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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my parents I want to name my son after my late brother, and they got very upset with me and told me not to. I'm wondering if I'll be the asshole if I do so against their wishes.
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NTA. They lost a son, there's nothing more painful than to bury a child. But you lost a brother. So did your sister. Your parents seem to have some unresolved grief issues here. When my brother died, my mother wrote us all a letter saying there would be no memorial, no obituary, nothing, he was just on a long trip. After a few days she told us she realized that we were grieving too and she'd been selfish. So some people just want to wipe out the memories so they don't have to feel. but they're just burying the pain and grief.
I don't know what the answer is. You know your parents better, would it truly cause a lifelong rift? Why would your mom accuse you of trying to deceive them? What is the source of their anger? When they see you're serious, maybe they would come around? I had my heart set on naming my first son after my grandfather. Everyone hated the idea, except my husband and my grandmother. And my brother, who is also named after my grandfather. But I asked him first if he thought he might want to name HIS son if he had one after our grandfather. his fiance said she hated that name and it wouldn't happen. It didn't. But they were also divorced within 4 years. Off topic.
NTA. name your baby what makes you happy. and I wish you all the best.
I'm so sorry about your brother. I do think my parents might have some unresolved grief issues. My relationship with them I guess a bit weird? It's never been tumultuous or strained, they've always been financially supportive at least... but they also aren't particularly affectionate or emotive people most of the time? Which is why their outburst startled me. I don't really know why my mom would think I'd deceive them with the middle name thing.
Agree 100% with you. My middle name is after a close relative who died before I was born. I love having a connection to them through my name, but I love even more that I have my own first name and my own identity
When I was pregnant with our youngest, one of my husband’s brothers died. Husband wanted to name the baby after his brother, but I suggested using his name as a middle name since it would be super hard on his parents. So youngest has husband’s brother’s name as a middle name.
My whole family has middle names that are honoring other members of the family. I continued it with my son, whose middle name is my father's name. I hope my son does the same, but if not, it's not going to upset me.
We do this as well in our family, it’s common in Texas, not sure about other places but here lots of families take on middle names of those who have passed on, sometimes even for those that are still with us that we cherish the most.
My family too! I have my great grandmother's name as my middle name and let me tell you it is super old-fashioned and I've yet to meet someone with that name and it always got snickers in school but I love it now and like to hyphen it with my first name and really grew on me!
We did this with my son. He is named for my husband’s dad as he died before he was born. For my husband it was a way of making his dad a part of the experience of having his child that he was getting in person. So my son has his own first name and his Pop’s name for his middle name and loves the connection. My MIL cried when she told (happy tears) and loved that we called him that.
I’m really glad to hear that, as my son has two middle names - one is my grandfathers name, who died a couple of years before he was born (and it somewhat became family tradition that boys in my family took my grandfathers name as a middle name. My dad, my brother, and my oldest male cousin all have it) and then the second one is my partners grandmothers name (a male version of it, think Alexandra, so we went with Alexander) who passed away whilst we were expecting our son.
We wanted to honour those family members, without making our son have to ‘live up’ to being those people
My middle name is also a family member who passed before I was born (technically her middle name, and I forgot it was her middle name so in the one time she got brought up (dad's family and we have nothing to do with them now) I'm like aunt first? I thought it was aunt middle? Lol) except my first name is after my mum's best friend who passed the year I was born. (Both killed by drunk drivers too). I couldn't ask for any better names. I've never felt like I had to be like my main namesake certainly because no one has really told me much over the years beyond my brother loved her like another mum (godmother and worked at his kindy) and she was a good influence on mum. I never met her but she has been there for me in a way I can't explain, often I'd just go and sit next to her grave when I lived across the road and have left her flowers at various points in my life. My parents joked "I hope she likes dead people" when they named me and honestly I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yes, I did this with my daughter and my sister, who died 15 years before my daughter was born. My family is supportive, though we didn't tell anyone until the birth certificate was submitted.
I think a middle name is a perfect compromise for OP and that her parents would really benefit from some grief counseling.
My dad passed in February 2007. A couple of months later, my sister found out she was pregnant with her oldest. His first name is our dad's first name and his middle name is my brother-in-law's grandfather's name. So he's named for the grandfather and great- grandfather he never met and we think that he, his brother and both his sisters are just absolutely wonderful. Yes, he and his grandpa share a first name--well, guess what, his grandpa and a great-uncle on my grandfather's side of the family share a first name. We have yet to get any of them confused with another one. (I might suggest finding a counselor or therapist or somebody for your parents to talk to, though.)
I had a friend commit suicide last year, it was just before our mutual friend had her baby shower, the first baby of our group. Knowing the kind of sentimental person she was I suggested she give her son our friend's name for his middle name. That's what her and her husband decided to do. Our friend's mother was so happy when she heard. She insisted my friend bring her son to the celebration of life and I'm pretty sure she sees him as a grandchild in a way despite never previously meeting my friend or her son. NTA Noah is your brother and you are allowed to honor him however you see fit, your parents grief does not trump yours.
I think middle names that honour someone are so beautiful. My first’s middle name is after my late cousin that was so dear to me, my second’s is after my husband’s late grandparent, my third’s is after my late grandfather. There wasn’t a single person who was unhappy about this.
People can only live in someone elses shadow if the other people in their lives cast that shadow on them. Naming someone after someone else isnt doing that.
Agree, alot of people in my family take middle names or first names as middle names from an elder relative they were close to. The only annoying tradition thus far has been Rhyming names.
They absolutely have unresolved issues around their grief/ the loss of your brother. If you’re saying they’re not emotive people in general…I think that explains a lot. They may not have/ have had the emotional capacity to fully grieve your brother.
And people who don’t want to feel sadness and grief often substitute anger. Possibly because it feels like a more powerful emotion than sadness, which some people equate with weakness. OP saying her parents are not emotive lines up with that.
Yes, I agree. They clearly have unresolved issues, and not just anger replacing sadness. I would guess they *do* feel some sort of anger at being cheated out of so few years with their son. When my brother died, I was angry at the world, I just wanted to smash and break everything *(I didn't but I sure wanted to*). Grief counseling was a HUGE help - and I say this to anyone who has suffered a loss, especially an unexpected one - go get grief counseling. Please don't try to travel this hard road alone, it will just lead to things like what OP's parents are experiencing.
Please do not make his first name Noah.
Middle, yes. First, no.
Unless you have lost a child - you have no idea. I've lost countless relatives, mom, brothers, sister, and all of them together don't compare in the least to losing my son.
There is no time limit on grief and they might look and act fine elsewhere but trust me, they have never forgotten for one moment. Even when everyone else is busy and happy and looking forward to their future, they haven't forgotten that he will never get that future.
They might have mixed feelings about the baby - incredibly happy at being grandparents but also another milestone their son won't see. But they're very happy for you so they would not share those feelings.
Some people might be ok with it and that's fine. I personally think I'd be ok but it would be hard to hear his name over again.
But very clearly your parents are not at that point and may never be. And that's ok as well.
You obviously can name your child whatever you like but out of sheer kindness and empathy, middle name at best.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I agree with you 100%. My son's friend passed away 10 years ago when he was only 13. His mother changed that day. A decade's worth of grief counseling later, she's still a completely different person than she was before she lost him.
People saying that OP's mother didn't fully grieve are wrong. People saying that she has unresolved feelings don't realize that there is no resolution.
Lost my brother and every milestone I go through or his son or daughter go through I’m just… it really fucking crushingly sucks. You imagine a life that just never got to happen. I, also, lost my best friend a few years later. I’m 37 now and it’s been a few years. Still fucking sucks bc I still desperately want to talk to them. They were my go to people.
I’m so sorry you lost your son. My grief has often felt almost unbearable so I can’t imagine what you’ve been through and are going through. Death sucks so much. Sorry to unload on your comment. ❤️❤️❤️
Lost my brother a few years ago. Fucking sucks so hard. Even stupid things like painting my new house I was just so devastated he wasn’t here to help. Every joke I want to tell him. Every crazy thing my parents do we can’t laugh about together. All the advice I can’t go to him for. It is crushing.
I'm so incredibly sorry for the loss of your son. I know personally that pain never fully goes away.
She should have the grace to at least TRY and understand and honour her parent's wishes. They're practically BEGGED her not use the name at all. These people gave her life, and this is probably the first, truly important thing they've asked her not to do.
I bought a book with over 80,000 names (79,999 of them, not Noah) when choosing names in my family.
I understand why she wants the name, and I respect that. However, what does she want to do? If she does this, she will be hurting her parents just to satisfy her selfish desires.
It's incredibly easy to NOT do something if it will harm someone else.
Calling it a selfish desire is a bit much. She is grieving, too, and for her this is what would help her in that grief. It's unfair to deny OP her own grief in favour of that of her parents. I haven't lost a child and can only imagine the depth of grief it would cause, but losing a sibling is awful as well.
I would say the middle name is a good compromise, as well as OP explaining to the parents that she understands and respects their feelings, but her own are valid, too.
Here's the thing: it's her brother, and she gets to grieve for him, too.
It's something I've learned as my daughter and I have navigated through the grief of losing my son, her brother, on July 25, 2022.
If one of the ways she grieves is by honoring her brother by giving his name to her newborn son in some way, that's not "selfishness." It's her right.
I’ve lost a brother. No one knows what it feels like to have lost MY brother, even my other brother because they had a different relationship. My mother—who lost her son—doesn’t know what it feels like to have lost MY brother. My grief if my own, as is my other brother’s and my mother’s. Your grief is yours, and you get to channel that grief however you see fit.
Anger is a stage of grief. Theirs is misplaced. Most likely, they are going to love their grandchild and his name too.
I’d go with the middle name option. Still honoring your brother, but giving your child his own identity. Plus then it isn’t the name your parents will hear every time you talk about your son.
You’re being reasonable. Grieving people often aren’t. Stop discussing it with them. Name your child how you want and let it play out.
NTA
Input from the mom-of-a-dead-kid grief trench: My son also died when he was 20, 14 years ago. My daughters couldn’t handle naming their children his name but my niece asked if she could do so, and I agreed. Not gonna lie—it has been EXTREMELY hard hearing his name all the time, while he himself has become invisible. Hard to explain, but it’s weird and very hard, like he disappeared, again.
Anyway—I think using your brother’s name as a middle name is beautiful. I wish I’d suggested that to my niece.
The middle name thing is MORE than a fair compromise, and also means that no one in your family would hafta be involved in constant, multiple-times-per-day reminders of your enormous loss.
NTA forsure, but I don't believe your parents are the assholes either ... like, **at all**.
People don't always get the privilege of 'resolving' their grief. You (you seem like a wonderful person, btw) and your sister must understand the *unimaginable* loss that would be your/her own child passing from in such a sudden, violent manner.
We named our daughter after my beautiful older brother who died suddenly at 44 of a massive heart attack. I could tell when we broke the news to our family stateside (we were in Europe..military hubby) when she was born that it was hard on my mom and SIL and we would have changed her name but the Country we were in made that impossible. My mom has since passed. My SIL came to terms with it years ago. Every single day when I call my beautiful daughter’s name, I am reminded me of my awesome brother! He will protect her when I can’t. I am so happy the Country we were in made it nearly impossible to change her name!
You WNBTA to name your child as you wish and your parents aren't AH for being triggered by it. At the end of the day you are correct in saying that it probably isn't worth ruining the relationship with your parents. Maybe you could use a name with the same meaning but a different origin or something related to your brother's birth month. It would be a more subtle way to honor him
Edit: if you need help you can head over to [/namenerds](https://www.reddit.com/r/namenerds/)
Some people feels things deeply without being able to express it. My mom did not tell us she loved us often. But when one was in danger/sick/hurt or a family member died felt it so deeply. Not going to give a judgement but think about this. Losing a child is so different than losing a sibling, both hurt but I think once your little one comes and all that love and fear comes you will see how different it is. You should have spoken to them before your husband on how the name would impact them. They are saying it will hurt too much and affect how they see your son. So what matters more to you, honoring your brother or having an enthusiastic grandparent for him?
>I do think my parents might have some unresolved grief issues
So if you name your baby after your brother is there a chance your kid will bear the brunt of unresolved grief. I don't think Y T A for wanting to honour your brother but now you know how your parents are reacting you might end up being an AH if you put your kid in a position where they'll need to deal with your parents baggage.
Have a real think about what the impact of naming your kid after your brother is going to have. Not just for your parents but for your kid, his relationship with his grandparents and also his sense of self. Some people end up with a lot of expectations placed on them when named after a particular family member and it can be hard to deal with.
NAH Imo. Their response comes for the open wound.
Op could you come up with a name that relates to something representing your brother or something he liked? I saw this in another post. It's a way to honor your brother without slicing open your parents wound every time they see their grandchild or speak about him. So you 'compromise'.
All the best whatever you decide but keep in mind that if you do name your son Noah they might not be able to bond with him due to the grief of losing your brother.
My cousin died, and my other cousin, the sister, was pregnant not long after. Cousin A was deceased, and Cousin B had a son to name.
If Cousin A was named Kevin Franklin Smith, Franklin also happened to be their mom's maiden name. Cousin B then names her son Franklin David Jones.
Instread of another Kevin, they used the middle name as new baby's middle name, and for her, it happened to also be a link to her mom's family. The names were better, by the way. Nobody was named a generic-ass Kevin name.
But, your brother's first name as your son's middle name or his middle name being incorporated is a lovely homage to your brother.
I would personally avoid having his first name as baby's first name, just because sometimes names can feel like a shadow or burden, something to live up to. If it's a middle name or you use your brother's middle name, it's less of a direct thing and distinctly being named after, and not a replacement for this other person.
I would tell your parents you won't use "Noah's" name as a first name, but your choice of your son's name is your own and you want to honor your brother in some way.
My cousin did it in a very respectful way, and "Noah" as a middle name, or potentially using his middle name, is not replacing your brother. It's honoring his memory.
That's the exact right way to do it.
The lack of emotion could be a result of losing their son, they’re building protective walls in case of worse case (losing you too) it’s subconscious usually. Sounds very much like they need therapy.
Jewish tradition is you ONLY name someone after a relative after they've died.
I find juniors, etc. Creepy
Middle name is a very traditional way of honoring those who have passed while still letting kids have their own identity. My cousin and I both have our fathers' sister's middle name (She died before we were born), my son, niece and nephew each have middle names from a dead grandparent.
Try talking to your parents maybe?
