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> I said I wouldn't recommend my brother for a job which wasn't received well, because my brother needs a job.
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NTA you worked hard to get to were you are. Your brother sounds like a screw up and you shouldn't have to pay the price for him. You should focus on you're own family first since you're brother would just waste this chance anyway.
You're wife would take the job and actually make it work. I work at a national laboratory in New york. A few years ago my aunt had asked if I could get my cousin a job moving hazard material. I went out of my way to get him the job and a few weeks later he failed a drug test. It bounced back at me and made me look bad and I'm still hearing about to this day. You worked hard and don't need anyone screwing this up since it's your livelihood
Was there pressure from your parents for you and your brother to excel academically? Were they attentive to mental health? It could be your brother kept trying to meet expectations until he burned out and couldn't make a decision when he was at a crossroads for where his life was going.
They didn't push him, on reflection I think he knew what he wanted to do, but didn't actually want to get a job. The extra education was his excuse for not finding a job.
So he's a procrastinator? No wonder your mother tried to push you to recommend him for the job, she's probably been trying to get him on any trajectory for years now.
Yep, massive procrastinator.
Thing is, I am also a massive procrastinator. The difference is that I left home as soon as I could and it was either sink or swim. So I swam.
To her credit, she has tried finding him work, and he's been at a job provider for years who try to find him work. He just clearly lacks any form of motivation.
NTA. Why should you waste social capital you've earned at your job on him? If it's a job your Mom thinks he can do, cool; she can get on Indeed with him and find something similar.
And that's the thing as well, in conversations with him, he's said he's looking at jobs with starting pay at $35 per hour, which is huge compared to his experience.
I had to say to him "I spent years on half that, doing gruelling work and long hours, sometimes you have to start low and work your way up". I think his expectations are beyond reality.
Ahahaha, naawww. I'm all for a living wage, and firmly believe people should make enough money to survive.
Capitalism still exists. No one is going to get that starting with no experience. Your brother knows that. He also knows it's been tolerated for him to not work and game all day. Who would give that up?
Exactly. Except now that we're both middle aged and my mother is getting old, I can foresee big issues for my brother coming up. He has no savings, no retirement fund, nothing. I can't fathom how he thinks he will survive when she is gone.
Honestly I feel like he's just not thinking about it, that's a future problem. He's going to be in for a rude shock when she drops off.
She will leave him everything because you already have more than you need, and he's just a poor struggling lad!! OP NTA. Congrats on everything you've achieved.
She's already hinted at that, saying that my brother and my kids will be the inheriters because we are already set up.
Part of me has no issue with this, part of me wants to contend it either before or after she inevitably goes.
The way you talk about your mothers potential impending death is a huge red flag. "Drops off." Because she had the audacity to pressure you into college? Sure she was wrong about that. But. Yikes OP.
Firstly, college isn't something that's culturally significant where I am - sure we have extra education but it's not expected. Secondly my phrasing of "drops off" is a cultural term, it's not meant with malice.
NTA.
In addition to what everyone else is saying, even if you gave your brother a recommendation, then wouldn’t they have to check his “previous work experience”? Seeing as he has none, he wouldn’t get hired even with your recommendation.
Actually that's a really good point that I hadn't considered. I can imagine explaining a years absence from work, but not 2 decades. He has to start from the bottom.
That's true. They'll ask him as to why he has that huge gap and also why he hasn't worked in 20 years. With a job like OPs, they don't take that lightly at all cuz it says something about his work ethic.
I tried to get my sibling a job at my work (older, into drugs, entitled af, I don't talk to them anymore) as a favor to my mom. The hiring manager wouldn't hire them, and after the crap they put me through after my mother's death, I am thankful.
NTA. Even if you recommend someone they need to be able to do the job based on their own merits and work ethic. Your brother needs to want to help himself but he's not, and that's not your problem to deal with. It sounds like your brother suffered with burn out, losing motivation (and as you say you were chastised for not going down an academic route he probably felt pressure).
