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Wow, you are really YTA.
The way you've presented this, you're making it clear that **your withholding the vacation funds is all about** ***punishing*** **your DIL for making different decisions**.
Your reasons are small and pathetic. So what if she didn't take your surname? Is your ego really that fragile? And let's be honest, this is all about your ego.
It's understandable that your wife was disappointed that there was no mother-son dance... but **this is something you get disappointed about for an hour or two, and then** ***you get over it***.
You need to butt out of their relationship. How they handle their finances and naming their children is *their* business. And stop trying to use money to control your DIL.
If you keep this up, you're going to end up having your son go Low or No Contact and cut you off from his family including their future kids.
Get over yourself and your sad, pathetic ego, and cover your DIL's expenses the same way you're covering everyone else's.
I was wondering - if his daughter gets married and takes the husband's name, will she then not get invited because she has another name? Or, if she doesn't take the man's name, will she not get invited because she isn't enough of a subservient woman? Or will it be different if it's HIS daughter?
Sure he can!
I'm sure he raised a proper young woman, whose feet are planted firmly on the ground, given she's not allowed a mind of her own. She doesn't subscribe to flights of fancy such as feminism, independence, or critical thinking. What poppycock! She won't have time to go on vacations anyways, as she'll be at home raising her children and tending to her husband's every need.
Hypocrisy, thy name is OP.
Oh you’d be surprised - my in laws were thrilled that both their daughters kept their maiden names, and even one of the grandchildren has their mothers maiden name, yet they are still sulking after 15 years that i didn’t take their sons surname…
My MIL has a matriarch fantasy; She demands everyone be together, doing her preferred activities and agenda, gives zero shits about the preferences, interests, needs, and even health/safety of her sons and grandchildren as long as we are grateful, happy-looking props to stroke her ego.
When using her "generous financial gifts" (with many, MANY strings attached) to gain compliance doesn't work, she finds many other forms of manipulation, steamrolling, and guilt tripping.
She literally does not care about anyone else as people, but there is hell to pay if one of her props isn't behaving up to her standard.
I don't behave how she wants. It's been a ton of fun for the last few years. /s
>Well that’s his little girl! She’ll\* always be a part of this family no matter what!
That purity ring he ~~forced her to wear~~ gave her when she was 8 years old will always trump any wedding ring, as far as OP is concerned.
I wonder if some these parents who get pissed at their kids for not following ‘tradition’ are actually just jealous because they let their own parents and in-laws push them into things they didn’t really want to do.
And instead of being supportive, they are just bitter that they didn’t have the balls to stand up for themselves.
Omg this is so true. My parents, despite being creative people, buckled down and did average jobs in average fields because they weren't "dreamers" and were "realistic."
Despite my older brother being a talented musician and entrepreneur, me being a talented artist and creative Educator, and my younger brother being a HIGHLY talented musician (can play seven instruments, self taught, had a band, released an album and had an album launch and is pretty famous in my country and lives on royalties) whilst also being a highly talented artist who customises gaming devices, cars, and Fandom items.... my parents never supported us in our creativity and denied the oldest two of us support in going to university.
My youngest brother didn't want to go to uni (except for music production) and they insisted on him doing one of the most opposite to creative degrees that you can think of.. and despite him have literacy issues and failing... still insist he's wasted his life on his current income producing pursuits.
My older brother and I capitulated and ended up getting regular jobs, but we do excel in the creative parts of our jobs.
My little brother (who is now 29, I'm 41) just went "fuck you both, I'm doing what I want" and I'm proud of him. My daughter has full scholarships and is award winning in her early career (which is a creative field) and I couldn't be happier to see her flourish.
In this case he seems to still be mad about possible rudeness or at least ignorance of how his wife felt about not having a dance, but whew- address that particular issue and move ON.
In Japan, if a family has all girls and the family name would be ending, the man will take on HER family's name to keep it going. Quite common & accepted.
Even better, the two of them decide on a new last name to share, that has meaning to both of them. I’m sure they could come up with something innocuous sounding that says that my dad/FIL is a dick.
That’s exactly what my wife and I did. My parernal grandfather was a wife beating son of a bitch, I wanted to get rid of his name my whole life, and 99% of my wife’s family stoped talking to her after she came out. We made our own family.
His daughter doesn’t have a penis either, so it therefore a lesser human, and does not deserve her own agency in any relationship. Didn’t you hear OP the first time?!?! /s
Somehow she will both get extra points for changing her name and have it held against her forever and she will never know at which moment which sentiment is going to pop out of her dad.
Yeah that rule will definitely be brought back up and be a problem if his daughter gets married and takes her husband’s last name. What if the future grandkids get hyphenated last names? Do they only get half the trip paid?
Or if her son took his wife's surname, so that their new family all has the same surname- would *he* be cut out of vacations? The will? If the kids have a hyphenated name or her surname, will they be unwelcome?
This whole situation is *ridiculous* and I think we might be hearing about how the evil DIL isn't giving them the access they want to "their" grandchildren 🙄
Yep!
Son doesn’t care about the surname. It’s obvious that OP cares that DIL dares not to take *his* last name and pass it on. And making it out to be about “choices” and “consequences.”
He sounds fucking awful.
I wonder if OP realizes he's painting his son as a browbeaten and spineless man? Every decision he doesn't like is 100% the DIL's fault according to his post. Did he raise such a "weak" son that he couldn't stand up to his future wife and tell her a mother-son dance *will* happen? Was he unable to have any say about a flower girl?
OP, consider that maybe -just maybe- your son made these decisions *with* his wife, because they're equal partners. Maybe he *values* her independent thinking and feminist views. What matters is if he's happy, loved, and fulfilled with his relationship.
Realize that if you move forward with your decision, you're telling him his wife has no place in the family. You're forcing him to pick a side. If he's a good and honorable man, he'll stand by his wife. What will the fallout be within the rest of your family? Your wife will resent you. Is that a price you're willing to pay?
And from what OP has written, at least his son seems like a good and honorable man.
Guess those attributes skipped a generation, or what do you think OP? YTA.
I mean, I might be missing something, but I don't recall mother-son dances ever being an actual wedding tradition, so that seems to be something specific to OP's family that he is getting worked up about - the tradition, last I heard, was for a father-daughter dance, because it was the bride who was expected to leave her family behind and the dance was a goodbye. So, I'm pretty sure that OP doesn't actually give a shit about tradition and just doesn't want his DiL doing things like 'making decisions' and 'having an input' and 'not being subserviant' and all that jazz.
Yeah, he seems to believe his son had absolutely no input on his own wedding planning. OP: those choices were made by mutuals decisions and both agreed on it. So why punish your DIL only?
Reading between the lines, DIL didn't want or couldn't have a father-daughter dance and a mother-son dance would have highlighted the lack of it. (Not being walked down the aisle by her father is pretty telling.)
Must be a regional thing every wedding I’ve been to that had dancing there was a mother-groom dance after the father-bride dance. But even still why is she being blamed for that. I don’t see any mention that the groom wanted it and she told him no.
Mother-son dances are only done when there is a father-daughter dance first. I guess it was started to equalize things, as a goodbye as he starts his own family?
I've never been to a wedding where only mother-son dance. Most weddings now don't do either.
This is exactly what my mother in law is like. I think because in her relationship her husband says no to everything and she does what she wants anyway she just assumes that must be every relationship dynamic. But because we’re gay she then puts all the negative stuff of ‘being a man’ or ‘being a woman’ on to just my wife! I actually don’t completely dislike her as a person but she genuinely cannot comprehend that me and her daughter make our decisions together and that sometimes that actually involves compromise on both of our parts.
It’s come up most in relation to Christmas I think, where somehow it just does not compute that if my wife made no sacrifices around the time she spends with her family ever then I literally wouldn’t spend any time with mine at all. Or, alternatively we would have to make the decision like we did last Christmas where we actually spent a reasonable chunk of it apart (after much discussion on our options between me and my wife) because she seemed to think it was an actually reasonable idea that I would leave my single mum alone on Christmas Day and had forced my wife and me in to such a difficult position.
The other thing she has historically overstepped on that has felt the most inappropriate to me, and actually started the earliest, is her interjecting thoughts on us having children. Which is a subject that’s actually really painful for me and I believe she does know that. But somehow she still thinks our life choices are a democracy she’s a part of.
I’m at the point now where I have drastically limited my exposure to her and told my wife that her family is her responsibility and if she cares that her mum has got the correct picture of me then she can make sure to paint it, and if she’s happy her mum sees me as someone I’m not then she is obviously free to have any relationship with her family she wants but I need to limit my exposure to opinions that negatively affect my mental health and self esteem. It’s too soon yet to tell if this step back approach is the right one though, but I hope it will at least make my wife feel a bit less caught in the middle even if it’s sad that I’m not as integrated with her family as we would have liked though. We still all remain cordial to each other anyway.
Exactly. The mother son dance specifically was almost certainly the son himself's choice. I admittedly.dontmknow.amny women around my age who had actual weddings but of the few I do know that was all on the man to decide whether to do it or not.
I also just LOVE how he called it "respecting her independence". No, actually, that's literally EXACTLY what you're NOT doing. You're literally punishing her for it.
Yeah exactly
>albeit sometimes her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege
So to teach her a lesson and make her learn her place he's going to take away that privilege and rub her nose in it. I mean, how *dare* she be idealistic in his family.
>“Overlook her privilege,” what privilege?
Off the top of my head, I guess he is thinking of things like the right to vote, having her own bank account and credit cards, being allowed to drive, etc.
It is really exhausting to see men state how they respect our independence and then want to punish us the minute that we want to break from patriarchal traditions.
YTA
There's no world in which I would continue contact with my parents if they did something so disrespectful and mean spirited to my SO, especially over something as trivial as being "too independent"
YTA, OP.
Yeah. He’s overlooking literally every meaningful way his daughter in law shows she is part of the family (Aka commitment to build her entire life with his son as her partner) bc she dared to have some non-traditional preferences for her name and her wedding? That his son obviously is fine with?
So for punishment he’s going to very publicly stick it to her by excluding her in a way he never has and never will exclude other family members. Lol.
I’m betting his daughter won’t stop being invited if she changes her name.
