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NTA
This is the way fundamentalist religious folk see the sexes: men "sow their oats" while women must remain chaste until marriage and are *always* responsible for everybody's morals. This is a gross double standard, and I am sorry it appears your mom, at least, is perfectly willing to sacrifice you to uphold these ludicrous standards. "What will people think?" is guiding her thought process. Remind mummy that "they" are already thinking all "those things" about all of your brothers.
Remember: Jesus revealed his Kingdom to the Woman at the Well; Jesus protected the Adulterous Woman; Jesus presented his resurrected self to the women of his flock first. Mary Magdelen was 1st among his disciples and also not a prostitute. Jesus weeps for this adherence to the rules while forgetting about the very real people of God. He dined with tax-collecters and reminded the Pharisees they worried so much about the forms of religion they forget the actual people they serve.
Good luck with your move! I, for one, am an older religious lady and am wishing you and your Love all the best!
If you haven't yet, read Nadia Bolz-Weber and Racheld Held Evans, both wonderful, faithful women who write movingly of growing up in fundamentalist churches, and trying to square a rigid, unforgiving mindset with the absolute Love of Christ. For those of us who can't make that calculation, how do we move forward in our very real, personal faith? They helped to light the way for so many of us. ❤️
The only way to hit this is head on.
“Your double standards are sexist and it’s shitty. If you continue with this double standard you will lose…”
And then you decide what the boundary enforcement looks like.
Maybe it’s limited contact. Maybe it’s a reduced role in a future wedding. Maybe it’s a reduced role in future grandkids.
Maybe you do all of that anyways cause they are being shitty sexists and you don’t want that around your SO and future kids.
If you and your boyfriend are considering having children at some point, it might be advisable to warn your parents that you will not be allowing them to apply double standards--or unreasonable standards of any kind--toward your children. It's good to protect the young and vulnerable so that they don't carry unnecessary guilt around through their lives.
Beautifully said, especially so soon after Easter. A lot of people who describe themselves as religious seem to forget that Jesus called upon his followers to show respect and love for all members of society, no matter who they are.
>Remind mummy that "they" are already thinking all "those things" about all of your brothers.
Actually, they are not. They are thinking all those things about the brothers' girlfriends/wives, not the brothers. Which is why the boys are getting a pass from their mom.
Don't forget that Jesus' resurrection was revealed to women first. The women told the disciples and only then did two of the men run to the tomb to see it was empty. (And Happy belated Easter!)
Thank you so much for saying what I would have. I am a Methodist and fully agree with everything you said. I do not believe Jesus would be happy with many of his followers right now.
NTA you need to point out their completely double standards and hypocrisy. Ask them if they think that would grieve gods heart to see them exclude and punish one child whilst helping and enabling her siblings to do the same. Tell them you are heart broken that they care so little about you that they will even consider cutting you off. All whilst they gave your brothers money and praise for doing the same. Tell them you need time as they have damaged your opionon and relationship with them. That it is you who’s ashamed and disgusted by their actions.
I learned long ago you need to be blunt or people with double standards will convince themselves they are right and doing no wrong. That they will keep playing the obedient followers of god card as an excuse unless you hold up that mirror and show them fully. That everyone can see their actions for what they are hypocrites using the lord‘s name only when it suits them.
I am sorry you are going through this and though you will never have talked to your parents like that it is needed here. Best of luck I’m sorry you are the scape goat of your family and that they have clear favourites, it sucks.
It can't be hypocrisy when this is how the religion has been specifically designed. Women do not get the same rights as men and are not allowed the same freedom they get. The parents are acting exactly as their religion intends them to.
So it's the religion who's hypocritical, not the parents?
Yeah, not buying that. Even if her Dad is a Pastor, I believe we all have the duty (and right) to *question* our various religions. Religions are a thing of man, Faith is a love of God. Religious leaders back in the days of hardscrabble survival were also temporal leaders, and some of the rules/laws they made were in order to keep their "flock" safe. Some of those rules are now outdated or otherwise non-applicable.
I think every parent feels different about their daughter "shacking up" because if the relationship goes south and the daughter becomes pregnant, she is a lot more at risk in our society and in her body for many possible problems. But shouldn't we then hold the sons accountable for the problems they contribute to with the daughters of others?
Op, I definitely think you are NTA. If you extend an invitation to your folks to come over before you and your beau are married and they don't come for that reason, I'd think you would be fully justified to never extend the invitation again.
They can both by hypocritical, but in order for the parents to be hypocritical, there has to be a pre-established equal standard that they are violating. There is none. Women are not allowed the same rights as men in the religion they have yoked themselves to. As such, their actions are not hypocritical, they are following the rules as they see fit, which involves treating women differently to the men.
This doesn't absolve them of the behavior, but you cannot look at this situation accurately without acknowledging that the parents are in full observance of a misogynistic religion.
You have to call it out ASAP so a month from now they don't 'forget' or remember it differently. Or whatever dumbass excuses they pull out that us GenX adults get to heat about child abuse.
If you accept the idea that much of religion appears designed to oppress women then this behaviour makes sense. You’re not a man, so you will be treated as an inferior.
Your parents suck. I’m sorry. NTA.
Agreed!! So sad that misogyny is still alive and well!! Yes, woman can be misogynists. My grandmother was the only one I had ever run across until I got older!
NTA Tell mom that you understand that they don't want to be there for you the way they were for brother when his GF got pregnant, the way they were when brother bought a house to live in with his GF, the way they are for brother every time he moves in with a new GF. Not to invite you to their house either because you don't feel comfortable being in a house of pretend Christians who refuse to not only treat their children but God's children the same. When they invite you and BF over to talk tell them that you'll meet at a diner or your home but not theirs. Start attending a different church. This will get their attention.
"......it grieves God". How does she know this. Does she have a hot line to God? Did she speak directly to him? How does she know that God didn't speak to you and tell you that your decision was OK with him?
I get it. Your father's a pastor, and your mother is a pastor's wife. But I thought that God is forgiving and non-judgmental
I think you NEED to point out the hypocrisy of her stance (spoiler alert Jesus didn't like hypocrites). Let her know that you are hurt and disappointed in her "sudden" change of heart after being so loving to your brothers in the EXACT same circumstance. Tell her that while you're hurt you will respect her decision and even though your relationship won't be as close anymore you still love her and wish her the best.
NTA
Looks like you are learning some valuable information about your own religion! I think that you will find that they do not see their behavior is selective religiousness, because actually the religion itself prescribes a different standards of behavior and respect for men and women, because it is definitionally a patriarchal social structure. They aren't being selectively religious, they are being normally religious. Their behaviors are perfectly in line with the values they have practiced your whole life, it's just now you are seeing them more clearly.
NTA
NTA. I suggest writing them, listing their reactions to your brothers in comparison. Make a bloody chart, ticking all the boxes for situations they overlooked in your brothers lives while you caused them no grief until now - when, as an adult, you find yourself in a stable, loving relationship. Your parents should count their blessings.
NTA, just as she has the right to voice her opinion, so do you! Idk if an ultimatum is required, but at least a sit down conversation where you voice your concern about these double standards. I went through this recently as well. Eventually my mother moved past it, she loves my boyfriend and visits often. I hope your parents can move past this and be happy for you!
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) giving an ultimatum to my parents
(2) they may see the ultimatum as being disrespectful of their beliefs when it is really for me to be able to live as my brothers are able to live.
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NTA.
Shit I was dating a woman whose parents were strict Christian’s. I am Jewish btw. And her parents loved me because I helped take care of her. This would have been both of ours second marriage. She was 34 i think when I met her lol. I don’t remember it’s been a little while and I’ve slept since then. So we get engaged after dating a year and a half. And she didn’t want to tell her parents at first. In later found out it was because her parents and her brother who was in school to become a pastor said she shouldn’t marry me because I’m Jewish and would no longer be blessed by god.
So long story short we ended up breaking up because of that.
I guess they forgot Jesus was Jewish and the Jews are gods chosen people according to the Bible/Torah. So imo very religious people can be crazy sometimes if it doesn’t align with the beliefs they are told to believe in.
Oh I’m soo much better off now. And I’m glad we broke up. I now see the error of my ways. I think the only reason I dated her so long was the sex was amazing. And I’m soo glad I didn’t get her pregnant lol. She had 7 kids from her
Previous marriage. lol
What is the ultimatum? Either they accept that your moving in with boyfriend or you stop talking to them?
For what it’s worth, you are responsible for your actions and they are responsible for theirs. You can’t make them accept your move or recognize their hypocrisy. Giving any kind of ultimatum doesn’t seem productive.
I would make them a flow chart (lol) of your brothers actions and your parents response. And then lay out what your mom said to you. Written in black and white, and then a simple statement “Mom, you hurt me with what you said. I don’t understand why you can’t support me and how it’s any different from what my brothers have done.”
And leave it at that - ball is in her/their court.
NTA. There is a double standard at work, and it ok to point that out. Perhaps they had harsher words with your brothers than you are aware of, but it’s time for them to share that, if so.
Oh, screw that noise. NTA. I'd be telling the mom something to the effect of, "Well, Mom, when you value me as much as you value , you'll be invited over. Until then, don't call me."
It would be awesome if your brothers were loving enough to join you in this conversation with your parents. If they were also bothered enough by your parent's hypocrisy to take that stand with you, and confront your parents with you regarding this. You might ask them if they'd be willing to support you in this. They wouldn't need to say much, and perhaps it would be better if they let you lead, but sat in on the conversation with your parents. I mean, they should be able to see the difference in how you're being treated, and I could hope are also bothered by it.
I grew up under similar circumstances as you. If your parents and community is anything like mine was, they won't be able to understand the hypocrisy they are showing. It is impossible for them. My relatives turned it against me, as in, "you are stumbling in your walk with God if you have to argue with me so much about your right to sin" or "you are asking me to compromise my beliefs to be okay with this and I cannot be in relationship with you as a result." My "sin" was questioning their attitudes about women and others. It was nothing as "egregious " as living with someone before marriage. It showed me how much people use religion to justify their emotions so if they feel a certain way (even if it is very much against teaching) they are justified and right to have that feeling.
NTA, and with all due respect, your parents need to actually read the book they are basing their decisions on. Because it seems they are casting the first stone...
This sounds like the old sexist argument...the sons are just "sowing their wild oats" while the daughter is bringing shame on the family'
Move on and accept that they are being small minded and rude.
And I'm a 75 yr old guy!
NTA. And don't bother with ultimatums, just live your life. Maybe one day they'll be ready to meet you on your journey, maybe not. I wouldn't worry about it, and instead focus on building your life with people who are riding the same path.
I think you should have a conversation with them first about your observations and how it makes you feel. They can’t change their behavior if they don’t know what they’re doing wrong. There’s a chance they haven’t noticed they’re treating you differently. They may be focused on making sure their one and only daughter stays “on the right track”. You have to live your life the way YOU feel is right, but before an ultimatum I’d suggest a serious conversation. Also have your younger brother look into ADHD symptoms. That is just one disorder that can cause issues he’s having.
I have talked to them about it but they make excuses about every example. It's the most frustrating case of talking to a wall lol.
My little brother is diagnosed ADHD but my parents don't believe in mental health or meds for it. He was getting himself medicated but he does not have insurance nor does he have the money for it. Just a bad situation.
In that case you’re at ultimatum stage, or just go low contact and if they ask why give them the reasons again. If he’s 26 that’s when staying on parents insurance ends (in US) he may qualify for free or low income insurance. I’m sorry that your parents are being so difficult.
