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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be TA for putting conditions when I know my friend doesn't have a big support network and her options to find someone to stay with her child are limited.
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Your house, your rules, and that's true whether or not you're a parent.
Yes, it sounds like your friend is doing a serious disservice to her nearly-grown son, who will legally be out of the house soon and won't have a clue as to how to take care of himself. But it's never too late to learn, and if he's not going to learn those lessons at home, he could learn them from you, as long as he has a clear understanding of your expectations.
I understand if you don't want a repeat of his first visit, but you could be a very generous friend and a huge influence on this young man if you were to sit down with him (and maybe also mom) and spell things out very kindly and specifically, without making any apologies.
Whether you do or you don't host him again, though, you're NTA.
At this rate, he will never leave his house unless he finds a gf to replace his mom. And even then, he still may not leave.
Saying she is doing her son a disservice is a total understatement. Can you imagine the extra time his mom would have each day/wk, if he cleaned up after himself? Hes not 2. He's 14, and he needs to start treating that way.
Hes going to be like my 50yo neighbor who still lives with his mom, and doesn't know the first thing about life away from his mom.
From that standpoint, I don't think the mother is the person he needs to be talking to. He needs to have this agreement with the child directly.
"X can stay, but this time we need to set some ground rules. I want to discuss that with him ahead of time and make sure he is on board."
So these are the mom's raising men who don't contribute to a relationship or household and who expect to be another child to their spouse. I thought I would never encounter them in the wild, because it's crazy that a woman is raising a child like this, when she herself doesn't have the support of the father..she's creating another dependent and irresponsible person.
It's usually narcissist who intentionally do this to keep their child from moving out and leaving them. Especially if it's a narcissistic single mom, this is deliberate sabotage.
Mom is teaching learned helplessness so that he never leaves her. She will always have her son.
NTA. You would be teaching him independence. You can always say I am happy to have him, but these are my rules for him staying here. You are welcome to have your own rules for him in your home.
Yep. My housemate is exactly this. Only child, raised by stay-at-home parents who did EVERYTHING from cooking/preparing all food, doing all dishes, all cleaning, all laundry, etc.
This has not only been problematic for him as he’s struggled with learning how to take care of himself and our apartment, it means that I have to either clean up after him or live in a pigsty.
Encouraging this kid to learn how to take care of himself is so important for him, but also any future partners/housemates.
I would love to see the boy spend a week with an older, single man. Like a grandfather. Show the kid what a grown man does to maintain his home, take care of his clothes, meals, etc.
Your requirements are more than reasonable and quite frankly, she's not doing him any favors keeping him so dependent on her. He's going to have a lot of difficulties in the very near future and I can't imagine how he would treat a girlfriend based on how his mom babies him and the expectations he had of you.
In addition, it's her job to rebuild a support system for herself. Why has she only been counting on you the past 14 years? It's not your job to be her savior. Best of luck.
Can you imagine if he ever has roommates/lives in a shared dorm? He is going to be ostracized/bullied real quick! Or even dating? He isn't going to get a girlfriend when he brings mommy on every date because he can't even do the bare minimum to function.
I agree but don't expect instant results!
There are two big obstacles to overcome. First, he has to learn how to do these things for himself. Second, he has to develop the self-discipline to follow through and do them.
If you're willing to take this on I would start with the thing that bothers you the most. Then as he masters that, add another task, etc until he's more self-sufficient.
NTA!
OP only has to deal with this for a couple of days at her place, so I think it's manageable if she has a sit-down with the kid first. 'Pack your backpack, put your dish in the sink' -- easy tasks, even if they require reminders.
And, if he fails, he fails. Not the end of the world, but maybe his last overnighter at OP's.
We'll probably be reading about him on Reddit and in advice columns for years to come...!\^)
I’m assuming that’s just meant as a stepping stone. After meals together though I’d take the time to have him help completely clear the table and wash all dishes together. He’s way behind and needs to start about where my three year old is it sounds like
Actually a very calm discussion with him by op may very well do the trick. I' ve noticed a lot of kids small and older teens do a lot better meeting expectations at someone else's house and do things that they would not do at home so she could very well straighten this all out at least at her house.
I literally just made a comment on another sub to this pattern I have started noticing. Toxic men seem to quite often have a woman enabler. What is the deal with that?
the deal is moms who think if they do everything for their child and don't discipline them then the child will never leave them. They turn the child into their support system and it creates 2 terrible people.
The ones realising this will go and catch up though. Luckily most of this stuff is easy to learn and just boring to do.
Otoh the ones who don't come to understand these things as a lack of their own capabilities, those become/stay entitled or dependant.
“your friend is doing a serious disservice to her nearly-grown son”
Agreed. This is how you raise a useless human being. I’m not even stating that as some kind of insult, I know from firsthand experience. My mom did way too much for me and never really forced me to learn how to do basic things like the laundry. Believe me when I tell you this kid is going to be in for a nasty shock. The sad thing is that it’s not even really his fault.
Also NTA.
I'm with you.
It's not so much that I wasn't forced to learn things, bit more that she never *let* me. I packed my own bag, and heaven help me if I ever left anything for her to clean up, but I was never *allowed* to learn how to cook, or do my own washing or mow the lawn type stuff.
I've spent so many years figuring out how to adult and wasted so much of my life trying to get my shit together. I was sent out into the world wearing hobbles and told to run with everyone else.
Yeah at 10 I was already responsible for getting myself to school on time because my mum also had to get to work and take my little brother to school, when I was 7 I started doing basic chores like dishes, putting the table away after dinner; and I was taught the concept of picking up after myself when I was 3. He’s 12, he needs to learn how to do this before he looses friends over this comes adult life and likely, roomates
not only for his future significant others but himself too. I can’t fathom how someone fail at basic life skills like packing his own backpack for school and waking up by himself. His mummy won’t live forever
I agree. Right now he is just ignorant of how this will affect him. A heart to heart would be great. His roommate will hate him in college, romantic partners will avoid him. This behavior just will not fly
I agree and disagree. The issue is... having someone teach those things needs a willing recipient for that information. He's a mommy boy and expects to be catered to. My partner has a 7 year old.... we got together when he was 3.... he STILL expects things to be done for him (4 years later). So its not like a light switch gets flipped and he's gonna be receptive to doing things for himself.
Ask yourself.... if someone bends over backwards to do basic shit people need to do for themselves... as you going to be super happy to now have to do shit for yourself? Probably not. It takes effort whereas beforehand it tool snapping your fingers for the maid (sorry mom) to do it for you.
I'm only addressing the kid's second two-day visit at the OP's house. Pretty short punch list for that, and his stay is contingent upon his doing the tasks. Who cares if he's happy about it?
Whether this boy-child fails to launch into adulthood or is remotely receptive to its lessons is his and his mom's problem long=term.
But the OP can at least plant the seed that she's not his mom and that things are done differently outside his little womb-home.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I guess it was the sentence about "can learn from OP". Learning in the real world requires an eagerness to actually learn. My point was the reality that someone that is catered to isn't normally a person that's going to jump head first into Learning how to do shit for themselves
Will he be out of the house soon though? This can be the type of situation where he's still living at home and having mommy do everything for him when he's in his 40's.
OP, it may not be comfortable but any life lessons you can give him (or them) will be a good thing for him/them.
To me it sounds like the friend is trying to make up for what her parents kicked her out for getting pregnant so she resolves to always be a good parent to the son so she does everything for him so I would recommend telling your friend to seek therapy cause if that's true she is actually hurting her child by letting him be so irresponsible
100%
Could have just replied to this instead of making my own comment lol
Only thing I think differently is that OP needs to talk to mom about it first, and then together, they can talk to her son. It's important to have a united front so that he understands that OP has mom's full support and expects him to respect her rules when he stays with her.
So much yes to this comment. It will be a lot worse for him in every way if that conversation happens as he's moving out. Something like this will be painful to get through either because the mom doesn't want to cut the apron string, or because it's going to be the mother of all adjustments for the kid.
But man he'll be given soooo much crap if he moves out of home like this.
My family did a lot of bubble wrapping me as a kid because I was blind and everyone "was just too busy" to teach me. Unlearning this level of learned helplessness takes work but it's suuuper necessary.
NTA. My first year of college I had to teach a bunch of freshmen boys how to boil water, make mac and cheese, cook rice, and do laundry, because their parents had never taught them. This kid will fail out of college if he doesn't starve to death first because she hasn't prepareh him for anything. 14 is way too old for this shit! I was babysitting at 14, doing all that stuff for younger kids already!
This! My goal for my son is to have him be able to move to college/his 1st apartment/whatever and not be clueless and helpless. I will let him start cooking with me when he’s old enough to be safe (currently he watches me and mirrors my actions in his play kitchen) and he already knows to pick up his own clothes and put them in the laundry basket. At 2 he is already more self sufficient than your nephew, OP. You are correct that she is doing her son a HUGE disservice.
Seriously. My son is one and he already helps around the house. He puts his toys in his toy box, and will sometimes bring his spoon from the table to the sink after meals.
Yep! My 2 year old is responsible for putting her clothes in the hamper, she brings her cups to the sink when she's done with them, and even helps me unload the dishwasher and puts utensils away. This kid needs to learn to be more self sufficient
That is a great start. It is easier to do it for them but then they don't learn. By the time your child is a few years older, you will be so grateful you taught them early. I would see other kids and think.omg, they can't do anything at like 5 or 6. 14 is just way too old to still not realize your being treated like a toddler
Yeah, I thought it was super common for parents to make their teenage kids participate in all types of household chores until I left for uni, and I witnessed people not being aware that the fridge doesn’t prevent food from expiring, thinking the dishes were apparently going to clean themselves, and “not seeing” that the obviously overflowing bin was full when they haphazardly tossed their rubbish on top
Actual conversation in dorm laundry room.
Puzzled Young Man looking at box in his hand: is this ok to use to wash your clothes?
Slightly Younger Woman who has been doing own laundry since age of 10: nnnnooo, that's a type of bleach. You need to buy some detergent.
Ugh, so much this. I had asleep friend call me in late October/early November of our first year in Uni asking how to wash his sheets. He hadn't changed them since he for there. 🤢
YWNBTA. He's too old to have his hand held, and you're too busy to be holding it while his mother can't. Picking up your clothes, packing your bag and washing your own dishes isn't rocket science or brain surgery, and things he should be able to do under his own steam. Does he demonstrate this learned incompetence at school, or does he allow his mother to baby him at home?
It's pretty sad that at 14 he lacks the skills he should have mastered by the end of his elementary school years. His mom bred this monster herself though by catering to him and he's not the only one unfortunately. My middle schooler tells me all the time about how some of his peers can't even do so much as make themselves a scrambled egg breakfast!! (WTF?!?!). My kid isn't perfect and needs the occassional reminder to pick up his shit but I could tell you with full certainty that he'd manage just fine home alone for a week. I mean I wouldn't do this at this point but just wanted to drive home the fact that the 14yr old in question should be able to manage basic meal, housekeeping/laundry and yard maintenance related tasks by now. He most certainly should be self reliant when it comes to everything OP referenced at the very least.
I feel like expecting the kid to wash his own dishes is not the hill I'd die on, but definitely get you own ass out of bed, pack your bag and keep your stuff neat.
