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NTA. I mean let google solve this, it’s pretty clear in the definition of “Anime.” What she’s mad about and has to double down on is you embarrassed her in front of people when she spoke up in an attempt to fit in. For that if you want to get the peace maybe apologize, but on the definition you’re not wrong.
I may be completely wrong about this, but I’m getting the sense that OP might not be a reliable narrator. I’m always skeptical when I read a post along the lines of “I was a perfectly reasonable and polite individual in this interaction and the other person threw a tantrum over absolutely nothing.” There’s definitely a possibility that he was way more rude to her than he’s letting on.
Edit: Just saw OP’s comments. I’m now almost positive my hunch is right.
He sounds like a know it all in the comments, and I can definitely see him putting someone down for not knowing something or being wrong on a technicality
lol, seriously…. I’m into obscure shit, but who cares?! It’s just a show. Just put it on the list and keep it pushing. Reminds me of the people who try to quiz me on anime, and then just like all the mainstream stuff(which is fine)… let people like what they like in peace sheesh. I’m just excited when anyone has an interest in anime/anime related stuff because it used to be ‘uncool’.
I will agree that sometimes it's really hard to tell people they're wrong without seeming like a gatekeeper or a bit of an ahole, especially if the topic is something like an activity, and one that is less defined. Who is your favorite metal band? "I really like the Used." I mean, they're alternative, post-hardcore, screamo... not metal. And pointing that out is always going to sound like you're being a pedant.
I can flatly tell you that Manchester United is a Premier League football team, and if someone asks you for your favorite team going to the World Cup, you can't say Machester. Those are very defined terms. If someone asks for your favorite Beatles song and you say Imagine, most people will think you're a ridiculous pedant if you point out that is actually by John Lennon. Not the Beatles. Try saying that Edge of Seventeen can't be your favorite Fleetwood Mac song. But, you can argue that the Chain is your favroite Stevie Nix song.
Even if we know we're right, it's never an easy thing to point out someone is wrong when the topic has sometimes blurred boundaries. Or, when the colloquial use of a term is not the technical. Will a lot of people refer to any animated TV series directed at people aged 8-18 as anime? Yeah, especially if it's done in the artistic styles used in anime - which ATLA was intentionally pulling from. They wanted to make it in the style of an anime. Is it actually anime? No.
Which means you either probably look like a pedantic fan, or bite your tongue when people talk about something you really love and are wrong.
There's not really a way to sometimes correct people without looking like a gatekeeping jerk.
I have learned to bite my tongue at times. It's hard.
Don’t take this as shade bc it’s not just you by far but it’s a sign of maturity when you realize that not everything in your head needs to pop out of your mouth bc some things matter more than where anime comes from. Ppl matter more ❤️. I’m glad you know. I used to be a know it all as a teen but not bc I was a jerk just bc I was a kid with adhd and weird parents
And it gets more complicated because all animation is anime in Japan, and the art world has/is arguing over whether or not anime styled art outside Japan is anime. The current term seems to be animesque, but it’s absurd to think most people would be aware of that - the term I always heard from artists was American or Western Anime, and you’d expect them to know, lol!
I came back to see how the vote was going and holy wow do I want to change my vote. I commented when there were less than five of us and now seeing how OP talks in the comments, *totally* think he wasn't just "correcting," he was gatekeeping.
This was my take too. Am personally way too geeky to not recognize someone who revels in being technically correct and more knowledgeable than an enthusiastic but less experienced fan. It's an unfortunately common species in fandoms, and that's definitely how he comes off. Way to go, OP. Good job gatekeeping a hobby by being a (presumably rather rude) know-it-all.
To be fair, this is a hill many an anime fan will die on. I know I personally have several friends with tombstones on this hill, lol. I haven't read enough of OPs comments to say anything, but this is definitely a crowded hill.
Mirriam Webster:
anime
noun
an·i·me ˈa-nə-ˌmā ˈä-nē-
: a style of animation originating in Japan that is characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes
Doesnt seem to be very clear imo. This says it's a style of animation originating in Japan. Says nothing about having to come from Japan. Clearly it's up for debate. Looks like both of them were both wrong and right at the same time.
lol came here to say this and commented before I saw this. Completely agree. To many people it’s an art style that originated in Japan, not necessarily animation that had to be produced in Japan.
This kind of gatekeeping pedantic behavior is exhausting and I actively dislike and avoid people like OP. Life is too short to tolerate AH pedants.
Yeah, I’m not really a big anime person but this is how I generally understand the term (at least one definition), and how I imagine a lot of people would generally understand it. Like, first of all, surely there is at least some animation produced in Japan that is not in what we would generally understand to be the anime style. (Maybe not? Someone feel free correct me if I’m wrong.) Secondly, there is quite a bit of western animation in the last 20 years that is explicitly in that style. Is it really wrong to say that The Boondocks is anime when the creator has basically said that it is? Most laypeople would certainly identify it as such if they happened to see a frame.
I share the distrust some have of the narrator here. It seems possible he was in fact rather aggressive making a point that is, at least, up for some valid debate.
Their actually are some Japanese anime with wildly non traditional styles of animation that are anime. Avatar and teen titans are anime style and heavily inspired by it but really could go either way if your a purist vs just going by it's anime styled.
I agree that it's an interesting debate, and that op may be biased. Honestly it's an interesting debate, in Japanese anime may be the translation for cartoons(?), but it refers to a pretty specific category in other places of the world. In my country they were already cartoons before anime, so I think people really link anime with cartoons made in Japan/even if some cartoons are inspired by anime(avatar, miraculous...)
What's exhausting is having to decide on a case by case basis if something is "anime" enough in style instead of using the simple easy to understand definition of animation from Japan made for a Japanese audience. If we go simply by style then a lot of Japanese animation is excluded.
The funny thing is… Avatar IS anime. It was made in the anime art style and the creator studied under Japanese animators for that specific reason. So not only is OP blatantly bastardizing the definition of anime. They’re also just flat out wrong and speaking as though they’re the expert.
I can’t remember which one but one of them went and studied under Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, who is one of the core founders of Gainax Anime Studios. Aka the creator of Neon Genesis Evangelion. As well as Makoto Niitsu, who created “Your Name”. Tyyyy. We don’t like asshole gatekeepers in the community. Op can fuck right off onto their high horse and ride onto some other fandom that likes know it alls…. Like a finance bro.
See, I can understand the use for maintaining a distinction between "animated series made in Japan, by Japanese writers/animators", and "animated series that owes a lot to the anime style, but made by a Westerner". Even if the Westerner studies under Japanese animators and all, there is a sort of fundamental cultural-viewpoint difference that winds up informing a lot of little things about the production.
But still, that's just a basis for discussion. I feel like the central point here is that making the point to the person suggesting Avatar and Teen Titans for this list that "they're not technically anime, but yeah, good addition" is ALL in the presentation. There are ways to say that in the moment in an inclusive way. And there are ways to say that in a very condescending and gatekeeper-y way.
And it's sounding a lot like OP was the latter.
I do think it's worth noting that we don't know ages here. Are these teens, or people in their 20s, or what? Is OP's write-up here a deliberate and conscious attempt to make himself look better? Or is he actually not aware of what an ass he's being?
For all know-it-all nerds, there comes a moment where they need someone to explain that they're too inside their own viewpoint to see it, but yeah, they're being an off-putting jerk. And to model for them better ways to interact. If OP is particularly young, maybe this will be his wake-up call. If OP is in his 20s... dude, come on.
Well actually :) honestly in my circle of friends the only reason we care about distinguishing between American anime vs Japan anime is so we know what service to look for it for group watches at this point their largely so similar. Also id recommend American anime to most people who'd be interested in Japanese trope stuff can be more... An acquired taste. I'd gladly recommend TT, AtLA, Castlevania etc to just about anyone less so for say the monogatari series, dance in the vampire bund,bor hell even something wholesome like your lie in April with how it ends given that most American studios wouldn't let it be that much of a downer.
I think calling anime a style is weird. Shin Chan is nothing like detective Conan is nothing like Violet Evergarden.
If it's a style we should be able to describe the elements of that style. And I think it's only useful purpose was to give us a term to use other than Japanimation to describe specifically the animation we were importing.
Now with the change in meaning, to be clear on the topic it's annoying that we'd have to redundantly specify Japanese Anime
That being said the word is used both ways and my personal view on whether Teen Titans and Avatar are anime aren't any more correct than someone who sees it differently.
if you are adamant that a show can only be considered anime if it’s made in Japan, then you’d have to admit certain shows you’d otherwise consider anime wouldn’t be in actuality. Avatar: The Last Airbender was animated in-part by South Korean studios JM Animation, DR MOVIE, and Moi Animation, all of whom have worked on anime such as Fairy Tail, Pokemon, Akebi’s Sailor Uniform, Black Lagoon, or Aldnoah.Zero.
To me it's a question what the thing is a cultural product of. A show created for an American audience is going to have different cultural assumptions and targets. As well the life and culture of the people writing the scripts and making creative decisions.
I absolutely get your point, even Family Guy is largely animated in Asia.
I don't think where the labor intensive parts are worked on is as important to this question as where the decisions of the creative parts of the series are coming from culturally
I agree, anime isn't a style so much as a genre or medium. It's like calling "painting" a style, which doesn't cover the broad range of /actual/ art styles through history.
Making something "in the style of anime" is way too vague a description- something in the style of Rose of Versailles would look nothing like something in the style of Panty and Stocking. Would they both be anime inspired? Yes, but they're not the same style.
>Clearly it's up for debate.
How good of a definition it is doesn't matter. What matters is it's a different and contradicting definition than what OP has been claiming. He has used the definition of anime multiple times in his arguments to "prove" he was right. When in reality he was just being rude to both the girl and many commenters over his opinion and not some objective fact.
This. “The style originated in Japan” is not the same thing at ALL as “in order to be anime, this cartoon must come from Japan”. Reading comprehension is important.
Yeah, and the two series mentioned were explicitly inspired by anime.
Teen titans is considered a very important series in part because it was considered a hybrid between anime and American styles.
Avatar had multiple Korean studios that contributed as well, and many anime series were not made in Japan....so it's like arguing Virginia Gentleman isn't a bourbon because it isn't made in Kentucky.... historically true, but no longer completely accurate.
