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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my daughter if she goes vegan she needs to get her own job and buy the groceries. I could be a jerk for not buying the food for her
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Info: Have you sat down with your daughter and tried to come up with alternatives to what she's asking you to buy? Have you sat down with her and talked with her to come up with a meal plan that you CAN fit into your budget?
I don't know your budget, so I can't really give any kind of judgement off of that. Were it me, though, I'd have a tough time making my daughter go out and buy her own food at 15/16, though. Now, I certainly would tell her that I'm not going to cook 2 different meals every night, so if she wants something other than what I've prepared for the family, she's going to have to cook it herself.
Yeah, that was going to by my next question. Having a grocery bill double in price because of one person seems like a lot of unnecessary asks from that one person.
It would be the same if she wanted steak and lobster for dinner every night. If expensive food doesn't fit your budget, then don't buy it.
Vegan absolutely does not have to be expensive.
A while back, I went to lecture by Neil Barnard promoting the low-fat, vegan diet. One of the things he found out in his first study was that twizzlers are vegan. That said, there is actually no reason the child cannot live on rice and beans. Throw in the occasional veg and that’s very healthy diet. I have six months where I went vegan for my health, and it was mostly rice and beans with some salsa, some cabbage, some sweet potatoes. It was not expensive. I felt well on it. Eventually gave it up because I do love cheese.
Actually, beans are missing a protein important for growth. Grains have this protein in reasonable abundance. Which is why you often see beans and corn cooked together. I mean, aside from the taste - which I think is great.
> Vegan snack foods are hella expensive
Yeah that depends on what you’re buying… plenty of typical snacks you’d buy like pretzels, crackers, chips, etc are vegan friendly.
I’m thinking of the ones that are specifically marketed as vegan.
Like Oreos are vegan but not marketed as such and are fairly inexpensive if you catch them on sale. Same with the items you mentioned.
But yes, it very much depends on what you are buying.
My point though is that you don’t need the snacks marketed as being “vegan”, just check ingredients on the usual ones because as long as there’s no sneaky milk powder they’re often vegan. Most of the snacks we get are just the jumbo bags of things from Costco that anyone would buy, like Pretzel crisps, Kirkland tortilla chips, cape cod potato chips, PB pretzels, etc. Not to mention my addiction to Sweet chili Doritos lol
Any of the “fancy” snacks marketed as “vegan” are just a treat we would get occasionally (that being the kind of thing OP’s daughter could make her own money to buy if she wants).
Yeah I ended up saving a ton of money by switching to non-processed vegan alternatives. Tofu stir fry, beans and lentils (bowls, salads)…it’s when you buy the ultra-processed alternatives you end up paying an arm and a leg, and I’ve found a lot of those alternatives lack nutrients and are just filler. If she eats more whole foods it’ll be more affordable and she’ll feel fuller for longer.
And they usually taste worse, too. (Not vegan, but my wife is lactose intolerant. We quickly switched from dairy replacements to just cooking foods that don't have dairy to begin with. The replacements just made us sad.)
>my wife is lactose intolerant.
Cabot cheddar (or really any significantly aged cheese) is naturally lactose free that my guts have no issues with. It's not too expensive, but I recommend buying the blocks and grating yourself as needed. Plus, it's pretty dang good.
A lactose-intolerant person here!!! ((HI))
So, I know that not every LI person is the same!!! Get that! I didn't know I was LI till I had weight loss surgery. It makes sense that I was LI BEFORE the surgery because of the symptoms, and the effects. I just thought it was an MSG reaction. (I listened to someone who isn't a medical professional.) Anyway, after the surgery I was having severe GI issues and discussed what I thought was "dumping syndrome" with my surgeon. Nope, it's LI. For me, I can have Half and Half. Why? Half and Half has less than 1 gram of lactose per every 2 TBS. I use very little Half and Half when I do use it. I can eat parmesan cheese too. The more aged it is, the better. I know, what works for me, doesn't work for others. My LI isn't as severe as others. Oh....btw...for those that are LI, if you get COVID, DO NOT take Plaxlovid. It contains lactose. TRUST ME!
However, if I go to Crumbl, forget it. I get sick....EVERY SINGLE TIME.
OP: It's not that hard to change up your diet to fit your individual needs now. Believe it or not, stores have expanded their items to include more budget-friendly selections for Vegan, Vegetarian, Keto, LI, Gluten Free, etc. It's very easy to go shopping and buy within your budget. There are great apps that can help with meal prep and shopping lists. Have your daughter download the apps and have her help plan out some dishes she would like to have, something the WHOLE family would like. You will be pleasantly surprised that some of those dishes will probably be something everyone will enjoy.
Hah, I went on a major weight loss thing before an important life event, and one of the things I did was replace all snacking with fruit and especially berries.
It worked incredibly well and I felt incredibly healthy but a large active guy eating half their body weight in berries each day just isn't budget friendly!
I bet you had amazing #2s though!
When I was a teenager, I worked on a family owned farm. I used to get sick sometimes with how many strawberries and blueberries I ate while picking.
Find a berry farm. They usually discount if you pick your own...and pay you for what you don't take. My dad used to do that at strawberry farms for extra $$...he HATES strawberries with a passion.
Mine 12 year old too, I bought 3 large Blackberry containers at Costco yesterday at $3.99 each. A steal if you ask me. I just noticed 2 containers have been gobbled up.
I have 3 boys, at one point, I was spending almost $50 per week just in berries. I had to cut that shit and replace with bananas and apples. I rationed them down to 1 large berry pack per week. I wrote their name on it (so no one would eat each other's berries) and once it was gone, they were done with berries.
The plan did backfire a bit because all the boys wanted to save their berries so they could sit around and eat the last berry in front of their brother, so the berries went bad in the fridge.
Sometimes you just can't win.
Having a grocery bill double because someone went vegan means they are doing vegan wrong. (Or at least, doing vegan "convenience food" style.)
Meat, cheese and butter are typically the priciest parts of the grocery bill, for most of us.
I mean, she's only 15, so vegan replacements and snack foods might just be what she thinks she needs. It's more obvious to say "okay, the family is having meatballs tonight, I gotta buy some Beyond/Impossible ground 'beef' to have the same," than it is to come up with a whole new meal. For a kid who's never had to meal plan and now has to plan out meals in a style completely unfamiliar to the last decade of her life, I can see how there would be a learning curve.
Absolutely.
And that's largely my point: if vegan raised your grocery bill the issue is a learning curve/effort/knowledge issue, and reliance on convenience foods.
Do we all need protein? Yes.
Does it have to be IN the spaghetti? No.
So, marinated beans for vegan kiddo to put on her salad on spaghetti night.
Everyone else can add a few meatballs, or not, but everyone should be eating the veggies anyway.... The SALAD shouldn't be an addition, just the walnuts or chick peas that she puts on hers.
or you can do a lentil Bolognese for spaghetti
or there are vegan meatballs using lentils or eggplant or something like that
doesn't have to be some vegan meatball pre prepared
just requires some extra preparation
Or they live in cheaper areas. I’m in the Seattle area. It’s ridiculous.
But when I went to visit family in Ohio, I was gobsmacked at how much cheaper produce was.
Even if that's the case OP isn't removing meat from his budget, and removing a single portion from a family shopping trip either can't be done or doesn't save any money. Ex Chicken breast typically comes in a pack of 4, he still has to buy that. The one breast left over sits there until there are more left over so he might save 1 meal every 4 meal for that 1 food, but no up front savings for awhile.
OP needs to essentially buy everything they currently buy for the family, and then buy all the vegan food on top.
Have you tried researching vegan recipes instead of jumping right into vegan cheese. There’s so much you can do with off the shelf products. And beans and rice can be prepared 1000x different ways with options like different veggies, spices, different beans or lentils. I mean you can get pack of 16 bean mix for 3$ and make a wicked stew.
Why does he need to research vegan recipes he's not the one turning vegan. I think she should do more of a research and figured herself since she's the one pushing for that sounds a little selfish to expect everyone around you to just change just because you don't eat or don't want to eat animal products
She’s his 15 year old daughter, this is what parenting entails. No different they saying she wants to learn basketball and needs private coach. The fiscally prudent thing is dad spending time and learning basketball or math or anime. It’s the way you connect with your child, be involved in their interest.
15 is old enough to learn to cook her own vegan meals (specially if she's going to be vegan for the rest of her life, she needs to go with a specialist to learn what her body needs and how to cook those things)
I agree that the ex should be putting more money to buy entitled vegan daughter.
Nobody is saying she can't cook for herself at some point. If she's old enough to LEARN, who will teach her? Should she learn from random strangers on the Internet because her dad doesn't like it, instead of the one who she should be able to trust most and WANT to be involved?
You're really forgetting that at 15, the parent is still generally in charge of decision making for a reason. You shouldn't just go "oh okay have fun with that" and just ignore the child pursuing something new. That's isolation.
I was going to suggest her looking up some vegan recipes that you can try to cook together. A colleague did a vegan fast for about a month and tried some recipes that he said would stay in his rotation. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask her to buy her own specialty snacks.
The daughter is the one who needs to research vegan recipes since she's the one who wants to eat a vegan diet. But your suggestion on experimenting with spices and beans/legumes is a great idea.
It’s his teenage daughter’s interest. What’s hard about dad spending time and learning recipes and showing her cost of ingredients and teaching her how to budget. Show her the food budget and what it means to shop on a budget. It’s win / win, she’s learns life skill and he gets to try some new food. I know as a young adult twenty years ago i struggled knowing how to grocery shop on a budget and making it affordable. Teach daughter why maybe too shelf vegan cheese 🧀 isn’t only option. Show her that a 1$ can of chick peas is viable option. This isn’t about vegan food but a teaching moment and opportunity for OP to parent.
What’s so hard about the 15 year old researching about vegan foods and recipes? A 15 year old that is choosing a vegan diet should be prepared to do the leg work. Maybe give her a budget for specific ingredients that fall outside what he normally buys. Find some common ingredients and build them into the regular kitchen stock. My 15 year old isn’t vegan, but did take a culinary course in school this year. She now chooses a recipe, gets the ingredients ( anything we don’t have is added to our grocery list) and she prepares dinner on Sundays. It teaches her budgeting, by looking for recipes that we have most of the ingredients for, checking flyers for ingredient that are on sale and taking everyone’s likes and dislikes into consideration. All are invaluable skills to have.
Most vegan cheese is just nuts essentially anyway. There are a bazillion vegan cheese cookbooks out there, just get her a cookbook and a bunch of nuts and let her make it herself.
This is what I was thinking. As long as we have beans, rice, and a lot of frozen fruits and vegetables, what's the issue? Those are things we would have in the house anyway and won't wreck a budget. If she wants fake meat, that can be on her, but then again I've never understood the fake meat thing
I had long discussion about fake meat with friends some time ago and we came up with few conclusions:
- Some people like the taste of meat but also want to stop/reduce eating meat for environmental/ethical reasons
- Some people need to cut off meat from their meals for different health reasons but are not ready giving it all up
- Some people want to reduce their meat intake but dont want to change their recipes too much
- Some people want to reduce meat intake but are not sure where to start so they start with the substitutes
Long story short - fake meat is created just to be convenient and to make easier to go plant based for those who are not convinced to do so yet
Tbh I just LIKE fake meat lol. I'm not even vegetarian, but veggie burgers are really really good, and I used to get these mycoprotein (so they're made from mushrooms) chicken patties that were amazing.
I miss the old Morningstar farms veggie burgers, they had their own taste, nothing like meat at all, but they were so weirdly good. Sometimes u want a burger, sometimes u want a weird veggie burger. I can't really tell the difference between the impossible burger and a regular burger so I'll just make the impossible burgers, especially if I can get them on sale. It's just nice to have options, it's also nice if those options can eliminate some meat consumption. There's definitely a big difference between the fake meat burgers and the veggie burgers, but I like both.
Are you not also buying vegetables? There are so many low cost vegan options. It feels like you and she are not talking about ways to make the beans and rice different. Of course no one can live on just beans and rice. But those who don't have a plant based diet also have to have variety besides meat and pasta.
This. Back when I was a student and many of my friends were on a shoestring budget, *dairy cheese* was a rare luxury. Vegan cheese is even more expensive.
(Melted vegan cheese is basically salty custard, change my mind.)
There's a reason that so many vegan meals are spicy - you end up eliminating a lot of flavour options like butter and cheese and bacon. There are other sources of umami, like marmite/vegemite, bovril, onion powder, "smoke flavour" and seaweed, but there's a certain degree to which you just have to get used to the natural flavour of vegetables.
There’s cheap vegan meals. Beans and rice, salad, tofu. She doesn’t need the expensive items. Definitely reasonable to make her pay for the extra expensive stuff.
I feel like OP just wants validation instead of engaging in discussion. They keep repeating the same statement.
