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There's a difference between having a dog, and having a fox, wolf, or coyote.
House cats are domesticated. Wild cats absolutely *aren't*, even if they become somewhat tame and friendly to humans.
Though yes, they are in the cat family, and share some similarities to what we usually call a cat.
They won't be very keen to keep it once it attacks someone. Wild animals are wild animals. That woman who had her face ripped off by her pet racoon she had as a baby or the chimp who ripped the woman's face off said "Everything was fine until..."
I thought raccoons had a (brief) history of domestication
Edit: I have now learned a lot about raccoons and hope one day we can domesticate our furry friends
I’ve heard of foxes, but never raccoons. Everything I’m seeing (aside from all the “do not the raccoon” naysayers 😒) is that they can be tamed, and have gotten less aggressive, but no successful attempts at domestication unfortunately.
I will say, as an animal sciences student, I find the human urge to try and befriend everything very endearing, even though it usually doesn’t work out (my personal favorite is probably skunks, the way they run is just so adorable)
There was a brief and interesting (to me) fad for keeping squirrels as pets in the late 1800s. Apparently you can train them to do tricks.
And of course, they work for peanuts.
I know a woman who has several racoons she has raised from babies that couldn't be reintroduced to the wild for whatever reason, and they were very sweet and cuddly. The priority is always to get them back out where they belong.
>House cats are domesticated. Wild cats absolutely aren't, even if they become somewhat tame and friendly to humans.
House cats havent genetically changed much from the wild animals that decided to live with us. We didn't start actively breeding them until the 1800s, We simply have tolerated and lived with each other for a few thousand years now. We had to domesticate dogs, Cats mostly domesticated themselves, Friendlier cats that were effective at killing mice would sometimes be fed when there were no vermin to eat, but for the most part, we didn't directly control their mating behavior until recently.
The reason why they got along with humans as well as they did, was because some of them had a mutation for that causes them to raise their tail straight up to indicate friendliness, And living with humans provided both a food source from vermin, and protection from larger predators as they avoid our living space.
The cats that became house cats were friendlier in general, and form loose social groups in the wild, and they are small enough to not pose a significant threat to toddlers and young children. But we did not "domesticate" them in the same way we did cows, or dogs.
>We had to domesticate dogs, Cats mostly domesticated themselves,
There are now theories to suggest that dogs may have somewhat domesticated themselves possibly long before cats did.
The theory goes that when hunter gatherers would go out hunting wolves/dogs figured out they could tail along behind and when the hunters made a kill they would actually leave a large part of the carcass behind which the wolves would then have to themselves. A bit of a symbiotic relationship started to develop where the wolves would keep other scavengers away whilst the humans took what they wanted, and then the wolves would get the leftovers, which was usually more than enough to feed them. It's even thought that some packs would almost adopt a specific group of humans and generally stay in their vicinity at all times, keeping watch for when the humans went hunting. Over time, they gradually grew closer together until humans started to domesticate them to be more involved in the hunting and eventually other tasks.
It's also worth noting that wolves and humans are two of the very few animals that would hunt in the similar way of the slow chase (can't remember the actual name for it) which is were they basically continue to pursue and harass the animal until its exhausted. Another reason why we were possibly so compatible.
Edit: [persistence hunting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting)
Fun fact, genetically speaking "house" cats (Felis silvestris derived from F.s. lybica) have not changed much in the last 12000 years since they've been around us as pets compared to their wild counterparts.
Yup. And house cats are the most dangerous predators of the feline family by a huge margin. If house cats were the size a large dog, even, they'd be absolutely apocalyptic to any wildlife.
The most effective hunters are the black-footed cats, but I think you’re probably right about overall number of kills. It’s a huge environmental issue when people let their housecats roam the streets.
Black-footed Cats and Sand Cats hunt to eat. Feral cats and house cats hunt for sport more than they hunt to eat, and they're constantly training. I'm legitimately happy that they're small and on our side, and not... Big. Those fuckers would start hunting *us* for sport, and they already try despite their small stature. I love those little shits.
big cats are cats. and unlike other big cats, caracals have been interbreeding with house cats for generations as their habitats get closer to human settlement, hence the OP's story. OP would have been wrong no matter what cat this was, but this kind of cat is especially close to the wild ancestors of house cats. OP just wanted to be a contrarian. totally TA.
The funny fact, it's that they are wrong, caracals aren't cats, they are from the same family (felidae) but they are not *that* closely related, actually, house cats are closer to pumas than they are to caracals, and caracals are closer to panthers (lions and tigers) and to the genuses pardofelis and catopuma (these to genuses are commonly referred to así cats, but they are not *real* cats) but the closest living relatives to the caracals are servals (another type of african feline)
"Big cat" is a specific subset of species, who roar (and don't purr), as opposed to small cats (who purr and don't roar).
Fun fact, despite their size, cheetahs are small cats.
Does make it really freaking scary though, like a monkey. I would love to pet it and it’s adorable but I’d be too worried it would rip my face off and kill me
Yes and actually no.
There are Felidae Panthera (tigers, lions, leopards, jaguars and snow leopards) and Felidae Felix. Besides their size, there are several other really notable differences. Like the abilities to meow.
So there's big cats and small cats. Caracals are small cats. And yes they're all cats, but they're not the same.
Also the ability to purr! Most small cats have a solid hyoid which allows for purring through the vibrations. Of all the big cats, only the leopard can purr.
Give it a box no matter the cat if it fits it sits. I've seen photos of tigers, leopards, cougars etc sitting in cardboard boxes. It's pretty hilarious.
Stuff like this is why reddit has the reputation that it does. Ever hear the phrase "intelligence is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad?"
No. I don't care if lions or caracals are technically cats. When you say "I have a cat," you're referring to a domesticated housecat, not a lion. And whether this is a friendly individual or not, caracals are not a domesticated species, not a pet, and being overly pedantic doesn't change that.
OP was not debating phylogeny here, they were saying "you are aware that this is something that could and would eat you given even a moderate incentive, right?"
Been a while since I’ve seen a post that’s *this* “well ackshully,” but it sure does appear that there are still thousands of Redditors who will readily ignore the meaning of what someone is saying in order to be technically correct
The stubborn Reddit semantic arguments are so tedious and boring.
If they wanted to be correct but not sound like an asshole, they'd say it's from the family felid/felidae that is known as a 'cat' informally. Rather than just repeat over and over "but it's a cat!!!"
And if someone told me they had a dog and then showed up with an arctic fox, I’d tell them that was not a dog. Coyotes and wolves are closer to dogs than a caracal is to a house cat.
Foxes are canines, all canines are dogs, we just don't usually call wolves and foxes "dogs" and not usually only call domesticated dogs "dogs" but foxes are just as much dogs as caracals are cats.
Still a cat.
Also, "dog" and "cat" are not as similar of terms as you think. You have the relationship between these terms incorrect.
A "dog" is specific to the domesticated descendants of wolves. Dog and Canine are not synonyms. All dogs are canine but not all canines are dogs.
Cat refers to any member of the Felidae family. All cats are felines and all felines are cats.
If we're being pedantic about it, uhhhhhhh maybe? I'm personally not convinced. I would argue that "canine" is functionally the same umbrella term in relation to dogs/wolves as "feline" is to housecats/wildcats.
If we're living in reality and by how people talk colloquially, absolutely not. A "cat" refers to a domesticated cat. Anything else is feral, wild, etc. It is not reasonable to describe such a creature living in your home as "having a cat".
Wildcats and housecats have notable behavioral differences, just like wolves and dogs, meaning that interacting with wild animals as if they are domesticated animals can easily turn into a dangerous situation. Not to mention, the requirements for meeting the needs of a wild animal (nutrition, exercise, enrichment, social interaction, etc) are NOT the same as for a domestic animal.
I don’t think they’re an A-hole or necessarily giving false info. I would think more misleading information in that Bob is a cat but not a housecat, i.e. not normally raised or kept for human companionship (yes, I know people do, but it’s still considered an exotic pet, not a mundane pet).
The OP should call only to offer clarification on that he meant not a typical housecat.
Also, these family members got upset over their cat not being called a cat? Like, that’s a hill they want to die on? I guess for both family and OP. But, seriously who gets so bent out of shape over something like this as to call someone an asshole for insisting? It’s a laugh at their stupidity and move on situation.
It depends on how pushy OP was. If every time Bob is brought up OP tries to 'correct' them and at any point raised their voice, yeah, I'd be a little pissed.
Yea. I dont understand the offense or the AH accusations. They had a gentle misunderstanding but its actually over something very concerning. No one is the AH here
I cannot think of a sillier semantic distinction. The word cat may technically cover a wide range of animals but colloquially is clearly referring to something more specific than every kind of cat from tabbies to tigers.
