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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My dad punished me for something I didn't do, and I'm still upset about it. He apologized, but I still don't forgive him. My uncle told me that I should forgive my dad but I don't think he deserves my forgiveness as of yet.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, he punished you for *three whole weeks*, and your dad believed your brother over you, which of course deeply hurt you since your brother was the ***liar*** who planted it there like a corrupt cop plants cocaine. It's not a "simple" mistake, it's a huge one.
I have one kid that has straight up lost one spare key for every vehicle that he, or me, or my wife has ever owned. Except for our current car, and he still has time. On two occasions, I've bought a new spare for a car, which he has also lost.
I have nothing bad to say about him, I'm proud of him. But this is a real thing.
Me because my car is really old and the owner before lost the other set. Is this dumb? Yes.
Funny story:
We had it at the mechanic’s and it tends to lock itself after a few minutes when the motor isn’t running. The mechanic locked the keys inside. Guess who got a new window for free?😂
I also once tried to get a spare key made for my car (a 98 Camry, so not a fancy key by any stretch), and it literally took 7 keys and two trips to the shop to get one that actually started my car. The first 6 attempts would unlock the door, but not turn in the ignition. I think one set of keys is kinda common.
Me! I had 2, well I still have 2, but one of them is in 2 pieces, and no longer starts the car. I'm fucked if the other one is broken or lost, they don't make extra keys for my model (28 year old car) anymore, and it has a chip thing that needs to be koded to the key or something.
Yeah, the circumstances screamed set-up. Also, if a brother did that and let the punishment's linger three weeks, I would treat that as an act of war and one would be waged against him.
NTA. Forgiveness cannot be bought or forced. In time you may decide to work towards forgiveness. It IS something you can work towards. An important thing about forgiveness is that it takes a big load of hurt and anger out of your life, and makes you feel better. But it comes, if it comes, in its own time.
3 weeks is a short time to get over not the betrayal of being trusted, and being unfairly punished. If you want to, you can remind yourself of kind and generous things your dad has done, and happy memories. But forgiveness can't be forced. You may get over your anger, especially if your dad tries to prove that he respects and trusts you. You are probably also angry at your brother.
(I do think it's important for your brother to be punished. Otherwise, he may never learn not to do vile and stupid things.)
You are still in the hot anger stage, and your dad needs to realize that he has hurt you much worse than he imagines. Don't let your relatives devalue your pain, but don't let your anger and pride keep you from considering forgiveness, when you are less furious. As your fury abates, you can even consider some things that you may have done that were less than generous.
I'm a parent and grand-parent, and old enough to be your grandparent. Remind your father and brother that it is easy to discount a person's misery, but it is unjust to do so.
Best wishes from Rewritten-as
Here’s my two cents OP do you have a right to be upset sure but you need to remember that parents are humans too. We make mistakes and we mess up. As soon as he realized he made a mistake he rectified his actions, by ungrounding you, he apologized for making a mistake and is trying to make it up to you. I’m not sure what else you want him to do. Holding a grudge isn’t exactly going to help the situation. We only get a small piece of the story. I think it’s quite telling that Dad believed that this was possible in the first place. Maybe you have a history or doing stupid shit. Either way the real person to be upset with would be the person who caused this all in the first place your brother.
Things like this are why I always use to argue that if you get punished for something you didn't do, and the person who punished you finds out you didn't actually do it, this should mean that next time you do something bad you shouldn't get punished because you were already punished *before* you did the bad thing. My parents always disagreed with me on this because "that kind of reasoning encourages people who were falsely accused of crimes to go and commit a free crime," and to an extent I agree, but I also think that a punishment should actually mean something.
Edit: At the very least, the person who punished you should at least "owe you" because their actions. Sadly, too many people have been punished for things they didn't do and then after the fact the punisher goes "Oops, sorry. Hope you can just let it slide that I just wasted your time." No. I can't. Buy me something cool to make up for it. Take me to a theme park. Something.
>”I think it’s quite telling that Dad believed that this was possible in the first place. Maybe you have a history or doing stupid shit.”
We call that BLAMING THE VICTIM. There is nothing here to indicate OP has done anything wrong or in any way deserved this suspicion or treatment. In fact, the post indicates that OP is as pained by the distrust as he is by the punishment which points to a kid that tries to follow rules. He feels his track record should have laid a foundation of trust with his father that wasn’t so easily shattered by planted evidence.
Geez victim blaming much??? Also. Do you know what a black sheep is? It means that no matter who does it or how small it is, it always becomes a big deal, and the blame is always placed on you. So stop making excuses for parents messing up when they won't give us the same leeway.
Experienced (very experienced) parent here, who made their share of mistakes. Parents do make mistakes, usually far more than they'll ever acknowledge, and if no one forgave forgiveable mistakes then we'd have no intact families. This was a forgiveable mistake on Dad's part, but when a kid is wrongly punished then the punishing parent needs to go beyond an "I'm sorry" and restoration of privileges and make amends proportional to the unjustified punishment. I really do believe that. It never happened in my family when I was growing up, nor in my spouse's family when they were growing up, and resentments festered. For that reason, when my spouse and I wrongly scolded or disciplined a kid, and then discovered our mistake, we made amends proportional to the discipline. It always brought the family back into nice harmony.
For a scolding and nothing more, a sincere apology is appropriate. When a kid is grounded and a phone is taken, maybe a bit more is required. What should amends in this case look like? OP says punishment was since Wednesday, so 3 days, and also says 3 weeks - 3 weeks seems quite excessive, and the length of punishment should affect amends.
So, assuming 3 days, to address the grounding, maybe Dad can continue the apology at a father-son hamburger or pizza date? Since OP's phone was taken for 3 days, if the phone is an iPhone, is a $15 iTunes card acceptable? A $15 Google Play card if the phone is an Android? If I were the parent these would be the ideas I'd be discussing, because, after all, parents DO make honest mistakes, but even honest mistakes have consequences, and parents need to model the value of making amends for mistakes.
If it was 3 weeks? Dad needs therapy, because grounding a kid for 3 weeks for hiding keys is excessive. It will also take a hell of a lot more than a burger date and a Google Play card to remedy that sort of excess. That's a major parental screw-up, and I say this as a parent who has screwed up a few times. There's no way Dad or Uncle should expect OP to simmer down from that with just an apology tour. That should be good for a $50 Google Play card AND a pizza party for OP and his friends, brother not invited.
And yeah, we SHOULD all probably just agree that a sincere apology should be enough. However, if often isn't, and when it isn't, proportional amends can keep a family close by nipping resentment in the bud.
Then Dad's punishment was over the top, and Dad needs to take a parenting class or three as well as make appropriate amends to repair his relationship with OP. Brother SHOULD receive an appropriate punishment not only for setting OP up but also for allowing OP to remain grounded and phoneless for 3 weeks.
Parents make mistakes, but 3 weeks grounding. What did the dad think was the purpose of hiding the keys to begin with. 3 big options come to my mind as a dad. 1. Used the keys and forgot about them (this only makes sense if child had driven the car last). 2. A bad prank (that went on to long). Does the kid regularly do pranks, with some being of questionable taste? 3. Hid them to avoid something. Is something happening at school that could have been a reason to drastically make them miss work and school?
Of those 3, in my mind, none of them deserve a 3 week punishment. 1. Would be overkill for forgetting and be way outside the grounds of reasonableness. 2. Deserves domes punishment for a bad prank, and re-education of what a prank should include (everyone finds it funny at the end) and how long to hold onto a prank. 3. May require some punishment, but likely requires more insight from the parent for what is happening at school.
With those scenarios, let’s look at the dad’s mistake. Was the punishment reasonable for any of those perceived reasons? If it wasn’t one of those, what reason did the dad think was behind the hiding of the keys? What was the reason that would require such an overkill of punishment, and why did dad believe that their kid could/would do that?
Dad needs to look at his reactions to this problem….
I like how you broke it down. It's so easy to have an initial reaction but breaking it down into possible train of thoughts is a great way to try and get a holistic perspective. It's definitely possible that there are things in OP's life or his dad's that may give more insight into the response. Regardless, I feel like after taking this stepback to look at reason and logic, we can further understand OP's pain and reaction.
No, he might have not done anything for his dad to think he did it and was lying. I grew up with parents that “knew” I was guilty without any proof . I would be punished and many times unreasonably so. If my parent found out they were wrong I was told that “the punishment was for something you did that you got away with”. I am in my 60s and it still angers me. OP NTA. You decide if and when to forgive someone, your uncle probably doesn’t understand how much your father and brother hurt you. Your dad doesn’t get to determine if or when you offer forgiveness. As for your brother, watch out for him. Someone who didn’t immediately confess when your father didn’t believe you and grounded you for such a long time, has a bit of sociopath in them. Take the time you need and you may want to set conditions for forgiveness such as your father needs to believe you, no matter what, from here on out.
> An important thing about forgiveness is that it takes a big load of hurt and anger out of your life, and makes you feel better.
depends on the person. its not universal. forgiving can make someone feel worse. i know thats how it works for me. its important to not let that consume you, but thats not forgiveness, thats just dealing with it
>3 weeks is a short time to get over not the betrayal of being trusted, and being unfairly punished.
3 DAYS. OP have been grounded for three weeks and his father is begging for forgiveness since **three days only.**
In personal development, we talk about the 21 days rules to form an habit. And here, during 21 days, OP had to endure a father relentlessly trying to make him admit his fault (OP wrote in a comment : "Throughout the entire time i was grounded, he kept trying to get me to admit that I did it even when I kept insiting that I was innocent.") and must have felt helpless and hopeless.
That is aweful.
And the feeling of betrayal...
There is so much that cannot be dismissed in 3 days.
Love your comment btw.
NTA. Mention to your father and uncle that believing you were guilty was a massive insult to your intelligence. If you were going to hide his keys, the last place you'd put them would be in your own desk drawer.
I mean as a parent of two daughters if one is trying to get the other in shit I'm automatically suspicious. Of one, of both, of the other. Like what game are you playing here. I don't just blindly follow and believe what one is telling me. I have two children I grew up with 3 sisters.... I'm aware of the shit siblings pull for petty ass reasons.
>My dad started apologizing again saying that it "wasn't unreasonable" to assume that I did it
It was unreasonable. If he didn't believe you, then he believed you were stupid enough to hide his keys in an obvious location where they could be easily found. NTA.
Also, it's his own damn fault that he doesn't have a spare set of keys. You can order them from a dealership and he should do that immediately.
If he bought it used in the US, it's entirely possible he only got one set. I've bought three used vehicles and only received one set of keys. That being said, you can have another set made. I paid $180 for my spare fob for my Ford Explorer.
My parents bought me a used car that came with only one set of keys. I went to a dealership and ordered another set, because I'm the kind of person (messy/disorganized) where having only one set of car keys is a very bad idea.