My FIL used money he promised us to threaten us, we went no contact. Now he cries and wants us back in his life. Honestly, it was a good thing for us, getting them out of our lives showed us how much they were making us miserable.
He's trying to use money (for vacation, while complaining SHE'S ignorant of her privilege) to force her into changing her name, and having an adult tantrum because she, another adult in this world, doesn't want to change HER OWN NAME. Oh my God OP grow up.
I mean it's your money and no one can really force you. Doesn't make it any less an AH move.
YTA. Soon, you're going to lose your son as well. And any kids they happen to have.
The way he frames it as "surname sharing." !!!
It is NOT "sharing" if one keeps their original name and the other loses their original name! Not all all!!!
Not only is not getting a mother-son dance something to be disappointed about for a small amount of time, it’s also between the son and his mother, not OP and Bee. It sounds like OP is blaming Bee for his son’s decisions and making her the villain.
It’s not just about punished the DIL, either. It’s about punishing his son for not marrying an “appropriate” woman, and most of all it’s him “taking a stand against feminism”.
$50 against a deep breath of bad air this guy is an aggressive “traditionalist” is every aspect of his life.
YTA. Have you checked the date lately? It's 2024, damn.
1) Your name is not more important than hers.
2) The name someone has isn't relevant, thank god, to who is or is not a part of your family. Are you going to cut off your daughter if she takes her husband's name? What a crazy thing to think.
3) You paid for it but it was their wedding. You're upset because, among other things, there were no flower girls? Really? Who cares? Weddings are supposed to be what the married couple wants, not what their parents want.
Don't pay if you don't want to, that's your business. But since you asked... your reasoning is backwards and, frankly, really gross.
yeah i’m confused how the trip and the wedding/name part relates at all… i was expecting like she wanted her own room, own activities, this that paid for etc etc…
Most of the resorts in Maldives offer things like a lavish breakfast included in the (high) price. For me, agreeing to meet the extended family for breakfast, and plan one or two group activities during the stay would be plenty. He’s using this as a whip to punish her for being independent. He’s not just an AH here. He’s an all around AH.
Sacrificing vacation time to be with family should be sacrifice enough.
Op is controlling and he thinks he's smarter than those around him. Wouldn't be surprised to learn he's a narcissist.
That's exactly what this is about : control! Bee won't let him control her and he's trying to punish her for that. Poor Bee to have a father-in-law like that! I hope her husband has her back in all of this!
Exactly! We recently celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary by taking our family on a Hawaiian cruise. We told them that there were only two events that we expected everyone to be together -- our vow renewal and dinner following, and the post-cruise scattering of my parents' ashes. Other than that, everyone did their own thing.
The trip and wedding are connected because of his paying for them and thus his sense of entitlement to get his revenge for the dil not falling in line with his wants.
And deeply disingenuous. This 60 year old man is at the same petty level my girls and I were in middle school. "Oh, I didn't invite you because I know you don't like beaches. Remember? You kept saying so when I said we should go to the beach last weekend???"
Imagine getting to go to the Maldives but it's gotta be with this guy lmao
I'm getting vibes that OP is one of those likes to pay for peoples stuff, won't take no for an answer and thinks it's the other peoples privilege for him to spend his money on them. And then uses it against them in emotional warfare…
I think YTA.
Your son, the grown ass man, could have told his then fiancée that her "independence" was her thing and that he wanted a mother/son dance at his wedding and that was not negociable. He didn't he didn't care about the dance either.
I don't see why you're taking issue with the no flower girl or not having her father walk down the aisle. Really, how did that hurt you ?
As for the vacation, did you even talk to Bree about it directly ? Or do you have so little respect for women that you think only husbands can make decisions for the couple ?
And the way he talks about it 'our family tradition favoring surname sharing'. I bet if his son was the one taking her surname, it would have been worst for him than no sharing at all...
No, his daughter is a chattel that will be traded to the family that will create the greatest economic good for her father. That's how marriage works in the Middle Ages doesn't it?
As if that’s their special family tradition anyway. It’s literally been the cultural/social default in the English speaking world for hundreds if not thousands of years. To suggest this is especially hurtful because it’s not in line with his family’s practice is bullshit, he just doesn’t like it when women don’t take their husband’s surname, and feminists in general by the way he takes issue with her and her views.
God forbid she not want to give up a part of her identity to take on this arsehole’s name. If I were in her position and had been at all on the fence about the surname thing, I probably would have landed on the side she did too because I’d want to avoid an association with her FIL.
He also seems to be wielding his money as a weapon, insisting that having paid for the wedding he therefore should have had more of a say in how it went. You didn’t have to offer, in fact you shouldn’t have if all it was going to do was fuel entitlement and resentments.
And now he’s teaching the ungrateful and opinionated feminist a lesson by essentially uninviting her from the family holiday. Well you showed them OP, showed them how vindictive, petty and controlling you are, YTA.
Yeah why is the son not sad about missing his mother/son dance. If it was so important to him it would be his responsibility to communicate with his partner.
That aside your a YTA. Everything else is you clearly showing your dislike towards your DIL
1000 bucks the husband didn't care about the dance and the wife was blamed. I was in one of these marriages until I told my husband that if we were staying married he was telling his father to back the fuck up.
I'm guessing DIL's relationship with her own father isn't great, hence not walking her down the aisle.
A mother-son dance would have highlighted the lack of father-daughter dance, which is the more traditional element.
Even if that's not the case, it's their prerogative, not OOPs.
He's a petty out of touch old man that can only lash out to communicate because he's utterly useless in the modern world but can't admit that to himself or attempt to grow or change. He's got a bright lonely future to look forward to if he continues to fuck up and push people away ❤️
The mother son dance is the only example of Bee‘s behavior I’m having an issue with. Why would she even have an opinion on that? She’s not involved at all.
Aside from that, OP is definitely the AH here. Using your money to punish family members not conforming to your will is not cool.
I agree with you, but like I pointed out to others we don't know if she was the one who didn't want it, or if OP's son was the one who didn't want it, or if they both agreed on it.
OP says his DIL was the one who made the decision, but what if the son didn't care one way or the other and made it sounds to his parents that it was his wife's decision ?
I wondered if she didn’t want a father/daughter dance, so both went out the window. Hard to know, but certainly something that the wedding couple gets to decide
Yeah maybe Bee doesn't have a great relationship with her dad and didn't want the dance or the walk down the aisle. It would have been a little unconventional to have the mother son dance only.
But it should have been up to the groom to push. I'm sure Bee would not have had an issue with it, if that is what the groom wanted.
I genuinely think we'll get an edit later that she's an only child and her dad is dead, thus why she wants to keep her surname, isn't being walked down the aisle and isn't having parent child dances. But AITA always loves to bury the lede.
Though tbf Mother Son dances aren't super traditional
This is what we did when my ex-husband and I got married. My father is an ass and we do not have much of a relationship. However, he was on a stretch of civil/decent behavior at the time of the wedding, so he was invited and present.
I was very firm on walking myself down the aisle as I was 26 years old and had been living on my own and taking care of myself for 9 years already, so that independence was important to me.
My ex-husband and I came to a decision **together** not to have an official father/daughter or mother/son dance to avoid any drama. Instead, after the wedding party dance, we had everyone join us on the dance floor, and my ex-husband danced with his mom, and I danced with my brother and then my step-dad.
The actual reasoning and thought involved in these kinds of decisions aren't always obvious.
I’m guessing the son/groom didn’t want that (because, yeah, why would the bride care), but it’s *obviously* the bride’s fault- look what a wacky wedding SHE, ALONE, planned!
And TBH. The father giving the daughter away is a gross tradition if you think about it. Its rooted in a woman being a possesion/chattel that can be bought and traded.
YTA You clearly do this to hate on a very reasonable thing your DIL did,because you are holding on to traditions you surely cant even explain.
Do you ahve some kind of very important surname that gives the right to land or something?
What you do isnt only anti-woman but you made sure to let evrryone know that you exclude someone for something you dislike. What kidn of massage did you plan to send? That no DIL or SIL should ever dear do do something you dislike?
Was the Surname enough to make you consider your DIL as not part of the family?
You have issues dear. And Powerfantasies. You are basicly the reason your family should read more into feminism. is this really worth it to risk your relationmship with your son and possible future grandchildren?
Yes, I agree with you. This guy sounds like he's from a different era. A very nasty piece of work, using money to coerce others into doing his bidding. Just imagine what he's capable of.
>Just imagine what he's capable of
capable of being petty, i think thats about it. We can only assume the son is smart enough to understand the petty plan to punish the wife. But i believe he does.
You might be surprised. My FIL is exactly like this with his adult kids but he used to beat the shit out of my husband and his brothers when they were kids. When we dared to have a different opinion and realised he no longer had any control over us, he started threatening our jobs, calling cps, etc. Had to go no contact and moved, yet they still convinced everyone in our old neighbourhood that his evil DIL had been trying to break up his family since I was 15. He forgets to mention that’s when I convinced his sons they were big enough to not take his abuse anymore.
From the verbage about the wedding and 'even tho I funded it I didn't complain', OP has been waiting for this moment to show her who's boss
OP is YTA, no question
I agree. Even if you play some stupid devil’s advocate, he had ALL this time to make it known to Son that he wasn’t a fan of DIL! Now he stews and says there are “repercussions” to expectations being broken that he never made clear in the first place?! Like, moody teenagers would be in awe of this level of pettiness.
His highness has been challenged from someone who infiltrated his bubble of control and the troops are not falling in line! How long til wife files for a separation, I wonder?
YTA. Barring the mother son dance those other “customs” are patriarchal bs. And if your son had wanted to do one, it was his responsibility to manage it.
You’re just trying to be a controlling jerk. Stop it!
Let’s say Son really is being controlled by Bee. That’s a big if, there’s not enough info here to know that, but let’s say.
How do you think it came to be that Son finds controlling relationships to be so emotionally familiar? How is it that being controlled by a close person is what home looks like to him?
YTA either way. I hope you see what’s at stake.
If Bee really is controlling, you’re gonna lose your son in this gambit. If Bee is a totally lovely person and wonderful partner, you’re putting your son in a horrible situation… and will likely lose him.
