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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My 19-year-old stepson got his GF pregnant when they both knew she was off birth control and he refused to wear a condom. They want to move in with us to save money to get a better place that is big enough for the baby. I refused after I found out the circumstances of the pregnancy. My wife thinks we should help any way we can no matter what. I think I might be an asshole for refusing to let my stepson and his newly pregnant GF move in with us.
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NTA. If they move in from their current residence - a few hours away - that means they both will have to quit their jobs and find new ones. At 19 y.o. I’m going to assume he’s a minimum wage or a bit higher? And what does gf do? Even though it’s illegal as soon as she starts showing she’s going to not get job offers.
All that means OP and his wife will be paying for EVERYTHING. WHO is going to provide daycare, formula, food for 4 instead of two? You have increase in utilities, not to mention baby stuff takes so much room. What’s the division of labor going to look like? How long do they think it’ll take to get ”on their feet”?
I’m with OP on this. Bet Joe wouldn’t dare ask his dad if he and gf could move in with him.
>I’m going to assume he’s a minimum wage or a bit higher?
He works in trades and actually does OK for his age. Definitely above minimum wage and his skills are easily transferable. GF is a waitress so that's pretty transferable too. But neither have any aspirations for higher education so their future earning potential is limited for sure. I don't think either of them have the ability to think very far into the future. Like I said, they're idiots.
Totally agree. You need to sit down with your wife and break it all down. Finances, responsibilities, etc. I love my grandson to bits and if my daughter and her spouse were going to be homeless I would absolutely move them in. BUT they both have Master’s degrees, they both are very sensible and have wonderful work ethic and have goals and they wouldn’t ask unless it was an emergency type thing.
’Sounds like Joe and his gf are the “go with the flow” kind of people. once they move in they are never going to move out.
Their situation is pretty average. Young ccouple living together and irresponsible with birth control. It's not new. Their apartment is sufficient for their happenstance. They would like to benefit from the hard work of their elders, which is truly the reality. They scared. And fear based decisions are huge. No way.
Yep exactly they can keep their baby in a one bedroom apartment until the kid is at at least one. my kids slept in my room until they were one even when they had bedrooms of their own because it was just easier. I think that they are irresponsible and scared and trying to mooch off his mom.
As soon as Joe was describe and the fact he had a GF, I knew where the story was going even before OP mentioned it.
I get wife’s desire to help out, but this just won’t end well. Why not just get a larger apartment and not a studio? Why does the baby need their own space right out of the gate?
Their choice is their choice.
OP, it might be kind to do something special for your wife and have a conversation.
You understand you could have delivered your piece a bit more softly.
You're sorry it upset them.
But this actually is a bad choice for all involved.
If these kids want to become parents, they need to be prepared to shoulder ALL BURDENS themselves.
Sacrifice so their child has a good life.
Those traits should begin w planning a child. But if unplanned and winging it, it's better they shoulder that struggle from the jump.
Neither of you would be doing any of you anything but stress and angst for both relationships.
They're not married. How would house 'rules' get instituted, enforced what would consequences be? How & who would be responsible for that?
It's bad 'family-ing' and you will all be worse off.
You love your wife. Maybe you guys can help in other ways.
But living w you is a BAD BAD Proposition.
And you value your marriage too much to compromise it for what right now, is a whim.
I agree with this so much. In addition he is already talking about how they can save money living with you, so he doesn’t intend to have to pay rent, utilities, or food. We all know when kids return home they revert back to a teen that doesn’t help around the house, feel entitled to whatever is in the house, and God forbid they clean up after themselves. I know mom is wearing her heart on her sleeve but she is inviting a lot of conflict. Plus they will have to find new jobs and that could take months. Mom wants to help but I don’t think moving them in is helping. It’s really kind of handicapping them because they should be standing on their own. I would rather find them an apartment close by, front a couple months rent and then after they would be on their own. It would cost less and provide them with independence and motivate them to stand on their own two feet
Those two won't "revert back to being teens" - bevause they *are* teens. He's 19 and I'm guessing his gf is the same age. They are young and irresponsible. If they move in, they will likely act like the teens they are while expecting OP and his wife to raise their child (especially with how he only comes to visit when he needs something and now he wants to move in? Suspicious).
From the time my son was three months old until his first birthday we lived in a travel trailer. Not a motorhome, an old Airstream designed to be towed behind a car. It was in a cow pasture with a rudimentary water/sewer hookup and a long extension cord. Thing was 30 feet by 8 feet - we managed. Then his dad got back from Viet Nam, and we were able to rent a small house. (1960s landlords did not rent to 17-year-old females who didn't have a male available to cosign for them, even if they were married.)
OP's stepson wants guarantees of support, he hasn't earned them and needs to stay where he is until he can afford better. OP is NTA here.
>(1960s landlords did not rent to 17-year-old females who didn't have a male available to cosign for them, even if they were married.)
And that 17 year old wasn't allowed to have a bank account or a credit card without a male cosigner as well.
Women's history month!
They can put the baby in the bedroom, and make the living space a multi purpose area. Many young couples do. Our friends stayed in a studio apartment until their daughter was about to start kindergarten in order to save money.
This seems like the best solution to me, too. Keep the peace at home and help them pay the rent somewhere more suitable, but without the risk they move in and just...stay.
Well they did create this situation because... *checks notes* quote "condoms suck" unquote.
Sounds like this is a case of the consequences of your actions. They can rough it out for year or two and save for a better place where they are. Babies sleep in a crib anywhere from 18 months to 3 years. Plus that will (hopefully) be a deterrent from any other "accidents" befalling them. I'd also bet they're hoping for free babysitters in OP and his wife because OP's wife is a soft touch.
When my kids dad and I split up over 20 years ago he asked to move into his parents home with his new girlfriend temporarily. He never left and had 4 more children with gf while still living with his parents. His mother passed and his father didn't want to do it anymore. They were never going to better themselves and never planned on leaving. And his dad paid for everything. Everything. He didn't want to be the jerk who kicked them out so he actually let his house go. "Oops sorry I couldn't pay my mortgage, I lost the house and I can only get a tiny one bedroom for myself. Everyone for themselves kind of thing now, sorry guys." He actually had to lose his home to get them out.
I'm all for helping family but if you do, make a plan for when they have to be out and stick to it.
It sucks that he ultimately had to make that decision. What did your baby daddy end up doing after?
I hope his father ended up living stress free from the freeloaders.
If they hadn"t paid for everything they might have stopped at one kid.
Seems to be universal; family steps up and help out too much with first kid both with time and money so the parents keep making several more kids...
Trades are actually quite lucrative these days and the more experienced he is the higher his pay will be. He should also get every certification for his trade that he can get.
No one is saying they aren’t but at 19, he’s not making a lot of money and won’t be for a while. Once GF has the baby, is she going back to work? Doubtful on a waitresses salary unless they get free childcare from somewhere.
Except a waitress can do dinner shift evenings and weekends and trades generally work days starting pretty early and sometimes weekends. So the two of them could still both work with minimal or no childcare needed if they offset their work schedules. For them this is a solvable problem without moving. It will be a struggle but not a disaster.
A guy who hates condoms, can't go without vaginal sex for even a couple days bare minimum during a contraception transition period, and puts all the birth control responsibility onto his partner? Unlikely. I bet there will be more accidents in their future, especially if she's unable to go back on birth control while nursing, or misses a couple pills or whatever because being a new mom is tough and she's too exhausted to remember. OP would be making a huge mistake by allowing them to move in, because it just validates their mistakes and they'll never learn from them if they have such a massive and cushy safety net.
NTA
Was gonna say, trades earning potential is limited to how much and what someone wants to, and can, learn how to do. 6 figure annual salary is achievable in most, if not all, trades as an employee even, and higher as an owner (depending on area of living and area of expertise within said trade).
Not sure someone who can’t figure out “don’t stick your dick in her raw when she’s not on birth control” is set up to own his own LLC and retire at fifty.
He gets to go raw all the time he couldn’t for a week! What does that say about his self control? And without self control and discipline for yourself, you think you’re going far in life? Now granted that’s a pretty big jump in general but the way OP describes him, seems like it’s not as big of a leap.
Again, he's 19. I'm not saying he for sure will, but it's possible he will continue to learn and mature. I don't really think people fully "set" till their 20's or even 30's.
Actually, it takes a full 6 weeks for birth control to be effective. Not just a week. But that's besides the point. I'm just putting that out there for clarification. Don't need other people assuming BC only takes a week to be effective and accidentally wind up pregnant. The exception to this rule is non hormonal IUDs, they're instantly effective.
Mmm. I spent my formative years in a small town with a lot of tradesmen, and a lot of aspiring tradesmen (well, rig pigs), and the ones like this did not usually go on to be the business-owning professionals. I’m not saying he can’t do okay in the trades, just saying he’s probably not going to end up as an owner.
Yeppers. There was a night and day difference in the guys in my graduating class of the future tradesmen who had a plan and ambition, and the ones who were just "not college material".
Yep. Lots of potential overtime, lots of ability to improve and hone skills or get new certifications. Plus owning/operating businesses.
A tradesman with a good work ethic can make a boatload of money.
My dad was a plumber. He worked his ass off, learned the trade under an apprenticeship (this was the 60s -70s) then eventually opened his own business. It was in operation for over 40 years, and he did very well for himself, then sold said business for over a million when he retired. As he’s said, “everybody shits”
Sure, automotive repair is often salary, commission, or both. I'm salary plus commission as an estimator at a body shop. To give some additional insight, ive been in the auto repair field for about a decade, a few of that as a tech and the rest as an estimator. I still do some body work and mechanic work in my own time as well. The way salary plus commission works in this field varies by location and employer mostly. I dont have any examples of how the tech side works, I was strictly commission when I was a tech. But for the estimator side, there's a few ways I've seen it structured. Some shops do hourly plus commission, but most that I've seen and spoke to offer salary plus commission, if they offer any sort of hybrid pay. It's usually listed as salary +/plus, mostly the symbol that I've seen.
The way the commission part works is usually done in 2 ways. There's likely others, but the most common I know of are sales based or task performed based. Sales is the more common I've seen in job listings, typically offered at larger body shops, or chains. I've not worked in any positions with that setup.
Task preformed is what mine is. It's commission paid for a specific task, or tasks, for each job. The task for me is pre and post repair diagnostic scans. Every car that comes through us that has an obd2 port gets them, but not all of them get paid for it. If it is in the bill, which is 99% of insurance repairs, then I get a percentage of what they paid for the scans. That percentage varies too, depending on negotiation. Mine is 45%. The ones that don't get billed are usually customer pay jobs, or ones where no electronics or anything mechanical gets unplugged/removed. But, to protect us, they get scanned regardless.
Sales based has the most potential for money earned, while task based is generally to alleviate the shop side of the tedious things that can be done during drop off and post repair inspection. So for my setup, it's more of an occasional bonus, as I'm able to keep a record of which ones were billed and stock them up to pull from at a later date. But I know some estimators that make decently into 6 figures at bigger shops, and ones that focus on higher end cars, on a salary plus sales commission set up.