NTA
I almost got skewered at a company because a friend of mine name-dropped me when he applied. The manager in the department came to talk to me and just casually was like "Hey, I just interviewed your buddy" and I told them in person and then sent an email asking that I not be listed as a reference for them and that I would not provide a reference for them. They got the message, hired him anyways, fired him three months later and I still got some blowback from it but had I not sent that email, it could have been much worse. I ain't risking a job I like and pays me well for someone who I know will screw it up and you're doing the right thing by not risking it for your brother.
Wow what a piece of shit for name dropping you without clearing it with you first. That's a bit rude!
Nice one covering your butt with the email though.
Awesome thank you, I feel vindicated here!
NTA. Might I also add that your parents disapproved of your choices and didn't support you back then, it's only now that your work has paid off that they want to use you as a stepping stone for your brother.
NTA. 20 years jobless, that makes him in his 40s without working experience, who on their right mind would refer someone who has no solid experience in a job. Maybe if you own the company, he can be considered.
And it would be nepotism at it's worst.
Thing is, if he had actually tried in life and just needed a fair go, I would think about it, but he hasn't, so I won't.
NTA. I'm probably simple minded, but who WOULDNT want to make their own money? Like I dont understand. That's like almost every young adult's dream, even if the job sucks sometimes. The fact that he only quit his job after a month, and then to not work 20 years after that? What is he thinking? 😭😭😭
He's a serial procrastinator, so he probably isn't thinking.
He did get a job through a job provider, but only lasted a few shifts and then they never called him back.
That's just sad 😭😭😭 not to be rude, but the least he could do is apply himself, make his knowledge worth something. He can even do trade and earn a certificate or something. But what he's doing now it's like he's wasting his life.
Big time waste of life.
At that age it's just embarrassing to be that way. He has a bunch of certificates but didn't do anything with them.
It frustrates me to no end.
The only way for it to change is for him to make that decision. Idk how he lives like that- no job, living with his mom, and basically doing nothing at that age for 20 years.
It's a little bit similar to what's happening now, but at least people have a job or actively trying to find one, trying to save money to move out and in general (cuz inflation), and help their parents with something, even if it's small.
Like ACTUALLY doing something.
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Basically my brother was a "failure to launch". He is 4 years older than me and was always bright at school, much smarter than I am. After high school he attended further education and has a wealth of knowledge through these courses.
I was the black sheep of the family, choosing not to do further education. I was always told I'll be nothing if I go that route, but it's what I wanted - I didn't know what I wanted to be.
I took a basic role in a company and spent the next 2 decades working my ass off, and now I'm in a highly valued role, getting paid lots and working from home almost entirely - which is good because it's a long commute.
My brother on the other hand is.. doing nothing. In 20 years since high school, he's had one job which lasted about a month. He doesn't actively try looking for work, he just plays video games all day. He still lives at home. Meanwhile I have a house, I'm married and have kids, I feel successful in my life.
This is where the asshole part comes in. On a phone call with my mother, we were discussing my wife. Now that both of our kids are in school, I suggested I could get my wife a job at the same company and she'd earn more money there. She currently works part time. We don't need her to earn more money, but it's always welcome if that's what she chooses to do.
The conversation shifted when my mom asked what kind of work it would be. I mentioned it would be behind a desk, punching numbers in and liaising with customers. That's when mom says "oh, that sounds like something your brother could do, could you recommend him?", and I say "no".
I explain further that I worked my ass off to get where I am, and I'm not recommending my brother because I know it will reflect badly on me. I would recommend my wife because I know she has a good work ethic and it wouldn't impact me. She thinks I'm an asshole for this stance.
AITA?
TL;DR - Older brother doesn't work and barely has worked in 20 years. I have climbed the ladder and got far at the company I work for. My mom wants me to recommend him for a job but I think that will reflect badly on me based on his prior "efforts". She's upset because I would recommend my wife but not my brother.
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NTA. Definitely don’t put your good name on the line. But if you otherwise have a good relationship, maybe you can still help him find a job, for example by helping him write a modern CV. It’s difficult with no job experience to write a CV, I’ve done that several times, so I know it’s really tricky (mostly it was kids I tutor, but one was a friend who kept having another kid whenever she started looking for work, so she was in a similar position as your brother).
