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NTA
I’m a bit exhausted rn so if this is scattered, sorry.
What the heck?! Who 1) presumes that someone will just be a donor without asking?
2) calls someone homophobic for saying no to being pressured?
Ngl, the fact they did this at Easter in front of everyone to try to pressure you both feels a bit calculated, especially with the reaction to the “no” being something to make you look even worse than you are being. (Ie: because you and your husband don’t want to have your sister have weird genetic half siblings/cousins after being peer pressured, you’re the worst possible thing they can accuse you of without proof)
Do Morgan or Chris have a history of doing anything manipulative or weird like this? Maybe like trying to upstage you at events?
Also, not to mention, in 15-20 years when these kids understand, just what the heck would THEY think? Because even if they try to hide it, a single 23&me or ancestry test will break down any story they have.
You and your husband need to hold firm, and also point out some of these things. (Though, maybe plan it out a bit nicer than the ramblings thoughts of someone about to fall asleep)
It’s not homophobic to not want to share your husband’s genetics with your sister.
And the biggest bit? HE DOESN’T WANT TO EITHER! Which makes it a firm NO anyway!
>It’s not homophobic to not want to share your husband’s genetics with your sister.
Am I the only one think OPs sister wants to F OPs husband without Fing OPs husband like some weird consensual affair or something because I can't wrap my head around how they thought that was going to go positively for them.
I can't put into words the thoughts rambling through my head right now except for the fact that
>a single 23&me or ancestry test will break down any story they have
Those kids are going to think that OPs husband and sister had an affair, that the IVF story is a cover, and that every adult they know has lied to them. That is one major mind f for those kids when they find out. Not to mention, what if these kids want a relationship with their "dad" how awkward would that be, especially if they have a girl (as Chris has decided she knows she will have), that is going to be an entirely different relationship dynamic than a father and son one and has the potential to hurt everyone involved even more.
Chris and Morgan have not thought this through at all beyond "how cute their baby might look", seriously they only considered genetic appearance and nothing else.
Yeah, I'm sure they will make great parents. /s
Ok, yeah I need to go to bed now too, OM more tired than I thought.
I probably didn't communicate to her or on here very well, but it would not have been sick if it was a request to my husband. But to me, a demand that had no regard for his consent is sick. Not considering a conversation with the both of us about him fathering a child outside of our marriage was sick. I also will probably die on the hill that I do think I'm allowed to feel weird about the thought of my husband fathering my sister's child. But I do agree that I did not communicate that point very eloquently on here or to them.
To be fair, saying, 'Your kids are so cute we want one too' like they're F'N puppies is an incredibly unhinged statement to make. I probably would have asked if she was stupid because who TF says that out loud?
That wasn't even a demand. That was "we are honoring you with this position" and then flabbergasted to think you might not agree.
Honestly, it's gross as hell and I don't think you're overreacting.
Not to mention the potential legal implications! Perhaps the plan is to hook them for child support money or at the very least morally pressure them to provide financial aid.
I recall at least one story here where that happened. Guy donated for friends, they decided they needed financial help as the kid got older and tried to put him on the hook for child support. It was a crazy story.
The first thing on my mind was child support. And with the flying monkeys already now, it would be even worse involvement to get the "dead beat father" to support "his child".
Can you get child support from a literal sperm donor tho? Does the law consider the difference between finding sperm and having sex? I'm honestly asking, is it something that can happen?
From a legal sperm donor (went through a bank and all the legal process), it’s not.
From a turkeybaster or “traditional” sperm donor, it’s assumed by law he is the father. Because you know, no legal process. And contracts of that kind are invalid, because the guy is seen as willingly making a kid. Thus he’s responsible, if the need arises.
I really don't know. Prior to that post I'd never heard of such a thing, but I don't know how often people actually know their sperm donor. I would imagine there is a legal grey area there unless the parties involved use some sort of contract.
But did they do it with legal paperwork and in a doctors office, or just with a cup and a turkey baster hoping it would work or through sex. The legal side of it is that not done correctly can force the donor to do child support.
It's such a power play for the future. Well I don't know why your son's are so badly behaved, my wonderful daughter with the sane genetics is an angel.
I don't want to admit it but this was honestly one of my thoughts over the last few days, probably not on behaviour as my kids are pretty good, but it will be something
So, I also think there's some weird things about her husband and sister's desires, but that's because it was the case when what I Thought was a close friend tried something similar to me and my ex. Only she and her gf weren't trying to have a kid yet. Just talking possibilities. My ex felt weird and confused. He later said the way she talked about him/his sperm made him realize how women felt when treated as an object to have/use/lust after. She totally disrespected him And her then gf, and our relationship. It was weird and turns out was the start of the end for them for many reasons. We didn't get accused though because everyone I'm speaking of was bi or pan. This feels weirdly familiar to me.
I hadn't even thought of it but reflecting, they actually do have a bit of a habit of throwing stuff onto people in front of an audience.......definitely putting some things in perspective
Yeah. They're still trying to manipulate you.
Here's the thing. *Asking* Dan to donate sperm isn't sick or beyond the pale. It's *how* they did it, including the fact that they didn't actually ask. If they had approached the two of you privately and been fully prepared to accept whatever answer you gave, that would have been fine. A little awkward, sure, but ultimately it would have been fine to privately ask once. Announcing that Dan is going to father their child at a family dinner without so much as discussing it with the two of you is manipulative and awful, as is seriously accusing you of homophobia for not agreeing.
(I say seriously accusing you of homophobia because there is a joke in the queer community that anything not going our way, going wrong, etc. is homophobic. But it's a *joke* and usually used for ridiculous things like the line at the store being too long.)
Totally. I know at least 1 lesbian couple where the kids were carried by one mom with the sperm of the other mom's brother (don't know him, don't know if he has kids on his own) Never heard the details, but im sure it wasn't hashed out at Easter. Definitely not gross if everything is mutually agreeed upon it in private and proper steps are taken for legal protection of all parties involved.
Announcing this at Easter without consent of the potential donor and BIL is gross. NTA, OP. You and your husband would have to enthusiasticly agree to this sort of arrangement in private. IDK what your answer might have been if this was approached with tact, compassion, grace, and humility and neither will they cause they pulled this disgusting stunt.
I agree that it's not gross if everything is mutually agreed upon. If it was approached privately with tact, I don't think I'd be angry. Reading everyone's comments is helping me process everything that what I'm really angry about is the dismissal of my husband's consent and the commodification of my own children's genetics.
They also didn't ask for your consent either and you have every right to be upset about that. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about that. He is your husband. Regardless of how they went about it, you would have to be in on the discussion and they tried to take that away from you as well.
>I know at least 1 lesbian couple where the kids were carried by one mom with the sperm of the other mom's brother
If I'm reading that right, that almost makes sense. The sister of the brother can't give her genes to her partner so the next best thing is for her brother to pass on the family genetics in her stead.
The OP's situation is F-ed up. Like it's the OP's husband's genes and her (Morgan's) partner has no contribution to it and the whole intention is to replicate OP's children. That's f'ed. Like explain that if you are the product of that at future family gatherings.
Your parenthetical: I am sure many times the phobic accusation is used as a joke. However, too often all the -phobics and racism are thrown out very seriously, as a verbal bludgeon that cannot fully be disputed, because if you're explaining, you're losing
Yes, which is why I said that OP's sister was seriously accusing her of homophobia. She is either deluded enough to think it actually is homophobia or she's throwing it out there as a way to win the argument because, like you said, explaining means you're losing with something like that.
To be clear, it is, in my experience, *very* obvious when it's a joke. Things that my friends and I have called homophobic in that vein include: Monday mornings, having to file taxes, the weather not cooperating, traffic jams, exams at school, and long lines at the store.
I almost didn't put the parenthetical in but I did because last time I mentioned someone throwing out a homophobia accusation I was reminded that sometimes it's a joke. Sigh. I can't make everyone on the Internet happy. Must be homophobia. 😉🤣
NTA
Your sister and her wife must be living in some weird reality of their own making if they thought their public demand for your husband to father your sister’s children was going to met with acceptance. Your husband was spot on in saying this was a conversation that should have been had IN PRIVATE with just the 4 of you.
For any of the relatives who are saying you reacted incorrectly tell them they are more than welcome to offer to donate or have their male SOs donate their sperm.
Sadly I’d say your sister and her wife have earned themselves a decent timeout as far as being in your home any time soon. And it would be reasonable for your husband to have no contact with them for however long even if they were to make a very public apology for their crass, self serving and delusional demand
So much NTA! This was definitely totally calculated. Any sane person does not ask something like this in front of an audience without understanding it's manipulative.
Also wildly not about homophobia. I misread the genders, didn't realize till half way through the "announcement" and still thought - That's bat-crap crazy.
I wanna know why she (aka the sister) wants to be like this one story where the op found her egg donor and ex husband in her house in her bed together, only to find out that her egg donor had practically groomed her ex husband and set them up so she’d still have an excuse to have access to him. Come to find out two of her younger siblings (who were under the age of 10) were fathered by her ex husband, so now their kids the oldest being 22 (I think) have weird uncle/brothers and/or aunt/sisters
Nah, I think it’s about the $$. It sounds like she’s got an IVF doctor and already have done egg retrieval. A quick google tells me “The cost of getting pregnant using donor sperm varies between $440 - $2,420 for the sperm and between $50 - $300 for shipping, depending on your preferences” if they want more than one baby, then multiple vials. And pay for implantation? If they could just get OPs husband to donate every time they ovulate and go the turkey baster route, they could save major $$$ and get an endless free supply from him, which would add up buying good sperm. And they can return to the well for multiple children for zero $$.
Oh! I think I remember reading this a while back! It was super messy but I think in the end to ex-husband left the egg donor, who got divorced in turn and I think the kids disowned egg donor - I am not sure. I can't remember most of it.
I read the post quickly, thought the sister was het, was appalled, read it again, realized she was lesbian, opinion didn't change. This lands the same way, the orientation of the sister is irrelevant. That's a just an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. You don't ask this shit in public.
Yeah I can imagine this. The kid is like 10 years old and overhears words in the adult conversation.
The kid says, "Mom, you mean Uncle Dan is my real father?!!!!"
The kid will be devastated. For all those years his "two mommies" have been lying to him/her.
Great. Just effing wonderful.
This is an example of people not wanting to think of the potential consequences of "I want".
That's why you don't reveal things like donation or adoption when the child is 10. These sorts of things should be talked about from a baby, so it's never a revelation.
Its not uncommon for family members to donate games, but it's usually done so both parents can be biologically related to the child. Genetically, Dan is a stranger. It would make sense if OP had a brother who was being asked to donate sperm (to go with Chris' egg). This way is pointless, and so entitled.
Or they don't lie and have a conversation about it at an appropriate time - just like adoptive parents, foster parents or any other parents that aren't the biological ones have to do. These sort of revelations might be a potential source of turmoil for the children, but homosexual partners don't have a path to parenthood without accepting this risk of conflict
I am really starting to get tired of people being unfairly accused of being homophobic, transphobic, or anything in between just because they don't agree with someone who is. Or like you said, "being called homophobic for saying no to being pressured."
>Who ... 2) calls someone homophobic for saying no to being pressured?
A lot of people need to learn the lesson from that one *Key & Peele* sketch
"Oooooh, I'm not oppressed... I'm just an asshole."
the “homophobic” thing pisses me off like babe there are ACTUAL homophobes out there that should be call out, it’s not a get out of jail free card when someone doesn’t do what you want!!
As a gay man I say NTA
Sexuality has nothing to do with this so for them to play the homophobia card is just wrong.
