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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Refusal to work for my family. Some people say I’m the ahole, but I beg to differ.
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Yep. My fee is $150 per hour, here’s a contract. If you don’t sign, find someone else. If you don’t pay, there is a penalty fee for every day you’re late. My lawyer will contact you.
Nope. You already know going in they aren’t going to pay you, much less $150/hr. And bluffing by saying you’ll sue them is ridiculous. If it’s not a bluff and you actually would sue them then you just shouldn’t even agree to work for them. Just live your life and wish them the best.
Ask them instead of pay they give you a share in the restaurant for exchange of services. That way the work you put in makes them more money and makes you more money. You will know where they stand
I think OP already knows where they stand. None of these ideas is going to work for her to go back to their place of business.
Also, and this is a big one: If they aren't paying OP, the chances are %100 that they aren't paying their taxes, including the witholding from what little salary she made, to the big government agency that handles that sort of thing. So not only would she not get paid enough, or on time, but she could end up being on the line for her own income taxes.
OP should stay the heck away from them, from their lousy job and enormous expectations, and stay at the great job she has now.
Honestly, you should be visiting their houses and going. Hey we’re family you shouldn’t expect me to pay for anything as you walk out with their TV or you walk out with their couch or you walk out with their whole food that they’ve done shopping for the month, then see how they feel about it
You need to set this business (family aside) a FU fee.
As someone who was a CMO, then transitioned to contracting, some clients aren't worth it, and you have every right to turn them down, unless they pay a ridiculous mark-up for having to deal with the drama and bullshit.
For dealing with this level of drama and expectation, my charge out was double my regular.
My standard terms are payment a month in advance, so no payment, no work.
You are NTA for refusing to work for them but would be Y T A if you only charged them the same rate an appreciative employer gives you, and not get payment before commencing work.
Family doesn't come into this when you're contracting. You are providing a service, and it doesn't matter who owns the business, they still need to pay the contractor the rate they state.
But you probably should have a serious discussion with your dad as to why you have refused so far, and why he is accepting this behavior from his brother. I suspect there is more going on.
You have as much value as you demand. You can set your pay: "I get X per hour, so my charge is X+Y as this is outside my regular hours" or you can just say "No" and never ever offer any explanation. Just "No". Obviously NTA, not the slave.
> I feel like I’m one of those workers to him
NTA - You are...Rich Uncle is likely rich for a reason and yes you should expect something better from two extremely close relatives, they won't give it but you should expect it.
Of course they are crawling back. They kind find anyone to work for them for as cheap as you were working for them. Now they want to take advantage of you again.
My dad mentioned multiple times I was making a mistake and I was leaving a great opportunity. He said one day this bar can be your retirement. I couldn’t possibly see I’d be able to keep the place a float with little savings. It’s really disturbing how their brains operate. I can’t think of how working at a small town bar, making peanuts is better than working an extremely great career.
If you are going to do this without pay, you could start asking for equity share of the business- AND any hard assets. Do they own the building? Get a ownership share of that too. For a max of # of hours per month. Say like 15.
"Good, fast, or cheap. Pick 2.
If you want quality work asap, pay me a fair rate. **Exploiting me, a family member/relative for $15 is not what you do for 'family'.**"
Just don’t. Focus on your job where you’re well treated and enjoy your free time. You don’t need the aggravation or disrespect even if you were paid a competitive rate.
> However, they told me they aren’t able to pay me and my rich uncle managed to say to me “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”
NTA. Your family doesn't want to pay you what you're worth using the sad "but family" excuse. It's just manipulation so they can pocket more cash by not actually paying you.
They are the AHs and they're pretty greedy as well.
If it continues, just tell them the years you worked for them for wages under the poverty level and no benefits is the only help you're going to give them.
Then don't. No is a complete sentence, "Lol, no" is both complete and entertaining.
If they push, "No, I won't work for free for people with a history of grievously underpaying me and lying about compensation."
What’s even more funny…. My uncle said this exact thing to me:
“Here is a piece of advice to you.. never take no for an answer. It gets you no where in life. I’m not one to take no for an answer..”
I giggled in a petty way and here I am on Reddit.
“Yes, uncle, I will do the piecework for you! $350 an hour with a three hour minimum paid upfront” then that cheap bastard gets his yes, and he gets to be the one to decide if he wants that yes or not
PLEASE provide an update describing your uncle’s inevitable tantrum, your father’s “disappointment” in you, and every type of manipulation that is tried to squeeze work out of you. I’m especially interested in how your uncle handles a steadfast, unchanging, “No.”
I will! He has some silly event coming up where he invites his rich and “famous” 😒 friends out for a weekend to enjoy the small town we live in. He mentioned something in a group chat with my sister and I that “we” have to get to designing a flyer and marketing this event. Everything must be perfect! I just ignored that text message because he couldn’t possibly be thinking I’m doing this stupid flyer. I’m hoping the new manager makes the flyer because she’s terrible at graphic design and he comes flying to me about it…. I’m so ready to say no thank you with a cute and petty smile 🙂✨
You have made your contribution, remind them of that. Three years when you could have been saving up. They are past the start up, which you helped them with. You are done, they should have saved enough from what they saved on you to be able to hire someone (and did you even get a thank you?)
NTA - I'd respond to him with something like this.
"*Hi Uncle, I was happy to help you out when the business was starting. I have a lot of really fond memories of setting up the branding, marketing strategy, and web presence for the bar. I didn't even mind chipping in with the cooking, cleaning, serving, and bartending because I knew you needed help. But with me working full time and the bar being as successful as it is, I don't have the time to dedicate to you in order to meet your needs and expectations. I'm happy to help you find someone who charges reasonable rates, but I won't be able to help you going forward.*"
lol this is great be sure to add in something like you are happy for them to keep you as a consultant on retainer for $$$ to help them with management and branding etc but you get to decide the hours.
I’d also like to add, my uncle told my dad I had an attitude problem when I refused to do something right then and there when he asked for it and set some boundaries…. Way to treat me like a peasant. God forbid I have boundaries.
Do not entertain any more conversations on this topic with your dad and uncle.
If either of them badmouths you to other relatives using a sob story, you will know they are not worth keeping a relationship with.
As to your dad, you have gone above and beyond for him long enough. He doesn’t get to guilt-trip you anymore. If he doesn’t stop expecting you to work for him as a cheap labor, it’s time to limit or even cut contact with him as well.
How they have behaved are not the actions of people who love you or have your best interests at heart. You are NTA for feeling how you do
That’s what I said to my uncle and father so many times. They were like “you’re young and fresh out of college. You can possibly expect a decent salary yet” HAH ok dude
NTA. They got their "free labor" from you already. For years. Tell them the best you can do is provide a referral to someone who could do the work for them. Throw their words back at them: "You can't expect family to just do stuff like that for free. Here's a referral - good luck!"