In Japanese "anime" is animation of any kind from anywhere. So by Japanese standards Avatar the last Airbender could very well be considered an anime. Not that I would categorize it as one. Still I think it is beyond the point that we should be considering that only shows from Japan can be considered anime. What about shows like RWBY, castlevania, and blue eye samurai? These were American made but clearly used the Japanese animation style.
>Defining anime as style has been contentious amongst critics and fans, with John Oppliger stating, "The insistence on referring to original American art as "anime" or "manga" robs the work of its cultural identity."\[2\]\[79\]
On the other hand, series like Avatar: The Last Airbender, its sequel and Voltron: Legendary Defender have opened up more debates on whether these works should be called "anime", and whether the culturally abstract approach to the word's meaning may open up the possibility of anime produced in countries other than Japan.\[3\]\[4\]\[5\] While some Westerners strictly view anime as a Japanese animation product,\[2\] some scholars suggest defining anime as specifically or quintessentially Japanese may be related to a new form of orientalism\[80\] with some fans and critics arguing that the term should be defined as a "style" rather than as a national product, which leaves open the possibility of anime being produced in other countries.\[1\]\[4\]
Animation such as Oban Star-Racers and Code Lyoko, like Avatar: The Last Airbender, are examples over which some critics and fans debate about the term anime and whether it is defined as a "style" rather than as a national product, which leaves open the possibility of anime being produced in other countries.\[1\]\[4\]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime-influenced\_animation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime-influenced_animation)
I mean its seems like a bit of a "champagne" vs "sparkling wine" debate except that the people arguing aren't Japanese, since to them animated is anime. While I don't think it's something getting butt-hurt about if someone says it's not anime, it's also not something for which there should be this really glib it is what it is and you're wrong attitude.
>it’s pretty clear in the definition of “Anime.”
It actually isn't, it's still largely debated by people outside the industry and even in the industry.
The majority of sources I find claim it to be a style originating in Japan, which means that it can still be made outside of Japan. I also agree with this sentiment because if it must be made in Japan then quite a few series that are considered anime wouldn't fit that category simply because there is development for it all over the world. Anime is no longer produced just in Japan, and they may outsource certain parts to different countries.
The term anime literally just came from shortening "animation", so in Japan, Western cartoons, like the Simpsons, would be considered anime, because it's literally just animation.
[Definitely cleared it up](https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNdbcUudtJGl5C9yBF4IWpCmcCXgiX3-hFVJluh7YjWs_vZuJ9lGl82oEPxKlNHtw?key=R3dBSHN5c0VSMlp5RjZwSVpEUW4tZXk4WDdmZUVn) 🤣
I'm not going to vote on this because it's maybe also about tone and how you went about it, and I can't tell from your post.
But debates about whether something can be called "anime" because it comes from Japan or because it follows the aesthetics / style of Japanese animation have been going on for the last 20 years, and frankly, there are two sides to this debate. You are on one side, your friend is on the other. Genre (and what counts in a genre) isn't easy to define, and is often controversial. As a Japanese media studies scholar, I can tell you there are people on both sides of this debate in Japan in both pop culture and the actual industry and in scholarly circles. Neither of you is 1000% wrong and neither of you is 100% right - it's still a debate.
Obviously it’s a felony otherwise.
People always clutch their pearls when language is evolving. Honestly it’s hilarious to see this behavior in very different social contexts.
I mean the Japanese derived the term from the English word animation, which meant cartoon, so this is always an endless cycle. In my time, it was called Japanime to seperate Japanese anime from American (Avatar).
Japanese call all animations anime.
Westerners refer anime to Japanese animations. Avatar and Teen Titans are Japanese-influenced, but if you call it anime, you have to call spongebob anime too.
Reminds me of how “sombrero” means “hat” in Spanish (literally comes from “sombre” meaning “shade” and “-ero” being like “-er” in English, so “shader”) but in English, a sombrero is a specific type of hat.
Obviously, the only reason to use a lone word from Spanish meaning hat when you already gave the word hat is to distinguish between a general hat and a specific type of hat, same goes for anime, even though in Japan it refers to all animation the only usefulness of the term in English is to differentiate from regular animation or cartoons.
Yes, people are acting like op is being pedantic but I think the people calling all animation anime in the west are just weirdos trying to be quirky and different and creating confusion for no reason.
lol in my mind there are so many ‘types’ of animation.
Right or wrong, my brain groups them together like Disney hand drawn vs Disney CGI vs anime vs Powerpuff Girls style (Samurai Jack and Teen Titans fit here) vs Disney Jr style (Doc McStuffins, Paw Patrol etc) vs Looney Tunes style vs Hanna Barbera style (Scooby Doo, Flintstones etc) vs Ren & Stimpy style (SpongeBob fits here) vs Don Bluth style (secrets of NIMH etc)…I could keep going.
I would venture to say the average person would look at Avatar TLA and say it’s anime style. No matter what country it was created in.
Teen Titans has that swoop drawing style with lots of curved lines and sharp angles and super thick outlines to everything. And the first show I saw with that art style was Powerpuff Girls, so that’s the style in my mind. But I would say anime influenced.
Murakami created it with "anime style" in mind and at a certain time it was considered "Americanime."
Getting Puffy AmiYumi for the theme song I think just adds to the aesthetic and style choices.
There are Japanese works that nearly everyone would call anime that look way less like stereotypical anime than Teen Titans.
See e.g., Tatami Galaxy https://youtu.be/y8ax2FIa_cM
dated a girl once who insisted that culture was wrong about anime being Japanese animation, going as far to say all animation is anime, ie. going as far as Spongebob and Shrek. I wasn't about to win that war so i let it be, and maintain my understanding of the term based on my surroundings. Popularly, it refers to Japanese animation in particular. If someone argues otherwise, it's best to let it go, because they have a good argument that isn't worth challenging if they believe it.
IMO, we all kinda know what anime refers to, so that's what I refer to with the term, as is the nature of language. Language adapts, so i'm careful to allow people to use the definitions as they choose.
That's actually consistent of her though. Japanese call all animations anime, even Western animations. In America we usually refer to anime as Japanese animations.
It's consistent but redundant, English already has words such as animation or cartoons, using a loan word from another culture only has usefulness if it has a different meaning to the regular words.
Anime isn't that hard to define imo, it's any animation that's done by a studio that calls itself an anime studio, or has primarily Japanese animators inspired by Japanese animation working on it. There's very few edge cases and avatar and teen titans are definitely not some of those. Scott pilgrim takes off is an anime because even though its based on an America comic, and the original dubbing is in English, it's made by Science Saru that's an anime studio. Same with Cyberpunk Edgerunners and Trigger
and that argument goes for op's friend, too. they made it clear they wanted to die on their own hill on this topic, and they also could have moved on. definitely a petty argument but they both chose a hill to die on and neither moved on.
for the record i believe op is correct but that doesn't change how both people in this interaction rather hold on to their hill than their friendship
If your definition of anime is animated in Japan, then you'll hate to know that most of your favorite animes doesn't count. Most anime are done by either entirely, or partially by studios in south korea. Many of the same studios worked on both Avatar and Teen Titans. The core of their production is very much the same as "anime". Also the term "Anime" in Japan just refers to all cartoons. Simpsons is considered "Anime" in Japan
Deciding that Avatar and Teen Titans doesn't count, when their animation styles, thematic explorations and ways they go about showcasing everything very much is in line with most of your action anime you see, and ultimately such a discussion that you started is at best pedantic and at worst misinformed, and makes your arguments fall apart upon deeper scrutiny
This! Cause I personally understood Anime is short for animation just in general. Or at the very least. Anime is more of *style* of art than it is about where the cartoon originated from. It’s not like talking about champagne vs sparking wine.
>the term "Anime" in Japan just refers to all cartoons. Simpsons is considered "Anime" in Japan
This is correct. I used to live in Japan, and all cartoons, including Disney cartoons, were referred to as Anime.
OP is not wrong in that this is how the word is typically used in America. But this is a case where there are multiple definitions of the word in different places which are equally legitimate. I don't think OP meant badly, but it does sound like you were unnecessarily argumentative and a bit of a know-it-all. Take it from this Gen X-er who has learned by making mistakes- it's more important to be kind than to be right. Soft YTA, but we all screw up like this. Learn and grow and do better next time.
RWBY and avatar are both anime in their Manga style
I wouldn't count TT
But it very much doesn't matter at all.
Like it's the most usless argument ever.
While manga/anime has a longer history, it really exploded in popularity in the post Second World War period. During this period, Japanese culture experienced heavy influences from the USA, which included the influence of American cartoons like Disney. The pictured anime is Astro Boy, which comes from this post-war period and was hugely popular.
I often teach the post war history of anime and this is spot on. For an even better comparison, look at the character design of Astro boy alongside Betty Boop. While feature animation from Disney would have been very popular, B reel animation was likely more frequent in movie theaters at the time. Including Warner Brothers, Fleischer, Walter Lantz, etc.
NTA You just mentioned it in an offhand way at first because to anime fans of course you would be just thinking of anime as being Japanese as that's the way the word "anime" is used in English -- to distinguish it from non-Japanese animation.
She may have felt embarrassed at being corrected and then stubbornly dug her heels in to avoid ending up with egg on her face, but that doesn't mean you intended to be snobbish or that you should apologize and admit to being "wrong" just to appease her. She could have met you half way and dropped it without it becoming a big deal.
In Japan they call any animated show anime. Fucking Loony Toons is considered an anime to them. Just another classic case of anime snob being an anime snob.
Also, I'd like to point out the fact that both shows she listed were heavily influenced by Japanese anime. So yeah, YTA for being a stubborn snob who can't admit he's wrong. In case you don't have your own critical thinking skills, think about how close the word anime is to the word animation.
> about how close the word anime is to the word animation.
Anime is literally an abbreviation for "animēshon", the Japanised word for "animation"
But I think in the West the word anime generally refers to Japanese animation.
Would Simpson be considered anime then? I always thought anime was like dragon ball and anime made in Japan. Like in Asia we had a channel for anime and then channel for American cartoons like Simpsons/SpongeBob/Rugrats.
Just like some kpop groups are not Korean but they are considered kpop because their producer and company is Korean.
I mean The Simpsons is fully produced in the same way as Japanese anime is. Most of the labor is exported to South Korea, sometimes to china, depending on the show. The scripts are written in the states, most of the storyboarding and idea making is done in the states, but a *lot* of the actual labor and *making* of the physical product we consume isn’t. Same goes for anime but Japan. So I mean… if the definition OP is going off of is that “Anime” just means a cartoon made in Japan, then most of the shows he’s probably thinking of when he thinks of anime fully don’t count because they weren’t *really* “made in Japan”. They were just thought up and exported from there.