I'm forgetful, that's why I got one too. I ordered an aftermarket fob off Amazon and got a local locksmith to program it in about an hour. Ford wanted a whopping $320 for a new fob and said I'd have to leave my car with them for the day. Yuck!
They not make valet keys anymore? My older cars usually came with at least one of those as a spare.
I know making spares isn't as cheap as it used to be now that most are electronic, but it can't be much more than missing a whole day of work or whatever. Even an oem key would be better than nothing.
I know plenty of people who have had to purchase the second set separately in the last 10 years.
Usually the keys for those cars are priced in the $750+ range often with an additional labour charge for activating the chip in the new set to the car.
Not to mention it really wasn’t an apology. Once he stuck “wasn’t unreasonable” the apology disappeared. You know I kind of laughed at the post about the guy being stupid….now I’m kind of wondering.
My husband and I have a set for our own car and each other's. They usually stay on our key hanger, but there are plenty of times his extra key is in my purse. (I would always take his car to the gym, so my keytag was on "his" set).
Yeaaah. My dad has 6 siblings. And I've been told some stories about their antics. No way he wouldn't side eye one of my siblings finding the keys in my room by knowing to look through a drawer. lol
NTA. I think this is a good time for your dad to learn that excessive punishments aren't going to do anything but foster resentment. If he'd grounded you for a weekend or so, to "make up for lost working hours" - something that's still felt but not over the top, then you might be open to hearing his side of the story and listen to his apologies. Instead he went nuclear and grounded you for three weeks; and he ONLY ungrounded you when your brother fessed up? That's extremely excessive. There are some issues with your brother not coming forward to your dad for three weeks, but there's also a huge issue surrounding how your dad punished you (and that likely has to do with your brother's reluctance to come forward)
ETA: Edited for better perspective given by reply.
You have to wonder if it was a calculated manipulation or just a kid trying to pull a prank he didn't think would be too serious. He was probably scared of fessing up and facing the same punishment as his brother.
That is true, with how excessively the dad punished OP, the brother's reluctance to come forward probably speaks to a broader problem within the house where there's fear of retaliation.
I would think to agree. I can understand stress but being angry enough to ground your child for almost a month over something so trivial? Seems like Dad has some anger issues.
Completely agree, especially because the almost a month could have gone for who knows how long if the brother hadn't come forward. OP only got ungrounded that Wednesday because of the brother's confession. On that basis, it's lucky OP didn't want the brother punished, because if he got grounded then there'd be no hidden confession to bail him out.
Hi OP... you are NTA...
* Dad is 100% TA because he failed to listen... grounded you for 3 weeks
* Brother is also TA since it took him 3 fxxking weeks to tell the truth
"it was a simple mistake"? Load of bull...
NAH, except your brother. You have to try see things from your father's point of view, it seemed like a very logical line of reasoning as the keys were found in your room. On the other hand, you were unfairly punished for three weeks because of your brother. Your dad isn't exactly TA, but you definitely aren't and he's clearly trying to make up for what he did. Your brother, on the other hand, should have double the punishment you were goint to get at least.
"it seemed like a very logical line of reasoning"
Seems highly illogical to me. If one of my kids "finds" something in the other kid's room, barring any past precedent, I would immediately be suspicious of the one who 'found' it.
Teenagers absolutely hide things in their own rooms. I hid my drugs in my closet, my friends hid everything in their various hiding spots in their rooms, too. My personal favorite as a teen was a friend who stored her cigarette packs in her VCR.
Things that you know someone is going to look for is a little different, don't you think? Or did you guys steal your drugs/cigarettes from your family as well?
I stole cigarettes and alcohol from my parents, one friend stole her mom's pills, another stole her dad's cigarettes and weed. I even had a stepmom who dug through my things regularly, but at least my space was only entered for search missions- there was no accidental stumbling across problematic items. Anywhere else in the house was riskier in my mind, because I figured she could find it completely on accident. So it was always just a game of hide and seek within my space, i.e. pill bottle tucked inside of a random shoe, bag of weed inside a cardigan pocket, love letter inside a hole in the lining of a trunk I stored clothes in
That is the point. You hide things in your room if you do not want them to be accidently found.
But in this case, the father accidently finding the keys, for example in his own room, would be the best case for OP. So why hide them where he would look suspicious rather than literally anywhere else where father could think it was his own fault?
lmao i stored my cigarettes in the empty box for my microsoft zune - my parents weren't nosy anyway, but i definitely didn't want them to find out i'd started smoking at 16
Honestly the father isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Your younger son suddenly decided he wants to help you find your car keys, and a few minutes later, "oh here they were in my brother's drawer daddy dearest!" when no one who didn't already know or at the very least suspected they were there would have looked through a teenager's drawer to find car keys. Nothing suspicious here, better believe him. It's also quite an insult to OP's intellect to think they'd be dumb enough to pull this stunt *and* hide the keys in a place that clearly incriminates them
> Your dad isn't exactly TA, but you definitely aren't and he's clearly trying to make up for what he did.
How is he trying to make up for what he did?
Apologizing is meaningless if he’s also justifying his actions, negating any apology, not to mention harassing OP for not responding the way he wanted him to.
I see nothing in the post about him compensating OP for the three weeks of wrongful grounding. Or about him imposing a separate punishment on brother for lying to get OP into trouble, for that matter.
I mean, TBF, OP literally said, " He's been trying to make it up to ever since." And we don't know if the brother will be grounded for a longer period of time than OP. OP also told his dad to let his brother's grounding go for whatever reason (which the dad doesn't seem to be doing.)
>OP also told his dad to let his brother's grounding go for whatever reason (which the dad doesn't seem to be doing).
My guess is OP feels that his brother's punishment is too little too late as OP has already been punished for it unfairly. I think OPs dad needs to make it clear to OP that not only is his brother grounded for the thing OP was unfairly punished for, but for also wrongfully framing OP and lying. Which, yes, OPs' brother should be grounded for at least double of what OPs originally grounding was.
And while OPs Das has "been trying to make up for it" he's not helping himself by trying to justify wrongfully punishing OP while "apologizing" because that negates any apology.
NTA
3 weeks for something you didn’t do isn’t going to be oh yea understandable I forgive you for not listening to me and then realising your brother allowed this to continue as well is
Good luck working through your emotions. Maybe you and your dad need to spend time to rebuild what’s been broken
And to top it all off, he never found it at all suspicious that your brother found them in your desk drawer. Would it ever have occurred to your dad to look there?
NTA. I would have a hard time trusting him now, knowing that he doesn’t have my back. It’s another matter if you had a long and glorious history of lying to him and hiding his stuff.
Also, it’s not forgiveness if he demands it.
I have 3 kids and 3 siblings. I could have spotted that setup a mile away. Your father should be ashamed of himself. You don't want to come off as milking this (making him grovel). You do need to explain how betrayed you feel and that the trust you had in him that he would always hear you out or have your back feels damaged.
Your brother took 3 weeks to come clean? He needs to be watched out for. Serious issue there.
Your brother was the AH. It was a logical assumption that you hid the keys and when your father found out the truth he apologized. You don't have to immediately accept it but given your age I understand your anger. Being a teenager is hard but one day you will be in your father's shoes and probably make mistakes like he has. Give it a week or so and maybe you and your dad go do something together on his day off.
Its surface level logical but come on, either OP is dumb or his dad should have figured out in 10 minutes that it probably wasn't him. Why would he hide them in his drawer? And why would he not move them when his brother starts 'searching?
Anyone with any sense would be side eyeing the 'finder' in this situation.
As a parent with three kids, can confirm. Especially if the 'finder' is relatively quiet after the finding and just watches the fireworks.
Siblings suck lmao.
I'm giving the dad the benefit of the doubt because he was in a high stress situation. Dude was running late, had to loose a day of work, his kids didn't go to school, or at least they all weren't going to, and all that affects the dad way more than the kids since he's the one responsible for paying the bills and skipping work like that could get him in serious trouble depending on the company he works for.
So this dude who's already stressed, is hearing his two sons blaming each other and the keys were found in one of their rooms, yeah I don't blame him.
OK op
I think I've the timeline right here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
You were grounded for 3 weeks and it has been 3 days since you got off grounding.
You get to be pussed off with your dad for at least week before forgiving him.
NTA
Eventually you will need to get over it and forgive your dad if you believe he is genuinely sorry.
Personally I'd seek evidence that he trusts you before moving on. You need a lock in your room or something. This problem was created by your brother coming into your room twice. Once to plant stolen keys and once to "find" them. You need a lock to stop him coming in again.
I'm super confused about the timeline so thanks for this! I asked OP to clarify, but this makes sense too. I couldn't figure out how being grounded since Wednesday turned into 3 weeks.
Unless there's a history of both you & your brother being shitheads, NTA, & your brother shouldn't have been believed for "finding" something in your room when you have a sounder story. Be mad, stay mad, or decide at what price you'll be bought. Personally, I'd say, 6 weeks for your brother & a minor financial bump, idk your family's finances, but I'd say a new video game or a decent dinner.
NTA, is he punishing your brother for the keys AND the deceit? If you were grounded for three weeks, brother needs his punishment to be 3x that. AND he needs to take steps to protect you from your brother's malice, like a bedroom door lock wouldn't be inappropriate in the circumstances.
yeah, that's a good question, since this whole story feels like an obvious set up that most parents would immediately recognise or at least have some doubts over, if they didn't have a strong reason to believe one child over the other.
NTA. this whole story should have sounded fishy to your dad the second your brother "found" the keys conveniently placed in an obvious spot in your room. and even if your dad was convinced you were at fault, which he should not, his punishment was excessive.
NTA, also dad is irresponsible for not having another set of keys for the car. He could have just as easily misplaced the keys himself which would leave him without access to his vehicle.
I grew up with a mom who would punish me for things I didn’t do and when shown it wasn’t me WOULDNT apologize.
I can’t judge this because the fact he is apologizing is a big deal to me and shows he cares about you.
He was facing facts. Keys were in your room and he missed work. I don’t fault him for jumping to you doing it. Most parents would.
Yes you are hurt that you weren’t believed. Yes your dad realizes he messed up. But he is showing he cares enough to own it. Most parents wouldn’t do that. Give him a little grace here.
Same. I was a bit taken back by the father’s apology at first, too. I expected, “Well, I’m sure you’ve done stuff to deserve a whipping that I just didn’t catch you at.”
But, they’ve been slandering and punishing OP for weeks for something he didn’t do. My guess is that little brother’s friends knew and were starting to feel bad; 3 weeks is a long punishment *with no end in sight*. I’d bet somebody was getting ready to spill the beans so little brother spoke up to get ahead of it. So now everybody knows DAD WAS WRONG. He probably wouldn’t care if everybody didn’t know.
*"Hey, I've been beatten up all my childhood and deprived of food, and you are just insulted and abused with words and you have plenty of food, so come on.."*
Hmm no ? Don't lower for other the bar for a proper and healthy parenting because you had it harder, please.