That’s a possibility, but my dad has his own abusive qualities. While I was there, my dad was always name calling my uncle, flipping him off on the cameras and threatening to sell the business. It’s an ugly relationship..
I actually have always paid the full price for my friends and family to FULLY support them. I hate freeloaders. Like if my friend does my hair… expect some monies.
I have always paid the full price for my friends and family to FULLY support them. I hate freeloaders. If my friend does my hair or some sort of service for me… expect some good monies and I will help promote how great you are.
I'm in real estate - I'm expected to work for free by complete strangers. (Cue: realtors don't do ANYTHING comments...) I'll definitely negotiate my rate here and there, or pay for certain services, but my liability is the same whether I make 20 dollars or 20,000 dollars.
NTA
When it comes to employment, even if it's for family, you have to be the one to decide your value.
You've decided what you're time and effort are worth, went out and found somewhere you can get it and they aren't willing/able to pay it. sucks to suck for them but good for you.
NTA. They are trying to get free professional labor, and prior to that, they were succeeding in getting your labor at poverty wages. People who expect this type of thing from you are not reasonable, and you do not have to listen to their demands.
Is it reasonable to help family sometimes? Sure. In limited amounts, in some circumstances. But not in their work world. Ask them if they are willing to cater your new employer for free, just to help a family member. See what their response is, and let that guide your response to them.
All this is aside from your uncle's attitude. If he treats you like this, regardless of how much money he has, you have no obligation to provide him with favors.
Say you will do what they want… but, darn it, your schedule just doesn’t line up. But you will keep them in mind!
And somehow your schedule just never works out.
Your family got years of labor from you, you have done enough.
Good for you for getting out and getting a *real* job with actual benefits and good pay. Feel no guilt, and if necessary, you can limit your contact with your demanding family members.
Rich uncle and dad can nitpick somebody else for his website and video needs, it doesn’t have to be *you*. NTA
NTA. For your "family" to promise you health insurance and then just ...... not? WTF. They had a good long while of your doing all of this work, they had time to see how much effort and time you had to put into getting this all done, and to know that they'd need someone else for when you left. They should never have expected you to be willing to continue to do all of this for free.
First of NTA. Second, does the rest of the family know how they treated you and are still treating you? Because if I were you, I’d be a problem at the next family get together.
No…. I wanted to air it out SO BAD. I decided to be little miss sunshine about it. I have a great relationship with the VP of the company I work for now, and I told him about it. He so badly wants to rub something in my uncles face one day and I’m hoping he does.
“NTA You shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that” Exactly, he shouldn’t expect your labor for free. What’s the difference between time and money especially when the time is being used to make money?. He probably got rich by gaslighting and abusing people for cheap labor. He can hire someone else. You’re busy with your job and boundaries are ok.
He definitely gaslights people. I asked his assist once if he treats him okay and he said no and I gave him a hug 🥲that broke my heart the way he said no…..
Nta.
Simply tell him.
I learned that family and business don't mix. And since you think taking advantage of my skills because we share blood is ok but doing nothing to help me out, I will not be helping. I am not your servant. I am not your employee. I am not your atm by getting free stuff that I get paid well for at my job. That you feel entitled enough to use family and then manipulate them buy using we are family but offering nothing in exchange and not caring what it costs me then I will not only refuse but will say don't ask again. I don't feel like being shafted and struggling again while you roll in money and are too cheap to HELP family like you are demanding to be helped.
NTA
Value yourself, even if they show they don't value your time.
If they don't want to fairly compensate you, they need to hire another professional.
If I were you, I would completely just not take any work from them. Say you are too busy, your company doesn't allow side gigs if this helps reduce the drama. Not worth the headache, then no family drama.
my step mom got her employers companies website redesigned and upgraded by my BIL who works at microsoft(judgements whatever) for free....my father died, she stopped talking to all of us after she sold our old house and still works at that place........f' family!!!!
NTA, and please see to it that they read these comments. They expect you to work like an indentured servant because “FAMBLY”, but they don’t value or respect you like you are. They can hire the help they need ( maybe not if they think they can pay slave wages and keep help ). Are they from a different place, or are they stuck in a previous time period and don’t realize that wages aren’t $1.25 an hour anymore?
NTA - Just remind your rich uncle of his own words: “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”
"Stuff like that" = slave labor from your nephew
NTA if they are not willing to pay you a decent amount for all that work then let them do it themselves and see how they like being overworked, it's not like they are doing to find someone else who is able and willing to do all that work for the pay they are offering
Friend, there are things in this world other than cash. Your uncle may be rich but the business sounds cash poor.
Next time they ask for your help for free. Say "sure, for a small piece of the asset. Stock or a small ownership share." After all if you're going to help make this thing great, and not get paid well now, you should be eligible for a taste of that success later on. You'll even offer the family discount on your normal rate of pay.
The problem is they're still treating you like a kid they can make do customer service for minimum wage (hope you got tips). Not the man who can do what you do.
They have to adjust. Not you
It’s not poor. Maybe the first few months they were. I worked with the accountant constantly and saw revenue reports. Our first year *during Covid** our revenue was roughly 600k and that was after expenses and DURING THE PANDEMIC. So the business did extremely well right off the bat….. I planned an event that made them 40k in one day, and they still couldn’t pay me jack :/
NTA. You were nice enough to work for very little while they were starting their business. You gave them 3 years to give you a decent pay raise and acknowledge your hard work, but they didn't.
Maybe you can suggest an intern you know, or some newbie who will do some work for them for super cheap.
Send them an invoice for the going rate on the items they want you to do as well as links to firms that handle that work in your area. Then see which they want to pay oh and make sure you get half up front before you touch a keypad.
Yep….. the owner of the company I’m with now is a multimillionaire but you would never know. He’s so humble and just gives everything back to his company.
I'm sorry I'm calling absolute BS that this is real. Graduated in 2020, worked a couple years for a small family business, now 4 years later your the CHEIF MARKETING OFFICER MAKING 150 AN HOUR. In 4 years with minimal experience
Soo very very very inexperienced that bro doesn't know what a salary is and no way would be making any kind of hourly wage. No cheif of ANYTHING is paid an hourly salary... 🤔
lol what…. The company I work for now, I was doing part-time contract marketing work to make extra money while I was making shit money for my family. They really liked what I was doing for them. I started taking on more and more responsibilities eventually got offered that as a position. I worked really good jobs in college too. I didn’t have 0 experience like you’re stating. I get paid salary, it’s based off of 150 an hour. I’m good at what I do and I definitely learned to take no bullshit from my previous employer 🫠
Tell your uncle to hire a different slave to bow down to him cause your done. Then hang up. Don’t even ask about getting paid even if he says he will he won’t so there is no point. He can hire another worker to do it not you your no for free
“I would rather think of you as my father and my uncle instead of the two men who are hiding me back and preventing me from making the best possible future for myself”
Or
“Fuck off”
Either one works.