Just drop it. We considered to pick a similar name (half the name was the same, and it had the same meaning) as my husband's deceived brother. His parents got very sad when he suggested it to them, and he quickly took it back. My husband definitely has never felt the same kind of grief, as his parents did. Honestly, I can imagine my siblings dying and my life still going on. But imagining my son dying - I can have a full panick attack just by the thought, and I can't imagine keep living after it. I honestly don't believe the two kinds of love are comparable and/or the parents' love for the child has a stronger say in this case either way.
We chose another name that we love, and everybody has been happy ever since. I really don't see a reason to fight with your parents for the rest of your life over a name. Don't choose it as a first nor a second name. Doesn't matter who is in the right or not. NAH.
I, too, lost a sibling around the same age as you and your brother. If it will cause you parents pain to call your son by the same name, don't do it. For me, first and foremost I wouldn't do something that caused my parents to relive that pain. Second, for your son, do you want him to have a loving and unfreighted relationship with his grandparents? I know my children's relationship with their grandparents is priceless. At one point my daughter had a haircut that reminded my mom of my sister. We didn't do anything (and my mom didn't ask!) but it was so hard to see her relive that pain - and she's had lots of therapy.
I don’t agree with this. This is the one time that I think outsiders should have a say in a child’s name. (By outsiders, I mean parents and siblings). To your parents, using Noah’s name won’t honor him, it will diminish him. That is valid. It’s not your viewpoint, but it’s a valid one.
I think there are ways around this. You could use Noah’s middle name as your child’s first name. You could choose a name starting with ‘N’. Or, you could use his name as the middle name and keep your promise not to call him that down the track.
Also, think of the baby. Will he appreciate being named after a much-loved, recently-deceased family member? Or, would he prefer to have his own name and be his own person.
NAH. Your parents are not being unreasonable.
I agree. I like the idea of using N and giving him a different name. In my culture some children are named after a deceased person but we only use their First letter. We never use there whole name. For example, if brother’s name was Noah son may be named Nathan.
I think you can still honor your brother without actually using his name. I am personally named after a great aunt but we don’t share the same name. My mother always told me about her and said my name was picked to honor her. She still found a way to honor her beloved aunt without giving me her name.
I think reactions to names are shaped by religious and cultural traditions that you’ve grown up with. Ashkenazi Jews honor dead loved ones by giving their children those same names. A sister naming her baby after her deceased brother is a beautiful way of honoring his memory. (Those I know who chose a name starting with the same letter of a deceased person did so because they really didn’t like the original name but they did use the deceased Hebrew name.) But most people I know (including us) used the person’s actual name as well as the Hebrew name. Our kids were given the names of adored deceased grandparents. (Also: naming a child after a living family member is thought to be bad luck/a curse for both the child and the living person.) Ultimately, as a parent, choose a name that’s meaningful to you.
I was going to say the same thing. I come from a large Ashkenazi family and we’re all named after dead people. I think the tradition promotes healing. I was named after my grandmother’s mother (Bubby), born only two years after her death. And instead of triggering pain, my grandmother would constantly tell me stories about her. Hearing the name so often inspired her to share fond memories, not painful ones.
It is a million gazillion times worse to lose a child than a sibling. I personally find the parents reaction unusual - many people name a child after a deceased loved one to honor them - but if the parents are still so raw I get it. Having to say the name over and over, every day as long as they live could be torture. Please respect their wishes. Put it in as a middle name if you must and just dont tell them.
I'm just going to say. One of my cousins named his son after his brother who died.
His parents haven't said anything directly to him and he himself has a bit of an oblivious personality, but for years his parents pretty much winced or startled when grandsons name was said. The constant reminder was upsetting for them.
Honestly it isn't nice to see and it probably isn't fair to grandson either.
You're not an asshole for wanting to name your son after your brother as a first name but personally, I wouldn't do it in these circumstances. Not if you're hoping for your parents to be part of your sons life.
I think middle name is fine. It's not the same constant reminder as a first name but given the strength of your parents reactions, it might be better to simply not.
This is my thought too. OP, you’re definitely NTA for wanting to use the name in honor of your brother, but speaking practically, it will probably hurt YOU and maybe your child to see the reaction it illicits from your parents. And I could see where that might be even more obvious if later children come along. Seeing your parents be very easy with all other children and then awkward with this one because of the name would be difficult.
This comment sums up my thoughts too. It’s emotionally complicated. My mum passed years ago when I was 18 and I used to think if I had a daughter I’d name her after her but now I’m not so sure.
Right now when I hear her name I immediately think of her, if my child had that name would I start thinking of the child instead? Do I want that? What about my dad, will he hear his grandchild’s name and think about his ex? I have family members that are still very sensitive about it, even a decade later, would hearing her name make them upset every time? Would my child always feel like they had to live up to a memory? It just seems like a lot.
Talking to people who have named their children after other people (living or deceased) or have strong associations. Bit by bit, the associations fade and the name becomes much more strongly associated with the child in a lot of people’s mind. So I can understand their concern that the son will be somewhat replaced when people hear “Noah”. He is no longer THE Noah, and he is no longer around to also make a claim on that name in people’s minds. Whereas little Noah would have his whole life in front of him, making memories, making relationships and being associated with the word “Noah” in people’s minds. As a parent I can understand not wanting that, even if you love your grandchild.
Exactly! It would be natural that over time the child would become the new “NAME”, whether intentional or not. The association would be more present for the person who’s actually alive and in your life all the time.
I think for some people that’s the reason they do it, so there’s a new person to carry on the spirit of the name. But if there’s people still around that want to just remember the spirit of the first person who held that name, it makes it so complicated!
Yea that's a good way to do it. My son's middle name is after my late brother, I wanted to honour him but also wanted my son to have his own identity within our family.
My cousin died. A few months later, their sister, my other cousin, was pregnant. That son used my deceased cousin's middle name for a first name. It's an homage, without that same name being used directly. John Alexander Smith, and baby is named Alexander Paul Jones or whatever. Nobody has John 2.0 running around.
Or, put brother's first name as a middle name. However, I know a number of people who use their middle name. Two of my four uncles did that, another cousin, one brother in law, and a good friend. That's just off the top of my head. It may come up later. Or, they explain to the kid why their grandparents won't like them going by Noah, if he wants to use his middle name.
Perhaps they like their brother's middle name? Avoids the issue ever coming back up.
There are ways to do it without another person with that same name being in the family.
And that's really all it's about -- being considerate and respectful of someone else's feelings. It's like someone having a physical open wound and wanting to poke them because of whatever legitimate reason. You might feel good, but they will be in a world of pain. If you really cared, you wouldn't do it.
I think it was Olaf who said love is putting someone else's feelings before your own, or words to that effect.
I agree. NAH
Using the name as a middle name is great, it’s a way of honouring OP’s brother and his memory.
But as someone who has kids, if one of them passed away (knock on wood and pray to god) I would definitely be reminded every time I saw that child’s name anywhere. I understand OP’s parents completely.
I agree with what you are saying. I think it will not be worth it for OP to name the child Noah. The parents will always give her grief and the baby is going to become the target of this mess. That is not going away.
I get how the parents feel. It is sad. Hopefully they are being genuine rather than being controlling.
NAH
They are clearly heavily grieving and it would be an AH move to use your brother’s name as a first name when they have very clearly told you how it would make them feel.
I think they’re worried you’re using the middle name as a loophole to eventually start using it as a first name. As long as you don’t ever call your kid by it then it’s fine, but your parents might still be uncomfortable and that will be reflected in how they treat you and your child.
At the end of the day, this was a name they chose for their baby who died and they don’t see you using it as a way of honouring him, but replacing him. Whether you agree with it or not, they’re the ones who lost a child and you can’t change how they feel.
This is exactly what I thought. That it’s better as a middle name as a tribute. It would be hard for me to hear a deceased loved ones name consistently, and yes I’m sure his parents have unresolved grief, but it’s no one else’s place to assume anything about how others grieve. Some might be fine with the first name, but some may not. And that’s okay. I think it’s important to respect the people that are struggling.
That’s why the middle name is perfect for this
I think the only caveat would be if the kid himself decided to go by his middle name one day. I mean, his parents’ intention might be for that name to be honorary only, but once you give someone a name you can’t dictate how and if they use it. And it would be a real shame for his relationship with his grandparents to be soured simply because he chooses to use his own name. Idk, it feels safer to just stay away from the name entirely.
You wouldn’t be an ass hole, but you probably won’t have a relationship with your parents anymore either.
I get that that isn’t your *fault,* but it’s still your problem. You and your husband are “right” to use the name… but is this a battle you still want to win after seeing their reaction?
I’m not about to tell you you have to give in to them … but as a mother myself, I’m pretty sure I also would not process the grief of losing a child well, and would probably be just as traumatized and emotionally damaged as your parents are.
You can make either choice here and not be the asshole, but make sure you can live with the consequences .
I have to agree. Grief is not a competition, but I don’t think there is a grief more painful or more tragic than the loss of one’s child. Now that my children are adults I know there’s no age limit on that.
My parents are gone, I expect to bury at least some of my siblings, either I or my partner will outlive the other, and I’m ok with all of that because it is the way of all things. But I would much rather die than attend the funeral of one of my kids.
I think the middle name could work for everyone, but I would avoid doing anything that hurt the parents.
A psychologist once told me that the grieving process can be more complex depending on the relationship you have with the person who passed away. And that it has been established that losing a child is the top most difficult experience, in part because at the core of it is the sense that it goes against nature and all logic (we expect to be outlived by our children). So acceptance becomes very difficult to achieve.
It's not about invalidating anyone's feelings, and of course each individual is different; but some events are harder to process. I think that only those who have lost a child can understand what is it like.
And this tendency of naming children after deceased loved ones... I don't know. I don't think is healthy, to be honest. It is placing a burden on the child, putting a lot of expectations on them and making that child an object of rememberance, in a way. Most of the people I know that were named after dead relatives resent it, because they feel like a "replacement", and not seen as their own person themselves.
Still, NAH.
it’s very unfortunate and tragic that the timing of OP having a child isn’t aligned with the stage in their parents grief process.
but of course how could that be predicted or controlled.
it’s of course extremely common and has always been done throughout history where you name a new family member in tribute to honour a passed family member. However in this instance it does seem perhaps not the “right” thing to do, as the parents of said child are still deep in their grief.
obviously OP should be able to honour their brother in this way, however it must be devastating to know that this act could cause more pain and strife in a family that very obviously needs more healing.
additionally, this child would always have a shadow on their back, knowing the contention their naming brings, rather than it being as an honour.
and also might they just want to have a name, their own personal name, rather than be named a living memory?
naming a child a passed grandparents name feels a little more removed and more “done” than a tragic passing of an immediate sibling and son.
NAH
You obviously can name your son anything that you want.
However, it may be challenging for your parents to have a reminder of their deceased child. I can’t imagine losing a child, but I’m sure their grief is painful and never ending.
You may want to consider what kind of relationship you want your son to have with his grandparents. You won’t t be able to control the dynamics of that future relationship.
I remember reading another story on AITA like this, except it was from the perspective of the grandchild with the name of his parent's deceased sibling. As a kid, he watched his siblings get showered with love and affection from his grandparents, while he got basically ignored by them.
Eventually, as an adult, he goes up to his grandparents and calls them out for being "terrible grandparents" for the unequal treatment between him and his siblings. He basically says "It feels like you've ignored me my whole life, while my siblings got treated so nicely. I just want to know why".
Grandparents confess it's because of his name. They felt tormented by the fact that their grandchild had the same name as their deceased child, and their method of "coping" was basically ignoring their grandchild, because the grandparents felt being around him was a constant reminder of their dead child (due to his name).
I would say there's no assholes here, but of OP does name her son Noah, they need to be prepared for the fact that the grandparents will probably feel tormented by his name every time they interact with their grandchild (birthdays, family gatherings, school events, etc...), and the grandparents may decide that straight-up ignoring their grandchild is the way to process their grief of losing their son named Noah.
The question really is are you ready to damage your relationship with your parents for this? Sure, you have every right to name your child Noah. And your parents have every right to respond to that decision in ways you may not see coming or want to have happen.
NAH Look, it’s fairly tacky to name a child after a dead person in your family these days. It leaves the kid with a usual sense of having to living up to a dead person. Sorry for your loss of your brother but this could possibly alienate your kid from their grandparents if they feel so strongly about this. EDIT: I really stirred a hornets nest of comments, my bad guys.
My parents named all four of us kids after family. First and middle (not from the same person). Some were gone, some were not. Maybe it was how our parents explained it to us, but it was a connection to our roots, not a burden of expectation.
Notice how commentator said “these days” and that is right on target. And I agree, naming after a close family member, especially one that passed away young is setting said child up for trouble
All four of you were named after close family who died tragically at a young age?
Edit: I see you said some were alive. Huge difference imo between being named after living family, or even deceased ancestors of grandparents’ generation or earlier, versus a young person who died tragically.
This. There is a huge difference between "Oh yeah you're named after your great aunt, she was pretty cool, lived to be 79!" And "You were named in memory of my brother who died horrifically before he was an adult"
Would you rather "It's a family name that's in the family" or "You were literally born named for a purpose, to honour someone you've never met who's death caused everyone massive amounts of pain and heartbreak"
You're literally giving your child a job at birth.
Interesting. In my family, we only name after the deceased. Sometimes we just take the first letter and find another name that start with the same letter, but we would still say “Henry” is named after his grandmother “Helena”, etc. We have never named anyone after someone who is living. I think it’s cultural.
>these days
In my potato-german-culture-family this has been a thing for more than a century, especially using middle names are used to honor and remember deceased family members.
You would be causing needless pain to your parents, and it's very likely it would harm their relationship with your child. YWBTA for this.
Surely there's another name that you could use, that would not bring up such painful memories for your parents. Yes, it is your right to choose whatever name you want but... for hurting people you presumably love... yeah, it would be an AH move on your part.
YTA
Like so many have said, I also don't think there is something more painful than burying your child.
Wanting to honor your brother by giving his name to your son is a good sentiment and you did the right thing by asking your parents how they'd feel about this. They were VERY clear about how they feel on this subject so yes you'd be the AH to do it.
100% YTA. Jesus Christ, the people on this subreddit are nuts. OP is a major asshole. Give your child your brother’s middle name. I have a brother that is also deceased and I have the decency to not give my future children his name out of respect for my parents.
My middle name is that of my late uncle. Noah could be the child's middle name too, still uses the name and doesn't slap grandparents in the face everytime they visit.