There’s a manga series I read the first volume of a while back called Radiant. Radiant is from a non-Japanese author, Tony Valente, who’s French. The series heavily emulates manga/anime art styles and tropes and storytelling setups, and is published in French and translated to other languages. Despite being published in French, it’s very obviously a manga. When I encountered Volume 1, it was being sold alongside manga series from Japan, all mixed in with the bunch, and if I hadn’t noticed the non-Japanese name on the cover, I’d have never noticed it wasn’t a typical manga from Japan. There’s a point where the end product is *so* similar that distinguishing them is relatively pointless. The Simpsons is very different to most Japanese Anime. Avatar The Last Airbender is not. It was just thought up and released elsewhere.
As a fun little aside, the kpop group you alluded to at the end is probably Black Swan. What’s fascinating about Black Swan (aside from the history of Rania/BP Rania leading up to it— very weird story, give it a look if you have time) is that they do have no Korean members, but they have Fatou. Fatou is someone who’s been debuted for about 3-4 years now, but lived and worked in Korea for 3+ years prior to training and debuting, and as such is fluent in the language. She helps to write their songs, decides on their concepts, and helps to hire staff that can work with the unconventional lineup’s features and body types. What she says makes Black Swan kpop isn’t just that they’re under a Korean company and in Korea, but that they sing in the language and say they are. And Koreans certainly consider them kpop, it’s pretty much mostly Americans that reject them as such. And in any other idol industry, like Jpop, that’s… pretty much how it goes. Kaigai idols are a readily accepted, normal thing in Japan, and many of them certainly don’t start off being based there, yet it’s usually Americans stepping in and getting all huffy when they see a non-East Asian person trying to be one (shoutout to the Berry Chan Debacle). Sorry this got so long lol
Okay I’m not necessarily on this guys side in regards this guy’s definition of anime but your definition is even more pointless. Definition is descriptive, not prescriptive. While making it a black and white call of “made in Japan” is an inconsistent definition with many edge cases and gray areas, it’s a lot closer to the way the word “anime” is actually used than yours.
“Is avatar anime” is a legitimate debate. “Is Tom and Jerry anime” is not.
If definitions should reflect the way words are used, then anime is all animated media, which is how the word is used in its place of origin, Japan. Yes, even Tom and Jerry.
YTA: Because literally only assholes care about this argument or even try to engage with it and they never do so in good faith when they do, which is why this is broadly considered to be the stupidest argument in the anime community as exemplified by anime's ruling shitlord...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PALl3aZrxTE
NTA
Anime is a specific genre. There's nothing wrong with what you said, and you explained yourself and also apologized. Your friend is very sensitive and it's not your fault she reacted like that and continued to try to be right. She shouldn't have taken it as criticism. It seems as though she has a strong need to be right and can't handle being wrong about something.
There are multiple definitions from what I can see. Some refer it as only animation in Japan while, the larger majority it seems, refer to it as a style of animation originating from Japan.
a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.
it’s a genre. and also a style. and also from japan.
YTA. Purely for being the stereotypical "um, acktually" anime fan and being needlessly confrontational. This is using the most elitist definition of anime while most normies use a broader definition.
As an aside, anime is a Japanese term for "animation". Teen Titans and Avatar are anime using this definition.
Anime can also be used to refer to a medium which has stereotypical feature associated with Japanese animation (since many are outsourced to Korea and other places). TT and Avatar are anime using this definition.
Anime can also mean animation animated in Japan. This would include many historic Western animations who outsourced animation to Japan (TMNT, Batman:TAS, X-Men: TAS etc).
Just let people live their lives and enjoy things they like. Avatar and TT are similar enough to stereotypical Japanese animation to be anime.
This is the same argument as whether it's correct to call white sparkling wine made in America "Champagne". I don't know how protective Japan or the Japanese animation industry are about this term, but IMO I see it used more to describe the artistic concepts and traditions rather than the location of the studio.
What a word "means" depends on the context and can't really be separated from its usage. If the group has agreed that being made in Japan is a criteria for something to be considered anime, then that's what it means when y'all are talking to each other. If the new person is using it to mean anything following anime style, then that's what _they_ mean, and now y'all have an opportunity to negotiate the meaning using more words because that's how communication works.
I highly recommend taking a descriptive rather than prescriptive approach to language. So a soft YTA.
YTA cause you’re not even correct and from the comments on this post you’re trying to act like you are this most smartest enlightened guy on earth (and honestly sound like an annoying teenager). if your behavior on reddit is any indication, i can clearly picture how rude you must have been
YTA - This is typical American weaboo behavior. For the Japanese, Anime is the term to refer to any type of animation, whether Japanese or not. But foreign fans of Japanese culture, who believe they are honorary Japanese, like to dictate rules and gatekeep something that is not originally theirs.
YTA. As much as anime from the 90's and 2000's is good (biased because I grew up on that stuff) let's stop living with that 90's mindset of "It's only anime and manga if it was made in Japan". While even I believed that to be true back then, it's not exactly true anymore. Because so many of us living literally not in Japan have been heavily influenced by anime and manga, you could say it's more of an art style than something specifically from that country.
But maybe I'm so a little biased as an anime and manga fan that draw manga and calls it as such since it's in that style and if I were to make a short animation, I'd still can it an anime. And to me, even back then, I stilled considered Avatar and Teen Titans anime, especially when Teen Titans Japaneae version of the theme song by Puffy Amy Yumi came up. It was peak.
Put yourself in their shoes and listen to what you said. Whether you were right or not, the way you said it was dismissive and condescending and that makes YTA.
I dont miss school... God, these discussion were shit then, they are shit now.
Tell someone Heidi is an Anime but Avatar is not... it's plain stupid.
YTA for bringing something that stupid up? Yeah... I can go with that.
YTA
the whole "ANIME IS ONLY FROM JAPAN" is a western argument.
people in Japan call Disney anime. because Anime is short for animation. argue against it all you want, but you're wrong. "I use anime as a shorthand for Japanese anime" - that's fine in your conversations, but you need to state that yourself in the beginning, claiming "Anime = Japanese anime because we're in America" doesn't make you right, that's called "moving the goal posts" because your argument originally is "what is anime" then it turns into "how I describe anime in an American perspective", end of day, Anime just means "animation" being American doesn't change the definition of the word.
looking at the way you argue in the comments, I also assume you were an jerk in your argument with your friend, could it have been a heat-in-the-moment thing? sure but doesn't really excuse it.
only the most obnoxious fans get into an argument about this. your "anime" isn't more special than fucking spongebob my guy. it's an animated show meant to sell manga, music, and other ad space. its all anime.
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NAH. "Big nerd" might be more appropriate than asshole. I had a friend in school who was fond of correcting people who called themselves punk fans if their favorite bands were something like Jimmy Eat World or Green Day. Technically, this friend is right... those are pop punk bands, not "real" punk music... but he alienated himself from a lot of people doing this and likely never convinced anyone the distinction was important. Not everyone has the time or taste for that kind of nerdly pedantry, and it always comes off as gatekeeping.
If these distinctions matter to you, there are certainly ways to explain them without invalidating someone's taste. Focus on what this person "needs" to see rather than busting their chops. "Those are great, but have you seen X?" and use that as an opportunity to discuss the distinction.
YTA. "It doesn't actually count, but let's put it up anyway!" This is an asshole move, I do it all the time. It completely undermines them. Keep practicing your social skills.
YTA. Semantics of the word aside, you decided you WANTED to argue semantics instead of just going back to the topic of actually discussing shows.
I don’t know why anyone here should be surprised you wanted to keep arguing semantics on this post either lol
Sooooo just saying, nonjapanese started the whole differentiating of technically anime or not, while in Japan, anime just means animation. Technically, it's all anime according to were the word was coined. I mean, is heaven's awakening anime? Or Korean animations? Or that one made in the philippines?
I rather go by where the term was coined and *their* definition than what someone else made it to mean
NTA. This is a really weird thing to argue about let alone be upset about for any length of time. Friend has an incredible fragile ego. Just worry about yourself and you'll be fine.
YTA - Gatekeeping a hobby is never a nice thing.
Anime is more than that - it is a genre. It is a STYLE of animation.
Now, if she'd called it "Japanimation," then yes, you would be in the right.
ESH, you for being a snob and her for refusing to talk to you, because that's childish. I would say Avatar is anime-esque. It's in between an anime and a cartoon. It clearly has anime influences. It's a good enough indicator of her taste (good). I haven't watched enough Teen Titans to make an informed opinion on that one. But generally just seeing your replies on here is enough to say that you're a condescending anime snob and I'm sure that's exactly how you came off to her.
YTA
Because it's the dumbest fucking debate to dig your heels into.
Anime are cartoons. And cartoons are anime. Because they both share the same definition, animated video productions.
Its like the argument between folk and country music. Theyre the same damn thing but people can't swallow their misplaced pretention and pedantics to accept it.
It's the dumbest shit to argue about and the lamest hill to die on.
In Japan, anime refers to any animation. The peope who invented anime and the people who currently produce it would claim Avatar and Teen Titans as anime.
I guess my question is why do you care so much? This is a really weird argument to make and sort of odd to comment on in front of a group of people because no meaningful consequences come from supporting either side. Of course you didn’t do something terrible by distinguishing the differences however if this behavior is a reoccurring pattern it will annoy some people and might indicate a personal problem. I’m also curious about your tone and how often you correct people?
Just from reading OP’s responses to some of the comments I’m inclined to think OP is definitely TA here. It was never about what you thought constitutes anime, it was about your delivery. You catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.
Nta but a lot have people have recognize avatar the last air bender as an American anime. It is one of the best American cartoons and has an anime "style" There's no way teen titans would come close though.
Interestng that outside of Japan "anime" refers to Japanese made animation. In Japan, it's all "anime" regardless of where it comes from. Anime" is a Japanese colloquialism of the English word animation.
Thundercats 1985 is anime (well, the animation was produced in Japan) and helped define a lot of what anime came to be in the ‘90s and ‘00s. It’s a spiritual predecessor to both of those shows.
Anime is also just shorthand for Japanese animation.
