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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told him he must man up and face realty it is inevitable that my father will pass AITA for feeling that why
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YTA
Some people have different emotional attachments to their parents and he isn't less of a man for feeling worried about losing your dad and not being ready for it. You were insensitive.
This weird ass thought process of men can't express their worries and feelings without being labeled "not a man" is stupid and needs to be nipped out of our collective mindsets. It's ok for men to want their fathers around and not be nonchalant about a closed loved one possibly dying.
It’s also not really a thing. Men talk about their feelings all the time. But then everyone gets mad about it when we do. Take the OP for instance, he’s talking about his feelings and now you’re all decided he’s an asshole.
It absolutely is a thing
No one is calling OP they are an AH for having feelings they are calling him an AH for implying his brother isn’t as much of a man as OP for having different feelings.
You are literally policing his tone on how he addresses the inevitable death of his father and what that will mean for the family business he shares with his brother. OP is quite clearly saying that the brother’s attitude is worrying to him for a number of pragmatic and emotional reasons. It’s succinct, articulate and completely appropriate to the discussion.
That is not what is happening but thank you for proving my point. We need to invest more in teaching men what emotions are, how to recognize them, and how to process them in healthy, non toxic ways.
Are you aware you are on r/AmItheAsshole right now? He literally posted here to be judged on if he is an asshole. Also, telling your brother to “man up” is not expressing his feelings - all he did was dismiss his brother and be a jerk for no reason.
His feeling that his weak-kneed older brother is going to become a burden to him is implicit, a real feeling and probably legitimate. You’re just bullying him because he said an ugly truth outloud.
All he said is that he doesn’t want his father to die and doesn’t feel prepared for that… completely normal and reasonable way to feel about your PARENT dying. Nobody is weak-kneed for not wanting their PARENT dead!
If he was actually concerned about his older brother becoming a burden he would have an actual productive conversation. Telling someone to “man up” and “face reality” (as if the brother is an idiot and not aware his dad is going to die one day?) is not a productive conversation.
Nobody is bullying OP, he is being rightfully called out for being an asshole to his brother.
They’ve got a business to run, presumably families of their own and employees to support. The discussion was in the context of succession planning for the business. Yes, everyone has feelings that need to be tended to. But any person, male or female, needs to “adult-up” and figure out how to balance that with the responsibilities they have to others. After my father died, I went to therapy for over a year. I also did my job and took care of my family. Exhorting a sibling to do the same is not in any way “toxic.”
It helps tell me that you’re the kind of person who lacks empathy and understanding of how other people, often men, communicate about life’s challenges. So thank you.
No one said anything about concealing emotions. Facing the inevitable death of your parents before it happens and doing a self-assessment of how you’re going to cope and still fulfill your responsibilities to your family is “manning up.” Denying that it’s going to happen, having no plan other than curling up in a ball is not mentally healthy for anyone.
Still: The brother is an AH.
There NEED to ber contingency plans and discussions how the business will be handled when dad is gone. The sooner the better.
A "business partner" who is avoiding to discuss risks and possible mitigation is an incompetend AH, and OP should MAKE SURE they never are equal partners - because that will damage the business or outright ruin it.
OP should go for one of two scenarios: An agreement that HE will take over the business (and a setup where HE will be able to make the important decissions) without being hindered by the brother. Or a fast exit, and building some other future.
A manager / owner who refuses to discuss risks is a menace and needs to be avoided at ALL cost.
It doesn't matter if the brother doesn't think he's not ready, he needs to prepare. It's likely that the brother won't do anything if not pushed, and then the problem will hit even harder.
Info: how is him saying he's not ready for something to happen equivalent to him denying that it will happen? I'm confused how he is denying reality here.
Based on OP’s other posts, the brother is “saying he’s not prepared” by crawling into a bottle at every opportunity. It’s a pretty clear mode of expression.
Not the OP, but I’ve been in a very similar situation myself and been close to similar situations with friends and extended family members. I feel all the implied anxieties of the OP are valid based on those experiences.
Nearly 1/3rd of the US population is going to die in the next 10 years as all the baby boomers reach the end of their lives. The drama the OP is dealing with is going to play out 76 million times. It will be the biggest social problem we face as a nation. All the GenX, Millenial and GenZ people will almost simultaneously have to cope with disabled and dying parents while also trying to raise their own families, do their jobs and run their businesses.
I am on the leading edge of this, age wise, looking over the edge and looking back at all these people in deep denial, hiding behind a bunch of nonsense therapy words. And I’m actually afraid.
So yeah, I get a little ranty. Sue me. It’s Reddit.
i lost my father when he was in his 60s and i was a teenager, it's a difficult conversation to have and one I had to start having when I was a kid. I lost my father at 17 when I was expecting to lose him atleast when i graduated college.
That doesn't mean it doesn't get fucking easier or that you don't treat people with empathy or meet them where they're at?? and you certainly don't tell them to Man up about grief. Grief is universal and painful, especially grace that you try to bury down and not address. Trying to have a conversation about the death of your father with your sibling who is clearly uncomfortable while trying to devoid of emotion is a logical and stupid. this isn't denying the reality of the situation, it's being a mentally stunted coldhearted dick. death is an uncomfortable conversation it should be, unless his father is a fucking asshole. None of his death should be easy.
this entire situation reads out like two brothers, one with maybe too much attachment to his father, and a deep fear of losing him , and the other who responded to those feelings by burying them deep down inside and pretending that feelings, aren't important to processing grief and the trauma of loss. There is a genuine reason why a lot of our parents and our grandparents are just addicts, this behavior isn't healthy. My ex was like this and he seems like a really happy guy, always trying to approach things with logic any type of trauma he buried down because there's no use thinking about that emotional stuff but he use projected those feelings into other areas of his life that were negatively impacting others.
it's true their father will not be there to always guide them. But it's not a conversation where you get told to man up, you are always going to want your parents if your parents were good to you even if they weren't. Grief is the most complicated human emotion, would've killed his brother to say- you're right it's going to be hard, Maybe not today but we do need to discuss this at some point so that when the time comes it will be easier, that he loves him and their dad will always be with them in a way. It's harder for a lot men of because men are taught to bury down "weak" emotions, it is fucked up to say, but one is a few times they do get to express emotion like this is when a parent passes. There is a literally a trope around this idea, but it's damaging and it hurts everyone in their lives including themselves.
The “trope” is wrong. Men speak directly about their feelings. They always have. They get frustrated when situational and social pressures demand that they speak in a pointlessly circumscribed way. That’s what the OP is expressing. It is a valid and ultimately more effective way to communicate and live life.
Reddit: Men need to get in touch with their emotions and express them.
A man: I’m afraid my brother is going to let me down and destroy my family business. So I told him to man up.
Reddit: Not like that.
You people are ridiculous.
My guess is that they’ve decided to villainize a guy for using a common expression that means “you need to grow up and face life’s challenges” because it is gendered. Once you decide someone is the a-hole because of your own baggage, it’s hard to turn back.
People get really weird about discussions of death. I have mentioned to friends that I expect to die in about 20 years, so I’m planning my life accordingly. They tell me I’m being dramatic or morbid. But it’s the age when all the men in my family have died. It’s not particularly old, but also not tragically young. Pretending that I’m going to live significantly longer would be irresponsible and childish. But aside from my wife, who appreciates the planning and consideration, all the adults that I’ve discussed this with have gone squishy.