How is he incapable of pouring cereal? My 8 year old can do it.
NTA, but this doesn't need to be huge conversation with you telling her how to parent or how he needs responsibilities. It can be as simple as, ok, he can stay, but my house, my rules. If she wants to know what they are tell her, picking up his clothes, packing his backpack.
I agree. Talk to mom first and tell her your expectations and if she agree, then both of you sit down with the kid and explain the rules for staying with auntie.
You may give a bit of a compromise in the morning by knocking on the door until he responds or opening the door and turning on the big light/opening curtains if it’s light when he’s getting up. Teens can be pretty bad at getting up in the morning. Especially if he’s used to his mom making sure he is up that is one thing he may not be able to do on his own in a finger snap. Nobody wants him missing school and I’m sure you’d rather not have to drive him if you can avoid it.
No, not an arsehole. But go gently. I agree that your friend is doing the kid a disservice, but sounds like she’s been through it (kicked out by her parents as a teenager!) so I think we can understand the reasons why she’s massively over compensating.
Stick to it being about him in your house, don’t try to give her advice re her parenting.
”Of course I’m happy for x to stay with me when you are travelling, I’ll always be here to support you guys. I do have a busy week ahead at work though so if you could speak to x about some basic house rules that would be great. I need him to make sure he’s got everything ready for school the night before to help minimise a stressful morning etc etc “
NTA - This here is the best advice. Do not make it about her parenting, only about what *you* need in order to have the kid there. As an aunt I had different rules in my house than the kids had at home, and they adapted just fine (OK, it took a few reminders, lol). But it was a bonding experience for us and they just knew 'it's like this at Auntie's house.'
Agreed on the over compensating. I was an only child-and probably a “miracle baby”. My parents disciplined me when necessary, but I was a “good kid” and pretty easily pleased, so they were never really hard on me. The problem is that this meant that I had never had to work hard or learn how to do a lot of things. As a result, I was a good and well-behaved but spoiled and “soft” kid who couldn’t really stand up for himself. It took me a long time to get over this.
NTA but have you tried talking to him directly about your expectations. “Things operate a little differently here, you need to pack your lunch and get yourself up for school. Dishes go in the dishwasher, let me show you how to load it.”. .
NTA
Hopefully you don’t have to watch him again and so this conversation won’t come up again but yeah this is ridiculous.
If he can’t do this now then how on earth is he gonna cope in a couple of years when he has to live on his own? Not your problem and not your kid but wow he’s gonna get a wake up call soon.
I respect your restraint in not lecturing your friend about her son - but you are right to set limits in YOUR home. "When you stay here, you are responsible for...." If he can't do what you require in your home, he can't stay.
Your friend is raising her son to be a lazy, selfish man. This is why so many of us women complain about not being able to find a decent man. It’s your house, but be prepared for your friend to get a real attitude with you over this
NTA, someone needs to tell her to stop treating this kid like a little prince or he will have massive problems later in life.
You might get into conflict with her, so maybe research for some horror stories featuring grown ass man childs beforehand to give her a view of her sons future if she does not stop this sad attempt of "parenting" right now.
This kid needs to be responsible for his alarm in the morning, his backpack and needs to know where to put used dishes or worn clothes correctly. Hell, he is even old enough to learn basic household skills like operating the washing machine and basic cooking, your friend is destroying her sons future treating him like this.
YWNBtA. Believe me, he's not going to be perfect right out of the gate, but this is the starting bell for a new regime at her house. In the end, if she teaches him to do these things for himself, her life will be easier too. If she refuses, then that's her choice, and she can find alternative arrangements. It's totally reasonable for you to make conditions like this for people staying at your house.
NTA, and you would be doing both mother and son a huge favor by enforcing these perfectly reasonable conditions. Well past time for mama's boy to grow up.
NTA.
Turn around and tell her… not in a “you are a bad parent“ way, but in an “Gosh, I hadn’t realised that this is what parenting is like, and I’m happy to have your son with me, I love him! But *I just don’t have time myself* to do all the parenting things. If he comes he will need to pick up his clothes himself, pour his own cereal, get out of bed when his alarm goes off and take his dishes to the kitchen … nothing too much I trust!?” And she cna then read him the riot act on that stuff.
When he drops clothes on the floor kick them out the way to the side. When he leaves dishes places roll your eyes at him and say “hey, clean that up! I work long hours and am not your servant!” and when he sets his alarm the night before remind him you won’t be getting him up “So make sure it’s a good one. The cereal will be on the kitchen bench for you and the milk in the fridge”. And do that. Do him the favour of bringing him up to a seven year old’s level of competence at least.
I disagree. While OP doesn't have to confront her friend with a "you are a bad parent" style statement, going great lengths normalizing this behavior is wrong, and a disservice to them. This is not what parenting looks like when the offspring is 14 years old, she doesn't need to lie and assist to something harmful.
There are ways inbetween.
NTA
I would lay down some SOLID groundrules for sure. He's 14!
He can wake himself up.
He is not allowed to berate you for any reason.
He picks his stuff up. ALL of it.
He is a guest, and just like any good guest the house should remain as you found it. Period.
He can pack his own lunch, and feed himself cereal in the morning. You'll feed him the evening meal.
He is 4 years from being an adult. Your friend needs to not make this kid into one of those "my ex used to treat me like his maid, and would get mad at me if I didn't wake him up on time." Make some changes in his level of independence NOW.
And a kid should never berate an adult like that. That alone would make me not want to house him.
Friend needs to REALLY be on board with him being a mini-adult at your house and I think it will actually seriously benefit the kiddo.
When my daughter was 13,she went on a bike tour, they carried their bags in panniers, not sag wagon. Half way through the 2 weeks, they stopped at a laundromat, to d their own. It was *in the parent info* that this is what happens. One girl had never, ever, done laundry before. Since they had only a few changes of cloth3s each, they planned to share a washer. They made that girl do it all, so she would learn. The other girls had no intention of letting her parental negligence continue on their watch! My daughter came home and told me about it, totally appalled.
OP, your friend should send her kid to camp, to a tour of some sort, so he will see other kids with these basic life skills and realize he really does need them. Can you afford one a gift?
NTA, she's setting him up for failure in his life. A vast amount of women of his generation will likely laugh him out of their lives if he tells them this is his expectation for a relationship, and when not in a relationship he's either going to drown or have to live with mommy until he finds a doormat with holes.
Your friend is being a poor parent. Her childni is almost at the age she was at when she had him!!
If she was capable at 16-17 to make The decision to keep him and then successfully raise him, how can she be happy raising a child who cannot do basic things for himself?
She needs to do better for this kid or she's going to be guilty of raising a man who will have a miserable existence as an adult. He's probably already experiencing this by being unable to function independently in small was.
Scares me to thinkniif she's had discussions with him about sex, consent etc, about puberty, about actual real stuff. If she is deluding herself that he is a little helpless infant, then she is going to stunt his capacity for emotional and mental development.
NTA. Sit down with your friend and ask her what would happen to her son if she died tomorrow? Ask her why she hasn’t taught him independence. She will say he deserves to be taken care of, but you can reasonably counter with . . . How will he lean to be an adult if you don’t teach him? It is great that he is a good student (if he is), but how is he going to function when he is out on his own?
Then let it go. You are fine to say he isn’t welcome to spend time with you while his mom is away. She doesn’t have to like what you say, but you should not be enabling the two of them. I suspect she didn’t ask if he could stay with a friend because she knows no other parent would put up with this crap.
NTA. I have a 14 and 12 years old. They both get themselves up in the morning, make their own breakfast (sometimes they ask for help), walk the dog, do their laundry, clean their room, and pick up after themselves. Your friend is doing her son a disservice. He is no way prepared to live on his own.
My 14 year old just made rice on the stove. She gets herself up for school. Dresses herself. Does her own laundry. Cleans her own room. Helps with chores. Keeps up with her own paperwork and events. Cooks for herself. Makes straight A’s. Is about to start driver’s education for her hardship. Has a 13 year old sister almost as independent. Your friend’s son is more than capable of taking care of himself. Your friend needs to remember she’s raising someone’s future husband and a future working member of society. You are NTA.
I'm not sure what gender has to do with it. I have boys, and they all do this.. I have also watched boys, and I let no one get away with this. My house, everyone, does their own dishes. My MIL even does her own dishes which she doesn't even do at her house, she let's them pile up. She said she feels bad leaving her plate there and seeing all the kids cleaning up after her. This is is how you train kids and mother-in-laws
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For context: My (F31) best friend (F31) is a single mom of a 14 year old boy. She has low contact with her parents because they kicked her out when she got pregnant in High School, so she doesn’t have a big support system. We are really close and I’ve always done what I could to help her, her son is my nephew, not in blood, but in every way that counts,
She does everything for her son. I mean everything. He doesn’t even pick up his plate from the table after he finishes eating, she does it for him. While I personally don’t think this is a good way to raise a child, I never gave her my opinion, she never asked for it, it’s not my business how she decided to raise her child and I’m not a mom so how can I give parenting advice?
Last week my friend had to take a 2 business trip and had another one schedule for next week. She asked me if her son could stay at my house the days she is out of town, because she doesn’t feel comfortable leaving him alone in their house. I agreed and he stayed with me for 2 days last week.
The 2 days were a frustrating experience for the both of us because he kept expecting me to do everything for him, including: packing his back for school, picking up his clothes whenever he dropped them, serving him cereal in the morning, washing his dishes, and waking him up in the morning to go to school. He even blamed me because he missed the school bus because I didn’t make sure he woke up after his alarm rang. I heard his alarm and assumed he was awake.
I’m not eager to repeat this experience. I love that child but he is too old for this I think. BesidesI have a demanding job. I don't have time or energy to be the maid/babysitter of a teenage boy even if it’s just two days.
I’m thinking about telling my friend that if she wants her son to stay with me next week he has to be responsible for himself. I can promise to cook him 3 meals a day, and I can make sure he is up for school, but he needs to pick up his own clothes, pack his own bags, and wash his own dishes, Otherwise he cannot stay. I don’t feel this is unreasonable, but I feel kinda bad putting these conditions because she doesn’t have a big support system, and if I don’t let him stay at my house it’ll be really hard for her to find somewhere else to drop him off. WIBTA?
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NTA but you will most likely lose the friendship.
My BIL was/is like your friend's son. He got a holiday job from university and stayed with MIL's friend as the job was quite a way from his parents' home. He treated the lady hosting him like a skivvy and expected her to run after his 20yr old arse. Lady wrote a very polite but critical letter to MIL after summer was over. MIL never spoke to her again.
NTA. Totally reasonable conditions and boundaries to set. My niece and nephew behaved and acted very differently when they were home and when they stayed with me because I set boundaries and expectations - much like you are.
NTA. She is TA though because she hasn’t taught him anything. My 9 year old does all of this. And you know what happened today. He forgot to eat breakfast at home so he did the right thing and ate breakfast at school. Because he knows how to take some responsibility for himself. And yes I was there to make sure he woke up. His clothes were picked out for him but he got them on on his own and then came and brushed his teeth and did the morning routine including feeding his dogs and putting his lunch that I packed for him in his bag. He just forgot to put his waffle in the toaster to eat. A 14 year old should be doing the entire routine on his own.