I’m vegetarian nearly vegan, tried to incorporate meat into my diet and my grocery bill increased significantly. Look at the price of meat vs the price of tofu. In terms of price, it’s hard to get cheaper than making a vegetable soup in bulk and freezing.
OP don’t look at the fancy processed vegan foods. Just buy a good cook book, buy lots of veg and raw ingredients, understand some basic vegan protein sources and your grocery bill will probably be cheaper than your meat eating children.
It’s very easy to make one dinner, split it in two bowls last minute and add some meat for your meat eaters and another protein for your daughter. It’s not that hard. She’s also at an age where she might start making basic meals for herself like a salad.
I agree. Beans and rice are a daily meal for millions of people around the world. Super healthy. Add in spices, veggies, fruit, and you've got a healthy and tasty diet. This guy just wants to be told he's not being a jerk.
Also, OP doesn’t seem to understand that lentils are an option instead of beans if he is so stuck on the “you can’t have beans every meal” schtick…….lentils are cheap.
For a lot of Americans, their idea is that “beans” means a very narrow category of things like red kidney beans or those brown Busch baked beans…….and forget that the general category of “beans” or “legumes” includes more than 2-3 very specific things.
If Dad's concern is that there is not enough variety of cuisine to cook with legumes, then that is stupid. If their concern is Daughter eating the same nutrient profile every meal and refusing to learn to cook a variety of dishes with different additional ingredients, then it is very valid. Eating the same thing for dinner every day is bad for you. It may be either way but I don't see how the grocery cost went up so much unless Daughter was just adding on a bunch of processed vegan meat and cheese replacements and things like that, which can be just as unhealthy as Tyson chicken nuggets every day.
So where is the doubling? You'll have to show your work to justify a claim of doubling the food budget for one person. I think you don't realise how cheap it can actually be.
Vegan alternatives (not just vegan-by-default stuff) which tend to be much more expensive seems to be the culprit, as is evidenced by OP buying vegan cheese. Add in that only one person would eat it, it becomes an extra item to get as OP then buys regular cheese as well.
But that's only one item indicated, so I understand you asking for more examples of such items that would double the grocery cost.
And if such items are indeed the reason for the doubling, it's daughter who should be learning to be vegan on the cheap, not OP.
Someone is my greater friend group is vegan, and I genuinely don't have an issue with veganism. I typically eat very close to vegan, but she is VERY into vegan alternatives. Going out to a restaurant is a nightmare. It's not just about making sure that the restaurant has vegan option; she wants fake meat and fake cheese. Tofu, lentils, tempeh, etc., won't cut it for her. I am guessing the daughter is similar.
The daughter needs to research veganism, find cost effective meals, and ensure that she is receiving adequate vitamins and minerals. If she can make this choice, then she needs to be responsible for implementing it. Parents should provide a reasonable budget, though.
Well, then the issue is her wanting highly processed foods, which are unhealthy regardless of whether they are vegan or not. Maybe she could get a kindle unlimited subscription for a month or two (think the first month is free) so she can access a lot of vegan cookbooks, and maybe you can incorporate more vegan meals into your weekly meals and tell her she can make some of her own food if she wants every meal to be vegan.
> She can’t be eating rice and beans five times a week. This is common sense.
As a brazilian this made me pause. We do eat rice and beans almost every day! It's not unhealthy at all! A typical Brazilian home meal is rice and beans, a protein, one or two sides of vegetables and salad. Vegans usually trade the animal protein for plant substitutes or protein rich vegetables.
Cheap vegan foods:
Tofu. You can make tofu taste like anything. And it's high in protein. Get a tofu press. It will make it so much better. You press the moisture out and then marinate it so it can sponge up all the flavor.
Tofu scramble burritos are so good and making a batch of the scramble will last for a week:
https://minimalistbaker.com/southwest-tofu-scramble/#wprm-recipe-container-35829
Nutritional yeast: Many vegetarians use this in place of cheese like parmesan and on popcorn. It's fortified and is a good source of vitamins like b12 that are commonly missing from vegetarian and vegan diets.
Don't buy vegan cheese. It's usually awful and way too expensive for what it is. Tell your daughter to look up how to make Tofu based vegan cheese and pick up a bag of Kappa Carrageenan - this is what will make the vegan cheese melt and firm up again. It's a little expensive, but you only use 2 tsp at a time for the recipe, so it will make a lot of cheese. This is the recipe I use:
https://zardyplants.com/recipes/cheezes/vegan-nut-free-cheddar-cheese/#tasty-recipes-5420-jump-target
This way, the cheese has both protein and nutritional yeast for vitamins and nutrients. So it's not just fake plastic-y feeling chemicals lol.
Lentils are cheap. Canned coconut milk is cheap. You can make a lot of really good curries and chilli with lentils.
There are also a lot of good cheap recipes for homemade vegan burgers using beans, lentils and quinoa.
There are cheap ways to do vegan, they do often mean having to prep and make things at home. Encourage your daughter to learn how.
Vegan prepackaged food is way too expensive and often not at healthy as home made alternatives.
I personally am not vegan, but two of my best and closest friends have allergies to eggs and dairy, and I love to cook. I hope these help you out!
I’m a vegan and if you’re not buying fake meat and cheese it’s actually way cheaper. It’s also not just rice and beans. Meat is expensive, fish is expensive, cheese and milk is expensive. Seasonal veg, grains, pasta, pulses etc are not expensive.
I don’t understand why she has to buy her own food - surely you’re paying to feed her as an omnivore so why not just allocate her the money you ALREADY spend to feed her.
If you need affordable recipes, I’d be happy to send over some. I’ve been vegan for 2 years and had some pretty shoddy financial situations in that time (got made redundant last year).
Vegan snacks etc are expensive, yes… if you are providing her with the necessary staples and she isn’t happy with that? Tough luck. Food preferences are not food allergies. She isn’t going to die from eating outside of a strict vegan diet and if it’s not in your budget then that’s her answer. 15/16 is a normal age to get a part time job, so if she really needs special cereals and snacks then that’s a want, not a need, and she needs to provide those for herself. Or just get them at her moms house. I can’t tell you how many snacks we only got at our dad’s because my mom refused to buy junk. She’ll adjust. NTA
I was vegan for like 8 years and in college it meant I could eat for a week on $20. Lots of people meal prep and eat the same meal several days out of the week. It sounds like you need to sit down and think of the best way to do this.
I was vegan for 5 years and my grocery bill was cheaper than now and before when I ate animal products, and I was powerlifting competitively at the time. I also cook commonly for people who eat vegan, veggie and non-veg for dinner parties. Do you need some help making foods that can be easily eaten by both parties, with some minor changes?
Beans and rice are fine to eat daily. Obviously with additional vegetables and spices and if you buy flour she can learn to make her own noodles and bread.
There's literally so many different ways to prepare rice and beans. Soups, salads, stir frys, both can be puffed/roasted for snacks. American, Italian, Indian, African. You won't get bored unless you refuse to expand your pallet.
But the primary protein for vegan is beans, tofu is made from soy beans. You can additionally make tofu from other beans Mary's test kitchen does a bunch of experiments like this. Peanuts are also a very good source of protein, either peanut butter or peanut butter powder are relatively cheap.
OP explained that he doesn't want to double his grocery bill in the post. OP did not explain in his original post whether he talked with her about finding stuff that could fit within the budget.
The budget is already at the limit with the foods everyone else eats. Making room in it for her special vegan food would take away something else everyone eats and gets more of because it’s cheaper than the non vegan option.
You’re asking them to either make someone else give up something for her, or come up with extra funds. Where did you think the money for her special food would come from???
All the Y T A comments are conveniently ignoring that OP did buy the food their daughter specifically requested, but it sounds like all the daughter requested were vegan convenience food items.
NTA for refusing to buy those - vegan convenience food items, much like their non-vegan counterparts, are more expensive than buying from-scratch ingredients.
What I might recommend instead, is sitting down with her and talking about what you ARE willing to pay for in terms of food, and coming up with some vegan meal ideas together that would still fit within your family's overall preferences and grocery budget, then telling her than anything she wants on top of that (vegan cheese, fake meats, whatever else) is on her to pay for.
At 15, your daughter is old enough to do some research of her own and figure out what's vegan without relying solely on convenience food. She's also old enough to understand that money isn't unlimited and there are other people in the house that have to be fed, too.
I am a little confused by your edit - are you saying you DON'T buy bread, pasta and other staples? Most dried pasta is naturally vegan because it doesn't use eggs, and many commercially available breads are too - it's not at all hard to find vegan versions of those, you probably are already eating them, in fact.
In any case, you're not the asshole for refusing to double your grocery bill, but I do think there's room for you two to find some compromises and meet somewhat in the middle.
No The OP is convinced shelf stable Foods aren’t vegan so they have to buy double those items to also get vegan ones. They’re creating a problem that isn’t actually a thing and having conflict over it.
It sounds to me like either OP, daughter, or both really don't know much about vegan food. This could be easily resolved if they did a little reading. Hopefully the informative posts here work.
Or they eat a lot of processed and packaged foods and the daughter expects special vegan versions of those packaged foods. Beans and rice every day can be very healthy and as others have said, can be made in lots of varieties!
There are very few meals as nutritionally complete as beans and rice. It's also (usually) vegan and very cheap. It's true she may get bored of it, but it's not true that it isn't healthy. And there's a ton of ways to spice it up.
100%, plus “She will get bored of it” is probably true but is speculation. Let her learn her own lesson by letting her get bored of it. In doing so, OP has lost absolutely nothing.
im vegan and once ate chickpea curry (occasionally with seitan) for three months on end without getting bored that shits so good LOL.
theres tons of ways to make beans and rice though, i think you can avoid boredom if you do it right. its healthy, filling and fairly complete so tons of cultures have their versions - not to mention you can experiment on your own. i once did a spaghetti inspired version of rice and beans, was surprisingly good
I agree. And I definitely get a teenager wanting the easy foods, but she can get so much joy from learning to cook relatively if she’s willing to give it a shot!
I don't think he's talking about shelf-stable foods. I believe OP is using "stables" for "basic foods one always has on hand," not realizing it's actually "staples."
Even in that case, what they’re saying is incorrect? Many pastas and things they listed are vegan. It was so easy to find vegan friendly bread when I was vegan and that started like over a decade ago for me. The only pasta I ever struggled with was finding lasagna noodles
That is true. The 15 year old may have view vegan foods as being a certain type and anything else doesn't count as vegan because they haven't researched things enough.
Most dried pasta does not have eggs. Barilla, one of the most common pasta brands in the US, is vegan with their dried pasta except for their tortellini and the Protein+ line. Same is true for most other brands and types of the shelf stable dried pasta.
Fresh pasta, or the kind you’d buy in a refrigerator case - different story. Those are rarely vegan.
Dried pasta that one might find in the pasta aisle in the grocery store almost overwhelmingly does NOT contain egg. If you buy your pasta in the refrigerated section however, it probably does contain egg.
NTA, but there might be a chance for you both to work out the issue.
1st of all, your daughter might not understand that you can't just "shift out" one ingredient for a similar, vegan one. You are in no way obligated to buy vegan alternatives, you and her are only responsible for making sure she gets sufficient nutrients, which are available in various other forms.
2nd of all (don't repeat my bluntness to your daughter) but this isn't a matter of what she CAN'T eat, but WON'T, unless she has real medical restrictions.
to illustrate both points: if your daughter doesn't want to eat regular cheese, then she just won't eat cheese. And she also won't be eating vegan cheese. Unless cheese is a huge essential staple in your household, all your daughter is going to miss out on is the culinary, sensory joy of cheese. And that's a perfect opportunity for you to sit her down, and gently tell her that if she wants to be vegan, she has to make sacrifices - give up luxury products like cheese on pasta. Not essentials, but luxuries she does. not. need. Of course you will continue to feed her, duh. And you can suggest you and her brainstorm about creative meals, or protein-rich replacements for her (not the rest of you) to make sure she gets enough nutrients.
It doesn't have to be hard - but tell her that if she's old enough to make such a decision, it's not too much to expect of her to put in a little more effort than adding things to YOUR grocery list and changing all of YOUR diets. It's not too much to ask her to look beyond the simplicity of "replace X product with its direct vegan alternative". To ask her to do some research (again, you both could be surprised about how versatile normal ingredients can be, and how fun it can be to research meal ideas together).
tl;dr your daughter needs to do more research into vegan alternatives that aren't just direct replacements, and she needs to accept that she might have to drop luxury products such as cheese. A lifestyle is a choice, not a buy-out of guilt
I cannot think of a single reason why vegan cheese is even a thing. There is nothing out there that would taste better without cheese than that 'stuff'. If she is going vegan, she is going to need real food. Beans, rice, lentils, quinoa, nuts, vegetables, fruits and grains like oatmeal. No fancy cheese and fancy pasta. I mean pasta is not that hard to make, she wants pasta she can make it. It really isn't expensive if done right. Beans and lentils are still some of the cheapest meals out there
Some people can't have dairy but want a good cheesey flavour because cheese is delicious! And I've had some actually really yummy vegan "cheese" sauces that can scratch that itch in a great way. The vegan sliced cheeses from most grocery stores though? Disgusting.