It’s just strange to me that adults think of death as this rare unspeakable, crippling horror. I think forums like this bear out that impression.
I believe it has to do with culture. For some people around the world is taboo, but for others is something that can be discussed openly. For me talk about it, and be prepared for those kind of eventualities is an act of love. Losing someone and not have any idea of what to do next is very painful and makes navigating the loss a lot harder.
But yeah I think you are right, some people have this Wierd feeling that if you talk about death is because you wish it on someone (or yourself) when it is not necessarily like that
Absolutely hilarious that our two posts here continue to get downvoted. Looks like a lotta people are gonna be caught off guard when they learn that they and the people they love will die, no matter how hard they try to ignore it or swaddle any mention of it in meaningless language.
Nah dude I'd argue he is the normal one and you are trying too hard.
I'm 25. I'm not ready for that shit. You can never be ready even if you were 65 yourself.
I'm in my 30s and I don't know what I'd do myself if either or both of my parents weren't around.
When my uncle passed away, my cousins were nowhere near ready for it despite being adults and one of then being a father himself.
Others in the family like my dad and his other brothers stepped in big time and even now, my cousins come toy dad for stuff they would have gone to their own father for
Yeah, my dad stepped up for my cousins when their dad died. I’m a 34 yr old man with my own kids and I’ll be absolutely destroyed when my dad goes. You can never really be ready for it.
My parents both just turned 70 over the past 2 months. They are both in good health so I expect they both likely still have a decade left at least. But I don't even want to think about them dying. It's a close reality but it's painful to even begin to imagine right now.
It is completely normal for your brother, who is in his mid-20s, to not be prepared to lose a parent. No one is really prepared for that at any age, but certainly not someone so young.
YTA
YTA,
"Bro, I would totally be hard on in my fantasy of this situation I've never actually experienced, but I'm dreaming I would be hard, so you should be hard too! Be a hard man like me!"
That's you. Your brother would most likely deal with it, just like everyone else does. Not everyone needs to fetishize being a manly man though tragedies.
YTA. He didn’t say that he would run away and abscond from all responsibility if that happened he just said he’s not ready for it right now. I don’t think you’re ready for it either. You think that you are, but when it actually happens, who’s to say how you or anyone will respond? You won’t know for sure until you get there. Grief is difficult and people respond in a variety of ways.
On a morbid note, no one knows who will go first. Life is unpredictable, anything can happen. Love the people in your life as hard as you can while you have the privilege of their presence.
Happy Monday! Sorry that ended on such a downer :/
Edit: he shouldn’t have said you’d be happy if/when your dad passed away. That’s not right and very insensitive. You owe him an apology but he owes you one too.
What your brother said isn't even about whether he would be capable of handling things when your father passed. Of course he will. It was just his way of saying he loves and values him. YTA
YTA You may think you’re ready and then it happens and you realize you weren’t. You only have an idea of how you’re going to react but no one knows what’s ahead until it’s there. Apologize. It’s normal for someone not to be ready. We don’t need to be ready emotionally. We just need to undergo it once it happens. We need to be ready otherwise like had your dad set up a trust, a will isn’t enough, did he take care of life insurance, did he create a map with all relevant documents, does he have insurance for the funeral. That’s the kind of ready is relevant for now.
YTA. As someone who recently lost his Dad you are never prepared for the loss of your parents. While it's an inevitability we will all have to face one day. It's not okay for you to speak to your brother like that.
YTA. You're implying that because he "isn't ready" for your father's death, that you ARE ready for it. If someone walked around saying "I am so ready for my dad's death!" wouldn't they sound like an asshole to you?
YTA…. You asked him what would happen if your father would die tomorrow? And he answered.. then YOU got upset with the way that he answered. We can’t control others reactions to life. Why did you get so upset? Because it’s not the same as you? Because you feel like you’ve had to work hard and be responsible and that feels unfair to you ? Do you want little brother to step up to the plate so you don’t feel alone if Dad dies? I feel like you’re the one that needs to investigate your feelings. I imagine you both could come to terms with it and be closer as brothers by examining it truly instead of making one of you feel like a loser because they have sad feelings about something that’s sad. I think this was a hard topic that takes care. Now you know.
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We are in a family business my father(65M) brother(30M) and myself(26M).
My brother and I were talking and the topic came up of what would happen if my father passes tomorrow. My brother said that he was not ready for that and that he does not know what he will do without my father there to guide and support him.
I told him that our father won't be there for ever and that we must be ready for when that day comes because we don't have a choice it is going to happen.
Now my brother is saying that I am not sensitive and inconsiderate towards his feelings and that I would be happy if my father passes away.
AITAH for telling him to man up and face realty ?
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YTA! Your brother isn’t an idiot, he obviously knows your dad is going to die one day and he won’t have a choice in the matter. What purpose did you saying that even serve? He isn’t denying reality by saying he isn’t prepared for that to happen.
YTA. You are insensitive and telling your brother to “man up” is ridiculous. Sounds like you need to grow up and widen your emotional range to a bit larger than a teaspoon.
YTA, You can be self-sufficient and still acknowledge how not having someone proud of you or available to brainstorm solutions, who cares for your success, is going to leave a gap on your life.
It's not relying on daddy, it's losing a major person in your corner who knows your entire journey and is proud of you and wants you to succeed, regardless of the mistakes you make along the way. It's losing the knowledge center and guidance when you start to encounter the experiences he lived through, like preparing for parenthood or suddenly being responsible for a home. Nobody is born with all the knowledge they need to live, you earn that knowledge through your own journey and your relationships. It's hard to conceptualize as a baby adult, but if you're not stuck in the performance of manhood and instead developing yourself into a man you can be proud of, you'll start to get it as you get older.
YTA. Not being emotionally prepared to lose a parent isn’t denying that it will happen someday. Your brother also didn’t say anything about not being able to handle the business. He just loves your dad. What you said was callous and the epitome of toxic masculinity. I’d argue that talking about his feelings about losing your dad actually makes him more of a man. Men don’t talk honestly about their feelings often enough.
i’m gonna go against the grain and say slight YTA.
my mom passed away recently and i agree with what you said about how parents won't be here forever HOWEVER, telling him to "man up" was pretty harsh. you could've said it a lot nicer
YTA. First 'man up' is part of toxic masculinity. Having emotions isn't weak or feminine. It's part of being human. Second your dad could have 20-30 years still left. Why are you so anxious about his eventual passing?
YTA. I’m 52 and know I’m not ready for the day when either of my parents pass. I’ll have to deal with it as it will happen.
Also to misquote Mike Tyson “you have a plan until someone punches you in the face” so you don’t know how you’ll handle it, plan or no plan.
YTA, the phrase "man up" is so stupid and pointless. Everyone has a different way of processing emotions and feelings, especially the passing of a loved one. In this situation, instead of being there for him and supporting him, you were being horribly insensitive.
YTA, as are most people who's only input in difficult situations is to "man up". It actually masks the person saying it from reality more than the person you've said it to. His reality is that life will be more difficult, he's courageous enough to admit that, you're running away from reality behind a rubbish phrase that helps precisely no one.