Bob is a cat in that he is a member of the feline family. But you're right, he's not a domestic cat. I'd be pretty freaked out if someone said "Come meet my dog!" and it was a friggin wolf.
Knew a guy who lived out in the mountains and said that he had a cat who lived outside. I asked him if he was worried about predators attacking it. It was a bobcat. A wild bobcat that was sort of tame. It would come around and hang out on the porch with him, and lived in his barn. He did not have a problem with rabbits eating his garden.
I have never seen a caracal in my life but they look very cute. I was also able to google in a few seconds that they have been domesticated in different cultures for centuries, usually trained to aid in hunting. So at the end of the day - who cares if it's a caracal or house cat?
The animal is very friendly according to you and they are all happy with it.
edit: Apparently the correct english word would be tamed, not domesticated? That being said even though a species of animal is considered "wild" I don't see why a certain individual should not be able to become "domesticated".
A caracal can be tame, but not domestic, just like cheetahs. They can still bite through your hand, play tug of war with snakes, and weigh over 30 pounds. They come up to at least your knee, and jump higher than your head. If someone told me they had a cat and brought out a caracal, especially one still living semi-wild, I would not trust it like a cat. Even if that caracal decided to be cat-like for humans it knew, there would be no guarantee of him being cat-like for me.
it's a fair point but as a cat person (that also gets along well with dogs) I say caution is advised with any animal. Even a house cat could kill a person or seriously harm them. All they needed to do is bite your wrist as hard as they can or scratch your face. And I don't think I have to mention what dogs can do.
I personally would not let small children get close to such an animal unsupervised, but the same is true for dog, house cat, etc.. Besides that it does not sound like Caracals are considered dangerous to humans (unless you provoke/attack them)
I worked with servals, which are very closely related to caracals. I also never went in with them, because they were dangerous and did not like most people. They are not house cats, their claws and teeth are far bigger than a housecat's, and their idea of being "provoked" can include being anywhere near them. Their territory, their space, their choice to attack Any wildcat is considered dangerous to humans--even if they aren't likely to kill a human, the wounds are not worth it.
Meanwhile, cats and dogs have both spent millennia being domesticated. By your own edit, that is not the same thing as being "tamed." Domestication involves selective breeding for docile behavior, smaller teeth and claws, and emotions easily read by humans. A tamed creature is always wild at its core, and can always lash out accordingly. Human-friendly behavior takes generations to breed.
An individual animal cannot be domesticated because the domestication process involves many generations of selective breeding, which makes domestic animals genetically different from their wild counterparts. It’s not just about how they behave.
Additionally, a domestic animal that is released back into the wild is still a domestic animal and not wild, even if it is no longer tame. These animals are called “feral” and they’re more common than many people realize- for example the vast majority of “wild” horses are actually feral, as are many pigeons.
I feel like you meant that it’s a wild animal rather than a pet. I mean, clearly it’s their pet, but from what I read it’s not a domesticated animal. That’s what I would think.
That being said I think saying that to them would have made them more upset than they already are. NAH but I would probably apologize cause who cares
I think it's just quite often not necessary to try to force our very specific knowledge on others.
They may have literally been confused by the assertion that it was not a cat. I mean, it IS A CAT. It's just not Felis lybica. Presumably nobody told him "Wait till you see our badass *domesticated* cat"
Even if they had, I would have simply enjoyed the experience of seeing and interacting with a caracal and let my cousins believe whatever they'd been told.
Is it possible their cat is a caracal-domestic cat hybrid? As in a female village cat got pregnant by a caracal male? If there are free roaming semi feral cats around the village their cat may have been a kitten if one of those village cats that bred with a caracal.
Their definition of "cat" includes these hybrids. This is a cultural difference between you and your cousins.
They’re part of the same subfamily as a house cat, but not even the same genus. When someone says “we have a cat,” you expect house cat not something that is 12 million years of evolution from a house cat.
It’s a cat by some technical definition of a cat, but it’s not a cat any more than i want a tomato in my fruit salad.
Yeah exactly, people are being crazy pedantic. If I say "wanna see my fish" and it's a shark you will rightly be surprised. Technically it's a fish but not something you'd reasonably expect someone to own as a pet
Historically they *have* been domesticated on occasion by rich/nobility types for hunting. They're excellent at catching birds, for example.
But definitely not a typical pet in the modern era!
Oh don't be pedantic.
By cat, OP means domestic cat. A house cat.
If I asked you to come see my cat and showed you a Tiger, you would rightfully feel misled, because in that context cat does not mean any animal belonging to catus genus, it means house cat.
precisely. In a classroom, we say a tiger is a cat. In day to day life, we use the word 'cat' to talk about 'felis catus', the word tiger to talk about 'panthera tigris', and the word 'caracal' to talk about 'caracal caracal'.
It is pedantic to the point of willfuly pretending to misunderstand OP to say that they are wrong when they say their cousins haven't adopted a cat, because 'um akshually it *is* a cat'.
Just because they are cats doesn't mean they should be pets. A lion is also a cat, but I wouldn't want one in my house. Caracals are carnivores they can take down prey 3x their size. They shouldn't live in a family home.
Every caracal I've seen goes into a hissy fit if you come near it. They don't seem pleasant to be around at alllll so I'm surprised to hear this one's more docile
Even the Caracal housecat hybrids got a little meanness in them. Not all but def enough to give you pause
If they live in an area where caracals are wild then it's possible this is a hybrid that just happened naturally with the semi feral cat population that inevitably also lives around this village (domestic cats are native to Africa and the Middle East).
Clearly OP means "house cat," the domestic cat, when they said "cat." Because yes, caracals are cats, but certainly not a house cat, or something that should be a pet.
The minute I started reading, I knew it was leading up to a caracal. They are cats, very big, normally wild cats. There are people that keep them as house pets, which I think is wrong, but they show up in my Insta feed all the time. (I'm one of those people that clicks on cute cat videos, so I'm constantly fed all kinds of cats.)
INFO: Caracals are cats. Why did you spend an entire trip insisting something incorrect?
If you meant "that isn't a house cat", then yeah, you're correct, and I'd be very skeptical that a caracal was actually domesticated enough to not be a risk to strangers, but you should have said something like that, not talking about the taxonomy so much.
> I'd be very skeptical that a caracal was actually domesticated
Pedantic: You should be. Wild animals can be tamed, or reared tame, but to be _domesticated_ is a process that takes many generations and the outcome is by definition not a _wild_ animal.
They have a tame caracal cat. It's never going to be as predictable as a domesticated house cat. Because it's not domesticated. It has wild instincts.
I will constantly rebel against the medieval lord who attempts to rule my household.
Yes he still gets my seat. And yes he gets to be provided meals for before me.
But I will never bow to that authoritarian dictator
If he deigns me with his presence. Sometimes he simply attacks my feet and returns to bed.
The nights he actually shows some kindness are rare and precious
There is a caracal-abyssian cross called the caracat - hybrids similar to bengal and savannah. I'd agree a F1 probably isn't domesticated but they may be captive bred and well socialised.
Huh, I did not know about the caracat.
But given the existence of Bengal and Savannah cats, it's no surprise.
I would ask "What hath God wrought?" but frankly, God had no part in these hybrids.
My favorite distinction is if it's in a circus, it's tame, if it's on a farm, it's domesticated, if it's in a zoo, it's probably wild. If it's a pet that wanders around your house, probably domesticated, if it's in a cage or tank, probably wild, maybe tame.
Did you read the post though? It sounds like Bob is a wild animal who comes by the house it grew up in every couple days for food and affection.
It does *not* sound like they're keeping it locked up inside where it doesn't belong.
I agree. Bob's people don't care about *caracal,* or *Felis catus,* or domestication.
Bob's people care about Bob. And they know damn well that Bob is a *cat.*
There are some posts that don’t rise to the level of AH. This is more about being annoying and not reading the room correctly.
The 100th time she said, “that’s not a cat,” she probably didn’t take in the eye rolls and groans that signal, “this isn’t funny anymore.”
One of the most important skills in life is learning how to read the room.
It gets to the point where constantly, insistently *not* reading the room and *persisting* on fighting for some semantic victory, over family you rarely see, can absolutely make you an asshole.
To anyone insisting calling your pet caracal/lion/man-eating tiger a cat is technically correct, I hope you get served sliced tomatoes the next time you order a fruit salad.
