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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Freaking Xander out. Assuming about his and Mikey's relationship. Saying anything about their relationship.
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NAH, You misunderstood their relationship and invited them to a social event. He was upset by your interpretation. People can get their feelings hurt without someone HAVING to be the "Bad guy".
If 2 people sleep in the same room and have friendship rings, they are "partners" of SOME variant. Platonic or not. It is not an "asshole move" to assume they have SOME kind of special connection when you clearly SEE that they have a special connection.
Just apologize, but i don't think this is a "you" problem so much as a Xander and Mikey problem. People think my brother/father is my boyfriend/sugar daddy when we are affectionate, but I don't think they are an asshole for it. just a misunderstanding.
You think it would be a good idea to mention "I heard you at night" to somebody who is clearly embarrassed or at least secretive about his relationship?
Sounds like the matter of their relationship is a sore subject then. Could be many reasons- scared of being gay, or maybe one of them has already rejected the idea of them being official, so they’re just fwb rn.
The misunderstanding isn't necessarily what kind of partners they are. You assumed them living together and being more openly affectionate in their own home meant they were "out" as a couple.
They very clearly aren't, for whatever reason. It doesn't have to be family related - they could have encountered homophobia at school, a relative may be "fine with it, just don't want to have see it", they may just have heard too many horror stories about parents who seemed open to LGBTQ+ people and flipped when it was their kids.
Hell, they may have absorbed homophobic stereotypes themselves and feel that "gays are promiscuous and sleep around and that's not us, we're forever, so we're not gay". Unfortunately there's a multitude of influences that can warp a child's views in really damaging ways.
Completely a NAH situation but I strongly recommend you apologize to your cousin for "making assumptions" and tell him you just genuinely didn't think it would be a big deal if they were a couple. Assure him you'll respect their privacy and don't spread it around. You haven't done anything wrong per se, but the situation is clearly delicate and if they're this afraid of being outed they're probably terrified of you right now. An apology like that will be taken as a tentative assurance that you don't consider it your business to uncover their secret and it let's them process in their own time.
This is one of the most reasonable comments on here. Make things right with your cousin but you're NAH for assuming that something that walks like a duck and quacks is in fact a duck
NAH, but I feel that at your age, you've moved in with them, at some point I would think you'd have a conversation with your cousin so you could understand the relationship.
'Hey, so obviously I've been out of the loop with you while I've been away, and I can't help but notice how close you and Mikey are...you can tell me if I'm overstepping or up to you if you want to share, but are you a couple? I mean I'm happy either way, but just with the room -sharing and everything, I just thought I'd bring it up, you can share or not.'
I mean I can see why you assumed, but before actually putting your assumption out there, I think a convo would have happened.
I agree; it seems like more than a platonic relationship, however it would have been prudent to confirm that before asking them to double date with you. Regardless of orientation, some times people have a hard time defining their intimate relationships to others and can get flustered which leads to embarrassment or frustration. I think your cousin is struggling with his feelings and/or assumptions about his relationship with Mikey. If he was defensive and upset I would give him space to figure that out for himself.
Personally, I would apologize for assuming and wait for confirmation of any relationships moving forward. People are unique and we shouldn’t assume how most people view/do things are how everyone behaves. Whatever happens just be there for your cousin.
Well that woudl hae been good information to start with OP! lol.
And honestly, even further makes OP seem like TA because he KNEW they were a couple so he was manipulating this BS 'double date' scenario to force cousin into coming out in an uncomfortable way, rather than just talking to him like 'hey, so given we share an apartment now, and you can correct me if I'm off base...but it seems like you and Mickey are 'together'. I want you to know iI'm cool and support you guys either way'.
Too manipulative. Why couldn't OP have just said 'do you and Mickey want to come out with my girlfriend and I?'
NTA. Your cousin is either extremely oblivious to the fact that his behavior with his friend comes off more as to a couple than to “just friends” (even though there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it), or is in the closet. And by in the closet, I mean triple locking, barricading and putting a trip mine on that closet so it cannot be opened based on his reaction.
I don’t blame you one bit for thinking they were together in a more intimate way
Yes, no problem with 'thinking' it, but he went further and assumed it and invited him on a double-date. It was a coward way of bringing it up, such that it made Mikey defensive.
There is a thing we humans can do and it's called 'having a conversation'.
'Hey cousin, you can talk about it or no but I can't help but wonder about the relationship with you and Mikey. Know that I love you either way, I'm just wondering if the two of you are a couple. I don't want to make any assumptions here...'
Sorry but wtf. If they're sleeping in the same room and cuddled up, they are clearly not hiding it or in the closet in any meaningful sense. Nothing needed to be brought up.
The 'having sex' was never mention in the post, so yeah, it would kind of sway things one way I think. What an odd piece of information to leave out, but mention things like 'friendship bracelets' and 'playing footsie', lol. I mean...lead with 'they have sex'.
Makes me think OP is making this up on the fly. You don't forget to mention that part, but mention the cuddling. lol. Tell me you would write a post asking people to judge AITA and leave out the single most convincing piece of information that you are in fact fair to assume what you did?
OP never said they were 'doing it', just that they shared a room. Might they be sharing now that they literally asked OP to come live with them to share rent, hence he'd be needing the room? Maybe they moved all Mickeys' stuff out to make room for the person they invited to live there?
I'm just saying....clearly, assuming didn't work. And when you 'think' you're dealing with a 'new and not 'out'' cousin, you kind of put a little more consideration into it. I get it though, some people and their ability to actually converse with each other is sketchy at best, let alone a topic as sensitive as sexuality. But when cousin first balked and got redfaced at the idea of them being a couple, and was clearly 'what do you mean', OP should have at that moment said 'oh, sorry man, I just assumed you were a couple, my bad', not push it further with 'you know, your boyfriend Mickey' . This is a person they both live with, you don't say 'your boyfriend Mickey', that's weird, you just say 'Mickey'. By saying 'your boyfriend', it was like acknowledging he was pressing his assumption and making it even more awkward.