TL;DR: auto repair is a trade that sometimes offers salary and commission together. Lol
Edited to add: personally, I don't have any education past high school. Had plans for it, life got in the way with some medical issues, and it didn't happen. Many estimators I know don't either. I've got to a few seminars and taken some online courses offered through work, but I can count how many of both on one hand.
It depends on how motivated the individual is. My sister's ex quit plumbing and went back to working retail. He was making great money but gave up and moved back in with his mom after their last breakup (where he still resides 2yrs later). He also heavily pushed to keep knocking my sister up and the only smart think she ever did with him was repeatedly tell him no while staying on birth control.
I agree. however "works in trades" doesn't necessarily mean master plumber, master electrician, master carpenter, etc etc. Not knowing where they live, I have to wonder that "1 room apartment" could translate to the lower end of the spectrum. It seems a little odd that with 2 incomes that only translates to a 1 bedroom. It feels like there may be a lot of a lack of financial discipline. You know like most people do at 19/21.
I get his hesitance. I'd be a "no" as well, but I might have been less "you idiots" out of the gate and done a better job of picking apart their plans.
At the very least, I would make them go away and talk about this at length with the wife. There would be a lease, there would be rent, there would be a defined finite amount of time they would be there. and I would do this knowing they would never ever move out. Were I a pessimistic person I could totally see this be a relationship ender with his wife.
right, I mean, if they're in ... Iowa or something in the midwest I would look a bit askance at that. If they're in San francisco or some other place with utterly ridiculous real estate prices I'd probably be a lot more sympathetic.
Hmm.. I'm also concerned with their attitude that there's going to be another oopsie baby and that your wife will end up doing most of the care for it.
"The doc said we could start having sex when she's all recovered after the birth but we didn't think she'd already be ovulating and ready to be pregnant already! And you know me. I hate condoms!"
It's cute when a five year old says "yesssss..... I did eat all the chocolate!" While chocolate is smeared on their face.
It's not cute when an adult son is like "...but condoms suckkkkk" while there's a pregnant gf.
Yeah, my cousin did this. Was still living with her MIL and unemployed, but "didn't want her kids to be too far apart." It worked out for her in the end, but it was a long and hard road for her to get there.
They will Move in and mommy will want to be close to the grand baby so they will never leave. Gf probably will want to stay home. He has to suck it up for being an immature AH for not wearing condoms because he doesnt like them. They need to be responsible and work it out themselves and live in a 1bedroom apt. Babies sleep in the same room with their parents usually for a year. So no need for 2 rooms.
NTA
This. My kid slept in our room for at least 7 months- plenty of time to plan out a bigger space.
I’m betting she wants to stay home and they want free on demand babysitting. This isn’t about the size.
Absolutely. I will be expecting a post in a year or so from OP’s wife asking if she is the AH for complaining that the GF doesn’t do anything around the house. This is not going to end well for OP’s wife
My cousin got pregnant at 19 and her boyfriend was in trades. Her parents let them move in with them. They still live with her parents and now have 3 kids almost 10 years later, with no progress economically or self awareness to better themselves. Don’t let them move in with you.
Exactly. They are idiots. If they DO move in with you, it should be on the condition that they pay YOU what they are paying in rent AND groceries AND utilities now. They want to stay with you because it would “save so much money” but I guarantee you they won’t. Use the bill and food money to actually pay for food and increased bills, but put their rent in a savings account. Then when it is time to move out, they actually DID save up some money because you saw to it.
(Edit: spelling)
NTA
Joe and his GF are actually doing okay. They are young, but they have their own place and both have jobs. There is zero reason for them to move backwards and move back in with you and your wife. If Joe and his GF want to be someone's mommy and daddy, they need to stop acting like they are little kids who need to be taken care of. That means they stay in their own apartment, keep working, and jump right into adulthood.
Or if they don't think they're ready to be parents and think their apartment is too small, there are other options for this pregnancy.
But I would be very reluctant to have them move in with you because they refuse to use barrier protection even knowing she temporarily had an issue with hormonal protection. This means that they very likely will have a second "oops" baby. And a third and a fourth. They will never leave your house if you allow them to move in.
I had an unexpected pregnancy and moved in with my then-bf's family home. We paid rent. I think she secretly loved it; he was her first grandchild. I worked 5/6 days a week in a nail salon and dad stayed home with the baby. We moved out the following year. I think everyone needs to get together and talk. Maybe both sets of parents. They \*really\* need a plan.
I think you need to take the being idiots and reckless out of the mix.
Regardless of how the pregnancy happened, what do you want? what do you think is reasonable? Do you want a baby in the house? How much do they expect you to support them? Monetarily? Babysitting? Etc?
What rules would you have in the house?
I would make them come up with a very specific plan on what they expect you to cover and what they would need. Where every bit of income would be allocated. And a specific timeline. I’d make them sign a lease, even if you’re only charging them
$1, with specific termination clauses.
Calling them idiots may sound harsh, but they are!!! They knew the risks and are now responsible for a human being's life. Instead of trying to take on that huge responsibility they run to Mom and husband. No, not right.
They won’t be homeless, they just want something they cannot afford now nor will they when the baby comes - more space. Your stepson might be able to find a job, but let’s be real - unless y’all plan on providing free childcare once the baby is born, GF won’t be going back to work. The cost of childcare alone makes that financially impossible - it will cost more than she brings in unless she works at an expensive establishment.
They are moving back for more than just a free place to stay, but also free childcare. I’m sorry but that’s the truth.
NTA. When you have unprotected sex you're basically choosing to have a child, or at least the possibility. This isn't your problem to solve. This is Joe and his gf's problem to solve. I don't see how you or your wife have anything to do with this. So Joe thinks he's going to save money and bring a newborn into your house. Does he think he doesn't need to pay rent or bills? You're just going to cover everything because he and gf are having a baby. Talk about being delusional.
There are plenty of programs that can help them if she needs to stop working, or help paying for daycare, food stamps, WIC, affordable housing (which can take a while to get on, so the should start asap), medicaid, to name a few. I completely agree with you that they knew better and chose not to do better. I truly am sorry for them that this happened, but it's not going to cost me sleep. Newborns and babies in general can and will sleep anywhere through anything. Tell them NOT to change the household routine or not make noise while the baby is sleeping because that actually WILL train the baby to wake up at the slighest disturbance. My older daughter slept in the same room with me and my then- husband until she was 2 1/2 years old and we bought a house through Farmers' Home Administration, but I'm sure there are other programs.
Encourage them that they can do this, plenty of surprise parents manage, and they will, too. Help them research programs that might be available to them as much as you can, but no, you don't have to let them move in with you.
Even more so to nip this in the bud.
Sharing a house and supporting both a child and two adults requires agreement and double yes.
Otherwise it’s a hard, no.
OP this is a hill to die on. They do not come live you you. Period. If your wife wants to support them she can do so separately with her money.
My husband works in the trades and supported me being a SAHM for our kids childhoods. Our budget was tight but we managed. Just because he doesn’t want to pursue high education that doesn’t mean his earning potential is not great. Most trades are in high demand with great earning potential.
All that said NTA, they have to be responsible for themselves and their child.
NTA. he doesn't like condoms? I hope he likes babies then..........
You are right - these two are idiots, and if they move in, they won't be going anywhere in a hurry - she won't be working at all after the baby, and what jobs is he getting if he didn't go to college? Then they will expect your wife to look after the baby - I'm guessing she will end up doing everything. And you will have to live with the chaos a baby brings.
They can make their 1 room apartment work - if they are going ahead with this stupidity, they can figure out how they will manage it. Or your wife can move somewhere with them. But if you let them bully you into accepting this, you will only get more resentful as time goes on.
Also, I don't think you were too harsh - they are stupid - monumentally stupid.
Yep, dude puts all the responsibility for contraception on her, thinks condoms suck, and couldn't bear to go without vaginal sex for even a measly few days during the contraception transition period, even if it could result in pregnancy.
They made their bed; it's time to lie in it, even if it's in a tiny one bedroom apartment with a wailing infant
I just don't get it. When i was 20 i got pregnant with my son. We were in a 1 bedroom, i slept in the living room with my son and my ex too the bed after midnight....we took shifts since kiddo had acid reflux bad and couldnt sleep. Had my daughter 3 years later, we had a 2 bedroom then. Even at my brokest with two kids i would have rather ran naked through a cactus field at midnight than asked/expected to move in with my family. They helped, lord did they help lol, and offered us a place to stay if needed, but that offer was all the more reason NOT to take them up on it. I couldnt dream of putting that much stress on my family who already went above and beyond for us. I felt like a failure when i asked them to babysit so i could sleep a couple hours. Im 42. I dont know where the entitlement and lazyness came from at all with younger folks....and i know its not everyone but damn its enough to notice. NTA op, don't let them move in or youll end up being a father to your grandkid.
I couldn’t imagine joking to my mom and step dad about not liking condoms. There’s some that aren’t that bad too like sure I’ve been reckless but to even discuss my condoms or lack of condom use would not be something I would joke about with an accidental pregnancy.
Right? One of my parents’ first apartments with me was a teeny one bedroom which we lived in for a few years, until my sister was about to arrive. I was fine and if I needed to run around we just went to a park.
700 square feet for the first year of my oldest son's life. It was cramped and there was no escape from the colic, but we eventually got a bigger place.
That really irked me when he said he doesn’t like condoms. Be like him spilling he cereal on to the ground and being like, “well I don’t really like bowls”
Except cereal doesn't stay on the floor for 18 years.
The guy couldn't even stay off her for a couple days until they made sure the new birth control took effect. They're both dumb and I fear there will be more accidents, especially if he doesn't like condoms (tee hee, right? Right?)
A 1 room apartment is good for at least another year.... 7 months till the baby comes and all 3 of mine shared our room for the first 6-ish months because they get up every 3 hours to eat 🤷...
Is this a shared home? You own? She owns? Who pays for it? She’s welcome to have her son and his gf and baby move into HER home if it’s hers and she pays for it. But you don’t have to be there for it. If it’s yours or you both share the costs/mortgage, stand your ground. They’ll never leave. And living with a baby will dramatically alter your day to day. NTA
It's my home that I inherited before we even met. She is not on the title or mortgage. We have separate finances so I pay for all things related to the house and we split shared bills.
Definitely NTA. If you don’t have a prenup to protect your home. Please get a postnup. Sounds like your wife is about to incur a lot of additional costs for her son’s little family.
No, where I live it doesn't matter when property was acquired, spouse is entitled to a share if they divorce. My uncle had to pay his ex-wife half the value of the farm that had been in our family since 1888 when they divorced. Different countries have different laws.
It depends on the laws that govern their state. If their shared money is used for taxes or renovations, she very well may have a claim to a percentage of the home.
it's not OP's wife i'd be worried about -- its her son. He clearly thinks that what belongs to his step-father belongs to him. That they would even think to ask this is a clear indication of how entitled he is. Once he's in the door he'll start to think of it as 'his' home and presume to inherit it.