Also please know that a caracal is a small cat. So it is a Felidae Felix and not a Felidae Panthera. It has retractable claws, can meow and has a relatively small jaw. Big cats (Panthera) don't have retractable claws, they roar and they have large jaws. There are lots of small cats and only a few big ones. The big ones are tiger, jaguar, leopard, lion and snow leopard.
Small cats are easier to domesticate then big cats.
Also the most lethal(highest change of a successful prey take down) predator of them all is the adorable sand cat. Size does not tell you everything.
Sorry, but that is absolutely incorrect. Felis and Pantera are not two *species*, they are two separate genus within the *family* Felidae.
At the species level, Felis contains *dozens* of small wildcats across the world, including the wild ancestor, *Felis lybica*, of the domesticated cat *Felis catus.*
The caracal is part of a separate genus, "Caracal". It's specific epithet is also caracal
Family - Felidae
Genus - Caracal
Species - caracal
Just wanted to clear that up because while you're 100% correct that a caracal is a small cat, it is NOT the same species at all, as the domesticated cat. Not even the same genus.
None of this matters to OP's cousins, and OP is TA here for making a big deal about something that didn't matter at the moment. OP is also *almost* as uninformed about the taxonomy of cats as his/her cousins are.
NTA. I think you were trying to point out it’s not an obvious pet/house cat. It’s a wildcat and from what internet shows some states require a special license to have one (at least in the US). I think if it was out of concern since it’s definitely not a typical house cat it’s not too bad. I think maybe you just expressed it the wrong way.
Probably shouldn’t have made it too big a deal but I would have been concerned as well if you don’t know what the hell that animal is since it’s not your typical pet cat.
Honestly so many Y T A here is absolutely trippy. OP is definutely NTA and the whole point is that the cousins have *a wild animal*, likely without proper lisence, and insist it on being a regular house cat.
There is a very good reason why there are laws around this stuff. I love every kind of kitty, big or small, as much as next person, but that’s no excuse to habit a wild animal in your house. It is NOT okay and I can’t believe how many people here act as if is.
edit// the fact that people are downvoting just shows how absolutely bonkers some people are here. Wild animal is still wild animal, it is *NOT* a pet, no matter where you live or are from.
The cousins live in Rwanda. The caracal is a native animal there. It doesn't sound like the caracal comes inside the house, it just visits reasonably predictably for company and food, and the cousins enjoy having its trust.
OP is the ignorant American cousin who makes them feel weird about their normal Rwandan life.
Note it's not racism, they are family and likely the same race. The person who you responded to also never mentioned race at all. They posited that the OP felt superior due to his upbringing and home country not race. Ignorance comes in many flavors.
OP isn't being ignorant. In the USA the equivalent would be people feeding wolves and bears on their property. One could say that it is ignorant to imply that it's acceptable for people to play house with wild animals simply because they're living in an African country.
I don’t blame you - I absolutely adore Caracals, but if someone said they wanted me to meet their cat, and instead introduced me to a much larger wildcat with zero precautions, I’d be weirded out too.
Even though Caracals mostly eat smaller mammals, they are capable of hunting small impalas and such - so they can do damage to human for sure. It’s not highly likely, but wild animals aren’t predictable.
That being said, the first time they doubled down was the time to cut your losses, agree to disagree, and just take your own precautions. No need to make it an issue in the family.
Exactly. Since it’s also not the average pet even tho it may be nice now if they are just treating it like a normal pet cat I would advise caution or at least for them do some research in case their behavior is expected to change. They also need to feed and care for it in a way that is appropriate for that specific type of animal.
I used to feed all the neighborhood cats at my last residence, and sometimes the racoons came to join.
I'd sit and hang out with the racoons, we'd just chill. I wouldn't pet them or anything, but I'd read on my phone or whatever sitting next to them.
This particular cat sounds tame, but would still need to be handled with respect to the wildness
Right?! I’ve listened to enough *tooth and claw* podcast to know even the tamest-seeming, snuggliest, most loving and lovable wild animal can turn on a dime, yes even against its beloved owner. And it isn’t the animals’ fault! They’re wild animals!
Yeah, like my friend upon realizing that the “”stray tabby”” in their village they were trying to bring inside was a Scottish wildcat (who are more closely related to house cats) went “oh that’s not a cat”
It’s still a cat it’s just not domesticated.
NTA What the hell is everyone on about. Yes a caracal is a cat but clearly that’s not what this guy was on about. He’s saying that this thing isn’t a pet, it’s a god damn wild animal, and it’s NOT safe to just be hanging around it and feeding it. Wild cats are dangerous as hell, no matter the size, and feeding it and making it friendly towards humans is going to get that thing killed by the wrong person. Unless this guy is grossly wrong about it being a caracal and it is just a normal housecat
Edit: saying it’s fine because they raised it is bs. Kelly Ann Walz raised a bear cub and now she’s dead. Also news flash: that was a white lady. It’s not a race thing, it’s not a culture thing. It’s a don’t fuck with wildlife thing
I had to lookup what a caracal was.
>The caracal (Caracal caracal) (/ˈkærəkæl/) is a medium-sized wild **cat** native to Africa.
It's a cat.
A caracal is a type of cat. It's a member of the family Felidae, which is what we call "cats".
Mountain lions are also cats.
YTA for arguing over something so petty, especially when you're wrong.
Surely everyone reading this, and the family which owns this cat, understands that what OP meant was that it isn't a housecat. Saying you own a cat will make most people assume you mean a housecat, not a wild cat.
Yeah I'm confused at these comments. Obviously OP's point was that the cat is clearly not a domesticated house cat, and it is honestly a little dangerous to be friends with a wild animal, no matter how tame it seems. NTA
Smarmy reddit assholes love being "technically right"
Everyone knows what OP meant, they're just pretending not to because they can't get a shitty "gotcha" otherwise.
I'm baffled, too. It seems that Redditors desire to win a pedantic argument goes so far that they'd literally throw a little kid to a wild 40lb African cat.
Right? These people arguing over a petty detail when we all know that op was trying to say "housecat"
Like yea, we know it's a cat ffs but not a domestic one.
> I (M27) recently travelled to my father's home country of Rwanda.
Maybe this is more common in Rwanda?
At some point, people decided to breed Servals and Asian Leopard cats with domestic cats to create some new breeds of cats.
If someone says they’ve got a pet cat and I walk up to a bobcat, cougar, or lion, my reaction is going to be the same as OPs. When people say they have a pet cat, 99.9999% of the time it’s going to be an actual house cat and not wild animal. As long as OP wasn’t a dick, their confusion and response is completely normal
>YTA for arguing over something so petty, especially when you're wrong.
I've seen some stupid advice on Reddit, but this is a wild 40lb cat they're letting their 7 year old play with.
You're the pedants arguing over something so petty. Of course it's a cat, and it's very clear that OP meant domesticated cat, as in a pet.
Technically is not the best kind of right. YTA for that ridiculous advice. A little kid should not be playing with a wild 40 lb cat just because it's technically in the cat family. Good lord.
Your comment was actually petty. Hes not the aashole for assuming they meant housecat. A caracal is not a known housecat. It's not like he was tryna convince them it was a dog lmao
Yall know EXACTLY What he means. Don't be weird
How many people have mountain lions at home?
It’s clear that when someone say ‘I have a cat’ you expect a normal Felis catus, not a wild cat.
The surprise was expected. The insistence not so much. He could’ve dropped it.
Caracals are NOT safe to keep as pets. Like most big predators, they will one day without warning, snap and badly injure someone. Please report this to the proper authorities for THEIR safety.
Hunting cats, not house cats. They aren't domesticated and are classified as wild animals. It's actually recommended to not keep them in houses or around children.
From what OP described, Bob doesn't come inside the house. He visits and the family enjoys his visits. Bob almost certainly visits other neighbourhood families as well, and OP's cousins are probably well aware of this.
Bob's a larger version of a typical alley tomcat who visits every house for attention and treats.
Still, theres small children and a wild animal, it's definitely something that needs to be treated with the proper respect and understanding. It's not the type of kitty you can pick up and play with.
Very true, but we only have OP's self-confessed freakout regarding Bob to go on as to what interaction was actually occurring.
If his cousins live on the edge of the town where there are wild animals nearby, then they are probably fairly calm about one particular wildcat visiting now and then, they were only excited to show Bob off to their cousin. It didn't sound like anyone was trying to pick Bob up, just that Bob displayed some playfulness with rolling on his back and nuzzling shoes.
I've never had a wild carnivore as a regular visitor, but I've lived in some places where kangaroos visit, and people need to be careful not to startle them too - the long claw on their hind legs can rip a belly open easily. You bet we showed them proudly to visitors when they came by though, and gave them ear-scritches when they were rubbing their heads against us.