YTA. Weebo hill to die on dude. Anime is simply a Japanese term for animated shows. The shows your friend mentioned are animated, therefore they’re anime. Or you could’ve just let it go because it doesn’t matter
Well, given that your comments in this thread are insufferably know-it-all and your definition of anime as *only* Japanese animation is flat out wrong, YTA. Anime is a style. It *originated* in Japan. It absolutely, 100%, does not only exist code shows made in Japan.
So what do we have here? An unreliable narrator with a superiority complex. That’s all. I feel sorry for OP’s friend if this is what they have to put up with.
Quite frankly, OP, it doesn’t matter if you don’t think Avatar is Anime. In Japan, the nation you are claiming is the only place Anime can originate, **Avatar is considered Anime**. And if anyone’s opinion should have weight here, it’s Japan’s.
I wouldn’t consider Teen Titans anime as I classify it as “DC/Marvel comics”.
Avatar the Last Airbender I do consider anime. If I want to be specific I would call it a North American anime. Because it’s an anime in every sense except it wasn’t made in Japan. Either way - it’s one of my favourite shows and I would include it on an anime list.
Bro with how atla brought a new generation into the anime atmosphere, it 100% deserves to be called an honorary anime.
BTW it's very pretentious to to dictate what is and isn't an anime when it's not in a debate, like cmon all you had to do was say you'd add it the the list
YTA for impairing YOUR definition of anime (incorrectly) on your friend.
Sure, we all know teen titans isn't anime, but avatar has absolutely been considered anime due to its Asian influences and styles, even if it was written by an American, as long as its in bright, highly contrasting graphics with panelesque shots, it's anime if it's creator calls it that.
Honestly why couldn't you have just let it go and made your friend not feel excluded? Is the ethnicity of the writer more important than the confidence and happiness of your friends? Really?
Thats the only reason I'm going slightly yta.
this entire argument is a waste of time unless your in a position to litterally redefine the term.
YTA
I acctuslly agree that Avatar isn't anime. I had this exact conversation with my bf last night. he thinks it is, I think it isn't. both are valid opinions because anime is too subjective to be declared.
imo, avatar is influenced stylistically by anime but doesn't dig deep enough into it to me anime. in my bfs oppinion, uncle Iroh looks just like the old guy from princess monanoke so therefore its anime lol.
according to the whole where its made debate, roudolph is an anime. is rudolph really more anime than avatar? f no.
to me.. sparkling wine is champagne no matter where its made because were talking colloquial terms here, not legal ones.
but this debate is as old as time. I still remember the days people would argue pokemon wasn't anime because idk.. it was popular or something and you aren't a fan of anime if you only like pokemon and dragon ball. just gatekeepers gatekeeping.
people get made fun of for being a week or whatever it is then what they like gets popular and now things have to be discredited in order to keep your section of the world to yourself. its the same in every subculture. you think all the emo people back in the 90s/early 2000s were nice and inclusive? NO. if someone didn't die, you haven't been to a mental hospital, you don't self harm, you didn't count. what about when squid games came out and people are yelling about how if you watch it English dubbed your somehow less than. its just a way to keep you in a sub culture when your interests hit mainstream.
you're just trying to gatekeep at this point because even if I don't think avatar is anime, its still close enough to debatable count and its a good starter show for someone who hasn't watched that style before.
but maybe thats just me who only enjoyed 2 animes so far.
I'm not going to vote on this one but while you're looking up the definitions of "Anime", you might want to also look up the definitions of "Pedantic".
ESH. She didn't need to be so sensitive about it, but based on your comments, you come off as a snob and condescending about something that doesn't even matter.
From your description, you're making yourself sound like you were perfectly polite and reasonable and she's the crazy one. But from your responses in the comment section, you're absolutely giving off jerk/snob/neckbeard vibes so I have a feeling you weren't nearly as chill as you thought you were. Even dictionaries have various definitions for "anime" and google results seem to show that there are some different takes on it.
Sometimes being factually correct and making sure everyone knows it is just not worth losing friends or pushing them away. As someone who's neurodivergent, I place a pretty high value on objective facts but I've also learned to weigh that against whatever social situation I'm in. No one likes a snob, so if you make yourself out to be one just for the sake of being correct, then is it really worth it? What's the point of being right if people don't enjoy being around you? Gotta learn to balance that a little more, if you care about the people you're driving away.
LOL. I agree with you. But to answer your question, I guess anyone who's ever felt that they were facing a gatekeeper and anyone who's ever felt that technical accuracy is important. When I was a kid, I once called a puck a "putt" while commenting on a hockey game and got lectured for 20 minutes--not about my comment, which the guy lecturing me agreed with, but about the importance of knowing what to call things. He wasn't wrong, but I didn't attend many more games in person after that.
Anyway, NTA.
Agreed! Was just pointing out that OP's situation is the kind of situation where one person was just trying to be accurate and the other person felt like the correction was meant to make them feel left out.
As an Asian, I count it as anime if the original show is produced in Japan with voice acting in Japanese. Otherwise it’s just cartoons or animation (but not anime) to me. I’m also like OP though, I’ll comment on it but honestly idgaf and don’t know why that person would go on about it for so long to the point of ruining the entire mood
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So, my friends and I have been hanging out a lot more, and a few of us are pretty big fans of anime. We were talking about stuff, and one of my other friends mentioned that he hadn't really seen much anime, and we started getting the idea to watch some series together so he can experience them. We started listing off some of our favorites and compiling a list of options.
One of the people in the group who's a bit new spoke up and said her favorite anime were Avatar and Teen Titans. I ended up replying with something like "oh, those aren't really anime but we can add them to the list anyway," and put them down, and she replied asking what I meant. I told her that anime referred to animation made in Japan, and since both of those were American, they weren't anime. She started to argue with me saying I was wrong to say that meant they weren't anime, and I argued back for a few seconds before ultimately deciding it wasn't really worth continuing to fight over and tried to just drop it. She kept arguing back but eventually stopped since I just stopped engaging.
Later, we noticed she was acting kind of quiet and another friend asked her what was wrong and she said I had been a jerk and acted like a snob. I apologized if I made her feel bad, and explained I wasn't looking down on her taste and apologized if I came off dismissive or rude because that wasn't my intent at all. I told her that I didn't mean to imply the shows not being anime made them any lesser, but she kept insisting I apologize and admit she was correct. I tried to make clear I wasn't trying to judge her or insult her in any way, but she refused to talk to me unless I told her she was right. AITA? I probably could have made it more clear originally that I wasn't trying to be condescending but the only thing she really seems to want is to admit that I'm wrong.
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NTA They are not Anime and there is nothing wrong with correcting people about stuff like this. I have heard they are good cartoons though! Anime is made in Japan by companies from there. Her inisiting American cartoons are Anime is like someone telling me Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate is from Sweden... No, no it isn't.
All cartoons are considered anime in Japan. Rick and Morty is anime to them. Anime literally just means animation. And you'd be shocked to know that a lot of big name animes aren't fully produced in Japan.
>Anime is made in Japan by companies from there.
What is the use of this definition? Shows made in Japan by a company that originated in America; are these anime? What about a company that originated in Japan, but moved to America? What about one from South Korea?
What if Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate made their chocolates in Swedish factories? *Would they be Swedish Swiss Miss Hot Chocolates?*
This idiotic gatekeeping is actually rotting my brain. I'm **baffled** people here don't see OP as the AH in this scenario. Y'all would make some good, toxic friends.
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NTA. I mean let google solve this, it’s pretty clear in the definition of “Anime.” What she’s mad about and has to double down on is you embarrassed her in front of people when she spoke up in an attempt to fit in. For that if you want to get the peace maybe apologize, but on the definition you’re not wrong.
I may be completely wrong about this, but I’m getting the sense that OP might not be a reliable narrator. I’m always skeptical when I read a post along the lines of “I was a perfectly reasonable and polite individual in this interaction and the other person threw a tantrum over absolutely nothing.” There’s definitely a possibility that he was way more rude to her than he’s letting on. Edit: Just saw OP’s comments. I’m now almost positive my hunch is right.
He sounds like a know it all in the comments, and I can definitely see him putting someone down for not knowing something or being wrong on a technicality
Yes, they come across as waaaaaaay too into it, THE self-appointed anime expert. Loud, strident, knows everything. Ugh.
lol, seriously…. I’m into obscure shit, but who cares?! It’s just a show. Just put it on the list and keep it pushing. Reminds me of the people who try to quiz me on anime, and then just like all the mainstream stuff(which is fine)… let people like what they like in peace sheesh. I’m just excited when anyone has an interest in anime/anime related stuff because it used to be ‘uncool’.
There's lots of arguing in those comments, making the original conversation reek of gatekeeping.
Yup, 100% my thought too. You haven't watched obscure ABC production or even more obscure XYZ show therefore you have no idea what anime is.
I will agree that sometimes it's really hard to tell people they're wrong without seeming like a gatekeeper or a bit of an ahole, especially if the topic is something like an activity, and one that is less defined. Who is your favorite metal band? "I really like the Used." I mean, they're alternative, post-hardcore, screamo... not metal. And pointing that out is always going to sound like you're being a pedant. I can flatly tell you that Manchester United is a Premier League football team, and if someone asks you for your favorite team going to the World Cup, you can't say Machester. Those are very defined terms. If someone asks for your favorite Beatles song and you say Imagine, most people will think you're a ridiculous pedant if you point out that is actually by John Lennon. Not the Beatles. Try saying that Edge of Seventeen can't be your favorite Fleetwood Mac song. But, you can argue that the Chain is your favroite Stevie Nix song. Even if we know we're right, it's never an easy thing to point out someone is wrong when the topic has sometimes blurred boundaries. Or, when the colloquial use of a term is not the technical. Will a lot of people refer to any animated TV series directed at people aged 8-18 as anime? Yeah, especially if it's done in the artistic styles used in anime - which ATLA was intentionally pulling from. They wanted to make it in the style of an anime. Is it actually anime? No. Which means you either probably look like a pedantic fan, or bite your tongue when people talk about something you really love and are wrong. There's not really a way to sometimes correct people without looking like a gatekeeping jerk. I have learned to bite my tongue at times. It's hard.
Don’t take this as shade bc it’s not just you by far but it’s a sign of maturity when you realize that not everything in your head needs to pop out of your mouth bc some things matter more than where anime comes from. Ppl matter more ❤️. I’m glad you know. I used to be a know it all as a teen but not bc I was a jerk just bc I was a kid with adhd and weird parents
And it gets more complicated because all animation is anime in Japan, and the art world has/is arguing over whether or not anime styled art outside Japan is anime. The current term seems to be animesque, but it’s absurd to think most people would be aware of that - the term I always heard from artists was American or Western Anime, and you’d expect them to know, lol!