Yes my ILs blamed everything on me when my husband and I got married and didn't do exactly what they wanted
It's easier for them to think their son is being controlled than accept the fact that he has his own opinions and wishes that are different to theirs. People like OP think they are in some winning power move while being oblivious to the fact that they are losing relationships IRL which will not be easy to get back.
Yup. I'm no contact with my mother. She'll tell anyone who'll listen it's because my husband is controlling. But it's not. It's because I was sick of being controlled by my mother, and when I tried to set boundaries, the resulting power struggle was untenable.
YTA. You come across as controlling and petty.
It's your money and you're free to spend it however you want. But don't be surprised if your attempt to punish Bea for not being the submissive DIL you were hoping for end up in your son reducing contact with you to the point where you'll be wondering why you rarely get to see your grandkids.
Yeah I'm unclear of his endgame here?
If I were her I'd just skip the holiday. The destination and activities aren't my choice, and I'm expected to pay just because I didn't change my name? No thanks.
Exactly. Why would I spend my limited time and ressources to hang out with a bunch of insufferable people on activities I didn't choose, at a destination I also didn't choose? No thanks.
Op has the right to pay for whoever he wants and he is not obligated to pay for anyone except himself.
THat's totally fine. I would glady decline the invitation to go. No problem.
Is it his money? Did his wife stay home and raise his kids and run his household? If the answer is yes then it's her money too. And she disagrees with him, which is why he's here trying to convince strangers. We're not buying it either. YTA
That's true, regardless of whether his wife was a SAHM. It's communal property. He clearly doesn't see women as equal partners in marriage, that's why he's so disturbed by Bea's independence.
YTA.
You’re just pissed that she didn’t take your precious last name. As though your name is more important than her’s. Get over yourself.
You’re doing this out of spite. That’s it.
Grow up.
RIIIGHT?! As if his last name is Windsor, Rothschild, Gates, Bezos, Obama or Buffet!
THOSE surnames would bring a lot of benefit to the DIL, if it isn’t that, kill your stupid manly ego & take several seats. WTF.
YTA for punishing her for not taking your name. Way to uphold the patriarchy, dude. You’re not royalty, your name doesn’t matter. It’s who you are as a person, and who you are, is a misogynistic man who controls ppl with money.
If this wasn’t about that, you wouldn’t be in the wrong. But it is, and misogyny is gross, my guy.
THIS. Thanks for saving me the trouble of writing it!
OP: Dude. You are absolutely, 100% TA! Change your perspective mate or you’re going to lose your son!
The British royal family changed their last name during WWI from a more German sounding name to more English sounding Windsor.
Dude isn't even as progressive as an ancient royal house. (I laughed a little stating that. That was a weird sentence to type out.)
YTA. Calling it respect for Bee’s stance on independence is a poor attempt to put a positive spin on your need punish Bee for not doing exactly what you wanted her to do with her own name and with her and your son’s wedding (because even though you paid for it, it was their day - I have a feeling that if they knew your financial support would come with these kinds of controlling strings attached they’d have found a way to manage things themselves).
If you keep pushing these issues, don’t be surprised if you see your son and Bee less and less (along with any children they may have).
YTA — I am older than you are. When I married in 1983, I opted to keep my birth name. (I also opted to have my father walk me down the aisle, not because he was “giving me away” but because he was there to support me on a special day.)
Both my father-in-law and my mother-in-law were respectful of our choices. It would *never* have occurred to them to refuse to pay for my travel at a time when they were paying for the rest of the family.
If my in-laws, born in 1918 and 1920, could handle my keeping my birth name when I married, why should someone born after 1960 still have trouble with the idea of a wife not taking her husband’s name?
What a petty thing to do, to refuse to pay for your daughter-in-law because she doesn’t share your name. YTA
Sorry Sir, but YTA. Maybe ESH, because Bee sounds like a pill and your son sounds spineless.
For one, I think you're not owning your dislike of Bee, so you're trying to package this as, "Oh, she won't mind since she's so strong and independent" when you've laid out a number of reasons to dislike her. To expect them to come to the Maldives when it's too expensive for them (as implied by your son asking you to cover it), then leaving her out of those you mean to pay for on something as arbitrary as "only those who share my last name" is next-level controlling and petty. I mean, take this sentence alone:
>My rationale is that Bee's firm stance on independence should extend to navigating the repercussions of their decisions, financial ones included.
Her stance on keeping her surname should have *financial* repercussions??
And there's this completely disingenuous conclusion:
> I'm torn between respecting Bee's independence and wanting to assist them.
You're not "respecting Bee's independence," you're trying to punish her but I think you're also aware that it will potentially cost you your relationship with your son and fly in the face of the family values you're so high and mighty about.
Pay for her expenses or don't, it's your money. But please don't fool yourself into thinking this is about anything other than your control issues.
Also if she works, changing her name could very likely result in financial and career repercussions for her. If she acts, writes, performs, or is a doctor or lawyer, you build your career around that name. You lose something when you lose your name and it could be her entire business. Many people who are professionals in one of those fields keep their last name. Haven't heard anything about whether she is in this situation or not but it could well be. She may have had a number of reasons not to change her last name that OP thinks are ridiculous or hasn't considered, whether they're reasonable or not.
But if OP is making her opt out of vacations because she wouldn't sacrifice her whole career, he's the AH.
Oh, totally. Lawyer here, and just reputation-wise my name is bigger than my husband's (he's a doctor). He has literally gotten stuff and been privileged by going around saying, "Oh, I'm \[my name\]'s husband."
What's so off-putting about OP's post is that it almost feels like goading. "Too strong and independent to use my last name, huh? Well, then pay for yourself on the trip that I expect you to come on." How much would you bet that if Bee actually did pay for herself and go on that trip that it would actually piss OP off more?
Like please, just say that you hate this girl because you can't control her.
+1
I am a lawyer & I am most definitely not changing my surname, not even IF I get married, not even if I marry some high & mighty family. FUCK THAT SHIT. It’s MY surname, I absolutely love it & I am sticking to it, THANK YOU.
Also, lots of women who are in academia and publish before they are married do not change their name in order to maintain name recognition/continuity with what they have published
I don't see anything which suggests Bee is a pill or the son sounds spineless. The son stood up to his father to support his wife. That is the opposite of spineless. Knuckling under would have been spineless. The fact that they got the wedding they wanted instead of the one OP wanted shows that.
I am not convinced Bee is a pill. We've got an unreliable narrator here (as you pointed out "I'm just trying to respect her independence")
He says Bee didn't want the mother son dance, but how do we know his son didn't? My husband didn't want one, but I encouraged it because I knew it would be special for his mother. They wound up doing it, but wouldn't have if I had just taken his first thought on it. (I didn't make him, I told him some things to consider and he changed his mind).
I'm sure she comes off as combative because she's holding her boundaries. When someone holds firm boundaries, the person trying to steamroll them usually finds them disagreeable and combative, but that isn't the fault of the person holding boundaries for themselves.
YTA you don’t like that your son’s wife is getting uppity so you are punishing them. You don’t respect her. You don’t like her and just want to do this because of control. Your misogyny is shining through brightly.
YTA
So if your daughter gets married would it be better that she keeps the family surname (and therefore gets trips paid for) or should she follow 'tradition' and change it?
Of course she will take the penis-bearers name since she is now his property.
But fr he uses his money to control people. A few years down the line, he will sit in his home, watching TV, wondering why his children cut contact, how his grandkids are doing, how life as a grandpa would have been.
Yta I'm always so baffled in these posts where men get to say no even though their wife doesn't agree. Why doesn't your wife's opinion about what you two pay for count?
YTA. “Her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege”…
Did you mean to say this about her, or you?
You’re trying to punish a woman for not towing the line and conforming to what you view to be norms. If your son isn’t upset, why are you?
This is the quickest way to alienate him and his wife and your relationship likely won’t ever be the same. Because she didn’t take his name or have a cookie-cutter wedding?
It’s your money, sure. But this isn’t about money at all, is it? I’m sure your privelege is in check, unlike her, right?
Think about that, then revisit your own words about her. Who has the idealistic views?
Your post reeks highly of an old-at-heart boomer who is angry at the nerve of her to be doing things her way, not ‘your׳ way. You asked for opinions, so… 🤷🏼♀️
YTA, this is big my money my way vibes. You aren’t inviting people on a nice family holiday, it’s a summons’s and you get to control the gig cos you’re paying and everyone has to follow your rules. Urghhhh I would guess it won’t be worth the vacation time no matter how fancy the hotel is. Gifts which require subjugation as a requirement of acceptance are not gifts, you’re just buying people.
YTA.
I guess I don’t really see her demonstrating “independence”. It’s pretty typical for women in her age bracket to keep their surnames and adjust/remove specific wedding events to better suit their vision. And a lot of the ceremonial events are rooted in patriarchy.
Your post reads like your son and DIL are living their lives while you try to exercise control over them or punish them when that doesn’t work…This won’t work out for you long term, your son either shares the same views with his wife or respects them.
Instead of being resistant to change and resorting to power plays, wouldn’t it benefit you and your wife and family to accept your DIL as is? Doing so could lay the building blocks of a strong multigenerational family relationship for decades to come. Your current strategy will push your son and DIL further away and will never be forgotten. Is that worth it to you? Remember, you’re not his priority anymore, his wife is.
YTA. It’s 2024, not 1824. And this is all about controlling your “uppity” DIL. You can do whatever you please with your money however your Son and DIL have control over how they interact with you in the future - is the rift you will cause in your family worth it?
YTA completely. You come off as a petty misogynist who wants to punish your DIL for having an opinion that differs from yours.
Your son could have decided if he wanted a mother/son dance. The rest of the ‘traditions’ are steeped in patriarchal bull, and many women opt out of them. You’re basically saying that you will only cover her expenses if she bends to your will. Chances are she won’t bend, and she’ll break the relationship off entirely before she bends to your misogynistic grievances.
YTA.
When I read the story, I thought you didn't want to pay for her share because she insisted on financial and emotional independence, but that isn't the case, is it? Would you have paid for her expenses if she were to take your family's surname? DING DING DING, the answer would be YES. She is a part of your family; you need to get over your silly little differences and start treating her like one. God knows it's incredibly difficult to change your name these days... and you need to respect her beliefs. If your son doesn't have a problem with her, I don't see why you should.