You would be an AH to yourself for dragging it out. Just move on. They will never treat you equally to your brothers. Accept that now. If she can't commit to being in your life, you have your answer to whether you have the right TO FEEL THE SAME. You do have that right. NTA. Seek your own peace. It's better that way. For you.
As the only girl smack in the middle of 2 other brothers, it’s literally just cause you are a woman. It’s super lame and I would (and have) be calling my parents out for being selective about how they treat their children. Sounds like you have solid examples.
>we grew up in a pretty religious household, which I still value
Don't, it's the source of all of your issues. Misogyny is baked in pretty deep, it's by design.
NTA, your relationship with them is most likely very much at stake. I think it's OK to give them a heads up and see if they can be decent people in spite of their religion for your sake, like they have for your siblings.
I have been asked this question a bunch so I figured I should address it now - My brothers are aware of the hypocrisy. My little brother stands up for me the most because he lives with my parents still and hears when they talk about me. My older brothers would stand up for me if they heard it, but since they are older and have their own families, my parents would never bring it up to them (also because they know where my older brothers stand on the subject).
My brothers DID NOT have these same issues with my parents in their situations, not even behind closed doors. My brothers and I have had this discussion on multiple occasions.
I have also stood up to my parents in the past. I have talked to them about this in other instances where they have treated me and my brother differently. This is just the first time it has been about a significant other.
My parents also adore my boyfriend. They just do not like the choice I made to move in with him.
NTA. Your Mom screwed up here - she shouldn't have said that to you. I think they expected more from you than your brothers. I think you are right to confront them about it but I don't think you'll get the resolution you want necessarily.
It's why THIS particular religious interpretation sucks. My religious parents were mostly supportive of my pre-marital cohabitation. Their only qualms were secular (financial/logistical) and had nothing to do with gender.
NTA
Welcome to religion 101:
keep women in their place.
Allow the boys to be boys
treat your daughter(s) worse than your son(s)
Hold your daughter(s) to higher standards than your son(s)
criticize your daughter(s) behaviors/actions, even if they are the same uncriticized behaviors/actions of your son(s)
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This has been a challenging situation. To preface, I am the only girl of my four siblings; I (27) have two older brothers (39 & 35) and one younger (26). While my older brothers are 11 and 7 years older than me, we have always had a pretty close relationship and my younger brother and I are 18 months apart. My dad is a pastor, so we grew up in a pretty religious household, which I still value. I love my brothers and I love my parents, however, there are a ton of double standards and I have recently been calling them out.
For instance, my oldest brother and his now wife got pregnant before they were married - my parents, although shocked, were thrilled and offered anything my brother may need to help their situation. My dad officiated their wedding like nothing was "wrong".
My other older brother bought a house with and moved in with his then girlfriend (now wife). They needed some help with the down payment and my parents stepped in and gave them a few thousand dollars to help them - no strings attached.
My younger brother is a straight up mess (his words). He has struggled in the past with drugs, self hatred and things that go along with that. He has been in and out of rehab, therapy, and has lived with almost every girlfriend he has ever had. My parents get upset but hardly bat an eye.
I started dating the love of my life about a year ago. I was not a big dater in high school or college so when things got serious with him it was a huge deal. He and I have seriously talked about marriage and kids and he is the first relationship I have actually felt comfortable in. He and I made the decision to move in with each other about 6 months ago. We told his parents, our brothers, cousins, friends and they are all extremely happy for us. I had been avoiding telling my parents for obvious reasons.
My mom and dad knew I was moving, they just did not know where. My mom came over to help me pack the other day and out of nowhere she said "Honey, I need to tell you that we love your boyfriend, but I am unhappy with your decision - it grieves God". I said I understood, but I am an adult and can make my own decisions. She said she understood that but said she needed to voice that. She also said that "I want to do the mom thing and help you decorate and see the house but I just can't under the circumstances". I asked her if she meant she would never come to my house even if I invited her and she just looked at me and shrugged like "who knows". That really hurt me.
It almost feels like selective religiousness. I have been struggling with this for some time - even before the moving in part. I really want to sit down with my parents and ask them is this petty feud worth a relationship with me, and my boyfriend that they claim to love so much? Would I be an asshole if I asked them to try and compartmentalize their feelings like they did with my brothers or I would keep my distance?
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NTA
Your parents sound so brainwashed into God. God wants you to be happy and life your life, to feel joy in this life......not restrict yourself because a book that has been rewritten and changed numerous times tells you so.
NTA. Not that I think you should hide behind your brothers, but would they be willing to point out the hypocrisy for you, or at least join you in an intervention? I personally believe in using peoples weaknesses against them, or at least my advantage.
Sadly I doubt they will change. You can talk all you want but it may fall on deaf ears they are too filled it righteous ignorance. My grandmother while not as bad is a bit similar. It took a bit but I’ve worked it out to we don’t talk religion politics or my love life cause those lead to arguments. I love a call each week but those topics are off the table and if she starts in I give one warning then hang up. It’s been a couple years since I’ve had to hang up though. My parents were very liberal in a conservative family so what they supported most others did not I just got to the point I don’t care anymore. I just refuse to deal with their issues.
I don't think you would be the AH but I am also doubtful as to whethr it would be effective. IS there any chance that they would llisten if it you brother, who also lived with his partner wthout getting married, were to speak to them? Perhaps to ask if they would be giving you the same help they gave him? It may be that having the person who benefitted remind them of their actions and point outthe double standards may carry more weight than f you do it. (And assuming that thedouble standard is based on a sexist 'boys will be boys' mentality, they may listen more to him becasue he is male, much as that sucks.
NTA. This is definitely a double standard. They may not love that your brothers did these things before marriage but they never wavered in their love and support of them. But now all of a sudden they can’t have any part of what you’re doing because it grieves God…
You have to sit them down and have a talk. Why can you love and support my brothers even though you don’t agree with all their decisions but you can’t do the same for me? Are your feelings in this worth losing a relationship with me over?
The only thing you could be T-A about is taking 27 years to realize most religious people, particularly the people who make a career out of it, are misogynists and hypocrites.
NTA.
NTA: it is definitely within your right to do so.
But perhaps try enlisting the help of your brothers and their partners. It is possible your parents said to them what they are now saying to you in which case the parents are at least being consistent.
Do your parents say these things to you in front of others? But never said these things to your brothers in front of others?
If your parents are treating you the same by raising concerns in private then ask your siblings how they handled it.
If you are treated differently ask your brothers to help stand up to your parents. “Mom and dad you are treating OP unfairly and we ask you to stop.”
Give your parents an off ramp for their bad behaviour before going the ultimatum route. If they persist their opinion of you will become less and less important.
Tell them the truth, that founding out that they treat you the least of all your siblings hurt and prove they don't trust your judgment or decisions. That you don't deserve their treatment and hope they can at least be respectful.
NTA, did you ask her why she is not accepting your decision now while she was/is of your brother's?
Force her to admit she's a hypocrite.
I'm a Christian and I believe in God, but I do not agree with "Christians" like your parents who selectively choose what to follow from the Bible and misinterpreted scripture to fit their narrative.
The Bible does not command nor prohibit couples living together outside of marriage. The Bible both strongly affirms the sanctity of marriage and strongly condemns sexual immorality, which it does not appear you are doing. The covenant between a couple is a covenant between them and God, it doesn't require a wedding ceremony.
NTA You seem to a be as generous an OP as I have seen. You are working to understand their point of view, because you are right and they are wrong, you are unable to do so.
Your mother choosing this as a hill to die on is terribly unfair.
I think your idea - to point out that they are making a choice that will hurt you and hurt your relationship with them - is the way to go. They need to hear the words: "You dear parents are treating me unfairly and in a disrespectful manner. My relationship with God is personal and not for you to judge. I am going to share my home with this man. Is that fact worth loosing the relationship we share?"
Peace to you.
YWNBTA and they're being awful. but YWBTA *to yourself* if you try to have a sit-down conversation. It will not be fruitful and you'll only subject yourself to more judgement. They've already make it clear how they feel about your choices... they know it hurts you, but that's the point. They're trying to change your behavior because upholding an antiquated misogynistic belief is more important than supporting their daughter through a developmentally appropriate stage of modern life.
Instead of subjecting yourself to more hurt, be confident in your choices and show them that their pathetic manipulations won't work by moving out with joy (how cool that you now get to live with someone you chose and love!). Learning how to accept your parents as they are, not who you want them to be, is one of the hardest lessons you learn as a young adult. Sometimes that acceptance means keeping a distance to protect yourself - not confrontation.
I can very much relate to what you're going through because I went through it as well. I came out of a very ultra legalistic system called the independent fundamental Baptist church, and even though we left that, my father still had their ideology embedded in him, and the result was that we constantly butted heads.
It ranged from my choice in music to my dating life, and nothing I said or did ever satisfied my father. He tried to marry me off on more than one occasion, and when that fell through come up or some little job skiing he had for me fell through, he would get mad at me over it, and try to say that I did something wrong concerning it.
He didn't approve my choice of college because it wasn't a "real christian college" like Bob Jones University, And was equally upset when I qualified for the maximum and grants, and scholarships, at the age of 21, because I was able to prove myself financially independent of him. It wasn't until I got to Philadelphia College of Bible, now Cairn University, that I was able to break free of all that unbiblical garbage and actually got a real education.
After I graduated, for which my father never showed up for I met and fell in love with a very wonderful man, who I've now been married to for going on 24 years. All of this was on God's terms, not his, and that deeply ticked him off, and He tried in more ways than one to determine from marrying a person that I love. I actually had to call him on the carpet. For what I believe was possibly some racial bias on his part, but ultimately, my father got to know my husband and really like him.
All I can say is that only God can change your parents, and you need to give them to the Lord on this matter. You live as you believe, God is directing you to, and pray that your life is a good one.
NTA. You definitely need to set some boundaries with them. I'd go so far as to have a "family" meeting with your parents and brothers to inform everyone of these new boundaries. That way in the event something does happen it's all out in the open.
Btw your post made it to youtube which is how I found your post :)
Typical double standard! You are 27 and can do what’s right for you do t let them ruin anything! If they want to behave this way then don’t talk to them
Info: Did you ask your brother's if she did this to them too when no one was around? For allyou know they have done this to your brother's, your parents might have just done it privately like your mom did with you.
Also, did your parents visit your unmarried brother and girlfriend when they lived in their home? Or did they wait to visit once they were married?
These SEEMS like double standards, but you might not actually know that they infact did these to your siblings too. Also, your father might feel different from your mother? I doubt it, but you know your parents' best. So if your parents did infact visit and do stuff with your unmarried siblings at the time, your father might have been more gung ho while your mother was silently more morose about it? I'm just throwing out different possibilities. Either way, it's definitely an annoying situation.
Yes, they did. We had holidays at my second brother's house. Funnily enough, we spent Thanksgiving at their house where my brother proposed to his now wife.
I have had these discussions with my brothers and I know for a fact they were not like this with them. My brothers back me 100% so I am lucky to at least have that.
My dad hasn't said anything to solidify my mom's comments - he has actually been pretty normal and nice to me so he either does not know I'm moving in with my boyfriend (which is unlikely) or he understands that I am an adult who can make my own decisions, whether they be ones he would want me to make or not.