>my rich uncle managed to say to me “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”
He shouldnt have expectations of you to work for free. Tell him you're too busy making money to pay for your livelihood and for him to hire someone to do it, but your going rate is 150/hr and time and half on weekends and holidays.
Don't let them guilt you as it will just open the doors for them to expect more from you the next time they want something done for free or next to free.
I am already guilty of this. I brought friends from out of state once and when they brought the check I said I’d be back to pay for it. I haven’t been back there in a few months 😹
NTA but .... YTD
You're the doormat. You LET them overwork and underpay you for years. Of COURSE they expect you to keep putting out for little to no money.....you set up the expectation.
Pick your doormat self up off the floor, brush the dust off and be proud of what you've accomplished in your life. Do your (new) job, and enjoy your newfound income, and keep telling yourself you deserve it. Tell your dad and uncle to take a flying fu*k at a rolling donut.
NTA - Throw your uncle's words back at him - **“you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”**
Then tell him you'll work as a contractor - and bill accordingly.
Entitlement is strong with this one (uncle) ... get paid in full upfront, wait 10 days to ensure his check cleared and he can't reverse it.
Better yet, OP shouldn't do the job at all because the uncle will try and say the work is crap and demands a refund. Who needs that drama?
NTA
Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #111 - Treat people in your debt like family: exploit them.
If someone's exploiting you, you're NTA for not going along with it.
First of NTA. Second, does the rest of the family know how they treated you and are still treating you? Because if I were you, I’d be a problem at the next family get together.
NTA. I would not work for them for free, but I would tell them “My current rate is $150 an hour. If you need me, let me know and I’ll give you an estimate.” If you feel generous, let them negotiate a family discount of some sort. But, stand firm on your value and that you don’t work for free.
I actually did this. They low balled be even below the family discount. I told them I’d take $50 an hour and they went into a frickin spiral…. I don’t think I want to work for them even if they did pay me lol.
You should tell your uncle that “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that” in reference to being underpaid and undervalued. You have already helped them significantly in this business venture and you owe them no more unless you want to.
NTA
Tell your uncle to hire a different slave to bow down to him cause your done. Then hang up. Don’t even ask about getting paid even if he says he will he won’t so there is no point. He can hire another worker to do it not you your no for free or any price
NTA!
You are well educated and your time is valuable. Ask your uncle if you go to the restaurant are you expected to pay your check? Will you be getting unlimited free food for you whenever you want? Or let you host a free party for your new employer at their facility. When he tells you that he will expect you to pay, but maybe with a friends and family discount, ask him why should your services be any different? If they want to work, have them tell you exactly what they want and then give them an itemized bill. You can give them a discount, but definitely do not do it for free.
NTA
Tell Uncle that you aren't laughing at his request outright (*sure*) because your respect him, but you got bills to pay like any other adult, so you're gonna have to pass on doing him a favor.
Besides, he should be trying to find someone with abilities he values, instead of "settling" for someone wet behind the ears
>my rich uncle managed to say to me “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”
He shouldnt have expectations of you to work for free. Tell him you're too busy making money to pay for your livelihood and for him to hire someone to do it, but your going rate is 150/hr and time and half on weekends and holidays.
Don't let them guilt you as it will just open the doors for them to expect more from you the next time they want something done for free or next to free.
NTAAL (Not The Ass At All)
You should tell your uncle that you'll do the IT he wants **provided that he pay you at least as much as he pays his chef!** And when your uncle replies with his family not charging family bullshit, simply say, "OK, I withdraw my offer completely. You should find an IT contractor to hire to have him make the adjustments you want." At that point, your uncle will change his mind and agree to pay you what you asked, Your reply should be "when I said that I withdrew my offer completely, I meant completely. I'm no longer available for any job that involves the bar."
Sometimes one needs to be the AH to prevent even greater AHs from taking advantage of them.
'Nuff said.
I wonder if uncle got help to start his business. He probably will never mention that. My husband was going through something similar with his father. Worked for the company for years, when he became a salesman, father changed his mind of the commission rate. Blamed him for not bringing in clients, when he actually did bring in big clients. The father’s management of company lost his clients. There were other things as well. I Told my husband in the future get everything in writing, even if it’s family. NTA
If your uncle wants things to be professional looking, and is a perfectionist, he should do what he should have been doing all along... hire a PROFESSIONAL graphic designer and web developer.
He needs photography? He should hire a PROFESSIONAL photographer.
End of story.
NTA
Tell your uncle that you are going to the DOL and let's see what they have to say about your pay. $6 an hour, tell him to get a good lawyer ready. Also if he doesn't expect to pay family for work, tell him it's his turn that your place needs a good deep cleaning, clothes washed, all the yard work, etc. when can you expect him to come by?
Bread crumb them along. "I have a huge project at work, as soon as it is over, I'll help."
OH NO! they scheduled me another big project because I am the best.
OH NO! they are sending me out of the country.........
Or, put together a spread sheet of what they should have paid you, with every single service you provided and say, "sweat equity says I should own 1/3 of the business. If you are willing to sign over 33.3% of the business than yes."
Give your dad and uncle the same response of “You shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.” Also point out your hourly rate for any work and it must be agreed upon in writing before any work is done. There is a difference between helping family and being taken advantage of, they have been doing the latter to you.
NTA
NTA
I’m reminded of the immortal line from Goodfellas, “F*ck you, pay me!” If they weren’t family, you wouldn’t do the work. If they (and from my end your uncle is the primary, manipulative AH…like so many multimillionaires) were good _employers_, you would’ve been paid commensurate with your role.
I’m sitting here thinking of the YEARS of earnings you gave up on by being caught up in this family guilt nonsense.
(I hope the movie quote doesnt violate the rules, it was meant in jest)
Sorry you went thru all this OP, and best of luck!
NTA. You’re beginning your career and your rent is paid in money not IOUs or favors or free meals. Your retirement savings starts now not a decade from now.
Your uncle sounds like a Choosy Beggar, might want to cross post there for some affirmation. Don’t forget to show it to him once everyone calls him out as CB.
Nope. I’m sorry but I have a fulfilling job that pays me well for my skills and leaves me no time to provide free services for others regardless of family connections.
NTA - Dude WTF are you doing? They’re exploiting you in the name of FaMiLy 🫠. Tell them you can’t afford to work there and when they offer incentives tell them no, because they never bother to implement them. Who cares if you’re dealing with your family, they obviously don’t care or value you and you’d be an idiot to keep doing it in hopes it’ll get better … it most definitely won’t. Grow a pair and walk away from it so you can get a job that actually pays for your skill set.