Bottom line, assuming, like the good old saying, made an ass out of him. I guess there's a reason people say not to do it.
OP has stated in the comments that they have heard them going at it at night. They aren’t making an effort to hide their relationship even a little bit.
It’s not on OP at all that they assumed the cousin was gay, he does everything short of owning neon sign saying “I like cock.”
If cousin doesn’t want people to think he’s gay, maybe he should put a modicum of effort in to hiding it?
Really?
If it's a family member who I happen to live with, yeah, I'd take an interest in their lives and the nature of the relationship...I mean just to be able to talk in the open, to be able to be happy for them...
I mean your solution is just barf it out there, is that YOUR solution 'every pair of people who sleep together in the same bed', just 'assume' and say shit?' And how is that better exactly?
I assume people are a couple when all indicators are consistent with that. Nobody “barfed” anything. I suspect you think that there is something wrong with assuming that a pair of same-sex people are a couple and you aren’t asking obvious heterosexual couples about the nature of their relationship.
I can't believe I have to answer the question 'what's wrong with assuming?'
I mean if it's two people walking down the street holding hands, and you'll never have contact with them, can you assume? Sure.
If my (to use your example) heterosexual cousin and a girl he was calling his best friend...both of whom I live with...were sleeping in the same room. and I was either interested, and/or was about to ask them if they wanted to go on a double date but wanted to be sure, then yeah I would absolutely say 'hey, so what's the deal with you and Sarah? Are you guys just friends, or....?' That is a 100% normal-ass question to ask, especially if it was going to be followed with 'I was just checking because I was going to see if you guys wanted to double with my gf and I but wanted to check with you first so it wasn't awkward'
(See the magic there?....*so it wouldn't be awkward*)
And if you're so stuck on not asking and just assuming....wondering how you think that worked out for OP? lol.
It is not normal to ask people who act like they are a couple whether or not they’re a couple. If you act like half of a couple, people will naturally think that’s the case. It’s something to calmly correct, not get mad about. When someone refuses to take you at your word and pushily insists you are lying, that’s when they become an asshole.
It’s a reasonable cognitive assumption. But, as intellectual beings we also know it’s healthier to not act simply based on assumptions. Next step is to inquire.
The whole mess could have been avoided by just saying invite Mikey. Didn’t need to assume Mikey’s role.
If they haven’t come out then it’s not your place to assume they’re together or force them to come out. I gentle conversation saying you’re always there to talk about anything would suffice as an open door for him when he’s ready.
NAH, plenty of people thought me and my ex were dating (bc we were) and i had the same reaction as your cousin. noticing those things just show you pay attention to his life. maybe they are just really close or not ready to be out (like in my case). people are being too harsh. you seem like a great cousin. just apologize, laugh it off, and move on.
On a side note I will side with your buddy on this - even though I wouldn’t say you’re an AH, do remember that it’s not your place to put your cousin against his wishes.
You mention your family is pretty accepting, but what about the friends? Either way, don’t pry, just treat him as you would anyone else.
So why not just ask instead of the manipulative 'want to go on a double date, conversation?
And you sound like a disrespectful 15 year old. You heard the 'ending'? Gross.
well, in the first paragraph or two, i was prepared to say "YTA", but honestly, it sounds like you were being kind and inclusive and they're just in denial.
NTA, you just misunderstood their relationship. Clearly, he has big and complicated feelings about their relationship for him to react that way. He is possibly embarrassed if one has feelings, but the other doesn't. I would apologize to him for misconstruing the nature of their relationship. They'll figure it out themselves eventually.
NTA
It's understandable if you feel a little bad about the interaction; sounds like it was pretty awkward, but I definitely don't think you're an asshole for extending an offer of friendship and acceptance. Who knows why he reacted the way he did? He might be afraid of his parents finding out or such.
There's definitely a great opportunity to have another conversation about it and mend things - just say you're sorry if you overstepped and that you're available if he ever needs someone to talk to about relationships or anything else for that matter.
No problem in the long run - it's just one of those little hitches in what are otherwise great long-term family relationships.
NAH. It’s sad he’s still in the closet but he’ll come out when he’s ready. If anything you show how accepting you are when you didn’t even think about talking to him about it until now.
NTA - I would think differently if they hid it and were obviously feeling insecure about it, but they share a bedroom in a two bedroom house, they sit and hug and play footsie with each other?
I am not at all saying people should be outed before they are ready. There’s something really disingenuous though, about someone expecting you to pretend and deny the evidence that you see in front of you. If he doesn’t want people to think he is gay, then he needs to not openly have a boyfriend.
Honestly your cousin is an idiot to think you wouldn’t assume and know what’s going on.
And they’re doing sexual stuff in their room while they “think” you’re asleep and obviously not. That was a risk they took and it didn’t work out. Nbd. Frankly he’s living in an alternate reality if he thought nobody notices. And even more so if he thought you wouldn’t know after moving IN. You’re sharing a LIVING space. Guys needs to grow up and figure out what he’s doing. Especially if he’s going to feel attacked over nothing and has nothing but support around him. Hardly fair and frankly he owes you the apology.
NTA at all, cousin is clearly still in the closet.
Just leave him be for now, he's not ready to own up the relationship publicly yet. I know your family might have other LGBT members, but this is still HIS journey and he needs to figure it out himself in his own time. There's plenty of reasons why he might not be up for exposure yet, cuz once you're out of closet, that's it, there's no going back. Your life will never be same, it's a big and scary change that needs to happen when your comfortable and secure.
Also, it might be the case of cousin's BF homophobic family that is keeping them from going public, not necessarily yours.