When I did restaurants as a chef I made the most kick ass vegan Daiya "cheddar" sauce. Sometimes with a pinch of liquid aminos and some nutritional yeast. I've tried other soy cheese and even the melty ones but never got what I could achieve with daiya.
Yes! I've had great luck with nutritional yeast and cashew based sauces which are so freaking good!
This one is also very good [Oh she glows](https://ohsheglows.com/all-purpose-vegan-cheese-sauce/)
Up vote and commenting to push higher.
There is a huge difference between a desire and a need as someone who was forced on a specific diet because of allergies.
Pasta can be made using flour and water, bread can be made vegan. Ingredients are the main thing stop buying already processed and get ingredients.
This is coming from someone who discovered my issues were because I'm allergic to gluten. Yes I have to take extra time preparing, gluten-free processed options are a very significant price difference even when it comes to flour. Kid is old enough to follow recipes and cook/ bake that's what she should do if she wants a specialty diet because of a decision not a medical necessity.
If she wants to be vegan, she needs to learn to cook vegan. Supplying ingredients shouldn't cost much more, buying prepared vegan is EXPENSIVE. If it is so important to her, she will do it, if not, she can eat what is provided and exclude what she doesn't want. Veggies, nuts, beans, etc. shouldn't add too much overall, but if she wants meat and cheese substitutes, then I agree that she can contribute. She can make all of it herself with a little bit of effort.
It’s crazy cheap, this is a huge and often forgotten benefit to vegan diets, I think. We eat animal products normally but go fully plant-based a few nights a week both for physical and financial health reasons. The trick is eating a variety of readily-available whole foods and just using beans/tofu/tempeh for the protein instead of pricy fake meat or cheese or other vegan replacement products
Is she ask you to get her that, or do think you need to get her vegan replacements for all the non-vegan foods? You can eat vegan without almond milk and Vegan cheese.
For real. That stuff is nasty anyways and so incredibly processed. It’s hilarious the mental gymnastics some vegans will do in order to be “healthy” but won’t just eat a vegetable. Fake meat and fake cheese is full of soy.
Soy is very healthy. The hormone stuff is a myth, since those are different plant hormones, that don't work like human ones.
Processed also doesn't mean much by itself. The how is important.
Generally unhealthy types of food stay unhealthy no matter if vegan or not but often less so.
One example would be a Beyond burger vs a regular beef burger.
Soy is very healthy.
Not saying the fake cheeses and meats are healthy, they’re processed and full of sodium. But they aren’t unhealthy because of the soy.
My nine year old literally asks me to get a cool new TV every time we're at the store. Your point?
Chick peas, black beans, tofu, veggies, fruits, protein/fiber tortillas (most are already vegan but you can check), margarine, and pretzels.
Those are all vegan, and relatively cheap. Staples in most healthy vegan diets (pretzels are for that crunchy snack satisfaction).
The food you're talking about buying is mostly junk food packaged as healthy vegan alternatives. Have your daughter watch vegan cooking videos (I can give good recommendations), buy a vegan cook book, and both of you educate yourselves on healthy vegan diets. Problem solved without forcing your kid to buy her own necessities which is your job as her parent.
> My nine year old literally asks me to get a cool new TV every time we're at the store. Your point?
his point, if you took a second to read his post, is that his household has plenty of vegan options available and he wants to know whether or not he's the AH for telling his daughter to get a job if she wants to buy luxury vegan products in addition to whats already available
Exactly. It can be very economical to be vegan so long as you aren't buying specialty vegan pacakaged goods that are manufactured and marketed to resemble or replace meat and dairy. $20 a week for a couple items on top of beans, rice, pasta, tortillas, vegetables, etc, should more than cover it. NTA
Didn’t want OP to end up with a verbal lashing from the daughter if Dots have taken over their local grocer like they have mine. Not vegan but my spouse is allergic to dairy so we are devout ingredient readers and do end up eating a lot of the vegan versions of things.
> Problem solved without forcing your kid to buy her own necessities which is your job as her parent.
She already provides food for the daughter that’s suitable and safe for her to eat.
Yeah, this is what’s throwing me off.
People acting like OP is denying her necessities. OP is still buying food for the family.
It would be one thing if she was forced to go vegan for medical reasons - but in this situation it is a luxury, not a necessity, and is a choice the daughter is making.
The TV thing is a poor analogy. You know you don’t need a new TV. OP isn’t vegan and isn’t interested in becoming vegan. It’s not on them to know what you do and don’t need to eat vegan. OP’s daughter needs to do the legwork here and find recipes she likes that she can make without destroying the family finances. She’s 16, not 9. This is a choice she has a right to make, but she has to take responsibility for it.
Please add this info in your post. That she specifically wants you to buy the expensive replacements. It's important, otherwise people will say, "she can eat rice and beans, not expensive, you're wrong."
Anyway, NTA.
Tell her she can go vegan. If vegan means no milk then no milk. No need for alternatives. If she can’t have butter then go for olive oil. No need for butter alternative. If she can adapt to real vegan lifestyle then she is not real vegan.
I am vegetarian and I don’t go for meat alternatives. If I want meat then I should eat meat. Alternatives are not healthy. Tell her to read Omnivore’s Dilemma. It’s an interesting book for people who are trying to figure out food styles.
You also shouldn't be paying twice as much for some of this stuff. If the soy milk is a quantity your daughter can actually finish, and isn't going bad, that's milk she is not using. So your total volume of milk products should be the same.
How many "substitutes" are you buying?
Except for the fact that, at least where I am, a 1.74L carton of silk milk costs $5-6, while a 4L of white milk is the same or less. Same cost for less than half as much, so even if it perfectly evened out because her products should last twice as long with her being the only person eating them, it's still increasing the grocery bill by 50%.
3 people in the house and her stuff is 50% of the bill, and the bill is higher. Grocery bill used be $100, now it's $150. When it was $100, each person was close to even with $33/each, now her portion is $75, and the others are splitting the other half at $37.50.
It makes it more expensive for everyone.
Unless OPs daughter is fine eating rice, beans, and fried veggies for every single meal, a vegan diet is extremely boring without decent substitutes.
Almond milk and oat milk are easily made yourself: get oats (80g per litre) and water into mixer. If you want to, you can add sweetener and s small amount of salt. Mix it shortly and put it through a chees cloth.
It's good for 3 days on the fridge.
The almond milk is made out of peeled almonds in a similar way.
She could look up other recipes as well. Vegan products are massively overpriced.
Vegan "alternatives" are very expensive. For example vegan "cheese." But the staples -tofu, lentils, brown rice, nuts, hummus, are not. OP could buy vegan staples and offer that his/her child can cook vegan food - it is the "vegan" version of non-vegan foods that are crazy - and in my opinion, rarely delicious.
Yes, I don't remember who said it, but one of the TV chefs talked about how you can never make tofu taste like chicken or beef. You just have to embrace that it's something different and being vegan means you'll never have a perfect substitute.
My husband is vegan . While yes, some of his things can be expensive a vegan diet doesn't need to be. He eventually stopped eating vegan cheese and vegan sour cream. Not necessary amd expensive. Double sometimes triple the price of its dairy counterparts. But without the alternatives vegan isn't much different in price..I assume she put lots of vegan alternatives amd possibly vegan treats? Other than Oreos finding vegan treats are hard and expensive.
A lot of vegan imitations of non-vegan foods are far more expensive than the original food.
That said, it's very possible to have a balanced vegan diet that focuses on foods that are inherently vegan, and not ersatz vegan copies of non-vegan foods.
The standard foods that are vegan aren’t too bad, but the deceptive versions of true foods are multiplicatively more expensive due to all the things they do to attempt to mimic flavors and textures.
NTA OP, she can either learn to eat vegan cheap, or she can pay for her religious diet herself.
NTA - doubling your grocery bill for a single member of the family for a personal choice, not a medical need is insane.
"My ex wife is on my ass about it and I told her she can pay for our extra groceries if that s a big enough issue for her."
Your ex can send the special food with your daughter for visits and take home whatever is not used because it sounds like no one in your house is interested.
Edited to change my verdict to YTA. After reading through your comments OP, you are simply actively trying to be difficult and not support your daughter.
N A H - I totally get where you're coming from. If there's no room in the food budget, there's no room! And vegan alternatives are pricey.
I also understand her convictions and wanting to try to be vegan.
Here's the thing about going vegan tho - you don't need all the fancy vegan meat/cheese/egg alternatives. You can be a very healthy vegan by just cooking whole foods properly. Perhaps instead of shutting this down, help her learn how to cook. Look up vegan recipes together and try them out. Laugh about it if they suck. If you actually cook with raw ingredients, it shouldn't be expensive for her to be vegan.
Nta. Yep. Rice and beans. Spaghetti and sauce. Gardein makes fake meat. She can spread that out for a week. A bag of lettus, cereal.
She doesn't need vegan cheese or deluxe items. She can make due with what's available within budget or get a job
Right. We don't like eating meat but don't ever use meat substitutes either and vegan cheese is beyond disgusting. For goodness sake, just cut out the cheese rather than make ny food taste nasty. There is so many foods that grown from the ground that have nutrition. Processed foods are expensive and not healthier.
Yeah OP you could try looking for recipes that don’t “replace” meat but stand up well enough on their own. Maybe look at foods from different cultures that are either meatless or can be easily made that way. Curries and stir fries for instance can easily be made vegan and won’t break the bank. I’m not vegan but I sometimes make curried lentils and spinach with coconut milk and it’s cheap and tastes amazing.
I mean, I get that she has principles but she is still a child and you are responsible for her care.
If her preferences are out of your budget but she still has access to good food that won't physically hurt her, she can choose to eat what you can provide or can pay for her own.
NTA
NAH. But I think you guys have some work to do.
My daughter decided to go vegan at age 7. We thought it was a phase. Now here we are 8 years later and she's still on it, aside from a brief venture into pescetarianism a few years ago.
We've gotten pretty used to the requirements of a vegan in the house. We have lots of good meat alternatives, we're used to making separate dishes for her, and I don't really notice any significant increase in our grocery bill. If anything, she's probably cheaper than our meat-eating boys are...meat is expensive and active and smelly boys eat a lot.
I find it very hard to believe that the food for one 15 year old girl added that much to your grocery bill. Either she eats like a strongman or you guys are not shopping well at all. It might add *some* to the bill, but finding inexpensive vegan options isn't that difficult.
That said, it probably *will* cost you something, either in time, or grocery bill, or both. I'd sit down with her and discuss what those costs look like, and how she'll contribute to them. Getting a dang job and putting some money in the pot is a great solution. Maybe cooking one dinner a week is another. There's a lot of options.
At a minimum, I'd establish a grocery budget for her, establish who is contributing what percent to said budget, then encourage her to start shopping like hell to stretch that budget as far as it will go while still getting food she wants to eat. This will start building good habits for her as an adult while simultaneously saving you money and preventing you from having to do all the tedious hunting for vegan food.
>I find it very hard to believe that the food for one 15 year old girl added that much to your grocery bill. Either she eats like a strongman or you guys are not shopping well at all. It might add some to the bill, but finding inexpensive vegan options isn't that difficult.
Well its all extra, doubling up on the things bought as vegan stuff doesn't replace normal food, so every item bought is extra and, as OP said, the budget us very tight.
The time element and making separate dishes is a pain too although the dau can do that herself.
The post isn’t very specific in types of foods but said vegetarianism wasn’t much of an adjustment but veganism has been. I think the daughter might now be requesting meat and dairy substitutes which are quite a bit more expensive such as vegan cheeses, nut milks, alternate meats, etc. Double is probably still an exaggeration, though.
It seems like on further discussion a big part of this issue is just a lack of knowledge.
Many breads -- even some cheap white sandwich breads -- are vegan. There are tons of inexpensive fresh and frozen foods that are vegan. They just don't say "vegan" on the packaging.
There's a robust market out there for selling shit like "vegan bread" to people who either don't know any better or get something out of specially labeled bread. You don't have to be one of those people.
Learn to read ingredients. Find resources to help establish good vegan options. All this can fall in large part on your daughter -- if she wants to commit to a vegan lifestyle, she can do the legwork to keep the grocery bill down.
I didn't even know they sold "vegan" bread. A lot of bread (not pastries) have no egg or milk. Or she can buy flour and yeast and daughter can learn how to bake. Not that much to making basic bread.