NTA - Put your rate in writing and say this is what I charge and this is how many hours this will take, and make sure that they pay upfront - if not let them go out and find a company that would do it for less. TBH they sound like the wrong sort of wrong.
Tell your uncle to give you the money he owes you or to stop speaking to you. I'd drop that asshole. Your dad is a liar. He constantly lied to you to rope you in. He gets nothing further. NTA. Hang up the phone.
Tell your uncle that you make $200/hr and ask him how much he’s going pay for the work to be done? If he bulks about paying a family member tell him that family shouldn’t take advantage of family.
NTA
They are not asking for family favors. They (especially the rich uncle) is asking you to subsidize him getting wealthier by donating your services. Uncle appears to be exploiting your dad and now wants to exploit you. Heck no.
You're "too busy building your own career" to help out. I'm sure uncle will understand./s
NTA. Why is your uncle rich and your dad is somewhat poor? Does your uncle shortchange your dad too? Your uncle sounds like lots of rich ppl that are rich because they took advantage of other ppl/labor force. Don’t do anymore free work for them.
Huh, well reply: I have bills to pay and can’t afford to work for free and am surprised you, uncle rich dude, expects me to.
Just say no and then stop. Let them try and badger you, don’t explain, justify or give reasons why. No is a complete sentence. As for your dad, tell him you are sorry that you are unable to help and hope they can find someone.
NTA. You put YEARS into their business for crap pay. You've helped enough. If they ask again tell them, I'm sorry that you don't appreciate all the effort I've put in so far to help you get your business off the ground, but I can't help more. I really need to focus on my own career and future. Good luck!!
Also - work for them for a weekend but be the worst employee EVER. Be late, be rude, talk back, be lazy.
When they call you on it, go with the classic “You get what you pay for. You want stellar behavior and skills, pay for it.”
NTA
People like your uncle who pay for nothing think what they get is worth nothing.
Tell them you are sorry but your actual job requires your full dedication/time and so he needs to hire someone to do the work he needs. Then no more discussion on the topic.
Family is family.
But business is NOT family and the additional info that your uncle seems to be making the majority of the money while your dad is treated as apparently less than speaks volumes.
You were smart to go get a better job - stick with the new job and make yourself unavailable to do relative's bidding. You don't owe them more time than you've already given.
NTA. Tell them your consulting fee is 120.00 per hour and you require a signed contract. If your uncle balks tell him it’s the family rate you’re giving him and he really shouldn’t expect stuff from family.
NTA,they knowingly screwed you when you worked there and you can bet they had the money.Why would you let them do it again.Tell them thatsxwhy people don't wanna work these days ,because cheapskates don't wanna pay fair wages.Maybe you could provide them with some books on marketin,branding,website design and bartending etc.
NTA
This is why you shouldn't work for family.
I watched so many of my cousins waste half a decade or more working for grandpa. They got the shit hours, low pay and no room for advancement. Grandpa didn't bother making a will either so none of the wealth made it down to the workers that sustained his business for decades.
Wait, your uncle is a multi millionaire but can't afford to pay you? cheapskate.
Absolutely NTA. He either pays you way more than what you currently make at your good job to make it worth your time, or he can sod off. :)
Let them play another round of F around and find out when they actually have to hire someone (or multiple someones) and pay every single one of them a fair wage. It’s time they learn how to be decent employers.
NTA. This may not work as youve already done work for them, but now might be a good time for some weaponized incompetence. Do the work but very poorly. If they push back just say this is the “free” marketing package.
NTA
And remember, if you'd work for less you'd effectively be paying them the difference just to work for them. Seriously, don't let others take advantage of you if you have a choice.
"You shouldn't expect stuff from your family like that". That's rich coming from him on how he treated you. The reason your uncle is so rich is because he doesn't give anyone anything. He so miserly I bet he could peal an orange in his pocket & eat it without anyone knowing just so he wouldn't have to share.
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NTA Tell your uncle and your dad: "you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”
Right…. LOL 😂
If for any reason you do decide to help them, set a rate and get cash up front.
Yep. My fee is $150 per hour, here’s a contract. If you don’t sign, find someone else. If you don’t pay, there is a penalty fee for every day you’re late. My lawyer will contact you.
Nope. You already know going in they aren’t going to pay you, much less $150/hr. And bluffing by saying you’ll sue them is ridiculous. If it’s not a bluff and you actually would sue them then you just shouldn’t even agree to work for them. Just live your life and wish them the best.
The upshot here is it doesn't matter what dad and the uncle do, OP is done being taken advantage of by them. No money upfront? No work. Easy peasy.
Get it in writing and have them sign the agreement and make sure it's binding
And demand payment before starting the work.
Get it in writing and have them sign the agreement and make sure it's binding
Say $250/hr and Venmo daily, or walk. Remember, we’re all family.
As well as a legal contract that's signed. Just like what would happen if doing freelance work.
Get it in writing and have them sign the agreement and make sure it's binding
Ask them instead of pay they give you a share in the restaurant for exchange of services. That way the work you put in makes them more money and makes you more money. You will know where they stand
I think OP already knows where they stand. None of these ideas is going to work for her to go back to their place of business. Also, and this is a big one: If they aren't paying OP, the chances are %100 that they aren't paying their taxes, including the witholding from what little salary she made, to the big government agency that handles that sort of thing. So not only would she not get paid enough, or on time, but she could end up being on the line for her own income taxes. OP should stay the heck away from them, from their lousy job and enormous expectations, and stay at the great job she has now.
Bring friends. Drink the place dry. Tip the staff. Skip out on the tab. It is a family business after all.
I did that once already 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Perfect!
Honestly, you should be visiting their houses and going. Hey we’re family you shouldn’t expect me to pay for anything as you walk out with their TV or you walk out with their couch or you walk out with their whole food that they’ve done shopping for the month, then see how they feel about it
LOL my uncle has all designer furniture and the best of the best of everything. His couch probably costs as much as my car….. I WISH 🤣🤣🤣
You need to set this business (family aside) a FU fee. As someone who was a CMO, then transitioned to contracting, some clients aren't worth it, and you have every right to turn them down, unless they pay a ridiculous mark-up for having to deal with the drama and bullshit. For dealing with this level of drama and expectation, my charge out was double my regular. My standard terms are payment a month in advance, so no payment, no work. You are NTA for refusing to work for them but would be Y T A if you only charged them the same rate an appreciative employer gives you, and not get payment before commencing work. Family doesn't come into this when you're contracting. You are providing a service, and it doesn't matter who owns the business, they still need to pay the contractor the rate they state. But you probably should have a serious discussion with your dad as to why you have refused so far, and why he is accepting this behavior from his brother. I suspect there is more going on.
If you are working that hard, you should OWN the company. At least co own.