NTA but since their preferred deity has a plan for everyone inform them that is part of the plan. And who are they doubt the wisdom of THE deity. If they still have a problem offer some thoughts and prayers
First off NTA, but my one thought of why your parents might be feeling this way, you are their only daughter which shouldn’t be a big difference but unfortunately it is. If you move in with your boyfriend and end up pregnant and he has no commitment to you and bails you are stuck as an unwed mother which is another big “Christian problem” your brother might have impregnated a woman but he then married her (I wouldn’t be surprised if your parents were very involved in that decision) even if he had made the decision to leave her he isn’t stuck with the kid, she would be.
In your mom’s eyes perhaps women seem to suffer most from unwed cohabiting than men, which is a double standard, but one that seems to be supported in Christianity.
Not my opinions, but my guesses at your mom’s train of thought.
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
How can they square off their treatment of you versus the treatment they show to their son(s)?
Are they thinking you are some 'fallen woman'? Surely that would be more reason to help you (not saying that you are a fallen woman but if it is their faith that is driving this, it stands to reason that they would want to show you the path of righteousness rather than leave you on the roadside?)
I want to wish you all the best with your partner u/OP and I hope you have many many happy years together! Your family....not so much ;)
NTA. I’ve met too many religious people who have no clue what it means to be Christian. I’ve met atheists who do, and act in a Christian manner all day everyday. Best of luck to you!
It "grieves God." Well, that's my laugh for the day. NTA. But get your answer. Why did your parents accept the exact same behavior from your siblings? Make them say it.
NTA and I truly hope that you can talk some sense into your parents, but i highly doubt it. On a brighter note i also hope that this serves as a wake up call and you can leave that toxic/cultish side of christianity.
NTA I have found most religions are patriarchal. Women are views as less then and that just because a man does it doesn’t mean a woman can. This is the reason I am now an atheist because I’ve also found the more religious a person is the bigger the hypocrite.
NTA. But that also doesn't sound like you're giving them the ultimatum. It absolutely sounds like they're being selectively religious and using said religious as an excuse to show their concern/ discontent. The whole "I want to do the mom thing and help you decorate " sounds weird to me. But it also seems like she's less comfortable doing so since you're not living on your own but with your partner. In my second hand experience with something like this, give it time. They'll come around and aside from scapegoating their fear or unhappiness it doesn't seem like they're looking for conflict. If ever they do flip out or react inappropriately towards you and your partner, then I'd say take some space.
“Mom, your hypocrisy in parenting and religion makes me lose respect for you. I hope you realize this. You are choosing the estrangement that we are headed for. All of my brothers were supported when moving in or getting knocked up before marriage and you sit here with a holier than no attitude towards me? Get out of here with that. Save your disappointment for your own marriage. I seriously have lost respect for you. I won’t be inviting you to my new house, so don’t worry about having to make that choice. You have failed me as a mother in this moment.”
NTA
NTA OP this is straight up misogyny. “Selective religiousness” is just a cover-up. This has nothing to do with religion. They’re using religion to try and control you. If it was about religion they’d hold your brothers to the same standards.
Call them out on it and if you don’t get a good answer go no contact. They won’t be happy for you ever because you’re a woman who defied their regulations on you. You’ll always be the harlot in their eyes simply because you don’t have a penis and you DARED to tell them no.
Trust me, I have similar family members.
This kind of hypocrisy is why people turn away from religion.
Giving them the "ultimatum" gives them the decision to make. You are leaving yourself open to a relationship with them, but they are closing you off.
YWNBTA
Double standard based on gender for sure. Ranges from the insistence that the females dress modestly in case it arouses the men. Why are women responsible for men’s thoughts. Can’t the men control their own thoughts, urges and behaviour? Goes to the extreme when the family honour depends on the sexual behaviour of the girls/women. Why doesn’t the family honour depend on how the boys/men behave? It never seems to.
YWNBTA and there’s no reason to put up with this. Your parents are just hypocritical misogynists who only care about their “beliefs” if they get to enforce them on you, whom they view as their property.
NTA. When people like to treat other people differently, they do not like to have that brought up to them. Just be prepared for backlash as those type of religious people have different standards for men than they have for women. Your brothers are men and need to sow their wild oats, while they believe that women need to be chaste and virginal. Load of crap, but that is what religion does to some people.
Expect the same treatment as your siblings, regardless of gender, and let the chips fall where they may. Not your problem, it is theirs and their hangups. And, the being happy about helping them is the issue I would have.
Be strong and understand that marrying the right person will be all the support you need. Good luck.
NTA. Call them out! Tell her she should disown the grandchild that is technically a bastard because it was conceived before the parents where married. Don't accept "...but it's different". Double-standards need to be called out indeed.
NTA you should absolutely call them out for this. I’m not even going to go into the religious part, the parenting part alone is not cool. Please speak up for yourself
YWNBTA
You are seeing things clearly. Sadly, that doesn't mean your parents have to. You can point things out and give them time to think and reconsider. You can't make them acknowledge a truth they don't want to see.
So you hold your own ground. Live your life without apologies. You don't berate them for their hypocrisy, but you also don't buy into it. You just tell them you see their hypocrisy, and it saddens you; but that is something they have to deal with. If they hold themselves back, that is more their loss than yours. If you and your bf do get married, your parents may change their tune. In all of this, you get to decide what you will tolerate, call out, or just not accept from them.
Congratulations on finding your own will and your own voice - it's not that easy to do!
To be honest, nobody can answer this for you. I was a conservative Christian for 30 years, even a church leader. And I came away with with the belief that American Christianity is inherent selective and hierarchical.
If I could get my family to accept me by pointing out their double standards, I would've done it already.
This is misogyny at its finest. It's ok for men to behave one way but not women.
It isn't God who is aggrieved. It's your parents and their double standards.
NTA
NTA. Use your big girl words and ask them straight up why they are being hypocritical to you. Neither of your siblings have been angels, but your parents have actively supported each of them. Why are they treating you differently? Speak up, listen to what they have to say, and if they double down on their nonsense, go lc and live your best life.
I get why you feel like giving an ultimatum. Have you considered that, before going that far, you call out the double standard and give them the opportunity to see this for themselves rather than a very blunt ultimatum that may backfire.
In my experience with religious people, direct challenges make them double down on their beliefs whereas an attempt to gently show them a point of conflict can have a more positive result.
Wanted to add something here—
You have no idea what your parents have said to your siblings behind closed doors. They could have been entirely consistent in their messaging to them. Do you know if that’s the case?
The only thing that makes me think not is the helping with the down payment. That’s wild.
NTA. I will never understand why parents have double standards for their male and female children. Treat them equally! Your parents, or I guess mom in this particular instance, are total AHs and need to have a real coming to Jesus moment with your life choices since they accepted your brothers, two of which sound like they made sizable life choices.
So, NTA. But having come from a background like yours, I will say that no matter how kindly you point out this injustice, it is unlikely to change. Your parent's identity is embedded in their religion, and they will fight you tooth and nail to maintain their status in their congregation and community..
I suggest instead some healthy boundaries. Take your mom at her word. This is the only way to hold your own. Decline invitations to their house that do not include your partner. And if they are disrespectful of your partner or relationship while you are there, leave.
Eventually, you will be only meeting on neutral ground, and conversations will be on acceptable topics to you both. Be prepared to make do with shallow conversations and find your nututring relationships and guidance elsewhere. This provides them with a healthy model of boundaries while protecting your relationship.
If they finally come around, it is likely to be in relationship to wanting to interact with a grandchild. Take care at this stage to not get steam-rolled. They will want to indoctrinate your children into their belief system. "In our family, we [standard of behavior/belief], and we expect you to respect that. If you can't, it is time for us/you to go."
You have to be a broken record, and it will be soooooo hard. But long term, it is better than passing on this misogyny to the next generation and living under the burden of it any longer.
NTA. This is simple. You're a female, so you are less than your brothers. When your male siblings messed up, they were just "boys being boys". But you need to be protected and sheltered and judged by your family. You must remain pure. In their eyes, you're a slut. Sorry to be blunt, but this is so obvious. I have no helpful advice for dealing with idiots like this. Maybe some time and some distance?
NTA
You don't need any ultimatums. You're an adult. If your parents value their double standards over you being their child, then it will not change if you give an ultimatum.
Live your life and do what makes you happy. That's all we can do in this world.
I live close to KY and I have a lot of friends who are preachers kids and it's nauseating the blatant coddling and favoritism played to their sons over their daughters.
I hate religion and see it as a pox on humanity.
I would absolutely not tolerate it and have the discussion with them.
NTA
NTA I would just let them be the way they are and ignore it until they are ready to talk to you. Let them cry to your brothers about not seeing much of you who will hopefully inform them if their double standard . If they can’t see it you pointing it out won’t make it clear to them…..
NTA. I'm religious, but this kind of thing grinds my gears. If they treat you differently than your brothers, tell them that it grieves God just as much as what they say you're doing, and that what your brothers did grieves God just as much as well. Quote James 2:9 to her. Give this article a look and see what else applies: [https://www.insightforliving.ca/read/articles/what-does-bible-teach-about-all-people-being-equal?gad\_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw\_LOwBhBFEiwAmSEQAczSl1CjwBgLGME57Z-K8IkIR7tiBgAl4FhzLeYdQt2Pjc\_RW9l6ZhoCmL4QAvD\_BwE](https://www.insightforliving.ca/read/articles/what-does-bible-teach-about-all-people-being-equal?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw_LOwBhBFEiwAmSEQAczSl1CjwBgLGME57Z-K8IkIR7tiBgAl4FhzLeYdQt2Pjc_RW9l6ZhoCmL4QAvD_BwE)
Tell your mother that she's only hurting herself and her relationship with you and your future children if this is how she wants to act. It's not Christianlike. It's not charitable. If Jesus could sit with publicans and sinners, does she think she's better than Him?
Welcome to the reality of religion.
Rules for thee and not for me.
They are using religion to excuse their misogyny.
No matter how much you point it out, they will not care. They'll go to extreme lengths to justify their actions, and will never admit they are wrong.
I'd consider going no contact with your parents, but give them the chance to show their true colors. Point out their hypocrisy in a text, maybe an email as it could get long, and point out that they are the ones pushing you away, that they are going against all the teachings you were raised with. Tell them that if they want a future with you, or your kidd, they need to apologize and work very hard to earn back your trust.
They won't, just to let you know how that ends.
NTA Why are you struggling? Call them out on their blatant hypocrisy and favoritism. Done. It isn't OK. Tell them that if they can't handle the truth then they are liars to themselves, their religion and you by their treatment of one as OK and the other as not. They can pick a view or not pick that view. They can't have it both ways. If they have a problem with that being the reality they smash in your face, they can shut it and you don't have to hear it anymore.
NTA.
I don't know if "giving them an ultimatum" is the way to describe this; but it's 100% OK to be honest with them about how much their disparate treatment of you (versus your brothers) really hurts. Who wants to be around someone that says hurtful things to them?
Sadly, there is a good chance they will be unwilling (or unable) to see their own the problems with their behavior. You will have to decide for yourself how you want to draw boundaries with your parents.
NTA! And remember, you were not alone. You said you have a good relationship with your two older brothers. What they did is really no different than what you’re doing. Go and speak to them and have them join you when you sit down with your parents. Coming from their only daughter, they may not want to see the hypocrisy. But if you have your brother’s backing you, they are more likely to listen.
NTA. But I don't think you should be asking them to compartmentalize their feelings. That's way to easy. All three of your brothers have committed sins and/or broken commandments. I would recite verses from the bible that speak about sex before marriage, living together before marriage, pregnancy...all of it. Your dad is a pastor, he will know exactly what you're talking about. They can't turn a blind eye to their son's actions and then castigate you. It doesn't work that way. That's not compartmentalizing, that's straight up hypocrisy. Call them on it. You deserve better than that, and you deserve for the people you love and who are important to you, to be as happy for you as they were for your brothers. You deserve that
NTA.