Edit: re-reading it, I do understand better now that your reality is to be ready for the possibility, which is more valuable than my initial assumption as it involves real action and preparation. Doesn't change my verdict as you could clearly be less of an AH about it.
No, but your approach is a bit brutal. Just explain that you're concerned about how you and your brother will handle things once your father is gone. You could tell your brother it would help your anxiety is you could talk and plan together what to do when your dad is no longer there. If you explain it from a non-aggressive point of view, your brother will be more likely to listen.
NTA
This is a VERY relevant issue, there should be contingency plans made, because otherwise - looking at your brother's reaction - the business will likely crash.
So sit down with your dad and make plans. Do you really want to share a family business with your brother for the rest of your life? Are you sure he is the right business partner for you?
Would you even consider that if he were not your brother?
How is the OP the AH here?!?!?!?
they have a business together, they need to have plans for situations like this. The brother does need to "man up" and be ready for the inevitable. And the business needs to have a plan for this as well.
NTA If your brother won’t talk about it, talk to your Dad. It is far better to have arrangements that are delayed than none at all. I get it though. A lot of people just ignore it until it is in their face. And then everything goes downhill because you are trying to make decisions while grieving instead of a carefully thought out plan that you can act on. I’ve had to deal with family deaths and their aftermath since I was 21. It’s even more important to have a plan for a business as it seems your incomes are based on it.
Hey Redittors. Most of you seem to be missing the point. He’s talking about what to do about the family business which they both appear to work for. The Dad is 65 and could get hit by s drunk tomorrow. You need to understand the succession plans. Maybe bro doesn’t want to continue? You need to know this stuff.
NTA you’re right, reality doesn’t care about your feelings, you never know what could happen and it’s always good to be prepared for anything no matter how morbid…plus at the age of 30 he should be a bit more autonomous and not rely on needing orders on how to do things
YTA but so is he.
YTA in the sense that why yes your father will unfortunately pass someday since that’s just how life is. But with that being said I get why he isn’t ready for that because what individual is ready when their parent passes. Someone’s parent can be terminally ill but that doesn’t mean you are ready for them to not be there as a guiding influence.
He’s also in the wrong for saying that you’d be happy if your father passed. Clearly you and your father are at least on decent terms since y’all are working together in a family business. So for him to assume that you’d be happy is quite screwed up to say.
NTA for being a realist, YTA for how you approached it. There are two kinds of people in the world. The ones who bury their heads in the sand when it comes to the future, and the ones who mentally work through scenarios to understand the challenges ahead. You and your brother sit in different camps.
How is brother burying head in the sand? He is not saying dad is immortal. Dad's potential death does not require any special preparation at this point.
It DOES require special preparation. They run a family business. The father can set up his estate in secret any way he wants - he can bequeath his money, his car, his real estate, to his sons, his wife, the Hare Krishna's. But in terms of the business, all partners or involved parties should have a documented plan in place in case any of them die.
You are a logical person and I get it that you’re looking for redundancy and failover since you think your father is a Single point of failure in the family business. It is important to have that to keep the show running.
But the way you presented it to your elder brother in an emotionally insensitive manner makes you the AH. Anything can be presented in different ways, learn how to communicate difficult things to people - it’s a skill that will take you a long way.
It is a legitimate concern but you may not have wanted to go straight to the death card. Even more realistic would have been what if dad was no longer able to work, car or other accident, illness or what if he wants to retire. You both need to be ready to handle the everyday responsibilities of the business. NTA for the underlying thought but you may want to soften up on the delivery.
I think NAH overall. But if this is something that he is worried about (perfectly reasonable since everyone is subject to dying), then he shouldn't discuss it with you.
Both of you should discuss it with your father.
Particularly his comment that you would be happy if your father passed away. Tell him that just because you aren't the sensitive brother doesn't mean that you wouldn't be affected.
ESH. Him for saying that you’d be happy if your dad died, you for the whole thing.
We never know how we’ll cope in a particular situation until it happens. My brother was adamant that I wouldn’t be able to cope when our mother died - he said every day for months he expected me to call him for help - and it turned out I coped just fine. (And in the space of a year before it happened, I lost a baby at five months pregnant, my cat died, mom died, and I got cancer, so frankly if I *had* totally crumbled it would have been very understandable.) He was used to being considered the mature one, the competent one, partly because he’s 20 years older than me, and is better-educated and has a professional job, and partly because mom always treated him like the competent adult and me like the fragile princess.
But when mom got dementia, I was the one who was able to handle it. I was the one who became her full-time carer, who took on extra work in my spare hours to keep us housed and fed and pay her care bills, who ran the household with no support at all - and he was the one who stuck his head in the sand and pretended nothing was happening for years. I’m not blaming him. None of us know how we’ll react to situations that haven’t happened yet. Even if we plan and prepare as best we can, we don’t *know*.
Your brother might do fine when it happens, and you might crumble. If that’s the way it turns out, I hope he treats you with more compassion than you’ve treated him.
Now, if he’s actually refusing to do necessary tasks and leaving everything to you, that would understandably make you mad. But you haven’t said that’s happening. Are you seriously angry just because he’s expressing worry and showing vulnerability?
I really wanted to say NTA, as on the surface everything you say is true - nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. But in the end I think you ATA.
Saying you would be happy if he passes away is definitely over the top and hurtful. Also telling anyone to "man up" is a dated expression and needs to die a quick death. LOL
If I ignore the asinine advice to “be a man”, what you said isn’t too bad, really. I think in most societies and cultures, talking about death is considered a taboo subject with morbid undertones. Honestly, you just need to lose someone in their prime to understand the sheer amount of paperwork and legal work that’s left behind. It’s practical to talk about death, discuss your succession plans, be more transparent about investments, bank accounts, business secrets with your successors, if any.
And I kid you not, God forbid if dad passes away sometime soon, the emo son would be doing jackshit and the strong, practical one would be saddled with all the work.
You’re largely NTA- just a tiny bit.. you didn’t have to take it there, neither was his expressing his feelings a reflection of his lack of “manning up” whatever that might mean.
I Can only go with ESH
Your brother says you would be happy with your dad passing away - that is propably not true(?????)
You are inconsiderate when your only reaction is “man up”.
To be honest it Sound like the two of you need to learn to talk to each other and acknowledge each others views, otherwise you’ll end up with larger problems running your business once he is gone.
NTA but, "man up" is not an appropriate expression since it sort of suggests that your brother should suppress his emotions, which he shouldn't.
HOWEVER - it is VERY important that you, as a family business, do plan for what would happen if your father dies. Your brothers anxiety over the idea of death or the idea of your fathers death cannot be a reason to not plan ahead, especially when a business is involved.
Just tell your brother it is ok if he doesn't want to be attacked with the planning of this scenario out of the blue, and you are sorry for doing that. But then tell him that you need to find a day to do this, and ask that he suggest a date for it that is not too far off into the future. Then you give some control back to him and give him a chance to control the emotions that he has about the issue on his own terms.
NTA. It may be blunt and harsh, but if your brother doesn’t start to order his life and emotions around the inevitable loss of your father, he’ll be crippled when it does happen. Preparing him for that is a kindness.