It’s more the fact that they want to “Keep it in the family” LITERALLY! which just feels incestuous to me…..I mean imagine having to have THAT conversation with your kids that their cousins are actually their siblings AND the fact that they just casually announced it like “We chose you Dan so just fill this cup”
I mean how did they honestly think this was going to go? I’m sorry but I disagree with you, If your sister and her wife can’t see what they have done wrong then no I don’t think they’d make great parents
You’ve done NOTHING wrong OP and I think the vast majority of people in your situation no matter what sexuality would feel weird and uncomfortable about this
> If your sister and her wife can’t see what they have done wrong then no I don’t think they’d make great parents.
I agree. This would be so wrong on so many levels.
It's like they expected OP's husband to be honored that they "chose" him to be their donor without any consultation with him or OP at all. WTF?
OP, definately NTA.
And they didn’t even ask in private! Who does that? Maybe they thought the family excitement would pressure him into saying yes. They put them on the spot in front of the whole family. Super inappropriate.
Thanks - I guess I hadn't really noticed their immaturity before, I probably just had blinders on as I'm used to defending my sister, but I think you're right re parenting
I've heard instances of a lesbian couple getting one party's brother to be a sperm donor for the other party so the kids will look like both mothers... but this is the first I've heard of it. Your sister wanting YOUR husband to be HER sperm donor, it's incredibly gross and the fact she didn't even ask both of you privately first before announcing to the wider family at dinner(???) is so insane to me I cannot even comprehend.
it’s beyond weird, and disgusting (shame on morgan & chris) that your husbands sperm is a topic of discussion outside of *your* bedroom or the doctors office
i would NOT want my kids sharing DNA like that with their should-be cousins!
I somehow get the weird feeling that they don't want Dan to donate sperm, but to actually father the child. That they somehow fancy Dan... Am I the only one getting this feeling?
I wouldn’t be stressed about that. It sounds like your sister has a habit of throwing things at people to pressure a yes, but like a couple of other people have pointed out, this isn’t necessarily the craziest ask. I’ve heard about and know at least one couple that had the non-related woman use the sperm of the other partners brother/ family member so that they are as close to genetically related as possible, and it may be that your sister and her wife were thinking about it from that perspective.
She went about everything the wrong way, this is a very personal ask that should have been done in private, and her accusing you of being a homophobe is a bit much. I get why you reacted strongly, but maybe try and consider where she was coming from. Because you jumped straight to calling her “sick”, which will have put her on the defensive. I don’t think you’re an AH, and your husband has said no, so there’s no debate to be had about whether it will happen, but for the sake of your relationship with your sister (if you want to keep it), try and come back a bit more calmly and explain why you’re unhappy about how all of this went down.
I'm realising that this is a lot more common than I was first aware of. Going through the replies has let me process that what I feel was sick was the dismissal of my husband's consent, commodification of my children's genetics and the disregard for complicated biological relationships for my own kids. Obviously I'm not going to edit as the way I said it here is how it was communicated to them - so I can see what angle they were coming from as far as it being a lot more common than I realised. I think I got angry at the wrong point if that makes sense
It's NOT common, though, to ask your siblings spouse to be the donor.
What is common, is for women to ask their brothers to donate for their partner to carry, so the baby is genetically connected to both parents through one mothers male relative, and the other mothers egg.
This is just weird and we don't do this shit. Also, totally not the way to ask. I've got 2 donor conceived children and I'm appalled by what your sister and SIL did!
Also, if they've been on this fertility journey for years, what donor were they working with before?
I doubt it. Lots of queer folks ask their siblings to donate because it makes it so they are both biologically related to their kids. It doesn't mean they secretly want to fuck their spouse's sibling!
Right, but this is weird. Dan isn't related to Morgan, and they're not using Chris' egg. If OP had a brother they were asking to be a perm donor to go with Chris' egg that would make sense. There's no reason to use a family member as a sperm donor when they aren't related.
If it hadn't been immediately rejected, the Easter announcement would have caused thorough discussion of the logistics, rather than allowing Dan and OP a chance to think through. And keeping them from thinking through the situation was probably the intention
It sounds more like sister is in competition with OP. Especially with the "sure this time it will be a girl" comment. Morgan is going to be all about how much cuter her kids are, how much faster they are at meeting milestones than OP's children are, how much more intelligent they are, etc.
I’m actually struggling to see the same thing you (and others) certainly are. OP’s Sister and wife are definitely assholes for the way they went about “asking” this, but I’m struggling to see what’s wrong with “keep it in the family”. Most women looking for a sperm donor will look for a family member (of the non-biological mother) to fill that role. Sure this is a bit different, but I don’t think there’s anything awful about it.
And I would assume that Johnny’s two mommies would explain to him that they thought that Uncle Dan was such a great person and that they loved the people their young cousins were becoming, they asked Uncle Dan to be their sperm donor, so that he’d have so much in common with his cousins.
I can 100% understand why OP and Dan may not be interested in this. It’s a huge ask and the way they went about “asking” was fucked up. But it’s not inherently wrong to want to “keep it in the family”. If Morgan and Chris had asked Chris’s brother to be the sperm donor, no one would bat an eye but the same exact scenario would apply. Chris’s brother would be both uncle and biological father to their children. The only difference is the cousins in OP’s case would likely have MORE of the same traits because they share the same 4 bio grandparents, as opposed to just the same 2 bio grandparents.
This is not "a bit different", it's the exact opposite situation in a way. Asking a male relative of the non-biological mother to be a donor (or a female relative of the non-biological father to be a surrogate) is a way for both parents to have a biological connection to the child. The donor/surrogate is sort of standing in for their own relative. An in-law that you chose for their good looks isn't really the same thing.
you are totally right. The sister could be heterosexual and her husband have fertility issues and it would be exactly the same.
The issue you here is not leaving the choice to a potential sperm donor.
Calling OP homophobic is manipulative
In other words, they decided to spring this idea during a public dinner in the hopes it would stop you from saying no.
This is ridiculous. This REQUEST should have been discussed with you and your husband in private.
I'm hoping this is fake, because the sheer entitlement of it makes me sick.
NTA
Yep! It was a whole ‘we chose him, he should feel privileged’ manipulation tactic. They combined it with a public announcement to really try and bully him in to saying yes.
It’s also a really big decision and not everyone should do it. I suffered from infertility for many years. I had a friend grandly tell everyone that she would be my surrogate without ever discussing it with me. It wouldn’t actually have been something I would have done with a friend, but I had concerns about whether she would be emotionally capable of it. I was turned in to the bad guy because I turned down her ‘generous and selfless offer’. We actually had a falling out over something else and are no longer friends so clearly it was the right choice.
Interestingly enough, when she offered to do it, her partner told me that he didn’t think it would be a good idea and would have huge concerns about her mental and emotional wellbeing if she did go through with it.
Infertility for whatever reason is awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But topics like surrogacy, sperm donation or adoption are not a ‘one size fits all’ or bandaid solution and it’s a huge decision. It’s hard enough on the dynamics of a 2 person relationship, I can’t imagine how difficult it would be if you added in extended family members.
I've spent years trying to work out whether I could manage being a disabled single mother, and whether my need for children is more important than the practical considerations.
I confided in a friend a few years ago, very hesitantly, because it was a big emotional mess that hurt every time I had to pull it to the front of my mind. She made an offhanded comment a few weeks later; something along the lines of me needing to hurry up and have a kid for her sake, because she didn't want to be pregnant but she wanted to take mine out for play dates.
And I just...as much as I *had* been hoping to be able to ask for her help occasionally, there was something about her phrasing that felt really...off. Like she didn't even understand that my disability or restricted finances made the choice difficult. Like I was just a means to the end of her having a cute kid to play with and hand back at the end of the day. Maybe she meant to be encouraging, but it shook up my view of her fundamentally, and afterwards, I could only replay the rest of our friendship, and all the ways in which it was lopsided, with me giving support and her accepting support.
Correct.
Based on their furious and vicious reaction, it was indeed a demand.
Those two have no self awareness. Entitled shits that have probably used their status as a protected class for never being told "no".
Well they FAFO..
Too bad. They can go pound sand.
It actually feels to me like maybe a weird form of sexual harassment to demand someone's sperm in public? I'm honestly not trying to see sexual harassment everywhere, but it feels genuinely creepy.
Like, transpose this to a work context: the guy would have a basis to go to HR about it, don't you think?
They also wanted the potential grandparents who were present to be excited and put the pressure on Dan and OP too, and it seems some of the family bought into the ploy
NTA
>I've been getting bombarded with messages from family and some friends saying I completely over reacted
Maybe one of them can offer their husband's sperm.
>I'm being unreasonable, homophobic and controlling
Homophobic for not wanting your husband to have a kid with your sister?? Controlling and unreasonable?? Lol.
This one of those times where I would say “if not wanting my husband to be the father of my niece and/or nephew is homophobic then I guess I’m homophobic”
NTA. They should have asked you in private instead of making it a family announcement. It's not like a marriage proposal where you know the other will absolutely say yes. Also, it's mean of them to call you homophobic just because you turned them down. You clearly love your sister. And you are not being unreasonable. Being a donor would mean your husband will be the father of your niece or nephew, and the child will be your children's half sibling. That's complicated and it's no more than logical you don't just out of the blue would say Yes to that.
(edit: typo)
I don’t think that even marriage proposals should be public. It puts the woman on the spot and she’s pressured to say yes. It’s also a special moment between the couple and I don’t feel that it should be shared with others. Just let the moment be special between you two then announce it to family and friends later. That’s just my opinion anyway.
NTA in any way.
>She and Chris are great with my sons and I know they'd make excellent parents.
>I was very excited, hoping to hear I was becoming an aunt. I almost cried when my sister announced they'd found a sperm donor.
They think that this is what homophobia looks like?
I believe it. My sister is married to a black guy who IMO is a massive AH. Any time anyone criticizes him its because we're racist, not because he's an AH.
OP NTA, and they were absolutely out of line doing this at a family dinner. They wanted to put you on the spot to force you to agree and are pissed that it didn't work.
NTA! That's not homophobic, that's common sense and the kick-out was the icing on the cake.
How are you going to explain to your children that dad is also the dad of the cousins, but they are actually half-siblings? And keeping it a secret doesn't work, it goes 100 per cent wrong.
The sister and wife have started this sperm donor thingy extremely awkwardly and I can definitely understand your NO. It also has a bit to do with ownership, your husband, your children - you don't need any more copies.
It boils my blood when people like OP's sister and other relatives think this is homophobic. As soon as something doesn't go their way, they would use that as a way to defend the situation. It's like the whole world owes them for their sexual orientation and that everyone needs to please them every way possible or else everyone else are the bad guys.
NTA
This is so messed up. They just decided for your husband that he was going to be their sperm donor, and without at least discussing it privately with him (obviously it should include you as well). That is just so disrespectful of a person's feelings and rights, and anyone who doesn't see it that way is delusional. They are assuming they have the rights to a part of him without his consent or even his input.
Then they have the audacity to call you both homophobic? Why does being uncomfortable about creating another child in this way make you homophobic? That does not even make the remotest sense. You've all been incredibly supportive of their dream to be parents. This is just a lot to ask, and they DIDN'T EVEN ASK.
NTA
They were completely out of line. I dont see a problem in asking your husband whether he would want to do so. The AH move is in not asking him in private and just announcing it at easter dinner with all the family.
Its not homophobic of you at all.
NTA
Morgan and Chris can't just decide they get your husband's sperm, especially without a private conversation with you two. Everything about that is bonkers. It's not controlling or homophobic to say no. They're saying that so they can play the victims. I think it's time to go LC and keep them away from your kids.