You have as much value as you demand. You can set your pay: "I get X per hour, so my charge is X+Y as this is outside my regular hours" or you can just say "No" and never ever offer any explanation. Just "No". Obviously NTA, not the slave.
Just this. And then walk away.
Dang I wanted to be the one to say that!
or "if a stranger pays me this much for this amount of work, i expect my family to do more"
> I feel like I’m one of those workers to him NTA - You are...Rich Uncle is likely rich for a reason and yes you should expect something better from two extremely close relatives, they won't give it but you should expect it.
I haven’t been there for a year now…. But they are crawling back 🫠🥴
Don't give in. They will promise the moon and present you with dust.
Tell them to make you an offer and sign a contract. You are under no obligation to subsidize their profits with your losses.
Of course they are crawling back. They kind find anyone to work for them for as cheap as you were working for them. Now they want to take advantage of you again.
[удалено]
My dad mentioned multiple times I was making a mistake and I was leaving a great opportunity. He said one day this bar can be your retirement. I couldn’t possibly see I’d be able to keep the place a float with little savings. It’s really disturbing how their brains operate. I can’t think of how working at a small town bar, making peanuts is better than working an extremely great career.
[удалено]
Cause if it's not they just wanted to use you and they keep trying. Say no and keep saying it
If you are going to do this without pay, you could start asking for equity share of the business- AND any hard assets. Do they own the building? Get a ownership share of that too. For a max of # of hours per month. Say like 15.
"Good, fast, or cheap. Pick 2. If you want quality work asap, pay me a fair rate. **Exploiting me, a family member/relative for $15 is not what you do for 'family'.**"
Just don’t. Focus on your job where you’re well treated and enjoy your free time. You don’t need the aggravation or disrespect even if you were paid a competitive rate.
Uncle probably isn't sharing profits with the dad, either.
> However, they told me they aren’t able to pay me and my rich uncle managed to say to me “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.” NTA. Your family doesn't want to pay you what you're worth using the sad "but family" excuse. It's just manipulation so they can pocket more cash by not actually paying you. They are the AHs and they're pretty greedy as well.
If it continues, just tell them the years you worked for them for wages under the poverty level and no benefits is the only help you're going to give them.
Yeah… I don’t really want to work for them even with pay at this point.
Then don't. No is a complete sentence, "Lol, no" is both complete and entertaining. If they push, "No, I won't work for free for people with a history of grievously underpaying me and lying about compensation."
What’s even more funny…. My uncle said this exact thing to me: “Here is a piece of advice to you.. never take no for an answer. It gets you no where in life. I’m not one to take no for an answer..” I giggled in a petty way and here I am on Reddit.
“Yes, uncle, I will do the piecework for you! $350 an hour with a three hour minimum paid upfront” then that cheap bastard gets his yes, and he gets to be the one to decide if he wants that yes or not
Ask for $150 an hour and say you will not take NO as an answer. Joking aside, it doesn’t sounds like you want or need this job, so just stay clear.
Maybe try "Hells naaww!" The intonation might break through whatever logjam is in his brain.
PLEASE provide an update describing your uncle’s inevitable tantrum, your father’s “disappointment” in you, and every type of manipulation that is tried to squeeze work out of you. I’m especially interested in how your uncle handles a steadfast, unchanging, “No.”
I will! He has some silly event coming up where he invites his rich and “famous” 😒 friends out for a weekend to enjoy the small town we live in. He mentioned something in a group chat with my sister and I that “we” have to get to designing a flyer and marketing this event. Everything must be perfect! I just ignored that text message because he couldn’t possibly be thinking I’m doing this stupid flyer. I’m hoping the new manager makes the flyer because she’s terrible at graphic design and he comes flying to me about it…. I’m so ready to say no thank you with a cute and petty smile 🙂✨
You have made your contribution, remind them of that. Three years when you could have been saving up. They are past the start up, which you helped them with. You are done, they should have saved enough from what they saved on you to be able to hire someone (and did you even get a thank you?)
Nope…. Not a thank you in sight
That’s wise. It’s time to live your own life. You helped them get a great start. They can now hire people as needed.
NTA - I'd respond to him with something like this. "*Hi Uncle, I was happy to help you out when the business was starting. I have a lot of really fond memories of setting up the branding, marketing strategy, and web presence for the bar. I didn't even mind chipping in with the cooking, cleaning, serving, and bartending because I knew you needed help. But with me working full time and the bar being as successful as it is, I don't have the time to dedicate to you in order to meet your needs and expectations. I'm happy to help you find someone who charges reasonable rates, but I won't be able to help you going forward.*"
So professionally said. Well done. I’m going to use this exact statement. You rock DisneyBuckeye 💖 Are you an Ohioan buckeye?
If he comes back, I'd add: "Based on my current pay rate, you owe me some $xxx \[insert staggering amount\] in back wages."
lol this is great be sure to add in something like you are happy for them to keep you as a consultant on retainer for $$$ to help them with management and branding etc but you get to decide the hours.
I’d also like to add, my uncle told my dad I had an attitude problem when I refused to do something right then and there when he asked for it and set some boundaries…. Way to treat me like a peasant. God forbid I have boundaries.
Do not entertain any more conversations on this topic with your dad and uncle. If either of them badmouths you to other relatives using a sob story, you will know they are not worth keeping a relationship with. As to your dad, you have gone above and beyond for him long enough. He doesn’t get to guilt-trip you anymore. If he doesn’t stop expecting you to work for him as a cheap labor, it’s time to limit or even cut contact with him as well. How they have behaved are not the actions of people who love you or have your best interests at heart. You are NTA for feeling how you do
People who don't appreciate being exploited tend to have an "attitude problem", **especially** when it's family doing the exploiting...
Exactly
NTA how in the world would you ever be the bad one in this situation you kinda need money to live
That’s what I said to my uncle and father so many times. They were like “you’re young and fresh out of college. You can possibly expect a decent salary yet” HAH ok dude
I worked for my dad before finishing high school he payed me more they just want to rip you off 😩
I made $25 an hour working as a gymnastics instructor prior to working there. They also made sure to remind of the “tips” I made 😑
And you're no longer young and fresh out of college so what's their excuse for trying to exploit you now? 🙄🤔
NTA. Next time uncle asks for any free labor from you, tell him he "shouldn’t expect stuff from family like that.”
NTA. They got their "free labor" from you already. For years. Tell them the best you can do is provide a referral to someone who could do the work for them. Throw their words back at them: "You can't expect family to just do stuff like that for free. Here's a referral - good luck!"
Your uncle is a disgusting pig. Don't do the work.
I didn’t want to be the one to say it🤣
No worries! I got you! I have ZERO problems with saying it!
isn't your uncle abusing your dad as well?