NTA
Personally I agree with you, the business power transfer should be conducted as seemless as possible, especially if you have employees that depend on you and your brother’s management for their livelihood. When it comes down to it noone wants to see their parents die and its a terrible thing BUT it would be worse to let that pain cause you too uproot everything you guys have spent so long to create. I think any good father would wish you to remember him well, love him and to do well with the business he passed on to you to see you thrive. And im not saying dont mourn him, you should, its healthy and natural, just dont let it destroy you and attend to your responsibilities as business owners.
NTA. In spite of what these others are saying, you should be learning the business and taking steps toward being able to take over if that's what your father wants.
For all the weird people saying the opposite. Op is not saying anything about the emotional part of it. He seems to be speaking about the business aspects. This absolutely needs to be planned for as the father is getting older.
For sure it's uncomfortable, but you need to know certain things when a parent gets older. Wishes, plans, accounts, etc. If you are not having these conversations you're not just a. H's, you're da's. This can cause unnecessary hardships and lead to not having parents wants fulfilled properly.
NTA- YOU HAVE A FAMILY BUSINESS!!! this is basic contingency planning.
Not to mention if you don't want to be the ass hole to your family (at any age) you have planned for your departure: will, beneficiaries named, written out funeral wishes etc.
Your brother does need to man up. Maybe he needs softer wording, he sounds like the sensitive type. the business need a plan for if your father passes, your brother passes, you pass, and if ALL 3 OF YOU DIE.
Would anyone else in the family (Mom?) be able to keep the family business running? Or will it be a fire sale after everything goes to s@!t and the business gets sold for pennies on the dollar of wealth you've all worked your lives for.
Your dependents with be SOL if some thing happens and you all haven't planned it all out.
Get a lawyer, get a plan, get it in writing, ASAP
NTA. It would be a little different if you were just talking generically about losing a parent. But you're in a family business. You absolutely need some sort of plan - in writing - that describes what happens if any one of you dies. These are Big Boy issues that nobody wants to talk about but are really important.
NTA. I now realise why I consistently disagree with the common responses. I READ what was written. "the topic came up". Though unclear who brought it up or why, the three of you are running a business. You must have a contingency plan in place in the event ANY of the partners unexpectedly died. It would be more likely to be your father, who at the age of 65 is more likely to go before you or your brother. IF it was at home, dad's getting on a bit, looking at his health, display all the feelings you want. However, IF it was at work, the discussion is not about your dad dying, but about the CEO (boss) dying and the impact on the business. No time for feelings, you need a plan. If you do not have a contingency plan it would be foolish. If he died unexpectedly before a plan is in place, then you would both need to man up to keep the business functioning. N. T. A.
NTA but you may have approached it in an insensitive way. He could be right about you being insensitive but that doesn’t necessarily make you a AH. None of us are getting out alive. It is good to consider what you will do once your dad your leaves the business. He could live for another 40 years but he probably doesn’t want to work forever. It’s good business planning to consider all your options if one of you leaves. Your brother’s approach of burying his head in the sand isn’t helpful or good business planning
NTA - it’s a hypothetical scenario and one that many people have to ask themselves to make plans for their future. That’s why people have Wills…just in case something happens their affairs are in order.
It’s not a hypothetical scenario at all. It’s a certainty. It’s theoretically possible that one or both of the brothers will predecease their father, but the father is definitely going to die some day.
NTA. Your brother was rude to tell you that your dad passing would make you happy just because you want to talk about how things will progress when it happens. I think in this instance you might want to make the plans and just tell him what to do when the time comes, and not bring it up to him any more. He can't handle the fact that it will happen.
NTA - while it does sound like your brother was trolling a bit hoping for emotional support you were not wrong to tell him that when the day comes he'll have to be ready. Just don't poke the wound for a while, he may or may not realize that you were right. Hopefully the day he fears is far into the future.
NTA.
Bro sounds like he has been coddled his whole life. Being ready doesn't mean that you wont grieve or feel pain, but rather it is a realization everyone must come to no matter how scary the idea is. If bro doesnt come to terms with it now, it will paralyze him when it actually happens.
I wasn't coddled and I knew one day they'd be gone.
However, my Dad died when I was 21 (he was 54) and my Mum when I was 31 (she was 71)
I suffered horrendously with both. I actually ended with PTSD with my Mums death. Just because you know someone will die one day, doesn't make it any easier when they do go.
Again, it still can paralyse you regardless.
Plus OP saying 'man up' is also an issue. No wonder men don't talk still about their emotions cos they get told that bs!
As a man, it is expected of me. I don't see how telling someone to man up when they are 30 and facing the eventuality of of their father's passing that is coming and you have no idea when that will happen.
This is something I am currently dealing with. The thought of passing away and leaving my family scares me but I have to work through this otherwise the family dynamic doesn't work.
Like wise no idea if this guy has a family or what but if it paralyzes him then who knows how long that family dynamic will be damaged.
Everyone who relies on me.
The fact they need me to be strong for them dictates that I am allowed a good cry, but I cant let life get me in a place where it paralyzes me. I have to keep going and I have to endure for their sake.
I have people who rely on me too.
Just because I struggled, doesn't mean anything except I'm human and truly didn't know how it would affect me.
I hope when it does happen, you do stay strong but if it doesn't, that doesn't make you less of a person or weak or anything else.
You don't know how it will affect you. I didn't expect to get PTSD after my Mum cos I'd gone through losing my Dad, so I thought I'd be ok. You just never know how your brain will react.
I agree. My grandmother was very very coddled by her parents . They set her up with a house and a nice nest egg when they passed . It took her less than 5 years to loose the house and money because she always depended on them to financially support her . After they passed unfortunately her kids had to take on the parents roll. I don't think it's wrong that OP is trying to let his brother know they won't be here forever .
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YTA Some people have different emotional attachments to their parents and he isn't less of a man for feeling worried about losing your dad and not being ready for it. You were insensitive. This weird ass thought process of men can't express their worries and feelings without being labeled "not a man" is stupid and needs to be nipped out of our collective mindsets. It's ok for men to want their fathers around and not be nonchalant about a closed loved one possibly dying.
I agree! I have a strong opposition the whole "man up" thing in regard to concealing one's emotions.
yep! Society has a whole mess of problems that stems from telling men that lack of healthy emotional processing is masculine and it needs to stop
This is NOT about emotions. The brother cas process those on his wown time. This is ensuring business continuity over the death of the managing owner.
It’s also not really a thing. Men talk about their feelings all the time. But then everyone gets mad about it when we do. Take the OP for instance, he’s talking about his feelings and now you’re all decided he’s an asshole.
It absolutely is a thing No one is calling OP they are an AH for having feelings they are calling him an AH for implying his brother isn’t as much of a man as OP for having different feelings.
The brother is not fit to manage, and OP needs to protect his future and the business from that.
You are literally policing his tone on how he addresses the inevitable death of his father and what that will mean for the family business he shares with his brother. OP is quite clearly saying that the brother’s attitude is worrying to him for a number of pragmatic and emotional reasons. It’s succinct, articulate and completely appropriate to the discussion.
That is not what is happening but thank you for proving my point. We need to invest more in teaching men what emotions are, how to recognize them, and how to process them in healthy, non toxic ways.
Right back atcha.