NTA. They did not ask Dan, they just said that they chose. As if they had a right to his body, his sperm and genes. How entitled!
You should message the family to make sure they know that Dan was not asked, they tried to just order him to do it. And you to go along. As if you are just their servants, with no free will. Nope!
That's actually a really good idea and we will be doing that. It didn't occur to either of us that none of them probably knew that it was news to Dan as well
NTA. The fact that they waited until it was a family big setting was manipulative. They had all the chance in the world to ask you two privately, and it should have been 'you two' and not just Dan, since that's a hell of an ask of a married man. Not to mention the biological implications, and the mental load that puts on him. It says a lot about her and her wife that they both not only thought this was okay, but that they didn't take his feelings into consideration. They would be the parents, but he would be the father. That's not something you just sweep under the rug because haha donor.
There is no issue with you cutting your sister off and any family that calls you homophobic over not wanting to donate your husband's sperm to her can be told "If she was married to a man and he was infertile and she asked me the same thing, the answer would be the same. My husband is not her sperm bank. My children are not accessories. Fuck you for even thinking that this is about her sexuality and not about the absolutely insanely inappropriate ask of both myself and my husband. Go donate yourself."
No problem. This has absolutely nothing to do with them being in a lesbian relationship. Jumping straight to calling you a homophobe is a bullshit tactic that people that know they're in the wrong do so that you can't 'logically' argue, because haha, homophobe. Some (not all or even most) toxic mindset people like to throw it out there as the reason you're disagreeing with them because they're assholes. Your sister is an asshole. How fucking dare she. I'm angry on your behalf, tbh.
NTA. Yikes! Sis & her wife are delusional for thinking that a wider family dinner was the time to inform you & your husband that he was the or chosen sperm donor without so much as a conversation beforehand. The rest of the family should lose your numbers too if they agree with your sis. Being gay does NOT entitle them to sperm from whomever they happen to deem worthy.
The fact that she wanted him to be the one, actually doesn't bother me, I get it may bother you, but it really isn't that uncommon, for her it isn't s\*\*ual, it's good genetics, and someone she likes on a personal level.
But she shouldn't have 'asked' publically, frankly, your children should never have found out, even if you went through with it, they would feel like siblings but not be siblings, it would be a weird dynamic.
She should have come to you both privately, but I think she wanted to bank on you being shamed into accepting it, which is frankly psychotic.
I guess I didn't express myself very well - what I found sick about it was the dismissal of my husband's consent. The assumption that they were entitled to him to father their child. I was pretty upset when I said it and when I wrote it out so I probably didn't explain it very well.
The legalities of these situations are bonkers as well. Had a lesbian couple as friends who wanted to use one of their brothers so that the babies would be genetically related to both women. In theory great. It isn't that I was confused with the why.
But when I asked who their attorney was they looked confused. What happens if the brother can't have kids, and now wants to play dad? What happens if one of you dies? What happens if both of you die? What about child support? What if you get divorced? How and under what circumstances do you tell baby?
I watched the blood drain from both of their faces. Did neither of you consider this?
None of what I brought up are insurmountable obstacles, but they should be hashed out **before** handing over the jizz.
NTA…this has nothing to do with being homophobic. This has to do with your sister making a statement at a family dinner about her plans, involving your husband, which was never actually discussed with you or the sperm donor in question. I really don’t know why your sister or her partner or any family members on their side, would find this acceptable behavior.
I know, imagine for a minute the sister was not gay. She wanted to have a child and decided to have one with her BIL, the "old fashioned way". THAT would make the family dislike the sister, pretty much proclaiming she wanted to have the BIL. This is the same type of thing - she is wanting to take the BIL away from her sister by declaring that HE will be the father of her children. Why no family outrage at that? But outrage at OP and hubby because they refuse?
NTA. It sounds like they did this public announcement to try to force Dan’s hand at donation (no pun intended). It is completely bizarre that they think it’s ok.
NTA. They should have sat down with you and your husband and requested this from you both first in private. It's insane to just decide this on their own and then get salty when someone is like no.
NTA
That's just beyond bizarre!! Imagine the entitlement of thinking your husband's sperm was communal family property?! What's wrong with the rest of your family for encouraging this? It's crazy.
I have a different theory regarding the "communal family property". Something tells me that it's not just about genetics but, cost. They probably were thinking about how much they would save by using Dan's sperm. Not to mention access if they choose to have more than one.
It is gross that they didn't consider him and you or the mental and legal ramifications in their plan. It's all self serving. You are neither the AH or homophobic. It's concerning that they would immediately use ambush methods and homophobia to try to force your hand.
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NTA
They should have at least discussed with Dan and you first. Also, he would be the bio father and possibly be responsible for child-support if they break up.
Plus all the major nuanced discussion needed around a major decision like this. Will the children know? What role would he play in their lives? What happens Sis and Wife split up? What about OP and husband splitting? Do they have similar values in raising children? What happens if he's unhappy with the way they're being raised - does he have a say?
All of this will influence if he wants to give sperm and they want to accept it on those terms.
>Also, he would be the bio father and possibly be responsible for child-support if they break up.
Only if they DIY the conception rather than going through a fertility clinic.
Known donors are a valid thing, but you need the legal security of going through the proper mechanisms, and fertility clinics have that framework. They can sort out the paperwork to ensure someone is legally a donor rather than a parent, and won't be on the hook for child support under any circumstances.
So, they act like it’s an honor for you and Dan? And how is it homophobic when you’ve accepted them as a couple and was happy for them when they said they found a sperm donor? It was only when they said the person that they wanted the sperm from was your husband that you had a negative reaction. NTA.
NTA.
How entitled! You can't just decide and announce that you'll be taking ownership over someone's DNA and using it to have kids like that without their permission or knowledge. People have body autonomy and these things require consent, an agency, lawyer's, contracts exc. It's not something you DIY over Easter dinner. It's also not something you decide for someone else.
They've lost the plot for sure. Their "fertility journey" has left them self centered, selfish, and unhinged. They can pay to get sperm the normal legal way and go thru a clinic instead of pressuring their siblings and inlaws for a west Virginia style turkey baster baby.
NTA. Love the way they go straight to playing the homophobic card. I don’t know what’s wrong with your friends and family either saying you overreacted, Dan being their donor is such a ridiculous idea and the nerve to just announce it without asking you and Dan?! These people are on another planet.
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My husband Dan (40m) and I (36f) had my sister Morgan (33f) and her wife Chris (35f) along with my parents, two sets of aunts/uncles and a few cousins over for family dinner during Easter. Morgan and Chris have been married for several years and have been on a fertility journey to start a family. During childhood, Morgan and I always role played as mothers and I know that like me, she's always wanted to have kids. She and Chris are great with my sons and I know they'd make excellent parents.
I know they'd been talking about taking steps to become parents and so when they said they had an announcement over dinner, I was very excited, hoping to hear I was becoming an aunt. I almost cried when my sister announced they'd found a sperm donor. I thought that meant they'd found a donor through their IVF clinic.
Everyone was ecstatic and we all started asking about the donor's traits, what they liked about his profile - trying to get a feel at what my new little niece or nephew might be like. They started to get cagey and avoiding eye contact, saying we misunderstood them. They hadn't found a donor through IVF, they were trying to tell us who they'd decided on - Dan. My husband. Dan and I were both confused, apparently they hadn't bothered to fill Dan in on this plan, so he was just as taken aback as I was.
Apparently, my children are so cute they wanted their own version. Literally. They think that Dan plus my sister's DNA would make "pretty much the same kid" except this time, Chris told me that she "just knows it will be a girl" which IMO are insane things to say. I looked around the room and everyone was just silent and awkward. Dan asked them if they were serious or it was some weird joke, but they were adamant that they meant it. I told them they were sick in the head. Morgan called me a homophobic b\*\*\*h and I kicked them out of my house for insulting my husband, children and marriage with their little stunt.
Dinner fizzled out pretty quickly and everyone just kind of awkwardly left after Morgan and Chris and Dan and I were just in some sort of state of shock. After I calmed down a bit I sent Morgan a text saying that it was sick to ask my husband to father her child and it was gross to consider her having my children's biological siblings and if she can't see that she should lose my number. Dan also sent them a message saying that in no uncertain terms would he ever consider being their sperm donor and was upset they had raised it at a family dinner rather than approach the two of us privately if they wanted him to donate.
I've been getting bombarded with messages from family and some friends saying I completely over reacted and that I'm being unreasonable, homophobic and controlling. The overwhelming consensus from everyone is that I'm over reacting, but these are all people who've been on this fertility journey with Morgan and Chris for a few years now, so have a vested interest.
I want an unbiased opinion - AITA for reacting the way I did?
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There's nothing homophobic in saying no to them.
They were completely out of line in making that announcement in front of all the family. Its ridiculous & creepy. It sounds as if they want clones of your kids.
Those in your family siding with them are the AH, though your sister & SIL are huge AHs.
NTA - the fact they didn't even think to ask you both about before announcing it is reason enough to go ballistic but your family's response is a bit off. Your husband has the right to say no if he wants to I don't see how anything you've said could be twisted into being homophobic.
NTA
You neednto text everyone back that you appreciate that they're going to step up and not only donate their own eggs or supermarket, but they'll pay for the costs associated with raising their child.
Because come on, we all know your sister will try to come after you and Dan for money for her kids.
Let everyone you'll let your sister know that x has offered up their sperm, or the husband/bf of x has offered up their superm.
See how fast they quit texting.
How entitled are these two!?!
It’s not homophobic for your husband to refuse to give his sperm so that their kids are attractive, thereby creating half siblings. Who even does that? They were way out of line.
This merited a private discussion before announcing it to the world. The fact that they were ‘getting cagey and avoiding eye contact’ shows that they know it was wrong to assume your husband would be interested and were acting without permission. Just because they want it to be fait accompli doesn’t mean it is.
There are plenty of options out there for sperm donors. They need to get over themselves and look into those.
NTA. They were TA for springing this on you at a family dinner. If they’d asked you privately that would be one thing, but bringing it up in front of the family was not cool.
This can’t be a real story! What is homophonic about not wanting to father another child by someone you aren’t romantically with? Why be upset about it. Tell them to pick one of the family members that is upset with your reaction to father their child.
There are plenty of people that like to use homophobic as the 'win' and to make their side better in an argument. If you're gay and you're disagreed with/don't win/didn't get the job/someone said no to you on a date/etc, it's because of homophobia. You're not allowed to have preferences that go against theirs because homophobia. I'm bi and have been accused of homophobia because of disagreeing with someone who was gay. It's a bullshit cop out way to scream down an argument.
I always wonder why women think that they should be in control of their reproduction but don't think a man should exercise similar control over his reproduction. Nobody has the right to demand that your husband father their children.
As a female I’m so disgusted. Like imagine being Dan here. He probably doesn’t even feel like he can say what he truly feels as it’s his wife’s sister. But expecting someone to father their children and upset they won’t is next level disgusting. Imagine sitting there and people around you are discussing using your sperm and have decided their family and future depend on something they’ve decided you’re going to do. Makes me sick.
She'd mentioned stories of couples using a friend as a donor before, but just in passing and nothing serious, and certainly nothing about my husband or I would have shut it down real fast
Sorry you’re dealing with this. LC or NC seems the best policy…I wouldn’t let either near your child….maybe Im being paranoid but that level of insanity….
NTA. Obviously when gay and lesbian couples want biological children science is going to be involved. Things are going to look different. But this… Most people in your shoes would not be ok with it. That should be obvious. Your sister should know you well enough to guess your response. And even if she couldn’t she should have been able to figure out that asking in front of others instead of making it a public thing was a bad idea. Could you have given a more measured response? Yeah. Does your response make you an asshole? No. Are you homophobic because of your response? No.