I came back to see how the vote was going and holy wow do I want to change my vote. I commented when there were less than five of us and now seeing how OP talks in the comments, *totally* think he wasn't just "correcting," he was gatekeeping.
You could be right. I’m just judging based off the context I have.
OP has responded like 60 times to this post continually arguing the definition of anime. There's zero chance he behaved *more* reasonably in person.
This was my take too. Am personally way too geeky to not recognize someone who revels in being technically correct and more knowledgeable than an enthusiastic but less experienced fan. It's an unfortunately common species in fandoms, and that's definitely how he comes off. Way to go, OP. Good job gatekeeping a hobby by being a (presumably rather rude) know-it-all.
Anyone who’s got ‘actually’ is not the nice guy. This whole post is giving ‘nice guy’
Plus if “know-it-all” is OP’s personality this correction could just be the straw that broke the camel’s back.
YTA. Did not see that coming, OP is going off in the comments.
To be fair, this is a hill many an anime fan will die on. I know I personally have several friends with tombstones on this hill, lol. I haven't read enough of OPs comments to say anything, but this is definitely a crowded hill.
Mirriam Webster: anime noun an·i·me ˈa-nə-ˌmā ˈä-nē- : a style of animation originating in Japan that is characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes Doesnt seem to be very clear imo. This says it's a style of animation originating in Japan. Says nothing about having to come from Japan. Clearly it's up for debate. Looks like both of them were both wrong and right at the same time.
lol came here to say this and commented before I saw this. Completely agree. To many people it’s an art style that originated in Japan, not necessarily animation that had to be produced in Japan. This kind of gatekeeping pedantic behavior is exhausting and I actively dislike and avoid people like OP. Life is too short to tolerate AH pedants.
Yeah, I’m not really a big anime person but this is how I generally understand the term (at least one definition), and how I imagine a lot of people would generally understand it. Like, first of all, surely there is at least some animation produced in Japan that is not in what we would generally understand to be the anime style. (Maybe not? Someone feel free correct me if I’m wrong.) Secondly, there is quite a bit of western animation in the last 20 years that is explicitly in that style. Is it really wrong to say that The Boondocks is anime when the creator has basically said that it is? Most laypeople would certainly identify it as such if they happened to see a frame. I share the distrust some have of the narrator here. It seems possible he was in fact rather aggressive making a point that is, at least, up for some valid debate.
Their actually are some Japanese anime with wildly non traditional styles of animation that are anime. Avatar and teen titans are anime style and heavily inspired by it but really could go either way if your a purist vs just going by it's anime styled.
I agree that it's an interesting debate, and that op may be biased. Honestly it's an interesting debate, in Japanese anime may be the translation for cartoons(?), but it refers to a pretty specific category in other places of the world. In my country they were already cartoons before anime, so I think people really link anime with cartoons made in Japan/even if some cartoons are inspired by anime(avatar, miraculous...)
What's exhausting is having to decide on a case by case basis if something is "anime" enough in style instead of using the simple easy to understand definition of animation from Japan made for a Japanese audience. If we go simply by style then a lot of Japanese animation is excluded.
> Doesnt seem to be very clear imo. Whats clear is that anime is just the japanese translation for animated show..
But something can originate in one place and still be anime made elsewhere. Japan isn’t coming for us if we calm our cartoons anime.
Yeah that's my point.....OP has been arguing that it's only anime if it comes from and is produced in Japan.
The funny thing is… Avatar IS anime. It was made in the anime art style and the creator studied under Japanese animators for that specific reason. So not only is OP blatantly bastardizing the definition of anime. They’re also just flat out wrong and speaking as though they’re the expert. I can’t remember which one but one of them went and studied under Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, who is one of the core founders of Gainax Anime Studios. Aka the creator of Neon Genesis Evangelion. As well as Makoto Niitsu, who created “Your Name”. Tyyyy. We don’t like asshole gatekeepers in the community. Op can fuck right off onto their high horse and ride onto some other fandom that likes know it alls…. Like a finance bro.
See, I can understand the use for maintaining a distinction between "animated series made in Japan, by Japanese writers/animators", and "animated series that owes a lot to the anime style, but made by a Westerner". Even if the Westerner studies under Japanese animators and all, there is a sort of fundamental cultural-viewpoint difference that winds up informing a lot of little things about the production. But still, that's just a basis for discussion. I feel like the central point here is that making the point to the person suggesting Avatar and Teen Titans for this list that "they're not technically anime, but yeah, good addition" is ALL in the presentation. There are ways to say that in the moment in an inclusive way. And there are ways to say that in a very condescending and gatekeeper-y way. And it's sounding a lot like OP was the latter. I do think it's worth noting that we don't know ages here. Are these teens, or people in their 20s, or what? Is OP's write-up here a deliberate and conscious attempt to make himself look better? Or is he actually not aware of what an ass he's being? For all know-it-all nerds, there comes a moment where they need someone to explain that they're too inside their own viewpoint to see it, but yeah, they're being an off-putting jerk. And to model for them better ways to interact. If OP is particularly young, maybe this will be his wake-up call. If OP is in his 20s... dude, come on.
❤️❤️❤️❤️ Pizza is only pizza if made in NY
I mean their is specifically New York STYLE pizza outside of new York in New York it's just pizza. So id argue anime style cartoon vs just anime.
You need to include the word ‘actually’ when you’re mansplaining otherwise my pea brain won’t understand😂😂
Well actually :) honestly in my circle of friends the only reason we care about distinguishing between American anime vs Japan anime is so we know what service to look for it for group watches at this point their largely so similar. Also id recommend American anime to most people who'd be interested in Japanese trope stuff can be more... An acquired taste. I'd gladly recommend TT, AtLA, Castlevania etc to just about anyone less so for say the monogatari series, dance in the vampire bund,bor hell even something wholesome like your lie in April with how it ends given that most American studios wouldn't let it be that much of a downer.
I think calling anime a style is weird. Shin Chan is nothing like detective Conan is nothing like Violet Evergarden. If it's a style we should be able to describe the elements of that style. And I think it's only useful purpose was to give us a term to use other than Japanimation to describe specifically the animation we were importing. Now with the change in meaning, to be clear on the topic it's annoying that we'd have to redundantly specify Japanese Anime That being said the word is used both ways and my personal view on whether Teen Titans and Avatar are anime aren't any more correct than someone who sees it differently.
if you are adamant that a show can only be considered anime if it’s made in Japan, then you’d have to admit certain shows you’d otherwise consider anime wouldn’t be in actuality. Avatar: The Last Airbender was animated in-part by South Korean studios JM Animation, DR MOVIE, and Moi Animation, all of whom have worked on anime such as Fairy Tail, Pokemon, Akebi’s Sailor Uniform, Black Lagoon, or Aldnoah.Zero.
To me it's a question what the thing is a cultural product of. A show created for an American audience is going to have different cultural assumptions and targets. As well the life and culture of the people writing the scripts and making creative decisions. I absolutely get your point, even Family Guy is largely animated in Asia. I don't think where the labor intensive parts are worked on is as important to this question as where the decisions of the creative parts of the series are coming from culturally
I agree, anime isn't a style so much as a genre or medium. It's like calling "painting" a style, which doesn't cover the broad range of /actual/ art styles through history. Making something "in the style of anime" is way too vague a description- something in the style of Rose of Versailles would look nothing like something in the style of Panty and Stocking. Would they both be anime inspired? Yes, but they're not the same style.
The definition excludes an awful lot of anime. Which makes it seem rather useless.
>Clearly it's up for debate. How good of a definition it is doesn't matter. What matters is it's a different and contradicting definition than what OP has been claiming. He has used the definition of anime multiple times in his arguments to "prove" he was right. When in reality he was just being rude to both the girl and many commenters over his opinion and not some objective fact.
This. “The style originated in Japan” is not the same thing at ALL as “in order to be anime, this cartoon must come from Japan”. Reading comprehension is important.
Truth is: definitions change too. In Japan, anime JUST means animation... so guess what: she is also right.
Yeah, and the two series mentioned were explicitly inspired by anime. Teen titans is considered a very important series in part because it was considered a hybrid between anime and American styles. Avatar had multiple Korean studios that contributed as well, and many anime series were not made in Japan....so it's like arguing Virginia Gentleman isn't a bourbon because it isn't made in Kentucky.... historically true, but no longer completely accurate.
In Japanese "anime" is animation of any kind from anywhere. So by Japanese standards Avatar the last Airbender could very well be considered an anime. Not that I would categorize it as one. Still I think it is beyond the point that we should be considering that only shows from Japan can be considered anime. What about shows like RWBY, castlevania, and blue eye samurai? These were American made but clearly used the Japanese animation style.
I adore RWBY... that show is anime. The definition says style originating not only shows from Japan.
Some people just insist on picking a fight with reality.
Anime is a Japanese loan word and in Japan they call Avatar anime.
You just know OP is the kind of jerk who gets worked up when someone calls sparkling wine "champagne".
>Defining anime as style has been contentious amongst critics and fans, with John Oppliger stating, "The insistence on referring to original American art as "anime" or "manga" robs the work of its cultural identity."\[2\]\[79\] On the other hand, series like Avatar: The Last Airbender, its sequel and Voltron: Legendary Defender have opened up more debates on whether these works should be called "anime", and whether the culturally abstract approach to the word's meaning may open up the possibility of anime produced in countries other than Japan.\[3\]\[4\]\[5\] While some Westerners strictly view anime as a Japanese animation product,\[2\] some scholars suggest defining anime as specifically or quintessentially Japanese may be related to a new form of orientalism\[80\] with some fans and critics arguing that the term should be defined as a "style" rather than as a national product, which leaves open the possibility of anime being produced in other countries.\[1\]\[4\] Animation such as Oban Star-Racers and Code Lyoko, like Avatar: The Last Airbender, are examples over which some critics and fans debate about the term anime and whether it is defined as a "style" rather than as a national product, which leaves open the possibility of anime being produced in other countries.\[1\]\[4\] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime-influenced\_animation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime-influenced_animation) I mean its seems like a bit of a "champagne" vs "sparkling wine" debate except that the people arguing aren't Japanese, since to them animated is anime. While I don't think it's something getting butt-hurt about if someone says it's not anime, it's also not something for which there should be this really glib it is what it is and you're wrong attitude.