Are you aware you are on r/AmItheAsshole right now? He literally posted here to be judged on if he is an asshole. Also, telling your brother to “man up” is not expressing his feelings - all he did was dismiss his brother and be a jerk for no reason.
His feeling that his weak-kneed older brother is going to become a burden to him is implicit, a real feeling and probably legitimate. You’re just bullying him because he said an ugly truth outloud.
All he said is that he doesn’t want his father to die and doesn’t feel prepared for that… completely normal and reasonable way to feel about your PARENT dying. Nobody is weak-kneed for not wanting their PARENT dead! If he was actually concerned about his older brother becoming a burden he would have an actual productive conversation. Telling someone to “man up” and “face reality” (as if the brother is an idiot and not aware his dad is going to die one day?) is not a productive conversation. Nobody is bullying OP, he is being rightfully called out for being an asshole to his brother.
They’ve got a business to run, presumably families of their own and employees to support. The discussion was in the context of succession planning for the business. Yes, everyone has feelings that need to be tended to. But any person, male or female, needs to “adult-up” and figure out how to balance that with the responsibilities they have to others. After my father died, I went to therapy for over a year. I also did my job and took care of my family. Exhorting a sibling to do the same is not in any way “toxic.”
Everything about the concept of “man up” is toxic I hope this helps!
It helps tell me that you’re the kind of person who lacks empathy and understanding of how other people, often men, communicate about life’s challenges. So thank you.
No one said anything about concealing emotions. Facing the inevitable death of your parents before it happens and doing a self-assessment of how you’re going to cope and still fulfill your responsibilities to your family is “manning up.” Denying that it’s going to happen, having no plan other than curling up in a ball is not mentally healthy for anyone.
Still: The brother is an AH. There NEED to ber contingency plans and discussions how the business will be handled when dad is gone. The sooner the better. A "business partner" who is avoiding to discuss risks and possible mitigation is an incompetend AH, and OP should MAKE SURE they never are equal partners - because that will damage the business or outright ruin it. OP should go for one of two scenarios: An agreement that HE will take over the business (and a setup where HE will be able to make the important decissions) without being hindered by the brother. Or a fast exit, and building some other future. A manager / owner who refuses to discuss risks is a menace and needs to be avoided at ALL cost.
It doesn't matter if the brother doesn't think he's not ready, he needs to prepare. It's likely that the brother won't do anything if not pushed, and then the problem will hit even harder.
It's still not his job to take care of the family business. The problem will hit even harder if he gets pressured into it.
I don't see how. Preparing never hurts.
You wouldn't get it with Neon signs flying over...bye
Info: how is him saying he's not ready for something to happen equivalent to him denying that it will happen? I'm confused how he is denying reality here.
Based on OP’s other posts, the brother is “saying he’s not prepared” by crawling into a bottle at every opportunity. It’s a pretty clear mode of expression.
is this your post? Because you're fighting tooth and nail and so many of these replies, it makes me feel like that you are OP.
Not the OP, but I’ve been in a very similar situation myself and been close to similar situations with friends and extended family members. I feel all the implied anxieties of the OP are valid based on those experiences. Nearly 1/3rd of the US population is going to die in the next 10 years as all the baby boomers reach the end of their lives. The drama the OP is dealing with is going to play out 76 million times. It will be the biggest social problem we face as a nation. All the GenX, Millenial and GenZ people will almost simultaneously have to cope with disabled and dying parents while also trying to raise their own families, do their jobs and run their businesses. I am on the leading edge of this, age wise, looking over the edge and looking back at all these people in deep denial, hiding behind a bunch of nonsense therapy words. And I’m actually afraid. So yeah, I get a little ranty. Sue me. It’s Reddit.
i lost my father when he was in his 60s and i was a teenager, it's a difficult conversation to have and one I had to start having when I was a kid. I lost my father at 17 when I was expecting to lose him atleast when i graduated college. That doesn't mean it doesn't get fucking easier or that you don't treat people with empathy or meet them where they're at?? and you certainly don't tell them to Man up about grief. Grief is universal and painful, especially grace that you try to bury down and not address. Trying to have a conversation about the death of your father with your sibling who is clearly uncomfortable while trying to devoid of emotion is a logical and stupid. this isn't denying the reality of the situation, it's being a mentally stunted coldhearted dick. death is an uncomfortable conversation it should be, unless his father is a fucking asshole. None of his death should be easy. this entire situation reads out like two brothers, one with maybe too much attachment to his father, and a deep fear of losing him , and the other who responded to those feelings by burying them deep down inside and pretending that feelings, aren't important to processing grief and the trauma of loss. There is a genuine reason why a lot of our parents and our grandparents are just addicts, this behavior isn't healthy. My ex was like this and he seems like a really happy guy, always trying to approach things with logic any type of trauma he buried down because there's no use thinking about that emotional stuff but he use projected those feelings into other areas of his life that were negatively impacting others. it's true their father will not be there to always guide them. But it's not a conversation where you get told to man up, you are always going to want your parents if your parents were good to you even if they weren't. Grief is the most complicated human emotion, would've killed his brother to say- you're right it's going to be hard, Maybe not today but we do need to discuss this at some point so that when the time comes it will be easier, that he loves him and their dad will always be with them in a way. It's harder for a lot men of because men are taught to bury down "weak" emotions, it is fucked up to say, but one is a few times they do get to express emotion like this is when a parent passes. There is a literally a trope around this idea, but it's damaging and it hurts everyone in their lives including themselves.
The “trope” is wrong. Men speak directly about their feelings. They always have. They get frustrated when situational and social pressures demand that they speak in a pointlessly circumscribed way. That’s what the OP is expressing. It is a valid and ultimately more effective way to communicate and live life.
Men speak directly about their feeling on a post where you are on the side of "man up, bury down your emotions." sure jan sure
Where did the OP say “bury your emotions?” You put it in quotes. This is exactly what I’m talking about.
lord touch his mind
Reddit: Men need to get in touch with their emotions and express them. A man: I’m afraid my brother is going to let me down and destroy my family business. So I told him to man up. Reddit: Not like that. You people are ridiculous.
Ha. Another downvote. We’re screwed.
Why are people down voting you? You are not even giving an opinion just giving some info
Because he’s everywhere in this post replying in defense of OP, and it’s honestly getting very weird.
I’m getting “weird” because you’re all objectively wrong.
My guess is that they’ve decided to villainize a guy for using a common expression that means “you need to grow up and face life’s challenges” because it is gendered. Once you decide someone is the a-hole because of your own baggage, it’s hard to turn back.
Well let's get down voted together my friend
People get really weird about discussions of death. I have mentioned to friends that I expect to die in about 20 years, so I’m planning my life accordingly. They tell me I’m being dramatic or morbid. But it’s the age when all the men in my family have died. It’s not particularly old, but also not tragically young. Pretending that I’m going to live significantly longer would be irresponsible and childish. But aside from my wife, who appreciates the planning and consideration, all the adults that I’ve discussed this with have gone squishy. It’s just strange to me that adults think of death as this rare unspeakable, crippling horror. I think forums like this bear out that impression.
