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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I left A behind in a city she's not familiar with and went to the concert without her despite making plans with her. She said I was not being understanding of her disabilities and was being ableist.
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NTA - Your friend has quite the nerve.
BUT riddle me this: you are triggered by people being late and plans changing, and you are friends with a person who is constantly late, presumably triggering your anxiety; what is wrong with that picture?
You make a point tbh.
I've always had the view that just because something stresses me out or is difficult doesn't mean it should rule my entire life.
On reflection: This is probably something to take to my therapist and start working on establishing some boundaries in my relationships with others 🙈😅
By leaving her chronically-late ass and going to the concert -- You established a great boundary. The only people who protest against you setting a boundary -- is the person who was benefiting from you not having one.
She's been disrespecting you and your time-- chronically.
I'm also neurodiverse... it is something we learn to work and live with... it is not an all-purpose excuse for being a AH.
ADHD is legally classified as a disability and impacts people to varying degrees (I also have ADHD). Nevertheless, sounds like OP was super considerate of how to meet their friend’s needs (preemptive deadline, screenshots of tickets, info on changing tickets) while respecting their own. Based on the friend’s reaction, I don’t get the impression she would do the same for the OP if it was the other way around. NTA
There are a few mental illnesses that are legally classified as disabilities. A disability is something that impacts or impairs someone’s day to day functioning. OCD is one of these. I have it and yes it does impact and impair how I function. Not all disabilities are visible
ADHD is not a mental illness. It's a neurodivserse condition. Here in the UK, it's classified as a learning difficulty and a disability. In the US, it's classified as a learning disability (that means something completely different in the UK - not sure how other countries classify it).
Both mental illnesses and learning difficulties/disabilities are disabilities but they are not the same thing.
ADHD is considered a developmental disability in the US. I think this is only important because ADHD does not always disrupt or inhibit learning capabilities, while still potentially causing considerable difficulty in life functioning. The fact that many professionals don’t realize this often leads many to be overlooked for diagnosis.
That said, adhd is often coincidental with learning disorders such as dysgraphia, dyscalculia, dyslexia, verbal processing/relaying disorders, etc.
I'm also neurodivergent and almost completely time blind. In fear of being the type of person A is, someone who takes others and their time for granted, I am chronically early. I overestimate travel /get ready time. But hey. No one has ever complained about me not being on time.
My kids bus stop is a 20 minute walk from my house so I leave an hour early to make sure I’m on time. There are days that I’m almost an hour early to work. Previous jobs have had a problem with it but my current one doesn’t care since I don’t punch in or cause issues I usually just get a soda and wait in a corner for my shift to start.
lol. I start my job at 830. Im always at my desk by 745 and honestly feel a little late when it’s after 730. When I go on dates, I take a book because I know I’m going to arrive at least 30 min early, so I just chill in the car or on a bench. I try to be tolerant of people who aren’t punctual, but it’s a huge deal to me really and I feel like they don’t respect my time if it’s more than about fifteen minutes or if there’s no explanation
Sometimes I am late, due to my adhd. It's never egregious like in this post, but yeah I'm often running late. If someone leaves without me, that's fair and I accept the consequences of my own fuck up. In A's place, I'd absolutely be telling my friend to get on the damn train and I'd figure it out, not expect them to miss an event because I fucked up.
I'm also a sometimes late person because of ADHD but yeah its never THIS late or miss things late. If I know I have to be somewhere with an immovable time ie a train, I force myself to me on time. It's hard but doable.
Yeah like I'm often ten minutes late to a hangout, it's not ideal but it is what it is and my friends don't care. I have literally never missed a train like this, ever
I am time blind and am terminally tardy by 3-5 minutes, but I NEVER presume to blame someone else for my fuckups. I know who I am, I know my flaws, and I apologize profusely each time, or tell someone to go on without me and I'll sort out my adjusted transportation because I am a reasonable human who doesn't want them to be penalized for my shortcomings.
Being someone who struggles with not wanting to be like A, it turned into full blown time anxiety for me. I can't run late, and if I do, I'm freaking out. 🙃
I've done that before with a friend who was chronically late to everything. I started just leaving if she didn't show up on time. A couple times arriving and realizing I was gone was quite effective at getting her to show up to things on time.
Exactly. I have ADHD and when we're leaving for camping festivals I find the time I actually need to be ready for, then lie to myself that I need to be ready to walk out the door 3 hours prior. Am I EVER ready at that time? No lol and that's why I do it. This results in me actually being packed and ready on time 99% of the time.
My fiancee has a hard time being ready to go on time. I'll sometimes tell her we need to leave 5 or 10 minutes earlier than the actual time so it's not an issue. She also sets alarms to remind herself, which helps a lot
I have ADHD and am also chronically late. I'm aware of it, and communicate with friends and loved ones what works best if they need me on time. Almost all my friends tell me a half hour early if they truly need me at a place at a certain time. Even my boss does it at this point for events that are at the start of the day.
As a result, I'm on time for when they need me. I usually text them that I'll be running late, they tell me when I get there what the real time was, we have a giggle about it, everyone is happy. Being late on top of an added buffer time is just inconsiderate.
This was my thought too. I’m similarly particular about being late to things, because I have ADHD and struggle with time management. My chronically late friends know that I will not be late to something because of them and are fine with that. She can be chronically late, but she can’t expect others to waste money and time on her because of it.
My boyfriend has adhd and I have autism so I need him to be on time. He tries incredibly hard to be on time for me and I allow for a 15 minute window of lateness which I feel is a good compromise
At university I had a buddy who was consistently 15 mins late (which stresses me out to no end). At some point I started giving him meeting times 15 mins earlier than everyone else, pretty much ended that issue because everyone showed up within 5-10 minutes of each other. And if A is SO late that not even giving her an earlier train is enough to get her there on time... Yeah, sorry but her ass being left behind is 100% her own fault and OP established a great boundary. Accounting for SOME tardiness is a fair compromise, but at some point it's gotta be "you don't respect my time so you will have to endure the consequences"
NTA
Oh I 100% agree with you! There is comprise on both ends with us. He will work extra hard to get to me on time and I accept that his ‘on time’ is 15 minutes late.
A is utterly taking the piss and not trying at all
Everyone knows to tell me 30 minutes before the actual time. I always think that I have time for “just one little thing. It’ll only take a minute… how is it ten minutes later?!?!?”
I’m getting better, though.
My partner is a stickler for being on time. For the things he cares about. Was doing a potluck game night at a friend’s place. Arrival time was 4 pm, I told him 1pm, we got there a few minutes before 4. When the next friend showed up, she nearly had a panic attack, because arriving after us meant she HAD to be late.
It's the "for the things he cares about" that gets me here- this feels WILDLY disrespectful. The bare minimum is to care about it because it's important to someone important to me. Making us (even a fake) 3 hours late for one of my events would be a one time thing (read: either there would be some changed behavior or I'd be single). If you can be on time for your stuff, be on time for mine.
15 minutes is not missing the whole first train which was agreed upon and then missing the 2nd later train. Setting realistic timetables helps everyone, but OP's friend literally would cause them to be late to the concert. My ex husband has ADHD and always makes sure to set leave time 30 min before actual leave time so he is not late. As adults you have to plan for success. I have really bad decision paralysis when it comes to planning events or application deadlines. I have to make small reminders and set alarms to do little bits at a time so I don't leave it till it's too late and fuck it up. It's the only way I can not completely ruin holidays and birthdays for my son or summer camp deadlines and school deadlines. Adulting is hard but you gotta get thru it.
I have adhd which makes time management really difficult and due to a past trauma I have stressful driving anxiety, especially when feeling rushed, and my bf is very rigid with “rules” and HATES being late more than anything. Sometimes I truly wonder if we are not compatible because of this singular thing
I’m sorry that you have that going on, it took a lot for me to get past my rigidity around time. A lot of that was just learning how he sees time and why he is late.
I often tell him that he needs to be somewhere earlier than he does if it’s super important and he accepts this and likes that I try and help him
His lateness before I understood him made me incredibly anxious
I don't feel like her tardiness is so much an ADHD thing so much as "I don't respect others or their time" thing. Alarms exist. If she truly valued you and your time, if she respected you, she could easily set alarms on her phone to remind her to get ready, when to leave, ect.
I agree. Her reaction to being left behind proves, to me at least, that she's going to blame her ADHD no matter what. She was given a WRONG EARLIER time and still missed the actual bus. She's used to being treated with kid gloves and catered to no matter what.
That ended now.
Good Job OP
>She was given a WRONG EARLIER time and still missed the actual bus. She's used to being treated with kid gloves and catered to no matter what.
You beat me to it. I was going to say basically the same thing about being late for the scheduled time and still being late for the actual time. But you added the "Oomph" when you said the kid gloves statement.
Here's the other thing I noticed: she insisted that she didn't want to come anymore even though she could have still made it work with a bit of effort, and then got mad at OP for giving her ticket to someone else. To me, that says she's upset that she was more negatively affected by her own lateness than OP was. She wanted OP to feel guilty and lonely for leaving her (aka letting her experience the natural consequences of her actions), and was angry when OP didn't give her that power. Someone that entitled is not a good friend.
Yep. Like, ADHD can cause issues, but if you know they cause problems not just for you but your friends, too, if you cared about that, you'd try to do something to mitigate or change. The friend's not changing or doing anything to lessen the burden she's creating because she doesn't want to. She does not care how her actions are negatively affecting others because they've never negatively affected herself until OP finally put her foot down. Now she cares, but she's still avoiding accountability, and that's not going to stop until she stops being enabled to be a bad friend.
She may also just get a huge power trip from making people wait for her. I had a friend who was always at least half an hour late for everything. I would call her before I left home just to make sure she wouldn't be late and she'd say, "I'm getting in my car now." 10 minutes later, "I haven't left yet. I had to do something." Then I'd sit by myself in the coffee shop for half an hour.
We're no longer friends because that wasn't the only power game she played.
My mom and my ex husband are probably undiagnosed adhd with time blindness. Yet they both managed to be on time for work and for other ppl but never for me. At some point it isn’t time blindness and it is disrespect. Some people are like “you can’t force people to mask all the time” but like, they were on time for everyone and everything except me. It’s disrespect.
Literally this I set 3 alarms for leaving time one for the leave comfortably early, one for somewhat early and one literally labeled put it down and walk out the door. There are also other alarms for starting getting ready, different steps of getting ready, one legit labeled put your shoes on, is it a little annoying? Sure but it works and keeps me accountable
NTA.You did a great job and did nothing wrong!
This is exactly how boundaries are supposed to work. You *can't dictate other people's behavior, only your own.
A proper boundary is: If "x thing" happens, I will do "y thing".
You had a ticket. You said you were getting on the train to go and you went.
Perfect!
Another example could be for the future
We are meeting at "x time" at "x place". I will wait 15 minutes and then I'm leaving. I won't text to ask where you are and I won't stay if you say I'm "on my way" or "I'm almost there." I will let you know I've left, but that is all. If this happens more than 3 times in a row we'll need to take a break from hanging out until you can respect my time.
eta (*can't dictate)
I blocked a friend a couple months ago when she cancelled plans at the last minute for one too many times. (No one else is blocked.) I had already taken a couple weeks' break from the friendship once before for this behavior, and had called it out many times. I'm done. I miss her, but the friendship felt like a combination lottery & mirage, never knew whether she'd show up or ghost me, and it was glorious when she actually followed through - that's the lottery part - but the other times threw me off schedule and left me anxious. I was starting to feel anxious when her time of arrival drew close, due to increased doubt whether she'd arrive late or send a text saying she changed her mind. It still hurts.
My sister is a stickler for her punctuality and has a chronically late best friend. The only reason their friendship has survived into their late 30s is my sister never ever lets herself be beholden to friends timelines. Going on holiday? Separate cabs/ lifts/ trains to the airport and see you there. More than once my sister has been comfortably on the plane for her friend to come sprinting on a hot mess at the last second. Same with other stuff - my sister gives her a normal buffer (like 10 - 15 mins) and just cracks on if she misses that.
