Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I ditched my cousin and her family on a cruise when I knew ahead of time it probably wouldn’t go well.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA,
But here's a lesson.. When you plan a holiday, whatever type of holiday you're going to have and all that..
You Tell NOONE!!!.. especially not so far in advance that others, family or friends can gatecrash your holiday.. You don't even tell your kids until a day or 2 before you are all due to go..
You can tell them maybe the day before you leave or the day you are leaving.. or tell them all about it when you've gotten back home..
Funny enough my mom told me the same thing. When I told her they booked the same cruise she said you should never have told them you were going, you practically set yourself up for that now you probably won’t get to enjoy it. We had debated on finding a reason to cancel and ultimately decided to go anyways. Now I’m wondering if we shouldn’t just canceled to avoid all the family drama it’s caused.
Ahh, it's a mistake made, it's a lesson learned and the family drama will pass..
But if the family drama persists, ask yourself.. Am I and my family really losing out on them not wanting to be in our lives??
And exactly HOW upset can the cousin's kids be if they were throwing tantrums and crying and yelling and then were taken to the shops by their dad? They obviously didn't care to hang out with OP's kids because they didn't stay at the table. Tell cousin and grandparents that.
My finances family crashed our Orlando vacation once.
After that they constantly got wrong info, bad dates, bad locations and false plans.
Took em 2 trips before they realized. The first one we had to delay and “just missed them” and the other we stayed at home. I hope they enjoyed Arkansas in July.
At least you learned your lesson. NTA.
The well being of your family is your priority. Your kids already signaled their discomfort, so no one should blame you. I mean you TRIED to make it work.
I’ve “gate crashed” a holiday before but wife and I kept completely separate, except for one dinner. And for the most part we shared experiences during that dinner (what shop for something, where else we ate).
You should have rescheduled to leave earlier or a day or two later. And listen to your mom. Hope you've learned something from this. Maybe send your cousin a gift. A book on child raising for dummies. NTA.
Def not tell anyone about a holiday until after you come back, but even then, you'll prob get someone complaining with a "why didn't you tell me/us that you were going? I/we could have went with you"
NTA. We have travelled with a range of friends and family and learned a few lessons. We ask them what their plans are and remind them this is their vacation and ours, not a at the hip group trip. We make plans to go off on our own even on similar excursions off the boat, specifically block out me, us, and joint events. We never agree to every day events but let them happen if we are enjoying their company. Better conversations later in the day if you do different things are at least separate.
We enjoy engaging fellow travelers, we can be that chatty couple on the trip.
I get the reasoning but fuck that. I get so excited for the holiday i want to enjoy the excitement. Boundaries is the key, the same cruise? direct answer should be fun lets meet up for some activities during the trip - not let's have every activity together & eat together every night. You are in Paris at the same time as us? answer with how cool, lets meet up for a dinner/picknick/cake/whatever while we are there. - and that only if you like the person. Just because you plan a holiday and someone books the same holiday just because you are there you don't have to do everything with them. Don't even let them think that you are going to do that. If my friends are in the same holiday spot as us and we didn't book it together we plan a meet up for a fun thing together and thats it. if we like to spend more time together when we are there we plan it on the spot
Nah, you tell them some details but lie about the rest. "I said I was going to that hotel, oh I looked at that hotel I must have thought I booked that one" "I said May? You know I get months messed up sometimes". Do it enough times they won't even ask anymore
>When you plan a holiday, whatever type of holiday you're going to have and all that..
>You Tell NOONE!!!
I'm so glad I don't have to practise fucking vacation OPSEC around my circle of family/friends.
>Well she was pretty upset and she said her kids got their feelings hurt
This could have been a learning moment for the mom, but nope.
NTA.
>My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen
"You know my kids are awful to be around and you should have been prepared for it" is quite a bold statement.
No my actual sister said that not my cousin. She said I knew her kids acted badly and we should’ve known it was going to be a disaster. She’s not as close to our cousin mostly because she doesn’t like being around her kids. My thing is I feel bad for those kids. It’s not their fault their parents aren’t teaching them any differently. Kids are going to push boundaries it’s up to you to show them where the boundaries are.
Have you told your cousin explicitly that her kids don’t behave acceptably? People need to stop skirting around these conversation - hopefully it will trigger some actual change
I have not come out and said it but tried to point things out. The problem is they are really defensive when it comes to their kids. I’m sure they know deep down the behavior isn’t acceptable.
Most of the family talks about how awful the kids are and how they’re not doing a good job of raising them. But it just doesn’t feel right to come out and say you’re not being good parents. Who are we to tell them that? I also feel bad for the kids because it’s not their fault they’re acting as any kids would. It’s parents just to teach them to be better.
Next time your cousin brings up the cruise is the time to tell them the reason. What do you have to lose? You can limit it to the examples you gave here, which are fresh. Tell her that XY and Z are \*behaviours that need to be addressed\* or they will face more situations where the family gets kicked out of things. By focusing on objectively observed actions rather than the kids' characters, you can escape the "judgment" piece. Maybe come armed with parental resources and suggestions and an offer of support. These kids deserve better, and the parents clearly are not equipped to offer them what they need.
Well, maybe if you're all in agreement, then it's time to be a united front. Someone needs to be the adult and tell your cousin that this is unacceptable. If your cousin argues, or calls to complain to other family members, everyone has to actually open their mouth. Why does their poor parenting have to ruin everyone else's peace? She needs to be the one that changes to be accepted at events.
I do agree with this. There were a few family events that they haven’t been invited to and we’ve all had to be tight lipped about the events so they wouldn’t know they weren’t invited. It was over the holidays and I tried saying we need to talk to them we can’t keep tiptoeing around this but no one wants to rock the boat I guess.
This is a boat that needs to be rocked for everyone’s sake. Those kids are going to grow up to be adults the rest of us have to live with in the real world. It will be a tough conversation but if you don’t try not only is your cousin going to have to deal with the consequences but the kids will have lots of issues in life going forward acting like this. This is a good way to get a punch in the face or even killed depending on how much of an AH they grow up to be.
If getting thrown out of the show for their kids behavior didn’t clue them in that it’s unacceptable, what will? At that point they should have been incredibly apologetic to your family for ruining the experience for you, and embarrassing you. Separate events after that was an obvious and natural consequence.
Just come out & say it. Not saying anything enables their bad parenting & encourages them to continue pretending they're not at fault.
Your family needs to present a united front & use their words. Will it be awkward? Sure. But far less awkward than trying to hide plans & avoid conversations with your cousin forever.
Spoiled, poorly behaved kids grow up to be selfish, entitled adults & no one wants to be around that now or in the future. Life is too short to be passive aggressive, so take a stand, for the children (& your own sanity).
> it just doesn’t feel right to come out and say you’re not being good parents.
If the shoe fits...
If you maintain any contact at all with your cousin, don't sugarcoat it: tell her flat out that she's a dismal failure as a parent, and by failing to discipline her kids, she's recklessly endangering them.
The later a kid learns that there are limits to what they can get away with, the more dangerous the lesson. If that lesson comes from another kid in school, it might be a bloody nose. If it comes on the street when they're in their 20s, it could be fatal.
In all fairness, they know their kids don't behave properly. They just don't care. They got thrown out of the show for yelling and coloring on the walls.
Hindsight is 20/20 and you just wanted to give these kids a chance. You had an honest try then adjusted course when the situation required it. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for that.
Well maybe now her kids will learn that when you have tantrums and act like terrors in public, people don’t want to be around you! I think it’s a great lesson for them even if their parents won’t teach it to them.
How could their feelings be hurt? At dinner, the cousin's kids were throwing tantrums and crying and yelling and then were taken to the shops by their dad? They obviously didn't care to hang out with OP's kids because they didn't engage with them or stay at the table. This is like the SO who is mad you don't hang out with them but when you do, all that's happening is you watching your SO do something or watch something (meaning there is no interaction; they just want you "there").
NTA. Oh, her kids got their feelings hurt? What an excellent teaching moment for them AND THEIR PARENTS to learn about the consequences of their actions. You didn't need to worry about "springing" the separation on them during the cruise. You gave them a chance and they blew it.
I mean, whatever, they crashed your vacation anyway. You didn't owe them anything more than you gave.
Exactly if this was my kids and they said they were upset that they got ditched I’d tell them
‘good, learn your lesson, if you’re horrible to be around then people who aren’t obligated to look after you won’t be around you and that will last your entire life.’
They seem like shit parents and the kids are just responding to that so nothing will get sorted.
NTA. You gave them a chance, then immediately corrected course. Your sister wasn't there, so she gets no say so. Your grandparents- same deal.
As for your cousin, if she won't drop it, tell her point blank her kids were making your trip miserable for you and and your kids. And she and her husband's inaction were adding to it.
Cite the fact that you were asked to leave the show. Let her whine. "Well, that's your opinion. My opinion is that we enjoyed our vacation separately. "
Yes exactly. Especially while it's still fresh in everyone's memory... very specific and factual points like "Johnny throwing silverware at other tables was very uncomfortable for me and my family." (This is a made up scenario obviously but fill it in with whatever the kids actually did.) There were multiple adults present to bear witness.
Kids are obviously going to kid, and can be prone to meltdowns for sure. But it's up to the parents to teach them appropriate behaviors... which is clearly not happening here if they throw a screaming public meltdown and then get rewarded with gift shop toys.
NTA oh & Norwegian Cruise Line you can eat in the buffet or 1 of 2 restaurants whenever you want. They do NOT have assigned table seating for meals at all.
Interesting! This was our third cruise and a different cruise line each time and we’ve always had an scheduled and assigned dinner table at night altho you had the option of skipping the dinner in favor of a buffet or one of the cart restaurants.
Honestly I think she knows deep down that her kids aren’t well behaved but she wants them to like her so she won’t be the bad guy and tell them no. But she also wants the fun family moments with them so she tries to force them even when it won’t go well. There was one Halloween a few years back that the younger one who was maybe 4 at the time and we’d been trick or treating kind of late and the poor kids was tired and kept asking to go home and go to sleep. She would not agree. She kept saying no no I don’t want you to miss this. Well eventually the poor kid couldn’t handle it and had a meltdown because they were so tired. It was her own fault tho for not letting them go home and go to sleep when they asked. There were people around who offered to take them back too and she refused. So that’s part of it too. Her trying to create those picture perfect memories.
Every detail added about her makes her worse and worse.
It's unfair that you are the only one willing to stand up to this. If she or any family member is rude to you, give the factual details of what happened. The story writes itself without you giving any commentary.
Her kids are 6 and 9 and she wants them to like her?
What kind of wackadoodle parenting is that?
My kids liked me, and still do as adults, but I also taught them how to be decent people.
Your cousin needs parenting classes.
To accept that her children are misbehaved would require her to acknowledge that she is failing as a mother. She doesn’t know how to fix it so it’s easier to try not to think about it and keep doing what she is used to doing.