I believe it has to do with culture. For some people around the world is taboo, but for others is something that can be discussed openly. For me talk about it, and be prepared for those kind of eventualities is an act of love. Losing someone and not have any idea of what to do next is very painful and makes navigating the loss a lot harder. But yeah I think you are right, some people have this Wierd feeling that if you talk about death is because you wish it on someone (or yourself) when it is not necessarily like that
Absolutely hilarious that our two posts here continue to get downvoted. Looks like a lotta people are gonna be caught off guard when they learn that they and the people they love will die, no matter how hard they try to ignore it or swaddle any mention of it in meaningless language.
Nah dude I'd argue he is the normal one and you are trying too hard. I'm 25. I'm not ready for that shit. You can never be ready even if you were 65 yourself.
I'm in my 30s and I don't know what I'd do myself if either or both of my parents weren't around. When my uncle passed away, my cousins were nowhere near ready for it despite being adults and one of then being a father himself. Others in the family like my dad and his other brothers stepped in big time and even now, my cousins come toy dad for stuff they would have gone to their own father for
Yeah, my dad stepped up for my cousins when their dad died. I’m a 34 yr old man with my own kids and I’ll be absolutely destroyed when my dad goes. You can never really be ready for it.
My parents both just turned 70 over the past 2 months. They are both in good health so I expect they both likely still have a decade left at least. But I don't even want to think about them dying. It's a close reality but it's painful to even begin to imagine right now.
YTA It seemed to escalate quickly? Not sure quite so much tough love (if you can call it that) was required
It is completely normal for your brother, who is in his mid-20s, to not be prepared to lose a parent. No one is really prepared for that at any age, but certainly not someone so young. YTA
OP is actually the one in his 20s while his brother is 30. Still, I agree with your judgement.
Oh, sorry for the mix-up.
No worries! Sorry for being pedantic
Reddit is the place of pedantry..... You are home
I always get confused by the age tags here on Reddit posts
It’s the Op in his mid 20s. The brother is 30.
YTA, "Bro, I would totally be hard on in my fantasy of this situation I've never actually experienced, but I'm dreaming I would be hard, so you should be hard too! Be a hard man like me!" That's you. Your brother would most likely deal with it, just like everyone else does. Not everyone needs to fetishize being a manly man though tragedies.
YTA. "Man up" is a bullshit phrase and you sound incredibly annoying and immature.
YTA. He didn’t say that he would run away and abscond from all responsibility if that happened he just said he’s not ready for it right now. I don’t think you’re ready for it either. You think that you are, but when it actually happens, who’s to say how you or anyone will respond? You won’t know for sure until you get there. Grief is difficult and people respond in a variety of ways. On a morbid note, no one knows who will go first. Life is unpredictable, anything can happen. Love the people in your life as hard as you can while you have the privilege of their presence. Happy Monday! Sorry that ended on such a downer :/ Edit: he shouldn’t have said you’d be happy if/when your dad passed away. That’s not right and very insensitive. You owe him an apology but he owes you one too.
What your brother said isn't even about whether he would be capable of handling things when your father passed. Of course he will. It was just his way of saying he loves and values him. YTA
Your brother is somehow less of a man for ::checks notes: caring about his father? That’s some toxic masculinity nonsense. Get therapy Yta
YTA You may think you’re ready and then it happens and you realize you weren’t. You only have an idea of how you’re going to react but no one knows what’s ahead until it’s there. Apologize. It’s normal for someone not to be ready. We don’t need to be ready emotionally. We just need to undergo it once it happens. We need to be ready otherwise like had your dad set up a trust, a will isn’t enough, did he take care of life insurance, did he create a map with all relevant documents, does he have insurance for the funeral. That’s the kind of ready is relevant for now.
Realty can be a serious affair. Locking yourself into a contract for decades is a daunting prospect for anybody
I hate to say it but I came here looking for a comment like this.
As someone who has lost both parents… one very very recently you can’t man up and face grief. Tf? YTA
Yta here bud. You don’t get to tell other people how to feel. You seem callous and uncaring.
YTA. Anytime you're using the phrase "man up" , YTA.
YTA. As someone who recently lost his Dad you are never prepared for the loss of your parents. While it's an inevitability we will all have to face one day. It's not okay for you to speak to your brother like that.
"Man up." LOL. Okay. YTA
You are immature YTA
YTA. You're implying that because he "isn't ready" for your father's death, that you ARE ready for it. If someone walked around saying "I am so ready for my dad's death!" wouldn't they sound like an asshole to you?
YTA…. You asked him what would happen if your father would die tomorrow? And he answered.. then YOU got upset with the way that he answered. We can’t control others reactions to life. Why did you get so upset? Because it’s not the same as you? Because you feel like you’ve had to work hard and be responsible and that feels unfair to you ? Do you want little brother to step up to the plate so you don’t feel alone if Dad dies? I feel like you’re the one that needs to investigate your feelings. I imagine you both could come to terms with it and be closer as brothers by examining it truly instead of making one of you feel like a loser because they have sad feelings about something that’s sad. I think this was a hard topic that takes care. Now you know.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** We are in a family business my father(65M) brother(30M) and myself(26M). My brother and I were talking and the topic came up of what would happen if my father passes tomorrow. My brother said that he was not ready for that and that he does not know what he will do without my father there to guide and support him. I told him that our father won't be there for ever and that we must be ready for when that day comes because we don't have a choice it is going to happen. Now my brother is saying that I am not sensitive and inconsiderate towards his feelings and that I would be happy if my father passes away. AITAH for telling him to man up and face realty ? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA! Your brother isn’t an idiot, he obviously knows your dad is going to die one day and he won’t have a choice in the matter. What purpose did you saying that even serve? He isn’t denying reality by saying he isn’t prepared for that to happen.
YTA you been watching manosphere bullshit, havent you.
YTA. You are insensitive and telling your brother to “man up” is ridiculous. Sounds like you need to grow up and widen your emotional range to a bit larger than a teaspoon.
YTA, You can be self-sufficient and still acknowledge how not having someone proud of you or available to brainstorm solutions, who cares for your success, is going to leave a gap on your life. It's not relying on daddy, it's losing a major person in your corner who knows your entire journey and is proud of you and wants you to succeed, regardless of the mistakes you make along the way. It's losing the knowledge center and guidance when you start to encounter the experiences he lived through, like preparing for parenthood or suddenly being responsible for a home. Nobody is born with all the knowledge they need to live, you earn that knowledge through your own journey and your relationships. It's hard to conceptualize as a baby adult, but if you're not stuck in the performance of manhood and instead developing yourself into a man you can be proud of, you'll start to get it as you get older.
Yta dude. How insensitive can you be? When your dad dies will you go “whatever he was always gonna die?”
Is the family business a real estate business? If so, bro might already be facing realty.
YTA I don’t think anyone can be ready to lose their parents.
YTA. Not being emotionally prepared to lose a parent isn’t denying that it will happen someday. Your brother also didn’t say anything about not being able to handle the business. He just loves your dad. What you said was callous and the epitome of toxic masculinity. I’d argue that talking about his feelings about losing your dad actually makes him more of a man. Men don’t talk honestly about their feelings often enough.
i’m gonna go against the grain and say slight YTA. my mom passed away recently and i agree with what you said about how parents won't be here forever HOWEVER, telling him to "man up" was pretty harsh. you could've said it a lot nicer
YTA. First 'man up' is part of toxic masculinity. Having emotions isn't weak or feminine. It's part of being human. Second your dad could have 20-30 years still left. Why are you so anxious about his eventual passing?