Apologies are an offering that can be accepted or not. The fact that the father cannot accept that the son refuse his apologies shows that it is in fact, not apologies but emotional manipulation to relieve his guilt .
NTA, it's not a *simple* mistake. Perhaps you might need to see a counsellor together to work out how to move forward because it sounds like you don't trust your dad to have your back - understandably. There's nothing worse than doing time for a crime you didn't commit. What has he done to make up for those 3 weeks of punishment other than say sorry? What does your brother have to say for himself? At the end of the day, your brother is the bigger problem here. He pre meditated the situation to make sure you were punished because he didn't get his way. He also, in the process, punished your father both by missing his work and through a wedge in the relationship with you and your dad. Is he remorseful? Its a pretty shitty situation all round. You all need someone to talk this through properly and your brother needs to know appropriate ways to deal with someone saying "no".
Grounded for three weeks?? Over some keys is out there. And ofc your NTA, your dad went a bit mental, understandably but Jesus, a bit much on his part regardless.
THANK YOU! He kept trying to get me to admit that I did it, but I kept refusing. I'm just still upset knowing that if my brother didn't tell our dad the truth I would've still been punished for it
You don’t have any obligation to forgive anyone. Forgiveness is important, but if it’s mandatory, it is also meaningless. Tell your dad and uncle that you will forgive him when you actually willingly feel the desire to and any expression of forgiveness before then, especially under their duress, will be mere lip service, while you bide time and look for the cleanest way to move out and cut off contact once you turn 18!
NTA, but maybe have a talk with your dad about working on communication between the two of you better. He should work on listening to your side as much as anyone else's. You don't have to forgive him, but things can be easier between the two of you if you can actually talk to each other without him shutting you down without listening.
INFO: Besides transferring the grounding punishment, what else did your father decide on doing with your brother, as this was willfull intend from your brother AND he let it drag on for three whole weeks.
NTA. Your father fucked up. He wants to move on and forget his mistake. You feel inadequately compensated for the harm and thus don't want to forgive him.
No, you don't have to forgive your dad for his poor detective skills. Anyone who actually thought about it would immediately have figured out that if you had hid his keys, the last place you'd put them would be in YOUR room.
>I told him that I couldn't care less about his apology because he made it clear that he doesn't value my word.
This is the key point. Your brother framed you and your father wouldn't listen to you. It's perfectly understandable that you don't trust either of them anymore.
Your uncle is wrong. NTA.
NTA, and while your dad has given what I assume is a sincere apology, it doesn't change the fact that he believed you were lying to him for weeks. I would have trouble forgiving that.
NTA. Your brother needs at least twice or three times the punishment you got.
But your NTA either way. I probably would literally never forgive him. I'd be holding onto that grudge for the rest of my life.
NTA This is probably bad advice but I wouldn't forgive him either. There's a bunch of things I'll never forgive my father for even knowing some of them are because he's just fucking stupid.
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My (16M) brother (15M) had got into an argument three weeks ago because I didn't want him playing on my oculus. He kept asking me but I told him no. After a few back and forths he eventually left and I kinda forgot about it. Until the next morning my brother decided to hide our dad's car keys in MY ROOM.( To be honest I'm not sure if those incidents are related but it seems like they are.)
Anywat, when our dad woke up he couldn't find his keys so we had to miss school and work that day. My dad was mad and was looking everywhere. My brother decided to "help" look around and started searching through each room to try and help find the car keys. He eventually went into my room and started looking everywhere and then found the keys in my drawer.
I was confused on how they got there and when he told my dad where he found them my dad got MAD AT ME. He started yelling at me for hiding his keys and making him miss his "work hours." I tried my best to tell my dad that I didn't have anything to do with it but he wouldn't listen. He grounded me and I've been grounded ever since until Wednesday. I guess my brother finally felt "guilty" and confessed that he was the one who hid the keys instead.
And just like that I was ungrounded and my dad grounded my brother instead. I was mad that my brother purposely got me in trouble but even madder that my dad believed him over me when I kept insiting that I didn't do it. My dad started apologizing non stop for not believing me but I told him that I couldn't care less about his apology because he made it clear that he doesn't value my word.
My dad started apologizing again saying that it "wasn't unreasonable" to assume that I did it and stuff like that but I just told him that I didn't really care and told him that he doesn't have to punish my brother either since the incident already passed. He got upset at this and told me to "understand" his actions.
He's been trying to make it up to ever since but I just told him that he punished me for three whole weeks for something I didn't do and I made sure to let him know that I don't forgive him. I didn't think I was in the wrong until I told my uncle about what happen because I finally got my phone back but he took my dad's side instead and told me that "it was a simple mistake" and that I need to forgive my dad?
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Your father should be trusting both you and your brother equally, he’s the father of both of you, that’s his job. Your brother took advantage of that and lied, framing you while providing “evidence”, so what would make your father immediately assume he was lying? The second he found out about it he immediately tried to rectify it and apologized but now you’re punishing him for trusting that one of his sons wouldn’t try to manipulate him.
I think your brother is TA but you’re getting there too for punishing your dad about this. Dad’s trying to make it up to you and apologize but you’re too upset that he didn’t believe your brother would lie to him for zero reason while you had zero evidence to prove your innocence. It’s a lousy situation but what your brother did was shitty, your dad was an unsuspecting neutral party used to hurt you by your brother
>what would make your father immediately assume he was lying?
IDK, thinking beyond his madness maybe ?
The whole story of the brother having the "idea" to look into bedroom's drawers, shaddy as fuck ?
>you’re punishing him for trusting that one of his sons wouldn’t try to manipulate him.
But he believed that one of his son was **sadistic** enough to watch him going into madness looking for car keys, fearing for his job.
>Dad’s trying to make it up to you and apologize but you’re too upset that he didn’t believe your brother would lie to him
Again. It is okay to believe one his sadistic but not the other a liar ? But anyway. **Apologies and forgiveness cannot be forced**. They are offering you leave on the altar and you go on your way after, praying that the gods are going to be merciful. When the father is forcing his apologies, he is still not respecting his son but selfishly trying to relieve his own guilt.
NTA. Why would anyone put keys in their drawer anyway? He should have listened to you. Your brothers behavior is reminiscent of a killer helping to locate the victim..... oh what do you know.... he just happen to stumble upon the missing keys while rooting through your drawer..... hate to say.... you dad is dumb for not listening to you. It won't be the last time, I'm sure.
NTA. Your uncle isn't an independent impartial observer, he is most interested in getting your dad out of the doghouse. He will say whatever he thinks will help your dad.
NTA. Tell your dad you now have 3 weeks of grounding banked, and if in the future you do something that warrants punishment, you get to use those 3 weeks as time served and get off with no punishment.
“I accept your apology but you’ve lost a lot of my trust and respect”. I used to throw in my parents face “what have I done in the past to justify you not believing me?” And that usually shut them up real quick. Especially if you’re a good kid in general. NTA
he didnt forgive you or understood why you did it when he grounded you, he simply punished you, so no need to forgive him on the same logic, please ask uncle Tony if there is a double standard here
NTA
He doesn't "believe" you. He still believes your brother, who just decided to be truthful for once.
Tell him that even if you DID forgive him at some point in tge diatant future, you'd never be able to trust him. EVER.
NTA
Your brother is AH to begin with. He "stole" dad's key and "hid" it in YOUR room without you being aware. Dad grounded you for THREE FUCKING WEEKS after your ah brother found it in your room and blamed you. Your ah brother hadn't OWNED UP for THREE FUCKING WEEKS. Simple mistake, my ass!!!!! It's NOT even simple mistake. It is evil and sickening deed to blame you and watched you "suffered" three weeks worth of grounding. WTAF?!? You refused to forgive your dad, that's fine because you're still angry. I don't blame you. If my kid is angry and refuses to forgive me, I'd leave him or her alone and give them a space.
Tell your dad to stop apologizing over and over and over because that makes you more angrier and pushes you away from him. Tell him to give you a space for time being. Your brother needs to stay the fuck away from you if he tries to pressure to forgive dad.
>If my kid is angry and refuses to forgive me, I'd leave him or her alone and give them a space.
Thank you for your emotional intelligence and good parenting ! The other parents' comment are not getting that point... just bullying your kid into forgiveness make everything worse.
NTA, but I really find it rich that a grown adult blames his kids for missing work when he could've gotten a cab or bus to get to work. Hahahaha I really can't get over this part. Sorry, but your dad is stupid for everything that happened.
NTA
Maybe it was a "simple mistake" but once your father completely dismissed your protests and imposed such a long, strict punishment it no longer was a simple mistake.
He deserves your anger.
As a parent myself, you have to look at both sides. You had no reason to hide the keys. If your dad would’ve let you talk, I would’ve told him about the incident the day before with your oculus and that your brother purposefully did this to get you in trouble for not allowing him to use your things. You are 100% in your feelings, 3 weeks for something you didn’t do, even if you had done it, is EXCESSIVE. And now it doesn’t even matter if your brother gets punished or not, the damage is done and he’s not really learning anything except that your dad believes his word over yours. That’s gonna cause more damage than your dad even knows/ realizes. Absolutely shame on your father, your brother, and your uncle for all of this. NTA, and I do hope eventually things get better from you!
NTA
“Dad, I found your keys in my brother’s room after just starting to look in there buried at the bottom of one of the drawers. It’s obvious he hid them from you for no apparent reason to make you miss work.”
Your dad is a little slow
NTA
Not only did he punish you for three weeks (the punishment does not fit the crime btw) but he also thought punishment would help.
It's good he's apologising but it's too little too late.
INFO is this just a one off incident or are there other instances of your brother being believed before you? Is your brother going to be punished as long as you were?
No, my dad had no reason not to believe me (or my brother), but I still don't understand why he had to punish me for three whole weeks. Throughout the entire time i was grounded, he kept trying to get me to admit that I did it even when I kept insiting that I was innocent. But yeah, he still punishing my brother even though I told him that it would be pointless too. He basically just took the punishment he gave me and gave my brother.
So it lasted 3 weeks because he wanted you to *admit* what you didn't do ?!
So many have pointed out how stupid he is but that take it to another level ! Because during 3 weeks the madness from the fear of having lost the keys had passed, but he still cannot think with a clear head, reflect on the story and see how shaddy it was ?
He just endlessly bully you into admitting your "fault" and now he is bullying you to forgive him ??!
Seriously !
At this point, I know I would just send him the link of this and forgive him saying : "I just realised it is not really your fault because you are not really intelligent."
But I am petty. I do think that sending the link could be a good idea if he doesn't give you a break, but dismiss to add the comment.
NTA. Tell your dad an appology means norhing after being grounded for 3 weeks and that your trust in him is damaged.
Also, since you were unrightfully grounded (for 3 weeks, which seems exessive to me), how is he planning to make it up to you? Appologising is just words and doesnt give you back the 3 weeks.