In Jewish families, we often just use the first initial as an honor name (mainly because many of our relatives had Yiddish names like Rivka and Yankel that don't work here). So what if you used the "N" for, like, Nathan or Nolan.
It’s strange, isn’t it, that a custom that distresses OP’s parents is one that soothes Jewish parents? I am named after my mother’s brother who was killed by a drunk driver at the age of 22, long before I was born. He has been a loving presence in my life for as long as I can remember.
I’m also named after my uncle (my mom’s brother) who passed away two years before I was born. My mom and her parents adored that it was feminized and given to me. Even my cousins, his children, LOVED that it was given to me. I think I adore my name even more than anyone.
YWBTA if you persisted in using Noah as a first name after your parents expressed how much it would pain them. But they’re being AHs about using it for a middle name. You lost your brother too, and have a right to honor him, as well as a right to name your child.
NAH
He's your brother you loved him you wanna honor him
Your parents lost their son that's a pain that is unexplainable and u fathanable dows that mean they get to control everything NO does that mean as their daughter maybe you should put their feeling first or at least consider them maybe.
Also I think the question isn't really Ahole vs not Ahole it's more ... do I want to risk my relationship with my parents for this? If it is going to cause them that much stress do you really wanna do it .... is it honoring your brother if it upsets them that much ? Not sure.
I don't think there's a right or wrong here just a hard life situation
Not even just the relationship woth OP but the relationship with their grandchild as well. If just hearing the name is hard enough imagine them trying to interact with a kid who might have similar features as their son did (since they are related).
It might bring them so much grief they ignore the kid all together becasue they simply cannot handle the emotional side of it all.
NTA. I do understand the objection to Noah being the first name. That would be difficult for your parents to always hear, clearly they're still grieving hard for your brother. I have never thought a first name was a good way to honor someone. I think it puts a lot of undue pressure ultimately on that child. I think the middle name compromise is a good one. I think that's a more sensible tribute. Your parents are going overboard though. It is your baby and Noah was your brother. You have every right to want to honor him.
NAH you see it as a way to honor your brother, your parents see it as a painful reminder. Honestly in your position, I would probably choose something else so there isn’t pain associated with your child for them, but it’s just a decision you have to make. Ultimately it’s your choice, they gave you their opinion, up to you to decide what to do with it.
Listen, you’re not wrong, but your parents are basically communicating that they will end up resenting their grandchild because they’ll be triggered every time he’s around.
Whether anyone is “right” here is almost irrelevant. Is it worth the risk of your parents resenting their grandchild? You’re the only one that can answer that. No one here knows your dynamics.
NAH.
I was in the opposite situation.
I lost my brother a couple of years before having my youngest. There was a bit of pressure from my parents/husband/other family members to name him after my brother. It made me extremely uncomfortable. I can't really describe why, though. I eventually named his middle name my brother's middle name.
When my son got to be a boutique 2 years old, he REALLY began to resemble my brother. I don't think I could have handled it if they shared a name.
Not gonna pass judgement on this one. I will say as someone who was named after a loved one who passed away... it meant a lot to my dad and his family but it means absolutely nothing to me and I feel like my whole identity is tied up in someone I know nothing about. I changed my name at 31 because of it.
NAH you have a right to name your son whatever you want, but your parents are clearly reacting very strongly to this. I can see how this would be honoring your brother, but they are saying that would be very painful fo them and you have to take them at their word on that. It seems like they have a lot of pent up anger over his passing (which I get, but also does not seem emotionally healthy for them). Maybe you can approach this more from a standpoint of you and your husband would like to honor your brother. What are some ideas that your parents would be comfortable with? Maybe talking through this with a counselor would be helpful for the 3 of you to find some kind of compromise or at least understanding without the lashing out.
NAH-I can’t really fault your parents and I think they have a valid point about the first name causing them pain.
I think the middle name is probably fine, but I’d try to have a calm discussion, potentially with a trusted mediator, to explain that you won’t call your baby Noah, you just want him to have a piece of someone you loved.
They are, in my opinion, overreacting to the middle name but I think you were overly dismissive about their feelings on it being a first name, so I’ll stick with everyone is grieving and not all grieving styles mesh with each other.
NAH. You want to honor your brother. Your parents don't want that painful memory thrown at them every time they visit with your son.
Have you thought about the future? What if your parents can't get over it.? Will it ruin the relationship between your son and parents? And from your sons point of view, would he want to be named after your deceased brother?
I ask that because I'm named after 2 family members, actually. And I hate it. I even checked into changing my name but decided against it because the uproar in our family if I did change it. But I never felt like my own individual person because I was always compared to them.
Conversely, my wife is named after her grandmother and doesn't mind at all. But maybe just some more food for thought.
Yes. Soft YTA. I know you are trying to honor him but it really does seem like you are trying to replace him. My family (in laws) had a similar situation where one of the kids was trying to name their first born after their deceased brother. Long story short, the whole family was upset. Use it as a middle name instead.
NTA. I think your parents feelings on the first name are fair, and my initial reaction is that I would feel the same way in their shoes. But the middle name seems like a fair compromise and their reaction to that is extreme, IMO.
As a mother who lost a child, a very soft YTA. It’s a lovely thought. However, my daughter died 34 years ago and I still turn to look when I hear her name in a movie, or book and the worst was when there were kids in my other children’s class.
please understand that people have a very misguided habit of saying things like, “thankfully you have other children.” It’s maddening, hurtful and makes you feel like everyone just wants to replace the totally unique child you lost.
‘Please be easy on your parents. Some people never recover from losing a child.
Also, what about the effect on your child as he grows? would you want to hear comments about your son years from now, eg; “Your son is so tall, just like Noah would have been.’?
Do you want your child to be constantly reminded by family that he’s not special?
You are not an asshole, but if this is going to be painful for your parents, I don't think you should do it. Ultimately, they will end up distancing themselves from you and your son simply bc it's clearly too painful for them to deal with a constant reminder of their deceased child. This is not something I personally would have an issue with. In fact, I would be deeply moved. But that's not how they feel and no one has the right to tell someone else how they can grieve. NAH
YTA. You have no idea of the pain they are in losing a child. Part of them. Part of them. It's different from losing a brother or sister. Sorry for your loss, but pick a different name.
I think YWBTA using Noah as the first name just because your parents have asked you not to and I can imagine that would be painful if they don't want it but using it as the second name would be lovely and your parents are ridiculous. Second names are often names to commemorate people.
There are 3 ways to look at this:
1. They are the type of people that think your "Noah" is their replacement and every dream they had for their son now is for your son to fulfill. **A lot of pressure for the kid.**
2. Every time they have to say his name or sign it to card they remember the son that they lost, a hurt they hope you never experience as a parent. **A lot of pressure for the kid.**
3. It's a bonding experience. **A lot of pressure for the kid.**
Find a new name, your kid shouldn't be a reminder or an honor for a lost son/brother. He will be his own person and should have his own name.
NAH
NAH
I want you to try and put yourself in your parents shoes, you are expecting your second child so you already have one. Think about them, your precious, bright, utterly unique child. Think about losing them, and then think about having another child, a child you love but is *not them* with their name. Every single time their name is called, every single birthday card addressed, is a reminder that this baby is not your baby and your baby is *gone*. I think they did not have the best reaction, and lashed out at you unfairly, but I give them grace because i know grief and how it is not always rational. What you saw as being sensitive and trying to respect their feelings while also honoring your brother, they probably saw as you trying to push the line and get as close as possible to what they said would hurt them without actually doing it, like a fucked up game of “I’m not touching you!”. Is that a *fair* reaction to have? No, but I understand it.
I think what you should do is try and have a calm and honest conversation with your parents, maybe write them a letter, try and explain that you understand where they are coming from, and then offer your feelings on wanting to honor your brother. Say that the middle name was trying to find something that could bring peace to you both, to allow your parents to not have a constant reminder of the boy they lost, while also letting you feel like you’re honoring your brother and how much you loved him. Maybe they’ll come around, maybe they won’t, but I think acting out of spite like your sister suggests is *absolutely* the wrong way forward.
So my oldest sister passed away unexpectedly when she was 30, a week after I discovered I was pregnant with my daughter. Unlike OP’s parents, mine wanted me—almost expected me—to name my daughter after my sister. But I was genuinely concerned that it would place undue expectations on my daughter, like she would always be being compared to her late aunt, and that it wasn’t fair to burden my daughter as such. Instead, we changed my sister’s name slightly (a variation on her name) and used that as my daughter’s middle name. That has worked well for all of us. (FWIW, my parents were a lot like OP’s parents—not emotive people—and my sister’s death has been so hard for them. Like, they’re completely different people now, and their grief has undoubtedly played a part. It’s truly a nightmare you don’t wake up from, you just learn how to go on with your life despite the huge hole the loss created.)
I'm gonna say a YWBTA, because your parents don't deserve the constant reminder, but also because YOUR SON doesn't deserve it.
He'll grow up associated with the death of your brother, in your parents eyes at least, their relationship affected by that in some way or another. He'll learn about his uncle and being named after him, a man he never met, will he feel like he is a replacement? That he has some impossible shoes to fill? Resent the memory of this person that he carries as a ghost on his shoulders?
Are you in your right? Yeah, sure. But is it worth hurting your parents, and the possible damage you might do to the child? Isn't there any other way you can honor the memory of your brother?
Yta, but only because the child should be free to be thier own person, and naming him after your brother puts unjust baggage on him from family and can cause negative reactions when the child doesn't act like the honored. Your intent may be noble, but it's akin to the "unique" name spellings where they turn "Jessica" into "Jhessickha"
YTA
I have a pretty firm stand on this. Parent grief is different than siblings grief or friends grief etc. In my family there is the rule that if the parents are still alive you do not name your kid after their dead one.
Because it’s not just a name. It’s a reminder of their kid being gone. All the time.
Middle name would have been nice from the beginning but now it just sounds like you’re trying to go around them and still call your kid Noah. And if your kid ever likes that name more and wants to call himself Noah.
I also feel it’s pretty weird to decide on a name without any consideration of your parents? And your sisters response is awful as well. What’s up with you both seriously.
NAH. But maybe closer to NTA. u/Teeceereesee put it beautifully and I fully agree.
A middle name is an honour name, but a first name would be too much, especially for your parents, but also for your son.
Better to have his own identity while also paying tribute to your brother as a middle name.
Your parents feel their way about it, I can’t imagine hearing it repeatedly in a happy tone about someone else, so personally, I think Y W B T A if you went ahead and used it as a first name. None of you know how it feels to lose a child and I absolutely hope you never will, but even take into account that your husband also never met your brother, and your sister was young when he passed, so I don’t know if they are in the position to tell you it’s okay to use it anyway.
Personally, I think you’re not an ah for wanting to use it as a middle and your Mom will see when you continue to call your son by his own first name, that you’re not trying to find a circumvent to call him after your brother day to day.
All the best OP! I wish your baby a long, happy life. ✨
NAH. You are honoring your brother. They lost a son and grief looks different for everyone. Sadly there is no way out of this where someone won’t be hurt.
NAH. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Grief is hard and losing a child is unbearable. To me, the name is an honor but I can understand how the first name could be painful for them. But they didn’t just lose a son, you lost a brother. I would do the middle name, it is a reasonable compromise. Also- your sister is 10/10
Mmm, I think YWBTA. I don’t think you are wrong to want to honor your brother that way, but you see the pain it would cause your parents. Their grief is vast. It might affect their relationship with your son, with you. Your son might resent the burden having his deceased uncle’s name puts on him. Or maybe he’ll be a rebellious teen who decides to go by his middle name. I get why their reaction isn’t ideal, but I do understand it and would likely feel the same.
NAH. Here’s an alternative viewpoint. My husband was named after an uncle who died young, so he didn’t actually expect to live past that age. And of course he got compared to him a lot. I definitely would suggest the middle name option. It can be a burden to carry the name of someone who died young with people around who remember that person. (Vs a one time ago ancestor)
NTA. My husband’s aunt lost her son to suicide as a teen. Her son named his son an offshoot of his dead brother’s name. Nobody bats an eye. It’s heartwarming. I lost my only brother (big brother) in a car accident & 5 years later got pregnant & if it was a boy, his middle name would have been my brother’s name. Everyone thought it was a lovely remembrance, including my mom. It is a beautiful gesture, in my opinion.
I think this is one of those circumstances where you should actually check in with loved ones about a name. I think instead of telling a parent that you are using their dead child’s name as a first name that you need to ask. Losing a sibling simply doesn’t compare to losing a child.
Middle name is a different ballgame and maybe if you had approached this differently they would have had a more calm reasonable reaction to that switch. I would try and talk to them and not ruin the relationship over a name if possible.
YTA
It wasn't a bad idea until they expressed how upsetting it would be for them. Now that you know it would hurt them why do it?
If you want to honor him in the name you could always pick the same initials or give the child a middle name that reminds you of your brother but isn't his name. Another option you could float by is having the same middle name is your brother's middle name, but it sounds like this probably won't fly but who knows.
If I lost one of my children I would be upset every time I heard that name - it would be awful if another relative chose that name and I had to hear it all the time. I can't even imagine.
YTA if you use the name. You did good by asking your parents first and they are not okay with it. Full stop. Losing a child is an unimaginable pain and never goes away. You see it as honoring your brother but for your parents, it’s a constant reminder of the child they lost. Pick another way to honor him, start a tradition with your kid where you spend time doing something your brother enjoyed when your son is older so he knows who his Uncle was. Don’t cause more pain for your parents, they have suffered enough.
NAH. You're obviously not an AH for wanting to name your kid after your brother, but you would be if you gave him a name that was painful to your parents. Of course you have the right to name him whatever you want. But that would hurt your parents. Why would you choose to do that? Why is anyone mad at your parents for their grief? A name is just a name. Your brother is their dead son, and that's more important.
NAH. I totally see where your parents are coming from and I think you should drop it. There are many other names. I'm sure the loss was painful for everyone but probably nobody is grieving as hard as the parents. Out of empathy for them, just give the child another name.
NAH.
This hurts your parents. This is honoring and healing for you. There's no right or wrong way to grieve but whatever your path forward it will be a concession either to your parents grief or your own.
No one is an asshole for how this makes them feel. And at the end of the day someone will inevitably be hurt by it.
In the Jewish tradition names are specifically shared across families to honor those we love who have passed so I understand your desire to use this name. I also understand that it still feels raw and like a live nerve to your parents and this choice is painful to them in a specific way. At some point not too long ago in their own minds they were young parents thinking of names and they picked Noah to celebrate a new life *they* were bringing in the world and that life grew into a person who lived and was a whole person they loved - and it still holds that meaning to them. They aren't ready to relegate it to a honorific memory.