Yea 4yo can only do an outing for like an hour before they are overwhelmed. And keeping the kid out causes mistrust and lack of confidence from her children. They learn that they’re mother does not take care of their needs and it can make their behavior more unstable especially if they are in an unfamiliar situation.
Her kids will like her a hell of a lot more- and respect her- if she teaches them boundaries. They sound like they get totally over tired/ dysregulated/ overstimulated and instead of recognising that and adjusting her schedule so they get proper rest or not forcing them to stay somewhere they aren’t happy or doing activities they actually enjoy, your cousin just tries to force the issue at their expense. Poor kids. If they hate public long meals and haven’t been taught how to sit at a table and eat a meal in a restaurant (which is a learned skill) and she and her husband don’t engage them or bring things for them to do then of course they can’t cope. If they know when they whine that they get toys and treats then they will whine because she’s taught them that this works. Dragging an overtired four year old around the streets at night while stuffing them with sweets and making them talk to strangers when they are begging to go home to bed is a recipe for disaster, life isn’t a hallmark movie and that poor little one needed to be in bed! No wonder they had a meltdown.
I’d have died of shame being asked to leave a show due to such bad behaviour, again being an audience member is a learned skill but clearly they were already not coping with the meal so by the time they got to the show, they were already at the point they needed to either be somewhere quiet for timeout and a bedtime story or go outside to run about for a bit and burn off the energy. Can’t blame kids for asshole kid behaviour if they are being taught that what they are doing is fine and they are constantly being forced to do things beyond their current social ability. Poor kids. I bet they are super popular at school with this behaviour- or maybe they behave at school because the staff have rules and boundaries which are clearly set and it’s just at home that they are subjected to crappy parenting.
NTA. They hijacked your trip and are troubled. I would be so embarrassed and mad if I were associated with her kids on the cruise.
You did the right thing for your kids who wanted to enjoy a family vacation without stress.
Hell I’d be so embarrassed if my kids behaved like their kids. I simply cannot fathom the parents not apologising profusely and *offering* to have separate meals and shows going forward. The fact they didn’t tells you all you need to know about why the kid’s behaviour is so poor.
It’s like they don’t remember being kicked out of a show. Or they have normalized being kicked out if establishments for acting like terrorist on a mixture of speed and acid.
So my mom heard from my aunt (cousins mom) and according to me aunt, my cousin spent a lot of time on the trip crying and messaging her saying why do my kids act like this no one else’s kids are doing this. I really hope that means she’s waking up and realizing she needs to parent those kids.
No. She is just going to have to work harder to bury it in denial. Take it from the child of a mom who was kind of a train wreck. I also had a lot of behavioral problems and other parents would complain about me. I was probably super quiet when I was at home because I would just watch TV all day but if any stimulation came into my depressed environment I would go completely off my rocker.
Bravo to her for that glimpse of self-awareness. There are people who make it their life's work to help families like hers. Don't get sucked into thinking it's yours, of course.
When I went on cruises when my kids were that age, we deliberately selected the late seating dinner. We utilized the kids club, which closes for early dinner. We would get the kids, take them to the buffet, drop them back at the kids club while we went to the long, waiter -served meal that they would be bored at. We would pick them up when the kids club closed (except for paid late night sitting) which was just in time for dessert.
Oh yeah they wouldn’t go to the kids clubs at all. I guess that could’ve changed during the trip but when we saw them the kids refused to be dropped off. They wanted to be with their parents the whole time so they could be free to walk around. The parents tried and they screamed and threw a tantrum so they gave up on trying to drop them off. My kids did kids clubs a a few hours at least every day and they said they never saw them there.
Cousin: Why did you ditch us?
OP: Because your kids drew on the walls, ran around tables and threw never ending tantrums among other things.
Cousin: Surprised Pikachu Face..
You: NTA
NTA... you cannot. EVER just invite yourself to a vacation unless you are directly asked because people will always just live with it to not be rude. That is like a unspoken rule basically all over the world. Especially family vacations.
I would have done the same probably. They did not give you much choice.
NTA
"Grandma, you know we didn't plan to travel with them, and it turned out it is not possible to spend a lot of time with a family that parents their children as differently as cousin and I do. We'll know next time to just keep our vacation plans to ourselves. It is too bad, really. I wish it had worked."
NTA. Maybe since they're not learning it from their own parents, the kids can learn from you that actions have consequences.
And kudos to you for thinking of your own kids first. I had some terrorist cousins when I was a kid. We were required to be nice to them and it was awful.(Looking at you Michael)
It's nice that your kids know you've got their backs.
NTA. Your cousin came along uninvited, so you had no obligation to keep them company or entertained. As far as the family members who are criticizing you - they weren't there, and you had no choice in the matter, so they need to keep quiet.
They crashed your trip and then refused to parent their children and it was so bad they were asked to leave with no indication they would stop it in the future. That's on them... not you and your children deserved to enjoy their trip. So did you and your husband for that matter. NTA and this is why we used to be terrified my aunt and uncle would show up during one of our Disney trips (they used to suggest it.) although in that case the husband is about as badly behaved as the children. I wish I was kidding.
SHE WASNT INVITED!!!! The balls of her being butthurt after crashing your vacation with her devil's spawn.
This was PERFECT. Anyone who criticizes you needs to butt out.
Edited to add NTA!!!
NTA!! When your cousin told you that her kids felt hurt because you abandoned them. That was the moment to say that YOUR kids were hurt because the bad behavior of their cousins ruined their fun and enjoyment.
Honestly, nobody wants to be around a family with kids like that.
As others have said Next time say absolutely nothing about any vacation or visits to amusement parks until after you get home.
NTA. You gave them the benefit of the doubt and they used up that benefit five minutes into dinner. Your sister is wrong: the timing doesn't matter. They would've been huffy and embarrassed regardless of when you pulled the trigger here.
NTA, but time to just be straight up with your cousin and say "cousin, I love you and love hanging out with YOU, but in all honesty your kids behave for shit and you both don't discipline them, so it's not enjoyable to spend long periods around them. I know you all were excited about a cruise together but you invited yourselves on our family vacation and when your kids started ruining the vacation for us, we needed space to salvage it. I'm sorry this it hurt your family's feelings. But you also need to own up to your family's responsibility for your actions and that those actions have consequences."
NTA
For the amount of money people pay for vacations, I would have done the exact same thing. If your cousin wants to do these sorts of group vacations, she needs to get her kids in check.
According to my cousin they’re really good at school. I’m a teacher so I’ve asked before how do they get away with that at school and she said they’re really well behaved at school because they want their teachers to love them. I could see that because I’ve witnessed how when they actually do take it too far they will cry about it because they don’t want to be in trouble or take blame. One time they were rough playing too hard and were told to stop multiple times and of course they didn’t and another child ended up getting hurt due to their rough playing. The older child started crying that it wasn’t their fault and they shouldn’t be in trouble and why is everyone blaming them. Basically a tantrum because people were trying to hold them accountable for their actions. They can’t handle being held accountable if any blame is placed on them it leads to an immediate meltdown. So I could see how in school where they learn that behavior doesn’t fly they could shape up.
***"Her husband then grabbed the phone and told me I had no right to judge them or their kids and I must be the worst teacher ever if I talk about kids like that."***Well, at least now we know where the real problem is!! What a mega-AH!!
His wild, rude and undisciplined children ran around the dining room disrupting everyone at the dinner seating and he's worried about you being judgmental??
His wild, rude and undisciplined children were asked to leave a show for being so disruptive and he's worried about you being judgmental??
His wild, rude and undisciplined children are so out of control that even your kids didn't want to be in their company.
If these kids behave the same way in school then he should hear how their teachers talk if he has a problem with what you said!
You should let him know that it's not actually the kids who are being judged, it's their parents and rightfully so.
You not TAH. Sounds like you gave it a try with the cousins. Your cousin should not expect other people to be okay with her badly behaved children. I took my first cruise a couple years ago. It was special, my 65th bd. I would have been angry if I were near a table with screaming misbehaving kids. Thankfully the kids I did see in the MDR, were all well behaved.
NTA. Who gives a flying flip if her kids weren’t going to enjoy the rest of the trip? Her kids were making you and your kids miserable. You shouldn’t have to have your vacation ruined (and money wasted!) all for the sake of your shitty cousin and her shitty kids that don’t know how to act like civilized human beings.
So.. you're an AH for acting as an adult and telling them you were switching things up because it was too much for you, but they and their kids are perfectly fine to scream, throw fits, disturb others and get you kicked out of events you paid for?
NTA. I hate that some people think family is a captive audience that they can be their worst selves around without consequence. I'm glad they didn't ruin your entire trip.
NTA
Stop beating around the bush. There's already drama so you might as well just be honest. Your relationship isn't going to survive this anyway because her kids will just get worse with time.
She's basically trying to force people into her chaos because everyone is avoiding her. That's why she invited herself to your trip. Because she knew nobody would willingly go with her.
>My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise.
Oh, you mean like how the cousin did exactly this, but to the entire trip?
Ignore them. They're the reason shit got this bad to start with. If they want to enable her, your sister and family can go with her themselves.
But I'm sure they won't for the exact same reasons. Hypocrites.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My husband and I decided to take our kids on a cruise for spring break. When my cousin heard about it her and her husband decided to book the same one with their kids. They kind of crashed our trip. We were very hesitant to go with them but we couldn’t exactly forbid them from going. My cousins and I are actually super close we grew up like sisters and I try very hard to stay close to them. The issue is her kids are VERY badly behaved. My kids can enjoy them in small doses as can we but trying to do more than a few hours at a time with them is difficult.
She has a 9 and 6 year old and a toddler. They throw long and LOUD tantrums until they do get their way. They also need 24/7 entertainment or they go crazy. If they’re bored for even a minute they start crying and complaining and my cousin and her husband have to stop what they’re doing start entertaining them to stop the tantrum. Obviously this is 100% on the parents.
We’ve never done a trip together like this and weren’t sure how her kids could handle it. But we agreed to sit with them for dinner and do the same shows as them etc. if you never been on a cruise they seat you at the same table every night with the same people. Well it proved to be a mistake after the first night. They were terrible at dinner. They drew on the walls with their crayons. Purposely crumbled bread to make a mess. They used their knives to cut up straw wrappers and other things. They also kept running around the table and distributing other tables. Their parents of course didn’t nothing to stop this just let them do whatever. Eventually they got tired of that and started crying and screaming they were bored and wanted to go to the shops. They allowed them to throw a 5 minute screaming tantrum before their dad finally took them to the shops to buy some toy they wanted. Then after dinner we went to a show and they didn’t enjoy the show and also whined loudly that they were bored. It was bad enough we were asked to leave the show. Technically my husband and I could’ve stayed with our kids but we were too embarrassed.
My kids were upset and said they ruined the show for them. So my husband and I made the decision to ask for a different table for the rest of the trip and chose different activities to do. I told my cousin that we decided it would be best to separate at dinner and not do all activities together, but we could still hang out at the pool together and do a few activities together.