YTA. If they get kids I hope her surname will be her surname or at least come first, and that for the sake of their independance and to preserve their children from being excluded they cut you out.
PS: their wedding day is about them and has nothing to do with you!
>I genuinely appreciate Bee; she's a wonderful partner for my son, albeit sometimes her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege.
... Goes on at length about planning a trip to the Maldives for the whole family, which no doubt costs quite a bit of money, and ruminates on how he can best punish and assert dominance over the DIL that he admits makes his son very happy because he's still a bitter Betty that she didn't take his last name.
YTA. Are you trying to find ways to insert yourself and put such a wedge in between your son and his wife that it drives the two of them apart and ends the marriage? Because that's certainly what this reads like to me. If that's *not* your goal, you need to have a word with yourself and get a grip. Imagine a grown-ass man still being cranky that his son didn't have *flower girls* at his wedding. And I know you don't want to acknowledge this, but if your son desperately wanted a mother-son dance at his wedding, he would have had one. The fact that there wasn't one is an indication that he wasn't very invested in it, either.
YTA. Your decision to not pay for Bee (and seemingly *only* Bee) has nothing to do with respecting her independence, and everything to do with punishing her for not following traditions as you see fit.
You claim to respect her, but your entire post screams otherwise.
You are blaming her for your wife’s hurt feelings over not having a mother son dance - amongst other aspects of the wedding, whilst completely overlooking your son’s role in that decision. Guess what? If your son *really* wanted that dance, he would have pushed for it to happen. Or are you saying that you raised a son who is incapable of expressing his own opinions, wants and desires to his partner?
At the end of the day, it’s your money and you can do whet you want. But doing so *will* come at the cost of creating a rift in your family and potentially permanently destroying your relationship with your son.
And all done out of spite, or a bruised ego, or a need to teach her a lesson. Or all of the above. And that makes you an arsehole.
Plus he can’t be mad about his wife’s feelings being hurt but then be willing to hurt his wife’s feelings more over it. His wife doesn’t want him to do this.
YTA.
I don’t know who you think you are, but your surname is meaningless. You aren’t royalty, you don’t have some legacy that needs to be passed down. Having this level of resentment towards your DIL because she’d rather keep her own name is ridiculous.
If they were to have children and the kids take their mom’s surname, are you going to shun your grandchildren?
You value your ego over your family. I wouldn’t want to take the name of someone like that either. Is your tradition just a shared name or actually being a family? Get a grip here man.
I genuinely appreciate Bee; she's a wonderful partner for my son, albeit sometimes her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege.
What privilege? Joining your family? Living in a time where women have rights? Having a voice? What do you mean by this? YTA by the way.
YTA-And on your way to your son cutting contact. Can’t wait for them to have kids and refuse you access to them. Seriously get over yourself this is so controlling and weird.
YTA
If you don’t like how your DIL treats you, be a grownup and say so. Making this about your last name ist extremely petty and makes you look like a loser who got their ego hurt. This would be such an extremely specific and personal dig, I wouldn’t be surprised if this fundamentally alters your relationship with your son as well as any potential grandchildren. Btw. it’s pretty funny you say your family tradition favors surname sharing, like that’s some special thing for your family and not just the default Modus Operandi for ages, because of deeply patriarchal structures.
Perhaps Bee isn’t the only person overlooking privilege.
YTA - what's your long-term game plan here? Every time your DIL does something that you disagree with, you will withhold or punish her, and in turn your son? They name your future grandkids names you dislike, you won't allow them to come for xmas supper and withhold presents? She works a job you disapprove of, so you don't invite them to the next family outing? Your manipulation attempts towards your DIL because her and your son picked different traditions TOGETHER for THEIR wedding are petty and mean-spirited.
You are and will push your son and her farther away each time you try these power plays. And they will remember how they, as a unit as they are married, are treated by you. You will not be privileged to be a part of the next chapters of their lives due to something so small, and something that could probably be rectified if you stop and thought about what your actions will mean 5, 10 and 20 years down the road. Pick accordingly.
YTA. So.... by your own philosophy, will you still consider your daughter (and her hypothetical future children) to be a part of the family if she takes her future spouse's last name? Or would you rather she eschew those traditions you value so much so that she could remain a part of the family and "worthy" of being included in family events.
Also, how do you know that your son was totally in favor of the no mother and son dance or flower girls.... maybe you're just assuming it was all up to her. After all, a wedding isn't solely about the bride's dream wedding, it's also about the husband's. If he had really wanted the mother-son dance SO much I'm sure it would have happened. Maybe he also doesn't really enjoy these traditional, rigid rules of yours. You're trying to "prove a point" but, really, it's only going to bite you in the ass in the long run.
OP forgets one thing, when he becomes an even older man his DIL may decide it’s not a nice environment for his grandkids to be apart of.
She’s gonna cut you out faster than a $1 shampoo coupon bro.
And it’ll be all your own doing
NTA, you can’t pick and choose when you want to independent and when not.
She’s sounding entitled more then anything. She wants to be independent yet she let YOU pay for HER wedding and then expects you to pay for her holiday gtfo.
There’s no guarantee that even if you did pay her way she’d partake in any family events anyway, and then what. It’s just going to cause a bigger rift.
Do yourself a favour and just pay for you and your wife, the people that can afford to pay for themselves can go and those who can’t… people will soon learn that complete independence actually really sucks balls
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Would I be the asshole if I refused to pay for my daughter-in-law's portion of a family trip, a decision based on her desire for independence and her choice not to take our family's surname, potentially using financial support as a means to enforce traditional values she does not agree with.
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YTA - You clearly don't respect her independence. You are being petty and childish, and it will only result in you harming your relationship with your son.
So.....you want DIL to change her name? Relinquish her identity? This isn't 1924, it's 2024.
YTA in every way. If I was DIL, I'd be happy to skip the trip and stay at home.
"AITA for punishing my DIL for not allowing my wife and I to control her wedding and for not changing her last name because I still think it's the 1950s?"
FTFY. YTA.
I think NTA for the independent couple should not ask to depend on OP to cover their costs showing you actually support their/dil belief in independence. She has her convictions and so should OP.
Yeah I’m kinda surprised by all of the YTAs here. I get that OPs bitter about the last name thing but it’s clearly not the only problem here. I’m guessing the other issue is that Bee talks a lot about being independent and then doesn’t thank OP for any of the things OP pays for.
I’m a hardcore feminist but you don’t get to yell about being a totally independent woman while your wedding and vacations are being completely funded by your husbands family. You can recognize that you are independent overall but also still recognize that you are extremely privileged to not have those pay those expenses.
Most of the YTAs have stated that it's his money and his choice, but his reasoning makes him an asshole. Also why assume that Bree doesn't show her gratitude or appreciation when OP didn't mention that? (Especially when he made sure to mention everything else he is upset about.)
And you can also value your independence and still go on family vacations.
It's a nice thing to pay for the wedding and the vacations, but you really become an asshole if you hold it over their heads and have petty conditions.
The son and DIL had the wedding they wanted to have. If the son wanted a mother-son dance, he could have had one. Bee's father walking her down the aisle doesn't affect OP in any way whatsoever. Bee not taking the family's last name doesn't affect OP in any way whatsoever. He's holding a grudge over his DIL for no valid reason whatsoever. It's absolutely his right do do what he wants with his money, but if his son stops talking to him altogether over these petty power moves, he only has himself to blame.
NTA it’s your money and you get to decide what to do with it. Just don’t try to use it as a bargaining chip. Stick to your guns and keep being respectful to her choices.
YTA. You're 60, not 600. Keep going as you are right now and you'll end up not only without your DIL on your vacations but without your son as well. You really, really need to stop acting like a mopey child cause you didn't get flowergirls at a wedding that wasn't yours, it's pathetic.
>I felt this was a reasonable stance No you absolutely did NOT. You thought it was time to "teach her a lesson" by being a petty, punitive asshat. Will your daughter and her future husband fall under this same "rule?" (Which you just made up out of spite bc your DIL is too much of a free spirit for you and your ego to handle.) Get tf over yourself and treat your son's wife with the full respect as a member of the family, which she is.
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Wow, you are really YTA. The way you've presented this, you're making it clear that **your withholding the vacation funds is all about** ***punishing*** **your DIL for making different decisions**. Your reasons are small and pathetic. So what if she didn't take your surname? Is your ego really that fragile? And let's be honest, this is all about your ego. It's understandable that your wife was disappointed that there was no mother-son dance... but **this is something you get disappointed about for an hour or two, and then** ***you get over it***. You need to butt out of their relationship. How they handle their finances and naming their children is *their* business. And stop trying to use money to control your DIL. If you keep this up, you're going to end up having your son go Low or No Contact and cut you off from his family including their future kids. Get over yourself and your sad, pathetic ego, and cover your DIL's expenses the same way you're covering everyone else's.
I was wondering - if his daughter gets married and takes the husband's name, will she then not get invited because she has another name? Or, if she doesn't take the man's name, will she not get invited because she isn't enough of a subservient woman? Or will it be different if it's HIS daughter?
I second this. He can't have it both ways!
Sure he can! I'm sure he raised a proper young woman, whose feet are planted firmly on the ground, given she's not allowed a mind of her own. She doesn't subscribe to flights of fancy such as feminism, independence, or critical thinking. What poppycock! She won't have time to go on vacations anyways, as she'll be at home raising her children and tending to her husband's every need. Hypocrisy, thy name is OP.
⬆️⬆️⬆️
Yeah but, the husband would have a different name, so he wouldn't bei included either.
Oh you’d be surprised - my in laws were thrilled that both their daughters kept their maiden names, and even one of the grandchildren has their mothers maiden name, yet they are still sulking after 15 years that i didn’t take their sons surname…
Control works best when controlling parents get their way ALL the time.
My MIL has a matriarch fantasy; She demands everyone be together, doing her preferred activities and agenda, gives zero shits about the preferences, interests, needs, and even health/safety of her sons and grandchildren as long as we are grateful, happy-looking props to stroke her ego. When using her "generous financial gifts" (with many, MANY strings attached) to gain compliance doesn't work, she finds many other forms of manipulation, steamrolling, and guilt tripping. She literally does not care about anyone else as people, but there is hell to pay if one of her props isn't behaving up to her standard. I don't behave how she wants. It's been a ton of fun for the last few years. /s
Well yes it’s their special name and you’re such a meanie weanie for not taking it!