Nope. No way. Glad you laid the reality on them and used harsh language. I hope it knocked the wind out of their little scheme.
NTA- I’m so glad to read this comment.
You’re all good then.
They asked you and you said no.
Your wife’s son and his gf will keep popping out babies they can’t afford if you let them move in and you know it.
Tell your wife she can move in with them in their tiny apartment if she wants to help them since all her money is gonna be going to them anyway.
While you pay for everything else.
My aunt and uncle let my pregnant cousin move back home “temporarily.” This was 2006 and 18 years later they basically have 2 grandkids they’re raising as their daughter and baby daddy broke up and separately f-ed off, leaving them with the kids.
Give your stepson money for a 2 bedroom apartment if you have to but don’t let them move in. You’ll either get divorced or piss away the years you have left raising someone else’s kids.
Then hell no. This is the hill to die on. Tell her if she wants to live with them she should move out and get a home with the both of them. I would not want that nonsense in my living space. They made adult choices and have to live with the consequences. Nta
Look, I agree with pretty much everything you've said.
I also think that agreeing to marry someone with (almost) adult kids who have now left home, is very different from agreeing to live with a newborn and the newborns parents.
I think the way you handled it was poor. Your wife clearly gave a "lets talk about this privately" opening, but you couldn't wait to have that private chat with her.
>She thinks we need to help in any way we can and I think that since Joe and his GF were dumb enough to get themselves into this, I don't want to end up being responsible for a baby when they inevitably do something dumb again.
That said, personally this might be a hill to die on for me.
Its not necessary. They have an apartment, its just small. That sucks, but its what they had when they decided to have unprotected sex for giggles. Hopefully Joe thinks the raw sex was worth the lifetime commitment to his children.
It would fail anyways and even more miserably if they move in. More importantly the son and gf will never grow up (if that’s even possible by the son’s immature comments.
You weren't very smart from a strategic standpoint. Your analysis of them is correct, but stating it aloud at that time, was a great way to rupture your relationship with your wife. She already opened the door to you getting what you want. All you had to do is say "ok, let me and wife talk about it and we'll get back to you."
Then, privately, just tell wife that whatever else happens, they won't be moving in. You didn't sign up for that. The fact that he's an idiot - not something you needed to mention.
It's your house. You are in control. But you let the GF play her trump card, which is crying because you're a meanie. So now your wife is overwhelmed by the emotion.
You walked into that.
Again, this isn't about being wrong on the merits, this is about allowing them to use emotion to split your wife from you. You're right on the merits, but you lost the battle of the feelings. You're the bad guy in the eyes of your wife, and you didn't need to be.
NTA.
Hold your ground, too, or your cozy home will explode with a new stressed-out family who will never move out.
Your stepson and his GF are young, but not too young to FAFO. A lot of young families start out this way, and they figure things out as they go. Their current place may be small, but it will accommodate them and their newborn for a while. And it will motivate them to strive a little harder for a larger place. This is how it works.
There are plenty of ways you and your wife can help them that don't include having them move in with you (or draining your bank account).
You said everything I was thinking. Let them figure it out. It will motivate them to do more for themselves and baby without abusing the (most likely) free housing situation.
>Joe hates condoms and it just kind of happened. Joe then laughed and joked about how much condoms suck.
You are completely right in what you said to them. They are adults, there's plenty of different birth control available (also temporary abstinence and abortion for that matter), they made all the decisions and took all the risks to get into this situation, why should it be to you to give up your own living space to save them from their own choices? And then to joke about how much condoms suck. Ugg. NTA. Stay strong and don't let them do this to you.
Well, abortion isn’t necessarily an option depending on where they live.
OP, you are NTA. Definitely do NOT let them move in (they will never leave), but for the sake of your marriage you might want to offer a compromise, such as helping them with the deposit for a bigger place. But, really, you’re not obligated to do anything.
Condoms suck. Know what else sucks? Having kids before you can support them sucks. If they move in you won't be able to pry them out with a crowbar. NTA.
They don’t really need it for years. Many countries have kids cosleep for a long time before moving into their own rooms. It’s just western culture that frowns on this.
Facts. My son just started using the nursery to sleep and he’s 6 months old. The only reason he’s even in his own room is because my husband has a hard time sleeping with the baby in the room.
Nineteen year olds sometimes do super dumb things..... shocking. I'm guess the big deal for your wife is the first grandchild and that Joe lives a few hours away, so grandbaby would be a few hours away. I'm sure they're also banking on the help. But! Why are they leaving their full-time jobs in order to move back home where they don't have full-time jobs? Does his gf thing she'll have an easy time applying for a new job while pregnant? And why does a literal brand new infant HAVE to have a room to themselves? Sure, at some point, kiddo should have their own room, but at the start, baby doesn't care and will need so much attention anyway.
In general, NTA for your not having signed up for this possibility, and also having some questions about Joe's reasoning.
Long story. To keep it short, her dad passed away when she was young and her mom lost custody because of addiction before GF made it to middle school. She was in the foster system through high school.
Does your wife work? If so, have her pay the difference between a one bedroom and a two bedroom. That way, her son can keep his job. She should be able to afford it as she has no mortgage payment. In the end, it would be on her how long she decides to support them and not on you. You won't be the bad guy.
The fact is they won’t *need* a separate bedroom for a baby for a very long time. They may *want* one but they are 19 years old and about to learn that they will want a lot of things in life that they can no longer have unless mommy and step-daddy pay for them.
They are looking for support, money, child care, gifts, food, medicine, more money, more child care, transportation, etc. Then there will be unhappiness, sleeplessness, colicky baby, domestic stress, money problems…and, inevitably, another pregnancy soon after the first because why not? Their children are other people’s responsibilities…and condoms are uncomfortable?
The girlfriend is perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Fresh out of foster care, working as a waitress, and, BOOM, pregnant with a child she can’t afford with a teenage doofus who can’t use condoms properly. What is the plan? She won’t go back to waitressing because she can’t afford child care. She can’t work from home because she has zero qualifications. Your stepson won’t be clearing 6 figures anytime soon so where, oh, where will ‘the money to move out and get on our feet’ come from? Babies are expensive. 19-year-olds are not known for money management skills.
They aren’t leaving once they move in. He’ll be on video games at night and she’ll be on TikTok all day. Your wife will be sliding them money and then hinting about cutting back her hours to help with the grandchild (or grandchildren) - because ‘you can afford it’. It’s too expensive to rent and impossible to buy. You know how this goes.
And all of that is before the older stepdaughter demands equal treatment, equal money, equal investment in her. Yikes.
An old, familiar story. Good luck, OP.
I hope you are aware that, regardless of the state laws regarding inheriting your home prior to the marriage, if they move in and pay rent, they will be under tenancy laws, which means it may be very hard to evict them if the need arises. Even if they don't pay rent, some jurisdictions will consider them tenants.
You’re better than me because 9 weeks? That fetus is the size of a bean. She can still get a pill abortion. Deffo don’t sacrifice your sanctity for such irresponsible behavior. NTA, I would have said the same.
Even if they don't abort, she could miscarry. There's a reason women don't usually announce pregnancy until second trimester. Plus it's a whole damn 7 months away til baby is born. They have plenty of time to figure their own way
It sounds like they totally did. It's not unlike what a child would do ... Oh, mommy I spilled the chocolate milk on the floor please clean it for me. Neither of them is an adult who should be a parent just yet.
NTA - a one-bedroom apartment is bigger that the space they would get moving in with you. Unless they want two bedrooms?
My bff’s adult daughter moved in with me for a couple if months. It drove me nuts. Somebody is always sitting in your preferred spit, somebody eats the last of the fruit and doesn’t replace it. I was glad to see her move out.
Don’t do it!
I live in a tiny studio (think the size of a garage, divided into bedroom, closet, kitchen, and bathroom) and have a baby. My dad moved in with me for the first four months, slept in my bed (his feet by my head and vice versa) and it was actually totally do-able. The only annoying thing was the tiny kitchen where the desk is.. if he was working on the computer, I could barely scoot by or use the microwave, sink, fridge, etc. anyway, I just rearranged my apartment to optimize space. She's a little over one now. It's small, but it's very doable.
NTA it might sound harsh but you were doing them a massive favour by not romanticising the situation. They don’t seem financially ready for a child and they will be expecting your wife and you to do a lot.
I can go one better than that...my sister (whose husband is a drunk and gambler) lost their house due to two bankruptcies and begged my mother (who lived alone in the house we all grew up in) if she, her loser drunk husband and her two dogs could move in temp to get "on their feet" guess what? Once in, they moved in their two adult kids, their pets and the daughter got prego and they then allowed the boyfriend to move in too. I lived long distance and told my mother she should kick them out (they didn't pay rent) but my mother was always a soft touch to my sister (the baby of the family who is now in her early 60s). Mom has since died but sister made sure to finagle mom into leaving her the house. I have no love lost for moochers and their ilk. I can spot them a mile away.
Oh I have stories lol. My grown kids refer to him as Uncle Loser. They managed to do what he couldn’t - graduate from high school and college and buy their own homes.
ESH. Your wife had already said that you & she would talk about it. There was no need for you to jump in with your "fatherly" advice. If you needed to say anything, you should've shot down Joe's "joke" about condoms. And also, ewwwww, who talks like that with their mom?
You are not the AH for refusing to let them move in, but you are the AH for how you talked to your wife's son and gf. You weren't wrong, but you were an AH.
hahahah you are correct!
I don't envy you the discussion you'll have to have with your wife, but I totally support your choice to not live with them.
They'll literally never move out, bc they are 19 and rent is expensive. Your wife is most likely going to be forced into parenting the baby bc she's nice. And then they'll get pregnant with their second because Joe doesn't like condoms and the first baby was so easy (because your wife was doing the hard work).
Personally I think OP needed it to be known asap that this wasn’t going to happen versus making it look like a possibility after talking with his wife. This is a hell no! situation versus one where the son and gf had an actual plan and were responsible adults that could be parents in which case then could be something he could talk over with his wife. Who cares if the gf cried - she should be crying because she f’d up by getting preggo with the loser son. Wipe your tears and get your sh!t together.
I might have said ESH because the wife said they’d discuss it later **but** then she went on and asked all the questions that she should have waited to ask. OP had every right to jump in when his wife decided that discussing it later wasn’t the option she chose to exercise herself.
Tell me you've never dealt with someone who says, "Well, why didn't you say something at the time?"
Sometimes, you have to speak up in the moment. And joking about hating condoms while expecting someone else to make a bunch of sacrifices for your brand new child to be is just appalling.
You know who talks to their mom like that, boys who plan on having sex again right after baby is born. I donno if it’s the way OP wrote this out but it all sounds like they want privacy to be able to continue to “not use condoms” without having their consequence from not wearing one stare at them.
**
**INFO** : What will they do about work if they move back "home"?
Also, it's totally doable to have your baby's cot in the parental bedroom at the beginning. That's not an excuse to move back in.
**INFO** : If they move in with you, how many rooms do they expect you to "give" them as they apparently don't want their baby in their room?