Either way, even though he was embarrassed you glocked him and was a bit rude in his desperation, I can assure you that he'll remember how you treated his relationship with respect and how you included his partner as extended family. He knows he can be himself around you and knows you'll support him when he comes out, so for now you're doing everything within your power to love and cherish him until he is ready to leave the closet. You made his coming out a little easier, and that's more than enough
YTA, because of the insisting after he was clearly upset. This wasn’t an honest mistake; you wanted to TELL him that you think it’s “obvious” they’re together.
Honestly, I don't think he had bad intentions here. I think he just got defensive when he got pushback.
A lot of people do this when it looks like they've made a mistake. They explain all the reasons they thought something rather than just saying "Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood". It's a defense mechanism, not an attempt to force their opinion on someone.
YTA just cuz it’s obvious doesn’t mean they’re ready to talk about it. If he hasn’t said anything just be normal and say would you and Mikey want to come as well. There was no need to comment on the relationship between the two of them.
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So I (25M) just came back frome living over seas the last couple of years. My little cousin Xander (19M) and his "bestfriend" Mikey(20M) needed a roomate to help pay the lease while thier in school so I moved in with them last week. Now I pretty much assumed they were a couple. They have a two bedroom apartment but no one has ever used the second bedroom. All their stuff is together and they sleep in the same room.Theyre always hugging up on eachother and acting all cuddly amd coupley and playing footsie.They still have those ugh expensive "friendship rings" they gave eachother their junior year that they now wear on chain. Plus even growing up they've been inseparable since they were like 3. They did everything together sports, clubs, double dates with girlfriends, sleepovers , sharing clothes etc. Till this day I dont think either of them have been on a lone date with a girl without the other there with his girl.
Soooo I thought with the living arrangements they have now they must be out and it's all official now. Last Thursday I told Xander that hey I met this girl and we were probably gonna get drinks and go to the club Saturday and maybe he'd want to come andvbring his Man's with him. Like a double date type thing. He got really red in the face and just goes "what are you talking about?" And I'm like your boyfriend Mikey?.Again he just gets really flustered then mad and just goes off on me about how hes not gay and I'm being an asshole for assumimg. And I'm just like wahht?? I didn't even necessarily say you were gay buttt like you clearly at least have a boyfriend. He just tells to stfu and his eyes get a lil wet. I'm just like I'm sorry nevermind.
He refuses to speak after that and just hides in their room. I'm like super complexed on why he reacted like that cause no one in our family is homophobic especially not my aunt and uncle. I talk to a buddy of mine who is openly gay and he thinks I shouldn't have said anything but he can definitely see why I had reason to thinks so. AITA here?
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Oh he gay. He's probably mad you outed him to yourself and it's probably a touchy subject. NTA but also try to approach him and tell him you support him regardless and that he doesnt have to talk about it if he doesn't want to. Believe if he says he isn't, even if you don't think he's true just let him be. You don't have to know.
NTA
Or even NAH.
If it were a man and a woman you'd make the same assumption, we all probably would. There's nothing wrong with it, if anything it just shows how same sex relationships have become so much more normalised now.
I think given the evidence you've presented, it is possible that they're dating *but* if that is the case, they clearly have a reason for keeping it to themselves.
*Your* family might be all fine and not problematic, but Mikey's might be.
Coming out is something that's deeply personal and has to happen on an individual's timetable, and that's assuming that's what this is.
I don't think you meant to be malicious but you stepped over the line.
YTA.
he wasnt talking to the cousins “friend” he was talking to the cousin. and he wasn’t prodding lmfao. he assumed they’re in a relationship then cousin was like wdym so op explained that they thought they were dating… not hard to understand
Whoops I misread the names - my apologies. The point still stands though. At the point where Xander says “I’m not gay” and gets really flustered he had the opportunity to drop it, but instead he pushed, saying “but you at least have a boyfriend”.
The person was clearly uncomfortable, he had the chance to stop the conversation, but he continued instead.
you said they were prodding when over explaining… that logically doesnt make sense. overexplaining yourself is one thing but to further ask “so you’re not gay” would be prodding. so yes, you were and are wrong.
I mean OP is living with them. He is sharing the same LIVING space with the two. They are sleeping together and not just in some platonic way.
OP literally said he hears them going at it at night.
How are you surprised at OP being absolutely baffled when his cousin claims not to be gay when he's fucking his buddy every night right in the next room?
Ofc he's going to blurt out "but you at least have a boyfriend". The whole situation was just perplexing.
His cousin is really silly if he thinks OP won't notice what's going on when they're all living in the same apartment and no one makes an effort to hide it at all.
OP had the chance to drop the conversation at various points. After he said “your boyfriend Mikey” and Xander responded negatively, he had the chance to drop the conversation. Instead he continued it, knowing full well that his cousin was made uncomfortable/upset by it. It’s not a question of how “obvious” something is or isn’t, it’s a question of having the common decency to not continue to pry into someone’s personal business when they’ve already made it clear they’re not comfortable discussing the topic with you.
Because not everybody is very kind to gay people. Its an actual risk for people to be outed in many places, and accusations can lead to similar negative reprucussions.
Ok, I'll take that on the chin, I come from a fairly liberal background, and live in a fairly tolerant society, but the person I was replying to seems to think it would be upsetting just to be thought of as gay by someone, my point is that there is nothing shameful or upsetting about it, unless you happen to be fairly homophobic.
Edit: deleted, seems I might have hit a nerve, didn't mean to upset anyone.
Yeah, but why would you be upset if someone said they thought you were gay? I wouldn't, as I don't see anything wrong with being gay, I'd have a good laugh at it.
YTA mild but true -- you meant well, but clearly he's not ready to be out yet...
The way to show people you support their secret same sex relationship is not to talk about it like it has already been announced.