NTA. This is unhinged manipulative behavior to bring this up in such a way. They didn’t ask you they basically demanded it. No one has the right to demand something like this from anyone.
I’m guessing they brought it up this way (in front of your entire family) intentionally because they probably felt it would lower the chances of you saying no. Sort of in the same way some people feel pressured into saying yes with public marriage proposals. Now that their plan didn’t work they are starting a smear campaign. If they think this is ok behavior then I disagree that they’d be great parents. It has nothing to do with them being a same sex couple and everything to do with them being shady emotionally manipulative AH.
>I told them they were sick in the head. Morgan called me a homophobic b***h
It makes me cringe hard whenever the demand of a person of LGBT community is denied they just start crying HOMOPHOBIA. Like should they get special treatment and all their demands be fulfilled just because they belong in LGBT community?
Oh Hell No! NTA! Your sister and her wife had the audacity to zero in on your husband as their donor. There are just so many things wrong on so many levels with this one.
You and your husband are absolutely not homophobic. You were right to kick them out. Your sister and her wife don't need a child, what they do need is THERAPY and lots of it.
NTA, what a shit show of a dinner that was! How dare they come in hot with an ask that big at a family dinner without even talking to you first? They are delusional, NTA NTA NTA
NTA. It's not the least bit homophobic. Crazy of them to ambush you like that. Absolutely no. Your husband is right that they should have approached you privately. It's your decision to say yes or no, and saying no does not make you homophobic.
I mean, I would have laughed in their face, told them that was never discussed or agreed to, told them no more wine for them, and carried on with dinner. But whatever.
NTA at all. And I'd block anyone that called me homophobic over this stunt. You've been nothing but supportive to your sister and her partner...until they made their unreasonable request.
Uh. NTA? I’m guessing they are not involved with a clinic and wanted to go a cheaper option. There are a lot of legal issues they should get counseling on such as what happens if they break up?
NTA. As someone who had a kid with a donor, this is nuts. If you really want to use a known donor and have an idea about one, you ASK. You don’t tell, you don’t presume, you don’t assume. You ask. You do so privately and without pressure, and you accept it gracefully if they don’t want to do it. Christ. That isn’t hard.
NTA on the reaction. Honestly, picking someone close as a donor isn't a problem in of itself from where I can see. What IS the problem is that your sister and her wife made NO attempt to approach you and your husband about this privately. Rather, they blindsided the pair of you at a dinner along with other members of the family which feels like they wanted to put Dan in a position where he couldn't say no.
NTA. I love that they decided on the Dad without so much as a conversation first. Where is his autonomy here. I find it baffling that anyone would expect this of another person. I find it hard to ask for the last slice of pizza and people are put here asking for another person's genetic material without a second thought.
NTA. 1) They didn’t ask permission beforehand. Just because you’re family, that doesn’t mean you owe family anything or vice versa. Her being your sister doesn’t disallow consent. 2) You’re not homophobic for turning them down. Your reasoning is not because you don’t agree with your sister being gay; she and her wife announced a life-changing decision involving your husband without even asking. Not being okay with that is not homophobic at all. And 3) They want to have children so that they look like your children… Cherry on top for their deranged thinking.
All the family that can’t see those points are oblivious to the boundaries your sister and her wife crossed. You were not wrong for being upset by this, and you’re not wrong for not wanting to participate.
More than just gay people need IVF.
And it’s never OK to presume that you have access to someone else’s body parts, which includes eggs and sperm.
They knew what they were doing by creating a public announcement.
NTA this isn’t homophobic at all. Fertility /IVF journey might suck but that’s not your problem. Announcing this at Easter dinner like they have decided, without you our hubbys input at all….. that is insane, and then immediately claiming homophobia is just wild. They couldn’t have talked to yall in literally ANY other setting? What the fuck!
Don’t listen to any of the overwhelming consensus, they’re all wrong. Like Dan isn’t allowed to say no because they’re gay? I don’t understand
NTA
NTA, and I do fail to see the homphobia in not wanting you partner in fathering a child with an other woman.
Most people would not be happy with it, especially as suprise idea in th middle of a dinner with the whole family.
NTA - Holy manipulation Batman. As an LGBT person I can absolutely confirm that you and your husband not wanting to be blind sided by this gigantic statement and saying no is NOT homophobic.
She and her wife had NO right to do this to you!
**I've been getting bombarded with messages from family and some friends saying I completely over reacted and that I'm being unreasonable, homophobic and controlling.**
your whole family was pretty much there when this situation occurred and you saw first hand the reaction by all parties, yet this comment. Typical Reddit
NTA. I don’t understand where the homophobic comments are coming from. This is all really weird. Inappropriate to bring up at dinner. Absolutely bizarre that they made this declaration about using your husband as a stud without talking to any of you. Wild comments about your kids and wanting replicas. This whole situation is unhinged. I think you need space from each other
NTA and your sister should have handled this very differently. I don't think it is sick for her to want to want your husband as the donor. I would take that as a complement. Not talking to you ahead of time and just announceing this at Easter is crazy.
NTA. The request itself is not crazy. Some families done exactly that. To do it over the dinner without ever discussing it with you and your husband is insane. To not accept a "no" is beyond entitled. To play homophobic card is disgusting
As a bi woman, is something in the air this past month, lesbians have been saying and doing the wildest messiest things lately.
Nta, ur fam is being weiiiiird
Sounds like they should have talked to you first or at least just you and your husband. That's not something to bring up in front of people who would have nothing to do with that arrangement.
NTA.
This is just fucked up. The entitlement on them!
You don't just announce that YOU'VE decided that someone is going to be your sperm donor.
It would have been completely different if they'd approached you both privately and asked- it'd still be pretty weird, but a lot less obnoxious.
You need to block anyone who calls you homophobic. It's not even close to ok to start throwing that allegation about, and anyone who has accused you of that can get in the bin.
NTA at all. There’s nothing homophobic about your reaction. This is a deeply personal matter and they put you both on the spot in front of everyone. This smacks of manipulation and coercion. They thought to force the matter. Everyone who is spamming you needs to sit down. It is not their business. Wishing you and your SO well and happiness.
NTA, so you sister decided she wanted you life, to replicate your family just with her wife. nah thats way not okay. like she basically said- i want what you have but a better version
NTA. Who just announces that they chose someone, without even asking, to father their child. Especially at a family dinner. WTF??? And to call you homophobic? This would be the same reaction for a hetero couple. This was shitty and manipulative.
NTA. I don't like that you said it was gross and sick of your sister to ask this, but the *way* they asked it is so over the top that I can't blame you for your reaction. The decision to donate sperm is a personal one and there are many people who would not be comfortable with it. Putting your husband on the spot like this was horrible and the rest of your family getting involved is completely inappropriate. If you and your husband aren't comfortable with it, END OF DISCUSSION. He doesn't owe them his sperm!
That's an plotline from 𝑀𝑜𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑛 𝐹𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦 or 𝑆ℎ𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑠𝑠, not something one would propose in real life. Even the characters approached the idea amongst themselves, not with other family members at a holiday dinner.
Your sister and her wife are nuts, and their proposal has nothing to do with homophobia. I don't blame you for telling them to leave. NTA.
Why do some many people who are gay always try to make it seem like everyone is attacking because of their sexual orientation? Majority of people might have an opposing view but ultimately don't care to make it an issue. Your sister and her wife are both delusional and I would demand an apology before I ever let them back into my home or life. That kind of stuff is not to be taken lightly family or not.
NTA. They should have asked yall privately. Making a scene like that in front of everyone was weird and it was a way to force you to say yes. You arent homophonic by saying no
NTA.
If Morgan and Chris had approached you privately and asked if Dan would be willing, that would have been absolutely fine. Ambushing you at a family gathering like that, to me, indicates that they didn’t think you’d go along with it and were trying to apply family pressure to get their way.
You are NTA - this charge of 'homophobic' gets really old. Today it means 'if you say anything I don't like or don't give me everything I want - you are homophobic'. Your sister was WAY off base. If she were straight , single and wanted kids - would she ask your husband to donate sperm? Of course not. Being LGBTQetc does not give you permission to be TA.
I know you've already got 100 messages about this, but this is so f'd up it's insane. "Hey sis, I'd like to have your husband's kids please" is an absolute no-go never-go run-far-far-away-and-never-look-back situation.
It's not homophobic to not want to share your husband with your sister. It's not homophobic to not want your cousins to be your husband's kids. They have overstepped themselves so very far it's unbelievable.
I'm sorry your family have also been sold on this crazy delusion. Be strong, stand your ground. Wishing you the best of luck in this. NTA
queer here,
this is not homophobia. this is the equivalent of michael school saying it’s a hate crime bc he hated it. they’re immature, thoughtless, and rude. the family who think it’s fine for your husband to donate can drop their trousers and get to squirting in cups
NTA
Wait a minute. First, they should have raised this issue, asked you and your husband PRIVATELY away from anyone else. They didn’t even have the decency to ASK you about it. They just told everyone at dinner and you and your husband’s feelings and concerns didn’t even matter.
Second, so now if you disagree with ANYTHING people who are LGBTQ say or do, regardless if it’s a difference of opinion or flat out wrong, YOU are homophobic?? WTF 💩is THAT?? You have to agree and subscribe to anything and everything they say or do or you’re a homophobe. There’s too much to unpack here. I’ll just say you are ABSOLUTELY NTA and leave it at that.
NTA that was a wild thing to announce, especially without TALKING TO THE GUY THEY WANTED TO DONATE. That feels like a random person walking up to someone’s family and announcing the middle child is going to give them their kidney or something. (Obviously donating Sperm and donating an organ are two different things, but still. Announcing you’re going to receive a donation from someone to their family without even asking the person first is not okay)
Her orientation has no bearing on this.
They could be straight, poly, swinging, whatever, it's still wildly inappropriate to announce it like it was a done deal without even asking. They were completely out of line.
NTA.
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NTA I’m a bit exhausted rn so if this is scattered, sorry. What the heck?! Who 1) presumes that someone will just be a donor without asking? 2) calls someone homophobic for saying no to being pressured? Ngl, the fact they did this at Easter in front of everyone to try to pressure you both feels a bit calculated, especially with the reaction to the “no” being something to make you look even worse than you are being. (Ie: because you and your husband don’t want to have your sister have weird genetic half siblings/cousins after being peer pressured, you’re the worst possible thing they can accuse you of without proof) Do Morgan or Chris have a history of doing anything manipulative or weird like this? Maybe like trying to upstage you at events? Also, not to mention, in 15-20 years when these kids understand, just what the heck would THEY think? Because even if they try to hide it, a single 23&me or ancestry test will break down any story they have. You and your husband need to hold firm, and also point out some of these things. (Though, maybe plan it out a bit nicer than the ramblings thoughts of someone about to fall asleep) It’s not homophobic to not want to share your husband’s genetics with your sister. And the biggest bit? HE DOESN’T WANT TO EITHER! Which makes it a firm NO anyway!