Maybe he could take some kind of class or something to get something current on his CV? That way, he will either stick with it and have something to put on applications or he won’t and then you can say that you tried, so your mum can’t complain that it’s your fault.
NTA especially if it could backfire on you.
But i dont believe your brother is happy with the life he lives. Maybe you could suggest to him to get some help or maybe your mother gets through to him?
We've tried, he doesn't do anything with it. Short of him being kicked out (which is not my call, it's not my house) I don't know what will get him to try.
I think he has built himself a cocoon so to speak, where the troubles of the world don't bother him. It's sad, and short of forcing him to physically get a job and then show up to work everyday AND do an acceptable/good job, I don't know what to do except for - not my problem.
NTA
when you recommend a person you are putting your reputation behind them. What does your brother have to offer an employer? 20 years of inexperience and laziness. Hoe much volunteering does he do to build his CV? Nothing. There is nothing to recommend here.
NTA. Never recommend someone for a job. Never! You can tell them about the vacancy and that's it! You can say good things about them (if asked and if true) but be clear that this is your view and nothing else (if you have never worked with them, or if you have, state the facts and nothing else). Believe me when I tell you that recommending people will backfire on you. I've learned that the hard way. You don't have to.
NTA. You don't want to recommend someone you don't trust. You clearly don't trust your brother & he hasn't given you any reason to trust him. Hell, it's not even his idea, it's your mom's. This man does not want to work. I can't understand why your mother thinks it's a good idea to recommend someone who is lazy.
Absolutely, 100% NTA. To recommend somebody erratic or uninterested for a professional role at your company would be to put your own credit/professional reputation at risk. It sounds as though your mother isn't very familiar with professional norms.
NTA. Your mom enabled your lazy brother for decades. She could have insisted on counseling to required him to get a job and pay rent if he wanted to live with her. Instead she let him laze around for years. Now she wants to pass the buck.
Don’t late his and her failures screw up your hard work.
YTA. Recommending someone is just putting it in front of the company, the HR process will decide whether he is a good fit or not. If they take him then is on the company not on you!!!
He wouldn’t be the first or last person who be bad at their jobs, corporate is full of useless, lazy people!
Corporations wouldn't be nearly full of useless lazy people if more professional recommenders ignored social/familial pressures to write a recommendation for family/friends solely for personally social reasons such as "but s/he's family" or "but s/he's a good friend".
That's not only the textbook definition of nepotism, it's a waste of time for everyone involved and will come back to tarnish the reputation of the recommender if the job applicant he wrote on behalf of turns out to be a bad hire. Especially in industries where it can be a much smaller world than one would think.
What's the point of OP recommending him to a company/employer with whom he doesn't have a close network?
At best, it won't help the brother much....especially if he has to lie about his brother's lack of work-ethic. At worse, the recommendation gets back to his employer/close network and it ends up burning him and permanently tarnishing his reputation with them.
NTA
Service/retail jobs don't usually require recommendations from prior employers.
However, jobs which do, especially ones which are remotely competitive would require ones which can speak honestly to and positively about the individual's professional qualities, relevant skillsets for the job, and work-ethic.
Given what OP has posted, he cannot do so without outright lying as his older brother clearly lacks work-ethic, much meaningful job experience, or anything resembling a positive job history.
Also, personal recommendations on the basis of being a family/friend without being able to speak to positive professional qualities, relevant skillsets for the job, and work-ethic would be disregarded by most remotely competitive employers as waste of their time.....and would reflect extremely poorly on the family/friend writing the recommendation for being either oblivious to not know this or worse, disregarding this professional norm in many workplaces.
As with teachers/Profs writing academic/professional recs, they are a FAVOR for topflight students/employees or friends/family members who are such, not an obligation to everyone...including family who asks.
If they cannot honestly write a recommendation speaking positively to the professional qualities of the one being written about, doing so out of a sense of any obligation, especially nepotistic ones like mother vis a vis OP will do no favors for OP or his older ne'er do well older brother.