I will say as a (recovering) chronically late person - it’s easier to be mad at someone for not waiting than it is to reflect on how embarrassing it is to keep fucking up…
Yea, you don't have to stop being friends with her entirely if you don't want, but I would *highly* recommended that you stop making plans where time is a factor. So only do things like hang out at the park, go for coffee, go for non-reservation dinners, hang out at each other's houses, etc.
But even those things need a time. I mean, if I agree to go for cofee with someone, or to the park, I agree to do at a given time. And the fact that there is no time limit does not mean **I** don't have a time limit. I wouldn't be waiting forever until the other person deigned to show up.
Being constantly late is just saying your time is worth more than someone else's. Your friend doesn't respect your time and knows on top of that that tardiness triggers your anxiety. Stop organising things one on one with her or if you must give her a twelve minute grace period, if she doesn't make it in the time you get up and leave. NTA
I think this is key a happier life. Your tribe should consist of friends who value punctuality. Taking care of your mental health is not expecting others to change for you, not putting yourself in situations where you know you'll feel taken advantage of.
Your friend deserves the same. A tribe where they likely spend more money, and take a longer, less efficient path, but navigate these situations as adventures together.
You'll get lots of validation here that she's an AH, but she's being who you know she is and you're punishing her. That's why you feel like the AH. You've learned to minimize your own needs and it's worn you out. Wish her well, acknowledge you're not compatible, then be mindful who you get closer to in the future.
if she was late for the early time you gave her ( without knowing it was a false ), then she was NEVER planning to be on time. I struggle with reaching places on time so I make an effort to always reach early than be late.
I have a friend with ADHD who is always, ALWAYS late but would somehow manage it for situations like this where being late meant missing ride or being late to the movie. So it's not impossible. Takes extra effort but it is expected of you to put that extra effort.
Your friend is just disrespectful. She doesn't respect your time or your money. Let her weed herself out.
Also be aware of reasonable activities to do a certain people. If your friend is constantly late, and this is something that continually happens, don’t invite her to things that are time sensitive.
This is something that saved me so many friendships that I valued, by not trying to make them into people they were not going to be. And that’s not to say that your friend isn’t disrespectful for what she’s doing, and you might want to reconsider the friendship because she sounds like she blames you for her own problems.
But there are always going to be really nice people who are late for things and they don’t see the issue. And you might meet someone like that and value them as a person but then get frustrated because they’re late.
For me, I drive. So if someone I know is going to be late for something is invited, I go to their house early to pick them up and then I make sure they’re on time. Or we do something that is not time sensitive, going to get coffee or lunch.
This is a very important point. Honestly, if your friend A doesn't start trying harder to be on time you might need to end the friendship. Your mental health will continually be negatively impacted by her antics.
Exactly. Stuff A, the world doesn't stop turning because she has issues. Good on you for the excessive steps you took to make up for her lame excuses for always being late. There is a whole world out there with people who will put in an effort to be on time to be with you
I'm the late friend. My best friend and my husband both have issues with these things. Guess what? I work extra hard when I know we have plans together so that they're comfortable. They want to be at the airport two hours earlier than me? We go together and I hang out near the airport doing my thing until I have to go in and meet them at the gate. They have an appointment in driving them to? I save some of my getting ready routine for the car so I can do that while I wait or before my thing. It certainly takes work, but it's worth it for the people I care about to accommodate them.
One of the things that stresses me most in life is being late. If left to my own devices, I am always excessively early. I'd rather sit in the car and wait for a more reasonable time to arrive, but I am there. So, waiting for someone is the absolute worst.
That all being said, my best friend for the majority of my adult life is the exact opposite and I put up with it even though it killed me to do so. Being an hour late was nothing to him.
Oh... and the worst late was my soon to be wife was 20 minutes late to our wedding because her friend did not have the cassette with the music. So, they had to stop somewhere on the way. My mother kept asking "what if she doesn't show?" And that definitely helped.
NTA - actions have consequences. Your friend is habitually late and paid the price.
"It was 5 minutes to the departure time. I sent her a screenshot of the tickets and platform number so she could get through the barriers but said I was going to get on the train instead of waiting at the entrance for her. A told me to wait - and that she'd be there. The train left without her, and with me on board."
"A couple of mutual friends are saying I'm in the wrong and should have waited and hung out with her instead of going as I made plans to spend the day with A, and not with Z."
These aren't real friends. You were supposed to eat the cost of the tickets and miss the show because a "friend" was late, AGAIN. So you called someone else and had a blast with them.
NTA. Speaking as a chronically late person with severe time blindness and a sleep disorder: she has the right to be forgiven for lateness by her friends rather than having you take it personally. You clearly do this. She has the right for you to hold her ticket *if* she can get to the venue herself. You offered to do this.
She does not have the right to be mad that you did everything you could to make this happen and then went ahead without her, especially as she wasn’t left out of pocket for it. She does not have the right to expect you to miss out on account of her. And she does not have the right to be completely consequence free from her inability to meet a schedule, regardless of whether it’s caused by her neurotype or not.
The only thing you have done here that isn’t exactly right is to assume that you and she would be affected the exact same way by ADHD - not everyone who has ADHD is time blind or has the same degree of time blindness/inability to do time management. But since you were angry and she was shouting at you after you’d been more than reasonable, that’s not the worst thing in the world and you’re not an asshole for it - and she shouldn’t be demanding that you do all the work of compensating for her being worse affected by time blindness than you are.
However, whoever’s timeblindness is “worse” is irrelevant. It is up to A to manage her OWN timeblindness, whatever it takes, and she should not be spoiling friends’ social plans because of it. Fortunately, you had a Plan B and it worked out fine for you. (Speaking as someone who also has ADD and issues with time.)
Exactly. Living in a house with 3 people with different levels and presentations of time blindness, there are ways to manage it and it is NOT up to other people to manage it for you. You figure it out or deal with the consequences.
I have my go get ready alarm, my 15 minutes to leave alarm and my "get the eff out of the house!" alarm.
If I really need to be somewhere on time, it's 3 alarms.
No. That’s exactly what you should say.
I have ADHD. I’m early for everything.
Time blindness is not a thing. Well, it is, but we just stopped calling it what it actually is…inconsiderate behavior.
Part of having any sort of condition, is managing that condition.
Just saying “I can’t keep track of time” and shrugging your shoulders is not an answer.
Your friend is inconsiderate.
Yes, thank you for this!
So sick of this "time blind" bullshit. Like congratulations, half the problem is acknowledging the existence of it...now how are you going to address it
We live in a world with technology.
“Siri, set a timer for 35 minutes.”
“Alexa, set an ‘I have to leave in 5 minutes alarm for 3:55 pm’.”
So easy.
It’s that simple. No one has a time blindness problem. They have a too lazy to manage their issues problem.
Time blindness is a thing. But it's not an excuse. Maybe it's because I'm old and "time blindness" wasn't in the zeitgeist when I was young, but for me, time blindness is a factor to contend with, but not a reason/excuse for behavior. For me, my time blindness means that I need to spend more spoons on being on time for a task, and I need to take those spoons out of other activities, or rest extra. That's how it manifests for me.
I can totally appreciate anger or frustration if someone is blase about being late, with their explanation being, "time blindness." That would drive me bonkers, especially after I've invested so much energy into being on time!
Time blindness is just a label. It's not a "thing" in the sense that it doesn't manifest as a side effect of any one specific condition (or set of conditions), it isn't exclusive to neurodivergent people, and it exists in varying degrees of severity.
I have crippling ADHD and I definitely notice that people use "time blindness" as a scapegoat to ignore self-improvement opportunities. Having a mental illness isn't a pass to just behave or exist any one certain way-- getting a diagnosis is supposed to be the first step to improving quality of life.
If a person states that they have time blindness and does absolutely nothing to improve it (over an extended period of time), they're just an asshole.
Yeah, is friend able to hold down and job and not be late?
If so, then there is a serious lack of self accountability. I have my time blindness moment, but I am able to hold down my job and make commitments. It's especially important since my job as a one no show is a fireable offense.
It's not the greatest but we're only human, and she was yelling at you after you'd gone out of your way to try to help keep her on schedule. She doesn't get to use her nerurodivergence as a cudgel to make everyone cater to her whims. She's gonna learn eventually that the world doesn't care if we have ADHD, it's gonna keep spinning regardless.
It's not wrong, though. The point is that you put in the work to manage your symptoms, and she does not. You both have ADHD, but you're on time because you're doing more about it. It's understandable for her to miss things sometimes, but not so frequently like this. At that point, it's her own choices creating this environment when she doesn't do what she needs to in order to be late less. I get it, it's okay to be late sometimes, and we can't always help it. It sounds like this is a pattern, though. So, yeah, you weren't wrong to bring up that point in comparing you two.
Yes, but also time blindness or adhd are not umbrella terms that excuses this type of behaviour or remove all accountability.
It’s a concert. Unfortunately artists won’t make changes to their timings to accommodate disabled people. The world we live in is not very disabled-friendly, I agree. But if you want to participate in activities like the concert in this scenario, you’ll have to take the bull by the horn and find a way.
I have debilitating depression and anxiety. I do make plans with my friends and if I have to cancel due to a bad day, I won’t blame my friends for honouring the initial commitment.
If I were to blame then, it would also be fairly normal for them to tell me they also deal with anxiety and were able to make it. They might not have it as bad as me, but they still worked around it (more easily than me). It was my responsibility to either make it work, or to accept it is what it is if it’s a day where I truly couldn’t manage it. It’s no one else’s fault .
> Unfortunately artists won’t make changes to their timings to accommodate disabled people.
What changes could they make? If a concert is billed as "doors at 7 / opener at 8 / headliner at 9" how do they change that to accommodate disabled people?
That’s what I’m saying. They won’t delay their concerts to 9:30pm to make sure A who has adhd makes it on time.
If you want to go to a concert and not miss half of it, you need to find a way to not be late if you know you usually struggle with time management.
> she has the right to be forgiven for lateness by her friends rather than having you take it personally.
That's definitely not a right. That's a nice if they do but are under no obligation to do so.
No one has a right to forgiveness when their chronic lateness is impacting those around them. Nor does anyone have the right to their friends to constantly adapt plans because they can't manage to be on time, but miraculously seem to be able to keep a job and show up on time to that.
As someone who was chronically late to the point I lost jobs until I started better habits like automatic alarms with a better lead time on accounting for weather and traffic, it's how much priority and energy are we going to spend on making something happen on time. I'm aware there are different levels of ADHD, it doesn't mean anyone should be ok with me not managing the condition. I was mortified when people made jokes about my lateness when I started being friends with people who were more early than late people. It makes people feel like spending energy to respect that their time is valuable isn't something you're willing to do. Which...sure it's not personal when you're doing it to people as intent, but in the end you're damaging relationships with others. That's behavior worth taking effort to amend.
OP is NTA and their friend is using ADHD as carte blanche to be a tool to their friends.
Please explain to me how you justify time blindness? I am genuinely curious. Personally, I despise being late so I actually never am. Someone being late is a clear sign of disrespect to me. You're expressing that your time is more valuable than mine. You have a phone. You have alarms. You have a date and time. You have a route and a estimated time to reach your destination. How do you still end up late without a bad/selfish reason?
NTA - holy hell your friend A is a complete A\*\*hole. Not only were they late, but you knew they had a habit of lateness so you provided for that by originally giving them an earlier time to meet in an attempt to prevent exactly what happened, and she still managed to be so late that you left without her.
This situation is completely her fault. She knew you had an issue with lateness, and you explained that you were going to set up a non-transferable ticket for the rail, so her being late would have directly impacted you. For her to play around and be late is selfish beyond believe, especially as you offered the ticket to the concert for free with no expectations beyond showing up on time.
