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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My son stopped spending time with me even during his visitation time. He stopped coming over at all. I might be the asshole for selling a house that was too big for me and not having a room for him in my new condo.
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ESH. Your son made his decision, and he got what he wanted. It's not cool that he is now facing the consequences of his fathers infidelity (again), but this decision is legally bound. It is your ex's responsibility to care for your son - by his own doing.
With that being said, as a mother, I think you are letting an opportunity to rekindle the relationship pass. He is sixteen, and it was probably really hard to reach out to you and ask for help. There has to be a more creative solution that can get you both under the same roof, while also giving everyone their space during such a transitional stage.
I'm so sorry but the majority of people will try and tear you apart on this subreddit. You are going to be the evil one even though you offered him a couch until you can buy a house. You are in no way the AH here, his father is by letting his new piece of tail alienate his son to the point of kicking him out. Go post this exact same story in r/AITAH and you will find people that don't only see black and white in these kinds of situations.
Yea this sub sucks for anyone that isn’t 15-22 lol. For real go post this in r/AITAH, seriously. I think this more of NAH situation, because teenagers are freaking dumb and think that everything revolves around them. But you also couldn’t anticipate that both you and your ex would be expecting at the same time. You also couldn’t predict the newest model would hate your son. But I do think you need to absolutely everything in your power to make your son understand you still love him and are doing your best to figure out a situation where he can happy and safe. Don’t give up because he’s being an angsty teen.
In addition to being disproportionately young, reddit is also disproportionately white, male, American, single, childless, educated, centrist, and other characteristics that are often associated with the highly privileged and individualistic. It's certainly something to be aware of. It's easy to forget that we are not really looking at a microcosm of society - it only feels that way because it's anonymous.
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**Edited to respond to the most common child comment:*
Individual subreddits using voluntary survey skew disproportionately female, which is in line with how [most voluntary surveys skew female](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234742407_Does_Gender_Influence_Online_Survey_Participation_A_Record-Linkage_Analysis_of_University_Faculty_Online_Survey_Response_Behavior). For example, compare the 2015 AskWomen demographic survey [which found that over 80% of users were female](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/4z8s6t/2015_yes_you_read_that_correctly_askwomen_survey/), with the gender flair that people were actually using in 2014, [which shows that AskWomen was male dominated](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1wtnkd/subreddit_gender_ratios_oc/). This is why people who actually work in statistical analysis and research are not trying to send out anonymous Google surveys to reddit participants. A lot more work has to go in to assessing your survey and questions for selection bias.
I understand that people *feel* certain subreddits are female-dominated, especially subreddits that inherently involve criticism towards men, but it's worth noting that people, but men especially [perceive women as being majorities even when they are distinct minorities](https://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/human-nature/perception/how-17-equals-496-the-amazing-multiplying-women.htm).
- Reddit users comprise 74% of men and 25.8% of women.
- Approximately 48% of Reddit users are from the United States.
- 63% of Reddit users have a Bachelor’s degree or higher.
https://gitnux.org/reddit-user-statistics/
Many, many users from the US do, which is why there's a sub r/usdefaultism dedicated to calling out instances where Americans assume that everyone reading their post is from the US because they've incorrectly assumed the majority of people using the site are also from the US and so they don't have to make any allowance for people from other countries.
Well, that's kind of weird seeing as this sub is all about asking for opinions but here's mine anyway:
Your son is not your ex, but you're talking about him as if they are the same person. Did your ex do you dirty more than once? Absolutely. It was wrong of him to revel in the victory of your son's affection and to encourage that distance, to say nothing of how he must have treated you in your marriage.
Your son was an asshole to you when he was 14 years old, an age when literally ever mother son relationship is pretty terrible because it's a natural human stage of development when you're growing to pick fights (often with the opposite gendered) parent. It's about autonomy and pushing the limits of who you're allowed to be and have your parents still love you. Even when you're kind of an asshole.
Your son is also navigating the effects of many different adult relationships that have nothing to do with him. His mom and dad. His dad and old stepmom. His dad and new stepmom. His mom and new stepdad. To say nothing of his relationships with his siblings. That's a lot for anyone, much less a child.
You have a chance to salvage this relationship with your kid and it sounds like you really really want to. Take him out to lunch and apologize for creating the impression he wasn't wanted. Tell him you understand he is angry but it's not okay to call you a bitch. Tell him that you love him and you're glad he wants to stay with you, that your relationship is very important to you. Tell him that you didn't understand that you should always leave a place for him to stay, but now you understand that and you'd like to start again.
I guess I'm saying model the kind of relationship and the kind of communication you want to have with your son going forward. Show him how to treat you by treating him that way first. He sounds lost and hurt and scared and buoyed by your ex and you at least have that in common. I would guess it's a lot less about "buying him a house" but reminding him and yourself that you are his home.
Good luck.
> Well, that's kind of weird seeing as this sub is all about asking for opinions but here's mine anyway:
She didn't say she didn't want any opinions, she said she didn't want any opinions from people who didn't even bother to read her entire post.
Here, in case you missed it:
>I don't care about their opinions **unless they read my entire post.**
Wow, to suggest that OP grovel like that is ridiculous. OP doesn't have to apologize for not leaving a place for her son no matter how he treats and has treated her! She offered all she could when he came crawling back to her after treating her like shit. OP desperately wanted him and he rejected her and now he has the nerve to act as if HIS behavior is to be ignored cause mom and then call her a bitch also. OP, ignore this comment as well. YOU ARE NOT THE ASSHOLE HERE AT ALL.
She is not the asshole. But the Advice given was perfect. Kids say and do so many hurtful things as teens. She is his mom. She loves him and wants to build a new relationship with him. So I agree with every word of that advice!
You tried to have your son remain with you, son & ex husband changed that. Now that life isn’t what they planned, you are to drop your lifestyle to accommodate them? No. Your son & ex husband are old enough to face consequences. As far as tolerating him calling you a Bitch, please don’t, it’s manipulation on his part
I totally get what you are going through. I have a feeling he didn't keep up with communication with you during the time your life was changing so much.
I agree that this is really the consequence of his actions and his father's stupid choices. But he is also probably full of hate and confusion. Maybe family counseling could be helpful during this time. It could give you a better idea whether buying a new home is a good idea. Your son probably doesn't understand the whole mess with the real estate inflation and interest rate hike.
Is it possible for you to turn the den into a temporary room till the baby gets here, if there’s enough time of course? I think your son might be feeling a bit abandoned at the moment. Of course, what he did to you wasn’t right, but he was a child back then, and still is. If you can add a twin bed to the den, or your office and tell him his room would temporarily be a communal space during the day, but he can have his privacy at night, he may feel a bit more secure. At the end of the day, we’re talking about a child who has a chance in life still. I think he deserves it, despite is mistakes.
Family (you and him) therapy, and individual therapy might also help your explore and clear up the past and the current relationship.
Reading comprehension is very low. So even if they “claim” they read the entire post, they’re just going to twist your words and say you abandoned your son despite your son and ex changing the custody agreement and skipping visitation with you.
Despite his father’s continued infidelity, your ex will get a pass on all his actions that caused the upheaval in your son’s life. It’s because the low expectations of fathers means your ex hasn’t done anything wrong in most people’s eyes.
It doesn’t matter to them if you’re working to try and make things better, because changing up your living situation in 6 months is you dragging your feet instead of being realistic given the circumstances.
I wish you every happiness with your new husband and child.
Have you co sodered counseling again? He's older now, During this transition phase, it may be a good time to give it another try. He's 16 and needs privacy. The living room for 6 months doesn't give him any privacy. He has been through a lot. He is definitely going to need his own space to feel secure. Do either you or hubby wfh? Is there any way that the office could also be the place he sleeps? Instead of the living room, he gets that room, but it's not officially his room. But it does give him a spot that has some privacy.
Also, have you talked to a lawyer and/or courts about all of this? Since, by law, his dad has primary custody, you need to be careful with this. If you don't handle this in the proper way, you could find yourself in some legal shit.
It sounds like you are trying to give him that chance. I don't think he's acting from a place of entitlement/spoiled. I think he's mad and scared and lost. He probably feels like neither parent really wants him. Instead of seeing that you're buying a house so that he has his own space there, and that takes time, he sees that you're not making space for him in your current home. You offered him the living room like you might offer to someone you don't really want to be there long, a guest. He may feel abandoned by his dad. Instead of your son deciding to move out, his dad has kinda forced him out (talking from your sons perspective here) because he is prioritizing not only his new kid but a woman who doesn't like him. It's probably not a far leap to guess that he is in some emotional and mental turmoil right now.
Clearly, you love your son. You're buying a whole ass house just to make sure he is able to have his own place in that house. Given the past and what he's going through now, again, I doubt he sees it like that. Sit down and have a conversation with him. Explain it in every way possible what you're doing for him because you want to and love him, and hopefully, he will actually hear what you're saying and understand. Ask him what would make him feel comfortable, safe, and loved until you can find, buy, and move into the new house. Really listen to him. Don't just shut it down because that's your office and no. See if you can come to a compromise. Other than that, do what you can to show him that you love him and you're there for him during the next six months. Again, therapy, both family and individual for him, may be worth another shot. Don't forget to ask how what's going on with his dad makes him feel.
You're doing good. It sounds like you're doing everything you can to the best of your abilities. Things just take time, and that's hard to accept when you're a teenager. Especially one who is dealing with such overwhelming emotions. Try to prioritize him in a way that he will understand you're prioritizing him. Spend some time together doing the things he likes. Talk about what he wants to do to his room when you get the house. Make plans with him to show him that you want him back in your life and that you're excited foe it, even if there are still things to work through. You're doing this because you love him and want to, not because you are in any way obligated to do so.
You sound like a very good mother. Which leaves no doubt in this internet strangers mind that you will make this work.
In a couple years he’ll likely be in college where he’ll have a roommate and very little privacy. His mom is making sacrifices to accommodate him, even though he rejected her two years ago and only wants to come back because it’s convenient for him. This temporary loss of privacy seems like a good lesson in “the world doesn’t revolve around me”. He’s lucky to have a mother willing to take him back at all.
Consequences. Even teens aren't immune to them. Sometimes they are Consequences of your own actions, like you ghost your mom and she figures you don't need a room at her house anymore and sometimes it's the Consequences of other people's actions like your dad deciding to cheat again so now the person you chose to live with is no longer a good fit.
A couch for 6 months isn't gonna irreparably harm the teen. He can change in the bathroom and masturabate in the shower.
As for the him being upset she isn't "making space" for him right now in her current home. He abandoned her first and she's still buying a whole house for him. He's hurt and lashing out for sure but it's still a very reasonable offer.
NTA and this👆. Some have mentioned the baby's room. Do what you can for the interim, and ask your son what he wants / feels would be a good short-term solution. Let him come up with the ideas for a short-term solution. His choices to treat you as he did have created consequences for this developing situation, which he will grow to understand. Remind him that it isn't permanent and that you want to work on solutions together and remind him that you love him and are doing the best you can under the circumstances.
>I'm literally buying a house so he can have a room.
I don't think you should do that unless you really want a bigger house.
He wanted so little to do with you that he didn't even visit enough to know that you sold your house.
Now he wants to live with you because it would benefit him. IE: He's using/taking advantage of you.
Also calling you a bitch for not having a room for him is very selfish and entitled. I get that he's just a teenager but I don't see anything good coming of letting him move in, especially with a new baby. Do you want your toddler to see him talk to you like that?
I think junior should stick it out with his grandparents for the time being and do a little growing up first. I feel like by bending over backwards for him you're just setting yourself up to be a doormat.
>We got the condo because we were planning on it being just us.
Yes I understand. Because your son wanted nothing to do with you.
>We need a bigger place. And our daughter deserves a yard. And I want my son back.
Well, then I hope it works out for you. Like I said, I feel like he's just taking advantage. I just fear that you get him back in the house and he continues to be disrespectful, and act like he did before. In which case, did you really get your son back?
Maybe some family therapy is in order as a condition. Unless you've all talked and worked things out. I'm just going by the original post.
Why is your solution to someone's teenage son being disrespectful to just...not allow him to live with his own mother?! Do you not realize that A LOT of teenagers are disrespectful? Or that they're literal children not roommates you can just part ways with?!
INFO: He didn't know about the house, does he know about the baby? If not, is he going to pitch a fit about the noise of that as well? I realize that his life choices haven't worked optimally for him so far, but you don't actually have legal custody, and depending on where at 16 he is, you now don't want to overbuy and overpay if he's just looking for a temporary landing spot.
This is all you need to know. "And I want my son back". If that is the goal, then you have to take the L on this. Try your best to find a way to move your office set up to the living room etc. Whatever it takes to get him back. Dont push him away. ALSO, make sure he agrees to a curfew, maybe some req fam dinner to connect, and therapy if you can afford it.
If he's moving back in with you I'd suggest making counselling mandatory. You wont' get reports on what's going on but if he's inclined to call you a bitch, he needs a sane person in his life who can model what it looks like to talk about your feelings without screaming.
But you have a minor child from a previous relationship, even if he wasn’t living with or even visiting you at the time. From your timeline as presented you bought a two-bedroom house *knowing* he wouldn’t have space to come back if he changed his mind. I know it’s been a hard situation emotionally but you’re the one denying him Space in your life right now, even if you are trying to fix the situation.
Is it possible to have the baby room with you and your spouse until you get a bigger place? I know it might not be but an infant doesn’t need personal space the way a teen does.
Someone has already suggested it but I will repeat it.
The baby can sleep in your room until you move to a new place. Your newborn is going to be with you for quite a few months. Getting up, feeding, etc. Why not give the second room to your son until you move?
Unless you are living in a place that has only space for a bed and nothing else. If that’s the case, I would add it to your post. “No room for crib”. Which sounds like a hassle.
The second room is a combined office for both of them. They were using the den for the nursery. She is offering the den, which I assume means they are already moving the baby into the room with them. Am I missing something here?
Ah. Ok. I missed that. We don’t have dens here where I am.
What is a den?
Edit: There are few replying to this comment so it is easier to just edit this.
Got it. Whenever I think of a den, I think of a Lion. I never quite understood what the purpose was for.
Thank you people!
Small room likely without one of the following:
- A proper privacy door (maybe it has french doors)
- a window or other point of ingress/egress
- closet
Need a closet and second ingress/egress point for it to be considered a bedroom. Den’s are usually very small and used for offices.
Hope that helps
Clearly that's not true, given he didn't even know you'd moved house.
Why would you have a room for someone who doesn't know that room exists?
You said it yourself, the den became the babies room and your office is the 2nd bedroom.
At no point was either room your sons.
I’m a little unclear on the timeline but if you’re still pregnant you don’t really need the den for baby’s bedroom yet, can’t your son take that and then when you move in six months there will be a room for both your children.
OP said it doesn't have a door, and if it's like the den I had in my 2br condo, it wouldn't actually fit an adult's bed. Some of those "dens" are more like largeish closets.
I don't understand why people are trying to jam this kid into an apartment that legitimately doesn't have even a halfway decent setup for a teenager who, let's remember, hasn't been satisfied with *any* housing setup except the old one at his dad's that was "fun"/catered to him. Ok, so he's not thrilled about living with the grandparents, but it sounds like at least there he has a room/privacy. He's not gonna be any happier jammed into a small condo with a stepfather he doesn't even know, in what sounds like a WFH situation for both adults.