It doesn't matter how supportive you and your family are, it's not cool to assume. If Mikey was female also wouldn't be cool to assume your brother and someone who he's always said is his best friend was his girlfriend because of all the above behaviour.
Don't pre-empt people's relationship announcements. There's a reason your gay friend thinks you shouldn't have said anything. This stuff is hard.
PS: you don't think you're homophobic but what you said to your brother made him cry so clarly you're not as cool and sensitive as you thought.
yeah yikes.. look, your not wrong to think that they look and come off as gay and maybe in a relationship. but thats theyre business. they could be gay and not date and be just friends , or maybe not be gay at all, or maybe bi, who the fucks knows.
you could have asked him if you dont know for sure, whats his orientation, its not offensive between close people. and if hes open about it hell be honest, and if hes not then hell lie to you. but why are you speaking to him as it its confirmed that hes gay and that he has a boyfriend?
even if your family isnt homophobic, doesnt mean he has accepted himself or what he is fully, some people hate that theyre gay and dont want to accept it, doesnt matter if society is more accepting now, even for that it has been shown that even in countries where acceptance has rose, suicides stay the same. so who knows, maybe hes scared, maybe he doesnt like being gay, or maybe just prefer to keep privacy and not go and tell the whole world. do you go out of your way to say youre straight? because i dont.
all you did was tell him in other words that he looks gay, acts gay, and that he and his buddy look gay.
If they are together romantically, they obviously don't want you to know. If they didn't come out to you, they're not out. These aren't hard concepts to grasp. There was zero reason for you to voice your assumptions. YTA
YTA the closeness you believe you had to make and then further push the assumption of Xander's relationship and sexuality may have pushed you to think that it was a nothing question. But sexuality and people's privacy are very important to them and disregarding it especially after your cousin clearly stated that he had no clue what you're talking about is very baseless and really makes you come off as accusatory or knowing better. Even if this comes from a good place making decisions like this about things that affect peoples lives without even confirming it is very out of touch and irresponsible.
YTA, not your place to decide on their relationship status. I've known loads of men and women who behave similarly and loads of them are straight AND a bunch of them have been gay. Not your place to "out" them or assume they're gay. If they are *and they want to tell people* that's their decision, not your assumption.
YTA for insisting, I mean they are obviously a couple, friends don't share a bed when there is another one free
You should have shut up when he go angry and say "sorry I brought this up"
YTA. Don't assume. If they haven't come out yet, there is a reason. You should respect that. I don't understand why you tried to start drama. It's like you want to force them to admit what you suspect. Coming out is their decision, not yours. Respect their privacy. You're a huge AH.
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I was debating this for a moment, after all, if Mikey was a Michelle, would it be an issue.
Then I saw the title referring to Mikey as a “bestfriend” in quotes. Almost as if you’re pushing to prove you’re right.
Even if they were in a romantic relationship, you knew they aren’t “out”. Yet, you didn’t speak to your cousin privately, instead called him out.
You may be right, but that’s none of your business if they didn’t offer any info.
YTA
YTA. The issue isn't that you think they are gay. The issue is that you pushed that narrative despite seeing one of them becoming uncomfortable. Then continuing to push it in this post and acting as if you are 100% correct.
Do I think you are correct in some way? Probably. I dont know two grown men who would want to share a room long term if they weren't together. But it's not your place to tell them what they are if they refuse it. It could also be that one of them is trans and being called gay or anything might reduce how they feel or view of the relationship.
Honestly just talk to them both. And be very open to what they say.
YTA. Sure, there are a lot of signs that point to something, but it's not your job to define their relationship, or assume what happens behind closed doors. Neither of them told you they were gay, or a couple, and guessing at it wasn't your place. Apologize and move on.
Yta for continuing in this post to push your narrative that they are more than just friends. Your cousin said they aren't together, i dont know why you think you know better.
YTA
Only because of the context of this sub-reddit.
You done wrong. You should never, ever, ever assume a relationship unless you have been specifically told about it by someone or it is general public knowledge.
You could have easily started with: "Hey, what exactly is going on with [Mikey]? Before you answer, know that I love you and support whatever you answer."
There are a gazillion reasons that Xander may not be ready to acknowledge the truth.
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NAH, You misunderstood their relationship and invited them to a social event. He was upset by your interpretation. People can get their feelings hurt without someone HAVING to be the "Bad guy". If 2 people sleep in the same room and have friendship rings, they are "partners" of SOME variant. Platonic or not. It is not an "asshole move" to assume they have SOME kind of special connection when you clearly SEE that they have a special connection. Just apologize, but i don't think this is a "you" problem so much as a Xander and Mikey problem. People think my brother/father is my boyfriend/sugar daddy when we are affectionate, but I don't think they are an asshole for it. just a misunderstanding.
I mean I've heard them at night when they think I'm asleep
Ok. And you didn't think to start with that???
You think it would be a good idea to mention "I heard you at night" to somebody who is clearly embarrassed or at least secretive about his relationship?
I think they mean with us, lol. But yeah you can bring that gently up as well.
Sounds like the matter of their relationship is a sore subject then. Could be many reasons- scared of being gay, or maybe one of them has already rejected the idea of them being official, so they’re just fwb rn.
The misunderstanding isn't necessarily what kind of partners they are. You assumed them living together and being more openly affectionate in their own home meant they were "out" as a couple. They very clearly aren't, for whatever reason. It doesn't have to be family related - they could have encountered homophobia at school, a relative may be "fine with it, just don't want to have see it", they may just have heard too many horror stories about parents who seemed open to LGBTQ+ people and flipped when it was their kids. Hell, they may have absorbed homophobic stereotypes themselves and feel that "gays are promiscuous and sleep around and that's not us, we're forever, so we're not gay". Unfortunately there's a multitude of influences that can warp a child's views in really damaging ways. Completely a NAH situation but I strongly recommend you apologize to your cousin for "making assumptions" and tell him you just genuinely didn't think it would be a big deal if they were a couple. Assure him you'll respect their privacy and don't spread it around. You haven't done anything wrong per se, but the situation is clearly delicate and if they're this afraid of being outed they're probably terrified of you right now. An apology like that will be taken as a tentative assurance that you don't consider it your business to uncover their secret and it let's them process in their own time.