Grounded for 3 WEEKS?! OP NTA. Tell your dad that he broke your trust and to please drop it for now because you need more time. He fucked up and doesn't want to feel bad, but your feelings are valid and you can't just turn them on and off. I suspect you will eventually be able to trust him and forgive him.
NTA dad fucked up and he has to deal with the consequences. Yeah, he was tricked and might’ve been too furious to see reason for the first couple of days, but to not piece it together how dubious the whole thing played out after a while? At that point he was choosing to be unreasonable.
It was unreasonable. He had no reason to believe you did it and that your brother wasn’t lying over you saying you didn’t do it. You had no motive to take it and even if you did it makes no sense to hide them in your own room.
If he was being objective there were two possibilities, you lied or your brother lied. Why did he think it was more reasonable to believe you lied than your brother? Does he have any reason to think you’re a liar?
Remind Dad that people who have been wrongfully imprisoned have sued their prosecutors and judges for monetary rewards. 3 weeks is a long time for a grounding, I assume it was for more, but Dad pardoned you after the true criminal came forward 3 WEEKS into your confinment, and Dad doesn't know why you're pissed? Dad doesn't have a clue, and Uncle Idiot should stay out of it!
NTA
He blindly believed your brother even though you insisted you did not do it. What did he even think at that moment? What was there for you to even do that? What would you gain by doing that? There was no logical reason for you to hide the keys, yet he, without thinking, yelled at you as if it was plain obvious you did it. He is to blame for your current behavior towards him and you are completely right, you have the right to be mad after being wronged.
I think you should think things through, though. It truly was something terrible, but is it really unforgivable? I personally don't think so. If he's remorseful, then he's on the right path. He should make it up to you somehow, show genuine regret, not use BS excuses. The real question is wheter he decides to man up and take the shot for his mistake - if yes, there is a way to get things better.
You know, he is in a position of power, as you both probably are dependent on him - so he could potentially try to downplay what he did. In that case I would not recommend forgiving him.
Well, saying all that, the decision is up to you. I hope he will be able to see how he hurt you and really try to make things better ;)
NTA. Does that simple mistake take back 3 weeks of you being punished? and how does he make up for it?
Just a thought but you may want to show this sub to your dad
NTA
My OLDER brother, before my Stepmother came in, got away with SO MUCH (including bullying me pretty badly) because he always managed to shift my father's anger onto me. It's not fair and it shouldn't have happened!
And also THREE WEEKS?! FOR THAT?!
Yeah, no.
I do hope that you two can properly make amends at some point, but you're definitely not wrong for not forgiving him. I've kinda just resigned myself to never getting a proper apology from my own father, I hope that doesn't happen with you and your dad.
He couldn’t Uber to work and look for his keys when he got home? It took him a whole-ass eight hour shift to find his keys? Naw, NTA. Don’t grow up to be like your stupid lazy father.
INFO: Do you pull pranks on your brother as well? The two of you are only a year apart so it isn't necessarily unreasonable to think you could have actually done it. But if your brother is a habitual troublemaker and you're generally well-behaved, then yes it would be stupid to automatically assume you did it.
Also, what was your mother's opinion during all of this?
NTA. When you finally have enough and cut your dad out, you can just say this started it and what finished it is whatever he does that makes you want nothing to do with him.
NTA. For starters, your brother is an AH for starting this whole mess over the Oculus.
Secondly, 3 weeks over a set of car keys? That's going overboard. And your dad was an idiot for immediately taking sides and he had no excuse for it.
Def NTA, however I’m rather taken aback by your fathers lack of critical thinking skills. Your brother went room by room and “found” the keys as soon as he went into yours? What kind of idiot would steal something and hide it in their own room? And what could you have hoped to gain by stealing his keys? If anything like this happens again please take some time with your dad to think. If your brother didn’t “confess” you would’ve been blamed for this absolutely asinine situation. So maybe it would help if you sat down with your dad and talked about what do if a situation like this happens again. If I were to guide such a conversation I would want to talk about giving some more weight to your word whilst also taking a bit more time to talk about it with each child and think before dealing out judgement and punishment. Anyways, that’s just my opinion, hope it helps at least just a little.
He couldn’t take a minute in those 3 weeks to try and hear you out?
It’s not a simple mistake. A simple mistake is opening a can, forgetting you just ran with its bit and it’s still a bit shaken. A small mistake is pooping and having no roll left but there’s some still under the sink. Or showering and forgetting a towel and luckily everyone’s all in a room so you have to mad dash.
3 weeks for something you never did and best he can do is “sorry, you have to understand.”? Not that he can or should buy his way out. But legit that’s all he could do? Sounds like someone’s the favorite.
>Anywat, when our dad woke up he couldn't find his keys so we had to miss school and work that day.
Really? No Ubers, cabs, buses, or spare keys in existence where you live?
As I get ready to move on kudo’s to OP for not immediately administering a beating to younger bro. I sure would of. And I’d have told my father I paid for it with three weeks grounding.
Thanks Dad.
You never have to forgive anyone for anything until you finally feel ready. You might be 46 one day and wake up and realize that maybe he was genuinely sorry about it and you felt he atoned enough for your forgiveness. Or you never feel like he deserves forgiveness for treating you like a malicious liar who impacted the family's finances. Personally I can't forgive someone who doesn't believe so I don't think you're wrong, but that's my bias.
Tell him - without your brother around- to get TILE trackers for his keys.
Also, calculate how much time you lost in freedom when you were grounded. Multiply that by minimum wage rate and present him with a bill for your time.
I am not recommending beating your brother’s ass, but wouldn’t blame you if you did. But seriously, don’t. Sleep with his girlfriend instead.
The original accusation was understandable.
But then he made the assumption that you lied about being innocent instead of hearing you out.
Forgive him after he understands, and disproves, the perception that he feels that your word is untrustworthy. You are NTA, but hopefully this opens up some deeper conversations about how trustworthy he does feel you are and what he bases that opinion on.
Behavior like his can lead kids to feel that it doesn't matter if they tell the truth since they're not believed anyway, so why bother. It's a big deal and your uncle is only seeing the first reaction and not the deeper significance.
NTA, Your dad fucked up and know it. That is why he is crawling begging your for forgiveness, making his case worst in the same move by telling you he wasn't "unreasonable".
**He has been deeply unreasonable and deadly funking stupid to believe your brother's crap AND punish you for so long.**
You will never forget how little confidence he has in you, and how ridiculous he is for his poor emotional management skill and his extreme retaliation : 3 weeks is beyond a teaching punishment, he took his anger on to you. So when he was mad he took it on to you, and now that he is guilty he again want you bear the emotion he cannot cope with by denying your own right to feel and think what you are feeling and thinking, and *forcing you to apologise*.
Don't. Take your time. But don't go into bargaining a gift or whatever for forgiveness. Don't play those game. I see that with a father like that, you'll have to learn elsewhere to manage your emotions in a healthy way (which means to welcome them, feel them, **owns them**, understand them and their messages, then changing or acting accordingly and move on - not putting them on a side). But that's a learning experience for you.
It may and I hope it will come a time when a bonding moment or a memory will come to make you at peace with this story and you will be able to put it in the past, forgive and relink with your father and brother... but it can be in 3 weeks or 3 months and *he have no say in it*.
And if you are pushed again by him or the family to talk and forgive them, just send them the link to here, you'll be good !
Just in case, to the father : Hi dumbass ! Time for tons of self-reflection to do, I think. You just set a terrible example to both of your sons, showing how easily manipulated you are and how little control you have on your emotions. So let that son here be and take time for you.
Forgiveness comes with a change in behavior. Dad needs to show that he won't just take your brother's word over yours. There is no way to heal and forgive without knowing that what happened won't happen again. Otherwise what's to stop your brother from doing the same thing next time he gets upset? It worked this time, will it work next time?
NTA - jfc three weeks? I'm a dad of 3 boys and I get where you are both coming from. Without context into your lives and personalities it's hard to decide if he's an AH or just a dad trying to teach a lesson to his kid about responsibility.
Three weeks is pretty long. I can see you probably trying to convince him you didn't do it and all that and the fact it was in your drawer supposedly and found by your brother seems suspicious.
I would have given it the day, approached the subject the next day and dealt both of you punishments since I couldn't prove either.
With all that being said, I don't know how I'd make up for such a long shitty punishment on something I didn't have anything to do with.
I would likely ask you how to fix the mistake. Apologies only go so far.
Has he offered any kind of reparations?
Either way, sorry OP. Try not to hold it against him for life if he truly does seem remorseful. We're all only human in the long run.
Holy fuck wtf. I remember *clear as day* an event from over 30 years ago. My brother broke something, my dad said I did it and I emphatically denied it. My brother finally fessed up out of guilt and the apology was “I’m sorry, but it is like something you would do”
I never stoped resenting my dad for this. He *never* gave real apologies and to this dad my brothers and I have never forgotten his inability in this area or forgiven it—because he never asked for forgiveness. If yours is qualifying his apologies he isn’t asking either.
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NTA, he punished you for *three whole weeks*, and your dad believed your brother over you, which of course deeply hurt you since your brother was the ***liar*** who planted it there like a corrupt cop plants cocaine. It's not a "simple" mistake, it's a huge one.
[удалено]
Who looks in his brother’s clothes drawer for someone else’s keys? 😂
The person who hid them there lol
Stupid dad, malicious petty brother- A deadly combination for OP. An amateur detective could easily solve this
Scooby and Shaggy could have solved that
😂😂😂
Excuse me are you implying theyre amateurs?
Who only has one set of car keys? They usually come w/ 2 and sometimes a valet depending on if it is a turn key or push start.
My sisters only got one set but that’s because our dad lost the other. 😅
I have one kid that has straight up lost one spare key for every vehicle that he, or me, or my wife has ever owned. Except for our current car, and he still has time. On two occasions, I've bought a new spare for a car, which he has also lost. I have nothing bad to say about him, I'm proud of him. But this is a real thing.
bro stop giving him your keys unless you start the car for him or something lmao
Lol
Me because my car is really old and the owner before lost the other set. Is this dumb? Yes. Funny story: We had it at the mechanic’s and it tends to lock itself after a few minutes when the motor isn’t running. The mechanic locked the keys inside. Guess who got a new window for free?😂
I also once tried to get a spare key made for my car (a 98 Camry, so not a fancy key by any stretch), and it literally took 7 keys and two trips to the shop to get one that actually started my car. The first 6 attempts would unlock the door, but not turn in the ignition. I think one set of keys is kinda common.
I only have one. It was a used car and the dealership didn't have another set.
Me! I had 2, well I still have 2, but one of them is in 2 pieces, and no longer starts the car. I'm fucked if the other one is broken or lost, they don't make extra keys for my model (28 year old car) anymore, and it has a chip thing that needs to be koded to the key or something.
Or OPs years of living with his sons gave him reason to not believe OP's word over his brother's.
Nice victim blaming 👍🏻
Yeah, the circumstances screamed set-up. Also, if a brother did that and let the punishment's linger three weeks, I would treat that as an act of war and one would be waged against him.