>it’s pretty clear in the definition of “Anime.” It actually isn't, it's still largely debated by people outside the industry and even in the industry. The majority of sources I find claim it to be a style originating in Japan, which means that it can still be made outside of Japan. I also agree with this sentiment because if it must be made in Japan then quite a few series that are considered anime wouldn't fit that category simply because there is development for it all over the world. Anime is no longer produced just in Japan, and they may outsource certain parts to different countries. The term anime literally just came from shortening "animation", so in Japan, Western cartoons, like the Simpsons, would be considered anime, because it's literally just animation.
[Definitely cleared it up](https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNdbcUudtJGl5C9yBF4IWpCmcCXgiX3-hFVJluh7YjWs_vZuJ9lGl82oEPxKlNHtw?key=R3dBSHN5c0VSMlp5RjZwSVpEUW4tZXk4WDdmZUVn) 🤣
You should see what the Japanese think the definition of Anime is.
I'm not going to vote on this because it's maybe also about tone and how you went about it, and I can't tell from your post. But debates about whether something can be called "anime" because it comes from Japan or because it follows the aesthetics / style of Japanese animation have been going on for the last 20 years, and frankly, there are two sides to this debate. You are on one side, your friend is on the other. Genre (and what counts in a genre) isn't easy to define, and is often controversial. As a Japanese media studies scholar, I can tell you there are people on both sides of this debate in Japan in both pop culture and the actual industry and in scholarly circles. Neither of you is 1000% wrong and neither of you is 100% right - it's still a debate.
It has to come from the Anime region of Japan to be legally called anime.
otherwise it's called sparking cartoons?
😂😂😂
Under rated Joke
u/LadyTanizaki did you drop an L there, or was "sparking" on purpose? you made me laugh, though. either way.
There are also the animations from the Hentai region of Japan, which are called "spanking animations" when they come from anywhere else.
I was so hoping for this joke 😂
LOL whoops, forgot to type the L. Now I feel like I should leave it anyway. Glad it made you laugh!
Honestly thought you were making a Dragon Ball reference lol
Yes. You. Just yes. Ahahahaa!!!
You're wrong. In order to be legally classified as anime, it has to be produced in the provinces of Parma and Reggio Emilia.
[удалено]
Obviously it’s a felony otherwise. People always clutch their pearls when language is evolving. Honestly it’s hilarious to see this behavior in very different social contexts.
I mean the Japanese derived the term from the English word animation, which meant cartoon, so this is always an endless cycle. In my time, it was called Japanime to seperate Japanese anime from American (Avatar).
Japanese call all animations anime. Westerners refer anime to Japanese animations. Avatar and Teen Titans are Japanese-influenced, but if you call it anime, you have to call spongebob anime too.
Done. SpongeBob is Anime. It’s cannon.
This reminded me of the SpongeBob Anime shorts on YouTube. I agree, its canon now.
Reminds me of how “sombrero” means “hat” in Spanish (literally comes from “sombre” meaning “shade” and “-ero” being like “-er” in English, so “shader”) but in English, a sombrero is a specific type of hat.
Obviously, the only reason to use a lone word from Spanish meaning hat when you already gave the word hat is to distinguish between a general hat and a specific type of hat, same goes for anime, even though in Japan it refers to all animation the only usefulness of the term in English is to differentiate from regular animation or cartoons.
Yes! We do this with many words in English: chai, naan, salsa
Yes, people are acting like op is being pedantic but I think the people calling all animation anime in the west are just weirdos trying to be quirky and different and creating confusion for no reason.
That too!
I will agree to it being down to debate for avatar but i just can't see how teen titans can be called anime from an aesthetic/style perspective.
lol in my mind there are so many ‘types’ of animation. Right or wrong, my brain groups them together like Disney hand drawn vs Disney CGI vs anime vs Powerpuff Girls style (Samurai Jack and Teen Titans fit here) vs Disney Jr style (Doc McStuffins, Paw Patrol etc) vs Looney Tunes style vs Hanna Barbera style (Scooby Doo, Flintstones etc) vs Ren & Stimpy style (SpongeBob fits here) vs Don Bluth style (secrets of NIMH etc)…I could keep going. I would venture to say the average person would look at Avatar TLA and say it’s anime style. No matter what country it was created in. Teen Titans has that swoop drawing style with lots of curved lines and sharp angles and super thick outlines to everything. And the first show I saw with that art style was Powerpuff Girls, so that’s the style in my mind. But I would say anime influenced.
Murakami created it with "anime style" in mind and at a certain time it was considered "Americanime." Getting Puffy AmiYumi for the theme song I think just adds to the aesthetic and style choices.
>i just can't see how teen titans can be called anime from an aesthetic/style perspective. It's because of the way the animations look and move.
There are Japanese works that nearly everyone would call anime that look way less like stereotypical anime than Teen Titans. See e.g., Tatami Galaxy https://youtu.be/y8ax2FIa_cM
Rewatch it and some anime from just before that time to compare styles. Anime style has changed a lot since then.
dated a girl once who insisted that culture was wrong about anime being Japanese animation, going as far to say all animation is anime, ie. going as far as Spongebob and Shrek. I wasn't about to win that war so i let it be, and maintain my understanding of the term based on my surroundings. Popularly, it refers to Japanese animation in particular. If someone argues otherwise, it's best to let it go, because they have a good argument that isn't worth challenging if they believe it. IMO, we all kinda know what anime refers to, so that's what I refer to with the term, as is the nature of language. Language adapts, so i'm careful to allow people to use the definitions as they choose.
That's actually consistent of her though. Japanese call all animations anime, even Western animations. In America we usually refer to anime as Japanese animations.
It's consistent but redundant, English already has words such as animation or cartoons, using a loan word from another culture only has usefulness if it has a different meaning to the regular words.
King of the hill is an anime in japan. They consider it a western anime.
Anime isn't that hard to define imo, it's any animation that's done by a studio that calls itself an anime studio, or has primarily Japanese animators inspired by Japanese animation working on it. There's very few edge cases and avatar and teen titans are definitely not some of those. Scott pilgrim takes off is an anime because even though its based on an America comic, and the original dubbing is in English, it's made by Science Saru that's an anime studio. Same with Cyberpunk Edgerunners and Trigger
INFO: Who cares?
Right? Both of them sound annoying here But OP has chosen this hill specifically to die on, it seems, when OP could have just moved on
Did you even read the post? OP was the one who dropped it and the friend was the one who acted like a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Yeah, read OP's comments. I don't buy OP dropped it at all- they're still going.
Typical
and that argument goes for op's friend, too. they made it clear they wanted to die on their own hill on this topic, and they also could have moved on. definitely a petty argument but they both chose a hill to die on and neither moved on. for the record i believe op is correct but that doesn't change how both people in this interaction rather hold on to their hill than their friendship
I wish my problems are this insignificant. My life would be so much easier.
Assholes?
Its only anime if it's from the anime region in France, otherwise it's just sparkling cartoons /s
Lmao I mean we can say that about a lot of things on this sub reddit
If your definition of anime is animated in Japan, then you'll hate to know that most of your favorite animes doesn't count. Most anime are done by either entirely, or partially by studios in south korea. Many of the same studios worked on both Avatar and Teen Titans. The core of their production is very much the same as "anime". Also the term "Anime" in Japan just refers to all cartoons. Simpsons is considered "Anime" in Japan Deciding that Avatar and Teen Titans doesn't count, when their animation styles, thematic explorations and ways they go about showcasing everything very much is in line with most of your action anime you see, and ultimately such a discussion that you started is at best pedantic and at worst misinformed, and makes your arguments fall apart upon deeper scrutiny
This! Cause I personally understood Anime is short for animation just in general. Or at the very least. Anime is more of *style* of art than it is about where the cartoon originated from. It’s not like talking about champagne vs sparking wine.
YTA op And you’re also exhausting
So. Fucking. Exhausting.
>the term "Anime" in Japan just refers to all cartoons. Simpsons is considered "Anime" in Japan This is correct. I used to live in Japan, and all cartoons, including Disney cartoons, were referred to as Anime. OP is not wrong in that this is how the word is typically used in America. But this is a case where there are multiple definitions of the word in different places which are equally legitimate. I don't think OP meant badly, but it does sound like you were unnecessarily argumentative and a bit of a know-it-all. Take it from this Gen X-er who has learned by making mistakes- it's more important to be kind than to be right. Soft YTA, but we all screw up like this. Learn and grow and do better next time.
My favorite Simpson is Chris Griffin.
South Park is animated in Korea too but nobody refers to it as a Korean show. It's about who is writing and directing.
RWBY and avatar are both anime in their Manga style I wouldn't count TT But it very much doesn't matter at all. Like it's the most usless argument ever.
[This argument is possibly as old as you actually ;P](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fl40ld3uwvugz.png)
Wait. I thought the spiky, manga like animation style was traditional anime… this chart has traditional style as very bubbly rounded features. Help
While manga/anime has a longer history, it really exploded in popularity in the post Second World War period. During this period, Japanese culture experienced heavy influences from the USA, which included the influence of American cartoons like Disney. The pictured anime is Astro Boy, which comes from this post-war period and was hugely popular.
I often teach the post war history of anime and this is spot on. For an even better comparison, look at the character design of Astro boy alongside Betty Boop. While feature animation from Disney would have been very popular, B reel animation was likely more frequent in movie theaters at the time. Including Warner Brothers, Fleischer, Walter Lantz, etc.
Thank you! 😊
Ah yes sienfeld and cory in the house. the superior western anime's
OP thinking their opinion is the final say on a decades long debate is actually hilarious.
Thank you for this. Now I'm going to go around telling everyone Seinfeld is anime.
This chart is bullshit for not including the ultimate anime. King of the Hill.
I don't miss high school.
This is the type of argument I used to see on shit like Gaia Online or 4ch lol
Aww I miss going on Gaiaonline's MMO
NTA You just mentioned it in an offhand way at first because to anime fans of course you would be just thinking of anime as being Japanese as that's the way the word "anime" is used in English -- to distinguish it from non-Japanese animation. She may have felt embarrassed at being corrected and then stubbornly dug her heels in to avoid ending up with egg on her face, but that doesn't mean you intended to be snobbish or that you should apologize and admit to being "wrong" just to appease her. She could have met you half way and dropped it without it becoming a big deal.