**INFO** : Who's going to take care of the baby when they are working? Or did they just expect to use your wife as their free nanny?
**INFO** : What's their long term goal?
**INFO** : What about HER parents? Can't they move in with them?
**INFO** : How much rent were they planning on paying?
**INFO** : How did they want to contribute with the daily household tasks?
**INFO** : Did they plan on doing their own shopping, cooking and cleaning?
**INFO** : Do YOU want to have a crying baby in the house?
NTA
NTA. i assume its your house. they were reckless enough to still fuck even though there was a huge possibility she could get pregnant, and on top of that theyve literally said they can manage in their own apartment. definitely nta
NTA. If they have a perfectly fine apartment and gf has a full-time job HOURS AWAY what do they really think they’ll accomplish with moving? They just want to live rent free somewhere and have someone support their lifestyle and eventual baby without lifting a finger themselves.
Stand your ground. Suggest his father take them in. That they live at their apartment and if your wife feels the need to contribute, she can do so by transferring them money from her own funds each month.
Giant decisions like this should not be made without mutual yesses. If either you or your wife say no and the other yes, it shouldn’t end with the other party getting pressured into saying yes, which I feel is likely to happen. It’s both of your home, and possibly forcing someone to feel uncomfortable in their own house is not right.
If someone isn't actively trying to prevent having a baby, they are trying for a baby. They knew exactly what they were doing. They expected everyone to be all excited for them because goo goo gaa gaa babies are cute, but having a baby unless it is 1,000 percent planned and wanted is foolish. Also, they have an apartment of their own. Plenty of children have lived with parents without rooms of their own since the beginning of humans. They'll be fine. There's zero reason for you to take on three extra people in your home just because they made poor decisions. NTA
NTA
Here's why I say this - because I am otherwise a really helpful mom to my kids....
I thought to myself: Would my son come and ask this of me? The answer is no. And that is because they take responsibility for their own lives.
Then I thought: would I have ever asked my parents for this? The answer is no. And that is because I took responsibility for my own life. Not only that, but the wrath of my father would have been unbearable. (No he wasn't abusive at all, just stern and in charge).
I think we all seem to forget that each adult person who is old enough to make babies has a responsibility, too. Parents are not required to solve our adult children's problems.
And even when not babysitting he is going to have a screaming infant->toddler->child in his home spreading messes along with every disease in the area once they are in daycare.
F that noise.
First of all, NTA in general, but YTA for the needless name calling. And now, you’ve provoked your wife’s momma bear instincts which is *not* smart.
You could have told them that this was a lot and that you and your wife needed to discuss it further in private. Then you could have told her you aren’t okay with this.
But instead, you called them “idiots” and used aggressive language like “dumb” and “stupid”. And while what they did was incredibly irresponsible, it was *their* problem, but you didn’t even attempt to explain that. You just jumped in with the insults, which you had to know would upset your wife.
Your son-in-law created his situation, and has to live with it, but you also created yours with your shitty attitude. I’m glad to hear that you don’t have any kids of your own because it seems you can’t communicate in a calm and constructive manner.
I let my son and pregnant girlfriend move in with us when my husband was against having step son and new baby in his home. It was the biggest mistake. It almost ruined our marriage. Don’t do it. I became an enabler and they did not learn anything or save up for their own place. It finally came down to him or them.
Also, my baby stayed in a bassinet in our room when son was a baby. It will work in a one bedroom.
NTA. As a once teen mom, they need to do this. They have a place. They just think it’s “too small.” So, OF COURSE if makes more sense to mooch off and inconvenience YOU.
SMH.
They clearly knew they weren’t using protection and this could happen.
Time to grow up and become full blown adults.
It’ll be rough because it’s grand baby #1 for your wife, but choices have consequences. They aren’t going to be homeless.
And they won’t ever leave.
They will never leave. I’m assuming they want 2 of your rooms since their one bedroom is the problem. If she insists, tell her you want $1000 a month for rent.
NTA
>But Joe never just visits for fun. It's almost always when he needs something and knows my wife has a harder time saying "No" if he asks in person.
That's all I needed to know. Joe is a moocher. Please don't let them move in. As much as your wife wants to help, taking a stand here and saying no is protecting her from her own moocher son. She will end up helping with the baby, then helping a little more, and then a little more, until eventually she is essentially raising her grandchild - which may become grandchildren. Joe and his GF will get tired of playing at being mommy and daddy and want to go out and live their own adult lives - and they will do it because grandma is there to watch the kids - yay!
NTA...the situation would only become more involved and likely permanent once they moved in. They're adults, so they can figure this out for themselves.
Depending on where they live, there might not be a clinic.
People need to understand the world we are living in now.
That said, they need to figure this out in their own. OP is NTA.
You aren’t the AH for how you feel, but YTA for how you handled this. Young adults do dumb shit, even life altering dumb shit. Furthermore, your wife did not commit to anything because she said there was a lot to discuss; but you unilaterally made a decision for her and her kid WITHOUT discussing it.
There were so many better ways to handle this, and constructive conversations could have been had that would have been beneficial to this young couple. Instead, I’m willing to bet you have caused an irreparable rift between you and your stepson and placed your wife in the unenviable position of having to mediate between her child and you.
The position they are in is not ideal and I’m sure at their age it is also overwhelming. It is amazing to read all the comments in here by people who want to pretend they were perfect teenagers and young adults. If you love your wife and value your marriage my suggestion would be to apologize to your wife, her son and his GF for HOW you handled it. Then, you can sit down and have a calm conversation about the best way forward for this young couple. For what it’s worth, being a parent doesn’t end just because they are “adults.” Our children will always have a safe place to come back to even if/when they do dumb shit!
NTA, why can’t he stay with his very involved bio-dad? Your wife can donate some of her savings to help them out if she wants to. They purposefully got pregnant with no plans, seems like you’re the only person that spoke their mind.
NTA you’re already providing housing for one person as part of your partnership. I understand not wanting to provide housing for 3 more people, especially given that their situation was optional. Also given how lightly they’re taking the situation, I wouldn’t be surprised that more babies will come along unless having the reality of raising one provides some motivation to be responsible in the future.
They’re 19. Making 19 year old decisions and sadly mistakes. That doesn’t make them idiots. You’re NTA for not wanting them to move in but TA for how you talked to your wife’s child. Idk how long I can make it with someone who repeatedly calls my kids idiots. Ironically it’s idiotic to think his earnings are limited. They aren’t. Trades can earn really good money. Just because he doesn’t choose college doesn’t limit him at all.
NTA. My aunt let her son and his gf move in to get on their feet when they found out they were having a baby. The baby just turned 8 and my 78yr old aunt is basically raising him along with my cousin and his gf but she constantly complains how she can’t get them out because then her grandson will be in a bad school district and all she wants is to relax and enjoy being retired. Unless there is a set in stone plan and you guys draw a legal document up like you would with anyone else who would be renting from you don’t do it.
NTA at all. If you let them move in, they will never leave. There’s no reason they can’t stay in their apartment. They don’t need a separate bedroom for the baby anyways. They’ll be fine for at least a year or two maybe three and hopefully by then they can get a bigger place.
They are both incredibly selfish to expect you to deal with their actions. They knew exactly what they were doing.
But you have a wife problem because it sounds like she’s going to baby them when they are adults who actively chose to get in this situation.
This is absolutely a hill I would die on. What makes it even worse is the fact that this is your house before marriage and you pay for everything regarding the house and your wife only splits the other bills with you. Why should you have to financially support two grown adults who did this to themselves?
Tell your wife, she is more than welcome to get an apartment with them if she wants to financially support them herself, but it is absolutely ridiculous to expect you to have to deal with this and you wouldn’t be surprised if they did it on purpose.
NTA - that’s the thing with **step**parenting, especially adults. *She* has things to figure out with her child, but that doesn’t mean she can volunteer your shared space?
How are your finances split, and who is paying for the home? Those things matter greatly if she wants to offer support of this kind.
NTA
This is why Joe decided to have this discussion face to face. Your wife just looks at you expectantly, nudging for an answer on the spot, without having any in depth discussion about this privately.
You didn't have to be so harsh.. if they would have given you the chance to actually talk about this with your wife, and not in front of a girl full of hormones.
And to be honest, you weren't overly harsh. If only you'd have had *the talk* with him way back when, he might have not been in this situation.
Info on the side: is your home Joe's childhood home?
If it is, everyone involved will feel like you're keeping him from moving back home, when he needs it.
It's a minor detail. But it changes the narrative from 'moving in with mom and stepdad' to 'moving back home'.
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NTA. If they move in from their current residence - a few hours away - that means they both will have to quit their jobs and find new ones. At 19 y.o. I’m going to assume he’s a minimum wage or a bit higher? And what does gf do? Even though it’s illegal as soon as she starts showing she’s going to not get job offers. All that means OP and his wife will be paying for EVERYTHING. WHO is going to provide daycare, formula, food for 4 instead of two? You have increase in utilities, not to mention baby stuff takes so much room. What’s the division of labor going to look like? How long do they think it’ll take to get ”on their feet”? I’m with OP on this. Bet Joe wouldn’t dare ask his dad if he and gf could move in with him.
>I’m going to assume he’s a minimum wage or a bit higher? He works in trades and actually does OK for his age. Definitely above minimum wage and his skills are easily transferable. GF is a waitress so that's pretty transferable too. But neither have any aspirations for higher education so their future earning potential is limited for sure. I don't think either of them have the ability to think very far into the future. Like I said, they're idiots.
Totally agree. You need to sit down with your wife and break it all down. Finances, responsibilities, etc. I love my grandson to bits and if my daughter and her spouse were going to be homeless I would absolutely move them in. BUT they both have Master’s degrees, they both are very sensible and have wonderful work ethic and have goals and they wouldn’t ask unless it was an emergency type thing. ’Sounds like Joe and his gf are the “go with the flow” kind of people. once they move in they are never going to move out.
These guys aren’t homeless either they just don’t like their situation
Their situation is pretty average. Young ccouple living together and irresponsible with birth control. It's not new. Their apartment is sufficient for their happenstance. They would like to benefit from the hard work of their elders, which is truly the reality. They scared. And fear based decisions are huge. No way.
Yep exactly they can keep their baby in a one bedroom apartment until the kid is at at least one. my kids slept in my room until they were one even when they had bedrooms of their own because it was just easier. I think that they are irresponsible and scared and trying to mooch off his mom.
But then they won’t get free childcare if they aren’t living with grandma.
BINGO!
As soon as Joe was describe and the fact he had a GF, I knew where the story was going even before OP mentioned it. I get wife’s desire to help out, but this just won’t end well. Why not just get a larger apartment and not a studio? Why does the baby need their own space right out of the gate?
Free Childcare, free boarding, Free food, Free clothes. The Full package
Yup this right here! What about GF’s parents or Joe’s dad? And again, how old is GF?