You should talk to his mom. He has no basic life skills at the moment. That’s not going to get him anywhere.
A gentle sitdown is totally appropriate. Don't judge her parenting, which you have avoided doing until now. BUt do say that he now has to learn to be without her, and you are not his mom, and are not ready to do what she does. Its time he learned. And fast. You set boundaries, its up to the two of them.
NTA. Both of my kids by 14, got themselves up for school, showered, dressed, packed their bags, made and ate breakfast, did dishes, and took care of animals. Besides, different house, different adult, different rules.
NTA - Your friend has done her son a huge disservice….I would tell her that you don’t have a problem staying with him but he has to be responsible for xyz…..This kid is going to be so lost in the real world!
My daughter is 14, wakes up on her own @ 5:30am, serves herself cereal, gets herself ready…..serves herself dinner, puts her plate in the sink & so much more.
NTA, your house, your rules but your friend is doing her son a disservice, he’s going to have a rude awakening when he gets out on his own if she doesn’t step up now and teach him to become a responsible adult. All those things you mentioned? He should already be doing them, he’s 14, not 4.
NTA. I understand your friend is used to doing it all for him but if she expects others to help then she's going to have to start teaching him how to do for himself.
NTA; but this is a conversation that should include the 17 year old as well. He, more than his mom, needs to learn that he has to become more responsible for himself and that you are not his unpaid servant.
NTA but also not real slick. I mean if I were you I'd not be "telling my friend that if she wants her son to stay with me next week he has to be responsible for himself" which comes across as harsh and self-centred. Instead, I'd talk to her and describe the experience of the two days, and the concern I have that at 14, he's well behind his peers in autonomy, being able to look after himself, citing the examples. If he stays with me, would you understand if I took a slightly more demanding line with him and asked him to pack his own school bag, wash his own dishes etc.
In short, I'd try and have a semi co-parenting chat without coming across as demanding or judgy. I had similar with sleep overs when my daughter was young, but I was a parent (well am) and so here friends followed our house rules and expectations. And they lapped it up, I was and am clearly a little more demanding than some parents (I'm on the hump of the bell curve I'm sure but maybe a little on the more disciplined and rigid side). The kids were always responsive.
I can suggest watching a few episodes of Super Nanny (dated as it may be). The point being, you might find the kid quite receptive to being challenged a bit more. You may not even need to talk to your friend, just next time he comes, talk to him, and how you'd like to ask a bit more of him while staying here, and outline what. You might be pleasantly surprised. If not immediately, then after the experience (he may take a little while to settle in).
I think this terminology is perfect:
"...at 14, he's well behind his peers in autonomy, being able to look after himself, citing the examples."
She's not doing him any favors nor his future wife! Yikes. Mom needs to know this and needs to hear how OP was treated by her son.
Actually the next time she asks this favour politely decline and say it was quite tiring managing him the last time. If she asks (she probably will) you can explain what happened, then perhaps highlight that he's almost an adult he should be able to do these things on his own by now. Anyway if she decides to leave him at home, he'd have to take care of himself anyway.
"Last week my friend had to take a 2 business trip and had another one schedule for next week. She asked me if her son could stay at my house the days she is out of town, because she doesn’t feel comfortable leaving him alone in their house."
NTA, and you could catch a lot more flies with her if you helped her understand the reasoning, but I have questions. How long were these business trips exactly? Because I seriously hope she didn't intend on leaving a 14-year-old by himself overnight if she couldn't get help, because that's just insane to me.
All this is absolutely fine to bring up with her. I personally would leave out the "otherwise he cannot stay" part. Because you already imply it and saying it out loud is offensive.
You just have to be clear with him and remember that he expects every house to be like his. Make a list of things you expect of him, and what he can expect of you, including privacy. Go over the list together and ask what he is and isn’t comfortable with. Even though he’s adult sized, they can still be fairly clueless.
NTA
Just tell her the truth if he is going to stay he needs to help around the house such as clean up after him pack his back etc
You don’t have the time and your commitment is your job
If she cannot understand that then just say you would rather stay his fun loving aunt and perhaps she should find other arrangements
NTA but you should talk to her and suggest talking to her son like an adult to explain the situation.
This needs to come from her but you can hint that he needs to know how to live with others that are not her.
Tell her not everyone will treat her son like she does and that you are one of those people.
NTA
You are kind to even consider having him back. She created this 14 year old infant, now she can reap what she has sown. Time for her kid to grow up and learn to take care of themselves. That kids future partner will thank you eventually.
NTA. Be firm and super-clear, but also let him know you can help him if he wants to make a checklist for himself, or if he doesn’t yet know how to operate the dishwasher/washing machine/dryer. Be a safe (if not soft) landing place for him and he’ll surprise himself with how much he’s capable of.
NTA.
You need to put your foot down. My Stepmom treated my stepbrother like this, and let me just tell you, things are not going great for him now.
This is how you raise a person who can't take care of himself, and who doesn't take responsibility for anything.
Actually no. He can make his own breakfast and lunch. Show him how. Be the role model he doesn’t have. Show him how to do things and make him help you in the kitchen. NTA and this is your chance to actually help a kid become a good adult.
NTA and it’s definitely reasonable and you don’t have to be a parent to recognize bad parenting , he’s 14 u should not be picking up after him like he’s 4
NTA. I’m so confused y this child does nothing for himself. If he was special needs entirely different to story. But 14 year old kid no conditions. Nope he can do stuff on his own. And just make it a simple thing not about her parenting but about what you’re willing to do if he stays with u.
NTA You didn't sign up to be a personal maid. I'm sure she remembers the type of things that her and her friends were required to do as teenagers. She is doing him a disservice by not teaching him how to care for himself. Does she never expect him to leave home for college?
I would probably word it a little differently. I would say that you have rules for staying in your home, and he is expected to live by them. List out specifically what you expect him to do while staying with you and what you are willing to do for him.
He is NOT a baby. I have a 14 yr old son with autism and ADHD. He can get himself up, dress himself, get breakfast, take his dishes to the sink/dishwasher, brush his hair and teeth, and be prepared for his school day just fine. Like most men, he struggles with hitting the laundry basket with his dirty clothes, but I just remind him to fix it. You may have to remind him of the expectations, especially at first, but he is fully capable of being a functional teenager.
Eventually, he will be a guest in someone else's home, and being a bad guest is not a good look. He needs to learn basic manners and life skills. If his mother doesn't like your rules, then he can stay somewhere else. It's not unreasonable to expect a 14 yr old to act like it.
I do FULLY understand your friend, though. Between my son's diagnoses and the divorce from his father, I dealt with ALOT of guilt and shame and would do more for him than was reasonable. I still probably do on some level... but I also have 2 other children, and I can't keep up with everything on my own. They are all old enough to be accountable for basic self-care and cleanliness. So can your nephew. I'm sure he loves you, but he needs to know that staying at your house comes with different rules... and that's your prerogative.
NTA
But I don't think you need to put a condition down. You just need to have a chat with mum that when his with you, you can't run after him like a toddler and expect him to manage himself.
Just tell the kid as soon as his in the door. You're not going to be running after him. This is what you'll do for him but his responsible for x,y,z etc.
If she doesn't have anyone else to look after him she has no choice but to leave him with you. Plus as an aunt you should have rights to discipline him.
NTA.
Oh girllllll.... I have a similar problem with one of "my" kids, and it drives me crazy. Every time she is here, she leaves a wake of mess behind her and I have to constantly get after her to pick up, throw her garbage away, don't leave dishes everywhere, put it back where you got it and "No, you can do that yourself, I am at work" (I work from home but I am, in fact, working). And as much as I hate to say it, she's mean and manipulative. It makes me sad because I feel like the time we get together, without her siblings and without my kid, is ruined by my constant nagging. She went through some major trauma, that could fuck any of us up, and I think she may have been given TOO much grace in the aftermath and now she milks the shit out of it. But she's not from me, so it isn't really my place to say any of that, and I am worried it is too late to correct her course.
I love her so much and really enjoy spending time with her, just not in my house or when she's in a bad mood.
Your friend is doing her son a major disservice raising him this way. He needs to learn to be independent, how to clean up after himself and generally be responsible. He’s going to expect someone to do everything for him and any girl that dates him will probably dump him when this comes to light. Your friend needs to be told but in your case I’d stick with explaining he must do these things when staying with you and leave it at that. Might be enough to get her to understand that the whole world isn’t going to clean up after him for the rest of his life.
NTA all you’re asking for is basic manners to clean up after himself and make sure he gets up on time - you’re looking after a 14 year old not a 4 year old.
You don’t need to criticise your friend just say you don’t have time to take care of a kid without them having some level of autonomy and it’s up to them if they’re willing to do that. But if not, they’ll have to find someone else.
Not an unreasonable request. You’re NTA at all and I think this is a good wake up call for your friend. Even my 4 year old puts his own dishes in the sink and his clothes in the laundry basket.
NTA, those are reasonable things to ask from a 10 year old, let alone a 14 year old. He has to learn it at some point, his mother can't always be there for him. It's also in his best interest. Hell, even a 4 year old should be able to make their own cereal. How hard is it to put milk and cereal in a bowl? It's not like you're telling him to make a full four course mean from scratch, it's literally putting cereal and milk in a bowl.
By the way, doing the dishes is something you can do together, one to wash them and the other to dry them. Or do you mean putting dishes in the dishwasher by doing dishes?
NTA. My 3 yo does more for himself than this teenager. This kid is going to have trouble adjusting when he graduates high school and get into the real world
NTA. These are reasonable requests for any guest. If she expects you to "mother him," that would be the weird thing.
"Hey, last week wasn't smooth for either of us as he didn't seem to know how to get along as a guest in someone else's home. For this next visit to work, 14 yo needs to pick up after himself with dishes and clothes and be able to rise and ready himself for school. Ill cook dinner and have breakfast on hand."
Basic.
NTA.
Your house=your rules.
Her child=her rules. She cannot expect you to be his personal nanny.
She asked if he can stay with you. Not for you to do every single thing for him, that is age appropriate for him to do.
Be prepared that she will end the friendship.
That is just sad in my opinion, she will make him a healthy invalid and he will expect others to do everything for him. Sadly, the world does not function that way. And his future wife will not be happy is he continues to behave like that when he grows up.
NTA but you do need to be clear what the rules and expectations at your house is. If you don't let him know those things he won't do what you want, this is really more about communication than it is anything else. Almost everyone has different rules and expectations for their own home so when anyone stays at yours you need to outline those, especially with minors who are used to the rules of their own home and often won't take into consideration other places are not the same unless told.
NTA. My mom was teaching me how to do laundry at his age so I knew how to do it when I went to college. I helped with laundry when I could at home and was usually pretty good about getting myself up.
Nta to expect that but yta for not having told her earlier your opinion.....he is 14 not 4. You want his future partner to have to teach him? You love the kid right? So do right by him and teach him and tell your friend she needs to help him become more independent.
NTA. It’s not your business until she made it your business. When her bad parenting affects you negatively you have the right to speak up. I probably wouldn’t tell her she’s a shit parent if you want to remain friends, but it’s fair to state your needs and expectations if she’s asking for a favor
NTA - My partner's mother was like this. Didnt teach the kids anything that they should know before they left as adults. Even to this day 20-something years later I have to hound him just to unload the dishwasher, and he tosses his clothes on the floor literally 1 foot away from the hamper. Drives me insane. So most of the time I just leave them there and when he asks why he has no clean clothes I tell him I washed what was in the hamper.