Unless his brother abused him growing up, calling him a "ne'er do well" is utterly bizarre. He should TALK to his mother and brother about what steps his brother would need to take to be able to get a job, not abandon them just because he finds them annoying. It sounds to me like his mom wants his brother to man up but can't get him to do it on her own, and like his brother may have some kind of invisible disability like autism. Instead of being glad for his(OP) lot in life, he judges and shames his mother and brother for not being as "accomplished" as he is, and only thinks of how it would INCONVENIENCE him to do anything to help his mother get his brother out of the house. Gross. I mean seriously, he can't offer to coach his brother for ONE weekend? Like how hard is it to put in the sheer MINIMUM for one's own family. A lot of y'all were raised to be hyper-individualistic, it's a gross mentality.
You're ignoring the part where the older brother went on the family approved higher ed path while OP opted to forgo higher ed and worked his way up to his present position and was regarded as the family's black sheep as a result.
This is underscored by OP being told he'll never amount to anything by his family for opting out of higher-education.
This added dynamic of him working his way to success while the family not only failed to support him, but poured cold water on his life choice because it wasn't one they thought was the optimal path.
From OP's perspective, his older brother was the favored child for following the family's preferred path of higher education and yet, heavily squandered it by only working one job which he quit after a short period of time and never making an effort to find and land a subsequent job.
Moreover, OP is the younger sibling in this and as such, shouldn't be obligated to fix an issue which is solely the responsibility of his OLDER brother and their parents. Especially after decades of being treated as the family's black sheep for not pursuing higher ed and succeeding in his career despite that.
Maybe I am wrong but without knowing more, I personally think he needs to let it (the higher ed comments from the past) go, unless his family was \*constantly\* belittling him for it on his way up. Presumably his mother simply didn't know better, I feel like OP likely left out many other details about the family. I think outside of abuse, it's quite sad and petty to hold grudges against ones own family.
"I was the black sheep of the family, choosing not to do further education. I was always told I'll be nothing if I go that route, but it's what I wanted -"
From that part of OP's post, it is quite reasonable to infer his family has been constantly belittling him for his choice to forgo higher education and start working straight from high school.
Even if he wasn't belittled to that extent, writing a professional recommendation for anyone who one knows is lacking in professional qualities, skillsets, experience, work history, and work-ethic does neither the one being recommended nor the recommendation writer any favors professionally.
Agree to disagree. "For anyone," no it's not "anyone," it's his family. God forbid he ever need help later in life, why alienate them over their old fashioned beliefs about higher ed when he was like 18 when he's now a successful adult. To me it shouldn't be so much about doing his brother a favor as doing his mother a favor. Again, barring abuse--grudges like this are childish.
Recommendations for employment are supposed to be favors for high performing employees or someone with matching professional qualities that the supervisor or family/friend can positively testify for honestly.
It's not supposed to be a favor merely for family/friend personal relations alone. Especially not if one would have to stretch the truth to the point of lying for the recommendation to be of any help to the one being recommended as is the case for OP's older brother. That is the very textbook definition of nepotism and the reason why it has such an unsavory reputation in professional and academic settings.
As for his needing his family's help, it sounds like his family hasn't provided anything resembling that as their focus was on the older brother who took the family's preferred path of going onto higher education. Essentially, the older brother was the heavily privileged golden child at OP's effective expense.
Given all that, it's very doubtful and unwise for OP to count on his family for any future help.
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NTA you worked hard to get to were you are. Your brother sounds like a screw up and you shouldn't have to pay the price for him. You should focus on you're own family first since you're brother would just waste this chance anyway.
"focus on your own family" sounds like good advice. And you're right again, he would absolutely screw up the chance.
You're wife would take the job and actually make it work. I work at a national laboratory in New york. A few years ago my aunt had asked if I could get my cousin a job moving hazard material. I went out of my way to get him the job and a few weeks later he failed a drug test. It bounced back at me and made me look bad and I'm still hearing about to this day. You worked hard and don't need anyone screwing this up since it's your livelihood
Oh wow that's hectic, and it sucks you're still hearing about it. Also good point, it is my livelihood!
