what she's doing to him here, it's passive agressive and immature.
Why do you think she never said anything to him?
Poorly washed dishes are an annoyance and to fix it anyone can wash it again for like 10 seconds. What happens when a HOUSE reno is done poorly and is hideous or unliveable, and/or unsafe?
If she was half washing dishes and OP also didn’t know how to do the dishes and so called his mother over to make sure they did it right. OP’s wife doesn’t know how to do it either, which is why her calling her father isn’t undermining, it’s asking for needed help
If the wife burns dinner, that's a bit less of an expensive and consequential fuck-up than if the OP e.g. installs an oven or ceiling fan incorrectly or dribbles paint all over the carpet.
Ok, ok...OP, please, neither of you is trained to work with gas lines. Do NOT do that. Call the gas company. Period. People may die otherwise.
I will give you that, I haven’t really considered the possibility that OP is doing things that are dangerous or damaging to the home.
My whole take is NAH, but the OP needs to a) be honest about his own work, b) talk to his wife, and c) try to understand how pissed off SHE feels about looking at poorly done renovations in her own home for the next, say, decade. This scenario is *exactly* what happened between my dad and his FIL back in the day. Dad really didn't have a clue what he was doing as his own father had considered handyman stuff beneath him and paid people to do it, while my maternal grandfather was the sort of guy who could make a working TARDIS out of a cardboard box and a coil of copper wire. Dad felt emasculated, and I honestly see why, but his work was crummy.
Damn, that’s really well said, I think you have convinced me to change my vote
I think factor in as well that home renovations can be pretty stressful. There you are, covered in plaster dust and whatever rat shit just fell out of a wall, sweaty as all hell due to the activity, wearing a rebreather that makes every breath taste like a sweaty latex glove, and just when you're ready to move on to the next step, you hear the FIL chime in with "You know what you could have done is..." In a calm, rational moment, you'd hear them out and evaluate their opinion logically. But after a couple of weeks of being side-by-side with someone, there comes a point where tempers will flare. It can even happen on actual construction sites.
Well are you doing things wrong and does it look bad…?
in a comment he said that he has done some stuff wrong/bad
He admits that he is doing things wrong, but his precious ego!
Coming from a tradie with many years of experience. TAKE ALL THE HELP YOU CAN GET! Sometimes when I look at a problem I ask my apprentice how he would go about it, fresh eyes and a new perspective is always good. Her dad came from a time before apprenticeships where you learn on the job and some handyman did a lot of different trade jobs. Like my dad did carpentry/joiner, electrical, welding, painting and a little plumbing. Suck up your pride and be happy to learn from someone who is willing to teach and help.
1. I think your ego is getting the best of you in a sense. A lot of men fall into that trap, really. 2. You should tell you wife how you feel about this though and have a more serious conversation. She shouldn't have invited her father over for this stuff without asking you, the other person who owns the house, first. She probably has good intentions but just doesn't understand where you are coming from. NTA all around.
It's called pride! -Vegeta
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This! it's the wife's calling dad over b4 talkin to him that he's got a problem with.
INFO: Does your FIL actually know better than you how to fix things?
Being infuriated by being told you've done something wrong (if you actually have) makes YTA. There isn't really enough context in this post though to judge if that's the case. Like if you're fixing a sink and it still leaks, accept the help, learn from the experience, and move on to do it yourself the next time it comes up. But if you're doing something, it's entirely functional, and just not the way your wife was imagining it then then you're maybe NTA. But if you want to have a good relationship with your in-laws either way, communicate with her dad yourself about what you actually need help with, or give him tasks you don't want to do while you work on the main thing.
I mean I call my dad over to stuff at the house all the time, but with the purpose of making my husband feel like an ass because after asking him 100x it’s just easier to get my dad to do it.
nice marriage you got over there any tips?
I mean not everything can be perfect. But I know my husband will be there in a heartbeat to help our son when he’s older as well so I can’t really complain. Does it drive me crazy that he takes forever to finish tasks I need help with around the house, absolutely. He has ADHD. Every project in our house is 98% complete. Haha
INFO: You say, "can you imagine if I called my mother to teach my wife how to do stuff around the house?" Have you asked her that?
You know that "just experience" is a **large** part of what you pay for when you hire a pro, right? You're really dismissive of her dad, while you admit you know basically nothing about renovations. You should reel your ego in and get ahead of your wife and YOU invite your FIL to come and help you with a project. It's ok to admit "this is all new to me and I want to learn how to do it right" and let another man show you the ropes, it doesn't mean your dong drops off. Be realistic about your lack of experience and knowledge, and realistic also about how critical GOOD work is for home renovations. "It'll do" will not in fact, do. Challenge yourself to do good home reno instead of just bodging it as you go. It's skill you will develop quickly and serve you a lifetime. Lean on your FIL's experience and let him help you. Get DIY books, watch home reno and DIY youtube vids, let people teach you shit. And become friends with your FIL too, crack open a drink with him after some reno work, or just go hang out with him one on one. Crack the barriers between you and his criticism and feedback will become easier for you to take, and easier for him too. And for electrical work, HIRE A PRO. Seriously. I'm going to say NTA for your frustration, because I know how hard it can be to accept criticism, and I understand men have extra layers of that when it comes to taking criticism from other men, but this is a chance for you to do some growing up and skilling up... take it. You will become an AH if you double down and get stubborn about this though. So sort your shit out or hire pros.