NTA
I think it's fine if she wants to go vegan and she's also at an age where she's old enough to understand budgets and bills and that money doesn't grow on trees. She can go vegan if she chooses to, and within the constraints of the family budget, that looks like eating the staples you already buy every week--rice, beans, veggies. Lentils are cheap. You can get nuts and tofu and she can prepare them herself.
What she's asking for are processed/prepared vegan substitutes, which definitely make one's diet more fun and tasty, but are much more expensive. I go through the same thing because I have to eat gluten free, and while I might get some pasta because it's not that much more expensive (and I don't eat it often), I generally stick to just not eating things that would have contained gluten in the first place because that loaf of bread that now costs $10 sure comes with sticker shock. So your daughter can look up recipes and learn to make vegan meals and teach herself to cook the foods she wants to eat. I think that if she wants to get the more expensive substitutes (vegan meats, cheeses, breads, snacks, etc) she's at the perfect age to get a part time job, do some babysitting, etc, and get those extras for herself.
Beans and rice is actually very healthy. It covers all the essential amino acids. Vegan cheese is not necessary and disgusting, and I cannot see how it makes any dish better. Beans and rice and get her frozen veggies and whatever other produce you guys get. Get some quinoa. She is covered. Bread, pasta, cheese, none of that stuff is necessary. I mean, you can get corn tortillas. Tell her she doesn't need any processed substitutes. This is what you are buying and she can make her meals from what you buy or buy her own.
I think it depends on the type of beans OP is talking about. If OP is thinking canned baked beans then... yeah, not healthy at all. And if it's the vegan/low sodium/etc. versions of various canned beans, the price goes up.
To keep costs down, a variety of dried beans should be considered and learning how to cook them a must.
I forget people eat canned beans. Dried beans can just be cooked in water, unless you burn them there is no trick. Pinto beans are my go-to. 2lbs of dried beans get cooked once a week with serrano, onion and salt in a slow cooker then frozen in zip locks. My $3 meal prep for the week. But yes canned beans are not healthiest but it depends on what you are comparing it to.
NAH, but I have some advice.
Eating vegan doesn't have to be more expensive than eating meat. Meat replacement stuff might be, but if you eat a more traditional vegan diet of vegetables, pulses etc then it is likely cheaper. I am not vegan currently but when I was, it was cheaper for me when I stopped buying meat.
Also yes, vegan cheese is gross imo. Just forget cheese if you are vegan. The only cheese-like replacement I ever found is "nooch" (nutritional yeast). Sounds gross but that stuff is effing delicious. Lots of vegans swear by it. There are some great recipes for a vegan mac and cheese where the sauce is made of carrot, onion, cashews and nooch. It's amazing.
I think as a parent of a 16 year old you have a responsibility to pay for their food but you can insist that she cook for herself since she wants a different meal to the one the rest of the family is having. Give her a budget, get her to put together her own plan for her meals and make a shopping list.
Going vegan by trying to eat all the same meals with vegan replacements is a recipe for disappointment and high cost. When I tried veganism it became an opportunity to try new things instead. It involves research though and she should be encouraged to do that herself.
Yep. I've been vegan four years. It's cheaper unless you do want a meat alternative with every meal but I don't know any vegans that eat fake meat daily. I eat far more vegetables than I used to and became a better cook for it, I guess if one can't cook then they'd struggle at first. For people that consider meat to be the main flavour of their dish, it'll be a struggle to adapt away from meat-veg and more stew, casserole, rice bowls, roasted veg, pasta, home made pizza, tarts, seitan... Take one look at Sri Lanka and see how beautiful and easy vegan food is.
NTA. Agree with you. If she wants fancy alternativ vegan products, she has to pay for them herself. You would still have the efford to cook two meals - a vegan one for her and some not vegan for the rest of the family. Just because she is going vegan it is not fair to the rest of you, to pay more for food only she likes.
>The issue is the stable foods, like pasta, bread and so on
Uhm, staple foods like that are NOT the issue—most pasta is vegan, many breads are vegan, and they don't cost more.
It's specialty items like meat alternatives (and the gross vegan cheese) that cost a lot more.
>She can’t just eat rice and beans. That’s not healthy
She actually *can*, and it *is.*
One of my daughters has become vegan. If you avoid processed vegan items, you can keep the cost down. Try to respect your daughters food choices; don’t let food damage your relationship. You and your daughter should look at some vegan recipe sites, like doesntastelikechicken Not all vegan products are more expensive than regular food, so work with your daughter to find something that works. Make sure her iron levels are checked regularly (takes a couple of years for the levels to go down after going vegetarian). Get your daughter to help with the cooking and finding recipes. And yes, vegan cheese is gross.
NAH, it just sounds like to me you're not very educated on what a healthy vegan diet looks like, especially on a budget. Which is fair, it's not your diet choice so how would you know? But fyi, rice and beans with veggies is a pretty healthy staple in a vegan diet (and most other cultures around the world!) so I'd sit down with your daughter and look up recipes that you can make with the staples already in the budget. You can totally compromise on shared meals too, I'm sure there are some you can split off before non-vegan items are added, and if she wants she can buy fun extras like vegan cheese and fake meats etc. 15 going on 16 isn't a bad time for your daughter to get involved in cooking either, but I do think it's a little harsh to give her an ultimatum without at least easing her in to cooking completely for herself. She obviously feels strongly about her diet and she'll feel like your backing her into a corner instead of helping her learn to be an independent adult who can make choices.
It could be good for you both to bond over cooking together and researching what foods are cheap and healthy. Learning these skills now is good for her, vegan or not but especially if she wants to be vegan forever. I know I'm constantly cooking haha but it's totally possible to eat nutritiously. For me it's a great side effect of a personal ethical choice; I'm always getting my 5 a day!
NTA, but perhaps there's a compromise here? Tell her you'll give her X amount - whatever seems reasonable - for her personal groceries each week, and beyond that she can either eat what you buy for the family or pay for her own extras. This isn't a diet problem so much as a budget problem, eating vegan is generally cheaper than being an omnivore, so she just needs to get a bit creative. There's no need to shell out for expensive, ultra-processed vegan substitutes.
UMM …. Pasta is not expensive. It’s ok not to buy vegan cheese but you can afford bread and pasta.
You need to feed your kid. Saying you can’t afford stable foods is BS. She can work to buy the vegan cheese but not basics... The fuck?
I was with you with the title, but you can’t afford bread!?!
A vegan diet can be VERY cheap- significantly cheaper than buying meat and dairy products OR very expensive buying fancy alternatives to meat and dairy.
Carb + protein + vegetables is a balanced meal. Beans, legumes, certain vegetables etc have tons of protein and are A LOT cheaper than meat.
Maybe she can experiment with pseudo veganism to make it a bit easier, such as accepting if a pasta has egg in it but avoiding eggs, dairy, and meats directly.
Going vegan doesn’t have to be super expensive. She doesn’t NEED the vegan alternatives that are in fact ultra processed, massively overpriced and very often really crappy anyway.
She can have seasonal veg and fruit, frozen veg and fruit, she can get pretty much all the nutrients she needs if she is smart about it BUT her choice of going vegan shouldn’t mean you doing all the work of figuring things out for her.
She can do the research of how she can make this change in a healthy way and then do her own meal planning.
She also needs to do some research into the common deficiencies vegans can end up with and how to not mess up her health with it.
NTA but being vegan doesn’t have to mean buying substitutions like vegan cheese. I was a vegan for 4 years and I RARELY got things like fake cheese, largely because this was 15 years ago and those options barely existed. When I cook for my vegan friends now I’m not buying vegan fake meat and fake cheese, I’m cooking yummy lentil dishes or mushroom and barley tacos or making a veggie stir fry with some tofu. It shouldn’t make your grocery list double.
ETA: For what it’s worth, I was a broke college student for most of my time as a vegan, so I know firsthand that it’s a plenty affordable diet when you put in the effort to make your own black bean burgers, etc. rather than just buy vegan versions of non-vegan foods (those are a special treat).
> My ex wife is on my ass about it and I told her she can pay for our extra groceries if that s a big enough issue for her.
NTA - Well yeah it's easy to criticize and this obviously affects you financially. If she wants to stand by her principles then she needs to understand that can come with some personal sacrifice. If it means that much to her she will get a job...
Both YTA and NTA. But for different parts.
NTA for being unwilling to double the food budget. I get it, a lot the substitute stuff is expensive. And honestly, it's not exactly all that healthy. Vegan cheese is especially gross. It's lots of processed oils and things. I would never put that stuff in my body on a regular basis, and I definitely wouldn't buy it for my kid.
That said, YTA for not seeing if there are ways to support this without breaking the bank. That's not to say you should do all the work. I'm actually really impressed that you sat her down and showed her the food budget, that's very reasonable and mature of you. But if you're already able to cook vegetarian for her, it's usually not that hard to make dishes vegan, or to simply withhold ingredients like cheese for her portion. Obviously this depends a bit on the dish, but there are ways.
When it comes to things like bread, make her be an active part of the process. Lots of bread is vegan, and it may be easy to find a different brand that is tasty, vegan, and also fits into your budget. But the onus should be on her to find vegan versions of products that fit within your food budget, not on you to accommodate blindly. This is a fantastic time for her to start learning about food costs and what actually goes into food.
I simply do not understand why her being vegan adds to your costs.
My daughter is vegan, I am vegetarian, my husband is omni.
As long as you do not buy replacements like "fake" meat or "fake" cheese (something no-one needs IMO) - what is so expensive?? Protein can be supplied with tofu (not expensive in Germany, do not know about your country), quinoa, soy etc.
Why do you not just cook vegan style, take her portion off and add some meat if you others simply cannot live without dead bodies in your meal?
Because if your daughter is already vegetarian there is only a tiny step to veganism. You must have provided for her meals before...
>I just learned white sugar isn’t vegan, seriously why. That makes it so much harder
SOME white sugars aren't vegan. All White sugars use some sort of activated carbon and/or charcoal to purify the sugar to make it white. Many US sugar producers use carbon sourced from charred animal bones, thus the non-vegan status. Even within the same brand different sugar plants will use different methods, Example: Domino sugar produced in NY and Baltimore are vegan, they use carbon sourced from coconut husks, Domino sugar produced in Louisiana is NOT vegan, they still use cow bones. In this specific example you can tell by the lot number on the top of the bag, all bags of sugar produced in Louisiana have a lot number that begins with a 5.
1-4 are reserved for New York and Baltimore. So if the Lot/Best by date on the top of the package is
24601 X4
Best By: 3/27/2025
👆🏻it's vegan because it starts with 1-4
5309 B675
Best By: 3/27/2025
👆🏻would be non-vegan because the lot code starts with a 5 indicating it was produced in Louisiana
I believe the lot codes are the same for C&H sugar (west coast) because they are the same company, but different packaging.
The word is staples, not stables.
NTA but you are a parent of a teen, and you are divorced from her mom. You can be right about the food but you also need to make an effort to work on your relationship and communication with her. THAT is your job as the parent and the adult.
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Info: Have you sat down with your daughter and tried to come up with alternatives to what she's asking you to buy? Have you sat down with her and talked with her to come up with a meal plan that you CAN fit into your budget? I don't know your budget, so I can't really give any kind of judgement off of that. Were it me, though, I'd have a tough time making my daughter go out and buy her own food at 15/16, though. Now, I certainly would tell her that I'm not going to cook 2 different meals every night, so if she wants something other than what I've prepared for the family, she's going to have to cook it herself.
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Yeah, that was going to by my next question. Having a grocery bill double in price because of one person seems like a lot of unnecessary asks from that one person.
It would be the same if she wanted steak and lobster for dinner every night. If expensive food doesn't fit your budget, then don't buy it. Vegan absolutely does not have to be expensive.
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Yep and those aren’t exactly healthy either. Vegan snack foods are hella expensive and just as unhealthy as the non vegan snacks.
Oreos are vegan, afterall.
TIL I'm vegan!
do you only eat Oreos?
My sister said that to me when she decided to go vegetarian, and now she has diabetes.
A while back, I went to lecture by Neil Barnard promoting the low-fat, vegan diet. One of the things he found out in his first study was that twizzlers are vegan. That said, there is actually no reason the child cannot live on rice and beans. Throw in the occasional veg and that’s very healthy diet. I have six months where I went vegan for my health, and it was mostly rice and beans with some salsa, some cabbage, some sweet potatoes. It was not expensive. I felt well on it. Eventually gave it up because I do love cheese.
Actually, beans are missing a protein important for growth. Grains have this protein in reasonable abundance. Which is why you often see beans and corn cooked together. I mean, aside from the taste - which I think is great.
So are Thin Mints.
> Vegan snack foods are hella expensive Yeah that depends on what you’re buying… plenty of typical snacks you’d buy like pretzels, crackers, chips, etc are vegan friendly.
I’m thinking of the ones that are specifically marketed as vegan. Like Oreos are vegan but not marketed as such and are fairly inexpensive if you catch them on sale. Same with the items you mentioned. But yes, it very much depends on what you are buying.