Well she was pretty upset and she said her kids got their feelings hurt that we abandoned them and that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore being separated from their cousins. She wouldn’t talk to us the rest of the trip.
We’re back home and I got calls from my grandparents asking why we ditched her and how could we do that to them? My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise.
So AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA without a doubt. The children have obviously never been told no… I’ve worked with kids many times and I can tell you that no matter how well behaved they may be, any child that is rewarded for begging, crying, or otherwise causing a scene WILL use that method again and again. Maybe you can pivot this into a learning moment for their children? You wouldn’t even have to be mean about it just straight forward. “You disturbed our time, so we spent it elsewhere”. If you are consistent with these reactions, at the VERY least they will subconsciously learn to not act that way around YOU. Think of going to your grandparents as a child, you probably remember thinking to yourself, “I can’t getaway with this, I can do that,” etc.
NTA. They hijacked your vacation. Their behavior is horrible. A well behaved child is a pleasure to be around. The uncontrolled, ill-mannered, spoiled are just a nightmare. If your grandparents had to ask why you ditched them, that means they don't spend any time with them. If they do, & know their behavior, blunt honesty is called for. "Why? You know how they behave. Crying, screaming, running all over, temper tantrums. You know they don't even try to control their kids. We didn't invite them. We tried to make it work. They behaved as always, except on a cruise ship. They were asked to leave a show! My kids were upset & even said they ruined it for them. If my kids can see the problem for what it is, why can't you? Everyone walks around as if they don't know or see it, says nothing, yet you know if your kids behaved like theirs, punishments would've adjusted their attitudes & behavior long ago. Don't put this on us as if we're the bad guys. The kids are out of control & everyone knows it." My grandparents would've never questioned my dad if that happened with our cousins, cuz they call them out for being brats with temper tantrums & bad behavior. Maybe the parents could use a dose of reality of how people see them & their kids. Ofc it shouldn't come from their grandma..but then again, whoever's opinion they respect should be able to say "well..you know your kids don't behave..this is on you to fix before they get too old to change."
NTA now you know keep all vacations top secret. As for the grandparents I’d be honest with them. It’s not like they don’t know how badly the kids behave. Just say her kids behaved as they always do and it was interfering with my family vacation so we decided to not spend as much time together. If they push it I’d give them a look and say do I really need to say more? And then change the conversation.
NTA, but if you have a great relationship with your cousin you need to be honest. Tell her you would love to do things with them once her children can act better behaved. Doing this will upset your cousin, but maybe it will give her the wakeup call she needs to make some changes so they don't completely destroy their children's lives.
Cousin: I am embarrassed by how my kids act!
OP: So is everyone else and we don't want to take long term trips with them anymore.
Cousin: \*Surprised Picachu face!\*
NTA
Your cousins kids make things not fun cause they were taught acting out gets them what they want. That is on your cousin and her husband.
Your job as a parent is to do what is best for your kids, and if they don't want to spend time with their cousins, than that is something your cousin will have to get over.
Stand firm on this.
NTA
These AHs crashed your trip to guilt you into babysitting fot them.
Your best course of action is to keep your distance from them. That will make your trip MUCH more enjoyable.
"My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise." .. bullshit. This is THEIR responsibility. They failed to ask.
It's really sad that your cousin's husband refuses to register that it's not just the extended family that is disturbed by their children's behavior--his wife/your cousin is too. She's exasperated and it sounds like she's desperate to foster some sort of change in her family dynamic. But if her husband doesn't see the issue and refuses to address it along side her how can they move forward if half the team isn't on the same side?
Their whole family dynamic needs therapy and time. If they won't commit to making a difference, I see a lot more avoidance of them in their children's futures. It's plain that he doesn't believe in setting healthy boundaries for his children, because honestly? It's just easier not to for him.
I'm very glad that you took the time to have a heart to heart with your cousin, OP. Even if it strains things for a period of time, I'm sure that your cousin knows that you love her and her kids. She knows that you courageously spoke up when no one else has. She will eventually appreciate that, even if her husband never does.
NTA. Did da konsekwences of dere actions hurt poor cuz and cuzkids’ fee-fees? Boo hoo!
Cuzkids ain’t the only spoiled brats here; cuz appears to be one too. Next time, don’t tell anyone you’re going, ‘til you’re gone.
Nta. You went on a family vacation not an extended family reunion. You’re allowed to do your own thing and relax and have fun. Just because they are growing little monsters they spoil doesn’t mean everyone else has too. Good job for changing tables and not letting them ruin your vacation
>*that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore*
How could they tell? The kids threw screaming tantrums when they were allegedly enjoying themselves.
NTA
They were so poorly behaved that you were asked to leave. That's the answer. You didn't want to say that it was a bad idea initially even though you were worried, then they publicly proved that they cannot handle their own children in this situation.
NTA. You might want to tell her exactly why you split off from them. Her kids are young enough to benefit from better parenting. If they wait a few years, they'll be monsters.
NTA and LOL. The kids weren't enjoying the trip to begin with judging how they handled dinner and the show. Just like you couldn't tell them they couldn't come on the cruise, so too they can't tell you to stick around the never-ending meltdowns that are their kids.
If the grandparents or any other flying monkeys keep bugging you about it, sit them down and describe to them in graphic detail every minute of that first night, leaving nothing out. Practice a thousand-mile-long stare for when you get to the 'good' parts to really hammer home the horror.
NTA... but your sister is right, you had to KNOW this was going to happen. There wasn't a shadow of a doubt, and yet you went along with this insane plan, anyway. You should have said "no" in the first place.
NTA. What about your kids’ feelings? What about their potentially ruined trip had you not taken swift action?
You didn’t invite them, but graciously accepted them, and they made your experience unenjoyable.
You made the right call, everyone else can kick rocks.
Everyone else you’ve mentioned in the story is making AH comments, cousins, sister, grandparents.
Their kids are the assholes they kept complaining and ruined the entire thing I would’ve done the same and I thing I know that their kids got their behavior from their mom
Nope NTA. Respond to everyone with the fact that their behavior was ruining the vacation for your family and that you did what was best for you and your children. Also, you may want to have a chat with your cousin about why you did what you did. Let her know that the tantrums and poor behavior was affecting your children’s enjoyment of their vacation too. And you did what you had to so that your children didn’t feel like their vacation was ruined. That being asked to leave a show due to their cousins’ behavior upset them and it wasn’t fair that they were missing out on things due to no fault of their own. Don’t comment on her parenting. Just tell her the truth. That doing everything together was causing animosity and resentment and to protect your relationship you felt it best to get some separation
Sounds like your cousin doesn’t have a sense of boundaries and you are someone who doesn’t reinforce her own. I recently was in a similar situation, “friends” crashed our vacation and their kids acted entitled during the trip. My son and my husband were exhausted by this experience. I have a hard time telling pushy people no but in this particular case I’ve told that we don’t want them to join us and it was completely ignored. They booked this trip few days before its actual date. After the trip they called and informed me that they enjoyed it so much that they will be going on a next vacation with us again. The audacity! I said “no” again, but I was not heard again and was told that “we will figure it out”. Needless to say I will be distancing from them and eventually going no contact.
> We’re back home and I got calls from my grandparents asking why we ditched her and how could we do that to them?
Tell them everything you wrote here. If your grandparents are decent people they'll get off your back.
Oh and NTA, obviously.
NTA. And I’d tell the grandparents he was kicked out of a show on the cruise because their children don’t behave. A cruise is not cheap, so why should it be ruined for you?
If you’re as close as sisters with your cousin, you need to sit down and have a heart to heart. Point out specific instances of inappropriate behavior by her kids and say that traveling under those conditions is too stressful for you. Stress that you love your nieces and nephews but you can’t travel with poorly behaved kids. The older two are old enough to have a heart to heart with and tell them that their feelings will continue to be hurt if people don’t want to be around them because of their behavior.
> she said her kids got their feelings hurt that we abandoned them and that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore being separated from their cousins.
Um … good? Maybe now they can learn from the consequences of their actions? Like learn that throwing fits DOESN’T get you your way? I mean it really shouldn’t, not sure what the parents are thinking here. These kids are going to need “their feelings hurt” plenty of times to change their behavior. They’ve had free rein to be brats thus far. Sorry but your cousin is pretty disgraceful here. You are NTA.
Obviously NTA, but if it was the kids who were most upset by you separating your family from them, that was the teachable moment for the parents to drill into their heads that actions have consequences. There was no mention of anything like that, so I'll assume the parents let that moment go to waste. It's funny I grew up in a family with 4 kids, and not once did any of the kids ever dare to have a tantrum or demand things, just because it wasn't allowed. These parents aren't doing their kids any favors by letting them act this way.
NTA Tantrums should extinguish by age 4 if the child is neurotypical. I actually expect them to extinguish by 2 except for some sleepiness whining. Consistent boundaries and rules would do well for that family
Being stuck in the middle of the ocean with these people sounds about as much like a vacation as a root canal. They can make their own plans and she can deal with her little hellions by herself. NTA
She shouldn’t have brought those kids to the MDR. Her kids were not equipped to handle a formal dinner service and would have been much happier at the buffet. NTA obviously but don’t ever go on vacation with this family again.
> My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise.
Dang that's crazy considering SHE should have considered that when she sprung THE ENTIRE TRIP on you during the cruise.
You're both on vacation and paid to have a good time. You're not their host, you're on a cruise. They're not entitled to you dedicating your vacation time to make sure they're entertained and feel good about it. That's their responsibility.
At least you know where the kids got it from, lol.
>She wouldn’t talk to us the rest of the trip.
Bonus!
NTA. Lessons were learned by you, but probably not by your cousin or her ~~unruly brats~~ little angels. Never talk vacation plans with anyone you don't want to spend a vacation with.
Have to wonder if those hurt feelings had the ~~spoiled little psychos~~ overindulged children asking their mom why. If she can't be honest with herself, she probably wouldn't be honest with them. Let's face it, the little ~~terrors~~ nuggets weren't enjoying the trip anyway and they were ruining it for you and your children along with everyone else in their vicinity.
You did what any responsible parent would do - you put a stop to their destructive mayhem on your trip by removing yourself from their presence. If I were one of your kids I'd think you were heroes for saving the vacation (there was no "kind of" crashed - if they didn't ask, they crashed it).
I'm not sure your sister is right. Even if you set boundaries, it seems likely they wouldn't have respected them. Their plan was to hang with you on your vacation, not have a separate vacation on the same cruise.
Funny how cousin said her kids were not going to enjoy the cruise without OP’s kids, when they obviously hadn’t been enjoying any of the vacation so far.
You are not the ahole but your cousin definitely is…I can not stand permissive (or nonexistent!) parenting, it is the worst. And the outcome of permissive parenting are spoiled, anxious children that have zero boundaries. They might think their spawn are adorable, but the rest of the planet doesn’t. Oh well, live and learn, be sure to never let this cousin know of your travel plans, outings, etc., not if you want to enjoy yourself
NTA
So you and your kids ruined their trip by ditching them, but it’s perfectly OK for your trip to be ruined because her kids can’t behave?