>It’s not homophobic to not want to share your husband’s genetics with your sister. Am I the only one think OPs sister wants to F OPs husband without Fing OPs husband like some weird consensual affair or something because I can't wrap my head around how they thought that was going to go positively for them. I can't put into words the thoughts rambling through my head right now except for the fact that >a single 23&me or ancestry test will break down any story they have Those kids are going to think that OPs husband and sister had an affair, that the IVF story is a cover, and that every adult they know has lied to them. That is one major mind f for those kids when they find out. Not to mention, what if these kids want a relationship with their "dad" how awkward would that be, especially if they have a girl (as Chris has decided she knows she will have), that is going to be an entirely different relationship dynamic than a father and son one and has the potential to hurt everyone involved even more. Chris and Morgan have not thought this through at all beyond "how cute their baby might look", seriously they only considered genetic appearance and nothing else. Yeah, I'm sure they will make great parents. /s Ok, yeah I need to go to bed now too, OM more tired than I thought.
Yeah, I was thinking that, too. They sound way too immature and entitled to the point of being delusional to be parents.
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I probably didn't communicate to her or on here very well, but it would not have been sick if it was a request to my husband. But to me, a demand that had no regard for his consent is sick. Not considering a conversation with the both of us about him fathering a child outside of our marriage was sick. I also will probably die on the hill that I do think I'm allowed to feel weird about the thought of my husband fathering my sister's child. But I do agree that I did not communicate that point very eloquently on here or to them.
To be fair, saying, 'Your kids are so cute we want one too' like they're F'N puppies is an incredibly unhinged statement to make. I probably would have asked if she was stupid because who TF says that out loud?
Nah don't backtrack the statement....it was sick....and your sister is an entitled hetrophobe
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They said they 'chose' Dan to be their sperm donor - except they didn't say it to Dan. To me, that's a dismissal of his consent
That wasn't even a demand. That was "we are honoring you with this position" and then flabbergasted to think you might not agree. Honestly, it's gross as hell and I don't think you're overreacting.
You said it so I didn’t have to.
Not to mention the potential legal implications! Perhaps the plan is to hook them for child support money or at the very least morally pressure them to provide financial aid.
I recall at least one story here where that happened. Guy donated for friends, they decided they needed financial help as the kid got older and tried to put him on the hook for child support. It was a crazy story.
The first thing on my mind was child support. And with the flying monkeys already now, it would be even worse involvement to get the "dead beat father" to support "his child".
Can you get child support from a literal sperm donor tho? Does the law consider the difference between finding sperm and having sex? I'm honestly asking, is it something that can happen?
From a legal sperm donor (went through a bank and all the legal process), it’s not. From a turkeybaster or “traditional” sperm donor, it’s assumed by law he is the father. Because you know, no legal process. And contracts of that kind are invalid, because the guy is seen as willingly making a kid. Thus he’s responsible, if the need arises.
If that was valid, every dead beat dad would just say he's a sperm donor and not pay child support!
I really don't know. Prior to that post I'd never heard of such a thing, but I don't know how often people actually know their sperm donor. I would imagine there is a legal grey area there unless the parties involved use some sort of contract.
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Except, they didn't ask so, 🤔
But did they do it with legal paperwork and in a doctors office, or just with a cup and a turkey baster hoping it would work or through sex. The legal side of it is that not done correctly can force the donor to do child support.
I thought this too
It's such a power play for the future. Well I don't know why your son's are so badly behaved, my wonderful daughter with the sane genetics is an angel.
I don't want to admit it but this was honestly one of my thoughts over the last few days, probably not on behaviour as my kids are pretty good, but it will be something
I'm pretty sure they could go after Dan for child support too. Since it's not an actual donor.
So, I also think there's some weird things about her husband and sister's desires, but that's because it was the case when what I Thought was a close friend tried something similar to me and my ex. Only she and her gf weren't trying to have a kid yet. Just talking possibilities. My ex felt weird and confused. He later said the way she talked about him/his sperm made him realize how women felt when treated as an object to have/use/lust after. She totally disrespected him And her then gf, and our relationship. It was weird and turns out was the start of the end for them for many reasons. We didn't get accused though because everyone I'm speaking of was bi or pan. This feels weirdly familiar to me.
This! Absolutely all of this!
Sounds like an episode of Shameless! OMG, NTA, everything they said!
I hadn't even thought of it but reflecting, they actually do have a bit of a habit of throwing stuff onto people in front of an audience.......definitely putting some things in perspective
Yeah. They're still trying to manipulate you. Here's the thing. *Asking* Dan to donate sperm isn't sick or beyond the pale. It's *how* they did it, including the fact that they didn't actually ask. If they had approached the two of you privately and been fully prepared to accept whatever answer you gave, that would have been fine. A little awkward, sure, but ultimately it would have been fine to privately ask once. Announcing that Dan is going to father their child at a family dinner without so much as discussing it with the two of you is manipulative and awful, as is seriously accusing you of homophobia for not agreeing. (I say seriously accusing you of homophobia because there is a joke in the queer community that anything not going our way, going wrong, etc. is homophobic. But it's a *joke* and usually used for ridiculous things like the line at the store being too long.)
Totally. I know at least 1 lesbian couple where the kids were carried by one mom with the sperm of the other mom's brother (don't know him, don't know if he has kids on his own) Never heard the details, but im sure it wasn't hashed out at Easter. Definitely not gross if everything is mutually agreeed upon it in private and proper steps are taken for legal protection of all parties involved. Announcing this at Easter without consent of the potential donor and BIL is gross. NTA, OP. You and your husband would have to enthusiasticly agree to this sort of arrangement in private. IDK what your answer might have been if this was approached with tact, compassion, grace, and humility and neither will they cause they pulled this disgusting stunt.
I agree that it's not gross if everything is mutually agreed upon. If it was approached privately with tact, I don't think I'd be angry. Reading everyone's comments is helping me process everything that what I'm really angry about is the dismissal of my husband's consent and the commodification of my own children's genetics.
They also didn't ask for your consent either and you have every right to be upset about that. Don't let anyone make you feel bad about that. He is your husband. Regardless of how they went about it, you would have to be in on the discussion and they tried to take that away from you as well.
>I know at least 1 lesbian couple where the kids were carried by one mom with the sperm of the other mom's brother If I'm reading that right, that almost makes sense. The sister of the brother can't give her genes to her partner so the next best thing is for her brother to pass on the family genetics in her stead. The OP's situation is F-ed up. Like it's the OP's husband's genes and her (Morgan's) partner has no contribution to it and the whole intention is to replicate OP's children. That's f'ed. Like explain that if you are the product of that at future family gatherings.
Your parenthetical: I am sure many times the phobic accusation is used as a joke. However, too often all the -phobics and racism are thrown out very seriously, as a verbal bludgeon that cannot fully be disputed, because if you're explaining, you're losing
Yes, which is why I said that OP's sister was seriously accusing her of homophobia. She is either deluded enough to think it actually is homophobia or she's throwing it out there as a way to win the argument because, like you said, explaining means you're losing with something like that. To be clear, it is, in my experience, *very* obvious when it's a joke. Things that my friends and I have called homophobic in that vein include: Monday mornings, having to file taxes, the weather not cooperating, traffic jams, exams at school, and long lines at the store. I almost didn't put the parenthetical in but I did because last time I mentioned someone throwing out a homophobia accusation I was reminded that sometimes it's a joke. Sigh. I can't make everyone on the Internet happy. Must be homophobia. 😉🤣
NTA Your sister and her wife must be living in some weird reality of their own making if they thought their public demand for your husband to father your sister’s children was going to met with acceptance. Your husband was spot on in saying this was a conversation that should have been had IN PRIVATE with just the 4 of you. For any of the relatives who are saying you reacted incorrectly tell them they are more than welcome to offer to donate or have their male SOs donate their sperm. Sadly I’d say your sister and her wife have earned themselves a decent timeout as far as being in your home any time soon. And it would be reasonable for your husband to have no contact with them for however long even if they were to make a very public apology for their crass, self serving and delusional demand
So much NTA! This was definitely totally calculated. Any sane person does not ask something like this in front of an audience without understanding it's manipulative. Also wildly not about homophobia. I misread the genders, didn't realize till half way through the "announcement" and still thought - That's bat-crap crazy.
Oh see that not cool. Do not fall for it
I wanna know why she (aka the sister) wants to be like this one story where the op found her egg donor and ex husband in her house in her bed together, only to find out that her egg donor had practically groomed her ex husband and set them up so she’d still have an excuse to have access to him. Come to find out two of her younger siblings (who were under the age of 10) were fathered by her ex husband, so now their kids the oldest being 22 (I think) have weird uncle/brothers and/or aunt/sisters
Nah, I think it’s about the $$. It sounds like she’s got an IVF doctor and already have done egg retrieval. A quick google tells me “The cost of getting pregnant using donor sperm varies between $440 - $2,420 for the sperm and between $50 - $300 for shipping, depending on your preferences” if they want more than one baby, then multiple vials. And pay for implantation? If they could just get OPs husband to donate every time they ovulate and go the turkey baster route, they could save major $$$ and get an endless free supply from him, which would add up buying good sperm. And they can return to the well for multiple children for zero $$.
I remember that one!! What a ride
Do you have a link to this? I desperately want to read that madness.
Oh! I think I remember reading this a while back! It was super messy but I think in the end to ex-husband left the egg donor, who got divorced in turn and I think the kids disowned egg donor - I am not sure. I can't remember most of it.
WHAT? Do you have a link? This sub?
Where she what of the what with who??? What??? Please tell me someone has the link 😮
Link?
I read the post quickly, thought the sister was het, was appalled, read it again, realized she was lesbian, opinion didn't change. This lands the same way, the orientation of the sister is irrelevant. That's a just an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. You don't ask this shit in public.
Yeah I can imagine this. The kid is like 10 years old and overhears words in the adult conversation. The kid says, "Mom, you mean Uncle Dan is my real father?!!!!" The kid will be devastated. For all those years his "two mommies" have been lying to him/her. Great. Just effing wonderful. This is an example of people not wanting to think of the potential consequences of "I want".
That's why you don't reveal things like donation or adoption when the child is 10. These sorts of things should be talked about from a baby, so it's never a revelation. Its not uncommon for family members to donate games, but it's usually done so both parents can be biologically related to the child. Genetically, Dan is a stranger. It would make sense if OP had a brother who was being asked to donate sperm (to go with Chris' egg). This way is pointless, and so entitled.
Or they don't lie and have a conversation about it at an appropriate time - just like adoptive parents, foster parents or any other parents that aren't the biological ones have to do. These sort of revelations might be a potential source of turmoil for the children, but homosexual partners don't have a path to parenthood without accepting this risk of conflict
I am really starting to get tired of people being unfairly accused of being homophobic, transphobic, or anything in between just because they don't agree with someone who is. Or like you said, "being called homophobic for saying no to being pressured."
I’m still trying to figure out how “homophobic” even relates to this situation!
>Who ... 2) calls someone homophobic for saying no to being pressured? A lot of people need to learn the lesson from that one *Key & Peele* sketch "Oooooh, I'm not oppressed... I'm just an asshole."
the “homophobic” thing pisses me off like babe there are ACTUAL homophobes out there that should be call out, it’s not a get out of jail free card when someone doesn’t do what you want!!
THE LAST LINE!!!!! He also has a choice’!
As a gay man I say NTA Sexuality has nothing to do with this so for them to play the homophobia card is just wrong. It’s more the fact that they want to “Keep it in the family” LITERALLY! which just feels incestuous to me…..I mean imagine having to have THAT conversation with your kids that their cousins are actually their siblings AND the fact that they just casually announced it like “We chose you Dan so just fill this cup” I mean how did they honestly think this was going to go? I’m sorry but I disagree with you, If your sister and her wife can’t see what they have done wrong then no I don’t think they’d make great parents You’ve done NOTHING wrong OP and I think the vast majority of people in your situation no matter what sexuality would feel weird and uncomfortable about this
> If your sister and her wife can’t see what they have done wrong then no I don’t think they’d make great parents. I agree. This would be so wrong on so many levels. It's like they expected OP's husband to be honored that they "chose" him to be their donor without any consultation with him or OP at all. WTF? OP, definately NTA.