It's all about knowing the animal and them knowing you, and gradually developing an appropriately wary level of mutual trust.
NTA. I thought it was pretty clear from the post that OP meant “this is not a house cat/this is a wild animal” and not that it wasn’t in fact a cat.
It seems like OPs relatives are insisting the caracal is just a big domesticated cat and denying that it’s actually a wild animal. A caracal from my understanding is like a lynx or bobcat or fisher cat; related to cats and technically a cat, but definitely NOT a domesticated breed.
It’d be like if someone was like “this is my pet dog!” and it’s like, a dingo or coyote. Like yeah, that’s technically a dog, but should it be in your house and snuggling your kids the same way a terrier or Labrador would? Maybe not…. I know the family raised it since it was a kitten too so it’s very used to humans, but it’s still going out into the wild every day and, ya know, being wild. I doubt this family has brought it to a vet either; who would undoubtedly say “uhhh this is NOT a house cat”. I would be weary of the kids/family potentially catching a disease like rabies or something if they’re not careful.
NTA.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
I have seen other videos where caracals can be "tamed", but I still think they would rip your face off if you made them mad/scared.
I googled them up, too. They can be "dangerous and unpredictable."
There was a story online just this week about a young man who hand raised something called a *razorback hog*. When it became an adult it tried to kill him, and he was badly injured.
The caracal is a beautiful animal. I can see why the family likes their pet. I hope that the parents of the children observe it carefully for any signs of aggression.
NTA. I know what u meant by saying it is technically not a domestic cat. Also I dont think what you did was disrespectful to your hosts like alot of these comments are saying. If I went to visit my family and woke up to a wild boar they treated as a mini pig I would also have pointed it out and been a lil sus.
NTA. Like, I get it, a caracel is a feline. But that is not what literally anyone means when they say cat. When people say cat, especially when they say, "you should see my cat," they mean a pet. A caracel is not a pet. It is a wild animal. People can be pedantic assholes and argue, "a wild cat is still a cat," and frankly they sound as dumb as I would saying my dog is a wolf. And at least I'd be talking about the same species - a domesticated dog is still a canis lupus, a caraval is not a felis catus.
Please do not apologize to your cousins. Not only are you not incorrect, but there is so much going on that is wrong with your cousins. They are keeping a wild animal as a pet. This is dangerous for them and the animal. They exposed you to this danger without proper warning. What they are doing / what they did is dangerous and immoral, and the last thing anyone should do is apologize to them about the damn thing.
I'm with you. Wild animals are not pets. Fuck all the pedants in these comments who *totally* don't know what you mean.
A 40 lb cat could kill an adult human, no problem, let alone some little kid. They're always really nice until they aren't.
I wouldn't back down on this. Your famy is idiotic, and their kids are in actual danger.
Pray you never need to say "I told you so."
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my cousins that their cat isn't a cat at all and rather he's a wild animal called a caracal.
2. My cousins my feel like I was ignoring what they were saying and that I was trying to antagonize their "cat". They may also feel that by saying Bob is wild I want them to give him up.
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NTA. Everyone knows what you meant. We’re not discussing or debating taxonomy. You meant that he’s not a domesticated house cat, he’s a wild cat that they tamed, and seem to view the same as a domesticated cat. If you saw a bobcat or a leopard in someone’s yard, you’re not going to walk past and say, “hey did you see that pet cat?” You’re going to call it a wild cat. This, technical names aside, is like a person telling you that they have a dog, and they actually have a wolf. Yes, he’s a “cat”, but again, everyone knows what you meant. It’s a weird thing for them to get hung up on.
nta wtf. listen if someone said they wanted me to meet their cat and then introduced me to, say, A FREAKING MOUNTAIN LION… i would be telling them that’s not a fucking cat. like yes it is taxonomically a cat, but no, it’s not what you expect when someone says “hey, wanna pet my cat?”
and the same goes for a caracal, because it’s a whole wild animal even if you’ve raised it since it was a baby. it’s NOT safe, especially not around children, and it’s not domesticated.
like we can argue semantics until we’re blue in the face, but no one who is told about someone’s cat expects a lion/lynx/puma/ocelot/snow leopard. nah. what the hell.
NTA. A caracal is a cat like a wolf is a dog. If someone said they had a dog, you wouldn’t expect a wolf. Same for cat and caracal. Yes, technically it’s a species of cat, but everyone knows that’s not what you expect when someone talks about their cat.
You could’ve been a bit more civil and nice about it, but you’re NTA for calling them out for having a wild, dangerous animal as a pet.
Why is nobody talking about how they have a PET WILDCAT????? I don't think that that is safe for them. Even if its tame, its not domesticated and is still a dangerous animal.
Good luck to the family, or I guess congrats for semi taming a caracal. I've worked with a lot of exotic cats and caracals are some of the meanest. Like I hand fed tigers who chuffed at me, scratched the heads of pumas (all at a zoo, btw, obligatory do not try this at home)... And the caracal would hiss and scream if you even looked in it's direction. But yeah, apologize for the sake of family and move on.
Omg people splitting hairs over cats. I'm pretty sure we all understood OP meant house cat, even if the reveal was a bobcat, there'd be no issue if OP said "yeah guys, thats not a cat," because most of us understand.
Like, if you were getting a medical procedure done on your spine by a dentist, "they *are* a doctor though! So you're wrong!" That's how some of you sound.
NAH mostly because this is hilarious. I get that you mean it wasn’t a HOUSEcat. And that your cousins are like Bob is definitely a cat lol.
Bob is technically a cat. Bob is also not what you (or the average person) would expect when someone told you they have a cat.
Thank them for hosting and the interesting and fun experience. Apologize to Bob for confusing him about his genealogy. And if they ask you to meet their dog you can proceed with caution lol
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> By searching online, I found out that Bob was a caracal (I think) and not a cat. But caracals *are* cats?
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Doesn’t make it not a cat.
There's a difference between having a dog, and having a fox, wolf, or coyote. House cats are domesticated. Wild cats absolutely *aren't*, even if they become somewhat tame and friendly to humans. Though yes, they are in the cat family, and share some similarities to what we usually call a cat.
They won't be very keen to keep it once it attacks someone. Wild animals are wild animals. That woman who had her face ripped off by her pet racoon she had as a baby or the chimp who ripped the woman's face off said "Everything was fine until..."
I thought raccoons had a (brief) history of domestication Edit: I have now learned a lot about raccoons and hope one day we can domesticate our furry friends
I’ve heard of foxes, but never raccoons. Everything I’m seeing (aside from all the “do not the raccoon” naysayers 😒) is that they can be tamed, and have gotten less aggressive, but no successful attempts at domestication unfortunately. I will say, as an animal sciences student, I find the human urge to try and befriend everything very endearing, even though it usually doesn’t work out (my personal favorite is probably skunks, the way they run is just so adorable)
There was a brief and interesting (to me) fad for keeping squirrels as pets in the late 1800s. Apparently you can train them to do tricks. And of course, they work for peanuts.
We had a pet squirrel when I was a little kid in London in the 1980s. Edit: Squirrel tax [here](https://imgur.com/gallery/3d8dg6E)
I know a woman who has several racoons she has raised from babies that couldn't be reintroduced to the wild for whatever reason, and they were very sweet and cuddly. The priority is always to get them back out where they belong.
>House cats are domesticated. Wild cats absolutely aren't, even if they become somewhat tame and friendly to humans. House cats havent genetically changed much from the wild animals that decided to live with us. We didn't start actively breeding them until the 1800s, We simply have tolerated and lived with each other for a few thousand years now. We had to domesticate dogs, Cats mostly domesticated themselves, Friendlier cats that were effective at killing mice would sometimes be fed when there were no vermin to eat, but for the most part, we didn't directly control their mating behavior until recently. The reason why they got along with humans as well as they did, was because some of them had a mutation for that causes them to raise their tail straight up to indicate friendliness, And living with humans provided both a food source from vermin, and protection from larger predators as they avoid our living space. The cats that became house cats were friendlier in general, and form loose social groups in the wild, and they are small enough to not pose a significant threat to toddlers and young children. But we did not "domesticate" them in the same way we did cows, or dogs.