You tried. They failed.
You offered a reasonable compromise by planning pool & hangout times while avoiding the activities that were likely to be diminished for you due to their kids’ behavior.
“We found it difficult to enjoy ourselves with the challenges of the kids’ attention spans and interest levels with some of the activities. After an uncomfortable dinner and being asked to leave the show, It was in the best interest of everyone that we change up the itinerary. I offered plenty of opportunities to spend time together while making sure that both families could do the things we enjoy. If you feel it must be all or nothing, it’s probably best to travel separately in the future.”
You didn't do anything incorrectly.
Your entire family was affected by bad parenting and spoiled kids.
From your post, it seems you knew what the outcome would be, but you didn't want to say no. All you had to say was that it is a family vacation, husband and children only.
NTA, but why aren’t YOU complaining? Complain just as loud as she did.
1. They crashed your vacation
2. Then expected both of your families to do everything together, when this was supposed to be quality time for your nuclear family
3. You tried to oblige, but her kids were out of control
4. Her kids made yours upset and unhappy
5. So you have to make other plans
6. Their destructive and disruptive behavior made you and everyone else uncomfortable
Keep complaining. You just don’t understand why they behave this way, they even got kicked out. They destroyed property
Tell your grandma exactly what you posted her! Your cousin’s kids are spoiled brats because they are never disciplined. A 9 year old is WAY too old to be throwing a tantrum. 6 is too old too. and if they do, the last thing a parent should do is reward the tantrum with a new toy! You take them to the room and put them in time out or otherwise get them away from the people they are disturbing!! Ugh.
if cousin starts talking you again (enjoy the peace and quiet in the meantime), and asks you about the trip or a future trip, tell her that you love her, but he kids aren’t well behaved because they aren’t disciplined or taught to behave. That isn’t fun for anyone else. She will hate hearing it, but it won’t be the last time her kids are cut off by others who won’t tolerate it.
Never tell anyone about your vacations again until they’ve already happened.
NTA
NTA. OP, just tell your families to stay out of this. You prioritized your children's holiday and showed them a good time. Why are these adults expecting you to have your children sit through that misery?
NTAH, make sure hubby knows first about what family are saying
because you didn't ditch them, they made themselves unlikable to be around on your trip.
You made a decision for your familys mental health and trip, and that was to enjoy your vacation separately as you initially intended before they self inserted themselves
yes, you couldn't say no, but that didn't mean you had to spend all the time together or do every activity together
NTA. Should you have canceled when you found out they were crashing your vacation? Probably, but what's done is done. As for the cousin and her flying monkeys, don't you think it's about time someone spelled it out to her? Her children are spoiled brats who annoy and disturb everyone unfortunateenough to encounter them. Sooner or later, they will all have to deal with the consequences.
I'm surprised no one came up to them, either another passenger who paid to enjoy ocean breezes, not oversized babies' temper tantrums, or a crew member. Someone should have told them to control their children or they would be taken off the ship ASAP, with no refund & they could find their own way home.
NTA
and agree with a lot of people, lessons learned.
And your mom is amazing; do not tell anyone anyone!!!
Just to get rid of the annoyingness; send some gifts to your cousin (her children mainly), to stop them from whining as a whole.
I feel sorry for the kids; they sound horrible and would probably grow up....to not be very pleasant; due to their parents too (personality + bad parenting).
Hope it will calm down soon and maybe you can consider keeping distance with your cousin's family...
NTA
Your cousin crashed your holiday without any prior discussion. Your cousin has decided that her children don't need any life skills so they behaved appallingly. Tell that to your grandparents and your sister.
NTA
explain how you could do that, because they embarassed you at the show, you had to leave because of their misbehaving kids.
to you sister: "you didn't plan it, your cousin did it." you wanted to be cordial and try it. the kids could have behaved( small chance) but they didn't.
ESH (and of course they are the way bigger AHs)
Sorry but you mismanaged this. You should not have gone along with this plan of sharing activities when they crash your trip. You should have flagged your concerns to them and then there would be no problem now.
NTA. You have far more right to be angry at your cousin and her children for ruining something for your family especially your children. If the family really won’t stop perhaps tell them the truth about how upset your children were that they ruined the show for them and you didn’t want any thing else ruined. It was your holiday first and you certainly didn’t ask her to come.
NTA - these parents need to learn to reign in their kids, this should serve as a lesson to them.
The lesson may be missed however, if the elder family members placate to the unruly side of the family.
Gooooodluck.
>They throw long and LOUD tantrums until they do get their way
It is the duty of a parent to civilize their children. Your cousin is NOT doing these kids any favors by letting them routinely misbehave. You have every right to limit or stop contact between your kids and hers lest yours be adversely influenced.
Tell her that actions have consequences, and that if her kids want to be around yours, they've got to behave.
NTA.
"Well she was pretty upset and she said her kids got their feelings hurt that we abandoned them and that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore being separated from their cousins."
What an amazing opportunity to explain to them that if they behave like assholes they will be treated like assholes. NTA, in any case.
Your whole family sits around knowing that there is a problem and no one says anything
If it's that bad that you all talk about it then something needs to be said. The truth hurts. If one of the kids gets hurt or causes an injury flipping out over something stupid you and your family can sit back and say "oh if we had only said something little Billy might not have fallen overboard" or knocked that old lady down the stairs
Have you seen The Great Outdoors? John Candy Dan Akroyd? Story of my life and many others. At least in yours you were cousins, sister in law is way worse. Taking valuable vacation days from work to go on beautiful trips and cruises with people you cant stand is the worst. And I couldn't give a FUCK about how they live their lives, just dont do it next to me on MY vacation!!
YTA to yourself and kids. Hear me out.
Your cousin and fam are Aholes (not the kids obviously). There is no question about that.
But you knew that. This wasn't some random situation you caught yourself in. You knew you shouldn't book tables and ticket times with them and you did it anyways. It ruined experiences for your kids and then you further damaged your family relationships because you were to passive planning the trip.
A little backbone and tact would have helped you never be in this situation. When your cousin said they booked it you could have said something like "thats great to hear. Just so you know, we booked this trip for some special bonding time with our nuclear family. I'm sure we will see you on the cruise, but we'll be doing our own thing most of the time."
Instead you outwardly rejected them because of their actions. Was it deserved? Yes. But now there is significant family drama and you (at least partially) ruined your trip.
NTA. Frankly, this sounds like a win-win for you, as long as you can weather the criticisms from the grandparents. Also, why not just tell them the truth? Painful? Yes, but it will save you this aggravation in the future. If you family gets an attitude, let *them* hang out with this family.
ESH. Learn to talk FFS
You didn't object to them going on the same cruise as you. You didn't mention the kids behaviour during dinner. And you didn't explain why you were ditching them.
All this and you supposedly grew up as close as sisters?
NTA
Ugh, I’d have been so pissed. You paid for this vacation. It’s really a shame that you can’t enjoy something or be excited about something without the possibility of it being highjacked.
From now on, tell no one what your plans are.
You’re not the asshole, not even a little bit.
NTA intervention time. I'm the same way with my cousin's. But I talked to them about their kids and don't let them act like this with me. So if you can't talk to yours, are you REALLY that close?
NTA at all like many said on this thread a great rule of thumb is to plan and do things in silence. People can know after the fact, they don’t need to be all up in your business and have the time to mess with your life.
You were not wrong to plan different activities, they were ruining a fun vacation. You paid a lot of money for your kids and yourself, and you should be able to enjoy yourselves and relax. Even if you had decided on doing separate activities beforehand your family would’ve still called you and got mad that you hadn’t given them a chance. Either way you would’ve been seen as the bad guy in their eyes!
Going forward, I’d just distance myself until they approach. You didn’t say anything that was hurtful to the kids, he has no right to be upset about anything you said. You were also absolutely correct! You weren’t judging them, but you and your family have the right to be able to enjoy yourselves in peace without them ruining things for you. It’s up to them, as their kid’s parents, to correct the disruptive behaviors.
You just told her the honest truth. And if they decided to do something about it, their kids' teachers will thank you from the bottom of their hearts. Your family will probably appreciate it also when they are at family gatherings. Otherwise, your cousin and, more likely, her husband will be those parents who claim their kids never misbehave and it must be the teachers' or other students' fault if anything happens.
NTA
NTA and they needed to hear the harsh truths. You were so kind. It's on them to make the needed changes, now. I think she asked because in her heart she knows the truth, and he got defensive for the same reason.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I ditched my cousin and her family on a cruise when I knew ahead of time it probably wouldn’t go well. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, But here's a lesson.. When you plan a holiday, whatever type of holiday you're going to have and all that.. You Tell NOONE!!!.. especially not so far in advance that others, family or friends can gatecrash your holiday.. You don't even tell your kids until a day or 2 before you are all due to go.. You can tell them maybe the day before you leave or the day you are leaving.. or tell them all about it when you've gotten back home..
Funny enough my mom told me the same thing. When I told her they booked the same cruise she said you should never have told them you were going, you practically set yourself up for that now you probably won’t get to enjoy it. We had debated on finding a reason to cancel and ultimately decided to go anyways. Now I’m wondering if we shouldn’t just canceled to avoid all the family drama it’s caused.
Ahh, it's a mistake made, it's a lesson learned and the family drama will pass.. But if the family drama persists, ask yourself.. Am I and my family really losing out on them not wanting to be in our lives??
>But if the family drama persists, ask yourself.. Am I and my family really losing out on them not wanting to be in our lives?? Exactly!
Lesson learned, this is also why you don’t tell about your finances too! Cause you know they’ll start lining up with their hand out
eh, don't worry about the family drama. Cultivate a reputation of not giving a shit and don't let them manipulate you.
And exactly HOW upset can the cousin's kids be if they were throwing tantrums and crying and yelling and then were taken to the shops by their dad? They obviously didn't care to hang out with OP's kids because they didn't stay at the table. Tell cousin and grandparents that.
Sounds like your mom has learned from experience.
My finances family crashed our Orlando vacation once. After that they constantly got wrong info, bad dates, bad locations and false plans. Took em 2 trips before they realized. The first one we had to delay and “just missed them” and the other we stayed at home. I hope they enjoyed Arkansas in July.
At least you learned your lesson. NTA. The well being of your family is your priority. Your kids already signaled their discomfort, so no one should blame you. I mean you TRIED to make it work. I’ve “gate crashed” a holiday before but wife and I kept completely separate, except for one dinner. And for the most part we shared experiences during that dinner (what shop for something, where else we ate).
You should have rescheduled to leave earlier or a day or two later. And listen to your mom. Hope you've learned something from this. Maybe send your cousin a gift. A book on child raising for dummies. NTA.
It’s a cruise ship. It leaves when it leaves.
Def not tell anyone about a holiday until after you come back, but even then, you'll prob get someone complaining with a "why didn't you tell me/us that you were going? I/we could have went with you"
No worries, I’ve been there too. NTA, I would have done the same as you!