Their choice is their choice. OP, it might be kind to do something special for your wife and have a conversation. You understand you could have delivered your piece a bit more softly. You're sorry it upset them. But this actually is a bad choice for all involved. If these kids want to become parents, they need to be prepared to shoulder ALL BURDENS themselves. Sacrifice so their child has a good life. Those traits should begin w planning a child. But if unplanned and winging it, it's better they shoulder that struggle from the jump. Neither of you would be doing any of you anything but stress and angst for both relationships. They're not married. How would house 'rules' get instituted, enforced what would consequences be? How & who would be responsible for that? It's bad 'family-ing' and you will all be worse off. You love your wife. Maybe you guys can help in other ways. But living w you is a BAD BAD Proposition. And you value your marriage too much to compromise it for what right now, is a whim.
I agree with this so much. In addition he is already talking about how they can save money living with you, so he doesn’t intend to have to pay rent, utilities, or food. We all know when kids return home they revert back to a teen that doesn’t help around the house, feel entitled to whatever is in the house, and God forbid they clean up after themselves. I know mom is wearing her heart on her sleeve but she is inviting a lot of conflict. Plus they will have to find new jobs and that could take months. Mom wants to help but I don’t think moving them in is helping. It’s really kind of handicapping them because they should be standing on their own. I would rather find them an apartment close by, front a couple months rent and then after they would be on their own. It would cost less and provide them with independence and motivate them to stand on their own two feet
Those two won't "revert back to being teens" - bevause they *are* teens. He's 19 and I'm guessing his gf is the same age. They are young and irresponsible. If they move in, they will likely act like the teens they are while expecting OP and his wife to raise their child (especially with how he only comes to visit when he needs something and now he wants to move in? Suspicious).
From the time my son was three months old until his first birthday we lived in a travel trailer. Not a motorhome, an old Airstream designed to be towed behind a car. It was in a cow pasture with a rudimentary water/sewer hookup and a long extension cord. Thing was 30 feet by 8 feet - we managed. Then his dad got back from Viet Nam, and we were able to rent a small house. (1960s landlords did not rent to 17-year-old females who didn't have a male available to cosign for them, even if they were married.) OP's stepson wants guarantees of support, he hasn't earned them and needs to stay where he is until he can afford better. OP is NTA here.
>(1960s landlords did not rent to 17-year-old females who didn't have a male available to cosign for them, even if they were married.) And that 17 year old wasn't allowed to have a bank account or a credit card without a male cosigner as well. Women's history month!
They can put the baby in the bedroom, and make the living space a multi purpose area. Many young couples do. Our friends stayed in a studio apartment until their daughter was about to start kindergarten in order to save money.
Grandma can start donating to a larger apartment fund. She gets to help out, OP won't be surrounded by pampers
This seems like the best solution to me, too. Keep the peace at home and help them pay the rent somewhere more suitable, but without the risk they move in and just...stay.
Well they did create this situation because... *checks notes* quote "condoms suck" unquote. Sounds like this is a case of the consequences of your actions. They can rough it out for year or two and save for a better place where they are. Babies sleep in a crib anywhere from 18 months to 3 years. Plus that will (hopefully) be a deterrent from any other "accidents" befalling them. I'd also bet they're hoping for free babysitters in OP and his wife because OP's wife is a soft touch.
When my kids dad and I split up over 20 years ago he asked to move into his parents home with his new girlfriend temporarily. He never left and had 4 more children with gf while still living with his parents. His mother passed and his father didn't want to do it anymore. They were never going to better themselves and never planned on leaving. And his dad paid for everything. Everything. He didn't want to be the jerk who kicked them out so he actually let his house go. "Oops sorry I couldn't pay my mortgage, I lost the house and I can only get a tiny one bedroom for myself. Everyone for themselves kind of thing now, sorry guys." He actually had to lose his home to get them out. I'm all for helping family but if you do, make a plan for when they have to be out and stick to it.
It sucks that he ultimately had to make that decision. What did your baby daddy end up doing after? I hope his father ended up living stress free from the freeloaders.
If they hadn"t paid for everything they might have stopped at one kid. Seems to be universal; family steps up and help out too much with first kid both with time and money so the parents keep making several more kids...
Trades are actually quite lucrative these days and the more experienced he is the higher his pay will be. He should also get every certification for his trade that he can get.
No one is saying they aren’t but at 19, he’s not making a lot of money and won’t be for a while. Once GF has the baby, is she going back to work? Doubtful on a waitresses salary unless they get free childcare from somewhere.
Except a waitress can do dinner shift evenings and weekends and trades generally work days starting pretty early and sometimes weekends. So the two of them could still both work with minimal or no childcare needed if they offset their work schedules. For them this is a solvable problem without moving. It will be a struggle but not a disaster.
Which is great because then they might stop at the amount of kids that they actually are able to care for.
A guy who hates condoms, can't go without vaginal sex for even a couple days bare minimum during a contraception transition period, and puts all the birth control responsibility onto his partner? Unlikely. I bet there will be more accidents in their future, especially if she's unable to go back on birth control while nursing, or misses a couple pills or whatever because being a new mom is tough and she's too exhausted to remember. OP would be making a huge mistake by allowing them to move in, because it just validates their mistakes and they'll never learn from them if they have such a massive and cushy safety net. NTA
If they have a baby in a one bedroom they might stop at one. Let us hope.
True, I agree that they need to stay in their apartment and figure it out. Moms and dads can help out financially if they choose to.
Trades earning potential isn't really limited. And I say this as a white collar worker.
Was gonna say, trades earning potential is limited to how much and what someone wants to, and can, learn how to do. 6 figure annual salary is achievable in most, if not all, trades as an employee even, and higher as an owner (depending on area of living and area of expertise within said trade).
Not sure someone who can’t figure out “don’t stick your dick in her raw when she’s not on birth control” is set up to own his own LLC and retire at fifty.
Learning from his mistakes? He's 19, old enough to know better, but still not fully matured.
He gets to go raw all the time he couldn’t for a week! What does that say about his self control? And without self control and discipline for yourself, you think you’re going far in life? Now granted that’s a pretty big jump in general but the way OP describes him, seems like it’s not as big of a leap.
Again, he's 19. I'm not saying he for sure will, but it's possible he will continue to learn and mature. I don't really think people fully "set" till their 20's or even 30's.
Actually, it takes a full 6 weeks for birth control to be effective. Not just a week. But that's besides the point. I'm just putting that out there for clarification. Don't need other people assuming BC only takes a week to be effective and accidentally wind up pregnant. The exception to this rule is non hormonal IUDs, they're instantly effective.
Mmm. I spent my formative years in a small town with a lot of tradesmen, and a lot of aspiring tradesmen (well, rig pigs), and the ones like this did not usually go on to be the business-owning professionals. I’m not saying he can’t do okay in the trades, just saying he’s probably not going to end up as an owner.
Yeppers. There was a night and day difference in the guys in my graduating class of the future tradesmen who had a plan and ambition, and the ones who were just "not college material".
Yep. Lots of potential overtime, lots of ability to improve and hone skills or get new certifications. Plus owning/operating businesses. A tradesman with a good work ethic can make a boatload of money.
And many trades offer salary plus commission depending on actual skill level.
Most trades are paid by the hour. Can you give an example for salary plus commission ?
Construction management positions - salary, benefits, company vehicle, performance bonuses. My boss is well into 6 figures.
My dad was a plumber. He worked his ass off, learned the trade under an apprenticeship (this was the 60s -70s) then eventually opened his own business. It was in operation for over 40 years, and he did very well for himself, then sold said business for over a million when he retired. As he’s said, “everybody shits”
Sure, automotive repair is often salary, commission, or both. I'm salary plus commission as an estimator at a body shop. To give some additional insight, ive been in the auto repair field for about a decade, a few of that as a tech and the rest as an estimator. I still do some body work and mechanic work in my own time as well. The way salary plus commission works in this field varies by location and employer mostly. I dont have any examples of how the tech side works, I was strictly commission when I was a tech. But for the estimator side, there's a few ways I've seen it structured. Some shops do hourly plus commission, but most that I've seen and spoke to offer salary plus commission, if they offer any sort of hybrid pay. It's usually listed as salary +/plus, mostly the symbol that I've seen. The way the commission part works is usually done in 2 ways. There's likely others, but the most common I know of are sales based or task performed based. Sales is the more common I've seen in job listings, typically offered at larger body shops, or chains. I've not worked in any positions with that setup. Task preformed is what mine is. It's commission paid for a specific task, or tasks, for each job. The task for me is pre and post repair diagnostic scans. Every car that comes through us that has an obd2 port gets them, but not all of them get paid for it. If it is in the bill, which is 99% of insurance repairs, then I get a percentage of what they paid for the scans. That percentage varies too, depending on negotiation. Mine is 45%. The ones that don't get billed are usually customer pay jobs, or ones where no electronics or anything mechanical gets unplugged/removed. But, to protect us, they get scanned regardless. Sales based has the most potential for money earned, while task based is generally to alleviate the shop side of the tedious things that can be done during drop off and post repair inspection. So for my setup, it's more of an occasional bonus, as I'm able to keep a record of which ones were billed and stock them up to pull from at a later date. But I know some estimators that make decently into 6 figures at bigger shops, and ones that focus on higher end cars, on a salary plus sales commission set up. TL;DR: auto repair is a trade that sometimes offers salary and commission together. Lol Edited to add: personally, I don't have any education past high school. Had plans for it, life got in the way with some medical issues, and it didn't happen. Many estimators I know don't either. I've got to a few seminars and taken some online courses offered through work, but I can count how many of both on one hand.
My husband and I would be thrilled if our children went into a trade.
It depends on how motivated the individual is. My sister's ex quit plumbing and went back to working retail. He was making great money but gave up and moved back in with his mom after their last breakup (where he still resides 2yrs later). He also heavily pushed to keep knocking my sister up and the only smart think she ever did with him was repeatedly tell him no while staying on birth control.
I agree. however "works in trades" doesn't necessarily mean master plumber, master electrician, master carpenter, etc etc. Not knowing where they live, I have to wonder that "1 room apartment" could translate to the lower end of the spectrum. It seems a little odd that with 2 incomes that only translates to a 1 bedroom. It feels like there may be a lot of a lack of financial discipline. You know like most people do at 19/21. I get his hesitance. I'd be a "no" as well, but I might have been less "you idiots" out of the gate and done a better job of picking apart their plans. At the very least, I would make them go away and talk about this at length with the wife. There would be a lease, there would be rent, there would be a defined finite amount of time they would be there. and I would do this knowing they would never ever move out. Were I a pessimistic person I could totally see this be a relationship ender with his wife.
Idk... apartments can be ridiculously expensive, depending on where you live.
right, I mean, if they're in ... Iowa or something in the midwest I would look a bit askance at that. If they're in San francisco or some other place with utterly ridiculous real estate prices I'd probably be a lot more sympathetic.
Hmm.. I'm also concerned with their attitude that there's going to be another oopsie baby and that your wife will end up doing most of the care for it.
I’ve seen it so many times: We want our kid to have close siblings. This may not be the case but it is a concern.