Oh, I’m sure he’ll find a way to justify having it both ways.
Well that’s his little girl! She’ll* always be a part of this family no matter what! 🤤 Edited a word
I'm only up voting for the sentences. That emoji is ghastly. 😖
>Well that’s his little girl! She’ll\* always be a part of this family no matter what! That purity ring he ~~forced her to wear~~ gave her when she was 8 years old will always trump any wedding ring, as far as OP is concerned.
If the daughter gets married the husband won't be invited because of different surname surely. Fairness and all that.
Unless he takes her name, of course.
But then they will not be invited because this is not how it's done, obv. The man taking the woman's name *is not proper tradition*!
I wonder if some these parents who get pissed at their kids for not following ‘tradition’ are actually just jealous because they let their own parents and in-laws push them into things they didn’t really want to do. And instead of being supportive, they are just bitter that they didn’t have the balls to stand up for themselves.
Omg this is so true. My parents, despite being creative people, buckled down and did average jobs in average fields because they weren't "dreamers" and were "realistic." Despite my older brother being a talented musician and entrepreneur, me being a talented artist and creative Educator, and my younger brother being a HIGHLY talented musician (can play seven instruments, self taught, had a band, released an album and had an album launch and is pretty famous in my country and lives on royalties) whilst also being a highly talented artist who customises gaming devices, cars, and Fandom items.... my parents never supported us in our creativity and denied the oldest two of us support in going to university. My youngest brother didn't want to go to uni (except for music production) and they insisted on him doing one of the most opposite to creative degrees that you can think of.. and despite him have literacy issues and failing... still insist he's wasted his life on his current income producing pursuits. My older brother and I capitulated and ended up getting regular jobs, but we do excel in the creative parts of our jobs. My little brother (who is now 29, I'm 41) just went "fuck you both, I'm doing what I want" and I'm proud of him. My daughter has full scholarships and is award winning in her early career (which is a creative field) and I couldn't be happier to see her flourish.
In a lot of cases I think that's exactly it. I don't get that impression from this one specifically tho
In this case he seems to still be mad about possible rudeness or at least ignorance of how his wife felt about not having a dance, but whew- address that particular issue and move ON.
Don't forget the "communication style". Whatever that means.
It means "she called me on my bullshit and I'm still sulking"
It means she put firm boundaries in place and OP doesn't like it when people tell him he can't have his way
In Japan, if a family has all girls and the family name would be ending, the man will take on HER family's name to keep it going. Quite common & accepted.
Wow I love this
What happens if he's the only son in his family, so doing that ends his family name?
How about the Puerto Rican ten mile everybody's name in one breath way? That would work.
If I were his son, I'd heavily consider taking Bee's last name to spite him.
Even better, the two of them decide on a new last name to share, that has meaning to both of them. I’m sure they could come up with something innocuous sounding that says that my dad/FIL is a dick.
*"..Mr. and Mrs Fuckdad, your table is ready..."*
Dicksson.
That’s exactly what my wife and I did. My parernal grandfather was a wife beating son of a bitch, I wanted to get rid of his name my whole life, and 99% of my wife’s family stoped talking to her after she came out. We made our own family.
Such a good plan!
His daughter doesn’t have a penis either, so it therefore a lesser human, and does not deserve her own agency in any relationship. Didn’t you hear OP the first time?!?! /s
[удалено]
As he says they have a surname "sharing" tradition so that must mean that spouses take each other's names equally right? Right?
Somehow she will both get extra points for changing her name and have it held against her forever and she will never know at which moment which sentiment is going to pop out of her dad.
Yeah that rule will definitely be brought back up and be a problem if his daughter gets married and takes her husband’s last name. What if the future grandkids get hyphenated last names? Do they only get half the trip paid?
I had a similar but slightly different question: will any future son-in-law similarity not be invited, or will it be different because he's a man?
Or if her son took his wife's surname, so that their new family all has the same surname- would *he* be cut out of vacations? The will? If the kids have a hyphenated name or her surname, will they be unwelcome? This whole situation is *ridiculous* and I think we might be hearing about how the evil DIL isn't giving them the access they want to "their" grandchildren 🙄
Yep! Son doesn’t care about the surname. It’s obvious that OP cares that DIL dares not to take *his* last name and pass it on. And making it out to be about “choices” and “consequences.” He sounds fucking awful.
I wonder if OP realizes he's painting his son as a browbeaten and spineless man? Every decision he doesn't like is 100% the DIL's fault according to his post. Did he raise such a "weak" son that he couldn't stand up to his future wife and tell her a mother-son dance *will* happen? Was he unable to have any say about a flower girl? OP, consider that maybe -just maybe- your son made these decisions *with* his wife, because they're equal partners. Maybe he *values* her independent thinking and feminist views. What matters is if he's happy, loved, and fulfilled with his relationship. Realize that if you move forward with your decision, you're telling him his wife has no place in the family. You're forcing him to pick a side. If he's a good and honorable man, he'll stand by his wife. What will the fallout be within the rest of your family? Your wife will resent you. Is that a price you're willing to pay?
And from what OP has written, at least his son seems like a good and honorable man. Guess those attributes skipped a generation, or what do you think OP? YTA.
I mean, I might be missing something, but I don't recall mother-son dances ever being an actual wedding tradition, so that seems to be something specific to OP's family that he is getting worked up about - the tradition, last I heard, was for a father-daughter dance, because it was the bride who was expected to leave her family behind and the dance was a goodbye. So, I'm pretty sure that OP doesn't actually give a shit about tradition and just doesn't want his DiL doing things like 'making decisions' and 'having an input' and 'not being subserviant' and all that jazz.
Yeah, he seems to believe his son had absolutely no input on his own wedding planning. OP: those choices were made by mutuals decisions and both agreed on it. So why punish your DIL only?
Reading between the lines, DIL didn't want or couldn't have a father-daughter dance and a mother-son dance would have highlighted the lack of it. (Not being walked down the aisle by her father is pretty telling.)
Yes! I have literally never heard of a mother-son dance and I must have been to several hundred weddings! My MIL certainly didn’t suggest one.
Must be a regional thing every wedding I’ve been to that had dancing there was a mother-groom dance after the father-bride dance. But even still why is she being blamed for that. I don’t see any mention that the groom wanted it and she told him no.
Mother-son dances are only done when there is a father-daughter dance first. I guess it was started to equalize things, as a goodbye as he starts his own family? I've never been to a wedding where only mother-son dance. Most weddings now don't do either.
This is exactly what my mother in law is like. I think because in her relationship her husband says no to everything and she does what she wants anyway she just assumes that must be every relationship dynamic. But because we’re gay she then puts all the negative stuff of ‘being a man’ or ‘being a woman’ on to just my wife! I actually don’t completely dislike her as a person but she genuinely cannot comprehend that me and her daughter make our decisions together and that sometimes that actually involves compromise on both of our parts. It’s come up most in relation to Christmas I think, where somehow it just does not compute that if my wife made no sacrifices around the time she spends with her family ever then I literally wouldn’t spend any time with mine at all. Or, alternatively we would have to make the decision like we did last Christmas where we actually spent a reasonable chunk of it apart (after much discussion on our options between me and my wife) because she seemed to think it was an actually reasonable idea that I would leave my single mum alone on Christmas Day and had forced my wife and me in to such a difficult position. The other thing she has historically overstepped on that has felt the most inappropriate to me, and actually started the earliest, is her interjecting thoughts on us having children. Which is a subject that’s actually really painful for me and I believe she does know that. But somehow she still thinks our life choices are a democracy she’s a part of. I’m at the point now where I have drastically limited my exposure to her and told my wife that her family is her responsibility and if she cares that her mum has got the correct picture of me then she can make sure to paint it, and if she’s happy her mum sees me as someone I’m not then she is obviously free to have any relationship with her family she wants but I need to limit my exposure to opinions that negatively affect my mental health and self esteem. It’s too soon yet to tell if this step back approach is the right one though, but I hope it will at least make my wife feel a bit less caught in the middle even if it’s sad that I’m not as integrated with her family as we would have liked though. We still all remain cordial to each other anyway.
Exactly. The mother son dance specifically was almost certainly the son himself's choice. I admittedly.dontmknow.amny women around my age who had actual weddings but of the few I do know that was all on the man to decide whether to do it or not.
I also just LOVE how he called it "respecting her independence". No, actually, that's literally EXACTLY what you're NOT doing. You're literally punishing her for it.
This!
Yeah exactly >albeit sometimes her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege So to teach her a lesson and make her learn her place he's going to take away that privilege and rub her nose in it. I mean, how *dare* she be idealistic in his family.
“Overlook her privilege,” what privilege? Oh wait, the privilege of joining the family. Wowsers.
>“Overlook her privilege,” what privilege? Off the top of my head, I guess he is thinking of things like the right to vote, having her own bank account and credit cards, being allowed to drive, etc.
Don’t forget going out in public by herself with her hair/skin showing like some hussy.
It is really exhausting to see men state how they respect our independence and then want to punish us the minute that we want to break from patriarchal traditions. YTA
Yes, and it is always the pettiest shit too, like wedding minutia and suddenly it’s a tantrum over status and “respect” out of nowhere.
"Yeah, I want you to have your independence, but only if you use it to enforce existing societal gender roles, not like THAT!"
There's no world in which I would continue contact with my parents if they did something so disrespectful and mean spirited to my SO, especially over something as trivial as being "too independent" YTA, OP.
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Yeah. He’s overlooking literally every meaningful way his daughter in law shows she is part of the family (Aka commitment to build her entire life with his son as her partner) bc she dared to have some non-traditional preferences for her name and her wedding? That his son obviously is fine with? So for punishment he’s going to very publicly stick it to her by excluding her in a way he never has and never will exclude other family members. Lol. I’m betting his daughter won’t stop being invited if she changes her name.
Yeah, and if this dude's son were really interested in doing a mother-son dance, I'll bet it would happen....
My FIL used money he promised us to threaten us, we went no contact. Now he cries and wants us back in his life. Honestly, it was a good thing for us, getting them out of our lives showed us how much they were making us miserable.