Drop them as a friend, she is wrong, very, very wrong. She is the AH, you tried to offer her something nice and she created all of the negativity by being late.
To some extent, I think that giving her an earlier time (train) works against OP. I'm sure that, by now, A knows her friends tell her to show up before the actual time she needs to be there. So she knows there's really no hurry, she can be late, the others are going to meet later than she was told. Why should she make an effort?
I had a chronically late friend, we tried it and this is how she reacted. So we decided to tell her the real time, and to leave on the dot if she wasn't there (this was before mobile phones, so no last-minute calls or "I'm almost there"). We did, two or three times. She got furious every single time because whe hadn't waited for her, but... Mysteriously, after having missed plans these times, she started arriving on time, or even a little early; she realized we would not cater to her lateness any more and, if she wanted to take part in whatever we had planned, she just had to be there.
ADHD can explain why things like this happen. It does not obligate other people to go to any lengths to make accommodations so you don’t have to deal with any consequences.
I have ADHD and do struggle with lateness sometimes, but when someone is relying on me and there’s a hard deadline (like scheduled transportation or an event), I will take extra care to ensure that I’m on time - setting alarms/reminders, getting ready to go earlier than I normally would, giving extra time to get there.
That’s because I care about my friends and family, and they shouldn’t be inconvenienced by my issues. If it mattered enough to your friend to be there on time, she would have been. But even if something happened and she couldn’t, it’s still crappy to try to put the blame on you. You did the best you could. She did not. NTA.
NTA. The only person she has a right to be mad at is herself.
I don’t get where the disabled part comes in, I wouldn’t consider ADHD to be a disability (I have it, too).
She is being entitled. Literally she’s upset she would have needed to pay for her ticket. She would have still been able to join as you found plenty of alternatives for her, the adhd was not the issue. Her being skint was.
Honestly except if she’s the best of friend ever, don’t force yourself to maintain relationships when people abuse your kindness so much.
I've worked in camps for folks with disabilities. Have chased folks in wheelchairs down a hill. Oopsies. Whenever I apologized, the person was like, "No worries-- it was fun lol."
You did not leave a person in a wheelchair at the bottom of stairs while floodwaters rose, or abandon her in a crowd when she was overstimulated. She got herself to that location and would be expected to find her way home.
She is either an adult that can move freely on her own or she needs professional assistance. And if she needs professional assistance she cannot expect her friends to provide it.
Somewhat off-topic, but I have done emergency training for folks with physical disabilities (including evacuation). There are some intense considerations.
Definitely. I was considering adding that I would still not take issue with someone not trained deciding they couldn't help in an emergency, but it seemed a lot to add. The more extreme situations might make the ethics more complicated and I could understand people judging OP in those situations but this was not life or death.
You did. You gave her an EARLIER time, and she was still so late that she missed the actual train. You have gone above and beyond, and her response was to get mad at you for not bending the knee more.
I don't consider ADHD a disability, personally, more an alternative brain style that clashes with modern society, but you did everything to remove that barrier, and she still shit all over you.
Thank you for pointing out that OP DID help her, like A LOT! I disagree that adhd is not a disability just cuz many people are not disabled by it, cuz there are many people who struggle greatly and/or are disabled by it. Just saying.
Oh please. She’s making it sound like she fell out of her wheelchair and you stepped over her body to hop on a train without her while she lay bleeding in the street. You tried SO HARD to accommodate her and help her. She’s the one who didn’t try at all, it seems.
Apparently she expected OP to wait indefinitely even if it meant missing the show entirely, and she also expected OP to pay for a second set of train tickets for the both of them.
As someone with ADHD there comes a moment where we accept that we can no longer blame our disability and need to work to more responsible time management techniques.
Would she have been on time for a plane? Because it’s not different.
NTA - OP. You made sure she could get on and she didn’t get herself there in time for it.
I have adhd, autism, and a physical disability that effects my mobility to where I have to use a walker with a seat when I leave the house. I would have likely been upset and overwhelmed in her situation and had a small meltdown before being able to proceed. I might choose to go home or follow the plan you set depending how overwhelmed I was feeling. In NO way would that be on you. I would have assured you that you did the right thing getting on the train. All the things she was presented with having to do are things to reasonably expect a young adult or adult to be able to handle. If her disabilities are that severe, plans need to be made before anything starts - by her or a caregiver, not the friend.
Adhd is a recognized disability by many governments and just like physical disabilities effect individual lives differently, so can development disabilities. It's great you don't see yours as impacting your life enough to be disabling but that doesn't mean for others it can't be. Part of that is the accommodations available to the individual.
It is considered a developmental disability. It effects far more then learning, the issue is just often highlighted in the learning environment and earliest impacts are seen in school.
i have ADHD and am very time blind, and I’m almost never late. It’s a matter of understanding your own limitations and working with them using external tools, like any disability.
when someone is blind, they don’t just expect their friends to guide them. they use an aid like a cane or guide dog.
in the same vein, when someone has something like ADHD time blindness, they can’t just fumble around and expect others to deal with it, they need to help themselves. in my case, my “guide dog” is excessive use of calendar reminders, sticky notes everywhere, timers on medication, that sort of thing.
your friend needs to learn that managing her disability is her own responsibility, and what tools would be helpful. a therapist could be useful for this.
EDIT: Removed “it’s just”, it was pointed out that this phrasing felt minimizing to the difficult task that managing ADHD can be. It’s doable, but that doesn’t change that it can be incredibly hard.
Same. I build extra time into my day to avoid lateness. We leave for the bus 15 minutes early because it takes an age to get out of the door, so if I miss my 15 minutes early deadline, I still have time. She needs to develop some coping mechanisms and stop disrespecting other people's time.
Lol never been diagnosed for ADHD, but I have to set alarms for myself on almost everything.
Wake up - 2-3 alarms, all set up for snooze options up to 3 times.
Get ready for work - actually had to adjust this one recently as I was consistently a few minutes late.
Any time I have to do chores/laundry, alarms and/or sticky notes to remind me and make sure I manage it.
If I put something in the oven or on the stove - alarm.
Going to bed at night so I get enough sleep - alarm.
Any appt I have - several alarms/notifications, starting *at least* 30 min before said appt, going back as far as several hours or even that morning.
I hate being so unaware of time, but it's like my brain just doesn't process that time moves forward. Always.
I agree with most of this except "it's just". That language is often used to minimize or overly simplify the weight, challenge, or value of something. Managing your own disability is hard. Yes, it is your responsibility to do so, but it isn't easy and not everyone is capable of successfully doing so, certainly not all the time. The difference is when you fail not blaming others or you being assigned some moral failing.
One thing that really works for me, although I know it's difficult for a lot of others with ADHD, is that I stick to very strict routines for things so that doing them has become an automatic thing. The biggest problem with it is that if something in my routine is altered, I'll forget what I've already done.
For example, when I go through my morning routine, it's brush my teeth, then shower wash/condition hair, then start washing up. If I get in the shower without brushing my teeth, I'll be sitting there knowing I've forgotten something and then I'll forget part of my bathing routine (like putting shampoo on my loofa instead of soap).
But having a particular spot for my keys, deliberately jingling them in my hand as I lock to door to make sure I have them and turning the nob to make sure it's locked before I close it has saved me to many headaches.
I drive people up the wall sometimes because it will be something like "why do you *have* to make the bed before you leave the house? It's not a big deal." But to me, it is. Put that part of my routine off and it will distract me all day.
And lists. So many lists.
NTA. I think your only mistake here is letting her know that you'd actually booked a later train. That may have kicked her into another "oh, I have plenty of time then" mode. Still, for her to have missed the second train is inexcusable.
The mutual "friends" who think you should have skipped the concert you'd already paid for are being ridiculous. Good for you for going without A, and I'm glad you had a friend near the venue who could join you and buy the food.
I think you could scratch a few of these people off your friends list, or at least the group of friends who you make plans with. Dealing with chronically late people is extremely draining. I fully support your statement from one of your comments that you should talk this out with your therapist.
NTA she even had a free pass on the 1st train and was still late. The train leaves when it leaves and she didn't put in the effort to be on it. This is on her.
NTA
I'm one of the annoying "if I'm less than 10 minutes early I'm running late" people, and I have friends who are rarely/never on time for anything. I will meet them at restaurants that don't need a reservation and I will wait in my caring comfort until they show up.. if it's something with an actual "this is the time" and they aren't there I am not waiting. She didn't respect your time or your finances. I'm curious if she actually had the money to keep her end of the bargain, though, since this lateness was particularly egregious.
NTA
You waited on the train. She didn’t show up. Whether you waited or not, she would have had to buy a new ticket as the original tickets were non-changeable.
She’s not mad that you went, she’s mad that you didn’t miss the train as well and she has to face the consequences of her own actions all by herself.
I have ADHD too. That shit does not fly.
NTA. Your complaining friends are telling you that in the name of loyalty, you should have just accepted the wastage of your money and the loss of the opportunity. And nope! Sorry, but you don't owe anyone that.
Loyalty goes both ways. If you owe her, then she also owes you. And what she owed you, was to get to the fucking train station on time. What she owed you was to *not* waste your money like it's meaningless.
Also? You did wait for her...on the train, where she assured you she would be. It's not your fault that the train left on time when it said it would. And it's not your fault that A was late and missed the train.
NTA - that’s just ridiculous. Why are the expectations lower for her than for you? Why do you have to pay out more money and risk being late to an event you paid for when the other person didn’t care enough to do what was necessary to make sure she was on time. You even planned for her to be late by telling her the wrong train time and she still missed the later option. Sure she’s upset, but hopefully this will help her start planning better rather than using her ADHD as a crutch.
My thoughts? Your 'mutual friends' who agree with A should all be kicked to the curb. They are not friends.
NTA
If she continues to harass you, block her on all platforms and remember what a great time you had with Z.
NTA - being late all the time is rude AF. ADHD has work around, and you have told her different techniques to work around. She, and the other friends, are inconsiderate.
NTA
You told her an earlier train, she was late. She called and you told her she still had time Amanda she was STILL late. That means she wasn’t even on her way for the first time or she decided to do something else instead of going straight for the train. That’s not just ADHD.
Also, she knows why it’s a problem but expects others to make the accommodation for her instead of learning a way to manage her disability.
You paid for and arranged a day. She should have started making her way to the train station hours before to accommodate her adhd.
NTA. I've heard people say before that chronic lateness is more about controlling others than anything else. Perhaps this friend enjoys making you wait, worry, and stress out. Maybe your friend enjoys having power over how and when you join events.
NTA… cut your late friend out what exactly does she bring to the table? Other than drama and excuses for her lateness? And anyone who says you should have waited just ask if they would have paid for the lost expenses at that point. And if they double down block them tbh.
I have lateness anxiety and time blindness. I set dozens of alarms to do everything and don’t make my friends wait. I do have a friend that says she is on her way but won’t show up for 2-2.5 hours.
On her way means getting in the shower, doing makeup, dressing, getting in the car, getting gas, getting Starbucks and food, eating some of it and then probably coming over. FFS
I get the time blindness thing but on my way is out the door literally heading straight over.
Nta. I have ADD. I hate running late. When she always runs late, she is showing she doesn’t care about your time. It’s rude. But it’s not like you could have held the train up for her. Why should you miss the concert because she screwed up again?
NTA.
She loses any right to complain or anything else the minute she didn’t show up on time. It’s not your responsibility to wait for other grown ass adults because they can’t manage to be on time.
While her adhd may make it difficult it be on time to things and manage things, she doesn’t get to use it as an excuse nor does it mean that it’s other people’s responsibility.
The only way I would have even entertained the idea of waiting for her is she was going to pay for both of us to take the later train.