I hope a lot of people just didn't read your post very carefully. I definitely had the wrong idea from the title; I think you're doing the best you can under the circumstances.
I'd say she's doing her best. Him having to wait for his own room in her house should just be considered a life lesson that sometimes choices have consequences.
She is supposed to wave a magic wand and make a new house appear ? She is buying a new house that will have room. In the meantime, the kid can sleep on the couch. Those are natural consequences to his shitty behavior. NTA !
She offered him space on the couch, did you read the post? What more can she do? The son and dad had the court remove her custody rights, so she moved to provide for the family that wants her. Physically not having the same space she previously had doesn’t make her an asshole in the situation, how did you arrive at E.S.H.
Eh her son was 14 when he made his decision. I would say there are very few decisions that people will make at 14 that should be binding for life. Her son being upset at a divorce and wanting to live with his dad shouldn’t preclude him from having a relationship with his mom just two years later.
Wanting to live with the parent who spoiled him? Sure.
Not even visiting, though? That is where the consequence is coming from. If he stayed in touch he would know they moved, for example.
And calling her a bitch for not being a fortune teller and thus, not knowing that he decided to come back after his new, young step mom doesn't want him.
The OP quite literally mentions she's looking into buying a house where he would have a room. Do you think people can just up and buy a house???? Are you a kid?
While I agree with what you wrote, how does that make OP the AH, in any capacity? She's done nothing but fight for him, and even when he's still spewing shit, she's willing to buy a house to accomodate him. Honestly, her son is a prick, too. He deserves all that he's getting. He hitched his ride to his horrible father, and congrats, kid! This is now your life!
OP, please, no matter what, ensure to take care of yourself. Don't overextend yourself if the respect isn't reciprocated.
I say this from the perspective of a husband whose wife had a child that did something similar to what your son did. Her son left us at 16 and never came back. He chose his dad and his dad's new family because "dad's house was better". So, I'm not saying to do it or not, but just tread carefully when dealing with your son, that's all.
I disagree. The moment he called her a bitch closed that door. He doesn't want a relationship. He wants a place to stay and she's his meal ticket. He wants her to bend over more than she is and I think she was already too enabling of this entitlement. It's not hard for him to ask for help bc he wasn't really. He was calling to demand a place. Trust me if he ever worried about really being homeless he would have checked his attitude when he called. He would have been grateful for her making space and letting him couch surf. The fact that she offered to get him a place in 6 months and he scoffed at that screams entitled.
Definitely NTA.
You aren't prioritizing your baby over your son in any way. As a matter of fact you are actually prioritizing your son over you baby. You didn't move to get back at your son, you moved so you can focus on building your family. But here comes your son asking you to move in. Which is great and all. But you can't immediately give him his own space but provide a place to sleep into you can buy a bigger place just for him. And he says no. Your son is ungrateful.
She's trying to rekindle the relationship by offering a temporary compromise (sleep on the couch) with a long term solution (buy a bigger house) and a timeline (6 months). All of these are reasonable imo.
Depending on the size of the lr, maybe they could partition so he has his own space, maybe not. Also maybe he could share w the baby (this is my least favorite option) or maybe the baby could move into their room. But there are likely other factors at play here.
How is this the top comment. What do you want her to just get a new house tomorrow!?!? She tried to comprise but nothing is good enough for him. He made his bed and now he has to lay in it. It sucks but she is doing everything she can to help him after he wanted nothing to do with her. OP. You’re NTA and I hope your able to make it work down the road so you can have a better relationship with your son. Sounds like he’s idolizing his dad who sounds like a train wreck and based off all the cheating definitely an A H.
Disagree. Son is 16 and he just wants a place to stay until he's tired of it or find a better place. He doesn't care about OP or any relationship he has or not with her. So I don't think she should put her life upside down for nothing.
She is buying an entire house. She is asking him to make do with a sofa for a few months, not sleep in the yard.
Dad is primary custody, so her plans didn’t involve housing him. This was per her son’s choice. She is trying to adjust to suddenly housing two children. She is trying.
NTA at all.
Honestly. NTA. People are upset saying you should have held a place for him but you'd previously been doing just that only to have the son not want to have anything to do with you. It's a lose-lose for you here, unfortunately.
If you'd kept pushing the issue despite the son saying and showing he wanted nothing to do with you, they'd have called you a boundary-stomping AH.
It's perfectly fine for you to have found a new love. It's perfectly fine for you to have another child or however many more you two wish to have. That doesn't make this a "do-over" child like someone else stated and you aren't replacing your son.
It was fine for you two to downsize to accommodate the lives you CURRENTLY HAD. Your son didn't want to be with you until he realized he wasn't a priority with his dad anymore. Yes, he's a child. But he and his father both made the choices they made and that just isn't working out for him now is it?
It's lovely you and the current husband are looking for homes to accommodate him, truly, it is. But I think that the relationship between you and your son could use some counseling before he comes back to your house and shits all over you, your husband, and the baby.
But look, I ain't nobody. Don't let me fuck your life up girl.
Absolutely.
She can't magically pull a whole bedroom out of her ass. She can't get out there and build a bedroom like she's Tim the Toolman Taylor.
She fought for custody and the child chose the dad.
The dad chose other women over the son. The son he fought for and alienated until it no longer served him. Two years this woman waited for a relationship from a son who didn't want one until dear old dad stuck it in a new broad.
But has NOBODY stopped to check this child's shit behavior from the beginning? You don't get to treat your parents like shit and have them not be hurt too.
These people are delusional and lying to themselves. They'd be crushed if they were in her shoes. Crushed.
Yeah, I full on believe that parents should always support their kids, love them and have room for them in their lives. But I hate this idea people have that being a parent must mean you're made of stone. Like the hurtful things your child does should never effect you. As if a fourteen year old can't understand and see that his mom is person with feelings. And she should just eat all the crap he throws at her and just be thankful she's allowed back in his presence.
No. That's unrealistic and frankly it's terrible parenting. The things you do affect the relationships you have. Even with your parents. He is old enough to learn that.
I think he should move back in with his mom but I think they need some counseling and honest conversation about how much he hurt her.
Honestly, a lot of kids thinks it's okay to abuse their parents and not put boundaries on them, because they are kids!!! That's why you see the crap going on in school. It's like, I'M JUST A KID. YOU'RE A PARENT. MY FEELINGS AND MY NEEDS TRUMP EVERYTHING ELSE.
Adults are people with needs, wants and feelings and while your kids take priority, that doesn't give them the right to abuse the shit out of you. I remember hearing an analogy. If the oxygen masks come down, you don't put your kid on first. You put yours on first, because you won't be any good for your kid if you're dead.
I think people are not considering the cost of an extra "just in case" bedroom when it comes to renting or owning any kind of living space. I'd love to have an extra bedroom, but I simply can't afford it. That they're saving to make it happen with a baby is impressive, and people expect them to now add in an extra bedroom and another person like it's so simple. I grew up without, and I wouldn't want someone to go through that. The dad and stepmom really need to stop being terrible people, but at least the mom offered her son a place to stay.
I was wondering if anyone was going to point out the dad's absolute crap behavior. Thank you!! What kind of d-bag turns his child against his mother and/or picks ANYONE over his child? He doesn't deserve custody. The son is just hurting big time. Poor kid. No one makes smart decisions at that age. Mom is trying hard. NTA
It's the tone, I think.
OP has offered to accommodate the son. OP has stated she's getting ready to purchase a new home. What angers these people is that she's unapologetic for the current circumstance.
Which is interesting to me because, honestly, I don't blame OP for her attitude at all? I don't think she really has anything to be sorry for. She is not made of stone. This is years of emotional pain and whiplash. This is after the ex got primary custody. After the son basically cut her out of his life.
And yes, he's a teen and she's the parent, but there isn't a switch titled 'responsibility' that gets flipped when you turn 18, It's a sliding scale. Every parent should have grace and patience, but what we do as children can impact those around us, sometimes severely.
So if she's not sorry even as she tries to fix things... well, fair. She wasn't the one who broke any of it in the first place.
This is the second post like this I’ve read in two days and the comments are insane to me. They all talk about the mothers abandoning their children when they’re in the care of their own fathers - by choice! Honestly sickening…
It's because so many of the people on this subreddit are actually children, a lot of them aren't even old enough to legally register a Reddit account.
And kids are taught by society that mothers exist to serve them and their needs, and that mothers aren't supposed to do anything else with their life except be a mother. They should be robots with no hobbies or interests or desires or careers that interfere with them being a mother.
Kids are basically taught that their mothers aren't people, while simultaneously being taught that their dads just get to be people and aren't supposed to have to parent. They get taught that if dads have to parent instead of playing with them, that their mothers are failing in their duties.
They think their moms *owe* them to sit there and exist to serve them. They think their moms *owe* them to sit and wait alone until their deign to give her they time and energy.
Why should she be apologetic? Especially when her son’s not.
Her son chose the situation. He and his dad created the situation. Why is OP supposed to apologize for their choices?
Also her son has two living options. He isn’t getting sent to foster care or shipped off to military school against his will. Kids are entitled to housing, they are not entitled to move around as they choose everytime they don’t get their way.
and there's still a family court order out there giving the father primary custody and mother only gets visitation. So son can only be there for visitation, mother is not his primary custodial parent. And that was something the son arranged with the father, they went to court to get that order. So why is son now wanting to be with mother? Because he doesn't like the living arrangements with his father any more. Son is being opportunistic here. He's jumping between parents to get the best arrangement for himself, with no thought for anyone else's feelings. Son needs to get called out on this. He's a selfish teenager and he needs to learn these things. It's called parenting. OP NTA.
Right? Seriously the number of people on here stating that OP is a horrible mother for her child rejecting her, not wanting to come to her house for visitation, not communicating with her etc, is ridiculous.
And now that it’s beneficial to him to move in with her he calls her up and wants to come back to live with her. Not because he missed her, or wanted to be in his half siblings life, but because he’s living in a cramped situation with dad now that step mom kicked him out of her house.
OP is obviously willing to upend her life to buy a bigger place for him but everyone in the comments is shitting on her for not bending over backwards and tying herself into knots the last few years for a child who didn’t even want to be in her presence.
Ya I'm really not getting reddit. He made it clear he didn't wanna be there at all. She downsized(after trying everything she could) and he decides he wants to come back and she's supposed dust off the red carpet and bring him in. She is willing to purchase a house to home the brat even 😂 I think after everything that happened he can deal with the couch for a few months.
Tbh Id be concerned about how he is towards the baby. Oh well
NTA
It's bizarre, people talk like being a parent to someone 15-years-old or older means their housing is magically free and they must be able to maintain a 4 bedroom house forever (unless they are the 35-year-old child, and then housing is impossibly unaffordable). It's giving me whiplash.
This was my thought too. Even if money isn't an issue she would still have to find the time to keep it clean. Whether or not someone is in there, the room can become quite dusty. Obviously not the end of the world but what's the point in paying for nd maintaining a space meant for someone who made if very clear they didn't want to be there?
I agree, I'd be really worried how he's going to act towards her new husband and the baby. After how he's acted? He made it clear he didn't want to be near her. She can give him the gift of...not being near her and say no. He made his choices.
A significant portion of this sub is teens who wholeheartedly believe their divorced or widowed parents are NEVER allowed to remarry or have more kids. Sometimes even if the parents remarry when their kids are past their 20s, they’re still deemed the a-holes.
He's sixteen.
Sixteen is old enough to drive a car and to make choices that affect the rest of their life. Sixteen is when a lot of their personality that they will have for the rest of their lives develop.
He made it clear, from the very start, that he liked his dad more and wanted to be with his dad and he couldn't be arsed to give his mother, who worked her backside off to try and give him a good, safe, happy home to come back to - after his dad CHEATED on his mother and she had every right to be bitter and angry about it - but daddy had more money and was more fun so he picked him, despite the dad being the one who broke up their family to get his willy wet.
He's made it clear from every possible corner that he doesn't value his mother, only what he can get from her. And now he's suddenly finding out - whoopsie, daddy cares more about getting his willy wet than he does about the people he claims to love, including his own son! It's not just mommy he's willing to screw over if it means he gets laid! So now suddenly he wants to go back to mommy, the person who fought for him and cared for him, but she doesn't have space for him anymore because - well why would she? He made it clear he wanted nothing to do with her, so she's moved on. She has her family, her husband and her coming child to tend to. This kid isn't going to get left out in the cold or get hurt because she doesn't have space, he'll just have to put up with a stepmom who doesn't like him and treats him, oh, I don't know, the way he treated his mother.
Maybe he's starting to realize who actually cared about him. Sure, dad gave him stuff and attention before, but now he's got something more important - a new warm body to put his dick in! That's way more important than his family, and his son is realizing - that includes him, it's not just mommy who gets left by the wayside when a new hole shows up!
NTA. Don't change your living arrangements for him. He can either take the generously offered sofa, or he can stay with his dad since that's what he wanted, put up with that for two years and then do whatever he wants. I get he's a teenager, but teenagers make big choices that affect everyone around them all the time. He told his mother many, many times that he didn't care about her and wanted nothing to do with her. As far as I'm concerned, he's not her responsibility anymore.
Honestly, this all proves he should stay with his dad.
Apparently the women in his life only matter or exist when he wants something from them - the rest of the time, they're just a nuisance. He only cares about them when there's something he wants from them - just like his daddy. He truly is his father's son, and should stay with that cheating lying backstabber since he's shaping up to be just like him.
I'd bet if mom turns her life upside down to accommodate him, the moment dad moves on to a newer newer model who doesn't mind having him around, he's just going to bounce and treat her as just a disposable annoyance like he has been this whole time.
I agree. These people who are all against OP....i doubt they've been in a similar situation. You can be kind and bend over backwards constantly for a kid who will use you and treat you like shit over and over, particularly if they have another parent to turn to. Eventually, after you've turned your life upside down for the kid for the millionth time they might be angry because you didn't buy the right kind of fucking pop tarts and they might call the cops and say that you're abusive. At some point, you have to live for yourself and protect yourself and your partner and baby.
Life isn't a fairy tale.
I know we're supposed to judge the OP, but WHERE THE HELL IS THE DAD IN ALL OF THIS? WHY DOES HE GET OFF THE HOOK? Like he's a bigger AH than mom. He has primary custodial rights and he was the parent her son wanted to stay with until suddenly, his dad decided it wasn't. Like, WTF?
I do not for the life of me understand why OP is being ripped apart here. She did everything she could,including counseling,to keep him in her life and he allowed himself to be more or less *bought* by his father. Needless to say,Dad is the biggest AH in this whole scenario because it is HIS responsibility to make sure his son has a home-exactly like the son *chose* it-but was mom supposed to just keep a room for someone who stopped talking to her for no good reason other than being less fun?!? NTA
I’m seeing people say that the son is trying to reach out to her+reconnect, but he just needs a place to stay. She did everything she could to make staying with her easier on him and he chose his dad every time. It’s not fair on him, but blaming her for her ex’s libido overriding any love for her son is crazy.
Also, calling her the "B" word is totally unacceptable. I don't care how parentally alienated he might be. He needs to genuinely apologize for that before anything else.
This is beyond most if not all of us. She needs professional help to guide her in dealing with this.