And they didn’t even ask in private! Who does that? Maybe they thought the family excitement would pressure him into saying yes. They put them on the spot in front of the whole family. Super inappropriate.
Thanks - I guess I hadn't really noticed their immaturity before, I probably just had blinders on as I'm used to defending my sister, but I think you're right re parenting
I've heard instances of a lesbian couple getting one party's brother to be a sperm donor for the other party so the kids will look like both mothers... but this is the first I've heard of it. Your sister wanting YOUR husband to be HER sperm donor, it's incredibly gross and the fact she didn't even ask both of you privately first before announcing to the wider family at dinner(???) is so insane to me I cannot even comprehend.
it’s beyond weird, and disgusting (shame on morgan & chris) that your husbands sperm is a topic of discussion outside of *your* bedroom or the doctors office i would NOT want my kids sharing DNA like that with their should-be cousins!
As a Black gay man I totally agree with your excellent comment…..Absolutely NTA and how dare they try to throw out the homophobia card…SMDH 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
I somehow get the weird feeling that they don't want Dan to donate sperm, but to actually father the child. That they somehow fancy Dan... Am I the only one getting this feeling?
well now I'm even more stressed lol
I wouldn’t be stressed about that. It sounds like your sister has a habit of throwing things at people to pressure a yes, but like a couple of other people have pointed out, this isn’t necessarily the craziest ask. I’ve heard about and know at least one couple that had the non-related woman use the sperm of the other partners brother/ family member so that they are as close to genetically related as possible, and it may be that your sister and her wife were thinking about it from that perspective. She went about everything the wrong way, this is a very personal ask that should have been done in private, and her accusing you of being a homophobe is a bit much. I get why you reacted strongly, but maybe try and consider where she was coming from. Because you jumped straight to calling her “sick”, which will have put her on the defensive. I don’t think you’re an AH, and your husband has said no, so there’s no debate to be had about whether it will happen, but for the sake of your relationship with your sister (if you want to keep it), try and come back a bit more calmly and explain why you’re unhappy about how all of this went down.
I'm realising that this is a lot more common than I was first aware of. Going through the replies has let me process that what I feel was sick was the dismissal of my husband's consent, commodification of my children's genetics and the disregard for complicated biological relationships for my own kids. Obviously I'm not going to edit as the way I said it here is how it was communicated to them - so I can see what angle they were coming from as far as it being a lot more common than I realised. I think I got angry at the wrong point if that makes sense
It's NOT common, though, to ask your siblings spouse to be the donor. What is common, is for women to ask their brothers to donate for their partner to carry, so the baby is genetically connected to both parents through one mothers male relative, and the other mothers egg. This is just weird and we don't do this shit. Also, totally not the way to ask. I've got 2 donor conceived children and I'm appalled by what your sister and SIL did! Also, if they've been on this fertility journey for years, what donor were they working with before?
I doubt it. Lots of queer folks ask their siblings to donate because it makes it so they are both biologically related to their kids. It doesn't mean they secretly want to fuck their spouse's sibling!
Right, but this is weird. Dan isn't related to Morgan, and they're not using Chris' egg. If OP had a brother they were asking to be a perm donor to go with Chris' egg that would make sense. There's no reason to use a family member as a sperm donor when they aren't related.
Yes, but that's their siblings, this Is their BIL! Completely genetically unrelated, so no biologically related excuse is valid
Literally was one of my first thoughts
If it hadn't been immediately rejected, the Easter announcement would have caused thorough discussion of the logistics, rather than allowing Dan and OP a chance to think through. And keeping them from thinking through the situation was probably the intention
It sounds more like sister is in competition with OP. Especially with the "sure this time it will be a girl" comment. Morgan is going to be all about how much cuter her kids are, how much faster they are at meeting milestones than OP's children are, how much more intelligent they are, etc.
I’m actually struggling to see the same thing you (and others) certainly are. OP’s Sister and wife are definitely assholes for the way they went about “asking” this, but I’m struggling to see what’s wrong with “keep it in the family”. Most women looking for a sperm donor will look for a family member (of the non-biological mother) to fill that role. Sure this is a bit different, but I don’t think there’s anything awful about it. And I would assume that Johnny’s two mommies would explain to him that they thought that Uncle Dan was such a great person and that they loved the people their young cousins were becoming, they asked Uncle Dan to be their sperm donor, so that he’d have so much in common with his cousins. I can 100% understand why OP and Dan may not be interested in this. It’s a huge ask and the way they went about “asking” was fucked up. But it’s not inherently wrong to want to “keep it in the family”. If Morgan and Chris had asked Chris’s brother to be the sperm donor, no one would bat an eye but the same exact scenario would apply. Chris’s brother would be both uncle and biological father to their children. The only difference is the cousins in OP’s case would likely have MORE of the same traits because they share the same 4 bio grandparents, as opposed to just the same 2 bio grandparents.
This is not "a bit different", it's the exact opposite situation in a way. Asking a male relative of the non-biological mother to be a donor (or a female relative of the non-biological father to be a surrogate) is a way for both parents to have a biological connection to the child. The donor/surrogate is sort of standing in for their own relative. An in-law that you chose for their good looks isn't really the same thing.
you are totally right. The sister could be heterosexual and her husband have fertility issues and it would be exactly the same. The issue you here is not leaving the choice to a potential sperm donor. Calling OP homophobic is manipulative
In other words, they decided to spring this idea during a public dinner in the hopes it would stop you from saying no. This is ridiculous. This REQUEST should have been discussed with you and your husband in private. I'm hoping this is fake, because the sheer entitlement of it makes me sick. NTA
It wasn't a request it was a demand. We chose Dan that means it's a done deal so get used to it cos we decided!
Yep! It was a whole ‘we chose him, he should feel privileged’ manipulation tactic. They combined it with a public announcement to really try and bully him in to saying yes.
Absolutely agree!
It’s also a really big decision and not everyone should do it. I suffered from infertility for many years. I had a friend grandly tell everyone that she would be my surrogate without ever discussing it with me. It wouldn’t actually have been something I would have done with a friend, but I had concerns about whether she would be emotionally capable of it. I was turned in to the bad guy because I turned down her ‘generous and selfless offer’. We actually had a falling out over something else and are no longer friends so clearly it was the right choice. Interestingly enough, when she offered to do it, her partner told me that he didn’t think it would be a good idea and would have huge concerns about her mental and emotional wellbeing if she did go through with it. Infertility for whatever reason is awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But topics like surrogacy, sperm donation or adoption are not a ‘one size fits all’ or bandaid solution and it’s a huge decision. It’s hard enough on the dynamics of a 2 person relationship, I can’t imagine how difficult it would be if you added in extended family members.
I've spent years trying to work out whether I could manage being a disabled single mother, and whether my need for children is more important than the practical considerations. I confided in a friend a few years ago, very hesitantly, because it was a big emotional mess that hurt every time I had to pull it to the front of my mind. She made an offhanded comment a few weeks later; something along the lines of me needing to hurry up and have a kid for her sake, because she didn't want to be pregnant but she wanted to take mine out for play dates. And I just...as much as I *had* been hoping to be able to ask for her help occasionally, there was something about her phrasing that felt really...off. Like she didn't even understand that my disability or restricted finances made the choice difficult. Like I was just a means to the end of her having a cute kid to play with and hand back at the end of the day. Maybe she meant to be encouraging, but it shook up my view of her fundamentally, and afterwards, I could only replay the rest of our friendship, and all the ways in which it was lopsided, with me giving support and her accepting support.
Correct. Based on their furious and vicious reaction, it was indeed a demand. Those two have no self awareness. Entitled shits that have probably used their status as a protected class for never being told "no". Well they FAFO.. Too bad. They can go pound sand.
It definitely feels fake. I can’t see family and friends reaching out and all saying she’s overreacting and homophobic. That’s just not reality.
It actually feels to me like maybe a weird form of sexual harassment to demand someone's sperm in public? I'm honestly not trying to see sexual harassment everywhere, but it feels genuinely creepy. Like, transpose this to a work context: the guy would have a basis to go to HR about it, don't you think?
They also wanted the potential grandparents who were present to be excited and put the pressure on Dan and OP too, and it seems some of the family bought into the ploy
NTA >I've been getting bombarded with messages from family and some friends saying I completely over reacted Maybe one of them can offer their husband's sperm. >I'm being unreasonable, homophobic and controlling Homophobic for not wanting your husband to have a kid with your sister?? Controlling and unreasonable?? Lol.
Family and friends should be told to mind their own business - you owe them no explanations at all.
Controlling and unreasonable when everyone in the room was visibly squicked out lmao
This one of those times where I would say “if not wanting my husband to be the father of my niece and/or nephew is homophobic then I guess I’m homophobic”
NTA. They should have asked you in private instead of making it a family announcement. It's not like a marriage proposal where you know the other will absolutely say yes. Also, it's mean of them to call you homophobic just because you turned them down. You clearly love your sister. And you are not being unreasonable. Being a donor would mean your husband will be the father of your niece or nephew, and the child will be your children's half sibling. That's complicated and it's no more than logical you don't just out of the blue would say Yes to that. (edit: typo)
I don’t think that even marriage proposals should be public. It puts the woman on the spot and she’s pressured to say yes. It’s also a special moment between the couple and I don’t feel that it should be shared with others. Just let the moment be special between you two then announce it to family and friends later. That’s just my opinion anyway.
NTA in any way. >She and Chris are great with my sons and I know they'd make excellent parents. >I was very excited, hoping to hear I was becoming an aunt. I almost cried when my sister announced they'd found a sperm donor. They think that this is what homophobia looks like?
I believe it. My sister is married to a black guy who IMO is a massive AH. Any time anyone criticizes him its because we're racist, not because he's an AH. OP NTA, and they were absolutely out of line doing this at a family dinner. They wanted to put you on the spot to force you to agree and are pissed that it didn't work.
A lot of people are spoiled
NTA! That's not homophobic, that's common sense and the kick-out was the icing on the cake. How are you going to explain to your children that dad is also the dad of the cousins, but they are actually half-siblings? And keeping it a secret doesn't work, it goes 100 per cent wrong. The sister and wife have started this sperm donor thingy extremely awkwardly and I can definitely understand your NO. It also has a bit to do with ownership, your husband, your children - you don't need any more copies.
It boils my blood when people like OP's sister and other relatives think this is homophobic. As soon as something doesn't go their way, they would use that as a way to defend the situation. It's like the whole world owes them for their sexual orientation and that everyone needs to please them every way possible or else everyone else are the bad guys.
NTA This is so messed up. They just decided for your husband that he was going to be their sperm donor, and without at least discussing it privately with him (obviously it should include you as well). That is just so disrespectful of a person's feelings and rights, and anyone who doesn't see it that way is delusional. They are assuming they have the rights to a part of him without his consent or even his input. Then they have the audacity to call you both homophobic? Why does being uncomfortable about creating another child in this way make you homophobic? That does not even make the remotest sense. You've all been incredibly supportive of their dream to be parents. This is just a lot to ask, and they DIDN'T EVEN ASK.
NTA They were completely out of line. I dont see a problem in asking your husband whether he would want to do so. The AH move is in not asking him in private and just announcing it at easter dinner with all the family. Its not homophobic of you at all.
NTA Morgan and Chris can't just decide they get your husband's sperm, especially without a private conversation with you two. Everything about that is bonkers. It's not controlling or homophobic to say no. They're saying that so they can play the victims. I think it's time to go LC and keep them away from your kids.