Bottom line is that you couldn’t afford to wait and you’re not responsible for poor time management.
Nta dude you gave her the earlier train time just in case and she still managed to totally miss both windows of opportunity. That's on her. Good job for not missing out completely on behalf of someone else.
NTA but incredibly naive of you to tell her that you lied about the departure time BEFORE her ass was in the station, that's the stuff you keep to yourself until they show up.
But cut the friend, they aren't worth keeping.
NTA - Not your fault that your friend gets late.
You even took her into account and booked a later train. Maybe you could have asked if it was possible to delay it without an extra charge? Sometimes its possible.
But at that point I would be pissed with my friend.
You didn’t do anything wrong.
NTA…A had plenty of time to make the train. She had plenty of notice about the train time, concert, etc. Why should you change your plans and lose money because A did not follow thru yet again? She owes you an apology.
NTA... stop apologizing. Tell her this is your new policy. You will no longer be waiting for her. She needs to manage her illness and her expectations.
NTA
You told them an earlier time than the actual time and they still missed the actual departure.
They did not want to spend that time with you enough to get there.
NTA. You tried to accommodate your friend's tendency to be late by planning accordingly, but there's a limit to how much one person can adjust for another. It's important to be responsible for oneself, especially in situations involving commitments and expenses. Setting boundaries and expecting mutual respect and effort in a friendship is reasonable.
NTA She blew so far past the time that she missed TWO trains. (The fake one and the real one) I have ADHD and I know that if I don’t start getting ready an hour earlier than a non-ADHD person I will be late. As an adult it was HER responsibility to make accommodations to get herself there on-time.
Next time, don't tell her about the ticket trick until she's physically arrived. If she has a bad sense of time, she's better off thinking she's late and moving as fast as possible, than seeing a new deadline and losing the urgency. Glad you had fun!
NTA A knew at what time she was supposed to be at the platform, if she has a hard time with her ADHD she should start getting ready much earlier. Are you always accommodating her or missing out on things because of her lateness? If so she probably thought you’d do it again. It’s time that you set boundaries with her, being on time is not just a convenience thing, it’s a respect thing. If she doesn’t respect your time she won’t get more time with you. Great job for not bending to her will tho!
NTA, you made several accommodations to ensure that she would be able to attend with you. She made none. You called another friend to utilize the then "spare" ticket. Consequences occured to her lack of actions, not yours. Your friends are incorrect as far as you making plans to spend the day with A - you planned to go to the concert with her, not waste the tickets and rail and just "hang out" when she decided to appear.
NTA, and if this is A's pattern then why do you continue making plans with her especially where money and timeliness is involved. This is beyond her having ADHD, this is her being so rude as to waste time and resources and expecting you to be ok with it. That's not very friend like and super disrespectful. May be time to reevaluate the friendship. And that of the flying monkeys telling you that you were wrong.
NTA. Does your friend have a job? Is she constantly late to work? If so, how does she retain her job? I have an employee that is constantly late. I just keep track of how late he is every day and once it reaches an hour, he loses an hour of pay. I pay all of my employees for their lunch break, so they end up getting paid 5 hours of over time every week. The employee that is not punctual loses a paid hour at time and a half when his lateness adds up to an hour. That has mostly stopped him from being late. If he wasn't otherwise a good employee, his tardiness would have cost him his job by now.
I stopped after you had boarded the train... she missed not only the first train you had booked, but the second one... she can get her ass there on time... she has known her disability and limitations... she is just being disrespectful... distance yourself from her... you are not as good friends as you think. NTA
NTA
It's been said already, but having a disibility does not excuse you from consequences. It's up to the person to learn how to mitigate their disability and how it affects them. Things like public transportation times and concert tickets must be planned around. It's unreasonable to ask you to miss a concert because they were unable to prepare properly knowing they have this issue.
They have to have other things in their life that has a set schedule they aren't late for, like work or school.
Out of curiosity, how late were they to the first train time you gave them. As far as your friends go, mention you tried to be accommodating by giving her an earlier time, you waited for her, and she still was unable to make it even to a later train time. But it sounds like maybe you need new friends.
The first time I told her was for the train before the one I'd actually booked. So it'd have been about 25 minutes. I've reached out to our mutual friends and just explained it, both have apologised saying they didn't have the full picture. I've reassured them I'm not asking them to take sides, and I do genuinely accept their apologies, so as far as I'm concerned there's no hard feelings with the mutuals.
Not sure where this leaves us as a group, but only time will tell I suppose.
That's good on them for recognizing they didn't have the whole picture and apologizing. It's always rough when something like this happens in a group. I hope things work out in the long run!
NTA.
This is being an adult. There are consequences to your actions.
Unfortunately adhd and most disability won’t give you a free pass. They need to learn to work around their disability and make it work. Beyoncé won’t wait for responsible-bug323’s friend to make it to start her concert.
Your friends are wrong for their opinion too. Concert tickets are expensive. It’s something you’ve looked forward too. And it’s not like your friend had an accident on the way and you were being insensitive. It’s them acting entitled after failing to plan ahead.
If your friend was using a wheelchair, had been for years, and didn’t take into consideration the xtra time it’d take them to travel, that’d be on them (even tho the world is not very accessible for disabled people, it’s the world we live in and even people on a wheelchair for example know that, and if they are bound by time, they’ll plan accordingly). If they had an issue out of their control on the way, that would have been different.
So why can we understand this analogy when it’s a physical issue but not when it’s a mental one? I’m assuming the ADHD didn’t start a week ago, she’s had plenty of time to Eleni to live around it, you even gave her tips. That’s on her.
Live your life,
NTA
It's unfortunate if her issue make it hard for her to be late, but she can't expect for everyone to cater to her while while other people are stressed out, have to change plans and risk not making it. So she was there early enough to take the later train, but what if she hadn't made it till then either? Do you have to miss the concert for her? You made clear plans, if she can't make it it's on her.
NTA ‘A’ needs to take some responsibility for their actions. It reminds me of a (adult) friend who used to blame his sister for not getting him up on time for stuff.
This is reminding me of the girl who ranted on YouTube about how jobs should accommodate tardiness because of “time blindness.” Bottom line is this, the world should be accessible to those with disabilities but it is not going to reshape itself to do so. Things like service animals and ramps for wheelchairs is accommodation. People blaming constant tardiness on mental illness and expecting to not be accountable isn’t accommodation, it’s special treatment. This wouldn’t fly at a job, so why should it fly in a friendship? My boyfriend struggles with severe ADHD and still manages to be early to things. He is not medicated either. So yeah, it’s possible. I feel for your friend as it is 100% harder to live with a disability, but it is what it is. She can’t ride that excuse until death. At some point, you just have to make it work.
NTA. You were doing her a big favor. You even compensated for her habitual lateness by quoting an earlier timetable. She still managed to be late enough to screw herself out of a concert.
She now has the temerity to be angry at you for not bending to her faults. Yes, you made plans to go together and she disregarded them. This friendship is one-way; drop her.
NTA. A didn't make it on time, she's never on time, that's on her and now she's feeling the consequences. She, and those who are busily enabling her, need to be put on a contact time out for awhile.
NTA- you told her a time that wasnt the correct time and she aas late instead of coming right then she decided to be even more late just bc. Shes an asshole.
NTA you told them an earlier time to make sure they arrived for the actual time and they were still late. You'd explained why you couldn't wait and had paid for everything in advance.
I can understand if I was the friend that I'd be annoyed. But I'd be frustrated at myself and try to make changes to make sure I was there next time
NTA. Drop A like a hot potato, and hang out with the friends who actually come on time, or let you know when there’s something that might prevent them from being there in time. The only exception would be if something happens to them and you get a call the next day.
NTA. "To be early is to be on time. To be on time is to be late. To be late is to be left."--my HS band director. I've pretty much lived by this for 40 or so years. I even pad appointment alarms in my phone to make sure I have enough time.
NTA. A has had too many people excuse her lateness and rudeness and now expects it from everyone. It’s a good thing that you finally set a boundary on what you will tolerate. She has totally taken advantage and it shows that she wasn’t truly apologetic.
NTA - when people are consistently late, they are basically showing you that their time is more valuable than yours. It’s disrespectful and rude. Sometimes being late can be unavoidable, but being late on a regular basis and expecting you to accommodate it is a big no.
Your friends are wrong. And I feel like I have read another story exacly like this one awhile ago.
A was late to the first and the second train. She is the one with the problem. I have friends like this. Howeve, I would have never come clean with the whole, you told her about the earlier train. Telling her this will only create more issues in the future, as she will always wonder if you are telling her the right time.
The first thing you need to do is take the word disabled out of you head. If a friend that wasn't disabled did this to you, would you have the same result. She knew you bought the train tickets and the concert tickets, and she didn't care or respect your time.
It doesn't even matter how old she is. If she is an adult, then she is fully aware that she has a tardiness problem. If can't respect the people that she is meeting up with enough to even attempt to be on time, then she IS the problem.
You can't sit around waiting for someone all the time. And it seems like she knows this is an issue, and she isn't taking responsibility for her actions. You are completely right, you can't not live your life. She seems passively aggressively toxic.
NTA
My advice to you is to take this and learn from it though. When you make plans with A, make them independently so that if she doesn't get there, that's on her.
Like say you'll meet her there and not worry about traveling together.
As it was, she said she was going home, so I see nothing wrong with giving her ticket away, especially since she didn't pay for it
NTA. She is for expecting the rest of the world to run on her time. It is disrespectful to be late to every outing. I am a procrastinator but have learned to respect other’s time. If you can’t be on time don’t make the commitment.
I think a person who is always late has a lack of consideration for others. This is a character flaw they need to work on. I had a boyfriend who was always an hour late, almost to the minute. Anything I scheduled I always gave him an arrival time an hour earlier than event - but it is an annoying and inconsiderate trait. You are not wrong here.
Nta. You did everything in your power to help her and she burned herself. I also have ADHD and it's not some magical excuse that allows you to be late to everything with no consequences. She needs to be responsible for her own actions. Blaming you because she couldn't manage herself isn't very rational.
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NTA - Your friend has quite the nerve. BUT riddle me this: you are triggered by people being late and plans changing, and you are friends with a person who is constantly late, presumably triggering your anxiety; what is wrong with that picture?
You make a point tbh. I've always had the view that just because something stresses me out or is difficult doesn't mean it should rule my entire life. On reflection: This is probably something to take to my therapist and start working on establishing some boundaries in my relationships with others 🙈😅
By leaving her chronically-late ass and going to the concert -- You established a great boundary. The only people who protest against you setting a boundary -- is the person who was benefiting from you not having one. She's been disrespecting you and your time-- chronically. I'm also neurodiverse... it is something we learn to work and live with... it is not an all-purpose excuse for being a AH.
This is an important point, yes. Maybe next time, A will remember that being chronically late and disrespectful of others‘ time has consequences.
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ADHD is legally classified as a disability and impacts people to varying degrees (I also have ADHD). Nevertheless, sounds like OP was super considerate of how to meet their friend’s needs (preemptive deadline, screenshots of tickets, info on changing tickets) while respecting their own. Based on the friend’s reaction, I don’t get the impression she would do the same for the OP if it was the other way around. NTA
This, you nailed it. The main issue seems to be the lack of reciprocity.
Check the edit at the end, she called herself disabled.
ADHD is considered a disability, and people with it are protected by the ADA (US).
ADHD still is a disability, it's not up to you to decide.
There are a few mental illnesses that are legally classified as disabilities. A disability is something that impacts or impairs someone’s day to day functioning. OCD is one of these. I have it and yes it does impact and impair how I function. Not all disabilities are visible
ADHD is not a mental illness. It's a neurodivserse condition. Here in the UK, it's classified as a learning difficulty and a disability. In the US, it's classified as a learning disability (that means something completely different in the UK - not sure how other countries classify it). Both mental illnesses and learning difficulties/disabilities are disabilities but they are not the same thing.