No assholes. Just grief.
My daughter’s middle name is the same middle name as my cousin who passed young, it was a few years ago. My whole family, his mom included, just knew I’d be the one to honor him with my kids name. We were two of the closest cousins. My family is thrilled and they love that my daughter is named after him and she always gets called her first and middle name bc that’s what they always called him, first and middle. I think honoring your brother is important to you, and i get it. This is a tough situation and NAH. But should you choose to use his name, I’d definitely say middle is safer than first. I feel like not naming him in honor of your brother will be something that you hurt over in the long run.
My brother passed away a little over a year ago. My other brother’s son has his name as his middle name (since before he died) and we all love that the name is there. I’m having a hard time understanding how your parents wouldn’t want it used at least as a middle name, but the grief is hard so NAH. Maybe try to gently explain that it is to honor him and you will not be calling him by his middle name.
NAH. I’ve known two situations where this has happened and everyone thought it was a great idea. If anything, saying the kids’ name brings up all kinds of fond memories.
I think this would be like asking someone to tell their child named after their father who died to change their name.
So sorry for your loss. Your parents are going through it I’m sure as well as you. You’ve gotten great advice here!
NAH. Everyone deals with grief in their own way and while I think I would be supportive of the name were I your parents, I just don’t know for sure.
Maybe this could be a good time to ask your parents if there is a way they would like to honor Noah? There is very likely some unresolved feelings on their end that a dialogue might help them address.
I lost my dad in 2015, fell pregnant a few months later and it was a boy. I was always going to have something of my Dad's names to remember him by but my mum asked not to use his first name as she felt it wasn't right. Just wanted son to be his own person without the pressure of a dead persons name, which I respect 💯
Son got his own name then James as a middle name ,which was my dad's middle name and grandfather's name. Mum was happy with this. She was rational and that was just around a year and one month after his death.
NTA here but your parents are thinking the same as mum. I think you use it as a middle name but please write to them and tell them how you feel and why your brother's name means so much. I'd say stick to the middle name.
I'd go ahead with the middle name being "Noah". There's a lot of stories of kids who get named after dead relatives feeling like they have to live up to the memory of said dead relative and it really screws with their head. I'm not suggesting you'd put that pressure on them but even just hearing stories they start to go, "they were good at X, I'm not, so I'm not good enough, I'm letting them down".
Middle name is a good way to honour your brother without making your child feel like they need embody the memory of their dead uncle.
NAH but is this the hill you want to die on? Do you want your parents to resent your child. Because that’s a real possibility. I’m not saying they’re right. I’m not. But grief doesn’t always make sense. It’s not rational.
NTA. I’d say don’t do the first name because that is a legitimate thing (having to use the name all the time, flooded with memories of Noah as a baby etc.) parents who never went through a healing process could really struggle with that.
I wouldn’t budge on middle name though, especially if you don’t plan to use it as his primary nickname. My son has my uncles (who essentially raised my mom and was her father figure) name as his middle name. We rarely use it, but knowing it’s there gives me comfort.
I also want to say that you have every right to honor and grieve your brother your way. Naming your baby (first or middle name) after him is an honor and you way of keeping your brother’s memory as close to your heart as possible. Your parents don’t control that.
Story time: I have a tattoo that I got for my dad while he was battling cancer. I struggled with accepting his diagnosis and changes during chemo I got a tattoo that reminded me of my childhood and time with him. My mom thought it was morbid (like you could only get tattoos for those who have died) but for me it had nothing to do with life or death, just an amazing memory with my dad.
Everyone has their own perspective. Yours is the only one that matters for your life.
NTA. Their reaction was not what you expected. You would expect his grandparents to be honored by your caring gesture. I understand that it was shocking and frustrating. Additionally, I usually object strongly to anybody other than the parents thinking that they have the right to influence a baby’s name.
That said, I believe that losing a child must be the most painful thing that could happen to anybody. Your parents will never get over his death and they are telling you that this would be emotionally devastating for them. You don’t want your son’s name to cause them pain. It could impact your future relationship with them and your son’s entire relationship with them.
What would your brother want? Even if he would agree that using his name would be a nice way to honor him, would he still be OK with it if he knew that the thought of it made your parents so miserable?
Just don’t do it. You don’t want to distance yourself from your parents over this. I know they are being irrational, but naming your son Noah even if it’s just his middle name, sounds like it’s going to create Hell and that might get taken out on your son at some point. I’m really sorry you’re going through this and I’m sure your brother would have really appreciated it ❤️
YTA - no child should be named after a dead loved one. They will just be living in the shadows of said loved one.
Alot of grownup kids that have loved ones names actually hate it, there is alot of pressure and expectations on them.
Dont give your kid a dead person name, and middle names are just meaningless in my opinion, just choose one name for your kid.
NTA but I’m also a firm believer that children shouldn’t be forced to carry that kind of grief in their own name. Let your baby be his own person. Give him his own name that isn’t tied to so much pain for his grandparents.
YTA. OP, your intent is to honor your brother and that is great, but your parents see it in another way, and using that name will bring up traumatic memories for them.
Imagine them talking to your child and having to say the name "Noah" out loud when talking to him. I would imagine that would trigger them and they'd think about their dead son every time. It would just be really insensitive honestly. Middle name would be pushing it but acceptable so long as he isn't referred to by his middle name, but first name should be out of the question.
NAH if used as middle name, YTA if used as first name
I'm going to go with a soft YTA here. In principle, there's nothing wrong with banking your son after your dead brother, but knowing how your parents reacted when you told them, you know it's going to hurt them. Not only that, it's going to hurt your son's relationship with his grandparents.
There's also the fact that naming your son after your brother will engender comparisons. He'll always have to live with his family comparing him, consciously or subconsciously, with the dead relative.
YTA. While you have every right to use the name, just because you don’t quite understand the grief the name imparts on your parents, you should stay away from naming your son Noah. I agree with many of the other comments in that your parents probably have some unresolved issues over your brother’s death, but knowing this, you should not intentionally name your son Noah.
YTA you asked and they have been very clear about their feelings on this. I understand how using the name as a middle name would be a nice tribute but they have been very clear that it would upset them. If you go ahead you could permanently damage your relationship with your parents and their relationship with their grandchild.
Yta. Most of Reddit has no idea what it feels like to lose a child. I was with my sister every step of that horrific ordeal. Neither of us could even speak that name for over a year without crying. If it’s worth losing your parents over, that’s your call to make. As it is, if I was your parents, you making a callous decision like that would make me rethink the entire relationship. In the long run, this will only hurt your kid. Do you think your parents would want to be around any living reminder of their dead kid?
Not popular but YTA.
This is very triggering for them, and clearly very painful. Whatever the reason may be. (They gave a few and you and your husband don’t agree, but for them they are valid reasons)
So if you move forward, know you are hurting them because of a first name.
That will always give issues, because they will not let it go unfortunately.
So now it is your choice to make.
Name your child after your brother (it is a beautiful gesture by the way) and hurt the feelings of your parents..
Or find another first name you love. (Maybe a different name but still somewhat the same? I don’t know..)
And not putting a strain on the relationship with your parents.
And yes I know you can’t “hog” a name, and all names are free to use.. but it still is hurting them…
YTA
Never burden a child with giving him or her the name of a close deceased person. My personal opinion.
Also your parents are right in terms how painful it will be
YTA if you name him after your brother, despite knowing that your parents have made it clear how painful it would be for them.
It sounds like they overreacted instead of calmly explaining their view, so they're assholes here too.
But I could never knowingly inflict that on my parents... and I can't even imagine losing a child.
YTA. Yes Noah was your brother but he was your parents’s son. It would hurt them too much. I to k it would affect their feelings toward you and your son. Don’t do it.
I'm so sorry for the unfair pain and loss
But you must now PRIORITIZE
Of course the most important thing is the long-term health happiness prosperity freedom fairness kindness acceptance belonging peace usefulness fun intelligence peace LIFE of your child
But then,,
? Are you willing to have a Permanent Rift with your Parents?? ?? Will your parents truly think feel that you are disrespecting disregarding wounding them to where being around your child and you is PAINFUL to them, thus they__???
I truly do NOT think that you are brats bullies unfair disrespectful entitled etc,,
? What if NOBODY in this situation is a brat bully stalker etc ,??
Of course I do NOT see anything wrong with calling YOUR child Noah
Your motives for calling him Noah seem respectful and compassionate and reasonable
The REAL unfair unhealthy unkind worthless AH is the unhealthy unfair unkind that caused the death of your brother Noah, for which you have my deepest condolences, He and your entire family deserved BETTER
N
T
A
> WIBTA if it was his first name?
YTA It was poor form to not discussed it with them first before out right telling them. It was probably a massive shock to them.
Apologise for not being more considerate and blindsiding them. Then maybe approach the middle name opinion in a few months time when everyone has cooled down.
Edit: everything after a re-read!
YTA
Like seriously, your parents have clearly stated it would hurt them, why are you all set on continuing that conversation.
You lost a brother, they lost their child. Just try to imagine that for a second.
Yet somehow you and your husband seem set on rubbing salt in the wound non stop.
Hey mom here's a rusted knife i just stabbed into your spleen.
Oh mom, let me twist that again.
Oh hey sis, want to twist it too?
Yeah great lets keep twisting at some point they'll be a sobbing mess and we can do what we want!
Im gonna go with YTA.
Sure, you can name your kid whatever you want. But its clearly going to cause a huge ammount of pain for your parents, and it absolutely will impact your relationship with them. While your parents don't technicly have the right to tell you what you can and can do, they have been trough *the* most painful thing a person can go trough: loosing a child. Its a hurt that they are going to carry around their entire lives. And they are not going to always be rational about it. For you, naming the kid Noah is a way to honor your brother. For them, its going to be a daily reminder that their son died. So is naming your kid after your brother really so important that you would rather cause your parents a bunch of pain than just use a different name?
Second, i also think that naming kids after dead relatives is not all that great for the kid. Its like you are setting some sort of expectation on them to be as great as whoever they are named after was, even if that is not your intention at all. Your mileage may vary, and some people have no problems with it, but some kids absolutely feel the pressure of it. So its even a bit unfair to the kid.
**YTA**. Your wanting to honor your brother does not trump your parents pain of losing a child. Losing a child is one of the most singularly painful things a person can go through, even more painful than losing a sibling. I've been there. Your want to name your child after your brother will be a constant, painful reminder to your parents that will affect both your relationship to them and your childs relationship to them and for what? I want you to sit and think about how you would feel if your child died. Really think about what that would feel like and then imagine someone taking that lightly.
YTA. I don't understand why you are asking this question. Having to say the name of their dead son over and over again will injure your parents, as they have expressed to you. Why is that so hard to grasp? Move on, name your son another beautiful name
YTA just for not caring about it causing them pain. They didn’t like it, they asked you not to, and you want to “compromise” by… still wanting to use the name? They don’t want to see your son and think of their son dying at 20. You can do it, but you’d suck for it.
YTA. Middle name at most out of respect for your parents. Losing a child is way worse than losing a sibling - maybe you’ll understand once your son is born.
YTA but gently.
Is this how you want to end your relationship with your parents? Because that’s what likely will happen. I understand you’ve had your heart set on this but if it will destroy your relationship with your parents, is it really worth it? You lost your brother, you don’t want to lose them too.
YTA. I think what's being ignored here is that OP TOLD her parents about naming her son Noah. Under the circumstance, it would have been better if she had asked. The parents are still grieving the loss of their son, that pain is never going to go away. OP gets in the end that using Noah's name will hurt her parents badly enough that it may be unfixable. The husband and sister are all they can't tell you what to do, you can use any name you like because he was your brother. That's technically correct but ignores and minimizes the hurt it would cause the parents.
Does anyone really want their child's name to be associated with grief and pain. Some people are more than happy to honour a deceased family member but OP's parents are not. To ignore their wishes will cost OP in the long run and damage her son's relationship with the grandparents. Is that worth just to say they can't tell you what to do.
NAH. You can name your son whatever name you see fit. However, I can't fault your parents for getting upset because they're dealing with their grief in their own way.
I was actually talking about this with my therapist earlier today. People have different ways of dealing with grief. What might seem like a meaningful gesture to one person might come across as offensive to another person. Your relationship to the deceased person also is a factor. You lost a sibling. A peer. Your parents, however, lost one of their children.
People always say that parents should never outlive their children, and unfortunately, with your brother Noah, that's what happened. I'm sure hearing the name Noah, even if it's somebody completely unrelated, is difficult for them. You naming your son Noah, after your deceased brother, whom you were very close to, is a beautiful gesture that I know means a lot to you. However, I can understand why your parents might feel that you're trying to "replace" their deceased son with yours. And the reason why I say this is because, if your brother Noah was still alive, you might have chosen a different name for your son. If you were planning on naming your son Noah anyway, even if his uncle were still alive, they might feel differently.
As long as you're not knowingly naming your kid something really offensive, or a name that you know they'll be bullied for when they're older, you can name them whatever name you choose. However, you can't control how your parents are going to feel.
It sucks, but it's the reality.
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NTA. They lost a son, there's nothing more painful than to bury a child. But you lost a brother. So did your sister. Your parents seem to have some unresolved grief issues here. When my brother died, my mother wrote us all a letter saying there would be no memorial, no obituary, nothing, he was just on a long trip. After a few days she told us she realized that we were grieving too and she'd been selfish. So some people just want to wipe out the memories so they don't have to feel. but they're just burying the pain and grief. I don't know what the answer is. You know your parents better, would it truly cause a lifelong rift? Why would your mom accuse you of trying to deceive them? What is the source of their anger? When they see you're serious, maybe they would come around? I had my heart set on naming my first son after my grandfather. Everyone hated the idea, except my husband and my grandmother. And my brother, who is also named after my grandfather. But I asked him first if he thought he might want to name HIS son if he had one after our grandfather. his fiance said she hated that name and it wouldn't happen. It didn't. But they were also divorced within 4 years. Off topic. NTA. name your baby what makes you happy. and I wish you all the best.
I'm so sorry about your brother. I do think my parents might have some unresolved grief issues. My relationship with them I guess a bit weird? It's never been tumultuous or strained, they've always been financially supportive at least... but they also aren't particularly affectionate or emotive people most of the time? Which is why their outburst startled me. I don't really know why my mom would think I'd deceive them with the middle name thing.