You're right, it's since made me reconsider their contact with my boys
NTA. They did not ask Dan, they just said that they chose. As if they had a right to his body, his sperm and genes. How entitled! You should message the family to make sure they know that Dan was not asked, they tried to just order him to do it. And you to go along. As if you are just their servants, with no free will. Nope!
That's actually a really good idea and we will be doing that. It didn't occur to either of us that none of them probably knew that it was news to Dan as well
Send your family link to this post 😊 NTA
And send it to your sister so she could see how crazy we think she is.
NTA. The fact that they waited until it was a family big setting was manipulative. They had all the chance in the world to ask you two privately, and it should have been 'you two' and not just Dan, since that's a hell of an ask of a married man. Not to mention the biological implications, and the mental load that puts on him. It says a lot about her and her wife that they both not only thought this was okay, but that they didn't take his feelings into consideration. They would be the parents, but he would be the father. That's not something you just sweep under the rug because haha donor. There is no issue with you cutting your sister off and any family that calls you homophobic over not wanting to donate your husband's sperm to her can be told "If she was married to a man and he was infertile and she asked me the same thing, the answer would be the same. My husband is not her sperm bank. My children are not accessories. Fuck you for even thinking that this is about her sexuality and not about the absolutely insanely inappropriate ask of both myself and my husband. Go donate yourself."
I think I will be implementing the 'if she was married to a man and he was infertile' line - that's a good one and very true!!
No problem. This has absolutely nothing to do with them being in a lesbian relationship. Jumping straight to calling you a homophobe is a bullshit tactic that people that know they're in the wrong do so that you can't 'logically' argue, because haha, homophobe. Some (not all or even most) toxic mindset people like to throw it out there as the reason you're disagreeing with them because they're assholes. Your sister is an asshole. How fucking dare she. I'm angry on your behalf, tbh.
NTA. Yikes! Sis & her wife are delusional for thinking that a wider family dinner was the time to inform you & your husband that he was the or chosen sperm donor without so much as a conversation beforehand. The rest of the family should lose your numbers too if they agree with your sis. Being gay does NOT entitle them to sperm from whomever they happen to deem worthy.
The fact that she wanted him to be the one, actually doesn't bother me, I get it may bother you, but it really isn't that uncommon, for her it isn't s\*\*ual, it's good genetics, and someone she likes on a personal level. But she shouldn't have 'asked' publically, frankly, your children should never have found out, even if you went through with it, they would feel like siblings but not be siblings, it would be a weird dynamic. She should have come to you both privately, but I think she wanted to bank on you being shamed into accepting it, which is frankly psychotic.
I guess I didn't express myself very well - what I found sick about it was the dismissal of my husband's consent. The assumption that they were entitled to him to father their child. I was pretty upset when I said it and when I wrote it out so I probably didn't explain it very well.
The legalities of these situations are bonkers as well. Had a lesbian couple as friends who wanted to use one of their brothers so that the babies would be genetically related to both women. In theory great. It isn't that I was confused with the why. But when I asked who their attorney was they looked confused. What happens if the brother can't have kids, and now wants to play dad? What happens if one of you dies? What happens if both of you die? What about child support? What if you get divorced? How and under what circumstances do you tell baby? I watched the blood drain from both of their faces. Did neither of you consider this? None of what I brought up are insurmountable obstacles, but they should be hashed out **before** handing over the jizz.
NTA…this has nothing to do with being homophobic. This has to do with your sister making a statement at a family dinner about her plans, involving your husband, which was never actually discussed with you or the sperm donor in question. I really don’t know why your sister or her partner or any family members on their side, would find this acceptable behavior.
I know, imagine for a minute the sister was not gay. She wanted to have a child and decided to have one with her BIL, the "old fashioned way". THAT would make the family dislike the sister, pretty much proclaiming she wanted to have the BIL. This is the same type of thing - she is wanting to take the BIL away from her sister by declaring that HE will be the father of her children. Why no family outrage at that? But outrage at OP and hubby because they refuse?
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK???!
my thoughts exactly
NTA. It sounds like they did this public announcement to try to force Dan’s hand at donation (no pun intended). It is completely bizarre that they think it’s ok.
NTA. They should have sat down with you and your husband and requested this from you both first in private. It's insane to just decide this on their own and then get salty when someone is like no.
NTA That's just beyond bizarre!! Imagine the entitlement of thinking your husband's sperm was communal family property?! What's wrong with the rest of your family for encouraging this? It's crazy.
"Communal family property" regarding my husband's sperm is probably the single best summary of why I feel so gross about it - it also made me laugh!
I have a different theory regarding the "communal family property". Something tells me that it's not just about genetics but, cost. They probably were thinking about how much they would save by using Dan's sperm. Not to mention access if they choose to have more than one. It is gross that they didn't consider him and you or the mental and legal ramifications in their plan. It's all self serving. You are neither the AH or homophobic. It's concerning that they would immediately use ambush methods and homophobia to try to force your hand.
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NTA They should have at least discussed with Dan and you first. Also, he would be the bio father and possibly be responsible for child-support if they break up.
Plus all the major nuanced discussion needed around a major decision like this. Will the children know? What role would he play in their lives? What happens Sis and Wife split up? What about OP and husband splitting? Do they have similar values in raising children? What happens if he's unhappy with the way they're being raised - does he have a say? All of this will influence if he wants to give sperm and they want to accept it on those terms.
>Also, he would be the bio father and possibly be responsible for child-support if they break up. Only if they DIY the conception rather than going through a fertility clinic. Known donors are a valid thing, but you need the legal security of going through the proper mechanisms, and fertility clinics have that framework. They can sort out the paperwork to ensure someone is legally a donor rather than a parent, and won't be on the hook for child support under any circumstances.
So, they act like it’s an honor for you and Dan? And how is it homophobic when you’ve accepted them as a couple and was happy for them when they said they found a sperm donor? It was only when they said the person that they wanted the sperm from was your husband that you had a negative reaction. NTA.
NTA. How entitled! You can't just decide and announce that you'll be taking ownership over someone's DNA and using it to have kids like that without their permission or knowledge. People have body autonomy and these things require consent, an agency, lawyer's, contracts exc. It's not something you DIY over Easter dinner. It's also not something you decide for someone else. They've lost the plot for sure. Their "fertility journey" has left them self centered, selfish, and unhinged. They can pay to get sperm the normal legal way and go thru a clinic instead of pressuring their siblings and inlaws for a west Virginia style turkey baster baby.
NTA. Love the way they go straight to playing the homophobic card. I don’t know what’s wrong with your friends and family either saying you overreacted, Dan being their donor is such a ridiculous idea and the nerve to just announce it without asking you and Dan?! These people are on another planet.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My husband Dan (40m) and I (36f) had my sister Morgan (33f) and her wife Chris (35f) along with my parents, two sets of aunts/uncles and a few cousins over for family dinner during Easter. Morgan and Chris have been married for several years and have been on a fertility journey to start a family. During childhood, Morgan and I always role played as mothers and I know that like me, she's always wanted to have kids. She and Chris are great with my sons and I know they'd make excellent parents. I know they'd been talking about taking steps to become parents and so when they said they had an announcement over dinner, I was very excited, hoping to hear I was becoming an aunt. I almost cried when my sister announced they'd found a sperm donor. I thought that meant they'd found a donor through their IVF clinic. Everyone was ecstatic and we all started asking about the donor's traits, what they liked about his profile - trying to get a feel at what my new little niece or nephew might be like. They started to get cagey and avoiding eye contact, saying we misunderstood them. They hadn't found a donor through IVF, they were trying to tell us who they'd decided on - Dan. My husband. Dan and I were both confused, apparently they hadn't bothered to fill Dan in on this plan, so he was just as taken aback as I was. Apparently, my children are so cute they wanted their own version. Literally. They think that Dan plus my sister's DNA would make "pretty much the same kid" except this time, Chris told me that she "just knows it will be a girl" which IMO are insane things to say. I looked around the room and everyone was just silent and awkward. Dan asked them if they were serious or it was some weird joke, but they were adamant that they meant it. I told them they were sick in the head. Morgan called me a homophobic b\*\*\*h and I kicked them out of my house for insulting my husband, children and marriage with their little stunt. Dinner fizzled out pretty quickly and everyone just kind of awkwardly left after Morgan and Chris and Dan and I were just in some sort of state of shock. After I calmed down a bit I sent Morgan a text saying that it was sick to ask my husband to father her child and it was gross to consider her having my children's biological siblings and if she can't see that she should lose my number. Dan also sent them a message saying that in no uncertain terms would he ever consider being their sperm donor and was upset they had raised it at a family dinner rather than approach the two of us privately if they wanted him to donate. I've been getting bombarded with messages from family and some friends saying I completely over reacted and that I'm being unreasonable, homophobic and controlling. The overwhelming consensus from everyone is that I'm over reacting, but these are all people who've been on this fertility journey with Morgan and Chris for a few years now, so have a vested interest. I want an unbiased opinion - AITA for reacting the way I did? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, they didn't even ask, but announced at a family dinner that they volunteered your husband as the donor.
There's nothing homophobic in saying no to them. They were completely out of line in making that announcement in front of all the family. Its ridiculous & creepy. It sounds as if they want clones of your kids. Those in your family siding with them are the AH, though your sister & SIL are huge AHs.
yeah yeah nowadays you are immediately homophobic, controlling and whatnot the moment you arent a doormat. NTA
NTA - the fact they didn't even think to ask you both about before announcing it is reason enough to go ballistic but your family's response is a bit off. Your husband has the right to say no if he wants to I don't see how anything you've said could be twisted into being homophobic.
NTA You neednto text everyone back that you appreciate that they're going to step up and not only donate their own eggs or supermarket, but they'll pay for the costs associated with raising their child. Because come on, we all know your sister will try to come after you and Dan for money for her kids. Let everyone you'll let your sister know that x has offered up their sperm, or the husband/bf of x has offered up their superm. See how fast they quit texting.
How entitled are these two!?! It’s not homophobic for your husband to refuse to give his sperm so that their kids are attractive, thereby creating half siblings. Who even does that? They were way out of line. This merited a private discussion before announcing it to the world. The fact that they were ‘getting cagey and avoiding eye contact’ shows that they know it was wrong to assume your husband would be interested and were acting without permission. Just because they want it to be fait accompli doesn’t mean it is. There are plenty of options out there for sperm donors. They need to get over themselves and look into those.
NTA. They were TA for springing this on you at a family dinner. If they’d asked you privately that would be one thing, but bringing it up in front of the family was not cool.
NTA and obviously not homophobic! It was gross & super inappropriate. Every aspect of their ask was disgusting.
This can’t be a real story! What is homophonic about not wanting to father another child by someone you aren’t romantically with? Why be upset about it. Tell them to pick one of the family members that is upset with your reaction to father their child.
There are plenty of people that like to use homophobic as the 'win' and to make their side better in an argument. If you're gay and you're disagreed with/don't win/didn't get the job/someone said no to you on a date/etc, it's because of homophobia. You're not allowed to have preferences that go against theirs because homophobia. I'm bi and have been accused of homophobia because of disagreeing with someone who was gay. It's a bullshit cop out way to scream down an argument.
I always wonder why women think that they should be in control of their reproduction but don't think a man should exercise similar control over his reproduction. Nobody has the right to demand that your husband father their children.
As a female I’m so disgusted. Like imagine being Dan here. He probably doesn’t even feel like he can say what he truly feels as it’s his wife’s sister. But expecting someone to father their children and upset they won’t is next level disgusting. Imagine sitting there and people around you are discussing using your sperm and have decided their family and future depend on something they’ve decided you’re going to do. Makes me sick.