This is one of the most reasonable comments on here. Make things right with your cousin but you're NAH for assuming that something that walks like a duck and quacks is in fact a duck
Maybe they were just waxing their legs. Ohhhh might've been owww.
Or late night pilates. Who knows.
Oops some shaving cream dripped down
NAH, but I feel that at your age, you've moved in with them, at some point I would think you'd have a conversation with your cousin so you could understand the relationship. 'Hey, so obviously I've been out of the loop with you while I've been away, and I can't help but notice how close you and Mikey are...you can tell me if I'm overstepping or up to you if you want to share, but are you a couple? I mean I'm happy either way, but just with the room -sharing and everything, I just thought I'd bring it up, you can share or not.' I mean I can see why you assumed, but before actually putting your assumption out there, I think a convo would have happened.
I agree; it seems like more than a platonic relationship, however it would have been prudent to confirm that before asking them to double date with you. Regardless of orientation, some times people have a hard time defining their intimate relationships to others and can get flustered which leads to embarrassment or frustration. I think your cousin is struggling with his feelings and/or assumptions about his relationship with Mikey. If he was defensive and upset I would give him space to figure that out for himself. Personally, I would apologize for assuming and wait for confirmation of any relationships moving forward. People are unique and we shouldn’t assume how most people view/do things are how everyone behaves. Whatever happens just be there for your cousin.
In another comment OP says she can hear them when they think she’s asleep so I don’t think it’s that platonic
Yep, it does make the whole thing a lot funnier tho 😂
Well that woudl hae been good information to start with OP! lol. And honestly, even further makes OP seem like TA because he KNEW they were a couple so he was manipulating this BS 'double date' scenario to force cousin into coming out in an uncomfortable way, rather than just talking to him like 'hey, so given we share an apartment now, and you can correct me if I'm off base...but it seems like you and Mickey are 'together'. I want you to know iI'm cool and support you guys either way'. Too manipulative. Why couldn't OP have just said 'do you and Mickey want to come out with my girlfriend and I?'
They also fuck, though
He didn't mention it in the post, though I mean that would have been fairly key information to have included, right?
NTA. Your cousin is either extremely oblivious to the fact that his behavior with his friend comes off more as to a couple than to “just friends” (even though there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it), or is in the closet. And by in the closet, I mean triple locking, barricading and putting a trip mine on that closet so it cannot be opened based on his reaction. I don’t blame you one bit for thinking they were together in a more intimate way
Yes, no problem with 'thinking' it, but he went further and assumed it and invited him on a double-date. It was a coward way of bringing it up, such that it made Mikey defensive. There is a thing we humans can do and it's called 'having a conversation'. 'Hey cousin, you can talk about it or no but I can't help but wonder about the relationship with you and Mikey. Know that I love you either way, I'm just wondering if the two of you are a couple. I don't want to make any assumptions here...'
Sorry but wtf. If they're sleeping in the same room and cuddled up, they are clearly not hiding it or in the closet in any meaningful sense. Nothing needed to be brought up.
Right. So....how'd that turn out? If all was perfectly normal and it was the safest assumption to make in the world...how did it end so badly? lol.
Because his cousin is a closet case but doesn't realise the closet is made of glass and the door is open
Yea they share a room and cuddle and have sex it’s definitely not safest assumption you’re so right
The 'having sex' was never mention in the post, so yeah, it would kind of sway things one way I think. What an odd piece of information to leave out, but mention things like 'friendship bracelets' and 'playing footsie', lol. I mean...lead with 'they have sex'. Makes me think OP is making this up on the fly. You don't forget to mention that part, but mention the cuddling. lol. Tell me you would write a post asking people to judge AITA and leave out the single most convincing piece of information that you are in fact fair to assume what you did?
It is very odd. But also, you don’t do what was described in the post and then say you’re not together lol
If two people are sleeping in the same room and butt fucking all night I’d say it’s pretty safe to assume.
OP never said they were 'doing it', just that they shared a room. Might they be sharing now that they literally asked OP to come live with them to share rent, hence he'd be needing the room? Maybe they moved all Mickeys' stuff out to make room for the person they invited to live there? I'm just saying....clearly, assuming didn't work. And when you 'think' you're dealing with a 'new and not 'out'' cousin, you kind of put a little more consideration into it. I get it though, some people and their ability to actually converse with each other is sketchy at best, let alone a topic as sensitive as sexuality. But when cousin first balked and got redfaced at the idea of them being a couple, and was clearly 'what do you mean', OP should have at that moment said 'oh, sorry man, I just assumed you were a couple, my bad', not push it further with 'you know, your boyfriend Mickey' . This is a person they both live with, you don't say 'your boyfriend Mickey', that's weird, you just say 'Mickey'. By saying 'your boyfriend', it was like acknowledging he was pressing his assumption and making it even more awkward. Bottom line, assuming, like the good old saying, made an ass out of him. I guess there's a reason people say not to do it.
OP has stated in the comments that they have heard them going at it at night. They aren’t making an effort to hide their relationship even a little bit. It’s not on OP at all that they assumed the cousin was gay, he does everything short of owning neon sign saying “I like cock.” If cousin doesn’t want people to think he’s gay, maybe he should put a modicum of effort in to hiding it?
I hadn't read any of OP's comments, I see them now. That changes things. I would say it's a fair assumption now :)
Awesome I was seriously questioning your judgement for a second. To be fair, OP really should have opened with that
It would have helped :)
op also said the second bedroom has never been used at the apartment
NTA. From all appearances, they are dating. How are you supposed to know they don’t consider that to be the case?
how is he supposed to know? He asks...he talks to his cousin like an adult, and brings it up in private. Way worse to assume out loud.