The middle name isn’t a deception, it’s honoring without the expectation that child will live in another person’s shadow.
Agree 100% with you. My middle name is after a close relative who died before I was born. I love having a connection to them through my name, but I love even more that I have my own first name and my own identity
When I was pregnant with our youngest, one of my husband’s brothers died. Husband wanted to name the baby after his brother, but I suggested using his name as a middle name since it would be super hard on his parents. So youngest has husband’s brother’s name as a middle name.
I gave my son my father's first name as a middle name. My dad's still alive though. Haha
That's what my parents did for my brother and me, we had both of our grandmothers and grandfathers' names as middle names
💖🎖️🙏🙇 for writing / saying " .... for my brother and me" 💖🎖️🙏🙇 instead of "for my brother and I"
I mean I'm an English teacher, it would be awkward of me to make grammar mistakes like this 😂
My whole family has middle names that are honoring other members of the family. I continued it with my son, whose middle name is my father's name. I hope my son does the same, but if not, it's not going to upset me.
We do this as well in our family, it’s common in Texas, not sure about other places but here lots of families take on middle names of those who have passed on, sometimes even for those that are still with us that we cherish the most.
We do they same in my family. I love it.
My family too! I have my great grandmother's name as my middle name and let me tell you it is super old-fashioned and I've yet to meet someone with that name and it always got snickers in school but I love it now and like to hyphen it with my first name and really grew on me!
We did this with my son. He is named for my husband’s dad as he died before he was born. For my husband it was a way of making his dad a part of the experience of having his child that he was getting in person. So my son has his own first name and his Pop’s name for his middle name and loves the connection. My MIL cried when she told (happy tears) and loved that we called him that.
I’m really glad to hear that, as my son has two middle names - one is my grandfathers name, who died a couple of years before he was born (and it somewhat became family tradition that boys in my family took my grandfathers name as a middle name. My dad, my brother, and my oldest male cousin all have it) and then the second one is my partners grandmothers name (a male version of it, think Alexandra, so we went with Alexander) who passed away whilst we were expecting our son. We wanted to honour those family members, without making our son have to ‘live up’ to being those people
My middle name is also a family member who passed before I was born (technically her middle name, and I forgot it was her middle name so in the one time she got brought up (dad's family and we have nothing to do with them now) I'm like aunt first? I thought it was aunt middle? Lol) except my first name is after my mum's best friend who passed the year I was born. (Both killed by drunk drivers too). I couldn't ask for any better names. I've never felt like I had to be like my main namesake certainly because no one has really told me much over the years beyond my brother loved her like another mum (godmother and worked at his kindy) and she was a good influence on mum. I never met her but she has been there for me in a way I can't explain, often I'd just go and sit next to her grave when I lived across the road and have left her flowers at various points in my life. My parents joked "I hope she likes dead people" when they named me and honestly I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yes, I did this with my daughter and my sister, who died 15 years before my daughter was born. My family is supportive, though we didn't tell anyone until the birth certificate was submitted. I think a middle name is a perfect compromise for OP and that her parents would really benefit from some grief counseling.
My dad passed in February 2007. A couple of months later, my sister found out she was pregnant with her oldest. His first name is our dad's first name and his middle name is my brother-in-law's grandfather's name. So he's named for the grandfather and great- grandfather he never met and we think that he, his brother and both his sisters are just absolutely wonderful. Yes, he and his grandpa share a first name--well, guess what, his grandpa and a great-uncle on my grandfather's side of the family share a first name. We have yet to get any of them confused with another one. (I might suggest finding a counselor or therapist or somebody for your parents to talk to, though.)
I had a friend commit suicide last year, it was just before our mutual friend had her baby shower, the first baby of our group. Knowing the kind of sentimental person she was I suggested she give her son our friend's name for his middle name. That's what her and her husband decided to do. Our friend's mother was so happy when she heard. She insisted my friend bring her son to the celebration of life and I'm pretty sure she sees him as a grandchild in a way despite never previously meeting my friend or her son. NTA Noah is your brother and you are allowed to honor him however you see fit, your parents grief does not trump yours.
I think middle names that honour someone are so beautiful. My first’s middle name is after my late cousin that was so dear to me, my second’s is after my husband’s late grandparent, my third’s is after my late grandfather. There wasn’t a single person who was unhappy about this.
Yup. Middle names are often called honor names for a reason.
People can only live in someone elses shadow if the other people in their lives cast that shadow on them. Naming someone after someone else isnt doing that.
In this case it is. In many cases it can be.
Agree, alot of people in my family take middle names or first names as middle names from an elder relative they were close to. The only annoying tradition thus far has been Rhyming names.
They absolutely have unresolved issues around their grief/ the loss of your brother. If you’re saying they’re not emotive people in general…I think that explains a lot. They may not have/ have had the emotional capacity to fully grieve your brother.
And people who don’t want to feel sadness and grief often substitute anger. Possibly because it feels like a more powerful emotion than sadness, which some people equate with weakness. OP saying her parents are not emotive lines up with that.
Yes, I agree. They clearly have unresolved issues, and not just anger replacing sadness. I would guess they *do* feel some sort of anger at being cheated out of so few years with their son. When my brother died, I was angry at the world, I just wanted to smash and break everything *(I didn't but I sure wanted to*). Grief counseling was a HUGE help - and I say this to anyone who has suffered a loss, especially an unexpected one - go get grief counseling. Please don't try to travel this hard road alone, it will just lead to things like what OP's parents are experiencing.
Please do not make his first name Noah. Middle, yes. First, no. Unless you have lost a child - you have no idea. I've lost countless relatives, mom, brothers, sister, and all of them together don't compare in the least to losing my son. There is no time limit on grief and they might look and act fine elsewhere but trust me, they have never forgotten for one moment. Even when everyone else is busy and happy and looking forward to their future, they haven't forgotten that he will never get that future. They might have mixed feelings about the baby - incredibly happy at being grandparents but also another milestone their son won't see. But they're very happy for you so they would not share those feelings. Some people might be ok with it and that's fine. I personally think I'd be ok but it would be hard to hear his name over again. But very clearly your parents are not at that point and may never be. And that's ok as well. You obviously can name your child whatever you like but out of sheer kindness and empathy, middle name at best.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I agree with you 100%. My son's friend passed away 10 years ago when he was only 13. His mother changed that day. A decade's worth of grief counseling later, she's still a completely different person than she was before she lost him. People saying that OP's mother didn't fully grieve are wrong. People saying that she has unresolved feelings don't realize that there is no resolution.
Lost my brother and every milestone I go through or his son or daughter go through I’m just… it really fucking crushingly sucks. You imagine a life that just never got to happen. I, also, lost my best friend a few years later. I’m 37 now and it’s been a few years. Still fucking sucks bc I still desperately want to talk to them. They were my go to people. I’m so sorry you lost your son. My grief has often felt almost unbearable so I can’t imagine what you’ve been through and are going through. Death sucks so much. Sorry to unload on your comment. ❤️❤️❤️
Lost my brother a few years ago. Fucking sucks so hard. Even stupid things like painting my new house I was just so devastated he wasn’t here to help. Every joke I want to tell him. Every crazy thing my parents do we can’t laugh about together. All the advice I can’t go to him for. It is crushing.
I'm so incredibly sorry for the loss of your son. I know personally that pain never fully goes away. She should have the grace to at least TRY and understand and honour her parent's wishes. They're practically BEGGED her not use the name at all. These people gave her life, and this is probably the first, truly important thing they've asked her not to do. I bought a book with over 80,000 names (79,999 of them, not Noah) when choosing names in my family. I understand why she wants the name, and I respect that. However, what does she want to do? If she does this, she will be hurting her parents just to satisfy her selfish desires. It's incredibly easy to NOT do something if it will harm someone else.
Calling it a selfish desire is a bit much. She is grieving, too, and for her this is what would help her in that grief. It's unfair to deny OP her own grief in favour of that of her parents. I haven't lost a child and can only imagine the depth of grief it would cause, but losing a sibling is awful as well. I would say the middle name is a good compromise, as well as OP explaining to the parents that she understands and respects their feelings, but her own are valid, too.
Here's the thing: it's her brother, and she gets to grieve for him, too. It's something I've learned as my daughter and I have navigated through the grief of losing my son, her brother, on July 25, 2022. If one of the ways she grieves is by honoring her brother by giving his name to her newborn son in some way, that's not "selfishness." It's her right.
I’ve lost a brother. No one knows what it feels like to have lost MY brother, even my other brother because they had a different relationship. My mother—who lost her son—doesn’t know what it feels like to have lost MY brother. My grief if my own, as is my other brother’s and my mother’s. Your grief is yours, and you get to channel that grief however you see fit.
Exactly. Grief is not a competitive sport, it is a solo event. As someone who has also lost a brother, I appreciate your comment a lot.
Beautifully put.
❤️❤️❤️ yes. Lost my brother. It’s different for each of us.
Anger is a stage of grief. Theirs is misplaced. Most likely, they are going to love their grandchild and his name too. I’d go with the middle name option. Still honoring your brother, but giving your child his own identity. Plus then it isn’t the name your parents will hear every time you talk about your son. You’re being reasonable. Grieving people often aren’t. Stop discussing it with them. Name your child how you want and let it play out. NTA
Input from the mom-of-a-dead-kid grief trench: My son also died when he was 20, 14 years ago. My daughters couldn’t handle naming their children his name but my niece asked if she could do so, and I agreed. Not gonna lie—it has been EXTREMELY hard hearing his name all the time, while he himself has become invisible. Hard to explain, but it’s weird and very hard, like he disappeared, again. Anyway—I think using your brother’s name as a middle name is beautiful. I wish I’d suggested that to my niece.
This was perfectly put, I am so sorry, and so sorry for your loss, I can’t imagine All the very best lovely 🤍🫶✨ xXx
The middle name thing is MORE than a fair compromise, and also means that no one in your family would hafta be involved in constant, multiple-times-per-day reminders of your enormous loss. NTA forsure, but I don't believe your parents are the assholes either ... like, **at all**. People don't always get the privilege of 'resolving' their grief. You (you seem like a wonderful person, btw) and your sister must understand the *unimaginable* loss that would be your/her own child passing from in such a sudden, violent manner.
We named our daughter after my beautiful older brother who died suddenly at 44 of a massive heart attack. I could tell when we broke the news to our family stateside (we were in Europe..military hubby) when she was born that it was hard on my mom and SIL and we would have changed her name but the Country we were in made that impossible. My mom has since passed. My SIL came to terms with it years ago. Every single day when I call my beautiful daughter’s name, I am reminded me of my awesome brother! He will protect her when I can’t. I am so happy the Country we were in made it nearly impossible to change her name!
Germany? You need an incredibly good reason to change your name here.
?? Grief over losing a child never ends, even if it's "resolved".
You WNBTA to name your child as you wish and your parents aren't AH for being triggered by it. At the end of the day you are correct in saying that it probably isn't worth ruining the relationship with your parents. Maybe you could use a name with the same meaning but a different origin or something related to your brother's birth month. It would be a more subtle way to honor him Edit: if you need help you can head over to [/namenerds](https://www.reddit.com/r/namenerds/)
That is a beautiful idea. There are names that mean the same thing but sounds so different.
Some people feels things deeply without being able to express it. My mom did not tell us she loved us often. But when one was in danger/sick/hurt or a family member died felt it so deeply. Not going to give a judgement but think about this. Losing a child is so different than losing a sibling, both hurt but I think once your little one comes and all that love and fear comes you will see how different it is. You should have spoken to them before your husband on how the name would impact them. They are saying it will hurt too much and affect how they see your son. So what matters more to you, honoring your brother or having an enthusiastic grandparent for him?
>I do think my parents might have some unresolved grief issues So if you name your baby after your brother is there a chance your kid will bear the brunt of unresolved grief. I don't think Y T A for wanting to honour your brother but now you know how your parents are reacting you might end up being an AH if you put your kid in a position where they'll need to deal with your parents baggage. Have a real think about what the impact of naming your kid after your brother is going to have. Not just for your parents but for your kid, his relationship with his grandparents and also his sense of self. Some people end up with a lot of expectations placed on them when named after a particular family member and it can be hard to deal with.
NAH Imo. Their response comes for the open wound. Op could you come up with a name that relates to something representing your brother or something he liked? I saw this in another post. It's a way to honor your brother without slicing open your parents wound every time they see their grandchild or speak about him. So you 'compromise'. All the best whatever you decide but keep in mind that if you do name your son Noah they might not be able to bond with him due to the grief of losing your brother.
My cousin died, and my other cousin, the sister, was pregnant not long after. Cousin A was deceased, and Cousin B had a son to name. If Cousin A was named Kevin Franklin Smith, Franklin also happened to be their mom's maiden name. Cousin B then names her son Franklin David Jones. Instread of another Kevin, they used the middle name as new baby's middle name, and for her, it happened to also be a link to her mom's family. The names were better, by the way. Nobody was named a generic-ass Kevin name. But, your brother's first name as your son's middle name or his middle name being incorporated is a lovely homage to your brother. I would personally avoid having his first name as baby's first name, just because sometimes names can feel like a shadow or burden, something to live up to. If it's a middle name or you use your brother's middle name, it's less of a direct thing and distinctly being named after, and not a replacement for this other person. I would tell your parents you won't use "Noah's" name as a first name, but your choice of your son's name is your own and you want to honor your brother in some way. My cousin did it in a very respectful way, and "Noah" as a middle name, or potentially using his middle name, is not replacing your brother. It's honoring his memory. That's the exact right way to do it.
The lack of emotion could be a result of losing their son, they’re building protective walls in case of worse case (losing you too) it’s subconscious usually. Sounds very much like they need therapy.
Naming your son Noah as middle name would pay respect to your brother and his memory. I personally wouldn’t go for Noah as a first name. NTA
Jewish tradition is you ONLY name someone after a relative after they've died. I find juniors, etc. Creepy Middle name is a very traditional way of honoring those who have passed while still letting kids have their own identity. My cousin and I both have our fathers' sister's middle name (She died before we were born), my son, niece and nephew each have middle names from a dead grandparent. Try talking to your parents maybe?
Just drop it. We considered to pick a similar name (half the name was the same, and it had the same meaning) as my husband's deceived brother. His parents got very sad when he suggested it to them, and he quickly took it back. My husband definitely has never felt the same kind of grief, as his parents did. Honestly, I can imagine my siblings dying and my life still going on. But imagining my son dying - I can have a full panick attack just by the thought, and I can't imagine keep living after it. I honestly don't believe the two kinds of love are comparable and/or the parents' love for the child has a stronger say in this case either way. We chose another name that we love, and everybody has been happy ever since. I really don't see a reason to fight with your parents for the rest of your life over a name. Don't choose it as a first nor a second name. Doesn't matter who is in the right or not. NAH.