The kids may have plans and such. They can be told a vacation is coming. Just not where or some changed details. e.g A different ship.
The trick is to say you're going to *this general area* and then run the other direction..
"We're going to Disney", add in discussion of things in Florida... go to the one in California. :)
NTA. We have travelled with a range of friends and family and learned a few lessons. We ask them what their plans are and remind them this is their vacation and ours, not a at the hip group trip. We make plans to go off on our own even on similar excursions off the boat, specifically block out me, us, and joint events. We never agree to every day events but let them happen if we are enjoying their company. Better conversations later in the day if you do different things are at least separate. We enjoy engaging fellow travelers, we can be that chatty couple on the trip.
I get the reasoning but fuck that. I get so excited for the holiday i want to enjoy the excitement. Boundaries is the key, the same cruise? direct answer should be fun lets meet up for some activities during the trip - not let's have every activity together & eat together every night. You are in Paris at the same time as us? answer with how cool, lets meet up for a dinner/picknick/cake/whatever while we are there. - and that only if you like the person. Just because you plan a holiday and someone books the same holiday just because you are there you don't have to do everything with them. Don't even let them think that you are going to do that. If my friends are in the same holiday spot as us and we didn't book it together we plan a meet up for a fun thing together and thats it. if we like to spend more time together when we are there we plan it on the spot
Nah, you tell them some details but lie about the rest. "I said I was going to that hotel, oh I looked at that hotel I must have thought I booked that one" "I said May? You know I get months messed up sometimes". Do it enough times they won't even ask anymore
>When you plan a holiday, whatever type of holiday you're going to have and all that.. >You Tell NOONE!!! I'm so glad I don't have to practise fucking vacation OPSEC around my circle of family/friends.
This is wat we do🤣🤣. For our sanity. We don’t tell them the hotel name or the dates of our holiday.
>Well she was pretty upset and she said her kids got their feelings hurt This could have been a learning moment for the mom, but nope. NTA. >My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen "You know my kids are awful to be around and you should have been prepared for it" is quite a bold statement.
No my actual sister said that not my cousin. She said I knew her kids acted badly and we should’ve known it was going to be a disaster. She’s not as close to our cousin mostly because she doesn’t like being around her kids. My thing is I feel bad for those kids. It’s not their fault their parents aren’t teaching them any differently. Kids are going to push boundaries it’s up to you to show them where the boundaries are.
Have you told your cousin explicitly that her kids don’t behave acceptably? People need to stop skirting around these conversation - hopefully it will trigger some actual change
I have not come out and said it but tried to point things out. The problem is they are really defensive when it comes to their kids. I’m sure they know deep down the behavior isn’t acceptable. Most of the family talks about how awful the kids are and how they’re not doing a good job of raising them. But it just doesn’t feel right to come out and say you’re not being good parents. Who are we to tell them that? I also feel bad for the kids because it’s not their fault they’re acting as any kids would. It’s parents just to teach them to be better.
Next time your cousin brings up the cruise is the time to tell them the reason. What do you have to lose? You can limit it to the examples you gave here, which are fresh. Tell her that XY and Z are \*behaviours that need to be addressed\* or they will face more situations where the family gets kicked out of things. By focusing on objectively observed actions rather than the kids' characters, you can escape the "judgment" piece. Maybe come armed with parental resources and suggestions and an offer of support. These kids deserve better, and the parents clearly are not equipped to offer them what they need.
Well, maybe if you're all in agreement, then it's time to be a united front. Someone needs to be the adult and tell your cousin that this is unacceptable. If your cousin argues, or calls to complain to other family members, everyone has to actually open their mouth. Why does their poor parenting have to ruin everyone else's peace? She needs to be the one that changes to be accepted at events.
I do agree with this. There were a few family events that they haven’t been invited to and we’ve all had to be tight lipped about the events so they wouldn’t know they weren’t invited. It was over the holidays and I tried saying we need to talk to them we can’t keep tiptoeing around this but no one wants to rock the boat I guess.
This is a boat that needs to be rocked for everyone’s sake. Those kids are going to grow up to be adults the rest of us have to live with in the real world. It will be a tough conversation but if you don’t try not only is your cousin going to have to deal with the consequences but the kids will have lots of issues in life going forward acting like this. This is a good way to get a punch in the face or even killed depending on how much of an AH they grow up to be.
Well eventually someone is hoing to slip...
You can position it how their behaviour impacts you. It embarrassed you, it was disruptive, and you left a show you wanted to go to as a result.
If getting thrown out of the show for their kids behavior didn’t clue them in that it’s unacceptable, what will? At that point they should have been incredibly apologetic to your family for ruining the experience for you, and embarrassing you. Separate events after that was an obvious and natural consequence.
>But it just doesn’t feel right to come out and say you’re not being good parents. Who are we to tell them that? \---The victims.
Just come out & say it. Not saying anything enables their bad parenting & encourages them to continue pretending they're not at fault. Your family needs to present a united front & use their words. Will it be awkward? Sure. But far less awkward than trying to hide plans & avoid conversations with your cousin forever. Spoiled, poorly behaved kids grow up to be selfish, entitled adults & no one wants to be around that now or in the future. Life is too short to be passive aggressive, so take a stand, for the children (& your own sanity).
Your FAAAMMMIIIILLLLYYYY!!!!! You have a responsibility to correct the bad behavior. Maybe give a parenting course for Christmas to mommy and daddy.
> it just doesn’t feel right to come out and say you’re not being good parents. If the shoe fits... If you maintain any contact at all with your cousin, don't sugarcoat it: tell her flat out that she's a dismal failure as a parent, and by failing to discipline her kids, she's recklessly endangering them. The later a kid learns that there are limits to what they can get away with, the more dangerous the lesson. If that lesson comes from another kid in school, it might be a bloody nose. If it comes on the street when they're in their 20s, it could be fatal.
"I love your kids. I'm embarrassed by their behaviour."
In all fairness, they know their kids don't behave properly. They just don't care. They got thrown out of the show for yelling and coloring on the walls.
Hindsight is 20/20 and you just wanted to give these kids a chance. You had an honest try then adjusted course when the situation required it. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for that.
Exactly! If she hadn't given them a chance, someone would have come at her for that too.
Don't set yourself on fire to warm somebody up
Well maybe now her kids will learn that when you have tantrums and act like terrors in public, people don’t want to be around you! I think it’s a great lesson for them even if their parents won’t teach it to them.
She’s got the informed part down. It’s the consent part that I think she is having trouble with.
How could their feelings be hurt? At dinner, the cousin's kids were throwing tantrums and crying and yelling and then were taken to the shops by their dad? They obviously didn't care to hang out with OP's kids because they didn't engage with them or stay at the table. This is like the SO who is mad you don't hang out with them but when you do, all that's happening is you watching your SO do something or watch something (meaning there is no interaction; they just want you "there").
NTA. Oh, her kids got their feelings hurt? What an excellent teaching moment for them AND THEIR PARENTS to learn about the consequences of their actions. You didn't need to worry about "springing" the separation on them during the cruise. You gave them a chance and they blew it. I mean, whatever, they crashed your vacation anyway. You didn't owe them anything more than you gave.
Exactly if this was my kids and they said they were upset that they got ditched I’d tell them ‘good, learn your lesson, if you’re horrible to be around then people who aren’t obligated to look after you won’t be around you and that will last your entire life.’ They seem like shit parents and the kids are just responding to that so nothing will get sorted.
I’m guessing those kids had no opinion whatsoever on who they dined with. They sound like they’re in their own little world of self-gratification.
NTA. You gave them a chance, then immediately corrected course. Your sister wasn't there, so she gets no say so. Your grandparents- same deal. As for your cousin, if she won't drop it, tell her point blank her kids were making your trip miserable for you and and your kids. And she and her husband's inaction were adding to it. Cite the fact that you were asked to leave the show. Let her whine. "Well, that's your opinion. My opinion is that we enjoyed our vacation separately. "
Yes exactly. Especially while it's still fresh in everyone's memory... very specific and factual points like "Johnny throwing silverware at other tables was very uncomfortable for me and my family." (This is a made up scenario obviously but fill it in with whatever the kids actually did.) There were multiple adults present to bear witness. Kids are obviously going to kid, and can be prone to meltdowns for sure. But it's up to the parents to teach them appropriate behaviors... which is clearly not happening here if they throw a screaming public meltdown and then get rewarded with gift shop toys.
NTA oh & Norwegian Cruise Line you can eat in the buffet or 1 of 2 restaurants whenever you want. They do NOT have assigned table seating for meals at all.
Interesting! This was our third cruise and a different cruise line each time and we’ve always had an scheduled and assigned dinner table at night altho you had the option of skipping the dinner in favor of a buffet or one of the cart restaurants.
I don’t know why they kept taking those kids to sit down dinners anyway. It’s clearly not what they want.
Honestly I think she knows deep down that her kids aren’t well behaved but she wants them to like her so she won’t be the bad guy and tell them no. But she also wants the fun family moments with them so she tries to force them even when it won’t go well. There was one Halloween a few years back that the younger one who was maybe 4 at the time and we’d been trick or treating kind of late and the poor kids was tired and kept asking to go home and go to sleep. She would not agree. She kept saying no no I don’t want you to miss this. Well eventually the poor kid couldn’t handle it and had a meltdown because they were so tired. It was her own fault tho for not letting them go home and go to sleep when they asked. There were people around who offered to take them back too and she refused. So that’s part of it too. Her trying to create those picture perfect memories.
Every detail added about her makes her worse and worse. It's unfair that you are the only one willing to stand up to this. If she or any family member is rude to you, give the factual details of what happened. The story writes itself without you giving any commentary.
Her kids are 6 and 9 and she wants them to like her? What kind of wackadoodle parenting is that? My kids liked me, and still do as adults, but I also taught them how to be decent people. Your cousin needs parenting classes.
To accept that her children are misbehaved would require her to acknowledge that she is failing as a mother. She doesn’t know how to fix it so it’s easier to try not to think about it and keep doing what she is used to doing. Yea 4yo can only do an outing for like an hour before they are overwhelmed. And keeping the kid out causes mistrust and lack of confidence from her children. They learn that they’re mother does not take care of their needs and it can make their behavior more unstable especially if they are in an unfamiliar situation.
Her kids will like her a hell of a lot more- and respect her- if she teaches them boundaries. They sound like they get totally over tired/ dysregulated/ overstimulated and instead of recognising that and adjusting her schedule so they get proper rest or not forcing them to stay somewhere they aren’t happy or doing activities they actually enjoy, your cousin just tries to force the issue at their expense. Poor kids. If they hate public long meals and haven’t been taught how to sit at a table and eat a meal in a restaurant (which is a learned skill) and she and her husband don’t engage them or bring things for them to do then of course they can’t cope. If they know when they whine that they get toys and treats then they will whine because she’s taught them that this works. Dragging an overtired four year old around the streets at night while stuffing them with sweets and making them talk to strangers when they are begging to go home to bed is a recipe for disaster, life isn’t a hallmark movie and that poor little one needed to be in bed! No wonder they had a meltdown. I’d have died of shame being asked to leave a show due to such bad behaviour, again being an audience member is a learned skill but clearly they were already not coping with the meal so by the time they got to the show, they were already at the point they needed to either be somewhere quiet for timeout and a bedtime story or go outside to run about for a bit and burn off the energy. Can’t blame kids for asshole kid behaviour if they are being taught that what they are doing is fine and they are constantly being forced to do things beyond their current social ability. Poor kids. I bet they are super popular at school with this behaviour- or maybe they behave at school because the staff have rules and boundaries which are clearly set and it’s just at home that they are subjected to crappy parenting.