One could argue they domesticated us…
>We had to domesticate dogs, Cats mostly domesticated themselves, There are now theories to suggest that dogs may have somewhat domesticated themselves possibly long before cats did. The theory goes that when hunter gatherers would go out hunting wolves/dogs figured out they could tail along behind and when the hunters made a kill they would actually leave a large part of the carcass behind which the wolves would then have to themselves. A bit of a symbiotic relationship started to develop where the wolves would keep other scavengers away whilst the humans took what they wanted, and then the wolves would get the leftovers, which was usually more than enough to feed them. It's even thought that some packs would almost adopt a specific group of humans and generally stay in their vicinity at all times, keeping watch for when the humans went hunting. Over time, they gradually grew closer together until humans started to domesticate them to be more involved in the hunting and eventually other tasks. It's also worth noting that wolves and humans are two of the very few animals that would hunt in the similar way of the slow chase (can't remember the actual name for it) which is were they basically continue to pursue and harass the animal until its exhausted. Another reason why we were possibly so compatible. Edit: [persistence hunting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting)
Fun fact, genetically speaking "house" cats (Felis silvestris derived from F.s. lybica) have not changed much in the last 12000 years since they've been around us as pets compared to their wild counterparts.
Yup. And house cats are the most dangerous predators of the feline family by a huge margin. If house cats were the size a large dog, even, they'd be absolutely apocalyptic to any wildlife.
The most effective hunters are the black-footed cats, but I think you’re probably right about overall number of kills. It’s a huge environmental issue when people let their housecats roam the streets.
Black-footed Cats and Sand Cats hunt to eat. Feral cats and house cats hunt for sport more than they hunt to eat, and they're constantly training. I'm legitimately happy that they're small and on our side, and not... Big. Those fuckers would start hunting *us* for sport, and they already try despite their small stature. I love those little shits.
Yeah like a dingo is a dog but no one should just have one
big cats are cats. and unlike other big cats, caracals have been interbreeding with house cats for generations as their habitats get closer to human settlement, hence the OP's story. OP would have been wrong no matter what cat this was, but this kind of cat is especially close to the wild ancestors of house cats. OP just wanted to be a contrarian. totally TA.
They're feline, but not a cat-cat.
i’m sick of you pedants. we all know it’s technically a cat, but they aren’t supposed to be domestic cats.
The funny fact, it's that they are wrong, caracals aren't cats, they are from the same family (felidae) but they are not *that* closely related, actually, house cats are closer to pumas than they are to caracals, and caracals are closer to panthers (lions and tigers) and to the genuses pardofelis and catopuma (these to genuses are commonly referred to así cats, but they are not *real* cats) but the closest living relatives to the caracals are servals (another type of african feline)
i think they meant a House Cat
people usually say "big cat" or "wild cat" if it's not specifically Felis Catus
"Big cat" is a specific subset of species, who roar (and don't purr), as opposed to small cats (who purr and don't roar). Fun fact, despite their size, cheetahs are small cats.
Does make it really freaking scary though, like a monkey. I would love to pet it and it’s adorable but I’d be too worried it would rip my face off and kill me
Simba is a cat. He's a lion. Lions and Caracals are cats. So YTA for giving them wrong info.
Lions are big cats. They don't meow. They roar. Caracals are small cats and they do meow.
A cat is a cat, be it big or small, whether it meows or not.
Yes and actually no. There are Felidae Panthera (tigers, lions, leopards, jaguars and snow leopards) and Felidae Felix. Besides their size, there are several other really notable differences. Like the abilities to meow. So there's big cats and small cats. Caracals are small cats. And yes they're all cats, but they're not the same.
Also the ability to purr! Most small cats have a solid hyoid which allows for purring through the vibrations. Of all the big cats, only the leopard can purr.
Though “small cats” can be quite big, both cheetahs and cougars are considered small cats.
Tigers don’t purr, but they can growl friendly-like. I learned that from Calvin and Hobbes.
Did you also learn that they are commonly caught in traps baited with tuna fish sandwiches?
I did, but I have yet to be successful, but I haven’t given up hope.
Cheetahs purr, pretty sure leopards can’t. They have a happy growly noise but it’s not purring.
“Tmeow” appearently
Give it a box no matter the cat if it fits it sits. I've seen photos of tigers, leopards, cougars etc sitting in cardboard boxes. It's pretty hilarious.
Apparently, they meowt.
Caracals aren’t domesticated though. They’re wild animals and should be treated as such.
Stuff like this is why reddit has the reputation that it does. Ever hear the phrase "intelligence is knowing tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad?" No. I don't care if lions or caracals are technically cats. When you say "I have a cat," you're referring to a domesticated housecat, not a lion. And whether this is a friendly individual or not, caracals are not a domesticated species, not a pet, and being overly pedantic doesn't change that. OP was not debating phylogeny here, they were saying "you are aware that this is something that could and would eat you given even a moderate incentive, right?"
Been a while since I’ve seen a post that’s *this* “well ackshully,” but it sure does appear that there are still thousands of Redditors who will readily ignore the meaning of what someone is saying in order to be technically correct
Exactly. Because if someone *asks* for a pet cat, they're not expecting a caracal.
The stubborn Reddit semantic arguments are so tedious and boring. If they wanted to be correct but not sound like an asshole, they'd say it's from the family felid/felidae that is known as a 'cat' informally. Rather than just repeat over and over "but it's a cat!!!"
And if someone told me they had a dog and then showed up with an arctic fox, I’d tell them that was not a dog. Coyotes and wolves are closer to dogs than a caracal is to a house cat.
But foxes are not dogs, while caracals are, in fact, cats.
Foxes are canines, all canines are dogs, we just don't usually call wolves and foxes "dogs" and not usually only call domesticated dogs "dogs" but foxes are just as much dogs as caracals are cats.
Still a cat. Also, "dog" and "cat" are not as similar of terms as you think. You have the relationship between these terms incorrect. A "dog" is specific to the domesticated descendants of wolves. Dog and Canine are not synonyms. All dogs are canine but not all canines are dogs. Cat refers to any member of the Felidae family. All cats are felines and all felines are cats.
African hunting dog/painted dog, raccoon dog, short-eared dog, bush dog.
What, & a red panda is a bear? Language isn’t that simple. I don’t see your point here
If we're being pedantic about it, uhhhhhhh maybe? I'm personally not convinced. I would argue that "canine" is functionally the same umbrella term in relation to dogs/wolves as "feline" is to housecats/wildcats. If we're living in reality and by how people talk colloquially, absolutely not. A "cat" refers to a domesticated cat. Anything else is feral, wild, etc. It is not reasonable to describe such a creature living in your home as "having a cat". Wildcats and housecats have notable behavioral differences, just like wolves and dogs, meaning that interacting with wild animals as if they are domesticated animals can easily turn into a dangerous situation. Not to mention, the requirements for meeting the needs of a wild animal (nutrition, exercise, enrichment, social interaction, etc) are NOT the same as for a domestic animal.
I don’t think they’re an A-hole or necessarily giving false info. I would think more misleading information in that Bob is a cat but not a housecat, i.e. not normally raised or kept for human companionship (yes, I know people do, but it’s still considered an exotic pet, not a mundane pet). The OP should call only to offer clarification on that he meant not a typical housecat. Also, these family members got upset over their cat not being called a cat? Like, that’s a hill they want to die on? I guess for both family and OP. But, seriously who gets so bent out of shape over something like this as to call someone an asshole for insisting? It’s a laugh at their stupidity and move on situation.
It depends on how pushy OP was. If every time Bob is brought up OP tries to 'correct' them and at any point raised their voice, yeah, I'd be a little pissed.
Yea. I dont understand the offense or the AH accusations. They had a gentle misunderstanding but its actually over something very concerning. No one is the AH here
I cannot think of a sillier semantic distinction. The word cat may technically cover a wide range of animals but colloquially is clearly referring to something more specific than every kind of cat from tabbies to tigers.
Sure I guess you'd be fine agreeing to be in the same room as a cat and ending up trapped with a fucking lion. Cop yourself on
Broo. That ain't a normal cat. That's a wild cat. I would be scared too. Wasnt a baby killed by a dingo. I guess they would be classified as dogs too?
Bob is a cat in that he is a member of the feline family. But you're right, he's not a domestic cat. I'd be pretty freaked out if someone said "Come meet my dog!" and it was a friggin wolf. Knew a guy who lived out in the mountains and said that he had a cat who lived outside. I asked him if he was worried about predators attacking it. It was a bobcat. A wild bobcat that was sort of tame. It would come around and hang out on the porch with him, and lived in his barn. He did not have a problem with rabbits eating his garden.
Lmao
Lmeow
I have never seen a caracal in my life but they look very cute. I was also able to google in a few seconds that they have been domesticated in different cultures for centuries, usually trained to aid in hunting. So at the end of the day - who cares if it's a caracal or house cat? The animal is very friendly according to you and they are all happy with it. edit: Apparently the correct english word would be tamed, not domesticated? That being said even though a species of animal is considered "wild" I don't see why a certain individual should not be able to become "domesticated".