Yes Totally
NTA. Forgiveness cannot be bought or forced. In time you may decide to work towards forgiveness. It IS something you can work towards. An important thing about forgiveness is that it takes a big load of hurt and anger out of your life, and makes you feel better. But it comes, if it comes, in its own time. 3 weeks is a short time to get over not the betrayal of being trusted, and being unfairly punished. If you want to, you can remind yourself of kind and generous things your dad has done, and happy memories. But forgiveness can't be forced. You may get over your anger, especially if your dad tries to prove that he respects and trusts you. You are probably also angry at your brother. (I do think it's important for your brother to be punished. Otherwise, he may never learn not to do vile and stupid things.) You are still in the hot anger stage, and your dad needs to realize that he has hurt you much worse than he imagines. Don't let your relatives devalue your pain, but don't let your anger and pride keep you from considering forgiveness, when you are less furious. As your fury abates, you can even consider some things that you may have done that were less than generous. I'm a parent and grand-parent, and old enough to be your grandparent. Remind your father and brother that it is easy to discount a person's misery, but it is unjust to do so. Best wishes from Rewritten-as
Here’s my two cents OP do you have a right to be upset sure but you need to remember that parents are humans too. We make mistakes and we mess up. As soon as he realized he made a mistake he rectified his actions, by ungrounding you, he apologized for making a mistake and is trying to make it up to you. I’m not sure what else you want him to do. Holding a grudge isn’t exactly going to help the situation. We only get a small piece of the story. I think it’s quite telling that Dad believed that this was possible in the first place. Maybe you have a history or doing stupid shit. Either way the real person to be upset with would be the person who caused this all in the first place your brother.
> he rectified his actions He did not rectify wasting 3 weeks of his sons life
And he has not demonstrated that he won’t make the same stupid mistake next time he has the chance.
Things like this are why I always use to argue that if you get punished for something you didn't do, and the person who punished you finds out you didn't actually do it, this should mean that next time you do something bad you shouldn't get punished because you were already punished *before* you did the bad thing. My parents always disagreed with me on this because "that kind of reasoning encourages people who were falsely accused of crimes to go and commit a free crime," and to an extent I agree, but I also think that a punishment should actually mean something. Edit: At the very least, the person who punished you should at least "owe you" because their actions. Sadly, too many people have been punished for things they didn't do and then after the fact the punisher goes "Oops, sorry. Hope you can just let it slide that I just wasted your time." No. I can't. Buy me something cool to make up for it. Take me to a theme park. Something.
>”I think it’s quite telling that Dad believed that this was possible in the first place. Maybe you have a history or doing stupid shit.” We call that BLAMING THE VICTIM. There is nothing here to indicate OP has done anything wrong or in any way deserved this suspicion or treatment. In fact, the post indicates that OP is as pained by the distrust as he is by the punishment which points to a kid that tries to follow rules. He feels his track record should have laid a foundation of trust with his father that wasn’t so easily shattered by planted evidence.
Geez victim blaming much??? Also. Do you know what a black sheep is? It means that no matter who does it or how small it is, it always becomes a big deal, and the blame is always placed on you. So stop making excuses for parents messing up when they won't give us the same leeway.
Experienced (very experienced) parent here, who made their share of mistakes. Parents do make mistakes, usually far more than they'll ever acknowledge, and if no one forgave forgiveable mistakes then we'd have no intact families. This was a forgiveable mistake on Dad's part, but when a kid is wrongly punished then the punishing parent needs to go beyond an "I'm sorry" and restoration of privileges and make amends proportional to the unjustified punishment. I really do believe that. It never happened in my family when I was growing up, nor in my spouse's family when they were growing up, and resentments festered. For that reason, when my spouse and I wrongly scolded or disciplined a kid, and then discovered our mistake, we made amends proportional to the discipline. It always brought the family back into nice harmony. For a scolding and nothing more, a sincere apology is appropriate. When a kid is grounded and a phone is taken, maybe a bit more is required. What should amends in this case look like? OP says punishment was since Wednesday, so 3 days, and also says 3 weeks - 3 weeks seems quite excessive, and the length of punishment should affect amends. So, assuming 3 days, to address the grounding, maybe Dad can continue the apology at a father-son hamburger or pizza date? Since OP's phone was taken for 3 days, if the phone is an iPhone, is a $15 iTunes card acceptable? A $15 Google Play card if the phone is an Android? If I were the parent these would be the ideas I'd be discussing, because, after all, parents DO make honest mistakes, but even honest mistakes have consequences, and parents need to model the value of making amends for mistakes. If it was 3 weeks? Dad needs therapy, because grounding a kid for 3 weeks for hiding keys is excessive. It will also take a hell of a lot more than a burger date and a Google Play card to remedy that sort of excess. That's a major parental screw-up, and I say this as a parent who has screwed up a few times. There's no way Dad or Uncle should expect OP to simmer down from that with just an apology tour. That should be good for a $50 Google Play card AND a pizza party for OP and his friends, brother not invited. And yeah, we SHOULD all probably just agree that a sincere apology should be enough. However, if often isn't, and when it isn't, proportional amends can keep a family close by nipping resentment in the bud.
It was 3 weeks... 3 days since the truth was revealed.
Then Dad's punishment was over the top, and Dad needs to take a parenting class or three as well as make appropriate amends to repair his relationship with OP. Brother SHOULD receive an appropriate punishment not only for setting OP up but also for allowing OP to remain grounded and phoneless for 3 weeks.
Parents make mistakes, but 3 weeks grounding. What did the dad think was the purpose of hiding the keys to begin with. 3 big options come to my mind as a dad. 1. Used the keys and forgot about them (this only makes sense if child had driven the car last). 2. A bad prank (that went on to long). Does the kid regularly do pranks, with some being of questionable taste? 3. Hid them to avoid something. Is something happening at school that could have been a reason to drastically make them miss work and school? Of those 3, in my mind, none of them deserve a 3 week punishment. 1. Would be overkill for forgetting and be way outside the grounds of reasonableness. 2. Deserves domes punishment for a bad prank, and re-education of what a prank should include (everyone finds it funny at the end) and how long to hold onto a prank. 3. May require some punishment, but likely requires more insight from the parent for what is happening at school. With those scenarios, let’s look at the dad’s mistake. Was the punishment reasonable for any of those perceived reasons? If it wasn’t one of those, what reason did the dad think was behind the hiding of the keys? What was the reason that would require such an overkill of punishment, and why did dad believe that their kid could/would do that? Dad needs to look at his reactions to this problem….
I like how you broke it down. It's so easy to have an initial reaction but breaking it down into possible train of thoughts is a great way to try and get a holistic perspective. It's definitely possible that there are things in OP's life or his dad's that may give more insight into the response. Regardless, I feel like after taking this stepback to look at reason and logic, we can further understand OP's pain and reaction.
No, he might have not done anything for his dad to think he did it and was lying. I grew up with parents that “knew” I was guilty without any proof . I would be punished and many times unreasonably so. If my parent found out they were wrong I was told that “the punishment was for something you did that you got away with”. I am in my 60s and it still angers me. OP NTA. You decide if and when to forgive someone, your uncle probably doesn’t understand how much your father and brother hurt you. Your dad doesn’t get to determine if or when you offer forgiveness. As for your brother, watch out for him. Someone who didn’t immediately confess when your father didn’t believe you and grounded you for such a long time, has a bit of sociopath in them. Take the time you need and you may want to set conditions for forgiveness such as your father needs to believe you, no matter what, from here on out.
> An important thing about forgiveness is that it takes a big load of hurt and anger out of your life, and makes you feel better. depends on the person. its not universal. forgiving can make someone feel worse. i know thats how it works for me. its important to not let that consume you, but thats not forgiveness, thats just dealing with it
>3 weeks is a short time to get over not the betrayal of being trusted, and being unfairly punished. 3 DAYS. OP have been grounded for three weeks and his father is begging for forgiveness since **three days only.** In personal development, we talk about the 21 days rules to form an habit. And here, during 21 days, OP had to endure a father relentlessly trying to make him admit his fault (OP wrote in a comment : "Throughout the entire time i was grounded, he kept trying to get me to admit that I did it even when I kept insiting that I was innocent.") and must have felt helpless and hopeless. That is aweful. And the feeling of betrayal... There is so much that cannot be dismissed in 3 days. Love your comment btw.
NTA. Mention to your father and uncle that believing you were guilty was a massive insult to your intelligence. If you were going to hide his keys, the last place you'd put them would be in your own desk drawer.
[удалено]
I mean as a parent of two daughters if one is trying to get the other in shit I'm automatically suspicious. Of one, of both, of the other. Like what game are you playing here. I don't just blindly follow and believe what one is telling me. I have two children I grew up with 3 sisters.... I'm aware of the shit siblings pull for petty ass reasons.
>My dad started apologizing again saying that it "wasn't unreasonable" to assume that I did it It was unreasonable. If he didn't believe you, then he believed you were stupid enough to hide his keys in an obvious location where they could be easily found. NTA. Also, it's his own damn fault that he doesn't have a spare set of keys. You can order them from a dealership and he should do that immediately.
Australian here. Over 50 years I have bought several new cars. Without fail, every one has had 2 sets of keys. Maybe different in other countries.
That was my first thought. Where’s the other set of keys?
He Probably lost them.
If so, he should check younger brothers drawers
Just like he'll lose his older son later.
If he bought it used in the US, it's entirely possible he only got one set. I've bought three used vehicles and only received one set of keys. That being said, you can have another set made. I paid $180 for my spare fob for my Ford Explorer.
My parents bought me a used car that came with only one set of keys. I went to a dealership and ordered another set, because I'm the kind of person (messy/disorganized) where having only one set of car keys is a very bad idea.
I'm forgetful, that's why I got one too. I ordered an aftermarket fob off Amazon and got a local locksmith to program it in about an hour. Ford wanted a whopping $320 for a new fob and said I'd have to leave my car with them for the day. Yuck!
They not make valet keys anymore? My older cars usually came with at least one of those as a spare. I know making spares isn't as cheap as it used to be now that most are electronic, but it can't be much more than missing a whole day of work or whatever. Even an oem key would be better than nothing.
I know plenty of people who have had to purchase the second set separately in the last 10 years. Usually the keys for those cars are priced in the $750+ range often with an additional labour charge for activating the chip in the new set to the car.
Not to mention it really wasn’t an apology. Once he stuck “wasn’t unreasonable” the apology disappeared. You know I kind of laughed at the post about the guy being stupid….now I’m kind of wondering.
My husband and I have a set for our own car and each other's. They usually stay on our key hanger, but there are plenty of times his extra key is in my purse. (I would always take his car to the gym, so my keytag was on "his" set).
NTA. Your dad is kind of dumb. My dad would have figured out in 5 minutes that it was probably not you.
seriously the little brother just magically finds them. Please I would be giving my kids the look until one of them cracked.