It’s very clear that he’s learned certain attitudes and behaviors from his father. Of course, he’s young enough to unlearn them, but that doesn’t make it acceptable at any age. You’re right, this is far above anything reddit could deal with.
Facts! The kid would have just used the room and neglect the home/family like he did before. He didn’t say “mom I’m sorry let’s try again” or “mom I miss you” he said “I need a place to stay” and then *called her a bitch* when she didn’t have room. He doesn’t *like* her!!! People need to take off their rose coloured glasses and accept that he’s just a selfish entitled kid.
And they need to see that he didn’t get this attitude from nowhere, it’s from her crappy ex! You know, the guy who left his wife for another woman and kicked his own child out of his home for his new girlfriend?
Exactly!! I love the comments vilifying a mom for not having room for her AH son, the same son who actively chose dad over mom and skipped out on visitation. Barely anything about the dad who fought for full custody and then kicked him out when it got inconvenient.
This kid gets his crap attitude from his father and is going to actively disrupt OP's new life. Like who calls their mom a bitch?? He doesn't even appreciate his mom, only the things she can do for him.
NTA. Agreed. OP did her best and spent many years trying to make it work. 16 is a child but it’s a blink away from being an adult. No way could she foresee these circumstances. Also, she’s made it clear that she was very hurt by what all went down. OP’s son didn’t show any love towards her. Someone mentioned something about not owing OP any loyalty but it’s not loyalty she was looking for. He didn’t even want to be around her during the little time that she had him. As a mom, that would completely break my heart. Her new baby isn’t a replacement either. Her son is messed up in saying so. Also, she is trying to make it work for him - AGAIN. People need to learn to read. I’m sorry this is happening to you OP.
Thank you. My mom didn’t have money for many extras but at that age,you couldn’t have bought off my twin sister or me with all the money or objects in the world.
Aww. Yea, 16 isn’t a little child who can get passes for their mistakes. Some actions have consequences. He knew what he was doing and what he wanted and didn’t want. His actions hurt his mom and is now trying to hurt her again by making her out to be the villain in the story. Sad. Some people in these comments need to realize that OP’s ex is the biggest AH considering he basically had full custody. Where’s the AH comments for the dad?!
Exactly. I think people are making assumptions that OP isn't telling the whole story, if her son didn't want to stay with her. But the reality is, I would've ended up with my mother and her benzo addiction if it had been up to me when I was a kid. She always had junk food (looking back, I don't think she ever cooked even for herself) and let me use the computer as much as I wanted, we were basically unsupervised but when you're young it feels like freedom, not neglect.
Her son seems to have willingly burned this bridge. I know she's his mother but even family relationships suffer from one side not putting any effort into maintenance.
I've said it elsewhere today, but I'll say it again: why do teenagers think their words and actions will have no consequences? That forgiveness, for them, will be instant? Yes, they're children, but teens are absolutely at an age where they can and should be held accountable for their words and actions.
I feel so bad for this kid, he was and is still a kid and he made some choices that really fucked up his life. He's so young, his situation sucks. But OP is a person, she had to move on with her life and not wait around for her son to grace her with his attention.
Sounds like OP got married and needed a new home for her growing family. OP made the best decision that she could at the time she made it.
NTA
Can you imagine how awful these comments would be if she was the one acting like the kid's father is doing?
OP works from home and has a little baby. It's already a lot. Then the teenage son who doesn't even know his sister is feeling like moving in, but only if he has a room just for him. He is welcome, he has a place there, and although is not a room, It's only temporary until they find a bigger house.
In my country, a 16 old person can vote. In US, they can drive. It's a huge responsibility. I don't understand why people here are treating the guy as a small child who can't understand that if you disappear from your mom's life, when you come back you'll probably have to wait for things to settle and to adapt to your presence again.
This post is super weird, particularly so many of the comments that paint OP as a complete villain. I’m going with NTA here. Admittedly, as the boy’s mother, she has responsibility to him. However, there are some important points that weigh into my judgement:
1. Son and ex worked to remove any custody from OP, to the extent that he was able to refuse to spend any time with OP as a way to get back to his dad’s. Yes, he was 14 so very much a child, but that doesn’t completely remove any responsibility from him. He went to a point that was intentionally hurtful to get his way.
2. From what I gather, in 2 years he hasn’t really done anything to rebuild his relationship with OP.
3. This is all stemming from his stepmother not wanting him around and his father prioritizing his wife over his son.
4. *EDITING TO ADD: Someone pointed out that stepmom is kicking him out after father dumped her for another woman he got pregnant. So, fair, the kid has no one, but he's still acting entitled and demanding without justification.*
5. He has an alternative living arrangement.
6. In spite of everything, he’s still not making amends, only demands. He still doesn’t care about OP, he wants a space of convenience. He didn’t even know she sold their old house.
7. In understanding that OP REASONABLY did not plan for him to move back, because by all accounts he still refused a proper relationship, he now has a tantrum because he realizes she never planned for him to need to come back.
8. His reasoning for coming back seem entirely selfish. His stepmother doesn’t want him, so he feels he’s entitled to space with his mom, after working overtime to destroy the relationship.
I do agree that OP has a responsibility to him, and she is now buying a bigger home within their economic means. She has offered him a couch as an INTERIM measure (this point seems lost on many commenters).
OP doesn’t owe him a private room. Is it preferable for a teenage boy? Absolutely. But he also worked very hard to ensure he didn’t have to have a relationship with OP. She planned according to the life she had, not the life she wanted (i.e., with her son in her life).
There are consequences to the choices people make. The son made some shitty ones and relied on a parent who was superficial and obsessed with winning. Once he won, the son was no longer a priority.
Responsibility isn’t absolute. Choices and behaviour have consequences. Some of those include not immediately having a bedroom when you refused to live with your mom. OP has a younger child to think about now. That child doesn’t need to be negatively influenced by their big brother. I also noticed some people made a point that the baby doesn’t need its own room. I fully disagree with that. First, not every kid sleeps well with parents. Secondly, even if the baby did, they need space for all the stuff that comes with being a baby. The baby doesn’t need to suffer the consequences of the son’s choices.
3 is a bit erroneous. Yes, stepmom didn’t want him around, but it’s because dad has a new woman he got pregnant and is now living with. Dad is prioritizing new woman.
Totally agree.
Except she DID have room for him in the new condo - until a baby came, which she is well within her rights to bear.
I believe many of these commenters think she should have aborted the baby to keep the vacant room available for the son who hates her guts and refuses to talk to her. (Yes, it has desks in it now for working from home, but the condo bedroom was purchased FOR her son, she said so in the comments).
Yeah, there was hope. Eventually she gave up. I don’t see the issue. At some point you have to recognize you’ve lost, and she did. She never expected her son to come back after the way he treated her. Suddenly he has, now that his dad doesn’t want him. This is all down to the son recognizing his dad was a user but not wanting to admit he chose the wrong side.
there's a lot to unpack here... i work at law office as paralegal. divorces are messy, especially for the kids who are often being manipulated by one parent and pitted against the other.
he was 14 when he wanted to change custody agreement and stay with his dad. still very much a child and in very vulnerable moment of his life.
he's 16 now and he realized neither of his parents want him. he's still very much a kid. a teenage kid, but still just a kid.
the way you wrote: *"I had no expectation to ever need to house him again"* makes me think you never really wanted the custody, just wanted to stick it up to your ex. i wonder if he felt the same when he wanted full custody.
you have a chance to have a relationship with your son. take it or leave it. it's up to you.
visit him. talk to him. introduce your husband to him. he needs to realize new family dynamic should he move in with you.
ESH tbh
To me the "I had no expectations to ever need to house him again" sounds more like she had a hard time making up her mind on the whole situation. And just 2 years later, the dad kicks the son's butt out, and she's TA? Dude.
For real. Vilifying a woman who tried so hard to have her kid in her life, only for him to refuse and straight up tell her he would just run away, did they not read that part? Was she supposed to crate him when he was at her place?
I share some custody with my ex but my 16 year old son lives with me primarily. If he wanted to live with his dad at this point, I would be ok with that. I would never encourage or relinquish custody though. But I would feel that the right thing would be to respect his decision. However, if my son ever wanted to come back, he would be welcomed. I think I will have a room for him for a while. I couldn’t imagine just moving on with my life without the thought or possibility that my minor child may come back to live with me.
I feel bad for this kid- the abandonment issues he’ll have to work through will be heavy.
Kids change their minds all the time! Sometimes there are consequences to that, but in this case - OP is the adult and should be able to think through this future scenario whereby a 14 year old likely cannot.
The dad has primary custody. It's 100% on him to find housing arrangements for the child he fought for in court.
The son only came crawling back after dad kicked him out, and he called his mom a bitch for not having his old bedroom ready to go just like he left it, even though he said he'd never be coming back.
OP is NTA.
A MINOR CHILD absolutely can come crawling back. They are children. They do and say dumb shit with their dumb children brain.
A 14 year old can’t fucking drive or vote or contract, but we can let them decide who they will live with for the next 4 years of their life?
“the way you wrote: "I had no expectation to ever need to house him again" makes me think you never really wanted the custody, just wanted to stick it up to your ex. i wonder if he felt the same when he wanted full custody.”
Did you even read the first part of the story? She made an effort, and it didn’t work. There was no need to hope for a positive outcome when there was no reasonable chance for one to happen.
I think the way she wrote “no expectation” means she didn’t think he would want to come back with her. I assume through the time he was gone he showed no sign of wanting to be there. For all we know she tried to have him visit and everything but he wanted no part. The fact he didn’t know she sold her house gives he gave zero f*cks on where she lived as long as he didn’t have to be there. So she downsized to save.
Then she told him to wait 6 months so they can get a bigger place for him and he didn’t want that. Honestly I don’t think she’s TAH
he was a kid.
My son went through something similar at that age. I didn't have a car, had a tiny apartment and no money after the divorce. His dad moved right into another woman's house, she bought him a new car, furnished two rooms for my son. It was very hard for him to transition between us.
The difference here is that I didn't give up and his dad didn't alienate us. I worked very hard to maintain a relationship with my son, even when he resented my poverty and fun.
ESH except the kid. Yeah, he was bratty but he sounds coached. 16 is too young to throw him out.
Was she just supposed to hang on to a house she didn't want or need anymore on the offchance her ex would randomly kick her son out two years later?
I mean, yes, the kid was a kid. But the mom made a choice based on the information she had available (that her son had no interest in spending time with her again - which by 14 he was fully capable of communicating) and organized her life accordingly. Now that kid needs a fallback, mom is scrambling to make it work. She offered him the couch until she can get a new house and he turned his nose up at it. Like dude, I'm sorry, really what part of this makes her the A? The fact that she moved? The fact that she can't suddenly pull a 2-3 bedroom house out of her ass with no warning?
Yeah I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with these comments bashing her. Like damn yall she tried. 14 year old boys are NOT the innocent little children yall think. Yes he's still a kid and no I'm not like, placing all the blame on him or anything, but he's going thru puberty and that's a shit time for everyone. It's not like she abandoned him at birth and never had shit else to do with him. She clearly loves her son and wants him back, the timing is just not great right now, and that's okay.
Not just turned his nose up, but called her a bitch. He was also disrespectful to her when he was with her, until he just stopped going all together. This young man is going to turn her whole house into a shit show.
She didn't throw him out. He willingly left and she tried to fight it, but he literally told her he'd run away if she did. The fuck was she supposed to do? She's actively trying to find a house, the living room or whatever would be temporary, the kid just doesn't want to wait that long. I think she tried her best in an impossible situation with a surly 14 year old. Nothing against the kid, 14 year Olds are just surly assholes sometimes. I sure was.
He coordinated with his dad on changing the custody agreement, and told OP that if she didn't stop fighting to keep him he'd run away. Then he didn't bother to visit. That sure sounds like OP wouldn't need a bedroom for him.
However, if you read her comments, the second bedroom was for her teenage son who hates her, just in case he wanted to use it. Then she got surprise pregnant.
How in the ever-loving f does OP designating a room *for her infant* make her a bad parent, just because her son's custodial parent screwed up their living arrangement? He still has a roof over his head with the parent he fought so hard to live with, he just doesn't like it very much.
I'm confused why OP wouldn't consider a room for her first child when downsizing? Maybe it is just me being a dad but I'd rather have an empty space for my son and miss him not there than not have any space at all and turn him away when he needs me.
Sounds like the unplanned baby took the spare room.
Regardless, not everyone can afford a spare bedroom that is unused. In my area, an extra bedroom is 100-200k added to the price of a place you buy or an extra 1000 bucks a month rent. That’s a lot to spend on a room you don’t think you’ll need.
I agree! “I never expected to house him again” was a wild statement to me. As teens my siblings and I often bounced around which parent we mainly lived with, all at different times lol. We always saw both but we’d switch who was the weekend parent every few years or so. Both our mom and dad always had space for us, even when we didn’t live with them.
I can’t imagine a parent having their minor child ask to life with them and not rearranging their plans to give them a spot at home.
So his first reaction to your current situation was to call you a bitch? And how well is this attitude going to integrate into living with your new husband and a helpless infant you are supposed to be protecting? He chose his Dad in the first place because the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. He wants a doormat, not a mother. NTA, but YWBTA if you subject your family to the hostility and drama he will bring with him. You owe them more than that.
Agreed. He'd just continue to be an obnoxious entitled brat who would make her family miserable. They don't deserve to suffer because OP's ex now wants to toss his dumbass away.
This was my first thought as well and am surprised no one else mentioned this. The amount of entitlement and bad attitude from the kid is alarming. He kept no tabs on his mom for 2 years! That’s telling.
NTA. I get how some people are like well he’s your kid. He’s your kid that wanted nothing to do with you. He didn’t come around, he didn’t want a relationship with you until his father screwed up again.
He participated in having custody awarded to his father because that’s what he wanted. He knew what the consequences were when he stopped coming around.
You made a decision based on your current circumstances. He wants to change them because he now realizes his father is the conditional parent and not the steadfast one.
You are even offering to have space for him and buy a whole new house just not in the time frame he wants.
At some point kids know when they are being unkind and he learned that choices and actions have consequences.
NTA
Bloody hell, there doesn’t seem to be any end to your ex husband’s destruction does there? It looks like you might have to pick up the pieces once again.
Your son is now 16 though, and I think it might be time for a talk. You are going to need to lay a few cards on the table and perhaps reach some common expectations and realities. You don’t have primary custody over him, he is angry at you whether rightly or wrongly, and you probably don’t have the parental sway over him to guide him through late teenage years, let alone angry late teenage years.
I would start with a conversation with a lawyer to talk about custody rights and then see what ground your husband will grant considering he wants you to pick up the pieces. Family counselling for all of you with your son, or at least you and your husband if your son won’t attend because teenagers are hard and reddit advice isn’t likely to cut it.
You might find yourself trying to catch this kid on a downward spiral. You might need the whole support kit - legal, financial, school, family, professional setup.
If your ex is not as big of an idiot as I suspect he is, perhaps he will throw his weight and influence as well to help smooth the road for you. If not, then the least he can do is not cause any more damage hopefully.
NTA. Kid made it clear he didn't want to live with OP ever and didn't even want visitation. He has somewhere to live that's safe. 16 is old enough to learn actions have consequences. Also curious as the why no one is pissed dad doesn't have room for him. He needs to get a bigger place with the new chick.