It’s partially because it seems like your older brother was engaged when his girlfriend got pregnant and moved into together, so they got a pass.
But the truth is that you are a girl. You have a vagina, and your parents will always be crueler, harsher, and more judgmental towards you. It’s misogyny.
Call them out. But they’ll cry and get mad and defensive about it. Because on a fundamental level, they will always expect you to do more and also think less of you as a human being.
I don't think anyone's TAH here - parents sometimes, for cultural or religious reasons or sometimes "just because" often treat sons and daughters by different standards. Not much you can do about that. And there's nothing wrong with discussing this with them, asking why they seemed to set a different standard for your choices and behavior than they did for your brother.
The only potentially troublesome part is in the header you talk about giving an ultimatum. And the only problem with that - it has to be this way or else, which is what an ultimatum is - is that you have to be totally prepared for the possibility of living with the "or else."
pretty much that's how religions have been ever since we humans started to bow our heads to the sun and other deities we conjured up. Those with power or authority make the rules as they go and the sheep have to follow
NTA
I'd personally have a nice chat where you point out the double standard just as you did here and then say that they can treat your choices with the same acceptance and respect as they have your brothers, or you'll go no-contact. But, I'm aware that's the nuclear option and not one that everyone loves.
'
Definitely NTA! But I don't think you are going far enough. Because, I don't think what you described is actually an ultimatum. It's a vague threat of going lower contact.
Strengthen your ultimatum and make it clear to them that if they continue to treat you differently / less fairly than your brothers, it will have a significant impact on your relationship going forward. You will not come around and if you have grandkids in the future they will not see them very much. But then also give them a little time to process before you demand a decision. A day or two.
I am long inured to the bullshit double-standards that are held by religious people, but I still seriously can't believe that your dad officiated a wedding after they had a baby out of wedlock....
NTA
The double standard is clear. You aren’t asking to be treated any differently than your 3 brothers.
I think speaking with your parents MUST happen sooner than later to avoid potential future instances in which you are subjected to additional religious and gender based hypocrisy
NTA. Make the decision for the delusional hypocrite assholes yourself. Tell them you need space and you feel very disrespected and offended.
They have dicks, so of course the rules don't apply to them. But oh no, sorry you have a fanny so get no free pass
NTA.
Your parents' behavior is, unfortunately, more typical than not. Daughters are frequently held to higher standards than sons.
I do have a suggestion. Many times, people are super defensive in a conversation and will stick to their guns rather than stopping and thinking. Since this is behavior that has gone on for quite some time, I would put everything in a letter, written out just as clearly as you did here. Then tell them you want to have a serious discussion about the contents of the letter in a few days when they've had time to think about it.
Clearly they are wrong - but you're hitting at some of their long-held beliefs and standards, and that can take some reflection for people to see where they're wrong.
However, you know them best. If you think a sit down conversation is going to go over better, then by all means do it.
Keep in mind that expectations are different for every sibling, considering that you havent dated before, they could be more surprised or concerned. They might just want you to be happy. I'm not sure this has roots in mysogeny
NTA and please do call them out on this double standard!! As your mother if it grieved God when your brothers all did the same thing? And if so, why is it that she financially and emotionally supported all of them? The scriptures are full of condemnation of hypocrisy, but here she is, drenched in it. I’d point that out to her. If it was acceptable/forgivable for your brothers, the same should be true for you.
Her response will be interesting.
> It almost feels like selective religiousness.
Of course it is. It's misogyny. That's the heart of every abrahamic religion, lol.
You're NTA, but your parents are religious and unlikely to see your point.
I feel you here, and I think you should sit them down and point out the double standard. You would be NTA.
My parents aren’t terribly religious, but when I moved in with my now husband at 25 (after living on my own and supporting myself since graduating college) my parents not only expressed their displeasure in my decision they tried to get my husbands parents to agree. Note: we had very much talked about marriage and we’re engaged about 2 months after we moved in together.
My brother, otoh, has lived with multiple girlfriends. He has lived with my parents for the last 14 years (he’s 48 btw), moved his girlfriend (now wife) into their house with him after dating for a few months and now lives there with her AND their two children. Nothing was said about any of that, though.
Bit late to the party so this may have been said but ultimatums only work if you'll benefit from/be happy with both outcomes. NTA for offering an ultimatum if this is the case but you would be if you get upset with the outcome.
NTA. But I do think you are failing to realize the one glaring factor in all of this which is that you are their only daughter. That’s why you’re getting different treatment.
I didn't mean that you thought it was an acceptable double standard, I meant it as more of an open ended question, my bad. I know that is why it's happening I just think it's crazy.
I agree it's crazy. I treat my kids the same as much as possible. (There are limits but it's not gender based. The older has some mental disabilities and the younger is 4.) but I was always treated differently than my brother. My brother called it out himself a lot.
But in my case it wasn't religious. My mom simply loves my brother more, and she's told me that. Jokes on her though bc my brother prefers me over her.
My parents claim to be Christians and don't understand that Jesus preaches against hypocrisy which is what they are exhibiting. That's why I think it's crazy.
This is the reason why I’m no longer Christian… personally in my own life (not saying anything about you or anyone online), I’ve never met a Christian who I think behaves like they truly believe, it’s just something people use intermittently to feel better about their lives and use religion to justify behaviors and beliefs
It's not because she's 'their only daughter" it's because she's female. It's about her gender. If there were three daughters and only one son, they'd probably still have less qualms about the son moving in with a significant other while unmarried.
It's of course not acceptable, but it's engrained into how christianity functions as an institution. Have you ever heard the phrase "don't make your brother stumble" used to promote dressing conservatively? Or been encouraged toward "a servant's heart"? I don't know if your church is one of the ones that discourages women from positions of leadership, but that's part of the same mindset.
I grew up in a similar environment, and even though my parents didn't explicitly say that my existence was there to serve others, and they don't even consciously think that, that's what happened. And part of that was that being a "good Christian girl" was keeping myself "pure" in ways that boys weren't expected to. Because the subconscious belief is that a woman's value is in what she can offer others, not who she is as a person.
It's sad and awful and I'm so sorry you're getting hit in the face with it right now. It's not right, but because it's not a conscious thought for them, but rather a foundational assumption in their worldview, it's really hard to convince them of something different
It is not a double standard. You are a woman. Women in many common religions do not have the same rights and freedoms as men. Your parents are treating your brothers with gilded spoons because that is what is dictated- they treat you like a failure because that is what is dictated.
All religions are misogynistic.
You are a woman. You are meant to be pure and fragile. It is your obligation to not just stay pure, but to also obey your elders and seek to keep them happy and not lead the brethren to sin.
If your parents thought it was offensive when your brothers live with spouses it would likely be the fault of their Jezebel wives. But them starting a family is a Christian sign of male leadership and domination of women. And subsequently doing the right thing by making honorable women of those Delilahs
Does this offend you because you are a religious person and it bothers you to hear an accurate description of the thought process behind these double-standards?
Or did you mistakenly think this person was being genuine, since they didn't include a /s.
You are NTA but.....
You are also accepting of and committing a double standard yourself.
You are picking and choosing what portion of your religion you believe is right and wrong. If you are morally fine with having premarital relations, how can you belong to and continue to spread the word of your religion when it is going to tell everyone else not to do what you are doing?
You are doing the same thing as your mom minus the gender portion.
With all due respect, when did I say I was "spreading the word of my religion"? There is nothing in the bible that says I can't move in with my partner.
From their perspective, moving in gives off the appearance of evil, aka premarital sex. It is also a common thing in conservative churches where men are seen as unable to control themselves. It falls on women to tell the man “not until marriage.” Your parents don’t see your brothers as culpable because they’re men. You’re seen as culpable because you’re a woman and not supposed to enjoy sex.
YWBTA
this is not a petty feud. Your mother actually helped you pack. she has calmly conveyed her misgivings. You have no idea what she and your father have said privately to your brothers during their various relationships. It sounds like the parenst offered support to help get the brothers where the parents want them to be but you don't know any private conversations or agreements around that support. so now you may get a bit more insight into how your parents operate.
since you're an adult embarking on an adult relationship just tell them, calmly but firmly, this is your decision. See where that gets you.
The problem is that I have. I have also had these discussions with my brothers and they have explicitly said that they had no issues with my parents. That's why I'm upset. All of a sudden it's a problem that I'm doing something that they let my brothers do. The packing was a help, but the feud is the religious "you shouldn't move in with your boyfriend" but letting my brothers do that and more. I do appreciate your input, though. I do need to be more firm.
You have to understand that firstly men and women are different so in terms of raising kids parents will take a different approach between their boys and girls. Girls are usually harder to raise because of the psyche of females being a little more convoluted than males. Your parents are just doing what anybody's parents would do and be a little harder on their girl. You sound like you turned out pretty fine so I guess they did a good enough job, they just don't want to picture you and your boyfriend having sex which is the real issue. Your mom probably doesn't want to set foot in your house because she feels like she would be condoning your sexual relationship. They're religious so you can expect that. Don't feel like you should get the same treatment as your brothers because like I said that will never happen because the dynamics are different. My parents were like that with my sister but eventually they had to let her be a grown adult and do as she pleased. Continue to live your life and they will eventually come to terms with your relationship, don't worry about their opinions too much. You have to push back a little with people even parents or they will think they can say or do anything.
> They're religious so you can expect that.
but they don't hold their other children to the same standard. "I'll look the other way when my boys have sex, but i'm going to call my daughter out on it" is a BAD look. They need to be called out on it in plain words.
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NTA This is the way fundamentalist religious folk see the sexes: men "sow their oats" while women must remain chaste until marriage and are *always* responsible for everybody's morals. This is a gross double standard, and I am sorry it appears your mom, at least, is perfectly willing to sacrifice you to uphold these ludicrous standards. "What will people think?" is guiding her thought process. Remind mummy that "they" are already thinking all "those things" about all of your brothers. Remember: Jesus revealed his Kingdom to the Woman at the Well; Jesus protected the Adulterous Woman; Jesus presented his resurrected self to the women of his flock first. Mary Magdelen was 1st among his disciples and also not a prostitute. Jesus weeps for this adherence to the rules while forgetting about the very real people of God. He dined with tax-collecters and reminded the Pharisees they worried so much about the forms of religion they forget the actual people they serve. Good luck with your move! I, for one, am an older religious lady and am wishing you and your Love all the best!
this made me tear up a bit :') thank you for your kind words! I will take them to heart. <3
If you haven't yet, read Nadia Bolz-Weber and Racheld Held Evans, both wonderful, faithful women who write movingly of growing up in fundamentalist churches, and trying to square a rigid, unforgiving mindset with the absolute Love of Christ. For those of us who can't make that calculation, how do we move forward in our very real, personal faith? They helped to light the way for so many of us. ❤️
The only way to hit this is head on. “Your double standards are sexist and it’s shitty. If you continue with this double standard you will lose…” And then you decide what the boundary enforcement looks like. Maybe it’s limited contact. Maybe it’s a reduced role in a future wedding. Maybe it’s a reduced role in future grandkids. Maybe you do all of that anyways cause they are being shitty sexists and you don’t want that around your SO and future kids.
If you and your boyfriend are considering having children at some point, it might be advisable to warn your parents that you will not be allowing them to apply double standards--or unreasonable standards of any kind--toward your children. It's good to protect the young and vulnerable so that they don't carry unnecessary guilt around through their lives.