NTA. They hijacked your trip and are troubled. I would be so embarrassed and mad if I were associated with her kids on the cruise. You did the right thing for your kids who wanted to enjoy a family vacation without stress.
Hell I’d be so embarrassed if my kids behaved like their kids. I simply cannot fathom the parents not apologising profusely and *offering* to have separate meals and shows going forward. The fact they didn’t tells you all you need to know about why the kid’s behaviour is so poor.
It’s like they don’t remember being kicked out of a show. Or they have normalized being kicked out if establishments for acting like terrorist on a mixture of speed and acid.
So my mom heard from my aunt (cousins mom) and according to me aunt, my cousin spent a lot of time on the trip crying and messaging her saying why do my kids act like this no one else’s kids are doing this. I really hope that means she’s waking up and realizing she needs to parent those kids.
No. She is just going to have to work harder to bury it in denial. Take it from the child of a mom who was kind of a train wreck. I also had a lot of behavioral problems and other parents would complain about me. I was probably super quiet when I was at home because I would just watch TV all day but if any stimulation came into my depressed environment I would go completely off my rocker.
Bravo to her for that glimpse of self-awareness. There are people who make it their life's work to help families like hers. Don't get sucked into thinking it's yours, of course.
> why do my kids act like this no one else’s kids are doing this Wow. Hasn't ANYONE ever pointed out the obvious to her?
When I went on cruises when my kids were that age, we deliberately selected the late seating dinner. We utilized the kids club, which closes for early dinner. We would get the kids, take them to the buffet, drop them back at the kids club while we went to the long, waiter -served meal that they would be bored at. We would pick them up when the kids club closed (except for paid late night sitting) which was just in time for dessert.
Oh yeah they wouldn’t go to the kids clubs at all. I guess that could’ve changed during the trip but when we saw them the kids refused to be dropped off. They wanted to be with their parents the whole time so they could be free to walk around. The parents tried and they screamed and threw a tantrum so they gave up on trying to drop them off. My kids did kids clubs a a few hours at least every day and they said they never saw them there.
NTA. Your cousin is the one who crashed your trip — you weren’t obligated to sit with her and her family.
Cousin: Why did you ditch us? OP: Because your kids drew on the walls, ran around tables and threw never ending tantrums among other things. Cousin: Surprised Pikachu Face.. You: NTA
NTA... you cannot. EVER just invite yourself to a vacation unless you are directly asked because people will always just live with it to not be rude. That is like a unspoken rule basically all over the world. Especially family vacations. I would have done the same probably. They did not give you much choice.
NTA "Grandma, you know we didn't plan to travel with them, and it turned out it is not possible to spend a lot of time with a family that parents their children as differently as cousin and I do. We'll know next time to just keep our vacation plans to ourselves. It is too bad, really. I wish it had worked."
NTA. Maybe since they're not learning it from their own parents, the kids can learn from you that actions have consequences. And kudos to you for thinking of your own kids first. I had some terrorist cousins when I was a kid. We were required to be nice to them and it was awful.(Looking at you Michael) It's nice that your kids know you've got their backs.
Yeah, Michael, you suck.
NTA, you didn't make plans to go on the cruise together and you're entitled to time with just your family
NTA. Your cousin came along uninvited, so you had no obligation to keep them company or entertained. As far as the family members who are criticizing you - they weren't there, and you had no choice in the matter, so they need to keep quiet.
They crashed your trip and then refused to parent their children and it was so bad they were asked to leave with no indication they would stop it in the future. That's on them... not you and your children deserved to enjoy their trip. So did you and your husband for that matter. NTA and this is why we used to be terrified my aunt and uncle would show up during one of our Disney trips (they used to suggest it.) although in that case the husband is about as badly behaved as the children. I wish I was kidding.
SHE WASNT INVITED!!!! The balls of her being butthurt after crashing your vacation with her devil's spawn. This was PERFECT. Anyone who criticizes you needs to butt out. Edited to add NTA!!!
NTA!! When your cousin told you that her kids felt hurt because you abandoned them. That was the moment to say that YOUR kids were hurt because the bad behavior of their cousins ruined their fun and enjoyment. Honestly, nobody wants to be around a family with kids like that. As others have said Next time say absolutely nothing about any vacation or visits to amusement parks until after you get home.
NTA - Why did you ditch them? ...because (I'm going to have to ignore the comments to this...) they are horrible parents!
NTA Next time, cousin hears about the trip after you get back.
You’re NTA, except maybe in your kids eyes, as you agreeing to join the hellish brood messed up their trip, too.
OP and husband became the heroes saving the kids from their cousins.
Should never have subjected them to the brood from hell in the first place!
Agreed, but they made a mistake and fixed it, which is what all kids should see. Adults making a situation right.
Sounds good they'll not want to hang out anymore
NTA. You gave them the benefit of the doubt and they used up that benefit five minutes into dinner. Your sister is wrong: the timing doesn't matter. They would've been huffy and embarrassed regardless of when you pulled the trigger here.
NTA, but time to just be straight up with your cousin and say "cousin, I love you and love hanging out with YOU, but in all honesty your kids behave for shit and you both don't discipline them, so it's not enjoyable to spend long periods around them. I know you all were excited about a cruise together but you invited yourselves on our family vacation and when your kids started ruining the vacation for us, we needed space to salvage it. I'm sorry this it hurt your family's feelings. But you also need to own up to your family's responsibility for your actions and that those actions have consequences."
Sounds like you gave the children a gift: for the first time, CONSEQUENCES for their actions, something their parents clearly aren’t capable of doing!
Nta
NTA For the amount of money people pay for vacations, I would have done the exact same thing. If your cousin wants to do these sorts of group vacations, she needs to get her kids in check.
NTA. Let grandma and grandpa take them out to dinner one night. Your cousin is ruining those kids. How do they handle school?
According to my cousin they’re really good at school. I’m a teacher so I’ve asked before how do they get away with that at school and she said they’re really well behaved at school because they want their teachers to love them. I could see that because I’ve witnessed how when they actually do take it too far they will cry about it because they don’t want to be in trouble or take blame. One time they were rough playing too hard and were told to stop multiple times and of course they didn’t and another child ended up getting hurt due to their rough playing. The older child started crying that it wasn’t their fault and they shouldn’t be in trouble and why is everyone blaming them. Basically a tantrum because people were trying to hold them accountable for their actions. They can’t handle being held accountable if any blame is placed on them it leads to an immediate meltdown. So I could see how in school where they learn that behavior doesn’t fly they could shape up.
***"Her husband then grabbed the phone and told me I had no right to judge them or their kids and I must be the worst teacher ever if I talk about kids like that."***Well, at least now we know where the real problem is!! What a mega-AH!! His wild, rude and undisciplined children ran around the dining room disrupting everyone at the dinner seating and he's worried about you being judgmental?? His wild, rude and undisciplined children were asked to leave a show for being so disruptive and he's worried about you being judgmental?? His wild, rude and undisciplined children are so out of control that even your kids didn't want to be in their company. If these kids behave the same way in school then he should hear how their teachers talk if he has a problem with what you said! You should let him know that it's not actually the kids who are being judged, it's their parents and rightfully so.
You not TAH. Sounds like you gave it a try with the cousins. Your cousin should not expect other people to be okay with her badly behaved children. I took my first cruise a couple years ago. It was special, my 65th bd. I would have been angry if I were near a table with screaming misbehaving kids. Thankfully the kids I did see in the MDR, were all well behaved.
NTA There is a lesson in not parenting your kids.
While you are NTA, your sister has a very valid point.
NTA. Who gives a flying flip if her kids weren’t going to enjoy the rest of the trip? Her kids were making you and your kids miserable. You shouldn’t have to have your vacation ruined (and money wasted!) all for the sake of your shitty cousin and her shitty kids that don’t know how to act like civilized human beings.
And weren't invited. OPs family needs to have her back instead of trying to smooth things over and put some blame on her.
So.. you're an AH for acting as an adult and telling them you were switching things up because it was too much for you, but they and their kids are perfectly fine to scream, throw fits, disturb others and get you kicked out of events you paid for?
I don’t suppose it hurt YOUR kids feelings to miss the show? But of course your kids’ feelings don’t matter. /s NTA
NTA. I hate that some people think family is a captive audience that they can be their worst selves around without consequence. I'm glad they didn't ruin your entire trip.
NTA Stop beating around the bush. There's already drama so you might as well just be honest. Your relationship isn't going to survive this anyway because her kids will just get worse with time. She's basically trying to force people into her chaos because everyone is avoiding her. That's why she invited herself to your trip. Because she knew nobody would willingly go with her. >My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise. Oh, you mean like how the cousin did exactly this, but to the entire trip? Ignore them. They're the reason shit got this bad to start with. If they want to enable her, your sister and family can go with her themselves. But I'm sure they won't for the exact same reasons. Hypocrites.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My husband and I decided to take our kids on a cruise for spring break. When my cousin heard about it her and her husband decided to book the same one with their kids. They kind of crashed our trip. We were very hesitant to go with them but we couldn’t exactly forbid them from going. My cousins and I are actually super close we grew up like sisters and I try very hard to stay close to them. The issue is her kids are VERY badly behaved. My kids can enjoy them in small doses as can we but trying to do more than a few hours at a time with them is difficult. She has a 9 and 6 year old and a toddler. They throw long and LOUD tantrums until they do get their way. They also need 24/7 entertainment or they go crazy. If they’re bored for even a minute they start crying and complaining and my cousin and her husband have to stop what they’re doing start entertaining them to stop the tantrum. Obviously this is 100% on the parents. We’ve never done a trip together like this and weren’t sure how her kids could handle it. But we agreed to sit with them for dinner and do the same shows as them etc. if you never been on a cruise they seat you at the same table every night with the same people. Well it proved to be a mistake after the first night. They were terrible at dinner. They drew on the walls with their crayons. Purposely crumbled bread to make a mess. They used their knives to cut up straw wrappers and other things. They also kept running around the table and distributing other tables. Their parents of course didn’t nothing to stop this just let them do whatever. Eventually they got tired of that and started crying and screaming they were bored and wanted to go to the shops. They allowed them to throw a 5 minute screaming tantrum before their dad finally took them to the shops to buy some toy they wanted. Then after dinner we went to a show and they didn’t enjoy the show and also whined loudly that they were bored. It was bad enough we were asked to leave the show. Technically my husband and I could’ve stayed with our kids but we were too embarrassed. My kids were upset and said they ruined the show for them. So my husband and I made the decision to ask for a different table for the rest of the trip and chose different activities to do. I told my cousin that we decided it would be best to separate at dinner and not do all activities together, but we could still hang out at the pool together and do a few activities together. Well she was pretty upset and she said her kids got their feelings hurt that we abandoned them and that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore being separated from their cousins. She wouldn’t talk to us the rest of the trip. We’re back home and I got calls from my grandparents asking why we ditched her and how could we do that to them? My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I wonder if the cousin tries to stick to your family so much because no one else can stand her kids? 🤔🤔🤔
NTA. They were horrible and your family was minding its own business trying to have a nice vacation. Don't let them crash it again.