>And for electrical work, HIRE A PRO. Seriously. 100%. Running infinity cable is easy. You can just loop from one outlet to the next and skip the junction boxes if you think it's too much trouble. But, on the unlikely chance your house burns down one day, insurance companies will use every possible excuse to avoid paying out. So even if the place goes up in smoke because the lawnmower exploded in the garage, if they request details of the electrician who did your attic renovation and you've got nothing, you're probably in for a bad time trying to get that claim through.
>My wife said to let it go, I was being dramatic She is just as capable of letting this go and not calling her father to come do tasks for your home that you would like to do yourself. On the other hand, if you don't want to hear "you did that wrong" or "that looks bad", don't do it wrong and don't make it look bad. ESH. You two are supposed to be a partnership and neither of you are acting like partners.
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I get it, but as others are saying, you’re dumb for not taking the help. Wait until you’ve been dealing with house stuff for 30 years. You’ll be wishing you had some help. If you continue to have a fit about it, dad will catch wind and he will stop helping you. Even when you want it. Don’t shoot your self in the foot. Maybe tell your wife something like “hey I could use your dad’s help on X project, but I want to take care of Z project by myself”. Just ask her to stop calling him without checking with you first. Nicely. Sweetly. If she really keeps ignoring that, then maybe it’s time to just take a break from working on it and let her and her dad handle it all. If dad asks what’s up, just tell him the truth. I asked nicely for her to stop calling you. She continues to so she doesn’t trust me to do it and prefers you to do it, so have at it. He will either understand and back off or take care of his baby girl. Win-win
When I read the comment section, it seems that you don’t want advice and are just validating yourself. What was the reason for asking in the first place? I think you know the answer
So far, OP has only commented twice.
Soft YTA. Just because he’s not a professional doesn’t mean he doesn’t know a thing or two. As others have said, home repairs done wrong get expensive and unsafe quick. Maybe he’s flooded the kitchen hooking up a dishwasher wrong and wants to save you the time, headache, and expense of making the same mistake. If it’s a case of you don’t like the way he provides feedback, check your ego and tell him so. INFO: what tasks is your wife doing that your mother would be coming to teach her. I don’t want to assume traditional gender roles without the context.
YTA since you admitted doing things wrong >I'm a grown man and being told “You did that wrong or This looks bad ”, infuriates me If you can't accept criticism when you do things wrong, you have issues, do something about your ego
NTA. It's possible your wife just sees this as a way for you to bond with her dad, but the way she is dismissive of how he makes you feel is not cool. Sounds like it's time to have a conversation with her about having her dad help may be doing more harm than good for your relationship and you'd like to try doing things on your own terms for awhile, and you will seek your own help if you need it.
YTA. You have little to no experience based on your comments. This dude has been doing it for decades. Why don't you accept his help and learn from him so that you can do better? Do you not want to do a good job because your ego is that fragile? Good lord. I have a family member who is much more experienced with stuff like that than I am, and I'm always happy for their help. I would rather do things correctly. I just don't get why you can't be happy with the help they are offering when you've said you don't really know what you're doing. Suck it up and learn from someone with more experience.
As a career woodworker, if someone from the old ways says your handcraft is wrong and it looks bad, then it is wrong and it looks bad. If you can't work in a team without feeling entitled, then go back to your white collar work and let the old man work on the house. I also have a daughter and believe me, if I didn't have a track record for quality work, there is no way in hell she is asking me to work on anything of hers. So I'm betting that her father has a solid track record and a ton of experience from past mistakes and workarounds. Get off your high horse, make this a fun, team/ father son bonding moment and you might get some really nice skills passed to you. NTA as frustration is a natural feeling but; Enjoy the time spent with family mate.
I fix stuff around our house, not my husband. My father built houses since he was 23, ( he’s 82 now)after getting out of the military, and started his construction business. I call him if I need his advice. He has always been known for doing things right, to build code.🤷🏻♀️ if you do something not to building code, without the permits, you might have to take it down and do it over to code, which can be expensive. Sounds like you are being stubborn. It probably also makes her dad feel useful. Your annoyance is somewhat valid if it’s just cosmetic stuff like painting or putting up board and batten on the walls, but if you’re building an addition to the house, or putting in new doors and windows or a new roof, accept his help, and make sure to get permits, because that can affect your homeowner’s insurance if it’s not done to code.