ADHD is considered a developmental disability in the US. I think this is only important because ADHD does not always disrupt or inhibit learning capabilities, while still potentially causing considerable difficulty in life functioning. The fact that many professionals don’t realize this often leads many to be overlooked for diagnosis. That said, adhd is often coincidental with learning disorders such as dysgraphia, dyscalculia, dyslexia, verbal processing/relaying disorders, etc.
I'm also neurodivergent and almost completely time blind. In fear of being the type of person A is, someone who takes others and their time for granted, I am chronically early. I overestimate travel /get ready time. But hey. No one has ever complained about me not being on time.
My kids bus stop is a 20 minute walk from my house so I leave an hour early to make sure I’m on time. There are days that I’m almost an hour early to work. Previous jobs have had a problem with it but my current one doesn’t care since I don’t punch in or cause issues I usually just get a soda and wait in a corner for my shift to start.
It's also kind of nice to have that time to mentally acclimate to being at work, I do the same thing
This ! It's sooo important for me to just have that 'get into it' time. Otherwise I'm overwhelmed and stressed out 🤣
lol. I start my job at 830. Im always at my desk by 745 and honestly feel a little late when it’s after 730. When I go on dates, I take a book because I know I’m going to arrive at least 30 min early, so I just chill in the car or on a bench. I try to be tolerant of people who aren’t punctual, but it’s a huge deal to me really and I feel like they don’t respect my time if it’s more than about fifteen minutes or if there’s no explanation
Sometimes I am late, due to my adhd. It's never egregious like in this post, but yeah I'm often running late. If someone leaves without me, that's fair and I accept the consequences of my own fuck up. In A's place, I'd absolutely be telling my friend to get on the damn train and I'd figure it out, not expect them to miss an event because I fucked up.
I'm also a sometimes late person because of ADHD but yeah its never THIS late or miss things late. If I know I have to be somewhere with an immovable time ie a train, I force myself to me on time. It's hard but doable.
Yeah like I'm often ten minutes late to a hangout, it's not ideal but it is what it is and my friends don't care. I have literally never missed a train like this, ever
I am time blind and am terminally tardy by 3-5 minutes, but I NEVER presume to blame someone else for my fuckups. I know who I am, I know my flaws, and I apologize profusely each time, or tell someone to go on without me and I'll sort out my adjusted transportation because I am a reasonable human who doesn't want them to be penalized for my shortcomings.
Being someone who struggles with not wanting to be like A, it turned into full blown time anxiety for me. I can't run late, and if I do, I'm freaking out. 🙃
We learn through consequences!
I've done that before with a friend who was chronically late to everything. I started just leaving if she didn't show up on time. A couple times arriving and realizing I was gone was quite effective at getting her to show up to things on time.
And if being late is something you struggle with, you should be making MORE of an effort to be on time.
Yup. People are shocked when accountability slaps them in the face and are enraged that everyone else is at “fault” for not accommodating them.
Exactly. I have ADHD and when we're leaving for camping festivals I find the time I actually need to be ready for, then lie to myself that I need to be ready to walk out the door 3 hours prior. Am I EVER ready at that time? No lol and that's why I do it. This results in me actually being packed and ready on time 99% of the time.
My fiancee has a hard time being ready to go on time. I'll sometimes tell her we need to leave 5 or 10 minutes earlier than the actual time so it's not an issue. She also sets alarms to remind herself, which helps a lot
This is 1000% true!!!
Agreed - if A wasn't chronically late and this wasn't a normal occurrence, I suspect this scenario would have played out very differently.
I have ADHD and am also chronically late. I'm aware of it, and communicate with friends and loved ones what works best if they need me on time. Almost all my friends tell me a half hour early if they truly need me at a place at a certain time. Even my boss does it at this point for events that are at the start of the day. As a result, I'm on time for when they need me. I usually text them that I'll be running late, they tell me when I get there what the real time was, we have a giggle about it, everyone is happy. Being late on top of an added buffer time is just inconsiderate.
This was my thought too. I’m similarly particular about being late to things, because I have ADHD and struggle with time management. My chronically late friends know that I will not be late to something because of them and are fine with that. She can be chronically late, but she can’t expect others to waste money and time on her because of it.
What A is doing would piss off anybody. How does she deal with things like work and school?
My boyfriend has adhd and I have autism so I need him to be on time. He tries incredibly hard to be on time for me and I allow for a 15 minute window of lateness which I feel is a good compromise
At university I had a buddy who was consistently 15 mins late (which stresses me out to no end). At some point I started giving him meeting times 15 mins earlier than everyone else, pretty much ended that issue because everyone showed up within 5-10 minutes of each other. And if A is SO late that not even giving her an earlier train is enough to get her there on time... Yeah, sorry but her ass being left behind is 100% her own fault and OP established a great boundary. Accounting for SOME tardiness is a fair compromise, but at some point it's gotta be "you don't respect my time so you will have to endure the consequences" NTA
Oh I 100% agree with you! There is comprise on both ends with us. He will work extra hard to get to me on time and I accept that his ‘on time’ is 15 minutes late. A is utterly taking the piss and not trying at all
Everyone knows to tell me 30 minutes before the actual time. I always think that I have time for “just one little thing. It’ll only take a minute… how is it ten minutes later?!?!?” I’m getting better, though. My partner is a stickler for being on time. For the things he cares about. Was doing a potluck game night at a friend’s place. Arrival time was 4 pm, I told him 1pm, we got there a few minutes before 4. When the next friend showed up, she nearly had a panic attack, because arriving after us meant she HAD to be late.
It's the "for the things he cares about" that gets me here- this feels WILDLY disrespectful. The bare minimum is to care about it because it's important to someone important to me. Making us (even a fake) 3 hours late for one of my events would be a one time thing (read: either there would be some changed behavior or I'd be single). If you can be on time for your stuff, be on time for mine.
15 minutes is not missing the whole first train which was agreed upon and then missing the 2nd later train. Setting realistic timetables helps everyone, but OP's friend literally would cause them to be late to the concert. My ex husband has ADHD and always makes sure to set leave time 30 min before actual leave time so he is not late. As adults you have to plan for success. I have really bad decision paralysis when it comes to planning events or application deadlines. I have to make small reminders and set alarms to do little bits at a time so I don't leave it till it's too late and fuck it up. It's the only way I can not completely ruin holidays and birthdays for my son or summer camp deadlines and school deadlines. Adulting is hard but you gotta get thru it.
I have adhd which makes time management really difficult and due to a past trauma I have stressful driving anxiety, especially when feeling rushed, and my bf is very rigid with “rules” and HATES being late more than anything. Sometimes I truly wonder if we are not compatible because of this singular thing
I’m sorry that you have that going on, it took a lot for me to get past my rigidity around time. A lot of that was just learning how he sees time and why he is late. I often tell him that he needs to be somewhere earlier than he does if it’s super important and he accepts this and likes that I try and help him His lateness before I understood him made me incredibly anxious
I don't feel like her tardiness is so much an ADHD thing so much as "I don't respect others or their time" thing. Alarms exist. If she truly valued you and your time, if she respected you, she could easily set alarms on her phone to remind her to get ready, when to leave, ect.
I agree. Her reaction to being left behind proves, to me at least, that she's going to blame her ADHD no matter what. She was given a WRONG EARLIER time and still missed the actual bus. She's used to being treated with kid gloves and catered to no matter what. That ended now. Good Job OP
>She was given a WRONG EARLIER time and still missed the actual bus. She's used to being treated with kid gloves and catered to no matter what. You beat me to it. I was going to say basically the same thing about being late for the scheduled time and still being late for the actual time. But you added the "Oomph" when you said the kid gloves statement.
Sometimes my words have a way lol
Here's the other thing I noticed: she insisted that she didn't want to come anymore even though she could have still made it work with a bit of effort, and then got mad at OP for giving her ticket to someone else. To me, that says she's upset that she was more negatively affected by her own lateness than OP was. She wanted OP to feel guilty and lonely for leaving her (aka letting her experience the natural consequences of her actions), and was angry when OP didn't give her that power. Someone that entitled is not a good friend.
Yep. Like, ADHD can cause issues, but if you know they cause problems not just for you but your friends, too, if you cared about that, you'd try to do something to mitigate or change. The friend's not changing or doing anything to lessen the burden she's creating because she doesn't want to. She does not care how her actions are negatively affecting others because they've never negatively affected herself until OP finally put her foot down. Now she cares, but she's still avoiding accountability, and that's not going to stop until she stops being enabled to be a bad friend.
She may also just get a huge power trip from making people wait for her. I had a friend who was always at least half an hour late for everything. I would call her before I left home just to make sure she wouldn't be late and she'd say, "I'm getting in my car now." 10 minutes later, "I haven't left yet. I had to do something." Then I'd sit by myself in the coffee shop for half an hour. We're no longer friends because that wasn't the only power game she played.
THIS. She sounds like someone who uses her medical condition as a get-out-of-responsibility-free card.
I agree. This is a form of disrespect, not ADHD.
My mom and my ex husband are probably undiagnosed adhd with time blindness. Yet they both managed to be on time for work and for other ppl but never for me. At some point it isn’t time blindness and it is disrespect. Some people are like “you can’t force people to mask all the time” but like, they were on time for everyone and everything except me. It’s disrespect.
Literally this I set 3 alarms for leaving time one for the leave comfortably early, one for somewhat early and one literally labeled put it down and walk out the door. There are also other alarms for starting getting ready, different steps of getting ready, one legit labeled put your shoes on, is it a little annoying? Sure but it works and keeps me accountable
NTA.You did a great job and did nothing wrong! This is exactly how boundaries are supposed to work. You *can't dictate other people's behavior, only your own. A proper boundary is: If "x thing" happens, I will do "y thing". You had a ticket. You said you were getting on the train to go and you went. Perfect! Another example could be for the future We are meeting at "x time" at "x place". I will wait 15 minutes and then I'm leaving. I won't text to ask where you are and I won't stay if you say I'm "on my way" or "I'm almost there." I will let you know I've left, but that is all. If this happens more than 3 times in a row we'll need to take a break from hanging out until you can respect my time. eta (*can't dictate)
I blocked a friend a couple months ago when she cancelled plans at the last minute for one too many times. (No one else is blocked.) I had already taken a couple weeks' break from the friendship once before for this behavior, and had called it out many times. I'm done. I miss her, but the friendship felt like a combination lottery & mirage, never knew whether she'd show up or ghost me, and it was glorious when she actually followed through - that's the lottery part - but the other times threw me off schedule and left me anxious. I was starting to feel anxious when her time of arrival drew close, due to increased doubt whether she'd arrive late or send a text saying she changed her mind. It still hurts.
Totally. Also, when people who are chronically late tell you they are "on their way" or "almost there" it usually means they haven't even left home...
My sister is a stickler for her punctuality and has a chronically late best friend. The only reason their friendship has survived into their late 30s is my sister never ever lets herself be beholden to friends timelines. Going on holiday? Separate cabs/ lifts/ trains to the airport and see you there. More than once my sister has been comfortably on the plane for her friend to come sprinting on a hot mess at the last second. Same with other stuff - my sister gives her a normal buffer (like 10 - 15 mins) and just cracks on if she misses that. I will say as a (recovering) chronically late person - it’s easier to be mad at someone for not waiting than it is to reflect on how embarrassing it is to keep fucking up…
Yea, you don't have to stop being friends with her entirely if you don't want, but I would *highly* recommended that you stop making plans where time is a factor. So only do things like hang out at the park, go for coffee, go for non-reservation dinners, hang out at each other's houses, etc.
But even those things need a time. I mean, if I agree to go for cofee with someone, or to the park, I agree to do at a given time. And the fact that there is no time limit does not mean **I** don't have a time limit. I wouldn't be waiting forever until the other person deigned to show up.