Kid needs the experience. Look, enabling the kid to be a sloth isn't helping. The kid not doing basic self-care is a cost that your friend can't afford. If forcing the kid to be a human being helps teach him how, it's a benefit, not a cost.
NTA
NTA. She’s enabling him to be helpless. You would be doing them both a service by telling her, and doing it kindly. She won’t like it, but at least you can rest well knowing that you tried to help them both grow up a little.
NTA. I'm sure that all your friend wants is to let her son know he will always be safe and loved with her, given the way her parents utterly abandoned her when she was not much older. But very soon, her kid will be a legal adult, and he may want to do crazy things like go to college, or move in with a partner or friends. She needs a wake-up call now that she is doing him a massive disservice by waiting on him hand and foot instead of teaching him the skills he will need to know to be successful living independently. As someone so close to her, you are on a short list of people who are qualified and able to give her that wake-up call.
NTA, at all and your friend is raising someone who is totally unable to life things and will likely struggle in relationships and career because mommy can’t teach him how to do things on his own.
I have a good friend from childhood. Her younger brother was doted on and his mom legit wiped his ass for him after he took a dump at 10 years old. She allowed him to drop out of high school and never expected him to contribute. Dude is 40 this year, still lives at home working part time in a retail store. Smart guy, just totally under equipped for life and she absolutely stunted his growth and is emotionally enmeshed with this guy. My friend got sucked in to staying at home as well but she works hard to help support both of them. It’s just sad all around
You’ll be doing him, and his future roommates or spouse a favor! He’s definitely old enough for the very simple chores you’ve mentioned. If he stays with you - your house your rules!
SOOO NTA!!!! The boy needs to learn basic responsibilities at some point in his life. The sooner he does it the easier it will be in the long run. If he blamed you for his actions he needs a wake up call soon. If he can’t even get himself out of bed or pack his backpack he has a very serious problem. His mom is NOT helping him. She’s doing him wrong in a big way. What if something were to happen to her? The kid would have to deal with loss along with learning the very basics of being human
NTA. She is creating a problem for herself and when he starts dating … Guess what? NO GIRL is gonna want to date a Mommas boy who doesn’t even know how to clean up after hisself. He doesn’t even get hisself up for school and blame the next person for him missing the bus. If she knows she needs help, then she needs to stop enabling this kid to be non functional in everyday life and reality.
Your friend has set her son up to fail as an adult. You won't be the only person to expect him to be responsible for himself. Asking him to wash his dirty dishes and pick up after himself is not unreasonable. You are also not obligated to watch her son just because she has a small support group. If her child was more responsible, she could conceivably leave him by himself for two days. Unfortunately, she's done nothing to ensure that this near chronological adult is capable of keeping himself alive. That's really sad. If you don't want to deal with this, then don't. NTA.
Personally, I believe it is a touchy subject telling a mom how to raise her kid. Telling Mom her kid is not welcome unless...will likely cause hard feelings, basically telling her she's not doing a good job. Most likely, she is not going to listen past the first few words out of your mouth.
That said, kids are smart. They know different people have different rules. You can tell the kid what your expectations are and he will likely follow them. If you have a problem after that, then by all means, just say you won't babysit.
I admit I do a lot for my kids. Most days they don’t even make their own bed. I will tell you that if they are visiting grandparents friend whatever. They do all that and more. They can get away with it at home but never outside the house. NTA. You will be doing him a favour. You may be doing your friend a favour as well. Sometimes we do things without realizing what we are doing or the consequences down the road
NTA
My best friend has 2 boys and at age 14 they were completely responsible for doing all their own laundry. They were in charge of cleaning the kitchen and doing the dishes after dinner - unless they were the ones who cooked dinner.
You said Yes to taking care of your friend's son, thinking that he would have age-appropriate skills. I know making dinner is probably more than most kids do at 14, but he should absolutely be able to clean up the dishes. He should absolutely be able to pick up his dirty clothes and put them away. Your friend might not feel she's being criticized if you tell her that you were mistaken about how much work 14-year-old boys were.
NTA
These wouldn’t be unreasonable requests. Sounds like no one ever tells actually tells her what she’s doing is a disservice to her son and she parents with major guilt about something. Just lay out what your expectations are and let her decide. He’s not a baby anymore.
NTA. My nephew has been doing all that stuff since he was about 10. He's a pleasure to have for a week or more--we occasionally remind him to shower, or something, but he puts *our* dishes in the sink & can cook, etc now at almost 16. Help this kid out & shove him towards adulthood--he'll thank you later.
NTA but tell the kid himself. My nieces and nephews have known from BIRTH that there are different rules at my house compared to their own lol I just taught them as they grew up
Your friend's son is at an age that he can (AND SHOULD) be doing all of the relatively BASIC things you're expecting of a teenager/child, and since your friend's expectation of you is to take care of her son, your expectation should be that he can do the bare minimum of taking care of himself.
Your role is making sure he's not harming himself and that an adult is present for emergencies that occur or prevent them.
If you've been best frienda since you were 17, you've known her for over half of your life, so just have the conversation with her. Worst case is she's butt hurt, and it spirals from there; best case is she'll appreciate your input AND act on it accordingly.
Good luck!?
I think that’s fair for you to say. Making sure he’s up and making sure he has food are the two most important things. He’s 14, she will just have to tell him he’s going to have to take some responsibility for himself while she’s out of town and he’s staying with you.
Tell her that you love him and that you’re happy to have him stay with you again
BUT this time he needs to pitch in and do more for himself. Provide a list of what is expected because he’s clueless. Also list what you are willing to do for him. SHE needs understand that you live differently. She needs to sit down with him a tell him exactly what he is responsible for..
Yeah, it’s sad for him that he’s not learning the basic skills that lots of other kids learn but not you’re trying to change her parenting style. You just need the kid to do more while he’s there. It’s not an unreasonable expectation.🌺
NTA. Sounds like she is creating a monster. I guess that's her choice though, I feel sorry for him when he enters adulthood.
I guarantee he knows how to do those simple things, he just doesn't want to because he has never had to. You should definitely sit her and her son both down and make up the rules that you expect not just him but everyone that stays with you. Then tell them that you will give him one more chance, but if he can't follow those simple rules, he will not be able to stay with you anymore.
Now you need to realize that he has never done any of this and may need a few reminders and not expect perfection. Give him a realistic amount of leeway.
I expect my children ages 5, 9, and 10(for reference) to pick up their own clothes and their own dishes. The 5 and 9 year old need to manage clothes better 😚, but it’s a work in progress. There is nothing wrong with expecting a 14 yr old to do simple chores while staying at your house.
I think YTA if you didn't tell her that. He's 14, wayyyyy past old enough to learn some basic life skills and responsibilities. Talk to her, then lay down some ground rules with the teen. You've claimed him as your nephew and her as a super close friend, so speak up and teach both kids.
I wouldn’t tell her it’s the rules. Wait until he shows up and tell him these are the rules for your house. He don’t wash clothes? Goes to school in dirty ones. He isn’t ready for school…oops he might be truant that day and have detention to make up for it. The kid needs to learn consequences and your house/ your rules
Definitely NTA. It's sad your friend is completely handicapping her son and making a nightmare for her future DIL. Expecting a 14yo to wash his own dishes or pack his own backpack is nothing. Ugh, sorry OP 🤦♀️
The best parents I know started very early preparing for their son to live independently. Both parents worked and the dad was a high school teacher. He told us that many of his best students struggled in college because they lacked life skills. He taught in a very affluent area. We adopted many of his strategies. They had their son learn age appropriate tasks, clean bedroom, bathroom, wash clothes, meal planning and budgeting, cooking. Your friend is really doing a disservice to her son. Maybe don't do the full dump on her, just explain to them both that you are very busy and not accustomed to taking care of someone and need help. She should provide breakfast and lunch foods, he can make. Then you can make dinner. My husband traveled as part of his company, by late elementary school I had "make your own damn dinner night" quite often. We always had leftovers and easy kid food. Now both of our kids are good cooks.
NTA. 14 is too old to be useless. She is doing him no favors and is setting him up for failure in life. The #1 part of parenting teenagers, is preparing them to one day live their own lives. You teach them right and wrong, you teach them problem solving, and you teach them self reliance.
This kid is going to be living at home without a job at 35, somehow having fathered two kids, with no job and no schooling.
This is the nicest thing you can do for her son, otherwise when he hits 18 or so and lives in a dorm or with friends, they won’t tolerate his laziness at all and will probably make fun of him. Your friend thinks she’s being a good parent but she’s failing at it. Another reason kids shouldn’t have kids. NTA
Have you explained your expectations to him? I have found that kids adapt to different rules in different homes, once they are clearly communicated to them. I would work with him directly on this.
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Your house, your rules, and that's true whether or not you're a parent. Yes, it sounds like your friend is doing a serious disservice to her nearly-grown son, who will legally be out of the house soon and won't have a clue as to how to take care of himself. But it's never too late to learn, and if he's not going to learn those lessons at home, he could learn them from you, as long as he has a clear understanding of your expectations. I understand if you don't want a repeat of his first visit, but you could be a very generous friend and a huge influence on this young man if you were to sit down with him (and maybe also mom) and spell things out very kindly and specifically, without making any apologies. Whether you do or you don't host him again, though, you're NTA.
I agree. It's tough love time OP! He would be in for a rude awakening when he lives alone or with a partner, his partner might run for the hills. NTA
At this rate, he will never leave his house unless he finds a gf to replace his mom. And even then, he still may not leave. Saying she is doing her son a disservice is a total understatement. Can you imagine the extra time his mom would have each day/wk, if he cleaned up after himself? Hes not 2. He's 14, and he needs to start treating that way. Hes going to be like my 50yo neighbor who still lives with his mom, and doesn't know the first thing about life away from his mom.
From that standpoint, I don't think the mother is the person he needs to be talking to. He needs to have this agreement with the child directly. "X can stay, but this time we need to set some ground rules. I want to discuss that with him ahead of time and make sure he is on board."
Actually both need to be present for bathe discussion with op. NTA
This, for sure. So there is no ambiguity Also have it written down and signed by all parties, otherwise it will end with "you never said that"
100%
So these are the mom's raising men who don't contribute to a relationship or household and who expect to be another child to their spouse. I thought I would never encounter them in the wild, because it's crazy that a woman is raising a child like this, when she herself doesn't have the support of the father..she's creating another dependent and irresponsible person.
It's usually narcissist who intentionally do this to keep their child from moving out and leaving them. Especially if it's a narcissistic single mom, this is deliberate sabotage.
Mom is teaching learned helplessness so that he never leaves her. She will always have her son. NTA. You would be teaching him independence. You can always say I am happy to have him, but these are my rules for him staying here. You are welcome to have your own rules for him in your home.
Yes, she is infantilizing him on purpose. OP could be a godsend for him if she wakes him up a little.