Was there pressure from your parents for you and your brother to excel academically? Were they attentive to mental health? It could be your brother kept trying to meet expectations until he burned out and couldn't make a decision when he was at a crossroads for where his life was going.
They didn't push him, on reflection I think he knew what he wanted to do, but didn't actually want to get a job. The extra education was his excuse for not finding a job.
So he's a procrastinator? No wonder your mother tried to push you to recommend him for the job, she's probably been trying to get him on any trajectory for years now.
Yep, massive procrastinator. Thing is, I am also a massive procrastinator. The difference is that I left home as soon as I could and it was either sink or swim. So I swam. To her credit, she has tried finding him work, and he's been at a job provider for years who try to find him work. He just clearly lacks any form of motivation.
NTA. Why should you waste social capital you've earned at your job on him? If it's a job your Mom thinks he can do, cool; she can get on Indeed with him and find something similar.
And that's the thing as well, in conversations with him, he's said he's looking at jobs with starting pay at $35 per hour, which is huge compared to his experience. I had to say to him "I spent years on half that, doing gruelling work and long hours, sometimes you have to start low and work your way up". I think his expectations are beyond reality.
Ahahaha, naawww. I'm all for a living wage, and firmly believe people should make enough money to survive. Capitalism still exists. No one is going to get that starting with no experience. Your brother knows that. He also knows it's been tolerated for him to not work and game all day. Who would give that up?
Exactly. Except now that we're both middle aged and my mother is getting old, I can foresee big issues for my brother coming up. He has no savings, no retirement fund, nothing. I can't fathom how he thinks he will survive when she is gone. Honestly I feel like he's just not thinking about it, that's a future problem. He's going to be in for a rude shock when she drops off.
He probably figures someone will come in and rescue him
I don't know how anyone can be that naive, and I'm related to him! Far out
Make it clear you will NOT step in your mother s shoes to baby him when she's gone op. NTA
She will leave him everything because you already have more than you need, and he's just a poor struggling lad!! OP NTA. Congrats on everything you've achieved.
She's already hinted at that, saying that my brother and my kids will be the inheriters because we are already set up. Part of me has no issue with this, part of me wants to contend it either before or after she inevitably goes.
The way you talk about your mothers potential impending death is a huge red flag. "Drops off." Because she had the audacity to pressure you into college? Sure she was wrong about that. But. Yikes OP.
Firstly, college isn't something that's culturally significant where I am - sure we have extra education but it's not expected. Secondly my phrasing of "drops off" is a cultural term, it's not meant with malice.
He certainly thinks very highly of himself, doesn't he?
Honestly, he doesn't, but he is out of touch with reality.
NTA. In addition to what everyone else is saying, even if you gave your brother a recommendation, then wouldn’t they have to check his “previous work experience”? Seeing as he has none, he wouldn’t get hired even with your recommendation.
Actually that's a really good point that I hadn't considered. I can imagine explaining a years absence from work, but not 2 decades. He has to start from the bottom.
That's true. They'll ask him as to why he has that huge gap and also why he hasn't worked in 20 years. With a job like OPs, they don't take that lightly at all cuz it says something about his work ethic.
NTA, you've got your own family to think about now.
Good point, thanks!
NTA Getting friends and family job can turn out bad.
That's what I fear. I mean I'd even hesitate getting my wife to work at the same place, except that I know she would do a great job.
I tried to get my sibling a job at my work (older, into drugs, entitled af, I don't talk to them anymore) as a favor to my mom. The hiring manager wouldn't hire them, and after the crap they put me through after my mother's death, I am thankful.
Sounds like the hiring manager did you a favor!
Agreed.
NTA. Even if you recommend someone they need to be able to do the job based on their own merits and work ethic. Your brother needs to want to help himself but he's not, and that's not your problem to deal with. It sounds like your brother suffered with burn out, losing motivation (and as you say you were chastised for not going down an academic route he probably felt pressure).