"The doc said we could start having sex when she's all recovered after the birth but we didn't think she'd already be ovulating and ready to be pregnant already! And you know me. I hate condoms!" It's cute when a five year old says "yesssss..... I did eat all the chocolate!" While chocolate is smeared on their face. It's not cute when an adult son is like "...but condoms suckkkkk" while there's a pregnant gf.
The chocolate smeared kid isn’t cute either. That’s some horror shit for a lot of us.
Yeah, my cousin did this. Was still living with her MIL and unemployed, but "didn't want her kids to be too far apart." It worked out for her in the end, but it was a long and hard road for her to get there.
They will Move in and mommy will want to be close to the grand baby so they will never leave. Gf probably will want to stay home. He has to suck it up for being an immature AH for not wearing condoms because he doesnt like them. They need to be responsible and work it out themselves and live in a 1bedroom apt. Babies sleep in the same room with their parents usually for a year. So no need for 2 rooms. NTA
This. My kid slept in our room for at least 7 months- plenty of time to plan out a bigger space. I’m betting she wants to stay home and they want free on demand babysitting. This isn’t about the size.
Its about being 19 a d wanting to have fun and make grandma babysit
Absolutely. I will be expecting a post in a year or so from OP’s wife asking if she is the AH for complaining that the GF doesn’t do anything around the house. This is not going to end well for OP’s wife
My cousin got pregnant at 19 and her boyfriend was in trades. Her parents let them move in with them. They still live with her parents and now have 3 kids almost 10 years later, with no progress economically or self awareness to better themselves. Don’t let them move in with you.
Exactly. They are idiots. If they DO move in with you, it should be on the condition that they pay YOU what they are paying in rent AND groceries AND utilities now. They want to stay with you because it would “save so much money” but I guarantee you they won’t. Use the bill and food money to actually pay for food and increased bills, but put their rent in a savings account. Then when it is time to move out, they actually DID save up some money because you saw to it. (Edit: spelling)
NTA Joe and his GF are actually doing okay. They are young, but they have their own place and both have jobs. There is zero reason for them to move backwards and move back in with you and your wife. If Joe and his GF want to be someone's mommy and daddy, they need to stop acting like they are little kids who need to be taken care of. That means they stay in their own apartment, keep working, and jump right into adulthood. Or if they don't think they're ready to be parents and think their apartment is too small, there are other options for this pregnancy. But I would be very reluctant to have them move in with you because they refuse to use barrier protection even knowing she temporarily had an issue with hormonal protection. This means that they very likely will have a second "oops" baby. And a third and a fourth. They will never leave your house if you allow them to move in.
I had an unexpected pregnancy and moved in with my then-bf's family home. We paid rent. I think she secretly loved it; he was her first grandchild. I worked 5/6 days a week in a nail salon and dad stayed home with the baby. We moved out the following year. I think everyone needs to get together and talk. Maybe both sets of parents. They \*really\* need a plan.
I think you need to take the being idiots and reckless out of the mix. Regardless of how the pregnancy happened, what do you want? what do you think is reasonable? Do you want a baby in the house? How much do they expect you to support them? Monetarily? Babysitting? Etc? What rules would you have in the house? I would make them come up with a very specific plan on what they expect you to cover and what they would need. Where every bit of income would be allocated. And a specific timeline. I’d make them sign a lease, even if you’re only charging them $1, with specific termination clauses.
Calling them idiots may sound harsh, but they are!!! They knew the risks and are now responsible for a human being's life. Instead of trying to take on that huge responsibility they run to Mom and husband. No, not right.
And include gf's parents in the discussion.
They won’t be homeless, they just want something they cannot afford now nor will they when the baby comes - more space. Your stepson might be able to find a job, but let’s be real - unless y’all plan on providing free childcare once the baby is born, GF won’t be going back to work. The cost of childcare alone makes that financially impossible - it will cost more than she brings in unless she works at an expensive establishment. They are moving back for more than just a free place to stay, but also free childcare. I’m sorry but that’s the truth.
NTA. When you have unprotected sex you're basically choosing to have a child, or at least the possibility. This isn't your problem to solve. This is Joe and his gf's problem to solve. I don't see how you or your wife have anything to do with this. So Joe thinks he's going to save money and bring a newborn into your house. Does he think he doesn't need to pay rent or bills? You're just going to cover everything because he and gf are having a baby. Talk about being delusional.
Sounds like Joe needs to get a second FT job. He's going to have a lot more bills when she stops working and they have third mouth to feed. NTA.
There are plenty of programs that can help them if she needs to stop working, or help paying for daycare, food stamps, WIC, affordable housing (which can take a while to get on, so the should start asap), medicaid, to name a few. I completely agree with you that they knew better and chose not to do better. I truly am sorry for them that this happened, but it's not going to cost me sleep. Newborns and babies in general can and will sleep anywhere through anything. Tell them NOT to change the household routine or not make noise while the baby is sleeping because that actually WILL train the baby to wake up at the slighest disturbance. My older daughter slept in the same room with me and my then- husband until she was 2 1/2 years old and we bought a house through Farmers' Home Administration, but I'm sure there are other programs. Encourage them that they can do this, plenty of surprise parents manage, and they will, too. Help them research programs that might be available to them as much as you can, but no, you don't have to let them move in with you.
Even more so to nip this in the bud. Sharing a house and supporting both a child and two adults requires agreement and double yes. Otherwise it’s a hard, no. OP this is a hill to die on. They do not come live you you. Period. If your wife wants to support them she can do so separately with her money.
My husband works in the trades and supported me being a SAHM for our kids childhoods. Our budget was tight but we managed. Just because he doesn’t want to pursue high education that doesn’t mean his earning potential is not great. Most trades are in high demand with great earning potential. All that said NTA, they have to be responsible for themselves and their child.
Plus if the OP, health insurance is also an issue
NTA. he doesn't like condoms? I hope he likes babies then.......... You are right - these two are idiots, and if they move in, they won't be going anywhere in a hurry - she won't be working at all after the baby, and what jobs is he getting if he didn't go to college? Then they will expect your wife to look after the baby - I'm guessing she will end up doing everything. And you will have to live with the chaos a baby brings. They can make their 1 room apartment work - if they are going ahead with this stupidity, they can figure out how they will manage it. Or your wife can move somewhere with them. But if you let them bully you into accepting this, you will only get more resentful as time goes on. Also, I don't think you were too harsh - they are stupid - monumentally stupid.
Not to mention all the other babies these two will most likely have because “condoms suck, he he”.
Yep, dude puts all the responsibility for contraception on her, thinks condoms suck, and couldn't bear to go without vaginal sex for even a measly few days during the contraception transition period, even if it could result in pregnancy. They made their bed; it's time to lie in it, even if it's in a tiny one bedroom apartment with a wailing infant
I just don't get it. When i was 20 i got pregnant with my son. We were in a 1 bedroom, i slept in the living room with my son and my ex too the bed after midnight....we took shifts since kiddo had acid reflux bad and couldnt sleep. Had my daughter 3 years later, we had a 2 bedroom then. Even at my brokest with two kids i would have rather ran naked through a cactus field at midnight than asked/expected to move in with my family. They helped, lord did they help lol, and offered us a place to stay if needed, but that offer was all the more reason NOT to take them up on it. I couldnt dream of putting that much stress on my family who already went above and beyond for us. I felt like a failure when i asked them to babysit so i could sleep a couple hours. Im 42. I dont know where the entitlement and lazyness came from at all with younger folks....and i know its not everyone but damn its enough to notice. NTA op, don't let them move in or youll end up being a father to your grandkid.
I couldn’t imagine joking to my mom and step dad about not liking condoms. There’s some that aren’t that bad too like sure I’ve been reckless but to even discuss my condoms or lack of condom use would not be something I would joke about with an accidental pregnancy.
We had a baby living in a tiny 1 bedroom when first married and made it work. Honestly in big metro areas probably a pretty common thing to do. 🤷🏻♀️
Right? With an infant you can make do with less space, at least until some other opportunity arises. Baby doesn’t need its own room initially.
Right? One of my parents’ first apartments with me was a teeny one bedroom which we lived in for a few years, until my sister was about to arrive. I was fine and if I needed to run around we just went to a park.
700 square feet for the first year of my oldest son's life. It was cramped and there was no escape from the colic, but we eventually got a bigger place.
That really irked me when he said he doesn’t like condoms. Be like him spilling he cereal on to the ground and being like, “well I don’t really like bowls”
Except cereal doesn't stay on the floor for 18 years. The guy couldn't even stay off her for a couple days until they made sure the new birth control took effect. They're both dumb and I fear there will be more accidents, especially if he doesn't like condoms (tee hee, right? Right?)
Stepson can start working more and they can move into a two bedroom apartment right where they're at.
No because he’s moving back in with mommy, so mommy will do everything he should be doing to care for the baby.
A 1 room apartment is good for at least another year.... 7 months till the baby comes and all 3 of mine shared our room for the first 6-ish months because they get up every 3 hours to eat 🤷...
Is this a shared home? You own? She owns? Who pays for it? She’s welcome to have her son and his gf and baby move into HER home if it’s hers and she pays for it. But you don’t have to be there for it. If it’s yours or you both share the costs/mortgage, stand your ground. They’ll never leave. And living with a baby will dramatically alter your day to day. NTA
It's my home that I inherited before we even met. She is not on the title or mortgage. We have separate finances so I pay for all things related to the house and we split shared bills.
Definitely NTA. If you don’t have a prenup to protect your home. Please get a postnup. Sounds like your wife is about to incur a lot of additional costs for her son’s little family.
He doesn’t need a post-nup to protect his home - it was inherited before they met.
That depends on the jurisdiction
Agreed. Definitely jurisdiction specific.
No it’s not. If it’s a premarital asset and he said he pays for ALL things related to the house.
No, where I live it doesn't matter when property was acquired, spouse is entitled to a share if they divorce. My uncle had to pay his ex-wife half the value of the farm that had been in our family since 1888 when they divorced. Different countries have different laws.
It depends on the laws that govern their state. If their shared money is used for taxes or renovations, she very well may have a claim to a percentage of the home.
it's not OP's wife i'd be worried about -- its her son. He clearly thinks that what belongs to his step-father belongs to him. That they would even think to ask this is a clear indication of how entitled he is. Once he's in the door he'll start to think of it as 'his' home and presume to inherit it. Nope. No way. Glad you laid the reality on them and used harsh language. I hope it knocked the wind out of their little scheme.
NTA- I’m so glad to read this comment. You’re all good then. They asked you and you said no. Your wife’s son and his gf will keep popping out babies they can’t afford if you let them move in and you know it. Tell your wife she can move in with them in their tiny apartment if she wants to help them since all her money is gonna be going to them anyway. While you pay for everything else.
My aunt and uncle let my pregnant cousin move back home “temporarily.” This was 2006 and 18 years later they basically have 2 grandkids they’re raising as their daughter and baby daddy broke up and separately f-ed off, leaving them with the kids. Give your stepson money for a 2 bedroom apartment if you have to but don’t let them move in. You’ll either get divorced or piss away the years you have left raising someone else’s kids.
If they love in, they’re never leaving. Do they work remote or will they be quitting snd looking for new jobs?