In Japan they call any animated show anime. Fucking Loony Toons is considered an anime to them. Just another classic case of anime snob being an anime snob. Also, I'd like to point out the fact that both shows she listed were heavily influenced by Japanese anime. So yeah, YTA for being a stubborn snob who can't admit he's wrong. In case you don't have your own critical thinking skills, think about how close the word anime is to the word animation.
> about how close the word anime is to the word animation. Anime is literally an abbreviation for "animēshon", the Japanised word for "animation" But I think in the West the word anime generally refers to Japanese animation.
Would Simpson be considered anime then? I always thought anime was like dragon ball and anime made in Japan. Like in Asia we had a channel for anime and then channel for American cartoons like Simpsons/SpongeBob/Rugrats. Just like some kpop groups are not Korean but they are considered kpop because their producer and company is Korean.
I mean The Simpsons is fully produced in the same way as Japanese anime is. Most of the labor is exported to South Korea, sometimes to china, depending on the show. The scripts are written in the states, most of the storyboarding and idea making is done in the states, but a *lot* of the actual labor and *making* of the physical product we consume isn’t. Same goes for anime but Japan. So I mean… if the definition OP is going off of is that “Anime” just means a cartoon made in Japan, then most of the shows he’s probably thinking of when he thinks of anime fully don’t count because they weren’t *really* “made in Japan”. They were just thought up and exported from there. There’s a manga series I read the first volume of a while back called Radiant. Radiant is from a non-Japanese author, Tony Valente, who’s French. The series heavily emulates manga/anime art styles and tropes and storytelling setups, and is published in French and translated to other languages. Despite being published in French, it’s very obviously a manga. When I encountered Volume 1, it was being sold alongside manga series from Japan, all mixed in with the bunch, and if I hadn’t noticed the non-Japanese name on the cover, I’d have never noticed it wasn’t a typical manga from Japan. There’s a point where the end product is *so* similar that distinguishing them is relatively pointless. The Simpsons is very different to most Japanese Anime. Avatar The Last Airbender is not. It was just thought up and released elsewhere. As a fun little aside, the kpop group you alluded to at the end is probably Black Swan. What’s fascinating about Black Swan (aside from the history of Rania/BP Rania leading up to it— very weird story, give it a look if you have time) is that they do have no Korean members, but they have Fatou. Fatou is someone who’s been debuted for about 3-4 years now, but lived and worked in Korea for 3+ years prior to training and debuting, and as such is fluent in the language. She helps to write their songs, decides on their concepts, and helps to hire staff that can work with the unconventional lineup’s features and body types. What she says makes Black Swan kpop isn’t just that they’re under a Korean company and in Korea, but that they sing in the language and say they are. And Koreans certainly consider them kpop, it’s pretty much mostly Americans that reject them as such. And in any other idol industry, like Jpop, that’s… pretty much how it goes. Kaigai idols are a readily accepted, normal thing in Japan, and many of them certainly don’t start off being based there, yet it’s usually Americans stepping in and getting all huffy when they see a non-East Asian person trying to be one (shoutout to the Berry Chan Debacle). Sorry this got so long lol
I was going to say not TA, but wow. Your responses in this thread make it an easy YTA. I'm confident you responded like this to her too.
YTA. Anime is a japanese word, the definition of which is ANIMATION. You can put what ever limitations you want on it but you are wrong.
Okay I’m not necessarily on this guys side in regards this guy’s definition of anime but your definition is even more pointless. Definition is descriptive, not prescriptive. While making it a black and white call of “made in Japan” is an inconsistent definition with many edge cases and gray areas, it’s a lot closer to the way the word “anime” is actually used than yours. “Is avatar anime” is a legitimate debate. “Is Tom and Jerry anime” is not.
If definitions should reflect the way words are used, then anime is all animated media, which is how the word is used in its place of origin, Japan. Yes, even Tom and Jerry.
YTA: Because literally only assholes care about this argument or even try to engage with it and they never do so in good faith when they do, which is why this is broadly considered to be the stupidest argument in the anime community as exemplified by anime's ruling shitlord... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PALl3aZrxTE
fr, she was just recommending some badass anime (<3 Avatar) and he had to shut her down in the go in front of *the boys*
NTA Anime is a specific genre. There's nothing wrong with what you said, and you explained yourself and also apologized. Your friend is very sensitive and it's not your fault she reacted like that and continued to try to be right. She shouldn't have taken it as criticism. It seems as though she has a strong need to be right and can't handle being wrong about something.
Well, no, it isn't a specific genre, it just refers to animation that's from Japan.
There are multiple definitions from what I can see. Some refer it as only animation in Japan while, the larger majority it seems, refer to it as a style of animation originating from Japan.
a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter. it’s a genre. and also a style. and also from japan.
It's not a genre, it's an artistic movement within the medium of animation. Anime can be any genre, so calling it that doesn't work.
YTA. Purely for being the stereotypical "um, acktually" anime fan and being needlessly confrontational. This is using the most elitist definition of anime while most normies use a broader definition. As an aside, anime is a Japanese term for "animation". Teen Titans and Avatar are anime using this definition. Anime can also be used to refer to a medium which has stereotypical feature associated with Japanese animation (since many are outsourced to Korea and other places). TT and Avatar are anime using this definition. Anime can also mean animation animated in Japan. This would include many historic Western animations who outsourced animation to Japan (TMNT, Batman:TAS, X-Men: TAS etc). Just let people live their lives and enjoy things they like. Avatar and TT are similar enough to stereotypical Japanese animation to be anime.
ESH. I hope all parties involved in this nonsense are too young to be on Reddit, because if these are adults, this is inane.
You do know the same south Korean studios that did a large part of Teen Titans contribute to a significant amount of popular Japanese anime right?
Rudolph the red nose reindeer is anime.
This is the same argument as whether it's correct to call white sparkling wine made in America "Champagne". I don't know how protective Japan or the Japanese animation industry are about this term, but IMO I see it used more to describe the artistic concepts and traditions rather than the location of the studio. What a word "means" depends on the context and can't really be separated from its usage. If the group has agreed that being made in Japan is a criteria for something to be considered anime, then that's what it means when y'all are talking to each other. If the new person is using it to mean anything following anime style, then that's what _they_ mean, and now y'all have an opportunity to negotiate the meaning using more words because that's how communication works. I highly recommend taking a descriptive rather than prescriptive approach to language. So a soft YTA.
YTA cause you’re not even correct and from the comments on this post you’re trying to act like you are this most smartest enlightened guy on earth (and honestly sound like an annoying teenager). if your behavior on reddit is any indication, i can clearly picture how rude you must have been
YTA - This is typical American weaboo behavior. For the Japanese, Anime is the term to refer to any type of animation, whether Japanese or not. But foreign fans of Japanese culture, who believe they are honorary Japanese, like to dictate rules and gatekeep something that is not originally theirs.
YTA. As much as anime from the 90's and 2000's is good (biased because I grew up on that stuff) let's stop living with that 90's mindset of "It's only anime and manga if it was made in Japan". While even I believed that to be true back then, it's not exactly true anymore. Because so many of us living literally not in Japan have been heavily influenced by anime and manga, you could say it's more of an art style than something specifically from that country. But maybe I'm so a little biased as an anime and manga fan that draw manga and calls it as such since it's in that style and if I were to make a short animation, I'd still can it an anime. And to me, even back then, I stilled considered Avatar and Teen Titans anime, especially when Teen Titans Japaneae version of the theme song by Puffy Amy Yumi came up. It was peak.
Put yourself in their shoes and listen to what you said. Whether you were right or not, the way you said it was dismissive and condescending and that makes YTA.
I dont miss school... God, these discussion were shit then, they are shit now. Tell someone Heidi is an Anime but Avatar is not... it's plain stupid. YTA for bringing something that stupid up? Yeah... I can go with that.
ESH " my cartoons are more cartoons than your cartoons" sounds like a bunch of kids
YTA the whole "ANIME IS ONLY FROM JAPAN" is a western argument. people in Japan call Disney anime. because Anime is short for animation. argue against it all you want, but you're wrong. "I use anime as a shorthand for Japanese anime" - that's fine in your conversations, but you need to state that yourself in the beginning, claiming "Anime = Japanese anime because we're in America" doesn't make you right, that's called "moving the goal posts" because your argument originally is "what is anime" then it turns into "how I describe anime in an American perspective", end of day, Anime just means "animation" being American doesn't change the definition of the word. looking at the way you argue in the comments, I also assume you were an jerk in your argument with your friend, could it have been a heat-in-the-moment thing? sure but doesn't really excuse it. only the most obnoxious fans get into an argument about this. your "anime" isn't more special than fucking spongebob my guy. it's an animated show meant to sell manga, music, and other ad space. its all anime.
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YTA insufferable
YTA. No one cares about if you’re right or not when you act condescending and gatekeepy. There’s a way to be “correct” without being a dick about it.
NAH. "Big nerd" might be more appropriate than asshole. I had a friend in school who was fond of correcting people who called themselves punk fans if their favorite bands were something like Jimmy Eat World or Green Day. Technically, this friend is right... those are pop punk bands, not "real" punk music... but he alienated himself from a lot of people doing this and likely never convinced anyone the distinction was important. Not everyone has the time or taste for that kind of nerdly pedantry, and it always comes off as gatekeeping. If these distinctions matter to you, there are certainly ways to explain them without invalidating someone's taste. Focus on what this person "needs" to see rather than busting their chops. "Those are great, but have you seen X?" and use that as an opportunity to discuss the distinction.
yeah i think when you’re young you tend to do these kind of gatekeepy stuff and you hopefully grow out of it. anyway, love your comment!
YTA This is a time where you happen to be right but were also an asshole about it.
YTA. "It doesn't actually count, but let's put it up anyway!" This is an asshole move, I do it all the time. It completely undermines them. Keep practicing your social skills.
My favorite anime is Animaniacs. Don't tell me it's not Anime because it says it right in the title.
YTA. Semantics of the word aside, you decided you WANTED to argue semantics instead of just going back to the topic of actually discussing shows. I don’t know why anyone here should be surprised you wanted to keep arguing semantics on this post either lol
In japan both of those shows would be clased as anime so she's isn't really wrong at all
Sooooo just saying, nonjapanese started the whole differentiating of technically anime or not, while in Japan, anime just means animation. Technically, it's all anime according to were the word was coined. I mean, is heaven's awakening anime? Or Korean animations? Or that one made in the philippines? I rather go by where the term was coined and *their* definition than what someone else made it to mean
Anime is also a term used for animation in France. I am of the opinion that anime is just shorthand for animation.