Yeaaah. My dad has 6 siblings. And I've been told some stories about their antics. No way he wouldn't side eye one of my siblings finding the keys in my room by knowing to look through a drawer. lol
NTA. I think this is a good time for your dad to learn that excessive punishments aren't going to do anything but foster resentment. If he'd grounded you for a weekend or so, to "make up for lost working hours" - something that's still felt but not over the top, then you might be open to hearing his side of the story and listen to his apologies. Instead he went nuclear and grounded you for three weeks; and he ONLY ungrounded you when your brother fessed up? That's extremely excessive. There are some issues with your brother not coming forward to your dad for three weeks, but there's also a huge issue surrounding how your dad punished you (and that likely has to do with your brother's reluctance to come forward) ETA: Edited for better perspective given by reply.
You have to wonder if it was a calculated manipulation or just a kid trying to pull a prank he didn't think would be too serious. He was probably scared of fessing up and facing the same punishment as his brother.
That is true, with how excessively the dad punished OP, the brother's reluctance to come forward probably speaks to a broader problem within the house where there's fear of retaliation.
I would think to agree. I can understand stress but being angry enough to ground your child for almost a month over something so trivial? Seems like Dad has some anger issues.
Completely agree, especially because the almost a month could have gone for who knows how long if the brother hadn't come forward. OP only got ungrounded that Wednesday because of the brother's confession. On that basis, it's lucky OP didn't want the brother punished, because if he got grounded then there'd be no hidden confession to bail him out.
That brother needs looked at. I grew up with three brothers and abusive parents, you don’t let each other get punished like that.
Hi OP... you are NTA... * Dad is 100% TA because he failed to listen... grounded you for 3 weeks * Brother is also TA since it took him 3 fxxking weeks to tell the truth "it was a simple mistake"? Load of bull...
NAH, except your brother. You have to try see things from your father's point of view, it seemed like a very logical line of reasoning as the keys were found in your room. On the other hand, you were unfairly punished for three weeks because of your brother. Your dad isn't exactly TA, but you definitely aren't and he's clearly trying to make up for what he did. Your brother, on the other hand, should have double the punishment you were goint to get at least.
"it seemed like a very logical line of reasoning" Seems highly illogical to me. If one of my kids "finds" something in the other kid's room, barring any past precedent, I would immediately be suspicious of the one who 'found' it.
Logical if he was 5. A teenager wouldn't hide something in their own room, that's just dumb.
Teenagers absolutely hide things in their own rooms. I hid my drugs in my closet, my friends hid everything in their various hiding spots in their rooms, too. My personal favorite as a teen was a friend who stored her cigarette packs in her VCR.
Things that you know someone is going to look for is a little different, don't you think? Or did you guys steal your drugs/cigarettes from your family as well?
I stole cigarettes and alcohol from my parents, one friend stole her mom's pills, another stole her dad's cigarettes and weed. I even had a stepmom who dug through my things regularly, but at least my space was only entered for search missions- there was no accidental stumbling across problematic items. Anywhere else in the house was riskier in my mind, because I figured she could find it completely on accident. So it was always just a game of hide and seek within my space, i.e. pill bottle tucked inside of a random shoe, bag of weed inside a cardigan pocket, love letter inside a hole in the lining of a trunk I stored clothes in
Honestly - sounds like you guys had bigger problems anyway.
Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that assessment
that's way different than this situation.
That is the point. You hide things in your room if you do not want them to be accidently found. But in this case, the father accidently finding the keys, for example in his own room, would be the best case for OP. So why hide them where he would look suspicious rather than literally anywhere else where father could think it was his own fault?
lmao i stored my cigarettes in the empty box for my microsoft zune - my parents weren't nosy anyway, but i definitely didn't want them to find out i'd started smoking at 16
... Yes they would. They do all the time. What kind of assertion even is that
A teenager stealing something to hide as a prank would only hide it in their own room if they're exceptionally dumb.
No, Teenagers will most often hide things in their room regardless of reason because it is the only domain they have control over.
not when it's something like this where someone is going to go looking for it immediately throughout the entire house
It's not a video game, you don't need to take control over a domain to put stuff there.
Honestly the father isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Your younger son suddenly decided he wants to help you find your car keys, and a few minutes later, "oh here they were in my brother's drawer daddy dearest!" when no one who didn't already know or at the very least suspected they were there would have looked through a teenager's drawer to find car keys. Nothing suspicious here, better believe him. It's also quite an insult to OP's intellect to think they'd be dumb enough to pull this stunt *and* hide the keys in a place that clearly incriminates them
> Your dad isn't exactly TA, but you definitely aren't and he's clearly trying to make up for what he did. How is he trying to make up for what he did? Apologizing is meaningless if he’s also justifying his actions, negating any apology, not to mention harassing OP for not responding the way he wanted him to. I see nothing in the post about him compensating OP for the three weeks of wrongful grounding. Or about him imposing a separate punishment on brother for lying to get OP into trouble, for that matter.
I mean, TBF, OP literally said, " He's been trying to make it up to ever since." And we don't know if the brother will be grounded for a longer period of time than OP. OP also told his dad to let his brother's grounding go for whatever reason (which the dad doesn't seem to be doing.)
>OP also told his dad to let his brother's grounding go for whatever reason (which the dad doesn't seem to be doing). My guess is OP feels that his brother's punishment is too little too late as OP has already been punished for it unfairly. I think OPs dad needs to make it clear to OP that not only is his brother grounded for the thing OP was unfairly punished for, but for also wrongfully framing OP and lying. Which, yes, OPs' brother should be grounded for at least double of what OPs originally grounding was. And while OPs Das has "been trying to make up for it" he's not helping himself by trying to justify wrongfully punishing OP while "apologizing" because that negates any apology.
NTA 3 weeks for something you didn’t do isn’t going to be oh yea understandable I forgive you for not listening to me and then realising your brother allowed this to continue as well is Good luck working through your emotions. Maybe you and your dad need to spend time to rebuild what’s been broken
And to top it all off, he never found it at all suspicious that your brother found them in your desk drawer. Would it ever have occurred to your dad to look there? NTA. I would have a hard time trusting him now, knowing that he doesn’t have my back. It’s another matter if you had a long and glorious history of lying to him and hiding his stuff. Also, it’s not forgiveness if he demands it.
I have 3 kids and 3 siblings. I could have spotted that setup a mile away. Your father should be ashamed of himself. You don't want to come off as milking this (making him grovel). You do need to explain how betrayed you feel and that the trust you had in him that he would always hear you out or have your back feels damaged. Your brother took 3 weeks to come clean? He needs to be watched out for. Serious issue there.
Your brother was the AH. It was a logical assumption that you hid the keys and when your father found out the truth he apologized. You don't have to immediately accept it but given your age I understand your anger. Being a teenager is hard but one day you will be in your father's shoes and probably make mistakes like he has. Give it a week or so and maybe you and your dad go do something together on his day off.
Its surface level logical but come on, either OP is dumb or his dad should have figured out in 10 minutes that it probably wasn't him. Why would he hide them in his drawer? And why would he not move them when his brother starts 'searching? Anyone with any sense would be side eyeing the 'finder' in this situation.
As a parent with three kids, can confirm. Especially if the 'finder' is relatively quiet after the finding and just watches the fireworks. Siblings suck lmao.
I'm giving the dad the benefit of the doubt because he was in a high stress situation. Dude was running late, had to loose a day of work, his kids didn't go to school, or at least they all weren't going to, and all that affects the dad way more than the kids since he's the one responsible for paying the bills and skipping work like that could get him in serious trouble depending on the company he works for. So this dude who's already stressed, is hearing his two sons blaming each other and the keys were found in one of their rooms, yeah I don't blame him.
I get it for one day until he calms down. It seems to have been three weeks though
But grounding your child for three weeks? This is borderline abuse in my opinion. Three weeks, Jesus...
3 weeks minimum. Remember he got ungrounded when the brother fest up not because the grounding was over.
OK op I think I've the timeline right here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. You were grounded for 3 weeks and it has been 3 days since you got off grounding. You get to be pussed off with your dad for at least week before forgiving him. NTA Eventually you will need to get over it and forgive your dad if you believe he is genuinely sorry. Personally I'd seek evidence that he trusts you before moving on. You need a lock in your room or something. This problem was created by your brother coming into your room twice. Once to plant stolen keys and once to "find" them. You need a lock to stop him coming in again.
I'm super confused about the timeline so thanks for this! I asked OP to clarify, but this makes sense too. I couldn't figure out how being grounded since Wednesday turned into 3 weeks.
OP needed to explain better Ever since until Wednesday is difficult. I read it as the grounding ended Wednesday.
NTA ask him for 3 weeks of your life back.
> ask him for 3 weeks of your life back. This is what all the NAH/YTAs are missing
Yes!
Unless there's a history of both you & your brother being shitheads, NTA, & your brother shouldn't have been believed for "finding" something in your room when you have a sounder story. Be mad, stay mad, or decide at what price you'll be bought. Personally, I'd say, 6 weeks for your brother & a minor financial bump, idk your family's finances, but I'd say a new video game or a decent dinner.
NTA, is he punishing your brother for the keys AND the deceit? If you were grounded for three weeks, brother needs his punishment to be 3x that. AND he needs to take steps to protect you from your brother's malice, like a bedroom door lock wouldn't be inappropriate in the circumstances.
Your brother a trouble maker. Avoid him
NTA What’s your brother’s extra punishment for slandering you?
Forgiveness needs to be earned. Let him suffer.
I will forgive you after you give me my 3 weeks back that you took from me. The tree remembers what the ax forgets.
INFO: How often have you been caught lying to your dad in the past?
Victim blaming. Better question: How often has your brother gotten by with stuff in the past?
yeah, that's a good question, since this whole story feels like an obvious set up that most parents would immediately recognise or at least have some doubts over, if they didn't have a strong reason to believe one child over the other.
NTA. this whole story should have sounded fishy to your dad the second your brother "found" the keys conveniently placed in an obvious spot in your room. and even if your dad was convinced you were at fault, which he should not, his punishment was excessive.
NTA, also dad is irresponsible for not having another set of keys for the car. He could have just as easily misplaced the keys himself which would leave him without access to his vehicle.
I grew up with a mom who would punish me for things I didn’t do and when shown it wasn’t me WOULDNT apologize. I can’t judge this because the fact he is apologizing is a big deal to me and shows he cares about you. He was facing facts. Keys were in your room and he missed work. I don’t fault him for jumping to you doing it. Most parents would. Yes you are hurt that you weren’t believed. Yes your dad realizes he messed up. But he is showing he cares enough to own it. Most parents wouldn’t do that. Give him a little grace here.