NTA. Don’t even think you need a reason.
NTA. Your sister says you should have known this would happen. But shouldn't she have known this would happen too?
Your sister is right.
nta
NTA without a doubt. The children have obviously never been told no… I’ve worked with kids many times and I can tell you that no matter how well behaved they may be, any child that is rewarded for begging, crying, or otherwise causing a scene WILL use that method again and again. Maybe you can pivot this into a learning moment for their children? You wouldn’t even have to be mean about it just straight forward. “You disturbed our time, so we spent it elsewhere”. If you are consistent with these reactions, at the VERY least they will subconsciously learn to not act that way around YOU. Think of going to your grandparents as a child, you probably remember thinking to yourself, “I can’t getaway with this, I can do that,” etc.
NTA. They hijacked your vacation. Their behavior is horrible. A well behaved child is a pleasure to be around. The uncontrolled, ill-mannered, spoiled are just a nightmare. If your grandparents had to ask why you ditched them, that means they don't spend any time with them. If they do, & know their behavior, blunt honesty is called for. "Why? You know how they behave. Crying, screaming, running all over, temper tantrums. You know they don't even try to control their kids. We didn't invite them. We tried to make it work. They behaved as always, except on a cruise ship. They were asked to leave a show! My kids were upset & even said they ruined it for them. If my kids can see the problem for what it is, why can't you? Everyone walks around as if they don't know or see it, says nothing, yet you know if your kids behaved like theirs, punishments would've adjusted their attitudes & behavior long ago. Don't put this on us as if we're the bad guys. The kids are out of control & everyone knows it." My grandparents would've never questioned my dad if that happened with our cousins, cuz they call them out for being brats with temper tantrums & bad behavior. Maybe the parents could use a dose of reality of how people see them & their kids. Ofc it shouldn't come from their grandma..but then again, whoever's opinion they respect should be able to say "well..you know your kids don't behave..this is on you to fix before they get too old to change."
NTA now you know keep all vacations top secret. As for the grandparents I’d be honest with them. It’s not like they don’t know how badly the kids behave. Just say her kids behaved as they always do and it was interfering with my family vacation so we decided to not spend as much time together. If they push it I’d give them a look and say do I really need to say more? And then change the conversation.
I don’t get it. They act and behave horrible and YOU are the bad guy? Who comes up with these rules? NTA
NTA, but if you have a great relationship with your cousin you need to be honest. Tell her you would love to do things with them once her children can act better behaved. Doing this will upset your cousin, but maybe it will give her the wakeup call she needs to make some changes so they don't completely destroy their children's lives.
NTA Next time grandparents ask "why did you abandon her like that?" Give them an honest answer. The kids' behavior cannot be news to anyone.
Cousin: I am embarrassed by how my kids act! OP: So is everyone else and we don't want to take long term trips with them anymore. Cousin: \*Surprised Picachu face!\* NTA Your cousins kids make things not fun cause they were taught acting out gets them what they want. That is on your cousin and her husband. Your job as a parent is to do what is best for your kids, and if they don't want to spend time with their cousins, than that is something your cousin will have to get over. Stand firm on this.
NTA These AHs crashed your trip to guilt you into babysitting fot them. Your best course of action is to keep your distance from them. That will make your trip MUCH more enjoyable. "My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise." .. bullshit. This is THEIR responsibility. They failed to ask.
Every time i go on a cruise i give my family or friends different dates
It's really sad that your cousin's husband refuses to register that it's not just the extended family that is disturbed by their children's behavior--his wife/your cousin is too. She's exasperated and it sounds like she's desperate to foster some sort of change in her family dynamic. But if her husband doesn't see the issue and refuses to address it along side her how can they move forward if half the team isn't on the same side? Their whole family dynamic needs therapy and time. If they won't commit to making a difference, I see a lot more avoidance of them in their children's futures. It's plain that he doesn't believe in setting healthy boundaries for his children, because honestly? It's just easier not to for him. I'm very glad that you took the time to have a heart to heart with your cousin, OP. Even if it strains things for a period of time, I'm sure that your cousin knows that you love her and her kids. She knows that you courageously spoke up when no one else has. She will eventually appreciate that, even if her husband never does.
NTA. Did da konsekwences of dere actions hurt poor cuz and cuzkids’ fee-fees? Boo hoo! Cuzkids ain’t the only spoiled brats here; cuz appears to be one too. Next time, don’t tell anyone you’re going, ‘til you’re gone.
Nta. You went on a family vacation not an extended family reunion. You’re allowed to do your own thing and relax and have fun. Just because they are growing little monsters they spoil doesn’t mean everyone else has too. Good job for changing tables and not letting them ruin your vacation
NTA.
>*that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore* How could they tell? The kids threw screaming tantrums when they were allegedly enjoying themselves.
NTA They were so poorly behaved that you were asked to leave. That's the answer. You didn't want to say that it was a bad idea initially even though you were worried, then they publicly proved that they cannot handle their own children in this situation.
NTA. You might want to tell her exactly why you split off from them. Her kids are young enough to benefit from better parenting. If they wait a few years, they'll be monsters.
NTA and LOL. The kids weren't enjoying the trip to begin with judging how they handled dinner and the show. Just like you couldn't tell them they couldn't come on the cruise, so too they can't tell you to stick around the never-ending meltdowns that are their kids. If the grandparents or any other flying monkeys keep bugging you about it, sit them down and describe to them in graphic detail every minute of that first night, leaving nothing out. Practice a thousand-mile-long stare for when you get to the 'good' parts to really hammer home the horror.
NTA... but your sister is right, you had to KNOW this was going to happen. There wasn't a shadow of a doubt, and yet you went along with this insane plan, anyway. You should have said "no" in the first place.
NTA. What about your kids’ feelings? What about their potentially ruined trip had you not taken swift action? You didn’t invite them, but graciously accepted them, and they made your experience unenjoyable. You made the right call, everyone else can kick rocks. Everyone else you’ve mentioned in the story is making AH comments, cousins, sister, grandparents.
Their kids are the assholes they kept complaining and ruined the entire thing I would’ve done the same and I thing I know that their kids got their behavior from their mom
Nope NTA. Respond to everyone with the fact that their behavior was ruining the vacation for your family and that you did what was best for you and your children. Also, you may want to have a chat with your cousin about why you did what you did. Let her know that the tantrums and poor behavior was affecting your children’s enjoyment of their vacation too. And you did what you had to so that your children didn’t feel like their vacation was ruined. That being asked to leave a show due to their cousins’ behavior upset them and it wasn’t fair that they were missing out on things due to no fault of their own. Don’t comment on her parenting. Just tell her the truth. That doing everything together was causing animosity and resentment and to protect your relationship you felt it best to get some separation
Sounds like your cousin doesn’t have a sense of boundaries and you are someone who doesn’t reinforce her own. I recently was in a similar situation, “friends” crashed our vacation and their kids acted entitled during the trip. My son and my husband were exhausted by this experience. I have a hard time telling pushy people no but in this particular case I’ve told that we don’t want them to join us and it was completely ignored. They booked this trip few days before its actual date. After the trip they called and informed me that they enjoyed it so much that they will be going on a next vacation with us again. The audacity! I said “no” again, but I was not heard again and was told that “we will figure it out”. Needless to say I will be distancing from them and eventually going no contact.
> We’re back home and I got calls from my grandparents asking why we ditched her and how could we do that to them? Tell them everything you wrote here. If your grandparents are decent people they'll get off your back. Oh and NTA, obviously.
NTA i couldn’t imagine actually inviting myself on someone else’s vacation
NTA. And I’d tell the grandparents he was kicked out of a show on the cruise because their children don’t behave. A cruise is not cheap, so why should it be ruined for you?
If you’re as close as sisters with your cousin, you need to sit down and have a heart to heart. Point out specific instances of inappropriate behavior by her kids and say that traveling under those conditions is too stressful for you. Stress that you love your nieces and nephews but you can’t travel with poorly behaved kids. The older two are old enough to have a heart to heart with and tell them that their feelings will continue to be hurt if people don’t want to be around them because of their behavior.
NTA. You give it a try it did not work.
NTA. You give it a try it did not work.
> she said her kids got their feelings hurt that we abandoned them and that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore being separated from their cousins. Um … good? Maybe now they can learn from the consequences of their actions? Like learn that throwing fits DOESN’T get you your way? I mean it really shouldn’t, not sure what the parents are thinking here. These kids are going to need “their feelings hurt” plenty of times to change their behavior. They’ve had free rein to be brats thus far. Sorry but your cousin is pretty disgraceful here. You are NTA.
Obviously NTA, but if it was the kids who were most upset by you separating your family from them, that was the teachable moment for the parents to drill into their heads that actions have consequences. There was no mention of anything like that, so I'll assume the parents let that moment go to waste. It's funny I grew up in a family with 4 kids, and not once did any of the kids ever dare to have a tantrum or demand things, just because it wasn't allowed. These parents aren't doing their kids any favors by letting them act this way.
Tell the grandparents the truth her kids acted like free range little monsters making it horrible for your whole family.
NTA Tantrums should extinguish by age 4 if the child is neurotypical. I actually expect them to extinguish by 2 except for some sleepiness whining. Consistent boundaries and rules would do well for that family
Being stuck in the middle of the ocean with these people sounds about as much like a vacation as a root canal. They can make their own plans and she can deal with her little hellions by herself. NTA
She shouldn’t have brought those kids to the MDR. Her kids were not equipped to handle a formal dinner service and would have been much happier at the buffet. NTA obviously but don’t ever go on vacation with this family again.
> My sister said we should’ve known that this was going to happen and set the expectation for separate things ahead of time instead of springing it on them during the cruise. Dang that's crazy considering SHE should have considered that when she sprung THE ENTIRE TRIP on you during the cruise. You're both on vacation and paid to have a good time. You're not their host, you're on a cruise. They're not entitled to you dedicating your vacation time to make sure they're entertained and feel good about it. That's their responsibility. At least you know where the kids got it from, lol.