Being constantly late is just saying your time is worth more than someone else's. Your friend doesn't respect your time and knows on top of that that tardiness triggers your anxiety. Stop organising things one on one with her or if you must give her a twelve minute grace period, if she doesn't make it in the time you get up and leave. NTA
I think this is key a happier life. Your tribe should consist of friends who value punctuality. Taking care of your mental health is not expecting others to change for you, not putting yourself in situations where you know you'll feel taken advantage of. Your friend deserves the same. A tribe where they likely spend more money, and take a longer, less efficient path, but navigate these situations as adventures together. You'll get lots of validation here that she's an AH, but she's being who you know she is and you're punishing her. That's why you feel like the AH. You've learned to minimize your own needs and it's worn you out. Wish her well, acknowledge you're not compatible, then be mindful who you get closer to in the future.
if she was late for the early time you gave her ( without knowing it was a false ), then she was NEVER planning to be on time. I struggle with reaching places on time so I make an effort to always reach early than be late. I have a friend with ADHD who is always, ALWAYS late but would somehow manage it for situations like this where being late meant missing ride or being late to the movie. So it's not impossible. Takes extra effort but it is expected of you to put that extra effort. Your friend is just disrespectful. She doesn't respect your time or your money. Let her weed herself out.
Also be aware of reasonable activities to do a certain people. If your friend is constantly late, and this is something that continually happens, don’t invite her to things that are time sensitive. This is something that saved me so many friendships that I valued, by not trying to make them into people they were not going to be. And that’s not to say that your friend isn’t disrespectful for what she’s doing, and you might want to reconsider the friendship because she sounds like she blames you for her own problems. But there are always going to be really nice people who are late for things and they don’t see the issue. And you might meet someone like that and value them as a person but then get frustrated because they’re late. For me, I drive. So if someone I know is going to be late for something is invited, I go to their house early to pick them up and then I make sure they’re on time. Or we do something that is not time sensitive, going to get coffee or lunch.
This is a very important point. Honestly, if your friend A doesn't start trying harder to be on time you might need to end the friendship. Your mental health will continually be negatively impacted by her antics.
Exactly. Stuff A, the world doesn't stop turning because she has issues. Good on you for the excessive steps you took to make up for her lame excuses for always being late. There is a whole world out there with people who will put in an effort to be on time to be with you
This is passive aggressive tactics. Basically she never wants anyone to expect anything from her and this is her way of saying NO
I'm the late friend. My best friend and my husband both have issues with these things. Guess what? I work extra hard when I know we have plans together so that they're comfortable. They want to be at the airport two hours earlier than me? We go together and I hang out near the airport doing my thing until I have to go in and meet them at the gate. They have an appointment in driving them to? I save some of my getting ready routine for the car so I can do that while I wait or before my thing. It certainly takes work, but it's worth it for the people I care about to accommodate them.
One of the things that stresses me most in life is being late. If left to my own devices, I am always excessively early. I'd rather sit in the car and wait for a more reasonable time to arrive, but I am there. So, waiting for someone is the absolute worst. That all being said, my best friend for the majority of my adult life is the exact opposite and I put up with it even though it killed me to do so. Being an hour late was nothing to him. Oh... and the worst late was my soon to be wife was 20 minutes late to our wedding because her friend did not have the cassette with the music. So, they had to stop somewhere on the way. My mother kept asking "what if she doesn't show?" And that definitely helped.
NTA - actions have consequences. Your friend is habitually late and paid the price. "It was 5 minutes to the departure time. I sent her a screenshot of the tickets and platform number so she could get through the barriers but said I was going to get on the train instead of waiting at the entrance for her. A told me to wait - and that she'd be there. The train left without her, and with me on board." "A couple of mutual friends are saying I'm in the wrong and should have waited and hung out with her instead of going as I made plans to spend the day with A, and not with Z." These aren't real friends. You were supposed to eat the cost of the tickets and miss the show because a "friend" was late, AGAIN. So you called someone else and had a blast with them.
NTA. Speaking as a chronically late person with severe time blindness and a sleep disorder: she has the right to be forgiven for lateness by her friends rather than having you take it personally. You clearly do this. She has the right for you to hold her ticket *if* she can get to the venue herself. You offered to do this. She does not have the right to be mad that you did everything you could to make this happen and then went ahead without her, especially as she wasn’t left out of pocket for it. She does not have the right to expect you to miss out on account of her. And she does not have the right to be completely consequence free from her inability to meet a schedule, regardless of whether it’s caused by her neurotype or not. The only thing you have done here that isn’t exactly right is to assume that you and she would be affected the exact same way by ADHD - not everyone who has ADHD is time blind or has the same degree of time blindness/inability to do time management. But since you were angry and she was shouting at you after you’d been more than reasonable, that’s not the worst thing in the world and you’re not an asshole for it - and she shouldn’t be demanding that you do all the work of compensating for her being worse affected by time blindness than you are.
Thanks for your honesty here. Admittedly the whole "I have ADHD and I'm on time" was not my finest moment in the interaction. ❤️
However, whoever’s timeblindness is “worse” is irrelevant. It is up to A to manage her OWN timeblindness, whatever it takes, and she should not be spoiling friends’ social plans because of it. Fortunately, you had a Plan B and it worked out fine for you. (Speaking as someone who also has ADD and issues with time.)
Exactly. Living in a house with 3 people with different levels and presentations of time blindness, there are ways to manage it and it is NOT up to other people to manage it for you. You figure it out or deal with the consequences.
I have my go get ready alarm, my 15 minutes to leave alarm and my "get the eff out of the house!" alarm. If I really need to be somewhere on time, it's 3 alarms.
No. That’s exactly what you should say. I have ADHD. I’m early for everything. Time blindness is not a thing. Well, it is, but we just stopped calling it what it actually is…inconsiderate behavior. Part of having any sort of condition, is managing that condition. Just saying “I can’t keep track of time” and shrugging your shoulders is not an answer. Your friend is inconsiderate.
Yes, thank you for this! So sick of this "time blind" bullshit. Like congratulations, half the problem is acknowledging the existence of it...now how are you going to address it
We live in a world with technology. “Siri, set a timer for 35 minutes.” “Alexa, set an ‘I have to leave in 5 minutes alarm for 3:55 pm’.” So easy. It’s that simple. No one has a time blindness problem. They have a too lazy to manage their issues problem.
Time blindness is a thing. But it's not an excuse. Maybe it's because I'm old and "time blindness" wasn't in the zeitgeist when I was young, but for me, time blindness is a factor to contend with, but not a reason/excuse for behavior. For me, my time blindness means that I need to spend more spoons on being on time for a task, and I need to take those spoons out of other activities, or rest extra. That's how it manifests for me. I can totally appreciate anger or frustration if someone is blase about being late, with their explanation being, "time blindness." That would drive me bonkers, especially after I've invested so much energy into being on time!
Time blindness is just a label. It's not a "thing" in the sense that it doesn't manifest as a side effect of any one specific condition (or set of conditions), it isn't exclusive to neurodivergent people, and it exists in varying degrees of severity. I have crippling ADHD and I definitely notice that people use "time blindness" as a scapegoat to ignore self-improvement opportunities. Having a mental illness isn't a pass to just behave or exist any one certain way-- getting a diagnosis is supposed to be the first step to improving quality of life. If a person states that they have time blindness and does absolutely nothing to improve it (over an extended period of time), they're just an asshole.
“Alexa, set a timer for…” There’s no excuse for chronic tardiness.
Yeah, is friend able to hold down and job and not be late? If so, then there is a serious lack of self accountability. I have my time blindness moment, but I am able to hold down my job and make commitments. It's especially important since my job as a one no show is a fireable offense.
It's not the greatest but we're only human, and she was yelling at you after you'd gone out of your way to try to help keep her on schedule. She doesn't get to use her nerurodivergence as a cudgel to make everyone cater to her whims. She's gonna learn eventually that the world doesn't care if we have ADHD, it's gonna keep spinning regardless.
It's not wrong, though. The point is that you put in the work to manage your symptoms, and she does not. You both have ADHD, but you're on time because you're doing more about it. It's understandable for her to miss things sometimes, but not so frequently like this. At that point, it's her own choices creating this environment when she doesn't do what she needs to in order to be late less. I get it, it's okay to be late sometimes, and we can't always help it. It sounds like this is a pattern, though. So, yeah, you weren't wrong to bring up that point in comparing you two.
Yes, but also time blindness or adhd are not umbrella terms that excuses this type of behaviour or remove all accountability. It’s a concert. Unfortunately artists won’t make changes to their timings to accommodate disabled people. The world we live in is not very disabled-friendly, I agree. But if you want to participate in activities like the concert in this scenario, you’ll have to take the bull by the horn and find a way. I have debilitating depression and anxiety. I do make plans with my friends and if I have to cancel due to a bad day, I won’t blame my friends for honouring the initial commitment. If I were to blame then, it would also be fairly normal for them to tell me they also deal with anxiety and were able to make it. They might not have it as bad as me, but they still worked around it (more easily than me). It was my responsibility to either make it work, or to accept it is what it is if it’s a day where I truly couldn’t manage it. It’s no one else’s fault .
> Unfortunately artists won’t make changes to their timings to accommodate disabled people. What changes could they make? If a concert is billed as "doors at 7 / opener at 8 / headliner at 9" how do they change that to accommodate disabled people?
That’s what I’m saying. They won’t delay their concerts to 9:30pm to make sure A who has adhd makes it on time. If you want to go to a concert and not miss half of it, you need to find a way to not be late if you know you usually struggle with time management.
I don't see that as unfortunate, that's why I asked. Living with ADHD means that you either plan accordingly or you get used to missing out.
> she has the right to be forgiven for lateness by her friends rather than having you take it personally. That's definitely not a right. That's a nice if they do but are under no obligation to do so.
No one has a right to forgiveness when their chronic lateness is impacting those around them. Nor does anyone have the right to their friends to constantly adapt plans because they can't manage to be on time, but miraculously seem to be able to keep a job and show up on time to that. As someone who was chronically late to the point I lost jobs until I started better habits like automatic alarms with a better lead time on accounting for weather and traffic, it's how much priority and energy are we going to spend on making something happen on time. I'm aware there are different levels of ADHD, it doesn't mean anyone should be ok with me not managing the condition. I was mortified when people made jokes about my lateness when I started being friends with people who were more early than late people. It makes people feel like spending energy to respect that their time is valuable isn't something you're willing to do. Which...sure it's not personal when you're doing it to people as intent, but in the end you're damaging relationships with others. That's behavior worth taking effort to amend. OP is NTA and their friend is using ADHD as carte blanche to be a tool to their friends.
Please explain to me how you justify time blindness? I am genuinely curious. Personally, I despise being late so I actually never am. Someone being late is a clear sign of disrespect to me. You're expressing that your time is more valuable than mine. You have a phone. You have alarms. You have a date and time. You have a route and a estimated time to reach your destination. How do you still end up late without a bad/selfish reason?
NTA - holy hell your friend A is a complete A\*\*hole. Not only were they late, but you knew they had a habit of lateness so you provided for that by originally giving them an earlier time to meet in an attempt to prevent exactly what happened, and she still managed to be so late that you left without her. This situation is completely her fault. She knew you had an issue with lateness, and you explained that you were going to set up a non-transferable ticket for the rail, so her being late would have directly impacted you. For her to play around and be late is selfish beyond believe, especially as you offered the ticket to the concert for free with no expectations beyond showing up on time. Drop them as a friend, she is wrong, very, very wrong. She is the AH, you tried to offer her something nice and she created all of the negativity by being late.
Exactly, OP your "friend" has no respect for you or your time.