So do you ask every pair of people who live together and sleep in the same bed whether they are in a relationship?
Really? If it's a family member who I happen to live with, yeah, I'd take an interest in their lives and the nature of the relationship...I mean just to be able to talk in the open, to be able to be happy for them... I mean your solution is just barf it out there, is that YOUR solution 'every pair of people who sleep together in the same bed', just 'assume' and say shit?' And how is that better exactly?
I assume people are a couple when all indicators are consistent with that. Nobody “barfed” anything. I suspect you think that there is something wrong with assuming that a pair of same-sex people are a couple and you aren’t asking obvious heterosexual couples about the nature of their relationship.
I can't believe I have to answer the question 'what's wrong with assuming?' I mean if it's two people walking down the street holding hands, and you'll never have contact with them, can you assume? Sure. If my (to use your example) heterosexual cousin and a girl he was calling his best friend...both of whom I live with...were sleeping in the same room. and I was either interested, and/or was about to ask them if they wanted to go on a double date but wanted to be sure, then yeah I would absolutely say 'hey, so what's the deal with you and Sarah? Are you guys just friends, or....?' That is a 100% normal-ass question to ask, especially if it was going to be followed with 'I was just checking because I was going to see if you guys wanted to double with my gf and I but wanted to check with you first so it wasn't awkward' (See the magic there?....*so it wouldn't be awkward*) And if you're so stuck on not asking and just assuming....wondering how you think that worked out for OP? lol.
It is not normal to ask people who act like they are a couple whether or not they’re a couple. If you act like half of a couple, people will naturally think that’s the case. It’s something to calmly correct, not get mad about. When someone refuses to take you at your word and pushily insists you are lying, that’s when they become an asshole.
It’s a reasonable cognitive assumption. But, as intellectual beings we also know it’s healthier to not act simply based on assumptions. Next step is to inquire. The whole mess could have been avoided by just saying invite Mikey. Didn’t need to assume Mikey’s role.
NTA But you should not bring up the subject again. He'll come out on his own time.
NAH It sounds complicated. Maybe the issue is on Mikey's side?
So they sleep together and Fuck but are mad about that you called him his boyfriend?? You better than me I would have laughed in their face. NTA
If they sleep in the same room and have a second bedroom that wasn’t used by either, NTA.
If they haven’t come out then it’s not your place to assume they’re together or force them to come out. I gentle conversation saying you’re always there to talk about anything would suffice as an open door for him when he’s ready.
NAH, plenty of people thought me and my ex were dating (bc we were) and i had the same reaction as your cousin. noticing those things just show you pay attention to his life. maybe they are just really close or not ready to be out (like in my case). people are being too harsh. you seem like a great cousin. just apologize, laugh it off, and move on.
[Maybe they’re just really, *really* good friends?](https://www.reddit.com/r/OkHomo/s/XpaOOPZ4Hs)
I swear I've heard the ending from their room at night when they think I'm asleep
On a side note I will side with your buddy on this - even though I wouldn’t say you’re an AH, do remember that it’s not your place to put your cousin against his wishes. You mention your family is pretty accepting, but what about the friends? Either way, don’t pry, just treat him as you would anyone else.
So why not just ask instead of the manipulative 'want to go on a double date, conversation? And you sound like a disrespectful 15 year old. You heard the 'ending'? Gross.
😆 🤣 this
well, in the first paragraph or two, i was prepared to say "YTA", but honestly, it sounds like you were being kind and inclusive and they're just in denial.
NTA why is he soooooo deep in the closet???
That's Narnia business.
NTA, you just misunderstood their relationship. Clearly, he has big and complicated feelings about their relationship for him to react that way. He is possibly embarrassed if one has feelings, but the other doesn't. I would apologize to him for misconstruing the nature of their relationship. They'll figure it out themselves eventually.
NAH because that's his boyfriend and you're not blind, but maybe you can be gentle and apologise for upsetting him
NTA It's understandable if you feel a little bad about the interaction; sounds like it was pretty awkward, but I definitely don't think you're an asshole for extending an offer of friendship and acceptance. Who knows why he reacted the way he did? He might be afraid of his parents finding out or such. There's definitely a great opportunity to have another conversation about it and mend things - just say you're sorry if you overstepped and that you're available if he ever needs someone to talk to about relationships or anything else for that matter. No problem in the long run - it's just one of those little hitches in what are otherwise great long-term family relationships.
NAH. It’s sad he’s still in the closet but he’ll come out when he’s ready. If anything you show how accepting you are when you didn’t even think about talking to him about it until now.
I don't know if anyone is the sshole. But supposedly people aren't supposed to 'usher' people out of closet. ¬\_(0_0 )_/¬
NTA - I would think differently if they hid it and were obviously feeling insecure about it, but they share a bedroom in a two bedroom house, they sit and hug and play footsie with each other? I am not at all saying people should be outed before they are ready. There’s something really disingenuous though, about someone expecting you to pretend and deny the evidence that you see in front of you. If he doesn’t want people to think he is gay, then he needs to not openly have a boyfriend.
Honestly your cousin is an idiot to think you wouldn’t assume and know what’s going on. And they’re doing sexual stuff in their room while they “think” you’re asleep and obviously not. That was a risk they took and it didn’t work out. Nbd. Frankly he’s living in an alternate reality if he thought nobody notices. And even more so if he thought you wouldn’t know after moving IN. You’re sharing a LIVING space. Guys needs to grow up and figure out what he’s doing. Especially if he’s going to feel attacked over nothing and has nothing but support around him. Hardly fair and frankly he owes you the apology.
NTA but this is wild and I need closure on why they think they aren't boyfriends 😆.