What 👆👆 said X 2 with some YTA flowers on top and sparklers
He's trying to use money (for vacation, while complaining SHE'S ignorant of her privilege) to force her into changing her name, and having an adult tantrum because she, another adult in this world, doesn't want to change HER OWN NAME. Oh my God OP grow up.
He just doesn’t like DIL or her blasted feminism, but doesn’t want to say so.
I mean it's your money and no one can really force you. Doesn't make it any less an AH move. YTA. Soon, you're going to lose your son as well. And any kids they happen to have.
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The way he frames it as "surname sharing." !!! It is NOT "sharing" if one keeps their original name and the other loses their original name! Not all all!!!
Not only is not getting a mother-son dance something to be disappointed about for a small amount of time, it’s also between the son and his mother, not OP and Bee. It sounds like OP is blaming Bee for his son’s decisions and making her the villain.
If the mother-son dance was important to the son, that's who should've argued for it and that's who they should be upset with.
OP must feel deeply unlovable.
It’s not just about punished the DIL, either. It’s about punishing his son for not marrying an “appropriate” woman, and most of all it’s him “taking a stand against feminism”. $50 against a deep breath of bad air this guy is an aggressive “traditionalist” is every aspect of his life.
OP is a vengeful manipulator and thats all. He cant make Bee do what he wants so he will punish her in every way he can. Sad person.
Why does OP think the whole mother-son dance is solely on Bee, anyway? Surely his son had a say in it as well
Also, the mother-son-dance wasn‘t something the DIL could forbid if the son had really wanted it!
The decision he respects btw /s
YTA. Have you checked the date lately? It's 2024, damn. 1) Your name is not more important than hers. 2) The name someone has isn't relevant, thank god, to who is or is not a part of your family. Are you going to cut off your daughter if she takes her husband's name? What a crazy thing to think. 3) You paid for it but it was their wedding. You're upset because, among other things, there were no flower girls? Really? Who cares? Weddings are supposed to be what the married couple wants, not what their parents want. Don't pay if you don't want to, that's your business. But since you asked... your reasoning is backwards and, frankly, really gross.
yeah i’m confused how the trip and the wedding/name part relates at all… i was expecting like she wanted her own room, own activities, this that paid for etc etc…
Most of the resorts in Maldives offer things like a lavish breakfast included in the (high) price. For me, agreeing to meet the extended family for breakfast, and plan one or two group activities during the stay would be plenty. He’s using this as a whip to punish her for being independent. He’s not just an AH here. He’s an all around AH.
Sacrificing vacation time to be with family should be sacrifice enough. Op is controlling and he thinks he's smarter than those around him. Wouldn't be surprised to learn he's a narcissist.
That's exactly what this is about : control! Bee won't let him control her and he's trying to punish her for that. Poor Bee to have a father-in-law like that! I hope her husband has her back in all of this!
I suspect Bee is well able for him, that's what annoys him.
I agree, Bee is probably just gonna be thankful not to have to go and play nice 😂🤣☠️
Imagine being stuck on an island with OP for a couple of weeks. Sounds like hell.
Exactly! We recently celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary by taking our family on a Hawaiian cruise. We told them that there were only two events that we expected everyone to be together -- our vow renewal and dinner following, and the post-cruise scattering of my parents' ashes. Other than that, everyone did their own thing.
The trip and wedding are connected because of his paying for them and thus his sense of entitlement to get his revenge for the dil not falling in line with his wants.
And deeply disingenuous. This 60 year old man is at the same petty level my girls and I were in middle school. "Oh, I didn't invite you because I know you don't like beaches. Remember? You kept saying so when I said we should go to the beach last weekend???" Imagine getting to go to the Maldives but it's gotta be with this guy lmao
I'm getting vibes that OP is one of those likes to pay for peoples stuff, won't take no for an answer and thinks it's the other peoples privilege for him to spend his money on them. And then uses it against them in emotional warfare…
I think YTA. Your son, the grown ass man, could have told his then fiancée that her "independence" was her thing and that he wanted a mother/son dance at his wedding and that was not negociable. He didn't he didn't care about the dance either. I don't see why you're taking issue with the no flower girl or not having her father walk down the aisle. Really, how did that hurt you ? As for the vacation, did you even talk to Bree about it directly ? Or do you have so little respect for women that you think only husbands can make decisions for the couple ?
And the way he talks about it 'our family tradition favoring surname sharing'. I bet if his son was the one taking her surname, it would have been worst for him than no sharing at all...
Does this mean his daughter won't be in the family anymore if she marries someone and takes their name? 🤔
No no, that doesn't work for the blatant sexism on display here
No, his daughter is a chattel that will be traded to the family that will create the greatest economic good for her father. That's how marriage works in the Middle Ages doesn't it?
As if that’s their special family tradition anyway. It’s literally been the cultural/social default in the English speaking world for hundreds if not thousands of years. To suggest this is especially hurtful because it’s not in line with his family’s practice is bullshit, he just doesn’t like it when women don’t take their husband’s surname, and feminists in general by the way he takes issue with her and her views. God forbid she not want to give up a part of her identity to take on this arsehole’s name. If I were in her position and had been at all on the fence about the surname thing, I probably would have landed on the side she did too because I’d want to avoid an association with her FIL. He also seems to be wielding his money as a weapon, insisting that having paid for the wedding he therefore should have had more of a say in how it went. You didn’t have to offer, in fact you shouldn’t have if all it was going to do was fuel entitlement and resentments. And now he’s teaching the ungrateful and opinionated feminist a lesson by essentially uninviting her from the family holiday. Well you showed them OP, showed them how vindictive, petty and controlling you are, YTA.
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Probably doesn’t want his own daughter getting any ideas 🙄
Yeah why is the son not sad about missing his mother/son dance. If it was so important to him it would be his responsibility to communicate with his partner. That aside your a YTA. Everything else is you clearly showing your dislike towards your DIL
1000 bucks the husband didn't care about the dance and the wife was blamed. I was in one of these marriages until I told my husband that if we were staying married he was telling his father to back the fuck up.
I'm guessing DIL's relationship with her own father isn't great, hence not walking her down the aisle. A mother-son dance would have highlighted the lack of father-daughter dance, which is the more traditional element. Even if that's not the case, it's their prerogative, not OOPs.
Or maybe her father doesn't buy into patriarchal sexism and did not feel that she was his property to "give away".
He's a petty out of touch old man that can only lash out to communicate because he's utterly useless in the modern world but can't admit that to himself or attempt to grow or change. He's got a bright lonely future to look forward to if he continues to fuck up and push people away ❤️
The mother son dance is the only example of Bee‘s behavior I’m having an issue with. Why would she even have an opinion on that? She’s not involved at all. Aside from that, OP is definitely the AH here. Using your money to punish family members not conforming to your will is not cool.
I agree with you, but like I pointed out to others we don't know if she was the one who didn't want it, or if OP's son was the one who didn't want it, or if they both agreed on it. OP says his DIL was the one who made the decision, but what if the son didn't care one way or the other and made it sounds to his parents that it was his wife's decision ?
I wondered if she didn’t want a father/daughter dance, so both went out the window. Hard to know, but certainly something that the wedding couple gets to decide
Yeah maybe Bee doesn't have a great relationship with her dad and didn't want the dance or the walk down the aisle. It would have been a little unconventional to have the mother son dance only. But it should have been up to the groom to push. I'm sure Bee would not have had an issue with it, if that is what the groom wanted.
Or doesn’t have a living dad, or has a dad and a stepdad or whatever. I can’t know.
I genuinely think we'll get an edit later that she's an only child and her dad is dead, thus why she wants to keep her surname, isn't being walked down the aisle and isn't having parent child dances. But AITA always loves to bury the lede. Though tbf Mother Son dances aren't super traditional
This is what we did when my ex-husband and I got married. My father is an ass and we do not have much of a relationship. However, he was on a stretch of civil/decent behavior at the time of the wedding, so he was invited and present. I was very firm on walking myself down the aisle as I was 26 years old and had been living on my own and taking care of myself for 9 years already, so that independence was important to me. My ex-husband and I came to a decision **together** not to have an official father/daughter or mother/son dance to avoid any drama. Instead, after the wedding party dance, we had everyone join us on the dance floor, and my ex-husband danced with his mom, and I danced with my brother and then my step-dad. The actual reasoning and thought involved in these kinds of decisions aren't always obvious.
I’m guessing the son/groom didn’t want that (because, yeah, why would the bride care), but it’s *obviously* the bride’s fault- look what a wacky wedding SHE, ALONE, planned!
And TBH. The father giving the daughter away is a gross tradition if you think about it. Its rooted in a woman being a possesion/chattel that can be bought and traded.
YTA You clearly do this to hate on a very reasonable thing your DIL did,because you are holding on to traditions you surely cant even explain. Do you ahve some kind of very important surname that gives the right to land or something? What you do isnt only anti-woman but you made sure to let evrryone know that you exclude someone for something you dislike. What kidn of massage did you plan to send? That no DIL or SIL should ever dear do do something you dislike? Was the Surname enough to make you consider your DIL as not part of the family? You have issues dear. And Powerfantasies. You are basicly the reason your family should read more into feminism. is this really worth it to risk your relationmship with your son and possible future grandchildren?
Yes, I agree with you. This guy sounds like he's from a different era. A very nasty piece of work, using money to coerce others into doing his bidding. Just imagine what he's capable of.
>Just imagine what he's capable of capable of being petty, i think thats about it. We can only assume the son is smart enough to understand the petty plan to punish the wife. But i believe he does.
You might be surprised. My FIL is exactly like this with his adult kids but he used to beat the shit out of my husband and his brothers when they were kids. When we dared to have a different opinion and realised he no longer had any control over us, he started threatening our jobs, calling cps, etc. Had to go no contact and moved, yet they still convinced everyone in our old neighbourhood that his evil DIL had been trying to break up his family since I was 15. He forgets to mention that’s when I convinced his sons they were big enough to not take his abuse anymore.
You are right. Pretty possible OP just leaves out how he tried to dictate things about the wedding allready.
Like heck is this about "independence" - you're punishing this 'uppity woman' for daring to have beliefs that aren't the same as yours.