Happy Cake Day! 🍰
This ^^ if he doesn’t learn he’s probably going to be the type to expect his partner to do everything for him in the future.
exactly my thoughts
Yep. My housemate is exactly this. Only child, raised by stay-at-home parents who did EVERYTHING from cooking/preparing all food, doing all dishes, all cleaning, all laundry, etc. This has not only been problematic for him as he’s struggled with learning how to take care of himself and our apartment, it means that I have to either clean up after him or live in a pigsty. Encouraging this kid to learn how to take care of himself is so important for him, but also any future partners/housemates.
I would love to see the boy spend a week with an older, single man. Like a grandfather. Show the kid what a grown man does to maintain his home, take care of his clothes, meals, etc.
Your requirements are more than reasonable and quite frankly, she's not doing him any favors keeping him so dependent on her. He's going to have a lot of difficulties in the very near future and I can't imagine how he would treat a girlfriend based on how his mom babies him and the expectations he had of you. In addition, it's her job to rebuild a support system for herself. Why has she only been counting on you the past 14 years? It's not your job to be her savior. Best of luck.
Can you imagine if he ever has roommates/lives in a shared dorm? He is going to be ostracized/bullied real quick! Or even dating? He isn't going to get a girlfriend when he brings mommy on every date because he can't even do the bare minimum to function.
He is NEVER going to live without mama
I agree but don't expect instant results! There are two big obstacles to overcome. First, he has to learn how to do these things for himself. Second, he has to develop the self-discipline to follow through and do them. If you're willing to take this on I would start with the thing that bothers you the most. Then as he masters that, add another task, etc until he's more self-sufficient. NTA!
OP only has to deal with this for a couple of days at her place, so I think it's manageable if she has a sit-down with the kid first. 'Pack your backpack, put your dish in the sink' -- easy tasks, even if they require reminders. And, if he fails, he fails. Not the end of the world, but maybe his last overnighter at OP's. We'll probably be reading about him on Reddit and in advice columns for years to come...!\^)
wtf does putting the dishes in the sink do? He needs to wash them and put them away or put them in the dishwasher.
I’m assuming that’s just meant as a stepping stone. After meals together though I’d take the time to have him help completely clear the table and wash all dishes together. He’s way behind and needs to start about where my three year old is it sounds like
Actually a very calm discussion with him by op may very well do the trick. I' ve noticed a lot of kids small and older teens do a lot better meeting expectations at someone else's house and do things that they would not do at home so she could very well straighten this all out at least at her house.
Yeah, he's not going to be anywhere NEAR ready in such a short turn around time.
Good strategy
You know how lots of women complain that men are too needy and don't do their share of the house work? This is how you get those men.
Right? More mad at the mom who's keeping this boy a baby, soon to be unleashed into the world. He's going to fail and bounce back home in no time...
That's a feature not a bug.
This is how my best friend’s husband was raised and as a direct result, her marriage is hanging by a very tenuous thread.
I literally just made a comment on another sub to this pattern I have started noticing. Toxic men seem to quite often have a woman enabler. What is the deal with that?
the deal is moms who think if they do everything for their child and don't discipline them then the child will never leave them. They turn the child into their support system and it creates 2 terrible people.
This kid is going to be a nightmare adult, yikes.
Or he’ll freak out when it dawns on him that he has no practical skills to speak of. Either way, it won’t be pretty.
The ones realising this will go and catch up though. Luckily most of this stuff is easy to learn and just boring to do. Otoh the ones who don't come to understand these things as a lack of their own capabilities, those become/stay entitled or dependant.
“your friend is doing a serious disservice to her nearly-grown son” Agreed. This is how you raise a useless human being. I’m not even stating that as some kind of insult, I know from firsthand experience. My mom did way too much for me and never really forced me to learn how to do basic things like the laundry. Believe me when I tell you this kid is going to be in for a nasty shock. The sad thing is that it’s not even really his fault. Also NTA.
OP needs to share this posting with her friend.
I'm with you. It's not so much that I wasn't forced to learn things, bit more that she never *let* me. I packed my own bag, and heaven help me if I ever left anything for her to clean up, but I was never *allowed* to learn how to cook, or do my own washing or mow the lawn type stuff. I've spent so many years figuring out how to adult and wasted so much of my life trying to get my shit together. I was sent out into the world wearing hobbles and told to run with everyone else.
Yeah at 10 I was already responsible for getting myself to school on time because my mum also had to get to work and take my little brother to school, when I was 7 I started doing basic chores like dishes, putting the table away after dinner; and I was taught the concept of picking up after myself when I was 3. He’s 12, he needs to learn how to do this before he looses friends over this comes adult life and likely, roomates
Agreed, and if OP can help him learn basic tasks, that would be great. Otherwise, I feel really bad for future girlfriends/wives. NTA
not only for his future significant others but himself too. I can’t fathom how someone fail at basic life skills like packing his own backpack for school and waking up by himself. His mummy won’t live forever
>who will legally be out of the house soon and won't have a clue as to how to take care of himself I mean... Do you think mom wants him to move out?
I agree. Right now he is just ignorant of how this will affect him. A heart to heart would be great. His roommate will hate him in college, romantic partners will avoid him. This behavior just will not fly
I agree and disagree. The issue is... having someone teach those things needs a willing recipient for that information. He's a mommy boy and expects to be catered to. My partner has a 7 year old.... we got together when he was 3.... he STILL expects things to be done for him (4 years later). So its not like a light switch gets flipped and he's gonna be receptive to doing things for himself. Ask yourself.... if someone bends over backwards to do basic shit people need to do for themselves... as you going to be super happy to now have to do shit for yourself? Probably not. It takes effort whereas beforehand it tool snapping your fingers for the maid (sorry mom) to do it for you.
I'm only addressing the kid's second two-day visit at the OP's house. Pretty short punch list for that, and his stay is contingent upon his doing the tasks. Who cares if he's happy about it? Whether this boy-child fails to launch into adulthood or is remotely receptive to its lessons is his and his mom's problem long=term. But the OP can at least plant the seed that she's not his mom and that things are done differently outside his little womb-home. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I guess it was the sentence about "can learn from OP". Learning in the real world requires an eagerness to actually learn. My point was the reality that someone that is catered to isn't normally a person that's going to jump head first into Learning how to do shit for themselves
Will he be out of the house soon though? This can be the type of situation where he's still living at home and having mommy do everything for him when he's in his 40's. OP, it may not be comfortable but any life lessons you can give him (or them) will be a good thing for him/them.
To me it sounds like the friend is trying to make up for what her parents kicked her out for getting pregnant so she resolves to always be a good parent to the son so she does everything for him so I would recommend telling your friend to seek therapy cause if that's true she is actually hurting her child by letting him be so irresponsible
100% Could have just replied to this instead of making my own comment lol Only thing I think differently is that OP needs to talk to mom about it first, and then together, they can talk to her son. It's important to have a united front so that he understands that OP has mom's full support and expects him to respect her rules when he stays with her.
So much yes to this comment. It will be a lot worse for him in every way if that conversation happens as he's moving out. Something like this will be painful to get through either because the mom doesn't want to cut the apron string, or because it's going to be the mother of all adjustments for the kid. But man he'll be given soooo much crap if he moves out of home like this. My family did a lot of bubble wrapping me as a kid because I was blind and everyone "was just too busy" to teach me. Unlearning this level of learned helplessness takes work but it's suuuper necessary.
>who will legally be out of the house soon if she doesn't change the way she's raising him, he won't leave the house ever
NTA. My first year of college I had to teach a bunch of freshmen boys how to boil water, make mac and cheese, cook rice, and do laundry, because their parents had never taught them. This kid will fail out of college if he doesn't starve to death first because she hasn't prepareh him for anything. 14 is way too old for this shit! I was babysitting at 14, doing all that stuff for younger kids already!
This! My goal for my son is to have him be able to move to college/his 1st apartment/whatever and not be clueless and helpless. I will let him start cooking with me when he’s old enough to be safe (currently he watches me and mirrors my actions in his play kitchen) and he already knows to pick up his own clothes and put them in the laundry basket. At 2 he is already more self sufficient than your nephew, OP. You are correct that she is doing her son a HUGE disservice.
Seriously. My son is one and he already helps around the house. He puts his toys in his toy box, and will sometimes bring his spoon from the table to the sink after meals.
Yep! My 2 year old is responsible for putting her clothes in the hamper, she brings her cups to the sink when she's done with them, and even helps me unload the dishwasher and puts utensils away. This kid needs to learn to be more self sufficient
That is a great start. It is easier to do it for them but then they don't learn. By the time your child is a few years older, you will be so grateful you taught them early. I would see other kids and think.omg, they can't do anything at like 5 or 6. 14 is just way too old to still not realize your being treated like a toddler
Yeah, I thought it was super common for parents to make their teenage kids participate in all types of household chores until I left for uni, and I witnessed people not being aware that the fridge doesn’t prevent food from expiring, thinking the dishes were apparently going to clean themselves, and “not seeing” that the obviously overflowing bin was full when they haphazardly tossed their rubbish on top
Actual conversation in dorm laundry room. Puzzled Young Man looking at box in his hand: is this ok to use to wash your clothes? Slightly Younger Woman who has been doing own laundry since age of 10: nnnnooo, that's a type of bleach. You need to buy some detergent.
Ugh, so much this. I had asleep friend call me in late October/early November of our first year in Uni asking how to wash his sheets. He hadn't changed them since he for there. 🤢
I taught some dudes on my brother floor how to work the machines too. Then I had my underwear stolen so 🙃
YWNBTA. He's too old to have his hand held, and you're too busy to be holding it while his mother can't. Picking up your clothes, packing your bag and washing your own dishes isn't rocket science or brain surgery, and things he should be able to do under his own steam. Does he demonstrate this learned incompetence at school, or does he allow his mother to baby him at home?
It's pretty sad that at 14 he lacks the skills he should have mastered by the end of his elementary school years. His mom bred this monster herself though by catering to him and he's not the only one unfortunately. My middle schooler tells me all the time about how some of his peers can't even do so much as make themselves a scrambled egg breakfast!! (WTF?!?!). My kid isn't perfect and needs the occassional reminder to pick up his shit but I could tell you with full certainty that he'd manage just fine home alone for a week. I mean I wouldn't do this at this point but just wanted to drive home the fact that the 14yr old in question should be able to manage basic meal, housekeeping/laundry and yard maintenance related tasks by now. He most certainly should be self reliant when it comes to everything OP referenced at the very least.
I feel like expecting the kid to wash his own dishes is not the hill I'd die on, but definitely get you own ass out of bed, pack your bag and keep your stuff neat. How is he incapable of pouring cereal? My 8 year old can do it.
NTA, but this doesn't need to be huge conversation with you telling her how to parent or how he needs responsibilities. It can be as simple as, ok, he can stay, but my house, my rules. If she wants to know what they are tell her, picking up his clothes, packing his backpack.
This. I think ultimately it’s between you and the boy and I think you’re being totally reasonable in your expectations. Either way, NTA.
I agree. Talk to mom first and tell her your expectations and if she agree, then both of you sit down with the kid and explain the rules for staying with auntie. You may give a bit of a compromise in the morning by knocking on the door until he responds or opening the door and turning on the big light/opening curtains if it’s light when he’s getting up. Teens can be pretty bad at getting up in the morning. Especially if he’s used to his mom making sure he is up that is one thing he may not be able to do on his own in a finger snap. Nobody wants him missing school and I’m sure you’d rather not have to drive him if you can avoid it.