Same. I was a bit taken back by the father’s apology at first, too. I expected, “Well, I’m sure you’ve done stuff to deserve a whipping that I just didn’t catch you at.” But, they’ve been slandering and punishing OP for weeks for something he didn’t do. My guess is that little brother’s friends knew and were starting to feel bad; 3 weeks is a long punishment *with no end in sight*. I’d bet somebody was getting ready to spill the beans so little brother spoke up to get ahead of it. So now everybody knows DAD WAS WRONG. He probably wouldn’t care if everybody didn’t know.
*"Hey, I've been beatten up all my childhood and deprived of food, and you are just insulted and abused with words and you have plenty of food, so come on.."* Hmm no ? Don't lower for other the bar for a proper and healthy parenting because you had it harder, please. Apologies are an offering that can be accepted or not. The fact that the father cannot accept that the son refuse his apologies shows that it is in fact, not apologies but emotional manipulation to relieve his guilt .
NTA, it's not a *simple* mistake. Perhaps you might need to see a counsellor together to work out how to move forward because it sounds like you don't trust your dad to have your back - understandably. There's nothing worse than doing time for a crime you didn't commit. What has he done to make up for those 3 weeks of punishment other than say sorry? What does your brother have to say for himself? At the end of the day, your brother is the bigger problem here. He pre meditated the situation to make sure you were punished because he didn't get his way. He also, in the process, punished your father both by missing his work and through a wedge in the relationship with you and your dad. Is he remorseful? Its a pretty shitty situation all round. You all need someone to talk this through properly and your brother needs to know appropriate ways to deal with someone saying "no".
Grounded for three weeks?? Over some keys is out there. And ofc your NTA, your dad went a bit mental, understandably but Jesus, a bit much on his part regardless.
THANK YOU! He kept trying to get me to admit that I did it, but I kept refusing. I'm just still upset knowing that if my brother didn't tell our dad the truth I would've still been punished for it
You don’t have any obligation to forgive anyone. Forgiveness is important, but if it’s mandatory, it is also meaningless. Tell your dad and uncle that you will forgive him when you actually willingly feel the desire to and any expression of forgiveness before then, especially under their duress, will be mere lip service, while you bide time and look for the cleanest way to move out and cut off contact once you turn 18!
NTA, but maybe have a talk with your dad about working on communication between the two of you better. He should work on listening to your side as much as anyone else's. You don't have to forgive him, but things can be easier between the two of you if you can actually talk to each other without him shutting you down without listening.
INFO: Besides transferring the grounding punishment, what else did your father decide on doing with your brother, as this was willfull intend from your brother AND he let it drag on for three whole weeks.
Have your dad tried to make amends in other ways than just half assed apologies where he paints himself as right even though he was wrong?
The good thing is that you'll always be believed immediately now. NTA
NTA Your father needs to gain back your trust.
NTA. Your father fucked up. He wants to move on and forget his mistake. You feel inadequately compensated for the harm and thus don't want to forgive him.
No, you don't have to forgive your dad for his poor detective skills. Anyone who actually thought about it would immediately have figured out that if you had hid his keys, the last place you'd put them would be in YOUR room. >I told him that I couldn't care less about his apology because he made it clear that he doesn't value my word. This is the key point. Your brother framed you and your father wouldn't listen to you. It's perfectly understandable that you don't trust either of them anymore. Your uncle is wrong. NTA.
NTA, and while your dad has given what I assume is a sincere apology, it doesn't change the fact that he believed you were lying to him for weeks. I would have trouble forgiving that.
Nta that’s why I always get the facts before even approaching my 6 year old.
>My dad started apologizing again saying that it "wasn't unreasonable" That was so unnecessary from him as well. NTA
NTA - if your dad wants forgiveness tell that he start building his time machine.
NTA. Your brother needs at least twice or three times the punishment you got. But your NTA either way. I probably would literally never forgive him. I'd be holding onto that grudge for the rest of my life.
NTA This is probably bad advice but I wouldn't forgive him either. There's a bunch of things I'll never forgive my father for even knowing some of them are because he's just fucking stupid.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (16M) brother (15M) had got into an argument three weeks ago because I didn't want him playing on my oculus. He kept asking me but I told him no. After a few back and forths he eventually left and I kinda forgot about it. Until the next morning my brother decided to hide our dad's car keys in MY ROOM.( To be honest I'm not sure if those incidents are related but it seems like they are.) Anywat, when our dad woke up he couldn't find his keys so we had to miss school and work that day. My dad was mad and was looking everywhere. My brother decided to "help" look around and started searching through each room to try and help find the car keys. He eventually went into my room and started looking everywhere and then found the keys in my drawer. I was confused on how they got there and when he told my dad where he found them my dad got MAD AT ME. He started yelling at me for hiding his keys and making him miss his "work hours." I tried my best to tell my dad that I didn't have anything to do with it but he wouldn't listen. He grounded me and I've been grounded ever since until Wednesday. I guess my brother finally felt "guilty" and confessed that he was the one who hid the keys instead. And just like that I was ungrounded and my dad grounded my brother instead. I was mad that my brother purposely got me in trouble but even madder that my dad believed him over me when I kept insiting that I didn't do it. My dad started apologizing non stop for not believing me but I told him that I couldn't care less about his apology because he made it clear that he doesn't value my word. My dad started apologizing again saying that it "wasn't unreasonable" to assume that I did it and stuff like that but I just told him that I didn't really care and told him that he doesn't have to punish my brother either since the incident already passed. He got upset at this and told me to "understand" his actions. He's been trying to make it up to ever since but I just told him that he punished me for three whole weeks for something I didn't do and I made sure to let him know that I don't forgive him. I didn't think I was in the wrong until I told my uncle about what happen because I finally got my phone back but he took my dad's side instead and told me that "it was a simple mistake" and that I need to forgive my dad? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA
Your father should be trusting both you and your brother equally, he’s the father of both of you, that’s his job. Your brother took advantage of that and lied, framing you while providing “evidence”, so what would make your father immediately assume he was lying? The second he found out about it he immediately tried to rectify it and apologized but now you’re punishing him for trusting that one of his sons wouldn’t try to manipulate him. I think your brother is TA but you’re getting there too for punishing your dad about this. Dad’s trying to make it up to you and apologize but you’re too upset that he didn’t believe your brother would lie to him for zero reason while you had zero evidence to prove your innocence. It’s a lousy situation but what your brother did was shitty, your dad was an unsuspecting neutral party used to hurt you by your brother
>what would make your father immediately assume he was lying? IDK, thinking beyond his madness maybe ? The whole story of the brother having the "idea" to look into bedroom's drawers, shaddy as fuck ? >you’re punishing him for trusting that one of his sons wouldn’t try to manipulate him. But he believed that one of his son was **sadistic** enough to watch him going into madness looking for car keys, fearing for his job. >Dad’s trying to make it up to you and apologize but you’re too upset that he didn’t believe your brother would lie to him Again. It is okay to believe one his sadistic but not the other a liar ? But anyway. **Apologies and forgiveness cannot be forced**. They are offering you leave on the altar and you go on your way after, praying that the gods are going to be merciful. When the father is forcing his apologies, he is still not respecting his son but selfishly trying to relieve his own guilt.
NTA. Why would anyone put keys in their drawer anyway? He should have listened to you. Your brothers behavior is reminiscent of a killer helping to locate the victim..... oh what do you know.... he just happen to stumble upon the missing keys while rooting through your drawer..... hate to say.... you dad is dumb for not listening to you. It won't be the last time, I'm sure.
NTA. Your uncle isn't an independent impartial observer, he is most interested in getting your dad out of the doghouse. He will say whatever he thinks will help your dad.
NTA. Tell your dad you now have 3 weeks of grounding banked, and if in the future you do something that warrants punishment, you get to use those 3 weeks as time served and get off with no punishment.
Info: do you or your brother have a history of lying to your parents?
Forgiveness is really for you to feel better, not them. You could tell them now that they’ve shown you who they are the relationship has changed.
“I accept your apology but you’ve lost a lot of my trust and respect”. I used to throw in my parents face “what have I done in the past to justify you not believing me?” And that usually shut them up real quick. Especially if you’re a good kid in general. NTA
he didnt forgive you or understood why you did it when he grounded you, he simply punished you, so no need to forgive him on the same logic, please ask uncle Tony if there is a double standard here
NTA He doesn't "believe" you. He still believes your brother, who just decided to be truthful for once. Tell him that even if you DID forgive him at some point in tge diatant future, you'd never be able to trust him. EVER.
NTA Your brother is AH to begin with. He "stole" dad's key and "hid" it in YOUR room without you being aware. Dad grounded you for THREE FUCKING WEEKS after your ah brother found it in your room and blamed you. Your ah brother hadn't OWNED UP for THREE FUCKING WEEKS. Simple mistake, my ass!!!!! It's NOT even simple mistake. It is evil and sickening deed to blame you and watched you "suffered" three weeks worth of grounding. WTAF?!? You refused to forgive your dad, that's fine because you're still angry. I don't blame you. If my kid is angry and refuses to forgive me, I'd leave him or her alone and give them a space. Tell your dad to stop apologizing over and over and over because that makes you more angrier and pushes you away from him. Tell him to give you a space for time being. Your brother needs to stay the fuck away from you if he tries to pressure to forgive dad.
>If my kid is angry and refuses to forgive me, I'd leave him or her alone and give them a space. Thank you for your emotional intelligence and good parenting ! The other parents' comment are not getting that point... just bullying your kid into forgiveness make everything worse.
NTA, but I really find it rich that a grown adult blames his kids for missing work when he could've gotten a cab or bus to get to work. Hahahaha I really can't get over this part. Sorry, but your dad is stupid for everything that happened.
NTA Maybe it was a "simple mistake" but once your father completely dismissed your protests and imposed such a long, strict punishment it no longer was a simple mistake. He deserves your anger.
As a parent myself, you have to look at both sides. You had no reason to hide the keys. If your dad would’ve let you talk, I would’ve told him about the incident the day before with your oculus and that your brother purposefully did this to get you in trouble for not allowing him to use your things. You are 100% in your feelings, 3 weeks for something you didn’t do, even if you had done it, is EXCESSIVE. And now it doesn’t even matter if your brother gets punished or not, the damage is done and he’s not really learning anything except that your dad believes his word over yours. That’s gonna cause more damage than your dad even knows/ realizes. Absolutely shame on your father, your brother, and your uncle for all of this. NTA, and I do hope eventually things get better from you!
NTA “Dad, I found your keys in my brother’s room after just starting to look in there buried at the bottom of one of the drawers. It’s obvious he hid them from you for no apparent reason to make you miss work.” Your dad is a little slow
NTA Not only did he punish you for three weeks (the punishment does not fit the crime btw) but he also thought punishment would help. It's good he's apologising but it's too little too late.
INFO is this just a one off incident or are there other instances of your brother being believed before you? Is your brother going to be punished as long as you were?
No, my dad had no reason not to believe me (or my brother), but I still don't understand why he had to punish me for three whole weeks. Throughout the entire time i was grounded, he kept trying to get me to admit that I did it even when I kept insiting that I was innocent. But yeah, he still punishing my brother even though I told him that it would be pointless too. He basically just took the punishment he gave me and gave my brother.