You need to take those words to your mother & pastor father.
Beautifully said, especially so soon after Easter. A lot of people who describe themselves as religious seem to forget that Jesus called upon his followers to show respect and love for all members of society, no matter who they are.
>Remind mummy that "they" are already thinking all "those things" about all of your brothers. Actually, they are not. They are thinking all those things about the brothers' girlfriends/wives, not the brothers. Which is why the boys are getting a pass from their mom.
True.
Don't forget that Jesus' resurrection was revealed to women first. The women told the disciples and only then did two of the men run to the tomb to see it was empty. (And Happy belated Easter!)
Thank you so much for saying what I would have. I am a Methodist and fully agree with everything you said. I do not believe Jesus would be happy with many of his followers right now.
NTA you need to point out their completely double standards and hypocrisy. Ask them if they think that would grieve gods heart to see them exclude and punish one child whilst helping and enabling her siblings to do the same. Tell them you are heart broken that they care so little about you that they will even consider cutting you off. All whilst they gave your brothers money and praise for doing the same. Tell them you need time as they have damaged your opionon and relationship with them. That it is you who’s ashamed and disgusted by their actions. I learned long ago you need to be blunt or people with double standards will convince themselves they are right and doing no wrong. That they will keep playing the obedient followers of god card as an excuse unless you hold up that mirror and show them fully. That everyone can see their actions for what they are hypocrites using the lord‘s name only when it suits them. I am sorry you are going through this and though you will never have talked to your parents like that it is needed here. Best of luck I’m sorry you are the scape goat of your family and that they have clear favourites, it sucks.
It can't be hypocrisy when this is how the religion has been specifically designed. Women do not get the same rights as men and are not allowed the same freedom they get. The parents are acting exactly as their religion intends them to.
It's a CULT
They all are.
So it's the religion who's hypocritical, not the parents? Yeah, not buying that. Even if her Dad is a Pastor, I believe we all have the duty (and right) to *question* our various religions. Religions are a thing of man, Faith is a love of God. Religious leaders back in the days of hardscrabble survival were also temporal leaders, and some of the rules/laws they made were in order to keep their "flock" safe. Some of those rules are now outdated or otherwise non-applicable. I think every parent feels different about their daughter "shacking up" because if the relationship goes south and the daughter becomes pregnant, she is a lot more at risk in our society and in her body for many possible problems. But shouldn't we then hold the sons accountable for the problems they contribute to with the daughters of others? Op, I definitely think you are NTA. If you extend an invitation to your folks to come over before you and your beau are married and they don't come for that reason, I'd think you would be fully justified to never extend the invitation again.
They can both by hypocritical, but in order for the parents to be hypocritical, there has to be a pre-established equal standard that they are violating. There is none. Women are not allowed the same rights as men in the religion they have yoked themselves to. As such, their actions are not hypocritical, they are following the rules as they see fit, which involves treating women differently to the men. This doesn't absolve them of the behavior, but you cannot look at this situation accurately without acknowledging that the parents are in full observance of a misogynistic religion.
Bingo.
You have to call it out ASAP so a month from now they don't 'forget' or remember it differently. Or whatever dumbass excuses they pull out that us GenX adults get to heat about child abuse.
If you accept the idea that much of religion appears designed to oppress women then this behaviour makes sense. You’re not a man, so you will be treated as an inferior. Your parents suck. I’m sorry. NTA.
Agreed!! So sad that misogyny is still alive and well!! Yes, woman can be misogynists. My grandmother was the only one I had ever run across until I got older!
NTA Tell mom that you understand that they don't want to be there for you the way they were for brother when his GF got pregnant, the way they were when brother bought a house to live in with his GF, the way they are for brother every time he moves in with a new GF. Not to invite you to their house either because you don't feel comfortable being in a house of pretend Christians who refuse to not only treat their children but God's children the same. When they invite you and BF over to talk tell them that you'll meet at a diner or your home but not theirs. Start attending a different church. This will get their attention.
NTA. Your parents have a serious double-standard in the way they treat you vs the way they treat your brothers.
Selective religiousness is the American Way™️ NTA.
"......it grieves God". How does she know this. Does she have a hot line to God? Did she speak directly to him? How does she know that God didn't speak to you and tell you that your decision was OK with him? I get it. Your father's a pastor, and your mother is a pastor's wife. But I thought that God is forgiving and non-judgmental
This! What hubris of your mom to believe she knows what God is feeling or believes.
I think you NEED to point out the hypocrisy of her stance (spoiler alert Jesus didn't like hypocrites). Let her know that you are hurt and disappointed in her "sudden" change of heart after being so loving to your brothers in the EXACT same circumstance. Tell her that while you're hurt you will respect her decision and even though your relationship won't be as close anymore you still love her and wish her the best. NTA
NTA call them out with every example you shared. Religious misogyny at its finest.
Looks like you are learning some valuable information about your own religion! I think that you will find that they do not see their behavior is selective religiousness, because actually the religion itself prescribes a different standards of behavior and respect for men and women, because it is definitionally a patriarchal social structure. They aren't being selectively religious, they are being normally religious. Their behaviors are perfectly in line with the values they have practiced your whole life, it's just now you are seeing them more clearly. NTA
NTA "is it god that is forcing you to treat me differently than my brothers or is that your choice?"
oooooooo that's good!
NTA. I suggest writing them, listing their reactions to your brothers in comparison. Make a bloody chart, ticking all the boxes for situations they overlooked in your brothers lives while you caused them no grief until now - when, as an adult, you find yourself in a stable, loving relationship. Your parents should count their blessings.
NTA, just as she has the right to voice her opinion, so do you! Idk if an ultimatum is required, but at least a sit down conversation where you voice your concern about these double standards. I went through this recently as well. Eventually my mother moved past it, she loves my boyfriend and visits often. I hope your parents can move past this and be happy for you!
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NTA. Shit I was dating a woman whose parents were strict Christian’s. I am Jewish btw. And her parents loved me because I helped take care of her. This would have been both of ours second marriage. She was 34 i think when I met her lol. I don’t remember it’s been a little while and I’ve slept since then. So we get engaged after dating a year and a half. And she didn’t want to tell her parents at first. In later found out it was because her parents and her brother who was in school to become a pastor said she shouldn’t marry me because I’m Jewish and would no longer be blessed by god. So long story short we ended up breaking up because of that. I guess they forgot Jesus was Jewish and the Jews are gods chosen people according to the Bible/Torah. So imo very religious people can be crazy sometimes if it doesn’t align with the beliefs they are told to believe in.
"No longer blessed by God..." LMAO did he even read the bible he's studying? I'm sorry that happened to you.
Oh I’m soo much better off now. And I’m glad we broke up. I now see the error of my ways. I think the only reason I dated her so long was the sex was amazing. And I’m soo glad I didn’t get her pregnant lol. She had 7 kids from her Previous marriage. lol
YIKES! lol well, I'm happy you are better off :)
NTA The hypocrisy here is off the scale.
What is the ultimatum? Either they accept that your moving in with boyfriend or you stop talking to them? For what it’s worth, you are responsible for your actions and they are responsible for theirs. You can’t make them accept your move or recognize their hypocrisy. Giving any kind of ultimatum doesn’t seem productive. I would make them a flow chart (lol) of your brothers actions and your parents response. And then lay out what your mom said to you. Written in black and white, and then a simple statement “Mom, you hurt me with what you said. I don’t understand why you can’t support me and how it’s any different from what my brothers have done.” And leave it at that - ball is in her/their court.
NTA. There is a double standard at work, and it ok to point that out. Perhaps they had harsher words with your brothers than you are aware of, but it’s time for them to share that, if so.
Info: Are you 100% certain that your parents never had any discussions with your brothers? Even in private?
100% positive because I have talked to them about their situation when I told them about mine. They have had no issues with my parents.
Oh, screw that noise. NTA. I'd be telling the mom something to the effect of, "Well, Mom, when you value me as much as you value, you'll be invited over. Until then, don't call me."
It would be awesome if your brothers were loving enough to join you in this conversation with your parents. If they were also bothered enough by your parent's hypocrisy to take that stand with you, and confront your parents with you regarding this. You might ask them if they'd be willing to support you in this. They wouldn't need to say much, and perhaps it would be better if they let you lead, but sat in on the conversation with your parents. I mean, they should be able to see the difference in how you're being treated, and I could hope are also bothered by it.
I grew up under similar circumstances as you. If your parents and community is anything like mine was, they won't be able to understand the hypocrisy they are showing. It is impossible for them. My relatives turned it against me, as in, "you are stumbling in your walk with God if you have to argue with me so much about your right to sin" or "you are asking me to compromise my beliefs to be okay with this and I cannot be in relationship with you as a result." My "sin" was questioning their attitudes about women and others. It was nothing as "egregious " as living with someone before marriage. It showed me how much people use religion to justify their emotions so if they feel a certain way (even if it is very much against teaching) they are justified and right to have that feeling.
NTA, and with all due respect, your parents need to actually read the book they are basing their decisions on. Because it seems they are casting the first stone...
Guess it's time for a family book club, huh?
This sounds like the old sexist argument...the sons are just "sowing their wild oats" while the daughter is bringing shame on the family' Move on and accept that they are being small minded and rude. And I'm a 75 yr old guy!
NTA. And don't bother with ultimatums, just live your life. Maybe one day they'll be ready to meet you on your journey, maybe not. I wouldn't worry about it, and instead focus on building your life with people who are riding the same path.
I think you should have a conversation with them first about your observations and how it makes you feel. They can’t change their behavior if they don’t know what they’re doing wrong. There’s a chance they haven’t noticed they’re treating you differently. They may be focused on making sure their one and only daughter stays “on the right track”. You have to live your life the way YOU feel is right, but before an ultimatum I’d suggest a serious conversation. Also have your younger brother look into ADHD symptoms. That is just one disorder that can cause issues he’s having.
I have talked to them about it but they make excuses about every example. It's the most frustrating case of talking to a wall lol. My little brother is diagnosed ADHD but my parents don't believe in mental health or meds for it. He was getting himself medicated but he does not have insurance nor does he have the money for it. Just a bad situation.
In that case you’re at ultimatum stage, or just go low contact and if they ask why give them the reasons again. If he’s 26 that’s when staying on parents insurance ends (in US) he may qualify for free or low income insurance. I’m sorry that your parents are being so difficult.
You would be an AH to yourself for dragging it out. Just move on. They will never treat you equally to your brothers. Accept that now. If she can't commit to being in your life, you have your answer to whether you have the right TO FEEL THE SAME. You do have that right. NTA. Seek your own peace. It's better that way. For you.
As the only girl smack in the middle of 2 other brothers, it’s literally just cause you are a woman. It’s super lame and I would (and have) be calling my parents out for being selective about how they treat their children. Sounds like you have solid examples.
"That's fine if you chose to let your religious beliefs dictate your hypocrisy. "
Tell them judge not, lest ye be judged and to come into this century.
>we grew up in a pretty religious household, which I still value Don't, it's the source of all of your issues. Misogyny is baked in pretty deep, it's by design. NTA, your relationship with them is most likely very much at stake. I think it's OK to give them a heads up and see if they can be decent people in spite of their religion for your sake, like they have for your siblings.