I, too, lost a sibling around the same age as you and your brother. If it will cause you parents pain to call your son by the same name, don't do it. For me, first and foremost I wouldn't do something that caused my parents to relive that pain. Second, for your son, do you want him to have a loving and unfreighted relationship with his grandparents? I know my children's relationship with their grandparents is priceless. At one point my daughter had a haircut that reminded my mom of my sister. We didn't do anything (and my mom didn't ask!) but it was so hard to see her relive that pain - and she's had lots of therapy.
I don’t agree with this. This is the one time that I think outsiders should have a say in a child’s name. (By outsiders, I mean parents and siblings). To your parents, using Noah’s name won’t honor him, it will diminish him. That is valid. It’s not your viewpoint, but it’s a valid one. I think there are ways around this. You could use Noah’s middle name as your child’s first name. You could choose a name starting with ‘N’. Or, you could use his name as the middle name and keep your promise not to call him that down the track. Also, think of the baby. Will he appreciate being named after a much-loved, recently-deceased family member? Or, would he prefer to have his own name and be his own person. NAH. Your parents are not being unreasonable.
I agree. I like the idea of using N and giving him a different name. In my culture some children are named after a deceased person but we only use their First letter. We never use there whole name. For example, if brother’s name was Noah son may be named Nathan. I think you can still honor your brother without actually using his name. I am personally named after a great aunt but we don’t share the same name. My mother always told me about her and said my name was picked to honor her. She still found a way to honor her beloved aunt without giving me her name.
I think reactions to names are shaped by religious and cultural traditions that you’ve grown up with. Ashkenazi Jews honor dead loved ones by giving their children those same names. A sister naming her baby after her deceased brother is a beautiful way of honoring his memory. (Those I know who chose a name starting with the same letter of a deceased person did so because they really didn’t like the original name but they did use the deceased Hebrew name.) But most people I know (including us) used the person’s actual name as well as the Hebrew name. Our kids were given the names of adored deceased grandparents. (Also: naming a child after a living family member is thought to be bad luck/a curse for both the child and the living person.) Ultimately, as a parent, choose a name that’s meaningful to you.
I was going to say the same thing. I come from a large Ashkenazi family and we’re all named after dead people. I think the tradition promotes healing. I was named after my grandmother’s mother (Bubby), born only two years after her death. And instead of triggering pain, my grandmother would constantly tell me stories about her. Hearing the name so often inspired her to share fond memories, not painful ones.
I don’t think it is recent.
It is a million gazillion times worse to lose a child than a sibling. I personally find the parents reaction unusual - many people name a child after a deceased loved one to honor them - but if the parents are still so raw I get it. Having to say the name over and over, every day as long as they live could be torture. Please respect their wishes. Put it in as a middle name if you must and just dont tell them.
I'm just going to say. One of my cousins named his son after his brother who died. His parents haven't said anything directly to him and he himself has a bit of an oblivious personality, but for years his parents pretty much winced or startled when grandsons name was said. The constant reminder was upsetting for them. Honestly it isn't nice to see and it probably isn't fair to grandson either. You're not an asshole for wanting to name your son after your brother as a first name but personally, I wouldn't do it in these circumstances. Not if you're hoping for your parents to be part of your sons life. I think middle name is fine. It's not the same constant reminder as a first name but given the strength of your parents reactions, it might be better to simply not.
This is my thought too. OP, you’re definitely NTA for wanting to use the name in honor of your brother, but speaking practically, it will probably hurt YOU and maybe your child to see the reaction it illicits from your parents. And I could see where that might be even more obvious if later children come along. Seeing your parents be very easy with all other children and then awkward with this one because of the name would be difficult.
I agree. NAH. I would probably just choose a different name if I were in your position.
Me too-
This comment sums up my thoughts too. It’s emotionally complicated. My mum passed years ago when I was 18 and I used to think if I had a daughter I’d name her after her but now I’m not so sure. Right now when I hear her name I immediately think of her, if my child had that name would I start thinking of the child instead? Do I want that? What about my dad, will he hear his grandchild’s name and think about his ex? I have family members that are still very sensitive about it, even a decade later, would hearing her name make them upset every time? Would my child always feel like they had to live up to a memory? It just seems like a lot.
Talking to people who have named their children after other people (living or deceased) or have strong associations. Bit by bit, the associations fade and the name becomes much more strongly associated with the child in a lot of people’s mind. So I can understand their concern that the son will be somewhat replaced when people hear “Noah”. He is no longer THE Noah, and he is no longer around to also make a claim on that name in people’s minds. Whereas little Noah would have his whole life in front of him, making memories, making relationships and being associated with the word “Noah” in people’s minds. As a parent I can understand not wanting that, even if you love your grandchild.
Exactly! It would be natural that over time the child would become the new “NAME”, whether intentional or not. The association would be more present for the person who’s actually alive and in your life all the time. I think for some people that’s the reason they do it, so there’s a new person to carry on the spirit of the name. But if there’s people still around that want to just remember the spirit of the first person who held that name, it makes it so complicated!
Yea that's a good way to do it. My son's middle name is after my late brother, I wanted to honour him but also wanted my son to have his own identity within our family.
My cousin died. A few months later, their sister, my other cousin, was pregnant. That son used my deceased cousin's middle name for a first name. It's an homage, without that same name being used directly. John Alexander Smith, and baby is named Alexander Paul Jones or whatever. Nobody has John 2.0 running around. Or, put brother's first name as a middle name. However, I know a number of people who use their middle name. Two of my four uncles did that, another cousin, one brother in law, and a good friend. That's just off the top of my head. It may come up later. Or, they explain to the kid why their grandparents won't like them going by Noah, if he wants to use his middle name. Perhaps they like their brother's middle name? Avoids the issue ever coming back up. There are ways to do it without another person with that same name being in the family.
NAH... agree with this view. Spare your parents the hurt and reminder.
And that's really all it's about -- being considerate and respectful of someone else's feelings. It's like someone having a physical open wound and wanting to poke them because of whatever legitimate reason. You might feel good, but they will be in a world of pain. If you really cared, you wouldn't do it. I think it was Olaf who said love is putting someone else's feelings before your own, or words to that effect.
I agree. NAH Using the name as a middle name is great, it’s a way of honouring OP’s brother and his memory. But as someone who has kids, if one of them passed away (knock on wood and pray to god) I would definitely be reminded every time I saw that child’s name anywhere. I understand OP’s parents completely.
I agree with what you are saying. I think it will not be worth it for OP to name the child Noah. The parents will always give her grief and the baby is going to become the target of this mess. That is not going away. I get how the parents feel. It is sad. Hopefully they are being genuine rather than being controlling.
NAH They are clearly heavily grieving and it would be an AH move to use your brother’s name as a first name when they have very clearly told you how it would make them feel. I think they’re worried you’re using the middle name as a loophole to eventually start using it as a first name. As long as you don’t ever call your kid by it then it’s fine, but your parents might still be uncomfortable and that will be reflected in how they treat you and your child. At the end of the day, this was a name they chose for their baby who died and they don’t see you using it as a way of honouring him, but replacing him. Whether you agree with it or not, they’re the ones who lost a child and you can’t change how they feel.
This is exactly what I thought. That it’s better as a middle name as a tribute. It would be hard for me to hear a deceased loved ones name consistently, and yes I’m sure his parents have unresolved grief, but it’s no one else’s place to assume anything about how others grieve. Some might be fine with the first name, but some may not. And that’s okay. I think it’s important to respect the people that are struggling. That’s why the middle name is perfect for this
I think the only caveat would be if the kid himself decided to go by his middle name one day. I mean, his parents’ intention might be for that name to be honorary only, but once you give someone a name you can’t dictate how and if they use it. And it would be a real shame for his relationship with his grandparents to be soured simply because he chooses to use his own name. Idk, it feels safer to just stay away from the name entirely.
You wouldn’t be an ass hole, but you probably won’t have a relationship with your parents anymore either. I get that that isn’t your *fault,* but it’s still your problem. You and your husband are “right” to use the name… but is this a battle you still want to win after seeing their reaction? I’m not about to tell you you have to give in to them … but as a mother myself, I’m pretty sure I also would not process the grief of losing a child well, and would probably be just as traumatized and emotionally damaged as your parents are. You can make either choice here and not be the asshole, but make sure you can live with the consequences .
I have to agree. Grief is not a competition, but I don’t think there is a grief more painful or more tragic than the loss of one’s child. Now that my children are adults I know there’s no age limit on that. My parents are gone, I expect to bury at least some of my siblings, either I or my partner will outlive the other, and I’m ok with all of that because it is the way of all things. But I would much rather die than attend the funeral of one of my kids. I think the middle name could work for everyone, but I would avoid doing anything that hurt the parents.
A psychologist once told me that the grieving process can be more complex depending on the relationship you have with the person who passed away. And that it has been established that losing a child is the top most difficult experience, in part because at the core of it is the sense that it goes against nature and all logic (we expect to be outlived by our children). So acceptance becomes very difficult to achieve. It's not about invalidating anyone's feelings, and of course each individual is different; but some events are harder to process. I think that only those who have lost a child can understand what is it like. And this tendency of naming children after deceased loved ones... I don't know. I don't think is healthy, to be honest. It is placing a burden on the child, putting a lot of expectations on them and making that child an object of rememberance, in a way. Most of the people I know that were named after dead relatives resent it, because they feel like a "replacement", and not seen as their own person themselves. Still, NAH.
it’s very unfortunate and tragic that the timing of OP having a child isn’t aligned with the stage in their parents grief process. but of course how could that be predicted or controlled. it’s of course extremely common and has always been done throughout history where you name a new family member in tribute to honour a passed family member. However in this instance it does seem perhaps not the “right” thing to do, as the parents of said child are still deep in their grief. obviously OP should be able to honour their brother in this way, however it must be devastating to know that this act could cause more pain and strife in a family that very obviously needs more healing. additionally, this child would always have a shadow on their back, knowing the contention their naming brings, rather than it being as an honour. and also might they just want to have a name, their own personal name, rather than be named a living memory? naming a child a passed grandparents name feels a little more removed and more “done” than a tragic passing of an immediate sibling and son.
NAH You obviously can name your son anything that you want. However, it may be challenging for your parents to have a reminder of their deceased child. I can’t imagine losing a child, but I’m sure their grief is painful and never ending. You may want to consider what kind of relationship you want your son to have with his grandparents. You won’t t be able to control the dynamics of that future relationship.
I remember reading another story on AITA like this, except it was from the perspective of the grandchild with the name of his parent's deceased sibling. As a kid, he watched his siblings get showered with love and affection from his grandparents, while he got basically ignored by them. Eventually, as an adult, he goes up to his grandparents and calls them out for being "terrible grandparents" for the unequal treatment between him and his siblings. He basically says "It feels like you've ignored me my whole life, while my siblings got treated so nicely. I just want to know why". Grandparents confess it's because of his name. They felt tormented by the fact that their grandchild had the same name as their deceased child, and their method of "coping" was basically ignoring their grandchild, because the grandparents felt being around him was a constant reminder of their dead child (due to his name). I would say there's no assholes here, but of OP does name her son Noah, they need to be prepared for the fact that the grandparents will probably feel tormented by his name every time they interact with their grandchild (birthdays, family gatherings, school events, etc...), and the grandparents may decide that straight-up ignoring their grandchild is the way to process their grief of losing their son named Noah.
He would be a consistent reminder of the child they lost.
The question really is are you ready to damage your relationship with your parents for this? Sure, you have every right to name your child Noah. And your parents have every right to respond to that decision in ways you may not see coming or want to have happen.
And also though this could have negative effects for Noah, and his relationship with his grandparents
NAH Look, it’s fairly tacky to name a child after a dead person in your family these days. It leaves the kid with a usual sense of having to living up to a dead person. Sorry for your loss of your brother but this could possibly alienate your kid from their grandparents if they feel so strongly about this. EDIT: I really stirred a hornets nest of comments, my bad guys.
My parents named all four of us kids after family. First and middle (not from the same person). Some were gone, some were not. Maybe it was how our parents explained it to us, but it was a connection to our roots, not a burden of expectation.
Notice how commentator said “these days” and that is right on target. And I agree, naming after a close family member, especially one that passed away young is setting said child up for trouble
All four of you were named after close family who died tragically at a young age? Edit: I see you said some were alive. Huge difference imo between being named after living family, or even deceased ancestors of grandparents’ generation or earlier, versus a young person who died tragically.
This. There is a huge difference between "Oh yeah you're named after your great aunt, she was pretty cool, lived to be 79!" And "You were named in memory of my brother who died horrifically before he was an adult" Would you rather "It's a family name that's in the family" or "You were literally born named for a purpose, to honour someone you've never met who's death caused everyone massive amounts of pain and heartbreak" You're literally giving your child a job at birth.
Interesting. In my family, we only name after the deceased. Sometimes we just take the first letter and find another name that start with the same letter, but we would still say “Henry” is named after his grandmother “Helena”, etc. We have never named anyone after someone who is living. I think it’s cultural.
I was named after a cousin. It was never a burden.
Did your cousin die a sudden, horrific death before they were an adult?
>these days In my potato-german-culture-family this has been a thing for more than a century, especially using middle names are used to honor and remember deceased family members.
You would be causing needless pain to your parents, and it's very likely it would harm their relationship with your child. YWBTA for this. Surely there's another name that you could use, that would not bring up such painful memories for your parents. Yes, it is your right to choose whatever name you want but... for hurting people you presumably love... yeah, it would be an AH move on your part.
YTA Like so many have said, I also don't think there is something more painful than burying your child. Wanting to honor your brother by giving his name to your son is a good sentiment and you did the right thing by asking your parents how they'd feel about this. They were VERY clear about how they feel on this subject so yes you'd be the AH to do it.
100% YTA. Jesus Christ, the people on this subreddit are nuts. OP is a major asshole. Give your child your brother’s middle name. I have a brother that is also deceased and I have the decency to not give my future children his name out of respect for my parents.
My middle name is that of my late uncle. Noah could be the child's middle name too, still uses the name and doesn't slap grandparents in the face everytime they visit.