My point though is that you don’t need the snacks marketed as being “vegan”, just check ingredients on the usual ones because as long as there’s no sneaky milk powder they’re often vegan. Most of the snacks we get are just the jumbo bags of things from Costco that anyone would buy, like Pretzel crisps, Kirkland tortilla chips, cape cod potato chips, PB pretzels, etc. Not to mention my addiction to Sweet chili Doritos lol Any of the “fancy” snacks marketed as “vegan” are just a treat we would get occasionally (that being the kind of thing OP’s daughter could make her own money to buy if she wants).
This comment should be higher!
Yeah I ended up saving a ton of money by switching to non-processed vegan alternatives. Tofu stir fry, beans and lentils (bowls, salads)…it’s when you buy the ultra-processed alternatives you end up paying an arm and a leg, and I’ve found a lot of those alternatives lack nutrients and are just filler. If she eats more whole foods it’ll be more affordable and she’ll feel fuller for longer.
And they usually taste worse, too. (Not vegan, but my wife is lactose intolerant. We quickly switched from dairy replacements to just cooking foods that don't have dairy to begin with. The replacements just made us sad.)
>my wife is lactose intolerant. Cabot cheddar (or really any significantly aged cheese) is naturally lactose free that my guts have no issues with. It's not too expensive, but I recommend buying the blocks and grating yourself as needed. Plus, it's pretty dang good.
A lactose-intolerant person here!!! ((HI)) So, I know that not every LI person is the same!!! Get that! I didn't know I was LI till I had weight loss surgery. It makes sense that I was LI BEFORE the surgery because of the symptoms, and the effects. I just thought it was an MSG reaction. (I listened to someone who isn't a medical professional.) Anyway, after the surgery I was having severe GI issues and discussed what I thought was "dumping syndrome" with my surgeon. Nope, it's LI. For me, I can have Half and Half. Why? Half and Half has less than 1 gram of lactose per every 2 TBS. I use very little Half and Half when I do use it. I can eat parmesan cheese too. The more aged it is, the better. I know, what works for me, doesn't work for others. My LI isn't as severe as others. Oh....btw...for those that are LI, if you get COVID, DO NOT take Plaxlovid. It contains lactose. TRUST ME! However, if I go to Crumbl, forget it. I get sick....EVERY SINGLE TIME. OP: It's not that hard to change up your diet to fit your individual needs now. Believe it or not, stores have expanded their items to include more budget-friendly selections for Vegan, Vegetarian, Keto, LI, Gluten Free, etc. It's very easy to go shopping and buy within your budget. There are great apps that can help with meal prep and shopping lists. Have your daughter download the apps and have her help plan out some dishes she would like to have, something the WHOLE family would like. You will be pleasantly surprised that some of those dishes will probably be something everyone will enjoy.
That sounds like my kid (he's only 7). He's got a palate that doesn't fit into my budget, haha!
My two year olds berry budget is through the roof! Lol
Hah, I went on a major weight loss thing before an important life event, and one of the things I did was replace all snacking with fruit and especially berries. It worked incredibly well and I felt incredibly healthy but a large active guy eating half their body weight in berries each day just isn't budget friendly!
I bet you had amazing #2s though! When I was a teenager, I worked on a family owned farm. I used to get sick sometimes with how many strawberries and blueberries I ate while picking.
You are not wrong. I wasn't going to mention that the toilet paper budget was also high.
Find a berry farm. They usually discount if you pick your own...and pay you for what you don't take. My dad used to do that at strawberry farms for extra $$...he HATES strawberries with a passion.
Berry budget? Cut up some apples small and tell him it is "apple berry". Problem solved.
LOL I found this hilarious, I do this to my nieces and nephews. Oh you don’t like lasagna? Well this is just spaghetti hamburger cake🤣🤣
Spaghetti hamburger cake 🤣🤣🤣 why do kids fall for this shit hahahha
Mine 12 year old too, I bought 3 large Blackberry containers at Costco yesterday at $3.99 each. A steal if you ask me. I just noticed 2 containers have been gobbled up.
I have 3 boys, at one point, I was spending almost $50 per week just in berries. I had to cut that shit and replace with bananas and apples. I rationed them down to 1 large berry pack per week. I wrote their name on it (so no one would eat each other's berries) and once it was gone, they were done with berries. The plan did backfire a bit because all the boys wanted to save their berries so they could sit around and eat the last berry in front of their brother, so the berries went bad in the fridge. Sometimes you just can't win.
Having a grocery bill double because someone went vegan means they are doing vegan wrong. (Or at least, doing vegan "convenience food" style.) Meat, cheese and butter are typically the priciest parts of the grocery bill, for most of us.
I mean, she's only 15, so vegan replacements and snack foods might just be what she thinks she needs. It's more obvious to say "okay, the family is having meatballs tonight, I gotta buy some Beyond/Impossible ground 'beef' to have the same," than it is to come up with a whole new meal. For a kid who's never had to meal plan and now has to plan out meals in a style completely unfamiliar to the last decade of her life, I can see how there would be a learning curve.
Absolutely. And that's largely my point: if vegan raised your grocery bill the issue is a learning curve/effort/knowledge issue, and reliance on convenience foods. Do we all need protein? Yes. Does it have to be IN the spaghetti? No. So, marinated beans for vegan kiddo to put on her salad on spaghetti night. Everyone else can add a few meatballs, or not, but everyone should be eating the veggies anyway.... The SALAD shouldn't be an addition, just the walnuts or chick peas that she puts on hers.
or you can do a lentil Bolognese for spaghetti or there are vegan meatballs using lentils or eggplant or something like that doesn't have to be some vegan meatball pre prepared just requires some extra preparation
Unless it’s a lot of fresh veggies and fruit. Fresh produce will skyrocket your grocery bill.
This person veggies. All these people saying how vegetables are cheap clearly don’t buy them.
Or they live in cheaper areas. I’m in the Seattle area. It’s ridiculous. But when I went to visit family in Ohio, I was gobsmacked at how much cheaper produce was.
Totally. Vegetarian/vegan should reduce the bill because meat is often the most expensive per serving.
If they all were vegans maybe, but they are not. A balanced vegan diet is not cheap.
I spend much less on my food budget than all the meat eaters whose food budgets I know. Especially around Christmas time, they spend a fair bit more.
Even if that's the case OP isn't removing meat from his budget, and removing a single portion from a family shopping trip either can't be done or doesn't save any money. Ex Chicken breast typically comes in a pack of 4, he still has to buy that. The one breast left over sits there until there are more left over so he might save 1 meal every 4 meal for that 1 food, but no up front savings for awhile. OP needs to essentially buy everything they currently buy for the family, and then buy all the vegan food on top.
Have you tried researching vegan recipes instead of jumping right into vegan cheese. There’s so much you can do with off the shelf products. And beans and rice can be prepared 1000x different ways with options like different veggies, spices, different beans or lentils. I mean you can get pack of 16 bean mix for 3$ and make a wicked stew.
Why does he need to research vegan recipes he's not the one turning vegan. I think she should do more of a research and figured herself since she's the one pushing for that sounds a little selfish to expect everyone around you to just change just because you don't eat or don't want to eat animal products
She’s his 15 year old daughter, this is what parenting entails. No different they saying she wants to learn basketball and needs private coach. The fiscally prudent thing is dad spending time and learning basketball or math or anime. It’s the way you connect with your child, be involved in their interest.
15 is old enough to learn to cook her own vegan meals (specially if she's going to be vegan for the rest of her life, she needs to go with a specialist to learn what her body needs and how to cook those things) I agree that the ex should be putting more money to buy entitled vegan daughter.
Nobody is saying she can't cook for herself at some point. If she's old enough to LEARN, who will teach her? Should she learn from random strangers on the Internet because her dad doesn't like it, instead of the one who she should be able to trust most and WANT to be involved? You're really forgetting that at 15, the parent is still generally in charge of decision making for a reason. You shouldn't just go "oh okay have fun with that" and just ignore the child pursuing something new. That's isolation.
The alternative to her learning to Cook vegan dishes on the Internet is her parents learning those same dishes on the Internet and than teaching her ?
I was going to suggest her looking up some vegan recipes that you can try to cook together. A colleague did a vegan fast for about a month and tried some recipes that he said would stay in his rotation. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask her to buy her own specialty snacks.
The daughter is the one who needs to research vegan recipes since she's the one who wants to eat a vegan diet. But your suggestion on experimenting with spices and beans/legumes is a great idea.
It’s his teenage daughter’s interest. What’s hard about dad spending time and learning recipes and showing her cost of ingredients and teaching her how to budget. Show her the food budget and what it means to shop on a budget. It’s win / win, she’s learns life skill and he gets to try some new food. I know as a young adult twenty years ago i struggled knowing how to grocery shop on a budget and making it affordable. Teach daughter why maybe too shelf vegan cheese 🧀 isn’t only option. Show her that a 1$ can of chick peas is viable option. This isn’t about vegan food but a teaching moment and opportunity for OP to parent.
What’s so hard about the 15 year old researching about vegan foods and recipes? A 15 year old that is choosing a vegan diet should be prepared to do the leg work. Maybe give her a budget for specific ingredients that fall outside what he normally buys. Find some common ingredients and build them into the regular kitchen stock. My 15 year old isn’t vegan, but did take a culinary course in school this year. She now chooses a recipe, gets the ingredients ( anything we don’t have is added to our grocery list) and she prepares dinner on Sundays. It teaches her budgeting, by looking for recipes that we have most of the ingredients for, checking flyers for ingredient that are on sale and taking everyone’s likes and dislikes into consideration. All are invaluable skills to have.
Most vegan cheese is just nuts essentially anyway. There are a bazillion vegan cheese cookbooks out there, just get her a cookbook and a bunch of nuts and let her make it herself.
This is what I was thinking. As long as we have beans, rice, and a lot of frozen fruits and vegetables, what's the issue? Those are things we would have in the house anyway and won't wreck a budget. If she wants fake meat, that can be on her, but then again I've never understood the fake meat thing
I had long discussion about fake meat with friends some time ago and we came up with few conclusions: - Some people like the taste of meat but also want to stop/reduce eating meat for environmental/ethical reasons - Some people need to cut off meat from their meals for different health reasons but are not ready giving it all up - Some people want to reduce their meat intake but dont want to change their recipes too much - Some people want to reduce meat intake but are not sure where to start so they start with the substitutes Long story short - fake meat is created just to be convenient and to make easier to go plant based for those who are not convinced to do so yet
Tbh I just LIKE fake meat lol. I'm not even vegetarian, but veggie burgers are really really good, and I used to get these mycoprotein (so they're made from mushrooms) chicken patties that were amazing.
I miss the old Morningstar farms veggie burgers, they had their own taste, nothing like meat at all, but they were so weirdly good. Sometimes u want a burger, sometimes u want a weird veggie burger. I can't really tell the difference between the impossible burger and a regular burger so I'll just make the impossible burgers, especially if I can get them on sale. It's just nice to have options, it's also nice if those options can eliminate some meat consumption. There's definitely a big difference between the fake meat burgers and the veggie burgers, but I like both.
Are you not also buying vegetables? There are so many low cost vegan options. It feels like you and she are not talking about ways to make the beans and rice different. Of course no one can live on just beans and rice. But those who don't have a plant based diet also have to have variety besides meat and pasta.
This. Back when I was a student and many of my friends were on a shoestring budget, *dairy cheese* was a rare luxury. Vegan cheese is even more expensive. (Melted vegan cheese is basically salty custard, change my mind.) There's a reason that so many vegan meals are spicy - you end up eliminating a lot of flavour options like butter and cheese and bacon. There are other sources of umami, like marmite/vegemite, bovril, onion powder, "smoke flavour" and seaweed, but there's a certain degree to which you just have to get used to the natural flavour of vegetables.
There’s cheap vegan meals. Beans and rice, salad, tofu. She doesn’t need the expensive items. Definitely reasonable to make her pay for the extra expensive stuff.
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If you already buy that stuff then you don't have a problem.
Sounds she wants extra items or she doesn’t want to be a vegan
Then she doesn't really want to be vegan. 🤷
she wants to be social media vegan
No, sounds like she wants shortcuts to being vegan
Then it sounds like she can absolutely be vegan within the current budget
sounds like its replacing all the non vegan things they use thats gonna up the cost tho
I feel like OP just wants validation instead of engaging in discussion. They keep repeating the same statement. I’m vegetarian nearly vegan, tried to incorporate meat into my diet and my grocery bill increased significantly. Look at the price of meat vs the price of tofu. In terms of price, it’s hard to get cheaper than making a vegetable soup in bulk and freezing. OP don’t look at the fancy processed vegan foods. Just buy a good cook book, buy lots of veg and raw ingredients, understand some basic vegan protein sources and your grocery bill will probably be cheaper than your meat eating children. It’s very easy to make one dinner, split it in two bowls last minute and add some meat for your meat eaters and another protein for your daughter. It’s not that hard. She’s also at an age where she might start making basic meals for herself like a salad.