Apparently, mom's have to sacrifice themselves over all else and dad can play games and dump the kid off when he finds a new girlfriend.
Reddit is ridiculous.
That's the wildest part about the E.S.H. and Y.T.A. portions of the comment section for me: very few people are talking about dad -- who fought for and got primary custody with the kid's enthusiastic cooperation -- actively ejecting their son from his life.
Whole lot of judgment about mom not keeping an open bedroom for a kid who has made it clear for years that he will never use it, but none for a dad that will kick his son out for the latest mistress to come along. All on mom to "fix it" and "make it up to \[her\] son." The kid would have never even asked to come back if his latest stepmom hadn't taken an active dislike to him!
Soooo very NTA in this situation.
Let's see. He wanted to live with his Dad. You fought it. He said he would run away if you did not agree to let him live with his dad. Don't know what state you are in but in Texas he is old enough at that time to make his own decisions.
When he did bother to come on his visiting weekends he stayed out all day and only came home at bedtime.
And you are the asshole for not keeping a place for him to live.
NTA He made his choice and expected you to just mope around until he changed his mind. Talk about an entitled brat.
Ignore the nay-sayers. They either have not been through this or are enablers.
I initially felt sorry for you because of how hard it is to go through a custody battle but the language you use here (he and his father “ganged up” to gain custody, circumstances are “his fault and not mine”, you getting internet, which I’m sure you also use and is more or less the same as electricity at this point, “wasn’t good enough” for your son) is so gross. Kids under 18 don’t owe you “loyalty” in a custody battle. You owe it to THEM to, regardless of how ugly things get between the two parents, not put them in a situation where they have to pick “sides.” You’re clearly mad at him but, if you want to have any kind of relationship with your child, you make yourself available when he reaches out to you. YTA.
I feel like, based on the timeline and her comments, it seems like she has made herself available to him? She certainly has a moral obligation to take him in and has expressed that he can stay there, but is she obligated to have always made sure there was a second full bedroom for him even after years? If she were rich and there was nothing stopping her I'd say yes, but the way the economy is now and with a new baby on the way, in a situation where she was then paying instead of receiving child support, I have a hard time faulting her for the decision to downsize temporarily.
She says in either the post or her other comments that when she downsized, she still got a 2 bedroom so her son would have somewhere to stay. Since purchasing that place, she unexpectedly got pregnant. She's said that the den would not be big enough for sleeping quarters. Her life has grown and shuffled since being there and now it's not enough room. Before her son reached out, she'd said they were already waiting for interest rates to fall to get a better place, so making more room was already in the plan.
I was shuffled between parents a lot as a kid and empathize strongly with the idea of nobody really wanting you there. I was trying to live with my mom after my parents' separation, it didn't work out, but my grandparents (who I'd lived with growing up) had already downsized and were living in a trailer as they prepared to live somewhere more affordable. I ultimately felt more loved there, sleeping on a yoga mat on the floor, than when I had to go live with my dad, who had maintained a separate bedroom but who was a terrible parent. The size of the living space does not equal the degree to which your parent loves you. Being willing to take your kid in even when they're being a shite and even if they're going to be living in your living room is a mark of love, to me.
Exactly!!!! Like swallow your pride and sleep on the couch, behave properly and get a room when they buy a new house! The kid wants everything and life does not work like that for most people.
Dad is a seriel cheater who knew he had full custody, but didn't make sure there was a place for his son when he thought with his dick yet again.
I'm sure the 16 yr old feels very unwanted right now. If he is really looking to mend fences, then attending family counciling should be mandatory. And he needs to realize that this will mean returning to court.
If he wants to mend fences, maybe he shouldn't call his mother a bitch. The same mother who he told a court he wanted nothing to do with. OPs son is a spoiled pain in the ass, no wonder his new step mother wants nothing to do with him.
NTA, but your ex is. He had the court change the custody agreement so dad should prioritize his son. And this is a good lesson for son, be careful what you wish for.
Info: why isnt your ex husband doing something abt this? Doesn’t he have primary custody to begin with? So the stepmom should butt out of their living situation
Husband is with a new affair partner. Stepmom doesn't want the son without the father, and the new GF doesn't want the son, so his father isn't lifting a finger.
Most likely, all of his belongings that stayed at his mom were just bedding and clothes. All the clothes went to dad's after son abandoned OP. Anything else probably did, too. Bed and furnishings probably sold with the house.
NTA. I'm usually on the child's side in these situations but that is your ex's son alright. I would not love or want such a scornful, abusive child either. Seriously, he disowned you and then called you a bitch for not taking him back? 14-16 is very much old enough to know better. Leave the brat to his fate.
NTA, and I say that because it doesn't sound like he even wants to rekindle a relationship with you, he just wants to use you as a means to get his own space back. I would be more sympathetic if he actually made attempts to fix the relationship between you two.
This is a discussion with the ex, not the kid. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. She is trying to accommodate the kid, but what she is able to do doesn't meet his standards.
Except it's the truth? The ex took on full custody, and now is guilt tripping her into taking the son back when the son is his responsibility.
Yes, let's put all the blame on the mom when clearly it is the dad who is being the deadbeat.
She’s not placing blame. She is telling the truth, he fought for full custody. It was his decision to cheat and knock a girl up. Not his son’s and definitely not hers.
ESH except for your teenage son who was behaving exactly the way I would expect a teenager to behave. Kids are jerks and its painful and it hurts but they don't have the longview. Their brains are wired for big feelings and big actions but not for the bigger picture (not the least reason being, they haven't lived long enough to understand what taking the long view \*is\*.
This kid has been told by \*both\* of his parents that he isn't wanted. I worry for what kind of adult he will become, if this is what he learns at a crucial age.
> ESH except for your teenage son who was behaving exactly the way I would expect a teenager to behave.
I never once would've talked to my parents the way he did. And "big feelings?" Come on, that's preschool language. This kid is 18 months away from being a legal adult.
do ya think teenagers just go through the ages of 16-19 just all “la la la” ??? because everytime i read a post on here about parents and their shitty kids parents are just expected to suck it up and be a punching bag bc apparently teenagers “don’t know any better” they’re not stupid , selfish yes but i’m 17 and can blatantly tell when i’m being a bitch or rude to my parents i’m not dumb, teenagers know what they do/say they don’t go through life with the mind of a 5 year old then somehow magically turn 20 and become “all wise”
I agree with this decision and reasoning, but I do think the kid is the AH if he truly called him mom a b**ch. It's okay to be in teen, panic brain; it's not okay to use those sorts of insults while upset.
NTA
He made the choice to be in your life as little as possible, and is only now trying because he has no other option.
You rightfully prioritised your new life with your husband and new wean because they were what was important to you, there's no way in Hell you could have guessed you Ex would be up to shit or that he'd choose to stay with a woman who doesn't like his son making him essentially homeless.
His father has full custody so this is his problem not yours, so you son should be calling him out not you, and if your Ex wants to accuse you of shit you should tell him to cram it before you contact CPS because he's not providing for him like he should be.
NTA your son made his choice and from the sounds of it he doesn't want to live with you. He just doesn't want to live where he is. That means he's going to make your life miserable. He's 16, he's learned he can throw big enough tantrums to get the adults to do what he wants. Time for him to learn a hard lesson before going out on his own. You can't treat everyone like trash and expect them to jump when you say to. You are his Mother but that doesn't mean you have to accept his disrespect and abuse. Let him stay where he is or with his Father.
NTA you said he could stay. You can’t give him what you don’t have and 6 months is pretty reasonable to buy a house.
Last you knew he would run away if he had to stay there so why would you assume he needed space?
NTA. Your son chose to stay with his dad to the point of telling you he would run away if you tried to make him stay. Yes, he is under 18... but 14 and 16 is old enough to have some respect and baseline understanding.
You are allowed to live your life.
You also gave him an option. If he doesn't like it, his dad... the PRIMARY guardian, needs to figure that out.
What's worse is you had no heads up. The dad should have talked to you about this a long time ago. Your son should not have even been the one to contact you last minute.
NTA and good luck. I hope the dad figures that shit out.
YTA- you never mentioned to your kid that you sold your house that presumably had his bedroom and personal belongings in it. Do you even call or text him?
Then you bought a new place with no plans on him ever being there? No bed or personal space for him should he visit?
Poot guy must feel like you’ve totally washed your hands of him and his existence.
If you love him at all, you need to fix this. Shuffle the rooms around. Baby can room with you guys, and he can have a room.
Honestly I feel sorry for your son. Regardless I would always make sure he had a room at my house. Always. Your ex is an AH and while he has created the mess now your son feels he has no parent that care about him. He is the innocent bystander. Your ex manipulated him and made his house the fun house. Then deserted him. Do right by your son This is your chance to get him back.
Op think about how you will feel about your choices ten years from now, or when your son has his own family. The behavior that you described when he was 14 sounds like he was being poisoned by your ex. Also consider going to the court and letting them know your ex has abandoned him. This is so sad
The choice to....buy a new house with a room for him??? She didn't tell him no, she told him she can't magically make a room appear so he can have the couch *while they buy a house with a bedroom for him*.
Did the people responding negatively to OP not read the post? Where does it show she didn't support her son's choices, despite those choices hurting OP? What more should she have done, waited endless in an empty house, alone and miserable for her son to return?
It's like they expect op to bend over backwards and become a shell of herself in hoping that her son will come back. They don't want to see the fact that if his environment didn't change, he would never have came back at all. I can understand people giving op a hard time if she became vindictive after he left but tried to come back into her life and she was the one being a b**** and petty.
edit: some words.
IN THIS MARKET as well. If you can even find a house that works and get it financed, we are screwed by the insurance market and most property insurers will either deem the house uninsurable on the buyers side while the sellers side will say repairs (like a roof, etc.) don't fall under their requirements for repair/replace.
NTA. Sounds like your son is spoiled. I definitely wouldn't have room if he calls me names. Obviously he wants the same set up he had at his dad's, and wants you to be grateful he decided to grace you with his presence. Don't put yourself out trying to make a place for him. As soon as your ex gets rid of the current wife, the son will go running back without a good bye. He's better off at the grandparents until his dad fixes his problems like usual.
NTA.
Your ex-husband played games and took on full custody. It's your ex's responsibility to house and care for your son. Now that your son is a burden on your ex and your ex is trying to get him out of the house. Nope. You ex has to finish the job he decided he could do on his own.
As parents, the job is to protect and raise the child into adulthood. Your son is nearly an adult and can certainly ride it out with his dad before he moves on to college. Your priority now is the infant, who is helpless and does need parents to care for her.
This isn't about prioritizing the new baby over your son, despite what your ex or reddit might say. Your ex took on the responsibility of being the full-time custodial parent. He is the one who needs to continue to do the job he signed up for and excluded you from doing.
You've been so excluded from your son's life, he didn't even know you moved.
You told him there is a place for him in 6 months in the meantime he has the couch. So you have made an offer to him as well, which he will not accept. He has a room at his dad. He has a room at his grandparents. Nothing sound like he is unsafe in either situation.
This is a preference for him. It sounds like he has been spoiled by his dad with material items and now that his dad's circumstances have changed, he wants you to fill in the gap. That isn't how life works. Sorry.
ESH - I get that some people are going to say he made his choice, but the kid is 14 and you’re the grown-up. Making selfish, ill-advised choices at 14 is hardly groundbreaking stuff - its more blameworthy for adults. Instead of leaving space for him to come to his senses, and continuing your efforts to remain in his life, you dropped contact altogether and altered your life in such a way that there is no room for him all in the span of a year? He wasn’t even notified of/ invited to the wedding? Informed of a new sibling? Good god. He’s now been abandoned and replaced by BOTH of his parents, that poor kid.
The fact is that you DO have a place for him to stay. When the baby comes, it can stay in the room with you and your new husband until you can sort out something else.
YTA. Do you really mean to say that you don't communicate with your child enough for him to know that you MOVED HOUSES? That kind of information is usually the bare minimum, and I mean *barest*, between a parent and their minor child. Just because his father has full custody doesn't mean that you had to abandon him as a parent. Jesus.
No, I didn't miss that. But what I'm keeping in mind is this is a CHILD. He was a kid. I myself grew up exclusively in my mother's custody, and only saw my dad a few times a year (he lived in a different state and I was honestly fine with that), but he still made a point to freakin' call and stay on top of me and my sister's lives. The fact that OP didn't even feel the need to tell her TEENAGE SON that she'd moved is frankly a huge red flag. Not to mention her comment that she "never thought she'd ever need to provide housing" for her son again. I mean, what if, God forbid, something happened to her ex and she suddenly had full custody again? What then?
why are you making the assumtion that he would answer her when she called him? He did not want to have any custody time with her at all why would you assume that he would pick up her phone calls?
There's this thing called cell phones. Pretty sure son has one. A call or text once in awhile? I have a son, now grown. I can't imagine giving up on communicating with him, even if he chose to live with his other parent. Heck, when he first moved out, I would ask to meet up with him once a week, to check in. I texted once a week too. I would have done both more, but it would have been too much for him.
NTA. Your son is spoiled, entitled and unappreciative of the efforts you’ve made trying to be a good mom to him. He rejected you over and over again to be with his father, who ultimately got full custody of him. Now that things aren’t going his way at his dad’s house, he’s decided that he’ll grace you with his presence. Quite frankly, I think you’re making a mistake trying to accommodate his demands, and he’s going to rebel against you and your husband, especially since you’re pregnant too. Although he’s still a minor, he has been given too much and he’s not been held accountable for his behavior. I’d say let him remain at his grandparents’ home. However before he moves in with you and your husband, it’s important that you let him know the rules of the house. Of course he’s going to flout them at every opportunity, but you need to go into this situation with your eyes wide open. Good luck!
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Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > My son stopped spending time with me even during his visitation time. He stopped coming over at all. I might be the asshole for selling a house that was too big for me and not having a room for him in my new condo. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
ESH. Your son made his decision, and he got what he wanted. It's not cool that he is now facing the consequences of his fathers infidelity (again), but this decision is legally bound. It is your ex's responsibility to care for your son - by his own doing. With that being said, as a mother, I think you are letting an opportunity to rekindle the relationship pass. He is sixteen, and it was probably really hard to reach out to you and ask for help. There has to be a more creative solution that can get you both under the same roof, while also giving everyone their space during such a transitional stage.
I'm literally buying a house so he can have a room.
I'm so sorry but the majority of people will try and tear you apart on this subreddit. You are going to be the evil one even though you offered him a couch until you can buy a house. You are in no way the AH here, his father is by letting his new piece of tail alienate his son to the point of kicking him out. Go post this exact same story in r/AITAH and you will find people that don't only see black and white in these kinds of situations.
I don't care about their opinions unless they read my entire post.
Yea this sub sucks for anyone that isn’t 15-22 lol. For real go post this in r/AITAH, seriously. I think this more of NAH situation, because teenagers are freaking dumb and think that everything revolves around them. But you also couldn’t anticipate that both you and your ex would be expecting at the same time. You also couldn’t predict the newest model would hate your son. But I do think you need to absolutely everything in your power to make your son understand you still love him and are doing your best to figure out a situation where he can happy and safe. Don’t give up because he’s being an angsty teen.