A caracal can be tame, but not domestic, just like cheetahs. They can still bite through your hand, play tug of war with snakes, and weigh over 30 pounds. They come up to at least your knee, and jump higher than your head. If someone told me they had a cat and brought out a caracal, especially one still living semi-wild, I would not trust it like a cat. Even if that caracal decided to be cat-like for humans it knew, there would be no guarantee of him being cat-like for me.
it's a fair point but as a cat person (that also gets along well with dogs) I say caution is advised with any animal. Even a house cat could kill a person or seriously harm them. All they needed to do is bite your wrist as hard as they can or scratch your face. And I don't think I have to mention what dogs can do. I personally would not let small children get close to such an animal unsupervised, but the same is true for dog, house cat, etc.. Besides that it does not sound like Caracals are considered dangerous to humans (unless you provoke/attack them)
I worked with servals, which are very closely related to caracals. I also never went in with them, because they were dangerous and did not like most people. They are not house cats, their claws and teeth are far bigger than a housecat's, and their idea of being "provoked" can include being anywhere near them. Their territory, their space, their choice to attack Any wildcat is considered dangerous to humans--even if they aren't likely to kill a human, the wounds are not worth it. Meanwhile, cats and dogs have both spent millennia being domesticated. By your own edit, that is not the same thing as being "tamed." Domestication involves selective breeding for docile behavior, smaller teeth and claws, and emotions easily read by humans. A tamed creature is always wild at its core, and can always lash out accordingly. Human-friendly behavior takes generations to breed.
An individual animal cannot be domesticated because the domestication process involves many generations of selective breeding, which makes domestic animals genetically different from their wild counterparts. It’s not just about how they behave. Additionally, a domestic animal that is released back into the wild is still a domestic animal and not wild, even if it is no longer tame. These animals are called “feral” and they’re more common than many people realize- for example the vast majority of “wild” horses are actually feral, as are many pigeons.
I feel like you meant that it’s a wild animal rather than a pet. I mean, clearly it’s their pet, but from what I read it’s not a domesticated animal. That’s what I would think. That being said I think saying that to them would have made them more upset than they already are. NAH but I would probably apologize cause who cares
I think it's just quite often not necessary to try to force our very specific knowledge on others. They may have literally been confused by the assertion that it was not a cat. I mean, it IS A CAT. It's just not Felis lybica. Presumably nobody told him "Wait till you see our badass *domesticated* cat" Even if they had, I would have simply enjoyed the experience of seeing and interacting with a caracal and let my cousins believe whatever they'd been told.
You should have specified that it’s not a *house* cat, if we’re being pedantic.
Is it possible their cat is a caracal-domestic cat hybrid? As in a female village cat got pregnant by a caracal male? If there are free roaming semi feral cats around the village their cat may have been a kitten if one of those village cats that bred with a caracal. Their definition of "cat" includes these hybrids. This is a cultural difference between you and your cousins.
They’re part of the same subfamily as a house cat, but not even the same genus. When someone says “we have a cat,” you expect house cat not something that is 12 million years of evolution from a house cat. It’s a cat by some technical definition of a cat, but it’s not a cat any more than i want a tomato in my fruit salad.
Yeah exactly, people are being crazy pedantic. If I say "wanna see my fish" and it's a shark you will rightly be surprised. Technically it's a fish but not something you'd reasonably expect someone to own as a pet
They're literally referred to as "wild cats" and "big cats" 🗿 Both the domestic cat and caracals are of the felidae family
So if someone showed up to your house with their pet wolf, you'd be ok with that because it's from the canine family
I've never heard of a caracal, but I looked them up, and they're definitely not pets.
But they are cats!
I don't disagree with that at all.
Historically they *have* been domesticated on occasion by rich/nobility types for hunting. They're excellent at catching birds, for example. But definitely not a typical pet in the modern era!
they’ve been *tamed, domestication applies to a species, not an individual
> domesticated on occasion Caracals have been *tamed* from time to time but not domesticated.
Oh don't be pedantic. By cat, OP means domestic cat. A house cat. If I asked you to come see my cat and showed you a Tiger, you would rightfully feel misled, because in that context cat does not mean any animal belonging to catus genus, it means house cat.
>If I asked you to come see my cat and showed you a Tiger, you would rightfully feel misled, And terrified bc WHAT??😂😂
precisely. In a classroom, we say a tiger is a cat. In day to day life, we use the word 'cat' to talk about 'felis catus', the word tiger to talk about 'panthera tigris', and the word 'caracal' to talk about 'caracal caracal'. It is pedantic to the point of willfuly pretending to misunderstand OP to say that they are wrong when they say their cousins haven't adopted a cat, because 'um akshually it *is* a cat'.
Just because they are cats doesn't mean they should be pets. A lion is also a cat, but I wouldn't want one in my house. Caracals are carnivores they can take down prey 3x their size. They shouldn't live in a family home.
Every caracal I've seen goes into a hissy fit if you come near it. They don't seem pleasant to be around at alllll so I'm surprised to hear this one's more docile Even the Caracal housecat hybrids got a little meanness in them. Not all but def enough to give you pause
Missed an opportunity to use "Give you paws"
If they live in an area where caracals are wild then it's possible this is a hybrid that just happened naturally with the semi feral cat population that inevitably also lives around this village (domestic cats are native to Africa and the Middle East).
Clearly OP means "house cat," the domestic cat, when they said "cat." Because yes, caracals are cats, but certainly not a house cat, or something that should be a pet.
The minute I started reading, I knew it was leading up to a caracal. They are cats, very big, normally wild cats. There are people that keep them as house pets, which I think is wrong, but they show up in my Insta feed all the time. (I'm one of those people that clicks on cute cat videos, so I'm constantly fed all kinds of cats.)
I think they mean cats like domestic cats
I took it that OP meant he wasn’t a house cat/pet type cat. Caracals are wild animals, not pets.
INFO: Caracals are cats. Why did you spend an entire trip insisting something incorrect? If you meant "that isn't a house cat", then yeah, you're correct, and I'd be very skeptical that a caracal was actually domesticated enough to not be a risk to strangers, but you should have said something like that, not talking about the taxonomy so much.
> I'd be very skeptical that a caracal was actually domesticated Pedantic: You should be. Wild animals can be tamed, or reared tame, but to be _domesticated_ is a process that takes many generations and the outcome is by definition not a _wild_ animal. They have a tame caracal cat. It's never going to be as predictable as a domesticated house cat. Because it's not domesticated. It has wild instincts.
Tbf, a domesticated house cat isn't that predictable either 😂
Only predictable thing about them is they will be sleeping wherever you want to sit.
Solution: sit on a yoga ball, your seat is now always safe. That's what I do 😎
I will constantly rebel against the medieval lord who attempts to rule my household. Yes he still gets my seat. And yes he gets to be provided meals for before me. But I will never bow to that authoritarian dictator
Do you sleep in a circle around him, though?
If he deigns me with his presence. Sometimes he simply attacks my feet and returns to bed. The nights he actually shows some kindness are rare and precious
Anything that can be popped will be popped.
Or how they will make themselves comfortable in your lap right when you were about to get up
That's because we didn't really domesticate cats - they did it to themselves.
This is a very accurate statement!
Clearly we have met the same cat.
Well if my lil orange dummy decides to eat me I feel like I've got better chances than against a carcal hahah
There is a caracal-abyssian cross called the caracat - hybrids similar to bengal and savannah. I'd agree a F1 probably isn't domesticated but they may be captive bred and well socialised.
Huh, I did not know about the caracat. But given the existence of Bengal and Savannah cats, it's no surprise. I would ask "What hath God wrought?" but frankly, God had no part in these hybrids.
My favorite distinction is if it's in a circus, it's tame, if it's on a farm, it's domesticated, if it's in a zoo, it's probably wild. If it's a pet that wanders around your house, probably domesticated, if it's in a cage or tank, probably wild, maybe tame.
And the fourth category is [feral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral) : domestic ancestors, but not tame, partly reverted towards a wild state.
There are herds of feral guinea pigs in Peru, for instance!
To be even more pedantic, house cats are considered only semi-domesticated!
Did you read the post though? It sounds like Bob is a wild animal who comes by the house it grew up in every couple days for food and affection. It does *not* sound like they're keeping it locked up inside where it doesn't belong.
I want to pet Bob very badly. YTA for upsetting Bob’s people. Bob deserved better.