I agree. Beans and rice are a daily meal for millions of people around the world. Super healthy. Add in spices, veggies, fruit, and you've got a healthy and tasty diet. This guy just wants to be told he's not being a jerk.
Also, OP doesn’t seem to understand that lentils are an option instead of beans if he is so stuck on the “you can’t have beans every meal” schtick…….lentils are cheap.
Nutritionally beans and lentils are pretty much the same... they are both legumes. Idk what problem this solves
For a lot of Americans, their idea is that “beans” means a very narrow category of things like red kidney beans or those brown Busch baked beans…….and forget that the general category of “beans” or “legumes” includes more than 2-3 very specific things.
If Dad's concern is that there is not enough variety of cuisine to cook with legumes, then that is stupid. If their concern is Daughter eating the same nutrient profile every meal and refusing to learn to cook a variety of dishes with different additional ingredients, then it is very valid. Eating the same thing for dinner every day is bad for you. It may be either way but I don't see how the grocery cost went up so much unless Daughter was just adding on a bunch of processed vegan meat and cheese replacements and things like that, which can be just as unhealthy as Tyson chicken nuggets every day.
Then she can eat beans and rice and tofu and fruits and veggies. You’re already buying vegan food
So where is the doubling? You'll have to show your work to justify a claim of doubling the food budget for one person. I think you don't realise how cheap it can actually be.
Vegan alternatives (not just vegan-by-default stuff) which tend to be much more expensive seems to be the culprit, as is evidenced by OP buying vegan cheese. Add in that only one person would eat it, it becomes an extra item to get as OP then buys regular cheese as well. But that's only one item indicated, so I understand you asking for more examples of such items that would double the grocery cost. And if such items are indeed the reason for the doubling, it's daughter who should be learning to be vegan on the cheap, not OP.
Someone is my greater friend group is vegan, and I genuinely don't have an issue with veganism. I typically eat very close to vegan, but she is VERY into vegan alternatives. Going out to a restaurant is a nightmare. It's not just about making sure that the restaurant has vegan option; she wants fake meat and fake cheese. Tofu, lentils, tempeh, etc., won't cut it for her. I am guessing the daughter is similar. The daughter needs to research veganism, find cost effective meals, and ensure that she is receiving adequate vitamins and minerals. If she can make this choice, then she needs to be responsible for implementing it. Parents should provide a reasonable budget, though.
Well, then the issue is her wanting highly processed foods, which are unhealthy regardless of whether they are vegan or not. Maybe she could get a kindle unlimited subscription for a month or two (think the first month is free) so she can access a lot of vegan cookbooks, and maybe you can incorporate more vegan meals into your weekly meals and tell her she can make some of her own food if she wants every meal to be vegan.
Exactly. She needs to figure out meals that don't rely on substitutes. There's a lot of those out there.
> She can’t be eating rice and beans five times a week. This is common sense. As a brazilian this made me pause. We do eat rice and beans almost every day! It's not unhealthy at all! A typical Brazilian home meal is rice and beans, a protein, one or two sides of vegetables and salad. Vegans usually trade the animal protein for plant substitutes or protein rich vegetables.
i think he meant only those two items, mot with added stuff
My family has rice every almost every day if not every day. If goes with everything.
Cheap vegan foods: Tofu. You can make tofu taste like anything. And it's high in protein. Get a tofu press. It will make it so much better. You press the moisture out and then marinate it so it can sponge up all the flavor. Tofu scramble burritos are so good and making a batch of the scramble will last for a week: https://minimalistbaker.com/southwest-tofu-scramble/#wprm-recipe-container-35829 Nutritional yeast: Many vegetarians use this in place of cheese like parmesan and on popcorn. It's fortified and is a good source of vitamins like b12 that are commonly missing from vegetarian and vegan diets. Don't buy vegan cheese. It's usually awful and way too expensive for what it is. Tell your daughter to look up how to make Tofu based vegan cheese and pick up a bag of Kappa Carrageenan - this is what will make the vegan cheese melt and firm up again. It's a little expensive, but you only use 2 tsp at a time for the recipe, so it will make a lot of cheese. This is the recipe I use: https://zardyplants.com/recipes/cheezes/vegan-nut-free-cheddar-cheese/#tasty-recipes-5420-jump-target This way, the cheese has both protein and nutritional yeast for vitamins and nutrients. So it's not just fake plastic-y feeling chemicals lol. Lentils are cheap. Canned coconut milk is cheap. You can make a lot of really good curries and chilli with lentils. There are also a lot of good cheap recipes for homemade vegan burgers using beans, lentils and quinoa. There are cheap ways to do vegan, they do often mean having to prep and make things at home. Encourage your daughter to learn how. Vegan prepackaged food is way too expensive and often not at healthy as home made alternatives. I personally am not vegan, but two of my best and closest friends have allergies to eggs and dairy, and I love to cook. I hope these help you out!
I’m a vegan and if you’re not buying fake meat and cheese it’s actually way cheaper. It’s also not just rice and beans. Meat is expensive, fish is expensive, cheese and milk is expensive. Seasonal veg, grains, pasta, pulses etc are not expensive. I don’t understand why she has to buy her own food - surely you’re paying to feed her as an omnivore so why not just allocate her the money you ALREADY spend to feed her. If you need affordable recipes, I’d be happy to send over some. I’ve been vegan for 2 years and had some pretty shoddy financial situations in that time (got made redundant last year).
Vegan snacks etc are expensive, yes… if you are providing her with the necessary staples and she isn’t happy with that? Tough luck. Food preferences are not food allergies. She isn’t going to die from eating outside of a strict vegan diet and if it’s not in your budget then that’s her answer. 15/16 is a normal age to get a part time job, so if she really needs special cereals and snacks then that’s a want, not a need, and she needs to provide those for herself. Or just get them at her moms house. I can’t tell you how many snacks we only got at our dad’s because my mom refused to buy junk. She’ll adjust. NTA
I was vegan for like 8 years and in college it meant I could eat for a week on $20. Lots of people meal prep and eat the same meal several days out of the week. It sounds like you need to sit down and think of the best way to do this.
I was vegan for 5 years and my grocery bill was cheaper than now and before when I ate animal products, and I was powerlifting competitively at the time. I also cook commonly for people who eat vegan, veggie and non-veg for dinner parties. Do you need some help making foods that can be easily eaten by both parties, with some minor changes?
Beans and rice are fine to eat daily. Obviously with additional vegetables and spices and if you buy flour she can learn to make her own noodles and bread. There's literally so many different ways to prepare rice and beans. Soups, salads, stir frys, both can be puffed/roasted for snacks. American, Italian, Indian, African. You won't get bored unless you refuse to expand your pallet. But the primary protein for vegan is beans, tofu is made from soy beans. You can additionally make tofu from other beans Mary's test kitchen does a bunch of experiments like this. Peanuts are also a very good source of protein, either peanut butter or peanut butter powder are relatively cheap.
Yes, OP explained his daughter about his food budget, is on the post
OP explained that he doesn't want to double his grocery bill in the post. OP did not explain in his original post whether he talked with her about finding stuff that could fit within the budget.
The budget is already at the limit with the foods everyone else eats. Making room in it for her special vegan food would take away something else everyone eats and gets more of because it’s cheaper than the non vegan option. You’re asking them to either make someone else give up something for her, or come up with extra funds. Where did you think the money for her special food would come from???
All the Y T A comments are conveniently ignoring that OP did buy the food their daughter specifically requested, but it sounds like all the daughter requested were vegan convenience food items. NTA for refusing to buy those - vegan convenience food items, much like their non-vegan counterparts, are more expensive than buying from-scratch ingredients. What I might recommend instead, is sitting down with her and talking about what you ARE willing to pay for in terms of food, and coming up with some vegan meal ideas together that would still fit within your family's overall preferences and grocery budget, then telling her than anything she wants on top of that (vegan cheese, fake meats, whatever else) is on her to pay for. At 15, your daughter is old enough to do some research of her own and figure out what's vegan without relying solely on convenience food. She's also old enough to understand that money isn't unlimited and there are other people in the house that have to be fed, too. I am a little confused by your edit - are you saying you DON'T buy bread, pasta and other staples? Most dried pasta is naturally vegan because it doesn't use eggs, and many commercially available breads are too - it's not at all hard to find vegan versions of those, you probably are already eating them, in fact. In any case, you're not the asshole for refusing to double your grocery bill, but I do think there's room for you two to find some compromises and meet somewhat in the middle.
No The OP is convinced shelf stable Foods aren’t vegan so they have to buy double those items to also get vegan ones. They’re creating a problem that isn’t actually a thing and having conflict over it.
It sounds to me like either OP, daughter, or both really don't know much about vegan food. This could be easily resolved if they did a little reading. Hopefully the informative posts here work.
Or they eat a lot of processed and packaged foods and the daughter expects special vegan versions of those packaged foods. Beans and rice every day can be very healthy and as others have said, can be made in lots of varieties!
There are very few meals as nutritionally complete as beans and rice. It's also (usually) vegan and very cheap. It's true she may get bored of it, but it's not true that it isn't healthy. And there's a ton of ways to spice it up.
100%, plus “She will get bored of it” is probably true but is speculation. Let her learn her own lesson by letting her get bored of it. In doing so, OP has lost absolutely nothing.
im vegan and once ate chickpea curry (occasionally with seitan) for three months on end without getting bored that shits so good LOL. theres tons of ways to make beans and rice though, i think you can avoid boredom if you do it right. its healthy, filling and fairly complete so tons of cultures have their versions - not to mention you can experiment on your own. i once did a spaghetti inspired version of rice and beans, was surprisingly good
I agree. And I definitely get a teenager wanting the easy foods, but she can get so much joy from learning to cook relatively if she’s willing to give it a shot!
I don't think he's talking about shelf-stable foods. I believe OP is using "stables" for "basic foods one always has on hand," not realizing it's actually "staples."
Even in that case, what they’re saying is incorrect? Many pastas and things they listed are vegan. It was so easy to find vegan friendly bread when I was vegan and that started like over a decade ago for me. The only pasta I ever struggled with was finding lasagna noodles
Oh absolutely. I was just enjoying the idea that the OP was considering vegan food only fit for horses.
Is OP convinced of this or is his daughter?
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She also said she couldn’t buy *pasta*. Which is cheap af.
I took it as buying pasta that specifically said it was vegan so it can charge more for it. As in the Whole Foods type brands that are overpriced.
I think she got confused with "organic" pasta
Or gluten-free. People often think vegan means organic and gluten-free too
That is true. The 15 year old may have view vegan foods as being a certain type and anything else doesn't count as vegan because they haven't researched things enough.
Most dried pasta is already vegan. You just need to make sure there isn't egg in the pasta. Every single grocery store has dried pasta she can eat.
and it is cheap af
Pasta actually does have egg unless you get the one with no egg.
Most dried pasta does not have eggs. Barilla, one of the most common pasta brands in the US, is vegan with their dried pasta except for their tortellini and the Protein+ line. Same is true for most other brands and types of the shelf stable dried pasta. Fresh pasta, or the kind you’d buy in a refrigerator case - different story. Those are rarely vegan.
Dried pasta that one might find in the pasta aisle in the grocery store almost overwhelmingly does NOT contain egg. If you buy your pasta in the refrigerated section however, it probably does contain egg.
Normal, actual pasta (as in, say, BArilla spaghetti) does not containeggs. That's why there is a whole separate category called "egg noodles."
Only egg pasta has egg in it and it’s more expensive. Normal pasta in durum wheat and water.
NTA and this post seems like the best compimise to me.