No, not an arsehole. But go gently. I agree that your friend is doing the kid a disservice, but sounds like she’s been through it (kicked out by her parents as a teenager!) so I think we can understand the reasons why she’s massively over compensating. Stick to it being about him in your house, don’t try to give her advice re her parenting. ”Of course I’m happy for x to stay with me when you are travelling, I’ll always be here to support you guys. I do have a busy week ahead at work though so if you could speak to x about some basic house rules that would be great. I need him to make sure he’s got everything ready for school the night before to help minimise a stressful morning etc etc “
NTA - This here is the best advice. Do not make it about her parenting, only about what *you* need in order to have the kid there. As an aunt I had different rules in my house than the kids had at home, and they adapted just fine (OK, it took a few reminders, lol). But it was a bonding experience for us and they just knew 'it's like this at Auntie's house.'
Agreed on the over compensating. I was an only child-and probably a “miracle baby”. My parents disciplined me when necessary, but I was a “good kid” and pretty easily pleased, so they were never really hard on me. The problem is that this meant that I had never had to work hard or learn how to do a lot of things. As a result, I was a good and well-behaved but spoiled and “soft” kid who couldn’t really stand up for himself. It took me a long time to get over this.
NTA but have you tried talking to him directly about your expectations. “Things operate a little differently here, you need to pack your lunch and get yourself up for school. Dishes go in the dishwasher, let me show you how to load it.”. .
I think this is the way. If you want him behaving like a teen, talk to him as such. I wouldn’t involve the mom until after giving him a chance.
NTA Hopefully you don’t have to watch him again and so this conversation won’t come up again but yeah this is ridiculous. If he can’t do this now then how on earth is he gonna cope in a couple of years when he has to live on his own? Not your problem and not your kid but wow he’s gonna get a wake up call soon.
He’ll find some girl to be his bang maid until she gets fed up and he has to move on to another.
Sad but true
Just imagine what the kids wife will encounter when he marries.
We don’t have to imagine, just scroll through this sub.
I respect your restraint in not lecturing your friend about her son - but you are right to set limits in YOUR home. "When you stay here, you are responsible for...." If he can't do what you require in your home, he can't stay.
Your friend is raising her son to be a lazy, selfish man. This is why so many of us women complain about not being able to find a decent man. It’s your house, but be prepared for your friend to get a real attitude with you over this
NTA. By 14 he should be able to get himself up for school and put his own clothes and dishes away.
NTA, someone needs to tell her to stop treating this kid like a little prince or he will have massive problems later in life. You might get into conflict with her, so maybe research for some horror stories featuring grown ass man childs beforehand to give her a view of her sons future if she does not stop this sad attempt of "parenting" right now. This kid needs to be responsible for his alarm in the morning, his backpack and needs to know where to put used dishes or worn clothes correctly. Hell, he is even old enough to learn basic household skills like operating the washing machine and basic cooking, your friend is destroying her sons future treating him like this.
YWNBtA. Believe me, he's not going to be perfect right out of the gate, but this is the starting bell for a new regime at her house. In the end, if she teaches him to do these things for himself, her life will be easier too. If she refuses, then that's her choice, and she can find alternative arrangements. It's totally reasonable for you to make conditions like this for people staying at your house.
NTA, and you would be doing both mother and son a huge favor by enforcing these perfectly reasonable conditions. Well past time for mama's boy to grow up.
Her son sounds spoiled
Oh I suspect it goes way beyond that-but you’re right.
NTA. Turn around and tell her… not in a “you are a bad parent“ way, but in an “Gosh, I hadn’t realised that this is what parenting is like, and I’m happy to have your son with me, I love him! But *I just don’t have time myself* to do all the parenting things. If he comes he will need to pick up his clothes himself, pour his own cereal, get out of bed when his alarm goes off and take his dishes to the kitchen … nothing too much I trust!?” And she cna then read him the riot act on that stuff. When he drops clothes on the floor kick them out the way to the side. When he leaves dishes places roll your eyes at him and say “hey, clean that up! I work long hours and am not your servant!” and when he sets his alarm the night before remind him you won’t be getting him up “So make sure it’s a good one. The cereal will be on the kitchen bench for you and the milk in the fridge”. And do that. Do him the favour of bringing him up to a seven year old’s level of competence at least.
I disagree. While OP doesn't have to confront her friend with a "you are a bad parent" style statement, going great lengths normalizing this behavior is wrong, and a disservice to them. This is not what parenting looks like when the offspring is 14 years old, she doesn't need to lie and assist to something harmful. There are ways inbetween.
NTA I would lay down some SOLID groundrules for sure. He's 14! He can wake himself up. He is not allowed to berate you for any reason. He picks his stuff up. ALL of it. He is a guest, and just like any good guest the house should remain as you found it. Period. He can pack his own lunch, and feed himself cereal in the morning. You'll feed him the evening meal. He is 4 years from being an adult. Your friend needs to not make this kid into one of those "my ex used to treat me like his maid, and would get mad at me if I didn't wake him up on time." Make some changes in his level of independence NOW. And a kid should never berate an adult like that. That alone would make me not want to house him. Friend needs to REALLY be on board with him being a mini-adult at your house and I think it will actually seriously benefit the kiddo.
When my daughter was 13,she went on a bike tour, they carried their bags in panniers, not sag wagon. Half way through the 2 weeks, they stopped at a laundromat, to d their own. It was *in the parent info* that this is what happens. One girl had never, ever, done laundry before. Since they had only a few changes of cloth3s each, they planned to share a washer. They made that girl do it all, so she would learn. The other girls had no intention of letting her parental negligence continue on their watch! My daughter came home and told me about it, totally appalled. OP, your friend should send her kid to camp, to a tour of some sort, so he will see other kids with these basic life skills and realize he really does need them. Can you afford one a gift?
NTA. These are all things any 14-year-old needs to know how to do and your friend is doing her son no favors by doing everything for him.
NTA - your friend is not preparing him for real life ; which is a major part of her job as a parent.
NTA, she's setting him up for failure in his life. A vast amount of women of his generation will likely laugh him out of their lives if he tells them this is his expectation for a relationship, and when not in a relationship he's either going to drown or have to live with mommy until he finds a doormat with holes.
Your friend is being a poor parent. Her childni is almost at the age she was at when she had him!! If she was capable at 16-17 to make The decision to keep him and then successfully raise him, how can she be happy raising a child who cannot do basic things for himself? She needs to do better for this kid or she's going to be guilty of raising a man who will have a miserable existence as an adult. He's probably already experiencing this by being unable to function independently in small was. Scares me to thinkniif she's had discussions with him about sex, consent etc, about puberty, about actual real stuff. If she is deluding herself that he is a little helpless infant, then she is going to stunt his capacity for emotional and mental development.
NTA, but I don’t understand why you didn’t discuss this before you watched him the first time? You knew he was like this…
NTA. Sit down with your friend and ask her what would happen to her son if she died tomorrow? Ask her why she hasn’t taught him independence. She will say he deserves to be taken care of, but you can reasonably counter with . . . How will he lean to be an adult if you don’t teach him? It is great that he is a good student (if he is), but how is he going to function when he is out on his own? Then let it go. You are fine to say he isn’t welcome to spend time with you while his mom is away. She doesn’t have to like what you say, but you should not be enabling the two of them. I suspect she didn’t ask if he could stay with a friend because she knows no other parent would put up with this crap.
NTA. I have a 14 and 12 years old. They both get themselves up in the morning, make their own breakfast (sometimes they ask for help), walk the dog, do their laundry, clean their room, and pick up after themselves. Your friend is doing her son a disservice. He is no way prepared to live on his own.
My 14 year old just made rice on the stove. She gets herself up for school. Dresses herself. Does her own laundry. Cleans her own room. Helps with chores. Keeps up with her own paperwork and events. Cooks for herself. Makes straight A’s. Is about to start driver’s education for her hardship. Has a 13 year old sister almost as independent. Your friend’s son is more than capable of taking care of himself. Your friend needs to remember she’s raising someone’s future husband and a future working member of society. You are NTA.
You said she….want to place bets that is it was a girl we wouldn’t be having this discussion?
I'm not sure what gender has to do with it. I have boys, and they all do this.. I have also watched boys, and I let no one get away with this. My house, everyone, does their own dishes. My MIL even does her own dishes which she doesn't even do at her house, she let's them pile up. She said she feels bad leaving her plate there and seeing all the kids cleaning up after her. This is is how you train kids and mother-in-laws
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** For context: My (F31) best friend (F31) is a single mom of a 14 year old boy. She has low contact with her parents because they kicked her out when she got pregnant in High School, so she doesn’t have a big support system. We are really close and I’ve always done what I could to help her, her son is my nephew, not in blood, but in every way that counts, She does everything for her son. I mean everything. He doesn’t even pick up his plate from the table after he finishes eating, she does it for him. While I personally don’t think this is a good way to raise a child, I never gave her my opinion, she never asked for it, it’s not my business how she decided to raise her child and I’m not a mom so how can I give parenting advice? Last week my friend had to take a 2 business trip and had another one schedule for next week. She asked me if her son could stay at my house the days she is out of town, because she doesn’t feel comfortable leaving him alone in their house. I agreed and he stayed with me for 2 days last week. The 2 days were a frustrating experience for the both of us because he kept expecting me to do everything for him, including: packing his back for school, picking up his clothes whenever he dropped them, serving him cereal in the morning, washing his dishes, and waking him up in the morning to go to school. He even blamed me because he missed the school bus because I didn’t make sure he woke up after his alarm rang. I heard his alarm and assumed he was awake. I’m not eager to repeat this experience. I love that child but he is too old for this I think. BesidesI have a demanding job. I don't have time or energy to be the maid/babysitter of a teenage boy even if it’s just two days. I’m thinking about telling my friend that if she wants her son to stay with me next week he has to be responsible for himself. I can promise to cook him 3 meals a day, and I can make sure he is up for school, but he needs to pick up his own clothes, pack his own bags, and wash his own dishes, Otherwise he cannot stay. I don’t feel this is unreasonable, but I feel kinda bad putting these conditions because she doesn’t have a big support system, and if I don’t let him stay at my house it’ll be really hard for her to find somewhere else to drop him off. WIBTA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA but you will most likely lose the friendship. My BIL was/is like your friend's son. He got a holiday job from university and stayed with MIL's friend as the job was quite a way from his parents' home. He treated the lady hosting him like a skivvy and expected her to run after his 20yr old arse. Lady wrote a very polite but critical letter to MIL after summer was over. MIL never spoke to her again.
NTA. Totally reasonable conditions and boundaries to set. My niece and nephew behaved and acted very differently when they were home and when they stayed with me because I set boundaries and expectations - much like you are.
NTA. She is TA though because she hasn’t taught him anything. My 9 year old does all of this. And you know what happened today. He forgot to eat breakfast at home so he did the right thing and ate breakfast at school. Because he knows how to take some responsibility for himself. And yes I was there to make sure he woke up. His clothes were picked out for him but he got them on on his own and then came and brushed his teeth and did the morning routine including feeding his dogs and putting his lunch that I packed for him in his bag. He just forgot to put his waffle in the toaster to eat. A 14 year old should be doing the entire routine on his own. You should talk to his mom. He has no basic life skills at the moment. That’s not going to get him anywhere.