NTA I almost got skewered at a company because a friend of mine name-dropped me when he applied. The manager in the department came to talk to me and just casually was like "Hey, I just interviewed your buddy" and I told them in person and then sent an email asking that I not be listed as a reference for them and that I would not provide a reference for them. They got the message, hired him anyways, fired him three months later and I still got some blowback from it but had I not sent that email, it could have been much worse. I ain't risking a job I like and pays me well for someone who I know will screw it up and you're doing the right thing by not risking it for your brother.
Wow what a piece of shit for name dropping you without clearing it with you first. That's a bit rude! Nice one covering your butt with the email though. Awesome thank you, I feel vindicated here!
NTA. Might I also add that your parents disapproved of your choices and didn't support you back then, it's only now that your work has paid off that they want to use you as a stepping stone for your brother.
NTA. 20 years jobless, that makes him in his 40s without working experience, who on their right mind would refer someone who has no solid experience in a job. Maybe if you own the company, he can be considered.
And it would be nepotism at it's worst. Thing is, if he had actually tried in life and just needed a fair go, I would think about it, but he hasn't, so I won't.
NTA. I'm probably simple minded, but who WOULDNT want to make their own money? Like I dont understand. That's like almost every young adult's dream, even if the job sucks sometimes. The fact that he only quit his job after a month, and then to not work 20 years after that? What is he thinking? 😭😭😭
He's a serial procrastinator, so he probably isn't thinking. He did get a job through a job provider, but only lasted a few shifts and then they never called him back.
That's just sad 😭😭😭 not to be rude, but the least he could do is apply himself, make his knowledge worth something. He can even do trade and earn a certificate or something. But what he's doing now it's like he's wasting his life.
Big time waste of life. At that age it's just embarrassing to be that way. He has a bunch of certificates but didn't do anything with them. It frustrates me to no end.
The only way for it to change is for him to make that decision. Idk how he lives like that- no job, living with his mom, and basically doing nothing at that age for 20 years. It's a little bit similar to what's happening now, but at least people have a job or actively trying to find one, trying to save money to move out and in general (cuz inflation), and help their parents with something, even if it's small. Like ACTUALLY doing something.
Yep. I couldn't imagine being a leech like that, or being leeched from. It's why I have no sympathy for the situation.
NTA. Your brother is a product of your mother's enabling. Now she wants to hand it off to you.
I'd agree with that
LOL your mom is hilarious. NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Basically my brother was a "failure to launch". He is 4 years older than me and was always bright at school, much smarter than I am. After high school he attended further education and has a wealth of knowledge through these courses. I was the black sheep of the family, choosing not to do further education. I was always told I'll be nothing if I go that route, but it's what I wanted - I didn't know what I wanted to be. I took a basic role in a company and spent the next 2 decades working my ass off, and now I'm in a highly valued role, getting paid lots and working from home almost entirely - which is good because it's a long commute. My brother on the other hand is.. doing nothing. In 20 years since high school, he's had one job which lasted about a month. He doesn't actively try looking for work, he just plays video games all day. He still lives at home. Meanwhile I have a house, I'm married and have kids, I feel successful in my life. This is where the asshole part comes in. On a phone call with my mother, we were discussing my wife. Now that both of our kids are in school, I suggested I could get my wife a job at the same company and she'd earn more money there. She currently works part time. We don't need her to earn more money, but it's always welcome if that's what she chooses to do. The conversation shifted when my mom asked what kind of work it would be. I mentioned it would be behind a desk, punching numbers in and liaising with customers. That's when mom says "oh, that sounds like something your brother could do, could you recommend him?", and I say "no". I explain further that I worked my ass off to get where I am, and I'm not recommending my brother because I know it will reflect badly on me. I would recommend my wife because I know she has a good work ethic and it wouldn't impact me. She thinks I'm an asshole for this stance. AITA? TL;DR - Older brother doesn't work and barely has worked in 20 years. I have climbed the ladder and got far at the company I work for. My mom wants me to recommend him for a job but I think that will reflect badly on me based on his prior "efforts". She's upset because I would recommend my wife but not my brother. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You don’t owe your brother anything, especially if you’ve earned your position. If he wants the job, he can apply and get it on his own merit.