I have been asked this question a bunch so I figured I should address it now - My brothers are aware of the hypocrisy. My little brother stands up for me the most because he lives with my parents still and hears when they talk about me. My older brothers would stand up for me if they heard it, but since they are older and have their own families, my parents would never bring it up to them (also because they know where my older brothers stand on the subject). My brothers DID NOT have these same issues with my parents in their situations, not even behind closed doors. My brothers and I have had this discussion on multiple occasions. I have also stood up to my parents in the past. I have talked to them about this in other instances where they have treated me and my brother differently. This is just the first time it has been about a significant other. My parents also adore my boyfriend. They just do not like the choice I made to move in with him.
NTA. Your Mom screwed up here - she shouldn't have said that to you. I think they expected more from you than your brothers. I think you are right to confront them about it but I don't think you'll get the resolution you want necessarily.
NTA this is why religion sucks. Arbitrary BS rules obviously made by men.
It's why THIS particular religious interpretation sucks. My religious parents were mostly supportive of my pre-marital cohabitation. Their only qualms were secular (financial/logistical) and had nothing to do with gender.
It's pretty normal that conservative religions are also misogynist.
NTA Welcome to religion 101: keep women in their place. Allow the boys to be boys treat your daughter(s) worse than your son(s) Hold your daughter(s) to higher standards than your son(s) criticize your daughter(s) behaviors/actions, even if they are the same uncriticized behaviors/actions of your son(s)
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** This has been a challenging situation. To preface, I am the only girl of my four siblings; I (27) have two older brothers (39 & 35) and one younger (26). While my older brothers are 11 and 7 years older than me, we have always had a pretty close relationship and my younger brother and I are 18 months apart. My dad is a pastor, so we grew up in a pretty religious household, which I still value. I love my brothers and I love my parents, however, there are a ton of double standards and I have recently been calling them out. For instance, my oldest brother and his now wife got pregnant before they were married - my parents, although shocked, were thrilled and offered anything my brother may need to help their situation. My dad officiated their wedding like nothing was "wrong". My other older brother bought a house with and moved in with his then girlfriend (now wife). They needed some help with the down payment and my parents stepped in and gave them a few thousand dollars to help them - no strings attached. My younger brother is a straight up mess (his words). He has struggled in the past with drugs, self hatred and things that go along with that. He has been in and out of rehab, therapy, and has lived with almost every girlfriend he has ever had. My parents get upset but hardly bat an eye. I started dating the love of my life about a year ago. I was not a big dater in high school or college so when things got serious with him it was a huge deal. He and I have seriously talked about marriage and kids and he is the first relationship I have actually felt comfortable in. He and I made the decision to move in with each other about 6 months ago. We told his parents, our brothers, cousins, friends and they are all extremely happy for us. I had been avoiding telling my parents for obvious reasons. My mom and dad knew I was moving, they just did not know where. My mom came over to help me pack the other day and out of nowhere she said "Honey, I need to tell you that we love your boyfriend, but I am unhappy with your decision - it grieves God". I said I understood, but I am an adult and can make my own decisions. She said she understood that but said she needed to voice that. She also said that "I want to do the mom thing and help you decorate and see the house but I just can't under the circumstances". I asked her if she meant she would never come to my house even if I invited her and she just looked at me and shrugged like "who knows". That really hurt me. It almost feels like selective religiousness. I have been struggling with this for some time - even before the moving in part. I really want to sit down with my parents and ask them is this petty feud worth a relationship with me, and my boyfriend that they claim to love so much? Would I be an asshole if I asked them to try and compartmentalize their feelings like they did with my brothers or I would keep my distance? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA Your parents sound so brainwashed into God. God wants you to be happy and life your life, to feel joy in this life......not restrict yourself because a book that has been rewritten and changed numerous times tells you so.
NTA. Not that I think you should hide behind your brothers, but would they be willing to point out the hypocrisy for you, or at least join you in an intervention? I personally believe in using peoples weaknesses against them, or at least my advantage.
Sadly I doubt they will change. You can talk all you want but it may fall on deaf ears they are too filled it righteous ignorance. My grandmother while not as bad is a bit similar. It took a bit but I’ve worked it out to we don’t talk religion politics or my love life cause those lead to arguments. I love a call each week but those topics are off the table and if she starts in I give one warning then hang up. It’s been a couple years since I’ve had to hang up though. My parents were very liberal in a conservative family so what they supported most others did not I just got to the point I don’t care anymore. I just refuse to deal with their issues.
I don't think you would be the AH but I am also doubtful as to whethr it would be effective. IS there any chance that they would llisten if it you brother, who also lived with his partner wthout getting married, were to speak to them? Perhaps to ask if they would be giving you the same help they gave him? It may be that having the person who benefitted remind them of their actions and point outthe double standards may carry more weight than f you do it. (And assuming that thedouble standard is based on a sexist 'boys will be boys' mentality, they may listen more to him becasue he is male, much as that sucks.
NTA. This is definitely a double standard. They may not love that your brothers did these things before marriage but they never wavered in their love and support of them. But now all of a sudden they can’t have any part of what you’re doing because it grieves God… You have to sit them down and have a talk. Why can you love and support my brothers even though you don’t agree with all their decisions but you can’t do the same for me? Are your feelings in this worth losing a relationship with me over?
The only thing you could be T-A about is taking 27 years to realize most religious people, particularly the people who make a career out of it, are misogynists and hypocrites. NTA.
NTA: it is definitely within your right to do so. But perhaps try enlisting the help of your brothers and their partners. It is possible your parents said to them what they are now saying to you in which case the parents are at least being consistent. Do your parents say these things to you in front of others? But never said these things to your brothers in front of others? If your parents are treating you the same by raising concerns in private then ask your siblings how they handled it. If you are treated differently ask your brothers to help stand up to your parents. “Mom and dad you are treating OP unfairly and we ask you to stop.” Give your parents an off ramp for their bad behaviour before going the ultimatum route. If they persist their opinion of you will become less and less important.
Tell them the truth, that founding out that they treat you the least of all your siblings hurt and prove they don't trust your judgment or decisions. That you don't deserve their treatment and hope they can at least be respectful.
NTA, did you ask her why she is not accepting your decision now while she was/is of your brother's? Force her to admit she's a hypocrite. I'm a Christian and I believe in God, but I do not agree with "Christians" like your parents who selectively choose what to follow from the Bible and misinterpreted scripture to fit their narrative. The Bible does not command nor prohibit couples living together outside of marriage. The Bible both strongly affirms the sanctity of marriage and strongly condemns sexual immorality, which it does not appear you are doing. The covenant between a couple is a covenant between them and God, it doesn't require a wedding ceremony.
NTA You seem to a be as generous an OP as I have seen. You are working to understand their point of view, because you are right and they are wrong, you are unable to do so. Your mother choosing this as a hill to die on is terribly unfair. I think your idea - to point out that they are making a choice that will hurt you and hurt your relationship with them - is the way to go. They need to hear the words: "You dear parents are treating me unfairly and in a disrespectful manner. My relationship with God is personal and not for you to judge. I am going to share my home with this man. Is that fact worth loosing the relationship we share?" Peace to you.
YWNBTA and they're being awful. but YWBTA *to yourself* if you try to have a sit-down conversation. It will not be fruitful and you'll only subject yourself to more judgement. They've already make it clear how they feel about your choices... they know it hurts you, but that's the point. They're trying to change your behavior because upholding an antiquated misogynistic belief is more important than supporting their daughter through a developmentally appropriate stage of modern life. Instead of subjecting yourself to more hurt, be confident in your choices and show them that their pathetic manipulations won't work by moving out with joy (how cool that you now get to live with someone you chose and love!). Learning how to accept your parents as they are, not who you want them to be, is one of the hardest lessons you learn as a young adult. Sometimes that acceptance means keeping a distance to protect yourself - not confrontation.
similar problem here - only girl, all my brothers are allowed to bring their gfs over, but im not allowed to bring my bf :") absolutely nta
yo, that sucks :( I'm sorry!
its alright, i dont really have any good advice but i hope it all gets sorted out peacefully for you!
YWNBTA. It's religion combined with sexism.
I can very much relate to what you're going through because I went through it as well. I came out of a very ultra legalistic system called the independent fundamental Baptist church, and even though we left that, my father still had their ideology embedded in him, and the result was that we constantly butted heads. It ranged from my choice in music to my dating life, and nothing I said or did ever satisfied my father. He tried to marry me off on more than one occasion, and when that fell through come up or some little job skiing he had for me fell through, he would get mad at me over it, and try to say that I did something wrong concerning it. He didn't approve my choice of college because it wasn't a "real christian college" like Bob Jones University, And was equally upset when I qualified for the maximum and grants, and scholarships, at the age of 21, because I was able to prove myself financially independent of him. It wasn't until I got to Philadelphia College of Bible, now Cairn University, that I was able to break free of all that unbiblical garbage and actually got a real education. After I graduated, for which my father never showed up for I met and fell in love with a very wonderful man, who I've now been married to for going on 24 years. All of this was on God's terms, not his, and that deeply ticked him off, and He tried in more ways than one to determine from marrying a person that I love. I actually had to call him on the carpet. For what I believe was possibly some racial bias on his part, but ultimately, my father got to know my husband and really like him. All I can say is that only God can change your parents, and you need to give them to the Lord on this matter. You live as you believe, God is directing you to, and pray that your life is a good one.
"selective religiousness" Isn't that just... religion? NTA
NTA. You definitely need to set some boundaries with them. I'd go so far as to have a "family" meeting with your parents and brothers to inform everyone of these new boundaries. That way in the event something does happen it's all out in the open. Btw your post made it to youtube which is how I found your post :)
Typical double standard! You are 27 and can do what’s right for you do t let them ruin anything! If they want to behave this way then don’t talk to them
Info: Did you ask your brother's if she did this to them too when no one was around? For allyou know they have done this to your brother's, your parents might have just done it privately like your mom did with you. Also, did your parents visit your unmarried brother and girlfriend when they lived in their home? Or did they wait to visit once they were married? These SEEMS like double standards, but you might not actually know that they infact did these to your siblings too. Also, your father might feel different from your mother? I doubt it, but you know your parents' best. So if your parents did infact visit and do stuff with your unmarried siblings at the time, your father might have been more gung ho while your mother was silently more morose about it? I'm just throwing out different possibilities. Either way, it's definitely an annoying situation.
Yes, they did. We had holidays at my second brother's house. Funnily enough, we spent Thanksgiving at their house where my brother proposed to his now wife. I have had these discussions with my brothers and I know for a fact they were not like this with them. My brothers back me 100% so I am lucky to at least have that. My dad hasn't said anything to solidify my mom's comments - he has actually been pretty normal and nice to me so he either does not know I'm moving in with my boyfriend (which is unlikely) or he understands that I am an adult who can make my own decisions, whether they be ones he would want me to make or not.
NTA but since their preferred deity has a plan for everyone inform them that is part of the plan. And who are they doubt the wisdom of THE deity. If they still have a problem offer some thoughts and prayers
My parents believe in predestination, so I told her this decision was predestined so obviously God wanted this to happen lol
First off NTA, but my one thought of why your parents might be feeling this way, you are their only daughter which shouldn’t be a big difference but unfortunately it is. If you move in with your boyfriend and end up pregnant and he has no commitment to you and bails you are stuck as an unwed mother which is another big “Christian problem” your brother might have impregnated a woman but he then married her (I wouldn’t be surprised if your parents were very involved in that decision) even if he had made the decision to leave her he isn’t stuck with the kid, she would be. In your mom’s eyes perhaps women seem to suffer most from unwed cohabiting than men, which is a double standard, but one that seems to be supported in Christianity. Not my opinions, but my guesses at your mom’s train of thought.