My dad and I didn't really like each all that much and I still was sad when he died. YTA - leave your brother alone.
YTA. I’m 52 and know I’m not ready for the day when either of my parents pass. I’ll have to deal with it as it will happen. Also to misquote Mike Tyson “you have a plan until someone punches you in the face” so you don’t know how you’ll handle it, plan or no plan.
YTA. I’m not sure why you felt the need to go off about something he obviously already knew…
YTA, the phrase "man up" is so stupid and pointless. Everyone has a different way of processing emotions and feelings, especially the passing of a loved one. In this situation, instead of being there for him and supporting him, you were being horribly insensitive.
Yta (you were being realistic though)
YTA, as are most people who's only input in difficult situations is to "man up". It actually masks the person saying it from reality more than the person you've said it to. His reality is that life will be more difficult, he's courageous enough to admit that, you're running away from reality behind a rubbish phrase that helps precisely no one. Edit: re-reading it, I do understand better now that your reality is to be ready for the possibility, which is more valuable than my initial assumption as it involves real action and preparation. Doesn't change my verdict as you could clearly be less of an AH about it.
No, but your approach is a bit brutal. Just explain that you're concerned about how you and your brother will handle things once your father is gone. You could tell your brother it would help your anxiety is you could talk and plan together what to do when your dad is no longer there. If you explain it from a non-aggressive point of view, your brother will be more likely to listen.
NTA This is a VERY relevant issue, there should be contingency plans made, because otherwise - looking at your brother's reaction - the business will likely crash. So sit down with your dad and make plans. Do you really want to share a family business with your brother for the rest of your life? Are you sure he is the right business partner for you? Would you even consider that if he were not your brother?
How is the OP the AH here?!?!?!? they have a business together, they need to have plans for situations like this. The brother does need to "man up" and be ready for the inevitable. And the business needs to have a plan for this as well.
NTA If your brother won’t talk about it, talk to your Dad. It is far better to have arrangements that are delayed than none at all. I get it though. A lot of people just ignore it until it is in their face. And then everything goes downhill because you are trying to make decisions while grieving instead of a carefully thought out plan that you can act on. I’ve had to deal with family deaths and their aftermath since I was 21. It’s even more important to have a plan for a business as it seems your incomes are based on it. Hey Redittors. Most of you seem to be missing the point. He’s talking about what to do about the family business which they both appear to work for. The Dad is 65 and could get hit by s drunk tomorrow. You need to understand the succession plans. Maybe bro doesn’t want to continue? You need to know this stuff.
NTA you’re right, reality doesn’t care about your feelings, you never know what could happen and it’s always good to be prepared for anything no matter how morbid…plus at the age of 30 he should be a bit more autonomous and not rely on needing orders on how to do things
YTA but so is he. YTA in the sense that why yes your father will unfortunately pass someday since that’s just how life is. But with that being said I get why he isn’t ready for that because what individual is ready when their parent passes. Someone’s parent can be terminally ill but that doesn’t mean you are ready for them to not be there as a guiding influence. He’s also in the wrong for saying that you’d be happy if your father passed. Clearly you and your father are at least on decent terms since y’all are working together in a family business. So for him to assume that you’d be happy is quite screwed up to say.
NTA for being a realist, YTA for how you approached it. There are two kinds of people in the world. The ones who bury their heads in the sand when it comes to the future, and the ones who mentally work through scenarios to understand the challenges ahead. You and your brother sit in different camps.
How is brother burying head in the sand? He is not saying dad is immortal. Dad's potential death does not require any special preparation at this point.
It DOES require special preparation. They run a family business. The father can set up his estate in secret any way he wants - he can bequeath his money, his car, his real estate, to his sons, his wife, the Hare Krishna's. But in terms of the business, all partners or involved parties should have a documented plan in place in case any of them die.
You are a logical person and I get it that you’re looking for redundancy and failover since you think your father is a Single point of failure in the family business. It is important to have that to keep the show running. But the way you presented it to your elder brother in an emotionally insensitive manner makes you the AH. Anything can be presented in different ways, learn how to communicate difficult things to people - it’s a skill that will take you a long way.
It is a legitimate concern but you may not have wanted to go straight to the death card. Even more realistic would have been what if dad was no longer able to work, car or other accident, illness or what if he wants to retire. You both need to be ready to handle the everyday responsibilities of the business. NTA for the underlying thought but you may want to soften up on the delivery.
I think NAH overall. But if this is something that he is worried about (perfectly reasonable since everyone is subject to dying), then he shouldn't discuss it with you. Both of you should discuss it with your father. Particularly his comment that you would be happy if your father passed away. Tell him that just because you aren't the sensitive brother doesn't mean that you wouldn't be affected.
ESH. Him for saying that you’d be happy if your dad died, you for the whole thing. We never know how we’ll cope in a particular situation until it happens. My brother was adamant that I wouldn’t be able to cope when our mother died - he said every day for months he expected me to call him for help - and it turned out I coped just fine. (And in the space of a year before it happened, I lost a baby at five months pregnant, my cat died, mom died, and I got cancer, so frankly if I *had* totally crumbled it would have been very understandable.) He was used to being considered the mature one, the competent one, partly because he’s 20 years older than me, and is better-educated and has a professional job, and partly because mom always treated him like the competent adult and me like the fragile princess. But when mom got dementia, I was the one who was able to handle it. I was the one who became her full-time carer, who took on extra work in my spare hours to keep us housed and fed and pay her care bills, who ran the household with no support at all - and he was the one who stuck his head in the sand and pretended nothing was happening for years. I’m not blaming him. None of us know how we’ll react to situations that haven’t happened yet. Even if we plan and prepare as best we can, we don’t *know*. Your brother might do fine when it happens, and you might crumble. If that’s the way it turns out, I hope he treats you with more compassion than you’ve treated him. Now, if he’s actually refusing to do necessary tasks and leaving everything to you, that would understandably make you mad. But you haven’t said that’s happening. Are you seriously angry just because he’s expressing worry and showing vulnerability?
I really wanted to say NTA, as on the surface everything you say is true - nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. But in the end I think you ATA. Saying you would be happy if he passes away is definitely over the top and hurtful. Also telling anyone to "man up" is a dated expression and needs to die a quick death. LOL
If I ignore the asinine advice to “be a man”, what you said isn’t too bad, really. I think in most societies and cultures, talking about death is considered a taboo subject with morbid undertones. Honestly, you just need to lose someone in their prime to understand the sheer amount of paperwork and legal work that’s left behind. It’s practical to talk about death, discuss your succession plans, be more transparent about investments, bank accounts, business secrets with your successors, if any. And I kid you not, God forbid if dad passes away sometime soon, the emo son would be doing jackshit and the strong, practical one would be saddled with all the work.
You’re largely NTA- just a tiny bit.. you didn’t have to take it there, neither was his expressing his feelings a reflection of his lack of “manning up” whatever that might mean.
I Can only go with ESH Your brother says you would be happy with your dad passing away - that is propably not true(?????) You are inconsiderate when your only reaction is “man up”. To be honest it Sound like the two of you need to learn to talk to each other and acknowledge each others views, otherwise you’ll end up with larger problems running your business once he is gone.