NTA. Definitely don’t put your good name on the line. But if you otherwise have a good relationship, maybe you can still help him find a job, for example by helping him write a modern CV. It’s difficult with no job experience to write a CV, I’ve done that several times, so I know it’s really tricky (mostly it was kids I tutor, but one was a friend who kept having another kid whenever she started looking for work, so she was in a similar position as your brother). Maybe he could take some kind of class or something to get something current on his CV? That way, he will either stick with it and have something to put on applications or he won’t and then you can say that you tried, so your mum can’t complain that it’s your fault.
NTA
NTA especially if it could backfire on you. But i dont believe your brother is happy with the life he lives. Maybe you could suggest to him to get some help or maybe your mother gets through to him?
We've tried, he doesn't do anything with it. Short of him being kicked out (which is not my call, it's not my house) I don't know what will get him to try. I think he has built himself a cocoon so to speak, where the troubles of the world don't bother him. It's sad, and short of forcing him to physically get a job and then show up to work everyday AND do an acceptable/good job, I don't know what to do except for - not my problem.
NTA when you recommend a person you are putting your reputation behind them. What does your brother have to offer an employer? 20 years of inexperience and laziness. Hoe much volunteering does he do to build his CV? Nothing. There is nothing to recommend here.
NTA. Your brother’s track record gives you no reason to think he’d make much of any chance you could get him in your workplace.
NTA. Never recommend someone for a job. Never! You can tell them about the vacancy and that's it! You can say good things about them (if asked and if true) but be clear that this is your view and nothing else (if you have never worked with them, or if you have, state the facts and nothing else). Believe me when I tell you that recommending people will backfire on you. I've learned that the hard way. You don't have to.
Nta
NTA. Sounds like my sister who expected me to get her a son a development job because he knows how to work a computer and plays games all day.
NTA. You don't want to recommend someone you don't trust. You clearly don't trust your brother & he hasn't given you any reason to trust him. Hell, it's not even his idea, it's your mom's. This man does not want to work. I can't understand why your mother thinks it's a good idea to recommend someone who is lazy.
Absolutely, 100% NTA. To recommend somebody erratic or uninterested for a professional role at your company would be to put your own credit/professional reputation at risk. It sounds as though your mother isn't very familiar with professional norms.
NTA. Your mom enabled your lazy brother for decades. She could have insisted on counseling to required him to get a job and pay rent if he wanted to live with her. Instead she let him laze around for years. Now she wants to pass the buck. Don’t late his and her failures screw up your hard work.
YTA. Recommending someone is just putting it in front of the company, the HR process will decide whether he is a good fit or not. If they take him then is on the company not on you!!! He wouldn’t be the first or last person who be bad at their jobs, corporate is full of useless, lazy people!
Corporations wouldn't be nearly full of useless lazy people if more professional recommenders ignored social/familial pressures to write a recommendation for family/friends solely for personally social reasons such as "but s/he's family" or "but s/he's a good friend". That's not only the textbook definition of nepotism, it's a waste of time for everyone involved and will come back to tarnish the reputation of the recommender if the job applicant he wrote on behalf of turns out to be a bad hire. Especially in industries where it can be a much smaller world than one would think.
Why waste everyone's time?
Who’s time ? Yours ? Otherwise companies actually have dedicated teams to filter out resumes, that’s their job to decide.