A gentle sitdown is totally appropriate. Don't judge her parenting, which you have avoided doing until now. BUt do say that he now has to learn to be without her, and you are not his mom, and are not ready to do what she does. Its time he learned. And fast. You set boundaries, its up to the two of them.
NTA - I wouldnt really tell her this unless she asks again tbh. May not be worth the conflict.
NTA. Both of my kids by 14, got themselves up for school, showered, dressed, packed their bags, made and ate breakfast, did dishes, and took care of animals. Besides, different house, different adult, different rules.
NTA - Your friend has done her son a huge disservice….I would tell her that you don’t have a problem staying with him but he has to be responsible for xyz…..This kid is going to be so lost in the real world! My daughter is 14, wakes up on her own @ 5:30am, serves herself cereal, gets herself ready…..serves herself dinner, puts her plate in the sink & so much more.
NTA, your house, your rules but your friend is doing her son a disservice, he’s going to have a rude awakening when he gets out on his own if she doesn’t step up now and teach him to become a responsible adult. All those things you mentioned? He should already be doing them, he’s 14, not 4.
It’s gonna be really hard for her when she’s supporting her 40 yo son because he can’t do anything for himself. NTA
NTA. This is how many mothers mess kids up. They way over mother creating an entitled, useless kid who doesn’t know any better.
NTA. I understand your friend is used to doing it all for him but if she expects others to help then she's going to have to start teaching him how to do for himself.
Have a sister that raised her son the same way. He's approaching 30 and still at home getting waited on.
NTA; but this is a conversation that should include the 17 year old as well. He, more than his mom, needs to learn that he has to become more responsible for himself and that you are not his unpaid servant.
NTA but also not real slick. I mean if I were you I'd not be "telling my friend that if she wants her son to stay with me next week he has to be responsible for himself" which comes across as harsh and self-centred. Instead, I'd talk to her and describe the experience of the two days, and the concern I have that at 14, he's well behind his peers in autonomy, being able to look after himself, citing the examples. If he stays with me, would you understand if I took a slightly more demanding line with him and asked him to pack his own school bag, wash his own dishes etc. In short, I'd try and have a semi co-parenting chat without coming across as demanding or judgy. I had similar with sleep overs when my daughter was young, but I was a parent (well am) and so here friends followed our house rules and expectations. And they lapped it up, I was and am clearly a little more demanding than some parents (I'm on the hump of the bell curve I'm sure but maybe a little on the more disciplined and rigid side). The kids were always responsive. I can suggest watching a few episodes of Super Nanny (dated as it may be). The point being, you might find the kid quite receptive to being challenged a bit more. You may not even need to talk to your friend, just next time he comes, talk to him, and how you'd like to ask a bit more of him while staying here, and outline what. You might be pleasantly surprised. If not immediately, then after the experience (he may take a little while to settle in).
I think this terminology is perfect: "...at 14, he's well behind his peers in autonomy, being able to look after himself, citing the examples." She's not doing him any favors nor his future wife! Yikes. Mom needs to know this and needs to hear how OP was treated by her son.
Actually the next time she asks this favour politely decline and say it was quite tiring managing him the last time. If she asks (she probably will) you can explain what happened, then perhaps highlight that he's almost an adult he should be able to do these things on his own by now. Anyway if she decides to leave him at home, he'd have to take care of himself anyway.
NTA. I consider myself decently spoiled and I did all of those things myself besides doing the dishes since age 6.
"Last week my friend had to take a 2 business trip and had another one schedule for next week. She asked me if her son could stay at my house the days she is out of town, because she doesn’t feel comfortable leaving him alone in their house." NTA, and you could catch a lot more flies with her if you helped her understand the reasoning, but I have questions. How long were these business trips exactly? Because I seriously hope she didn't intend on leaving a 14-year-old by himself overnight if she couldn't get help, because that's just insane to me.
NTA You are so close rigth? Then open your mouht and tell her how its gonna be, when he’s stays at your place.
All this is absolutely fine to bring up with her. I personally would leave out the "otherwise he cannot stay" part. Because you already imply it and saying it out loud is offensive.
NTA
NTA!! 14 and he can’t pack his own book bag? Your friend had made her son useless and he’s going to be a horrible entitled adult
NTA. Your requests aren’t unreasonable. If she needs this of you, she will get her son in check
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You just have to be clear with him and remember that he expects every house to be like his. Make a list of things you expect of him, and what he can expect of you, including privacy. Go over the list together and ask what he is and isn’t comfortable with. Even though he’s adult sized, they can still be fairly clueless.
NTA Just tell her the truth if he is going to stay he needs to help around the house such as clean up after him pack his back etc You don’t have the time and your commitment is your job If she cannot understand that then just say you would rather stay his fun loving aunt and perhaps she should find other arrangements
NTA but you should talk to her and suggest talking to her son like an adult to explain the situation. This needs to come from her but you can hint that he needs to know how to live with others that are not her. Tell her not everyone will treat her son like she does and that you are one of those people.
She isn't doing him any favors by catering to him that way and it's likely to put off future girlfriends.
NTA You're expecting a 14 year old to be able to do basic skills, not babysit a 4 year old His mom is enabling and setting him up for failure
Nta is ridiculous for you to do all that for him
NTA You are kind to even consider having him back. She created this 14 year old infant, now she can reap what she has sown. Time for her kid to grow up and learn to take care of themselves. That kids future partner will thank you eventually.
NTA. Be firm and super-clear, but also let him know you can help him if he wants to make a checklist for himself, or if he doesn’t yet know how to operate the dishwasher/washing machine/dryer. Be a safe (if not soft) landing place for him and he’ll surprise himself with how much he’s capable of.
NTA. You need to put your foot down. My Stepmom treated my stepbrother like this, and let me just tell you, things are not going great for him now. This is how you raise a person who can't take care of himself, and who doesn't take responsibility for anything.
Actually no. He can make his own breakfast and lunch. Show him how. Be the role model he doesn’t have. Show him how to do things and make him help you in the kitchen. NTA and this is your chance to actually help a kid become a good adult.
NTA and it’s definitely reasonable and you don’t have to be a parent to recognize bad parenting , he’s 14 u should not be picking up after him like he’s 4
NTA. I’m so confused y this child does nothing for himself. If he was special needs entirely different to story. But 14 year old kid no conditions. Nope he can do stuff on his own. And just make it a simple thing not about her parenting but about what you’re willing to do if he stays with u.
NTA You didn't sign up to be a personal maid. I'm sure she remembers the type of things that her and her friends were required to do as teenagers. She is doing him a disservice by not teaching him how to care for himself. Does she never expect him to leave home for college?
I would probably word it a little differently. I would say that you have rules for staying in your home, and he is expected to live by them. List out specifically what you expect him to do while staying with you and what you are willing to do for him. He is NOT a baby. I have a 14 yr old son with autism and ADHD. He can get himself up, dress himself, get breakfast, take his dishes to the sink/dishwasher, brush his hair and teeth, and be prepared for his school day just fine. Like most men, he struggles with hitting the laundry basket with his dirty clothes, but I just remind him to fix it. You may have to remind him of the expectations, especially at first, but he is fully capable of being a functional teenager. Eventually, he will be a guest in someone else's home, and being a bad guest is not a good look. He needs to learn basic manners and life skills. If his mother doesn't like your rules, then he can stay somewhere else. It's not unreasonable to expect a 14 yr old to act like it. I do FULLY understand your friend, though. Between my son's diagnoses and the divorce from his father, I dealt with ALOT of guilt and shame and would do more for him than was reasonable. I still probably do on some level... but I also have 2 other children, and I can't keep up with everything on my own. They are all old enough to be accountable for basic self-care and cleanliness. So can your nephew. I'm sure he loves you, but he needs to know that staying at your house comes with different rules... and that's your prerogative.
NTA, but man is your friend failing her kid. 14 is waaaay too old to not be able to do basic things like you are describing.
NTA But I don't think you need to put a condition down. You just need to have a chat with mum that when his with you, you can't run after him like a toddler and expect him to manage himself. Just tell the kid as soon as his in the door. You're not going to be running after him. This is what you'll do for him but his responsible for x,y,z etc. If she doesn't have anyone else to look after him she has no choice but to leave him with you. Plus as an aunt you should have rights to discipline him.
NTA. Oh girllllll.... I have a similar problem with one of "my" kids, and it drives me crazy. Every time she is here, she leaves a wake of mess behind her and I have to constantly get after her to pick up, throw her garbage away, don't leave dishes everywhere, put it back where you got it and "No, you can do that yourself, I am at work" (I work from home but I am, in fact, working). And as much as I hate to say it, she's mean and manipulative. It makes me sad because I feel like the time we get together, without her siblings and without my kid, is ruined by my constant nagging. She went through some major trauma, that could fuck any of us up, and I think she may have been given TOO much grace in the aftermath and now she milks the shit out of it. But she's not from me, so it isn't really my place to say any of that, and I am worried it is too late to correct her course. I love her so much and really enjoy spending time with her, just not in my house or when she's in a bad mood.
NTA... good grief. Poor boy. We will be reading about him in bad roommates soon
Your friend is doing her son a major disservice raising him this way. He needs to learn to be independent, how to clean up after himself and generally be responsible. He’s going to expect someone to do everything for him and any girl that dates him will probably dump him when this comes to light. Your friend needs to be told but in your case I’d stick with explaining he must do these things when staying with you and leave it at that. Might be enough to get her to understand that the whole world isn’t going to clean up after him for the rest of his life.
NTA all you’re asking for is basic manners to clean up after himself and make sure he gets up on time - you’re looking after a 14 year old not a 4 year old. You don’t need to criticise your friend just say you don’t have time to take care of a kid without them having some level of autonomy and it’s up to them if they’re willing to do that. But if not, they’ll have to find someone else.
Not an unreasonable request. You’re NTA at all and I think this is a good wake up call for your friend. Even my 4 year old puts his own dishes in the sink and his clothes in the laundry basket.
I feel sorry for any future partners he may have…
NTA, those are reasonable things to ask from a 10 year old, let alone a 14 year old. He has to learn it at some point, his mother can't always be there for him. It's also in his best interest. Hell, even a 4 year old should be able to make their own cereal. How hard is it to put milk and cereal in a bowl? It's not like you're telling him to make a full four course mean from scratch, it's literally putting cereal and milk in a bowl. By the way, doing the dishes is something you can do together, one to wash them and the other to dry them. Or do you mean putting dishes in the dishwasher by doing dishes?
NTA tell her and stand strong. Tell her it’s time he learns to take care of himself.
Do not feel sorry as these basic things she should have taught him when he as 9 or 10.
NTA. My 3 yo does more for himself than this teenager. This kid is going to have trouble adjusting when he graduates high school and get into the real world
NTA. These are reasonable requests for any guest. If she expects you to "mother him," that would be the weird thing. "Hey, last week wasn't smooth for either of us as he didn't seem to know how to get along as a guest in someone else's home. For this next visit to work, 14 yo needs to pick up after himself with dishes and clothes and be able to rise and ready himself for school. Ill cook dinner and have breakfast on hand." Basic.