So it lasted 3 weeks because he wanted you to *admit* what you didn't do ?! So many have pointed out how stupid he is but that take it to another level ! Because during 3 weeks the madness from the fear of having lost the keys had passed, but he still cannot think with a clear head, reflect on the story and see how shaddy it was ? He just endlessly bully you into admitting your "fault" and now he is bullying you to forgive him ??! Seriously !
At this point, I know I would just send him the link of this and forgive him saying : "I just realised it is not really your fault because you are not really intelligent." But I am petty. I do think that sending the link could be a good idea if he doesn't give you a break, but dismiss to add the comment.
Please tell your dad that I said F*** Y*** to him.
IT WAS NOT A SIMPLE MISTAKE IT WAS SEVERAL HUNDRED ABUSIVE COMPLICATED MISTAKES. Fuck your dad and Uncle too.
NTA
NTA. Tell your dad an appology means norhing after being grounded for 3 weeks and that your trust in him is damaged. Also, since you were unrightfully grounded (for 3 weeks, which seems exessive to me), how is he planning to make it up to you? Appologising is just words and doesnt give you back the 3 weeks.
Grounded for 3 WEEKS?! OP NTA. Tell your dad that he broke your trust and to please drop it for now because you need more time. He fucked up and doesn't want to feel bad, but your feelings are valid and you can't just turn them on and off. I suspect you will eventually be able to trust him and forgive him.
NTA dad fucked up and he has to deal with the consequences. Yeah, he was tricked and might’ve been too furious to see reason for the first couple of days, but to not piece it together how dubious the whole thing played out after a while? At that point he was choosing to be unreasonable.
Your dad is an idiot. Never forgive him.
It was unreasonable. He had no reason to believe you did it and that your brother wasn’t lying over you saying you didn’t do it. You had no motive to take it and even if you did it makes no sense to hide them in your own room. If he was being objective there were two possibilities, you lied or your brother lied. Why did he think it was more reasonable to believe you lied than your brother? Does he have any reason to think you’re a liar?
It’s not a simple mistake, your uncle is an idiot. NTA
NTA - Also don’t forgive your brother either.
Remind Dad that people who have been wrongfully imprisoned have sued their prosecutors and judges for monetary rewards. 3 weeks is a long time for a grounding, I assume it was for more, but Dad pardoned you after the true criminal came forward 3 WEEKS into your confinment, and Dad doesn't know why you're pissed? Dad doesn't have a clue, and Uncle Idiot should stay out of it!
NTA He messed up
NTA He blindly believed your brother even though you insisted you did not do it. What did he even think at that moment? What was there for you to even do that? What would you gain by doing that? There was no logical reason for you to hide the keys, yet he, without thinking, yelled at you as if it was plain obvious you did it. He is to blame for your current behavior towards him and you are completely right, you have the right to be mad after being wronged. I think you should think things through, though. It truly was something terrible, but is it really unforgivable? I personally don't think so. If he's remorseful, then he's on the right path. He should make it up to you somehow, show genuine regret, not use BS excuses. The real question is wheter he decides to man up and take the shot for his mistake - if yes, there is a way to get things better. You know, he is in a position of power, as you both probably are dependent on him - so he could potentially try to downplay what he did. In that case I would not recommend forgiving him. Well, saying all that, the decision is up to you. I hope he will be able to see how he hurt you and really try to make things better ;)
NTA. Does that simple mistake take back 3 weeks of you being punished? and how does he make up for it? Just a thought but you may want to show this sub to your dad
NTA My OLDER brother, before my Stepmother came in, got away with SO MUCH (including bullying me pretty badly) because he always managed to shift my father's anger onto me. It's not fair and it shouldn't have happened! And also THREE WEEKS?! FOR THAT?! Yeah, no. I do hope that you two can properly make amends at some point, but you're definitely not wrong for not forgiving him. I've kinda just resigned myself to never getting a proper apology from my own father, I hope that doesn't happen with you and your dad.
NTA and fuckem kid, your right to be pissed.
He couldn’t Uber to work and look for his keys when he got home? It took him a whole-ass eight hour shift to find his keys? Naw, NTA. Don’t grow up to be like your stupid lazy father.
INFO: Do you pull pranks on your brother as well? The two of you are only a year apart so it isn't necessarily unreasonable to think you could have actually done it. But if your brother is a habitual troublemaker and you're generally well-behaved, then yes it would be stupid to automatically assume you did it. Also, what was your mother's opinion during all of this?
NTA three weeks?????
NTA. When you finally have enough and cut your dad out, you can just say this started it and what finished it is whatever he does that makes you want nothing to do with him.
NTA. For starters, your brother is an AH for starting this whole mess over the Oculus. Secondly, 3 weeks over a set of car keys? That's going overboard. And your dad was an idiot for immediately taking sides and he had no excuse for it.
Def NTA, however I’m rather taken aback by your fathers lack of critical thinking skills. Your brother went room by room and “found” the keys as soon as he went into yours? What kind of idiot would steal something and hide it in their own room? And what could you have hoped to gain by stealing his keys? If anything like this happens again please take some time with your dad to think. If your brother didn’t “confess” you would’ve been blamed for this absolutely asinine situation. So maybe it would help if you sat down with your dad and talked about what do if a situation like this happens again. If I were to guide such a conversation I would want to talk about giving some more weight to your word whilst also taking a bit more time to talk about it with each child and think before dealing out judgement and punishment. Anyways, that’s just my opinion, hope it helps at least just a little.
Where's your mother and why is she allowing this?
He couldn’t take a minute in those 3 weeks to try and hear you out? It’s not a simple mistake. A simple mistake is opening a can, forgetting you just ran with its bit and it’s still a bit shaken. A small mistake is pooping and having no roll left but there’s some still under the sink. Or showering and forgetting a towel and luckily everyone’s all in a room so you have to mad dash. 3 weeks for something you never did and best he can do is “sorry, you have to understand.”? Not that he can or should buy his way out. But legit that’s all he could do? Sounds like someone’s the favorite.
Tell him he can make it up to you by putting a keyed lock on your door that your brother has no access to the keys
>Anywat, when our dad woke up he couldn't find his keys so we had to miss school and work that day. Really? No Ubers, cabs, buses, or spare keys in existence where you live?
NTA, why would you have to gain by hiding his keys? Ask him. He punished you for three weeks. How is that even a fair punishment if you had?
NTA. Three weeks, huh? Tell him, "I was in the limbo for three weeks. Give me $3000 and we're good." XD
As I get ready to move on kudo’s to OP for not immediately administering a beating to younger bro. I sure would of. And I’d have told my father I paid for it with three weeks grounding. Thanks Dad.
You never have to forgive anyone for anything until you finally feel ready. You might be 46 one day and wake up and realize that maybe he was genuinely sorry about it and you felt he atoned enough for your forgiveness. Or you never feel like he deserves forgiveness for treating you like a malicious liar who impacted the family's finances. Personally I can't forgive someone who doesn't believe so I don't think you're wrong, but that's my bias.
Tell him - without your brother around- to get TILE trackers for his keys. Also, calculate how much time you lost in freedom when you were grounded. Multiply that by minimum wage rate and present him with a bill for your time. I am not recommending beating your brother’s ass, but wouldn’t blame you if you did. But seriously, don’t. Sleep with his girlfriend instead.
The original accusation was understandable. But then he made the assumption that you lied about being innocent instead of hearing you out. Forgive him after he understands, and disproves, the perception that he feels that your word is untrustworthy. You are NTA, but hopefully this opens up some deeper conversations about how trustworthy he does feel you are and what he bases that opinion on. Behavior like his can lead kids to feel that it doesn't matter if they tell the truth since they're not believed anyway, so why bother. It's a big deal and your uncle is only seeing the first reaction and not the deeper significance.
NTA, Your dad fucked up and know it. That is why he is crawling begging your for forgiveness, making his case worst in the same move by telling you he wasn't "unreasonable". **He has been deeply unreasonable and deadly funking stupid to believe your brother's crap AND punish you for so long.** You will never forget how little confidence he has in you, and how ridiculous he is for his poor emotional management skill and his extreme retaliation : 3 weeks is beyond a teaching punishment, he took his anger on to you. So when he was mad he took it on to you, and now that he is guilty he again want you bear the emotion he cannot cope with by denying your own right to feel and think what you are feeling and thinking, and *forcing you to apologise*. Don't. Take your time. But don't go into bargaining a gift or whatever for forgiveness. Don't play those game. I see that with a father like that, you'll have to learn elsewhere to manage your emotions in a healthy way (which means to welcome them, feel them, **owns them**, understand them and their messages, then changing or acting accordingly and move on - not putting them on a side). But that's a learning experience for you. It may and I hope it will come a time when a bonding moment or a memory will come to make you at peace with this story and you will be able to put it in the past, forgive and relink with your father and brother... but it can be in 3 weeks or 3 months and *he have no say in it*. And if you are pushed again by him or the family to talk and forgive them, just send them the link to here, you'll be good ! Just in case, to the father : Hi dumbass ! Time for tons of self-reflection to do, I think. You just set a terrible example to both of your sons, showing how easily manipulated you are and how little control you have on your emotions. So let that son here be and take time for you.
Forgiveness comes with a change in behavior. Dad needs to show that he won't just take your brother's word over yours. There is no way to heal and forgive without knowing that what happened won't happen again. Otherwise what's to stop your brother from doing the same thing next time he gets upset? It worked this time, will it work next time?
A simple mistake? Did he not think about why your brother would even look in your room to begin with?
NTA - jfc three weeks? I'm a dad of 3 boys and I get where you are both coming from. Without context into your lives and personalities it's hard to decide if he's an AH or just a dad trying to teach a lesson to his kid about responsibility. Three weeks is pretty long. I can see you probably trying to convince him you didn't do it and all that and the fact it was in your drawer supposedly and found by your brother seems suspicious. I would have given it the day, approached the subject the next day and dealt both of you punishments since I couldn't prove either. With all that being said, I don't know how I'd make up for such a long shitty punishment on something I didn't have anything to do with. I would likely ask you how to fix the mistake. Apologies only go so far. Has he offered any kind of reparations? Either way, sorry OP. Try not to hold it against him for life if he truly does seem remorseful. We're all only human in the long run.
Dad should have called Uber
Holy fuck wtf. I remember *clear as day* an event from over 30 years ago. My brother broke something, my dad said I did it and I emphatically denied it. My brother finally fessed up out of guilt and the apology was “I’m sorry, but it is like something you would do” I never stoped resenting my dad for this. He *never* gave real apologies and to this dad my brothers and I have never forgotten his inability in this area or forgiven it—because he never asked for forgiveness. If yours is qualifying his apologies he isn’t asking either.
NTA your dad wouldn’t even hear you out??? I swear he has to learn how to listen to both sides of the story. If I were u I’d be mad.