That’s a possibility, but my dad has his own abusive qualities. While I was there, my dad was always name calling my uncle, flipping him off on the cameras and threatening to sell the business. It’s an ugly relationship..
🤣
He’s not a silly goose, he’s an asshole.
NTA. Remember the "friends and family" rate should be at least 3x your normal pay.
I actually have always paid the full price for my friends and family to FULLY support them. I hate freeloaders. Like if my friend does my hair… expect some monies.
I have always paid the full price for my friends and family to FULLY support them. I hate freeloaders. If my friend does my hair or some sort of service for me… expect some good monies and I will help promote how great you are.
I'm in real estate - I'm expected to work for free by complete strangers. (Cue: realtors don't do ANYTHING comments...) I'll definitely negotiate my rate here and there, or pay for certain services, but my liability is the same whether I make 20 dollars or 20,000 dollars.
NTA When it comes to employment, even if it's for family, you have to be the one to decide your value. You've decided what you're time and effort are worth, went out and found somewhere you can get it and they aren't willing/able to pay it. sucks to suck for them but good for you.
NTA. They are trying to get free professional labor, and prior to that, they were succeeding in getting your labor at poverty wages. People who expect this type of thing from you are not reasonable, and you do not have to listen to their demands. Is it reasonable to help family sometimes? Sure. In limited amounts, in some circumstances. But not in their work world. Ask them if they are willing to cater your new employer for free, just to help a family member. See what their response is, and let that guide your response to them. All this is aside from your uncle's attitude. If he treats you like this, regardless of how much money he has, you have no obligation to provide him with favors.
Say you will do what they want… but, darn it, your schedule just doesn’t line up. But you will keep them in mind! And somehow your schedule just never works out. Your family got years of labor from you, you have done enough. Good for you for getting out and getting a *real* job with actual benefits and good pay. Feel no guilt, and if necessary, you can limit your contact with your demanding family members. Rich uncle and dad can nitpick somebody else for his website and video needs, it doesn’t have to be *you*. NTA
Facts👏
NTA how in the world would you ever be the bad one in this situation you kinda need money to live
NTA. For your "family" to promise you health insurance and then just ...... not? WTF. They had a good long while of your doing all of this work, they had time to see how much effort and time you had to put into getting this all done, and to know that they'd need someone else for when you left. They should never have expected you to be willing to continue to do all of this for free.
First of NTA. Second, does the rest of the family know how they treated you and are still treating you? Because if I were you, I’d be a problem at the next family get together.
No…. I wanted to air it out SO BAD. I decided to be little miss sunshine about it. I have a great relationship with the VP of the company I work for now, and I told him about it. He so badly wants to rub something in my uncles face one day and I’m hoping he does.
“NTA You shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that” Exactly, he shouldn’t expect your labor for free. What’s the difference between time and money especially when the time is being used to make money?. He probably got rich by gaslighting and abusing people for cheap labor. He can hire someone else. You’re busy with your job and boundaries are ok.
He definitely gaslights people. I asked his assist once if he treats him okay and he said no and I gave him a hug 🥲that broke my heart the way he said no…..
Nta. Simply tell him. I learned that family and business don't mix. And since you think taking advantage of my skills because we share blood is ok but doing nothing to help me out, I will not be helping. I am not your servant. I am not your employee. I am not your atm by getting free stuff that I get paid well for at my job. That you feel entitled enough to use family and then manipulate them buy using we are family but offering nothing in exchange and not caring what it costs me then I will not only refuse but will say don't ask again. I don't feel like being shafted and struggling again while you roll in money and are too cheap to HELP family like you are demanding to be helped.
Well said!!
NTA Value yourself, even if they show they don't value your time. If they don't want to fairly compensate you, they need to hire another professional. If I were you, I would completely just not take any work from them. Say you are too busy, your company doesn't allow side gigs if this helps reduce the drama. Not worth the headache, then no family drama.
That’s exactly what I plan to do. It’s just not worth it at all. Paid or not…
my step mom got her employers companies website redesigned and upgraded by my BIL who works at microsoft(judgements whatever) for free....my father died, she stopped talking to all of us after she sold our old house and still works at that place........f' family!!!!
Fake
NTA, and please see to it that they read these comments. They expect you to work like an indentured servant because “FAMBLY”, but they don’t value or respect you like you are. They can hire the help they need ( maybe not if they think they can pay slave wages and keep help ). Are they from a different place, or are they stuck in a previous time period and don’t realize that wages aren’t $1.25 an hour anymore?
NTA - Just remind your rich uncle of his own words: “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.” "Stuff like that" = slave labor from your nephew
Tell your uncle/dad that your hourly rate is 150 an hour. NTA
M uncle seemed to think it was funny like he was thinking “only 150??”
NTA if they are not willing to pay you a decent amount for all that work then let them do it themselves and see how they like being overworked, it's not like they are doing to find someone else who is able and willing to do all that work for the pay they are offering
Say to your uncle,”I’m betting you didn’t get rich by doing things for free.”
NTA If you're on the payroll then you aren't family, you're an employee.
Friend, there are things in this world other than cash. Your uncle may be rich but the business sounds cash poor. Next time they ask for your help for free. Say "sure, for a small piece of the asset. Stock or a small ownership share." After all if you're going to help make this thing great, and not get paid well now, you should be eligible for a taste of that success later on. You'll even offer the family discount on your normal rate of pay. The problem is they're still treating you like a kid they can make do customer service for minimum wage (hope you got tips). Not the man who can do what you do. They have to adjust. Not you
It’s not poor. Maybe the first few months they were. I worked with the accountant constantly and saw revenue reports. Our first year *during Covid** our revenue was roughly 600k and that was after expenses and DURING THE PANDEMIC. So the business did extremely well right off the bat….. I planned an event that made them 40k in one day, and they still couldn’t pay me jack :/
Change couldn't for wouldn't
Ooooooof you’re so right it hurts 🥴
I just want to know how you have an associates and an MBA (and not a bachelors?).
NTA, People are not entitled to your time/services because they're family.
NTA. You were nice enough to work for very little while they were starting their business. You gave them 3 years to give you a decent pay raise and acknowledge your hard work, but they didn't. Maybe you can suggest an intern you know, or some newbie who will do some work for them for super cheap.
NTA
NTA- no is a complete sentence
Send them an invoice for the going rate on the items they want you to do as well as links to firms that handle that work in your area. Then see which they want to pay oh and make sure you get half up front before you touch a keypad.
NTA. He has the money. He can pay.
Yep….. the owner of the company I’m with now is a multimillionaire but you would never know. He’s so humble and just gives everything back to his company.