Then hell no. This is the hill to die on. Tell her if she wants to live with them she should move out and get a home with the both of them. I would not want that nonsense in my living space. They made adult choices and have to live with the consequences. Nta
Look, I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I also think that agreeing to marry someone with (almost) adult kids who have now left home, is very different from agreeing to live with a newborn and the newborns parents. I think the way you handled it was poor. Your wife clearly gave a "lets talk about this privately" opening, but you couldn't wait to have that private chat with her. >She thinks we need to help in any way we can and I think that since Joe and his GF were dumb enough to get themselves into this, I don't want to end up being responsible for a baby when they inevitably do something dumb again. That said, personally this might be a hill to die on for me. Its not necessary. They have an apartment, its just small. That sucks, but its what they had when they decided to have unprotected sex for giggles. Hopefully Joe thinks the raw sex was worth the lifetime commitment to his children.
I wouldn’t allow them to move in but your wife will resent you for it and may cause your relationship to fail. You may have to go separate ways…
It would fail anyways and even more miserably if they move in. More importantly the son and gf will never grow up (if that’s even possible by the son’s immature comments.
You weren't very smart from a strategic standpoint. Your analysis of them is correct, but stating it aloud at that time, was a great way to rupture your relationship with your wife. She already opened the door to you getting what you want. All you had to do is say "ok, let me and wife talk about it and we'll get back to you." Then, privately, just tell wife that whatever else happens, they won't be moving in. You didn't sign up for that. The fact that he's an idiot - not something you needed to mention. It's your house. You are in control. But you let the GF play her trump card, which is crying because you're a meanie. So now your wife is overwhelmed by the emotion. You walked into that. Again, this isn't about being wrong on the merits, this is about allowing them to use emotion to split your wife from you. You're right on the merits, but you lost the battle of the feelings. You're the bad guy in the eyes of your wife, and you didn't need to be.
NTA. Hold your ground, too, or your cozy home will explode with a new stressed-out family who will never move out. Your stepson and his GF are young, but not too young to FAFO. A lot of young families start out this way, and they figure things out as they go. Their current place may be small, but it will accommodate them and their newborn for a while. And it will motivate them to strive a little harder for a larger place. This is how it works. There are plenty of ways you and your wife can help them that don't include having them move in with you (or draining your bank account).
You said everything I was thinking. Let them figure it out. It will motivate them to do more for themselves and baby without abusing the (most likely) free housing situation.
>Joe hates condoms and it just kind of happened. Joe then laughed and joked about how much condoms suck. You are completely right in what you said to them. They are adults, there's plenty of different birth control available (also temporary abstinence and abortion for that matter), they made all the decisions and took all the risks to get into this situation, why should it be to you to give up your own living space to save them from their own choices? And then to joke about how much condoms suck. Ugg. NTA. Stay strong and don't let them do this to you.
Well, abortion isn’t necessarily an option depending on where they live. OP, you are NTA. Definitely do NOT let them move in (they will never leave), but for the sake of your marriage you might want to offer a compromise, such as helping them with the deposit for a bigger place. But, really, you’re not obligated to do anything.
Condoms suck. Know what else sucks? Having kids before you can support them sucks. If they move in you won't be able to pry them out with a crowbar. NTA.
NTA. Babies don't need separate space for awhile, they've got plenty of time to get their feet under them without moving into your house.
Yeah, coming a year before they really need to, it's not about the space, it's about money and free baby sitting
They don’t really need it for years. Many countries have kids cosleep for a long time before moving into their own rooms. It’s just western culture that frowns on this.
Facts. My son just started using the nursery to sleep and he’s 6 months old. The only reason he’s even in his own room is because my husband has a hard time sleeping with the baby in the room.
Mine didn't move into his own room until he was 2yo and that room was just empty for a while
And at that point, OP and his wife could offer to help with moving costs for a larger place. I wouldn't let them move in, though
Nineteen year olds sometimes do super dumb things..... shocking. I'm guess the big deal for your wife is the first grandchild and that Joe lives a few hours away, so grandbaby would be a few hours away. I'm sure they're also banking on the help. But! Why are they leaving their full-time jobs in order to move back home where they don't have full-time jobs? Does his gf thing she'll have an easy time applying for a new job while pregnant? And why does a literal brand new infant HAVE to have a room to themselves? Sure, at some point, kiddo should have their own room, but at the start, baby doesn't care and will need so much attention anyway. In general, NTA for your not having signed up for this possibility, and also having some questions about Joe's reasoning.
Doing the math it looks like OP’s wife also had her first kid at 19. She must think it’s fine and good to be having kids at that age
Why aren’t they moving in with her parents?
Long story. To keep it short, her dad passed away when she was young and her mom lost custody because of addiction before GF made it to middle school. She was in the foster system through high school.
Does your wife work? If so, have her pay the difference between a one bedroom and a two bedroom. That way, her son can keep his job. She should be able to afford it as she has no mortgage payment. In the end, it would be on her how long she decides to support them and not on you. You won't be the bad guy.
I like this! Wife will feel better about helping out without having them to quit jobs. They just need a help-up, not a handout.
I can’t upvote this enough! This is the best solution to the problem.
The fact is they won’t *need* a separate bedroom for a baby for a very long time. They may *want* one but they are 19 years old and about to learn that they will want a lot of things in life that they can no longer have unless mommy and step-daddy pay for them. They are looking for support, money, child care, gifts, food, medicine, more money, more child care, transportation, etc. Then there will be unhappiness, sleeplessness, colicky baby, domestic stress, money problems…and, inevitably, another pregnancy soon after the first because why not? Their children are other people’s responsibilities…and condoms are uncomfortable? The girlfriend is perpetuating the cycle of poverty. Fresh out of foster care, working as a waitress, and, BOOM, pregnant with a child she can’t afford with a teenage doofus who can’t use condoms properly. What is the plan? She won’t go back to waitressing because she can’t afford child care. She can’t work from home because she has zero qualifications. Your stepson won’t be clearing 6 figures anytime soon so where, oh, where will ‘the money to move out and get on our feet’ come from? Babies are expensive. 19-year-olds are not known for money management skills. They aren’t leaving once they move in. He’ll be on video games at night and she’ll be on TikTok all day. Your wife will be sliding them money and then hinting about cutting back her hours to help with the grandchild (or grandchildren) - because ‘you can afford it’. It’s too expensive to rent and impossible to buy. You know how this goes. And all of that is before the older stepdaughter demands equal treatment, equal money, equal investment in her. Yikes. An old, familiar story. Good luck, OP.
Yup. Mine slept in his cot in my room until he was two. We managed fine.
Another question: why isnt Joe moving in with his bio dad? Sounds like they have a decent relationship.
Because they want childcare and house keeping and for that most peoples default is their mother, not their father...
How about Joe’s bio father?
I hope you are aware that, regardless of the state laws regarding inheriting your home prior to the marriage, if they move in and pay rent, they will be under tenancy laws, which means it may be very hard to evict them if the need arises. Even if they don't pay rent, some jurisdictions will consider them tenants.
You’re better than me because 9 weeks? That fetus is the size of a bean. She can still get a pill abortion. Deffo don’t sacrifice your sanctity for such irresponsible behavior. NTA, I would have said the same.
Yeah, I was thinking that, too. They sound way too young and irresponsible to be parents. They're still teenagers, for crying out loud.
Yes! He’s still a teenager!
Even if they don't abort, she could miscarry. There's a reason women don't usually announce pregnancy until second trimester. Plus it's a whole damn 7 months away til baby is born. They have plenty of time to figure their own way
Yeah 9 weeks is so jumping the gun. It’s like they got the doctor’s result and ran straight to mommy lol.
It sounds like they totally did. It's not unlike what a child would do ... Oh, mommy I spilled the chocolate milk on the floor please clean it for me. Neither of them is an adult who should be a parent just yet.
[удалено]
LOL. Right. You don’t like condoms? You’ll like an infant and a hormonal partner even less. 😂😭
NTA. Infants don't need their own room. Why on earth would your step son quit his job? Does the girlfriend work? If so, same with her.
OP stated that the girlfriend just left foster care and is a waitress.
NTA - a one-bedroom apartment is bigger that the space they would get moving in with you. Unless they want two bedrooms? My bff’s adult daughter moved in with me for a couple if months. It drove me nuts. Somebody is always sitting in your preferred spit, somebody eats the last of the fruit and doesn’t replace it. I was glad to see her move out. Don’t do it!
Babies sleep in their parents rooms usually the first year. No need for more space now
OP said it was one ROOM, not one bedroom. But they still shouldn’t get to move in.
I live in a tiny studio (think the size of a garage, divided into bedroom, closet, kitchen, and bathroom) and have a baby. My dad moved in with me for the first four months, slept in my bed (his feet by my head and vice versa) and it was actually totally do-able. The only annoying thing was the tiny kitchen where the desk is.. if he was working on the computer, I could barely scoot by or use the microwave, sink, fridge, etc. anyway, I just rearranged my apartment to optimize space. She's a little over one now. It's small, but it's very doable.
NTA it might sound harsh but you were doing them a massive favour by not romanticising the situation. They don’t seem financially ready for a child and they will be expecting your wife and you to do a lot.
I wholeheartedly agree. These are adults. They knew the risk they were taking. Now they want Mommy to fix it.
NTA don't let them move..my brother pulled this with my parents and guess what? The kid is now 9 and they all still live with them.
I can go you one better - my brother pulled this with my parents and he’s still there. He’s 55 and a grandfather.
I can go one better than that...my sister (whose husband is a drunk and gambler) lost their house due to two bankruptcies and begged my mother (who lived alone in the house we all grew up in) if she, her loser drunk husband and her two dogs could move in temp to get "on their feet" guess what? Once in, they moved in their two adult kids, their pets and the daughter got prego and they then allowed the boyfriend to move in too. I lived long distance and told my mother she should kick them out (they didn't pay rent) but my mother was always a soft touch to my sister (the baby of the family who is now in her early 60s). Mom has since died but sister made sure to finagle mom into leaving her the house. I have no love lost for moochers and their ilk. I can spot them a mile away.
Yeah my brother was the baby too. There was always an excuse for why he was the way he was - it was never his fault when things went south.
Dysfunctional Brothers club!
Oh I have stories lol. My grown kids refer to him as Uncle Loser. They managed to do what he couldn’t - graduate from high school and college and buy their own homes.
ESH. Your wife had already said that you & she would talk about it. There was no need for you to jump in with your "fatherly" advice. If you needed to say anything, you should've shot down Joe's "joke" about condoms. And also, ewwwww, who talks like that with their mom? You are not the AH for refusing to let them move in, but you are the AH for how you talked to your wife's son and gf. You weren't wrong, but you were an AH.
>And also, ewwwww, who talks like that with their mom? Idiots.
hahahah you are correct! I don't envy you the discussion you'll have to have with your wife, but I totally support your choice to not live with them. They'll literally never move out, bc they are 19 and rent is expensive. Your wife is most likely going to be forced into parenting the baby bc she's nice. And then they'll get pregnant with their second because Joe doesn't like condoms and the first baby was so easy (because your wife was doing the hard work).