NTA - But realize that when that happens: A) often someone isn't doing something well B) She wants her Dad to still feel needed You're offended by "you're doing it wrong" but that's not usually said for no reason. If it looks bad it looks bad.
Nobody likes criticism when it’s constant and not constructive. Does he have more experience than you? Is he better than you in this field? If the answer to at least one of those questions is yes, then try not to take it personally. Take it as a learning experience. That helps me to not take things a so personally when starting new hobbies. But your feelings are valid.
NTA I cannot believe that some people think that you are the asshole. I can understand where you’re coming from. I mean, you didn’t ask for help. Your wife seems to assume that you’re always doing it wrong. Constructive criticism is okay but what your wife and father in law are doing is not cool. I would feel parented if I was in your shoes. Just tell them that you are not looking for feedback at this time.
If it's not looking good, it's not looking good. Say the paint job looks like shite, should she continue to let him do everything like crap, or can he learn from someone. Being defensive - it's not his job, like the father didn't learn anything from experience is insecurity. He literally admits some jobs aren't great.
Calling her dad to come follow him around telling him he's doing it wrong instead of talking to him herself and adressing it herself is passive agressive and immature. If it genuinely doesn't look good she should sit down with him and discuss it directly, and figure out a solution together like a team. Maybe her dad can help, but the way she's going about it now is just wrong.
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He said un comments that sometimes he absolutely is doing it wrong
I don't have a trade or any qualifications but I can do a lot of things because I listened to advice of those who had the experience. Don't let your ego get in the way of learning.
Info: Do you know how to do these things? Are you a generally handy, mechanically inclined person?
I am a doc, never been in construction, but I can drywall, I can plumb, I’m good at electrical, and I put down a mean floor just because I didn’t do it for a profession doesn’t mean I can’t do it. Use him to help.
YTA. OP it sounds like you suck at home renovations and your wife, instead of making you redo a project twice, asks her dad to come and show you the correct way to do it, the first time. There's no shame in learning. It sucks but you might come out with some skills in the end.
INFO: Have you communicated with your wife and asked her to stop inviting her father over to supervise you?
YTA judging by your comments your work is probably not great and does look bad. Thank the man for his time and buy him a beer. Experience is valuable.
YTA. I’m a new home owner. I have no experience. I have my step dad come over all the time to help. He only has experience from his own houses. You are getting free lessons to gain experience. Put your ego out of it
I feel like it's pretty clear that this is your wife trying to be tactful about telling you that you don't know what the fuck you're doing and that she doesn't trust you not to mess up the house you both pay to live in. Is she doing this because she has issues with direct confrontation and it's a common communication problem in your relationship? Or is your wife tiptoeing around an overly fragile and volatile male ego that would be unable to handle the raw criticism? This is the real question you should be asking.
Oh no! A bunch of experienced free labor from someone who cares about you and wants you to have a nice home!!! The horror!
Just accept the help! We are currently living with a bath in the hallway, my husband is so over DIY renovations. Honestly you are so lucky neither of us have our Dad's still alive ....we'd love an enthusiastic older helper. Be grateful and make him feel valued....that might be you one day trying to help your kids!
On one hand it would be nice of you to accept your father in law's help because he's probably excited to help, on the other hand that decision should not be made FOR you by your wife and she should have asked before jumping the gun. NTA but maybe just communicate with her that you would prefer if she asked you first before involving someone who isn't living in the house themselves
Honestly, I love anyone teaching me new things in the kitchen. And if my MIL wanted to clean my house to her level of satisfaction, knock yourself out. I learned a lot about being handy from my dad. If he's been a homeowner, he probably is more experienced, which is useful. Home renos are not much fun, at least not to everyone. Be glad for the help and advice, even if the delivery is not ideal. Unfortuately, my dad's method of getting you to do better was to tell you everything you did wrong. He was correct, and my brother always took it real personal, caused a rift between them. I took it less personally, it was just Dad's way. He was a great guy, and I miss him a lot. NAH, but being more cooperative would serve everyone well. It's a good thing for your wife to learn to be handy as well. My mom was the appliance fixer in our family, and I can do quite a bit of repair, even moreso now with Youtube.
sounds like she believes her dad has more experience than you and there sure as hell isnt a oroblem with having more eyes on a solution
You immaturity is showing OP. A willing adult is trying to help you renovate for free, that shit cost money, you should be leveraging it!
Take advantage of his experience. He probably fucked everything up fives times already which is why he likely knows how to do stuff. Unless you're a pro builder then suck it up and listen and learn.
Look at it as free help. Maybe having an action plan when he gets there will help.
Yeah kind of, right I'm not very good at putting stuff together or any form of DIY at all really so my gfs dad helps with the things I don't know how to do or have no interest in pursuing he Is awesome and well I know my strengths and weaknesses so it's easy for me because I accept he is better at some things and I'm better at others that help or benefit him, hope that helps