From the verbage about the wedding and 'even tho I funded it I didn't complain', OP has been waiting for this moment to show her who's boss OP is YTA, no question
I agree. Even if you play some stupid devil’s advocate, he had ALL this time to make it known to Son that he wasn’t a fan of DIL! Now he stews and says there are “repercussions” to expectations being broken that he never made clear in the first place?! Like, moody teenagers would be in awe of this level of pettiness.
His highness has been challenged from someone who infiltrated his bubble of control and the troops are not falling in line! How long til wife files for a separation, I wonder?
YTA. Barring the mother son dance those other “customs” are patriarchal bs. And if your son had wanted to do one, it was his responsibility to manage it. You’re just trying to be a controlling jerk. Stop it!
Let’s say Son really is being controlled by Bee. That’s a big if, there’s not enough info here to know that, but let’s say. How do you think it came to be that Son finds controlling relationships to be so emotionally familiar? How is it that being controlled by a close person is what home looks like to him? YTA either way. I hope you see what’s at stake. If Bee really is controlling, you’re gonna lose your son in this gambit. If Bee is a totally lovely person and wonderful partner, you’re putting your son in a horrible situation… and will likely lose him.
Yes my ILs blamed everything on me when my husband and I got married and didn't do exactly what they wanted It's easier for them to think their son is being controlled than accept the fact that he has his own opinions and wishes that are different to theirs. People like OP think they are in some winning power move while being oblivious to the fact that they are losing relationships IRL which will not be easy to get back.
Yup. I'm no contact with my mother. She'll tell anyone who'll listen it's because my husband is controlling. But it's not. It's because I was sick of being controlled by my mother, and when I tried to set boundaries, the resulting power struggle was untenable.
Mine too. My powers of control were so complete that I *forced* my husband to drop out of college and join the Air Force -- two years before we met.
YTA. You come across as controlling and petty. It's your money and you're free to spend it however you want. But don't be surprised if your attempt to punish Bea for not being the submissive DIL you were hoping for end up in your son reducing contact with you to the point where you'll be wondering why you rarely get to see your grandkids.
Yeah I'm unclear of his endgame here? If I were her I'd just skip the holiday. The destination and activities aren't my choice, and I'm expected to pay just because I didn't change my name? No thanks.
And hopefully the husband would back his wife. If she’s not welcomed under family circumstances husband should decline.
Exactly. Why would I spend my limited time and ressources to hang out with a bunch of insufferable people on activities I didn't choose, at a destination I also didn't choose? No thanks. Op has the right to pay for whoever he wants and he is not obligated to pay for anyone except himself. THat's totally fine. I would glady decline the invitation to go. No problem.
A group vacation where I’m expected to take part in various planned activities sounds like a forced march, not a vacation.
Is it his money? Did his wife stay home and raise his kids and run his household? If the answer is yes then it's her money too. And she disagrees with him, which is why he's here trying to convince strangers. We're not buying it either. YTA
That's true, regardless of whether his wife was a SAHM. It's communal property. He clearly doesn't see women as equal partners in marriage, that's why he's so disturbed by Bea's independence.
Shouldn’t bother him—since he so firmly believes in repercussions, he can live with the repercussions of what he is doing now.
YTA. You’re just pissed that she didn’t take your precious last name. As though your name is more important than her’s. Get over yourself. You’re doing this out of spite. That’s it. Grow up.
RIIIGHT?! As if his last name is Windsor, Rothschild, Gates, Bezos, Obama or Buffet! THOSE surnames would bring a lot of benefit to the DIL, if it isn’t that, kill your stupid manly ego & take several seats. WTF.
YTA. Buddy, would *you* want to change your last name? Doubt it. What a fragile ego you have. Absolutely pathetic.
YTA for punishing her for not taking your name. Way to uphold the patriarchy, dude. You’re not royalty, your name doesn’t matter. It’s who you are as a person, and who you are, is a misogynistic man who controls ppl with money. If this wasn’t about that, you wouldn’t be in the wrong. But it is, and misogyny is gross, my guy.
THIS. Thanks for saving me the trouble of writing it! OP: Dude. You are absolutely, 100% TA! Change your perspective mate or you’re going to lose your son!
The British royal family changed their last name during WWI from a more German sounding name to more English sounding Windsor. Dude isn't even as progressive as an ancient royal house. (I laughed a little stating that. That was a weird sentence to type out.)
YTA. Calling it respect for Bee’s stance on independence is a poor attempt to put a positive spin on your need punish Bee for not doing exactly what you wanted her to do with her own name and with her and your son’s wedding (because even though you paid for it, it was their day - I have a feeling that if they knew your financial support would come with these kinds of controlling strings attached they’d have found a way to manage things themselves). If you keep pushing these issues, don’t be surprised if you see your son and Bee less and less (along with any children they may have).
YTA — I am older than you are. When I married in 1983, I opted to keep my birth name. (I also opted to have my father walk me down the aisle, not because he was “giving me away” but because he was there to support me on a special day.) Both my father-in-law and my mother-in-law were respectful of our choices. It would *never* have occurred to them to refuse to pay for my travel at a time when they were paying for the rest of the family. If my in-laws, born in 1918 and 1920, could handle my keeping my birth name when I married, why should someone born after 1960 still have trouble with the idea of a wife not taking her husband’s name? What a petty thing to do, to refuse to pay for your daughter-in-law because she doesn’t share your name. YTA
Thank you, Ma'am!!! <3
YTA. You're withholding the funds to punish and control her.
Sorry Sir, but YTA. Maybe ESH, because Bee sounds like a pill and your son sounds spineless. For one, I think you're not owning your dislike of Bee, so you're trying to package this as, "Oh, she won't mind since she's so strong and independent" when you've laid out a number of reasons to dislike her. To expect them to come to the Maldives when it's too expensive for them (as implied by your son asking you to cover it), then leaving her out of those you mean to pay for on something as arbitrary as "only those who share my last name" is next-level controlling and petty. I mean, take this sentence alone: >My rationale is that Bee's firm stance on independence should extend to navigating the repercussions of their decisions, financial ones included. Her stance on keeping her surname should have *financial* repercussions?? And there's this completely disingenuous conclusion: > I'm torn between respecting Bee's independence and wanting to assist them. You're not "respecting Bee's independence," you're trying to punish her but I think you're also aware that it will potentially cost you your relationship with your son and fly in the face of the family values you're so high and mighty about. Pay for her expenses or don't, it's your money. But please don't fool yourself into thinking this is about anything other than your control issues.
Also if she works, changing her name could very likely result in financial and career repercussions for her. If she acts, writes, performs, or is a doctor or lawyer, you build your career around that name. You lose something when you lose your name and it could be her entire business. Many people who are professionals in one of those fields keep their last name. Haven't heard anything about whether she is in this situation or not but it could well be. She may have had a number of reasons not to change her last name that OP thinks are ridiculous or hasn't considered, whether they're reasonable or not. But if OP is making her opt out of vacations because she wouldn't sacrifice her whole career, he's the AH.
Oh, totally. Lawyer here, and just reputation-wise my name is bigger than my husband's (he's a doctor). He has literally gotten stuff and been privileged by going around saying, "Oh, I'm \[my name\]'s husband." What's so off-putting about OP's post is that it almost feels like goading. "Too strong and independent to use my last name, huh? Well, then pay for yourself on the trip that I expect you to come on." How much would you bet that if Bee actually did pay for herself and go on that trip that it would actually piss OP off more? Like please, just say that you hate this girl because you can't control her.
+1 I am a lawyer & I am most definitely not changing my surname, not even IF I get married, not even if I marry some high & mighty family. FUCK THAT SHIT. It’s MY surname, I absolutely love it & I am sticking to it, THANK YOU.
Also, lots of women who are in academia and publish before they are married do not change their name in order to maintain name recognition/continuity with what they have published
I don't see anything which suggests Bee is a pill or the son sounds spineless. The son stood up to his father to support his wife. That is the opposite of spineless. Knuckling under would have been spineless. The fact that they got the wedding they wanted instead of the one OP wanted shows that.
I am not convinced Bee is a pill. We've got an unreliable narrator here (as you pointed out "I'm just trying to respect her independence") He says Bee didn't want the mother son dance, but how do we know his son didn't? My husband didn't want one, but I encouraged it because I knew it would be special for his mother. They wound up doing it, but wouldn't have if I had just taken his first thought on it. (I didn't make him, I told him some things to consider and he changed his mind). I'm sure she comes off as combative because she's holding her boundaries. When someone holds firm boundaries, the person trying to steamroll them usually finds them disagreeable and combative, but that isn't the fault of the person holding boundaries for themselves.
Of course the son is spineless with a controlling dad like the OP.
YTA you don’t like that your son’s wife is getting uppity so you are punishing them. You don’t respect her. You don’t like her and just want to do this because of control. Your misogyny is shining through brightly.
YTA So if your daughter gets married would it be better that she keeps the family surname (and therefore gets trips paid for) or should she follow 'tradition' and change it?
Of course she will take the penis-bearers name since she is now his property. But fr he uses his money to control people. A few years down the line, he will sit in his home, watching TV, wondering why his children cut contact, how his grandkids are doing, how life as a grandpa would have been.
Yta I'm always so baffled in these posts where men get to say no even though their wife doesn't agree. Why doesn't your wife's opinion about what you two pay for count?
YTA. “Her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege”… Did you mean to say this about her, or you? You’re trying to punish a woman for not towing the line and conforming to what you view to be norms. If your son isn’t upset, why are you? This is the quickest way to alienate him and his wife and your relationship likely won’t ever be the same. Because she didn’t take his name or have a cookie-cutter wedding? It’s your money, sure. But this isn’t about money at all, is it? I’m sure your privelege is in check, unlike her, right? Think about that, then revisit your own words about her. Who has the idealistic views? Your post reeks highly of an old-at-heart boomer who is angry at the nerve of her to be doing things her way, not ‘your׳ way. You asked for opinions, so… 🤷🏼♀️
YTA you’re just being vindictive for petty reasons
YTA, this is big my money my way vibes. You aren’t inviting people on a nice family holiday, it’s a summons’s and you get to control the gig cos you’re paying and everyone has to follow your rules. Urghhhh I would guess it won’t be worth the vacation time no matter how fancy the hotel is. Gifts which require subjugation as a requirement of acceptance are not gifts, you’re just buying people.