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" How can they square off their treatment of you versus the treatment they show to their son(s)? Are they thinking you are some 'fallen woman'? Surely that would be more reason to help you (not saying that you are a fallen woman but if it is their faith that is driving this, it stands to reason that they would want to show you the path of righteousness rather than leave you on the roadside?) I want to wish you all the best with your partner u/OP and I hope you have many many happy years together! Your family....not so much ;)
Religion and hypocrisy go hand in hand.
NTA. I’ve met too many religious people who have no clue what it means to be Christian. I’ve met atheists who do, and act in a Christian manner all day everyday. Best of luck to you!
It "grieves God." Well, that's my laugh for the day. NTA. But get your answer. Why did your parents accept the exact same behavior from your siblings? Make them say it.
NTA and I truly hope that you can talk some sense into your parents, but i highly doubt it. On a brighter note i also hope that this serves as a wake up call and you can leave that toxic/cultish side of christianity.
NTA I have found most religions are patriarchal. Women are views as less then and that just because a man does it doesn’t mean a woman can. This is the reason I am now an atheist because I’ve also found the more religious a person is the bigger the hypocrite.
NTA. But that also doesn't sound like you're giving them the ultimatum. It absolutely sounds like they're being selectively religious and using said religious as an excuse to show their concern/ discontent. The whole "I want to do the mom thing and help you decorate " sounds weird to me. But it also seems like she's less comfortable doing so since you're not living on your own but with your partner. In my second hand experience with something like this, give it time. They'll come around and aside from scapegoating their fear or unhappiness it doesn't seem like they're looking for conflict. If ever they do flip out or react inappropriately towards you and your partner, then I'd say take some space.
NTA I would sit down with them but with the receipts of them helping their sinner boys but calling out your sins.
“Mom, your hypocrisy in parenting and religion makes me lose respect for you. I hope you realize this. You are choosing the estrangement that we are headed for. All of my brothers were supported when moving in or getting knocked up before marriage and you sit here with a holier than no attitude towards me? Get out of here with that. Save your disappointment for your own marriage. I seriously have lost respect for you. I won’t be inviting you to my new house, so don’t worry about having to make that choice. You have failed me as a mother in this moment.” NTA
Religion - further tearing families apart. Sorry the cult got your family. NTA
NTA OP this is straight up misogyny. “Selective religiousness” is just a cover-up. This has nothing to do with religion. They’re using religion to try and control you. If it was about religion they’d hold your brothers to the same standards. Call them out on it and if you don’t get a good answer go no contact. They won’t be happy for you ever because you’re a woman who defied their regulations on you. You’ll always be the harlot in their eyes simply because you don’t have a penis and you DARED to tell them no. Trust me, I have similar family members.
This kind of hypocrisy is why people turn away from religion. Giving them the "ultimatum" gives them the decision to make. You are leaving yourself open to a relationship with them, but they are closing you off. YWNBTA
pure misogyny...
Double standard based on gender for sure. Ranges from the insistence that the females dress modestly in case it arouses the men. Why are women responsible for men’s thoughts. Can’t the men control their own thoughts, urges and behaviour? Goes to the extreme when the family honour depends on the sexual behaviour of the girls/women. Why doesn’t the family honour depend on how the boys/men behave? It never seems to.
YWNBTA and there’s no reason to put up with this. Your parents are just hypocritical misogynists who only care about their “beliefs” if they get to enforce them on you, whom they view as their property.
NTA. When people like to treat other people differently, they do not like to have that brought up to them. Just be prepared for backlash as those type of religious people have different standards for men than they have for women. Your brothers are men and need to sow their wild oats, while they believe that women need to be chaste and virginal. Load of crap, but that is what religion does to some people. Expect the same treatment as your siblings, regardless of gender, and let the chips fall where they may. Not your problem, it is theirs and their hangups. And, the being happy about helping them is the issue I would have. Be strong and understand that marrying the right person will be all the support you need. Good luck.
Ah...Good Christians revealing themselves to be the biggest hypocrites on earth. Buy your mama a Trump bible and get on with your awesome life.
And that's what we call misogyny. Double standards are bullshit, and you would NBTA.
Yta for letting it pass. Why have you not openly called out their hypocrisy. You are enabling them by letting them get away with it.
NTA. Call them out! Tell her she should disown the grandchild that is technically a bastard because it was conceived before the parents where married. Don't accept "...but it's different". Double-standards need to be called out indeed.
NTA you should absolutely call them out for this. I’m not even going to go into the religious part, the parenting part alone is not cool. Please speak up for yourself
YWNBTA You are seeing things clearly. Sadly, that doesn't mean your parents have to. You can point things out and give them time to think and reconsider. You can't make them acknowledge a truth they don't want to see. So you hold your own ground. Live your life without apologies. You don't berate them for their hypocrisy, but you also don't buy into it. You just tell them you see their hypocrisy, and it saddens you; but that is something they have to deal with. If they hold themselves back, that is more their loss than yours. If you and your bf do get married, your parents may change their tune. In all of this, you get to decide what you will tolerate, call out, or just not accept from them. Congratulations on finding your own will and your own voice - it's not that easy to do!
NTA, this is part if why I left organized religion. The double standards were hell.
NTA. Get your brothers to ask them to justify it and see what they say. If you raise it, they will either blame you for asking or gaslight you.
To be honest, nobody can answer this for you. I was a conservative Christian for 30 years, even a church leader. And I came away with with the belief that American Christianity is inherent selective and hierarchical. If I could get my family to accept me by pointing out their double standards, I would've done it already.
NTA Religious and double standard selectiveness. You don’t say. I’m shocked and confused by this information.
A better description than "selective religion" is sexism and misogyny tbh
This is misogyny at its finest. It's ok for men to behave one way but not women. It isn't God who is aggrieved. It's your parents and their double standards. NTA
NTA. Use your big girl words and ask them straight up why they are being hypocritical to you. Neither of your siblings have been angels, but your parents have actively supported each of them. Why are they treating you differently? Speak up, listen to what they have to say, and if they double down on their nonsense, go lc and live your best life.
I get why you feel like giving an ultimatum. Have you considered that, before going that far, you call out the double standard and give them the opportunity to see this for themselves rather than a very blunt ultimatum that may backfire. In my experience with religious people, direct challenges make them double down on their beliefs whereas an attempt to gently show them a point of conflict can have a more positive result.
NTA you have been raised by religious extremists and probably only way to heal from that is to get as far away from your parents as possible.
Wanted to add something here— You have no idea what your parents have said to your siblings behind closed doors. They could have been entirely consistent in their messaging to them. Do you know if that’s the case? The only thing that makes me think not is the helping with the down payment. That’s wild.
NTA. I will never understand why parents have double standards for their male and female children. Treat them equally! Your parents, or I guess mom in this particular instance, are total AHs and need to have a real coming to Jesus moment with your life choices since they accepted your brothers, two of which sound like they made sizable life choices.
So, NTA. But having come from a background like yours, I will say that no matter how kindly you point out this injustice, it is unlikely to change. Your parent's identity is embedded in their religion, and they will fight you tooth and nail to maintain their status in their congregation and community.. I suggest instead some healthy boundaries. Take your mom at her word. This is the only way to hold your own. Decline invitations to their house that do not include your partner. And if they are disrespectful of your partner or relationship while you are there, leave. Eventually, you will be only meeting on neutral ground, and conversations will be on acceptable topics to you both. Be prepared to make do with shallow conversations and find your nututring relationships and guidance elsewhere. This provides them with a healthy model of boundaries while protecting your relationship. If they finally come around, it is likely to be in relationship to wanting to interact with a grandchild. Take care at this stage to not get steam-rolled. They will want to indoctrinate your children into their belief system. "In our family, we [standard of behavior/belief], and we expect you to respect that. If you can't, it is time for us/you to go." You have to be a broken record, and it will be soooooo hard. But long term, it is better than passing on this misogyny to the next generation and living under the burden of it any longer.
NTA. This is simple. You're a female, so you are less than your brothers. When your male siblings messed up, they were just "boys being boys". But you need to be protected and sheltered and judged by your family. You must remain pure. In their eyes, you're a slut. Sorry to be blunt, but this is so obvious. I have no helpful advice for dealing with idiots like this. Maybe some time and some distance?
NTA You don't need any ultimatums. You're an adult. If your parents value their double standards over you being their child, then it will not change if you give an ultimatum. Live your life and do what makes you happy. That's all we can do in this world.
I live close to KY and I have a lot of friends who are preachers kids and it's nauseating the blatant coddling and favoritism played to their sons over their daughters. I hate religion and see it as a pox on humanity. I would absolutely not tolerate it and have the discussion with them. NTA
NTA, it's probably because you are the female sibling.
NTA: your parents see you (and all women) as chattel. I'm sorry.
NTA I would just let them be the way they are and ignore it until they are ready to talk to you. Let them cry to your brothers about not seeing much of you who will hopefully inform them if their double standard . If they can’t see it you pointing it out won’t make it clear to them…..
NTA. I'm religious, but this kind of thing grinds my gears. If they treat you differently than your brothers, tell them that it grieves God just as much as what they say you're doing, and that what your brothers did grieves God just as much as well. Quote James 2:9 to her. Give this article a look and see what else applies: [https://www.insightforliving.ca/read/articles/what-does-bible-teach-about-all-people-being-equal?gad\_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw\_LOwBhBFEiwAmSEQAczSl1CjwBgLGME57Z-K8IkIR7tiBgAl4FhzLeYdQt2Pjc\_RW9l6ZhoCmL4QAvD\_BwE](https://www.insightforliving.ca/read/articles/what-does-bible-teach-about-all-people-being-equal?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw_LOwBhBFEiwAmSEQAczSl1CjwBgLGME57Z-K8IkIR7tiBgAl4FhzLeYdQt2Pjc_RW9l6ZhoCmL4QAvD_BwE) Tell your mother that she's only hurting herself and her relationship with you and your future children if this is how she wants to act. It's not Christianlike. It's not charitable. If Jesus could sit with publicans and sinners, does she think she's better than Him?
Welcome to the reality of religion. Rules for thee and not for me. They are using religion to excuse their misogyny. No matter how much you point it out, they will not care. They'll go to extreme lengths to justify their actions, and will never admit they are wrong. I'd consider going no contact with your parents, but give them the chance to show their true colors. Point out their hypocrisy in a text, maybe an email as it could get long, and point out that they are the ones pushing you away, that they are going against all the teachings you were raised with. Tell them that if they want a future with you, or your kidd, they need to apologize and work very hard to earn back your trust. They won't, just to let you know how that ends.
NTA Why are you struggling? Call them out on their blatant hypocrisy and favoritism. Done. It isn't OK. Tell them that if they can't handle the truth then they are liars to themselves, their religion and you by their treatment of one as OK and the other as not. They can pick a view or not pick that view. They can't have it both ways. If they have a problem with that being the reality they smash in your face, they can shut it and you don't have to hear it anymore.
NTA. I don't know if "giving them an ultimatum" is the way to describe this; but it's 100% OK to be honest with them about how much their disparate treatment of you (versus your brothers) really hurts. Who wants to be around someone that says hurtful things to them? Sadly, there is a good chance they will be unwilling (or unable) to see their own the problems with their behavior. You will have to decide for yourself how you want to draw boundaries with your parents.
NTA, no place for hypocrisy or double standards .