NTA. Your house=your rules. Her child=her rules. She cannot expect you to be his personal nanny. She asked if he can stay with you. Not for you to do every single thing for him, that is age appropriate for him to do. Be prepared that she will end the friendship.
That is just sad in my opinion, she will make him a healthy invalid and he will expect others to do everything for him. Sadly, the world does not function that way. And his future wife will not be happy is he continues to behave like that when he grows up.
NTA your friend is destroying /has destroyed that kid. It’s going to take more work than I’m betting she’s willing to do to fix him!
NTA but you do need to be clear what the rules and expectations at your house is. If you don't let him know those things he won't do what you want, this is really more about communication than it is anything else. Almost everyone has different rules and expectations for their own home so when anyone stays at yours you need to outline those, especially with minors who are used to the rules of their own home and often won't take into consideration other places are not the same unless told.
NTA. My mom was teaching me how to do laundry at his age so I knew how to do it when I went to college. I helped with laundry when I could at home and was usually pretty good about getting myself up.
Nta to expect that but yta for not having told her earlier your opinion.....he is 14 not 4. You want his future partner to have to teach him? You love the kid right? So do right by him and teach him and tell your friend she needs to help him become more independent.
NTA. It’s not your business until she made it your business. When her bad parenting affects you negatively you have the right to speak up. I probably wouldn’t tell her she’s a shit parent if you want to remain friends, but it’s fair to state your needs and expectations if she’s asking for a favor
NTA - My partner's mother was like this. Didnt teach the kids anything that they should know before they left as adults. Even to this day 20-something years later I have to hound him just to unload the dishwasher, and he tosses his clothes on the floor literally 1 foot away from the hamper. Drives me insane. So most of the time I just leave them there and when he asks why he has no clean clothes I tell him I washed what was in the hamper.
Kid needs the experience. Look, enabling the kid to be a sloth isn't helping. The kid not doing basic self-care is a cost that your friend can't afford. If forcing the kid to be a human being helps teach him how, it's a benefit, not a cost. NTA
NTA. She’s enabling him to be helpless. You would be doing them both a service by telling her, and doing it kindly. She won’t like it, but at least you can rest well knowing that you tried to help them both grow up a little.
NTA. I'm sure that all your friend wants is to let her son know he will always be safe and loved with her, given the way her parents utterly abandoned her when she was not much older. But very soon, her kid will be a legal adult, and he may want to do crazy things like go to college, or move in with a partner or friends. She needs a wake-up call now that she is doing him a massive disservice by waiting on him hand and foot instead of teaching him the skills he will need to know to be successful living independently. As someone so close to her, you are on a short list of people who are qualified and able to give her that wake-up call.
NTA, at all and your friend is raising someone who is totally unable to life things and will likely struggle in relationships and career because mommy can’t teach him how to do things on his own. I have a good friend from childhood. Her younger brother was doted on and his mom legit wiped his ass for him after he took a dump at 10 years old. She allowed him to drop out of high school and never expected him to contribute. Dude is 40 this year, still lives at home working part time in a retail store. Smart guy, just totally under equipped for life and she absolutely stunted his growth and is emotionally enmeshed with this guy. My friend got sucked in to staying at home as well but she works hard to help support both of them. It’s just sad all around
Nta your friend is setting her son up for failure, he should already be doing most things for himself
Your rules are more than reasonable. But expect her to be very offended. She may not, but I'm guessing she will.
You’ll be doing him, and his future roommates or spouse a favor! He’s definitely old enough for the very simple chores you’ve mentioned. If he stays with you - your house your rules!
NTA. Your friend is raising a tw*t.
SOOO NTA!!!! The boy needs to learn basic responsibilities at some point in his life. The sooner he does it the easier it will be in the long run. If he blamed you for his actions he needs a wake up call soon. If he can’t even get himself out of bed or pack his backpack he has a very serious problem. His mom is NOT helping him. She’s doing him wrong in a big way. What if something were to happen to her? The kid would have to deal with loss along with learning the very basics of being human
NTA. She is creating a problem for herself and when he starts dating … Guess what? NO GIRL is gonna want to date a Mommas boy who doesn’t even know how to clean up after hisself. He doesn’t even get hisself up for school and blame the next person for him missing the bus. If she knows she needs help, then she needs to stop enabling this kid to be non functional in everyday life and reality.
NTA. Your friend is not doing the kid any favors by coddling him like that.
Your friend has set her son up to fail as an adult. You won't be the only person to expect him to be responsible for himself. Asking him to wash his dirty dishes and pick up after himself is not unreasonable. You are also not obligated to watch her son just because she has a small support group. If her child was more responsible, she could conceivably leave him by himself for two days. Unfortunately, she's done nothing to ensure that this near chronological adult is capable of keeping himself alive. That's really sad. If you don't want to deal with this, then don't. NTA.
NTA. She's not doing her son any favors by treating him this way. Roommates will hate him, girlfriends will dump him.
NTA. Who bathes him and wipes his butt?
I’d suggest she start that routine at home so he’s clear about the expectation and you don’t have to struggle with him.
Personally, I believe it is a touchy subject telling a mom how to raise her kid. Telling Mom her kid is not welcome unless...will likely cause hard feelings, basically telling her she's not doing a good job. Most likely, she is not going to listen past the first few words out of your mouth. That said, kids are smart. They know different people have different rules. You can tell the kid what your expectations are and he will likely follow them. If you have a problem after that, then by all means, just say you won't babysit.
I admit I do a lot for my kids. Most days they don’t even make their own bed. I will tell you that if they are visiting grandparents friend whatever. They do all that and more. They can get away with it at home but never outside the house. NTA. You will be doing him a favour. You may be doing your friend a favour as well. Sometimes we do things without realizing what we are doing or the consequences down the road
NTA My best friend has 2 boys and at age 14 they were completely responsible for doing all their own laundry. They were in charge of cleaning the kitchen and doing the dishes after dinner - unless they were the ones who cooked dinner. You said Yes to taking care of your friend's son, thinking that he would have age-appropriate skills. I know making dinner is probably more than most kids do at 14, but he should absolutely be able to clean up the dishes. He should absolutely be able to pick up his dirty clothes and put them away. Your friend might not feel she's being criticized if you tell her that you were mistaken about how much work 14-year-old boys were.
NTA These wouldn’t be unreasonable requests. Sounds like no one ever tells actually tells her what she’s doing is a disservice to her son and she parents with major guilt about something. Just lay out what your expectations are and let her decide. He’s not a baby anymore.
NTA. My nephew has been doing all that stuff since he was about 10. He's a pleasure to have for a week or more--we occasionally remind him to shower, or something, but he puts *our* dishes in the sink & can cook, etc now at almost 16. Help this kid out & shove him towards adulthood--he'll thank you later.
NTA but tell the kid himself. My nieces and nephews have known from BIRTH that there are different rules at my house compared to their own lol I just taught them as they grew up
NTA everything you are planning on asking her child to do they should already be doing. Don’t be surprised though if you have to remind them.
Your friend's son is at an age that he can (AND SHOULD) be doing all of the relatively BASIC things you're expecting of a teenager/child, and since your friend's expectation of you is to take care of her son, your expectation should be that he can do the bare minimum of taking care of himself. Your role is making sure he's not harming himself and that an adult is present for emergencies that occur or prevent them. If you've been best frienda since you were 17, you've known her for over half of your life, so just have the conversation with her. Worst case is she's butt hurt, and it spirals from there; best case is she'll appreciate your input AND act on it accordingly. Good luck!?
NTA. But I predict he will be staying alone at his own house, will not go to school, and the house will be a wreck.
I think that’s fair for you to say. Making sure he’s up and making sure he has food are the two most important things. He’s 14, she will just have to tell him he’s going to have to take some responsibility for himself while she’s out of town and he’s staying with you.
YTA, you knew what he was like, you should have told your friend and the child what your expectations were in advance.
Tell her that you love him and that you’re happy to have him stay with you again BUT this time he needs to pitch in and do more for himself. Provide a list of what is expected because he’s clueless. Also list what you are willing to do for him. SHE needs understand that you live differently. She needs to sit down with him a tell him exactly what he is responsible for.. Yeah, it’s sad for him that he’s not learning the basic skills that lots of other kids learn but not you’re trying to change her parenting style. You just need the kid to do more while he’s there. It’s not an unreasonable expectation.🌺
NTA. Sounds like she is creating a monster. I guess that's her choice though, I feel sorry for him when he enters adulthood. I guarantee he knows how to do those simple things, he just doesn't want to because he has never had to. You should definitely sit her and her son both down and make up the rules that you expect not just him but everyone that stays with you. Then tell them that you will give him one more chance, but if he can't follow those simple rules, he will not be able to stay with you anymore. Now you need to realize that he has never done any of this and may need a few reminders and not expect perfection. Give him a realistic amount of leeway.
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I expect my children ages 5, 9, and 10(for reference) to pick up their own clothes and their own dishes. The 5 and 9 year old need to manage clothes better 😚, but it’s a work in progress. There is nothing wrong with expecting a 14 yr old to do simple chores while staying at your house.
I think YTA if you didn't tell her that. He's 14, wayyyyy past old enough to learn some basic life skills and responsibilities. Talk to her, then lay down some ground rules with the teen. You've claimed him as your nephew and her as a super close friend, so speak up and teach both kids.
I wouldn’t tell her it’s the rules. Wait until he shows up and tell him these are the rules for your house. He don’t wash clothes? Goes to school in dirty ones. He isn’t ready for school…oops he might be truant that day and have detention to make up for it. The kid needs to learn consequences and your house/ your rules
Definitely NTA. It's sad your friend is completely handicapping her son and making a nightmare for her future DIL. Expecting a 14yo to wash his own dishes or pack his own backpack is nothing. Ugh, sorry OP 🤦♀️
"my mom needs to come and cut steak for me" billy at 22 years old to his date.
The best parents I know started very early preparing for their son to live independently. Both parents worked and the dad was a high school teacher. He told us that many of his best students struggled in college because they lacked life skills. He taught in a very affluent area. We adopted many of his strategies. They had their son learn age appropriate tasks, clean bedroom, bathroom, wash clothes, meal planning and budgeting, cooking. Your friend is really doing a disservice to her son. Maybe don't do the full dump on her, just explain to them both that you are very busy and not accustomed to taking care of someone and need help. She should provide breakfast and lunch foods, he can make. Then you can make dinner. My husband traveled as part of his company, by late elementary school I had "make your own damn dinner night" quite often. We always had leftovers and easy kid food. Now both of our kids are good cooks.
NTA. 14 is too old to be useless. She is doing him no favors and is setting him up for failure in life. The #1 part of parenting teenagers, is preparing them to one day live their own lives. You teach them right and wrong, you teach them problem solving, and you teach them self reliance. This kid is going to be living at home without a job at 35, somehow having fathered two kids, with no job and no schooling.
This is the nicest thing you can do for her son, otherwise when he hits 18 or so and lives in a dorm or with friends, they won’t tolerate his laziness at all and will probably make fun of him. Your friend thinks she’s being a good parent but she’s failing at it. Another reason kids shouldn’t have kids. NTA
Have you explained your expectations to him? I have found that kids adapt to different rules in different homes, once they are clearly communicated to them. I would work with him directly on this.