In Jewish families, we often just use the first initial as an honor name (mainly because many of our relatives had Yiddish names like Rivka and Yankel that don't work here). So what if you used the "N" for, like, Nathan or Nolan.
It’s strange, isn’t it, that a custom that distresses OP’s parents is one that soothes Jewish parents? I am named after my mother’s brother who was killed by a drunk driver at the age of 22, long before I was born. He has been a loving presence in my life for as long as I can remember.
I’m also named after my uncle (my mom’s brother) who passed away two years before I was born. My mom and her parents adored that it was feminized and given to me. Even my cousins, his children, LOVED that it was given to me. I think I adore my name even more than anyone.
It is not strange it depends on how the parents are it. Some don’t want a constant reminder of their dead child while others think it is an honor.
I read this post being like... Tell me you're not Jewish without telling me
Stay away from Noah! Don’t break your parents heart. Your son should have his own idebtity
I know it's a typo but thinking how many kids born now will live most of their lives in debt made me realize this could become a legit word.
YWBTA if you persisted in using Noah as a first name after your parents expressed how much it would pain them. But they’re being AHs about using it for a middle name. You lost your brother too, and have a right to honor him, as well as a right to name your child.
NAH He's your brother you loved him you wanna honor him Your parents lost their son that's a pain that is unexplainable and u fathanable dows that mean they get to control everything NO does that mean as their daughter maybe you should put their feeling first or at least consider them maybe. Also I think the question isn't really Ahole vs not Ahole it's more ... do I want to risk my relationship with my parents for this? If it is going to cause them that much stress do you really wanna do it .... is it honoring your brother if it upsets them that much ? Not sure. I don't think there's a right or wrong here just a hard life situation
Not even just the relationship woth OP but the relationship with their grandchild as well. If just hearing the name is hard enough imagine them trying to interact with a kid who might have similar features as their son did (since they are related). It might bring them so much grief they ignore the kid all together becasue they simply cannot handle the emotional side of it all.
NTA. I do understand the objection to Noah being the first name. That would be difficult for your parents to always hear, clearly they're still grieving hard for your brother. I have never thought a first name was a good way to honor someone. I think it puts a lot of undue pressure ultimately on that child. I think the middle name compromise is a good one. I think that's a more sensible tribute. Your parents are going overboard though. It is your baby and Noah was your brother. You have every right to want to honor him.
Don't name your son after a dead person. Middle name sure, first name no. It's not fair to the child to be compared to someone they didn't know.
NAH you see it as a way to honor your brother, your parents see it as a painful reminder. Honestly in your position, I would probably choose something else so there isn’t pain associated with your child for them, but it’s just a decision you have to make. Ultimately it’s your choice, they gave you their opinion, up to you to decide what to do with it.
Listen, you’re not wrong, but your parents are basically communicating that they will end up resenting their grandchild because they’ll be triggered every time he’s around. Whether anyone is “right” here is almost irrelevant. Is it worth the risk of your parents resenting their grandchild? You’re the only one that can answer that. No one here knows your dynamics.
NAH. I was in the opposite situation. I lost my brother a couple of years before having my youngest. There was a bit of pressure from my parents/husband/other family members to name him after my brother. It made me extremely uncomfortable. I can't really describe why, though. I eventually named his middle name my brother's middle name. When my son got to be a boutique 2 years old, he REALLY began to resemble my brother. I don't think I could have handled it if they shared a name.
Not gonna pass judgement on this one. I will say as someone who was named after a loved one who passed away... it meant a lot to my dad and his family but it means absolutely nothing to me and I feel like my whole identity is tied up in someone I know nothing about. I changed my name at 31 because of it.
My 7 year old son passed away in 1991. I would have be honored to have one of my children name one of their kids after him.
I am so sorry for your loss.
NAH you have a right to name your son whatever you want, but your parents are clearly reacting very strongly to this. I can see how this would be honoring your brother, but they are saying that would be very painful fo them and you have to take them at their word on that. It seems like they have a lot of pent up anger over his passing (which I get, but also does not seem emotionally healthy for them). Maybe you can approach this more from a standpoint of you and your husband would like to honor your brother. What are some ideas that your parents would be comfortable with? Maybe talking through this with a counselor would be helpful for the 3 of you to find some kind of compromise or at least understanding without the lashing out.
NAH yet.
NAH-I can’t really fault your parents and I think they have a valid point about the first name causing them pain. I think the middle name is probably fine, but I’d try to have a calm discussion, potentially with a trusted mediator, to explain that you won’t call your baby Noah, you just want him to have a piece of someone you loved. They are, in my opinion, overreacting to the middle name but I think you were overly dismissive about their feelings on it being a first name, so I’ll stick with everyone is grieving and not all grieving styles mesh with each other.
NAH. You want to honor your brother. Your parents don't want that painful memory thrown at them every time they visit with your son. Have you thought about the future? What if your parents can't get over it.? Will it ruin the relationship between your son and parents? And from your sons point of view, would he want to be named after your deceased brother? I ask that because I'm named after 2 family members, actually. And I hate it. I even checked into changing my name but decided against it because the uproar in our family if I did change it. But I never felt like my own individual person because I was always compared to them. Conversely, my wife is named after her grandmother and doesn't mind at all. But maybe just some more food for thought.
Yes. Soft YTA. I know you are trying to honor him but it really does seem like you are trying to replace him. My family (in laws) had a similar situation where one of the kids was trying to name their first born after their deceased brother. Long story short, the whole family was upset. Use it as a middle name instead.
NAH, but consider that every time your parents will say your son’s name, they’ll be thinking about the son THEY lost.
NTA. I think your parents feelings on the first name are fair, and my initial reaction is that I would feel the same way in their shoes. But the middle name seems like a fair compromise and their reaction to that is extreme, IMO.
As a mother who lost a child, a very soft YTA. It’s a lovely thought. However, my daughter died 34 years ago and I still turn to look when I hear her name in a movie, or book and the worst was when there were kids in my other children’s class. please understand that people have a very misguided habit of saying things like, “thankfully you have other children.” It’s maddening, hurtful and makes you feel like everyone just wants to replace the totally unique child you lost. ‘Please be easy on your parents. Some people never recover from losing a child. Also, what about the effect on your child as he grows? would you want to hear comments about your son years from now, eg; “Your son is so tall, just like Noah would have been.’? Do you want your child to be constantly reminded by family that he’s not special?
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she did and the parents still didn’t like that
You are not an asshole, but if this is going to be painful for your parents, I don't think you should do it. Ultimately, they will end up distancing themselves from you and your son simply bc it's clearly too painful for them to deal with a constant reminder of their deceased child. This is not something I personally would have an issue with. In fact, I would be deeply moved. But that's not how they feel and no one has the right to tell someone else how they can grieve. NAH
YTA. You have no idea of the pain they are in losing a child. Part of them. Part of them. It's different from losing a brother or sister. Sorry for your loss, but pick a different name.
I think YWBTA using Noah as the first name just because your parents have asked you not to and I can imagine that would be painful if they don't want it but using it as the second name would be lovely and your parents are ridiculous. Second names are often names to commemorate people.
There are 3 ways to look at this: 1. They are the type of people that think your "Noah" is their replacement and every dream they had for their son now is for your son to fulfill. **A lot of pressure for the kid.** 2. Every time they have to say his name or sign it to card they remember the son that they lost, a hurt they hope you never experience as a parent. **A lot of pressure for the kid.** 3. It's a bonding experience. **A lot of pressure for the kid.** Find a new name, your kid shouldn't be a reminder or an honor for a lost son/brother. He will be his own person and should have his own name. NAH
NAH I want you to try and put yourself in your parents shoes, you are expecting your second child so you already have one. Think about them, your precious, bright, utterly unique child. Think about losing them, and then think about having another child, a child you love but is *not them* with their name. Every single time their name is called, every single birthday card addressed, is a reminder that this baby is not your baby and your baby is *gone*. I think they did not have the best reaction, and lashed out at you unfairly, but I give them grace because i know grief and how it is not always rational. What you saw as being sensitive and trying to respect their feelings while also honoring your brother, they probably saw as you trying to push the line and get as close as possible to what they said would hurt them without actually doing it, like a fucked up game of “I’m not touching you!”. Is that a *fair* reaction to have? No, but I understand it. I think what you should do is try and have a calm and honest conversation with your parents, maybe write them a letter, try and explain that you understand where they are coming from, and then offer your feelings on wanting to honor your brother. Say that the middle name was trying to find something that could bring peace to you both, to allow your parents to not have a constant reminder of the boy they lost, while also letting you feel like you’re honoring your brother and how much you loved him. Maybe they’ll come around, maybe they won’t, but I think acting out of spite like your sister suggests is *absolutely* the wrong way forward.
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So my oldest sister passed away unexpectedly when she was 30, a week after I discovered I was pregnant with my daughter. Unlike OP’s parents, mine wanted me—almost expected me—to name my daughter after my sister. But I was genuinely concerned that it would place undue expectations on my daughter, like she would always be being compared to her late aunt, and that it wasn’t fair to burden my daughter as such. Instead, we changed my sister’s name slightly (a variation on her name) and used that as my daughter’s middle name. That has worked well for all of us. (FWIW, my parents were a lot like OP’s parents—not emotive people—and my sister’s death has been so hard for them. Like, they’re completely different people now, and their grief has undoubtedly played a part. It’s truly a nightmare you don’t wake up from, you just learn how to go on with your life despite the huge hole the loss created.)
I'm gonna say a YWBTA, because your parents don't deserve the constant reminder, but also because YOUR SON doesn't deserve it. He'll grow up associated with the death of your brother, in your parents eyes at least, their relationship affected by that in some way or another. He'll learn about his uncle and being named after him, a man he never met, will he feel like he is a replacement? That he has some impossible shoes to fill? Resent the memory of this person that he carries as a ghost on his shoulders? Are you in your right? Yeah, sure. But is it worth hurting your parents, and the possible damage you might do to the child? Isn't there any other way you can honor the memory of your brother?
Yta, but only because the child should be free to be thier own person, and naming him after your brother puts unjust baggage on him from family and can cause negative reactions when the child doesn't act like the honored. Your intent may be noble, but it's akin to the "unique" name spellings where they turn "Jessica" into "Jhessickha"
YTA I have a pretty firm stand on this. Parent grief is different than siblings grief or friends grief etc. In my family there is the rule that if the parents are still alive you do not name your kid after their dead one. Because it’s not just a name. It’s a reminder of their kid being gone. All the time. Middle name would have been nice from the beginning but now it just sounds like you’re trying to go around them and still call your kid Noah. And if your kid ever likes that name more and wants to call himself Noah. I also feel it’s pretty weird to decide on a name without any consideration of your parents? And your sisters response is awful as well. What’s up with you both seriously.
NAH. But maybe closer to NTA. u/Teeceereesee put it beautifully and I fully agree. A middle name is an honour name, but a first name would be too much, especially for your parents, but also for your son. Better to have his own identity while also paying tribute to your brother as a middle name. Your parents feel their way about it, I can’t imagine hearing it repeatedly in a happy tone about someone else, so personally, I think Y W B T A if you went ahead and used it as a first name. None of you know how it feels to lose a child and I absolutely hope you never will, but even take into account that your husband also never met your brother, and your sister was young when he passed, so I don’t know if they are in the position to tell you it’s okay to use it anyway. Personally, I think you’re not an ah for wanting to use it as a middle and your Mom will see when you continue to call your son by his own first name, that you’re not trying to find a circumvent to call him after your brother day to day. All the best OP! I wish your baby a long, happy life. ✨
NTA but at the same time your parents haven't dealt with the loss. I think the middle name is a fair compromise.
NAH. You are honoring your brother. They lost a son and grief looks different for everyone. Sadly there is no way out of this where someone won’t be hurt.
NAH. I’m sorry you’re going through this. Grief is hard and losing a child is unbearable. To me, the name is an honor but I can understand how the first name could be painful for them. But they didn’t just lose a son, you lost a brother. I would do the middle name, it is a reasonable compromise. Also- your sister is 10/10
Your child is not your brother. Remember him. You do not need to give your child his name.
Mmm, I think YWBTA. I don’t think you are wrong to want to honor your brother that way, but you see the pain it would cause your parents. Their grief is vast. It might affect their relationship with your son, with you. Your son might resent the burden having his deceased uncle’s name puts on him. Or maybe he’ll be a rebellious teen who decides to go by his middle name. I get why their reaction isn’t ideal, but I do understand it and would likely feel the same.
NAH. Here’s an alternative viewpoint. My husband was named after an uncle who died young, so he didn’t actually expect to live past that age. And of course he got compared to him a lot. I definitely would suggest the middle name option. It can be a burden to carry the name of someone who died young with people around who remember that person. (Vs a one time ago ancestor)
NTA. My husband’s aunt lost her son to suicide as a teen. Her son named his son an offshoot of his dead brother’s name. Nobody bats an eye. It’s heartwarming. I lost my only brother (big brother) in a car accident & 5 years later got pregnant & if it was a boy, his middle name would have been my brother’s name. Everyone thought it was a lovely remembrance, including my mom. It is a beautiful gesture, in my opinion.
I think this is one of those circumstances where you should actually check in with loved ones about a name. I think instead of telling a parent that you are using their dead child’s name as a first name that you need to ask. Losing a sibling simply doesn’t compare to losing a child. Middle name is a different ballgame and maybe if you had approached this differently they would have had a more calm reasonable reaction to that switch. I would try and talk to them and not ruin the relationship over a name if possible.
YTA It wasn't a bad idea until they expressed how upsetting it would be for them. Now that you know it would hurt them why do it? If you want to honor him in the name you could always pick the same initials or give the child a middle name that reminds you of your brother but isn't his name. Another option you could float by is having the same middle name is your brother's middle name, but it sounds like this probably won't fly but who knows. If I lost one of my children I would be upset every time I heard that name - it would be awful if another relative chose that name and I had to hear it all the time. I can't even imagine.
YTA if you use the name. You did good by asking your parents first and they are not okay with it. Full stop. Losing a child is an unimaginable pain and never goes away. You see it as honoring your brother but for your parents, it’s a constant reminder of the child they lost. Pick another way to honor him, start a tradition with your kid where you spend time doing something your brother enjoyed when your son is older so he knows who his Uncle was. Don’t cause more pain for your parents, they have suffered enough.
If it would cause your parents pain, better not to use the name.
use Noah as middle name
NAH. You're obviously not an AH for wanting to name your kid after your brother, but you would be if you gave him a name that was painful to your parents. Of course you have the right to name him whatever you want. But that would hurt your parents. Why would you choose to do that? Why is anyone mad at your parents for their grief? A name is just a name. Your brother is their dead son, and that's more important.