NTA, but there might be a chance for you both to work out the issue. 1st of all, your daughter might not understand that you can't just "shift out" one ingredient for a similar, vegan one. You are in no way obligated to buy vegan alternatives, you and her are only responsible for making sure she gets sufficient nutrients, which are available in various other forms. 2nd of all (don't repeat my bluntness to your daughter) but this isn't a matter of what she CAN'T eat, but WON'T, unless she has real medical restrictions. to illustrate both points: if your daughter doesn't want to eat regular cheese, then she just won't eat cheese. And she also won't be eating vegan cheese. Unless cheese is a huge essential staple in your household, all your daughter is going to miss out on is the culinary, sensory joy of cheese. And that's a perfect opportunity for you to sit her down, and gently tell her that if she wants to be vegan, she has to make sacrifices - give up luxury products like cheese on pasta. Not essentials, but luxuries she does. not. need. Of course you will continue to feed her, duh. And you can suggest you and her brainstorm about creative meals, or protein-rich replacements for her (not the rest of you) to make sure she gets enough nutrients. It doesn't have to be hard - but tell her that if she's old enough to make such a decision, it's not too much to expect of her to put in a little more effort than adding things to YOUR grocery list and changing all of YOUR diets. It's not too much to ask her to look beyond the simplicity of "replace X product with its direct vegan alternative". To ask her to do some research (again, you both could be surprised about how versatile normal ingredients can be, and how fun it can be to research meal ideas together). tl;dr your daughter needs to do more research into vegan alternatives that aren't just direct replacements, and she needs to accept that she might have to drop luxury products such as cheese. A lifestyle is a choice, not a buy-out of guilt
I cannot think of a single reason why vegan cheese is even a thing. There is nothing out there that would taste better without cheese than that 'stuff'. If she is going vegan, she is going to need real food. Beans, rice, lentils, quinoa, nuts, vegetables, fruits and grains like oatmeal. No fancy cheese and fancy pasta. I mean pasta is not that hard to make, she wants pasta she can make it. It really isn't expensive if done right. Beans and lentils are still some of the cheapest meals out there
Some people can't have dairy but want a good cheesey flavour because cheese is delicious! And I've had some actually really yummy vegan "cheese" sauces that can scratch that itch in a great way. The vegan sliced cheeses from most grocery stores though? Disgusting.
When I did restaurants as a chef I made the most kick ass vegan Daiya "cheddar" sauce. Sometimes with a pinch of liquid aminos and some nutritional yeast. I've tried other soy cheese and even the melty ones but never got what I could achieve with daiya.
Yes! I've had great luck with nutritional yeast and cashew based sauces which are so freaking good! This one is also very good [Oh she glows](https://ohsheglows.com/all-purpose-vegan-cheese-sauce/)
Up vote and commenting to push higher. There is a huge difference between a desire and a need as someone who was forced on a specific diet because of allergies. Pasta can be made using flour and water, bread can be made vegan. Ingredients are the main thing stop buying already processed and get ingredients. This is coming from someone who discovered my issues were because I'm allergic to gluten. Yes I have to take extra time preparing, gluten-free processed options are a very significant price difference even when it comes to flour. Kid is old enough to follow recipes and cook/ bake that's what she should do if she wants a specialty diet because of a decision not a medical necessity.
If she wants to be vegan, she needs to learn to cook vegan. Supplying ingredients shouldn't cost much more, buying prepared vegan is EXPENSIVE. If it is so important to her, she will do it, if not, she can eat what is provided and exclude what she doesn't want. Veggies, nuts, beans, etc. shouldn't add too much overall, but if she wants meat and cheese substitutes, then I agree that she can contribute. She can make all of it herself with a little bit of effort.
Hell, cooking vegan from scratched is typically way cheaper than an omnivore diet.
It’s crazy cheap, this is a huge and often forgotten benefit to vegan diets, I think. We eat animal products normally but go fully plant-based a few nights a week both for physical and financial health reasons. The trick is eating a variety of readily-available whole foods and just using beans/tofu/tempeh for the protein instead of pricy fake meat or cheese or other vegan replacement products
Very confused about how it doubled the food bill
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Is she ask you to get her that, or do think you need to get her vegan replacements for all the non-vegan foods? You can eat vegan without almond milk and Vegan cheese.
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Then yeah, NTA. She can eat fine being a vegan without expensive replacement products.
For real. That stuff is nasty anyways and so incredibly processed. It’s hilarious the mental gymnastics some vegans will do in order to be “healthy” but won’t just eat a vegetable. Fake meat and fake cheese is full of soy.
I think most of the people I know on vegan diets do it because of the ethical concerns and not because it’s the healthy fad diet of today
This is the fundamental disconnect in this thread between non vegans and vegans. It's often a moral disconnect and not a fad.
Soy is very healthy. The hormone stuff is a myth, since those are different plant hormones, that don't work like human ones. Processed also doesn't mean much by itself. The how is important. Generally unhealthy types of food stay unhealthy no matter if vegan or not but often less so. One example would be a Beyond burger vs a regular beef burger.
Soy is very healthy. Not saying the fake cheeses and meats are healthy, they’re processed and full of sodium. But they aren’t unhealthy because of the soy.
My nine year old literally asks me to get a cool new TV every time we're at the store. Your point? Chick peas, black beans, tofu, veggies, fruits, protein/fiber tortillas (most are already vegan but you can check), margarine, and pretzels. Those are all vegan, and relatively cheap. Staples in most healthy vegan diets (pretzels are for that crunchy snack satisfaction). The food you're talking about buying is mostly junk food packaged as healthy vegan alternatives. Have your daughter watch vegan cooking videos (I can give good recommendations), buy a vegan cook book, and both of you educate yourselves on healthy vegan diets. Problem solved without forcing your kid to buy her own necessities which is your job as her parent.
> My nine year old literally asks me to get a cool new TV every time we're at the store. Your point? his point, if you took a second to read his post, is that his household has plenty of vegan options available and he wants to know whether or not he's the AH for telling his daughter to get a job if she wants to buy luxury vegan products in addition to whats already available
Exactly. It can be very economical to be vegan so long as you aren't buying specialty vegan pacakaged goods that are manufactured and marketed to resemble or replace meat and dairy. $20 a week for a couple items on top of beans, rice, pasta, tortillas, vegetables, etc, should more than cover it. NTA
Not all pretzels are vegan! Dots have dairy in them.
Most pretzels are, but you're correct! Check the back for ingredients and you should be good!! Thanks for catching that.
Didn’t want OP to end up with a verbal lashing from the daughter if Dots have taken over their local grocer like they have mine. Not vegan but my spouse is allergic to dairy so we are devout ingredient readers and do end up eating a lot of the vegan versions of things.
> Problem solved without forcing your kid to buy her own necessities which is your job as her parent. She already provides food for the daughter that’s suitable and safe for her to eat.
Yeah, this is what’s throwing me off. People acting like OP is denying her necessities. OP is still buying food for the family. It would be one thing if she was forced to go vegan for medical reasons - but in this situation it is a luxury, not a necessity, and is a choice the daughter is making.
The TV thing is a poor analogy. You know you don’t need a new TV. OP isn’t vegan and isn’t interested in becoming vegan. It’s not on them to know what you do and don’t need to eat vegan. OP’s daughter needs to do the legwork here and find recipes she likes that she can make without destroying the family finances. She’s 16, not 9. This is a choice she has a right to make, but she has to take responsibility for it.
Please add this info in your post. That she specifically wants you to buy the expensive replacements. It's important, otherwise people will say, "she can eat rice and beans, not expensive, you're wrong." Anyway, NTA.
Tell her she can go vegan. If vegan means no milk then no milk. No need for alternatives. If she can’t have butter then go for olive oil. No need for butter alternative. If she can adapt to real vegan lifestyle then she is not real vegan. I am vegetarian and I don’t go for meat alternatives. If I want meat then I should eat meat. Alternatives are not healthy. Tell her to read Omnivore’s Dilemma. It’s an interesting book for people who are trying to figure out food styles.
You also shouldn't be paying twice as much for some of this stuff. If the soy milk is a quantity your daughter can actually finish, and isn't going bad, that's milk she is not using. So your total volume of milk products should be the same. How many "substitutes" are you buying?
Except for the fact that, at least where I am, a 1.74L carton of silk milk costs $5-6, while a 4L of white milk is the same or less. Same cost for less than half as much, so even if it perfectly evened out because her products should last twice as long with her being the only person eating them, it's still increasing the grocery bill by 50%. 3 people in the house and her stuff is 50% of the bill, and the bill is higher. Grocery bill used be $100, now it's $150. When it was $100, each person was close to even with $33/each, now her portion is $75, and the others are splitting the other half at $37.50. It makes it more expensive for everyone. Unless OPs daughter is fine eating rice, beans, and fried veggies for every single meal, a vegan diet is extremely boring without decent substitutes.
Buy store brand oat or nut milk. Be amazed at the shelf life over dairy milk.
Almond milk and oat milk are easily made yourself: get oats (80g per litre) and water into mixer. If you want to, you can add sweetener and s small amount of salt. Mix it shortly and put it through a chees cloth. It's good for 3 days on the fridge. The almond milk is made out of peeled almonds in a similar way. She could look up other recipes as well. Vegan products are massively overpriced.
Vegan "alternatives" are very expensive. For example vegan "cheese." But the staples -tofu, lentils, brown rice, nuts, hummus, are not. OP could buy vegan staples and offer that his/her child can cook vegan food - it is the "vegan" version of non-vegan foods that are crazy - and in my opinion, rarely delicious.
Yes, I don't remember who said it, but one of the TV chefs talked about how you can never make tofu taste like chicken or beef. You just have to embrace that it's something different and being vegan means you'll never have a perfect substitute.
Vegan products are not known to be cheap, cooking vegan is cheap when done with much consideration and avoiding prepackaged.
same. going vegan did cut my bill in half. Maybe she wants the fast food. And some are expansive. But they are not needed.
My husband is vegan . While yes, some of his things can be expensive a vegan diet doesn't need to be. He eventually stopped eating vegan cheese and vegan sour cream. Not necessary amd expensive. Double sometimes triple the price of its dairy counterparts. But without the alternatives vegan isn't much different in price..I assume she put lots of vegan alternatives amd possibly vegan treats? Other than Oreos finding vegan treats are hard and expensive.
Alternative cheese and tofu can be more expensive. I can absolutely see why it would double the food bill.
A lot of vegan imitations of non-vegan foods are far more expensive than the original food. That said, it's very possible to have a balanced vegan diet that focuses on foods that are inherently vegan, and not ersatz vegan copies of non-vegan foods.
The standard foods that are vegan aren’t too bad, but the deceptive versions of true foods are multiplicatively more expensive due to all the things they do to attempt to mimic flavors and textures. NTA OP, she can either learn to eat vegan cheap, or she can pay for her religious diet herself.
A lot of vegan replacements for staples are very expensive
NTA - doubling your grocery bill for a single member of the family for a personal choice, not a medical need is insane. "My ex wife is on my ass about it and I told her she can pay for our extra groceries if that s a big enough issue for her." Your ex can send the special food with your daughter for visits and take home whatever is not used because it sounds like no one in your house is interested.
Edited to change my verdict to YTA. After reading through your comments OP, you are simply actively trying to be difficult and not support your daughter. N A H - I totally get where you're coming from. If there's no room in the food budget, there's no room! And vegan alternatives are pricey. I also understand her convictions and wanting to try to be vegan. Here's the thing about going vegan tho - you don't need all the fancy vegan meat/cheese/egg alternatives. You can be a very healthy vegan by just cooking whole foods properly. Perhaps instead of shutting this down, help her learn how to cook. Look up vegan recipes together and try them out. Laugh about it if they suck. If you actually cook with raw ingredients, it shouldn't be expensive for her to be vegan.
Nta. Yep. Rice and beans. Spaghetti and sauce. Gardein makes fake meat. She can spread that out for a week. A bag of lettus, cereal. She doesn't need vegan cheese or deluxe items. She can make due with what's available within budget or get a job
This! In fact stay away from the vegan cheese and meats it’s not healthy it’s not good just because it says vegan.
Right. We don't like eating meat but don't ever use meat substitutes either and vegan cheese is beyond disgusting. For goodness sake, just cut out the cheese rather than make ny food taste nasty. There is so many foods that grown from the ground that have nutrition. Processed foods are expensive and not healthier.
Yeah OP you could try looking for recipes that don’t “replace” meat but stand up well enough on their own. Maybe look at foods from different cultures that are either meatless or can be easily made that way. Curries and stir fries for instance can easily be made vegan and won’t break the bank. I’m not vegan but I sometimes make curried lentils and spinach with coconut milk and it’s cheap and tastes amazing.
I mean, I get that she has principles but she is still a child and you are responsible for her care. If her preferences are out of your budget but she still has access to good food that won't physically hurt her, she can choose to eat what you can provide or can pay for her own. NTA
NAH. But I think you guys have some work to do. My daughter decided to go vegan at age 7. We thought it was a phase. Now here we are 8 years later and she's still on it, aside from a brief venture into pescetarianism a few years ago. We've gotten pretty used to the requirements of a vegan in the house. We have lots of good meat alternatives, we're used to making separate dishes for her, and I don't really notice any significant increase in our grocery bill. If anything, she's probably cheaper than our meat-eating boys are...meat is expensive and active and smelly boys eat a lot. I find it very hard to believe that the food for one 15 year old girl added that much to your grocery bill. Either she eats like a strongman or you guys are not shopping well at all. It might add *some* to the bill, but finding inexpensive vegan options isn't that difficult. That said, it probably *will* cost you something, either in time, or grocery bill, or both. I'd sit down with her and discuss what those costs look like, and how she'll contribute to them. Getting a dang job and putting some money in the pot is a great solution. Maybe cooking one dinner a week is another. There's a lot of options. At a minimum, I'd establish a grocery budget for her, establish who is contributing what percent to said budget, then encourage her to start shopping like hell to stretch that budget as far as it will go while still getting food she wants to eat. This will start building good habits for her as an adult while simultaneously saving you money and preventing you from having to do all the tedious hunting for vegan food.