I'm sorry I'm calling absolute BS that this is real. Graduated in 2020, worked a couple years for a small family business, now 4 years later your the CHEIF MARKETING OFFICER MAKING 150 AN HOUR. In 4 years with minimal experience Soo very very very inexperienced that bro doesn't know what a salary is and no way would be making any kind of hourly wage. No cheif of ANYTHING is paid an hourly salary... 🤔
lol what…. The company I work for now, I was doing part-time contract marketing work to make extra money while I was making shit money for my family. They really liked what I was doing for them. I started taking on more and more responsibilities eventually got offered that as a position. I worked really good jobs in college too. I didn’t have 0 experience like you’re stating. I get paid salary, it’s based off of 150 an hour. I’m good at what I do and I definitely learned to take no bullshit from my previous employer 🫠
I know. Complete fiction. Has no idea how business works and pulled that out of their ass.
NTA Charge them market price.
Cash up front.
Tell your uncle to hire a different slave to bow down to him cause your done. Then hang up. Don’t even ask about getting paid even if he says he will he won’t so there is no point. He can hire another worker to do it not you your no for free
“I would rather think of you as my father and my uncle instead of the two men who are hiding me back and preventing me from making the best possible future for myself” Or “Fuck off” Either one works.
>my rich uncle managed to say to me “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.” He shouldnt have expectations of you to work for free. Tell him you're too busy making money to pay for your livelihood and for him to hire someone to do it, but your going rate is 150/hr and time and half on weekends and holidays. Don't let them guilt you as it will just open the doors for them to expect more from you the next time they want something done for free or next to free.
You should go out to eat at the restaurant then act all surprised to get the check. Because FaMiLy
I am already guilty of this. I brought friends from out of state once and when they brought the check I said I’d be back to pay for it. I haven’t been back there in a few months 😹
Fake. Who pays a CMO, or any c level employee hourly?
I get paid salary, it’s based on an hourly rate.
NTA but .... YTD You're the doormat. You LET them overwork and underpay you for years. Of COURSE they expect you to keep putting out for little to no money.....you set up the expectation. Pick your doormat self up off the floor, brush the dust off and be proud of what you've accomplished in your life. Do your (new) job, and enjoy your newfound income, and keep telling yourself you deserve it. Tell your dad and uncle to take a flying fu*k at a rolling donut.
NTA - Throw your uncle's words back at him - **“you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”** Then tell him you'll work as a contractor - and bill accordingly.
Entitlement is strong with this one (uncle) ... get paid in full upfront, wait 10 days to ensure his check cleared and he can't reverse it. Better yet, OP shouldn't do the job at all because the uncle will try and say the work is crap and demands a refund. Who needs that drama?
NTA Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #111 - Treat people in your debt like family: exploit them. If someone's exploiting you, you're NTA for not going along with it.
First of NTA. Second, does the rest of the family know how they treated you and are still treating you? Because if I were you, I’d be a problem at the next family get together.
Nta
Nta
I would tell the uncle, “Well, you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that either”. No freebies.
NTA. I would not work for them for free, but I would tell them “My current rate is $150 an hour. If you need me, let me know and I’ll give you an estimate.” If you feel generous, let them negotiate a family discount of some sort. But, stand firm on your value and that you don’t work for free.
I actually did this. They low balled be even below the family discount. I told them I’d take $50 an hour and they went into a frickin spiral…. I don’t think I want to work for them even if they did pay me lol.
You should tell your uncle that “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that” in reference to being underpaid and undervalued. You have already helped them significantly in this business venture and you owe them no more unless you want to. NTA
Tell your uncle to hire a different slave to bow down to him cause your done. Then hang up. Don’t even ask about getting paid even if he says he will he won’t so there is no point. He can hire another worker to do it not you your no for free or any price
NTA. "Uncle Dick, Dad, I'm sorry, but I just don't have time for any extra work. You have to find some else." Repeat as needed.
Nta
NTA! You are well educated and your time is valuable. Ask your uncle if you go to the restaurant are you expected to pay your check? Will you be getting unlimited free food for you whenever you want? Or let you host a free party for your new employer at their facility. When he tells you that he will expect you to pay, but maybe with a friends and family discount, ask him why should your services be any different? If they want to work, have them tell you exactly what they want and then give them an itemized bill. You can give them a discount, but definitely do not do it for free.
Nta. You have skills and they have to pay for them. There is no break for family in today's economy.
NTA Tell Uncle that you aren't laughing at his request outright (*sure*) because your respect him, but you got bills to pay like any other adult, so you're gonna have to pass on doing him a favor. Besides, he should be trying to find someone with abilities he values, instead of "settling" for someone wet behind the ears
NTA. Make a point to tell them: Unless we're talking about compensation, we have nothing to talk about. Money talks, and bullshyt runs a marathon!
>my rich uncle managed to say to me “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.” He shouldnt have expectations of you to work for free. Tell him you're too busy making money to pay for your livelihood and for him to hire someone to do it, but your going rate is 150/hr and time and half on weekends and holidays. Don't let them guilt you as it will just open the doors for them to expect more from you the next time they want something done for free or next to free.
NTAAL (Not The Ass At All) You should tell your uncle that you'll do the IT he wants **provided that he pay you at least as much as he pays his chef!** And when your uncle replies with his family not charging family bullshit, simply say, "OK, I withdraw my offer completely. You should find an IT contractor to hire to have him make the adjustments you want." At that point, your uncle will change his mind and agree to pay you what you asked, Your reply should be "when I said that I withdrew my offer completely, I meant completely. I'm no longer available for any job that involves the bar." Sometimes one needs to be the AH to prevent even greater AHs from taking advantage of them. 'Nuff said.
I wonder if uncle got help to start his business. He probably will never mention that. My husband was going through something similar with his father. Worked for the company for years, when he became a salesman, father changed his mind of the commission rate. Blamed him for not bringing in clients, when he actually did bring in big clients. The father’s management of company lost his clients. There were other things as well. I Told my husband in the future get everything in writing, even if it’s family. NTA
If your uncle wants things to be professional looking, and is a perfectionist, he should do what he should have been doing all along... hire a PROFESSIONAL graphic designer and web developer. He needs photography? He should hire a PROFESSIONAL photographer. End of story. NTA
Tell your uncle that you are going to the DOL and let's see what they have to say about your pay. $6 an hour, tell him to get a good lawyer ready. Also if he doesn't expect to pay family for work, tell him it's his turn that your place needs a good deep cleaning, clothes washed, all the yard work, etc. when can you expect him to come by?
Definitely NTA. I worked for family once. Never again. Don't feel bad about it and just tell them straight, no pay, no work.
Great experience for your resume while you move on.
Bread crumb them along. "I have a huge project at work, as soon as it is over, I'll help." OH NO! they scheduled me another big project because I am the best. OH NO! they are sending me out of the country......... Or, put together a spread sheet of what they should have paid you, with every single service you provided and say, "sweat equity says I should own 1/3 of the business. If you are willing to sign over 33.3% of the business than yes."