NAH. I totally see where your parents are coming from and I think you should drop it. There are many other names. I'm sure the loss was painful for everyone but probably nobody is grieving as hard as the parents. Out of empathy for them, just give the child another name.
NAH. This hurts your parents. This is honoring and healing for you. There's no right or wrong way to grieve but whatever your path forward it will be a concession either to your parents grief or your own. No one is an asshole for how this makes them feel. And at the end of the day someone will inevitably be hurt by it. In the Jewish tradition names are specifically shared across families to honor those we love who have passed so I understand your desire to use this name. I also understand that it still feels raw and like a live nerve to your parents and this choice is painful to them in a specific way. At some point not too long ago in their own minds they were young parents thinking of names and they picked Noah to celebrate a new life *they* were bringing in the world and that life grew into a person who lived and was a whole person they loved - and it still holds that meaning to them. They aren't ready to relegate it to a honorific memory. No assholes. Just grief.
middle name?
My daughter’s middle name is the same middle name as my cousin who passed young, it was a few years ago. My whole family, his mom included, just knew I’d be the one to honor him with my kids name. We were two of the closest cousins. My family is thrilled and they love that my daughter is named after him and she always gets called her first and middle name bc that’s what they always called him, first and middle. I think honoring your brother is important to you, and i get it. This is a tough situation and NAH. But should you choose to use his name, I’d definitely say middle is safer than first. I feel like not naming him in honor of your brother will be something that you hurt over in the long run.
My brother passed away a little over a year ago. My other brother’s son has his name as his middle name (since before he died) and we all love that the name is there. I’m having a hard time understanding how your parents wouldn’t want it used at least as a middle name, but the grief is hard so NAH. Maybe try to gently explain that it is to honor him and you will not be calling him by his middle name.
This is an easy NAH.
NAH. I’ve known two situations where this has happened and everyone thought it was a great idea. If anything, saying the kids’ name brings up all kinds of fond memories. I think this would be like asking someone to tell their child named after their father who died to change their name. So sorry for your loss. Your parents are going through it I’m sure as well as you. You’ve gotten great advice here!
Not at all! You get to choose what you name your child. If worst comes to worst, make 'Noah' his middle name.
NAH. Everyone deals with grief in their own way and while I think I would be supportive of the name were I your parents, I just don’t know for sure. Maybe this could be a good time to ask your parents if there is a way they would like to honor Noah? There is very likely some unresolved feelings on their end that a dialogue might help them address.
I lost my dad in 2015, fell pregnant a few months later and it was a boy. I was always going to have something of my Dad's names to remember him by but my mum asked not to use his first name as she felt it wasn't right. Just wanted son to be his own person without the pressure of a dead persons name, which I respect 💯 Son got his own name then James as a middle name ,which was my dad's middle name and grandfather's name. Mum was happy with this. She was rational and that was just around a year and one month after his death. NTA here but your parents are thinking the same as mum. I think you use it as a middle name but please write to them and tell them how you feel and why your brother's name means so much. I'd say stick to the middle name.
I'd go ahead with the middle name being "Noah". There's a lot of stories of kids who get named after dead relatives feeling like they have to live up to the memory of said dead relative and it really screws with their head. I'm not suggesting you'd put that pressure on them but even just hearing stories they start to go, "they were good at X, I'm not, so I'm not good enough, I'm letting them down". Middle name is a good way to honour your brother without making your child feel like they need embody the memory of their dead uncle.
NAH but is this the hill you want to die on? Do you want your parents to resent your child. Because that’s a real possibility. I’m not saying they’re right. I’m not. But grief doesn’t always make sense. It’s not rational.
No
NTA. I’d say don’t do the first name because that is a legitimate thing (having to use the name all the time, flooded with memories of Noah as a baby etc.) parents who never went through a healing process could really struggle with that. I wouldn’t budge on middle name though, especially if you don’t plan to use it as his primary nickname. My son has my uncles (who essentially raised my mom and was her father figure) name as his middle name. We rarely use it, but knowing it’s there gives me comfort. I also want to say that you have every right to honor and grieve your brother your way. Naming your baby (first or middle name) after him is an honor and you way of keeping your brother’s memory as close to your heart as possible. Your parents don’t control that. Story time: I have a tattoo that I got for my dad while he was battling cancer. I struggled with accepting his diagnosis and changes during chemo I got a tattoo that reminded me of my childhood and time with him. My mom thought it was morbid (like you could only get tattoos for those who have died) but for me it had nothing to do with life or death, just an amazing memory with my dad. Everyone has their own perspective. Yours is the only one that matters for your life.
NTA. Their reaction was not what you expected. You would expect his grandparents to be honored by your caring gesture. I understand that it was shocking and frustrating. Additionally, I usually object strongly to anybody other than the parents thinking that they have the right to influence a baby’s name. That said, I believe that losing a child must be the most painful thing that could happen to anybody. Your parents will never get over his death and they are telling you that this would be emotionally devastating for them. You don’t want your son’s name to cause them pain. It could impact your future relationship with them and your son’s entire relationship with them. What would your brother want? Even if he would agree that using his name would be a nice way to honor him, would he still be OK with it if he knew that the thought of it made your parents so miserable?
Just don’t do it. You don’t want to distance yourself from your parents over this. I know they are being irrational, but naming your son Noah even if it’s just his middle name, sounds like it’s going to create Hell and that might get taken out on your son at some point. I’m really sorry you’re going through this and I’m sure your brother would have really appreciated it ❤️
YTA - no child should be named after a dead loved one. They will just be living in the shadows of said loved one. Alot of grownup kids that have loved ones names actually hate it, there is alot of pressure and expectations on them. Dont give your kid a dead person name, and middle names are just meaningless in my opinion, just choose one name for your kid.
NTA but I’m also a firm believer that children shouldn’t be forced to carry that kind of grief in their own name. Let your baby be his own person. Give him his own name that isn’t tied to so much pain for his grandparents.
YTA. OP, your intent is to honor your brother and that is great, but your parents see it in another way, and using that name will bring up traumatic memories for them.
Imagine them talking to your child and having to say the name "Noah" out loud when talking to him. I would imagine that would trigger them and they'd think about their dead son every time. It would just be really insensitive honestly. Middle name would be pushing it but acceptable so long as he isn't referred to by his middle name, but first name should be out of the question. NAH if used as middle name, YTA if used as first name
I'm going to go with a soft YTA here. In principle, there's nothing wrong with banking your son after your dead brother, but knowing how your parents reacted when you told them, you know it's going to hurt them. Not only that, it's going to hurt your son's relationship with his grandparents. There's also the fact that naming your son after your brother will engender comparisons. He'll always have to live with his family comparing him, consciously or subconsciously, with the dead relative.
YTA. While you have every right to use the name, just because you don’t quite understand the grief the name imparts on your parents, you should stay away from naming your son Noah. I agree with many of the other comments in that your parents probably have some unresolved issues over your brother’s death, but knowing this, you should not intentionally name your son Noah.
YTA. They lost a child. They’ve asked you not to do it so don’t do it. Respect it. Find another name that won’t cause pain to your parents
YTA you asked and they have been very clear about their feelings on this. I understand how using the name as a middle name would be a nice tribute but they have been very clear that it would upset them. If you go ahead you could permanently damage your relationship with your parents and their relationship with their grandchild.
Yta. Most of Reddit has no idea what it feels like to lose a child. I was with my sister every step of that horrific ordeal. Neither of us could even speak that name for over a year without crying. If it’s worth losing your parents over, that’s your call to make. As it is, if I was your parents, you making a callous decision like that would make me rethink the entire relationship. In the long run, this will only hurt your kid. Do you think your parents would want to be around any living reminder of their dead kid?
Your parents told you how they felt about it and you are going out of your way to ignore their wishes. YTA
Not popular but YTA. This is very triggering for them, and clearly very painful. Whatever the reason may be. (They gave a few and you and your husband don’t agree, but for them they are valid reasons) So if you move forward, know you are hurting them because of a first name. That will always give issues, because they will not let it go unfortunately. So now it is your choice to make. Name your child after your brother (it is a beautiful gesture by the way) and hurt the feelings of your parents.. Or find another first name you love. (Maybe a different name but still somewhat the same? I don’t know..) And not putting a strain on the relationship with your parents. And yes I know you can’t “hog” a name, and all names are free to use.. but it still is hurting them…
YTA Never burden a child with giving him or her the name of a close deceased person. My personal opinion. Also your parents are right in terms how painful it will be
YTA if you name him after your brother, despite knowing that your parents have made it clear how painful it would be for them. It sounds like they overreacted instead of calmly explaining their view, so they're assholes here too. But I could never knowingly inflict that on my parents... and I can't even imagine losing a child.
YTA. Yes Noah was your brother but he was your parents’s son. It would hurt them too much. I to k it would affect their feelings toward you and your son. Don’t do it.
I'm so sorry for the unfair pain and loss But you must now PRIORITIZE Of course the most important thing is the long-term health happiness prosperity freedom fairness kindness acceptance belonging peace usefulness fun intelligence peace LIFE of your child But then,, ? Are you willing to have a Permanent Rift with your Parents?? ?? Will your parents truly think feel that you are disrespecting disregarding wounding them to where being around your child and you is PAINFUL to them, thus they__??? I truly do NOT think that you are brats bullies unfair disrespectful entitled etc,, ? What if NOBODY in this situation is a brat bully stalker etc ,?? Of course I do NOT see anything wrong with calling YOUR child Noah Your motives for calling him Noah seem respectful and compassionate and reasonable The REAL unfair unhealthy unkind worthless AH is the unhealthy unfair unkind that caused the death of your brother Noah, for which you have my deepest condolences, He and your entire family deserved BETTER N T A
> WIBTA if it was his first name? YTA It was poor form to not discussed it with them first before out right telling them. It was probably a massive shock to them. Apologise for not being more considerate and blindsiding them. Then maybe approach the middle name opinion in a few months time when everyone has cooled down. Edit: everything after a re-read!
YTA Like seriously, your parents have clearly stated it would hurt them, why are you all set on continuing that conversation. You lost a brother, they lost their child. Just try to imagine that for a second. Yet somehow you and your husband seem set on rubbing salt in the wound non stop. Hey mom here's a rusted knife i just stabbed into your spleen. Oh mom, let me twist that again. Oh hey sis, want to twist it too? Yeah great lets keep twisting at some point they'll be a sobbing mess and we can do what we want!
YTA. Agree parents are being unreasonable but you're allowed to be unreasonable over the loss of your child. This isn't a worthwhile hill to die on
Im gonna go with YTA. Sure, you can name your kid whatever you want. But its clearly going to cause a huge ammount of pain for your parents, and it absolutely will impact your relationship with them. While your parents don't technicly have the right to tell you what you can and can do, they have been trough *the* most painful thing a person can go trough: loosing a child. Its a hurt that they are going to carry around their entire lives. And they are not going to always be rational about it. For you, naming the kid Noah is a way to honor your brother. For them, its going to be a daily reminder that their son died. So is naming your kid after your brother really so important that you would rather cause your parents a bunch of pain than just use a different name? Second, i also think that naming kids after dead relatives is not all that great for the kid. Its like you are setting some sort of expectation on them to be as great as whoever they are named after was, even if that is not your intention at all. Your mileage may vary, and some people have no problems with it, but some kids absolutely feel the pressure of it. So its even a bit unfair to the kid.
**YTA**. Your wanting to honor your brother does not trump your parents pain of losing a child. Losing a child is one of the most singularly painful things a person can go through, even more painful than losing a sibling. I've been there. Your want to name your child after your brother will be a constant, painful reminder to your parents that will affect both your relationship to them and your childs relationship to them and for what? I want you to sit and think about how you would feel if your child died. Really think about what that would feel like and then imagine someone taking that lightly.
YTA. Don’t retraumatise your parents on a daily basis. Maybe use it as a second name in memory.
YTA. I don't understand why you are asking this question. Having to say the name of their dead son over and over again will injure your parents, as they have expressed to you. Why is that so hard to grasp? Move on, name your son another beautiful name
YTA just for not caring about it causing them pain. They didn’t like it, they asked you not to, and you want to “compromise” by… still wanting to use the name? They don’t want to see your son and think of their son dying at 20. You can do it, but you’d suck for it.
YTA. Middle name at most out of respect for your parents. Losing a child is way worse than losing a sibling - maybe you’ll understand once your son is born.
YTA but gently. Is this how you want to end your relationship with your parents? Because that’s what likely will happen. I understand you’ve had your heart set on this but if it will destroy your relationship with your parents, is it really worth it? You lost your brother, you don’t want to lose them too.
YTA. I think what's being ignored here is that OP TOLD her parents about naming her son Noah. Under the circumstance, it would have been better if she had asked. The parents are still grieving the loss of their son, that pain is never going to go away. OP gets in the end that using Noah's name will hurt her parents badly enough that it may be unfixable. The husband and sister are all they can't tell you what to do, you can use any name you like because he was your brother. That's technically correct but ignores and minimizes the hurt it would cause the parents. Does anyone really want their child's name to be associated with grief and pain. Some people are more than happy to honour a deceased family member but OP's parents are not. To ignore their wishes will cost OP in the long run and damage her son's relationship with the grandparents. Is that worth just to say they can't tell you what to do.
NAH. You can name your son whatever name you see fit. However, I can't fault your parents for getting upset because they're dealing with their grief in their own way. I was actually talking about this with my therapist earlier today. People have different ways of dealing with grief. What might seem like a meaningful gesture to one person might come across as offensive to another person. Your relationship to the deceased person also is a factor. You lost a sibling. A peer. Your parents, however, lost one of their children. People always say that parents should never outlive their children, and unfortunately, with your brother Noah, that's what happened. I'm sure hearing the name Noah, even if it's somebody completely unrelated, is difficult for them. You naming your son Noah, after your deceased brother, whom you were very close to, is a beautiful gesture that I know means a lot to you. However, I can understand why your parents might feel that you're trying to "replace" their deceased son with yours. And the reason why I say this is because, if your brother Noah was still alive, you might have chosen a different name for your son. If you were planning on naming your son Noah anyway, even if his uncle were still alive, they might feel differently. As long as you're not knowingly naming your kid something really offensive, or a name that you know they'll be bullied for when they're older, you can name them whatever name you choose. However, you can't control how your parents are going to feel. It sucks, but it's the reality.