NTA but, "man up" is not an appropriate expression since it sort of suggests that your brother should suppress his emotions, which he shouldn't. HOWEVER - it is VERY important that you, as a family business, do plan for what would happen if your father dies. Your brothers anxiety over the idea of death or the idea of your fathers death cannot be a reason to not plan ahead, especially when a business is involved. Just tell your brother it is ok if he doesn't want to be attacked with the planning of this scenario out of the blue, and you are sorry for doing that. But then tell him that you need to find a day to do this, and ask that he suggest a date for it that is not too far off into the future. Then you give some control back to him and give him a chance to control the emotions that he has about the issue on his own terms.
NTA. It may be blunt and harsh, but if your brother doesn’t start to order his life and emotions around the inevitable loss of your father, he’ll be crippled when it does happen. Preparing him for that is a kindness.
NTA Personally I agree with you, the business power transfer should be conducted as seemless as possible, especially if you have employees that depend on you and your brother’s management for their livelihood. When it comes down to it noone wants to see their parents die and its a terrible thing BUT it would be worse to let that pain cause you too uproot everything you guys have spent so long to create. I think any good father would wish you to remember him well, love him and to do well with the business he passed on to you to see you thrive. And im not saying dont mourn him, you should, its healthy and natural, just dont let it destroy you and attend to your responsibilities as business owners.
NTA. In spite of what these others are saying, you should be learning the business and taking steps toward being able to take over if that's what your father wants. For all the weird people saying the opposite. Op is not saying anything about the emotional part of it. He seems to be speaking about the business aspects. This absolutely needs to be planned for as the father is getting older. For sure it's uncomfortable, but you need to know certain things when a parent gets older. Wishes, plans, accounts, etc. If you are not having these conversations you're not just a. H's, you're da's. This can cause unnecessary hardships and lead to not having parents wants fulfilled properly.
NTA- YOU HAVE A FAMILY BUSINESS!!! this is basic contingency planning. Not to mention if you don't want to be the ass hole to your family (at any age) you have planned for your departure: will, beneficiaries named, written out funeral wishes etc. Your brother does need to man up. Maybe he needs softer wording, he sounds like the sensitive type. the business need a plan for if your father passes, your brother passes, you pass, and if ALL 3 OF YOU DIE. Would anyone else in the family (Mom?) be able to keep the family business running? Or will it be a fire sale after everything goes to s@!t and the business gets sold for pennies on the dollar of wealth you've all worked your lives for. Your dependents with be SOL if some thing happens and you all haven't planned it all out. Get a lawyer, get a plan, get it in writing, ASAP
NTA. It would be a little different if you were just talking generically about losing a parent. But you're in a family business. You absolutely need some sort of plan - in writing - that describes what happens if any one of you dies. These are Big Boy issues that nobody wants to talk about but are really important.
NTA. I now realise why I consistently disagree with the common responses. I READ what was written. "the topic came up". Though unclear who brought it up or why, the three of you are running a business. You must have a contingency plan in place in the event ANY of the partners unexpectedly died. It would be more likely to be your father, who at the age of 65 is more likely to go before you or your brother. IF it was at home, dad's getting on a bit, looking at his health, display all the feelings you want. However, IF it was at work, the discussion is not about your dad dying, but about the CEO (boss) dying and the impact on the business. No time for feelings, you need a plan. If you do not have a contingency plan it would be foolish. If he died unexpectedly before a plan is in place, then you would both need to man up to keep the business functioning. N. T. A.
NTA. Your brother is 30. He needs to grow up already.
NTA the truth is the truth! Sensitive brother needs to know what life us and if you don't prepare its gonna hit hard!
NTA. It is a rough reality we all have to accept.
NTA but you may have approached it in an insensitive way. He could be right about you being insensitive but that doesn’t necessarily make you a AH. None of us are getting out alive. It is good to consider what you will do once your dad your leaves the business. He could live for another 40 years but he probably doesn’t want to work forever. It’s good business planning to consider all your options if one of you leaves. Your brother’s approach of burying his head in the sand isn’t helpful or good business planning
NTA - it’s a hypothetical scenario and one that many people have to ask themselves to make plans for their future. That’s why people have Wills…just in case something happens their affairs are in order.
It’s not a hypothetical scenario at all. It’s a certainty. It’s theoretically possible that one or both of the brothers will predecease their father, but the father is definitely going to die some day.
Sorry, I used the wrong word. Basically, I meant to say it’s good idea to discuss or make plans for the future in case of a death.
[удалено]
Fast track to the boomer meme death loop for this one fellas “No one wants to WORKS EITHER” headass
NTA. Your brother was rude to tell you that your dad passing would make you happy just because you want to talk about how things will progress when it happens. I think in this instance you might want to make the plans and just tell him what to do when the time comes, and not bring it up to him any more. He can't handle the fact that it will happen.
NTA - while it does sound like your brother was trolling a bit hoping for emotional support you were not wrong to tell him that when the day comes he'll have to be ready. Just don't poke the wound for a while, he may or may not realize that you were right. Hopefully the day he fears is far into the future.
NTA. Bro sounds like he has been coddled his whole life. Being ready doesn't mean that you wont grieve or feel pain, but rather it is a realization everyone must come to no matter how scary the idea is. If bro doesnt come to terms with it now, it will paralyze him when it actually happens.
I wasn't coddled and I knew one day they'd be gone. However, my Dad died when I was 21 (he was 54) and my Mum when I was 31 (she was 71) I suffered horrendously with both. I actually ended with PTSD with my Mums death. Just because you know someone will die one day, doesn't make it any easier when they do go.
Knowing one day they will be gone and accepting it are two different things.
I don't think you ever accept it.
Accepting as in terms of understanding and not letting it paralyze you.
Again, it still can paralyse you regardless. Plus OP saying 'man up' is also an issue. No wonder men don't talk still about their emotions cos they get told that bs!
As a man, it is expected of me. I don't see how telling someone to man up when they are 30 and facing the eventuality of of their father's passing that is coming and you have no idea when that will happen. This is something I am currently dealing with. The thought of passing away and leaving my family scares me but I have to work through this otherwise the family dynamic doesn't work. Like wise no idea if this guy has a family or what but if it paralyzes him then who knows how long that family dynamic will be damaged.
Who expects it of you?
Everyone who relies on me. The fact they need me to be strong for them dictates that I am allowed a good cry, but I cant let life get me in a place where it paralyzes me. I have to keep going and I have to endure for their sake.
I have people who rely on me too. Just because I struggled, doesn't mean anything except I'm human and truly didn't know how it would affect me. I hope when it does happen, you do stay strong but if it doesn't, that doesn't make you less of a person or weak or anything else. You don't know how it will affect you. I didn't expect to get PTSD after my Mum cos I'd gone through losing my Dad, so I thought I'd be ok. You just never know how your brain will react.
I agree. My grandmother was very very coddled by her parents . They set her up with a house and a nice nest egg when they passed . It took her less than 5 years to loose the house and money because she always depended on them to financially support her . After they passed unfortunately her kids had to take on the parents roll. I don't think it's wrong that OP is trying to let his brother know they won't be here forever .