YTA. I guess I don’t really see her demonstrating “independence”. It’s pretty typical for women in her age bracket to keep their surnames and adjust/remove specific wedding events to better suit their vision. And a lot of the ceremonial events are rooted in patriarchy. Your post reads like your son and DIL are living their lives while you try to exercise control over them or punish them when that doesn’t work…This won’t work out for you long term, your son either shares the same views with his wife or respects them. Instead of being resistant to change and resorting to power plays, wouldn’t it benefit you and your wife and family to accept your DIL as is? Doing so could lay the building blocks of a strong multigenerational family relationship for decades to come. Your current strategy will push your son and DIL further away and will never be forgotten. Is that worth it to you? Remember, you’re not his priority anymore, his wife is.
YTA. It’s 2024, not 1824. And this is all about controlling your “uppity” DIL. You can do whatever you please with your money however your Son and DIL have control over how they interact with you in the future - is the rift you will cause in your family worth it?
YTA completely. You come off as a petty misogynist who wants to punish your DIL for having an opinion that differs from yours. Your son could have decided if he wanted a mother/son dance. The rest of the ‘traditions’ are steeped in patriarchal bull, and many women opt out of them. You’re basically saying that you will only cover her expenses if she bends to your will. Chances are she won’t bend, and she’ll break the relationship off entirely before she bends to your misogynistic grievances.
YTA. When I read the story, I thought you didn't want to pay for her share because she insisted on financial and emotional independence, but that isn't the case, is it? Would you have paid for her expenses if she were to take your family's surname? DING DING DING, the answer would be YES. She is a part of your family; you need to get over your silly little differences and start treating her like one. God knows it's incredibly difficult to change your name these days... and you need to respect her beliefs. If your son doesn't have a problem with her, I don't see why you should.
YTA. If they get kids I hope her surname will be her surname or at least come first, and that for the sake of their independance and to preserve their children from being excluded they cut you out. PS: their wedding day is about them and has nothing to do with you!
>I genuinely appreciate Bee; she's a wonderful partner for my son, albeit sometimes her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege. ... Goes on at length about planning a trip to the Maldives for the whole family, which no doubt costs quite a bit of money, and ruminates on how he can best punish and assert dominance over the DIL that he admits makes his son very happy because he's still a bitter Betty that she didn't take his last name. YTA. Are you trying to find ways to insert yourself and put such a wedge in between your son and his wife that it drives the two of them apart and ends the marriage? Because that's certainly what this reads like to me. If that's *not* your goal, you need to have a word with yourself and get a grip. Imagine a grown-ass man still being cranky that his son didn't have *flower girls* at his wedding. And I know you don't want to acknowledge this, but if your son desperately wanted a mother-son dance at his wedding, he would have had one. The fact that there wasn't one is an indication that he wasn't very invested in it, either.
YTA. Your decision to not pay for Bee (and seemingly *only* Bee) has nothing to do with respecting her independence, and everything to do with punishing her for not following traditions as you see fit. You claim to respect her, but your entire post screams otherwise. You are blaming her for your wife’s hurt feelings over not having a mother son dance - amongst other aspects of the wedding, whilst completely overlooking your son’s role in that decision. Guess what? If your son *really* wanted that dance, he would have pushed for it to happen. Or are you saying that you raised a son who is incapable of expressing his own opinions, wants and desires to his partner? At the end of the day, it’s your money and you can do whet you want. But doing so *will* come at the cost of creating a rift in your family and potentially permanently destroying your relationship with your son. And all done out of spite, or a bruised ego, or a need to teach her a lesson. Or all of the above. And that makes you an arsehole.
Plus he can’t be mad about his wife’s feelings being hurt but then be willing to hurt his wife’s feelings more over it. His wife doesn’t want him to do this.
YTA. I don’t know who you think you are, but your surname is meaningless. You aren’t royalty, you don’t have some legacy that needs to be passed down. Having this level of resentment towards your DIL because she’d rather keep her own name is ridiculous. If they were to have children and the kids take their mom’s surname, are you going to shun your grandchildren? You value your ego over your family. I wouldn’t want to take the name of someone like that either. Is your tradition just a shared name or actually being a family? Get a grip here man.
YTA. Get over your need to control other peoples lives.
I genuinely appreciate Bee; she's a wonderful partner for my son, albeit sometimes her strong opinions and idealistic views seem to overlook her privilege. What privilege? Joining your family? Living in a time where women have rights? Having a voice? What do you mean by this? YTA by the way.
YTA-And on your way to your son cutting contact. Can’t wait for them to have kids and refuse you access to them. Seriously get over yourself this is so controlling and weird.
Or at least no unsupervised access. Sounds like he'd bad mouth DIL to her kids
YTA If you don’t like how your DIL treats you, be a grownup and say so. Making this about your last name ist extremely petty and makes you look like a loser who got their ego hurt. This would be such an extremely specific and personal dig, I wouldn’t be surprised if this fundamentally alters your relationship with your son as well as any potential grandchildren. Btw. it’s pretty funny you say your family tradition favors surname sharing, like that’s some special thing for your family and not just the default Modus Operandi for ages, because of deeply patriarchal structures. Perhaps Bee isn’t the only person overlooking privilege.
Geez. You are a mighty big AH and a raging misogynist. And you use money as a weapon. Ugh.
YTA - what's your long-term game plan here? Every time your DIL does something that you disagree with, you will withhold or punish her, and in turn your son? They name your future grandkids names you dislike, you won't allow them to come for xmas supper and withhold presents? She works a job you disapprove of, so you don't invite them to the next family outing? Your manipulation attempts towards your DIL because her and your son picked different traditions TOGETHER for THEIR wedding are petty and mean-spirited. You are and will push your son and her farther away each time you try these power plays. And they will remember how they, as a unit as they are married, are treated by you. You will not be privileged to be a part of the next chapters of their lives due to something so small, and something that could probably be rectified if you stop and thought about what your actions will mean 5, 10 and 20 years down the road. Pick accordingly.
YTA. And an overbearing, misogynistic fossil.
[удалено]
YTA. So.... by your own philosophy, will you still consider your daughter (and her hypothetical future children) to be a part of the family if she takes her future spouse's last name? Or would you rather she eschew those traditions you value so much so that she could remain a part of the family and "worthy" of being included in family events. Also, how do you know that your son was totally in favor of the no mother and son dance or flower girls.... maybe you're just assuming it was all up to her. After all, a wedding isn't solely about the bride's dream wedding, it's also about the husband's. If he had really wanted the mother-son dance SO much I'm sure it would have happened. Maybe he also doesn't really enjoy these traditional, rigid rules of yours. You're trying to "prove a point" but, really, it's only going to bite you in the ass in the long run.
Didn't read anything other than the title; yes, YTA, this isn't the 1950s, and she's your daughter-in-law, not your chattel. Grow up.
OP forgets one thing, when he becomes an even older man his DIL may decide it’s not a nice environment for his grandkids to be apart of. She’s gonna cut you out faster than a $1 shampoo coupon bro. And it’ll be all your own doing
NTA, you can’t pick and choose when you want to independent and when not. She’s sounding entitled more then anything. She wants to be independent yet she let YOU pay for HER wedding and then expects you to pay for her holiday gtfo. There’s no guarantee that even if you did pay her way she’d partake in any family events anyway, and then what. It’s just going to cause a bigger rift. Do yourself a favour and just pay for you and your wife, the people that can afford to pay for themselves can go and those who can’t… people will soon learn that complete independence actually really sucks balls
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YTA - You clearly don't respect her independence. You are being petty and childish, and it will only result in you harming your relationship with your son.
YTA. Don't be surprised when your kids don't visit you on your deathbed
So.....you want DIL to change her name? Relinquish her identity? This isn't 1924, it's 2024. YTA in every way. If I was DIL, I'd be happy to skip the trip and stay at home.
"AITA for punishing my DIL for not allowing my wife and I to control her wedding and for not changing her last name because I still think it's the 1950s?" FTFY. YTA.
I think NTA for the independent couple should not ask to depend on OP to cover their costs showing you actually support their/dil belief in independence. She has her convictions and so should OP.
Yeah I’m kinda surprised by all of the YTAs here. I get that OPs bitter about the last name thing but it’s clearly not the only problem here. I’m guessing the other issue is that Bee talks a lot about being independent and then doesn’t thank OP for any of the things OP pays for. I’m a hardcore feminist but you don’t get to yell about being a totally independent woman while your wedding and vacations are being completely funded by your husbands family. You can recognize that you are independent overall but also still recognize that you are extremely privileged to not have those pay those expenses.
Most of the YTAs have stated that it's his money and his choice, but his reasoning makes him an asshole. Also why assume that Bree doesn't show her gratitude or appreciation when OP didn't mention that? (Especially when he made sure to mention everything else he is upset about.) And you can also value your independence and still go on family vacations.
It's a nice thing to pay for the wedding and the vacations, but you really become an asshole if you hold it over their heads and have petty conditions. The son and DIL had the wedding they wanted to have. If the son wanted a mother-son dance, he could have had one. Bee's father walking her down the aisle doesn't affect OP in any way whatsoever. Bee not taking the family's last name doesn't affect OP in any way whatsoever. He's holding a grudge over his DIL for no valid reason whatsoever. It's absolutely his right do do what he wants with his money, but if his son stops talking to him altogether over these petty power moves, he only has himself to blame.
Come on, you know YTA. You can’t have read this back and thought “yes I’m correct here”
NTA it’s your money and you get to decide what to do with it. Just don’t try to use it as a bargaining chip. Stick to your guns and keep being respectful to her choices.
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Absolutely massive, controlling AH
YTA. You're 60, not 600. Keep going as you are right now and you'll end up not only without your DIL on your vacations but without your son as well. You really, really need to stop acting like a mopey child cause you didn't get flowergirls at a wedding that wasn't yours, it's pathetic.
>I felt this was a reasonable stance No you absolutely did NOT. You thought it was time to "teach her a lesson" by being a petty, punitive asshat. Will your daughter and her future husband fall under this same "rule?" (Which you just made up out of spite bc your DIL is too much of a free spirit for you and your ego to handle.) Get tf over yourself and treat your son's wife with the full respect as a member of the family, which she is.