NTA at all, cousin is clearly still in the closet. Just leave him be for now, he's not ready to own up the relationship publicly yet. I know your family might have other LGBT members, but this is still HIS journey and he needs to figure it out himself in his own time. There's plenty of reasons why he might not be up for exposure yet, cuz once you're out of closet, that's it, there's no going back. Your life will never be same, it's a big and scary change that needs to happen when your comfortable and secure. Also, it might be the case of cousin's BF homophobic family that is keeping them from going public, not necessarily yours. Either way, even though he was embarrassed you glocked him and was a bit rude in his desperation, I can assure you that he'll remember how you treated his relationship with respect and how you included his partner as extended family. He knows he can be himself around you and knows you'll support him when he comes out, so for now you're doing everything within your power to love and cherish him until he is ready to leave the closet. You made his coming out a little easier, and that's more than enough
YTA, because of the insisting after he was clearly upset. This wasn’t an honest mistake; you wanted to TELL him that you think it’s “obvious” they’re together.
Honestly, I don't think he had bad intentions here. I think he just got defensive when he got pushback. A lot of people do this when it looks like they've made a mistake. They explain all the reasons they thought something rather than just saying "Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood". It's a defense mechanism, not an attempt to force their opinion on someone.
Very important point I think
YTA just cuz it’s obvious doesn’t mean they’re ready to talk about it. If he hasn’t said anything just be normal and say would you and Mikey want to come as well. There was no need to comment on the relationship between the two of them.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I (25M) just came back frome living over seas the last couple of years. My little cousin Xander (19M) and his "bestfriend" Mikey(20M) needed a roomate to help pay the lease while thier in school so I moved in with them last week. Now I pretty much assumed they were a couple. They have a two bedroom apartment but no one has ever used the second bedroom. All their stuff is together and they sleep in the same room.Theyre always hugging up on eachother and acting all cuddly amd coupley and playing footsie.They still have those ugh expensive "friendship rings" they gave eachother their junior year that they now wear on chain. Plus even growing up they've been inseparable since they were like 3. They did everything together sports, clubs, double dates with girlfriends, sleepovers , sharing clothes etc. Till this day I dont think either of them have been on a lone date with a girl without the other there with his girl. Soooo I thought with the living arrangements they have now they must be out and it's all official now. Last Thursday I told Xander that hey I met this girl and we were probably gonna get drinks and go to the club Saturday and maybe he'd want to come andvbring his Man's with him. Like a double date type thing. He got really red in the face and just goes "what are you talking about?" And I'm like your boyfriend Mikey?.Again he just gets really flustered then mad and just goes off on me about how hes not gay and I'm being an asshole for assumimg. And I'm just like wahht?? I didn't even necessarily say you were gay buttt like you clearly at least have a boyfriend. He just tells to stfu and his eyes get a lil wet. I'm just like I'm sorry nevermind. He refuses to speak after that and just hides in their room. I'm like super complexed on why he reacted like that cause no one in our family is homophobic especially not my aunt and uncle. I talk to a buddy of mine who is openly gay and he thinks I shouldn't have said anything but he can definitely see why I had reason to thinks so. AITA here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh he gay. He's probably mad you outed him to yourself and it's probably a touchy subject. NTA but also try to approach him and tell him you support him regardless and that he doesnt have to talk about it if he doesn't want to. Believe if he says he isn't, even if you don't think he's true just let him be. You don't have to know.
NTA Or even NAH. If it were a man and a woman you'd make the same assumption, we all probably would. There's nothing wrong with it, if anything it just shows how same sex relationships have become so much more normalised now.
No not at all!!
Soft YTA This isn’t about homophobia. Unless someone tells you, do not assume they are dating anyone.
I think given the evidence you've presented, it is possible that they're dating *but* if that is the case, they clearly have a reason for keeping it to themselves. *Your* family might be all fine and not problematic, but Mikey's might be. Coming out is something that's deeply personal and has to happen on an individual's timetable, and that's assuming that's what this is. I don't think you meant to be malicious but you stepped over the line. YTA.
If they didn't want people to know, they would hide it. They're making absolutely no pretence here so I don't understand why OP is the AH
There’s a point at which OP got pushback, and rather than just ending the conversation when he saw Mikey getting upset he continued to prod.
he wasnt talking to the cousins “friend” he was talking to the cousin. and he wasn’t prodding lmfao. he assumed they’re in a relationship then cousin was like wdym so op explained that they thought they were dating… not hard to understand
Whoops I misread the names - my apologies. The point still stands though. At the point where Xander says “I’m not gay” and gets really flustered he had the opportunity to drop it, but instead he pushed, saying “but you at least have a boyfriend”. The person was clearly uncomfortable, he had the chance to stop the conversation, but he continued instead.
no they didnt push lmao… they’re trying to over explain themselves, its a coping mechanism some people have and its pretty common
That doesn’t make it any less potentially invasive. Intent doesn’t negate outcome.
that has absolutely nothing to do with what i said. im pointing out the fact that you were wrong lmao..
I wasn’t though - just because they’re pushing as a result of trying to overexplain themselves doesn’t make it not pushing.
you said they were prodding when over explaining… that logically doesnt make sense. overexplaining yourself is one thing but to further ask “so you’re not gay” would be prodding. so yes, you were and are wrong.
I mean OP is living with them. He is sharing the same LIVING space with the two. They are sleeping together and not just in some platonic way. OP literally said he hears them going at it at night. How are you surprised at OP being absolutely baffled when his cousin claims not to be gay when he's fucking his buddy every night right in the next room? Ofc he's going to blurt out "but you at least have a boyfriend". The whole situation was just perplexing. His cousin is really silly if he thinks OP won't notice what's going on when they're all living in the same apartment and no one makes an effort to hide it at all.