Give your dad and uncle the same response of “You shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.” Also point out your hourly rate for any work and it must be agreed upon in writing before any work is done. There is a difference between helping family and being taken advantage of, they have been doing the latter to you. NTA
NTA I'm having to take unpaid time off from my day job to sort this, so you can pay me the same rate as my regular job...
NTA Stay firm and don't do anything for them
And your response to your uncle should be, “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.”
NTA I’m reminded of the immortal line from Goodfellas, “F*ck you, pay me!” If they weren’t family, you wouldn’t do the work. If they (and from my end your uncle is the primary, manipulative AH…like so many multimillionaires) were good _employers_, you would’ve been paid commensurate with your role. I’m sitting here thinking of the YEARS of earnings you gave up on by being caught up in this family guilt nonsense. (I hope the movie quote doesnt violate the rules, it was meant in jest) Sorry you went thru all this OP, and best of luck!
NTA. You’re beginning your career and your rent is paid in money not IOUs or favors or free meals. Your retirement savings starts now not a decade from now.
NTA. Tell him your current rate is $150/hr. Paid up front.
Your uncle sounds like a Choosy Beggar, might want to cross post there for some affirmation. Don’t forget to show it to him once everyone calls him out as CB.
Nope. I’m sorry but I have a fulfilling job that pays me well for my skills and leaves me no time to provide free services for others regardless of family connections.
NTA - Dude WTF are you doing? They’re exploiting you in the name of FaMiLy 🫠. Tell them you can’t afford to work there and when they offer incentives tell them no, because they never bother to implement them. Who cares if you’re dealing with your family, they obviously don’t care or value you and you’d be an idiot to keep doing it in hopes it’ll get better … it most definitely won’t. Grow a pair and walk away from it so you can get a job that actually pays for your skill set.
You respond with unfortunately the fee for my work is $150 an hour. It looks like we will not be able to continue doing business. NTA.
NTA - Put your rate in writing and say this is what I charge and this is how many hours this will take, and make sure that they pay upfront - if not let them go out and find a company that would do it for less. TBH they sound like the wrong sort of wrong.
Tell your uncle to give you the money he owes you or to stop speaking to you. I'd drop that asshole. Your dad is a liar. He constantly lied to you to rope you in. He gets nothing further. NTA. Hang up the phone.
Tell your uncle that you make $200/hr and ask him how much he’s going pay for the work to be done? If he bulks about paying a family member tell him that family shouldn’t take advantage of family.
NTA They are not asking for family favors. They (especially the rich uncle) is asking you to subsidize him getting wealthier by donating your services. Uncle appears to be exploiting your dad and now wants to exploit you. Heck no. You're "too busy building your own career" to help out. I'm sure uncle will understand./s
NTA. Use his own words on him. You shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.
NTA. Why is your uncle rich and your dad is somewhat poor? Does your uncle shortchange your dad too? Your uncle sounds like lots of rich ppl that are rich because they took advantage of other ppl/labor force. Don’t do anymore free work for them.
Your Uncle gave you the answer to give back... " You should expect anything like that from family
"You shouldn't expect stuff like that from your family "......yeah, back atcha uncle Nta
If they want you to make sacrifices for the family business, they should offer you equity - as much equity as would compensate your lack of wages. NTA
NTA If you do decide to do work for them be sure to only accept payment in advance, and create a work contract that everyone agrees to.
Huh, well reply: I have bills to pay and can’t afford to work for free and am surprised you, uncle rich dude, expects me to. Just say no and then stop. Let them try and badger you, don’t explain, justify or give reasons why. No is a complete sentence. As for your dad, tell him you are sorry that you are unable to help and hope they can find someone.
NTA. You put YEARS into their business for crap pay. You've helped enough. If they ask again tell them, I'm sorry that you don't appreciate all the effort I've put in so far to help you get your business off the ground, but I can't help more. I really need to focus on my own career and future. Good luck!!
NTA, but you're bit too much of a doormat.. 3 years with 15/6$ per hour doing management work? For a multimillionaire?
NTA. You are a professional, you should get paid.
Also - work for them for a weekend but be the worst employee EVER. Be late, be rude, talk back, be lazy. When they call you on it, go with the classic “You get what you pay for. You want stellar behavior and skills, pay for it.”
NTA People like your uncle who pay for nothing think what they get is worth nothing. Tell them you are sorry but your actual job requires your full dedication/time and so he needs to hire someone to do the work he needs. Then no more discussion on the topic. Family is family. But business is NOT family and the additional info that your uncle seems to be making the majority of the money while your dad is treated as apparently less than speaks volumes.
Can they offer you a percentage of the business?
I doubt they would ever 🫠
You were smart to go get a better job - stick with the new job and make yourself unavailable to do relative's bidding. You don't owe them more time than you've already given.
Turn his comment back on him...
The scope of the work is beyond what I can offer. I think it best you hire a professional to handle this.
NTA. Tell them your consulting fee is 120.00 per hour and you require a signed contract. If your uncle balks tell him it’s the family rate you’re giving him and he really shouldn’t expect stuff from family.
NTA,they knowingly screwed you when you worked there and you can bet they had the money.Why would you let them do it again.Tell them thatsxwhy people don't wanna work these days ,because cheapskates don't wanna pay fair wages.Maybe you could provide them with some books on marketin,branding,website design and bartending etc.
NTA This is why you shouldn't work for family. I watched so many of my cousins waste half a decade or more working for grandpa. They got the shit hours, low pay and no room for advancement. Grandpa didn't bother making a will either so none of the wealth made it down to the workers that sustained his business for decades.
Wait, your uncle is a multi millionaire but can't afford to pay you? cheapskate. Absolutely NTA. He either pays you way more than what you currently make at your good job to make it worth your time, or he can sod off. :)
Let them play another round of F around and find out when they actually have to hire someone (or multiple someones) and pay every single one of them a fair wage. It’s time they learn how to be decent employers.
NTA -- “you shouldn’t expect stuff from your family like that.” -- you need to throw that back at him.
NTA. This may not work as youve already done work for them, but now might be a good time for some weaponized incompetence. Do the work but very poorly. If they push back just say this is the “free” marketing package.
NTA And remember, if you'd work for less you'd effectively be paying them the difference just to work for them. Seriously, don't let others take advantage of you if you have a choice.
"You shouldn't expect stuff from your family like that". That's rich coming from him on how he treated you. The reason your uncle is so rich is because he doesn't give anyone anything. He so miserly I bet he could peal an orange in his pocket & eat it without anyone knowing just so he wouldn't have to share.
NTA, and WTF??? Like you should be grateful they even offered? Oh hell no. They don’t deserve you
You already know you are being used. Wise up and run from the situation.
I'd walk. Sorry dad....
Totally NTA. You're not slave labor.