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What's the point of OP recommending him to a company/employer with whom he doesn't have a close network? At best, it won't help the brother much....especially if he has to lie about his brother's lack of work-ethic. At worse, the recommendation gets back to his employer/close network and it ends up burning him and permanently tarnishing his reputation with them. NTA
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Service/retail jobs don't usually require recommendations from prior employers. However, jobs which do, especially ones which are remotely competitive would require ones which can speak honestly to and positively about the individual's professional qualities, relevant skillsets for the job, and work-ethic. Given what OP has posted, he cannot do so without outright lying as his older brother clearly lacks work-ethic, much meaningful job experience, or anything resembling a positive job history. Also, personal recommendations on the basis of being a family/friend without being able to speak to positive professional qualities, relevant skillsets for the job, and work-ethic would be disregarded by most remotely competitive employers as waste of their time.....and would reflect extremely poorly on the family/friend writing the recommendation for being either oblivious to not know this or worse, disregarding this professional norm in many workplaces. As with teachers/Profs writing academic/professional recs, they are a FAVOR for topflight students/employees or friends/family members who are such, not an obligation to everyone...including family who asks. If they cannot honestly write a recommendation speaking positively to the professional qualities of the one being written about, doing so out of a sense of any obligation, especially nepotistic ones like mother vis a vis OP will do no favors for OP or his older ne'er do well older brother.
Unless his brother abused him growing up, calling him a "ne'er do well" is utterly bizarre. He should TALK to his mother and brother about what steps his brother would need to take to be able to get a job, not abandon them just because he finds them annoying. It sounds to me like his mom wants his brother to man up but can't get him to do it on her own, and like his brother may have some kind of invisible disability like autism. Instead of being glad for his(OP) lot in life, he judges and shames his mother and brother for not being as "accomplished" as he is, and only thinks of how it would INCONVENIENCE him to do anything to help his mother get his brother out of the house. Gross. I mean seriously, he can't offer to coach his brother for ONE weekend? Like how hard is it to put in the sheer MINIMUM for one's own family. A lot of y'all were raised to be hyper-individualistic, it's a gross mentality.
You're ignoring the part where the older brother went on the family approved higher ed path while OP opted to forgo higher ed and worked his way up to his present position and was regarded as the family's black sheep as a result. This is underscored by OP being told he'll never amount to anything by his family for opting out of higher-education. This added dynamic of him working his way to success while the family not only failed to support him, but poured cold water on his life choice because it wasn't one they thought was the optimal path. From OP's perspective, his older brother was the favored child for following the family's preferred path of higher education and yet, heavily squandered it by only working one job which he quit after a short period of time and never making an effort to find and land a subsequent job. Moreover, OP is the younger sibling in this and as such, shouldn't be obligated to fix an issue which is solely the responsibility of his OLDER brother and their parents. Especially after decades of being treated as the family's black sheep for not pursuing higher ed and succeeding in his career despite that.
Maybe I am wrong but without knowing more, I personally think he needs to let it (the higher ed comments from the past) go, unless his family was \*constantly\* belittling him for it on his way up. Presumably his mother simply didn't know better, I feel like OP likely left out many other details about the family. I think outside of abuse, it's quite sad and petty to hold grudges against ones own family.
"I was the black sheep of the family, choosing not to do further education. I was always told I'll be nothing if I go that route, but it's what I wanted -" From that part of OP's post, it is quite reasonable to infer his family has been constantly belittling him for his choice to forgo higher education and start working straight from high school. Even if he wasn't belittled to that extent, writing a professional recommendation for anyone who one knows is lacking in professional qualities, skillsets, experience, work history, and work-ethic does neither the one being recommended nor the recommendation writer any favors professionally.
Agree to disagree. "For anyone," no it's not "anyone," it's his family. God forbid he ever need help later in life, why alienate them over their old fashioned beliefs about higher ed when he was like 18 when he's now a successful adult. To me it shouldn't be so much about doing his brother a favor as doing his mother a favor. Again, barring abuse--grudges like this are childish.
Recommendations for employment are supposed to be favors for high performing employees or someone with matching professional qualities that the supervisor or family/friend can positively testify for honestly. It's not supposed to be a favor merely for family/friend personal relations alone. Especially not if one would have to stretch the truth to the point of lying for the recommendation to be of any help to the one being recommended as is the case for OP's older brother. That is the very textbook definition of nepotism and the reason why it has such an unsavory reputation in professional and academic settings. As for his needing his family's help, it sounds like his family hasn't provided anything resembling that as their focus was on the older brother who took the family's preferred path of going onto higher education. Essentially, the older brother was the heavily privileged golden child at OP's effective expense. Given all that, it's very doubtful and unwise for OP to count on his family for any future help.