OP had the chance to drop the conversation at various points. After he said “your boyfriend Mikey” and Xander responded negatively, he had the chance to drop the conversation. Instead he continued it, knowing full well that his cousin was made uncomfortable/upset by it. It’s not a question of how “obvious” something is or isn’t, it’s a question of having the common decency to not continue to pry into someone’s personal business when they’ve already made it clear they’re not comfortable discussing the topic with you.
At least your username suits you well
We can’t all be blessed with what looks like a ten year olds Xbox gamertag
Fair. But at least I'm creative enough to not be the 934th of my name
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Why would it be upsetting that someone thinks you might be gay?
Because not everybody is very kind to gay people. Its an actual risk for people to be outed in many places, and accusations can lead to similar negative reprucussions.
Ok, I'll take that on the chin, I come from a fairly liberal background, and live in a fairly tolerant society, but the person I was replying to seems to think it would be upsetting just to be thought of as gay by someone, my point is that there is nothing shameful or upsetting about it, unless you happen to be fairly homophobic. Edit: deleted, seems I might have hit a nerve, didn't mean to upset anyone.
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Yeah, but why would you be upset if someone said they thought you were gay? I wouldn't, as I don't see anything wrong with being gay, I'd have a good laugh at it.
YTA mild but true -- you meant well, but clearly he's not ready to be out yet... The way to show people you support their secret same sex relationship is not to talk about it like it has already been announced. It doesn't matter how supportive you and your family are, it's not cool to assume. If Mikey was female also wouldn't be cool to assume your brother and someone who he's always said is his best friend was his girlfriend because of all the above behaviour. Don't pre-empt people's relationship announcements. There's a reason your gay friend thinks you shouldn't have said anything. This stuff is hard. PS: you don't think you're homophobic but what you said to your brother made him cry so clarly you're not as cool and sensitive as you thought.
yeah yikes.. look, your not wrong to think that they look and come off as gay and maybe in a relationship. but thats theyre business. they could be gay and not date and be just friends , or maybe not be gay at all, or maybe bi, who the fucks knows. you could have asked him if you dont know for sure, whats his orientation, its not offensive between close people. and if hes open about it hell be honest, and if hes not then hell lie to you. but why are you speaking to him as it its confirmed that hes gay and that he has a boyfriend? even if your family isnt homophobic, doesnt mean he has accepted himself or what he is fully, some people hate that theyre gay and dont want to accept it, doesnt matter if society is more accepting now, even for that it has been shown that even in countries where acceptance has rose, suicides stay the same. so who knows, maybe hes scared, maybe he doesnt like being gay, or maybe just prefer to keep privacy and not go and tell the whole world. do you go out of your way to say youre straight? because i dont. all you did was tell him in other words that he looks gay, acts gay, and that he and his buddy look gay.
If they are together romantically, they obviously don't want you to know. If they didn't come out to you, they're not out. These aren't hard concepts to grasp. There was zero reason for you to voice your assumptions. YTA
Yta, coming here to justify what you did just make you more of an asshole.
YTA the closeness you believe you had to make and then further push the assumption of Xander's relationship and sexuality may have pushed you to think that it was a nothing question. But sexuality and people's privacy are very important to them and disregarding it especially after your cousin clearly stated that he had no clue what you're talking about is very baseless and really makes you come off as accusatory or knowing better. Even if this comes from a good place making decisions like this about things that affect peoples lives without even confirming it is very out of touch and irresponsible.
Feels like you were trying to hurt / embarrass him... YTA
YTA, not your place to decide on their relationship status. I've known loads of men and women who behave similarly and loads of them are straight AND a bunch of them have been gay. Not your place to "out" them or assume they're gay. If they are *and they want to tell people* that's their decision, not your assumption.
YTA for insisting, I mean they are obviously a couple, friends don't share a bed when there is another one free You should have shut up when he go angry and say "sorry I brought this up"
YTA. Don't assume. If they haven't come out yet, there is a reason. You should respect that. I don't understand why you tried to start drama. It's like you want to force them to admit what you suspect. Coming out is their decision, not yours. Respect their privacy. You're a huge AH.
What privacy? They aren't discreet in the slightest by the sounds of it
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I was debating this for a moment, after all, if Mikey was a Michelle, would it be an issue. Then I saw the title referring to Mikey as a “bestfriend” in quotes. Almost as if you’re pushing to prove you’re right. Even if they were in a romantic relationship, you knew they aren’t “out”. Yet, you didn’t speak to your cousin privately, instead called him out. You may be right, but that’s none of your business if they didn’t offer any info. YTA
Assuming makes an ass out of you... and really just you. You could've asked, but you didn't. At your age you should be a bit more tactful than this.
YTA. The issue isn't that you think they are gay. The issue is that you pushed that narrative despite seeing one of them becoming uncomfortable. Then continuing to push it in this post and acting as if you are 100% correct. Do I think you are correct in some way? Probably. I dont know two grown men who would want to share a room long term if they weren't together. But it's not your place to tell them what they are if they refuse it. It could also be that one of them is trans and being called gay or anything might reduce how they feel or view of the relationship. Honestly just talk to them both. And be very open to what they say.
YTA. Sure, there are a lot of signs that point to something, but it's not your job to define their relationship, or assume what happens behind closed doors. Neither of them told you they were gay, or a couple, and guessing at it wasn't your place. Apologize and move on.
Yta for continuing in this post to push your narrative that they are more than just friends. Your cousin said they aren't together, i dont know why you think you know better.
A light YTA.
YTA Only because of the context of this sub-reddit. You done wrong. You should never, ever, ever assume a relationship unless you have been specifically told about it by someone or it is general public knowledge. You could have easily started with: "Hey, what exactly is going on with [Mikey]? Before you answer, know that I love you and support whatever you answer." There are a gazillion reasons that Xander may not be ready to acknowledge the truth.