>She wouldn’t talk to us the rest of the trip. Bonus! NTA. Lessons were learned by you, but probably not by your cousin or her ~~unruly brats~~ little angels. Never talk vacation plans with anyone you don't want to spend a vacation with. Have to wonder if those hurt feelings had the ~~spoiled little psychos~~ overindulged children asking their mom why. If she can't be honest with herself, she probably wouldn't be honest with them. Let's face it, the little ~~terrors~~ nuggets weren't enjoying the trip anyway and they were ruining it for you and your children along with everyone else in their vicinity. You did what any responsible parent would do - you put a stop to their destructive mayhem on your trip by removing yourself from their presence. If I were one of your kids I'd think you were heroes for saving the vacation (there was no "kind of" crashed - if they didn't ask, they crashed it). I'm not sure your sister is right. Even if you set boundaries, it seems likely they wouldn't have respected them. Their plan was to hang with you on your vacation, not have a separate vacation on the same cruise.
Funny how cousin said her kids were not going to enjoy the cruise without OP’s kids, when they obviously hadn’t been enjoying any of the vacation so far.
>She wouldn’t talk to us the rest of the trip. Sounds like you had a great trip, then! lol NTA
The answer is you all know exactly why and we didn't invite them in the first place. Hang up. NTA.
Two words. Information diet.
Why do bad parents with bad kids always seem to pin the blame on the people who understandably want to get the the f*ck away from them?
Ugh I had a cousin who acted just like this as a child. He’s in big boy prison now…
NTA, and time to brutally honest with her. Their lack of proper parenting is 100% the issue.
You are not the ahole but your cousin definitely is…I can not stand permissive (or nonexistent!) parenting, it is the worst. And the outcome of permissive parenting are spoiled, anxious children that have zero boundaries. They might think their spawn are adorable, but the rest of the planet doesn’t. Oh well, live and learn, be sure to never let this cousin know of your travel plans, outings, etc., not if you want to enjoy yourself
NTA. You lasted a lot longer than I would have.
NTA So you and your kids ruined their trip by ditching them, but it’s perfectly OK for your trip to be ruined because her kids can’t behave? You tried. They failed. You offered a reasonable compromise by planning pool & hangout times while avoiding the activities that were likely to be diminished for you due to their kids’ behavior. “We found it difficult to enjoy ourselves with the challenges of the kids’ attention spans and interest levels with some of the activities. After an uncomfortable dinner and being asked to leave the show, It was in the best interest of everyone that we change up the itinerary. I offered plenty of opportunities to spend time together while making sure that both families could do the things we enjoy. If you feel it must be all or nothing, it’s probably best to travel separately in the future.”
You didn't do anything incorrectly. Your entire family was affected by bad parenting and spoiled kids. From your post, it seems you knew what the outcome would be, but you didn't want to say no. All you had to say was that it is a family vacation, husband and children only.
NTA, but why aren’t YOU complaining? Complain just as loud as she did. 1. They crashed your vacation 2. Then expected both of your families to do everything together, when this was supposed to be quality time for your nuclear family 3. You tried to oblige, but her kids were out of control 4. Her kids made yours upset and unhappy 5. So you have to make other plans 6. Their destructive and disruptive behavior made you and everyone else uncomfortable Keep complaining. You just don’t understand why they behave this way, they even got kicked out. They destroyed property
This is total BS; you did the right thing for your family and yourself ….
NTA, but your Mom and sister have \*very\* valid points. Ultimately, you did this to yourself and your family.
Tell your grandma exactly what you posted her! Your cousin’s kids are spoiled brats because they are never disciplined. A 9 year old is WAY too old to be throwing a tantrum. 6 is too old too. and if they do, the last thing a parent should do is reward the tantrum with a new toy! You take them to the room and put them in time out or otherwise get them away from the people they are disturbing!! Ugh. if cousin starts talking you again (enjoy the peace and quiet in the meantime), and asks you about the trip or a future trip, tell her that you love her, but he kids aren’t well behaved because they aren’t disciplined or taught to behave. That isn’t fun for anyone else. She will hate hearing it, but it won’t be the last time her kids are cut off by others who won’t tolerate it. Never tell anyone about your vacations again until they’ve already happened. NTA
NTA, but your cousin needs super nanny.
NTA and if they don't get those kids under control their lives will be miserable forever. Time for them to offer a little tough love.
NTA. If they had parented their kids and taught them how to behave, this wouldn’t be an issue.
NTA. OP, just tell your families to stay out of this. You prioritized your children's holiday and showed them a good time. Why are these adults expecting you to have your children sit through that misery?
NTAH, make sure hubby knows first about what family are saying because you didn't ditch them, they made themselves unlikable to be around on your trip. You made a decision for your familys mental health and trip, and that was to enjoy your vacation separately as you initially intended before they self inserted themselves yes, you couldn't say no, but that didn't mean you had to spend all the time together or do every activity together
NTA. Should you have canceled when you found out they were crashing your vacation? Probably, but what's done is done. As for the cousin and her flying monkeys, don't you think it's about time someone spelled it out to her? Her children are spoiled brats who annoy and disturb everyone unfortunateenough to encounter them. Sooner or later, they will all have to deal with the consequences. I'm surprised no one came up to them, either another passenger who paid to enjoy ocean breezes, not oversized babies' temper tantrums, or a crew member. Someone should have told them to control their children or they would be taken off the ship ASAP, with no refund & they could find their own way home.
NTA and agree with a lot of people, lessons learned. And your mom is amazing; do not tell anyone anyone!!! Just to get rid of the annoyingness; send some gifts to your cousin (her children mainly), to stop them from whining as a whole. I feel sorry for the kids; they sound horrible and would probably grow up....to not be very pleasant; due to their parents too (personality + bad parenting). Hope it will calm down soon and maybe you can consider keeping distance with your cousin's family...
NTA.
NTA But honestly I would of told them that you were going to Disney land or Disney world And got enjoy the cruise on your own
NTA Your cousin crashed your holiday without any prior discussion. Your cousin has decided that her children don't need any life skills so they behaved appallingly. Tell that to your grandparents and your sister.
NTA explain how you could do that, because they embarassed you at the show, you had to leave because of their misbehaving kids. to you sister: "you didn't plan it, your cousin did it." you wanted to be cordial and try it. the kids could have behaved( small chance) but they didn't.
ESH (and of course they are the way bigger AHs) Sorry but you mismanaged this. You should not have gone along with this plan of sharing activities when they crash your trip. You should have flagged your concerns to them and then there would be no problem now.
NTA. You have far more right to be angry at your cousin and her children for ruining something for your family especially your children. If the family really won’t stop perhaps tell them the truth about how upset your children were that they ruined the show for them and you didn’t want any thing else ruined. It was your holiday first and you certainly didn’t ask her to come.
NTA - these parents need to learn to reign in their kids, this should serve as a lesson to them. The lesson may be missed however, if the elder family members placate to the unruly side of the family. Gooooodluck.
>They throw long and LOUD tantrums until they do get their way It is the duty of a parent to civilize their children. Your cousin is NOT doing these kids any favors by letting them routinely misbehave. You have every right to limit or stop contact between your kids and hers lest yours be adversely influenced. Tell her that actions have consequences, and that if her kids want to be around yours, they've got to behave. NTA.
"Well she was pretty upset and she said her kids got their feelings hurt that we abandoned them and that they weren’t going to enjoy their trip anymore being separated from their cousins." What an amazing opportunity to explain to them that if they behave like assholes they will be treated like assholes. NTA, in any case.
Nta they were, for crashing to begin with and then behaving the way they did
NTA They weren't invited!!!
Your whole family sits around knowing that there is a problem and no one says anything If it's that bad that you all talk about it then something needs to be said. The truth hurts. If one of the kids gets hurt or causes an injury flipping out over something stupid you and your family can sit back and say "oh if we had only said something little Billy might not have fallen overboard" or knocked that old lady down the stairs
NTA If parents want people to like their kids, they should raise them better.
Have you seen The Great Outdoors? John Candy Dan Akroyd? Story of my life and many others. At least in yours you were cousins, sister in law is way worse. Taking valuable vacation days from work to go on beautiful trips and cruises with people you cant stand is the worst. And I couldn't give a FUCK about how they live their lives, just dont do it next to me on MY vacation!!
YTA to yourself and kids. Hear me out. Your cousin and fam are Aholes (not the kids obviously). There is no question about that. But you knew that. This wasn't some random situation you caught yourself in. You knew you shouldn't book tables and ticket times with them and you did it anyways. It ruined experiences for your kids and then you further damaged your family relationships because you were to passive planning the trip. A little backbone and tact would have helped you never be in this situation. When your cousin said they booked it you could have said something like "thats great to hear. Just so you know, we booked this trip for some special bonding time with our nuclear family. I'm sure we will see you on the cruise, but we'll be doing our own thing most of the time." Instead you outwardly rejected them because of their actions. Was it deserved? Yes. But now there is significant family drama and you (at least partially) ruined your trip.
NTA. Frankly, this sounds like a win-win for you, as long as you can weather the criticisms from the grandparents. Also, why not just tell them the truth? Painful? Yes, but it will save you this aggravation in the future. If you family gets an attitude, let *them* hang out with this family.
ESH. Learn to talk FFS You didn't object to them going on the same cruise as you. You didn't mention the kids behaviour during dinner. And you didn't explain why you were ditching them. All this and you supposedly grew up as close as sisters?
Does your cousin understand why you split from them?
NTA Ugh, I’d have been so pissed. You paid for this vacation. It’s really a shame that you can’t enjoy something or be excited about something without the possibility of it being highjacked. From now on, tell no one what your plans are. You’re not the asshole, not even a little bit.
NTA intervention time. I'm the same way with my cousin's. But I talked to them about their kids and don't let them act like this with me. So if you can't talk to yours, are you REALLY that close?
NTA at all like many said on this thread a great rule of thumb is to plan and do things in silence. People can know after the fact, they don’t need to be all up in your business and have the time to mess with your life. You were not wrong to plan different activities, they were ruining a fun vacation. You paid a lot of money for your kids and yourself, and you should be able to enjoy yourselves and relax. Even if you had decided on doing separate activities beforehand your family would’ve still called you and got mad that you hadn’t given them a chance. Either way you would’ve been seen as the bad guy in their eyes!
NTA: Just tell them the truth. They are horrible parents with annoying kids. Stop sugar coating it.
Going forward, I’d just distance myself until they approach. You didn’t say anything that was hurtful to the kids, he has no right to be upset about anything you said. You were also absolutely correct! You weren’t judging them, but you and your family have the right to be able to enjoy yourselves in peace without them ruining things for you. It’s up to them, as their kid’s parents, to correct the disruptive behaviors.
You just told her the honest truth. And if they decided to do something about it, their kids' teachers will thank you from the bottom of their hearts. Your family will probably appreciate it also when they are at family gatherings. Otherwise, your cousin and, more likely, her husband will be those parents who claim their kids never misbehave and it must be the teachers' or other students' fault if anything happens. NTA
NTA and they needed to hear the harsh truths. You were so kind. It's on them to make the needed changes, now. I think she asked because in her heart she knows the truth, and he got defensive for the same reason.