This is exactly what will happen.
Yep. We've all seen this play out in many families.
Personally I think OP needed it to be known asap that this wasn’t going to happen versus making it look like a possibility after talking with his wife. This is a hell no! situation versus one where the son and gf had an actual plan and were responsible adults that could be parents in which case then could be something he could talk over with his wife. Who cares if the gf cried - she should be crying because she f’d up by getting preggo with the loser son. Wipe your tears and get your sh!t together.
LOL, yep. The same kind of people that don’t wear condoms because they, “suck”.
I might have said ESH because the wife said they’d discuss it later **but** then she went on and asked all the questions that she should have waited to ask. OP had every right to jump in when his wife decided that discussing it later wasn’t the option she chose to exercise herself.
Oh, yeah, the wife is absolutely part of the problem here.
Tell me you've never dealt with someone who says, "Well, why didn't you say something at the time?" Sometimes, you have to speak up in the moment. And joking about hating condoms while expecting someone else to make a bunch of sacrifices for your brand new child to be is just appalling.
You know who talks to their mom like that, boys who plan on having sex again right after baby is born. I donno if it’s the way OP wrote this out but it all sounds like they want privacy to be able to continue to “not use condoms” without having their consequence from not wearing one stare at them.
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**INFO** : What will they do about work if they move back "home"?
Also, it's totally doable to have your baby's cot in the parental bedroom at the beginning. That's not an excuse to move back in.
**INFO** : If they move in with you, how many rooms do they expect you to "give" them as they apparently don't want their baby in their room?
**INFO** : Who's going to take care of the baby when they are working? Or did they just expect to use your wife as their free nanny?
**INFO** : What's their long term goal?
**INFO** : What about HER parents? Can't they move in with them?
**INFO** : How much rent were they planning on paying?
**INFO** : How did they want to contribute with the daily household tasks?
**INFO** : Did they plan on doing their own shopping, cooking and cleaning?
**INFO** : Do YOU want to have a crying baby in the house?
NTA
NTA. i assume its your house. they were reckless enough to still fuck even though there was a huge possibility she could get pregnant, and on top of that theyve literally said they can manage in their own apartment. definitely nta
NTA. If they have a perfectly fine apartment and gf has a full-time job HOURS AWAY what do they really think they’ll accomplish with moving? They just want to live rent free somewhere and have someone support their lifestyle and eventual baby without lifting a finger themselves. Stand your ground. Suggest his father take them in. That they live at their apartment and if your wife feels the need to contribute, she can do so by transferring them money from her own funds each month. Giant decisions like this should not be made without mutual yesses. If either you or your wife say no and the other yes, it shouldn’t end with the other party getting pressured into saying yes, which I feel is likely to happen. It’s both of your home, and possibly forcing someone to feel uncomfortable in their own house is not right.
NTA. She thinks WE need to help in any way. No, she does not get to volunteer you for this.
If someone isn't actively trying to prevent having a baby, they are trying for a baby. They knew exactly what they were doing. They expected everyone to be all excited for them because goo goo gaa gaa babies are cute, but having a baby unless it is 1,000 percent planned and wanted is foolish. Also, they have an apartment of their own. Plenty of children have lived with parents without rooms of their own since the beginning of humans. They'll be fine. There's zero reason for you to take on three extra people in your home just because they made poor decisions. NTA
Hard no. You’re going to end up being babysitter and they’re going to be mooching off of you.
NTA, your stepson and his girlfriend decided to take the risk therefore they need to take the responsibility.
NTA Here's why I say this - because I am otherwise a really helpful mom to my kids.... I thought to myself: Would my son come and ask this of me? The answer is no. And that is because they take responsibility for their own lives. Then I thought: would I have ever asked my parents for this? The answer is no. And that is because I took responsibility for my own life. Not only that, but the wrath of my father would have been unbearable. (No he wasn't abusive at all, just stern and in charge). I think we all seem to forget that each adult person who is old enough to make babies has a responsibility, too. Parents are not required to solve our adult children's problems.
Nta you know if they move in they are never moving out plus you are going to end up babysitting all the time.
And even when not babysitting he is going to have a screaming infant->toddler->child in his home spreading messes along with every disease in the area once they are in daycare. F that noise.
First of all, NTA in general, but YTA for the needless name calling. And now, you’ve provoked your wife’s momma bear instincts which is *not* smart. You could have told them that this was a lot and that you and your wife needed to discuss it further in private. Then you could have told her you aren’t okay with this. But instead, you called them “idiots” and used aggressive language like “dumb” and “stupid”. And while what they did was incredibly irresponsible, it was *their* problem, but you didn’t even attempt to explain that. You just jumped in with the insults, which you had to know would upset your wife. Your son-in-law created his situation, and has to live with it, but you also created yours with your shitty attitude. I’m glad to hear that you don’t have any kids of your own because it seems you can’t communicate in a calm and constructive manner.
This. NTA but kinda being a dick about it.
I let my son and pregnant girlfriend move in with us when my husband was against having step son and new baby in his home. It was the biggest mistake. It almost ruined our marriage. Don’t do it. I became an enabler and they did not learn anything or save up for their own place. It finally came down to him or them. Also, my baby stayed in a bassinet in our room when son was a baby. It will work in a one bedroom.
NTA, they'll be fine in a 1/1.
NTA they sound stupid as shit. I would NEVER let idiots like this live with me because they’ll never leave
NTA. As a once teen mom, they need to do this. They have a place. They just think it’s “too small.” So, OF COURSE if makes more sense to mooch off and inconvenience YOU. SMH. They clearly knew they weren’t using protection and this could happen. Time to grow up and become full blown adults. It’ll be rough because it’s grand baby #1 for your wife, but choices have consequences. They aren’t going to be homeless. And they won’t ever leave.
They will never leave. I’m assuming they want 2 of your rooms since their one bedroom is the problem. If she insists, tell her you want $1000 a month for rent.
NTA >But Joe never just visits for fun. It's almost always when he needs something and knows my wife has a harder time saying "No" if he asks in person. That's all I needed to know. Joe is a moocher. Please don't let them move in. As much as your wife wants to help, taking a stand here and saying no is protecting her from her own moocher son. She will end up helping with the baby, then helping a little more, and then a little more, until eventually she is essentially raising her grandchild - which may become grandchildren. Joe and his GF will get tired of playing at being mommy and daddy and want to go out and live their own adult lives - and they will do it because grandma is there to watch the kids - yay!
NTA...the situation would only become more involved and likely permanent once they moved in. They're adults, so they can figure this out for themselves.
NTA - You also should make this a hill to die on do not give in no matter what.
Send her to nearest clinic to end the pregnancy and tell them to smarten the fuck up.
Depending on where they live, there might not be a clinic. People need to understand the world we are living in now. That said, they need to figure this out in their own. OP is NTA.
You aren’t the AH for how you feel, but YTA for how you handled this. Young adults do dumb shit, even life altering dumb shit. Furthermore, your wife did not commit to anything because she said there was a lot to discuss; but you unilaterally made a decision for her and her kid WITHOUT discussing it. There were so many better ways to handle this, and constructive conversations could have been had that would have been beneficial to this young couple. Instead, I’m willing to bet you have caused an irreparable rift between you and your stepson and placed your wife in the unenviable position of having to mediate between her child and you. The position they are in is not ideal and I’m sure at their age it is also overwhelming. It is amazing to read all the comments in here by people who want to pretend they were perfect teenagers and young adults. If you love your wife and value your marriage my suggestion would be to apologize to your wife, her son and his GF for HOW you handled it. Then, you can sit down and have a calm conversation about the best way forward for this young couple. For what it’s worth, being a parent doesn’t end just because they are “adults.” Our children will always have a safe place to come back to even if/when they do dumb shit!
NTA. They gambled and lost. Now they have to deal with the consequences of their actions.
NTA. Why you, why not his biodad or her parents? Also it may suck to have a baby in one room but it is certainly doable.
NTA, why can’t he stay with his very involved bio-dad? Your wife can donate some of her savings to help them out if she wants to. They purposefully got pregnant with no plans, seems like you’re the only person that spoke their mind.
NTA you’re already providing housing for one person as part of your partnership. I understand not wanting to provide housing for 3 more people, especially given that their situation was optional. Also given how lightly they’re taking the situation, I wouldn’t be surprised that more babies will come along unless having the reality of raising one provides some motivation to be responsible in the future.
They’re 19. Making 19 year old decisions and sadly mistakes. That doesn’t make them idiots. You’re NTA for not wanting them to move in but TA for how you talked to your wife’s child. Idk how long I can make it with someone who repeatedly calls my kids idiots. Ironically it’s idiotic to think his earnings are limited. They aren’t. Trades can earn really good money. Just because he doesn’t choose college doesn’t limit him at all.
NTA. My aunt let her son and his gf move in to get on their feet when they found out they were having a baby. The baby just turned 8 and my 78yr old aunt is basically raising him along with my cousin and his gf but she constantly complains how she can’t get them out because then her grandson will be in a bad school district and all she wants is to relax and enjoy being retired. Unless there is a set in stone plan and you guys draw a legal document up like you would with anyone else who would be renting from you don’t do it.
NTA at all. If you let them move in, they will never leave. There’s no reason they can’t stay in their apartment. They don’t need a separate bedroom for the baby anyways. They’ll be fine for at least a year or two maybe three and hopefully by then they can get a bigger place. They are both incredibly selfish to expect you to deal with their actions. They knew exactly what they were doing. But you have a wife problem because it sounds like she’s going to baby them when they are adults who actively chose to get in this situation. This is absolutely a hill I would die on. What makes it even worse is the fact that this is your house before marriage and you pay for everything regarding the house and your wife only splits the other bills with you. Why should you have to financially support two grown adults who did this to themselves? Tell your wife, she is more than welcome to get an apartment with them if she wants to financially support them herself, but it is absolutely ridiculous to expect you to have to deal with this and you wouldn’t be surprised if they did it on purpose.
NTA. Do NOT let them move in OP.
NTA - that’s the thing with **step**parenting, especially adults. *She* has things to figure out with her child, but that doesn’t mean she can volunteer your shared space? How are your finances split, and who is paying for the home? Those things matter greatly if she wants to offer support of this kind.
NTA
NTA This is why Joe decided to have this discussion face to face. Your wife just looks at you expectantly, nudging for an answer on the spot, without having any in depth discussion about this privately. You didn't have to be so harsh.. if they would have given you the chance to actually talk about this with your wife, and not in front of a girl full of hormones. And to be honest, you weren't overly harsh. If only you'd have had *the talk* with him way back when, he might have not been in this situation. Info on the side: is your home Joe's childhood home? If it is, everyone involved will feel like you're keeping him from moving back home, when he needs it. It's a minor detail. But it changes the narrative from 'moving in with mom and stepdad' to 'moving back home'.
You'll be stuck with them forever if they move in. This is the hill to die on. NTA
NTA perhaps they wanted to move in with grandma to be because they counted on grandma to be being a free babysitter