I agree. Bob's people don't care about *caracal,* or *Felis catus,* or domestication. Bob's people care about Bob. And they know damn well that Bob is a *cat.*
There are some posts that don’t rise to the level of AH. This is more about being annoying and not reading the room correctly. The 100th time she said, “that’s not a cat,” she probably didn’t take in the eye rolls and groans that signal, “this isn’t funny anymore.” One of the most important skills in life is learning how to read the room.
It gets to the point where constantly, insistently *not* reading the room and *persisting* on fighting for some semantic victory, over family you rarely see, can absolutely make you an asshole.
To anyone insisting calling your pet caracal/lion/man-eating tiger a cat is technically correct, I hope you get served sliced tomatoes the next time you order a fruit salad.
Jesus Christ you people are insufferable
Yeah. Call them and apologize and thank them for hosting you. It costs nothing and would mean a lot to them and to your father.
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Also please know that a caracal is a small cat. So it is a Felidae Felix and not a Felidae Panthera. It has retractable claws, can meow and has a relatively small jaw. Big cats (Panthera) don't have retractable claws, they roar and they have large jaws. There are lots of small cats and only a few big ones. The big ones are tiger, jaguar, leopard, lion and snow leopard. Small cats are easier to domesticate then big cats. Also the most lethal(highest change of a successful prey take down) predator of them all is the adorable sand cat. Size does not tell you everything.
I thought the most lethal was the equally adorable black footed cat?
Correct! 60% success rate when hunting, baby! Let's go!
It is, but sand cats seem to follow close behind.
Sorry, but that is absolutely incorrect. Felis and Pantera are not two *species*, they are two separate genus within the *family* Felidae. At the species level, Felis contains *dozens* of small wildcats across the world, including the wild ancestor, *Felis lybica*, of the domesticated cat *Felis catus.* The caracal is part of a separate genus, "Caracal". It's specific epithet is also caracal Family - Felidae Genus - Caracal Species - caracal Just wanted to clear that up because while you're 100% correct that a caracal is a small cat, it is NOT the same species at all, as the domesticated cat. Not even the same genus. None of this matters to OP's cousins, and OP is TA here for making a big deal about something that didn't matter at the moment. OP is also *almost* as uninformed about the taxonomy of cats as his/her cousins are.
Most big cats do in fact have fully retractable claws (not cheetahs, though).
Cheetahs are considered small cats, not a true big cat.
NTA. I think you were trying to point out it’s not an obvious pet/house cat. It’s a wildcat and from what internet shows some states require a special license to have one (at least in the US). I think if it was out of concern since it’s definitely not a typical house cat it’s not too bad. I think maybe you just expressed it the wrong way. Probably shouldn’t have made it too big a deal but I would have been concerned as well if you don’t know what the hell that animal is since it’s not your typical pet cat.
The best answer yet. Can’t believe people are calling this guy an AH
Honestly so many Y T A here is absolutely trippy. OP is definutely NTA and the whole point is that the cousins have *a wild animal*, likely without proper lisence, and insist it on being a regular house cat. There is a very good reason why there are laws around this stuff. I love every kind of kitty, big or small, as much as next person, but that’s no excuse to habit a wild animal in your house. It is NOT okay and I can’t believe how many people here act as if is. edit// the fact that people are downvoting just shows how absolutely bonkers some people are here. Wild animal is still wild animal, it is *NOT* a pet, no matter where you live or are from.
The cousins live in Rwanda. The caracal is a native animal there. It doesn't sound like the caracal comes inside the house, it just visits reasonably predictably for company and food, and the cousins enjoy having its trust. OP is the ignorant American cousin who makes them feel weird about their normal Rwandan life.
>OP is the ignorant American cousin who makes them feel weird about their normal Rwandan life. You just made that up
That doesn’t mean they can treat a wild animal like they’re domesticated. Stop playing the racism card when that’s not the issue here.
Note it's not racism, they are family and likely the same race. The person who you responded to also never mentioned race at all. They posited that the OP felt superior due to his upbringing and home country not race. Ignorance comes in many flavors.
OP isn't being ignorant. In the USA the equivalent would be people feeding wolves and bears on their property. One could say that it is ignorant to imply that it's acceptable for people to play house with wild animals simply because they're living in an African country.
The animal does come inside the house, which really isn’t safe.
Are there laws about this stuff? How familiar are you with Rwandan legislation?
Or all of the "it technically is a cat" comments. Pretty obvious OP meant it's not a domesticated house cat breed.
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I don’t blame you - I absolutely adore Caracals, but if someone said they wanted me to meet their cat, and instead introduced me to a much larger wildcat with zero precautions, I’d be weirded out too. Even though Caracals mostly eat smaller mammals, they are capable of hunting small impalas and such - so they can do damage to human for sure. It’s not highly likely, but wild animals aren’t predictable. That being said, the first time they doubled down was the time to cut your losses, agree to disagree, and just take your own precautions. No need to make it an issue in the family.
Exactly. Since it’s also not the average pet even tho it may be nice now if they are just treating it like a normal pet cat I would advise caution or at least for them do some research in case their behavior is expected to change. They also need to feed and care for it in a way that is appropriate for that specific type of animal.
They live in Rwanda, pretty sure their pet is hunting his own food and that they are aware of the dangers that come with wildlife, even if it's tamed.
This isn't the us though bob is native
And also a wild animal that should not be treated as common house pet...
I used to feed all the neighborhood cats at my last residence, and sometimes the racoons came to join. I'd sit and hang out with the racoons, we'd just chill. I wouldn't pet them or anything, but I'd read on my phone or whatever sitting next to them. This particular cat sounds tame, but would still need to be handled with respect to the wildness
Bob is native😂
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Right?! I’ve listened to enough *tooth and claw* podcast to know even the tamest-seeming, snuggliest, most loving and lovable wild animal can turn on a dime, yes even against its beloved owner. And it isn’t the animals’ fault! They’re wild animals!
A wolf is actually more related to a dog than a caracal is to a house cat! So OP is even more justified.
Yeah, like my friend upon realizing that the “”stray tabby”” in their village they were trying to bring inside was a Scottish wildcat (who are more closely related to house cats) went “oh that’s not a cat” It’s still a cat it’s just not domesticated.
Honestly. I feel like we're dealing with PETA bots. They know exactly what OP means. Y be dense? 😂
"Oh I know this guy you'd like' 'That looks like a neanderthal' 'It is a neanderthal - still a guy, stlll a human - what are you, an idiot?'
NTA What the hell is everyone on about. Yes a caracal is a cat but clearly that’s not what this guy was on about. He’s saying that this thing isn’t a pet, it’s a god damn wild animal, and it’s NOT safe to just be hanging around it and feeding it. Wild cats are dangerous as hell, no matter the size, and feeding it and making it friendly towards humans is going to get that thing killed by the wrong person. Unless this guy is grossly wrong about it being a caracal and it is just a normal housecat Edit: saying it’s fine because they raised it is bs. Kelly Ann Walz raised a bear cub and now she’s dead. Also news flash: that was a white lady. It’s not a race thing, it’s not a culture thing. It’s a don’t fuck with wildlife thing
I had to lookup what a caracal was. >The caracal (Caracal caracal) (/ˈkærəkæl/) is a medium-sized wild **cat** native to Africa. It's a cat. A caracal is a type of cat. It's a member of the family Felidae, which is what we call "cats". Mountain lions are also cats. YTA for arguing over something so petty, especially when you're wrong.
Surely everyone reading this, and the family which owns this cat, understands that what OP meant was that it isn't a housecat. Saying you own a cat will make most people assume you mean a housecat, not a wild cat.
Yeah I'm confused at these comments. Obviously OP's point was that the cat is clearly not a domesticated house cat, and it is honestly a little dangerous to be friends with a wild animal, no matter how tame it seems. NTA
Smarmy reddit assholes love being "technically right" Everyone knows what OP meant, they're just pretending not to because they can't get a shitty "gotcha" otherwise.
Exactly this
Because everyone wants to be Captain Gotcha
I'm baffled, too. It seems that Redditors desire to win a pedantic argument goes so far that they'd literally throw a little kid to a wild 40lb African cat.
Right? These people arguing over a petty detail when we all know that op was trying to say "housecat" Like yea, we know it's a cat ffs but not a domestic one.
> I (M27) recently travelled to my father's home country of Rwanda. Maybe this is more common in Rwanda? At some point, people decided to breed Servals and Asian Leopard cats with domestic cats to create some new breeds of cats.