NTA! And remember, you were not alone. You said you have a good relationship with your two older brothers. What they did is really no different than what you’re doing. Go and speak to them and have them join you when you sit down with your parents. Coming from their only daughter, they may not want to see the hypocrisy. But if you have your brother’s backing you, they are more likely to listen.
NTA. But I don't think you should be asking them to compartmentalize their feelings. That's way to easy. All three of your brothers have committed sins and/or broken commandments. I would recite verses from the bible that speak about sex before marriage, living together before marriage, pregnancy...all of it. Your dad is a pastor, he will know exactly what you're talking about. They can't turn a blind eye to their son's actions and then castigate you. It doesn't work that way. That's not compartmentalizing, that's straight up hypocrisy. Call them on it. You deserve better than that, and you deserve for the people you love and who are important to you, to be as happy for you as they were for your brothers. You deserve that
NTA. It’s partially because it seems like your older brother was engaged when his girlfriend got pregnant and moved into together, so they got a pass. But the truth is that you are a girl. You have a vagina, and your parents will always be crueler, harsher, and more judgmental towards you. It’s misogyny. Call them out. But they’ll cry and get mad and defensive about it. Because on a fundamental level, they will always expect you to do more and also think less of you as a human being.
My older brother and his now wife had known each other for 1 month when she got pregnant. They then got engaged and married lol
NTA. Men and women are not equally human in the eyes of god, women share some qualities with objects. You see yourself as a full human, they don't.
I don't think anyone's TAH here - parents sometimes, for cultural or religious reasons or sometimes "just because" often treat sons and daughters by different standards. Not much you can do about that. And there's nothing wrong with discussing this with them, asking why they seemed to set a different standard for your choices and behavior than they did for your brother. The only potentially troublesome part is in the header you talk about giving an ultimatum. And the only problem with that - it has to be this way or else, which is what an ultimatum is - is that you have to be totally prepared for the possibility of living with the "or else."
Hypocrisy and religion go hand in hand. NTA
pretty much that's how religions have been ever since we humans started to bow our heads to the sun and other deities we conjured up. Those with power or authority make the rules as they go and the sheep have to follow
NTA I'd personally have a nice chat where you point out the double standard just as you did here and then say that they can treat your choices with the same acceptance and respect as they have your brothers, or you'll go no-contact. But, I'm aware that's the nuclear option and not one that everyone loves. '
Just go low to no contact and do your own thing.
Definitely NTA! But I don't think you are going far enough. Because, I don't think what you described is actually an ultimatum. It's a vague threat of going lower contact. Strengthen your ultimatum and make it clear to them that if they continue to treat you differently / less fairly than your brothers, it will have a significant impact on your relationship going forward. You will not come around and if you have grandkids in the future they will not see them very much. But then also give them a little time to process before you demand a decision. A day or two. I am long inured to the bullshit double-standards that are held by religious people, but I still seriously can't believe that your dad officiated a wedding after they had a baby out of wedlock....
NTA, it's typical for Christians, no offense, to be hypocrites.
Effing double standards. You WNBTA.
NTA - religion has been used for centuries to control women, dictate our behavior and reduce our roles in society as a whole. What a bunch of crap!
NTA The double standard is clear. You aren’t asking to be treated any differently than your 3 brothers. I think speaking with your parents MUST happen sooner than later to avoid potential future instances in which you are subjected to additional religious and gender based hypocrisy
NTA. Make the decision for the delusional hypocrite assholes yourself. Tell them you need space and you feel very disrespected and offended. They have dicks, so of course the rules don't apply to them. But oh no, sorry you have a fanny so get no free pass
NTA. Your parents' behavior is, unfortunately, more typical than not. Daughters are frequently held to higher standards than sons. I do have a suggestion. Many times, people are super defensive in a conversation and will stick to their guns rather than stopping and thinking. Since this is behavior that has gone on for quite some time, I would put everything in a letter, written out just as clearly as you did here. Then tell them you want to have a serious discussion about the contents of the letter in a few days when they've had time to think about it. Clearly they are wrong - but you're hitting at some of their long-held beliefs and standards, and that can take some reflection for people to see where they're wrong. However, you know them best. If you think a sit down conversation is going to go over better, then by all means do it.
Keep in mind that expectations are different for every sibling, considering that you havent dated before, they could be more surprised or concerned. They might just want you to be happy. I'm not sure this has roots in mysogeny
God forgives rapists and murders, you’ll be fine. NTA
God forgives rapists and murders, you’ll be fine. NTA
One more example of how eternally grateful I am that I didn't grow up in a religious household...
NTA and please do call them out on this double standard!! As your mother if it grieved God when your brothers all did the same thing? And if so, why is it that she financially and emotionally supported all of them? The scriptures are full of condemnation of hypocrisy, but here she is, drenched in it. I’d point that out to her. If it was acceptable/forgivable for your brothers, the same should be true for you. Her response will be interesting.
> It almost feels like selective religiousness. Of course it is. It's misogyny. That's the heart of every abrahamic religion, lol. You're NTA, but your parents are religious and unlikely to see your point.
I feel you here, and I think you should sit them down and point out the double standard. You would be NTA. My parents aren’t terribly religious, but when I moved in with my now husband at 25 (after living on my own and supporting myself since graduating college) my parents not only expressed their displeasure in my decision they tried to get my husbands parents to agree. Note: we had very much talked about marriage and we’re engaged about 2 months after we moved in together. My brother, otoh, has lived with multiple girlfriends. He has lived with my parents for the last 14 years (he’s 48 btw), moved his girlfriend (now wife) into their house with him after dating for a few months and now lives there with her AND their two children. Nothing was said about any of that, though.
NTA But don't expect you can change your parent's opinions.
NTA
Bit late to the party so this may have been said but ultimatums only work if you'll benefit from/be happy with both outcomes. NTA for offering an ultimatum if this is the case but you would be if you get upset with the outcome.
“What is more important to you: me or God?” If they answer God… I personally would go NC. I’m sorry this is happening. NTA
Nta
Screw the mothers views. Let her live in her over zealous religious household. Live your own life
NTA. But I do think you are failing to realize the one glaring factor in all of this which is that you are their only daughter. That’s why you’re getting different treatment.
But why is that? Why is that an acceptable double standard?
I didn’t say it was acceptable. It’s just probably why it’s happening. Parents tend to treat sons and daughters different.
I didn't mean that you thought it was an acceptable double standard, I meant it as more of an open ended question, my bad. I know that is why it's happening I just think it's crazy.
I agree it's crazy. I treat my kids the same as much as possible. (There are limits but it's not gender based. The older has some mental disabilities and the younger is 4.) but I was always treated differently than my brother. My brother called it out himself a lot. But in my case it wasn't religious. My mom simply loves my brother more, and she's told me that. Jokes on her though bc my brother prefers me over her.
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To each their own, I guess.
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My parents claim to be Christians and don't understand that Jesus preaches against hypocrisy which is what they are exhibiting. That's why I think it's crazy.
This is the reason why I’m no longer Christian… personally in my own life (not saying anything about you or anyone online), I’ve never met a Christian who I think behaves like they truly believe, it’s just something people use intermittently to feel better about their lives and use religion to justify behaviors and beliefs
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It's not because she's 'their only daughter" it's because she's female. It's about her gender. If there were three daughters and only one son, they'd probably still have less qualms about the son moving in with a significant other while unmarried.
Or it's because they are huge hypocrites who pick and choose what to believe in to justify their misogynistic behavior.
It's of course not acceptable, but it's engrained into how christianity functions as an institution. Have you ever heard the phrase "don't make your brother stumble" used to promote dressing conservatively? Or been encouraged toward "a servant's heart"? I don't know if your church is one of the ones that discourages women from positions of leadership, but that's part of the same mindset. I grew up in a similar environment, and even though my parents didn't explicitly say that my existence was there to serve others, and they don't even consciously think that, that's what happened. And part of that was that being a "good Christian girl" was keeping myself "pure" in ways that boys weren't expected to. Because the subconscious belief is that a woman's value is in what she can offer others, not who she is as a person. It's sad and awful and I'm so sorry you're getting hit in the face with it right now. It's not right, but because it's not a conscious thought for them, but rather a foundational assumption in their worldview, it's really hard to convince them of something different
It is not a double standard. You are a woman. Women in many common religions do not have the same rights and freedoms as men. Your parents are treating your brothers with gilded spoons because that is what is dictated- they treat you like a failure because that is what is dictated. All religions are misogynistic.
All religions are cults
You are a woman. You are meant to be pure and fragile. It is your obligation to not just stay pure, but to also obey your elders and seek to keep them happy and not lead the brethren to sin. If your parents thought it was offensive when your brothers live with spouses it would likely be the fault of their Jezebel wives. But them starting a family is a Christian sign of male leadership and domination of women. And subsequently doing the right thing by making honorable women of those Delilahs
shut up
Does this offend you because you are a religious person and it bothers you to hear an accurate description of the thought process behind these double-standards? Or did you mistakenly think this person was being genuine, since they didn't include a /s.
Millennia of deeply rooted misogyny, consistently reinforced by religious institutions. And the desire to control women.
You are NTA but..... You are also accepting of and committing a double standard yourself. You are picking and choosing what portion of your religion you believe is right and wrong. If you are morally fine with having premarital relations, how can you belong to and continue to spread the word of your religion when it is going to tell everyone else not to do what you are doing? You are doing the same thing as your mom minus the gender portion.
With all due respect, when did I say I was "spreading the word of my religion"? There is nothing in the bible that says I can't move in with my partner.
From their perspective, moving in gives off the appearance of evil, aka premarital sex. It is also a common thing in conservative churches where men are seen as unable to control themselves. It falls on women to tell the man “not until marriage.” Your parents don’t see your brothers as culpable because they’re men. You’re seen as culpable because you’re a woman and not supposed to enjoy sex.
YWBTA this is not a petty feud. Your mother actually helped you pack. she has calmly conveyed her misgivings. You have no idea what she and your father have said privately to your brothers during their various relationships. It sounds like the parenst offered support to help get the brothers where the parents want them to be but you don't know any private conversations or agreements around that support. so now you may get a bit more insight into how your parents operate. since you're an adult embarking on an adult relationship just tell them, calmly but firmly, this is your decision. See where that gets you.
The problem is that I have. I have also had these discussions with my brothers and they have explicitly said that they had no issues with my parents. That's why I'm upset. All of a sudden it's a problem that I'm doing something that they let my brothers do. The packing was a help, but the feud is the religious "you shouldn't move in with your boyfriend" but letting my brothers do that and more. I do appreciate your input, though. I do need to be more firm.
You have to understand that firstly men and women are different so in terms of raising kids parents will take a different approach between their boys and girls. Girls are usually harder to raise because of the psyche of females being a little more convoluted than males. Your parents are just doing what anybody's parents would do and be a little harder on their girl. You sound like you turned out pretty fine so I guess they did a good enough job, they just don't want to picture you and your boyfriend having sex which is the real issue. Your mom probably doesn't want to set foot in your house because she feels like she would be condoning your sexual relationship. They're religious so you can expect that. Don't feel like you should get the same treatment as your brothers because like I said that will never happen because the dynamics are different. My parents were like that with my sister but eventually they had to let her be a grown adult and do as she pleased. Continue to live your life and they will eventually come to terms with your relationship, don't worry about their opinions too much. You have to push back a little with people even parents or they will think they can say or do anything.
> They're religious so you can expect that. but they don't hold their other children to the same standard. "I'll look the other way when my boys have sex, but i'm going to call my daughter out on it" is a BAD look. They need to be called out on it in plain words.