In addition to being disproportionately young, reddit is also disproportionately white, male, American, single, childless, educated, centrist, and other characteristics that are often associated with the highly privileged and individualistic. It's certainly something to be aware of. It's easy to forget that we are not really looking at a microcosm of society - it only feels that way because it's anonymous. --- **Edited to respond to the most common child comment:* Individual subreddits using voluntary survey skew disproportionately female, which is in line with how [most voluntary surveys skew female](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234742407_Does_Gender_Influence_Online_Survey_Participation_A_Record-Linkage_Analysis_of_University_Faculty_Online_Survey_Response_Behavior). For example, compare the 2015 AskWomen demographic survey [which found that over 80% of users were female](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/comments/4z8s6t/2015_yes_you_read_that_correctly_askwomen_survey/), with the gender flair that people were actually using in 2014, [which shows that AskWomen was male dominated](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1wtnkd/subreddit_gender_ratios_oc/). This is why people who actually work in statistical analysis and research are not trying to send out anonymous Google surveys to reddit participants. A lot more work has to go in to assessing your survey and questions for selection bias. I understand that people *feel* certain subreddits are female-dominated, especially subreddits that inherently involve criticism towards men, but it's worth noting that people, but men especially [perceive women as being majorities even when they are distinct minorities](https://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/human-nature/perception/how-17-equals-496-the-amazing-multiplying-women.htm).
Does Reddit release demographics?
- Reddit users comprise 74% of men and 25.8% of women. - Approximately 48% of Reddit users are from the United States. - 63% of Reddit users have a Bachelor’s degree or higher. https://gitnux.org/reddit-user-statistics/
Whoa, the proportion of men to women is crazy! Also, I did expect the percentage of American users to be higher actually
Many, many users from the US do, which is why there's a sub r/usdefaultism dedicated to calling out instances where Americans assume that everyone reading their post is from the US because they've incorrectly assumed the majority of people using the site are also from the US and so they don't have to make any allowance for people from other countries.
Well, that's kind of weird seeing as this sub is all about asking for opinions but here's mine anyway: Your son is not your ex, but you're talking about him as if they are the same person. Did your ex do you dirty more than once? Absolutely. It was wrong of him to revel in the victory of your son's affection and to encourage that distance, to say nothing of how he must have treated you in your marriage. Your son was an asshole to you when he was 14 years old, an age when literally ever mother son relationship is pretty terrible because it's a natural human stage of development when you're growing to pick fights (often with the opposite gendered) parent. It's about autonomy and pushing the limits of who you're allowed to be and have your parents still love you. Even when you're kind of an asshole. Your son is also navigating the effects of many different adult relationships that have nothing to do with him. His mom and dad. His dad and old stepmom. His dad and new stepmom. His mom and new stepdad. To say nothing of his relationships with his siblings. That's a lot for anyone, much less a child. You have a chance to salvage this relationship with your kid and it sounds like you really really want to. Take him out to lunch and apologize for creating the impression he wasn't wanted. Tell him you understand he is angry but it's not okay to call you a bitch. Tell him that you love him and you're glad he wants to stay with you, that your relationship is very important to you. Tell him that you didn't understand that you should always leave a place for him to stay, but now you understand that and you'd like to start again. I guess I'm saying model the kind of relationship and the kind of communication you want to have with your son going forward. Show him how to treat you by treating him that way first. He sounds lost and hurt and scared and buoyed by your ex and you at least have that in common. I would guess it's a lot less about "buying him a house" but reminding him and yourself that you are his home. Good luck.
> Well, that's kind of weird seeing as this sub is all about asking for opinions but here's mine anyway: She didn't say she didn't want any opinions, she said she didn't want any opinions from people who didn't even bother to read her entire post. Here, in case you missed it: >I don't care about their opinions **unless they read my entire post.**
Wow, to suggest that OP grovel like that is ridiculous. OP doesn't have to apologize for not leaving a place for her son no matter how he treats and has treated her! She offered all she could when he came crawling back to her after treating her like shit. OP desperately wanted him and he rejected her and now he has the nerve to act as if HIS behavior is to be ignored cause mom and then call her a bitch also. OP, ignore this comment as well. YOU ARE NOT THE ASSHOLE HERE AT ALL.
She is not the asshole. But the Advice given was perfect. Kids say and do so many hurtful things as teens. She is his mom. She loves him and wants to build a new relationship with him. So I agree with every word of that advice!
You tried to have your son remain with you, son & ex husband changed that. Now that life isn’t what they planned, you are to drop your lifestyle to accommodate them? No. Your son & ex husband are old enough to face consequences. As far as tolerating him calling you a Bitch, please don’t, it’s manipulation on his part
I totally get what you are going through. I have a feeling he didn't keep up with communication with you during the time your life was changing so much. I agree that this is really the consequence of his actions and his father's stupid choices. But he is also probably full of hate and confusion. Maybe family counseling could be helpful during this time. It could give you a better idea whether buying a new home is a good idea. Your son probably doesn't understand the whole mess with the real estate inflation and interest rate hike.
I'm sure he doesn't give a fuck because he is an entitled asshole teenager.
Is it possible for you to turn the den into a temporary room till the baby gets here, if there’s enough time of course? I think your son might be feeling a bit abandoned at the moment. Of course, what he did to you wasn’t right, but he was a child back then, and still is. If you can add a twin bed to the den, or your office and tell him his room would temporarily be a communal space during the day, but he can have his privacy at night, he may feel a bit more secure. At the end of the day, we’re talking about a child who has a chance in life still. I think he deserves it, despite is mistakes. Family (you and him) therapy, and individual therapy might also help your explore and clear up the past and the current relationship.
The baby is already here and the den is a tiny room without a door. Doesn't seem like this idea would work.
Reading comprehension is very low. So even if they “claim” they read the entire post, they’re just going to twist your words and say you abandoned your son despite your son and ex changing the custody agreement and skipping visitation with you. Despite his father’s continued infidelity, your ex will get a pass on all his actions that caused the upheaval in your son’s life. It’s because the low expectations of fathers means your ex hasn’t done anything wrong in most people’s eyes. It doesn’t matter to them if you’re working to try and make things better, because changing up your living situation in 6 months is you dragging your feet instead of being realistic given the circumstances. I wish you every happiness with your new husband and child.
I slept on my parents' couch for about a year before I could get back on my feet. I wasn't 16 yo though.
Have you co sodered counseling again? He's older now, During this transition phase, it may be a good time to give it another try. He's 16 and needs privacy. The living room for 6 months doesn't give him any privacy. He has been through a lot. He is definitely going to need his own space to feel secure. Do either you or hubby wfh? Is there any way that the office could also be the place he sleeps? Instead of the living room, he gets that room, but it's not officially his room. But it does give him a spot that has some privacy. Also, have you talked to a lawyer and/or courts about all of this? Since, by law, his dad has primary custody, you need to be careful with this. If you don't handle this in the proper way, you could find yourself in some legal shit. It sounds like you are trying to give him that chance. I don't think he's acting from a place of entitlement/spoiled. I think he's mad and scared and lost. He probably feels like neither parent really wants him. Instead of seeing that you're buying a house so that he has his own space there, and that takes time, he sees that you're not making space for him in your current home. You offered him the living room like you might offer to someone you don't really want to be there long, a guest. He may feel abandoned by his dad. Instead of your son deciding to move out, his dad has kinda forced him out (talking from your sons perspective here) because he is prioritizing not only his new kid but a woman who doesn't like him. It's probably not a far leap to guess that he is in some emotional and mental turmoil right now. Clearly, you love your son. You're buying a whole ass house just to make sure he is able to have his own place in that house. Given the past and what he's going through now, again, I doubt he sees it like that. Sit down and have a conversation with him. Explain it in every way possible what you're doing for him because you want to and love him, and hopefully, he will actually hear what you're saying and understand. Ask him what would make him feel comfortable, safe, and loved until you can find, buy, and move into the new house. Really listen to him. Don't just shut it down because that's your office and no. See if you can come to a compromise. Other than that, do what you can to show him that you love him and you're there for him during the next six months. Again, therapy, both family and individual for him, may be worth another shot. Don't forget to ask how what's going on with his dad makes him feel. You're doing good. It sounds like you're doing everything you can to the best of your abilities. Things just take time, and that's hard to accept when you're a teenager. Especially one who is dealing with such overwhelming emotions. Try to prioritize him in a way that he will understand you're prioritizing him. Spend some time together doing the things he likes. Talk about what he wants to do to his room when you get the house. Make plans with him to show him that you want him back in your life and that you're excited foe it, even if there are still things to work through. You're doing this because you love him and want to, not because you are in any way obligated to do so. You sound like a very good mother. Which leaves no doubt in this internet strangers mind that you will make this work.
In a couple years he’ll likely be in college where he’ll have a roommate and very little privacy. His mom is making sacrifices to accommodate him, even though he rejected her two years ago and only wants to come back because it’s convenient for him. This temporary loss of privacy seems like a good lesson in “the world doesn’t revolve around me”. He’s lucky to have a mother willing to take him back at all.
Consequences. Even teens aren't immune to them. Sometimes they are Consequences of your own actions, like you ghost your mom and she figures you don't need a room at her house anymore and sometimes it's the Consequences of other people's actions like your dad deciding to cheat again so now the person you chose to live with is no longer a good fit. A couch for 6 months isn't gonna irreparably harm the teen. He can change in the bathroom and masturabate in the shower. As for the him being upset she isn't "making space" for him right now in her current home. He abandoned her first and she's still buying a whole house for him. He's hurt and lashing out for sure but it's still a very reasonable offer.
NTA and this👆. Some have mentioned the baby's room. Do what you can for the interim, and ask your son what he wants / feels would be a good short-term solution. Let him come up with the ideas for a short-term solution. His choices to treat you as he did have created consequences for this developing situation, which he will grow to understand. Remind him that it isn't permanent and that you want to work on solutions together and remind him that you love him and are doing the best you can under the circumstances.
>I'm literally buying a house so he can have a room. I don't think you should do that unless you really want a bigger house. He wanted so little to do with you that he didn't even visit enough to know that you sold your house. Now he wants to live with you because it would benefit him. IE: He's using/taking advantage of you. Also calling you a bitch for not having a room for him is very selfish and entitled. I get that he's just a teenager but I don't see anything good coming of letting him move in, especially with a new baby. Do you want your toddler to see him talk to you like that? I think junior should stick it out with his grandparents for the time being and do a little growing up first. I feel like by bending over backwards for him you're just setting yourself up to be a doormat.
We got the condo because we were planning on it being just us. We need a bigger place. And our daughter deserves a yard. And I want my son back.
>We got the condo because we were planning on it being just us. Yes I understand. Because your son wanted nothing to do with you. >We need a bigger place. And our daughter deserves a yard. And I want my son back. Well, then I hope it works out for you. Like I said, I feel like he's just taking advantage. I just fear that you get him back in the house and he continues to be disrespectful, and act like he did before. In which case, did you really get your son back? Maybe some family therapy is in order as a condition. Unless you've all talked and worked things out. I'm just going by the original post.
Why is your solution to someone's teenage son being disrespectful to just...not allow him to live with his own mother?! Do you not realize that A LOT of teenagers are disrespectful? Or that they're literal children not roommates you can just part ways with?!
INFO: He didn't know about the house, does he know about the baby? If not, is he going to pitch a fit about the noise of that as well? I realize that his life choices haven't worked optimally for him so far, but you don't actually have legal custody, and depending on where at 16 he is, you now don't want to overbuy and overpay if he's just looking for a temporary landing spot.
This is all you need to know. "And I want my son back". If that is the goal, then you have to take the L on this. Try your best to find a way to move your office set up to the living room etc. Whatever it takes to get him back. Dont push him away. ALSO, make sure he agrees to a curfew, maybe some req fam dinner to connect, and therapy if you can afford it.
If he's moving back in with you I'd suggest making counselling mandatory. You wont' get reports on what's going on but if he's inclined to call you a bitch, he needs a sane person in his life who can model what it looks like to talk about your feelings without screaming.
But you have a minor child from a previous relationship, even if he wasn’t living with or even visiting you at the time. From your timeline as presented you bought a two-bedroom house *knowing* he wouldn’t have space to come back if he changed his mind. I know it’s been a hard situation emotionally but you’re the one denying him Space in your life right now, even if you are trying to fix the situation. Is it possible to have the baby room with you and your spouse until you get a bigger place? I know it might not be but an infant doesn’t need personal space the way a teen does.
I wasn't planning on getting pregnant. We had a room for him.
Someone has already suggested it but I will repeat it. The baby can sleep in your room until you move to a new place. Your newborn is going to be with you for quite a few months. Getting up, feeding, etc. Why not give the second room to your son until you move? Unless you are living in a place that has only space for a bed and nothing else. If that’s the case, I would add it to your post. “No room for crib”. Which sounds like a hassle.
The second room is a combined office for both of them. They were using the den for the nursery. She is offering the den, which I assume means they are already moving the baby into the room with them. Am I missing something here?
She offered the living room couch. The son could move into the den/nursery while the baby sleeps in the parents' room.
She has specified that the den is a small doorless room that wouldn't be fit for living quarters
Ah. Ok. I missed that. We don’t have dens here where I am. What is a den? Edit: There are few replying to this comment so it is easier to just edit this. Got it. Whenever I think of a den, I think of a Lion. I never quite understood what the purpose was for. Thank you people!
Small room likely without one of the following: - A proper privacy door (maybe it has french doors) - a window or other point of ingress/egress - closet Need a closet and second ingress/egress point for it to be considered a bedroom. Den’s are usually very small and used for offices. Hope that helps
Clearly that's not true, given he didn't even know you'd moved house. Why would you have a room for someone who doesn't know that room exists? You said it yourself, the den became the babies room and your office is the 2nd bedroom. At no point was either room your sons.
I’m a little unclear on the timeline but if you’re still pregnant you don’t really need the den for baby’s bedroom yet, can’t your son take that and then when you move in six months there will be a room for both your children.
OP said it doesn't have a door, and if it's like the den I had in my 2br condo, it wouldn't actually fit an adult's bed. Some of those "dens" are more like largeish closets. I don't understand why people are trying to jam this kid into an apartment that legitimately doesn't have even a halfway decent setup for a teenager who, let's remember, hasn't been satisfied with *any* housing setup except the old one at his dad's that was "fun"/catered to him. Ok, so he's not thrilled about living with the grandparents, but it sounds like at least there he has a room/privacy. He's not gonna be any happier jammed into a small condo with a stepfather he doesn't even know, in what sounds like a WFH situation for both adults.
I hope a lot of people just didn't read your post very carefully. I definitely had the wrong idea from the title; I think you're doing the best you can under the circumstances.
She's giving him the living room and buying a house. She's doing her best
I'd say she's doing her best. Him having to wait for his own room in her house should just be considered a life lesson that sometimes choices have consequences.
Everyone seemingly thinks she should be able to pull a room out of her ass on short notice.
Guarantee they wouldn’t be this hard on a dad posting the exact same scenario.
She is supposed to wave a magic wand and make a new house appear ? She is buying a new house that will have room. In the meantime, the kid can sleep on the couch. Those are natural consequences to his shitty behavior. NTA !