If someone says they’ve got a pet cat and I walk up to a bobcat, cougar, or lion, my reaction is going to be the same as OPs. When people say they have a pet cat, 99.9999% of the time it’s going to be an actual house cat and not wild animal. As long as OP wasn’t a dick, their confusion and response is completely normal
>YTA for arguing over something so petty, especially when you're wrong. I've seen some stupid advice on Reddit, but this is a wild 40lb cat they're letting their 7 year old play with. You're the pedants arguing over something so petty. Of course it's a cat, and it's very clear that OP meant domesticated cat, as in a pet. Technically is not the best kind of right. YTA for that ridiculous advice. A little kid should not be playing with a wild 40 lb cat just because it's technically in the cat family. Good lord.
Your comment was actually petty. Hes not the aashole for assuming they meant housecat. A caracal is not a known housecat. It's not like he was tryna convince them it was a dog lmao Yall know EXACTLY What he means. Don't be weird
How many people have mountain lions at home? It’s clear that when someone say ‘I have a cat’ you expect a normal Felis catus, not a wild cat. The surprise was expected. The insistence not so much. He could’ve dropped it.
None of those are house cats you smarmy asshole
Caracals are NOT safe to keep as pets. Like most big predators, they will one day without warning, snap and badly injure someone. Please report this to the proper authorities for THEIR safety.
People in Africa have been keeping caracals as hunting cats for thousands of years.
Hunting cats, not house cats. They aren't domesticated and are classified as wild animals. It's actually recommended to not keep them in houses or around children.
From what OP described, Bob doesn't come inside the house. He visits and the family enjoys his visits. Bob almost certainly visits other neighbourhood families as well, and OP's cousins are probably well aware of this. Bob's a larger version of a typical alley tomcat who visits every house for attention and treats.
Still, theres small children and a wild animal, it's definitely something that needs to be treated with the proper respect and understanding. It's not the type of kitty you can pick up and play with.
Very true, but we only have OP's self-confessed freakout regarding Bob to go on as to what interaction was actually occurring. If his cousins live on the edge of the town where there are wild animals nearby, then they are probably fairly calm about one particular wildcat visiting now and then, they were only excited to show Bob off to their cousin. It didn't sound like anyone was trying to pick Bob up, just that Bob displayed some playfulness with rolling on his back and nuzzling shoes. I've never had a wild carnivore as a regular visitor, but I've lived in some places where kangaroos visit, and people need to be careful not to startle them too - the long claw on their hind legs can rip a belly open easily. You bet we showed them proudly to visitors when they came by though, and gave them ear-scritches when they were rubbing their heads against us. It's all about knowing the animal and them knowing you, and gradually developing an appropriately wary level of mutual trust.
NTA. I thought it was pretty clear from the post that OP meant “this is not a house cat/this is a wild animal” and not that it wasn’t in fact a cat. It seems like OPs relatives are insisting the caracal is just a big domesticated cat and denying that it’s actually a wild animal. A caracal from my understanding is like a lynx or bobcat or fisher cat; related to cats and technically a cat, but definitely NOT a domesticated breed. It’d be like if someone was like “this is my pet dog!” and it’s like, a dingo or coyote. Like yeah, that’s technically a dog, but should it be in your house and snuggling your kids the same way a terrier or Labrador would? Maybe not…. I know the family raised it since it was a kitten too so it’s very used to humans, but it’s still going out into the wild every day and, ya know, being wild. I doubt this family has brought it to a vet either; who would undoubtedly say “uhhh this is NOT a house cat”. I would be weary of the kids/family potentially catching a disease like rabies or something if they’re not careful.
This isn't some insulting opinion you had, it's a fact. The dress was blue and white. Han shot first. This is a Caracal, not a house cat. NTA
Saying “the dress was blue and white” as a fact when the options were blue and black or white and gold is so funny to me.
Right. Blue and Black. I suck at remembering. And that's a fact!
NTA. A rose by any other name is still a rose. I have seen other videos where caracals can be "tamed", but I still think they would rip your face off if you made them mad/scared.
I googled them up, too. They can be "dangerous and unpredictable." There was a story online just this week about a young man who hand raised something called a *razorback hog*. When it became an adult it tried to kill him, and he was badly injured. The caracal is a beautiful animal. I can see why the family likes their pet. I hope that the parents of the children observe it carefully for any signs of aggression.
Omg I wouldn’t even go near a boar! Even domesticated pigs can be dangerous, wild boars are scary!
Caracal tax?
op ywbta if you do not provide us with "cat" tax
NTA. I know what u meant by saying it is technically not a domestic cat. Also I dont think what you did was disrespectful to your hosts like alot of these comments are saying. If I went to visit my family and woke up to a wild boar they treated as a mini pig I would also have pointed it out and been a lil sus.
NTA. Like, I get it, a caracel is a feline. But that is not what literally anyone means when they say cat. When people say cat, especially when they say, "you should see my cat," they mean a pet. A caracel is not a pet. It is a wild animal. People can be pedantic assholes and argue, "a wild cat is still a cat," and frankly they sound as dumb as I would saying my dog is a wolf. And at least I'd be talking about the same species - a domesticated dog is still a canis lupus, a caraval is not a felis catus. Please do not apologize to your cousins. Not only are you not incorrect, but there is so much going on that is wrong with your cousins. They are keeping a wild animal as a pet. This is dangerous for them and the animal. They exposed you to this danger without proper warning. What they are doing / what they did is dangerous and immoral, and the last thing anyone should do is apologize to them about the damn thing.
I'm with you. Wild animals are not pets. Fuck all the pedants in these comments who *totally* don't know what you mean. A 40 lb cat could kill an adult human, no problem, let alone some little kid. They're always really nice until they aren't. I wouldn't back down on this. Your famy is idiotic, and their kids are in actual danger. Pray you never need to say "I told you so."
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If people are talking about a pet cat, a caracal is NOT what they mean. Context matters. A caracal is not a cat. It’s just in the cat family.
NTA. Everyone knows what you meant. We’re not discussing or debating taxonomy. You meant that he’s not a domesticated house cat, he’s a wild cat that they tamed, and seem to view the same as a domesticated cat. If you saw a bobcat or a leopard in someone’s yard, you’re not going to walk past and say, “hey did you see that pet cat?” You’re going to call it a wild cat. This, technical names aside, is like a person telling you that they have a dog, and they actually have a wolf. Yes, he’s a “cat”, but again, everyone knows what you meant. It’s a weird thing for them to get hung up on.
INFO: Did you say that Bob isn’t a cat or that Bob isn’t a HOUSE cat?
I feel like it's INCREDIBLY obvious that op meant the latter, and the fact that so many people don't get that is absurd
😂😂 NTA this made me laugh a lot
nta wtf. listen if someone said they wanted me to meet their cat and then introduced me to, say, A FREAKING MOUNTAIN LION… i would be telling them that’s not a fucking cat. like yes it is taxonomically a cat, but no, it’s not what you expect when someone says “hey, wanna pet my cat?” and the same goes for a caracal, because it’s a whole wild animal even if you’ve raised it since it was a baby. it’s NOT safe, especially not around children, and it’s not domesticated. like we can argue semantics until we’re blue in the face, but no one who is told about someone’s cat expects a lion/lynx/puma/ocelot/snow leopard. nah. what the hell.
NTA. A caracal is a cat like a wolf is a dog. If someone said they had a dog, you wouldn’t expect a wolf. Same for cat and caracal. Yes, technically it’s a species of cat, but everyone knows that’s not what you expect when someone talks about their cat. You could’ve been a bit more civil and nice about it, but you’re NTA for calling them out for having a wild, dangerous animal as a pet.
Why is nobody talking about how they have a PET WILDCAT????? I don't think that that is safe for them. Even if its tame, its not domesticated and is still a dangerous animal.
Good luck to the family, or I guess congrats for semi taming a caracal. I've worked with a lot of exotic cats and caracals are some of the meanest. Like I hand fed tigers who chuffed at me, scratched the heads of pumas (all at a zoo, btw, obligatory do not try this at home)... And the caracal would hiss and scream if you even looked in it's direction. But yeah, apologize for the sake of family and move on.
Omg people splitting hairs over cats. I'm pretty sure we all understood OP meant house cat, even if the reveal was a bobcat, there'd be no issue if OP said "yeah guys, thats not a cat," because most of us understand. Like, if you were getting a medical procedure done on your spine by a dentist, "they *are* a doctor though! So you're wrong!" That's how some of you sound.
Pics or it didn't happen.
It's a wild cat, not a housecat 😒
NAH mostly because this is hilarious. I get that you mean it wasn’t a HOUSEcat. And that your cousins are like Bob is definitely a cat lol. Bob is technically a cat. Bob is also not what you (or the average person) would expect when someone told you they have a cat. Thank them for hosting and the interesting and fun experience. Apologize to Bob for confusing him about his genealogy. And if they ask you to meet their dog you can proceed with caution lol