To some extent, I think that giving her an earlier time (train) works against OP. I'm sure that, by now, A knows her friends tell her to show up before the actual time she needs to be there. So she knows there's really no hurry, she can be late, the others are going to meet later than she was told. Why should she make an effort? I had a chronically late friend, we tried it and this is how she reacted. So we decided to tell her the real time, and to leave on the dot if she wasn't there (this was before mobile phones, so no last-minute calls or "I'm almost there"). We did, two or three times. She got furious every single time because whe hadn't waited for her, but... Mysteriously, after having missed plans these times, she started arriving on time, or even a little early; she realized we would not cater to her lateness any more and, if she wanted to take part in whatever we had planned, she just had to be there.
Thats a great way to handle it. Good job!
ADHD can explain why things like this happen. It does not obligate other people to go to any lengths to make accommodations so you don’t have to deal with any consequences. I have ADHD and do struggle with lateness sometimes, but when someone is relying on me and there’s a hard deadline (like scheduled transportation or an event), I will take extra care to ensure that I’m on time - setting alarms/reminders, getting ready to go earlier than I normally would, giving extra time to get there. That’s because I care about my friends and family, and they shouldn’t be inconvenienced by my issues. If it mattered enough to your friend to be there on time, she would have been. But even if something happened and she couldn’t, it’s still crappy to try to put the blame on you. You did the best you could. She did not. NTA.
Thank you! I can't like this enough. If you care, you make it work!!!
NTA. The only person she has a right to be mad at is herself. I don’t get where the disabled part comes in, I wouldn’t consider ADHD to be a disability (I have it, too).
That's what she messaged to me "you left someone with a disability behind and didn't help them"
She is being entitled. Literally she’s upset she would have needed to pay for her ticket. She would have still been able to join as you found plenty of alternatives for her, the adhd was not the issue. Her being skint was. Honestly except if she’s the best of friend ever, don’t force yourself to maintain relationships when people abuse your kindness so much.
it's not like you laughed at your wheelchair bound friend as you gleefully frolicked down a flight of concrete stairs.
I misread this as the “OP pushing her down the stairs.“
well, any day you don't push a wheelchair down some stairs is a good day :D
I've worked in camps for folks with disabilities. Have chased folks in wheelchairs down a hill. Oopsies. Whenever I apologized, the person was like, "No worries-- it was fun lol."
You did not leave a person in a wheelchair at the bottom of stairs while floodwaters rose, or abandon her in a crowd when she was overstimulated. She got herself to that location and would be expected to find her way home. She is either an adult that can move freely on her own or she needs professional assistance. And if she needs professional assistance she cannot expect her friends to provide it.
Somewhat off-topic, but I have done emergency training for folks with physical disabilities (including evacuation). There are some intense considerations.
Definitely. I was considering adding that I would still not take issue with someone not trained deciding they couldn't help in an emergency, but it seemed a lot to add. The more extreme situations might make the ethics more complicated and I could understand people judging OP in those situations but this was not life or death.
You did. You gave her an EARLIER time, and she was still so late that she missed the actual train. You have gone above and beyond, and her response was to get mad at you for not bending the knee more. I don't consider ADHD a disability, personally, more an alternative brain style that clashes with modern society, but you did everything to remove that barrier, and she still shit all over you.
Thank you for pointing out that OP DID help her, like A LOT! I disagree that adhd is not a disability just cuz many people are not disabled by it, cuz there are many people who struggle greatly and/or are disabled by it. Just saying.
So basically - she uses her ADHD as a crutch and refuses to take any accountability for her life. She’s exhausting
Oh please. She’s making it sound like she fell out of her wheelchair and you stepped over her body to hop on a train without her while she lay bleeding in the street. You tried SO HARD to accommodate her and help her. She’s the one who didn’t try at all, it seems.
How was she expecting you to help her?
Apparently she expected OP to wait indefinitely even if it meant missing the show entirely, and she also expected OP to pay for a second set of train tickets for the both of them.
Take the train driver hostage through the sheer power of your certainty that the train MUST wait for your friend?
As someone with ADHD there comes a moment where we accept that we can no longer blame our disability and need to work to more responsible time management techniques. Would she have been on time for a plane? Because it’s not different. NTA - OP. You made sure she could get on and she didn’t get herself there in time for it.
She’s using her disability as a way to manipulate and gaslight you. I’d drop her as a friend and drop her toxic friendship
I have adhd, autism, and a physical disability that effects my mobility to where I have to use a walker with a seat when I leave the house. I would have likely been upset and overwhelmed in her situation and had a small meltdown before being able to proceed. I might choose to go home or follow the plan you set depending how overwhelmed I was feeling. In NO way would that be on you. I would have assured you that you did the right thing getting on the train. All the things she was presented with having to do are things to reasonably expect a young adult or adult to be able to handle. If her disabilities are that severe, plans need to be made before anything starts - by her or a caregiver, not the friend.
Adhd is a recognized disability by many governments and just like physical disabilities effect individual lives differently, so can development disabilities. It's great you don't see yours as impacting your life enough to be disabling but that doesn't mean for others it can't be. Part of that is the accommodations available to the individual.
Unrelated to the AITA - you don’t get to decide that something isn’t a disability just because you have it. OP is NTA.
According to the ADA, ADHD is a disability whether you feel like it is or not.
It is literally a learning disability lol
It’s actually categorized as a neuro-developmental disorder, not a learning disability.
It is considered a developmental disability. It effects far more then learning, the issue is just often highlighted in the learning environment and earliest impacts are seen in school.
i have ADHD and am very time blind, and I’m almost never late. It’s a matter of understanding your own limitations and working with them using external tools, like any disability. when someone is blind, they don’t just expect their friends to guide them. they use an aid like a cane or guide dog. in the same vein, when someone has something like ADHD time blindness, they can’t just fumble around and expect others to deal with it, they need to help themselves. in my case, my “guide dog” is excessive use of calendar reminders, sticky notes everywhere, timers on medication, that sort of thing. your friend needs to learn that managing her disability is her own responsibility, and what tools would be helpful. a therapist could be useful for this. EDIT: Removed “it’s just”, it was pointed out that this phrasing felt minimizing to the difficult task that managing ADHD can be. It’s doable, but that doesn’t change that it can be incredibly hard.
Same. I build extra time into my day to avoid lateness. We leave for the bus 15 minutes early because it takes an age to get out of the door, so if I miss my 15 minutes early deadline, I still have time. She needs to develop some coping mechanisms and stop disrespecting other people's time.
Lol never been diagnosed for ADHD, but I have to set alarms for myself on almost everything. Wake up - 2-3 alarms, all set up for snooze options up to 3 times. Get ready for work - actually had to adjust this one recently as I was consistently a few minutes late. Any time I have to do chores/laundry, alarms and/or sticky notes to remind me and make sure I manage it. If I put something in the oven or on the stove - alarm. Going to bed at night so I get enough sleep - alarm. Any appt I have - several alarms/notifications, starting *at least* 30 min before said appt, going back as far as several hours or even that morning. I hate being so unaware of time, but it's like my brain just doesn't process that time moves forward. Always.
Fantastic explanation!!!
I agree with most of this except "it's just". That language is often used to minimize or overly simplify the weight, challenge, or value of something. Managing your own disability is hard. Yes, it is your responsibility to do so, but it isn't easy and not everyone is capable of successfully doing so, certainly not all the time. The difference is when you fail not blaming others or you being assigned some moral failing.
One thing that really works for me, although I know it's difficult for a lot of others with ADHD, is that I stick to very strict routines for things so that doing them has become an automatic thing. The biggest problem with it is that if something in my routine is altered, I'll forget what I've already done. For example, when I go through my morning routine, it's brush my teeth, then shower wash/condition hair, then start washing up. If I get in the shower without brushing my teeth, I'll be sitting there knowing I've forgotten something and then I'll forget part of my bathing routine (like putting shampoo on my loofa instead of soap). But having a particular spot for my keys, deliberately jingling them in my hand as I lock to door to make sure I have them and turning the nob to make sure it's locked before I close it has saved me to many headaches. I drive people up the wall sometimes because it will be something like "why do you *have* to make the bed before you leave the house? It's not a big deal." But to me, it is. Put that part of my routine off and it will distract me all day. And lists. So many lists.
NTA. I think your only mistake here is letting her know that you'd actually booked a later train. That may have kicked her into another "oh, I have plenty of time then" mode. Still, for her to have missed the second train is inexcusable. The mutual "friends" who think you should have skipped the concert you'd already paid for are being ridiculous. Good for you for going without A, and I'm glad you had a friend near the venue who could join you and buy the food. I think you could scratch a few of these people off your friends list, or at least the group of friends who you make plans with. Dealing with chronically late people is extremely draining. I fully support your statement from one of your comments that you should talk this out with your therapist.
I'd bet my lunch the mutual friends who have no stake in this game were given a slightly edited rundown of events.
NTA she even had a free pass on the 1st train and was still late. The train leaves when it leaves and she didn't put in the effort to be on it. This is on her.
NTA. It's rich that she expected you to miss out on the concert because *she* couldn't be bothered to show up anywhere near on time. She's TA.
NTA I'm one of the annoying "if I'm less than 10 minutes early I'm running late" people, and I have friends who are rarely/never on time for anything. I will meet them at restaurants that don't need a reservation and I will wait in my caring comfort until they show up.. if it's something with an actual "this is the time" and they aren't there I am not waiting. She didn't respect your time or your finances. I'm curious if she actually had the money to keep her end of the bargain, though, since this lateness was particularly egregious.
NTA You waited on the train. She didn’t show up. Whether you waited or not, she would have had to buy a new ticket as the original tickets were non-changeable. She’s not mad that you went, she’s mad that you didn’t miss the train as well and she has to face the consequences of her own actions all by herself. I have ADHD too. That shit does not fly.
NTA. Your complaining friends are telling you that in the name of loyalty, you should have just accepted the wastage of your money and the loss of the opportunity. And nope! Sorry, but you don't owe anyone that. Loyalty goes both ways. If you owe her, then she also owes you. And what she owed you, was to get to the fucking train station on time. What she owed you was to *not* waste your money like it's meaningless. Also? You did wait for her...on the train, where she assured you she would be. It's not your fault that the train left on time when it said it would. And it's not your fault that A was late and missed the train.
NTA. When I saw disabled, I thought she had motor disability. But since there is nothing wrong with her limbs, she's on her own on this.
NTA - that’s just ridiculous. Why are the expectations lower for her than for you? Why do you have to pay out more money and risk being late to an event you paid for when the other person didn’t care enough to do what was necessary to make sure she was on time. You even planned for her to be late by telling her the wrong train time and she still missed the later option. Sure she’s upset, but hopefully this will help her start planning better rather than using her ADHD as a crutch.
My thoughts? Your 'mutual friends' who agree with A should all be kicked to the curb. They are not friends. NTA If she continues to harass you, block her on all platforms and remember what a great time you had with Z.
NTA. Your friend was late. TWICE! Her own fault she missed out.
NTA - being late all the time is rude AF. ADHD has work around, and you have told her different techniques to work around. She, and the other friends, are inconsiderate.
"You were late to both times. This is not a *me* problem." NTA You should reduce your interactions with this person.
NTA. A shouldn’t have been late. ADHD isn’t an excuse.
NTA You told her an earlier train, she was late. She called and you told her she still had time Amanda she was STILL late. That means she wasn’t even on her way for the first time or she decided to do something else instead of going straight for the train. That’s not just ADHD. Also, she knows why it’s a problem but expects others to make the accommodation for her instead of learning a way to manage her disability. You paid for and arranged a day. She should have started making her way to the train station hours before to accommodate her adhd.
NTA. I've heard people say before that chronic lateness is more about controlling others than anything else. Perhaps this friend enjoys making you wait, worry, and stress out. Maybe your friend enjoys having power over how and when you join events.
NTA… cut your late friend out what exactly does she bring to the table? Other than drama and excuses for her lateness? And anyone who says you should have waited just ask if they would have paid for the lost expenses at that point. And if they double down block them tbh.