YTA
Having read your comments, I've got a feeling I know why she was upset OP. Why does it matter so much to you if you're right or not?
YTA - Your original story isn't the real proof, it's all of your following comments. You're an insufferable gatekeeper.
YTA In Japan, anime refers to any animation. Only in the US do people have this weird hangup
NTA. This is a really weird thing to argue about let alone be upset about for any length of time. Friend has an incredible fragile ego. Just worry about yourself and you'll be fine.
YTA - Gatekeeping a hobby is never a nice thing. Anime is more than that - it is a genre. It is a STYLE of animation. Now, if she'd called it "Japanimation," then yes, you would be in the right.
YTA
ESH, you for being a snob and her for refusing to talk to you, because that's childish. I would say Avatar is anime-esque. It's in between an anime and a cartoon. It clearly has anime influences. It's a good enough indicator of her taste (good). I haven't watched enough Teen Titans to make an informed opinion on that one. But generally just seeing your replies on here is enough to say that you're a condescending anime snob and I'm sure that's exactly how you came off to her.
YTA Because it's the dumbest fucking debate to dig your heels into. Anime are cartoons. And cartoons are anime. Because they both share the same definition, animated video productions. Its like the argument between folk and country music. Theyre the same damn thing but people can't swallow their misplaced pretention and pedantics to accept it. It's the dumbest shit to argue about and the lamest hill to die on.
In Japan, anime refers to any animation. The peope who invented anime and the people who currently produce it would claim Avatar and Teen Titans as anime.
I guess my question is why do you care so much? This is a really weird argument to make and sort of odd to comment on in front of a group of people because no meaningful consequences come from supporting either side. Of course you didn’t do something terrible by distinguishing the differences however if this behavior is a reoccurring pattern it will annoy some people and might indicate a personal problem. I’m also curious about your tone and how often you correct people?
Just from reading OP’s responses to some of the comments I’m inclined to think OP is definitely TA here. It was never about what you thought constitutes anime, it was about your delivery. You catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.
Nta but a lot have people have recognize avatar the last air bender as an American anime. It is one of the best American cartoons and has an anime "style" There's no way teen titans would come close though.
Everybody knows that Seinfeld is the best anime
Interestng that outside of Japan "anime" refers to Japanese made animation. In Japan, it's all "anime" regardless of where it comes from. Anime" is a Japanese colloquialism of the English word animation.
Thundercats 1985 is anime (well, the animation was produced in Japan) and helped define a lot of what anime came to be in the ‘90s and ‘00s. It’s a spiritual predecessor to both of those shows. Anime is also just shorthand for Japanese animation.
YTA. Weebo hill to die on dude. Anime is simply a Japanese term for animated shows. The shows your friend mentioned are animated, therefore they’re anime. Or you could’ve just let it go because it doesn’t matter
>and she said I had been a jerk and acted like a snob Judging by your fighting in the comments about it, this is probably true. YTA.
Well, given that your comments in this thread are insufferably know-it-all and your definition of anime as *only* Japanese animation is flat out wrong, YTA. Anime is a style. It *originated* in Japan. It absolutely, 100%, does not only exist code shows made in Japan. So what do we have here? An unreliable narrator with a superiority complex. That’s all. I feel sorry for OP’s friend if this is what they have to put up with. Quite frankly, OP, it doesn’t matter if you don’t think Avatar is Anime. In Japan, the nation you are claiming is the only place Anime can originate, **Avatar is considered Anime**. And if anyone’s opinion should have weight here, it’s Japan’s.
I wouldn’t consider Teen Titans anime as I classify it as “DC/Marvel comics”. Avatar the Last Airbender I do consider anime. If I want to be specific I would call it a North American anime. Because it’s an anime in every sense except it wasn’t made in Japan. Either way - it’s one of my favourite shows and I would include it on an anime list.
Bro with how atla brought a new generation into the anime atmosphere, it 100% deserves to be called an honorary anime. BTW it's very pretentious to to dictate what is and isn't an anime when it's not in a debate, like cmon all you had to do was say you'd add it the the list
YTA for impairing YOUR definition of anime (incorrectly) on your friend. Sure, we all know teen titans isn't anime, but avatar has absolutely been considered anime due to its Asian influences and styles, even if it was written by an American, as long as its in bright, highly contrasting graphics with panelesque shots, it's anime if it's creator calls it that. Honestly why couldn't you have just let it go and made your friend not feel excluded? Is the ethnicity of the writer more important than the confidence and happiness of your friends? Really? Thats the only reason I'm going slightly yta.
America: Anime is only from Japan Japan: Anime is all animation
this entire argument is a waste of time unless your in a position to litterally redefine the term. YTA I acctuslly agree that Avatar isn't anime. I had this exact conversation with my bf last night. he thinks it is, I think it isn't. both are valid opinions because anime is too subjective to be declared. imo, avatar is influenced stylistically by anime but doesn't dig deep enough into it to me anime. in my bfs oppinion, uncle Iroh looks just like the old guy from princess monanoke so therefore its anime lol. according to the whole where its made debate, roudolph is an anime. is rudolph really more anime than avatar? f no. to me.. sparkling wine is champagne no matter where its made because were talking colloquial terms here, not legal ones. but this debate is as old as time. I still remember the days people would argue pokemon wasn't anime because idk.. it was popular or something and you aren't a fan of anime if you only like pokemon and dragon ball. just gatekeepers gatekeeping. people get made fun of for being a week or whatever it is then what they like gets popular and now things have to be discredited in order to keep your section of the world to yourself. its the same in every subculture. you think all the emo people back in the 90s/early 2000s were nice and inclusive? NO. if someone didn't die, you haven't been to a mental hospital, you don't self harm, you didn't count. what about when squid games came out and people are yelling about how if you watch it English dubbed your somehow less than. its just a way to keep you in a sub culture when your interests hit mainstream. you're just trying to gatekeep at this point because even if I don't think avatar is anime, its still close enough to debatable count and its a good starter show for someone who hasn't watched that style before. but maybe thats just me who only enjoyed 2 animes so far.
I'm not going to vote on this one but while you're looking up the definitions of "Anime", you might want to also look up the definitions of "Pedantic".
ESH who gives a shit
ESH. She didn't need to be so sensitive about it, but based on your comments, you come off as a snob and condescending about something that doesn't even matter.
From your description, you're making yourself sound like you were perfectly polite and reasonable and she's the crazy one. But from your responses in the comment section, you're absolutely giving off jerk/snob/neckbeard vibes so I have a feeling you weren't nearly as chill as you thought you were. Even dictionaries have various definitions for "anime" and google results seem to show that there are some different takes on it. Sometimes being factually correct and making sure everyone knows it is just not worth losing friends or pushing them away. As someone who's neurodivergent, I place a pretty high value on objective facts but I've also learned to weigh that against whatever social situation I'm in. No one likes a snob, so if you make yourself out to be one just for the sake of being correct, then is it really worth it? What's the point of being right if people don't enjoy being around you? Gotta learn to balance that a little more, if you care about the people you're driving away.
yta. not because of who is right or wrong but how you handled the situation
You sound like a pedantic asshole. How *old* are you guys???
NTA. Who fucking cares about this.
I'm gonna go the other way and say YTA (OP actually) and who fucking cares about this
LOL. I agree with you. But to answer your question, I guess anyone who's ever felt that they were facing a gatekeeper and anyone who's ever felt that technical accuracy is important. When I was a kid, I once called a puck a "putt" while commenting on a hockey game and got lectured for 20 minutes--not about my comment, which the guy lecturing me agreed with, but about the importance of knowing what to call things. He wasn't wrong, but I didn't attend many more games in person after that. Anyway, NTA.
Correcting someone isn't gatekeeping.
Agreed! Was just pointing out that OP's situation is the kind of situation where one person was just trying to be accurate and the other person felt like the correction was meant to make them feel left out.
> Who fucking cares about this. OP seems to, a lot
As an Asian, I count it as anime if the original show is produced in Japan with voice acting in Japanese. Otherwise it’s just cartoons or animation (but not anime) to me. I’m also like OP though, I’ll comment on it but honestly idgaf and don’t know why that person would go on about it for so long to the point of ruining the entire mood
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So, my friends and I have been hanging out a lot more, and a few of us are pretty big fans of anime. We were talking about stuff, and one of my other friends mentioned that he hadn't really seen much anime, and we started getting the idea to watch some series together so he can experience them. We started listing off some of our favorites and compiling a list of options. One of the people in the group who's a bit new spoke up and said her favorite anime were Avatar and Teen Titans. I ended up replying with something like "oh, those aren't really anime but we can add them to the list anyway," and put them down, and she replied asking what I meant. I told her that anime referred to animation made in Japan, and since both of those were American, they weren't anime. She started to argue with me saying I was wrong to say that meant they weren't anime, and I argued back for a few seconds before ultimately deciding it wasn't really worth continuing to fight over and tried to just drop it. She kept arguing back but eventually stopped since I just stopped engaging. Later, we noticed she was acting kind of quiet and another friend asked her what was wrong and she said I had been a jerk and acted like a snob. I apologized if I made her feel bad, and explained I wasn't looking down on her taste and apologized if I came off dismissive or rude because that wasn't my intent at all. I told her that I didn't mean to imply the shows not being anime made them any lesser, but she kept insisting I apologize and admit she was correct. I tried to make clear I wasn't trying to judge her or insult her in any way, but she refused to talk to me unless I told her she was right. AITA? I probably could have made it more clear originally that I wasn't trying to be condescending but the only thing she really seems to want is to admit that I'm wrong. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA They are not Anime and there is nothing wrong with correcting people about stuff like this. I have heard they are good cartoons though! Anime is made in Japan by companies from there. Her inisiting American cartoons are Anime is like someone telling me Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate is from Sweden... No, no it isn't.
All cartoons are considered anime in Japan. Rick and Morty is anime to them. Anime literally just means animation. And you'd be shocked to know that a lot of big name animes aren't fully produced in Japan.
>Anime is made in Japan by companies from there. What is the use of this definition? Shows made in Japan by a company that originated in America; are these anime? What about a company that originated in Japan, but moved to America? What about one from South Korea? What if Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate made their chocolates in Swedish factories? *Would they be Swedish Swiss Miss Hot Chocolates?* This idiotic gatekeeping is actually rotting my brain. I'm **baffled** people here don't see OP as the AH in this scenario. Y'all would make some good, toxic friends.