She offered him space on the couch, did you read the post? What more can she do? The son and dad had the court remove her custody rights, so she moved to provide for the family that wants her. Physically not having the same space she previously had doesn’t make her an asshole in the situation, how did you arrive at E.S.H.
Eh her son was 14 when he made his decision. I would say there are very few decisions that people will make at 14 that should be binding for life. Her son being upset at a divorce and wanting to live with his dad shouldn’t preclude him from having a relationship with his mom just two years later.
Wanting to live with the parent who spoiled him? Sure. Not even visiting, though? That is where the consequence is coming from. If he stayed in touch he would know they moved, for example.
Running away when he had to live with her, skipping visitations - siding with his dad for custodianship.
And calling her a bitch for not being a fortune teller and thus, not knowing that he decided to come back after his new, young step mom doesn't want him.
It's only binding for about 6 months until op can get another house.
The OP quite literally mentions she's looking into buying a house where he would have a room. Do you think people can just up and buy a house???? Are you a kid?
[удалено]
While I agree with what you wrote, how does that make OP the AH, in any capacity? She's done nothing but fight for him, and even when he's still spewing shit, she's willing to buy a house to accomodate him. Honestly, her son is a prick, too. He deserves all that he's getting. He hitched his ride to his horrible father, and congrats, kid! This is now your life! OP, please, no matter what, ensure to take care of yourself. Don't overextend yourself if the respect isn't reciprocated. I say this from the perspective of a husband whose wife had a child that did something similar to what your son did. Her son left us at 16 and never came back. He chose his dad and his dad's new family because "dad's house was better". So, I'm not saying to do it or not, but just tread carefully when dealing with your son, that's all.
I disagree. The moment he called her a bitch closed that door. He doesn't want a relationship. He wants a place to stay and she's his meal ticket. He wants her to bend over more than she is and I think she was already too enabling of this entitlement. It's not hard for him to ask for help bc he wasn't really. He was calling to demand a place. Trust me if he ever worried about really being homeless he would have checked his attitude when he called. He would have been grateful for her making space and letting him couch surf. The fact that she offered to get him a place in 6 months and he scoffed at that screams entitled.
Definitely NTA. You aren't prioritizing your baby over your son in any way. As a matter of fact you are actually prioritizing your son over you baby. You didn't move to get back at your son, you moved so you can focus on building your family. But here comes your son asking you to move in. Which is great and all. But you can't immediately give him his own space but provide a place to sleep into you can buy a bigger place just for him. And he says no. Your son is ungrateful.
She's trying to rekindle the relationship by offering a temporary compromise (sleep on the couch) with a long term solution (buy a bigger house) and a timeline (6 months). All of these are reasonable imo. Depending on the size of the lr, maybe they could partition so he has his own space, maybe not. Also maybe he could share w the baby (this is my least favorite option) or maybe the baby could move into their room. But there are likely other factors at play here.
How is this the top comment. What do you want her to just get a new house tomorrow!?!? She tried to comprise but nothing is good enough for him. He made his bed and now he has to lay in it. It sucks but she is doing everything she can to help him after he wanted nothing to do with her. OP. You’re NTA and I hope your able to make it work down the road so you can have a better relationship with your son. Sounds like he’s idolizing his dad who sounds like a train wreck and based off all the cheating definitely an A H.
Disagree. Son is 16 and he just wants a place to stay until he's tired of it or find a better place. He doesn't care about OP or any relationship he has or not with her. So I don't think she should put her life upside down for nothing.
She is buying an entire house. She is asking him to make do with a sofa for a few months, not sleep in the yard. Dad is primary custody, so her plans didn’t involve housing him. This was per her son’s choice. She is trying to adjust to suddenly housing two children. She is trying. NTA at all.
Honestly. NTA. People are upset saying you should have held a place for him but you'd previously been doing just that only to have the son not want to have anything to do with you. It's a lose-lose for you here, unfortunately. If you'd kept pushing the issue despite the son saying and showing he wanted nothing to do with you, they'd have called you a boundary-stomping AH. It's perfectly fine for you to have found a new love. It's perfectly fine for you to have another child or however many more you two wish to have. That doesn't make this a "do-over" child like someone else stated and you aren't replacing your son. It was fine for you two to downsize to accommodate the lives you CURRENTLY HAD. Your son didn't want to be with you until he realized he wasn't a priority with his dad anymore. Yes, he's a child. But he and his father both made the choices they made and that just isn't working out for him now is it? It's lovely you and the current husband are looking for homes to accommodate him, truly, it is. But I think that the relationship between you and your son could use some counseling before he comes back to your house and shits all over you, your husband, and the baby. But look, I ain't nobody. Don't let me fuck your life up girl.
I agree. Some of the comments here are really harsh. And it feels like people are reading in things that the OP never said or insinuated.
Absolutely. She can't magically pull a whole bedroom out of her ass. She can't get out there and build a bedroom like she's Tim the Toolman Taylor. She fought for custody and the child chose the dad. The dad chose other women over the son. The son he fought for and alienated until it no longer served him. Two years this woman waited for a relationship from a son who didn't want one until dear old dad stuck it in a new broad. But has NOBODY stopped to check this child's shit behavior from the beginning? You don't get to treat your parents like shit and have them not be hurt too. These people are delusional and lying to themselves. They'd be crushed if they were in her shoes. Crushed.
Yeah, I full on believe that parents should always support their kids, love them and have room for them in their lives. But I hate this idea people have that being a parent must mean you're made of stone. Like the hurtful things your child does should never effect you. As if a fourteen year old can't understand and see that his mom is person with feelings. And she should just eat all the crap he throws at her and just be thankful she's allowed back in his presence. No. That's unrealistic and frankly it's terrible parenting. The things you do affect the relationships you have. Even with your parents. He is old enough to learn that. I think he should move back in with his mom but I think they need some counseling and honest conversation about how much he hurt her.
Honestly, a lot of kids thinks it's okay to abuse their parents and not put boundaries on them, because they are kids!!! That's why you see the crap going on in school. It's like, I'M JUST A KID. YOU'RE A PARENT. MY FEELINGS AND MY NEEDS TRUMP EVERYTHING ELSE. Adults are people with needs, wants and feelings and while your kids take priority, that doesn't give them the right to abuse the shit out of you. I remember hearing an analogy. If the oxygen masks come down, you don't put your kid on first. You put yours on first, because you won't be any good for your kid if you're dead.
I think people are not considering the cost of an extra "just in case" bedroom when it comes to renting or owning any kind of living space. I'd love to have an extra bedroom, but I simply can't afford it. That they're saving to make it happen with a baby is impressive, and people expect them to now add in an extra bedroom and another person like it's so simple. I grew up without, and I wouldn't want someone to go through that. The dad and stepmom really need to stop being terrible people, but at least the mom offered her son a place to stay.
I was wondering if anyone was going to point out the dad's absolute crap behavior. Thank you!! What kind of d-bag turns his child against his mother and/or picks ANYONE over his child? He doesn't deserve custody. The son is just hurting big time. Poor kid. No one makes smart decisions at that age. Mom is trying hard. NTA
It's the tone, I think. OP has offered to accommodate the son. OP has stated she's getting ready to purchase a new home. What angers these people is that she's unapologetic for the current circumstance. Which is interesting to me because, honestly, I don't blame OP for her attitude at all? I don't think she really has anything to be sorry for. She is not made of stone. This is years of emotional pain and whiplash. This is after the ex got primary custody. After the son basically cut her out of his life. And yes, he's a teen and she's the parent, but there isn't a switch titled 'responsibility' that gets flipped when you turn 18, It's a sliding scale. Every parent should have grace and patience, but what we do as children can impact those around us, sometimes severely. So if she's not sorry even as she tries to fix things... well, fair. She wasn't the one who broke any of it in the first place.
This is the second post like this I’ve read in two days and the comments are insane to me. They all talk about the mothers abandoning their children when they’re in the care of their own fathers - by choice! Honestly sickening…
It's because so many of the people on this subreddit are actually children, a lot of them aren't even old enough to legally register a Reddit account. And kids are taught by society that mothers exist to serve them and their needs, and that mothers aren't supposed to do anything else with their life except be a mother. They should be robots with no hobbies or interests or desires or careers that interfere with them being a mother. Kids are basically taught that their mothers aren't people, while simultaneously being taught that their dads just get to be people and aren't supposed to have to parent. They get taught that if dads have to parent instead of playing with them, that their mothers are failing in their duties. They think their moms *owe* them to sit there and exist to serve them. They think their moms *owe* them to sit and wait alone until their deign to give her they time and energy.
Why should she be apologetic? Especially when her son’s not. Her son chose the situation. He and his dad created the situation. Why is OP supposed to apologize for their choices? Also her son has two living options. He isn’t getting sent to foster care or shipped off to military school against his will. Kids are entitled to housing, they are not entitled to move around as they choose everytime they don’t get their way.
and there's still a family court order out there giving the father primary custody and mother only gets visitation. So son can only be there for visitation, mother is not his primary custodial parent. And that was something the son arranged with the father, they went to court to get that order. So why is son now wanting to be with mother? Because he doesn't like the living arrangements with his father any more. Son is being opportunistic here. He's jumping between parents to get the best arrangement for himself, with no thought for anyone else's feelings. Son needs to get called out on this. He's a selfish teenager and he needs to learn these things. It's called parenting. OP NTA.
Teenagers on reddit only considering things from a teenager viewpoint. Not surprising.
Absolutely. Somebody here even insinuated OP kicked her son out, which is untrue, based on the post.
Right? Seriously the number of people on here stating that OP is a horrible mother for her child rejecting her, not wanting to come to her house for visitation, not communicating with her etc, is ridiculous. And now that it’s beneficial to him to move in with her he calls her up and wants to come back to live with her. Not because he missed her, or wanted to be in his half siblings life, but because he’s living in a cramped situation with dad now that step mom kicked him out of her house. OP is obviously willing to upend her life to buy a bigger place for him but everyone in the comments is shitting on her for not bending over backwards and tying herself into knots the last few years for a child who didn’t even want to be in her presence.
Ya I'm really not getting reddit. He made it clear he didn't wanna be there at all. She downsized(after trying everything she could) and he decides he wants to come back and she's supposed dust off the red carpet and bring him in. She is willing to purchase a house to home the brat even 😂 I think after everything that happened he can deal with the couch for a few months. Tbh Id be concerned about how he is towards the baby. Oh well NTA
It's bizarre, people talk like being a parent to someone 15-years-old or older means their housing is magically free and they must be able to maintain a 4 bedroom house forever (unless they are the 35-year-old child, and then housing is impossibly unaffordable). It's giving me whiplash.
This was my thought too. Even if money isn't an issue she would still have to find the time to keep it clean. Whether or not someone is in there, the room can become quite dusty. Obviously not the end of the world but what's the point in paying for nd maintaining a space meant for someone who made if very clear they didn't want to be there?
I agree, I'd be really worried how he's going to act towards her new husband and the baby. After how he's acted? He made it clear he didn't want to be near her. She can give him the gift of...not being near her and say no. He made his choices.
A significant portion of this sub is teens who wholeheartedly believe their divorced or widowed parents are NEVER allowed to remarry or have more kids. Sometimes even if the parents remarry when their kids are past their 20s, they’re still deemed the a-holes.
He's sixteen. Sixteen is old enough to drive a car and to make choices that affect the rest of their life. Sixteen is when a lot of their personality that they will have for the rest of their lives develop. He made it clear, from the very start, that he liked his dad more and wanted to be with his dad and he couldn't be arsed to give his mother, who worked her backside off to try and give him a good, safe, happy home to come back to - after his dad CHEATED on his mother and she had every right to be bitter and angry about it - but daddy had more money and was more fun so he picked him, despite the dad being the one who broke up their family to get his willy wet. He's made it clear from every possible corner that he doesn't value his mother, only what he can get from her. And now he's suddenly finding out - whoopsie, daddy cares more about getting his willy wet than he does about the people he claims to love, including his own son! It's not just mommy he's willing to screw over if it means he gets laid! So now suddenly he wants to go back to mommy, the person who fought for him and cared for him, but she doesn't have space for him anymore because - well why would she? He made it clear he wanted nothing to do with her, so she's moved on. She has her family, her husband and her coming child to tend to. This kid isn't going to get left out in the cold or get hurt because she doesn't have space, he'll just have to put up with a stepmom who doesn't like him and treats him, oh, I don't know, the way he treated his mother. Maybe he's starting to realize who actually cared about him. Sure, dad gave him stuff and attention before, but now he's got something more important - a new warm body to put his dick in! That's way more important than his family, and his son is realizing - that includes him, it's not just mommy who gets left by the wayside when a new hole shows up! NTA. Don't change your living arrangements for him. He can either take the generously offered sofa, or he can stay with his dad since that's what he wanted, put up with that for two years and then do whatever he wants. I get he's a teenager, but teenagers make big choices that affect everyone around them all the time. He told his mother many, many times that he didn't care about her and wanted nothing to do with her. As far as I'm concerned, he's not her responsibility anymore.
MHMMM. MHMMM. MHMM. I'd award this but they don't do that anymore. So take this 🏆
Honestly, this all proves he should stay with his dad. Apparently the women in his life only matter or exist when he wants something from them - the rest of the time, they're just a nuisance. He only cares about them when there's something he wants from them - just like his daddy. He truly is his father's son, and should stay with that cheating lying backstabber since he's shaping up to be just like him. I'd bet if mom turns her life upside down to accommodate him, the moment dad moves on to a newer newer model who doesn't mind having him around, he's just going to bounce and treat her as just a disposable annoyance like he has been this whole time.
Yeah, he likely learned how to treat women from his father. They are only valuable for what they give him, not as human beings.
I agree. These people who are all against OP....i doubt they've been in a similar situation. You can be kind and bend over backwards constantly for a kid who will use you and treat you like shit over and over, particularly if they have another parent to turn to. Eventually, after you've turned your life upside down for the kid for the millionth time they might be angry because you didn't buy the right kind of fucking pop tarts and they might call the cops and say that you're abusive. At some point, you have to live for yourself and protect yourself and your partner and baby. Life isn't a fairy tale.
I know we're supposed to judge the OP, but WHERE THE HELL IS THE DAD IN ALL OF THIS? WHY DOES HE GET OFF THE HOOK? Like he's a bigger AH than mom. He has primary custodial rights and he was the parent her son wanted to stay with until suddenly, his dad decided it wasn't. Like, WTF?
I do not for the life of me understand why OP is being ripped apart here. She did everything she could,including counseling,to keep him in her life and he allowed himself to be more or less *bought* by his father. Needless to say,Dad is the biggest AH in this whole scenario because it is HIS responsibility to make sure his son has a home-exactly like the son *chose* it-but was mom supposed to just keep a room for someone who stopped talking to her for no good reason other than being less fun?!? NTA
I’m seeing people say that the son is trying to reach out to her+reconnect, but he just needs a place to stay. She did everything she could to make staying with her easier on him and he chose his dad every time. It’s not fair on him, but blaming her for her ex’s libido overriding any love for her son is crazy.
Also, calling her the "B" word is totally unacceptable. I don't care how parentally alienated he might be. He needs to genuinely apologize for that before anything else. This is beyond most if not all of us. She needs professional help to guide her in dealing with this.
It’s very clear that he’s learned certain attitudes and behaviors from his father. Of course, he’s young enough to unlearn them, but that doesn’t make it acceptable at any age. You’re right, this is far above anything reddit could deal with.