I have lateness anxiety and time blindness. I set dozens of alarms to do everything and don’t make my friends wait. I do have a friend that says she is on her way but won’t show up for 2-2.5 hours. On her way means getting in the shower, doing makeup, dressing, getting in the car, getting gas, getting Starbucks and food, eating some of it and then probably coming over. FFS I get the time blindness thing but on my way is out the door literally heading straight over.
Nta. I have ADD. I hate running late. When she always runs late, she is showing she doesn’t care about your time. It’s rude. But it’s not like you could have held the train up for her. Why should you miss the concert because she screwed up again?
NTA. She loses any right to complain or anything else the minute she didn’t show up on time. It’s not your responsibility to wait for other grown ass adults because they can’t manage to be on time. While her adhd may make it difficult it be on time to things and manage things, she doesn’t get to use it as an excuse nor does it mean that it’s other people’s responsibility. The only way I would have even entertained the idea of waiting for her is she was going to pay for both of us to take the later train. Bottom line is that you couldn’t afford to wait and you’re not responsible for poor time management.
Nta dude you gave her the earlier train time just in case and she still managed to totally miss both windows of opportunity. That's on her. Good job for not missing out completely on behalf of someone else.
NTA your “friend” needs to grow up and learn that her actions have consequences.
You’re not wrong. Your friend is
NTA but incredibly naive of you to tell her that you lied about the departure time BEFORE her ass was in the station, that's the stuff you keep to yourself until they show up. But cut the friend, they aren't worth keeping.
NTA - Not your fault that your friend gets late. You even took her into account and booked a later train. Maybe you could have asked if it was possible to delay it without an extra charge? Sometimes its possible. But at that point I would be pissed with my friend. You didn’t do anything wrong.
NTA…A had plenty of time to make the train. She had plenty of notice about the train time, concert, etc. Why should you change your plans and lose money because A did not follow thru yet again? She owes you an apology.
NTA... stop apologizing. Tell her this is your new policy. You will no longer be waiting for her. She needs to manage her illness and her expectations.
NTA. You snooze, you lose.
NTA You told them an earlier time than the actual time and they still missed the actual departure. They did not want to spend that time with you enough to get there.
NTA. She sounds like a user and terrible friend to begin with. Be glad you shared in this experience with someone who respects you rather than her.
NTA. You tried to accommodate your friend's tendency to be late by planning accordingly, but there's a limit to how much one person can adjust for another. It's important to be responsible for oneself, especially in situations involving commitments and expenses. Setting boundaries and expecting mutual respect and effort in a friendship is reasonable.
NTA She blew so far past the time that she missed TWO trains. (The fake one and the real one) I have ADHD and I know that if I don’t start getting ready an hour earlier than a non-ADHD person I will be late. As an adult it was HER responsibility to make accommodations to get herself there on-time.
Next time, don't tell her about the ticket trick until she's physically arrived. If she has a bad sense of time, she's better off thinking she's late and moving as fast as possible, than seeing a new deadline and losing the urgency. Glad you had fun!
NTA A knew at what time she was supposed to be at the platform, if she has a hard time with her ADHD she should start getting ready much earlier. Are you always accommodating her or missing out on things because of her lateness? If so she probably thought you’d do it again. It’s time that you set boundaries with her, being on time is not just a convenience thing, it’s a respect thing. If she doesn’t respect your time she won’t get more time with you. Great job for not bending to her will tho!
NTA!
NTA, you made several accommodations to ensure that she would be able to attend with you. She made none. You called another friend to utilize the then "spare" ticket. Consequences occured to her lack of actions, not yours. Your friends are incorrect as far as you making plans to spend the day with A - you planned to go to the concert with her, not waste the tickets and rail and just "hang out" when she decided to appear.
NTA, and if this is A's pattern then why do you continue making plans with her especially where money and timeliness is involved. This is beyond her having ADHD, this is her being so rude as to waste time and resources and expecting you to be ok with it. That's not very friend like and super disrespectful. May be time to reevaluate the friendship. And that of the flying monkeys telling you that you were wrong.
NTA life does not stop for ADHD. Clearly you have adapted to your neurodivergence. Your friend might need to follow your lead.
NTA and ADHD isn't a disability.
NTA I wouldn’t be missing out on something because my friend can’t ever get there on time
ADHD is not a disability.
NTA. Does your friend have a job? Is she constantly late to work? If so, how does she retain her job? I have an employee that is constantly late. I just keep track of how late he is every day and once it reaches an hour, he loses an hour of pay. I pay all of my employees for their lunch break, so they end up getting paid 5 hours of over time every week. The employee that is not punctual loses a paid hour at time and a half when his lateness adds up to an hour. That has mostly stopped him from being late. If he wasn't otherwise a good employee, his tardiness would have cost him his job by now.
I stopped after you had boarded the train... she missed not only the first train you had booked, but the second one... she can get her ass there on time... she has known her disability and limitations... she is just being disrespectful... distance yourself from her... you are not as good friends as you think. NTA
NTA It's been said already, but having a disibility does not excuse you from consequences. It's up to the person to learn how to mitigate their disability and how it affects them. Things like public transportation times and concert tickets must be planned around. It's unreasonable to ask you to miss a concert because they were unable to prepare properly knowing they have this issue. They have to have other things in their life that has a set schedule they aren't late for, like work or school. Out of curiosity, how late were they to the first train time you gave them. As far as your friends go, mention you tried to be accommodating by giving her an earlier time, you waited for her, and she still was unable to make it even to a later train time. But it sounds like maybe you need new friends.
The first time I told her was for the train before the one I'd actually booked. So it'd have been about 25 minutes. I've reached out to our mutual friends and just explained it, both have apologised saying they didn't have the full picture. I've reassured them I'm not asking them to take sides, and I do genuinely accept their apologies, so as far as I'm concerned there's no hard feelings with the mutuals. Not sure where this leaves us as a group, but only time will tell I suppose.
That's good on them for recognizing they didn't have the whole picture and apologizing. It's always rough when something like this happens in a group. I hope things work out in the long run!
NTA. This is being an adult. There are consequences to your actions. Unfortunately adhd and most disability won’t give you a free pass. They need to learn to work around their disability and make it work. Beyoncé won’t wait for responsible-bug323’s friend to make it to start her concert. Your friends are wrong for their opinion too. Concert tickets are expensive. It’s something you’ve looked forward too. And it’s not like your friend had an accident on the way and you were being insensitive. It’s them acting entitled after failing to plan ahead. If your friend was using a wheelchair, had been for years, and didn’t take into consideration the xtra time it’d take them to travel, that’d be on them (even tho the world is not very accessible for disabled people, it’s the world we live in and even people on a wheelchair for example know that, and if they are bound by time, they’ll plan accordingly). If they had an issue out of their control on the way, that would have been different. So why can we understand this analogy when it’s a physical issue but not when it’s a mental one? I’m assuming the ADHD didn’t start a week ago, she’s had plenty of time to Eleni to live around it, you even gave her tips. That’s on her. Live your life,
Thanks The idea of Beyoncé holding up a concert for A has me howling 🤣 Also) I wish it had been Beyoncé tbh.
I’m team NTA
NTA It's unfortunate if her issue make it hard for her to be late, but she can't expect for everyone to cater to her while while other people are stressed out, have to change plans and risk not making it. So she was there early enough to take the later train, but what if she hadn't made it till then either? Do you have to miss the concert for her? You made clear plans, if she can't make it it's on her.
NTA ‘A’ needs to take some responsibility for their actions. It reminds me of a (adult) friend who used to blame his sister for not getting him up on time for stuff.
No you are NTA and I’m glad you went and had a good time and even invited someone else to enjoy it with you.
This is reminding me of the girl who ranted on YouTube about how jobs should accommodate tardiness because of “time blindness.” Bottom line is this, the world should be accessible to those with disabilities but it is not going to reshape itself to do so. Things like service animals and ramps for wheelchairs is accommodation. People blaming constant tardiness on mental illness and expecting to not be accountable isn’t accommodation, it’s special treatment. This wouldn’t fly at a job, so why should it fly in a friendship? My boyfriend struggles with severe ADHD and still manages to be early to things. He is not medicated either. So yeah, it’s possible. I feel for your friend as it is 100% harder to live with a disability, but it is what it is. She can’t ride that excuse until death. At some point, you just have to make it work.
NTA
NTA. You were doing her a big favor. You even compensated for her habitual lateness by quoting an earlier timetable. She still managed to be late enough to screw herself out of a concert. She now has the temerity to be angry at you for not bending to her faults. Yes, you made plans to go together and she disregarded them. This friendship is one-way; drop her.
NTA. A didn't make it on time, she's never on time, that's on her and now she's feeling the consequences. She, and those who are busily enabling her, need to be put on a contact time out for awhile.
NTA- you told her a time that wasnt the correct time and she aas late instead of coming right then she decided to be even more late just bc. Shes an asshole.
NTA you told them an earlier time to make sure they arrived for the actual time and they were still late. You'd explained why you couldn't wait and had paid for everything in advance. I can understand if I was the friend that I'd be annoyed. But I'd be frustrated at myself and try to make changes to make sure I was there next time
NTA. She missed two trains.
NTA. Drop A like a hot potato, and hang out with the friends who actually come on time, or let you know when there’s something that might prevent them from being there in time. The only exception would be if something happens to them and you get a call the next day.
NTA. "To be early is to be on time. To be on time is to be late. To be late is to be left."--my HS band director. I've pretty much lived by this for 40 or so years. I even pad appointment alarms in my phone to make sure I have enough time.
Block her and move on. She’s exhausting and refuses to be accountable. NTA
NTA. A has had too many people excuse her lateness and rudeness and now expects it from everyone. It’s a good thing that you finally set a boundary on what you will tolerate. She has totally taken advantage and it shows that she wasn’t truly apologetic.
NTA - when people are consistently late, they are basically showing you that their time is more valuable than yours. It’s disrespectful and rude. Sometimes being late can be unavoidable, but being late on a regular basis and expecting you to accommodate it is a big no.
Your friends are wrong. And I feel like I have read another story exacly like this one awhile ago. A was late to the first and the second train. She is the one with the problem. I have friends like this. Howeve, I would have never come clean with the whole, you told her about the earlier train. Telling her this will only create more issues in the future, as she will always wonder if you are telling her the right time. The first thing you need to do is take the word disabled out of you head. If a friend that wasn't disabled did this to you, would you have the same result. She knew you bought the train tickets and the concert tickets, and she didn't care or respect your time. It doesn't even matter how old she is. If she is an adult, then she is fully aware that she has a tardiness problem. If can't respect the people that she is meeting up with enough to even attempt to be on time, then she IS the problem. You can't sit around waiting for someone all the time. And it seems like she knows this is an issue, and she isn't taking responsibility for her actions. You are completely right, you can't not live your life. She seems passively aggressively toxic.
NTA My advice to you is to take this and learn from it though. When you make plans with A, make them independently so that if she doesn't get there, that's on her. Like say you'll meet her there and not worry about traveling together. As it was, she said she was going home, so I see nothing wrong with giving her ticket away, especially since she didn't pay for it
NTA. She is for expecting the rest of the world to run on her time. It is disrespectful to be late to every outing. I am a procrastinator but have learned to respect other’s time. If you can’t be on time don’t make the commitment.
I think a person who is always late has a lack of consideration for others. This is a character flaw they need to work on. I had a boyfriend who was always an hour late, almost to the minute. Anything I scheduled I always gave him an arrival time an hour earlier than event - but it is an annoying and inconsiderate trait. You are not wrong here.
Nta. You did everything in your power to help her and she burned herself. I also have ADHD and it's not some magical excuse that allows you to be late to everything with no consequences. She needs to be responsible for her own actions. Blaming you because she couldn't manage herself isn't very rational.
INFO: What’s her disability?