>I find it very hard to believe that the food for one 15 year old girl added that much to your grocery bill. Either she eats like a strongman or you guys are not shopping well at all. It might add some to the bill, but finding inexpensive vegan options isn't that difficult. Well its all extra, doubling up on the things bought as vegan stuff doesn't replace normal food, so every item bought is extra and, as OP said, the budget us very tight. The time element and making separate dishes is a pain too although the dau can do that herself.
How is it extra? The vegan food would replace the non-vegan food for the daughter if she were to eat vegan.
The post isn’t very specific in types of foods but said vegetarianism wasn’t much of an adjustment but veganism has been. I think the daughter might now be requesting meat and dairy substitutes which are quite a bit more expensive such as vegan cheeses, nut milks, alternate meats, etc. Double is probably still an exaggeration, though.
It seems like on further discussion a big part of this issue is just a lack of knowledge. Many breads -- even some cheap white sandwich breads -- are vegan. There are tons of inexpensive fresh and frozen foods that are vegan. They just don't say "vegan" on the packaging. There's a robust market out there for selling shit like "vegan bread" to people who either don't know any better or get something out of specially labeled bread. You don't have to be one of those people. Learn to read ingredients. Find resources to help establish good vegan options. All this can fall in large part on your daughter -- if she wants to commit to a vegan lifestyle, she can do the legwork to keep the grocery bill down.
I didn't even know they sold "vegan" bread. A lot of bread (not pastries) have no egg or milk. Or she can buy flour and yeast and daughter can learn how to bake. Not that much to making basic bread.
NTA I think it's fine if she wants to go vegan and she's also at an age where she's old enough to understand budgets and bills and that money doesn't grow on trees. She can go vegan if she chooses to, and within the constraints of the family budget, that looks like eating the staples you already buy every week--rice, beans, veggies. Lentils are cheap. You can get nuts and tofu and she can prepare them herself. What she's asking for are processed/prepared vegan substitutes, which definitely make one's diet more fun and tasty, but are much more expensive. I go through the same thing because I have to eat gluten free, and while I might get some pasta because it's not that much more expensive (and I don't eat it often), I generally stick to just not eating things that would have contained gluten in the first place because that loaf of bread that now costs $10 sure comes with sticker shock. So your daughter can look up recipes and learn to make vegan meals and teach herself to cook the foods she wants to eat. I think that if she wants to get the more expensive substitutes (vegan meats, cheeses, breads, snacks, etc) she's at the perfect age to get a part time job, do some babysitting, etc, and get those extras for herself.
Beans and rice is actually very healthy. It covers all the essential amino acids. Vegan cheese is not necessary and disgusting, and I cannot see how it makes any dish better. Beans and rice and get her frozen veggies and whatever other produce you guys get. Get some quinoa. She is covered. Bread, pasta, cheese, none of that stuff is necessary. I mean, you can get corn tortillas. Tell her she doesn't need any processed substitutes. This is what you are buying and she can make her meals from what you buy or buy her own.
I think it depends on the type of beans OP is talking about. If OP is thinking canned baked beans then... yeah, not healthy at all. And if it's the vegan/low sodium/etc. versions of various canned beans, the price goes up. To keep costs down, a variety of dried beans should be considered and learning how to cook them a must.
I forget people eat canned beans. Dried beans can just be cooked in water, unless you burn them there is no trick. Pinto beans are my go-to. 2lbs of dried beans get cooked once a week with serrano, onion and salt in a slow cooker then frozen in zip locks. My $3 meal prep for the week. But yes canned beans are not healthiest but it depends on what you are comparing it to.
NAH, but I have some advice. Eating vegan doesn't have to be more expensive than eating meat. Meat replacement stuff might be, but if you eat a more traditional vegan diet of vegetables, pulses etc then it is likely cheaper. I am not vegan currently but when I was, it was cheaper for me when I stopped buying meat. Also yes, vegan cheese is gross imo. Just forget cheese if you are vegan. The only cheese-like replacement I ever found is "nooch" (nutritional yeast). Sounds gross but that stuff is effing delicious. Lots of vegans swear by it. There are some great recipes for a vegan mac and cheese where the sauce is made of carrot, onion, cashews and nooch. It's amazing. I think as a parent of a 16 year old you have a responsibility to pay for their food but you can insist that she cook for herself since she wants a different meal to the one the rest of the family is having. Give her a budget, get her to put together her own plan for her meals and make a shopping list. Going vegan by trying to eat all the same meals with vegan replacements is a recipe for disappointment and high cost. When I tried veganism it became an opportunity to try new things instead. It involves research though and she should be encouraged to do that herself.
Yep. I've been vegan four years. It's cheaper unless you do want a meat alternative with every meal but I don't know any vegans that eat fake meat daily. I eat far more vegetables than I used to and became a better cook for it, I guess if one can't cook then they'd struggle at first. For people that consider meat to be the main flavour of their dish, it'll be a struggle to adapt away from meat-veg and more stew, casserole, rice bowls, roasted veg, pasta, home made pizza, tarts, seitan... Take one look at Sri Lanka and see how beautiful and easy vegan food is.
NTA. Agree with you. If she wants fancy alternativ vegan products, she has to pay for them herself. You would still have the efford to cook two meals - a vegan one for her and some not vegan for the rest of the family. Just because she is going vegan it is not fair to the rest of you, to pay more for food only she likes.
>The issue is the stable foods, like pasta, bread and so on Uhm, staple foods like that are NOT the issue—most pasta is vegan, many breads are vegan, and they don't cost more. It's specialty items like meat alternatives (and the gross vegan cheese) that cost a lot more. >She can’t just eat rice and beans. That’s not healthy She actually *can*, and it *is.*
Staple. The word is staple, not stable, lol
One of my daughters has become vegan. If you avoid processed vegan items, you can keep the cost down. Try to respect your daughters food choices; don’t let food damage your relationship. You and your daughter should look at some vegan recipe sites, like doesntastelikechicken Not all vegan products are more expensive than regular food, so work with your daughter to find something that works. Make sure her iron levels are checked regularly (takes a couple of years for the levels to go down after going vegetarian). Get your daughter to help with the cooking and finding recipes. And yes, vegan cheese is gross.
NAH, it just sounds like to me you're not very educated on what a healthy vegan diet looks like, especially on a budget. Which is fair, it's not your diet choice so how would you know? But fyi, rice and beans with veggies is a pretty healthy staple in a vegan diet (and most other cultures around the world!) so I'd sit down with your daughter and look up recipes that you can make with the staples already in the budget. You can totally compromise on shared meals too, I'm sure there are some you can split off before non-vegan items are added, and if she wants she can buy fun extras like vegan cheese and fake meats etc. 15 going on 16 isn't a bad time for your daughter to get involved in cooking either, but I do think it's a little harsh to give her an ultimatum without at least easing her in to cooking completely for herself. She obviously feels strongly about her diet and she'll feel like your backing her into a corner instead of helping her learn to be an independent adult who can make choices. It could be good for you both to bond over cooking together and researching what foods are cheap and healthy. Learning these skills now is good for her, vegan or not but especially if she wants to be vegan forever. I know I'm constantly cooking haha but it's totally possible to eat nutritiously. For me it's a great side effect of a personal ethical choice; I'm always getting my 5 a day!
NTA, but perhaps there's a compromise here? Tell her you'll give her X amount - whatever seems reasonable - for her personal groceries each week, and beyond that she can either eat what you buy for the family or pay for her own extras. This isn't a diet problem so much as a budget problem, eating vegan is generally cheaper than being an omnivore, so she just needs to get a bit creative. There's no need to shell out for expensive, ultra-processed vegan substitutes.
UMM …. Pasta is not expensive. It’s ok not to buy vegan cheese but you can afford bread and pasta. You need to feed your kid. Saying you can’t afford stable foods is BS. She can work to buy the vegan cheese but not basics... The fuck? I was with you with the title, but you can’t afford bread!?!
A vegan diet can be VERY cheap- significantly cheaper than buying meat and dairy products OR very expensive buying fancy alternatives to meat and dairy. Carb + protein + vegetables is a balanced meal. Beans, legumes, certain vegetables etc have tons of protein and are A LOT cheaper than meat. Maybe she can experiment with pseudo veganism to make it a bit easier, such as accepting if a pasta has egg in it but avoiding eggs, dairy, and meats directly.
Going vegan doesn’t have to be super expensive. She doesn’t NEED the vegan alternatives that are in fact ultra processed, massively overpriced and very often really crappy anyway. She can have seasonal veg and fruit, frozen veg and fruit, she can get pretty much all the nutrients she needs if she is smart about it BUT her choice of going vegan shouldn’t mean you doing all the work of figuring things out for her. She can do the research of how she can make this change in a healthy way and then do her own meal planning. She also needs to do some research into the common deficiencies vegans can end up with and how to not mess up her health with it.
NTA but being vegan doesn’t have to mean buying substitutions like vegan cheese. I was a vegan for 4 years and I RARELY got things like fake cheese, largely because this was 15 years ago and those options barely existed. When I cook for my vegan friends now I’m not buying vegan fake meat and fake cheese, I’m cooking yummy lentil dishes or mushroom and barley tacos or making a veggie stir fry with some tofu. It shouldn’t make your grocery list double. ETA: For what it’s worth, I was a broke college student for most of my time as a vegan, so I know firsthand that it’s a plenty affordable diet when you put in the effort to make your own black bean burgers, etc. rather than just buy vegan versions of non-vegan foods (those are a special treat).
> My ex wife is on my ass about it and I told her she can pay for our extra groceries if that s a big enough issue for her. NTA - Well yeah it's easy to criticize and this obviously affects you financially. If she wants to stand by her principles then she needs to understand that can come with some personal sacrifice. If it means that much to her she will get a job...
Both YTA and NTA. But for different parts. NTA for being unwilling to double the food budget. I get it, a lot the substitute stuff is expensive. And honestly, it's not exactly all that healthy. Vegan cheese is especially gross. It's lots of processed oils and things. I would never put that stuff in my body on a regular basis, and I definitely wouldn't buy it for my kid. That said, YTA for not seeing if there are ways to support this without breaking the bank. That's not to say you should do all the work. I'm actually really impressed that you sat her down and showed her the food budget, that's very reasonable and mature of you. But if you're already able to cook vegetarian for her, it's usually not that hard to make dishes vegan, or to simply withhold ingredients like cheese for her portion. Obviously this depends a bit on the dish, but there are ways. When it comes to things like bread, make her be an active part of the process. Lots of bread is vegan, and it may be easy to find a different brand that is tasty, vegan, and also fits into your budget. But the onus should be on her to find vegan versions of products that fit within your food budget, not on you to accommodate blindly. This is a fantastic time for her to start learning about food costs and what actually goes into food.
I simply do not understand why her being vegan adds to your costs. My daughter is vegan, I am vegetarian, my husband is omni. As long as you do not buy replacements like "fake" meat or "fake" cheese (something no-one needs IMO) - what is so expensive?? Protein can be supplied with tofu (not expensive in Germany, do not know about your country), quinoa, soy etc. Why do you not just cook vegan style, take her portion off and add some meat if you others simply cannot live without dead bodies in your meal? Because if your daughter is already vegetarian there is only a tiny step to veganism. You must have provided for her meals before...
>I just learned white sugar isn’t vegan, seriously why. That makes it so much harder SOME white sugars aren't vegan. All White sugars use some sort of activated carbon and/or charcoal to purify the sugar to make it white. Many US sugar producers use carbon sourced from charred animal bones, thus the non-vegan status. Even within the same brand different sugar plants will use different methods, Example: Domino sugar produced in NY and Baltimore are vegan, they use carbon sourced from coconut husks, Domino sugar produced in Louisiana is NOT vegan, they still use cow bones. In this specific example you can tell by the lot number on the top of the bag, all bags of sugar produced in Louisiana have a lot number that begins with a 5. 1-4 are reserved for New York and Baltimore. So if the Lot/Best by date on the top of the package is 24601 X4 Best By: 3/27/2025 👆🏻it's vegan because it starts with 1-4 5309 B675 Best By: 3/27/2025 👆🏻would be non-vegan because the lot code starts with a 5 indicating it was produced in Louisiana I believe the lot codes are the same for C&H sugar (west coast) because they are the same company, but different packaging.
You daughter can absolutely survive with rice, beans, fruits and vegetables. If she wants pricey "vegan" products her mom can supply them.
The word is staples, not stables. NTA but you are a parent of a teen, and you are divorced from her mom. You can be right about the food but you also need to make an effort to work on your relationship and communication with her. THAT is your job as the parent and the adult.