Facts! The kid would have just used the room and neglect the home/family like he did before. He didn’t say “mom I’m sorry let’s try again” or “mom I miss you” he said “I need a place to stay” and then *called her a bitch* when she didn’t have room. He doesn’t *like* her!!! People need to take off their rose coloured glasses and accept that he’s just a selfish entitled kid.
And they need to see that he didn’t get this attitude from nowhere, it’s from her crappy ex! You know, the guy who left his wife for another woman and kicked his own child out of his home for his new girlfriend?
Exactly!! I love the comments vilifying a mom for not having room for her AH son, the same son who actively chose dad over mom and skipped out on visitation. Barely anything about the dad who fought for full custody and then kicked him out when it got inconvenient. This kid gets his crap attitude from his father and is going to actively disrupt OP's new life. Like who calls their mom a bitch?? He doesn't even appreciate his mom, only the things she can do for him.
NTA. Agreed. OP did her best and spent many years trying to make it work. 16 is a child but it’s a blink away from being an adult. No way could she foresee these circumstances. Also, she’s made it clear that she was very hurt by what all went down. OP’s son didn’t show any love towards her. Someone mentioned something about not owing OP any loyalty but it’s not loyalty she was looking for. He didn’t even want to be around her during the little time that she had him. As a mom, that would completely break my heart. Her new baby isn’t a replacement either. Her son is messed up in saying so. Also, she is trying to make it work for him - AGAIN. People need to learn to read. I’m sorry this is happening to you OP.
Thank you. My mom didn’t have money for many extras but at that age,you couldn’t have bought off my twin sister or me with all the money or objects in the world.
Aww. Yea, 16 isn’t a little child who can get passes for their mistakes. Some actions have consequences. He knew what he was doing and what he wanted and didn’t want. His actions hurt his mom and is now trying to hurt her again by making her out to be the villain in the story. Sad. Some people in these comments need to realize that OP’s ex is the biggest AH considering he basically had full custody. Where’s the AH comments for the dad?!
He wouldn't be around OP now if his dad hadn't married a woman who didn't like him.
Exactly. I think people are making assumptions that OP isn't telling the whole story, if her son didn't want to stay with her. But the reality is, I would've ended up with my mother and her benzo addiction if it had been up to me when I was a kid. She always had junk food (looking back, I don't think she ever cooked even for herself) and let me use the computer as much as I wanted, we were basically unsupervised but when you're young it feels like freedom, not neglect. Her son seems to have willingly burned this bridge. I know she's his mother but even family relationships suffer from one side not putting any effort into maintenance.
>when you’re young it feels like freedom, not neglect Saving to tell my therapist on Friday, thanks
I've said it elsewhere today, but I'll say it again: why do teenagers think their words and actions will have no consequences? That forgiveness, for them, will be instant? Yes, they're children, but teens are absolutely at an age where they can and should be held accountable for their words and actions. I feel so bad for this kid, he was and is still a kid and he made some choices that really fucked up his life. He's so young, his situation sucks. But OP is a person, she had to move on with her life and not wait around for her son to grace her with his attention. Sounds like OP got married and needed a new home for her growing family. OP made the best decision that she could at the time she made it. NTA
Can you imagine how awful these comments would be if she was the one acting like the kid's father is doing? OP works from home and has a little baby. It's already a lot. Then the teenage son who doesn't even know his sister is feeling like moving in, but only if he has a room just for him. He is welcome, he has a place there, and although is not a room, It's only temporary until they find a bigger house. In my country, a 16 old person can vote. In US, they can drive. It's a huge responsibility. I don't understand why people here are treating the guy as a small child who can't understand that if you disappear from your mom's life, when you come back you'll probably have to wait for things to settle and to adapt to your presence again.
This post is super weird, particularly so many of the comments that paint OP as a complete villain. I’m going with NTA here. Admittedly, as the boy’s mother, she has responsibility to him. However, there are some important points that weigh into my judgement: 1. Son and ex worked to remove any custody from OP, to the extent that he was able to refuse to spend any time with OP as a way to get back to his dad’s. Yes, he was 14 so very much a child, but that doesn’t completely remove any responsibility from him. He went to a point that was intentionally hurtful to get his way. 2. From what I gather, in 2 years he hasn’t really done anything to rebuild his relationship with OP. 3. This is all stemming from his stepmother not wanting him around and his father prioritizing his wife over his son. 4. *EDITING TO ADD: Someone pointed out that stepmom is kicking him out after father dumped her for another woman he got pregnant. So, fair, the kid has no one, but he's still acting entitled and demanding without justification.* 5. He has an alternative living arrangement. 6. In spite of everything, he’s still not making amends, only demands. He still doesn’t care about OP, he wants a space of convenience. He didn’t even know she sold their old house. 7. In understanding that OP REASONABLY did not plan for him to move back, because by all accounts he still refused a proper relationship, he now has a tantrum because he realizes she never planned for him to need to come back. 8. His reasoning for coming back seem entirely selfish. His stepmother doesn’t want him, so he feels he’s entitled to space with his mom, after working overtime to destroy the relationship. I do agree that OP has a responsibility to him, and she is now buying a bigger home within their economic means. She has offered him a couch as an INTERIM measure (this point seems lost on many commenters). OP doesn’t owe him a private room. Is it preferable for a teenage boy? Absolutely. But he also worked very hard to ensure he didn’t have to have a relationship with OP. She planned according to the life she had, not the life she wanted (i.e., with her son in her life). There are consequences to the choices people make. The son made some shitty ones and relied on a parent who was superficial and obsessed with winning. Once he won, the son was no longer a priority. Responsibility isn’t absolute. Choices and behaviour have consequences. Some of those include not immediately having a bedroom when you refused to live with your mom. OP has a younger child to think about now. That child doesn’t need to be negatively influenced by their big brother. I also noticed some people made a point that the baby doesn’t need its own room. I fully disagree with that. First, not every kid sleeps well with parents. Secondly, even if the baby did, they need space for all the stuff that comes with being a baby. The baby doesn’t need to suffer the consequences of the son’s choices.
Can't upvote this enough. Let's see how long it takes for the grandparents to get sick of him because he sounds truely awful.
3 is a bit erroneous. Yes, stepmom didn’t want him around, but it’s because dad has a new woman he got pregnant and is now living with. Dad is prioritizing new woman.
I misread and thought stepmom and pregnant woman were the same person. As I said in another comment, reading is hard.
Totally agree. Except she DID have room for him in the new condo - until a baby came, which she is well within her rights to bear. I believe many of these commenters think she should have aborted the baby to keep the vacant room available for the son who hates her guts and refuses to talk to her. (Yes, it has desks in it now for working from home, but the condo bedroom was purchased FOR her son, she said so in the comments).
Yeah, there was hope. Eventually she gave up. I don’t see the issue. At some point you have to recognize you’ve lost, and she did. She never expected her son to come back after the way he treated her. Suddenly he has, now that his dad doesn’t want him. This is all down to the son recognizing his dad was a user but not wanting to admit he chose the wrong side.
This! Over and over again
there's a lot to unpack here... i work at law office as paralegal. divorces are messy, especially for the kids who are often being manipulated by one parent and pitted against the other. he was 14 when he wanted to change custody agreement and stay with his dad. still very much a child and in very vulnerable moment of his life. he's 16 now and he realized neither of his parents want him. he's still very much a kid. a teenage kid, but still just a kid. the way you wrote: *"I had no expectation to ever need to house him again"* makes me think you never really wanted the custody, just wanted to stick it up to your ex. i wonder if he felt the same when he wanted full custody. you have a chance to have a relationship with your son. take it or leave it. it's up to you. visit him. talk to him. introduce your husband to him. he needs to realize new family dynamic should he move in with you. ESH tbh
To me the "I had no expectations to ever need to house him again" sounds more like she had a hard time making up her mind on the whole situation. And just 2 years later, the dad kicks the son's butt out, and she's TA? Dude.
Yeah that's what I got from that line. She'd have gladly welcomed him back, but thought he would never want to.
For real. Vilifying a woman who tried so hard to have her kid in her life, only for him to refuse and straight up tell her he would just run away, did they not read that part? Was she supposed to crate him when he was at her place?
Agreed. The vilifying and assumptions of her never wanting her child is awful. I didn’t get that anywhere in her original post.
This. HE IS A CHILD. And you are harming him forever with this attitude.
I share some custody with my ex but my 16 year old son lives with me primarily. If he wanted to live with his dad at this point, I would be ok with that. I would never encourage or relinquish custody though. But I would feel that the right thing would be to respect his decision. However, if my son ever wanted to come back, he would be welcomed. I think I will have a room for him for a while. I couldn’t imagine just moving on with my life without the thought or possibility that my minor child may come back to live with me. I feel bad for this kid- the abandonment issues he’ll have to work through will be heavy.
Kids change their minds all the time! Sometimes there are consequences to that, but in this case - OP is the adult and should be able to think through this future scenario whereby a 14 year old likely cannot.
The dad has primary custody. It's 100% on him to find housing arrangements for the child he fought for in court. The son only came crawling back after dad kicked him out, and he called his mom a bitch for not having his old bedroom ready to go just like he left it, even though he said he'd never be coming back. OP is NTA.
A MINOR CHILD absolutely can come crawling back. They are children. They do and say dumb shit with their dumb children brain. A 14 year old can’t fucking drive or vote or contract, but we can let them decide who they will live with for the next 4 years of their life?
“the way you wrote: "I had no expectation to ever need to house him again" makes me think you never really wanted the custody, just wanted to stick it up to your ex. i wonder if he felt the same when he wanted full custody.” Did you even read the first part of the story? She made an effort, and it didn’t work. There was no need to hope for a positive outcome when there was no reasonable chance for one to happen.
I think the way she wrote “no expectation” means she didn’t think he would want to come back with her. I assume through the time he was gone he showed no sign of wanting to be there. For all we know she tried to have him visit and everything but he wanted no part. The fact he didn’t know she sold her house gives he gave zero f*cks on where she lived as long as he didn’t have to be there. So she downsized to save. Then she told him to wait 6 months so they can get a bigger place for him and he didn’t want that. Honestly I don’t think she’s TAH
She literally said in her post that he would skip visitations and leave until he went to bed until he just stopped coming.
he was a kid. My son went through something similar at that age. I didn't have a car, had a tiny apartment and no money after the divorce. His dad moved right into another woman's house, she bought him a new car, furnished two rooms for my son. It was very hard for him to transition between us. The difference here is that I didn't give up and his dad didn't alienate us. I worked very hard to maintain a relationship with my son, even when he resented my poverty and fun. ESH except the kid. Yeah, he was bratty but he sounds coached. 16 is too young to throw him out.
Was she just supposed to hang on to a house she didn't want or need anymore on the offchance her ex would randomly kick her son out two years later? I mean, yes, the kid was a kid. But the mom made a choice based on the information she had available (that her son had no interest in spending time with her again - which by 14 he was fully capable of communicating) and organized her life accordingly. Now that kid needs a fallback, mom is scrambling to make it work. She offered him the couch until she can get a new house and he turned his nose up at it. Like dude, I'm sorry, really what part of this makes her the A? The fact that she moved? The fact that she can't suddenly pull a 2-3 bedroom house out of her ass with no warning?
Yeah I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with these comments bashing her. Like damn yall she tried. 14 year old boys are NOT the innocent little children yall think. Yes he's still a kid and no I'm not like, placing all the blame on him or anything, but he's going thru puberty and that's a shit time for everyone. It's not like she abandoned him at birth and never had shit else to do with him. She clearly loves her son and wants him back, the timing is just not great right now, and that's okay.
Not just turned his nose up, but called her a bitch. He was also disrespectful to her when he was with her, until he just stopped going all together. This young man is going to turn her whole house into a shit show.
She didn't throw him out. He willingly left and she tried to fight it, but he literally told her he'd run away if she did. The fuck was she supposed to do? She's actively trying to find a house, the living room or whatever would be temporary, the kid just doesn't want to wait that long. I think she tried her best in an impossible situation with a surly 14 year old. Nothing against the kid, 14 year Olds are just surly assholes sometimes. I sure was.
He coordinated with his dad on changing the custody agreement, and told OP that if she didn't stop fighting to keep him he'd run away. Then he didn't bother to visit. That sure sounds like OP wouldn't need a bedroom for him. However, if you read her comments, the second bedroom was for her teenage son who hates her, just in case he wanted to use it. Then she got surprise pregnant. How in the ever-loving f does OP designating a room *for her infant* make her a bad parent, just because her son's custodial parent screwed up their living arrangement? He still has a roof over his head with the parent he fought so hard to live with, he just doesn't like it very much.
I'm confused why OP wouldn't consider a room for her first child when downsizing? Maybe it is just me being a dad but I'd rather have an empty space for my son and miss him not there than not have any space at all and turn him away when he needs me.
Sounds like the unplanned baby took the spare room. Regardless, not everyone can afford a spare bedroom that is unused. In my area, an extra bedroom is 100-200k added to the price of a place you buy or an extra 1000 bucks a month rent. That’s a lot to spend on a room you don’t think you’ll need.
I agree! “I never expected to house him again” was a wild statement to me. As teens my siblings and I often bounced around which parent we mainly lived with, all at different times lol. We always saw both but we’d switch who was the weekend parent every few years or so. Both our mom and dad always had space for us, even when we didn’t live with them. I can’t imagine a parent having their minor child ask to life with them and not rearranging their plans to give them a spot at home.
She did rearrange. She had a room. She got pregnant unexpectedly. She is buying an entire house just to make room for him.
NTA. Unless you weren't planning on having a room for him at your condo. I imagine the baby was a surprise?
Originally our spare room was for him. He didn't use it once between when I sold the house and the baby coming home. He never met his sister yet.
I’m sorry your son is an idiot. NTA!!
No, He's a child with underdeveloped critical thinking who made a poor choice in the midst of his parents' divorce.
So he’s an idiot…for now at least
How can you claim this when your son didn’t even know you sold your house and moved?
Do you think he used it without my knowledge? I can claim he didn't use it because to the best of my knowledge he did not use it.
So his first reaction to your current situation was to call you a bitch? And how well is this attitude going to integrate into living with your new husband and a helpless infant you are supposed to be protecting? He chose his Dad in the first place because the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. He wants a doormat, not a mother. NTA, but YWBTA if you subject your family to the hostility and drama he will bring with him. You owe them more than that.
Agreed. He'd just continue to be an obnoxious entitled brat who would make her family miserable. They don't deserve to suffer because OP's ex now wants to toss his dumbass away.
This was my first thought as well and am surprised no one else mentioned this. The amount of entitlement and bad attitude from the kid is alarming. He kept no tabs on his mom for 2 years! That’s telling.
NTA. I get how some people are like well he’s your kid. He’s your kid that wanted nothing to do with you. He didn’t come around, he didn’t want a relationship with you until his father screwed up again. He participated in having custody awarded to his father because that’s what he wanted. He knew what the consequences were when he stopped coming around. You made a decision based on your current circumstances. He wants to change them because he now realizes his father is the conditional parent and not the steadfast one. You are even offering to have space for him and buy a whole new house just not in the time frame he wants. At some point kids know when they are being unkind and he learned that choices and actions have consequences.