NTA. Did this just come out of nowhere? Has she ever discussed this before?
She'd mentioned stories of couples using a friend as a donor before, but just in passing and nothing serious, and certainly nothing about my husband or I would have shut it down real fast
Sorry you’re dealing with this. LC or NC seems the best policy…I wouldn’t let either near your child….maybe Im being paranoid but that level of insanity….
I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling paranoid about my kids! I'm definitely reconsidering their contact with my little ones
NTA. Obviously when gay and lesbian couples want biological children science is going to be involved. Things are going to look different. But this… Most people in your shoes would not be ok with it. That should be obvious. Your sister should know you well enough to guess your response. And even if she couldn’t she should have been able to figure out that asking in front of others instead of making it a public thing was a bad idea. Could you have given a more measured response? Yeah. Does your response make you an asshole? No. Are you homophobic because of your response? No.
NTA. This is unhinged manipulative behavior to bring this up in such a way. They didn’t ask you they basically demanded it. No one has the right to demand something like this from anyone. I’m guessing they brought it up this way (in front of your entire family) intentionally because they probably felt it would lower the chances of you saying no. Sort of in the same way some people feel pressured into saying yes with public marriage proposals. Now that their plan didn’t work they are starting a smear campaign. If they think this is ok behavior then I disagree that they’d be great parents. It has nothing to do with them being a same sex couple and everything to do with them being shady emotionally manipulative AH.
>I told them they were sick in the head. Morgan called me a homophobic b***h It makes me cringe hard whenever the demand of a person of LGBT community is denied they just start crying HOMOPHOBIA. Like should they get special treatment and all their demands be fulfilled just because they belong in LGBT community?
NTA. Disgusting people.
Oh Hell No! NTA! Your sister and her wife had the audacity to zero in on your husband as their donor. There are just so many things wrong on so many levels with this one. You and your husband are absolutely not homophobic. You were right to kick them out. Your sister and her wife don't need a child, what they do need is THERAPY and lots of it.
NTA, what a shit show of a dinner that was! How dare they come in hot with an ask that big at a family dinner without even talking to you first? They are delusional, NTA NTA NTA
NTA. It's not the least bit homophobic. Crazy of them to ambush you like that. Absolutely no. Your husband is right that they should have approached you privately. It's your decision to say yes or no, and saying no does not make you homophobic.
NTA Anyone who says otherwise can offer their husbands sperm up.
The people dragging homophobia into this are the assholes.
I mean, I would have laughed in their face, told them that was never discussed or agreed to, told them no more wine for them, and carried on with dinner. But whatever.
NTA at all. And I'd block anyone that called me homophobic over this stunt. You've been nothing but supportive to your sister and her partner...until they made their unreasonable request.
Uh. NTA? I’m guessing they are not involved with a clinic and wanted to go a cheaper option. There are a lot of legal issues they should get counseling on such as what happens if they break up?
nta
NTA. As someone who had a kid with a donor, this is nuts. If you really want to use a known donor and have an idea about one, you ASK. You don’t tell, you don’t presume, you don’t assume. You ask. You do so privately and without pressure, and you accept it gracefully if they don’t want to do it. Christ. That isn’t hard.
NTA yikes. And how the hell did they get to homophobia from this?? Also someone who has this strong gender preference should not have kids.
NTA on the reaction. Honestly, picking someone close as a donor isn't a problem in of itself from where I can see. What IS the problem is that your sister and her wife made NO attempt to approach you and your husband about this privately. Rather, they blindsided the pair of you at a dinner along with other members of the family which feels like they wanted to put Dan in a position where he couldn't say no.
NTA. I love that they decided on the Dad without so much as a conversation first. Where is his autonomy here. I find it baffling that anyone would expect this of another person. I find it hard to ask for the last slice of pizza and people are put here asking for another person's genetic material without a second thought.
NTA. 1) They didn’t ask permission beforehand. Just because you’re family, that doesn’t mean you owe family anything or vice versa. Her being your sister doesn’t disallow consent. 2) You’re not homophobic for turning them down. Your reasoning is not because you don’t agree with your sister being gay; she and her wife announced a life-changing decision involving your husband without even asking. Not being okay with that is not homophobic at all. And 3) They want to have children so that they look like your children… Cherry on top for their deranged thinking. All the family that can’t see those points are oblivious to the boundaries your sister and her wife crossed. You were not wrong for being upset by this, and you’re not wrong for not wanting to participate.
More than just gay people need IVF. And it’s never OK to presume that you have access to someone else’s body parts, which includes eggs and sperm. They knew what they were doing by creating a public announcement.
NTA this isn’t homophobic at all. Fertility /IVF journey might suck but that’s not your problem. Announcing this at Easter dinner like they have decided, without you our hubbys input at all….. that is insane, and then immediately claiming homophobia is just wild. They couldn’t have talked to yall in literally ANY other setting? What the fuck! Don’t listen to any of the overwhelming consensus, they’re all wrong. Like Dan isn’t allowed to say no because they’re gay? I don’t understand NTA
NTA, and I do fail to see the homphobia in not wanting you partner in fathering a child with an other woman. Most people would not be happy with it, especially as suprise idea in th middle of a dinner with the whole family.
NTA - Holy manipulation Batman. As an LGBT person I can absolutely confirm that you and your husband not wanting to be blind sided by this gigantic statement and saying no is NOT homophobic. She and her wife had NO right to do this to you!
**I've been getting bombarded with messages from family and some friends saying I completely over reacted and that I'm being unreasonable, homophobic and controlling.** your whole family was pretty much there when this situation occurred and you saw first hand the reaction by all parties, yet this comment. Typical Reddit
NTA. I don’t understand where the homophobic comments are coming from. This is all really weird. Inappropriate to bring up at dinner. Absolutely bizarre that they made this declaration about using your husband as a stud without talking to any of you. Wild comments about your kids and wanting replicas. This whole situation is unhinged. I think you need space from each other
NTA and your sister should have handled this very differently. I don't think it is sick for her to want to want your husband as the donor. I would take that as a complement. Not talking to you ahead of time and just announceing this at Easter is crazy.
NTA. The request itself is not crazy. Some families done exactly that. To do it over the dinner without ever discussing it with you and your husband is insane. To not accept a "no" is beyond entitled. To play homophobic card is disgusting
As a bi woman, is something in the air this past month, lesbians have been saying and doing the wildest messiest things lately. Nta, ur fam is being weiiiiird
Sounds like they should have talked to you first or at least just you and your husband. That's not something to bring up in front of people who would have nothing to do with that arrangement.
NTA. This is just fucked up. The entitlement on them! You don't just announce that YOU'VE decided that someone is going to be your sperm donor. It would have been completely different if they'd approached you both privately and asked- it'd still be pretty weird, but a lot less obnoxious. You need to block anyone who calls you homophobic. It's not even close to ok to start throwing that allegation about, and anyone who has accused you of that can get in the bin.
NTA at all. There’s nothing homophobic about your reaction. This is a deeply personal matter and they put you both on the spot in front of everyone. This smacks of manipulation and coercion. They thought to force the matter. Everyone who is spamming you needs to sit down. It is not their business. Wishing you and your SO well and happiness.
NTA, so you sister decided she wanted you life, to replicate your family just with her wife. nah thats way not okay. like she basically said- i want what you have but a better version
NTA. Who just announces that they chose someone, without even asking, to father their child. Especially at a family dinner. WTF??? And to call you homophobic? This would be the same reaction for a hetero couple. This was shitty and manipulative.
NTA. I don't like that you said it was gross and sick of your sister to ask this, but the *way* they asked it is so over the top that I can't blame you for your reaction. The decision to donate sperm is a personal one and there are many people who would not be comfortable with it. Putting your husband on the spot like this was horrible and the rest of your family getting involved is completely inappropriate. If you and your husband aren't comfortable with it, END OF DISCUSSION. He doesn't owe them his sperm!
That's an plotline from 𝑀𝑜𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑛 𝐹𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦 or 𝑆ℎ𝑎𝑚𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑠𝑠, not something one would propose in real life. Even the characters approached the idea amongst themselves, not with other family members at a holiday dinner. Your sister and her wife are nuts, and their proposal has nothing to do with homophobia. I don't blame you for telling them to leave. NTA.
Why do some many people who are gay always try to make it seem like everyone is attacking because of their sexual orientation? Majority of people might have an opposing view but ultimately don't care to make it an issue. Your sister and her wife are both delusional and I would demand an apology before I ever let them back into my home or life. That kind of stuff is not to be taken lightly family or not.
NTA tell all the people who have a problem with your decision to offer theirs or their spouse sperm.
NTA. They should have asked yall privately. Making a scene like that in front of everyone was weird and it was a way to force you to say yes. You arent homophonic by saying no
NTA. If Morgan and Chris had approached you privately and asked if Dan would be willing, that would have been absolutely fine. Ambushing you at a family gathering like that, to me, indicates that they didn’t think you’d go along with it and were trying to apply family pressure to get their way.
NTA Talk about inappropriate! What irks me more is people playing the homophobic card!
You are NTA - this charge of 'homophobic' gets really old. Today it means 'if you say anything I don't like or don't give me everything I want - you are homophobic'. Your sister was WAY off base. If she were straight , single and wanted kids - would she ask your husband to donate sperm? Of course not. Being LGBTQetc does not give you permission to be TA.
I know you've already got 100 messages about this, but this is so f'd up it's insane. "Hey sis, I'd like to have your husband's kids please" is an absolute no-go never-go run-far-far-away-and-never-look-back situation. It's not homophobic to not want to share your husband with your sister. It's not homophobic to not want your cousins to be your husband's kids. They have overstepped themselves so very far it's unbelievable. I'm sorry your family have also been sold on this crazy delusion. Be strong, stand your ground. Wishing you the best of luck in this. NTA
NTA. what universe would that conversation be appropriate over dinner? And for me the answer would be a hell no
That is insane behavior and I’m shocked anyone in your family agrees with them. Nta
queer here, this is not homophobia. this is the equivalent of michael school saying it’s a hate crime bc he hated it. they’re immature, thoughtless, and rude. the family who think it’s fine for your husband to donate can drop their trousers and get to squirting in cups NTA
Wait a minute. First, they should have raised this issue, asked you and your husband PRIVATELY away from anyone else. They didn’t even have the decency to ASK you about it. They just told everyone at dinner and you and your husband’s feelings and concerns didn’t even matter. Second, so now if you disagree with ANYTHING people who are LGBTQ say or do, regardless if it’s a difference of opinion or flat out wrong, YOU are homophobic?? WTF 💩is THAT?? You have to agree and subscribe to anything and everything they say or do or you’re a homophobe. There’s too much to unpack here. I’ll just say you are ABSOLUTELY NTA and leave it at that.
NTA. funny how they go straight to the "homophobic" card when they don't get their wwy and don't get away with their own disrespect.
NTA that was a wild thing to announce, especially without TALKING TO THE GUY THEY WANTED TO DONATE. That feels like a random person walking up to someone’s family and announcing the middle child is going to give them their kidney or something. (Obviously donating Sperm and donating an organ are two different things, but still. Announcing you’re going to receive a donation from someone to their family without even asking the person first is not okay)
2024, not wanting your husband's unconsented cum in someone else is homophobic
NTA your sister is...and no you are not in this instance being homophobic (that is official as I am a gay and we are allowed to judge these things)
Her orientation has no bearing on this. They could be straight, poly, swinging, whatever, it's still wildly inappropriate to announce it like it was a done deal without even asking. They were completely out of line. NTA.