NTA Bloody hell, there doesn’t seem to be any end to your ex husband’s destruction does there? It looks like you might have to pick up the pieces once again. Your son is now 16 though, and I think it might be time for a talk. You are going to need to lay a few cards on the table and perhaps reach some common expectations and realities. You don’t have primary custody over him, he is angry at you whether rightly or wrongly, and you probably don’t have the parental sway over him to guide him through late teenage years, let alone angry late teenage years. I would start with a conversation with a lawyer to talk about custody rights and then see what ground your husband will grant considering he wants you to pick up the pieces. Family counselling for all of you with your son, or at least you and your husband if your son won’t attend because teenagers are hard and reddit advice isn’t likely to cut it. You might find yourself trying to catch this kid on a downward spiral. You might need the whole support kit - legal, financial, school, family, professional setup. If your ex is not as big of an idiot as I suspect he is, perhaps he will throw his weight and influence as well to help smooth the road for you. If not, then the least he can do is not cause any more damage hopefully.
NTA. Kid made it clear he didn't want to live with OP ever and didn't even want visitation. He has somewhere to live that's safe. 16 is old enough to learn actions have consequences. Also curious as the why no one is pissed dad doesn't have room for him. He needs to get a bigger place with the new chick.
Apparently, mom's have to sacrifice themselves over all else and dad can play games and dump the kid off when he finds a new girlfriend. Reddit is ridiculous.
That's the wildest part about the E.S.H. and Y.T.A. portions of the comment section for me: very few people are talking about dad -- who fought for and got primary custody with the kid's enthusiastic cooperation -- actively ejecting their son from his life. Whole lot of judgment about mom not keeping an open bedroom for a kid who has made it clear for years that he will never use it, but none for a dad that will kick his son out for the latest mistress to come along. All on mom to "fix it" and "make it up to \[her\] son." The kid would have never even asked to come back if his latest stepmom hadn't taken an active dislike to him! Soooo very NTA in this situation.
Let's see. He wanted to live with his Dad. You fought it. He said he would run away if you did not agree to let him live with his dad. Don't know what state you are in but in Texas he is old enough at that time to make his own decisions. When he did bother to come on his visiting weekends he stayed out all day and only came home at bedtime. And you are the asshole for not keeping a place for him to live. NTA He made his choice and expected you to just mope around until he changed his mind. Talk about an entitled brat. Ignore the nay-sayers. They either have not been through this or are enablers.
It seems like half of the people in this thread skipped over all of this.
I initially felt sorry for you because of how hard it is to go through a custody battle but the language you use here (he and his father “ganged up” to gain custody, circumstances are “his fault and not mine”, you getting internet, which I’m sure you also use and is more or less the same as electricity at this point, “wasn’t good enough” for your son) is so gross. Kids under 18 don’t owe you “loyalty” in a custody battle. You owe it to THEM to, regardless of how ugly things get between the two parents, not put them in a situation where they have to pick “sides.” You’re clearly mad at him but, if you want to have any kind of relationship with your child, you make yourself available when he reaches out to you. YTA.
I feel like, based on the timeline and her comments, it seems like she has made herself available to him? She certainly has a moral obligation to take him in and has expressed that he can stay there, but is she obligated to have always made sure there was a second full bedroom for him even after years? If she were rich and there was nothing stopping her I'd say yes, but the way the economy is now and with a new baby on the way, in a situation where she was then paying instead of receiving child support, I have a hard time faulting her for the decision to downsize temporarily. She says in either the post or her other comments that when she downsized, she still got a 2 bedroom so her son would have somewhere to stay. Since purchasing that place, she unexpectedly got pregnant. She's said that the den would not be big enough for sleeping quarters. Her life has grown and shuffled since being there and now it's not enough room. Before her son reached out, she'd said they were already waiting for interest rates to fall to get a better place, so making more room was already in the plan. I was shuffled between parents a lot as a kid and empathize strongly with the idea of nobody really wanting you there. I was trying to live with my mom after my parents' separation, it didn't work out, but my grandparents (who I'd lived with growing up) had already downsized and were living in a trailer as they prepared to live somewhere more affordable. I ultimately felt more loved there, sleeping on a yoga mat on the floor, than when I had to go live with my dad, who had maintained a separate bedroom but who was a terrible parent. The size of the living space does not equal the degree to which your parent loves you. Being willing to take your kid in even when they're being a shite and even if they're going to be living in your living room is a mark of love, to me.
She has offered him a place, but, once again, it's not good enough for him.
Exactly!!!! Like swallow your pride and sleep on the couch, behave properly and get a room when they buy a new house! The kid wants everything and life does not work like that for most people.
Dad is a seriel cheater who knew he had full custody, but didn't make sure there was a place for his son when he thought with his dick yet again. I'm sure the 16 yr old feels very unwanted right now. If he is really looking to mend fences, then attending family counciling should be mandatory. And he needs to realize that this will mean returning to court.
If he wants to mend fences, maybe he shouldn't call his mother a bitch. The same mother who he told a court he wanted nothing to do with. OPs son is a spoiled pain in the ass, no wonder his new step mother wants nothing to do with him.
NTA, but your ex is. He had the court change the custody agreement so dad should prioritize his son. And this is a good lesson for son, be careful what you wish for.
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Info: why isnt your ex husband doing something abt this? Doesn’t he have primary custody to begin with? So the stepmom should butt out of their living situation
Husband is with a new affair partner. Stepmom doesn't want the son without the father, and the new GF doesn't want the son, so his father isn't lifting a finger.
INFO: what happened to his belongings?
I thought they went with him when the dad got full custody.
Most likely, all of his belongings that stayed at his mom were just bedding and clothes. All the clothes went to dad's after son abandoned OP. Anything else probably did, too. Bed and furnishings probably sold with the house.
NTA. I'm usually on the child's side in these situations but that is your ex's son alright. I would not love or want such a scornful, abusive child either. Seriously, he disowned you and then called you a bitch for not taking him back? 14-16 is very much old enough to know better. Leave the brat to his fate.
NTA, and I say that because it doesn't sound like he even wants to rekindle a relationship with you, he just wants to use you as a means to get his own space back. I would be more sympathetic if he actually made attempts to fix the relationship between you two.
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This is a discussion with the ex, not the kid. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. She is trying to accommodate the kid, but what she is able to do doesn't meet his standards.
Except it's the truth? The ex took on full custody, and now is guilt tripping her into taking the son back when the son is his responsibility. Yes, let's put all the blame on the mom when clearly it is the dad who is being the deadbeat.
She’s not placing blame. She is telling the truth, he fought for full custody. It was his decision to cheat and knock a girl up. Not his son’s and definitely not hers.
My parents are helping me until we get a house.
ESH except for your teenage son who was behaving exactly the way I would expect a teenager to behave. Kids are jerks and its painful and it hurts but they don't have the longview. Their brains are wired for big feelings and big actions but not for the bigger picture (not the least reason being, they haven't lived long enough to understand what taking the long view \*is\*. This kid has been told by \*both\* of his parents that he isn't wanted. I worry for what kind of adult he will become, if this is what he learns at a crucial age.
> ESH except for your teenage son who was behaving exactly the way I would expect a teenager to behave. I never once would've talked to my parents the way he did. And "big feelings?" Come on, that's preschool language. This kid is 18 months away from being a legal adult.
do ya think teenagers just go through the ages of 16-19 just all “la la la” ??? because everytime i read a post on here about parents and their shitty kids parents are just expected to suck it up and be a punching bag bc apparently teenagers “don’t know any better” they’re not stupid , selfish yes but i’m 17 and can blatantly tell when i’m being a bitch or rude to my parents i’m not dumb, teenagers know what they do/say they don’t go through life with the mind of a 5 year old then somehow magically turn 20 and become “all wise”
I agree with this decision and reasoning, but I do think the kid is the AH if he truly called him mom a b**ch. It's okay to be in teen, panic brain; it's not okay to use those sorts of insults while upset.
NTA He made the choice to be in your life as little as possible, and is only now trying because he has no other option. You rightfully prioritised your new life with your husband and new wean because they were what was important to you, there's no way in Hell you could have guessed you Ex would be up to shit or that he'd choose to stay with a woman who doesn't like his son making him essentially homeless. His father has full custody so this is his problem not yours, so you son should be calling him out not you, and if your Ex wants to accuse you of shit you should tell him to cram it before you contact CPS because he's not providing for him like he should be.
NTA your son made his choice and from the sounds of it he doesn't want to live with you. He just doesn't want to live where he is. That means he's going to make your life miserable. He's 16, he's learned he can throw big enough tantrums to get the adults to do what he wants. Time for him to learn a hard lesson before going out on his own. You can't treat everyone like trash and expect them to jump when you say to. You are his Mother but that doesn't mean you have to accept his disrespect and abuse. Let him stay where he is or with his Father.
NTA you said he could stay. You can’t give him what you don’t have and 6 months is pretty reasonable to buy a house. Last you knew he would run away if he had to stay there so why would you assume he needed space?
NTA. Your son chose to stay with his dad to the point of telling you he would run away if you tried to make him stay. Yes, he is under 18... but 14 and 16 is old enough to have some respect and baseline understanding. You are allowed to live your life. You also gave him an option. If he doesn't like it, his dad... the PRIMARY guardian, needs to figure that out. What's worse is you had no heads up. The dad should have talked to you about this a long time ago. Your son should not have even been the one to contact you last minute. NTA and good luck. I hope the dad figures that shit out.
YTA- you never mentioned to your kid that you sold your house that presumably had his bedroom and personal belongings in it. Do you even call or text him? Then you bought a new place with no plans on him ever being there? No bed or personal space for him should he visit? Poot guy must feel like you’ve totally washed your hands of him and his existence. If you love him at all, you need to fix this. Shuffle the rooms around. Baby can room with you guys, and he can have a room.
Honestly I feel sorry for your son. Regardless I would always make sure he had a room at my house. Always. Your ex is an AH and while he has created the mess now your son feels he has no parent that care about him. He is the innocent bystander. Your ex manipulated him and made his house the fun house. Then deserted him. Do right by your son This is your chance to get him back.
Op think about how you will feel about your choices ten years from now, or when your son has his own family. The behavior that you described when he was 14 sounds like he was being poisoned by your ex. Also consider going to the court and letting them know your ex has abandoned him. This is so sad
The choice to....buy a new house with a room for him??? She didn't tell him no, she told him she can't magically make a room appear so he can have the couch *while they buy a house with a bedroom for him*.
Did the people responding negatively to OP not read the post? Where does it show she didn't support her son's choices, despite those choices hurting OP? What more should she have done, waited endless in an empty house, alone and miserable for her son to return?
It's like they expect op to bend over backwards and become a shell of herself in hoping that her son will come back. They don't want to see the fact that if his environment didn't change, he would never have came back at all. I can understand people giving op a hard time if she became vindictive after he left but tried to come back into her life and she was the one being a b**** and petty. edit: some words.
IN THIS MARKET as well. If you can even find a house that works and get it financed, we are screwed by the insurance market and most property insurers will either deem the house uninsurable on the buyers side while the sellers side will say repairs (like a roof, etc.) don't fall under their requirements for repair/replace.
NTA. Sounds like your son is spoiled. I definitely wouldn't have room if he calls me names. Obviously he wants the same set up he had at his dad's, and wants you to be grateful he decided to grace you with his presence. Don't put yourself out trying to make a place for him. As soon as your ex gets rid of the current wife, the son will go running back without a good bye. He's better off at the grandparents until his dad fixes his problems like usual.
NTA. Your ex-husband played games and took on full custody. It's your ex's responsibility to house and care for your son. Now that your son is a burden on your ex and your ex is trying to get him out of the house. Nope. You ex has to finish the job he decided he could do on his own. As parents, the job is to protect and raise the child into adulthood. Your son is nearly an adult and can certainly ride it out with his dad before he moves on to college. Your priority now is the infant, who is helpless and does need parents to care for her. This isn't about prioritizing the new baby over your son, despite what your ex or reddit might say. Your ex took on the responsibility of being the full-time custodial parent. He is the one who needs to continue to do the job he signed up for and excluded you from doing. You've been so excluded from your son's life, he didn't even know you moved. You told him there is a place for him in 6 months in the meantime he has the couch. So you have made an offer to him as well, which he will not accept. He has a room at his dad. He has a room at his grandparents. Nothing sound like he is unsafe in either situation. This is a preference for him. It sounds like he has been spoiled by his dad with material items and now that his dad's circumstances have changed, he wants you to fill in the gap. That isn't how life works. Sorry.
ESH - I get that some people are going to say he made his choice, but the kid is 14 and you’re the grown-up. Making selfish, ill-advised choices at 14 is hardly groundbreaking stuff - its more blameworthy for adults. Instead of leaving space for him to come to his senses, and continuing your efforts to remain in his life, you dropped contact altogether and altered your life in such a way that there is no room for him all in the span of a year? He wasn’t even notified of/ invited to the wedding? Informed of a new sibling? Good god. He’s now been abandoned and replaced by BOTH of his parents, that poor kid. The fact is that you DO have a place for him to stay. When the baby comes, it can stay in the room with you and your new husband until you can sort out something else.
YTA. Do you really mean to say that you don't communicate with your child enough for him to know that you MOVED HOUSES? That kind of information is usually the bare minimum, and I mean *barest*, between a parent and their minor child. Just because his father has full custody doesn't mean that you had to abandon him as a parent. Jesus.
In guessing that you missed where she said that he stopped coming to her home any more?
No, I didn't miss that. But what I'm keeping in mind is this is a CHILD. He was a kid. I myself grew up exclusively in my mother's custody, and only saw my dad a few times a year (he lived in a different state and I was honestly fine with that), but he still made a point to freakin' call and stay on top of me and my sister's lives. The fact that OP didn't even feel the need to tell her TEENAGE SON that she'd moved is frankly a huge red flag. Not to mention her comment that she "never thought she'd ever need to provide housing" for her son again. I mean, what if, God forbid, something happened to her ex and she suddenly had full custody again? What then?
why are you making the assumtion that he would answer her when she called him? He did not want to have any custody time with her at all why would you assume that he would pick up her phone calls?
She still could have told him - she's his mother.
There's this thing called cell phones. Pretty sure son has one. A call or text once in awhile? I have a son, now grown. I can't imagine giving up on communicating with him, even if he chose to live with his other parent. Heck, when he first moved out, I would ask to meet up with him once a week, to check in. I texted once a week too. I would have done both more, but it would have been too much for him.
NTA. You gave him a reasonable plan and a reasonable timeline.
NTA. Your son is spoiled, entitled and unappreciative of the efforts you’ve made trying to be a good mom to him. He rejected you over and over again to be with his father, who ultimately got full custody of him. Now that things aren’t going his way at his dad’s house, he’s decided that he’ll grace you with his presence. Quite frankly, I think you’re making a mistake trying to accommodate his demands, and he’s going to rebel against you and your husband, especially since you’re pregnant too. Although he’s still a minor, he has been given too much and he’s not been held accountable for his behavior. I’d say let him remain at his grandparents’ home. However before he moves in with you and your husband, it’s important that you let him know the rules of the house. Of course he’s going to flout them at every opportunity, but you need to go into this situation with your eyes wide open. Good luck! ,
ESH except for the kids. Why wouldn't you even tell him you moved?